paleontology

[sullen cairn]

edmonto seems to have a thicker but shorter neck and the anterior postsacral region actually appears wider as well

i can see it being heavier sure but 2t really seems like a stretch

[tough parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/yeah-thats-what-i-said-jerry-seinfeld-30rock-thats-what-i-told-you-i-told-you-that-already-gif-19231773

[clever sable]

Here are some sarco skeletals

[clever sable]

Yeah I don't buy into 7 tonne lurdusaurus

[bright veldt]

Late Cretaceous Argentina

like idk y the giant titanosaurs and carcharodontosaurs lived in a desert of all places but they coped I guess

[sullen cairn]

kenton too was dry as hell

[clever sable]

Argentina has had a lot of big fellas, dreadnaughtus, Argentinosaurus, patagotitan and a couple others

[bright veldt]

Thats my thing, like, I get it wasn't hot there. But still, the largest land animals to exist living in what's basically a wasteland. What they eating?

[sullen cairn]

mfw titanosaurs are predominately in gondwana
mfw gondwanan fossils are predominately in argentina

[bright veldt]

Did they just bulk during the 1 month of rain/plenty then cope for the rest?

[light osprey]

Bet it would make good spectacle for a Documentary

[stiff osprey]

it wasn't like, a desert desert, there were giant conifer trees and rivers and allat

more of a particularly dry savannah

[light osprey]

I think a Namib sort of situation is plausible for some semi-arid dwelling fellows

[clever sable]

Could you possibly maybe add sarcosuchus to your erlhaz chart? And this guy

[sullen cairn]

le rio limay chart thing returns

[stiff osprey]

correction: Candeleros starts out as a desert desert, then gets more humid with time, and then huincul is very humid

[sullen cairn]

even then it wasn't all dunes

[light osprey]

It’s brown but there’s aeolian dunes. Doesn’t compute

[stiff osprey]

yeah the choice of soil color was unfortunate

[sullen cairn]

ah but you have seem to have missed that one brown is marginally lighter than the other

[light osprey]

Ah, now I see which one is supposed to be Alluvial

[sullen cairn]

and then there's the forgotten younger rio limay child, lisandro

[stiff osprey]

the question is, are giga and mozzy from the lower, middle or upper candeleros?

[light osprey]

Maybe all three

That sounds wrong now that I’ve typed it

[stiff osprey]

giga's so big its fossil spans the entire formation

[light osprey]

Do we have like a good modern analogue to all these alluvial aeolian environments

[sullen cairn]

as i've posited before, giganotosaurus actually spanned the entire early cretaceous because it is merely an allosaurus that grew up (hence its geologically younger age), and became so heavy it sunk to south america

[stiff osprey]

I know we have one (1) Giganotosaurus track from the Kokorkom Desert, which i guess suggests giga was at least around when Candeleros was aeolian

[clever sable]

Would a good size range for sarcosuchus be 9-10 meters?

[light osprey]

Meanwhile the Tarbosaurus that abandoned the Nemegt Formation to live in central China

[flat pond]

Who was it that said Indosuchus was 2t?

[sullen cairn]

me

don't worry i hate it just as much as everyone else

kryptops when distressingly large fish

[light osprey]

Mawsonia eats the Sarcosuchus, we’ve had it wrong the whole time

[light oxide]

[light osprey]

So, Chorrillo is kind of montane, snow fall possible yes?

Image on the left is excessive

[west coral]

Forgot a fella or two, poor afromimus and elrhazsaurus

[stiff osprey]

you could drop mawsonia onto any of these creatures (except maybe sarco) and they would literally die

[clever sable]

Poor nigersaurus, how did bro survive in that environment

[west coral]

Top 5 sauropods that get absolutely destroyed by everything in their environment

[clever sable]

Yeah, 10 meter 5,000 KG sarco survives everything

(2 different methods have gotten a 10 meter sarco and 10 meters isn't much above the 9.5 that 2019 paper gave so I wouldn't consider 10 meters anywhere near impossible)

[sullen cairn]

POV: niger, aptian-albian

[light osprey]

Only an AI could make something so brilliant

[clever sable]

Where afromimus 😦

[sullen cairn]

too lazy to throw together anything thats not already made for non-abelisaurids

[light osprey]

Just use Noasaurus right?

[stiff osprey]

limusaurus would be better

[elfin pulsar]

What ai is even used for this??

[light osprey]

Oh it’s an Elaphrosaurine

[sullen cairn]

bing

[clever sable]

What about this guy, he's erlhaz

[sullen cairn]

what the hell is that thing's face

[light osprey]

Tethysuchia moment

[sullen cairn]

new fish victim

[west coral]

yeah he is getting inhaled

literally

[stiff osprey]

that's why its relative in kem kem was 8 meters long, to not get vored by mawsonia

[sullen cairn]

day 8 of wondering how sereno estimated the total maxillary length 166% the length of the preserved tooth row

[clever sable]

Other fish

[sullen cairn]

3m scalebar
why

[clever sable]

Because idk

[clever sable]

Are you talking about stomatosuchus?

[stiff osprey]

none of those fish are elrhaz also

[sullen cairn]

kryptops needs to join the 30 foot long killing machine club for its own saftey

[stiff osprey]

nope, kem kem has a Stolokrosuchus relative with a 1.55 m skull

[clever sable]

Neo is erlhaz

[west coral]

problemo solvemo if anyone wants to use this

[stiff osprey]

kem kem, kem kem, and bahariya

[clever sable]

There are also a couple other small croc like guys

[clever sable]

Has wikipedia lied to me 😔

[stiff osprey]

probably not, fish taxa tend to live for like 20 million years in 20 countries

[sullen cairn]

me when random chart doesn't have the 0.234kg basal neopterapseuchian "andchapcrasposuchus"

[light osprey]

3m scale bar

[light osprey]

Shortest lived fish genus

[clever sable]

I can't wait to see the final, complete chart

[sullen cairn]

african abelisaurids fighting over who's the most pointless taxon

[light osprey]

If there’s a bone there’s a name 😎

[storm heron]

African Abelisaurs are always important.

[west coral]

Tell that to titanovenator

[clever sable]

Would you say that your erlhaz chart is now mostly complete?

[sullen cairn]

Nope

[storm heron]

Yes, it is important.

[sullen cairn]

At least for fish/pseudosuchians

[west coral]

afromimus and elrhazosaurus being completely forgotten about

[west coral]

anatosuchus and araripesuchus

[sullen cairn]

Do they have skeletals

[stiff osprey]

araripe does

[clever sable]

I think one does, there are also like 6 turtles that don't have skeletals

[sullen cairn]

Which is a great excuse to not include turtles

[west coral]

no scalebar for either

[stiff osprey]

i like how these guys have identical postcrania but araripe is reconstructed with the chadly mammalian stride and anato gets the virgin obese reptile silhouette

[sullen cairn]

I don’t really trust lythronax’s skeletals considering he scaled Chenanisaurus with a nonexistent rugops mandible but better than nothing

[clever sable]

There is also this weird shark thing but it has no skeletals or silhouettes that aren't prehistoric wildlife

Also I think this guy is erlhaz? I could be wrong though

[west coral]

I’m sure you can just do a head swap

[stiff osprey]

wow this is the first time i've seen tracy ford outright trace a scott hartman skeletal

[clever sable]

He's very low quality is all I know, lots of pixels

[stiff osprey]

guess he's not named tracy for nothing

[clever sable]

I'm gonna pay you 679955789 dollars to make a sarcosuchus skeletal using terminonaris head width for the size estimate fr fr

(Jk I don't care enough about sarco to spend money on it)

[sullen cairn]

Can’t you just like scale that yourself

[light osprey]

I wouldn’t put it pass u

[clever sable]

No because I suck at art and I have absolutely no clue how to make a skeletal

[sullen cairn]

If it’s a headswap it’s more of mashing images together and measuring pixels than art

[clever sable]

And I have no clue what would increase where so idk if it would just be the tail that gets longer or if the body and the tail get longer or just the tail

All I know is that using the HW of terminonaris you get 10.6 meters and 5,600 KG

[sullen cairn]

Is there a terminonaris skeletal

[light osprey]

I think so

Nope I was wrong

[clever sable]

No there is not

[light osprey]

The next best thing

[stiff osprey]

*the better thing. why the hell did brachiosuchus do this

it has longer arms in absolute terms than deinosuchus

[light osprey]

There is no snarky remark I can make, genuinely baffling

[sullen cairn]

Flabbergasted
Gobstopped, even

[west coral]

big head! BIG HEAD!

[clever sable]

Is that also a pholidosaur?

[stiff osprey]

dyrosaurid

[clever sable]

What pholidosaur other than terminonaris has the most postcranial material?

[stiff osprey]

Crocodilaemus

[clever sable]

Ok, you got a head width for that (yes I'm doing more sarcosuchus things)

[stiff osprey]

no

[light osprey]

Close enough (no)

[clever sable]

Using chalawan I got 9.8-11.1 meters for sarcosuchus (9.8 based on the 7 meter estimate for chalawan 11.1 based on the 8 meter estimate)

Random got 10.6 using the HW of terminonaris and 9 for using the HL of terminonaris

[white matrix]

Is HW head width?

