paleontology

[snow python]

Was sauroniops contemporaneous with spino?

[sullen cairn]

yeah

imma say osteoporosia because screw it

[snow python]

I find it hard to believe another 12m land hunter lived alongside carch, if that 12-12,6m is still up to date for Sauroniops

[sullen cairn]

its a frontal

[surreal stone]

Can anybody tell me whether saurophagonax or torvosaurus is faster based on the new research proposing it be 8.5+ tons

[light osprey]

I’m gonna guess and say the small one is faster

[snow python]

I made a size estimation for some fragmentary theropods, sauroniops and kelmayi and i find sauroniops to be 9.5-10m and kemayi at 8,5m

[bright veldt]

About right yeah

[worn isle]

Is there any information on these guys? from Kem Kem

[chilly knot]

Torvosaurus is faster and +8.5t mass is way exaggerated

[light osprey]

We know they exist. That’s it

[sullen cairn]

teeth, kinda jakapil looking tooth, footprint

more here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7188693/

[light osprey]

The diverse and well known herbivores of the Kem Kem 💯

[worn isle]

thanks!

[worn isle]

i think there's just some sauropods named

[light osprey]

By golly, is it a Titanosaur too

[last iron]

🚨🚨New creature dropped 🚨🚨

http://novataxa.blogspot.com/2023/12/megapterygius.html

[white matrix]

Late to the party, but eh

[fallow citrus]

can anyone tell me about hadrosaur intelligence? if theres anything about parasaurolophus specifically, that would also be helpful! thanks!

[bright veldt]

There's really nothing.

[light osprey]

That’s extinct animal intelligence in a nutshell, for future reference

[tough parcel]

Intelligence in a nutshell*

[worn isle]

oooh thank you

this guy is kinda big btw

[stiff osprey]

based on Ouranosaurus because uhhh nama pick rick x d

[tough parcel]

I thought "nama pick rick" was something from another language, but nope. It's just

[stiff osprey]

It's pickle rick

[worn isle]

lmao

[tough parcel]

We have evidence Deinosuchus fought Tyrannosaurus

[stiff osprey]

clearly the tyrannosaur killed the deinosuchus, but was bitten in the face in the process, getting its lacrimal cleanly ripped off

[clever sable]

Lies

Deinosuchus could never fight Tyrannosaurus as tyrannosaurus is just too powerful, didn't you know tyrannosaurus could fly?

But on a serious note wouldn't deinosuchus have been extinct by the time Tyrannosaurus came around?

[light osprey]

Not if Tyrannosaurus was in Judith River

[eager skiff]

This is hatcheri?

[fossil ingot]

Say first was Hatcheri then became Rugosus

[snow python]

Was Ramphosuchus smaller than Sarco?

[woeful falcon]

I read that as rhamphorhynchus at first and was very confused

[snow python]

From what i read Ramphosuchus was in the 9m range

[serene moat]

Recy probs got folded lol

[regal schooner]

Pachycelaphosaurids would be fast and ceratopisans ( not all of them ) slow

[white matrix]

Hi!

[fossil ingot]

Same

[slim needle]

Fellas, what’s the general consensus on Titanoceratops being a valid genus

[zealous summit]

ancient history right here

knowers know

[keen forum]

What the heck is nama pick rick

[rose thorn]

If you knew the general answer to that question then why prompt it

[rose thorn]

Uhh, it is as of right now. Don’t think it can be confidently absorbed by Pentaceratops

[rose thorn]

Gregarious animals with (compared to other ornithischians) advanced hearing, emphasis on visual features, complex vocalization capacity, and communal nesting behaviors would lend themselves to being on the “smarter” end of the spectrum. Hadrosaur brains are also notably larger/more developed in their structure than their contemporaries. So there’s obviously no formal way of measuring such because obvious reasons, but everything is in favor of them being portrayed as relatively intelligent

[white matrix]

Wts

Trex could not fly

Its arms would not have flight feathers cus that would make them useless

And evidence shows that its arms were very much mobile and used alot

[tranquil quartz]

😐

[white matrix]

Anyway anybody got an einiosaurus skeletal?

[white matrix]

Do yall know what einios horn was usefull in

Cus its kinda hard to use against preds innit?

[compact leaf]

display was probably a primary function, rooting around while foraging would be another possible one, it could also have some limited use for defense it’s still a giant horn stuck to its nose

[jagged trellis]

i imagine could help with foraging...sometimes, and the classic: oh thats hot

[white matrix]

Makes sensee

Maybe if used in defence it would deal blunt blows and piercing blows if something runs at it head on

[bright veldt]

Yeah horns in ceratopsids were primarily for display. Ceratopsids likely weren't the "stand your ground and fight back" type like most believe.

[white matrix]

Mhmmmm

They would only stand their ground if they have a pack of 5 and above is possible

[lavish frigate]

Anyone know of latest Cretaceous animals that are underrepresented in spec evo? Trying to find cool lineages to expand on

[bright veldt]

Alvarezosaurs and Noasaurs don't really get a lot of attention tbh

[white matrix]

Masiakasaurus i rarely see ppl talking abt it

Maybe like megaraptors too

[lavish frigate]

Alvarezosaurs took over most of the Dromaeosaur niches in Eurasia and were eventually domesticated like doggos. Noasaurs could be interesting

[lavish frigate]

We’re megaraptors still around by the KPG?

[white matrix]

Lemme check

Yea well they were in the cretatious period

[lavish frigate]

Oh and btw for anyone wondering I do have Abelisaur representation 🎉 (they are the sapient species in my spec evo)

[lavish frigate]

Maybe I can do a little bending like I did with carchs and anurognatnids if they aren’t still around by the KPG

[white matrix]

Idk bro

[vocal breach]

Wasn’t Maip around close to the KpG?

[light osprey]

Yes Chorrillo is a Maastrichtian formation

[sullen cairn]

early maas though iirc

[white matrix]

Wait kpg is the republic of korea innit?

[vocal breach]

[light osprey]

There’s also a myriad of indet. Material from many Maastrichtian SA deposits

And they are probably still the dominant predators in Australia/Zealandia

[lavish frigate]

[light osprey]

Maybe mainland Antarctica too

[lavish frigate]

Oh….ideas….

[lavish frigate]

You created penguin megaraptors and you shall now live with that fact

[compact leaf]

mainland antarctica seems like it would throw some weird curveballs but it seems like it's more or less the south american formula plus maybe a big hadrosaur

and apparently multiple iguanodontid occurances in snow hill island, there's the curveball

[clever sable]

It was sarcasm..........

[white matrix]

Oh i just wanted to correct u...

[snow python]

How heavy was Simbakubwa?

[delicate pelican]

looks decent for digging

and i guess it could be used as a weapon if it risked its neck being exposed

[magic brook]

Alright, since idk where to ask this does anyone remember a kids show on bbc iplayer of three dinosaurs waiting to see the end of a very long sauropod with a head at the end of its tail, I just now remembered seeing this show as a kid and I’m trying to figure out what it’s called

[light osprey]

The Seymour island deposits were unfortunately an island during the Maastrichtian

Thus, we still don’t have great biogeographical information on Antarctic fauna

[compact leaf]

I like how you glossed over the multiple maastrichtian iguanodontids

[light osprey]

Wym

[compact leaf]

there is multiple antarctic collections with iguanodontidae indet. which is unusual

[light osprey]

Ohhhh

[tacit pine]

What size was touranjisaurus in prehistroic planet?

[light osprey]

Yeah. My bet is, similar to Dorotea, Hadrosauromorphs and Kritosaurs cohabitated the Antarctica Peninsula then Island

[compact leaf]

I'm digging now and there's a few supposed maastrichtian iguanodontids that I didn't know about, one from slovenia too

[alpine island]

Does anyone have a Tuojiangosaurus skeletal

[light osprey]

I know what you speak of. I hate that it exists

[alpine island]

Appreciate it

[tacit pine]

is there any skeletal for futabasaurus?

[compact leaf]

you can't escape the post cenomanian weirdo clade, I'm telling you there's more out there

[light osprey]

on what continent I wonder…..

[white matrix]

iirc gat has one

[tacit pine]

hmmm alr

[regal schooner]

Because i wasnt sure

[surreal stone]

the amount of neck bines honestly scared me

[tough parcel]

Eh, I have more

[surreal stone]

im sorry? WHAT?!

what species are you bro 😭

[tough parcel]

Eh, the people I yoinked em from weren't all that different from me, so I assume human?

[surreal stone]

dude WHAT!

Bro is a literal SCP

[steady rock]

How accurate is Thomas Jefferson's writing about mammoths?

[stiff osprey]

I prefer his opinion of ground sloths, honestly

[steady rock]

Where did the paleomeme of allosaurus having issues with everyone in Morrison come from

[stiff osprey]

Allosaurus with holes in their spine from Stegosaurus thagomizers, Allosaurus with broken jaws from other Allosaurus, Allosaurus with bite marks from larger theropods

[compact leaf]

pick a large animal in the morrison and there's probably an allosaurus that got beat up by it at some point

[last iron]

Also that one Allosaurus pelvis fossil

[lavish frigate]

Hot take: ceratosaurus is objectively better than allosaurus in every way because cool

[steady rock]

ceratosaurus

[lavish frigate]

Every time an allosaurus is killed by a cera a Jurassic fight club writer dies 💀

[tranquil quartz]

My heart goes out to that allosaurus, bro took an insane hit

[abstract flame]

Which one?

