paleontology

[stiff osprey]

I never knew how many ankylosaur indets. there were in South America

things are everywhere

[outer tusk]

^

[little mauve]

Same here. I think we have a decent accounting of the groups present between Appalachia and Europe at the time, their specific diversity is an intriguing mystery though. Probably plenty of birds and mammals doing interesting things as well.

[light osprey]

Tbf, Mammals are doing interesting things everywhere during the Maastrichtian

[sullen cairn]

lajasvenator is from Mulichinco btw
but the two are laterally congruent so

[compact leaf]

wait is there not nodosaurines known from marine deposits thought to be from appalachia? I could have sworn there was

[light osprey]

Yes indeed

[little mauve]

There are but not Maastrichtian

There are New Jersey nodosaurs though too from later

[compact leaf]

ah I guess I thought they were later than they are

[light osprey]

The best record of Dinosaurs we have from Appalachia are the Birds, and taxonomically they are a chaotic mess

[little mauve]

And various ones in Europe from the latest Cretaceous, they were definitely there

[compact leaf]

so in terms of late cretaceous stuff (late but not necessarily maastrichtian) we have nodosaurids, basal hadrosauroids, tyrannosauroids, and I think an ornithomimosaur? there's more I'm forgetting but it paints a picture of some weird basal lineages

[outer tusk]

okay

[compact leaf]

larramendi is going to find and tooth scale a 25m long late surviving turiasaur in appalachia just to shatter my remaining sanity

[light osprey]

Technically all those have some capacity of Maastrichtian representation in Appalachia

[little mauve]

Plus a cheeky leptoceratopsid

[sullen cairn]

further reason to believe in abelisaurids absolutely manhandling carcharodontosaurids

[ruby patio]

Illokesia manhandling Mapusaurus is clearly very real and present

[sullen cairn]

Exception to the rule

God must give his largest early Cretaceous abelisaurs his smallest early Cretaceous carchs

[storm heron]

Will be a nice addition to those Large Abelisaur's army.

[sullen cairn]

achillobator's a cool animal

[ruby patio]

There is a very large dentary fragment reffered to Timurlengia

[sullen cairn]

iirc the scalebars on that thing are obscenely grainy

[stiff osprey]

how to defeat very large Timurlengia: the [unit of measurement shown in scalebar] is actually a typo for [smaller unit]

[sullen cairn]

this will be timurlengia in 2018 trust

the top one isn't to scale
probably should mention that

[stiff osprey]

oh

when he said very large dentary i thought like, 8-9m, not 6

[sullen cairn]

i mean i don't hate it its just there is no way im taking the scalebars seriously considering how grainy that crap is

[barren compass]

How is the new achillo design looking?

[tough parcel]

Thethtehththethe Bisskety Giant.................................

[sullen cairn]

and that its scalebars for a literal 1/8th of a dentary

[stiff osprey]

I think achillo's the best model in the game at the moment

[sullen cairn]

i like its funny hat thing

[violet yacht]

How accurate is achillo tho? Genuinely curious. fluff on it head excluded.

[stiff osprey]

it looks like Utahraptor

[violet yacht]

that what i was thinking.

[slim needle]

It basically is a Utahraptor

[stiff osprey]

which is what an Achillobator should look like

[bright veldt]

I'm not a fan of it personally. It looks fine accuracy-wise but they made it absurdly huge and the 3 call animation is yikes.

[sullen cairn]

on the topic of timurlengia and now achillobator can we please have paleoart of achillo and the bayan shireh tyrannosauroid fighting i think that would be very cool plz

[sullen cairn]

wait like how big

[stiff osprey]

the bayan shireh carcharodontosaur intervenes and kills them both (there are teeth somewhere in cedar mountain therefore all big dromaeosaurs coexisted with carchs)

[bright veldt]

It's cerato-size. They literally made the wish of UtahraptorFan come true.

[sullen cairn]

touche

[slim needle]

Honestly this feels more like the Bissekty Giant than Achillobator

[sullen cairn]

the bissekty dromaeosaur is real

[stiff osprey]

considering the Thalassodromeus is twice its actual dimensions, a 7m achillo including tail feathers is not bad

[ruby patio]

(the holotype was like 3 meters)

[tough parcel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/878030287676801054/893491942317522974/biXnlZGR.gif?ex=65c62ab7&is=65b3b5b7&hm=0ec5418654012c7b213647128fbc8d83f15b9bf0c32f6f7973d50ddc16d3f54f&

[sullen cairn]

does he know?

[bright veldt]

It is when it also is a problem mechanically. PoT already suffers from like 5 mid-tier carnivores all the same size. They didnt need to further add to that issue but they did.

[ruby patio]

There are remains comparable to the Arctic "Troodon" material from hateg

[sullen cairn]

me when the alectrosaur-grade tyrannosaur is alectrosaur size as an adult (this is a paradigm shift in tyrannosauroid evolution)

[clever sable]

Yeah I agree here, it's less of how they are the same size and more how a lot of them do the same thing

[ruby patio]

(you fail to understand that this now means that alectrosaur grade tyrannosaurs can now be classified as alectrosaur grade tyrannosaurs)

[sullen cairn]

this is big

[elfin pulsar]

Here is a picture for size https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1006503232044019732/1201715918150049842/image-226.png?ex=65cad429&is=65b85f29&hm=1a2d79f010475d1497b2eaad487792a9ae2f21c92f813695cb54807733523a8f&

[sullen cairn]

achillobator?
-oh

[rose thorn]

Well, ig we can call Achillo at the very least decent?

[tough parcel]

THE

[bright veldt]

Oh yeah the actual model is fine. No complaints there.

[rose thorn]

I’m only using the plucked one because it shows the build better

[sullen cairn]

i get that like all the dinosaurs are kinda oversized next to the human model but like um um what

[stone moth]

Achillo gigachad

[bright veldt]

I expected it to be pachy metrics. Not whatever this is.

[stiff osprey]

scaling in POT is less of a science and more of a vibe

[tough parcel]

....

[brisk acorn]

💀

[ruby patio]

Lmao some museum tried to reconstruct Baby Bob with an Adult Tarbosaurus skull

[sullen cairn]

Achillobator is mid-late turonian...
...Bissetky giant is late turonian-santonian..
...bissekty giant is adult achillobator...

[ruby patio]

AND an Adult Tyrannosaurus skull.
Baby Bob is 2 years old

[stiff osprey]

an adult tarbosaurus and an adult tyrannosaurus? I didn't know baby bob has two heads

[tough parcel]

The Cretaceous Ghidorah Big Paleo doesn't want you to know about

[ruby patio]

The t.rex relative only three phylogentic trees across

[sullen cairn]

wait no other way around
achillobator is bissekty giant shrinking from old age....

[stiff osprey]

POT Sarcosuchus is 12 meters long... deinosuchus is an adult sarcosuchus?

[sullen cairn]

achillobator uberaptorensis

[stiff osprey]

you may point out they have no temporal overlap, however, there is a sarcosuchus species in south america, and things always last longer in south america, therefore it could've waited until the santonian to migrate north and become deinosuchus

[sullen cairn]

i finally have an excuse to post this here without getting beaten to death

[ruby patio]

Tyrannosaurus is simply an adult Moros that went on a spiritual discovery journey to asia and came back

[tough parcel]

Must've been some spiritual awakening goddamn 😭

[outer tusk]

POT trying to not oversizes things:

[sullen cairn]

"temporal overlap" means nothing

[tough parcel]

Erm the fossil record will never be complete and it won't tell us the first/last of every species so...............................

[ruby patio]

Bro unleashed their inner apex predator 🥹 🙏

[sullen cairn]

if you ignore a timespan comparable to the entirety of the cenezoic they're pretty much contemporaries

[outer tusk]

Yes, Utahraptor religion was utahceratops

[tough parcel]

SIGMA male Moros channel

[stiff osprey]

the time difference between utahceratops and utahraptor is roughly the same as the time difference between utahraptor and dilophosaurus. this means the first utahraptor fought dilophosaurus just like in the isle

[ruby patio]

Oh I see why I got that Timurlengia thing so large, I was scaling with GAT

[outer tusk]

Wait what ☠️

[rose thorn]

I knew it

[tough parcel]

This is so real guys

[sullen cairn]

tbf i think theres a good bit of wiggle room when we're talking about effectively the entirety of the cretaceous

[ruby patio]

Since Tyrannosaurus is closer temporally to humans than to Stegosaurus, we must be sister genera as both of us are hairless bipeds

[sullen cairn]

its so sad the bissektydromaeus is real

[stiff osprey]

I'll never forgive Maidment for naming a new Stegosaurus sp. from the cretaceous

[outer tusk]

This would be cool if you just remove the beak ngl

[stiff osprey]

That means Stegosaurus is no longer further from T.rex than T.rex is from the Iphone

[ruby patio]

Accoding to topology humans are Postosuchus

[sullen cairn]

just wait a few more million years
make an iphone 2
problem solved

[tough parcel]

Beaked non-avian raptor
Arnold (Last Name Here) as the size comp

Yeap, this is a alpha sigma chad male with massive social status and

[sullen cairn]

three months

[tough parcel]

10 months if you wanna be generous

[sullen cairn]

oh come on its not going to be ten months

[ruby patio]

Is this not Timurlengia material

[sullen cairn]

no we're not upsizing timurlengia

[ruby patio]

Wait what's been assigned to the big dromie now anyway

[sullen cairn]

phalange is dromaesauridae indet and ulughbegsaurus material is either dromaeosaurid or carch

[ruby patio]

Bigotry will not be tolerated in this safe space

[stiff osprey]

damn i was about to answer the question and then they exploded

[sullen cairn]

granted both the phalange and ulughbeg material kinda suck

[zenith fossil]

Why isn't achillobator creatable?

[sullen cairn]

sins of the fathers

[outer tusk]

Uh not builable, it's in an unreleased set

[marsh tapir]

@zenith fossil Hey there! This channel is exclusive to Paleo related discussions. Please head to #path-of-titans for game related issues.

[outer tusk]

God I love that character

[tough parcel]

TFP peak

Anyways, let’s get upsizing

[ruby patio]

Transformers prime 😍

[sullen cairn]

on the topic of scaling where are patagotitan measurements i need to scale ninjatitan

[outer tusk]

Scale up everything because it would be peak, trust

[sullen cairn]

i need like verts

[stiff osprey]

i have verts what do you want

[stiff osprey]

wow this is bad

[light osprey]

He consumes Tyrannosaurs

[stiff osprey]

the cervical vert tells me that there is no distinction between complete and incomplete measurements, otherwise ninjatitan's the shortest necked titanosaur of all time

[ruby patio]

Isn't this... small?

