paleontology

[snow python]

What was Epanterias, a distinct genus or a big Saurophaganax individual?

[viscid surge]

Peak performance for a croc tbh

[pulsar star]

i want a more fat rex 😦

[sudden wind]

It's a range so I guess yeah

[cinder jewel]

Isn't Saurophaganax itself potentially just a really big Allosaurus individual?

[ruby geyser]

From what I remeber yes

[white matrix]

No

[ruby geyser]

Then I remeber wrong

[chilly knot]

Epanterias seems more similar to allosaurus

[heady thunder]

Nice, big croco.

[ocean drum]

In such a robust animal we wouldn’t really be able to see the gastralia for instance in. Both saurian and prehistoric planet the rexes do not have a rough belly’s also I never said you’d see it when I meant soft tissue for the pot rex I meant it’s not like saurians or prehistoric planets belly structures

[white matrix]

Sauro is not, Epan is a maybe

[covert lintel]

i don't really see it

[neat drum]

in the wild? unlikely, if it did it would be due to a hormone imbalance and usually spell and untimely demise as the animal is not healthy

obesity is really only seen in captive crocodillians who are fed large portions of high fat, high carb diets and are not given proper space or enrichment to exercise and maintain a proper build

[heady thunder]

So thats not a big healthy croc then, should have figured that one out by myself.

[charred gulch]

Sorry for the late reply but yes!

[ruby geyser]

Altoh,. It does not look that fat to me? Looks like a flat croc tbh

After they get to adulthood there is nothing that stops them from eating anything anyway..

Those two should be wild ones and .. they look chonky as well

[neat drum]

notice how those croc's rear legs are not shrank into the body? theres a difference between a healthy chunk(bull crocodillians get very bulky since they often deal with a lot of fighting, more bulk = less injury) and an obese chunk

those cheek pads are actually weaponized fat and normal in large bulls, they provide handles that they grab in combat to avoid more serious injury, im talking more about the fat tail and large belly thats obviously more than just a big meal

[heady thunder]

Yeah the tail gives away if theyre obese or just chonky lel.

[jagged trellis]

correct, its either built for a fighting ring or the mcdonalds play place after downing a buildings worth of burgers, or the best case: a water system to chill in

[little mauve]

https://www.livescience.com/clever-bird-like-dinosaurs-that-lived-74-million-years-ago-got-cozy-in-communal-nests-study-suggests Troodontid news

[white matrix]

Finally. Some actual news.

[novel atlas]

https://vxtwitter.com/WobblyWorks/status/1643263093294911490?t=XZTzjaQEjQLW96aNU_65XQ&s=19

[novel atlas]

https://twitter.com/anatrecord/status/1643278169594802176?s=46&t=5Lf1o1A4I56SbD7YTefWeA

The Anatomical Record (@AnatRecord)

Massive cranial pathology in an Asian armoured dinosaur suggests it survived a tyrannosaur attack! https://t.co/ezsTqscBXa
CTs of Mongolian ankylosaurid skulls unveiled significant internal differences from N. American taxa, incl. mineralized concretions & airway/sinus anomalies

Likes

111

Twitter · Apr 4, 2023, 3:43 PM

[little mauve]

Very cool x2

Survived the bite/injury but likely died from a sinus infection, what a way to go

[heady thunder]

Headshots do in fact cause more dmg lel

[rose thorn]

I’ve wondered about ankylosaur headbutting, just never seen it depicted

[little mauve]

Arbour found pathologies concentrated in the hip region of Zuul she attributed to possible intraspecific combat, but iirc did not include other ankylosaurs in the study. Would be interesting to see how those pathologies are distributed in different species, like you say some may have been head butters

[torn sluice]

Is the concave part of the raptor family

[heady thunder]

No, its a charc

[jagged trellis]

no, pretty sure its a carchar allosaurid relative....or in that zone, dunno the specifics

[covert lintel]

it's a carcharodontosaurid (small one)

[dusky prairie]

Well at the end of the day we don’t know how fast Dino’s we’re and we don’t 100% know how they move and we likely never will. All we can do is speculate and in terms of a Dino video game it shouldn’t be realistic it should be cool and fun above all else.

[heady thunder]

Thats why I love bipedal Iggy.

[snow python]

Are there any skin impressions found from a carcharodontosaurid or spinosaurid ?

[compact leaf]

none so far

in terms of larger theropods we pretty much have carnotaurus, tiny fragments from rex, and yutyrannus

[white matrix]

That’s not true

Example number 69420 of people just saying paleo is speculation

[bright veldt]

Yeah that annoys me. Like what’s the point about asking how something was irl if people go “it doesn’t matter cause we’ll never know everything” in the end? It’s being overly dismissive.

[little mauve]

we all have an image in our head of how dinosaurs really were, it'll never be totally accurate, but in my opinion it should definitely be based as much as possible in the real evidence. Otherwise you're better off studying living creatures or inventing fantasy creations

[rose thorn]

[little mauve]

And analogies are one thing, but it's similarly irking when one simply "reskins" a modern animal (frequently a mammal) with a dinosaur and calls it a day. Dinosaurs were totally unique and cool animals with a tremendous amount of mystery, Triceratops wasn't just a big scaly buffalo for example.

[bright veldt]

Except megalania. It’s literally just a giant monitor lizard.

[covert lintel]

we may not know how every dinosaur moved, and likely never will, but like. we literally do know how fast some dinosaurs were, and how they achieved those speeds, is the thing. fossilized trackways, examining how muscles attached to bones, the size of the muscles and bones in question... all of these things (and probably more that i'm forgetting or don't know about) can help estimate a dinosaur's speed. it's not perfect, of course, as methods change over time, but it's far from being so unreliable that it should just be automatically dismissed. it's good information

[rose thorn]

Borealopelta, Sinosauropteryx, Edmontosaurus, Psittacosaurus, and Microraptor would all like a word if you’re talking about physical image

[bright veldt]

Which reminds me, fun fact if you didn’t know, Sand Goannas of Australia were found to have Komodo dragon DNA in their genepool, which must’ve been from when Komodo dragons inhabited Australia 300+ thousand years ago. Makes me wonder if any goanna populations interbred with megalania but we don’t know cause we don’t have any megalania dna to compare it to.

[little mauve]

Metaphorical image, i.e. the "full picture" of appearance, lifestyle, behavior, et al

[rose thorn]

Honestly, still applies as we know a good percentage of that too. Most notably being appearance anyway

[little mauve]

Will always amount to a patchwork until we have a time machine, the point is that we can have a strong evidence based structure or a loosey goosey one. With those & other examples we are obviously working from a much stronger chunk of information, but even animals we can directly observe today surprise researchers all the time & contain countless mysteries in their own lives anatomy & behavior. Bottom line it's the methods & the rigor of those methods that gets us closest to the truth

[wind prairie]

we'll never have a time machine

[fallen steppe]

(nowhere in the near future at least)

[light osprey]

Though this would be the perfect place to ask this question, but what are the length, height, and weight estimates for daspletosaurus and albertosaurus respectively?

[bright veldt]

In terms of weights: Albertosaurus is 3 tons while Daspletosaurus is 3.5 tons.

[tough parcel]

Gorgosaurus weighs in at 12 tons 💪

[light osprey]

Thanks, I’ve been putting in research for the PT mod, nautilus being the mysterious man wasn’t very helpful in comparing their sizes. Glad to know my suspicions that they were quite close in size are correct 👍

[bright veldt]

👍

[heady thunder]

Ive heard around here that there was a 40 ft Dasp, was that just a rumor or is there material that suggests a dasp of that size?

[bright veldt]

No. Not even close.

[hasty wharf]

Yeah.

If you ever wonder how megalania looked liked, sounded like, and what color it was, just look at monitor lizards B)

They also lived in Australia, why am I not surprised.

[jagged trellis]

they also straight up lived with humans so that helps abit, also nic pfp

[little mauve]

RMDRC 06-005 is almost 11 meters and the largest specimen of Daspletosaurus
https://rmdrc.blogspot.com/2016/05/pete-iii-finished-for-now.html?m=1

[heady thunder]

So, it exists, W. Thnx man

[little mauve]

You're welcome, it's not 40 feet though. 11 meters = 36 feet still a very big fella

[heady thunder]

11m is way better then 9m, so Ill take it lel.

[vast narwhal]

So this is an old and controversial topic, but I wanna hear your guys opinion on whether the fact that Saber tooth tigers teeth were covered by lips or were always visible

[stoic tinsel]

likely lips partially covering the canines like modern cats, some tigers with exceptionally large canines they poke out a bit so its likely a similar case with machairodontines just more extreme

[stoic tinsel]

anyway, very sad

[restive mantle]

Woah they had a lot more historic range than I thought

[stoic tinsel]

this doesnt take into account fossilized remains either fyi

Panthera tigris has an even wider range if you take into account fossilized remains found in places like Japan, and possibly Alaska

[neat drum]

Its fangs poked out, but the extended fangs of smilodon is due to tooth slippage, when you push the teeth back into the skull and add normal big cat lips, it looks p normal

And species like homotherium would not have had visible fangs since their teeth, while enlarged, easily fit under their lips

[small geyser]

Anton does such amazing work on saber toothed cats.

[neat drum]

He does, also noticed this piece isnt water marked

Art by Marcuio Anton, hes a god of felid paleoart

but yeah, cat canine teeth have extremely long roots and go wayyyy into the skull, so even a normal looking cat, if the tooth slips out, looks sabertoothed

[small geyser]

Care to explain the thumbs down, Falcon?

[wind prairie]

no, never. That's not how things work

what's the deal with thylacosmilus? I hear its mouth can't even open wide enough to use its saber teeth to full effectiveness, and I hear some people say it had a long tongue or it was parasitic it's just all over the place

also yeah what's wrong with Anton's art? it seems to be some of the only consistent high quality cenozoic paleoart I see

[fallen steppe]

i was more referring to time travel in general (could work somehow we dont know for sure but this isnt on topic anyways)

[stiff osprey]

even if time travelers do show up in the future, the fact they didn't come to Stephen Hawking's party proves they're not people you want to associate with

as for Thylacosmilus, it has a suite of contradictory adaptations so no one really knows what it's doing

definitely not parasitic though lmao

[storm heron]

Wonder if Tigers ever inhabited Sri Lanka.

[wary heath]

they did

[stoic tinsel]

like pixel said yeah they did they lived all over asia

kinda sad how small the ranges of panthera are

every species of the genus has faced a huge amount of shrinkage in their native ranges

[heavy prairie]

So smilodon only had a bit of teeth poking out right ? Could someone tell how much exactly cuz I wanna make more art of sabertooth cats lol

[stoic tinsel]

like this

[heavy prairie]

Thanks !

[stoic tinsel]

fun fact the largest recorded leopard is smaller than the largest recorded puma

[storm heron]

What where the largest recorded leopard found and how large was it

[slim ridge]

Leopards are kinda like brown bears in a sense that they vary ridiculous amounts between populations and sexes.
Arabian leopards being the smallest leopards out there with specimens getting to 30-33 Kg.

I think the largest recoded one is 96 Kg from what i quickly read here so ye

[storm heron]

Which subspecies would that individual belong to ?

[slim ridge]

South African individual

[storm heron]

I see, I remember reading from somewhere that the largest leopard individuals usually belong to African, Indian, and Sri Lankan subspecies.

[slim ridge]

https://cdn.britannica.com/86/189986-050-6742016F/Leopard-Panthera-pardus-geographic-range-Africa-Asia-2019.jpg

Funny leopard historic range, tho during the Pleistocene they did get even further West, through pretty much the entirety of Europe

[storm heron]

They had a huge range, oh how the mighty have fallen

[frozen zealot]

rip

[sudden wind]

Die

[heady thunder]

They still are the most distributed big cat iirc.

[trim crag]

Largest recorded leopard to my knowledge is 115 kg

An exceptionally large male leopard of the Persian subspecies, named Alborz. He was sighted with severe injuries to his paws, legs and spine, rendering him basically fatally crippled, and as the image states subsequent investigations on him showed he was 115 kg. It's likely due to how long he was injured that he was not at a healthy weight so it's likely he weighed even more. (Spoiler because it's kinda depressing)

[trim crag]

The largest recorded puma (to my knowledge) is smaller than Alborz plus it was found in 1901, and generally leopards are more bulky and have much thicker and broad snouts and skulls than puma

[heady thunder]

RIP biggest boi

[trim crag]

Indeed, although I must say his severe injuries combined with the harsh environment of Iran really goes to show the endurance and raw power of big cats

[heady thunder]

Big cats are awesome

[slim ridge]

Aye, they rlly only need climable surfaces, food and water. If that’s there, they can exist given that people don’t actively hunt them down.