[last iron]

https://i0.wp.com/www.sciencenews.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/ts_SNS_StegoStabb_feat.jpg?resize=860%2C460&ssl=1

I believe Robert Bakker made that art btw

[outer turret]

Anyone know what the largest predator of the triassic need it for a drawing ima do lol

[stiff osprey]

largest predator? Shastasaurus. but the largest on land would be Prestosuchus, I think

[bright veldt]

That would go to some phytosaur most likely? But I’m not knowledgeable enough to say which

[stiff osprey]

yeah Smilosuchus is also very big

[lilac vale]

I was reading an article on this and the first image in the article is this

[last iron]

LOL

[lavish frigate]

This is much yes.

[light osprey]

Seems plausible, we’ll need more data to confirm though

[wary heath]

Do you guys know if there's calendars for Prehistoric Planet?

[lavish frigate]

That would be sick

[bright veldt]

More stuff by DePalma that was faked https://pubpeer.com/publications/9B9D041BD4D3633C2D4F99D002DF87#5

[compact leaf]

I understand that the data isn’t sound and it shouldn’t have been published in the first place, but what are the implications of this?

[bright veldt]

The whole thing with the KT happening in the Spring is sound. The article was under intense controversy because DePalma did the equivalent of "lemme copy her homework but not make it obvious". Posting it before the paleontologist that actually did the work and taking credit for the clout

Pulling crap like this where the figures and data are nonsense, being carbon-copies of the OG paleontologists work, but slightly modified to not be identical, at best, and at worst just doing the same figure twice but mirroring it lmao

[compact leaf]

I’d say I’m shocked but this is DePalma we’re talking about

[light osprey]

Totally random, is big head Lythronax still a valid interpretation?

[sullen cairn]

as in hartman's recon?

[tough parcel]

I will say this everywhere I see it: Idk why people are surprised when Allosaurus, a theropod with billions of specimens, has more pathologies known than other theropods, who are often lucky to get 5 individuals preserved (in general, not even good)

[bright veldt]

That's what I'm saying. It's like people. When there's 8 billion folks on the planet there's gunna be a lot of idiots. Have a lot of allosaurus specimens, there's gunna be a lot of dumb dumbs getting themselves hurt.

[woeful falcon]

Tyrannosaurs and big heads

[light osprey]

But some of these Lythronax depictions have big heads

[tough parcel]

Show

[light osprey]

Quality be damned

[sullen cairn]

well with the skeletals at least going by the scalebars in the description neither conform especially well to em

brick's has a better fitting pubis and worse fitting tibia while hartmans is vice versa

i should really check out the scan of the mount sometime

[light osprey]

Also this older Alex James model

[tough parcel]

Idk how you can determine it being a bobblehead...when it's just a head and neck

[light osprey]

Oh not necessarily proportionality of its head I’m referring to, just like; how wide its skull is

[sullen cairn]

if you're talking about the posterior expansion that could be an artifact of being reconstructed closer to tyrannosaurus itself (considering lythronax clades sister to tyrannosaurini in its description), but the description does explicitly state that the skull is very posteriorly expansive

ergo it seems to be a legitimate feature of the skull rather than an artifact of reconstructed elements

[light osprey]

Damn

[sullen cairn]

also there looks to be an ~8.5-9m tyrannosaurid ~82-80 Ma

so that's nifty

[tough parcel]

Make it 10

[sullen cairn]

i could but i'm not

[tough parcel]

:(( Why not? That's not very nice of you...

[sullen cairn]

because it's scaling with scalebars of sue's caudals and i don't like how big it is

[tough parcel]

I like it

[sullen cairn]

and its scaling with more posterior-positioned caudals so of course its gonna be larger

[stiff osprey]

every day, tyrannosaurids outcompeting carchs becomes a little closer to reality

[quaint isle]

What makes Tyrannosaurus bigger than Tarbosaurus?
I heard they were the same height and length, but Tarbo had a slender jaw. How does that make rex bigger?

[sullen cairn]

the largest tyrannosaurus are like 1.5m longer than the largest tarbosaurus which helps

and built more like bricks

[stiff osprey]

it is larger in every concievable measurement

[clever sable]

Tyrannosaurus is taller, longer and significantly more massive

[west coral]

The real question is how much wider is rex

[wooden spindle]

Dimetrodon had fur or no fur?

[quaint isle]

Ah thanks guys!

[quaint isle]

Real

[stiff osprey]

No fur. It wasn't warm blooded

[coral dragon]

no fur

[rigid quiver]

Did dilo have quills?

[tulip dove]

So is the giant Parasaurolophus still a thing or has the material been assigned to something else?

[hallow spear]

Its still a thing, just not for walkeri

[bright veldt]

We don’t know

[tulip dove]

Alright

I was a little confused when some people were talking about big Para no longer being a thing but good to know that it still is

[hallow spear]

swear to god someone talked about dacent

[pastel scroll]

Tyrannosaurus is heavier which makes it bigger

[bright veldt]

Tarbosaurus is 11 meters and 5 tons. T. rex is 12 meters and 10 tons.

[tough parcel]

Lateral + dorsal of both animals, labelled accordingly (Repost because I misspelled something)

[white matrix]

tarbo got the schnose

[hallow spear]

the tarbo skull is wrong

[tough parcel]

"Tarbo skull is wrong"

Doesn't give alternative

[hallow spear]

IM LOOKING FOR IT

[chilly knot]

cap

[hallow spear]

https://fxtwitter.com/Sketchy_raptor/status/1730477984740474955

[tough parcel]

I don't feel like scaling it to the Tarbo skeletal so L

[light osprey]

I don’t think this Skull is particularly wrong. The ontogenetic skull is MgD-1/31

[heady thunder]

Tarbo looks like a rex drawn from just memory by someone who is just slightly interested in dinosaurs

[snow python]

What are the chances that Saurophaganax was a basal carcharodontasaurid

[stiff osprey]

Not zero, but very low

[snow python]

I watched a video on youtube and that guy said Leviathan was like 12,8m and 8,3tons

[mellow ruin]

13m?

[snow python]

If is correct it would be more massive than Spino and Carch

Highly fragmentary though

[mellow ruin]

I didn't knew that Leviathan was a real animal

[woeful falcon]

You lost me at "video on youtube"

[snow python]

Vividen's video, it dropped a few hrs ago

[light osprey]

trust me bro, I saw it on the internet

[snow python]

Nickname bcuz if its massive size

[woeful falcon]

This doesn't make it better haha.

If you didn't lose me at youtube video you would have lost me with anything to do with saurophaganax

[tranquil quartz]

Is saurophaganx even above 7 tons?

[bright veldt]

Maybe

[snow python]

It seems its bones were dense

G.S. Paul's 10,5m and 3,3-3,7t is no longer accurate

[sullen cairn]

the big one's an 18.5cm d13

[snow python]

Yes

[hallow spear]

it was never really accurate lol
Saurophaganax never really had or has good estimates

[chilly knot]

the rumbling has started...

[snow python]

True, Spino and Tyrannotitan have better estimates

[light osprey]

Everything has better estimates

[sullen cairn]

i'm not sure if the proliferation of judithian tyrannosaurus or giganotosaurus-size saurophaganax is the worst part of this week

[chilly knot]

single dentary vs single d13

https://tenor.com/view/stare-staring-black-guy-gif-24920795

[white matrix]

whats funny is your "average" person probably wouldn't care about proliferation of a species

[stiff osprey]

We proved that this week when Falcon started spewing everywhere that T.rex and Deinosuchus lived together and like, 3 people noticed

[white matrix]

What's the most fragmentary dino we have? My bets on Thanos

[stiff osprey]

I propose Wakinosaurus

It's known from 1/3 of a tooth

[clever sable]

Where did giganotosaurus sized saurophagonax come from

[clever sable]

Do you know anything about giga sized saurophagonax

[clever sable]

Do you know anything on giganotosaurus sized saurophagonax?!??! I gotta know if it's real because sauro has always been one of my favorites

[white matrix]

blud calm down

[light osprey]

Lol

[tulip gyro]

yes

[fossil ingot]

If you use Leviathan Yes
Cause Fenris is just 5 tons

[chilly knot]

single giant dorsal vertebrae

[tough parcel]

I’m still mad about that, like are you serious

[tough parcel]

People when we now have possible evidence two of the biggest heavyweight carnivorous archosaurs were slugging it out:

People when some toe bone is big raptor:

[vapid lotus]

i don't remember seeing evidence that Giganotosaurus and Spinosaurus lived together?

[tough parcel]

You're next.

