paleontology

[zealous ravine]

(Ahvaytum is a basal sauropodomorph, therizinosaurs were once thought to be descended from basal sauropodomorphs like it, of course now we know it was a coelurosaur)

[tulip stream]

Hello pot allosaurus

[stable sun]

Mierasaurus and Moabosaurus

[steady rock]

I wonder why Diplodocidae's didn't make it

[fossil ingot]

10-10.8m Fragilis?
Wasn'r the Largest just 9.3m or maybe 9.7m if Random changed smth?
10.8m is Anax range tmk

[fluid inlet]

March 😒

[white matrix]

Hello everyone! I found a discussion I saw on Reddit interesting,These are estimates of Tupandactylus, I usually see estimates putting it at four meters in wingspan, but based on the complete fossil of T. Navigans, some people have said that T. imperator could have had a wingspan of up to 8 meters, and I was incredulous at this estimate.

[steady smelt]

Conc?

[outer tusk]

nah it's Altispinax

[wary heath]

I feel like there is an itchyosaur out there that was bigger than a blue whale.

[steady rock]

what does incredulous mean :((

[wraith kindle]

It means highly doubting, kind of a mix of that and disbelief.

[steady rock]

oh okay

[scenic flame]

I'm quite sure that's untrue, this is about as big as they get tmk
https://twitter.com/ddinodan/status/1545236133725872128?s=20&t=V9GIxXyomceiiiMCfyEt1w

dino dan - commission open :) (@ddinodan) on X

another pterosaur that people have just normalized is tupandactylus (and other tapejarines) like look at this thing and tell me its real you cant i bet palaeontologists fabricated it for fame and fortune
#paleoart #paleo

Twitter · Jul 8, 2022, 2:39 AM

[wraith kindle]

Oh, its just that dinodan conspiracy wierdo.

[steady rock]

is that head even areo dynamic

also, whats wrong with the dinodan dude?

[white matrix]

The neck is very short, it is likely that Taoejardeos had longer necks, like the T. navi fossil

[wraith kindle]

Isnt he mocked here?

Arrr this slowtimer

[tough parcel]

No...? 😭 What are you on about?

[amber thunder]

the guys a normal dude who does good paleoart what r u on about

[steady rock]

you mean the show dino dan?

[white matrix]

Because it seems absurd to me that a Tapejaridae pterosaur is as big as a Tropeognathus.

[wraith kindle]

Im crosswiring with someone else then, i dunno.

[tough parcel]

Assuming you mean Tapejara navigans, the neck seems fine

[white matrix]

I think it would still fly efficiently, but its lifestyle would be something like a seriema, but herbivorous rather than carnivorous

[steady rock]

what the hell is this thing

[wraith kindle]

A bird? Don’t know the species.

[white matrix]

There is no Tapejara navigans, but rather Tupandactylus navigans, and its complete fossil shows a much longer neck than we believed, and its skull was well proportioned to the body, perhaps T. Imperator was even larger, as original estimates said.

[steady rock]

its a seriema like he said

[wraith kindle]

Context goes whoosh.

[steady rock]

? anyways

what was the biggest non azdarchid flying creature?

[white matrix]

Here, I refer to this incredibly well-preserved specimen.

Tupa would be the same size, perhaps a little heavier, than Thalassodromeus, in addition to its herbivorous frugivorous habit, it would be really cool to have it in the game, its fossils are very complete.

[wraith kindle]

Forget about it.

I don’t recall the group name, but those pseudotooth birds or something? They have these toothlike extensions on their beak and some seagoing members got quite big.

[white matrix]

Pelagornis? They are very large birds, they even resemble Anhangueridae pterosaurs from the early Cretaceous.

[scenic flame]

yeah, ddinodan's is fine, you're using a different species in a lateral view with minimal soft tissue

[wraith kindle]

If you mean within the pterosaur group, I don’t know.

Tropeo gets cited as being pretty big.

@white matrix Yea, that one.

[stable sun]

AMNH 290 was 10 m and NMMNH P-26083 was 10.8 m.

update: wait NMMNH P-26083 was 11.1 m that makes it even larger

Allosaurus anax was even larger

[white matrix]

Not necessarily, the neck seems too small, maybe they were a little bigger, the head could also be more proportional to the body, like in the sister species, T. Navigans

[scenic flame]

again, you're using a reference of a different Tupan species. And even then, it's in lateral view and has minimal soft tissue, it's going to make the neck look slightly shorter

[white matrix]

I like this illustration, from PaleoHistoric, It's a little bigger than it really would be, but there's more proportionality here.

[wraith kindle]

And then theres that one pterosaur which has a bifurcated crest with most likely skin in between

[scenic flame]

once again, different perspective and different amounts of soft tissue are going to change that

[white matrix]

Some perspectives are probably wrong

[scenic flame]

no, side vs diagonal, ddinodan's Tupan isn't being view perfect from the side, and you're still not acknowledging the difference in soft tissue.
Dan's tupan is fine

[white matrix]

The soft tissue would not hide all or even half of the animal's neck, it would make it very robust, and they still need to fly, and they already have a huge crest to make that difficult. But, yes!Maybe that's right, like with macaws, but I don't know, I think they would be more slender.

[outer tusk]

Dan's Tupac is fine

[tough parcel]

Tbf, I think it's the amount of fluff he threw on it obscuring the neck attachment points along with a more vertical posture and different species, though I dunno if imperator has any neck

[outer tusk]

Hey Gualicho, my magnoasaurus looks fine?

[stiff osprey]

The 8 meter Tupandactylus estimate was made because Greg S. Paul referred a Tropeognathus specimen to Tupandactylus with no explanation, even though the two are nothing alike

[scenic flame]

I feel you are fundemetnally misunderstanding what I'm stating, the large chest and neck tuft makes the neck look shorter than it actually it, aswell as the dutcch angle you're viewing it from
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/587730181297274890/1327383419562233878/image.png?ex=6782dda4&is=67818c24&hm=fb085124aa8ea2292fb99067e3306d819a194f3ed723a2c6f7b3467fdd625a2c&

[white matrix]

No, we don't have complete fossils of the body structure of T. Imperator, we have many skulls, very beautiful hahaha, but based on the close relative, and Tapejara Wellhoferi himself, We have to take into account the proximity of the body, the plumages are preserved, but they are not so eminent

[tough parcel]

One day, I want tobe like GSP

[wraith kindle]

Dutch angle?

[scenic flame]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_(graphical)
yeah, y'know, the concept of how 3d objects look different depedning on where you view them from

[white matrix]

Yes, that's exactly what I find uncertain, because the fossil neck would be larger than the one seen, based on T. navigans. But we can't deny that it's a beautiful paleoart.

[outer tusk]

Best angle

[zealous ravine]

Tbf a Dutch angle is specifically like when the camera is tilted to the side, so that wouldn’t really apply here. It’s more of a composition technique

[scenic flame]

next you're going to tell me the concept of perspective wasn't invented by the Dutch

[sudden wind]

Probably Pteranodon, Tropeognathus or some sort of Ornithocheirean that I don't know of. Argentavis could also be a good contender as it's estimated to be between 40 and 90kg (Pelagornis is in the 30ish kg).

[wraith kindle]

Wasnt pteranodon like, average or midsized? Media often show it as giant, sometimes approaching adzharchid levels.

[alpine island]

Pteranodon was giant for a non azhdarchid tbf, even then it’s larger than a good chunk of the demon storks

[frigid delta]

do pterosaur crows?
like a slow and heavy "croak croak croak" sound?

[drifting condor]

Wait the iggy estimate of 8 tons is invalid right?

[silver canopy]

I wouldn't be surprised if some made a similar sound, but we don't really know

(Christ, two whole minutes?)

[halcyon cobalt]

Im pretty sure it’s hypothesised that competition with hadrosaurs may have done them out. diplodocids were mostly low browsers, which hadrosaurs also were tmk

[stable sun]

It is valid

[fossil ingot]

What??
Tmk last I heard it was around 5.5-6 tons at best
The 8 ton estimate wasn't reallu reliable

[stiff osprey]

Femur/humerus circumference gives 13 tonnes for the largest specimen however using better scaling methods gives 8-9 tonnes

[stable sun]

Well the largest not questionable specimen

[fluid inlet]

Shunosaurus solos

[tough parcel]

Random's about to make me go on a villain arc

I'm about to make every dinosaur experience the Spinosaurus treatment

[shrewd orchid]

lol

[stiff osprey]

There are like 20 trillion birds on earth, good luck

[outer tusk]

titanosaurian shunosaurus

[light osprey]

The scimitar bird?

[balmy oyster]

Pteranodon was quite large, though definitely not near quetz/hatz sized

[sharp kestrel]

whats that hollow part in its face for? i thought only things like rexes had them for better bite force

[wraith kindle]

Thats what i mean by mid/average

And the hole is something most diaspids have.

[balmy oyster]

You can’t win against the emu’s.

They already won a war, they can do it again.

[fluid inlet]

Shunosaurus solos your favorite dinosaur unless your favorite dinosaur is Magnapaulia , in that case we can have peace.☮️

[warped peak]

Pseudocyon after a half dozen calculations

[wary heath]

If you guys could bring back 1 mammal species back from extinction, which one would you choose.

[winter marsh]

basilosaurus

[fossil ingot]

Anax tmk is not much larger
And idk who those 2 specimens are.
I don't wanna ping Random but he can likely answer me this lmao

[small geyser]

Thylacine

[stable sun]

those sizes are from random's Allosaurus size chart

anax is 11.7 m

[warped peak]

Instant ecological catastrophe you say

[wary heath]

For some reason I still believe that they exist in papua new guinea

[winter marsh]

I shall throw 20 meter pool noodles in my giant pool

[small geyser]

Hopefully but I’m not too optimistic

[wary heath]

I think it would be worth an expedition.

[winter marsh]

WHAT

[fluid inlet]

The real king of dinosaurs

[zealous ravine]

No those are fenestrae, every archosaur has em, the one in front I believe houses the sinus

[halcyon cobalt]

slightly reduces the weight of the skull iirc. its ancestral to most vertebrates

[frigid delta]

nah not even a titanosaur sauropod like Dread can replaced Rex as the real king of dinosaurs

[thorn grove]

What does being an animal king even mean? Like I guess the apex predator is the king cuz he collects the most blood tax or something

[fluid inlet]

https://tenor.com/view/she-got-squished-squish-squished-goodbye-new-girl-gif-7334613

[tough parcel]

The real tax evaders are the raptors all along

[small geyser]

I wanna pop those throat oranges.

[winter marsh]

like rex doesnt get his ball kicked by sauropods like Alamosaurus

[halcyon cobalt]

Rex mid diffs all sauropods let’s be fr

[thorn grove]

nah I highly doubt that an argent would trample a rex

[stiff osprey]

Realistically Argent vs rex would be a stalemate, because the rex would not dare attack a fully grown Argent and the Argent has no chance of catching up to rex

[fluid inlet]

Cook unc

[halcyon cobalt]

Rex has superior baboon like intelligence smh

[thorn grove]

coelurosaurian cunning

[halcyon cobalt]

it is not ridiculous to say that

[winter marsh]

low diffs stuff up to camarasaurus lentus, above that it starts to become really bad for rex especially cuz if the rex doesnt get its face deformed by a huge whip itll just get crushed if not careful. Its not llike rex knows exactly how to fight against something it never fought before

and tbf, we have a bunch of alamosaurus bones and none of them have rex bites iirc

[thorn grove]

Like hypothetically, although it's not a carcharodontosaurid and isn't really an adapted bleeder, a rex still has giant serrated teeth and under perfect conditions could probably cause enough bleed to take down an titanosaur, but calling that fight "mid diff" for the rex when it just isn't adapted to that is being really generous to put it lightly. A healthly adult is easily strong enough to incapacitate an attacking rex in one hit.

