paleontology

[zinc solstice]

Is it possible that baby Diadectes and baby other Non amniote Reptiliomorphs had gills

[bright veldt]

The big ones I personally take note of as being egregious are bars, thal, and achillo. The rest are either passable or have reasons for being so that are kinda out of their control (sarco and eotrike).

[blazing basalt]

Yeah I agree

[bright veldt]

Although I personally think Das and Allo should switch sizes. They are very uncanny when next to one another right now.

[zinc solstice]

Or did Diadectes lay eggs on land in moist areas like Some Salamanders do

[warped peak]

To be fair, Achillo would be a nightmare with a smaller hitbox

I mean it already is tbf

A single Achillo can reliably 1v1 almost any apex with Pounce and Shred

[bright veldt]

You could apply the same logic to literally any playable. Just account for basics and it's fine. There was no reason for its size. It could've been pachy-sized and it still would've easily been distinguishable from its underlings.

[warped peak]

True. But imagine Cruel Swipe and Shred on something the size of Pachy

[west drum]

Hey chat are we still mad at Iggy

[zinc solstice]

Did Bystrowiana and Chroniosuchians Lay eggs in the water like most modern amphibians (I know they are reptiliomorphs and are closer related to Quails and Humans) if so did baby Bystrowiana and baby Chroniosuchians in general have gills?

If we don't really know, Was it likely or unlikely they laid eggs in water and that their young had gills

And do we even know how big Dromotectum was

But actually was it likely or unlikely for Chroniosuchians to lay eggs in the water and for their young to have gills

[flat pond]

Oh so more according to this image?

[blazing basalt]

For TMP yeah

[flat pond]

Ah interesting, though this is the species A. inceptus but still I guess in game Ano is responsible.

Still though I wouldn’t be surprised if the devs did decide to do a TLC for Ano since Iggy was one that I wasn’t expecting considering that it was pretty solid before the TLC announcement.

[tranquil quartz]

Achillo is not soloing apexes with shred

[onyx sedge]

[jagged trellis]

a single achillo cannot reliably do that, anyways it could be abit smaller but otherwise its fine

[gentle vessel]

How accurate is the iggy tlc?

[sullen cairn]

TMP 1997.59.1 is slightly larger than TMP 1997.132.1 as well

[gentle vessel]

Nvm I scrolled trough chat a bit

[polar scroll]

idk

[sullen cairn]

now saying that cisio's still seems oversized and i'm pretty sure 5m was always the accepted length for ano regardless

[compact leaf]

can you throw pachy in there for me, I want to see something

[warped peak]

Someone doesn't know how terrifying 180 DPS is

[compact leaf]

gobbless

[bright veldt]

I've always felt iggy was perfectly fine before and now it's even better so.

[sullen cairn]

idk if/where amnh 8530's been stated to be immature but here's the relevant measurements
granted i think this was more a case of that one drawing being small cause neither seems much larger than gat's skeletal

97.132.1 being inceptus and 97.59.1 being lambei

[onyx sedge]

I'm sorry but wdym?

[light osprey]

amnh 5266 is the once Coombs said was immature

[hallow spear]

The plates/spikes and vert count are wrong, potentially scaling (I’m not entirely sure) I paid for the skeletal to be done and maybe in the future it will be updated. But rn I would not say there are any good wuerho skeletals because it may be possible that the specimen is a chimera of a young individual (the humerus) as it does not match ANY known proportions not even close to any,

It’s difficult to say specifically but the 2 wuerho skeletals that do exist don’t overlap very well, there is a lot that we don’t know about wuerho

[onyx sedge]

Ah rip, bro looked so good

[onyx sedge]

Corgi stego

[hallow spear]

Stegosaur skeletals all have issues in one way or another other 😔

[compact leaf]

does wuerho even clade consistently?

[hallow spear]

W. homheni does (supposedly) with either Hesperosaurus or Stenops

W. ordosensis seems to clade better with dacentrurine taxa

[compact leaf]

that’s grody

[hallow spear]

Stegosaurs are stupid. :( Hesperosaurus is best preserved with the best literature and sampling of well documented specimens

[compact leaf]

why does such an inherently cool group have to be such disgusting animals

and who even knows what the late cretaceous ones were doing

[hallow spear]

It seems to be around 4m, footprint estimating, Iirc I measured it at like 22.7cm

[light osprey]

I’m sure all three of them were especially remarkable

[compact leaf]

I want to draw it but the only other cretaceous asian stegosaurs are crap

[light osprey]

The Dravidosaurus skeletal is upon us

[compact leaf]

I don’t have the patience to make skeletals but I can make a passable doodle of a made up stegosaur

[flat pond]

A shame really, considering that stegosaurs are a very popular group.

[storm heron]

This is an interesting recon of it.

[limpid kestrel]

Yall is the miragia not being a valid species anymore true?

[bright veldt]

I do feel like there's potential for it to come back (tmk there's some "Miragaia" material still being described) but the paper that killed it had a good enough reason to.

[limpid kestrel]

Hmm I see I wonder wat Alderon thinks of it

[bright veldt]

Probably nothing. Laten hasn't been valid for 3 years but they haven't changed that.

[limpid kestrel]

Technically couldn’t they just rename it to a similar species and change nothing another acctual dino

Like dacenturus

[bright veldt]

They could yeah.

[limpid kestrel]

I doubt they would tho tbf

[fluid inlet]

they shouldn't its their game if they dont want to they don't have to

[sly viper]

Chat I'm getting conflicting results by Google it's says argentinosaurus is 70 feet but also 31 feet??? I'm more inclined to believe the 70 feet one

I'm so confused

[bright veldt]

Argentinosaurus is around 34 meters long, or over 110 feet.

[onyx sedge]

Google is so weird 😭

[sly viper]

Guys what's the bite force of the ichthotitan

[sly viper]

Thank you so much I was really confused what about height?

[bright veldt]

That greatly depends on posture which can vary in sauropods. Also we have no way to estimate ichthyotitan's bite force given its only scraps of bone right now.

[sly viper]

What would your estimate be?

[tough parcel]

Considering this is all we have of the head?

At least 2

[bright veldt]

I wouldn't give it one. Cause why would I? There's no way to get an answer.

[sly viper]

Ah got it but is 200k psi crazy or nah?

[bright veldt]

Given that's like 100 tons yeah that's not happening. No living thing has a bite force even close to that. Keep in mind the greatest bite force estimate I've ever seen is 50 tons for megalodon and that's probably questionable too.

[sly viper]

Wait how much does the Meg weigh?

[tough parcel]

Why? Ichthyotitan is nearing the estimated adult size and considering the skull is nowhere near as robust as a Megalodon’s, I doubt it’s biting near 50

[sly viper]

Was the ichthytitan a relatively new fossil?

[bright veldt]

Megalodon's size varies on the method used, but the current size range for adults is from 16 meters and 45 tons to 23 meters and 140 tons.

[sly viper]

Hmm ok

[tough parcel]

I fail to see the relevance

[sly viper]

I'm just gonna use this for palaeontology related questions google is very inaccurate

[bright veldt]

Yeah it's really not. At minimum google scholar would be better given that would at least give you actual papers about the topic in question (if you can read the papers which I can understand is difficult for those that aren't familiar with them).

[sly viper]

Is a bite force of 23 tonnes for an ichthyotitan absurd or is it fairly accurate

[white matrix]

anyone able to find valid zhuchengtyrannus skeletals? all I got is this and it's only the skull

[bright veldt]

Again, we have no way of knowing. Trying to give it a number is nonsense. Also, just to put it into perspective, keep in mind that anything over 2 tons is off the table for the vast majority of animals. The only animals we have evidence of surpassing that are giant theropods, crocodilians, and pliosaurs. Maybe some whales, ichthyosaurs, and sharks too.

[sly viper]

Hmm alright

[bright veldt]

This is the best you're going to get really. The issue with zhucheng is that it's unclear if it's closer to tarbo or rex, cause it's just a partial jaw, and because of that (and other unpublished fragmentary remains). Zhu's size is all over the place. Estimates range from das-sized to comparable to T. rex.

[white matrix]

also what do you think the skull in this photo is, do you think it belonged to zhuchengtyrannus?

[bright veldt]

Who knows. Never seen it before and multiple large tyrannosaurs coexisting has happened (In Nemegt, right now we have Alio and Tarbo, but there's probably at least 2 more that we know are there but aren't named yet)

[sly viper]

From the view that the photo is at its hard to tell but it looks fairly accurate

[white matrix]

the bonebed was the same one that contained multiple shantungosaurus

[sullen cairn]

zhucheng's bonebed also has a maxillary morph more akin to tarbosaurus

[bright veldt]

In that case I wouldn't be surprised if it is but who knows really

[sullen cairn]

there's franoys' which is like the same size

[sly viper]

The pretty sure they only coexisted because of the size difference

[white matrix]

the amount of fossils that are yet to be described 😔

[bright veldt]

Multiple large predators coexisting is nothing new. Hello Morrison formation.

[sullen cairn]

gorgosaurus and daspletosaurus are comparable in size in the judithian

[white matrix]

some old rich dude probably has like an entire skeleton in his property and isn't letting any scientist in 😔

[sly viper]

Apex stego lore

[sly viper]

I'm pretty sure they had different prey and usually stayed out of eachothers way

[tough parcel]

Yes that’s…how it works? Even then, not guaranteed (lions and hyenas)

[bright veldt]

Healthy ecosystems can maintain multiple top order carnivores. Reminder that just 10k+ years ago we had this in the western US

[sullen cairn]

actually on this note i'm impressed at how every single depiction of daspletosaurus and gorgosaurus manages to make them the exact same color

[tough parcel]

The influence of Lancian has spread far…maybe it is time I break this mold………….

[sullen cairn]

we got the coolest theropod depiction in recorded history in 2013 and then it turned into varying shades of brown

[storm heron]

Daspletosaurus and Gorgosaurus is a fun and interesting topic, two similar sized carnivores co-existing with each other.

[blissful bison]

it looks like a tremor graboid

[frigid delta]

laughs in Carnivores Iggy

[plucky basin]

laughs in Dino Crisis Giga

[zinc solstice]

Was Yacarerani Herbivorous or Omnivorous

[white matrix]

why is amarg so fat in game

chonky

[tulip gyro]

sigma rizz

[onyx sedge]

[tulip dove]

Fairly wide animal irl too

[twin tapir]

I reject your brown, for I know blue is true

[ivory obsidian]

Does anyone happen to know which specimen the in game Allosaurus is based off of

[fossil ingot]

Size wise mf is Sauro
For how it looks then idk

[velvet burrow]

I believe this was already talked about but what are the most energy expensive colors?

[ivory obsidian]

Ik that's why I wanted to know which specimen they based the size off of

[woeful falcon]

It doesn't seem to be based off of any specific allo in particular. Many PoT creatures are upscaled from their largest specimens

Or upscaled to absurd amounts. And others are only upscaled a smidge or not at all

[lofty creek]

a human-made landscape
lol
but Zhucheng does have some cousins in its place

[fossil ingot]

Since Allo is basically Sauro size, its size seems to be based on "Fenris"
Ignore "Leviathan" PLS
But POT Allo doesn't seem to be based on a Allosaurus specimen in specific
And Sauro≠Allo
So they simply made an average allo design wise and upsized it to Sauro size

[woeful falcon]

I think y'all are reading too much into it. "Fenris" and "Leviathan" didn't even have names let alone references when PoT Allo got upscaled. Which, on that note, PoT allo's size wasn't always what it is now. As I see it, it doesn't seem to follow any particular specimen for appearance or scaling. They made it that big just cus. My theory is for its gameplay, needs to be able to grab things. They made it bigger so it doesn't look bad while doing that.