[vapid lotus]

[compact leaf]

people when lost single sauropod vertebrae is probably big:

[tough parcel]

YEA

[neat drum]

deinosuchus absolutely roflstomped rex in a fight

[light osprey]

Trug

[clever sable]

Vividen on his way to talk about an insanely fragmentary specimen and say it's reliable for the 1738844th time:

[chilly knot]

he never said its reliable but k

[clever sable]

He never says it's unreliable either and at the end of the video he says "we now know that saurophagonax is the third largest terrestrial carnivore being larger than carcharadontosaurus and spinosaurus"

[woeful falcon]

I dislike this brand of content because you could slap a billion disclaimers on it but people will still take it at face value

[sullen cairn]

I don’t

[chilly knot]

he knows its not reliable I told them 129031827907523890734980571395710 times at least

[sullen cairn]

It’s funny to watch the chaos it brings

[chilly knot]

i love causing chaos

[clever sable]

Now I do think his videos are informative, however I feel like he tries to market them as reliable as either he never says it's unreliable or he says it's relatively reliable

[woeful falcon]

What good is an informative video if the information is crap

[clever sable]

"them" referring to the large fragmentary specimens he talks about

[sullen cairn]

Spinosaurus is big, cranial fragment
Saurophaganax is big, dorsal centrum 😠

[chilly knot]

lmaooo

[sullen cairn]

We live in an ecosystem

[clever sable]

When it comes to the other stuff like how he talks about the differences between allosaurus and saurophagonax it's pretty good

[chilly knot]

TableSpitting

[clever sable]

It's these 5 videos specifically that I feel this way about

[chilly knot]

I havent watched any besides the last one

[light osprey]

These couldn’t be more real and productive things to discuss, whatever could you mean

[compact leaf]

the amount of times I’ve had to tell people bruhathkayosaurus isn’t reliable only to have them reply with “vividen said it is” is too high

[clever sable]

He never says In a single one of those that the information may be possibly unreliable, he basically just says "it's relatively reliable" or never even mentions it at all

[compact leaf]

the amount of times I’ve had to talk about bruhathkayosaurus in general is too high

[sullen cairn]

Bruhathkayosaurus can indeed be reliably scaled to ~8.5-9.5m as an abelisaur

[light osprey]

There’s wasn’t a 1000 metre long Titanosaur living on the island continent of India 😱

[chilly knot]

Bro found out how youtubers work

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/bizzare-deji-ksi-knowledge-so-bizzare-gif-24193059

[sullen cairn]

Me when [insert content creator] creates [insert content catered for engagement]

[clever sable]

Idc, he can at least it's potentially unreliable, like Paleontology is a science and if you are saying factually incorrect things/things with little support in a science related subject I think it's worse than if you were to say that in a non science related subject

[west coral]

Uber-raptor and Heavysaurus

[light osprey]

I love that

[west coral]

You fool, bruh is the island continent of india

[sullen cairn]

The deccans were bruhath sneezing

[light osprey]

They were right, Sauropods do indeed change the environment they live in

[woeful falcon]

I don't see anything wrong in being heavily critical of youtubers whose content is based around paleontological information when said content is misleading, knowingly or unknowingly

I'll be equally as critical as people being dismissive of that.

[sullen cairn]

But knowingly spreading misleading information is funny

Falcon

[light osprey]

True

[sullen cairn]

I was gonna say the tyrannosaurus deinosuchus thing but that is unironically looking increasingly plausible so I can’t even be mad

[west coral]

misinformation is fun, especially with giant individuals

[clever sable]

Him making a video on cope is one of the worst things to ever happen to the Paleo community as now everyone thinks cope is definitely 11.5 tonnes even though it's literally 4 pieces of material with one of those pieces of material being unmeasured and when questioned about it he says it's pretty reliable because it's the weight bearing bones

[woeful falcon]

"One of the worst" is exaggerating but a headache certainly

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/ryan-gosling-apple-reaction-my-reaction-to-that-information-gif-27485447

[white matrix]

thats why there is a distinction between dinotubers and paleotubers, vividen is prob in the middle

[sullen cairn]

Axial elements — unreliable
Appendicular elements — unreliable
Me when the specimen doesn’t have a completely described axial series, long bones, and cranial material

[woeful falcon]

I have similar sentiments about bruhath and anytime anyone does anything on saurophaganax

[sullen cairn]

Cope estimates are wonky but it’s not because it’s known from long bones

[white matrix]

vivden should make a video of giant palaeloxodon!

[west coral]

I assume you feel the same way you do for sauro as you do for epan

[woeful falcon]

No but that's because no one talks about epan at all compared to sauro

[white matrix]

i talk about it checkmate

[woeful falcon]

You win this round tk

[chilly knot]

epan is also utter poop

[tough parcel]

I am loved and adored by all

[clever sable]

Ok it's not one of the worst but it's still really annoying

[white matrix]

hence headache

[woeful falcon]

Bit of a stinker

[clever sable]

Imagine saying that this material is enough to be reliable (we only have the white stuff obviously)

[white matrix]

you clearly havent seen the stuff table does with abelisaurs

[tough parcel]

That head is oddly small I wonder what this could mean...

[sullen cairn]

Omw to disregard any mapusaurus estimates because none of the specimens are complete

[clever sable]

It's because it's unmeasured so it's scaled to Stan because it's described as "at least as large as Stan"

[tough parcel]

LMAO

[clever sable]

So yeah, 4 pieces of material and one is unmeasured

Just such a reliable specimen am I right?

[white matrix]

table with abelisaurs: youre wrong

[sullen cairn]

Wait until you people hear about any spinosaurus estimate over 4t

[light osprey]

He’s me

[chilly knot]

real

[sullen cairn]

I may be jaded by a abelisaur estimates but saying cope is the biggest rex is bad because it has odd proportions not because it’s fragmentary

Like you can fairly reasonably scale it a tad larger than Scotty but that requires a couple assumptions about how you should scale the material

[clever sable]

Also garbage but due to the 2 specimens that aren't fragmentary garbage being sub adult we don't really have a clue as to how large spino is

But yeah those spino dentary specimens also suck, my biggest issue with what vividen does is how he never actually explicitly states that they are potentially unreliable

[sullen cairn]

I also just like how funny the fallout from cope has been

[light osprey]

The paleo-community when an animal is a size 🤯

[sullen cairn]

I’d like to remind the 10m adult pycno crowd that in addition to said 10m individual not being even remotely referable to pycno your god is literally a premaxilla that is effectively unfigured

[white matrix]

pycno popularity died after pot released it

[sullen cairn]

Karma for 10m pycno existing

Like the difference in size between pycno and the “speculative adult size” is the same as making siats 13m

[white matrix]

damn

[sullen cairn]

And I can guarantee you would get more flack for saying saurophaganax is 8t rather than pycno is 10m despite the former legitimately being far more reliable scalingwise

[bright veldt]

I feel like you're exaggerating when adding 1 meter to a subadult animal is not in any way overexaggerative

[sullen cairn]

That’s a 40% increase in mass

Over 50% if you use the more commonly scaled 10.3m

[light osprey]

I trust cause he likes to yap about Abelisaurs a lot

[compact leaf]

I can add 2m to my subadult sauropods without consequences, take that abelisaurids

[frosty anvil]

Its so funny that people sleep on the former and yet continue to do those dumb dino v dino debates

Also genuses of the heavyweights? I dont have weights memorized sorry

[light osprey]

Tyrannosaurus and some other fat Alligator

[tacit pine]

wasent there also like a massive pliosaur head skill found recently?

[clever sable]

It's big but the most important part is how well preserved it is

[tacit pine]

yeah

[little mauve]

Tyrannosaurus possibly appearing in the Judithian reminds me of those allosaur-like teeth Fiorillo & Currie described in the Judith of Montana

[compact leaf]

what I want to know more about is Naish’s rumored north american spinosaurid teeth

[little mauve]

Apparently the teeth are out in the literature published as Paronychodon but nobody's been able to find it and AFAIK naish hasn't dug up the work again

Would be cool though, wouldn't be surprised if spinosaurs were included in the faunal interchanges going on at that time

[compact leaf]

where exactly were they found?

[little mauve]

He only said North American when he brought it up on Twitter, I think that's all we know

There is a personal communication reference on the prehistoric wiki to specimens in the BYU collections, so presumably Utah, but I have no idea if it's the teeth Naish was referring too

[compact leaf]

a north american spinosaurid would be really interesting, I hope he digs up the work again some day

[bright veldt]

The issue is that NA was basically cut off from the rest of the world during most of the early cretaceous

[compact leaf]

turiasaurs manage to show up out of nowhere maybe it was a similar interchange event that brought them both over, it would have some strange implications for the evolution of spinosaurids for sure

[bright veldt]

Given what we know of spinosaurs, having started in Europe then spread southwards generally, then we can deduce that they wouldn't cross into NA from Asia, which leaves only 2 hypotheses: They crossed via a south american landbridge or they swam to NA, both of which are unlikely given spinosaurs werent that aquatic until arguably very late in their evolution and NA and SA wouldn't connect in the Cretaceous till spinosaurs were already extinct.

[little mauve]

There's an Asian/NA exchange going on towards the top of the cedar mountain

It depends on how widespread they were in Asia imo

[compact leaf]

we also don't have a great handle on when exactly spinosaurids disappear, considering how little we know about post-cenomanian africa and northern europe it is possible that they lasted longer in places

[little mauve]

There's a good amount of NA and European exchange throughout the Cretaceous as well

[compact leaf]

we see the effects of the cenomanian-turonian boundary in a lot of places but those places also weren't particularly isolated when it happened, there's several isolated places where we have little or no idea how it affected the fauna of the region (basically because there's no post-cenomanian rock there)

[sullen cairn]

On the topic of proposed NA clades we have teeth from the Morrison favorably compared to abelisaurids

[little mauve]

Any thoughts on "Theropod A" here? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/40662369_Theropod_teeth_from_the_Judith_River_Formation_Upper_Cretaceous_of_South-Central_Montana

[sullen cairn]

In addition to abelisaurids being present in at least three other formations with megafauna broadly congruent with the Morrison

[sullen cairn]

Here’s tomato’s thoughts (please ignore the name) since he’s looked into it far more than I have

[little mauve]

Interesting, thanks

[sullen cairn]

We have a host of tyrannosauroids with atypical tooth morphology so it just being some weird tyrannosauroid of sorts is probably the most likely possibility but again I haven’t looked very far into it personally

[little mauve]

Well I like weird cryptic tyrannosauroids so cool stuff

[compact leaf]

weird cryptic fossils are always cool

the alaskan therizinosaurs fascinate me

[light osprey]

Cantwell itself is pretty interesting climatically speaking as well

[little mauve]

Great paper. Tracksites are perpetually underrated

They have a great floral record too, very interesting environment

[light osprey]