[trim crag]

They don't even need climbable surfaces in parts of their range due to the lack of competition

Also fun fact, leopards are the only pantherines still found in Europe. Persian leopards can be found in Turkiye and the Caucasus as well as in the Middle East. However during the Pleistocene epoch there was a different (now extinct) subspecies of leopard that lived in Europe, Panthera pardus spelaea

[chilly knot]

I was confused, but I highly assume it's not Panthera spalaea (cave lion)

[slim ridge]

He did say Panthera Pardus Spalaea

O wait it was edited disregard my comment

[trim crag]

Yeah Panthera spelaea was the Eurasian cave lion, Panthera pardus spelaea was the Pleistocene cave leopard. The difference between the 2 by their names is that despite both being in the Panthera genus, the cave lions species name is P. spelaea whereas the cave leopards species name is Panthera pardus, it's just the subspecies name that's different. Some examples of other subspecies names are Panthera pardus tulliana (Persian leopard) or Panthera leo melanochaita, the modern East and South African lions

[heady thunder]

They couldnt have named the cave lion panthera leo spelaea? Or is the cave lion a different species and not a sub

[trim crag]

Yeah it's a different species, although their closest relative is believed to be modern lions. It was actually once considered a subspecies of lion but more recent scientific developments classify it as its own species

[heady thunder]

Is the fossil material distinct enough to make the cave lion a different species or was genetic differences the deciding factor?

[trim crag]

iirc it was genetic material combined with fossil material but I'd have to look that up again

Yeah it was both, study of fossilized skulls along with study of genetic material from preserved specimens

Interestingly isotopic analyses have been done on them and it has been determined in parts of their range they preferred to hunt caribou and bear cubs as their main prey while in other parts of their range they hunted horses and bison as preferred prey

[heady thunder]

There must have been a lot of bears to make their cubs a staple of their diet lol

[chilly knot]

Fossilis is the chaddest here, rivaling S. populator in size (some spelaea specimens as well?)

[trim crag]

Yeah it's believed some exceptionally large specimens could rival S. populator in size although I still believe S. populator was the largest cat and P. t. soloensis was the largest pantherine

[alpine summit]

Raptor hands? Are the hands of feathered dinosaurs (like Utahraptor, Deinonychus, Velociraptor as examples) covered in feathers like the rest of their arms? Or are their hands scaly like their feet?

Asking because I need to know for an art project.

[neat drum]

Yes and no, most likely

The primary feathers go down most of the second finger, and there is evidence iirc that two of the fingers were at least partially fused, this part of the hand would likely be covered in down

The other finger and the "palm" of the hand could go scuted like bird feet, fuzzy(if we go by the hoatzin, which has claws as a juvenile, their fingers have tiny down on em), or just nakey with thickened skin sorta like how ostriches do

[alpine summit]

Very interesting, I really appreciate the information, thanks!

[zealous hull]

wait why did shantungosaurus grow so large

[cinder jewel]

It's exceptional predator deterrence to be massive. As long as the environment can feed you.

[heady thunder]

Gigachad syndrome.

[zealous hull]

huh

[neat drum]

there are many reasons to get big, and for hadrosaurs it seems that being big was their main defense against predators, most hadrosaurs got as big or bigger than their predators, which would make them harder to take down

however being big also lets you reach and eat more food(though this comes with the tradeoff of being vulnerable to droughts and periods of poor growth)

[zealous hull]

but they became sauropod sized because of tarbo idk abt zrex

ooh they lived with an unnamed Tyrannosaurid

[stiff osprey]

Tarbo didn't live with Shantungosaurus, only zhucheng

[neat drum]

important to note that while shant is the biggest hadrosaur, its not the biggest by much, edmontosaurus rivals it in size

also shantungosaurus seems to have lived with a large variety of hadrosaurs, so it also likely got big to avoid competition

[zealous hull]

oh

[little mauve]

Digestive efficiency increases in a hindgut fermenter like a dinosaur as it gets larger too

giant hadrosaurs may have hit similar biological limits as other giant hindgut fermenters like elephantids & indricotheres and top out at similar sizes

[neat drum]

many reasons to be a big boi hadrosaur indeed

[little mauve]

yeah my guess is their size increase is what mainly drove the tyrannosaurid size increase, not the other way around

[stiff osprey]

wonder if sauropods had digestive adaptations currently unseen in animals

[little mauve]

They did to some extent, the lack of oral processing means they probably retained plant matter in their guts for even longer than typical hindgut fermenters. The microbes in there breaking it down must have been pretty frothy

I bet their salivary glands were pretty powerful too, hard to get a huge unchewed bolus of conifer needles down that neck without plenty of lubrication

[alpine island]

I've been seeing people start capping a lot for hadrosaurs and saying that they'd demolish their contemporary predators in a fight, and ngl while I love seeing the view finally shift from them being defenseless meatbags, its just a shift in the other direction and its gonna be tiring seeing the same arguments

[little mauve]

Yeah I see that a lot too for sure

[slim ridge]

Nuance exists and people forget that yes, but it’s not strange to see internet things swinging from one extreme to the other, it be the way of things

[alpine island]

They always use the "real life herbivores can beat their predators" argument, ignoring how most herbis are in an entirely different weight class from modern day carnis. It doesn't quite hold up when plenty of theropods were a similar size to their contemporary hadrosaurs

[little mauve]

I feel like they come at it from a mammal-centric perspective too often too wrt to those arguments

[tough parcel]

YES, THANK YOU

They also seem to ignore that most, if not all, herbivores often run from their predators and when they do fight back, it's kinda when cornered (or if it's during the chase, the whole herd fights back rarely)

[tulip dove]

With some, you could say that they kinda demolish their predators, like Para and what tyrannosaurid it lived with but saying something like Edmonto would destroy a Rex no diff is kinda bs

[little mauve]

I can't help but see the similar size ratios of large eagles & large geese compared with tyrannosaurs & hadrosaurs. Eagles hunt the geese by spooking them into a stampede and picking off the injured, adults or otherwise

[slim ridge]

Aye preferably you’d avoid fighting entirely.
Predators prefer things that can’t fight back as effectively because they want to prevent injury to themselves.
In that regard they’re prolly similar to modern day animals in that they’d just do what normal predators and prey do.
Ofc cornered prey will fight back and might even pull off an escape but that’s just a situational type deal.

[little mauve]

There's an assumption that large dinosaurs would automatically have similar temperaments to large mammals but there's no real reason to believe that

[alpine island]

Its just a part of people assigning traits of similarly sized modern animals to long gone ones, but its really annoying seeing it prop up out of nowhere

[tough parcel]

Keep in mind "large mammal temperament" doesn't mean 24/7 murder hobo. That's a select few and even then, they'll run from predators often

[little mauve]

Absolutely, making it even less likely that hadrosaurs or ceratopsids were murder hobos (lol) either

[coral hamlet]

can anyone tell me the use for the weird horn on a lambeosaurus head? and does it work like the one on a Parasaurolophus?

[slim ridge]

A lot of those behaviors are also speculative because it’s kinda hard to actually know those things.

[alpine island]

Hadrosaur biology is better understood than most families but it is still very limited in the grand scheme of things

[slim ridge]

Like I doubt hadrosaurs were like fin whales in that they just don’t fight back at all when caught, but I also don’t expect them to be hippo’s.

[tough parcel]

They go hjronk for social displays and communication, all crested hadrosaurs likely did this

[neat drum]

hadrosaur's sheer size as an adult likely kept them off the menu by proxy

no predator is going to go after the Meat Wall when there are plenty of Meat Stepping Stones next to it

[frozen basin]

Funny resonance go brrrr

[frigid coral]

hadrosaurs def weren’t fodder but they weren’t going to be the bane of literally everything that crossed it’s path

embarrassing typo go brr

[coral hamlet]

I wonder why they all have different shapes if one is so effective?

[little mauve]

Different tune for different folks, aka species recognition

[neat drum]

that said, i doubt being bit by a hadrosaur would be a fun time

take some toenail clippers and cut holes in your skin, now imagine that but its more your size and also very pissed off

[tulip dove]

Probably to differentiate it from other hadrosaurs, seeing as there were many different hadrosaurs living at the same time iirc

[slim ridge]

I mean if you look at birds and see the wide variety of ornaments and songs even within different populations of the same species of bird, it’s all about what they find sexy

[little mauve]

Love the idea of mating season in hadrosaur country with all the different songs going on at the same time

[tough parcel]

What gbones said, it differs from species to species due to individual sexual selection, females likely loved one crest or sound vs another. It also helped differentiate hadrosaurs between each other considering many were contemporary

[coral hamlet]

that makes sense yeah

[slim ridge]

When in doubt it is Rizz

[little mauve]

makin' bacon

[white matrix]

Some like Parasaurolophus used the crest to attract mates, but it was also used to differentiate individuals.

[rose thorn]

All in all a developed method of communication, interspecies recognition, and sexual display. Big crested individuals made overall deeper sounds, which further differentiates members of a given herd. I like to think that a herd of Para, Lamb, and Corythosaurus would be a very noisy affair

[white matrix]

Yeah each species had their unique sounds

[cinder jewel]

I trust someone named sound blast to know about sounds. Wrap it up folks we've peaked.

[white matrix]

it's true that therizinosaurus had fragile claws?

[frigid coral]

yes

[heady thunder]

Werent they like, bad at stabbing good at slashing? Or the opposite I cant remember

[tough parcel]

Opposite, but if you stabbed something, that something is gonna thrash and break your claws regardless lmao

[heady thunder]

Did they regrow tho? Also, it depends how well you stab it

[little mauve]

The recent study on therizinosaurian claws basically showed the ungals' functional performance rapidly decreases with size

[white matrix]

So they must have used their beak and tail more as a form of defense, since the claws are fragile it would break if they used against predators

[hallow spear]

THERES A NEW STUDY?

[little mauve]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9935540/ Yes

[rose thorn]

Assuming what it stabbed wasn’t a vital organ and the creature doesn’t just die on the spot

[little mauve]

Non-functional claws can still be good for a bluff, especially if the owner is many meters tall

[rose thorn]

Alvarezsaurs out here with the most functionally stable claws but too small to fight back

[little mauve]

They could zoom with the best of them

[novel atlas]

Mind you that Therizinosaurus did actually live in an environment with several predators at multiple size ranges as it grew. So it may have actually needed to use those claws, since keratinous structures on said claws would have made them much stronger.

[heady thunder]

Theri goes rage mode and pins the local predator to a tree.

[tough parcel]

No, keratin grows with the claw shape. It'd be the same general thing

[neat drum]

just claw at your foe, nothing likes being scratched up, you dont need lethal force to be able to defend yourself

[trim crag]

I'd like to imagine the claws combined with an amount of feathers would have been a threat display like a fringehead

[west solstice]

Stupid question, but do you guys think it'd make any sense for the larger raptors to have actually had scales after all? Or at least some (like the discovery of how you had Utahraptor with scaly skin impressions, and how in other coelurosaurs had scaly skin if they were larger like T-Rex)

[tough parcel]

The scales are not 100% attributed to Utahraptor + rex scales were only found in dime-sized patches on an 8 ton animal, hardly evidence for 100% scaly

[west solstice]

Nah that's fair; Personally I like the 'Luis V Rey' take, in that you have 'both' or can have both.

Like how some of the subspecies via Primordial Tyrants can have a 'mix'

[little mauve]

A different study showed that adding keratin sheaths showed little to no increase in performance

even with a keratin covered structure, bone is the thing really absorbing the forces

[novel atlas]

You'd also have to consider that this animal lived with Tarbosaurus (which, apparently, had no issues with hunting Ankylosaurs), it would need to use its claws to defend itself at one point in its life.

[heady thunder]

Nah, it gave the Tarbo back scratches, tarbo said thanks and it went away.

[little mauve]

Not necessarily, we really have no idea what options were available to it with respect to defense. The evidence currently shows the claws were poor weapons, that's all we know

Deinocheirus had much more functional claws, and Tarbosaurus was preying on them as well

perhaps people overestimate claws as a defensive structure in general?

[jagged trellis]

idk from my experience they work well enough, perhaps the claws would be more stabilizing onto a attack( or the real answer is they used em for more powerful Tposes), even then therizinos didn't exactly have the best mouth parts for harm if i remember correctly

[novel atlas]

To be fair, they are massive claws on the animals hands. You'd really use them to pull plants up to your mouth and some defensive capabilities.

Not saying they fought every single day of their lives, but they are meter long claws.

[little mauve]

with therizinosaurus specifically, this study suggests they weren't useful for feeding either. They were tall, had a long neck, that could have been enough potentially

[ancient crystal]

Ofc dinosaurs wouldn't have a concept of how structurally sound theri claws were.

