paleontology

[distant mauve]

Question about anylosaurids what are some early basal members of the clade?

Looks interesting kinda like a stocky mini Argent from that art at least

[zinc solstice]

Does anyone know what the creature in the image that is In the jaws of the coelophysis name I forgot

[stiff osprey]

a drepanosaurid of some kind

[wind prairie]

all parankylosaurs are pretty basal iirc

[flint stream]

mini alamosaurus

[alpine zodiac]

was there any kind of large flora similar to kelp in the triassic ocean?

[bright veldt]

I know kelp itself is purely Cenozoic. Don't know much else unfortunately.

[river plinth]

Huh though they should on 4 irl

[bright veldt]

Camptosaurus was entirely bipedal

[crude latch]

Featherless
Biped
clearly a man

[distant mauve]

Random question what are the current actually valid trodontid species?

[outer tusk]

stenoncyhosaurus

[distant mauve]

Thanks had a hard time finding what is considered valid anymore for trodontids

[bright veldt]

Troodontids as a family have a lot of members. It's just that outside of Stenonychosaurus nobody cares about the rest lmao

[outer tusk]

^^^

[ocean drum]

^

[lavish frigate]

Woah woah woah. What about…ummm…and oh! There’s uh……and…..umm…..

[wind prairie]

don't we have camptosaurid tracks showing quadrupedal walking as well?
theoretically they could still walk like that without pronating their wrists also

[marsh root]

Anyone got an accurate irritator skeletal? I need it for something

[alpine island]

You DON’T care about Zanabazar??? (Had to look that one up to make sure it wasn’t invalid 😭)

[wind prairie]

alaskan troodontid is unnamed but cool

[wind prairie]

what are some differences between troodontids and dromaeosaurids?
I know troodontids on average have a smaller sickle claw and are omnivores but idk anything else

[tough parcel]

The doobus gloobus

[wind prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/flightreacts-gif-20043283 me when over-feathered tyrannosaurid

I do like the shaggy arm displays but IMO they don't belong on tyrannosaurids

[wind prairie]

is shantungosaurus still the biggest hadrosaur? what's its largest weight known compared to largest edmonto

[peak jetty]

Last I checked it still is, though the margin is smaller.

[flint stream]

tbf, thats rlly nice for the coloring, reminds me the color from anole and chicken feather

[bright veldt]

Keep in mind there were other iguanodonts coexisting with campto that could go quad, so most likely it was one of those

[flint stream]

dracornyx ?

[bright veldt]

Uteodon and Cumnoria exist

[flint stream]

i was bitter in confuse, dont camptosaurus belongs to the iguanodontids or early basal member? or that was dryo basal part of the basal ornithopoda

[hushed fossil]

Phylogeny-wise? Cause I think you said the rest lol

[hushed fossil]

Also yes it is the biggest, minimum size estimates put it at 14 tons and some speculate it could reach 18 tons I think

That was not what they asked

[marsh root]

Thanks bro

[serene moat]

Is that shant estimates?

[outer tusk]

I genuinely don't what else it could be

[serene moat]

So they can be 19 tons? That's so thick holy gyatt

[outer tusk]

yeah maybe

[outer tusk]

am surpised nobody has done a revised ver of this

[tacit pine]

Damn.

[pulsar galleon]

Yeah. Largest non-sauropod dinosaur as well. Edmonto is close but huge edmontos are really, really rare whereas literally every shant specimen that’s mature (afaik) is over 11 tonnes.

So shant was likely significantly larger on average

[outer tusk]

it's just larger not on average though

[pulsar galleon]

Yeah I’m saying that the maximum sized Edmontosaurus which are incredibly rare out of an enormous sample size are probably not huge by Shantungosaurus standards.

Shant is larger at maximum sizes with a much smaller sample size.

[sharp canyon]

Bruh look at this nonsense I just came across

[stiff osprey]

I mean, considering the Tyrannosaurus in this image is less than half its actual length... I wouldn't doubt a bengal tiger could kill it

This is like, Nanotyrannus sized

[sharp canyon]

The neck is still way to thick to break

[stiff osprey]

yeah, if it succeeded it would probably be by suffocation

[pulsar galleon]

Definitely could. Not sure that it would in 99% of circumstances

[plush fossil]

Why is its arms positioned like that😭

[sharp canyon]

It's like that old Grizzly vs Rex thing

[pulsar galleon]

The grizzly with his long lasting energy might well win

[stiff osprey]

they are imitating the posture of the t.rex's last descendant... the chicken...

[plush fossil]

Beautiful

[pulsar galleon]

I feel like people really don’t understand how insanely lethal large theropods would be

Komodo dragon scaled up to the size of an elephant…

we can kinda understand the scale of some large herbivorous dinosaurs because things like elephants and rhinoceros exist but no land predator even comes close to a mid size theropod like ceratosaurus

Unless you count crocodilians as land predators but they’re so visually different anyways that it wouldn’t help.

[plush fossil]

That makes me wonder why predators are small and prey is bigger (most of the time anyways)

[pulsar galleon]

easier to get big off of a diet that requires low energy expenditure and effort to sustain

like why baleen whales are so huge; they're effectively herbivorous in terms of how they eat

Literally just open mouth and then swallow. That's all they have to do. That's why there were no gargantuan mosasaurs for example, because sustaining the lifestyle of an active predator at a huge size is incredibly difficult without specific conditions.

and plants/tiny fish/inverts are vastly more abundant than larger prey items.

[stiff osprey]

The very high metabolism of mammals and birds makes a giant active predator especially inviable, dinosaurs (while still warm-blooded) had much lower metabolisms, so they could afford to keep that lifestyle at larger sizes

toothed whales found some way around this I guess

[pulsar galleon]

eating other whales which are very rich in nutrients I suppose

[sharp canyon]

Just had a friend unironically say they think 8-10 wolves could kill a Rex

[pulsar galleon]

8-10 wolves afaik usually don't win against large male brown bears

[plush fossil]

Thanks for answering guys

[light oxide]

Those giant squids must really be nutritious, huh? Lol

[sharp canyon]

Also being bigger can have its benefits in terms of detering predators

[pulsar galleon]

bigger = harder to kill

[sharp canyon]

Bro my friend said some of the wolves could jump on the Rex's back 🙃

[prime burrow]

Jurassic world and it’s consequences

[pulsar galleon]

wolves are well known for their ability to jump 3 meters onto a moving object wdym

[pliant cedar]

my god man im arguing with a guy on quora who still believes in allosaurus hatchet theory
its so annoying omfg

[tough parcel]

Your first and only mistake was assuming people on Quora would be able to comprehend anything beyond what YouTube shorts gives them

[tough parcel]

There's an account of a lone female moose fending off ~10 wolves

[chilly knot]

manga name?

[sharp canyon]

No clue

[chilly knot]

based mammalian cunning panel

its "Jagaaan!"

[white matrix]

have you considered that the awesome coolness energy and mammalian cunning of the big cat would allow it to win any fight

king tiger never loses

kills all gaur and sloth bear and doesn't afraid of anything

[ancient crystal]

Does anyone remember the person who legitimately tried to argue a sabertooth would beat a deinosuchus in a fight?

[white matrix]

it would

smilodon hunted deinosuchus to extinction

[white matrix]

just like how the swift and ferocious spotted hyena hunts grown bull elephants...

[chilly knot]

sigma

[pliant cedar]

that would be like a house cat killing a nile crocodile

[white matrix]

shun the nonbeliever

[pulsar galleon]

a lion hunting a healthy asymptotic male nile croc is pretty impossible let alone a smilodon killing an alligator the size of a bus

[outer tusk]

I mean it's also in a book btw

[wind prairie]

smilodon uses its mammalian cunning to take down the primitive deinosuchus

[wind prairie]

this thing is a freak

[sharp canyon]

In what way? :)

[outer tusk]

wdym a freak

[wind prairie]

it's just a freak
very proportionally long flippers for a pliosaur

[woeful falcon]

noticeably longer than its skull even

[vapid holly]

A freak of upmost nature if you will

[quasi token]

i love how its kind of a reverse sachi (who has comically small flippers instead)

[wind prairie]

anyone remember in dinosaur revolution, there's an episode where a pack of utahraptors is after a baby sauropod but then some other rival gang utahraptors come after it too, and they fight over it amongst themselves and with a crocodile. I wonder if anything like that was possible?
I know there's no way to tell but it's just interesting to me

[jagged trellis]

i mean....yeah, it happens currently, chance has always existed

[outer tusk]

Anything in nature is possible so this is possible

[dreamy steppe]

Bro is a jet

[honest wave]

he's not a freak, he's just.... funkei

[lusty oak]

What are some "equal opposites" of a pachy? (・・?) Like a carnivore of similar stature and even time period? I'm looking to draw a pair of these two dinos (pachy and something else)

[honest wave]

a large to mid-sized dromaeosaur might work

unfortunately the only carnivore of comparable size from its formation is dakotaraptor, which is almost certainly a completely invalid genus

i actually dont think there is any truly equal predator in its ecosystem, maybe just use a juvenile tyrannosaurus

if you just want it to be contemporary, then use this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vertebrate_fauna_of_the_Maastrichtian_stage#

just go through the non-avian theropod section and look for the ones that are about pachy-size

[lusty oak]

Oof yes, I was googling after you said dromaeosaurs and I also landed on Dakotaraptor for matching the time period and size. Why is it invalid? (;_;)
Thanks for the link !!

[woeful falcon]

Chimeric, lot of things about it are sus and its privately owned and they won't let anyone examine the material to scrounge up what material might actually belong to a dromaeosaur

[honest wave]

the skeleton assigned to it is a big ol' chimera

it's full of various different animals, some not even from dinosaurs

you might want to try your luck with some of the smallish abelisaurs. there are numerous from the maastrichtian and theyd pair nicely with the pachy's headgear

[wind prairie]

yes but some parts of dakotaraptor actually are part dromaeosaur, an unnamed one that's big like dakotaraptor was thought to be

[stiff osprey]

or you could just use a juvenile T.rex

[outer tusk]

^^^

[light osprey]

Perhaps the Hell Creek Alioramini Nanotyrannus?

[honest wave]

depends on whether or not the ulna is dromaeosaur or not. if it is, then its a big one for sure. currently we don't know, though, and it seems like it may be from an oviraptorosaur of some kind, most likely anzu.

i would very much like dakotaraptor to be valid, but given how dubious literally every aspect of it is, i am highly doubtful

[tough parcel]

I solved the problem

I eated the holotypes

[honest wave]

you need to stop doing this

[wind prairie]

dakotaraptor ain't valid but there's definitely large dromaeosaur parts in it

[silver canopy]

Does anyone have all the pictures of the old crystal palace dinosaurs

[light osprey]

Don’t think the ulna is the big determing element, there’s also a large Dromaeosaur metatarsal

[wind prairie]

what other large theropods were there in north america by the maastrichtian besides t rex

[sullen cairn]

Albertosaurus and mcraaensis are early maas and atroxicarius may or may not be existent/late maas

And ig depending on how you define “large” nano stuff if you entertain the idea

[wind prairie]

dryptosaurus too actually right

[wind prairie]

btw wth is an atroxicarius

[sullen cairn]

sure but appalachia isn't real north america

[plain stirrup]

anything “wrong” with how this conc looks

[wind prairie]

eh you know what I mean
also it's not hard to imagine alberto may have lived up into the kpg

[sullen cairn]

naashoibito teeth thing

vaguely pointier than rex ish

[wind prairie]

explain
I have no clue what you're talking about lol

[sullen cairn]

ziphodont teeth from naashoibito that are apparently aberrant to rex's dental morphology
supposedly a "bistahieversorin" according to dalmin

[wind prairie]

interesting..

