paleontology

[little mauve]

No, Leaellynasaura was from a different formation that is about 10 million years older. Gondwanan ornithopods related to it coexisted with Australovenator however

they're undescribed but multiple good specimens, will be a paper eventually I'm sure

[light osprey]

Real question is who let paloeartists shrinkwrap theropod fenestrae 🤢

[little mauve]

Paleoart evolves. Shrinkwrapping started in the 80s and got big in the 90s because before that artists wouldn't pay much attention to the anatomy, like at all, and we got all these lumpy bipedal lizard looking guys. Then Greg Paul and others came along and started building up from the skeleton, the shrink wrapping was to show anatomical detail. Now we've rightly moved beyond that but it served its purpose in its time.

[vast narwhal]

I did 😈

[river citrus]

shame

[glad gorge]

where did people get the idea that troodon was the "most intelligent dinosaur" when (iirc) we only have a fossilized tooth that might not even belong to it or something

[woeful falcon]

probably the Troodontids once synonymous with it

which, ironically, Latenivenatrix recently was considered a junior synonym of Stenonychosaurus also. Both formerly Troodon

[little mauve]

Stenonychosaurus skull material specifically was the original subject of the big brain study & the inspiration for the original dinosauroid

[past comet]

Is deinocheirus oversized?

[woeful falcon]

it PoT? yeah prolly. whether its oversized relative to the other large animals idk but best to just throw most sizes out the window for accuracy

and if it is upscaled, idk by how much.

[jagged trellis]

pretty sure duck is fine on height but longer than it should be, can't confirm though

[pearl briar]

yay theropod has lips is canon

[tawdry lintel]

I honestly think the same as some of the experts, we can't be 100% sure of most things about dinosaurs, paleontology is always changing, so we can't be totally taotally sure of it, but i think that's not bad, is really cool

[charred gulch]

Pretty much

[tawdry lintel]

You mean you agree ?

[snow python]

Any size estimations for the White Rock Spinosaurid?

[chilly knot]

No and how

[little karma]

What is the most rarely spoken dino species for you? For me, it was the megaraptor. Any expert on this dino ? Cuz I recently discovered it

[hardy ravine]

The most unspeaked dino is . Stygimoloch

[white matrix]

artic trex

[hardy ravine]

Under this explanation, there are three types. These are Tyrannosaurus imperator, a robust form with two incisiform teeth; Tyrannosaurus rex, a robust form with one incisor; and Tyrannosaurus regina, a slender form with one incisor

[white matrix]

thanx and was thinking of the feathered ones from the when dinos roamed earth series i believe

[hardy ravine]

they must be furred or feathered who knows

[woeful falcon]

What am I reading

Nanuqsaurus is what you're looking for

[covert lintel]

dinosaurs were very much not furred, there's currently only one species of tyrannosaurus, and also that's a picture of nanuqsaurus

[woeful falcon]

Google image searched "arctic rex" and sure enough that image was the first.

Ya that's a Nanuqsaurus

[glad gorge]

how does a radiodonts mouth work
i am very confused
did they just slurp up food or did they somehow chew their food

like WHAT

[light osprey]

There were a few furry tyrannosaurids, notably nanuqsaurus and yutyrannus, but the vast majority of genera show a condition for scales.

[tough parcel]

Yutyrannus is not a tyrannosaurid. No tyrannosaurid has evidence of feathers (though it's likely all had them to some extent)

[light osprey]

Uh yutyrannus is definitely in the tyrannosauroidae family. And it did definitely preserve direct evidence of feathers

[tough parcel]

Yes, tyrannosauroid, not tyrannosaurid, two very different things. I never denied it had feathers either

[light osprey]

Typo, my mistake.

The “O” escapes me lol

[tough parcel]

Np np, it's a common error so I just wanted to make sure it was known 👍

[vast narwhal]

Technically feathers are a form of scales

[past comet]

That’s not actually true. The structure and formation are extremely different

[stiff osprey]

Nonetheless, they did evolve from scales

[frigid coral]

if you wanted to be generous, you could call it a highly deprived scale (though isn’t correct)

[cinder jewel]

Wait are they not highly derived scales? I haven't looked that deeply into them but I thought that's how feathers initially evolved?

[light osprey]

They did, but morphologically they’re quite different now. Fun fact tho, psittacosaurus’ quills are actually specialised scales

[neat drum]

they are a derived scute, not a scale

feathers, the leg scutes of birds, and the scutes of crocodillians are the same structure

but they are different than the scales of the lepidosaurs, and definately different than mammal scales

[lilac vale]

Why would feathers be derived from scutes if non-avian dinosaurs had scales

[past comet]

Well I don’t know if it’s fair to call them the exact same structure, because the dna for the scutes in birds comes from feather dna while the scutes from crocs do not

[neat drum]

the feathered alligator would like a word

also nonavian dinosaurs would have scutes like the legs of birds, ig you could call em scales but think bird leg but whole body

[past comet]

One can apply a bone morphogenic protein to bird scutes and they turn back into feathers. This doesn’t happen with crocs

[lilac vale]

What’s the definition of a scute

[neat drum]

https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/35/2/417/4627828

^ the primitive feather like structure in an alligator embryo paper

[past comet]

With crocs, it’s quite a stretch to call the frayed scutes produced from this study, feathers

Feather-like is not feathers, what was produced is more like frayed scutes, Whereas in birds it’s a direct transition from bird scutes to full feathers as the researchers say.

[past comet]

In addition, the study done on the alligators only produced feather bud like structures. The experiments on chicken scutes were the ones that produced the similar structures to the ones found in coelurosaur dinosaur fossils such as sinosauropteryx

A scute is a solidified keratinous outgrowth from the skin. Mammals, birds and the other reptiles all have different ones.

[vast narwhal]

I got scutes ‼️

[little mauve]

β-keratins are only found in reptile dermis & bird feathers, so the two are more homologous than either are to mammalian skin. Feather-like is feather imo, it reminds me of differentiating between pycnofibres & feathers- I don't see it as anything more than semantics

The alligator study produced "Some morphotypes resemble filamentous appendages found in feathered dinosaur fossils, whereas others exhibit characteristics of modern avian feathers."

So they managed to get both, you can disagree with their definitions but I don't see the practical or technical advantage of doing that

[wind prairie]

was palaeophis colossaeus capable of moving on land?

[ripe ruin]

If modern sea snakes are any point of reference
No

[past comet]

This part of the study was part explained as part of the chicken study. If you look at the alligator part, all they managed to do is generate structures that are close to feather buds.

[past comet]

Agreed, that reptilian scutes and bird feathers are more similar to each other than mammalian scutes, however I think the distinction is pretty significant, given that feathers have quills and these Pycnofibers do not.

[white matrix]

Most likely not but maybe for a short span

[wind prairie]

I'm assuming it wouldn't really be able to move properly on land, but it could wriggle itself back into the water easier than most

[white matrix]

Yeah

[jagged trellis]

i mean the literal ceratosaurus might know

[white matrix]

How did you know

[wind prairie]

how come?

[jagged trellis]

just had a hunch

[white matrix]

Didn’t think it was that obvious

[little mauve]

Ah I see, so am I safe to assume you don't consider simple filamentous covering on stuff like sinosauropteryx to be feathers? May just be a matter of personal definitions being different rather than a technical debate

[wind prairie]

do pterosaurs' pycnofibres count as feathers?

[little mauve]

In my opinion they do but it's not a totally settled matter, some people prefer a stricter definition. Pterosaurs also had more complex feathers than just the hairlike pycnofibers, so the view i agree with is you might as well just call them all feathers

[woeful falcon]

I've been calling them feathers recently, excluding context where in I would refer to them as pycnofibers for clarification purposes

[little mauve]

Yup that's my rule of thumb as well

[wind prairie]

is opabinia's mouth the thing at the end of its trunk? or is that just a grabber

[white matrix]

No its under its head its like a elephant its trunk grabs its food and puts it into the mouth

[prime nexus]

!dino-list

[leaden furnace]

https://alderon.games/help-dinolist

[wind prairie]

what did silesaurs eat??

[stark pasture]

Bugs and/or plants

[past comet]

Yeah I say feather-like filaments or pycnofibers. Feathers makes people think penaceous branching feathers. So I usually make the distinction, especially when talking about complex gene manipulated outcomes in experiments

[vocal breach]

did giga ever live with argent?

[white matrix]

I think it was mapusaurus, but I am no expert 🙂

[wind prairie]

nope

[stiff osprey]

Giga lived with a giant titanosaur that hasn't been named yet. Js is right, mapu lived with argent

[pearl briar]

only mapu that lived with argentino
giga lived with that 'unnamed titanosaur'

[little mauve]

Fair enough, glad we clarified Fwiw I don't make the distinction as a way to invite the comparison, I don't necessarily see the harm in it and it's a useful precaution against BANDitry. I respect the position you're taking though, it's certainly more precise.

[light osprey]

Have any of the unnamed specimens in the Nemegt formation received any new neotypes or general research to determine genera / species names?

[weak vale]

alright this is gonna be weird, does anyone have apatosaurus feet pics? Preferably the front not the side, and skinned, not skeletal.

[pearl briar]

should i use a 12.4 meters long rex or 11.8 meters long rex? (left: 12.4 meters right: 11.8 meters)
(all arts credit by @tough parcel he/she are good at drawing dinos)

[weak vale]

i see we have the same servers @pearl briar

[stiff osprey]

What are you using it for? 12.4 meters is the largest rex, average rex is around 11.6 meters which is closer to 11.8

[tough parcel]

Thank you, that’s why I downscaled it. I remembered I did, but couldn’t recall why

[pearl briar]

can i use both 11.6-12.4 meters?

