paleontology

[white matrix]

The redos take longer then you think

I’m just too much of a lazy ass to post results when they happen, it doesn’t help you can reasonably reconstruct carch 50 billion ways tho

[sullen cairn]

ngl this aged gracefully

applause to the show for accurately depicting/predicting how three prince creek tyrannosaurs would slaughter a pachyrhinosaur in mere seconds

[light osprey]

That is really beautiful Pachyrhinosaurus model

Goodie me I found some (mostly) high res images

[stiff osprey]

are we tooth scaling again

[sullen cairn]

just the 86-90cm skull estimate from the abstract

how did i misspell estimate

[wide glen]

Don’t you dare pull a troodon

[tough parcel]

How does that relate to Troodon?

[light osprey]

Clearly you haven’t heard of the Troodon cranium material (I made it up)

[white matrix]

https://tenor.com/view/dawg-skull-emoji-gif-24661581

[sullen cairn]

i can't believe i'm in a timeline where i'm being prevented from upsizing a ceratopsid by gat of all people

giant hartman vs normal-sized gat
sophie's choice fr

although gat's scaling is like the same size as gsp's estimate which is either good or bad and i'm not sure which yet

[tough parcel]

Tbf, GSP has dorsals that look like they were run over by a steamroller, so always go for the larger estimate vs his

[sullen cairn]

i meant length
the big hartman pinhead is actually the same weight as gsp's for some reason because gsp's albertaceratops is obscenely heavy for its length

but the objectively shorter gat skeletal is also the same length as said gsp estimate which is totally not confusing

i must now shove said gat skeletal into neutral so my eyes don't bleed

[sullen cairn]

ngl gat's looks kinda stupid

but that might just be cause i've been looking at hartman's too much

meanwhile gat's sinoceratops is even larger than both albertaceratops despite having a skull like the same size
skull scaling of all time here folks

actually i think gat's is just anorexic

or smushed i can't tell

this shouldn't be so stupid for two skeletal's scaled with the same postcrania

jesus christ

[storm heron]

Individual variation less go

[tough parcel]

The individual variation within the individual…

[storm heron]

Also Albertoceratops head is huge,

[sullen cairn]

Literally the only good thing I could find with a scalebar was from gat so let’s hope that’s accurate

That or trying to retrofit half of it from the description onto Hartman’s but that sounds like a terrible idea and I’m 40% sure the figure was at an angle

[sharp knot]

this people from #modding is what im talking about this vid sums it up pretty well but feel free to ask me any questions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWP2q1ypTSY

[lost moth]

Cenozoic animals

[storm heron]

I think these should be in #art-channel

That being said, absolutely amazing artwork

[bright veldt]

Yeah, everything suggest it really was the equivalent of a grizzly. Just really big.

[white matrix]

Common @chilly knot W

[spring cairn]

Does anyone else remember when dinosaurs look like this

[gaunt raven]

Yeah I remember waking up and walking around and seeing them basking on the river beds, those were the days

[cloud bane]

i'm deeply confused why the human for scale appears to be some kind of sorceress

[tough parcel]

People need to stop complaining about the human scale

Would you rather a t-posed black silhouette of a generic man/woman with no soul or character?

[stiff osprey]

At least it's a human with normal (ish? i can't really tell) size and proportions

When it's a four foot tall girl with 3ft of legs and 10cm of waist it does kinda defeat the purpose of putting a human for scale

[chilly knot]

Finally, a man of taste and culture...

[ancient crystal]

Idk, humanoid abomination scaling for skeletals could totally take off if everyone started doing it

[tough parcel]

Hey, my women are 5 foot tall

[light osprey]

Yes

[vocal breach]

We need to all as a community agree that we should use Jerma985 as a reference for our human scales

[tough parcel]

I will die before I use a guy as a scale reference (I am biased against males)

[chilly knot]

this is just boring

[stiff osprey]

It's just a human with weird clothes

[vocal breach]

I love men, we are not the same

[white matrix]

I do like fadenos human scale thos won't lie

[chilly knot]

I should use shrek next time

[white matrix]

use jerma trust

[lyric fossil]

why is there 2 bars

[chilly knot]

Idk if you pinged the wrong message

[lyric fossil]

your the creator so i am asking u

[chilly knot]

because why not

this is very helpful for people who wanna make size charts

[lyric fossil]

good point now what bout the evolution in the teeth what happens

[ancient crystal]

Is that chatgpt man again?

[stiff osprey]

yep

[white matrix]

@bitter oasis

[frozen basin]

What?

[iron halo]

Ty kangaroo for deleting that quickly

[frozen basin]

What was it

[iron halo]

I’ll DM ya

[light osprey]

Not again

[steep needle]

this is some committed trolling

[bitter oasis]

Thank you for the ping! if another suspicious account shows up again do feel free to tag us.

[white matrix]

Funny how it’s always paleo chat

[tough parcel]

Cause it’s an active chat but it doesn’t have too much activity where the mods are always watching

[frozen basin]

Dinosaur (I think)

[clever sable]

Unironically yes

[hoary wind]

Life on Our Planet Gorgonopsid Asset

Gorgonopsid face with teeth showing

[bright veldt]

It’s not very good honestly. The teeth in particular are a yikes.

[hoary wind]

Not very good as opposed to what exactly?

[white matrix]

Yeah I have to agree with Archetypes here, the LOOP Gorgonopsid is a step up in terms of design from a lot of other documentaries imo

Plus the model looks a lot better in the scenes it was used for anyways

[hoary wind]

Sure its not 100% accurate but considering this for a general audience not paleo nerds specifically, this asset is perfect for displaying that these animals were forerunners to mammals, not reptiles, and definitely NOT dinosaurs

[white matrix]

I particularly like the choice of adding lips

[hoary wind]

Same, love it's boxy head

[compact leaf]

it’s certainly a step up from their dinosaurs

[white matrix]

Out of the dinos that appeared I think Rex looked the best

[gaunt raven]

Rex definitely was the best but it still wasn’t great

[hoary wind]

Either that or the Juvenile Sinraptor

[white matrix]

Still amused that a Rex got cockblocked by a space rock

[hoary wind]

Worst day in history to get down with business

[gaunt raven]

Fr

[white matrix]

I also liked the terror bird territorial dance scene

[gaunt raven]

I love this design I must say

[hoary wind]

Lystrosaurus and Eythrosuchus were also pretty awesome

[white matrix]

Also so happy to see Anomalocaris in a modern documentary

https://tenor.com/view/anomalocaris-meme-heartlock-my-beloved-anomalocaris-my-beloved-gif-2792515691144660477

[hoary wind]

Arthropleura too looked awesome

[white matrix]

The best scene was definitely the Smilo and Doedicurus scene

Just a cat being a cat

[hoary wind]

Loved how the Smilodon basically acted like a housecat and the Doeds were like "bruh, get out here"

The mammals in general were pretty amazing to see, especially Maiacetus, a highly underrated whale forerunner

[white matrix]

The mammoth vs cave lion scene from an ecological standpoint was disappointing.

[bright veldt]

The WWM gorgo is still better overall tmk, although some things have aged with it

The scenes featuring titanis, erythrosuchus, allosaurus, and cave lion are all easily the worst scenes by far. I’m surprised they were given the pass at all.

[vocal breach]

I wanna see a predator get stomped by the big elephant

[white matrix]

I feel like the Dunkelosteus scenes could have been better

[bright veldt]

There’s nothing really wrong with them. Keep in mind the scene was in production before goldfish dunk most likely

[white matrix]

Is there still a debate on whether Dunk had lips or not?

[bright veldt]

It’s an on and off thing. It’s personal preference. I’ve seen golden reconstructions with and without them.

[crude latch]

Nah those Lystros we’re dum af they we’re practically letting that Ethryo eat ‘em, like bro how do you not see that big ah head from a mile away

[white matrix]

Oh Anthracosaurus was also pretty neat imo

Wish we spent more time exploring the Carboniferous amphibians

[crude latch]

Same altho I am sad we only really saw Arthro for the bugs

[white matrix]

Well we did also get dragonflies, clearly referring to Meganeura

[crude latch]

True

[white matrix]

Granted Meganeura was never properly namedropped

[crude latch]

Mmmm imagine if we could breath with our skin

[white matrix]

Well that took a sudden turn

[crude latch]

Wonder what swimming would be like

[hoary wind]

Believe it or not we can actually absorb oxygen through our skin, its extremely slow though and definitely not like an amphibian

[crude latch]

Hmmmmm

[white matrix]

Cave lion being depicted as white colouration
Reality they would have been brownish/red
LOOP ignores this

[crude latch]

Yk it’s crazy to think how much many bug species have barley changed ever since they came into existence

[hoary wind]

Also the lystrosaurus were not dumb, they never evolved an instinctual fear to predators, especially since the earth was practically devoid of life after the Great Dying

[white matrix]

Mammoth calf gets taken down to easily (irl sometimes a single lion can struggle to take down a baby elephant)

Herd has more numbers yet chooses to not help that calf.

