paleontology

[covert lintel]

exact size is somewhat uncertain because most of the remains are functionally under private ownership atm, so the measurements can't really be double-checked and it's not entirely clear if they're from dakotaraptor in the first place - for all we know, they could actually be anzu fossils or smth

[pastel tartan]

Man that’s annoying thats my favorite dinosaur lol

[compact leaf]

yeah the whole situation with it is a bit of a mess, it's unfortunate

[covert lintel]

it's one of my favourites too so i feel your pain

[pastel tartan]

Tbh the reason i like it over utah is bc i dont like the lip drooping lol

[heady thunder]

I gotta thank Saurian for making me love Dakotahraptor

[compact leaf]

saurian is also partly to blame for why we can't study it afaik

[heady thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/yakuza-gif-18148683

[pastel tartan]

I love fluffy raptors

[pastel tartan]

Wait wdym?

[compact leaf]

I don't know the whole story so I don't want to be misleading but something about breaking embargo

[heady thunder]

How can you break embargo on a dino?

[pastel tartan]

Idk what that means

[compact leaf]

releasing stuff about it before the publication without the consent of the person writing the paper

[heady thunder]

Huh, L move from Saurian then if that happened.

[stiff osprey]

that wasn't Saurian, that was Mesozoica

[heady thunder]

The best part of the dino survival gaming community is the drama fr

[compact leaf]

that's it my mistake

[vast narwhal]

There a new study that suggest Utah raptor lived 10 million years than originally thought what does that suggest

[tranquil quartz]

That it lived 10 million years earlier than originally thought??

[vast narwhal]

Nvm brodie, I'm talking climate and animals it coexisted with, if living 10 million years earlier changes anything

[stiff osprey]

Still the same animals since they were all found in the same layer. Climate may be different, but I don't know climatology

[valid scaffold]

Hello!

[hoary mantle]

guys i think argent could jump high heres why i think that way: it has very big legs and strong

[little mauve]

Would be slightly cooler but not by much, there was a general warming trend in the Cretaceous but it gets very hard to say how that affected individual regions. It does somewhat appear that the Cedar Mountain became more arid over time, the presence of carbonates and other minerals later in the formation suggests a harsher dry season at least.

That process reverses however in the uppermost layer, where it becomes quite wet again with probably less harsh and more coastal conditions

The WIS was encroaching from the north and east in this time so that impacts things quite a bit as well, climate wise

[vast narwhal]

Thank you

[little mauve]

You're welcome, here's imo a nifty chart of Utah's geology by sequential faunal levels

[mild flare]

Probably a unpopular opinion but honestly I wouldn’t mind having this struthi on steroids on a community server apparently this thing could grow up to 10 feet tall and weigh 2,000 pounds

[covert lintel]

BAD NEWS: vorombe is probably invalid, meaning not a real genus
GOOD NEWS: it's thought to be synonymous with aepyornis (elephant bird), which is still really huge - a. maximus is a contender for largest (known) bird to have ever lived, in fact. so huge bird is real and it can still happen, it just may not be accurate to call it vorombe

[mild flare]

Well I will still take that as a win I think it looks cool

[hallow reef]

Thanks

[keen forum]

again rex still falls between .97 and .98 and yes me and stego read the blog stego is one of the ppl that helped dan with giga

[pearl briar]

turtle sized

[clever sable]

Is Dakotaraptor a chimera between a turtle and a large dromeosaur or is it just a misidentified turtle

[pearl briar]

chimaera with a turtle

[clever sable]

So there was a large dromeosaur in hell creek, we just don't know what it looked like at all

[pearl briar]

12 kg mass???/j

[clever sable]

So what were the results of the new rex GDI?

Nvm

[keen forum]

12.8-12.9tons rn

[clever sable]

And is it Sue or Scotty

[stiff osprey]

It's Sue, just not a good model

[clever sable]

Do you think it's been overestimated or do you think the results are reasonable?

[meager spindle]

Provide evidence that he was part of that. Rn. And where did he gain a volume of 13.2000. None of this was released until I brought this up.

[woeful falcon]

Meanie :/

[meager spindle]

And again that goes for Giganotosaurus Caroloni if it were to be 12 tonnes. You're leaving that part out.

[woeful falcon]

Literal last thing said in the blog is their user haha

[light osprey]

Yeah the skull looks off. Or maybe it’s just me? But the dentary looks proportionally small.

Nvmd it’s just the lighting of the render

[light oxide]

Ahoy Randomdinos! Good work you have done!

Question for ye, if ye don't mind -- I'm thinking about maybe making a mod on the Morrison playables we currently have (Saurophag-- *cough* I mean Allosaurus, Ceratosaurus, Stegosaurus, Kentrosaurus, and Camptosaurus) and making them accurately sized (with an average length, average hip height) and with accurate speeds and weight. Just for the funs of it.

This is what I currently have:

• Allosaurus:

  • Hip height: 2.25m
  • Length: 8.02m
  • Speed: 33.8 km/h ( 21.00 mph | 938.89 cm/s )
  • Weight:

• Ceratosaurus:

  • Hip height: 2m
  • Length: 7m
  • Speed: 29.1 km/h ( 18.08 mph ; 808.33 cm/s )
  • Weight:

• Stegosaurus:

  • Hip height: 2.3m
  • Length: 6m
  • Speed: 10.15 km/h ( 6.31 mph ; 281.94 cm/s )
  • Weight:

• Kentrosaurus:

  • Hip height: 1.35m
  • Length: 4.5m
  • Speed:
  • Weight:

• Camptosaurus:

  • Hip height: 1.5m
  • Length: 6m
  • Speed: 25 km/h ( 15.53 mph ; 694.44 cm/s )
  • Weight:

I was wondering if ye could help me in filling in the blanks/correcting a few?

Everyone else can help too!

[stiff osprey]

I'd advise not sizing the animals to average, and instead use smaller or larger specimens based on how they might balance. Most of these species don't have an average size, and a 6m Stego for example would probably get bodied by Allosaurus since it's so slow. Same goes for Kentro and Campto, which will probably have to be faster than they are IRL to be viable

I'll get some speed estimates

[light oxide]

I see -- I will most definitely take that into consideration.

[light osprey]

I can see Kentrosaurus working with extraneous bleed stats.

[compact leaf]

if you need help with the sauropods I’d be happy to

[light oxide]

Hmm, I "may" add Amargasaurus and another carnivore to help balance some stuff out, possibly.

I will have to figure out what carnivore though -- maybe Latenivenatrix? To help represent Koparion or Hesperornithoides (Most likely Hesperornithoides, as it has a preserved skeleton, while Koparion is based on a tooth)?

[light osprey]

and an average Camptosaurus would put it closer to Dryosaurus, which means even speedier (I think)

[light oxide]

So if ye want, Cuttlefish, ye can help with Amargasaurus.

[still notch]

What we talking about

[stiff osprey]

For Ceratosaurus (7m, 1100kg), based on Larramendi's and Hirt et al.'s equations, speeds range from 31.2 km/h to 44.2 km/h
For Allosaurus (8.2m, 2000kg), 31.3 km/h - 41.4 km/h
The others have no average size, so I can't calculate a speed

[light oxide]

Hmm, what size do ye think would fit for them then?

As ye said earlier -- averages wouldn't work all the time, especially for the 6m stegosaurus.

[light osprey]

I think Ungulatus got as big as 7.5 metres?

[stiff osprey]

the largest Stego and the largest Camptosaurus are about the same length, 7.8m (but the Stego is drastically heavier). Largest Kentro is 6m ish

[light oxide]

Hmm, guess we can try those then.

Looking at that now, it does seem like those 5 gotten to similar sizes. Huh.

[keen forum]

Sue

[light oxide]

(And Stegosaurus would be much taller than Camptosaurus.)

[clever sable]

I thought stego was significantly downsized?

[stiff osprey]

It was. It used to be 9-10m

[clever sable]

What's it's weight now?

[keen forum]

ah looks like someone didn't "read the blog" XD

[clever sable]

That jfd rex estimate is kinda being torn apart tbh

(I'm guessing this is randomdinos)

[keen forum]

wasn't been torn apart yet for it still stands atm

[stiff osprey]

For the largest Stego (7.8m, ?7-8 tonnes), I'm getting 12-13 km/h in Larramendi's calculator, and 25-26 km/h in Hirt et al.'s (the latter is almost definitely wrong)

[light oxide]

I feel like the latter speed is if Stegosaurus could gallop . . . which it most definitely didn't. XD

[light oxide]

Metric tons for stegosaurus, btw?

Or is it just tons?

[light osprey]

Yeah I think that’s what “tonnes” means

[light oxide]

A H -- Mkay then. 👍

[light osprey]

Well Stegosaurus is a whole lot heavier than I thought.

[keen forum]

random did u ever update ur stego?

[light oxide]

He did:

[keen forum]

sweeet i was looking for the updated version

[clever sable]

So stego wasn't downsized it was just compressed?

[light oxide]

Somewhat?

[stiff osprey]

huh, the largest Kentrosaurus femur comes from only a 4.9m animal
I was sure there was a 6m one somewhere

[light oxide]

Hmm

[light osprey]

So there’s no material to represent one though?

[light oxide]

Unless it got downsized, maybe?

[light osprey]

So 4.9 is your best bet for a Kentrosaurus estimate on current material (?)

[light oxide]

Hold on -- found something that states something about a 6m Kentrosaurus: https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.22701

[light oxide]

(But it also states something about a 7-9m Stegosaurus, so unsure of how reliable it would be.)

[stiff osprey]

Excellent, the largest femur in this paper yields a 5.5m animal. Most specimens are around 4.5m

[light oxide]

Noice

[keen forum]

big lad

[stiff osprey]

4.6 and 5.5m kentros compared to a 7m Ceratosaurus and 8.2m Allosaurus

[light oxide]

I feel like a 5.5m kentro would work a bit better.

[light osprey]

The 7.8 metre Stegosaurus would be quite the giant

[stiff osprey]

yeesh, the 5.5m Kentro weighs about 1800kg, but only moves at 11-12 km/h

[light oxide]

Er, a 8.2m Allosaurus, I think, would be about 2.3m tall, hip height, while the 7.8m stegosaurus is 3m tall, hip height.

[clever sable]

So, if I'm to attempt an amateur estimate for sarcosuchus, what do you think would be a quick way to get a result?

[light osprey]

If your gonna keep the speeds reasonable, I’d hope there was a way to increase the Kentrosaurus reflect damage.

[light oxide]

There is

[stiff osprey]

monster

[light osprey]

I guess you could just increase the CW in general, since I think it should be quite strong

[clever sable]

RIP that allosaurus

[light oxide]

Unless it knows what it's doing.

[stiff osprey]

I'd rather Kentro have realistic stats and an unrealistic speed, than it do more damage than Stego or something
But that's up to the modders

[light osprey]

But I don’t quite understand the CW system, like I would prefer it to have a lower health pool but would Kentro having a high CW proportionally throw that off?

[clever sable]

Well, we do know that an allosaurus did indeed get killed by a stegosaurs

[light oxide]

Yep

[light oxide]

Now I'm wondering how Camptosaurus would fare -- the length is 7.8m, right Randomdinos?

