paleontology

[ocean brook]

Nah, mostly consistent of sauropods and stegosaurs

[woeful falcon]

Did hadrosaurs even exist yet

[compact leaf]

hadrosaurs may not have existed yet but iguanodontids were around

definitely nothing too large though, the ornithopods were pretty much all on the smaller end at that point still

[elfin pulsar]

Ah, gotcha, thanks yall

[bright veldt]

Hadrosaurs didn't appear till the late cretaceous

[trim crag]

There have been some individual leopards known as hyena killers, and there is plenty of proof to show they can kill animals that would normally rip them to shreds such as lycaons or spotted hyenas

Leopards are absolute crackheads, pretty sure there isn't an animal in their range they haven't killed besides elephants and brown or sloth bears (yes, there are reports of them taking sun bears and giant pandas)

[heady thunder]

Wait, that means that leopards in Asia have killed Indian Rhinos?

[trim crag]

Oh lmao forgot about that, also ig to specify I should have mentioned that I was talking about babies and adults. Don't think there's anything on leopards taking Indian rhino calves but there is for white rhino calves

[heady thunder]

Yeah leopards are impressive, seeing them take an antelope twice their weight 3m up a tree will never fail to be impressive.

[bright veldt]

Painted Wolves isn't much of a surprise. It's kind of like wolves and puma, where normally the cat is the one running away but if caught individually it's not a contest. Big males do rarely kill hyenas too.

[trim crag]

Yeah, their strength despite being such small cats and their adaptability is the reason they're my favorite animals, their coat is pretty too but that doesn't play much into it for me

I do have proof of African leopards killing an adult of basically every animal in their range except for elephants, rhinos, hippos, crocodiles, buffalo, hippotragines (Sable and Roan antelope) and lions. Really goes to show their versatility, they can eat from small critters like springhares or guinea fowl but if they want they can take on bull gnu, kudu and eland or zebras

[heady thunder]

You probably forgot adult tigers and crocs.

[trim crag]

I did include crocs but I did specify African leopards. If you meant the tigers in Tiger Canyon in South Africa there are no leopards there, the only other carnivorans are cheetahs, aardwolves, and i think black backed jackals and bat eared foxes

[heady thunder]

Oh I meant it overall, so thatd include all the asian leopards which overlap.
And, theres tigers in south africa?

[trim crag]

Yeah, there's a reserve in the Karoo region of South Africa where they put tigers to help keep their wild populations healthy. There are a lot of problems with it though, the main one being they plan to reintroduce lions which will definitely outcompete the tigers due to the lack of forest, not to mention why not just put that money into tiger conservation in Asia

[heady thunder]

Yeah, weird, they should have just put in lions in the first place and made some reserves for tigers in asia, maybe in Sumatra or Siberia.

[trim crag]

Agreed, the whole thing was just a big experiment to prove that tigers could adapt to life in Africa. Like of course they will if there's nothing competing with them, they rarely even stray into the grasslands in Asia despite having extremely little competition there, they prefer the forests

[heady thunder]

Id assume they havent had a problem with the hunting and living conditions there.

[trim crag]

Yeah they haven't, not yet anyways. Pretty sure all of the tiger deaths there were due to natural causes such as complications with age or disputes with other individuals

[heady thunder]

Id like to see more efforts for the asian lions, since those guys are very low in population numbers.

[trim crag]

I haven't been keeping up on their conservation but last I heard some disease keeps wiping them out and making conservation harder

[heady thunder]

Yeah sadly, seeing their current range compared to the old one is depressing.

[pearl briar]

so campto aren't a hadrosaur but a smth?

[bright veldt]

Iguanodont

[pearl briar]

iguanodon't?

so related to iggy?

[bright veldt]

I guess "Iguanodontian" is the better term. Most ornithopods are iguanodontians.

[pearl briar]

i see
and this is my question
the main differences between hadrosaurs & iguanodont?
both look "Same to Me"

[bright veldt]

Hadrosaurs are also iguanodontians. It's basically like how tyrannosaurs are coelurosaurs. Hadrosaurs are a specific group of it. So are iguanodontids, rhadbodonts, and more primitive members like campto.

[pearl briar]

i see then
thx scan 👍

[gritty orchid]

R

[slim ridge]

Mammal inter-predator predation is pretty fierce, especially where meso-predators are concerned.
Coyote diet will consist of mostly housecats in some areas.
Fishers will readily take lynx, and foxes/other canids and smaller species of hyena will hunt smaller mustelids.
Leopards and other animals will often hunt the smaller African Felids etc.

[novel atlas]

https://twitter.com/NarwhalerN/status/1654448594240380929?t=5FGMJouHUhJQTjX0Mz9_xw&s=19

Narwhaler (COMMS OPEN) (@NarwhalerN)

My final assessment on protocetid reconstructions

Likes

325

Twitter · May 5, 2023, 11:30 AM

[light osprey]

Shouldn’t the hind limbs be more defined?

[tough parcel]

Yes, yes they should be

[light osprey]

I thought so

[west drum]

STEGOROUS

[cinder jewel]

@strong river just to illustrate what was being discussed in main char

[strong river]

Ok but for larger flying reptiles I'd imagine it's quite different. They've got such a short body compared to something like Hatz or Quetz.

[heady thunder]

Its the same, just needs more space.

[tough parcel]

No, it's the same take-off mechanic- ^

[jagged trellis]

i mean hatz and quetz are the largest flying animals, it is a similar system just needs more run way

[strong river]

Regardless, very cool

[heady thunder]

But lets forget the trivial stuff, the important question is, could it take off and fly with an average human on its back.

[stoic tinsel]

No

[glad carbon]

What about a below average human and off of high elevation

[wind urchin]

Maybe

[glad carbon]

SHORT SCRAWNY PEOPLE FOR THE WIN 🎊😆😆🎉

[cinder jewel]

Falling with style? Yeah maybe

[glad carbon]

LOL!! With its wing span we might glide forwards a little bit and crash land to my demise but hey it’ll be fun

[light osprey]

No pterosaur could carry the weight of a human on its back.

[glad carbon]

Not flying obviously, I mean like gliding. And I’m under avg human weight. Also they’re like what giraffe sized I think they’d be fine 🙄

[light osprey]

Giraffe’s are significantly more heavily built than the largest Azdarchids

[tough parcel]

If we're talking adults, it'd have to be a small woman or very small guy (considering women are usually on the smaller side)

[glad carbon]

Ik. But hypothetically if me and a hatz were at the top of a mountain and I jumped on its back we could glide around before crash landing.
And I’m a small woman, Like 105 pounds on a good day.

[heady thunder]

Maybe a gigachad hatz could pull it off.

[light osprey]

105 lbs is very light.

[glad carbon]

Yes 👍🏾

[tough parcel]

I could see a small woman riding a Hatzeg

[glad carbon]

Hatz could prolly pick me up n fly away how come I can’t ride it 🗿

[jagged trellis]

maybe, small person tho they could seeing the whole weight thing

[heady thunder]

Id say, a 800 pound quetz could probably take a 100 pound person, maybe a 140 with a lot of struggle.

[glad carbon]

Yay!
I’d have to come up with a saddle design tho that things head is humongous. Might end up having to hold on to its neck so I don’t get in the way of the wings, and idk if bros neck is strong enuff for that 💀

[glad carbon]

800 POUNDS OH MY GAWD?

[heady thunder]

Yeah

[amber dune]

The picture makes me glad they extinct ain’t no way you running or hiding from that

[glad carbon]

Ouch that beak looks sharp imagine getting pecked with that. I doubt they did much pecking tho

[tough parcel]

They didn't, bad and weak skull combined with funky neck means no strong pecks

[amber dune]

Maybe they penetrate small prey?

[glad carbon]

They probably just picked them up.
If they can’t peck then idk what kinda attacks they’d have in game. They’d probably make them peck regardless. Not like their bite would do too much. Lol imagine if they give them a kick instead of a tail attack

[amber dune]

You think there’s any chance they could’ve threw some prey around for brunt force trauma or just ate everything alive?

[tough parcel]

Considering most birds today eat their prey alive, I'm gonna say the latter

[glad carbon]

Meh. If it’s small enough to where they can throw it in their mouth they probably swallowed it whole.
If they did end up pecking oh my gawd that’s piercing a lot

[amber dune]

Damn horrible way to die either way then

[glad carbon]

Lol yeah. Saw video of a seagull swallowing a whole hot dog so I’m pretty sure hatz w do something similar

[amber dune]

Seagulls have zero chill fr

[glad carbon]

😭

[rose thorn]

Says you
Hatz’s neck vertebrae at the very least are stress resistant as hell

[tough parcel]

Yes says me because I hate pterosaurs!!!

Skimming through the paper, it's mainly saying "Hatzegopteryx is robust and was likely a large prey predator while other azhdarchids (namely Arambourgiana and Quetzalcoatlus) had a bit of a weaker neck"

The first is neck type, since some taxa had relatively short (though perhaps not shorter than expected for other pterodactyloids), robust necks (such as Hatzegopteryx; R2395), and others had much longer, more gracile and mechanically weaker necks (e.g., Quetzalcoatlus sp., Arambourgiania). The second is cranial morphotype: this also comprises robust forms, with relatively short skulls and proportionally broad jaws (e.g., the possible azhdarchid Bakonydraco; Javelina Formation specimen TMM 42489-2), and gracile forms with elongate rostra and slender jaws (Quetzalcoatlus sp.; Zhejiangopterus; Alanqa).

[amber dune]

So does that make it top heavy then?

[tough parcel]

Yes, but not ridiculously unbalanced

[restive mantle]

Tbh you might have to lay on it and have handle bars to hang on

[trim crag]

i've heard that thing on fishers taking lynx but the only thing i've seen of it is some article claiming that they follow lynx in snowstorms, haven't actually seen any proof of it but i dont doubt it

[glad carbon]

Lol like a hang glider. It w be fun regardless. Till we crash of course

[heady thunder]

What are fishers?

[trim crag]

a large species of Marten

[woeful falcon]

Who's Marten

[novel atlas]

https://twitter.com/NarwhalerN/status/1654459224678604800?t=HHjiH94orVdqRJjWm1w6Qw&s=19

Narwhaler (COMMS OPEN) (@NarwhalerN)

Corrected the hind legs a bit cuz the digits were a bit shorter :d

Twitter · May 5, 2023, 12:13 PM

[heady thunder]

Is that a mustelid thingy?

[trim crag]

Yes, martens are mustelids along with badgers, ratel, weasels, otters, ferrets, mink and wolverines

[glad gorge]

does anybody have any papers on radiodonts

[dull lodge]

I wonder how much power would be behind hatz peck

[bright veldt]

Azdarchid beaks were not built to stab in the same way as herons and storks, which they artificially resemble. While they could definitely pierce through smaller prey (IE humans and similar sized prey in their habitat), they probably couldn't to large animals without the risk of injuring themselves.

[dull lodge]

Do you know where I could read more about this

[ocean brook]

PP2 majungasaurines (:

[covert lintel]

THE SILLIES

[ocean brook]

Xiphactinus

[bright veldt]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/512506314631675924/1104149562945441893/IMG_7187.png

[woeful falcon]

Save some for the release gob damn

Might request spoilerinos on this stuffs

[summer moss]

i can't afford pot or apple tv + 🗿

[woeful falcon]

Free trial my friend

[summer moss]

my father won't let me take it don't try to understand he is arab

[faint shard]

Majunga looks like he has a lil party hat on

[bright veldt]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/512506314631675924/1104150208390115448/16AAB902-4845-4661-88D1-AA84A3A9479F.jpg

[deft sigil]

A reminder to please view pinned messages for appropriate paleo-chat topics. We recommend all off-topic conversations for paleo-chat be directed to DM's, the appropriate channel or another server entirely. This channel is for educational purposes; for the discussion of past and present paleontological discoveries, scientific news, and depictions of prehistoric creatures in media in relation to paleontology.

[bright veldt]

"This channel is for educational purposes; for the discussion of past and present paleontological discoveries, scientific news, and depictions of prehistoric creatures in media in relation to paleontology." Normally I'd agree in the case of it being unrelated dinosaur media, in literally any other circumstance I would agree, but Prehistoric Planet is as paleontological as a documentary series gets. It has the most accurate and state of the art dinosaurs ever seen in film so far and is created and supported by paleontologists who very much engage with the community over its content and relevance in paleontology. If this isn't "paleo-chat", I don't know what is. I really don't understand why you need to dismantle perfectly civil and on-topic conversation purely because it deviates .1 inches away from what YOU deem as on-topic rather than what....common sense usually dictates.

[honest wave]

I would argue that this is the case

[deft sigil]

Discussing the Paleontology behind Prehistoric Planet is just fine. Discussing Apple TV+ free trials however is not relevant to this channel.
Just because the channel was warned as a whole, does not mean the warning was directed to you.
Was just a general reminder for the channel.

[ocean brook]

That was mentioned once but ok

Anyways, back to Prehistoric Planet

[bright veldt]

Apologies. Lack of context n' all.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/512506314631675924/1104151502420967464/Prehistoric_Planet_Photo_020401.jpg.photo_modal_show_home_large.jpg

Lovely hesperornis, although I thought they were not Maastrichtian? Same with Xiphactinus but I'm not sure.

[heady thunder]

Are these leaks or stuff they have prereleased?

[ocean brook]

Prereleases stuff

[bright veldt]

Proper look at the austroraptor. Looked oddly troodontid at first but I guess it was the angle. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/512506314631675924/1104154905477914747/Prehistoric_Planet_Photo_020301.png

[feral arrow]

This has probably been talked about a lot here but what do y'all think about T-Rex being 70% bigger

[ancient crystal]

Its just a hypothetical, not a reality

[heady thunder]

70%, so like, 15 tons? Kinda big

[bright veldt]

Complete nonsense. Purely hypothetical that isn't backed by any actual data.