[azure gazelle]

afaik, not too much actually
there may be some things that are off, but the biggest thing is probably the hump/sail, which seems to have been positioned just in front of the hips instead of directly above them

[storm heron]

Return of the late Maastrichtian Blade-toothed Tyrannosaurs

Also, are the teeth of Bistahieversor's really ziphodont/thinner than other Tyrannosaurines? I ask because I remember there being conflicting conclusions/descriptions regarding its teeth (or I may very well be misremembering).

[lucid ibex]

Is he ugly on purpose

[plain stirrup]

crazy

[flint stream]

nope

[sullen cairn]

bistah being scored as ziphodont has been kinda inconsistent but it has been mentioned before

[flint stream]

its look accurate btf. i like the quills, god that lovely skin is perfect so good

[snow python]

Are there any estimates for Pete III? Wikipedia says 11m and 5t but that's an exaggeration

[stiff osprey]

I estimated it at 9.9-10.2m and 3.5-4 tonnes, but that may be too small

[lusty oak]

I liked this idea so much but struggled so hard to find any small abelisaur in North America, that I'm just scaling down a Carnotaurus o(｀∇´ )o Thank you

[outer tusk]

What

[dreamy steppe]

Well the arms

[azure fable]

Should PT devs change Daspletosaurus Profundis to Daspletosaurus Wilsoni

[final dome]

Guhhhhhhhh

Broken wrists?

[sharp canyon]

I think that's just cause of the camera angle

[plush fossil]

Or it's because it looks like it's from a jp game

Dunno tho

[lunar copper]

its a mod from what i can tell, probably using an existing animal's rig, so yeah it'll have pretty clapped wrists

[sharp canyon]

Official Conca

[lunar copper]

reminds me a lot of an old JWE mod, from the original game lol

[subtle vale]

YES IT HAS LIPS

[tacit pine]

Looks cool

[tacit pine]

no its official

[lunar copper]

gathered that after second comment

[fossil ingot]

I have seen 10.1m and 4 tonnes.
So close I guess?

[outer tusk]

no

[fossil ingot]

How Big is Pete III then.
Bigger or smaller

[outer tusk]

1 mertic inch is how big it is

[fossil ingot]

Fair

[wind prairie]

what are some cool things about daspletosaurus that make it unique?

[outer tusk]

it's big and the name is cool

[wind prairie]

are there any exceptionally large extinct octopuses known? Like proper octopuses not squids or almost octopuses like encho

[bright veldt]

Haboroteuthis is basically an actual late cretaceous giant squid

[wind prairie]

would the most accurate reconstruction for it be just kinda like a giant squid like old depictions of tusoteuthis and enchoteuthis were?

what is the current name for this creature? I've heard it called chlamydoselachus goliath (in the same genus as the modern frill shark), rolfodon, and proteothrinax

[warped peak]

TLDR the naming crap was botched and it's supposed to be Proteothrinax, but it's currently Rolfodon

[wind prairie]

djadokta fauna like velociraptor, protoceratops, citipati and the like surviving up until the KPG isn't that insane of speculation is it?

[bright veldt]

Basically

[sudden wind]

It's Proteothrinax as P.goliath iirc cause Rolfodon is a junior synonym.

[warped peak]

I love Proteothrinax and need to get back to making a model for it

[narrow cypress]

What dinos lived in what we call spain now?

[crude latch]

Iirc Pyroraptor lived in parts of Spain and other areas

[junior dawn]

whats spain

(concavenator, lohuecotitan, pelecanimimus, pararhabdodon, vallibonavenatrix and the other 20 spinosaurs, and more!)

[sharp canyon]

I thought Pyro was French

[native kindle]

it is also french

[narrow cypress]

Ok ty

[crude latch]

Found footprints in Spain iirc

[tough parcel]

Erm...don't you mean Baryonyx...?

[junior dawn]

[bright veldt]

We don't even have pyroraptor feet

[wary junco]

we only have the second toe claws of Pyroraptor, aka the part of the foot that wouldn't be preserved in a footprint haha

[crude latch]

I’ve been lied to

[light osprey]

There is some referred material from Spain

[wary junco]

If you're referring to the isolated teeth, my understanding is they're no longer assigned to cf. Pyroraptor and are now just Dromaeosauridae indet.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/spp2.1419

[ionic crescent]

Several footprints as well, which are also assigned to it too (d indet)

@wary junco but iirc there was some other stuff

Lemme check

Yep
"Additional material from the Vitória Formation and the Tremp Group, both in Spain, was referred to Pyroraptor, including five pedal digits, one manual digit, a piece of a metacarpal, a right radius, a dorsal vertebra, and a tail vertebra."

[wary junco]

I've seen these claims before but I've never managed to find anything to verify them, there doesn't seem to be any literature on them that I can find (all papers I can find are regarding the ?Pyroraptor teeth) and other repositories like PBDB don't seem to list them

could you point me in the right direction if you've managed to find more info on them? I'd love to read more about them

[tough parcel]

I just looked and Pyroraptor's holotype is a claw from the foot so if you are believing any sort of claim regarding Pyroraptor, then huh

[sullen cairn]

pyroraptor and its referrals are like dromaeosaurus if dromaeosaurus legit sucked

[wary junco]

yeah I just don't believe any claims of footprints that we can 100% attribute to Pyroraptor lmao because how does that even work

[junior dawn]

maybe we should be faithful to the name pyroraptor and just burn it

[tough parcel]

True!!!!

[wind prairie]

the only reason pyroraptor is as popular as it is is because of its name

[wind prairie]

https://vxtwitter.com/robokaseki/status/1801897540419477734?t=_qGMRY5j8Nv5LkpBEwi7fg&s=19

[elfin pulsar]

Heads up wrong place

[sullen cedar]

Thank ants I thought I opened modding cause I saw the pyroraptor talk and sergi

[elfin pulsar]

No problem, figured I’d lyk before you typed a whole thing out haha

[wind prairie]

how

[elfin pulsar]

Not you

[wind prairie]

do we have any evidence of how specifically an albertosaurus pack would work
only family members right?

[ionic crescent]

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1671/0272-4634(2000)020[0404%3AANGODD]2.0.CO%3B2

From this document (I was asleep)

[wary junco]

This is the original paper describing Pyroraptor, and all the material referred here was collected in France, not Spain

[ionic crescent]

It was the reference attached, lemme see if I can find anything of the Vitoria and Tremp digsites

[ionic crescent]

http://www.fossilworks.org/cgi-bin/bridge.pl?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=13331

Somehow I can't access the website, don't know if you can

[wary junco]

I've found teeth referred to ?Pyroraptor from the Tremp formation, and additional teeth from around Vitoria but no postcrania from what I can see.

[ionic crescent]

There wasn't postcranial, only pedal and manual digits, metacarpal and dorsal & tail vertebra

All the teeth were reassigned recently to Dromaeosauridae indet. Tho

[wary junco]

What do you think postcrania are?

[ionic crescent]

Apologize my dumbass brain as I'm lacking my morning coffee (I'm still half dead)

@wary junco I'm trying to find any of those but either the pages are taken down or just nothing shows up

I could try asking if any of our affiliated universities had somehow access to the original articles regarding those?

But unsure

[regal schooner]

Did Ankylosaurus get downsized to 4,4 Tons? If not can yall send me a recent study on its size if yall have one

[wary junco]

I can't access fossilworks but I can't see anything anywhere else that suggests the referred material is from Spain, the parts you described are literally in the original description of the animal and are said to be from La Boucharde

[trim abyss]

Pyro's material is from Argiles et Grès à Reptiles, Bouches-du-Rhône location, which is in France, and closer to Italy than Spain.

[ionic crescent]

Yeah, I can see it, it was the article quoted in the section of the Spanish stuff, so I guess someone missed the correct quote

[regal schooner]

Vhat

[wary junco]

Yeah I think whoever wrote that wikipedia article misinterpreted the original paper, weirdly the next section on that page also indicates that because Some teeth from North Eastern Spain have been compared to those referred to Pyroraptor, suggesting that Pyroraptor may have also inhabited Spain is a strange sentence if we already have postcrania referred to it from Spain

[ionic crescent]

Yeah but then we have the Trend Formation with some quote and said postcranial stuff there

But then the web is down and nobody can access it

Why this needs to be so confusing

I haven't found anything interesting about Vitória one, and the only one is basically locked behind Catalonia

[wary junco]

I don't know if we do, we have referred Pyroraptor material from Tremp but it's the teeth that are now Dromaeosauridae Indet. and even in recent papers summarising theropods of Iberia they only ever mention the teeth. There is no mention of any postcrania from Tremp

[ionic crescent]

Yeah, this is confusing as hell

But in Tremp besides the broken tooth there was this other stuff attached

But then again, there's no articles rn about those so I guess I gotta cope lol

[wary junco]

^^as I said before, the elements in the picture are referred to in the original description paper and are from the La Boucharde locality, not Tremp

[wary junco]

there is an article, it's just the original description from La Boucharde 😂

[ionic crescent]

Definitely gonna cope with it as someone did a huge oops then

https://www.mindat.org/taxon-4966365.html

On the other hand I finally found something about the Vitória stuff

But somehow has no proper spanish references attached besides the teeth one

[wary junco]

yeah that's all I've ever been able to find for Spanish Pyroraptor, the teeth that are now Dromaeosauridae Indet. haha

[ionic crescent]

The other articles that I found referring to Pyroraptor are basically locked and unless you ask the authors (POV: they are catalonian), nothing

So, I guess Pyroraptor in Spain is a possibility (since animals move and migrate) but, at the moment, unlikely

[wary junco]

yeah I wasn't really debating 'is it plausible?' because it really wouldn't shock me if we did find it there eventually, just speaking from a 'do we have any credible evidence now?' POV and I don't think we can say we do

[ionic crescent]

Well, hoping we do in a future. Pyroraptor is such a cool name, and would be even better if it turned out an unenlagine lol (because shoreline hunter and all that)

[plain stirrup]

does this resemble more of achillo or utah

[junior dawn]

utah, but could maybe say achillo too since achillo is reconstructed using mostly utah
but it lacks the longer legs it seems

[small geyser]

Yeah the stocky body just screams Utah to me

[pliant cedar]

utah ish

[tough parcel]

Both are perfectly valid answers since Achillo is just Utahn't due to scarcity of material and without any other point of reference, there's no way to say anything else

[outer tusk]

^

[crude latch]

What are some of like the strangest prehistoric reptiles out there

[pulsar galleon]

Guanlingosaurus is really weird

Spinosaurus is an easy answer

Stomatosuchus, the throat pouch croc with an enormous head

[crude latch]

Talking like longisquama levels of weird

[crude latch]

wtf

[warped peak]

Average Ichthyosaur

[pulsar galleon]

Ichthyosaurs are freaks of nature

[pulsar galleon]

Stomatosuchus

[crude latch]

Love stamato

[pulsar galleon]

This is not a dinosaur

oh the image didn’t load

[crude latch]

L

[quasi token]

-Hector's icthyosaur, less weird as much as why are you that big
-Tanystropheus, kind of an obvious pick but still
-Albertonectes, see above
-Whatever tf Atopodentatus is doing
-Predator X/Pliosaurus funkei (why are your flippers that big)
-Snakes, just generally
-Kronosaurus (why are you flat)
-Eurhinosaurus
-Turtles, just generally again

[pulsar galleon]

The Triassic was weird

[crude latch]

Ngl I’m surprised I already know about all of these or most

[quasi token]

a lot of the weird ones are famous due to being weird tbf

[pulsar galleon]

Hector’s ichthyosaur is funny because we figured out why the measurements were weird and now it’s like solidly a blue whale rival when based on any other large shastasaurid

[crude latch]

The best goober

[quasi token]

oh yeah shout out to that one triassic thing with the leg-wings (i forgot the name D:)

[crude latch]

Sharovipteryx

[pulsar galleon]

Tuataras are also really weird

[quasi token]

yeah that one, goober didn't read the wing instruction manual right

but yeah like, half of triassic reptiles could qualify for this, really was a weird time

[wary junco]

Notosuchia are a good grab bag of weird crocodylomorphs, for example Yacarerani and its dentition because why is it like that

alternatively there are the ones that are getting weirdly mammalian, Pakasuchus I'm talking to you why do you have mammal teeth

and let's not even get started on Poposauroidea

[outer tusk]

is there's a woolly mammoth speicmen around 10 tonnes?