[stiff osprey]

Here's a 7m Stego for comparison - we don't have an average, but the average must be somewhere between 6 and 7.8m, so 🤷

[light osprey]

That seems a bit more reasonable. Make room for a medium sized sauropod maybe?

[clever sable]

Hey uh, you don't gotta if it's too hard but can you maybe do something like this for a couple giant prehistoric Crocs, you don't gotta if it's too difficult, sorry I asked

[stiff osprey]

I already did, but it's outdated. Not interested in making a new one since giant extinct crocs aren't described well
https://www.deviantart.com/randomdinos/art/Tick-Tock-Mk-III-703542464

[clever sable]

Thankies

Mmmmm, sarcosuchus and Purussaurus (purussaurus is the best prehistoric croc and you can't change my mind)

[light oxide]

Just a heads up, Purussaurus was downsized recently.

[stiff osprey]

I'll be honest, even at giant sizes Campto looks like an easy meal

[clever sable]

I know, it was downsized from 12.5 meters to 10.5 I think and 5.69 tonnes, this is the most up to date size chart atm

Ngl, I really like this overhead style of chart, it really shows off the scale of crocs

[light oxide]

Yeah -- a little over 10m. 👍

[clever sable]

So what's everyone's opinion on how spinosaurus lived? Do you believe wader or pursuit predator?

[compact leaf]

I wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if it wasn’t either of those

[clever sable]

Yeah, it isn't really built like a wader and pursuit predator would be extremely difficult because sail and lung capacity

[compact leaf]

do we have any estimates on its lung capacity?

[jagged trellis]

aerial hunter ambushing from cliff sides to snatch mid sized animals and use the rotating blades to cut up the vitals

[stiff osprey]

7.8m Camptosaurus moves between 30.1 and 37.8 km/h, slower than both Allo and Cerato. I think a 6m Campto may genuinely be reasonable, as that one would be faster (39-46 km/h) and weigh ~910kg

[clever sable]

Yes, and it would make diving incredibly difficult because of how much air it's body would have in it between the lung capacity and the air sacs so submerging would be near impossible iirc

[light oxide]

I see

[compact leaf]

do you happen to have the paper or know who the authors are?

[light oxide]

How big would a 6m Camptosaurus be compared to the 7m stegosaurus, 8.2m allosaurus, 7m ceratosaurus, and 5.5m kentrosaurus?

[clever sable]

It's one of the things they looked into on the spinosaurus was not aquatic paperhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9711522

[light osprey]

Yeah this was the measurement I was familiar with, had no idea it was over 7 meters 😳

[light oxide]

The biggest ones could, anyways.

[clever sable]

Campto still feels like lunchable at the 7.8 meter size

[stiff osprey]

It's just one insane specimen that's way bigger than every other Camptosaurus, he was built different

[clever sable]

It's obviously a different genus (saurophagonax moment, although it does actually look like saurophagonax is a unique genus)

[light osprey]

46km/h seems fast enough for the fella

[light oxide]

Scotty/Sue moment, Ima right? XD

Anyways, it's actually a good thing that ranges were given for the speeds -- that way, I can see what speeds would seem most reasonable balance wise.

[compact leaf]

it was relevant earlier but if you’re using larramendis formula for quadrupeds you have to be really careful, it’s really made for bipeds and quadrupeds tend to have a lot of other factors that go into their running speed

[storm heron]

Speaking of Purrusaurus, I heard it has adaptations that aid it in terrestrial locomotion. Would someone elaborate more on this?

[clever sable]

I have never heard of this And I kinda doubt it

[light osprey]

Oh is the 46km/h Larramendis?

[compact leaf]

oh I don’t know I was just throwing it out there unrelated to that

[light oxide]

I think? Randomdinos can answer that for ye.

[stiff osprey]

46 km/h is Hirt et al's, it's based on modern animals and will usually yield faster estimates than Larramendi does.

As for Purussaurus, it has an extra sacral vertebra and a more erect posture to support its weight on land, so it would have a higher walk than other giant crocs

[clever sable]

Wait, so what was the largest creature in the Morrison formation?

[light osprey]

Brachiosaurus

[clever sable]

Purussaurus is just the best at everything, also is this accurate to give purussaurus a bulla? It feels kinda funky looking but idk

[stiff osprey]

Brachiosaurus, or Barosaurus, or Maraapunisaurus, or the adult Oklahoma Apatosaurine... who knows

[storm heron]

Erect, as in, more upright/slope-like posture?

[light oxide]

I thought it was Supersaurus that was the biggest in the Morrison Formation, unless I got my information wrong on that one.

(Well, at least the longest)

[clever sable]

This whole purussaurus reconstruction looks kinda whack ngl

[light osprey]

I stick to Brachiosaurus because it seems a lot Diplodocoids end up with freaky and wacko size estimates.

[pearl briar]

...add sauro & torvo then boom... u got urself a nice jurassic gang

[clever sable]

Maraapunisaurus moment

[light oxide]

True -- it do be like that. XD

[light osprey]

I think you’d have to pick one because they have a temporal separation

[pearl briar]

oh damn...
sauro then

[stiff osprey]

No, bullae are exclusive to gharials. Puru would have a somewhat bulbous nose because the nostril is the size of a toilet, but not a bulla

[light osprey]

Lol

[clever sable]

Sarco had a bulla too (at least I think)

[tiny holly]

torvo over sauro any day, if you're already including allo. Sauro is an allosaurid, torvo is completely different and very cool and unique 👍 this post made by megalosaurid gang

[light osprey]

Both are very cool, but I prefer the Torvosaurus mods more than the Saurophaganax

[light oxide]

Honestly, Torvosaurus would be a better choice to add next then Saurophaganax -- the PoT Allosaurus is essentially already Saurophaganax.

That and we can add Diplodocus as the herbivore to go with Torvosaurus, making sure that balance is kept fair . . . ish.

[light osprey]

Diplodocus mod is very oversized though, or at least the one I know of

[tough parcel]

Good thing they’re making it bigger than ever

[light oxide]

So I have heard. Can be a simple fix, though.

[clever sable]

It's not oversized but it's neck is erect (at least I don't think it's oversized, I haven't seen it compared to other creatures in PoT)

[tough parcel]

Imagine it being oversized, what kinda bozo would do that lol

[clever sable]

Diplos neck should not be positioned like this!

[light osprey]

Take a look at the shoulder height

[tiny holly]

Also hot take but I don't think oversizing is that big of a deal most of the time anyway so long as its not like. 2x the size lmao. Basically every living reptile today has a really variable size range and we don't have enough of a sample size for any dinosaur to actually figure out averages and what were the extremes. For game purposes makes sense to just scale it based on what works for the balance, using irl sizes to generally inform things ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[clever sable]

Oop, found a comparison

[pearl briar]

she be do T A L L

[tough parcel]

Even then, 2x the size is reasonable

[clever sable]

Why is bros neck Erect

[light osprey]

Yeah that is astonishingly big

[clever sable]

Thal is 3x sized iirc

[tiny holly]

Depending but yeah even as I typed that i was like hm not that bad actually. Like taking the largest rex specimen and making that 2x is a bit overkill but for most dinosaurs its actually not even that odd. In particular the smaller you go

Also wasn't there a recent study claiming diplodocus may have actually held its neck more diagonally vertical rather than horizontal or am I misremembering

[light osprey]

I personally prefer not to sway away from what we can extrapolate from the fossil material, even when it comes to something like Alioramus with no mature specimens, best to play it safe and base its size off of the Qianzhousaurus holotype.

[clever sable]

Yes but not that vertically, it's neck would have been like this

[tough parcel]

No

[light oxide]

They did say this (one of the developers did, at least):

[light osprey]

I think Diplodocus would’ve had a more erect neck posture than that

[tough parcel]

Hartman is “wrong” here. He’s technically right, but that’s not a true neutral pose

That’s how the bones rest when fitted together, but looking at modern animals, the neck is as seen

[clever sable]

What is the neutral pose?

[tough parcel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauropod_neck_posture

https://bioone.org/journals/acta-palaeontologica-polonica/volume-54/issue-2/app.2009.0007/Head-and-Neck-Posture-in-Sauropod-Dinosaurs-Inferred-from-Extant/10.4202/app.2009.0007.full

(I think the paper I linked is the one, it’s been so long)

[light osprey]

Does this include Macronarians as well?

The paper I mean not this specific neck posture*

[rose thorn]

Macronarians are automatically built vertical

[clever sable]

Ah ok, skimmed through it quickly, but still, it's neck would not have been as erect as shown in the mod

[tough parcel]

It’s fine

[tiny holly]

The mod is barely more vertical than the way it is in the paper though, and its not unusual for the tpose of a model to be off from how itll actually look in animation

[clever sable]

Nah, it's really not

[tough parcel]

Yah, it really is

[stiff osprey]

that is like, a perfect neutral posture
But that Diplo is 35+ meters long, which is horrendous

[light osprey]

Like I said, astonishingly big.

[tiny holly]

hi

[clever sable]

They thought they were making maraapunisaurus

[tough parcel]

This is what happens when photoshop doesn’t give me the ability to measure the rucking centra

[light osprey]

Throw an Apatosaurus and Brachiosaurus in there for fun as well, ecosystem or whatever.

[clever sable]

Huh, I guess I was wrong

So has low browser Diplo been disproven with this finding?

[pearl briar]

is that an allo besides diplo & rex???

[rose thorn]

It’s an Allo and Das

[tiny holly]

not necessarily, its the neutral pose but plenty of grazers irl hold their heads high in a neutral pose anyway

[light osprey]

Wait hol up, speaking of Apatosaurines, what’s their neutral position?

[clever sable]

Idk, probably similar

[pearl briar]

wait it's a daspleto???
not rex???

[tiny holly]

Range of motion/reach is really what matters most when it comes to feeding envelope

[rose thorn]

Nvm

[light osprey]

So with this wide range of motion, would the big macronarians still have a higher browsing height?

[pearl briar]

what...

[light oxide]

Most likely.

[light osprey]

On a somewhat related note if it were me doing a formation specific roster within the confines of Path of Titans, I would do something like Dinosaur Park, seems like there’s a substantial roster already in the base game for that one.

[rose thorn]

Dinosaur Park and Morrison have the most rep

[light oxide]

I just feel like doing the Morrison formation and doing Allosaurus justice, for being seen as the same as Saurophaganax instead, height length and all.

[light osprey]

A respectable cause 🫡

[light oxide]

#JusticeForAllosaurus

[pearl briar]

ok but where's justice for cera?
she needs better life y'know

[light osprey]

If I had the talent, the James Ross Island deposits would be a really friggin cool thing to translate to mods

[light oxide]

Oh, Cera will be getting justice too -- it's practically almost as big as Allosaurus, just a tad smaller. But more manueverable.

I just thought of a better paleo hashtag:

#JusticeForMorrisonFormation

[light osprey]

Question for the lil smarties pants, how close would Paleorhincodon be in appearance to the modern whale sharks?

[stray wren]

Given how little information we have on it, and its placement currently as a very close relative of modern whale sharks. It'd likely look fairly similar

[light osprey]

Fair enough, how much material for it?