[covert lintel]

70% seems like a bit of a reach given the already quite wide range of known sizes for adult tyrannosaurus

[somber tartan]

I ain’t gonna lie, I didn’t like how austro looked for a bit the first time we saw it, but it looks better in this pic, it’s feathers kinda looked like play-doh near the face

[feral arrow]

I think 70% bigger is a bit of a stretch but I do think T-Rex would grow bigger but not by 70%

[covert lintel]

oh yeah, absolutely - the largest specimen we have is very unlikely to be the largest one to have ever lived, so tyrannosaurus probably could've grown a bit bigger than scotty did. the question is really just how much bigger would be plausible

[feral arrow]

Very well Said

[ancient crystal]

I'm still holding onto hope that the rex skull that was auctioned off a few months ago was actually 6 foot long and not overexaggerated to make it sell for a higher price.

[heady thunder]

Cant wait for Rex estimates to reach 6 morbillion tons in 2069

[ancient crystal]

Speaking of rex, what specimen is the smallest adult we've uncovered?

[bright veldt]

Depends on what you mean by adult.

[rose thorn]

His name is Marf

[sour pelican]

Hey I know this is outdated but can we talk about how different the novel and the movie description of the dinosaurs in the jurassic park series are?

[woeful falcon]

Probably not unless we also throw in comparison to their real life counterparts too. Otherwise we're just talking about two works of fiction

[ancient crystal]

I mean, both are innaccurate now, but they were pretty good for their releases. I think people who complain about any of the JP designs (except dilo, and the new introductions in dominion) seem to forget that its a franchise and designs need to remain consistant

[sour pelican]

Yes true. But the novel description of the size of a dilophosaurus is much more accurate. Especially without those stupid neck frills.

Besides. The creatures arent even true dinosaurs. There is a ton of other factors and dna that was introduced, they were made to be attractions. Not to be accurate. Not true dinosaurs

[ancient crystal]

Yeah, but Crichton's rex for example is a little less accurate. Seeing as it had a forked tongue.

Ofc a huge detail in jurassic park the novel is that Wu didn't know what he was making, so any innaccuracies can be excused on account of the plot

[woeful falcon]

Literary cop-outs or backdoors if you will to create an excuse for scientific inaccuracies

That doesn't make chameleon carnotaurus much better, or venom

[sour pelican]

Obviously yes. And in the novel he literally pays for his crime in blood. Eaten alive by his own creations. Besides that Hammond didnt care. He wanted them ready so he would stop losing money and start making it. The precautionary measures were half assed (excuse my french). But the novel makes everything far more terrifying. A brightly colored rex so people could easily see the main attraction

[heady thunder]

Chameleon Carno is dope.

[ancient crystal]

I forgot about chameleon carno tbh.

It was a good concept looking at it from a horror perspective, but yeah, not the best decision otherwise.

[woeful falcon]

Absurdly fast Carnotaurus is doper

[sour pelican]

The down on the necks of the tyrannosaurus hatchlings, the way the Raptors havent perfected social hierarchy, a true sized but venomous dilophosaurus, brightly colored, size differences in male and females.

[ancient crystal]

I do really like venomous dilo tbf, just not Spielberg's take on it

[woeful falcon]

They were the same take

[sour pelican]

I do too. Although I enjoy Crichton's version better. (Misread it sorry)

[woeful falcon]

In fact Crichton's was arguably worse because it wasn't just a venomous dinosaur, it was a very large predatory dinosaur. One of the largest of its time

[ancient crystal]

The novel dilo didn't have frills or was super short is what I mean. I probably should've just said I don't like Spielberg's version of the dilo, thats my bad

[sour pelican]

At the time didnt we believe dilophosaurus was 10 feet tall?

[stiff osprey]

Crichton's was the size of a regular dilo and presumably overall similar in anatomy. Spielberg added the dwarf size, frills, and frog skull

[sudden wind]

Xiphactinus lasted to the end of the cretaceous funnily enough. It almost is a 50 million years lasting taxon.

Though for Hesperornis you are correct, it went extinct in the middle Campanian. From the Maastrichtian we have Canadaga and Asiahesperornis. Depending of the place the sequence sets in, you could guess which of both genus it is.
Either they used "Hesperornis" to get the public attention and simplify things (which I doubt honestly given that they named animals by their generic names), they could also have decided to bring Hesperornis back from extinction or maybe new Hesperornis remains have been found and re/dated to the Maastrichtian.

There also is another intruder in the show which is Thethyshadros, but I think it has to do with the fact it was previously thought to be Maastrichtian but I am not sure. Don't quote me on the last part.

[pearl briar]

or maybe that's a time traveling hesperonis

[woeful falcon]

I thought they were just referring to it being venomous when I first read their comment

[normal folio]

rex is currently 10.4 tons max i think thats a bit of a stretch

[chilly knot]

That's not the max

[normal folio]

it is

recent blog about gigas weight also mentions the current max rex weight. paratype and Scotty are the same weight now basically 10.4(even tho its debatable for paratype its the most accurate one we got so far)

[pearl briar]

rex vs quetz=stork vs lion (it was a bad idea lol)

[bright veldt]

Yeah basically

[normal folio]

that quetz is not gonna enjoy what is going happen to it

[white matrix]

I wonder if the Rex would get intimidated by the quetz because it looks so big

[normal folio]

nah prob wont rex literally hunts trike. its prob not gonna back down to a birb

[jagged trellis]

its still not wanting to get hurt, either of em, so prolly a stand off and dunno who will bugger off

[white matrix]

Tbf trike isn’t 6 feet taller than Rex

[normal folio]

that quetz prob doesn't want to get bit with a 6 ton bite force or slapped with a heavily muscled tail. nor the rex wants to be pecked with that beak. i really dunno whos gonna win

[cinder jewel]

If it comes to blows, quetz loses. Quetz wants to bluff.

[jagged trellis]

since we know rex is bulkier and quetz is more mobile at a basis, just seems to be going off intimidation which quetz might pull one there seeing 2 of em and the raw height, also quetz is taller than rex, unless rex is kangaroo standing whichcase same height

[normal folio]

no its not lul where did you got that from

[white matrix]

Is Rex 12ft or 15ft tall?

[jagged trellis]

rex is 12-14 feet hip height, quetz is like 16-19 feet tall at the head so in a comfortable pose, quetz is taller

[normal folio]

remember rex is also going for a intimidation thats why its keeping its jaws open. tbh rex is more intimidating for me then a literal birb that is tall. i would not want to be bitten in half by a 6 ton bite force..

[normal folio]

4 meters. trike is the same height if not less p sure rex also weights more then trike

[jagged trellis]

i mean i wouldn't wanna get stabbed by a solid 5 foot spear even as a big boi, plus it looks weird therefor dangerous is normally how logic works

[somber knoll]

Reject modernity, embrace kangaroo stance tradition

[white matrix]

Yeah that’s why I think quetz could intimidate Rex with its height and wings, and the two quetzals could scare it off. @normal folio I was saying quetz is 6ft taller than Rex not trike

[jagged trellis]

the original spino being a allosaur with a sail, gliding ankylosaurids, flame thrower para, heck yeah

[normal folio]

it could intimidate it but rex could easily just bite at it. and quetz will just fly of we gotta wait and see however

[somber knoll]

Final finger uniting hands and legs in pterosaurs is probably my favourite old paleontological mistake

[white matrix]

Tbf lions could easily kill ancient humans but they got scared because of the humans height (I’m aware lions still attack humans sometimes)

[cinder jewel]

Flamethrower parasaurolophus is definitely one of my favorite old paleontology things

[normal folio]

lions didnt got scared from the humans height they got scared by the tools most likely yeah it could happen in the rex's situation but if you look at the image if you scroll up you'll see that rex isnt that much smaller in height then that specific quetz that is attacking it

[jagged trellis]

simply put: no living thing wants to risk harm unless it benefits it greatly enough, and there both of em got heavy weapons, however the main key is rex is far bulkier while quetz is more mobile so could come down to harassment and patience for either of em, like how small vultures can snag stuff from larger ones even, or the larger one driving em away

[normal folio]

true

[white matrix]

No lions were definitely intimidated by height (and weapons) , and unless the Rex has fought a quetz before it would probably think the quetzals are big and strong

[normal folio]

weapons are considered tools. but yeah rex will prob get intimidated if thats the case

[jagged trellis]

to be fair most living things know taller is a sign of beefier....sometimes, tho rex is a big game specialist so who knows, watch it be a seagull who gets the body after all lul, or better yet a crab

[white matrix]

Rex either runs away or it absolutely destroys the quetzals

[normal folio]

true

[somber knoll]

or the quetzals run

[white matrix]

It’d be cool to see a theri rip a quetz apart in the next season

[covert lintel]

if that's the blog i'm thinking of, i would like to once again remind everyone here that that's one estimate using one method and the author specifically stated he thinks some other estimates using different methods are also valid

[normal folio]

theri didnt live at the same area as quetz did it ?

[normal folio]

yeah but they stated that this is also the most reliable way if i remember it correctly

[white matrix]

No but quetz could fly and there’s an episode where quetz is in South Africa so it can nest

[normal folio]

it wasn't quetz it was hatz. iirc

[white matrix]

No it was a quetz

[woeful falcon]

The author in question is the one that made that disclaimer in the first place

[covert lintel]

if he thinks there are other estimates just as valid as his, that implies he doesn't believe there's just one Most Reliable Method

[normal folio]

true true

[chilly knot]

Good that the person who estimated the weight literally stated that it could be higher up to ~11t if they just added slightly more tissue

[normal folio]

i didnt see any part stating that one or im just not looking that well

[chilly knot]

You are just not in the servers where they wrote this

[normal folio]

i just readed the blog... thats what most people do if that was true they would also state that in the blog since its also a important thing to know about

yep

[deft sigil]

Please remain polite and respectful towards other members. Refer to our #rules

[normal folio]

man mosa is now 7 tons well at least tylo got upsized to 16 tons

[chilly knot]

I was never mentioning giga once since there but yea

[normal folio]

mb then

idk i dont really research about mosa or tylo those were the stuff i heard from a trustable source

[chilly knot]

Tylo ain't certain yet

[woeful falcon]

Just as a lil reminder to homies who read this stuff anyway, an upsize to 16 tonnes doesn't mean all tylos were about 16 tonnes. This goes for any animal

That's not to say you were implying that, but so many people tunnel vision to the number as the end all be all

[normal folio]

yeah i know those stuff are normally the max estimates. i dont really get those stuff for average

[woeful falcon]

I thought as much. Not everyone does tho so I always like to say that where I can haha

[vocal breach]

I’d say absolute max for Rex is 11 tons

[normal folio]

yeah its good to know this stuff i agree with ya

[bright veldt]

I'm sorry but there is no logical reason why an adult tyrannosaurus would get intimidated by a quetzal. A rex of that age would already be more than familiar with quetzals and know their games. That rex's head is heavier than a quetzalcoatlus. It's like a vulture running off a lion.

This manz gunna die

[graceful quest]

It'll be cool if it was kinda keeping the rex at bay and rex just walks away or something like whatever

[bright veldt]

I could imagine them just annoying it into submission

[normal folio]

poor fella doesn't know who he is messin with

[novel atlas]

Crows do chase off dogs and coyotes where I live, despite being smaller and lighter

[light oxide]

Try telling that to honey badgers that are going against lions.

Jokes aside, I would assume that the tyrannosaurus is wary of the quetzalcoatlus's beak -- that may not kill a tyrannosaurus, but it may peak an eye out or whatnot if it's not careful enough.

Animals in real life tend to be wary of getting injuries.

[bright veldt]

When the T. rex can chomp it in half, a little peck that probably wouldn't even break skin isn't that much of a concern.

[normal folio]

yeah rex skin is most likely really thick

[bright veldt]

Vulture beaks can hurt too but you don't see lions giving a single f about them.

[neat drum]

it depends entirely on the animals and other factors, not just size

despite being able to swallow them whole neon tetras(yes those lil guys) can drive piranhas off of carcasses, for example

[glad carbon]

Piranhas are deemed vicious in the media but they’re pretty timid

[bright veldt]

I'm also talking about intimidation. Mobbing is pretty reasonable.

[light oxide]

Fair. But a better analogy would be a hyena against marabou storks.

I was just saying that the rex may have been being a little too careful -- hell, this may not even be an experienced rex. That or it was just observing the courage (or idiocy) of the quetz's before shooing them off.

[ancient crystal]

Theres a thin lin between courage and stupidity and the quetzes are crossing it hard

[neat drum]

exactly, despite size being on their side, and strength being on their side, they're normally quick to dip if even a small shoal of neon tetras

alternatively, the rex could just logically deem the quetz to be too much work to drive off and let them get their fill before returning to eat itself, sorta like lion prides will do if a nile monitor walks into their midst to eat from their kill

[glad carbon]

And the rex doesn’t know how heavy quetz is it jus sees something big

[neat drum]

they can kill the lizard in a single bite, but is it worth the effort and being swatted by a monitor lizard that will only eat a mouthful of food before moving on? nah

[bright veldt]

A rex of this size would already be more than familiar with quetz though, considering it's already established that azdarchids are common scavengers at kill sites

[neat drum]

also size intimidation exists and works for a reason ^ quetz can make itself look bigger and make itself seem like its too much work

nature doesn't like working by human logic in any case so

[glad carbon]

Just cause it sees something big every day doesn’t mean it wouldn’t deem it as a potential threat.