[sullen cairn]

its like 17-18m scaling by scapula because idk what patagotitan skeletal is even best

[tough parcel]

Like…including Brachytrach?

[stiff osprey]

yes, because brachytrach's not a titanosaur

[tough parcel]

Yes it is now

[ruby patio]

look its Baby Bob but adult

baby bob... head number two

[stiff osprey]

anyway patagotitan's caudals range from 26 to 36 cm, while its shortest cervical is 42 cm

[sullen cairn]

oh

[stiff osprey]

outlook not good for ninjatitan

[sullen cairn]

apparently its the last four cervicals
for ninja

why the hell am i calling a sauropod ninja

[stiff osprey]

the last four cervicals are 24 cm? damn my neck is longer than this thing's

[outer tusk]

☠️

A sauropod ninja, mhmm

[ruby patio]

A master of disguise

[stiff osprey]

being generous with the patagotitan scaling, i get 16-17m for ninja

[ruby patio]

18 meters of tonnage that you will not be able to see... until it hits you

[light osprey]

A true giant

[outer tusk]

Okay I need this ask this but for the validation of Oxalaia, could it be a different spinosaur all together or no solely not because it's known from very very fragmentary remains? ( This maybe imcldues Sig )

[stiff osprey]

having successfully convinced a Pycno that my Yunnano was a tree yesterday, i think this is possible

[light osprey]

Has anyone scaled Nullotitan?

[sullen cairn]

i never realized how much i hate this thing until i actually had to say its name a conversation

hmmm yes the ninjatitan

[stiff osprey]

I mean, it is a different spinosaur altogether, it's not synonymized with sigil or spino

[outer tusk]

What how flipping stupid do you have to be to think a dinosaur is a tree ☠️, then again this is POT

[sullen cairn]

i'm just going to go with 17m until i decide to try and crunch the numbers again to get a marginally more specific number

[light osprey]

Chances are he had on the bright White skin too

[compact leaf]

just wait until I name Paulbunyantitan

[ruby patio]

Bold of you to assume it isn't a tree

[outer tusk]

Oh wait really?

[light osprey]

Unironically (kind of) I’m surprised striking black and white dinosaurs or even something like an Okapi scheme aren’t more common

[sullen cairn]

of course it is every single cenomanian spinosaurin is spinosaurus aegypticus don't you remember

[stiff osprey]

No I had a black and brown skin and was standing next to an actual tree

[outer tusk]

Does your idle at least have animation where you at least resemble sort of a tree

[stiff osprey]

every maastrichtian tyrannosaurin is tyrannosaurus rex... i'm sorry nemegt sauropods but it had to be done

[ruby patio]

If I recall correctly there was an abstract some time ago about an antarctic dromeosaurid, can't seem to find it though. Does anyone have it?

[sullen cairn]

oh wait patagotitan literally has an appendicular osteology
am i stupid?

[ruby patio]

Lump bataar into Tyrannosaurus and split efremovi because efremovi may be campanian 😏

[stiff osprey]

appendicular yes, axial no, much to my sadness

[light osprey]

SVP thingy. Imperobator

[outer tusk]

Why patagotitan specifically again?

[sullen cairn]

because futalognkowhatsit doesn't have a scapula and its like earlier or something

[ruby patio]

Was there any more news on it after the abstract?

[outer tusk]

Is Imperobator like even real, cause iicr it's know from a simgle toe bone but again I don't want to question just yet of animal's validation

[stiff osprey]

its remains are decent, for an antarctic animal at least

[ruby patio]

Dromeosaur toe bones tend to be somewhat distinctive

[light osprey]

specimen is a foot
no ginglymoid distal metatarsal II
must be a Dromaeosaur

[outer tusk]

Yeah my bad I usually don't get behind animals known from feet remains

[stiff osprey]

holy crap lois 1 minute slowmode

achillobator must be popular

[sullen cairn]

anyone vividly remember rickraptor's "antarctoraptor" deviantart posts

[light osprey]

Oh no sub arcto-metatarsaly for a supposed Unenlagiine. Gotta love it

[outer tusk]

Yes

[stiff osprey]

according to 15 year old me rickraptor is the best spec evo writer

[outer tusk]

This is so true, just keep this one at 20 seconds at least

[ruby patio]

Hey table how did you get Timurlengia so small, I keep getting 8.5 meters

[light osprey]

I hope the maxilla material is ended up being a referral, cause I’m not seeing very Dromaeosaur-y characters in impero’s foot

[stiff osprey]

it is currently a tetanuran indet., which is way lamer than dromaeosaur with no claw

[light osprey]

Option 3: mysterious Gondwana Avialans

[stiff osprey]

woah.... balaur 2...

[ruby patio]

Maybe Imperobator is a megaraptoran?

[light osprey]

I meeean. Apparently they share a few characters according to the description

[west coral]

this confirms the hell creek carcharodontosaur

[light osprey]

Appendicular fusion
turn it into a basal Avialan

[outer tusk]

I know this been discussed many of times but specifically regarding to Deinosuchus again is 7.2t a okay estimate for hatcheri which maybe is Rugosus

[sullen cairn]

you might be able to get it a bit more around 6m if you're nice to it

maybe just under 7m at the absolute most

although i'd imagine gauging something's size from "projected dentary morphology" isn't the best grounds for any form of real upsize in the first place

[mental pond]

Hiya

[ruby patio]

projected dentary morphology is the best way to conveniently upsize animals (1.05 meter Dryptosaurus skull)

[sullen cairn]

[stiff osprey]

are there like, adult alectrosaurs you can scale it off of

[sullen cairn]

jinbeisaurus maybe

[sullen cairn]

bajada colorada and co find its actually normal sized animal

[stiff osprey]

ninjatitan is that early? christ
i guess that makes 1 interesting feature besides its name

[sullen cairn]

direct evidence of competitive displacement of diplodocids and megalosaurids by titanosaurs

oh god i'm gonna have to scale those megalosaur teeth won't i

[stiff osprey]

if i had a nickel for every time a diplodocoid lineage shrank in order to survive into the cretaceous i'd have three nickels. which isn't a lot but sincerely f*ck you maraapunisaurus

[sullen cairn]

why

oh wait even better the only confirmed subadult material is mll-pv-014 which is this

[stiff osprey]

are you just doing the entire early cretaceous of south america

[sullen cairn]

just bajada colorada and mulichinco

[stiff osprey]

same thing really

[sullen cairn]

romualdo and cerro barcino sobbing
actually saying that there's not much in cerro barcino but unlike the others it has taxa people actually acknowledge exist

wow this thing is even more stupider than i thought

[light osprey]

Why can’t table waste his time scaling irrelevant Maastrichtian fms

[sullen cairn]

i already scaled like every maastrichtian abelisaur
you people can't be happy with anything

[stiff osprey]

i was going to make a la colonia chart but when i saw the titanosaur was small i changed my mind

[light osprey]

Think of the mammals and shtuff 🙏

[sullen cairn]

"wow the la colonia abelisaur is a mostly complete articulated skeleton, i sure hope they figured more than a phalange and partial maxilla!"

[stiff osprey]

it's only funny if the only viable prey item is one that dwarfs carnotaurus
la colonia has much to learn from mata amarilla/pari aike/cerro fortaleza/whatever its name is today

[ruby patio]

Does Spinosaurus preserve an ulna or radius

[light osprey]

You can be the first person to scale Chubutinectes too

[sullen cairn]

i hope the la colonia hadrosaur ends up being cool

[stiff osprey]

an ulna, but it's undescribed
i swear i visited like four different websites while waiting for the one minute slowmode to end so i could type this

[ruby patio]

Oh unlucky, what about all those arm pictures that are circulating online?

[light osprey]

I don’t think it’s possible to make the austrokritosaurs cool

[stiff osprey]

Average Morrocan privately owned fossil (composite of different sized individuals and possibly multiple species)

[ruby patio]

FPDM skull vibes

[dry zealot]

After looking into it well enough, this thing is really cerato sized. If this thing was as big as it is in this game but in real life? There is no way that its mass would be under 900kg..

[bright veldt]

Its nearly as big as Maip its absurd

[light osprey]

The real Megaraptor….

[ruby patio]

Big ass "Kryptops" tooth

[dry zealot]

laughs at bissekty - utah

[crude latch]

“Utah” 💀

[dry zealot]

?

[crude latch]

Were you calling that Utah?

[dry zealot]

no

[kindred hatch]

I mean I think the new dino resembles the Utah mod pretty closely. That's just my opinion though

[stiff osprey]

Yeah they're basically the same animal

[dry zealot]

Its laughing at bissekty and utah, its not a Utah obviously but might as well be at this point seeing how massive it is (even then it'd be almost twice the size of normal utah imo. utah is huge but not like THAT huge)

[crude latch]

a h

[tiny holly]

iirc utah's roughly similar height wise to a polar bear, its shoulders/hips would have been about the same height as our shoulders. Which is kinda terrifying

[bright veldt]

Not quite true. A utah would look you in the eye but it's firmly shorter through most of the body

[warped peak]

I'll give them at peast a pass on this because the sheer size makes it a LOT easier to fight, especially since it can be hit by almost everything while pounced

[serene mist]

whats bissekty

[warped peak]

A possible giant dromaeosaur identified from a single toe bone

[dry zealot]

Not even sure if bissekty is even bigger than Utah there's so little to go off of

[bright veldt]

It's a toebone. It don't mean jack.

[wintry path]

either it has really big feet or it is reallt big

[storm heron]

Just claim individual variation and you will be fine.

[arctic crane]

What an interesting interpretation

[white matrix]

Please fix this. I cannot with how big it is. (Utah for comparison.)

[dry zealot]

It is obvious that the game does not use the editable unreal engine square as a metric system. Iggy looks well sized yes but honestly, rocks and trees are ginormous all around too.

