paleontology

[fluid inlet]

Brachyrhinosaurus lol

[cloud dagger]

Compsolophoteryx

[fleet creek]

alright paleo chat i have an interesting question for you, whats with the discrepancy between prehistoric genuses and modern genuses?
for example, Tyrannosaurus and Tarbosaurus are both separate genuses living on separate continents, both genuses contain few species (Tarbosaurus only has one and Tyrannosaurus only recently has 2 rex and mcraensis)

now lets look at a modern genus, Crocodylus (all true crocodiles) this genus has 13-14 species in it, that vary greatly in location, from central america, africa, southeast asia and oceania. the first image is of the freshwater crocodile, and the 2nd image is of the saltwater crocodile, both are in the same genus and have different skull shapes, and live in completely different continents. is this not comparable to tarbosaurus and tyrannosaurus? is there a reason prehistoric genuses like this are so scattered rather than being grouped like modern animals? it seems strange to me

[tough parcel]

DNA evidence

[fleet creek]

oh yeah i forgot about DNA

[stiff osprey]

even without DNA evidence, the fact that we can analyze fauna from all over the world that are alive at the exact same time is a huge help when classifying genera. If you went back 1 or 2 million years, a lot of modern genera would not exist. And most of the dinosaur genera that people consider to be ''too similar'' to be their own genus are separated by longer spans of time than that

except ceratopsids but ceratopsids are stupid

[fleet creek]

that also makes a lot of sense

so its kinda like, adding an entire extra dimension to phylogeny

[light oxide]

A better apology would be Alligators and Crocodiles. They both are very similar, but they got different genus names.

The analogy you provided would be better for like Allosaurus fragilis and Allosaurus jimmadseni.

[fleet creek]

im saying why wouldnt tyranno and tarbo be in the same genus because they have skull differences just as drastic as things within a modern genus which i used crocs as an example of

[sullen cairn]

individual dinosaur species are also a lot more volatile in their phylogenetic resolution so multispecific genera often end up becoming paraphyletic

[steady rock]

nedo and tanak are both trike, right?

[compact leaf]

some genera also just last a bizarrely long time, like impala that are just cruising for 5 million years or Loxodonta for 7

[sullen cairn]

to which you could say just make each individual genus even more broad and avoid that issue but that requires a revision of most preexisting dinosaur nomenclature which nobody wants to bother with

[fleet creek]

ive never heard of nedoceratops

[compact leaf]

yeah there’s things we could theoretically do to iron it out a bit but nobody wants to because there would be a literal mountain of work to make it actually happen

[fleet creek]

Alligator mississippiensis (the species) has lived for 2.5 million years which is crazy

[sudden wind]

Taxonomy on living animals isn't the same as on long gone biological entities. As shrimple as that.

If I want to cover why aren't they ? That's another story I do not have the time to explain but basically it's just because we have a much better understanding of modern faunas than extinct ones.

[light oxide]

I mean, the Nile Crocodile and Black Caiman have been around for 11.6 million years, so. 🤷

[idle storm]

It goes beyond DNA evidence, and really this issue hinges upon the fact that genera "aren't real." I mean that in the since that there are no useful criteria for defining what is a genus and what should or should not be considered a genus. While there is debate among biologists about what exactly defines a species, we agree that they are real, observable, quantifiable entities. But general are organizational categories. They are real in the sense that they are clades, and reflect evolutionary relatedness, but there is no meaningful difference between a genus and any other kind of clade.

Becuase there is no definition of a genus, how genera are treated has grown to vary between fields. This has in part been driven by the fact that a lot of paleontological work (particularly in dinosaurs) tends to use the genus as shorthand for the species and as a bit of a de facto common name. This isn't a problem, but it is different than a lot of other fields of biology. We also tend to create more monotyic (containing only one species) genera in paleontology than in modern biology. This is because that helps to reflect some of the underlying uncertainty in the relationships of fossil organisms.

Ultimately though where to draw the line on what species should be the same or separate genera depends on the scientist working on them and their personal philosophy. That's why, for example, Gregory S. Paul tends to lump genera in his works. My read on him is that he is trying to hew closer to way that modern genera tend to be assigned. [1/2]

[2/2] I maintain an opposite view. While I recognize genera are in a sense subjective, I think they have utility in the fossil record. We have very speciose genera in the modern world, but a key aspect of that is that they all live at the same time. For that reason, I am reticent to apply the same genus to fossil taxa from different points in earth history, unless it is necessary to maintain monophyly (for example if we found a hypothetical cretaceous species of Allosaurus that was closer to *A. fragilis * than A. jimmadseni then I would be all for keeping that species in Allosaurus). But when it doesn't violate monophyly, I am in favor of erecting new genera, for the reason I outlined above that it is more up front about the uncertainty of fossil relationships.

[fluid inlet]

No one can be lazy when describing species table spoons

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/shrimple-it-can't-be-that-shrimple-it's-as-shrimple-as-that-shy-anime-shy-gif-16978468072232973955

[winter marsh]

Allotherosaurus

[spice snow]

Hairy nose lizard 💀

Hirsutirhinosaurus 🗣️🔥

[outer tusk]

yeah the meaning is less cool

[velvet burrow]

Not to mention that most genera would've likely had many species that are either not represented by the fossil record or not cannot be identifiable due to the lack of other lines of evidence

[warm saddle]

Altimucrosaurus

[small geyser]

Nychodactylteryx

[hallow spear]

stegosaurs imo

[steady rock]

Is it because it kinda just does everything? It impales you, breaks your bones and you'll most likely bleed out in under 10 seconds?

[fluid inlet]

Shunosaurus more lethal

[stiff osprey]

stegosaurs (whose thagomizers face sideways) are more lethal, a broken bone can heal but you can't un-impale yourself

[thorn grove]

Most herbivorous Dinosaur weaponry seems to have a plausible secondary purpose in either foraging or intraspecific combat and then you just have Stegosaurs

[fluid inlet]

Wonder what would hurt worse, getting Shunosaurud or getting Thagomized.

I think Shunosaurus would instantly kill me lol

[steady rock]

Atleast with Shuno you won't be bleeding out on a stegosaurs thagomizer

[native kindle]

iirc there was a study that showed shunos club wasn't all that in the strength department? would like to be fact checked on that one though

[fluid inlet]

Got the source for that ?

[native kindle]

no, i don't remember it. i remember reading it but i forget if it was proven true or not

[steady rock]

Would a smaller stegosaurids thagomizers be as lethal?

[fluid inlet]

That just depends on what it’s hitting

[native kindle]

The thagomizers themselves i doubt are any less lethal, but obviously not as much power behind them

[stiff osprey]

a lot of smaller stegosaurs have thagomizers facing upwards, which is obviously less deadly when hitting at things to the sides

[fluid inlet]

Kentrosaurus would shoulder check you and kill you

[stiff osprey]

because the predators it's aiming at are taller than it so it needs to hit down-up instead

[compact leaf]

could probably do some creative angling to shank you

[severe yew]

bruh... lol 😅

[thorn grove]

hey we respect the wall of texters around here

[idle storm]

A substantive response, but I'll own it, you got me there

[manic grail]

Most lethal dinosaur is spino because its so handsome you get jealous and dont forget it for the rest of your life

[stiff osprey]

trug

[fluid inlet]

https://x.com/nobrejuanart/status/1898917344228839916?s=46

Juan Nobre (@NobreJuanArt) on X

Homo neanderthalensis.

X · Mar 10, 2025, 2:02 AM

[hardy sentinel]

Pardon my chicken nuggets what do you mean Imperobator is an Unenlagiid?

[light osprey]

Quite astounding that the southern hemisphere Paravian could belong to the southern hemisphere Dromaeosaur clade

[warped peak]

The weird fragmentary foot best matches the weird fragmentaryfdst of Unenlagiines

[hardy sentinel]

From what people have told me, Imperobator isn't a proper Dromeosaur in the first place due to the lack of a sickle claw, plus I never seen Imperobator on size charts when showing off Unenlagiinae (also no need to be like that, give me an explanation instead of belittling me for not knowing, considering Unenlagiids are found all over the globe, not just south America)

[compact leaf]

dromaeosaurids don’t strictly have to have the sickle claw

[scenic flame]

a recent-ish paper revaluated it as an Unenlagiid

[hardy sentinel]

What's the paper?

[light osprey]

Perhaps if we read the rest the Wikipedia page https://www.ameghiniana.org.ar/index.php/ameghiniana/libraryFiles/downloadPublic/120

[fluid inlet]

Wiki fan boys still think the moon landing was real

[scenic flame]

https://www.ameghiniana.org.ar/index.php/ameghiniana/libraryFiles/downloadPublic/120

[hardy sentinel]

What's your sources for it being fake?

[scenic flame]

I think they're joking

[fluid inlet]

Seriously ?

[iron halo]

[hardy sentinel]

Kinda why I asked the question

[stiff osprey]

Pff, he believes in the moon

[tough parcel]

The image also has a (?) next to the classification, denoting its shakiness

Wikipedia would have also listed the paper and a summary in the body text of the article

[thorn grove]

Everyone knows the moon was stolen by aliens

[tough parcel]

Neil A.

Alien…

[light osprey]

Gotta source for that?

[fluid inlet]

I fear one day I might get too close to the edge… where sirspicy is at

[scenic flame]

obviously in the big gummerment place

[hardy sentinel]

Oh dang, April 2024. When I was told it wasn't a Dromeosaurid I was going off of the 2019 paper that places it as a basal paravian, this is the source I was going off of: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0195667118300120

[scenic flame]

yeah it would've been cool if it was a giant paravian or something

[stiff osprey]

If only another large paravian from a strange and unusual late cretaceous ecosystem would also go back to being a dromaeosaur

[light osprey]

Bold of you to call the Cape Lamb Member an “ecosystem”

[scenic flame]

AI generated

[light osprey]

Perhaps the humble European Velociraptorine will be embraced once more

[stiff osprey]

Is that where Imperobator is from

It has an unenlagiid, an elasmarian and a titanosaur, sounds like the average south american ecosystem to me

[light osprey]

Titanosaur is from a different part of the fm

[hardy sentinel]

I can't tell if the Dinosaur Snail emoji man is rage baiting or just ignoring facts with explainations to them

[stiff osprey]

Noo my ecosystem

[light osprey]

The last 2 taxa represented by the hit documentary pp

[thorn grove]

Haha pp

[scenic flame]

https://tenor.com/view/die-skeleton-explosion-template-gif-24689318

[marsh tapir]

@fluid inlet Do not provoke or antagonize other users. Be it via messages or message reactions. Refer to our #rules.

Any questions or concerns on this should be directed to @feral crane.