[hoary wind]

Hence the reference to the dodo

[crude latch]

That’s true I just thought it was funny af seeing them get yanked and then the others just being like “ Meh not my problem “

[white matrix]

I do agree the cave lion and mammoth scene was silly

[jagged trellis]

wasn't even silly, just flat out bad

[hoary wind]

Its basically the same thing with the dodo and the Europeans

[crude latch]

Poor dodos 😭

[white matrix]

To be fair to the Dodo, it wasn't exactly dumb, just couldn't adapt to the new threats

[scarlet moon]

Too friend shaped

[crude latch]

To derp

[white matrix]

Humans weren't the only threat, we also brought cats, dogs, rats and pigs that would kill the dodos and eat their single eggs

[crude latch]

They ran out of melons

[hoary wind]

Basically what happened to the lystrosaurus, they were everywhere in the southern hemisphere but new species appeared, predation and competition pushed them towards extinction while new dicynodonts appeared to take advantage of new ecological niches

[white matrix]

Me when Lisowicia

[crude latch]

Ok but like why tf does ethryo have such a megamind

[white matrix]

It works out at the library

[crude latch]

DX

[hoary wind]

Evolution gets pretty wild after mass extinction events, Eythrosuchus evolved a big head likely for a powerful bite

[steady rock]

how much did albertosaurus weigh?

[crude latch]

Hopefully more then your MO-

[white matrix]

that kinda implies predators just popped into existence from thin air

[stiff osprey]

2.5-3 tonnes

[bright veldt]

They also were largely solitary

Them being social is a remnant of when they were considered a paleo subspecies of modern lions.

With that out of the way nowadays it’s been put under a lot more scrunity.

[hoary wind]

I forgot that they also showed off a member of the Otodus shark genus during the Maiacetus scene

[white matrix]

Now the question is which Otodus species was it

also minor and unrelated criticism but ive noticed the predators in loop do an excessive amount of snarling/growling when hunting which is odd

hunts seem way too easy too

I only really noticed that with Ino. As for the speed of hunts I imagine it's a time constraints thing

[scarlet moon]

Tbf it could help with intimidation scaring prey is beneficial

[white matrix]

Not mention a lot of times fights in nature don't last long anyways

[jagged trellis]

but they also don't end in 2 seconds fair bit of time as well, stalking planning waiting and possible endurance hunting for some cases

[light osprey]

From the few scenes I’ve watched the designs aren’t an issue as much as those very stiff animations

[white matrix]

The whole mammoth herd being scared of 5 lions and not even trying to scare them off never fails to confuse me.

[crude latch]

Except for the allo 💀

[light osprey]

Movement is much more distracting than the model even then

[compact leaf]

the diplodocus is pretty bad in both regards

[white matrix]

iirc they depicted sauropods with triceratops?

[tough parcel]

Not…wrong wrong, but the whole environment and implied location is wrong (Unless they explicitly said it’s Hell Creek)

[sudden wind]

They depicted sauropod gallop..something that should have been kept in Pandora's box!

[bright veldt]

Yeah that was pretty cringe

[scenic flame]

a big sauropod at that

[cloud bane]

Speaking of galloping, how exactly did ceratopsians run? was it the awkward 'pooped my pants' shuffle we see in PoT or could they actually shmove?

[gaunt raven]

Depends on the ceratopsian, smaller ones most definitely ran like you’d imagine but the bigger ones did the shuffle

[lunar copper]

iirc alb has a pretty darn good run animation for its size, i think its best to assume thats the "basic" run for a lot of ceratopsians about alb's size and higher

[bright veldt]

Yeah Alberta’s run is basically how ceratopsid running would go

[gaunt raven]

Yeah exactly

[cloud bane]

ah, a shame, poor things are relegated to the truffle shuffle

[light osprey]

They are all huge so it’s not uncharacteristic

[gaunt raven]

Protoceratops: 👁️👄👁️

[sullen cairn]

this is a very real alb size

[gaunt raven]

Very real

[white matrix]

Small Alberta, or giant woman? Hmmm

[light osprey]

Both?

[sullen cairn]

so um

turns out tiny albert is actually more than likely correct

[white matrix]

[outer tusk]

By Falcon9 if Albertaceratops was accurate

[white matrix]

RIP

[outer tusk]

Man I wish POT was accurate 🙂

[white matrix]

no

[eager skiff]

What tyrannosaurid is this?

[sullen cairn]

daspletosaurus torosus

[steady rock]

aint no way

[eager skiff]

Alr

[outer tusk]

Daspletosaurus

[west coral]

why table, why

[light oxide]

Wait wait -- Albertaceratops got downsized?!?!

[sullen cairn]

My attempts at downsizing the giant Hartman one kinda spiraled outta control

The monkeys paw strikes again

On the bright side I downsized bruhath another 50cm

[light oxide]

So is the size on the charts above the correct size for Albertaceratops now, or nah?

[tough parcel]

Posting this with names

[light oxide]

PoT Alberta downsize when?

[gaunt raven]

WHAT

How do you know this?

[sullen cairn]

spirtual discernment

[gaunt raven]

Oh sick

[white matrix]

Table is this an adult Alberta?

[tough parcel]

Yes

[white matrix]

WTF so this downsize happened today?

[clever sable]

Are your downsizes even reliable? Or are they just things you goof around with

[sullen cairn]

his ass is NOT 6m!

[white matrix]

I don’t think table goofly upsizes/downsizes stuff

[clever sable]

Upsize sarco plez, base it's size on that of terminonaris HW

[tough parcel]

Table downsizes legitimately, he just acts goofy (Like me fr)

[woeful falcon]

I feel like clarifying the downsize would help, like elaborating on the process and reasoning

[white matrix]

Yeah I’m sort of loss at words

[sullen cairn]

alright gimme a sec

[clever sable]

Like stego fr (I don't even know what stego does)

[woeful falcon]

stego gdi's stuff

[white matrix]

which stego? Derpy.Stego or xStego

[woeful falcon]

if you had to guess lol

[clever sable]

Ah ok, I wasn't exactly sure what he did, he basically just acts goofy all the time, thank you for informing me of this

[white matrix]

xStego gdis extinct snakes I think

[woeful falcon]

xstego hasn't even talked in paleo chat once

[sullen cairn]

tininess is also supported from the skull being demonstrably tiny as shown here

[clever sable]

So uh, did you make a bruhathkayosaurus size comparison ever? Because Ik you downsized it

[sullen cairn]

tiny alberts

[sullen cairn]

compared to my last one or sauropod bruhath?
cause falcon has one for the latter

[clever sable]

Last one

[sullen cairn]

sure one sec

[light osprey]

Why does it say theory

[sullen cairn]

scaled with grillcourt raja length instead of justice's

[clever sable]

What is the estimated mass?

[sullen cairn]

~1950kg, maybe lighter

1950kg is prolly fine though

[clever sable]

What would it take for me to convince you to make an estimate for sarcos size based on terminonaris

[sullen cairn]

me to be good at scaling crocs

[white matrix]

bro wants sarco upsized bad

[sullen cairn]

i feel like asking me to upsize something is a terrible idea considering what just happened with alberta

[woeful falcon]

table can you do something for me

[sullen cairn]

sure

[woeful falcon]

I want to see how MOR 692 is size wise when you throw its skull onto the appropriate body, nasuto or furcato whichever is more appropriate

[sullen cairn]

on it

[clever sable]

EZ, just use head width, sarcos head is 2x wider than something else, multiple the thing that sarcos head is 2 times wider than and bam you have length

(Basically)

[woeful falcon]

furcato is known from a subadult so idk if that makes it a bad choice where postcranial anatomy is concerned, but its between it and nasuto for more mature nasutoceratopins

[white matrix]

You talk about sarco too much

[clever sable]

Yes, yes I do

[white matrix]

What I’m saying, it’s genuinely making me hate sarco

[woeful falcon]

I have similar reservations when it comes to Saurophaganax

[light osprey]

Be based like me and vary your taxon focus weekly

[glad carbon]

But sarco 😦 (sarco fans are just crocodile fanatics with no other outlets considering it’s the only croc in the game)

[sullen cairn]

be like me and ruin everything

[white matrix]

Now that’s based

[light osprey]

Vased indeed

[sullen cairn]

i can't believe devs would overtune alberta like this!!! herbi bias!!!!!!

[clever sable]

Nah I just like sarco the most

[glad carbon]

Whahhhhhh? Why?

