paleontology

[buoyant isle]

annoying

got random banned and cant appeal

[clear oyster]

Ah I see

[stuck chasm]

@buoyant isle You can send the Alderon Games Support Staff a ticket here: https://alderon.games/support regarding appeals or asking for more information. As we as Discord Moderators do not have access to account information or the backend.

[buoyant isle]

cheers

[serene moat]

Nasuto is murdering bro on land, I doubt that mouth will stop those horns ngl

[stuck chasm]

Just a friendly reminder to please view pinned messages for appropriate paleo-chat topics. We recommend all off-topic conversations be directed to DM's, the appropriate channel or another server entirely. Thank you!

[serene moat]

Nasuto Is mopping a hippo

[velvet burrow]

Ok uh

These are honestly confusing to me because both would be ambush predators so the only thing that matters is who's hunting who

[heady thunder]

Thats not how 1v1s work, put them both in a cage, agitated and hungry, who is the one standing in the end?

[crude latch]

How abt say there in a small ish room, either no exits in sight, just a small white room

And you put the 2 in the room, who wins

[velvet burrow]

And covered in oil, of course

[crude latch]

W h a r

[velvet burrow]

Ok ig... hippo bodies nasuto, and posto is too much for the tiger

[heady thunder]

Stand proud postosuchus, I put you in a headlock- the tiger.

[velvet burrow]

Did posto have osteoderms?

[tough parcel]

Not to any extent that'd help

[heady thunder]

Tho if the posto is as big as the WWD one, Ill bet on that guy

[lavish frigate]

Tiger takes the L

Croc 🔛🔝

[heady thunder]

Theres no way thats a 630 pound siberian tiger in the pic

[lavish frigate]

It’s online so it’s true

[light osprey]

That’s a big ole Cat

[tough parcel]

Bro you expect me to GDI and measure a tiger

I used the largest size

[steady rock]

whos winning

[tough parcel]

Me tbh

[steady rock]

can you do a bison and a majungasaurus?

[crude latch]

Ngl

I think bison might solo

[west drum]

Gonna give this one to postosuchus. Tough skin, larger overall build, crushing bite force

[velvet burrow]

Idk, at first glance it also seems brawlier than a tiger

And yes i know tigers are crazy buff

[west drum]

Then again, depends on the species of tiger

Siberian tigers are huge, it could stand a chance against the postosuchus. Bengal tigers are way smaller, barely a chance imo

[crude latch]

Just realized I’ve had this for awhile but never figured out what it is, anyone know?

[warped peak]

Orthocone? No damnit that's not right. I have a million of them too, I just can't remember the actual name right now

[scenic flame]

belemnite?

[crude latch]

Maybe?

[vocal breach]

make it thinner and the fingers and hand longer

[tiny holly]

I mean you're kinda right, orthocone is kinda just a term for any straight-shelled nautiloid, and you sometimes see it used for straight-shelled ammonites too

[signal apex]

What do you guys think is the best place to learn about dinosaurs? Personally at least

[tiny holly]

I do think that's likely some sort of orthocone, but I wouldn't know enough to narrow it down beyond that. Polished orthocone specimens aren't all that hard to come by. If you know where exactly the fossil itself came from that could help narrow it down to something more specific, and I'd encourage checking out the r/fossilid subreddit! They're often pretty good with that sort of thing. If I had to hazard a guess I'd say Orthoceras or a relative because they're like, really really really common in the public fossil trade.

[sullen cairn]

vs

ignore that its neither laten nor campto in the image

[stray wren]

Tenonto and Deinon?

[sullen cairn]

bingo

[crude latch]

Ight thanks 🙏

[storm heron]

Look at these two, the possibility that Deinonychus preyed on Tenontosaurus is suprising yet may be normal.

[grizzled ember]

i thought it was a giant chicken wing for a second xD

[bright veldt]

Hang on, ik EXACTLY what that is. I got one of those myself.

It's the internal shell of a belemnite.

They were squid-like cephalopods that lived during the dinosaur ages.

[serene moat]

Postosuchus mops

[serene moat]

Rip bison

[scenic flame]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-gif-22672301

[crude latch]

BET

[crude latch]

Interesting

[vocal breach]

Just imagine all the unfound fossils because of all the human infrastructure 😔

[tiny holly]

Now just imagine all the others that did fossilise, but then eroded away again as the rock was exposed throughout the ages :')

[torn summit]

Pretty sure it's an Orthoceras. Like serpentarius said, they're common in the public fossil trade. Most likely not a Belemnite because the most common part fossilized is their calcite rostrum, more resilient than their aragonite phragmocone (plus the shape should be even more cone-like)

[snow python]

How heavy was Yangchuanosaurus

[tacit pine]

is this chart still up to date?

[topaz shell]

Ah yes sauro sized allo

[heady thunder]

Its not that out there

[topaz shell]

Need more evidence

[heady thunder]

There was a big convo some weeks ago here about allo sizes starring some dude who works in a museum, you can go through that again

[topaz shell]

So the guy is he a determined paleontologist (dum question)

[heady thunder]

Works in a museum, studies for this, smth smth, its been a long time I dont remember I was just interested in seeing how varied allo is.

[topaz shell]

Ok

[severe field]

Basically allo size in pot is between largest fragilis and sauro, so taking on count other oversized playables allo ain't that off

[tacit pine]

eh i was referring to weights and not height and length

[topaz shell]

O

[tacit pine]

But why does tylo weigh less than spino and leed way 17 tons?

[bright veldt]

Mosasaurs aren’t as outright massive as people think. The bulkier Mosasaurus weighs the same as T. rex.

Leedsichthys has also shrunk a good chunk in recent years.

[crude latch]

D: do show

[crude latch]

Damm

[warped peak]

I mean that's still a big fish

[crude latch]

Ye

Actually what were some of the older larger estimates again?

[stiff osprey]

The most commonly cited estimate is 16 meters and 40 tons, but way back when we had 27 meters and idk a lot of tons

[crude latch]

27? Jesus Christ

[stiff osprey]

The wonders of gill scaling

I'm not convinced about 12 meter max Leedsichthys though, haven't seen any papers talking about it being smaller than 16m

[heady thunder]

Yeah every paper I scouted last year said that max is 16m with 12 being conservative, idk if much changed in 6 months

[next glen]

Herrerasaurus was a lightly built bipedal carnivore with a long tail and a relatively small head. Adults had skulls up to 56 cm (22 in) long and were up to 6 m (20 ft) in total length and 350 kg (770 lb) in weight.

[bright veldt]

tbf don't a lot of mosasaur papers nowadays still use giant estimates?

[sullen cairn]

wait till you hear that amnh 680 isn't even fully grown

[heady thunder]

Ofc its a sub, we cant let sauro fans think theyre valid

[stiff osprey]

They're starting to catch on that they don't have 1:10 head:body ratios, so the 17m estimates are disappearing

[white matrix]

Okay round two, why do I keep going for dinos with scant remains and controversy? Dunno. How’s this spino model so far? Human sized doll model for scale (1.5 meters)

[west coral]

damn who’s tenonto is that?

[stiff osprey]

The underside of the tail is too newtlike, should be shallower and have a smoother transition since the muscles go all the way down. And the neck near the head is too thin

[outer tusk]

forgot but how does suchomimus scale to spinosaurus again

[stiff osprey]

same hip height ish, while spino's 2-3m longer

[white matrix]

Ahhh yeah I was suspicious of the tail, thanks!

[tacit pine]

Yeah. Leed is around the size of a whale shark now? so around 15 tons i think maybe smaller

[outer tusk]

40t is larger than a whale shark

[tacit pine]

leed is not 40t tho

[outer tusk]

I mean Randomdinos just said 16m and 40t is possible

[light osprey]

Are there any possible records of Rhincodontids in the latest Cretaceous

[steady rock]

@tough parcel can you compare a bull american bison and a majungasaurus?

[sullen cairn]

Stego’s gdi

Which iirc is based off incin’s

[west coral]

Is incin’s this?

[sullen cairn]

That’s incin’s edit of gsp’s
He also has a wip one

[late bone]

so will our microraptor have venom?

[west coral]

A. This is Sinornithosaurus

B. This has been debunked iirc

C. I’m pretty sure there’s a scene in this saying something about only sinornithosaurus having venom

[late bone]

oh so its different types of dinosaurs alright

sorry my bad

[outer tusk]

D. no dinosaur have no venom

[lucid ibex]

E. Yet. Idk man palaeontology is wild

[elfin pulsar]

This means all dinosaurs have venom, I can’t wait for them to discover trike horns were venemous 💪 🔥

[tough parcel]

Yes, you could say it is probable for a non-avian dinosaur to have venom

But it isn’t plausible considering a sum total of 0 archosaurs have venom or any hint towards such

[white matrix]

Though there is a poisonous bird iirc, it’s poison comes from the bugs it eats, so you could have a poisonous dinosaur if you wanted a cool spec evo critter

[tough parcel]

Yea but that is completely different from venom and in no way comparable besides being a toxic compound that causes some form of death

[sullen cairn]

okay but what if it likes grows the poison on its teeth mr smart guy

[white matrix]

Yeah, checkmate, Gualicho/j

[tough parcel]

Wtf JFC T. rex..........

[white matrix]

Side note I think miragia is a good opportunity to give venom/poison to a herbivore. Poison coated spikes ain’t realistic but they are cool and also set it apart a bit from kentro and stego

But back to paleontology stuff

[sullen cairn]

isn't that the additional creatures chungkingosaurus in ark

[white matrix]

Dang, foiled again

[crude latch]

I’ve heard a lot of ppl say this , specifically linking Mira and the currently useless poison Berry bush atm

[light osprey]

Now compare it to FMNH PR 1200

[steady rock]

now who on twitter was saying a bison would have a decent chance 💀

[outer tusk]

dude it's FRICKING twitter

[compact leaf]

FMNH P 25107 solos

[light osprey]

Me when I don’t know what that is

[compact leaf]

that’s the brachiosaurus holotype

[sullen cairn]

mighty japanotyrannus

[outer tusk]

can I use this?

