paleontology

[tough parcel]

Not really as a study on hadrosaurs in the DPF (or a formation around there) showed hadrosaurs like to sit in vaguely the same place instead of migrating from Alaska to Mexico every 3 months

[flint stream]

in three month of migrating from alaska to mexico. and some are staying during winter approach. intresting

so is probably coincident nor just random speculation

[tough parcel]

That is the exact opposite of what I said as well as taking what is clearly impossible as possible

[lavish frigate]

I feel like saying coelurosaurs only is kinda outdated actually. Since we have fluffy ornithopods to my knowledge and feathers are likely ancestral to the group as a whole

So while it’s admittedly unlikely for large ornithischians to have full coverings I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of say, a few genera having display feathering

[tough parcel]

Considering that no (large) ornithischian has evidence of any sort of feathering (Ceratopsian skin, hadrosaur mummies, etc), I don't think it's all that likely to have "display feathering"

[lavish frigate]

Well uuuuuh…yo mama

But all I mean is like, a few quills possibly on the head or tail. Just speculation

[hallow spear]

unlikely considering quills would preserve

You shoudlnt/fur/whatever feather anything after Ankylopolexia imo

[lavish frigate]

My rule is feather everything you want but if it’s bigger than like camptosaurus stop here (usually)

[fallow plank]

I thy demand every large theropod and sauropod to have feathers

[daring forge]

y

i mean i know they had feathers but i think it makes them look goofy

[stray wren]

Large therpods and sauropods likely didn't have feathers

[last iron]

Feathered ankylosaurid

[warped peak]

Armored Raptor

[nocturne merlin]

feathered ankylosaurids would look so cool imo

[cloud dagger]

Raptor with stego plates

[tough parcel]

It was a joke, is why

[daring forge]

hey guys i found 2 fossils because i live in britain and i went to the jurassic coast

[warped peak]

Do we seriously believe both of these are in the same genus

[frosty anvil]

Kinda having a hard time processing howd that look. Would it just be the underbelly??

[nocturne merlin]

i meant like downy feathers inbetween the spikes, a good example would be sauropelta as it has wee gaps and yeah sorta underbelly/side

[stray wren]

Hippopotamus gorgops and Hippopotamus minor would like a word

El wiwi

[warped peak]

I think it might possibly be a bigger gap

[stray wren]

Still the same concept. It is kind of funny looking at the Paleoloxodon species

Can't wait for PK to do them hehe

[warped peak]

Also I did the math, they would not be able to breed

[stray wren]

Not with that attitude

[flint stream]

that sound silly

[crude latch]

You sound silly

[flint stream]

dumb yet silly speculation

[sharp canyon]

Why didn't Alderon just use Ornithopod for Lamb's Family Chorus ability description

[tough parcel]

Because no commoner would know “ornithopod”, they would know hadrosaur

[storm heron]

If an Ankylosaurid was feathered, I would imagine that there would not be relatively much due to the large scales and osteoderms that dominated the most of the body, though underbelly and limbs are possible places).

[light oxide]

Apparently, there was a discovery of a 5 meter long troodontid that was found in Asia?

Someone mentioned it in a different server — here is the link to it:

https://www.earth.com/news/megaraptor-species-named-fujianipus-yingliangi-discovered/

Thoughts?

[bright veldt]

ichnotaxon

[light oxide]

I will say that at first, I thought they were referring to "megaraptor" as in the megaraptorans (and thus thought it was an oof moment since they have a picture of a dromaeosaur/troodontid), but upon reading the article, they mentioned that it was a troodontid.

[compact leaf]

yeah all we can really say is “big” from an ichnotaxa

[tough parcel]

It's a footprint so I elect we ignore it because you cannot get that thing any sort of reasonable size unless you assume it has big enough feet to stomp a house on a normal raptor body

[light oxide]

I will say that the footprints shown of the supposed troodontid does . . . Look weird.

Let me see if I can get the picture.

[compact leaf]

if we’re being completely reasonable troodontid is even a little ambitious, lots of deinonychosaurs with raised second digits

[somber nebula]

Ichnotaxons are not diagnostic at all, and not really worthy of an article like this. Alongside that, it’s supposedly a troodontid, which means it can be any species of terrestrial amniote known to man, and will be dubious for the rest of human history.

[light oxide]

Here is the picture (Note: the upper one, I think, is supposedly the new "troodontid"):

The footprints look . . . Weird to me. Are those what typical dromaeosaur/troodontid footprints look like?

[lavish frigate]

Why is the art of a Dromaeosaur if it’s about a megaraptor

Oh wait

Do they just mean big raptor

[lavish frigate]

Fluffy ornithopod my beloved….

[kindred lagoon]

Yall how is saurophaganax different from allosaurus besides it being bigger? Like how do we know it’s not just a huge allosaurus

[tough parcel]

That is due to warping from the soft substrate the tracks were preserved in

@kindred lagoon Saurophaganax is poorly studied and the public (verified) information is fairly scant. The big difference that I can recall right now is the difference in the chevrons (The bones on the bottom of the tail)

[steady rock]

whats the largest nodasaurid?

[woeful falcon]

Peloroplites? Correct me if wrong

[bright veldt]

Seems like it

[compact leaf]

yeah it’s peloroplites, the thing is an absolute monster

[warped peak]

Isn't it only like 2 tons?

[topaz shell]

ONLY?

[flint stream]

basicly you will have result of armadillo or pangolin like style

[amber thunder]

if ankylosaurus is like 4-5 tons, peloro has to be about 4 tons too if u had to ass pull a mass

[amber thunder]

yeah but this is one of those times u cant rlly downsize this by a lot, its still a 4+m animal (and wudnt be the first time we have giant troodonts anyways)

also belly feathers is one of the silliest copes for ankylosaur feathers

[tough parcel]

Literally said that this is society

[amber thunder]

why do u choose to hang out here

[tough parcel]

That is a great question that I actually do not know the answer to

[sullen cairn]

he says in the exact same channel

lmfao

[tough parcel]

Lmao

Aw RIP

[sullen cairn]

they hated jesus because he spoke the truth

[amber thunder]

1984ed - also re: table someone has to stop the lies

[tough parcel]

No, someone needs to spread them

The ferocious 50 ton Edmontosaurus bull in musth must be made known

[amber thunder]

augustynolophus getawaycoulliensis*

[sullen cairn]

gorgosaurus infradinosaurparkensis*

[warped peak]

Siats vs Bahariasaurus

[tough parcel]

BRB lumping every NA tyrannosaur into Gorgosaurus for the meme

[sullen cairn]

isn't that by definition lumping them into albertosaurus

[warped peak]

Lump them all into Nanotyrannus

[amber thunder]

ppl would rejoice upon something being lumped into albertosaurus for once

[warped peak]

Lump Albertosaurus and Albertaceratops

[sullen cairn]

i assure you dear tyrannobro, these isolated indet tyrannosaur teeth in russia are clearly attributable to albertosaurus

[woeful falcon]

So long as that something isn't gorgosaurus I 100% agree very much yes

[warped peak]

"There are too many 'distinct' tyrannosaur genuses"

[sullen cairn]

that's why we have a half dozen upcoming new taxa most of which are likely diagnosed by single incomplete bones

[tough parcel]

Shhh, they can't know about Tyrannothanatodoomkillersaurus

[sullen cairn]

its rather telling that we couldn't distinguish if naish's very clearly satirical etymologies were actually intended for the new taxa

[amber thunder]

i feel like i can just lie here and itd just be believed

[compact leaf]

probably tbh

[amber thunder]

and i feel like this has happened many times already

[compact leaf]

not as much as you would think

me adding a meter to brachiosaurus every time I mention mature sizes until someone notices

[sullen cairn]

i've learned the hard way in this server that there's a very fine line straddling sarcasm and flagrant misinformation

[tough parcel]

And that line is really funny to step on

[steady rock]

how accurate was dino dan quetz

[warped peak]

Which is more complete, Siats or Baharia?

[scenic flame]

No

[sharp canyon]

About as accurate as the first drawing of a T-Rex I ever made at age 5

[fossil ingot]

I don't think is the worse ngl

But resembles more a BIG Ptera.

[sharp canyon]

Which is nothing like Quetz

[somber nebula]

Siats, because its cumulative material weighs more than a few grams and will not be blown away by a slight breeze.

[flint stream]

moderator ?

[rich root]

I'm new to paleontology, any good starting websites and stuff to get into it?

[sharp canyon]

Dinosaur with Stephen Fry

[outer tusk]

Cool design but it's terrible as hell from a accuracy sake

[ocean drum]

Terribly inaccurate

This is pretty much what is what it should look like as of current knowledge

[cosmic fox]

no

[stable sonnet]

Is bruhathkayosaurus still valid? I seem to remember hearing otherwise?

[snow python]

How big was the largest tylosaurus?

[snow python]

It appears it was a 7-8m abelisaurid. The giant sauropod is still unnamed.

[tough parcel]

@sullen cairn is a world renown expert regarding the status of Bruhathkayosaurus, studying it deeply to better understand it

[stable sonnet]

Cheers guys, sauropods aren’t my forte and I didn’t want to mislead my friend. Have a great day!

Oh ok, cool

[tough parcel]

A better elaboration:

It's (possibly) a chimera, which means multiple animals accidentally assumed to be one. Bruhath has a few bones that might belong to a sauropod, but the holotype is likely to be an abelisaur

[last iron]

Maybe it’s just a 200 ton abelisaurid

[stable sonnet]

Awesome, I’ll pass that on. Thanks again.

[warped peak]

Here's an interesting topic

There's supposed fossil records of crinoids reaching 70 feet (likely based off extrapolation), with some apparently being candidates go exceed 100 feet

Is there any solid evidence on this? The most consistent cited evidence is a random book on paleontology, but there's so little love for crinoids it seems entirely plausible that it could just be real and almost completely unknown

[bitter oasis]

@white matrix Please don't troll or provoke other users, refer to our #rules . Thank you

[warped peak]

Petition to name Alderon Kangaroo to Alderon Procoptodon

[hearty cargo]

Signed

[hallow spear]

fun fact, falcon is not human he is in fact a dinosaur

[tough parcel]

True!

[warped peak]

No crinoid fans?

[lavish frigate]

Crinoids be based

[west drum]

https://twittervx.com/sirblameson/status/1674144409947086852?s=46&t=PAdtCY04F-b8n-F5C9BfTA

[bright veldt]

A bit too lizardy to its credit. The straight up tail thwack’s a bit much.

[west drum]

I personally like it, it’s a depiction anyways

[topaz shell]

I like priors allo

[sudden wind]

I honestly very much like what Blameson does. This take on theropod interaction is cool and not very far off from what we see in animals.