CMMT of -2.3, probably high precipitation as well

[steady rock]

so like, why was allosaurus having issue's with everyone in every formation it was in

[little mauve]

High precipitation, high mist, total cloud cover, high fog. The open warmish Arctic ocean would be pumping tons of moisture up there in addition to the north pacific

[compact leaf]

preservation bias is a big part of it, we just have a ton of allosaurus fossils so we see more stuff

[steady rock]

so nature just preserved allosaurus having injuries from like, everything in morisson? ToT

[light osprey]

Permanently blind Dinosaurs lol

[little mauve]

Fog grows trees biiiig

[light osprey]

Though it seems the Arctic fog would’ve encapsulated a pretty wide geographic area, what with the more continental location of Cantwell

[little mauve]

The influence would be weakened further inland but in general those latitudes would be pretty similar

[stiff osprey]

Imagine living alongside some of the predators with the most developed sense of smell in earth's history and not being able to see 30 feet ahead of you because there's mist everywhere

I do not envy the Cantwell therizinosaurs

[compact leaf]

I like to picture the predators living in constant fear because they can smell the nodosaurids around but can't see them

shins in constant jeopardy

[light osprey]

I like how none of the other Cantwell fauna are remotely acknowledged

[stiff osprey]

Little known fact, tyrannosaurids in North America were specialized theri eaters. That's why you never find their fossils to the south, rex ate them all

[little mauve]

Then add polar winter darkness on top of that

[light osprey]

Oh I totally forgot about this, Pterosaur tracks in Cantwell
Edit - and sub-zero winter conditions / high precipitation for more difficult polar conditions

[little mauve]

Very nice

[stiff osprey]

Just not a great place to be apparently

[light osprey]

Probably worst than the sub-arctic winter of modern Canada honestly

[clever sable]

What would be the worst formation to live in?

[light osprey]

I guess either this or the Prince Creek lol

[steady rock]

you need to explain

[clever sable]

Random was being sarcastic

[steady rock]

oh, what was the last theri in america now that i think of it, nothro?

[light osprey]

The Cantwell ichnotaxon I guess

[sand silo]

What would happen if all the wastebasket taxons of the world were suddenly valid??

[tough parcel]

I mean, some are so not much changes

We also lose like 90% of large theropods to “Megalosaurus” tho

[sand silo]

also i'm hoping that someday in the future Bruhathyo would be valid

[white matrix]

Might not be because Bruhatkayo its the illium

The "fibula" might be from another thing if its trully a dinosaur and not a tree

[ancient crystal]

So I'm arguing with someone who insists we have evidence Tyrannosaurus used its young to hunt because "the adults were too slow to hunt by themselves."

When I tell them that they probably shouldn't referrence Life on Our Planet as a source, they say they've read multiple papers on the topic.

I'm like 99% sure they're talking out of their ass but I just wanted to ask if this is actually something paleontologists consider?

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/no-nope-no-way-jamaican-uncle-homeless-gif-18076178572795473251

[ancient crystal]

Yeah, thats pretty much what I thought

[lavish frigate]

I mean the theory that they did something similar to that isn’t necessarily bad but to say we have evidence of that other than some Tyrannosaurs possibly living in family groups isnt really true 👍

[vocal breach]

Young Rexes filled different niches than the adults how hard is that to understand fr

[lavish frigate]

Also life on our planets smilodon looks like The Hunchback of Notre Dame and I stand by that statement

Bro got shoulders on his shoulders

[ancient crystal]

It was just such a weird arguement because they kept saying they had read all these sources about it but all they could say was that rex was too big, slow, and loud to hunt by itself

Oh and then they said tarbosaurus was the same size if not the same animal as rex

[lavish frigate]

Tyrannosaurus bataar I have no animosity towards (as this chat and a few others know very well I love spreading Tyrannosaurus bataar propaganda ) but to say that bataar and Rex are the same size is to say that a bulldog is the same size as a wolf 😔

[sand silo]

Also how Hadrosaurs are "GENTLE GIANTS" IT'S NOT JP ANYMORE

[ancient crystal]

That's fair, and admittedly I'm not entirely up to date on tarbo's classification or how likely it is to be put into the Tyrannosaurus genus

But when I say "the same," I mean that they thought bataar and rex are the same

[heady thunder]

Yo anyone have a rex chei size comparison in hand?

[lavish frigate]

The general consensus is that they are two genera however I don’t got no problems with my man Tyrannosaurus bataar and yeah saying rex and bataar are literally the same is just wrong and dumb lol

[lavish frigate]

Dang 😔 hadrosaurs need some action too. There are multiple that are like Tyrannosaurus size and LARGER they should have a scene or something where they absolutely wreck a theropod or two

[sand silo]

i stopped after i saw maiasauria be called gentle, Legacy the isle maia would killl anything that got in it's way.

[lavish frigate]

Well I mean that is kinda maiasauras trope with the parenting thing lol

[sand silo]

also Kephalods. Mogan fweeman

[bright veldt]

The current evidence points to tyrannosaurus not keeping its young around for very long. Once they got 2+ meters in length, which might’ve taken only a few months, they were already larger than any other predator in the ecosystem that’d threaten them.

[hallow spear]

Young tyrannosaurus was extremely effective

likely was the reason Pachycephalosaurus didnt get very far 💀

[tranquil quartz]

This probably a stupid question but has there been any evidence found of Tyrannosaurus or Tyrannosaurids being cannibals?

[little mauve]

Not a stupid question, there's lots of evidence

https://www.sci.news/paleontology/science-daspletosaurus-evidence-cannibalism-tyrannosaurine-dinosaurs-02679.html

https://cdnsciencepub.com/doi/abs/10.1139/cjes-2023-0055

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0013419

[light osprey]

The diversity of Pachycephalosaurs in question:

[hallow spear]

the one species that managed to get large:

[light osprey]

Erm

2️⃣

regardless, Platytholus and Sphaerotholus fall within pretty normal Pachycephalosaur size ranges. The size of more derived taxa more indicates the high productivity of the Lancian environments

[hallow spear]

i didnt ask for normal 🤓

and yes im aware of the diversity i just wanted to humourous

[light osprey]

Well put a /j or something grrr 😡

[bright veldt]

Pachycephalosaurs kill me cause like

I can imagine modders thinking “pachy is pretty cool, are there any others we can add to the game?” Then they can’t cause literally all other species are microscopic compared to pachy

3 meters for a pachycephalosaur can be considered giant lmao, let alone whatever pachy itself was doing

[tranquil quartz]

Thank you

[sudden wind]

https://fxtwitter.com/ydawtheshow/status/1736415074573598771?s=46&t=k5K2amx43yOoJQ4h8sEg7g

[bright veldt]

Ok so this was where the “you might be able to hear a trex coming but don’t know from where” thing is from

[sullen cairn]

d. torosus might be older than thanaotheristes
guh

[wild patrol]

Pls help

Pv

[white matrix]

with?

[noble dune]

I need a little help, remaking my old kaiwhekea drawing, just need criticism on what things need to be changed

[sudden wind]

the head seem wonky

body is very deep and neck could use some more length.

[noble dune]

Gotcha

[noble dune]

Updated the head and made the neck longer. I also made the body less deep and more streamlined(?)

After this I'm gonna wait to post any more pictures in fear of it counting as spam

But uh any more critiques of things I should change?

[untold arch]

i like to think about how allos and torvos compare to coyotes and bobcats

because they're roughly the same size but one is a stronger solitary hunter while the other is weaker but are stronger in numbers

[white matrix]

I agree

[still bone]

thanks for choosing phrestoric airlines and we hope you have a great flight

[white matrix]

My order for carnivores in the Morrisons for power alone goes

1. Saurophagax maximus
   2.torvosaurus tanneri
2. Allosaurus Fragalis
   4.allosaurus jimmadseni
3. Ceratosaurus nasicornis
   These are for larger theropods by the way

[heady thunder]

Didnt Jimmadensi live in Africa

[sullen cairn]

allosaurids aren't known from africa

[tacit pine]

Isint there a allosaurus implexus?

[white matrix]

Remember big al hr from Colorado

[tough parcel]

You could argue fragilis and jimmadseni are equal considering all(?) known jimmi specimens are sub-adults/young in general

[white matrix]

I didn't know that quite interesting

[sullen cairn]

random scaled a jimmadseni to around the same size as amnh 680

[tough parcel]

Which…jimmi was it?

[sullen cairn]

byu he forgot the rest

[white matrix]

But does that mean Jimmadseni would be bigger since they would be bigger since there the same size as fraglis and still growing

[tough parcel]

Oh no, I apologize if I worded it weirdly. I meant that because jimmadseni is mostly known from young animals, it is possible they grew to around fragilis size

[sullen cairn]

what about lucasi

[white matrix]

Ah I see well thank you

[tough parcel]

Mental illness

[sullen cairn]

real

fun fact: if a blue whale was an abelisaur you could scale its skull to 91168m

[white matrix]

Since big al was 26ft long I would expect it to be around 33ft in length or some rough estimate of sort

At being full grown

[woeful falcon]

Big Al 2 was an adult ye?

[plain stirrup]

how much did teratophoneus weigh?