That argument works for just about any oversizing that is done ^

except this one this one is pretty crazy xD, it is about +200% larger than the actual Achillobator, not 30%, not 50%, 200% -- might even be more

I get it, as game developers they do want their own playable to fit a certain niche and playstyle, all respect to it but being close in size to the real creature? This is one is the furthest away, way worse than Bars and EO by a longshot in their oversizing

[white matrix]

YES. When I saw how big it was I said… “this isn’t right.” Everything in PoT is funny with sizing but this is too much imo.

[spice rune]

yo

[grim ether]

Hello

[light oxide]

Thalassodromeus would like to have a word:

Also, I feel like the devs oversized Achillobator this much to make it more distinct from the other raptors — especially since it's meant to be the "mob boss" of the smaller raptors and with Laten already basically near IRL Achillo's size . . . Yeah . . .

[silk radish]

Fun Fact:

Laten Isn’t real

[wintry path]

invalid fetus

[light oxide]

Yep. It's now Stenonychosaurus.

You mean genus, goose?

[wintry path]

nanotyrannus becoming valid

[wintry path]

No. Little fetus baby dont deserve genus title

[heady thunder]

It also affects gameplay, achillo now doesnt play like the raptors at all just from the model size alone, it cant do what the raptors can.

Anyway, Rex skeletal vs Microraptor skeletal

[silk radish]

NANOTYRANNUS SHALL BE NO MORE!!! 🗣️🔥💯

[real swan]

Please remain on topic for this channel

[sullen cairn]

i like that larramendi's supposed largest Pilmatueia vert in addition to being an incredibly fragmentary neural arch is like half the size of the overlapping elements of the only other preserved dorsal

[civic tulip]

Omg, Achillobator is huge

[shell stone]

😭

[frosty cedar]

Christ almighty it's big.

Certified Path of Titans moment.

[sullen cairn]

dicraeosaurus coming in clutch for pilmatueia scaling

consider my whelms unsatiated

largest you can get it seems to be with the cervicals

[heady thunder]

Thats a warcrime in skeletal format

[lavish frigate]

I read this as “dicraeosaurus coming to church for pilmatueia scaling”

[stiff osprey]

pilmatueia does sound like the name of a religious ritual

[sullen cairn]

i can't spell pilmatueia

[compact leaf]

I can't spell it but it's a fun name to say

[meager spindle]

We shall see 😈

[silver canopy]

I need permian fungi taxa give pls

[somber tartan]

Question, what fossils of achillobator do we have and are there any pics

[bright veldt]

Current best skeletal of Achillobator tmk

[sullen cairn]

just to make sure i'm not screwing something up here but a 3.5cm megalosaur tooth would belong to a pretty small animal right

[west coral]

yeah

[meager spindle]

At least it isn't in the same situation as Dakotaraptor

Pray for this guy to be truly valid 😔🙏

[velvet burrow]

Too bad, he's a turtle now 🐢 /j

[sullen cairn]

truly one of the biotas of all time

[outer tusk]

so what are all the aniamls in order from biggest to smallest

[sullen cairn]

abelisauroidea indet megalosauridae inet lajasvenator leinkupal abelisauridae indet bajadasaurus pilmatueia ninjatitan

[stiff osprey]

wow ninjatitan is really small and also bipedal

[sullen cairn]

Just like ninjas…

[stiff osprey]

I need to make a chart of something should I do udurchukan, kirkwood or djadochta

[west coral]

kirkwood and udurchukan are hard choices

[sullen cairn]

wow a 6.8cm metacarpal what will the benevolent random do

actually i'm torn because kirkwood has this which is also very funny

[stiff osprey]

tooth not diagnosable to family level
make it megalosaurid
profit

[light osprey]

Udurchukan I wonder if there’s any Titanosaur material to scale

[honest wave]

realest thing ever said

[stiff osprey]

i'm impressed, the udurchukan formation wiki page probably has the highest number of unsourced faunal claims i've ever seen

[sullen cairn]

bajada colorada was surprisingly pretty normal if we ignore the unsourced deinonychosaur

[stiff osprey]

...paleobiodb has 3 sources for udurchukan, one of them is this

[west coral]

Amur tyrannosaur the mightiest ever

[stiff osprey]

the second source i haven't looked at but the third source is this

impressive how they just made this formation up. i'm going to do kirtwood

[compact leaf]

kirkwood has a totally definitely 25m brachiosaurid too

it is a brachiosaurid and it is big btw it’s just also only known from like 2 vertebrae, but brick scaled it to 25m so I’m going with that

[wintry path]

tarbosaurus

[light osprey]

Found most of the Udurchukan stuff. Lots of paywalls

[light osprey]

Oh but I’ve bypassed yippee

[stiff osprey]

TIL Kirkwood has a very large goniopholidid. Like half of Deinosuchus's length

well, I don't know if it is a goniopholidid, but that's the most abundant and largest non-eusuchian croc around, so probably is

[sullen cairn]

i wonder if i can save leinkupal's life because the dorsal seems to be not that tiny
although idk if all the verts are even one individual

galeamopus conveniently doesn't have a complete D2 to scale with

[indigo grove]

favorite crocodylomorph?

[crude latch]

SIMOSUCHUS

(And Dako)

[west coral]

save him, be a hero

[wintry path]

allodaposuchus looks so cool

[stiff osprey]

hard pick, but i think i'll say Pakasuchus

[wintry path]

protosuchus is peak tho

[indigo grove]

favorite one of these things

[outer tusk]

this size comparion is bad so no reponse

[stiff osprey]

this image is wild they took shonisaurus, scaled it to the length of sikkaniensis, and labeled it pacificus

[outer tusk]

random may I ask if there was a crocodilian that was somehow larger than deinosuchus what woudl it's weight limit be as a lot of animals do ( how it make sense )

[stiff osprey]

if it was fully aquatic then it probably could exceed Deinosuchus size, but we have many fully aquatic crocodylomorphs and they never got close to Deino's size so maybe not

[alpine island]

Make up some random Metriorhynchus vertebrae and say you can scale it to 20 tons

[light osprey]

Allodaposuchus mentioned 💯 💯 🗣️ 🔥

[lavish frigate]

This is painful. Mosas fluke……

[outer tusk]

also regarding megalodon again so you said 127t is a fine esimate for a max megalodon?

[wintry path]

he’s so silly

[indigo grove]

ONG I CRINGED SO HARD LMFAO

[lavish frigate]

Why is its fluke so small

[light osprey]

http://repository.geologyscience.ru/bitstream/handle/123456789/39426/Tuma_04.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y intrigued

[sullen cairn]

is there a lore reason i got the same size scaling with all the overlapping elements of dicraeosaurus and galeamopus respectively

[sonic pendant]

You know him, you love him, sarco
Also 4 mutual servers

[sullen cairn]

crap i forgot the actual important part

[stiff osprey]

leink continues to be screwed

[crude latch]

No, find a better chart. This is nasty

[sullen cairn]

now i'm torn between if i'm supposed to consider these all one individual because larramendi calling the thing a partial skeleton and franoys labelling them all as coll. would seem to imply so but also like i don't know if that's ever actually said anywhere

and i need to find a diplodocid with actual dorsal and caudal measurements

sauropods are stupid

[light osprey]

Do we have any good visual ideas of the size of some of the Early Cretaceous Glacial systems we have direct evidence of?

[sullen cairn]

why do all of us only talk in the same five minute intervals

are we senile or something?

[stiff osprey]

Kirkwood formation

[little mauve]

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08120099.2019.1590457 should be a figure in here

[sullen cairn]

me when i'm in a dying competition and my opponent is 20% of sauropods

[light osprey]

This it?

Seems like a really big system

[little mauve]

Yep that's it, didn't read the whole paper but yeah it does seem big

[light osprey]

Surely perennial at that size too right

[little mauve]

Glaciers are by definition perennial

[light osprey]

Oh silly me

I wonder what modern glacial systems bear resemblance in form/size

[little mauve]

Paper mentions the Great Glacier in modern BC Canada

But on a much larger scale

[light osprey]

Well definitely larger than that Piedmont. But a Piedmont contributes to a huge icefield. Bigger than what the figure shows I think

[sullen cairn]

thank god i found the stupid diplodocus vert measurements

its getting increasingly annoying that all these 100 page pdfs keep freezing chrome every five minutes and i need to scroll back to find the stupid table after i reopen my tabs each time

[tough parcel]

I know your sins

[sullen cairn]

alright i think i've been able to get leinkupal to a point where its >10m no matter how you slice it

[light osprey]

PBDB shenanigans again, relatively old reports of Ceratopsids from Campanian-Maastrichtian deposits in Kazakhstan

[sullen cairn]

i'm 90% sure i mentioned those on paleomedia or something a couple weeks ago

nvm i forgot where i said it

[light osprey]

lol

Is it real or…. A farce

[sullen cairn]

afaik none of its actually described

[light osprey]

That seems kind of real

[sullen cairn]

and the whole redating from santonian-early campanian to campanian-maastrictian seems kinda iffy

[light osprey]

If only Kakanaut wasn’t lame and preserved diagnostic fossils

[sullen cairn]

i think i can live with this being the absolute largest i'm getting leinkupal

[light osprey]

The Abelisaur is merely fodder at this stage of size

[sullen cairn]

it also shrinks a bit if you consider the holotype and paratype the same individual so ha

[heady thunder]

He did know

[wintry path]

what if i say it isnt 10m

[snow python]

Did dilo had a claw on its fourth finger?

[serene moat]

Kodiak and polar bear victim

[tacit pine]

faaax

[tough parcel]

Bro chose two of the largest terrestrial carnivores alive today and said it'd kill a mid-sized theropod 😭

[tough parcel]

No, most archosaurs have the first 3 claws and then the last 2 aren't

[serene moat]

I'm a dilo hater so I had to 😭

[sudden wind]

How the hell can you be a Dilo hater

[frozen basin]

L

[warped peak]

Here's a place who would enjoy seeing how damn robust Trike's pelvis is

[ancient crystal]

Gotta keep the rexes from severing your spine somehow

[warped peak]

Indeed

People don't give enough credit to how sturdily built it really is

[tough parcel]

Didn’t stop em anyways

[light osprey]

The slow and dimwitted Ceratopsians. rex was merciful in comparison to its rambunctious Asian counterpart who quickly put an end to their antics

[nocturne merlin]

so like did rexes teeth fall out like gators? it would be pretty wearing on them with that bite force and diet

[bright veldt]

Basically all dinosaurs regularly lost and regrew teeth throughout their lives

[snow python]

Which one is more accurate?

