paleontology

[west solstice]

Gotcha

I’m fairly certain there is some confirmation of Ceratopsians willingly eating meat, and with Pachys it’s on the basis of dentition and a theropod body plan

Could be Red Deer to Boar

The former who consume meat on a more than incidental basis and the latter being out and omnivores

[white matrix]

Anyone got an up to date giga skull with views from different angles?

[west solstice]

Like for dichotomy

[snow python]

So now Sucho rivals Rex length wise, though its only half of Rex's weight. Not sure if that 12,4m Sucho was fully grown

[bright veldt]

Probably

[snow python]

Also same question about Baryonyx, was it a subadult or fully grown?

[little mauve]

Holotype is a subadult

[light osprey]

Estimated length is still 9 meter’s though right?

[bright veldt]

8 meters

[white matrix]

Yall ever just

[jagged trellis]

sometimes yeah

[white matrix]

[heady thunder]

My reaction to spending 4 hours growing growing a modded para just for the server to disable mods.

[trim crag]

iirc that wound was actually theorized to be inflicted by a ground sloth

Yeah agreed

I found this meme on reddit that kinda explains how I feel pretty well

[heady thunder]

Everything that can make my insides outsides is scary, it having feathers doesnt really change that.

[white matrix]

[trim crag]

Likewise, I just personally think that by appearance some inaccurate dinosaur designs are terrifying and their presence only adds onto such factors

[heady thunder]

Yeah, they look scarier cos theyre more unatural Id say.

Its like a sick person with scars and deformities charging you with an axe looks scarier then a perfectly normal one doing the same.

[stiff osprey]

it's weird that fewer people draw modern animals inaccurately (whether intentionally or by ignorance), and even fewer people complain that hairy mammals are ''not scary'' compared to feathered dinosaurs

[true urchin]

what did tylosaurus hunt/contend with?

[stiff osprey]

e v e r y t h i n g

[true urchin]

like the most noteworthy ones

[stiff osprey]

Hesperornis, Bananognmius, sharks, sea turtles, Dolichorhynchops, and other mosasaurs

[true urchin]

which other mosasaurs

[stiff osprey]

Clidastes and Platecarpus

as for its full menu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Shale

[white matrix]

Am i allowed to say ignorance for $500 and intentional for $100?

[trim crag]

People don't draw modern animals inaccurately because we know what they look like

[stiff osprey]

we know dinosaurs don't look like they do in JW but people still draw them that way because they think it looks cool

you could argue this looks pretty scary or cool, but no one draws this and calls it a german shepherd

[rose thorn]

I will

[white matrix]

What a kind pit bull

[somber knoll]

Has anyone got like facial reconstruction designs of dinosaurs where skin isn't kinda just attached to the skull, and there's like meat, flesh, maybe even fat there?

Dunno how better to explain it, but yeah

[woeful falcon]

Recent restorations of Sinosaurus and Dilophosaurus would be good for that.

[glad mason]

she’s super friendly around kids

[elfin pulsar]

Definitely named princess

[hallow spear]

They aint omnivorous

[west solstice]

Really?

[hallow spear]

are you joking

[elfin pulsar]

I thought omnivorous pachy actually has stuff behind it

[hallow spear]

no it doesnt

[sage cave]

Uh huh (I have no idea)

[hallow spear]

anyway i was going to say, They are strictly herbivorous likely doing what modern day Deer may do when lacking in certain proteins. Eat small critters for extra sustenance, whcih still classifies as a herbivore

But in no way does that make them omnivores by definition

[white matrix]

Pachy had canines, hence why omnvivore pachy theory..

[hallow spear]

Omnivore still aint happening

[sage cave]

I’m a carnivore

[west solstice]

They're already omnis in the game tho, and there's also been other evidence for them and Ceratopsians to have been more than incidentally omnivorous

Even Hadrosaurs have been found with like, shellfish in their stomachs suggesting at least supplementation

[bright veldt]

That's not omnivory though. That's just herbivores occasionally eating crap they typically don't. That's not unusual for animals of any diet.

[west solstice]

Also true

IDK, I just wanna have some omni-representation. Also love your channel and I do agree with you on most things

[light oxide]

And bark.

(Though it may have something to do with it being rotten and filled with crustaceans. But still.)

[west solstice]

True

So then Pachy being an omnivore is a flight of fantasy on the game-dev's part?

[light oxide]

And carnivores can eat plants too.

Hell, even caimans eat fruits and leaves occasionally.

[west solstice]

nah i know

[bright veldt]

It was speculation that got out of hand basically.

[light oxide]

Yeah -- blew my mind when I found out that caimans actually ate plant matter. XD

[west solstice]

A pity

Wonder if we'll get some more actual omnis in game or somethin', could be fun

[light oxide]

Honestly (hot take moment), the "metabolism" of every creatures aren't really metabolisms -- they're just diet choices.

What I would honestly like is if, depending on how much hunger drain you are willing to want, you get different benefits.

For example, say that you want a slow hunger drain. Then you can be more tanky. Or if you want a fast hunger drain, then you can be faster and more agile. That way, you can still make creatures have unique diets, while also giving them a choice as to how they want to go about their playthrough. The slower hunger drain can promote a more lazy player, with the extra tankiness helping them in fighting stuff, while a more pvp focused player can go the fast hunger drain route to fight more, and have the extra speed and agility to help out (as well as helping you move from point A to point B so that you can find more food options faster).

[woeful falcon]

I'll simplify that for you ken

Hot take: it's a video game

[west solstice]

That is...actually a cool way to think about it

IDK, I like having a mix of fantastical and realistic, y'know? Like, scientific-accuracy for diets and appearance and stuff but also allowing for some speculative fun

[rose thorn]

Pachy omnivory is like, the only ornithischian with the potential for maybe eating other bs than just plants outside of heterodontosaurs purely based off the fact they have fang like teeth. That being said, there are plenty of examples of herbivores with large teeth that don’t have meat as a large portion of their diet.

Ceratopsids, at least based off Triceratops’ isotope study, were pretty strictly herbivores

[rose thorn]

I retract the heterodontosaur part, as we apparently have isotope studies from them aligning with strict herbivory. If I had to guess, their larger teeth were either defensive/built for cutting into tougher plants. Thescelosaurus though apparently has omnivory suggested

[woeful falcon]

do we have any isotope studies that cement any dinos as true omnivores?

[light osprey]

Oviraptorians?

[scenic flame]

No

[light osprey]

Damn just speculation then

[little mauve]

Got a link to the heterodontosaur study? Can't find it

[west solstice]

Seems surprising; I’ve heard that a number of Theropods for example were omnivores

[modern temple]

Did pterosaurs actually have rounded wing tips

i also ask for azdharchids specifically

I say i say i say

[tiny holly]

Yeah i think people would be surprised by the number of ungulates that have big canines, or just generally have sharp pointy teeth 👀 has nothing to do with meat eating, they're just nasty

[tiny holly]

We don't know with 100% certainty but it's pretty likely they weren't rounded. iirc they were previously reconustructed that way because it was thought to make the wing stronger and more resiliant while flying but that's not actually necessary, their wings are strong enough as is anyway.

[rose thorn]

Somewhat rounded is fine, but it’s likely that the wing ends were pointy. The huge blunt ends were the result of too much soft tissue

[modern temple]

Aye sure

[tiny holly]

something like this, there's a vaguely round, smooth shape. but the very tip itself is still fairly pointed (art by Mark Witton, he's an excellent source on pterosaurs)

[modern temple]

I say i say you boys are very helpful individuals

[rose thorn]

https://zookeys.pensoft.net/articles.php?id=3152

[little mauve]

Tysm!

[rose thorn]

Peccaries are a great example of this, and some rhinos. Large fang like teeth are usually fight adaptations

[tiny holly]

Yep, I know in both male horses and camels (the two examples I posted) it's used in intraspecific combat, although with camels its also good for helping them handle rough and difficult to eat foods. Generally speaking if I see a herbivore with some very mean teeth I'm gonna assume its for beating each other up

[leaden vigil]

There are rhinos that fight with teeth even though they have horns?

[jagged trellis]

i mean donkeys have hard hitting hooves but will often times go in to man handle with a bite because they can, so wouldn't be too far from it id say, but i'm not much of a rhino expert so idk

[bright veldt]

Asian rhinos have tusks in their mouths, which are their primary weapons.

[leaden vigil]

Its just wild to me that something so specialized would be discarded in such a scenario, although I didn’t take into account that it could be socially fighting and not defense.

[leaden vigil]

Are they used for self defense, socially, or both?

[bright veldt]

Both

[leaden vigil]

Thats so wild.. did the wooly rhino have these tusks?

[bright veldt]

Nah. They primarily invested in horns.

[leaden vigil]

Makes sense considering how big they got lol.

[stiff osprey]

Inversely, indian rhinos having the smallest horns, using their teeth to fight makes sense

[leaden vigil]

Im just going to make a wild assumption and say african rhinos do not have this adaptation?

[bright veldt]

Yeah they don't either. Also a bit wild how violent rhinos are when fighting each other in general. Like, I think with african rhinos, 1/4 of rhinos will die from fighting other rhinos.

[jagged trellis]

also nice vid, glad i got a cameo, anyways interesting seeing how animals always don't just focus on one thing since while they will min max( R E X) still uses the other parts that have been...left out more shall we say

[stiff osprey]

I guess it's because adults very rarely die from predators, so the death toll has to go to something

[bright veldt]

True, but I'm pretty sure even hippos and elephants don't have that high a tally.

[leaden vigil]

They are generally pretty skittish towards other animals no? Strangely as they are probably the 3rd most powerful animals in their environment. That mixed with what you said about them killing each other frequently it makes me think about their intelligence.

[jagged trellis]

i mean they are more skittish than folks make em out to be but will most certainly be ready to deal with stuff

[bright veldt]

Yeah I did some digging and hippos and elephants by comparison don't even come close. With elephants, the primary causes of death are predators when young and starvation/droughts as adults. With hippos it's primarily disease. Interspecific killing isn't a big percentage in either.

[stiff osprey]

huh, that tells you a lot about each one's lifestyle

elephants have only four sets of teeth, which end at age 60-70 or so, so they are fated to starve if they make it to adulthood

hippos live in crowded communities in filthy water for half the year, so they can get an achievement for every disease

and rhinos are rhinos

[toxic prairie]

Why are trikes so overpowered

[bright veldt]

Wrong chat?

[leaden vigil]

What are some of the extinct creatures we have with the best preserved specimens? Like yuka the mammoth or the mummified nodosaur.

[slim ridge]

Iirc and I could be wrong, it’s mainly because of the environment they live in, musk deer for example do have antlers but small ones because of the dense vegetation they live in. To compensate for this they have tusks.
In dense vegetation having bits that stick out a lot isn’t handy when moving around, so a lot of forest dwelling herbivores have tusks.

[snow python]

He is wrong, right? about Spino having a stronger bite than Carch.

[woeful falcon]

Youtube comments, a haven of accurate statements.