[sullen cairn]

sure
its using gats skull

[west coral]

fukuityrannus silly

[west coral]

therizinosaurus versus tarbosaurus

[tough parcel]

Can y'all get unique colors in your charts cause goddamn, they're hard to tell apart

[west coral]

the one on the left is tarbosaurus and the other is therizinosaurus

[light osprey]

Glad the distinction was made I was having trouble too

[outer tusk]

Real ( okay will it ruin the joke if I ask what they actually are? )

[west coral]

Paralitherizinosaurus and the silly tyrannosaur dentary from japan

[stiff osprey]

if i had a nickel for every therizinosaur that is hopelessly outsized by the local tyrannosaur i'd have at least two nickels, which isn't a lot but i don't memorize therizinosaur sizes

[stiff osprey]

One of them has my scale woman and the other has random TF2 characters

[sullen cairn]

im so original

[tough parcel]

That is asking way too much of me

I have the visual acuity of a rhino with the shape comprehension of a 2 year old

[lavish frigate]

The great Falcon of the number 09 is a rhinoceros confirmed

[sharp canyon]

I need someone to explain to me how Titanosarcolites moved

[lavish frigate]

The good lord had an angel for every one of them that moved them around where they needed to go. That’s the truth. My answer is now canon to paleontology.

[crude latch]

Nuclear rocket propulsion? That’s pretty common knowledge

[sharp canyon]

I was more talking about how it opens and closes

[crude latch]

Actually what even tf is this, I’ve seen it a couple times while looking through Mario Lanzas art

[sharp canyon]

It's a bivalve like clams and scallops

And my brain cannot comprehend it moving

[crude latch]

Ah makes sense

[halcyon cobalt]

kumamotosaurus is the only real name for the new tyrannosaur tbh

[tiny holly]

In regards to opening and closing, its not unusual for bivalves to only open a tiny bit. Its easy to think of giant clams who can open pretty wide and also seal completely shut, but that's not how they all do it. Mussels tend to only open up a fraction, enough to squeeze out their rather small foot and create attachements to the rock, and also alow water intake and outtake for feeding. Given its size I reckon Titanosarcolites was similar, really only opening enough to pump water in and out.

Oysters are another good comparison. You don't really see them open up much at all while alive

[viscid surge]

Oysters get up and hunt tuna when humans aren’t watching

[halcyon cobalt]

unlike barnacles that are macropredatory

[sharp canyon]

Barnacles are crustaceans not bivalves

[halcyon cobalt]

smh

[outer tusk]

is Titanoceratops valid enough to not be more pretty another pentaceratops species

[bright veldt]

It goes back and forth but I'm more convinced of it being its own thing.

[outer tusk]

DAMNIT, will is it more liekly in the long run to be its own thing though?

[bright veldt]

idk

[tough parcel]

Implying people look at anything outside of Theropoda enough for there to be a long term consensus

[outer tusk]

chat is this real

[velvet burrow]

Tf is that

A bivalve

Ok next question, what was it doing? I can't picture it anchored to a rock, or burying itself with that massive shell

Or doing anything else

[west coral]

I used to use your scale woman, but I got an idea and here we are

[tough parcel]

I am the original chart maker under the mountain

[loud python]

It's a species of reef forming rudist! Basically doing what coral/sponges do but in clam form

[heady thunder]

Being a sponge, but in clam form.
No wonder its extinct.

[loud python]

You'd be suprised how well they did, potentially outcompeting certain corals in tropical waters during their time

Of course once a big space rock falls Noone has a good time

[hybrid saddle]

^ Benedict Cumberbatch speech bubble

[reef veldt]

I hope the Rhamphorhynchus has a mid air pounce and I hope that it has bleed attacks

And I hope microraptor can jump from trees onto enemies

[crude latch]

Tf is micro doing pouncing things 💀

[sharp canyon]

Oxpeckers

[crude latch]

They said it was pouncing to attack, which makes no sense

[bright veldt]

They better not make them combat based. The game is already super-biased towards smaller creatures I don't need that ontop of their nature getting butchered entirely.

[crude latch]

Fr

It sucks that pot went down the combat route, I feel like it’s getting a bit hard for it to be a animal survival game

[heady thunder]

I cant wait for it to get more survival aspects, like diseases, and stuff to do out of combat.

[crude latch]

Hopefully soon 🙏

[heady thunder]

Yeah diseases are planned, so Im curious to see how they implement it.

Now for paleo, hmmm, the 👑

[crude latch]

Hopefully there’s a bunch of ways to get certain diseases, perhaps drinking bad water, or perhaps there could be ways to get wound infections

I’d also think it be neat if you could somehow transfer contagious diseases in your group on accident

[static relic]

Where does it say about diseases if you could point me towards that direction?

[barren lagoon]

Isn’t it crazy that the biggest animal to ever exist was icthosaur

[bright veldt]

The biggest animal we currently know of is the Blue Whale. Things like the aust colossus can't be considered the biggest when they're fragmentary af unnamed taxa we don't have much of a clue about.

[loud python]

Depending on how you feel about certain estimates it's unironically Megalodon that's the contender for largest animal

And that is horrid to think about

[bright veldt]

Even the largest megalodon only meet average blue whale sizes tbf.

[loud python]

Length or mass

[bright veldt]

Mass. 100 tons is pretty normal for blue whales.

[loud python]

Just making sure we're talking on same metrics

Fair, I just recall some concerning plausible upper estimates for O. megalodon

[lavish frigate]

500 ton hectors ichthyosaur…….

[jagged trellis]

no no no you see spino was like 300+ feet long in one doc and therefor would've been obese therefor big

[keen forum]

we don't talk about that monster water

[woeful falcon]

Blue whales have one thing going for them over meg also, the largest megalodon estimates will only ever be estimates, while blue whales are extant and we can just actually weigh them

[keen forum]

iirc the largest blue whale is about 190tons so meg at it's highest estimates would be damn close to its weight ( maybe ever surpassing it )

[compact leaf]

I didn’t think megs highest reliable estimates got past 100 tons? it certainly wasn’t approaching the largest blue whales in mass

[frosty anvil]

Idk how i feel about meg being nearly 100 tons. That feels excessive

[storm heron]

Speaking of Blue whale's weight, I am curious, how do we actually weigh them?

[bright veldt]

They're from the times of whaling afaik

[elfin dragon]

or we just take pictures of them

[bright veldt]

The largest solid estimates of megalodon are at 20 meters and 100 tons yes. Keep in mind that it wasn't the norm. 15-16 meters and 50-60 tons was common.

[light osprey]

The fella was simply munching on those Humpbacks are whatever it was we found in Europe

[tacit pine]

Megalodon the beast 💪

Biggest macro predator that ever lived along with highest bite force of any other animal to exist 🥱

[tranquil crescent]

dodo easy solos

[tacit pine]

Sounds like 🧢

[tranquil crescent]

its fax

[fossil ingot]

Overrated Shark fr

[tacit pine]

Bias against meg ngl

[indigo grove]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXwSsUv1924

[fossil ingot]

Any Opinion from the small looks on Dinosaur Empire Cera Designs?(I mean designs cause the 3 brothers will look a bit different)

[crude latch]

This looks kinda cool

[fossil ingot]

Scott Hartman is working in this project iirc so I have good hopes for the designs atleast in accuracy

[crude latch]

What even is dinosaur empire again?

[topaz shell]

A series about Jurassic animals or documentary I forgot

[lucid ibex]

Looks pretty baller

[bright veldt]

It’s a silent story about a trio of Ceratosaurus brothers

[crude latch]

Interesting

[heady thunder]

If you mean PoT, check the suggestion website, search diseases and infenctions and youll find one marked as planned by the devs.

Now back to paleo, 15 ton rex

[open compass]

This is Incredible..

[heady thunder]

Looks edible enough

[snow python]

Accurate?

[outer tusk]

Is there a English dub?

[mystic lake]

Pretty much except for the hind legs

[hallow spear]

What lmao?
It looks fine

[light osprey]

Do we have any estimates for Latest Cretaceous co2 atmospheric concentrations @little mauve

[little mauve]

Somewhere between 840 and 1400 ppm according to this model https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/2016PA003055#:~:text=[2006] simulated mean surface temperature,higher than the present day.

[sudden wind]

I don't see any issues on the legs.

[sudden wind]

it's so funny to me that every folks interpret Brachylophosaurus neural spines as giant rectangular scales.

idk though how much it holds up with Edmontosaurus, if these indeed are feature scales or just exposed neural processes due to decomposition/scavenging behaviors prior fossilization.

[last iron]

If we ate “Blue Babe” we can eat this one too

[outer tusk]

Hello, I drew this bust of Megalosaurus and I was wondering how accurate it is

[still ravine]

One of trex's claws is longer then the other.

[sharp canyon]

Does anyone have a good skeletal of Cronopio

[nocturne merlin]

the scrat lookin thing?

[sharp canyon]

Ye

[nocturne merlin]

theres not much online so id just use the skull and try find smth on a relative like leonardus

[light osprey]

I did some digging this seems kind of high, I found estimations for the EECO and CTM which seemed to have been around 1,000ppm

[little mauve]

840 sounds reasonable to me, which they said was the best fit for the geological data

[light osprey]

Idk that’s still sounds high for a GMST of 19 degrees

[little mauve]

It is, it produced a GMST of 24.41 in the simulation. 560 produced a GMST of 20.96 and 280 -> 16.55

[worldly igloo]

Excuse me! This is how Spinosaurus was like!

[worldly igloo]

Spinosaurus was taller, and equally capable of walking around on land and traveling in the water, it did have to take on other large carnivorous dinosaurs like Carcharadontosaurus, whenever they crossed paths, things got nasty, but most of the time, they didn't bother fighting each cuz there was no point, unless it was necessary

[tacit pine]

mosa slams

[worldly igloo]

The mosasaurs did not cross paths with Spinosaurus

[light osprey]

Interesting

[worldly igloo]

Besides, The Isle's Spinosaurus was and is still more accurate

[crude latch]

sigh

[light osprey]

Based on proxy temperatures I think 19 seems a more accurate GMST seeing as even latitudinal temperature difference between something like the MMCO and today yields similar temperature ranges to high latitude environments of the Maastrichtian

[warped peak]

Incorrect. This is Spinosaurus, reconstructed using the most modern skeletal available

[last iron]

Every day Spinofaarus becomes more and more of a reality

[crude latch]

The goofball

[white matrix]

xD

[little mauve]

19 could be it for sure, I don't have that recent climate model paper handy unfortunately

[white matrix]

Spinosaurus from PK. the best representation

I wish I had this game

[warped peak]

Yeah in all seriousness, that is likely the best Reconstruction available currently

[jagged lynx]

skeletally its rlly good - not totally sold on the skin textures

at least for the croc one , iirc the other skins have some nice skin work

[crude latch]

Isn’t the croc tail kinda…eh to?