[warped peak]

Sillosuchus my beloved

[bright veldt]

The biggest one is 8 tons I believe

[outer tusk]

ight'

[strange bridge]

Day 145 of no elephant seal
wait wrong chat this isnt modding

[bright veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/elephant-seal-running-run-seal-big-gif-21499846

[sterile trail]

Opinion of the validity of literally any Troodontid

[bright veldt]

It's just Troodon itself being dead. There's like 30 other perfectly valid troodontids in Troodontidae, including Stenonychosaurus which is basically just Troodon under a different name.

[distant mauve]

What are some of the largest prosauropodomorphs that we are aware of?

[bright veldt]

The largest non-sauropod sauropodomorphs are Yunnanosaurus and Plateosaurus

There's one currently being described I think (probably a species of Aardonyx last I was told) that's like double their size though

[elfin pulsar]

Double??? Dang

[warped peak]

Alright on the topic of Elephant Seals

Are the largest Pontolis specimens bigger than them or not?

[bright veldt]

The current largest recorded male southern elephant seal was about 5 tons, so probably not. Although with typical individuals I wouldn't be surprised if Pontolis reached similar metris on average.

[halcyon cobalt]

what abt ledumahadi?

[outer tusk]

ledu is like less than 5 tonnes

[bright veldt]

It's also a proper sauropod believe it or not

One of the most basal but it is one

[outer tusk]

omg ark lied to me waaaahaaaaa!!! ( wait what does it look like now )

[sweet field]

hupehsuchus

[warped peak]

Eretmorhipis > Hupehsuchus

[wind prairie]

shringasaurus > eretmorhipis

[scenic flame]

from rooting around KoI I've seen statements of 16 meters and 12 tons

[wind prairie]

some things we know about WWD 2:
hell creek/lance/whatever episode focused on rex and triceratops
cedar mountain episode focused on gastonia and/or utahraptor
lourinha episode focused on lusotitan
kem kem episode focused on spinosaurus
"alberta episode"
and then unknown

while I hope the remaining episode is ischigualasto, if it's not it's prob jurassic and I'd say solnhofen would be a cool setting. I think the protagonist for the alberta episode could be a troodontid potentially

[bright sluice]

All troodontids are dead

So what's the current thinking on whether dinosaurs could make sound that isn't just hissing or huffing. I know they found a pinacosaurus voicebox, did that change anything?

[topaz shell]

People is bruhath still a sauropod?

[stiff osprey]

no but also yes

Bruhathkayosaurus is based on an ilium which may be a theropod and is too poorly documented to talk about anyway, but there ARE giant sauropod bones from the same time and place

[topaz shell]

Ok thanks

[bright veldt]

It's a bit too messy at this stage to really take seriously yeah

[bright sluice]

Do you think the dinosaurs in the game could eventually work out a working ecosystem?

[stiff osprey]

Wayy too many predators in the 1 tonne + range

Pycno, Metri, Das, Allo, Cerato, Rex, Alio (as an adult). You can have 3 of those in the same ecosystem tops

[bright sluice]

There are a lot I guess lol

Do you think any of them would be able to carve out a niche? And which ones would go extinct?

[stiff osprey]

Whichever ones reproduced the fastest I guess would take over

[warped peak]

Rex just wins by default

[stiff osprey]

Rex probably laid a lot of eggs and is the only one able to take on things like Eotrike or Bars (or Anodonto if we use POT's Ankylo sized version), so I think rex makes it

[bright sluice]

I feel like laten and deinon would either come into conflict a lot or be separated by nocturnal vs diurnal, they seem like they'd be pretty adaptable

[stiff osprey]

Laten and Deinon will be fine because small predator diversity is naturally pretty high

Dasp might not cope well with not being the largest carnivore in the area though. And Allo is just Metri but better

[bright sluice]

The herbivores would probably have too much predation stress considering there's more carnivores on the roster than herbivores, (I think)

[stiff osprey]

The existance of T.rex just no sells Amargasaurus lmao

I think Stego and Kentro could survive though. And obviously the herbivores that already coexisted with tyrannosaurs would be fine

[bright sluice]

Especially if you count flyers

Microraptor would probably be pretty safe up in the trees doing it's own thing? Especially if it's insectivorous, not much in-game competition for that food source

[topaz shell]

Unless we get more sauropods I doubt allo would last long. (Bias)

[stiff osprey]

Micro's fine, Rhamph's fine, Hatz and Thalasso might compete with each other? But we have multiple different sized azhdarchids in many places so I think all the flyers are fine

[bright sluice]

Would cerato clash with conca? If metri is already outcompeted by allo, would conca also be?

[bright veldt]

Realistically cerato is double conca's size despite the similar dimensions

[stiff osprey]

Hard to judge Conca's survivabity since we know fk all about its environment

[topaz shell]

How would the aquatics play into this?

[bright sluice]

They'd be doing mostly their own thing i imagine

[stiff osprey]

Cerato is used to being bullied so I don't think T.rex being added into the mix would necessarily affect it. But I have no idea how Pycno fits into it

[bright sluice]

How would a stego and tyrannosaurus react to each other I wonder?

[topaz shell]

Would stego and mira compete? (Doubt it)

[bright veldt]

A stego probably wouldn't care? Big predator is big predator. Stego and mira also coexisted.

[stiff osprey]

Depending on how you believe Carnotaurus hunted, Pycno either competes with Allo or with Conca

[bright sluice]

Oh yeah I forgot that carnos hunt style was still debated

[bright veldt]

Im in the more general apex predator camp

[bright sluice]

Isn't it similar with allo? Or has allos hunting methods been cleared up?

[stiff osprey]

Abelisaurs grow faster than allosauroids, which would give Pycno an edge over Allo. But we don't know how many eggs either one laid, and Allo is known to be highly adaptable, so idk which one would be more succesful

[bright veldt]

Allosaurus was just a generalist overall to our knowledge (probably with a preference for smaller prey given its large arms and having to deal with kleptoparasitism from bigger carnivores)

[acoustic yarrow]

Carno seems more like a large cursorial predator with a preference for small prey when you look at it's jaws

[bright sluice]

I think the concept of which dinosaurs of each formation would survive if two formations were to suddenly be put together

[sullen cairn]

which allosaurus we talking about

[bright veldt]

The issue with the jaws for small prey thing is that its jaws weren't actually that weak, and their flexibility can have its applications in large prey handling too

[acoustic yarrow]

Well the shape of the jaws seem like they would be unsuitable for large prey or even ripping chunks of meat out of large carcasses. Conca would probably be outcompeted by alio in this case

[bright sluice]

Why are path of Titans dinosaurs so oversized often anyways?

[bright veldt]

The oversizing thing in PoT is overblown. The vast majority of the roster is perfectly fine size-wise

[sullen cairn]

i was gonna say vibeo game but yeah that too

[acoustic yarrow]

POT allo is basically saurophaganax

[bright veldt]

Allo, Eotrike, Thalasso, Sarco, Achillo, and Bars are the major offenders but that's about it

[bright sluice]

Oh is it? I always hear people complain about how big stuff is

[stiff osprey]

the oversize of POT's dinosaurs is not relative to any objective standard anyway, it's just relative to the default unity human model or something

[acoustic yarrow]

Alio would likely do well I think but depends on the environment

[bright veldt]

Alio would be the fastest theropod in its environment. It'd probably be fine.

[stiff osprey]

the juvenile rex in question:

[bright veldt]

Fair enough but aside from that

[stiff osprey]

that said alio was able to survive alongside juvenile Tarbosaurus, so if it was just Alio and rex it would be fine

[sullen cairn]

pot community when you call large material separated from the type by an entire seaway half of which doesn't overlap spinosaurus: fine
pot community when you call large material from the same formation as allosaurus and regarded by multiple workers as allosaurus referable to allosaurus: evil

[bright veldt]

The spino thing isn't by choice tbf. It's a mess paleontology refuses to try and address and I hate it.

[sullen cairn]

neospinus gigakemkemensis

[stiff osprey]

spinosaurus has an advantage in which the known adult material only varies by ~300% in size and not 1000%

[acoustic yarrow]

If we are using the PoT aquatic fauna then sucho and maybe spino would struggle

[sullen cairn]

tbf this thing is still really stupid even if the largest allo is only ~3t

[stiff osprey]

I love spinosaurus but i'm not sure it would survive long in an environment with deinosuchus-sized sarcosuchus

[bright veldt]

Half n' half on that. Suchomimus wasn't that much bigger and it seemed to do alright

[bright sluice]

Would megalania stand a chance with all the dinosaurs around?

[topaz shell]

They would probably evolve to be more aboreal

[acoustic yarrow]

Spino could live in an environment like panjura since it would be hard for sarco to cross long stretches of land. In game megalania could survive but IRL megalania would be gone soon

[bright veldt]

Monitor lizard would do monitor things. I don't think there'd be an issue. It's a major mesopredator in its own right at the size that it is.

[stiff osprey]

Megalania would probably become a lot smaller to avoid competing with the clusterfk of theropods, we don't have any mesozoic lizards bigger than like a water monitor (except in the oceans)

[bright sluice]

Amarga would be dead as hell for sure right?

[acoustic yarrow]

There is already paleosaniwa though which would compete with megalania if it did adapt to be smaller

[bright veldt]

Probably yeah. Goannas get so big comparatively because of a lack of significant carnivorous mammal competition.

[topaz shell]

I hate the ingame paleo

[bright sluice]

Did amargas sails vs spines get cleared up at all now that I'm thinking of it?

[sullen cairn]

scaling with this amarga is probably like 30t so its fiiiine

[stiff osprey]

I forgot paleosaniwa was a thing, yeah megalania might be screwed then

Although multiple species of monitor of similar size can coexist so

[bright veldt]

The thing with amarga is that we do have sauropods coexisting with significantly bigger theropods. It's nothing new. Clearly they were defending themselves. Exactly how we don't really know.

[bright sluice]

Weird, I wonder how

[wind prairie]

what is the most underrated dinosaur? not counting things underrated by mainstream media (deinocheirus, miragaia, things like that) because we all love those making them not underrated

[acoustic yarrow]

Coelosaurs are over rated

[bright veldt]

I kinda doubt this claim considering saltasaurus didn't reach those metrics and that tends to be what people put the speculative adult size at. Still bigger than carno but not that absurd.