[warped peak]

I mean tbh it's still a fine playable, just makes it on the bigger end of Allosaurs

Accurate sized Allo would be disappointing to a lot of people

[tardy trout]

didnt know a sticknodes animator was here :sigma

[ivory obsidian]

Ah thank you

[zinc barn]

Hola guys! what's the topic?

[coral dragon]

honestly i find it annoying when people praise prehistoric planet like its the gospel or smthn

[zinc barn]

Understand

[river plinth]

They had large front legs

That's literally the same

And keeps the frill thank god but they could tone down on the nose horn

No it's more accurate ppl are just use to seeing designs based on other hadrosaur or jw dominion iguanodon 💀😭

What I'm saying that this might got a whole rooster chin and crocodile scutes

They literally look the same except they don't have godzilla spines and a tumor on its chin old iggy design was worse com on yall 😭

They fixed the toes

[woeful falcon]

They know lol. Was already discussed

[zinc solstice]

Would a Bissekty giant dromaeosaur (might be Ulughbegsaurus if they are the same I don't know) be Possibly likely accurate with it only having feathers on its hide, possibly a small amount the tip of the tail and some (maybe a tiny amount) on the arms as Most theropods that reach that size in that type of habitat usually tend to lose most or sometimes all of their feathers

[torn spoke]

Spinosaurus Aegypticus tooth.

[final gulch]

i love these

[plucky basin]

what would be Smok's suborder and infraorder?

[velvet burrow]

Is there something about the ankylosaur remains from Bajo de la Carpa?

[plucky basin]

i have been waiting over an hour, someone please respond.

[iron halo]

What if we don’t know either

[outer tusk]

Don't pressure people in responding

[velvet burrow]

Man

It's kinda funny how in these early late cretaceous SA environments it's +10 ton sauropod after +10 ton sauropod and then ↓ small ornithischians with absolutely no in between

[steady rock]

the way the edmontonia was still alive during this 😭

[pliant cedar]

kinda like african hunting dogs and jackals (i didnt use lions and leopards cause they are part of the same genus)

[zinc barn]

Lokiceratops, yeah love him too :DD

[zinc barn]

Family is maybe rauisuchidae... OR maybe dinosauria, it's still a mystery.
Why you translate only genus name?
personally, instead of "other species" I would give the catalog name of a known specimen .
Btw I never heart about one tone body mass Smok xd.
Suborder and infraorder i think would be this:

[hoary laurel]

Recently traveled to Svalbard, 80 degrees north and found this on a bean at the base of an cliff

fun fact, this was right next to the furtherst perm human settlement at the north pole, town of 40 people all scientists

cant tell if its some kind of fish flipper, or a fern. But the people there said alot of the lime stone was 50 - 60 million years old, but some is actually from the devonian, and a friend of mine said it looked like a very early type of fern

I wanted to go hunting for more but the armed bodies guards had everyone move in groups, this is because there are 4000 polar bears and its a fairly small island, literally not legally allowed outside the town without a heavy caliber gun because people die often in the summer because the ice melts leaving all the bears in such a small dense area with little food.

strange point, all the fossles are found easily because the stones often rouded by time, have perfect cracks in them and they just fall apart. Very odd since it takes a long time for errosion to round a riverstone, only for them to split in two so perfectly, sometimes you dont notice its cracked at first glance. So thousands of years of erriosion and they all crack perfectly randomly overnight? no one knew why but I guessed it could be water getting into small parts of the stones and then expanding when the whole islands freezes in winter. so couldn't ask for a better place to fossil hunt, just dont get hunted urself lol

[white matrix]

WOW INCREDIBLE

i have an otodus obliqus tooth

[pulsar galleon]

I’m pretty sure it’s an indet archosaur

[white matrix]

i wonder if the keratin sheath theory amargasaurus wouldve used the spines aggressively.

[halcyon cobalt]

i dont think that would be healthy

[zinc solstice]

Was Pisanosaurus more likely a Ornithischian or a Silesaurid or Like some people are saying, transitional between silesaurids and ornithischians like wich one I honestly don't know

[bright veldt]

Silesaurs are basal ornithschians, so the distinction doesn’t really matter.

[serene moat]

I'm curious what's like the actual rate and stat's for wild animals to die of old age, like actual dying of old age not dying because they're old yk, cuz I imagine most animals die bc they're old and too weak to fight against whatever comes there way and rarely actually die of actual old age

[warped peak]

Silesaurus being added as an AI is honestly really neat

[ivory obsidian]

I thought so too really hyped for the ai changes

is there a list of all the species being added as ai i want to read up on some of them. Or have they not all been named yet?

[sharp canyon]

The first Triassic addition

[scenic flame]

that would be Wadiasaurus and Dynamosuchus

[zinc solstice]

Was Eusthenerpeton a saltwater fish or a fresh water fish

[bright veldt]

I believe both.

[velvet burrow]

So...
Campananeyen

[fossil ingot]

13-15 ton Carcha real trust guys

[timber kiln]

What's that

[wary junco]

new Rebbachisaurid whose paper came out yesterday

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08912963.2024.2383708

[timber kiln]

I would check it if my Data allows me to but it isn't sadly

[warped peak]

I just thought they spelt Campanian really badly

[fluid inlet]

https://www.sci.news/paleontology/asiatosuchus-oenotriensis-13099.html

[white matrix]

Koreaceratopos Is it a dinosaur still considered semi-aquatic?

[bright veldt]

No

[hallow spear]

It was never reliably considered semi aquatic, like Koreaceratips, Liangionosaurus, and Lurudusaurus all share this same missinfo

[white matrix]

Is there anything that says something about just koreaceratops?

[hallow spear]

Korea isn’t semi aquatic so why would there be

[velvet burrow]

What's the source of this and the previous stuff?

[sullen cairn]

https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0195667121001282

[steady rock]

https://x.com/kiracuriee/status/1822288797570048470 opinions on this question?

Кірa Кʼюрі (@kiracuriee) on X

This specific room in Chicago museum always makes me think, what if an azhdarchid accidentally lost control and crashed beak first into a sauropod. Can it take it down like an arrow? Would it just get stuck in its air sack? Or would the break not even damage the skin? (somehow)

Twitter · Aug 10, 2024, 3:08 PM

[woeful falcon]

It's imaginative. My answer: the azhdarchid would break its neck and die. Sauropod would be like "ouch" but ultimately fine

[steady rock]

would it be like a bird flying into a window?

[woeful falcon]

If not more gruesome. Bigger animal, and azhdarchids are known for their long necks

[rose gate]

Could a drepanosaurus change it's skin color like a chameleon to blend in?

[topaz shell]

No evidence

[bitter tree]

If a UtahRaptor pack fight a Trike who would win?

[topaz shell]

Dromeaosaurs don’t have evidence for pack hunting

(Other than deinonychus)

[viral jasper]

why do some paleontologists choose to torment my nightmares with names like these?

Seymouria skinnerensis

Enigmosaurus

Futalognkosaurus
jaxartosaurus

Bustingorrytitan
Gigantosaurus

Ulughbeghsaurus

Cumnoria
Pantydraco
Rapetosaurus

Chungkingosaurus

Gigantspinosaurus

Ostafrikasaurus

Kol

Obamadon

Han Solo

kernitops

Jianianhualong

Pedopenna

Pegomastax

Eromangasaurus
ERECTOPUS

mei long

Suskityrannus

Eric

Kurrupi Itaata

I have thought a lot on this, and have decided that if I ever find a dino, I will name it regretodon

[topaz shell]

Zuul??? Why is he on the list

[viral jasper]

zuul is actually kinda nice, just goofy name (it's chill)

it also showcased the first signs of anky vs anky club action to my knowledge so it was a pretty big discovery

[bright veldt]

Even then not really in Deinon

[timber kiln]

It was more of Gang hunting

[frigid delta]

ngl i feel this tweet was the closest thing we can get for a coexistence with Utahraptor
https://x.com/Na185_Dragon/status/1823249963712934234?t=Va404IvpveiK3hkvr3CXlQ&s=19

なーさん (@Na185_Dragon) on X

サービス！🦖🥰

Twitter · Aug 13, 2024, 6:47 AM

https://youtu.be/J-PyYC_MOKo?si=7qV4gTgY_vnTgahc

[sharp canyon]

Dickinsonia

[velvet burrow]

I so wish the first one was true

[deft pecan]

Han Solo?

[frosty cedar]

There is no way this is real.

[deft pecan]

pretty sure that was george lucas's doing

[tough parcel]

This is not the only unusual scientific name erected by Turvey; in the same paper he named a new species Geragnostus waldorfstatleri, because of "the resemblance of the pygidial axis to the heads of Waldorf and Statler, two characters from The Muppet Show."[1] ```

[deft pecan]

oh wow

[frosty cedar]

I shut my mouth.

[frosty cedar]

Damn, that's pretty cool.

[frosty cedar]

I get most of this list, but why is Gigantosaurus here? Doesn't seem like a particularly difficult or strange name to me.

[lavish frigate]

Anyone have a Dromaeosaur and bird skeleton comparison? Talking with some “birds ain’t dinosaurs” dudes and it’d come in handy

[tall vale]

how could you forget drinker

only things i could find myself

@lavish frigate

[lavish frigate]

Thanks!

[tall vale]

Np 👍

[velvet burrow]

Oh yeah and add Ninjatitan, Thanos and Bulbasaurus phylloxyron

[bright veldt]

If it means anything, Drinker doesn’t exist anymore.

[tall vale]

https://tenor.com/view/yuji-breakdown-jujutsu-kaisen-yuji-jjk-anime-yuji-itadori-gif-2384733500658872785

[kindred night]

Incredible that Cope was such an unabashed racist with such a silly middle name like Drinker

Your name is too silly to do that

[viral jasper]

I thought it wasn't valid any more?

[viral jasper]

its really similar to giganotosaurus to the point my head hurts

[velvet burrow]

If you mean Gigantosaurus megalonyx, it's not valid anymore (and it came before Giganotosaurus in 1869, so gig is the actual imposter despite having a cooler name)

[viral jasper]

may the true gigan rest in peace

[onyx sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/gigan-falling-over-final-wars-gigan-godzilla-millennium-gif-10342457868585269054

[tough parcel]

Gigantosaurus is a sauropod

My brain skipped to Megalonyx and said "Yes, this is a sloth"

[viral jasper]

have you ever heard of Gigantspinosaurus?

[tough parcel]

Unfortunately

[pliant cedar]

he destroys ur shins

[frail robin]

Instant death for the Azhdarchid and a scratch for the Sauropod

[lavish frigate]

It makes a very funny clip of an Azhdarchid folding in on itself as it crumples from hitting the sauropod

[wispy summit]

Coughing baby vs Hydrogen bomb

[manic thicket]

Lookup Microraptor’s skeleton and it’s paleontology correct life like model and a skeleton of a Hoatzin Bird and the picture of a crow or raven. Between those you have a dromeosaur that is as close as possible to giving straight correlation to birds while possessing all attributes eternally of birds of modern day. I’ll send some images through.

[lavish frigate]

[manic thicket]

Now this more than likely won’t convince the individual you speaking too as proof is not enough for them. I got into about 4 arguments this year alone that I ran into the same issue and no matter how exact my profiles and or scientific evidence was they still think birds just pooped from I don’t know the airbenders or something.