[heady thunder]

Idk jack about accuracy, but the second one has the cooler head

[stiff osprey]

both good

[woeful falcon]

Heh. Left definitely better. 😈

[light osprey]

The crest is indeed more satisfying

[sullen cairn]

i'm leaving leinkupal like this until i have an excuse to figure out how many individuals comprise the material

[honest wave]

I think I said like months ago I’d be adding passeriformes to my updated theropoda cladogram but I definitely did not completely forget to do that

So hopefully in the coming weeks, if I have time of course, I will be making some new progress on it.

[sullen cairn]

[west coral]

table is that English

[sullen cairn]

Holy crap Lois new dacentrurus skeletal

[honest wave]

i can do it

if i can do every non-passeriform theropod then i can finish the job

[hallow spear]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1026228775257640961/1202399967449190543/image.png?ex=65cd513b&is=65badc3b&hm=b4de1d2b6b078c164d915cecc00e269681a81ccf153e0426ce33fd8f37c0f89b&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[outer tusk]

so how big Dacenturus again?

[hallow spear]

In length?

[outer tusk]

length and mass

[hallow spear]

Ill be gding it tomorrow

[hallow spear]

9.1m

[outer tusk]

okay

[pastel scroll]

I would say 2nd one

[keen forum]

neck

[trim sandal]

guys i love the new achillo i was today with a pack of 5 we had hunting strats 1 on each side of the animel and the others follow behind it

[stiff osprey]

Lion activities

[trim sandal]

fr

ngl it was epic asf running stratigectly with the boys hunting a lamby phrew the woods

[gilded swallow]

I’m from Alaska.. Cordova, our glaciers there have melted tremendously since I was a kid. Extremely sad, yet I cannot wait to dig in the silt and rocks eventually

[zealous summit]

THE LION OF THE JURASSIC

[tacit chasm]

Douse any one know when a new herb will be add and what it will be

[wintry path]

its finally out

https://doi.org/10.1080/10420940.2024.2307069

[mossy anchor]

if i were to want to become a paleontologist, what steps should i take before applying to a job that would offer courses? i dont really know how the whole business works but i truly want to get into it

[tough parcel]

A) Tf is your pfp
B) AFAIK you need to go for courses first (Bio-Geo are the recommended) then internship then you can start jobbing

[mossy anchor]

A) my pfp is my little doggy, his name is orgalorg ❤️
B) I’m looking at different colleges that have undergraduate and graduate programs for geology. So would that be a good start for courses?
C) ty :)

[compact leaf]

so you have to go for a bachelors first, some sort of geology or bio depending on what you want to do, and then you go to grad school for paleo

grad school is kind of a different beast so it’s best to look into that as well but in paleo you can skip over the masters and go straight to phd, while you’re earning your phd it kind of functions like you’re in an internship

[mossy anchor]

this might be a stupid question because its literally just college, but im looking at the university of colorado, and it has minor, major, and graduate programs. so would minor be bachelors, and major be phd? also the school doesnt seem to offer paleontology, but it does offer geology. should i look at other schools?

[ancient crystal]

Minors aren't your primary degree, they're something you study alongside your major

For example, I am a marine science major looking to minor in english

English isn't my main goal, I don't want to be an author or professor necessarily, but its something I'm interested in and want to further my education in. Thats really all a minor is

As for your other question, I'm not sure if you can take undergrad programs in paleontology. At least my school doesn't do that, afaik you study as a geoscience major and then focus on paleontology as a graduate student

[compact leaf]

paleo is only a graduate program

[compact leaf]

your major is what you’re getting your bachelors in, the masters and phd are a grad school thing

[grand mural]

Both

[mossy anchor]

Alright, so in that case I’ll take geology as my major bachelors degree. I’ll try to find bio-geology, if any school offers the program

Ty guys!

[honest wave]

I hope this goes well for you! I took the paleo track at my college and it was wonderful. It’s a great way to meet notable paleontologists and have a chance to actually discuss the current sciences with them.

Even if it doesn’t turn out to go anywhere, it’s still a great experience. The one I took even had a month long trip to excavate from a multiple-burial site of triceratops in Hell Creek.

And I can confirm you’ll want to do a mix of biology and geology going in. Some folks will say to major in geo, but Carr recommended to me that I do bio instead. It also probably depends on what you want to specialize in within paleo

[compact leaf]

yeah what you specialize in definitely has an impact, I’m doing wildlife bio/evolutionary bio first before moving on to paleo

[honest wave]

Evolutionary biology is definitely the big one, and you’ll want to take some more specialized anatomy courses if they are available.

[compact leaf]

comparative anatomy is a really good one for anyone going into paleo

[honest wave]

If you want to be one of those folks using fancy microscopes to determine pigmentation in extremely well-preserved fossils, you’d probably want to get into cellular biology and physics

As well as organic chemistry

[compact leaf]

I work in a cancer micro lab, considered molecular paleo after talking to someone in it but I just have very little patience for non cancer micro lol

[honest wave]

Ok this has just been floating around in my brain and I need to say something

Idk how much personal stuff there is on Thomas Carr available to people, but man that guy is something. Every day he’d come in wearing this red velvet tailcoat and leather shoes.

He looked like he was trying to evoke the classical era, even with his ponytail.

Also he was like, weirdly intense? When I had first started he had me sit down in his office and talked to me about whether I wanted to do paleontology as if I was joining the army. Otherwise he was super reserved.

Until you saw him interacting with students he’d known for longer, in which he was crazy casual and fun?

Real interesting guy, pretty swag.

[ocean drum]

Man y'all in America are lucky. here in Canada we have to go to university to become a paleontologist (Uni is significantly harder to get into and in general)

[honest wave]

No this was in college. And yeah you still have to go through crazy schooling

For context since this is kinda out of nowhere, he was head of the paleo track at the college I went to. He also was one of the regular biology professors.

I didn’t have him as a bio professor though, I think the pressure would’ve killed me if I had the same professor for two different topics that were so important to me.

[ocean drum]

That's why I said y'all are lucky

Uni is wayy more difficult both to get into and the work at least in Canada

[honest wave]

Ah, fair enough

Although the money side of things is still hellish agony. You’re pretty much screwed for life if you get higher education nowadays.

[ocean drum]

pretty much

unless you find something extraordinary and a museum is willing to buy it for good money

[honest wave]

Yeah, but the odds of that are low. Plus you’d have to stay afloat in regards to paying loans in the meantime.

[mossy anchor]

Tysm for the kind wishes! So biology and geology are both good, noted. I’m thinking of going to University of Colorado, so I’ll see if they have all the courses you guys mentioned.
For what role in paleontology I want, I don’t entirely know, I’m not super knowledgable on what roles there are. But from what I do understand, I would love to either go out on excavations and digging up fossils, or being in a lab and preparing the fossils. Oh and maybe inspecting the fossils to understand what species they belonged to

[ocean drum]

And funded digs

[ocean drum]

Try to major in bio or geo based on what type of paleontologist you want to be

[honest wave]

Honestly don’t worry too much about knowing the paths you want to take within things yet, you’ll get a better idea of that later on. Colorado is a great choice btw! I’m sure you know this already, but you’d be right near Morrison. The fossil sites there are some of the most beautiful and stunning I’ve seen, highly recommend it.

[mossy anchor]

Thats why I want to go, it’s smack dab in the west, where a lot of fossils are preserved. The Morrison formation is my favourite formation ever, so it’d honestly be a dream come true

Also it just seems like a great school from the research I’ve done

[ocean drum]

btw if you can getting a mentor is a massive help

[honest wave]

You’d be going to colorado-boulder, yeah? That was one of my dream schools tbh.

[mossy anchor]

Oh a mentor? For what specifically? Choosing classes, or doing classes?

[mossy anchor]

Yeah lol thats what i was looking at actually, thats pretty cool

[ocean drum]

I don't know the specifics but try to get one based on what you want to do

[honest wave]

Usually an already established paleontologist if I understand correctly. Thomas Carr was the one I studied under.

[mossy anchor]

Ohh ok, ty both of you.
Thomas Carr seems really cool from what I’ve heard from you. What college does he work at?

[honest wave]

Carthage College in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Pretty far from Colorado unfortunately.

But you would be real close to the famous Field Museum, which is a wonderful place. Plus the Kenosha harbor has several nice museums of its own.

[mossy anchor]

I’ll check it out still. It’s wayyy better to have multiple options

[honest wave]

I gotta go now, since my lunch break is over. I’d love to talk later though! Btw Boulder is lovely. I used to live near there and I plan to go back someday.

[mossy anchor]

The one in chicago? Going there is on my bucket list so I can see Sue and Fleshy

[ocean drum]

Tbh I don't even know what ima do for being a paleontologist but i still have 6 years bare minimum

[mossy anchor]

Oh, well have a good day! I really do appreciate all the advice, it means a lot

[mossy anchor]

Well, good luck on your journey too, I think we’ll both make it

[ocean drum]

Same to you

[delicate pelican]

is there actual evidence to brontosaurus and apatosaurus having neck spikes or is it just speculation or artistic liberties? im seeing many depictions with them having those spikes

[bright veldt]

speculation

[lavish frigate]

Punishment

[sullen cairn]

what did gsp mean by this?

[light osprey]

Why not just lump all of Triceratopsini into the genus

[rose thorn]

Because no

[marsh tapir]

@vernal hornet Hey there! This channel is dedicated solely to Paleo related discussions. If you'd like to discuss gameplay mechanics, please utilize the #path-of-titans channel. You can check what content is appropriate to what channel via it's pinned messages. Thank you!

[compact leaf]

we should it would be funny

[light osprey]

It would be so awesome, it would be so cool

[kindred night]

As a fellow Carthage paleo alumn I'm curious what year you graduated? Might know each other.

[outer tusk]

Guys can 12.4t megalodon be considered an average or an adult ( just want to still know the answer to this )

[bright veldt]

The smallest adult megalodon are 13-14 meters and 35 tons or so I think? 15-16m and 50 tons seems pretty apt for average.

