paleontology

[sullen cairn]

all the french things I have on hand (aren tooth was scaled w/ average of crown length and crown height to franoy's majungasaurus because I didn't like how big it was getting)

arco, genu, tarasco are from grillcourt, vitrolles-la-plaine scaled by me, and pouciex and la boucharde are from somewhere I forgot

I think there might be a chart somewhere in theropoda actually I’ll try and find that

[west coral]

So Arco, Boucharde, and Porcieux are all from the same place?

[sullen cairn]

iirc my sizes might be a bit longer cause these have majungasaurine proportions

and i just realized i have la boucharde a meter too long

[storm heron]

Im intrigued about the Aren Abelisaur

[sullen cairn]

i'd also use the 4.9m for pourcieux cause i think the 39 on mine might be a typo

[sullen cairn]

yeah i don't like it

[storm heron]

What is it known from? and where is it from?

[light osprey]

The Aren Formation if I had to guess

[sullen cairn]

wait aren is spanish
this is what i guess for copy pasting my labels when everything else is french

anyways aren tooth is 45mmx24mm

[storm heron]

Oh, a tooth taxon

[light osprey]

Wait a minute how did this end up being about abelisaurs

[sullen cairn]

largest tooth from fmnh pr 2100 is 38.4mm x 22.6mm

i would just scale by crown width for a slighly more palatable size but then the i'd need to scale the 27mm width crown from tremp to nearly 7m anyways

largest tremp tooth averaging out width and length is 5.3m
and all of these teeth get like 15% larger when you scale em as majungasaurines

it bothers me

[light osprey]

Given its contemporary fauna, 7 metres sounds perfectly normal

[storm heron]

Spanish Abelisaurid

[sullen cairn]

my larger issue with tremp and aren is them being like twice the mass of the next largest abelisaur on the continent

significantly expanding their size in europe based off teeth feels wrong

[storm heron]

Putting aside potential scaling issues and limited material, this is not really unusual in environments with Abelisaurids (arguably, can be normal).

[sullen cairn]

yeah i'm sure its possible but that would make me a disgusting upsizer

[light osprey]

What do ya know, tooth scaling ended up being problematic

[sullen cairn]

who could have forseen this

[storm heron]

After all, have you seen Majungasaurus size variation: The size gap between FMNH PR 2100 and MNHN MAJ 4 is stunning . . . .

[sullen cairn]

good point

[light osprey]

Silly goose abelisaurs

[sullen cairn]

maybe spain's objective superiority to france just gave it larger abelisaurs

[light osprey]

The fossil record never lies 💯

Wait is Hypselosaurus the only Tremp Titanosaur

[storm heron]

Also, this is probably due to quality and silhoutte, but the lower jaws of the Kenyan Abelisaurid silhouttes is pretty deep (Reminds me of Chenanisaurus).

[light osprey]

No, there’s Abditosaurus. Whoops 😬

[light osprey]

African Abelisaur clade

[storm heron]

If only we had a less grainy picture of that skeletal

[sullen cairn]

real

[wide glen]

australian spinos are spiders with spines change my mind

or procoptodons with sails change my mind

[white matrix]

If anyone tells you that science is boring show them this
https://reddit.com/r/Paleontology/s/hfCblOBYF0

[west coral]

What I’ve got so far

not much, but it’s honest work

[white matrix]

What's this

[west coral]

Argiles et Grès à Reptiles Formation

Basically French abelisaurs and a few other fun fellas

All i need now is something for Atsinganosaurus, Garrigatitan, Matheronodon and Variraptor

[sullen cairn]

larramendi probably has atsinganosaurus and variraptor, matheronodon can be a zalmoxes scaled to 5m, and garrigatitan idk

description prolly has some stuff for size

i need to get better at naming pdfs

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/yeaaaah-gif-18170915

Maybe include the non-dinosaur taxa as well?

[west coral]

Such as?

[west coral]

Is Matheronodon really that big

[sullen cairn]

That seems like an offhand statement in an article so if you really want you could scale the 22cm maxilla with a zalmoxes skeletal

[storm heron]

Arcovenator's proportions are weird, and GAT seems to have oversized the . . . squamosal? I think.

[sullen cairn]

GAT’s abelisaurus will never not unsettle me

[lavish frigate]

Scrolling back through here to find good paleo art and saw this. Technically speaking the Mesozoic ended when the asteroid struck so technically…..there were post Mesozoic pterosaurs and dinosaurs

[light osprey]

The Allodaposuchids, and Azhdarchid. There’s also a big enantiornithean but that’s a dinosaur so obviously you would include it

[sullen cairn]

~4.5m seems to be about right for it

[light oxide]

. . . Why does it look like an ornithopod with tyrannosaurid legs and a protoceratopsian head?

[nocturne gazelle]

💀

It's got grandmas smile

[lavish frigate]

My man got a small stegosaur stuck in his jaws

[nocturne gazelle]

Must be painful

[gloomy elm]

Name an odd extinct animal that you found out about a while ago

[nocturne gazelle]

Behold

[tranquil quartz]

Xianglong

[white matrix]

Atopondentatus

[velvet ore]

Pervatasaurud

[white matrix]

Oh lol it looks so funky

[west coral]

I was just asking since it’s larger than Boucharde and Pourcieux

[gloomy elm]

What the hell is it

[velvet ore]

You don't 2ant to know

[west coral]

Pocket sized everything

Except matherodon

[tranquil quartz]

A made up joke dinosaur

[sullen cairn]

parasaurolopus in the southwest vs parasaurolophus in canada

[compact leaf]

I know I've asked you before but what do you use for these?

I have a size chart I need to make

[sullen cairn]

https://pixlr.com/e/

[compact leaf]

there's a certain family of dinosaurs I want to throw into one of these

[sullen cairn]

titanosaurs of course, using larramendi's measurements

[compact leaf]

I might have to do that actually

I'm not touching tooth scaled rebbachisaurus though, my sanity can't take it

[sullen cairn]

but it'd be funny

[heady thunder]

What are the theropods.

[sullen cairn]

left to right - bistahieversor, teratophoneus, cf. teratophoneus (might be new taxon), daspletosaurus sp, gorgosaurus

[compact leaf]

idk what image template to use ;-; all this newfangled technology is too complicated for me

[sullen cairn]

i usually just copy paste an image and work from there

as in 1) copy image and open it as new project 2) duplicate the background (makes new layer) 3) erase everything from background 4) erase/wand out everything from the remanining layer

[heady thunder]

Wait gorgo is bigger then dasp?

[sullen cairn]

biggest dinosaur park das is the size of torosus holotype
and for gorgo i'm using the magical 1.093m femur (the paras are all fragmentary as hell so i'm letting it slide)

this is with gorgo holotype

[heady thunder]

Dasp really got that tumor head going

[sullen cairn]

what are you talking about

[heady thunder]

The megamind dome

[compact leaf]

do you have any particular strategy for getting the scale bars to match up?

[sullen cairn]

cut them out with wand tool and check how long they are in pixels

or use the line shape tool and measure it with that

[compact leaf]

the image quality for poor europasaurus is horrifying lol, I guess it happens when all your relatives are huge

I’m moving on to the abydosaurus holotype next

[sullen cairn]

me when wikipedia still has abydosaurus in mussentuchit

[broken inlet]

Hey he’s sensitive bro he might be dead but still

[compact leaf]

the collection number lists mussentuchit too from what I’ve found, what did it get moved to?

[sullen cairn]

cedar and peloro also seem to have been gobbled up into upper ruby ranch

[compact leaf]

there’s a monster uncatalogued abydosaurus too but tracking down info about it is challenging

[west coral]

Added Garriga and Vari

[compact leaf]

really there’s two but one is just ribs I’m pretty sure (I think the same ribs the holotype has but still)

[sullen cairn]

rib scaling is based

[steady rock]

name prehestoric rhinos and elephants
of the paleogene

[sullen cairn]

as opposed to rhinos and elephants of the mesozoic of course

[steady rock]

no, opposed to the rhinos and elephants of the cenozoic

im doing paleogene research, i dont want anything before or after it

[sullen cairn]

ah

[steady rock]

so 66 - 23.03 mya

[steady rock]

im dyslexic, read it to me

[west coral]

Everything within Rhinoceridae, it seems

[steady rock]

i cant read that, its so small ToT

[sullen cairn]

ronzotherium diceratherium subhyracodon trigonias and maybe aceratherium at least

[steady rock]

you forgot the apatosaurus sized one

pachratherium

pacreustherium

[sullen cairn]

in that case all these if wikipedia dating can be trusted (+hyracodon and uintaceras

[steady rock]

ty, any elephants?

[sullen cairn]

wikipedia says elephants don't appear until the miocene

[steady rock]

damn

wait what about gastornis?