The Hoatzin bird, shows the hand claws found on even the earliest dromeosaur species, showing a link that their family may be closely connected, and bird as well as Dromeosaur skeletons and fossils have near identical characteristics, but much like bird to bird their not all quite the same they have subtle differences, but this comes with the understanding that each bird like raptors live in different terrain, and environments that they live in alter their skeletons a little bit from another. But that’s nature. It’s ever changing but somehow remains the same just in a different package. Need proof of vastly different evolutionary traits, look at Concavinator and Carcherodontosaurus, both are related to one another yet the appearance and size and even the skeletal structure, is yet vastly different from one to the other due to their different external variables that cause change hence forth the process of evolution can be displayed little by little through out different families that segmented and changed throughout time becoming entirely new species yet also being in their original evolutionary order, much like the Dromeosaur family consists of these individuals but are not limited to. Troodon, Deinonychus, Giminiraptor, Pyroraptor, Dakotaraptor, Achillobator, UtahRaptor, Archaeopteryx, and Microraptor. Vastly different but yet are still the same in many ways.

[cloud dagger]

Hand claws can be found on other birds too, not just hoatzin. Though i’m not sure do all birds still have it

[zinc solstice]

Even in chickens I think? Idk also did you know fowl have been around longer than saurolophine hadrosaurs

[wind prairie]

ostriches have pretty pronounced hand claws throughout their lives

[polar scroll]

the 1st image looks abit cursed-

[elfin dragon]

well they are both in maniraptora so yeah they are pretty closely connected (also troodon doesnt exist and dakotaraptor is a turtle)

[daring grotto]

troodon still exists as a genus, it’s just in taxonomic hell cause it’s a tooth taxon and all it’s other material was assigned to stenonychosaurus

[zinc solstice]

Random but Also we do have avalians that looked Indentical to Basal troodontids like Hesperornithoides Known as basal avialans like Alcmonavis wich are transitional to some early cretaceous Avialians like jeholornis wich are kind of transitional to Avebrevicaudans like Omnivoropteryx where you can start to see the Tail shrink and transition to a more pygostyle tail that modern birds have and Creatures like Omnivoropteryx are Kind of transitional to Creatures like basal Pygostylians like Cratonavis wich are Transitional to Ornithothoracines and Ornithothoracines contains Enantiornithines and Euornithines (Group containing all living birds) and Some basal Euornithes like Archaeorhynchus wich are transitional to Ornithuromorphs like Apsaravis wich are transitional to Ornithurans like Ceramornis wich are transitional to Avians/Aves/ All birds alive today like Paleognaths like Tinamou (and I'm not claiming these creatures mentioned evolved into/from each other and I'm saying Creatures Like them not the Creatures mentioned themselves and im not saying Alcmonavis Evolved into jeholornis)

[bright veldt]

Dubious means it basically doesn't exist. It's not taken seriously as a taxa.

[sullen cairn]

dubious somehow becoming equated to invalid has been a disaster for sci-comm

[daring grotto]

not necessarily. the material exists. it’s still assigned to troodon. it’s more of a “we don’t know” vs “it doesn’t exist”… otherwise it’d be called invalid

[elfin dragon]

it doesnt exist until we have proof it DID exist

[daring grotto]

we do have proof it existed, we still have the holotype tooth that is still assigned to troodon. we just don’t know what the rest of it looked like, and probably never will as it’s nearly impossible to assign material to teeth taxon

[woeful falcon]

Pretty much functionally useless as a taxon tho, which is where I think the "didn't exist" mentality stems from. It might as well not

[daring grotto]

i don’t disagree that it’s functionally useless, but like the bruhathkay material, it still exists. my only point is that the genus is, technically, still in use, and that whatever animal the holotype belongs to did exist

[woeful falcon]

Well, the bruhathkay material was destroyed. It actually no longer exists haha

[daring grotto]

lol that’s true, brainfart, but i think you know what i meant X)

[elfin dragon]

proof as in not a damn tooth

[daring grotto]

the tooth existing is proof the animal existed ..

[woeful falcon]

Yeah lol. But even so, we put a little too much weight on named things that shouldn't have had names on the first place. "Still in use" only matters as much as well, it can even be used. After all, under the right conditions even with seniority, the name Troodon can become nomen oblitum

[daring grotto]

honestly my only point is that whatever animal that tooth belonged too, as currently under the name troodon, did exist. what is it? who knows

[woeful falcon]

Its a troodontid

[elfin dragon]

the genus is based off of a single tooth lol it could literally be any other troodontid in the area

[daring grotto]

yeah, i know, as i said in my previous message all i’m saying is that the animal DID exist

[elfin dragon]

AND the tooth isnt different enough from other troodontid teeth to be considered significant proof it existed

[woeful falcon]

I think uh, indeterminate troodontid would be the proper classification these days ye

[flat pond]

Well went and saw the Dueling Dinosaurs in Raleigh today.

[astral spindle]

Wasn't the Protoceratops biting the Raptors arm?

[frigid delta]

nah it was actually wrestles with it||/j||

[wary junco]

that’s the fighting dinosaurs specimen, this is dueling dinosaurs which is a different set of taxa

[pliant cedar]

literally what would happen in pot

[storm heron]

Ah, nice, I haven't forgotten about this curious find.

[open compass]

How long was Dacen? Was it really that long?

[scenic flame]

this is the best reference for it right now

[open compass]

By the way, did they had side spikes like kentrosaurus?

[bright veldt]

No

[outer tusk]

It was also 7 tonnes

Guys, I know avian dinosaurs colors on large non avian theropods is a bit extreme but I wanted to try something and was wondering does it look a bit plausible

[storm heron]

Alright so, from what I have understood from people more knowledgeable than me, if you just reduced the area/amount of blue a bit more + make the orange darker, then this is plausible.

Whether this coloration was beneficial to the animal itself is another question.

[patent mist]

The orange looks fine. False gharials get a lot redder and as far as I know their orange color is derived from melanin and not carotenoids

[snow python]

Was Utahraptor the apex predator of its environment?

[frigid delta]

how accurate was Dinosaur Britian Bary?
https://youtu.be/2VUrZtHdjjg?si=RA9QDhvQcULy6Jt0

[cosmic fox]

how?

[polar scroll]

the way the feathers just... yk

[cosmic fox]

that’s how they are on everything with feather wings. The feathers grow outwards and down the middle finger

[velvet burrow]

Are there described hadrosauroids from before the campanian in South America?

[bright veldt]

Yes

[warped peak]

Hey @bright veldt, do you by any chance have that photo of what the proportions of a 60 Foot Mosa off of the material remains looked like?

[bright veldt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/542776901442338816/1265425756008353916/main-qimg-fcf89ce91352b91c495674a3a712c851.png?ex=66c07252&is=66bf20d2&hm=55765168d3399832be25d96a3f7bfe3a90e4e3b5a54a140a235d974ccb855a5e&

[warped peak]

Thanks!

[snow python]

How big is the biggest dasp, 10m and 4t? I doubt it was 11m and 5t like wikipedia says

[stiff osprey]

we don't have an exact size for it, 10-11m and 4-5t is an appropriate range

[open compass]

What's size of the biggest carcha that we ever found? Is 160sm correct for it's skull?

[stiff osprey]

Yes that's about right. It's in the same size range as the skull of the Giga holotype, but less robust

[open compass]

Wasn't the skull of the largest giga about 150 cm long?

[stiff osprey]

that was pre-Meraxes, now it's 163 cm

I love using pre-Meraxes and post-Meraxes to refer to carcharodontosaur reconstructions. Everything changed when the Targaryens attacked

[open compass]

Oh interesting, what about rex's skull?

[stiff osprey]

hasn't changed, the biggest rex skulls are still 151-153 cm. With maybe the exception of Cope, but we need more data

[sullen cairn]

real ones use premax-quadrate

[sullen cairn]

i like how absolutely none of the citations say anything about a 5t pete iii

$10 someone saw paul's schizo 5t sir william and thought big das = pete iii

and of the 3/4ths of the citations that mention pete iii two outright call it torosus and the other one calls it sp. so wikipedia's just lying there

[tough parcel]

Wait how, Wiki does say it's either D. torosus or .sp

[sullen cairn]

wikipedia says its been proposed to be a new species

this is despite none of the citations saying its been proposed to be a new species

[runic sphinx]

We ain't gonna talk abt the delta, this thing was this big 👀

Jeez dinosaurs were large

[magic monolith]

I heard reports of this guy likely being one of the longest theropods

[daring grotto]

summon the jfd guys

[calm agate]

Delta potentially being one of the longest Theropods comes from lumping in Bahariyasaurus but from what I've been told the original author who suggested it is no longer convinced of this, though it's not been formally published anywhere yet

[daring grotto]

yeah delta is wacky

[calm agate]

Default Delta however alone is just, distressing. My man is built like a 3 meter animal yet is over 8 while being the same mass as Ceratosaurus

[daring grotto]

i’ve seen some of your tweets talking about how horrifying of an animal it is definitely the creature ever

[warped peak]

I do sincerely believe Baharia is gonna end up as the longest theropod, regardless of classification

That kind of long leg in that environment is extremely telling of a tall and really lanky animal

[tough parcel]

The Brachiosaurus in question

[viral jasper]

the saurus ever

[brisk quiver]

Rex can’t see well

[warped peak]

Incorrect!

[frosty cedar]

People who know dinos only from JP/JW be like:

[topaz shell]

POV a rex sees you from miles away and you can’t see it

[daring grotto]

literally the exact opposite

[topaz shell]

Rex has like the best eyes of literally anything ever on earth right??

(Idk😭)

[compact leaf]

no not anything ever but they were very good

[topaz shell]

https://tenor.com/view/knowledge-tai-lopez-lamborghini-gif-19251888

[daring grotto]

some of the best binocular vision yes, but overall eyesight no

best binocular vision in non avian dinosaurs tho, with deinonychosaurs a close second

[topaz shell]

I will now place this information in the back of my mind for later use

[timber kiln]

Rage bait 101

[lapis ice]

Who win an territorial battle Tyranotitan or Sauroniops?

[stiff osprey]

Sauroniops is known from a scrap of brow so I don't think we can answer that

[tough parcel]

If I beamed the Sauroniops brow scrap at the forehead of the Tyrannotitan, the Sauroniops would win

[stiff osprey]

I think they would both lose

[tough parcel]

Ever a pessimist I see

[jagged trellis]

i need a refresher on HOW much we have of psittacosaurus, because i remember it has alot of important remains

[bright veldt]

basically everything, hundreds of skeletons, including complete ones

[jagged trellis]

so the sub adult sibling found with the baby horde is still that yeah, and the skin impressions yeah? just double checking because i thought there was abit of a fuss awhile ago on it

[serene moat]

Good lord i thought dasp was like 3 ton range but 4-5 is a beast of a mf

[bright veldt]

Ye. We also found one recently that was locked in battle with repenomamus fighting-dinosaur style.

[light osprey]

Daspletosaurus vs Repenomamus

[jagged trellis]

oh yeah, thanks for reconfirming for me, just been a hot second on the taco

[outer tusk]

7 tonnes vs 2,5 tonnes SO FAIR!!!

[bright veldt]

I don't know what this mammal is doing tussling with a dinosaur several times its size but meh.

[compact leaf]

repanomamus mammalian cunning joke

[jagged trellis]

he saw tacos younger brother was called a sheep so must've meant a easy meal trust

also one thing to check, what was that giant fragmentary frog( miocene i THINK?) haven't heard much from it

[sullen cairn]

This is because most are around 3t and the largest specimen flirts with 4t

which is to say 5t is like the upper end of vaguely reasonable estimates for the absolute largest individual we have

[velvet burrow]

"The agile Repenomamus, with his cunning and long-lasting energy, might well win"

[tough parcel]

Was this not called into suspicion?

[bright veldt]

It was but so does everything? Nothing anybody said was seriously convincing. It was just "eh idk".