[clever sable]

Wait, so what does Alberta look like compared to sty now

[clever sable]

Because it's just my favorite Prehistoric animal

[clever sable]

Smol

[white matrix]

We need an actual croc guy in this chat (no bias towards sarco)

[sullen cairn]

lmao

[glad carbon]

Sry for asking why again but why

[light osprey]

we should scale some Maastrichtian mammal teeth

[white matrix]

Pleistocene heel bone scaling ftw

[light osprey]

Metatheria are cool and rad

[clever sable]

Deinosuchus is pretty awesome, easily one of my favorite creatures

[glad carbon]

So cool

[white matrix]

bro only talks about carnivora

[clever sable]

I also talk about sauropods, I have a love for the big dubious sauropods

[woeful falcon]

what's your guys's favorite sauropod

[light osprey]

Too many

[white matrix]

hot take: Europasaurus

[clever sable]

But in all seriousness dreadnoughtus is my favorite

[white matrix]

Inform me on diplo’s ecological niche

[woeful falcon]

small lil brachiosaur looking guy, I vibe with it.

maraa I don't vibe with but that can be said about the majority of those giants.

Omei now that I like. Big fan of mamenchisaurs

[light osprey]

Wait wait, I think I figured out a favorite Sauropod

[clever sable]

So, basically (at least to my knowledge) instead of feeding on tall trees it would feed in foliage closer to the ground, but contrary to popular belief it may not have held it's Neck in a low hanging position

[glad carbon]

Why on earth would your neck need to get that long

[light osprey]

Aeolosaurus because it’s a megafaunal animal that shows full continental distribution in the fossil record

[white matrix]

The real question is what’s everyone’s favourite ungulate 😈

[woeful falcon]

oh that's a toughie. A whale obviously but which one

[light osprey]

Bigger = better silly

[woeful falcon]

its probably between orcas, humpbacks and gray whales tbh

[clever sable]

Uhhhhhh idk, because I don't exactly know what that is? I feel like it's deer so I'm gonna say red deer

[woeful falcon]

what are some cool prehistoric ones tho, excluding whales

[white matrix]

Wait what- today I realize whales are ungulates 😳

[sullen cairn]

sable antelope

hippotragines just look cool

[woeful falcon]

you're welcome

[white matrix]

now to taunt table favourite abelisaur that’s a tooth taxa

[light osprey]

I was reminded of Plataleorostrum recently, that’s a cute guy

[white matrix]

(don’t answer)

[sullen cairn]

there's only two and i don't care about either of em
unless you wanna count cf. megalosaurus crenatissimus but that's a referral not a taxon

[woeful falcon]

how many named genera of abelisaurs founded on teeth are there

[bright veldt]

Did getawaytrike get the scalebar wrong then for Alberta's skull? This is what I referenced for the OG size chart

[sullen cairn]

evidently

[woeful falcon]

how big is that guy

[light osprey]

He looks huge (maintaining the headcanon)

[bright veldt]

keep in mind the front half is also missing lol. It's already like half the guy's length even disregarding the fact it's farther back

[woeful falcon]

hoping that guy is just a behemoth also

[light osprey]

The guy in front of him must also be huge

[sullen cairn]

i wish

[white matrix]

What about the guy in the back 🤔

[bright veldt]

That doesn't look like it adds up to me

[light osprey]

That’s who I am referring to

[bright veldt]

Again with the image, it's slightly farther back than the person in the frame, and it's at a back angle. The brow horns to the horns at the top of the frill look much longer than what you depicted there.

[sullen cairn]

there's two figures with scalebars at that length

and its not like a small basal centrosaurine is weird either

[light osprey]

Albertaceratops lived on a marginal island in the WIS. Clearly this is insular dwarfism (please don’t repost this, I am lying)

[bright veldt]

ik I'm just saying

[sullen cairn]

diablo and a foremost skull fragment are only slightly bigger than this

[woeful falcon]

I suppose the question would be then, why is GAT's wrong and the other one is right

[light osprey]

Smaller = better

[bright veldt]

The main thing I can think of is if GAT made the scalebar 50 cm and stated it was 1m on accident. But I'd like the know the sources on your end too.

[woeful falcon]

christ if that was the case, GAT buddy its been nearly 4 years lets go make the correction already

[bright veldt]

I'm just trying to confirm both sides here.

[woeful falcon]

mind you issues with a GAT recon probably aren't unheard of

[sullen cairn]

skull itself is using description's scale bars
picture's from royal tyrrel museum

[bright veldt]

Of course, but he's usually really good with ornithschians

So it just caught me off guard

[woeful falcon]

I would like to say that this photo means nothing really. you can't glean any sort of measurement from this

[sullen cairn]

gat's skull is physically impossible considering the museum exhibit

[bright veldt]

Again, I wouldn't use that as a reference when it might be perspective. At least for this particular argument

[sullen cairn]

i know but it kinda discludes gat's size from being even remotely useable

[bright veldt]

Is there an image in the description with a scalebar? I'm trying to find it but can't.

[sullen cairn]

and the only actual precedent for big alberta was a gsp estimate that easily could've been medusaceratops material

[bright veldt]

It doesn't say what the scale bar is tho

[sullen cairn]

10cm

every other figure is 10cm

[light osprey]

So it’s real and true then

[sullen cairn]

and 10cm scalebar is congruent with what the mount seems to be

[bright veldt]

Yep. Just lined it up. GAT had the scalebar as 1m instead of 50cm.

That's an oof.

[sullen cairn]

gat is so wacky and silly sometimes

and the skull/person's shoulder height are bout the same in both so it lines up

like 10% difference which seems fine considering its a blurry angled photo

unfortuantely i don't think this can be chalked up to angle

[light osprey]

Is it immature maybe

[sullen cairn]

this is actually really funny though

[light osprey]

Or two different specimens?

[sullen cairn]

alberta's just the holotype skull and all material was discovered within like 1.5ft of each other

[light osprey]

Yep mb

[sullen cairn]

The well-developed parietal and postorbital ornamentation and the highly fused nature of the cranial elements suggest that this specimen is from a large adult sized animal that still retained some subadult features at the time of death (Sampson et al., 1997; Ryan et al., 2001). Significantly, the preserved nasal (Figs. 3, 4.1) is unfused. Large adult-sized, unfused nasals are also known from the Montanan bone bed (Fig. 5), suggesting that, atypically for other centrosaurines, the nasals of this taxon did not fuse and develop the characteristic adult morphology until the animal had obtained full adult size (Sampson et al., 1997; Ryan et al., 2001).

mfw irl deino could reasonably hunt alberta

[light osprey]

Average Deinonychus mobbing attempt

[sullen cairn]

man

[west coral]

Would this thing reasonably fit within rexes mouth?

[bright veldt]

A trex could unironically crunch it in one bite.

[bright veldt]

Let me see this thing's weight based on just shrinking down what GSP gave (cause nobody else has bothered cause it's just a skull)

about 450 kg, utahraptor is bigger than this thing

[sullen cairn]

i got 360kg with the sty gdi lmao

[bright veldt]

potato poetatto at that point, mf tiny

[ripe kraken]

Y

[sullen cairn]

320kg with nova's dibble

this is great

[bright veldt]

Hang on what that reference. I've seen a few styrac gdis but not dibble.

[sullen cairn]

idk if there was a gdi or not but i'm assuming the weight is from somewhere

[bright veldt]

Oh beautiful

[sullen cairn]

oh stego
should be good then

[bright veldt]

So yeah...300 kg.

[sullen cairn]

hmph
wasn't expecting to make albert 10x smaller today

[bright veldt]

It is easily one of the smallest ceratopsids period. Like there's others that're in the same ballpark (ex: avaceratops) but DAMN.

[west coral]

all in a days work

[sullen cairn]

and to think i started the day like this

man

[light osprey]

Arrhinoceratops when mcraensis pulled up to the function

[stiff osprey]

nature is... pettable?

I would recommed using the scalebar from the paper over that photo with a guy in its general area if you haven't already

[sullen cairn]

that's what i did
the two scalebar images fit together real nice which is a bonus

[stiff osprey]

nice

[light osprey]

Maybe Random should make a skeletal to make it official

[stiff osprey]

you might be seeing an Albert from me soon

[elfin pulsar]

WHAT

[stiff osprey]

but not this Albert

[light osprey]

Albertonykus of course

[sullen cairn]

i implore you to do as much as you can to reduce the rattail and make it normal

[stiff osprey]

I will make it normal by reducing everything else

[sullen cairn]

worth it

[west coral]

albertavenator I beg

[sullen cairn]

frontal scaling 🎉

[light osprey]

Albertonectes

[stiff osprey]

there's as many alberts as fukuis now

[west coral]

More im pretty sure

[sullen cairn]

Fukuipteryx erasure

[west coral]

yes

in all honesty i forgot about him

So the score is tied 5-5

[steady rock]

das weighed 4 tons, correct?