[stray wren]

Some teeth, basically

[light osprey]

Oh, that’s not swell. Would it have even been possible to estimate a size?

[stray wren]

they're just different enough to not be modern whale shark teeth, as for size, not quite sure but given how small whale shark teeth are anyway I'd assume similar sizes

[light osprey]

Oh ok. That’s strange how a filter feeder that size managed to populate some areas during the Maastrichtian. Maybe there’s something I don’t know about it’s climate yet 😳

[pearl briar]

but wait...
who is the insects top predator???
dragonflies or praying mantis?

[tiny holly]

parasitoid wasp

[pearl briar]

wasps?

[tiny holly]

assassin bugs are a good contender too. Ants even.

[pearl briar]

oh damn...
i thought insects top predator are neither dragonflies, praying mantis, & ladybugs lol

[frosty anvil]

Both are great choices... but i say dragonfly is more like a big awd while the mantis is more like a tiger? The dragonfly is successful like the awd meanwhile the mantis devours anything from bugs to frogs to birds
For that reason i say between these two mantis

[tiny holly]

parasitoid wasps are incredibly diverse and numerous. Like I'm talking hundreds of thousands of species. They all use bugs/bug's eggs to lay their own eggs, with the grubs growing up inside the host and eating them alive. Make no mistake, parasitoid wasps rule the world. There isn't an insect out there safe from their ire

[frosty anvil]

But overall? Ants. Ants are horrifying. And neat.

[pearl briar]

man
L ladybirds then

[frosty anvil]

Ohh this is a great point, now im conflicted

[tiny holly]

Also fun fact is that the clade of parasitoid wasps is so huge it also contains numerous groups that lost that parasitism... including ants. Technically speaking ants are part of the parasitoid wasp clade 👍

[light oxide]

And they suffer. A LOT. There are many animal species (and other organism) that have learned to take advantage of ants.

On a paleo-related note, I do wonder what time period the first ant evolved (to our current understanding).

[stiff osprey]

aren't there wasps that parasitise the parasitoid wasps while they're parasitizing stuff?

the clade is big enough it must've happened at some point

[tiny holly]

There is iirc yeah. Wasps in general are just wild like that, some of them are so insanely specialised

[light oxide]

I . . . honestly wouldn't even be surprised.

The insect world is VERY different.

[pearl briar]

gawd dayum...
what did ladybugs/ladybirds eat then?

[frosty anvil]

Aphids

[little mauve]

Middle Cretaceous roughly

[frosty anvil]

Which is funny because some ant species raise those like cattle iirc

[tiny holly]

Fig wasps are nuts. Females crawl into a fig before it (the fig) matures. The larvae grow up inside eating tasty fig. After males pupate they mate with females before they've finished pupating, so they emerge already pregnant. Males usually just die after that, females leave and lay their eggs in a new fig. Many fig wasps are adapted for a specific species of fig too. There's a lot of cases like this among wasps where they're just so, so specialised that they will absolutely get wiped out from the smallest disturbance

[stiff osprey]

the fig eats the wasp before you eat the fig, as they say

[tiny holly]

imagine being a male fig wasp destined to spend your entire life cycle inside a single fruit. nature is beautiful

[stiff osprey]

If all you know is the fig, then you can't want for anything inside the fig 😎

one of the worst animals to turn somebody into though

[tiny holly]

You rely on the fig and the fig relies on you for pollination, if anything happens to either of you that's it. That being said it seems they've been doing this since potentially since the start of figs being a thing (aka before the kpg extinction) so obviously it works for them??

It's really weird to reflect on. Usually when you have a case of mutalism like this where the life cycles of these organisms depend on each other they don't do well during disruptive events like mass extinctions, because a decline in one organism is a decline in both. But this has been going on since the late cretaceous???

[clever sable]

Dragonflies iirc, they have a 97% success rate in Hunting

[light oxide]

Robber flies, though, are VERY close competition for dragonflies.

[stoic tinsel]

dainty mayflies are infinitely worse

[pearl briar]

hey hey now wait a frickin minute...
so that's mean that rex can run up to 21-27 km/h???

[vocal breach]

perhaps

[pearl briar]

...
alright that's it
it's officially over
we, humans cannot outrun a rex (unless if u were usain bolt lol)

[vocal breach]

what if T-rex used its nose to fabricate bombs and shoot them out of it's mouth, theres no reason its nose cavity had to be that big, he makes bombs in his nose and shoots it at enemies

[pearl briar]

...
what if spino was a whale

[vocal breach]

Spino was an arthropod we just haven found its shell yet, I shall re-dub it Spinarachne aegypticus

[pearl briar]

uhh km...
so it's 8-13 tons for rex weight now?!?!?

[storm heron]

Becareful with the 13000kg estimate.

[heady thunder]

Or dont

[ripe wedge]

they released their math it holds up

[heady thunder]

MATH!

[heady thunder]

This was for Sue right?

[ripe wedge]

yeah, the jfd one

[heady thunder]

Scotty should be a bit bigger then.

[tiny holly]

Where was this when we were having that debate with the 12t triceratops dude

[eager skiff]

Who did this?

[ripe wedge]

jagged fang designs

[eager skiff]

Thanks

[heady thunder]

It was holding back, classic anime type sh!t

[tranquil quartz]

Big John was starting to annoy me in that debate

[sudden wind]

I am waiting for comments comming from other people before claiming 13 tons to be right, given that this Tyrannosaurus model is greatly inflated at the ribs, hips and tail.

[tiny holly]

Yeah kinda the problem with size estimates given we don't really know exactly how much soft tissue they had. In particular because the bigger an animal is, the more even a tiny increment more is going to change things thanks to good old square cube law. Skin that's 1cm thicker on a dog sized animal won't change their weight all that much, but on something elephant sized? a lot

[keen forum]

atm at least

[keen forum]

the ribs are okay they use randoms they aren't inflated its just the neck and tail that have more muscle on them and the legs iirc,
i don't know where the inflated ribs claim came form thats from the mount

[white matrix]

What’s bigger tylo or mosa? iirc it’s tylo but y’all know more then me

[tranquil quartz]

Iirc on average Mosa is larger but when it comes to big specimens Tylo is larger

[heady thunder]

Tylo has that one 22 ton specimen ye?

[tranquil quartz]

Yea biggest estimates for Tylo are 22 tons

[white matrix]

So ingame tylo would probably be the second heaviest creature?

[tranquil quartz]

Yea I think Leed would be heaviest then Tylo, but if the mystery dinosaur turns out to be something like patagotitan ( extremely unlikely) it would be third heaviest iirc

[white matrix]

Is patagotitan over 20m long

[tranquil quartz]

I mean probably its one of the largest creatures to have ever lived so it probably got that long, I don’t know size estimates for it though

[white matrix]

You can’t fund a creature that’s over 20m long

[heady thunder]

There arent many things over Leeds max estimates being like 40 tons, so unless the mystery dino is something like a crazy sauropod or a megalodon I believe leed will be the biggest creature in the roster.

[pearl briar]

#NerfRexForCryinOutLoud

#BuffSpinoForCryinOutLoud

[stiff osprey]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/385574099797409803/1123978924683178134/IMG_9074.png
this seems to be why the model is so overweight

[heady thunder]

Only 22% wider?
Ive seen people be double the width of other people, I thought it was smth crazy like 60%

[stiff osprey]

Sue is the proportionally widest rex, so take this double wide person and increase it by a further 22% and you have a better comparison

[keen forum]

wait a min its not to meters wide tho, also the picture on top was already to scaled with the bottom just the meter bars were out of wack, what did SiW do literal just move the model down

[heady thunder]

Hey, Ive seen some BIG people.

[stiff osprey]

Doesn't matter, rex is a wild animal (so it was not subject to morbid obesity) and has a sample size of around 50 versus 8 billion humans

[keen forum]

Also just to say this here that rex by paleop is 11tons its not the 13t one one

[heady thunder]

Wait isnt this the same one?
Did they change the estimate?

[stiff osprey]

seems like everyone mistook it for the same model, including me, but it's a different one

[keen forum]

no that is paleops rex not the jfd rex

[heady thunder]

Isnt it the one they scaled to look closely to the jfd one tho?

[stiff osprey]

they're all (allegedly) scaled to Sue's size

[keen forum]

pretty much ben used this as a ref but got a higher estimate

[light osprey]

For which specimen?

[ripe wedge]

none of tylo's specimens are that big

[light osprey]

Yeah not even Bonker, the highest I heard for that fella was 14-15 meters

[true urchin]

wasnt the upper estimate 17m? i cant remember

[light osprey]

Yes I think the 14-15 is far more likely

[chilly knot]

So choose between bigger than Mosa or bigger than mosa

[light osprey]

I find very odd that we would make the assumption that proriger would’ve gotten larger than hoffmannii in the first place.

Proriger seems to have been exclusively in the WIS which severely limited the environment in which it could grow in. Just outside of that area the size of prey available for mosasaurs seems to drastically increase, along with a higher density of Elasmosaurids. Heck even that Aristonectes is far larger than anything Proriger could’ve have been eating so… where’s the sense in that?

[clever sable]

Did it live during the campanian?

[light osprey]

The range for the genus as a whole seems to be from the Turonian to Maastrichtian

[clever sable]

Do you think tylo ever encountered a deinosuchus hatcheri?

[sudden wind]

Possible.

But anyway, about Tylosaurus's size, it isn't completely clear about how large the biggest specimens are. Though, one thing is sure : they are larger than the largest Mosasaurus formally known from unfragmentary piss poop remains looking at this quadrate.

[light osprey]

Quadrate

But my entire spiel basically communicated nothing

[scenic flame]

I'm willing to go with 13 tons being the max size for rex outside maybe a few genetic anomalies etc, or actual gigantism

I wanna see a rex with dwarfism though

[clever sable]

I must see midget rex

[white matrix]

Or just a a baby

[white matrix]

Emu

[clever sable]

Baby rexes look nothing like adult rexes

[white matrix]

So an adult Rex that's small is what u want

[clever sable]

Yesh

[white matrix]

Cool

[white matrix]

More like a cassowary with the sounds they make

[covert lintel]

that's more like an armless short-tailed ornithomimid tbh

[tough parcel]

https://twitter.com/PrimevalArtist/status/1674480851013214228?s=20

Falcon9 (Commissions Open!) (@PrimevalArtist)

Shaking the ground, in comes Shantungosaurus! This massive Cretaceous animal currently holds the record for largest hadrosaur, an impressive feat considering the sizes its relatives grew to. This was done as a request, so sadly it does not fit into #JurassicJune...

Twitter · Jun 29, 2023, 6:11 PM

[chilly knot]

Dad?

[clever sable]

What are the current estimates for Shant?

[tough parcel]

I wanna say 18-20 tons

[heady thunder]

Wasnt it 16?