[jagged lynx]

yh - the other skins dont have it which is nice

[white matrix]

I like the tail of Spinosaurus Paxillus better

[last iron]

It looks oddly fitting to me idk why

It may not be accurate but I do prefer lipless spino with more crocodilian features

[light osprey]

For a bit of fun I tried applying the greatest MMCO temperature difference at northern hemisphere high latitudes and the temperatures I got were within the low range of respective early Maastrichtian counterparts

[white matrix]

Spino with lips matches anyway

[crude latch]

Same

[white matrix]

And I know that there could be a genetic mutation that could leave feathered dinosaurs without feathers

And we don't know

[lavish frigate]

You do know this skeletal is…. Not the most accurate of things right

[crude latch]

They think it is because the up to date ones are “ugly 💀 “

[lavish frigate]

Hot take: spinosaurus was probably one of the most beautiful theropods if the most recent skeletal reconstructions are to go by

Regal one might say

[stiff osprey]

Spinosaurus's display adaptations made it a less efficient hunter than other spinosaurids, but it was a widely successful animal anyway because it was just that attractive to other spinosaurs. Thus, it is objectively one of the most beautiful theropods

[light oxide]

AKA, pretty privileges carried Spinosaurus.

[heady thunder]

Carchs honest reaction: 🔪

[lavish frigate]

Such a beautiful animal

[tacit pine]

Crachas real reaction: 😨 😱 🥶

[crude latch]

Carchs real real reaction, 👀, 🥴,😘

[alpine island]

There's a special place in my heart for the pre 2014 understanding of Spino but this is not how the animal would've looked according to our understanding

[keen forum]

nah

[chilly knot]

..I'd win

[heady thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/rotating-fries-nah-i'd-win-rotating-fries-win-nah-i'd-fries-rotating-fries-meme-gif-10718609432634896388

[keen forum]

carch gonna be eating some sailed lizaed tonight lol, but i have to admit love some of the recons of them crossing paths

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/gojo-domain-gojo-satoru-domain-domain-expansion-gojo-domain-expansion-gif-9293931794511875685

[heady thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/jogoat-gif-11996953865648686576

[chilly knot]

Stand proud you are strong

[alpine island]

Part of me does wonder if a secondary function of Spino’s large sail was as a way to make the animal look even larger than it was

[warped peak]

Almost definitely

[tacit pine]

intimidation

my theory of carcha going: 😨 🤯 🥶 when it sees spino was right

[mystic lake]

I think there too straight in a vertical line

[mystic lake]

Really nice

[tacit pine]

so basically megalo got bigger?

[mystic lake]

No for a real comparison I need something on the picture that I know approximately his length

[tacit pine]

alr

[heady thunder]

If spoon big enough it could probably give it smth to think about

[mystic lake]

Is there any theropods discovered lately?

Idk where to find info about it

[warped peak]

Riojavenator

Generic Spinosaurid #58

[mystic lake]

Do you know where I can find the article?

[velvet burrow]

Generic spinosaurid #58
Generic iberian spinosaurid #48

[mystic lake]

Thanks you two!

[heady thunder]

Can we get a spino shredding the Free Bird solo fossilised pls

[little mauve]

Interesting, it might be a good proxy. Volcanism, albedo decrease from surface forests, other stuff are probably similar

[dry kindle]

I have a question, because archosaurs are considered reptiles, and dinosaurs as a whole are descended from archosaurs, and birds are evolved from dinosaurs... Does that mean birds are reptiles?

[woeful falcon]

Ye

[crude latch]

Ye

[tough parcel]

Ye

[outer tusk]

Ye

[stiff osprey]

They're also dinosaurs, and by extension archosaurs

[outer tusk]

NO RANDOM YOU RUINED THE CHAIN

[crude latch]

[stiff osprey]

Breaker of chains and mother of dragons... wait no

[tiny holly]

we're all fish at the end of the day you could even say we're all just really really complicated worms

[frosty anvil]

Yeah birds are reptiles

[velvet burrow]

Depends depends
"Reptiles" doesn't exist as a clade, to me it's more like a description of a body plan (ectotherm, scaly, sprawled posture). In that sense neither birds, dinosaurs or the majority of archosaurs would be reptiles

[tiny holly]

Making it a paraphyletic term :P the issue is that is where do you draw the line? When does an organism stop being sprawled enough or scaly enough for you to count as a reptile? And what does that mean for the term if an animal more closely related to other reptiles is excluded because it doesn't fit that term, while another animal more distantly related does?

"reptile" as a term scientifically is actually considered less accurate even if you make it inclusive of birds and whatnot, I believe in part just due to the biases associated with the term? We've all come to associate "reptile" with something very specific that isn't actually inclusive of all animals that are cladistically reptiles. So in cladistic-related circles you'll see the term sauropsid used a lot instead, it's largely the same thing but with the intent of being fully inclusive of all "reptiles"

[light osprey]

Maybe the real Reptiles were the friends we made along the way

[velvet burrow]

Yeah that's the thing with older linnaean classification, but ig it being a non scientific informal term wouldn't make that much conflict

Kinda like moles

[light osprey]

The “Shrew”

[velvet burrow]

But again, that would mean many things previously considered reptiles like dinosaurs wouldn't be such

[tiny holly]

A lot of people do still use the term reptile even in scientific circles tbf, just because its useful and already pretty ingrained. It's just used as such with the knowledge its a lot more inclusive than what it was originally coined as

[tough parcel]

Snakes becoming the slimy, disgusting amphibians they always were

[tiny holly]

I think characteristic-based classification being wonky is perfectly exemplified by the existience of synapsids, in particular the more basal and primitive ones. Because they absolutely do check the same boxes as reptiles, yet are more related to us furry freaks. The most basal ones after the amniote split into reptiles and synapsids would have basically looked like little lizards

oh god and dont even get me started on """"trees""""

[crude latch]

So let’s say a mammal re-evolves into that sorta look. Is it then a reptile :/

[tiny holly]

behold, a (not) lizard

also my results when i searched this guy were mostly of a transformer so he's got that going for him I guess

[upper bough]

Modern day animals turned into prehistoric animals!https://youtube.com/shorts/2sWM08gyU4A?si=BUAjnXq-vUuDFg-I

[somber nebula]

I love San Mesozoico, such a fun and unique take on what boils down to a modern Jurassic Park

[upper bough]

Great to hear!

[arctic crane]

How accurate is this size competition?

[halcyon cobalt]

nobody knows

one of the great mysteries of the universe

[outer tusk]

Accurate

[pastel scroll]

I’m just happy to see 3 of the most famous Jurassic predators in the Morrison next to each other

Ngl I thought torvo would be bigger

[outer tusk]

It is

[bright veldt]

That’s on the smaller end yeah

[outer tusk]

Yet still towers nearly modern carnivores

Expect Bull Elephant Seal

[west coral]

bull elephant seal fans when I show them the sperm whale and blue whale

[pastel scroll]

Bull southern elephant seals are so goofy looking

Big ahh villager ahh banana ahh nose

[outer tusk]

real

Is this posture still possible

[frosty anvil]

Id assume no but im not a paleo expert

[topaz glade]

I mean, bird have those posture so except the weight or strength factor I don't see why it wouldn't be possible

[loud python]

Based on what's been seen with the recent mount it may not be nessesary. Tail is now long enough to bring the CoM far enough for standard theropod posture

[topaz glade]

The CoM ? (Sry I'm French)

[tiny holly]

center of mass

[hallow spear]

The tail ain’t really built for that otherwise it would have reduced and robust chevrons

[west drum]

Anyone have an accurate megalosaurus skeletal?

[nocturne merlin]

second is hartman, ive learned that hes good

[nocturne merlin]

^

[heady thunder]

Soooooo skinny, put the guy on a workout regiment

[nocturne merlin]

?

[white matrix]

is it a new specimen?

[tough parcel]

How did you get up there 😭

And no, Carcharodontosaurus has not had a new specimen in 30 years

[tough parcel]

@nocturne merlin Updated version of the one on the left

[white matrix]

i just join this server and search for some carch imforation, and thanks for answering

[tough parcel]

Ahh ok, that's understandable

[stiff osprey]

who tag

[pastel scroll]

Does anyone have a sigilmasarus skeletal?

[stiff osprey]

https://www.deviantart.com/randomdinos/art/Sigilmassasaurus-brevicollis-composite-990956910

[light osprey]

I think the implication was just biomechanical capability, not necessity

[white matrix]

it is me, i just see you mention a new Carcharodontosaurus specimen has been found, i want to ask where can i get more imformation about this.

btw, i remember dan folkes had mention it before, too

[chilly knot]

Choc..

[stiff osprey]

We don't know much about the new specimen, Sereno's team reported finding it in 2022 in the Elrhaz formation, it has 'saber teeth' and is the most complete specimen of the genus yet. Which isn't much since the other Carcharodontosaurus specimens are known from like 8 bones

[light osprey]

I think the head is too small

[white matrix]

thanks, it seems we have a lot to go to figure out the true form of carch

[stiff osprey]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/646179184531472387/1060990098239410247/20230106_123525.jpg?ex=65e22007&is=65cfab07&hm=e34affeecff2635887b2ae14ecdec0438ddb252dd49ac31e87933d6bc1ed6b5d&

here's the article
*2023 not 2022

[white matrix]

I read a 2020 paper about kem kem bed few days ago, and i find something interesting. there is a DENTARY specimen likely refer to carcharodontosaurus saharicus, and it fit in the size of the giga paratype dentary

[late bone]

do microraptor Paleo

[open compass]

That's the best Paleo Reconstruction of spino I ever seen

[loud python]

Fair enough

[outer tusk]

@stiff osprey sorry to ping but is 17t Kronosaurus still possible

[fossil ingot]

That thing is still real?