[light osprey]

Yes it is

[clever sable]

Yes

[clever sable]

Do you know the head width of any pholidosaurs that aren't sarcosuchus, terminonaris or chalawan?

[light osprey]

Elosuchus

[stiff osprey]

I don't even know those 3

[clever sable]

Chalawan is 62.5 cm sarcosuchus is 87 cm and I don't remember terminonaris

[clever sable]

You see Batman, if you really look at it you can make sarcosuchus 11.1 meters

[stiff osprey]

If you use Crocodilaemus, you can make it 8

[white matrix]

The downsizer

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/ill-take-it-gif-11482798

Hear me out, there was a paper about this whole debacle ✋😳🤚

[clever sable]

If you use chalawans HW or terminonaris HW you get 10 meters and those are it's 2 closest relatives

[clever sable]

Both the major papers on the size of sarcosuchus use modern crocodilians for reason

[light osprey]

that’s crazy, wild even. Astonishing

[stiff osprey]

Yes, use the HW of Chalawan, an animal with no postcrania

[clever sable]

I'm most inclined to go with 9 Meters because every single estimate you can do for it will produce somewhere around 9 meters for the lower end

[light osprey]

How did it live if it was only a skull, checkmate

Wait where’s Chalawan from

[stiff osprey]

Thailand

[clever sable]

Terminonaris has postcranial material though

(Me desperately trying to bring sarcosuchus back to its pre 2019 size even though that's basically impossible m)

Also I found an old wikipedia size chart, I miss big sarco but this was just goofily large lol

[light osprey]

Accurate sized Deinosuchus 💯

[white matrix]

probably just ask metasuchus or something? Isnt he the croc expert

[clever sable]

Yes but he's super annoyed with me (reasonable) because I just rant and ramble about the size of sarcosuchus across multiple servers, also he said in his opinion the 10.13 meter 5,400 KG estimate estimate is the most reliable

[light osprey]

Damn Chalawan is Tithonian

[white matrix]

ngl seeing you rant about Sarco can get pretty annoying, I could see it

[clever sable]

Yeah, that's why I said it's reasonable for him to be annoyed

[light osprey]

Or is it Berresiasian?

[clever sable]

Also damn I wanna see this in person, I wish I knew where it was, it's probably in museum storage somewhere though

[light osprey]

Could’ve sworn there was a late surviving maastrichtian pholidosaur

[white matrix]

question would be what would be the most derived machairodont

[clever sable]

Uuhhhghhhhgfffh I loooooove sarcosuchus, I need it to appear in a documentary

[storm heron]

Gorillasuchus

[light osprey]

Should be Smilodon itself I think. Homotherium is slightly older

[clever sable]

https://youtu.be/g52qEf5mXq8?si=anY9vPgeV1yoOuVT when I was a kid this was basically the only piece of Paleo media we had recorded so I just re watched it like 4 times a week as a kid

[white matrix]

Blud should just be sarcosuchus at this point 💀

[clever sable]

Paul Sereno brainwashed me into loving sarcosuchus by having such an interesting documentary

I honestly don't care about how big sarcosuchus is, the only reason I want it to be bigger is so my favorite Paleo documentary can still be semi accurate in a way

[hallow spear]

I hate all crocs

[white matrix]

Which? Fatalis or Populator

[clever sable]

You have no soul

[light osprey]

Uhhhh

[white matrix]

Crocs are cool but you’re making me loose interest in Sarco.

[clever sable]

Yeah, I definitely talk about it way too much

[light osprey]

Chalawan is new cool kid

I decided this just now, cause it lives with a Mamenchisaurid

[white matrix]

I was messing with you btw

[clever sable]

Chalawan is Awesome, it definitely deserves more attention than it gets, it's cool and unique

[white matrix]

Turkana Grits is interesting, I need to look up how it was during the Pleistocene

[hallow spear]

I know

[clever sable]

(sadly chalawan is not featured here)

[light osprey]

Artbyjrc is kind of underrated I feel

[clever sable]

Yeah

[white matrix]

julio lacerda with their Pleistocene arts, is another underrated artist

[light osprey]

Can’t forgive em after he twicked me with his Plotosaurus. Real thing kind of goofy looking

[white matrix]

Orribec also has some banger Cenozoic art.

[light osprey]

Rare non dinosaur maastrichtian apex

[clever sable]

Yeah

[wary heath]

That looks as close to a photo as a smilodon will get

[sullen cairn]

kryptops finally has purpose in life

[white matrix]

Awe bebe croco

[ruby patio]

I'm still confuzzled by how they managed to make Rugops 8 meters

[sullen cairn]

math

[white matrix]

Big sausage, small head

[chilly knot]

Then just use it bru

[chilly knot]

Ur mid pookiewookiepatootie bear

[hallow spear]

😭

[clever sable]

He can only eat that thing and baby nigersaurus and probably some baby hadrosaurs but hadrosaurs didn't abandon their kids like sauropods

[white matrix]

L take

[boreal ore]

Wow that hurts dude

[tranquil quartz]

Fr temnospondyls on top

[gaunt raven]

Worst take I’ve heard in awhile 😬

[white matrix]

anyone got a titanosaur size chart

[west coral]

Titanosauria in general, or just the big fellas?

[light osprey]

All of them of course. Every single one

[clever sable]

So uh, are you working on a complete chart of the erlhaz formation?

[sullen cairn]

not sure yet

namely cause i'm yet to figure out if i should base afromimus on the angeac ornithomimosaur or incin's delta noasaur thing

[west coral]

just make it some sort of elaphrosaurine

[clever sable]

Doesn't really matter tbh

Just do whatever you think would be better

[white matrix]

elrhaz* 🤓

[light osprey]

Can’t believe you spelled it wrong (I do it all the time)

[clever sable]

I called fadeno "fandeno" for like 6 months because I accidentally misread his DA name lmao

[light osprey]

Crimes against wading spinosaurus for sure

[clever sable]

Tbf spinosaurus probably was doing some wading, that's just not all it was doing and probably not how it primarily hunted

[white matrix]

spinosaurus ecology talks: 😐
other taxa ecology talks: 🙂

[light osprey]

I’m feeling spicy today what can I say

[white matrix]

whats on your mind

[wispy prism]

hello

[west coral]

something about either a tooth taxa or some fragmentary giant

[west coral]

or a giant tooth taxa

[light osprey]

All good talking points

[clever sable]

Sarcosuchus ecology talks

(Jk)

[light osprey]

How about…. 🤔speculative African Maastrichtian faunal composition

[west coral]

sure that sounds like an interesting and not at all horribly disastrous topic

[white matrix]

Apparently certain material previously identified as S. populator in the Andea regions has me questioning, afaik there is a possibility that they could belong to the S. fatalis but was this confirmed?

wait nvm it is attributed to S. fatalis, so i guess it would challenge the belief that S. fatalis and S. populator had allopatric distributions during Lujanian

heck reevaluation of materials associated with smilodontins in regions beyond the Andes mountains is warranted imo

[plain stirrup]

What were the “apex herbivores” of the permian. similar to like trike, stego, anky, etc.

[compact leaf]

pareiasaurs like scutosaurus and large dicynodonts

there’s other things thrown in there too like cotylorhynchus but those are the first two that come to mind

[light osprey]

Cuttlefish what do you know about Maastrichtian Africa

Any ghost lineages

[compact leaf]

this is bait if ever I’ve seen it

that being said there’s a lot we don’t know about maastrichtian africa so some ghost lineages are definitely possible

I will not elaborate further

[west coral]

I mean, there is ajnabia being the only African hadrosaur

[compact leaf]

africa has some real weird stuff popping up in the earlier cretaceous too, there’s a turiasaur that comes out of absolute nowhere in cabao, it’s a big continent and there’s a lot of the picture we don’t have

[light osprey]

I found a formation with att. Velociraptorine material. Certified Gondwana moment 💯

[compact leaf]

where do we actually have late cretaceous african stuff?

the middle east too for that matter, latest stuff I know about there is aptian ish

[light osprey]

Bro forgot about Morocco. There’s plenty of other stuff though

Definitely Morocco and Lapurr is most of it though

Okay I dig;

Dakhla Formation, mostly turtles, a Halisaurus, and indet. Somphospondylii

Nigeremys from an unnamed marine sediment in Niger

Rhabdognathus in Mali

A Salmoniforme, Cimolichthys from Niger

The Dukamaje Formation, an assemblage of Testudine and Mosasaur taxon, along with possible Crocodylian material and Sokotosuchus

theres more…

[west coral]

All I know about are a snake, Arambourgiania, Mimodactylus, a titanosaur, an abelisaurid, and

[west coral]

There’s also a lot of maastrichian nigerien dyrosaurs

[light osprey]

Mocuio, a marine assemblage, including some curious referred Protostega material and an Aponyctosaurian Epapatelo

[compact leaf]

oh joy indeterminate somphospondyls my favorite, is that african or middle eastern?