[bright veldt]

I mean ofcourse. It's big enough to where it can't simply be ignored, but I really don't know why a rex would be afraid. It knows quetzalcoatlus, it would know their games, it would know that they aren't dangerous. Intimidation alone doesn't work with that context.

[light oxide]

I do feel like we may potentially be missing a major point or two with the clips of the tyrannosaurus and the quetzalcoatlus duo -- we may just have to wait until the season comes out for us to truly see how they handle this interaction.

[glad carbon]

Lol imagine quetz just gets smashed

[glad carbon]

Don’t think it would be fear rly, just a “this really isn’t that serious.” Bro prolly thinking “I already ate Ian tryna mess with this big ahhs thing and fight to the death. not even worth it.”

[tough parcel]

Oh Quetzal will 100% intimidate the rex because PP always works on "muh subversion of tropes" (or at least, so I've been told that's their design motto), it's just annoying that it will happen

[vocal breach]

What if the T. rex has a heart attack

[bright veldt]

Yeah I really hope that's not the case. Like PP subverting expectations has worked because they kept it actually plausible.

[chilly knot]

Imagine speculating so hard over a goofy ojo alamo rex quetz encounter in PP

[vocal breach]

A heart attack is plausible

[light oxide]

Need I remind everyone, we are only seeing the initial interactions of the encounter -- we never truly see the whole outcome.

For all we know, we may "think" that Prehistoric Planet will let the quetz be successful to subvert common expectations, only to have the tyrannosaurus pummel the two flying reptiles to the ground, subverting OUR expectations of their potential resolve.

[vocal breach]

Wait, can quetz walk backwards?

[bright veldt]

idk actually, probably not?

[white matrix]

Dumb quetz can’t even walk backwards

[light oxide]

Hmm, it depends on whether or not bats are able to (specifically, vampire bats).

[vocal breach]

If one of those quetzes gets too close the Rex had a chance to charge them

[bright veldt]

You don't really see flying animals do in general. It's much easier to just turn/flap around.

[neat drum]

quetz could prob walk backwards(most animals can, just not well and since its not a natural movement they dont like doing it)

[glad carbon]

LOL

[rose thorn]

Inb4 the Rex is revealed to have ptsd when faced with Quetz, as it’s the last survivor from a nest raid made by them

[glad carbon]

Imagine the rex got pecked as a baby and was traumatized or something

[pearl briar]

talkin abt rex...

[wide glen]

ok bestinslot, new video, linked a place where apple showed all PP s2 pictures

its got XIPHACTINUS! but im not gonna spoil anything

[iron jewel]

spino - changes its looks every year

rex- gets bigger every year by a ton

gig-

90 percent of most dinos-

[vocal breach]

I can confirm that I weigh over 600 pounds and am 18 feet long yes

[vocal breach]

Speaking of, Utahraptor vs Inostrancevia who wins

[spark fjord]

Ima go with inostrancevia

[bright veldt]

Utahraptor is over 50% larger and got them talons. It's not that fair.

[pearl briar]

bet my money on utahraptor

yes
1 shot from utah then boom
utah slams no diff 🥱

[white matrix]

How big was the ankylosurus?

[trim crag]

7 ft tall utah 💀

[eager skiff]

Largest ones could get to 11 tons. Pretty hefty fellas

[normal folio]

there is a twitter post that has all pp season 2 dinosaur teasers

[wide glen]

i was not expecting my boy inostrancevia to be personally attacked like this what it always this small?

[normal folio]

it could be something else (i dont really know since i dont do research on creatures like that)

[hybrid ferry]

Cheese

[wide glen]

pack of ino might do somethin

[tranquil quartz]

Majungasaurus moment

[wide glen]

rajasaurus and accurate pycnonemosaurus are hard to tell about change my mind

[storm heron]

What about Majungasaurus

[wide glen]

***oh yeah that thing that makes king julien not want to move it move it ***

[woeful falcon]

Easily done, Pycnonemosaurus isn't a majungasaurine so it likely wouldn't have resembled Raja and also Pycno is huge compared to it

[neat drum]

I just like seein abelisaurs

Abelisaurs are neat

[tulip dove]

Agreed

[glacial silo]

Fasolasuchus eats both for dinner

[pearl briar]

no lol
my man can only eat the inostrancevia for dinner, not with utah (ig)

[covert lintel]

i don't think that inost is scaled quite right, seems like you scaled it to the person rather than the scale bar
utah is still a bit taller even when the scale is corrected, but things like this bug me easily

[tough parcel]

Oh yea, please scale it to the bar

The human in the Utahraptor scale is…kinda smol

[heady thunder]

Become ungovernable, scale it with the text

[pearl briar]

y'know what
@covert lintel @tough parcel i tried my best (by scale it to the bar)

[covert lintel]

yippee!

[white matrix]

Okay yall. Need your thoughts. Since this is a dinosaur chat. Do you think some dinosaurs had feathers and proto feathers?

[normal folio]

most dinos have feathers thats for sure proto feathers are also possible and some dinos did have them

[white matrix]

Because if you look up velociraptors, they are smaller than Utah raptors

[normal folio]

they are smaller ofc and they do have feathers same with any other dromaeosauridae

[white matrix]

Yes, but did the Utah raptor have feathers and / or proto feathers?

[nocturne cairn]

All dromeosaurs would have feathers

[normal folio]

utahraptor is a dromaeosaur... that says it all

[nocturne cairn]

All coelurosaurs really, and there's some evidence for it in other groups too, just not the same kind of feathers

[white matrix]

Ik I thought that it was different somehow lol my bad

[normal folio]

its ok utahraptor is the biggest dromaeosaur. there is evidence for some tyrannosaurids to have feathers too and other dinosaur groups there is alot of dinosaurs with feathers alot alot

[sacred mason]

All dromesaurs had fully developed feathers like birds today, some tyrannosaurus had feathers and larger ones like the rex might have had very sparse proto feathers but there is no evidence to support that atm

[bleak trail]

Has there been evidence of some suarapods having proto feathers? (I’m a little slow lately)

[normal folio]

Rex was proven wrong regarding feathers since we found a skin of it iirc i might be wrong. oh also juvie rexes are really likely to have feathers which drop when they grow

[sacred mason]

Not that I'm aware of most large animals don't have feathers/fur because it would make body temp regulation difficult

[heady thunder]

It was just a small portion of skin, so it just showed that part of Rex didnt have feathers more so then the entire animal

[normal folio]

but yeah feathers are unlikely rn since no evidence to support it. we just assumed since yuty had feathers rex might have had some

[sacred mason]

We haven't found every part of a rexes skin and proto feathers would be too small to leave a mark so we don't know yet

[normal folio]

yeah its good to not use a feathered rex rn till we have more information since anything can change really

[heady thunder]

It looks better anyway lel

[normal folio]

without feathers rex looks better imo. with feathers it just looks like a buff chicken

[bleak trail]

Even if Rex did have some type of tuft I feel like it’d be on the most important parts of the body. Such as around the face/ears to protect the senses from dust n such

[heady thunder]

Thats, thats what I said.

[normal folio]

yes and i was giving my point.....

[heady thunder]

Yes and I agree, it does look like a gigantic chicken

[sacred mason]

Forgot to add ceratopsians and pachycephelosaurs might have had quill like feathers on their tails as we have evidence of them on psticatosaurus wich is a ceratopsian

[covert lintel]

there's a lot of space between chicken-level fluff and 100% scaly. the prehistoric planet tyrannosaurus is feathered, but it'd be a massive stretch to call it chicken-like

[normal folio]

prehistoric planet rex has small amount of feathering on hes head... its almost impossible to see if you dont pay attention

[covert lintel]

yes, and that sparse feathering is what tyrannosaurus probably had. the thick coat of bird-like feathers has been outdated for a while

[normal folio]

plus i was talking about a complete feathering of the body like the 2020 rex people draw and all that. prehistoric planet rexes feathering is so small nobody ever prob noticed it till sometime after the show came out. yeah rex is possible to have that kind of feathering prob remaining from juvie stage

[glacial silo]

Fasolasuchus is like 30 feet long and 3 tons.

[covert lintel]

digital duck's model is another example of a plausible feathered tyrannosaurus

[normal folio]

i didnt even notice it had feathers

[covert lintel]

"2020 rex"...? i think that went out of style a bit earlier than that
also yes the point is literally that a feathered tyrannosaurus doesn't necessarily look like a giant chicken oml

[normal folio]

i think it was 2020 or smth i dont remember that well. could have been 2014. and my point is that a 100% feathered rex looks alot like a chicken but just scaly and buff

[jagged trellis]

yeah the general consensus from what ive seen is the chicks having large amount of covering, teens losing it a fair bit and adults having none to elephant hair amounts

[wide glen]

thats not really feathers its more like prehistoric planets peach fuzz type of plumage

[covert lintel]

sparse simple feathers are still feathers, dude.

[elfin pulsar]

Those are feathers

[bright veldt]

Yeah that is what’s most likely. I find it really hard to be believe tyrannosaurus was completely featherless. They’re just too omnipresent in coelurosauria.

[bright veldt]

https://youtube.com/shorts/xLmY6RBn5Kg?feature=share

[heady thunder]

That sounds like its suffering

[light osprey]

Those are feathers

A lovely example of sparse feathering in a Tyrannosaur.

[wide glen]

why that hairing look like my uncle

[iron jewel]

bruh that skin print was most likely a theigh pring it wasn’t a spine print not enough evidence to say it wasn’t some proto on top or sprose hair’s similar to asian elephants

[normal folio]

its still some kind of evidence that it didnt have a fully feathered body

[iron jewel]

yeah im saying your pointing as if it couldn’t have any proto on spine area there no need for rex to have a full feathered body its its climates it lived in

[normal folio]

i didnt point like that.....

[elfin pulsar]

Ngl it definitely seemed that way

[light osprey]

Tyrannosaurus is scaled to an extent. That’s all we can say for certain.

[normal folio]

didnt you read the i might be wrong area?

[elfin pulsar]

Anyways rex definitely had some sort of feathering

Also anyone know what an accurate weight and size is for Leeds currently, ik it got downsized

[heady thunder]

All of them are accepted from what Ive heard and seen, some are 12m and like 20 tons and some are 16m and over 40

[rich onyx]

Don't certain species of fish never stop growing?

[bright veldt]

They do but it’s really negligible

[neat drum]

Most fish dont stop growing but it plateaus out except in certain species where individuals randomly grow larger than the rest

[heady thunder]

Is the whale shark the biggest fish ever or does it have competition? Wait megalodon exists I forgot

[neat drum]

I.e sailfin mollies which normally max at about 3" long save certain males who will hit 7", or clownfish where the dominant fish, which is female, grows to larger sizes than the males, if the female dies the largest or more dominant male will sex change into a female and continue growing

[elfin pulsar]

Leeds

[neat drum]

Even in modern times the basking shark gives it a run for its money

[heady thunder]

There are almost 19 m whale sharks recorded

[tough parcel]

Megalodon outweighs Leeds and whale sharks by a country mile

[elfin pulsar]

Really? Nvm then lol

Also ngl I forgot about sharks

[heady thunder]

Yeah, even whale sharks usually arent that big, mostly from 9-12 m.

[covert lintel]

iirc a lot of reptiles also don't stop growing entirely, but they also generally have an upper limit of sorts for a variety of reasons

[bright veldt]

Leedischthys is 12 meters and 17 tons, which is among the biggest fish but even large whale sharks are bigger. Meanwhile megalodon is the 2nd largest animal ever, aside from the blue whale.

[white matrix]

Is shonisaurus 3rd biggest of all time?

[heady thunder]

Thats no fish, thats an icthyasaur , idk how to spell it tho

[woeful falcon]

Close, ichthyosaur

[heady thunder]

Should have guessed that it was an o lol

[bright veldt]

Shonisaurus is an ichthyosaur, not a fish. It’s in the top rankings in terms of marine reptile size next to temnodontosaurus though. The largest marine reptile is shastasaurus, which is 16 meters and 30 tons I believe (probably not exactly correct but it’s around that).

[woeful falcon]

What clapped leeds's weight estimates btw, I thought there was a time where it was in that ballpark too

[heady thunder]

They say that the 16m estimates are plausible from the last time I did any digging.

[bright veldt]

Leedischthys is a tad incomplete, so it was recently reconstructed more rigorously based on new info from close relatives.

[woeful falcon]

Ahh that'll do it

[bright veldt]

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/hiJITLFsEWz_dlEgZFTADb0SXWH7XRBfxOohQvIJqPU/https/pbs.twimg.com/media/FJ084SCX0AU_saR.jpg%3Alarge

[woeful falcon]

Shasta cola

[bright veldt]

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/6NxuhzVScyzoCPQ5WDxD8m09ycxt8MuMKhbhQHssmJE/https/pbs.twimg.com/media/FeRbfy6X0AA9ifG.jpg

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/ZI7ZvHLdKGvAg7fvsDB1ki5sWA7uAqiiiGYBYnvJ5lg/https/pbs.twimg.com/media/FoIrqP2XkAcJRGM.jpg

Wonder how they’re gunna handle leedsichthys reproduction given its reproductive strategy of spraying and praying eggs with the young being plankton lol

[heady thunder]

The same as they did with everything, just a smaller leed.

[light oxide]

That is assuming, of course, that megalodon truly had the shape that we may think it had -- we only have found their jaw bones and teeth, to my knowledge.

[white matrix]

I didn’t realize you were talking about fish, and i always mix shasta and shoni up

[bright veldt]

We have vertebrae and a potential skull as well. On top of understanding the shape of otodontids in general

[clever sable]

Whats megalodon mass estimat?