[gilded seal]

MAKATOONY IS HERE??
Damn

[lucid ibex]

IT’S HIM

[sweet field]

[indigo grove]

I didnt know yesterday was megalosaurus 200th birthday

[tiny holly]

Plesiosaurus too!

[noble dune]

Look out PK spino, you've got competition for the best reconstruction of spinosaurus

[light osprey]

Hmm this gave me a neat lil idea…

[grizzled ember]

thats cursed asf but the animals we have that exist rn do look weird themselves soo this is not out of the realm of possibility xD

[copper flame]

is there any evidence that shows that tyrannosaurus would hunt in family groups
with one adult and its offspring?

[topaz shell]

No

[tiny holly]

Not tyrannosaurus itself, but there's potential evidence for other tyrannosaurs being at least somewhat social, with multiple individuals found together. its not conclusive as there's other behaviours that could be the reasoning, but social pack-like dynamics is one of the theories!

I think it's known from at least daspletosaurus? There may be other tyrannosaurs I'm not remembering

Oh right Albertosarus too

[copper flame]

anything on thanato taking part in that too?

[lavish frigate]

Alberto dasp and tarbo I believe. Tarbo being such a closely related animal is actually pretty good argument for Tyrannosaurus social interaction tbh

[woeful falcon]

I don't recall that from tarbo, or das for that matter. but alberto definitely.

that being said, I think the best place to look for Tyrannosaurus's social interaction would be Tyrannosaurus itself, which of all the numorous specimens we have of them, I don't know that any of them convey gregarious behavior

[tough parcel]

Tyrannosaurus itself actually has a case against being any significant amount of social due to there being zero confirmed bonebeds, each individual is found alone

Of course, there’s two rumored bonebeds + some evidence like Stan’s broken neck (likely couldn’t have hunted for extended period of time)

[tough parcel]

Quiet!!! You’re stealing my thunder!!!!!!

[woeful falcon]

grrr

to add to that, even though the sample of Tyrannosaurus specimens we have is miniscule to the number of Tyrannosaurus that have existed, which is countless, if it was a natural behavior of them, one would think we might find it in the fossil record with enough time and specimens. But we haven't

[tough parcel]

In terms of existing, it is out of the possibility simply because no (known) non-avian dinosaurs committed to a fully aquatic life

Also dinosaur tissue doesn’t work like that (there’s an x-ray from the original artist)

[woeful falcon]

there's also the matter that we don't know what exactly their social interactions could have been like when they did interact. Because surely they interacted, but how much they interacted and how they interacted is in the air

[copper flame]

I think mark witton had paleoart of tyrannosaurus laying eggs on a beach with little social behavior

so I assume the kids never met their parents I guess

[tough parcel]

There is no way to know this

Because A) we have a sum total of 0 tyrannosaur nests

And B) we have no hatchling-yearling rexes publicly studied

[copper flame]

here

[crude latch]

I never thought abt how a Trex would look like mating, now Ik

[copper flame]

it was probably just really quick and calm

[tough parcel]

That doesn’t change what I said

It’s as speculative as throwing a T.rex into a family pack

[copper flame]

i wonder how far parental care when in tyrannosaurus itself

[tough parcel]

Considering the kids were pretty self-sufficient in the first 6 years, I’d assume not a horrible amount

But also considering parental care seems to be an ancestral trait for archosaurs, it’s entirely possible they cared for 1-2 years like crocodilians

[copper flame]

so the kids would probably be protected and trained by the parent for a few years or so than either get ditched by the parent or scared off

[crude latch]

Dinosaurs are weird

[copper flame]

on a quick unrelated note ive seen a lot of hell creek enthusiasts art being used on wikipedia

[tiny holly]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was a crocodilian kind of approach in the sense that sure, hatchlings could feed themselves without much difficulty and may even have entirely different diets from adults, but still benefit from parental protection because they are tiny and so very very edible and tasty to everything else

[copper flame]

they did niche partion at different ages

[tiny holly]

Yeah, it's really a question of at what age could they actually hold their own in their environment

There's pressure to be more self-sufficient because then parents don't have to waste time looking after young and can get busy making more

[tough parcel]

The young T.rex when bull Triceratops in musth + enraged + starving

[copper flame]

the hatchlings probably ate bugs or just ate scraps off of the parents teeth or something while the teens probably ate the pachycephalosaurs and may of mobbed or just sociliased at a younger age to be more successful

Are there any young tyrannosaurs found in a bone bed close to each other?

[tiny holly]

With the size hatchlings likely were I wouldn't be surprised if they ate small reptiles and mammals

I know the daspletosaurus bonebed is mixed ages, nothing thats just youngsters in tyrannosaurus though

[tough parcel]

Btw there’s no terrestrial animal that acts like a dentist

It’s a myth

[tiny holly]

ermmm what about dentists 🤓

[tough parcel]

Humans aren’t animals because we are evolved so……

[tiny holly]

true!!

[copper flame]

uh- oh yeah your right lol

[topaz shell]

I like how we have taxes

[copper flame]

taxs

[tough parcel]

And yea, young Albertosaurines are like, knee-thigh height to an adult human, so I doubt even if there were such animals, the juvenile tyrannosaurs would be too big to consistently rely on it

[topaz shell]

Me when gorgosaurus like KFC

[copper flame]

id hate to be a ceratopsian being jumped by a bunch of albertosaurs

[crude latch]

Whar

[topaz shell]

Pachyrhinosaurus seeing four albertosaurus:

[copper flame]

https://tenor.com/view/scared-cat-gif-26380385

[topaz shell]

Imagine being a hatchling T. Rex and seeing a adult ed starring you down

[copper flame]

im safe

i love to imagine tyrannosaurs picked up their hatchlings like crocodiles

[copper flame]

bros perplexed

[copper flame]

everything in hell creek had something to defend itself from tyrannosaurus in some way

triceratops and torosaurus : quick turning and horns to stab attackers
ankylosaurus: club tails to break the legs of attackers
edmontosaurus: binocular vision
pachy, struthi, and anzu: uuuuuuuuuuuuuuh speed
Denversaurus: I assume stealth
Thescelosaurus: digging or something

[halcyon cobalt]

how is binocular vision a defence?

[tiny holly]

i mean it mostly isnt, buut there is something to be said for the fact that predators, particularly ambush predators, will call off a hunt if they're spotted before they're ready. A lot of predators really dislike eye contact for that reason, and its a contriburing factor as to why eye spots are a common defensive marking across so many animals. If you make it very clear to the predator that you are looking at them, they're less willing to engage.

This whole thing with edmonto's vision is pretty new so there's more research to be done with that for sure, but I've already seen people theorising it was at least partly to make eye contact more obvious and dissaude attack

[crude latch]

I’ve hated knowing that some Dino’s had binocular vision, mainly just because I hate the uncanny valley and a lot of art, mainly recent ed art, gives off that effect and it scares me imaging what that would look like irl

[crude latch]

Like this, I hate this

[tiny holly]

You could argue that uncanny valley is ingrained! It's near universal (among tetrapods at least) for herbivores to have eyes set on the side of their head while carnivores have eyes set facing more forward. Herbivores benefit more from a wide field of vision to spot predators as soon as they appear. Carnivores meanwhile benefit more from the depth perception you get with binocular vision, allowing them to more accurately gauge how far away prey is. That doesn't matter to most herbivores because a threat is a threat regardless of distance. This is why when you get herbivores that break the mold and have more forward-set eyes it looks really peculiar and uncanny to us. Another good example is the Balearic cave goat (Myotragus)

[crude latch]

The who what when how goat?

nope

Hate it

[wanton pebble]

Gonna have a career in paleontology

Then nitpick the game for any inaccuracies

Mwahahahahahahhahahaha

[outer tusk]

@stiff osprey can I use this skeletal for Sachaisaurus?

[native kindle]

hey nerds, how big were the 3 pachyrhino species? (length and weight, preferably.) ping me when anyone can answer preferably :D

[west coral]

Use this

[outer tusk]

I though that one didn't fit the proportions of the animal as much as Thomas' skeletal

[west coral]

This isn’t Sachicasaurus, this is a random brachaucheniine that was referred to kronosaurus

[outer tusk]

Okay

[outer tusk]

Another thing is it okay to place Kronosaurus at 17t and Sachiasaurus at 13t?

[last iron]

I really like the idea of bittern eyes in Dromaeosaurids LOL

[stiff osprey]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/381179221063761940/1083854882194325624/Sauropoda.png?ex=65e24004&is=65cfcb04&hm=f8201ea55594304cd7acd647c62e1909a7ea66aaf9d43ae5221338d4747f00cd&

Also this one

[warped peak]

Time for everyone's favorite time of day: Random Matchups

300 kg Gigantopithecus vs 400 kg Dilophosaurus

Assuming Dilophosaurus wins, at what weight do you think the ape would win? Equal weight to Dilo?

Heavier than the Dilo?

Assuming that the ape isn't just in shock over weird dino and has an actual clue on how to fight back

[outer tusk]

Dilophosaurus

Dilo at the largest can be 650kg

[warped peak]

Okay, but I also specified weights for both

[outer tusk]

250kg for the monkey
400-650kg for Dilophosaurus

[warped peak]

Okay, but I'm saying off the specified weights. Not a 250kg vs a 650 kg

[outer tusk]

Giganto would have to be significantly larger than Dilo to "win"

[warped peak]

Could you elaborate on why? I mean they're extremely well muscled in all likelihood, with most of the muscle going into the arms

[pastel scroll]

This is straight slaughter the dilo wins

Actually

[outer tusk]

Giganto the fraud

[warped peak]

Again, this is why I specified sizes.

[outer tusk]

Again Giganto isn't winning

[warped peak]

At base I absolutely don't think so. But I also don't believe it needs to be SIGNIFICANTLY larger than the Dilo to win either.