[steady rock]

what was out here hunting dace that it needed its thagomizers going up? ToT

[tough parcel]

Search up Typothorax…

I think that’s the aeteosaur name

[crystal dock]

Allosaurus, Torvosaurus, Ceratosaurus

[steady rock]

if i was dace i would be scared too, its such a dangerous and imposing predator

[crystal dock]

Lusovenator and Lourinhasaurus

[tough parcel]

I was mainly referring to the osteoderms around the cloaca

[steady rock]

oh

[tough parcel]

I love how you can even see that in the silhouette

[hardy sentinel]

Opinions on Mexidracon? (Sorry if the same image sends twice)

[steady rock]

its hideous i love it /verypositive

[warped peak]

Typothorax is so silly. There's like a 3m adult and a 5+m long one that wasn't done growing

[hardy sentinel]

This is the worst phylogenetic tree i've ever seen in my life. Why are Aves and Troodontidae sister group to each other?

[steady rock]

im not smart enough to understand what im looking at

[manic grail]

Do u guys think a pack of utahraptors could take down a rex?

[steady rock]

no

[lilac hornet]

no becaue they weren't really pack hunters to begin with iirc

[steady rock]

can i ask a ava question but they arent from the formation?

replace tarbo with tyrannosaurus mcraeensis in negment, how screwed is the formation?

[velvet burrow]

Joke's on you that one is a plant eater

[thorn grove]

how do you feel about this one then

[warped peak]

AFAIK this is actually accurate, especially with Paraves

[warm saddle]

I'd say unlikely

[hallow spear]

Wow this is very simplified, seems to be missing the Heterodont clade

[tough parcel]

The ones related to the stegosaurs…?

[manic grail]

I think 10 at least

[steady rock]

when is satori amarga and koishi bajahada

[warm saddle]

They're saltriovenator n genyodectes already

[steady rock]

can i see 🥺

did stegosaurids originate from america, asia or like other?

[thorn grove]

certainly the only issue, but yea aside from that it's pretty much correct

[warm saddle]

What is that theropod lookin thing in sauropoda

[thorn grove]

I assume Eoraptor, but I'm not totally sure

[hardy sentinel]

I'm gonna kill somebody

[zealous ravine]

Funny thing is that’s technically accurate, Troodontids are often recovered closer to aves than to dromaeosauridae

[hardy sentinel]

Would you say Troodontids and Dromeosaurids convergently evolved that body plan? Or would you assume the more basal Paravians looked Dromeosaur/Troodontid like?

[zealous ravine]

Sorta a mix, imo basal paravians prolly looked somewhat similar to stuff like microraptorines, and then dromies and troodontids took that and ran with it in their own separate ways

[warped peak]

And then Balaur in the corner is something. Possibly an Unenlagiine now too?

[stable sun]

Wait but this is literally accurate

Troodontidae and Avialae are sister to each other because the are sister to each other in analyses like Cau's

[stable sun]

That's in Herrerasauria not in sauropoda

[light osprey]

The humble Eurounenlagini, united by their serrated teeth

[stable sun]

Skeletal of the Troodontid Hesperornithoides

[plucky basin]

my reaction to that information

[halcyon cobalt]

united by their ability to eat fish and only fish* Balaur clearly filled the niche of a seagull

[lavish frigate]

This disgusts me in every feasible way. I threw up a little looking at this. My heart physically started palpitating because of prolonged exposure to this image.

[lavish frigate]

If balaur stops being a bird there’s nothing left to fight for in life

[halcyon cobalt]

this would be cool if true

[fluid inlet]

Slow like a 🐌

[drifting arch]

on most sites, they're referred to as spines

[frigid delta]

guys...
Theropods

[umbral kite]

is tarbosaur on there

[broken shale]

You should do hadrosaurs next

[umbral kite]

that look like a weird look country

[spice snow]

How accurate is this giraffatitan I made

[hardy sentinel]

How do we know that Monotremes (egg laying mammals) aren't just a surviving clade of non-mammalian synapsid?

[balmy oyster]

Not the most tbh, while the body can be stylized the head at least needs to have larger nasals

[stable sun]

Because the clade Mammalia is defined as the least inclusive clade containing monotremes and therians

[hardy sentinel]

But how do we know Monotremes are more related to therians than to something like Gorgonopsids which may have laid eggs like many other basal synapsids?

[stable sun]

Well if they were then that'd just make gorgonopsids mammals

but they have many traits shared with modern mammals that aren't present in Gorgonopsids

[hardy sentinel]

Those traits being?

[stable sun]

Idk but they exist

[hardy sentinel]

So is your argument that we call Monotremes mammals because that's what they're most similar to?

[tough parcel]

If I look at Wikipedia and it lists the reason why, I'm going to go crazy

[stable sun]

Actually no well call them mmamals because the name Mammalia is dependent on them

[hardy sentinel]

I was told to never use Wikipedia as a valid source, from school to here and any place I try to debate stuff

So I ask people here hoping someone has the right flavour of autism to answer my question

[tough parcel]

I feel like it's been said don't use Wikipedia for size information and it's actually been endorsed to use it as it will have a source nearby (if the claim was put there in good faith)

I'm going to start tweakin

[hardy sentinel]

looked it up on Wiki, 3 middle ear bones fused with the skull. I tend to use skeletal stuff rather than physical soft traits that won't be fossilized

[tough parcel]

Van Rheede (2005) concluded that the genetic evidence favors the Theria hypothesis,[47] and this hypothesis continues to be the more widely accepted one
And more!

[hardy sentinel]

Which wiki page is this? Monotreme, Mammal, Synapsid?

[tough parcel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotreme#Taxonomy

[hardy sentinel]

mammals are wild

We got (keep in mind I am using dumb descriptions here) ant mammals, reptile mammals, mammals with a built in hand bag, mammals that pay taxes, smart mammals that should pay taxes, mosasaur mammals, the list goes on (I LOVE MAMMALIAN BIODIVERSITY)

[thorn grove]

who are we asking to pay taxes

[hardy sentinel]

Orangutans

[fluid inlet]

https://x.com/haolonggood/status/1899487820663685495?s=46 man lol no lips on Haolonggood T. rex

Haolonggood Fans (@Haolonggood) on X

El rey de los dinosaurios llegará dentro de poco. Vendrá en 4 versiones (colores) y mandíbula articulada. Se que algunos lo pidieron pero no tendrá labios y los dientes quedarán expuestos, es la información que dominio hasta ahora...
👊😉
#Tyrannosaurus_rex #Haolonggood

X · Mar 11, 2025, 3:49 PM

[stiff osprey]

between lipless rex and lipless rex, pnso's clears

[outer tusk]

For theropods what are PNSO best theropods by accuracy wise

[fluid inlet]

Tyrannotitan seems real nice all the way around, suchomimus , lokiceratops, Camarasaurus.

[hybrid saddle]

Two new specimens of Conchoraptor gracilis (Theropoda, Oviraptorosauria) from the Late Cretaceous of Mongolia
https://digitallibrary.amnh.org/items/737b41aa-b4ba-4e22-93a6-48820a300530

[zealous ravine]

Probably an avialan that convergently evolved to fill a similar niche to dromies, if I had to guess

[zealous ravine]

Keep in mind this fan account has I think been wrong before, and frankly I’d still go with HLG’s even if no lips cause they at least have some sort of tissue covering the teeth and could at least pass for lipped white the mouth open

[zealous ravine]

I’d say the number one best is a tie between the two Yangchuanosaurus, with the small one being a juvi of the big one

[fluid inlet]

From the few photos I’ve seen I’ve tend to like it more too.

[zealous ravine]

Plus it’s def gonna be cheaper lol, so maybe I could afford to have it lipped

[fluid inlet]

Pnso vs Haolonggood

[stiff osprey]

skull shape of the PNSO one is a lot more accurate, which is more important to me than the lips

[fluid inlet]

Ngl Haolonggood T. rex giving me a lot of prehistoric planet T. rex vibes

[outer tusk]

Why did you add lokiceratops and camarasaurus 😭

[fluid inlet]

Well iirc pnso actually worked with the paleontologist that discovered lokiceratops to create it. You don’t find camarasaurus accurate?

[outer tusk]

Neither of these are damn theropods 😭 I asked for theropods

[fluid inlet]

Oops lol

[stiff osprey]

I have the yangchuanosaurus and allosaurus (saurophaganax), both are peak. New spinosaurus is good too

[fluid inlet]

Definitely need to buy allosaurus Anax

[steady rock]

most accurate bars?

[light osprey]

There really is no definitive presumed answer for where Balaur should place in Paraves

[balmy oyster]

The bottom right one

Ideally, one of these two skeletals would be better for it

[steady rock]

im so sad

[outer tusk]

Would you say torvo is good too?

[stiff osprey]

it is not

it's too small, lower jaw too thin, it has random lacrimal crests the real animal didn't have, it's lipless

[zealous ravine]

Iirc the HLG shown there is a prototype sculpt, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the actual one is more accurate. Regardless the weird croc teeth just puts me off Cameron unless I can get him customized, which I just can’t afford rn

[fluid inlet]

Tyrannotitan>>> glad I bought him lol

[outer tusk]

what about collecta's?

[zealous ravine]

I’m rlly hoping that instead of doing a lipped rex PNSO first does an updated, lipped Tarbo

[velvet burrow]

Isn't Balaur herbivorous?

Or a non predatory omnivore at least?

[light osprey]

Direct your attention to this excellent image of Balaur’s skull to see for yourself

[velvet burrow]

Ah yes, you can see the point where the beak attaches and a convergently evolved predentary bone

[balmy oyster]

You know what fair

[drifting arch]

Would this be considered accurate information for the species?

[short river]

Anyone know any reliable sources for paleo-accurate info? Don't particularly trust Google to be talking about the right animal ever

[manic grail]

Is water wet?

[short river]

Technically no

[fluid inlet]

It isn’t

Big Dawg

[hardy sentinel]

Jurassic park.... Seriously? I knew I hated Tim for a reason

(Camptosaurus was from the morrison, Jurassic)

He knows the amount of Vertebrae in a Tyrannosaurus's tail but he can't get the time period a popular Ornithopod lived in right?

[tough parcel]

Isn't Tim like...a child

[hardy sentinel]

Yes, but even a dinosaur obsessed child that can tell a juvenile Camptosaurus from an adult should know it's a Jurassic dinosaur, plus he MEMORIZED THE VERTEBRAE IN THE TAIL OF A TYRANNOSAUR

[tough parcel]

And your proof is?

[hardy sentinel]

Wdym?