[wind prairie]

bad take no dinosaur is overrated

[sullen cairn]

i bet a couple pycnonemosaurus adultspecimenensis could kill a rex

[stiff osprey]

Supersaurus doesn't have a single media appearance outside of dinosaur king which is just unbelievable

[quasi token]

incorrect, fossil fighters

[bright veldt]

Baro and Super are both absolute kings of their time that're overshadowed yeah

[acoustic yarrow]

Most people don't even know any non-coelosaur theropods

[wind prairie]

supersaurus is neat yeah, diplodocid with proportions kind of like a macronarian

[stiff osprey]

fossil fighters is not real it was someone's dream they accidentally wished into reality

[sullen cairn]

i feel like thats kinda cheating when most people can only name one or two theropods flat

[bright veldt]

Carnotaurus is also one of the most popular non-trex theropods

[acoustic yarrow]

I guess you have a point

[wind prairie]

spinosaurus, giganotosaurus, allosaurus... there are plenty people know

[stiff osprey]

Xinjiangtitan is super underrated but that's only because until 5 years ago we only had the least interesting parts of its body preserved

[wind prairie]

FF is a great game tho

[sullen cairn]

doesn't jurassic world the game have supersaurus

supersaurus nasicornis...

[stiff osprey]

since we lack the skull of supersaurus it technically cannot be disproven that it was actually a rhinoceros

[quasi token]

rhino supersaurus vs building supersaurus, choose your fighter /j

[crude latch]

Thermonuclear fission supersaurus

[stiff osprey]

unsure whether Tyrannotitan is underrated, because the only reason people like it is to show how quirky it is that they aren't picking Giga or Carch

[sullen cairn]

what did chrome mean by this

[wind prairie]

what makes tyrannotitan special at all
genuinely I couldn't tell you a thing about it aside from "another big carcharodontosaur"

[topaz shell]

How big was camptosaurus compared to allo?

[stiff osprey]

it's better preserved than carcharodontosaurus but better described than giganotosaurus. that's it

[bright veldt]

The thing with tyrannotitan is that its remains are actually decent without it being acro. Meraxes kinda stole this from it too though.

[wind prairie]

well according to falcon... (I know it's not compared to allo but)

[bright veldt]

The biggest camptos were bigger than cerato at least.

[sullen cairn]

i hope meraxes dosensis is described soon

[wind prairie]

ooh? new species?

[stiff osprey]

actually it's meraxes gigas extragigas

the abstract explicitly says it is the same species after all

[wind prairie]

btw is it accurate to portay all carcharodontosaurs with that enlarged toe because of meraxes?

[sullen cairn]

i love ai

[stiff osprey]

why are all these images just showing up as blurred gradients

I like that the AI put "giganotosaurus" and "detailed information missing" together on its own

[acoustic yarrow]

I one time asked AI to generate an image of beelzebufo and it made something satanic

[sullen cairn]

can't forget mighty ceratovenator, killer of suchomimus as well

[bright veldt]

How do we tell him

[sullen cairn]

lmao

[bright sluice]

So my real question is, if I were to write a story about the roster of this game, is there any way i could cheese it to where they could all live together without some dinosaurs immediately going extinct? Whether it be letting metri and stuff having their venom and special abilities and whatnot?

[bright veldt]

I mean habitat partionining would probably go a decent way

[bright sluice]

True

[acoustic yarrow]

Maybe if you can change the environment and just give some creatures random adaptations which is basically what the devs did and would make it even more accurate to the game. You would likely also need more diversity among the smaller creatures for an actual ecosystem though

[bright sluice]

True, more herbivore too id imagine?

Cause herbivores outnumber carnivores as a default right?

[acoustic yarrow]

Yeah the herbivore to carnivore diversity ratio is like jurassic park the lost world level

[bright veldt]

Truth be told you don't need to have herbivore diversity outnumber carnivore diversity to make it work. The population numbers are more important.

[bright sluice]

And as the other person said, I could make creatures live in different environments, so like creatures not adapted to say, a desert, wouldn't clash with ones that are very often

[bright veldt]

Shoutout to La Brea

[wind prairie]

based

[acoustic yarrow]

Well most of the carnivores in the game are quite specialized meaning more herbivore diversity would likely be needed

[bright veldt]

Theres's 6 different 50+ kg cats alone. Forget about everything else.

[bright sluice]

Though I do have to ask, say a creature adapted to a forest or grassland wandered into a desert or savanna, they'd die right? Cause they can't go as long without water and the heat? But if an arid dino wandered into a grassland, it's not like being able to access water more reliably is gonna hurt it

Or am I like completely blanking on something?

[acoustic yarrow]

It's not going to hurt it but it's longer intestines and adaptations would likely inhibit them in some way that would lead to them being outcompeted by indigenous species

[bright sluice]

Like the forest, sure, it wouldn't be used to hunting in a dense environment

[bright veldt]

Deserts often lead to specialization to adapt to said conditions, and that can mean going into more hospitable environments means more generalist competition

[wind prairie]

not asking about the likelihood of pack hunting but is it even possible dinosaurs could have the cognitive ability to hunt together like wolves?

[acoustic yarrow]

It would probably niche partition in some way before going extinct but it definitely wouldn't outcompete the native species @wind prairie Probably, moderate levels of cognition have evolved numerous times and I don't think it is dependant on the time period in most cases so if there were pack hunting synapsids there definitely could be pack hunting dinosaurs

[bright sluice]

Longer intestines?

[bright veldt]

Probably not as coordinated but social gatherings are well-recorded in theropods at this point. Did they hunt in groups? We can't say for sure but I don't see why they wouldn't have in at least some cases. No predators get social for group-hunting to begin with. It's just sort of a benefit that's discovered after the fact.

[bright sluice]

And the generalist creatures would outcompete? Cause they can take full advantage of the environment whereas an arid climate creature wouldn't know how/be able to?

[bright veldt]

More that said generalists are already better adapted to said environment and are better prepared to deal with its unique challenges

[acoustic yarrow]

@DEMON HONKER Desert animals evolve longer intestines to utilise more of the water and food they ingest but in a grassland habitat this would just be wasted calories to develop but may help them if they adapt to be more lethargic

[bright sluice]

Makes sense, I also imagine some partitioning not only by environment, but also activity schedules? Like being nocturnal?

[acoustic yarrow]

Yes that could be possible but yet again there are probably already species who have exploited nocturnal niches there. Seasonal changes could lead to desert animals being more successful though since they are already adapted for extreme temperatures

[bright veldt]

Could be. For a la brea example there's Homotherium. Homotherium was diurnal, which is very unusual for a cat. Probably so it could be active during a time when most of its big competition wasn't.

[bright sluice]

Maybe I'll just throw a mountain range inbetween them lol

[acoustic yarrow]

Or you could have seasonal changes as I mentioned before but that would require a more extensive map and just having a natural barrier would probably be easier

[bright sluice]

I thought you meant seasonal changes would lead to desert animals being more successful in a different environment? Did I misunderstand?

[acoustic yarrow]

In a place with seasonal changes desert animals could more easily expand into other habitats but adaptation would still be required

[bright sluice]

This is confusing lol

[acoustic yarrow]

I may have gotten lost in the replies and confused you with something you didn't ask for so I suggest you read a little on it

[wind prairie]

https://twitter.com/grap23k/status/1802113206455848963 help me

The Ball Grappler 𓃻 (@grap23k) on X

Could YOU 🫵 survive a Cretaceous Forest ?
If you've ever wondered, here's a game for you:

Where are the predators ?

Twitter · Jun 15, 2024, 10:57 PM

[bright veldt]

very well hidden but I think this is it?

[wind prairie]

that's the only one I saw, I saw someone say there are 3 things in the image
it also says predators so yeah I think there's 2 more

[bright veldt]

the grainyness aint helping

[crude latch]

Ye-

[wind prairie]

yeah it really doesn't lol

[topaz shell]

I think there’s only one

[wind prairie]

someone in another disc said "hint there's 3"

[crude latch]

It’s a stretch but maybe? Bottom right corner

[wind prairie]

this looks a little sus but idk

[topaz shell]

Eh? (Ima outline it)

[crude latch]

Could be smth going on here to-

[wind prairie]

maybe???

[dreamy relic]

Does anyone know any somewhat large and unique animal that lived in the Ciechocinek Formation that's not Emausaurus and thats also not undetermined?

I remember there being a small Therapod in there but it's likely undetermined as well

I only have Emausaurus and Saurohynchus to work with💀🙏

[topaz shell]

Three acros

[wind prairie]

what is the current thought on smilodon pack hunting? homotherium too while we're at it

[halcyon cobalt]

guess who’s heavier

[peak jetty]

Man if I see one more person refer to Sachi's weight estimates going up as a "size buff" ...

Paleo enthusiasts try not to powerscale and sound like MMA fans challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)

[tulip dove]

IIrc, it was in one documentary but I can't remember the exact name of the doc itself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7m3AYEVB_8&pp=ygUWU3VwZXJzYXVydXMgc2NyZWVudGltZQ%3D%3D This one

[stiff osprey]

Deer in the jungle when the tiger stands really still:

[stiff osprey]

Oh yeah fair enough

[zinc solstice]

@wary fable it is still mostly agreed now that sinornithosaurus wasn't venomous

[wary fable]

We can agree it’s not but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t as we will never know from just fossilized bones

[zinc solstice]

@wary fable yeah I get that but it's mostly agreed now that it wasn't venomous @mighty dagger If it was venomous where's the places in the skull where it's stores venom

[wary fable]

Venom glands are flesh not bone

[zinc solstice]

Why weren't its teeth hollow to inject venom or were they

[wary fable]

It’s teeth had grooves just like a snake

[zinc solstice]

Yeah but that doesn't mean it was venomous there are animals with grooves on its teeth that aren't venomous so other than that there really isn't that much evidence

[wary fable]

Also here is a venomous snake skull as you can see no venom holding things as venom glands are flesh so you can think that there is no venom in the Sinornithosaurus but you could be wrong or could be right

[mighty dagger]

It very well could have been mildly venomous/ an early example of its species gaining venom

[zinc solstice]

But still the relatively wide furrows in the teeth are not consistent with what is seen in the teeth of creatures known to have venom-delivery systems in their teeth.

[wary fable]

Sinornithosaurus seems to have venom delivery systems too here is a example

Also snakes have a postorbital venom gland which is made of flesh not bone

[zinc solstice]

Still not that much evidence but we most likely will never know could just be hollow for other reasons

[wary fable]

Both teams have a reason to think that though non venom believers can say there is absolutely no proof but venom believers can say due to its dangerous area it may have needed it

[mighty dagger]

You're talking about the results of millions of years of evolution in modern times. The rattlesnake didn't go From a Gartner to Deaths Whip in a decade

[zinc solstice]

But still is there any more evidence for it to be even more likely

[mighty dagger]

It's having venom is not Irrefutable, but it's not having venom isn't Undeniable either: I would call it an early example of dinosaurs Experimenting with venom delivery systems

[wary fable]

I see why people say it does have venom though in the Cretaceous china could be dangerous for a creature around the size of a cat

[zinc solstice]

It wouldn't need venom to survive as it being one of the largest tree climbing animals where it lived at the time it was alive could just live in the safety of the trees

[wary fable]

But it needed to eat and creatures slightly bigger then it like Psittacosaurus might need a dose of venom to be taken down

[zinc solstice]

Didn't it not live with taco? Il go check

Okay it was microraptor that didn't live in the Yixian formation not Sinornithosaurus

[mighty dagger]

we would need to look at closer relatives to the Sino to understand its possible biology first. Did they have grooved teeth? were its ancestors and descendants larger or smaller?