If I were a predator and a giant angry chicken started wiggling giant sickle fingers in my face I'd leave it well alone

[little mauve]

Our minds kind of naturally leap to looking at things as weapons, it's human nature frankly, but these kinds of studies show the stresses the structures can actually handle as a way of determining that. This one showed that therizinosaurus in particular, had claws poorly adapted to stresses of any kind

[jagged trellis]

ah just like me, just remove the claws part of it

[little mauve]

this is a sound hypothesis, and one the authors included. The threat may have been visual in nature

[rose thorn]

I doubt it had no issue. Mind you that ankylosaurs, especially Asian species, are spiky rock tables with a wrecking ball for a tail. Compound said width with the likelihood of them digging shallow burrows to fortify that defense and Tarbo’s not gonna have any fun trying to coax it up/out

Ik the recent Tarchia skull shows that Tarbo did at least try, but I don’t think the animal died from the bite if I’m not mistaken

[novel atlas]

We just found a skull that a Tarbosaur bit into...which healed. Apparently, it was enough food for a Tarbo to consider.

https://twitter.com/anatrecord/status/1643278169594802176?s=46&t=5Lf1o1A4I56SbD7YTefWeA

The Anatomical Record (@AnatRecord)

Massive cranial pathology in an Asian armoured dinosaur suggests it survived a tyrannosaur attack! https://t.co/ezsTqscBXa
CTs of Mongolian ankylosaurid skulls unveiled significant internal differences from N. American taxa, incl. mineralized concretions & airway/sinus anomalies

Likes

627

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157

Twitter · Apr 4, 2023, 3:43 PM

[rose thorn]

The Tarbo could have been a young animal testing the waters or a stupidly desperate one with no other really viable option

[novel atlas]

It still did try it, and we have an injury to show it. If a Therizinosaurus were attacked by one desperate Tarbo, I have no doubt it would try and fight back if it could, stresses considered or not.

[jagged trellis]

if i'm being attacked by a bootleg rex i'm gonna try and fend it off anyway i can, including breaking my human sized nails

[neat drum]

Dumb question but any evidence of woodpeckers/woodpecker-like animals in the mesozoic?

[novel atlas]

Biting, clawing, stabbing, anything.

[neat drum]

Thinkin bout the woodpecker nest in the wildebeast horn, imagine that with a ceratopsian

[jagged trellis]

probably more woodpeckers if i had to guess, prolly got some archives in their granaries and special trees

[cinder jewel]

I think it's also important to remember that while it certainly could have been a one-off act of desperation from one starving tarbosaurus, it's much more likely that a regularly occuring event is recorded in the fossil record. Just based on sheer probability of a rare event happening to fossilize vs a common one

[rose thorn]

Based off the one isotope study done, there was at least one Tarbosaur that had a taste for ankylosaur meat vs. everything else.
That very well could mean though it snagged young, comparatively softer, Tarchia/Saichania vs. fully armored adults.

[light osprey]

One the topic of therizinosaur defense, if I’m not mistaken the stress simulations showed that the animal may have been capable of stabbing or piercing?

[rose thorn]

New stress study is above

[little mauve]

How large is the Tarchia with the head injury, anybody got the full paper so we could get a specimen #?

[rose thorn]

Actually I’m curious too, @tough parcel think you can scale Tarchia and Tarbo

[tough parcel]

Guh??

Maybe, give me the images

[rose thorn]

Idk which Tarchia species to use
Or if any skeletal comes with a scale bar

[little mauve]

The holotype is apparently 5.5 meters, but there's another specimen that may be 6 or more

There's more than one described skull, however, and I don't know which one this injury was found in

[rose thorn]

T. tumanovae

[heady thunder]

Spiky pancake

[novel atlas]

I...do admit, maybe having massive knives for hands make them pretty bad weapons. However, I think we can agree, in a pinch, a Theri wouldn't be afraid to use them.

[little mauve]

I think tumanovae may be referred to Saichania now maybe not lol, ankylosaurs are so confusing

[rose thorn]

Tarbo MPC-D 107/2, 1m scale

Which is about an average Tarbo, not gonna talk about the one random giant

[little mauve]

Ankylosaurs wouldn't have had such intense armor if they weren't under tremendous pressure from predators, they were far from immune to the walking can opener

[rose thorn]

It’s no wonder they are so wide

[novel atlas]

Ankylosaurus' body was specifically built to counter Tyrannosaurus jaws.

[heady thunder]

Im curious, would like, a bite to the head from the tarbo kill the sachania or did the armor there made that not possible.

[rose thorn]

Then there’s giant tail clubs found that we aren’t entirely sure as to who they belong to

[little mauve]

would depend on the individuals involved

[heady thunder]

The two that are in the skeletal above.

[rose thorn]

Saichania’s even wider then Tarchia (the one in the skeletal)

[jagged trellis]

my guess is it'd hurt but not be a 1 shot seeing the spikes and general armor there

[heady thunder]

I said a headshot

[little mauve]

Big trouble for the Tarchia, for sure

provided the Tarbosaurus can keep its legs from getting whacked

[rose thorn]

Based off the skull we found and assuming it was a tyrannosaur attack, it’d hurt, but didn’t precisely kill the animal

[light osprey]

How tall is tarbosaurus?

[rose thorn]

Thing is that the shape of later ankylosaurs’ skulls actually makes it harder for tyrannosaurs to get a grip and they end up sliding off

[neat drum]

ankylosaurs are just a giant middle finger to tyrannosaurs, the pangolin to their leopard

[rose thorn]

Literally

[heady thunder]

Couldnt they just, crush it? How much pressure can the ankylosaur skulls take?

[little mauve]

A big enough Tarbosaur could I'm sure

[rose thorn]

How do you crush what you can’t grip? If it were that simple, I think we’d have found a noticeably damaged skull by now

[neat drum]

ankylosaurs are designed in such a way as to basically avoid being crunched, either being too wide for enough force to be generated, or sloped in a manner that makes the bite just slide off and away, scratches are better than crunches

[heady thunder]

Hmmm, I imagine an anky tucking its head under to get it out of harms way, that probably made it even more difficult.

[tough parcel]

Good luck, the necks aren't that flexible

[neat drum]

and their tail is basically just a giant solid bone so not going to do much to it, their plates hurt and deter gripping bites to attempt to roll the thing and deter being kicked and stepped on

doesn't mean tyrannosaurs didn't try, or didn't succeed, just not exactly an easy meal

[heady thunder]

Now Im thinking if that TRex vs Anky move was possible irl.

[little mauve]

In the image Gualicho posted, the head of the Tarbosaur is perfectly sized to seize the Tarchia by the head & neck. Avoid the tail, don't bother biting the body, it's the clear weak point imo

[neat drum]

also most of em are just Tables, wide and flat, which makes em very hard to flip

[rose thorn]

Tfw Tsagantegia is apparently a browser totally not forgetting that they basically have giraffe tongues

[compact leaf]

this is also assuming that an ankylosaur wouldn’t just charge if it’s head was under attack and it couldn’t use the tail

[little mauve]

I imagine its MO was to get the tail out in front of any predator, fighting backwards as it were, but the Tarbosaur is going to be much more agile

[neat drum]

basically gotta lift the thing all the way over onto its side to get enough leverage to push it over onto its back, tyrannosaurs are strong but thats a lotta weight to heave, especially when that weight is wiggling around and trying to turn your nose into powder with its club

[little mauve]

Plant your foot, rip the head off

[compact leaf]

you can’t rip the head off if you can’t grip it

[heady thunder]

Imagine witnessing that first hand

[rose thorn]

Biting this would be fuggin painful bruh

[light osprey]

I doubt tarbosaurus even possessed the musculature to pull that off

[neat drum]

did you miss the part where the head is hard to bite down on and also spiked to all hell?

same with the neck and shoulders, thing is a fortress

[little mauve]

It was a fortress because tyrannosaurs were so good at taking them down

[neat drum]

not invincible, but it was definately an animal that tyrannosaurs had to use their brains to deal with, since you cant just brute force em

[rose thorn]

They literally developed two to three rings of bone around their necks with the express purpose of protection lmao

[heady thunder]

Whose got the money to make a realistic head and neck of a tarchia and the head of a tarbo with a hydraulic press so we can test it lel

[neat drum]

it also wouldn't surprise me if they had some soft tissue adaptations for dealing with impact and high stress

[little mauve]

would love to see that lol

[neat drum]

stuff like organ padding and whatnot

[little mauve]

Probably, they were apparently whacking eachother as much as they were predators. Lots of pathologies that indicate it

[rose thorn]

Considering they walloped against each other with their clubs, their bodies at least definitely did

[jagged trellis]

i mean someone paid to have a machine be similar to use power to see if a large Azhdarchidae could bust a human rib cage with a fist slam...and it could so i don't doubt someone trying it with this ordeal

[rose thorn]

Did it?

[jagged trellis]

yes, i can't remember where i had seen it but it happened, even worked with armor on the ribcage

[heady thunder]

Hope so

[rose thorn]

I feel like the answers obvious enough considering that an ostrich kick can do similar damage and they’re a fair margin smaller. The punch from a 300kg flying animal would def kill a person

[heady thunder]

Did the pterosaurs hand brake tho or it didnt care

[jagged trellis]

it didn't show anything of breaking from what i remember but my guess is a sore hand if the food is in a can

[novel atlas]

GMOD BODY CLIPPING INTO FLOOR SOUND

[safe forum]

Which torvosaurus sub species tanneri or gurneyi was bigger?

[bright veldt]

It’s species, not subspecies. T. tanneri and T. gurneyi we’re about the same size.

[safe forum]

Ok thank you for telling me

[pine harness]

Tanneri

[torn sluice]

What's the larger species of stego?

[stark pasture]

Stegosaurus ungulatus is bigger

[torn sluice]

Was it confirmed being added to POT? Because if I recall a larger stego like that should be able to keep up against rexs and such

[woeful falcon]

It's already added. Species in PoT don't change sizes. So while all the Stegosaurus species are there, they're not exactly like their irl counterparts

[stoic tinsel]

iirc isnt stegosaurus ungulatus likely synonymous with stegosaurus stenops?

[hallow spear]

It’s complicated

It should be nomen dubium, or a nomen nudem by definition

[torn sluice]

Isn't it like nearly double the size. I'm assuming it's the speed one cause their plates look the same

[woeful falcon]

Best to realize that species in PoT generally are only the same to their irl counterparts in name.

[torn sluice]

Yeah I know

[stoic tinsel]

wonder if theyll rename latenivenatrix

[bright veldt]

Doubt unfortunately

[heady thunder]

Laten is the better name anyway

[stoic tinsel]

Laten doesnt exist

[heady thunder]

It exists in our hearts

[frigid coral]

sorry for the bad picture but how accurate is this stegosaurus?

[stoic tinsel]

uhhhhh kinda hard to tell because its minecraft but it looks to be based on sophie so not very

[neat drum]

^ though with how block form do be its good nuff imo

[coral hamlet]

well. it's 4 meters tall (including back plates)

[stoic tinsel]

hopefully they give sty its tiny lacrimal horns when they remodel it

[coral hamlet]

[for reference 1 Minecraft block is 1 meter in diameter]

[woeful falcon]

Nice wrong opinion

[stoic tinsel]

yknow the oldman formation is surprisingly a lot more interesting than i thought

[woeful falcon]

Stenonychosaurus is more satisfying, and easier to say therefore better for the average PoT player too

[heady thunder]

The narrow claw has nothing on the Hiding huntress

[stoic tinsel]

well the hiding huntress isnt real never was never will be

[heady thunder]

Its just the arbitrary decision on who got to keep the name, since theyre the same animal in the end

[woeful falcon]

Its not arbitrary. Steno has seniority, therefore takes priority in naming

[stoic tinsel]

it wasnt an arbitrary decision latenivenatrix was just stenonychosaurus

[neat drum]

the cool names always lose out to the lame names

however steno > laten in this situation, until steno is replaced with something lame

[stoic tinsel]

feels bad for the daspletosaurus spp. that lived in the Judith River formation cause those fools had to worry about deinosuchus

[woeful falcon]

Somehow makes its way back into Troodon

[stoic tinsel]

no god no

[woeful falcon]

Troodon became a wastebasket, steno and laten oversplit and synonymized

Then return to Troodon

[stoic tinsel]

megalosaurus was a wastebasket taxon and it stayed

[neat drum]

ever think about the fact that the reason we have tyrannosaurus and not (the superior) manospondylus is due to funni quirks with early paleontology

[stoic tinsel]

well it was actually because the public liked the name tyrannosaurus more

[neat drum]

not exactly, that was why it never got reverted after they went back and dug up the rest of the original mano specimen

but it was because manospondylus was described from a partial vertebrae and deemed an indeterminate instead of saying tyrannosaurus was synonymous

[woeful falcon]

I thought it was on account of the naming convention where Tyrannosaurus's name remained valid despite synonymy and Mano's seniority because Mano hadn't been in use for however many years, and therefore was declared obselete per convention

Nomen oblitum, had to trudge through the mud to find it. I thought mano was declared nomen oblitum

[tough parcel]

I am pretty sure that's what it was

[stoic tinsel]

i want the amphicyonids back

i miss the amphicyonids

[stoic tinsel]

give them back extinction we need them back

[wind prairie]

were troodontids omnivorous?