[stiff osprey]

He's right, I was the camptosaurus

[opaque kayak]

Being smart in paleontology isn't a sin

[umbral kite]

no

[tough parcel]

Considering they are a child, it is not impossible to think they are reciting the age estimation off of a book (Campto isn't popular at all, this is a biased view based on it being in PoT)

And T. rex is T. rex

[hardy sentinel]

I know, but being dumb in common knowledge of Paleontology is

[opaque kayak]

The dude is a child, he might be more better in one part, but a child isn't gonna know abt dinosaur/pterosaur time periods

[tough parcel]

Also considering the ideas at the time, a Cretaceous assignment for Camptosaurus based on a fragment of a toe bone isn't wild

(Stegosaurus madagascarensis)

Like I don't know about you, but listening to a kid rant about dinosaurs, you'll find they get some information right and some information wrong

Especially in an age where computers weren't household at all

[hardy sentinel]

Well, also the fact that in the book they said "Natural History Museum" and the Camptosaurus displays have plaques telling them known facts

[tough parcel]

That doesn't change anything I've said

[hardy sentinel]

Worst part about this part of the book is that Alan Grant doesn't correct Tim whatsoever

[tough parcel]

Cool

[opaque kayak]

"Yo timmy, nice knowledge, kid, but as a 30 year old paleontologist, you are a mere mortal punk in studys. I've written papers, boy, and your feeble knowledge shows when you misquote a pterosaur's time period" - Alan Grant

[hardy sentinel]

He's actually in his 40s in the novels

[tough parcel]

So there's this thing called "Killing someone's interest" and you're currently suggesting ways to do that to a toddler interested in dinosaurs

[hardy sentinel]

There's a difference between killing interests and informing people about facts they got wrong. Plus he's 11 and that's whenever I was being corrected on dinosaur stuff, but look at me now. All I talk about is dinosaurs. I am even thinking of scrapbooking studies on Brontosaurus here soon

I just wish Crichton woulda done a little research on the Jurassic so Tim would be a less hateable character

[tough parcel]

I'm trying my best to like comprehend how this is such a bad thing

Especially when, as I said

(Stegosaurus madagascarensis)```

[fluid inlet]

Source

[hardy sentinel]

That's true, but can Camptosaurus not be from both periods? I am just nitpicking the book as a paleonerd and aspiring paleontologist

[fluid inlet]

Timmy was a good kid only 47 years old just a kid , but with no source I couldn’t take him serious.

[zealous ravine]

Possibly? But it’s hard to know for sure without any skull material

[hallow spear]

(S. madagascarensis is a tooth)

[tough parcel]

Evidence that was the point?

[umbral kite]

guys who would be more defensive about u touching ur baby a ceratopsian or a hadrosaur

[idle storm]

We don't really have a way of knowing that

Someone could ~maybe~ make the argument that we at least have evidence for parental care in some hadrosaurs (ie-Maisaura), and we have a similar degree of evidence for Protoceratops, but we can't really say how widespread this is in either group, or know to what degree the parents would agressively defend the nest.

[fluid inlet]

Can’t really say who would be more defensive when both would end your life for getting close

[manic grail]

Is it dry

[umbral kite]

no it cant be dry if watwr wet then dry it off

[spice snow]

I did it in class and the teacher told us to close the books, I was mostly doing it by memory, but I did practice his skull before drawing him

[fluid inlet]

Pretty good for trying to do it by memory

[spice snow]

Thanks

[hallow spear]

Evidence you’re a tooth?

[drifting condor]

What is the 2nd or 3rd most researched ceratopsians

[hardy sentinel]

Psittacosaurus at #2 and Pachyrhinosaurus at #3

[drifting condor]

2nd or 3rd most researched chasmosaurine?

[hardy sentinel]

#2 Pachyrhinosaurus #3 Styracosaurus probably

[hallow spear]

We need more reactions to this

[tacit pine]

How is he hateable for something as small as that

[thorn grove]

cuz Jurassic Park was made to be a 100% accurate representation of Dinosaurs but Tim ruined it

[hardy sentinel]

I just dislike Tim

[tacit pine]

Btw how accurate is the isles mono model? Not bashing the game just wondering

[sudden wind]

Tbf

[hardy sentinel]

Monolophosaurus? I don't think that's a well enough studied dinosaur to make that verdict aside from dental

[rancid dove]

"In February 2025, a study conducted by Louis-Philippe Bateman, a master's student at McGill University, confirmed the presence of the Megalodon in Canadian waters. By analyzing fossilized teeth discovered off the east coast of Canada, the study demonstrated that these giant sea creatures frequented more northern areas than previously thought" i mean why do scientists say that the Megalodon was similar to a lemon shark, when this species can only live in tropical waters? The same goes for the whale shark. Maybe the basking shark is a better comparison, but still, it confuses me a bit. How did he regulate his temperature if he had this type of body? What do you guys think

[drifting arch]

Truth, but spicey

[drifting arch]

Anyways, back to Terror Birds

[quasi token]

megalodon is thought to be regionally endothermic like some modern sharks (ex, great whites), which has less to do with the overall shape of the animal and more to do with it's metabolism- in meg's case, it has a high enough metabolism and is huge enough that cold waters wouldn't be much of a problem for it regardless of if it's skinny or an absolute unit

[tacit pine]

Oh ok

[outer tusk]

what?

like mono is a very complete animal

[rancid dove]

You're right, with its high metabolism and massive size, the Meg would have been able to handle cold waters, regardless of its shape, making it perfectly suited for various marine environments...

[frigid delta]

Weezer but Rex and make it six
insert Weezer music here

[umbral kite]

guys why are trex always trying put down tarbosaur it such a crime

[frigid delta]

Rex hates their own cousin unfortunately 😔

[umbral kite]

like in dinosaur king

let make a commission to stop dinoism

[fluid inlet]

I haven’t drawn in like 10 years did this in 30 mins but I was fighting for my life.(made the lower jaw way too short)

[umbral kite]

it it wasnt for the bottom jaw it would be fine

[fluid inlet]

Yeah I’m fix that later, I didn’t think it be so hard to draw a skull but it was lol

[umbral kite]

use reference

[warm saddle]

The fenestra are prob a bit too small imo, n the bottom jaw need major bulking up, but fine otherwise

[frigid delta]

Dilo or Sino?

[warm saddle]

Dilo, theres a text in top right

[outer tusk]

It should be thicker

[frigid delta]

shi i messed up

[empty socket]

we gotta go bald

[scenic flame]

Even better that both of these skeletals are so similar

[hard swift]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[reef tulip]

Oooo is Haolonggood working on a new rex?

Eofauna still reigns supreme imo, even with it's...weirdness (aside from Rebor's Kiss, but I missed that one)

[west drum]

I’m looking for a guanlong and Cryolophosaurus skeletal chat, do your work. I want a good accurate skeletal too

[scenic flame]

Sauroph?

[steady rock]

Is it true hadrosaur tails were like, Hella stiff and could hit Hella hard?

[hard swift]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[outer tusk]

Stiff yes
Hit hella hard no

[thorn grove]

I mean they were quite strong, but yea it wouldn’t have been like an anky tail or anything

[tough parcel]

It'd be decent at combat (in that it was good at knocking predators back) but that's just a consequence of being multi-ton herbivores and not that the tail was meant to be actively used in combat

Though there was a paper a while back that found injuries consistent with defensive usage and beign stepped on by other individuals

[steady rock]

Weird question but would bars tail slam be possible irl for a hadrosaur?

[scenic flame]

I'm not aware of any papers of evidence changing the reclassification

[hard swift]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[primal inlet]

That's just allosaurus anax with a different name

[hard swift]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[zealous ravine]

It’s decent but shows it’s age a bit

[tough parcel]

How? Please elaborate as to how it shows its age

[solar stag]

x

[steady rock]

Y

[sudden wind]

No

[steady rock]

Would it's tail bone shatter if it tried?

[tough parcel]

Did a rough mock-up with some labels, does this help any?

[sudden wind]

It just cannot lol

[ionic crescent]

Retro dilo body with mono head (that doesn't mean it looks bad(

[zealous ravine]

What Feilong said, the body shape is more reminiscent of old recons than the new ones, plus a little bit of Shrinkwrapping. Also crest integument is prolly not quite right based on the sinus paper but that’s kinda nitpicky

[tough parcel]

I mean with how a majority of Isle's designs are leaning, I'd assume the "old recon look" is intentional, if slightly

Just a shame they pulled a tummy tuck so badly on him bodyshaming is a crime...

[ionic crescent]

The Isle design choices are weird in general, either you have extremely accurate stuff, stylized stuff like trodon, or just JP rip-offs like cringe Omni, I mean Utahraptor

[tough parcel]

I think the raptor is the most egregious which is kinda sad cause RJ's concept looks so much better but eh, what can you do

[outer tusk]

BRO FR THE RJ REDESGIN IS SO MUCH BETTER

[ionic crescent]

The naked one but with the propatagium?

[jagged trellis]

magy
magy why

[lavish frigate]

Y’all boutta get struck down for speaking of the one who shall not be named

[compact leaf]

they went from an accurate cama with great concept art to whatever that is too

[jagged trellis]

isle magy
who isn't even out yet
is a titanic why

[tough parcel]

The one on the truck

[sudden wind]

Yeah, Camara looks so weird

[compact leaf]

and it was literally so good before

[jagged trellis]

sorry for the ping but
how much has it changed
i fear

[tough parcel]

That 2nd one was Isle concept art? Interesting

[ionic crescent]

I just typed The Isle RJ Palmer raptor lol

[scenic flame]

the newer one has a weirdly mammalian torso pinch

[scenic flame]

yeah, the older model (right) doesn't have as much of a pinch

[scenic flame]

tbf old cama was rather gracile looking in a few ways compared to irl

[snow temple]

whoever's making the models and designs has a suspicious tendency to give them mammalian features

[tacit pine]

Hm alr

[tough parcel]

What other models are you talking about

[compact leaf]

it’s really the neck that’s too gracile but it didn’t look to bad in the concept art, still infinitely better than what we have now

[snow temple]

Anky, Dryo, Magy... Dryo and Magy both have the weird shoulder hump and Anky is just a flat rhino with a tail slapped on it. Shant too. and the original bary concept had the shoulder hump too

[white matrix]

i feel like if the time were to come, i would be able to fight off a utahraptor with my bare hands. i would put the raptor into a guillotine choke and choke it out. or if i must, jump on its back and simply choke it out that way

[jagged trellis]

1v1 a kodiak bear built theropod trust

[balmy oyster]

It weighs as much as a bear. With giant sickles on its feet. You’re not doing anything.

[stiff osprey]

I'm sure someone somewhere has fought a bear bare handed and won

But it would be a one in a billion chance

[tough parcel]

Insert the Brazilian Jiu Jitzu vs grizzly bear art

[balmy oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/thisistheonedude123-bears-gif-18779976

[tacit pine]

Ig it looks fine enough

[white matrix]

humans have fought bears and won. i have a good winning chance. my cardiovascular system is peak human, i’d clear a utahraptor

[tacit pine]

🧢

A protoceratops will put u on ur knees begging for mercy buddy.

[elfin isle]

yk what hell yeah I believe you

[elfin pulsar]

Utah is a free win ong

[short river]

I'd beat a rex bare handed in a fight 100%

[elfin isle]

hell yeah u would

[balmy oyster]

Utah does NOT weigh 2 tons. At most possibly ~600 kg but I believe even that is pushing it a little.