[sullen cairn]

firmly paleogene

[steady rock]

was andrewsarchus a predator

[sullen cairn]

yep

[steady rock]

start naming paleogene predators for me

[sullen cairn]

pretty much anything in creodonta

[west coral]

Now that French fm is done what else should I do

I have become slightly addicted to chart making

[sullen cairn]

huincul could be neat

[light osprey]

That one already exists

Horseshoe Canyon is one I’ve never seen

[compact leaf]

no sauropods L formation

it does have edmontonia though so that kind of makes up for it

[light osprey]

L take 💅

[compact leaf]

I have a meme perfect for this but the mods will bash my head in

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/cringe-gif-26494931

[west coral]

Already made

[sullen cairn]

Unbelievable
Ilokelesia’s head isn’t minorly adjusted to fit its preserved postorbital

Tsk tsk tsk

[light osprey]

Adamantina when 😈

[sullen cairn]

andre made one already

[light osprey]

so what hasn’t been done

[sullen cairn]

(I have no idea why there's a megaraptoran here)

if someone's up for scaling various indet titanosaur material pycno's formation hasn't been done

[light osprey]

Some indet. Coelurosaur material from Adamantina

[sullen cairn]

andre has standards for what he scales
unlike myself

[light osprey]

Quiriquina been done yet?

[light osprey]

Outrageous, can’t believe he didn’t include the referred Cimoliasaurus

[sullen cairn]

how dare lancian not scale a single centrum

[stiff osprey]

Stop naming new formations, we've already found all we need to find. You're telling me a real geologist went and named a section of rock Quiriquina? We are being played for fools, all of us

[light osprey]

Udurchukan surely hasn’t gotten a chart yet?

[sullen cairn]

i will scale the metacarpal with tarbosaurus

[stiff osprey]

Don't make me do this Table

[sullen cairn]

i have become giga, destroyer of theropoda

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/palpatine-dewit-gif-11426456

[stiff osprey]

lmao I was there when Joans did that

[sullen cairn]

lamborlobator if it was based and an actual specimen

[light osprey]

Surely there’s a way to scale the material tho. that isn’t cursed

[sullen cairn]

yeah but like

[stiff osprey]

The metacarpal? If you scale it based on Sue you get 12.6 meters and like 11 tons

[sullen cairn]

wow!!??? t rex sized russian tyrannosaur confirmed by random!11!!!???

[stiff osprey]

Which is pretty cursed, but like. Not compared to this

[light osprey]

Is this what I’m left with? A sue sized monstrosity

[sullen cairn]

yes
this is the most parsimonious and objectively correct method of scaling

[light osprey]

seems legit

[stiff osprey]

You can get smaller results if you use juvenile tyrannosaurids. But then you are left with a giant juvenile

[light osprey]

Such a silly fella this metacarpal. I decree we name it already and make up a non ridiculous arbitrary size for it

[sullen cairn]

Of course maybe it had proportionally larger forelimbs compared to other derived tyrannosaurids, but that is pure conjecture. And I would never engage in such baseless speculation.

[light osprey]

I will 🗿. I’m thinking 🤔 10 metre tyrannosaur, with long legs

[sullen cairn]

giant alioramine, closely related to the nanxiong titan

luckily we can completely disregard this because scaling with appendicular extremeties is stupid

like you can make albertosaurus 11.5m scaling with a pedal phalange of gorgosaurus

[light osprey]

Brilliant, glad to know there is infact no basis for a giant Udurchukan Tyrannosaur

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/the-undertaker-aj-styles-wwe-boneyard-match-wrestle-mania36-gif-16943984

[sullen cairn]

i practically created the thing
i get to say this

god bless pe discord

[west coral]

good idea

No sauropods 😔

[light osprey]

But full of fun early Maastrichtian fauna

[west coral]

And hadrosaurs!

Giant hadrosaurs fix the sauropod hole

[pearl briar]

so the possibilites for meraxes vs mapu is big?

[sullen cairn]

iirc meraxes is slightly older than mapu

[storm heron]

Im slightly older than my sibling, yet I am current co-existing with them.

[west coral]

by a few million years

[west coral]

Anyone got a reference for Arrhinoceratops?

[stiff osprey]

GAT has one, but I cannot find it with more than 8 pixels

[west coral]

8 pixels will do

[compact leaf]

@sullen cairn I need more help with size charts

[stiff osprey]

I got it

[compact leaf]

I'm debating putting in the monster abydosaurus next to the holotype

[sullen cairn]

did ya find it

[compact leaf]

I found a potential referred size

[stiff osprey]

if it's nima's. Do not

There is a bigass somphospondylian from cedar mountain, but I don't think it's abydo

[compact leaf]

it's not nima's I don't think, the bigass cedar mountain one usually gets referred into sauroposeidon from what I remember (assuming it's even a somphospondyl)

[sullen cairn]

where'd you find the size

[compact leaf]

the smaller of the two monster estimates is Hartman's from some uncatalogued postcrania, the 29m estimate is nima's based off like two ribs

so hard to say what exactly is going on with that

[stiff osprey]

I FORGOT THE CENSORSHIP AGAIN

anyways, the [REDACTED]

[light osprey]

He’s done it 🗣️

Certainly that has to be Sauroposeidon

[sullen cairn]

finally, a worthy opponent for 15t adult siats

[compact leaf]

yeah the bigger abydosaurus isn't that one, neither is nima's monster apparently

[stiff osprey]

Nima's monster is a hallucination, big Abydo is a scapula

But I have scaled it before, it's not close to giraffatitan/brach sizes

[sullen cairn]

but muh undescribed rib

[compact leaf]

a scapula and some ribs we can't forget about the ribs, yeah it's not huge when compared to brachi (still a big animal) just noticeably larger than the holotype

I can't find the line tool in pixlr or I'd include the bigger one, but alas I am plagued by laziness

[stiff osprey]

my scaling was 17m

[sullen cairn]

Really? My scaling was 19.8m (I just made it up)

[compact leaf]

I'll throw atlasaurus in there for fun ( I genuinely don't know if it's still a brachiosaurid, I am deeply confused)

[sullen cairn]

giant atlasaurus jumpscare

[stiff osprey]

oh hi me

if only eofauna had given their Atlas normal soft tissue

[compact leaf]

the skull looks brachiosaurid-ish but that could be deformation

every time I see it reconstructed as a turiasaur though it has a completely different skull, the last taxonomic analysis I heard of makes it a brachiosaurid so he'll make the size chart

we're skipping galvesaurus for now because the image doesn't play nice and when I shrink it it looks like a potato drew it

I should not have picked such a fragmentary family to try and do this with, half of them don't have descriptions and only half the described ones have a skeletal

[gusty mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/jay-z-head-bob-dancing-gif-8253100

https://youtu.be/UcIKTuA3GLc?si=NZ2Xeaz5AIF4MqAn

[ruby patio]

The metacarpal is only a few centimeters longer than an 8 meter Tarbosaurus specimen

Its not that big

[stiff osprey]

"only a few centimeters" on a bone that is itself 6 cm long

[sullen cairn]

potato potato

[stiff osprey]

you could say that the bone is infinitely larger than that of 8 meter tarbosaurus and you'd technically be within a few cm

[light osprey]

Question is why is our comparative Tarbosaurus so smol

They definitely get longer than that

[sullen cairn]

its not 551-1

a mere 15m animal scaling with that

6.8cm vs 3.8cm is technically only a 3cm difference ig

[light osprey]

Long metacarpal fella

[stiff osprey]

sue gets the smallest result that I know of

but T.rex has pretty variable (and poorly described) arms, so there might be a 11m amur monster base out there

[sullen cairn]

11m is suecheng size so it's not that bad

[light osprey]

More theropods on the larger size in the Maastrichtian wouldn’t hurt

[compact leaf]

why is atlasaurus so big

what could possibly justify it being that big, like it's not huge but compared to the other nonsense I'm putting in here he's a monster

[stiff osprey]

you using the grey silhouette or normal atlasaurus?

[compact leaf]

I'm using the normal one it just looks huge next to the weirdly tiny european brachiosaurids

I haven't gotten the real big boys in yet, but a lot of the larger brachiosaurids aren't described so I probably won't bother with them

[stiff osprey]

fun fact: Atlasaurus is the only base that makes that femur not an eldritch horror

the other sauropods in the middle jurassic are like, shunosaurus, patagosaurus and mamenchisaurids. which when scaled to that femur will be anywhere from 50 to 100 tons

in the mid jurassic

[compact leaf]

that's actually horrifying

what happens if you scale it to basal brachiosaurids?

[stiff osprey]

I don't know how long are their femora sadly, but it's bigger than that one dubious brachio specimen

[compact leaf]

you might need to narrow that down a bit I know a lot of dubious brachi specimens lol

[west coral]

horseshoe canyon done

Eotrike mains seeing its real size:

[light osprey]

Quaint lil formation

[west coral]

Has everything a good late Cretaceous North American formation needs

[fossil ingot]

I mean yeah
Bro is megamind

[west coral]

What is the tyrannosaur behind Teratophoneus?

[sullen cairn]

currently cf. teratophoneus currei but it may be a distinct taxon

[sullen cairn]

its from that rainbow glitter quarry or whatever

[fossil ingot]

Tbh I didn't know Pycno was around this weight

[sullen cairn]

some of that's cause the gdi has carno's thick pelvis and tail

[fossil ingot]

I REALLY need a Good Sucho Skeletal

[sullen cairn]

but yeah pycno's rivaling contemporary tyrannosaurs in size as a subadult

[fossil ingot]

I have a hypothetical "adult" Pycno
Its bit over 4 tons

[west coral]

Sucho outclasses all of them sizewise

[fossil ingot]

Idk why this guy looks weird

[west coral]

Best one out there right now

[fossil ingot]

I know that
Sucho is bit above 5 tons(its like 5.2-5.7 tons range iirc)
Which rivals in weight with dinos like Acro and Tarbo

[light osprey]

are Mahajangasuchids capable of the typical Eusuchian posture?