[somber nebula]

Love this. It's very lifelike, and, like what Scanova said, it's very lizard-like, with the beginning of the fight and the movements of the Allosaurs when they are wrestling being very reminiscent of varanids, at least to me.

Don't know how I feel about lizard similarities, but makes a bit of sense since Allosauroids aren't super closely related to birds.

[warped peak]

No love for tall Starfish :c

[woeful falcon]

I like it up until they both fall over rather clumsly and then the tail slap. It very quickly goes from feeling natural to someone trying to make it look natural imo

[bright veldt]

Yeah that's my thing. I don't want to take away from the buildup that part's good.

[sharp canyon]

To me it almost looks like the tail slap was an accident

[barren lagoon]

i love it as a fellow dino modeler and animator i am interested to how you desided how to animate it

[crude latch]

I don’t think they animated it

[tough parcel]

“Here’s mine”

[west drum]

I didn’t animate it :(

[crude latch]

The person above me said How you decided to animate it

I wasn’t talking about the tweet itself

[barren lagoon]

oh

sorry

[hearty cargo]

They look so silly (in a good way)
The end is a little odd but I know how hard animating is so I don't mind

[plucky basin]

long time since no post dossier updates

[sudden mica]

People, why does the hatz no longer attack in the air, now it becomes terrestrial? It's no longer fun, it's a pain to kill someone on earth and even any attack will kill the hatz. Did the chat disappear?

[heady bay]

You will have an easier time getting questions like that answered in #path-of-titans since Paleo Chat is for people talking about natural history and paleontology related topics and not gameplay topics.

[sharp canyon]

Also Hatz was more designed for the ground to begin with

[heady bay]

^

[outer tusk]

Wait what why did our messages get deleted

[bright veldt]

Assuming for rudeness despite the dude's comment being unwarranted and offtopic.

[tough parcel]

Wasn't even rude, it's stating a fact lmao

[outer tusk]

Forgot but too add should I add anything to make feel "alive" ig at least with the detail such as lines

[flint stream]

just do artwork i think my jakapil is accurate enough

[flint stream]

questioning abt jakapil environment region. is it sub arid enviroment ? bc its live on candeleros formation

[flint stream]

is it rlly arid subarid environment in candeleros formation ?

[white matrix]

Yes

[valid siren]

how i enter game????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[bright veldt]

Wrong chat

[valid siren]

where i go for that

[bright veldt]

#path-of-titans ?

[sullen cairn]

in the name of not giving people hemorrhages edmonto masses but now its a graph instead of an epileptic lightshow

[heady thunder]

Rex fooder graph

[hallow spear]

I mean its entirely possible at least for the majority, it seems a little too flexible at thge tip but overall its cool imo

[glacial trail]

why is lambeo ingame so small? saw pictures that make it as big as para

[sullen cairn]

because its not as big as para

[nocturne merlin]

your probably thinking of big paul then (mangnapaulia)

[glacial trail]

what is its estimated size

[halcyon cobalt]

para is also usually shown smaller than ingame in da media

[sullen cairn]

like 2.5-3t

[glacial trail]

saw that and was wondering

i think thats just a meme

[sullen cairn]

yeah big thing's now magnapaulia

[noble dune]

big paul

[glacial trail]

i was wondering cus lambeo looks so small next to achillo allo dasp (wich i know are oversized) but then why they didnt oversize it to

[nocturne merlin]

dasp and allo need to swap size

[sullen cairn]

guys the allo isn't really that oversized it's just a big allo plz

[glacial trail]

i dont like the idea of a big allo its just saurophaganax but not saurophaganax allo is really cool with it being normel sized

[sullen cairn]

there's also large non-oklahoman allosaurid material probably referable to allosaurus proper

[heady thunder]

Pots allo is only big allo size if sauro is allo

[sullen cairn]

there's non-sauro specimens that are pretty large
and even then the largest uncontroversial allosaurus isn't fully grown if you want to pull the pycno card

but i wouldn't say the case for big allosaurus is any worse than that for having a big spino

[native kindle]

there's very few upsizes in this game over 20%, and most of those serve to make the playable less niche/serve their ideas better

megalania, sarco, spino, achillo. only ones that don't make a whole lot of sense are eotrike and bars, and one of them can be attributed to what the perk owner wanted out of eotrike based on what they knew

[flint stream]

lambei is soo small

[hallow spear]

The Peterson one?

[woeful falcon]

Eh, I would call it oversized still. It still has at least 2 meters over the largest Allosaurus. And sure you can play the "still growing" game as with Pycno and that's fair, and that means we don't know how big it would have really gotten. 2 meters worth is a lot of growing. But even so using the one Pycno we have as justification vs the plethora of Allosaurus that aren't that huge, that don't sit right with me either. Pycno is a greater unknown. Above all else, PoT allo used to be smaller. It got upscaled to where it is, not unlike a lot of creatures in the roster. I don't imagine PoT devs were using the fact that the largest Allo wasn't fully grown for this. I don't imagine they even know Pycno wasn't fully grown. They're just taking the estimate they see, and bumping it up a couple meters, unless you're Das.

Tldr, that's cope dawg.

[compact leaf]

it also depends on the animal in game, if you scale some things together they come out to accurate size (like amarga and allo next to each other scale correctly even if both are upsized)

[woeful falcon]

I might go as far as to say even Alio prolly isn't a purported "adult estimate", and its size and the fact that (more) mature Alioramin proportions differ from other tyrannosaurids is sheer coincidence

[sharp canyon]

So why do we use "claws" for non-avian dinosaurs and not "talons"?

[heady thunder]

Claws are for based terrestrial animals

[woeful falcon]

Talon for bird of prey, claw for the rest of the world

Just semantics tho. I'm sure you could refer to them as talons occasionally and no one would bat an eye

[flint stream]

i can see why

[tawdry lintel]

Could I ask here if a fossil is legit ?

[sullen cairn]

si

[hallow spear]

Used a sub adult lambeo we hate u

[sullen cairn]

tbf every other lambeo skeletal looks ugly

[hallow spear]

nuh uh GATs looks fire with some edits

[sullen cairn]

true but that takes time and effort

and then it sets a precedent which means you're gonna have to use gsps hypacrosaurus at some point

also with the allo discussion how big is in-game allo anyways

[stiff osprey]

12m iirc

[crude latch]

I read GATS as Gyaat, the brain rot is consuming me

[sullen cairn]

well there's probably some epenterias scaling of questionable merit that ends up that large so i'll accept it

and it's not even 5% longer than nmmnh (i will ignore that the thing is 70% tail)

[native kindle]

it's "only" a bit over 11 iirc

any specific sizing would need someone with devkit to breach NDA i believe

[stiff osprey]

people usually measure these game models in a straight line, so if it's 11m the centra length is probably around 12

[compact leaf]

it comes to right about 3m tall at the hip too iirc

[hallow spear]

so what you;'re saying is its basically Peterson allo sized

[hallow spear]

coracoid scaling based on USNM allo gets larg size :3

[sullen cairn]

anyways looking at it and the size difference doesn't seem too egregious relative to say pete iii and the peterson allosaur

notwithstanding the actual thought process behind the in-game sizes

[outer tusk]

how big is Pete iii & Peterson?

[sullen cairn]

prolly a bit under 4t and approaching 5t respectively

[woeful falcon]

I think its easier to say devs oversized it a bit than to try and push the envelope and explain its size with a might-be-allo that 4 people in this discord are aware of

I'm also of the opinion they went with the size they did for gameplay reasons. Less problems with an expected grapple mechanic if the Allosaurus isn't too small

[sullen cairn]

fair but i like being contrarian

[woeful falcon]

Fair lol

There are 100% more egregious upscales than allo tho, that's for sure. I think it just burns people, myself included at one point, to see das looking kinda puny

[sullen cairn]

yeah i suppose when it all adds together das does just end up feeling kinda small

[junior dawn]

im a strong believer that allo was upsized to fill that size gap that used to exist there, as well as them just being like "well, some people think sauro is allo, so its fine"
and separating it from daspleto more, size wise. Cause back then there wasnt a lot of playables and seeing how random sizes are, i doubt they knew what they were going to do with future releases

[heady bay]

Wasn't one of the species for in-game allo maximus during the earlier years of the game?

I swear it had maximus as a selectable species but was replaced with jimmadseni

[junior dawn]

nah, it was amplexus

[tawdry lintel]

Is this Mosasaurus tooth real ?

[flint stream]

its saurophaganax maximus but i heard its still debate if it is A.maximus or seperate genus

[bright veldt]

They're referring to the ingame allo 3rd species before it was changed to jimbo

[viral jasper]

anything else I need to add aside from Edmonto's iconic back scutes?

[fast hollow]

The tail seems a bit thin to me

[viral jasper]

hadrosaurs have notoriously thing tails if that helps

also based it off some tail bones I found in a museum I volunteer at.

[hallow spear]

frills

or skin tabs, they are made of soft tissue

[tough parcel]

(They're scales)

[hallow spear]

(they have scales on them, they cannot be scales lol)

[tough parcel]

Do show an image

[viral jasper]

Hadrosaurs had frills?

[hallow spear]

they have been reffered to as frills but more recently as skin tabs

[viral jasper]

you mean the scutes?

this?

[hallow spear]

i just said they artn scutes

[viral jasper]

then I am not sure what it is

[tough parcel]

Please provide visual reference for the poor guy instead of just saying it

[hallow spear]

i also JUST said they are frills / tabs
AND I AM FALCON BUT THIS CD

• you asked for pics

[tough parcel]

[viral jasper]

I think that has to added with the highpoly sculpt

[hallow spear]

A mention of "frill" im too lazy to find the more recent use of them reffering to them as like scale tabs or Midline feature tabs or whatever

Realistically im not even too sure of the consensus there was a discussion about them previously, although there are multiple depicts with a keratin like structure which is confusing
I do know they are not scutes though

(As well as multiple namings of them, Midline feature scales, scaled tabs, segmented frills)

[woeful falcon]

I like tab, just because that's what they look like lol

[river plinth]

Pretty sure at least the larger ones have a little muscle or meat on it like a snakes or els tail imo that's really to thin 😅

[river plinth]

Yes

[river plinth]

Yes saying they were more like bumps not pointed like scutes

[storm heron]

Woah woah, the "scutes" of Edmontosaurus aren't scutes? this is news to me.

I wasn't aware they had scales on them. I wonder if there are any potential modern day examples of these "skin tabs".

[silk radish]

Hadrosaur appreciation

[flint stream]

their mummified sheet of skin

[flint stream]

frills ?? i've never heard that one before

those bumpy things on the back of edmontosaurus ?

[flint stream]

btw question: how many edmontosaurus synonym it has ? i heard tracodont, anatotitan/anatosaurus, and uurgunaluk. is there more synonym across edmontosaurus name in history'

[bright veldt]

Bout it from what I can tell

[lucid ibex]

I feel like drawing a Pterosaur, which one should I do?