[outer tusk]

okay I sadly probably can't be about to reason with my friend here as he finds megalodon "overrated" because of how big it is

[ancient crystal]

Second largest animal known to ever live on earth and largest shark ever equates to "its just a big shark, nothing special"

Which is like, the most ridiculous sentiment I have ever heard

[outer tusk]

^

[sullen cairn]

fun fact
according to gsp rajasaurus is 120% the size of magnapaulia

[ancient crystal]

Tbh, the only paper I trust for meg size is Perez et al. Which is where the 20 meter estimates come from most recently afaik

It uses a more reliable scaling method than literally every other meg paper since 2002 and finds a maximum length of around 20 meters. Which isn't far fetched when you consider the vertebral column we have belongs to like a 16m individual

[honest wave]

Yes! It’s wonderful. I don’t actually know what you mean by Fleshy, but they have a spinosaurus named Sobek and a patagotitan named Maximo that are absolutely breath-taking

[honest wave]

Given the small size of the paleo track there I’m not quite comfortable giving information that specific since it could narrow down my identity quite easily. I will say that have actually paused college for the time being, however, so I have not graduated yet.

It was getting a bit too expensive and I didn’t feel mature enough to jump head-first into such an intensive field.

So for now I am using the knowledge I gained and building the relevant skills outside college as a hobby

[nocturne cairn]

Fleshy is the rex statue based on Sue, it isn't at the Field Museum atm but it was there first

this one

[honest wave]

Ohhhh, makes sense. Yeah I did miss its visit.

I didn’t actually realize the name was Fleshy lol, very cute

[nocturne cairn]

i think fleshy might be a nickname, like how people called the Spino Swimbo

[honest wave]

Also makes sense

I do think I prefer Sobek for the spino, given the whole Egyptian crocodile god thing

[nocturne cairn]

yeah Sobek is a better name, Swimbo is just funny

I still haven't seen it yet, wasn't able to go over the summer when it was first put in

[honest wave]

It’s magnificent, to put it lightly. I was there for the unveiling and had a hard time holding back tears of nerdy joy.

[nocturne cairn]

it was cool to see the pics when it was still basically on the ground for sure, hopefully i'll have the time to go and see it

[honest wave]

Having it suspended low over the lobby gives a fantastic sense of how spectacular of an animal it was, as well as a great chance to point out little bits of its anatomy

[honest wave]

I hope you do as well. Even if the Field didn’t have Sue, Maximo, and the wonderful pterosaur models, Sobek would be reason alone to visit.

[mossy anchor]

Oh lol, doesnt the field museum have the super accurate live sized model of sue? And people call it fleshy because it has “flesh” from what ive heard

[honest wave]

It was a traveling exhibit that was only at the Field for a short while. Thankfully, there are numerous permanent life-sized models of equal quality throughout the museum. These models include rhamphorynchus, pteranodon (although they follow the classification of geosternbergia), and an absolutely terrifying quetzelcoatlus.

It does still have a wonderful exhibit dedicated to Sue, including a short show that goes through the numerous injuries preserved in her skeleton.

[compact leaf]

their brachiosaurus mount is something I have to see every trip I make, even if I have to walk all the way around the outside of the building

[honest wave]

I thought it was gone?

If I remember correctly, it's at the airport now

[compact leaf]

nope there’s two, one there one at the airport

the original got moved the one at the museum is made of steel now, it sits at the northwest corner

[honest wave]

Wasn't it so weathered they had to take it down?

[compact leaf]

huh, that’s like right after I was there too

[honest wave]

I do know there's another at O'hare at least

[compact leaf]

well that’s a damn shame

that actually makes me sad there isn’t a close place to see brachiosaurus now

[lavish frigate]

Wait…..so that brachi was fake right……I’d assume so if they chucked it into a bunch of dumpsters

[compact leaf]

yeah we have no brachi skeletons actually on display only casts

the holotype is the most complete (and is a subadult) but it’s a very rare dinosaur to find fossils from, there’s only one partial skull that may not be fully grown either

[lavish frigate]

How big is adult brachi projected to be?

[compact leaf]

27ish meters long, I can’t remember the tonnage

you can get 28m but it’s iffier and based of real fragmentary stuff

[mossy anchor]

WHAT?? Nooooo, I wanted to see her so bad 😭
Is she still on exhibit anywhere else?

[white matrix]

Ngl, cerato destroys Para, due to Para being a herbivore

[outer tusk]

this is so true guys like so true TRUST!!!

[honest wave]

famously, all herbivorous animals just roll over and accept death, especially if their predator is several times smaller than themselves

the allosaurus that died from a thagomizer to the crotch actually just happened to fall on the already dead stegosaurus's tail

interestingly, this is a common phenomenon reported by walk-in emergency patients at hospitals, where they report to have found objects in strange bodily locations after simply falling on them

[tough parcel]

Clash of the Dinosaurs.........

[honest wave]

||mods please dont kill me lmao||

[tough parcel]

It's funny, it would be an actual war crime

[outer tusk]

Mods kill em

[tepid grotto]

Did indoraptor and indominus rex exist? Can someone provide a up- to date skeletal reconstruction?

they are my fav dinos but i cant seem to find much paleontology studies on them

[sullen cairn]

indoraptor and indominus skeletals

[outer tusk]

If spinosaurus did somehow survived to the modern day would the amazom rainforest be a suitable environment for it thrive in long enough to be successful?

@tepid grotto Indom and Indo!!!!

[tough parcel]

None of these have massive arms

[outer tusk]

they do you just gonna IMAGINE

[tepid grotto]

lmfao i was trolling but ty, this is actually very interesting

[tough parcel]

I think they’re also playing with you haha

[sullen cairn]

we are not.

[tough parcel]

Oh :(

[sullen cairn]

we take our paleo chatting very seriously here

[tough parcel]

The 20t American spinosaur…

[junior dawn]

the 20t american

[gaunt stone]

The 20t

[sullen cairn]

did we ever do damage control for the arizonaspinus containment breach or is that like still out there

[tough parcel]

Uhh it’s…it’s just out there now, yea

[compact leaf]

the what now?

this sounds vaguely familiar

[stiff osprey]

The world's first north american spinosaur

[warped peak]

So what exactly were Megalosaurs built for?

Abelisaurs wrestled, Allosaurs bleed and Grapple, Tyrannosaurus crushed, Spino slashed, but Megalo and Torvo don't seem to really have much in terms of adaptation outside of standard theropod

[storm heron]

Wrestling, bleeding, grappling, "crushing", slashing, are all possible hunting methods that most predatory Theropods did.

[warped peak]

Indeed, but most lines have specializations of some form into one or another

Not pointing any fingers, but Carno ain't really slashing as good as a raptor

[stiff osprey]

Megalosaurs were pretty much doing what the allosaurs were doing

Torvosaurus has teeth similar in size and shape to carcharodontosaurids, I'd say even more knifelike. Can't get a better bleeder than that

[storm heron]

I thought the most derived Carcharadontosaurids had more blade like teeth than other Theropods?

[stiff osprey]

They did, yes. But Torvosaurus isn't a normal theropod

[crude latch]

That’s because torvosaurus is a FROG

[storm heron]

Ah,

[ruby patio]

Torvosaurus also has a good inch on Carch teeth in the size category

[serene moat]

Right whale and fin whale???

[west coral]

I sure do love placenamesaurus

[stiff osprey]

The largest right whale weighed 100 t, the largest fin whale weighed 81 t with unconfirmed reports of up to 112 t. The largest estimate for megalodon is 127 t

[ruby patio]

What about blue whale subspecies

[serene moat]

and the average Is 50?

How did meg even go extinct? 💀

[bright veldt]

Start of the ice age tanked its preybase

[lean egret]

Are there any inaccuracies with the PoT Achillo? Other than the ridiculous size

[bright veldt]

Not really

[lean egret]

What about the scaly feathers

[lean egret]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1202899821430833162/1202901798160039976/IMG_4610.png?ex=65cf2499&is=65bcaf99&hm=7937f4f28e33b9067a9e97a417ef6432b0175c46a03fc467482365cb51262196&

I can’t be the only one who noticed this

[woeful falcon]

The feather textures also have cracks in them like they're made of stone but I wouldn't count that as an inaccuracy.

[lean egret]

PoT textures are some of their weakest points ngl

[white matrix]

Yea that is very true

[scenic flame]

That's a pretty tiny nitpick

[lean egret]

Which one

[scenic flame]

Texture

[lean egret]

Well aside from the general look of the textures there are also some screw ups like some dino’s teeth having scales

[ancient crystal]

Nah, they just need to brush more

[outer tusk]

well

[lean egret]

This is a joke right lol

[outer tusk]

Why would it be a joke?

[light osprey]

Teeth are modified scales, therefore Dinosaurs had scaled teeth

[outer tusk]

Also like Vividsky said anything besides it's achillo size are just personally nitpicks

[lean egret]

This means that having scaly teeth makes sense? (Replying to you both)

[light osprey]

No
I was being satirical

[lean egret]

It’s very clearly just the modeler using the scale brush on the whole dino, the inside of the mouths have scales too in some

[tiny holly]

You'd have to be looking incredibly closely to even notice that, and that's a degree of nitpicking over models that kind of isn't worth it after a certain point

also in regards to the face on achillo, i feel like that's meant to be wrinkles + scales, like a lightly scaled wrinkly skin sort of texture. Not feathers over top

[tiny holly]

In fact, I'm curious what models you've actually noticed this on? It got me interested to check and as far as I've been able to see so far, teeth in PoT models are usually either untextured or have a subtle vertical grain

[honest wave]

Just a heads up, this talk may be better for #path-of-titans

[lean egret]

Its not very visible on photo but zoom in in game you can very clearly see it’s a brush issue, it’s the same texture as the feathers overlayed on scales

[snow python]

Is Ostafrikasaurus a ceratosaur?

[iron halo]

Isn't osta known from like 1 tooth

[small kindle]

My trilobites just arrived!

Got a goofy looking one (Flexicalymene) and a dead family of 3 (Gerastos)!!!

[last iron]

It’s known from 2 teeth lmao

[last iron]

We really don’t know what it is because it’s so fragmentary but it’s thought to be a Ceratosaur, a Megaraptorian, or a Spinosaurid

[snow python]

How big were Lajasvenator and Lusovenator

[stiff osprey]

Lajasvenator is 5 m, I think Lusovenator is 8 m

[mossy anchor]

I got this unidentified tooth from the hell creek formation years ago. It was definitely a stupid decision, and i shouldnt have trusted it, but i was curious if theres any way to test its authenticity? I got some close up pictures of it with a microscope, and so i was curious if maybe the textures and patterns on the tooth could mean anything?

