paleontology

[nocturne gazelle]

I could take it

How nimble were the necks? Actually useful for catching fish?

[tough parcel]

https://sobekswimmingpool.wordpress.com/2021/05/30/what-sea-dragons-ate-plesiosaur-diets-revised/#:~:text=It would seem that at,by raking through the seafloor.

This will help with diets

[bright veldt]

Exactly what they were used for as always been a bit odd. But the best hypothesis is that they kinda work like sauropod necks. IE it allows them to react and feed over a much wider immediate area. They are more agile in that sense.

[nocturne gazelle]

So more like pot kai, less like bob elasmo

[bright veldt]

BoB elasmo is kind of the general idea but it's overexaggerated to the point of being basically on crack

[nocturne gazelle]

Less twisty?

[bright veldt]

yeah

[elfin pulsar]

I’m assuming also less at the speed of a bullet lol

[bright veldt]

you can see the range of motion here

[nocturne gazelle]

That's pretty good then

And on the diet of kai, is the filter feeding just one fringe theory or is that the more common theory?

[bright veldt]

It straight up was a filter feeder. Aristonectine elasmosaurs in general developed that feeding strategy. Kaiwhekea is more basal in the group, so it probably wasn't as developed as in mortuneria and aristonectes, but it probably still did it. Keep in mind I'm talking about substrate filter feeding, akin to gray whales, not surface filter feeding like other baleen whales, basking and whale sharks, and everybody else we associate with filter feeding.

[nocturne gazelle]

Sand sifting basically. Did it have the capability to still munch fish and have that biteforce or did it sacrefice all that for muh sand munchies?

[bright veldt]

who knows

[nocturne gazelle]

Guess the kais do. Thanks for the info

[scenic flame]

maybe in the future in game we'll getting some yummy looking patches of sand

[jagged aspen]

I read ur username for a sec and thought it was vivdskii, pronounced like that

[pearl briar]

it was named after a country in africa
i repeat, it was named after a country in africa

[tough parcel]

I'll say it in each one, but I feel like you don't need to put a "disclaimer" that it's a country in Africa
Anyone with half a non-racist braincell knows that

[woeful falcon]

Yeah idk why that needed to be said either

[honest wave]

Does anyone have a good reference for the skull of sinosauropteryx? Specifically looking for one that has been reconstructed to account for the deformation of the fossilization process.

Reason is I’m considering getting a tattoo of its skull and I want to get other folks’ opinions on which is most up to date

There are plenty of images online, but they are usually still in the rock matrix or are are depicting the tissue surrounding the bones, as well as ones that are overly simplified

[astral kelp]

I'd use hartmans sinosauropteryx skull maybe?

[drowsy narwhal]

Considering Leedsicthys is one of the expected playables, we might have something similar to this in the sense of a ball of krill or plankton.
Really not sure why they wanted Leedsicthys though.

[undone parcel]

largest bony fish plus its effectively a whale for things to hunt without being cenozoic

[light osprey]

Yet large Sauropods were a no go?

[woeful falcon]

Giant fish are in the water where there aren't concerns of managing it with varying elevations and navigating the foliage

[light osprey]

maybe they should’ve just made better maps

[woeful falcon]

There's probably other reasons, also considering leedsichthys is big but not THAT big. Its within the limit.

But this is paleo chat not pot chat

[clever sable]

Cool comparison ( credit to @tough parcel )

[novel atlas]

"Utahraptor." Nobody bats an eye.

"Nigersaurus." Everyone screams.

[still prairie]

Went to a computer club a few years ago and some black kids looked it up and was like hey its the REDACTED saurus!

[novel atlas]

Like, just a name of a country. It's like naming a dinosaur "Chadotitan."

[bright veldt]

Correction, deinosuchus is an alligatoroid. Might not seem like a major difference but deinosuchus’s lineage split off before proper gators and caimans did, which means it’s not really an alligator or caiman in the sense that we understand.

[clever sable]

Tbh, I don't really love deinosuchus that much, like it's really cool IG but it's not a favorite of mine, although I still main it in TI (idk why it's tail is so skinny in that game, but other than that great design) but yeah, deino is cool just not my favorite

[honest wave]

Yeah I wanted to use this but zooming in on the skull doesn’t give high enough resolution

[honest wave]

I’ve always thought it’d be funny if someone used giga in the generic name of something and gave it the specific name chadensis

Of course I don’t know how good of a region Chad is for fossil hunting

[white matrix]

Actually Deinosuchus and Alligators and Crocodiles would have been alive at the same time. Since Gators and Crocs have been around for at least 150 million years.

[bright veldt]

Crocodilians proper first appeared 95 million years ago or so. Everything before that is various relatives that aren’t actually crocodilians. It’s like how everybody goes on about sharks being around for 400 million years when that isn’t even true. Sharks first appeared during the Jurassic. Everything before that was wierd relatives that just kinda look like um.

[undone parcel]

if i remember correctly true crocodilians didnt appear till roughly around the KPG extinction event

everything before that was a crocodylomorph but not a proper crocodile

[bright veldt]

Deinosuchus is a proper crocodilian, specifically an alligatoroid, but it’s lineage split off before alligators and caiman did, so it’s kinda neither while still being related to them.

[undone parcel]

and Sarco is a Pholidosuchian so not a proper

[bright veldt]

Ye

[undone parcel]

still we say croc cause of convience

[clever sable]

It's still a crocodyliform and a crocodylomorph so it still has croc in a couple of it's classifications so saying it's a croc isn't technically incorrect (it might only be a crocodylomorph or only a crocodyliform, Im not too sure)

[undone parcel]

I know.. sarcos a Pholidosuchian but it looks enough like a proper croc to simply be refered to as one for convenience cause try explaining crocodylomorpha and true crocodilians to laymen and try not getting a headache

[clever sable]

Sarcosuchus is a cool fella (there was something wrong with that image when I posted it last time)

[undone parcel]

shame is didnt coexist with spino..but thats north africa for ya

[clever sable]

It did coexist with sucho though

[undone parcel]

sucho the poor mans spino that was too fat to swim

[clever sable]

I mean, depending on who you ask spino wouldn't have been all too great of a swimmer either

[bright veldt]

You say that when it’s was the apex predator in its ecosystem. Like, sarco’s it’s only competition and sucho’s still significantly larger.

[undone parcel]

being a great swimmer and being able to swim are to different things...i personally suggest it could punt like a hippo

[astral kelp]

Paraentelodon is cool

[undone parcel]

counterpoint deodon

[astral kelp]

Paraentelodon is significantly larger than daeodon and based on its tooth enamel it might have been more omnivorous/herbivorous than other entelodonts afaik

[undone parcel]

it wasnt as cool with Astogorgosuchus it coexisted with

[clever sable]

Astorgosuchus is the best fr fr

[undone parcel]

shame its...not terrible material but its not much

[astral kelp]

Paraentelodon is cooler, can't change my mind

[clever sable]

(I still think puru and sarco are cooler than astorgosuchus)

[undone parcel]

giant crocodile that could hunt Paraceratherium..smaller ones

[clever sable]

Giant crocodile that would hunt dinosaurs is cooler (talking about sarcosuchus specifically)

[undone parcel]

literally any decent sized crocodylomorph in the mesozoic

[clever sable]

Comparison between 2 different estimates of sarcosuchus

[undone parcel]

S. hartii was smaller most likely

[clever sable]

Yea, S. hartti is not in this image though

Hartti is the grey one

[undone parcel]

i just like the fact SA and Africa for a long time have the whole Morrison/Lourhina fauna thing with Oxalaia and Spino and here just a second Sarco species

[clever sable]

It's still 5.5 meters though lol

This is a 5.5 Meter crocodile so S. Hartti was about as big as this guy

[undone parcel]

RIP Lolong

[clever sable]

This is Cassius, lolong was 6.1 meters

[astral kelp]

meant to reply to this, it was abrasive food, possibly iirc plants with high fiber content that paraentelodon likely ate

[undone parcel]

its a entelodont...more then likley wouldnt turn down free meat

[astral kelp]

this is vegetation we're talking about not meat, but ofc it would eat meat

[undone parcel]

i know

[astral kelp]

sad lolong died on my birthday

[white matrix]

Lmao so sarco basically never went extinct

[blissful crescent]

SO WHO TF IS THE BIGGEST???

[clever sable]

Deino

[tough parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/bane-for-now-mask-gif-10084566

[clever sable]

❓

[astral kelp]

[clever sable]

Is there a new thing about an upsize for another croc or something and it's just not publicly available yet?

[tough parcel]

No, it's just people have called Fadeno's Deinosuchus size into question and Purussaurus' former estimates as well, so we might (if anyone takes another look at them) see a size change

[clever sable]

I do question fandenos deinosuchus but it still seems to be the largest (older estimates of his put it at 12-13 meters and 8-10 tonnes which is much more reasonable)

[undone parcel]

rhamposuchus the forgotten giant

[blissful crescent]

disappointing.. ik that planet dinosaur is out of date or smt but sarco looked quite large compared to charcar

[tough parcel]

IIRC the Sarco with Spino and Carchar in PD was meant to be an undescribed pholidosaur, but I forget where my source is for that so take it with a pinch of salt

[clever sable]

Sarco got hit with a hard downsize, ot went from 11.65 meters and 8+ tonnes to 9-9.5 meters and 4.3 tonnes

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/bane-ofcourse-batman-gif-5671318

[clever sable]

I think it's just based on the older sarco estimates but I could be wrong, ironically sarco is one of the better designs of the show

[undone parcel]

hard to screw up sarco to be honest

[blissful crescent]

oh my FJUIQEHGIQEKQJEGKJQHIEJGKJQEGQEGHHQEING god bruv

[clever sable]

Path of titans sarco:

[light osprey]

Now is the material Fadeno based his shtuff on still representing the largest specimens?

[chilly knot]

Yuh uh

https://twitter.com/NizarIbrahimPhD/status/1615108459061743616?t=z4h9Tp8O3F9e9XCLaJJFQw&s=19

Nizar Ibrahim, PhD on Twitter

It was a fun project + a great opportunity to bring my PhD research to the screen. Fun fact: Sarcosuchus (which did not live alongside Spinosaurus) was included as a stand-in for unnamed large KK pholidosaur. Similar story for Ouranosaurus (stand-in for mysterious KK ornithopod).

Twitter · Jan 16, 2023, 10:07 PM

[clever sable]

I'm still so sad that I accidentally encouraged random to downsize his sarcosuchus estimates lmfao

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/book-of-boba-fett-luke-skywalker-the-book-of-boba-fett-size-matters-not-size-doesnt-matter-gif-24738110

[tough parcel]

Probably, but it's hard to corroberate his stuff...someone should force random at gunpoint to look at it

[clever sable]

It does when your whole thing is being "the super croc"

[light osprey]

I don’t think that’s what Sarcosuchus means

[undone parcel]

flesh croc

[clever sable]

I should not have asked about the estimates you get for sarcosuchus based on terminonaris 💀 (it was indeed a mistake)

[lavish frigate]

Is any croc not a flesh croc💀

[undone parcel]

unless we get a bone croc

[clever sable]

I hope this man gets described soon

[chilly knot]

Ha ha ha (it's been over 10 years)

[light osprey]

Never getting described, cope

[chilly knot]

In the end it's just another single partial bone

[clever sable]

Do we know anything about it other than "big"

[chilly knot]

Perhaps, but I don't

[clever sable]

[astral kelp]

paraenteldon sweep

[astral kelp]

the jaw muscles in entelodonts are amazing

[bright veldt]

Where’s the 4.3 ton sarco estimate from? Haven’t heard that before.