[sullen cairn]

i don't like hypothetical adult pycno cause almost all of them are people assuming a big premax from brazil is an adult pycno despite there being practically zero logical basis for that

[fossil ingot]

Sucho was huge after all
From its Family it has the Longest Legs and Armz proportionally to its Body
Having also serrations on its teeth
I love sucho tbh
Both in POT and Irl

[fossil ingot]

Yeah
But rn Pycno is like bit over 3 tons
Smaller tham Sauro(5 tons)
But Bigger than Allo (2-2.5 tons)
Also around Dasp weight range

[west coral]

Someone needs to draw a Sucho slapping an Eocar

[sullen cairn]

allo can get up to pycno size too (680's still allo right)

[fossil ingot]

I bet I win in a Arm strength battle against a Sucho
(Obv Joke since we lose to a T-Rex so imagine sucho XD)

[west coral]

Table, you got anything about the French giant megalosaurid?

[sullen cairn]

not on hand but i can look

[fossil ingot]

Allosaurus Fragilis is 2.5 tons and around 8-9 meters
Its smaller than Dasp

[sullen cairn]

iirc amnh 680's allosaurus sp or whatever right now

[light osprey]

Cause Caririsuchus is shown doing it here, but idk if it’s universal

[fossil ingot]

Epantherias is still rather unknown tho
Unlike Sauro
I remember Epantherias having estimates of around 5 tons but those are pretty oudated tbh

[west coral]

AMNH 680 is 3.12

[light osprey]

Or wait, Caririsuchus is just a Sebecian, not a Mahajungauchid specifically, so maybe my question would apply to the whole clade

[west coral]

So it was found in Marnes de Dives?

[sullen cairn]

i have a hunch it was reconned like that cause of this

paleofile has it normal posture so prolly isn't anything special

[sullen cairn]

Oolithes Ferrugineuse de Villers

[west coral]

Can’t find anything about it fauna wise

but HOT DAMN is this guy huge!

[light osprey]

But is it still capable of said alternate posture?

[sullen cairn]

the splayed posture seems to be an artifact of crushing more than anything so even if it could i'm not not sure why it would when it can stand normally

i doubt its any more capable than anything else in the chart

[west coral]

I’m pretty sure Ferrugineuse de Villers and Marnes de Dives are the same

[sullen cairn]

marnes seems to underlie oolithe

[west coral]

Oh now I see

Not much to make a chart about

[sullen cairn]

and the names are a headache

[west coral]

but I’m going to do it anyways

[sullen cairn]

good luck with oogle fredrik villa

[west coral]

About all I could find

And I’d just like to make the announcement that this thing is longer than leed

[sullen cairn]

cripes
how long is it standing?

[west coral]

13.1
12.3
11.4

Biggest to smallest estimates

Horrifyingly long

[sullen cairn]

must've been hunting leed

[steep needle]

damn man who put it on roids lmao

[west coral]

First they have the most confusing roster of late cretaceous fellas probably ever

Now they have a roided up mega-megalosaur thats longer than rex

[sullen cairn]

i prefer the lower measurements for my sanity's sake

[west coral]

that still makes it 10cm shorter than rex

You cannot escape the megamegalosaur

[sullen cairn]

isn't mega megalosaurs just megalosaurs

[ruby patio]

Shshsh size doesnt matter, its how the theropod uses it

[ruby patio]

Ah I found it.
PIN 553-1 (its mentioned as PIN 553-2 but thats a typo) is comparable in size

And PIN 553-1 isnt very large

[sullen cairn]

there's more than one way to scale a tyrannosaur

[wispy summit]

Adult nanotyrannus

[light osprey]

Crimes against scaling happening here

[west coral]

With the help of table, albertavenator and sphaerotholus have been added

[storm heron]

What is that Yellow Hadrosaur, and how large is it?

[light osprey]

E. regalis average size go brr I have no idea how big it gets

[white matrix]

Isnt that dans outdated Megalo skeletal? Pretty sure he has a new one

[heady thunder]

Wait, edmonto r. lived before Rex?

[rose thorn]

Yes. Late Campanian

[gray zealot]

looks more like the new one, the old one is still on his website unless theres yet another

[white matrix]

This is his updated megalo

[gray zealot]

The one in that old image is from this year from what I remember

[gray zealot]

That looks like the one from earlier this year in particular

[white matrix]

idk from what I've heard the one I sent is dans most updated megalo

[lavish frigate]

Paleo accurate deinocheirus alert 🚨

[spare knot]

another day of not being able to comment under fossil finding videos without crazies saying the earth isnt over 8k years old

[white matrix]

Wait is that going to be a movie??

[lunar copper]

probably another short, like battle at big rock

[lavish frigate]

Short film

[lavish frigate]

The way you phrase it makes it seem like it’s related to the Jurassic franchise but idk if that’s the case

[lunar copper]

it is

some of the logos on the side are a part of those dinosaur-control guys or whatever (you see them in jwe)
without mentioning in the bottom left its literally using the jurassic park font

[lavish frigate]

Eh nothing has been said about it from what I’ve heard

And also considering how the baba deinocheirus looks it doesn’t really follow the Jurassic designs seen in the past to me

Although this does indeed seem to be the DFW logo

[stiff osprey]

you'll need more than that to convince me that modern day Universal can make a good dinosaur design

[lavish frigate]

I quite like the theri and atrociraptors (the atroci designs really should have been JW canon deinonychus but that’s just my fanboyness )

[stiff osprey]

Atroci is okay, would've been better if it was smaller. But the only good Dominion design was the quetz

Despite all its unrealism that scene is great

[lavish frigate]

Quetzalcoatlus was definitely the best. Should’ve mentioned that. The only real inaccuracy is actually just size and some wing stuff I believe

[tranquil quartz]

The crickets were just crickets but kaiju so best model

[compact leaf]

at this point I kind of want the jurassic franchise to die if only so that I don't have to see more dinosaurs get their designs butchered

[stiff osprey]

Oh yeah the crickets were good I guess lol

[tranquil quartz]

I think dimetrodon was the worst
Maybe Giga tho

[lavish frigate]

I don’t want Jurassic to die. However I do want it to kinda just like….be a TV show or something? I just want it to make room for other dinosaur films and stuff

[tranquil quartz]

I think the worst model in all of Jurrassic Franchise is Nothosaurus though they massacred it

[stiff osprey]

In terms of accuracy Dimetrodon is probably the worst, but we don't see it very well in the scene, so it isn't as striking ig

Giga stands out more because it has a lot of screentime

I like Giga's behavior in the film though. He's either bullying Rexy or just being a goober

[tranquil quartz]

Or eating flaming crickets

[compact leaf]

I like that they included theri I just wish it wasn't a 1 to 1 replica of that one toy

[lavish frigate]

The only thing I don’t like about giga was that it was violently killed after being demonized the whole movie for doing absolutely nothing 💀

[tranquil quartz]

I kinda want the JP Ceratosaurus to return it was a decent model (well imo) and had a good colour scheme

[stiff osprey]

Most realistic predator behavior in the JP franchise (besides JP1 Rexy) award

[lavish frigate]

What about lost world Rex pair

[tranquil quartz]

I think those whales briefly seen with the Mosasaur were the most realistic predators

[lavish frigate]

Justice for the crow in JW 1 fr fr

[stiff osprey]

Maybe, but i don't think a real Tyrannosaur couple would wreck things around them randomly if their young disappeared. They can just make more

[tranquil quartz]

Most emotional dinosaur moment

[stiff osprey]

Mainly because irl T.rex wasn't raising a single huge baby, but like 20 tiny ones

[tranquil quartz]

Then they all grew up to become Nanotyrannus

Did the Mega Carchs do the same when it came to their offspring?

[compact leaf]

I don't know if we actually have much in the way of early development for the mega carchs

[tranquil quartz]

damm

[stiff osprey]

Yeah we dunno about mega carchs, but based on Allosaurus they likely had very tiny babies

Like two feet long at birth

[gray zealot]

it may not be accurate but i love their Giga and i will die on that hill

[stiff osprey]

I kinda get the people who like it? At least from some angles it's okay. But it'd be so much better if the hump was over the shoulder instead of the hip

[white matrix]

Oh. Itd be a good movie with an accurate duck, but a short would still be good. The duckling is very cute!

[clever sable]

Giga honestly has some pretty realistic behavior, he just has a very short territory fight where nobody is seriously injured, he just walks around and tries to eat something

[white matrix]

Yeah, he just tried to survive but was made to be seen as a villain and got unfairly killed :/ I hate JWE3 for that exactly, hated how realistic behaviour got turned into something bad as if random unjustified serial murders were the realistic behaviour making dinosaurs look like cold blooded killing machines and not animals.