[winter marsh]

why did it get deleted 😭

[halcyon cobalt]

what advantages to hunt large game do carcharodontosaurs even have over tyrannosaurs, other than the teeth?

[tacit pine]

Better looking ngl

[winter marsh]

the fact they actually hunted fricking sauropods

[halcyon cobalt]

so just teeth and their behaviour ( which we cant really definitively prove )

[stiff osprey]

greater jaw gape (longer skull + more flexible jaw joints) and specialized neck anatomy

although 'large game' here is being misleading as rex is also hunting large game, just not sauropods

[fluid inlet]

Imagine diplodocus tail whippin rex in the face , rex knew not to come in the Jurassic period. Us big dawgs dominate 🦕

[tacit pine]

If they literally lived with 9999 sauropods it would be there main food source. How tf would they be worse at hunting them than rex

[thorn grove]

he didn't say worse tbf

[winter marsh]

and the fact the only sauropod it could possibly pratice with was alamosaurus which is a powerhouse of a creature for its time

[light osprey]

The elephant sized predator hunting smaller elephant sized prey

[halcyon cobalt]

the edmontosaurus would have used its size and ornithopod cunning to scare away any daring tyrannosaurs

[fluid inlet]

Rex just better be happy Magnapaulia was in a different time , heh.

[thorn grove]

wdym I thought Edmusthosaurus was gigantic

[winter marsh]

edmontosaurus when I put some megatons into its spine

[halcyon cobalt]

magnapaulia was praying that T rex never used its human-like intelligence to invent time machines

[thorn grove]

Magnapaulia is named Big Paul and therefore wins by being funnier

[stiff osprey]

*big paul with the fat ass

[fluid inlet]

Ayo??????

[stiff osprey]

magnus = large
paulia = of paul
lati = wide/deep
caudus = tail/posterior

[fluid inlet]

Such a chad

[winter marsh]

tasty

[fluid inlet]

No one talks bad about big Paul

[winter marsh]

[open compass]

Does anyone has good trike and alamosaurus sizes? Please

[stiff osprey]

the largest Triceratops is Willard at 8.5-8.8 meters

Largest Alamosaurus is 24-26 m

[frigid delta]

THE WEIGHT
U FORGOT THEIR WEIGHT

[drifting condor]

Is iggy vs torvo a tie?

[stiff osprey]

i didn't have weight estimates to give anyway but now i'm like extra not giving them

Maybe derpy knows

[wind prairie]

I know thylacines would be better for the modern world but...
DEINOOOOTHEEEERIIUUUUUUUMMMM
(what in god's name is this slow mode??)

[fluid inlet]

Do you happen to know Willard’s weight? , nvm read the rest well I ain’t gifting you the conc now

[steady rock]

iggy takes it'

[fluid inlet]

Torvo slams

[steady rock]

blows u up with mind

[wind prairie]

correct me if I'm wrong but isn't torvo a good deal heavier

[steady rock]

iggy iggy to biggy to be stressin

[wraith kindle]

Smol birbs

[fluid inlet]

Wrong

[frigid delta]

what abt this Iggy size estimate?

[steady rock]

i cant read french

[frigid delta]

SPEAK ENGLISH

[steady rock]

https://tenor.com/view/mortified-dog-shaved-looking-around-stan-twitter-gif-5783855028690132564

[fluid inlet]

Bruh

[indigo cradle]

I miss that game
The weapon is what was used for the hunt

[frigid delta]

hey... about that thing u said abt "Rex got squished"

[polar scroll]

N-N-NINETEEN TONS?!?!!?!?!?

[frigid delta]

U HEARD THAT RIGHT

[sudden wind]

The question was "what was the biggest non azdarchid flying creature", therefore I excluded every Azhdarchid pterosaurs, characterized by their elongated limbs and necks, which are made up of elongated cervical that are circular in cross section, giant heads with expanded nasoantorbital fenestra, a small trunk ~50% longer than their humerus and other characteristics (mostly around the pectoral girdle and wing structure) I won't bother to cite because no one except Pterosaur paleontologists thinks is interesting.

So, as you exclude the whole Azhdarchid family, the animals that I cited are the largest flying vertebrates, and even organisms because invertebrates never excessed kestrel/sparrowhawk wingspan.

[halcyon cobalt]

tldr: the question was “what is the largest non-azhdarchid flyer” and it is possibly pteranodon

[sudden wind]

I will touch you

[halcyon cobalt]

wholesome

[stable sun]

Tropeognathus, 8.3 m wingspan

[frigid delta]

Neeco's Orca is back

[sudden wind]

Exams have ended, but college life still continues 🥀

[sudden wind]

I cited Pteranodon, Tropeognathus and Argentavis. I accounted for both mass and wingpsan (Pelagornis has a 20% larger wingspan than Argentavis, depending on the estimation it can even be more, but it is significantly smaller given Argentavis' mass estimations).

[indigo cradle]

Trop for PoT

[pliant cedar]

giant ground sloths

[manic grail]

Spinosaurus on 4 legs got refuted but its arms werent even found? Does anyone have any knowledge about this

[stable sun]

But we do have its arms they're just fragments and from different individuals

[hushed fossil]

So the chewing animation Pachy does in game, I imagine is not very accurate?

[manic grail]

Can you please give the source? I couldnt find anything on the internet that says its arms were found

[halcyon cobalt]

probably like the steppe mammoth or something

[pliant cedar]

siberia would be fire with mammoths
would probs get farmed within a day tho

[halcyon cobalt]

farmed by what?

[spice snow]

Andrewsarchus

[stable sun]

FSAC KK 11889 has an ulna for example

Russell 1996 described a bunch of Spinosaurus arm bones

i can't give you all the sources because it's mostly isolated claws and phalanges etc

[zinc solstice]

Could Dineobellator Climb Trees?

[wraith kindle]

The ones on big Paul look like birds anyways.

[light osprey]

It is a well known fact that many have observed the Dineobellator climbing trees

[wraith kindle]

Iggy with a sniper rifle.

[warped peak]

Forgot to share this after running Pseudocyon numbers

Projected size for one of the largest amphicyonids

[sudden wind]

I don't think anyone really bothered looking at this in Pachycephalosauria so kind of unknown.

[wraith kindle]

That’s fine, I just felt like media made it bigger than it actually was.

[wraith kindle]

Isn’t that kind of chewing motion exclusive to mammals? At least now.

[sudden wind]

Ceratopsians may have developed mammal like chewing (Varriale. 2016)
https://peerj.com/articles/2132/

[wraith kindle]

Cool, certainly doesn’t exclude it evolving independently.

[spiral lake]

This looks to be smaller than the smilodon populator. Both ignes and giganteus exced 500 kg.

[wintry reef]

so "Eptriceratops" is bigger than Triceratops, which mean that Eo is tha biggest ceratopsian right?

[warped peak]

Ampicyonid proportipns have changed over the years and dramatically need revisiting. The same paper that gave 546kg Amphicyon gave 773kg Pseudocyon

[spiral lake]

From what i still know ignes and giganteus weight havent changed, maybe there has been a downsizing i didnt know about.

[warped peak]

There hasn't been a weight study on Amphicyonids in 19 years

That's why values for Pseudocyon were so hard to get

[sudden wind]

The only Eotriceratops specimen we have is bigger only if you scale it with the same skull:body ratio as Triceratops. However we have the postcranial skeleton of Eotriceratops showing that it was a bobblehead (has a bigger head for a smaller body than Triceratops) so no, it isn't bigger.

Right now I think Triceratops keeps its safe place of largest Ceratopsid so far. Anyway given the nature of animal populations these species were probably maybe within a similar size range (yet again not enough samples to test or verify that).

[sudden wind]

Triceratops prorsus (skeletal) compared to Eotriceratops xerinsularis (red silhouette).

Comparison by falcon.09.
Arts respectively by Lancian Idolatry and Get Away Trike.

[wintry reef]

ye there are a lot of crazy images that show eotriceratops being as big as a rex

[manic grail]

I mean if the ulna is enough to dispute it being on 4 legs then yea

[stable sun]

Well the claws are

Also it has a COM inconsistent with it being a quadruped I think

[drifting condor]

Who was larger plateosaurus or yunnnanosaurus

[placid knot]

I believe it's Yunnanosaurus at 4.5 tons? Vs plateosaurus 4 tons at their biggest

[open compass]

What if horridus was here

[tough parcel]

They're literally the same size so

[outer tusk]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[drifting condor]

https://tenor.com/view/coryxkenshin-youtuber-ugh-dismay-gif-17625420

[outer tusk]

plaeosaurus is 3.3 tonnes at the largest, and yuannosaurus is 4.7 tonnes ( not at the largest )

[drifting condor]

3 TONS

So what's the largest basal sauropodomorph?

[outer tusk]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1159307144252895242/1327711077554720880/cachedVideo.mov?ex=67840ecc&is=6782bd4c&hm=c1018279545f5890d7f43fbd8e008a11477d13ef1c65bde9903e71adc615345e&

[drifting condor]

He's the largest ok

[outer tusk]

that's not a he

[drifting condor]

Their the largest ok

[outer tusk]

you do realize carcharodontosaurus is not a sauropodomorph?

[drifting condor]

I was joking ofc I know it isn't

[drifting condor]

Only said that cause you posted that gif after I asked what's the biggest sauropodomorph

[outer tusk]

even though the "gif" has no relevance to the question

[sterile trail]

I will forever love this roar

[balmy oyster]

Lishulong I think

[stable sun]

Unnamed one from Elliot formation
https://sauroposeidon.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/wedel-and-yates-2011-wavp-a-diplodocus-sized-bipedal-basal-sauropodomorph-from-south-africa.pdf

[sharp kestrel]

can someone tell me some cool stuff about megalania?

[stable sun]

Lishulong is largest named and second largest in general

[wary heath]

It is the largest lizard that ever lived. Since it is a monitor lizard, it was probably venomous and had the same hunting strategies as Komodos with bleeding their victims out

[drifting condor]

The third biggest is?

[stable sun]

It is the largest lizard that ever lived
What about Mosasaurus?

[wary heath]

Mosasaurs are a separate group of marine reptiles and don’t qualify as lizards.

[stable sun]

But why wouldn't they qualify? They're squamates and aren't snakes.

[tough parcel]

Cause they're classified as mosasaurs silly

[wary heath]

They have their similarities but they are still a separate group of animals. They have stuff in common with ichthyosaurs but they themselves are a separate group.

[stable sun]

Ichthyosaurs have nothing to do with Mosasaurs. I'm saying that Mosasaurs are lizards (they are squamates closely related to monitor lizards).

Also lizards themselves aren't truly their own separate group of animals as they don't form a monophyletic clade.

[wary heath]

Lizard is an arbitrary term

[stable sun]

Lizards are squamates that aren't snakes

[steady rock]

whats a squamate?