[light osprey]

Africa

[compact leaf]

I hate somphospondyls because their taxonomy is so shaky for most of them, on the basal end they get shifted in and out of brachiosauridae all the time but the more derived you get it starts being hard to tell if they're titanosaurs, there's like a few in the middle that don't cause any grief but the rest are terrible

[west coral]

In Beceten has some interesting fellas such as Madstoia aff. madagascarensis

[light osprey]

Muwaddar Chalk Marl (Jordan) Gigantypus holotype, indet. Polycotylidae and Pterosauria, possibly Pteranodontian

[west coral]

Mosasaurus and Tylosaurus aswell wow

[light osprey]

Mosasaurus? In a Maastrichtian marine deposit? Imagine my surprise

[west coral]

Mosasaurus and Tylosaurus though

[light osprey]

T. bernardi they coexist ye

[west coral]

this might sound stupid, but I have never seen a marine deposit with both Tylosaurus and Mosassurus

[light osprey]

It happens sometimes. Certainly rare with M. hoffmanni though

Oh this is fun, Wadi Milk has Dromaeosaurid, Velociraptorine, Somphospondylii, Ornithopoda, and Hypsilophodontid material

Rhabdodontid most likely somewhere in that mix, curious what sort of other Ornithopods would be in African though

[west coral]

Arabia™️, the perfect cross between all landmasses

[compact leaf]

I'm pretty sure it was israel that had a brachiosaurid from earlier in the cretaceous

[west coral]

Does it?

[compact leaf]

let me find it, it's somewhere around there

[light osprey]

Doesn’t sound to wacky, I think early-“middle” Cretaceous has a few certain Brachiosaurids

[bright veldt]

Cedarosaurus

[light osprey]

damn I can’t find any other Gondwanan Ornithischia besides Rhabdodontid and Elasmarians.

[compact leaf]

ok so it's not israel it's lebanon but yeah it's a definitive brachiosaurid, and yeah there's a lot of them running around in the early-mid cretaceous

europe and north america both have several with the youngest one being in NA, africa has a few, the one in lebanon, and then japan and china both have one

[light osprey]

Doesn’t sound ghostly to me. Now, for latest Cretaceous

[compact leaf]

they just tend to pop up in weird places with big gaps between them but there's a lot in the early to mid cretaceous

there's a few places where they could have gone longer (which would make a ghost lineage) but we don't really have later rock from those places so we don't know any of what lives there

and I already mentioned it but several somphospondyls move in and out of brachiosauridae

[light osprey]

Interesting interesting. What sort of Somphospondylii would you expect to persist into the latter stages of the Cretaceous

[compact leaf]

I mean it's a strange question to answer because it depends on where and it depends on which somphospondyls we're talking about, they're a messy and highly variable group

[light osprey]

You can’t find any stable, African clades within it?

[compact leaf]

I actually don't know of any described from africa

[west coral]

Maybe something within basal somphospondyli?

[west coral]

Australodocus and archbishop

[compact leaf]

the archbishop is a brachiosaurid

australodocus is a somphospondyl right now but that could change too, that's one of the ones on shaky ground

[light osprey]

time to google

[compact leaf]

I wouldn't use that chart for the family tree either because there's a lot of relationships there that have changed, several that have been sank, and a few that were never even considered somphospondyls

[light osprey]

The depiction I see for Australodocus seems par for the course of what I expected

[west coral]

Wait, I just found the perfect analogy for an African somphospondyl

Angolatitan adamastor

[light osprey]

It’s Coniacian too, good find

[west coral]

Pretty alright sized too

[glad stump]

Does anyone know the difference between sabre tooth cats and big cats

[white matrix]

Assuming when you mean 'sabre toothcat' Imma guess you mean smilodontini, in that case generally smilodontini skulls were relatively smaller compared to its body size when compared to big cats, big cats have larger skulls compared to their body size (ie lions and tigers)

keep in mind sabre tooth cat is a colloquial term

[tough parcel]

What they said wasn’t wrong, saber tooth cat is fine

[chilly knot]

Big cats are pantherines, Sabre tooths machairodonts, ez

[white matrix]

I mean they could have also been talking about either homotherini, machairodontini, or smilodontini

which all technically have 'sabers'

[tough parcel]

Jesus Christ, I’m…actually kinda mentally damaged, I thought you were correcting them in the first part of the sentence

[light osprey]

Duh Falcon 🙄

[glad stump]

yeah smilodon family why did smilodon and his other buddies have long sabers what was the reason why couldnt they have smaller teeth like big cats

[light osprey]

Some Maichairodonts did have kind of normal canines.

[bright veldt]

It was more a particular adaptation for how they killed. Modern cats tend to suffocate their prey, with some variation. Sabertooths bled them to death via the trauma of the bite.

[sullen cairn]

They liked it… they were good at it…

[bright veldt]

Although yeah even then, many sabertooths had more traditional teeth.

[glad stump]

i read there teeth was fragile is this true? also i read they cut blood from entering the brain

[bright veldt]

They were at risk of breaking in side-to-side movements, but they were very powerful in a general sense. We have skulls of smilodon that have died from getting bitten straight through the head by other smilodon.

[light osprey]

That one’s gotta hurt

[sullen cairn]

They also have the giant forearms for making things not move even if the teeth are weak to lateral pressures

[bright veldt]

Both big cats and sabertooth largely kill by a bite to the neck, largely to suffocate them in the former. But the ones with giant saberteeth? Instead of aiming to suffocate, its to rip apart all the important blood vessels that are in the neck, which would bleed the prey to death within minutes. A quicker, albeit much messier death.

[glad stump]

so does this make them distinct in a way? im confused a little bit here smaller body size skull?

[light osprey]

Aha, Mocuio has Hadrosauroids, I’ve discovered a Maastrichtian African Ornithopod 💯💯💯

[bright veldt]

Sabertooths came in many shapes and sizes. Smilodon was the biggest and had the biggest sabers, but there were plenty others.

[glad stump]

can someone simplify 🙏

[bright veldt]

For an example, Homotherium was another sabertooth. It lived alongside Smilodon in North America, but also lived in Europe and Asia. It's sabers were much smaller, to the point where they still fit in the mouth.

[light osprey]

Like, a smaller skull in proportion to its body I think

[bright veldt]

Although, it had the unique attribute that its canines were serrated, and on both sides too. It could rip and tear quite well.

[sullen cairn]

There’s also yoshi which I mention for no reason other than the name’s funny

[glad stump]

@bright veldt sir

[glad stump]

I’m no native speaker 😅

[glad stump]

Smaller skull = weaker bite?

[bright veldt]

Yoshi was very lightly built for a sabertooth. It lived more on the fast lane.

[glad stump]

YOOOOOOO MORE SMILODON STUFF I LOVE SMILODON POT MOD so 2 big smilodon live toegather????

Was the niche the same or they group up?

[bright veldt]

I clicked on it before finished reading god dangit

[light osprey]

What is it supposed to be

[white matrix]

Probably but it isn’t conclusive to say they 100% lived together and I think they’d see each other as competition over pack socializing

[light osprey]

Dear oh my, what happened there lol

[glad stump]

So smilodon fatali was bigger or smilodon populator and what did they hunt

[compact leaf]

the diplodocus in that scene was almost just as bad

[light osprey]

Certainly very strange.

[tough parcel]

It’s the same animation company as JW (ILM) thus they reused the BaBR Allosaurus design

[light osprey]

Never noticed how cool this shot was

[tough parcel]

They had this design and just kinda took a bat to it

[compact leaf]

the arthropleura model was nice at least, honestly the best scene in the whole documentary

[light osprey]

The Nasutoceratops has a very nice sound

[compact leaf]

also basically the only scene of a prehistoric animal that wasn’t a predator prey interaction

[white matrix]

The smilodon face anatomy was just odd to see and rather annoying

and considering this is gracilis (?) it most likely didn’t have the hunch like populator and fatalis did

[tough parcel]

Primeval had the best gorgonopsid rep, no cap 🙏🙏

[light osprey]

At least we’ll always have these

[compact leaf]

I mean they tried to do what the entire walking with series did in 8 episodes, if they had stayed entirely in the past that may have worked but they decided to make the majority of every episode reused bbc footage from various other nature documentaries

[white matrix]

Does anyone know how accurate the titanis was? Albeit I have my doubts the accuracy level was low

[tough parcel]

Low

[light osprey]

I’ve heard that’s how the episodes were formatted, but I couldn’t believe it

[tough parcel]

Not to like…toot my own horn here…but here’s a good Titanis

[white matrix]

Speaking positively I did like the bird esque hadrosaur feeding scene though

[light osprey]

proceeds to toot one’s horn

[tough parcel]

What are you gonna DO about it

[compact leaf]

the bird esque hadrosaur feeding was cool, but I got sucked out of it when they reused the same exact scene for edmontosaurus and just slapped a crest on the maisaura model, that was literally the only change to the scene

[light osprey]

Erm, nothing

[white matrix]

We need that soon, although agate bloodlines, by Max is a potential future Cenozoic documentary

[tough parcel]

Ty ty I try my best

[compact leaf]

I had heard rumors about it beforehand but I didn’t want to believe it either, my disappointment is immeasurable

[white matrix]

Yeah that was upsetting

[light osprey]

Might just watch Our Planet. Basically a Pleistocene documentary without the megafauna

[compact leaf]

they hyped up the mammoths too and the entire scene was maybe five minutes and really anticlimactic

[white matrix]

Mods here rip this fun talk

[compact leaf]

let me go into extreme detail about why the diplodocus is wrong so the mods don’t bonk me for being off topic

[meager sedge]

Please keep this channel on-topic to paleo discussions. Discussing movie media or how it should be changed if it is not relevant to paleo discussion is not considered on-topic as per the pinned message! Thankyou.