[frosty anvil]

I actually liked the scene where his tail dragged on the ground for just a few frames. Very Godzilla-like
Think this was the exact scene where it fought a rex briefly without severe injury from either party

[frosty anvil]

Yes it was

[clever sable]

Theri and quetz both have very good designs imo, even if they are oversized

[frosty anvil]

The Quetzalcoatlus is still the only design (other than the Oviraptor (Citipati?)) from Dominion I really liked. Apparently the Giganotosaurus was originally going to be an Acrocanthosaurus, but this was scrapped

[gaunt raven]

The theri is pretty nice imo despite being inaccurate it still looks close enough that it could pass as a mostly accurate genetically modified monster

[stiff osprey]

Theri's only problem is the comically large cube head. But it's a pretty distracting problem

[white matrix]

cricket noises

[frosty anvil]

Yeah, therizino's head is the issue for the design, but i love the way the animal is used in the film.
Still would have liked to see terror birds in that forest though.

[gaunt raven]

Yeah the head is my least favorite part but it looks exactly like I would expect a “mostly accurate but scary monster” dino to look

[frosty anvil]

Too many movies decipt animals as movie monsters and not what they actually are - animals. So I'm not exactly upset that they pulled that bs.

Dissapointing, sure, but I expected it to happpen.

[white matrix]

They always did that, and it always hurt me

[gaunt raven]

The JP2 rexes are pretty good at doing natural animalistic things I think

[frosty anvil]

Though the giga death is literally a direct reference to both hybrid deaths in the previus films (I. rex got mobbed by two dinosaurs, Indoraptor got impaled)

Yea the JP2 rexes are the most natural-behaving animals in the entire series

[gaunt raven]

I personally think the JP/JW series stopped being good after JP3

[white matrix]

Ye

[frosty anvil]

Yeah definitely, but the first two jurassic world films are still somewhat decent in my eyes. Not as good as the OG trilogy but decent
There's definitely a few changes i'd make. (Especially for the raptors)

[white matrix]

Oh god, dont get me started on their raptors

[lavish frigate]

It’s actually giant concavenator fr fr

[tranquil quartz]

What if its just big Altispinax instead?

[gaunt raven]

The new raptors are so bad

[bright pine]

The one thing that made me like the Giga a little more is that AR promo they did in London where it was interacting with "trainers"

And looked like it was about to eat the random people standing in front of it

[gaunt raven]

Is this sizing accurate? I’d assume it is because I know deino is big but I’m not sure

[bright pine]

Looks ok to me

[gaunt raven]

Ok cool thanks

[white matrix]

It's a little upsized

Here, have a cursed image, it gets worse the longer you look at it

[frosty anvil]

As abhorrent as that trike drawing is i actually kinda love it lol

[white matrix]

Potatoceratops

[lavish frigate]

Mastodon is my favorite dinosaur

[lavish frigate]

(Me hearing this after rating my least favorite Jurassic movie a 7/10)

[clever sable]

I will never understand your movie opinions, I mean, I will respect them because they are just opinions but I don't understand them

[lavish frigate]

Ha! Jokes on you. I don’t understand them either!

But the three JW films are all good imo

[gray zealot]

i fully agree, ive noticed a teardrop-akin silhouette on Scott Hartman's Torvo, and if the giga took that to the extreme with the hump Id like it more

[gaunt raven]

💀

[lavish frigate]

I have bad opinions and I’m PROUD!

[gaunt raven]

I have good opinions and I’m proud

[steady rock]

what period was 66 mya - 24 mya?

[nocturne gazelle]

What's the size estimates (weight, height, length) for pachy and achillo?

[light oxide]

Pachy's around 410 kg, while Achillo, from what I heard, is around the same range.

I can go ahead and get the size comparisons real quick. Give me a moment--

[bright veldt]

Both are around 5m long and 500 kg

[sullen cairn]

500kg is way too big for achillo

[light oxide]

That's Utahraptor's range, correct?

[sullen cairn]

achillo's like 370kg tops iirc

utah's 5.2m and 470kg

[light oxide]

Ah. I see.

[nocturne gazelle]

So 370kg achillo, and 410kg pachy? Are those size charts good?

[sullen cairn]

370 might even be overshooting it

[light oxide]

Somewhat.

[nocturne gazelle]

And what about laten/stenonychosaurus

[sullen cairn]

falcon did stenony he might know

[light oxide]

If I recall, Stenonychosaurus was basically around the same weight as Deinonychus, correct?

[nocturne gazelle]

@frigid bloom Ping so you see this.

[sullen cairn]

i'll go look

[light oxide]

Both of those are still overshadowed by 850 kg Camptosaurus, around the average point, with 500 kg individuals and that one freakishly large Camptosaurus that was around 2000 kg.

[nocturne gazelle]

The chonk

[light oxide]

The next largest being around 1000 kg.

The largest one is a major outlier -- He was built different.

[sullen cairn]

brick's achillo is 330kg scaling with utah

achillo's ~70% utahraptor's mass

[light oxide]

Here is the holotype Camptosaurus (which is around 500 kg), with the largest one (the 2000 kg one) in the background. For reference.

[light oxide]

(Utah's bigger mainly because it was built more muscularly, stockier, and more in line with megatheropods, since it was essentially the apex predator of its ecosystem.)

[sullen cairn]

Alright pachy’s 500kg
Utah’s mostly bigger cause it’s longer (achillo weight is scaled from Utah)

[light oxide]

Wait -- I thought their range was from 370 kg to 450 kg, for pachy?

[sullen cairn]

Dempsey’s (I think) model ended up at 500kg

[light oxide]

There a picture of that model? I'm curious.

[sullen cairn]

Well the model made using his skeletal

[stiff osprey]

that skeletal is Dempsey's? no wonder i liked it

[sullen cairn]

nevermind its not

[bright veldt]

Why not? Last I checked it's basically just utah and utah is that size. Their lengths are the same too.

[light oxide]

Huh

So the Campto Holotype and Pachy were the same size. PoT dev win.

[sullen cairn]

500kg is utahraptor size
achillo is not utahraptor length

[bright veldt]

Since when?

[stiff osprey]

Achillo has a 50 cm femur, Utahraptor has a 56 cm one. Pretty big difference when you cube it to get the mass

[sullen cairn]

brick has an achillo skeletal based off utah

[stiff osprey]

big enough, in fact, that achillo is barely more than two thirds utah's weight lol

[sullen cairn]

if you want a big asian dromie there's always bissekty

[stiff osprey]

Cau and Mortimer:

[light oxide]

This is assuming, of course, that achillo had the same musculature as utah.

[sullen cairn]

achillo is pretty robust so its not unreasonable to scale em

[light oxide]

I see. Wasn't sure on achillo's muscularity, hence why I made that statement.

[sullen cairn]

i know mortimer still has ulughbeg as a carch but what did cau say

[stiff osprey]

that the pedal phalanx is from a therizinosaur (and someone else, i think mortimer, agreed)

so the 2 bones that could be a giant dromaeosaur are in question

[sullen cairn]

my heart is breaking

[light oxide]

The 2 bones of what dromaeosaur?

[sullen cairn]

bissekty has a dromaeosaur pedal phalange that scales to about 1000kg and ulughbegsaurus has been suggested to be a dromaesaur (its maxillary fragments scale to ~1000kg as well)

[light oxide]

Ah. Mkay.

[sullen cairn]

but if the pedal phalange isn't a dromaeosaur then ulugbeg being a dromaeosaur becomes far less parsimonious

especially when shaochilong exists

[stiff osprey]

if i had a nickel for every time material of multiple different taxa was mistaken for a giant dromaeosaur...

[light oxide]

. . . I would have 2 nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's strange that it happened twice.

[sullen cairn]

Lmao

utah-sized lewisville teeth still exist though

[white matrix]

how do you do this in pixlr?

tryna scale random's smilo skeletal with the largest arctodus specimens

[light osprey]

❔

[white matrix]

as in like a size comparison

[sullen cairn]

Copy paste the image, wand tool out the background, and erase everything else but the scale bar

[light oxide]

@deft sigil

Mate, we gotta problem.

I think that individual is trying to doxx other people's locations.

[sullen cairn]

This channel is certainly one of the channels of all time

[light osprey]

Yeah this is what my ❔ was for

[light oxide]

Ik

[light osprey]

Paleo-chat lore

[white matrix]

is the tool called wand select?

[sullen cairn]

Yup
You might have to play a round with the tolerance

you want a get rid of everything but the skeletal and the scalebar, and then duplicate and seperate the two

[white matrix]

sorta like this?

[sullen cairn]

yup
just wand the lower white bit and eras everything else

[sullen cairn]

from what I can tell largest stenony is ~3.5m and ~100kg

said stenony being previously latenavenatrix
apparently there's a larger 4.3m tibia from two medicine but i don't know if the two medicine material is assigned to stenony

i don't believe it is

[light osprey]

Precedent for the giant Prince Creek Troodontid I suppose

[light oxide]

Yep.

Troodon and Latenivenatrix merged into Stenonychosaurus, so I would assume so.

[sullen cairn]

that also means my scaling of albertavenator was right too

got it at something around 3.6m

[white matrix]

think, im getting somewhere

[sullen cairn]

now just duplicate the layer and get the scale and skeletal by themselves

[white matrix]

is it possible to make the square bigger or thats dependant on how big the image was originally

[sullen cairn]

albertavenator for reference

[sullen cairn]

if you want make the whole image larger make sure the skeletal itself isn't the background. If it is, just duplicate it and use the brush tool (500px box works best) to fill the background layer

then you can transform the image normally

[white matrix]

hm I see, and say how would I make it so its colored instead of the actual skeletal being shown (sorry for bothering)

[west coral]

wip morrison formation

[white matrix]

sort of like that ye ^

[west coral]

Alpha lock the layer and just go ham with the colouring

[light osprey]

Early Maastrichtian be wildin’

[light oxide]

Yes -- the Morrison Formation.