[compact leaf]

the tooth grooves are regarded as not indicating any sort of venom delivery system, is it possible? sure, is it likely? no

[nocturne merlin]

yea just read up on it, even baboons have tooth grooves, are they venomous? nope

[mighty dagger]

Gila monsters have grooved teeth, are they Venomous? yes

[wary fable]

there is no is it likely it’s a 50 - 50 we can say well baboons but I can say snakes have grooves and that goes against it right also baboons are not related to this creature

[nocturne merlin]

other dromaeosaurs had similar grooves, not venomous again

[compact leaf]

snakes are also not closely related to them

[wary fable]

But birds are and birds don’t have grooves unless they are venomous

Now I will give a point to non venom believers venomous birds are not likely but this is a prehistoric species so it’s possible

Also you can use Dromaeosauridae to say it’s not venomous but we don’t know if they were venomous either as still venom glands are flesh not bone

[mighty dagger]

Sinos relatives sharing grooved teeth and likely not being venomous does not indicate that Sino Couldn't be venomous. Not every species in the same family Has to have venom

[wary fable]

That is correct saying that not all snakes are venomous

[mighty dagger]

True, and while a snake is not a dinosaur, this speculation will get us nowhere without more concrete evidence in either direction. I suggest we all get degrees in Paleontology and continue this discussion in oh, 6 to 10 years

Unless there Are Paleontologists in the room with us with a case study on Sinornithosaurus

[cloud badger]

I heard recently that running on all 4 is better than on 2 legs for humans and that it will surpass the current record set by bolt
Do yall think humans ran on all 4 if yes how did they do that?

[mighty dagger]

I see this conversation has digressed, good luck

[wary fable]

No matter how good your degree is it’s impossible there is no actual proof as there is no flesh on the sino meaning no proof of venom glands and no proof that it didn’t have venom glands

Even if you had a sino skeleton in your arms you wouldn’t be able to say as still no flesh

Unless you have a just recently dead sino body sitting in your refrigerator you can’t say it does or doesn’t have venom

[wary fable]

Also no because humans were built to be bipedal if you think I am wrong run on all fours then run on all twos and see what gets you to your location faster

[cloud badger]

@wary fable well the thing is you probably could
If it has bone structure that is similar to some animals today that posses venom but if you dont have anything you could either say it probably didnt but maybe it had

[wary fable]

It does have a skull similar to venomous animals but it also doesn’t it has a reptilian like skull therefore unknown

[zinc solstice]

I'm gonna run on two legs and on four legs to test this now and is Pisanosaurus a silesaurid or a basal ornithischian

[wary fable]

Who knows

[zinc solstice]

Are Silesaurids a sister group to Dinosaurs or Stem ornithischians with Pisanosaurus being a transitional form between ornithischians and silesaurids

Because Silesaurids Most likely came from lagosuchids as Lewisuchus is a transitional form between silesaurids and lagosuchids and is the most basal silesaurids but lagosuchids are basal dinosauromorphs and silesaurids are dinosauriformes and are closer related to dinosaurs in phylogeny is it possible lagosuchids gave rise to silesaurids and dinosaurs

[wary fable]

Weren’t silesaurids from the Triassic

[cloud badger]

Well the thing is we have seen phenomenal progress in the 4 legged running with a new record of 15 km/h but the thing is the more they study about it the more they make long shot progress so it's just a theory but mayne humans run on both
As for the venompuse skull it really depends does it have a place where it could potentially be space for a venom gland or hollow fangs or anything that indicates venom ?if no those similarities are probably due to other conditions and do not indicate the presence of venom so it s mainly unknown
@zinc solstice going to set a new 4 legged running I'm telling yall

[zinc solstice]

Image of lagosuchus a lagosuchid (first image) and Lewisuchus the most basal silesaurid (second image)

[wary fable]

Many skulls have space for a venom gland but they aren’t venomous and it does have teeth like venomous snakes but that doesn’t mean anything because sino is a bird and not a snake nor baboon @cloud badger

[cloud badger]

The thing is hollow teeth are kinda trash I guess the hole probably isnt a huge reason but if it has a delivery system its probably venomous
I mean why else would you get teeth that would probably get destroyed easily for no apparent reason
Unless they are blood sucker lol it's a stretch but funny to think about

[zinc solstice]

Also why do advanced dinosauromorphs and basal dinosauriformes look very similar to Lagerpeptids basal pterosauromorphs and one idea for this might be the most basal dinosauromorphs and the most basal pterosauromorphs look so similar is because they recently split from a common ancestor at the time (first image is lagerpeton a basal pterosauromorphs) (second image is Lewisuchus a basal dinosauriformes)

[wary fable]

Delivery systems are flesh therefore still unknown

So it’s a 50 - 50 you can say “well it-“ but it’s impossible to know

[cloud badger]

To I will say you might be right but uhh
Hyenas

[zinc solstice]

And If Silesaurids came from Lagosuchids with Silesaurids probably coming from lagosuchids with Lewisuchus being a link from Lagosuchids and Silesaurids and Silesaurids are dinosauriformes and are closer related to Dinosaurs is it possible that Lagosuchids gave rise to silesaurids and dinosaurs and If Silesaurids are basal ornithischians Like what one paper says then wouldn't Lagosuchids be dinosaurs if the paper is correct as they are most likely the last common ancestor for Silesaurids and dinosaurs

And It is most likely with the most basal Silesaurid being nearly identical to advanced lagerpeptids it is possible that the most basal dinosaur like the very very first dinosaur ever could have been very similar to Lagerpeptids too after splitting off from the most basal Silesaurids like Lewisuchus

[native kindle]

Except there's 0 reason for any of those larger theropods to develop venom. They already have the tools to hunt what they need to hunt, what would drive them to evolve venom?

[native kindle]

I'd also love to hear about these venomous birds you speak of. This would be brand new to science!

[tough parcel]

Just like the venomous thylacine...

[wind prairie]

or the pack hunting raptor! like a pride of lions...

[native kindle]

Venom Glands would be right there.

There's a clear area in venomous snakes' teeth were venom is stored.

You'd be right if we were talking about Helodermatids like the Gila Monster, but those came long after the Non-Avian Dinosaurs. You'd get a better audience if you wanted to talk about something like Palaeosaniwa being venomous, being in the same clade.

[west drum]

NEW FAV CREATURE DROPPED

[white matrix]

How big is rexy compared to a max weight trex💀 some kid is saying rexy would be 1000 times stronger then a max sized tyrannosaurus and stronger then a blue whale

[tulip dove]

Rexy ranges from 7 to 9 tons (The size changes a lot for some reason) and then irl Rex could reach over 10 tons

[white matrix]

according to someone rexy has blue whale strength

[tulip dove]

But I'd say 8 tons for Rexy is probably the best one
As she looks a little skinny to be 9 tons

[tropic citrus]

It’s because adults vary in size. Hell, humans range from 100-250 depending on a few factors.

[white matrix]

rexy has moniter lizard dna so accurate dinosaurs couldve existed in jw

[tulip dove]

No I mean like Rexy herself changes size A LOT
Not Rex itself in the franchise

[tropic citrus]

Oh gotcha. I thought you were talking about weight ranges in Rex lol

[white matrix]

like i get it rexy is 8 tons or som but she does not have blue whale level strength

[wind prairie]

dinosaur fight discussions

[outer tusk]

what is this discussion

[wind prairie]

JP lore arguments and more dinosaur power scaling

[open compass]

Jw

[magic jacinth]

would dromaeosaurs have been able to climb trees/terrain using all 4 limbs (basically bear hug style/squirrel style), or would they be restricted to how modern birds tend to climb things, beak excluded of course lol. I dont really know much about how the joints on these animals articulated.

[wind prairie]

it doesn't matter, JP encompasses the entire franchise

[tough parcel]

Not really, there is a reason people say JP-JW or just one of them

[wind prairie]

it's probably possible they could've used their arms to climb
I tell you this as I tabbed out of beasts of bermuda to answer and my velo got pulverized by a megara

[sterile trail]

What is y'all's biggest gripe when someone is talking about Tyrannosaurus?

For me, it's when someone says they were covered in feathers. I have high doubts about it.

[outer tusk]

There's no reason for tyrannosaurus to be portrayed with heavy coat of feathering for obvious reasons

[zinc solstice]

This is random but tyrannosaurus didn't have a thick coat of feathers but as a baby it probably was fluffy but as it grew it possibly shed it's dense Feather Coat and The adults most likely had very short almost invisible peachfuzz like feathers

Also a gripe for me is when someone says Trex evolved into chickens

Like we already have fowl like Austinornis 19 million years before the last known tyrannosaurus rex

Off topic probably but Could fowl as a group technically be called living fossils as we have fowl fossils older than saurolophine hadrosaurs and Austinornis is 1 Million years older than the saurolophine group

[wind prairie]

we don't know that it was fluffy as a baby

[zinc solstice]

True it could've been scaly as a baby and could have still had very short almost invisible peach fuzz like feathers as a baby too

And I made a mistake the oldest known fowl are 19 million years older than the last known tyrannosaurus not 16 million years older

[wind prairie]

I still personally like to believe all theropods but ceratosaurs would've been feathered as babies

[sterile trail]

The first part, I'm ok with. The chicken part is ridiculous

[olive holly]

I see a lot of conflicting info about Dimorphodons diet. A lot of articles say they were Piscivores who were decent at swimming, but a lot also say they insectivores and opportunistic hunters of small vertebrates (which I’m more likely to believe). What is the most recent opinion on Dimorphodon and its diet/swimming capabilities?

[hallow spear]

I’d probably wager the Basal-most pterosaurs include Macronychoptera

[plush fossil]

The JP roar 😞 and the teeth
But I don't really talk about Dino's much to people so

[bright veldt]

God I have no idea what I'm looking at

[plush fossil]

By teeth I mean the teeth being fully exposed also like in JP😣

[olive holly]

So it seems to be mostly assumed as insectivorous? That’s what I was leaning more towards as well

[hallow spear]

Like most of its diet but the rest can also work just lesser parts of the diet

[olive holly]

Ahh okay, I get what the chart is saying now, thank you!

[west coral]

What ctenochasmatid and pteranodonts have durophagus content?

[pulsar galleon]

Yknow I never truly understood how much larger the giant aust jawbone was compared to the blue anchor and lilstock ones

that’s almost comedically larger

[proper hornet]

What's the weight difference between Conca and Dilo?

[bright veldt]

Basically none. They're about the same mass.

[proper hornet]

Alright, thanks

[quasi token]

icthyosaur moment (they just keep getting bigger)

[main saffron]

Didn’t know if anyone is interested in this stuff, but if you are passionate about paleontology, this is one of the coolest events I’ve ever been too, highly recommend anyone perusing paleo as a career to do this

[pulsar galleon]

That seems to be the trend yes, it’s funny to me how hilariously large Triassic ichthyosaurs were compared to any other marine reptiles including post Triassic ichthyosaurs

The largest fragmentary ones could be over 10 times the size of the next largest marine reptiles that aren’t other ichthyosaurs…

[mossy anchor]

What are the best dilophosaurus figurines that isnt beast of mesozoic’s? Im curious cause darren naish has been showing off a lot of dilo figurines but there doesnt really seem to be any up to date ones

[fossil ingot]

Rexy is just tall and long.(5.2m/17ft tall and 44.3ft/13.5m long)
She is stated to be 8.4 tonnes consistanly
Mostly during JWD.
Tho iirc she is like 7 tons during Jurassic World but is 8.4 tonnes during JWD

[valid juniper]

mb.