For example, you may discuss how a dinosaur is featured in a certain movie in regards to its make, behaviours, vocalizations, etc. but you may not discuss the movie’s actors, plots, or anything not directly related to the dinosaur. The movie itself should be of very little focus in the discussion.

[white matrix]

We were just talking about the inaccuracies mostly, relevant to paleontology

[light osprey]

More like anti-climatic (cause it’s cold or something)

[compact leaf]

the plateosaurus was nice, it kind of defied physics a few times while walking but the model was nice

[meager sedge]

No worries! It was mostly just a reminder for this channel as you're discussing paleo-media

[compact leaf]

arthropleura and plateosaurus were some of the nicest models, scutosaurus and the cambrian stuff were also good

[white matrix]

Interested in cuttlefish to give a good informative long detail about why loops diplo is odd, got me hyped for some reason

[stiff osprey]

Paleozoic was great, i elected not to watch the mesozoic parts and have yet to get to the cenozoic

[compact leaf]

let me return to my pc so I can type faster lol

[tough parcel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/831073252599529523/1166767714069643355/IMG_4888.jpg

[light osprey]

Paragraph incoming

[white matrix]

Cenozoic was pretty mid ngl

[light osprey]

Dear oh my, what could’ve caused that design

[compact leaf]

falcon stole my thunder ;-;

[stiff osprey]

you go girl!!! Straight to 1915!!

[tough parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/shannon-sharpe-suit-meme-man-wearing-suit-meme-suit-slideshow-sparkles-and-champagne-gif-26378137

[light osprey]

Retrosaurus that everyone’s been asking for

[stiff osprey]

i enjoy that the JW Allosaurus gets smacked full force by a Diplodocus tail and just goes huhhh??

[tough parcel]

I could beat any dinosaur in an arm wrestle

[light osprey]

Nuh uh

[tough parcel]

It’s like half an arm, it can do nothing

[compact leaf]

they basically broke the shoulders so that it could be more horizontal and then had it bending its neck all over the place (in several not very possible ways) anyway, the tail was weirdly droopy and I didn't get to see it melt an allosaurus, they gave it the weird JW old man apatosaurus head, it's just weirdly shaped in general tbh especially from the front

[white matrix]

Why does every doc think smilodon was the reason phosphoracids went extinct

[stiff osprey]

The smilodon is sure to win due to its mammalian cunning

[white matrix]

(real and true although I can’t get over how ugly the face model is)

[compact leaf]

the mammalian cunning gave them an edge to be more successful than the other groups (outnumbered by every vertebrate group)

[light osprey]

Idk, I think I saw a Pleistocene formation with Phorusrhacinae material once.

[stiff osprey]

You see, the mammals are only acting on 10% of their power, if they unleashed the full might of the mammalian cunning all other vertebrates would be supplanted

[compact leaf]

just another secret big paleo doesn't want us to know

[light osprey]

Mammals do be looking cool though ngl

[compact leaf]

the alamosaurus was also not great but it wasn't quite as egregious as the diplodocus

[light osprey]

Mods can’t take ma photos down cause they all date to the Pleistocene

[tough parcel]

“Look cool”

I do not see one tyrannosaur-lookalike there, your argument is immediately faulty

[sullen cairn]

counterpoint:

[tough parcel]

Bad

[white matrix]

ProntoSharl pull up Megistotherium:

[light osprey]

Big cheeks = Tyrannosaurus. I win

[white matrix]

@white matrix this is the upcoming doc I mentioned to you earlier btw

[sullen cairn]

the tyrannosaurus

[light osprey]

These look about right

[white matrix]

Hyainailourines are funky dudes we need more representation of them in media

[light osprey]

Maybe one day when John Favreau gets bored of Dinosaurs

[white matrix]

I need a prehistoric planet esque Cenozoic documentary focused on the late Pleistocene

[scenic flame]

It has scales

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/falcon-sam-wilson-outta-line-but-gif-22091662

[scenic flame]

Which is sadly something you don't normally get, looking at you mammal skinned jw models

[light osprey]

The dreadful Dreadnoughtus comes to mind

[sullen cairn]

albertavenator has been made less distressingly large with the help of more scale bars

[storm heron]

What a downsize,

Though that skull is scary still.

Albertavenator has a Tyrannosaurid skull (at least dorsally)

[sullen cairn]

yeah i checked the paper and the frontals seem legitmately more robust than stenonychosaurus
and the larger teeth can still be scaled to ~4m which is odd

although the teeth aren't directly referred as afaik its just other horseshoe troodontid material (so presumably albertavenator)

[storm heron]

Woah, the larger teeth can possibly scale to a ~4m Troodontid?

[sullen cairn]

at least scaling with larramendi's estimates yeah

for reference largest horseshoe canyon tooth is 12.1mmx7mm

it ends up at something stupid like 4.5m TL scaling with his pectinodon estimate so i'm kinda suspicious

though iirc troodon teeth are pretty bad for scaling (but that might have just been for scaling by denticle count or whatever)

checked troodontids have abnormally large denticles but i don't think that'd apply to crown height/length scaling (but its still tooth scaling)

that said 80% the size of the largest alaskan tooth ain't too shabby

[storm heron]

Ah, I see.

[sullen cairn]

(80% the largest Alaskan tooth is still 4.5m with larramendi’s scaling too)

So either thing is actually big or it has large teeth with a robust skull
Both of which are pretty neat

Or larramendi can’t scale troodontids lmao

[sullen cairn]

oh great there's a ~13mm x ~8.5mm ojo alamo tooth

[round needle]

Allosaurus is still my favourite dinosaur everything about it

[sullen cairn]

real

[round needle]

Allosaurus is a jack of all trades type of dinosaur it could fit every niche in its ecosystem

[sullen cairn]

which makes it funny how allosaurus/allosaurids are the most common morrison theropods but are less widespread globally then ceratosaurids/megalosaurines

y'know for being one of the go-to generic theropods allosaurus has a really nice looking skull

[storm heron]

Yep, very interested in this particular Troodontid.

Lets project a hypothetical ~4m Albertavenator individual because individual variation + large Troodontid with a robust skull is cool.

[sullen cairn]

i would like to wish all larramendi a very oh god please i hope your troodontid teeth scaling is off because what the hell is this

[stiff osprey]

what happens if you assume the giant alaskan teeth belong to latenivenatrix sized individuals

do they all shrink by like 50%

[sullen cairn]

how big are latens teeth

[stiff osprey]

i don't think it has any, i mean making the teeth the same size as the skeletal material

or assuming laten has big teeth proportionally

[sullen cairn]

largest laten's 3.5m right

[stiff osprey]

yes

[sullen cairn]

plus that two medicine thing

[stiff osprey]

I could never tell if that egg mountain specimen was a femur or a tibia

tibia would be a large troodontid and femur would be a giant

[sullen cairn]

i wonder how those prince creek braincases stack up against the teeth estimate

giving rainbows and unicorns quarry a run for its money i see

lmao

The specimen falls within the size range of Troodon formosus specimens known from much more southern deposits in Alberta and elsewhere, based upon measurements of the parietal bone (Currie, 1985; Currie and Zhao, 1993).

[storm heron]

Speaking of Troodontids, are there any particular Troodontids that were possibly omnivorous or is this a common trait for them all ?

[round needle]

I know bro

[sullen cairn]

Probably reasonably widespread

We have possible evidence of omnivory as far as between some of upper Cretaceous NA taxa and lower Cretaceous asian taxa

[storm heron]

Oh interesting.

[white matrix]

Anyways yeah LOOP Rex is fine except for the pronated wrist

Everyone is entitled to their opinions

Lol

[bitter oasis]

Lets stop this discussion here before it gets too heated. If we cannot be civil and respectful to one another, mutes will be handed out.

[white matrix]

So if LOOP fixed Rex's broken wrist it'd definitely be one of the better documentary Rex designs

[glad stump]

can gumzilla get muted cause there generally annoying

[bitter oasis]

If you want to report/ are concerned of users in this discord please send us a direct message in @feral crane

Let's move on from the discussion please.

[white matrix]

Bruh ain't no way I'm getting reported for talking paleontology in the paleontology chat 💀

[heady thunder]

I love its smooth head.