[stiff osprey]

You could do 10.5-12.4 meters as that covers smallest and largest size

[pearl briar]

ok thx
anyway what @tough parcel rex art should i use for?
left or right

[tough parcel]

I'd go for the average tbh, but I'm iffy on you using it cause it's fairly dated in terms of my ability

[pearl briar]

well ok
thx for ur art @tough parcel ur art is always amazing 👍
(i'll always credit you)

[tough parcel]

👍 Tysm! Very based of you

[pearl briar]

ok
time to work then

[wind prairie]

why did brachiosuchus look like that bruh

why the ridiculous forelimbs

[light osprey]

Wondering if it’s got it’s gastralia 👀

[pearl briar]

left is using the 12.4 meters rex
right is using the 11.8 meters rex
(all of this work belongs to @tough parcel a big appreciation for your beautiful work)

[pearl briar]

idk don't ask me
ask god 🙃

[safe forum]

I plan on making a torvosaurus profile suggestion on the server I play on, is there anywhere to get reliable info

If so please send it to me please

[wind prairie]

don't ping me without knowing at all because I'll come back expecting an answer

[past comet]

Thanks! I respect your decision as well.

[white matrix]

Dose anyone know if a certain hadrosaur would store water in a hump or any other way if not tell me.

[stiff osprey]

Nah there are no animals that store water in humps

Camels for example use them to store fat, bison humps are pure muscle

[white matrix]

Ok thx for telling me Ouranosaurus had me worked up

[steady rock]

3 - 4 tons Carcharodontosauridaes?

[stiff osprey]

Siats and Chilantai are just over 4t iirc

[tough parcel]

Lumper

[stiff osprey]

Oh
They're not Carcharodontosauridae are they

[storm heron]

What is the current consensus on Carcharadontosaur spines: fat storage or muscle hump.

[bright veldt]

Eocarcharia, Sauroniops, and Kelmayisaurus (probably)

[tough parcel]

AFAIK Siats-Chilantai are in some sort of weird limbo

[stiff osprey]

Muscle hump. Except Concavenator, its hump purpose is unknown (probably display?)

[storm heron]

I thought there was the possibility that Concavenator's "hump" was akin to that of a Camel

[white matrix]

Yeah it was most likely display

[stiff osprey]

It is possible

[bright veldt]

Siats and Chilantai I personally put as close to carcharodontosauridae but not quite (whatever on earth is going on with 'neovenatorids' in general)

[stiff osprey]

Eocarch and Kelmayi are 2 ish tonnes, Sauroniops is [REDACTED]

[bright veldt]

I thought they were, like, just about 3 tons

[stiff osprey]

American tons maybe :L

I should've said 2.something tonnes, they may be closer to 3 tonnes than to 2

[tough parcel]

Ate too many cheeseburgers :[

[white matrix]

too many cheeseburgers = FAT dino

Very chonk

[steady rock]

how accurate was the planet dinosaur centro/das scene?

could daspleto's actually walk through hundreds of centros without getting beat up instantly?

[stiff osprey]

It's largely up to the vibes tbh. Sometimes entire buffalo/bison herds will let lions/wolves run through them, sometimes they will turn around and trample then

[steady rock]

damn

[storm heron]

Yea, there is a lot of uncertainty of how a herbivores will react at given times

[steady rock]

so if you a carni and you have good vibes you get a vip pass through the herd?

[bright veldt]

I think it aged oddly well, considering its now known that the majority of ceratopsids probably weren't as well defended as typically depicted.

[storm heron]

E.g. you can have Rhinos chasing off a pack of lions, then you can have Hyenas just strolling and casually biting a one Rhino in a group of three Rhinos.

[steady rock]

wait what?

[stiff osprey]

Herbivores usually don't realize that if they all work together they would easily trump the predator, so most of the time they will just run and let predators single one out

But sometimes they do realize it

[bright veldt]

Ceratopsid horns/frills were primarily for social display rather than defense, and most barely work as defenses.

Triceratopsini was probably an exception considering their larger size allowed them to fend off predators easier, on top of the more universal appearance/shape of their horns implying a more practical purpose.

[steady rock]

was trike a expection to that? everything in hell creek is a expection it seems

[stiff osprey]

Wouldn't say most, there's only a few ceratopsids that cannot easily stab predators. But the predators would have ways around that, and predator defense wasn't their main purpose

[storm heron]

I read about this in Whitton's blog regarding horns, but I have to ask, what is the reason of why Triceratops' frills did not have holes in them (other Triceratopsins are also large but have holes in their frills), and what is the purpose of the holes then?

[stiff osprey]

The holes are for lightening the weight of the skull, allowing for a larger display surface

[frigid coral]

IMO horns were originally adapted for display, but as time went on they became useful for defense as well

[steady rock]

question, you know how tigers and lions can crossbreed, could torosaurus and trike crossbreed?

[bright veldt]

Thats something that can't really be figured out purely from bones. That'd require detail on exactly how closely related they are that's lost.

[storm heron]

Tigers and Lions are more closely related to each other than Torosaurus and Triceratops is

[stiff osprey]

As for why Trike didn't have them, either it had some different fighting style to other ceratopsids, or the walking hydraulic press it shared its environment with has something to do with it

[storm heron]

Is this referring to Tyrannosaurus? the walking hydraulic press

[bright veldt]

I know many speculate that the more brute-force attitude they had at interspecific interactions might've led to the lack of holes, and their use in defense in general, but idk why that'd make trike an exception there rather than triceratopsini in general.

[stiff osprey]

Well, we don't know whether Eotrike had frill holes (I would guess not), which leaves Toro as the only triceratopsin without a solid frill

[storm heron]

What if Titanoceratops was a Triceratopsin, is this being debated still or is it more likely it was a Pentaceratops relative

[bright veldt]

Maybe, maybe not.

[stiff osprey]

It's debated

[storm heron]

Because doesn't Titanoceratops have holes in its frill?

[bright veldt]

What grounds are there for titanoceratops being a triceratopsini? Like specifically?

[stiff osprey]

Titano afaik doesn't live with any giant tyrannosaurs, so the holes would not have impaired it if that is the purpose of the solid frill

[steady rock]

what ceratopsians are valid in hell creek?

[bright veldt]

Triceratops (both species) and Torosaurus

[storm heron]

Hmm, how certain are we with the lack of holes --> associated with large Tyrannosaur presence? Because Torosaurus co-existed with Tyrannosaurus as well.

[steady rock]

these two

[bright veldt]

I'm not convinced about either of them.

[steady rock]

oh, why?

[storm heron]

Not to mention many other Ceratopsians lived with Tyrannosaurs, and while they may not have been +7000kg giants, they were large compared to the Ceratopsians while having proportionally high bite forces.

[bright veldt]

afaik aren't the specimens that people suspect being this 'nedoceratops' being just hunches by people without any literature backing, with little attention paid to what makes this supposed 'nedoceratops' a taxa in the first place?

[stiff osprey]

Toro's presence shows the correlation is not exact, but since this is common in biology I don't think it discredits the idea in any way

[bright veldt]

I haven't even heard of this Tatankaceratops either

[stiff osprey]

This however is a solid point, my guess is that solid frills were not strictly necessary for survival, but once they happened to appear in Trike's lineage, they were positively selected

[tough parcel]

It's a super small, supposedly adult animal (Black Hills Institute is holding it hostage last I checked)

[bright veldt]

ah, then who cares, got it

[steady rock]

who isnt holding dinosaurs hostage

[stiff osprey]

Which is supported by the fact that if rex really wanted to, it could just bite through a solid frill anyway.

But it's harder to do than a big hollow frill

[steady rock]

may we discuss the nodasaurid that lived with tyrannosaurus?

[bright veldt]

Denversaurus?

[steady rock]

yuh

[storm heron]

Yea it is harder to bite through a solid frill than a hollow one.

[steady rock]

how good did saurians denverasaurus hold up?

[bright veldt]

Golden afaik? By Saurian's standards I've always heard their ankylosaurians were exceptional.

[steady rock]

is there any bad saurian depictions or are they all pretty good still?

[storm heron]

I don't know if this is a good comparison, but this somewhat reminds me of how Cape Buffaloes' horns form a boss in the middle and the Forest + Asian water Buffaloes do not. Regarding the solid frill vs hollow frill in Ceratopsians.

[bright veldt]

I'm not a fan of the Tyrannosaurus in general. Dakotaraptor's entire existence also hasn't aged well.

[tough parcel]

Their Trike

Their Denver might also be wonky, but it's Denver so no-one's cared about it in years

[steady rock]

dakotaraptor hunting champosaurus

[wind prairie]

dakotaraptor is a better turtle than stupendemys ever will be

[bright veldt]

I say dakotaraptor's existence being questionable, not because 'har har turtle' or 'har har chimera' and more just DePalma's work in general being questionable af

[steady rock]

you know who also is questionable? jack horner

[sweet plover]

Jesus Christ it’s been forever since I’ve been in here

[wind prairie]

yes? this matters how?

[bright veldt]

Horner's a questionable figure but he hasn't had accusations of fabricating his studies and refusing for anyone to even see his 'supposed' specimens

[steady rock]

how many of his theories held up about the hell creek gang?

[wind prairie]

didn't david peters reconstruct yutyrannus bald??

[sweet plover]

The Saurian tyrannosaurus looks like a big chunk of salami

[wind prairie]

vomit

[elfin pulsar]

What in the hell

[wind prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/my-eyes-gif-19334673

[bright veldt]

I'm not a fan of Saurian's tyrannosaur because they jumped on the featherless rex thing way too quickly.

[steady rock]

uh let me think of jack horners theories
torosaurus and triceratops being the same
nanotyrannus is a juvie trex
stgy, draco and pachy are all growth stages

[sweet plover]

BALD BALD BALD

MY EEEEEEEEYEEEEES

Can someone elaborate on dakotaraptor’s existence being questionable? I think I’ve been in the dark about this (aside from the chimera stuff)

[bright veldt]

It is described by DePalma, who is a very controversial figure that has had accusations of fabricating his studies and refuses for anyone else to see his work, which is mighty suspicious. As far as I am concerned dakotaraptor doesn't exist unless an unrelated party is able to verify that it does.

[sweet plover]

Ah I see. It would be a shame if dakotaraptor was fabricated this entire time

At least we have little archeroraptor and an indeterminate troodontid

[wind prairie]

I would eat acheroraptor

[sweet plover]

Chimken wimg

Looking up this Robert DePalma and he isn’t a good person I’m finding

Why are there so many weird paleontologists out there

[bright veldt]

Scientists are nerdy wierdos. Who knew?

