paleontology

[hoary jay]

Why he look like that?

[copper flame]

idk

[hoary jay]

Looks like a kid drew him

[copper flame]

thats prehistoric wildlife for ya

kaiju aah sized sauropod

[hoary jay]

Yes, that is boi

[crude latch]

Eh so Is it true we’ve found remains of Parasaurs in Deinosuchus jaws, someone told me this and is saying they could grab full grown paras. This true?

Pugs was waiting 💀

[hoary jay]

Pugs like “ITS MY TIEM, FIANLY”

[west coral]

out of boredom I decided to scale breviparopus based on larramendis wild guess of it being a colossal rebbachisaur

[crude latch]

Ah ok nvm 💀

[clever sable]

Noooooooooooo

I advise against using prehistoric wildlife whenever possible, the only time I use it is when I literally cannot find anything else when it comes to size comparisons, it is very much a last resort

[clever sable]

Maraapunisaurus 2.0 ??!!??!

[sullen cairn]

i advise using prehistoric wildlife because its funny

[copper flame]

yeah

[west coral]

hold on, waiting for what?

[copper flame]

this still makes me cringe

[crude latch]

As soon as I posted u started typing so I thought

Also who tf is behind Prehistoric Wildlife, David Peters 💀

[light osprey]

It’s me

[crude latch]

: O

[west coral]

I’m going to become a supervillain and scale rebbachisaur brevi with PW length

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/look-smile-smirk-breezy-moves-ornery-gif-3520545

[crude latch]

Canceled

[compact leaf]

stop it you’re going to give larramendi ideas

[west coral]

See kids, now this eldritch horror is why you don’t over scale things ||specifically rebbachisaurs and turiasaurs||

At least I’ve learnt that the length of the chart is around 50m

[copper flame]

you turned breviparopus into a rebbachisaur

[west coral]

I’m using larramendis guess that it’s a rebbachisaur

[copper flame]

whats the most armored sauropod?

[crude latch]

Anyone got an answer?

[tough parcel]

Ask them to provide a source themselves

[crude latch]

I did

They refused

[tough parcel]

If they didn’t, then they’re lying

If they actually had a valid argument, they’d be more than willing to provide a source

[crude latch]

Oh quick question, Didn’t Trex also become Largest Land Carni again?

[light osprey]

Man, Ibero-Armorica is pretty neat

[light osprey]

Even the non-archosaurs ❤️

[west coral]

I’m pretty sure it’s still flip-flopping between the dentary giga and rex

[iron halo]

Isn’t brevi a footprint taxon or something

[light osprey]

Isometric scaling 🤢, just give it to Tyrannosaurus already

[crude latch]

Interesting

[west coral]

The debate is leaning towards rex though

[compact leaf]

yep sure is

[west coral]

woohoo yay ichnotaxa

[light osprey]

Must be real

[west coral]

must be the largest taxa known to man (it was too large to fossilize or something)

[light osprey]

Truly

[ruby patio]

If dinosaurs were so big, why didnt they just kick the asteroid off the planet before it hit?!??!??1?!??!?!??!?!?1/?!

(for legal purposes that is a joke)

[white matrix]

ngl I dont get it

now i get it

[ruby patio]

Yeah I had a stroke reading my own message mb

[white matrix]

np

does anyone know where "megaraptorans we're probably kicking/wrestling their prey on the floor" thing comes from

[light osprey]

Cause its cool 😎

https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ar.25128

[west coral]

more strangely giant ichnotaxa woohoo

[stiff osprey]

is that Sarmientosaurus

[light osprey]

You’re addicted to scale charts

[west coral]

left to right is malakhelisaurus, rotundichnus, ultrasauripus, and sauropodichnus which yes random, I used sarmiento as a placeholder

[west coral]

isn’t that obvious?

as i said before, too much time and too little else to do

[stiff osprey]

these are the wackiest animals to scale ichnotaxa off

[west coral]

it’s a little hard to tell off of a foot

[compact leaf]

yeah ichnotaxa are challenging

[stiff osprey]

like sarmiento, who doesn't have a foot

[compact leaf]

it is fun to scale footprints and get abominations against nature though

[stiff osprey]

malakheli I get because Larramendi did speculate it came from an Atlasaurus like animal

[light osprey]

We only like Ichnotaxa when they are just within the range of reasonability

[compact leaf]

what's going on with atlasaurus right now, last I heard it got thrown from turiasauria back into basal brachiosauridae

[stiff osprey]

looks pretty brachiosaurid to me but that could easily be convergence

[compact leaf]

fair enough, it's weird enough to have come from a few places

[light osprey]

Doesn’t Udurchukan have a few more Titanosaurs? Anyone know how those scale?

[white matrix]

Regarding this, its essentially just inference that cave lions we're social based on lions but I think that maybe a stretch?

iirc afaik solitary is probably the lead theory?

[stiff osprey]

The wiki page for Udurchukan does not cite any sources for the titanosaurs

[light osprey]

Erm
Isn’t that lovely

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1134/S1028334X22601547

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-reality-reality-can-be-whatever-i-want-infinity-gantlet-avengers-end-game-gif-13852128

Teeth, gotta love em

[west coral]

Hey random, i never knew you had a carcharodonto

[tough parcel]

(They don’t)

[west coral]

lies

[white matrix]

falcon caught in 4k

[tough parcel]

Show me where the Carcharodontosaurus skeletal is then

[stiff osprey]

[white matrix]

backrooms

[tough parcel]

True…

[compact leaf]

random got too close to the real thing and big paleo hid it from us

[light osprey]

Would one say that this is real and true?

[white matrix]

real and true

[west coral]

true and real even

[tough parcel]

I know the lore behind Random’s Carcharodontosaurus skeletal, it’s actually really funny because it didn’t happen to me

[light osprey]

Correct and existent possibly?

[stiff osprey]

It was funny when I had to keep starting it over

Now it's just depressing

[tough parcel]

It’s like Beagliam, but with-

He does Carchar too, so it’s just “like Beagliam”

[stiff osprey]

Like Beagliam, but instead of 2 days it takes me 2 months

[storm heron]

Im assuming we do not know whether Arcovenator was present in this formation?

[white matrix]

I should commission random for another mammal skeletal

[clever sable]

What's the longest it's ever taken to make a skeletal

[tough parcel]

Do a tooth taxon with no good relatives to base it off of, it’d be so funny

[stiff osprey]

Unclear due to not being posted yet

[white matrix]

drueeeeeeeee

[clever sable]

Is it the carch skeletal..........

Or the sarco skeletal you are totally 100% doing fr fr definitely 100% true and real

[white matrix]

doesnt random already have a sarco skeletal

[west coral]

do something that has relatively good material but has no actual references besides an old mount

[light osprey]

Speaking of teeth, Udurchukan Titanosaur teeth hence forth they shall be scaled as a 25 metre sauropod.

[clever sable]

No, this is the closest thing to a full body sarco skeletal that's currently out there

[tough parcel]

I can’t say the longest skeletal, but I can say he did Perucetus in like 4 hours

[white matrix]

common sarco L

[clever sable]

Why did they give it a weird lizard tail

[west coral]

cough cough rhinotitan cough cough embolotherium

[white matrix]

true this is going to be fun

[stiff osprey]

To be fair, that was like 8 bones and I had a stupid estimate to kill

[light osprey]

Doing the lord’s work

[compact leaf]

downsizing things with extreme prejudice is always fun

[clever sable]

My personal favorite skeletal random has made was his purussaurus skeptical, I absolutely adore how it's a dorsal

[white matrix]

downsizers when they meet upsizers:

[compact leaf]

larramendis 2020 titanosaur downsizing bender will never not be funny to me

[white matrix]

https://tenor.com/view/goku-prowler-spiderverse-dragon-ball-gif-16710249899645766833

[light osprey]

Omg the largest animal to ever exist has been found 😱

Downsizers

[clever sable]

Random when he meets fadeno:

I just know fadeno tends to get very high estimates for things

[tough parcel]

Murder as a motivation is so good

[light osprey]

He’s gonna end up as a Netflix documentary

[white matrix]

randomdinos: the skeletal torture

releasing november 15th

[stiff osprey]

I'm gonna be adapted poorly and canceled after two seasons?

[clever sable]

Yes

[white matrix]

hot take: crocs are mid

[clever sable]

Crocs are my lifeblood, I make my living by spreading crackpot crocodile theories online

[tough parcel]

<@&538079608914968587> So we got a gore video

[meager sedge]

Thankyou for the ping.

Please avoid this topic, thankyou. We are handling it!

[tough parcel]

Good thing they spoilered it so I could see the caption before I watched it

But anyways, dinosaurs!

[white matrix]

allosaurus

[frozen basin]

I agree! (Is that “average” Allo for size comparison?)

[light osprey]

What’s up with the femur

[tough parcel]

Scientific advancements improve the bodily form

(It’s a silly silly based on my stupidity)

[light osprey]

Theropod leg reduction coming in 💯

[steady rock]

how large is dryptosaurus?

[stark pasture]

20-27 ft long iirc

[steady rock]

i meant in weight

[stark pasture]

1.5 tons

[steady rock]

any 2 ton abelisaurids?

[pearl briar]

did she just... pronate her arms???

[pearl briar]

you got carno at 2.1 tons iirc

[steady rock]

interesting

[stark pasture]

Gorgosaurus

[steady rock]

thats a tyrannosaurid

anyother abelisaurids besides carno?