[umbral kite]

the first one i found said it around 1100ib

[balmy oyster]

Utah is around 500 - 600, anything higher and it’s either fully inaccurate or outdated (or both most likely)

Edit: I just realized you were talking about pounds. Dinosaur weight & length measurements use KG & cm/m, not lbs & inch/ft.

[thorn grove]

tbf 2200 lbs is only about 1 ton but that's still excessive, but yea it's not realistic that any human could head on fight a polar bear unarmed and win, let alone someone under 200 lbs

[deft sigil]

Apologies for the few on topic messages that were removed while cleaning the offtopic conversations.
However, this channel is for the discussion of past and present paleontological discoveries, scientific news, and depictions of prehistoric creatures in media in relation to palaeontology. Offtopic conversations should be moved to DMs or another server entirely.
We also ask that members remain polite with each other while in conversation, refer to our #rules.
If we cannot be civil on this topic or adhere to the server rules, mutes will be handed out. Discussion can be continued without antagonizing or provoking one another.

[zinc solstice]

What were the beaks of some Vetulicolians used for? Like for Vetulicola Was it used like a biting jaw or something else?

[fluid inlet]

Any idea what aquatics were around cryolophosaurus when it was alive? Or semi aquatics

[umbral kite]

Where did it live and wat era

[lapis steeple]

Antarctica

It's literally the most iconic dinosaur from that continent

Oh and early Jurassic

Just like my boy dilophosaurus 🗿

They're actually not that distantly related

[fluid inlet]

I just looked at the formation a lot of indets lol

[ionic marsh]

Didn't they have plesiosaurs in the arctic

[drifting arch]

I really enjoy The Isle legacy models for dinosaurs, the only time I got nitpicky was with subjects such as Baryonyx because the poor thing ended up looking gangly.

[zealous ravine]

Yes but I can’t think of any Jurassic ones atm

Just checked PBDB and no Early Jurassic plesiosaurs or ichthyosaurs at the very least

Some late Jurassic Indet. forms but that’s all

[light osprey]

They at least inhabit polar water conditions in Antarctica

[hard swift]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[cloud dagger]

Wrong chat

[fluid inlet]

Looks like they fixed triceratops run, looks much more fluid now, more realistic. I know this was a conversation yall had in here from a previous day

[hard swift]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[fluid inlet]

Still the best Facebook post I ever seen

[frigid delta]

y'all don't know Giganotosaurus better than myself! 😤

[umbral kite]

u making a mod?

[drifting arch]

Omg if there’s one thing I’ll give The Isle credit for, it’s their dinosaur models, animations, and vocals are so peak.

[bitter quest]

No this is carnivore dinosaur hunter mods, except the middle which was in carnivores cityscape

[frigid delta]

no i'm just messin around with my Blender lol

[tacit pine]

Stop messing and learn smth 🥱

[frigid delta]

NOOOOOOO WHY ARE YOU LIKE THIS
i just brought Blender week ago i'm still no pro/master 😔

[umbral kite]

u should make mods for money

[tacit pine]

(Mods dont make u much and cost more than u earn)

[hallow spear]

show it from the side

[ancient crystal]

I'm pretty sure they had been using dibble's rig and/or animations for trike which would've explained the wonky run

My bigger problem is the size and position of the head.

[drifting condor]

Is suchomimus's snout more similar to a gharial or alligator

[stiff osprey]

gharial

[drifting condor]

So mostly piscivorous

[stiff osprey]

the isotopes agree

[white matrix]

ff

[tranquil quartz]

Isle Dilo is not peak

[fluid inlet]

I like it, it’s not the best but I do like it overall.

[steady rock]

we're gonna act like your gonna survive this

what would be more..damaging?
getting slapped by a deinocherius or getting stabbed by a iguanadon

how much did hatz weigh?

i still dont feel like this pycno and amarga scaling is right ( the scale model is 6' )

[fossil ingot]

Amarga is Long, and "tall' due to its Posture cause Sauropod Moment
Pycno is like 8.9m so its not that long.
Nor it is that tall

[steady rock]

so its accurate?

[fossil ingot]

Pycno next to Maip

[fossil ingot]

The Scale Bar with Black and White its 2 meters.
Freddy MIGHT be slightly undersized using game size BUT it looks good

The Scale Bar from below its Pycno's which is 1m so yeah looks alr

[lapis steeple]

I never thought I would see Freddy fazbear as the scale

[lapis steeple]

Funtime Freddy too

[fossil ingot]

Average Pycno moment

[lapis steeple]

So real.

[fossil ingot]

FT Freddy is better to use to scale overall tbh.
Its smaller than OG Freddy and Withered Freddy and is around 1.88m tall

[steady rock]

both funtime freddy and regular freddy are 6 feet, you get the 6 foot statement from the week before

[fossil ingot]

Then the Freddy Scaled Above with Amarga is wrong.
And tmk Freddy has Larger Size Statements or Comparisons

[steady rock]

more accurate pycno?

[steady rock]

how tall is he in the image then?

[fossil ingot]

The Scale Bar next to him is 2m.
His Top of the Head without the Hat reaches said Height.

[steady rock]

yeah, without the hat he would be 6 feet

[lapis steeple]

Yeah 2m is 6' 6"

[fossil ingot]

My guy.
6ft is 1.82m not 2m

[steady rock]

isnt a meter 3 feet, how is 3 + 3 not 6

[lapis steeple]

It's 3.3 feet

[fossil ingot]

Baby is the tallest Funtime.
FT Freddy is 3rd

[steady rock]

baby is 7'2

[lapis steeple]

A yard is 3 feet though

[fossil ingot]

Yes.
Tallest and Largest Funtime
By considerable Amount

Anyway, Freddy there is around 2m tall which isn't far from what he has been estimated before.
Amarga and Pycno are still good sized thl

[fossil ingot]

First one.

[lapis steeple]

Noripterus:

[manic grail]

Do you guys think path of titans sucho is accurate?

[fossil ingot]

Is not bad at all.
Needs Shorter Legs and Longer Neck tho

[hardy sentinel]

How many Dicraeosaurids are there? (the family Amargasaurus falls into) I am getting mixed answers

[crystal dock]

More than 30

[hardy sentinel]

That's Diplodocidae you're thinking of, Dicraeosauridae has less than 20, I just need to know the exact count, I am gonna be scrapbooking the entire clade

[crystal dock]

Am diplo doesn't have 30 memebers

[hardy sentinel]

forgot an o when typing the clade name: Diplodocoidea. You're probably thinking of that superfamily when you said more than 30

[manic grail]

What about the snout?

[fossil ingot]

Its alr I guess.
Looks Sucho enough

[balmy oyster]

Both are almost equally as accurate I think

[manic grail]

Is mother milk vegan

[outer tusk]

what

[manic grail]

The human milk we drink as babies

[stiff osprey]

milk is an animal product so no

[steady rock]

i wonder, when did mammals start producing milk? did synapsids or was it later?

[manic grail]

Then do u guys think a mom is kicked out from veganism if she feeds her infant her milk

[steady rock]

???

[stiff osprey]

considering that vegan moms exist i would say no

[lapis steeple]

I think milk probably arose sometime in the triassic in the cynodonts if not sooner in less mammalian therapids

I'm not claiming that is the case, just a guess.

Okay I have an actual answer now, it first evolved very early on during the Pennsylvanian/late Carboniferous approximately 310 mya

[manic grail]

Yea same. I dont think they count that

[lapis steeple]

This form of milk was very similar to the modern day platypus with it being from specialized glands and it gets "sweated" out

sweat is actually a quite rare adaptation even in mammals with the some living groups of animals that sweat are hippos, the platypus, and several ungulates like horses, elk, some deer, the great apes, some monitor lizards, and bees

My bad on the terrible grammar

W, did you know that a close relative to sinosauropteryx was discovered just this year named huadanosaurus?

It's so cute in jwe2

Arguably the best dicraeosaur

It's definitely better than brachytrachelopan

That dinosaur is so weird

I don't think we will ever be able to actually faithfully re-create any dinosaur anytime soon.

The closest things to a dinosaur we could ever make would be a genetically modified bird that was manipulated to have older dinosaurian traits

Yes, yes they did

It was their snouts

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/chicken-embryos-get-dino-snouts-thanks-biological-tinkering-180955250/

The one in the middle is dino-chicken

It's actually extremely concerning to me

I think there is a lot more that we aren't hearing about going on

I kind of want my own dino-chicken fr

Oh trust me I know how bad chickens can be

I just remembered my pfp is a chicken

I wouldn't say that for me though, cassowaries are probably the most dangerous birds to people, with their giant claw and all

I've been attacked by chickens my guy

Cassowaries are almost 200 pounds

[tough parcel]

Considering humans are predominantly a prey species that relied on fear tactics to drive off predators, this makes sense

[lapis steeple]

I went into the coop at 5 am and the big rooster jumped at me with his spurs and all.

[tough parcel]

Also I’d like to say cassowaries are opportunistic omnivores iirc (or a specific subspecies)

[lapis steeple]

I grabbed him by the neck and threw him, he was wise because he stopped.

I am a human, larger than 99% of all other animals, I am over 100 pounds, making me megafaunal.

If he didn't stop there i would have had to start throwing punches

Steel toe timberlands fr

I think you are drastically underestimating your physical capabilities

[tough parcel]

I regret mentioning that because that’s such a wrong idea

[lapis steeple]

But chickens will gladly eat mice, and fight big rats and 5 foot ratsnakes

Chickens hate snakes

[tough parcel]

Opportunistic omnivory is slightly different from “My environment is not providing me with the correct nutrients and I will explode if I do not obtain these”

[snow temple]

Imagine if CHICKENS of all birds went on to dominate if humans suddenly went extinct. Imagine if chickens conveniently became modern, Phorushacid equivalents

[tough parcel]

If your cow, horse, deer, etc start chowing on small animals, you should make sure their feed is up to standards

[lapis steeple]

Bro who be having a deer as a pet

[snow temple]

bored white dudes in the country

[lapis steeple]

I'm sorry for offending you

[tough parcel]

Also I suspect the actually active predatory birds would do so

Wild chickens are content in being herbivores

[lapis steeple]

I was just joking

[snow temple]

I fully agree with this, but imagine if common poultry took the role instead. It'd be hell with how aggressive they can be

[tough parcel]

Would you joke if this killer monster were standing in front of you?