[sullen cairn]

upper estimate from this https://academic.oup.com/iob/article/1/1/obz006/5418825?login=false

[light osprey]

I think someone else got similar results from some other method

[formal carbon]

Hello

[astral kelp]

Someone made a skeletal using daeodons body with paraentelodon "proportions" so we got a paraentelodon skeletal It seems?

[clever sable]

A paraceratherium? You mean paraentelodon?

[astral kelp]

Yeah paraentelodon, now we need somone to scale this with lambs and metasuchus's astorgo

[nocturne gazelle]

Strong hippo vibes ngl

[clever sable]

They are related iirc

[nocturne gazelle]

Well then hippo vibes check out

[flint stream]

Hi scanova

[clever sable]

Wait, so uh, how heavy did you think it was?

[bright veldt]

3.5 from random

[clever sable]

Same paper, just the lower estimate, also this

[bright veldt]

Fair

[pearl briar]

so... sarco is 9.5-10.13 meters long & 3.5-4.3 tons?

[clever sable]

No, it's 8.9-9.5 meters and 3.5-4.3 tonnes, the 10.13 meter, 5.4 tonne estimate is based on living Croc, based on terminonaris (a close relative) you get 8.9 meters

[pearl briar]

https://tenor.com/view/tyler-hynes-hynies-mechanics-of-love-ahh-i-see-i-see-gif-24549134

[clever sable]

@stiff osprey did I get that right or am I being stupid?

[stiff osprey]

yeah that's right

[clever sable]

Tbh I don't really think the 10.13 meter estimate is bad but I don't think the 8.9-9.5 meter estimate is more likely but 10.13 meters isn't impossible

[clever sable]

For this reason I usually say 9-10 meters

[pearl briar]

is sarco was a smth called "Crocodyliform" or a smth called "Pholidosaur"? (yes ik sarco wasn't even a crocodilian)

[heady thunder]

I think pholidosaurs are crocodyliforms so sarco is both.

[white matrix]

I will never understand how some people can see this bundle of rocks and go " oh yeah that's a dinosaur"

It's a juvenile parasaurolophus btw

[heady thunder]

Look harder.

[white matrix]

It literally looks like burned wood

[violet trellis]

Yeah if nobody told me it was a dinosaur I probably wouldn’t have realised it

[white matrix]

How do paleontologists even make money? Who pays them?

[cloud dagger]

University probably

[tiny holly]

Paleontology is not a lucrative field, and a lot of people in the field work 2nd (more stable) jobs

[sick cobalt]

Weight of triceratops and stegosaurus 2023 specimens?

[pearl briar]

behold
not-a-croc

[light osprey]

7.8 metres 7-8 tonnes for Stegosaurus, and I only know CMM 8862’s estimated total length, 9.7 metres.

[compact leaf]

if you do it right it absolutely can be a lucrative field, university faculty positions are the most common and they can make a good amount of money at least in the US

I’m not just spouting that either I know paleontologists personally that live comfortably from faculty positions, those that work for oil companies are even better off

[woeful falcon]

Define "if you do it right"

[honest wave]

If you were experienced enough it would stand out immediately as bone, but it definitely takes a bit to get used to it.

[compact leaf]

if you know how to get a job and don’t just leap into the field blind

it’s like anything else, you need to be able to find a job and understand what you’re looking for, if you can do that you’re in good shape

[astral kelp]

In canada they make around 65k-130k per year afaik

What dinosaurs are usually found in ethiopia, I know there is some acrocanthosaurus teeth in ethiopia assigned to acrocanthosaurus sp. but what else

I'm going too guess these are going to mostly be x dinosaur sp.

[compact leaf]

it’s mostly tooth taxa yeah, an unidentified theropod, a small ornithopod, a dromaeosaurid (maybe), and a brachiosaurid all known from teeth

[astral kelp]

Gotta love tooth taxa

[austere yarrow]

what requirements for path of titans for computer ?

[astral kelp]

#help #path-of-titans would be best too ask

[austere yarrow]

oh thanks ❤️

[wary panther]

You guys have still yet to prove Giganotosaurus had the intelligence in order to hunt sauropods

[ancient crystal]

Well this is an interesting conversation

[wary panther]

And this image is one I'm going to be referencing

[light osprey]

We can’t, neither can you. Having unremarkable intelligence is not a really a major factor my presumptuous peer

[astral kelp]

Again its already hard to understand how smart modern animals are let alone extinct ones

[wary panther]

Yes it is, No reptilian pack hunts the way you guys are saying it, And may I mind you they are much more advanced then there archosaur cousins

[light osprey]

Do you have an alternative prey selection for large bodied Carcharodontosaurids?

[elfin pulsar]

For sure

[wary panther]

I do, i'll explain it after slow chat

[light osprey]

Alright we’re getting somewhere I think

[sharp torrent]

Reminder that hyenas can problem solve and are on the same tier as a chimpanzee intelligence wise but nobody really talks about it.

[wary panther]

While yes, you guys could refer to the OTHER SAUROPODS, they are much to small to refer to the large ones we are talking about.

[light osprey]

So, they hunt Sauropods

[wary panther]

I should have been more specific in the Sauropods im refering to, They wouldn't be able to hunt the much large ones

[astral kelp]

candeleros monster

[wary panther]

Going back to the previous image, the one shown before

[astral kelp]

Why not? They were perfectly designed to do so

[wary panther]

Because biting it's butt isn't going to get it the meat in needs to survive

[light osprey]

Why not

[astral kelp]

caudeformalis would be a nice spot actually (ignore my spelling)

[light osprey]

Disables major locomotion, it’s immobilised. What’s to stop these big bois from becoming a snack

[wary panther]

I'm going to explain to you the amount of tearing the Giganotosaurus would need to do to the Sauropod for it to flesh graze meat, which wouldn't count as flesh grazing anymore

[sharp torrent]

Who says that it has to be from a single sauropod

[clever sable]

Archosaurs are a group of reptiles that includes dinosaurs, also fun fact, birds are reptiles and those guys are pretty intelligent, no I do agree with you that they wouldn't hunt massive healthy adult sauropods but you saying reptiles are not super intelligent isn't correct, Crocs have been known to use sticks to lure birds closer to them so they can attack iirc

[wary panther]

Again it's not going to disable locomotion if it can't use it's bite to slice effective places on the sauropod, It can't go for the leg nor can it go from the sides

[white matrix]

Hello, how can I change my referral code? I used wrong one instead of friends :/ thanks for the help!

[light osprey]

Why not

[wary panther]

While crocdilians which I do agree are very intelligent and so are birds, you have to understand that Archosaurus as a whole were composed of many other species of dinosaur, Birds aren't going to have the same intelligence as a Giganotosaurus because of how distantly related they are

[compact leaf]

idk if this will settle the argument but it didn’t need to hunt adult megasauropods all the time and it probably didn’t, there would be plenty of much easier to hunt smaller juvenile sauropods around, how smart it was really doesn’t have much to do with it

[light osprey]

Hunting is nuanced imagine that

[wary panther]

As I said before using the model provided, The giganotosaurus has no effective way of taking down large Sauropods, It's not going to be able to bleed it out due to how much blood sauropods are able to pump. Yet people still refuse to accept that.

We have animals such as komodo dragons with a similar tooth morph and a comparable size in the prey they hunt, Water buffalo

[compact leaf]

the caudofemoralis is a decent spot to bite if you can actually reach it, which wouldn’t be an easy feat when there’s legs kicking and a tail swinging at you

[sharp torrent]

Besides how can we accurately measure how intelligent. Yes we can model it’s brain size using the brain case, but since it’s not alive we cannot accurately measure it’s intelligence.

[wary panther]

And that's the problem, how much meat could be ripepd off for it to considered a viable hunting method

[elfin pulsar]

We can barely accurately measure the intelligence of stuff alive today

It also depends how we classify intelligence

[steep needle]

it was just said that they wouldn’t have gone for adult massive sauropods most of the time unless there are no other options

[heady thunder]

Bum eating.

[sharp torrent]

Apparently young, sick, old or injured sauropod just didn’t exist ig.

[light osprey]

I’m pretty sure there’s a greater weight disparity between Komodo Dragons and Water Buffalo

[sharp torrent]

Most komodos weigh around 150lbs or so, largest was 366lbs. Water Buffalo weigh between 1500 and 2645 lbs

[steep needle]

I don’t know why they’re using a single giga against a healthy sauropod as an example of what would commonly occur, because it’s likely that that wouldn’t have happened much if at all. Predators don’t risk their own health unless in severe stress with no other choice, and no way in hell would a lone giga risk death if it could just hunt smaller prey

[clever sable]

No, although it is believed carcharadontosaurids had a similar level of intelligence to carcharadontosaurids although we can't fully be sure of that, still not saying they hunted massive 50 tonne sauropods but calling them unintelligent isn't really accurate

[light osprey]

I entered in 200lbs to 2200lbs and got a 1:11 ratio

[sharp torrent]

Which means they’re hunting something that can be like 10 times it’s size, or even more.

[bright veldt]

Giganotosaurus coexisted with plenty of more reasonable sauropods. Not every sauropod in a given region was an Argentinosaurus. This also isn’t even considering how sauropods were r-selected and likely had way more immature animals in a given region than proper adults.

[astral kelp]

giga didn't even live with argent

[clever sable]

Hunting water buffalo isn't exactly a common thing

[bright veldt]

Also while Komodo dragons do hunt buffalo, it is a rare occurrence and even rarer still to succeed.

[light osprey]

And 8 tonne theropod and an 80 ton sauropod has an 1:10 ratio, not to mention that giganotosaurus likely exceeded this size, and the largest sauropods have estimates which range a bit lower than this

[clever sable]

Nothing that lived with giga was an Argentinosaurus............

[compact leaf]

yeah not being able to be hunted as adults was kind of their whole thing, if you’re safe as a healthy adult it means you can pop out a lot more babies

[bright veldt]

I meant as in, yknow, 30 meters and over 50 tons. I know the two don’t coexist so relax lol

[astral kelp]

Although it seems Giga didn't really hunt rebacchisaurs a lot

[chilly knot]

Young Sauropod: I can't wait to be a giant adult!

The local Giganotosaurus that hasn't eaten for weeks:

[light osprey]

The youngins and maybe even the sub adults of those larger guys would do just fine

[bright veldt]

Even adult sauropods having predators isn’t really a revolutionary concept, but at the same time the “megasauropods” were probably outright immune to predation as healthy adults. I doubt even a group of mapusaurus is tackling a healthy adult Argentinosaurus.

[light osprey]

Suggesting that they can’t hunt any of these Sauropods was the first mistake in the argument.

[bright veldt]

There’s just a certain point where you’re way too thick to be worth it. Even discounting the risk of injury it would likely be way too much energy to be worth it.

Shoutout to a subadult blue whale taking 5 hours to die from 50 orcas

[light osprey]

what

[bright veldt]

It happened off Australia a few years back. A mega pod of 50 orcas took out a subadult blue whale. It took them 5 hours to do it.

[light osprey]

Bonkers.