[hallow spear]

prolly lower, the neural spines inflate it a heck ton

[stoic tinsel]

nah that was edmont

[clever sable]

Shant is the largest non sauropod dinosaur

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9711522/ so what are everyone's opinions on this paper

[hallow spear]

+nah hes right
a model of shant that got 16.2t exists and is good to use

[frigid coral]

not great

I read it fully a while back, it jumps around a whole lot and it doesn’t really support the stuff enough so that it’s convincing

I cant remember if it was this paper or another, but it uses a Basilisk or some other lizard as a comparison for Spinosaurus tail being for display, which is a bad argument considering the anatomy of both creatures tails have 0 alike and said lizard is also semi aquatic

[proud perch]

@dusky galleon Please don't post off topic here this channel is for paleo discussion only. Make sure you read the pinned messages in all channels you plan to use.

[dusky galleon]

Oh I thought it also was various science topics. Sorry

[covert lintel]

don't currently have the time/energy to read the whole thing and provide my thoughts on Every Little Thing, but i do feel it's worth mentioning how incredibly thick they made the tail on their spinosaurus model - at the base, it actually seems to be wider than the thighs, which... i don't think is thought to be the case in any dinosaur? if nothing else, this probably impacts their conclusion on whether it was a biped or a quadruped.

[sudden wind]

Spinosaurus's tail do ressemble a lot to basilisk's.

https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/8Fy7gwPi9nSjfG27hsmsBePx_PpLFQ87jUr1jXGiTZw/https/pbs.twimg.com/media/FjjEoTkaAAABIYj.jpg?width=625&height=910

[frigid coral]

they do resemble it in that degree ofc, im talking about the overall picture, which looking at it now seems a bit silly of me to do

[sudden wind]

Spinosaurus's caudals are small, thin and the neural spine isn't shaped as to support a lot of muscle mass.

I would still think that it potentially made it a better swimmer than other non avian theropod dinosaurs were, like basilisk lizards also having a slighty better time when it comes to swimming compared to average lizard with thick round tail. However, the whole animal isn't quite hydrodynamic and the front part of it creates a lot of dragg, which the tail isn't powerful enough to counter.

Also btw, this is Hydrosaurus.

[clever sable]

Yeah, it's sail would kinda prevent it from turning, which is kinda required for an aquatic pursuit predator, I personally don't think it's a wader or a pursuit predator because it's anatomy isn't very well built for either of those tbh

[little mauve]

From the paper: "Two stages are clarified in the evolution of Spinosaurus, which is best understood as a semiaquatic bipedal ambush piscivore that frequented the margins of coastal and inland waterways." I pretty much agree with this

[sudden wind]

When you also look at a basilisk lizard, you see that the neural spine structure of the caudals are similar : thin and does not support strong muscle attachments.

[clever sable]

I think spino probably was an above average swimmer but I Don't think that's how it hunted, it was probably pretty good at swimming in a straight line though

[frigid coral]

I’ve brought it up before, and I’ll bring it up again, Spinosaurus using front and back limbs to hippo hop underwater. It has the density (according to a member on here not long ago), so I’m curious how plausible that may be

[stray wren]

Ehh, the density isn't anywhere near a hippo, but it was relatively dense. It was more than likely a very good swimmer, but it wasn't an underwater pursuit predator

[neat drum]

Unlikely iirc, it prob just swam like any other theropod

[sudden wind]

I think Spinosaurus propbably di its own thing, but I personally think it would be closer to a wader than an aquatic pursuit hunter. I doubt it would spent much time underwater given how bad its anatomy is for underwater maneuvring. Though, it would not have stroke like a heron or a stork given its teeth being splayed outward, like that of crocodylians, sauropterygians and even some cetaceans. It would have been a snap feeder, utilizing horizontal strikes instead of vertical, like seen in crocodylians.

Its short legs aren't necessarly a problem for it to be a wader because it is a huge animal. It honestly makes more sense to have rather short legs instead of long one, instead as seen in wading birds (because those are small). It could also potentially help it to stay stable in waters where the current could be strong as its COG would be lower and closer to the ground. It could also maybe help it to go through thick mud based in hippos, but that isn't really provable (Colubridae was the one to propose this idea, maybe he can explain it better than me).

[neat drum]

You explained it p well

[frigid coral]

Not near it but enough that it’d be possible, I think

[sudden wind]

How dense is Spinosaurus already ?

[frigid coral]

I’ll have to check

[stray wren]

Its more dense than other theropods, for sure, but it wasn't negatively bouyant like hippos or like Ankylosaurs where they just sunk

[sudden wind]

If it's above 1, it sinks. If it's less than 1, it floats.

[little mauve]

I forget the study, but this is the figure on bone density in vertebrates

[hallow spear]

What people fail to realise that things don’t have to be identical

[frigid coral]

I don’t mean identical, just something similar to it

[light osprey]

They are rather dense for dinosaurs I’ll give them that

The margin is not massive, but it’s there I guess

[stiff osprey]

Other spinosaurids were efficient waders with (and likely because of) their long legs, and Spinosaurus did not live in an environment with strong river currents that might have toppled it over. Instead, the short legs just make it so it has a worse feeding range than its relatives, being limited to shallower water where its torso and tail won't scare away fish

[shut ruin]

If an adult specimen of alioramus is found would the devs change it?

[stiff osprey]

Sucho and some other stuff have gotten model updates, so probably? Unless the adult Alioramus is too different and ruins its current playstyle

[clever sable]

Do you think that ichthyovenator was a wader?

[light osprey]

The sucho remodel just missed the I. challengeri paper lol

[stiff osprey]

Ichthyo/Irritator seem to be starting down the route of whatever Spinosaurus is doing, but I'd say they were still mainly waders

[clever sable]

Spino was a duck that floated around 👍 (this is a joke)

[shut ruin]

@stiff osprey it's theorised to still be a fast dino regardless I doubt it would anything other than slightly bigger

[light osprey]

I honestly can’t even come up with a theory on their paleo-ecology, so many factors with that fella and everyone will end up bombarding me telling me I read the paper wrong and x, y, z, etc etc.

[clever sable]

Spino probably lived in a very unique lifestyle

[chilly knot]

No way

[white matrix]

Mind blowing

[ocean drum]

I damn new that Bruhathkayosaurus would surpass Argentinosaurus is size

[white matrix]

Huh

[tulip dove]

X to doubt

[white matrix]

fr

[ocean drum]

https://youtube.com/shorts/vngvGo6RaRk?feature=share

I couldn't find the papers I had seen before but I have this

[white matrix]

This dude ain't reliable

[tulip dove]

Estimates based on a single bone that was measured like decades ago

[white matrix]

Dinosaurs known from vertebrae be like

[tulip dove]

Like nah, I bet that it is the same ''titanosaur larger than Argentinosaurus discovered only for it to be smaller than it'' thing happens

[compact leaf]

the actual bone is lost too, the only thing we have from it is a not great probably poorly scaled drawing

[woeful falcon]

Can dinotubers go extinct

[tranquil quartz]

God damm that guy loves spreading misinformation

[tulip dove]

Like how reliable is that guy in general?

[tranquil quartz]

On a scale of 1-10 hes like a 3 for reliability

[white matrix]

Their most accurate video is the who's the biggest theropod one

[novel atlas]

https://vxtwitter.com/SirBlameson/status/1674144409947086852?t=aPRnHVD7BCtaJvA5YMJdyA&s=19

[tranquil quartz]

And im pretty sure theres still some issues with the estimates he gives in that video iirc

[white matrix]

Yeah

[sudden wind]

Nice Meg pfp

[white matrix]

Thanks

[clever sable]

How do you feel about oxalaia?

[stiff osprey]

Nice S.aegyptiacus specimen-

I mean, probably a distinct species, but reconstructing it would essentially just be a smaller Spinosaurus, since that's its closest relative

[tranquil quartz]

Quick question since we are talking about Spinosaurids. What did Suchosaurus turn out to be since im aware its invalid iirc

[clever sable]

What do you think has a better chance of being valid, Dakotaraptor or oxalaia?

[chilly knot]

I agree

[clever sable]

Also, how fast would spinosaurus be on land?

[stiff osprey]

Oxalaia, and yes

[clever sable]

? Has nobody done speed estimates for spinosaurus?

[stiff osprey]

I could make some. But we don't even know that thing can walk

[clever sable]

Well, better question, are there any speed estimates for oxalaia (I didn't ask because it's so fragmentary)

[chilly knot]

Only god knows quite literally

Oxalaia couldn't suck more

[light osprey]

Oxalaia? Never heard of it

[white matrix]

There's no way we can get a speed estimate for Oxalaia

[clever sable]

Yeah thought so

[woeful falcon]

if Spino ain't fairing well for a speed estimate, Oxalaia ain't either

[clever sable]

Well I dunno what spinos speed estimate is

[woeful falcon]

exactly.

How Spinosaurus even moved on land has been in debate for some time, so Oxalaia is in a similar, if not the same, boat. It would be reconstructed using Spinosaurus for missing elements (basically the entire animal)

[frigid coral]

How is this Irritator/anything I should adjust or add? Based off this skeletal

[light osprey]

Wouldn’t it be more useful to just use the water speed estimates? What else do we need for the fella

[frigid coral]

(quills and the crest are due to requests and not based off actual material)

[pearl briar]

my shantungo size references (so far)

1. Falcon9 (you)
2. Fabio Alejandro (dragonthunders)

but otherwise
nice shant falcon 👍👍

[frigid coral]

does anyone have a random modern animal to turn into a color scheme for irritator

[light oxide]

Kingfisher?

[chilly knot]

Boobys

[light osprey]

Indeed

[frigid coral]

I’ll do kingfisher for another creature or the hatchlings and blue footed Boobys for the adults

[white matrix]

What is that top view

[chilly knot]

[frigid coral]

It’s just a sketch I did with zero reference lmao, I’ll fix it once I’m actually beyond a rough draft

[light osprey]

Wait, you can’t do boobys, that’s what I want for Alcione 😭

[tranquil quartz]

Little Penguin Irritator

[woeful falcon]

Well, that Irritator's tail is based on Spinosaurus's. so it'd be wise to make it like spinosaurus's, both from the top and the side

[frigid coral]

Alr, I’ll edit it to match.

The top view looks like some strange species of sea slug right now

[woeful falcon]

and also, you generally wanna follow the silhouette because its there representing the soft tissue. While you can add some extra, you kind of want to abide by it or close to it. I say this especially for the neck

[frigid coral]

Alr, looking at it now I think I made the neck too thick, so I’ll use the reference more closely. I have a habit of making the necks of theropods too thick

[woeful falcon]

let PoT sucho and Spino be examples, they're Spinosaurids just like Irritator. They have long slender s shaped necks. Irritator would have something like that

[light osprey]

Wait what’s going on in the pubic area?

[frigid coral]

was fixed in the current wip, originally I was putting random lines tryna figure out the tail and forgot to erase it

without the context it looks a lot weirder

Fixed everything accordingly now. Time to fix the top view, does anyone have a good reference for a Spinosaurid top view?

[tough parcel]

Possibly this one, but it's a bit old

[frigid coral]

Thank you! I appreciate it

[woeful falcon]

well no it should be of Spinosaurus because that's what the tail is from

for the tail at least. idk about the rest of the body

[frigid coral]

Ah alright

[limpid vapor]

A new sauropod has surpassed Argentinosaur as the largest Dinosaur that we know. Bruhathkayosaurus.