[bright veldt]

For the largest individuals, probably

[woeful falcon]

is there a gimp app for morons video, because every time I use it, it feels about as user friendly as a cactus

[sullen cairn]

i find it amusing how i went from scaling albert as potentially bigger than das to less than 10% the size

[bright veldt]

square cube law

[west coral]

I want to know how you got it bigger than Dasp

[steady rock]

did Alberta get the Tatankaceratops treatment

[bright veldt]

The OG estimate by GSP is like 3.5 tons

[steady rock]

for alberta or dasp?

[bright veldt]

former

[light osprey]

Albertavenator of course is what he means

[steady rock]

we should stop naming dinosaurs after states and give them more creative names

[sullen cairn]

smolceratops

[steady rock]

Tatankaceratops

literally what is Tatankaceratops

[sullen cairn]

triceratops

[steady rock]

buts its tiny

[west coral]

tonkaceratops

[steady rock]

sinoceratops. . . .. 5 tons. . .. .

@sullen cairn why do you keep messing with ceratopsians sizes

[sullen cairn]

i may be stupid

[steady rock]

first you made sinoceratop 5 tons, and now alberta is 400 pounds?

[bright veldt]

Sinoceratops has been 5 tons for years

[sullen cairn]

technically the big sino is more like 6t if gat's skeletal is to be believed

[bright veldt]

I don't think I've seen that one lemme see

[steady rock]

how big is trike?

[bright veldt]

The only GDI of trike has it at 7 tons, but I really wouldn't be surprised if with the size variation they have that they got bigger.

[steady rock]

was it the big ceratopsians that were lone wolves or just triceratops?

[bright veldt]

Triceratops itself wasn't really a lone wolf either, at least probably not. Just not in the large herds that most ceratopsids probably lived in.

[light osprey]

It’s hard to make a concrete assessment of its sociality

[steady rock]

like, 2 - 5 instead of the thousands of others?

[bright veldt]

We assume this cause most ceratopsids probably relied on said herds to defend themselves. Triceratopsines (like triceratops) were likely more defensive, given the more practical horn shapes and significantly larger body sizes compared to their past contemporaries.

[steady rock]

oh yeah, didnt we find a skeletal with a trikes top part of its horn missing? or was that toro?

[sullen cairn]

unless you're coahuilaceratops
then you're vibin

[light osprey]

Eh, their size is in proportion to their predator, I feel like that’s not a considered factor in their behavioural condition

[steady rock]

oh, why?

[woeful falcon]

giant horns

[sullen cairn]

coahuilaceratops is normal boring ceratopsid size despite being closest to 3t sierraceratops and 5t bravoceratops

[steady rock]

oh

[bright veldt]

How you get those sizes? I'm currently looking for which ceratopsids are over the typical size lol.

[sullen cairn]

too many skeletals mushed together in one image

[bright veldt]

The only ones I've found outside of the 6 giants are penta and centro. I didn't get to sierra and bravo yet.

[steady rock]

what are the 6 giants? torosaurus, triceratops, eotriceratops, sinoceratop and titanoceratops?

[bright veldt]

• pachyrhino

[sullen cairn]

lemme check what I have

[steady rock]

is this a accurate torosaurus size?

[bright veldt]

lemme check

A bit too large

[woeful falcon]

well, which torosaurus is that

[bright veldt]

It would be very appreciated

[steady rock]

Torosaurus Latus

[light osprey]

Sierraceratops and Bravoceratops aren’t big?

[bright veldt]

More-so table was saying that the three are closely related, but coa is normal-sized while the other two are huge

[woeful falcon]

specimen I mean. Toro isn't only known from one

[steady rock]

can we compare who was more abundent in hell creek, torosaurus or triceratops?

[bright veldt]

I mean we can't say for certain but there's way more trike than toro about.

[stiff osprey]

Triceratops by far

[bright veldt]

Toro is known from maybe, like, a dozen specimens? Trike is in the hundreds.

[steady rock]

oh.

[light osprey]

The mysterious preservation biases

[woeful falcon]

at least 3

[steady rock]

i always thought torosaurus had like, alot of fossils

[sullen cairn]

these nerds all seem to be over 2t
although nedo is... nedo... and i am far less trusting of the medusaceratops skull size after what happened with albert

[bright veldt]

Even if taken at face-value medusa wouldn't be above average anyway

[stiff osprey]

There are a lot of "trike" fossils without a skull that might be Toro

But if by hell creek we mean the depositional environment, and not like, all of late cretaceous NA, then trike still wins by a landslide

[steady rock]

are torosaurus's and triceratops only different in the head?

[light osprey]

Torosaurus dominates somewhere in Laramidia maybe

[sullen cairn]

also i have no idea if liam's ojo skeletal is actually useable but whatever

[bright veldt]

That's ceratopsids in a nutshell

[steady rock]

oh.

[stiff osprey]

the vicious cycle

[steady rock]

so if you find a headless ceratopsian skeleton you jsut gotta take a guess?

[west coral]

What’s the fella after nedo?

[light osprey]

of course he made an Ojoceratops skeletal

[stiff osprey]

only ceratopsid skulls are studied because only the skulls differ. No differences found outside the skull because nobody studies the postcrania. Postcrania not being different leads to no studies. etc etc

[sullen cairn]

i think lakustai might be over 2t as well

[steady rock]

now, how many valid ceratopsids are there from hell creek? 3 or 4?

[light osprey]

Species?

[sullen cairn]

centrosaurus

[bright veldt]

One species of torosaurus and two species of triceratops

[steady rock]

so nedoceratops isnt valid?

[light osprey]

There’s one more species of Ceratopsian that is valid if you’re interested in broadening your range

[steady rock]

dont tell me, dont tell me

[bright veldt]

It's contested but there's nothing that suggests to me it isn't just an abnormal trike.

[steady rock]

leptoceratops?

[sullen cairn]

😠

[steady rock]

omg, do i win a prize?

[west coral]

I mean -> this way

[light osprey]

Erm no, cause I said so

[sullen cairn]

Ojo?

right is liam's ojo

also blub rest assured i am working on the avaceratops thing slowly but surely

[light osprey]

How old is the supposed T. albertensis

Is it a transitional fellow

[west coral]

Never knew he made one

[sullen cairn]

albertensis is scollard iirc

[light osprey]

So, contemporary (??)

[sullen cairn]

seems to be

[light osprey]

But it’s lower members are slightly older

It it’s even got defined members

[sullen cairn]

is trike absent from lower scollard

[light osprey]

Im not an expert im a generalist

[woeful falcon]

can you post the ojo

[sullen cairn]

this is from april i have no idea if it still holds up

[light osprey]

Squamosal looks funky

[woeful falcon]

well either way you can slap that on a trike body and call it a day after all post crania doesn't differ much and no one bothers to research their postcrania because it doesn't differ much

and also. ojo is just a head if that's all there is to it lol

[white matrix]

It’s useable yea

But there’s defo a reason I never actually posted it

[white matrix]

Skull to body is based on Eotrike for mine

Iain helped a little bit with it

Here is the skull by itself

I hate ceratopsids

[woeful falcon]

Dang it liam I was hoping that tag was about mor 692 but it was just you correcting me

Ojo more like uggo

[sullen cairn]

i'd have mor 692 done by now but i need to shove furato into neutral because i hate non-neutral ceratopsids

[sullen cairn]

have the skull in the meantime

[woeful falcon]

There she is

[woeful falcon]

Non-neutral anything 🤮

[sullen cairn]

real

[sullen cairn]

@woeful falcon

[bright veldt]

Every ceratopsid that isn't 5 meters and 2 tons or less (from what I can tell)

1. Triceratops (8m, 7 tons)+
2. Torosaurus (8m, 7 tons)
3. Titanoceratops (7m, 6.5 tons)
   4, 5, & 6. Bravoceratops, Eotriceratops & Sinoceratops (7m, 5 tons)
4. Pachyrhinosaurus (7m, 4.5 tons)
   8+9. Achelousaurus & Sierraceratops (6m, 3 tons)
   10+11. Centrosaurus & Pentaceratops (6m, 2.5 tons)

So only about 1/4 of ceratopsid species

[woeful falcon]

Thank

[sullen cairn]

@woeful falcon also these if you want em (i shrank it like 5cm)

and the neutral furato

[woeful falcon]

Sweet

[magic monolith]

anybody here to confirm that alberta got downsized?
im pretty sure this aint the alberta im thinking of

[sullen cairn]

yeah alb kinda shrunk

[bright veldt]

Alberto's past size was the result of outdated estimates and scaling errors

It really is this tiny.