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/godzilla-godzilla-vs-megaguirus-meganula-swarm-attack-gif-24432901

[light osprey]

Rb for megapacking smh

[iron halo]

Kos orca megapack at au

[sharp torrent]

Based blue whale

[stiff osprey]

Fewer orcas have taken down young blue whales in way shorter amounts of time, so I think that was just a skill issue on the orca's part

Or they were dealing with the most pro blue whale player that ever lived

[light osprey]

Top 1% blue whale player

[astral kelp]

chad astorgosuchus enjoyer vs sigma paraentelodon enjoyer

[bright veldt]

Yeah I’m reading similar occurrences and they usually don’t take as long.

[clever sable]

Reptiles > mammals, specifically Crocs, Crocs are just so good at everything they do

[astral kelp]

Running Speed:

[bright veldt]

I mean the terrestrial varieties exist

[clever sable]

The so called age of mammals when the largest terrestrial predator is a croc:

[astral kelp]

How much does barinasuchus weigh?

[clever sable]

1,700 KG

[astral kelp]

Paraentelodon when it weighs the same (sorta)

[light osprey]

I think it’s called the age of mammals because they rapidly diversified

[clever sable]

Well technically some estimates for barinosuchus put it even higher but those aren't exactly credible

[astral kelp]

same with paraentelodon you can get up too 2000kg via tooth scaling

[light osprey]

Also if crocs are so good then why is Crocodilia the only surviving clade? 💅

[stiff osprey]

eocene mass extinction go brr

[sharp torrent]

🐊🔛🔝

[chilly knot]

I mean, didn't you just answered it by yourself

[astral kelp]

[compact leaf]

say what you will but the group can take hits like nobody’s business

[sharp torrent]

Crocs during the kt extinction: “Tis but a scratch”

[wary panther]

Alright

I don't want to argue about giganotosaurus being able to hunt Adult Sauropods, I'd rather chill with some paleo nerds and just talk about dinosaurs, Sorry for the trouble

So, does anyone have an opinion on why Tyrannosaurs are carried by Tyrannosaurs Rex?

I mean every other Tyrannosaurid, Albertosaurus, Gorgosaurus, Tarbosaurus, and of course, lythronax don't reach the same size of Tyrannosaurs Rex. Comparing that to other much larger theropods such As giganotosaurus The tyrannosaur family is really small

[elfin pulsar]

Wdym?

[wary panther]

The tyrannosaur family is so small when it comes to large specimens

[woeful falcon]

Rex is an extremity

But even so, Carcharodontosaurids aren't all that huge either. Conca is a good example

[wary panther]

But to be fair, The Carchardontosaurids have much going for them in size compared to the Tyrannosarids

[small geyser]

Rex is just the most well known and unique of the Tyrannosaurids. There are anatomical features exclusive to the genus not found in other Tyrannosaurids such as the wide skull.

[wary panther]

Tarbosaurus co-existed with large sauropods and had adaptions more similar to that of a Carchardontosaur instead of a tyrannosaur

If no one wants to answer that question, anyone know what Spinosaurus was adapted for besides fish? As of right now it's very slow, and could barely hold itself up, But considering how large the fauna was during that time, Such as the plenty amount of carnivores running around, isn't it fairly strangle that Spinosaurus, Possibly the largest spinosaur, simply be adapted to fish, when it's cousin such a baryonx were more land adapted

[light osprey]

Zhuchengtyrannus and the Udurchukan Formation has big Tyrannosaur remains

[wary panther]

They pale in comparison to other large Mega Theropods, Which is why Tyrannosaurs rex is considered one of the only Mega Theropods in it's family, as tarbosaurus and Zhchengtyrannus are in the 5 ton range

[light osprey]

5 tonnes sounds pretty big to me 🥱

[wary panther]

Not as big as say 10 tons, or 9 tons, nor 8 tons, Which is what all mega theropods are ranked by, above 5 ton range, Which isn't small but isn't comparable considering how big they could have gotten

[light osprey]

I heard above 3 tonnes is the megatheropod category

[clever sable]

Because it's the largest terrestrial carnivore ever (possibly, giga may have been larger)

[wary panther]

It's not, then yutyrannus would be considered a mega theropod, which is not

[woeful falcon]

There's also probably a lot of tyrannosaurids more closely related to rex that we don't yet know about that are large

[chilly knot]

Yuty isnt 3t tho

[wary panther]

Well that's the problem, Tyrannosaurs are known from semi large creatures, Nothing large. If we compare that to Giganotosaurus and it's family, you can see a clear difference. They had much large builds and it had been very consistent.

[light osprey]

Megalosauroidae getting forgotten when it comes to big theropods

[woeful falcon]

I think you're looking too much at Carcharodontosaurines as if they're the entire family.

[wary panther]

What about spinosaurs? They are large as well

[bright veldt]

Spinosaurs are consistently the largest predators in their ecosystems, without fail.

[wary panther]

See?

[woeful falcon]

Gonna blow your mind but that's how it was for tyrannosaurs too

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/are-you-sure-about-that-the-rock-you-sure-gif-24604462

[scenic flame]

I suppose you could say depending on your estimates, spinosaurus was an exception, but other than that afaik Scan is right

[bright veldt]

I wouldn’t call tyrannosaurs small though. Tyrannosaurus is just so exceptionally large it doesn’t do the rest any favors. They’re still cool in other ways though, such as the fact that tyrannosauroids are the predatory theropod group with the most evidence of sociality.

[wary panther]

Considering the fact that Tyrannosaurus were always small when other larger predators were in the ecosystem, or were semi large when it came to them taking over, I really don't see how they went from decent, to having an extremely advanced indivaul which rivals all other mega theropods

[bronze storm]

Do you have anymore, it is incredibly pleasant to look at

[light osprey]

I bet there’s a big Central American Tyrannosaur we didn’t find

[bright veldt]

To the point where the dynamics of said social groups might’ve been a good reason why their arms got so small.

[scenic flame]

I have this by falcon, the spinosaur one is by dino dan, and above that idk

[woeful falcon]

What ecosystems did tyrannosaurs inhabit where they weren't the largest terrestrial predators

[wary panther]

The problem is that other tyrannosaurids either were medium sized theropods, or barely capped large. T.Rex is the only one in the family which decide to become large

[light osprey]

Wait what’s the discussion here exactly.

[wary panther]

Why do tyrannosaurs get carried by tyrannosaurs rex alone when it comes to adpatations,Size,Intelligence

[scenic flame]

there's a very basal Tyrannosauroid from Uzbekistan that lived along side a carcharodontosaur larger than it

[light osprey]

Because.

[astral kelp]

Timerlungia or smth iirc

[woeful falcon]

Tyrannosaurid I mean.

I would contend a 5 ton tarbosaurus and a 3 ton Daspletosaurus are quite large.

[wary panther]

Alright them me grab a diagram for example

[scenic flame]

1. preservation bias
2. Zhuechengtyrannus and Tarbosaurus
3. your definition of medium size here given the context is very flawed

[bright veldt]

Pretty sure said carchar is dubious now tho cause the remains were garbage

[scenic flame]

shame

[light osprey]

It’s a traditionally cursorial lineage, Tyrannosauroidae broadly at least. That might play a part. Or simply you could say they are as big as they need to be

[wary panther]

Look at this absolute unit

[clever sable]

Carcharadontosaurus was larger than spinosaurus

[bright veldt]

There would’ve been less of a reason to get to said rediculous sizes if they were social animals. There’s a point where your numbers outweigh the need for large body sizes. If everyone in your group is a unit that just means uneccesary higher food intake. Although, again, they’re still very large animals and T. rex just inflates it and makes the rest look smaller

[wary panther]

Compare that to any other tyrannosaurid,Tyrannoroid, nothing comes close to size,intelligence,adaptations which is strange at the best

[astral kelp]

Spinosaurus aegypticaus itself was iirc 3-4t, MSNM was 7.8-8t (this mean if it is spino or not)

[bright veldt]

From what I currently understand, carchar is 7 tons while “spino” is 7.5

[clever sable]

Largest carch was 8.4 tonnes iirc, technically it might be over 10 but that over 10 estimate is based on meraxes

[small geyser]

Size and adaptations makes perfect sense when you look at the other dinosaurs Rex lived with.

[wary panther]

And may I mind you the size of the mega fauna rex co-existed with?

[bright veldt]

Source

[astral kelp]

You can also get 10t carchar scaling off of meraxes too afaik

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/armstrong-made-it-up-gif-25653819

[bright veldt]

Keep in mind with the exception of acheroraptor literally every described dino from the Hell Creek formation is the largest of its clade, or very close to it. Like, every single one. It’s kinda hilarious.

[scenic flame]

I still don't think it really makes much sense to say Carchars are generally larger

[clever sable]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1GVpHchzogtjkTqQrP7PFM2BAWMGHYHABD-Xnk_6KPj0/htmlview?pli=1#gid=0 I got it from this spreadsheet, most people I've asked seem to agree it's pretty reliable

[wary panther]

They still get out classed

[light osprey]

Preservation bias can also play role in this

[scenic flame]

given we have several tyrannosaurus that are bigger than the bottom 50% shown here, there's at least another 5 tyrannosaurus as big or bigger than dasp and co. shown here

[astral kelp]

That chart needs to be updated its been said it shouldnt be used

[bright veldt]

I consider stuff like that reliable if it at least describes the process of how that was reached or there’s some physical evidence (like a gdi image by someone). This don’t mean squat to me. This won’t hold up as a viable source.

[wary panther]

But then again, you have to try and start connecting dots here, Did a tyrannosaur exist in South America? Or maybe a Tyrannosaur moved down there, Even then, there hadn't been much fauna there to support it

[astral kelp]

In the end it doesn't really matter when the creator of the chart and others have said it shouldn't be used

[bright veldt]

Megaraptorans are probably tyrannosauroids if that’s what ur saying.

[scenic flame]

you can see it in their eyes

[light osprey]

No I meant the depositional biases. Certain environments stink at preserving fossils

[wary panther]

Not only that, but Alamosaurus, a creature that barely migrated into N.America, was somehow hunted in the last millions years rex was around

[clever sable]

Hmmmm, interesting

[woeful falcon]

What's this mean

[frail robin]

Spinosaurus itself evolved such an extreme water-based lyfestyle to avoid competing with large carnivores such as Carcharadontosaurus. By avoiding to eat any land-based animals, it was able to live freely, without the worry of not being as good as Carcharadontosaurus at hunting. And seeing as Spinosaurids in general would need a lot of time and evolutionary changes to be free from their ties to water, that was the right choice.

[scenic flame]

wdym hunted? and what is your source that it "barely" migrated into N America

[wary panther]

You don't know that Alamosaurus is an invasive Speices?

[light osprey]

Barely? They were as far north as Wyoming

[scenic flame]

no, what do you mean barely migrated

[frail robin]

Alamosaurus was invasive?

[bright veldt]

Debated. A ghost lineage is still a decent possibility.

[clever sable]

Ok the 10.5 giganotosaurus estimate is based on a GDI by toxic midget but in not completely sure what the carch estimate is based on, I know none of the estimates are by the guy who made the chart and that it's just a collection of estimates so I will be back once I find a source for the 8.4 tonne estimate

[wary panther]

When I'm referring to barely i'm not saying they didn't cover much ground, I'm saying it didn't reach much of N.America to compared the other native species

[bright veldt]

Likely due to environmental reasons. Alamosaurs (and a lot of titanosaurs tbh) liked open arid spaces. Further north was a lot more wet and forested.