[frigid coral]

Yeah no
Afaik the material doesn’t even exist anymore besides a poorly scaled drawing, it was just some dude tryna get views if I am correct as to where you got that info from

[clever sable]

No, literally just no, it's material literally disintegrated off the face of the earth, please tell me you don't watch dinofax for your Paleo info

[frigid coral]

did you just block me over that

[tranquil quartz]

Why do dinotubers get so much attention and then proceed to spread misinformation like wildfire

[frigid coral]

dinofax has no right to be as popular as they are
Most of their content is just misinfo or bare minimum facts to get views and they are praised for it

[tranquil quartz]

OMG 18,000 PEOPLE HAVE SEEN THAT SAUROPOD VIDEO OMD

[white matrix]

How big would that sauropod actually have been

[light osprey]

The sussyness of the comment matched the profile picture who would’ve thought

[tranquil quartz]

Probably less than Argent and we can’t even make accurate estimates, Bruths material disintegrated years ago

[elfin pulsar]

Really?

[inland thunder]

although most likely fake, but god damn bruhath was chonky

[light osprey]

It seems to be not a lithostrotian (?) as well as seemingly having a misidentified stratigraphic location, it probably wasn’t a latest Maastrichtian sauropod.

[tranquil quartz]

This type of situation happens all the time it happened with Patago and Dread and then those were disproven but the thing is the Bruth estimates are literally just estimates but forward by 2 controversial individuals and a poorly scaled drawing

[pearl briar]

no ffs
bruhath is no more no no no
argentino are still 🔛🔝

[inland thunder]

W argentino

[pearl briar]

comment that to his video now 😈

[light osprey]

Tbh I’m sure all those big Lognkosaurians probably reached the same sizes at their largest in life.

[inland thunder]

nah nah nah, everybody here comments that

[tranquil quartz]

I commented on the video saying he was wrong and 3 of his fans flamed and insulted me and insisted I was wrong💀

[light osprey]

You fool don’t question him

[inland thunder]

W

yo guys, how big was Yutyrannus and what was its prey?

bro

[frigid coral]

does anyone have prime examples of misinfo from them besides this recent video? wanna make something for educating others because dear god does their misinfo spread far

[light osprey]

Man really was wrong twice 💀

[clever sable]

Well he has one about the 3 largest crocodilians in which he states that deinosuchus is 33 feet (although he does properly identify sarco as not a true crocodilian)

[gray zealot]

agrees that it is not a valid genus
this animal still existed

[tranquil quartz]

Yea in total today he’s misinformed about 90,000 people which is certain to increase in numbers due to the popularity these types of content creators get.

[light osprey]

Look how precious this Alcione is

[clever sable]

I DMed you a video

[frigid coral]

Alr

[covert lintel]

it's not new and the material literally disintegrated

[frigid coral]

I wanna make sure it’s okay to do that though, I don’t wanna send people harassing them or causing unnecessary drama anywho though

[tough parcel]

At least 2+ tons

[light osprey]

I think Dongbeititan would’ve been around 14 meters long?

[frigid coral]

Liaoceratops, Psittacosaurus, Mei, etc, I’d just check out the list of paleobiota, it afaik was the largest predator there, most things in the formation besides some sauropods would’ve been a meal for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleobiota_of_the_Yixian_Formation

[light osprey]

Surprisingly well studied formation

[inland thunder]

aight

[little mauve]

The Yixian is well worth a deep dive, especially if you're interested in paleoecology. It's one of the best preserved Mesozoic ecosystems we have

[light osprey]

Someone needs to go back to James Ross deposits Fr, I want more information on that ecosystem

[inland thunder]

Ngl, Jianchangosaurus yixianensis be fr hitting different

[pearl briar]

what user ru?

[clever sable]

I also must inquire this

[stoic tinsel]

not very considering it never existed in the first place

[stoic tinsel]

i think around 2.3 tonnes was the largest they got for the adult specimen right?

[stoic tinsel]

it would be eating pretty much anything in its environment but to be specific stuff like dongbeititan and jinzhousaurus would be decently common

[pearl briar]

poops this

[stoic tinsel]

oh those estimates are laughably small cause yuty was pretty huge

[sharp coral]

Spinosaurus is a W dinosaur

[pearl briar]

the dino that always got the nerf

[frigid coral]

nuh uh it got cooler

[pearl briar]

#BuffSpinoForCryinOutLoud
#NerfRexForCryinOutLoud

[sharp coral]

They turned ma boy into a seal 😔🙏

[barren compass]

who are some good dino youtubers

[clever sable]

Big

[frigid coral]

Eons is pretty good

[barren compass]

is red raptor writes a good one

[clever sable]

Not thedinofax that's for sure

[frigid coral]

Same for Edge and redraptorwrites

[tough parcel]

It’s cause the GDI they sourced it from used a laughably thin dorsal, dude was more than anorexic, he’s dead from starvation and rotting in the sun for 5 days

[stoic tinsel]

how could they do this to my favorite dinosaur

[pearl briar]

mmm roasted velo

but wait...
is this accurate?
https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSLS4yLo7/

i mean...
is this accurate?

[stiff osprey]

A 10 meter para would weigh quite a bit more than 3.5 t, look for fadeno's skeletals

[pearl briar]

i see

[elfin pulsar]

How fast you going

[pearl briar]

are there any 50ft long mosasaur?

[elfin pulsar]

It’s ok you’ll win if you’re determined enough

[stiff osprey]

it's like hitting a moose with a car, whatever wins, you lose

[tough parcel]

I absolutely love this guy, best paleo person I’ve ever seen. No skeletons in the closet and based as all hell. Truly the man everyone should aspire to be 👍

[sharp coral]

Death

[stiff osprey]

It's true, all my skeletons are in the attic. Took them out of the closet a few years ago

[tough parcel]

Random forced their skeletons to be outwardly gay, I can respect that

[pearl briar]

have i've ever made a kenyan giant abelisaur size info???

[barren compass]

it will never be bigger than ur mom

[woeful falcon]

Not much to make really until it's described

So like in 5 years

[clever sable]

Idk what this is supposed to be.....

[stray wren]

Not good is what

[umbral jacinth]

How many species of pterodactyl are there because last time I checked there was 0 and only a genus called pterodactyls

And group called pterodactyloidea

[tiny holly]

Correct. "Pterodactyl" is an informal term that incorrecrly gets used to refer to pterosaurs as a whole. Pterodactylus was the first pterosaur formally named so "pterodactyl" kind of caught on

Formally speaking pterodactyl isnt a thing, that word doesnt actually apply to anything that doesnt already have its own term

[stoic tinsel]

like who are these people im convinced these people cant read or havent looked at any paleotological article in the last year because not only did this guy state that giga didnt get upsized he was also under the impression that giga has somehow surpassed tyrannosaurus as well despite measurements for tyrannosaurus already being well over giga's upsize months prior

[frail robin]

New David Peters design dropped

[frail robin]

I wish we had gotten the Alcione fishing segment in the Oceans episode

[heady thunder]

This reminds me of the tail fluke PoT spino has, just that it should be at the start of the tail not the bottom

[tranquil quartz]

Im actually really intrigued how they simply don’t do their own research when learning about these things. They literally just listen to one of Dinofaxs shorts or tiktoks and believe everything he says to be 100% true.

[unborn bane]

Please remember to be respectful when discussing any topic. While critique is acceptable, paleo chat is not a place to make fun of or insult other people's art, depictions or content, and debates are not an excuse to insult another member of the community or to be disrespectful.

[wide glen]

https://youtube.com/shorts/vngvGo6RaRk?feature=share

Fact or cap?

[limpid skiff]

Well it is not really known as the singular bone we had for it is missing and pretty sure it was badly measured anyways

[wide glen]

But 130 tons for bruh is kinda pushing it

[limpid skiff]

We have 1 bone that confirms it exists and that’s missing so we have literally nothing to go off of

[wide glen]

I mean argent is 90 tons and if you use some form of measuring between the two I think that 130-170 tons is a really damn big overstatement

Plus I don’t think he mentioned finding more remains

[wide glen]

Don’t you love noodle necks 👍

[limpid skiff]

Why are sauropod a pain to find bones for cuz they all disintegrated

[wide glen]

The cooler icthyovenator:

[limpid skiff]

A cool thing that I don’t remember the name of

[white matrix]

Cap

[wide glen]

Apparently some guys at KTO are doing pot+ and it has a spino with a better posture with a tail fluke, Better Kai head, megalania actually looks intimidating, and Rex got a better face

[limpid skiff]

The spinosaurs are a goofy but cool bunch

[compact leaf]

the actual fossil of bruhathkayosaurus is long gone and was poorly measured (if it existed at all) and is only known from a drawing at this point so definitely don’t trust this

[limpid skiff]

That supermassive sauropod is cap as hell the single bone we had of it vanished years ago was badly measured and we are going off a rough sketch which mean I don’t call this a Dino I call it a myth

[tranquil quartz]

Major Cap

[wide glen]

Riparovenstor and ceratosuchops, rest in peace, they were forgotten

[plain agate]

How is it a myth but they had a bone?

[tiny holly]

so what im basically hearing is maraapunisaurus 2.0

[limpid skiff]

Because that bone was lost years ago and the only thing we even know it exists is a mediocre drawing

[tough parcel]

Worse because the drawing is actually just a 1st grader's scribbles

[plain agate]

Still it’s not a myth you said the bone went missing years ago so then it’s not a myth

[tiny holly]

hey now these are clearly highly scientific diagrams

Unfortunatley all there is to rely on is hearse. I wouldn't blame anyone for calling ti a myth because there isn't actually any decent proof it existed. Personally I do think they did actually find something, but there is 0 credibility to the claims of its size or anything like that

Dunno bout that, my bet is more on it being just a regular shmegular sized sauropod

[tranquil quartz]

Is it most likely to be in Titanosauria tho?

[tiny holly]

most likely yes, all known maastrichtian sauropods are titanosaurs. The formation its from dates to then

[inland thunder]

Dynamotitan from Prior extinction

[last tree]

I feel like thats gonna be the spinosaur family in about 10 years

[small temple]

Wouldn’t be surprised

[frail robin]

Neither would I lmao

[opal coral]

XD

[rain root]

lmao

[pearl briar]

kenyan giant abelisaur is bigger then pycnonemo & ekrixinato right?

[woeful falcon]

Way bigger than Ekrix. Ekrix isn't in the running for largest. Larger than Pycno from what I hear as I've seen it described as the largest abelisaurid

[unborn bane]

@white matrix Please do not post paleo memes in this channel as they're considered off-topic and not allowed. Refer to the pinned rules in every channel you plan to use.

[upbeat bough]

Yup, I don't doubt they found something, but claiming it's the biggest dino from a badly documented disappearing bone is hilarious

[small temple]

I mean, fun speculation doesn’t hurt anybody

[compact leaf]

there’s also a pretty decent chance it was actually petrified wood and not even a dinosaur

[pearl briar]

how's the tier?
iirc the tier are

1. Kenyan Giant
2. Pycno
   who's number 3?
   raja?

[tough parcel]

No lmao, Raja's small as heck

[pearl briar]

aww man

[tulip dove]

Carno is 3rd biggest afaik

[pearl briar]

I WAS RIGHT
SO CARNO IS THE 3RD

[woeful falcon]

Abelisaurus is just a head but where is it thought to be?