[bold fog]

A Gallimimus bullatus file i did, hope you like it. Also let me know which species would you like to see next.

[distant mauve]

how large is dearc compared to rhamph?

[bright veldt]

About the same size.

[bold fog]

Dearc its pretty big

[bright veldt]

The biggest Dearc size estimate is about the same as the biggest known rhamph individual (3 meters or so)

[bold fog]

Also another file i´ll share on my Twitter later this week

[bold fog]

Which specimen in each genus? Thats pretty important

[bright veldt]

Is it? The specific species of rhamph isn't being asked.

[bold fog]

No, specimen like FMNH PR 2081 (Sue) to compare it with other ones and see if its a correct estimation

[bright veldt]

???

[bold fog]

Which specimen its the largest Rhamphorhynchus??

*** Dearc sgiathanach***: NMS G.2021.6.1-4 this one its the largest specimen i assume, a juvenile/subadult specimen.

[bright veldt]

I don't believe it's been confidently assigned to a particular species. It's in Rhamph sp.

[bold fog]

I think you are confusing specimen with species.

[bright veldt]

sp. is used when it can be assigned to the genus but not a species, either due to it being a species not described yet or (much more likely) the remains don't give enough clues as to what particular species it is

For example, most of pteranodon's remains are technically sp. from what I understand because the distuinguishing features between P. longiceps and P. sternbergi are in the skull. If you don't have that you can't really tell them apart at all outside of maybe dating.

[bold fog]

I found the specimen of that giant Rhamphorhynchus its ***BMNH 7002 ***almost the same size using that giant Rhamphorhynchus. from 2.5 to 3.5 m. Hope i could help you.

[bold fog]

Yeah but im not asking which species, im asking which specimen its the largest, i just found it.

[bright veldt]

oohhh I get what you mean now, sry.

[bold fog]

Dont be worry. 😃 happy you get it.

A photo when i travel to Argentina to check Mapusaurus, Giganotosaurus and this fella, Meraxes.

[sterile trail]

Its interesting to me when dinosaurs are named after pop culture

Next thing you know we'll have possibly an Azdarchid named after Smaug

[lilac coyote]

sick

[lilac coyote]

hehe the dino got stone hard plaque

[halcyon cobalt]

thoughts on PE's tarbo?

[sharp canyon]

The body seems a bit small compared to the head

[outer tusk]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/814951592495284296/1252640040413298730/image.png?ex=6672f372&is=6671a1f2&hm=d243e98b1d1814455644c5a8ddad8d393f38df3a7049e39bd62a44c675388d7d&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1440&height=549

[outer tusk]

Tarbosaurus is a bobblehead as derpy.stego pointed it out, so it's meant to look like that also model itself is in wip so idk personally why doofus posted so early

[woeful falcon]

A good start I'd say.

What's PE

[junior dawn]

PEdro

[sharp canyon]

I'm assuming Prior Extinction

[woeful falcon]

That's right

The names all blend together

[sudden wind]

It's good

[ionic crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/raccoon-rave-dance-gif-15389662957248741331

[scarlet kraken]

Not very educated on dinos, but I remember seeing/reading as a kid that the Triceratops was the sort of natural enemy/equal to the Rex. That true at all?

[sharp canyon]

Pretty much, as far as I could tell Trike and Anky were some of the few herbivores that could consistently threaten a Rex (not to discredit Edmonto, it just didn't have the same weaponry as the other two). Though I could be wrong

Of course Trike would still prefer to avoid Rex

[cosmic fox]

he sigma

[wind prairie]

if you gave a rex an option between hunting a trike or an edmonto, it'd most likely go after edmonto, but trike was so common that's probably what they were hunting usually

[bronze storm]

The legs 😭

[wind prairie]

can't believe dreadnoughtus was this small

[outer tusk]

It's not that skeletal is of different specimens entirely

As a sub adult was about 50t and was larger than thay

[compact leaf]

subadult dread is not 50t

high end volumetric gets like 38t

[ionic crescent]

I'm pretty sure, correct me if wrong, Edmonto bite force (iirc it could give some strong bites) and bulk was enough to scare a lone rex

[sharp canyon]

Probably, like I said I wasn't trying to discredit the bird cow

[tough parcel]

It wasn't

Not by a country mile

[stiff osprey]

Trike is rex's biggest threat imo, although it was still regularly hunted. The average Edmont is significantly smaller than the average rex and would get destroyed in a one on one fight

[elfin pulsar]

I was gonna say, no shot an edmonto was the one scaring a rex

[tough parcel]

The fearsome African Cape Edmontosaurus...

What

[hybrid saddle]

Fearsome Edmontosaurus has evolve-

[sharp canyon]

I'd say a Rex's biggest threat.... Is another Rex

[lusty holly]

What about quetz?

[elfin pulsar]

What about it

[ionic crescent]

So just the bulk then, correct?

[tough parcel]

.

[elfin pulsar]

Neither. Edmonto is chow

Isn’t quetz’s entire body mass lighter than a rex’s head lol

[jagged trellis]

Average edmont is like what, 6 ton zone vs the average rexes 8 and abit smaller in frame than a rex(?) That we know of

[stiff osprey]

True, I forgot to add "among its prey"

[hybrid saddle]

Pretty sure the 20t Edmonto estimate is cap

[jagged trellis]

Well nothing is lmao

[outer tusk]

what the hell

[outer tusk]

why would it even be real in the first place 😭 the largest estimate and specimen for edmonto at 15 tonnes is like a tail

[stiff estuary]

Edmonto was probably regular prey, it's primary survival tactic would probably been running from rex. However, just like a lion and a zebra, I wouldn't say it's impossible for a big edmonto to drop a rex.

[jagged trellis]

Nothing is impossible in these ordeals, question is how often(the 1% of gnats escaping a dragonfly for a extreme case)

[outer tusk]

Sue, Scotty and X-rex ( obviously these 3 are largest of their respected species )

[lusty holly]

Rlly prehistoric planet said they would

[tulip dove]

Twig vs an absolute unit

They could probably be able to intimidate a Rex but not be life threatning for a Rex

[jagged trellis]

( also that scene was about harassment vs a full on fight)

[wanton mural]

Quetz would be a serious threat to T. rex || as a hatchling ||

[bright veldt]

This skeletal is outdated

This current most up-to-date one ups Dread to like 50 tons

[compact leaf]

46t is about as large as you can get it, most other methods put it around 38t

[halcyon cobalt]

how heavy was Stellar’s sea cow?

[outer tusk]

Again, 50 tonnes is for an sub adult not an adult

[compact leaf]

you don’t get 50 tons for either, I keep saying that

[outer tusk]

You do?

[stiff osprey]

neither known specimen gets to 50 tons, but a fully grown one probably did

[outer tusk]

omg is that specificmammals 😭

[stiff osprey]

granted this is based on vibes, since we do not have a dreadnoughtus growth curve, but assuming the holotype to be around 40, a 50 ton maximum is conservative

[compact leaf]

an adult can feasibly hit 50 but none of the specimens we have do that's what I've been trying to get across

[warped peak]

11 Tons for larger specimens we believe

[compact leaf]

we aren't gonna talk about the 59t holotype estimate that doesn't count

[outer tusk]

Ight

[warped peak]

Sea Cow having tusks amuses me still

[sharp canyon]

Those aren't tusks, they're t

[outer tusk]

I saw a quite interesting estimate that puts them at 24.3 tonnes

but yeha somewhere about 8-11 ig is okay

[warped peak]

They're tusks off the structure and are also present in dugong to a greater degree

[sharp canyon]

Now those are tusks lol

So when do morays first appear on the fossil record

[pulsar galleon]

Wikipedia has it at the late Miocene

[river plinth]

Did edmontosaurus have the ability to stand up to?

[outer tusk]

maybe

[bright veldt]

All hadrosaurs could stand up.

[velvet burrow]

A bit late but my biggest gripe is when people talk about Tyrannosaurus
Like "yeah yeah cool dino, NEXT"

[tough parcel]

Oh boy, here we go with another "T.rex is too popular guys, Kayentapus needs more exposure"

[velvet burrow]

Yes.

[tough parcel]

Get off the stage!!! At this point, you've become the thing you complain about because no-one talks about Rex like it's the 2nd coming of Christ unless you go somewhere the collective IQ makes space temperature shiver from how low it is (YT Comments)

[velvet burrow]

Wasn't the convo just before steller's sea cow about Tyrannosaurus (and edmonto)?

[sterile trail]

I was only talking about it because there's a lot of things that people get wrong about. I understand it's an overrated dinosaur.

[bright veldt]

I think overused is more accurate. Given all that is known about the taxa and how many records it has, it's far from overrated.

[velvet burrow]

Ok, sorry for the random vent/rant, i tend to see red when someone mentions Tyrannosaurus

[halcyon cobalt]

so comparable to baird’s beaked whale?

[tough parcel]

It was, but it was not unscientific or making T.rex able to fight God

There is a reason people like it and temper fits about it being "overrated" is beyond childish and does nothing but further alienate people who are casual and curious

[outer tusk]

Tyrannosaurus is a cool dinosaur and am not ashamed to say it!

[lavish frigate]

Does anyone have pictures of Yutyrannus fossils and other non debatable feathered dinosaurs? I wanna show them to a person I’ve been having some evolution debates with since he claims Dromaeosaurs looked like this

[junior dawn]

if you look up dinosaur feather fossils you'll get tons of results

[woeful falcon]

The king of feathers archaeopteryx

First two are microraptor?

[junior dawn]

yeah

i was trying to find that one fossil of the dinosaur with long tail feathers that preserved bands and all but i cant remember i- nvm, i just did i think

[woeful falcon]

What's that guy

[junior dawn]

caudipteryx. Not the one i was looking for, but still a very good example

[bright veldt]

Zhenyuanlong is kinda the king of showing wings/fans in raptors

[pulsar galleon]

Real

[river plinth]

So that thing already bigger than rex can stand twice as tall?!

[bright veldt]

I wouldn't say twice as tall but sure?

[river plinth]

Ikr man

[scenic flame]

we also have the recent paper which stated that a few compsognathids were actually juvenile megalosaurs and carcharodontosaurs

one of which is scipionyx

[sterile trail]

Lil cutie Sinosauropteryx

[flint stream]

too unstable

[peak jetty]

Speaking of, does anyone know if it's been determined how the scipionyx specimen died?

[storm heron]

Pfffft

[hushed fossil]

LMFAO

You sure are weird with herbivores

[lavish frigate]

Thanks to everyone up yonder who posted the fluffy dudes

[hushed fossil]

Sherpenthes really is taking this seriously huh

[jagged trellis]

Deer is def the wrong comp lmao, nothing good to compare to nowadays is a thing

[hushed fossil]

Whatever, but to say that an 8 or 12 ton animal ocuppies the niche of a deer (an skittish herbivore that only runs from predators and is generally pretty small) is stupid me thinks

[jagged trellis]

Like 6-8 ton zone if i recall

[hushed fossil]

And since when is Trike smaller? Last time I saw they were around the same size and Trike was bigger on average, correct me if im wrong

[tough parcel]

I feel like disregarding the weight, a Triceratops is not built to run away in the slightest

[jagged trellis]

Def not a deer niche seeing that thing wasn't exactly built for evasive style seeing it

[hushed fossil]

Yeah sure, definitely the same thing. Just say you hate Triceratops or something

Cause your cappingggg

[real swan]

General chat reminder to remain polite and respectful towards each other and do not provoke or antagonize other users. Refer to our ⁠#rules.

