paleontology

[pliant cedar]

that still means that a single hit from the sauropod could kill a carno, it doesnt remove the weight advantage

[near sleet]

Wait stego quick question do you think hadrosaurs are just fooder?

[light osprey]

The Hell Creek bison even

[heady thunder]

Eh, its kinda like a lion vs zebra imo

[hallow spear]

no lmao, nor did i mention it. I was just pointing out that edmont and rex each at the largest size, edmonto is slower

[scenic flame]

Titanomachia wouldn't be able to leverage it's weight advantage very well unless it had a neck built like apato saurus or substantial enough osteoderms imo, sauropods tmk primarily leverage their wieght through trampling, kicking and tail swings

[pliant cedar]

no, anyone who thinks that is stupid

[near sleet]

Okay thank god.

[pliant cedar]

a sauropod that weighed double the weight of its predator would still be able to defend itself

[hallow spear]

no one said it cant

[near sleet]

CutaCuts to jp fans.

[light osprey]

The mighty lesser kudu tramples the lion

[scenic flame]

I hypothesise Titanomachia lacks the nessisary height or speed to really leverage its potential weight advantage

[hallow spear]

I agree with this, IF salta is a close relative of it (and in general it seems unlikely that its getting large)

[heady thunder]

I think the smallest rex can just, pick up half of those lel

[hallow spear]

Someone should make a comparison of the salta edit i did, and Carno
From what ive seen Titanomachia has pretty much similar limb proportions so it should be fine to use

[scenic flame]

If it had osteoderms anything like alamosaurus it's wieght would help it gore Carnotaurus by ahifting it's weight into it if attacked from the rear, or wherever its osteoderms may be, if it had them

[light osprey]

Is Titanomachya 6 or is it 7 metres

[pliant cedar]

considering this it probably had other behaviours or features that allowed it to defend itself

[scenic flame]

This isn't the salta edit stego did, but it does show saltasaurus scalednto titanomachia's size next to carnotaurus

[hallow spear]

further proves what ive been saying 💀

[pliant cedar]

oh damn i didnt realise it was that small
yeah gg

[scenic flame]

Exactly, very small sauropod

[halcyon cobalt]

the answer is right here smh

[hallow spear]

That salta is heavily oversized like HEAVILY.. Wiki is not good reference for size or weight

[near sleet]

Its as small as the island dwarfs.

[pliant cedar]

like magyro?

[scenic flame]

I know TI magy is a meme but osteoderms and or toxin sequestering is not unreasonable imo

[heady thunder]

Why was salta so small, kinda weird considering with what it lived with

[hallow spear]

Its slow, And why the hell does allo fit into this
@scenic flame Also, i headcanon young stegosaurs(us) being toxic due to the cycad intake (and cycad seeds)

[near sleet]

Name a toxic dinosaur.

[halcyon cobalt]

reference to TI magy

[scenic flame]

It's probably impossible to tell if an animal was poisonous or not from fossils

[hallow spear]

this is not possible to determine the entire purpose of it is because its impossible to know lmao? its just based on diet which IS possible

[near sleet]

Okay.

[halcyon cobalt]

hooded pitohui

[pliant cedar]

we could find evidence of poison if we looked at chemical residue
but the chances of it lasting that long would be slim

[hallow spear]

no because that does not exist for 66my +

[scenic flame]

Not all substances leave such traces

[light osprey]

It didn’t really live with anything. Not that we have found at least

[near sleet]

Haha veru funny.

[halcyon cobalt]

ngl it would be cool if we found out some smaller sauropods were poisonous because it would also explain a lot

[scenic flame]

https://youtu.be/Zj6O8WJ3qtE?si=TDt-96hwRQDL_Mre

[pliant cedar]

they may have lived in large herds, or had strong smelling must

[hallow spear]

Iirc Saltasaurus was found in a bonebed with many individuals so, it was a herd animal i think

[halcyon cobalt]

the gigasaur sparing the limaysaurus because stinky…

[near sleet]

Ah yes my favorite dinosaur drinker.

[pliant cedar]

so their defence was probably just numbers, if there are lots of u the chances of an individual getting hunted is lower

[scenic flame]

That or osteoderms, or poison, or something else

[outer tusk]

Sorry guys what did I miss

[sweet field]

ye

[light oxide]

I do also wanna point out that abelisaurs, throughout their evolution, have evolved with sauropods as their preferred food sources.

So while Carnotaurus was much lighter, it still had a pitbull-like bite where it wouldn't let go of a sauropod's neck, allowing it to take down sauropods (within reason, of course). Now, there are obviously other abelisaurs that were better at this, but with the size difference between Carnotaurus and Saltasaurus, Carnotaurus most definitely wouldn't pass up preying on them.

[outer tusk]

More simply there's no reason to think carnotaurus wouldn't hunt it's native sauropod

I know this is a bit stylize but am wondering could baryoynx position itself like this

[crude latch]

Blud is mischievous

[sullen cairn]

type is like 7m, "lametasaurus" (which was referred to raja) is like 7.5-8m depending on which element you scale

[nocturne merlin]

no chance, first gremlin now this??? 😭

[native kindle]

https://x.com/dean_r_lomax/status/1780658220203196443?s=46
so, nerds. how huge is huge this time around

Dr Dean Lomax (@Dean_R_Lomax) on X

Please welcome Ichthyotitan severnensis, a gigantic ichthyosaur from the latest Triassic of the UK!

The key - holotype - specimen was found in 2020 by fossil-hunting father-daughter duo Justin and Ruby Reynolds (Ruby was then 11!), who are co-authors.
https://t.co/kCQ89UyE8C

Twitter · Apr 17, 2024, 6:02 PM

[compact leaf]

drinker is a bone wars taxa, it got sank into nanosaurus a while back

[pulsar galleon]

It’s not even full grown btw, allegedly it could’ve had a good chunk left to grow.

[native kindle]

taking that with a hefty grain of salt

[keen forum]

it's tylo atm, mosa might be around 12.2-12.5m and 9.9-10.4tons while iirc tylo is about 14-15m and weighs a lil bit heavier at about 11-12tons but theres some that put it around 15tons at 15m but i'm not use if the the width is correct

[pulsar galleon]

Yeah. It’s not mature but we’re unsure how much growing it had left to do.

[bright veldt]

Is 15m tylo based on anything aside from the quadrate?

[stiff estuary]

Wow a 25m Icthyosaur is crazy. I guess next largest would be Shastasaurus?

[nocturne merlin]

itd be shoni no?

[stiff estuary]

Pretty sure Shoni was shorter, though maybe in weight?

[wary junco]

Shasta is pretty consistently smaller than Shonisaurus at this point

[bright veldt]

It depends on whether you put S. sikkanesis into Shasta or shoni.

Shonisaurus popularis is 15 meters, Shastasaurus pacificus is 7-8 meters. S. sikanesis is about 16-18 meters. I’ve personally seen it put into Shasta more nowadays.

[clever sable]

How big is it in it's current size

[light osprey]

Oh that’s quite a short tylosaurine tail

[pulsar galleon]

I think the estimated size was 25m, but i'm not sure if this is for the still maturing or adult specimen. The aust specimen would be >30m

[wary junco]

the issue with that is that in most recent phylogenies (for example Bindellini et al. 2021, this paper Lomax et al. 2024) S. sikanniensis clades with Shonisaurus and not Shastasaurus

[clever sable]

That's pretty big, longer than a fin whale iirc

[pulsar galleon]

just make it its own genus, problem solved fr fr

[wary junco]

yeah honestly ahaha, but yeah for the material that can be confidently assigned to Shastasaurus and Shonisaurus, Shastasaurus is consistently smaller

[keen forum]

it's based on Fadeno's tail which shorterns the tail a bit

[pulsar galleon]

yeah.

There's an almost comedic amount of giant fragmentary ichthyosaurs

[outer tusk]

I wonder why

[pulsar galleon]

im updating my doc on hector's ichthyosaur as we speak lmao. Actually a good amount of info on it, just really hard to find, sadly.

potentially the king of fragmentary ichthyosaurs, or like shastasaurus sikanniensis size.

[sweet plover]

Carnotaurus is so slay she’s my favorite dinosaur fr

[keen forum]

@light osprey this lad

https://twitter.com/FabioAleRomero/status/1592518655350374401?t=GXGqxPytUSL7aK4180WwdQ&s=19
tho i do like the old tylo tail more

Fabio Alejandro (@FabioAleRomero) on X

Tylosaurus proriger, one reconstruction I made after making its skeletal recon, and that I intended to present formally like with other animals but I considered need futher rework, so this is pretty much a version 1.0

Twitter · Nov 15, 2022, 2:03 PM

[light osprey]

Curious how it holds up. Personally I do prefer a stubbier tail

[pliant cedar]

it seems all the big theropod groups in south america liked eating sauropods. probably cause they were the dominant group there

unlike all the northern continents where ornithiscians had replaced all the smaller sauropods. i feel like it is down to superior mobility at their size, and more specialised teeth

[tacit pine]

i think of it as grizzly and moose

[heady thunder]

But rex is bigger, how is it a grizzly vs moose

[outer tusk]

there not comparable at all

[sullen cairn]

if you ask me zebra and lion is already being very generous considering that lions aren't heavier and taller than zebras

[jagged trellis]

( isn't the average zebra also bigger than the average lion lmao) or we going on the reverse logic

[outer tusk]

why would be usng reverse logic?

[tacit pine]

sometimes ed can grow to sizes bigger than rex i thought?

[jagged trellis]

good question, mostly because dunno what direction the comparison is trying to go

[sullen cairn]

exceptional specimens can but by and large edmontosaurus is the smaller animal

[outer tusk]

^^^

[tacit pine]

ah

[heady thunder]

Lion vs, a sheep?

[outer tusk]

Okay fine this is Scotty but regardless holotype rex would still be larger

[sullen cairn]

that's also a very small edmonto

[outer tusk]

Yeah ( plz delete this slowmode )

[sullen cairn]

anyways average rex vs edmonto is probably something vaguely around the ratio between like a lion and a hartebeest or something like that

although there's obviously the problem of applying 1:1 comparisons with mammals when you're working with multiton bipedal theropods and other multiton hadrosaurs

this slowmo sucks

[stiff osprey]

I think lion vs zebra is a fair comparison because lions make up for their smaller size by the power of cat

[tacit pine]

Is the tylo in the image 15 tons?

[sullen cairn]

but what about equine cunning?

[stiff osprey]

15t bull edmontosaurus in musth when the tyrannosaurus leaps several times its own body height onto its neck

[sullen cairn]

or maybe more appropriately equine being-general-arses

15t bull edmontosaurus roundhouse kick vs 12t 10m-vertical-jumping sue with soft tissue

[stiff osprey]

this actually happened at a smaller scale in march of the dinosaurs

[compact leaf]

the altruistic alamosaurus interfering with a hunt:

I like to think about sauropods interfering with hunts not on purpose, they just happen to move into the way and they’re so fat they ruin it

[stiff osprey]

who said it was physiologically impossible to grow 24 meters long

[sullen cairn]

the only reasonable conclusion here is that the motd albertosaurus was kaiju-sized and was leaping the height of literal skyscrapers

[pulsar galleon]

24m long megalodon clam when

[light osprey]

The hadro-cunning….

[sullen cairn]

in order to maximize suffering and general discontent in this channel welcome early adult size class individuals to the strobelight chart

[light oxide]

It's the SPECTRUM

[hallow spear]

i thoguht i was tripping

[keen forum]

around there yes

[tacit pine]

alr

[outer tusk]

okay so yeah 15 tonnes might be possible

[hallow spear]

is possible buy maybe not as probable

[sharp canyon]

The way this chart is designed it looks like the first dino is rapidly approaching the for scale woman while increasing in size to turn her into a red stain on the ground

[prime burrow]

@bright veldt

[bright veldt]

They're going to do one of two things.