[light osprey]

Who let em cook?!

[wind prairie]

I call them paleophiles

[tough parcel]

Holtz and Hartman, the fuckin goats

[sweet plover]

Maybe not just weird, just insane

Sorry for ping I forgot to turn it off

This is why I want to study fossil invertebrates rather than dinosaurs, as special as dinosaurs are to me

[stiff osprey]

Having studied fossil invertebrates, at least dinosaurs make sense 😭

[storm heron]

The Paleontologists who name extremely fragmentary fossils are insane.

[sweet plover]

But opabinia, my beloved

You know what’s really weird? Tunicates, acorn worms.

[stiff osprey]

I like shipworms

[sweet plover]

What’s the fear of small holes called again?

[wind prairie]

trypophobia? (don't post anything that'll trigger it)

[sweet plover]

What kind of invertebrates did you study?

[stiff osprey]

Ostracods, one of many kinds of bean shaped crustacean

and maybe I was just bad at taxonomy but their classification seems heavily based on ...vibes

[sweet plover]

Didn’t know those existed until today ngl
Ty for enlightening me

[red willow]

Although Dakota is questionable, is there still evidence of a large dromaeosaurid in hell creek due to the huge claw?

[stiff osprey]

The teeth and caudal vertebrae in Dakota are unquestionably dromaeosaur. But it's debated if it's a giant dromaeosaur or just like, a moderately large one

I've seen estimates from Utahraptor size all the way down to Deinonychus size for the material

[storm heron]

iirc there are also possible Dromaeosaurid teeth that was discovered before the Dakotaraptor holotype was discovered.

[neat drum]

theres also acheroraptor

[pearl briar]

is this accurate for a gigantopithecus blacki size?

[bright veldt]

No

[pearl briar]

no?

[bright veldt]

Gigantopithecus has been downsided significantly in recent years. Still the largest ape to exist, but is now only slightly larger than a gorilla rather than up to 3 meters tall.

[pearl briar]

is this blacki?

[bright veldt]

G. blacki is the only valid genus of Giganopithecus. The others were found to be Indopithecus instead (and even then they're smaller than blacki).

[pearl briar]

so g. giganteus is invalid?

[bright veldt]

It's Indopithecus giganteus now.

[pearl briar]

ok then

[pearl briar]

is 200-300 kg gigantopithecus is still accurate to use?

[bright veldt]

Yes

[pearl briar]

ok

[pearl briar]

so when gigantopithecus stood on its two hind legs it was 3 meters tall like this?

[bright veldt]

More like a little bit over 2

[pearl briar]

here?

[bright veldt]

Better.

[pearl briar]

again thx for the help

[ebon gate]

It stood about 290-300 cm tall

[bright veldt]

Gigantopithecus is not 3 meters tall.

[ebon gate]

Gigantopithecus Blacki stood at a nice 2.98 meters tall on Average

[bright veldt]

No it did not. Those tall estimates are largely from comparing it to australopithecines (and is largely a contributor to the bigfoot appearance popularly seen) but when actually scaled to closer related great apes, like gorillas and orangutans, you get a much shorter animal. Still the largest ape ever but not that giant.

[heady thunder]

So a gorilla sized orangutang.

[ebon gate]

I will continue to perpetuate this information as multiple reputable sources state it is 2.9 meters tall

[bright veldt]

Eh gigantopithecus being just a giant orangutan are likely exaggerated (it's comparing an aboreal animal to a terrestrial one after all) but yeah. Modern sizes come out to slightly larger than the biggest gorillas.

[bright veldt]

There's sources going as far back as the 1980s of Gigantopithecus being 20% to 25% larger than gorillas, using closely related animals like gorillas for comparison. Again, the methods of estimation matter.

[pearl briar]

what is the location of gigantopithecus?

[bright veldt]

China

[pearl briar]

southern china?

special thx to @bright veldt for the help
i presenting to you guys Gigantopithecus
(likely) the direct relative to orangutans 🦧

[heady thunder]

Monke.

[chilly knot]

All the sources share this issue

[hushed valve]

no more 3 meter tall monkey ehehehe

[sudden wind]

lmao

[hallow shell]

Azhdarchid gameplay

[little karma]

Did Maip Macrothorax (The Shadow of Death) can jump like the dromeosaurs?

[tough parcel]

No

[little karma]

Japan lied to me

[tough parcel]

RIP

[pearl briar]

do you expecting a 3 ton maip can jump?

[little karma]

Honestly, yeah

I did have doubt though

[pearl briar]

https://tenor.com/view/me-too-me-too-kid-incredibles-gif-19919940

[little karma]

https://youtu.be/ectGT6XWBNU

[novel atlas]

https://youtu.be/S8Vpbn2_bV8

[little karma]

This is the reason why I thought it could jump

[tough parcel]

Guys guys!! New carcharodontosaurid

Holy heck, 1 minute CD timer

[chilly knot]

When you give a dinosaur documentary into the hands of anime studios

[chilly knot]

Genjutsu on this level doesn't work on me

[little karma]

Good point

[tough parcel]

https://twitter.com/PrimevalArtist/status/1642155229939367938?s=20

Falcon9 (Commissions Open!) (@PrimevalArtist)

Hello everybody and welcome to a special edition of Falcon's Size Charts! I'd like to appreciate @PPaleoartist for helping me with this reconstruction. A new carcharodontosaurid has been unearthed, pushing the group into the late Maas, 66 mya! Named after its famous movie debut!

Twitter · Apr 1, 2023, 1:21 PM

[pearl briar]

introducing the real life jwd giga

[chilly knot]

Lol I will share this

[pearl briar]

note: it's mid fragmentary so length and weight are still on gdi testing (ig)

[acoustic light]

Source: PrimevalArtist on Twitter

[pearl briar]

but wait
here's the weird idea but likely fricked up
giga length and weight + spino length and weight=gigaspinus length and weight

[sweet plover]

What is carnotaurus doing there

[rose thorn]

Possible contemporary

Both were in Argentina around the same time

[sullen dust]

Is this real or just April fools thing I'm not sure whether to believe this

[sudden wind]

OMG MY NEW FAVORITE CARCHARODONTOSAUR GOT REVEALED

[hushed valve]

real😱

[sweet plover]

I’m ducking stupid I got Maip mixed up with fukuiraptor

[sweet plover]

“Substantial toe beans”

Thinking about concavenator toe beans

[novel atlas]

I love the Meraxes bit

[sweet plover]

“Its toes would’ve had substantial beans”
Giga toe beans

[small dagger]

found a side view of Max Belliomos rex
So amazing

[tough parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/model-monty-python-and-the-gif-13701305

[small dagger]

no
its a hope 😮

[frigid coral]

am I stretching it to make a carnivorous pachyrhinosaurus based on speculative evolution

[tough parcel]

Yes

[compact leaf]

yeah that’s a pretty huge stretch

[jagged trellis]

carnivore pachyrhino sounds like it has diet problems tbh, might need some greens in it

[frigid coral]

what about mostly carnivore pachyrhino but with some greens still in its diet?

[jagged trellis]

if we doing on muh realism and wanting pachyrhino to curb stomp something with more reasons, id go omnivore road

[frigid coral]

moreso eating far more meat than other ceratopsians, but still eating veggies as well due to it not being that deprived

basically an omnivore

and I can explain

pachyrhinosaurus. P has multiple fairly sized creatures in its environment, but it is still one of the largest. What is interesting is the tomial tooth Pachy. P has, which is also present in modern-day birds of prey. What was this for? Killing prey quickly via biting the necks and severing vertebrae. Pachy P. Has something very similar to that on its beak. Ceratopsians also have remarkably strong bite force, or at least far so more than one would expect.

Is it a big stretch? Sure, but IMO this could have assisted in its diet.

Why would Pachyrhino need to do or have this? I’m not sure.

[jagged trellis]

the need for it to do is: because it could, so no need to worry on that end, though i wouldn't count biteforce in as the sole factor but yeah go for it if ya doing speculative, but best bet would be le omni route

[frigid coral]

for comparison here’s the tomial tooth of a modern day raptor and Pachy. P

the beaks aren’t too similarly shaped but maybeeeeeee

[frigid coral]

omni route is probably safest yeah, doubt pachy would be completely carnivorous considered it’s relatives

[tough parcel]

Parrots have it for eating tough shelled foods, it’s not a carnivore exclusive

[frigid coral]

Im aware, that’s what I considered too, imo it seems more likely but I wanted to bring up the carni possibility in addition

I’m sorry I just was thinking bout it and thought it would be interesting

not suggesting that pachy definitely used it for killing stuff or that the carnivore theory is more likely than whatever else, again, I just thought it’d be interesting to mention and hear peoples thoughts

also not tryna go for “well it’s cooler so thus I’m gonna ignore any other possibility”, again, I just wanted to mention it

[jagged trellis]

i do 100% see pachyrhino just murking something and grabbing a leg for the go leaving the rest for raw carnivores though, just a funny idea

[sweet plover]

I think there are better candidates for a ceratopsid omnivore than pachyrhinosaurus

But I always like seeing omnivore ceratopsids, it’s fun

[noble steeple]

Doing something for jira rn
How long would a 8t teno be?

[bitter vault]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHZmRr3EhOk is it really finally true ???

[slim ridge]

I would go the boar route of things if that makes sense?
Mostly a low-foraging animal searching vegetation in the leaf litter, eating whatever unfortunate animal it comes across, or carrion if it comes it’s way.

[nocturne gazelle]

Or could to the hippo route. Built for herbivore diet yet eats meat so much for funsies that they get sick.

[heady thunder]

Hippo being a menace for lolz.

https://youtube.com/shorts/xDdvN9Wh-nc?feature=share

This critter looks very cool, is it between an ankylosaur and stegosaur or is it debated?

[wind prairie]

it's a basal thyreophoran

[heady thunder]

Big words, more resarch needed.

So from what I researched, its a cousin of stegosaurs and ankylosaurs, cool critter.