[pastel scroll]

Giganto is getting clapped (PAUSE)

I have a random fight, tyrannotitan chubutensis or carcharadontosarus saharicus?

[crude latch]

Gigantopithicus vs Gigantosaurus, Pithi obv wins in this one 😏

[outer tusk]

Who wins one vs two!!!!!!

No offense but megatheropod carcharodontosaurids are interchangeable on who wins cause most aren't that much larger than either other

[pastel scroll]

True I’m pretty sure tyrannotitan and carcharodontosarus are around the same size but tyrannotitan might be heavier

[outer tusk]

Carcharodontosaurus: 8.4t ( 6.9t using Dan skeletal )
Tyrannotitan: 7.5t

[pastel scroll]

K thx

I’m now day dreaming about beelzebufo

[warped peak]

See now that Gigantopithecus can beat confidently

[outer tusk]

it doesn't but let's see if you can cook

[pastel scroll]

Beelzebufo vs Goliath frog

[sullen cairn]

perotorum's ~5.2m and ~2000kg, lakustai's ~5.65m and ~2600kg, and canadensis is ~7m and ~5000kg

at the largest @native kindle

[pastel scroll]

True nerd power

[warped peak]

I mean

Orangutans today can lift 3× their own body weight on average, alongside having a bite roughly similar to a lion and about 600 pounds of grip strength. I'd say that Gigantopithecus, being about 4× heavier than a modern Orangutan, would very easily be able to beat said frog

As a matter of fact, there's a very real chance it could just uh... Crush it in one hand

[outer tusk]

Me when one singular jaw bone:

[warped peak]

Okay but even a modern orangutan is pretty easily killing a frog. Even if it's 30 pounds

[errant iron]

So we talking about Dilo v big monkey?

[outer tusk]

Yeah though I petiton a ban on AVA here

[warped peak]

Probably a good idea tbh, but its still a good way to spark engagement in the channel when it's quiet

[errant iron]

Dilo really has agility over Gigantopithecus. But I don’t think bleeding the monkey a lot will end the fight soon

The dilo has to bite the vitals, and that is when Giganto could have a shot at grabbing the dilo, and just messing it up

[errant iron]

If that is true, then Gigantopithecus could REALLY mess up the dilo, potentially killing it by either strangling it, or just by throwing it around

[warped peak]

I was aware monke strong but I'd never actually looked at the numbers, good lord.

An orangutan is about 7× physically stronger than a human of the same size, in the arms

[sullen cairn]

considering leopards can kill gorillas i think a theropod with a marked size advantage is going to be fine

[outer tusk]

^

[errant iron]

Ok yeah, the dilo would be easily physically manipulated by the Gigant

[outer tusk]

guys can anyone explain the swiss tyrant paper to me

[errant iron]

They will need a good bite to the vitals to secure a kill. The Giganto won’t just LET the dilo bite its neck

[outer tusk]

Does need to bite the neck to be fatal, yk

The back of primates like with human are very vulnerable

[sullen cairn]

if its 25% larger that doesn't seem too hard

[outer tusk]

Also I doubt a lone giganto would want to actually fight a giant bipedal dragon that legit towers it

[errant iron]

Based on what I read, the dilo is shorter than the Giganto on average. So getting the neck will be tricky

[light osprey]

The mammalian cunning though….

[outer tusk]

Shorter in what though?

[errant iron]

The only reason leopards kill gorillas if with both stealth and they fact the strike from high ground

[errant iron]

Dilo is around 7 feet tall, and Giganto is around 10 ft tall

[light osprey]

These AvAs are abysmal. No mammal today has ever been hunted by a terrestrial animal that weighed as much as Dilophosaurus

[lavish frigate]

Insert based falcon size comparison

[outer tusk]

Chat is this 10 feet tall

[lavish frigate]

I assume they meant upright

[warped peak]

Keep in mind I was also saying
a) To assume that the Dilo isn't just alien to Giganto
b) Dilo was probably winning, so at what size would it be a far fight, or biased in favor of monke
c) Again, not using the smaller estimates. Using the 300kg upper estimates of Giganto as a baseline

[outer tusk]

What

[errant iron]

Ok so a 661 lb Giganto, and probably 10 ft tall standing upright

[light osprey]

Definitely not 10ft tall

[errant iron]

Even if the dilo gets a good bite on the neck, the long arms of the Giganto will allow it to jostle off the dilo, and throw it around

[errant iron]

I’m just reading Google

[light osprey]

Polar Bears standing erect can exceed 9ft. It’s not taller than a Polar Bear

[outer tusk]

Google isn't a good source when regarding paleontology

[warped peak]

10 feet is the upright posture upper estimate, not for the size accepted nowadays

[errant iron]

Oh. Then what is the estimated

[light osprey]

To my feeble eyes this look to maaaybe exceed 2 metres

[lavish frigate]

dilo gets a good bite and probably proceeds to maul, claw, and ratite style kick giganto into the light on the other side

[native kindle]

tyty

[warped peak]

Nowadays they're about 8 feet erect and 200-250 kg

[outer tusk]

250kg for Giganto

[warped peak]

The principle question was at what size would the Giganto be on equal Footing with a 400kg Dilo

[lavish frigate]

Theropods against relativity more recent mammals is almost never fair

[errant iron]

Giganto can stand upright and be eye level to the Dilo. It will probably try to use its arms to good use, shoving the dilo away, or just punching it

[sullen cairn]

w/ dilo downscaled

[errant iron]

Yeah! Standing up, the Giganto has a height advantage on the dilo

[light osprey]

My Good Samaritan, Gigantopithecus was food for its resident Pantherines

[outer tusk]

Dilo is downscaled btw

[sullen cairn]

if having a height advantage meant you lost a fight most predators would be awfully restricted in what they could hunt

[errant iron]

Still. The head would be around the shoulders, right?

[heady thunder]

Its an ape, every large predator around its size will maul it.

[outer tusk]

No, above the shoulders

[light osprey]

The Lion is simply incapable of hunting Wildebeest don’t you know

[outer tusk]

Mean when I tell people Apes aren't as strong as lot of people think against other animals:

[errant iron]

Oh nvrm. It’s 8 ft for Giganto, and 7 ft for Dilo

[light osprey]

The beast who kills Leopards….

[errant iron]

Still, the dilo trying to bite the neck will leave it vulnerable. Even if it does, the Giganto’s arms punching the chest and neck of the dilo will force it to let go, and maybe even will be thrown around

[outer tusk]

What

[light osprey]

Imagine what Gigantopithecus could do to a mere feeble Tiger….

[outer tusk]

Again Dilo doesn't need to go for the neck for it to be fatal or just have an advantage of the ape, if the ape is smart it'll first like any sane animal that never seen animal like dilophosaurus, would just instinctively run away

[lavish frigate]

I love how in every 1v1 type convo it’s just excepted as fact that all predators go for the neck when a lot will literally just bite chunks off them, bleed them out, or straight up disembowel their food

[sullen cairn]

i yearn for the day i can ragdoll a male leopard

[outer tusk]

^

[lavish frigate]

Bro needs a zoo membership….

[light osprey]

Erm your taller silly, go do it rn

[errant iron]

Oh. Zebra are just as helpless to lions as Giganto is to Dilo. And yet, they use their kicks to get them off

[outer tusk]

This guy is literally me

[outer tusk]

What, I don't see the Giganto trying to kick with it's back legs ☠️

[sullen cairn]

zebra are like substantially larger than everything that hunts them

[lavish frigate]

I think you mean “this guy is literally everyone”

[heady thunder]

If you were 10 feet tall and 900 pounds of lean beef, you could easily ragdoll a leopard

[errant iron]

It would still try to fight back, and not stand there on deaths doorstep

[warped peak]

This does put it better into perspective

The Dilo absolutely has the better weapons, but Gigant's arms are built to swing a 250kg animal from tree branch to branch. They're far from weak

[outer tusk]

Not saying it would but how is Giganto comaprable to a Zebra again?

[pastel scroll]

Ngl I don’t feel like the size advantage won’t do sht

[sullen cairn]

zebra are notably generally much larger than lions

[light osprey]

Because similarly to the Zebra and Lion, Gigantopithecus is larger than the- oh wait

[lavish frigate]

This is like a polar bear hunting a human bodybuilder

[compact leaf]

not to interrupt this riveting conversation but does anyone have the hip height or length for the ingame allosaurus?

[outer tusk]

Guys just a reminder this is what we have of this ape

[errant iron]

They are just as helpless, but at least the Zebra sort of fight back against lions! Wouldn’t a more- intelligent ape try to do the same and not continue trying to miserably failing at escaping?

[lavish frigate]

How dare you bring up science in this session of Jurassic fight club!

[compact leaf]

I need to compare to actual A. fragilis specimens so this does indeed belong in paleo chat

[outer tusk]

What

[errant iron]

The dilo is faster, so running is useless

[light osprey]

Chris Bumstead takes the W

[sullen cairn]

zebras a bad comparison when a zebra is literally bigger than a lion

[outer tusk]

Also why compare a Zebra to an Ape ☠️ and not other Apes or primates ☠️

The comparison is LITERALLY there

[lavish frigate]

The real question we should all be asking is…..Shastasaurus vs Freddy fazbear

[errant iron]

But I’m saying that the zebra also has little options when a lion is biting their ass

Same with the Giganto if it is trying to run from the Dilo. Which it can’t

[light osprey]

Leopards hunt Gorillas I guess that’s the end of the discussion

[sullen cairn]

this is also why you see zebras dying to lions exponentially more than vice versa

[outer tusk]

So real

[errant iron]

Even then, SOME cases, they actually fight back by kicking the lions. Wouldn’t a more- intelligent ape see running as useless, and instead fight the Dilo?