[lavish frigate]

Anyone have a Ludodactylus size chart? Can’t find any where it’s just standing on the ground, always in flight other than one with a cat which…gives me no meaningful sense of scale for what I’m doing

[tough parcel]

Small

[lavish frigate]

I’m going to eat your fingers

[steady rock]

i have a question, was a azdarchid probably the maxium size a creature could get too and still fly?

[spice snow]

No, if they have enough air sacs

[fluid inlet]

Willard victims

[drifting condor]

Guess I'm still just and iggy fan

[stable sun]

Clade containing lizards and snakes but not tuataras
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squamata

[spice snow]

Im gonna pull a karen on whatever caused the jurassic mass extinction cus they killed rhamphorhynchus 😡

I want one as a pet

[balmy oyster]

Second largest? What’s the largest one, I believe I might somewhat know

[stable sun]

https://sauroposeidon.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/wedel-and-yates-2011-wavp-a-diplodocus-sized-bipedal-basal-sauropodomorph-from-south-africa.pdf

[wind prairie]

no. Mosasaurs literally are lizards

[fluid inlet]

we all lizards technically

[stable sun]

Okay it's cf. Yunnanosaurus

[wind prairie]

(I'm genuinely going to stop speaking here if they keep changing the slowmode to this degree)
mosasaurs are one of the few cases of an extinct group of reptiles that can scientifically be called lizards. (this is aigialosaurus, a mosasauroid)

[wary heath]

Maybe just your side of the family is a bunch of lizards lol

[fluid inlet]

it's real dumb tbh like why is cooldown at 2 minutes

[wind prairie]

it doesn't need to be that long
even if it wasn't, I've never seen spam in this channel anyways??? what's the deal??

[balmy oyster]

Holy moly

Wait wait I remember this one, I’ve seen it before in another server

[stable sun]

Yeah it was about 16 m long

[placid knot]

What's the size of the largest Yunnanosaurus specimen?

[stable sun]

Should be 6.4 t for that specimen Molina-Perez and Larramendi put at 12 m

[sudden wind]

They are "lizards" but lizard isn't a taxonomic group and is solely based on plesiomorphic traits.

[fluid inlet]

🫃

[spice snow]

From what I've heard, they are but there's almost no reptiles that are actually lizards

[drifting condor]

At least yuanno is almost as big as igaunadon

[loud wing]

There is a theory about snakes evolving from mosasaurs

(Seems like someone decided to play cladistics with you, snakes being lizards and whales being fish is normal here and follows the same logic as birds being dinosaurs)

[fluid inlet]

sometimes i look at turtles and their faces remind me of sauropds for some reason

[sudden wind]

Snakes are ophidians while Mosasaurs are Mosasauroids.

There is a debate about who's mosasaurs' closest relatives with either varanoids or ophidians as sister group to mosas. Afaik, there is more support for monitor lizards than for snakes.

[loud wing]

I don't claim it's correct and I don't want to debate, I just know that this hypothesis exists. Snake evolution is not exactly clear so far and has different versions

[halcyon cobalt]

isn’t this ledumahadi?

[stable sun]

No

[stable sun]

But this is not true. There's no theory that says this.

[loud wing]

there is
but I meant mosasaurs as mosasauria like here, not exactly the mosasaur_us

[stable sun]

Well that is weird

[loud wing]

(it is slightly outdated)
(but it still exists)
(but is outdated)

[stable sun]

Wdym

[umbral kite]

y are Alligators top teeth out but all of a crocodile teeth are put

[sudden wind]

I haven't heard of this one in a loooooooong time. I don't think anyone now argues or try to say snakes are "Mosasaurs". Here is a recent phylogeny (Zietlow et al.2023)

Jormungandr walhallaensis : a new mosasaurine (Squamata: Mosasauroidea) from the Pierre Shale Formation (Pembina Member: Middle Campanian) of North Dakota)

[steady rock]

what was the differences between sarcosuchus from nigeria and the sarcosuchus from argentina?

[sudden wind]

Sometimes, top teeth are visible in alligators (they are in Caimans for example). I think a better way to distinguish a croc from a gator is to look at the head texture : crocs are gnarly while most gators are rather smooth. Gators don't also have all those groves on the jaws that crocs have. The coloration also is a good indicator to distinguish both animals : crocs are light colored most of the time (brown, yellow, greenish, grey) while alligators are black (same for the eyes btw, crocs have them yellow/green while gators are black). Then of course there are other differences but I won't go further.

[pearl snow]

One drank mate and the other didn't, I guess.

[steady rock]

?

[sudden wind]

If you ever get access to these papers you may know :

The Giant Crocodyliform Sarcosuchus from the Cretaceous of Africa : https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.1066521
Systematic revision of Sarcosuchus hartti (Crocodyliformes) from the Recôncavo Basin (Early Cretaceous) of Bahia, north-eastern Brazil : https://academic.oup.com/zoolinnean/article/188/2/552/5546069

[steady rock]

should a make complaint in mod mail to change the slowmode timer

[agile edge]

whats the moon by the progress bar mean?

[tribal trail]

thats the well rested buff, it gives you more growth when you complete quests. you get the buff by logging out in your home cave for at least an hour

[broken shale]

I’m a paleontologist

[robust crane]

are crocodiles the small guys throughout history

because the largest crocodilian is either a caiman or an alligator

[honest cobalt]

The Nile crocodile is pretty big sarco and deino are crocodiles I believe

[fluid inlet]

Sarco is not a crocodile

[fluid inlet]

Sarcosuchus is commonly classified as part of the clade Pholidosauridae, a group of crocodile-like reptiles (Crocodyliformes) related but outside Crocodylia

[honest cobalt]

Big long things

[thorn grove]

deinosuchus is an alligatoroid I think

Oh the cooldown is only 1 minute now that's better

[fluid inlet]

It is

[wraith kindle]

There's some really big saltwater crocs, and nile crocs are known for reaching big sizes. There's been some big caimans too I think.

[honest cobalt]

Ty for correcting me! They all look similar to me lmao!

[fluid inlet]

Enter purussaurus

[topaz shell]

The biggest caiman

[steady rock]

whats bigger, the average bigfoot or shortfaced bear?

[hardy sentinel]

Could a healthy Allosaurus Fragilis/Anax take on a healthy Stegosaurus one on one and win? Or would Stegosaurus be more of a group based "hunt"

I am not asking as a theoretical idea to have a cool dino v dino fight in my head or whatever, I just wanna understand how much of an impact both Allosaurus species actually had on it's ecosystem when it was solo

[hardy sentinel]

Short faced bear, most anecdotal evidence of bigfoot points to discriptions of 6-9 feet, and a weight of roughly 1,000 pounds (453 kilos). Short faces are much bigger, with 5 foot at the shoulder and 11 feet standing up, and weighing in at around 2,000 pounds (907 kilos)

[steady rock]

so basically double the size?

[hardy sentinel]

yup, but upper estimates for bigfoot are around double, but thats just from peoples personal accounts, maybe its a bigger sasquatch, maybe its people with bad eyes. Either way theres no way a bigfoot could get that big

[tough parcel]

Bigfoot sits (realistically) at 6-9 feet, any bigger and you get biological problems

[steady rock]

how big was gigantophethicus ? smaller or bigger then bigfoot and by how much?

[hardy sentinel]

especially for a biped, which from the current photo "evidence" shows arms clearly not made for even partial quadropedalism (left)

@steady rock keep in mind gigantopithecus was an obligate quadroped and could most likely not be biped very long, so around the size of an abnormally large gorilla (right)

[steady rock]

like this depiction?

[hardy sentinel]

Bingo

[steady rock]

400 pounds lighter then the average ( realistic ) bigfoot

would bigfoot be ( theroretically ) the largest primate?

[hardy sentinel]

most likely, I saw a unique theory that it would be our closest living relative, coming from an australopithecus rather than a Gigantopitcheus as a speculative cryptid evolution thing

[steady rock]

i could honestly really see it

[hardy sentinel]

https://youtu.be/gMYJDqujON8?si=tgnOxPugrilTo9AJ

[steady rock]

can i ask another kinda cryptid related paleo question? whats the lochness monsters size and what plesisour ( size wise ) would it be closest too?

[hardy sentinel]

Found this abysmal size estimate online but its probably close to Elasmosaurus or our friendly fish eater from Gondwa

[steady rock]

isnt prehestoric wildlife like bad for sizes and stuff?

[hardy sentinel]

Depends on how well we know of the fossils, but comparing the fossils to more completed relatives we can get a good idea of sizes, and as more are discovered we can learn more. So as it may not be the best to go off of, it is still the best we can use for your type of question

[tough parcel]

Prehistoric Wildlife is always bad, there's no grey area

[hardy sentinel]

btw I would love an answer to this question, been itching for an answer

@tough parcel welcome to paleontology

[tough parcel]

What...?

[steady rock]

yeah but it would probably loose / flee majority of the time, you know, unless your a dragon fly, majority of hunts fail

[hardy sentinel]

Was pinging you because I would have to wait the ENTIRE slow mode to just say 3 words, so I used my reply and a ping as a way to agree

[tough parcel]

I know, but I don't understand the reason why they were said 😭

[steady rock]

maybe he was making a joke over paleotology size depictions?

[wind prairie]

falcon is like the most knowledgeable here lol

[hardy sentinel]

I bet I know more facts about Allosaurus

[tough parcel]

I know that Allosaurus SMELLS

[steady rock]

hes been here since i first joined this discord in 2020, i think, he was here when that person called torvosaurus enjoyer was here, thats how far back i remember him

[hardy sentinel]

Good thing he is no longer called Torvosaurus enjoyer, I hate that box headed Allosaurus wannabe

[wind prairie]

hey kids! Want to hear a dangerously dinotastic fact about allosaurus, the different lizard!?!?
Scientists believe this awesome predator wielded its upper jaw like a battle axe, slamming it into its prey to make them bleed out!!!!!!!! Evidence supports this... looks down at paper oh... oh god... NO... IT CAN'T BE

[balmy oyster]

Accurate

[steady rock]

do we know when allosaurus first appeared in the fossil record? if i remember correctly ceratosaurus came before it and lived after it so score one for cerato

[wind prairie]

unironically probably though because lots of big animals reek
imagine the stench of a sauropod

[balmy oyster]

”allosaurus wannabe”
Tanneri/Edmarka Rex larger than all allosaur species
possible fragmentary relatives reaching up to 6t & higher

[hardy sentinel]

Ceratosaurs most likely came before, but not Ceratosaurus proper. Do not quote me on that

[steady rock]

https://tenor.com/view/romanoffslvr-romanofflvr-gif-25692536

[outer tusk]

This is an accuracy question and I was curious what should I change about my dolichorhynchops

[hardy sentinel]

Isn't that only animals with sweat glands? I don't really know if reptiles stink all that much on their own, but from the many snakes and lizards I have wrangled in my day, I haven't smelled anything bad (I wouldn't use birds in this situation because they don't have the same skin setup as sauropods)

[wind prairie]

he looks angry tell him to turn that frown upside down

[outer tusk]

Ceratosauria as a whole did came before Carnosauria, but both Allosaurus and Ceratosaurus showed up about the same time

[steady rock]

that plesiosaur that got eaten looks very happy, get it a therapist

[hardy sentinel]

Too late?