[torn sluice]

What's the fastest (projected) dino we know that's larger than a raptor and on land

[woeful falcon]

Probably an ornithomimid. Though "larger than a raptor" doesn't help to much just because there's raptors of different sizes.

[torn sluice]

Well I kinda mean anything bigger than a Utah or achillobator pretty much

[stoic tinsel]

how fast is the fastest ornithomimid?

[woeful falcon]

I couldn't tell ya off hand

[jagged trellis]

atleast 1

[torn sluice]

Maybe 2 if you lucky

[woeful falcon]

fairly large bodied animals that I immediately throw in the bracket of speed would be things like Carno, Deltadromeus, the Albertosaurines

I assume Qianzhou is probably rather swift as well

[broken rover]

Colin Trevorrow discovered?

[bright veldt]

Late af but the art is by Dragonthunders

[tough parcel]

Actually iirc alioramins (maybe just Alio proper) aren't built for the ZOOM as much as same-sized juvenile tyrannosaurs were

[pearl briar]

yes
theropod canonnly has lips

[bright veldt]

Lipless theropods has always been an inherently biased idea that had numerous holes in it for years.

[torn sluice]

Hmm. What dino has the strongest leg strength proportional to body weight that we know of. I'm pretty sure pachys are one of em?

[jagged trellis]

me

[pearl briar]

thx again scan

[broken rover]

hummingbird it's a confirmed fact(It's a joke on the 1 of April )

[torn sluice]

I meant dinosaur. Also the dung beetle is ridiculously strong too

[white matrix]

Hercules beetle.

[pearl briar]

How did Rex become the king of predators?
it's mentality?

[woeful falcon]

big

[jagged trellis]

humans liking big animal is how

[bright veldt]

Basically this. Along with holding like 5 other world records for some god-forsaken reason.

[woeful falcon]

rex won out with its name

sounds cool, easy to say, fits it in so many ways beyond the original that its comical

[rose thorn]

Because late cretaceous fauna were all insane

[woeful falcon]

you know though

tyrannosaurus is also just a cool looking animal too. it has a nice aesthetic to it

[rose thorn]

Sauropod sized hadrosaurs, giant walking tables with flails for tails, the anomaly that is Deinocherius, etc etc. Maastricht Cretaceous went all out with the weird

[woeful falcon]

course I'm biased towards tyrannosaurs. but how could I not be

[heady thunder]

TRex is just, THAT guy.

[woeful falcon]

can a homie get a new albertosaurine pls and thank

[pearl briar]

is there any newtonian spino and giga bite force test?

[ancient knoll]

Spino was like 1.2 tons and giga was around 2.5
Which is 12000 and 25000 newtons

[pearl briar]

thank you

[pearl briar]

is my largest 'wolf' trophy i've ever hunted is too big for a Aenocyon Dirus?

she's 860 kg big lad
is she too big even for an accurate dire wolf?

[twin tapir]

WAY TOO BIG, aenocyon is only slightly larger than a modern wolf, 860kg is larger than polar bears

[bright veldt]

Aenocyon was less than a meter tall at the shoulder and about 60 kg

[gritty orchid]

Hatz when😩 sarco grab when😩

[bright veldt]

wrong chat m8

[pearl briar]

does my 'wooly rhinoceros' is too small or too big for being a Coelodonta?
also is it true that brontotherium is larger than coelodonta?

[wind prairie]

what are the differences between aenocyon and modern grey wolves?

[bright veldt]

About right physical size but it's too heavy (Coeladonta was about 2-3 tons afaik). Megacerops (the proper name for Brontotherium) is about 50% larger afaik.

[storm heron]

https://twitter.com/VoyaWolfProject/status/1641803676426616833/photo/1

Voyageurs Wolf Project (@VoyaWolfProject)

The age-old question: do wolves kill for fun or sport? Often stories of such behavior are accompanied by photos or videos of wolf-killed prey that have not been eaten or are only partially consumed.

Long but hopefully informative thread for those interested...

Likes

377

Twitter · Mar 31, 2023, 2:04 PM

[wind prairie]

what are the biggest terrestrial synapsid carnivores? (proper mammal or not)

[rose plume]

what we talkin about rn

[woeful falcon]

Obligate?

[wind prairie]

? oh just primarily carnivorous

[pearl briar]

so megacerops is really bigger than coelodonta?

[bright veldt]

Yes

[woeful falcon]

Ye obligate then

Uh idk the answer to that. Sort of shakes things up a bit. I don't think short faced bears were obligate were they?

[wind prairie]

to my knowledge arctodus itself is a more carnivorous omnivore whereas arctotherium is more herbivorous

[bright veldt]

I think the largest hypercarnivorous synapsid is anteosaurus? I think it's 1.2-1.3 tons?

[wind prairie]

wait really? megistotherium and paraentelodon look bigger (unless anteosaurus is bigger than I realized)

[bright veldt]

Megistotherium at it's largest is 700kg, and Paraentelodon's about the same size but is an omnivore.

[wind prairie]

so are these all accurate?

[bright veldt]

Arctodus didn't have a diet spectrum too different from modern brown bears. Arctotherium started out similar but became more herbivorous over time when more competition from the north showed up like dire wolves.

And yes

[stoic tinsel]

i find it hilarious that the largest terrestrial predator of the cenozoic is still an archosaur

[wind prairie]

barinasuchus moment

[stoic tinsel]

love me my 1.7t sebecid

[wind prairie]

how big is andrewsarchus as of now?

[stoic tinsel]

last i saw 600kg or so

[wind prairie]

did titanichthys still have teeth to bite with?

[stoic tinsel]

no, had stuff to bite with iirc but not teeth

[wind prairie]

are those not teeth?

[stoic tinsel]

no

[wind prairie]

what are these then what are they for

[stoic tinsel]

they are just extensions of the plating around the face, they are not teeth in the same sense as our teeth

[wind prairie]

didn't dunkleosteus also have those and use them for biting though

[stoic tinsel]

yes but they arent teeth

[wind prairie]

oh yeah I mean technically sharks don't have teeth either right?

[stoic tinsel]

no sharks have teeth, placoderm dental plates arent teeth tho

[wind prairie]

how did titanichthys defend itself from dunk

[stoic tinsel]

didnt need to

[wind prairie]

why didn't it

[stoic tinsel]

iirc they didnt live together

[wind prairie]

they did

[stoic tinsel]

pretty sure titanichthys appears slightly after dunkleosteus

[wind prairie]

idk I see lots of modern paleoart depicting them living together
ok yeah they did overlap a bit

[pearl briar]

istg if someone said "Only in Ohio" 🤓🤡

[wind prairie]

I mean they wouldn't be wrong

[stoic tinsel]

given the body plan that titanichthys has it wouldnt be out of the question for it to just outswim dunkleosteus

[pearl briar]

yeah right but ohio joke is cringe now (for me)

also only in montana

[wind prairie]

how did triceratops and torosaurus not compete?

[compact leaf]

probably different diet and habitat preference

isotopes indicate trike was spending a lot of time in more wet areas so toro may have preferred upland environments, or where they overlapped they were just eating different things

[jagged trellis]

they were just chill like that

[dreamy steppe]

If Deinosuchus was round to day?

[jagged trellis]

then there would be a obese gator every now and then, would prevent alot of home owning but would also spark animal right wars over mega mega fauna

[dreamy steppe]

deinosuchus need love

[sacred mason]

It would probably die out relatively quickly because of all the prey items being too small for it and competition from other gators

[neat drum]

or, as is the case of many herbivores, they just didn't need to compete since food was plentiful

[torn sluice]

What was a ceratas bite Force? I've been told they had really strong jaws

[pearl briar]

what?

[storm heron]

What is the difference between "Carnivore" and "Hypercarnivore"?

[slim ridge]

The percentage of meat that makes up their diet.
Hypercarnivores have a diet that consists of more than 70% meat.
Wolves for example, are not hypercarnivores, Cats are.

[pearl briar]

gatitos are???

[slim ridge]

Iirc all felines are hypercarnivores yes

[storm heron]

How are Wolves not hypercarnivores?

[red willow]

Cullen addressing the inclusion of RR in the paper

[heady thunder]

What project?

[chilly knot]

Nah https://youtu.be/cPE11mzU_Hk

[red willow]

The recent lip paper

Robert reisz has been accused of sexual harassment of his students

[storm heron]

Hypercarnivores are apparently carnivores that have a diet of >70% meat, which means they aren't completely carnivorous. So how are Wolves not considered hypercarnivores (Does their diet consists more than 30% plants or vegetables?)?

[heady thunder]

Maybe its 69%

[past comet]

Wolves are much more generalist than most give credit

[slim ridge]

Wolves and Canids in general are eat a larger amount of plant matter than most would assume, wolves will readily take fruits, acorns, seeds etc. Up to about 20/30%, making wolves Carnivores but not Hypercarnivores like Felines, who practically don’t consume any plant matter at all.
Ofc the amount of plant matter consumed will vary per season and per wolf population, but generally that seems to be the norm.
Foxes and domestic dogs are true omnivores.

[bright veldt]

There’s a lot of wolf populations that eat mostly plant matter in the summer months

[slim ridge]

It rlly shows the adaptability of Canids very well, and why they’re so successful and widespread

[storm heron]

I wonder how much plant matter the . . . . "Sea Wolves" I think they are called, eat.

[stoic osprey]

whats the problem?

[slim ridge]

Very little from what I can tell, I see statements saying that around 90% of their diet consists of Seafood of various sources, clams, fish, carcasses, seals, otters etc.
They’re definitely an outlier among grey wolf populations.

[neat drum]

Dinocheirus 🤝tyrannasorus

Being infinitely cooler than a dinosaur

[sudden wind]

Placoderms don't have teeth.

[wind prairie]

you know what I meant ok I know they don't technically have actual teeth

[flat pond]

https://youtu.be/zcTWA-aY5zk meanwhile I wait for dinosaurs in this game to sound something like this.