[cobalt wigeon]

Why there is almost none properly found dinosaur fossil from these areas ? Do we know anything about these ecosystem from maastrichtian greenland, scandinavia, central africa etc.

[west solstice]

Out of curiosity how omnivorous/opportunistic do you guys think Ornithomimus might’ve been?

I’d wager at least small animals and insects, possibly carrion (I recall a great comic series, Age of Reptiles, where the Struthis that were part of the herd gnoshed on a Heterodontosaur’s guts after it had succumbed to a Velociraptor attack. In terms of species not wholly accurate but still interesting)

[cobalt wigeon]

wondering this came to your mind 3 minutes after I asked mine question ? Have at least some respect jesus

[scenic flame]

you're not more important than anyone else here

[storm heron]

Well a lot of herbivores that do live in dense forests have large horns and antlers. So it seems they are able to move around fine even with the length of their antlers/horns.

[slim ridge]

a big part might be that circumstances for preservation are just not as favourable as in other environments, since we know australia did have dinosaurs, just found very few

[slim ridge]

aye mainly larger deer species ofc, hence why i dont think it is the reason but moreso part of/a reason for some.

tho antlers aren't permanent structures so they don't get in the way that often either

[storm heron]

That is true, though there are other herbivores that do have permanent horns such as Asian Buffalo.

[slim ridge]

aye as are Gaur and african forest buffalo

[white matrix]

[storm heron]

Lets not forget some dinosaurs too.

[heady thunder]

Was there a significant size difference between dire wolves and the grey wolves?
Cos Ive heard that they were sameish size length and height wise but the dires were bulkier.

[storm heron]

From what I remember, Dire Wolves and Grey Wolves were very similar in size to each other.

[slim ridge]

i think thats about right, a bit more mass but it's not that much bigger

[heady thunder]

Yeah, the dires had some other differences too iirc, like a broader snout.

[west solstice]

Who me?

Oh sorry

But uh, for that I think it’s jus that Dino fossils can be sporadic where they show up almost

[storm heron]

As well as a more sloped head, shorter and stouter legs,

[heady thunder]

Reminds me of the Hanshu wolf

[west solstice]

Sorry again

[heady thunder]

I dont think you have to apologize, especially when youve done nothing wrong.

[ocean drum]

Can someone explain why panjura is called panjura when it's name is based ofPangea the super continent but gondwana is based of gondua witch is an island yet gondwa is larger than panjura

[frigid coral]

I don’t get why your asking. Do you mean why Panjura is larger than Gondwa in-game?

[covert lintel]

they just kinda are. my best guess is that either the devs were better at optimizing maps by the time gondwa was made, or the growing playerbase + addition of fliers meant that the map had to be larger to accommodate 'em.

[covert lintel]

all you did was ask a question, nothing wrong with that

[cinder jewel]

Absolutely no need to apologize. It's possible for multiple questions to be asked and answered at the same time. You did nothing wrong and the other person was perhaps a bit persnickety for no reason.

[frigid coral]

Don’t apologize, nobody has a priority pass in this chat, your fine!

[heady thunder]

Theyre the same, 8x8 iirc.

[ocean drum]

Yeah for the namesake

[ocean drum]

Than why does it take longer to travel across Gondwa

[heady thunder]

Verticality.

[ocean drum]

That doesn’t mean their the same size tho

[heady thunder]

It does, but Gondwa has stuff like unclimbable mountain passes, rivers you have to pass. On Panj, you can ignore most of that and just walk in a straight line. Theyre still the same area.

[ocean drum]

Yeah but panjura also does have like 10 million cliffs, hills, mountains, etc

[heady thunder]

As I said, on Panj, you can ignore them. In Gondwa, you have to pass through.Walking from riverland to sll is like a straight path, with a few cliffs who have big distinctive paths you walk through.

[slim ridge]

I feel like they just named them that because it sounds good and has a relation to the general Mesozoic.
I rlly don’t think there’s much more to it

[frigid coral]

honestly yeah

[covert lintel]

the maps don't need to be fully accurate to their namesakes anyway. panjura is mostly coniferous forest, redwood forest, and oak-heavy forests, with a few grass plains scattered in - pangaea was much more diverse than this, and if memory serves pangaea wasn't even intact when grass became a thing. gondwana was also part of pangaea for most of its (gondwana's) existence

[ocean drum]

I could say the same because of the river system on Gondwa

[heady thunder]

Gondwa is smaller land wise tho, dont forget the ocean eats up surface from the land area. @ocean drum That only works if youre a semi, if youre an albera, its harder to travel with rivers wou have to cross.

[frigid coral]

I have a baby deino save who’s currently stuck by a river shore because there’s two cliffs surrounding a patch of land by the river that I can’t get around

[slim ridge]

Or Dasp who has to find very specific routes in order to cross because they can’t swim to safe their lives

[wary herald]

You guys do know that there are Little Rock bridges you can get on right?

[heady thunder]

Lemme guess, titans pass towards grand plains? @slim ridge Yeah that too, those make Gondwa feel larger, if it was flat, you could run through all the land in 10 mins in like a midtier.

[slim ridge]

Aye but those aren’t everywhere, the water between Young grove and dark woods is just barely within Dasps ability to swim but your other alternative is a good long walk around so gotta do what ya gotta do

[heady thunder]

Yeah, I park my croc there and kill the dinos which can barely pass, have caught like 3 baby raptors and let two go.

[frigid coral]

young grove is the worst place for a baby spawn but I’ll talk bout that in another chat

[heady thunder]

HT takes the cake imo, but this is no paleo deal.

[slim ridge]

Ngl I don’t even swim through that place cus of the amount things in it lol

But yes it’s not paleo

[covert lintel]

tbh i think it was dubiously paleo in the first place; the maps aren't going to be paleo-accurate because panjura =/= pangaea

[heady thunder]

It was geological lel

[slim ridge]

Ya talked about grass and conifers so perhaps you can stretch it

[heady thunder]

Are there conifers in Gondwa? I forget to look at the trees.

[slim ridge]

Panjura has em iirc

[light osprey]

Yes, most of the major forests are still coniferous

[covert lintel]

thankfully the existence of conifers is paleo-accurate
also i'm pretty sure gondwa has some? since there's pinecones and those usually pop up in coniferous areas, and i recall some conifer-shaped trees bein' around

[heady thunder]

I think they are more in dark woods and the north, the south doesnt look like its coniferous.

[covert lintel]

young grove has conifers iirc

[light osprey]

I think the deciduous forests are literally only central

[heady thunder]

Yeah, I spend 90% of my time central, so my brain thinks 90% arent like that.

[white matrix]

who is wining in a fight gp3 spino or scorpios?

[covert lintel]

no

[frigid coral]

the show being cancelled

[heady thunder]

Me

[white matrix]

are you sure about that????

[heady thunder]

Yes

[frozen basin]

Or

[covert lintel]

can i change my answer to or

[slim ridge]

I’d bet on Escanorflex, he could do it

[heady thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/escanor-seven-deadly-sins-power-gif-15589428

[unborn bane]

Please keep the chat on topic.

[storm heron]

Look at this Rhino charging at a group of three Elephants, the definition of fearlessness.

[heady thunder]

Did mosasaurus have to compete with any pliosaurs?

[compact leaf]

very early on iirc but the pliosaurs were mostly gone when the mosasaurs became dominant

[covert lintel]

from what i can tell, seems like pliosaurids died out a bit before mosasaurus itself came around. either way, there was at least some general overlap between pliosaurids and mosasaurids

[compact leaf]

yeah there was a few holdovers right up to the late cretaceous so the pliosaurs were still around just not in the numbers they were during the jurassic

[heady thunder]

So no cool Pliosaur vs Mosasaur fights .
Well at least the sharks never gave up.

[ancient crystal]

Sharks: shrugging off mass extinction events since 400 milion B.C.

[light osprey]

I think brachauchenius existed around the same time as some Mosasaurs 🤷

[heady thunder]

Never heard of the guy, Ill go read smth about it.

Anyone got any good skeletals of it, I can only find ones from Prehistoric Wildlife

[light osprey]

He’s about 5 meters long at his biggest

[heady thunder]

Thanks.
On the smaller side eh, yeah no cool Plesi vs Mosasaur fights, well at least not with the big mosasaurs.

[bright veldt]

David Peters

[flat pond]

Oof

[heady thunder]

So not a good skeletal?

[pearl briar]

Brachauchenius most up-to-date reconstructions
(and yes not a good skeletal)

[pearl briar]

yes

[heady thunder]

The tail looks hilariously small, is that a pliosaur quirk?

[viral beacon]

what is this chat for

[light osprey]

Palaeontology discussions. But I’ve just dropped in a David peters reconstruction so the accuracy part is in question 😅

[junior jasper]

I just heard someone say that spino is 23 meters long

Help me

[ancient crystal]

Sounds like someone has a very poor grasp on the metric system

[junior jasper]

For sure

I can’t find any estimates that suggest it was that long, but it should be obvious that’s not a reliable length

[stiff osprey]

forgot the censor 😔

23m Spino is based on a very bad scaling of NMC 41852, a partial humerus. It was between 65-76 cm long but was misreconstructed as 96 cm long

[snow python]

How big is that specimen anyway? I don't think is bigger than 13-14m, i heard spino's max size would be 15m in extremely old individuals and maybe 8,3t.

[mellow gale]

Could dinos survive in icey climates given the opportunity? With some being warm blooded and having the ability to grow feathers, could a penguin Dino exist?

[bright veldt]

Penguins are dinosaurs, and we already have numerous examples of non-avian dinosaurs living in snowy conditions. The Mesozoic rarely had proper ice but there’s no reason to think they wouldn’t be fine if they’re already accustomed to cold.

[covert lintel]

some dinosaurs did live in relatively chilly environments, although in terms of non-avian dinosaurs, i don't think many of them were on the same level as the modern antarctic - snow wasn't very common back then.
the prince creek, yixian, and nemegt formations are some examples of ecosystems that were on the chillier side and may have seen snow occasionally (prince creek probably less than yixian and nemegt iirc, and all of them still had warmer seasons)

[slim ridge]

Given enough time, likely.

[sudden wind]

Still this one is too deep. Also isn't that Megacephalosaurus instead ?

Here is what we have of Brachauchenius. The skull seems to differ in some ways but the animal isn't well diagnosticated as far as I remember.

[bright veldt]

It probably looks like megacephalosaurus given that it’s brach’s closest relative.

[light osprey]

Yeah just don’t mind that skeletal I used… 😅

[safe valley]

guys which type of spino u would take? balanced, speed or def?

[bright veldt]

Wrong chat

[frigid coral]

why does everyone always come to Paleochat for POT questions

[slim ridge]

A mystery as old as time

[vast narwhal]

Its active

[hexed oxide]

Lucky, I can't even find one fossilized shark tooth at the beach XD

[woeful falcon]

Might be surprising to learn that not everyone around this part of the server actively plays PoT as much as someone in another channel.