[tough parcel]

Adult was probably 3-4 tons if we assume similar size to literally every other tyrannosaur not Tarbo-Rex (Current described specimen for Teratophoneus is a young animal, we do have an adult, but not fully excavated)

[untold arch]

if anyone have watched bobcats and coyotes, you would find that even though they are roughly the same size the coyotes fear bobcats, a group of four coyotes will just leave a lone bobcat alone even when food is involved

[compact leaf]

what happened to make you this way

[untold arch]

they're a bit special

[sullen cairn]

why 4t there's like two non-tyrannosaurus specimens in north america that're that large

[tough parcel]

I did say 3-4, I covered my bases

[sullen cairn]

Is Lythronax an adult
Like I actually don’t know

[bright veldt]

Pretty sure it is

[woeful falcon]

I don't know, I've long been wondering that

But I've never seen anything label it as immature either

[bright veldt]

and yeah all tyrannosaurs being 3-4 tons isn't correct when Nanuqsaurus and the Alioramines exist, even accounting for hypothetical adult sizes

[sullen cairn]

(Nanuq’s) still like 8m at least and alioramines have pretty explicitly derived niche/morphology along with being in Asia

[woeful falcon]

2-4 tonnes, cover even more bases!

[sullen cairn]

But yeah 9m isn’t the lowest you can get at all

[bright veldt]

Isn't it 7 meters, with maybe an 8 meter individual? An 8 meter tyrannosaur also is still probably not gunna be 3 tons.

Unless you're tiny zhucheng

[sullen cairn]

8m is some of the new prince creek material (which isn’t being assigned to nanuq but they’ll probably kill nanuq as a taxon anyways so it doesn’t matter much)

But yeah 8m would only be a bit over 2t

Although the smallest adult tyrannosaur in North America is the like 750kg upper aguja guy (which is funny when there’s an 8.5m+ tyrannosaur from the same formation)

[woeful falcon]

Looking at the abstract now, adult body size of 8m using theropod regression equations

[tough parcel]

Alioramines are also like 100% not adults so

[sullen cairn]

kid named qianz

[bright veldt]

"even accounting for hypothetical adult sizes"

[tough parcel]

Oh, I guess I'm illiterate, my bad

[sullen cairn]

unless nanxiong tooth is adult qianzhousaurus....

[bright veldt]

The 6 meter qianzhousaurus* was a subadult. So the alioramines being 7 meters and 1 ton is pretty likely.

[tough parcel]

The Alioramus adult skull tooth scaling...

[sullen cairn]

qianz is 7m as is

[bright veldt]

It was 6 last I checked

[woeful falcon]

Qianz might not be fully mature but some studies did predict it was indicative of a mature specimen. In any case its evident alioramin morphology isn't exactly congruent with your standard tyrannosaur

[sullen cairn]

hartman's skeletal is 7m on the dot

[woeful falcon]

There's also that alledged adult remotus(?) skull which, assuming its real, is indicative of the same

[sullen cairn]

also should be noted that kaiparowits has an ~8.7m probably non-teratophoneus taxon so that may or may not effect how big you think terato itself would be

[tough parcel]

Is it a footprint?

[sullen cairn]

partial skull

[tough parcel]

Oh that's boring

[compact leaf]

wait they're killing nanuq?

[sullen cairn]

the new paper absolutely craps on its diagnosis and doesn't even bother referring the new material to it

[compact leaf]

so what happens to it now? does it just go to tyrannosauridae indet?

[sullen cairn]

tyrannosaurinae indet

i'm gonna use this as an excuse to post the tyrannosauroidea brainrot iceberg

mods this is an educational infographic not a meme mkay

[tough parcel]

Mods, crush his skull

[sullen cairn]

nuh uh

[woeful falcon]

Where'd you get this info

[sullen cairn]

svp board

[untold arch]

mods, take his family

[woeful falcon]

Unless I'm not looking in the right place, the abstract doesn't indicate this to me. Although it does say "attributable to Nanuqsaurus" then refer to it as "Alaskan tyrannosaurine" in the same breath

[tough parcel]

Nah, I watched the conversation about the whole thing. Table actually cracked open the SVP digital vault and grabbed the full paper, then posted it in its entirety so we could all draw conclusions

[sullen cairn]

Nanuqsaurus was named on questionable characters from material of uncertain ontogenetic stage. Absence of new autapomorphies or character combinations makes it most parsimonious to refer the material to "Tyrannosaurinae indet."

[compact leaf]

table broke embargo crucify him

[sullen cairn]

tbf technically all of us broke embargo when we talked about the abstracts while svp was in-session

anyways even the figures don't refer to the holotype material as nanuqsaurus

[woeful falcon]

Yeah but like, where is this lol.

Also says Tyrannosaurin.....which is it John Paleo...

[sullen cairn]

check dms

[light osprey]

Mkay bad diagnostic characteristics, but clearly this represents a distinct animal, so you might as well pull a ”Dakotaraptor” and call it by the afore named genus

[sullen cairn]

i mean they're pretty likely the same taxon but muh autapomorphies

and even then there's a good chance dinosaur park, kirtland, fruitland, two medicine, judith river, menefee, kaiparowits, aguja, xingezhuang, and nemegt had multiple tyrannosaurid taxa throughout their temporal bounds so you can't be too certain

[light osprey]

Trug, Alaskan Tarbosaurus or something

[sullen cairn]

small nanuq is still real, big prince creek material is tyrannosaurini crossing over from beringia

[woeful falcon]

This is the unfortunate reality. And made more troublesome that tyrannosaurs aren't strangers to coexisting so they just as well might not be. Specially up there where continents meet lol

[light osprey]

Real, multiple Alaskan Tyrannosaurs is so real

[sullen cairn]

the five tyrannosaurids each of judith river and nemegt all converge in alaska

alaska has ten tyrannosaur species confirmed

man i have the absolute worst ideas

[light osprey]

Alaska will end up being the most diverse Laurasian ecosystem, despite the torrential winter season

[tough parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/avengers-assemble-avengers-avengers-endgame-squad-teamwork-gif-14751505

Judith River-Nemegt tyrannosaurs all arriving in Alaska to beat the titanic Edmontosaurus (It weighs more than 5x their combined weight)

[sullen cairn]

me when aliodaspletotyrannogorgotarborataanorex torolsinotusai a

the pinnacle of coelurosaurian evolution

[tough parcel]

Together they form: Allosaurus

[sullen cairn]

this is a very real and credible representation of the fauna of the judith river formation that totally all were contemporary and everything

[light osprey]

I meeeean, Pleistocene ecosystems aren’t far off from this monstrosity

[sullen cairn]

as usual this channel enables my awful behavior

shame

oh snap new miragaia skeletal

[woeful falcon]

Tyrannosaurs are the coolest family of dinos don't @ me

[light osprey]

No need, they are indeed

[white matrix]

you had me with pleistocene and lost me at monstrosity

[surreal stone]

ooooooooh, alcovasaurus vibes

[noble dune]

Bro's neck gets longer and longer with each skeletal it feels like

[tough parcel]

The year is 2024, Miragaia’s neck has grown 7x the length from this current skeletal

[ruby patio]

Wait, there's a formation named fruitland????

[compact leaf]

every new mira skeletal takes a vertebrae from the tail and moves it into the neck

[fossil ingot]

Looks ugly

[surreal stone]

can somebody send me that immage of the massive cera thing that is in all likelyhood not a cera

the full one, with the messages and stuff

Hello?

[sullen cairn]

+obligatory abelisaur recon scaled from better sample

[icy granite]

horrid beast

[surreal stone]

thanks a ton

[frosty anvil]

is this actually how it looked?

dude gets more and more strange each year

[tall basin]

what in the

[sand silo]

The alaskan Terrors

[sand silo]

At this rate it would be removed from the stegosaurids altogether and thrown into the sauropods genus

[ocean drum]

Could I get some opinions on this? https://palaeo-electronica.org/1999_2/gigan/text.pdf

[tranquil quartz]

How old is that paper

[little mauve]

Broadly accurate, newer studies have used different methods but with the same results

Giant theropods (and sauropods) were true endotherms but with intermediate metabolic rates

Chart from Wiemann 2022

[long crest]

hello guys how to get the POT = Path Of Titans for free ?

[rocky cypress]

Hey there! Path of Titans is not a free game.

The mobile version of Path of Titans that is available for free, on iOS and Android, offers a free Starter Pack of dinosaurs. As the mobile demo allows users to test if the game runs on their device before purchasing the full game.

In order to have all content and future updates for the game, players will need to purchase the full game or a Dinosaur Bundle pack. This is available in the 'Upgrade' option on the main menu, via a Founder's Pack on console, or the full version can be found on our store page at https://alderongames.com/store/path-of-titans
https://support.alderongames.com/hc/en-us/articles/8807399875993-Consoles-FAQ

[long crest]

and in PC ?

[main acorn]

Um... Birds are reptiles.

[hasty bloom]

it's currently on a 33 percent off sale for 16 euros (20 dollars) for the full game

[real swan]

Please try to keep this channel on-topic to paleo discussion, thank you!

If you have any questions about the game or sale and feel drowned out in #path-of-titans please send a DM to @feral crane with your questions.

[white matrix]

yes

[tulip gyro]

Birds are dinosauria also

( joke ) idk anything ab birbs

[tough parcel]

No, you were right. Birds = dinosaurs, more specifically, they = theropods

[tulip gyro]

ah alr ty

i just wasnt sure if u call them dinosaurs or not any other scientific name

[plain stirrup]

what about this design is inaccurate

[tulip gyro]

this is inaccurate

[jagged trellis]

namely dem L E G S, abit spikier, and head is chunky, prolly more but those are the main ones

[ancient crystal]

The plated armor is the biggest thing. The osteoderms are too spikey as well to my knowledge

[tulip gyro]

but i like it kinda

this is a accurate one

[elfin pulsar]

Well the face is too pointed, the legs are too long, and it looks like if has like no neck

There’s definitely more but those stick out to me the most visually

[bright veldt]

It also has a “shell” basically rather than alligator-esc osteoderms

[plain stirrup]

what about this?