[sullen cairn]

Bruhath

[steady rock]

whats that

[sullen cairn]

Bruhathkayosaurus

[stark pasture]

thats a sauropod

[sullen cairn]

Ilium isn’t

[light osprey]

Cheeky lil fella

[white matrix]

Funky lil fella

[light osprey]

I wonder, since the European Abelisaurs are somewhat diminutive, is it reasonable to speculate they may have been gregarious hunters?

[sullen cairn]

there's evidence of gregariousness in some moderately sized candaleros abelisaurs so it's not impossible

[light osprey]

Well, that’s pretty lovely

[bright veldt]

The more I learn about ichthyosaurs the more eldritch they become

First they don't have scales, now I learn they were completely deaf

[lavish frigate]

I….wait what?!? How….and why….

[bright veldt]

I mean I guess hearing wasn't that useful to them (which means the mesozoic seas were probably quiet tbh, so no suprise singing plesiosaurs)

[lavish frigate]

So would that infer they didn’t vocalize?

[bright veldt]

Yeah they most likely didn't either

[frozen basin]

Wait what???

[bright veldt]

Yeah ichthyosaurs are whack

[frozen basin]

Eldritch beings ISTG

[light osprey]

Plesiosaurs had something much cooler than hearing

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/03115518.2013.736788

[lavish frigate]

Also (Ashe casually scaling large ichthyosaur remains to 500+ tons)

[sullen cairn]

be based and shove your ear bones into your skull and fuse em all so they're effectively useless

[lavish frigate]

But then I can’t listen to David peters hit YT channel where he calls pterosaurs lepidosaurs 😔

[half hinge]

[rose gate]

That first one Malakhelisaurus has the crazy long limbs to compensate the short neck. Crazy long throt walk

[storm heron]

Majungallosaurus.

[storm heron]

If they didn't have scales, they had skin then?

[bright veldt]

Bare skin like dolphins yeah

[storm heron]

Ah, interesting. I wonder what caused them to loose scales unless their ancestors didn't have scales to begin with. But then again I am not very knowledgable regarding Ichthyosaur evolution.

[pearl briar]

what differenate hadrosaurs like para and such with something i don't know the name like iggy and campto?

[magic monolith]

Para is a hadrosaur
Iggy is an iguanodontid,not a hadrosaur
2 difrent things

[silver canopy]

It's Still Possible Tho, I Belive Snakes Are Deaf And Alot Of Them Make Noise

Then Again Ichtyosaurs Are Alot Stranger Then Snakes

[light osprey]

Snakes aren’t deaf per say

[silver canopy]

I Know Snakes Still Pick Up On Vibrations Because They Can Feel It

But From What I've Been Told They Are Functionally Deaf

Then Again This Could Be A Ton Of Lies I've Been Told About Snakes

[frozen basin]

There was a study from a while back showing they can hear iirc

[tiny holly]

They absolutely can hear and do react to sound. Sound is vibrations anyway. While they lack external ears they still have an internal ear structure, and that's the part that actually allows us to pick up sound. It probably wouldn't be as clear as it is for other animals due to the lack of an external opening, but that doesn't mean they can't hear.

iirc it depends on the species, but they tend to be better at hearing lower frequencies rather than higher ones, which isnt surprising. Higher frequencies would have a harder time reaching and triggering the inner ear with all that scale and skin in the way

[fossil ingot]

Prob

[frail robin]

He-... he has a YT channel...?

[lavish frigate]

Yes it’s so weird.

[frail robin]

This is truly the end of days. Our only hope is our sweet lord and savior Mark P. Witton

[lavish frigate]

David peters is truly the anti-Mark

[frail robin]

David Peters is the devil and Mark Witton is Jesus Christ

[lavish frigate]

Ngl as a person who knows a lot about that sort of thing the narrative similarities are striking

[frail robin]

I mean... you can't really hear underwater, now can you?

[lavish frigate]

I think you just disproved cetacean echolocation….

[wind prairie]

huh

[wind prairie]

wait, so that means the tuarangisaurus singing in Preplanet 2 is inaccurate

[jagged trellis]

i mean no not really, atleast for that reason, still had excellent eyesight and other means of existing, moreso just there wasn't enough of it around to warrant it, not outright not there ever

[wind prairie]

https://youtu.be/ObLS2_sYEoE?t=39

that noise... is coming from them, right??

[jagged trellis]

p sure thats just music being more....noise like vs it being from the tuars outright, then again can't really know unless it comes from the horses mouth

[wind prairie]

no like that high pitched wailing definitely isn't the music

[jagged trellis]

its being timed with the music and is abit off so it very well could be, isn't the first time animal docs do that, but again only way to truly confirm is from someone who did a thing on it

[light osprey]

Listen to track, you might be surprised

[wind prairie]

I do not think that's the music but I'll check

alright found the music that plays during that scene, that wailing is not part of the song

[frail robin]

Huh? Where? It's not in the OST playlist on YT

[light osprey]

Is it not in the Globidens & Mosasaurus track

[wind prairie]

it's in globidens and mosasaurus

[light osprey]

Although, regarding Elasmosaurs, it’s possible they may have just used bone conduction as I think the inner ear canal is still developed

Oh wait, the stapes is present in Tuarangisaurus lol

[frail robin]

I played them side by side and it's not. Globidens & Mosasaurus is just the music for the Ammonite and Globidens segment

[wind prairie]

the latter half of it is the mosasaurus vs tuarangisaurus scene right

[frail robin]

https://youtu.be/XKHvdfKqvDo
Nope

The part with the trumpets and loud music is when Globidens attacks the ammonites. The first part is the ammonites arising from the depths of the ocean

[light osprey]

It doesn’t matter anymore cause the Elasmosaur in question definitely has a stapes

[frail swift]

Can anyone tell me why people think Kais design is awful? People cite the lack of exposed teeth but from what I’ve read Plesiosaurs didn’t conclusively have exposed teeth. The skull seems a bit off too but I dont think its outside the realm of possibility if we assume the bump on the forehead is not bone

[wind prairie]

it's also the fact that it doesn't filter feed

head melons also are usually a cetacean thing... not a plesiosaur thing lol

[white matrix]

@sudden wind aquatic wisdom

[frail swift]

The original paper describing Kai has the author stating they think it would have been a piscivore

People always say its a filter feeder but I have no idea where that is coming from if someone can cite me a source?

[elfin pulsar]

Yeah

[wind prairie]

that's just what aristonectines were known to do

[frail swift]

Also I mean the design more so, most PoT animals don’t fulfill their accurate dietary niche

I do t think the rounded head is enough to call it a melon either

[wind prairie]

aight, I guess thalassodromeus is worse in that regard

[wind prairie]

that literally is the technical term for it. The bulge on a beluga's head (plus other cetaceans) regardless if it's as extreme as a beluga's, you get the idea

bro I cannot speak today

[elfin pulsar]

That’s the term tho?

[frail swift]

Thats its head it does not appear melon like to me?

[wind prairie]

not a literal melon

there's still a bulge there, the term "melon" (a beluga's head) still applies

[frail swift]

So the head just has to be more pointed?

[wind prairie]

flatter

and of course no lips

[elfin pulsar]

Aren’t the fins also way too short

[frail swift]

Erm I dont think its conclusive anywhere that plesiosaurs had to have no lips

[wind prairie]

💀

I don't even know HOW some of them could have lips

[frail swift]

Kaiwhekea has tiny teeth

[woeful falcon]

Kai

[wind prairie]

not my point, but that's more like it ^

the consensus right now is that they ate dirt and partially closed their mouths to keep the food in and get the mud out

[elfin pulsar]

I like how he’s ignoring how that earlier image would have lips

[frail swift]

If river dolphins can have exposed teeth but bottle nosed dolphins dont why cant the same be true for plesiosaurs?

[wind prairie]

that is a very reaching example

[frail swift]

How

[lavish frigate]

Your all wrong. Kai should look like this

[elfin pulsar]

Obviously they all swim so they’re similar examples!

[woeful falcon]

Different ecological niches would be my first thought

[elfin pulsar]

Not to mention the extent to the difference

[frail swift]

They both eat fish

[elfin pulsar]

Referring to the teeth

[wind prairie]

you talking about indus river dolphins and ocean dolphins or kaiwhekea and other plesiosaurs??

[woeful falcon]

Wiccan with all due respect, you're the one that came with the questions and now you want to contend with the responses

[elfin pulsar]

Idk what he wants

[wind prairie]

plesiosaurs could've only benefited from not having lips, most of them have huge overlapping teeth where lips literally couldn't fit, so why would a particular group that doesn't have massive teeth just have lips? no need to since they were already living in the water

[elfin pulsar]

The size of lips plesiosaurs would have to have to cover their teeth 💀

[wind prairie]

I thought this was bad

[frail swift]

Because I hate when people say things are facts but cant actually back it up with scientific sources.

I cant find any scientific journal or paper that states lipless is conclusive. It’s just the most common depiction so we all go with it

Please if you have anything I will read it

[wind prairie]

it's an unquestioned fact of life. You don't see papers like "tyrannosaurus rex had functionally tridactyl four toed feet" it is what it is

[white matrix]

do not send this ever again. please. was debunked.