[native kindle]

Buffalo aren't as big as a Triceratops. Any comparisons to modern day animals should just fly out the window because they are just, not at all applicable especially in Hell Creek

[jagged trellis]

I mean you also just said they'd be daily fodder a few bits ago lmao, they aren't facing a predator bigger than em headon non stop, but they did something beyond raw numbers to survive, and true flat out escape seems difficult for it

[native kindle]

^^

[hushed fossil]

Anyway, regardless if Rex had an edge or if it was bigger, to think it didn't even pose an ounce of danger and that "it was eaten alive daily" is disingenous

[native kindle]

It's not some out there fact that Tyrannosaurus ate a lot of Triceratops. But to say it was mostly successful in hunting them, and did it without harm is just spitting in the face of it

[jagged trellis]

That and there aren't any living predator prey relationships that we can comapre genuinely seeing how odd it is despite being a talk of the talk

[lunar copper]

trike outrunning a tyrannosaurus sounds almost comedic lol, I can't imagine many situations where that's plausible

Ceratopsians and the environment triceratops lived in is just not good for running, moreso than you'd see in any modern day animal (excluding turtles or whatever the land one is)

not even mentioning the endurance tyrannosaurs were capable of

[hushed fossil]

Found the only LOOP fan

[jagged trellis]

No one is saying t rex couldn't successfully hunt a trike, we have straight up proof of that, just that it isn't fodder seeing it, most predator and prey relationships for large animals are wonky af compared to smaller ones, and how its literally some of the least flat out escape built ceratopsians

[young ocean]

God how much of a mess am I gonna get into trying to find reliable information on spinosaurus speeds

[jagged trellis]

Messier than my room amounts id imagine

[young ocean]

People can't even agree on if this thing could walk or swim, poor dino

Oh god I can't even find any answer

[tough parcel]

P sure this occurred due to the matriarch having PTSD from a jackal encounter when she was a calf so when the matriarch spooked, the entire herd did

[native kindle]

nature is pretty traumatizing. a reptile probably wouldn't be able to develop ptsd

a reptile 66 million years ago?

[outer tusk]

what happen 😭

[native kindle]

care to share?

[outer tusk]

Saturn the alligator

[tough parcel]

Goofiest goober

[white matrix]

ptsd only comes with mammalian cunning

[deft sigil]

A channel reminder to please view pinned messages for appropriate paleo-chat topics. This channel is for educational purposes. Please do not post off-topic memes or troll in here. Refer to all our pinned guidelines in every channel you plan to use.

[hushed fossil]

A Rex wouldn't slaughter a Triceratops easily, especially when they weight about the same on average, the end

Now, isn't this critter pretty cute?

[opal trail]

Cute

[pulsar galleon]

did anything ever come out of the "25m" guizhouichthyosaurus that was mentioned once in a paper this year and then never again

[opal trail]

never heard of it tbh

[pulsar galleon]

it was mentioned in one sentence and never again in the paper

the specimen in question (isometrically) would be comically larger than any other guizhouichthyosaurus, how do you just say "oh yeah there's a fin whale sized specimen" and then never elaborate on it 💀

[pulsar galleon]

its large to the point that isometrically its 100 times the mass of the other ones, how is that basically a footnote in the paper

[pulsar galleon]

got that answered elsewhere, it is indeed real.

[river plinth]

Guys Australia's feral cats are turbo evolving to big cats I'm not joking

[white matrix]

very real

[subtle vale]

Obviously not edited

[white matrix]

i was thinking more ai generated

[river plinth]

Of course that's a thumb nail bruh the actual video talks about the topic

[white matrix]

if youre trying to inform people on a real thing you probably shouldn't use generative ai to illustrate your point, doing so makes you look bad

[river plinth]

I'm not using ai that'd the thumb nail on there video 💀

[white matrix]

obviously i mean the video creator

[river plinth]

:0

[halcyon cobalt]

doesnt really look like ai but go on

[white matrix]

well its not a photo and it has a bunch of errors an artist wouldnt make. Many of them are missing pupils, two have ear tufts on one ear but not the other, one's face is just a smudgy blur without detail, etc

[river plinth]

That's not the point the vidoes is about feral cats getting bigger I'd literally show a hunted cat breed out growing a fox but I think that gose aginst the rules

[white matrix]

and that would effectively be spreading misinformation, which doesnt belong on a video posing as being educational

[wind prairie]

pretty sure the "big john" specimen is 12 tons

[outer tusk]

it's not

[wind prairie]

no source?

because everything I can find about it says that one was 💀

[stiff osprey]

i don't think a news headline counts as a source for the mass of a dinosaur

[wind prairie]

what did it probably weigh then I genuinely am curious

[wind prairie]

lightly feathered ceratosaurs are underrated

[outer tusk]

dawg even if I don;t have a source it's quite obivous big john isn;t 12 tonnes 😭

[wind prairie]

it's not necessarily obvious at all, just tell me what it IS then?

[outer tusk]

unknown proper measurements but according to Henry a possible reported length of 8m is there

[tough parcel]

Henry Cavil?

[outer tusk]

yes

[lavish frigate]

I’m a big fan of lightly feathering every dinosaur

[crude latch]

I thought it would be cursed…but thinking of a lightly feathered Spino isn’t to bad ngl

[warped peak]

Just a feathered sail

[vernal fable]

Feathered sail is. . . .kinda scary to imagine-

[sharp canyon]

I always imagined a feathered Spino would look like a massive swan

Something like this
https://x.com/urlknight/status/1122318960819458048

sarah 🐍✨ (@urlknight) on X

murder swan (spinosaurus) walk cycle

Twitter · Apr 28, 2019, 1:57 AM

[vernal fable]

“Murder Swan”

I like that

[sharp canyon]

For the record I'm not confident in feathered Spino at all I just think that if it did have feathers it'd go honk

[tough parcel]

Scrurimimus = megalosaur and spinosaurs = megalosaurs so by that logic....

[eternal sentinel]

Modified a map of North America 75mya to include fossil/trace sites to draw a loose corelation on population distributions/preservation bias across the landmass. Thought I'd share it here for anyone who's interested!

[wind prairie]

mehh I like lightly feathered on every theropod but anything other than that it depends

[wind prairie]

best baby spino

[crude latch]

Neat

I personally would have feathering (on an adult) stop here

[storm heron]

I would feather everything somehow

[crude latch]

Eh actually idk loon Spino is kinda nice so full feathers might be it for me idk

Depends on how well it’s executed

[wind prairie]

agreed

[outer tusk]

though in all honestly I would probably make them not feathered either

[wind prairie]

outdated tail but josch's portrayal of feathers on the front of spino is neat

[cloud badger]

Unknown unrecorded measurements should not be used
It has people think that some tigers average 250kgs

[cloud badger]

Legs too skinny makes me feel weird even if it's accurate proportion

[outer tusk]

Not accurate because no tadpole tail!

[wind prairie]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not lol

[cloud badger]

Then what would it be if estimated

[outer tusk]

What

[light osprey]

So real…

[cloud badger]

What would it's length and weight be
I don't know what y'all talking about anyways I just got interested

[outer tusk]

which specimen for spinosaurus do you want?

[cloud badger]

Whatever you got

[compact leaf]

I always like seeing maps like this, it highlights how little we know about appalachia

[outer tusk]

not even specific but the holotype is scaled within 10m and 3t same with the neotype but a little bit bigger around 4t and then we have spinosaurus cf. aegyptiacus which has bee scaled withint 14.7m and 8.3 tonnes

[compact leaf]

the big dentary also overlaps with the holotype, so it’s more confident that those two are the same animal

by animal I mean taxa not individual

falcon you’re cryptically reacting me please don’t tell me I forgot something and embarrass me

[river plinth]

That's literally what the video is about 💀

[tough parcel]

You’re good

I just wanted to screw around but the issue is that people seem to be too “split-eager” in terms of Spinosaurus sometimes but most of the time, people are reasonable and don’t do that

[outer tusk]

I always use the holotype spino because am just sigma like that 😎

[compact leaf]

stromer left us beautiful notes and we should all strive to be more like that

[cloud badger]

Btw what are we talking about anyways

[outer tusk]

you wouldn't understand

[cloud badger]

I would but only some of it you got me interested by putting cool numbers and saying spinosaurus take responsibility @outer tusk

[outer tusk]

what 😭

[cloud badger]

Tell me now what is the topic

[outer tusk]

dude I don't know

[flint stream]

is it me or anywon always thinking everyday there's new paper publish

[crude latch]

Truly a Paleochat moment

[cloud badger]

So it's just randomly putting spino size estimate
I'm cool with that
Call me when spino get a cool update (I'm sure next patch he's gonna get a trunk and be fat

[outer tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/peter-griffin-chris-balls-sus-peter-gif-4662424033555008061

"there is nothing"

[cloud badger]

That's unusual
Where us my monthly spino patch

[tough parcel]

(There hasn’t been a majorly noticeable anatomical one in years)

[cloud badger]

@tough parcel to be fair they don't have a lot to work with from what I have been told

[outer tusk]

that doesn't matter though because the last actual new study done one spino was all the wat back in 2020-21

[cloud badger]

Still hoping to get my elephant seal spino one day

[crude latch]

You see the British doesn’t want us to have more spino so they bombed a museum, this is obviously due to the fact that Britain is controlled by a secret underground government of spinosaurs and don’t want us to figure out there true form

[cloud badger]

Now now this is kinda racist bro spinos do not contrôle the world it's only the spinosit hight society

[crude latch]

I only mentioned the fact that they control Britain so erm

[cloud badger]

Man we all know britania is still rules like most of it
It's gone down since Lelouch did that weird thing of being king for 1 day

[crude latch]

Ok grandpa let’s get you back in bed

[cloud badger]

Wait dint we get one like last year?
I remember there being a fuzz about spino swimming and I don't remember details that's all I could recall I was too busy to care at that time

[plucky basin]

Before:

After:

[flint stream]

new methods of paleontology fauna classsification be like :

[plucky basin]

i dont understand? wdym paleontology fauna?

[flint stream]

paleofauna i mean

[wind prairie]

what are the 10 largest sauropods known as of right now?

[chilly obsidian]

What happened to the utahraptor block

[wind prairie]

nothing happened to it? It's still being studied

[wind prairie]

I always thought of tyrannosaurus rex itself as being a completely solo hunter, but is something like what is shown in the "swamps" episode of prehistoric planet 2 plausible, in which 2 individuals tactically work together to bring down an edmontosaurus? https://youtu.be/t9PZxPji4ks?t=48

[chilly obsidian]

yeah I'm curious about it, I haven't seen much from it

[acoustic yarrow]

Possibly considering the size of hell creek fauna but I think it was likely facultative cooperative hunting.

[stiff estuary]

I dont think there's direct evidence for it, but there have been some trace fossils showing 3 relatives of rex seeming to be walking together. 🤷‍♂️

[peak jetty]

The clip is purely speculative and has no real basis in fact. It's one of the few scenes in PP that personally find to be a bit too much.