[native kindle]

darwinopterus

[sudden wind]

Albadraco

[lucid ibex]

Alrighty :)

[fallow quiver]

It’s cool to think that lots of modern day animals can kill dinosaurs

[outer tusk]

What are you talking about

[bright veldt]

Yeah idk either. They’re still animals it’s common sense.

[ocean drum]

Well yeah some spiders kill birds (birds are dinosaurs) I know you are referring to non-avian dinosaurs but still wanted to point it out

[rigid pilot]

İs there offtopic chat?

[sudden wind]

No, there are no offtopic chat on this discord

[tough parcel]

The gigantic Argentinosaurus when elephant gun

[white matrix]

Titanfall

[barren lagoon]

Scientific accuracy of my dromeosaur head?

[stray wren]

looks pretty good

[wind prairie]

do ducks have recessive genes for bony tails?

[stiff osprey]

not any more than other birds do

[wind prairie]

so theoretically with genetic technology advanced enough, any bird could be modified to have teeth, wing claws, or a tail?

I'm not jack horner I swear this is just me trying to make a concept for a game

[white matrix]

the fearsome tyrannosaurus when it gets blown up by a landmine

[lucid ibex]

The formidable spinosaurus when the fog

[cloud dagger]

Iirc some researchers have messed up with hox genes in chicken embryos and it grew teeth to its beak in one case and more fingers with claws on wings in the previous experiment

[wind prairie]

neat

[white matrix]

it's coming

[stiff osprey]

It didn't grow teeth, just changed its beak into more of a snout

Getting birds to re-evolve teeth would be extremely difficult, though I guess you could get them to have beaks with tooth-like structures like Pelagornis

[glacial latch]

hey all, so my dino is stuck but /respawn wont work because my character hasn't "been alive long enough" Anybody know how long that time is?

[woeful falcon]

It's like 5 minutes or something. also this is paleo chat

[glacial latch]

https://tenor.com/view/waynes-world-nice-one-thumbs-up-smile-gif-16164759

[amber thunder]

neat tip for cool kids going into paleo: dont call the hadro scales a "frill"

cringe terminology

[kindred night]

neat tip for cool kids going into paleo: don't

[sharp canyon]

Who calls scales frills?

[amber thunder]

thespesius, trachodon, anatotitan, anatosaurus, uugrunalak, but also claosaurus agilis, e. "saskatchewanensis"

also there were multiple species within trachodon and thespesius at one point or another that became current edmontosaurus

[amber thunder]

real as hell

[amber thunder]

also a second species of agauthamas

[amber thunder]

like any lizard with a row of midline dorsal scales (iguanas, etc) would be a modern example lol

theyre not exact copies obv but it gets the idea across

[tulip otter]

Yo can y’all dm me as many ACCURATE crichtonpelta restorations you can find

[steady rock]

what was the largest early cretaceous carnivore for each continent?

[regal cloak]

reminder on how big maip was! art not mine btw

[true urchin]

does anyone have the most up to date giga skeletal?

im trying to see whether I need to update this model, especially the head

[topaz shell]

I’d say it’s pretty spot on

[tough parcel]

Giga has not changed since Dan

[true urchin]

I believe this was the one I used, but idk if its out of date now

[bright veldt]

Acrocanthosaurus, Tyrannotitan, Riparovenator, Suchomimus, Timimus, Ichthyovenator, No Antarctica Proper Early Cretaceous Theropods

That was a very niche question so I might've missed something.

[steady rock]

UH UH
america, south america...europe? africa....asia? and autstralia

[bright veldt]

NA, SA, Europe, Africa, Australia, Asia

[steady rock]

i was close

[bright veldt]

Timimus is literally the only early cretaceous theropod known from Australia it won by default

[steady rock]

austrovenator was late cretaceous?

[bright veldt]

Yes

[steady rock]

crazy, also, i swear there should've been something bigger then icthyovenator of all things

[bright veldt]

All the other contenders ik about like Siamraptor and Kelmayisaurus still aren't as big

[steady rock]

asia fell off after the late jurassic 😔

also, i know this may be a dumb question but, was mongoliastegus the last stegosaurid? ( that we know of)

[bright veldt]

I don't think we have an exact latest stegosaur. Various early cretaceous taxa and undescribed remains are from around the same time in the Albian.

[steady rock]

but none of them made it to the late cretaceous, correct?

also i find it interesting that every cretaceous stegosaurid was in asia i believe?

[bright veldt]

Yeah seemed like a holdout for them. And yeah the Albian's when we last see stegosaurs, although it's not clear if that's around the time they died out or if it was later

[steady rock]

and then after all the stegosaurs died, the ankylosaurids exploded in variety and population in mongolia atleast

[last iron]

Me

[steady rock]

holy Micropachycephalosaurus, its Acrocanthosaurus atokensis!

[white matrix]

No way is that the world famous Acrocanthosaurus atokensis from Cretaceous North America

[last iron]

Yes it is I

[steady rock]

whats your opinon on how to cook a sauropelta

[last iron]

I don’t cook them just eat them raw

[steady rock]

arent they spikey and pointy

[last iron]

Not if you flip them over https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dinosaurs/images/e/e4/Sauropelta-a-nodosaurid-dinosaur-mohamad-haghani.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150205183205

[daring forge]

flip it over like the indominus rex

[storm heron]

Oh yea, they visually similar to that of some lizards. But they aren't scales, they are some form of soft tissue. I was wondering if there are any modern examples of similar structures of that of Edmontosaurus (these raised soft tissue "scutes").

[sharp canyon]

Tiny dragon

[open compass]

Guys, does anyone have the size of sauropods from the Morrison Formation?

[nocturne merlin]

probably inaccurate but idk

[open compass]

There are a lot of sauropods in one formation woah

[stiff osprey]

It does span 10 million years and as many US states

[flint stream]

more than 10 species. majority are macronerians and diplodocoidae

[zinc barn]

Tyrannosauroidea indet.?

[flint stream]

i thinks is basal one but idk how it manage to live in world of sauropod and 4 main predator

[zinc barn]

I didn't know about it, but it seems really tiny

[flint stream]

i thinks its proceratosauridae like

[zinc barn]

Btw why is there such a size difference between Barosaurus sp. and this species of Barosaurus lentus?

[flint stream]

different fossil material but idk larger speciment of diplodocoidae like supersaurus, seismosaurus and barosaurus still in debate of its true size. i think supersaurus and seismosaurus are infact

could be wrong abt me

[compact leaf]

the huge barosaurus isn’t actually barosaurus, it got reclassified as supersaurus and promptly downsized

[zinc barn]

Actually, really?

[flint stream]

so its supersaurus. and supersaurus is still currently valid ?

[zinc barn]

I've already heard about the 37m barosaurus but that changed again..?

[compact leaf]

yeah supersaurus is valid

[flint stream]

seismosaurus ? invalid if i correct

[compact leaf]

seismosaurus got sank into diplodocus, which could change but for the time being it’s D. hallorum

[flint stream]

oh so its become D. hallorum not seismosaurus again

[steady rock]

What would you say is the more devastating defense measure
Stegosaur thagomiser
Or
Anyklosaur club

[flint stream]

club i think

[halcyon cobalt]

thagomiser

i would rather my shins broken than me torso pierced by giant spikes that also penetrate bone

[steady rock]

I know this may be a dumb question, but do we know how fast each creature could move their tail? Because I feel I may have a chance to move somewhat out of the way of a anyklosaurs tail swing, instead of my torso being broken, only my arm gets shattered

[halcyon cobalt]

idk but stegosaurs had a lot more range of motion ( the stegosaur image is of kentro but iont think that matters )

[halcyon cobalt]

what ossified tendons do to an mf

[hallow spear]

It is a bit old but its not too bad

[hallow spear]

Inbefore the Maas stegosaur is uncovered

different shape and structure

[compact leaf]

it’s out there we just need to find it

[crude latch]

Both are equally lethal imo.

[stiff osprey]

To a human, yeah
To a larger dinosaur, the thagomizer is deadlier

[heady bay]

The club might’ve been more use against rivals of the same species as opposed to predator defense from what some recent papers say.

[tough parcel]

I mean, I doubt you're fighting mating competitors as much as you are fighting the local hungry hungry hippo

[heady bay]

I feel like the predator avoidance, armored skin and the wide body of ankylosaurus likely played a more pivotal roll in predator defense than its hard hitting but inflexible tail did. Not that its tail couldn’t do damage but I don’t think its tail was as useful in that specific situation as the tail of stegosaurs due to the limited range of movement.

[tough parcel]

The tail is flexible though? The rigidness only really starts ~middle of the tail

[heady bay]

It looks pretty limited here

[tough parcel]

Yes, that does not go against what I said

[ancient crystal]

Yeah, but if a predator is already within the range of the tail, there doesn't appear to be much that the club can do.

[trail jewel]

If y’all are interested in Cretaceous marine fossils, be sure to check out my newest video on my fossil hunting YT channel!
https://youtu.be/9w4T0JrGF9k

[west coral]

insert self advertisement here

[tough parcel]

What? If the predator is at a range that there is "not much the club can do" then the animal is already dead

[ancient crystal]

I don't really know how to explain this well lol

I mean that if a predator is close enough to the ankylosaur that the club cannot hit anything since the end of the tail is rigid.

[bright veldt]

Ankylosaurs are generally not that large. A tyrannosaur with its jaws near the body still has the legs within striking range.

[tough parcel]

Smol

That and animals can pivot on their legs, they do not stand in one place and swing. They will be moving to angle the tail towards their opponent

If that opponent managed to bypass their main weapon, the anyklosaur is dead

[ancient crystal]

True, I'm just saying that compared to a stegosaurus' thagomizers, the club has an extremely limited range where it is effective.

To be honest I don't really remember why that is relevent but it made sense in my head at the time

[tough parcel]

God me too 😭

[white matrix]

What is Thalassodromeus because I’ve heard some people call it a short necked azhdarkid and others call it a tapejara

[white matrix]

Wiki isn’t a reliable source

[tough parcel]

Yes it is

[white matrix]

Not when it contradicts itself

[white matrix]

So nobody can agree if it’s an azhdarchid or a tapejarid

[tough parcel]

No, Thalassodrominae is the one whose placement is in question

[white matrix]

Oh okay that makes more sense

[tough parcel]

[rigid pilot]

Or will it even come out?

[tough parcel]

Evidently

[rigid pilot]

İ need new glasses💀

[marsh tapir]

@rigid pilot Hey there! We're unable to confirm whether Path of Titans will be available as a physical media. If you'd like to see the game also available in that manner, please, make a post on our Feedback Board! Which you can reach through #suggestions.