[lapis steeple]

I feel like they would be eradicated by just a few coyotes though

[snow temple]

Praying to whatever god's out there that they get boxed by a mildly irritable doe

[lapis steeple]

Bro is helpless

Gonna get eaten by the nearest bullfrog

[snow temple]

Nah, he's getting packed up by a ratsnake

[lapis steeple]

Nah a garter snake

[tough parcel]

I will say, not related except tangentially, that people seem to label herbivores as more dangerous cause bla bla “Bison hurt more people than bears” and then forgetting tourists walking up to bison herds are so incredibly commonplace, the forest service has to make regular reminders

[snow temple]

I was genuinely gonna say this but changed my mind

Don't tell this guy about beelzebufo

[lapis steeple]

Cooked

[snow temple]

barbecued, even

[lapis steeple]

Pray for mans

[snow temple]

prayers won't save em ☠️

[lapis steeple]

Why is "sauteed" spelled like that though

Sawtayed ahh

[snow temple]

that's the stupidest word ever. I thought it was sauted, but now it looks wrong in text.

[lapis steeple]

Chauffeur 💀

Stupid ahh fancy words

[snow temple]

entrepreneur ☠️ those who take the road of colossi --------->

[lapis steeple]

I ain't reading allat

[balmy oyster]

https://xbsky.app/profile/paleojim.bsky.social/post/3lkbw7jfwbs2b

[lapis steeple]

Just write a book bro

[balmy oyster]

I read that in 8 seconds I think this a skill issue?

[lapis steeple]

Para my beloved

[tough parcel]

“The prey animal will run or kill you if it thinks you’re a threat”

This is a diagnostic trait of being alive, not a large herbivore trait which is why every time it’s brought up, I sigh

[lapis steeple]

I was joking bro

[snow temple]

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!

[lapis steeple]

No

I do not want to fight with anyone

[balmy oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-nose-butterfly-dog-puppy-peaceful-gif-14700589898488542320

[snow temple]

Dino apparently... (SHAAAAAAME!)

[lapis steeple]

Me fr

[snow temple]

*Horse bird

[lapis steeple]

Slanderous words

[tough parcel]

We have physical, irrefutable proof they honked, dw

[balmy oyster]

New para gonna go lit (top in the red background is the “kaiparowits para”, bottom in blue background is I believe an already named species)

[snow temple]

oh for sure. I imagine they'd be obnoxiously loud and frequent vocalizers to show off the fact they can AFFORD to give themselves away to predators. reverse psychology type ish. Like, "HEY I'M HERE!!! SO EAT ME IF YOU DARE!!!"

[balmy oyster]

I feel like they would more so clack their beaks together & maybe make more throaty grunts

[stiff osprey]

Not only that, but people forget that a major reason why megafaunal herbivores kill more people per year than megafaunal carnivores is because there are at least 10 times more herbivores out there than carnivores

[balmy oyster]

And also people are oblivious for some reason when going up to the 1+ ton clearly uncomfortable herbivore

[stiff osprey]

If there were as many bears in the US as there are deer, i assure you the bear death toll would be much higher

[tough parcel]

Let’s test it

[lapis steeple]

DO NOT PET THE WILD BISON IT WILL FLATTEN YOU LIKE A PANCAKE

[stiff osprey]

Real

Unfortunately bears are omnivorous so they will eventually switch sides and fight with the herbivores against us

[tough parcel]

The Knockout of the animal kingdom…?

[snow temple]

what if we tamed invertebrates and made a hagfish//lamprey hybrid and gave them horse anatomy to make them extremely fast and good long-distance runners

[balmy oyster]

Didn’t we try this with moose in the past

[tough parcel]

Moose rhymes with musth and-

[lapis steeple]

Can we talk about paleontology and not about how we are going to be banned from every zoo in the country

[tough parcel]

I think this art is cool

[lapis steeple]

I'm not sad ant

I'm disappointed in you guys

Do you think he'll ever get that dragonfly?

[tough parcel]

Spoobus

[glad nimbus]

im gonna get you

[balmy oyster]

Yeah basically

Sooner or later it’ll be “he’ll never have (multiple distinct species within its genus)”

[stiff osprey]

not to be an ''oh spinosaurus is always changing haha'' enjoyer but it is kinda funny in hindsight that we all assumed spino's broken caudal spines were complete just because every other theropod ever has short caudal spines so why would spino be diffe-

[tough parcel]

Evidence the broken is sail is not…?

[stiff osprey]

the sail was actually substantially taller

[balmy oyster]

Holotype has complete dorsal spines, but neotype’s are pretty fragmented

[stiff osprey]

We'll have to kill you if you post that sorry

[balmy oyster]

Yes but we came to the conclusion that it’s stupid (doesn’t have similar structure like that of bisons + archosaurs have different methods of muscle/fat storage)

[lapis steeple]

Don't do it we will hang you at the gallows

[snow temple]

...

[lapis steeple]

Noooooooooo!!!!!!

[balmy oyster]

You will be executed shortly

[snow temple]

why?

[lapis steeple]

Get it out! get it out! Ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

[tough parcel]

We have indication that Spinosaurus’ sail would barely be covered in muscle

As well as the fact the spines would break before permanent damage to the spinal cord is done

[snow temple]

Imagine if dinosaurs could secretly shed certain sections of bone and/or their tails... and we had no way to tell

[steady rock]

boost so someone can answer my question

[snow temple]

this exactly. I'd love to see evidence of some silly theropod dragging its tail as a weird behavior

[balmy oyster]

This is exactly what I thought, I don’t believe the spinal cord will immediately no longer function if the neural spine is broken, as long as the centrum and most likely base of neural spines are unaffected

[tough parcel]

There’s a trackway attributed to a spinosaur with indication of a slight tail drag

[balmy oyster]

There is? If possible, could we see?

[snow temple]

IMAGINE if there's a literal fossil coprolite that's a poopstain getting dragged by a spino's tail 😭

okay speaking of letting it drag... Do y'all know john conway's... questionable stego recon? Now hear me out...

[tough parcel]

@stiff osprey Please track down the trackway with the spinosaur tail drag, I’ll reward you with uh

A puppy

[snow temple]

I will not be elaborating, but imagine elephantine stego for a minute 😭

[balmy oyster]

We already know stegosaurus was not the chillest of dinosaurs, we have a allo specimen where I think the pelvis(?) has marks of where a stego thagomizer hit

Fr tried to end not only its life but any chance of future offspring

[snow temple]

yeah. imagine if the steg did it on purpose 💀

Wanna hang them publicly or smth sherlock????? We can't cancel minerals conveniently shaped like bones yk

[lapis steeple]

It's crazy how fast our understanding of dinosaurs is changing

Like just a couple years ago every depiction of a theropod dinosaur had no lips.

[snow temple]

imagine if dinosaurs exploded whenever they saw dangerous things and ASSUMED they were in danger and thats why we have no complete titanosaurs

good luck with that Mr. Peabody

[lapis steeple]

And that's what the air sacs are really for

[snow temple]

nah. exploding somphospondyli

kaimere ceratopsians...

[lapis steeple]

🗣️KAIMERE MENTIONED 🗿🗿🗿

[snow temple]

GRAAAHHHHHH APPLE BOTTOM GEESE!!! APPLE BOTTOM GEESE WITH THE BILL KNOBS!!!

[lapis steeple]

Calm down bro

[snow temple]

aight bro...

[glad nimbus]

stop face revealing me 😞

[lapis steeple]

Plump

[snow temple]

fat incel

[lapis steeple]

Don't say such things about leaellynasaura

[glad nimbus]

leaellynasaura hate will not be tolerated

[lapis steeple]

Ever

[snow temple]

and I say to that... POLAR ALLOSAUR FODDER!

[glad nimbus]

my son right there. trust me i was there

[lapis steeple]

Context please

[neon flower]

Fat incel is wild work

[snow temple]

well??? I don't see any mates in that picture

[neon flower]

Muesem, water Dino. Context clues . I assume he might’ve (stay with me) went to the museum

[neon flower]

Fair enough

[lapis steeple]

No really?

[balmy oyster]

That sounds cool, maybe possible too considering how arm-y iguanadon is?

[neon flower]

I know !

[lapis steeple]

Paleoman is just watching us fr

[idle storm]

Just chiming in to say this isn't something that needs to worry people. There are very strict ethical standards that govern this kind of embryological research, inlcuding mandates that these animals aren't raised to hatching. There aren't any labs actually working on creating a living "dino-chicken." This particular study was done to try to determine the genetic underpinnings of the evolution of the bird beak. They experimentally inhibited some gene expression, and low and behold the beak developed more similarly to a typical reptile snout. But the goal of the study (and really of any of these developmental studies) is to understand the mechanisms of evolution, not to engineer new kinds of animals.

[idle storm]

Had to check a source in the middle of typing lol

[neon flower]

Real 😭

[neon flower]

Lmfao

[lapis steeple]

That's what someone who knows what the public isn't being told would say...

[vocal breach]

Some bro in an Ig comment section said Maip was 5 tons and worked in packs

[lapis steeple]

Yeah just don't

[honest estuary]

do you guys think dinosaurs witnessed eclipses and stopped to look and watch?

[halcyon cobalt]

that would be friggin adorbs

[topaz shell]

Blindness

[rose kite]

she a baddie

[manic grail]

https://tenor.com/view/transformers-sentinel-optimus-prime-optimus-prime-gif-26529362

[frigid delta]

wait until you find out...
Baryonyx

[warm saddle]

question, what was the main prey item for Zhucengtyrannus?

[outer tusk]

anything

[jagged trellis]

food lion workers

[drifting arch]

Oh sweet mother of all that is good and just, WHAT IS THAT

WHAT IS THAT, WHAT...WHY

[steady rock]

Ado sauropods, sino's , smaller and or injured shants

[manic grail]

https://tenor.com/view/sentinel-prime-megatron-transformers-one-megatron-kills-sentinel-transformers-death-gif-1724581799202972900

[steady rock]

would hatz be able to open a sauropod corpse by itself?

[manic grail]

https://youtube.com/shorts/itKW5zREOKY?si=Qb5vurmDU7UGrT-0

Worst size comparison

[frigid delta]

why bro using figurine instead of human??? 😭😭😭

[manic grail]

Thats the least concerning thing bro does

[steady rock]

Boost

[lapis steeple]

Yeah Hatzegopteryx probably could, it had many adaptations that made its jaws much more powerful than those of other azhdarchids, it's head was much wider and robust giving strong jaw muscles, it's skeletal anatomy was also different because it had a much thicker, shorter neck than other azhdarchids and it also had thick spongy bone in its neck instead of being hollow ones, so yes hatzegopteryx is well suited for the job.

[tough parcel]

Its bones aren't unique in terms of composition

[lapis steeple]

And that's before mentioning the niche hatzegopteryx filled, hatzegopteryx preyed on miniature titanosaurus like paludititan and Hadrosaurus like telmatosaurus that lived on hateg island, Romania.

[tough parcel]

I'd assume it'd be difficult if the sauropod were of any notable size due to the azhdarchid beak not being suited to ripping/tearing motions

[lapis steeple]

It probably could do downwards jabbing motions

But it really depends on how big the carcass is

[tough parcel]

The sauropods weren't exactly small compared to Hatz

Remember pterosaurs are on stilts

[outer tusk]

Also with pterosaurs mainly not having strong enough muscle attachment to produce high forces it would be like that Hatz like many would stuck to more small hunting game style

[lapis steeple]

You're telling me that that beak couldn't function like that of a Marabou stork for scavenging?