[jagged trellis]

having a almost badger fighting a triceratops great great uncle is way cooler than they just got lumped together randomly, or maybe it was aggressive hugging

[sullen cairn]

truly

[kindred night]

The Repano is grabbing onto the tibia directly and basically phasing through the entirety of the elephant thick skin, connective tissue, and robust musculature of the lower leg. There is no way it's not altered in someway

[topaz shell]

Could be a dead psittacosaurus

[void fulcrum]

i dont know even the basics that well and I went straight for dinos!

feathers teeth and eye to be added

[tough parcel]

Oh tysm, I knew the leg was the issue but I couldn't remember the exact problem ❤️

[onyx sedge]

Love this

[bright veldt]

Ah I see. I guess it was scavenging then. Although even then the angle is hella wierd.

[mental slate]

Isn't there a debate over Tyrannosaurus being a scavenger? Correct me if I'm wrong yet again lol

[jagged trellis]

there was one but it was kinda stopped after we found healed rex bite marks in stuff

[stiff osprey]

Not really a debate, it's just one paleontologist that keeps saying it was a scavenger despite piles of evidence because he wants to be quirky

[mental slate]

Ah alr, I thought that was highly unlikely anyways considering how many fossils have healed bites and it evolved to counter the herbivores

[jagged trellis]

it was a small debate with slight bit of founding but like, most of it was just ignoring the evidence like random said

[stiff osprey]

Like all carnivores, T. rex would scavenge sometimes, and it had one of the most advanced senses of smell in the animal kingdom which probably helped. But it's too big to survive off carcasses alone without hunting for itself occasionally

[mental slate]

Exactly, it was the largest land predator ever, there's no way it wouldn't have been exhibiting predatory behaviour

[sharp canyon]

To be fair weasels hunt rabbits several times their size. And even if it wasn't predation squirrels alone should show just how violent small critters can get if they feel they have to

[wind prairie]

some animals are just built different

[wind mirage]

Maybe it was opportunistic like eating anything it could find but also hunting too?? I dunno much but this could probably answer some things

Bc it was pretty big and heavy and it was an ambush predator I heard but it still had to use tons of energy to chase it down after for a quick kill (I think?) So if it was too tired to hunt, hungry again, and found food itd scavenge

I dunno but I just started chatting here, I still have tons to learn but this is my hypothesis

[wind mirage]

I also heard it was very smart too so maybe it just like knewwhat to do and what to hunt, when to scavenge after and where etc

[velvet burrow]

Are there any hadrosauroid genera from before the campanian in South America? Or at least undescribed remains?

[tough parcel]

Last I checked, rex was the fastest multi-ton animal in its environment so I wouldn't say it was super slow

Obviously might've changed, but that's also just basic carnivore plan (Eat what you get)

[wind mirage]

Yea, I don't think I said it was slow but it mightve just been pretty adaptable and yes fast, ur right

Like rhinos and elephants today are pretty big and heavy but they can also run pretty quickly too, Ik this doesn't even compare to rex but just as an example or statement yk just wanted to say that

[tall vale]

Isn’t Edmontosaurus the fastest?

[wind mirage]

Wait question, do dinos have a different taxonomy classification list than animals today or is it the same?? Like DKPCOFGS?? Or is it different because of the different time period and stuff

[polar scroll]

INDORAPTOR?!?!?!

[stiff osprey]

It's almost certain that it was opportunistic, if a giant herbivore (or another tyrannosaur) happened to die in its environment T.rex would probably be able to track the carcass from several miles away. The amount of its brain that is taken up by the olfactory bulb is the largest of any animal afaik

[void fulcrum]

ye

[polar scroll]

wait wouldn´t you get copyrighted from universal?

[stiff osprey]

Also yes, dinosaurs use family, genus and species ranking. Dinosaurs are already a subset of "class Reptilia"

[wind mirage]

Yea makes sense

[void fulcrum]

im not making a game or anything just in my free time

[polar scroll]

does that mean we can make JP/JW dinos 👀

[wind mirage]

Ohh okay, ty

[void fulcrum]

I mean if you learn a bit of blender yeah why not (maybe more than a bit but still)

[polar scroll]

imagine JP stego bruh that thing will rival rexes 💀

[void fulcrum]

not as good but eh. I happen to have attempted to make one

[void fulcrum]

update btw he now has eyes feathers and teeth

[river plinth]

Imo I think it would have been more like a grizzly bear were it primarily just ate all it could in its sight and took kills from other dinosaur while also setting up a ambush for prey if it could

[quartz adder]

That's quite the stego

[river plinth]

I think 1 of there rexs got hurt by a stego in the novels before but I could be wrong

[scenic flame]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQLN5tJM7TA&t=1679s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYh4DADhZcg
to add to this, these two videos about the ecology of Monster Hunter go in depth about the kind of adaptations you would see in something that mostly or entirely scavenges, tldr large terrestrial scavengers are next to impossible due to how inefficient it is to do so

[tranquil quartz]

Unnatural History Channel is so good

Anyway Paleo Guys. What are your initial thoughts (I know its just a shadow).

https://fxtwitter.com/pathoftitans/status/1824645774124237027?t=VFC2YAYDQJPFYsVxwZw6zg&s=19

[scenic flame]

anything along the lines of these two should be good

[wind prairie]

what a coincidence, I was just watching the bazelgeuse video now lol

[bright veldt]

Can't explain exactly why but I'm really nervous about Miragaia. I hope it's unfounded.

[wind prairie]

me too. Mainly, I'm not a game developer, but changing its name to dacentrurus can't be that hard right?

[woeful falcon]

Nah. But they're not doing that

Didn't with megalania

[elfin pulsar]

The purchase was for miragaia so it doesn’t really work like that

[tranquil quartz]

Didn’t do it for Laten either

[wind prairie]

but miragaia is dacentrurus
with megalania, that's still a frequently used common name
and laten was fine when it was first added

[jagged trellis]

miratrurus, problem solved

[tranquil quartz]

Miragaia was also fine when it was first purchased

[woeful falcon]

Yeah but in game its not common names, it's the binomial

Meaning megalania's is wrong

[flat pond]

Is there any better skeletals for Stan out there or no

[woeful falcon]

It's also one paper. Devs of a video game don't need to honor one paper over the perk dino as advertised for the sake of having the accurate name

[bright sluice]

Why did megalania get its name changed anyways?

[wind prairie]

since when? we literally have fictional "sub"species and the main differentiator between each playable is only the genus name

[bright veldt]

tbf Megalania makes sense because Varanus makes things more complicated then they need to be. Still fair though given laten's existed for 3 years now.

[woeful falcon]

I don't think the devs really care about all that. I think they just found it simpler to keep the name Megalania as its long been advertised not only in the PoT community but also in general. As with Laten and prolly mira

[scenic flame]

I personally would like name swaps to be done with the exception of mega because of how fucky it is

[woeful falcon]

Since always. The creatures in PoT go by their binomials, even including fictional species. They're fictional binomials

Megalania's name in game is not its actual binomial, Varanus priscus.

[bright veldt]

Again with megalania it's iffy because, we actively refer to other Varanus frequently. Komodo dragon is also Varanus. Changing that would just make it confusing.

[scenic flame]

Varanus Varanus priscus

[woeful falcon]

It doesn't have to be. In the video game I don't think anyone would be really going "ummmmmmm Varanus??? Like the komodo dragon and water monitor? Kinda confused now"

Or rather, I don't think people would have been had it been called Varanus priscus. Specially not when its other species are fictional and have god awful specific names

[bright veldt]

I feel like you're missing the point. I'm referring to the justification to change it not the what-if if that was a thing.

[scenic flame]

I mainly just don't like it aesthetically

[woeful falcon]

Ig I'm confused bc I don't know that I'm missing the point. You're saying its justified Megalania not getting its named changed bc its iffy to refer to it as Varanus and it would have confused people ye? I'm just commenting that I don't think it would have been so troublesome

[native kindle]

im sure if they redid the ui a bit, and made space to include the species name to then have subspecies stay where they are it wouldn't be all too bad

[kindred night]

Wanted to move the cheek talk here from modding. It's clear that at least derived thyreophorans had cheeks that went to the beak as seen in Pannoplosaurus. The question is if it's a unique feature to Ankylosaurs or if it's a more basal condition.

My personal take is that like ankylosaurs a lot of Ornithischians have a recessed tooth row which at least in Ankylosaurs seems to fill in with a cheek. A lot of Ornithischians also independently evolve complex chewing and food processing which is really hard to do if your food has a big chance of falling out of your mouth

[scenic flame]

good point

[storm heron]

Even proportionally as well in comparison to other Tyrannosaurids?

[daring grotto]

for the whole body, not really, but remember his skull has a severe injury that caused that kinda dented shape, and that his teeth are really slipped. apparently they were mid shed but idk the validity on that

[velvet burrow]

What's a more modern Halszkaraptor skeletal? Looking into it i've seen that the evidence for it being semiaquatic is pretty weak and apparently the descriptor is kind of an idiot about it (reworded because language)

[river plinth]

Progigantosaurus

Dose anyone know what this animal is or if it's real or fake?

[steady rock]

how much did mira weigh?

[magic monolith]

7.8 tons

[steady rock]

that says dace?

[tulip dove]

Mira got clapped, no longer a valid genus

[magic monolith]

Yeah
Miragaia got clapped

Miragaia has fallen
Billions must refer to it as dace

[steady rock]

is it me or is it everytime PoT releases a creature, something happens to said creature

[bright veldt]

This and spino were like the two times something awkwardly happened when PoT released it

[thorn grove]

Would they actually make it the size of D. armatus though, or are they more likely to keep it the size of D/M. longicollum since regardless of the genus that’s probably the species they chose.

[bright veldt]

Longicollum is also dead. It wasn’t just a lump.

[magic monolith]

I couldn't tell you
I would assume its the size of dace since POT makes things oversized

[thorn grove]

Yea but if they had already sized it around estimates for Miragaia I doubt they would change that now. We don’t even know if they’ll bother changing the name yet

[bright veldt]

Doubt

[ivory obsidian]

Yea Miragaia iirc was split with its European species being reclassified as Dacenturous and it's North American species being put back as Alcovasaurus do we know which of the ex Miragaia species it was based off of

[stiff estuary]

I expect Pot will size Mira to fit inbetween Stego and Kent, rather then sticking strictly to a skeletal.

[topaz shell]

I hope not

[civic tulip]

What are the issues with this reconstruction? (I think POT based their Miragaia on this, we got to see its shadow)

[lunar copper]

depends if PoT uses dacent or miragaia as the base for it, since iirc recently miragaia was made invalid to become dacent

now if that means they pull an amarga and update its model to make it realismner or stay with miragaia we don't really know

[civic tulip]

I heard that this rec of Miragaia having spikes so closely knit together wasn't all that good + it had too many spikes and neck vertebrae I think

[junior dawn]

i dont think its based on that, at least not fully. You can see gaps between all the plates and spikes in the shadow

its probably based on whatever they used for the store silhouette, which is good cause its pretty close to the best reference you'll find for dacentrurines in general

[flat pond]

Found a bit of a better one, even though it is older.

[outer tusk]

Franoys is better

[zinc solstice]

Random but Could platytholus climb trees or other stuff

[flat pond]

So the one I previously mentioned. Tragic that Stan doesn’t have any newer skeletals for it.

[outer tusk]

I mean Franoys still holds up pretty well

[flat pond]

True

Also I didn’t realize that the Dueling Dinosaurs Tyrannosaurus was named Bloody Mary

[ivory obsidian]

Yeah I double checked Miragaia Longicollum has become Dacentrurus Longicollum and Miragaia Longispinus has become Alcovasaurus Longispinus. Though admittedly I think Miragaia was an uncertain genus for some time.

[flat pond]

Well this is a very interesting skeletal for Denversaurus.

[outer tusk]

use lanican's

[sly viper]

Chat was the smallest dinosaur?

[flat pond]

Which looks like?