[wind prairie]

I know but plesiosaurs with giant fatty lips might be even worse to think about

[frail swift]

I’m sorry but you’re wrong; this is not things like bones; its oral tissue

[wind prairie]

I... I have literally never seen a plesiosaur portrayed like that 💀 also key words "some plesiosaurians surely had exposed teeth"

[sudden wind]

Gameplay wise, it is not representative of the animal's ecology. The animals has too many wrinkles. The skin is not soft but scaly (they either lacked or these were too small to be visible iirc). The head is off (shape and dentition).

https://sobekswimmingpool.wordpress.com/2021/11/20/reconstructing-marine-reptiles-a-guide-to-soft-tissue/

[bright veldt]

There’s no reason to suggest it did have lips is the thing, especially when it’s an elasmosaur and you can just look at any elasmosaur outside of Aristonectinae to see that lips don’t really work

[frail swift]

Some; not all though.

[sudden wind]

Sauropterygia as a whole is probably lipless.

[wind prairie]

some as in the ones that had massive spike hazard teeth

[woeful falcon]

The smart person responded, have a look at their post haha

[wind prairie]

agreed

[frail swift]

Which kai doesnt have

[sudden wind]

https://vxtwitter.com/fishboy86164577/status/1644871031285501954?s=61&t=gTsudo6RMMe17TVmM4Pgpg https://vxtwitter.com/fishboy86164577/status/1644871520861433857?s=61&t=gTsudo6RMMe17TVmM4Pgpg https://vxtwitter.com/fishboy86164577/status/1644872207032815616?s=61&t=gTsudo6RMMe17TVmM4Pgpg https://twitter.com/fishboy86164577/status/1644872323730907137?s=61&t=gTsudo6RMMe17TVmM4Pgpg

[white matrix]

Common Scanova and Neeco W

[wind prairie]

KAI IS DERIVED FROM THE ONES with THE SPIKE TEETH
WHY WOULD IT DELIBERATELY BECOME LIPPED

[bright veldt]

Keep in mind the clade Aristonectines are derived from do though. As specialized as they are they’re still a subfamily within elasmosauridae. Kaiwhekea itself still had some transitionary adaptations as well compared to mortuneria and aristonectes

[jagged oxide]

its an aquatic reptile so no need for lips

[frail swift]

Sea snakes and mosasaurs most likely had lips

[wind prairie]

well I wouldn't say that, mosasaurs, snakes, ichthyosaurs, etc had/have them

[jagged oxide]

yeah but crocs?

[sudden wind]

Kaiwhekea ancestors are other Elasmosaurids. So, it ancestrally would have been lipless and there is no points in regaining lips. I will not say it did not have, but it is extremely unlikely (so much that I would not consider it as valid). That's be the same as suggesting that theropods had earlobes as artificially breed chicken have them imo.

[wind prairie]

was beneficial to not have them and just no reason to have them

[bright veldt]

It really depends in the water. It’s just what we have of plesiosaurs suggest they didn’t.

[sullen cairn]

aye its pycno horns all over again

[bright veldt]

Pycno being a carno clone is more likely than this lmao

[sudden wind]

These reptiles have a completely different foraging method to Sauropterygians and aquatic pseudosuchians.

[jagged oxide]

well what if it was the same for the plesis

[white matrix]

I'd say its similar to people defending bull-dog lipped smilodon

Cause bull dog lips come from human interbreeding

[wind prairie]

mosasaurs are also descended from fat lipped lizards

[jagged oxide]

true and also cute

[sullen cairn]

well maybe kai's actually a mosasaur, explaining why it has lips
checkmate

[white matrix]

checkmate aquatic nerds

[jagged oxide]

[bright veldt]

Whether or not plesiosaurs had scales is up in the air. Rn it’s just kinda assumed they did but were just super tiny like mosasaurs.

[frail swift]

I can relent to Kai most likely having lips but i refuse to budge on them all having them, thats just parroting the common depiction

[sudden wind]

As for Kaiwhekea per say, I'd say that its filter feeding diet would not really be helped by the presence of lips anyway as it filters the things through their teeth by slightly opening their jaws. Whales do it differently as they have baleens only on the upper jaw and cannot shut down their jaws completely.

[frail swift]

also Pycno is a femur bone it can look like whatever it wants

[sudden wind]

But it does not likely had lips.

[elfin pulsar]

Most likely not*

Lmao

[wind prairie]

it's almost like it's common because.. it's.. an unspoken truth??

[frail swift]

I meant moist likely not

[bright veldt]

Also a lot of depictions look like they have lips on the pretense of the teeth being very small and thus would be a nightmare to reconstruct at a distance lol

[frail swift]

Its not truth, you are wrong

[sullen cairn]

pycno having horns implies it convergently evolved keratinous structures identical to those of carnotaurus despite keratinous structures only appearing in brachyrostra once

[sudden wind]

can relent to Kai most likely having lips
Typo moment.

[wind prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/carnotaurus-carnocope-carnotaur-dinosaur-dance-gif-26268749

[sudden wind]

Please, everyone, keep this discussion civil. Scientific discussions should not be used to shame anyone else for their opinions (even if wrong). Just show them your arguments that have been validated and reproduced through decades of studies.

[frail swift]

Feel free to argue with Mark Witton then

[wind prairie]

bro he's the one who asked and then objected our scientifically backed answer

[bright veldt]

Horns even remotely similar to carno in shape and position is only seen in a single other archosaur. That’s my beef with the likelihood of carno horns on pycno. Like at least the single horn on top is fairly common in majungasaurines

[frail swift]

I've seen no science posted

[sullen cairn]

and carno's the one thing with horns in its half of abelisauridae

[bright veldt]

True actually lol, or at least something so noticable

[wind prairie]

can't argue with the pterosaur guy.. whooo...

[frail swift]

Maybe he has a bit more insight into the subject than you do since its his job to reconstruct and study these animals

[wind prairie]

you're refusing to accept it in a way that you can't be argued with

[sullen cairn]

as well know tosha never works on reconstructing prehistoric life

[frail swift]

The only thing I am saying is that plesiosaurs = lipless is not settled universal truth science

[wind prairie]

1. some of his paleoart has plesiosaurs without lips
2. literally every other paleoartist portrays them without lips

[bitter oasis]

General reminder for everyone to please be respectful to other users, refer to our #rules . Discussion can be continued without antagonizing or provoking one another.

[woeful falcon]

Neeco provided proper reasoning and sourced material. Let's not badger amongst ourselves anymore now

[wind prairie]

yeah but like.. bro there's just no way all of them were lipless bro

[frail swift]

Did not say that, at all

[wind prairie]

I could understand pliosaurs being lipless but like...

[woeful falcon]

You're not adding anything to the discussion with that behavior.

[wind prairie]

it's a joke though

[sullen cairn]

it's not very parsimonious to randomly add derived traits to taxa they aren't even ancestral to

[frail swift]

People portrayed trex as being lipless until like 5 or so years ago

[wind prairie]

I mean, what specific genera are you arguing did or did not have lips?

[woeful falcon]

Kangaroo asked us to be respectful to one another, lets

[wind prairie]

elasmosaurs in general probably didn't, there'd be no reason

[bright veldt]

Tbf that was a thing that applies to basically almost all terrestrial taxa

[wind prairie]

but hey proboscideans are better anyways right guys??

[elfin pulsar]

Why does it have built in chopsticks???

[wind prairie]

because stegotetrabelodon was well defended

[frail swift]

It just feels a bit like dogma to conclude that oral tissues across an entire group of animals must be the same and that its settled science when I cant even find anywhere that states said settled science. It feels more like latching onto the popular depiction and misconstruing that as fact. I'm not saying they were all lipped but to say they were all 100% lipless is just wrong

[elfin pulsar]

Wow is that really it’s name?

[wind prairie]

yes :))

[sudden wind]

You are right as no studies actually support the presence of lips, nor the absence. Though, it is more commonly thought for Plesiosaurs and other sauropterygians to have been lipless due to their lifestyle and foraging method, being similar to crocodiles.
Plesiosaurs are snap feeders, rapidly shutting down their jaws. They also have highly splayed teeth that interlock with each others. Several taxon have such degree of interlock and splay that lips cannot be considered not ridiculous for animals with similar adaptations to crocodilians. So, lips would have rapidly been lost during Sauropterygia's evolution and the probability of such character evolving back as it completely disappeared is unlikely.

[wind prairie]

thats what you say you're saying but that's not what you're saying, you're actively arguing for the position that elasmosaurs may have had lips

he explained it better than me

[sudden wind]

However, I would say that they still probably had some gums as like crocodiles do, which would still have not let the whole tooth exposed.

[wind prairie]

imagine if proboscideans had lips over their tusks lol

[frail swift]

No actually; I'm just open to the idea that they possibly could have and there is no study or science that disputes this. Plenty of animals today that belong to the same family have different oral tissues

[frail swift]

Thank you for this

[sullen cairn]

With the dolphin example there’s a difference between losing a plesiomorphic structure and re-evolving one from scratch

[wind prairie]

can we talk about the practicality of platybelodon's feeding mechanism

I mean.. a wood scraper?

I just don't get how it'd work efficiently with those cartoonish square tusks

[frail swift]

Yes but the point is we shouldn't be married to the consensus because animals are weird and variation exists. We don't have soft tissue from plesiosaurs really so I just think its worth noting that the science isn't really settled here

[wind prairie]

bro wants to kiss a plesiosaur so bad he's arguing they had lips (JOKE please don't smite me, but can we talk about proboscideans)

[frail swift]

Eurhinosaurus had fleshy covering over its exposed beak teeth, prove me wrong

[wind prairie]

boy that don't even make sense

[sudden wind]

Thinking about it, Sauropterygians and Pseudosuchians would not be the only Archosaur lineages to lost lips. Others like Tanystropheids did too as well as Pterosaurs. Maybe Vancleavea too? But I am not sure. Mammals also have evolved lipless condition in cetaceans, possibly several times. Spinosaurids may have too.

