paleontology

[wary panther]

Real hot topic, what if Late Cretaceous America had a 2nd Apex Predator, besides all the other Tyrannosaurids

[royal mural]

would be cool

[wary panther]

Daktoraptor doesn't count if anyone is asking, it's pretty darn small compared to larger theropods that existed

[royal mural]

Might have been possible in appalachia n stuff

[woeful falcon]

A good point. Maybe some gigantic dryptosaurids

[wary panther]

Appalachia could been sadly taken over by the Tyrannosaurs 😔

[royal mural]

Could but also maybe descendants of european theropods

[wary panther]

As far as we know, as soon as Tyrannosaurus get to "cook" they take everything and abuse the mid sized pred system

[royal mural]

since it had a similar fauna i think

[wary panther]

Giganotosaurus had a mid sized predator living with it, guess what Rex did? Evolve to be that Mid sized pred

Thank god it got banned, bug abusing and stuff

[clever sable]

And even current reconstructions of Dakotaraptor may be too big because they guy that discovered it has a history of faking data and refuses to let people measure it even see the Dakotaraptor material

[undone parcel]

to this day i say juvie rexes would hunt us as food while adults would probably rarely eat us

[wary panther]

Can't believe Tyrannosaurus wanted to be the new big theropod of it's time by taking every niche

[royal mural]

Im still thinking bout that island im sure something unique would have evolved there if it didnt die

[wary panther]

We aren't getting skull island brah

[royal mural]

but im not even sure if it even existed bc it get portrayed so diff on many maps

[royal mural]

nah but i hope a unique fauna or smth

[wary panther]

Not possible brah, Some invasive species ( humans) probs wiped them out

[royal mural]

what

It was literally isolated from mid triassic to mid cretaceous (if that map was true)

[wary panther]

Oh, I think we were talking about some theory or somethin

[royal mural]

yes im talking ab southern alaska

[wary panther]

But as far as we know, any non avian dinosaur would have got wiped off the map

[royal mural]

Bruh i said it lasted till mid cretaceous im not saying they survived till today

[wary panther]

Oh, cool

Damn this reminds me of the hollow earth theory, I thought it was fake (it is) but I thought it was movie fake

[light osprey]

Cladograms on their way to banish them to Unenlagiinae 🗣️

[wary panther]

Wait, NO DAKOTORAPTOR???@!!!!!?!?!?

[compact leaf]

I love it when things get banished to unenlagiinae

[wary panther]

Another hot topic, Dromaeosaurs couldn't pounce and would instead latch at the neck

[tranquil quartz]

I mean its not even a hot topic

[wary panther]

I once remember my turkey that got attacked my a young falcon, the mass difference was probs 10 pounds

the falcon legit latched it talons to its head, it would have died had I not stepped in

[undone parcel]

off topic question, Paraceratherium biome/ flora, what would it be or would it look like

[nocturne gazelle]

I want achillos pounce to work like this and the smaller raptors have more of a "traditional" latch. Achillo could be a vertical ambusher getting bonuses while jumping or falling onto prey. Leopard playstyle fr fr. The smaller raptors could be more endurance based.

[compact leaf]

it covered a pretty wide geographic area but it seems like there’s a general trend towards it inhabiting more dry environments, some leaning towards deserts others just try temperate

[undone parcel]

thank you..planning a para screenshot in pk so this will help

[covert lintel]

being able to latch on wouldn't really make it unable to pounce, no?

[light osprey]

Dakotaraptor still, but not at all a Dromaeosaurine. Or so some say

[vocal breach]

So essentially, achillo is a leopard, Dakota (or at least what I think is dakota) is a lion/wild dog (pursuit), and Utah is a tiger/bear (ambush)

[undone parcel]

depending if dakota is or is not a Unelaagine

[vocal breach]

I have no idea what that means

[nocturne gazelle]

I was speaking mostly in relation to game mechanics. But the closest comparison irl for raptors does seem to be large predatory cats.

[vocal breach]

What is an “Unelaagine”

[undone parcel]

Unenlagiinae, most famous is Austroraptor of PHP 2 which grew rouhly 20ish feet and was more then likley a Spinosaur convergent

infamously may or may not contain pyroraptor

[vocal breach]

YOU WHAT

[undone parcel]

but Unenlagiines are like Abelisaurs where they are very Southern hemisphere based but a few may have cropped up in the north

[vocal breach]

HUH, SPINOSAUR CONVERGENT

[undone parcel]

bruh never watched Prehistoric planet 2

[vocal breach]

Hollup explain the lore

I need to know

[clever sable]

All of the big guys were likely ambush predators iirc

[compact leaf]

austroraptor and a few other unenlagiines have some adaptations suggesting they ate fish

[undone parcel]

credit Fredthe Dinosaurman/Fred Weirum

[vocal breach]

Some more reliant on ambush then others I assume

[nocturne gazelle]

Common Fred W

[vocal breach]

But I’m still confused by what he means “spinosaur convergent” like wtf

[undone parcel]

cause they fished not that hard

[clever sable]

They were heavily built but also were likely not good pursuit predators implying ambushing

[undone parcel]

also spinosaur like heads

[vocal breach]

I’d assume Dakota would be better at pursuit than Utah because of its slimmer build

[undone parcel]

again this depends on the current Unenlagiine Dakota theory

[clever sable]

We got no clue if it had a slimmer build because we got no clue where it's placed

[vocal breach]

Just say they fished, anything including “spinosaur” will make me piss myself

[vocal breach]

But if it was

[clever sable]

I mean, maybe, the legs also play a big part in this, if the legs are relatively short and sticky it likely wouldn't be a good pursuit predator

[undone parcel]

classic legbone length thing

[clever sable]

This is utahraptor, notice the relatively short legs

[vocal breach]

This is what I currently go by, until new Dakota material comes along or some new study is released imma follow this

[undone parcel]

notice how it will kick your insides into outsides

[vocal breach]

Dakota has a slimmer build than Utah

[clever sable]

That's the Wikipedia size comparison which are known for not being the best

[undone parcel]

i dont trust any current achillo depiction

[vocal breach]

I don’t know any better ones unless you would like to provide

[clever sable]

Also in that depiction it is shown with shortish legs

[undone parcel]

praying for achillo to get a better description

[nocturne gazelle]

Cya in 5-10 years

[light osprey]

Theropods with conical teeth

[clever sable]

Here are a couple, but once again this slender build is based on it's placement and some material that likely has been incorrectly measured as to provide a bigger size and it's a chimera with a turtle

[undone parcel]

if i could wait 10ish years for the Turkana Grits Giant Abelisaur to bescribed i can wait 10 more for achillo to be described properly

[light osprey]

Nah those are good, they used Scott Hartman’s skeletal

[bright veldt]

This is implying Dakotaraptor exists, which it doesn’t

[nocturne gazelle]

Rip dakota

[undone parcel]

it exists it just depends if it exists as we know it currently

[clever sable]

I mean, it might, it's dubious but not completely invalid, although if it is valid our current reconstructions are likely very off

[bright veldt]

At best it’s a dubious taxa that’ll never see the light of day and at worst it’s just a large acheroraptor

[vocal breach]

How does that happen

[bright veldt]

It’s pretty useless to take it seriously imo

[clever sable]

The situation surrounding it's description/discovery is very suspicious given that the guy who discovered it has a history of faking significant data and he refuses to let anyone even see the Dakotaraptor material

[light osprey]

Potentially can be a cool taxon if it ever sees the light of reexamination

[undone parcel]

is Dakota the turtle that supposedly in the chimeara, is it synonmous wioth Anzu, is it synonmous with Acheroraptor, is it actually a valid taxa, or is it a Unenlagiine

[clever sable]

And it's a chimera

[tough parcel]

How I sleep knowing Dakotaraptor is real 😴

[bright veldt]

When the person discovered it is a horrible person that’s been exposed for lying about the information in his studies while also refusing to let anyone else outside his little circle see the remains, you get a taxa that probably is full of bs

[light osprey]

Oh it’s real? Then what is it huh 💅

[heady thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/sleep-time-gif-25989081

[tough parcel]

A spinosaur

[clever sable]

My guess is that it exists but is likely much smaller than we thought and likely looks nothing like we thought

[undone parcel]

never forget Mesozoica revealing it to early before scamming us all

[light osprey]

Don’t be silly, that’s Montanaspinus

[undone parcel]

people laugh at montanaspinus but i fully beleive at least 1 genus of spinosaur made it NA

[clever sable]

Oh yeah, and iirc it might not even be a dromeosaur or something like that

[bright veldt]

Eh, unless it’s some vagrant that crossed the ocean

[tough parcel]

(They did, there was a paper on it)

[bright veldt]

The reason we don’t see NA spinosaurs is cause NA was isolated for literally their entire evolution

[tough parcel]

Oh but the paper never saw the light of day, it was rejected and the authors (iirc Naish was among them) gave up

[heady thunder]

Why was it rejected?

[undone parcel]

so we have a spinosaur, a supposed Hell Creek Therizinosaurus based off a toe bone, a NA Gigantoraptor and a NA Deinocheirid nearing Deinocheirus size......am i right so far..

[tough parcel]

Never told us, they just said it was rejected and they gave up

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/blinking-eyes-white-guy-blinking-meme-what-huh-gif-26334322

[sullen cairn]

paxaneri sucks

[heady thunder]

They can reject papers?

[bright veldt]

That’s how it publishing studies works

It might never get past the peer review and public release phase

[light osprey]

So, none of the analyses held up

[compact leaf]

the spinosaur is news to me but yeah, there's also a cedar mountain stegosaurid known from trackways

[compact leaf]

my worldview was just shaken, do we at least know what material they were basing it off?

[light osprey]

I feel like all these giant taxon would’ve been discovered with substantial material in deposits like the Hell Creek

[tough parcel]

Teeth! :D

[undone parcel]

then again edmontosaurus isnt that common right?