I’ll just upload some of the images now. The pictures are pretty bad, for a basic description:
The tooth is very slender, is very smooth, and has minor serrations only on the inside/back of the tooth. The top is very rough and sort of broken.

[snow python]

Fully grown Lusovenator? Bcuz I think the holotype is a juvenile

[stiff osprey]

It's a subadult/young adult

[sullen cairn]

iirc sassy's lusovenator is a touch larger than justice's

[stiff osprey]

Oh they made him normal

sassy's version had legs for days

[sullen cairn]

If i had a nickel for every time a basal carcharodontosaur beginning with letter "L" named in 2020 was substantially smaller than another predator in its ecosystem, i'd have two nickels

Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice

[lavish frigate]

2 is a Silly goofy ah humpless conca

[open compass]

Guys, is this accurate information? or is there no answer yet? (I'm talking about it's eyebrows🤨)

[stiff osprey]

that's just fake

[sullen cairn]

as we all know rex was green

[last iron]

We have no confirmation on if it has any filaments when they reach adulthood because we have no impressions of such as of now
They likely didn’t roar per say though, that part is more likely

[open compass]

Rex from Prehistoric Kingdom?

[sullen cairn]

unpublished specimen currently stored in CAU

[last iron]

The lacrimal crests may have been brightly colored to attract a mate but we don’t have confirmation on that either

[open compass]

Sad 😢

[pastel tartan]

What was a tyrannosaurus rexes biteforce

[sullen cairn]

~48-63kN

[compact leaf]

“green dinosaurs are an admission of defeat”

[pastel tartan]

What about in psi?

[sullen cairn]

that depends on how you're measuring psi

anterior bite force is about half of the total posterior if it means anything

[pastel tartan]

Whats anterior and posterior

[patent mist]

Front and back respectively

[pastel tartan]

What about tthe amount for each one

[sullen cairn]

25kN anterior assuming 48kN posterior

scaling that to the 63kN posterior would be 33kN anterior but idk if differing models would have the same anterior/posterior ratio

[wintry path]

dwarf basilosaurus

[crude latch]

It’s like Vaquita but better :0

[delicate pelican]

wow literally a extinct vaquita!

...

[wintry path]

Adorable!

[lavish frigate]

I love him is so cute….

[jagged trellis]

so 2 in a few years sadly

[west coral]

Not to be that guy but it’s a kekenodontid, not basilosaurid nor basilosaurus

[outer tusk]

I own this book for 2 weeks, anyone ever read this one

[bright veldt]

@primal ice TLDR on why "Dakotaraptor" doesn't exist, at least how we understand it.

Dakotaraptor is described by paleontologist Robert DePalma. DePalma has been a controversial figure for many years and for many good reasons. Most relevant to Dakotaraptor, instead of having the specimen in a museum like a normal person, he has it on display in the private top floor of a Mall, where he only lets the people he trusts actually view the material. Red flag.

Then, more importantly, he was exposed last year for his "KT Extinction happened in Spring" paper, where it was revealed that it was stolen work from the paper of a colleague, just with data points slightly changed to not look plagiarized (Pictures are copy+pasted too its so blatant lmao). If a paleontologist is a complete fraud like him, and nobody else can even see the bones themselves, then can we be sure it's even legit?

This revelation has also made people look into the dakota paper itself further. The turtle bone thing was funny when it happened but also only the tip of the iceberg. Since then, not only is the wishbone a turtle bone, but the backbones are probably ornithomimid backbones, the leg bones are probably oviraptorosaur legbones, and the supposed sickle claw is likely just a T. rex hand claw. After you remove all those bits (which is basically dakota's whole identity) you're left with like...2-3 little bones, and even then those might belong to the other raptor of the region, Acheroraptor, so we can't really be sure.

Is there a large raptor in Hell Creek? Sure. Is it "Dakotaraptor"? Probably not.

[light osprey]

Maybe we need that guy

[bright veldt]

Link to a TED talk describing the whole DePalma Fraud scandal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIarqUj_4tE&t=6s and paleontologist Andrea Cau disclosing why most of dakotaraptor's bones are chimeric https://theropoda.blogspot.com/2023/09/dakotaraptor-non-esiste.html?fbclid=IwAR2GlY5b06xSVIGDgzKM9RVqMeey2xPIaXyuW2QAwiq9s97a0qPOiv3A38E&m=1

[primal ice]

Google still says second largest raptor

[noble dune]

Outdated page on Google

[bright veldt]

A detailed response with reliable sources vs "Google says so"

[primal ice]

But it's is a the bait so we don't know

[noble dune]

Well I mean dakotaraptor is a chimera consisting of multiple bones from different animals soooo

[primal ice]

Plus if it was a acheroraptor why are the specimens big

[warped peak]

With all that being said, would the remnant definitive Raptor bones still be classed as Dakota? If they're not Achero

[noble dune]

Prehistoric wildlife is not exactly a credible source

[tranquil quartz]

Prehistoric wildlife 🤮

[noble dune]

Who even knows at this point lol

[bright veldt]

Acheroraptor itself is only known from a partial skull which tells us nothing about its age, and the few actual raptor bones in dakotaraptor suggest a smaller animal than what's typically described (Still bigger than deinonychus but not really close to utah sized anymore). So it's possible. Keep in mind it's still likely that it's not acheroraptor, but it's not really "dakotaraptor" anymore is it? 95% of the taxa was founded on a combination of chimeric material and lies.

[noble dune]

Turtle wishbone moment

[primal ice]

And then why would there been turtle bones and rex bones at the same place of time it kinda doesn't make sense to me

[warped peak]

Because Turtles go where they want?

[bright veldt]

"Dakotaraptor" was found in a mass bone bed, which is where a load of animals were acclimated together over time due to water flowing dead animals to the same general spot.

[noble dune]

Cause after death bones get scattered a lot?

[noble dune]

Oh yeah I forget do we know which turtle from hell creek it was?

[sullen cairn]

in theory yeah but essentially every "dakoraptor" element's dromaeosaurid affinities have been called into question in some form to the point that the only material generally agreed to likely belong to an actual dromaeosaurid would not be even remotely diagnostic as a genus

[warped peak]

So yes by technicality, but it should be a nomen dubium

[bright veldt]

Again, is it really "Dakotaraptor" anymore if 95% of what we know from it is either something else or lies?

[primal ice]

Then we don't know what animal it is so we have multiple bones in a place once though to be a raptor its a debates are going on

[bright veldt]

It was "discovered" and named by a fraud.

[primal ice]

Yes but why are there so many bones at one place there's dromaeosaurus Tyrannosaurus turtle

[stray wren]

"Dakotaraptor" as a name has been irreversibly tarnished anyway, if/when an actual specimen of a larger dromaeosaur is found, it will more than likely not be Dakotaraptor

[sullen cairn]

and even then some people like cau question any of the dakotaraptor material has dromaoesaurid affinities

[noble dune]

Dakotaemys

[sullen cairn]

although iirc lancian thinks there's a good case for the caudal and metatarsal(?) being actual dromaeosaurid material which is what most people seem here seem to adopt

[bright veldt]

Lets say an animal dies by a river. When the animal dies in said river, the flowing water carries the body downstream. Eventually, the body gets caught in either a bend in the river or at a blockage. This happens with more dead animals upstream, and then more, over hundreds to thousands of years. That's how mass assemblages happen.

[primal ice]

Then why would the bones I'd be at one single place like it was at movement

[sullen cairn]

because the rivers deposit them all in the same spot

[stray wren]

^

[bright veldt]

And keep in mind, such bonebeds look like this. "Dakotaraptor" wasn't a neat skeleton. Bones are all over the place.

[stray wren]

Mhm

[noble dune]

All I can pick out is some leptoceratopsid skull in there

[primal ice]

Thos are protoceratops

[bright veldt]

This isn't an actual picture of the bonebed. This is just what mass bonebeds tend to look like.

[noble dune]

Is it leptoceratopsid or leptoceratopsian?

[stiff osprey]

topsid

[noble dune]

Aaaah, gotcha

[sullen cairn]

using this as an example only because i remember the image is in the supplementaries but the leinkupal type/paratype quarry has several clades over multiple fossiliferous zones in a seemingly very small area

kind of a when it rains it pours type thing with outcroppings sometimes

also on the topic of cryptic hell creek taxa of questionable existance

[stray wren]

There's no photos of the Dakota bonebed cause it doesn't exist /j

[sullen cairn]

gsp shennanigans

[bright veldt]

But yeah, when mass bone beds have bones all over the place, it can make things....difficult. A modded creature example is Ampelosaurus. All of its remains are in a mass bone bed as well. While we know unlike dakota, it actually exists, the fact we can't really discern what specimen goes with what means that we don't really know what it looks like, outside of "big titanosaur".

[sullen cairn]

and our other favorite bonebed taxon of somewhat controversial size estimates

[noble dune]

That does explain the many different interpretations of Amp

[primal ice]

We have no evidence yet until we have a bigger bone of a dromaeosauride that doesn't have Mitch Mash is all over until then it's a the debate we don't know if it's valid or not valid it could be just unknown

[sullen cairn]

if only someone could examine the fossils....

[stray wren]

Dakotaraptor, as of now, is likely invalid. And, as the name has been tarnished by association, if there is a large Dromaeosaur in Hell Creek it will not be named as such

[noble dune]

Sadly this ain't a brontosaurus situation where it can come back

[stray wren]

Exactly.

[primal ice]

And nanotyrannus

[bright veldt]

Ironically nanotyrannus has a greater chance. At least while Bloody Mary still has yet to be fully looked at.

[noble dune]

One specimen in private collection

[primal ice]

It has

[stray wren]

Don't forget the Montana Deuling Dinosaurs as well, they're currently being examined at NCNHM

[light osprey]

I’m fairly certain the bone bed is a real place

[bright veldt]

This is what I meant. Bloody Mary is being looked at there, but the results have yet to be published. It's either gunna actually give nano some validity or kill it for goood.

[sullen cairn]

gsp revived copei for some reason too

honestly i'm not sure what gsp didn't screw up in some form in that book

[stray wren]

I'm going to see the Deuling Dinosaurs in a few months :D

[noble dune]

Nanotyrannus if it were genuine would it be a tyrannosauroid like alioramini?

[light osprey]

And some folks are still relatively confident in the presence of large Dromaeosaur material. Forget the nomenclature though, none of it is diagnostic beyond, “probably big”

[bright veldt]

There's been plenty of funny theories on it being an alioramine or albertosaurine, but we don't really know.