Also, please keep in mind that for any Path of Titans related topics, utilize the #path-of-titans channel. This channel here is dedicated to Paleo discussions and conversations about the game would be considered off-topic. Refer to the channel's guidelines on it's pinned messages and check the server #rules. Thank you!

[bright veldt]

I consider thalassodromines their own family. They switch between ahzdarchids and tapejarids constantly and they're doing things different from both so.

[lavish frigate]

They just built different….

[sweet field]

Tapejaridae is within Azhdarchoidea. Azhdarchidae is a smaller family within it. So like how alligators and crocodiles are both in Crocodilia, but gators aren't crocodiles

[amber thunder]

are you sure

[tough parcel]

[white matrix]

Ah okay I think I get it now so they are both tapejarids and azhdarchids but not true azhdachids is that what you mean

[sweet field]

Well they are azhdarchoids, not azhdarcids

[storm heron]

Alright now Im confused, are the "scutes" on the back of Edmontosaurus feature scales or not.

[stiff osprey]

They are scales, I think the "they have scales on them" is a misinterpretation of the lateral bumps of E.regalis

[storm heron]

Oh, yea I remember that the bumps on the neck of Edmontosaurus had scales on them so when stated above I thought it was another similar case where the dorsal scutes had scales on them. Appreciate the clarification.

[tough parcel]

@hallow spear

[hallow spear]

The lateral bumps on E. regalis are scale clusters right or at least that’s what I’ve seen them reffered to as

So they are raised feature scales on the midline, with raised bumps on? (On annectens)

[hallow spear]

They arnt scutes still from what I know

Feature scales, scale tabs (I’ve also seen them called that), midline scales etc

[hallow spear]

Sure looks a lot like scales tho ngl

[stiff osprey]

Yeah they look like giant scales but aren't, because they have scales covering them

While the midline tabs of annectens are single scales

[flint stream]

i think its the thyeropoda the basal like scutelo, scelido. but i think more intresting is jakapil and stegorus (half ankylosauria and behalf of it stegosaurid tail).

the gondwana theyropoda tho. they quite build different

[hallow spear]

No I know the smaller ones are scales and the bigger ones arnt I thought you meant the smaller ones arnt scales whoopsie lol (I only know this from a previous discussion)

[hallow spear]

So single scales with raised bumps? As the preservation has bumps which look scale like but arnt? (For annectens)

[hallow spear]

You mean Thyreophora?

[flint stream]

yep

[hallow spear]

I like stegouros

[flint stream]

and jakapil. south american thyreophora are cool

[storm heron]

I think they meant that those bumps are actually raised soft tissue that have scales on them.

[native kindle]

Pachycephalosaurids aren't in Thyreophora

the conversation was about Thyreophorans

[flint stream]

they are magnirocephalia

they closet relative are the ceratopsia

[hallow spear]

Marginocephalia, so close

[flint stream]

then what. but what i can see pachycephalosauridae they closely related to ceratopsia

[hallow spear]

i prefer Micropachycephalosaurus

funny name & used to be a pachycephalosaur but isnt anymore

[flint stream]

so wait micropachycephalosaurus doesnt belong to the pachycephalosauridae anymore ? when the paper start been release ?

[hallow spear]

i dont understand what you're asking

[light oxide]

Apparently, I'm hearing that the two largest "Spinosaurus" specimens we got aren't Spinosaurus aegyptiacus anymore?

[bright veldt]

"Spinosaurus" as we know it is currently, most likely, a bunch of closely related spinosaurini spinosaurids lumped together.

This doesn't change our perspective on spinosaurus itself too much, because we'd still be referencing all the same material anyway, but it's something to consider. Spinosaurus probably didn't roam across the entirety of North Africa + maybe South America if you count "Oxalaia"

[lucid ibex]

I love Palaeontology as much as the next guy in this server but sometimes it truly does fry my brain

[hallow spear]

I mean it’s possible

[bright veldt]

It is but it's also messy.

[hallow spear]

Stegosaurus managed to get to Portugal and China, (as well as NA)

[bright veldt]

tf you mean China? I know of the Portugal Stego remains but that isn't much of a surprise.

[hallow spear]

https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0195667124000259 @bright veldt

[bright veldt]

Ok this is new. Gotcha

Wait, Early Cretaceous, what?

[hallow spear]

There were quite a lot of Cretaceous stegosaurs found recently

[bright veldt]

I know that, but Stegosaurus itself Early Cretaceous?

[hallow spear]

Yea until it’s potentially refuted(split from Stegosaurus) but it clades sister to Stenops which is a key thing

[bright veldt]

If this is what the paper's suggesting then I have my doubts

[hallow spear]

Keep in mind stegosaur research is vastly lacking, obviously it should be taken with caution but it’s very clear that it’s extremely close to Stenops (and homheni)

It’s probably as Stegosaurus sp. Due to Stegosaurus homheni being present (instead of it being split as a genus)

This does however mean stegosaurs were more abundant in the Cretaceous then once thought

[bright veldt]

It did seem to be where their holdout was after Europe and especially North America got ravaged

[compact leaf]

they’re also just one of those groups that is notoriously spotty outside of a few select areas, we can tell they were there but there’s lots of gaps

insert cedar mountain stegosaur footprints

[hallow spear]

I’ve heard of that but I havnt seen it, can you get pics?

Also Considering the youngest stegosaur is from the Late Cretaceous we are def missing a lot of data on stegosaurs

[sullen cairn]

ngl the jurassic-cretaceous kinda sucked balls at being a meaningful terrestrial megafaunal extinction event

[hallow spear]

People also forget we have very concrete cretaceous stegosaur footprints in the genus Deltapodus https://a-dinosaur-a-day.com/post/137849948025/deltapodus

[sullen cairn]

what clades even died out at the end of the jurassic anyways

[hallow spear]

im not too sure

[sullen cairn]

ig allosaurids but thats kinda cheating considering its essentially monogeneric

[compact leaf]

let me see if I can find them I’ll get back to you

[light osprey]

allosaurus died, truly this is the beginning of a new age of the Mesozoic

[hallow spear]

ty!

[hallow spear]

look in thyreophora btw #646191752343978004 message

[bright veldt]

Diplodocids got destroyed. idk why the conditions were so bad for them in particular but they got thanos-snapped

There's one genus/lineage that held on in South America for a bit longer but that's really it

[compact leaf]

ok so I didn't find the tracks yet but I did find something weirder, this paper about cedar mountain flora from 1985 references a single tooth they attribute to stegosaurus itself

I don't have access to more than the abstract but the locality is in Utah, no dating given

[hallow spear]

Can you send the abstract?

[compact leaf]

yeah hang on a sec

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3671046

[hallow spear]

Thanks! People also forget there are Maas stegosaur trackways lol

[bright veldt]

what

WHERE

[chilly knot]

new dropped?

[hallow spear]

Lameta fm india

[chilly knot]

[bright veldt]

wtf

[hallow spear]

stegosaur pes and manus are diagnostic, no "what if" for you

Dravido(Coniacian) and the Deltapodus footprint (Mass) both from India

[chilly knot]

🫦

[lavish frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-huh-cat-huh-etr-gif-15332443943609734737

[hallow spear]

The morpholy of Dravido seems to be similar to the Itat unnamed stegosaur

[sullen cairn]

come to think of it i suppose sinostegosaurus lends further credence to camps torvosaur

[hallow spear]

whAT

[sullen cairn]

so like upper jurassic china has some cf. torvosaurus verts
and camps theropod is femoral fragment as wide as sue
but torvosaurus has really robust femora
so if you scale it with torvosaurus its like 6t instead of 11t

[hallow spear]

what is sinostegosaurus though 😭

[sullen cairn]

the chinese stegosaurus sp

[hallow spear]

OHHHHHH

[sullen cairn]

granted its early cretaceous but muh china-the rest of the world faunal interchange

[flint stream]

there's yanbeilong recently discovered stegosauria from early cretaceous being the last of they species

[flint stream]

not this emoji

[somber nebula]

Megalosaurids. Spinosaurids still persisted, but to my knowledge, the latest surviving "proper" Megalosaurids were Torvosaurus and Leshansaurus, who died out at the end of the Jurassic.

[somber nebula]

Also Weurhosaurus. It's got a few known species, and it's generally pretty well understood. Also quite large, even for Stegosaurids, topping out at about 4.5 tons and 7 meters.

[sullen cairn]

there's probable megalosaurid teeth in lower cretaceous argentina

[somber nebula]

Had no idea, the thought of Megalosaurs surviving longer than previously thought does sound really interesting.

Argentina’s natural history is absolutely peak

[hallow spear]

This is from GSP and is wrong

[somber nebula]

GSP?

[hallow spear]

Gregory s paul

The mass and length

[somber nebula]

Oh, damn. Thought it was from Dong, who described it, and who’s pretty reliable lol.

[barren lagoon]

whats the most recent austroraptor skeleton reconstruction

[bright veldt]

probably this one

[woeful falcon]

Aye. Hartman also updated his around the same time, but idk if he actually changed anything or just updated his formatting

[hallow spear]

No he updated his, Hartmans is older

Both are fine but I’d pick Hartman due to him being good ol reliable

[regal sentinel]

Did anyone see the new paper on T rex that came out

[hallow spear]

Go away falcon noob

[tough parcel]

What happened this time

[hallow spear]

Many stegosaur

[tough parcel]

[tough parcel]

Considering he:
A) Very often uses material not released, such as Utahraptor
B) Has no reason to post WIPs
C) Has nowhere to post said WIPS

Idk if that's even a good criticism

And tbh like

Random, Franoys, Dan, they all have the same amount of transparency lmao

That's...that's literally how you make a skeletal????????

How do you think he scaled it then

And you do realize if he went solely by figures, the skeletals would turn out significantly worse and he would not be considered a professional, right?

Also, I would like to see these skeletals where you "always find out he'd miscale somewhere"

[crude latch]

Everytime I see GAT I read it as GYAT and want to die

[woeful falcon]

Good place to start when addressing a claim is the alleged errors

What are they

[tough parcel]

Yes, that is indeed one...and all the others? There should be a significant amount to warrant these claims, no?

Also last I checked, a gigantic majority of those "edits" were pose edits

As Hartman is apparently allergic to neutral lmao

[woeful falcon]

That's not to say he or any other skeletal artist isn't incapable of error, but so far you've just provided blank statements that need a little backing in my opinion

[sullen cairn]

I CAN FINALLY THE MAKE JOKE

[tough parcel]

Table what are you doing

[sullen cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/valentines-hate-hate-valentines-day-valentines-fail-spongebob-patrick-gif-7755076

[woeful falcon]

I will never not hate this

[tough parcel]

LMAO 😭

Table's first funny moment (A lie)

As in not first

[woeful falcon]

True Falcon you are lying

This isn't funny

[flint stream]

oh no

[tough parcel]

The opposition is silent, we did it boys (I assume they're getting the errors)

[crude latch]

What even happened here

[tough parcel]

Legit nothing?