[stoic tinsel]

not sure if thats a thing anymore

[vast narwhal]

Its not, I think it's Stenonychus now
Which I don't get, and why paleontologist had such a hard time with troodons

[tough parcel]

Troodontids are still a thing lmao and yes, they likely were omnivorous (but not much has been looked into)

[wind prairie]

how tf did 2 of you dodge the "ids"

[trim crag]

same

[stoic tinsel]

what? dont lump me with that i was referring to omnivorous troodontids

[simple mesa]

just 3d printed a JP raptor claw and a Velociraptor claw

[trim crag]

Can they be used for tickling?

[wind prairie]

how was I supposed to know

[white matrix]

Sir...
What family do you think Stenonychosaurus is in.?

[woeful falcon]

Dominic Toretto's

[pearl briar]

deinosuchus hatcheri up-to-date length and weight?

[bright veldt]

12 meters and 9 tons is the safe estimate, but up to 13-14 meters and 14 tons is likely for the largest individuals

[pearl briar]

thank you

[woven vortex]

Troodontidae I think

[frigid coral]

bros dodging the “id” faster than bullets

[covert lintel]

i think if every single troodontid became stenonychosaurus i'd throw up

[heady thunder]

Stenonychosauroids

[vast narwhal]

My fault I read troodontids and it registered as troodon in my mind

[flat pond]

I’m curious. How accurate to you guys think this Tyrannosaurus design is?

[covert lintel]

's pretty good

[stiff osprey]

right, forgot the censor

The orbit area is messed up as the eye is too high and lacrimal bone is too low. But everywhere else is correct

[storm heron]

I like their idea of Females being large than Males

[frail robin]

Would Azhdarchids curl their necks like storks when flying?

[stark pasture]

No they dont have the bone structure to do that iirc

[light osprey]

Tooth slippage?

[flat pond]

Hm?

[rose thorn]

No, their necks are literally incapable of such. Also storks don’t fly with curled necks, herons do

[stiff osprey]

Wow, that's only broken in 5 places

[scenic flame]

you'd have to snap the verts everywhere I put a red squiggle

[frail robin]

Alright, thanks for the info

[scenic flame]

np

[past comet]

What game is this from?

[scenic flame]

jwe2

[jagged trellis]

jwe2, and i got a feeling it wasn't the game devs doing JUST themselves( aka feel like higher ups got into the cookie jar, seeing jwe other works in the same game)

[peak jetty]

for every half-acceptable design in JWE there are a dozen of the worst monstrosities ive ever seen

[jagged trellis]

wouldn't say that, alot of the dinos they got to add themselves are pretty accurate( and good), perfect( well perfect as they could i suppose seeing duck being slightly small there) example being the feather pack that just came out, moreso some of the movie designs being.....not good

[tiny holly]

Loving the added touch of a cross over the eye

[scenic flame]

ty took me 5 hours to get that done

[vast narwhal]

Feathered pack dinos seem out of place in jw the designs are too solid

[jagged trellis]

jwe in general has great designs, the only ones ive noticed to be lower end are from the films or books

[white matrix]

Tfw people actually got pissy when it was announced

[jagged trellis]

like compare the jwe giga vs the jwd giga and just see a vast difference in quality

[white matrix]

Both look ugly, ngl. L opinion i know.

[jagged trellis]

very much so, but anyways atleast we can say the jwe giga balanced being a jw animal while still being you know...a giga

[white matrix]

[ancient crystal]

The worst of jwe's designs in my opinion are some of the pterosaurs or the original designs that were carry overs from the first game cough carch cough

[compact leaf]

the pterosaurs are pretty bad and so are the sauropods

[jagged trellis]

yeah fair bit of the pterosaurs are ugly do agree, sauropods are better off looks wise but viability wise....no

[rose thorn]

Jeholopterus is easily JWE’s best pterosaur

[ancient crystal]

Personally I can appreciate Cearadactylus for what it is. It doesn't particularly look like the actual animal but I do like the retro pterosaur look its design goes for.

A lot of the other pterosaurs just look gross.

[vast narwhal]

Jwe yutyrannus is a very solid design

[coral hamlet]

I wanna see the yutyrannus in PoT

[steady rock]

i know we might not be able to tell but
would dinosaurs see in ultra violet?

[stark pasture]

Birds do. Dinosaurs would benifite from seeing in uv. The only reason we dont is because mammals at the time of dinosaurs were almost all nocturnal and didn't really have to see color. That is also the reason everything from dogs to elephants cant see certain colors today.

[compact leaf]

most reptiles also have really good color vision too so between them and birds it stands to reason dinosaurs would

[jagged trellis]

probably seeing how mammals are more a odd one out compared to reptiles and birbs

[hybrid ferry]

Anchiornis Huxleyi

New favorite bird and it’s adorable. I don’t know much but this bird is actually better than micro-raptor in my opinion. ( Joanna Kobierska - Artist )

[ancient knoll]

Megalosaurus, alberto, alamo (or any other sauropod for that matter):
Though they do also have a lot of genuinely good designs, so I'll give them that
I don't think I'll ever forgive how dirty they did megalo though 💀

[jagged trellis]

alberto looks nice to me but i do agree on megalo though, that one is abit funky, but always gonna be difficult seeing they sometimes have folks put hands in their cookie jar, but man alot of the stuff they make is great

[hardy ravine]

check out arctic t rex

[ocean drum]

I feel like the average T.rex would look like that while ones like sue and Scotty would look more similar to prehistoric planets

[flat pond]

In terms of size?

[ocean drum]

the body structure/chonkieness

[flat pond]

Ah

[ocean drum]

if they do remodel the rex it should look exactly like the ones in the last tyrant

[woeful falcon]

This is a Nanuqsaurus, not a T. rex

[light osprey]

Well I mean this is painting / drawing so we don’t see the extent of fleshy tissues but I see more tyrannosaurids being bulkier than say something closer to shrinkwrapping

[ocean drum]

what do you mean by being bulkier

I'm just saying that if the pot rex gets a remodel that the body shape/bulk should be the same but it should have all the details like the fleshy tissue and skin flaps

[light osprey]

I thought you were referring to the winter “T rex” above mb

[ocean drum]

no thats not even t rex I'm talking about the one in the last tyrant

[light osprey]

Yes I know, that’s why I’ve got quotation marks

[ocean drum]

mb

[light osprey]

But I mean if the tyrannosaurus in PoT gets a remodel it’s need a serious bulk up. Doesn’t even look like it has gastralia

[ocean drum]

yeah like the last tyrant not prehistoric planet bulky because it was based off of sue and scotty where as pot's is supposed to be based off AMNH or Stan

[stoic tinsel]

omfg for the last time PoT REX IS WELL WITHIN THE RANGE FOR TYRANNOSAURUS MORPHOLOGY

[light osprey]

Your telling me that model has gastralia? They still have teeth hanging out of the lips

[ocean drum]

no it is not due to the gastralia not being present

[stoic tinsel]

what are talking about the gastralia dont hang super low

[light osprey]

They infact lower the torso quite a bit

[ocean drum]

balanced has lips so that argument isn't valid

[stoic tinsel]

yeah they are just below the ribs

[light osprey]

That’s a very deep torso

[ocean drum]

but the belly is too soft for the gastrilia

[stoic tinsel]

thats also an old inaccurate recon, this is better

[ocean drum]

thats sue not the avarage t rex tho witch was a mega chonker

[light osprey]

Yeah that’s not at all reflective of PoT’s tyrannosaurus

[stoic tinsel]

it is? the gastralia are correctly placed

[ocean drum]

Exactly

[light osprey]

No I’m saying the PoT design has zero gastralia apparent in its design

[stoic tinsel]

it does the only issues PoT rex has is with its head and neck i have no clue where your getting anything about its gastralia not being present

[ocean drum]

i'm sorry but the pot rex desperately needs a remodel

[light osprey]

Also a problem with all PoT designs is that the ischium is still visible through the tail. Idk why they still do that

[ocean drum]

same with the daspletosaurus

[ocean drum]

it still hasn't been proven that it was not shown so it is not a problem yet

[light osprey]

Imo in terms of relative scale (which includes combat weight) daspletosaurus is much too small as well

[ocean drum]

that's exactly what I'm saying

[nocturne cairn]

it does, the museum mount of Sue is a bad reference bc the gastralia are too low, so it makes everything look way bulkier than it would. Sue's also larger than the average rex so it isn't too good of a comparison

[ocean drum]

I already said that

[stoic tinsel]

thats what i was trying to explain the gastralia on theropods doesnt hang super low

[ocean drum]

yeah but pot's doesn't even have one tho

[light osprey]

I feel like average theropod size is irrelevant seeing has how everything is clearly scaled to either it’s absolute limit or even over exaggerated.

[stoic tinsel]

it does tho?? so i dont know where youre getting this

[ocean drum]

no the belly's tissue is too soft and not round enough

[light osprey]

He’s simply too skinny. It doesn’t appear to have any extra tissue under his torso which would’ve formed around said gastralia

[ocean drum]

based on rex anatomy the belly would be like saurians rex (not as low but still rounded)

[nocturne cairn]

it isn't too skinny, just go and look at any other time the in game rex was brought up in here

[chilly knot]

the gastralia in the Sue mount is wrong, thats why it looks so extremely deep

[light osprey]

They were very barrel chested

[stoic tinsel]

thats what im saying they dont listen

[white matrix]

This is the “average” T. rex

[ocean drum]

All the devs need to do is give the rex remodel that looks like the one in the last tyrant witch would be the avarage rex

[stoic tinsel]

yes AMNH 5027 is as average as they get

[white matrix]

Minus some pathologies, that’s the best for getting a general picture of T. rex, most T. Rexes had pretty deep torsos, it’s the way their Pubic boots are

[ocean drum]

its still skinnier than both Stan and AMNH

[stoic tinsel]

its really not

[white matrix]

It’s not tho? They have near proportionaly the same rib width if I’m not mistaken, one just happens to be larger in all aspects

[ocean drum]

the last tyrant is the most accurate t rex reconstruction PERIOD

[chilly knot]

no

[light osprey]

I guess we’re on different pages, because that looks too skinny

[stoic tinsel]

uhhh no?

[white matrix]

I would disagree with you on that, it’s based on a taphonomically destroyed skull that’s disarticulated, also some skin things are just ehh, I love it as a design but it’s not the most accurate

[ocean drum]

uhh yes its not too chonkey but still very robust

[light osprey]

It’s definitely got glaring problems yeah

[nocturne cairn]

it doesn't need to be the chonkiest possible rex to be accurate

[stoic tinsel]

well the head is wrong because it appears to have Stans dip

[ocean drum]

ye but pot's rex is still a bit to skinny

[barren compass]

why does the eye look so far up on the last tyrant rex? is that just me

[white matrix]

Pot’s Rex could use some dorsal widening and a deeper public boot, I just hate it aesthetically

[chilly knot]

it is absolutely not too skinny what yall on

[ocean drum]

because of the camera angle

[light osprey]

Idk it’s seems to be missing gastralia. The torso really narrows down at that bottom area of the torso which is not reflective of any size range of tyrannosaur gastralia.

[stoic tinsel]

accuracy wise its actually good its just not super aesthetically pleasing, and as you can see its gastralia are perfectly fine

[ocean drum]

Can we all just agree that pot's rex still needs a remodel plus something I forgot to mention is the carotin around the eyes

[chilly knot]

yes

[bright veldt]

I've already stated the other day how there would be no indication of gastralia externally. idk wtf you're on about here

[stoic tinsel]

yeah its crests were downright ignored keratin wise to the point where they pretty much dont exist

[ocean drum]

well if there's a second pair of ''ribs'' why would the tissue around it be that soft especially with competition with trike

[stoic tinsel]

thats my biggest issue with rex along with the textures, other than that great rex

[light osprey]

Wdym, the gastralia would literally give the animal a bigger chest? Were their no other soft tissues other than a thin layer of skin present on the underside of the torso?

[bright veldt]

Why on Earth would that be visible externally? Last I checked our chest isn't rugged because of the ribs underneath.

[stoic tinsel]

the tissue around the gastralia is the same as the rest of the torso there wouldnt be extra tissue around the gastralia

[ocean drum]

yeah but we only have one pair thats the difference also thats not what i meant the belly structure would be similar to saurians not how low it hangs but still

[light osprey]

You think you’d have the same muscle size if you didn’t have a ribcage?

[stoic tinsel]

why would there be extra tissue there tho that makes no sense

[bright veldt]

I'm just wondering where this sentiment of gastralia being obviously visible comes from. This makes no sense.