[compact leaf]

oh joy, teeth

[tough parcel]

Impossible to know population spread from fossil records due to fossilization bias

[clever sable]

Judging how common something is by the number of fossils we have isn't a good idea

[undone parcel]

at least compared to trike and rex we dont find as many fossils i mean

[compact leaf]

I guess at least spinosaurid teeth are more diagnostic than others, you can tell sauropods apart from certain parts of the teeth pretty easily as well

[light osprey]

We have a butload of specimens, idk how it’s reflective of the in life populations but it’s a very common thing to find

[clever sable]

Not a good way to judge if it was common or not

[tough parcel]

If we judged that way, Rex would be the most populous animal in HC

[undone parcel]

i didnt mean population i mean as a fossil it isnt as common as thew other big ones

[light osprey]

Erm Triceratops has left the chat

[tough parcel]

I think rex has more specimens than Trike

[heady thunder]

Rex W.

[undone parcel]

then you have Anky and Denversaurus which..just..you hardly ever find

[clever sable]

Let's estimate sizes based on scale size

[compact leaf]

big animals don't always fossilize well at all, look at sauropods they're huge but the fossilize terribly because of it

[light osprey]

Then what the heck is that graph based on?

[clever sable]

Speaking of rare fossils, how the hell do we have a megalodon vertebrae?????? Shouldn't that be impossible?????

[undone parcel]

isnt it suggested that the ankylosaurs lived in a different part of hell creek which probably had less chance of fossilizing?

[compact leaf]

I don't mean to drill you for information here but do we know where they're from and what approximate time?

big paleo wants to hide the north american spinosaurids from us, and I'll bet they're hiding that elrhaz brachiosaurid paper from me too

[undone parcel]

i mean dont we have some decent shark material before this

[tough parcel]

Oh I misremembered, I thought rex had the mega slice

[clever sable]

The Erlhaz formation is super underrated, its super unique and it has some of the coolest prehistoric animals in general

[tough parcel]

Nope, just that there were possible NA spinosaurid toofs that were never published

[light osprey]

Silly goose, I’m the smart one 👹

Cenomanian Spinosaur from NA?

[undone parcel]

i doubt spinosaurs wouldve lasted very long in NA considering all the other things here

[light osprey]

From the Cenomanian? I can hardly think of any

[undone parcel]

cenomanian...uhh

[light osprey]

I think some Cedar Mountain layers might be dated back then

[undone parcel]

Siats was at the very end..94

yea cedar mountain ends at 94 mya

[wary panther]

Guys, I got nothing to do, I think Im going to attempt to clone dinosaurs

[undone parcel]

make sure you feed bad people to them to fix our problems

[wary panther]

Ok, understood

I got chickens so, I'm closer then most people are

But what I don't have is a rooster for fertilization, which I might be able to fix with new chickens

But what I'm think is, breaking down a dinosaur bone into dust, and use the same procces used to get dna from meat/plants from the bone. Instead of trying to fill in the gaps, I would simply mix it with Rooster.... well you know and insert it in the chicken.

I could also mix it with any known reptitlian, and I'd keep trying till I could find a match

[compact leaf]

one problem, we can’t get dinosaur dna yet

[wary panther]

😠

I should test to see if Dna is even altered even when mixed with... you know

[compact leaf]

I say yet because there’s some really weird developments occurring in molecular paleontology, but we can’t get it in the traditional way no matter what

[wary panther]

Don't worry guys, I'll find some way to make a dinosaur

[undone parcel]

pretty sure we only know one t.rexes gender conclusivly too.. B-Rex

[clever sable]

We Already have dinosaurs today

[wary panther]

I meant non avian dinosaurs

[ancient crystal]

Whatever happened to that T. rex soft tissue?

[wary panther]

Government probs hid it, if its soft tissue we shouldn't get clones but we should be able to use something with it

But if I can't get dna, I have to find out what I can get

wait

I'm going to actually try that, grinding up bone to see if I can get anything out of it

Im getting my chicken rex if its the last thing I do

[clever sable]

The "soft tissue" that was found isn't actually soft tissue, it would have 0 viable DNA

[undone parcel]

snd dont grind up fossils if you value any form of respect in paleo

[wary panther]

Shoot, what an actual shame

[clever sable]

No DNA would be viable from that long ago, DNA doesn't last super long

[wary panther]

Guys Im not grinding up dino bones, Ill find some reptile or something

[undone parcel]

...and or parasites/parasitical infections

[wary panther]

Im finding some way to add longer tails on my chickens, I can barely see their tail, I'm also getting a jaw on them, and making them have longer fibula someway somehow

[tough parcel]

Bruh what, they deleted it 😔 this is so sad guys

[deft sigil]

This channel is for educational purposes. Please do not post off-topic subjects or troll in here. Refer to all our pinned guidelines in every channel you plan to use.

[wary panther]

Heed my words paleo chat, I will turn Avian dinosaurs back to Non Avian someway somehow, believe it

[tough parcel]

This is SO sad guys 😔

But afaik, you'd need genetic engineering to get chickens with tails and teeth

[light osprey]

For once, good moderation

[wary panther]

Someone tried that, Guess what? They killed the thing, Because "we can't play god"

[tough parcel]

Oh idk the circumstances of dinosaur genetics, but the embryos tend to not be viable afaik

[undone parcel]

probably cause those genes turned off for a reason

[light osprey]

No such thing as cloning non-avian dinosaurs, you can genetically modify Avalian anatomy, but that’s inhumane, probably

[tough parcel]

(The leading theory is it makes a faster incubation time/reduced flight load)

[woeful falcon]

I would agree to it being inhumane

[undone parcel]

yes cause a chicken needs all the weight to fly

[wary panther]

Humans being inhumane? I wonder where I haven't seen that

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/the-universe-tim-and-eric-mind-blown-mind-blown-meme-mind-explosion-mind-explosion-meme-gif-18002878

[wary panther]

Lets not talk about how we genetically engineered chickens to become fatter only to be crushed by their own weight

[woeful falcon]

Lets talk about literally anything else

[clever sable]

How accurate is this taco

[wary panther]

100 percent accurate

[tough parcel]

I hate the head so much, it's so bad-looking and there's evidence for cheeks too (in ornithischians in general)

[wary panther]

Wdym? Taco looks good

[woeful falcon]

No? It is quality you're just jealous

[undone parcel]

i was gonna say theres like 16+ species to pull from and each one differs

[tough parcel]

I am crying (sobbing)

[wary panther]

Word🗣️

[undone parcel]

i just know P. sibiricus is best species

[wary panther]

But seriously though, this thing would act similar to modern day pigs

[tough parcel]

(Probably not, ceratopsians are pretty heavily herbivorous)

[undone parcel]

no this thing would be hateful and just terrible

[wary panther]

I wouldn't say that for sure

[tough parcel]

I would say that for sure considering the isotopes say they do

[undone parcel]

ceratopsians, especially small ones definitely would assault you and take fingers with their big beaks

[clever sable]

Tooth isotopes moment

[light osprey]

Gross

[tough parcel]

In defense (especially the hornless basal forms), I could see biting being a large component in fighting, but I don't see them as omnivorous in the slightest

[calm agate]

Grosser when you realise that the horns on the cheeks aren't horns but essentially fingernails and that this applies far beyond just Psittacosaurus

[undone parcel]

i mean as a rulle im pretty sure most herbivores suppliment

[wary panther]

Darn, I swore I saw someone talk about herbivores needing meat from time to time

[light osprey]

Nah that’s fine, this one just looks gross

[wary junco]

This is based on Psittacosaurus sp. SMF R 4970 using the soft tissue that was preserved on the specimen, even down to scale type... what was preserved is what was reconstructed.

[clever sable]

Most herbivores eat meat from time to time but it's far from a regular part of their diet

[tough parcel]

That doesn't make them "boar-like" or "omnivorous", when people say that, they're thinking of the deer eating a baby bird

[calm agate]

It is however accurate to the specimen, Psittaco ugly little man, includes scale types not on the other reconstructions either since they were only shown in this paper

[tough parcel]

But...it's crushed flat, you can't get a good cheek reconstruction from it?

[undone parcel]

i do stand by small ones just being horrible devil creatures with Napoleon complexes

[wary panther]

Plant fossils:

[tough parcel]

??? Plants aren't exactly the most 3D of things, so when they're crushed, not a lot of information is lost

[light osprey]

Refuse to believe, I will live in blissful ignorance appreciating the earlier physical model

[clever sable]

It's the eyes that makes the taco look kinda weird to me

[woeful falcon]

Clearly you haven't seen a 4th dimensional plant before

[tough parcel]

True and real...

[wary panther]

I wouldn't say that, there are a lot of plants out there with a robustness we wouldn't be able to find from fossils

[undone parcel]

then theres Udano...that...that shouldnt exist and its existence scares me

[tough parcel]

But most plant fossils are pollen and leaves, things that aren't exactly known for severe need to be uncrushed

[calm agate]

The skull is crushed upside down so seeing the cheeks is effectively impossible even with how good the specimen is, there are sadly limits. We opted with the conservative approach as cheeks aren't required at this point in Ceratopsian evolution to actually consume food, later down the line? 100% yeah probably would need them.

[tough parcel]

Oh were they not chewing in Psittaco?

[undone parcel]

no thats scarier

[wary panther]

Eyes are kinda crazy

[deft sigil]

Please avoid less serious topics in this channel. Make sure you read the pinned messages in all channels you plan to use. This channel is for educational purposes.