[wind prairie]

unless I've misinterpreted what you just said, you're implying that they... just had no teeth on their beak tip

[frail swift]

I was joking there

[wind prairie]

ok

[frail swift]

I wonder if its easier to lose lips than to gain them

[sudden wind]

Lips are probably ancestral to tetrapods.

So, lips were likely not evolved independently.

[wind prairie]

gotta be impossible to gain em back when you're a rhamphorhynchoid pterosaur, golly

[frail swift]

So I wonder then if crocs started with lips or lost and regained them in some lineages?

[wind prairie]

I don't think I've seen animals more bear trap pilled

imagine the damage from one of these things gnawing at your wrist

[frail swift]

The science is still out

I bet you if I dig hard enough I can find a lipped Ramph

[wind prairie]

taker of fingers he is, the phalanx plunderer

[wind prairie]

nahh

[frail swift]

hold the phone

[wind prairie]

oh no

PLEASE

[sudden wind]

They probably lost it once at the Metasuchian split and did not evolved back these.

[frail swift]

did pterosaurs from Anurognathidae have beaks?

[wind prairie]

heavens no

[frail swift]

so... they have lips?

[wind prairie]

probably afaik

[frail swift]

Thats like; the only animal I can think of that probably had to regain lips?

[wind prairie]

I really can't imagine them without them

pet peeve but I'm sick of dsungaripterus's crest being portrayed like this, like the absolute bare minimum from the skull

the little point at the back feels so unnatural, that would definitely be an attachment point so that the crest could be bigger right?

[light osprey]

I thought it looked pretty

[runic aspen]

Not ironically the only representation of a Dsungaripterus with a larger crest i have ever seen. (Credits to the artist)

[light osprey]

Yeah I went looking didn’t find much

[wind prairie]

see bottom one there is how I imagine it

[light osprey]

I suppose the novel interpretation seems more unique to people

[wind prairie]

same thing with tapejarids

they certainly have it better but when people continue to keep the crest like this on the skin and meat animal I just..

[wind prairie]

wonderful.

but this??.. ew

[light osprey]

Indeed

Tupandactylus really steals the show when it comes to Tapejarid displays

[wind prairie]

their jaws are still weird to me though

[sudden wind]

Or they probably did not lost them at all.

Meanwhile, some non monofenestratan lineages lost them independently, as well as pterodactyloids ancestrally.

[gaunt raven]

I kinda like the little crest, it makes it more unique but at the same time I really like the big crest too

[rose thorn]

Ehhhh, that’s something that should be treated by a case by case basis honestly. Backward bone struts aren’t always attachment points (see nyctosaurs, lambeosaurs, etc) and usually take a deeper look into the texture of the bone past a simple glance. I don’t doubt that the general crest would be larger, but the shape may have stayed consistent as soft tissue rose above it.

[sullen cairn]

ngl for a clade generally associated with horns and similar cranial structures abelisaurids were pretty awful at actually having horns

[light osprey]

Sounds like anti-Carnotaurus propaganda

[sullen cairn]

carnotaurus is just weird

[white matrix]

or maybe the others are weird

[west coral]

At least they have horns, table

appreciate what you have 🙄

[white matrix]

That's why for me abelisaurids defining features aren't ornementations x)

[light osprey]

It’s their personality

[west coral]

Small arms count as ornaments

[white matrix]

When I see ornament I always think of head crests, horns etc...

[west coral]

https://tenor.com/view/kaperoo-prehistoric-planet-david-attenborough-hans-zimmer-carnotaurus-gif-25467585

arm ornamentation is also a thing

[light osprey]

Defining creature is pretty obviously the anteriorly compressed skulls

[white matrix]

Does anyone know when pantherine's orginins come from? Last I heard somewhere in Tanzania during middle pliocene?

[pearl briar]

is this possible for a front facing deinosuchus?

[frail swift]

I know this is a dead horse but could anyone direct me to something stating Kaiwhekeas diet? I know people are saying filter feeder but everything I read says it was eating soft bodied organisms like squid

[frosty anvil]

Both sound pretty plausible to me ngl

[frosty anvil]

Probably lmao crocodilians are soo cute

[frail swift]

I am trying to learn but info on this guy is rough. As far as I can tell people think it filter fed due to being redescribed to a Elasmosaur group that is known for filter feeding?

[frosty anvil]

I don't have any references for ya but both sound plausible for me, any chance it couldve done both?

[bright veldt]

I can send something. Hang on.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02724634.2017.1347570

The study is on Mortuneria in particular, but it includes Aristonectes and Kaiwhekea in having similar adaptations. Keep in mind Kaiwhekea hasn't been studied itself extensively. I think the only paper that focuses on it is...it's description like a decade ago, which is when it was thought to be a squid-eating cryptoclidid rather than the filter-feeding elasmosaur it is now.

[clever sable]

So that's why it's named that, I always thought that was a weird name for a filter feeder

[bright veldt]

Yeah

[frail swift]

I cant read it because I need a log in 😭

[bright veldt]

hang on, I got a figure from it

[white matrix]

you can use sci-hub

[bright veldt]

Ok this man just got it on hand ok

[sullen cairn]

^

[frail swift]

Thanks!

[bright veldt]

Here's what I was lookin for

Also, for something else marine reptile related

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-lcXMHs67YAtan8TK7RKTkiMheNC8cnB/view

[white matrix]

this is very cool

[bright veldt]

A new prognathodon fossil found....with three other smaller mosasaurs in stomach. The first was a smaller member of it's own kind (the first direct evidence of mosasaur cannibalism), the second is a Gavialimimus, and the third is a completely new species, named Bentiabosaurus.

[white matrix]

when was this published

[sullen cairn]

why do we need to a pdf for the open access paper

[bright veldt]

idk, this was the link that was shared with me lol

[white matrix]

Oh so when a Prognathodon is found to have evidence of cannibalism it's a remarkable discovery

But when I

https://tenor.com/view/guh-gif-25116077

[sullen cairn]

i'm not sure if being discovered after dying in a footprint, being eaten, or underneath a carcass is a stupider way to go

[light osprey]

What sort of Mosasaur is Bentiabasaurus

[light osprey]

Convergent evolution

[bright veldt]

Bentiabasaurus is a mosasaurine, apparently closely related to mosasaurus itself.

[white matrix]

Mosasaurs were truly remarkable in their diversity

true!

[light osprey]

Why can’t we find diagnostic Maastrichtian Plesiosaurs this often

[white matrix]

plesiosaurs dont have the guts to do so!

[light osprey]

not specifically guts, just in general

[white matrix]

it was supposed to be a pun

[frail swift]

2 things I took away from that paper which was really awesome btw

[light osprey]

Wait wait, I get the pun now

[white matrix]

YES lmao

[sullen cairn]

bravo

[frail swift]

“Kaiwhekea could not have lips”

[light osprey]

Not this again

[frail swift]

Also Kaiwhekea is likened to basal toothed baleen whales but I dont know what that means

[light osprey]

Mysticeti does not equal Aristonectinae

[bright veldt]

tbf it's also a one-off comment that wasn't followed in any way, and is still not actively supported by anything, which they say themselves, of course the teeth are small enough to where it's possible, but it's just something not seen, especially when, as pointed out before, aristonectine filter feeding doesn't work the same as baleen whales mechanically

[sullen cairn]

let's just all agree that the most parsimonious option is to assume kai didn't have lips, though there is a nonzero chance it could've developed lips as they may be vaguely congurent with filter-feeding

[white matrix]

i'd find this more interesting to read rather than the everday "how big was this" discussions

[frail swift]

Thank you for saying its possible, thats all I ever wanted from this discord

[light osprey]

how big was Morturneria 😈

[bright veldt]

The large aristonectines were THE largest non-pliosaur plesiosaurs tbf. It really was baleen whale syndrome.

[sullen cairn]

gsp when that book's one job

[light osprey]

Apparently suspension feeding is the way to go

[frail swift]

Also its interesting how out of all them Kais teeth dont splay outward but appear to be vertical. Hence why they liken it to basal baleen whales that still had more traditional teeth

[white matrix]

https://tenor.com/view/anotz-gif-21110899

[light osprey]

They also diversified real damn fast, one would reckon, too fast to revert on a Sauropterygian plesiomorphy like liplessness

[bright veldt]

Yeah that's the main thing. There's nothing to suggest it and they're a fairly young group that derived from snaggle-toothed ancestors.

[white matrix]

table when a new Maastrichtian abeli gets described (not happeneing)

[sullen cairn]

kid named la colonia thing

i mean technically it's kinda described already but by "description" i mean there's a figured ungual nasal fragment and maxillary fragment

[light osprey]

La Colonia Ankylosaur takes priority or whatever

[sullen cairn]

nuh uh

[white matrix]

la colonia spinosaurid material (2033)

[sullen cairn]

real

[light osprey]

Description pending in 2060

[white matrix]

true

[sullen cairn]

i wonder how my maxilla fragment scaling will hold up when la colonia thing gets described

[light osprey]

I hope fairly well, for the sanity of ecology

[frail swift]

That’s fair, I am curious as to why kais teeth are so random compared to the others on the graph

[sullen cairn]

piss i lost my scaling of it

[bright veldt]

It might be because it was a fairly basal aristonectine. It didn't have them all splayed out yet like the others.