[flat pond]

Oh I’ve seen that one. I was just saying how interesting GetAway’s was

[sly viper]

^

[flat pond]

Though yes, Lanican’s is better

[flat pond]

Tbf, we aren’t a 100% what the smallest is as smaller bones tend to be harder to fossilize than bigger bones. As for one of the smallest, I’d say Sinosauropterx.

[sly viper]

Thanks g

Also chat is prognathodon and mosasaurus two different animals or nah

[tough parcel]

At least one of them, yes

[warped peak]

They have dramatically different skulls

I believe this was Mosa and Prognathodon side by side, taken by me

This was the wrong image lmao

Mosa vs Prog

[hallow spear]

Ignore the messages before this, GATs is better to use (Lancians own words)

[sly viper]

Chat what is the largest cephalopod

[warped peak]

Parapuzosia, a giant ammonite. Weighed up to 2 tons or so

[bright veldt]

Miragaia longicollum was thrown out entirely. It wasn’t a lump. They found that Miragaia longicollum was Dacentrurus armatus remains the whole time, and thus the younger taxa was invalidated.

[flat pond]

Ah, interesting. Thanks

[hallow spear]

well, no it is a lump, its just a lump at an entire species level

[bright veldt]

Yknow what I mean

[sly viper]

Ty

[ivory obsidian]

Oh so Longicollum is completely invalid? I was under the impression the Genus was desolved not the species.

[bright veldt]

The species was too yeah

[ivory obsidian]

Damn rip my boi

[brave nova]

Is allosaurus amplexus accurate?

[azure fable]

Miragaia is out people

[topaz shell]

They definitely already know

[scenic flame]

it's an invalid species

[brave nova]

Thank u

[hallow spear]

its not
or well, its not really as simple as that cause officially i think it is just A. amplexus with a subjective entire lump

[scenic flame]

oh, interesting

[hallow spear]

its indistinguishable from Sauro AND Allo

[light osprey]

Is amnh 680 Epanterias?

[sullen cairn]

one of the most completely known theropods
look inside
systematics absolutely suck

[hallow spear]

no, its A. fragilis

[steady rock]

so uhm, how good is in the term of accuracy? ( i cant spell its name )

[scenic flame]

great

[hallow spear]

pretty good

[bright veldt]

Ye. Extremely disappointed by it otherwise though. Venomous stegosaur is cringe af.

[flat pond]

Wasn’t expecting it to be venomous

[onyx sedge]

@brave nova ^

[junior dawn]

wouldve been cool if it was based on dans dacen, but still nice

[outer tusk]

how the hell do you make a stegosaur venomous?

[flat pond]

A great question.

[brave nova]

So is it more its own species? (I’m very confused)

[hallow spear]

You can argue both lumped & split but only to Allosaurus amplexus, "Epanterias" doesnt really have much to go off iirc

[hallow spear]

rubbing its spikes on toxic plants, its not a difficult concept really

[velvet burrow]

Are we allowed to talk about the newcomer?

[outer tusk]

oh because I thought being venomous means you bite your prey and inject venom into it

[keen forum]

@next crest

[hallow spear]

ashleys isnt very good

[flat pond]

I mean I get it, all of the stegosaurs doing bleed would have been a bit bland but the ability to hit 3x isn’t a bad idea. Being toxic is just a really strange thing for it.

[velvet burrow]

TF HAPPENED TO IT'S HIPS
Should the hips look like that?

[sullen cairn]

skeletals always being in perfect lateral and its consequences...

[next crest]

apparently

[hallow spear]

look like what

[bright veldt]

Its whole kit is confusing as hell. Like it brings a lot of innovation with its new abilities but they just do not fit Mira at all. They looked at one of the most unique stegosaurs and decided its role would be “every status effect go”

[keen forum]

the spike count is a bit much yeah

[sullen cairn]

guys ilia aren't always just like super thin blades y'know right

[pallid glacier]

Oh I’m happy that everyone is disappointed too

[velvet burrow]

Yeah i hate that sm, sometimes i want to draw a something and i can't do a good angle because everything is lateral view

[hallow spear]

articulation of stuff too

[silver canopy]

And then give it the worst damage in the game!

(I do actually like it tho tbh)

[velvet burrow]

Square and low

[hallow spear]

"low" ?
& this is Stegos https://www.deviantart.com/sketchy-raptor/art/Stegosaurus-Muscular-Anatomy-849218897

[outer tusk]

Like I do kind of like the idea of maybe a posionous stegosaur but it just feels off

[sullen cairn]

i can never take this image seriously after that stupid kingpin version

[flat pond]

Plus wouldn’t it have been the largest stegosaur in the game since Stegosaurus is based off of S.stenops. I wouldn’t have minded it doing bleed, heck the 3x hit it has is actually something I was thinking they would have added since Sucho has a multi hit attack. Being venomous and toxic just doesn’t seem to well…. make it seem well. If anything it’s a bit more confusing.

[hallow spear]

If they used the D. armatus specimen it would have been the longest but not the largest, their Stenops also isnt the most accurate

[near sleet]

this is miras skeletal.

[junior dawn]

an outdated one yeah

[elfin pulsar]

This is super outdated lol

Mira does not have shoulder spikes

[bright veldt]

Dacen is like right behind stego size-wise. It being big is expected.

[onyx sedge]

[near sleet]

VIKING YOU LIER

[flat pond]

True, stenops is not very accurate and it would have been the longest if they had went with D. armatus.

[dusky prairie]

Mira straight up looking like the ice age kentrosaurus💀 lol

[near sleet]

that's foul

[elfin pulsar]

Does someone have an updated mira skeletal

Oh nvm it’s above

[junior dawn]

best is ths

[elfin pulsar]

Thanks

[loud python]

no idea if a breakdown on what happened to Miragaia was ever given for those out of the loop, but basically we had the front half of Miragaia and the back half of Dacenturus. Both are found from the same region and time, but were treated as different species.

A specimen was described that half enough of both halves to compare between both Dacenturus and Miragaia, and this one animal had all of the traits of both species on the respective sides (all of Mira's on front, all of Dacen's in back).

This basically says "they're the same thing" so Miragaia, the more recently named species, would then be sunk into Dacenturus.

Alcovasaurus longispinus is also primarily known from the back half of the animal, and was the reference for Miragaia's back half before this new specimen. But Alcova is definitively distinct from Dacenturus, so since Miragaia's back half is now Dacenturus, Alcovasaurus became a distinct genus once again.

https://academic.oup.com/zoolinnean/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/zoolinnean/zlae074/7696911

[brave nova]

Wym by lumped and split? That entire thing kinda confused me more 😭

[hallow spear]

you can argue for both lumping amplexus into Allosaurus as a whole, or argue for it being Allosaurus amplexus

[peak jetty]

So is Mira's hips being that wide and back being thatflat actually accurate? it looks great laterally but at an angle ...

[wary junco]

yeah stegosaur pelvises (and particularly dacentrurines) are just that wide, and the epaxial musculature seems about right... that's just how stegosaurs are built haha

[hallow spear]

it may not be 100% identical to how it should be, but its close enough to where it really does not matter

[brave nova]

Oh so do u lean to either one more or equal on both in your opinion

[rose thorn]

Rub the spines in smashed mushrooms or fecal matter

[outer tusk]

so I'll become venomous if I do that?

[daring grotto]

or perhaps this is just a game with magical healing calls and other things, it doesn’t need to max sense X)

[blazing mural]

Wait, is the new dinosaurs that's our a valid?

[daring grotto]

in layman’s terms, the name is. the animal isn’t

[blazing mural]

Why not the animal? What happened if I can ask?

[daring grotto]

this explains it well ^^

[blazing mural]

Thank you

[hushed fossil]

Guys

Is it true that no venomous stegosaurs ever existed?!? Dissapointed 😞

[topaz shell]

[stiff osprey]

Fun fact: if a stegosaur stabbed you, you would die, regardless if it had venom or not

[woeful falcon]

no I wouldn't

[junior dawn]

lets test it

[warped peak]

UwU what's this impales you

[junior dawn]

🚪

[outer tusk]

I know this is mostly coming from an artistic stance but is this kind of line detail okay?

[elfin dragon]

does it seem a little thin to anyone else?

[outer tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/riddler-paul-dano-new-rockstars-thumbnail-does-he-know-he-doesnt-know-gif-27552850

[mental slate]

Amazing!

[topaz shell]

Why is the “if tyrannosaurus had lips” even a debate

[stiff osprey]

primarily because jurassic park made it popular to have T.rex without lips

[bright veldt]

Yeah just JP fanboyism

Don't ask them why raptors are allowed to have lips but larger theropods aren't. It breaks their fragile minds.

[soft spear]

Tiranossaur Need “hit-kill” bite in all small dinossaurs. And one hability to clamp another dinos using the foot, Like eagle, falcon…

[dusky stratus]

mildly considering tlcing the squalicorax model, anyone got any pointers/cool refs?

[elfin dragon]

mostly the fact that it has a worse underbite than my dog which makes it look pretty funny

[dusky stratus]

this is the proper sideview* will prolly do heavy editing to the face area yeah

[trim bluff]

Scott Hartman redid his Suchomimus skeletal

Thoughts on the validity of its proportions?

[stiff osprey]

it's much better than the old one, definitely

torso looks kinda small but I don't know of any proper measurements that have been published

[trim bluff]

But I thought since it was a baryonychine its proportions would look less similar to Spinosaurus. Is there new information about Suchomimus that was released that I missed changing its proportions so drastically from before?

[stiff osprey]

If you're referring to the short legs, they are much longer compared to Spinosaurus, Hartman just put the animal in an oddly crouched posture that makes the legs look shorter

[trim bluff]

I see

[stiff osprey]

lined them up with the same body length, the green and red lines are their hip heights

[outer tusk]

hartman's sucho is tall af btw Rndom you saw my sucho lineart?

[topaz shell]

Wait new sucho build?

[glass monolith]

I did not

[outer tusk]

oh mb I meant Randomdinos

[sudden wind]

The dip at the upper lob of the tail should probably be going more straight below the upper lobe.
The caudal keel could also be more pronounced but that would depend of Squalicorax ecology/lifestyle which idk if it was really a pelagic shark, but given the tiger shark like teeth it probably lived near the coastline. It seems your model lacks a precaudal pit which is present in pelagic sharks and rather deep (see Lamnids, Carcharhinids, Sphyrnids, Cetorhinus, Odontaspids).

The gill slits are off. Reminds of The Meg's gills ngl. Still, it probably didn't need as much oxygen as Lamnids themselves so you could get away by making them smaller (possibly Carcharhinid like ? size wise).

The head seem to need a lot of touch ups. Nostrils could be changed a bit so they are more like that of other Lamniforms (see here for sand-tiger shark). Having a top view could also help to visualize better how it should look like given that the only specimen we have is the one in the third picture.
It should be broad but not like to the extant of tiger shark (still given their similarity in teeth they probably had similar lifestyle so I could suggest to tilt the tail more downward, though I think this is suggested by the fossil itself?). It could need to be pointier but still short (so things like porbeagles and salmon sharks should not be the only references, but I still recommend to look at the so you have a better idea of how Squalicorax head could have looked like) and with wide jaws.

Also, a recommendation would be to give your Squalicorax (once you are at texturing) eyes more similar to Odontotaspids or Alopids given their basal position among Lamniforms. So, not deep blue eyes that Lamnids have + with their round pupil.

So, Squalicorax would be kind of like a porbeagle but with sand-tiger shark-like eyes, more downward positioned tail with a smaller lower lobe like tiger shark or sand-tiger, probably smaller gills than porbeagle, wider jaws and less pronounced caudal keel.

[dusky stratus]

Tysm! here's the current topview. is it alright if i dm you once i have alot more work done based on these critiques?