[light osprey]

Slowly coming back to the goat

[calm agate]

Probably not, Ceratopsians as a whole aren't really chewing much if at all to be fair, hence why cheekless recons of them and Pachycephalosaurs are more prevalent than Hadrosauroids

[tough parcel]

Hm

[clever sable]

Could a triceratops bite a human in half

[wary panther]

guys

[undone parcel]

at most probaly a arm'

[wary junco]

unfortunately nature seldom cares for what is most aesthetically pleasing 😛 the focus was how much data we could incorporate into this reconstruction, which includes a lot of new analysis of scale types and pigmentation that hadn't been looked at before... it was enough for the authors of the paper to approve it at last

[light osprey]

It appears you missed the theme of my message, blissful ignorance is a specific term

[wary junco]

oh my bad, I get what you're saying now

[calm agate]

me when I look at you through my seeing-dents

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/animated-very-nice-good-text-gif-15305311

[undone parcel]

.....its like a ball python..adorably squishy lookin

[wary panther]

Hope the mods don't see it as a joke

[calm agate]

Considering we made the reconstruction they shouldn't, I also did want to show the silly seeing-dents this animal has they're wonderful and stupid

[wary junco]

I used to like psittacosaurus back in the day, then my eyes were opened to how horrific it actually is

[wary panther]

its still somewhat............ cute

[wary junco]

it's the jugal horns being nails that did it for me

[clever sable]

It's still cute if you adjust the eyes

[undone parcel]

the nose pad lookin thing...possible evidence as beginning of horn evolution or possible head butting/shoving

[light osprey]

Real though, what happened to its big patagia

[wary panther]

Guys Idk what your talking about, Taco is a very cute animal (trust):0

[kindred night]

Still there but pigment analysis shows it's more countershaded and less obvious.

[wary panther]

on a related note im sure it could bite you're finger off though

[light osprey]

So I’m optically tricking myself with the colouration of it

[calm agate]

What's interesting is seeing it front-on you really see why it has the dents, because these... proto-crests? are really just in the way if the animal were to look straight ahead

[undone parcel]

mild eye blocking

[wary panther]

Binocular Vison moment?

[wary junco]

they're still there, just less extensive than some people portray them (but this is the extent on the actual specimen)

[light osprey]

Could this be degradation though on the specimen itself?

[wary panther]

That fern looks, really modern. Crazy how much it didn't evolve

[undone parcel]

does..P.sibiricus have the biggest juguals..i think it does...thats the only reason its my favorite

[calm agate]

I believe so, this also means it's got the longest face-finger-nails which is wonderful, we love our putrid little men

[wary panther]

Wait, isn't there a specimen that's "yk" is preserved?

[undone parcel]

cloaca?

[kindred night]

Yes

[wary panther]

Yeah that

[calm agate]

Yup that's this specimen, you can see in the image Okeanos posted the pads this individual has

[undone parcel]

i vividly remember that day

[wary panther]

I might get banned for this but, do we know how big it was?

[undone parcel]

my therapists were questioning me why i interrrupted the session for this

[calm agate]

I believe Christoff thinks they're scent glands, I personally disagree and think they're a hemipenal bulge which you see on a lot of male reptiles and even crocs

[wary panther]

Were they as large as other animals that have them? Such as birds

I would assume that they were no larger then golf balls

[undone parcel]

i mean my leopard gecko has the bumbs but their..small so probably not that large

[wary panther]

Man paleo chat just got a little wild

[undone parcel]

why? itsa science

[wary panther]

Ahh your right

If we were simply willing to ask any questions and do any expirment, we would have answers much quicker

[calm agate]

Happy to fill in any questions on the recon in general for thoes that have them

[wary panther]

On a unrelated note, I've been arguing with some who thinks Giga beats Rex 60 percent of the time

the thing spanned more then 80 comments 💀

[undone parcel]

is this just a model you guys made or is in on like a roster just curious

[tough parcel]

It's a model they made for the paper AFAIK

[undone parcel]

ahh ok just curious

[wary junco]

Yeah we were approached by the authors to create a reconstruction for the press release for the two papers

[wary panther]

Nice

[calm agate]

Yup it's for the paper, the individual itself is a juvenile so it'd be inappropriate for a mod either way

[undone parcel]

fair..would the species..be one of the bigger ones..

[wary panther]

Anyone know where it was found?

[clever sable]

AvA is really dumb imo, unless it's stuff that actually happened like sucho VS sarco or trike VS rex

[undone parcel]

i think it was...bought or something, i dont think we know locality or formation

[calm agate]

It's either P.lujiatunensis or P.houi, both of which don't get much bigger than around 2-2.5m so on the smaller side

[wary panther]

Sarco wins 80 in a confrontation that's not about killing

[light osprey]

End the 80 comment discussion with, 95mya vs. 66mya

[wary panther]

Can't, I'm to much of a keyboard warrior for that

Never going to let my favorite theropod lose to another, got to keep that awsomebro energy up 🗣️

[clever sable]

Ew awesomebro

[undone parcel]

.....now...whyd you gotta admit that

[wary panther]

I'm just joking, I love my theropods fat and bulky with lips

[light osprey]

To be perfectly honest the JFD and Nicholls model look like pretty similar interpretations of the specimen, so I don’t think the differences between them are a big deal

[clever sable]

Test: does the rex in prehistoric planet have a realistic amount of soft tissue

[undone parcel]

look theres 2 kinds of Awesomebro...1 is the JW fanboy who hates the progression of science and thinks t.rex is either a stupid animal or immortal in fight..and the 2nd is a "sane awesomebro" who likes the JW movies or whatever but can admit or acknowledge all the flaws and just loves them as dinosaur movies

[undone parcel]

too this i respond people with actual PHDs and study tyrannosaurs like it so i like it

[light osprey]

No one knows

[calm agate]

Devil is in the details really, overall the original reconstruction is fine but it's missing most of the scale variation, the umbilicus and the jugal nails. Not its fault at all just science marching onwards and new methods of looking finding new things. I'm sure our recon will be outdated in a similar manner next time Christophe and co take a look at the specimen.

[light osprey]

Nicholls has keratinisation on the Jugal horns I think

[calm agate]

Yup he's got full horns on the under and upper side whereas the actual specimen shows the underside being covered in flesh with the keratin growing in a sheet on the upper surface creating the fingernail comparison

[light osprey]

I see

[undone parcel]

would..Udanoceratops be a terrible animal in general cause it probabaly have napoleon complex like smaller ceratopsians but its like mini cooper sized and definitely could do damage and de-toe Tarbo

[wary panther]

no

But it doesn't bother me, Rex is better fatter then Jp-er

Also, it may be huge, but not impossible for a theropod, only theropod being Rex though, and it would have to be the abosolute largest

Jesus I keep forgetting how big megatheropods are, just saw a diagram of them compared to elephants

Hello? Anyone in paleo chat? No?

[light osprey]

I’m here , to say, the Tyrannosaurus is perfectly plausible in most respects, with some very minor anatomical problems to the model itself

[clever sable]

Uhhhhh, giganotosaurus skeletal

[wary panther]

Uhhhhhhh, wouldn't want to be a 10-ton sauropod, am I right?

[undone parcel]

around there

[clever sable]

Giga could probably hunt sauropods larger than 10 tonnes and it did live with a decently large sauropod

[wary panther]

That was the joke, that giganotosaurus could hunt 10-ton sauropods

[undone parcel]

there was Andesaurus and another giant

[clever sable]

Oh definitely

[light osprey]

Me, I was the other giant

[clever sable]

Giga is my third favorite dinosaur, my favorite is acro and my second is rex

[wary panther]

Rex is my first, Spinosaurus 2nd, Giga -1, cause Its a mood

Just thinking about Giganotosaurus and how it evolved to strip meat off bones will never not be cool

Rex is meh, advance theropod yes, but only real paleo nerds know the og design

[clever sable]

Some cool rex Paleo art I found

[wary panther]

I think I got a good one I found

it was a rex eating a pachy

[clever sable]

Giganotosaurus Paleo art

[wary panther]

god you're getting all the good art, I can't even find one😔

[deft sigil]

please make sure to credit images if you are posting paleo art

[wary panther]

Lol

[bright veldt]

?? Since when was this a rule. Palaeoart has been a regular tool in discussion during this channel's lifespan and this is the first time that this has been an issue. I'm not against it but mind the inconsistency.

[wary panther]

Crediting is crazy

[clever sable]

Ok

[wary panther]

Didn't we post paleo art without crediting?

I posted the franoys model without crediting that guy

Ragh

[clever sable]

There are lots of inconsistencies when it comes to how rules are enforced tbh

[wary panther]

Credit is at the bottom mods, please don't take it down

[sullen cairn]

From now on we should cite every statement we ever make on anything including a link to a pdf or at least doi

[bright veldt]

lmao

[light osprey]

https://obscuredinosaurfacts.com/profile/2022/06/08/tarbo.html art with link, to keep those pesky mods away

[wary panther]

We should also state where the specimen came from and when it was found 🤓

[heady thunder]

Theyve only started enforcing the credit the artist rule recently, idk why, but they did.

[clever sable]

Getting off topic though, so uhhhh, what's everyone's least favorite dinosaur? My least favorite is probably spinosaurus, it's cool but all the debates surrounding it make me hate it

[bright veldt]

Same

[sullen cairn]

Thanos

[wary panther]

Same

[sullen cairn]

Overscaled axis time

[wary panther]

I hate the thanos dinosaur, it pisses me off so much 😠

[bright veldt]

Its honestly easy to ignore

[clever sable]

I also hate oxalaia, it's just spinosaurus but fragmentary

[wary panther]

God this rex is ugly, not so good for paleo art tbh

[sullen cairn]

The name isn’t

[light osprey]

Kurupi itaata

[wary panther]

???????????

[sullen cairn]

No

Bad

[light osprey]

It’s essentially in translation, the rock-hard god of sex

[sullen cairn]

: (

[clever sable]

Eotrike when it's smaller than regular trike:

[undone parcel]

sitting here just enjoying all names cause they have reason

[clever sable]

Best name Fr fr

[wary panther]

How dare you make eotrike weak?!?!?!?111 it's stronger then all ceratopsians- Eo trike main

[undone parcel]

eotrike is literally just trike prototype before the puckerfactor

dont know what 90%of these emojis mean and dont care cause my opinions are mine..