[sullen cairn]

wait that's a lie
4.5m calling it ladies and gentlemen

[white matrix]

Lord…

What have you done

[sullen cairn]

i'm content with normal abelisaur size for the guy

[light osprey]

Transitional morphology, or maybe just did something slightly different

Ecologically speaking

[frail swift]

Thank you again for that paper I dont know why it was so hard to find but it helped a lot

[bright veldt]

👍

[pearl briar]

that is why i love them

[frail swift]

Maybe when Leed comes out Kai can eat whatever it eats. Or maybe it will be more cursed and leed will also eat fish

[light osprey]

Not to worry, PT have Aristonectes planned

[frosty anvil]

Spinosaurus in WW2 on April 24, 1944

[sullen cairn]

updated tyrannosaurini/hadrosaur chart because i put bars in neutral and shrunk suecheng because reasons

[ruby patio]

Can you send the zhucheng skeletal

[sullen cairn]

you could probably make it bigger if you throw in dimensions besides maxillary/dentary length but like i don't care enough to

its just a headswap of joan's headswap onto his newer tarbo

suecheng shrink was just cause i threw in centrum height and that chopped off like 30cm

if you want to unshrink it back to 11m or whatever it was that's prolly fine but i'm just mean downsizer

[storm heron]

How large can they get by the way?

[alpine island]

Does anyone have a good skeletal or restoration of Scelidosaurus?

[nocturne gazelle]

What predators would aristonectes have to worry about and how would it defend itself?

[light osprey]

Prognathodon, Mosasaurus, Moanasaurus, and Kaikaifilu probably

[sudden wind]

Zu really getting dwarfed

[sudden wind]

Swimming away.

[rose thorn]

average sized Edmonto?

[light osprey]

No silly that’s clearly the largest one

[stiff osprey]

the edmont is average but the shant is not... clearly table is being facetious towards hadrosaur population dynamics

[sullen cairn]

The shant’s scaled to the quarry femur average assuming siw didn’t make that up

[stiff osprey]

127 cm? that looks more like 172cm

[sullen cairn]

So I was lied to

I will shrink his ass then

[stiff osprey]

could've sworn the kugou quarry had a 127 cm average

but i can't find the paper so maybe go with 149.8

[sullen cairn]

I will still shrink his ass 😊

[light osprey]

Get shrunkened

[hallow spear]

Go with 127 because small is better

[austere glade]

@fluid inlet at the same time, paleontologist have even said that they can't say that this is how dinosaurs looked because we never actually got to look at a great majority of them

But the scientists who "discovered" the brontosaurus fossils said themselves that they had mistook the fossils being in one spot and in the same dig sight to mean that it was a whole skeleton.
This isn't an opinion, this actually happened and you can even look it up 😂
It anyways, back to what I was saying, whatever dinosaur your talking about, it could just be another situation like the brontosaurus, where they accidentally mashed fossils from different species together.

[sullen cairn]

man

[compact leaf]

being chimeric isn’t even the biggest problem, we could deal with that but the fossils don’t even exist anymore

we literally can’t say anything about the animal with confidence other than “it was a big sauropod”

[austere glade]

I completely agree

[white matrix]

Achillobator?

[stiff osprey]

and Utah on the top

[clever sun]

My favorite dromeosaur

[snow python]

What is Scipionyx an coelurosaurid?

[stiff osprey]

Coelurosauridae doesn't exist, it may be a compsognathid or a carcharodontosaurid

[light osprey]

Why so tall

[sullen cairn]

because it's like 7m long for some reason

[light osprey]

Thought that was just it’s tail fan

Here’s a better one anyways

[lavish frigate]

He he he. Dakotaraptor is my favorite turtle

[light osprey]

It’s my favorite Oviraptor too

[tranquil quartz]

Dakotaraptor is my favourite ….

[lavish frigate]

Let’s be generous and say it has some actual Dromaeosaur material

[light osprey]

There is some, and I believe it’s still “large” maybe Deinonychus sized?

[bright veldt]

If it’s dromaeosaur material. It may easily not be. Same for the supposed sickle claw.

[sudden wind]

https://fxtwitter.com/somniosusw/status/1722346506186072216?s=46&t=xGi5apPCvowzJSKCFHEl5Q

[white matrix]

Ah Dakotaraptor my favorite baby Rex/Therizinosaur

[lavish frigate]

How many things are in Dakotaraptor???

Turtle oviraptorosaur Tyrannosaurus and therizinosaur?!?

[white matrix]

*possible Therizinosaur

The supposed toe claw closely resembles both a juvi Rex's toe claws and a Therizinosaur hand claw

[lavish frigate]

Good gosh this poor animal can’t decide what it wants to be…

[bright veldt]

Whatever it is, it ain't a valid taxa.

[tough parcel]

Therizinosaur was proposed by one guy also it’s a claw. Considering there’s 0 evidence of any substantially sized therizinosaur in NA outside of footprints in Alaska, I’m leaning more towards juvenile rex

[white matrix]

I never said it was absolutely a Therizinosaur

[tough parcel]

Imo it’s so out there, just don’t mention it

[light osprey]

Has anyone tried to scale the Cantwell footprints?

maybe table would give it a try

[stiff osprey]

I know they are not from big animals, for therizinosaur standards

[light osprey]

Nonetheless neat as hell

[lavish frigate]

New Dakotaraptor just dropped

[little mauve]

Yellow are the therizinosaur, blue is a hadrosaur

[white matrix]

https://tenor.com/view/dawg-skull-emoji-gif-24661581

[little mauve]

"These tetradactyl footprints average 21.4 cm in length. Using the standard equation to determine hip height from footprints of dinosaurs as approximately four times the track length, these pes tracks suggest a hip height estimate of approximately 85.6 cm for this trackmaker."

[stiff osprey]

I thought each of the bars was a meter for a second

Hadrosaur with 3 meter long feet

[tough parcel]

The apex predator of Alaska…

[little mauve]

Sasquatcholophus macropodus

[light osprey]

So a bit on the diminutive size

Thats sounds roughy Neimongosaurus sized maybe?

[compact leaf]

are the alaskan footprints maastrichtian or earlier than that?

none of you saw that

[light osprey]

I indeed missed it, I hear they are Maastrichtian

[sullen cairn]

larramendi already scaled it

[light osprey]

Omg it’s even smaller. What a lil cutie

[little mauve]

"Sampling at the East Fork of the Toklat River surrounded a bentonite with a radiometric age of 69.5 +/− 0.7 Ma"

31 tracks in total so could be a social group of some kind

[compact leaf]

I'm looking at collections now because I'm curious, apparently there's a south african maybe therizinosauroid I didn't know about

[stiff osprey]

Why he scale a maastrichtian therizinosaur off god dam falcarius

[compact leaf]

it's larramendi why are we even asking questions at this point, he can't be stopped

[stiff osprey]

I mean as far as footprint scaling goes he's always the sane guy

If you discount the actual sane guys who don't footprint scale at all

[little mauve]

The paper itself compares the track to Erlikosaurus

[compact leaf]

I just like to make jokes about it, I can't complain too much because life would be a lot more difficult without his scaling

that being said this is the same man that used nigersaurus to tooth scale rebbachisaurus

[white matrix]

Common larramendi W

[light osprey]

Is including both the Hadrosaur and Therizinosaur tracks?

[little mauve]

No that's just the therizinosaur

[light osprey]

Oh wow

[little mauve]

The paper doesn't give a specific count for the hadrosaur tracks, just that they're much more numerous

[light osprey]

As to be expected I suppose

[little mauve]

Multi-age too, whereas all the therizinosaur tracks are from similarly sized (or just one) individual

[light osprey]

I wonder just how numerous these Edmontosaur herds could be

[little mauve]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-30110-8#Fig8 it's a great paper, got some ecological speculation in it too

[little mauve]

Some evidence of truly massive hadrosaur herds, Maiasaura comes to mind. Smaller groups are totally possible though too, I'm sure there was tons of variation

[sullen cairn]

ruth mason quarry had hundreds if not thousands of individuals in a mass death assemblage

[little mauve]

Thousands seems definitely possible

[light osprey]

Wow, that’s a spectacular image

I feel like artwork depicting herds felt a bit conserved, but it seems the full expanse of gregarity was more than I could have guessed

[little mauve]

Classic Douglas Henderson art

I agree, would love to see more stuff depicting massive herds

[sullen cairn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdVIxS8tgYM&t=51s something like this on the scale of elephant-sized animals would be cinematic af

[bright veldt]

Speaking of caribou, I just wanted to share this on the pretense of how absolutely insane this is

[stiff osprey]

If I'm any sort of prey item and a predator chases me for 62 kilometers I'm just giving up. Bro deserves to win at that point

[little mauve]

I wonder how dangerous the stampede itself would be to the hadrosaurs. Collisions, falls, etc. I recall some footage of bald eagles hunting snow geese and they basically just picked off the injured ones after spooking the flock

[light osprey]

Certainly sounds like a plausible method for those more comparatively diminutive resident apex predators

The Ibero-Armorican Island comes to mind

[little mauve]

Abelisaur top predator?