[sullen cairn]

This whole thing is so absurd I don’t think my mind’s actually processed it yet

[storm heron]

I wonder if Medusaceratops size has changed or not.

[sullen cairn]

good news for alberta not being a midget, there is a lifeline in that it turns out the scale bar in the description skeletal is 20cm its just stated below another figure for whatever reason
the bad news is a) the tiny gat skull diagram w/ meter bar still exists and b) according to that scale bar, the royal tyrrel museum is home to 10ft+ people

and i doubt the thing in a museum is cast considering its in glass and all

[sullen cairn]

and even then lmao

[bright veldt]

So what is it? If it's double what was originally thought then the scalebar in GAT's does line up correctly.

[sullen cairn]

but then there's the tiny one which i'm also pretty sure is by gat

[sullen cairn]

and this has a 10cm scalebar for the same thing which is even more confusing

which means we have two gat skulls for the same thing and each one fits a different scalebar used for said skull

AHA

i can't believe the phillip j curie dinosaur museum would lie to me like that
and thank the heavens he has been embiggened once more

return to normalcy

now we can return to the originally scheduled program of das getting steamrolled by a 3250kg centrosaurine

let this be a lesson in ceratopsid dominance and that I will never trust whoever runs the pjc museum twitter again
great now somebody's gotta do damage control for this

[woeful falcon]

This among other incongruent scalings and measurements just goes to show how messy some of them are. Literally all over the place

[sullen cairn]

luckily we got the good ending here

with that i'm mind i think i'll make an oldman chart

[woeful falcon]

Ye it's GAT. Had to hound the internet to see if I could confirm this for myself, but with how some of the text is in Japanese I should have just accepted that it was GAT right away lol

[sullen cairn]

kinda digging oldman so far

[silver canopy]

Yaknow.. I Just Realized How Quite The Cambrian Probably Was....

Could Early Animals Like That Even Pick Up On Sound?

Could They Make Any?

[clever sable]

Yeah but uh that's like uh, super fragmentary so it's best to go with the small specimen because the big specimen is super fragmentary

[sullen cairn]

they're all the same specimen and the figured stuff is very inconsistent so i'd rather just use the fragments i can be confident in the size of

(i also like giant albert way more but that's not the point)

[bright veldt]

How you get that mass?

[outer tusk]

Yo is that Scanova the Carnotaurus from YouTube 😲

Best dromaeosaurids ( Adasaurus & Achillobator )

[sullen cairn]

scaled with sty gdi

[bright veldt]

Gotcha

[sullen cairn]

and i think i've put the final nail in tiny alberta's coffin
thanks scalebars

[bright veldt]

So, whoops

[sullen cairn]

be me
try and upsize taxon
almost downsize it by factor of ten

slight detour folks

[viscid surge]

Actual question guys, what do you think are the most interesting palaeontology quirks/recent discoveries etc?

[lapis lintel]

spinosaurus and dilophosaurus

spino's paddle/salamander tail discovery and dilo's crest and skull structure

[light osprey]

Me

[viscid surge]

Understandable

[lapis lintel]

dilo's skull and crest is a weird thing

[bright veldt]

That one Prognathodon with three other mosasaurs in its stomach was absolutely wild

One being it’s own kind and another being a brand new discovered species

[viscid surge]

Jesus Christ that is kinda wild

[lapis lintel]

crazy stuff, maybe he just wanted a snack

[quartz rose]

Honestly, this whole smallbert thing seems like a lesson in how much an unclear photo and wierd angle can mess with your perception of something's size.

[light osprey]

Narp it was measurement shenanigans

[woeful falcon]

Unclear photo didn't help certainly. But it did further prove a point that if you don't have a clear image of a thing at the right angle, perspective can mess with it big time and validate an incorrect scaling haha

[bright veldt]

I told y’all the image was sus

[tawdry lintel]

Hello friends, I discovered someone that haves a prehistoric crocodile teeth and I wanted to know if it's real and if it's possible to know what species is it ?

[sullen cairn]

it's amusing this whole thing could've been avoided if presumably some random intern running a museum's twitter didn't assume a scalebar was 10cm instead of 20cm two years ago

[tawdry lintel]

It says is from the Cretaceous period in the Sahara desert

[sullen cairn]

there's quite a few crocs from the cretaceous sahara so that unfortunately doesn't narrow it down much

[woeful falcon]

Table scale this

[tawdry lintel]

I think it could be a Machimosaurus maybe

[light osprey]

30 metre Theropod incoming

[tawdry lintel]

Sorry ?

[sullen cairn]

there's these scales that people use to measure table dimensions
blub wants one of those

[tawdry lintel]

Ohhh

It says is 32 mms and weighs 2'58 gms

[sullen cairn]

i'm not sure if its diagnostic of machimosaurus but it seems to lack the silly lines machimosaurus teeth have

[tawdry lintel]

This is super interesting, I ll try to find more info

[sullen cairn]

the worst part about ceratopsids is having to make all the gat skeletals tolerable to look at

[light osprey]

Troubling sacrum

[sullen cairn]

oldman herbis so far

[white matrix]

That woman has so many dino cards

dino cards? I dont get the reference

Dinosaur King

[wary heath]

What do you guys think are the most underrated/understudied extinct mammals?

[white matrix]

Personally I gotta say ground sloths, I think they're very unrepresented and really cool.

Maybe certain cervids as well.

[compact leaf]

I say gomphotheres

[white matrix]

based proboscideans

[wary heath]

I would say desmostylians because they are just so odd and we know very little about them.

[tough parcel]

Give the edited and scaled ceratopsians to me so I can smash them into a drawing format

[sullen cairn]

i have developed an extreme distrust of ceratopsid scalebars

[tough parcel]

It’d be funny tho

[sullen cairn]

smolbert will be missed (no he won't lmao) but now i'm wondering why there's multiple alberta figures with completely off scalebars floating around

also some guys

[tough parcel]

You should give me their names NOW ⚡

[sullen cairn]

wendi, random thing from foremost, c. belli, p. perotorum

[tough parcel]

Taking that Chasmo, been wanting to do one for a hot second, thanks bbg

[sullen cairn]

it's literally just gat's

[white matrix]

bbg?

[sullen cairn]

falcon is a mental case

[tough parcel]

Yea well, I didn’t feel like t-posing GAT skeletals, so thank you

[tough parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/ive-been-so-lonely-sad-alone-isolated-pikachu-gif-12870712

[sullen cairn]

bro thinks he's alectrosaurus

[cloud dagger]

Multituberculates, monotremes and metatherian relatives i think

[white matrix]

based choices

[light osprey]

Enantiornitheans and other latest Cretaceous Birds

[white matrix]

birds aren’t mammals

[sullen cairn]

Only in the abstract sense

[wary heath]

No

[chrome condor]

yeah this exists

[tender wraith]

my guy has one bone in his entire body

[sullen cairn]

Unfortunately

[light osprey]

Whoops I didn’t see the mammal part

But erm, research birds anyways

[white matrix]

would be interesting to hear you're thoughts on the actual question lol

[clever sable]

Yeah, just reptiles for now

[light osprey]

Probably Cretaceous metatherians and such

[white matrix]

I don't know why but I just hate metatherians, like I dislike marsupials in general, and I don't know why.

[stiff osprey]

Pantodonts are pretty underrated

So are Adalatherium and Vintana's family

[light osprey]

Gondwanatheria done dirty

[stiff osprey]

Thank you PP for featuring them in the best episode of season 2

[stiff osprey]

Average opinion of felids crossing over from North America during the GABI

[light osprey]

It was a really beautiful sequence as well, regardless of muh discussion on Gondwanatherian reproduction

[white matrix]

GABI?

[light osprey]

Great American Biotic Interchange

[white matrix]

This is funny because there is potential P. atrox material in SA (in Argentina I think)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1631068317301094#fig0025

[stiff osprey]

Oh yeah I remember that

[glad carbon]

wow

[sullen cairn]

and so it begins...

[tough parcel]

I wanna see how this goes

[west coral]

oh god

[gaunt raven]

Spino would beat tf outta rex (I love to start arguments 😈)

[short sigil]

It's not Giga or Carcharo so no where

[gaunt raven]

All of those are light work for a spino

[light osprey]

Sue gotta thick neck

[white matrix]

who gonna tell falcon they have sue listed as fmnh "fr" 2081 (lol)

[west coral]

there are quite a few fellas missing

[tough parcel]

Who is to say that's not intentional

[white matrix]

that was an attempt to make it funny guess i failed

[sullen cairn]

I need to find a coronosaurus ref and be bothered to put a pachycephalosaur in neutral

[tough parcel]

It is ok, old friend. Subtlety is the key to comedy

[compact leaf]

@sullen cairn you don’t happen to have a stego and dacentrurus comparison do you? I remember one getting made in here but I can’t remember by who

[sullen cairn]

I don’t think I have personally but I can make one

With beag’s dacen?