[crude latch]

For me, big words= chaos. Because I don’t understand them

[tough parcel]

Ah

That is the single Qianzhou you have already mentioned

Where are the others?

So giving you the benefit of the doubt that these other two do have issues, that still lives his entire portfolio

So?

Random is simplified as well

Hartman is a bit moreso, but it is still close

Looking at his DA, he has 108 skeletals posted there, but I know he has more on his website, then even more on his Patreon/Twitter

[sullen cairn]

if we are doing this i'd like to mention his maiasaura skeletal seems to have undersized limbs relative to the reported measurements

[tough parcel]

And Ima be honest, so far these egregious errors you lament are really just nitpicks

The shape of a femur, the slight size difference in a radius? No-one cares because they are not (or well, should not) be using skeletals to replace actual paper images

[tough parcel]

Erm wart der frick, you're supposed to gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss with me...

[sullen cairn]

the tragic thing with maia is that all the specimens with readily accessible measurements are tibiae from that histology
so when you scale them to the skeletal they end up very large

[tough parcel]

Good

The true Terror of Egg Mountain™️

[sullen cairn]

and then people take the 4t allometry estimates at face value and it all falls apart

[tough parcel]

Don't worry about it

[sullen cairn]

its like killdozer edmonto but if edmonto was 2/3rds the size of rex at the absolute largest

[tough parcel]

Its superior speed and agility on account of its small size will win the day

[sullen cairn]

the feeble daspletosaur will be slaughtered

granted im pretty sure horneri's like 2% smaller than torosus but i don't care enough to fix it

[tough parcel]

That 2% shrink decides the entire battle

[sullen cairn]

unironically if those measurements are correct maia might be one of the most overestimated dinosaurs in terms of mass
up there with rajasaurus

[tough parcel]

I'm not angry, I apologize if I came off that way. I am only irritated that you decided to belittle someone's living over something so trivial that it might as well not have even be stated.

If you have nothing else beyond saying, "you know whats with the paleonerd mentality, the smallest things can drive them angry", then I'm sorry, but I cannot conclude anything else beyond you have nothing and you're floundering for something

You still said it in reference to me

And thus, I have no interest in entertaining this conversation, I have a Sucho to toy with

[sullen cairn]

afaik there isn't much in the form of a thorough description of the thing

[snow python]

Is BYU 9024 Supersaurus or Barosaurus and how big it was?

[storm heron]

Wonder how he feels when he sees an animal stand still/neutral pose in a documentary. Probably skips forward or gets up and leaves.

[nocturne merlin]

barosaurus, i cannie find the size though

[snow python]

Lowest estimate I could find is 28-29m and the biggest 40-45m. I think it was more in the 33-36m range and 20t. Could be wrong though

[bright veldt]

AFAIK we don’t really know wether it’s Bar or Super? I think Super is the current opinion but another big baro also exists I’m pretty sure so it doesn’t change much. Both of them got to like 40 meters long. Weight unclear but I’ve heard like 40 tons.

[scenic flame]

tmk both are in the 40-45 meter range, the one huge baro specimen which was lumped into supersaurus was just one of a few giant 40+ meter baro specimens, at least I'm pretty sure that's the case

[snow python]

So baro and supersaurus are the longest and argent the most massive. Kallamedu giant don't count bcuz it no longer exists

[bright veldt]

Basically

[scenic flame]

when I was a kid my favourite Big diplodocid was Seismosaurus, though iirc it's invalid now. It was mainly the depiction from the book "dinosaurus and other prehistoric creatures" that made me like it

[bright veldt]

Seismosaurus just got lumped into diplo (D. hallorum). It’s still huge, like 30 meters long, sauropods just keep getting bigger.

[scenic flame]

this one (online image, not the one I own), it's missing several pages in the front and back aswell as the cover since I've had it for a very long time and it survived a house fire

[snow python]

What about mamenchi. sinocanadorum, was it really 33+m and 40-50t?

[flint stream]

maia is short

[stiff estuary]

Ayyyy I have the same book! Great one, even though outdated. 😁

[west drum]

Does anyone have a deinonychus skeletal similar in style to this?

[regal sentinel]

I have that same one

[compact leaf]

the only one I have ever noticed is in his brachi and it’s easily fixable, the neck is just too short because he compressed a few cervicals for some reason

[hallow spear]

which maia is this, palps edit?

[lavish frigate]

Excluding some JWE2 creatures I think sucho is probably the most accurate thing to come out of the JW franchise. probably due in part to (if I remember correctly) they got an outside source to design it lol

[bright veldt]

That goes for JW website designs in general. The one major flaw of that sucho is the small arms.

[tough parcel]

No? They're fine

Fran's is likely a better comparison as Dan didn't have his skeletal out then

[somber nebula]

Julius Csotonyi designed a lot of those visuals on the JW website, including that, and the Baryonyx, which explains why they’re oddly accurate lol.

I think he also designed the Metriacanthosaurus and Edmontosaurus but I’m not 100% sure.

[sullen cairn]

hartmans in neutral
so in theory the legs should be a bit longer than they are here

[west drum]

Anyone have some nice allosaurus skeletals?

[hallow spear]

Any specific species?

[open compass]

https://youtu.be/JvpdCadEWdc?si=1JlMCEA1KcKOW2vN

[open compass]

What's your opinion about these sounds? 1:25

[west drum]

fragilis!

[hallow spear]

This one that Falcon sent is Fragilis

[west drum]

Though europaeus is sort of the body type I’m looking for

[hallow spear]

Euro doesnt veen have enough to construct the body lol

[tough parcel]

I sent all three species

[hallow spear]

Adult Jimmadseni(Scaled and primarily based on Big al 2) and a Younger (Subadult?) specimen

[hallow spear]

(cf. Hesperosaurus mjosi)MWC 71, (cf. Allosaurus sp.)NMMNH P-26083 & (Allosaurus jimmadseni)BYU 13807
7.2m, 11.5m & 9.5m (In that order)

It wasnt downsized?

smartest moment

[west drum]

CBS deinonychus… their models are so gorgeous and accurate with a hint of their own little charm

[sweet field]

big

[proper panther]

New smilodon paper:

[white matrix]

video game weak spot

[dreamy relic]

What do yall think about stegosaurids ( kentrosaurus specifically )being able to go bipedal mode for a bit?

[regal sentinel]

Scary

[hallow spear]

Perfectly plausible

[polar scroll]

he doing the hadro position

[dreamy relic]

Especially for young individuals

[hallow spear]

A lack of restrictive scapula mobility, Non-ossified tendons, COM at the hip, Flexible etc

Also we have bipedal stegosaur trackways****

[bright veldt]

I like to think of them like bears. Not a traditional form of locomotion but they can do it.

[dreamy relic]

I love your tier lists
( completely off topic )

What about young saurapods?
( this was definitely less plausible )

[hallow spear]

It doesnt really make much sense to me

[bright veldt]

We have trackways of this too tmk

[hallow spear]

I thought they were disputed

[bright veldt]

I don’t know. I don’t think it’s that insane to suggest-lizard like bipedally sprinting though. That’s basically just rearing up, running forward, and letting momentum do lot of the work.

[dreamy relic]

Yeah

[warped peak]

Elaborate

[bright veldt]

I did hear talk of how smilodon likely hunted ground sloths by biting through the spine instead of the throat (although both would work in practice obviously)

For a large robust herbivore, the neck vertebrae of ground sloths is surprisingly gracile. Might’ve been a better target than trying to aim for the throat where the claws would be much more able for the sloth to defend itself

[proper panther]

Paper about how smilodons can hunt ground sloths

[warped peak]

Makes sense

[dreamy relic]

I did not expect you to be such a paleo nerd

[coarse pewter]

What exactly does “basal” mean? Keep hearing it get tossed around but confused on its meaning.

[amber thunder]

earlier diverging

[coarse pewter]

any examples?

[amber thunder]

this slow mo is insane i gotta wait a whole 20-

something that is derived is what u may consider "advanced" or appearing later in the family tree- like humans are the most derived monkey-type mammals. the opposite is basal, or earlier diverging, like lemurs being among the most basal monkey-type mammals. it doesnt mean theyre more primitive, just that they split off closer to the ancestral state. i.e the basal condition for coelurosaur integument is fuzz/feathers that get lost or modified later, and so on

its a somewhat relative word to describe things relationships in regard to their family tree and to contextualize evolutionary relationships and whatnot. its similar to but not equal to the classic definition of "primitive" which is not rlly in use anymore because the connotations

or well, isnt as widely use, it still has utility but i try to shy away from it personally

[coarse pewter]

So like, they did their own thing and split off?

[amber thunder]

not necessarily, its an adjective, a descriptor. like allosaurs are more basal than tyrannosaurs. sometimes they mean they did their own thing but thats just because unique lineages given time will end up doing their own thing anyways. its just a word to help contextualize relationships, usually in regards to distance from the last diverging members of any given tree. like baryonyx is a basal spinosaur, and its kind appeared a little earlier and is generally more similar to the ancestral state than like spinosaurus, the most derived spinosaur known

[coarse pewter]

So it’s closer to its ancestors than the more derived ones? They just haven’t changed as much?

[regal sentinel]

I feel like a picture explanation would work better, to explain this

[flint stream]

so they arent walk in bipedal mode

baby sauropod dont walk on 2 legs

[cosmic fox]

If it means early diverging, then basal means the member of the group least related to the other members.

[onyx sedge]

Is this accurate or? Trying learn more about dreadnoughtus

[knotty lake]

That's one looong boi

[flint stream]

mere in complete speciment dang

[tough parcel]

I believe so but @hallow spear and @stiff osprey would know a bit more cause I swear I remember hearing (at least Stego) say something about it, but I cannot recall

[flint stream]

the tail is almost completed but the half of the animal remains what i know. also i remember two neck vertebrae on dreagnoughtus

also. what titanosaurid skull shape in general would look like. i heard it has this diplodocid head shape or kind of macronerian skull like

[tough parcel]

I have no idea what or why you said what you said in the first bit

And sauropods are terrible at preserving skulls due to their fragile nature, you’d just need to take the best titanosaur skull we have

[flint stream]

i'm bit concern what the skull shape were look like but this is what we have got

well least rapetosaurus decently preserve skull i suppose

[flint stream]

they are huge animal right. the remains are either been taken away by scavangers or got decomposed by the element. best sure that is what and why sauropod fossil are rare

[sudden wind]

iirc Rapetosaurus is also immature.