[tough parcel]

Mid-sized iirc, if not ""small""

[frigid coral]

What is the most reliable source for skeletals/references?

[woeful falcon]

Wherever the reputable artists post them regularly. Twitter, deviant art, artist websites

[pearl briar]

there's bunch of them but my reccomendation is twitter & deviantart

[frigid coral]

also also sorry if this is random, but does anyone have a top view of the 2020 Spinosaurus reconstruction? tryna remake a top view but I’m struggling to find anything for a paddle tail

[light osprey]

Rajasaurus gets heavier than Carnotaurus?

[pearl briar]

no carno is the 3rd not raja

[light osprey]

I thought so

[frail robin]

Wait... why do the elbows have joints? Aren't they supposed to lack them?

[heady thunder]

Maybe its a basal one

[tranquil quartz]

Yea it is a basal abelisaurid iirc

[tiny holly]

early cretaceous tells you what you need to know

[tranquil quartz]

God damm thats a cool name for a dinosaur ‘Ghost Hunter’

[wild raven]

Oof. Dino talk in this channel lol

[limpid vapor]

Incorrect

[clever sable]

It's material did disintegrate tho

[limpid vapor]

Science is Science, so it's fact my guy.

[wide glen]

I mean If it did exist it means it was early cause bone halflife or something??

[clever sable]

Do not trust dinofax, he is not a reliable source, a lot of his information is outdated or just straight up incorrect

[wide glen]

Dinofax on his way to confuse 11 year olds:

[limpid vapor]

I don't trust anyone in here, most Y'all are immature kids who watched dinosaur from Disney and think u are Palaeontologists

[clever sable]

Take his deinosuchus video for example, the estimates he listened for deinosuchus are just wrong, he said it was 35 feet and 5 tonnes

[tranquil quartz]

So u trust Dinofax who is literally the same as what you just listed only he’s even more in accurate

[clever sable]

Bruh, I get my information from actual reputable sources, https://www.deviantart.com/fadeno/art/Deinosuchus-hatcheri-multiview-skeletal-850628356 this is where I got my deinosuchus estimate, so no, I do not just say something with 0 scientific backing

[flat pond]

Lol what? I’ve watch Walking With Dinosaurs (1999), and Prehistoric Planet and they have more accurate information than whatever this Dinofax guy is. I rather trust an actual source and an actual scientist who researches this stuff than some guy on the internet that spews misinformation.

[limpid vapor]

accurate data that's outdated, misleading and Plain Incorrect half the time.

[clever sable]

Bruh, prehistoric planet came out literally last year

[tranquil quartz]

Stop fanboying over a man in a T.rex mask please and listen to what we are telling you

[light oxide]

And it got a sequel this year.

[flat pond]

Better than making stuff up. I rather be bitten by my Paleosuchus palpebrosus with no gloves on than hear nonsensical information.

[limpid vapor]

@clever sable @light oxide not even talking about prehistoric planet

[clever sable]

How do you know his info is up to date? Hm? Why are you just blindly trusting this guy, do your own research

[light oxide]

If ye was talking about Walking With Dinosaurs, FRED listed that and Prehistoric Planet to make a point.

[clever sable]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thecodontia.com/blog/the-largest-theropod-dinosaur-known-to-science&ved=2ahUKEwivtpWCvOv_AhWHFmIAHf5aCFcQFnoECA0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0RTMeEgmVyQGAocSUOxNyk this is not outdated, we actually do research beyond listening to bad YouTube shorts

What makes you think dinofax is the most reliable source?

[limpid vapor]

his, not only his, but mine and other people's research, comes from being in contacts with other Palaeontologists

[light oxide]

With that being that multiple scientists and whatnot went over the information they had at the end. Dinofax is just one person going over it -- this is why I usually go over estimates and whatnot with peeps here and other areas -- so that multiple eyes can review it.

[flat pond]

The Skeleton Crew are a much more reliable source than your Dinofax guy and they are actual paleontologists.

[limpid vapor]

Just because he's one person, doesn't mean he cannot produce good, accurate content.

[woeful falcon]

This sounds like trollbait or someone who doesn't know much. The moment Dinofax said "a new sauropod" I knew whatever I was about to listen to was crap

Bruhath isn't new, it was described before Argent was. The remains of Bruhath don't exist anymore, there's little resources about them and said resources are terrible

[clever sable]

Bro, I am literally sending you links to the research from the most prominent and reputable people in modern paleontology

[woeful falcon]

So bad that supposedly its been called into question if they were even real fossil sauropod bone

[clever sable]

Anyone who has worked with them would know dinofax are not reputable

[bitter oasis]

General reminder to please be respectful to other users, refer to our #rules

[clever sable]

Question: what are the current estimates for giganotosaurus? What are the current estimates for deinosuchus? Answer these

[woeful falcon]

The jurassic park pfp was all I needed Mr. Bary. Ur going to paleo prison

[bitter oasis]

If we cannot be civil on this topic, mutes will be handed out.

[light oxide]

Alderon Kangaroo alrea-- oop. Their messages just got deleted. Thanks, Alderon Kangaroo -- I was about to tell them that ye already said for peeps to be respectful to others.

[flat pond]

Anyways, what do you guys think of Prehistoric Kingdom’s Velociraptor?

https://youtu.be/ryPUsCig9qM

[tranquil quartz]

You do realise not all palaeontologists have ideas that are necessarily agreed with across all of palaeontology

[woeful falcon]

If you can't do the time don't do the crime friendo

Anyway, don't get your info solely from paleo content creators. Lot of the time you can get the same information they have out in the wild anyway if you know where to look. You'll know what they'll say in the vid before its even out

And the velo looks nice from what little I've seen of it

[clever sable]

I think they got muted, idk tho

[compact leaf]

it’s a pk design so it’s almost guaranteed to be nice lol, I love the vocalizations for it

[flat pond]

Makes me want to have a velo as a pet now and it would make my already caiman holding hands even fuller lol.

[light oxide]

That is a very good Velociraptor -- nice. And the sounds are good too. Seal of Approval.

[flat pond]

Oof lol

[clever sable]

I'm gonna put sarcosuchus with deinosuchus (sadly neither of those are in-game)

[light oxide]

Seems that JFD have been going at it with their animations archives: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbX0l-Ms04w

[tranquil quartz]

Its crazy how that video of Dinofaxs has literally told fasle information to over 150,000 people.

[clever sable]

Yeah

[frigid coral]

And people have the nerve to claim the guy is reputable just because they wear a dinosaur costume and put paleoart in the background

[woeful falcon]

That's not the worst. And it is a misconception about bruhath

Seen posts about it here for a while before the dinofax vid existed

[white matrix]

Dude's name is Dinofax too

Oh the irony

[clever sable]

Yeah, and he still says purussaurus was bigger than deinosuchus for some reason

[woeful falcon]

The one I dislike most is this one and people thinking it's legit. That's got 1.6mil under its belt
https://youtu.be/XcBoY_aEVj8

[white matrix]

Yeah this was trash lol

[frigid coral]

Oh the dude left

Anyway I like to imagine that hopefully Dinofax isn’t trying to be malicious, just misinformed and a bit stubborn when it comes to listening.

On the topic of those stupid ‘studies’, I hate those

[tranquil quartz]

Swear the Spinosaurus was literally a loon, the most overused bird sound ever. 😂

[clever sable]

Bro, is that the rex from saurian

[frigid coral]

They claimed they examine the animals exact skull with a bunch of paleontologists… then use multiple animals that don’t have a skull found

The guy doesn’t even credit paleoartists either

[woeful falcon]

Tis indeed a loon

[frigid coral]

A lot of their cited sources aren’t even actual studies from good sources, and some aren’t even about vocalizations at all

[clever sable]

That's one thing I can compliment dinofax for, he almost always credits the artist

[tranquil quartz]

On the topic of paleotubers is Ben G Thomas reliable?

[pastel tartan]

Alot of us want to be paleontologists meaning we actually try to learn about dinosaurs and we actually research them

[clever sable]

Maybe? Idk

No, I know the worst trend in Paleontology, it's these videos https://youtube.com/shorts/-i1g2_iT4To?feature=share

[cloud dagger]

The only paleotuber i follow is raptor chatter

[pastel tartan]

Ben seems more accurate than most other channels

[frigid coral]

I mainly dislike their videos because the Pinacosaurus vocalizations just sound terrible

[tranquil quartz]

Dear god the Spino vs Rex ones infuriate me

[pastel tartan]

anyone remember the kid who thinks spino beats rex in every way including weight

[frigid coral]

take one look through the videos sources and you’ll realize just how bad this ‘study’ is

[clever sable]

Red raptor writes, raptor chatter, Ben G Thomas, Rick raptor (kinda, he more just does Funny reviews), those are probably the more reputable Paleotubers from what I can tell

[tranquil quartz]

And Eons is alright

[frigid coral]

PBS Eons and Edge are all pretty good as well

[clever sable]

Oh yeah, I forgot edge

[pastel tartan]

Is Trey the explainer accurate?

[frigid coral]

A lot of their info is outdated due to the videos being old

[clever sable]

He's pretty good I think, although his videos are ancient

[frigid coral]

For its time, and generally, it’s decent, just fact check anything from there as it may be outdated

[pastel tartan]

I don’t think any channel should say anything they say about pre historic stuff is facts

[clever sable]

Deino 100%

[wide glen]

Purru is pretty chunky, but deino I feel has a advantage cause I know nothing about purru and deino is annoying ingame

[pastel tartan]

Deino

[clever sable]

That's like having an American alligator and a saltwater crocodile fight

[frigid coral]

Depends on the estimates and species (if deino wasn’t lumped together)

[white matrix]

Tbf it depends on skill level lol

[clever sable]

With the current estimates deino is definitely winning

[clever sable]

Also, only 1 R in purussaurus

[wide glen]

Prior extinctions theri, beipi, and jianchango

1-10 on accuracy

[white matrix]

These type of videos so awful bro

[bitter oasis]

While i understand how the discussion got to this point lets please keep the chat on topic, thank you!

[frigid coral]

thoughts on this skeletal boom

shortie

[nova socket]

But look at that tail tho, fabulous.

[heady thunder]

Such a goofy critter

[nova socket]

Apple bottom jeans not gonna make that any more fabulous. Boots with the fur might make irritator a bit higher on my favorite list though.

[halcyon cliff]

Wasn’t it bigger?

[frigid coral]

I dunno

That’s why I’m asking

[little mauve]

Looks like they used lower end estimates but either way, it was on the smaller side for spinosauridae

[stoic tinsel]

oh i forgot they actually used the adult size projections for beipiaosaurus

[sudden wind]

As far as I look at it, maybe 9 because how much those were feathered is unknown.

[sudden wind]

IT'S FRICKING AMAZING I LOVE IT

[tranquil quartz]

God that crest rising when it calls is cool

[warm sedge]

i freaking love it!

[light osprey]

It’s released?

[covert lintel]

90% of PK's designs are pure gold, i'm glad to see that trend continuing with their velociraptor!