[scenic flame]

considering the giant mountian range and sea in the way and that alamo is far, far, far, far from special in that regard, I would disagree that it "barely" migrated

[light osprey]

It’s a South American radiation so idk

[wary panther]

Also considering the Adaptions Rex didn't have to hunt alamosaurus, yet did, means that it would of housed more Adaptions then most Tyrannosaurids would have

[bright veldt]

We don’t have any evidence of tyrannosaurus hunting alamosaurs. Im not gunna discount the possibility but there was like half a dozen other large prey items lmao.

[wary panther]

We do, We have a tooth found in one of the bones

[woeful falcon]

Most tyrannosaurids don't have adaptations for hunting sauropods save for tarbo, that I'm aware of anyway

[bright veldt]

That means nothing when a dead large sauropod is the equivalent of a whale fall and would likely get visited by every predator in the region for weeks.

[scenic flame]

you also don't need to have adaptations to hunt something if your base tools are good enough

[clever sable]

Kinda funny that these 2 guys belong to the same genus (although the palaeoloxodon on the right is not the best of estimates because the material is missing)

[wary panther]

That excuse is used for triceratops, Yet we know that Tyrannosaurs hunted it due to the bite marks founds on Ceratops Frills

[light osprey]

I still don’t buy Alamosaurus being an Opithocoelicaudinae

[scenic flame]

to add to that, healed bone with said tooth would provide better evidence

[bright veldt]

First of all, said wounds are healed. Second, you miss the part where a sauropod is so big that it would get scavenged by every carnivore in the region for weeks. I can expect a triceratops to get monopolized pretty quickly but you can’t do that with a giant sauropod.

[clever sable]

Is someone seriously saying rex hunted Alamosaurus 💀

[light osprey]

That’s because we can find pre mortem pathologies, and because they make 40% of the Hell Creek fauna so something must have hunted it

[wary panther]

That doesn't excuse the fact that Juvis, or young indivuals could be hunted by Tyrannosaurs,

[scenic flame]

I do think it's reasonable for tyrannosaurus to have hunted alamo, at least younger ones

[chilly knot]

^

[wary panther]

Hold up for a second, I'm not saying T.rex hunted adult Almaos. I'm saying it hunted the sauropod in general, Regardless of age

[bright veldt]

I mean I never said they wouldn’t, but you’re really just assuming they did with absolute certainty where there’s nothing saying so. Im surprised you’re not going in-depth with tarbosaurus considering we actually have evidence for sauropods as a major part of their diet alongside hadrosaurs.

[light osprey]

Any nerds here know what the Mesopelagic actually zone looks like? How much sunlight reaches it n stuff

[wary panther]

Tarbosaurus had the adaptations for hunting Sauropods, Tyrannosaurus Rex didn't, Yet we know that Alamosaurus was still hunted regardless somehow, Even though Tyrannosaurus Rex doesn't have a build for hunting Sauropods

[clever sable]

How big was Alamosaurus anyways? I keep hearing like 50 tonnes but I also hear 80 but even sometimes as low as 30

[wary panther]

50 tonnes

[light osprey]

Down south Tyrannosaurus’s diet is pretty similar, Gryposaurus and Torosaurus in place of Edmontosaurus, and Triceratops

[scenic flame]

but it's build didn't prevent it from hunting sauropods completely, being worse than tarbo doesn't mean rex physically can't hunt sauropod

[bright veldt]

Like 40 tons last I heard? I think the giant individuals were misidentified or something.

[astral kelp]

Don't we have alamosaurus remains alongside rex teeth? (not to say this is evidence of it 100% hunting it)

[light osprey]

Okay, so they were misidentified thank you

[wary panther]

Considering how large Tyrannosaurs could get and how it's build is ment to overpower other creatures I don't see how it's going to overpower a Sauropod

[scenic flame]

tarbosaurus also hunted ankylosaurus, but wasn't as robust as tyrannosaurus

[wary panther]

They didn't hunt Ankylosuaurs, You must have mistaken it for a smaller species of Ankylosaur that was indeed less robust than Ankylosaurs

[tough parcel]

How I sleep knowing about the North Horn carcharodontosaurids

[scenic flame]

wait do you think theropods kill large saurpods by over powering them? They don't, they wear them down, and I meant ankylosaurs, it was a typo

[astral kelp]

There is a tarchia specimen that was likely bitten by a tarbosaurus afaik.

[clever sable]

Ankylosaurs isn't a specific genus, I believe you're thinking of ankylosaurus

[light osprey]

Tarchia is one of the biggest Ankylosaurs

[wary panther]

Tarchia isn't as large as Ankylosaurus

[scenic flame]

theropods would most liekly attampt to take out the muscles in the base of the tail as it's the safest spot and the most effective

[wary panther]

How is tyrannosaurs suppose to take it down when it doesn't have teeth meant slice flesh?

[scenic flame]

by biting the sauropod

[clever sable]

It can still rip out chunks of flesh

[wary panther]

A robust Alamosaur?

[light osprey]

Tyrannnosaurs still have serrated teeth what’s the big issue

[bright veldt]

Both carcharodontosaurs and tyrannosaurs were giant, slow, muscular theropods with tiny arms and giant heads. They had similar ecology, with the different styles of teeth likely going more into their feeding rather than hunting strategies.

[scenic flame]

last I checked alamosaurids aren't particularly robust

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-rising-metal-gear-raiden-metal-gear-ray-super-strength-gif-14889306

[wary panther]

Carcharodontosaurus had the better hunting stratgies when it came to hunting Sauropods

[bright veldt]

Who says?

[wary panther]

Long legs, Shark Like Teeth, Diet, Hunting Style have all joined the chat

[compact leaf]

we’re still assuming either one would be going after a healthy adult, plenty of juveniles around

[small geyser]

I'm just gonna sit back and watch this.

[scenic flame]

also rex being worse at taking down a sauropod comapred to tarbo does not mean it arbitrarily impossible for it to take one down at all, just like how an average person can still run despite not being as fast as an olimpic sprinter

[chilly knot]

Those aren't "strategies" those are adaptations

[light osprey]

I wonder if Majungasaurus hunted Rapetosaurus

[scenic flame]

last I checked hunting styles don't fossilize, it's like saying having long legs to run fast is a good strategy

[bright veldt]

Half of that stuff isn’t backed up by anything? Also, tyrannosaurids are the more cursorial animals. Idk what long legs have to do with that when trying to gain height on a sauropod in any way’s useless.

[wary panther]

Rex would have an extremely hard time taking down a sauropod. It can't flesh graze similar to other large theropods that hunt Sauropods

[compact leaf]

the juveniles were likely on the menu

[scenic flame]

flesh grazing is a paleo-meme that has fallen out of favour

[wary panther]

Carcardontosaurus have longer legs, giving them a much faster speed then the larger Tyrannosaurs

[clever sable]

Exactly

[compact leaf]

flesh grazing went out of style a while back, it assumes that a sauropod would let a predator anywhere near it without just crushing it

[woeful falcon]

All one larger tyrannosaur

[scenic flame]

this is not true, nor is that the only adaptation relevant

[bright veldt]

The current speed estimates have tyrannosaurus as the fastest giant theropod lol. Tyrannosaurids are more cursorial than carcharodontosaurs are.

[clever sable]

Not really, the largest giga specimen gets 25 km/h roughly the same as Sue and Scotty

[wary panther]

They don't have Tyrannosaur Rex as the fastest Mega theropod, you must be referring to how agile they are.

[bright veldt]

Also when does running speed matter when hunting a sauropod lmao

[light osprey]

Carcharodontosaurs are not as fleet footed as the Tyrannosauroids that much is clear

[clever sable]

Okay -- here ye go:

Speed calculation for MUCPv-95:

---

• Weight: 8000+ kg

  • Optimal Cadence: 1.5
  • Optimal Stride Ratio: 1.6

• Total Leg Length from MUCPv-Ch1: 3180 mm

• Size Increase estimate for MUCPv-95: 6.6%

• (T+M)÷F Ratio from MUCPv-Ch1: 1.22 ~= 1.2 - 1.3

  • Optimal Cadence: 0.92
  • Optimal Stride Ratio: 0.88
  • Leg Length of MUCPv-95: 3180 × 1.066 = 3,389.88 mm

• Cadence Result: 1.5 × 0.92 = 1.38

• Stride Length Result: 1.6 × 0.88 = 1.408

  • Velocity: (3389.88 × 1.38 × 1.408) × 0.0036 = 23.7120207667 km/h ~= 23.71 km/h

---

So the Giganotosaurus specimen MUCPv-95 has a rough estimated velocity of 23.71 km/h.

[scenic flame]

tyrannosaurids have a longer proportionally femur length in general

[wary panther]

Don't they have a much shorter, robust femur than other theropods?

[clever sable]

Read the thing I posted

[bright veldt]

No. Tyrannosaurids are more cursorial in general. Although, both were already slow and idk what running speed has to do with hunting a giant sauropod.

[woeful falcon]

Tyrannosaurs are leggy monsters

[wary panther]

That proves my point, Giganotosaurus is better adpated at taking Sauropods than Rex is

[clever sable]

It's roughly the same speed as rex

[wary panther]

What does running speed have to not do with attacking a sauropod? The faster and larger you are the more chances you have in attacking them without being stomped

[tough parcel]

For anyone curious on tyrannosaur leg proportions

[light osprey]

what the hell is being debated rn

[bright veldt]

Also keep in mind that you’re kinda missing the forest for the trees here when said sauropod quarry between the two was different. Giganotosaurus coexisted with smaller sauropods that were actually realistic to tackle even as adults. Meanwhile rex has the 40 ton alamosaurus.

[scenic flame]

no, tyrannosaurs are very cursorial for their size

[astral kelp]

Giga's femur for MUCPv-Ch1 is like

1.43m

Scotty's femur is 1.26m (?)

[clever sable]

Hey uh falcon, your smart, is there a source for an 8+ tonne carcharadontosaurus GDI?

[tough parcel]

Giga had the Candeleros Giant/Monster, a very simarily sized animal (or bigger) than Alamo

Also @clever sable private :)

[wary panther]

Alamaosaurus reached 50 tons, and Rex wouldn't be able to used the forest as an advantage if it has to take down the Sauropod

[scenic flame]

oh, I meant shins, got my bones mixed up

[light osprey]

I’ve heard it exceeds Patagotitan

[clever sable]

but there is a GDI for it?

[wary panther]

Anyone have a GDI of tyrannosaurs rex compared to it's family?

[chilly knot]

Yea (Ig)

[astral kelp]

https://thesauropodomorphlair.wordpress.com/2020/06/04/the-candeleros-monster there is a dedicated blog made by SIW

[tough parcel]

Not seen it personally but...maybe...maybe

[clever sable]

So spinosaurus indeed was not the largest theropod in it's environment....... (Possibly)

[bright veldt]

Im saying that giga actually had realistic options even among adults of the species. Rex only has Alamo.