[sullen cairn]

At least eotrike’s still similar to alberto size

[wary panther]

hot topic: Sauropod Carcasses could provide home for small theropods

[tough parcel]

Doubt a home considering the amount of predators (larger ones) it'd attract

[undone parcel]

...moving on...to a non-who am i kidding any opinion in Paleo is a attack on someone out there..people will feel slighted because your opinion about x prehistoric animal is different..

[light osprey]

Is it?

[sullen cairn]

Albertosaurus not albertaceratops

[wary panther]

Wdym

[wary panther]

I can say Rex is the strongest theropod and no one will disagree, get annoyed? yes

[light osprey]

Yes, that’s why you had me bamboozled

[undone parcel]

youll get people argueing over giga

[clever sable]

Uh oh, a mod is typing

[wary panther]

Uh oh

[stuck chasm]

A general reminder for future reference. Please note that rule enforcement is determined by the staff team, and is not for personal interpretation. While we understand that users may not always agree with moderator decisions, but we will gladly listen to and answer any questions or concerns regarding server moderation via the @feral crane or our support #help.

[wary panther]

Ruh roh, I didn't cite my sources 🙀

[sullen cairn]

Me when my source is some journal from 1930s Central Asia that outright doesn’t exist online

[wary panther]

What the mod said: We enforced rule, cry more kiddo

[undone parcel]

majority of soviet era paleo

[tough parcel]

The...the raptor

[undone parcel]

yes its THE raptor

[light osprey]

Finally something worthwhile 🥱, more little maastrichtian guys

[bright veldt]

Here's the largest ceratopsids, and tbh are the only ones that go beyond the general size of 5 meters and 1.5-2 tons

[clever sable]

I bet it could eat someone

[tough parcel]

Also, have some fat butts

[bright veldt]

1. Triceratops (8m, 7 tons)+
2. Torosaurus (8m, 7 tons)
3. Titanoceratops (7m, 6.5 tons)
   4+5. Eotriceratops & Sinoceratops (7m, 5 tons)
4. Pachyrhinosaurus (7m, 4.5 tons)
5. Pentaceratops (6m, 2.5 tons)

This is ignoring controversial taxa that we don't really know what's going on like ojoceratops and nedoceratops

[wary panther]

Carcharodonotosaurus looks too big

[sullen cairn]

Drumheller my beloved

[tough parcel]

It might be too tall, but I'm waiting for something else now

[light osprey]

Torosaurus get how big now

[clever sable]

Aren't the largest trikes like 9-10 tonnes or something? Or am I just stupid

[undone parcel]

does anyone know what happened to...Triceratops maximus...my only reference to it are..this kids book i had when i was like 5

[wary panther]

possibly 12 but its max

[sullen cairn]

That’s the guy with the preserved verts in the size comp Fred sent a few minutes ago

[light osprey]

That’s probably what the plus sign was for

[clever sable]

I'm talking about largest specimens we have, not the hypothetical largest specimen ever that we don't have

[bright veldt]

Getting proper size estimates for triceratops is actually extremely difficult due to how much variety there seemed to be. The size there is from the one GDI that exists. It probably did get bigger than what I put there, hence it being bigger than toro despite the same given metrics.

[undone parcel]

this book..should probably say credit is to Luis V rey..

[wary panther]

probs 9-10 then

tyrannosaurus missed out on having giant claws

[clever sable]

It didn't need em

[undone parcel]

rex is the king of jaws while maip is the queen of claws..

[tough parcel]

It says it, but it's so fricking pixelated

[wary panther]

Spinosaurus in the corner:

[undone parcel]

mmm but spino isnt a Coelurosaur

[tough parcel]

Spino arms aren't known, but the one metacarpal we have shows that Spino's hands are slim af

[wary panther]

Oh my bad, I thought we were just talking about theropods

[undone parcel]

its just fitting the "queen" to rexes "king" would be a related family like all classic monarchies

[sullen cairn]

Is also like 1/3rd of the size which slightly complicates the whole queen thing

[wary panther]

Big hands and Big jaws

Megaraptors and Tyrannosaurus are a Duo many don't know exist

[tough parcel]

Not really, women are almost always tiny 😔 so smol (speaking from experience)

[undone parcel]

listen until we get a official named queen i vote a Megaraptoran as the queen simply to have muscles to oppose rexes jaws..

[covert lintel]

yeah there's a bit of a trend in carnivorous megatheropods re: the tiny arms, bit hard to find huge ones that still have beefy arms

[wary panther]

You've seen a real woman?!?!?11 🙀

Guys it was a satire joke

[bright veldt]

There tends to be a lot of convergence amongst theropods once past a certain size regardless of relation. A lot of people like to make fun of T. rex for its tiny arms, but carcharodontosaurs like giga have arms about the same size and just as meh in terms of use.

[stuck chasm]

This channel is for the discussion of past and present paleontological discoveries, scientific news, and depictions of prehistoric creatures in media in relation to palaeontology. Please stay on topic and refer to our ⁠rules and pinned messages before posting

[undone parcel]

cough abelisaurus cough

[clever sable]

So, since we have 3 rexes that are around and possibly exceeding 10 tonnes, is it possible 10 tonnes is just the upper end of average?

[wary panther]

it probably is, though many think otherwise

[covert lintel]

i'd say it's unlikely given the sheer number of tyrannosaurus specimens we've got

[bright veldt]

The one decent giga specimen is 9 tons. Getting 10+ tons is almost a certainty just looking at how animal averages go.

[wary panther]

That aren't close to being fully grown

[next moss]

Is the green carchar based on a new skeletal or is it just dan’s

[undone parcel]

not taking into account if the 10 tonners arent examples of gigantism

[clever sable]

We got like around 35 iirc and 3 of them are around 10 tonnes

[wary panther]

We haven't found MASSIVE specimens of these kinds of animals, we've just been getting really lucky and unlucky for deciding mass

[covert lintel]

how are you defining fully grown, and where are you getting the information that most of them aren't?

[clever sable]

Random got 8.4 tonnes for the giga holotype iirc

[bright veldt]

The smallest "adult" tyrannosaurs are individuals like Stan, and they're still like 8 tons.

[wary panther]

Unless they are 28, they still have much growing to do

[clever sable]

Tyrannosaurus is fully mature around 16 iirc, 28 is just Sue's age and she's the second oldest

[undone parcel]

id say a rex is full grown by like 29 considering it dies in like 2 years at most

[wary panther]

wait, 6 tons at 16 or 8??

[sullen cairn]

Sexual or skeletal maturity

[light osprey]

Defining the relationship

[wary panther]

Skeletal maturity

[undone parcel]

uhh depending if they stop growing till death

[bright veldt]

Yeah rex is not properly mature at 16 lol. More like early 20s. 16 is sexual maturity if Jane was breeding age despite still being pretty juvenile-esc in build.

[clever sable]

No, ate age 16

[wary panther]

alr

But seeing how big reptiles can get I really doubt we are that close to a Maxium size

Largest Saltwater crocs are at 1 ton

[covert lintel]

my two cents is that defining "fully grown" as "at the end of its average wild lifespan" seems a little bit unhelpful, esp. when talking about average sizes

[bright veldt]

IE most mature edmontosaurus individuals being 9 meters in length with only the largest and oldest reaching shantung sizes

[sullen cairn]

Average annectans is at 5500kg

[next moss]

Stan being one of the smallest adult tyrannosaur? I swear stan was around average rex size unless am being mistaken

[wary panther]

Sad edmontosaurus isn't anywhere as large as a shant

[undone parcel]

god imagine a shant living that long then

[bright veldt]

He's on the younger end in terms of mature tyrannosaurs

[wary panther]

Wait, victoria isn't smaller than stan??????

[wary panther]

I don't understand the meme fr

[undone parcel]

if the oldest Edmontosaurus can hit Shant sizes...how big would shant be at those ages....

[wary panther]

we are talking about 20+ maybe

[sullen cairn]

Is there any actual evidence that the giant edmontosaurus are abnormally old

[bright veldt]

I mean I'm just assuming

[undone parcel]

itd have to be old...

[light osprey]

Skill issue

[sullen cairn]

Hadrosaurs hit skeletal maturity pretty fast

[wary panther]

Lets assume average Edmontosaurus weight was say 6 tons with a maximum of somehow 16-17 tons, if shant has a comparable growth spurt and the environment isn't much different then we must be capping 26 tons maybe

[light osprey]

Sounds high, I’m gonna say no

[covert lintel]

how many shant specimens are there?
reason i'm asking is because i'm formulating a crackpot theory that shant was actually small on average a la edmontosaurus annectens

[sullen cairn]

Projected maximum size 🤢

[wary panther]

to assume the average for shant is 16 or 18 tons then maybe

[bright veldt]

Keep in mind Shant's ecology might've been different from other hadrosaurs if it's size was the norm. It likely would've suffered less from predation given how it's like, 3x larger than the apex predator it lived with, which is abnormal compared to most hadrosaurs.

[wary panther]

They are bones, what are you going to do about it? 🤨

[light osprey]

So just like, relatively developed adults would be the large specimens, not defined by advanced age in particular

[undone parcel]

also isnt it inferred that Shant took over the Sauropod niche

[wary panther]

yeah it did

[sullen cairn]

At least some hadrosaurs have pretty low mortality rates until they hit skeletal maturity but I’m not sure about edmonto

[bright veldt]

Hadrosaurs and sauropods are both generally high browsers regardless of size. Nemegt had a collection of hadrosaurs and sauropods at similar sizes to each other.

[sullen cairn]

I’d have to check I think it’s in that RMQ paper

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/kumalala-gif-25747012

[undone parcel]

barsboldia...is that one Nemegt...yea cause i recall it cameoed in the Oasis scene in PHP

[wary panther]

Someone is getting a mod warning 🤓

[bright veldt]

Ye

[chilly knot]

Nuh uh

[wary panther]

Yuh huh

[undone parcel]

wasnt Bar decently huge too...