They're either going to try and somehow say that they matched the tooth with this new material (All troodon teeth look the same) and/or justify the holotype being a tooth. Or, they're going to make this new material the neotype. Both of which, are dumb af.

[sullen cairn]

since everybody's freaking out about "omg muh hecking troodon is back" because of an in-prep paper where's the freaking out over the cryptic laramidian ziphodont tyrannosaur lineage surviving to the kpg

[bright veldt]

I'd love to be surprised but I highly doubt the paper will be convincing.

[outer tusk]

so why are they bringing back troodon all of a sudden

[prime burrow]

I dunno I just saw it and thought it was neat

[bright veldt]

It's unironically popularity bias, or at least that's a decent part of it.

[outer tusk]

also could it be considered scummy at least for Thomas as it could be misleading people into assuming this animal is coming back into the picture ad a valid genus

[bright veldt]

The other part is that I wouldn't be surprised by is if people, yknow, want to keep things simple. Simplying a taxa for simplicity sake totally hasn't totally derailed a popular animal into pure mayhem in terms of what's true or not about it (Spinosaurus).

[outer tusk]

also like idk if this is already answered but how can we know this isn't real or this doesn't showcase animal like trodon is coming back

[bright veldt]

I think it's less that we know and more us weighing the current information against people just taking a paleontologist's word at face value. A paper is only as good as its argument. Their word isn't gospel.

[heady thunder]

Rex foooder 🤪

[outer tusk]

damn this is real

[sullen cairn]

i'd say its more of the internet is bad at interpreting anything
holtz is very respectable and professional paleontologist and i doubt he was trying to be misleading here

[outer tusk]

oh yeah mb just forgot the internet and for a moment confused him with the nanotyrannus guy

[little mauve]

Got any stuff for the latter? Sounds cool

[sullen cairn]

buncha titles became public for paper's dalman's working on
most damning of which being that it seems like he's following through with naashoibito having a non-tyrannosaurus taxon under "bistahieversorini" which may or may not be largely based on teeth/tooth marks

most of this stuff (namely the cryptic ziphodont taxa) have been at least mentioned in passing in prior papers but i'm surprised he's following through with seemingly all of it

[little mauve]

Tackling some NJ material as well, nice

[sullen cairn]

plus some ceratopsid/daspletosaurini stuff which could be neat

[native kindle]

wretched day

[little mauve]

Looking forward to these, thanks. That potentially hidden diversity is always interesting

[sullen cairn]

I wonder if the raritan tyrannosauroid is this because it's pretty interesting https://bioone.org/journals/bulletin-of-the-peabody-museum-of-natural-history/volume-59/issue-1/014.058.0210/A-Tyrannosauroid-from-the-Lower-Cenomanian-of-New-Jersey-and/10.3374/014.058.0210.short

cenomanian NA tyrannosauroid slightly smaller than appalachiosaurus

[little mauve]

If it's the one mentioned in Brownstein 2018 it was described very briefly as appalachiosaurus-like material

[scenic flame]

animorph

[halcyon cobalt]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vdiPfT-lqNc thoughts?

super fragmentary and we don’t even know what it is

[bright veldt]

Vividen not overhyping a single fragmenty mcfunklebone as the biggest thing ever that has no scientific relevance and will get parroting by hundreds of coping children wanting the biggest killer ever challenge: impossible

[halcyon cobalt]

20 ton dinosaur cool!!!!😁

[lavish frigate]

Vividen said it’s vividening time and vividen’d all over the place I see?

[outer tusk]

Vividen trying to not make a bad filler video about a extremely fragmentary or fake animal in paleontology :

[halcyon cobalt]

waiting for the Triassic kraken episode

[outer tusk]

Ngl I don't hate Vividen but his following make it seems like he's aware of what he's doing and a lot of his fan or people who watch him will take this at face value and not do their own research will be misinform about what actual paleontology is about or what we actually can infer from materials that are decent enough to be measured

[bright veldt]

It's genuingly obnoxious. He's not contributing to anything by doing this. He's just creating a headache for others and borderline misinforming people.

[warped peak]

"Borderline" nah this is very definitive

[bright veldt]

I mean he doesn't say stuff that's outright wrong. It's just generally misleading and he knows it.

[outer tusk]

Which sucks because besides like YDRW is like the one of the few informal Paleo related YouTube channels

[vocal breach]

YDAW is peak

[lavish frigate]

Wdym by “informal”?

[outer tusk]

informational?

[lavish frigate]

Your message says informal lol

Sorry

[outer tusk]

okay whatever the point stil stands that aside from YDRW and maybe a few others, Vividen isn't reliable like at all

[woeful falcon]

One might even say vividen is informal!

[clever sable]

Vividen is popular with awesomebros and children basically

[outer tusk]

Yes

[uneven path]

YDRW is the best dinosaur youtube to listen to while playing PoT

[cold sky]

dinosaur

[tough parcel]

True!

[lavish frigate]

Vividen seems like one of the people who thought the JWD Giga was a good villain when it just kinda stole a deer from an old malnourished tyrannosaurus and roared a few times

[river sentinel]

In my opinion the best villan from the JP-JW series gotta be spino lol

[tough parcel]

^ Real

[lavish frigate]

It’s kinda weird to call them villains since they are usually just doing predation behaviors or….yk….if someone hit me in the spine with a PLANE I’d be a bit mad as well…

[river sentinel]

Yeah i guess the call them villans because thats how they are depicted in the movies except for indoraptor....she was a different case....

[lavish frigate]

Indoraptor was actually a male. They say he in the movie

But ya it knew what it was doing….

[river sentinel]

I actually typed he first and then i thought about jurassic park/world logic and how everything was a girl just an honest mistake

Was Indrptr the only male in the movie series?

[outer tusk]

me when buck, bull, male jp3 raptor, male tlw jp raptors, junior, & spinosaurus

[river sentinel]

Right omg i just wasnt thinking lol

[outer tusk]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/743858043334164490/1230325733876826223/IMG_8154.jpeg?ex=6632e921&is=66207421&hm=d18be4efb5bca27774bf6d453bf849b672a5ab8fb500116dc59975ad6f8051bd&

[lavish frigate]

Oh fun fact regarding that. Every movie after the original actually has male dinosaurs, since they were freely breeding in the wild there were male specimens born (and I believe a few males were bred on Sorna like the buck Rex’s and such)

And technically the dinosaurs in JP1 change their sex to male so all the movies have males lol

[river sentinel]

thanks for the info!

[tacit pine]

Facts tho

[tacit pine]

nvm i read it wrong.

[lavish frigate]

[elfin dragon]

its spino all over again......

[pulsar galleon]

Tbf he did put a disclaimer in it but kinda odd to make a video.

[tough parcel]

And you said he couldn't make a video on Hector's or whatever ichthyosaur we had been discussing

[pulsar galleon]

tbf that actually has a decent amount of information on it and has had a lot of discussion about it. I have that whole pdf on it

[tough parcel]

Society

[pulsar galleon]

I updated it today after like a month

[outer tusk]

honestly I geniuely don't understood the apply of these fragmentary large ichthyosaurs

[pulsar galleon]

big sea blimp funny

[outer tusk]

humor these days....

[flint stream]

oddest dinosaur name after suskityrannus

[pulsar galleon]

They’re just silly looking animals, shonisaurus in particular looks so weird

[flint stream]

is there any large ictyosaurid beside of shoni ?

[outer tusk]

shoni & shastasaurus are the actually valid and named ones

[pulsar galleon]

With just named taxa

Shastasaurus, Cymbospondylus, Temnodontosaurus, Himalayasaurus, Ichthyotitan, and possibly Guizhouichthyosaurus

[outer tusk]

I leave lchthyotitan open to debate so yeah

[flint stream]

temnodonto ?

[flint stream]

i heard in some paleo community said that ichthyotitan still up in debate for some moment.

[pulsar galleon]

Cymbospondylus is rather massive as well

Guizhou is on the list because of an alleged 25m specimen. Unfortunately the authors of the paper it was just offhandedly mentioned in have refused to elaborate (kind of based lmao).

[outer tusk]

it's tiny at 10m compared to shoni 25t 15m & shasta 18m 40t

[flint stream]

quite moderent size for temnodonto actually. not big compare its triassic cousin. still predator ik that

[pulsar galleon]

Tbf Ichthyotitan is objectively a very large ichthyosaur. It counts, even if you were to consider it just Shastasauridae indet.

[outer tusk]

yeah because the larger esimate are just not good like at all and temno being just fragmentary

[pulsar galleon]

Temno isn’t fragmentary though, didn’t they dig up that nearly complete specimen pretty recently? The rutland sea dragon iirc.

[tough parcel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elph_(therapsid)

[outer tusk]

if it did I would've just mentioned that

[pulsar galleon]

What

[flint stream]

beside of icthyosaurid. why all dinosaur names nowadays are concernly weird and confusing like 🤔 jakapile, merexes, dreagnougthus is cool name as far i can se but gremlin ? fr naming dinosaurus gremlin

what mind blowing everybody

[pulsar galleon]

I mean, we also named things Eustreptospondylus in the past, that’s a pretty weird and confusing name

[outer tusk]

It's Meraxes* not Merexes

Also love how people think modern dinosaur names are weird like dinosaur names aren't weird in general ☠️ like where the f is the consistency

[pulsar galleon]

Yeah temnodontosaurus isn’t fragmentary I wouldn’t say.

[flint stream]

some dinosaur name in past aren't crazy afteral

[pulsar galleon]

Some modern ones aren’t weird either, I don’t get the argument

[flint stream]

ye. i can agree with you

[pulsar galleon]

like maraapunisaurus just means “huge bodied lizard”, a fitting name for a large sauropod

Compare that to its original name, Amphicoelias, which means double hollow. That’s kind of…. Odd…

[outer tusk]

Lord of eater is one

[pulsar galleon]

lord of eater or lord of lizard eaters (Saurophaganax maximus)

[sullen cairn]

tbf amphicoelias is named after what is essentially its diagnosis

[pulsar galleon]

Yeah but still it’s a goofy name.

[plain stirrup]

would it be accurate for a hell creek map where the floor for the terrestrials are right next to the west interior seaway

[serene moat]

Tf Is that

Is that a extinct amphibian or smth?

[candid tiger]

What happened to my poll?

[serene moat]

It got removed I think, idk why tho was curious to see what people would choose

[marsh tapir]

Hello there. At the current moment we're not allowing the creation of pools in this server.

[candid tiger]

Why?

[halcyon cobalt]

icthyosaur

[marsh tapir]

Due to the moderation efforts required to keep track of these if allowed in all channels, as well as preventing spam and off topic discussions. There was nothing inherently wrong with your pool, but it's our current stance for the entirety of the server. Thank you for your understanding.

[candid tiger]

Ok

[pulsar galleon]

Large macroraptorial ichthyosaur from the early Jurassic

[static relic]

Does anyone know which Rex specimen alder on games based their Rex off of?

[ocean drum]

Iirc stan because of the head-dip and it not being as much of a chonker as most common “accurate depictions” due to stan having a slimmer body plan compared to sue and scotty which is what most depictions are based on

[static relic]

Gotcha and what does lirc stand for?

[ocean drum]

If I recall correctly

[static relic]

Ty

[pulsar galleon]

https://youtu.be/GtMFNxYN6qI?si=8nNZ5vJ5KBtU3yy2 38:00

They have Hector’s ichthyosaur fossils in the present. This is huge news. I don’t think words can describe how happy I am. I’ve been researching this animal for the better part of a year and put in countless hours and several hundred dollars into sources… This is amazing.

[scenic flame]

[snow python]

Got it from a friend. Mosasaur tooth?