[tulip dove]

Nah

[light osprey]

Darn

[tulip dove]

But we know that it will come in july

[white matrix]

Dilophosaurus is probably my favorite PK design tbh

[tough parcel]

Maaaybe Eocarcharia, gimme a sec

[light osprey]

Doesn’t seem like a sensible matchup

[tough parcel]

Yarp, definitely Eocarcharia lol

(This is considering Qianzhousaurus is close to an adult Alioramus size)

Ngl me neither lmao, I thought it was a bit smaller

[tranquil quartz]

Maybe it would fare better against another carchardontosaurid like Concavenator or Altispinax

[white matrix]

I made the skeletal, and you don’t use estimates to make a skeletal, the skeletal is it’s own estimate, 99% of the time you don’t use pre-established sizes to make a skeletal

[tranquil quartz]

Oh really, I thought Concav and Alio were around relatively the same size?

[light osprey]

Similar in size to the holotype

[woeful falcon]

talking speculative adult Alioramus, using Qianzhousaurus as a basis for a projected size

[light osprey]

Idk how heavy either of them are

[woeful falcon]

neither do I outside of saying probably bigger

Alioramins are weirdos though. Quite unlike other tyrannosaurs, at least superficially.

[clever sable]

So uh, what torvosaurus species is bigger?

[white matrix]

Gurneyi bigger on average, but Tanneri has the biggest specimens iirc

[tough parcel]

That's what I said 😭 (in another chat)

[clever sable]

Hey, you gotta get the largest amount of feedback, you can't only listen to what 1 person is saying

[stiff osprey]

There are some likely gurneyi specimens that are the same size as the biggest tanneri, but they're like. Half a caudal vertebra, a tooth and a footprint

[woeful falcon]

that's all I need

[tough parcel]

I'll make my own mega-gurneyi from half a caudal vert, a tooth, and a footprint

[woeful falcon]

some sugar spice and everything nice

[tough parcel]

Possibly

[white matrix]

Hear me out..alectro is alioramus

[clever sable]

Deinosuchus moment

[woeful falcon]

they lived like 20 million years apart

[clever sable]

Also uh, is it official that riograndensis has been synonymised with hatcheri?

[ocean brook]

How big is maip compared to, let’s say carno?

[clever sable]

Idk but deinosuchus is bigger (imo Maip is incredibly overrated)

[novel atlas]

https://vxtwitter.com/Syn_JFD/status/1674483132496486404?t=SVatNIcClIIifu10I82fwQ&s=19

[stoic tinsel]

ah good ol SDSM 12047, 21 years old and only 10.4 meters and 6.6 tonnes

[stoic tinsel]

yes

only schwimmeri and hatcheri are valid iirc

[pearl briar]

YOOOO MIRAGE?!?!?

[frigid coral]

power puff torvosaurs

[pearl briar]

oh...
mosa is smoler than meg
ark... is lyin to me

[white matrix]

Ark lied about many things

[woeful falcon]

most things smaller than meg

as far as the ocean goes, I think the only animals even comparable are other whales

[stoic tinsel]

but, gurneyi is already the same size as tanneri..

[clever sable]

How much material do we have of schwimmeri?

[stoic tinsel]

a skull and i think some post cranial material iirc

[clever sable]

So what's the general consensus on the aquatic lurdusaurus theory?

[novel atlas]

Funnily enough, Meg might be smaller than we first thought

[stoic tinsel]

Not supported anymore

[light osprey]

Not too shabby on hoffmanni’s part

[pastel tartan]

Was there any vulture type pterosaurs

[white matrix]

Who would win in a fight sperm whale or mosa

[paper maple]

Mosa

[frigid coral]

sperm whale?

[ancient crystal]

Sperm whale

[clever sable]

Sperm whale probably, the sperm whale is up to 70 tonnes iirc

[stiff osprey]

A bull sperm whale would beat a mosa, they can scare off a whole orca pod. Female sperm whales are several times smaller and would probably lose

[fair jewel]

Fr fr

[light osprey]

Which Mosa 😳

[white matrix]

Irl not ark

[light osprey]

Well it doesn’t really matter, all the species are smaller than a Sperm Whale anyway

[fair jewel]

The only way a mosa could win is if it was jurassic world

[woeful falcon]

females got pod perks

[frigid coral]

ignore the arms please I’m still tryna learn

How is this guy accuracy wise besides the arms? Based off the skeletal posted with it, including pose. (This will fully be redone later, so I’m able to make large adjustments)

[pearl briar]

ru pronating her arms???

[frigid coral]

nah, again I’m tryna figure out the feathering and hands itself still, please ignore em 😭

the arms are severely screwed up because i used 0 reference

• arms are outstretched a bit so it’s easier to see the patterns

[light osprey]

The feathers on the arm should get progressively smaller when you get to the humerus

[frigid coral]

Do you have a reference for the arms? Everything I’m finding either looks completely different from another reference or doesn’t show it clearly

wait I just figured it out I think

[clever sable]

Are there any estimates for S. hartti?

[light osprey]

Maybe this is a good visualisation?

[frigid coral]

I’ll try that

Helped a hell ton! Thanks!

[small temple]

I also recommend looking at some general bird wing anatomy for the feathers specifically!

[clever sable]

@stiff osprey so uh, do you know how fast acrocanthosaurus was? I heard it's 22 kmh but that seems far too slow

[compact leaf]

someone in here has a table with estimates from larramendis formula but I can’t seem to find it

that seems slow to me too though

[little mauve]

This is from Larramendi's Theropod book, dunno if there are more recent applications of his formula

27.7 km/h is the listed speed here, screenshot cut off column labels

[clever sable]

Is the S. hartti specimen from an adult?

[clever sable]

Eocarch was sarco food fr fr

Anyways, what are the estimates for lurdusaurus?

[woeful falcon]

Usually a result from a search engine isn't reliable. But iirc finding something reliable for lurdu is a challenge generally, relying on having a good recon

[stiff osprey]

Surprisingly bing is correct on this one, although only because 2.5-5.5 t is such a massive range you would struggle to be wrong

[woeful falcon]

I'd say Lurdu is somewhere between 1 and 1 million tonnes if I were a betting man

[clever sable]

So uh, are there any size estimates for S. hartti?

[stiff osprey]

somewhere between S.imperator size and way, wayyy smaller

[clever sable]

Do you think that 3 tonnes is a reasonable estimate or is that far too small?

It's Steve Irwin, it's supposed to look like he's throwing food to crocs

Oh definitely

[pearl briar]

help which is a crocodile, caiman, & alligator???

[elfin pulsar]

Ik bottom one is gator

I wanna say top is croc and middle is caiman

[stiff osprey]

correct

[pastel tartan]

Tops croc middle caiman bottom gator

[remote cairn]

Top is croc, mid is caiman and bottom is gator

Crocs have teeth that stick outta their jaws and a V shaped snout while Gators have teeth that stay inside and a very U/C shaped snout (theyre thicker) and caimans are like a bit of both

[tranquil quartz]

You can tell the difference betweeen a gator and a croc by their snouts and jaws. Gators have quite thick ones, crocs have long and slim ones

[kind narwhal]

How accurate is this austrolovenator, I like the design

[tranquil quartz]

I mean Idk really know much about Austro but I do recognise that model from JWE so I would be cautious as that game does not have many accurate models at all.

[fallow plank]

"jwe deinonychus is every accurate"

[elfin pulsar]

Is that an actual model from jwe?

[white matrix]

Yes

Conc would be awesome to have in jwe tbh

[elfin pulsar]

Why is it so fleshy

[pearl briar]

hell creek iconic faunas size comparison by me
accurate? srry if i messed up
(all dinos model is by @tough parcel )

[tranquil quartz]

It’s probably accurate if its made by falcon

[heady thunder]

Where edmont tho?

[tranquil quartz]

Probably they just forgot to include it.

[eager skiff]

Add edmont on this fr

Whoops, thats shant😭

[clever sable]

Top is crocodile bottom is gator middle is caiman

[pearl briar]

edmontosaurus?
do kids rlly know them
i don't think so, afaik kids just know rex, trike, & anky iirc
not sure if i've ever met a 6-10 yrs old that knew edmonto tho

[heady thunder]

If its a popularity contest, remove anky and put stego and brachi

[pearl briar]

ahh yes
1 cretaceous dino & 2 jurassic dino
how fair 😀

[heady thunder]

I meant it in general popularity, a lot of people dont even know that dinosaurs didnt all live at the same time.

[pearl briar]

oh yeah lol
mb

[compact leaf]

tbh you could probably even replace brachi with apato or bronto and more people would know it

[tranquil quartz]

Not Apato, probably Bronto though. I feel like less people know Apato than Brachi

[heady thunder]

Apato or Brachi, hmmmm, tough to guess which is the more popular one.

[clever sable]

Brachi is super popular

[heady thunder]

Brachi is like, a GOAT and has remained as such since JP1.

[compact leaf]

it depends on the audience too, with younger people it probably goes to brachi, with older people bronto

[clever sable]

Brontosaurus moment

[heady thunder]

Bronto coming back was a mega W.

[clever sable]

Ark predicted it iirc (kinda)

[spring cave]

i linked my discord to get the backer role but i havent got it?

[tranquil quartz]

#path-of-titans and then ask a mod for help

[woeful falcon]

In a way that makes sense. I don't think you guys have alligators down there, as in from the genus Alligator. So you wouldn't really have or need a word that distinguishes them

The alligator has the broadest snout and the caiman has the sharp, horn-like brow. That's how to tell them apart in that image

[clever sable]

Well uhm ackchually the broad snouted caiman has the broadest about (at least I think)

[woeful falcon]

Well ya see, that's not a broad snouted caiman

[heady thunder]

The broad snouted caiman has a broad snout.

[woeful falcon]

very appropriately named

Its like the puru of the modern world, but not gigantic

[heady thunder]

Time to selectively breed them to creat the Giant Broad Snouted caiman

[covert lintel]

considering puru was literally a giant caiman, that could work. the real question is, is there anyone in the world who has both the facilities to do it ethically, and the willpower to commit to such a long experiment?

[astral kelp]

Agreed!

[heady thunder]

We can take the short route and inject a big caiman with HGH

[dusky galleon]

I just finished my first read of Dune last night and realized how cool it would be to make every character a dinosaur from the Negmet formation in Mongolia.

Dune takes place on a desert planet.

[sudden wind]

The general feathering is oof as well as the underbite. The earhole placement isn't right, the nasal too. The eyes should be slighty covered by a ridge like in eagles and such.

[frigid coral]

There is no earhole on the drawing, and the underbite has been fixed, though I’ll correct the rest. Could you explain what about the feathering is wrong? It’s kind of difficult when the only description is “is a oof”

I tried to follow the skeletal very closely, so an actual description of what’s wrong is always helpful. Mind you some things may be due to the sketchiness of the lineart

[sudden wind]

Wings only start at the ulna and radius, the humerus does not have large flight feathers on it. The hand bears the primaries, while the forearm bears the secondaries. You also forgot the propatagium. The tailfan also seems weird based on soft tissue remains but I guess it can be subjective for each species. I however think that it shouldn't begin at the base of the tail.