[sullen cairn]

Bars is like 6-7t I think

[bright veldt]

6.5 tons give or take

[wary panther]

Guys I think the mods are asleep

[undone parcel]

so not Shant huge but definitely impressive..

[light osprey]

Like a regula fella, the Mongolian Saurolophus I think is the Nemegt fatty

[wary panther]

all it takes is one @

[bright veldt]

Not quite actually

[stuck chasm]

Please keep this channel on topic, and avoid posting off-topic gifs.

[bright veldt]

Saurolophus generally comes up smaller than Barsboldia. I think giant saurolophus comes from if you lump bars's material into saurolophus, which is a fair interpetation but controversial at this current time.

[light osprey]

Oh?

[wary panther]

mods are very angry

[undone parcel]

isnt Asian Saurolophus like twice the size then american

[sullen cairn]

Giant saurophus is if you don’t use fadeno’s bobblehead

[bright veldt]

Basically. American saurolophus is basic hadrosaur size.

[undone parcel]

....so...like 4 tons?

[bright veldt]

Average hadrosaur is..like... 8-9 meters and 2.5-3 tons

[tranquil quartz]

I think the moral of the story is that Hadrosaurs were pretty big

[bright veldt]

Here's all hadrosaurs above 5 tons

[wary panther]

Hadrosaurus are still fodder, trust

[undone parcel]

would Parasaurolophus fall under basic..

[bright veldt]

1. Shantungosaurus (14m, 16 tons)
2. Edmontosaurus (15m, 14 tons)
3. Parasaurolophus (13m, 12 tons)
4. Magnapaulia (12m, 10 tons)
5. Angulomasticator (12m, 9.5 tons)
   6, 7, 8. Amurosaurus (11m, 7 tons), Charonosaurus (11m, 7 tons), and Gryposaurus (10m, 7 tons)
   9, 10. Barsboldia (11m, 6.5 tons) and Prosaurolophus (10m, 6.5 tons)
6. Saurolophus (10m, 5.5 tons)
7. Tsintaosaurus (10m, 5 tons)

[light osprey]

So how does S. angustirostris compare with good attributed material

[undone parcel]

wait wait.. when was Para bigger then "Big Paul"

[wary panther]

Bad ending: Shant is actually just composed of multiple hadrosaurus 😦

Luckily that's not the case

[bright veldt]

It's based on the species. P. walkeri is 9 meters and 3 tons, so pretty basic hadrosaur. The other two species are much larger though. P. tubicens is 12 meters long and 8 tons, while P. cyrtocristatus is the largest by far.

"I hate constructive paleontological convervsation. Spam T. rex art till it stops"

[undone parcel]

definitely not a rex fanboy

[next moss]

[light osprey]

New topic, how do we feel about Sciurumimus and Scipionyx

[undone parcel]

adorably skrimpy...but beautiful preservervation

[light osprey]

No… I mean… their phylogeny 😈

[undone parcel]

.......not carchs or whatever i can say that much

[bright veldt]

afaik Sciurumimus is rn just "coelurosaur" with not much else known

[light osprey]

So, you’ve taken your side

[bright veldt]

Scipionyx meanwhile is most likely a hatchling allosauroid

[undone parcel]

what did compsognathid change?

[light osprey]

It’s possible the clade in its current state is problematic

[bright veldt]

Compsognathids in general most likely are not all juvenile carcharodontosaurs like the paper tried to suggest. Compsognathus, Ubijara, and Sinosauropteryx were all mature animals.

[undone parcel]

all i know is skippy was a very very young baby when it died i know that much..

i do agree that compsognathids are..problematic cause it seems just every small dinosaur gets thrown in there

[bright veldt]

eh not really

[undone parcel]

not literally but its very full

[light osprey]

Which paper are you referencing

[bright veldt]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/354418322_Comments_on_the_Mesozoic_theropod_dinosaurs_from_Italy

[undone parcel]

the stupid one that tryed arguing compsognathids were juveniles of other things

[bright veldt]

It's not really that stupid though. With scipionyx in particular (and likely other compsognathids only known from juvenile remains) it makes a lot of sense.

[light osprey]

Ah okay, same one

[undone parcel]

skippys the only one for me cause it died like probaly not even a few days after hatching so that one makes sense

[light osprey]

The paper itself I think only sights a few examples of juvenile material which gets tossed into Compsognathidae.

[bright veldt]

Compsognathidae in general is likely in a bit of a mess. We know there's a proper clade in there given there's still closely related proper taxa, but its highly possible that the "compsognathid" form is how most young theropods look and thus is likely an overlumped group.

[undone parcel]

its like how PHP gave the baby raptors a basically universal body type cause they probabably hardly differed

[light osprey]

I find that some of these juvenile taxa exhibit filamentous integument, helps broaden Teturan’s capacity for those depictions, and logically it fits because blah blah ancestral to Ornithodira or something.

[undone parcel]

cut to Luis V Reys feathered allosaurus

[covert lintel]

yep, i strongly doubt all compsognathids are juveniles of other clades, but there's an argument to be made for a decent chunk of 'em being that

[bright veldt]

Again, compsognathus, sinosauropteryx, and ubijara all have specimens that were definitely adults. Others are much less clear tho.

[light osprey]

Yeah, interesting though that the paper raised possible doubt about C. longiceps curious where that comes from

[undone parcel]

probably because they come from places with amazing preservation

look the paper was...Cau right..?

[bright veldt]

Even if the compy specimens aren't mature, I would greatly question it because the ecosystem they lived in just could not support large theropods unless they were very specialized.

[light osprey]

Yeah it seemed like a loose thread, clearly not the main focus of the paper

[bright veldt]

The Solnhofen region at the time was an archipelago where the islands were absolutely tiny and arid, with the biggest plants being meter-tall bushes, and the only available terrestrial prey is tiny birds and pterosaurs.

[undone parcel]

i think it was Cau but i can confidently say i only ever knew them for Sauroniops

[bright veldt]

They were one of the first to rigorously question quad spino if that means anything. They also described Halszkaraptor.

[light osprey]

What a Chad

[sullen cairn]

naish and cau made that eotyrannus monograph too

[undone parcel]

can i admit...i liked quad spino it looked cool..

[light osprey]

Oh?

[sullen cairn]

he helped describe that kem kem abelisaur too which had some content on general kem kem biota as well

[bright veldt]

He's a royal jerk actually but I digress. Either way he's still a respected paleontologist.

[light osprey]

Lol, luckily I didn’t catch the first message, maybe some more colourful language

[bright veldt]

Yeah I got vibe checked by the censorship bot twice

[undone parcel]

also funny how in 2014 we got perhaps the biggest news with spinosaurus but also a Transformer spino

[light osprey]

I’m inclined to like this paper specifically

Let’s spread the good word of protofeathers to all the Tetanurans

[sullen cairn]

speaking of which why was everyone giving siats feathers back in 2013

[undone parcel]

....feathers were big and siats was the new big theropod io guess?

cause i remember this was also when fluff rex was huge too

[light osprey]

I think by then it was still tossed into Megaraptora

[sullen cairn]

it was described as an allosauroid

[undone parcel]

i think it still flips between megaraptoran and neovenatorid

[light osprey]

Oh yep, Megaraptora were considered Neovenatorids back then too 😭

[bright veldt]

I put it as a neovenatorid and not question it's placement or question neovenatorids as a group for my peace of mind.

[sullen cairn]

anyways gualicho

[undone parcel]

i thought they were just a sub group within carcharadontosauria?

[bright veldt]

Gualicho is pretty firmly a noasaurid. It just has a history of bad phylogenetic studies that say otherwise cause they were bad.

[light osprey]

I hear about him, spent 0 time with him. What’s his deal

[sullen cairn]

neovenator itself is fine it's just everything else likes flying everywhere else

gualicho's a taxon

[undone parcel]

venator is definitly one of the best words in a name..

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/the-universe-tim-and-eric-mind-blown-mind-blown-meme-mind-explosion-mind-explosion-meme-gif-18002878

[undone parcel]

i got it..Neojeager

[sullen cairn]

the good ending
gualicho/deltadromaeus - noasaurids
megaraptora - pantyrannosauria (if it stops killing itself)
siats/chilantaisaurus - megaraptora
bahariasaurus - nonexistant

[undone parcel]

no give me giant noasaur bahariasaurus

[bright veldt]

siats and chilantaisaurus tmk are probably whatever 'neovenatorids' are

[undone parcel]

i think both flop between neoventorids and megaraptorans

[bright veldt]

they do but neovenatorid seems to be the current accepted interpeation

[light osprey]

(I wonder what this message said, oh well)

[undone parcel]

i just want a german theropod with jeager in the name..

[sullen cairn]

noasaurids are ceratosaurians

[tranquil quartz]

Kenyan Giant Description

[sullen cairn]

i don't have much of a stake in the siats/chilantai game i just think they're neat

[undone parcel]

i just like big theropods

[light osprey]

Neovenator informed reconstructions do look pretty lovely

[light osprey]

Yes yes, I read your comment wrongo, pretend it never happened

[undone parcel]

the internet never forgets

someone mentioned the..Turkana Grits Abelisaur...the paper is in production

[sullen cairn]

in all seriousness though megaraptoran siats and chilantaisaurus would both be kinda weird in the context of megaraptoran distribution

[undone parcel]

why for chilantai? theres a couple asian ones

[light osprey]

I’d rework the good ending and stuff both of them in as basal Carcharodontosaurs

[sullen cairn]

not in the turonian

[undone parcel]

that we know of

[bright veldt]

Neovenatoridae just not existing and neovenator, siats, and chilantai being derived allosauroids just outside of carcharodontosauridae

[undone parcel]

never say never in paleontology unless proven otherwise

[sullen cairn]

the good good ending where someone redefines pantyrannosauria

[light osprey]

Do they even exhibit Neovenatorid traits? or could it be a similar situation with Megaraptora?