[tame tapir]

Thats so kewl! Congrats

[river plinth]

Did giganotosaurus hunt iguanodon? I was paleo searching on the internet and came across that claim

[native kindle]

..no.

[jagged trellis]

i know there were some iguanodontids around giga boi but iggy itself is across the sea and abit earlier in time(?)

[woeful falcon]

They didn't live in the same time and lived on opposite sides of the world, Iggy and Giga.

[river plinth]

Ok though I was tripping for a second

Im absolutely amazed so many ppl mistake mantellisaurus for iguanodon now ik were all the art with small arms came from especially in jurassic world 💀
Bottom row is actual iguanodon

[last iron]

Iguanodon lived in modern day Europe, Giganotosaurus in South America

[bright veldt]

So yknow how we had Ichthyotitan yesterday?

Have another one. This time one of the biggest snakes ever. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-58377-0

[river plinth]

The first dinosaur to give you mildy annoying iching :P

[nocturne merlin]

ichthyotitan pretty cool name tho

[bright veldt]

Its name is Vasuki. It’s a madtsoiid that lived in India during the Eocene. It’s the largest madtsoiid outright, and potentially one of the largest snakes ever. Some time is still needed to figure out exactly where it lies, but the paper’s size estimates range from 11-15 meters. We know it’s at least on par with Palaeophis and Titanoboa.

[river plinth]

I was joking 😭 still cool tho

[native kindle]

EXCUSE ME

[crude latch]

I’m sorry

w h a t

[frosty anvil]

So are those para sound studies from like a decade ago still accurate now?
The really instrumental horn sounding one

[light osprey]

I wonder if Putative Cretaceous Palaeophiids were getting as big as they were in the Eocene

[bright veldt]

Yes, although I have to give the disclaimer that it was tested without soft issue. So while it gives us an idea of what it sounded like it’s not 1-1.

[tame tapir]

Can someone who is knowledgeable answer my question, from what time periods are most of the dinos we have in path if titans? Or does it vary much? Thank you in advance i appreciate it

[bright veldt]

Basically everything in PoT is Late Jurassic and Cretaceous basically.

155-66 mya

[tame tapir]

I thought it was late jurrassic , but didn’t know for shure if that was accurate, not needing 100% accuracy just the gist thanks

[sullen cairn]

if i'm doing the math correctly i think the bulk of the roster is from judithian NA or morrison/lourinha

[tame tapir]

Thank you

[river plinth]

Yes

[pulsar galleon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/384119603141410827/1230586366543401103/Sander_et_al._2024_Spits-Cymbo.pdf?ex=6633dbdc&is=662166dc&hm=a9d289f3c0eb645baff07f3be0ba0e5733744f6441fd1cd28f728fc38e4ad8cd& another ichthyosaur paper lmao

[barren lagoon]

Can we agree that synapsids before they became mammals were just insane looking

My teacher showed us this today in science class

[lilac junco]

I wanna learn dinosaur periods like U guys know cos currently I only know they Trex and trike are cretatious and megalania is a Mesozoic monster

[crude latch]

Megalania is Cenzoic, so like mammoth time and all that

[pseudo slate]

So Meg is youngest dino, whats the oldest dino? Stego? Or Rhampho maybe

[crude latch]

IF I’m using my brain correctly the Platy AI is ?

[iron halo]

Yeah isn’t platy Permian?
Or like Carboniferous/permian

[native kindle]

yeye platy

[crude latch]

Late Carboniferous to Permian iirc?

[woeful falcon]

Meg's not a dino, tis a lizard.

Platy would be the oldest creature in PoT ye. As far as playables go....maybe eurhino?

[bright veldt]

Eurhino's the oldest yeah. It's the only early jurassic playable. Completely forgot about it.

[halcyon cobalt]

including mods it’s dunk afaik

[pulsar galleon]

Unless someone makes an anomalocaris mod or something I don’t expect that will ever change tbh

[halcyon cobalt]

there’s a sacambaspis in the works that’s pretty early right?

[crude latch]

Anom is being made so….

[viral jasper]

AE has a whole Permian and even before the permian roster.

its called forgotten monsters

[woeful falcon]

Idk how far before permian they go but Dunkleosteus is Devonian

[sharp canyon]

Here you go

[woeful falcon]

Oh no ya, I should have clarified I meant idk how far back the creatures of Forgotten Monsters go haha

[pliant cedar]

carboniferous, it was a temnospondyl amphibian, same group as Koolasuchus

[flat pond]

Meanwhile I think I found someone who could remake Fossil Fighters

This is their profile if anyone wants to check them out

https://x.com/fossilboy123?s=21

FossilLad🆖 (@fossilboy123) on X

I make art on things I like. I play video games sometimes. That's all you need to know for right now.

https://t.co/vtr61QCU0U

Twitter

[last iron]

I like how they keep some of the stylized elements of them while making them more paleoaccurate

[flat pond]

Same, heck they even made some of the Frontier ones better looking and even created their own original ones

[last iron]

That Diablo is so sick

[flat pond]

It is, love the Mosa one.

They also did a couple of the Champions vivosaurs as well with some more of the og ones

[last iron]

High spined lizard

[flat pond]

Indeed it is

[candid tiger]

Some of these would make good mods

[flat pond]

Mods for what?

[nocturne merlin]

guess

[flat pond]

While it would be nice to see them in some form, I wouldn’t do them as their own thing since well, they have elemental powers and do backflips and stuff. Now skins based off of them would be nice to see.

[fair cypress]

Does anyone have like documents, or smth, that show the musculature of a rex or a ceratopsian?

[white bluff]

Thought you folks would enjoy this shelf I just put up. Mom rex with two little ones

(the tail attachment point broke, I'll glue it back on eventually)

wait omg I just read up. fossil fighters was my childhood

[tough parcel]

(Tyrannosaurus)
https://sketchy-raptor.artstation.com/projects/m810X8

(Triceratops)
https://sketchy-raptor.artstation.com/projects/LeDqav

[stiff osprey]

You accidentally built Wyrex 😂

Keep the tail off, it's an accurate T.rex war injury

[pliant cedar]

the vividen has struck again

[vocal breach]

Me when I spread misinformation over the internet:

[snow python]

Accurate?

[flat pond]

Some more Fossil Fighters stuff the person I previously mentioned has done

[sweet field]

math pliosaur

[flat pond]

It’s more like time but yes it does have numbers on it

[clever sable]

I thought it was found that the wyrex injury was postmortem? Or am I thinking of something else

[pliant cedar]

ye

[clever sable]

What has Gregory S. Paul done to my child

[lavish frigate]

Golly jee Willikers WHAT THE HECK happened to my man?!

[fossil ingot]

From when is that lol

[warped peak]

A new book IIRC

[clever sable]

It's new, just a bad recon probably

[stiff osprey]

"May be an allosaurid, a carcharodontosaurid, or its own group"

no, no it may not

[fossil ingot]

Nah bro what happen to him

[fossil ingot]

Tyrannotitan been 13m and 9 tons???
While Carcha only 12m and 7 tons?
😭

[wheat gust]

This is absolutely amazing

[hallow spear]

Look at his Tyrannotitan scaling

[proper hornet]

How big was TTT?

Making concepts rn and I'd be nice to know Tyrannos and Meraxes size

[bright veldt]

12 meters, 7.5 tons

[proper hornet]

And meraxes?

[bright veldt]

dunno actually

[sullen cairn]

there was a volumetric of sergi's skeletal that was like 5.5t or something along those lines iirc

[proper hornet]

Thanks you both

[sullen cairn]

i like that according to gsp rajasaurus is larger than acrocanthosaurus

[light osprey]

You say that as if Rajasaurus isn’t India’s Megamontrosaurus

[strong scroll]

What y'all favorite Dinosaurus

[crude latch]

1. YiQi
   2.Sapeornis
   3.Spinosaurus
   4.Austroraptor
   5.Halzkaraptor

[candid tiger]

Spino

[strong scroll]

Yippe

[lavish frigate]

#1 Tyrannosaurus || BATAAR MWAHAHAHA||

#2 ichthyovenator

#3 Alamosaurus

#4 Microraptor (R.I.P. Mikey fr)

#5 spinosaurus

[strong scroll]

Yippeee!

[topaz shell]

https://tenor.com/view/ultrakill-minos-minos-prime-thy-end-is-now-punch-gif-16630674477332190433

[lavish frigate]

Explain thy self 🫵

[plain stirrup]

is there a rex specimen with a chunk of its tail missing, if so whats it named

[heady thunder]

Iirc its called Wrex or smth

[frail robin]

1. Deinocheirus
2. Icthyovenator
3. Austroraptor
4. Acrocanthosaurus
5. Deinonychus
6. Borealopelta
7. Australovenator
8. Lambeosaurus
9. Zalmoxes
10. Pachyrhinosaurus

[tulip dove]

1. Brachiosaurus
2. Brontosaurus
3. Dreadnoughtus
4. Alamosaurus
5. Argentinosaurus
6. Parasaurolophus
7. Pachyrhinosaurus
8. Acrocanthosaurus
9. Saurophaganax
10. Stegosaurus

[lucid ibex]

1. Yangchuanosaurus

2. Unenlagia

3. Archaeopteryx

4. Halzkaraptor

5. Riparovenator

[native kindle]

1. Shunosaurus lii
2. Deinocheirus mirificus
3. Epidexipteryx hui
4. Plateosaurus trossingensis
5. Magnapaulia laticaudas
6. Majungasaurus crenatissimus
7. Austroraptor cabazai
8. Bistahieversor sealeyi
9. Therizinosaurus cheloniformis
10. Gigantoraptor erlianensis

[coral dragon]

1. spinosaurus
2. deinocheirus
3. therizinosaurus
   can't make up my mind for the rest

[strong scroll]

Yipppeee

Me is

• Deinocheirus

• deinonychus

• triceratops

• ankylosaurus

[halcyon cobalt]

1. lessemsaurus
2. That 20t theropod thing it sounds cool
3. hypsibema

[nocturne merlin]

1: amargasaurus
2: baluar
3: minmi
4: mononykus
5: stegouros

[lucid ibex]

WHY DO I ALWAYS FORGET THERIZINOSAURUS

ACTUAL PEA BRAIN BEHAVIOUR

[sudden wind]

Jokes aside from earlier, I'd say Albertosaurus, Acrocanthosaurus, Anchiornis, Sauroposeidon, Sauropelta, Saurolophus, Berthasaura (it's so goofy), Europasaurus, Pachyrhinosaurus, Centrosaurus, Torosaurus, Dacentrurus, Iguanodon, Buitreraptor, Leptoceratops, Titanoceratops, Tyrannosaurus, Tarbosaurus, Abelisaurus, Asfaltovenator, Yangchuanosaurus, Zuul, Tarchia, Muttaburasaurus, Australovenator, Borealopelta, Brachytrachelopan, Gastonia, Barosaurus, Tlatolophus, Dilophosaurus, Guanlong, Xinjiangtitan, Apatosaurus, Vulcanodon, Bonapartenykus, Deinonychus, Pelacamimus, Falcarius, Nothronychus.

Now..

What is everyone's favorite marine reptiles ?

Guanlingosaurus is peak

[halcyon cobalt]

aristonectes

[sudden wind]

Good pick

[outer tusk]

Prognathodon, Khinjaria, Kronosaurus, Tylosaurus, Monquirasaurus, Mosasaurus, Saltwater Crocodile, Lioplureodon, Pliosauurs & Sea Kraits

[sudden wind]

Khinjaria, Mosasaurus, Prog, Pliosaurus and sea kraits detected, opinion validated.

[nocturne merlin]

shonisaurus (dakosaurus too but its a crocodylomorph)

[halcyon cobalt]

that’s a reptile🥰

[sudden wind]

^

[woeful falcon]

Better be including A. libratus 😠

[sudden wind]

marine crocs are accepted, as well as marine birds !