[frank mason]

Does anyone have any idea/reference where the idea for PoT miragaia to spit? I was having a look at miragaia research cause I know nothing about them, and haven't read anything about them spitting. I know it's likely just a game mechanic, and a cool one at that, but I was just genuinely curious if it's based off any studies or anything

[noble dune]

Gameplay

[nimble quartz]

Based off a beatle

[bright veldt]

It's just spit. That's it. It's not based on anything.

[sly viper]

Is sigilmassosaurus valid or nah?

[bright sluice]

https://youtu.be/SoNVyro66hM?si=kKtPoWsDWa5W4lTC This video got me thinking, what are good references for dinosaur nostrils and eyes?

[daring grotto]

bird

[sly viper]

Chat would a triceratops (prosus or horridus) against a tyrannosaurus

[north mango]

Dude really said bees aren't venomous I'm dead 😂

[gilded cave]

First of all, be nice and read the rules

I meant bees aren’t venomous in the ways that you would normally think of venom being *

[north mango]

You were being rude first? ( -_-)

[kindred lagoon]

Also male bees aren’t venomous since they don’t have stingers but I don’t think that counts

Yikes minute long cooldown : /

[gilded cave]

How??? We were discussing something and you said I was “mad cause i was wrong” 💀🙏

[north mango]

"he's pulling hard to be right" is pretty rude if you ask me 😂

[gilded cave]

It’s not rude though lol. It’s something you were doing.. you kept making up stuff to seem right

[north mango]

What was i making up exactly?

[gilded cave]

Slow loris eating birds, a bunch of other crap

[north mango]

It's a fact ( -.-)

Even if it doesn't eat bird it def eats bugs which means it has an insectivore diet as well making it not a herbivore

[gilded cave]

I sent you a literal wiki from a zoo stating their diet….

[sullen cairn]

i'm legitimately intrigued as to how you even manage to get into an argument over lorises eating birds on the path of titans discord server of all places

[tribal sandal]

Please remain polite and respectful towards each other and do not provoke or antagonize other users while in conversation. Refer to our #rules

[north mango]

Well i don't see this going anywhere let's just end it 😂

[gilded cave]

Also it rarely eats bugs. Just like how almost all herbivores irl eat meat, that doesn’t make them carnivores or omnivores in the long run, same with how carnivores eat herbivores food on occasion, doesn’t make them herbis or omnivores

[north mango]

Started by me trying to figure out why the mira does venom damage when a venomous herbivore creatures don't exist, and then people pointing out animals that aren't herbivores being venomous xD and it's turned to this

[north mango]

If you want to continue with the convo feel free to dm me we have talked about this enough no one else cares about our convo 😂

[ocean drum]

I mean it's interesting 💀

[north mango]

Nah we can't agree so it's just going to go in a circle no point you know? 😂

[honest cobalt]

Just agree to disagree

[north mango]

There ya go agree to disagree

[bright veldt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1030924084604842004/1274578283651923998/Screenshot_2024-08-17_140112.png?ex=66c2c307&is=66c17187&hm=a4f17b0e6e7fe53126529e2f9cc62da13976f3f41bb0f84e060e7769b6a9f9af&

[tiny holly]

fwiw btw if you want to get into semantics about "this animal sometimes eats other animals/animal products" then very, very few animals would be truly herbivorous. Even ungulates, the most herbivore of herbivores, will eat small animals and eggs sometimes. Herbivore is probably more reasonably a term to describe animals that primarily eat vegetation, but not solely.

[bright veldt]

Yeah that whole thing comes from a failed understanding of what herbivore/omnivore/carnivore means.

[tiny holly]

if anything it might be best to look at it as a lifestyle rather than diet? A herbivore is something whose day to day life revolves around eating vegetation. Which sounds very similar but is actually different from "animal that only eats vegetation"

[bright veldt]

Your cat deciding to be weird and eat grass doesn’t suddenly mean cats are omnivores.

[tiny holly]

Tangentially reminded of when I was curious about sloth diets and whether they are largely herbivorous or not and wikipedia mentions them eating carcasses? Scavenger sloth is somewhat terrifying in a way

[halcyon cobalt]

is miragaia poisonous or venomous though that’s the question

[bright veldt]

No dinosaur we know of was venomous. Poisonous? Eh no way of knowing.

[sudden wind]

Eyes, birds.
For nostrils I think there are some on the internet that looked into it. They'd be rather different to mammals and modern reptiles iirc given how much space there were. They'd be positioned at the foremost of the nasal opening. Here is how I do them usually.

[white matrix]

@bright veldt accuracy on this wip shant base sculpt? made non muscular cheeks and was wondering if that would be acceptable

[bright veldt]

Cheeks in hadrosaurs tmk can be done in a lot of different ways. We don’t really know if they had cheeks to begin with, even if rn the vibes are saying they probably did.

[storm heron]

I almost thought that Shantugosaurus sculpture was Deinoechierus.

[white matrix]

same, they're very similar

I'm referencing these images

I guess I could push up to the blue line

[silver canopy]

So wait why are people complaining Mira is boxy?

Isn't that accurate for stegosaurs now?

[tawdry cipher]

miragaia’s design feels weird to me or am i just trippin and it’s accurate?

[silver canopy]

I think it feels weird cause the other two official stegosaurs are based on older less accurate reconstructions

[sullen cairn]

assorted big (5t+) hadrosaur taxa that don't come with really stupid caveats

[tawdry cipher]

i dont know enough about it it’s just the neck feels really skinny to me for an animal of that size

[silver canopy]

I think that a neck like that is possible for Mira, I just kinda wish it had some kind of dewlap or fat along the bottom of the neck to make it look a little chunkier

[tawdry cipher]

that’s how i imagine it i think that’s the problem for me as well.

this one is extreme but i know what u mean

[silver canopy]

I also kinda wish ald would have some more speculative features on their dinos.

Then again I don't know how the community would react to that...

[tawdry cipher]

they could def do that more with the subspecies more often. i know they have done it but they could do it more. my favorite design though doesn’t have any really i love the sucho

[stray wren]

Stegosaurs are just square now, wait until Stego gets its next TLC, it'll be a cube

Later Thyreophorans tend to be more cubeoid in shape generally, look at Ankylosaurs for example, they're wide and flat

[sharp canyon]

Walking loaves of bread

[stray wren]

Kentros TLC is also square as heck

Less so than Decent/Mira, whos back is so flat it dips down in the center. As for the neck, Stegosaurus itself is an outlier in stegosaurs cause it's neck is pretty short, but Decent/Mira just has a freakishly long neck in general

[white matrix]

love the new stegos

[stray wren]

Like, compared to Stego this thing is a freak

[maiden wind]

How accurate would you guys say is Hershell Hoffmeyer's Tyrannosaurus rex? Here are the links to it by the way: https://www.daz3d.com/tyrannosaurus-rex-3?srsltid=AfmBOooTYdNAdsq-wjbznPwS_NUg-XzgilqTyoHnOKyKegedwYpTm6bJ https://www.daz3d.com/tyrannosaurus-rex-3-expansion

[sharp canyon]

Mira is a Stegosaur trying to be a sauropod

[white matrix]

actually compared to other stegosaurids, stegosaurus is the odd one out
the rest have that same kentro/dacent build

[stray wren]

Even compared to the average stegosaur Mira/Dacent has a freakishly long neck and weird build

[sharp canyon]

I mean

[white matrix]

I love these guys

[cloud dagger]

https://youtu.be/g61HrK6cquU?si=JVWwMkee9tFdOs1O robokaseki has made spino swimming model

[white matrix]

how would hadrosaurs have ran on 4 legs?

2 legged animations aren't that hard but 4 with the 2 front legs being shorter
my brain

all I can think of is planting the front legs and kicking with the rear legs to push itself forward

[sudden wind]

Well, it is kinda hard to picture as they would most likely not run like lizards nor mammals on all 4.
So, you see Miragaia and how it runs? Kinda similarly but with 2 limbs of different side going together.

[bright veldt]

Basically yeah

[stiff osprey]

They would have to slow down the pace of the hind legs so that they didn't overtake the front ones and faceplant. Which is the main reason they would run bipedally when chased by a predator, since there is no animal that intentionally cripples itself by running slower than it is capable of

[woeful falcon]

You've never seen me enter a race I know I would have lost at full speed

Which is like any race I've ever been part of

[cosmic fox]

true

[summer spoke]

Just to understand rq, the discussion's concerning hadrosaurs for which they've not been found to be obligate bipeds??

[bright veldt]

They’re primarily quadrupedal but can go on two legs.

[magic monolith]

I think the convo was wether they ran on 2 legs or not

[stiff osprey]

^
All hadrosaurs are primarily quadrupedal but they probably ran bipedally when the goal was to move as fast as possible

[scenic flame]

https://youtu.be/gnBEQMc4SZY?si=a8jdFIFxiyAyaKJR counter point

[rose thorn]

Watches PP Edmontosaurus

[stiff osprey]

yeah uh

a 6 ton plus hadrosaur is not galloping like that

[lunar copper]

Iguanodon gallop leak

[half lodge]

Is pachyrhinosaurs be work on

[sudden wind]

I hated it back in the days

[twin tapir]

I mean I'd say stegosaurus fits in pretty well with these two

[sudden wind]

Wuerho is so short it's not funny

[hallow spear]

Neither of those are very good

[white matrix]

so would they have ran on 4 legs for long distance running? to conserve energy?

[stiff osprey]

Possible

[white matrix]

to be real neither of those is accurate

[white matrix]

their torsos are so blocky, love how weird they are

[bright veldt]

Meanwhile Wuerho I have no idea. Every skeletal is completely different.

[native kindle]

ive heard the dacentrurine thing is something that was refuted ages ago, just sorta a fever dream

[bright veldt]

I mean still.

[compact leaf]

one species seems to clade dacentrurine, the other closer to stego

[hallow spear]

This skel is great compared to the stego, primarily because hespero doesnt require so many edits, i think there are only marginal things that the hesp actually needs compared to stego lmao (Stego is a horrible animal to reconstruct if ur trying to reconstruct something older than sophie)

[hallow spear]

I should just pay someone to figure out wtf homheni is doing lmaoo

[snow python]

Do we have any up to date styracosaurus skeletal?

[sullen cairn]

lambeosaur misscellania

[minor thistle]

gooooddd

[junior dawn]

whats the green para
cyrto?

[sullen cairn]

charonosaurus

i'm still maintaining my campaign of hating cyrto's guts

[junior dawn]

wtf....
charono para is bad tho! (maybe)

light blue is tubicen ye?

[sullen cairn]

indeed

charonosaurus is funny because the tlatolophus paper says the undescribed crest is para-looking but also doesn't reconstruct it para looking (but that might just be cause its not published)

that or they use tubular very liberally here

[junior dawn]

ig thats para looking enough

[bright veldt]

tmk Tubicens is still bigger than charon

[sullen cairn]

charono's cranial material's smaller but there's a really big femur too

[junior dawn]

the charon titan

[velvet burrow]

People, could Allen have had a larger predator?
Looking through stuff it seems like the largest carnivore was Niebla, but at the same time the largest things were Aeolosaurus and Kelumapusaura

[light osprey]

Second only to the Edmustho Titan

[junior dawn]

^

[warped peak]

Femur based scaling

Any known info or concerns on this yet?

[sullen cairn]

yeah why is the 1m rex femur as wide as sue

[junior dawn]

lol

[stiff osprey]

the body masses in general are bad and don't use the most up to date version of that equation

what does Dig stand for?

[sullen cairn]

how many feet underground they had to dig for the fossils

[stiff osprey]

i hate when i have to dig CT feet underground, digging SS is way easier

[flat pond]

Is Riparovenator still a thing or did it get the Miragaia treatment?

[sullen cairn]

still exists

[flat pond]

Ah, thanks. I was just curious

At least Tuojiangosaurus still has a relatively complete skeleton compared to others.