[chilly knot]

I dont see any gastralia altho they have one🫣

[ocean drum]

thats exactly what i'm trying to say see how the belly is

[light osprey]

You wouldn’t literally see it. It does have an effect on morphology

[stoic tinsel]

saurian rex doesnt have visible gastralia and what do you know there isnt extra tissue there either

[bright veldt]

Except that it isn't as obvious as whatever the hell you're trying to say?

[white matrix]

They are definitely not visible, they are for support more then protection

[covert lintel]

personally i'd be worried if the belly wasn't soft, you Should Not be able to clearly see the bones through the flesh in the majority of animals

[ocean drum]

i'm trying to say how the belly wraps around the gastralia is how it would most likely be

[light osprey]

All I’m saying is that the PoT Rex doesn’t have gastralia!!

[white matrix]

💀

[stoic tinsel]

IT DOES

[bright veldt]

Where is the proof? PoT rex's stomach isn't exceptional compared to any other rex model out there rn. Y'all are playing yourselves.

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/american-psycho-phone-gif-23993626

[stoic tinsel]

what is this then, what is that cause all im seeing is gastralia where they be

[light osprey]

No it doesn’t!! There’s no morphological changes on the torso which account for an extra set of ossified muscle. That strange dipping in the torso is clearly not wide enough to be representative of a large tyrannosaur which is infact what the PoT Rex scales as.

[stoic tinsel]

BECAUSE THERE ARENT ANY

[barren compass]

idk why but the hump at the back of the head bothers me for some reason

[rose thorn]

Tbf, keratin is not the same/kind to all creatures

[bright veldt]

Look at this daspleto and tell me it's any different from rex in the torso

[ocean drum]

all they need to do for pots rex is make the stomach tissue like saurians or prehsitoric planets (the shape not how low it hangs) aswell as fix the cariton

[covert lintel]

...extra set of... ossified muscle?

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/what-huh-confused-walt-breaking-bad-gif-15121563

[light osprey]

How do think gastralia developed?

[lunar copper]

it's smaller 🙄

[frozen basin]

Tf did I come back to?

[bright veldt]

People complaining about a problem that doesn't exist.

[ancient crystal]

I don't know and at this point I'm too afraid to ask

[ocean drum]

yeah the problem does exist

[stoic tinsel]

yeah in your head

[covert lintel]

i just think "ossified muscle" is an unnecessarily specific way to say "bones"
also can you give some examples of these morphological differences that PoT's tyrannosaurus is lacking?

[lunar copper]

whats a gastralia btw? sounds like a disease

[light osprey]

Extra tissue forming around the second set of ribs

[ocean drum]

the second pair of ribs found in theropods

[ancient crystal]

Gastrilitus

[rose thorn]

The set of bones beneath the rib cage

[chilly knot]

belly ribs basically

[frozen basin]

Was gonna say that

[stoic tinsel]

ossified means bone, ossified tissue is bone not muscle

[covert lintel]

...the tissue is there. like, visibly, in the picture provided, PoT's rex has more flesh around the gastralia than the skeletal does.

[bright veldt]

The issue is that they're saying PoT rex doesn't have gastralia when PoT's rex model isn't any different in the stomach/torso than literally any other PoT theropod lmao. They're seeing something that isn't actually there.

[barren compass]

What actaully is wrong with the pot rex?

[lunar copper]

oh, well that makes a lot more sense lmao, ty

[ancient crystal]

Its keratin and some other facial features from what I understand

[ocean drum]

because the tissue around it is way to soft

[light osprey]

Not it doesn’t though, it’s literally the same depth

[bright veldt]

Look at this daspleto and tell me it's stomach is any different from rex's. You're seeing things. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/542776901442338816/1093697408770252810/1000.png

[rose thorn]

Mostly just small facial features like eye size, the hornlets size and lacrimal location. General textures could also be better
It’s breastbone also seems to be slightly more shallow than the skeletal

[covert lintel]

is it, though?

[little mauve]

Admit I'm confused by this argument too, maybe the people complaining should post a model they do think properly shows the gastralia? Frankly I like the PoT rex a lot

[ocean drum]

its quite a bit different your not seeing things

[light osprey]

In fact not even the scapula of the animal is correctly positioned on the PoT rex

[chilly knot]

PP rex has no gastralia ong!! (belly has soft tissue)

[bright veldt]

I double checked rex just now and it is literally identical wtf are yall on about?

[rose thorn]

Hank has a dad bod. Of course you wouldn’t see his ribs

[covert lintel]

that's the only thing i've agreed with you on so far. from the side, the shoulder does look kinda weird compared to a lot of the skeletals i've been looking at.

[ocean drum]

what i'm trying to say is pot's rexes belly has overhang similar to how a lizards non-detached shedded skin looks

[stoic tinsel]

PP rex fyi

[bright veldt]

A bump at the bottom is normal. That's just the hipbone lol. Depending on how thick the reconstruction is it's less visible on some tyrannosaurs compared to others.

[light osprey]

Here’s the full picture. The gastralia is pretty obviously distinguished by the extent of tissue apparent on the bottom of the torso. Hence why it looks “fatter” than PoT’s Rex

[covert lintel]

alright so. we've got one guy saying PoT rex has no gastralia because there's not enough soft tissue, and... another guy saying PoT rex has no gastralia because there's too much soft tissue? inchresting

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/drake-computer-notebook-explaning-gif-21152267

[stoic tinsel]

wait who says theres too much?

[ocean drum]

pot's rex is based on sue and scotty so the chonkienss is irrelevant to

[light osprey]

Who said too little soft tissue? Even though I’m arguing against you that’s like the worst take if ever heard, somebody get him plz💀

[nocturne cairn]

PoT's rex isn't explicitly stated to be any specimen, but if any it would be more likely Stan or an average sized rex

[chilly knot]

PoT rex looks more like the holotype (almost aligns perfectly)

[bright veldt]

That's just the hipbone? That's normal and has nothing to do with gastralia lol. How visible/absent it seems is more based on how the fat/soft-tissue is put on the animal than any prescence/absense of gastralia.

[rose thorn]

Nah, Hank is just fat

[covert lintel]

my brother in christ your argument is literally all about The Tissue

[stoic tinsel]

uhhhh its obviously not cause thats a skeletal of AMNH 5027 an average af rex

[ocean drum]

your forgetting about ANMH

[nocturne cairn]

I did, but AMNH is an average sized rex, unlike Sue

[chilly knot]

Nah I used the holotype

[flat pond]

Dear god what have I started?

[light osprey]

Oops I meant “too much” goofy 💀

[rose thorn]

I do love me some T.rex discourse, even more than Spino arguments

[ocean drum]

yeah if you've seen sue's skeleton or even scottys the belly hangs quite a bit lower

[little mauve]

Still so confused

[covert lintel]

for those curious, ^ this is what i'm understanding as "too much soft tissue"

[stoic tinsel]

thought that was franoys AMNH 5027??

[bright veldt]

You do realize that Sue's skeletal mount hangs the gastralia far too low right?

[chilly knot]

no holotype, AMNH got this goofy broken back

[ocean drum]

I know but ones with the gastralia in the right place the belly still hangs lower right?

[stoic tinsel]

oh yeah thats right AMNH 5027 got that goofy ahh dip in its back

[covert lintel]

...did you not see the messages comparing the model with a skeletal reconstruction?

[ocean drum]

yeah but with the skeletal the belly is firm not tissue I could just pull on like pot's

[bright veldt]

I give up with y'alls delusions we're gunna go in circles.

[covert lintel]

and what exactly about PoT's model gives the impression that the soft tissue isn't firm?

[barren compass]

bro went into the game and felt it

[stoic tinsel]

its a 3D model you cant touch it

[rose thorn]

Yea you can, just print it

[ocean drum]

I could literally just grab and pull on the belly where as most reconstructions you can't really do that

[light osprey]

It’s simply too skinny. Animals have fatty tissues, and it’s not prevalent enough on PoTs Rex. Although you can make the argument that the gastralia might be included in the model? The torso seems to taper down a bit where the skeletal shows the presence of gastralia, which does not really correlate to the T. rex’s gastralia structure.

[bright veldt]

my guy that has more to do with how much fat there is rather than whether gastralia is missing or not im gunna scream

[covert lintel]

that's incredibly vague and doesn't help me understand your view at all, thanks

[stoic tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/what-huh-confused-walt-breaking-bad-gif-15121563

[chilly knot]

"too skinny"

[ocean drum]

do you see how round saurians or pp rexes belly is compared to pot's does that damn clarify

[light osprey]

Yea actually what are you talking about?

[barren compass]

i like myself a fat rex though 🥺

[little mauve]

Protip: don't grab a T. rex's belly

[stoic tinsel]

PP's rex is way too robust to use as an example and Saurain's is the same as PoT's

[ocean drum]

I'm talking about the shape of the belly ya know the classic barrel shape

[light osprey]

That dip in the torso is far too narrow to be gastralia the skeletal lines it’s gastralia with said correlated dip in the PT model

[covert lintel]

if anything PP's rex is a bit on the flabby side (not inherently bad, dinosaurs probably got fat sometimes, but it doesn't make it a great point of comparison)

[stoic tinsel]

again thats because its super robust not reflective of an average tyrannosaurus

[ocean drum]

ya know how it shows the tissue with the skeletals how the belly is round that's what i mean

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-cry-rage-gif-21631184

[light osprey]

And even if we try to say that PoT’s Rex is reflective of an average T. Rex anatomy, the gastralia of all T.rex were much more “barrel shaped” (a bit of a tripe term now I guess) than other tyrannosaurids.

[stoic tinsel]

no its not tyrannosaurs arent barrel bodied

[ocean drum]

at this point this is gonna lead to vc XD

[ancient crystal]

I can hear it now

[stoic tinsel]

heres another amazing rex

[light osprey]

Wdym, it’s the defining feature of their torso. It’s a giant circle

[ocean drum]

what I'm trying to explain is the belly should be shaped like how the skeletals depict the belly structure of a rex

[covert lintel]

and it is

[barren compass]

something about the head is just so much better

[ancient crystal]

Its the little details like the hornlets and actually defined scales I think.

[stoic tinsel]

yeah maybe if you are sue or scotty

[light osprey]

Agreed, I think this whole chat can agree PoT’s Rex head is underwhelming

[rose thorn]

Compare digital duck’s

[ocean drum]

is that beasts of Bermuda's he tissue becomes to soft near the end of the belly also is that rex above form beasts of bermuda

[covert lintel]

what could this mean?

[stoic tinsel]

thats Digital Duck's rex

[ocean drum]

so y'all know how the pot rexes belly has two sections the second one's tissue is too soft and looks non-muscular

[light osprey]

I have a full forward facing image of tyrannosaurs in game showing that the correlated lower half of the torso is too narrow to be reflective of the skeletal’s gastralia

[ocean drum]

at this point imma have to use vc to explain

[covert lintel]

this'd be way easier if you could just provide a visual reference. like. i dunno, take a screenshot and highlight the segments in mspaint or something. i don't Know what the Sections are or which one is the Second Section

[ancient crystal]

No, no. Just... two sections? I'm not one to play rex often so maybe that's why but I've never noticed something like that.

[ocean drum]

This is two damn hard to explain ima try to get some visuals

[light osprey]

I’ve got a forward screenshot. Examine it an tell me if you think that lower area is representative of gastralia

[jagged trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-jackson-haha-lol-excited-entertaining-gif-4486170

[stoic tinsel]

last i checked these are fine

[light osprey]

You can see the pubic dip in the torso. The gastralia should extend to that point should they not?!?! If I’m wrong I’d like someone to clarify the proper reconstruction of their anatomy

[stoic tinsel]

now heres Sergi's rex model edits in which he uses Scotty as a reference, now as you can see Scotty is stupid robust and as such is barrel bodied but this is not reflective of the average tyrannosaurus therefore can be ignored

[light osprey]

Am I the only one seeing this? The gastralia are clearly as low as the pubic bone, but the in game model narrows too much, the fleshy area around this section of the torso. How much narrower can the gastralia be on average tyrannosaurus specimens?

[flat pond]

I regret asking my question now.

[ancient crystal]

Did you start this?

[stoic tinsel]

it only appears narrow because of the ischium

[flat pond]

All I asked was a simple question and I’ve caused war…

[ocean drum]

Idk if the text is too small see how the second section is very soft and kinda hangs there like theres no mussle

[light osprey]

That’s not the ischium, the ischium is the pelvic bone extending toward the caudal vertebrae

[stoic tinsel]

i meant the pubis but my point still standss

[ocean drum]

do you guys understand now?

[covert lintel]

yeah i think we're just interpreting the model in fundamentally different ways

[flat pond]

All the PoT rex needs is it’s head and textures fixed. Everything else seems fine.