[wind prairie]

yeah it is sad that most of the dinosaurs' calls in PoT are loudly exhaling

[flat pond]

I mean, some hissing for some things is ok but I want more guttural, somewhat booming sounds. Using modern animals as inspirations is often not a good idea to do since a lot of the time mammals are used and well we all know that dinosaurs and mammals are definitely not related.

[bright veldt]

The tricky thing is birds often aren’t a good analogue either because of how sophisticated and derived their calls are.

The best bets, if I had to give any, are the most basal modern archosaurs, which are crocodiles and ratites.

[flat pond]

Oh I wasn’t suggesting birds to be used but yeah, something like crocodilians and ratites could be used.

[torn sluice]

What was the suchos bite Force as opposed to the spino?

[bright veldt]

I saw a paper which had it at about 400 kg, which is powerful but quite lacking for its size. Ceratosaurus is a 1/4 it’s size and had over 50% more bite strength.

[torn sluice]

Ah okay. But didn't the spino and sucho have serrated teeth?

[bright veldt]

No. They got conical teeth.

[covert lintel]

iirc spinosaurids in general were some of the few carnivorous theropods not to have serrated teeth; since they were specialized for catching and holding onto fish more than tearing into the skin and flesh of other dinosaurs, conical teeth served them better than serrated teeth

[heady thunder]

They had those croco teeth

[slim ridge]

Grabby teeth

[sudden wind]

Ratites may actually be more derived than Neognathes though.

The actual basal condition of bird palate would be the one seen in Neognathes, as seen in Ichthyornithiforms actually. Ratites however would have potentially re-evolved a more Archosaur like palate afterward.

[gritty orchid]

Isn't sarco geting a grab soon in the future? And allo grapple?

[heady thunder]

Yes, but why ask in here?

[gritty orchid]

Because I'm built different

[heady thunder]

Youre a spino, thats a given

[tough parcel]

Oh my god, your PFP, I know that

Can I ask for the original?

[gritty orchid]

Sure

[livid fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/ytzmo-gif-19552651

[wind prairie]

what is the most up to date desmostylus?

[torn sluice]

What's the largest hadrosaur

[jagged trellis]

pretty sure its shant and edmont, might be oloro, but could also be none of the above

[chilly knot]

Shant

[bright veldt]

Oloro isn’t even top 10 lol. Safe option is shant but the largest edmontos rival it

[torn sluice]

How would a herd of shants even fair against predators. Or would they not be attacked?

[bright veldt]

It depends on a lot of things. I wouldn’t discount them being completely immune as adults given the affinity for tyrannosaurs to be social animals. It coexisted with zhuchengtyrannus. Still easier prey around anyhow.

[torn sluice]

Yeah. I'm sure a lot of things would rather attack anything else. I'm guessing larger sauropods like anything larger than the brachi is immune

[jagged trellis]

ah so the oloro one is outdated, noted, but ey atleast i was 2/3 of the way correct

[torn sluice]

Is prehistoric planet a pretty accurate show?

[woeful falcon]

I'd contend its arguably the most accurate one out there. But aspects of it are already outdated, and as with many things as time passes it may get more and more outdated.

[torn sluice]

It's only like 8 months old

[woeful falcon]

yep. but one aspect in particular is outdated because the information regarding it was published when it was a bit too late for the producers of Prehistoric Planet to go back and change anything.

referring to Carnotaurus's skin, of course.

[torn sluice]

Ah. What's up with this news that I've heard that the Cera has like really strong skin/scales

[bright veldt]

Ceratosaurus is the only theropod known to have osteoderms: a single row on its back. They would’ve done little in defense.

[torn sluice]

Ah okay. Wouldn't the best defense on a animal realistically be a ton of loose skin?

[tough isle]

Depends

[jagged trellis]

for being grabbed yeah but having a triple double whopper neck folds doesn't exactly go well for being clean

[tough parcel]

Apparently there's a couple (maybe one?) floating osteoderm not akin to the back ones, so it might've had another row on the torso

[slim ridge]

No, it helps when being grabbed as said before, but it doesn’t prevent being grabbed in the first place like quills do for example, there is no single best defense, tho you could argue size is.

[jagged trellis]

the single best defense is just not spawning in, boom can never die and never worry, best survival strat in the real world

[slim ridge]

Or install creative mode

[jagged trellis]

that might get ya banned on the live stuff though, might pass in Australia though

[ripe ruin]

Idk of anyone said it yet
But I think the 3rd largest is parasaurolophus crytocristatus

[bright veldt]

I have a general list that I gathered up cause I was curious hang on

[jagged trellis]

noted, got the memo oloro being 3rd was just off, but knew para was in top 10 but 3rd, got it

[bright veldt]

1. Shantungosaurus (14m, 15 tons)
2. Edmontosaurus (15m, 14 tons)
3. Parasaurolophus (13m, 12 tons)
4. Angulomasticator (12m, 9.5 tons)
5. Magnapaulia (12m, 9 tons)
   6, 7, 8. Amurosaurus (11m, 7 tons), Charonosaurus (11m, 7 tons), and Gryposaurus (10m, 7 tons)
   9, 10. Barsboldia (11m, 6.5 tons) and Prosaurolophus (10m, 6.5 tons)
6. Saurolophus (10m, 5.5 tons)
7. Tsintaosaurus (10m, 5 tons)

[jagged trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/write-that-down-taking-notes-school-universities-university-gif-17937210

[bright veldt]

Keep in mind that edmonto and shant are about the same, Shant is still the safe option as #1 tho

[ripe ruin]

Hmm don't think I've heard of angulomasticator before

[bright veldt]

It’s fragmentary af I think

[pearl briar]

para is bigger than charono now?

[bright veldt]

Yep

[bitter vault]

What about lambeosaurus or corythosaurus

[scenic flame]

both are quite small

[bitter vault]

And muttaburasaurus ?

[compact leaf]

lambeo and cory are small by hadrosaur standards but both are still decent sized animals

[bitter vault]

I see yeah

[sweet plover]

How many para specimens do we have as of now?

[tough isle]

Isn’t muttaburasaurus an iguanadontid?

[bright veldt]

The average hadrosaur is like 8 meters and 2-3 tons. I wouldn't call it "small".

[compact leaf]

small when compared with things like edmonto, they're definitely not small animals

[rose thorn]

Hypothetical 18-20 ton Shant is still feasible

[rose thorn]

What Corythosaurus skeletal did you use? The only recent one I got doesn’t have a scale bar iirc

[tough parcel]

Edited GSP

[rose thorn]

It’s a rhabdodont (?)..somewhere in elasmaria, but not an iguanodontid

[stoic tinsel]

whats yalls favorite bear

[pearl briar]

arctodus simus

[chilly knot]

Panda.

[torn sluice]

What's the difference between a sucho and a baryonyx

[chilly knot]

Size, morphology, bone density, time, location

[rose thorn]

Sun bear

Goober

[stoic tinsel]

sloth bear

[torn sluice]

Polar bear

[frosty anvil]

Hey Paleo chat, may I have some help in finding some scientifically accurate Tyrannosaurus art? I'm planning on comissioning an artist to draw a scientifically accurate version of my PoT Rex

Any pose is fine, but something like this would be great!

[white matrix]

me ready for hatz lol

[iron halo]

Not the exact same pose but seems close? Pretty sure this is accurate, too
Made by Fred the dinosaurman

[frosty anvil]

Yeah I say that's pretty close!!

[rose thorn]

Just type in mark witton/rj palmer t.rex art

[frosty anvil]

Oh yea!!

Got it

[wind prairie]

where is parasaurolophus walkeri?

[bright veldt]

9 meters and 4 tons

[wind prairie]

OWWW

what drove cyrtocristatus to get so big??

[royal rose]

What species of dinosaur is that?

[wind prairie]

parasaurolophus cyrtocristatus?

[royal rose]

Holy crap!!!

Im guessing that’s one of the biggest hadrosaurs? Or rather on the larger side?

[bright veldt]

Potential adult remains. And yeah P. cyrto makes para the 3rd largest hadrosaur period

[gaunt raven]

Same

[wind prairie]

what's the most accurate desmostylus?

[storm heron]

This is true: osteoderms with "amorphous" shape + a large "quadrangular" osteoderm/plate were found.

[wind prairie]

also, is the haast's eagle hieraaetus or harpagornis?

[storm heron]

Which specimen of Saurolophus is the size estimate in the list based on? If I may ask.

[bright veldt]

Oh snap, I based it off of this (I think the giant saurolophus estimates are lumping barsboldia in with it?) but I did a mistype

[storm heron]

Ah, Well there is that other Giant S.angustirostris specimen that may be larger than the estimates given in your list (MPC 100/764).

[hasty wharf]

What do y’all think about some dinosaurs having lips

I think it makes sense, keeps the teeth moist and safe.

[rose thorn]

Next to no terrestrial animal that isn’t a bird doesn’t have lips

[bright veldt]

^

[past comet]

I’m a big believer in lips except for possibly in spinosaurids, dilophosaurs, as well as potentially masiakasaurus.

Mostly because of the notched dentaries as well as masiakasaurus just having insane teeth

[wind prairie]

accurate carcharodontosaurus?

[tiny holly]

tbf spinosaurus only being partially-lipped at most would still make sense because the teeth overlap in a very crocodile-like manner. Dilo and masiaka though could very easily be covered by lips despite how odd they look

All it takes is looking at the skulls of various mammals and reptiles alive today to see that they can hide some absolutely insane looking skull and jaw shapes behind their lips. The shape of the skull itself often has little bearing on how the lips are shaped, in that they don't follow the shape of the skull (imagine how beavers would look if their lips followed the skull)

[wind prairie]

was the lilstock ichthyosaur a filter feeder?

[tiny holly]

In fact here's a great example of a reptile with somewhat notched dentaries reminiscent of something like dilo and I can tell you now this lad is fully lipped (keel-headed worm lizard to those curious)

[neat drum]

Worm lizards tale the cake for weirdest skulls ever

[dusky prairie]

Did Iggy run bipedal or quadrupedal in real life and why do you think?