[hallow spear]

Yes that one’s fine unless you count it needing cartilage but that’s meh

[open compass]

Guys, could ornitholestes hunt a dryosaurus?

[fallow quiver]

It’s like a baby giraffe

[bright veldt]

Probably not. Dryosaurus is like 10x it’s size.

[amber thunder]

https://x.com/lancianidolatry/status/1788572247290179631?s=61

Hell Creek Enthusiast (@LancianIdolatry) on X

Baenidae of Hell Creek

Baenids were the most successful of turtles in the late Cretaceous. Unable to retract their heads and possessing long tails, they lie outside the crown. A number of taxa are known only through shells or skulls, and potential pairings are reflected here.

Twitter · May 9, 2024, 2:10 PM

[amber thunder]

also no dryo is nowhere near that big lol. the size everyone thinks dryo is is close to dryos actual size, so yeah ornitho cud prob hunt it

[bright veldt]

Is dryo not like 4+ meters and over 100 kg?

[compact leaf]

from what I remember estimates generally hit a little over 3m and right about 100kg

[warped peak]

And weren't mature

Vs 15kg Ornitholestes

[compact leaf]

yeah I still don’t think ornitholestes was routinely going after it, there’s just easier things for it to hunt

[hallow spear]

Camptosaurus being 1.5t shits on everything, mid diff!!

[amber thunder]

this is a myth, some of those larger specimens are actually mature- i think the whole 'theyre all juvenile' thing was telephoned from some misunderstanding somewhere

[bright veldt]

Considering the 3 meter individuals are about 100 kg and there’s ones thatre even bigger the 10x bigger thing still holds up

[warped peak]

I never said juvenile. I just said not mature. Even assuming they only grow 10% larger, that's still dwarfing Ornitholestes

[stray wren]

Yeah dryosaurus is pretty large, all things considered. It's like, the size of a pony

[bright veldt]

Lion sized give or take

[onyx sedge]

Ty

[light osprey]

Well if they’re mature then there’s no need to account for further growth

[warped peak]

Yes, however they are not mature as far as we can tell.

[tough parcel]

I mean it could try

[light osprey]

The tenacious Ornitholestes

[white matrix]

With its theropod cunning...

[tough parcel]

Its pack-hunting would enable it to take prey as large as the fearsome Allosaurus...

[white matrix]

The advanced coelurosaur would run circles around the primitive allosaur until it could deliver a suffocating bite...

[lavish frigate]

You’ve all been infected with the reptilian mind virus! Only mammals contain such cunning! Mammals 🔛🔝

[open compass]

I think it's too small (mass) but yeah

[crude latch]

Cephalopod Cunning will take over both factions :

[harsh forge]

The superior speed of the mammals will defeat the slow primitive reptiles

[white matrix]

There are lots of large terrestrial mammals. There are few large terrestrial reptiles. This certainly must mean that mammals are superior.

[sterile trail]

Ah yes, Sarcosuchus holds up terrible T. rex toy

[warped peak]

So, Teratorns

They would probably have voice boxes unlike vultures, right?

[lucid ibex]

Why would you want to have superior intellect when you can Kakapo? 😊 He’s geen

[white matrix]

I think its such a shame people say the jurassic park velociraptors are fake, they mention velociraptors mongolius but theres another version of the velociraptors which do look like they do in the movies

[woeful falcon]

The Velociraptors of Jurassic Park are Deinonychus, and they ultimately don't look much like the ones in the movies for various reasons. Most notably feathers, or lack thereof in film

And then there's actual Velociraptors, even smaller and more different looking.

[flint stream]

in pack ofc but do we have the evidence of them form pack

okay but why not take example of mustelids, they tackled they prey 3x of they bodyweight. so ornitholestes have small chance to taking down dryosaurus

i think general subspecies (D.atlus) is to large and heavy to take it down. i think elderae looks suitable for ornitholestes to hunt

[flint stream]

oh wait second. dont tell me the isle ervima actually used D. elderae

[scenic flame]

tmk no, but there's nothing saying that they definitely didn't

[clever sable]

No, the JP raptors are actually deinonychus and irl the JP raptors would have been covered with feathers like a bird

[timid haven]

I want deinocheirus and achillobator to be as popular as rex.

[tough parcel]

Not gonna happen until they appear in a JP movie + Achillo will just be called Velociraptor

[compact leaf]

mustelids also have a lot of adaptations specifically so that they can do that, and the two animals we’re dealing with are built completely different from both mustelids and their prey

there’s just easier options for the thing to go for, like sure if it’s desperate but it probably wasn’t a habitual thing

[stiff osprey]

I think it'd be a fair comparison, if Dryosaurus was 3 times Ornitholestes's body weight. But it's not, it's like 8 times

[snow python]

Is YOM 429 really this big?

[hallow spear]

McIntosh 2005 states that the big YPM femur fragment is not from the same locale as the type specimen, & therefore has no reason to be referred to Baro

So no, they should be ignored

BYU 2085 or CM 21774 are the largest, but im not too sure if BYU is even lentus

[snow python]

I thought BYU is supersaurus

[lucid ibex]

Hey chat! Give me four or so formations (preferably about dinosaurs)!

[hallow spear]

thats the other BYU

[hallow spear]

Morrison formation, Javkhlant Formation, Phu Kradung Formation and... Shaximiao Formation

[lucid ibex]

Thanks!

[snow python]

Accurate?

[somber nebula]

Oversized by a bit, but other than that it's pretty accurate

[snow python]

Idk about weight though. I heard someone saying sucho was 12,1-12,2m and 5-5,2t

[sudden wind]

It's the good size though.

As it is based on Dan's, it is indeed as long as Tyrannosaurus while weighting approximately 5 tons.

[ocean drum]

Since BYU was brought up y'all think this is still good? https://svpow.com/2019/07/13/table-of-old-and-new-byu-specimen-numbers/

[thorny stream]

Whats wrong with this? Is anything wrong woth it?

[snow python]

Who is the 3rd biggest theropod after all?
First is Rex, then Giga, then who?

[daring forge]

spino maybe

[patent mist]

That depends entirely on how carchs are reconstructed

[snow python]

Some say Carch others Spino and others Saurophaganax

[daring forge]

what about the acro

[patent mist]

Rex is unfortunately the only large theropod with enough material and specimens to get a confidently definable size range

Spinosaurus could be second largest if the large snout fossil belongs to it. Giga could be second if the proportions of the unknown material are just right. It really depends on a lot

[snow python]

Acro was 11,7m and 5.5-5,8t iirc

[daring forge]

oh

[snow python]

Someone told me that rex, giga, carch, spino and saurophaganax are the only theropods 8t or heavier and mapu, ttt and deinocheirus are 7-7.9t

[bright veldt]

Mapu or Carchar

[snow python]

How heavy was duck?

[bright veldt]

7 tons give or take. He’s up there but not insane

Well, I say not insane he’s like top 5 or close to it

[snow python]

Rex, mcraeensis, giga, carch, spino, saurophaganax, mapu, ttt and duck are the only theropods over 7t

Tarbo was 10,5-11m and 6t, same about zhucheng

[sudden wind]

I don't think we have any +5 tons Tarbo specimens

[bright veldt]

The largest definitive tarbosaurus is 5.5 tons. The potentially bigger ones are all maybes that ain’t published. Zucheng is a mess and can’t be reliably scaled really.

Zucheng’s estimates range from smaller than das to bigger than tarbo depending on what and how you scale

[snow python]

Acro, meraxes were 11,7m 5,5t, sucho 12m and 5,2t , torvo and mega 11,4m and 5t, theri 10m and 5t?

[bright veldt]

It does yes

[snow python]

Zhuchengtyrannus

[bright veldt]

Megalo is more 4.5 last I heard, and I don’t think Meraxes is that big either

[snow python]

Meraxes 10,6m and 4,5 lowest 11,6m and 5-5,5t highest

Ii'm not sure is wiehenvanator. Baharia 11-12m 4t? Oxalaia who knows it was destroyed

[bright veldt]

We don’t know wtf baharia IS, let alone reliably gauging its size, and oxalaia is basically lumped into spino until spino’s lumping mess is figured out

Which is probably never because the paleontologists are busy fighting each other over the same questions that don’t really matter rather than doing something productive like that

[sudden wind]

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/netherlands-journal-of-geosciences/article/distribution-and-palaeoecology-of-scleractinian-corals-during-the-maastrichtian-late-cretaceous/3DD1647F5418079E1262318F63441C31

[snow python]

Also do we have any proof that rex preyed on sauropods?

[bright veldt]

We don’t but the south where sauropods lived is lacking in ecological studies compared to the North

Given Tyrannosaurus and Alamo overlapped I wouldn’t be surprised if it did

[outer tusk]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/897994654916689961/1047688368915488828/unknown.png?ex=663f7514&is=663e2394&hm=9f4716fb846ce54e8d6b07c04d85705d1d9ec4a2919d812cc5d4ca9c6add92a3&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=550&height=211

ok

[fossil ingot]

Maybe bit oversize length with.
Biggest Sucho we have is 12.14m long and 5.4 tons.
It was a massive Animal tho

[fossil ingot]

Depends on how Carcha is reconstructed ngl.
Same with Spino
You can get Carcha at 12.32-12.4m long and 8.2-8.4 tons.
Spino at 14.7m you cam get 8.36 tons BUT you can get it bigger or smaller this is more an middle ground but still can be higher.
You can MAYBE say Mapu since you can get like 8.39 tons at 12.7m long but its more reliable putting Mapu at 6.9-7.9 tons(this depends how less robust you put it)

[fossil ingot]

Tarbo is 5.39-5.5 tons at 10.94m long.
So quite big but not 6 tons

[fossil ingot]

I have seen 11.73m long and 5.7 tons Meraxes.
Oxalaia is ugh... Spino I guess

[hallow spear]

Carchar is

[hallow spear]

realistically thats like 90% of the large megatherapod / mega herbivorefossil record

[zinc solstice]

Could Aetosauroides burrow in real life?

[stiff osprey]

it certainly could dig, but could it make a burrow for itself to hide in? debatable

[zinc solstice]

I mean if Thecelosaurus could burrow like some people are saying then Aetosauroides could burrow possibly?

[stiff osprey]

also debatable for Thescelosaurus lol but fair enough, aetosaurs seem more burrow-capable than generic ornithopods like Oryctodromeus

[copper flame]

is their any evidence supporting apatosaurus and brontosaurus neck spikes?

[bright veldt]

No. Probably weren't a thing.

[tropic moth]

Questions
So theres 2 dinosaurs I wanna get some clarification on would anyone be willing to help me figure it out?
I heard there was some controversy around the validity of Dakotaraptor...has that been settled or is it still going?