[white matrix]

Trolls running wild recently.

[heady thunder]

Do you know where is it shown pronated tho? Cos all the clips Ive seen of it theyre not pronated, theyre like in an angle close to the body

[white matrix]

Thats just a bad angle

Maybe, but it's pretty damning

[heady thunder]

Must be the angle or just this shot, cos in the mating clip and the trike hunt they werent pronated.

[white matrix]

God I hope it's just a bad angle

Cause like I said it's a good Rex design otherwise

[heady thunder]

I believe it is just this shot angle being goofy, cos in the prior episodes you could slow all the rex runtime down and watch the hands, they never go pronated, even on the adolescents.

[tough parcel]

Sure, you can like the rex aesthetically, that’s your opinion

But it is objectively a bad rex

[white matrix]

I mean aside form the lack of hornlets it's a fine Rex

[stiff osprey]

Head is generally off, the nasals are too wide and there's way too many teeth

But compared to other documentaries it's a meh rex

[white matrix]

I always forget how important teeth count is

whats funny was how the smilodon (s) one shotted the titanis

[heady thunder]

The bozo should have payed attention

[white matrix]

I mean a big cat one-shotting a bird isn't the craziest thing I've ever heard

Even one as seemingly stocky as Titanis

[heady thunder]

A bird which didnt even notice the cat designed to grapple things until it was on it

[white matrix]

Yeah this all sounds like it checks out to me

S. gracilis moment

I can see it

[stiff osprey]

It'd be believable if they were Xenosmilus. But S.gracilis is just silly

[white matrix]

^

[heady thunder]

Ive seen leopards do insane things

[stiff osprey]

That's like a cougar one shotting a unaware grizzly bear

[white matrix]

Also is the Smilo in LOOP specified to be S. gracilis?

[stiff osprey]

No, but S.gracilis was the one that coexisted with terror birds. Smilodon got big after their extinction

[white matrix]

I'm sorry when was the last time you saw a Grizzly with hollow bones?

[stiff osprey]

They all get hollow bones after I eat their bone marrow

[white matrix]

I'm not saying Smilo would clap Tanis 100% of the time but the Smilo got the jump on the bird, and that was enough to take it out, just as any cat does

[stiff osprey]

You don't see cats taking down other predators five times their size, because hunting another predator is a very different matter from hunting an antelope

Leopards hunt eland, which are bigger than a lion, but leopards don't hunt lions

[white matrix]

..... Lions

Lions hunt things even bigger than Titanis

[heady thunder]

How heavy is titanis again?

[stiff osprey]

And? S.gracilis isn't a lion, it's barely the size of a leopard

[white matrix]

Also after looking up the clip, it's two Smilos vs one Tanis

[stiff osprey]

About 250 kg

[white matrix]

Two Smilos catching a Tanis off guard is a relatively easy kill for the cats

[stiff osprey]

That's another thing wrong, because gracilis was probably not a pack hunter

[heady thunder]

Big boi, but its doable, especially with how different titanis is built compared to mammalian predators.
They could have shown more of a fight, but then that comes with animation work which probably was not needed to get the point they wanted to across.

[jagged trellis]

i mean feathers CAN help with crushing and grappling ordeals, but anyways the smallest possible one that we know of smilos fam being shown doing that is.......off, main problem id wager with docs when doing this is they don't show the amount of times smth happens, just once and then on to the next ordeal, like showing a dragonfly losing 1 hunt and then ignoring how they succeed 97%+ of the time, or vice versa showing a tiger succeed a hunt ignoring they fail around 85% of em

[white matrix]

A lot of cats will travel in pairs during a period in their lives, they were probably brothers who were temporarily living with each other

That's something you'd see in lions commonly, I dont think it was that widespread in other bigcats, cheetahs will also form coalitions.

Either way nothing wrong with a healthy dose of speculation based on living relatives

[stiff osprey]

Right, assuming they did sometimes move in pairs, when have you seen a leopard or cheetah pair stalk and pounce male lions?

[heady thunder]

Thats cos its unnecesary animation, like LOOP showed modern day frogs missing their hunts on dragonflies like 99% of the time and getting it once, but theyre not gonna animate 10 different smilo titanis encounters just for one where the cats kill the bird, especially in a show where its just supposed to be highlights of certain periods and animals with the average screen time per species being like 5 mins.

[white matrix]

It probably happens occasionally we just don't have any recording of it

[compact leaf]

something we’re ignoring here is that the titans actually kicks the smilodon once it’s down and it just doesn’t do anything

[white matrix]

Cheetahs pairs most certainly would not try and go up against a male lion, thats pretty much a death sentence.

[white matrix]

Yeah but that's Cheetahs who are arguably the most fragile big cats

[heady thunder]

This is more like 2 male leopards vs one lightly built lioness

[stiff osprey]

I will say the way the scene is shown in LOOP is fine. The Smilodon are big enough that they could def take a Titanis down

But the cats are way smaller compared to the bird irl

[stiff osprey]

250 kg is bigger than most male lions

[white matrix]

It may have been a young Titanis as well

[white matrix]

Leopards pairs also have no need to go after a male lion unless the male lion is HEAVILY injured

[heady thunder]

It was the young male titanis, the guy was probably a bozo with the awareness of a rock

[white matrix]

Also the mammoth hunt scene was a bit of a stretch too? Like even Lions can struggle a bit to bring down a baby elephant

[heady thunder]

Werent they cave lions which are bigger

[white matrix]

still that kill was unrealistically fast imo

[compact leaf]

yeah but the herd makes no effort to help and it’s only one cave lion that does it

[stiff osprey]

Haven't seen the mammoth scene so it depends on the size of the mammoth ig

[white matrix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0ZiXukV7oA

[heady thunder]

Unrelated, but the lion model is extremely huggable

[white matrix]

Oh are there any Mosa scenes in LOOP? And if so does it Ocean Man something?

[heady thunder]

I think there was only a pliosaur, at least for the first half, havent seen the second.

[white matrix]

Pliosaurus works for Ocean Manning, too

[compact leaf]

yeah it was a pliosaur that shows up for like 30 seconds

[jagged trellis]

then why not explain it, you don't just show something out of the ordinary and write it off as a normal occurrence with 0 explanation while also having the scene itself be very much so odd while said scene is odd on the narrating again( noticing a pattern here)

[white matrix]

wait in the mammoth hunt scene is it a baby or a young male?

[stiff osprey]

hm. I think one lion being able to knock it over is not impossible?

But the idea that seeing a few more lions come in would scare off the entire mammoth herd from coming to its defense is dumb

[white matrix]

Fair enough imo paleozoic was probably the best, cenozoic had mixed feelings, mesozoic was pretty mid in general.

[heady thunder]

Cos it wasnt the purpose of the scene, its point was saying that animals compete with their own species and other ones, its not showing how Titanis vs Smilodon went most of the time, they dont even say its Titanis, its just called a terror bird, the smilodon isnt also said which species it is.

Ok Kangaroo I wont discuss the docs direction

[stiff osprey]

Hm, considering they do put Erythrosuchids and Lystrosaurus together (they lived 2 million years apart), it's possible the Smilodon is meant to be fatalis, even though fatalis and Titanis lived 1.5 my apart

[bitter oasis]

Hello! while i understand why it was posted due to the conversation please do not post any content where animals or people are getting injured, thank you!

[white matrix]

that could be a reasonable theory as well

[heady thunder]

That lystrosaurus baby murder was very sad, those guys got mauled

[jagged trellis]

( it could literally only be a gracilis for the smilodon unless they actively go against the idea of being you know....accurate, and there are far better ways of showing competition than a 4 second ambush and claiming the environment is at the mercy of the bird)

[white matrix]

Wish i could randomly send my spoon plushie here lol its extremly cute

[heady thunder]

#backer-chat

[white matrix]

found something

[stiff osprey]

Oh rip that theory then

[white matrix]

Ye lol

[heady thunder]

Sooo, this means the smilo in episode 1 is a different species?

[white matrix]

I'm guessing because this is what it says in full

[heady thunder]

I gotta watch the rest

[white matrix]

so they have S. fatalis and S. gracilis (?), I doubt they would do populator.

[heady thunder]

Maybe its fatalis and populator

[snow python]

What was liopleurodon max size, 7m?

[west coral]

8m iirc

[light osprey]

I’ve heard even smaller for L. ferox

[bright veldt]

6 meters

[steady rock]

how much did yutyrannus weigh?

[bright veldt]

1.4 tons

[light osprey]

Whoops, I think I accidentally called u lol

[bright veldt]

all good

[white matrix]

Hey Chonk

[light osprey]

What’s up

[white matrix]

whats your favourite machairodontinae?

[light osprey]

Tough question for an indecisive fella 🤔

[white matrix]

how bout any machairodont from anywhere during the pleistocene

[light osprey]

Middle-late maybe takes some bias for me

[white matrix]

list em 👏

[light osprey]

Metailurus and Smilodon may take the cake for favorites. Opinion subject to change

[chilly knot]

Amphimachairodus

[tranquil quartz]

Taowu >>

[wispy prism]

whats everyones favorite carnivorious therapod?