Now paleo stuff, there you might get answers

[stiff osprey]

The exact same thing happens in the isle server, I have the theory people look for the word 'chat' first and assume the 'paleo' is just a reference to POT being a dinosaur (=paleo) game

[heady thunder]

I think maybe they believe that the matchups and dino viability are dictated by how they went irl, so they ask here lel

[hexed oxide]

Breh

[pearl briar]

tell that dude "unfortunately, thx to the new 'paddle-like tail' discovery, spino length got nerfed from 23 meters to 13-14 meters"

[scenic flame]

Spino was never 23 meters

[junior jasper]

Exactly

Ik now about the messed up estimate that gave a 23m length, and obviously that estimate was pure bull

[robust raft]

i

[hasty wharf]

Who remembers when this was considered accurate, it kinda is… but that face is horrible.

Puke colored Rex.

[stiff osprey]

ironically has almost as many problems as the JP one

[hasty wharf]

Ahhh, much better…

[stiff osprey]

lacking lips, lacking the pterygoid muscles, arms not nearly muscular enough, shoulders too far forward, toes weirdly rotated, skull is asymmetrical so the eyes are lopsided, not enough binocular vision

[woeful falcon]

Has feathers tho so its good

[hasty wharf]

But the feathers look weird.

[frail stream]

Shhhhh

That’s not what matters

[hasty wharf]

Beautiful

[woeful falcon]

Also has a problem that one dunnit

[frail stream]

Not fat enough of whatever

[hasty wharf]

It’s fat enough

Really fat.

[frigid coral]

it’s a little too fat afaik

there’s an issue on the chest but I forgot exactly what it was, the same issue is on the Prehistoric Planet Hank

[woeful falcon]

Idk if hank had it but I believe the issue was that it is based on a skeletal mount with backwards gastralia, resulting in a deep torso, ie the chonk

[hasty wharf]

The snout looks a bit too… wide maybe

It also looks smooth, maybe too smooth, but young rexes probably had feathers, which probably left the skin smooth-ish, and like a crocodile, the skin might’ve cracked as it got older, idk. :p

[white matrix]

Hank is a beautiful T.rex who just wanted to prehistoric grill his way to paleo-media.

[pearl briar]

it's fat
it never be ballin

[woeful falcon]

It wouldn't have been like a crocodile.

[white matrix]

[true urchin]

improved my tylo, how does this new one look accuracy wise?

[celest viper]

ew

who thought that was a good idea

[quartz slate]

I’m not being rude, but it looks like it has fat rolls lol

[rigid mountain]

it looks like a childs toy im sorry

[quartz slate]

Oh ye lol it looks like one lol

[rigid mountain]

i dont mean to be mean to the creator about it

[covert lintel]

iirc it's going to be a 3d printed articulated figure, which is why it looks like that; it's built to move

[rigid mountain]

kk

[broken frigate]

as someone with the limp articulated figures that many jointed tail looks incredibly satisfying to me

[neat drum]

Looks better from an accuracy standpoint! Still an amazing piece in general artwise, you are talented

[topaz flume]

(Allegedly) A Spinosaurus tooth embedded in Carcharodontosaurus vertebra

[heady thunder]

Yikes, bad day for the carch.

[white matrix]

I’d pay millions to see that happen

[chilly knot]

That's likely fake lol

[heady thunder]

Why?

[chilly knot]

Private fossil

[neat drum]

a lot of fossils from that region are fakes so there is reason to be wary as well

[chilly knot]

The bite marks also look like someone carved them in with a random stone or knife 💀

[topaz flume]

Sad
Unfortunately it was auctioned off to private buyer so no one's been able to study it

[neat drum]

you mean spinosaurus couldn't just bite around the whole vertebrae?

[stray wren]

It's unfortunate but yeah, a lot of "fossils" from the Negmet and Kem Kem that end up in collections are either fakes or illegally poached

[covert lintel]

i would be very interested to see how spinosaurus would need to bite carch in order to get a tooth lodged into that specific part of the vertebra

[stray wren]

That too, it's not an easy spot to get to

[neat drum]

in reality, if it were a real fossil, it likely would occur from scavenging

[stray wren]

Unless the animal was already dead at the time of tooth breaking

[tough parcel]

Keep in mind, carchar verts are usually buried in a lot of muscle (all of em have a small hump, Acro just took it to an extreme), so if the tooth was buried in that deep, either

A) Spinosaurus has a stronger bite than T. rex

B) Scavenging

[heady thunder]

C) It killed it and ate it, somehow.

[neat drum]

spinosaurus gave carch some homeopathic medicine to cure his cough and ended up giving him heavy metal poisoning, cured the cough at least tho

[stray wren]

Ehh even then the bone should show signs of healing as your processes don't fully stop until like, a few days after you die. Although that would require analysis and since I doubt the fossil is even real and the fact it's in a collection I doubt that'll ever happen

Private collections are where specimens go to die

[neat drum]

if spinosaurus was scavenging bone, i dont think the carch was very fresh

[heady thunder]

Nah, gigachad Spoon piledrived it and ate it.

[tough parcel]

"Oh man, what a lovely day to be a Carcharodontosaurus in the Kem Kem Beds."

"Wait, what's that? IT'S SPINOSAURUS WITH A STEEL CHAIR!"

[covert lintel]

especially if it had to bite down hard enough to not just dislodge a tooth, but embed it in the carch's vertebra

[stiff osprey]

everyone talking about the tooth being embedded in a weird place but i'm pretty sure the part that is going inside the vertebra is the root. this tooth is backwards

[covert lintel]

actually hold on. how would any of it get fossilized if it was still exposed to large scavengers after all the meat had decayed/been eaten? wouldn't that be incredibly rare, since scavengers and microbes would be picking at it and breaking it down?

[topaz flume]

This

[covert lintel]

EVIDENCE OF DINOSAURS GROWING TEETH IN THEIR SPINES?!?!?!?! (REAL) (NOT CLICKBAIT)

[neat drum]

spinosaurus took it and sank it in the dinosaur version of those hippo mud puddles

[stray wren]

Inb4 this is one of those tumors that grows teeth

[neat drum]

tl;dr fossil almost 100% fake

[stray wren]

The individual fossils themselves may be real, but the bite is bogus

[covert lintel]

unfortunately, rich fossil collectors have no critical thinking

[neat drum]

ACTUALLY could the tooth have just lodged there randomly?

to explain, i have an alligator vertebrae that had a snail shell stuck inside of it, the snail likely either crawled in there and died, or the shell got pushed inside by the elements, it wasn't super stuck though so im thinking the latter

maybe a similar thing could've happened?

(nah def fake)

[eager skiff]

does anyone know pycnonemosaurus nevesi weight and size?

[bright veldt]

10 meters and 4ish tons

[eager skiff]

Alr

[eager skiff]

Any skeletals u have?

[bright veldt]

The only proper specimen we have is an immature subadult individual, which is 9 meters and 2.5 tons, but scaling up just slightly (in combination with fragmentary potentially adult pycno remains) give the size I stated

[eager skiff]

Okay

Thanks

[modern temple]

Guys

Prehistoric Planet Season 2 trailer is out and also hesperornis i saw

[heady thunder]

Proof?

[eager skiff]

OH CRAP, u right

[eager skiff]

Was posted 11 mins ago

[eager skiff]

There better be a spinosaurus in there or imma riot

[neat drum]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5O1ZXcGQlA

[heady thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/look-at-the-size-of-this-w-spongebob-patrick-star-blinking-cant-say-anything-gif-17814649

[stray wren]

Same time span as the last one, so no Spino

[bright veldt]

Probably not hesperonis itself. It’s too late in time for it I think.

[eager skiff]

RAHHH!😭😭😭

[heady thunder]

Lol

[ocean drum]

Mom can we have concavenator we have concavenator at home concavenator at home XD

[heady thunder]

Did the fangs of Smilodon make eating more difficult?

[bright veldt]

Eh they coped fine.

[ocean drum]

Ey they seemed to have made rex the correct body mass

[neat drum]

important to remember that smilodons fangs were not poked out that bad, it could still fully open its mouth and eat

[stiff osprey]

modern big cats don't really use their canines to eat, they chew with the sides of their mouths. same for smilodon

it did make it more difficult to get its mouth around prey for a kill though, hence why Smilodon's jaws needed to open an insane amount compared to other cats

[ocean drum]

nvm 😦

[neat drum]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Smilodon_saber-toothed_tiger_skull_(La_Brea_Asphalt%2C_Upper_Pleistocene%3B_Rancho_La_Brea_tar_pits%2C_southern_California%2C_USA)_2_(15443304452).jpg

[ocean drum]

The moment they add spinosaurus it'll completely change that's why they're probably not gonna add it XD

[eager skiff]

😭

[neat drum]

few folks take into account the slippage, see that dark area on the tooth? that would not be visible, it would be in the skull

[ocean drum]

tbh spinosaurus is an F U from god to paleontologists

[pearl briar]

i've seen the teaser and.....
are there any possibilities for rex vs quetz?

[neat drum]

so its fangs, while still big, were not that much bigger than species like clouded leopards, so it didn't need to do anything unique to feed or hunt outside of its jaws opening wider

[eager skiff]

more like a standoff, rex one shots quetz

[ocean drum]

That's not even a fair fight by far

[heady thunder]

The best fight after male lion vs jackal.

[eager skiff]

Looks like theres a corpse in the back aswell so prob a standoff

[ocean drum]

looks like a sauropod

[pearl briar]

(i theorized it) an alamo corpse

[neat drum]

https://boneclones.com/images/store-product/product-456-main-main-big-1638579776.jpg

clouded leopard skull for comparison, they got long bois too

[heady thunder]

They do show a bit

[pearl briar]

that's an azhdarchidae pterosaur not hesperonis
also i theorized it as a:
A) Hatzegopteryx
B) Arambourginia
C) Cryodrakon
but i'll go onto hatz by now

[neat drum]

cat canines go way, way back into the skull, most sabertooth cat depictions dont account for the slippage so they end up up to 2x too long

[modern temple]

The picture is not related at all to what i said about hesperornis

Also thats hatz because we know how hatz already looked in the show in the previous season

As well as quetz

[pearl briar]

wait

[covert lintel]

yeah, as you said, literally half of the tooth is meant to be deep in the skull - the areas that've been pushed out to make room for the roots of smilodon's canines are clearly visible on the skulls, even

[rancid vault]

YAY!

it seems we’ll be getting more in-depth stuff on creatures already shown and also even more creatures

[unborn bane]

@white matrix Please do not encourage or mention participation in illegal activities, refer to our #rules.

[vast narwhal]

🫨

[barren compass]

that babies are so cute bro i cant

[light osprey]

Halzkaraptor looks very nice, the new season looks very fun.

[hasty wharf]

https://youtu.be/7ci0OHJVWm4 OHHHH MY GOD

May 22

[hexed oxide]

Yesssiiiiirrr B)

[little mauve]

awesome, can't wait

Glad they aren't leaving the Maastrichtian yet

[scenic flame]

it is hatze, same model as season 1

https://twitter.com/WryCritic/status/1648328088407748613

Natalia Jagielska 🦤 (@WryCritic)

NEW PTEROSAUR ALERT!