People often cite the "3 rexes travelling together" thing as evidence but it's all hypothetical.

All that we have are the tracks of 3 individuals going in the same direction. The problem is that they're just tracks, and the theory operates on the kind of crazy assumption that the tracks were left at the exact same time. They could have been shadowing each other for territorial or sexual reasons, or not following each other at all.

These tracks could have been left weeks or even months apart if the weather kept. When I go on a walk through a park and I see other shoe prints on a trail, do I assume that they're travelling together with every other person who has used this trail? More pertinently, would I assume that every set of rabbit tracks along the margins are related individuals travelling in a group?

That is all to say that using fossilized trackways to infer behaviour is really sketchy.

[stiff estuary]

Fair point. I agree that it's not evidence, just saying that it's a possibility. Though that's always the problem, lots of options are possible but it's hard calculating which are most likely. 😁 It is true that majority of reptiles and birds today are solitary and don't hunt as organized packs, but then generally modern reptiles and birds are fulfilling different roles in their ecosystem. We just gotta wait for more fossils to turn up and hopefully continue build a better picture of these animals.

[peak jetty]

It's certainly possible, but far from probable. coordinated pack hunting is a monumentally rare behaviour, and iirc the ones that do it are all mammals.

[halcyon cobalt]

did Stan ( T rex ) have any injuries in its femur?

[storm heron]

Tyrannosaurus working in pairs or groups in hunting is speculative (as are most behaviors of dinosaurs) but is very possible. We have multiple bonebeds of different Tyrannosaurids that consist of various specimens of different ages and sizes.

Also, crocodiles have been documented in participating in coordinated group hunting so it is not nessecarily a mammal thing (I am pretty sure some birds do it too).

[peak jetty]

There is a big difference between crocodilian mobbing and coordinated pack hunting

[stiff estuary]

Harris Hawks specifically hunt as units. Plus crocodiles are known to collaborate while hunting, herding fish into kill zones. While I do think that in Prehistoric Planet it overdid the amount of pack hunting, I would call it plausible speculation.

Dinets, V. (2014). Apparent coordination and collaboration in cooperatively hunting crocodilians. Ethology Ecology & Evolution, 27(2), 244–250. https://doi.org/10.1080/03949370.2014.915432

[bronze storm]

Whats that marine site in new jersey

[cursive comet]

hi guys is there an expert among you? i seek information about the correct jeholopterus proportions as they seems to be diverging in different art and diagrams

e.g. there exist version with short and long neck, the number of neck vertebrae is different

[cloud dagger]

Don’t take david peters’ skeletals seriously

[frail robin]

Rule out the top one. It's from David Peters. The bottom skeletal seems alright, and the paleoart looks good. Idk about the 3D skeleton tho tbh

[cursive comet]

im a friend of david peters. the 3d seems to be derived from the bottom, but seems to have additional neck vertebrae

the extra stuff he draws is just proposition to make people think more creative about pterosaurs. what he is wrong about is flight posture , but almost everybody is imho. the drawing by ugueto looks good.

[frail robin]

David Peters is known to photoshop and manipulate fossils. Also the extra "creativeness" he proposes is absurd. He denies common logic and refuses to accept proper research, and also be-littles anyone who opposes his opinions and insane theories

An example would be pterosaur ground locomotion. Despite their being found tracks of pterosaurs showing that they walked with their wings and feet, David Peters still says that they only walked on their legs

[cursive comet]

everyone who has an opinion is be-littleling... he doesnt manipulate the fossils, he just draws onto them to mark out what he thinks hes seeing, like everyone does

[clever sable]

Is that David Peters in the top center area................

[cursive comet]

maybe they could do both, like bears

[frail robin]

No, he actively has photoshoped fossils to make people believe what he says

[cursive comet]

i dont know if thats true.

[frail robin]

No, no. Bears can stand up on their hind limbs. They can't walk properly on two legs. David says that pterosaurs walked on two legs all the time

[clever sable]

It is in fact true, he has admitted to it as he says it shows him things other people can't see, David Peters is literally the worst skeletal/Paleo artist currently making art

[cursive comet]

what i read from his blog and opinion is just that he considers both walking options viable

[frail robin]

These are drawings of what he believes pterosaurs looked like. The first one is Pteranodon, the second is an Azhdarchid and the third one is supposed to be Rhamphoryncus

[clever sable]

No, David Peters is legitimately horrible, please do not take anything he makes seriously

[cursive comet]

hes not saying they looked all like that. you put things in his mouth

[cursive comet]

correct. despite claiming they are accurate depictions

[frail robin]

https://tetzoo.com/blog/2020/7/23/the-david-peters-problem
I recommend you read this blog

[sudden wind]

Lokiceratops rangiformis gen. et sp. nov. (Ceratopsidae: Centrosaurinae) from the Campanian Judith River Formation of Montana reveals rapid regional radiations and extreme endemism within centrosaurine dinosaurs [https://peerj.com/articles/17224/]

[cursive comet]

its boring, why should i have a fixed opion about a person than choose myself what uttering to believe

[clever sable]

He is like well known in the Paleo community for being absolutely horrible

Have you not looked at any of his skeletals???????

[cursive comet]

and so what? the truth is beyond the mainstream

[bitter oasis]

Reminder to please remain respectful. While critique is acceptable, paleo chat is not a place to make fun of or insult other people's art or depictions.

[clever sable]

Because there are objective truths and looking at the objective truths of how fossils are reconstructed and the material we have David Peters is objectively incorrect

[sudden wind]

David Peters straight up makes stuffs up, modify pictures and make foundless claims about what he posts on his Website. He is just to not take seriously.

[cursive comet]

wrong, objective is only what you have sufficient information about.

[calm agate]

And we have sufficient information to consistently say the vast majority of Peters claims are outright incorrect

[clever sable]

And we have sufficient information about several of the things he has constructed

[frail robin]

If you want an actually good and reliable pterosaurologist that doesn't lie and doesn't get enraged with anyone disagreeing with him, I recommend you check out Mark P. Witton. He is an awesome artist, and has contributed significantly to pterosaur research over the years

[clever sable]

No, he is not

[ancient crystal]

Funny how I was just looking into why David Peters is the way he is the other day

[cursive comet]

i already knew the claims about him before entering this chat room

[calm agate]

I will however assume at this point that you are simply attempting to start an argument where there is none to be made

[neat drum]

Y'all are feeding a troll lol

[bitter oasis]

General reminder to please be respectful and appropriate to other users, refer to our #rules . If we cannot be civil on this topic, mutes will be handed out.
Discussion can be continued without antagonizing or provoking one another.

[neat drum]

Explain psittacosaurus then

[calm agate]

To be fair that specimen is only useful in restoring a single juvenile male from one species. Given how much scale size, shape, distribution etc can vary between species applying that to the whole genus is a bit muddy

[neat drum]

Still minimal speculation

[cursive comet]

was this dinosaur hiding behind the bush on its tail? like a walking bush?

[calm agate]

You'd be surprised, there's a bit of speculation involved we are missing the end of his tail, there upper portion of his body is covered due to how he died. There's a good chance plenty of the feathers in his tail brush fell out post-mortem etc. Most of his scalation on the upper skull is entirely unknown too due to it being upside down

Still a damn beautiful specimen though, genuine privilege to have worked on restoring it for the two recent papers alongside the rest of JFD

[clever sable]

This is worse than the elephant remains don't actually belong to an elephant and instead belong to a surviving sauropod guy

[stray wren]

Lokiceratops is strange lookin

[stiff osprey]

Wait, it's not actually that big is it

[cursive comet]

working on an jeholopterus model. the black stuff is carbon rods. light green membrane, and rest will be stuffed by foam. do you think it is accurate ? i am not an expert paleontologist, but id like paleontologists affirm my models

[bright veldt]

Manz built like a sphere

[stray wren]

Dunno, I'd say probably? this is from the paper so

[sullen cairn]

the skull's definitely huge

no postcranial measurements tho

[stiff osprey]

so that's about a 2m skull length

very big but in the image above it looks more like 2.5-3m

[sullen cairn]

either sty and/or loki have crummy scalebars here or this is the dumbest animal ever

although looks like the skeletal scalebar might also be just like lying

[outer tusk]

Table will you make an edit of this

[sullen cairn]

Someone made this already

[outer tusk]

ah

[keen forum]

oh thats cool looking

[river plinth]

Hay guys if 1 species of dinosaur was brought pach today whitch would thrive the most no small ore medium just the larger species the Max's to smallest is the size of cerato

And which would bee doodo and doomed to extinction agian

[chilly obsidian]

What happened to the Utahraptor megablock?

[bright veldt]

Still being investigated

[plucky basin]

Before:

After:

[scenic flame]

I don't really understand the points you're trying to make here, how does recognising and addressing the vast amount of issues with Peters' work distract from other problematic reconstructions?

[plucky basin]

should i add anything else?

[plucky basin]

added Aquilops!

[chilly obsidian]

Damn still? How long has it been

[outer tusk]

Ceratosaurus consists of only one species, also is 7 meters long, 1098kg, and 2 meters tall

[plucky basin]

what is this then?

[plucky basin]

hmm?

[outer tusk]

dawg do you not see the "?" lmao

[plucky basin]

i aint taking chances

[outer tusk]

then at least remove magnicornis cause it's been pretty considered not it's own speices

[plucky basin]

heres the new ceratosaurus. i also changed the info

[outer tusk]

looks good btw forgot to ask but what porgarm did you use to make these

[plucky basin]

Words lol

[outer tusk]

ah okay thx

[plucky basin]

i just used the table feature

[bright veldt]

It’d be C. nasicornis. The other two are lumped into it. A 7 meter cerato is also 1100 kg.

[plucky basin]

which looks better? 1 or 2

[crude latch]

Sickle*

[plucky basin]

thx

the difference are the underlines and the two dots (idk what's the real term)

[crude latch]

I’d say the next one tho

[plucky basin]

aight

[ionic crescent]

Unrelated, but I kinda like his drawings and reconstructions

On the later one, as stated multiple times, I like em as their own thing and not representative of the animal

[bold fog]

It is big

[outer tusk]

that's what they all say

[bold fog]

dentisulcatus its dubious

[wind prairie]

lokiceratops is cool but why does the only size comparison of it have naked people

[outer tusk]

what

[wind prairie]

.

[bold fog]

Im doing a size estimation RN

[outer tusk]

because it's a size comp

[wind prairie]

?? literally almost every size comp just has a silhouette of a person or at least a fully clothed person

[bold fog]

With other cousins of him

[outer tusk]

okay but like no offense I don't
think it's that deep as long as well obv the human is ig not meant to be super detail or whatever

[tough parcel]

The Alamosaurus skeletal in question

[outer tusk]

what

oh nvm I see it

[clever sable]

I agree, they look really cool and even when representing the animal they are hilarious (which is why I have one as my PfP)

[crude latch]

Ye as much as some of its horrifies me it’s still super neat

[wind prairie]

what is the most accurately sized skeletal for ankylosaurus?

[low fern]

First time trying to do paleo art

[plucky basin]

Before:

After:

[chilly knot]

it didnt really lived with saurophaganax

[dreamy relic]

New Ceratopsid droppedhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lokiceratops

[plucky basin]

what...

[chilly knot]

different time

[plucky basin]

well saurophaganax lived 145mya and so did torvo

i dont understand

[tough parcel]

Where did you get this