[outer tusk]

That's not a plesiosaur, that's a mosasaur ( specifically prognathodon )

Also it's not smiling

[steady rock]

i have a question, can a prehestoric creature/fossil be able to be a cryptid?

" A cryptid is an animal or other being that is said to exist but has not been proven to do so " so i feel like its a possibility

[balmy oyster]

So kallamedu giant

[hardy sentinel]

I think the best way to identify a dino cryptid would be footprints that resemble another dino's feet but have enough differences to question if it's actually a seperate genus

[steady rock]

isnt there actual material of Bruhathkayosaurus ( i think thats the kallamedu giant ) tho?

last time i heard of Bruhathkayosaurus it became a therapod apparently

[balmy oyster]

yes but I meant the actual sauropod material, which had bigfoot level quality photo's and very mediocre sketches of the material

[tough parcel]

Not really because by having a fossil of some kind, that's proven to exist

[hardy sentinel]

What about my trackway analogy? Could that theoretically identify as a fossil cryptid?

[hallow spear]

Cryptids are just dramatic people who saw an animal either once thought to be extinct, or they badly needed glasses

[frigid delta]

is this still an accurate Torvo size info?

[stiff osprey]

incredibly wide size range but not wrong

[tough parcel]

Not really because people dismiss tracks nowadays because humans have the capacity for hoaxes

Dinosaurs (probably) did not

[stuck chasm]

@stoic hazel Hello, could you please repost this in our https://canary.discord.com/channels/537375400867659875/1150510168073850971 and a member of our team will be happy to assist you further!

[stoic hazel]

Okay

[hallow spear]

The cunning dinosaur…

[outer tusk]

Is something like this also extreme?

[fluid inlet]

lol allosaurus aka Torvosaurus victims we own u

[hardy sentinel]

I hate that people have to ruin fun of an actual find by faking their own

[frigid delta]

Allo dinoism

[hardy sentinel]

But who made it out of the Jurassic and became some of the biggest carnivores to ever walk the earth?

[steady rock]

i saw a allosaurus kill a torvosaurus tho

[fluid inlet]

U seen a allosaurus need help of the whole Jurassic to kill a torvo because he was getting bullied by the real apex of the Jurassic 📣

[hardy sentinel]

Talking about real life, not PoT or dinosaur revolution where they killed a Torvo with the power of friendship

[hardy sentinel]

Allosaurus Anax entered the chat

[hallow spear]

Anax isn’t even that big

[fluid inlet]

Allosaurus Anax dies to Torvosaurus

[steady rock]

well maybe the torvosaurus deserved to get jumped in dinosaur revolution, how about that

tjhe real question is how that torvosaurus managed ot knock a sauropod on its side

[hardy sentinel]

The power of EVIL obviously

[hallow spear]

There are fragilis/sp specimens that get bigger than the largest anax specimen which would be between 10-11m for the holotype postorbital

[fluid inlet]

Cook stego

[warm saddle]

by the power of plot convenience

[steady rock]

shout out to the lusotitan for being fat

[stiff osprey]

Neither of them, as carcharodontosaurids are not descendants of Allosaurus

[hardy sentinel]

Meant Allosaurus as referring to the bigger group, which is Allosauroidea (which Charchs fit into)

[halcyon cobalt]

torvosaurus evolved into spinosaurus so torvo >>>

[stiff osprey]

yeah, megalosauroids include Spinosaurus, which is also one of the biggest carnivores ever (and looks cooler)

[hardy sentinel]

Spinosaurids are Megalosauroids?? Please dispatch me immediately

God dang the beef is legendary, from Allo and Torvo to Charch and Spino, the two megafamilies CANNOT stop beefing

[drifting condor]

what are a few herbivorous dinosaur able to reach 7-10 tons?

[hardy sentinel]

I wish I could find a cool Shantungosaurus edit to drop for this (granted it reached over 10 tons but still)

[warm saddle]

edmon,trike,some sauropods

[thorn grove]

specifically that range or just at least that big

[drifting condor]

That range

[stiff osprey]

Stegosaurus, Iguanodon, Galeamopus, Limaysaurus, Rapetosaurus, Priconodon

[drifting condor]

What is iggy doing there

[thorn grove]

big specimen

[drifting condor]

Wasn't the largest 5 tons and 7-8 ton specimen was just an overestimate

[tough parcel]

Princodon numero Uno

[warm saddle]

what about salta

[stiff osprey]

i feel like this is the 4th time today i've talked about 8.8 tonne iguanodon

[sullen cairn]

remember kids allosaurus anax can't be over 11m because the 11m+ femora from the same exact pit as the type don't overlap so are actually allosaurus sp but prioconodon is over 7t

[tough parcel]

Perhaps it is time for a new Iguanodon skeletal 🤗

[drifting condor]

Drop the source

[hardy sentinel]

Broski probably had a chance against a small Rex (if they lived together ofc)

[stiff osprey]

well uh the teeth are big or something

@drifting condor https://utoronto.scholaris.ca/server/api/core/bitstreams/d600fdd7-8c6e-4324-b913-7e4fa45660e4/content

page 196

[fluid inlet]

Now drop your source

[drifting condor]

2013 is 12 years ago so

[stiff osprey]

something something beggars choosers

[fluid inlet]

What’s the name of the huge unnamed carcharodontosaurid from Brazil

[warm saddle]

kyle

[tacit pine]

Flandre gorgosaurus

[fluid inlet]

Size estimation of Kyle

[drifting condor]

https://tenor.com/view/ghost-call-of-duty-modern-warfare-ii-call-of-duty-stare-blank-stare-gif-27106847

[sullen cairn]

through the power of one abstract with edmontonia tooth measurements largest prioconodon tooth equates to like 90cm femur based off edmontonia

[stiff osprey]

for ankylosaur standards that sounds very big

[drifting condor]

I'll put this in the idk section

[fluid inlet]

If we can do measurements of a iggy from a tooth I want size estimations of the unnamed carcharodontosaurid from Brazil. Thank you.

[frigid delta]

Chilli Dog when Slushy Dog walks in:

[sullen cairn]

gsp's 3.5t rugosidens has an estimated 77.5cm femur for reference

unfortunately gsp doesn't have a longiceps estimate with an explicit specimen attached which is annoying because the only given tooth measurements were for longiceps

[stiff osprey]

even ignoring the larger vertebra and tibia individuals that'd still be the largest nodosaurid

[tacit pine]

Ngl you should measure my tooth and estimate my size

[frigid delta]

ok Table

[stiff osprey]

this mf just doxxed table

[wraith kindle]

Shortfaced bear is still able to stand upright without too much issue though?

[sullen cairn]

oh yeah teeth are deffo big but is the tibia actually that big the circumference is the same as nodosaurus

[stiff osprey]

idk i just have obsolerus's scaling of it based on gat edmontonia that got 8.8 m

[sullen cairn]

im just happy someone finally doesnt think its a sauropod

but yeah you can squirm that largest tooth to like 7t pretty easily

[drifting condor]

For now I'm just gonna say iggy is 5 tons

[fluid inlet]

You dare go against the experts ?

[sullen cairn]

for reference that looks like this

[tough parcel]

Oh that’s evil

[sullen cairn]

although perhaps one could bullcrap instead extrapolating skull size from tooth size and finding the most bobbleheaded edmontonia-type thing to scale with from there

this idea has been immediately shot down by the 10% discrepancy between longiceps skull lengths

[frigid delta]

said the evil falcon

[stiff osprey]

iirc the estimated length tibia scaling was 7.6t

[drifting condor]

https://tenor.com/view/hell-yeah-dance-gif-13824401040455584310

[sullen cairn]

i may have no idea how one gets a 20cm circumference nodosaur tibia to over 7t but thats close enough to tooth scaling ft way too much other cross scaling for me to no longer care enough to disagree

[sullen cairn]

come to think of it perhaps its a better idea to just scale longiceps' limbs with rugosidens' limbs rather than scale the average dorsal length with another rugosidens and than scale that rugosidens limbs with the other rugosidens limbs

[fluid inlet]

What’s better tooth scaling or footprint scaling if those were both the only options

[sullen cairn]

is gets 4.5-5.5t
man edmontonia sucks

[stiff osprey]

while footprints are often severely distorted, they usually aren't distorted to more than twice/less than half of the original foot size

meanwhile some teeth being 2-3x larger than others is pretty normal in a reptile

so for terrestrial reptiles i'd say tooth scaling is worse than footprint scaling

[sullen cairn]

prioconodon is lovely because it combines tooth scaling, caudal with a hand for reference scaling, and half a tibia scaling into one charming package

[drifting condor]

There's only one way I'm gonna believe 8.8 ton iggy

[fluid inlet]

Which is what Chilli Dog

[sullen cairn]

through distressingly large edmontonia radius cross scaling and that gdi of hartmans you can get about 8t for giant priconodon tooth via an arguably much simpler scaling

[drifting condor]

A paragraph

[stiff osprey]

a bit confused why a radius would make the tooth larger but 8t is close enough to the other results that i believe it

[halcyon cobalt]

didn’t random link the actual paper

[sullen cairn]

the edmontonia individual with the crown measurements (AMNH 5381, not cmn 8531 which i read it as at first so ignore my first couple attempts at scaling) has a normal sized humerus but giant radius in maidment et al 2012 so when you scale it with any volumetric it becomes a lot larger

[stiff osprey]

nice

[steady rock]

was there Thyreophora on every continent?

[stiff osprey]

parankylosaurs are in antarctica, SA, and oceania while the rest all have stegosaurs

[fluid inlet]

Do yall think there is still a lot more dinosaur families to be discovered by discovered I mean tyrannosaurid , spinosaurid , Carcharodontosaurid. I know I’m likely using the wrong word.

[stiff osprey]

we discovered a new superfamily in 2021 so yea

[steady rock]

any ceratopsian outside of america asia and eruope?

[fluid inlet]

Which was that?

[stiff osprey]

parankylosauria

[wind prairie]

I mean we've probably got the big picture. Smaller groups maybe but aside from that probably not

[steady rock]

anyone here knowledgeable abt sauropods?

what was the latest survive Sauropodomorpha, like, dinosaurs like plateosaurus or yuannosaurus

[stiff osprey]

pretty sure yunnanosaurus is one of the latest if not the latest

[sullen cairn]

scaling priconodon tooth with AMNH 5381 and using the resulting skull width to scale with gsp's AMNH 5665 skull width (which has a weight estimate) also gets 7t so seems to reasonably consistently end up at 7-8t

[stiff osprey]

ok correction there's like 5 different sauropodomorphs that lived ~183 ma and then they vanish

[steady rock]

aw man

[restive crag]

Does anyone happen to have an accessible version of Yuanyanglong description? https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0195667124001964

[steady rock]

i got this.

what am i doing?

[restive crag]

I don’t know

[steady rock]

well, what does ur question meme?

[stiff osprey]

too late i have answered it

[steady rock]

would a sauropod like retro agustinia be possible or nah?

[restive crag]

Random being the goat like always

I’ve been on my small theropod arc as of recent(half a year)

[drifting condor]

That's not from the paper

[halcyon cobalt]

why don’t you trust the paper?