[stray wren]

It would likely be a Tyrannosaurine, just given the time range and location. But it being an Albertosaurine or Alioramine is a fun thought

[sullen cairn]

lets just wait until 2043 for carr's jane osteology

[warped peak]

Foxy please stop quoting the first page of Google as an argument

[chilly knot]

Because turtles can live alongside other animals

[stray wren]

That study is flawed and inconclusive, as such Nanotyrannus is not yet considered valid

[bright veldt]

If someone has the image comparison between Carr's and Longrich's studies on nanotyrannus that'd be grand.

[sullen cairn]

i really want the actual alamotyrannus to be published because that thing is probably not even tyrannosaurus and i am being 100% sincere here

[stray wren]

Tyrannosaurus mcmasterae or whatever it was

[sullen cairn]

that's different

[light osprey]

The metatarsal is kind of big right? Idr where Lancian’s silhouette for it is

[chilly knot]

You mean this?

[sullen cairn]

because remember folks
alamotyrannus is a large terminal teratophonin/teratophonin adjacent taxon

[wintry path]

sounds like bissekty giant (prob got name wrong

i think brontosaurus should become valid again

[stray wren]

it is

[bright veldt]

Yup. And would you look at that. Using less data created the result the paper was looking for 💀

[wintry path]

oh

[stray wren]

Brontosaurus has been valid for like... 10 years now

[chilly knot]

Carr brutally mogs

[sullen cairn]

raptorex is rizz
nanotyrannus is sus

[wintry path]

no one ever told me 💔 or i just dont remeprr

[stray wren]

jesus has it really been 10 years since 2014

[light osprey]

The world is an unfair place

[wintry path]

2018 was 7 years ago

[chilly knot]

🤫🧏

[wintry path]

Misinformation 😁

[sullen cairn]

more gsp antics

[wintry path]

wasnt there a vertebrae too

[light osprey]

Why couldn’t he just do one based thing and call it ?Albertosaurus lancensis

[stray wren]

Again, study is flawed and upon further testing and review does not hold up

[sullen cairn]

just saying pre-late maas tyrannosauroid biogeography/dispersal is far more interesting than this stuff

[bright veldt]

The issues with the study are right here

[chilly knot]

Albertosaurus lancensis is sus
Albertosaurus libratus is rizz🤫🧏

[sullen cairn]

Tyrannosaurus sealeyi is rizz

this book is something

[primal ice]

Then we wait till a fossil of a juv rex is at a 14

[chilly knot]

Bro is lumpmaxxing mad sus

[light osprey]

Both are sus
Albertosaurus periculosus is rizz

[sullen cairn]

Albertosaurus suprahorseshoecanyonensis

[chilly knot]

So skibidi

[sullen cairn]

only in ohiotyrannus

[light osprey]

Albertosaurus is so speciose

Dryptosaurus my favourite cryptid

[brisk acorn]

Skibidohiorizzosaurus drippyensis

[woeful falcon]

Studio's stuff is garbo poop. Leaves a sour taste in my mouth calling it a "study" when its just living animals pitch shifted

[light osprey]

Dinosaurs sounded like Eldenritch creatures because we said so

[lavish frigate]

So…..so are these real…..I still don’t know and every second I’m unsure is a second the life is sucked from my soul

It is pain

[ruby patio]

Me when this is the sixth server I ask for the identity of this bone

[wintry path]

pelvis

[warped peak]

probably a theropod

[stone moth]

@ruby patio geological context?

[ruby patio]

Nemegt formation, was found alongside very large Tarbosaurus remains and some ornithomimosaurs

[stone moth]

Hmm

Probably ornithischian pelvis

[tough parcel]

#385574099797409803 message

I'm gonna eat you

[ruby patio]

I'M SORRYYYY please dont digest me

I don't like being digested 😰

[tough parcel]

But yea, seeing as how many people agree with me, I am right

[ruby patio]

Are there any theropod pelvis pictures I could compare this to

[west coral]

Looks fairly ornithopod-like

[outer tusk]

hello people what did I miss?

[mossy anchor]

what carnivores lived in the hell creek formation, aside from well...tyrannosaurus rex obviously

[tough parcel]

Nananannnananananannatoraynnus

(Acheroraptor, Pectinodon, a couple other unnamed raptors, and of the heaviest salt grains Nanotyrannus)

[mossy anchor]

these names are getting too complicated

[mossy anchor]

what do we know about raptor teeth? do they have serrations on both the front and back? is that with only a few raptors?

[tough parcel]

I'm pretty sure that is almost every carnivore with serrated teeth ever

[mossy anchor]

interesting. in that case, can a tooth with serrations on the back be narrowed down to a general species?

[tough parcel]

No just genus indet. or family indet.

[mossy anchor]

sorry, what does that mean?

[bright veldt]

Hell Creek in terms of predators is just

TYRANNOSAURUS ft. Acheroraptor

with indeterminate troodontids and dromaeosaurs pending

[ruby patio]

E.g. you can tell the teeth are from the genus Acheroraptor but not whether it is Acheroraptor temertyorum

[topaz shell]

Is there an American shant?

[tough parcel]

Indet = indeterminate

[clever sable]

And paleoswania iirc

[bright veldt]

Edmonto's the best ur getting

[ruby patio]

The super-Edmont specimens' pathologies may actually represent automorphic characteristics of a Saurolophine

[tough parcel]

Ok but also don't jump ahead

[clever sable]

That's just one of the large specimens

[mossy anchor]

Ah i get it, so an indent is just a more general idea of what the tooth could belong to, be it genus or family or others?

[ruby patio]

Also another interesting point; Sue was mentioned to have been excavated 4.6 meters above Fox Hills in Larson, 2008. That means its around 69 million years old accounting for regular sedimentation rates.

Stan is 15 meters under the KT boundary so it would be around 66 MYO, and CM 9380 is 67 meters over the Pierre Shale so it's close to 67 MYO

[tough parcel]

Yarp, it can be designated at any level afaik, it's just used to say "It's in here, but beyond that idk lol"

[tough parcel]

This literally means nothing to me, explain why it's an interesting point

[mossy anchor]

So erm, if an unidentified tooth from the hell creek formation had serrations only on the back, what would the indent be?

[ruby patio]

Tyrannosaurus' timespan is variable in literature but it may stretch significantly far into the Early Maastrichtian, which is approaching Hall Lake dating

[tough parcel]

Bro's late to the Judithian Tyrannosaurus train

[tough parcel]

Got a picture?

[ruby patio]

Puts into question the validity of mcraensis

[mossy anchor]

Yeah, they kinda suck because trying to take a picture through a microscope is really annoying

[tough parcel]

Guh, any full images? 😭

[ruby patio]

Do you have pictures taken with a regular camera

[mossy anchor]

Heres a full picture of it sorry

[ruby patio]

Check the fossil forum page for Hell Creek tooth characteristics and automorphies

[mossy anchor]

I dont have a measuring stick but heres a general size idea

[ruby patio]

That seems similar to Acheroraptor but with seemingly smaller serrations?

[mossy anchor]

Where can i find that? Sorry

[tough parcel]

Ty ty brb

[ruby patio]

https://www.thefossilforum.com/topic/61069-identifying-theropod-teeth-from-the-hell-creeklance-fm/

[mossy anchor]

Yeah the serrations are extremely small, and again, only located on the back. Thats why i got closeups so yall could see it better

are denticles the serrations? im not very good with terms, sorry.

[tough parcel]

Kk so discussed it with an idiot (Lancian), it's dromaeosaur indet.

[ruby patio]

Didn't... they alread know that before?

[mossy anchor]

ah interesting

[tough parcel]

Huh?

[junior dawn]

that looks like a dromaeosaur tooth

oh, thanks discord

[mossy anchor]

well, i looked at acheroraptor. i tried to understand some of the terms, and some of them match, others dont. apparently theres a difference between the front and back teeth, although i only have one tooth. there seems to be something about extended ridges alongside the sides of the tooth, which i cant seem to see. the pictures do seem to match my tooth, but i cant just go off of that

[tough parcel]

Say it's a juvenile Dakotaraptor, no-one can prove you wrong

[junior dawn]

the tooth seems to be pretty worn, so the ridges are less visible. Its likely it had seerations on the front as well but it just got too worn down

[mossy anchor]

i see no serrations on the front, at all. so it has to be really worn down. i dont mean to doubt yall, im not expert at all

Heres some pictures that can hopefully highlight the front of the tooth. I think there actually are a few ridges along the side

[junior dawn]

i think i can see some faint serrations there
might just be the light

[mossy anchor]

Its possible. If there were serrations, what would that make the tooth?
Imo its probably acheroraptor, seems to fit all the characteristics

[junior dawn]

its def a dromaeosaur tooth, but with the mess that hell creek dromaeosaurs are its hard to pinpoint which one it is. It'd be hard even if they werent a mess lol

[mossy anchor]

Well, its nice to have an indent at least. Ty guys, i actually learned a lot from thus

[hardy ravine]

Anyone got a More accurate version of kaprosuchus?

[bright veldt]

Jon Kuo

[hardy ravine]

i see its almost like moder day alligators, instead its limbs are a bit change along with its massive skull,

[bright veldt]

Kaprosuchus isn't that large (200 kg, about the size of American Alligator). Kaprosuchus definitely had terrestrial affinities. It's teeth don't lie. But it still has high nares and eyes and its likely body frame based on relatives. Think cuban croc really and you got kapro.

[light osprey]

^ this applies to the other Mahajangasuchid as well

[topaz shell]

Weird Cuban croc

[sullen cairn]

and irregardless afaik hell creek isn't usually considered to have even begun deposition by 69 Ma

[ruby patio]

Yeah hell creek deposition starts at 68+- something i forgor. However what we do now is that Sue is one of the stratigraphically lowest specimens alongside B-rex etc, and Stan is one of the highest ones.

[sullen cairn]

texas (ft i'm too lazy to include any other glupshittos)

[snow python]

How long are Giga, Tyrannotitan and Carch skulls?