[bright veldt]

thats implying neovenatorid traits are decent enough to even qualify as a group

like the clade's entire existence is a "meh"

[light osprey]

Things that kind of look like Neovenator idk 😭

[undone parcel]

is...it possible for there to be NA megaraptorans

[bright veldt]

I mean yeah. They've been around enough. All the definite megaraptorans have stuck to gondwana though, or very close to it.

[light osprey]

These asians ones I think were mentioned, what are those

[bright veldt]

They're still southeast asian

[undone parcel]

very basal

[tranquil quartz]

Is it possible for Maastrichtian Carcharodontosaurids

[light osprey]

Temporally where do they sit (the Megaraptorans)

[bright veldt]

Possible, but very unlikely

[undone parcel]

no carchs were a loss with the turonian turnover

[sullen cairn]

just let me have gres a reptiles

[tranquil quartz]

Is it theorised where they could have POSSIBLY been?

[sullen cairn]

megaraptorans are barremian-maastrichtian maybe berrisian/hauterivian if you include sibiricus

[light osprey]

The seem to have kicked the bucket long before then

[undone parcel]

nowhere where the abelisaurs or rexes took over

[tranquil quartz]

Not even some little guys like Conc or Alti?

[undone parcel]

maaybe..but i highly doubt past the campainian

[sullen cairn]

it's possible but potential allosauroid records post-turonian are just teeth and other fragments that keep getting reassigned to abelisaurids

[light osprey]

Can’t seem to find any, they would’ve had to been endemic to some weird ecosystems I think

[bright veldt]

Ok lemme correct. There's only one definite megaraptoran known from outside Gonwana: Phuwiangvenator from Thailand. And like someone said prior it's one of the most basal megaraptorans.

[light osprey]

Oh that one is super early

[sullen cairn]

and fukuiraptor ig too in japan

[undone parcel]

isnt fukui shaky

[bright veldt]

Nah

[undone parcel]

no fukuivenators the one with shaky ties

[bright veldt]

Fukuiraptor and Puwiangvenator are megaraptorans, and the only definite ones that aren't megaraptorids.

[undone parcel]

isnt there another one in SEA

[sullen cairn]

vayuraptor could be one but that's shaky

[bright veldt]

I tried to find it, cause I thought there was more than one as well, but it's the only one I could find.

[undone parcel]

werent they all from the same formation as Ichthyovenator and Siamotyrannus

[bright veldt]

Ye

[light osprey]

Usually cladistic discussion here is about the convoluted nature of Titanosauria, glad to see Teturanae is equally crap

[sullen cairn]

there's also a tooth in thailand from a different formation that could be megaraptoran

[undone parcel]

theres like 2 or 3 cladistically ok groups..everything else hurts

[light osprey]

Teeth. Teeth everywhere

[sullen cairn]

maybe sibiricus in russia but I don't know if mortimer got that comparing it with chilantaisaurus or an acutally established megaraptoran

[bright veldt]

Not ichthyovenator tho. The local spinosaur was 'siamosaurus' which isn't a thing.

[undone parcel]

dont you love how teeth converge to look similiar cause they fill the same purpose

this reminds me of uh....Sinopliosaurus...it was argued between plesiosaur/pliosaur and spinosaur over teeth...cause the teeth both convereged to look the same..and I think it was settled upon pliosaur..ignoring my immediate hate how its Sino animal name

[light osprey]

Only tooth taxon I like is the Vega Islands one, because the authors said it shows shared traits of Edmontosaurinis, so either throwing a spanner in Hadrosaur distribution or the authors forgot Kritosaurini existed

[sullen cairn]

and then you have megaraptorans in south america from the albian-maastrichtian, australia from the aptian-cenomanian, and maybe maastrichtian new zealand and albian africa

[undone parcel]

then you had PNSO who made their Sinopliosaurus a freakin Icthyovenator type spinosaur like what..

[light osprey]

Oh finally what I’ve been looking for, what’s this New Zealand Megaraptoran

[tranquil quartz]

Ok unrelated to the topic at hand but a curious question of mine, what is the single most important fossil/ specimen that was confiscated/ stolen due to illegal fossil trade?

[sullen cairn]

takakita grit

[undone parcel]

ohhh thats good

[light osprey]

Don’t know the exact details, I think I. challengeri might fit the book for it

[undone parcel]

uhhh all of europes collections?

[sullen cairn]

real

[tranquil quartz]

Just worldwide

[chilly knot]

Speaking of Siats and megaraptora

[undone parcel]

anything from Tendaguru and mongolia pre60s-70s

[sullen cairn]

i hope people didn't take the good ending seriously

(besides noasaurids because they're cool)

[undone parcel]

isnt Siats just the holotype

[light osprey]

😭

[bright veldt]

I mean with the exception of the neovenatridae thing the other 3 things you said are literally correct

[sullen cairn]

pantyrannosauria's just funny as a group though

[bright veldt]

fair

[undone parcel]

some clear this up for me is it saying Siats is a tetanuran?

[sullen cairn]

siats is a probable allosauroid

[light oxide]

Siats . . . is Siats at this point. XD

[light osprey]

Incredible stuff

[undone parcel]

...how..complete or good is the material..

[sullen cairn]

pelvic/axial elements iirc

[somber tartan]

What herbivores lived with torvosaurus

[undone parcel]

whatever lived with allosaurus

[light oxide]

Depends on the formation.

[bright veldt]

It's the morrison formation. A lot did.

[undone parcel]

in lourinha just replace stego with mirigaia

[somber tartan]

The big one

[next moss]

Oh yeah morrison has a lot of sauropods💀

[bright veldt]

ezcept Miragaia is in the morrison too lol

[undone parcel]

or alcovasaurus if you will

[sullen cairn]

anyways the actual point here is that bahariasaurus is actually a tyrannosaurid or something and an adult deltadromeus because trust me bro i read that somewhere

[light oxide]

Stegosaurus, Diplodocus, Miragaia (most likely, based on Alcovasaurus), Apatosaurus, Camptosaurus, Dryosaurus, Brachiosaurus, and much more.

[light osprey]

Real and true?

[light oxide]

That also works. XD

[chilly knot]

There's allegedly undescribed cranial stuff from siats

[undone parcel]

hardly any known pterosaurs

[bright veldt]

tldr on Bahariasaurus is...it's probably synonymous with deltadromeus but it's remains are dead and uninteresting so it might as well not exist

[light oxide]

Where

[light osprey]

Well uh, describe it then

[chilly knot]

Aight bro tomorrow, okay?

[undone parcel]

so..you know how Saurophaganax is radioactive

[sullen cairn]

there's that probable siats type thing from idaho too

[light osprey]

Ya that’ll be good

[undone parcel]

so idaho is useful for something

[sullen cairn]

(it's an isolated centrum)

[light oxide]

The pterosaurs there, to my knowledge, were Rhamphorhynchoidea.

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/cod-mw2-cod-mw2ghost-cod-ghost-ghost-stare-stare-gif-27067874

[light osprey]

Wow, I’m in vote to change the clade name to this

[undone parcel]

so we know Acrocanthosaurus was all over america effectivley..,and it went extinct..before siats appeared right..

[light oxide]

There -- got the clade name there.

[undone parcel]

what if..siats replaced acro in distribution

[sullen cairn]

is from texas and wyoming
maybe has some teeth from maryland
yeah bro it's all across north america

[bright veldt]

Eh why not

[undone parcel]

i lump capitlasaurus as acro cause it makes sense

[sullen cairn]

ik teeth and maryland just don't go well together

[light osprey]

It’s early Turonian right?

[sullen cairn]

case in point astrodon
ew

[storm heron]

North American Carcharadontosaurids, now that is an interesting topic

[sullen cairn]

there's also allosaurus medius from maryland which is a potential carch

[bright veldt]

atm literally only acro, in that regard it's a bit of an anomaly

[undone parcel]

uhh 94 mya so.. right at the end of cedar mount

[sullen cairn]

siats is mussentuchit which is cenomanian at the earliest

[light osprey]

Oh Cenomanian? Even better

[undone parcel]

yea so basically right after acro is gone

[chilly knot]

There's Carcharadontosaur material from the Lewisville formation that shares some features with Siats

[undone parcel]

i mean...they are the most..uniform looking animals..

[sullen cairn]

wow guys now it's not just teeth it's teeth and a chevron

[light osprey]

For simplicity and logic, it sounds like Siats replaces Acrocanthosaurus’ role. Now, what is it

[undone parcel]

if we try reaaly hard we might get a chest

[sullen cairn]

carcharadontosauria is the objectively more based choice

(megaraptoran is kinda aesthetic though)

[light osprey]

So Neovenatorid is a go?

[undone parcel]

nevenatorid might become just a way to describe a body plan instead of a family

[light oxide]

Apparently, this is all the fossils we have on Siats so far:

[chilly knot]

Chad Siats outcompeting and replacing the virgin Acrocanthosaurus very real and true

[light osprey]

I think that’s how I’m tossing it around, something something, Carcharodontosaurs that aren’t in clear defined clades

[sullen cairn]

that's like how species work right guys

[undone parcel]

its less acro was outcompeted and..went extinct

[light osprey]

Minus fellows like Concavenator n stuff

[undone parcel]

hey..concs cool

[sullen cairn]

the chad ulughbegsaurus turning itself into a dromaeosaur

shaochilong again stands alone

[chilly knot]

Based

[light osprey]

If you’re not giant or a Neovenator looking thing, no one cares about you 💯

[sullen cairn]

neovenator dumbass phalange arrives

[light oxide]

Hmm . . . Prey changes?

We know that predators can go extinct if their prey change enough to where the predators in question are no longer able to catch them and, as such, eventually die off.