[frigid coral]

I asked to ignore the arms because it was again a work in progress and I recently figured it out, but I highly appreciate all the references! I’ve been looking for something like this. I’ll update it accordingly, thanks!

Most of this was already fixed on the updated version thanks to critique on other servers and here, but I’ll change what I hadn’t

[dusky galleon]

What was the largest Sauropod?

[compact leaf]

by weight (so what we would class as largest anyway) argentinosaurus

[light osprey]

proper contour feathers appear in eumaniraptora right?

[little mauve]

I thought it was Pennaraptora but I'm not sure

[light osprey]

Oh ok so it includes Oviraptors and Scansoriopterygids

[clever sable]

Did torvosaurus and saurophagonax meet?

@light osprey you seem to know stuff

[tranquil quartz]

Iirc Sauro was after Torvos time

[clever sable]

Are there any other large theropods saurophagonax would have met?

[tranquil quartz]

Probably not Sauro was after Cerato, Allo and Torvo. Maybe forgetting a few

[little mauve]

Ceratosaurus was likely still kicking around

[tranquil quartz]

Wait nvm forgot about that. I knew Cera didn’t go extinct by Sauro time. If im right Saurophaganax only became the behemoth it was due to the local Torvo population going extinct?

[tranquil quartz]

Allo and Torvo Sauro did not meet. It probably encountered Cerato though and they both go extinct at points during the Cretaceous iirc.

[little mauve]

That may have been a part of it (Torvo going extinct), Morrison sauropods were getting larger at the same time so it could also have been an arms race

[tranquil quartz]

Did Sauro encounter Stokesosaurus as well? Just tryna think of other theropods it lived alongside.

[little mauve]

It would probably coexist with some type of tyrannosauroid similar to Stokesosaurus if not the same genus, tyrannosauroids would only become more established over time

[light osprey]

I think their temporal range overlaps a bit, but the deposits were they may have overlapped in time could’ve been far away from each other.

Not to mention, Torvosaurus was going extinct when Saurophaganax begins to appear.

[sudden wind]

Torvo was already extinct when Sauro kicked around, which makes sense from an ecological stand point.

[clever sable]

Any guesses to what this thing is? It's supposedly something sauro met and is a similar size to sauro, my guess is torvo but they didn't meet

[tranquil quartz]

I mean here is a photo of Torvos head in comparison. In my opinion the jaws look kinda similar?

[clever sable]

Yeah it looks like a torvo but they didn't meet

[tranquil quartz]

Who created the model? They may just be mistaken.

[clever sable]

Idk, the model is for primeval horizon though, they wanna keep the creature a secret though

[woeful falcon]

They're not very good at keeping it secret

[tranquil quartz]

Yeah my guess is Torvosaurus, the developers are probably just confused at the part where they say its something Sauro encountered. Torvo went extinct before Sauro.

[woeful falcon]

Torvo's the only Megalosaurid there that I know of in Morrison and

Well look at it. It's supposed to be Torvo

[tranquil quartz]

Yeah, I mean its a common misconception that Sauro and Torvo co-existed similar to the idea that Allo and Sauro lived together as well. So the Devs probably just said it was something Sauro encountered off this.

[remote cairn]

Found out today that the Amargasaurus may have had a skin sail

[compact leaf]

not may have, the latest paper does point to the spines supporting a sail and not being exposed

[remote cairn]

I just saod may as in maybe that gets disproven 50 years down the line somehow tho it seems very unlikely

I do wanna give some art a go for this now tho, the amargasaurus has always been such a favorite of mine

[prisma hedge]

@severe mural

[severe mural]

?

[light oxide]

Hmm, I got a question for ye all:

How fast could Thalassodromeus run? I know that its leg structures (and that of other similar thalassodrominaes and azhdarcids) is similar to a vampire bat's, just longer and below the body.

[placid sigil]

Ok, this needs to be more well known, the longisquama

[high burrow]

What would a accurate spino really look like?

[clever sable]

Here are some I think

[next quail]

has anyone heard about the dino chicken

[clever sable]

Chickens are dinosaurs

[woeful falcon]

That wasn't jack horner's thing that was a book. Chickenosaurus was horner's thing

[viscid surge]

2 minutes later they’re retrosaurus

[white matrix]

Jack is still on the chickenosaurus project that or it's been scrapped and i didn't know that or it lost traction trying to screw with evolution. (At least a few have a died iirc)

[remote cairn]

I swear ive seen more accurate spino art than i have innaccurate art

[pearl briar]

yankee with no brim
poops this with diarrhea sound

[elder kettle]

Imma predict that devs are gonna follow this Achillobator model. My hypothesis

[heady thunder]

If were lucky it will have some cool crests like deinon

[viscid surge]

Deinon crests are one the reasons its so ugly in my eyes tbh

[steady rock]

hi

[elder kettle]

I want the Achillobator so bad😭

[heady thunder]

Its not ugly, its got a fcking mohawk, dope as hell.

[elder kettle]

Fax

[elder kettle]

I’d prefer featherd raptors over naked any day

[viscid surge]

Ehh i prefer laten’s design

[elder kettle]

Lat looks like a mad deformed chicken

[heady thunder]

Laten is also very cool, but deinons crests are neat.

[viscid surge]

So does deinony 💀

[heady thunder]

Nah defense laten looks like an eagle, dope as fck.

[heady thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/spartans-livesey-walking-meme-why-not-gif-26546363

[pearl briar]

damn... nice res u got there

guys ik he isn't reliable
but is this accurate?
https://youtube.com/shorts/IoTN-Xu0F-U?feature=share

[heady thunder]

Its pretty accurate, the only innacurate thing is that Big Al was a female iirc

[still prairie]

So WWD lied to me?

[tranquil quartz]

I mean its pretty hard to mess a video on Big Al up. She’s one of the most studied dinosaurs in the world. I’d say it’s fairly accurate for a video from DinoFax

[magic monolith]

i think they mean he himself and other videos arent reliable,not this one specificaly maybe

[tranquil quartz]

Yeah I’m aware he isn’t reliable. Most of his videos aren’t such as his recent Bruht one. But angy literally asked if that video was accurate.

[spice hollow]

hi guys

whats ur guyss fav dinosaur for me its terrodactyl

[tranquil quartz]

The Woolly Mammoth

[spice hollow]

thats not a dinosaur ??? its a species of elephant

[tranquil quartz]

Neither is Pterodactyl. Pterodactyl isn’t even a valid species. Pterodactylus is however.

[spice hollow]

its a type of flying dinosaur you should search it up

[tranquil quartz]

No its a Pterosaur, Pterosaurs aren’t in Dinosauria.

[atomic hawk]

Pterodactyl isnt a thing although Pterodactylus is but yeah they are flying reptiles, live along side dinosaurs but weren’t one themselves

[spice hollow]

actually pterosaurs are a type of basal spinosaur so you are being dumb

[tranquil quartz]

[spice hollow]

so are dinosaurs like sarcosuchus deinosuchus and eunotosaurus they are all in spinosauridae

[tiny holly]

Reminder not to troll in this channel :)

[spice hollow]

sorry ma boy

[pearl briar]

acumalaka 🤣🤣🤣
brutally poops spinosaurus with crazy diarrhea sound

[woeful falcon]

You're doing a dino alphabet right? Are you also like, doing every dinosaur per starting letter

[woeful falcon]

What I meant was "doing them all in alphabetical order" but was dumb and didn't know how to say it lol

[light oxide]

#path-of-titans I would assume.

[woeful falcon]

I even took a minute asking myself "how do I word this"

[next quail]

yes

[astral kelp]

Does anyone have a good daeodon skeletal?

[light oxide]

I answered my own question about how fast a Thalassodromeus can run -- JFD already did it:

Around 21 km/h.

Here: https://twitter.com/Syn_JFD/status/1502634632780656647?t=dsd1KlhWhjPrYKof2iuY2A&s=19

Of course, it is running not in a fashion a vampire bat would, which is what I was honestly expecting, since their flight and land movement patterns is kind of like convergent evolution.

Here's how a vampire bat runs:

[light osprey]

Makes sense

[stiff osprey]

I would note that pterosaur speed estimates are in no way reliable since there is nothing alive with anything close to their anatomy (vampire bats have sprawled forelimbs and backwards rotated feet, so they cannot run like a pterosaur does)

[light osprey]

So there’s no real way to calculate their speed without like a proper model simulation?

[heady thunder]

Yeah basically

[light oxide]

I see

[light oxide]

I'm honestly surprised no one has yet.

[light osprey]

Then let’s do one 🥱

[heady thunder]

Ill just take the random dino website speed

[elder kettle]

What y’all think the mystery Dino could be?

What is this channel for?

Ahhh

I didn’t know what it stood for

[frail robin]

I just saw this and EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[tranquil quartz]

Whats the leading theory on how the sail formed on a baby Spinosaurus. Was it formed in the development of the Spinosaur in the egg, or did it develop as the Spinosaur grew?

[heady thunder]

Is there even a theory about that?

[covert lintel]

i don't know if there's currently any scientific consensus on this; afaik we don't have any preserved spines from hatchlings (now that i think about it, i'm not sure if there's any known material from spino hatchlings), or any preserved eggs, so there's a lot of unknowns.
imo it's more likely it grew after it hatched, since a fully-formed sail would take up a lot of space in the egg (and while the function of the sail is disputed, it's possible that it's a very expensive display structure, which if true would make it useless for juveniles), but since we lack a lot of information here, it's not super clear. maybe they had larger eggs to fit all that extra spine and the yolk to help build it in there, idk

[stiff osprey]

I'm certain that the sail was not present or extremely reduced on hatchlings. Here's a green basilisk, the adult of which has sails similar to Spino's

[white matrix]

It looks like it running like a athelete preparing for long jump

[fallow citrus]

Could Apatosaurus actually use its neck for combat or is that just speculation

[frigid coral]

Just speculation, but very possible speculation at that

[fallow citrus]

hmmmm interesting

[stoic tinsel]

yeah sauropods necks are very strong so its possible for them to use them as weapons

[compact leaf]

especially in a heavily built sauropod like apatosaurus

[light osprey]

Anyone know how large the Antarctic Hadrosaur tooth is, and how it compares to other Saurolophines?

[little mauve]

Tooth crown is 20mm in height, said to be similar to Edmontosaurus

[light osprey]

What would a correlative length be for an Edmontosaurini with a tooth that size?

[little mauve]

Here's dentition from E. regalis CMN 2289, looks like the dental battery tooth crowns vary between 1-3 cm. So these are a comparable size to the Antarctic hadrosaur. Impossible to scale based off one tooth though I'm just ballparking here

[iron halo]

Don’t we have a hatchling Spinosaurus toe or something

Or am I misremembering

[light osprey]

I see

Is CMN 2289 mature?

[little mauve]

Yes

[clever sable]

So is beishanlong thought to have been aquatic like deinocheirus?

[chilly knot]

You mean semi aquatic swamp dwelling

[clever sable]

Yeah

[chilly knot]

Difficult to say, isn't beishan just an arm

[clever sable]

It doesn't look very much like deinocheirus to me but idk

Not much material to make that judgement