[compact leaf]

yeah beags dace, if you’re making one anyway could I trouble you do throw randoms newest allo in there?

is there another dace out there? I can’t actually remember

[white matrix]

@west coral made it

[sullen cairn]

Stego doesn’t like something with it but idk what exactly

Should allo be dino or 680

[compact leaf]

I knew that but yeah I don’t know what exactly is wrong with it lol

680 I guess, doesn’t make much difference to me

I’d do this myself but I’m not home and you’re just better at it lol

[steady rock]

why is stego so big

[white matrix]

use reverse psychology whys dacen big

[steady rock]

can you compare it to diplo, allo and cerato?

[west coral]

with allo, man he is small

[gaunt raven]

And allo still hunted it 💪

[sullen cairn]

piss i'm late

[west coral]

sure

[steady rock]

did only stego have neck armor?

[tough parcel]

As far as known, yes

[west coral]

@steady rock

[steady rock]

bro why is stego so massive compared to diplo

[light osprey]

Something about that Dacentrurus

[white matrix]

say it

[light osprey]

Kinda ugly

[west coral]

random mongolian sauropod #23 (abdarainurus)

||see I don’t only make size charts||

[white matrix]

tbf I just want some cenozoic talk thats the only reason I reply to you

[woeful falcon]

Less than a day old account #5

[tribal sandal]

Reminder to please be polite and respectful towards other members, Attempts to stir conflict or start an argument will not be tolerated.
Please refer to our #rules and check the pins to see what's allowed in this channel

[manic aspen]

thank you lorikeet I was just asking for help.

[jagged trellis]

ima just be watching, so uhhh alb size is...wonky right, "tiny" and "normal" sizes are valid or just confused unga bunga

[woeful falcon]

Sure bud.

Do keep an eye on the channel, mod. Had a troll that likes to pretend to be dumb and then post some heinous video involving a blender

Who cares

[light osprey]

He back?

[tribal sandal]

Please drop the backwards and forwards argument ,
This channel is for paleo chat - read our #rules and please check the pins to see what can be discussed here lets get back on topic

[white matrix]

He posted the cat video again, so I got pissed mind the language

[jagged trellis]

fair, but what is the alb size stuff now seeing the rollercoaster it had for a second

[white matrix]

It’s still big thankfully, table did an oopsie

[jagged trellis]

ah ok just wanted to check if it was more than just a small group ordeal or actually widespread and consistent, thanks

[sullen cairn]

pretty much some alb figures and images have really really bad scalebars

[fossil ingot]

Biggest Stego is like 8 tons, bro was big

[steady rock]

it was?

[fossil ingot]

Almost 8 meters long and 8 tons
Biggest Allo atm is 2.7 tons

[west coral]

random sauropod, angolatitan

[fossil ingot]

Nice

[white matrix]

chat

[compact leaf]

angolatitan is cool but it suffers from basal titanosauriform syndrome

[steady rock]

and whats that?

[compact leaf]

so it’s a taxonomic headache by default

anything sitting more basal than euhelopidae is pretty messy at this point, even euhelopidae itself is pretty unfortunate

[steady rock]

whats the largest early jurassic sauropod?

[light osprey]

Wow it must be so stable and easy to place

[compact leaf]

enjoying sauropods is a life of suffering, but it’s the life I choose

[light osprey]

I only enjoy based Maastrichtian ones, minimal headaches 😎

[white matrix]

You enjoy the nearing end of any major geological era dont you silly?

humuhumunukunukuapua'a (is a fish name)

[fossil ingot]

Fenris and Leviathan Compared to Tarbosaurus
Fenris is the 11 meter 5 ton Sauro
Leviathan is the huge one

[woeful falcon]

It'll be 5 years minimum before I take this dinosaur seriously

[fossil ingot]

Why lol

[woeful falcon]

The very nature of it

[frosty anvil]

im ngl whenever someone mentions skorpiovenator i think of some concavenator or maip looking thing but nope its an abelisaurid

[tranquil quartz]

Spectrovenator the best venator fr tho

[scarlet moon]

Maybe an article how different prehistoric animals hunted you could use comparisons with modern animals

[nocturne gazelle]

You should be able to find plenty of articles based on dinosaur behaviors

You might not find an article that compiles a bunch of different behaviors, but you should be able to find articles that cover rex ambush hunting vs persuit predation vs scavenging for example.

Or Pteranodon skim feeding vs diving for fish. Look for articles that go in depth about a specific dinosaurs hunting technique to find enough information to form an article that allows you to showcase multiple dinosaurs hunting techniques.

And then do what kestrel said and draw your own comparisons with ecological niches of the modern animals we still have around.

Now I'm not educated much on paleontology, but that's what I would do if I were struggling to find articles.

And obviously don't plagarize.

[sullen cairn]

wendiceratops if it was based

[west coral]

maybe it is based, just incomplete

[white matrix]

That is one big cynodont.

[pearl briar]

largest egg stealer

[light osprey]

Something looks off there

[magic monolith]

only 2 tons?
last time i checked it was like 3.5 or sum
right?

[nocturne gazelle]

That length/height compared to weight tho.

[bright veldt]

It’s around 2.5 tons, so too light in the image yeah

[light osprey]

It looks a bit too tall

[magic monolith]

thats just how it was🤷‍♂️

[blissful marlin]

Can't wait for them to add the utah birds bigger then the tiny Raptors but they can still pounce and be much stronger

[white matrix]

Utah? you mean achillo? unless you mean PT Utah

Lagomeryx by ville sinkkonen

[reef niche]

I feel like the bars we had is inaccurate:[ We need this realistic bars imo

[magic monolith]

yup

[fallow stirrup]

Are bearded dragons related to marine reptiles like plosaur and mosasaur?

Better yet, what’s the largest prehistoric ancestor of them

[glad carbon]

How do they even sustain themselves on eggs at that size

[stiff osprey]

They're distant relatives of mosasaurs, but more closely related to chameleons and iguanas

[blissful marlin]

Pt utah

I heard they are adding ai Dino into the servers

[sullen cairn]

abelisauridae is once again ruined

[ancient crystal]

What makes you think they're sustaining themselves on eggs?

[glad carbon]

Well they said largest egg stealer. Gotta be some reason they got that size, especially considering most egg stealers in this day and age are kinda scrappy. I’m just thinking in ratios. If an egg stealer is that size how damn big were the eggs? What’s the point of getting that big?

Unless they just steal eggs on the side

[woeful falcon]

They called it an egg stealer bc its an oviraptorosaur, oviraptor's name meaning egg thief. But it wasn't an egg thief, it was a parent

[tranquil quartz]

A pretty good parent as well

[stiff osprey]

be late cretaceous theropod
have eggs
protect your eggs so fiercely that you literally die for them
70 million years later
''this thing is on top of a nest... must've been a cruel egg stealer''

[honest wave]

Others have said this but the idea that oviraptorosaurs stole eggs as their main source of food has been disproven. That’s not to say that none of them ever consumed eggs, since many birds do it on occasion as a dietary supplement, but oviraptorosaurs were a majority herbivorous and lightly omnivorous group.

When the first oviraptor fossils were found, they were frequently found on top of eggs. In one of the most galaxy-brained moments in all palaeontology, people decided “surely these were dumb primitive animals so driven by food that they killed themselves en masse, even though animals don’t do that,” instead of making the conclusion that they were hyperprotective of their own young to the point of fully disregarding their self-preservation instincts, which is a thing many animals do.

[bright veldt]

Oviraptorosaurs being egg-eaters at this point is a myth.

It’s thought that they had a generalistic diet that was primarily herbivorous. Kind of like Ornithomimids. The meat they ate was probably just whatever they could scrap and swallow.

[honest wave]

Yeah, they probably had a diet similar to pheasants and such. Very generalistic but mostly herbivorous

[pearl sinew]

hello

while we are on the discussion of fossils have you guys heard that scientists think they can actually bring back dinosaurs from their fossils/dna at least the ones that have dna present

[bright veldt]

DNA doesn’t survive past a few thousand years so it’s not happening.

[spark needle]

how big is Leedsichthys?

[light osprey]

Mmm Polytomys

[bright veldt]

12 meters, 17 tons

[light oxide]

AKA, Facultative Herbivores, more closely to True Herbivores than to Omnivores.

[bitter oasis]

@light oxide hello! i understand how the conversation got to this point but as per server rules i will have to remove the video as we don't allow posting any kind of gore or dead animals, which the video seems to contain.