[tranquil quartz]

Quite the opposite

L SIATS

[chilly knot]

Nuh uh

[light osprey]

Big Macronarians disappear from North America for a bit? Correlation possibly

[tranquil quartz]

Yuh uh

[light osprey]

Ight I’m sticking with it

[light oxide]

Hmm . . . Ima take a look at the suggested time zones of the prey items for Acro to see if it's correct.

[sullen cairn]

some mussentuchit stuff (that I could find skeletals for last month)

[storm heron]

Is that a Nodosaur or a basal Ankylosaurian?

[sullen cairn]

peloro

so nodosaur

[storm heron]

Ah, pretty big.

[chilly knot]

Plot twist: Siats turns out tyrannosauroid and Moros is just a juvi siats

[sullen cairn]

plot twist: allosaurus is a juvenile giganotosaurus
you see giganotosaurus is earlier because the allosaurus grew up and they became heavier so they sunk from north america to south america

[chilly knot]

As a Canon event inspector from the spider society, I can confirm

[tranquil quartz]

Plot twist: Gigantoraptor likes kfc

[sullen cairn]

plot twist: mongolian tyrannosaurs got big because gigantoraptor kept eating them

[light osprey]

Okay the Macronarians are still there, so I guess Acrocanthosaurus got tired and tapped out of existence

[light oxide]

Interesting -- both Acrocanthosaurus, Astrodon, and Sauroposeidon seemed to have disappeared around 110 million years ago . . .

[sullen cairn]

and then siats was killed by lythornax

[chilly knot]

Holding back the urge...

[light oxide]

And Astrodon and Sauroposeidon are the two known sauropods that lived with Acrocanthosaurus.

Though Tenontosaurus was still kicking around for 2 more million years.

[sullen cairn]

astrodon is a very reasonable very valid taxon

[light osprey]

Dew it

[light osprey]

er wait, are these Macronarians actually associated with Siats, or am I still right

[light oxide]

Huh . . . What Macronarians were with Siats?

[light osprey]

Whatever Tables posted idk

[sullen cairn]

abydosaurus

[chilly knot]

Also an undescribed titanosaur I heard

[compact leaf]

siats is at the tail end of cedar mountain right?

[sullen cairn]

mussentuchit

so yes

[compact leaf]

a few brachiosaurids were probably around or adjacent to it then too

[sullen cairn]

yeah abdyosaurus is also mussentuchit

sonorasaurus is same general timeframe as well

[light osprey]

So must’ve been the climate that killed Acrocanthosaurus

[light oxide]

I was just about to say something about Abydosaurus once I found out that it could've been in the same time period as Siats. XD

[light oxide]

The question, though, would be what kind of climate change?

[tranquil quartz]

Nah it was mega rabies

[light oxide]

Interesting . . .

Based on the information there . . . Siats could be a carcharodontosaurid that turned allosaurus-like in build, to compensate for the lack of sauropods.

[sullen cairn]

do we really know much about siats' build though

[light oxide]

That is yet to be answered.

[tranquil quartz]

What dinosaurs most likely skipped leg day

[sullen cairn]

majungasaurus

[light oxide]

Especially when there's a supposed cranial part of Siats.

[light osprey]

Speculative anatomy, trust the process 💯

[compact leaf]

the lack of sauropods could also be partially due to preservation bias, considering how many brachiosaurids are around and how horribly they usually fossilize

[light oxide]

True.

. . . Huh -- what's the size difference between Acrocanthosaurus and Siats?

That is up to date, of course. Since we don't have all of Siats . . . Yet.

[light osprey]

Campanian Sauropods real?

[compact leaf]

not in all of north america but in some places probably

eastern north america could have anything going on tbh

[sullen cairn]

pretty similar in length but siats usually ends up a good bit lighter because it gets reconsturcted from neovenator

[light osprey]

Pfff No one cares about that part, back to Laramidia

[light oxide]

Interesting.

[compact leaf]

of course what am I saying? silly me

[light oxide]

Hmm . . .

[bright veldt]

Acro was the heavier set animal, siats specimen being subadult or not.

[light osprey]

So what suggests the possibility of immaturity

[bright veldt]

slight lack of solidification in the bones

Even if you upsize it to 12m for a speculative adult it's still smaller than acro so meh.

[sullen cairn]

siats uses projected adult size
disgusting

[chilly knot]

Should've put a 13m speculative adult in the background

[sullen cairn]

I firmly believe that any speculative adult size siats is more cringe than megaraptoran siats

[light oxide]

I wonder . . .

Normally, the larger you are, the longer you can go without food, but you also would need a LOT of food to maintain the size.

Could it potentially be that the Acrocanthosaurus were a bit of an unoptimized size for what the prey was around at the time of its disappearance, with Siats being more optimal size wise?

Just speculation, of course. But an interesting thought.

[bright veldt]

Eh it depends. Acrocanthosaurus tmk likely lived in a more stable environment given its growth rates.

Other carcharodontosaurs like giga, mapu, and meraxes lived in arid af deserts so they grew a lot slower.

[sullen cairn]

anyways lambor's paying for my therapy now

[clever sable]

Acro is just the best

[west coral]

Where’d you get the peloroplites from?

[sullen cairn]

scaled the skull of a mount

[light oxide]

I see . . . So what could've possibly destabilized the environment for Acrocanthosaurus?

[sullen cairn]

me

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/in-terms-of-money-we-have-no-money-gif-25132859

[light osprey]

Look at the aftermath, this… Siats thing is your fault smh

[light oxide]

Well, at least it's safe to say that it's most likely not a megaraptoran like what most people think.

[sullen cairn]

the sigma 7000kg adult siats killed the cringe fran

[light osprey]

Never say never

[sullen cairn]

hence why it's no longer in the comparison

[chilly knot]

It's true

[compact leaf]

there's a few things that could have happened but we don't really know, the smaller sauropods becoming less common might have happened (or the sauropods could have just up and left for somewhere else), there's an overturn in the smaller herbivores so that could have destabilized the environment from the ground up (granted that really wouldn't affect the larger sauropods)

[light osprey]

So, Cenomanian Carch is right on track with the rest of the world, North America being cool and normal

[light oxide]

True.

Hell, Siats may also have been megaraptoran for all we know that somehow ended up in Acrocanthosaurus's real estate and outcompeted them, somehow. But that's unlikely until we find more fossils of Siats.

[sullen cairn]

be a megaraptoran because L
enter north america in the cenomanian
die immediately after

mussentuchit's technically albian-cenomanian but I don't care

[stiff osprey]

he used all his evolution points into becoming the size of a carch and had none left to actually be good at living

[sullen cairn]

the real reason megaraptorans don't get bigger than 3t

[light oxide]

Meanwhile, Camptosaurus here still figuring out ways on becoming bigger than previously thought.

[chilly knot]

Realized size isn't the right skill tree for megaraptoran build

[flat pond]

Muttaburrasaurus from PK looking good.

[sullen cairn]

"Was Siats a bad animal?"

[light oxide]

Ooo

[compact leaf]

everything from pk looks good

[light osprey]

Shoot I forgot this game existed, that looks fantastic

[flat pond]

True

[covert lintel]

except the rex's mouth

[light oxide]

How can ye forget about PK's existence?!?!

lol

[compact leaf]

that's their one bad thing I'll give you that

[light osprey]

I know, it’s criminal

[clever sable]

Acrocanthosaurus > siats

[sullen cairn]

camptosaurus getting bigger was more of someone made a size comparison of a specimen we've known was big for 40 years

[light oxide]

Still a funny thing to meme about. XD

[sullen cairn]

2t campto's been a thing since the 80s

[light osprey]

2000kg? I think it’s time to get on the cut smh

[stiff osprey]

everyone simply chooses to forget about it, an understandable decision

[sullen cairn]

i blame pot in part for everyone thinking it's tiny

although it was never prevelant in the first place tbf

[light oxide]

Same.

#JusticeForCamptosaurus

[light osprey]

Oh, the irony

[sullen cairn]

poor campto

[woeful falcon]

Isn't that a one off campto tho

Like an excessively large one in a myriad of specimens not as large? Someone correct me if I'm wrong

[sullen cairn]

yeah it's exceptionally large for a campto

still campto's were pretty frequently hitting at least half a ton iirc

[light oxide]

Think I may have found PK's concept art version of the Morrison Formation (well, at least of portion of it):

[covert lintel]

QUILLED ALLOSAURUS

[stiff osprey]

RIP PK Ornitholestes

[sullen cairn]

why is nasicornis like amnh 680 size

[stiff osprey]

speculative sexual dimorphism, now why is allosaurus dentisulcatus sized

[clever sable]

Yeah it's a freak

[sullen cairn]

that things not even DINO sized

[woeful falcon]

Oh ye ofc.

I'm 900% sure the big campto has a mount at my museum. I went there a few years back and looked at the descriptions to see what it was, and when it said camptosaurus I was like "christ on a bike why is it this huge"

[sullen cairn]

i think it's in minnesota or something

[woeful falcon]

Ye ye that's where I am. So def same

[sullen cairn]

but like actually why's 680 so small

[woeful falcon]

Its trying its best ok

[light oxide]

Hmm . . . Theory -- the large Camptosaurus is a male, with the smaller ones being females. (Or maybe even the opposite.)

AKA, sexual dimorphism.

[astral kelp]

Blub aren't you supposed to be dead?

[woeful falcon]

Only in kto

[covert lintel]

could even be the other way around, considering how some birds do sexual dimorphism
oh you beat me to it lol

[light oxide]

XD

[woeful falcon]

The updated campto seems a lot better I will say, from both a look and a size perspective

[sullen cairn]

the ceratosaurus is like very generous kenton vertebrae sized and 680's below average allo sized

or that tooth

[covert lintel]

ngl i do get a little sad sometimes, thinking about how it's hard to tell whether or not a prehistoric species is sexually dimorphic without a massive sample size (and also. yknow. readily apparent dimorphism in the skeleton (or other remains if ur very lucky))

[sullen cairn]

why do you explicitly make it amnh 680 and then gut the size

just say jimmadesni at that point

[stiff osprey]

i do find it funny that they predicted 680 being Allosaurus sp. in like 2015

[sullen cairn]

call it ceratosaurus sp. and pretend it's qg 65 because larramendi says it's ceratosaurus

problem solved

[stiff osprey]

my favorite allosauroid tibia!