[tough parcel]

Ongoing due to the discovering paleontologist (DePalma) refusing to let others study the specimen

[tropic moth]

Second has to do with troodontids
I try to keep to reliable sources on dino news and Ive always heard troodons arent a valid taxa but...sometimes even..my sources mention the clade as though it is a valid taxa but then other times they dont? so...whats goin on there?
I've tried figurin it out and I get all turned around lost and burnt out

[bright veldt]

Troodon hasn't held water since 2017. It goes by Stenonychosaurus now.

[tropic moth]

Ah oki
Wait is it just the individual or the whole family?

[tough parcel]

Troodon technically does exist but it will never have solid skeletal material attributed to it as the holotype is a broken tooth

[bright veldt]

That particular genus. The family, troodontids, are still a thing. Titanosaurus and Ceratops aren't valid taxa anymore either but titanosaurs and ceratopsids are still perfectly valid families.

[tough parcel]

Not for long

[sullen cairn]

you could even say a wounded tooth

[tropic moth]

Aaah ok that musta been where my wires were getting crossed
Thanks

[tough parcel]

Guh...

[tropic moth]

Oh one last...silly note
Im a genius >:]
I had an Idea yknow those life sized plushies pokemon does like the big mareep that became a meme...yeah those...but accurate to scale dinos >:D
You could simulate feather fuzz the way old webkins used to (remember those ;n;)
Imagine having an accurate to scale Utah raptor to keep ya cozy in the winter

[tough parcel]

Bro just invented a million dollar business and called it silly

[tropic moth]

Im a genius

Also obviously make it like... scientifically accurate (but made cuter) to current estimates of what dinos looked like

Sadly some dinos would be off the table
Sorry borealopelta youd be bigger than a queen sized bed

Although actually saying that... Hmmmmmmm 🗒️🖋️

Id kill for a accurate to scale utah raptor plush
I used to sleep in a mountain of plushies with an accurate to scale green anaconda plush I miss those days 😔

[velvet burrow]

Is there something about how megaraptorans would've used their claws?

[tough parcel]

Killing

[velvet burrow]

Like, yeah, it is known that they killed with their hands and not their heads, but how? What method did they use?

[tough parcel]

Just grapple prey and bite tbh

[velvet burrow]

Eh, idk, seems like it would've been a lot of struggle if they weren't doing something specific

And i'm intrigued about the likes of Maip and other big later forms that took the responsibility of going after larger game

[tough parcel]

Idk what you mean because having big arms to grapple and subdue prey makes it less likely to squirm out

[woeful falcon]

I wouldn't think so

big cats do it and they have to walk on their forelimbs. with claws made for grabbing!

While megaraptorans tho, they free to use their forelimbs

[velvet burrow]

Ig that makes sense

I was focusing on their arms as their primary killing method, because big cats use their claws just for grabbing and subduing but use their mouth to kill, going straight for the windpipe

[tough parcel]

That's what...I said???

[velvet burrow]

Yes i know, i was giving you the reason

I was imagining something like "what if they only used their claws to do allat and not their mouths?"

[woeful falcon]

For all I know their arms might be more involved, but I think across the animal kingdom carnivores fancy using their mouths in a hunt. And in theropoda multiple lineages evolved in such a way that emphasized the skull

got your tyrannosaurs, abelisaurs, carcharodontosaurs, spinosaurs. they all have some very noticeable adaptions to their skull. Tyrannosaurids and Carcharodontosaurids in particular went the way of giant heads

[velvet burrow]

Yes but megaraptorans went the other way with relatively small heads, slender jaws and massive Freddie Krueger arms

[woeful falcon]

as did Spinosaurids, but that don't mean they weren't using them. After all, Spinosaurids have highly specialized mouths for a reason. I imagine megaraptorans probably used their mouths too just as a lot of carnivores generally do.

[frosty anvil]

^

[woeful falcon]

mouf's been a good tool to help in killing since the days when we were all fish.

[frosty anvil]

Tbh i cant really think of anything SPECIAL megaraptorans would have done thats any different from other theropod dinosaurs. Just run up to somethin and go for the throat. Maybe they wrangled stuff? Idk
(Very bad doodle ik)

[velvet burrow]

Yeah but, spinosaurids did because they had an extremely specialized diet, that megaraptorans presumably wouldn't have had (as in, their prey would've been similar to the rest of large theropods)

[frosty anvil]

I mean, if allo is anything to go off of it probably did somethin really similar

[woeful falcon]

point is, even something as specialized as Spinosaurids use their mouths. what's to stop a megaraptoran from doing what probably all theropod carnivores did

[frosty anvil]

^^

I mean tbh only way i can think of it is allo, just more slender. Sure it didnt have jaws nearly as bulky as allos but

[velvet burrow]

Yeah that's what confuses me

[frosty anvil]

Perhaps it was a small game hunter instead and the claws are more for show

[velvet burrow]

BUT it does make sense

[frosty anvil]

Anyways what if austroraptor hid in the reeds like a bittern lol

[velvet burrow]

Nah i was talking about the bigger megaraptorans

[frosty anvil]

Idk then

[tough parcel]

If they evolve large arms and hands, it is likely to grab prey and hold it down with minimal struggle occuring. I mentioned big cats earlier and that still applies because they predominantly use their well-developed forearms to bring down prey and kill with their mouth. Megaraptorans didn't have astonishing thin skulls, they were fairly normal for theropods

[storm heron]

Don't we have very few Megaraptoran skulls? and among these all are incomplete?

[pliant cedar]

wrestlers fr

[zinc solstice]

Sorry if this is off topic but are there any images of Eutricodonts in the group Volaticotherini that are not Volaticotherium that are gliding in the air that don't have bat wings?

[outer tusk]

All we basically have are fragments of their skulls

[stiff osprey]

Not that i know of, but they all would have looked the same externally anyway

It isn't, I just call every small bipedal non-cerapod ornithischian an ornithopod

it's not like the world's 3 non-ornithopod prionodontia fans are going to stop me

[zinc solstice]

Is Soroavisaurus Valid?

[nocturne merlin]

yes

[tropic moth]

Finally getting around to watching season 2 of prehistoric planet and pair that with this game I have to ask why...arent...dinosaurs depicted more colourful?
I mean i guess safe to assume and indeed in some cases we do actually get at least a glimps into the colours of a dino like with microraptor or Borealopelta but...idk birds and reptiles today are often pretty colourful, although maybe using modern animals in this case isnt exactly a good idea

Yeah thats true
More modern media has been showing dinosaurs with a lot more life and colour

Especially prehistoric planet...my beloved

[tough parcel]

Because dinosaurs are gigantic thus meaning it becomes harder to spread vivid coloration across the body

Example: Modern pachyderms

[crude latch]

I’m no paleo nerd so correct me if I’m wrong, but many colerfull pigments can be more expensive to make in large quantities across such a biiig body

Ye right above me ^

[tropic moth]

Thats true
Its not to say t rexes should be sparkle dogs just...idk surely smaller ones would be more colorful right?

[tough parcel]

• large dinosaurs seemed to prefer brute strength over fancy colors

[tropic moth]

Like I absolutely dont see large dinos being colourful but I could see mid to small sized ones having more color

[tough parcel]

Caihong and Microraptor were fairly colorful iirc, but we don't have enough to say what's what

Also consider all birds are very "drab", the only ones that get colorful are those in jungles where there's a lot of food + really dense cover

[tropic moth]

Eh
Plenty of colorful birds up north too

[tough parcel]

Such as?

[tropic moth]

Bluejays and cardinals are the 2 easiest example we also have some humming birds
Robins can have some bright red chests
Warblers
Finches
We also have some redwinged blackbirds where I live although I live pretty south of canada
I will say the cover of trees regardless seems to be a factor in that

We dont really have any warm jungles but theres lot of trees and mountains

[sullen cairn]

we should ping lancian it'd be funny

[tough parcel]

These are all significantly smaller than the small non-avian theropods + they still live in a place fairly consistent with food

[tropic moth]

Like I said I dont see giants being colourful

[tough parcel]

I was not addressing giants, I am addressing Microraptor sized animals

[tropic moth]

I barely even see the mid sized ones being more colorful than a robbin

But I could see them in general being more colorful

[tough parcel]

Also consider these are birds that can fly, they don't need significant camouflage from terrestrial predators

[tropic moth]

But as said we really dont have anything o suggest as such
Pigments arent exactly easy to preserve

So yeah maybe they were just drab :l

[tough parcel]

As I mentioned, Caihong, Microraptor, Anchiornis, etc

Huh

[tropic moth]

Snakes tend to be very colorful as well even as they get really large

[tough parcel]

Not really? Constrictors are very dull

[tropic moth]

Actually...kinda sorta we have a snake up here whos VERY colourful in the sense that its a bright saturated colour

"the blue racer" its... endangered (if you guessed cause humans youd be right) with only 200 left in the wild

Theyre BRIGHT blue speedy constrictor snakes

[tough parcel]

Size?

[tropic moth]

Small but still

[crude latch]

And also the fact that large colorful amounts of pigment can be pretty expensive to produce. Which is why I see most large dinosaurs using these colorful pigments on parts that really stand out. (Hornlets, crest, small amounts on sails maybe , arms, etc)

[tropic moth]

Googling it 90-150ish cm on average

[tough parcel]

Then my statement stands

[tropic moth]

Heres what they look like btw fascinating little creatures I was surprised I never saw one

[sullen cairn]

don't you mean your statement slithers

[tough parcel]

Nuh uh

[scarlet moon]

Lol

[tropic moth]

Anyhow my curiosity has been settled thank you
This was also just a fun discussion

[zinc solstice]

This is very dumb but could Aetosauroides curl up into a ball and roll into predators?

[tropic moth]

Also go check out these little snakes theyre fun
Apparently they're one of the fastest snakes too

12-16 km per hour I dont know how that fairs relative to other snakes but yeah

[crude latch]

Man I saw Karson coming in here and thought he was gonna show of his Spino, which only has the colorful pigmentation on its sail.

[sudden wind]

I ain't calling them dull

[tough parcel]

Dull is counted as anything other than green, brown, or something within these ranges

[tropic moth]

Eh
Id say depending on how green I wouldn't call it dull

[stiff osprey]

Another thing that wasn't addressed here is that the pigments that make bird feathers bright evolved quite recently, and they probably weren't present in things like dromaeosaurids. Of course dinosaurs could have evolved their own unique pigments, but the conservative option would be to not make their feathers super bright even if they're small

[tough parcel]

Why are we splitting hairs in this convo?? 😭

[tropic moth]

Idk :/

Anyhow I had fun thanks for the edjucation
I always love learning <:D

[stiff osprey]

The most likely place you'd find bright colors would be on the scales/bare skin of a small, herbivorous or omnivorous species

[sudden wind]

Honestly I'd just go with what Lancian does usually, though I think that complex patterns can still be a thing in large animals. Modern megafauna isn't necessarily the best of all examples but yet some biological limits, related to body size, are still applied such as how much they can gather/produce said pigments.