Meet "The Big Boy", known from a chunky tibia, tail and pedal finger! From the same formation as Dearc, Middle Jurassic shallow sea, but more robust. Turns out pterosaurs were diverse & large in Jurassic Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🐉

Likes

372

Twitter · Apr 18, 2023, 2:10 PM

[little mauve]

The hesperonis is at 0:32. Interesting they're sticking with hatzegopteryx in what appears to be the Javelina formation

[bright veldt]

No? It’s just a stretch of beach.

[little mauve]

When it's facing off with the Tyrannosaurus near the sauropod, presumable Alamosaurus, corpse

[rose thorn]

Those are Quetzacoatlus

[little mauve]

ah okay, so it has both- that makes more sense

[ruby geyser]

So… new prehistoric planet teaser has launched , and a couple of Hatzeopteryxs was shown, I’m kinda even more hyped for Hatz on pot now❤️

I post this here to cuz I wana talk about what u guys think about the models used

[little mauve]

the entire series is excellent

[ruby geyser]

Yo but they made a difference between genders and I love the idea of Hatz

[sudden wind]

It's not n Hesperornis though. It's a relative sure but cannot be Hespe itself as it isn't from Maastrichtian.

[bright veldt]

Oh yeah they’re all perfect. Only the highest quality with PP. There are some issues (small Nanuqsaurus, dreadnaughtus having claws, carnotaurus osteoderms) but they’re info that’s either not published yet or wasn’t known in the years leading up to its release.

The biggest downright inaccuracies in S1 are Maastrichtian velociraptor and the out of place quetzalcoatlus.

[cinder jewel]

Small nanuqsaurus could get fixed by just having larger ones here. Probably won't get that, but it's the only one that can be basically handwaved away without a model change

[little mauve]

right it's an hesperornithid but that's a pain to type out and not in my autocorrect lol

[wide glen]

Rapetosaurus, quetzalcoatlus vs hank, possibly tarchia and daspleto considering this takes place 80-70 mya

[wide glen]

From the size it might just be plain old hesperornis,

[little mauve]

too old, they're sticking in the Maastrichtian

[tulip dove]

72-66 mya

[sudden wind]

Rapeto is Maastrichtian. Quetz too and T.rex is even late Maastrichtian.

[little mauve]

Naish has confirmed that on twitter

[nocturne cairn]

It looks like the same time as the first season, so late Maastrichtian ~66mya

[ruby geyser]

Saw more focus on land Dino’s this time tbh from the teaser , it contains many shots , can I post the link here?

[jagged trellis]

dinosaurs

[terse mountain]

The Spinosaurus is the biggest carnivore ever recorded that we know of. This mammoth dinosaur measures 50 feet in length and weighed 7 ½ tons meaning it trumps even the biggest carnivorous dinosaurs in the size stakes. It is larger than the Giganotosaurus and the infamous Tyrannosaurus Rex! wod win

[jagged trellis]

spoon got a slight length nerf, similar bulk at like 45 feet and both rex and giga are heavier at 10-11 tons vs spoons 6-7

[white matrix]

Rex was the biggest carnivore lol.

[kind herald]

Prehistor Planet 2 lets goo

[light osprey]

Any notable late maastrichtian spinosaurids? (In reference to PhP)

[ancient crystal]

No

[tough parcel]

No spinosaurid survived to the Maastrichian

[compact leaf]

but what about montanaspinus

[tough parcel]

True!

[vast narwhal]

Rex grumbling rn

[chilly knot]

Montanaspinus inexpectatus

[compact leaf]

I have a personal theory that eastern north america is overrun with spinosaurids like spinosaurus just to taunt us

[jagged trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/wait-what-meme-wait-a-minute-gif-14484132

concern

[bright veldt]

Spinosaurus isn’t even in the top 5 largest theropods anymore lmao

Longest still tho

[white matrix]

It’s not?

[bright veldt]

Tyrannosaurus, Giganotosaurus, Mapusaurus, Deinocheirus, and Therizinosaurus are all larger

[white matrix]

Theri is larger?

[pine harness]

Theri no it’s been downsized

[bright veldt]

Not by much but it is

[white matrix]

No, it is not. It's spine does a lot of it's height, but it does not make it a large theropod. It is just longer, so in 1 spino vs 1 rex match up, rex wins.

[bright veldt]

Nobody was talking about in a fight anyway

[white matrix]

I meant in comparisons. Not a fight fight match up lol.

[jagged trellis]

pretty sure theri is slightly heavier rn, but duck giga map and rexy are all fatter most certainly rn

[bright veldt]

Where?

[pine harness]

Toxic iirc it lost like 2t

[bright veldt]

I’d just like to see something physical that verifies it

[pine harness]

Give me a sec

@bright veldt

It was in 2.0

[white matrix]

What’s spino current weight

[woeful falcon]

3

[bright veldt]

Could I get an invite to that? In DMs?

[white matrix]

3 tons?

[bright veldt]

Spino’s 7.5 tons

[woeful falcon]

no that was a joke response idk off hand

[white matrix]

Mapu weight?

[bright veldt]

Giga and Mapu are around 9 tons

[pine harness]

Needs a gdi

But ye

[white matrix]

How much do all of these weigh

[bright veldt]

Tyrannosaurus is 10 tons, mapu and giga are 9 tons, Deinocheirus is over 8, Theri’s 5.5 apparently

[jagged trellis]

duck is like 7-8 tons, map 9, giga is in the 9-10 zone and rex 9-11 zone from my knowledge on it, and theri was 7. something tons but might be smaller now seeing that

[tranquil quartz]

What happened to T. chubutensis?

[bright veldt]

Tyrannotitan’s around 7 or 7.5 tons iirc?

[pine harness]

Giga was recently re scaled the largest individual being the dentary at 10.5-10.8t

[bright veldt]

Dentary estimates are trash tho

[pine harness]

We were able to get better estimates with pictures by darkinx

It clear that the dentary individual is much larger

[white matrix]

I’m gonna ignore mapu from now on to call spino 3rd largest carnivorous Dino ever

[tough parcel]

But even without Mapu, it's not the third

Doesn't TTT take that place if we ignore Mapu

[pine harness]

You forget that deino is 8.3t but ok

[jagged trellis]

you could always still call it the longest without ignoring several animals

[tranquil quartz]

Wait whats mapus size estimates?

[hushed valve]

8.8t-9t

[white matrix]

A yeah I forgot about mr gator

[tough parcel]

Deinocheirus*

[jagged trellis]

not the gator, the D U C K, the gator is even fatter

[woeful falcon]

Deinonychus*

[icy granite]

||the 15 ton Deinocherius||

[tranquil quartz]

Gator(Deino) is the largest predatory archosaur iirc

[white matrix]

Damn it I forgot duck ate fish

[pine harness]

Probably but i haven’t finished the musculature diagram

[woeful falcon]

disgusting

[jagged trellis]

to be fair that requires a unhealthily obese one vs these being just.....there

[white matrix]

Oh well spino will always my fav big boy megatherapod

[chilly knot]

[covert lintel]

gators is not dinosaurs

[white matrix]

Oh yeah

[pine harness]

Btw if you guys are interested in learning how much larger is the dentary compared to the other individual (it was scaled by dan and random) but this comparison is by Dan

[scenic flame]

very cool comparison

[leaden vigil]

Hoping the new carch info i heard about will give us an upsize when described

Also if theri is 5.5 tons who takes the 5th slot in largest therapods?

[light osprey]

The fifth biggest theropod

[leaden vigil]

Ah yes fifthosaurus thank u

[chilly knot]

Snax prob

[woeful falcon]

please don't call it that

[ancient crystal]

Too late, can't wait to talk about my new favorite dinosaur Fifthosaurus cheloniformis

[pine harness]

Deino is probably 5

Mapu would be 4

[ancient crystal]

Too bad its not a dinosaur or a therapod

[covert lintel]

deinocheirus

[ancient crystal]

Oh, I'm dumb ignore me. Got too used to a server I'm on calling it chierus because of deinosuchus

[bright veldt]

Here’s a copy of my personal footnotes for top 10 theropod sizes.

1. Tyrannosaurus (12m, 10 tons)
   2+3. Giganotosaurus & Mapusaurus (13m, 9 tons)
2. Deinocheirus (12m, 8.5 tons)
   5 + 6. Spinosaurus (14m, 7.5 tons), Tyrannotitan (12m, 7.5 tons)
3. Carcharodontosaurus (12m, 7 tons)
4. Saurophagonax (13m, 6.5 tons)
   9, 10, + 11. Acrocanthosaurus (12m, 5.5 tons), Therizinosaurus (9m, 5.5 tons), Tarbosaurus (11m, 5.5 tons)

[white matrix]

I’m sorry deino does not mean duck duck is duck

And deino is big alligator

[pine harness]

The sauro is actually 11.6m

Oh also i forgot big zhuchengtyrannus

[light osprey]

What’s that tonnage difference between T proriger and M hoffmanni?

[leaden vigil]

Awesome ty

[tranquil quartz]

No

[bright veldt]

That sauro size is from the composite isn’t it? Also not considering zucheng because depending on what you follow your sizes can range from smaller than daspleto to larger than tarbo.

[white matrix]

Yes

[sudden wind]

A lot.

T.proriger is a Tylosaurus specie. Tylosaurus is defined by its very triangular head shape, renforced rostrum, round shaped flipper and very numerous caudal vertebrae. It also is much shallower than M.hoffmani but is known to have reached greater sizes.
M.hoffmani lack this renforced rostrum, the head is less of a triangle but still very lizard like, the flippers are less broader and shaped similarly to dolphins, it has a much deeper and wider body, it's tail is less elongated according to a more advanced swimming style than Tylosaurus.

There are other characteristics that differentiate both animals but I gave you the major lines and what most people would notice.

[covert lintel]

tonnage. as in, difference in tons

[light osprey]

Interesting I was could’ve sworn M hoffmannii was a bulkier animal but I’ve always gotten some contrarian information.

[rose thorn]

Still helpful difference description though

[heady thunder]

The bigger tylos were like 18+ tons iirc?

[bright veldt]

That depends on the size of Brocker, which is up in the air atm. Not counting him tylo probably didn’t exceed 10 tons given that’s the size of the largest Mosasaurus, which is the proportionally heftier animal.

[tranquil quartz]

I thought Tylo was the bigger in general one iirc?

[bright veldt]

Unless Bonker changed that, probably not.

[tranquil quartz]

Who named the specimen ‘bonker’ lol?

[woeful falcon]

Bonker bonked bunker you see

[chilly knot]

There are mysteries in the universe we were never meant to solve

[bright veldt]

The funny thing is there is another tylosaurus specimen that’s named Bunker. Took me a while to realize Bunker and Bonker were different tylosaurs and not people making typos.

[sudden wind]

Which are both enormous

[scenic flame]

wait so is bronker a typo or another infuriating specimen name

[pearl briar]

sauro got size buff?