[neat drum]

Iguanodon couldn't gallop(as well as p much all other large herbivorous dinosaur, you could even make a case for no dinosaur being able to gallop but thats not why we're here) because galloping requires either a flexible spine or some jank leg adaptations to properly work. Iguanodon(and other ornithopods) have very robust, squat bodies with fairly inflexible spines and weirdly positioned ribs, which keep them from flexing up and down enough to actually gallop(crocodillians, most ungulates, and p much all carnivorans gallop/run in this manner, flexing the spine to put their rear legs further forward, then pushing off)

Rhinos have fairly stiff spines too and dont have much bend, but perissodactyls have some of the weirdest leg anatomy in the animal world, and are able to acheive a gallop via tucking their legs way in and bringing them forward without using their spine, which is again something a dinosaur like iguanodon is incapable of.

Theres also the case to be made of basal conditions and how that affects locomotion. You rarely see animals within a group adapt a wildly different method of locomotion(and when it does occur, its due to some really weird specialization such as becoming aquatic or avian). Stances may change(species like humans became bipedal from quadrupedal ancestors), but generally the method of locomotion does not change as there isn't a massive change in bodyplan. Iguanodon's relatives all have the same bodyplan, and all evolved from small, bipedal ancestors. they became quadrupedal due to their size, but did not exactly change their methods of locomotion. Large ornithopods could either do a shuffle(think elephant run in a way, but not quite as fast), or a bipedal run.

There's also a size thing. Most large herbivorous dinosaurs were simply too big to gallop and not injure their wrists.

Ofc an adult iguanodon likely didn't do very much running, since it could just rear up and stab its attackers without issue.

[bright veldt]

I know a common opinion nowadays is they walked and ran on all fours but went bipedal when foraging, on alert, and various other actions, kinda like a bear does. Stegosaurs were likely similar, if not as mobile.

[storm heron]

Are crocodile spines really flexible ?

[neat drum]

not as flexible as most, but watch videos and you can see them curve their spine a bit when galloping, especially noticable along the pelvic region

im on the side of elephant shuffle iguanodon myself, basically a fast walk, not very fast, but never off balanced

but also, not much that an adult iguanodon really had to run from, so it likely didn't do much running, again sorta like elephants

basically, it could've ran bipedally or quadrupedally, it just couldn't gallop

[dusky prairie]

First I just want to first thank you for for typing that all out for me. Iguanodon is like my favourite dinosaur along side t-rex and I’m very interested about how it moved as I’m going to animation school soon and I want to create a very accurate animation. I was just wondering what your education is? Like you don’t sound like the typical paleo nerd. Are you like a palaeontologist? I always thought personaly iguanodons would run similar to a rhino why can’t they? They both had inflexible spines what’s the next thing stopping it from moving like a rhino? Also how do we know iguanodons spins was inflexible? Like what’s the biological science behind that? Just out of curiosity. Also I am enclosed towards the quadrupedal fast shuffle then a bipedal run aswell.

[pearl briar]

how big is giga again?
is it 12-13 meters long and 8-9 tons?

[heavy prairie]

Quick question, is stygimoloch still considered a juvenile pachycephalosaurus ?

[tiny holly]

yep, there's still some proponents of it being its own thing, and at the very least if it is within the pachycephalosaurus genus it's probably still its own unique species (spinifer as opposed to wyomingensis) but most people tend to agree it is just a growth stage

[heavy prairie]

There's no way we can know for sure though right ? Both sides can be correct I mean

[karmic trout]

We are speculating about an animal that lived millions of years ago and left only sediments of bones behind. Of course we can't know for sure.

[covert lintel]

some things can actually be known for sure, such as nanotyrannus not being real
paleontology does involve a lot of speculation, but it's not pure speculation; the idea that there's nothing at all we can be reasonably certain about is just as unhelpful as the idea that we can be certain about everything

[karmic trout]

I never said its pure speculation. I was only replying in the context of stygimoloch being a juve pachy.

[pearl briar]

what is the most up-to-date triceratops prorsus length and weight?

[ocean drum]

is that the actual pot rex model or did you edit it

[novel sierra]

Up to date dinosaurs are more horror energy filled then JP could ever make indominus rex

[frosty anvil]

Nah not edited

[ocean drum]

thank god I keep agonizing of how skinny the pot rex because when I'm walking with my rex the knees don't seem to go higher than the belly at least that suggests that its still pretty accurate then

[ocean drum]

well no duh I mean are people scared of bears because of how they look or the fact that they know what it can do to a person

[novel sierra]

If it’s bigger then you, is drooling, and is looking at you with both eyes, bear or giga I’m gonna do a dump unintentionally.

[ocean drum]

the point I'm making is that there scarier than the jw because of the fact we know how they could shred us apart plus they actually look like real animals

[ocean drum]

isn't barsboldia supposed to be 13 tons

[scenic flame]

Pot rex isn't too skinny

[novel sierra]

I’m crying at a 2001 estimate of bruthakyaosaurus. 44.1M and 225 tons

[ocean drum]

I meant the pot rex is almost to skinny

[ocean drum]

Bruhathkayosaurus was estimated to be larger than Argentinosaurus some time ago

[bright veldt]

They’re about the same. And no Barsboldia is not 13 tons.

[scenic flame]

It's fine in that department, it's unwise to use the 2 largest most robust specimens of rex as a base line, PoT rexs robustness is fine, it's mostly the head and textures thatt are the issue

[ocean drum]

I said it WAS estimated to be bigger

[novel sierra]

225 tons is heavier than a blue whale by 25 - 35 tons by the way

[ocean drum]

isn't the pot rex based on either Stan or AMNH

to be honest I think rex would've been more similar to the pot rex than prehistoric planet because of agility than again the prehistoric planet rex was based off sue and scotty

[scenic flame]

One of those, but that doesn't make it inaccurate

[ocean drum]

I didn't say they were inaccurate I just stated my opinion based on locomotion data from we know of this animal

[jagged trellis]

indom was pretty good and could most certainly be scarier but feels off folks call realistic dino not scary

[flat pond]

Honestly now looking back at the original 10 dinosaurs and looking at the formations they are from, it would have been easier to implement particular dinosaurs that now have been made redundant by the perk owner dinosaurs. Chasmosaurus could have been a easy Chasmosaurinae to add since it lived with both Daspletosaurus and Styracosaurus instead of Eotriceratops. The stretch goal dinosaurs are fine since they didn’t really harm the roaster that much if at all. Gargoyleosaurus would have been a more interesting thyreophoran to see considering it lived alongside Stegosaurus. A lot of interesting species from the formations the devs chose that they could implement but now I feel will be obsolete due to the species that we have and are coming in the future.

[bronze pendant]

Agreed. JP settled with cheap hollywood monsters instead.

[nocturne cairn]

chasmosaurus is also really small though, so i don't see how it would be a replacement of Eo, it's hardly sty sized

[covert lintel]

if wikipedia's sizes are correct/close (key word: if), chasmosaurus would struggle to be a good replacement for styracosaurus, let alone eotriceratops. it's just a little guy

[jagged trellis]

ah chasmo, perhaps the chaddest frill boi, but on the "smaller" end( still cow sized if not bigger)

[flat pond]

Good point, though tbf, sty and chasmo did live side by side. Perhaps Pentaceratops could be the Chasmosaurinae.

[slim ridge]

When we use terms like mid-sized carnivore for an animal that’s 6/7 meters long, that’s funny to me.

[covert lintel]

yep, chasmo would be a medium-sized herbivore in many of today's ecosystems, but by cretaceous standards it was just a little man

[slim ridge]

Rlly puts things into perspective

[flat pond]

Perhaps have sty be the more bulky brawler and then chasmo be more of the swift charger or some sort of faster ceratopsian.

[jagged trellis]

chasmo is the kid who dodges when a nuclear bomb is dropped

[nocturne cairn]

that's already how sty and alb are

[vast narwhal]

I can still beat all of them in a fight

[neat drum]

Sorry for massively late reply i fell asleep

I am not a paleontologist, i am a mere nerd who studies ecology and behavior as a hobby, and dabbles in the paleo world, in my spare time i sit around p much all day and read scientific papers and articles

[flat pond]

Then Pentaceratops instead of Chasmosaurus perhaps?

[nocturne cairn]

not from dinosaur park so at that point adding it isn't different from having Eo

[dusky prairie]

So what makes you think iggy couldn’t gallop? Like you said it has an inflexible spine but so do rhinos and they gallop. Why couldn’t iggy do the same out of curiosity.

[neat drum]

Rhinos have unique leg adaptations that let them pull their legs up and foreward without needing to bend, like how horses gallop, iguanodon did not have such adaptations

[flat pond]

Neither is Eo. Pentaceratops is at least more interesting than Eotriceratops.

[neat drum]

Ungulates generally make terrible comparisons for dinosaurs since they are so weird anatonically

[dusky prairie]

Oh ok.

What are those adaptations I mean.

[dusky prairie]

Could Iguanodon have used its tail as a weapon? Or is that all made up.

[tough parcel]

All dinosaurs could've used their tails imo, just how effective would it be is the question

[bright veldt]

Hadrosaurs show potential applications of using it as a weapon, although it would’ve been as an extension of their body rather than with any dexterity or purpose like thyreophorans or sauropods. Iguanodon isn’t a hadrosaur so idk how much that applies to it.

[neat drum]

It could prob thwack preds with it like a hadrosaur, but it also could just turn and face its attacker

And again, i doubt much looked at a healthy adult iguanodon and decided to try it

[tough parcel]

I did (I am the apex predator of Iguanodons)

[tulip dove]

We're competing for the same prey? A potential rival I see

[dusky prairie]

Yah honestly I think I could even see an adult t-rex not mess with a full grown Iguanodon irl.

[bright veldt]

T. rex is like 3x the body mass. It’s right within its kill zone.

[hushed valve]

I feel like a rex would most definitely go after a iggy if it had the opportunity

[bright veldt]

Adult iguanodon irl were likely safe from predators though. They dwarfed the largest predators in their environment, let alone the thumb spikes.

[rose thorn]

Even beyond the inflexibility and limb differences, Iguanodon’s still too big to effectively gallop. Adults weigh some 4-5 tons, so it’d be relegated to a more hippo like swagger or elephant paced walk

[bright veldt]

More like 3-3.5 tons. There’s an 11 meter 5 ton individual but that’s one out of hundreds.