[light osprey]

Yes indeed

[little mauve]

Yeah they frequently feel somewhat on the small side for contemporary sauropod prey, I wonder what their strategy was

[sullen cairn]

i believe in him

[little mauve]

Yeah that actually doesn't look too bad

[light osprey]

Although there might be some similarly sized Lambeosaurs from there now that I think about it

[sullen cairn]

for whatever reason i am less inclined to believe in tremp tooth

[uncut holly]

Hello all, just purchased the game & new to the Discord 😊 I just wanted to share my boyfriend's YouTube channel here with you all since many of you seem to enjoy paleotology.
https://www.youtube.com/@PaleoAnalysis

[light osprey]

Damn I wish Castignovolucris was in there

[sullen cairn]

pronto when a random bird that has been named for less than a year isn't in a chart

[sullen cairn]

Aye i've seen that before, great videos

[uncut holly]

Aw, thank you! We put a lot of hard work into them

[sullen cairn]

I remember binging a good few of em a couple months back, they're great to chill out to

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/david-laid-gym-jim-gif-13128523665496758442

[nocturne gazelle]

I almost wish my state had Wolverines both because they're cool and because that's my states nickname...

But reading this it's probably best that they aren't here

[lost basin]

Türk var mı

[proud perch]

Hello and welcome to the official Path of Titans Discord server! If you want to speak Turkish, please use the #türkçe channel. Additionally, please read the pinned messages for guidelines on posting in each channel, as well as our #rules. Thank you!

Merhaba ve resmi Path of Titans Discord sunucusuna hoş geldiniz! Türkçe konuşmak istiyorsanız lütfen Türkçe kanalını (#türkçe) kullanın. Ek olarak, lütfen her kanalda paylaşım yapma yönergeleri ve kurallarımız için sabitlenmiş mesajları okuyun (#rules). Teşekkür ederim!

[sullen cairn]

i just learned the ekrix+skorpiovenator clade survived the cenomanian-turonian boundary and that makes me very happy

that clade really should get a name sometime

awww it's tiny like llukalkan too

[scenic flame]

is that you rajang?

[storm heron]

Survived beyond the turonian period?

[sullen cairn]

yup

there's ~4m guy kicking around in santonian bajo de la carpa

[storm heron]

Closely related to Ekrixinatosaurus and Skorpiovenator?

[sullen cairn]

indeed

i'm shocked the paper wasn't paywalled cause all the cool upper cretaceous gondwanan papers of the past couple years have been closed access

[storm heron]

Ohohoho, I must know more about this specimen

[sullen cairn]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/366408796_A_non-furileusaurian_caudal_vertebra_from_the_Bajo_de_la_Carpa_Formation_Upper_Cretaceous_Santonian_and_morphological_variation_in_the_tail_of_Abelisauridae

[storm heron]

Many thanks

[sullen cairn]

it's also probably a bit larger than ~4m (3.6m with regressions) cause that's scaling a ~15th caudal with the first caudal of ekrix and skorpio

skorp osteology doesn't have caudal measurements

[storm heron]

Ah I see

[sullen cairn]

Fun phylogeny too

hm well i absolutely hate the skorp osteology's phylogeny

[pearl briar]

ahh yes my favorite abelisaur
MAU-Pv-CO-598

[gaunt raven]

That’s why wolverines are top tier animals

[storm shuttle]

Megaraptorans 🔛 🔝

[white matrix]

Machairodontines 🥴

[light osprey]

Scaphitid ammonites or something >

[lavish heron]

curious to know people's opinions on "Nanotyrannus" and if u agree with the sentiment that it is simply a juvenile T. Rex

[tranquil quartz]

I mean there is nothing to disagree with, it quite literally is a juvenile Tyrannosaurus

[lavish heron]

it is 😭 yet I still see it referred to as "dubious genus"

like bro there's nothing dubious about it some lil Rex just had a very bad day

[sullen cairn]

that's... what a dubious genus is?

[light osprey]

Every fossil is just an animal that had a bad day Fr

[gaunt raven]

YES I just meant modern mammalian animals

[storm shuttle]

oh

[gaunt raven]

Megaraptorans are my favorites dinosaurs after spinosaurids

[lavish heron]

I've always thought dubious genus to mean that it could have been it's own genus, but it isn't concrete?

[sullen cairn]

Dubious genus just means nomen dubium

Ergo invalid taxon, ie nanotyrannus

[lavish heron]

ah, I wasn't aware it was synonymous with wastebasket taxon

[sullen cairn]

wastebaskets aren't neccesarily invalid

though plenty of em do tend to be undiagnostic, hence why they end up as wastebaskets

[light osprey]

Usually the type species is probably valid (?)

At least that’s how it is for a few Elasmosaurs

[sullen cairn]

if the type species isn't valid then any other referred species would be referred to a new genus

or be syntarsus and have a species that doesn't even clade with the type species of its referred genus and so is stuck with the old invalid anyways

[magic jacinth]

(sorry if this been posted already) thoughts?

[clever sable]

Pretty cool

[stiff osprey]

Looks unsafe, I would not stand under a megalania

[white matrix]

I wonder if thats how tall it'd actually be standing on its hind legs

[gaunt raven]

Considering certain monitor lizards have much more upright stances it is possible that it would have been taller

[magic jacinth]

yea thats totally true, this pose looks almost like its getting ready to wrestle with another libzarddd

[gaunt raven]

Indeed

[steady rock]

how much did acro weigh?

[jagged trellis]

like 5.5-6.8 tons if i recall

[steady rock]

off topic rq but how the hell were these tiny sauropods survivng with massive therapods

[compact leaf]

I'm assuming you're talking about rebbachisaurids?

[white matrix]

Just 6t range, no higher

[hushed turtle]

Wait are Troodons are no longer a valid species

I’ve been hearing a ton of different stuff about the troodon recently, and some of them have said that the troodon is no longer a species anymore or something. So if anyone knows I would be glad for them to tell me.

[ancient crystal]

Troodon as in the genus is no longer valid, iirc its because its fossils are non-diagnostic but I could be totally wrong there.

Troodontidae as a clade still exists though

[hushed turtle]

Ok, thank you

[woeful falcon]

Ye, its fossil consists of a tooth

[hushed turtle]

And I’m guessing that’s not enough evidence to make it valid?

[woeful falcon]

Nah, undiagnostic as Venator said. Other things considered Troodon are now their own genera, like Latenivenatrix and Stenonychosaurus

And those two have also been synonymized recently

[hushed turtle]

Ok. Thanks for the information venator and blurb

Oops. I hate auto correct, but it’s also helpful sometimes. *Blub

[pearl briar]

acro is such a good ark tame too

[tiny holly]

From what I can tell dubious basically boils down to "while it could be real if new evidence was present that fits, none of the current material validates this taxon" Usually you would need new material to validate it again, but sometimes re-analysis gives it a reason to stick around (although rarely without contention lol)

aka; could there have been a smaller tyrannosaurid that lived alongside T. rex? Maybe, but nothing currently supports that and we would need to find new material

[warm temple]

Featherless

Biped

[tulip dove]

Did Diplodocids hold their necks horizontally or in more upright posture?

Just need to make sure, doing a little presentation

[tiny holly]

diagonally but more upright basically. not straight up like you see in something like brachiosaurus, but a little more extreme than a 45 degree angle

i cant find the exact image I'm looking for much this stock image is essentially the same

[tulip dove]

Seen some people say that they would have held their necks horizontally because of some huge collosal tendon supports, does that back it up or not? Because I have no clue about it but I am still on the upright posture side

[hallow spear]

this is plausible but it doesnt make others not plausible

I mean an even more upright pose*

[tiny holly]

yeah afaik its specific to diplodocus, not that other diplodocids wouldn't have been like that I'm just not sure off the top of my head if they've had any similar studies done

[hallow spear]

its used for diplodocids

[glad carbon]

Idk if this is the right chat to ask this question but is there any evidence that sarcosuchus back legs were the same size as its front? In the game model the back legs are super skinny, but after binge watching some croc and gator feeding videos I realized their hind legs are a lot more muscular, the back feet are bigger, and the legs are longer. While they got the length right, I was just wondering if this is actually apparent in sarco or is just a model discrepancy.

[compact leaf]

there is also a bit of wiggle room with the posture, you can feasibly have it at a 45 degree angle but having it slightly lower is also still possible but not horizontal (yay cartilage)

I’m pretty sure Brian Curtice is working on some stuff with postures right now, but he has a pile of other stuff so we probably won’t see that right away

[bright veldt]

The only sauropods that are outright horizontal now are diceaeosaurids and some rebbachisaurids

Everything else is diagonal or outright upright

[light osprey]

Trachea left the chat

[gaunt raven]

I mean its a monitor lizard why would it have had feathers in the first place

[west coral]

new fadeno grypo

[lavish frigate]

Anyone know of dinosaur groups that are underrepresented in spec evo stuff? Looking for cool additions to my project

[sullen cairn]

I like that the gryposaurus took like a week longer than the titanceratops skeletal to start getting circulated around

Oh it got posted in ornithischia that’s why

[light osprey]

Gryposaurus material not too shabby

[west coral]

Very fragmentary

[light osprey]

Wuh

[teal sinew]

I thought Meg was bigger

[magic jacinth]

Haha yea it actually confuses me in the opposite way cause mega looks so similar to modern day varanids we have. I always think its slightly bigger then a komodo but it is in fact a lot bigger lol

Plus this might be a more conservative estimate, but im not sure at all when it comes to megs real size

[bright veldt]

Megalania's size has varied, but the current agreed size is 6 meters, or 20 feet. It's mostly been that throughout history as well, although there was a brief phase where it was considered only slightly larger than komodos (4 meters or so).

[magic jacinth]

Thanks for this! So with this info in mind would you say its a relatively accurate sizing, id say it looks pretty well like 20 feet, the photo i posted of the model that is

[magic jacinth]

@bright veldt if you havent seen it.