[tranquil quartz]

Spectrovenator

[frosty anvil]

Acrocanthosaurus

[steady rock]

seagull

[frosty anvil]

Concavenator a close second

[wispy prism]

terestrial

[tranquil quartz]

Is altispinax up there as well?

[steady rock]

celiophysis

[wispy prism]

honestly my knowledge of dinosaur names isnt very good so i dont know most

[bright veldt]

take a wild guess

[tranquil quartz]

Umm Rugops?? 🤓🤓

[frosty anvil]

I've never heard of Altispinax until now, just looked it up
I love that guy already

[bright veldt]

We have jack of it tbf.

[tranquil quartz]

You’ve never heard of it?
Well tbf it’s completely left out of the carch wiki page for some reason.

[frosty anvil]

Theres a lot of dinosaurs i dont know about tbh im only well versed in the popular genuses and the not so popular but well known among dinosaur enthusiast genuses

[tranquil quartz]

Scan what are your 5 favourite Abelisaurids?

[frosty anvil]

The most "obscure" genus that i know of is probably... idk maip or thanos or something like that
I know a lot of dinosaurs but theres defo a lot i havent heard of either

[elfin pulsar]

Majunga or guanlong

Really like both of them

[sullen cairn]

wow what a neat animal, i'm sure its been described

[white matrix]

was just going to question "wheres table"

[light osprey]

I’m still utterly baffled how anyone can pick favorite theropod

[west coral]

afromimus?

[light osprey]

Dakotaraptor would that count as a favorite?

[white matrix]

yes no

[light osprey]

I read yes, I’m going with it

[sullen cairn]

Sidormimus

[white matrix]

is that the one elrhaz noasaurid

[sullen cairn]

the digging one

[white matrix]

mm Machairodous

[tawdry tinsel]

fair point

[white matrix]

@light osprey since you like julio lacerda

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/american-psycho-impressive-very-nice-coping-patrick-bateman-gif-26518058

[clever sable]

I can't wait to see the full chart if you are gonna make one

[ruby patio]

Is that elhraz

[sullen cairn]

ye

[west coral]

perfect vacation spot

[stiff osprey]

paradisiacal beaches, clear waters, 2000 different little creatures

[west coral]

• the largest animal that you have to worry about is practically a large, toothed seagull

[steady rock]

you need more herbis

try stegogorous

stegorous

[rose thorn]

Quite simple. Pick the neatest looking animal

[west coral]

Stegouros is from chile, this is niger

[steady rock]

oh, i thought he was making a mini roster with mini creatures

[sullen cairn]

archosaurs of elrhaz

[west coral]

Interesting fellas

[light osprey]

Mmm yes, very simple

[ruby patio]

What about the archosaurs of Baharia smh

[light osprey]

They don’t exist

[ruby patio]

Make a chart of dust particles

[clever sable]

Cool

[tough parcel]

(It’s not, it smells)

[clever sable]

Nuh uh

[white matrix]

Falcons are cool

[tough parcel]

True!

[light osprey]

Yo, Falcon face reveal?

[tough parcel]

Me fr

[flat pond]

Any good Isisaurus paleo art besides this skeletal?

[tough parcel]

That’s Saltasaurus

[west coral]

Wrong fella, use these

[sullen cairn]

php's prolly your best non-skeletal ref

[flat pond]

Oof grabbed the wrong skeletal then

[storm heron]

That is Saltasaurus?

[light osprey]

Surprised?

[storm heron]

Have not seen a Saltasaurus skeletal in a long time

[sullen cairn]

who tf let larramendi cook

[sudden wind]

I LOVE FOOTPRINT SCALIGN GROAAA

[hallow spear]

I wouldn’t use the one on the left

[crude latch]

How accurate is the new Eurhinosaurus then?

[white matrix]

It’s actually pretty good seems pretty beefy though

[crude latch]

Any accurate skeletals we have atm

[scenic flame]

it's perfect

[white matrix]

Tail has some weird stuff going on but otherwise it’s good

[white matrix]

Not perfect but still good, iirc the eyes aren’t bulging enough as well

[scenic flame]

looks fine to me

[white matrix]

The jaw spilt doesn’t go back far enough as well

[crude latch]

That’s a Verry thin boi indeed how big is it compared to a human?

[scenic flame]

it's 5 meters long

[scenic flame]

jaw split?

[crude latch]

Ye that I noticed that

[scenic flame]

it's fine

[crude latch]

Could be a bit farther back tbh

[scenic flame]

there's nothing wrong with it

[crude latch]

This feels a bit better

[woeful falcon]

Its nothing that couldn't be adjusted or let go. Nitpick stuff

I think it looks fantastic all things considered. Could have turned out MUCH worse, as history has shown

[crude latch]

Yes Atleast it’s not another Kai

[scenic flame]

right but you also don't see the lip line extending down the entire jaw in any animal

[crude latch]

True

Wonder how Hatzeg will look

[boreal ore]

What's better?

[scenic flame]

it looks like Jiggy even got the slight dip from the eye socket

[crude latch]

Oh shoot ye

Nvm I do see the longer split ye it’s fine

[white matrix]

Neeco mentioned the same thing, jaw split doesn’t go back far enough, although I couldn’t get much of a source of him cause i think he went to bed

[woeful falcon]

Apparently for ichthyosaurs it would actually extend that far back, but its such a small detail one shouldn't give that much attention to it even if it isn't correct

[robust raft]

i am genuinely.. SO glad they didn't burn the kitchen with eurhino's design.

all they have to do is give kaiwhekea a much deserved remodel like they did for sucho, alio, and campto and ill be happy

[steady rock]

when was this, what

[scenic flame]

better skull curtesy of martinx, which eurhino does follow

[crude latch]

Check #path-of-titans

[woeful falcon]

Neeco likely got their information from Tosha who is a wiz when it comes to marine animals

And bc I recall them talking about this with ichthyosaurs recently

[white matrix]

wiz as in?

[woeful falcon]

Wiz as in wizard, they know their stuff

[crude latch]

Big brain

[white matrix]

If neeco got it from tosha than that’s something that would be wrong for the eurhino model

[tough parcel]

It is such a small and minor thing that I genuinely feel like it’s not even worth mentioning

[steady rock]

yay for eurino

[tough parcel]

“Oh no! This ichthyosaur’s mouth is 2 millimeters too short! The travesty!”

[crude latch]

Yes we’re all gonna die

[white matrix]

It’s more hey is this true or not rather than “omg so inaccurate”

[frozen basin]

Real

[bright veldt]

My main question is why they don't just call it by its name instead of misspelling Ichthyosaur lol

[woeful falcon]

Its really not. In fact iirc it was brought up recently on account of Tosha remarking that life restorations tend to get that part wrong with ichthyosaurs

[white matrix]

Agreed with blub, no one’s that pissed over that we were just talking about it cause we wanted to see if it’s true or not

[crude latch]

But hey Atleast we have

[woeful falcon]

Meanwhile the peeps at frontier managed to get it down seemingly, of all dev teams

Yeah I do find it weird they refer to it as just "the ichthyosaur" but spelt incorrectly

[steady rock]

should've been achillbonator, hatz or even microraptor

[crude latch]

Nah I think Eurhinosaurus is cute af

[steady rock]

yeah but all those creatures could've grabbed or pounced

[woeful falcon]

Better to have more life to the oceans. Already have plenty of creatures that can grab and pounce

But I digress this is paleo

[bright veldt]

Something to point out that is wrong with eurhino is that it has scales. As uncanny as it sounds, ichthyosaurs were scaleless. They had smooth skin like dolphins.

[steady rock]

oh.

[crude latch]

What makes u say that 🙃

[bright veldt]

I'm not gunna fault them for it since it's not commonly known and the scales are tiny, but still.

[steady rock]

achillobonator has raptor prey restraint
microraptor could've clung to larger animals and feed on the parasites/bugs on them
hatz was out there picking up and eating babies

[crude latch]

Nah I’m talking abt Eurhinosaurus

[tiny holly]

Probably not the conversation for this channel though

[bright veldt]

I'll give them this: it's the first design that's at least decent since Amarga

[tiny holly]

It's a very interesting 180 from kai

[steady rock]

what was wrong with bars?

[tiny holly]

most of what's wrong with eurhino are pretty minor nitpicks, meanwhile kai is uhhhhh. well it exists.

[scenic flame]

alot

[bright veldt]

What does bars have to do with this?

[steady rock]

i thought bars was after amarga

[white matrix]

I think they want to know what was wrong with bars in general, which is fine to ask even if it doesn’t have relevancy

[bright veldt]

Bars was one of the first creatures after the OG 10 lol

[steady rock]

oh.