[light osprey]

Table should do a scale comparison between a Leopard and a Gorilla

[outer tusk]

How is the ape more intelligent if we have barely a lower jaw and some teeth

[errant iron]

It is part of the great ape Clade. Do the math

[sullen cairn]

which means it wouldn't die terribly because

[lavish frigate]

Ok it’s very unlikely it wasn’t intelligent lol

[errant iron]

They would see a chance of survival by fighting the dilos, yes

[last iron]

If yall have ever seen the chimps throwing around the raccoon that got into their enclosure, that’s basically what would happen

[sullen cairn]

dilos still winning most of the time

[light osprey]

Corvids and basal Theropods are all in Theropoda… this means…. 😳

[outer tusk]

"it is a part of great ape Clade. Do the math"

WOAH WHO HELL YOU'RE SO SMART, THANK YOU THANK YOU FOR TELLING ME SUCH INFORMATION

[sullen cairn]

just how the cookie crumbles sometimes

[errant iron]

I thought u had a BRAIN

[light osprey]

The Mammalian cunning just wasn’t enough

[lavish frigate]

Woah woah let’s calm down there. Silly ape convo doesn’t necessitate all caps

[outer tusk]

Are you making fun of me because of my intelligence

😭 I feel so offended right now

[errant iron]

True. But might suffer lots of internal damage

[warped peak]

To be fair, that's also an ambush

[light osprey]

Can’t believe I didn’t notice this lol

[sullen cairn]

i think the ape might suffer a lot of getting eviscerated

[compact leaf]

please people I need to compare to fragilis

[light osprey]

Someone help em

[warped peak]

Anyways

[errant iron]

Yeah. The bleed will take away their strength. But not before they dealt big hits to dilos

[outer tusk]

Like what

[light osprey]

How heavy is Dilophosaurus anyway

[errant iron]

No I am not. Just try to use it in these conversations

[outer tusk]

400kg-650kg

[errant iron]

Idk. What do apes typically do for fighting?

[sullen cairn]

we're using a 400kg one here

[light osprey]

Yeah that Ape is throwing in the towel sorry

[outer tusk]

Beat their chest at other apes

[warped peak]

Indeed

So, how big would Gigantopithecus have to be to have an advantage over a 400 kg Dilo? Realistically speaking, assuming its not an ambush, the ape knows how to handle a Dilo, and the strength is scaled like Orangutans, being the closest relative

[errant iron]

That’s for intimidation

[lavish frigate]

Dilo can just spit venom at it (🚨sarcasm🚨)

[errant iron]

But yes, they will punch the Dilo. And because of the powerful arm strength, internal damage like broken bones might be inevitable

[light osprey]

How often do most animals come into contact with an 880lb predator

[outer tusk]

Not often

[compact leaf]

I don't even know where else to ask, this was my only hope

[errant iron]

Not often unless they have no other choice

[warped peak]

Dilo is also, pound for pound, one of the most dangerous dinosaurs of all time. Having a bite force close to or rivaling a large Allosaurus without even being a FRACTION of the weight

I fully accept that

[outer tusk]

What

[sullen cairn]

i don't think dilos bite force rivals a large allosaurus

[errant iron]

So yeah. I’d give it to Dilo. 50% to 60%

[outer tusk]

What the hell are you yapping about ☠️

[warped peak]

I've not seen a lot of data, but given the Dilo's recent bite strengthening, last estimate I saw was about 6.3k Newtons

[light osprey]

Real

[errant iron]

Ok I solved the problem. Now I

[last iron]

That dilo was definitely mewing

[sullen cairn]

that'd still be like less than half a large allosaurus' bite force

[outer tusk]

Where

[warped peak]

I'm not as sure on Allo estimates as they vary a LOT, but I believe they were high 6000s low 7000s last I checked

Moreover they're just so not concrete anywhere

[light osprey]

Hank really went; 🤫 🧏

[outer tusk]

Ngl I really hate the PHP rex for biased reason

[sullen cairn]

a large allo would be like 10kN+

[warped peak]

I suppose I should clarify how large is large now? With all the Not Allosaurus™️ and whatnot, I struggle to keep track on Allosaurus itself at times

[light osprey]

Actually this conveys the jawline meme better

[outer tusk]

Why not just gave a random size estimate for the large allo in question

[light osprey]

Mewing since 69mya

[sullen cairn]

even the strictest definition of allosaurus would have a like 8.5m average and thats including immature individuals

[compact leaf]

is PoT allo bigger than the largest fragilis?

[sullen cairn]

if you wanna call amnh 680 fragilis then who knows

considering amnh 680 isn't fully grown

[compact leaf]

yeah compared to 680 at its current size

[sullen cairn]

prolly then but idk pot all size

[warped peak]

Looping back to this

[compact leaf]

it'll probably be fine then, as long as they're close to the same size

[sullen cairn]

but when i make pycno and alio substantially larger because they're not fully grown suddenly i'm no longer a bad guy

society

[sullen cairn]

prolly something vaguely similar needed to the size advantage needed to reliably fend off a leopard
granted i'm not actually sure what the answer to that is

[pastel scroll]

They are rapidly approaching your area

[outer tusk]

Sorry for having a opinion

[chilly knot]

what in gods name happened

[warped peak]

https://tenor.com/view/hmmm-mmmm-monkey-turtle-kung-fu-panda-gif-17129341

[pastel scroll]

It’s ok

[light osprey]

i forgive you

[chilly knot]

Leopards took on silverbacks, dilo loses because no mammalian cunning

[severe field]

Larger than largest fragilis but smaller than sauro so its in between

[compact leaf]

lovely thank you

[outer tusk]

@chilly knot would this pose be possible for animal like sarcosuchus or any large crocodilimorphs?

[chilly knot]

why not

[light osprey]

Yes!

[outer tusk]

Okay thanks cause am doing Puru,Deino,Aegi, and Machi

[outer tusk]

Where can I find the new reconstruction of Fabio's Megalodon

[somber nebula]

Fabio Alejandro's twitter page

[outer tusk]

Couldn't find it

[somber nebula]

https://twitter.com/FabioAleRomero/status/1596715490017087488

Fabio Alejandro (@FabioAleRomero) on X

Their behavior, movements and look are something I'm amaze of these sharks specially from its more famous relative the geenland shark, wandering slowly in the depths of the ocean seafloor catching everything they can put their jaws on.

Twitter · Nov 27, 2022, 4:00 AM

[outer tusk]

Nope

[crude latch]

Nope

[west drum]

Is this a decent baryonyx skeletal?

[sullen cairn]

i'd prolly just go with hartman

[outer tusk]

Use Blame's

[dark tapir]

Some of my fossils :)

[somber nebula]

Yep. Looks perfect from what I know of.

[errant iron]

Hey y’all! So I’m working on a study for Utahraptor, which will also function as a base for future drawings. Is this good?

Yall might remember me from earlier about Gigantopithecus vs Dilo

[copper flame]

it can see danger

[elfin pulsar]

Binocular vision is better depth perception, do you mean monocular?

Oh wait no I think I’m getting the names mixed up haha

Wait, I think I’m right… can someone else tell me if I have the terms right or swapped lol

If I have it right then ye that wouldn’t be a defense

[stiff osprey]

Binocular is to focus on things ahead of you. Monocular is to see from all directions. So monocular is the defensive one

[elfin pulsar]

Ok I thought so, thank you

[vocal breach]

It’s a little bit too light, I think 650-700 would be a better average iirc

[stiff osprey]

23ft is too long as well, the biggest one we have is 18ft

[bright veldt]

It's also very light. Utah was around 1,000 lbs lol

[vocal breach]

I thought that was around its max weight?

1.1k is largest estimate I’ve seen that’s still considered valid

[sullen cairn]

gryphophorax...

[bright veldt]

We only have a single reconstruction remotely reliably measured so it's better to use that than anything else honestly. Might as well use max weight if ur using max length anyway.

[vocal breach]

True, what do you think of 800 for an average though?

[sullen cairn]

can we use metric plz this hurts my brain too much

[vocal breach]

Also, make the snout a little longer and make the bottom jaw slightly more lipped

[vocal breach]

Uhhhh, 360kg-500kg

And about 6 meters

[bright veldt]

No utah is 6 meters

[vocal breach]

Oh wait typo

I meant to say 5

Mb

[errant iron]

It is from the front angle. It is long

[outer tusk]

The teeth should be less cruved out

[errant iron]

I based it off BYU’s construction of Utahraptor skeleton

[outer tusk]

And probably shouldn't have crest

[errant iron]

They had the lower jaw curved

[errant iron]

It isn’t a crest. It’s a indent from the nasal cavity

[outer tusk]

May I see what you based it on

[errant iron]

Uhhhh… I.. didn’t base it off anything. That’s the nasal cavity relaxed (not full of air)

[outer tusk]

What

[errant iron]

But the feathering is from a red-tailed hawk

[outer tusk]

Also am also refering to the skeleton you based it on

[errant iron]

Oh! There isn’t ONE skeleton I used. I sort of referenced many different constructions of Utahraptors skeleton

BYU’s skeleton as one. And Scott Hartmann’s from 2017

Just to name a few

[outer tusk]

Honestly I would just use Scott Hartman and just reference the flesh off of Gabriel's, Fred, and maybe some other

[errant iron]

Maybe. For tissue, I’m going of some muscular diagrams of Utahraptor, and some paleo art. Idk if i used Gabriel’s in there

[woeful falcon]

I also mistook it for a crest. It looks more like a lacrimal crest than anything. I actually thought it was a yutyrannus until I like, actually looked at it

[tough parcel]

That's not how breathing works

That would be the world's deepest inhale ever to suck the skin tight enough to wrap around the bones to that extent

Utahraptor vs red-tail, you can see the little prong they both share and the hawk doesn't have a projection

[outer tusk]

I didn't wanna question it cause I know they were trying lmao

[tough parcel]

That doesn't excuse it, you must teach regardless of what they were doing

[outer tusk]

True

[plain stirrup]

so is aenocyon the dire wolf?

[bright veldt]

Yes

[lucid ibex]

What’s the deal with the Yangchuanosaurus supspecies? Is that still valid?