[bright veldt]

We have an idea thanks to the first properly rigorous skeletal of megalania that got made like a year ago

[sullen cairn]

why is scanova a penguin

this feels wrong

[bright veldt]

@tough parcel made a reconstruction based on this

[light osprey]

I just realized it was Scanova

[copper flame]

anything new on siats

[stiff osprey]

scanova the spheniscus

[radiant ridge]

Small ornithopodians like leallynasaura

[white matrix]

noasaurs, elasmarians

nodosaurs honestly

[tough parcel]

Why are you sorry about posting Wikipedia lmao

[light osprey]

More reliable than 99% of “palaeontology websites”

[woeful falcon]

Wikipedia's fine homie

[light osprey]

Or just be a cool kid and use google scholar

[sullen cairn]

indeed

[woeful falcon]

Not everything will be right or up to date on it but that's where learning to use the site benefits

[sullen cairn]

wikipedia's mostly fine unless it's old size estimates

[light oxide]

It's just the matter of stating "Oh -- Wikipedia is 100% ACCURATE!!!" that is wrong.

Always look through multiple reliable sources. Helps in general.

[sullen cairn]

or pycno's age

grrrrr

[woeful falcon]

Yeah but mass estimates change every two seconds with a person's recon and if you've got your head deep in sizing you're already losing yourself

[light osprey]

Size estimates are the least important marker of “accuracy” really
Beat me to it Blub

[woeful falcon]

But that does illustrate a good point, if you know where wikipedia may be outdated or inaccurate, navigating it isn't difficult

[white matrix]

you can edit the page and change it, its easy

[light osprey]

ahem google scholar

[sullen cairn]

but then i can't get mad at it

[white matrix]

true

[woeful falcon]

Don't forget to cite!

[sullen cairn]

my source is spiritual guidance

or as our dear departed friend once said, chatgpt et al

[light osprey]

It came to me in a dream

[white matrix]

@sullen cairn it says this in the script tho idk if its right

[sullen cairn]

long story

[white matrix]

not that guy

[light osprey]

My alt account of course

[sullen cairn]

pycno should be like 72 Ma at the latest

yeah this channel still kinda sucks and is usually dead
shockingly

[light osprey]

Has anyone tried to give a predicted size for Chubutinectes?

[woeful falcon]

What's the uh, source on the 72ma bc that should be an easy edit and citation

[white matrix]

size talks 🤮

[light osprey]

There is literally no easy accessible information on general size for it, so I need something 😠

[sullen cairn]

cambambe paper/some bauru overview or something
i have a message with em from a few weeks ago

these two

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/341685456_PETROGRAPHY_AND_DIAGENESIS_OF_THE_CAMBAMBE_BASIN_CHAPADA_DOS_GUIMARAES_MATO_GROSSO_STATE_BRAZIL

[light osprey]

Time for some edits

[sullen cairn]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316276027_New_dinosaur_remains_and_the_tetrapod_fauna_from_the_Upper_Cretaceous_of_Mato_Grosso_State_central_Brazil

[white matrix]

paleo chat lore:

Table being here for the sole purpose of lying in wait to jump someone the second they say urc is adult pycno.
Cuttlefish talking about tooth scaled rebbachisaur from larramendi
TK with my usual cenozoic obsession
Chonk just vibin in the corner
Falcon's existence slowly dying
Random thinking on how to downsize more things
PugMaster making dinosaur formation size chart #45
Scanova out here handling all the size inaccuracies from #modding
Neeco being that one aquatic man.
Fred's sarcosuchus obsession
Gbones popping in once in a blue moon, but cooking when they're here.
blub suddenly appearing when someone mentions tyrannosaur skeletals

[light osprey]

There’s also gbones, but they just waltz in every 3 years to give us the greatest papers known to man and then disappear again

[sullen cairn]

i am actually here for the sole purpose of lying in wait to jump someone the second they say urc is adult pycno

[white matrix]

Imm adding that lol

[light osprey]

Paleo-chat lore needs a pin Fr

[west coral]

46, i made bissekty

[light osprey]

The birds

I want more birds tbh, do Lecho now (please)

[west coral]

by the way left to right:
Caegnathasia, Azhdarcho, Turanoceratops, Bissekty giant, Kuszholia, Therizinosauridae indet. Dzharatitanis, Itemirus, Timurlengia, Ulughbegsaurus, Bactrosaurus, Dzharaonyx, Bissektipelta, Euronychodon, Titanosauria indet. Gilmoreosaurus, “Archaeornithomimus” and Levnesovia

[west coral]

birds

[light osprey]

In my headcanon this is the actual faunal composition of this environment

Also that’s a bigass enantiornthean

[west coral]

orange is the enantiornis itself, and dark green is the big soroavi

[west coral]

but yeah silly little titanosaur and thousands of birds

[sullen cairn]

pot carni theropod chart because reasons

[barren compass]

weird ass quality but any inaccuracies u guys can spot in this drawing?

[ocean brook]

Is there any other good skeletals for Chilesaurus or is it just this one?

[white matrix]

Now herbi 😈

[barren compass]

idk which one tho lmao

[frosty anvil]

Give me some dinosaurs that are a good in-between size of a spinosaurus and a dakotaraptor (invalid genus now so lets say achillobator)
Not as big as spino not as small as achillo just a good in between

[sullen cairn]

Like 95% of carnosauria and tyrannosauroidea

And derived thyreophorans ceratopsids and hadrosauromorphs

[hushed turtle]

Were the Theriz claws actually sharp enough to stab through any dinosaurs that could pose a threat to it or were they too weak and only used for intimidation. Ik that they were prob not sharp enough to stab through giga because that’s insane.

[tiny holly]

From what we can tell their claws all in all weren't really built for fighting. They were particularly not very stress-resistant when it comes to slashing motions, but would have held up a bit better in a stabbing motion. That being said it doesn't mean they'd snap the moment a theri tried fighting with them or anything, just that the theri risks hurting itself by doing so. They still would have been pretty gnarly to get hit with.

At the end of the day if you have to choose between messing up your hand and making it hurt really bad, or a predator ending your life... you're gonna pick the former. Animals will do something that hurts themselves if it means not dying.

[lavish frigate]

This Paleo chat is missing something….aha. David peters Azhdarchids

[wispy summit]

Why is the pycno tiny?

[barren compass]

any inaccuraices yall can notice? I tried to make it as accurate as possible

[sullen cairn]

cause its a subadult

[wispy summit]

How big would the adult possibly get?

And also isn't alio also a subadult?

[wispy summit]

Fair

[sullen cairn]

yup

[wispy summit]

Also you forgot about microraptor on your size chart

[sullen cairn]

i am lazy and it is too small for me to care

[wispy summit]

Yeah

[sullen cairn]

and i don't want to put that twig into neutral

pycno also suffers from metri being deceptively large and the das and allo presented being substantially longer than itself

i say that when metri's still like half the mass of pycno

[ancient crystal]

At this point I find it hard to believe David Peters is taking anything he does seriously.

Like, that doesn't at all look like an actual animal.

[brittle heath]

Pickle bullying dinosaurs in the cretaceous era 🗿

[bright veldt]

Therizinosaur claws are interesting because of how it may actually have been primarily a display feature, which is something that I didn't quite expect. They can be used defensively, but they are not particularly strong for that purpose so it wouldn't really make sense if they were evolved to be used in that way. They likely weren't key to foraging either because the heads and necks of therizinosaurs already reached higher and farther than their arms and hands could, so its doubtful they evolved for that purpose either.

[magic monolith]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-023-04552-4

funny how theri has bad claws,but not any other

[light oxide]

So . . . Like deer antlers, in a way?

[magic monolith]

seemingly

[sudden wind]

We don't really know. They just ain't good at gathering food, puncturing and scratching. So, it may indeed be sexually pressured.

[still prairie]

Maybe they'd be more bright and larger technically?

[light osprey]

Not necessarily

[blissful bison]

I received fossils

[white matrix]

(credit to ville sinkkonen)

[rose thorn]

Ehhh, deer don’t hurt themselves/willingly put themselves in predicaments in which their antlers break. With Theri, it’s my pet theory anyway that the claws could regrow incredibly quick after breaking in defensive spats.

It’s even more bizarre that Theri, the largest member of its family, developed claws with seemingly no other purpose outside intimidation and or display when practically every other therizinosaur has claws with some sort of function in food gathering/defense through digging and or slashing

[white matrix]

Hindlimb dewclaw, need to confront PK!!!!!

[still prairie]

Especially since theri lived with the largest tyrannosaurid in Asia

[light osprey]

It can swim

Everything else regarding that is subject to interpretation.

[light osprey]

Spinosaurus did the things that Spinosaurus did. This includes hunting, sleeping, and sexual reproduction

[lavish frigate]

This is a true!

[gaunt raven]

Prove it did

That’s some fair reasoning however no.

[white matrix]

Does anyone know if prehensile lips are still supported for hippidiforms (hippidion in this case)?

[white matrix]

was looking into it for a model

[gaunt raven]

That’s disgusting

[sullen cairn]

we've observed parthenogenesis in crocodiles and birds so it's not impossible...

[white matrix]

prehensile lips?