[bright veldt]

20 meters and over 100 tons

[clever sable]

I think the fin whale might be slightly larger in terms of mass, or around the same size, I could be wrong

[bright veldt]

Fin whales are about 70 tons

[white matrix]

Someone tell me the top ten largest creatures of all time pls 🐋

[clever sable]

I thought it was around 95-100 tons? As I said I could be wrong

[bright veldt]

Largest Animals to Ever Exist:

1. Blue Whale – 30 meters, 200 tons
2. Megalodon – 20 meters, 100 tons
3. Argentinosaurus / Bruhathkaysaurus – 34 meters, 85 tons
4. Northern Right Whale / Bowhead Whale – 16 meters, 80 tons
5. Fin Whale – 22 meters, 70 tons
6. Puertasaurus / Maraapunisaurus – 30 meters, 65 tons / 27 meters, 65 tons

Modern animals are based on averages for obvious reasons, while we can't infer such from prehistoric animals. Only exception is that the blue whale uses one of the largest estimates because, unlike other baleen whales, their populations haven't recovered so an average can't be assessed accurately.

[covert lintel]

tbf, while we don't have a super large amount of postcranial material from otodus species, it's not like it had no close relatives we can look to - just like we can infer much of the shape of... *throws dart at board* pycnonemosaurus based on other abelisaurids, we can infer the rough shape of otodus based on other otodontids, such as cretalamna.

and yeah i know cretalamna is Kind Of Tiny compared to otodus, so there'd be some difference in shape between the two, but the overall shape probably wouldn't be drastically different, y'know? they're still relatives, even if they're very differently sized relatives.

there was going to be more to this message about how lamniformes tend to have broadly similar shapes (part of why it took me. um. 30 minutes to fact-check and write this. ) but then i looked closer and realized there's also some lamniformes that get really, really weird with it so it wasn't as good a point as i thought. that said, the predatory pelagic ones do generally follow that trend so i feel it's worth mentioning at least

[clever sable]

So 2 things about that, we don't even know bruhathkayosaurus existed, it may actually have just been a fossilized tree trunk with some therapod bones by it, and second I'm pretty sure megalodon got a downsize as it is no longer scales off great whites as they are no longer thought to be it's closest relative

Megalodon's closest living relatives are actually mako sharks, also I love your content

[bright veldt]

Megalodon not being scaled off of great whites is nothing new. This massive size increase is actually from a recent study in 2021. Beuhathlayosaurus also, to my knowledge, is most likely real given that images of the fossil were found recently and it was reevaluated in another recent study, which safely placed it as similar in size to Argentinosaurus.

[jagged trellis]

muh boi argent still making the list, this does put a smile on my face

[covert lintel]

the problem with bruhath is less that we're not sure it existed (2022 paper came to the conclusion that it's real), and more that the holotype disintegrated so nobody can really study it anymore

[clever sable]

The photos are real but we don't know if they photographed fossils came from the same creature even with the photos especially with the lack of detail in the sketch that was given to the discovered material

[woeful falcon]

I like to think the illustration is actually on point and the bones just looked like that

[covert lintel]

actually wait hold on. are shark clades Weird™️ or is otodus equally closely related to mako sharks and great whites? bc otodus doesn't seem to be a lamnid, but both mako sharks and great whites are, so why would it be closer to one than the other? or am i missing smth

[clever sable]

Sauropods are weird and many of the potentially largest can't be officially recognized because of how dubious they are, the largest one that can be officially recognized as valid is Argentinasaurus

[woeful falcon]

funny wiki says Otodontid Lamnoid but not Lamnid so

kinda close

[white matrix]

Thanks

[woeful falcon]

which doesn't come as a surprise to me if the "not just a giant great white" restorations still end up looking like a giant great white

come to think of it, I've known Megalodon was a behemoth but I never really stopped to think just how huge it was like, compared to any other shark that exists ever

[covert lintel]

this thing (cretalamna, small otodontid) just looks like a slightly stretched salmon shark

[heady thunder]

Anyone got a skeletal reconstruction of Megalodon or they dont exist?

[bright veldt]

Plenty of body reconstructions do but not skeletals

[heady thunder]

Huh, big great white

[tranquil quartz]

When did spinosaurids start to die off? Midway through the Cretaceous?

[bright veldt]

There was a massive series of extinction events at the start of the late Cretaceous that wiped out a good chunk of organisms.

[raven kayak]

I haven't seen this posted here but here is Dan's newest giga

[compact leaf]

Patagotitan is also around the same size as argent in terms of pure body size it may have gotten a weight decrease though

I’m a bit late to the topic but oh well

[white matrix]

It changed again??

[bright veldt]

These extinction events mostly affected the oceans (nerfing the base of the food web, tanking pterosaur diversity beyond repair, wiping out ichthyosaurs and pliosaurs) but it also affected terrestrial organisms too

The entirety of carnosauria disappeared (including the spinosaurs), and also wiped out sauropods from North America until the migration of Alamosaurus to the continent.

[white matrix]

The cenomanian-turonian one?

[woeful falcon]

this is old also haha.

[clever sable]

Poor spino, he wasn't even an aquatic pursuit predator (probably)

[bright veldt]

Yeah. It wasn’t a singular event but instead about 5-6 of them over the span of 10 million years or so. Some of them were apparently comparable to the Devonian mass extinction in terms of ecological damage.

[compact leaf]

in fairness we don’t know what happened in a lot of the world during the mid-late cretaceous, so there very well could still be sauropods in eastern north america for example and we have huge chunks of africa and europe with little or no late cretaceous material

[clever sable]

I'm honestly really disappointed with thals and probably hatzegs wings, first off they don't fold properly and second they are spoon shaped which is a big no because that spoon shaped wings helping with flight was created by David Peters and spread around as a meme so it basically has no credibility

[compact leaf]

in western north america though the sauropods do disappear other than alamosaurus

[woeful falcon]

el giga de dan

[bright veldt]

The North American sauropod thing is a bit wrapped in mystery yeah. Them actually remaining but rarer and with lack of material is a theory, although not likely. It’s also not clear whether Alamo came from South America or Asia.

[woeful falcon]

wait hold on did he update it AGAIN and clap the spines over the hip? I just noticed the silhouette on the blog is now like this one

1. dan can you stop updating this damn thing jesus christ
2. change the year for the love of everything we are 5 months into 2023

[clever sable]

How do you feel about maraapunisaurus? I'm personally not 100% convinced it existed but I like asking people how they feel about things

[bright veldt]

I’m a lot more fine with it now that scientists have looked at what remained of its description and gave it an actually reasonable size estimate.

[compact leaf]

the late cretaceous sauropod diversity in general is a weird mystery, a bunch of the places where we have huge non titanosaur sauropod diversity go dark in the late cretaceous so we just don’t know what’s going on

personally I think if there’s more north american sauropods they’re probably in the east and not just lurking around the west with no material, it’s still possible but not necessarily likely

[chilly knot]

Certified pseudo-description moment

[woeful falcon]

that skeletal has gone through like 7 updates homie needs to give it a rest for a bit. Giga looking like igor now

at the very least do the bare damn minimum and have the correct year

[clever sable]

I find maraapunisaurus very dubious due to the grammatical errors in the field notes along with abbreviating millimeters with M instead of MM along with a contracting measurement on the dimensions of the intact vertebrae, it's possible it existed i just don't exactly trust it's existence, it's possible but imo not likely

[rich onyx]

What’s every one’s take on Oxalaia? I have a feeling it’s actually a South American population or species of Spinosaurus

[neat drum]

oxalaia is incredibly fragmentary and also the holotype got destroyed so rip

whatever it is, be it its own thing or a spinosaurus sp, its a south american spinosaurine and thats incredibly dope

[clever sable]

I also agree here but uhhh we don't have any material ATM and before it was destroyed it was minimal at best (ignore the outdated general model)

[rich onyx]

Oh my god no lol. That’s it?! That’s even less than I thought

[clever sable]

I really feel like paleontologist should stop naming creatures that only have 1 or 2 extremely fragmentary bones, or at least not giving them such distinct looks, I know you can just look at the bones and see what they are most similar to but oxalaia has such a distinct look for such little material

[chilly knot]

Monsters resurrected spino

[clever sable]

It just feels very redundant, it makes sense but how are you supposed to know it's not just a different species of a already named genus

[raven kayak]

thats the old one, the newest one is from the blog https://www.thecodontia.com/blog/the-largest-theropod-dinosaur-known-to-science

[neat drum]

reminder that most skeletals are not done by the paleontologists who described them, but instead paleoartists, so dont blame the paleontologists for the unorthodox design above, unless it was in their paper

[clever sable]

I know this statement makes me sound like an idiot but uhhh maybe don't give something an entire look with 2 fist sized bones, just give it a name and wait for more material

[woeful falcon]

yeah read on two comments after my first reply

[stiff osprey]

on the contrary, don't name it.
you will never know if more material belongs to the same species unless you find those exact 2 bones

[clever sable]

The one in this article is using the dentary specimen while the one pictured in the Paleo art @woeful falcon posted was the holotype so it's different specimens

[rich onyx]

Some paleontologists really fall for the allure of fame. Fragmentary spinosaurine remains don’t make headlines… but a new genus? Jackpot, baby

[woeful falcon]

the specimen wouldn't make a difference, the dentary specimen is just dentary

everyone I know now please don't tag me lol. these updates are fresh

[clever sable]

The dentary specimen is significantly larger being 10.4 tons compared to 9.5 tons of the holotype

[woeful falcon]

I'm not talking about the mass.

ah well, in a year it'll change again, maybe twice by that point

[ruby geyser]

Fun paleo fact here near my home, in one of our caves that we used to grow shrooms we found a fossils of a Squalodon Bellunesis

[woeful falcon]

not gonna lie to you, the build up to that did not make it seem like it was gonna be a paleo fact

[heady thunder]

Were the shrooms paleo accurate?

[clever sable]

Well that's how size is measured

[woeful falcon]

Yes I know, I've read the blog. What I didn't know was the skeletal had been updated, which isn't to do with the dentary specimen or its size.

[clever sable]

Also, DR Allan grant from JP is an idiot, he says "giganotosaurus, the largest carnivore to ever live" which is blatantly incorrect

[tough parcel]

I mean, they’re just trying to hype up the “villain” of the story lmao

[woeful falcon]

thankfully Alan Grant is a fictional character

[white matrix]

🤓actually he said that in the JW series so actually you are being factually incorrect🤓 snort snort

[stiff osprey]

This is the same guy who went ''don't move, its vision is based on movement'' based only on T.rex fossils and called a 40 t sauropod over to his hiding place because herbivore = friendly

let's face it, Grant gets things right by pure luck

[clever sable]

I'm pretty sure the blue whale still exists and even in universe the mosasaurus would be the largest because JW mods is like 66 meters long

[white matrix]

He said terrestrial predator you silly goose (I’m aware he’s wrong but it’s called a joke)

[rich onyx]

Anybody who knows anything about large herbivores know their first response to everything is to try and squish it

[clever sable]

Tbf is a huge sauropod tried to attack you, you could just outwalk it lol, exceptionally large sauropods like dreadnaughtus, brachiosaurs and Argentinasaurus all had speeds below 10 mph

[rich onyx]

I mean fair haha

[tough parcel]

Nooo? The larger ones were pretty fast…also who walks at 10+ mph lmao

[clever sable]

10 mph walking speed* due to their massive legs a run would probably be pretty fast because of how far their legs would move but nothing fast enough you can't outrun

[tough parcel]

I know, but no human walks at 10mph, I assume most hit like 2-3 at maximum

[heady thunder]

You can probably speed walk close to that.

[clever sable]

You wouldn't really be collapsing from exhaustion after running at 10 mph for a while

[tough parcel]

Have you tried running at 10mph for an extended period of time?? Not everyone's a track star

[stiff osprey]

tbf I don't think a giant sauropod is running for an extended period of time either.

But you're definitely going to have to bolt to escape one

[clever sable]

Yes I have, the average run speed for a human is around 15 mph so even a below average runner can still do it

[tough parcel]

Oh yea, I suspected that as well, but still a sustained running speed of 10mph is gonna knock anyone out unless they've trained

[stiff osprey]

I know my ass ain't holding 10 mph for long 😂 but probably longer than a 30 ton titanosaur

[compact leaf]

a lot of small things also probably just weren’t even on a sauropods radar so the crushing might not even be intentional lol

[clever sable]

I swear Argentinasaurus practices black magic to keep it the largest dinosaur, literally nothing has been placed over it that hasn't been labeled dubious or straight up invalid and one of the contenders for largest dinosaur got their only known fossils disintegrated

[woeful falcon]

it can run fast, but can it turn fast enough???? dodge maneuver

[stiff osprey]

no one has brought up a bone that is larger than the corresponding bone in Argentinosaurus since 1993, people just like to claim they have the biggest sauropod based on the most random scaling methods possible

(Maraapunisaurus doesn't count, it was found AND lost over a century before 1993)

[clever sable]

Technically bruhathkayosaurus is thought of as valid by some paleontologists but we can't tell because it disintegrated and while it's definitely not a tree it still has the possibility of being 2 different dinosaurs that got jumbled into 1, most consider it dubious at best though

[stiff osprey]

bruhath got close, but no one brought it up because it was left in the ground for monsoon floods to destroy

[compact leaf]

you don’t need to turn when you’re w i d e

[hushed valve]

dont tell me he updated it again

[stiff osprey]

you know what would be terrifying? you swerve to get out of the way of a sauropod, it grabs you with its mouth and throws you like a camel

[bright veldt]

I'm curious how much they could actually lift given how massive they were. I guess it also depends on the strength of their skulls but camara had a pretty powerful bite.