[light oxide]

Oh, okay -- my apologies.

[bitter oasis]

No worries!

[woeful falcon]

No genuine scientist believes that

[pearl sinew]

have you researched that

[white matrix]

Dr. Doofenshmirtz

[woeful falcon]

some dinosaurs did survive extinction

they're birds

[viscid surge]

I have no idea where this goes, never seen the argument before at all

is this serious

[white matrix]

same

[viscid surge]

I am not an expert or anything bro but-

[elfin pulsar]

Ah yes ocean dinosaurs

[viscid surge]

The underground society of ocean dinosaurs in the centre of the earth!

[elfin pulsar]

Mosasaurus is the ultimate ocean dinosaur

[woeful falcon]

Actually, on the topic are there any other lineages of dinosaur that occupied the water besides spinosaurs, birds, and I suppose halzkaraptor (however you spell it)

[light osprey]

😱

Some Unenlagiinae probably ate fish

[elfin pulsar]

Same type of "scientists" on wikihow

[woeful falcon]

entertaining the notion that there are proper scientists that believe in young earth, I really wonder what valid reasoning they could possibly give for how all of the life that to ever have existed could coexist in any ecologically sound manner

[elfin pulsar]

On the most basic level there are HUMAN artifacts dated far beyond 4000 years old lmaooo

[woeful falcon]

that's something I've always wondered. I always see people harp on the "oh so humans lived with dinosaurs? how did everything die" when the real question is how could everything have possibly lived together like that

[elfin pulsar]

Its so funny too especially since, again, people are older than that date.

[light osprey]

exfoliate nice one autocorrect

[woeful falcon]

there isn't a dimension where mammoths and tyrannosaurs are coexisting well. and allosaurus and acrocanthosaurus and stegosaurus because this means all dinosaurs would have lived at the same time as well

oh and plesiosaurs aren't dinosaurs

[viscid surge]

We really got someone tryna argue the existence of the Loch Ness monster huh

[light osprey]

They’re old and have scales (but not really) wdym

[pearl sinew]

nah thats sill its a plesiosaur but people call it the loch ness monster or "nessie" because of the legend

[elfin pulsar]

That belief doesn't have to coincide in not understanding basic science + that information is wrong (it doesnt say that), but also any religion talk isnt allowed

[viscid surge]

Why would there be a plesiosaur in Loch Ness why would it die out if it only lived there a few thousand years ago

[pearl sinew]

oh srry i forgot

[pearl sinew]

what if it didn't

[viscid surge]

What are you implying

[pearl sinew]

what if it didn't die out in the loch but one still somehow lives there as there are lots of caves and such and the loch is pretty deep so who knows.

[elfin pulsar]

Nessie is obviously real despite being extremely common knowledge that the loch ness monster was confirmed to just be a media troll

When I say common knowledge I mean REALLY common

[woeful falcon]

bible doesn't matter here. think about it logistically, something like an invasive species like a rabbit or a fish can drastically affect an ecosystem. and those, in our minds, are quite small.

now, take a woolly mammoth and a Tyrannosaurus and an Albertosaurus and a Daspletosaurus and a mountain lion and a grizzly bear, do you think those are doing well together?

[pearl sinew]

anyways im done on this subject

[elfin pulsar]

Please, it's so incorrect it's painful

[viscid surge]

You seriously considering the existence a giant water monster in a lake which has been closely monitored for years just in case there might be a giant water monster, yet no evidence has ever been found I see

[elfin pulsar]

Obviously the loch ness monster adapted to be immune to all shapes and forms of human detection (within 4000 years)

The amount of niche overlap if all these animals existed together would be CRAZY

[lavish frigate]

Ah talking about implausible cryptids I see

[viscid surge]

Aye aye

[lavish frigate]

Now. I could bring up a very plausible Cryptid that I talk about quite a bit…. But I only do that on Arazoa

And also falcon might bring up Sasquatch feet pics again and I don’t wanna jinx it

[viscid surge]

Hmm

[bright veldt]

Most lake monsters are misidentified known animals or just hoaxes

The Loch has been studied extensively with sonar and EDNA, and the most interesting thing that’s been found in those is the presence of large European eels

[ancient crystal]

Why do I always miss the good stuff?

[scenic flame]

Silly dummy, we all know a single individual plesiosaur survived isolated in that lake for 66+ million years, it just uh, like slowed it metabolism, and other science stuff to make my belief based argument more realistic

[light oxide]

In my opinion, at the beginning, the Loch Ness Monster was probably just either a whale or a Greenland shark that went into the lake, caused some peeps to freak out, and then, after some years, died to old age or some other cause.

However, due to its impact on the peeps who saw it, they started to make the monster a legend.

And this brings us to present day.

[sudden wind]

https://tenor.com/view/antman-what-the-hell-happened-here-avengers-gif-18240147

[sullen cairn]

how wacky and uncharacteristic of paleo chat

[white matrix]

You could say a little Tom foolery

[brisk acorn]

Great scott, this is paleo chat not... whatever this was...

[west coral]

To be honest, it was probably a whale ||freeing its willy||

[sullen cairn]

i should shrink something for a day again

[white matrix]

Megalania

[glad carbon]

Ahhh

[white matrix]

Megalania would be funny

[west coral]

Shrink a sauropod or hadrosaur

[white matrix]

#shrink megalania

[sullen cairn]

we already shrunk angulo by 50%

[west coral]

Oh yeah I forgot about that

[light oxide]

Probably, in all honesty -- has happened before.

ANYWAYS . . .

I got a question for you all--

How do you think ceratopsians may have responded to predation threats? A fully defensive measure, or maybe flight first and then defense?

[clever sable]

Shrink torvosaurus

[west coral]

We had to give the aguja nanotyrannus a chance, otherwise angulo would have been too powerful

[sullen cairn]

depends on the species but most prolly would've tried running if they could

[sullen cairn]

now its only 7x smaller instead of 15x smaller

[west coral]

We were cooking that night

[light oxide]

Hmm . . . See if there are any ceratopsians that need a size update?

We already did Albertaceratops (which almost ended in disaster ). Are there any more that could use some?

[jagged trellis]

i mean for a majority id say a middle ground, sometimes on retreat, sometimes on fending off, the ones with more formed weapons 100% would've been more about fight over flight if push came to shove overall( save for not exactly favorable cases)

[sullen cairn]

if i could find actual refs for them sure

[light oxide]

[west coral]

what fellas are you gonna shrink?

[sullen cairn]

gsp's achelousaurus is pretty big

[bright veldt]

It’s considered likely that most ceratopsids relied on numbers and evading to protect themselves, given they were usually significantly smaller than their predators and had horns kinda impractical for combat with no real trends in shape. Triceratopsines like triceratops seem to be an exception to this, seeing as they are significantly larger than most ceratopsid species, and there was a similar horn-plan across the group, which implies a more practical function than just display.

[light osprey]

This seems fine enough

Shuffle away, maybe huddle together

or avoid your predators in the first place

[sullen cairn]

especially when nanuq would be bigger than pachyrhino irl

[light osprey]

Retconned sub adult or something

[woeful falcon]

Assuming that there were larger P. perotorum out there, but I don't doubt a Nanuq would stand taller/appear larger than them em account that tyrannosaurs are leggy dudes, tyrannosaurines included

Table what was the length of the nanuq you did earlier

[sullen cairn]

8.4m iirc?

i think that was the highest i got though i talked about it on another server

7.9-8.3m scaling with torosus

[clever sable]

You should totally attempt to shrink pachyrhino fr fr

[sullen cairn]

well my attempt at a perotorum edit ended up the exact same length as gsp's lmao

[clever sable]

😔

[sullen cairn]

comp again

[clever sable]

And that is the largest pachyrhino?

[sullen cairn]

drumheller and lakustai are bigger

[clever sable]

You should totally shrink suchomimus fr fr

[sullen cairn]

shrinkage only really happens with things that don't have extensive skeletals

[clever sable]

What's one thing you think you could possibly shrink

[sullen cairn]

like i said gsp has a 6m achelousaurus but it sounds like a headache to dig for refs

and i am not very trusting of scalebars after the albert incident

[clever sable]

I'm so sad it un shrunk

[sullen cairn]

i mean technically those images with the tiny scalebars are still there (and posted by a museum because lmao) but the image with an actual physical scalebar makes it big again

for some reason people think tiny albert was scaled with the grainy picture that doesn't even have a good scale ref and not the actual images with scalebars which is funny though

imo the fact there's images with scalebars that screwed up is even more stupid
which makes it funnier too

[little mauve]

Predator detection and avoidance is a question mark for me with derived ceratopsids. The endocasts of Anchiceratops, P. lakustai and Triceratops show remarkably little sensory specialization with reduced olfactory, auditory, optic lobes, and cerebrum. We know they herded, individually they may have been sitting ducks

[stiff osprey]

cringe fail animal

[sullen cairn]

ANCHICERATOPS!! THE ALBERTOSAUR IS RIGHT BEHIND YOU!!!! ANCHICERATOPS LOOK OUT!!