#JusticeForMorrisonFormation

[west coral]

45 meter baro goes hard

[light oxide]

Out of curiosity, what is that theropod in front of Camptosaurus?

[west coral]

What colour?

[light oxide]

Teal blue.

[west coral]

The Allosaurus himself

[sullen cairn]

680?

[west coral]

Yep

[sullen cairn]

Nice

[light oxide]

. . . . . . Eh

I think you can do the DINO 2560 with that Allo too.

Represent some individuality in sizes for Allosaurus, since they are notorious for having a LOT of that.

680 + DINO 2560 should do the trick, in my opinion.

[light osprey]

Any Ornitholestes skeletals?

[sullen cairn]

680 is allosaurus sp or something like that (though sometimes assigned to fragilis) so including jimmadseni and a smaller fragilis wouldn’t hurt

[sullen cairn]

Hartman

[light oxide]

Let me get the skeletal for DINO 2560 real quick for ya, PugMaster.

[west coral]

Should i use DINO 11541 for Jimmadseni?

[light oxide]

I present DINO 2560.

[sullen cairn]

For jimmadseni

[storm heron]

Really? may I see it?

[sullen cairn]

.

Frontal’s 4.6 cm

[chilly knot]

Set minimum contrast so the silhouette turns grey, select with magic tool and just fill your color (gimp)

[storm heron]

Huh, my bad, I should have scrolled up. Many thanks

[sullen cairn]

Scaled it last night for pugmaster but it would’ve been a lot quicker if i realized stenony had but frontal measurements

[storm heron]

Hmm, Albertavenator is larger than I thought

[sullen cairn]

Yeah it’s a tad larger than stenony

[stray wren]

Anyone have any good Iberodactylus skeletals (preferreably with a ventral view as well)

[sullen cairn]

between stenony, the two medicine taxon, prince creek teeth, and albertavenator there seems to be a decent continuity of 3.5 to almost 4.5m m troodontids in NA

[storm heron]

Hmm, yea there seems to be

[sullen cairn]

doubt there's a ventral out there

[stray wren]

it frustrates me to no end that people don't do ventral views when they do pterosaur skeletals

[sullen cairn]

i'd imagine one wouldn't be particularly inclined to make a ventral for an anterior rostral fragment

[light osprey]

Speaking of NA stuff, is there really attributable Pteranodontian material in the Hell Creek

[storm heron]

Its that complete? wow I am surprised, though you really should put a black silhoutte and black outline around the bones so we can actually see the skeletal in the white background

[west coral]

Added 2560, 11541, and Big AL 2

[sullen cairn]

Alright who’s shelling out $3500 to buy the mount of the thing

[west coral]

what mount of what thing

[sullen cairn]

Hell creek pteranodontid

[stray wren]

all things considered that's not a bad price

[sullen cairn]

It’s privately owned and we don’t know jack about it

[west coral]

This fella?

[stray wren]

That's like, 3 months pay for me

[sullen cairn]

And actual material is kinda sorta locked in a Floridian dungeon

[stray wren]

Nevermind I'm not paying a floridian

[sullen cairn]

Not to be confused with depalma’s dungeon also in Florida

Wait a minute

Depalma’s dungeon is in palm beach
You can’t even make this stuff up anymore

[stiff osprey]

That mount has the fingers facing the wrong side and wrong end of the wrist

Sensational

[sullen cairn]

Evidence for novel wing morphology in a latest Cretaceous Pteranodontian

Speak of the devil

[light osprey]

Mm yes what an incredible fossil

Any indication where it’s allegiances lie in Pteranodontia

[rose thorn]

Now do hell creek lambeosaur

[west coral]

hell creek giant oviraptorosaur

[compact leaf]

hell creek therizinosaur

[west coral]

hell creek spinosaur

[white matrix]

Montanaspinus

[pearl briar]

hii :3
unfrilled ur trike

[west coral]

That actually looks fairly alright

Some sort of deformity or something of the kin

[iron halo]

That does not look alright, what are you on

[light osprey]

Most definitely an animal that isn’t alright

[west coral]

Just shave him off and you have a fat hadrosaur

[nocturne gazelle]

Absolutely cursed

[west coral]

Atleast it’s not as bad as this

[light osprey]

At first I thought I was looking at a Dicreaosaurid

[storm heron]

It actually does look like Dicreaosaurus

Wait a minute, that tail does not belong to it

[steep needle]

lmao

[gaunt raven]

This gave me PTSD

I’m gonna have to explain to my therapist how that image traumatized me enough that I am experiencing PTSD, of course I’d have to get a therapist first but I’m willing to go to great lengths for people to understand the pain that brought me

[white matrix]

Then that therapist will need a therapist than that therapist of a therapist is gonna need a therapist~

[wary panther]

Damn, I got banned for a week and you guys were tyrannosaruid glazing without me?

Life isn't going great right now guys, it seem as if there is nothing I can do

[white matrix]

tbh I don’t think you can blame anyone for getting urself banned

[lavish frigate]

Paleo chats opinions on paleo accurate deinocheirus short film? or

[west coral]

Would it be a wise idea to add the Oklahoma giant brontosaurus to the Morrison chart

[heady thunder]

Very good

[lavish frigate]

Agreed

[wispy summit]

Very cool

Tbh i like this deinocheirus design more than i like php deinocheirus

[white matrix]

agree to disagree

[lavish frigate]

I think it’s more realistic with the amount of feathers

[gaunt pine]

Yeah

[lavish frigate]

Man I hope this doesn’t end up tied to the Jurassic franchise I don’t want ultra realistic duck fighting JP 1 90s rexy

[heady thunder]

It will

[lavish frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-lonely-alone-chandler-bing-gif-22422379

[exotic quest]

tbh it seems for now that the only thing shared with Jurassic is the font on the title and ofc the dinosaurs

[crude latch]

Brachytrachelopan correct?

[compact leaf]

that’s actually stegosaurus with the tail of a discraeosaurid photoshopped onto it

[crude latch]

Is it?

[compact leaf]

yeah have a close look at the head

[crude latch]

Oh shoot you’re right

[west coral]

added a few more sauropods

[light osprey]

Dear lord

[west coral]

im pretty sure that’s not even half of em

I still haven’t gotten to d. carnegii and the other 3 camarasaurus species

[bronze storm]

Names 😈

[west coral]

oh god

[lavish frigate]

This looks suspiciously like a Jurassic World dominion type thing but other than that I don’t see anything suggesting it’s JW

[white matrix]

Lillll guyy!!

[lavish frigate]

It’s so cute 🥰 (and realistic 🙌)

[white matrix]

Ye, im excited to see the full short

[dusky prairie]

I have a science question for the paleo nerds if you don’t mind.

[lavish frigate]

The only thing that could possibly be better is my dream of a series where prehistoric animals are in the modern world (not like dominion though with bugs and….more bugs )

[dusky prairie]

I’ve recently seen some depictions, artwork and internet sources saying camptosaurus could walk on all 4s and or run on 2 legs similar to lambeo and iggy.

And I’m thinking if that’s the case that would look super cool and unique on path of titans camtpo and really drive home the fact that it’s like an kangaroo and or the hadrosaur 1 slot.

[tough orbit]

[white matrix]

Hated the huge ass crickets in dominion and yeah, to see exctinct animals in the modern world would always be the top seller

[bronze storm]

I’m going to haunt you buddy ol pal.

[lavish frigate]

I didn’t hate the bugs I just wish they weren’t the focus. And yeah it would sell good wich would be the perfect opportunity to introduce REAL dinosaurs to the main stream culture

Pull an OG Jurassic park on them

[bright veldt]

Camptosaurus was a purely bipedal animal

[white matrix]

Yeah thats what i meant, sorry the brains mushy after work. Another karen

[dusky prairie]

Really?!?! I’ve seen stuff saying it could have walked quadrupedally is that out dated? Why couldn’t it have walked in all 4s? Not arguing just wanting to learn more.

[lavish frigate]

Sorry for your loss….of valuable time to a Karen

[white matrix]

Bro she butted in my job and was so entitled about it..... but I digress, cute hatchling duck

[lavish frigate]

Petition for Hatchling the series

[dusky prairie]

Does anybody know how flexible iguanodons wrists were? Like I know dinosaurs couldn’t pronate there hands like mammals I just wanted to know if iguanodons would be an exception given how weird there hand anatomy is.

[bright veldt]

Yeah, with more recent studies it’s been confirmed as a biped. Has to do with center of gravity afaik.

AFAIK it didn’t really need to be more flexible than what it already did was. They can still grab and feet on vegetation regardless.

[dusky prairie]

Oh ok then I’ll take your word for it. Kinda bumped about that as I would have liked to see semi quadrupedal campto.

[dusky prairie]

Do you have an answere for my question about iguanodons wrists flexibility?

[bright veldt]

I’ve never heard anything about them being inherently more flexible than other Dino’s if that means anything.

[dusky prairie]

Me neither but since Iguanodon is very strangely build as a quadruped I am thinking it’s wrists would have needed to be more flexible. Do you know anyone else who could maybe help answere my question? I’m doing an animation project on them so I want to know how much iguanodons could rotate and bend there wrists and hands for action sequences. Could they make there thumbs face fully forward or fully inward for example and how far back could they bend there hands.