[clever sable]

Also maraapunisaurus is now thought of at around 60-70 tons and 30-35 meters as it is now considered a rebbachisaurid so it was scaled off those while the 66 meter 150 ton estimate was scaled off diplodocids as it was once believed to be one but due to the taller vertebrae it can be identified as a rebbachisaurid

[stiff osprey]

relative to their size, probably very little. But a truly large one could probably yeet a person with little trouble

[bright veldt]

Thinking shiz like this

[stiff osprey]

I think this is pushing it, the skulls are super delicately built. although if any sauropod could do it it would be camarasaur-like skulls

[neat drum]

Also short throw is more possible than just grabbin and holding(think horse throwing things with its mouth)

[heady thunder]

I think you landed in the wrong discord.

[neat drum]

Big sauropod grabbin and yeeting a megatheropod

[stiff osprey]

nahh bro's neck will break

[clever sable]

Where would it even fit it's mouth around a megatheropod

[neat drum]

Skin go brrr

Also true but the mental image do be amusing

[tulip dove]

Or just grab it by the tail and YEET

[stiff osprey]

Rex, with a skull that far outweighs the skulls of the largest titanosaurs, can lift about a ton with its head+neck
a giant sauropod i'd guess would be able to lift like 500lb

[light oxide]

So, shall we talk about the largest rodent to ever live?

Here's a size diagram to show how big it would be:

[ancient crystal]

I like to imagine some stupid small carnivore harassing a large sauropod and getting flung into the stratosphere by it

[stoic tinsel]

wonder what behemoth of an animal was eating lisowicia

oh wait smok

[lone plinth]

ahora no la veo xc

[rich onyx]

The name alone makes it my new favorite

[silver canopy]

Apparently The Smallest Sauropod Was Still 20ft long so Still huge From a quick Google search

[red willow]

Could ceratopsians actually gallop or no?

[stiff osprey]

unclear, their limbs are not similar to any modern galloping animal other than maybe rhinos

but i'd say ones under 3 tonnes could gallop

[coral briar]

Honest opinion AI creatures need to come desperately to path of Titans as well as a PvE option because player's are honestly toxic

[stable sky]

eh

[ancient crystal]

Sir this is paleochat

[hasty wharf]

^

[jagged trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-star-no-this-is-patrick-spongebob-angry-mad-gif-9319809 i had to

[stable sky]

albertas players gonna have to learn a normal dino after this update lol

[stuck chasm]

This channel is for the discussion of past and present paleontological discoveries, scientific news, and depictions of prehistoric creatures in media in relation to palaeontology. Please stay on topic and refer to our ⁠rules and pinned messages before posting. For conversations related to in-game topics please head over to our #path-of-titans or #backer-chat channels instead. Thank you!

[barren compass]

amazing dinoworld 😭

[pearl briar]

what is deinocheirus da biggest duck most up-to-date length & weight?

[bright veldt]

12 meters 8.5 tons

[pearl briar]

thank you very much 😎 👍

[ocean drum]

Isn’t the duck closer to 13 metres in length

[pearl briar]

where did u get that dan's giga skeletal?

[bright veldt]

No

[wide glen]

He pulled up

[ruby geyser]

The fact that growing shrooms brought to the discovery of a rare fossil to me seems pretty funny toh, they found an entire skull of Squalodon , is kinda a big deal , now is exposed in Venice or Padova in a museum

[warm temple]

Hello paleo people
Tell me your fav therizinosaurus depiction

[ruby geyser]

I like when feathers are shown , it makes it more unique and eye catching than a slim lizard with long nails

[light oxide]

The All Yesterdays's depiction:

[tranquil quartz]

The Walking With Dinosaurs one, it may be outdated but I grew up with Wwd

[ruby geyser]

Gotta admit I like it but I’m not sure the tounge is rly accurate

[light oxide]

To be fair, we never truly know how long a dinosaur's tongue is just based on its skull -- for example, you can never really know that, based on a woodpecker's skull, its tongue wraps around its skull, resulting in a long tongue, or that, based on a giraffe's skull, a giraffe has a very long tongue.

[tiny holly]

You'd be surprised, we actually can get a basic understanding of an animal's tongue based on the jaw, muscle attachment leaves signs on bones you can use to figure out how muscles likely looked on the animal. And the tongue is just a big muscle. IIRC most dinosaurs had pretty stiff, immobile tongues. An exception I remember is ankylosaurs apparently having quite flexible tongues

[fallow plank]

Keep those lushes lips moist

[pearl briar]

oh yeah i just rewatched the pp2 trailer and i think i just realized smth...

[heady thunder]

What hadro is that?

[pearl briar]

theorized to be a Tethyshadros but they're even didn't make it to Maastrichtian so i'd say an impostor hadrosaur

[stiff osprey]

it was discovered that they weren't maastrichtian 2 years ago, PP was already mid production

[heady thunder]

They have remains of their beaks being like that?

[pearl briar]

so pp was mid?

[tiny holly]

its subtle in this picture but yes

[heady thunder]

Cool, I thought it was just PP being hypothetical like the Dreadnoghtus air sacs, or was it another sauropod idk cant remember.

[pearl briar]

yes, duck are also big back then million years ago
explodes

[fallow plank]

Guess the male Hatze kidnapped the babeh and presented it to gurl as a present perhaps

[hardy ravine]

Can we talk about Nanuqsaurus its crying in the corner

[wide glen]

Are those sinraptors

[tough parcel]

Utahraptors (Old versions)

[hardy ravine]

pretty damn sure no1 knows about this onw

[white matrix]

Micro

[stiff osprey]

Simosuchus >> any dinosaur in pet potential

[white matrix]

Fax

Hatzegopteryx.

[candid harness]

Velociraptor

[ancient crystal]

Clearly compys are the best option because imagine you're getting mugged, you can just reach into your pocket and throw a few angry chicken lizards at your attacker.

Pocket compys

[compact leaf]

any sort of dromaeosaurid would be terrible, the best would probably be a really small ornithopod of some kind (simosuchus is better than all of them though)

[cinder jewel]

Microraptor, microceratus, or someone else

[heady thunder]

@tight kettle

[cloud dagger]

Parvicursor or shuvuuia

[rich onyx]

Imagine something with the sociopathic tendencies of a corvid, the mass and athleticism of a good-sized dog, and the predatory instincts of a cat. No thank you

[tranquil quartz]

Parkosaurus

[bright veldt]

Eh microraptor would work. It’s basically just a weird crow.

[tranquil quartz]

Yi Qi as well

[rich onyx]

Okay, any of the truly tiny dromaeosaurids get a pass, just because I think they would be too small to do real damage

[white matrix]

Just get yourself a dryo

[rich onyx]

Any small herbi is probably the way to go

[trim crag]

like 😵‍💫 magic shrooms or just normal edible mushrooms?

[heady thunder]

Apatosaurus.

[sudden wind]

Yi qi

[somber knoll]

So...quite a lot of cat species?

[rich onyx]

You're not wrong...

[tough isle]

Can someone please explain the difference between triceratops and eotriceraratops because they look the exact same to me

[bright veldt]

The biggest draws are proportionally larger skull and differences in the cheek bones

[tranquil quartz]

And Triceratops is bigger iirc

[nocturne cairn]

Eotrike is also a couple million years older iirc

[ruby geyser]

Normal edible champignon

[trim crag]

Oh lol

[bright veldt]

That is also true but that alone usually doesn’t designate a different genus

[covert lintel]

eotrike is a bobblehead and trike is relatively normal

[tranquil quartz]

Eotrike casually being mid

[rich onyx]

Was Eotrike smaller? I thought it was slightly larger

[elfin pulsar]

Nah, smaller than trike

[rich onyx]

This size chart seems to differ. Mind you, it is off of Wikipedia

[chilly knot]

Inaccurate, L

[covert lintel]

eotrike was formerly thought to be larger than trike, since its skull is larger than trike's and it was reconstructed with the same proportions as trike, but later on another specimen was found that revealed eotrike just had a disproportionately large head compared to trike

[light oxide]

I wouldn't really trust Wikipedia as a "reliable" source.

[heady thunder]

Sadly, Eo aint that big anymore.

[elfin pulsar]

It’s wrong

Eo just has a big head now

[rich onyx]

Huh, interesting

[chilly knot]

afaik eotrike skull isnt even bigger than the biggest trike skull, so this was misleading since the beginning

[rich onyx]

The chart must be labeled incorrectly then. Or just plain wrong

[covert lintel]

's probably just outdated. a lot of the problems with wikipedia as a source stem from palaeontology-related pages not always being updated as often as they should be

[jagged trellis]

to be fair wikipedia is mostly accurate, this is just a case of it...not

[dense thicket]

The movie is made for entertainment not for accuracy

[covert lintel]

this is a channel about paleontology and the accuracy of extinct animals in media, bud, i'm not sure what you expected

[tough parcel]

“Made for entertainment, not accuracy”

The JW movies, yea…JP movies, ehhhh

[sour pelican]

Its true either way.

[tough isle]

I do prefer the novel version of the dilo to the movie version

[ancient crystal]

JP the movie did a lot right, but there were certain decisions (like dilo) which were just bad.

In other cases there were details from the novel that absolutely shouldn't have been cut, such as the reasoning behind the rex only being able to see movement.

[tough parcel]

Keep in mind too, most inaccuracies are cause of Spielberg, the concept art and such were pretty good

[rich onyx]

[Sweats in Velociraptor antirrhopus]

[tranquil quartz]

Not really Sadly, happily Eotrike is mid

[covert lintel]

that's also a good point; they weren't immune to exaggerating stuff to look cooler, but there was certainly an attempt at accuracy; the raptors even got feathers in one of the sequels. sure, the feathers weren't great, but that still means they tried to keep up with the progression of science (and maybe the feathers were good for the time, idk)

[sour pelican]

I want to imagine the r rated movie looks more book accurate

[ancient crystal]

Even JW went so far as to explicitly say "these aren't the real animals"

[tough parcel]

I have a meme explaining this exact situation, but it’s a meme so it’d be deleted instantly by the moderators

[ancient crystal]

I wish we got an R rated jurassic park, the lost potential kills me

[sour pelican]

Imagine a purple forked tounge wrapping around you as you get pulled into the eager jaws of a mutant rex

[ancient crystal]

Or the craddle scene with the compys, that alone is worthy of a jurassic park remake

[sour pelican]

Of course Nedrys death

The carnotaur scene would be terrifying.

[rich onyx]

Wu's death freaked me out the most when I first read it

[ancient crystal]

Wu's death would've been great to put in the movie, would prevent him from becoming a science hippy 5 movies later

[rich onyx]

Did he become a hippy? He seemed more "mad scientist" to me

[heady thunder]

Wus death was awesome.

[ancient crystal]

In dominion? He was giving off major hippy vibes

[sour pelican]

I feel like the most horrifying scene in any book was probably Nedry. He has a much better reason to be a traitorin the book.

[rich onyx]

Imma be honest, I only saw the first JW movie lol

[dense thicket]

dr wu deleted death scene:

[jagged trellis]

while it is interesting to have em try to redeem creating living things and creating these literal global problems, having em die and the problems haunt his team would've been more fitting id say, also paleo chat so bones

[sour pelican]

I didnt like the giganotosaurus in dominion
And I loved the death scene for wu

[covert lintel]

so, 🦴bones, huh?

[dense thicket]

More horrifying deleted scene might be spinosaurus death on isla sorna

[ancient crystal]

That man has a legendary mustache

[covert lintel]

"terrifying creature" "monsters"
leedsichthys: *is a filter feeder*

also this video is literally a conspiracy theory along the lines of "megalodon is still alive its just in the mariana trench!!!" except even worse. like. this video is implying that leeds is still alive in the modern day when its latest known fossil is from the jurassic (and it's trying to act like an intact, isolated spine of a giant animal laying exposed on the sea floor isn't at all suspicious)

[ancient crystal]

Do we know where in the water column leed lived?

[tough parcel]

“We haven’t discovered all life in the oceans yet!!!”

Yea, most of that life is like under a pound, if that 💀 there’s no multi-ton mega predator fish living in the ocean’s depths that we haven’t discovered yet

[ancient crystal]

"But- but- DEeP SeA GigAnTIsm"

[covert lintel]

the video was fishy (heh) basically as soon as it started calling the prehistoric equivalent of a basking shark (!this is not entirely literal!) a "terrifying monster" tbh. similar energy to hyping up a compsognathus as a cold-blooded killer

[heady thunder]

It was a cold blooded killer tho, all predators are by default.

[covert lintel]

true(-ish. it's kind of anthropomorphizing language) but it's also like the size of a cat. it's a bit silly to hype it up the same way you'd hype up, say, a utahraptor

[clever sable]

R rated Jurassic park would be cool but even if we did the 1993 film is still a masterpiece and would probably still be considered the better of the 2

[heady thunder]

Well, to us, but to a small lizard, is as monstrous as it gets.

[clever sable]

Animals aren't monsters, predators Hunt to survive not for pleasure (except orcas and humans)

Calling something a cold blooded killer just because they need to hunt to eat is incredibly ignorant

[heady thunder]

Depends on the animal, cold blooded means without emotions or remorse, I doubt the snake has any remorse or strong feelings towards the mouse it just killed. Also there are plenty of animals who just, kill for fun, like a house cat killing everything it finds, just to not eat them.

[tough parcel]

Technically they are cold-blooded as they do not feel remorse for the prey they kill

[clever sable]

Yes but they don't get enjoyment from it like serial killers and such, they hunt to survive, they are not monsters

[heady thunder]

Cold blooded doesnt mean they feel pleasure, thats called sadistic. And Im not implying that predators are evil, Im just saying, they dont care, like the wolves eating the deer alive, it doesnt get more cold blooded then that. Doesnt make em evil nor sadistic, but these are just semantics.