[wary panther]

We don't know that

[light osprey]

Newer Tarbosaurus material suggests it got a lil bigger than previously thought as well, for those talking about Tyrannosaurs being small

[chilly knot]

Nonetheless 8t is entirely possible for carcharodontosaurus

[tough parcel]

Fair, but there's also the issue of Alamo being a possible wastebasket taxon, where all Cretaceous sauropods in NA are labeled as Alamosaurus

[light osprey]

Maybe they all were

[clever sable]

Given that the largest spinosaurus specimen might not even be spinosaurus i think there is a pretty good chance it was not the largest theropod in it's environment

[astral kelp]

Whats also the thing with getting 10t scaling off of meraxes or something? (for carch)

[wary panther]

Because there were no present Sauropods in N. America besides Alamosaurus

[chilly knot]

Nuh uh (doubt it)

[tough parcel]

Re-read what I said, Alamosaurus might be a wastebasket taxon

[wary panther]

To be fair, what else could any other Sauropod be?

[clever sable]

Poor Alamosaurus

[astral kelp]

I know its unreliable but I remember beag mentioned something about it

[tough parcel]

It could be a new species not yet properly looked at? Idk what you want me to say lol

[light osprey]

Alamosaurus sp. 👹

[wary panther]

That would change the landscape so much that we wouldn't be able to track it in a timeline

[astral kelp]

wait nvm random answered it a while back

[stiff osprey]

Hot take: Tyrannosaurus did hunt adult Alamosaurus

The 40 tonne specimen is an outlier, and perhaps as result of being a wastebasket taxon, we have histologically adult individuals that are half as big or less

[clever sable]

Speaking of uhhh, dinosaurs what is the general consensus in oxalaia?

[tough parcel]

It wouldn't because we'd have the same amount of sauropods, they're just differently named

[scenic flame]

a waste basket taxon would be a taxon that as material under it that shouldn't be, so alamo might have several specimens which should be a seperated species or genus

[compact leaf]

the thought of having to deal with alamo (or any titanosaur) being a wastebasket is terrifying

[light osprey]

I’m all for Alamosaurus speciation

[clever sable]

I remember when Alamosaurus was a contender for largest sauropod 😔

[undone parcel]

for all we know the southern supposed tyrannosaurus subpopulation adapted to tackling Alamosaurus

[wary panther]

That's fair, But again, We can barely track alamosaurus to when it migrated to North America, Image what would happen if they found another Sauropod in N.America?

[tough parcel]

It'd have to be mostly behaviorially

[chilly knot]

Another beautiful day without caring about oxalaia

[scenic flame]

*if it migrated

[undone parcel]

hey Oxa is valid in my heart

[bright veldt]

Yeah, again, ghost lineage is a possibility.

[compact leaf]

titanosaurs are a mess already, there’s a lot of material that I guarantee will get shuffled around if someone actually takes a closer look at it (towards the basal end a lot of things probably aren’t even titanosaurs)

[wary panther]

You mean Fakeosaurus?

[light osprey]

Oxalaia is valid… a valid species of Spinosaurus haha 👹

[scenic flame]

also a migration is irrelevant to it being a waste basket taxon

[clever sable]

Idk bro, it seems to be spinosaurus, lots of similarities, especially with how the material was destroyed

[undone parcel]

oh my god this clearly spinosaur might look like spinosaurus, we are entering the Baryonyx/Suchomimus debate

[light osprey]

Spinosaurus is the new Megalosaurus

[wary panther]

That's a fair point, but again, If it isn't an alamosaurus, what on earth could it be? And if it's another sauropod we run into other problems to when it existed and for how long it existed in N.america

[honest wave]

Guys what if nanontyrannus is actually a juvenile spinosaurus

[undone parcel]

montanaspinus moment

[clever sable]

Oxalaia is the definition of fragmentary

[scenic flame]

when isn't an issue if the specimen is dated, if it is alamosaurus it would be a new species of alamosaurus, or a new genus

[honest wave]

Par for the course for spinosaurids lol

[astral kelp]

acrocanthosaurus tooth in ethiopia:

[wary panther]

Maybe it's just Alamosaurus that became more suited to N.America?

[undone parcel]

korean acro

[clever sable]

Spinosaurus itself isn't really that fragmentary

[scenic flame]

this is essentially the same thing as when troodon was split into laten and stenon, though I afaik alamo itself would still be valid

[chilly knot]

Also in korea

[compact leaf]

there were other sauropod lineages present in NA as late as the cenomanian, it’s possible for one of them to have persisted undetected it’s happened before, besides that it could just be another titanosaur that got there the same way alamosaurus did

[honest wave]

Spinosaurus, oddly enough, is an outlier in that it is relatively complete for a spinosaurid

[light osprey]

I feel like I know nothing about most of the pacific Mesozoic fossil record, what’s cooking over there

[undone parcel]

isnt Alamo a Nemegtosaur or OPisthocauldine

[wary panther]

That's a fair point, or maybe it's just alamosaurus

[clever sable]

I like 3D skeletals

[light osprey]

If it’s an Opisthocoelicaudinae than it would be a South American radiation

[clever sable]

Or well, 3D skeletal isn't actually what it's called, technically it's just called a 3d model

[honest wave]

It’s actually a derived sauropodomorph

[scenic flame]

I don't think you understand, hopefully this will explain

[wary panther]

Oh, alright that makes more sense

[white matrix]

Guys i got a question, can i get a comparison of allosaurus fragilis next to allosaurus europeas?

[scenic flame]

circles represent a specimen

[white matrix]

Tysm

[wary panther]

Still confused on one thing when it comes to tyrannosaurs rex, Why in god's name did it become so BIG?!

[scenic flame]

so this sauropod would be another new sauropod that lived with alamo, or just before, or just after, depending on the estimates of the specimens

[clever sable]

Because it's prey was big (oversimplification but whatever)

[honest wave]

A. amplexus my beloved

[wary panther]

Lions would disagree with you

[scenic flame]

same reason Russia and the US have so many nukes

[undone parcel]

why did tyrannosaurs become big? well when the local apexes go extinctyou have a power vacuum

[white matrix]

Why is saurophaganax sub adult giga sized..

[clever sable]

Lions when they get assaulted by a large male Nile crocodile:

[light osprey]

The arms race lol

[honest wave]

They became big because there was food to exploit and nothing to make getting big disadvantageous

[astral kelp]

A. maximus (im on the side of it being a basal carcharodontosaurid)

[wary panther]

Tyrannosaurs had a power vacum for 10 million years and Rex is the only one to become so large

[light osprey]

10my?

[wary panther]

Nile crocodile when their very distant cousin gets mauled by a jaguar:

[clever sable]

Zhuchengtyrannus may have actually Also gotten very large, there is an undescribed vertebrae that's roughly the size of Sue's largest vertebrae iirc

[undone parcel]

siats my beloved why did you fail to stop the tyrannosaur uprising

[keen forum]

yeah carch is massive

[chilly knot]

Caimans are fodder anyways

[astral kelp]

that's it being SCALED with Sue's vertebrae I think

[wary panther]

Stop the cap, they can get very large

[clever sable]

Large male black Caimans still get killed by jaguars

[undone parcel]

black caiman specifically

[light osprey]

Albertosaurus left the chat

[white matrix]

Look trex big cuz it big.

[small geyser]

Prehistoric animals are cool, huh? (Just trying to prevent the mods from bonking us.)

[wary panther]

Daspeltosaurus, Gorgosaurus joined the chat

[clever sable]

No, there is an undescribed vert about as big a sues

[undone parcel]

and in response its prey got big and trike lost its frill holes

[chilly knot]

Black caiman, still fodder

[astral kelp]

source

[light osprey]

You said 10 million year power vacuum, I just filled it

[wary panther]

My bad brah

[clever sable]

One sec, I posted the link a while ago, time to go find it again

[undone parcel]

a big enough Black caiman is top of the food chain

[chilly knot]

https://twitter.com/Dave_Hone/status/1494673043217850368

Dr Dave Hone (@Dave_Hone)

Since I've finally remembered to do #FossilFriday and the new @pnso_official #Zhuchengtyrannus model is getting lots of attention it's time to bring out this photo that I've sat on for like, a decade.

Twitter · Feb 18, 2022, 1:59 PM

[tough parcel]

https://twitter.com/Dave_Hone/status/1494674436766769156?t=iIuqpdCAn3Upz-dkZ5ApzA&s=33

Dr Dave Hone (@Dave_Hone)

But a couple of those bits, and most notably this one, are huge. Here's the same photo with the scalebar duplicated and stuck across the middle of the centrum face it's it's over 25 cm. That's huge. It is, in fact, in the same ballpark as the biggest of Sue's dorsal centra.

Twitter · Feb 18, 2022, 2:05 PM

[astral kelp]

Lmao ty

[frail robin]

POV: You read "Pterosaurs by Mark Witton"
And now I am become pterosaur fan, critizer of David Peters

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/mujikcboro-seriymujik-gif-24361533

[wary panther]

All I smell is unreliable 🗣️

[undone parcel]

i dont know anyone who takes peters seriously

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/stare-staring-black-guy-gif-24920795

[astral kelp]

Z-Boomer

[wary panther]

Someone explain to me how Crocodilians neg all land mammals?

[undone parcel]

perfectionism

[chilly knot]

Because they're so insanely based animals and only take Ws

[light osprey]

Crocodile fanboys are absolutely rampant, ah make it stop

[wary panther]

Gustave moment🗣️

[undone parcel]

case and point the largest terrestrial carnivore of the cenozoic isnt a mammal but a Sebecid Barinasuchus

[astral kelp]

Paraentelodon enters the chat: 1000kg - 2000kg specimens

[clever sable]

Gustave likely didn't kill 300 people and there is 0 proof of him killing hippos actually (I believe the highest number that can be reasonably verified is 60-90 kills iirc, I could be wrong)

[undone parcel]

not a full carnivore

[astral kelp]

Fair it was likely more herbivorous/omnivorous anyways.

[wary panther]

Birds and Reptiles beating the ever loving sh out of mammals for millions of years:

[chilly knot]

I agree Gustave is impressive but there's cooler

[clever sable]

Birds when they are reptiles

[undone parcel]

i just want confirmation Gustave is still alive

[wary panther]

Me explain to you how birds aren't considered reptiles:😳

[light osprey]

Oh dear

[astral kelp]

they are reptiles

[clever sable]

Birds are reptiles

[frail robin]

Mammals are dinosaurs
But worse in most aspects

[undone parcel]

all tetrapods are fish

[wary panther]

They aren't reptiles, Archosaurus are repltiles, Birds aren't reptiles tho

[light osprey]

Stop the bird debate, here’s a screenshot no need to discuss anything else

[astral kelp]

you and I know where this is going to end up

[keen forum]

wait isn't that in the same ball park size wise for Barinasuchus

[undone parcel]

im getting birds arent real flashbacks

[clever sable]

Birds are archosaurs, birds closest living relatives of crocodilians and the closest living relatives of crocodilians are birds, birds are undeniably reptiles

[wary panther]

Not reptiles, haven't been reptiles

[light osprey]

I posted a cladistic screenshot, why are you still discussing this

[astral kelp]

Alex James has said Paraentelodon was most likely 1000-1700kg but via tooth scaling you can get up to 2000kg specimens

[small geyser]

Dinoaurs are reptiles. Non-avian dinosaurs are birds so therefore, birds are reptiles.