[drifting condor]

It's 12 years old

[halcyon cobalt]

age doesn’t mean it’s inherently wrong. tmk it hasn’t been debunked so it should it be fine

[drifting condor]

Then in that case

https://tenor.com/view/code-gif-26225180

[restive crag]

Also I apologize I haven’t been keeping super up to date. Do the references to the wading bird body-type have anything to do with its expected ecology?

[drifting condor]

8.8 TON IGGY IS REAL!!

[stiff osprey]

I don't know either, I happened to have the paper but haven't read it

[steady rock]

whats the largest Sauropodomorpha, like, dinosaurs like plateosaurus or yuannosaurus? i remember a rex sized one

[restive crag]

Yunnanosaurus and your mother

[wraith kindle]

There needs to be a Yourmomasaurus….

[steady rock]

https://tenor.com/view/bbddst-stan-twitter-stan-twt-girl-crying-crying-shaking-and-throwing-up-gif-25031135

[sullen cairn]

tooth priconodon is still looks pretty scary next to acro

[fluid inlet]

We talking about over 100 million of years tho

[wraith kindle]

Ankylosaurs/nodosaurs got to NA though?

[steady rock]

and asia, mongolia has over like, 10 i think

Wrong reply

[steady rock]

whats it compared too with sauropelta? the other nodasaur that lived with acro

[wraith kindle]

Actually, yea, parankylosaurs are basal ones.

[wraith kindle]

They’re quite a bit smaller.

Credit Wikipedia

[drifting condor]

Wait iggy is bigger than tarbo and acro?

[topaz shell]

Wasn’t it borealopelta?

[steady rock]

no because borealpelta was found in a aquatic deposit and im pretty sure the formation witha cro and sauropelta was landlocked

[topaz shell]

Borealopelta did live with acro and I’m pretty sure acro went extinct before sauropelta came around

(I think)

[topaz shell]

That just means borealopelta died at sea

(Pirate behavior)

[sullen cairn]

evidence lancian fauna is washed?

[topaz shell]

Bros bite sized

[steady rock]

didnt acro live with tenoto and deinon? i thought sauropelta lived with them

[stable sun]

specimen is either NHMUK R2502 or NHMUK R2510 I forgot which one

[lone zephyr]

why is there a brachyrostran abelisaur named thanos

[stable sun]

naming it Thanos was a stupid idea

[regal cloak]

Cuz uh chin idk

[stable sun]

It it literally a single axis it has no chin preserved

[regal cloak]

Then uh idk they were just trolling

[frigid delta]

"stupid idea"

[stable sun]

Naming it anything was a stupid idea it's literally 1 barely diagnostic bone that sucks and the name is stupid

[frigid delta]

YOU SHALL NOT SPEAK SUCH WORDS FOR MIGHTY KING THANOS 👿👿👿

[stable sun]

your mighty king will most likely become an invalid taxon

[halcyon cobalt]

mighty king, more like a false lord who sits on a throne of scarce and shattered remains 😂

[light osprey]

That’s also a Campanian centrosaurine

[lone zephyr]

heavily based on other basal brachyrostrans cus itss known from a single bone btw

[frigid delta]

who tf is this

[frigid delta]

THANOS?!

[stable sun]

It is not based on basal brachyrostran because it and Carnotaurus are the only brachyrostrans with an axis

[wraith kindle]

What do you mean ‘with an axis’? Is there a bone called that?

[wraith kindle]

Ohh.

[steady rock]

i dont wanna sound dumb but didnt sino make it?

[lone zephyr]

besides that it is

[lavish frigate]

On an accuracy scale how would y’all rate my pteranodon (and before anyone points it out I realized the wing finger is on the wrong side of the hand)

[dry vortex]

I love the skull tbh

[lavish frigate]

Thx

[pliant cedar]

rotund protomammal hippo thing is in pot

[topaz shell]

LISO

[topaz fjord]

im no expert but these proportions are spot on

[lavish frigate]

Thx!

[sudden wind]

Probably not enough teeth and not splayed enough, nostril is too high up, posterior region isn't high enough, eyes should be front positioned.

Figures from O'Keefe. 2008.

[outer tusk]

the back of the head right? for ( posterior )

[sudden wind]

Yes

[lone zephyr]

moschops?

i have spent my entire day looking at weird dino names, why on earth is there a sauropod called zby

[sullen cairn]

as pronto said upcoming prince creek work places perotorum as campanian
canadensis does extend to earliest maastrichtian though

[drifting condor]

Why would igaunadon need to be so massive
(You know what else is massive)

[warped peak]

C o t y l o r y n c h u s

[drifting condor]

https://tenor.com/view/ninja-ninja-stare-tyler-blevins-tyler-ninja-blevins-cringe-gif-16433056272855193593

[outer tusk]

I mean I feel like although people have asked this question about any large animal and it's as simple as eating more resources like trees or reaching sizes that usually would be unkillable for most predators

[light osprey]

I thought it extending into the Maastrichtian was sort of an iffy proposition too

[sullen cairn]

canadensis is present for at least half of horsethief which itself begins at the campanian-maastrichtian boundary so there should be at least a bit of maastrichtian range for the thing

[pliant cedar]

it wouldnt need to be
reptiles grow continually as they age
the larger an iggy got the less predators would mess with them
the biggest iggys got to a size where nothing could threaten them, and getting enough food was their main concern

[lunar copper]

i forget, wasn't it Megalosaurus that lived alongside iguanodon? or neovenator

[light osprey]

Clearly it immediately starting dying when the climate changed

[pliant cedar]

megalo was from middle jurassic, iguanodon is late jurassic (i think) and early cretaceous

neovenator lived alongside iggy, and also baryonyx (although i think from slightly different ages in teh same formation)

[sullen cairn]

unless... the northwesterritoriensis...?

[lunar copper]

yeye, was mixing up neo and megalo then

[light osprey]

Sinoceratops northwestterritoriensis

[tulip gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/cargo-ship-cargo-ship-mjc-gif-19570172

[wraith kindle]

You seem to have mistaken this for the memes channel @tulip gyro

[outer tusk]

Iggy lived with riparo,ceratosucho, neoven as the big 3 theropods in the Wessex formation

While Bary lived in Welad Clay which also had Iggy and Mantelli

[fluid inlet]

Perucetussssssssssss

[tulip gyro]

it was more of a response to the video of the rex as it basically were horn sounds or how its called of a ship

[stray saddle]

That a truck

[wraith kindle]

Not all prehistoric reptiles did, pterosaurs had deterministic ( genetically determined ) growth, most dinosaurs certainly were too.

[pliant cedar]

mb

[topaz jolt]

What

[wraith kindle]

The second one does sound like a horn.

[drifting condor]

What was the biggest bipedal basal sauropodomorph?

[wind prairie]

what a sick joke. Those sounds are from that old parasaurolophus skull test

[topaz jolt]

@wraith kindle its not they engineered the sounds for rex

[topaz jolt]

Youre confused. A lab made this it isnt a joke

[scenic flame]

the only dinosaurs we have a good idea of what they actually sounded like are some saurolophines and some ankulosaurids.
any video claiming to have "realistic super sciency dino sounds!" is lying

[wraith kindle]

Not like car horn, like instrument horn, it’s like a moaning bellow or something, kind of haunting.

[wind prairie]

you are joking right?

[scenic flame]

stuff like this is just reasonable speculation, it isn't at all concrete, JP was not wrong, and cannot be proved wrong, except with parasaurolophus specifically in terms of vocalizations.
and yeah that's the reconstructed para calls researchers got from making a cast of it's nasal passages.

[wraith kindle]

Well, you could link to whatever made it.

[topaz jolt]

okay my bad

[wraith kindle]

Are the second parts the paras call? Is that what you mean? Sounds like some kind of haunting call.

[scenic flame]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/75KfExzKuJg
note the specific way it sounds can still vary alot because soft tissue or just the way you blow air through it

[wind prairie]

it literally isn't. some scientists blew air through a replica parasaurolophus skull a while back to make this. Of course, it's not even accurate for that animal because it doesn't account for the meathttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtpSOpUDCb8

[topaz jolt]

how is that not accurate thoug

[scenic flame]

I don't understand what you're getting at

[wind prairie]

if you skinned a parasaurolophus down to the bone and it could somehow still function enough to breathe that's what it would sound like.
it also doesn't account for vocalizations. There is no voice in that sound it's air being blown through a skull

[topaz jolt]

wait its not from rex?

[wraith kindle]

Wait, why is the paras call in the Rex video?? Sounded exactly the same, maybe slightly different.

[gilded crystal]

Air being powered by human lungs at that

[wind prairie]

because the creator is ignorant

[tough parcel]

Or lying

[topaz jolt]

how does rex sound

[wind prairie]

literally no way to know

we don't know what para sounds like either

[topaz jolt]

sorry I just read up on what you said that it wasnt paras sound. sorry

[wind prairie]

I mean it was meant to be an emulation of a para sound, but it was too barebones (literally) to get a plausible sound. No matter the test we'd never know what its voice sounded like

[topaz jolt]

oh

[wraith kindle]

We have a better idea because it has that fancy crest, but even then, it’s all assumption.

I’m sure they can simulate the soft tissue, but without some lagerstatten levels of soft tissue preservation, we’ll never know the exact arrangement of soft tissue.

[wind prairie]

yes even if you were to simulate all the flesh of the animal, the best you could get is.. the sound of it breathing I think

[topaz jolt]

but it was in a rex video

[wind prairie]

bro... just because some goofball put it in his youtube short doesn't mean he's right

[wraith kindle]

I hear that, but it’s almost exactly the same, just changed a little. It even cuts off in the same way.

[scenic flame]

I don't think this is quite true, I 100% agree with the soft tissue and air capacity thing, but it's certainly better understood than 99% of dinosaurs, even if you only count the decently complete ones

[topaz jolt]

i know it was in the other video

what you dont get is i know that it was in the other video Im saying it was in the rex video but why say it is rex?

[wind prairie]

I mean yeah in a way I guess. Still blowing air through a skull didn't give us any real valuable knowledge

to me the sounds in that rex video sound exactly like the sounds from the para test. idk what you're saying. The creator of the video literally just took the sounds and said "guys this is what... t rex sounded like!!" because t rex is the big fan favorite and obviously all the "dinosaurs are really scary guys!" cornballs on the internet are going to try and make tyrannosaurus seem as otherworldly as possible

[halcyon cobalt]

because saying it’s the sound of T rex would get more views and likes than saying it’s the sound of parasaurolophus

[wraith kindle]

Because ‘Ooohh scary video for the likes’.

[wind prairie]

plenty of 12 year olds think of herbivorous dinosaurs as lower forms of life. They probably wouldn't care about parasaurolophus sounds, but if you lie and say they're t rex sounds...

[wraith kindle]

The tone is slightly different, but what’s telling to me is that they end in exactly the same way.

I doubt that about 12 year olds, but hey.

[wind prairie]

I mean yeah they might've edited it to be a bit deeper but it's still the same sound otherwise.

[topaz jolt]

what is the point

[wind prairie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcBoY_aEVj8&t=434s another thing, be careful about these "vocalization study" videos. They're called that but the creator is really just deepening the sounds of birds and other animals. They're fun sounds and I respect the creator for making them but it's not really a "study".

[hardy sentinel]

That's bloody golden

[wind prairie]

yeah the spinosaurus is literally just a pitched down loon haha

[wraith kindle]

Was that a seagull on the last part?