[clever sable]

Cold blooded and sadistic are usually used together

[covert lintel]

it does feel kinda misleading to call an animal a cold-blooded killer in general tbh, it makes it sound like a murderer and not something that's just doing what it has to to survive. it's Awesomebro "Documentary" language, basically

[ancient crystal]

Thank you for including those sea devils, when I tell people I actually despise orcas they act all upset or shocked until I spend the next 10 minutes describing the literal war crimes the species commits daily

[clever sable]

To be cold blooded you would need to understand that what you are doing causes pain and suffering and still not care that your doing it, the majority of animals do not know the pain and suffering they are causing

[clever sable]

I love orcas but they are evil

[heady thunder]

Thats literally what cold blooded means, they dont even consider the other party,, textbook definition.

[light osprey]

Cold blooded means they are ectothermic

[tough parcel]

Like what because most of the stuff people use is overblown

[covert lintel]

i'd argue that it's less that they don't know (many animals communicate at least partially through smell, and the smell of fear can be similar between species; it's hard to imagine that wolves don't recognize that their prey is scared), and more that they can't be expected to understand the concept of morality because the way they think is fundamentally not the same as the way we think. maybe the compsognathus knows the lizard is scared, but what can we expect it to do with that information? lil guy's gotta eat

[elfin pulsar]

Orcas just like us that’s why theyre awesome

[clever sable]

Cold blooded cannot be applied to animals because the majority of animals don't possess the level of intelligence to know what they are doing causes harm, this is the same reason why people with mental disorders usually get sent to a mental institution instead of prison when they commit a crime because they cannot comprehend what they are doing

[ancient crystal]

Launching seals in the air, not to eat them but to watch them splat against ice for one.

[chilly knot]

Orcas killing for sport is based

[frozen basin]

yes

[heady thunder]

Animals do know what they are doing, they know the signs their prey give when in distress and hurt, they know that ripping the other guy in half will kill it, the fact that they dont care cos they have to eat at the end of the day doesnt make them less cold blooded, it just makes not evil.

[clever sable]

There is a difference between simply not caring you killed something and physically not being able to know that what your doing is bad

[light osprey]

Orca’s supposed sadistic behaviour must have been exaggerated.

[frozen basin]

It absolutely was blown out of proportion

[covert lintel]

see, there's also a difference between knowing you're hurting/causing fear to something, and knowing that doing so is bad. the first is just the ability to comprehend the body language/smells/Existence As A Living Being of other organisms, the second is morality (which is not a common concept among animals)

[heady thunder]

But, its not bad tho? They gotta eat. Its just cold blooded, like the lion killing the other lions cubs so he can have its own, its not bad for them, and thats all that matters in nature.

[sour pelican]

Chickens will cannibalize each other when under lots of stress

[clever sable]

Being cold blooded would imply that what your doing is needless and that even though you know what your doing is gonna cause immense pain and still not caring, killing something for survival is not cold blooded because it's required, they would die without doing it

[elfin pulsar]

Hamsters looking at their extra newborns after a stressful day 😋

[light osprey]

Yummy

[frozen basin]

the meal

[jagged trellis]

to be fair those are both domestic animals as examples but yeah..... otters when see literally anything smaller than them

[heady thunder]

It doesnt, it just means emotionless, but were going in circles. Cold blooded can be attributed to a soldier killing other people in a war to survive.

[clever sable]

It's like saying a human hunting a deer so you don't not literally starve is cold blooded

[sour pelican]

Hippos will kill and or maim anything they find even a little annoying. If anything the larger the herbivore the more dangerous it might be. Imagine if the sauropods were like hippos. It would change everything.

[covert lintel]

honestly i feel like "this doesn't fit the exact definition of cold-blooded" is a less helpful way to frame this than than "cold-blooded is an anthropomorphizing way to look at things because of its strong association with human murderers (and as a result exaggerated documentaries)"

[clever sable]

Not hesitating to kill something for survival and being cold blooded is not the same thing

[light osprey]

Feel like we would’ve found some evidence of animals being crushed or something along the lines of that

[elfin pulsar]

Wild hamsters exist

[covert lintel]

yes, in fact, domesticated hamsters do not exist

[sour pelican]

True but also if we look at nature today we could find similarities

[light osprey]

Similarities in what.

[jagged trellis]

i'm aware same can be said for chickens seeing jungle fowl, also there goes a good year and a half of info of the hamsters for me

[sour pelican]

To ancient social groups. Should have specified

[clever sable]

Dinosaurs probably were not very social animals

[covert lintel]

hadrosaurs

[jagged trellis]

i mean they most certainly would've had variety so id just base em off of: yes, some solo, some pairs, some family groups, some mobs, some mega groups, some boy bands, ect

[light osprey]

Sociality is finicky.

[sour pelican]

Very

[covert lintel]

yeah we can't really take a whole massive clade of animals and go "these were all social" or "these were all solitary", because even species in the same genus can vary (like panthera leo being social vs basically every other species in panthera being mostly solitary)

[tough parcel]

I love social dinosaurs, I love social dinosaurs!!!!

[light osprey]

I see some of the smaller genera assumed to be social being significantly less social than mainstream media depictions had people believing.

[clever sable]

Lmao I meant to write theropods

[tough parcel]

We have multiple theropod bonebeds indicating some form of social behavior though?

[covert lintel]

still not really based in solid evidence, avian dinosaurs alone cover the full range between solitary and social

[tough isle]

Some may have hung out around each other but they weren’t really coordinated groups at all

[covert lintel]

[citation needed] (by which i mean, there is literally no reason to assume that)

[light osprey]

I think we differentiate those forms of interaction on premise.

[tough isle]

Think less wolf and more Komodo dragon or gator

[light osprey]

We don’t really know though

[jagged trellis]

we still don't know that is the thing, they could be more effective than chirping dogs or went solo despite all reason, some could've been like squirrels being alone but lending a helping hand, even through some barriers, which is why id say the best answer is yes, esp seeing the variety and amount of em

[light osprey]

Probably the same amount of sociality and cooperation variation that we see today. We shouldn’t go willy nilly assuming a condition to appear in every genus regardless.

[tough isle]

Pretty much all modern day archosaurs aren’t pack hunters. They hangout in groups yes but they don’t usually stage coordinated attacks on prey

[light osprey]

We see some pretty good cooperative hunting in birds.

[covert lintel]

you're aware that modern archosaurs hold different niches to the majority of non-avian dinosaurs, yes? like, birds and crocodiles don't have the same ecological niches as a tyrannosaurus, so we shouldn't be relying on either to judge whether tyrannosaurus could've been social

[sour pelican]

could be for mating like some snakes do

[tough isle]

Not much that I’ve heard of. Only instance I can think of is harris hawks

[tough parcel]

Damn, like 4 different tyrannosaur genus' got buried while mating, this is SO sad guys

[tough isle]

But non avian dinosaurs didn’t posses the cognitive abilities that many pack hunting animals nowadays do. However you do have things like Komodo dragons and sharks that join up in unorganized gangs to hunt prey

[jagged trellis]

i mean they both have different niches by a long shot with non avians having a main stay with so much while modern birds being mostly aerial and crocodilians being.....bitey logs, also even then there are still fair bit of stuff who do it today

[tough parcel]

Crocodilians have been observed truly pack hunting (iirc Cuban crocodiles were observed distracting their keepers while others snuck in from behind, luckily they were caught and the keepers were changed out to avoid any lasting incidents)

Then you have Nile crocodiles that loosely work cooperatively during mass migration feedings

[tough isle]

Yes the uncoordinated groups is what I’m referring too. They likely did do that like

[tough parcel]

But there is evidence of more

[light osprey]

I could see a lot the larger genera being solitary. Although that’s also conditional because a lot of big carcharodontosaurids lived with big prey

[jagged trellis]

also you do realize we don't have any way of telling that beyond a basic brain size and shape (which doesn't have much to do with it anyways) also niche moment

[covert lintel]

1: animal cognition is hard to gauge even in extant species and we're still finding out that they're much more intelligent than previously thought, it's very bold of you to assume that we know enough about the cognition of extinct theropods that we can conclude that none of them were coordinated pack hunters
2: since you mentioned fish, i would like to remind everyone that there is a species of fish that's capable of coordinated hunting with entirely different species, even developing body language to communicate with those fish that it wants to hunt and that it's seen prey

[light osprey]

But also. Let’s not get ahead assuming everything is a cooperative hunter. It goes both ways in nature

[jagged trellis]

about the sociality of ancient archosaurs, which if ima be real the simple answer is yes

[tough isle]

But highly doubt most dinosaurs were as coordinated as animals like lions or chimps

[light osprey]

There is no simple answer

[stiff osprey]

Chimps especially are a massive exception among animals so yeah, I doubt even the smartest dinosaur has sociality similar to chimps

Lions would be more plausible

[covert lintel]

those are two vastly different types of intelligence you just provided there

[jagged trellis]

those both work differently and think differently, a lion isn't built for a tool use as much and a chimp isn't as built for grass stealth, esp seeing how intelligence isn't really a line, moreso a web: intelligent in W H A T

[light osprey]

Sociality of predators also probably is determined be ecological pressures. If something is big enough within its environment it might not resort to that condition.

[tough isle]

There is also the question of which dinosaurs would need to hunt in groups given their size and the size of the other animals in the area

[cloud dagger]

I kinda want to think bigger theropods were most likely lone hunters or hunting with a mating partner. But i assume since they were so big, reaching sexual and/or bone maturity took years so until then they could have been joining a local boyband or girl gang to hunt together which could have been easier for young animals to survive

[jagged trellis]

isn't it like 19 years for a rex to mature or something, so sounds like a decent guess

[chilly knot]

Yea it was similar to a human

[covert lintel]

btw if anyone wants more info on the fish i mentioned, here's the study: https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2781

it's relevant to this in that it provides a """simple""" animal that's capable of complex coordinated hunting, but also generally pretty important in the field of animal cognition because it suggests that at least one species of fish understands that other animals A: may not know everything the fish knows, B: are not always present and may not always see the fish, C: will react to the fish communicating information if they can see it, and D: can benefit the fish with that reaction, which is neat as fish have for a while been unjustly regarded as less intelligent than most other vertebrates

[sour pelican]

Entirely possible it was a mating ground for different species who would go on their way at different times of the year.

[jagged trellis]

common Moray Eel and Grouper W

[light osprey]

But also, don’t discount smaller species of theropod carnivores being solitary as well.

[tough parcel]

The issue is, all 4+ (I forget if there's more) are separated by millions of years and in one case, different continents so having it all be death via mating season is weird

[tough isle]

Yes afaik deinonychus is the only dromaeosaur with evidence of pack hunting behaviour

[chilly knot]

Nah

[covert lintel]

i mean. yeah. just because it's possible for some theropods to be social coordinated hunters doesn't mean all of 'em would've been, solitary animals are pretty common at all sizes

[jagged trellis]

i mean yeah i don't think anyone is, the thing is its prolly Y E S, so doesn't mean to discount either, both solo AND groupings of various styles

[sour pelican]

I'm very wrong.

[light osprey]

But saying Y E S literally is by definition lacking nuance. Sociality should be observed case by case.

[tough isle]

I think prehistoric planet explained this topic the best saying that they would have joined forces to hunt large animals but that doesn’t necessarily mean they lived and exclusively hunted in social

[jagged trellis]

....i mean thats what it means, anyways its abit hard to do that with bones i feel like

[sour pelican]

What about allosaurus. Do we still think that it was a "land raptor"?

[tough isle]

I think it’s safe to say allosaurs were more like Komodo dragons or Nile crocodiles when it came to that

[light osprey]

Do we have evidence any of these theropods predated on adult mega-sauropods? 🤔

[elfin pulsar]

What..?

[tough isle]

Think of like the scene on the salt flats in the Ballad of Big Al

[jagged trellis]

so sometimes solo, sometimes mobs and sometimes consistent groups

[chilly knot]

We have no real evidence for both of that

[tough isle]

Yea but for the most part just mobs and solo because they wouldn’t need to hunt in consistent groups

[light osprey]

Why do we make the connection to Komodo Dragons? They are very distantly related to Dinosaurs.

[sour pelican]

I mean my own bias is those arms could definitely kill a smaller creature and it could possibly make any other large creature bleed out with enough patience. So it could have been a solitary predator.

[chilly knot]

Komodos are probably the best modern analogy of how allosauroids hunted

[tough isle]

They have similar behaviour to various species of crocodilian but terrestrial

[chilly knot]

There is no way to know that^

[tough isle]

Know what?

[jagged trellis]

watch allo live like a butcher bird or something just because even against its own build, oh dear do i hear boss music

[bright veldt]

Ontogenetic Niche partitioning like this was probably common amongst theropods. Rex is just the best known case.

[chilly knot]

That allosaurus (or any theropod) behaved similar to crocodylians

[tough isle]

They’re closely related so it would make sense

[elfin pulsar]

Lol what

[light osprey]

Why would Dinosaurs exhibit behaviours in crocodilians? Much less toxicofera?

[bright veldt]

I find it more likely that young tyrannosaurus stayed in their parent’s territory until they got large, and while they may occasionally have protection they probably looked after themselves past a certain size, especially since they probably weren’t threatened by other predators much past 4-5 meters or so

[light osprey]

Yeah not a lot of big theropods in North America during that time

[chilly knot]

I wouldn't call their relation close and no

[tough isle]

You just said their hunting behaviour may have been similar to Komodo dragons which behave similarly to crocodilians

[bright veldt]

They are not that similar tbh

[stoic tinsel]

komodo dragon behavior is not very similar to crocodilians

[light osprey]

Best connection to make is to birds. And when they don’t exhibit similar niches in the extant world, we find the closest mammal, and make the loose connections we may on behaviours.