[bright veldt]

I actually looked it up in another discord briefly. Apparently iguanodonts as a whole have fused wrists, so not really flexible at all.

[dusky prairie]

Oh really that makes sense as the skeletal reconstructions do not look like they could rotate. That leads me to another question if you don’t mind. Could they even move there wrists at all? Like specifically could they bend there wrists and or hands forward and back if you Canada get what I mean?

[dusky prairie]

And could they move there shoulders in a way to better position there thumbspikes?

[white matrix]

I want series on ittt

[rose thorn]

Fused wrists don’t really impact shoulder rotation. Their forefeet basically form a solid hoofed column with their thumb and pinkie pointing outwards. All the animal has to do to make the thumb an effective weapon is rear up and wing out it’s arms

[dusky prairie]

Make sense it could theoretically also just thrust its hands forward.

[rose thorn]

I.e

[dusky prairie]

What about flexibility in its wrists? Would Iguanodon have had its wrists completely immobile or could it have moved its wrist up and down or forward and back similar to this image?

[white matrix]

This ur model?

[rose thorn]

No, David Krentz

[dusky prairie]

Speaking of which how accurate is path of titans iguanodons model overall?

[lavish frigate]

A cool idea I had was a documentary set in the modern day but with dinosaurs. Like in areas bordering urban environments and stuff. It would be cool

[rose thorn]

Ehhhh 8.9/10, only some slight proportional changes that could be made to bring it to a 10

[dusky prairie]

Like what please get upset specific if you can?

Also What about flexibility in its wrists? Would Iguanodon have had its wrists completely immobile or could it have moved its wrist up and down or forward and back similar to this image?

[white matrix]

You said the same thing twice

[dusky prairie]

I did I wanted to make sure he saw the question.

[dusky prairie]

Like I’ve seen some Iguanodon recreations where the arms are shorter then the back legs so the back sort of slopes down towards the necks and I’ve seen others where the front legs are taller then the back legs and as a result the back slopes down towards the tail. Which depiction is more accurate? Path of titans Iguanodon seems level but slopes has shorter back front legs.

[white matrix]

Bro chill let them explain/cook, have patience

[dusky prairie]

Sorry… I’ve just had these questions for a long time and no one has really been able to answer them.

[white matrix]

It’ Alr just ask than wait, someone will eventually respond, pinging them multiple times for an answer will prolly just make them ignore you

[dusky prairie]

Yeah your probably right I just get excited. Iguanodon is my favourite dinosaur and I have so many questions about it and unlike t-rex my childhood favourite there doesn’t seem to be any easily accessible concrete answeres on basic things like posture.

[rose thorn]

Most notably, PoT’s ischium doesn’t point back far enough and the tail is a wee bit too meaty. The neck is a little short and the dip/hump over the sacrum is too pronounced, should be rounded out a bit. The neck could afford to have a more pronounced curve leading into the skull, but the head itself (on the defense model anyway, as balance/speed are based off Altirhinus’ nasal ridge) is fine

[heady thunder]

Im glad it doesnt have the rat tail, looks ugly

[elfin pulsar]

Damn iggy irl is uglier than I thought

[rose thorn]

Like I said, pretty minor things that you wouldn’t really pick apart without a skeletal beside it

[white matrix]

wdym irl iggy is a beauty

[scenic flame]

p sure the nasal ridge is only based off the disney dinosaurs movie

[elfin pulsar]

The tail looks malnourished on it haha

[dusky prairie]

So the balanced build is more accurate then the defence?

[rose thorn]

Which were based off Altirhinus which was considered a species of Iguanodon at the time

[scenic flame]

oh, never knew that

[light osprey]

Truly a model of all time. Looks like Iguanodon

[rose thorn]

PK’s Iggy is beauty

[white matrix]

imo now that looks ugly compared to Uguetos

[heady thunder]

Too much spikes, plus ugly tail

[dusky prairie]

So a few fallow up questions if you don’t mind. What subspecies build is the most accurate?

[heady thunder]

Probably bal or def

[rose thorn]

defense

[rose thorn]

Feature scales go hard. Ya’ll just haters.

[dusky prairie]

Not the balanced? Interesting? I always thought the Iguanodon skull l anatomy looked more similar to the balanced build. With the exception of the nose ridge.

[white matrix]

compared to this iggy? PKs is gone

[heady thunder]

Too many spikes, one row is enough

[dusky prairie]

Has the nose ridge thing been debunked or could Iguanodon have had them?

[compact leaf]

every pk animal is a beaut

[dusky prairie]

And also did Iguanodon most likely have a thicker tail or skinny tail?

[white matrix]

Skinny, you can look at randomdinos iggy skeletal for reference

[dusky prairie]

Would it be inaccurate to portray an iggy with a thicker tail Similar to path of titans?

[elfin pulsar]

I hate that iggy has a pencil tail 😔

[dusky prairie]

Does it actually?

[elfin pulsar]

Idk but judging by the skeletal and those recreations looks like it

[white matrix]

Not pencil thin but look at the tail base and end

[rose thorn]

A soft tissue comb or large scales could be there with at least some plausibility (though there are no such correlates on the snout to my knowledge, so that size wouldn’t be too impressive ). The skull itself however is flat

[dusky prairie]

Am I correct that the balanced iggy has a more accurate skull?

[heady thunder]

Isnt the pencil tail based on a mummy which had its soft tissues compressed cos of fossilisation?

[keen forum]

from what we have yeah, don has a skinny tail and his close relatives have skinny tails as well

[elfin pulsar]

Gross

[dusky prairie]

So much for the tail whip lol.

[white matrix]

Even than Dino’s irl probably weren’t doing said tail whipping like in PoT unless you’re like a stegosaur/ankylosaur/sauropod

[dusky prairie]

Actually probably still couldn’t have used it’s tail as a weapon just not as much as we thought.

Like this was so cool

[heady thunder]

Not with that stub thing they call a tail

[dusky prairie]

Believe!!!!

[heady thunder]

Oh I dont believe the stubby tail

[dusky prairie]

The base was very thick it’s and would have been very muscular

[sudden wind]

Best Iggy recon imo.

[white matrix]

Ugueto: 😭

[sudden wind]

I don't like Ugueto's head.

[rose thorn]

I’ve said defense twice

[dusky prairie]

So if you don’t mind would Iguanodon be able to move it’s wrists at all? Like specifically would it have been able to flex them forward and back?

[white matrix]

Fair enough

[dusky prairie]

Sorry I addressing the skull shape specifically.

[rose thorn]

Balance’s skull is fine, just take off the ridge. Defense is better for that reason in terms of conservative reconstruction

[dusky prairie]

Ok makes sense.

[sudden wind]

I don't think it was capable of doing this with the current data we have on other Iguanodontids like Camptosaurus (even though mostly bipedal unlike Iguanodon which could have been more of a quadrupe) or Ornithopods as a whole.

[dusky prairie]

I was also wondering if it would be inappropriate to have a slight point or hook at the tip of the top beak? In one of my drawings I drew I drew a sharp tip on I’m the beak and I’m wondering if that can be easily disputed.

[sudden wind]

I anyway sort of imagine Iggy doing more like sort of uppercuts or upward movements in order to defend itself. Like a reverse of what kangaroos do it.

[sudden wind]

it is very unlikely to have an hooked beak.

[dusky prairie]

The beak itself would have been Catarin overtop of the bone as I understand it so I thought it could have been atleast possible.

[elfin pulsar]

Catarin?

[dusky prairie]

I probably spelled that wrong or something the same stuff horns and nails are made of.

[elfin pulsar]

Oh you mean keratin?

[dusky prairie]

Probably lol.

[rose thorn]

Agree with Neeco that a hook shape is unlikely, but overgrown beaks happen in birds so some sort of malformed shape would be fine if this were a more lethargic animal

[sudden wind]

Keratin does not shape randomly. It usually is quite continuous with the bony core. Something like PK's is possibly the best interpretation there are.

God damn it I need to play PK 😭

Zoo simulators were my childhood

I shall also draw a new Iguanodon reconstruction.

[dusky prairie]

Basically I am wondering if it’s possible Because I would love to put a hook on the beak and have Iguanodon bite if I could.

[sudden wind]

I did this one soooo long ago

[dusky prairie]

Very cool!

[sudden wind]

And it is off in multiple aspects

[dusky prairie]

Still looks good.

[bright veldt]

A rule of thumb with iguanodonts seems to be that the more derived you go the more quad they get

[rose thorn]

Hook isn’t likely unless the animal chipped tf out of it

[dusky prairie]

My last few questions about Iguanodon I need answered.

1. Posture did its back lean forward or back Aka were it’s arms taller or shorter then it’s leg.

2. Thunbspike were they long like the balanced or speed iggy or short like the defence iggy

3. Were it’s wrists or hands completely immobile or could they move them forward abs back or inward on the 45° angle they were placed on.

4. Would Iguanodon been capable of galloping similar to a rhino or horse for lack of a better example. Or would they more likely have picked up there front limbs to run.