[wind prairie]

the meme has become so bad with t rex specifically I've actually seen "what t rex really sounded like" memes get fairly mainstream. You'll watch them and it'll just be some meme audio but pitched way down like "I'm on that good k*sh and alcohol"

[hardy sentinel]

Do we have any proof of Sauropods living in cold environments or would they immediately starve to death if not tiny

[stable sun]

There's no bipedal Sauropods

The largest basal Sauropodomorph was the unnamed one from Elliot though
https://sauroposeidon.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/wedel-and-yates-2011-wavp-a-diplodocus-sized-bipedal-basal-sauropodomorph-from-south-africa.pdf

[wind prairie]

not sure but at least the first few spino sounds are loons

[wraith kindle]

That sounds way too high pitched for something of that size, but then, it’s not impossible for something to produce higher pitched sounds than you might expect.

[wraith kindle]

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2021/dec/sauropod-dinosaurs-were-restricted-warmer-regions-earth

They were pretty much restricted to the warmer regions. It's plausible some migrated during warmer months, but we might be able to tell if they were year round residents or seasonal if they ever did show up in higher latitudes.

[strong bronze]

i have a dumb question that isn't exactly paleontology but idk where else to ask, so the Mesozoic was the age of dinosaurs, i thought mesozoic was when there was oversized bears, extinct elephnat species and sabertooth tigers etc, which period is that called im confused

[wraith kindle]

Cenozoic.

[strong bronze]

OH MY GOD IM SO FREAKING SRTYUPIIDDID

[wraith kindle]

More specifically, you're probably thinking more Pleistocene period.

[woeful falcon]

To expand further, we are currently still in the Cenozoic.

[strong bronze]

no i wasn't, i think i just only remembered the zoic part, i couldn't remember the first half

[light osprey]

That’s not entirely true, we do have sauropods in some demonstrably “temperate” environments

[wraith kindle]

Yeah that cause I was vaguely remembering a polar sauropod somewhere., maybe the Antarctic ones. The article does specify freezing climates.

[tough parcel]

Perhaps the Dongbeititan was merely lost…? The cold-blooded dinosaur would never survive the cold climates…

[light osprey]

And the continental Nemegt… no that was clearly tropical as well

[wraith kindle]

No, I'm thinking it was North American? Like Alaska or northern Canada or something.

[wind prairie]

all of the eras of the phanerozoic eon also end in -zoic. Paleozoic (early stuff), mesozoic (dinosaurs), cenozoic (mammals) specifically the time you see called the "ice age" is the very late cenozoic, the late pleistocene

[fluid inlet]

We own T. rex

[topaz jolt]

is there a site I can trust for good paleo info

[warped peak]

Reptile Evolution and/or Pterosaur Heresies

||This is a joke never trust either of these websites on anything, ever||

[fossil ingot]

Sarco and the best Caiman

[wraith kindle]

Looks like a heavy damage specialist compared to Sarco, makes sarco look like a fish eater.

[fossil ingot]

Puru had to eat a Giant Turtle so

When your food is this massive thing.
Bite hard comes in handy

[wraith kindle]

Is that even accurate? That's damn titanic. Could have been like, an extremely old individual or something.

[fossil ingot]

Its the largest specimen, on average they would had been smaller tbf

[tough parcel]

Just gonna say, while in broad sense old = larger size (I would hope a toddler is not larger than an adult), there's a certain point in all animals where growth plateaus and they do not grow significantly until death

[topaz jolt]

lol

[wary heath]

Bigger than archelon?

[fossil ingot]

I think?
Its kinda contested

[fossil ingot]

Yeah, worse is that Sarco Skull isn't even THAT thin
You simply can't compare it to Puru skull

[steady rock]

this is gonna be a very weird question but, would dinosaurs be lactosentolerant like many modern animals like cats?

they laughing with me not at me 😢 😢

[wraith kindle]

Probably not? Mammals are lactose intolerant as adult because the body stops producing the enzyme after a point? Not like they'd be drinking it in quantity for it to have an effect.

[stiff osprey]

that would probably make them *more * lactose intolerant than mammals, since they'd have had no contact with the protein at any stage of life

[wraith kindle]

There's still a chance that those who did eat mammals, they'd eat a lactating mammal? Those would probably have developed some degree of tolerance.

[drifting condor]

Is it actually true stegosaurus could potentially reach 10 tons?

[halcyon cobalt]

I’m pretty sure the max is like 8 tons

[drifting condor]

That means iggy is still bigger let's go

[iron halo]

what

[drifting condor]

Igaunadon could reach 8.8 tons right

[thorn grove]

technically but going by max sizes can be pretty iffy

[fossil ingot]

I still don't know where 8.8t Iggy came from

Like tmk Random's Iggy Skeletal gets to like 5.5-6 tons
Unless Iggy suddenly became Fat or a new specimen was found then idn

[wraith kindle]

Wikipedia article cites about half that.

[thorn grove]

Random just explained this yesterday it comes from https://utoronto.scholaris.ca/server/api/core/bitstreams/d600fdd7-8c6e-4324-b913-7e4fa45660e4/content on page 196

[fossil ingot]

😭
Ofc it had to be circunference

16 ton Iggy💀

[thorn grove]

ah allometry

[wraith kindle]

That doesn't seem right....

Meant to reply to the 16 ton part.

[fossil ingot]

Bro somehow is Shant Size now

[wraith kindle]

Or it's chonk like lurdu, which is also an iguanadontian.

[thorn grove]

iirc it's based on some vertebrae found in the 19th century and was assigned to iggy because it was one of the only dinosaurs at the time, idek if we still have the vertebrae or if scaling has just been done based on measurements from the time
wait nvm the paper claims the specimen has limb bones?

[fossil ingot]

Lurdu Suddenly became Obese
5.3t at 9.7m is Crazy(literally heavier than Sarco at equal lengths)
Iggy suddenly became Larger than African Elephants now

[thorn grove]

from what I've seen Hadrosauriformes often show a major discrepancy between allometric and volumetric scaling, so I'm not sure how accurate the 8.7 ton figure is likely to be

[fossil ingot]

Yeah....5.5-6t Range seems more reasonable to me lol

[wraith kindle]

I wonder if they're giving themselves a dose of common sense there, like, 'wait, does 16 tons seem right?'

[fossil ingot]

Its mostly what I have heard from Iggy and Iirc is what Random's Iggy scales too.

[fluid inlet]

Random the one that said 8tons

[fossil ingot]

We already know where 8.7t Iggy comes from

Is a Circunference Estimate which tends to ve Goofy
They argue Holotype(which should be smaller than Random's Skeletal btw) is 8.7 tons cause of Circunference
They also said Largest Iggy is 16 tons☠️.
Its a 2013 paper that atleast Imo I wouldn't Trust
Specially a Circunference estimate
They said its 8.7t cause in circunference is similar to that as Large African Elephants (Like Elephants and Iggy are built the same)

[stiff osprey]

you also get 8.8 t iguanodon if you isometrically scale the GDI up to the size of the largest fragmentary specimen, but I didn't expect the guy who asked me to be capable of doing that himself

[steady rock]

is iggy the largest iguantadontid?

[stiff osprey]

yes

[steady rock]

random i need your opinion, i remember someone telling me utah was able to hunt every creature in its formation besides a adult healthy cedrosaurus, do you think thats true? your smart

[tough parcel]

I was there and Utahraptor could only scavenge, it was so sad

[stiff osprey]

It's true I was the Utahraptor 😦

Anyway, a solo Utahraptor hunting the two turiasaurs or Iguanacolossus would be quite a stretch, but if it hunted in packs then sure

[steady rock]

does mobbing count as hunting in a pack?, basically just unorganized ganging up on ( like the mapus from planet dinosaur with the argentinasaurus )

[wraith kindle]

Iguanacolossus though…

[steady rock]

its name have colossus in it but its not very colossus next to iggy iggy who to biggy to be stressin

[fluid inlet]

Pnso Spinosaurus is on Amazon if anyone wants to catch it before it sells out

[thorn grove]

iirc Iguanacolossus isn't actually in Iguanodontidae

[steady rock]

https://tenor.com/view/stan-twitter-wow-gif-21853023

[wraith kindle]

Oh, ok

[thorn grove]

It's closely related ofc but from what I understand it's slightly outside of Hadrosauriformes, which is the group that includes both Iguanodontidae and Hadrosauroidea

[stiff osprey]

Iguanodontidae is basically dead tbh, most of its members aren't iguanodontids anymore just a grade of basal ornithopods

[steady rock]

i never knew Styracosterna existed

[fluid inlet]

Why did scale trees go extinct?

[stable sun]

8.7 t is from comparing circumference to normal estimates

[frigid delta]

i like this more than that truck rex sound
source: Prehistoric Planet

[frosty cedar]

Me when "dinosaurs couldn't roar" people come in:

[outer tusk]

@sudden wind

[frigid delta]

Rabies on Dinos?

[outer tusk]

Reptiles don't get rabies

[frigid delta]

a joke question turns to be a new fact for me
thx chicken

[frosty cedar]

Only mammals do?

[frosty cedar]

Nice.

[outer tusk]

Having rabies isn't nice

[sudden wind]

Did you give it lips in some ways?

[outer tusk]

No?

[steady rock]

Idk If this counts as AVA but would a swing from a stegosaurus's thagomizer damage the back/armor of a ankylosaur?

[steady smelt]

How Big is adult Alioramus?

[wraith kindle]

What’s AVA? Anyways, while they wouldn’t be contemporary, since the armor certainly evolved to stop piercing damage, the thagomizer would just bounce off.

[steady rock]

Animal vs animal

[velvet burrow]

Is it an immunological thing or due to low metabolism/body temperature?

[stable sun]

Qianzhousaurus was 7 m so likely somewhere around 7 m

[steady smelt]

Ty what abt Weight? Was It around 900kg?

[stable sun]

1.2 t

[steady smelt]

K ty

[umbral kite]

Why do some reptiles cover the teeth with lips but croc dont

[winter marsh]

because crocs arent lizards

[umbral kite]

but alligator do even if it only the bottom lip

[tough parcel]

It's easier to catch fish/move your head rapidly through the water without lips (which is why river dolphins also have no lips)

[open compass]

It has no lip

[steady rock]

Doesn't that mean it's likely spinosaurids didn't have lips?

[stiff osprey]

@fluid inlet told you they were making rex and dread

[drowsy narwhal]

https://youtu.be/ZoU3ki9MK-Q Just had this recommended to me as “100% proof dinosaurs aren’t real…like Pokemon.”

pack it up yall

[cloud dagger]

The best thing to do is to click ”don’t recommend this again” and ignore the video

[fluid inlet]

Woolly mammoth too , is that Deinosuchus too?

[stiff osprey]

looks like deino, the bottom row is extant animals

[thorn grove]

Ah I remember when Eric Dubay was a leading figure in the flat earth movement, didn't realize he was still making videos

Real?

[ancient crystal]

If only youtube would actually listen to that

[fluid inlet]

lol the guy that originally did the art got pissed about the caption

[thorn grove]

lmao fair

[fluid inlet]

https://x.com/dragonsofwales/status/1878537352320078098?s=46

DragonsofWales 🇪🇺🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 (@DragonsofWales) on X

Takes my works, doesn’t give credit, sticks childish caption on it… get 10x more likes than my original. Cool. Totally cool.