[bright veldt]

Crocodile sociality isn’t completely understood, but it is known to be very complex and vary between species. Komodo dragons meanwhile largely exclusively look after themselves and would probably be a lot more solitary if islandic conditions didn’t force the population into such densities.

[light osprey]

I’d reckon the theropods like Nanuqsaurus we’re probably cooperatively hunting, seeing as they’re an apex who’s noticeably smaller that the largest surrounding fauna.

[tough isle]

The best you can say is dinosaurs behaved like dinosaurs

[bright veldt]

Nanuqsaurus was still the largest predator in its habitat by a country mile. At 2 tons or so, with the next largest carnivores being 100 kg troodontids.

[light osprey]

Yeah that’s what I said…

[bright veldt]

There was larger prey but that’s not exactly abnormal in most ecosystems.

[stoic tinsel]

even then they were still a similar size to pachyrhinosaurus with edmontosaurus being not much bigger

[chilly knot]

I haven't seen crocodylians ripping out flesh chunks out of their prey and then patiently wait for it bleed out as their usual hunting method. They mostly rely on brute force to kill their prey

[light osprey]

I thought Annectens was the species in prince creek?

[tough isle]

Yes the only predators in the North American arctic at the time would’ve been really nanuqsaurus and like latenavenatrix or similar troodontids and dromaeosaurs

[bright veldt]

Oh no edmontosaurus even back then were huge next to most fauna they coexisted with, but they were always the largest animals throughout their range anyways.

[stoic tinsel]

no regalis

[elfin pulsar]

Isn’t laten not a thing anymore or smthn like that

[light osprey]

Troodontids go brr.

[bright veldt]

Regalis is smaller than annectans but they still got to like 12 meters and 7+ tons.

[stoic tinsel]

yeah laten got absorbed into steno

[tough isle]

I thought troodon got split into stenonychasaurus and latenavenatrix

[bright veldt]

It did, then laten was thrown out, so everything’s steno now.

[stoic tinsel]

average regalis is still somewhere close to 4 or so tonnes tho iirc

[white matrix]

What’s steno’s full name

[tough isle]

So laten is just a species of stenon yes?

[bright veldt]

Stenonychosaurus. Troodon and laten aren’t a thing no more.

[stoic tinsel]

no nothing at all remains of laten its all just stenonychosaurus inequalis

[tough isle]

I can’t find anything about laten not being valid anymore though

[elfin pulsar]

Laten is gone, reduced to atoms

[light osprey]

Even then, nanuqsaurus on average being two tons lighter than the largest fauna seems like a pressure for them to adopt some sort of cooperative hunting condition.

[cloud dagger]

If troodon got split up to two, then merged into one again why not to keep the old name troodon lol

[bright veldt]

https://cdnsciencepub.com/doi/10.1139/cjes-2020-0145

[stoic tinsel]

because of how taxonomic law works

[tough isle]

Troodon is only known from some teeth which isn’t enough to make something a species

[cloud dagger]

Well that explains

[stoic tinsel]

despite pectinodon still existing also being a tooth taxon

[bright veldt]

Troodon isn’t kept because Troodon was named on the basis of a fraction of a tooth, with basically any passing resembling troodontid lumped into it. It’s only when the taxon that got wastebasketted into it were taken apart and looked at closer did they realize “Oh, the foundation of this genus is garbage”. Ceratops and Titanosaurus, the two now-dead namesakes for ceratopsids and titanosaurs, got a similar backstory.

[light osprey]

The name troodon became widely considered a dubious genus name correct?

[tough isle]

Generally you can’t name a species of a few small fragments or footprints

[light osprey]

A lot of valid genera were named on fragmentary remains.

[tough isle]

But I mean very fragmentary like with troodon

[stoic tinsel]

theres a big difference tho between a fragment of a tooth and a few vertebra

[cloud dagger]

I found a lot of species that are named after founding just an eggshell or footprint when i was reading about coelurosaurs but didn’t get to dromaeosaurs yet

[light osprey]

Oh yeah. Part of a tooth becoming a wastebasket taxon is downright silly 😜

[bright veldt]

It depends less on pure fragmentedness and more on if it’s “diagnostic” aka unique enough to tell apart from relatives. Tooth taxon, or genera whose sole representation is teeth, are notoriously bad in dinosaurs because, as an example, all troodontid teeth look the same. So how would somebody tell what they found was Troodon specifically? You can’t.

[tough isle]

And you have “grillator” which is only known from a set of footprints

[neat drum]

most dinosaur genera are based on incredibly fragmentary remains, tooth taxon is the issue(naming a genus based on partial or singular teeth which generally are NOT diagnostic)

footprints and cropolites have their own naming conventions as they are considered their own thingy. very, very rarely will a trace fossil like a footprint be attributed to a named species

[light osprey]

But if we were to find a discernible genus fossil, could the nomenclature Troodon be reused for said genus?

[bright veldt]

How would you find that? The holotype, which is what the name is founded on and all remains are compared to to see if they’re the same thing, is a tooth fragment.

[tough isle]

My father used to be a palaeontologist a number of years ago back and he found part of a hadrosaur leg bone but it was fragmentary enough that they couldn’t name or identify what it was

[neat drum]

like, if we got a giant theropod footprint from hell creek, we would not call it a tyrannosaurus rex footprint, despite to our knowledge rex being the only giant theropod

instead we'd call it something like Ichnotyrannus nublarensis or something

[bright veldt]

In literature anyway. Most dub footprints more casually based on what we know of the local ecosystem.

[light osprey]

Whatever happened to the Mongolian Titan?

[neat drum]

yeah common sense may say its a tyrannosaurus rex footprint but the naming conventions go brrr

[white matrix]

I ate it

[tough isle]

I have part of a hadrosaur tail vertebrae in my basement that couldn’t be identified

[light osprey]

That’s actually my vertebrae could you put that back in me

[tough isle]

Sorry man the Royal Tyrell Museum said my dad could keep it

[light osprey]

I thought it was a titanosauria?

[neat drum]

talking about my example

[tough isle]

If I could find the vertebrae I’d send a picture

[light osprey]

Oh

[tough isle]

I am proud to say I live in the same province that the largest tyrannosaurus so far was found in

[clever sable]

Troodon isn't a valid genus anymore

[rich onyx]

IIRC, wasn’t the issue that paleontologists basically threw any non-dromaeosaurid paravian remains they found at that site into Troodon without actually nothing to try and distinguish them?

[bright veldt]

Yep. Some wastebasket taxon manage to survive being fixed despite this due to some distinguishable remains they had off the rip (Megalosaurus, Apatosaurus), while others don’t (Troodon, Ceratops, Titanosaurus)

[clever sable]

Bronto beat the allegations of being invalid as well

[light oxide]

Everyone when Brontosaurus is discovered to be valid again:

https://tenor.com/view/loki-thor-i-cant-believe-youre-alive-gif-25788941

[tough isle]

It’s been valid for like 8 years

[clever sable]

Even though it's not new news it's still hilarious because it was probably one of the least likely things to be proven valid, it was the famous thing that at the time we thought didn't exist, in every single children's book about dinosaurs there would be a section dedicated to how bronto was fake

[tough isle]

I read this educational dinosaur comic published in 2015 and it had a bit about brontosaurus being invalid but at the end of the comic they included a bit about how when the comic was in editing it got re-validated

[keen blade]

I have a question

O I just got it answered Tysm tho!

[pearl briar]

any updates from dakota's validity?
is it a valid species/chimaeric?

[neat drum]

technically its still valid, but its validity has been questioned

[trim crag]

Wasn't it like disputed because one of the bones was a turtle bone

[cinder jewel]

Yeah there was a turtle bone mixed in. Iirc there's still enough material to show that Dakotaraptor is likely valid, but it's been a while since I looked into it.

[white matrix]

Nah it was a missed shot that boiled when you froze it in the microwave

[bright veldt]

It’s lack of validity isn’t because of being chimeric with a turtle (this was addressed rather quickly in literature), and more that it’s “discoverer” is an absolutely horrible person that is known to fabricate his finds and refuse for anyone else to see his data and specimens, almost like they don’t exist or something.

Dakotaraptor, for now, has no evidence for it actually existing in the first place.

[compact leaf]

there is still evidence of a big dromaeosaurid in hell creek it’s just tricky to tell what it actually is, but yeah the “discovery” of dakotaraptor isn’t exactly trustworthy

[ancient crystal]

So does that mean that Dakotaraptor as a name is off the table? Or if another previously undescribed dromeosaur is found in Dakota, could it take the name?

[compact leaf]

it kind of depends on whether or not the original material is actually valid, unfortunately nobody is allowed to currently study it afaik

[neat drum]

If someone else can study the holotype and determine the holotype is from hell creek and not elsewhere, then dakotaraptor remains valid

Otherwise the hell creek giant dromie will be assigned a new name if found to not be acheroraptor

[bright veldt]

Yeah there’s a real possibility it might just be a large archeroraptor if the specimen is actually real, given that the animal’s supposed size has been up to scrutiny. Originally claimed to be Utahraptor size but that held up like a really bad jenga tower, with some recent estimates making it the size of a large deinonychus.

It’s really weird and frustrating in general.

[stiff osprey]

it upsets me greatly that no one can scale the damn thing because the definitely dromaeosaur elements are teeth and caudal vertebrae, and even those seem to have dubious measurements

[light oxide]

Hmm, it could very well just be Anzu again (the Dakotaraptor chimera situation).

[tranquil quartz]

Quick question paleo chat i saw these website selling this and just wanted to know if these are real teeth

[stiff osprey]

Probably real, spino teeth are a common find in north Africa

[tranquil quartz]

Oh, I thought spinosaurus material as a whole was quite rare

[light osprey]

Nah.

[tranquil quartz]

Im assuming other material from the other spinosaurids is rare tho

[stiff osprey]

Teeth are pretty much the only common part, there's a handful of vertebrae too but any kind of bone is much rarer

[chilly knot]

Dang only 30€

[tranquil quartz]

Weird tho I visited their shop and they had a nanotyrannus tooth for 1500€ ? even though its invalid

[glad carbon]

Ikr

[heady thunder]

Baby Rex tooth

[tranquil quartz]

Rex teeth are that expensive?

[ocean drum]

yeah they actually are

[stiff osprey]

juveniles more so, there's much more adult rexes out there than juveniles

[heady thunder]

Rex poop for 200 million $

[tranquil quartz]

It surprised me how a literal tiny rex tooth was more expensive than an entire progathodon jaw which was 400€

[heady thunder]

The reason is simple, Progathodon, just isnt the Rex.

[light osprey]

Probably a smaller species as well.

[tranquil quartz]

Its better, Marine Derpy Lizard is better than fat overweight jaw monster

[heady thunder]

The free market clearly doesnt agree with that.

[stiff osprey]

I don't know the average mosasaur jaw price, but if they're selling a whole jaw, it's about 300x more likely to be fake than the teeth

[tranquil quartz]

I mean what really got to me was that I didnt have enough to afford a cave bear 🍆 bone ffs 😢😢😢 . Would of been a fine addition to my collection

[heady thunder]

[tranquil quartz]

For comparative and research purposes of course…

[ocean drum]

💀

[cinder jewel]

There's a gem and rock shop near me with a complete cave bear fossil for sale. It's been there for years for like $40,000. No idea how much of it is authentic, but it's cool to look at every time I pop in there

[tranquil quartz]

The shop I visited had an Allosaurus skull cast on sale and it so mfing expensive omd 😫😫

[heady thunder]

Allo skull? That must be 2k+ easy

[rich onyx]

And TIL that Robert DePalma exists

[novel atlas]

https://twitter.com/MF_gadelha/status/1655295104846901250?t=5yU8f_dgiATpf31RmBnxxg&s=19

MF. Gadelha (@MF_gadelha)

Ubirajara will return to Brazil in june, this is a concept i made for @hugocafasso while ago

Likes

817

Retweets

154

Twitter · May 7, 2023, 7:34 PM

[tranquil quartz]

Is there any other carchardontosaurids with a hump like Concavenator?

[magic pelican]

rn current dunk is rlly fd up

[ancient crystal]

That great white illustration is equally fd up

[glad carbon]

I was gonna say aren’t their head a lil more robust?

[devout sage]

Are there stronger things than a Trike except like Argentino etc. Maybe a Ankylo?

[tranquil quartz]

Flesh Eating Bacteria

[ancient crystal]

Yeah, pectoral fins and top tail fin look a little long as well.

[devout sage]

You is NOT a surgeon 🗣️🚫⁉️

[tranquil quartz]

Bros salty that flesh eating bacteria solos Triceratops Horridus

[devout sage]

Fr

[tranquil quartz]

On a serious note tons of things would probably stronger in brute strength than a trike such as a variety of sauropods and large megatheropods, some of the largest hadrosaurs such as Edmonto would probably be stronger as well. But I doubt any of them would be able to just ignore damage sustained from the two death spears that Triceratops has attached to its head.

[devout sage]

Ok, ty

[jagged trellis]

only other mega herbivores and like...2 megatheropods maybe( tbh most are in a similar range save mid-large sauropods and ankylosaurids), the water is a different story

[tranquil quartz]

I’d say Mapu, Giga and Rex have the most even chance of beating a Trike. Maybe even Tyrannotitan as well but probably not

[bright veldt]

Altispinax

[tranquil quartz]

Knew there was another one thanks! Also I found this depiction of Eocarcharia with a hump. Inaccurate Im assuming.

[bright veldt]

It was proposed for a while but not likely. This is better. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/897994654916689961/899896712594849812/Eocarcharia.png

[bright veldt]

Oh there’s a newer one. Cool!