[light osprey]

Well not really, because the gastralia are parallel to be pubic bone. If they weren’t then I guess the model would be more accurate. But that would be ignoring the osteology of tyrannosaurus

[stoic tinsel]

the gastralia start higher up towards the ribs than the pubis does

[ocean drum]

tbh I was always told I'm very bad at explaining things prolly because I'm neurodivergent

but do ya'll agree with me about the second section being non-muscular

[stoic tinsel]

doesnt need to be

[light osprey]

Yeah except even at the base of the pubis (in game) the lower, narrower half of the torso doesn’t widen like it should.

[ocean drum]

So i'm still right tho cause that's what i'm trying to say but in a different way

[stoic tinsel]

the narrower half is fine thats just how it is it only appears narrower because of how tyrannosaurus' hip is built

[ocean drum]

tbh its built like an hourglass lol (looking from front to back third person view)

[light osprey]

No it’s shouldn’t remain narrow, because the tyrannosaurus’ gastralia are just as low as the base of the pubic bone. If there’s gastralia as low as the pubis, then the torso should widen at the bottom (relative to the hip area) as it extends past the hip, which it does not in game.

[covert lintel]

ive spent like a whole hour experiencing nothing but confusion, i'm gonna call it quits

[stoic tinsel]

yeah i think im done explaining this theyve basically ignored tyrannosaur anatomy completely

[ocean drum]

same with you we all have but the way rexes underbelly or what i call section 2 is shaped wrong

[covert lintel]

tbh my problem is just that 3-4 of us seem to be communicating on entirely different wavelengths and it feels like every time i get clarification i'm suddenly wondering what the hell we're talking about again like i don't know if anatomy's being disregarded or not because every second message i lose track of which body part we're talking about and from which angle

[ocean drum]

But lets just end this the rex model isn't even in our control

[stoic tinsel]

they just dont know what they are talking about so they explain it poorly, again theyve basically ignored tyrannosaur anatomy and havent taken a look at an ACTUAL skeletal

[ocean drum]

In the case of me I'm just horrible at explaining things but okay the reason why I am arguing is because i know for a fact the underbelly is shaped wrong

[light osprey]

I’m using skeletals 😭. Where do think I’m getting my “gastralia extend to the pubic bone”. I’m not just making up stuff on the spot

[stoic tinsel]

but youve ignored the fact that they are higher than the pubis

[light osprey]

So this skeletal is completely wrong? Because those gastralia are definitely at the pubic bone

[ocean drum]

But you've ignored that the rexes belly stays muscular the entire way not just the upper belly or ''section 1''

[stoic tinsel]

theres no extra muscle on tyrannosaurus' stomach where are you getting this

[ocean drum]

do you see that on the skeletal that the belly dosent narrow down thats what i mean/stays the same shape th whole way unlike pot's rex

[small dagger]

Love to see you guys complaining about rex model, thats the spirit!

[covert lintel]

there is no muscle here

[stoic tinsel]

it does narrow you can see it there

[ocean drum]

the shape is determined by mussle

[light osprey]

And AMNH 5027 clearly show that the gastralia are at least extending into the lower portion of the torso, which is compelety absent from PoT’s model. It’s literally just the pubic bone in game, there’s no gastralia even present slightly above the base of the pubic bone. There’s a solid few inches where the widening of the torso should begin, but instead the width of the lower portion is roughly the same until the upper ribs are present

[small dagger]

Werent they a bit deeper?

[ocean drum]

no it doesn't otherwise it would look skinnier the further down like seen with pot's

[stoic tinsel]

it do tho

[light osprey]

Ooh we were so close, Is there an image showing the bottom of this specimen’s torso from an underneath perspective?

[ocean drum]

That is exactly what I'm trying to explain to REE

[covert lintel]

im gonna go to bed but i will leave this here (scott hartman SUE skeletal that i've been trying to find an excuse to post and i guess it's relevant to the whole deal with pubises and gastralia and whatnot)

[stiff osprey]

Me when the gastralia's position relative to the pubic bone in life is unknown and varies depending whether the animal is fed or hungry, breathing in or out (debating whether they reach the bottom of the pubis or not is worthless)

[wooden kraken]

Guys I am new at the game

[stoic tinsel]

oh yeah i forgot that gastralia position isnt constant

[ocean drum]

lets just end this debate everything's accurate but the underbelly there done well almost everything but still

[small geyser]

Welcome but please go to #path-of-titans to discuss the game itself.

[wooden kraken]

How to unlock dinosaurs I am new at this game please someone tell me how

[stoic tinsel]

heres saurians rex frontal view where yknow it narrows

[ocean drum]

okay but it still stays chonkey and does not turn thin as a stick like pot's

[stoic tinsel]

yeah cause its given different proportions because its more robust

[ocean drum]

not because of that saurians belly still stays a consistent width pot's doesn't that's what I'm trying to say

[stoic tinsel]

well youre wrong, because like i said PoT's rex is more in line with the average rex which would narrow out like that its fine

[ocean drum]

well your wrong because no other animal does the belly have that big of a width change

[white matrix]

[stoic tinsel]

welp ive tried just go on ignoring rex anatomy

[ocean drum]

REE can you just agree that pot's underbelly is inaccurate also your ignoring the way the underbelly narrows

[ripe ruin]

So what's the pointless argument tonight?

[stoic tinsel]

dude 5 people have told its fine and weve given so many reasons why but you ignore them its fine

[little mauve]

Noooo it's finally almost over

[white matrix]

It's another one of those "this model is accurate to this model"

[ocean drum]

actually more people took my side but okay like bro realize your mistakes before you do others thats narcissistic my mistake is being bad at explaining' yours is not understanding that rexes underbelly does not change in shape end of discussion

[ripe ruin]

Helicoprion feeding moment

(Oh so it's a troll)

[white matrix]

What a funny lil guy

[small dagger]

Saurian rex is thicker because it has more meat, its speculative
PoT rex is still accurate because we dont know for sure how much muscle they had on their tums, Now lets stop this argument

[stoic tinsel]

dont bother weve told them that about 3 times already

[ocean drum]

but the underbelly shape change is wrong other than that the rex is good ( the shape of the underbelly should stay somewhat consistent)

[white matrix]

[small dagger]

Both rexes are good. end of story

[ocean drum]

sure why not

[little mauve]

Anyway. Just finished this and it was one of the best books on dinosaurs I've ever read, highly recommend it

[ripe ruin]

Here
Uh discuss this ugly freak
Lemme just find it's name

[stoic tinsel]

im pretty sure this is tarbosaurus because the anatomy and climate is right but the rest of the environment is uhhh weird ig

[white matrix]

How much is a copy?

[light osprey]

The belly shape is clearly more cylindrical. I even clarified later that the pelvic area will clearly be narrower than the torso.

[ocean drum]

Bro are we ending this or what the underbelly shape change is wrong that’s it end of story

[stoic tinsel]

its just speculation we dont know how much tissue is there in the first place just stop bringing it up fckin hell man

[little mauve]

It's textbook quality so the hardcover is relatively cheap at $40, the ebook is 30

[ocean drum]

No more of this nonsense

[light osprey]

Mb mb, I’ll stop 🙌. No need to use vulgar language

[storm heron]

It is Tarbosaurus, and the environment is also fine because it is known to have snowed in the Nemegt formation (The formation Tarbosaurus was found in).

[ripe ruin]

Ok time for better arguments
Like spinosaurus slander

[stiff osprey]

Based on the yearly average temperature being like 10-12 degrees, Nemegt would have got snow in the winter, or so i've heard

oh i've been ninjad

[white matrix]

Not bad I'll put it on a list. If you got any other recommendations lemme know. I'm always wanting to expand my library. (The slow mode is absolutely cancerous tf)

[stoic tinsel]

snow is fine but im wondering about the trees and whatnot because iirc i dont think there were trees like that present was what i was getting at

[ripe ruin]

Oh yeah baby

[little mauve]

The Life of the Past series from Indiana University Press are all excellent imo

[light osprey]

No. Plz have mercy

[storm heron]

Well, I am not too knowledgeable about the types of trees (or flora in general) present in the environment unfortunately. Also, sorry Random ha.

[ocean brook]

Well that would be interesting to see

[ripe ruin]

Where's falcon? He just looovvess spinofaarus

(Conifers existed in Europe and likely asia for a long time. So i don't think it's unreasonable for them to be present in the nemegt)

[little mauve]

Probably not, there were lots of conifers but these look like too boreal imo. May just be an artistic choice to fit the snow

[stoic tinsel]

yeah when i first saw the paleoart i immediately thought oh wow tarbosaurus in the snow dont see it in the snow often usually just see it in the desert, then i went wtf when i saw the weird boreal conifers

[ripe ruin]

Yea
They appeared in Europe and north America about 310 million years
And then spread world wide

[stoic tinsel]

whats weirder is that the first conifer in the foreground is one that is present in the nemegt formation iirc but all the other look boreal

[wind prairie]

wasn't hyperodapedon found to have a keratinous beak instead of buck teeth

[little mauve]

Yeah the one up front looks good, the ones in the back are inaccurate

[light osprey]

Slightly off topic, where else was Tarbosaurus found?

[stoic tinsel]

believe its also been found in inner mongolia in China

[light osprey]

Which locale was more reflective of the arid desert it’s often depicted in? Or was that a paleo art misconception based on the modern appearance of the Nemegt formation?

[little mauve]

It was sort of a wastebasket for large Asian Tyrannosaurid material for a while, feel like I've read about fragmentary stuff in China & Russia both referred to as Tarbosaurus

[stoic tinsel]

nemegt formation is a seasonal desert so it changes but parts of it are a desert some parts are more lush and at sometimes it snows

[little mauve]

It was a continental basin, so like a huge depression surrounded by desert. Water could gather seasonally & support marshland & forests. Like really really big oases

Dry season v wet season in a similar environment today, the Okavango Delta

[stoic tinsel]

but where da snow, gimme da snow

[light osprey]

Yeah I just had no idea that it was actually a continental basin. Quite an interesting environment to be full of such large fauna

[little mauve]

Snow wasn't common, it got pretty cold but winters were dry

[stoic tinsel]

yeah i know was just wondering if there were any environments today that were like that that got snow

[tough parcel]

Yixian and Nemegt saw snow (Nemegt more rare, but still possible)

[stoic tinsel]

i meant today tho like an environment around today that was like the nemegt formation that also gets nice occasionally

[storm heron]

I am told that the Prince Creek formation (Nanuqsaurus' stronghold) was primarily wet in the winter, though with the depiction of a snowy environments in Prehistoric Kingdom (and Walking with Dinosaurs), I wonder if it was possible it snowed there.

[tough parcel]

There was a paper that compared a city in China to the Nemegt, but I forget which one

[little mauve]

So they actually have highly accurate paleoclimate models for the Nemegt based on isotopic data & the closest modern match was Shijiazhuang, northern China.
MAT 10° higher than modern Mongolia

775–835 mm/yr. of precipitation but nearly all of it coming with the monsoon

[stoic tinsel]

why do mammoths have fur while living in really cold climates but we dont depict edmontosaurus with a large coating of feathers despite being a similar size and also living in a cold environment that being the prince creek formation

[tough parcel]

Because mammoths have evidence of fur while Edmontosaurus, an animal with extensive skin impressions, does not

[little mauve]

Wet always means more snow 👍 dry places get way less snow than wet ones

[stoic tinsel]

then its metabolism kept it warm? deinocheirus lived in a cold climate and it couldve been gigantothermic which would mean it wouldnt have a need for such a huge covering of feathers

[light osprey]

Maybe they possessed a lot more fat.

[tough parcel]

AFAIK the climate model PP used, Naish said that snow would’ve been very, very rare (heavy snowfalls that we all think of). Usually it’d just be nippy and swampy

[stoic tinsel]

so snow would correlate for the need of covering? and since it was rarer it wouldnt need the covering?

[tough parcel]

Tbh, keep in mind, gators can survive freezing temperatures at their size without fluff. Admittedly, not for long though

[stoic tinsel]

they also arent 8 tonnes

[stoic tinsel]

so would deinocheirus with this amount of covering be fine in the cold and or snow?

[cinder jewel]

Depends how much of that is fat. Probably for a short while yeah

[light osprey]

Well if the prince creek formation was indeed a very “wet” place and it snow fall was very rare, then that’s would determine that temperatures necessitating extra heat retaining characteristics wouldn’t happen often so said characteristics wouldn’t be necessary because of the lack of severe temperature occurrences? Gosh that’s a mouthful could’ve written that better 🤦

[stoic tinsel]

i mean they arent living in constant perpetual cold and snow like mammoths so my assumption would be yes and given their size theyd almost be gigantothermic so youd think theyd be kinda hot all the time with a large covering of feathers, its the same reason stuff like rex dont have a large covering of feathers

[woeful falcon]

I felt like that was common sense at this point, where's the opposing discussion I'm confused

[stoic tinsel]

there isnt one was just wondering

[woeful falcon]

Answering one's own query I see I see

[stiff osprey]

Multi ton animals are generally fine in cold weather regardless of their skin covering, the question is how would their babies deal with the cold if they're featherless

[little mauve]

They were also full endotherms, gigantothermy is a different thing

[compact leaf]

mammoths also weren't living in constant cold through most of their range (minute and a half slow mode )

[stoic tinsel]

what about mammoths? also id just assume babies would have a large coat and then lose them

[light osprey]

Didn’t some live in generally colder climates?