[white matrix]

Hope Hatz will look good if Eurhino is this good

[crude latch]

They give hatz a giant ah nasty turkey dewlap 🤮

[white matrix]

Would be cool if they base it off of Sergis skeletal

[steady rock]

the give

what would you do if they turned hatz semi aquatic

[white matrix]

Cry

Hatzegopteryx the fisher

[woeful falcon]

I'd hope they base a bit off sergi's but have some PhP flavoring with that crest

[robust raft]

war crimes.

[frozen basin]

And properly folded wings

[crude latch]

Alr nvm then what have I done

[meager sedge]

@crude latch Please read our rules and keep this discord 13+.

[crude latch]

Ok Magpie plz don’t oof me I swear 😭

[woeful falcon]

All the faults considered, I still wasn't expecting eurhino to turn out as well as it did

[crude latch]

Same here

[robust raft]

seeing other dinosaurs get redesigns and new ones looks at least decent gives me hope

for kaiwhekea to finally be properly represent correctly as the unique elasmosaur it was and hopefully get a full redesign and playstyle change.

[crude latch]

I am considerably scared abt hatz tho

[woeful falcon]

I'm not as concerned for hatz. Though if it turns out profoundly bad I will be very confused. Hatz isn't exactly deprived of useable references

[bright veldt]

There'd be no excuse after its popularity in PhP tbh

[woeful falcon]

Exactly. Have a perfect life restoration to aim for

Hell one resource is by our boi Sergi after all.

[robust raft]

albatross hatz still haunts my nightmares to this day.

the day path of titans fucks up an azhdarchid is the day i cease to exist

[crude latch]

I just hope it didn’t get a nasty turkey dewlap

[woeful falcon]

I would be very happy if they went php with it, having that beautiful crest.

[robust raft]

if they do make hatz semi aquatic (god forbid.) at LEAST have it be based on a cool sea fairing bird

[crude latch]

Yes the crest is beautiful

[robust raft]

like giant petrels, that i could at least 30% get behind.

[crude latch]

This is what I’m scared for

[robust raft]

..fear.

[crude latch]

🤮

Looks nasty I hate dewlaps like that

[boreal ore]

[crude latch]

🤮

[robust raft]

its not even the gross frigatebird air sack i hate

its how BIG its head looks. and i know azhdarchids had really wonky head proportions but.. jeez put at least a LITTLE bit of muscle or flesh on the bony ahh neck 😭

[boreal ore]

Don't make me blush

[crude latch]

Yes but frigate birds are different in a sense

Yes I do like to put some muscle on my adzarchids neck

When I draw azhdarchids I give a large neck pouch like this

[boreal ore]

What is that neck

[vivid bear]

It looks like a bean

[boreal ore]

The moment you said that...I can never unsee it now

[vivid bear]

What a majestic creature

[elfin pulsar]

How’s eurhino in PoT look in terms of realistic

[crude latch]

Near spot on

[elfin pulsar]

Awesome

[crude latch]

With only a teeny teeny teeny teeny lil things that don’t matter

[elfin pulsar]

Like?

[crude latch]

Scroll up a bit

I think the main thing is that it’s just a wee fat

[elfin pulsar]

Ah ok

[crude latch]

Anybody have some good Barbara skelatals?

[woeful falcon]

I assume that was meant to say barsboldia haha

[crude latch]

No

Barbaradactylus or whatever it’s called I’m dum

[sullen cairn]

sassy prolly has one

[woeful falcon]

Oh lmao.

[crude latch]

Did I say the name correctly?

[sullen cairn]

barbaridactylus

[woeful falcon]

One letter off

[crude latch]

Ah ok

[robust raft]

nyctosaurids are just so fun to look at and draw in general

they're just so shaped in a way that my brain just goes apeshit for

[icy granite]

Isnt Barbaradactylus like a few bones

[crude latch]

Idk to much abt nyctosaurids tbh any pics?

[icy granite]

more than I thought

[robust raft]

theres this beautiful top view of nyctosaurus by GaffaMondo on deviantart

beautifully showcases how nyctosaurids just went full albatross and lost all their fingers except for the wing finger that, well, supports the wing.

[crude latch]

Besides barb what are othe desert dwelling pterosaurs?

[robust raft]

err let me see.

Caelestiventus is one of them, i think.

[crude latch]

How good are the skelatals of it atm

[robust raft]

let me see if i can find one-

[crude latch]

Alr

[robust raft]

this is honestly the best one i could find to be honest.

[crude latch]

Oooh

[robust raft]

i said honest twice ☠️

[crude latch]

Funky guy but tiny

I think I’m looking for smth big atm

[robust raft]

hmm

you still looking for desert dwelling pterosaurs?

[crude latch]

Yes for….smth

[robust raft]

Caiuajara is a good one.

[crude latch]

Lemme check it rq

[robust raft]

its a Tapejarid and its been found in massive clusters like this

[crude latch]

Ooh

[robust raft]

and it also, in fact, lived in a desert.

also heres a skeletal.. no idea if this is completely accurate or not since im still kinda bad at pterosaur anatomy in general but.. looks good to me lol

[bright veldt]

SassyPaleonerd's thing is Pterosaurs so yeah. Hella reliable.

[barren compass]

Is the eurhino model accurate?

[crude latch]

Near perfect actually

[bright veldt]

The major issue is that it has scales but that's about it

[crude latch]

Just a wee fat aswell

[white matrix]

Oh my God it didn't even register that Eurhino probably shouldn't have scales

[barren compass]

It looks real fast in the trailer

[white matrix]

Yeah I just did some quick research, I had no clue we had preserved Icthyo skin

[bright veldt]

Eh eurhino was probably a bit fatter than most depictions have it, so thats not an issue

cause blubber

[white matrix]

Other than scales and the slight thinness Eurhino seems fine to me

[crude latch]

True

[woeful falcon]

Scales, the mouth not going far enough back, pupil shape perhaps. Those are the most apparent issues

Very minute save for the scales, but I think one could look past them too

Overall look and feel of the animal is probably on the mark

[crude latch]

I thought we agree the mouth was fine

[white matrix]

Either way anything is better than what they did to Kaiwhekea

[woeful falcon]

Who agreed to that

[light osprey]

Anything ever is probably better than that Kaiwhekea

[light osprey]

Op?

[crude latch]

Op?

[white matrix]

Op?

[light osprey]

Midwestern exclamative, if you fellas have never heard it

[crude latch]

Like original Poster?

[woeful falcon]

https://twitter.com/fishboy86164577/status/1711420402910810326

That's the thing about ichthyosaur mouths

[crude latch]

Ah ok

Ye thr jawline goes behind the eye tho I think it’s fine

[scenic flame]

Huh

[woeful falcon]

That's the other thing, the visible eye would be like, here or something, just to give an idea of how farther back it would extend

Idk if eurhino is some sort of exception to this. I'm just going off of what tosha said

https://vxtwitter.com/fishboy86164577/status/1711421179477803348

[light osprey]

That is certainly a very distinct appearance

[woeful falcon]

That being said, how far back the jaw extends isn't an uncommon mistake to make it would seem, easily excusable. The scales are a bit less excusable in my opinion but easily ignored. it is otherwise very nice model I think

It looks like what it's supposed to be, which I can't say for other oceanic occupants

[mossy anchor]

How accurate is the eurhinosaurus model? I know kai has some…issues, so i am curious

I feel stupid because i couldve literally read one message up, mb

[storm heron]

Uh, fogive my limited knowledge but Eurhinosaurus having scales is inaccurate? does this extend to many other ancient marine reptiles?

[white matrix]

Do you want me to say it

[mossy anchor]

Go ahead idm

[white matrix]

I’ll just copy paste what blub said since it’s early in the morning and I’m still tired

“Scales, the mouth not going far enough back, pupil shape perhaps. Those are the most apparent issues

Very minute save for the scales, but I think one could look past them too”

[mossy anchor]

Ty! At least the model isnt the most inaccurate, and it does look really good compared to kai imo :)

[crude latch]

Yes so the main thing that’s inaccurate about it, is it having scales but everything else is just really really really really tiny and legit doesn’t matter.

[scenic flame]

it differs between clades but it would seem ichthyosaurs were entirely scaleless

[snow python]

Just find it on YB, Copium was MASSIVE
https://youtu.be/R7B7X3ggb2A?si=Igdyeqi_ou9NAS4D

[hallow spear]

Cope COULD be large

but it isnt 100%

[white matrix]

sigh this vividen guy is a menace at least hes correcting it this time

[crude latch]

We even have Ichty skin iirc

[scenic flame]

this angle gives abit of a better view and it looks like the visible eye is p good, and the mouth seems to go abit further back than it looked

[rose thorn]

I’m actually impressed they did so well with Eurhino considering most restorations of it have something wrong, which is even more crazy since it is one of the most complete Ichthyosaurs known

[scenic flame]

still trying to understand why though

[crude latch]

What?