[silk radish]

Hominids are soo underrated

[west coral]

what the hell is that ceratopsian

Also where did aguja nanotyrannus go

[idle talon]

Arboreal deinonychus

[sullen cairn]

agujaceratops and i don't want to throw up a teratophoneus edit or something for the latter

[outer tusk]

1. Agujaceratops 2. Texan Tyrannosauridae indet and 3. Angulomastacator ?

[light osprey]

@little mauve I was wondering if you’ve some answers on Theropod metabolism

[little mauve]

Controversial subject but I'll try my best, what's up

[outer tusk]

if I was to do a piece of a sleeping Halszkaraptor, would a swan be a good analog for that

[light osprey]

Lucky me, I was wondering if anything has tried to estimate values for things like BMR and FMR for any Theropods

[nocturne merlin]

yes.

[little mauve]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/341362189_The_fast_and_the_frugal_Divergent_locomotory_strategies_drive_limb_lengthening_in_theropod_dinosaurs#pf16 Table 3 but I'm having a hard time corroborating the sources, I think the bibliography may be wrong 😵‍💫

[sullen cairn]

Bingo

[outer tusk]

I did a quick wikiepdia search also petiton to name the Texan Tyrannosauridea ( Texannus 🙂 )

[hallow spear]

Your scales pixel ratio neever ceases to amaze me at how utterly garbage they get

[little mauve]

@light osprey OK ran down the sources for at least one of the columns. First it's https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301279301_Body_Size_as_a_Driver_of_Scavenging_in_Theropod_Dinosaurs then https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263100656_Dinosaur_physiology_Evidence_for_mesothermy_in_dinosaurs. Hopefully gets you started, it hasn't been freshly modeled in its own paper afaik

[woeful falcon]

I've been wanting to say this for some time, thank you

[sullen cairn]

But why save the image when I can just screenshot it which takes five seconds shorter

[tough parcel]

^^^ he just like me fr

[sullen cairn]

although if the will of the people demands it

[outer tusk]

Me who saved and screenshot this image:

[light osprey]

Wow this really is a fickle topic huh

[little mauve]

There's also Wiemann et. al. 2022 which deals with actual specific biomarkers but it's not open access (though I'm sure I have a copy somewhere) iirc they produced ranges rather than specific BMRs

it is fickle, it's been somewhat sketchy modeling until Wiemann figured out those biomarkers

but even then we don't have a precise picture, I'll try to find the pdf for you

not it, but here's a histology based look that's open access https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301279899_Palaeohistological_Evidence_for_Ancestral_High_Metabolic_Rate_in_Archosaurs

basically we can say with some confidence that theropods had avian or slightly sub-avian metabolic rates, overlapping with ratites and things like that

[light osprey]

So not really befitting a Mesothermic label I suppose?

[little mauve]

sort of a bad label to begin with tbh, both ectotherms and endotherms show a pretty huge range of metabolic rates that dinosaurs easily fall within

like I see what they were going for with that but ecto and endo are much more descriptive, it kind of flattens the differences betweeen them. Tyrannosaurus definitely wasn't thermoregulating like a crocodile, it was a true endotherm, but it had significantly lower BMR than most birds. That doesn't make it not an endotherm though

with mesotherm they were trying to come up with a new descriptor specifically for dinosaurs which kind of makes sense but like I said also can be misleading

[light osprey]

Yeah I remember reading as such, Mesothermy being kind of a spurious term

I wonder though… I’ve also heard talk about Xenarthran metabolism. Especially regarding integument. How might those compare

More so on the comparisons to those megafauna taxa

[knotty gyro]

Hey guys, I don't quite understand which version I should get, can anyone help me... Platform doesn't matter, I have everything so far but the question is, are the dinosaurs that I bought also available on other platforms ?

[open compass]

This is a Paleo-Chat, you should write in the Path of Titans chat

[knotty gyro]

Oh sry

[little mauve]

Fascinating idea, I know xenarthans have lower than predicted BMRs for their size but not much else. Lmk where your research takes you

[open compass]

And yeah, they'll be available on other platforms too

[knotty gyro]

thank youuuu

[light osprey]

Apparently someone has calculated the BMR for Eremotherium at 560 W. I’m gonna have to dig deeper for how and where they extrapolated it

Oh it was Micheal Deak!

[little mauve]

Most of my sources for dinos are in ml O2/min so you might need to convert to compare

[light osprey]

The conversion would be 20.1 J/ml O2

[little mauve]

Still one more step to get to ml O2/min i assume but I don't know the formula offhand

My mistake, the papers for the dinos are not ml O2/min it's mL O 2 h −1 g −0.67 which translates to mass specific metabolic rate. A value they invent for the paper. Too much math for me I'm afraid

[light osprey]

I concur, guess I’ll wait for someone else to have done a conversion for the Xenarthrans

[little mauve]

In my brief look it seems like they may not even be convertible. Might be a dead end coming at it from this angle.

[light osprey]

I’ve tried looking at the distribution of woolly taxa during interglacial periods. Specific MATs would be nice but it’s hard to find

[little mauve]

What are ya trying to figure out?

[light osprey]

Temperature threshold for Elephantimorphs and Rhinocerotids retaining relatively dense fur

[compact leaf]

loop me in with what you find too this sounds interesting

[light osprey]

So far the most intriguing thing I’ve found is Coelodonta in the Nihewan Basin

The paper on its paleoclimate however doesn’t have an MAT

[light osprey]

Late surviving Megatherium in the Holocene I wonder if the current 14.1 degrees Celsius annual temperature today is a well enough analogue

https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/pdf/S2211-1247(15)00639-7.pdf this might be something

[outer tusk]

Look I know it looks bad, but I just wanna know how accurate is my 2022 gasosaurus

[topaz shell]

How accurate is POT turtle man

[sullen cairn]

this thing is actual crap

[west coral]

why him feet so thick

[sullen cairn]

because i forgot to trim down the background tissue when i put brick's utah into neutral

to which you might ask why use utah when the ilium looks ugly but gat's spiclypeus does the same thing so i don't care

[stiff osprey]

Accounting for stylization, pretty good, but it should have a more allosauroid skull

[copper flame]

just found out about the yellowstone hyperpredator today and i'm baffled

[bright veldt]

What? The puma?

[copper flame]

no

a friend led me to this

apperantly its a 130 o 200+ ton macropredatory sperm whale from the late oligocene

[bright veldt]

link it

[copper flame]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fhyperpredators%2Fcomments%2F1938lf5%2Fthe_yellowstone_hyperpredator%2F&psig=AOvVaw02y4wDra8nY90A70u5Zer4&ust=1707101212722000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBMQjRxqFwoTCNDqmN3VkIQDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAf

the friend i was talking to said that there would be a paper posted at the end of march

apprently theres a good amount of specimens although there pretty fragmentary

[warped peak]

Yeah I see no basis for any of that, it would be essentially physically impossible

[copper flame]

you just needa wait

[stiff osprey]

The AI generated image of a sperm whale really adds to the aura

[copper flame]

nah nah nah

[warped peak]

Really don't, 26 meter long 200 ton Macropredator goes against our entire understanding of a foodchain

[bright veldt]

Ah yes. No source. Vividen popularized it. It's totally legit. 💀

[warped peak]

Let alone all governing principles of biology

[stiff osprey]

Oh wait I zoomed in, that's a beaked whale attacking a medium sized shark

[copper flame]

idk just wait till the end of spring or something

[warped peak]

This is literally David Peter's level

[bright veldt]

FragentaryAfTaxaVividenPopularizedtoTheAnnoyanceofEveryoneThatWantsSubstantialEvidenceBeforeSubstantialClaims#15

[outer tusk]

Vividen making a video on the most fragmentary remains and making it big:

[west coral]

does yellowstone border the ocean or is this the famous rival to the missouri forest shark

[warped peak]

It lives in the hotsprings

[outer tusk]

okay obivously don't hate Vividen as a person but his recent videos aren't it chief

[bright veldt]

Like I get the guy's pretty rigorous in his videos but its honestly annoying at this point. His work is not helpful for dino nerds.

[outer tusk]

^

[stiff osprey]

the bible did say Leviathan could boil the waters around him 🤔

[warped peak]

Okay ngl though hotspring marine ambushers would be a nifty role for something

[bright veldt]

First Copium Rex. Then bettisky giant. Now this. Just stop.

[sullen cairn]

if y'all want actual context this is prolly the best we're gonna get
incidentally "180t+ marine predators from the americas" have a wonderful track record of maintaining their titles in the past year

[copper flame]

apparently the the hyperpredator thingy has like...... a 11% complete fossil with 10+ specimens or something?

[sullen cairn]

the comparison to bruhathkayosaurus really emanates confidence

[warped peak]

11% complete fossil of a 200 ton animal

[bright veldt]

mfw the sizes of most giant marine taxa shrink once there's actual substantial bones of them. Megalodon's like the one exception that keeps getting bigger for some reason.

[stiff osprey]

scaling based on the primary estimates for Perucetus we can see that the yellowstone hyperpredator weighs ~45 tonnes

[sullen cairn]

and to think i was questioning if i was being too hasty scaling a squamosal to "somewhat above average chasmosaurine" size five minutes ago

[copper flame]

thats what i heard

[sullen cairn]

one of us should bug vividen to make a urc 44-r video

[warped peak]

Let's be real the issue isn't scaling fragmentary remains, it's scaling them to sizes that defy all fossil knowledge and ecological systematics

Swiss Tyrant? Big Ichthyosaur, not that weird. Maybe bigger than most. Same with bruhathkay, if it existed

[sullen cairn]

like c'mon its a giant abelisaur that lives in the middle of a desert thats cool

[stiff osprey]

I can see the headlines already

[west coral]

we should bug him to make a video on the last stegosaur

[compact leaf]

the last stegosaur

[sullen cairn]

the new CHONKY stego- actually wait no thats more like what edge would do

[copper flame]

yeah im still iffy on 130 to 200+ tons of a oligocene predator

[compact leaf]

I'm waiting for the spam chain that usually follows the last stegosaur

[copper flame]

is there anything that could even sustain that weight?

[stiff osprey]

a baleen whale, but those weren't around then

[warped peak]

yeah im still iffy on 130 to 200+ tons of a oligocene predator

[copper flame]

also found this funny image when i looked it up

[warped peak]

The biggest predator of all time lived in a time when it had nothing to eat

[copper flame]

lol

[stiff osprey]

it was eating the last perucetus

[copper flame]

real

[compact leaf]

what size did perucetus end up at?

[bright veldt]

like 75 tons

[copper flame]

80 tons or something

[warped peak]

Still damn huge to be clear