[woeful falcon]

😄

[sudden wind]

Gorgosaurus is also cool as hell. Though Alberto and Gorgo are very likely different genera that even may actually contain several cryptic species.

[west drum]

Deinonychus, maybe some alioramus action. Mostly due to how PoT handles them

[sudden wind]

Peak aesthetism

[woeful falcon]

Facts of (extinct) life

[woeful falcon]

Glad to see someone here that sees the light 😌

[sudden wind]

Alberto is however just so stupid looking I love it

[halcyon cobalt]

what if the tyrannosaurs were the moggers of the dinosaur world?

[serene moat]

Kronosaurus/sachi and the abingdon pleosaur(idk if it's a kronosaurus but it's enormous)

[lucid ibex]

Himalayasaurus, Cymbospondylus, Kronosaurus (Queenslandicus ONLY), Shonisaurus, Globidens, Opthalmosaurus, Proggie, Tylosaurus, Dolichorynchops, Abyssosaurus

Ok now…

Favourite Pterosaur

[nocturne merlin]

tethydraco or pterodaustro

[glacial trail]

1.Parasaurolophus
2.Lambeosaurus
3:Albertosaurus
4.Deinonychus
5.Velociraptor
6.Kentrosaurus
7.Corythosaurus
needed 8 houres to answer

[strong scroll]

Me just 4 fav dinosaurus lol

[glacial trail]

based

[native kindle]

1. DOLICHORHYNCHOPS OSBORNI !!!
2. Helveticosaurus zollingeri
3. Khinjaria acuta
4. Cymbospondylus youngorum
5. Palaeophis colossaeus

[sudden wind]

That's actually some of the sickest list ever

[halcyon cobalt]

palaeophis… based…

[fair cypress]

1. Pachyrhinosaurus Canadaensis
2. Diabloceratops Eatoni
3. Allosaurus Jimmadseni
4. Utahraptor Ostrommaysorum
5. Alamosaurus Sanjuanensis
6. Alamotyrannus (T. Mcraensis)
7. Acrocanthosaurus Atokensis
8. Shunosaurus Lii
9. Hazlkraptor Escuilliei
10. Triceratops Horridus

[native kindle]

1. Anurognathus ammoni
2. Tropeognathus messembrinus
3. Darwinopterus modularis
4. Tupandactylus imperator
5. Harpactognathus gentryii

[fair cypress]

1. Rhomaleosaurus Cramptoni
2. Taniwhasaurus Antarcticus
3. Kaikaifilu Hervei
4. Phosphorosaurus Ponpetelegans
5. Jormungandr Walhallaensis

[bright veldt]

I’d just like to clarify that “Alamotyrannus” and Tyrannosaurus mcraeensis aren’t the same thing

Alamotyrannus is STILL in limbo. Mcraeensis was a different situation entirely.

[fair cypress]

1. Barbaridactylus Grandis
2. Phosphatodraco Mauritanicus
3. Titanopteryx Philadelphiae
4. Jeholopterus Ningchengensis

[fair cypress]

It wasn't meant to be taken as synonymous, it's more of those two fight for that spot constantly so I decided to put Mcraeensis there aswell as a runner up

[bright veldt]

Aight

[native kindle]

Titanopteryx is a fly. you're looking for Arambourgiania

[light osprey]

Sulcusuchus seems pretty cool 👌

[sullen cairn]

which "alamotyrannus" because that "alamotyrannus" could refer to like three separate concepts

"alamotyrannus" as in cf. tyrannosaurus, "atroxicarius", or "denazinosaurus"

[sudden wind]

Polycotylidae slays

[lucid ibex]

Polycotylid gang for life

[fair cypress]

Cf. Tyrannosaurus

[fair cypress]

Thanks for the correction!

[heady thunder]

They should just pull all these in T.Rex and go for a vacation

[barren lagoon]

whats the most recent mosasaur reconstruction because i want to make a mosasaur model

[lucid ibex]

GUYS.

GUYS.

[sharp canyon]

Where's bro's intestines!?

[stiff osprey]

this is what they mean when they say 5 ton T.rex

[lavish frigate]

What in the Freddy fazballs is that monstrosity…

[lucid ibex]

Peak performance

[calm jolt]

Daspletosaurus liposuction

[lucid ibex]

You win the internet for today. This is so incredibly cursed to think about.

[barren lagoon]

how did this evolve

[sharp canyon]

Well it started when the primordial soup created the first organism on the planet, it all went downhill from there

[barren lagoon]

early synapsids and anchisaurs were all god on acid

[sharp canyon]

If we go even further back the universe was created, this made a lot of people very angry and has widely been considered a bad move

Besides no synapsid can be as weird as what the cambrian spat out

[barren lagoon]

realy?

realy weirder than these

[sharp canyon]

Yes

[barren lagoon]

yeah but then you see these things strolling toward you

[sharp canyon]

The tully monster is still weirder

[barren lagoon]

well i mean there are a lot of weird things now

[sharp canyon]

Scutosaurus is just a wannabe turtle

[topaz shell]

Which is more accurate?

[outer tusk]

neither

[floral tusk]

I just found out there a fossil excavation museum near me! Has anybody ever been to one or did something similar? I’d love to know about your experiences.

[lavish frigate]

It didn’t. This animal could only be created by supernatural means. No natural process would create such a work of art.

[simple cave]

Imma say PoT one 😂. Hatz is very fragmentary tho so much about what it looked like is up for debate and speculation.

[topaz shell]

I would say dwm considering the body proportions look more inline with azdarchids (and that neck..)

But then again they both are speculative they both suck

[simple cave]

The thing is hatz was unique among azhdarchids in that it had a proportionally shorter neck and more robust builld. The head on PoT hatz seems to be more accurate with a nice broad beak, whereas the one on the right very similar to quetz (Long and slender).

[topaz shell]

The right is pot hatz

[simple cave]

Left is pot hatz?

[native kindle]

wrong

[topaz shell]

Myb

[simple cave]

One on right looks like something from Roblox haha

[topaz shell]

That’s because it is | also the PoT hatz looks more slender than the dinosaur world mobile one

[simple cave]

See if u asked me what that one on the right was I would’ve said quetz. Has very similar crest and beak

[topaz shell]

Ima pull the quetz from it (also the models are 2 years old or 3)

[simple cave]

Thing is they have so little fossil evidence of hatz that they draw on other pterosaurs like quetz and Ambor for reference

[topaz shell]

The one thing I don’t like about PoT hatz is the neck it’s an S shape

[simple cave]

Pot hatz not terrible but probably not beefy enough.

[native kindle]

it's bad for paleo accuracy, great for gameplay. with a straight, more typical neck you get significantly worse animations and inability to hunt what you should be hunting

so i don't judge it harshly. the game is always about the gameplay, and if it means sacrificing a bit of accuracy so be it

[simple cave]

Paleo accuracy left the chat when cera sized thallasodromeus was added 😂

[topaz shell]

Now what do we talk about

[simple cave]

I like how Pot hatz has forward facing eyes akin to a bird of prey. Think it seems logical

[stiff estuary]

The only thing I wish about POT hatz is that it's neck was just a little thicker. It seems a bit too slim for its head. Imo. 🤷‍♂️

[simple cave]

Yeh, could be worse tho, could’ve just been a quetz ripoff 😂

[stiff estuary]

Oh yeah I still like Hatz for sure. 😁

[junior dawn]

PoTs, and easily

PoTs hatz only issues are the bendy neck, bendy arms, and the uropatagium connecting with the tail. Maybe you could find a couple nitpicks here and there but those are the only issues that are easy to see at first glance

the dwm one has goofy proportions

[sudden wind]

PoT's as for the limb anatomy.

[pliant cedar]

POT is very innaccurate, Hatzeg did not have armour piercing pecks, or the ability to force small dinos to call

[pulsar galleon]

Himalayasaurus, Deinosuchus, Hector’s ichthyosaur, temnodontosaurus, and probably kronosaurus

[sudden wind]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/689380181722529856/1017307471360036864/cursed1.gif

[pliant cedar]

dimetrodon >:)
and probably liyataan as well

[heady thunder]

Saltwater crocodile

[bright veldt]

I can’t really pin a particular one down I just think ichthyosaurs are super based

[simple cave]

Gotta be Liopleurodon. Grew up on WWD and always loved this fellah even if it was grossly oversized 😂

[flat pond]

How long was Saltasaurus again? Keep thinking of a certain size but I know I’m wrong about it

[stiff osprey]

8-9 meters / 26-30ft

[flat pond]

Ah thank you. I kept overestimating it size but it is a good thing I kept telling myself that it was incorrect in my head.

Also Rapetosaurus is estimated to be around 49 ft as of currently, correct?

[sudden wind]

https://tenor.com/view/mods-gif-16222180742025017592

[sudden wind]

The scaling in this sequence is so off in this scene. A 25 meters Liopleurodon wouldn't even pick up an Eustreptospondylus like that (with known dimensions) lmao.

[simple cave]

Oh 100%. Still iconic tho haha

[sudden wind]

It is!

[zinc solstice]

Is Huaxiadraco Valid?

[scenic flame]

https://vxtwitter.com/A2113Y/status/1781500328862695687/video/2

[nocturne merlin]

yes

[zinc solstice]

Okay cool! was worried another coold creature could be invalid and I'm glad it's not

[warped peak]

On the topic of monkey

How's the Gigantopithecus holding up? I know the flange is speculative entirely but meh, the rest should be good

[tame tapir]

Bro did not skip leg day,….

[lavish frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/monke-orangutan-cool-deal-with-it-gif-22561130

[tacit pine]

Mine is definitely a close one between Kronosaurus and Mosasaurus ngl.

Ill go with kronosaurus tho

[tacit pine]

Isint gorgosaurus its own thing? (Or were you just joking)

[woeful falcon]

Yes it's its own thing unless you're a goober. But the list I was responding to had only Albertosaurus so I said that

[tacit pine]

Ah alr

[lavish frigate]

Idea. We abolish albertosaurus and found gorgosaurus sarcophagus because that would be a sick name

[woeful falcon]

Now we're talking

[elfin pulsar]

Flange? What’s that

[lavish frigate]

The meat disc around the face 💀

Best way to say this fr

[warped peak]

The cheek fat pads

[elfin pulsar]

Ohhh ok thanks

[flat pond]

Is Segnosaurus is big as the image of it beside the human or is it as big as shown it with the rest of it relatives

[nocturne merlin]

https://web.archive.org/web/20121128221548/http://paleoglot.org/files/Perle 79.pdf might find smth in there

[native kindle]

image with the rest is probably a better basis for sizing. was made in the last year from someone who's a lot more reliable

[flat pond]

Ah, thank you. Really helps a lot when sometimes you don’t have enough information on some species

[flat pond]

Decided to remake my roster that I’ve been announcing, again…. Man I just can’t sit with one set, can’t I?

[nocturne merlin]

just use the rest as a backlog, what i did

[flat pond]

Fair, I’ve reused some species such as Adasaurus

[warped peak]

Don't try for a consolidated roster

Just make a priority list and set aside some candidates for the future

[flat pond]

Yeah, that’s kind of what I did with a couple of different groups. Except I decided to make them choices that people would choose from a list of.

For example, my base roster is of 29 different animals with the roster expansion choices ranging in total from 42 different species but only select members of particular groups would come to the base roster.

[nocturne merlin]

dayum mines 13 lol

[flat pond]

Lol yeah, a lot on my mind

[timber kiln]

ah yes yuty

[flat pond]

Ah yes, the way Google does things

[hallow spear]

I like being a hater, this isn’t physically possible. Alberto takes full priority with its name so if you were to lump them, it would be A. Libratus

[lavish frigate]

That’s why I said abolish albertosaurus. Defy science

[hallow spear]

Real

[warped peak]

Tyrannosaurus librarus real

[woeful falcon]

Tyrannosaurus liberal

[dry kindle]

Did dinosaurs have a glottis like snakes and monitor lizards?