[rose thorn]

A large sum of the Iguanodon we have aren’t the oldest iirc in the first place. Difference in ontogeny was kinda part of why there were so many species (outside of literally every iguanodontid getting lumped in once upon a time)

[neat drum]

Iggy solos

[jagged trellis]

god iggy is still massive, forgot about that

[rose thorn]

Rex would definitely have at the very least a brief struggle

[white matrix]

Question: what makes a pterosaur an Azdharchid? And what pterosaurs are classified as an azdharchid other than the obvious ones

[tough parcel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azhdarchidae

[jagged trellis]

idk what makes one a azhdarchid beyond being related enough but stuff like hatz and quetz are part of le group

[dusky prairie]

An injured one maybie. If it was a fight to the death Iguanodon would get bodied by a t-rex easy. But In real life a rex would rather go after young and injured then risk taking deep bloody gouges from a fully grown healthy Iguanodon.

So I was doing some reasurch and elephants can run 40km/h that’s pretty fast and elephants were even bigger then iguanodons so maybe Iguanodon could have run that fast I don’t know.

[dusky prairie]

I don’t know man when I look at the run animation In path of titans and look at the real life bones of Iguanodon. I don’t see why it couldn’t run like a gallop. There isn’t much spine movement from what I can tell and it’s got big long strong legs. Maybe I’m just horribly bias because I love the idea of iguanodons being kind Dino horses.

Like it just looks like it would be able to move like this to me.

[covert lintel]

elephants don't really gallop though, it's more of a speedwalk; again, weight does play a role here, and iguanodon was a Big Lad
(plus PoT doesn't have very realistic running animations, this game's sarco has air time)

also, there's actually a lot of spine movement there, particularly as the hind legs come forward; the spine has to bend pretty significantly to make that happen

[jagged trellis]

oh also moz check backer chat for a...interesting ordeal

[small dagger]

How goes it in paleochat

[woeful falcon]

It's also a video game too, is the thing. Sarco also galloped along in game but it wasn't bouncing around in life

[chilly knot]

Just looking at bones without a clue is not how it works

[west drum]

I miss iggy gallop so much

[small dagger]

whats happening for some reason i dont have the backer role

[covert lintel]

guy sayin' brachiosaurus was faster than tyrannosaurus and citing google

[jagged trellis]

that

[dusky prairie]

Me too I’m obsessed with it. It just looks so beautiful and cool to me that I want it to be able to move similar to that and real life lol.

[hallow shell]

Iggy physically couldn't gallop

[west drum]

iggy gallop reminds me of a dog and I liked that :(

[small dagger]

Too much stress on the bones and muscles

Rex in a full sprint is kinda funny

[hallow shell]

At best maybe a brisk shuffle but galloping is completely out of the question

[jagged trellis]

as a large animal, i can confirm, galloping is too difficult for my spine

[chilly knot]

A 5 tonne animal simply can't bring itself entirely off the ground (except it falls from somewhere down)

[dusky prairie]

I think Iguanodon likely moved similar to an elephant in real life a very fast walk or trot as it would not have needed to do anything else. But I would argue a gallop is more believable and plausible then the bipedal run we have right now

[tough parcel]

Iggy galloping is like the largest elephant we have galloping…or average, I forget which is which

[scenic flame]

gravity
gravity is a harness

[jagged trellis]

i don't like gravity, whenever i look down i get hurt but nothing happens if i keep walking

[dusky prairie]

I guess it’s fantasy right? Like To a certain extent dinosaurs don’t need to be accurate in paleo media. They just need to be cool. Maybe you can have like a scientifically accurate design but can take some creative liberties with how it moves and behaves. Bottom line real dinosaurs just animals . Not blood thirsty super monsters they are just animals. Still it’s fun to imagine out favourite beasts moving and acting in certain more dramatic ways.

[covert lintel]

while they may not look like it, many large ornithopods like iguanodon were facultative bipeds, meaning they could walk on two or four legs depending on the situation. iirc it's thought that bipedal locomotion would be better for bursts of speed, while quadrupedal locomotion is best for stability (and probably would've been the resting state for heavy lads like iguanodon)
the speed PoT's iggy goes at when bipedal is probably unrealistic (iirc a lot of dinosaur speeds are exaggerated for gameplay), but the basic action of Going Fast On Two Legs is something iguanodon's anatomy is better suited to than a proper gallop

[dusky prairie]

I would argue Iguanodon is better suited for running on 4 legs but not as a gallop

[frail robin]

PoT Rex doesn't have the gastralia (the bones that are in the belly of the T.Rex) that is found in fossils. Prehistoric Planet T.Rex is more accurate than PoT Rex. Also it didn't need to be fast, T.Rex ate prey that couldn't run from it

[bright veldt]

Edmontosaurus

[frail robin]

T.Rex would most likely need to ambush prey like Edmonto. It maybe could have run at small bursts of quick speed to catch fast prey

[covert lintel]

tyrannosaurus certainly wasn't the fastest thing alive, but it was decently speedy for something so huge

[torn sluice]

How do we know the deinocheirus was a good swimmer? All sources I've found say it just lived in swamps

[frail robin]

Deinocheirus probably didn't swim, but waded through water like black cape buffalo. Although I like the thought of it sinking to the bottom of rivers and running like a hippo, although that's unlikely

[covert lintel]

we don't know that it was a good swimmer, iirc. personally i'd wager it was pretty bad at it; eating fish and aquatic plants doesn't necessitate being good at getting around in the water, and it was tall enough to wade through water as long as it wasn't super deep

[frail robin]

Yeah, 25 miles per hour is crazy for such a big animal

[torn sluice]

Yeah and it had super long feathers/hair which I'd assume would create terrible amounts of drag

[chilly knot]

I don't think there's direct evidence for that

[frail robin]

Not really. It was probably too heavy to manage to swim

[heady thunder]

How does that compare to a rhino or elephant?

[covert lintel]

we don't have direct evidence of feathers on deinocheirus, so we don't actually know how long its feathers were, assuming it still had them (likely but not guaranteed afaik)

[frail robin]

Yes, judging by the environment Deinocheirus lived in it would have very short feathers, or no feathers at all

[torn sluice]

I mean we think the iggy was a really good swimmer

[covert lintel]

i don't think shaggy feathers are out of the question, especially since the nemegt was on the chillier side if memory serves, but they probably wouldn't be very dense if they were that long

[bright veldt]

I do speculate that regularly wading in bodies of water might’ve given deinocheirids an edge in terms of thermoregulation, which allowed them to get larger without requiring feather loss. That’s just an idea though.

[compact leaf]

being overall more bird like might change how dense the covering could be on large dinosaurs but it's a complicated topic, nemegt could be on the chillier side though (especially at night in the more arid areas)

[jagged trellis]

same speed as a elephant, slower than a rhino, rhinos are like 35 mph if using top speeds for all

[tough parcel]

Today we learn that T. rex is the fastest multi-ton animal in its environment

[heady thunder]

So like, twice as big as an elephant, same speed, scary.

[jagged trellis]

all in the feet baby, anyways thats top speed, id wager a elephant is faster on cruising speeds unless those magic feet work more for rex

[rose thorn]

Adult Iggy actually is a more stable runner on all 4s due to just how robust its arms were (along with a somewhat smaller tail than what a hadrosaur of similar size would have). Juvenile animals didn’t have as dense armature, thus would have been primarily bipedal. That said, bipedal movement would have been faster, as removing the effective kickstands of the front allows for a lengthier stride.

[covert lintel]

tbf i recall it tying with edmontosaurus for that, unless the paper i saw about that is outdated (could be. it happens) or i'm misremembering (also happens. every single day i enter this chat with the desperate hope that i haven't forgotten important dinosaur trivia again)

i saw three people typing at once, i think i forgot important dinosaur trivia again

[torn sluice]

Argent obv the fastest runner due to size

[heady thunder]

Hmmm, idk how 4 legged walking compares to two, but Ive heard the tyrannosaurs were good at long distance jogs and stuff.

[covert lintel]

well hold on now. giraffes don't run faster than cheetahs, size isn't necessarily everything here

[rose thorn]

Edmontosaurus iirc is more stamina based despite being slower, add that with hadrosaur senses just being all around great, and an adult can shuffle away before a Rex gets too close for an ambush

[compact leaf]

that and if the rex does get close enough but the edmontosaurus still notices it there's a decent chance of a big edmonto coming out on top (assuming the rex botches the ambush anyway)

[tough parcel]

The issue is the "stamina" Edmonto was before the "stamina" T. rex so I dunno if that needs to be re-evaluated or not

[chilly knot]

Mapusaurus after getting outrunned by a territorial bull argent
https://tenor.com/view/no-no-no-wait-wait-wait-gif-23893070

[tough parcel]

Not all Edmonts are 14 ton giants tho, average seems to be about 7 tons (or maybe smaller, I forgor)

[jagged trellis]

bro just turn, smh when folks forget you can outturn something fast clearly

[rose thorn]

I feel like it should, alongside an actually decent speed estimate for a bipedal Edmonto

Giant elongated tail, massive caudofemoralis, and forelimb-hind limb thickness discrepancy are in definite favor of Ed generating a pretty significant burst of speed imo

[compact leaf]

it also varies by species afaik, I can't remember which one was actually in hell creek now that I'm trying to go figure

[rose thorn]

Annectens

[compact leaf]

ok that's what I thought but I wanted to be sure (I had to wait a whole minute to say that )

[covert lintel]

can't relate, i've spent a worrying amount of time fixating on hell creek fauna

[bitter vault]

ark iguanodon does the same too :0 thou the first time i saw this about iggy so the both bipedal and quadrupedal thing for run etc so was in WWD also i remember that iguanodon was able to chew ? is it still true or outdated too

it was also said in the wwd episode so thats why im not sure

[torn sluice]

What does iirc and afraik mean?