[woeful falcon]

I think typo but I like to think there is a 3rd giant tylosaurus with a similar name

[jagged trellis]

we all forgot banker as well, making lots of money working at wells fargo

[woeful falcon]

Of course, Binker too

[heady thunder]

Bonker Tylo with the Backer skin

[jagged trellis]

bonker backed bunker with a bonk, bonking banker who backed a backer bonker bonking bunker

[barren compass]

Would baby dromeasaurids be covered in downy feathers when they were young?

or were they just lookalikes of their parents with fully developed feathers

[ancient crystal]

I don't think any feathered animals are born with fully formed feathers.

[barren compass]

So would they have looked similar to eagle chicks?

[ancient crystal]

I'd imagine so.

[little mauve]

New study on marine reptile locomotion
https://phys.org/news/2023-04-paleobiologists-reveal-diverse-techniques-ancient.amp

[hallow spear]

Saving

[pearl briar]

the rex vs quetz
are there any possibilities for rex & quetz to met each other?

[white matrix]

I mean yeah quetz could fly hella far

[steady rock]

is scotty the trex a canadian?

[stoic tinsel]

yes

[steady rock]

damnit he was right

[ancient crystal]

I wonder if Scotty likes maple syrup

[twin tapir]

Of course I was

[modern temple]

Does kentro have the ability to gallop irl?

[bright veldt]

No. Too stiff.

[compact leaf]

true galloping is a hard thing for a skeleton to accomplish

[bright veldt]

Stegosaurs are very heavily built animals despite the lack of armor like ankylosaurs.

[white matrix]

Among stegosaurs, Kentro is pretty flexible tho

[snow field]

Nanotyrannus

[eager skiff]

Does any1 have metriacanthosaurus size and concavenator sizes?

[pearl briar]

i only have the concavenator one
Skeletal credit: randomdinos on deviantart

big appreciation for him/her

anyway
first spino, then dunkle, now edmonto

[eager skiff]

Thx

[cloud dagger]

why is edmonto trending lol

[stoic tinsel]

dont know but let me remind you an albertosaurine can outrun you

unless youre Usain Bolt

[heady thunder]

I dont need to outrun the albertosaurine, I just need to outrun my friends.

[steel cairn]

So, fun fact; Dinosaurs, as many of you know already, are divided into brid- and lizard-hipped. However, modern birds are not bird-hipped, as they evolved from lizard-hipped dinosaurs.

[heady thunder]

Funny

[pearl briar]

https://tenor.com/view/confused-wth-wtf-really-meme-gif-17151805

wait what

[steel cairn]

Yeah

"Brid-hips" are completely unique to dinosaurs

[stoic tinsel]

uhhhh yeah but birds do have bird hips cause yknow they are birds

ornithischians and birds just convergently evolved the same similar hips

[heady thunder]

Arent they lizard hips? Thats how they are seperated iirc, lizard hips vs bird hips

[stoic tinsel]

birds are in saurischia but they do not have the same hip structure as the rest of saurischia

[covert lintel]

birds are bird-hipped but they're lizard-hipped dinosaurs. hope this helps

[pearl briar]

considered birds are theropod & theropod are saurischian dinos
yeah

it's my sister
she asked me "can dinosaurs get sick? is there any fossil evidence?"
what should i answer with?
thank you & sorry for the disturbance 🙏

[heady thunder]

They can, as for fossil evidence, there are a lot of fossilised infections of dinos, so if they count we definitely have.

[west solstice]

Anyone else see the new Pachy screencap for Prehistoric Planet?

[slim ridge]

Weren’t there also some with cancers specifically

[covert lintel]

there's even evidence of dinosaurs suffering from parasites their modern-day descendants have to deal with, such as trich/frounce/canker

[stable sonnet]

Yes, I love the colours

[scenic flame]

There is fossil evidence if a sauropod having a severe respiratory infection

[scenic flame]

We also have several specimens of extinct animals showing infections and cancer

[heady thunder]

Treat themselves? Probably as much as modern animals, so probably licking their wounds and washing them to try and avoid infection, I dont think much more.

[tough parcel]

Apple TV account has been deleting any mention of Edmontosaurus on the Prehistoric Planet teaser

[heady thunder]

Why lol, edmont was in the fist season?

[tough parcel]

We dunno

[pearl briar]

somehow
apple tv is having a fear of edmonto "edmontophobia"

[ocean drum]

Edmonton is barley scary infact it has a great water-park that's right beside a recenter with a pool there's also good restaurants nice scenery etc. as a Canadian the only thing you should fear there is the Canadian geese. Even tho I may not be from Edmonton it still is a nice place.

[tough parcel]

They're still technically right, as theropods are lizard-hipped dinosaurs :p

[ocean drum]

Ye but they aint bird-hipped dinosaurs I was explaining to them that bird-hipped dinosaurs are called bird-hipped because there hips are closely if not the same shape as a birds hips

[tough parcel]

I said technically they are because theropods = birds, theropods = lizard-hipped, birds ~ lizard-hipped dinosaurs, it's weird

[ocean drum]

I know but the therapodic dinosaurs are still non-avian so that is kinda irrelevant well besides archaeopteryx and maybe microraptor

[tough parcel]

No, but ok, it's too early for this

[ocean drum]

Tell that to someone with insomnia

[unborn bane]

@ocean drum Please be respectful towards other users, refer to our #rules.

[ocean drum]

Ok sorry

[steel cairn]

People on other servers are saying P. Spinifer (aka stygi)

[jagged trellis]

just ends on a dude scarfing down bugs, but yay more crackheads in the media

[jagged trellis]

...how does that break the rules making a joke related to paleo subjects

[ocean drum]

Because you said c head and the devs go after you even if you something as little as d i m w i t so I'm giving a warning because any language that's ''offensive'' is considered rule breaking

[jagged trellis]

dunno what happened on that but i'm just making a joke about the pachy/stiggy( and its moreso the mods) anyways, bones

[tough parcel]

Yea lmao, you called someone a dimwit, they're just taking note of Pachys in media, very different

[ocean drum]

I just got in trouble for saying a minor work such as d i m w i t

[ocean drum]

infact in another disco I was stating that their stygimoloch's as a joke so people study/gain the knowledge that the stygi is a theoretical juvi/sub adult of a pachy

[tough parcel]

???

Anyways, Stygi is a separate species of Pachy, but the current specimens we have described are juveniles, so Ig they're technically right?

[ocean drum]

that's what I'm trying to say but it is infact agreed upon that stygi is a juvi and or sub-adult of a pachy so it's technically not a sperate genus anymore

[jagged trellis]

anyways getting more babies, prolly more herding showcases, dude just hoovering bugs up, more swimmy bois and tall thin man staring at fat mega fauna

[neat drum]

Not entirely true, its more complex than this

The specimen of spinifer is agreed to be juvenile/not fully grown, but it is not pachycephalosaurus wyomingensis

There is still an ongoing debate on if spinifer is pachycephalosaurus(P. spinifer) or if stygimoloch is still a valid genus for the specimen, with evidence possibly pointing towards stygimoloch remaining valid

Dracorex, however, 100% invalid

[tough parcel]

AFAIK P. spinifer is all but done so I doubt Stygi will ever make a comeback

[neat drum]

Last i heard stygi was being discussed, likely a "wait for the paper" situation

[tough parcel]

Eh, I have doubts Stygi will ever be revived

[heady thunder]

This spinifer guy took its place?

[tough parcel]

Essentially Stygimoloch spinifer was lumped into Pachy, making it P. spinifer

[heady thunder]

So, its just a sub species like the pot stygi?

[tough parcel]

Not sub-species, just a species

[heady thunder]

So a species of Pachy, I mix them up, I forget that the second name decides species not subspecies, thats the third iirc

[tough parcel]

Yarp

[neat drum]

Yeah, tbh its just pedantics, the main thing mentioned is spinifer is geologically younger than wyomingensis and also wyomingensis looks noticably differentbat that lifestage than spinifer

In either case, spinifer is distinct from wyomingensis, its just a matter of how distinct

[heady thunder]

Ima still call it stygi.

[tough parcel]

Don't, it causes an incredible amount of confusion

[heady thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/couldnt-care-less-i-dont-care-dont-care-do-not-care-spy-idc-gif-25739626

[jagged trellis]

aight ima call it stiggy then

[tough parcel]

[neat drum]

I feel like cf needs to be used more in paleontology

[heady thunder]

Whats cf?

Is it the common name of animals?

[neat drum]

Confer, "compared to", used to basically say "its likely this but more info needed"

[jagged trellis]

crazy fields, where they just use the bones like a pillow fight and whichever doesn't break they get to keep, oh and guess where it takes place on

[heady thunder]

Yo the POI from the Hit Niche Game Fortnite

[jagged trellis]

fortnite is one of the least niche things ever, but that sentence is funny so more, anyways B O N E S

[heady thunder]

Or was it Fatal Fields? Anyway, I dont care enough to search it

[jagged trellis]

you drop a few dollars and it auto converts into V bucks whenever you step foot on the field

[heady thunder]

When does that come into play, when you dont know the specifics of the animal?

[west drum]

no it’s a spiky pachy

[heady thunder]

No, pachy is a smooth stygi 😈

[jagged trellis]

its a pachy in the process of balding, draco has a full head of spikes seeing its young, old man pachy is bald and stiggy is in the middle stage

[neat drum]

Its used in literature if you dont know the genus but have a good guess(i.e. Spinosauridae cf. Suchomimus), or in a species scientific name if you are unsure of species(I.e. Pachycephalosaurus cf. Spinifer)

(None of these are true examples just showing how it works, most actual examples are insects and fish )

[neat drum]

Spinifer is spikier than wyomingensis, and also came after wyomingensis

So pachycephalosaurus got treatment for his baldness and was cured

[light osprey]

So P spinifer is just the last species of pachy, with wyomingensis being the more notable but older species, and the previously described stygi was a young growth stage of spinifer and is not its own genus nor is it a growth stage of wyomingensis?

[heady thunder]

I dont want to be that guy, but, look in the mirror lel

[jagged trellis]

the good ending

[neat drum]

That is the current thinking, though there is debate on if spinifer is Stygimoloch still or if it is pachycephalosaurus proper, its really just pedantics at that point though

Also Dracorex is a juvenile spinifer

[heady thunder]

RIP Draco, invalid to science but not to us.

[light osprey]

L Draco imagine being an invalid genus

Hmmm gonna have to consult with the man David peters on this. (Satire)

[heady thunder]

I wanna see David Peters reconstruction of spino.