[stiff osprey]

I'm not convinced of the large size = no complex pattern 'rule' either

[sudden wind]

There is also another point is that some scales can also reflect lightwaves and so produce quite interesting coloration.

[stiff osprey]

Dull colors in highly contrasting patterns is based

[sullen cairn]

i wonder if there's any causation/correlation between every animal losing both their aerial phase and somewhat complex patterning the second they exceed 2999kg

[tropic moth]

I find it fascinating when animals evolve to fill niches they normally wouldnt

Carnivores becoming herbivores or big animals becoming small
Or the other way around

I am rather curious what lead to the big Dromeosaurids in a group that's normally around the size of dogs or smaller

[stiff estuary]

Also isn't it true that dinosaurs would've probably had much better colour vision then most mammals today? Making it more likely that they would use bright colours for signalling and species identification? 🤔

[zinc solstice]

Were anchiornithids basal troodontids like some recent phylogenys are suggesting? Also why does Fujianvenator look kind of troodontid-ish in a way?

[stiff osprey]

the correlation is that the number of animals that fit this description today is 3 and they're all sister taxa

[velvet burrow]

Bright colors OR the dullest and most subtle colors possible, if that's the case

[nocturne merlin]

spines would probably snap

[nocturne merlin]

fuji isnt that distantly related to troodontids,

[velvet burrow]

Now uh, on the topic of the previous and kinda dead conversation of bright colors

[velvet burrow]

If this is true, and dinosaurs in general had better color vision than the blind af modern mammals, wouldn't there actually be heavier and more restrictive selective pressures on their coloration? Especially for ambush predators

Also uh, a question, if the latter is true, how realistic would be to depict theropods with extremely bright crests and other display structures? Because it came to me the idea that maybe these structures weren't really that bright, maybe just having a structure (crest, feathers, etc) was enough for social signaling

[tough parcel]

First point is interesting and makes sense to me

Second point is kinda flip-floppy because if it's restricted to a samll area (crests), it might not be horribly detrimental

[stiff osprey]

Herbivores do fine nowadays with bright colors (particularly if only the males have them, or only during the breeding season), but yes ambush predators might have been even more restricted than they are today, given their prey could see them more easily

[warped peak]

Teratorns would likely have had Syrinxes still, unlike modern vultures, right?

[velvet burrow]

Also, i don't know how possible it is but i haven't seen people talking about UV colors

[stiff osprey]

Dinosaurs certainly saw them, and likely used them for display

Kinda hard to talk about them when we humans can't see them though

[woeful falcon]

yeah well I can see them.

[junior dawn]

if you stare at the sun for long enough you gain the ability to se UV color

[woeful falcon]

yeah I got it during the eclipse last month

[warped peak]

They're not overly close to them genetically AFAIK

Actually I suppose a large part of the question is why do NW vultures lack a syrinx

Maybe? But just entirely losing your voice organ is a pretty huge thing

[warped peak]

Probably, I just have yet to see much useful documentation into it

They are. They were competent Scavengers, but far more predatory than a vulture or condor

[bright veldt]

Them being primarily predators is supported by their bill structure yes. It doesn’t mean they didn’t scavenge, eagles readily scavenge themselves, but them being just another vulture clade isn’t apt.

[warped peak]

I'm designing mine somewhere between Secretary Birds, Caracaras, and Condors

[bright veldt]

Modern reconstructions to basically had them caracara esc just more robust

[warped peak]

The biggest difference is the fact they're so huge they could barely take off

I do find it interesting how the largest Teratorns are similar in function to the largest pterosaurs, terrestrial predators specialized for long distance soaring

[warped peak]

In all seriousness, those wings would give them some pretty solid control on the ground, wouldn't it?

A flap here or there for extra mobility, or to smack prey real hard (like a Goose but not)

[stiff osprey]

Terrestrial stalking is pretty much the only hunting style that works regardless of how big a flying animal is, catching your prey from the air or in trees becomes increasingly difficult the bigger you are

[warped peak]

Fair point. But scavenging is still an effective lifestyle, especially at larger sizes

[stiff osprey]

I do think scavenging was a pretty major part of teratorns' diets. I can't really see them being agile or fast enough to reliably chase down terrestrial prey all the time

[warped peak]

Especially with the likes of larger Phorusrhacids in the same environment

I'd like to see a study to test how much grip strength they had at some point

[tough parcel]

The average size (that we can discern rn) being ~2 tons lighter than the average rex + we have a lot of Edmonto skeletons, but only a handful of "mega-Edmontos"

[hushed fossil]

What? I thought Edmontosaurus suplexed Rexes for fun!

Ive been living a lie 😔

[tulip dove]

Nah, Edmonto had laser eyes to defeat any Tyrannosaurus it came across

[tough parcel]

Edmontosaurus when T. rex

You can decide what that means

[hushed fossil]

It means it's pummeling that dumb biped like a champ 💪

[tulip dove]

But Gualicho, what if bull Edmonto in musth with short person syndrome, surely it would win

The cunning Edmontosaurus...

[hushed fossil]

Strong and inteligent, not like dumb Rex

[outer tusk]

Is bro a troll

[hushed fossil]

It's not like its descendants survived the extinction or something 🤥

[tough parcel]

Y'all, it's legit an obvious joke exactly like the ones we pull regularly

I mean Idc, I find it funny

No need to get your buns in a bunch

That doesn't mean anything

[outer tusk]

Charonosaurus Americanis

[hushed fossil]

Yeah, grow some meat on your bones dude

[nocturne merlin]

give me one thing that is differant between charono and para pysically

[tough parcel]

Considering ceratopsians are essentially absent from Asia despite being quite prolific in NA

[outer tusk]

One is know from more than one species

[tough parcel]

Oh my god, no-one cares about specifics, it is very clear what I mean

[hushed fossil]

Ironic how Charono survived till the KPG but Para is more popular

[nocturne merlin]

sinoceratops 🤓

[tough parcel]

I said essentially, not absent completely

[hushed fossil]

May have to do with a certain franchise...

Yeah

[tough parcel]

One could argue the same for Spino's popularity pre-2014

[hushed fossil]

But things like Troodon were quite popular, so its strange

[velvet burrow]

North American fauna 🤢

[sullen cairn]

troodon only got popular because it swallowed stenonychosaurus for a couple decades

[tough parcel]

Also speaking on this: I don't think people actually comprehend how amazing the JP3 Spino was at the time considering a few years before that, it was still "Allosaurus with a sail" (maybe even during production)

[nocturne merlin]

wait no is charono actually valid? i cant find a reason to why its separate from para

[tough parcel]

Which I did verify as I found a ~1990 poster of Spino being sailed Allosaurus

Unfortunately, it was a DA post and I have 0 hope of finding it again lmao

[velvet burrow]

Gotta love Mei

Yes, cute af guys

[light osprey]

Parasaurolophini isn’t that stable

[outer tusk]

THE LOST WORLD JURASSIC PARK

[tough parcel]

Trug, didn't think of that lmao

[outer tusk]

Offtopic but this figure goes for like 170$

[hushed fossil]

I wonder how this could be so expensive

[velvet burrow]

Question, what's the current consensus or hypothesis on the function of the tail whip of diplodocoids?

[tough parcel]

Defense and possibly communication

[velvet burrow]

The whip bit of the tail? Wouldn't it snap?

[tough parcel]

If they swung it at max power, yes it would atomize itself

But animals can regulate their bodies so it's likely they would stop before it hit such speeds

No, it's from a diplodocid fossil (Maybe Kaatedocus) that has a row of spines on it

[outer tusk]

@white matrix you seen this one

[hushed fossil]

Good convo people

Good night

[tough parcel]

I believe so

[outer tusk]

Randomdino did a diagram of it

[tough parcel]

Ablooga

[velvet burrow]

Now uh, another question, is there a reason why lacrimal crests (or similar structures) are so common and similar in large theropods?
Like, yeah, they wanted ladies, but why such similar structures? Is it possible that there was a practical purpose for them besides display?

Like, idk, just as an example, maybe some could be analogous to modern day raptor's brow ridges? Something like that

[frosty anvil]

Boooo

I love my North American fauna, genuinely my favorite in this world

[stiff osprey]

Extinct NA fauna is based

Modern... not so much
But hey, still beats Europe!

[velvet burrow]

Nah, i mean yeah, it would be if it wasn't so overrepresented

So, north american extinct fauna 🤢

[compact leaf]

hey we’ve still got alligators and snapping turtles, that counts for something

[cloud dagger]

South american and asian extinct fauna is the best

[light osprey]

Clearly you’ve not seen (insert continent)‘s extinct fauna. Way more interesting than (other continent)

[stiff osprey]

All continents have equally based extinct fauna. Except Antarctica, who has like 5 animals

[bright veldt]

"How many penguins do you want?"

[halcyon cobalt]

what about the 20 ton bipedal ankylosaurs that we are going to discover next year?

[velvet burrow]

Cringe, yes, but such statements should be made since north american paleofauna is so overrepresented, even PhP has an entire episode called "North America"

[warped peak]

Don't ask why I just have this as a jpeg

[crude latch]

Why do you have this as a jpeg

[velvet burrow]

Average Gondwana thyreophoran

[tropic moth]

Im back with more question

What are some good paleo channels yall would recommend im subscribed to a few that I believe are reputable but Im always looking to expand on that

I think the biggest one I can name is Ben G thomas

Alternatively what are some other great sources on paleo news in general?

[dawn void]

i know some but they are in spanish

channels*

[zinc solstice]

Could Incisivosaurus Climb trees? If not were there any oviraptorisaurians that could ?

[queen quiver]

whats the most preserved trodon fossil??

[native kindle]

my mama says i have a good speaking voice so i would be a good news delivery source on deenosurs

[zinc solstice]

Were Megaraptorans Neovenatorans or tyrannosauroids?

[silk radish]

Charcharodontosaurus and it's relatives are so underrated

[bright veldt]

Considering how much attention they get when they’re all physically identical I disagree lol

[lavish frigate]

Tyrannosauroids for both scientific and aesthetic reasons

Side note. Megaraptors that ain’t illustrated as Tyrannosauroids are ugly

[warped peak]

Carcharodontosaurs don't get appreciated enough for the fact that the entire damn family reached sizes comparable to Tyrannosaurus

They're all identical and they're all huge except for same basal members

[velvet burrow]

Also don't get appreciated because some of them are only mentioned for comparisons with Tyrannosaurus

[outer tusk]

not true!

[snow python]

Besided PNSO who has the most accurate dinosaurs?

[outer tusk]

nothings