And while there will be people who will miss Miragaia, we can still love it as Dacenturus

And then there’s also Alcovasaurus being its own thing again.

[outer tusk]

Detail looks good so far?

[distant mauve]

Question are there any good skeletals for any ornithomimids that aren't galli or Struthi?

[glass monolith]

Leg looks a little squared out with how it just gets cut square like that

[outer tusk]

wait what

[glass monolith]

The first model

When the legs end at the hip, they’re cute squarely. It looks a little like you just slapped on the leg over the main body.

It’d look better if you made the leg tissue higher on one side than the other, preferably the anterior end. And also make the horizontal line inbetween a bit curved instead of do straight. Similar to the second model, which was amazing.

[flat pond]

Also isn’t Lokiceratops one of the largest centrosaurines to have been discovered recently?

[sullen cairn]

prolly largest one since like 2010 tmk

[flat pond]

Interesting

[bright veldt]

How big we talking?

[sullen cairn]

approaching ~3t scaling with styracosaurus

[tough parcel]

Why not scale with Albertaceratops?

[sullen cairn]

scale the skull and partial skeleton skeleton with a partial skull why didn't i think of that

[hallow spear]

Tuojiango genuinely sucks

[cosmic fox]

I think it's just some vertebrae and a skull fragment, so the rest can be wacky

[daring grotto]

the whole “500 very fragmentary british baryonychines” thing as a whole is pretty wishy washy

[white matrix]

valid?

[sharp canyon]

What, pray tell, do they think a hoof is?

[white matrix]

what does "pray tell" mean

I believe they were exaggerating the huge singular nail that makes contact with the ground in some edmontosaurus reconstructions

like in prehistoric planet

im used to seeing this but the x(twitter) post is saying the nail wouldnt have made contact with the ground

[rose thorn]

Just means elaborate on an oftentimes obvious factoid. A hoof is indeed a nail, but it also encapsulates an entire digit (in the case of cloven feet anyway). Hadrosaurs just have fleshy mitts encasing their digits with the nail sitting on top

[sullen cairn]

https://www.mdpi.com/2813-6284/2/3/9 ?utm_campaign=journnews_ccbj_ijerph&utm_medium=social_journ&utm_source=facebook

[open compass]

Was carcha bigger (longer, weight, taller and skull size) than giga?

[outer tusk]

💀

[open compass]

It's strange

[outer tusk]

wdym it's strange?

[native kindle]

a french abelisaur

[white matrix]

I will never understand the carcha fans

[open compass]

It's huge

[outer tusk]

Duh ofc it's huge it's a megatheropod for crying out loud

[open compass]

Guys how accurate Saurian trex's tail is? Should it be a bit shorter and thicker?

That's fire

[flat pond]

In what sense?

[summer hearth]

we should make a Megatherium

[mossy anchor]

Could I ask some questions on paleontology as a job? I’m still trying to figure out all the different parts so I can know what I want to do in the future

[cosmic fox]

ye

[wary junco]

Tuojiangosaurus is fun until you realise we don't have the end of the tail and different authors suggest varying numbers of thagomizer pairs

two? three? four? depends who you ask 😂

[timber kiln]

10

[bitter tree]

tell me wth is goin ON

What is this kind of Certosaurs….? ;-;

[stiff osprey]

all 3 of those are Ceratosaurus nasicornis

[pliant cedar]

would make an interesting sub apex, kinda like what duck is at apex tier

[polar scroll]

wow nasicornis is SMALL.

[stiff osprey]

he is a young man

[bright veldt]

Nasicornis is the only cerato species. The rest are lumped into it so it's whatever.

[magic monolith]

Do we know what ceratopsian this is?
I only found it to be "an unnamed ceratopsian"

[white matrix]

anyone able to find good illustrations on hadrosaurs running?

[topaz shell]

I might be able to find one

[normal fable]

It's a new species of pentaceratops from the kaiparowits. Currently undescribed

Here's a sculpt of it that I've had in the works for a while

I've heard it referred to as puggoceratops as well due to its short face. It's just a nickname but I find it to be fitting

[scenic flame]

horns give me antelope vibes with how long, thin and straight they are

[normal fable]

Agreed, I've been kicking around the idea of giving it the same texture as antelope horns with the ridges and what not

[warped peak]

Ooooh do it

I love those ridged horns ungulates have

[river condor]

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02724634.2024.2326027 can someone with access to this article give me an overview of it?

[white matrix]

what brush do you use to make the muscle details

[normal fable]

It's a mix of the clay strips, crease, and draw sharp brushes. I use blender btw

[white matrix]

oh

[river condor]

Thank you so much

[white matrix]

how come we don't call dinosaurs by different names?

for example we call panthera Leo "lions"

[woeful falcon]

Them not being alive is one of the reasons if I had to guess. Don't exactly have the room to develop common names

Though in a way some do. Dromaeosaurids as a whole commonly get referred to as raptors, Velociraptor in particular. Triceratops is often shortened to trike

[fluid inlet]

Saurophaganax from the upcoming dinosaur game extinction. That’s an amazing model.

[bright veldt]

(Just as a heads up the game is most likely a scam for those not in the know)

[fluid inlet]

Well that’s unfortunate if true because damn it looks amazing lol

[white matrix]

what makes you say that?

[topaz haven]

What’s extinction?

[bright veldt]

It's a whole story. I'll send you a link in DMs.

[frigid delta]

in 2024 here we have Koleken for our recent abelisaur
and then there's this guy
https://www.mdpi.com/2813-6284/2/3/9

[warped peak]

https://x.com/justin_an74/status/1473449167997472772

What's the validity of the 8+m Rolfodon specimen?

Justin (정환) (@justin_an74) on X

(open img)
There is a (probable) Rolfodon tooth from Maastrichtian Japan, only discussed in detail in its original description, that indicates a truly massive shark of over 8 metres, making it one of the largest Mesozoic sharks
short 🧵 ⬇️

Twitter · Dec 22, 2021, 12:23 AM

[clear onyx]

I always wonder how daspletosaurus and gorgosaurus would have been like to avoid competing with one another

Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if they actually did directly compete, it's not like there aren't predators that do nowadays (lions and hyenas for example)

[bright veldt]

In healthy ecosystems multiple top-order carnivores have no problem coexisting. There is competition and conflict between them, but it usually doesn't affect overall populations.

[velvet burrow]

So, there's a chance that furileusaurians now originate from Europe? Or at least somewhere else outside of SA?

[storm heron]

Ohohohoho, creativity time.

[sullen cairn]

the taxa grading into furileusauria (ekrixinatoaurus/ilokelesia/skorpiovenator) are all argentine but a furileusaur genusaurus would well predate said taxa so could be either way for all we know

which is further complicated by there being several unstable taxa outside SA that occasionally are resolved as brachyrostrans (rahiolisaurus/dahalokely/arcovenator/that bahariya thing)

[velvet burrow]

Could be that brachyrostra itself had a wider distribution so furileus could've originated somewhere else (maybe Africa, in a somewhat middle point to SA and Europe)

Or a ghost lineage of furileus dating back to the early cretaceous of which a few were airdropped into Europe
Idk it kinda fascinated me how there's this somewhat established endemic taxa and then someone says "Yeah there's a guy in France of all places that pre-dates the ones in SA"

[sullen cairn]

the tragedy of the only good early cretaceous abelisaurs being spectrovenator and rugops

[velvet burrow]

The tragedy of abelisauridae as a whole

[dusky stratus]

can i get one aswell?

[fallen shard]

Can @storm spindle get one as well?

[clear onyx]

Is dakotaraptor's validity still on debate?

[bright veldt]

I mean I guess it always will be since its impossible to firmly answer unless the jerk that has the specimen gives it up, but basically everybody in-the-know believes it to be no longer a viable taxa.

[storm heron]

Woah woah woah, Arcovenator possibly being Brachyrostran?

[sullen cairn]

most topologies based off/following the elemgasem matrix recover brachyrostran arcovenator
granted that comprises a period of only a couple years and iirc caletodraco's description notes the caudal isn't too similar to caletodraco

although la boucharde is considered a potential furileusaur which is same time and place

but they're really not too similar

[storm heron]

Hmm, I see

[sullen cairn]

they both do that kinda droopy thing though which ig would be kinda odd if they were wholly unrelated but thats just me spitballing

[storm heron]

Oh yea, the slight curve. Wonder if that is taphonomic.

[rancid lantern]

Heyo, I've been a long time player but I recently joined the discord. Saw there was a channel for paleontology, so here are some photos from an exhibition that was in my region. Ferrisaurus has only been found in west coast Canada so far.

enjoy

and yes, the fossil is named Buster

[frigid delta]

no way
ferris ship lizard

[rancid lantern]

small but mighty, hence the name Iron lizard

I love the model ref of him, he's so cute

[white matrix]

@bright veldt juvenile shantungosaurus or am I dumb?

[bright veldt]

I'd have no way of knowing.

[white matrix]

I at least know this one is an adolescent

[uneven turtle]

looks like telmatosaurus

wait nvm i think it might be edmontosaurus annectens a young one

[white matrix]

i doubt it, it's in the shantungosaurus exhibit
would make sense whyd you'd think so because shant is just edmont with a gigachad jaw

[uneven turtle]

why didn't you say that?

[rapid vine]

Hello, everyone!

[pliant cedar]

shant is slightly older than ed, i wonder if the tarbo- rex theory can be applied here, unless there is a north american ancestor im not aware of

[rapid vine]

Ed is Edmontosaurus?

[viscid surge]

I’m no expert but If it’s in the shant exhibit I would be inclined to assume it’s shant

[pliant cedar]

yeah

[rapid vine]

Thank you for answer!

[pliant cedar]

what are ur thoughts on the matter anyway

[rapid vine]

Hey guys, what do you think about the design of this Thalassodromeus?

[sullen cairn]

colonize north america, tyrannosaurini: grow over 50% larger than any of your relatives
colonize north america, edmontosaurini: shrink to under 50% previous size

[halcyon cobalt]

edmontos nerfed themselves to give the carnivore’s a fair chance

[rapid vine]

They are so dear!

[rare blaze]

i never understood. did t-rex had something like feathers or it was completely bald?

[magic monolith]

As adult's they most likely didn't need feathers
As juveniles though they may have had at least sparse feathering here and there

[storm heron]

We dont know

[dry otter]

@serene valve this is what miragaia would more likely look like and looking at pot Mira just throws me off a lot

[ionic crescent]

Dacentrurus

[woeful falcon]

No it wouldn't. I believe miragaia is based on this, which is an edit of the same skeletal? But obviously with some changes like not having a million plates
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/913292305006485527/1182925484166746142/Miragaia_longicollum_Dorsal.png?ex=66c58335&is=66c431b5&hm=72cbfd5e921d695897e2ee26006dc7c54dd2b990356b4d0130237378f2c2125c&

What would be better though is this
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFQAS4tXAAAmxx5?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[native kindle]

cisiopurple has done tremendous hurt to people's knowledge about dino depictions lmao

[storm heron]

Ohoho, there has been much more hurt to people's knowledge from other more common sources . . . .

[dry otter]

Oh ok I see thanks m8

[native kindle]

https://academic.oup.com/zoolinnean/article/201/4/zlae090/7736730#478846006

[rapid vine]

Very interesting!

[pliant cedar]

probably a megalosaurid

[magic monolith]

Metricanthosaurid

[pliant cedar]

ah

oh yeah the neural spines

[rose thorn]

I wouldn’t say that. Bro usually does his best to make accurate representations, especially of obscure taxa. Sometimes people just so happen to pick out his older drawings as current depictions of an animal (and many times they simply don’t know he updated that drawing)

[bright veldt]

His reconstructions are largely fine. It just so happens that the art is old. The only critique ik of is that he does not do any scale to speak of. Use a bloody scalebar. A dog, cat, or human without one is vague af.