[rose thorn]

Yes. Iguanodon represents the pinnacle of such in just being, insanely robust

[bright veldt]

Yeah, I wouldn’t know exactly when it started but iggy onwards at least

[elfin pulsar]

I’d be really surprised if something the size of iggy could gallop

[sudden wind]

Spoiler : they could not

[light osprey]

Chadly mastication muscles

[dusky prairie]

Rhinos do it and they are huge and have relatively inflexible spines.

[elfin pulsar]

Ok but iggy isn’t a rhino

[dusky prairie]

I’m aware of that just using it as an example of a big animal that galloped.

Why it couldn’t gallop out of curiosity? Wrists couldn’t handle it? Spine not flexible enough

[rose thorn]

1. Look at the skeletal I had posted. The arms are shorter, but not by a very large margin
2. Thumb spikes were variable. We’ve found long and short thumbs that would have belonged to adult animals, so it’s up to you.
3. The hands were pretty much fused into a flesh glove so the digits outside of its pinkie were incredibly inflexible. In terms of wrist motion like the picture you keep posting, probably? It doesn’t look wrong but the range of motion of iguanodont wrists is something I haven’t really read upon
4. No. Quite simply, it’s too heavy and it’s spine too inflexible

[sudden wind]

Spine was not flexible enough. Idk as for the wrist.

I don't think any dinosaurs is suggested to be capable of gallop. Minus maybe the small ceratopsians (and yet I am quite skeptical and there is no actual basis on this statement).

[compact leaf]

you also don’t need to gallop to go particularly fast, biped running and the elephant shuffle were probably enough

[rose thorn]

Small stegosaurs also apparently

[sudden wind]

Kentrosaurus gameplay

[bright veldt]

It’s less the weight of the iguanodon and more that their spine flexibility wasn’t that great. Although don’t be mistaken, iguanodon can get like 5 tons. They’re larger than most think.

[sudden wind]

Even the small ones had quite columnar limbs and spine is still problematic.

[dusky prairie]

Thank you! I really appreciate that. Based on all you’ve said PKs Iguanodon is looking like the most accurate Iguanodon we have if that’s the case I’m going to go look at it’s animations more.

Oh I forgot to ask where there any apex predators that hunted iguanodon or iguanodon would have had to fend off? Can’t find anything on the internet about that.

[rose thorn]

Also this. If Iguanodon wanted to move faster, it can move unto its hind legs though maybe its bipedal locomotion wasn’t as efficient as hadrosaurs due to how rather short its tail is and how heavy it’s front half is

[bright veldt]

I’m curious about that too tbh cause iguanodon for it’s time was pretty stacked

It was several times larger than it’s local predators, plus the thumb spike.

Unless someone can inform me of predators larger than Neovenator that it coexisted with (aside from spinosaurids)

[dusky prairie]

That skinny tail thing really buggs me. It’s so weird all my life I’ve been shown iguanodons with big meaty tails they could have used for balance and defence and now I’m finding out it did crap all lol

[rose thorn]

Baryonyx is at the very least known to have scavenged on Iguanodon, though I don’t fully doubt it could kill a young one. Mind you though, that younger smaller prey animals commonly outnumber the giant skeletally mature adults. 4+ ton adults may have been safe, but adolescents were fair game

[bright veldt]

Eh unless it’s similar in size to said bary I don’t see it doing it

[sullen cairn]

the increasingly silly and wacky neovenator estimates

[dusky prairie]

It’s looking like if I want to make my vision of Iguanodon entertaining and athletic I’m going to have to take some artistic liberties.

[light osprey]

Why is it always Table who can find the worst of ways that animals have been scaled

[bright veldt]

Iguanodon is kind of a candidate for a more aggressive herbivore now that I think about it

It’s not universal, but herbivore aggression correlates with larger sizes, cause it’s harder for them to run away.

[light osprey]

I think this guy is the largest contemporary predator.

[dusky prairie]

Of Iguanodon?

[bright veldt]

Still only, like, a ton, versus the 3-5 ton iguanodon adults

[sullen cairn]

That’s the type

Unless larramendi really screwed up scaling a partial skeleton it could get up to 2000kg
I shall refrain from mentioning muh 10m phalange)

[compact leaf]

there’s also some seriously large brachiosaurids in the area but you can explain them with high infant mortality

[heady thunder]

High crimes on iggy babies

[sullen cairn]

Even folkes neo has an 8m guy

[bright veldt]

?

[sullen cairn]

Which is prolly like 1.5tish

[light osprey]

Comparatively diminutive apex predators aren’t really a big deal, seems like it happens pretty regularly biogeographically

[bright veldt]

Eh depends on where you look

I can only really think of early Cretaceous Europe and the time Utahraptor was an apex carnivore

[sullen cairn]

miwg 5470 is the other one in dan’s

[dusky prairie]

The kind of Iguanodon I initially fell in love with is basically Disneys dinosaur 2000/path of titans Iguanodon when it had the galloping animation. Like a dinosaur horse that had a strong tail it could use as a weapon and it could also stand up on its hind legs like a bear and swing it’s massiv muscular arms with huge sharp spikes on its wrist. That version of Iguanodon is not real and that kills me bro! I don’t suppose there us a real dinosaur that fits that description better lol:

[bright veldt]

Other ones? What skeletal are you referring to?

[sullen cairn]

His most recent
It’s a silhouette behind the actual skeletal

[bright veldt]

I haven’t seen it, got a pic?

[sullen cairn]

Here ya go

[bright veldt]

Good lord

[rose thorn]

I think it’s always been tbh. It’s a British knife horse with benchpresser arms. What’s not intimidating here

[sullen cairn]

These are the neo’s in ascending order of much I don’t trust em

[compact leaf]

the arms were still very much a weapon, the thing looks like a power lifter with a knife for a thumb

[sullen cairn]

Largest being a phalange so disregard that

[bright veldt]

I did the math right quick. The 8 meter neovenator is 1.8 tons. Carno-sized essentially.

[rose thorn]

The thumb is also very much solid, so it was definitely a weapon

[bright veldt]

Probably was mostly used on each other, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they also mauled predators when cornered.

[sullen cairn]

Iirc larramendi’s larger salerii is something like 2300kg

But if it’s 1.8t at 8m it’s prolly over 2.5t

[light osprey]

There’s more than that in the Mesozoic

[rose thorn]

And yet no punctures found on Iguanodon as far as I know

[bright veldt]

They don’t have to be in order to be considered to be used that way?

[dusky prairie]

Yeah but no more dino horse tail attacker. Do you think people would be mad if I took some artistic liberties with my animation project?

[dusky prairie]

I doughg they were aiming for areas on other iguanodons or predators that had solid bones they were probably puncturing necks and bellies.

[bright veldt]

Thescelosaurs have spurs on their arms for combat but we don’t have wounds on them from such conflicts. Just the intuition that they were probably used for that.

Not every fight results in wounding opponents down to the bone lol

[rose thorn]

Their thumbs are far more heavily built than bird spurs tbf, they’re more comparable to stegosaur tail spines in terms of “these are lethal asf, maybe let’s not fight with these”. In terms of intraspecies conflict i definitely see biting and relative shoving happening over straight up stabbings

[bright veldt]

They absolutely are not built like stegosaur spikes. I own a replica of one and the tip is actually fairly blunt. It would still create some significant wounds but I doubt a pair of several ton animals are going to cripple each other with them regularly.

[light osprey]

Are you suggesting silly spikes are for the Acheroraptors?

[sullen cairn]

oh boy a conversation about interesting yet ultimately unfalsifiable ideas on ecology

[light osprey]

Hehe

[dusky prairie]

In real life if the 2 dinosaurs ever met I could see even a fricken Tyrannosaurus looking at an adult Iguanodon and thinking nah imma go for the baby one or something without thumbspikes lol.

[keen forum]

yeah neo got pretty big with new estimates so it may have needed that size and spike

[bright veldt]

Iguanodon still routinely hit double the mass Tbf

[dusky prairie]

I’ve seen that lol fricken furry looking

[keen forum]

yeah thats true

its like das and gorgo with para

[sullen cairn]

para's only like 30% larger than das and gorgo

[alpine island]

I don't see why a Tyrannosaurus would be particularly wary of even an adult Iguanodon

[dusky prairie]

Maybe cause if I bite it it’s gunna shank me?!?!

[bright veldt]

The spike would be nasty but that’d kind of just be like an Edmonto but slightly scarier

[dusky prairie]

Maybe cuz if I bite it it’s gonna shank me before it dies?

[light osprey]

I think it depends where in North America you are how that relationship pans out

[rose thorn]

Mfw male animals regularly get carried away. I’m saying they are more comparable in their ability to cause deep punctures due to their rooted nature within the hand vs. chicken spurs that lacerate the flesh

[dusky prairie]

I wonder who would win in a fight pera or iggy.

[sullen cairn]

das and gorgo's para was only 4.5t

[bright veldt]

The biggest paras are like 12 tons so iggy isn’t doing too well

[sullen cairn]

the southwestern taxa got huge

[rose thorn]

If it’s the largest Parasaurolophus then Para

[light osprey]

Horseshoe Canyon might work better for implied similar relationships

[dusky prairie]

Yah but that shank though

[alpine island]

That's still a 12 ton beast vs a ~5 ton one, a 2.5x weight difference, the spike wouldn't feel pleasant but with a size gap that large between similarly ish built fauna... iggy doesn't really stand a chance

[keen forum]

depeneds yeah cuase das can be dwarfed by para

[sullen cairn]

with regalis? (average regalis is roughly around average annectans iirc right)

[rose thorn]

Tfw theres a tenatively assigned Parasaurolophus humerus with a puncture wound in it that showed signs of healing

[sullen cairn]

yeah but dasp and gorgo didn't live with the giant paras

[light osprey]

With Eotriceratops specifically in mind. But Regalis should still be larger than an average A. sarcophagus

[dusky prairie]

Puncture wound from what?