[stiff osprey]

tail is too long and straight, feet too elephantine, skin texture does not match known trike scales

here's an accurate one

[white matrix]

I had went through the creatures of JP1, JW, JWFK, CC and JPtG to see what the population would be on Isla Nublar post Indominus incident, pre-eruption. Yes I know JPtG is not canon but I included it for a bit of fun. I would like to everyone's help dissecting this to see whether it'd be stable or not.

The main issue I spot is the lack of large carnivores to keep the large herbivores in check

Namely the ceratopsians and sauropods

[compact leaf]

sauropods don’t necessarily need a large carnivore to keep them in check because the healthy adults wouldn’t really be on the menu, most sauropod mortality would come from juveniles and hatchlings anyway

[white matrix]

True

[compact leaf]

it does help to have one big enough to hunt the juveniles though

[white matrix]

I believe the main contender for juvi sauropod hunting would be Allosaurus

This is all under the assumption that outside of Tyrannosaurus and Mosasaurus that each species would be able to form a stable population btw

Honestly Allo as a whole may be a menace to everything that moves based on what we now know about it

Baryonyx and Suchomimus also seem like they mostly have the waterways to themselves

[plain stirrup]

wasn’t deinosuchus on the island?

[white matrix]

Nope

Unless Spino was moved to Nublar Sucho was the largest water based creature on the island that isn't fully aquatic

[stiff osprey]

Allosaurus, Carnotaurus, Ceratosaurus, Monolophosaurus, Velociraptor (since they're apex predators in the JP universe) and Teratophoneus all in one island would be the opposite of stable

Also why is the horseshoe crab extinct what did they do to him

[white matrix]

The horseshoe crabs were confined to what seemed to be a single touch tank

And this was during the 1990's.... So yeah they most definitely starved

[stiff osprey]

RIP

If I was to speculate, Teratophoneus would be the first to go extinct since they are the rarest (we never see one alive)

Monolophosaurus is just kind of outgunned in every possible aspect by the super-raptors, so they're next

[white matrix]

It's possible the megafaunal predators would be forced to either niche partition or die. Allo, Carno and Velo would probably win out. Cera and Tarbo may be able to hang on

[sullen cairn]

i jump in here and thought this was about late campanian north america was wondering what the hell i missed

[stiff osprey]

lmao

[white matrix]

I can see Tarbo surviving by focusing on hadros and ceratops

[stiff osprey]

Tarbo could just take rex's niche since there's only one rex and she's at the end of her lifespan already

[white matrix]

The raptors may focus on the cattle and similar sized herbivores

[tough parcel]

“End of her lifespan”

She will live as long as the filmmakers demand her to

[white matrix]

Carno could focus on the mid sized herbis like Galli, Elapho and the dome-heads

[stiff osprey]

Rexy (age 57) when Universal Pictures finally disbands and she's no longer granted plot armor

[tough parcel]

Trug…

[white matrix]

Allo as we know now went by the "F@#$ it we ball" mentality when it comes to prey

[tough parcel]

Wrong

[white matrix]

So then there's Cera.

[frozen basin]

Wasn’t that mostly a haha funny joke

[white matrix]

Yeah but it definitely applies to JW Allo

[tough parcel]

All we know is that it hunted large prey and competed with larger predators which is kinda obvious when you realize it’s the most common predator preserved in the Morrison so we also have a lot of samples to draw from while other theropods are lucky to get 3 individuals

In conclusion: It’s impossible to say “Allosaurus was so quirky and angry” when we literally have no way to compare it to anything else

[frozen basin]

And iirc Cerato was a mesopredator that hunted relatively small prey

I say small, knowing Campto exists

[stiff osprey]

To be fair the fact that it hunted every large animal in its environment remains

[tough parcel]

Erm…scavenging…

[stiff osprey]

that's just what a large predator with no obvious specialization and spread across a massive geographic range does

[frozen basin]

I’m gonna feast on your body

[tough parcel]

Eh, then you can say lions are the honey badgers of the Serengeti and that doesn’t seem right

[last iron]

Honey badgers are the honey badgers of the Serengeti

[tough parcel]

Too true honestly

[frozen basin]

🏗️

[stiff osprey]

But what does being a generalist have to do with being a honey badger

[tough parcel]

Allosaurus honey badger is the comparison people make is what I’m trying to illustrate

[stiff osprey]

Humans are generalists, are we the honey badgers of the Chicago? 🤔

[frozen basin]

The actual honey badger:

[stiff osprey]

I mostly see Ceratosaurus honey badger tbh

[sullen cairn]

why is chicago the flagship city of the human race

[tough parcel]

Nah recently, it’s been “Omg Allosaurus attacked everything, such high aggression, truly the honey badger…”

[stiff osprey]

it has tyrannosaurus, spinosaurus, triceratops, stegosaurus, and patagotitan all in one museum, therefore it is the ultimate city

[tough parcel]

Not after I’m done with it

[stiff osprey]

either that or New York

[frozen basin]

Nuh uh

[sullen cairn]

may i suggest branson, missouri

[tough parcel]

Considering it has Spinosaurus, there is only a matter of time before Spino’s natural predator arrives

[frozen basin]

Me

[tough parcel]

A B2 bomber

[white matrix]

So in short...
Tarbo: Large prey
Allo: Generalist
Sucho & Bary: Fish
Carno: Small-Mid prey
Velo: Small-Mid prey
Dilo: Small prey
Coelur, Segi, Compy: Really small prey
Troodon: Really small-Small prey

[stiff osprey]

Anyway the Allosaurus honey badger comparison is dumb because a) Allosaurus is not a small burrowing omnivore and b) most interactions between honey badgers and other animals consist of the honey badger getting bodied

[tough parcel]

Pop culture view of a honey badger*

[frozen basin]

"But-but pop culture said honey badger is invincible”

The actual honey badger when a leopard or anything bigger pulls up:

[white matrix]

And Rexy is solo and would focus on large prey

[tough parcel]

Also you can’t disprove Allosaurus wasn’t a small burrowing omnivore early in life

Something something niche partitioning

[stiff osprey]

Small ✅
Burrowing 🇽
Omnivore ❔

Behold, the... 33-50% honey badger?

[tough parcel]

Trug

[white matrix]

Also from my understanding Elaphrosaurus is a predator as a juvenile and becomes an herbivore in adulthood? So young Elaphro would compete with the other really small carnis

[tough parcel]

I thought that was only confirmed for Berthasaura or whatever the stupid thing’s name is

[frozen basin]

The what now?

[stiff osprey]

we don't have Elaphro's skull, so it could be a carnivore or a herbivore

(or both)

[sullen cairn]

morrison abelisaur is honey badger

[white matrix]

Oh yeah then there's the reintroduced Herreras. Would they thrive or die out again lol

[sullen cairn]

i keep forgetting we're talking about jp here

[white matrix]

Imagine going extinct on three seperate occassions

[stiff osprey]

if the raptor population is stable any medium sized carnivore without superpowers is screwed

[white matrix]

Well it depends on preferred habitat

[surreal stone]

lol

[white matrix]

We see from TLW that the raptors tend to lean towards open areas. Any medium sized carnivore that prefers denser foliage (ex. Dilo) would be fine me thinks

[stiff osprey]

Dilo is excused because it has a different hunting method on top of the environment, and can effectively defend itself

[white matrix]

The only carni in the raptors' size range that would be thoroughly screwed would be Mono I think

[tough parcel]

Bro guys holy heck, look at this Spinosaurus from La Brea (The TV show)

[white matrix]

Terato is also screwed

[tranquil quartz]

Whats the thing thats got hold of its throat

[tough parcel]

Probably another Spinosaurus

[white matrix]

If we use the JPtG Herrera as reference for Herrera's coloration.... Yeah no Scanova's right they're outta here, too

[stiff osprey]

Given La Brea has a T.rex that's 20 meters tall I'm really curious how big the Spino is

[frozen basin]

At least 3

[white matrix]

So outside some carnis poofing, Rexy and the Mosa being the soul reps of their species and some pressure on the native fauna I can see Nublar stabilizing

Just ignore the Tylo roaming the open ocean

I'm sure nothing will come from that

man I thought I saw mention of la brea tarpits

[fossil ingot]

Is there a link for this?

[tough parcel]

https://youtu.be/Qpt_dVovml4?si=9Fm3dlRnWZpuYhcF

[fossil ingot]

Yeah its another spino

[fossil ingot]

Really? Its 20 meters tall?

[stiff osprey]

I mean I didn't go and measure it, but it's at least 3x bigger than a real rex

If that's its footprint

[fossil ingot]

In the trailer doesn't seem so big

Looks like CC T-Rex lol

Def bigger then Irl tho
Reminds me of JP/JW Rexes
Head reminds me of Big Eatie lol

Actually, its basically JP/JW Rex lol

[tranquil quartz]

JP has tylo?

[white matrix]

JPtG, not canon but I included it for fun

[lavish frigate]

Ok….whys it have the JP3 coloration…..and why are there dinosaurs in a show called La Brea

Dang this just reminds me how much I want realistic primeval….

Oh Just watched that trailer clip with the Rex….that sucks

[sudden wind]

I hate how every fricking show has to take on Jurassic Park inspired designs

[lavish frigate]

You say inspired like there is ever any inspiration or care put into them

That la brea rex thing is literally just copy paste JP Rex asset

[ancient crystal]

I think its about recognizability over anything else. I'm sure a fairly large amount of people would look at a modern paleo accurate rex and not know what the hell it is.

But most people can look at a JP rex type design and know it is rex

[tough parcel]

I genuinely do not know what word is blocked here, but this is what I said

[scenic flame]

'fingered' ?