[light osprey]

Spinosaurus doesn’t exist, it’s actually a pterosaur - David peters probably

[neat drum]

Spinosaurus is a derived syngnathid

[heady thunder]

So male spino got pregnant, got it

[woeful falcon]

And if you call it a spinifer, you can be correct on either outcome 😈

[ocean drum]

No Spinosaurus is a F U from god

[neat drum]

[covert lintel]

im very very late. but it depends what we mean by treatment here
complex medicine? No.
but some animals do treat illnesses in a sense; rubbing ants on their feathers to get rid of lice, eating poisonous plants to rid themselves of intestinal parasites, eating clay to protect themselves from toxins, etc. - whether or not it's done with any conscious knowledge of how it works is more debatable and the answer will probably vary between species, but either way, it's a thing that happens sometimes. modern medicine does have its roots in natural remedies, after all.
(NOTE: i dunno how widespread the complex end of this thing is, although i'm fairly confident the simpler end is pretty common, as many animals will bathe in water, mud, sand, or otherwise to rid themselves of parasites (and/or to keep cool, in the case of mud and water). take it not as a "yeah" answer, but as a "depending on how complex we're talking, which dinosaur, and which illness... maybe?")

[heady thunder]

Dinosaur with a medical phd.

[stiff osprey]

dinosaur doctorate: "if ate bad thing, uneat"

[covert lintel]

wise words

[light osprey]

In the case of triceratops horn laceration, submit ur flesh for consumption

[frigid coral]

has anyone considered the idea of bacteria growing in a broken Triceratops horn, causing whatever the trike slightly scrapes to have an infected wound?

[covert lintel]

probably wouldn't be good for the trike either tbh, but it's an interesting concept

[little mauve]

Well if a Triceratops had a broken horn with an active infection, its body is going to be working to repair that damage just like any other injury. Otherwise there's painful inflammation and the risk of infection spreading, blood toxicity, & death

[covert lintel]

yeah, if it's broken down to or past the bone, that's A Problem for the animal, to put it lightly (and even if it's not, iirc that can still cause some issues? keratin isn't exactly living matter, but it's still not great to have a bunch of bacteria in there i think)

[neat drum]

also if nonavian immune systems were anything like avian immune systems, oof they were likely near immortal until they got a protozoan in their throat

[little mauve]

For sure can still cause problems, the horns were full of blood vessels. An ingrown toenail can result in something like a keratin infection and it's no fun, can cause big mobility issues & blood vessel inflammation- all the bad stuff untreated

[neat drum]

infection in the keratin will seep to the bone and cause an absess between the keratin and the bone, not very fun

and because ceratopsian horns are part of their sinuses, you get an infection there and now you got an URI

[covert lintel]

oof, yikes
thank you both for confirming though

[neat drum]

AND species like triceratops have their sinuses going into the horn a bit

[little mauve]

We know from lesions on their skulls that this kind of thing was something they dealt with

[neat drum]

so if the horn breaks or cracks from day to day wear n tear, instant, permanent sinus infection

[tough parcel]

Do you have a chart because I’m having trouble imagining sinuses in the brow horns

[neat drum]

lemme see if i can find one, but its not that weird tbh

[little mauve]

Just picture looking straight up into the nostril

[neat drum]

basically as the horn core grows upwards the sinus follows it up, its most noticable in the brow horns

[tough parcel]

Source please because I’ve never heard of that

[little mauve]

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/tetrapod-zoology/the-supracranial-sinus-of-the-horned-dinosaur-skull/

[covert lintel]

i love learning about the weird hacks dinosaurs did to make their anatomy work

[tough parcel]

That’s not in the horn 💀

[neat drum]

it doesn't go up the entire horn lol, it grows into the base

[tough parcel]

Yea no, not far enough to warrant a break being fatal

[little mauve]

It's full of blood vessels, the infection could quickly reach it

[covert lintel]

i don't think anyone was making the claim that it'd be fatal, just Really Bad

[neat drum]

i never said fatal, just a chronic infection if it every cracks or breaks

[little mauve]

& I just said there'd be an immune response of some kind

[neat drum]

though if nonavians were like avians, anything respiratory and sinus related can be very dangerous

[little mauve]

Is it worse than in other groups?

[tough parcel]

Well, issue is, we have a couple trike horns that are snapped off and afaik, none show signs of major infection

[little mauve]

They're calloused iirc, which is preventative for infection

[neat drum]

fragile lungs and airsacs make avians extremely prone to mortality from even a minor respiratory infection

[little mauve]

Ah well airsacs wouldn't be a problem for triceratops at least

[neat drum]

chronic infection =/= major infection, you can live a relatively normal life with a mild case of chronic bronchitis thats left untreated, you will jsut cough and hack up mucus, while also having a less robust immune system

in bovines we see similar infections all the time, often not fatal, but present and, without surgery and outside care, it will never go away and the animal will be in constant discomfort and pain for the rest of its days

[covert lintel]

yeh, birds have a very optimized (for want of a better word) respiratory system, but they rely on it working properly. if it doesn't, Well.
iirc pet birds can quite quickly go from sneezing a bit to being on death's doorstep if not treated quickly

[neat drum]

birds when you spray fabreeze on the other side of the house:

[covert lintel]

birds when you use a non-stick pan within 10 meters of them, also

[neat drum]

and bovines have it worse off than ceratopsians, because their sinus goes up the entire bone core

also broken horns are not pretty, they are bloody and they are painful

i looked so y'all dont have to

[little mauve]

A triceratops with a broken horn is having a very bad day, but perhaps the evidence we have of them surviving those kinds of traumas indicates a powerful immune system in the species or group in general

[neat drum]

indeed

[little mauve]

Bonus shot of the supracranial sinus showing how it hangs out just above the braincase

[light osprey]

Screw triceratops, what about the thing that the rest of the horn is stuck in (in the case of it being predation related)

[little mauve]

Well one of the known healed brow horn injuries was very likely inflicted by a T. rex attack, as in the rex broke it off

[frigid coral]

oh god did I accidentally start an argument

or is it okay

[little mauve]

No arg here just a discussion

[frigid coral]

btw the reason why I asked the original question is because of this model, which has lore that the dudes horn broke and hosts some bacteria that kills/causes an infection with the slightest scratch, but the animal isn’t harmed due to it

[neat drum]

bacteria that causes infection needs something to feed on or it goes dormant

[little mauve]

Yeah works in mouths because they're full of goop

[neat drum]

so unless the trike has a wound the bacteria is feeding on(aka trike has infection) its horn is p much as harmful as any other trike horn

which, ceratopsians were prob kinda grimey and dirty

[frigid coral]

it says that due to a previous fight, there’s rotting flesh in the horn from a Tyrannosaurus thus what the bacteria is from

[neat drum]

so i wouldn't recommend getting impaled by a triceratops and then not washing it with a disinfectant

[light osprey]

At least we know the tyrannosaurus definitely died

[neat drum]

technically would work...but only for like a week max before the flesh was decayed and washed/worked out

[frigid coral]

constant fighting (that got stuck in the horn) would allow for the bacteria to stay, correct?

[neat drum]

probably

the odds of it working through are slim to none but technically possible

it'd actually have a bigger risk of spreading viruses (think using random used needles, good way to get fun bloodborne infections like HIV) than giving a bacterial infection

[frigid coral]

oo

[little mauve]

I respect the creativity and it's a gorgeous model, from a realism perspective it is quite far fetched. Kind of overkill too, I mean the horn is bad enough probably lol

the idea of the slightest scratch then becoming infected is kind of a funny image too, Triceratops just lightly scratching stuff

[light osprey]

Yeah I don’t bacterial infections are a tyrannosaurs’ biggest problem when his spike is lodged in your torso

[frigid coral]

would be really dangerous in in-fighting

[little mauve]

The lore seems to be going for an upping of the danger factor yes, & if it worked as described it would certainly be dangerous

[jagged trellis]

you spill the dudes coffee and he gives ya a virus or bacteria infection not even from his own skin, abit overkill ngl instead of making me pay for the coffee

[covert lintel]

animals aren't exactly sterile anyway, a normal wound from a triceratops horn would be decently likely to get infected by just kinda. existing

[jagged trellis]

wym he cleans his horns everyday to keep em looking pretty, good reason why he gets the ( even more) expensive coffee: image

[pearl briar]

uhhh
scotty is shorter than sue but heavier than sue????

❓❓❓

my brain isn't braining rn

[little mauve]

it's a difference of 2 centimeters

I understand the appeal of precision but the OP comparing them to the second decimal point is a little absurd with such enormous animals

[frigid coral]

cause you can be shorter than somebody but still be multiple pounds heavier

[pearl briar]

is it like quetz & hatz case?

[frigid coral]

yes

but the difference is a lot less and it’s the same species

[pearl briar]

ahh ok mb

[woeful falcon]

Shouldn't be that hard to brain. There are people taller than me that weigh less. And like gbone said, the difference is so minute that it doesn't really matter. The difference in their weight is also pretty negligible. Would only take a good lunch to put one over the other.

[ocean drum]

If I'm correct they forgot to update the site because after that was posted there was a diagram that showed 10.6 tons for rex instead of 10.4

[white matrix]

Dinosaurs are real

Australia is not real. Never was and never will be

And that’s a fact

You’ve been lied to

[placid knot]

How strong was sarcos bite force in tons if anyone knows?

[white matrix]

How can it be large if it simply doesn’t exist

Ok one sec

[frigid coral]

It just doesn’t exist idk what to tell you man

[white matrix]

Do you see Australia there? Cause I don’t

[frigid coral]

that’s exactly what someone who isn’t real would say

[pearl briar]

no way 😱

[white matrix]

Agreed

[tranquil veldt]

Wow… this is… a strange debate…

[white matrix]

Strange but true

You never did

[frozen spindle]

This. I am entertained.

[lime fulcrum]

[frigid coral]

Australia is made up by the developers to make their secret spy backstories more plausible

[white matrix]

Obviously

[frozen spindle]

I bet their reverse spinning toilets sucked up the entire country. If you looked at the bottom of the ocean where Australia used to be... toilet...

[frigid coral]

this guys got the answers

[pearl briar]

what is deinonychus most up-to-date length & weight?

[stiff osprey]

3.2-3.7 meters and 70-100 kg

[pearl briar]

mega thank you 🫡

[storm heron]

I initially read this as 32-37 metres.

[stiff osprey]

Deinonychus is both the longest and skinniest vertebrate, nice

[pearl briar]

ok another question
any idea for dasp and albert's most up-to-date weight?

[light osprey]

To my knowledge it’s around 3 metric tons for the largest Daspletosaurus, and 2.5 for the largest albertosaurus. I could be wrong about the weight but I do know they were proportionally similar in terms of height and length.

[pearl briar]

thx for the help man
very appreciated🫡

[storm heron]

I would assume their mass wouldn't be too different from each other since they do share similar proportions to an extent, as well as being overall similar in width, height and length.

[eager skiff]

What is maip macrothoax up to date weight?

[bright veldt]

3 tons

[eager skiff]

are u sure? Cuz ive seen ppl say 4 tons or 5 tons or 3.5 tons etc

[bright veldt]

I'm sure. It surprised me as well how light it is for a 10 meter theropod but that's what the most up-to-date estimate came out as.