[tepid grotto]

anyone hear about new V. Indicus?

[lavish frigate]

My immediate thought was “there are two Tyrannosaurus inside you. Tyrannosaurus conservative and Tyrannosaurus liberal”

[tepid grotto]

Bruh

[flat pond]

Boom Oxalaia, you’re welcome paleo chat.

[crude latch]

Chat look, it’s spinosaurus

[bright veldt]

Spnio McDoesn'tExist

[light osprey]

Brasiliospinosauravenator

[flat pond]

Now time for a random stegosaur shower

[woeful falcon]

Stegosaurs are cool

[flat pond]

And for the cherry on top, a Spinosaur that has more material to it, Irritator

[crude latch]

Odd looking cat tbh

[flat pond]

Indeed they are

[lavish frigate]

I feel like my girl is too skinny. Y’all agree?

[topaz shell]

The legs look too thick

[lucid ibex]

Here’s a hot take:

I think that the more accurate version of Irritator’s ‘splitting’ mandibles is scarier than the shin-godzilla esque reconstruction that’s been plastered all over the web.

[nocturne merlin]

throat goat irritator is scary

[native kindle]

it's just the same thing pelicans/cormorants do

[gusty jungle]

Hi

Guys pls help me

[tough parcel]

Wassup

Oh idk lol #qna

[outer tusk]

Not a hot take extant animals like komodo dragons, & pelicans do it also the shin Godzilla esque reconstruction was just dumb because no animal should or will spilt it's jaw

[tough parcel]

Why is paleo-chat the place people ask game questions when #qna is very clearly labeled

[outer tusk]

Stop asking here bro use the channel that your question is meant for

Art by GhaspOfDeath

[outer tusk]

People can't read unfortunately

[gusty jungle]

So sad

[outer tusk]

My favorite piece from him

[unborn bane]

@loud grail @gusty jungle Please send a Support ticket to the link in #help so our support team can help you
This channel if for discussion of past and present paleontological discoveries, scientific news, and depictions of prehistoric creatures in media in relation to palaeontology.

[light osprey]

Or perhaps neither are the correct interpretation…

[tough parcel]

Pronto really out here leaking the paper on Irritator being able to unhinge its jaws to the degree it can swallow a small sauropod

[native kindle]

constricter irritator

[flat pond]

Riparovenator is still a thing, correct?

[stiff estuary]

Question. Is irritators expanding jaw species specific? Or would a similar mechanism exist in other members of the family. Eg Baryonyx, Suchomimus, Icthyovenator, and Spinosaurus?

[lucid ibex]

That’s a great question, the answer is: I have no idea and frequently ponder the same thing

[tough parcel]

AFAIK it was not found in Bary-Sucho's lineage and we have a sum total of 0 remains of the skull region that would indicate it for anyone else

[simple cave]

I mean some snakes do but only to swallow large prey.

[halcyon cobalt]

snakes also have crazy specialised face bones

[pliant cedar]

thats kinda different, they just dislocate their jaw

[last iron]

They don’t dislocate them, their mandible just isn’t fused

[stiff estuary]

Thanks @lucid ibex and @tough parcel I thought it was something like that. Appreciate it. 😁🙌

[tough parcel]

[pliant cedar]

ah

[winged bramble]

peace and love on planet earth

[lucid ibex]

WHAT. NO WAY. SEND ME THE ARTICLE NEOW

[tame tapir]

Yeah ichthyo got BIG

[lucid ibex]

WE FOUND IT AFTER ALL THESE YEARS.

THE SEA HINDENBURG.

[tame tapir]

I cant wait till they dig out that dude outta the side of that cliff, wasn’t it a tylosaur too? Not the above

[lavish frigate]

Watch out blue whale. The ichthyosaurs are coming….

[lucid ibex]

The ultimate sea blimp

[sudden wind]

It's such a shame that talking to MidKill and giving him criticism is unacceptable from his pov.

[sudden wind]

I remember this one specific discussion I had with him as I told him that the jaws are weirdly positioned in this depiction, being so a perspective issue mostly, and all he could come up with was "no, you don't know"

[tough parcel]

Erm Neeco...were you there?

[woeful falcon]

You don't know

You don't get it. You don't get me

[sudden wind]

Yes

[tough parcel]

[snow python]

What was the biggest NON dinosaur land predator: Fasolasuchus, Barinasuchus or Saurosuchus?

[bright veldt]

Probably Barinasuchus

[snow python]

Also was Posto 5-6m ? I thought it was like 4-4,5m

[nocturne merlin]

is it not a tie between fasola and sauro? thought it was

[shell crescent]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2279215/

[last iron]

That article is from 2007 and cites sources from the late 1900’s

[bright veldt]

Around 4 meters

[bright veldt]

Fasolasuchus and Prestosuchus are the largest, both being around 7 meters long, Saurosuchus is around 6 meters.

[bright veldt]

I'm sorry I just read the context for this in #path-of-titans. The idea of dilo being faster than alioramus is hilarious to me. Struthiomimids and young/lanky tyrannosaurids are THE fastest dinosaurs outright. Dilo is fast but not THAT fast.

[elfin pulsar]

Yeah fs

[shell crescent]

you know considering that the Dilo wasn't discovered until 80 years ago cough Also the paper is from 07, I'd hate to say this but it's not really outdated considering it was a computer model simulation. And there isn't a lot of studies done on this topic. Claims outside of this data vary between 20-30 mph, but are unsourced and are just 'factoid' pages. Which you know I Don't put much stock in. But there are claims of fossil foot prints from both dinos. The ones that match the Alioramus were estimated at 20 ish mph, where as the ones for the Dilo were estimated at hire speeds. You also need to remember in it's enviroment the Dilo was the top predator in it's home enviroment

Mind you it's territory didn't have that many impressive fossils. though. Of prey or competition species

[last iron]

Dilophosaurus did not need to be running as fast as modern day Gray Wolves to catch its prey

[elfin pulsar]

Yeah but regardless dilo is not going to be faster, let alone 200% the speed of alioramus

And I disagree the paper is definitely outdated. The sources used in it as well as the publish itself is just pretty old there isn’t much to it. Published over a decade ago with sources from well past that

[shell crescent]

I mean aren't Velociraptor, and Deinonychus, estimates even faster? Mind you neither of that species is all that large.

[last iron]

No, they are not

Majority of large dromaeosaurids were ambush predators

[shell crescent]

You know that supports my line of reason right? Most ambush predators are known for snappy short bursts of high speed.

[lucid ibex]

Who’s this guy?

[last iron]

Dromaeosaurids are not built for pursuit hunting in the way an animal like a cheetah is

[lucid ibex]

:D TY

[last iron]

If we use the top burst speed and use that as the general speed for an animal, then we get very skewed results

[shell crescent]

Cheetahs are a barely functional nearly dead genetic line. Who lucked into an ecological niche after over a thousand years of wandering from the americas.

[elfin pulsar]

Seriously, it would make crocodiles look ridiculous

[last iron]

This is not relevant to the conversation as I was using them as a reference for pursuit hunters

[bright veldt]

Dromaeosaurs aren't known for high speeds. Tmk they max out at 25-30 mphish, which is fast but for their size? Not really.

[last iron]

Regardless the predator only needs to be as fast as its prey

Or careful enough to sneak up on them, such as crocodilians

[bright veldt]

This is also just completely wrong. They hunt just fine in the wild, they never appeared in the Americas (Miracinonyx is closer to puma than cheetah), and they don't suffer from inbreeding depression. Low genetic diversity doesn't actually hurt them THAT much. Basically all of their issues tie back to humans hurting them, but apparently it's their own fault they're endangered cause gaslighting

[last iron]

This is truly a common name moment

[elfin pulsar]

Seriously tho dilo is not gonna be twice the speed of alio that’s ridiculous haha

[last iron]

We don’t even have a fully grown Alioramus specimen so we can’t 100% estimate their top speed yet, could be faster than we think

[shell crescent]

I'll find it eventually, it was generally reported on that due to their tiny gene pool we could link them back.

[bright veldt]

There isn't a direct correlation between low genetic diversity and extinctions. Some animals can deal with it fine, some don't. Cheetahs are in the former.

[sullen cairn]

bro thinks he's tierzoo

[last iron]

There is a species of Vaquita limited to an area in Mexico with 10 individuals left that have been inbreeding for years, and it’s been found they have been doing this type of reproductive strategy for a while just fine

[sudden wind]

So untrue. Thanks tierzoo desinformation.

Genetic diversity is indeed low but that does not make them uncapable of surviving : they are the most effective large felid in Africa with more than 40% success rate.

[sullen cairn]

unfortunately they have high infant mortality in very localized instances so they are worthless pathetic animals

[rose bloom]

Kind of rude

[shell crescent]

Low genetic diversity does have an impact when it comes to illness. And I believe the studies can easily be found as the Asiatic cheetah has genetic markers. though we're a bit off topic I think because I Got drawn into a discussion about cheetahs damnit.

[rose bloom]

If we had to mention pathetic animals I’d say the panda or the koala, I hate them so much it’s unreal

[sudden wind]

Me when male elephants that are homozygotes on the gene coding for tusks are unviable : "elephants are all sh*t and worthless animals"

[shell crescent]

We do have fortunately, a lot of foot print fossils from some key dinosaurs that help us flag potential speeds. As we don't have the ability to clone and grow the muscle fibers to really stress test to see what they were capable of. Aside from bone anatomy.

[last iron]

I mean in theory we could

[sullen cairn]

wait what were we arguing about before cheetahs

[shell crescent]

we were talking about Dilos and the speeds of different dinos.

[sudden wind]

I don't even get the hate that animals can get honestly.

X animal : exists and does fine in its environment and ecological niche
Some humans : "I hate it"

I can get it for mosquitoes and other parasites.

[last iron]

They said that Dilophosaurus is twice the speed of Alioramus at 40 miles an hour

[sullen cairn]

bro what

[sudden wind]

Muscles leave marks of their anchor on the bones. Thanks to that, we can approximately reconstruct quite well the muscle mass in some well known dinosaurs, such as Tyrannosaurus.

[shell crescent]

Koala's are impressive tbh, they evolved a streamlined brain. Not unimpressive ... just... you know.

[rose bloom]

Relax I’m joking, but if we are talking about animals with problems I’d say those two have it worse than the cheetah

[bright veldt]

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170323125947.htm#:~:text=Cheetahs are categorized as vulnerable,ever sick in the wild

[last iron]

I’d never suggest using Tierzoo as a scientific source because they focus on making entertaining videos, not accurate videos

[bright veldt]

Pandas are also very unfairly tagged on. Most of their stereotypes just aren't true.

[sullen cairn]

dilo's like 46km/h with larramendi's equation

[shell crescent]

Indeed, and the marks on the adult Dilo specimen were said to be deep and prominent. As well as the injury marks on larger prey in it's region.

[rose bloom]

Tierzoo is a brainlet who dissed centipedes and rated Hadrosaurs low in his dinosaur tier list when it’s one of the most prolific families

[last iron]

IMO the worst one is his fish tier list lol

[shell crescent]

I still hate the Troodon taxonomy mess personally. love troodons, but it's rage inducing

[rose bloom]

at risk of outing myself as a brainlet I thought cheetahs weren’t pursuit predators, rather ambush predators with insane burst speeds as they couldn’t keep that top speed up

[last iron]

Also that time where there was like 6 species of Stegosaurus at one point lmao

[shell crescent]

aaah the bone wars. lets have a competition where no one is double checking our work. Quick, re-arrange this skeleton and declare a new fossil

hell there's still the Spinosuarus issue.