[rose thorn]

Potentially a centrosaur

[sullen cairn]

chad centrosaur

[rose thorn]

Or it could have fallen on a tree

[dusky prairie]

Yikes.

[sullen cairn]

i like the first option better

[dusky prairie]

Still though if Iguanodon knows where to stab those spikes it could be closer then people think but I’m bias lol.

[keen forum]

not a giant para but still a large para iirc the big brain case was a hypacr of some sorts?

[white matrix]

Can I dm u rq

[rose thorn]

Brachylophosaur

Hypacrosaurus didn’t coexist with Para in any locale I don’t think

[dusky prairie]

Would Iguanodon be able to use T’s tail like a whip similar to an Iguana or monitor lizard instead of like a big bat?

[sullen cairn]

i made a chart of the paras a couple days ago i'll bring it up

ft. giant gorgosaurus

[white matrix]

There’s a giant gorgosaurus? How big

[sullen cairn]

there's a 1.093m femur according to mortimer which would be ~3.8t

specimen has a messy history though

[white matrix]

Mind sending a source rq

[sullen cairn]

https://theropoddatabase.com/Tyrannosauroidea.html#Gorgosauruslibratus
the specimen got its catalogue number swapped with another gorgo which ended up being reassigned to das

[light osprey]

Sounds sus

[white matrix]

So what’s the math behind scaling a femur to get a weight estimate

[sullen cairn]

cube the difference in length with another femur and multiply by the weight of the known femur specimen

ie (1.093/1.04)^3 x whatever gorgo holotype weighs

[light osprey]

I can’t fight any pretty Albertosaur art 😢

[white matrix]

Square cube law?

[rose thorn]

The tail would still be something more like a bat due to the ossified tendons that isn’t to say that the tail couldn’t curl

[sullen cairn]

animals are 3d so yes

[light osprey]

This is pretty but the Albertoraurus is kind of ugly. So I just need this scenario but by Knuppe or something

[sullen cairn]

fred has such great art

[dusky prairie]

So to a certain extent it’s not unreasonable to imagine Iguanodon doing this in a situation like this? Or would this break/hurt its tail?

[keen forum]

sure

[heady thunder]

THE KING!

[keen forum]

ah okay

[white matrix]

That is hot

[rose thorn]

That’s fine

[keen forum]

whats the giant gorgo?

[sullen cairn]

this guy

[light osprey]

I think I’m just too simped for the PhP artstyle to like anything else. Waiting for season 3 💅

[rose thorn]

Wack

[keen forum]

huh never heard of that one before

[dusky prairie]

Perfect.

[compact leaf]

I want a season set earlier tbh, I know there's more that can be explored with the maastrichtian but if you go just slightly back things get real interesting

[sullen cairn]

meanwhile afaik largest dp das femur is 1m

[rose thorn]

Campanian

[sullen cairn]

is there any solid average iggy length?

[light osprey]

Nope, nothing else to explore, stay Maastrichtian

[dusky prairie]

30 ft

[sullen cairn]

what from

[dusky prairie]

Last I checked that’s just the standard answere on average.

[sullen cairn]

if that's the average then iggy's actually pretty close in size to larger neos

[rose thorn]

^5 ton Iggy is only based off like 2 specimens if I’m not mistaken

[sullen cairn]

i know random's skeletal is 5t and thats one of the larger ones

well there's a reason for the thumb then

[clever sable]

Oooh, oooh, I wanna see the average Edmonto and the largest Edmonto, it would be a very interesting comparison

[sullen cairn]

Iirc I made one a while back here

I forgot if the Edmonto was average size or not

[clever sable]

That's a uh, massive size difference

[sullen cairn]

Very wacky

[crude latch]

Wow

[bright veldt]

Updated the ol' ARK size chart to include Sauroposeidon, now that ARK Additions Brachiosaurus is getting renamed

[rose thorn]

Tfw there’s talk of splitting the giant Edmontosaurus

[dusky prairie]

This is a very rouph sketch what could be better about proportions, posture, etc. don’t hold anything back I need to know.

[bright veldt]

I'd also change the spino silhouette to the new one by randomdinos but I'm lucky to have even edited this. The project file size is getting so large I can barely work with it now.

[white matrix]

do you use gimp as well to make these?

[dusky prairie]

I’m just trying to really visualize the shape of a scientifically accurate Iguanodon.

[sullen cairn]

Iirc Hartman’s bary is prolly better than dan’s

[bright veldt]

Yes

[white matrix]

interesting how come

[bright veldt]

Oh, I actually don't use gimp. GIMP is how I get the silhouettes though. I use adobe illustrator.

[rose thorn]

Longer tail, deeper ischium, and longer neck

[sullen cairn]

Dan’s needs updating and Hartman’s is newer

[dusky prairie]

Ok what’s is the ischium though?

[bright veldt]

Will keep that in mind for the future

Illustrator's chugging now though so unless I can power through to change something major I'm not touching it or spino for now lol.

[rose thorn]

The backwards facing bone of the hip

Wrong reply lmao

[clever sable]

Ironically birds are in saurischia and not ornithischia

[dusky prairie]

Better?

I think I made the head neck too thick

[rose thorn]

Back needs to be higher

[dusky prairie]

Bigger arms and Legs maybe? Smaller head?

[dusky prairie]

Very good. My issue is the posture. It’s front leg is in a spot where it looks like the dinosaur is leaning on its back legs more then its front leg. Not a natural position. Also you have the hunk on its nose I thought we agreed was inaccurate. Could you tweek it a bit so it’s leaning on it’s front legs more?

[dusky prairie]

Not criticizing your artwork by the way as it’s clearly better then mine. Do you mind if I ask what platform you made that on?

[rose thorn]

I just use procreate, but that isn’t pertinent to paleo. I’m only saying that so the bots don’t

[dusky prairie]

What kind of pencil do you use my Apple Pencil always makes random shading smudges when I use pencil tools.

[rose thorn]

.

[dusky prairie]

Ok shoot sorry misread that.

[compact leaf]

I need to compare the wessex sauropods to this now

[white matrix]

@sullen cairn How can I align the scale bars in pixlr btw

[compact leaf]

there’s a line tool somewhere but I haven’t managed to find it, I usually just eyeball it or count pixels

[heady thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/baby-dont-hurt-me-mike-ohearn-jokester-joke-funny-gif-27699537

[sullen cairn]

Yeah just isolate the scale bar and check the pixel count

[white matrix]

is there certain setting that tells you the pixel count?

[sullen cairn]

It should be visible at the top

I don’t have my computer with me rn but it’s just below all the adjustment and setting things

[white matrix]

So to check the scale bar's pixel's imma guess I delete everything but the scale bar

[sullen cairn]

It’s easier to duplicate the layer and then delete everything around it

[steady rock]

how accurate is the deinocherius in the new up and coming movie?
https://twitter.com/HatchlingShort/status/1712815197000536383

[woeful falcon]

Looks good and its Digital Duck's handiwork so that's always a plus

[bright veldt]

Probably one of the best

The feathering is probably more spot on than PhP's

[steady rock]

it kinda looks skinny but besides that, its really cool

[sudden wind]

Average vs max ?

[sullen cairn]

This is average and max

[white matrix]

yk which it'd be?

[west coral]

ornithischians facts and figures when

[sullen cairn]

Duplicate this and fill up the bottom layer

[white matrix]

should we continue in dms, we might be flooding it unnecessarily it seems?

[west coral]

spaghetti

[crude latch]

What’s the premises of the movie, I legit only heard of it today

[sullen cairn]

This can’t be good for the soul can it

[crude latch]

What’s this for?

[clever sable]

Im guessing that's the Morrison

[west coral]

bingo

[west coral]

it’s therapeutic and mind bending at the same time

Trying to fit 20+ sauropods into one spot should be a form of torture

so should trying to scale 5 different species of camarasaurus

[west coral]

This is an example of what boredom does to a mf

[crude latch]

O H

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/relatable-relatable-meme-meme-tiktok-tik-tok-gif-5691818805681807444

[west coral]

too much time + too little other to do

such a combination can lead to greatness

[crude latch]

Lucky

[ruby patio]

Max Edmontosaurus may not be Edmontosaurus

[sullen cairn]

Ed in the image is scaled to x-rex

[crude latch]

X-Rex?

[sullen cairn]

Giant edmontosaurus tail

[ruby patio]

I am X-rex

[crude latch]

? H u H ?

[sullen cairn]

He is x-rex

[west coral]

we are x-rex

[white matrix]

Venom reference?

[crude latch]

W-what

😭

[west coral]

Possibly

Also, Albertosaurus GDI

[crude latch]

Teeny guy

[light osprey]

Would this be a particularly large Albertosaurus?

[sullen cairn]

2nd largest specimen

Largest being like 1% longer

[crude latch]

God Albertosaurus is smol