[tough parcel]

Evil cisiopurple be like: I will include an accurate way to measure the animal

[zinc solstice]

Sometimes the human for scale in those images are wrongly sized like It once made me belive dasp sized Shidaisaurus and Dasp sized Veterupristisaurus existed

[hallow spear]

Id disagree

Andre mentioned something about it and i agree a lot, + I do not think this is cisios aim

[white matrix]

well the size estimates between the largest individuals are still pretty close

[white matrix]

nope. the miragaia in game is very accurate and that image you sent is wrong

[river plinth]

It wasn't completely bald but it did have some kinda like a shinx cat or a elephant

[dry otter]

Ik someone else already lmk

[white matrix]

How accurate is the ex argilla allosaurus mod compared to the in game one

[pliant cedar]

in terms of size its more accurate, but i think the claws are too long

[bright veldt]

It's better than base-game allo.

[pliant cedar]

yeah allo basegame is just a weird sauro

[halcyon cobalt]

ermmm allosaurus maximumus

[ancient crystal]

Is there by some chance a term that includes both the paleozoic and mesozoic eras but exludes the cenozoic?

[woeful falcon]

Don't know that there is. I don't know that there would be reason to be

But in looking it up, I found that there is the Phanerozoic eon, a geological eon which includes Paleozoic, Mesozoic, and Cenozoic

[warped peak]

Basically just any time life existed

[mental slate]

I'm slightly disappointed they didn't have a WWD Big Al skin

[serene moat]

Are these up to date regarding allosaurus bite force irl, smn says allo should do bonebreak ingame

[bright veldt]

Most of these are significantly higher than they should be.

[serene moat]

Oh, what's allos bite force meant to be and the others??

[bright veldt]

Ok nevermind they might be accurate. The big outliters are spino and giga, who are about 50% stronger than they probably should be. I also dunno anywhere that actually has done ceratopsid bite force. Cerato and allo are accurate though.

[fallen shard]

Hello

[serene moat]

Ohhhh fair i thought giga had like 3-4 ton bite force, so allo shouldn't be able to do bonebreak then? Cuz 2k psi doesn't sound bb worthy

[jagged trellis]

what animal ingame wouldn't have some form of bonebreak or bleed lets be real using that logic, even if its stubbing a pinky toe amounts, juvie campto?

[serene moat]

I was just asking bc smn said allo should do bb instead of bleed and said "it used its mouth like an axe, which breaks not cuts" even tho I'm pretty sure axes are designed to slice things with good power, that's why I asked abt the allo part

[jagged trellis]

i know, not fussing on you, just pointing out how odd it is for em to be saying that, where campto bb by that logic yknow, and also game variety

[serene moat]

Ohhh, nvm mb lol

[fossil ingot]

Why is Giga that high😭
Mf doesn't even has a proper one

[fossil ingot]

Rex bites t 48500N which is around 4.8 tons of force
Even Carcha with the paper reached 25k N but with the new skeletal is likely it hitted higher than that, probably 30k

https://peerj.com/articles/13731/

[compact leaf]

@sullen cairn I need the eye burner edmonto chart

[sullen cairn]

New and improved to not actively make one nauseous

[white matrix]

edmont

[compact leaf]

no see I actually want the nausea one

[wraith kindle]

Didn’t spino have bonebreak once? Or is that charged bite I’m thinking of?

[fossil ingot]

It had a charge bite

[serene moat]

Just charge no bb^^

[pliant cedar]

imo a mechanic where bone break can be applied to significantly smaller dinos would be cool

[storm heron]

Im curious, did you ever make one using every Tyrannosaurus specimen?

[outer tusk]

He did

[pliant cedar]

my eyes hurt

[frigid delta]

yet this is the most average meal for t rex (if only t rex didn't get like... bulldozed by those large edmontos on the back)

[magic monolith]

thing is it didn't

[frigid delta]

huh??

[outer tusk]

What is bro yapping about

[magic monolith]

No idea

[hushed fossil]

I need a list of herbivores from the Paleozoic

[scenic flame]

that's gonna be a very big list

[hushed fossil]

The most important ones

I fear the majority of them being synapsids

[velvet burrow]

I mean... what else are they gonna be

[hushed fossil]

Parexisaurs? Or Arthropleurids

[turbid forum]

Arthropleura, edaphosaurus, scutosaurus and more

[hushed fossil]

Thank you. Got more?

[turbid forum]

Elginia and diictodon maybe?

[hushed fossil]

What about bigger ones?

[turbid forum]

Idk paleozoic animals werent the biggest

[hushed fossil]

Like Moschops or Jonkeria

[turbid forum]

Oh yeah I forgot moschops

[wraith kindle]

Lystrosaurus? Though it lived in the very latest Permian and through the mass extinction event and spread everywhere didn't it?

Do you want purely land animals or would aquatics also work?

[zinc solstice]

Could Ceratarges eat algae and other water plants

[hushed fossil]

Both is good

[wraith kindle]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurdiidae Maybe one of the hurdid radiodonts? For invertebrates, it's harder to discern whether they were fully herbivorous or not, but these guys are primarily filter feeders, so, close enough?

[zinc solstice]

Incredibly Random but

Erm, Actually Petrolacosaurus didn't evolve into Edaphosaurus as Petrolacosaurus is a Diapsid and Edaphosaurus is a Synapsid, that's as wrong as saying Dimetrodon evolved into Spinosaurus or Saying Archaeothyris evolved into protorosaurus and For the Person who originally made it, it would've been more accurate to use a Potential Basal amniote like casineria instead of a Diapsid for something evolving into a Synapsid

[wraith kindle]

Given the pokemon/digimon style 'evolution', I doubt that's even halfway serious.

[snow python]

Was Ramphosuchus really 11-12m or smaller? Same about Purussaurus

[magic monolith]

Don’t think rampho is very well understood

[snow python]

I saw this on another group. Iirc rampho was sarco sized and purussaurus 10-11m?

[true cipher]

What’s species of cero is this? (I have no idea)

[magic monolith]

That would be Spinops

[true cipher]

Ty Ty

[bright veldt]

Reliable estimates on rhamph are non-existent. Meanwhile the largest reliable puru is 10m and 6 tons.

[sudden wind]

Jonkeria is omnivore

[hushed fossil]

What? And Titanosuchus too?

[silver canopy]

https://academic.oup.com/view-large/figure/478845996/zlae090_fig26.jpg

...so wait monolopho is a spinosaur?

[turbid forum]

🤓 and diapsids evolved into synapsids (mammal like reptiles)

[hushed fossil]

No

[zinc solstice]

Erm actually, Diapsids Didn't evolve into synapsids, This is Mis info as the oldest Known Synapsid Asaphestera is 100 thousand years older than the oldest Known Diapsid Hylonomus so From That logic, it would make more sense to say Synapsids evolved into Diapsids (Wich is wrong as they did not)

[turbid forum]

Hylonomus is the earliest known true reptile

[zinc solstice]

I know but Synapsids aren't reptiles thats like calling teleocrater a pseudosuchian

[turbid forum]

Synapsids are theyre own group called the mammal like reptiles but theh are still generally considered reptiles

[hushed fossil]

Nope, synapsids and sauropsids are separate

[quasi token]

if synapsids are reptiles, so are proper mammals lol

[zinc solstice]

Mammal like reptiles is outdated they are now called stem mammals and they aren't reptiles Like would you even call Embolomeres amphibians

[turbid forum]

Technically, yes but synapsids are closer to other reptiles

[turbid forum]

Yes but would you call dimetrodon a mammal?

[zinc solstice]

No, that's worse than calling Lagerpeptids dinosaurs

[quasi token]

no, but it's not a reptile either even if it kinda looks like one

[turbid forum]

Ima research lmao

[zinc solstice]

For an example Amniotes aren't synonymous with reptiles like Casineria isn't a reptile for an example it is most likely a basal amniote

And Not all Sauropsids are reptiles I made a mistake, Reptilia is a subgroup in Sauropsida

[turbid forum]

Stem mammals arent nor reptiles nor mammals, they are their own group of transitions FROM reptile to mammal

[zinc solstice]

They aren't transitional from one to another like They aren't they aren't mammals or reptiles and Reptiles didn't evolve into mammals that's a lie

[turbid forum]

A creationist?

[zinc solstice]

No, Reptiles didn't evolve into mammals Synapsids are older than Sauropsids and I'm not a creationist

And Reptilia is a subgroup inside of sauropsida, Search it up it's true

[turbid forum]

Synapsids appeared in the early permian and sauropsids have existed as far back as the carboniferous or maybe more

[zinc solstice]

Bro, Do your research, Look up Archaeothyris a Synapsid from the carboniferous 306 mya

[sullen cairn]

am i missing something here

[fossil ingot]

Sad my Big Caiman is only 6 tons

[zinc solstice]

And Don't forget Asaphestera a Synapsid from the Carboniferous first appearing 318.1 million years ago 100 thousand years before Hylonomus

[turbid forum]

What about the common synapsid-sauropsid ancestors from 320 mya

[zinc solstice]

Casineria the only known candidate for the common ancestor (NOT a reptile but a basal amniote) lived 340 or 338 mya but we don't know if it is as we will never know exactly what is the common ancestor of a thing

[turbid forum]

Idk but lets get to a conclusion.
Synapsids and sauropsids are both reptilian animals that evolved from a common ancestor and not each other. Sauropsids evolved into reptiles and synapsids into mammals

[kindred night]

I need an Aspirin.

For context my academic career and research has focused entirely on non-mammalian synapsids.

The correct term for the transitional group that's previously been referred to as mammal like reptiles is non-mammalian synapsids. They are a transitional group as cynodonts are the direct descendents of crown Mammalia. They aren't stem-mammals because they aren't mammals. Stem-mammals encompasses any extinct basal member of Mammalia that has no living relatives today more or less. Synapsida first appears sometime in the Carboniferous but their exact placement is tenuous because they are so similar to basal sauropsids. Additionally Reptilia in it's modern incarnation is basically Sauropsida (Archelosauria+Lepidosauria). Synapsids are not reptiles by definition.

[turbid forum]

Also idk why but the info I found said that hylonomus would have been like a "final splitting point"

[zinc solstice]

True, maybe not stem mammals but just Maybe Barely Close for some and Close for some But NOT mammals? Idk

[kindred night]

Hylonomus is a Eureptile and is therefore too derived to be a "splitting point".

[turbid forum]

Idk I didnt write it. Also sauropsids and synalsids DID evolve from basal amniotes but also ampjibians

[kindred night]

It's a clear dichotomy. If it's not a mammal it can't be a stem-mammal. Just refer to the grade excluding mammals as non-mammalian synapsids and call it a day.

[turbid forum]

Yeah, the same way you say "non avian dinosaur"

[zinc solstice]

Yeah Non mammalian Synapsids is the best term

[kindred night]

Amphibians in my tree are referring to the monophyletic group of frogs, salamanders and friends, and temnospondyls etc. The sister group to Amniota essentially not the last common ancestor they share with amniotes.

[turbid forum]

Oh, so it means the group that would STAY as amphibians and not the ones like tulerpeton who would evolve into mammals and reptiles

[kindred night]

They aren't staying as amphibians. Amphibia is its own clade that's just as derived as Mammals and Reptiles today. All three groups are derived from early tetrapods like Tulerpeton.

[turbid forum]

Yes and those from lobe-finned fish like tiktaalik and pandericthys

[silver canopy]

The fact mono is classed as a spinosaurid now is freaking wild to me.

I mean it kinda makes sense but..

[zinc solstice]

Isn't it a non Spinosaur megalosauroid instead of a Spinosaurid?

[silver canopy]

Nope apparently it's been classed as an early spinosaur