[pulsar galleon]

Every theropod is a megalosaurus species

[last iron]

True

[pulsar galleon]

Carcharodontosaurus was described by Stromer as Megalosaurus saharicus iirc

[last iron]

Megalosaurus atokensis when

[shell crescent]

then there's the hatzegopteryx. just... I hate it so much. every research paper says 'it should be able to fly' and then there's me. Who wants to dispute that, because the idea terrifies me.

[last iron]

Quetzalcoatlus fans and Hatzegopteryx fans debating on which toenail fragment was bigger

[shell crescent]

birds with teeth.

[last iron]

Have you seen geese

[pulsar galleon]

Geese have toothlike structures and so did many extinct birds like pelagornis had literal teeth

[lavish frigate]

Neither of those animals have teeth

[hybrid saddle]

TierZoo has been a disaster for anything related to animals

[last iron]

I forgot but I fixed it
I had troodon brainrot from it being previously mentioned

[shell crescent]

I cant' wait for microraptors. I just hope that we get flight with them instead of just gliding, but I know it'll just be gliding. - Because I treat IC like a spectator sport.

[last iron]

It’ll most likely be gliding for balance reasons

[sullen cairn]

alright so with alio/dilo, a 670kg dilo seems to be ~37km/h with larramendi's equation, which is like just under what in-game alio would be

[pulsar galleon]

The thing he explained where large hadrosaurs would be vulnerable to extant pantherines was just lol

Juveniles: absolutely, a tiger could kill a baby edmontosaurus like it does with a baby rhinoceros or elephant or whatever else

An adult is literally too big for them to kill. There’s no way he thinks a big cat has any feasible way of killing a like… 8t edmontosaurus 💀

[shell crescent]

I still hope they have overly exagurated leg wings. I Wanna look like I'm wearing pants from the 60s

[pulsar galleon]

Hatzegopteryx fans when it’s like 2 tiny bone fragments

[pulsar galleon]

Mammalian cunning vs reptilian resilience…

[shell crescent]

hatz are just the beak things from kenshi and I HATE THEM the idea, the concept, the Look, it BOTHERS ME ON A FUNDAMENTAL INSTUNCTUAL LEVEL

[heady thunder]

Nooouuuuu, it was bigger then quetz 100% 😢

[last iron]

Guys LooP was right!

[sullen cairn]

according to that one paper's equation a couple months back a max-sized 375kg lion could hunt 5399kg prey which is normal adult edmontosaurus size so

[pulsar galleon]

me when its throat is too large to effectively suffocate and it’ll just trample or bite the cat to death

[last iron]

What’s even cooler is the fact that we are the perfect size range for the larger Azhdarchids to hunt

[sullen cairn]

unfortunately the equations never lie

[last iron]

Okavango Delta lion would solo Edmontosaurus fr

[pulsar galleon]

Azhdarchid fans when I remind them that no, they wouldn’t be killing medium-large theropods like carnotaurus and that a Bengal tiger could feasibly kill quetzalcoatlus (albeit it would get stabbed not often than not)

[shell crescent]

Azhdarchid fans when I remind them that they can't fly with a broken fore-limb.

[sullen cairn]

flashback to someone saying quetz could kill teenage edmontosaurus

[pulsar galleon]

could it? Maybe…?

Would it…? lol no

[woeful falcon]

If no flight

Then fight

[last iron]

I used to believe a few years ago that Quetzalcoatlus could kill a Lambeosaurus by skewering it in the head with one hit

[sullen cairn]

nevermind that a teenage edmontosaurus is well into senescence

[shell crescent]

through the eye socket, single perfect samurai blow

[woeful falcon]

I give it like 4 hits perfect accuracy

[pulsar galleon]

A man can kill a bear with a hatchet with the utmost perfect strike, doesn’t mean that is happening even 1/100 times

[shell crescent]

Some men wrestle bears for fun mind you.

[last iron]

Okay but those are Russians and they’re a whole nother level

[pulsar galleon]

And the bears are absolutely not trying, are trained (as much as you can train a bear), and could very easily kill the world’s strongest man like he’s a deer at any moment

[sullen cairn]

deer aren't fodder lol
much like the mighty edmontosaurus...

[last iron]

Deer are actually weak defenseless herbivores that would never harm a bird hatchling, if they fight back they will get reported to the game warden to be put down

[pulsar galleon]

they use their herbivorous power to kill grizzly bears with a single kick

[shell crescent]

Kendell Cummings, Great name. Also not the only case of it. But it has happened where sometimes someone does actually fight a wild bear and not wind up mauled to death.

[pulsar galleon]

its like the myth of hippos biting crocodiles in half, that literally does not happen

There’s videos of a small (2m at most) croc being thrown around by hippos and bit repeatedly and it survives

[shell crescent]

hippos are stupid aggressive though

[pulsar galleon]

More often than not the bear, if sufficiently motivated, will kill or maul someone. Of course, you can intimidate them and whatnot, but 99/100 times I’d back a grizzly bear over a guy with a hatchet for example.

[last iron]

Simply a skill issue tbh

[sullen cairn]

its nice that we've averted the grievously offtopic cheetah discussion to move onto far more ontopic people vs bears

[pulsar galleon]

Should move back to how edmontosaurus is 30 tons on average and hunts juvenile tyrannosaurus because herbivores aren’t akshually herbivores

[sullen cairn]

the spirit of paleo chat lives on

[pulsar galleon]

aggressive herbivore fans when I remind them that the modern analogues (hippos, Cape buffalo) are only aggressive towards predators less than half their size

Not to say that herbivores can’t be aggressive towards similar size carnivores in some circumstances, but usually they don’t do that kind of thing because no animal wants to be injured

[shell crescent]

it still bothers me that omnivores are thrown into the herbi catagory

god I hate Deinos

[lavish frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/kaperoo-prehistoric-planet-david-attenborough-hans-zimmer-dinosaur-gif-25462321 he heard that

He approaches….

[sand gyro]

I was so scared paleo chat was erased 😭

[sullen cairn]

if only

[outer tusk]

What did I miss, plz do tell!

[lavish frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/if-saying-it-would-only-make-it-so-tarkin-star-wars-rogue-one-gif-26233043

Jk! We’re happy here || FREE USSSSSSSS||

[rose bloom]

I like Allosaurus

[warped peak]

So what does the chat have to say on Prionosuchus

Reviving an old project that's basically just Prionosuchus with the skull structure of Archegosaurus.

Intending to make it a super-aquatic ambusher (Ambushing the other aquatic ambushers and more aquatic animals), are there things I should be aware of before I get too far ahead of myself?

Yes I know there's no external gills but stylization

[stiff osprey]

I would shrink the limbs quite a bit, Priono's femur was 1/10 the length of its skull

[warped peak]

I mean all the archegosaurs had small femurs, even ones with larger proportional legs

(I do want to be clear it's not exactly Prionosuchus and as such will be more heavily based around the smaller Archegosaurs like Platyopo and Archego)

I will likely reduce the legs a bit once I finish the model, but I'm at an awkward middle stage where I can't really do that. Too far in to adjust it, but not soon enough that I have textures up yet

While I am aware of temnospondyls having ossified "belly" plates made of altered scales and scales below the soft tissue, does anybody happen to have any solid info on them? I struggled massively when looking for info

[silver canopy]

Okay so I can't be certain, but there is at least a slight possibility of another walking with dinosaurs in 2025

[lavish frigate]

I’m sorry what

[silver canopy]

Considering the Paleodoc is growing in popularity again, I think it's plausible

Image could be faked, but it seems.. fairly legit

[lavish frigate]

That would be cool. I approve

[silver canopy]

Plus only a sith deals in absolutes

[lavish frigate]

Because tv shows can’t exist without my approval I’m sorry for approving Velma and dinosaur with Steven fry 😔

[silver canopy]

dang.. uh

[stiff osprey]

This might be a movie like the 2013 one

[lavish frigate]

Don’t jinx us like that

The universe will make it so

[stiff osprey]

Also lol
Walking with Dinosaurs 2025
Year: 2023

[silver canopy]

I doubt it considering how... Awful that movie was and considering the Paleodoc is re-emerging

[tough parcel]

I mean ngl, the movie's only awful due to the VAs

In general, I liked it

[stiff osprey]

It's a good movie on mute

[silver canopy]

Like I think we've had four Paleodocs in recent years?

[lavish frigate]

It’d be good if the only voice was the bird. I only entrust him with sentience.

[tough parcel]

Yup or watching the Benedict Cumberbatch version

[silver canopy]

Prehistoric planet, life on our planet, the Steven Frye one.. and then there's another one I'm forgetting

I think it was made by a japanese company?

[tough parcel]

Amazing Dino World 1&2

[silver canopy]

Was amazing Dino world any good?

[tough parcel]

Eh, it was just there. Not astounding, not bad

[silver canopy]

I've seen some clips I liked, I think it was deinocheris?

[tough parcel]

Yup, the pink one

[stiff osprey]

The seven ton swamp herbivore... perfect candidate for flamingo coloration

[tough parcel]

Erm random, they feed exactly like each other so...

[warped peak]

Anyone happen to specialize in Temnospondyl gossip perchance?

[full ibex]

any1 know how to nest on xbox in astral arcade server?

[tough parcel]

#qna Why is it paleo-chat people gravitate towards for their questions and not the actual #qna chat

[warped peak]

I don't wanna ping SynchroLight but JFD is the only people I've seen who are actively knowledgeable on biomechanics of Prionosuchus

[tough parcel]

They're...the only ones who have cared to look at Priono lmao

[warped peak]

Unfortunately

Which is surprising because there's a pretty rich amount of fossil material for the relatives tbh

Hell we even know how they grew

And have a vast array of scale fossils from the family

[silver canopy]

Holy cow it's actually been confirmed apparently!

[lavish frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/summer-break-gif-6269967204638541467

[silver canopy]

So from what I've been told we don't have much info on it

But it is apparently in the works

[arctic crane]

Is the qianzhousaurus specimen fully grown or is it a sub adult like the two alioramus species?

[tough parcel]

Qianzhou's holotype was indeed not done growing, but it would not have grown any significantly more than what we have now

[arctic crane]

Would A. altai get close to the size of qianzhiu's size or would it have been smaller? They had to live next to tarbo and juvi tarbos would be competitors so it would make sense for them to be smaller I guess

[tough parcel]

Projecting the adult size of a tyrannosaur, especially ones that are "abnormal"

Bad idea

[woeful falcon]

Aye. Can't really know for sure. Anyone's best guess would be "not far from how big Qianzhou was, maybe" with a shrug emoji

[arctic crane]

But we don't think they did the whole rex metamorphosis thing right they stayed leggy?

[tough parcel]

When we have a sum total of 3 specimens, all from young specimens, we have no comparison to adult forms (Qianzhou is a completely different genus and might be close to Alio's adult forms, but also Tarbo v Rex)

[woeful falcon]

Qianzhousaurus's morphology for its relative maturity indicates that Alioramins may be "just built different" as the kids say, but again, impossible to say without more mature specimens of Alioramus.

Specifically Alioramus. Qianzhou can only tell us so much

[arctic crane]

So they still could have bulked up like tarbos and rex? I guess we just don't know but I would be cool considering the Nemegt Formation seems to have so many speedy leggy boys

Alio I mean qianzhiu probably didn't change much. I don't know about it's formation or the habits they think it lived in

[river plinth]

Why the long face?

[arctic crane]

All the better to eat you with?