[clever sable]

Birds are dinosaurs, dinosaurs are reptiles

[undone parcel]

bro has accepted reality

[wary panther]

My bad, I couldn't see how simple that was, forgive me 😦

[white matrix]

List of the tyrranosaurids, tyrannosauradae generaky related to trex: zuchyngtyranus, tarbosaurus, albertosaurus, gorgosaurus,alectrosaurus,yutyrannus,nanuqsaurus,lythornax,daspletosaurus,alioramus (did this cuz bored)

[light osprey]

Lovely

[undone parcel]

oh my god the spelling

[astral kelp]

Yuty isn't a tyrannosaurid btw, its a tyrannosauroid

[wary panther]

Oh god

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/minor-spelling-mistake-spelling-mistake-final-fantasy-final-fantasy7-tifa-gif-22367715

[white matrix]

I said generaly.

[undone parcel]

i feel my autism getting worse

[light osprey]

About that Zhuchengtyrannus vertabrae, did anyone bother to check how it scales with the other material?

[clever sable]

Reptiles when they are still the most dominant and successful vertebrates ever

[wary panther]

Mammals cry in the chat:

[small geyser]

Don't worry about it. Now you know.

[undone parcel]

fish

[astral kelp]

Reptiles when they meet my big mammalian pet blue whale named Cupcake, it mauls them to death

[light osprey]

fish

[clever sable]

Shhhhhhh, fish are too successful we don't talk about them

[white matrix]

Also i didnt come here to get bullied for havin autisim and not being english.

[keen forum]

then its about the same size Barina is about 1,700-2000kgs

[tough parcel]

Cupcake when I introduce them to my cute goldfish Megalodon

[undone parcel]

when i introduce them to Perucetus

[wary panther]

Cupcake after being mauled by 15 mosaurus and getting spanked by the Triassic Goat:

[clever sable]

Perucetus isn't even bigger than a large fin whale

[small geyser]

Not everyone in this server is nice unfortunately.

[scenic flame]

birds can't evolve out of reptilia

[undone parcel]

weight averages to 180 tons which if average makes it bigger then blue whales which average around 110

[keen forum]

73tons is still massive, now it isn't no 122-150monster like megalodon

[clever sable]

180 tonnes is outdated

[wary panther]

Nothing is bigger than the blue whale right now, Even the sea potato didn't come close

[scenic flame]

if birds aren't reptiles, neither are all archosaurs

[white matrix]

If something on land even had 100 tons it be so heavy it collapse on itself

[astral kelp]

your mom is though

[undone parcel]

argentinosaurus

[chilly knot]

I agree Perucetus is cooler than meg

[keen forum]

it was downsized to 68-73tons

[wary panther]

You're mom broke my pelvis that it became IRRATATING to reconstruct,(reference to irratator)

[astral kelp]

your*

[clever sable]

Not 100 tonnes (although the collapsing under itself has been disproven for sauropods iirc)

[undone parcel]

irritator finds these jokes very tasteless

[light osprey]

Irritating* 🤓

[white matrix]

You mama so fat the planet dosent hold her on she holds the planet

[wary panther]

You're mom so large she out weighs the largest sauropod by twice it's weight

[light osprey]

Wow you’re such a meanie pants, I’m calling daddy

[astral kelp]

Noo this is turning to your momma roasts

[next moss]

yeah I swear it got downsized like the day that it got described💀

[clever sable]

It did, it took like 4 hours

[small geyser]

Favorite prehistoric creature that is not a dinosaur. Go!

[undone parcel]

if the heaviest blues could be around 200 then 180 isnt out of the realm of possibility

[wary panther]

Megalina

[astral kelp]

Paraentelodon

[light osprey]

Your mum

[clever sable]

Sarcosuchus or purussaurus

[chilly knot]

Hmm Deinosuchus

[white matrix]

Honestly id not be surprised if dinos were still alive that theyd be food, imagine nickacado avocado did a muckbang of eating 100 deep fried compys and a whole carnotaurus worth of steaks

[compact leaf]

probably columbian mammoths

[light osprey]

Blue Whale extends into the early Pleistocene right? That’s my favourite then

[undone parcel]

Brachiosuchus...maybe Kapro/Mahajungasuchus

[clever sable]

180 tonnes has been thoroughly disproven, far too much soft tissue was added to the model used in the paper

[small geyser]

Anteosaurus

[undone parcel]

anteo is great..tied with Erythosuchus and Inostrancevia for best large permian carnivore for me..no wait Erytho is Triassic thats right

[astral kelp]

They also used manatees as the analogue for perucetus when they should have been using close relatives.

Funfact: Manatees aren't even chunky its just they have massive guts + the amount of food they eat.

[viscid surge]

Aren’t the guts massive because of how much they eat, and what they’re eating ?

[light osprey]

Speaking of aquatic, I had a question about how much light reaches the Mesopelagic zone 👀

[undone parcel]

sea grasses

[clever sable]

Some huge prehistoric Crocs and stuff (the deinos are outdated)

[astral kelp]

paraentelodon v hippo comparison

[undone parcel]

whys Smilosuchus on there...its not even Psuedosuchian

[clever sable]

Idk ask random

[undone parcel]

mm fair enough

[light osprey]

Damn, I’m left empty handed again darn

[astral kelp]

every creature is cool beside sarcosuchus (lame)

[clever sable]

Abuse

[undone parcel]

id argue there no such thing as a lame animal

[astral kelp]

its to spite fred, sarco is cool yeah

[wary panther]

Sacro sucks as a crocodilian, It's a crocodilimorph

[undone parcel]

sacro...the alternate name to scrotum humanum

[wary panther]

Crocodylomorphs aren't even well known

[clever sable]

Sarcosuchus compared to various creatures in it's environment (because I did this on mobile it may be off so instead of trying to make the human models the same size o made the female model slightly smaller than the male one as I believe it is smaller than the male model but if it's not the sarcosuchus here is slightly too small)

[astral kelp]

scale one with paraentelodon (its 3m)

[wary panther]

Deinosuchus, the much cooler verison of sarco, Chadly walks into the chat, smacks the sh out of sarco, and leaves:

[clever sable]

Sarcos cooler

[undone parcel]

deino is not even close to sarco

[wary panther]

15 ton estimate:, Larger biteforce:, Cooler prey:

[clever sable]

I mean, it is far larger but sarco is way cooler

[undone parcel]

ahh yes the child argument that size and bite force =cool and not just its cool cause its a animal

[clever sable]

15 tonne estimate when possibly completely incorrect

[wary panther]

Do you want me to explain how a deinosuchus would mop the floor with a sarco?

[clever sable]

How well a creature kills things or what it can kill is not a very good way of judging how cool something is

[wary panther]

Not only that, wasn't it proven that Sarco couldn't do the death roll? Already an L

[undone parcel]

no cause i know what would happen cause common sense due to Deino being ADAPTED for vastly different prey while sarco is a gharial in behaviour most likley

[astral kelp]

yeah but it depends on the type of death roll

[clever sable]

Welllllll, https://youtube.com/watch?v=UtH6u2VbgM8&feature=shareb https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT5UmbBUc_k

sarcosuchus may have actually been able to perform death rolls while feeding and it almost certainly could perform violent thrashing motions, isn't DRCI is very similar to a tomistoma (DRCI stands for Death Roll Cranial Index) and tomistomas can preform death rolls for feeding and will preform violent thrashes while hunting while having a pretty thin snout it's not completely unreasonable that sarco may have used a death roll to feed and preform violent thrashes on prey

[compact leaf]

sarco isn’t particularly similar to gharials when it comes down to it

[undone parcel]

i meant more to probably specilized more for fish

[wary panther]

While feeding, can't do it when the prey is still alive?

[astral kelp]

fredthebaddog when someone calls sarco a big gharial:

[compact leaf]

also sort of unrelated but there’s undescribed brachiosaurid remains in the same formation as sarco

[wary panther]

I am not looking at all of that brahhhhhh

[astral kelp]

elrhaz? nice

[undone parcel]

besides both are cool but not not cooler then Sebecids and BAurusuchids

[clever sable]

Crocs don't use death rolls to kill things the majority of the time, it's actually a method of breaking up food to eat

[clever sable]

Sarcosuchus had a generalist diet, this is confirmed by isotopes in the teeth

[undone parcel]

i just remember when due to its gharial/tomnistoma like snout it was debated

[wary panther]

To be fair, when comparing this to deinosuchus, it's not really a fair comparison, Deino was simply more robust and much better at handling larger prey

[undone parcel]

i literally said deino is adapted for vastly different prey

[clever sable]

Deinosuchus hatcheri when it most likely primarily ate turtles:

(or at least they made up a good bit of it's diet)

[wary panther]

Deinosuchus munching on a tyrannosaurid:

[clever sable]

That's schwimmeri that did that, not hatcheri

[undone parcel]

missing Riograndensis

[wary panther]

I'm referring to Deinosuchus as a whole, which comparing both of them, share minor differences

[undone parcel]

size difference is noticeable

[clever sable]

Except deinosuchus shwimmeri is like, significantly smaller

[wary panther]

I'm still forgeting on how both of them didn't much on tyrannosaurids?

[clever sable]

Invalid, thats Been lumped into hatcheri

[undone parcel]

see i knew it was contested or synonimized by now..its just the better name...

[clever sable]

I don't know if I like purussaurus or sarcosuchus more, both are just so cool

[wary panther]

Purussaurs is a beast

[undone parcel]

downsized sadly

[clever sable]

11 meters and 7.2 tonnes for the largest specimen

[wary panther]

Real talk, God must have spawned the most devious caiman to ever exist, with prey having no real way of defending themselves

[undone parcel]

i mean it had huge turtles so..

[astral kelp]

Paraentelodon is real cool talk. Heckin massive beast.

[clever sable]

It ate huge turtles, probably prehistoric capybara relatives and ground sloths (at least this is speculated to be the case) it also had serrated teeth

[wary panther]

Hold up, Has anyone realized how scary it would be to find a large crocodilian just near you're boat?, that's straight up demon time

[undone parcel]

australia isnt worried so why should i

[clever sable]

Purussaurus is very cool

[wary panther]

You when a 20 foot crocodile lunges out of the water to eat you:

[undone parcel]

stay away from the water its common sense

[wary panther]

Cheetah Gator would love to learn about you're location, Kaprosuchus

[undone parcel]

correction its cuban crocs

[wary panther]

OH HELL NAH😭

[undone parcel]

aww its cuddles

[clever sable]

Kapro was not actually super terrestrial, it was probably about as terrestrial as modern crocs

[wary panther]

It still was better adpated at a terrestrial life-style compared to modern crocs

[undone parcel]

we dont know

[clever sable]

Nope, not really, the whole terrestrial thing was just based on it's eyes but it being more terrestrial has since been disproven

[white matrix]

Why did pot make allosaurus europeas look fat and larger than fragilis.

[wary panther]

Oh, cool. So you wanna talk about the carolina butcher?

[undone parcel]

not a crocodile..hell might not even be Psuedosuchian

[wary panther]

fair point

Also, real talk, Is the Pt Rex Bigger than The Pt Giga, I've never been able to find a comparison between the 2

[astral kelp]

#modding

[undone parcel]

if you want a running crocodylomorph you literally have Boverisuchus or Sebecids

[wary panther]

I still want to see if you guys have any personal input. Because anytime I see them I always see Pt Giga being much bigger

[undone parcel]

height wise giga more then likley did tower over rex but all in all rex is the heaviest theropod

[wary panther]

This is pot we are talking about, doubt any of the mods have the brain-cells for that

[undone parcel]

yea and PT makes theres actually decent to each other

[wary panther]

I don't know if the Pt mods made sure to make Rex larger than Giga,

[undone parcel]

they are the most accuracte in size to the real animals

[wary panther]

Giganotosaurs looks much larger than Rex though, And rex looks as if it's based of more gracile morphs instead of the bulky ones

[undone parcel]

cause giga was taller and maybe they used specific specimens for rex

[jagged trellis]

aren't rex and giga the same weight with giga being slightly longer but thinner rn?