I dont see how its gross

[jagged trellis]

which birds may i ask since i was wondering about this awhile ago, knew monitor lizards and crocodilians could among others, but huh birds

[gaunt raven]

It just is but at the same time it’s really cool and I do believe that it is still supported

[gaunt raven]

Source: Trust me bro birds do it

@jagged trellis California Condors have done it and I think Turkeys can as well

[light osprey]

I think not but this is simply based off of recent paleo reconstructive art I’ve seen

[gaunt raven]

That has 43 pages I’m not reading all that

[sullen cairn]

Same

[light osprey]

Hippidion

[gaunt raven]

American crocodiles, which are the only ones that I know of able to do it

[jagged trellis]

huh neat

[elfin pulsar]

What did saurophagnax prey on? Curious if what I’m looking at is right

[stiff osprey]

Stegosaurus, any sauropod in the area

[elfin pulsar]

Which sauropods?

[light osprey]

The Morrison one’s

[compact leaf]

juveniles of basically anything and adults of the smaller species

[light osprey]

I was thinking I could give you a list of the Kenton member stuff. But that’s too hard 🥱

[sullen cairn]

these things

[elfin pulsar]

Thanks!

[white matrix]

everytime I hear saurophaganax someone always mentions 7shots, curious for what purpose lol

[chilly knot]

he is my pookie bear

[white matrix]

its like saurophaganax and him are related

[chilly knot]

he working on it

[white matrix]

oh

[sullen cairn]

attack of the 200+ measurements of december

[ancient crystal]

What is the current max weight estimate for tarbosaurus?

[white matrix]

5.5-5.8t iirc

[ancient crystal]

Thank you

[white matrix]

np

[sullen cairn]

current gdi is 5392kg

[elfin pulsar]

Oh what did lythronax prey on

[sullen cairn]

hadrosaurs and centrosaurines

[elfin pulsar]

Which ones(for the hadrosaurs)

[sullen cairn]

acristavus and diabloceratops are both from the same member

[elfin pulsar]

Ty appreciate it

[sullen cairn]

oh dear

slightly less oh dear but still very oh dear

[undone parcel]

so if dibble was smaller then Lythro, who would have been its "triceratops" to its "T.rex"

[sullen cairn]

dibble

the other centrosaurines are different members

[undone parcel]

i expected a Penta species honestly

[light osprey]

Mkay let’s just be “bold” and say they are probably contemporary at some point (the Wahweap fellas that is)

[sullen cairn]

then there's this thing

[undone parcel]

machairoceratops?

[sullen cairn]

some unnamed thing

[undone parcel]

all Wahweap centrosaurs were just Dibble variants

[sullen cairn]

more or less

[undone parcel]

have to keep reminding myself it isnt a Nasutoceratopsine because of the nose

[elfin pulsar]

I’m drawing something so I’ll just scale diablo to around this haha

[elfin pulsar]

Had no idea the gap was so big!

[west coral]

Add acristavus too

[bright veldt]

Keep in mind that the context of ceratopsids and tyrannosaurs was likely very different from the typical triceratops and t. rex

Mostly because most ceratopsid horns weren't very practical for defending themselves and tended to be significantly smaller than their predators.

[sullen cairn]

i would like to wish all everyone a very not all ceratopsids are post-judithian chasmosaurine size

actually is coahuilaceratops post-judithian cause that thing's tiny

[hallow spear]

@sullen cairn do me a favour?

[chilly knot]

No

[sullen cairn]

assuming my limbs will remain intact sure

[sullen cairn]

Kaiparowits is less scuffed at least thanks to utahceratops

[strange loom]

what were the differences through diet of pleistocene cougars and modern cougars ?

[white matrix]

Not much really both engaged in moderate durophagy, the pleistocene cougars, especially those from La Brea, showed more varied dietary behavior, with some individuals consuming tougher flesh. Interestingly though pleistocene cougars, utilized carcasses rather more than A. simus and A. dirus.

[strange loom]

huh I thought PL cougars hid kills in trees ?

[white matrix]

I mean its plausible but idk if we have any evidence of them doing it, but it would make sense due to competiton

[strange loom]

So how come cougars made it to modern times ? its interesting

[white matrix]

Well one of the reasons I have stated above, PL cougars demonstrated a higher degree of carcass utilization so they would use much out of available food sources when most of their competition demonstrated less of carcass utilization, this is one of the reasons cougar's we're succesful in general.

[strange loom]

But how does carcass utilization make you succesful?

[woeful falcon]

Hi

[strange loom]

yeah i dont get what tk meain

[woeful falcon]

I assume carcass utilization = able to eat more of the carcass than other animals

[strange loom]

but how does it make them more successs

[woeful falcon]

If you have more you can eat you have a better chance at surviving

[strange loom]

so it means if I eat more than you i'm more successful?

like i dont understand

[woeful falcon]

If you can eat more, you have a better chance of not dying than something that can eat less

[strange loom]

how does a cougar eat more than a bear and what is durophagy

[woeful falcon]

Google it

[strange loom]

like how a cougar eat more then a bear

[sage cave]

faster metabolism

[compact leaf]

they don’t mean eating more quantity, they mean eating a wider variety

[sage cave]

ohh oops lmao

[compact leaf]

oh not you I was talking about what tk said earlier lol

[white matrix]

That is what I said.

[sage cave]

doubles oops LOL

[sullen cairn]

if you're better at exploiting carcasses you're better at getting energy from them

[white matrix]

PL cougars niche chose to be generalist's.

[strange loom]

but aren't cougars generalists

[woeful falcon]

If you're stranded on an island and all there is to eat is fish, but you can't stomach fish, meanwhile you're with Johnny Fisherman who loves fish

Who has a better shot at surviving

[white matrix]

They are which is why I said in terms of diet there wasn't much difference.

[strange loom]

i mean survival is survival so we both survive?

[woeful falcon]

No you can't stomach fish. Johnny loves them. Johnny has a better chance

[jagged trellis]

one of you can't eat fish, you will explode if you do, the other can eat fish just fine, the one who can eat fish fine will do better

[sullen cairn]

be like johnny

[strange loom]

so let me get this straight pl cougars survived because they ate more than other predator ?

[jagged trellis]

they could( and if talking now can) eat a wider variety therefor had less chances of running out of viable food options

[strange loom]

like what in terms of variety google says durophagy or something?

[woeful falcon]

That's might be not the lone reason. It just was seemingly more equipped to survive whatever extinction befell others

[light osprey]

P. concolor is pretty versatile in its feeding habits to my understanding

[jagged trellis]

that is a google worthy word, but kinda, dunno if it was that in certain but i imagine was atleast enough to be here

[strange loom]

lone reason what other reason ?

[white matrix]

Climate, contential shifts, competition, etc.

[light osprey]

And maybe a comparative mesopredator? A lot the large Pleistocene Felids typically relied on the big megafauna of their environments

As opposed to our good friend Puma

[strange loom]

so could pleis cougars put prey in trees ?

[woeful falcon]

This should be apparent also but, cougars aren't the only one to endure to see today.

[strange loom]

whts a mesopredaotr

[light osprey]

Mid-sized predatory animal

[strange loom]

how would it compete with smildon and american lion

[sullen cairn]

niche partioning

[strange loom]

can u specify

[woeful falcon]

How does a grizzly compete with it today

They eat different things, occupy different ecological niches

Likewise with the felids of old. And also cougar ranges back in the day were vast iirc

[sullen cairn]

bro did not just say vast

[white matrix]

Yeah. cougars have the largest latitudinal range of any terrestrial mammal besides humans.

[light osprey]

Expansive and abundant range

[sullen cairn]

okay but nobody actually says "vast" in a sentence

[light osprey]

We do know

[white matrix]

hello mr chatgpt et al guy

[light osprey]

How was this even bait? We just discussed Pumas???

[sullen cairn]

paleochat gets trolled by somewhat insightful ecological discussion

[jagged trellis]

vast

[woeful falcon]

Ah my favorite bait: having people engage in conversation

[sullen cairn]

suckers

[light osprey]

Now that is bait

[stuck chasm]

Please move this conversation back on-topic. Our moderation team is handling the issue. Thank you!

[white matrix]

dinosaurs 😔

[sage cave]

cougars

[sullen cairn]

johnny

[light osprey]

Chubutinectes 😔

[jagged trellis]

which is just what they want sadly, but uhhh most squids are mesopredators yeah?

[west coral]

ferganasaurus

[light osprey]

Squid might be broad term, and most animals in that might in turn refer to a lot of small animals

[jagged trellis]

just squids( oh i see what you mean now, oh boi) but anyways just the generic body plan of em is the main question

[light osprey]

I would say most are not Mesopredatory then

[white matrix]

petition to make johnny an icon to paleo chat

[sullen cairn]

johnny is a real one fr

[light osprey]

I forgot the term for small macro-organisms that are carnivorous though

[white matrix]

https://tenor.com/view/goku-prowler-spiderverse-dragon-ball-gif-16710249899645766833

[frosty anvil]

I see people use vast all the time personally

[white matrix]

Vast is an odd word to me weirdly, I rarely use it.

[frosty anvil]

But now that people mention it, it is a bit of a weird word yea but i guess ive just seen it used so much that its not as awkward to me

[sullen cairn]

tk is objectively correct here

[jagged trellis]

vast amount of use for it eh

[light osprey]

Vastly underused imo

[white matrix]

based elasmosaur

[light osprey]

I found a dorsal length for it, seems pretty big even for something immature 🤔 to answer my own earlier question

[white matrix]

What’s the measurement

[light osprey]

1.4 metres

[elfin island]

pseudosuchian?

[white matrix]

@stuck chasm

[stuck chasm]

Thanks for the ping!