[woeful falcon]

I feel like this should spell it out clearly. Alio is known from only juveniles. Qianzhou is all we have to go off of for what a more mature Alioramin is like. Logically speaking Alioramus would grow in a similar fashion, relatively, but it's just speculative otherwise. Qianzhousaurus wasn't bulking up like its fellow Tyrannosaurids. Alioramus probably wasn't either. But how big Alioramus could actually get is a complete unknown

[arctic crane]

Ok thanks , I was looking more for whether or not it changed from a long legged hunter to a bulky brawler like other rex species. It makes a lot of sense for alio to stay like that so it doesn't compete with adults tarbos

[bright veldt]

I personally assume that all of um got to like 7 meters or so. Qianzhou was nearly adult, alta was a juvenile and remotus was older.

[dry kindle]

it had beautiful visuals and I loved it when I was younger

[bright veldt]

(I also keep forgetting Altai is closer related to Qianzhou than remotus so that's a whole mess)

[tough parcel]

The Gorgosaurus hunt sequence was true tyrannosaur hunt perfection

Blows PP's Rex hunt completely out of the water

[arctic crane]

Most of the hunts in pp were mid. No raptor prey restraint? Garbage

[tough parcel]

Actually thinking on it, yea. It is in a completely different class on its own. They managed to make it awesome, but absolutely 0 gore

[dry kindle]

Oh wow! I was wondering how large temnospondyls like prionosuchus grew from larvae to adulthood and this clears it up by a lot!
I thought they'd be legless like modern frogs but I guess not lol

[arctic crane]

But what if I want some gore

[tough parcel]

I bring up "no gore" because Favreau's whole thing was avoiding that unless absolutely necessary iirc

[dry kindle]

ANybody know if terrestrial temnospondyls started out their life in the water like modern amphibians?

[arctic crane]

I heard. Because he doesn't like to see animals violence. I definitely noticed more modern nature docs cutting out the violence from when I was a kid, but how an animal hunts is interesting and important to it's life style not all predators hunt the same way

In my head I imagine dromaeosaurus hunting like flight less hawks and that would have been cool to seen rather than drop kicking a pygmy pachy if a cliff

[woeful falcon]

The Tarbosaur-Sauropod "hunt" was the weakest

[tough parcel]

But blub, carnivores never want to risk injury in a hunt, realism servers told me so

[woeful falcon]

The real problem is the raptors didn't respect the body down rule

[arctic crane]

Lol

The qianzhiu hunt was interesting but it was just a copy of one of the tiger hunts bbc filmed which is fine but those oviraptor things probably have better eye sight that any deer, so how would a tall dino deal with that? Could they crouch down like a tiger with only two legs? Answer me Attenborough!

[alpine island]

I was all for them not just rushing into the middle of a 20+ sauropod herd but they went to the opposite end and had them literally just make a nemegtosaurus trip and die immediately

[tough parcel]

Truly realistic to the dinosaurs

But I highly agree, it was hyped up so much and then it finished in the most anti-climatic way possible

[lavish frigate]

Can you crouch like a tiger with two legs

[arctic crane]

No I'd hurt my knees

[lavish frigate]

Relatable tbh

[heady thunder]

I wouldnt even call that a hunt, the sauropod probably had a heart attack and the tarbos ate it

[bright veldt]

I mean we saw what happened. In the herd's rush to get down the step one pushed another forward and it had a bad fall and died. Dumb.

[sullen cairn]

granted considering some people managed to be upset by the edmonto hunt maybe its for the best we didn't get a theropod actively killing a sauropod

[halcyon cobalt]

why didn’t the Edmont fight back? did you know that edmontosaurus probably wasn’t a strict herbivores? it might have also been super aggressive! the T rexes were lucky the ed wasn’t in musth smh

[storm heron]

How sure are we on that, may I ask?

[outer tusk]

HE WASN'T AT HIS FULL POWER!!!!

[tough parcel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qianzhousaurus
Ontogney section, fighting monster

[storm heron]

Ah, I see, thanks

[charred cypress]

my man calling all my deaths anticlimactic cause i always end up accidentally running off cliffs while looking back at the hunter in-game smh

[tough parcel]

Nah those are just funny

[stiff osprey]

The fact it wasn't killed by the Tarbos wasn't anticlimactic, for me it's that it wasn't trampled

Just fell over and instantly died

[tough parcel]

Random really wanted to see the small sauropod trampled into a red paste on the ground

[stiff osprey]

I need BLOOD I need VIOLENCE

Ironically it probably would have been less bloody if the Tarbos killed it, just bite its neck and hold or something

[tough parcel]

Pull a Mufasa on that thing 😭

[tulip dove]

Then the others just start tearing in to the poor thing

The perfect chance to show them hunting sauropods and they didn't do it

[shell crescent]

You know, I think the Allo deserves a tackle pounce. It would keep in line with the injuries on the bones Allos usually had from stress fractures and bone tears

[serene moat]

They all saw the king and said "nah idgaf" anyways mufasa>simba

[warped peak]

Do we have any evidence of how facial scales in temnospondyls were structured

[pliant cedar]

probably like scales

[warped peak]

very helpful 10/10

IE would they be bigger than the dorsal/body scales? Smaller? A mix of both like in reptiles?

[river plinth]

They leand forward down wind

[river plinth]

It did it literally shoved one and almost knocked it over plus gave one of them a kick while on its back

[warped peak]

I'm gonna do it

I'm bringing in the big guns. Sorry for the ping @kindred night but you're my only hope, JFD is the only people out there knowledgeable on Prionosuchus and Archegosaurs

Temnospondyl anatomy

• Facial scales: What should I be doing here? Fish heads are so different to any temnospondyl, and while temnospondyl scales are fishlike instead of reptilian, it seems incredibly unlikely they'd have scales like Eusthenopteron
• General physiology: How are temnospondyls different than one might be expecting?
• Claws weren't really a thing yet right?
• How would their muscle structure compare? Would it be more amphibian or fishlike? I've handled most of the soft tissue in a more reptilian matter I think, and I'm quite unsure on where to go
• Are those pits evidence of sensory organs on the tip of the snout?
• The tongue cries

[flat tusk]

did they make it to where raptors have two options for feathered and featherless?

[last iron]

No lol

[flat tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/darn-it-shoot-shucks-dang-gosh-gif-16474715

[uneven path]

Hatz is not part of the avian evolution line, istg calling it a "bird" as a nickname has got at least one person thinking it was an actual bird

[patent mist]

Depending on whether or not pycnofibers are actually feathers or not, pterosaurs would meet the Oxford definition of bird which is highly amusing given they aren't related

[open compass]

New images from Prehistoric Planet Immersive

[lavish frigate]

It’s like how a man is a featherless biped

[sweet field]

Achillo has calvus sub

[last iron]

Protofeathers are feathers
Pycnofibers are just a dumb synonym that we wanted to use for exclusivity pterosaurs

[lavish frigate]

The pycnofiber thing was pretty much just people not knowing how far back feathers went and going “must be convergent” and slapping a different name on them

[copper glen]

Wait so in order to play community servers cuz I dont play on official and im on switch do I have to get the membership or wait a bit

Anybody know because I really need help

[marsh tapir]

Starting with this next patch, playing Path of Titans in multiplayer mode on Nintendo Switch will require a Nintendo Switch Online membership due to a policy update from Nintendo. However, single-player gameplay remains accessible without a Nintendo Switch Online membership. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and appreciate your understanding.

Also, for the time being, you may be unable to join some Community Servers due to your version of the game being outdated. That will be corrected when the patch is released for Switch as well.

Furthermore, please keep in mind that this chat is exclusive to Paleo related discussions. Any gameplay related questions or topics should be moved to #path-of-titans.

[copper glen]

Ok sorry

[patent mist]

so in other words, Pterosaurs are non-avian birds by definition

[white matrix]

I dunno it's Poppin up aswell, I think it's another nannotyrannus situation

[bright veldt]

As of right now? Pretty legit. It's pretty fragmentary but I don't understand the hub hub when that's not unique to giant ichthyosaurs. Many have also looked at the paper closer over the past serveral days and haven't really been able to shrink it to where it escapes the 25 meter mark, mature specimen or not. Don't be surprised if it's shrunk in the future for whatever reason but rn it's size holds up.

[stiff estuary]

A question has occurred to me. How the heck would Glyptodonts nurse their babies? 🤷‍♂️ They're built like a tortoise, surely the milk would've been out of reach for young ones? (Unless they had either very unusual body morphology, or they could do some form of proto yoga.🤸)

[bright veldt]

I'd assumine they rear up and sit on their legs/rear

[warped peak]

The wait for JFD to save me continues

[calm agate]

you cannot simply wait for JFD, you must tag for attention, Luckily I am stopping in now what do you need

[tough parcel]

AFAIK they need Prionosuchus information

[warped peak]

@calm agate see here (also I did ping, wasn't sure which of you was better to ping originally)

Nobody has any love for Temnospondyls

[calm agate]

For facial scales genuinely follow whatever rugosity is there, it's often a straight relief of the scales the animal had in life, they're highly variable in shape and size. Temnospondyl scales themselves are more reptilian than fish-like

[warped peak]

Interesting, I'd always heard the opposite. Good to know!

[calm agate]

That being said Archegosaurs specifically are WAY more like fish than any other Temnospondyls bar the super basal ones. To the point that their internal anatomy is very fish-like from musculature to breathing. You'd be working with internal gills in a gaping hole in the side of the animals neck just behind the skull.
There'd be no claws on them, Archegosaurs have extremely reduced limbs to a ridiculous degree

While it's very low poly and thus has teeth textured in here's what the JFD Prionosuchus looks like for reference. Mostly rounded widely spaced scales. The dark patches behind the lower jaw are the gill holes.

These animals were incapable of terrestrial locomotion, genuinely it seems they've made the transition back to a fully aquatic, and very sedentry, lifestyle

[warped peak]

Wooh my gaping Gill hole is correct then give or take, I made the Gills external for the sake of modeling. Not sure if I'll be able to shove them in or not

Honestly if I can't do modeling magic to shove them in I'm not bothered, that's one element in fine having stylized, largely because it was fully aquatic

And I will be playing with that sedentary aquatic lifestyle, turning it into basically a reverse crocodile, focusing in ambushing other things lurking in water

I'm aware the tabular horns wouldn't be visible in life, but it fit well with the temporary aesthetic of the external Gills, which I likely won't be able to fix tbh, and they are one of the defining traits of Archegosaurus and the former Menonomenos I am using for the namesake

I'm basically taking Archegosaurus and upscaling it to the size of Prionosuchus to have slightly more creative liberty and the sake of individuality

However the larger proportional Limbs than Prionosuchus should at least able to move albeit slowly on land

Theoretically

Thanks for the help Synchro!

Actually one last thing

Archegosaurs were still freshwater, despite all their aquatic adaptations correct? The formation they were found in didn't specify a lot

[bright veldt]

https://twitter.com/fishboy86164577/status/1764681785970250062

Tosha (@fishboy86164577) on X

@ARGAtheropodfan A lot of plesiosaurs have teeth that tightly interlock and splay out laterally. On top of that, they came from ancestors with similarly wild dentition. This arose in tandem with a new feeding strategy, a rapid lateral strike. Similar behavior is seen in crocs and lipless whales

Twitter · Mar 4, 2024, 3:58 PM

Plesiosaurs with lips make 0 sense given their anatomy, ancestry, and ecology, not to mention there's no reason why aristonectines would've evolved away from such a condition.

@frail swift

[frail swift]

Thanks, that’s a good source. Her skeletals are awesome

[bright veldt]

👍

[frail swift]

Frankly, I find Plesiosaurs incredibly hard to research when compared to Dinosaurs. I remember trying to find the source for Kaiwhekea being a sifter feeder and the info was in a paper not even about Kai and just a one off sentence

[warped peak]

Imagine how it feels trying to research poposauroids when the only source is David Peters

[frail swift]

So many papers are locked behind paywalls too, it’s quite frustrating. Reading wikipedia just doesn’t cut it, I want to go deeper sort of thing

[bright veldt]

Oh yeah no I get it. Marine reptile research is known for being very limited and for going at a snail's pace.