[tough parcel]

PoT classification has been a disaster on the paleo-community

Before we go into it, subspecies does not exist in dinosaur paleontology. It physically can't because it is determined through genetics 99.9% of the time

Anyways, here

[viscid surge]

Wuh

[sharp canyon]

The terminology PoT uses has always bugged me

[heady thunder]

Technically, if the pot dinos were real, the sub species would be called subspecies still, POT just skips naming them T.rex rex and Trex sanguis and just skips the middle man, cos, videogaem

[tough parcel]

What 😭

Clearly they should be in different genus

[heady thunder]

Why? They can mate and reproduce fertile descendants, that makes them automatically a species

[tough parcel]

Nuh uh

[heady thunder]

Yes uh

[tough parcel]

[compact leaf]

technically there are species in separate genus that can hybridize

I hate genetics

[heady thunder]

Yeah, but the hybrids arent fertile or cant go on to produce more hybrids, like a mule.

[compact leaf]

there are hybrids between species that can’t do that either

it’s just terrible to deal with, I’m not even sure what point in trying to make anymore or how it relates to paleontology

[heady thunder]

Just saying that if the pot dinos were real, theyd be classified as the same species, cos they would reproduce fertile descendants between each other.

[outer tusk]

What

[velvet burrow]

Yeah that uh

What's the criteria to separate species in different genera?

Because imo it should be
If they create fertile offspring they're the same species
If they create infertile offspring they're different species within the same genus
If they can't create offspring they're not in the same genus

[heady thunder]

I think thats how it goes for most cases, there are probably outliers, as usual, we cant have uniformity on this damned planet.

[compact leaf]

the outliers are insects where it’s just complete utter chaos

and when you have over 300,000 species of beetle that can happen

[heady thunder]

Oh insects? Thats the outliers? Thats a relief

[compact leaf]

yeah subspecies and species can get pretty messy in any vertebrate but genus tends to remain somewhat stable

except for forest elephants, they’re a whole thing

[heady thunder]

Are they just elephants who live in forests and got a species name just for that, or was it genetics

[compact leaf]

it’s genetics, originally they were a subspecies of Loxodonta africana but they have been moved to their own species

where we get messy is that now there’s push to possibly even move them outside of Loxodonta altogether, given that it seems they’re closer related to Palaeoloxodon

[heady thunder]

I think theyre bothering too much, the mating principle should take priority imo, but what do I know Im just a rando

[somber nebula]

Just now realized that the land speed species for Suchomimus is Suchomimus lapparenti, in reference to Cristatusaurus lapparenti, is it confirmed that the two genera were synonymous or is it still up in the air?

[outer tusk]

Up in the air

[tough stirrup]

It would be so cool to get a spino rework or just a spino mod that created a more realistic spino. I want the giant tail 😭 Something closer to PK's would be so cool

[velvet burrow]

Or if Alderon just remodeled the tail

They did it with laten pls

[somber nebula]

Divine Beasts is making an accurate spino mod rn. It's next up for them once they finish their Giganotosaurus mod (which they're just about done with if I'm not mistaken).

[heady thunder]

The realistic spino looks sad seeing what it could have been

[velvet burrow]

A troodon /j

[tough stirrup]

:O Omg my life will be complete when it comes out 😍

[tough stirrup]

Imo the shape looks good, and maybe they just haven't started on them yet, but even from such a far away look, it feels like it's missing details that are clearly visible on PoT spino, like dermals and ridges

[heady thunder]

Oh I didnt mean the model quality, I meant how the PoT spino has more, how do I say it, chad features.

[tough stirrup]

Chad features?? 🤣 Explain?

[heady thunder]

More upright, taller, looks more muscular, yknow

[tough stirrup]

Oh okay yeah I get that, I'm just a realism nerd so those feel eh to me

[heady thunder]

I look at it from the lenses of, if irl spino saw the pot one in the same river, it would not come over to mess with it, or theyd mate, idk.

[open compass]

That's the most realistic Mapusaurus reconstruction I ever seen

[lavish frigate]

At least their carchardontosaurs have a design philosophy they are following

Spiky and weird spike sails/humps over the hips

Same thing with how Dromaeosaur sounds are done in JWE2. They all have different versions of the barks

So at least it’s consistent

[sullen cairn]

food for thought, the 18t fruitland hadrosaur tracks don't have any evidence of an efs

[outer tusk]

Honestly I love it a lot minus the spikes

[summer spoke]

perfection indeed

[steady rock]

how we feeling

[crude latch]

w h a r

No shot, Nuh uh

[crude latch]

Link?

[steady rock]

https://twitter.com/RMSOBigfoot/status/1760726149045604364

RMSO Bigfoot (@RMSOBigfoot) on X

Peter Groves claims to have photographed a thylacine in Clifton Springs Australia

Twitter · Feb 22, 2024, 6:00 PM

[open compass]

Of course! Photo must be in 144p

[stiff osprey]

this photo is old, and of a fox

[crude latch]

Oof really?

[open compass]

It doesn't look like a fox

[ancient crystal]

That's where the lack of pixels comes in

[serene birch]

aint the second pic some typa australian wolf that went instinct due to the americans that came to australia and used dingos to hunt it or smth idk

[steady rock]

i mean, from far away, a foxy with no fur looks like one

[stiff osprey]

https://twitter.com/TetZoo/status/1761064327430160767

Darren Naish (@TetZoo) on X

This photo is from 2019, is not new, and its proportions show for sure that it's a fox, not a #thylacine

Twitter · Feb 23, 2024, 4:23 PM

[crude latch]

Prob a dingo

[serene birch]

it aint a dingo

[stiff osprey]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/557353484962496512/1210681642478473316/GHCqgjGXkAA_Ucr.jpg?ex=65eb7224&is=65d8fd24&hm=2b216014bcdc39afa6bbe72c80ec820ee56d8533c961a62e1ca08096b7bab5d4&

[open compass]

Who used camera that makes 144p photos in 2019

[stiff osprey]

''cryptid finders'' of course

[open compass]

Noses are different

And ears 🤔

[serene birch]

evolution is hard

[stiff osprey]

the tail's too thick for a thylacine, and it has no stripes

I would have said dingo but the tail's too long for a dingo

[open compass]

Dingo's body is different

[serene birch]

like i said evolution goes brrrrrr

[stiff osprey]

yeah it's just a thin haired fox

would be funny if they are evolving to take the niches thylacines occupied

[serene birch]

🤦‍♂️ not even joking but evolution ofter serves as a nerf

[compact leaf]

the thylacine that are left probably aren’t in australia, papua new guinea is the best bet

[serene birch]

papua new guinea is full or random cultures and random barbaric caniballs not gone try to find it there

[compact leaf]

some notable people seem reasonable sure it’s there and apparently have actual evidence but they’re being very hush hush about it to protect the animal

at least until there’s an actual expedition to verify and secure some funding to protect it

[serene birch]

i mean if America and other forces found the animal they r a expert in hiding stuff so i wouldnt be suprised if it was still alive

[trail jewel]

Figured I’d share this here since this is the paleo chat. I started a YouTube channel the other day, I mainly hunt marine Cretaceous fossils here in Alabama and I’m gonna start documenting the trips we go on. First vid was pasted little over a week ago. If y’all are interested be sure to check it out

https://youtu.be/4Lz950opShU?si=zThQGVfCaqb0QyjA

[lucid ibex]

My bad, I didn’t know, and thanks! :)

[white matrix]

Rate this daspletosaurus (horneri..?) Drawing I made ?/10 depending on scientific accuracy

Here's a pic without the flashlight

[stiff osprey]

I'd say it doesn't really look like a Daspletosaurus at the moment, maybe make the skull and lower jaw deeper, especially at the back

[white matrix]

ye for some reason i suck at drawing the more later tyrannosaurs lmao

[stiff osprey]

here's roughly D.horneri's head shape as an adult (MOR 1130)

[vocal breach]

Randomdinos here for the W

[plain stirrup]

could aenocyon take a niche of jackals, wolves, or hyenas? which would be the best? for a mod idea.

[warped peak]

Laten but Wolf

[plain stirrup]

gotchaaaaa

[sullen cairn]

bisti 2 is adorably small next to bisti 1 and i feel bad about it getting brutally murdered

[halcyon cobalt]

crazy how bisti 2 would wipe to floor with bisti 1

[ruby patio]

Ceratopsian soloes

Never back down never what 🗣️

[stoic tinsel]

well they are from different time periods of the kirtland formation

[sullen cairn]

NMMNH P-25049 erasure

[sullen cairn]

well dalman and saitta think its nanobistahieversor but nobody likes that study so i'm electing to ignore it

[outer tusk]

And they're both from the Fruitland formation, and the ceratopsian is Pentaceratops?

[sullen cairn]

Kirtland and it’s bisticeratops

[stoic tinsel]

iirc bisti is living with that undescribed tyrannosaurid from the farmington

[open compass]

https://youtu.be/OSUrUTq5xGU?si=kMniTkhnjcL8n_zP

[sullen cairn]

afaik the unnamed farmington tyrannosaur is the toothmarks

which is somewhat complicated by the fact there's skeletal material which may or may not be referable to bistahieversor in farmington

[warped peak]

Finally: Nanotyrannus v2

[ionic marsh]

Can anybody tell me anything wrong with my hatze please on scientific accuracy

[stiff osprey]

It's pretty good, I would say the wing tip should be pointier and the neck pouch thing should be thinner where it meets the torso, that's all

[ionic marsh]

Ok thank you

[fallow citrus]

hello! would hadrosaurs have slit pupils or more round pupils?

[nocturne merlin]

round because theyre diurnal not nocturnal

[fallow citrus]

oooh okay, thankies

[ionic marsh]

Wait why are pterasaur and azdarchid wings pointed

[nocturne merlin]

because its a membrane on a single finger, the curved wingtips require an internal structure that isnt present (correct if wrong)

[stiff osprey]

^
the last bone on the wing finger is straight, so unless there was a cartilage extension, the curve of the wingtip would only be as much as the joint between finger bones could bend (which is not a lot)

[ionic marsh]

Makes sense thanks again guys

[hushed fossil]

This fills me with joy

[halcyon cobalt]

poor bronto ( i think )

[undone parcel]

i think its Bronto

[hushed fossil]

Why?

[halcyon cobalt]

getting jumped

[hushed fossil]

Damm

[rancid arch]

Its not a giant pigeon, thats the problem

[ionic marsh]

Exactly that's so real

[velvet burrow]

Round but there's also the possibility that they had them horizontal (kinda like goats) since they're prey animals

Though i don't know how well that holds up now with the edmontosaurus discovery. Do we know if other hadrosaurs had binocular vision like that?