[stiff osprey]

Wooly mammoths were living in constant cold (not constantly below zero, but as a human going outside, you'd be cold). The ones further south were mostly naked

[stoic tinsel]

ones on the mammoth steppe definitely are

[compact leaf]

they still would have had warm summers in a lot of places, do we have direct evidence of them being less hairy in the southern part of their range? I don't pay a ton of attention to the cenozoic I'm mostly a sauropod specialist

[stiff osprey]

For woolies no, I meant other species of mammoth that weren't living in as harsh conditions were less hairy

(Although southern woolies being less, well, wooly is a possibility)

[stoic tinsel]

yes there are species of mammuthus in Africa that definitely are not wooly

[compact leaf]

oh I see what you mean now, I was talking about woollies specifically

[little mauve]

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(21)00739-9 very good paper about breeding behavior of Arctic dinosaurs

[inland thunder]

can you guess what cerato i am thinking of atm?

[iron jewel]

yup

[storm heron]

That is a good question, I have to remember that.

[lucid gyro]

Dinosaur

[storm heron]

Hold up, how do Baby alligators survive in the winter

[stiff osprey]

Hibernation maybe?

or whatever the appropriate version of hibernate is for gators

[lucid gyro]

im p sure they do a thing called brumation? it’s like hibernation but for reptiles. although idk how babies would go about it specifically

[storm heron]

Brumation, hmm, but yea how would that help Babies? Wouldn't them undergoing hibernation or brumation during cold snowy seasons make them extremely vulnerable?

[stiff osprey]

If it works for the adults it works for the babies, I suppose

But I've never seen footage or heard of baby alligators brumating

Gators also don't live in places where it regularly goes below zero (those adults you find with their noses sticking out of the ice are exceptions and having a bad time). So it's possible that babies in those conditions just freeze to death 💀

[ripe ruin]

rip bozos

[neat drum]

During cold snaps(just at freezing temps) here babies usually bury themselves under leaf litter and huddle next to the parents

As for the historical range, thats a good question

(Alligators used to live further north than they do now but many of those pops were sparse to begin with and wiped out by humans)

[lucid gyro]

skill issue

[neat drum]

Ik lizards who live in the colder regions often have less babies, and bigger babies, even in species that have wide ranges, northern locales have smaller clutches and bigger babies

Its not unreasonable to assume dinosaurs did similar

[stiff osprey]

oh yeah we probably should be looking at lizards

[pastel tartan]

Is sachisaurus a mosasaur or pliosaur

[neat drum]

Id say snakes as well but snakes up north are gregarious and social to begin with, and gather in larger numbers(even multiple species congregating together) to avoid freezing

[stiff osprey]

I can't see a baby dinosaur burying itself or hibernating though (minus the like 5 species that are burrowers)

[woeful falcon]

Sachicasaurus is a pliosaur

How frequent would cretaceous cold snaps have been would you say

[neat drum]

I can see nesting behaviors coming in handy, lay on your baby to keep it sheltered from the elements

[neat drum]

Ive heard of prince creek being compared to east tennessee, where winters are fairly mild, mostly freezes and only a bit of snow

[stiff osprey]

true

but assuming the giant species were featherless, there would've been a phase where they're on their own for the winter and not yet big animals (tyrannosaurs in their second year are like coyote to wolf sized)

[woeful falcon]

I ask because if it was fairly infrequent, could it be as simple as some years had a higher mortality rate than others

[stiff osprey]

hadrosaurs, i can see avoiding the cold by being social and just outgrowing it - a two year old Maiasaura is like bigger than a cow

[vast narwhal]

Isn't there still the possibility that some dinosaurs may have been warm blooded, that could also help with cold temperatures

[stiff osprey]

they were definitely warm blooded (in the sense that they produced their own body heat, i don't vibe with the definition of warm blooded as "above a certain metabolic rate")

but a warm blooded animal doesn't survive long in the cold without insulation unless it's gigantic

[stiff osprey]

I guess the simplest answer is that if they didn't have feathers, they would be fat as babies
blubber/thick skin is also a good insulator

[woeful falcon]

baby fat, but of course

[iron jewel]

deinocherois gettin remodel i heard

[neat drum]

alternatively, nonavian dinosaurs could've done what avian dinosaurs do to keep warm

they can constrict the blood vessels in their extremities and to an extent their skin, keeping their skin and limbs cold, but their inner body temperature up

https://www.scienceabc.com/wp-content/uploads/ext-www.scienceabc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Bird-leg-diagram.jpg-.jpg

[stiff osprey]

my brain is a little fried so this image reads like that one garfield meme to me

why do they call it artery when you cold out blood heat the foot

[neat drum]

its very confusing but somehow the only graph that makes somewhat sense

but yeah, birds do a mix of that and gular fluttering/shivering to maintain body temperature in the cold, the feathers poofed out to help retain said body heat, they are incredibly efficient at staying warm, and even tropical bird species are capable of withstanding unusually low temps as a result, wouldn't surprise me if the nonavians were equally as well equiped to deal with whatever temps are thrown their way

oh and birds with beeg crops will blow their crops up to create a big air pocket that acts sorta like a blanket, catching the body heat and sending it right back

[storm heron]

Beeg crops?

[neat drum]

big crops

stuff like columbids

[storm heron]

I had a feeling you meant big, but what are "crops"?

[neat drum]

oh...crops are a pouch in the throat of...most birds, they use it to store food and water either to slowly funnel into their digestive tract or to feed their offspring

[storm heron]

Oh that is what crops are. Was just trying to understand your last comment (The one about birds with big crops).

[neat drum]

yeah birds like pigeons, doves, etc. will puff up their crops to create an insulating air pocket along their rather thin necks

[storm heron]

Ah, pretty cool adaption.

[neat drum]

one of the many ways birds just look at temperatures and go "lol"

that said most nonavians likely didn't have crops and prob couldn't do the same thing, though gular fluttering and shivering is not off the table since those are p universal across vertebrates

[wind prairie]

does anybody have the specific article or paper or something that announced dakotaraptor as invalid?

[bright veldt]

There's nothing written about it but given it was described and published by an unreliable af paleontologist it's safe to consider it so imo until some unrelated party can actually do a study with the remains

[woeful falcon]

I also recall something about problematic material and refusal of said problematic material to be examined as well, unless I'm thinking of another dinosaur

or maybe I'm thinking of what you just said lol

[storm heron]

Well, to my knowledge, Palmer hasn't lets the Dakotaraptor specimen be examined by others - something about him keeping it locked behind doors.

[wind prairie]

why is robert depalma unreliable?

[bright veldt]

He has accusations of fabricating his studies, made even worse by him utterly refusing to let anybody else see his work.

[wind prairie]

is reconstructing brontosaurus/apatosaurus with those neck spike things still accurate?

[pearl briar]

alioramus altai vs alioramus remotus who is bigger and what are they're differences?

[woeful falcon]

I think they're roughly the same size. A. remotus's nasal ridge has rather pronounced spikes to it while A. altai's doesn't. Both are thought to be juvenile though so they coulda had a lot more growing.

[bright veldt]

One is older than the other though.

[storm heron]

Two possible species of Alioramines co-existing with Tarbosaurus. Now this is what I am curious about.

[stoic tinsel]

iirc there is a possibility they are the same species of alioramus dont quote me on that tho

[storm heron]

I can understand that.

[iron jewel]

this how saber looked?

[heady thunder]

Hope not.

[twin tapir]

If your referring to the neck bosses on the bottom of their necks, we don't have direct evidence of them but its reasonable speculation

[iron jewel]

looks good to me tbh its more realistic either smildok had essevive droll or was semi aquatic there teeth would crack wit impac to anything

[heady thunder]

The first two look decent, the third tho looks insane

[bright veldt]

There's other ways for an animal to maintain teeth aside from aquatic. It's very unlikely smilodon (and most other excessive sabertooths) had lips covering them. There were other sabertooths that probably did though, like deinofelis, homotherium, among others.

[pearl briar]

the first queen of slay with her slay claw can reach over a half metre long 💅✨
how accurate her length, height and weight?

[ocean drum]

I don’t want to start anything but about the ridiculous argument last night can we all agree that the Rex model is a female due to being more lightly built and the little amount of carotene surrounding it’s eyes it makes sense if you really think about it

[heady thunder]

Any proof to suggest that female rexes were more lightly built and had smaller keratin on their head?

[ocean drum]

2 reasons 1 based on current knowledge palaeontologists speculate that they actually were and 2 in most birds and crocs the males are larger and more robust than the females and yes I actually have researched this in fact it has been stated that the males would be bigger and stronger while females would be more lightly built but more aggressive crocks are a perfect example of this

[heady thunder]

Thats neat, still, I'd call the current Rex model conservative then straight up male or female.

[ocean drum]

I’m gonna go with female because of the knowledge we have

[heady thunder]

Id say it depends on a lot of factors, crocs dont differ as much appearance wise minus the size, especially compared to birds and even some birds arent largely different between sexes. So imo for the game, both male and female Rexes having the same model with different colour changes is a safe choice.

[slim ridge]

i feel like for now it's something we simply don't know, birds also have cases in which females are larger.

[heady thunder]

Yeah, for that wed need two specimens which are undoubtedly female and male so we could compare.

[ancient crystal]

Aren't there cases in birds where there is no outward physical difference between sexes? I seem to remember canada geese not having any dimorphism what so ever

[heady thunder]

Yes

[slim ridge]

Herons iirc have pretty much no distinction between the sexes we can see

[warm temple]

Is magnapaulia still considered as the tallest hadrosaur ?

[sudden wind]

No, we have evidences that some Machairodontinaes like Smilodon didn't cover their fangs. Anyway, mammal saber tooth don't need to be covered because they are quite thick in enamel.

[sudden wind]

No actual evidences are known for any non avian dinosaur sexual dimorphism minus the hip bones.

[scenic flame]

There is no speculation from paleontologists that females were more lightly built as there is no evidence for or against it, it's a complete mystery, what would make more sense is to say pot rex is individual variation as using the 2 most robust rexes as the norm for the genus makes little to no sense when we have several othr adult specimens

[sudden wind]

There are some hundreds of examples of sexual dimorphism in birds, but also thousands of examples of birds without sexual dimorphism.

[heady thunder]

As i expected tbh

[cinder jewel]

As far as I know, the only way to currently sex a dinosaur is to test for the presence of medullary bone, and that is not a conclusive test since other things also react to the test for it.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33398875/

[ocean drum]

I never said largely different just enough of a difference to tell the sexes

[ocean drum]

So I was right about the T.Rex dimorphism I couldn’t find any sources to link in the disco so thanks

[nocturne cairn]

There's only one rex that has a confirmed medullary bone afaik, that's nowhere near enough to prove sexual dimorphism

[ocean drum]

Yeah but based on speculation/our current knowledge the pot Rex would be female

[tough parcel]

2-3 afaik

B-rex, Petey, and perhaps another I'm forgetting. I might be wrong

[nocturne cairn]

Ah alr, i only could remember B-rex

[nocturne cairn]

W/ current knowledge it'd be easier to assume individual variation

[ocean drum]

Can we just agree that pot’s Rex is female because of the evidence we have for sexual dimorphism in the T.rex

[heady thunder]

Why tho? Theres no actual evidence for it, also not all male adult rexes would have giant crests and be huge, thats genetics.

[ancient crystal]

What the heck is a B-rex?

[ocean drum]

Do you agree that spino ate fish then because that’s all based on speculation too

[nocturne cairn]

2-3 known female rexes is still far too low to prove sexual dimorphism, because larger specimens not preserving a medullary bone doesn't mean that they weren't a female, only that the bone wasn't preserved

[ocean drum]

They still did have smaller amounts of carotene around their eyes compared to the males tho

[heady thunder]

Theres proof about that iirc, like spino teeth marks on fish fossils.

[nocturne cairn]

An animal with teeth similar to modern piscivores in a clade of similar animals being speculated to eat fish is a lot smaller of an assumption than sexual dimorphism

[ancient crystal]

Also aren't spinos teeth like perfectly adapted for hunting fish to our knowledge?