[tough parcel]

Marine reptile
Instant honk mimimi

[simple cave]

God I wish Kai had a face like this in game 😂

[rustic thicket]

[flint stream]

arent kaiwakhea fillter feeder ? or just pot wrong abt that

[nocturne merlin]

sand so yeah same with morturneria

[halcyon cobalt]

mmmmm mud

[near sleet]

I don't like lipped plesiosaurs because they looked cursed to me same with lipped crocodilians.

[patent mist]

Oxford definition of a bird is a warm blooded, egg laying, feathered vertebrate with a beak that usually flies

[pliant cedar]

i want plesiosaurs to have lips so I can kiss them like dolphins

[tranquil quartz]

Me with Mesosaurs

[pulsar galleon]

Sci hub is your friend

[quartz hamlet]

Anyone have any good recommendations on different sites to get information on all kinds of different dinos? For researching and stuff

[sudden wind]

Her ?

[frail swift]

Is Tosh not a woman? My bad, I just assumed from the profile pic

Which admittedly is dumb because I too am not a woman

[sudden wind]

nw, I got kinda confused because his bio says "he/him" on Twitter

[pliant cedar]

wikipedia, some info is outdated but its still good to get a rough idea

[woeful falcon]

I had to look this up to be sure, but this same exact debate happened here 5 months ago with the same people

How is this repeating

[ancient crystal]

What even is the debate? I tried looking and I couldn't find anyone saying plesiosaurs were lipped

[bright veldt]

It happened in the TLC feedback channel when I said kaiwhekea was missing basic plesiosaur anatomy.

[copper flame]

which was?

apart from the existence of lips on it

[bright veldt]

wrong porportions, excess wrinkles, wrong flipper anatomy

[outer tusk]

didn;t you also make a video about that too

[copper flame]

he did

[sullen cairn]

awful ideas with awful execution

[last iron]

Table that is just a floating bone for dark mode

[sullen cairn]

Somehow the two ominous giant floating femora is better than anything else you could do with camp’s theropod

[lavish frigate]

Is there any research into how cetaceans got so smart and the reasons behind it?

[sharp canyon]

Zinogre based

[vernal anvil]

Im gonna guess is probably bcs of the echolocation hunting method and cetartiodactyl members tend to be social.

[last iron]

FOR REAL

[lavish frigate]

Why is it always paleo chat 😔

[stuck chasm]

@raw cliff This channel is for the discussion of past and present paleontological discoveries, scientific news, and depictions of prehistoric creatures in media in relation to paleontology.

If you require assistance with an in-game issue, please open up a https://canary.discord.com/channels/537375400867659875/1150510168073850971 thread about your problem and our team will be happy to assist you there!

[halcyon cobalt]

how much did saurophagnax “fenris” weigh?

[tough parcel]

Do not ever mention that vile thing until there’s solid stuff published beyond a “he said, she said”

[woeful falcon]

Better yet, don't ever mention that vile thing 😡

[crude latch]

Better yet, don’t do anything

[tough parcel]

Better yet, burn it

[sharp canyon]

Better yet

[heady thunder]

Saurophaganax Fenris? You mean Allosaurus Fenris?

[tame tapir]

👀 aggro samy?

[nocturne merlin]

sabertooth salmon

[snow python]

What were Siats and Chilantaisaurus after all: megaraptorans or allosaurids?

[tough parcel]

Considering no new material has been discovered to clarify their position

[bright veldt]

It’s a mess. I consider them to be just outside of carcharodontosauridae for my own sanity.

[halcyon cobalt]

why again was Rex faster than giga?

[shell crescent]

I'm going to start advocating for Megaraptors to be put in game.

[sharp canyon]

Maip and Australovenator:

[zinc solstice]

Could Jeholornis do powered flight?

[shell crescent]

I am listing the Maip and Australia boy as the subspecies actually https://feedback.pathoftitans.com/suggestions/548178/new-dino-suggestion-a-terror-from-down-under

[shell crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/mario-vs-hiyaa-parallel-universe-super-mario-gif-16136123

[sharp canyon]

Bro how are you ahead of me when there's literally Megaraptors already in the game

[shell crescent]

you refering to mods?

[sharp canyon]

Yes

[shell crescent]

I want to play it in the official Servers, simple as. You know things that'll always be up when the game is up. Something official

[sharp canyon]

Your loss

[shell crescent]

Call it a wild distrust for server owners, coupled with a wild dislike for additional rules to be loaded onto my back to follow.

[sharp canyon]

As opposed to massive mix megapacks and needing to be in a homecave to edit abilities?

[nocturne merlin]

the shoulder joints were quite well built for it, a lot better than that of archaeopteryx for example

[shell crescent]

As opposed to cliques where people all know eachother, and I have to apply to get in. And the onlything stopping me from catching a ban in a 'he said she said' moment is a server mods general mood in that moment.

[native kindle]

lots of paleo topics haha right guys

[shell crescent]

Yes, back on topic we can talk about modding in the mods chat or somewhere else more suited for it

[sharp canyon]

I literally only know one server that requires an application

[mossy anchor]

A classmate of mine found this rock with a weird imprint. Apparently the rock was exposed. It was found in Connecticut. Does anyone know if this is a possible trilobite, or mere coincidence?

[scarlet moon]

That looks like the battlepass

[mossy anchor]

No way…

[honest wave]

I don’t know much about mammals, but I’ve seen a lot of mammoth teeth and that looks very much like one embedded in there.

I don’t know much about their distribution though, so do not take my word for it

[mossy anchor]

I dont think mammoth fossils can be found in connecticut, but ty for the help!

[bold zodiac]

Metri was 1.1 short tons while cera was like 1.3-1.5 now

[final stone]

God I love billboard cerato

[bold zodiac]

Which specimen is that? And metri is slightly taller than cera, but cera is slightly heavier

[scenic flame]

Ceratosaurus (=dentisulcatus) nasicornis, idk the specimen number, the only larger one specimens are a tooth and a femur from eat africa which sorta maybe might be ceratosaurus

Also referencing the chart in pinned messages in this channel, metri is slightly heavier and taller, I've never seen any evidence to suggest these sizes for cerato and metri are wrong to any meaningful degree

[warped peak]

They absolutely can. Mammoths covered almost the entire world

[bold zodiac]

That was the cerato specimen that was 1.5 tons

[bright veldt]

Graphic double integration, the current most reliable method of determining mass in extinct animals, vs a source that literally says it’s largely an assumption

[scenic flame]

yeah I think there is a distinct difference in reliability here

[bold zodiac]

Hm?

[alpine island]

It legit says that the Cerato specimen listed there is ASSUMED to be of similar mass

[sullen cairn]

Roechlingi isn’t larger than dentisulcatus and there’s nothing tying the femur beyond Ceratosauria

[scenic flame]

Ceratotitan lives in my heart

[sullen cairn]

Unless you mean that Morrison tooth in which case yeah its a few dozen cm larger than denti

[sullen cairn]

That’s the same specimen as the one in the gdi

[bold zodiac]

I still believe cera is 1.5 tons

[scenic flame]

with all due respect science doesn't really work that way

[halcyon cobalt]

I believe I am a 400ft tall purple platypus bear with pink horns and silver wings

[wary junco]

10/10 reference

[compact leaf]

it is possible, they ranged up there at points but im not sure if its happened often

[mossy anchor]

Oh sorry 😭
And thank you

[bold zodiac]

Heres another one

[scenic flame]

what is the actual source on the size though

claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence

[bold zodiac]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dinosaurs/comments/wbbiir/all_the_carnivorous_dinosaurs_confirmed_for_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[scenic flame]

that isn't evidence, the weight estimates are still here-say

[bold zodiac]

Wait could this be a reliable one

[sullen cairn]

8m dentisulcatus is wild

[scenic flame]

the big one is scaled from a tooth, it's not great, my source for it not being great is because I made it lmao

[bold zodiac]

So it can’t be 1.6 tons then huh?

[scenic flame]

we don't have any decent specimens that are larger than 1.1 tons, as said before the only larger one is a tooth, and while from what I've been told cerato teeth are abit more reliable for scaling, it's still just a tooth

[bold zodiac]

Hm

[sullen cairn]

And you wouldn’t call the 7m+ tooth dentisulcatus in any case

[scenic flame]

X meters / Y meters = X
X**^3 =** X
X **x Y tons = ~**Z tonnes
also used this formula to calculate the weight of an 8 meter cerato

[bold zodiac]

Sooo?

[scenic flame]

7m 1100kg cerato is the best estimate right now

[sullen cairn]

Tooth scaling cera is also a very slippery slope

[bold zodiac]

Oh and I found this for metri,

[somber nebula]

Tooth scaling is a very slippery slope

[scenic flame]

that weight estimate is from 1988

[last iron]

Would be better to cite the source instead of screenshot that

[tough parcel]

Fearsome GSP Size Estimate has evolved

To become larger than ever

[compact leaf]

me when I tooth scale the cabao turiasaur to 25m+ long

[somber nebula]

It still seems to be pretty accepted. Definitely could be re-estimated based on more recent data but I doubt the size estimate would change much. That seems to be the average size for Metriacanthosaurids (going off of similarly meh size estimates for Sinraptor and Siamotyrannus), so I wouldn't doubt it was in that ballpark of size.

[scenic flame]

I don't think so considering how much metri has changed since then

[bold zodiac]

I think cera, giving the slighter edge to it tbf

What are the weapons for metri again?

[bright veldt]

The thing is that the methods used to calculate body mass do change. Just in 2021 we had a paper that said “Hey, we’re actually estimating dinosaurs too lightly built” and all the mass estimates had to be recalculated again

This entire conversation isn’t really helpful. It’s just science vs confirmation bias.

[tough parcel]

The exact same as Cerato's

[bold zodiac]

I don’t think alio would be 1.2 tons, thought it was 750 kg

[bright veldt]

The 1.2 ton estimate is guesswork. We have no adult alioramines. Based on their ages 7 meters at adulthood is a guess, and the mass was scaled up from there.

[bold zodiac]

Ah

[keen forum]

this, but cerato has much longer teeth and with odd scales on his back and maybe more

[tough parcel]

True...the osteoderms on Cerato's back makes its hide impenetrable by other predators...

[bold zodiac]

And a stronger/deadlier bite as said it has even been thought to have a much deadlier bite than some tyrannosauridaes

[sullen cairn]

When has a conversation here ever been productive

[bright veldt]

We know ceratosaurus’s bite force and it’s not super exceptional, especially next to tyrannosaurids who’re rediculous in that department.

[keen forum]

no but it looks cooler, the only hide that is near impenetrable is ur mo.... i mean ankys for most predators

[sullen cairn]

Granted cera does have a pretty high bite force for its size

[bright veldt]

That is true. Just “deadlier than tyrannosaurs” is way off haha.

[bold zodiac]

And robust powerful fore limbs and hind legs

[keen forum]

hmmmmmmmm

[bold zodiac]

No, I said then some tyrannosauridaes. Idk why someone said it had a more deadlier bite than dasp

[bright veldt]

Tyrannosauridae is tyrannosaurs? What difference does it make?

[keen forum]

the issue with this is some of them even when small would have much higher bite forces than a cerato, and ex. is jane a small rex has a bite force comparable to an adult acro

[bright veldt]

I did randomly compile Dino bite forces from papers w/ some modern animals. Ceratosaurus’s bite is comparable to Teratophoneus’s surprisingly, although that’s kinda surprising more in Terato’s case lol.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/453713840073474048/1201099046350237706/image.png?ex=662b7627&is=662a24a7&hm=314bf7642d426376111e968a5eb81ab2c9458eb69ba6e8cbb7bc7489affd97ac&

[keen forum]

makes me wonder if that woulkd change with teato's build possible being bulkier, also that carch slander