[rose thorn]

I assume you’re referring to the beak lol. Potentially sift feeding

[scenic flame]

why the long face

[tiny holly]

embodiment of 🤓

[crude latch]

😭

[rose thorn]

No one has taken time to really study Eurhino in depth

[tiny holly]

a shame because its very interesting looking, has quite a distinct appearance compared to other ichthyosaurs

[rose thorn]

Its family in general is weird. Excalibosaurus has a similar setup but it’s overbite is smaller

[scenic flame]

it's got a rather saw like appearance

specifically in reference to the fact it has a very consistent pattern of large then a few smaller teeth etc

[tiny holly]

definitely lends it a comb like appearance imo

[sudden wind]

here is how an Ichthyosaur jaw split should look like

[crude latch]

God convergent evolution is weird, A swordfish and a Eurhinosaurus

[sudden wind]

also for Eurhino

[rose thorn]

Eurhinodelphis is also proposed to have been a sift feeder (the overall theory for it applying to these Ichthyosaurs comes from them anyway)

Well, neeco posted the proper paper bit

[sudden wind]

false case of convergence. it probably didn't use its rostrum like a Xiphiidae given how it doesn't look like one

[tiny holly]

"visually very similar but for entirely different purposes" is still a pretty interesting case of physical convergence when it happens

[crude latch]

I was mainly talking about body shape in general with Ichthyosaurs practically becoming fish lizards

[sudden wind]

Well, Eurhino was not particularly pelagic compared to other later ichthyosaurs. It probably had a slower lifestyle than other parvipelvians.

[rose thorn]

I thought Eurhino’s body was that of a particularly powerful swimmer?

[sudden wind]

I saw Tosha commenting on it and saying that it isn't very much. Still better than earlier Ichthyosaurs, but not as good as Temnodontosaurs and later Tunnosaurs

[scenic flame]

very weird considering how much it looks like a fast and powerful swimmer

[junior dawn]

that looks great

also yeah, with PoT eurhino it seems to be better than in most ichthyosaur recons, but it still doesnt go back enough
even then, I really like it personally. I think jiggy did a very good job with it

[still prairie]

I mean finally a pretty accurate playable

[crude latch]

Unlike this clown

[violet bear]

*sad kai noises

[crude latch]

Universes biggest 🤡

[still prairie]

Just.How did Jiggy or anyone else let that slide?

Like i hope it gets a diet change and a remodel to fit with it

[crude latch]

Ye Bcs Kai was a filter feeder

[frosty anvil]

Could just replace kai with some other plesiosaur entirely

[crude latch]

Yes tbh I would like that, give us smth like Styxosaurus or Elasmosaurus

[tough parcel]

No

[crude latch]

W h y

[tough parcel]

The ones you listed are literally the same thing as each other and they’d just be (current) Kai but large, keep Kai and unique-ify it

[crude latch]

True MAKE KAI PHAT AND A FILTER FEEDER

[light osprey]

Alexandronectes, best of both worlds

[still prairie]

Kai was originally supposed to be Woolungasaurus but Woolunga became invalid

[crude latch]

Oh wow guess what else became Invalid IIRC Laten

[shut patio]

Alexander

[light osprey]

Yes, Alexander (?)

[still prairie]

Laten became invalid after release iirc? But inequalis lat is just steno so no point kinda

[scenic flame]

the laten thing was years after PoT made their's tho

[heady thunder]

Laten cooler name anyway

[frosty anvil]

Fr i love the name latenivenatrix im so sad its invalid now

[light osprey]

Using a junior synonym ain’t a big deal Fr

[still prairie]

We have hiding huntress and narrow handed lizard.Might be childish but i prefer lat

[tough parcel]

I say let it die! Cool name, but the guy who named it is awful

[frosty anvil]

I prefer hiding huntress

[frosty anvil]

Oh fr? Tell me about the guy

[tough parcel]

Wait, am I going insane…Laten had a bad guy associated with it, but now idk if it was a describer or named after him or

[shut patio]

What did this person actually do

[light osprey]

Etymology don’t make a name great, it’s how easy it is to say Smh

[heady thunder]

Yep. Easy to say plus sounds cool = W.

[shut patio]

Latenivenatrix isn't that hard to say

Could just be pot making me used to it though, and it's not like stenonychosaurus is all that better in that regard

[heady thunder]

Laten is very easy to say, full name? Eh dont matter, you only say that once then cut it in half

[still prairie]

Oh what the-

[tough parcel]

Science is truly incredible!

[crude latch]

So can we agree that this is what Eurhinosaurus jawline should be

[unborn bane]

@tough parcel Please don't bring external drama into the server! Refer to our #rules

[bitter oasis]

Because we have a rule against bringing drama or similar in the server we have to delete the link, this conversation can be continued in dms

[tough parcel]

https://www.instagram.com/speed.thief/

Go give this artist some love, really good dinosaur art and decently funny

[white matrix]

love the art

[chilly knot]

Astor

[scenic flame]

why does the scelidosaurus look so offended

[tough parcel]

It’s great

[still prairie]

I seemed to have landed myself in a bit of a predicament

[light osprey]

I need more art of mundane Mesozoic shenanigans

[plain stirrup]

could pachy have sported feathers like this?

[graceful ermine]

Hey I was just curious what you guys think of my allo and what things I can fix about it

[heady thunder]

What allo

[white matrix]

afaik, no.

[light osprey]

Marginocephalia seem to diverge from any possibility of protofeather coverings. There are other Neornithischia which it’s much more probable in

[white matrix]

intraspecific competiton between smilos was brutal

[white matrix]

How accurate is the isles allo?

[clever sable]

I mean, it's not bad, it should definitely have lips and maybe the keratin crests are too big but idk, but overall it's pretty good

[crude latch]

Anyone got a good Nemicolopterus skelatal? One with it standing preferably

[white matrix]

iirc this is good?

[crude latch]

I mean, ye

[rose thorn]

Should prob preface that “Nemicolopterus” isn’t distinct, it’s just a baby Sinopterus

[crude latch]

Depression 😭

[light osprey]

Silly goose

[crude latch]

😭

[light osprey]

For a second it reminded me of that Alcione art

Well maybe it doesn’t look that similar upon second observation

[rose thorn]

Wait, what’s the white pteranodont if the black ones are Tethydraco

[light osprey]

Male Tethydraco?

I think the big one might be Simurghia

[crude latch]

Y e a and?

[exotic helm]

Thoughts?

[tough parcel]

These seem like heavily overinflated sizes for assumedly Utahraptor and Deinonychus

[crude latch]

Chunky goofy man

[elfin pulsar]

Is that actually resting position?

[exotic helm]

Sea blimp

[clever sable]

Hector's ichthyosaur solos fr fr

(Well yes but that doesn't matter, Himal is plenty cool, it doesn't need to be the strongest or biggest to be Awesome)

[exotic helm]

Hella dubious specimen

[clever sable]

I mean, we have 2 specimens 1 we have no clue where it is, the other is likely in the basement of a museum that closed a while ago, it's still not like super reliable but compared to stuff like maraapunisaurus it's relatively reliable, still not great though

[tough parcel]

“Relatively reliable”

Both supposed specimens are inaccessible

[clever sable]

Relatively reliable in the sense that we may have some hope of maybe finding it, plus random said somewhere that the 457 mm measurement is likely not a typo

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/uncle-roger-sus-kinda-sus-gif-20844551

[tough parcel]

Well A) is it being looked for and B) are the initial measurements reliable?

As someone said elsewhere, maybe the only reason measurements are consistent is because there’s only one set of measurements to reference. You can’t exactly re-measure something that doesn’t exist

[clever sable]

The reason 457 millimeters isn't an accident is because it's actually described in inches

[light osprey]

Is this how Ichthyornis beak should look like?

[tough parcel]

Ok so perhaps that wasn’t an accident, the first point still stands and my half-made third point does as well

[stiff osprey]

reminder that hector's ichthyosaur has vertebral lengths in the range of Shonisaurus popularis

not proportionally, the vertebrae are straight up just shoni sized

[tough parcel]

So it may be big, but not kaiju-sized

[clever sable]

457 mm sounds a lot bigger than shoni sized

[light osprey]

About ye sized, quite the big boy

[stiff osprey]

length, not diameter. the verts are 69-90mm long

[clever sable]

So was he just super wide or something

[stiff osprey]

maybe

[light osprey]

Not worth the effort yapping about it cause no one can review the actual material

[clever sable]

On a scale of 1-10 how reliable is hector's icthyosaur

[sullen cairn]

23

[stiff osprey]

worse maraapunisaurus / 10

[clever sable]

Unless we break into a certain new Zealand museum and look for the specimen

[tough parcel]

Crying

[light osprey]

Sounds problematic

[clever sable]

How can anything be worse than maraapunisaurus

How can anything be worse than maraapunisaurus

[white matrix]

troodon

[clever sable]

Oh yeah, and nanotyrannus ofc

[sullen cairn]

bottom guy's achillo

[stiff osprey]

both are trash, both are lost, but maraapunisaurus is better because all of maraapunisaurus's measurements show it is a giant sauropod

hector's ichthyosaur is 50/50 on blue whale sized or 7 times smaller than a blue whale

[clever sable]

What is more likely to still get intact/possible to find

[stiff osprey]

don't know, don't care