[ocean drum]

I know but from what we’ve seen the females rexes are how I have described

[ocean drum]

That would be sucho

[nocturne cairn]

I don't think the full extent of the keratin on enough individuals who are also known to have/not have a medullary bone is large enough to prove that

If we found a rex that preserved both a medullary bone and indication of the extent of keratin, all that could be said from that is that the individual was female and that was how much keratin they had. Proving sexual dimorphism requires more evidence, but also depends on assuming that a lack of a medullary bone being recovered is due to it not being on the animal in life, and not due to preservation

[tough parcel]

We'd need more than the 30 specimens of rex to determine sexual dimorphism. Pteranodon was easy because of the size difference and hip size

[ocean drum]

Based on the studies given I don’t remember the source names but it still mentions carotene and mussel mass/tissue differences

[heady thunder]

How many dinos are we sure about them beinf dimorphic?

[nocturne cairn]

That would just be assumptions

[ocean drum]

And all of palaeontology is assumptions whats the difference

[ancient crystal]

I don't know why but I'd assume most dimorphism in dinosaurs would be in their general colorations

[heady thunder]

So only ptera, which isnt even a dinosaur.

[ocean drum]

In fact out of spite I’m going to mention spino being good at swimming when buoyancy tests say otherwise what of that then tbh everything we know is pretty much a hypothesis

[heady thunder]

No not the spoon.

[ancient crystal]

Waiting for spino to become an invalid genus, not because of any evidence saying as much, but simply because scientists gave up

[ocean drum]

Tbh I do agree

[compact leaf]

iirc don’t we have evidence of dimorphism in coelophysis? one sex was noticeably larger than the other we just don’t know which is which

[ancient crystal]

I seem to remeber reading something like that

[ripe ruin]

i remember hearing about robust and gracile morphs, idk if that means sexual dimorphism or no tho

[scenic flame]

there is no evidence of dimorphism, you're only assuming there is

[scenic flame]

we know spinosaurus ate fish because of it's morphology, paleo-pathologies and isotope testing, palaeontology is a very long way from being mostly guess work, it's a common but very wrong misconception

[heady thunder]

Yeah I remember about that, think they switched from the bigger morphs being females to them being males, but theres not much proof iirc for either so it is what it is

[scenic flame]

we actually have 0 evidence so far of any sexual dimorphism in any non avian dinosaurs so far, this doesn't mean it didn't exist but it does mean you would be scientifically wrong to say there is in a specific species like tyrannosaurus unless you have actual evidence to back up said claim

[scenic flame]

it isn't, otherwise we'd have a sex ratio of 1 female to 50 males since only one tyrannosaurus was discovered to have the "gracile morph"

of the rexes we do have that we know for sure are female, all 3 of them are pretty average and unremarkable, as in they're not significantly bigger or smaller than the average

[white matrix]

Most animals with prominent sexual dimorphism don’t show it skeletally, it’s not wrong to give it any, but you won’t find it in the bones

[ocean drum]

I was using sarcasm

Also there is evidence iirc I've seen some papers but the issue is it can take hours to find them

[ripe ruin]

fair, but i was speaking specifically in reference to ceolophysis but yea

[scenic flame]

oh right, iirc it was initially seen as dimorphism but was later rebutted

[scenic flame]

yeah, colour is the most likely area for most dinosaurs, especially since ceratopsian and hadrosaur ornamentation doesn't seem to chow evidence of dimorphism

[ruby geyser]

!map

[leaden furnace]

Interactive Panjura Map made by Coco.N
https://vulnona.com/game/pot/

Gondwa Food Map made by Murrocity
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/764284800373882883/1054424602727698432/GondwaFoodMap.jpg

[rose thorn]

Pterosaurs: Get a load of this guy

[white matrix]

Bruh I hate this discord’s rules with language and slow mode💀 Pterosaurs were on different s h it

[slim ridge]

Simply build different

[rose thorn]

No

[jagged trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/bart-simpson-the-simpsons-at-least-you-tried-fail-failure-gif-7859548

[red willow]

I fell for it too

[ocean drum]

was it a rick roll blue lobster or something else

[cinder jewel]

Ricky rolls

[stark pasture]

Is there actually any news on PreP season 2? I saw one image of a ankylosaur but that was about it.

[sudden wind]

No that's based on tooth morphology which correspond to fish eating habits in tetrapods as well as isotope analysis, confirming that Spinosaurus spent some times in waters as well as fed upon aquatic animals like fish.
We also found Spinosaur teeth in some fish fossils as well as fish as gut contents in Baryonyx, a relative of Spinosaurus.

For your female or male thing, it isn't very clear based on the evidences we have : which are the hip bone and medullary bones. The postorbiral boss has nothing to do with it, nor the nasal ridge. Those are different between specimens because of individual variation as far as we know of.

[ocean drum]

Do y’all not understand what sarcasm is I already knew that spinos teeth were adapted for eating fish it’s kinda obvious with them being conical and such

[sudden wind]

https://tenor.com/view/kratos-gif-23040516

[ocean drum]

You do realize that the carotene is also around the eyes witch is better for determining also the males specimens carotene seems to be similar in shape rather than the females

[nocturne cairn]

There are no specimens confirmed to be male, only ones confirmed to be female

[sudden wind]

First off : carotene is a pigment which correspond to yellow, orange and red colors.
Secondly, no. The keratin would be over the eye, on the postorbital boss which has an osteoderm. Elsewhere, like the nasal ridge, it'd be more like fused scales or some rugose texture similar to crocodile head (they are scaleless on their head though).

There is nothing in the scientific literature suggesting the determination of Tyrannosaurus rex specimen's sex based on the keratin sheath of their postorbital. Only the medullary bones and hip bone could potentially give some evidences if the animal was a female and if it bred before dying, like in the Allosaurus Big Al.

[neat drum]

The only surefire sexual dimorphism we know of(and even then its contested) is things like pteranodon

But in that case we have tons of specimens showing 2 distinct types

[covert lintel]

lack of medullary tissue doesn't mean a specimen is male, it just means it's not a female that was ovulating at the time of death. so, it could be a male, or it could be a female from literally any point in the year outside of its breeding season.
in other words, just because we have a couple of tyrannosaurus specimens that're confirmed to be female doesn't mean we can confidently treat any of the others as male, because females don't always have medullary tissue.

[sudden wind]

That'd be the same as if we found fossilized deer but those didn't have their antlers at the moment of their death.

[neat drum]

i get the example but we can tell antlerless bucks from does easily

As seen here, when buck/stag deer have no antlers, they still have the ridges of which antlers grow, does do not have this

Add on the distinctly larger size, more robust skeletal structure, and fangs(yes, fangs) we can usually identify deer sexes at a glance

But ofc to do this in a fossil taxon you would need multiple specimens that all consistently show the same morphology, something we normally do not have the luxary of being able to utilize

[ocean drum]

There are a few specimens with decent evidence of a certain sex

[nocturne cairn]

all of those are female, as they have a medullary bone. specimens that do not have a medullary bone are not confirmed to be male. the lack of a medullary bone being recovered does not mean that the specimen lacked one in life, because it always could have not been preserved

[covert lintel]

small correction: it's medullary tissue within certain bones, not an entire bone. B-rex was preserved with medullary tissue inside her femur

[neat drum]

Look at pteranodon, we have a good feeling that it is sexually dimorphic because of 1000+ specimens who all exhibit the same 2 bodyplans: a large individual with a large crest, and a smaller individual with a little crest and wide hips, thats enough evidence to see a pattern and go "yes, we believe this is sexual dimorphism"

And even then it isnt without its criticisms(though sexual dimorphism is widely accepted)

[nocturne cairn]

ah, thanks for the correction

[neat drum]

We have ones as well who look like the smaller bodyplan, but have narrow hips and are immature, likely juvenile males since we also have juveniles with wide hips

But if we only had, say, 20 of these specimens, we likely would not be able to make any connection at all, and may even consider the two different species as a result

To determine if spinosaurus was sexually dimorphic we'd need...well a lot more impressively complete specimens, and tyrannosaurus has the issue of time: it lived over a large time period and appears to change shape slightly over time, you'd need a ton of specimens from the same time period

[stoic tinsel]

There are only 2 specimens that we have a confirmed sex for both being female

the only dinosaur that i can think of that has any amount of sexual dimorphism is thescolosaurus

[ocean drum]

And with both those specimens the carotene around the eyes is less prominent than the majority of the rexes found

[stoic tinsel]

im pretty sure we dont have any keratin thats preserved on any tyrannosaurus individuals all we have are the lacrimal crests and the postorbital bosses we dont have any impressions of keratin over them

[little mauve]

Same arg that went on forever last night, not worth it, this guy has an axe to grind against the pot rex (or is trolling) and arguments don't really convince them

[ocean drum]

With the “ crests” the bone around it is less pronounced

[covert lintel]

a sample size of 2 doesn't tell us much

[neat drum]

Add 3 or more zeros and then we're talkin

[stoic tinsel]

no the size of crests on tyrannosaurus is consistent across most specimens, notably Scotty does have massive crests but Scotty is an outlier

[ocean drum]

Yea but it is assumed that Scotty was female

[stoic tinsel]

what soctty does not have a gender

[ocean drum]

In the video that describes how Scotty was found they state that they think Scotty was female

[stoic tinsel]

uhhhhh Scotty was described via a paper and ive read said paper countless times nowhere does it ever state scotty was female nor does it ever mention the sex of scotty

[ocean drum]

I’m not saying that Scotty was female I’m saying that in the video with the palaeontologists who found Scotty explaining how they found the specimen they referred to it as female

[neat drum]

Tyrannosaurus has tons of individual variation, which does not help with deciphering much

No two specimens look quite the same and then you add on the time period and the fact that tyrannosaurus definately had multiple species(not the regina imperator nonsense but yanno), makes deciphering things like dimorphism and social hierachy(which can sometimes be seen in bones, long story) impossible

[woeful falcon]

What video

[stoic tinsel]

yeah i dont know what video hes talking about

[ocean drum]

Imma try and find it

[neat drum]

It wouldnt surprise me if scotty as a specimen is referred to as she/her, but thats different than saying the specimen is female

We call sue a she, but no evidence of sue being female

But also p sure scotty is referred to as he/him

[covert lintel]

i would like to mention that some dinosaurs have individual variation so extreme that individuals of the same species have been previously considered to be in different genera
(most of the examples i'm thinking of are ceratopsians, which tyrannosaurus notably isn't, but my point stands: if individual variation can make two specimens seem like they're not even from the same genus, it can absolutely mess with our ability to determine what is and isn't sexual dimorphism)

[woeful falcon]

Time to dig this up again

Which rexes are confirmed/suspected females

[stoic tinsel]

allosaurus with its wacky individual variation

[stoic tinsel]

theres only 2 confirmed females to my knowledge

[woeful falcon]

B rex is one

[ocean drum]

I think this is the vid https://youtu.be/rLYwYo0GbwM

[neat drum]

Most of the individual variation im betting is due to nutritional reasons, like in tortoises

Slow growing + big + reptile = room for calcium issues and malnutrition induced bone changes

Big Bobby the allo didnt eat enough bones and didnt get enough calcium so his crests are peaked and his snout is thin, but Little Billy Joe the allo ate his bones and got a beefier head and rounded crests

[slim ridge]

The way you talk about them like they’re children who didn’t want to eat their veggies is amusing

[stoic tinsel]

id imagine little billy joe is NMMNH P-26083

[scenic flame]

the amount of keratin around the eye has 0 proven correlation to sex of the animal, it could very very easily be individual variation

[stoic tinsel]

we also dont have any preservation of keratin for any tyrannosaurus fossils

[scenic flame]

yeah, we can only guess within reason currently about the extent of the keratin based off the osteological correlates for it

[neat drum]

We also just dont have enough specimens to make any assumptions

[stoic tinsel]

honestly i dont even think having more specimens would help either

[neat drum]

If you have enough specimens from the same timeframe you can look at em for similarities and differences and go from there

[small dagger]

Yeah, unless we get preserved keratin or keratin imprints it wouldnt really help, you can look at the rougosity of the bone to make an educated guess of how much keratin was there though

Something like this is possible

[neat drum]

Would you find evidence of dimorphism? Dunno, but bigger sample size = better chances of seeing patterns

[woeful falcon]

Where there's a horn there's a way

In regards to keratin not dimorphism

Most necessary edit I've had to make in a bit lmao

[small dagger]

Plus we can make reference to modern birds and the extent of their keratinous coverings, like a cassowary, though they aren’t the best analogue atleast they are an analogue at all

[stoic tinsel]

tarbosaurus is a chump look at his tiny crests

[woeful falcon]

How dare you insult my beloved

[stoic tinsel]

ay man he got no crests

[flat pond]

If only I could play as it lol

[heady thunder]

Speed Rex, only in name.

[stoic tinsel]

Sergi will get to it eventually

[flat pond]

That’s not a true Tarbosaurus lol

And yes, I can’t wait to see Sergi’s. I hope it looks good.

[heady thunder]

Hey, its either that, or hoping someone mods it.