[outer tusk]

Maybe if we have any indication of a skull from this thing 😭

[tough parcel]

Marabou stork cannot open corpses themselves unless it has decayed enough or is small enough last I checked

[outer tusk]

^ also this

[lapis steeple]

Ehh I'm not buying it

[outer tusk]

You're not buying that maybe this taxon that only has 2 exact taxon assigned to it maybe isn't some kind of apex predator and more just a opportunistic feeder that also just got big enough to illusion such a role

[lapis steeple]

Opportunistic scavenger

What else is going to eat the corpses

[outer tusk]

Other scavengers

[tough parcel]

The abelisaur

[outer tusk]

The 13 meter long abelisaur

[lapis steeple]

Why is there so many unnamed abelisaurids

[hardy sentinel]

According to the skull shape, it can be assumed it was an armored prey hunter like that of the North American Tyrannosaurus

adult invendiuals most likely hunted Sinoceratops and Shantungosaurus, and maybe some Zhuchengtitans along the way if they were weak enough

Juveniles most likely hunted the smaller ceratopsians (Zhuchengceratops and Ischioceratops)

[tough parcel]

Or, since it's...probably the biggest guy around, it'd eat everyone

[outer tusk]

Happens when you're so numerous

[tough parcel]

Because I think it's a tooth/teeth

[hardy sentinel]

It's funny to see how Ceratosaurians became the weird guys after the jurassic ended, went from more similar to the others to BALD

[tough parcel]

There might be a second tyrannosaur in the area, but I'm unaware if any further digs are being permitted to go to the quarry

[lapis steeple]

Chonky murder sausages

[outer tusk]

I found it, it was exactly larger than tyrannosaurus

It's called "Dynamodontosuchus gigantomaxium rex"

[hardy sentinel]

Are you going off the basis that there is fragmentary fossils of another Tyrannosaur there? The only other theropod found there was an Oviraptorosaur

[tough parcel]

I'm going off the basis that Holtz(?) mentioned there are remains of a secondary possibly distinct tyrannosaur in the quarry

[hardy sentinel]

Source?

[storm merlin]

Yall I won in Fortnite

[lapis steeple]

How does that relate to anything?

[tough parcel]

They mentioned it on Twitter, you find it

[hardy sentinel]

"Hey so I am arguing a point, but I don't feel like supporting my point with my own sources, find my sources for me" is kinda how it's coming off. Also twitter ain't the spot to debate dinosaurs when half the people there are fake

[tough parcel]

Yea, find it for me ty

[lapis steeple]

💀

[hardy sentinel]

I'm only gonna go off of published papers, luckily while doing that I found an interesting paper on shantungosaurus

[tough parcel]

Ew you're a published purist

[hardy sentinel]

Ew you use twitter (this is a joke)

[hardy sentinel]

I can make a claim right now that I found the biggest theropod ever and not publish it. Would you believe it based on my claims?

[bitter oasis]

Let's please keep respectful with one another. Conversation can continue without harassing or provoking each others,thank you.

[hardy sentinel]

@tough parcel you made me go to the second page of google scholar in search of your claim, I hope you're right so I am at least looking for something

[compact leaf]

there is a lot of material out there that some paleontologists have seen that isn’t published, looking purely at published material will do you no good

case in point: like half of the uk brachiosaurids

[hardy sentinel]

I understand that, but for such a huge claim that a Tyrannosaur bigger than Zhuchengtyrannus kinda needs a paper to be valid. Also, THE UK HAS BRACHIOSAURIDS?!?!

[outer tusk]

They're British so it doesn't count!

[tough parcel]

https://x.com/Dave_Hone/status/1494673925858598913

Dr Dave Hone (@Dave_Hone) on X

But the quarry has a whole bunch of other tyrannosaur material in it including more cranial material that likely belongs to another (smaller) taxon, but it means it's difficult to assign the other bits to any given taxon, ZT or the other one.

X · Feb 18, 2022, 2:03 PM

[tough parcel]

I never said that

I said it might have a second tyrannosaur in the area lmao

[outer tusk]

I mean we already Tarbosaurus and T.rex who are bigger

[compact leaf]

the uk has lots of brachiosaurids but they’re basically all insanely fragmentary or private and unpublished

[tough parcel]

Another one!
https://x.com/Dave_Hone/status/1494674436766769156

Dr Dave Hone (@Dave_Hone) on X

But a couple of those bits, and most notably this one, are huge. Here's the same photo with the scalebar duplicated and stuck across the middle of the centrum face it's it's over 25 cm. That's *huge*. It is, in fact, in the same ballpark as the *biggest* of Sue's dorsal centra.

X · Feb 18, 2022, 2:05 PM

[hardy sentinel]

Read this as "It might be the second biggest around" referring to Zhuch, I would believe you if you told me there's more than one Tyrannosaur in a given late cretaceous ecosystem

[tough parcel]

That's what I said???

[hardy sentinel]

That's the original post your first source was under

also I know, I was calling myself out and admitting my misunderstanding

[outer tusk]

What happen to reading comprehension

[tough parcel]

https://x.com/Dave_Hone/status/1494673043217850368

Entire thread

Dr Dave Hone (@Dave_Hone) on X

Since I've finally remembered to do #FossilFriday and the new @pnso_official #Zhuchengtyrannus model is getting lots of attention it's time to bring out this photo that I've sat on for like, a decade.

X · Feb 18, 2022, 1:59 PM

[hardy sentinel]

I woke up 20 minutes ago and am halfway through my morning coffee, while also debating Tyrannosaurines and looking at a cool paper about the biggest Hadrosauriforme to ever live

[outer tusk]

You didn't eat breakfast 😔

[tough parcel]

The most important part of your day...

[hardy sentinel]

I just finished my piece of sourdough toast, forgot to mention that

[hallow spear]

Eating you

[compact leaf]

rip falcon

[outer tusk]

Dilo is cool

[tough parcel]

We both know you'd hire a bigger predator to do that...

My poor Shant...

[hardy sentinel]

How do we know this is a smaller taxon and not just a juvenile Zhuch?

[hallow spear]

Hehehe

[steady rock]

What would hurt more, getting slapped by a deinocherius or getting stabbed by a iguanadon? ( you'll survive in alot of pain )

[outer tusk]

Getting slapped by both

[hardy sentinel]

Iguanodon, it's the difference between three long slashes and a poke that will impale you

Also is this Deinocheirus doing a backhand slap or a fronthand slash?

[outer tusk]

How would it do a back hand slap

[steady rock]

Is it like how you'd rather lay on 1000 nails instead of 1?

[scenic flame]

this is a terrible argument, you can still make evidence backed arguments without having to religiously stick to published papers, yes papers are generally a higher standard in term of sources but it's narrow minded to dismiss any claims solely because it's not from a paper

[hardy sentinel]

It turns it's body

@steady rock no, it's more of would you rather be slashed by three giant swords or punctured a giant railroad tie bolt

[outer tusk]

Sigmadsky is here

[scenic flame]

in fact if it were the case, all scientific papers ever are wrong, because their original information is not from a paper

[hardy sentinel]

Quick question before I need to adult for the day, why do some paleontologists disregard Concavenator having feathers despite it having quill knobs in it's bones?

[steady rock]

Theri could never because it's a fraud

[hardy sentinel]

the question was Deinocheirus, not Therizinosaurus

[light osprey]

Because the quill knobs are a subject of dispute

[steady rock]

Ik but I'm just saying theri can't do neither

[scenic flame]

the knobs are very weird for quill knobs, in that their positioning doesn't match any known knobs, on the other side though they've be far far wierder as anything else

[hardy sentinel]

Don't worry Concavenator, I believe that you could keep yourself warm with re-emerging feathers instead of doing what your larger cousins did (literally just be giants)

also, the wikipedia pages for Becklespinax and Altispinax make me sad, nothing on bros

[outer tusk]

Its Altispinax

[hardy sentinel]

nvm on this, apparently there's a "Simple english" version that cuts it down dramatically

[hardy sentinel]

did Becklespinax get killed or something?

[outer tusk]

Becklespinax is the older name and is synonymous with Altispinax

[hardy sentinel]

So if Becklespinax is the older name why didn't Altispinax just stay as that? Usually in naming stuff, organisms go with the older name if they turn out to be synonymous with that genus/species

[outer tusk]

What

[hardy sentinel]

My confusion here: You said it's Altispinax now, and if Becklespinax is the older name/genus then why is it Altispinax if they are synonymous

Like how Latenivenatrix is thought to be Stenonychosaurus because it's differences are so minimal and thought to be indevidual variation, since Stenonychosaurus got named first and it's thought Latenivenatrix is just a small indevidual, Latenivenatrix is Stenonychosaurus

If you are confused, just tell me what you think I am saying and I will clarify

[steady rock]

Did I do something wrong eith my scaling of laten and deinon?

[hardy sentinel]

"Latenivenatrix" is taller than Deinonychus. Also I think PoT goes off of Stenonychosaurus sizes

[steady rock]

Wel I'm asking where I went wrong with it? ( original skeletals)

[frigid delta]

reading suck my eyes hurt seeing texts & such 🗣️🔥

[frigid delta]

i wanted to slap its snout with my frying pan and make them unconscious from the pan

[hardy sentinel]

Skeletals look fine, it's just how you lined them up. Also try and use a size estimate based where it doesn't use an anime character, as those size estimates are comparing it to the anime character's height and not a 6' (1.8 meter) tall indevidual

[tough parcel]

What are you talking about???

There's a meter bar right there bro

[hardy sentinel]

Is the meter bar supposed to be the black one and the white one or just one of them? I'm confused here I don't usually see it set up like that

[steady rock]

Oh how did I line them up wrong? I think the meter bars are even

[hardy sentinel]

Line them up wrong as in you put "Laten" as shorter than Deinonychus

[tough parcel]

It's 50cm + 50cm (1m total)

I doubt this woman is taller than 2 meters

[hardy sentinel]

Please inform me without dumbing me down, I ask for a reason because I never see it set up like this

[steady rock]

Ooh alright, so would the meter bar scale to the bar in total ( both white and black part )

[tough parcel]

A) Stop taking everything personally, you will be much happier

B) It's deductive reasoning and since you care about sources, I provided that

[hardy sentinel]

It's just you saying "I doubt" instead of just giving me the information I did not know, no reason to seem like you're stating the obvious whenever I clearly did not know

[tough parcel]

Yup

[steady rock]

Uhm

[hardy sentinel]

What is the most accurate and up to date dino in path? I see some good contendors between Lambeo, Laten, and maybe Struthi

[frigid delta]

no

[light osprey]

The elusive Alaska Troodon is bigger

[steady rock]

I scaled the scale Bar to both bars where did I go wrong?