[wary panther]

It looks as if they used the largest Giga specimen and the semi largest rex specimen

[astral kelp]

depends on which specimen, dentary specimen basically, the holotype for giga is bigger than the average rex though afaik

[wary panther]

The largest Rex is still bigger than, idk, every other megatheropod know in bulk?

[undone parcel]

carcharadontosaurs just had bigger heads while rex was just a solid block

[wary panther]

Guys Im asking if they made Rex bigger than Giga when they modded the animals, It looks as if they made Giga bulkier and larger

[undone parcel]

its stated they are semi ficticous but they said the sizes are accuracte so im running with it

[clever sable]

The largest known giga specimen may have been the same size as Scotty and PT rex is based on sue

[wary panther]

So they used the largest Giga specimen and the 2nd largest Rex specimen?

[clever sable]

Ye

[undone parcel]

sue is better then scotty anyway shes actually cool

[wary panther]

I hate when they do that, and they always use the gracile morph as well

[clever sable]

PT rex is accurately chunky

[undone parcel]

hell the slim ones decently round

[wary panther]

It's not, it doesn't even come close to the size sue was

[astral kelp]

the gastralia on that is bad afaik (its backwards innit)

[clever sable]

That recreation accidentally put a gastralia on backwards and made it too deep

[wary panther]

I grabbed the newer one, nvm. My bad it's older

[undone parcel]

thats older

yea thats pre gastralia and before she got her amazing new spot

[wary panther]

My point still stands, It has a very big head and a very round skeleton, Pt puts to many skinny verisons

[undone parcel]

it isnt shrink wrapped so stop complaining

[wary panther]

Why can't I complain? People really downsize rex when it comes to sheer bulk, but never skip out when it comes to Giga's size

[clever sable]

She's not even too skinny, it's a regular amount of soft tissue

[undone parcel]

thats what im saying its not too much or too little its just average soft tissue

[clever sable]

Sue isn't downsized, she's properly chunky in game, PHP rex, saurian rex and even the sue model are all too chunky

[wary panther]

Try again, they have a much skinner verison in game, and one with teeth

[undone parcel]

yea thats the problem they overemphasize the chunk

[tough parcel]

Those are alternates, the base is fine

[clever sable]

The default one is a regular healthy amount of chunk

[undone parcel]

THOSE ARE COSMETIC AND SIMPLY FOR DIFFERENT LOOKS

[wary panther]

Alternate could still use a bit more bulk, it feels as if it's a sized up dasp

[clever sable]

They have an alternate version that adds so much soft tissue it looks obese

[undone parcel]

why does everything need the max soft tissue as if its fat..

[wary panther]

It's not obese >:(, it's sue's normal appearance

[clever sable]

PHP rex has wayyyyyy top much soft tissue

[undone parcel]

its not sue its BASED off her

[woeful falcon]

any opinion that reduces Tyrannosaurus in game to a "sized up das" is an opinion I don't give weight to.

[wary panther]

That could also go for how large the Giganotosaurus is, Being much more barrel bellied then a rex, A REX

[clever sable]

That's not what sue would have looked like, this is a regular amount of soft tissue for Sue (due is on the top)

[wary panther]

Oh god, I can already smell the 8.8 ton estimate here

[woeful falcon]

what are you talking about dude

[undone parcel]

probably cause thats average...

[wary panther]

This reconstruction of Sue wouldn't be able to hold 9 tons, let alone 10, Scotty maybe, but using this is a strech

[clever sable]

That isn't an 8.8 tonne estimate

[woeful falcon]

with all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about

[astral kelp]

[undone parcel]

if sue cant then scotty couldnt but both are roughly around 10 tons as OUTLIERS

[clever sable]

No, that's just what sue looked like

[woeful falcon]

Idk if anyone's GDI'd hartman's version but I don't believe there's anything wrong from it.

[wary panther]

With all due respect, the bulk of a tyrannosaur has been missing in so many reconstructions, This thing gets outweighed by the dentary of Giganotosaurus

[clever sable]

It's almost like the dentary of the giganotosaurus is the size of Scotty

[wary panther]

This is why I love Dan Folkes Gdi of Rex

[woeful falcon]

oh I guess there is a dorsal view of this one

[astral kelp]

People tend to diss hartmans skeletal when he has if not the best access to the material when making these.

[woeful falcon]

folkes's gdi isn't even of sue

[wary panther]

Oh dear god, this thing shows teeth and had no lips, it looks as if she been shrink wrapped to look as if she's an average Tyrannosaur, It looks similar to Stan more than Sue

[clever sable]

It's no different, this is Scotty

[wary panther]

That rex is bulkier than the rex shown above, you admited into using a shrink wrapped version shown previous

[woeful falcon]

homie its a skeletal. here have random's instead

that's an old scotty btw

[clever sable]

It's the same amount of flesh, just a different gastralia position, no offense but I really don't think you know what your talking about

[undone parcel]

my god its like arguing with a wall

[woeful falcon]

"shows teeth and had no lips" it is a skeleton and it is closing its mouth

also nice pronouns riotin btw I think I'll write you off as a troll

[wary panther]

I think you guys are trying to argue that the Rex that Pt made is fine, it's not, And I still asked is the Pt rex larger than the Giga one

[undone parcel]

i said twice giga is taller

[clever sable]

I bet you think Prehistoric planet rex has a normal amount of soft tissue

[wary panther]

My god, I'm not talking about their real life couter parts, I'm referring to PATH OF TITANS, AND THE PT MOD OF REX AND GIGA, which one is larger?

[undone parcel]

and pt mods are size wise accuracate

[woeful falcon]

go into the game and find out. this is paleo chat

[clever sable]

They are roughly the same size, although if PT giga is the same size as the dentary specimen than the dentary specimen is larger as the dentary specimen is Scotty sized

[wary panther]

Doubt the rex is size wise accurate considering how it pales in size compared to Giganotosaurus

[undone parcel]

REX WOULD LOOK SHORTER BUT ITS HEAVIER

[wary panther]

We are going off base models, Rex looks as if it's smaller than Giganotosaurus

[clever sable]

Scotty compared to giganotosaurus (the Scotty here is slightly too small but nothing absurd)

[sullen cairn]

me when questionably scaled dinosaur is not even 1% larger than other dinosaur

[clever sable]

Yes but it is not, this is due to giga being Long and taller, however in terms of mass rex is bigger

[wary panther]

I am asking, for the last time, if anyone can simply bring both models and show which one is larger? AS IN THE PT MODELS

[undone parcel]

go to modding for that

[woeful falcon]

or go into the game

[clever sable]

Mass isn't always a completely visual thing you can just see by taking a look, bone density also has to do with it

[wary panther]

When it comes to large animals it's very easy to tell what's larger and what's not, Except sauropods

[clever sable]

Ehhhhhhhh, sometimes, but not always

[woeful falcon]

evidently not since giga and rex have very different dimensions to them yet net out to be similarly sized animals

[bright veldt]

Wow I clock out of work and we’re still on this.

[undone parcel]

my brain hurts..

[woeful falcon]

Gorgosaurus is cool can we get some hype in the chat for gorgo

[sullen cairn]

a. libratus

[bright veldt]

Albertosaurus libratus

[undone parcel]

nah Thantothorestes

[sullen cairn]

d. degrootorum

[woeful falcon]

glue eating crew came out real strong immediately

I trademarked "glue eating crew" you can't have it

[undone parcel]

"alamotyrannus"

[sullen cairn]

t. sp

[undone parcel]

as a glue sniffer i feel validated

[wary panther]

Back

[clever sable]

I like acrocanthosaurus tbh, easily my favorite dinosaur

[undone parcel]

Fran is a beautiful lady

[wary panther]

After looking at both models, I apologize for being harsh, it's just that the Giganotosaurus looks so much bigger in mass, when you know, Rex just got proved to be the largest theropod and what not

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-chad-gif-20773266

[clever sable]

I'm a guy but I do like wearing dresses sometimes

[sullen cairn]

acrocanthosaurus is cool with maybe being an asian immigrant to NA

[undone parcel]

korea

[light osprey]

Acrocanthosaurus sp. my favourite Dinosaur

[heady thunder]

Facts

[woeful falcon]

acro is a very cool dino

[undone parcel]

also Acro taking over the entire south and eastern US

[wary panther]

Also, 10.5 estimate for Giganotosaurs does not exist, and I've went to the spread sheet where Dan Folkes did he calculations for the theropod, and all I found was 10.4

[sullen cairn]

and whatever the hell capitalsaurus is

[clever sable]

10.5 is based on a GDI by toxic midget who helped with the blog

[undone parcel]

probabaly acro

[wary panther]

Is it accurate though?

[light osprey]

Are you getting up in arms about 0.1 of a tonne? Probably just people making translation errors it’s so inconsequential

[sullen cairn]

also its dentary scaling
which is cringe

[clever sable]

Seems to be

[woeful falcon]

I mean in the blog its literally 10.4t it is such an indistinguishable difference at that size

[bright veldt]

Yeah that’s the issue.

[wary panther]

Seems to be other wise, I've heard it's either the same, or people clown on folkes for using Dentary scaling ( won't accept Giga being bigger)

[undone parcel]

need confirmation for someone...Ostafrikasaurus currently leans more towards Ceratosauria correct..im not crazy..maybe a little

[bright veldt]

Except that dentaries can vary between individuals so it’s unreliable.

[light osprey]

He just made an estimate, I’m pretty sure he made sure to clarify you don’t take any of them as the absolute truth

[clever sable]

I mean, it's still not the best estimate of all time, not because of anything Dan folkes did but because of how fragmentary it is

[wary panther]

You know what, someone make an estimate on that Rex toe bone

[sullen cairn]

ceratosauridae but its a dumbass taxon anyways

[bright veldt]

You get like a 15m rex or something insane. Osta’s a dubious ceratosaur.

[undone parcel]

arent all tooth taxa

[tough parcel]

https://media.tenor.com/HgdPrdp6p0oAAAAC/frog.gif

[sullen cairn]

yeah but the name's dumb too

[light osprey]

Cladistically placing teeth

[undone parcel]

its not the worst

[wary panther]

What if that toebone was a 15m rex? What if Spinosaurus did reach 12 tons? What if Giganotosaurs was able to live 40 years??????? Crazy times we live in

[woeful falcon]

what if batman came and saved the day

[heady thunder]

Isnt the 40 years part proven tho?

[light osprey]

I was there, all of it happened

[undone parcel]

how is giga being 40 crazy..

[sullen cairn]

a frenchman names a tooth after the german term for east africa decades after germany left frica

[clever sable]

What if sarcosuchus grew to 11 meters

[bright veldt]

Giganotosaurs just lived very long lives. One of the Meraxes specimens was in its mid 60s when it died.

[wary panther]

Considering how Early rex dies, Doesn't Giga live to 50+ years?

[undone parcel]

pretty sure it didnt have rexes grow fast die young policy

[clever sable]

Btw, does the suchomimus holotype being a sub adult claim hold any weight or nah?