[white matrix]

If icthyovenator was a carnosaur

[bright veldt]

Spinosaurs are carnosaurs.

[ocean shell]

So my professor is having me reassemble these humorous(?) bones but he couldn’t quite remember the name of the dinosaur. It was something like “Compadasaurus” but that isn’t a thing so I was wondering if anyone could take a guess at dinosaurs with similar names

[tough parcel]

Location/formation/time?

[ocean shell]

I could ask him

[ocean shell]

Morrison Formation, Jurassic

[tough parcel]

Ah then perhaps Camptosaurus? Closest sounding name to what you have

[ocean shell]

Yes that’s it! He just confirmed. Thank you!

[rich onyx]

Yeah, Campto was going to be my guess as well

[chilly knot]

Waii that version has the dirt spot on the jugal

My pencil slipped

[tough parcel]

Should probably switch it out in KoI lol

[white matrix]

Should've been more specific a carcharodontosaur

[bright veldt]

The dip in these carchar skeletals bother me, cause wtf suggests that it’d actually be visible in life.

[light osprey]

This tbh.

[rich onyx]

I'll take "Shrink-wrapping" for $500, Alex

[woeful falcon]

Something something soft tissue follows the spine closely for them something I don't remember the specifics and I am too busy to find the answer right now

[stiff osprey]

yeah, there are no indicators of massive amounts of soft tissue that would fill in that portion.

Unless you subscribe to camel humped carcharodontosaur theory, then you should be making the dip be a raised mound instead. But speculative fat deposits aren't usually for the realm of skeletal art

[light osprey]

So… no amount of any tissue would smooth out that portion of the back?

[tough parcel]

It would, but fatty deposits would likely be large (because it's storing fat) and thus probably be a bit lumpier

[stiff osprey]

no musculature attaches there, and it's hardly likely that it had a dewlap of rigid skin standing up on the hip, so your best bet would be fat

[dull lodge]

Does anybody know what the biggest pliosaur was

[chilly knot]

Sachicasaurus

[rich onyx]

Oh that's why that's the one that got a mod lol

[scenic flame]

https://twitter.com/AppleTV/status/1654560413999329281?t=0cXreHlPReABGKlawiWPyQ&s=19

Apple TV (@AppleTV)

New dinosaurs. New habitats. New season. #PrehistoricPlanet Season 2 streaming May 22 on @AppleTVPlus

Twitter · May 5, 2023, 6:55 PM

[light osprey]

I could’ve sworn there was a clip of Majungasaurus recently released?

[stiff osprey]

there was a half second clip of it meeting Simosuchus, or it might've been the majung and simosuchus clip spliced together

[light osprey]

Found it

[stiff osprey]

oh it was a whole two seconds, impressive
I like that the Simosuchus are being portrayed like the Diictodon in WWM

[ocean brook]

Bruh majunga is so long

[clever sable]

Well in terms of all living creatures several would have been stronger than trike, in dinosaurs other than sauropods I can't really think of many except maybe anky and maybe shantung

[fluid jolt]

not technically paleo but y’all might appreciate it anyways.phylogenetic spread from Smithsonian natural history visual guide, illustrates how birds are reptiles while also setting aside amphibians as its own branch(clade?)

[jagged trellis]

humor

[pearl briar]

yoooo it's eocarcha with it's idol

uhhhh how big meg can get????
https://youtu.be/sCW0djw_cg4

[elfin pulsar]

Idk the dimensions but ik mega is estimated at the second largest animal ever, only behind the blue whale iirc

[woeful falcon]

Never mind the size, how about it casually beaching itself to eat an animal that went extinct well before Megalodon existed lol

[pearl briar]

also the trailer depict them doing "Hunt in Pack"
even though meg is (likely) such a soliter shark

why are they're do with that hunt in pack metodes
hunting livyatan?
nah bro is smaller than meg 😭 https://twitter.com/FabioAleRomero/status/1596707421774569473?t=O-COpkyvhpoPrnM0ZndJ2g&s=19

Fabio Alejandro (@FabioAleRomero)

And of course the needed comparison size with its eternal marine foe, the big head shark, which seems that Pisco were around.
Probably Livyatan evaded large Otodus bulls in order to avoid lethal confrontation or just gathered in groups like modern cetaceans.

Likes

130

Twitter · Nov 27, 2022, 3:28 AM

[storm heron]

Ohohohohoho, Majungasaurus and another Abelisaurid, nooiiice

[storm heron]

No way, apparently that other Abelisaurid is Rajasaurus . . . . this is just music to my ears.

[zealous wedge]

I can’t find that clip on YouTube can you give me a link to the teaser

[wide glen]

can we rule out scorpiovenator yet idk i havent watched the clip im trynna sound smart

[storm heron]

Its possible since they did not show every animal that will be shown in the . . . . . show

[supple crow]

HAHHAAHAHAHHA WTF

Poseidon will estimate

[fluid jolt]

Then maybe don’t enter the paleontology chat?? 😭😭
Also there’s nothing even explicitly evolutionary in that tree. Just displaying how humans interpret the different animals on earth

[cinder jewel]

I want to know what the little salamander dog things are supposed to be. They're cute

[pearl briar]

what cause the extinction of meg 3.6 mya?

[viscid surge]

Global cooling, baleen whales were able to cope with the cooler temperatures and moved to higher latitudes, while megalodon starved in the warmer regions. Megalodon preyed on large whale species, and were too big to hunt dolphins, fish and other things. That’s the main theory anyway

[bright veldt]

The current theory is that the joining of North and South America dramatically affected the ocean currents, and resulted in high plankton dieoffs that caused a great decline in baleen whale diversity and populations. This dramatic decrease in food supply being what did it in. Megalodon itself had a really wide distribution and was rather comfortable in cooler waters, with teeth being as far North as the British Isles and as far south as New Zealand.

[cinder jewel]

It is interesting that it was enough to completely kill off megalodon rather than just drop the population. Baleen whales survived in relatively high populations right up until we realized that we could light lamps with them. Even if the shifting ocean reduced diversity, the remaining whales might've been able to support a smaller megalodon population. I wonder what actually pushed them over the edge entirely.

[tough parcel]

I did

[static lantern]

Can u undo that

[tough parcel]

No my hubris led to their downfall and I live with it every day

Just like how I killed the dinosaurs…

[tiny holly]

The availability of food can have a huge impact, it doesnt need to disappear completely for the animal that eats it to go extinct. It may be that particular whales they primarily predated on went extinct and without them, the other whales werent enough to sustain high enough populations with enough genetic diversity to avoid extinction

If i had to guess it might have thinned out their population enough that they rarely met, and when they did they mightve felt more inclined to compete than mate because of food availability. Its not like they comprehend their whole species going extinct, they only care about their own survival

[bright veldt]

Not quite true. Baleen whale populations bounced back rather quickly when the ice ages started and plankton exploded due to the colder water at the poles, but initially they declined a good deal in a lot of places.

You can thank a good portion of baleen whales becoming huge due to their being no predator to stop them for about 2 million years, combined with the new food surplus.

[tiny holly]

Thankyou meg for going extinct, without that we might not be lucky enough to live at the same time as the largest animal to have ever lived 😌

Honestly the fact other animals cant comprehend extinction, let alone the extinction of their own species, makes endlings that much more depressing. Being the last of your kind and having no idea, attempting to live your whole life as if you arent the last.

[west drum]

remember that poor bird that tried to call out.. but he was the last of his species :( god that would’ve been hard with any animal

[tiny holly]

its pretty sad when you think about it from the perspective of a social animal trying to find others of its kind, but I think there's something uniquely lonely about what it must be like for a non-social animal. The fact they could go their whole life and never think something is amiss.

[glad carbon]

Reminds me of that scene in Jurassic park

[wary junco]

Skorpiovenator was extinct for about ~30 Ma by the time PP is set, so yeah we can probably rule it out (plus the animal in question has already been confirmed as Rajasaurus)

[bright veldt]

It’s been known as rajasaurus before PP2 was even confirmed to exist lol

[pearl briar]

yeah they even didn't make it to maastrichtian

[wary junco]

Yeah Rajasaurus, Isisaurus and Pachycephalosaurus were all known as the "cut" animals from S1 before S2 was eventually confirmed

[amber dune]

Lowkey just did a presentation on Ceratosaurus to my class and some mf said dinosaur aren’t real

[ancient crystal]

Fossilize them

[cinder jewel]

First of all, excellent dinosaur choice. Secondly, that's person makes me sad and angry all at once

[amber dune]

Thank you but yeha it’s sad honestly dinosaurs play a part of history

[amber dune]

Your so real for this

[pearl briar]

"dinosaur aren't real"
ok then let him/her explain what is this???
the giant human that were in a bible???

[amber dune]

I hear they say something about the Bible (probably used it as an excuse) to real history of dinosaurs I even had pictures of fossil and accurate photos and they still deny it smh

[covert lintel]

either Fake, Dragons, or some secret third thing

[amber dune]

Wdym

[covert lintel]

i am genuinely not sure how to clarify this

[arctic turtle]

Question, was latenavenitrix a dromeosaur?

[tough parcel]

Troodontid

[arctic turtle]

So what’s the difference?

[stiff osprey]

troodontids generally have smaller teeth, longer necks and legs, smaller toe claws and wings, and larger eyes

[bright veldt]

Troodontids and dromaeosaurs are very closely related, next to birds (some studies place troodontids closer to birds then raptors, and vice versa it’s complicated). Troodontids trend more towards generalistic diets and lithe body frames while dromaeosaurs are more robust and tend to be more obligate macropredators, but it varies.

[arctic turtle]

So if I’m drawing a laten should I make it “skinny”

[stoic tinsel]

Also latenivenatrix doesn't exist anymore

[light osprey]

Stenonychosaurus now?

[bright veldt]

Yes

[arctic turtle]

Why is that? Can someone explain

[stoic tinsel]

Little skeletal difference to stenonychosaurus

[bright veldt]

It’s just that more recent studies showed that there isn’t anything to differentiate it from steno, so they’re actually one and the same. Steno was named first so that’s the name that sticks.

[light osprey]

Real question is T formosus actually considered invalid yet?

[stoic tinsel]

It's been invalid for more than half a decade

[bright veldt]

Troodon hasn’t been a thing since 2017

[light osprey]

I thought it was just considered dubious.

[arctic turtle]

Why isn’t troodon real?

[light oxide]

Because it was all based on just a tooth.

[stoic tinsel]

Because troodon was described from a fragment of a tooth

[bright veldt]

When it comes to how we discuss these animals, dubious still isn’t worth treating as real. As for why, it’s a long story with new vernacular so lemme explain.

[light osprey]

So the nomen dubium nomenclature is essentially what determines a former genus as invalid?

[arctic turtle]

So is laten completely debunked or is it kinda a hot topic

[tough parcel]

Completely deleted

[bright veldt]

Every genus/species of dinosaur ever created has what is called a holotype, which is the specimen that said taxon is founded on, and what every following specimen is compared to in order to see if the new material is more of that species or not. Here’s where the issue is. The holotype of Troodon is a fragment of a tooth. That is a serious problem when troodontid teeth (and most dinosaurs for that matter) are extremely similar across close relatives, so for a while, Troodon was this wastebasket taxon where any North American troodontid from the late Cretaceous is thrown into it. That has been getting remedied the past few decades, and nowadays, Troodon is discarded all together. Cause here’s the thing. The name of a species is only as valid as the holotype it’s named on, and when the holotype has absolutely nothing unique about it, it becomes useless scientifically.

[light osprey]

So what do we attribute that original material to? Is it just “Troodontid indeterminate”?

[bright veldt]

The fragment of a tooth still counts as “Troodon” but literally everything else is under Stenonychosaurus now

[arctic turtle]

So why did they throw out the name troodon and not keep the name for the actual “Troodon”

[cloud dagger]

I just asked the same thing yesterday lol

[bright veldt]

Cause the holotype is just a fragment of a tooth with no unique characteristics. How can you possibly attribute any other material to Troodon when every troodontid tooth looks the same? You can’t.

[arctic turtle]

Yeah but your saying that the Stenonycosaurus is the closest thing to troodon so why didn’t the name change? Also so how many “Troodontids” are there if they keep changing

[woeful falcon]

They're sort of stuck with it because its an undiagnostic tooth

[bright veldt]

I’m confused as to what you’re trying to say exactly. Stenonychosaurus actually has a holotype that has unique characteristics, so we can tell what it is from relatives. Therefore it’s the better name to use for the animal. Or, rather, it’s a taxon that actually does what a holotype is supposed to do so it’s usable.

[arctic turtle]

It’s kinda confusing for me that’s why I’m not necessarily asking the proper question. However I am wondering how many “Troodontids” are there if they keep changing? Also what was the Troodontid that was in Prehistoric Planet

[covert lintel]

i'm of the opinion that if someone finds and describes material that could be the holotype of a new genus but it's so fragmentary that it's highly unlikely anything can be reliably assigned to that genus, they should simply not make it a holotype for a new genus and instead make use of a thing called patience

[woeful falcon]

I don't think all Troodontids were a part of the Troodon wastebasket, mostly Steno and Laten

[arctic turtle]

So what was this “Troodontid” in prehistoric planet supposed to be

[bright veldt]

Yeah that’s the smart thing to do but whatever scientist named Troodon 100+ years ago wasn’t thinking ahead. Also Troodon has historically been a wastebasket taxon, it just hasn’t been relevant in recent years.

[covert lintel]

pectinodon has a similar situation to troodon in terms of being Just A Tooth, although i guess time will tell if it gets similar treatment. got lucky avoiding the whole wastebasket thing though iirc