[errant iron]

Is this Utahraptor sketch accurate?

[tough parcel]

We still have the crests, so not entirely

The wings shouldn't have a noticeable crease between the wing segments (should be one continuous surface)

[storm heron]

We have Dromeaosaurid crests? Or do you mean the drawing does (which means its inaccurate in that aspect)

[tough parcel]

The drawing has crests, which is wrong and I thought I had pointed it out earlier

[crude latch]

Grr why can’t the world be nice and give us cool dromeosaur crest 😤

[storm heron]

You know, you can make a hypothetical Dromeaosaurid that has crests (or you can simply draw one that we know of and just add feather crests to it).

[crude latch]

Ye but I want real dromeosaurids with crest

[storm heron]

The closests you can get atm is some very basal Tyrannosauroid (though it will lack the hooked claws).

[livid gorge]

Anhyone wants to give their oppion on the AB acro... Private message me

[frosty tree]

Probably apatosaurus, but brontosaurus is closely related(with the new study saying is valid! Yay)

[frosty tree]

Yeah the wing tip was curved so it wasn't a point but was still very pointed, this allowed for a stronger connection as it wasnt at a super sharp angle and probably caught more wind

[halcyon cobalt]

its deffo bronto

[frosty tree]

Yeah probably, its the more well known one

[snow python]

Isn't Carch bigger than Mapu?

[frosty tree]

Pretty sure mapu has bigger average estimates, but carchars max is higher or something. Best to just say they are similar in weight between 6-7 tons possibly 8

[snow python]

My top biggest carnivores are Tyrannosaurus, Giga, Carch, Spino, Saurophaganax, Tyrannotitan, Mapu and Deinocheirus. I don't include Sauroniops because is very fragmentary

[frosty tree]

Spino has bigger estimates than carchar, but the possibility of carchar being heavier is still debated so thats a pretty solid list imo

[snow python]

Rex: 10,6-11t
Giga: 10,1-10,4t
Spino, Carch and Saurophaganax: 8-8,3t
Tyrannotitan and Mapu: 7,5t
Deinocheirus: 7t since it was downsized

[frosty tree]

Deinocheirus should be 6.5 max. 7 would probably be possible but anything over that is absurd

[snow python]

Heared on some site tyrannotitan was downsized as well from 7,5t to 5,5-6t but i don't think is true.

[frosty tree]

Most carcharodontosaurs where downsized with meraxes' discovery. A lot are now 5-6 tons with the 3 biggest (mapu, carchar, and giga) still staying over that by a bit

[serene moat]

Where's meraxesgiga? Or is it smaller than mapu,carch and gigy?

[serene moat]

Nvm u just said lol

[snow python]

Meraxes was around 11,6m and 5t

[frosty tree]

Pretty sure the paper said it was around 4 tons and 30ft long, a lil smaller than suchomimus

[snow python]

As for Tyrannotitan i think it was 11,8-12m and 7,5t as its bones were quite dense

[serene moat]

I really hope they find more giga remains because the fact it's that big and only 2 have been found is wild

[frosty tree]

Thats very long too long for that weight, giga is estimated at 8-9 tons and only 39-43ft long and tyrannotitan being that long is a bit of an overstatement dont you think?

[snow python]

Dan Folkes and some other people estimated the biggest giga at 13,5m and 10,1-10,4t. The holotype was 12,7m and 9,1t or sth like that

[frosty tree]

I think closer to 33-36ft is more accurate for large carcharodontosaurs such as acro, carchar, tyrannotitan, and meraxes(though this would be a bit longer)

[frosty tree]

Pretty sure Dan Folkes was still around 12.5m, but if you can look it up that would clear it up, as I'm not to sure myself

[snow python]

Tyrannotitan was somewhere between Acro and Carch in terms of size

[frosty tree]

If we are assuming theropods had a similar amount of variation in sizes like mammals then a range of 5-8 tons for most carcharodontosaurs is probably good.

[snow python]

Problem is that most of the big carcharodontosaurids besides meraxes, giga and acro are known from very fragmentary remains

These 3 are the only big ones known from reasonably complete remains

[frosty tree]

Yeah sadly, so their sizes are just based off eachother wich makes it hard. It's like basing a lion after a a tiger, but you only know of the tiger from descriptions so its a big game of telephone

[snow python]

Either way no one was bigger than Rex, at least until we find something bigger

[frosty tree]

Agreed, rex was just massive.

[stray wren]

Rex also has a massive sample size and being the only megatheropod in its formation on its side

[frosty tree]

Yeah its definitely got preservation bias

[snow python]

Is Alamotyrannus valid

[sullen cairn]

be cretaceous North American megatheropod
be only carnivorous theropod above 150kg on western half of landmass
be common throughout most of said landmass
be acrocanthosaurus

[frosty tree]

Pretty sure its not, but T.macraensis is valid as far as I know and that's basically alamotyrannus

[sullen cairn]

alamotyrannus is different material from mcraeensis

[stray wren]

It's earlier than "Alamotyrannus", but yeah

Alamotyrannus is probably just Tyrannosaurus anyway

[sullen cairn]

alamotyrannus is really stupid to explain because it in theory should refer to tyrannosaur material from the maastrichtian ojo alamo formation (naashoibito member) but naashoibito actually might be in kirtland rather than ojo alamo and also some of the alamotyrannus material is actually from the de-na-zin member of the kirtland formation which isn't even maastrichian

[stray wren]

I know what you said but I'm too tired to actually comprehend it

Basically Alamotyrannus probably isn't real

[sullen cairn]

alamotyrannus is a rabbit hole of utter bafflement of how convoluted the whole thing is

the worst part is chances are at least some of the material that was intended to be alamotyrannus is still looking to be a valid taxon but nothing's even been said that indicates its anything like rex especially

[frosty tree]

Yeah is just theropod bones, most likley tyrannosaurus but maybe not? So its wierd I just call it tyrannosaurus for simplicity sake

[sullen cairn]

some of "alamotyrannus" is prolly at least closely alligned with tyrannosaurus but also there's other "alamotyrannus" material that is solidly before tyrannosaurus and doesn't even seem particularly similar to tyrannosaurus

cause some of "alamotyrannus" got dropped to a late campanian member of kirtland and all that's been said about it is that it resembles teratophoneus and lythronax in gross morphology

lived with parasaurolophus thought which is nifty

[frosty tree]

Might be an ancestor to rex itself

[sullen cairn]

if it is the abstract didn't mention it

ignore that it's labled as gorgosaurus here

[frosty tree]

Definitely not as robust as tyrannosaurus

But then again mcraensis isn't as robust, and It looks a lot like this, just maybe a bit less curved

[sullen cairn]

i don't think anything's ever been stated tying it close to tyrannosaurus specifically anyways

[frosty tree]

Yeah but it sure does look similar

[stray wren]

I don't think tyrannosaurs came from the south, most evolutionary lines point to them coming from Asia and radiating down, not really ever reaching south america before the kt

[frosty tree]

Never had to come from south america, just a southern north American tyrannosaurid that evolved bigger and moved back up

Went from Canada to Mexico back up to the US

[topaz shell]

Wouldn’t that be down (nvm)

[pastel scroll]

Beelzebufo

[chilly knot]

The paper was capping in that aspect

[errant iron]

AS I SAID: NOT CRESTS

[alpine summit]

Shouldn't the rectrices be going all the way along up its tail, or are they just restricted to the end like you drew? Or is it still unknown.

[errant iron]

I think it’s still unknown. But it has been stated that Utahraptor was a ambush hunter, like lions, so that would probably translate to shorter rectrices

[alpine summit]

Ohh that makes sense.

[white matrix]

To yall paleo nerds
How many of you actually have good grades in math?

[opal pawn]

I tried doing a rough estimate of where Allosaurus' puberty generally takes place and how their growth spurts effect them physically! This is all rough estimates because I'm horrible with math and could only find so much information about baby Allosaurus and their weight (even though they have a mostly intact skeleton of a 2 year old Allo). Lil Al could have been WAY lighter, on average hatchlings start off at about 100lbs, I'm averaging up just to be generous for a growing 2 yr old, especially in comparison to the growth spurt they have before 10 yrs. (Some of the information for AMNH 5767 had to be filled in due to incomplete data, using the maximum size range for Allosaurus.)

[plain stirrup]

asian sauropods?

[frosty tree]

What is height in? Cause meters or feet is waaaaaaay to big im afraid.

Also most dinosaurs probably started under a pound, as they layer eggs, so a 100lbs hatchling is pretty huge.

[topaz shell]

I need a name for my dromaeosaur

[nocturne merlin]

any background info/lore?

[topaz shell]

It evolved from Utahraptor

[nocturne merlin]

damn right brb

[tough parcel]

And as I said, and tried to illustrate with my hawk example

No matter what you do, there will not be visible projections over the eyes like you have. It would be one continuous ridge

[nocturne merlin]

did utah really have the masiakasaurus mouth?

[open compass]

No

[errant iron]

Wdym. U have never pointed that out

R U HAPPY NOW

[nocturne merlin]

its got crests

[errant iron]

OML. NOT CRESTS

Look at its skull!

[nocturne merlin]

dosent have crests

zoomed in

[errant iron]

Some do show the nub up

I think the confusion comes from the fact that it’s looking forward, and not traditionally sideways

[white matrix]

If that thing is running towards me at the speed of a cheetah Ima cut him some slack and just do it for him

[topaz shell]

Not that fast around an average human

[white matrix]

Also,why do dromeosaurs have those rings in they're eye sockets?

[topaz shell]

Just realized I used an outdated skull for the dromaeosaur

I’m too lazy to fix it tho

[errant iron]

Those are the sclerotic rings, bones inside the eyes of many vertebrates

[white matrix]

They're function being?

[errant iron]

I think only birds have them

[compact leaf]

birds and a lot of reptiles

[errant iron]

Maintaining shape of the eye

[white matrix]

No I think some reptilians do too

[errant iron]

Oh yeah thx

[white matrix]

?
Then why is it only mostly found on dromeosaurs?