Twitter · Jan 12, 2025, 8:19 PM

[steady rock]

what was archelons diet? ik sea turtle species can very heavily so im interested

[sterile trail]

Id say prehistoric jellyfish and ammonites

[tacit pine]

lmaoo

[tacit pine]

LOL 💀

[lavish frigate]

Now look, I’ll debate a lot of people, YEC, conspiracy types, etc.

But some people aren’t worth debating 💀

[wary heath]

Bro this guy

[fluid inlet]

Found this little fella outside my front door I think he is hurt his right eye looks a little messed up , wonder what I should do with him

[marble swallow]

You called?

[halcyon cobalt]

I’m not an expert on the matter, but we know that the thagomiser was capable of piercing through bone so I don’t see why it would stab inbetween the osteoderms / outright break them

[leaden vigil]

Ive heard the way Carch looks changed a lot semi recently? Anyone have an example?

[fossil ingot]

Duck appreciatin Post

[orchid rain]

Here is a theory: most dinosaurs have lips

[lavish frigate]

That’s just a fact

Unless they have a beak they usually have lips

[orchid rain]

Spinosaurus 🤦

[halcyon cobalt]

spinosaurs are an oddity

them not having lips is semi debatable though tmk

[orchid rain]

I know it Is my friends favourite dinosaur

[leaden vigil]

Thank ya very much o7

[orchid rain]

I personally don’t think spinosaurus don’t have lips

[outer tusk]

Spinosaurus teeth are too spread out to allow lips to form

[fluid inlet]

Stop it skippy

[orchid rain]

K

[fluid inlet]

What’s the verdict on this creature ? https://x.com/theeverett1107/status/1798028483467370960?s=46

Everett Mancke (@theeverett1107) on X

LH PV18, Raptorex kriegsteini

Twitter · Jun 4, 2024, 4:26 PM

[wind prairie]

distinct from tarbosaurus but it is still just a baby

[steady rock]

Was paleoloxodon the only terrestrial mammal reaching 10 tons?

[wary heath]

Paraceratherium was also capable of reaching over 10 tons.

[steady rock]

Anyone reaching 20 tons?

[wraith kindle]

You beat me to it.

@steady rock Paraceratherium (I was looking for indricotheriun initially as that’s what came to mind) has an upper estimate of 20 tons.

[white inlet]

We should get priconodon ingame 3x larger then ano w mod

[frosty cedar]

We don't know, but I prefer both depictions. Crocs don't have lips because they spend huge amounts of time in water, which moisturizes their teeth and cleans them, so they don't need lips anyway.

Lets take spinosaurids like sucho or bary for less confusion and clear understanding. They probably didn't go in water as much as crocs, so it's unlikely their lips completely seized to exist. Besides, every other theropod has lips. So it wouldn't be a stretch to say that spino also had lips. I also heard that there are some weird lines/ridges on the teeth, by which we can determine that animals like rex or, say, carch had lips and those same things were found in spinosaurid teeth.

Need to look this up, but I'm pretty sure one of the main hypothesis of theropods having lips is something to do with their teeth.

[frosty cedar]

which moisturizes their teeth and cleans them, so they don't need lips anyway
And yeah, like Gualicho said, to also catch prey easily.

[frosty cedar]

Guys, it's over. Shut down this channel.

[frosty cedar]

What's this?

[fluid inlet]

Haolonggood models

[frosty cedar]

Ohh, it's figures. I see.

[frosty cedar]

Right, brittle enamel that requires constant moistening.

[sharp dragon]

Thank you.

[unkempt roost]

On a scale of 1-10, how accurate is my anomalocaris?

Asking this because i feel like i'm missing something...

[stiff osprey]

the little flappy things on the sides should be a lot more numerous and closer together

That said i wouldn't really judge the accuracy of a lego model especially one with few pieces

[warped peak]

Paraceratherium, Zygolophodon, Deinotherium, supposedly a large specimen of Hilarcotherium was close, an unnamed specimen of Dzungariotherium is hitting Paraceratherium level sizes

[steady rock]

What's a zyglophodon, hliarcotherium and dzungariotherium? I'm gonna assume elephants?

[warped peak]

Zygolophodon is the largest Mastodon and is the third largest terrestrial mammal behind Paracer and Paleo

Hilarcotherium is an astropothere IIRC, looks like a fat elephant pig

Dzungariotherium is a relative of Paracer

[steady rock]

Do you think any terrestrial mammal was exceeding that or is the mammal body unable to handle all that? ( on land)

[warped peak]

If Mastodons, Rhinos, and Mammoths all had the same rough size limit, it seems logical to assume that's around the size limit for a terrestrial mammal

[steady rock]

I don't wanna sound dumb but what's the difference between mastodons and mammoths? Aren't they both elephants?

[warped peak]

Okay so Mastodon and Mammoths are both in the same order as elephants

However there's a few key differences

• Mammoths have a big head bulge Mastodon lack
• Mastodon are better suited for grinding down heavy duty vegetation like Pinecones and similar, due to their teeth they are named after
• Mastodon also have tusks on their mandible (usually looking like Zygolophodon in the first picture, some were longer like Stegotetrabelodon in the second picture)
• Mastodon had much less curved tusks as a whole

[compact leaf]

depends on how far up you want to class elephants too, they’re members of different families though (mastodon are mammutidae, mammoths are elephantids)

[warped peak]

The two largest Proboscideans for reference, one a Mammoth, one a Mastodon

[compact leaf]

I wouldn’t call palaeoloxodon a mammoth

[stable sun]

Same

[warped peak]

I would argue that Mammoth and Elephantid tend to be used interchangeably

[compact leaf]

I haven’t personally seen that, if all elephantids are mammoths then every modern elephant is a mammoth

[warped peak]

But that's fair. Mammoth is technically only a single genus

Honestly I'd say that's a fair statement, but only to make a point about the relationship of elephants and mammoths

[compact leaf]

the way I typically see it is mammoths are exclusively members of the genus mammuthus, but yeah it shouldn’t be understated how close they are to each other

[warped peak]

I hate how technically it would make more sense to refer to Mastodons as Mammoths as they're under the clade Mammutidae and stop referring to Mammothus as Mammoth

[umbral kite]

im trying to draw a tarbo but onyl have a trex reference so wat the difference

[hardy sentinel]

Little paleontology meme I made for those who know (can't post in PoT memes because it isn't PoT related

[warped peak]

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0311096

Carch update

[scenic flame]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrOIczcR6Ww - Ceratosaurus

we also have Carcharodontosauriformes now as a clade including Carcharodontosauridae and Metricanthosauridae

[glass herald]

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10914-024-09743-2

[fluid inlet]

The hell is a Tameryraptor

[tranquil quartz]

peak

[tacit pine]

Carcha has a horn now?

[stiff osprey]

horn guy is demonstrably not carcha

[fluid inlet]

New species bud

What are the size estimations on Tameryraptor

Wait we naming new dinosaurs with lost material and only photos?

[stiff osprey]

world's only kallamedu giant fan about to cook

[opaque kayak]

Deinosuchus hatcheri and Shonisaurus popularis

[fluid inlet]

Lmao

[astral spindle]

Now that's interesting

[astral spindle]

Well, Crest actually

[tacit pine]

Well it looks kinda cool

[sterile trail]

Tameryraptor is a dope ass name

[steady rock]

do you guys think dinosaurs could see glass?

[umbral kite]

i Drew t.bataar using this reference

[orchid rain]

That’s good, I cannot draw at all.

[steady rock]

@fluid inlet may i ask why the skull reaction? its a valid question seeing how modern birds cant see glass

[fluid inlet]

I’ve seen humans run into glass so I don’t think it’s just a bird thing. Also it’s not something that dinosaurs would have had to deal with. No big glass buildings or doors or windows in the Mesozoic

[steady rock]

i know, its just fun to thinka bout, also, humans can see glass, birds cant

[fluid inlet]

Maybe

[stiff osprey]

humans can't see glass any better than birds can, unless the glass is really dirty. there's plenty of videos of toddlers running into glass doors

toddlers don't have worse vision than adult humans, the adults simply learn that when the air has a weird sheen to it that means you cannot go through. No one told the birds that fact

[frigid delta]

is the glass doors okay?

[stiff osprey]

no they went extinct 20 years ago from toddler overhunting

[outer tusk]

use Joan's

[frigid delta]

welcome Tameryraptor
shall you be the largest Raptor to ever lived, surpassing the other Raptors
goodbye Utahraptor/Gigantoraptor, Hello Tameryraptor

[umbral kite]

up dated the skull

[outer tusk]

the lower jaw seems to be thicker than the upper jaw

[outer tusk]

hands should be much smaller as well

[hallow spear]

(and adults)

[umbral kite]

yes u can it just depend on the tint or glare in the sun

[umbral kite]

carch?

[lofty creek]

literally carch

[tough parcel]

(It's not)

So it turns out we have a 1 min slow mode jfc, but basically it's the Carch material from Stromer renamed to Tameryraptor markgrafi

[outer tusk]

Tamreyraptor

[umbral kite]

how is it a raptor

[outer tusk]

Because raptor means thief

[umbral kite]

Wat this large at max 23 mph running thing stole thing at best it stole food from other large theropod at best

[distant mauve]

It doesn't mean it's a raptor it's just part of its name. Like fukuiraptor who is a megaraptorian

[tough parcel]

You were correct without the i

[stable sun]

Megaraptor, Brontoraptor

[umbral kite]

this at less some wat look to a raptor but tameryraptor is off like if u should the fukuiraptor to some one it could pass as a raptor

[stable sun]

Megaraptor is a 1.5 t giant-armed Tyrannosauroid, Brontoraptor is a 2 tonne Megalosaurid

[sullen cairn]

the mighty dromaeosaur-adjacent sinraptor and siamraptor

[distant mauve]

Neither are its just a part of the name such as basilosaurus means king lizard.. which it is a whale names don't necessarily make sense although I don't know what the full meaning of Tamreyraptors name is

[stable sun]

Indosuchus raptorius

Megaraptora has Fujuirator, Aoniraptor, Megaraptor, Murusraptor and Orkoraptor

[umbral kite]

this are still are still raptor

[stable sun]

They're literally not Dromaeosaurids though how are they Raptor

[stable sun]

Not every dinosaur with Raptor in name is a Megaraptoran though.