[stiff osprey]

To be fair it's 3.something, not quite 4 tonnes but it's higher than a flat 3

[eager skiff]

Alright. Can i have like proof or something. I wanna prove em wrong lmao

[eager skiff]

Okay

[light osprey]

Daspletosaurus is more heavily built

[storm heron]

Both seem to be very similar in robustness and width.

[light osprey]

Skeletals aren’t proportionally accurate to each other. Daspletosaurus T is a bulkier animal

[pearl briar]

the shadow of death that kills with cold wind

[trim crag]

loses to grizzly bear

[trim crag]

Tyrannosaurus had great bulk and a tough hide, but it was a slow moving and slow thinking creature, compared to the agile grizzly with it's cunning and long-lasting energy, it might well win

[woeful falcon]

the bear's confidence is nothing short of admirable

[eager skiff]

Thank

[stoic tinsel]

its almost 4 tonnes for dasp and around 3.1 tonnes for albertosaurus

[light osprey]

Jeez the estimates have gotten huge

[heady thunder]

Isnt there an 11m dasp discovered too? Thats probably the 4 ton one.

[stoic tinsel]

nope

Pete 3 is between 10 and 11 meters but he doesnt really have a weight yet

[heady thunder]

What about this one?

[stoic tinsel]

thats pete III

[heady thunder]

Of ye me forgor the name. So the 4 ton estimate is for the average dasp then?

[stoic tinsel]

thats the bigger side average is somewhere near 3 tonnes

[heady thunder]

So Pete then should be around 4 tons or over.

[stoic tinsel]

likely larger

[white matrix]

Bro did not just say Rex was a slow thinker 💀

[heady thunder]

Its an old meme

[pearl briar]

new life on our planet poster

the sauropod is confirmed to be a diplodocus

[white matrix]

Oooo

[west solstice]

Oh yeah I remember these debates

[heady thunder]

Looks very nice, WAAY better then that Stephen Fry thing that happened.

[frigid coral]

is that what I think it is

GRASS?

[light osprey]

It’s official, life on our planet sucks smh

[covert lintel]

mm, grass, my favourite jurassic plant

[heady thunder]

Based grass.

[frigid coral]

grass is highly offensive, -10 documentary accuracy points for not ripping out all the grass in the picture and replacing it with ferns

[heady thunder]

Grass came in the Cretaceous right?

[scenic flame]

Shame the diplo is too jp-esc

[frigid coral]

yeah but even then wasn’t in fields like that (for most of the time) so it thereby sucks

[covert lintel]

yeah, early-to-mid cretaceous - took a while to get that common too, iirc

[frigid coral]

never watching life on our planet, 0/10

[heady thunder]

Timetravelling diplo spotted then

[frigid coral]

diplo the dimension hopper

[light osprey]

I mean. Could they have feasibly filmed at any real world location that actually looked like their paleo-environment?

[frigid coral]

well yes

[heady thunder]

I really like that diplo design tbh, wished it was more colorful, but big animals are usually boring grey, at least the mammal ones

[frigid coral]

they coulda just filmed in a place with no grass and conifer trees, wouldn’t be exact but it’s closer

also I’m joking abt not watching it, i don’t even care about the grass

[light osprey]

Where on earth could you find a semi-arid environment with coniferous plants exclusively??

[scenic flame]

The diplo's legs are way too chunky

[frigid coral]

idk figure it out

maybe in the imaginary Australia

[white matrix]

Emphasis on imaginary

[covert lintel]

i care a little about the grass but it's not exactly the end of the world, just a bit jarring.

[eager skiff]

im a paid actor

[heady thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/leg-day-final-space-avocato-gif-26183972

[white matrix]

Obviously

[eager skiff]

anyways, does anyone know camarasaurus weight and size?

[frigid coral]

big

[heady thunder]

Brachi is the best sauropod anyway, diplo is a close second tho.

[scenic flame]

Depending on the species, 17m and 19 tons

[eager skiff]

Alright, is that from the biggest species?

[white matrix]

Nah megalodon is the beast sauropod Quinkana is a close second

[frigid coral]

tbh im still waiting for a documentary that manages to accomplish a CGI environment

I’ve seen some pretty impressive works, curious how it’d work out with dinosaurs

[light osprey]

Technically it’s giraffatitan

[frigid coral]

Nuh uh

[heady thunder]

Nah theyre different, close but different, unless they changed it very recently.

[light osprey]

Brachiosaurus brancai = giraffatitan

[heady thunder]

So technically, giraffatitan is brachi not the other way around.

[light osprey]

technically the species everyone associated as being brachiosaurus is actually giraffatitan and nobody knows about the actual species of brachiosaurus altithorax

[heady thunder]

Even if it ends up as smth else, brachi will probably end up as their name again seeing brachi is old.

[stoic tinsel]

yeah but large fields of grass that we see today didnt appear until the cenozoic

[frigid coral]

brachi is older than it therefore giraffatitan is brachiosaurus

I dunno what’s so confusing

If a species is older than another and proved to be the same thing, then the older species becomes the name for them both

[light osprey]

But giraffatitan and brachiosaurus are not species they are genera

[frigid coral]

yes it applies to that as well afaik

[heady thunder]

Yeah, thats what happened to stygi and laten sadly

[frigid coral]

let me put this in simple terms

you have insert genera 1 and insert genera 2. If insert genera 1 is older than insert genera 2, then 2 takes the name of 1, and vise versa

[light osprey]

They are two distinct genera, why is one being referred to by the other’s genera?

[frigid coral]

you just said brachiosaurus isn’t distinct

[light osprey]

Nobody said that.

[frigid coral]

.

people referring to it as brachiosaurus are correct in that case

as it’s older

[light osprey]

That comment says that brancai is not a valid species and is in fact it’s own genus. Brachiosaurus still has a species called altithorax, but that’s not the animal most people are referring to when they say brachiosaurus

[frigid coral]

ah Alr I understand

[trim crag]

Slower than a bear

[vast narwhal]

Rex was a slow thinker

[white matrix]

No it was not lol

[short sigil]

Anyone know the sizes of the large carchs?

[storm heron]

Both animals here are around similar height and length (Sure, Albertosaurus is ~9m while the Daspletosaurus specimen here is 60cm longer). Albertosaurus being estimated to be around ~3266kg and Daspletosaurus being estimated to be around ~3000-3300kg.

[bright veldt]

There’s a lot of them

[storm heron]

So it is safe to say they are both similar in "bulk" to each other proportionally.

[trim crag]

proof?

[white matrix]

I met one in college and he was good at baseball

[trim crag]

fool, baseball is a sport for slow thinkers

[white matrix]

He was a master at hitting fastballs

[trim crag]

Mammals: ∞/Reptiles: 0

(i keep an unbiased and up to date track of how much better each clade is)

[white matrix]

Imagine not being a mammal tho

[trim crag]

i cant imagine that

[covert lintel]

honestly i think it's good for the chat to have a resident mammal-liker. keeps things fresh

[trim crag]

Indeed

[white matrix]

Imagine not being a homo sapien tho

[heady thunder]

The 2% Neanderthal in me is screaming rn

[light osprey]

Idk what to tell ya daspletosaurus Torosus is Like almost a ton heavier

[storm heron]

Is this reffering to the ~4000kg specimen of Daspletosaurus?

[light osprey]

The Pete specimen I believe yes

[storm heron]

So based on the information I have provided you, and your knowledge on the mass of "Pete iii", what do you think about Daspletosaurus size in comparison to Albertosaurus?

[keen forum]

Giga is like 8.7-9.7tons possibly 10.4( take that with a grain of salt )

TTT is 7.4-7.5tons

Carcharo is 7 - 8tons ( he's kinda a mess so anywhere between there )

And Acro is about 5.7-5.8 tons

[pearl briar]

where's mapu-
realizes mapu weight is undescribed
nvm

[stiff osprey]

Mapu probably weighs about as much as the Giga holotype, 8.7t

[light osprey]

A good comparative is gorgosaurus, which lived alongside daspletosaurus. You can compare their morphology and then get an accurate estimate on their respective “bulk”. Gorgosaurus and albertosaurus are sister taxon so it’s pretty easy to compare them as well. Anyway when comparing Daspletosaurus with gorgosaurus you’ll find that the latter is generally leaner in it’s proportions, especially visually apparent in the caudal vertebrae and the skull. So naturally despite being the same length and similar heights, daspletosaurus on average was a bit larger than gorgosaurus, and by extension albertosaurus. Infact I think gorgosaurus was slightly larger (than albertosaurus)?

[keen forum]

Fooking fat

So putting it in order of weight

You have

1. Giganotosaurus
2. Mapusaurus
3. Carcharodontosaurus
4. Tyrannotitan
5. Acrocanthosaurus
6. Meraxes

That should be all the large lads

[storm heron]

I compared the mass of the similar length + height specimens I posted above, and both have similar masses (9m + 3.3kg for Albertosaurus vs 9.6m + 3-3.3kg for Daspletosaurus). Similar size no? I'm not currently well versed with the length and mass of Gorgosaurus/A.libratus so I'm not sure about they compare.

If we use "Pete iii", all that will tell us is that the Daspletosaurus genus can get larger than Albertosaurus (This can change when more specimens are found). Also, we do not have a good idea on the "average" size of Daspletosaurus, as well as Albertosaurus (even with the amount of specimens we have).

[pearl briar]

did the smallest carcharodontosauridae goes into Concavenator?

[light osprey]

Sounds like a rather dubious weight for any of the Albertosaurus specimens seeing as liberatus is definitely larger and most likely did not exceed 3 tonnes.

[covert lintel]

dunno if conca is the smallest, but it's probably one of 'em. bit of a little guy. basal type of dude

[warm temple]

Eocarcharia?

[light osprey]

And by average I was referring to the range of weight we estimate not a direct average size. Sorry for confusion

[storm heron]

Its the result of a GDI of the specimen ROM 807, as seen above. I'm not sure about Gorgosaurus being larger but last time I check, both Gorgosaurus and Albertosaurus are rather similar in size.

[stiff osprey]

Lajasvenator and an unnamed Brazilian carcharodontosaur are both smaller than Concavenator, however neither is fully grown, so adults may have been larger than Conc

[warm temple]

Anyone got good giant hadrosaur size comparison?

[light osprey]

Similar, we still think liberatus is the largest species of albertosaurine. I suppose it’s within the realm of possibility that Albertosaurus could reach a weight of around 3.3 tonnes, but the Pete specimen (which I just starting looking into lol) was probably exceeding 4 tonnes making daspletosaurus’ weight range “on average” larger than albertosaurus.

[eager skiff]

Whats ttt?

[short sigil]

Sweet ty

[keen forum]

TyrannoTiTan and np

[eager skiff]

Okay

[storm heron]

I don’t think we have a good idea on the weight range on both animals just by knowing the mass of 3 specimens (there is definitely more than that for both animals).

Also we need to be careful in using the terms “weight range” and “average” together, as both terms have different meanings and imply different things.

[bright veldt]

Gorgo and Alberto are about the same weight. Daspleto was larger than both.