[light osprey]

Feathers. Feathers everywhere

[sullen cairn]

when'd it become an allosauroid?
granted the most recent reference to it I could find was 2012

[stiff osprey]

it doesn't really have distinguishing features, it was considered an allosauroid in the first paper and then larramendi kinda just nah'd

if it's the one from subsaharan africa i'm thinking of

[sullen cairn]

zimbabwe

a couple papers ~2010 refer to it ceratosauria at least if I'm remembering correctly

[light oxide]

The same concept artist (MoriceMonkey93) also made concept art for the sauropods of the Morrison Formation, Prince Creek Formation, Yutyrannus, and Baryonyx:

[stiff osprey]

It's been so long since I saw a wisp tailed apatosaur

[compact leaf]

back when all their sauropods were megachunky

[sullen cairn]

carrano and sampson suggest ceratosauria

[stiff osprey]

it's a femur? thought it was a tibia

[sullen cairn]

you thinking of tendagurensis?

[stiff osprey]

possibly

[sullen cairn]

zimbabwe ceratosauria is two ~990 femora

Just checked and larramendi doesn't even mention carrano and sampson 2012 when talking about the thing

[light osprey]

Mmm look at that tasty Troodon

[sullen cairn]

bravo larramendi

[light oxide]

Troodon Moment

[light osprey]

Will we ever find more material? 🤷‍♂️ will it get its own genus and escape Troodon? 🤷‍♂️

[light oxide]

Troodon no longer exists -- it can no longer harm us. XD

[sullen cairn]

found marginally more information from rauhut and lopez-arbarello 2008

now what I don't get is how larramendi got it at 8.4m when it's 9.1m scaling with mortimer's measurements
larramendi undersizing a ceratosaurian feels wrong

[stiff osprey]

he does undersize a lot of abelisaurs

[sullen cairn]

and then there's his lametasaurus and dryptosauroides

[light oxide]

Different measurement techniques, maybe?

[stiff osprey]

shrimply pre-grillo

[sullen cairn]

grillcourt my beloved

i don't understand how larramendi absolutely butchered the indian majungasaurines but majungasaurus itself is spot on in length

[compact leaf]

I think he just gets a little trigger happy sometimes and applies the same techniques to animals that he shouldn't, like what happened in his 2020 titanosaur downsizing bender (granted some of those were warranted but still)

[sullen cairn]

and then there's this which i don't think I'll ever understand

[white matrix]

I love fluffy Pachyrhino so much

[storm heron]

Wasnt the post crania of Indosuchus re-assigned to Rahiolisaurus?

[somber tartan]

I found a thing that I like, and I wanted to point out that this guy and his tone of voice, like the entire way that he speaks, it’s like really perfect for capturing people’s attention, and the only other thing that I could think about while listening to him was like
If this guy were to talk real dinosaur facts to like, children, I feel he would really catch their attention, which would be really good because then children would actually listen to what he has to say, and learn actual dinosaur facts, not like those really bad children’s books that show inaccurate depictions of prehistoric life

[light osprey]

Lameta try not to have the worst taxon record challenge (impossible)

[lapis lintel]

does anyone have any knowledge or information on what ceratosaurus's crest was used for? i saw something online about an extended nasel... something? but i know its related to the carnotaurus in some ways... can someone help me out as i see a lot of different opinions (ceratosaurus is my favourite dinosaur)

[stiff osprey]

Most likely used for display, Cerato's crests are very thin and wouldn't be useful to hit anything with

I guess they could work as shades too, sort of like the eye stripes of big cats and some other animals

[lapis lintel]

so you think something like attracting a mate or something? like maybe the male would have a larger more colourful crest to impress a female?

[stiff osprey]

Definitely for the first half. But not necessarily the second, in dinosaurs males and females both have display structures

Trike's frill, Stego's plates, Dilo's crests, all are display structures and (as far as we know) both genders have 'em

[lapis lintel]

kinda disappointed that it wasn't used in any physical way but it makes more sense, similar to dilophosaurus's crest it probably wasn't very practical and had other unique uses

[tough parcel]

My theory is that we've only been discovering male dinosaurs because the females don't actually have the display structures, but instead there's like a single one female that everyone mates with B)

[stiff osprey]

Oh no

[lapis lintel]

i do love ceratosaurus though since it was the underdog of its time if i understand correctly and was able to hunt and compete with allosaurus and other similar carnivores as it wasn't as large... am i also correct in knowing that ceratosaurus would also hunt its own species?

[tough parcel]

It's like a reverse "Ring of Fire" dragon

[fallow stirrup]

Question

[tulip dove]

Probably wouldn't go after another same sized individual, but rather eat young individuals and probably scavenge dead Ceras

[fallow stirrup]

Do u guys think raptors like Utah raptor or Dakota raptor could mimic sounds like modern day birds?

[tulip dove]

Possible but there's not really any fossil evidence for it tho afaik

[light osprey]

Real?

[lapis lintel]

yeah i've heard and read a lot about cera but unfortunately its so difficult to find reliable information online so i don't know everything, it would definitely compete with larger carnivores though correct? i read somewhere that it could hunt allosaurus even though allo was larger

[tranquil quartz]

No

[tulip dove]

Afaik, they filled their own niche and probably avoided competing with the larger predators, like Allosaurus

[stiff osprey]

I've heard conflicting ideas on how Cerato hunted, some say it targeted proportionally larger prey because of its longer, more bladelike teeth, others say it targeted small prey because its skull was not very stress resistant

[fallow stirrup]

Oh ok just thought I’d ask cuz it kinda makes sense

[lapis lintel]

huh, well thanks for ur opinions on cera

[stiff osprey]

The Morrison was probably an african savannah type situation, with multiple predators competing for the same prey, but the prey is at such high number and diversity that they all coexist anyway

[lapis lintel]

as someone who is a falconer i would say no... the only carnivorous bird/raptor i would say could do something similar is a crow or raven, any corvid, those raptor's probably weren't as smart so its unlikely

[clever sable]

My conspiracy theory: all the spinos we have found are male and only the males have the big spino sail and the females have the shorter sail like in ichthyovenator

[magic jacinth]

Are synapsids basically highly derived reptiles that are mammal like or, there is not much connection besides being amniotes is there?

[tranquil quartz]

Doubt their syrinxs even allowed them to do so

[stiff osprey]

the females are sigilmassasaurus 🙂

[clever sable]

Obviously

[lapis lintel]

yeah they wouldn't have been intelligent enough to know how to mimic anyways, corvids have the mental age of a 7 year old so they'd need to be pretty smart XD

[stiff osprey]

Amniotes split into sauropsids (reptiles) and synapsids, so they are just separate amniote groups

[fallow stirrup]

That makes sense

[magic jacinth]

So they are apart of reptiliomorpha but that doesnt make them full on reptiles cause those are sauropsids?

[stiff osprey]

not familiar with reptiliomorpha, I'll check

[lapis lintel]

@fallow stirrup good question though, i think the misconception of jurassic park velociraptor being able to open doors has made people think they're smarter than they are, sure they were a lot smarter than any other dinosaur at the time being a dromeasaur but it wouldn't have been crow smart ^^

[stiff osprey]

Huh, yes they are reptiliomorphs, but not reptiles. I guess that makes sense since it translates to ''reptile-shaped'' and early synapsids looked a lot like reptiles, but still, very deceiving name

should just be amniotomorpha or something

[magic jacinth]

gotcha, I think reptiliomorphs was confusing me cause of its name having reptile in it.

[fallow stirrup]

Yh I sort of thought of crows and ravens and just mashed em together

[magic jacinth]

so many clades

[lapis lintel]

phahah np ^^

[fallow stirrup]

Another question is could mosasaurs of been venomous? They r related to monitor lizards r they not?

[tranquil quartz]

Maybe, doubt their venom would have really been potent though due to their bites

[stiff osprey]

They were almost certainly venomous, but in most monitors the venom has little to no effect in hunting, which probably was the case in mosasaurs

[fallow stirrup]

Makes sense

[tranquil quartz]

Yeah they weren’t killing anything with it

[stiff osprey]

Though if a mosasaur bit you and then let go you'd probably suffer some sort of horrendous side effect

Other than, y'know, the side effect of having a missing limb or large chunk of torso ripped out

[tranquil quartz]

The chance of surviving that is literally like 2%

[clever sable]

How do komodos even deliver their venom?

[stiff osprey]

Just gets in through the wounds made by the teeth, it's not injected like snakes

[tranquil quartz]

They ooze into their preys wounds almost

[clever sable]

So it's just in the saliva or something

[stiff osprey]

If they could inject it maybe it would be a lot more potent than it actually is

[tranquil quartz]

It serves its function for the komodo though

[bright veldt]

Venom seems to be minimal in varanoids in general

They’re most impactful in heleoderms but in that group it serves a defensive function

[tranquil quartz]

I have a question about toxins in general,
Have any palaeontologists estimated how likely it was for Temnospondyls to be poisonous?

Or atleast some members of Temnospondyli

[stiff osprey]

to my knowledge they have not, as amphibian poison sacs can't preserve under standard fossilization. But it probably appeared at least once considering it's present in all modern amphibians

[jagged trellis]

they probably had the brains to, but the vocal power? we don't know

esp seeing how wonky intelligence is

[ebon eagle]

That’s real life, not a video game played by people

[bronze storm]

Are you sure we are real

[bright veldt]

I mean you’re the one saying that said accurate sized megalania wouldn’t work because of more realistic reasons

[stiff osprey]

Not gonna lie, they're right. In a game you don't back off from a fight because you lost 0.01% health to a tail whip