[stiff osprey]

I am fairly certain that an accurate T.rex is just as recognizable as a JP rex considering the tiny two arms

[scenic flame]

dear god, I was right

[tough parcel]

Guh

[stiff osprey]

I love the implication that you can get around the censor by just putting ' ' around the word

[tough parcel]

I am crying so much

[white matrix]

'fuck' yea

[tough parcel]

GRAHHH

[junior dawn]

lmao

[tough parcel]

Also this doesn't mean the same thing 😭 Of course it has two arms

[stiff osprey]

I know, I was looking for which word was censored

[alpine island]

Does anyone have a good Onchopristis restoration/skeletal

[white matrix]

tyler greenfield

[alpine island]

dang, a buddy of mine actually used to be in contact with him a couple years ago

[steady rock]

wasnt it set in the cenezoic/ice age

[tough parcel]

Yea lmao, but idk what happened

[plain stirrup]

accurate?

[woeful falcon]

Besides having crocodile skin plastered all over it and standing on its knuckles, I've seen worse

[fossil ingot]

Wasn't this what Spino could eat?? Or Am I outdated lmao

[woeful falcon]

Tail prolly isn't long enough since that was a more recent revelation

[clever sable]

It only stands on it's knuckles for one animation

[woeful falcon]

Ik, but standing on its knuckles at all it probably wouldn't do

[compact leaf]

yeah it just does it to stretch and I think to roar, it doesn't put much weight on it

[fossil ingot]

I like that skin

[compact leaf]

and in fairness we don't really know what is going on with its front limbs

[clever sable]

Yeah but overall if it's just one animation it's not super important

[fossil ingot]

True

[compact leaf]

two of the skins also don't have the whole croc skin thing going on

[woeful falcon]

They asked if it was accurate, I pointed the few things that were less than plausible ha

[tough parcel]

Tbf, the fingerbone we (might) have according to Ibrahim's skeletal shows a hand that is significantly not weight-bearing

[compact leaf]

oh I'm not arguing or anything, if it was walking like that it would raise some concerns but I'm just pointing out that there's some gray area

[woeful falcon]

Knuckles have been out of the picture in favor of palm for some time now

[tough parcel]

Even then, quadrupedal Spino in general is out of here

[compact leaf]

is it ibrahim that's doing stuff with the arms right now?

supposedly doing stuff with the arms right now

[tough parcel]

Iirc the arms are a paleo-Internet myth

If @stiff osprey wants to confirm cause they're god or something, idk Spino lore

[woeful falcon]

Gross, that's news to me if true. I was under the impression there was arm material, just not excavated (or at least wasn't at the time of hearing this)

[compact leaf]

I've been out of the spino lore loop for a minute now too

[stiff osprey]

I was pinged, but every message between 30 minutes ago and the last two does not show up

[fossil ingot]

I am loving there Spino tho ngl

[tough parcel]

Spino arm paper: Is it a myth or fact?

[woeful falcon]

And the existence of said material generally

[stiff osprey]

Myth, people genuinely hopiumed it into existance

[woeful falcon]

Damn, you hate to see it

[compact leaf]

I had a hunch but it stings to know it isn't on the way

[woeful falcon]

Hopium a kenyan giant paper up for me will ya

[stiff osprey]

There is more Spinosaurus arm material than what the neotype has, but it has all been described already except for one bone (the third finger's claw)

[fossil ingot]

I love Spino with huge arms like this
Hope it doesn't have T-Rex size arms lmao

[sullen cairn]

Hey chat, I haven’t been keeping up do date with spino. Spinofaarus, am I right lol! Does anyone here know if sereno published his spinosaurus arm paper! Thank you all!

[light osprey]

Lots of Suchian inspiration for the scales I see

[tough parcel]

Our mighty overlord has provided for us

[stiff osprey]

ow

[compact leaf]

big meaty claws

[sullen cairn]

If spinosaurus doesn’t have arms, how’d you reconstruct them? Curious.

[fossil ingot]

Based on Sucho and Bary probably
Or some relatives

[tough parcel]

Sobbing

[sullen cairn]

The more parsimonious conclusion would be that spinosaurus doesn’t have arms

[light osprey]

Make em small, Theropod arm allometry or something

[fossil ingot]

[tough parcel]

Or that they were so small, they never preserved...like how eyes don't grow at all. Adult Spinosaurus had hatchling sized arms

[compact leaf]

real and true

[fossil ingot]

I like my boi having Big Arms so nuh nuh

I do love their Carcha tho
At first I didn't like it but now I love it

[stiff osprey]

"Haha Spinosaurus keeps getting downgraded, next year I bet we'll find its arms had abelisaur proportions"
The 75cm humerus in question:

[light osprey]

Man, I need to play PK again

[sullen cairn]

The phalange in random’s basement:

Although seeing what happened with judithian tyrannosaurus I’m starting to think it would barely change anything even if that got out

[compact leaf]

more like the entire arm lurking somewhere in serenos dungeon

[sullen cairn]

Which is described in a two-page description

[compact leaf]

right next to the jobaria holotype that hasn't had any work done in ages but is beautifully preserved

[fossil ingot]

My Favorite of its Family
Probably my 2nd Favorite dino behind Spino

[clever sable]

Wings obviously

[white matrix]

Man Rex is always getting flack for its tiny arms meanwhile Carcha:

[white matrix]

carcharo seems to have longer arms than rex

Still little af

have you seen abelisaurs

Yes, yes I have

[tough parcel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/349988940138283009/1182693421727625318/image.png?ex=658eda95&is=657c6595&hm=4dbb1ce3e08784303dbf350bd069606b773e5254c8d6fc22ea55fcf37ab0c386&

Giga and rex arms

[white matrix]

Pretty comparable imo

[light osprey]

The paper we deserved but not the one we needed

[little mauve]

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(22)00860-0?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0960982222008600%3Fshowall%3Dtrue it's this paper, basically yeah late deriving carcharodontosaurids and tyrannosaurids have convergently similar fore/hindlimb ratios aka tiny arms, big head

[fossil ingot]

Basically Meraxes provided quite the stuff

[stiff osprey]

This is the REAL Giganotosaurus vs T.rex fight we need... in arm wrestling

[tough parcel]

Issue is the Giga is almost guaranteed to win due to having 3 fingers over Rex’s measly 2 fingers…

[stiff osprey]

As we know from real life, people with 4 fingers always lose at arm wrestling

[compact leaf]

it’s all about wrist control and having one more finger than your opponent

[tough parcel]

Uh yea? Jurassic World taught me that to win a fight, “you need more teeth”
And as such, this is how it works in all fights

[white matrix]

Rebbechisaurs win ALL battles

[light osprey]

The eldritch horror himself

[hallow spear]

Nigersaurus is such a strange creature

[pearl briar]

haha 500 teeth

[tulip dove]

So that's why Nigersaurus survived in its environment

[fossil ingot]

Fr

[torn sluice]

Have yall ever seen this little duder

[snow python]

Liaoningosaurus?

[light osprey]

The great sin of aquatic Ankylosaur

[gaunt pine]

It would be great if that was a mod

[torn sluice]

Yee

[idle juniper]

Have you guys seen the fossil found in the uk recently? Its a pilosaurus (sorry if I misspelled that(

[sand silo]

was on the news, and really overhyped too. kinda looks like Lipleurodon

[idle juniper]

It was for sure overhyped, especially the news calling it a monster lol

But I thought it was super cool

[sand silo]

Yet another fine specimen to add to the collection, however still sad but understandable how they treated the skull as a kaiju.

[acoustic yarrow]

Are there any land croc mods coming like barinasuchus. I don't think that the people making kapro are going to make it a land based croc because it wasn't like that irl

[viscid surge]

Wrong channel

[sour pelican]

Big head small arms just makes me think of abelisaurids

[sour pelican]

In the original book it tells you the numbers before and after they found out that they were breeding, and then after the predators escape it shows the numbers had dropped significantly in prey.

[white matrix]

I am surprised to see table in mammalia

[abstract flame]

Where I can get an image of a scientific Allosaurus fragilis reference?

[serene moat]

The power of velo plot armour makes it even strong enough to 1v1 thanos at this point

[serene moat]

How big would this 75cm humerus be if It's size was adjusted to the 75cm?

[lavish frigate]

Oh yee paleo peeps of PoT discord. Is this half way tail dragging position plausible? Because I love it

[elfin pulsar]

I love the scales on that spino

[heady thunder]

Spinosaurus does what it wants, dont question it

[lavish frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/allo-the-allosaurus-the-isle-islecord-takes-what-it-wants-gif-25299574

Love all these allosaurus GIFS 💀

[abstract flame]

Where I can get an image of a scientific Allosaurus fragilis reference?

[lavish frigate]

This good?

Or like an artist’s depiction?

[abstract flame]

That's awesome, thank you.

[lavish frigate]

Your welcome

[lavish frigate]

I personally like the more smooth scaled skins better but the croc scutes are still cool

[elfin pulsar]

I’m torn between the two

[lavish frigate]

My only thing is that I wish they were fully lipped 😔

[lavish frigate]

Lipped spoon is only spoon

[last iron]

Mf looks depressed

[lavish frigate]

He just filed taxes

[lavish frigate]

He’s happy now

[last iron]

Good

[white matrix]

@tough parcel i remember you answered this

[bright veldt]

Answer is no. Tail vertebrae weren’t really built for it.

[white matrix]

falcon said something of it being possible lemme find it rq

something something with this track, my memory sucks

[light osprey]

Well said

[sour pelican]

Imma be honest I am focused more on the Precambrian era.