[tough parcel]

Alr, my turn

[light osprey]

The scale bar in the Latenivenatrix could just be wrong

[steady rock]

Oh

[hardy sentinel]

@steady rock It ain't Tyrannotitan, they say it's bigger than Rex and Spino multiple times when i'm pretty sure both outweigh it

[steady rock]

I meant design wise

So was the scale Bar wrong or did I just suck at scaling it

[tough parcel]

Probs wrong

[light osprey]

‘Probably’ - we can not yet exclude the possibility of the 5 meter Latenivenatrix

[hardy sentinel]

i'd personally go with Lambeo over Tyrannotitan. Also size has to do with design and I think Lambeo is pretty size accurate considering PoT goes off of upper estimates

[light osprey]

This filled a niche akin to the Dakotaraptor of the Hellcreekian

[steady rock]

Weird question but could trootontids use raptor prey restraint like dromeosaurids? I don't know why but I feel like it would look off if they did it for some reason

[hardy sentinel]

If they even hunted prey bigger or similar sized to them at all, they are more omnivorous and most likely spent their days eating plants and the occasional small rodent

[steady rock]

Like, when I see utah do it, it looks natural? Troodontids idk

[light osprey]

They would often use their RPR on their preferred prey; the plant

[hardy sentinel]

indeed, they step on the plant before looking down and realizing "oh wait that looks kinda yummy"

[steady rock]

https://tenor.com/view/plants-vs-zombies-gif-22476525

[hardy sentinel]

@steady rock one of these photos are of Troodontid teeth, and the others of Sauropods, which one is which

take ur guess

[steady rock]

A and b

[hardy sentinel]

first photo is troodontid teeth, second is sauropodomorph teeth

[steady rock]

I was rjght

[outer tusk]

Troodon is in fact a sauropod

[warped peak]

Prosauropod with feathers hypothesis

[hardy sentinel]

Troodontids were most likely omnivores that hunted small game and scavenged, showing the comparison so documentaries like "last day of the dinosaurs" don't happen again where a 5 pound troodontid doesn't hunt a 5 ton herbivore

[outer tusk]

Late surviving Cretaceous plateosaurid

[hardy sentinel]

Anyways, Lambeo seems pretty on par with upper estimates

[steady rock]

I thought prehistoric wildlife life wasn't reliable?

[hardy sentinel]

it's one of the only size estimates out there that aren't showing another Lambeosaurid in it's place

I guess theres this if you wanna use it?

[outer tusk]

It's too tall

[hardy sentinel]

Are those upper estimates or average? They seem close to the average

[hallow spear]

thats not how it works, we do not know the average of any Lambeosaurus

[hallow spear]

the largest Lambeosaurus are about this size, i wouldnt be surprised if they are the largest.

[scenic flame]

it isn't

[floral ivy]

Does anyone has any information about who is the largest known (Named and Valid) Ornithischia from Europe and South America

[scenic flame]

Europe's is probably Dacentrurus or Iguanodon

[floral ivy]

Alright

[hardy sentinel]

South American is Macrogryphosaurus

[floral ivy]

Alright thx

[hallow spear]

Stegosaurus or Dacentrurus for Europe

the Alcobaça Formation has remains reffered to S. ungulatus

[steady rock]

What's the top 5 most studied and understood dinosaurs in your opinion?

[balmy oyster]

Tyrannosaurus, psittacosaurus, chasmosaurine ceratopsians (minus anything triceratops related), uhhh idk what else

[steady rock]

Why not triceratops?

[balmy oyster]

Because nobody gave two cents on describing any of the postcrania for complete specimens

[outer tusk]

Because mid dinosaur

[steady rock]

What abt centro? Don't we have a bunch of those

[hardy sentinel]

Largest Ornithischians from every continent:

North America: Eotriceratops
South America: Macrogryphosaurus
Asia: Shantungosaurus
Europe: Dacentrurus
Africa: Still trying to find it
Oceania: Muttaburrasaurus (possibly)
Antartica: Antarctopelta

This is a list I put together, some are harder to find than others because google keeps thinking I am looking up theropods

[steady rock]

Eo isn't the biggest but okay

[hardy sentinel]

Edmontosaurus isn't bigger than Eotriceratops or any previous north american Ornithischian. Tell me what is the biggest north american ornithiscian if you would though

[outer tusk]

Triceratops:

[steady rock]

Trike is bigger...

[hardy sentinel]

Eotriceratops is bigger than Triceratops

[outer tusk]

☠️ this isn't pot or 2007 buddy

[steady rock]

How big is eo

[compact leaf]

it isn’t, that’s down to a scaling error stemming from eo having a proportionally large head

[steady rock]

Stego is also bigger then eo at 8 tons

[outer tusk]

Dawg am very certain it's be stated multiple times that eotrike isn't larger than trike 😭

[deft sigil]

A channel reminder, to please remain polite with each other while in conversation, refer to our #rules. If we cannot be civil on this topic, mutes will be handed out. Discussion can be continued without antagonizing or provoking one another.

[steady rock]

Eo, sino, titano and penta are the only ceratopsians that are 5 tons right?

[hardy sentinel]

Titano?

[steady rock]

I'm not including toro or trike as they go past it

Titanoceratops

[outer tusk]

Titano and Penta are much smaller than 5

[hardy sentinel]

Titano basically just looks like a Penta, what are the differences?

[steady rock]

They need to stop naming dinosaur titan if they aren't that big 🥰

[tough parcel]

Vibes based scaling

[hardy sentinel]

Honestly, they probably just name stuff Titan or cool names to get the dinosaurs studied and out quicker, why do you think Tyrannotitan, Tyrannosaurus, Zhuch and Tarbo when they were called Tyrannosaurus get published so quickly? Gotta have cool dinosaurs for them to not be sitting in fossil storage for 50+ years

[outer tusk]

You do realize 4.5 metric tonnes is massive right?

[umbral kite]

i was summoned wat are yall talking about

[hardy sentinel]

Dinosaurs

[tough parcel]

I can counter this with 99% of all other prehistoric animal names, let alone dinosaur names

[hardy sentinel]

Give me 3 examples of stuff named within a year of their initial discovery with names that don't sound cool

[tough parcel]

Also TTT is a carcharodontosaur

[hardy sentinel]

I never said it wasn't....? I was using examples of cool sounding names and most of them happened to be Tyrannosaurids because of the Tyrannosaurus effect

[tough parcel]

Also what does this even mean

[hardy sentinel]

Stuff that are given cool names tend to be published in a paper quicker or studied more often is what I am saying. It might just be coincidence but I don't think it is

[umbral kite]

why would u name it TTT

[fossil ingot]

Like 5-6t
Smaller than Trike

[hardy sentinel]

TyrannoTiTan, three T's even though I heavily disagree with it and just call it Titan like a normie

[fossil ingot]

Trike>Toro>Eo size wise.
Eo still cool tho

[outer tusk]

TyrannoTiTan

[fossil ingot]

Prob
Largest Pachyrino is Close since bud is like Lane Sized

[fossil ingot]

Largest Edmonto is like
2x the Weight of Eotriceraptops
Hell, Average Edmonto is Eo weight range

[hardy sentinel]

It's not the specimen, it's a common name some PoT players call it

[fossil ingot]

Tyrannotitan been called TTT isn't new tbf

[steady rock]

Para is also larger then eo I believe

[hardy sentinel]

3-5 tons for Para, similar size

[umbral kite]

also if tyrannotitan but is a carcharadondonton then why not call carchadontitan

[hardy sentinel]

because you'd have to apply it to every Charch

Gigacharcharodontosaurus

Concharodontosaurus

Mapuchardontosaurus

it gets boring

[outer tusk]

Tyranno in Latin means "Tyrant"

[dire latch]

Because tyrannotitan is cool

[hardy sentinel]

Tarbosaurus is burning up more than the original Spinosaurus holotype did

[umbral kite]

yea but when u hear tyrannos u think it related to tyrannouirds no also they dont change the name with ceratops and tyrannos

[outer tusk]

Maybe if you idk learn what the name means through their latin origins or actual name meaning then you wouldn't get confused

[hardy sentinel]

I had a stroke reading this

Certain words and parts of words to not belong to a genus, hence why Stegoceras is a pachycephalosaur and not a stegosaur

[dire latch]

hi

[umbral kite]

hi

[outer tusk]

It's stegoceras not stegouros

[hardy sentinel]

thank you, Wikipedia tends to not include the entire clade when showing the genera under it, that or I am blind because Pachycephalosauridae is so exapansive

also Stegodon is a neat boy, not even a dinosaur because it's an elephant. Words do not matter for naming stuff as they are descriptions half the time, just gotta know specific words

[outer tusk]

You might be blind because it's right there

[hardy sentinel]

Yeah, I found it about 30 seconds later, thought it was under Pachycephalosaurinae instead of Pachycephalosauridae (technically it's under both but I was looking under one of the sub-groups)

[scenic flame]

the very largest specimen is at 12~ tons, not to mention torosaurus and triceratops both being larger

I think there are parasaurolophus specimens that are still bigger than Eotrike's 7 tons

[outer tusk]

Closest is 6.5t

[light osprey]

Kelumapusaura is probably larger

[balmy oyster]

some stuff here is either outdated or needs re-doing

[balmy oyster]

I'd use dan folkes torosaurus tbh, it's got much better postcrania reconstruction

[scenic flame]

I remember being advised against it because of it's postcrania

[balmy oyster]

well, guevara's is even worse for that matter 😭 the skull seems pretty solid but the postcrania is just...the same generic chasmo posctrania used for every one of their chasmosaurine skeletals

also dan folkes's toro's postcrania doesn't seem all too bad, compared to other reconstructions I believe it was done at least decent

[outer tusk]

Dan folkes is the greatest to ever live!!!!!

[scenic flame]

gotcha

[terse python]

this is truely the best thing evolution has created

mesoleptos

[languid hemlock]

Wow.

[drifting condor]

Did spinosaurids catch fish with their claws or jaws?

[zealous ravine]

Unknown, but quite possibly both

[snow temple]

probably a distinct mix of both, varying across genera, most likely. Derived spinosaurs definitely used their claws over their jaws due tp their longer arms and more derived teeth. And primitive spinosaurs like Angaturama and Irritator definitely used their jaws over their claws

[balmy oyster]

And primitive spinosaurs like Angaturama and Irritator definitely used their jaws over their claws
this is based on nothing + those two aren't exactly "basal"

there's nothing that says they wouldn't also potentially use both their jaws & arms

[drifting condor]

So we have no proof if they preferred claws or jaws?