[wary panther]

Guess that's a drawback to being the largest theropod, Live fast Die young

[heady thunder]

Trexes partied hard

[bright veldt]

I honestly have never actually seen the source on it, ever, so I’m inclined to say no.

[tough parcel]

It's moreso their lifestyle, Tarbosaurus took 40 years to reach adulthood (or at least, skeletal/sexual maturity?) vs Rex's 20

[wary panther]

What kind of vietnam stuff did I just say>

[undone parcel]

yea rex was special

[empty island]

Hi

[bright veldt]

Eh not quite. Last I checked acro and most other NA tyrannosaurids were similar to it.

[heady thunder]

Rex died at like 30ish smth right?

[tough parcel]

The oldest we have is early 30s, yes

[clever sable]

It would be very interesting if it was because it's already about a ton larger than sarcosuchus

[wary panther]

Wait, Guys, Does anyone share the same theory that Megalosaurus were just apart of the tyrannosaurdea family?

[woeful falcon]

the oldest also happen to be the largest I believe yess?

[undone parcel]

no..megalosaurs are very obviously not Coelurosaurs

[bright veldt]

Sue’s 28. Idk Scotty’s age if that was ever determined. I know the oldest rex was neither of them.

[clever sable]

Yeah no, that's a hard no, as far as I'm aware nothing actually supports this

[empty island]

I want someone to ship to me because I don't know. Please, I will owe you 🥲

[wary panther]

I swear the jaw of Megalosaurus looks as if it could be mistaken for a tyrannosauroid, maybe they just evolved similar appearances

[woeful falcon]

ahh that was my mistake. I thought sue was older

[undone parcel]

isnt our oldest rex like 31

[clever sable]

Probably just convergent evolution ig

[wary panther]

no it's 30

[bright veldt]

Megalosaurus isn’t just a jaw, and there’s plenty of more complete large megalosaurids that make it a definite no. They got this unique body shape tbh. Almost baguette-shape lmao.

[empty island]

🥲

[undone parcel]

put the majungasaur in the megalosaur for a sausage baguette

[clever sable]

Why are you asking in Paleo chats.....

[wary panther]

And may I be mistaken but, why didn't tyrannosaurs just move to south america?

[bright veldt]

It can’t be just me, especially with how the head looks

[undone parcel]

natural barriers...other large theropods...also theres only Santanaraptor which is suggested as a tyrannosauroid i think

[sullen cairn]

because central america was a bunch of islands and crap

[empty island]

If I know how I will do🥲

[bright veldt]

There can be a whole load of reasons. Taxa aren’t obligated to interchange. Crocodiles can swim across oceans when motivated enough but they don’t (often) for a more absurd example.

[sullen cairn]

well you might have santanaraptor as a tyrannosauroid if that thing ends up as one

[undone parcel]

yea i think its suggested but not concrete

[wary panther]

Image if Rex moves to south America, and you know, Dominated the entire place

[bright veldt]

Even then that’s tyrannosauroid. There’s also timimus of Australia and megaraptorans.

[undone parcel]

and Eotyrannus and maybe Nuthetes in the UK

[sullen cairn]

and kakuru and that unnamed pubic thing and the many other things of questionable tyrannosauroid placement

[clever sable]

What would you say the most successful group of theropods was?

[wary panther]

If the tyrannosaurs could take Asia and North America i'm sure they could take all of South America

[undone parcel]

birds..so maniraptorans

[bright veldt]

Yeah you got us there

[sullen cairn]

dinosauria

[wary panther]

Birds got lucky though, If we want to be specific it's the sauropods, they were almost untouchable. NVM HE SAID THEROPOD

[clever sable]

Is bro seriously treating dinosaurs like different factions in a Mobile game

[bright veldt]

In terms of non-avian dinosaurs I’d probably give it to ceratosauria cause they were the first major theropod clade to evolve and they were ever-present to the very end

[clever sable]

"they could take south america"

[light osprey]

Look at this, Zenob is a god send for providing it

[wary panther]

Tell that to the illgeal tyrannosaur immigrants that went to North America

[undone parcel]

even then at the end they were stuck in the south with only a couple up north

[woeful falcon]

definitely not a weird thing to say

[bright veldt]

Eoabelisaurus is so friggin odd to look at. It’s a spitting image of an abelisaur but it’s 180 million years old. Skip forward to proper abelisaurids in the early Cretaceous and barely anything changed

[sullen cairn]

eoabelisaurus also might be a ceratosaurid

[wary panther]

Crocodile vibes

[clever sable]

Bro what, oh god, get this awesomebro outta here, you gotta focus on them as animals, not as killing machines, also wtf does that even mean "illegal tyrannosaur immigrants", like, what the hell?

[undone parcel]

Eoabel looks rather standarnd then you look down looking where it all changed

[sullen cairn]

we do have abelisaurids in lourinha and tendaguru that are decently sized

[undone parcel]

i uh did get intel on Turkana

[light osprey]

Lourinha 👀

[woeful falcon]

any "titanovenator" enjoyers in chat

[undone parcel]

titanovenator sadly wont be the name

[sullen cairn]

it's a couple teeth but still

[woeful falcon]

Pronto you take that yawn back

[undone parcel]

he might be a insomniac

[clever sable]

Abelisaurs are pretty cool tbh, idk what my favorite is but I gotta go with majunga or carno, call me basic they are awesome

[sullen cairn]

i like thanos because I hate it and it was getting murdered by a giant megaraptoran

although said giant megaraptoran may or may not have been getting murdered by a giant abelisaurid

[undone parcel]

uh Llukalkan for best Abelisaur name..Ekrix cause its fun to say, "titanovenator" cause possible rex sized abelisaur, oh wait no Kurupis is great too

[light osprey]

Quilmesaurus

[sullen cairn]

kurupi is awful

[undone parcel]

nah its the "rock hard sex god"

[wary panther]

1, I don't know who or what awsomebros is 2, You need to understand that as animals they take over niches in order to make their living suitable. You really think if a tyrannosaur managed to enter South America it wouldn't be able to establish a niche their as an apex as the previous apexes pretty much went extinct giving the Tyrannosaurs a much easier time taking over a niche free environment. They already did it in North America once the Allosaurus died out, and took of all of North America leaving not much to be filled but themselves. The only other theropods we know for a fact co-existed with tyrannosaurs was Dakotaraptor and even then it was a mid-sized animal with estimates being at least 800kg. You need to stop taking what I say as a joke and stop acting as If I want animals to fight to the death. I asked I question and you couldn't give a straight, mature answer and instead insulted me. And not only that my point still stands, If tyrannosaurs migrated to South America they would have been able to evolve traits for them to take over. That's what any animal does, it's not subjugated to tyrannosaurs alone

[sullen cairn]

where did 800kg dakotaraptor come from

[light osprey]

Yeah, that’s terrible

[woeful falcon]

your pronouns are "nick/her"

[undone parcel]

not my fault it was found by a love hotel

[wary panther]

It's based of the largest individuals at best

[light osprey]

Right but they had the choice to not give it that binomial name

[undone parcel]

the largest individuals which might be Unenlagines

[wary panther]

What is a unenlagines?

[light osprey]

Oh? The radiation of Unenlagines continues?

[sullen cairn]

austroraptor and friends

[bright veldt]

Dakotaraptor doesn’t exist.

[clever sable]

You seem to really only care about how big stuff is and how well it can kill things and that's literally what an awesomebro is and you constantly say "oh it could mop the floor with them" like, what?? How am I being the immature one when you're "pronouns" are literally "nick/her"

[wary panther]

For god's sake please don't say it's a turtle

[sullen cairn]

more just depalma's cringe

[tough parcel]

Dakotaraptor exists, it just might not be as big as claimed or it could be a different family and thus reconstructed differently

[undone parcel]

or might not exist in that it may get a name change

[light osprey]

I’ve seen Dakotaraptor can confirm it has a testudine carapace and everything (real and true)

[woeful falcon]

they let you see it? incredible they keep that thing on lockdown as if it wasn't real or something

[undone parcel]

the area 51 for dinosaurs

[sullen cairn]

meanwhile in depalma's dungeon

[light osprey]

Put on one of those joke glasses with a moustache, they didn’t bat an eye

[sullen cairn]

me waiting for sereno to give actual measurements

[undone parcel]

go to serenos for more crocs

[wary panther]

That doesn't excuse how you weren't able to give a straight answer. Calling me an awsomebro because I am curious on how large theropods hunt is the dumbest reply you could have given. If you don't want me to say Deinosuchus mops the floor with Sarco that's fine, I'll explain how it uses it more jaws effectively in order to rips massive chunks out of it's prey, and how it's size is almost comparable to that a sarco, with much more adaptions used to take down large prey

[bright veldt]

Less the turtle part, which was fixed pretty quickly, and more that DePalma’s an embarrassment of a scientist that fabricates evidence and cannot be trusted, especially when he refuses to let anyone outside his circle look at the material directly. There probably is a larger raptor in HC but there’s nothing to suggest it isn’t a large acheroraptor or something.

[light osprey]

Lol

[undone parcel]

its just a big atrociraptor

[sullen cairn]

https://twitter.com/LancianIdolatry/status/1392150985288544258

Hell Creek Enthusiast (@LancianIdolatry)

Phantom of the Middle Guild:

A Dissection of Dakotaraptor, a Review of What Is and What Isn't, and the Verdict of Hell Creek's Elusive Mesopredator

Likes

454

Retweets

145

Twitter · May 11, 2021, 4:13 PM

[light osprey]

5 metre Acheroraptor is real

[clever sable]

Wdym a straight answer? I called you an awesomebro because you only seem to care about them hunting and killing, also it doesn't change that you saying "illegal tyrannosaur immigrants" is ridiculous and nonsensical

[bright veldt]

Even then, depending on how you scale it, it can go down as low as deinonychus size

[woeful falcon]

god I hope it does

[undone parcel]

i have a dream where achillobator finally gets a better description

[bright veldt]

Keep in mind this was also before DePalma was caught stealing the work of another scientist and fabricating data so it wasn’t obvious he stole from her. He cannot be trusted and thus Dakota as a whole is mute.

[sullen cairn]

common depalma L

[wary panther]

Hunting is an everyday thing animals do, Herbs hunt for certain plants and Carnivores either hunt for corpses or hunt their prey regardless of their adaptions ment to counter them. Of course you think being beyond that point makes you smarter than most

[light osprey]

It’s all about that missing mid-sized carnivore, what if Albertosaurus dipped its toes into the late Maastrichtian

[clever sable]

No I just think that only focusing on killing is super dumb, also you have still not answered what the hell you even meant by illegal tyrannosaur immigrants

[bright veldt]

I think it might have? I’ve heard something about teeth from that age before.

[woeful falcon]

more albertosaurines would be cool yes very

we only have two, arguably synonymous on a generic level

[sullen cairn]

someone better not say periculosus

[undone parcel]

isnt there the theory Tyrannosaurus or at least tyrannosaurines asian immigrants who outcompeted Albertosaurines

[clever sable]

Also hunting isn't an every day thing, not even close, saying creatures hunt every day is kinda ridiculous, meals can last weeks in some cases

[light osprey]

I think it’s at least present in the latter part of Horseshoe

[bright veldt]

It’s an idea but not really founded on anything outside of coincidence.