[light osprey]

I’m still pretty sure the largest gorgosaurus specimen is slightly heavier than the largest Albertosaurus

[bright veldt]

It’s negligible

[storm heron]

You mean Daspletosaurus can get larger than both.

[tough parcel]

That's what he said

[storm heron]

He said that Daspletosaurus is larger than both, which is only true if you take the largest specimen.

[tough parcel]

That's just semantics at that point

[light osprey]

That’s pretty much what everyone said

[storm heron]

Let me explain what I mean through an example: what do you consider to be bigger, humans or Jaguars?

[light osprey]

Jaguar (based on weight)

[white matrix]

Humans. Buff people weight more than buff jaguars

[light osprey]

Naturally? No

[white matrix]

Yes. Case closed

[keen forum]

stares at Pete 3 Yeah if that mount is right you have a 11m das, https://twitter.com/Mosasaurologist/status/1433827637579816962/photo/1 '

Anthony Maltese: Xiphactinus Superfan #1 (@Mosasaurologist)

Happy #FossilFriday from the tail of Pete III, a Daspletosaurus from the Judith River Formation of Montana

Bald curator for scale, thankfully tugging his shirt down to cover the gut.

Likes

473

Twitter · Sep 3, 2021, 4:22 PM

[bright veldt]

I think 10 meters is safe to assume at least

[light osprey]

So wait is he trying to say albertosaurus is the same size as daspletosaurus still?

[keen forum]

the largest estimate for ablerto is about 10m but even if its the same length as das, das would be a heavier built animal. Not counting that das can possibly break 10.5m in some scalings ( iirc you have alberto at like 3.2-3.4 tons to das's 4.1 )

[covert lintel]

jaguar weight can vary pretty heavily depending on the region, tbf; some of 'em average much lower than humans do
(i'm not sayin' jaguars overall have a lower or higher average weight than humans, just saying some of em can be pretty tiny)

[light osprey]

Damn I thought jaguar’s sat around 139-ish or something on the lower end

[bright veldt]

The largest population’s the third largest cats on earth. The smallest ones are smaller than puma.

[storm heron]

So, considering the variability between jaguar sizes, would it be correct to say that humans are bigger than jaguars?

[bright veldt]

If you’re trying to use this comparison on dinosaurs then there’s a problem with that

[light osprey]

No

And humans and jaguars are not even close to as comparable as daspletosaurus and albertosaurus

[covert lintel]

in some regions, jaguars are around 50 kg or so, while in others the males average out to around 95 kg. extremely large males can be a bit over 150 kg

[bright veldt]

You can reliably use averages on modern animals cause we have good sample sizes for them. With dinosaurs, and most extinct life for that matter, we don’t. Only exception I can really think of is ice age fauna and some dinosaurs like microraptor where you got dozens to hundreds of specimens. Using largest is just easier and more consistent all round for dinosaurs.

[neat drum]

pteranodon with its 1000s of specimens that let us determine it had sexual dimorphism

[bright veldt]

Yeah that’s another example where you can reliably get an average, but they’re exceptions in the grand scheme of things. Most taxa only got 1 specimen to their name.

[warm temple]

Carnotaurus and concavenator

[light osprey]

I wonder why that fella asked for the difference anyway? At least I learned the updated high estimates for dasp and alberto🤷

[neat drum]

to really gauge a population's size and whatnot you need 1000s of specimens from the exact timespan, something we dont get in fossils normally

and then you have animals with massive size ranges within a locale that seem to be due to random genetics

(i.e. sailfin mollies, who have a size range of mature adult specimens of the same sex in a single population of between 2 inches and 7 inches, often these individuals are siblings too)

[bright veldt]

Certain dinosaurs also have that, like plateosaurus and allosaurus.

The largest definitive allo specimen is immature while also being bigger than other actually mature allosaurus lol.

[neat drum]

inb4 allosaurus had chadly alpha individuals like many fish

also sizing for large theropods amuses me

everyone is so into "oh x is bigger than y" when reality is that in life, that size difference would not be noticable until you stuck both animals on a scale

when you get into multi-ton animals, half a meter of extra length and .4 tons of extra heft does not really show

we can make it look bigger than it actually is by using 2d t-posed skeletals, which dont take into account things like slouching, neck posture, etc etc etc etc that these animals would be doing in life

[stiff osprey]

i mean, in their normal posture they would have the same height as in the skeletals. that's the point
but humans don't have a built-in eye caliper, so you can't guess the height of a 1.5 story tall animal with a precision of 10-20 cm

[chilly knot]

Imagine coping over the like 100-300kg difference between Dasp, Alberto and Gorgo

[white matrix]

@leaden vigil

[leaden vigil]

Thats nuts, howd u find the correlation?

[white matrix]

Between what

[leaden vigil]

How did you find out that this was the cutout I mean.

[jagged trellis]

it just matches up pretty sure, like you can tell the outline of lets say batman if he fell thru a floor face down

[white matrix]

Veloccis video lol

[leaden vigil]

I mean yeah thats fair 😂 I recognized it as I saw it I just found it interesting how the original image was found or if someones lightbulb went off as soon as they saw the cut out or smth.

[scenic flame]

I mean... if we were using America..

[twin tapir]

Lajasvenator

[jagged trellis]

insert joke about the U.S not having the highest obesity rate( insert another joke about the U.S not being first for once while also toting a cannon on a mobility scooter eating Mcdonalds...per square inch of invasive species)

[restive mantle]

So I have a question about Yutyrannus does anyone know what the feathering on their for arms was like

[glacial blade]

likely just basal filamentous stage 1 feathers

[pearl briar]

oh this guy?
it's kinda cute

[little mauve]

https://www.miragenews.com/feathered-dinosaurs-had-relationship-with-989550/

[jagged trellis]

god the link being feathered dinosaurs had relationship, which implies unfeathered ones never get one, also cool new stuff

[vast narwhal]

Amber fossils are bad 👎

[little mauve]

The amber was ethically sourced

[jagged trellis]

( no amber was harmed in the making of this study ||Maybe||)

[bright veldt]

Yeah these are from Spain. It's the amber mines in Mayanmar you gotta be aware of

[frigid coral]

THIS IS SO COOL WAHT

[ancient crystal]

Does anyone know when blue sharks evolved? Literally no where I check tells me which is odd since normally I can at least find an ancestor or something

[vocal breach]

thoughts?

[frigid coral]

context?

[vocal breach]

these kinda lips for spinosaurids

[frigid coral]

I don’t think lips make much sense on some spinosaurids but this depiction is nice

[compact leaf]

if it's a trait basal to dinosaurs then they could still have them but spinosaurids could also get a bit more of a pass for liplessness than other theropods

[vast sparrow]

Why do sauropods have long life expectancies

[stiff osprey]

They need to have long lives to produce enough young to offset natural losses, since the vast majority of sauropods die before reaching adulthood

[vast sparrow]

Ok

[compact leaf]

big animals also have really good dna repair mechanisms in place so that they don't get riddled with cancer, long lifespan tends to come as a side effect of that

we don't fully understand how it works yet we just know it happens and helps cause a long lifespan

[worn jasper]

I recall seeing some joke drawing of how featherless raptor depictions were actually the result of them getting parasitized by feather-eating beetles or something. Funny to see this now

[pearl briar]

who is the largest avian raptors?

[light osprey]

Spinosaurids don’t really have any other specific adaptations in their skull for liplessness. I suppose it’s possible but a little unnecessary to evolve to not have lips

[vast narwhal]

Largest raptor was the haast's eagle of New Zealand that only went extinct about 600 years ago

Today it's the condor, or active hunting raptor that goes to the philippine eagle

[arctic lagoon]

So how do they know velociraptors had feathers? Is it a fact or educated guess?

[nocturne cairn]

velo itself has impressions that would be from feathers anchoring to the arm bone iirc, and there's evidence of feathers in related animals

[arctic lagoon]

Was there any Dino that would’ve been similar to the velos portrayed in Jurassic park?

[nocturne cairn]

in size, Achillobator or Utahraptor. without feathers, none

[elfin pulsar]

Depends what you mean

No dino had it’s arms like that for example, the raptors in jp have broken wrists

[jagged trellis]

tbh jp raptors are just naked with hands built for gaming, otherwise looks pretty much the same

[arctic lagoon]

Poor fellows in JP - I always figured it was just for shock value to make em scarier

[jagged trellis]

to be fair it was basically 100% accurate for the time, just alot changes in 30 years

[woeful falcon]

it was also time. that's a 30 year old movie

[elfin pulsar]

It’s a fact, pretty sure there is even a velociraptor fossil with feathers preserved

Well, feather impressions or whatever

[arctic lagoon]

Ah, honestly I was just watching the prehistoric planet episodes on Apple TV with David Attenborough cuz I heard new season coming out in may - saw the velo and I was like “Wait a damn second”

[woeful falcon]

The Velociraptors weren't that large mind you, they were basically really big Deinonychus with the name Velociraptor because it sounded more intimidating

[jagged trellis]

( also pretty sure the name thing was due to confusion on fossils and no formal agreements on le names so they just slapped one on)

[elfin pulsar]

Don’t most theropods have some sort of feathering

[arctic lagoon]

What’s a theropod? A species?

[woeful falcon]

no, it was just because it was more fierce sounding.

and conveniently Utahraptor was discovered not long after

[nocturne cairn]

idk how many theropods in general, but coelurosaurs likely have some amount of feathering

[woeful falcon]

Theropods are one of the big dinosaur groups, most associated with the carnivores. T. rex, Velociraptor, but also Gallimimus and Therizinosaurus

[arctic lagoon]

Utahraptor sounds like he should wear a cowboy hat - might have to make a meme lol

[stiff osprey]

If it's bipedal and has sharp hand claws, it's a theropod - generally works regardless if the theropod is a carnivore or not

[woeful falcon]

trueeee

[arctic lagoon]

Last question before I hit the hay, was the brachiosaurus not the largest of that species?

[woeful falcon]

of the sauropods? no. Argentinosaurus is currently the largest estimated sauropod, and dinosaur, and land animal ever.

[stiff osprey]

Brach's one of the tallest, maybe the tallest, but not nearly the longest or heaviest

[arctic lagoon]

Perfect, I can’t wait until Friday when my family gets on and I have all this confirmed intel to lord over their JP knowledge, thanks guys lol

[stiff osprey]

Okay Diogenes, slow down

Admittedly abelisaurs do break that rule, but you can't really mistake an abelisaur for any other kind of dinosaur lol

[woeful falcon]

Brachiosaurus is a lovely animal

[storm heron]

It was just a little joke

[woeful falcon]

what is that second one, some sort of Pachycephalosaurid?

[storm heron]

It has horns, it is clearly a Ceratopsian.

[woeful falcon]

oh true you are right. an offshoot ghost lineage clearly

[stiff osprey]

Ik, was referencing this

[storm heron]

Pfffft

[woeful falcon]

beaut

[scenic flame]

My favourite army general of prehistory

[storm heron]

Speaking of Pachycephalosaurids, I do remember there being some similarities shared between Carnotaurus and Pachycephelosaurids.