[vague sun]

i love him. it reminds me a Tegu

[balmy oyster]

To be fair this isn’t something we would figure out very easily through fossilization, but I’m certain they used a mixture of both depending on the situation or type of prey

[warped peak]

I like how every basal marine reptile looks like this

[stiff osprey]

All spinosaurids would have preferred to use their jaws for prey capture, the arms were probably employed after to help kill or dismember it, assuming it wasn't just swallowed whole

[warped peak]

The same as basically every predator ever

The extra range of a neck is huge

[drifting condor]

Did spinosaurids hunt turtles or frogs?

[stiff osprey]

i doubt the adults would hunt frogs, most mesozoic frogs are way too tiny. but turtles would probably be on the menu

[drifting condor]

Dats true

[stiff osprey]

suchomimus and teneremys, 112 mya colorized

[light osprey]

All Mesozoic frogs would be too small

[stiff osprey]

I think a spinosaur would pick up a beelb if it happened to live in the same place as one

But yes every other mesozoic frog is too small

[light osprey]

A most appetising meal for the suchomimus

[thorn grove]

a yummy snack

[opaque kayak]

Yay size comp

[umbral kite]

it looks like the fat cousin of the spino but removed

[hardy sentinel]

How do we know Barsboldia is a Saurolophine and not a Lambeosaurine based off of just its unique partial back vertebrae?

[thorn grove]

https://www.jstor.org/stable/23020183

I forgor what their reasoning was but I have the pdf downloaded to my pc so I reading it now

[balmy oyster]

From the material that we do have, the elements more closely resemble that of more derived saurolophines, like the dorsal vertebrae, caudal vertebrae & illium. Most of the time it’s placed as basal though since it’s both sorta confusing & does somewhat resemble lambeosaurines but is distinct enough to where it isn’t

[tough parcel]

Baom

[stiff osprey]

the humble leopard hunting beetles

[light osprey]

I don’t think it’s placing basal as a signal so much as there’s barely any meaningful characters to place a hadrosaur taxon with a sacrum

[balmy oyster]

That too

[sullen cairn]

Remember kids barsboldia can reasonably be an Edmontosaur because php said so but if you suggest Becky’s giant is a saurolophin you’re a mental case

[light osprey]

Barsboldia is actually a Wulagasaurini!

[hardy sentinel]

hell yeah

[fossil ingot]

Tbf Dan's Toro isn't the largest Toro so next to that Trike it would look dwarfed

[fluid inlet]

Willard victims

[snow temple]

Im thinking about proportions n stuff, mb

[hardy sentinel]

ya'll think the smaller sauropods raised their young or kept with the safe abandon young route that works?

[uneven sandal]

Quick question
Is Zygophyseter bigger than an Orca?
Or is it smaller?

[balmy oyster]

No worries, barsboldia is a weird one regardless

[scenic flame]

it's not impossible but so far we only have evidence of turtle-esc strategies

[compact leaf]

we do have basal sauropodomorphs and europasaurus with ear morphology consistent with birds that have altricial young

so they may have had a lot more investment than larger sauropods

[quasi token]

likely smaller on average as it seems to be around or under 6m from what i've found on it

[scenic flame]

oh that's interesting

[compact leaf]

definitely, it’s cool to see

[sudden wind]

smaller

based on Acrophyseter or Brygmophyseter, Zygophyseter is quite blunt in body size with a huge head. As far as we know, killer whales are capable of reaching larger sizes (largest males being like 10 meters long for 10/12 tons, though the "average" orca may be around 7.5 meters for 5 tons.

Wait, why am I saying "based on Acro and Brygmo" when Zygo is relatively complete? Guh sorry

[snow temple]

imagine if there were like... uhh... Im tryna think of something plausible hold on-

imagine a 40m ichthyosaur because of gigantism or something

[fossil ingot]

Bro is not described.
Scotty Victim

[steady rock]

#noticing

[balmy oyster]

What are you noticing

[steady rock]

you see what im noticing?

[balmy oyster]

No?

[sudden wind]

I think that there must probably be some biological reasons as to why giant marine tetrapods won't reach such sizes

[steady rock]

do you want a hint

[balmy oyster]

Sure

[steady rock]

look at the apex

[balmy oyster]

Ah that I noticed

[steady rock]

and whats the most common prey items?

[balmy oyster]

Hadrosauriformes, because Achillo is NOT taking down any grown sauropod in its respective formation

[steady rock]

but utah is in its own?

[tough parcel]

The humble Utahraptor block

[balmy oyster]

Utah lived with venenosaurus I believe, and even that was pretty large for it

[compact leaf]

maybe one of the turiasaurs but I’m not betting on it against an adult cedarosaurus

[steady rock]

is it true utahraptor was like a carch in a dromeosaurids body?

[balmy oyster]

Not a chance lol

[steady rock]

dakotaraptor is a fraud if you think abt it....

[balmy oyster]

Utah only existed because any carcha’s that lived in the cedar mountain FM went elsewhere for a little while, but the moment they returned Utah went extinct

[steady rock]

oh

[outer tusk]

Okay do little feathering of full feathering for utahraptor, I need some ideas for me

[steady rock]

i meant in the way of its build and stuff

[balmy oyster]

Utah used the good ol’ strategy of “scale up by x3” and we know this since we have a relative that’s considerably smaller in the same formation

[crystal dock]

What he said

[undone rapids]

Utah is pretty bulky for a Theropod of its size iirc, dunno how it compares to tyrannos of similar size.

[quasi token]

brygmo is even more complete with a better description so it's still a useful indicator for zygo anyway

the vetebrae sizes and skull lengths of the two seem to be pretty similiar last i remembered, zygo's likely bigger due to having two extra thoracic vetebrae and a wider skull tmk (for reference, brygmo is around 5.7m excluding the caudal fin)

acrophyseter only being skulls is the one you'd really want to reference the other two for funily enough

[stable sun]

Altispinax is the older genus name, but people thought Altispinax was about a different animal, so Becklespinax was named for what people thought was referred material, but it turned out that this is wrong and the holotype of Altispinax is what people thought was only referred to it, so Becklespinax and Altispinax turned out to be the same thing

[stable sun]

It isn't, both Torosaurus and Triceratops are larger. Also largest specimens of Edmontosaurus are larger too. And Magnapaulia is larger too.

[fluid inlet]

Source ????

[short river]

Path of Titans
||-# Joke, just to make it clear||

[drifting arch]

Well that's just terrifying.

[balmy oyster]

Path of titans is not to be trusted with accuracy 😭

[river condor]

They should rename the giga dentary specimen to O. C. Marsh

Change my mind

[hardy sentinel]

Ever consider I do go off of words that people say online without associating them with a game I know is innacurate?

[tough parcel]

If you knew it was inaccurate, why would you say it?

[balmy oyster]

Well it seems the words that people say online were also not accurate either

[hardy sentinel]

I was going off the words of a guy named "Clint's Reptiles" but after going back on his videos a while ago I realized half the stuff he was saying was BS. Didn't think size of dinosaurs would be one of them since it's a pretty set in stone thing

[tough parcel]

Ah yes, the "Acro can jump" guy 💔

[hardy sentinel]

you sure he wasn't saying it in a saterical sense in relation to a book about dinosaurs fighting? He says that stuff a lot in reference to that and it gets taken out of context

[balmy oyster]

Oh that guy

He’s super informative with all sorts of animals but dinosaurs are a tricky topic to cover, and I’m assuming when he did cover dinosaur sizes he covered back when eotrike was still scales with triceratops based on skull size

[hardy sentinel]

it was 2023, unless it was recent then idk

[tough parcel]

Considering it seems to crop up in multiple places afterward as "fact", I don't think so

[river condor]

I mean, dinosaurs arent his thing, i think the one to blame would be the paleontologist he filmed with, but then again he (clint) found the guy so it kinda of is his fault too

[balmy oyster]

Clint’s a noble and well researched man, but… “acro can jump”? What? 😭

[hardy sentinel]

He tends to reference older videos, including those book ones as a way of self promo because a little video pops up in the corner. I don't think he knows that it never works and makes him come off as uninformed

if you have the video where he says it can jump lmk

[tough parcel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGXtsAwgz7Y

[hardy sentinel]

47 minutes 😭 what part does he say it?

[tough parcel]

Idk lol, it's often cited as the source tho

[fluid inlet]

Eotriceratops the biggest ceratopsian the world has ever seen

[hardy sentinel]

anybody know the large theropod expert he's with? I dunno if they ever actually say his name, and if they did I got it at 2x speed so if it was up I didn't see it

[tough sleet]

I think his name is ethan

[scenic flame]

for those wondering, it was based on a very flawed assessment of a trackway
randomdinos btw

[velvet burrow]

Size is almost never set in stone unless there's a decent enough sampling of the animal's body and proportions

[fluid inlet]

Titan sauropods were the biggest dinosaurs to ever live.

[tough sleet]

@hardy sentinel his name is ethan harvey

[light osprey]

Perhaps the Sauropod is the one who jumped

[hardy sentinel]

Apparently nobody knows the guy except "The Jurassic Park Podcast" and some other media, I don't see reference of him anywhere else though so I don't know how reliable he actually is

[tough sleet]

Prob sum random, and im guessing he only picked him cuz he knew him

[hardy sentinel]

Also, for the Jurassic Park podcast he is labeled as a Field Paleontologist rather than what Clint claims (Large Theropod expert) which I feel would be important to mention for a Tyrannosaurus based podcast episode

[tough sleet]

Maybe clint thinks its basically the same in some ways or hes trying to give the guy credability

[hardy sentinel]

Clint has great videos, debunking stuff that goes against evolution, pet care, but his strength is DEFINITELY NOT in dinosaurs

[tough sleet]

Thats prob why he brought that guy on

[hardy sentinel]

There are some other Ethan Harveys, but I ain't finding much aside from a Machine learner and a writer, all I seem to find paleontologist wise is that Jurassic Park podcast

[jagged trellis]

Is this the trackway w the brachiosaur where it has a good time frame of no acro prints

[halcyon linden]

Ark players on their way to call any prehistoric creature a dino

[jagged trellis]

Ngl i always took it as it holding on for a brief moment while being pulled up before dropping off seeing uhhh kinda hard to do that

[tough sleet]

I mean i havent watched the video but it would seem quite reason able to get an unknown paleontologist Then someone big for just like a info video

[hardy sentinel]

Yeah, but maybe a guy with a Linkden or SOMETHING would be nice so we can actually make sure he wasn't some guy off the street paid 20 bucks to read a script and move his hands around

[tough sleet]

Ig it seems like he knows enough abt what hes talking abt until the whole jumping thing but im still watching the video so im not 100% sure tho

[river condor]

I cant stop looking at this, the way it just ragdolls

[hardy sentinel]

The video seems like basic knowledge to anyone who's studied Charcharodontosaurids for a week though, just because someone knows some stuff doesn't mean they should be viewed as an expert

[tough sleet]

Maybe hes just trying to give this guy credability

[tough parcel]

Blinks cutely

[tough sleet]

And maybe hes actually an expert just that clint doesnt/cant go into the deeper levels of paleo