Megaraptorans are definitely not Dromaeosaurids, neither are Brontoraptor, Siamraptor, Sinraptor, Venetoraptor or Eoraptor

[woven wigeon]

raptor is a dubious term used to described many avian and non avian dinosaur famlies it's that simple

[sterile trail]

Ah, I see the name of a certain "Dromaeosaurid" that doesn't exist anymore

cough cough Dakotaraptor cough cough

[tough parcel]

Daconcaraptor

[sterile trail]

He's a turtle lol

[umbral kite]

i just learned that megaraptors are maip related

[tough parcel]

You put one turtle bone in your holotype and that's all that is remembered

[umbral kite]

sad day

[umbral kite]

also tarbo better than torvo

[stable sun]

please explain the reasoning behind your opinion

[severe field]

brick better than orange

[warped peak]

I agree tbh but it has no relation to raptors

[umbral kite]

A torvo is 30 feet (9 meters) long a tarbo is 33 ft) long

[warped peak]

The larger Torvo specimens reached 12m roughly

[umbral kite]

tarbo beat that by .5 meter or 6 feet

[warped peak]

Tarbo was not 48 feet long

[umbral kite]

it 33-39 feet long or 10 to 12.5 meters

[warped peak]

Tarbo by the largest estimates is 11 meters

But length shouldn't be how you determine whether an animal is "better"

[umbral kite]

and the bite force is around 4-5 tons torvo all i got was 10,000 pound not the best research

[warped peak]

I don't think I've seen any good bite estimates for Torvo before

[outer tusk]

Torvosaurus is literally 200kg below Tarbosaurus using tanneri and 600kg using gurneyi

torvosaurus is 11.1-11.5m while tarbosaurus is 10.9m

[umbral kite]

my eyes are terrible and i cant see the key or dino right but 😅

[fossil ingot]

Both are peak either way

[fossil ingot]

Tarbo's Bite Force is 24KN which is like 2.4 tons tmk

[fossil ingot]

Same, its likely similar to that of Acro that is around 16KN

[umbral kite]

yea but im just dinoist

[fossil ingot]

They are both Chunks

Carcha still Peak

[halcyon cobalt]

how didn’t you know this? maip is known as the largest megaraptoran

[fluid inlet]

Was good to see the cousins

[fluid inlet]

Edmarka solos

[stable sun]

Tarbosaurus largest is about 11 m, Torvosaurus about 11.5 for the "Edmarka" specimen

[orchid rain]

About as big as a tyrannosaurus

[warped peak]

About as long as Tyrannosaurus. Rex had a lot more weight on em

[umbral kite]

I dont knew how accurate it is

[drifting condor]

What is the biggest stegosaurid and how big was it?

[thorn grove]

Stegosaurus appears to have maxed out around 8 tons

[umbral kite]

stegosaurus ungulatus or apex

[drifting condor]

Also do we do who would in a fight questions here?

[thorn grove]

we can

[thorn grove]

I don't remember which species the large specimen belongs to, though it wasn't apex

[orchid rain]

Of course, I forgot

[drifting condor]

So who would win styracosaurus or daspletosaurus?

I'm guessing dasp is winning

[thorn grove]

probably dasp usually, but styraco is still dangerous

[fossil ingot]

Stenops
Apex is just the name of a specimen and Ungulatus is kinda dubious

[fossil ingot]

Depends the Dasp species and also Styra Species but likely Dasp

[fossil ingot]

Stegosaurus Stenops largest specimen is 8 tons.

Largest Stego, Dacen and Kentro

[tough parcel]

Kentro when shortie

[drifting condor]

Amargarsaurus vs carnotaurus also what's the biggest valid amargasaurus specimen?

[fossil ingot]

Amarga is Bigger, would it win....
Idk lol

I think you can get Amarga Bigger?
Idk
Its def Heavier than Carno's 1.8 tons at 7.8m
Then again, Carno has weapons

[drifting condor]

By amount of weapons or strength of weapons?

[fossil ingot]

Amarga's Main Weapon vs Carno is its Weight/Size tbf

[halcyon cobalt]

you are forgetting amargasaur’s homing spine missiles

[drifting condor]

Yeah

[velvet burrow]

Raptor is just a word, you could very well call a sauropod Dendroraptor or something like that

A rule for biology is that name meanings or phonetics don't matter at all and should just be ignored

[drifting condor]

So I did some work the biggest amargarsaurus specimen is only 3 tons?

[fossil ingot]

Around that yeah

[hallow spear]

Apex is probably ungulatus and ungulatus is probably valid, but until any paper comes out just take it with some salt

[fossil ingot]

W

[tough parcel]

Sorry bud, it's a new species called Stegosaurus apex now, the diagnostic feature being plaster and very large size

[hallow spear]

Another thing is stego sucks, no reference is good until apex is described 😔

[outer tusk]

Amargasaurus is closer to 4.2 tonnes

[hallow spear]

Also Apex isn’t the largest stegosaurus(or stegosaur)

[native kindle]

What is the largest of em then?

[hallow spear]

The largest stegosaur is Stego and Dacent, Apex is in the top 10 largest Stego specimens though & it is the largest most complete one tho

[drifting condor]

Aww 4.2 tons

Also what do you guys the modern counterpart of stegosaurus is

[compact leaf]

unironically Brian Curtice is on a crusade to kill at least one genus on the basis of diagnostic features being plaster, he revealed this on facebook of all places

[outer tusk]

Amargasaurus is literally known from one specimen that being the holotype, thought that's ignoring amargatitanis, a sauropod from the same formation as amargasaurus and most definitely synonymous with it

[hallow spear]

There isn’t one

[drifting condor]

Yeah can't think of something that's a herbivore and uses it's tail to attack

[hallow spear]

Imo shouldn’t force an animal to have a modern counterpart it’s dumb

[fluid inlet]

Anklyo , stegosaurus , Shunosaurus need anymore help lil bro

[tough parcel]

TIL Ankylosaurus, Stegosaurus, and Shunosaurus are still alive in the modern day

[fluid inlet]

Komodo dragon literally

[drifting condor]

No like Modern

[warped peak]

Mammal tails tend to suck, but I guess manatees (?)

[tough parcel]

TIL Komodo dragons are herbivorous

[fluid inlet]

Ok ngl yall killed me

[drifting condor]

Igaunas actually kinda fits a little

[drifting condor]

Especially the green igauna

Porcupines and pangolins actually fit pretty well

[stark herald]

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0311096 Re-evaluation of the Bahariya Formation carcharodontosaurid (Dinosauria: Theropoda) and its implications for allosauroid phylogeny [new taxa Tameryraptor markgrafi gen. et s

[compact leaf]

except they’re non megafauna and don’t deal with also megafaunal predators of similar or lesser mass

[sterile trail]

Guys i think Pteranodon is my favorite dinosaur ||/j||

[halcyon cobalt]

thanks science you put the /j!! I was about to crash out 😅😅

[stable sun]

This is google

[river plinth]

The is the most developed stegosaurus to and complete

[astral spindle]

Isn't Ungulatus 8.8 tonnes?

[river plinth]

50/50 kinda like rex and trike

[astral spindle]

Dasp is still heavier at 3.2 tonnss

[fluid inlet]

It was a honor to be in the same environment as acrocanthosaurus , he was biggggg

[runic rover]

I herd of a lot of people complaining about "Meraxes", "Thanos" and "Gremlin" but I'm much more annoyed by seeing that a fairly large carcharodontosaurid from Egypt ends in "raptor"?
I get that "raptor" isn't exclusive to dromaeosaurids, but it's so damn uncreative, repetitive and just looks like they choose one adjective and draft a name from a hat that only has "venator", "raptor" and "suchus", and whatever happens happens.
/Rant

[honest cobalt]

This is terrifying

[fluid inlet]

It was awesome ! I had to come back to him twice, the diplodocus was cool too but I didn’t like its stance 😭 we also got a Gorgosaurus and you can see it’s cancer on its chest and its tumor it head in its brain.

[honest cobalt]

https://tenor.com/view/worried-scared-oh-no-stop-it-fearful-gif-12534009

[honest cobalt]

Oh wow! The gorgo sounds interesting!

[runic rover]

Oh no poor Ruth 😭❤️ precious "little" thing

[fluid inlet]

I forgot to take pics of the Gorgosaurus 🤦🏽‍♂️ the best 3 for me was the 1. Acrocanthosaurus, 2. Quetz & 3 Triceratops

[high sequoia]

I can’t wait till I get to collage so I can actually start doing paleontology things😭

[honest cobalt]

I know you love your trikes!

I love carchs! Acro looks really big!

[high sequoia]

Oh yeah what’s the whole dinosaur highway thing about? I saw a thing on google about it but didn’t read it

[fluid inlet]

Triceratops skin and triceratops himself

[quasi token]

was wondering what's up with Acrophyseter robustus specifically having oversized reconstructions? when I went through the original description paper A.robustus seems to have a skull size far smaller than the meter or so skulls in these recons (depending on the angle, I got slightly inconsistent results but none were longer than 90 cm)- even managed to get tosha's recon basically lined perfectly with one of the restorations in said original paper, but the scaling is inconsistent
(no hate to these recons btw, they're very well done and I don't have any issues with the proportions or anything, just the size being a bit odd)

[fluid inlet]

Some of you might recognize this fella here

[quasi token]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/307936921_Macroraptorial_sperm_whales_Cetacea_Odontoceti_Physeteroidea_from_the_Miocene_of_Peru original paper if you're intrested, the recon I lined up was from figure 19 (middle reconstruction)

[pastel yarrow]

Rip saurophaganax

[indigo cradle]

Mood

[snow python]

How accurate is PNSO Tyrannotitan? I'm tempted to buy it

[fluid inlet]

As long as you don’t mind it having to have a support stance I’d say go for it!

[stable sun]

Raptor on a big Carch isn't bad it's just that they picked a name that isn't very good

I don't see people complaining about Megaraptor, Fukuiraptor, Orkoraptor, Murusraptor, Aoniraptor, Brontoraptor, Siamraptor or Sinraptor.

[open compass]

Also gigantoraptor

[snow python]

Which PNSO big carch is more accurate: Carchar, Giga, Meraxes, Mapu, Acro or Tyrannotitan?

[frigid delta]

"ty Random" we say in union

[frigid delta]

get those lipless figurines out of my sight asap, it disgust me /extremely srs

[indigo cradle]

What was the tiny blue dinosaur on prehistoric planet? I thought it was fukuisaurus but apparently I'm wrong

[halcyon cobalt]

zalmoxes? Which episode r u talking about

[indigo cradle]

Yea! Zalmoxes makes sense
(The one that gets stuck out on the water)

[frigid delta]

Island
S2E1

[indigo cradle]

Lol thanks gorilla

[runic rover]

They're very good quality, I brought Titan to celebrate Titan's debut on PoT

[frigid delta]

Random's updated Carcha?

[fossil ingot]

Cause of the new guy yes

You have two ways to reconstruct Carcha now.

1. With the New Guy
2. With TTT
   Both are equally valid/good tmk

[hardy sentinel]

Paleontologist: "Bro, Davis, you gotta see this new fossil I found"
Davis: "Say that again?"

[umbral kite]

For the drawing i made i had a hard time figuring out the skin so wat would it look like

[steady rock]

What

[hardy sentinel]

What

[warped peak]

Hard time, I believe

[hallow spear]

This version is just based on temu carch too

The neotype clades more derived than the temu carch I’m pretty sure

[loud wing]

Is densely feathered pachyrhino (because living in cold environments) serious

[outer tusk]

No it's not serious because why would it need to be feathered

[hallow spear]

It living in cold environments doesn’t necessarily mean feathers either

[loud wing]

I see it reconstructed with feathers often
Argument is "cold environment".

[outer tusk]

^

[steady rock]

Well, how Cold was pachyrhinos environment really?

[outer tusk]

The environment wasn't that cold to the point that feathers would suddenly appear in only on taxon such as Pachyrhinosaurus

[steady rock]

( give me a modern location of what it's comparable too )

[light osprey]

I would say we don’t have enough information to constrain the degree of coldness experienced in the Prince creek. A lot of the temperature estimates were derived from a ‘latitudinal clamp derived estimate’ which has a few problems

[warped peak]

What we can say for sure is it was indeed a temperature