[tough parcel]

At work, but on break: Tail dragging is fine as long as no significant weight is put on it. Think of it as holding your arm out and then holding a cardboard stick out. Your arm and some of the stick will be elevated, but the rest of the stick will drop down and because of how long some dinosaur tails are, it is not illogical some had a manner of tail dragging

[lavish frigate]

My boi has been avenged!

[lavish frigate]

So my croco tail man has been proven plausible. Beautiful

[light osprey]

probably didn’t have crocodilian scales

[lavish frigate]

Ik I like smooth spino better anyway

[white matrix]

https://fxtwitter.com/AgateBloodlines/status/1736888667728134153

[coral dragon]

fully lipped spino is just not plausible

its teeth stuck out to the point its lips would have to be absolutely gargantuan and they would also get in the way of teeth while hunting

[lavish frigate]

It is in my heart and that’s all that matters (dabs)

[coral dragon]

...

[lavish frigate]

[clever sable]

Not really, it depends on the skull reconstruction, sometimes the teeth stick out from the sides sometimes they Don't, it varies from reconstruction to reconstructed

[lavish frigate]

Solution: really big pug lips

[white matrix]

bad solution

[clever sable]

Also we don't even know if this is spinosaurus

[coral dragon]

skull looks like a spinosaurid idk

[coral dragon]

reptiles can't have saggy mammalian lips

[clever sable]

We know it's a spinosaurid but we don't know if it's spinosaurus specifically so currently it's just called Spinosaurinae indent

[lavish frigate]

(Twas a joke)

[coral dragon]

yeah ik

honestly a huge fan of the PK spino tbh

[heady thunder]

I find the croc scutes too tacky, otherwise its very cool

[coral dragon]

thats only like one skin iirc

[heady thunder]

Skin? You mean variant or

[lavish frigate]

This based man

[white matrix]

this too

[lavish frigate]

Lion boi

[lavish frigate]

I really want PK so bad

[white matrix]

sometimes I forget how extensive interbreeding can be among mammoth species 😭

[tight bramble]

what game is this from???

[lavish frigate]

Prehistoric kingdom

[tight bramble]

thank you ^

[storm heron]

I wonder whether this is possible for Spinosaurus or other Spinosaurids?

[tough parcel]

If you use the snout tip as Spino, the front half of the snout cannot be lipped at all

[white matrix]

@light osprey My fav locality la brea tar pits

[light osprey]

This is what I’ve been looking for 👐

[white matrix]

a key too all by the mongoosedude

[light osprey]

Absolutely delicious

[white matrix]

I'm surprised with how there is only two proboscideans

but with the amount of ungulates competition be like

[light osprey]

Ungulates will diversify if there is the slightest bit of vegetation available

[lavish frigate]

Dang it I was responding to that image

[white matrix]

Mb fam, wanted to post this instead

[lavish frigate]

I was gonna comment on his big ol silly tusks

[white matrix]

Larramendi has scaled a lot of proboscidean stuff

[lavish frigate]

I wonder if prehistoric elephants had similar mourning behaviors to modern elephants

[light osprey]

I say yes, cause it’s cool to think about 😎

[idle lance]

What did the camelops dude, the second bison thing on the size and the bigger horse eat

[white matrix]

B. antiquus (showed a more diverse diet) and Camelops (we can assume it exhibited dietary variability from browsing to non-strict grazing), Equus occidentalis was a strict grazer (having the least dietary variability). Although camelops ecology needs a better understanding afaik.

[idle lance]

Is this like Morrison?

@light osprey

The niches seem to be like the Morrison

[white matrix]

How so

Grass hadn't evolved either

[frosty anvil]

oh woah those markings!! interesting take on feline markings, you dont rlly see im in that gingery color a whole lot

[pearl briar]

is aquilops valid?

[surreal stone]

I know this wasent for me but this is incredibly helpful, thankyou 💖

[snow python]

How accurate is this Spino figure?

[eager sleet]

ку

[white matrix]

Nah it's for everyone I just wanted to show Chonk because he was eager to find something like this

[clever sable]

The tail should be a bit longer maybe? And the sail should have a dip in the middle but overall it's very good

[surreal stone]

oh, well thanks again

[white matrix]

np

[idle lance]

Hey paleo chat who would you say is the biggest cenozoic nerd here, Pronto Sharl?

[native kindle]

squirrel:)

[idle lance]

doyouknow?

[idle lance]

(pleaseits important)

[native kindle]

i know that right there's a squirrel

[tulip gyro]

it just dont has overlapping material that a aegypticus has

[white matrix]

what is larramendi up to

[flint stream]

Can we said that probocidian family structure like matriarc, the aunties, the mother, and calf have been revolving around back in pleistocene. I was wondering if those other ancient probocidian like platybelodon, ambelodon, moertherium are indeed probocidian but modern probocidian like Loroxdonta africanus and Elephant maximus having family structure from the elder female/ lead female and other female in same family. Would be true thing ?

[white matrix]

Well platybeldon, ambelodon, and moertherium aren't pleistocene but herd structure similar to modern elephants could be the same during the pleistocene.

[flint stream]

So they still have same social structure similare to elephant actually

Ohhhhh

[white matrix]

You can say that, We have Mleisa 1 tracks (from miocene) which provide direct evidence that late miocene proboscideans displayed both herding and solitary behaviors

resembling those of modern elephants

[flint stream]

Ooohhh, so its not just modern day and other plestocene probocididae. But miocene to

Alr

[white matrix]

it could suggest continuity of similar social behaviors into the Pleistocene, need more evidence for this though.

[flint stream]

I should find these paper. Sound so intresting to me, i was thoight that only pleistocene probocididae having social structure like elephant do but miocene one are

[white matrix]

There was a solitary male traveling in another direction as well

[flint stream]

The black dots right ? And the blue one are the female

[white matrix]

blue is the herd, black is the solitary male, correct

[flint stream]

Soo facinating seeing these guys are. They probably live in small herds maybe up to 5-8 idividuals.

[white matrix]

Actually there was 13 individuals in this trackway

[flint stream]

13, where this rock formation dated back from ?

[white matrix]

Early Miocene, the owner of these trackways probably being Stegotetrabelodon

[flint stream]

early miocene. Wow

[white matrix]

Baynunah Formation specifically.

[flint stream]

Africa, if i was correct ?

[white matrix]

Yep, United Arab Emirates

[flint stream]

Middle east,

[white matrix]

reasoning because stego's abundance and was most likely to inhabit open habitats.

[flint stream]

Presume to be open savanna or grassland. Elephant are indeed both grazer and browser

[white matrix]

late miocene sorry, not early.

[flint stream]

Oh nvm so ites late miocene. Since name of stegotetrabelodont in my mind its miocene

[white matrix]

this is the art i could find on the formation

[flint stream]

That 4 straight tusked elephant i know them. Know them just bc i heard them from game ancestor humankind odessey

How can this scene in life of our planet Smilodon populator interacting doerocherus like any feline scraching on some tree or sign post or any harded object

[heady thunder]

Well, look at it, not like the big ass armadillo is going to go anywhere

[flint stream]

Probably my favorite scene on life of our planet how smilodon interacting prehistoric armadilo. Not to mention how silly the smilodon interacting the doedeocherus to. I love the concept of feline

[white matrix]

*Life On Our Planet
*Doedicurus

[heady thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/sponge-nerd-spongebob-bora-nerd-spongebob-bora-book-jimindvd-gif-gif-25285919

[fallow citrus]

about the tail, it’s actually curved! it’s hard to see but this image shows it well

[lavish frigate]

Is the dip thing even a proven fact? I don’t think we know the order of the sail actually

[bright veldt]

We don’t really know exactly how the sail looked. Just the general idea.

[tulip gyro]

when will we get that

[clever sable]

We are pretty sure it had a dip

[tulip gyro]

u have the paper for that ?

[clever sable]

Not from a paper, however we do know that most other spinosaurs had a dip of some kind and the way the vertebrae are arranged imply it had a dip

Well there is actually a paper that mentions a dip, the 2014 neotype description

[bright veldt]

Most other spinosaurs dont have a dip though? It’s just ichthyovenator

[tulip gyro]

thats just based on the neotype but we cannot know for sure if it had a dip

[tulip gyro]

Sigilmassasaurus had probaly a dip too

[light osprey]

That’s a sacral dip as well

[tulip gyro]

if we dont count the juvenile theory

[serene hemlock]

why is the male going in a different direction? shouldnt it be with le herd

like leading the herd

[viscid surge]

The carnotaurus returns

[jagged trellis]

elephants and such have a different lifestyle, females staying in larger end herds and doing all the roles while males go alone and rarely come around to any herd

[serene hemlock]

so you are saying thats the reason?

[jagged trellis]

yeah, just lifestyle differences

[elfin pulsar]

I mean there are multiple reasons there could be a lone male not in a herd, we have animals today that do that

[serene hemlock]

like?

[jagged trellis]

it doesn't like em, or got kicked out, or just wandered off for its own goal, just elephants have em alone consistently

[elfin pulsar]

Adult male elephants lol

[serene hemlock]

why would extinct ones do the same though

[elfin pulsar]

Why wouldn’t they

[jagged trellis]

similar niches and being closely related does that to ya, alongside: it worked...atleast for the most part

[serene hemlock]

because they arent african elephants

[elfin pulsar]

Just because an animal does something doesn’t mean other older animals didn’t what

[jagged trellis]

oh i have a feeling this is familiar, anyways we aren't chimpanzees yet we both like pointy sticks

[elfin pulsar]

Ohhhh you’re right, just looked at the account

Time to leave it

[serene hemlock]

well adult male elephants stick with the herd

[jagged trellis]

no