[sullen cairn]

why does it look bipedal

[compact leaf]

I don’t like that

[white matrix]

Why is its neck so skinny

[sullen cairn]

because nmc 8547 has a stupid neck

[west coral]

First miragaia, now anchi

What is with ornithischians wanting to be sauropods?

[woeful falcon]

Dan's skelly is of drumheller ye? I assume it was bc of what it says on its site and how it looks but it doesn't explicitely say "this is the drumheller specimen dawg"

[little mauve]

Walter = sympatric hadrosaurs

[light osprey]

Contextualises every PhP ceratopsian scene

They are all blissfully unaware of anything

[compact leaf]

I’m still disappointed we haven’t gotten to see an herbivore properly deck a carnivore in a recent paleo doc

[woeful falcon]

Aight gucci

[compact leaf]

we need to show the people that sauropods can in fact defend themselves, I don’t know why that one in particular is so hard to grasp for people

[light osprey]

We got Brontosmash instead, I like the trade off

[compact leaf]

it was nice to get the brontosmash

[light osprey]

Maybe next year

[tidal raven]

I'd pay money to have a hadrosaur fend off a predator. In every piece of paleo media ever they are always defenseless fodder. They were MASSIVE animals and were no pushovers. You don't need to have spikes and horns to be a threat

[tough parcel]

I'm here to tell you the average hadrosaur was not, in fact, massive compared to the contemporary apex predators

"X-rex" (which is often the most cited animal for this kind of thing) is a complete outlier and does not represent the average Edmontosaurus. The average Edmonto was as big, or even smaller, than the average rex

[west coral]

shant, no?

[tough parcel]

Shant is not the average hadrosaur

Once again, the outlier should not be used as the norm

[light osprey]

Sampling biases, so checkmate Rex fanboy (I can win any argument with this)

[tough parcel]

Trug...

[tidal raven]

I mean that's the case for all dinosaurs, but I meant the typical big hadros that people are familiar with just like any other "largest of their kind so they're the most known" species

[tough parcel]

I also meant the typical large hadrosaurs, as by my use of Edmontosaurus as an example

The only hadrosaur that consistently outsized its local predator is Shantungosaurus, which as I have said, is an outlier

[tidal raven]

Regardless, I doubt they just rolled over and died every time a therapod came a knocking

[sullen cairn]

I mean that might be kinda exaggeration

[tough parcel]

Sure, but they aren't the hardest animals to butcher

[light osprey]

Edmontonian moment

[tidal raven]

I mean look at deer. They look unassuming and non-threatening but they kill people way more regularly than one would think

[tough parcel]

Exaggeration in what way

[sullen cairn]

There’s more than just shangt (most of which have a sample of one but I do not care)

[tough parcel]

They kill people, but do they kill bears/wolves regularly?

People are easy to kill...not that I speak from experience

[sullen cairn]

Tbf bears and wolves do kill me regularly

[tough parcel]

Erm well actually, Shant is the only one I can remember, so all others are invalid

[light osprey]

True

[sullen cairn]

Touché

[tough parcel]

Are you a deer?

[sullen cairn]

I’m a man of few words

[light osprey]

I wonder how big Nanxiong’s Hadrosaur was

[sullen cairn]

Nanxiong megafauna when it inhales secondhand Deccan smoke

[tidal raven]

Point is, they were more than walking steaks for Rex to munch on, that's all I was trying to say

[light osprey]

What about Charonosaurus’s environment

[tough parcel]

Any animal is "more than a walking steak", but it also doesn't mean that hadrosaurs were steamrolling every tyrannosaur they came across

[light osprey]

How big is the guy

[tidal raven]

I think tenontosaurus has it the worst in terms of "just there to be eaten" though. I can't think of a single depiction of it where it isn't being dogpiled by raptors. Every. Single. Depiction.

[light osprey]

Nah that’s real, walking meals for Deinonychus

[tidal raven]

I meant it's never shown "as is." It's always shown just to be a template to show off raptors

[frosty anvil]

Ok everyone name all the fauna from early cretaceous utah and texas, particularly cedar mountain and that one other formation that i can neber remember the name of. Its for a project

[tough parcel]

Wikipedia is your friend

[light osprey]

Cedar Mountain, the very real formation

[frosty anvil]

Is it not considered one anymore?

[light osprey]

Just make sure to read which member they’re from

[frosty anvil]

Came across it while researching acrocanthosaurus

[frosty anvil]

Looking for things like acrocanthosaurus, deinonychus, tenontosaurus, sauroposeidon, that general ecosystem

[light osprey]

Ah much easier to find things

[tough parcel]

Tenonto gets mulched

[frosty anvil]

Ty

[light osprey]

Antlers Formation has Sauroposeidon

And probably Arundel has Acrocanthosaurus

[tough parcel]

Afaik it's not a probably anymore, @sullen cairn can destroy me or back me up, but iirc there was a juvenile Acrocanthosaurus specimen found in or around the area

[sullen cairn]

Correct

[tough parcel]

My mind wins again

[light osprey]

Cool and rad

[clever sable]

Could you possibly make a size comparison of acro and the sauropods it lived with or would that take a fee?

[storm heron]

https://peerj.com/articles/16236/#discussion

This is a very interesting phylogeny of Abelisauroidae.

[sullen cairn]

i enjoy that i pointed out i didn't like the skorp osteology's phylogeny and mere days later an objectively more cursed version is released

[storm heron]

Abelisaurus being sister Majungasaurinae, Arcovenator no longer being in Majungasaurinae but being sister to Brachyrostra,

Though I am not suprised to see that Furileusauria is just one big polytomy.

[sullen cairn]

the european furileusaurian ghost lineage predating rugops in question:

i suppose now that all hope is lost with abelisaurid clades being even remotely geographically segregated that bahariya thing being a brachyrostran wouldn't be too weird

i miss the days when dahalokely and rahiolisaurus still stuck in majungasaurinae and things actually made sense

[storm heron]

Speaking of Rahiolisaurus, wonder where it is now,

[sullen cairn]

seems to usually clade with dahalokely at the base of brachyrostra nowadays

or just unresolved at the base of abelisauridae

[storm heron]

Probably,

[sullen cairn]

tbh at least with that in mind arcovenator isn't that weird here

furileusaurian genusaurus on the other hand

[storm heron]

Yes, that is a curious occurrence. Genusaurus went from being basal Abelisaurid/Majungasaurine to being among the most derived of them. . . .

[sullen cairn]

genusaurus isn't even that incomplete or anything

[sullen cairn]

turns out his ass IS 6m

why does oldman need two 3t centrosaurines

[sullen cairn]

wait achelo's two medicine not oldman

it's nice each das formation has a complementary big centrosaurine then (dp is kinda cheating but whatever)

judith river is also kinda cheating too but at least they could get big in all of em

[storm heron]

Im sure the presence of large ceratopsins is balanced out by the pack hunting Tyrannosaurids.

[sullen cairn]

and it's not like das can't hunt a ceratopsid its size
especially when one of them doesn't even have horns

[storm heron]

Yea

[sullen cairn]

the guys in question (I am being an ass to medusaceratops scaling-wise)

[pearl briar]

how come i never see you draw a tenonto before
ur last tweet is like... 1 months ago (i'm always look up ur art in twitter/x)

[white matrix]

Man Trike was a lot different than I thought/j

[pearl briar]

get that ai art 💩 away from me

[white matrix]

I'd also like to draw your attention to the title

Ah yes, everyone knows Triceratops for... Shuffles paper Its strong bite force

[sullen cairn]

tf is wikipedia yabbering about

[woeful falcon]

I imagine that 22 probably elaborates further

[magic monolith]

thats achelusaurus right?
the bigger one

[sullen cairn]

yup

[magic monolith]

alr

[woeful falcon]

Aight ya it seems to stem from this

[sullen cairn]

so similar in size the basal skull is 30% larger

[chilly knot]

Who's the second tyrant

[sullen cairn]

second up or down

[chilly knot]

up

[sullen cairn]

wilsoni (rip bozo)

[chilly knot]

Wqit

Down I meant then

[white matrix]

Isn’t that dans daspletosaurus

[sullen cairn]

you had literally one job

[chilly knot]

2h of sleep caught up to me

[sullen cairn]

its just torosus skullswaped with mortimer's fmnh pr308 skull for dinosaur park das

[white matrix]

Also read that wrong

[sullen cairn]

why are we stupid
are we stupid?