[ocean drum]

If you've read my previous posts you should've noticed that I stated that pot's rex is more based on AMNH or Stan rather than sue and scotty (they would be a decent margin skinnier) yes pots rex needs a slight remodel as I have previously stated but it would not need to be as chonkey as prehistoric planets rex and when I said agility I meant dodging attack wise otherwise I would've clearly stated speed the rex most likely was an ambush predator so it doesn't get destroyed by a trikes horns not to mention the fact that pot's rex has its kneecaps/legs standing in a more vertical position ( not as bent as saurian or prehistoric planets rex . So next time you criticize read the whole story not just 1 comment or in this case all of the posts about that topic

[rose thorn]

Most all ornithischian dinosaurs possessed the ability to chew (except stegosaurs? Can’t remember off the dome) but the way they did it isn’t like mammals

[bitter vault]

oh ok ! cuz i know the ones who werent able to chew has gastrolits stones in their stomach in order to help them digest so i wasnt sure for the iguanodon but what about ceratopsians ?

[scenic flame]

Wdym pot rex doesn't have gastralia

[torn sluice]

I need le answer

[chilly knot]

"If I remember correctly" and "as far as I know"

The most useful shortforms I've learned

[ocean drum]

it kinda doesn't because it has very soft flesh where its belly is

[scenic flame]

I don't understand, there is no indication you can see on any pot model to suggest the creature lacks gastralia

[rose thorn]

As I said, ornithischians (ornithopods, marginocephalians big word for the family comprising of ceratopsians and Pachycephalosaurs, and ankylosaurs) could all chew

[scenic flame]

I don't think ankylosaurs are in that group

[chilly knot]

Stegosaurs:🥲

[bitter vault]

oooh ok sorry xD but then what about anodontosaurus ? dosent his name mean something like without theet or something like this...

[rose thorn]

Ankylosaurs/nodosaurs can chew

[ocean drum]

they're probably in a group of like 9 or so

[scenic flame]

Oh, it looked like you were saying they were maginocephalians

[torn sluice]

What would yall say are the most perfectly evolved animals. I know this is subjective but I wanna hear opinions

[chilly knot]

I am

[rose thorn]

Anodontosaurus is an ankylosaur, ankylosaurs chew

[bitter vault]

Anodontosaurus : The generic name means "toothless lizard" in Ancient Greek. But if im right its because the theet of the fossils were like absent or destroyed ???

[rose thorn]

“Toothless lizard” is misleading yea. It’s simply because of damage done to the specimen over time that it was found without them

[bitter vault]

oh ok ! makes more sense tbh

[torn sluice]

Were there any duck like creatures larger than the deincheirus?

[rose thorn]

Smh that’s why they went extinct idiots couldn’t keep up with the times

[heady thunder]

Not really, unless you call hadrosaurs duck billed, then theres some hadros bigger

[chilly knot]

So bad + skill issue

[bright veldt]

Gastralia isn’t something you’d visibly see on the outside of the animal. We don’t have rugged chests because we have ribs

[rose thorn]

Hadrosaurs and ankylosaurs: We revoke your rights to feeding at any feasible level

Kinda sad to think about tbh. Driven to extinction just cause you can’t eat hard things

[bitter vault]

how accurate is this pentaceratops ? I migh get it one day but im curious

[bright veldt]

It’s legs are weird

[bitter vault]

too long ?

[rose thorn]

Bad feet, bad face, n tail too chunky

[bitter vault]

my styraco figure has the same kind of tail problem so i see !

[torn sluice]

I just realized how inaccurate the pot deinocheirus model is

[bitter vault]

the styraco in question xD

[tough parcel]

Wdym, it's decent enough?

[torn sluice]

The deinocheirus sits way lower in posture than in game

[tough parcel]

No?

[rose thorn]

Penta is honestly quite a weird ceratopsid. Quite leggy, elongated face, oddly flat sacrum, slight hump, and relatively large nasal horn

[bright veldt]

Some PoT models got problems but Deinocheirus ain’t one of them. It’s fine.

[jagged trellis]

ive heard it be called the elk of ceratopsids seeing its more tall and thin yet large frame, i can see it

[bitter vault]

oooh true but for this figure i just like how it looks thats why i want it and because i wanna start a collection of ceratopsians figures...i know thou beast of mesozoics made high quality ones too

[torn sluice]

Idk every depiction I've seen they sit lower in posture. Kinda like the new spino model

[heady thunder]

The guy looks like its eternaly suffering.

[bright veldt]

The colors make me not really a fan of the ceratopsid series compared to their raptors and tyrannosaurs, but they still got the best and most accurate figures around

[tough parcel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/897995109495353394/1049034128214991039/Deinoch.png

[rose thorn]

The posture on that skeletal isn’t the greatest. Fadeno’s Titano is far better

[bitter vault]

the figure from beast of mesozoic i want its the custom styracosaurus so the 'old buck' if you was the series on youtube

[heady thunder]

Now were talking, this guy actually looks healthy.

[rose thorn]

I’ve heard it be called a moose, n honestly pretty apt comparison

[bitter vault]

looks like the speed subspecies of the duck xD

[heady thunder]

Thats obviously defense, bald head

[jagged trellis]

i can see that as well save the more bulky nature of a moose, but yesh

[bitter vault]

its defense one just bald but still has the tail feathers ?

[torn sluice]

Yeh

[heady thunder]

Speed has the head feathers but no tail feathers, bal is the fluffiest.

[hardy ravine]

you mean pachycephalosaurus

[bitter vault]

ok last figure this time ! how accurate is my boi right here ? he is the first one i got before the styraco , its diabloceratops

[torn sluice]

Playable belzebufo when

[hardy ravine]

who plays jurassic world here?

[heady thunder]

Diably right? Probably needs to be chunkier, shorter tail, head might need some changes.

@hardy ravine Thats not bald, its boneheaded.

[bitter vault]

more like the isle dibble i guess ?

[heady thunder]

Probably.

[torn sluice]

What's the biggest prehistoric frog

[bitter vault]

i mean on this figure i feel like hes too high up like this legs are too long xD ?

[bright veldt]

An undescribed species from the Eocene of South America

[heady thunder]

That too probs.

[torn sluice]

Holy. He gonna eat my whole leg

[bitter vault]

its a cat next to the frog O_o ?

[rose thorn]

Too tall, too skinny, tail too long, eye too big, beak keratin too short

[torn sluice]

Yall picking it apart damn XD

[bitter vault]

now maybe its just the picture but the actual one i have in my hands the eyes are a bit smaller at least

[heady thunder]

He probably would taste awesome, that much cooked frog legs would be nice.

[bitter vault]

i live in france so frog legs is a known dish but i hate the texture xD thou a big leg like this ? i wonder how it would be....

[heady thunder]

The same probably, just more frog.

[bitter vault]

guess so :0 anyway thats all ima say for today , night or day yall

[torn sluice]

I've never had Frog legs

[heady thunder]

Theyre nice, the problem I have with them is that theyre too small most cases, but a big frog like that would be nice.

[deft sigil]

A reminder to please view pinned messages for appropriate paleo-chat topics. We recommend all off-topic conversations for paleo-chat be directed to DM's, the appropriate channel or another server entirely. This channel is for educational purposes.

[torn sluice]

Anyway. What dinosaur age mammals were there?

[wind prairie]

that's a very vague question. Mammals were everywhere post-triassic

[heady thunder]

There were a lot, not big, more like cat size and smaller.

[torn sluice]

Ah I meant like larger

[wind prairie]

oh, larger ones would be like, repenomamus and didelphodon

[torn sluice]

Ah le badger

[torn sluice]

What were the birds with the Y shaped crests in prehistoric planet?

[tough parcel]

Barbaridactylus

[slim ridge]

I personally don’t think there is a correct answer as you could argue a all animals are perfectly evolved for where they’re supposed to be.
A koala is perfectly evolved to survive in Australia and feed on Eucalyptus etc etc.

[jagged trellis]

Crabs

[wind prairie]

koalas definitely aren't perfect

[torn sluice]

Honestly. Maybe. Other than the fact that they get merked by burds

[jagged trellis]

no such thing as perfect but man crabs went hard on it, the only major downside is the armor they got is normally mid

[elfin pulsar]

Platypus(they are silly)

[wind prairie]

what did cronopio dentiacutus eat?

[slim ridge]

It’s perfect for what it’s niche and environment, which is what it’s supposed to do.

[jagged trellis]

but they lack the power to adapt to major changes, rn kinda needing humans help from....humans

[slim ridge]

Which can rlly be said for most if not all animals.

[jagged trellis]

eh not all, look at crabs as said before, some species are majorly specialized but alot are so generalistic they can go almost anywhere and do well

[slim ridge]

Not being able to survive drastic changes or a mass extinction doesn’t mean animals aren’t perfectly evolved for their niche.
Many crab species have come and gone.

[elfin pulsar]

Well, that is admittedly true, even if a niche is super specific koalas are great at that niche

[jagged trellis]

they hadn't said their own niche, they said in general, niches come and go as well, but a fair bit of stuff has remained a constant able to survive major world changes and events, which would be a good indicator of being closer to perfection vs something that starves to death if the leaves aren't on a branch

[elfin pulsar]

Oh in general? Then yeah def not koalas those things are abysmal when it comes to general

They don’t even recognize food if it isn’t on a tree

[slim ridge]

They do but they wont eat it because leaves that aren’t on a branch carry the risk of being old/rotten/low quality

[jagged trellis]

yeah if it was niches then stuff like yeti crabs, flamingos and yes koalas would count, but in no way are they are going to survive in another habitat or major change

[torn sluice]

Honestly my answer is cockroaches

[elfin pulsar]

Yeah, in terms of general stuff koalas have to be some of the worst animals lmao

They can do 1 thing and 1 thing only, opposite of general

[heady thunder]

They actually have a reason instead of just being dumb by default, thats honestly suprising.

[elfin pulsar]

Honestly, pretty great answer

[slim ridge]

German Cockroaches are for the most part entirely reliant on humans to survive in the regions they’re common now.
They wouldn’t exist in much of the world if not for heating and human leftovers.

[jagged trellis]

def a decent contender, the only downside is humans helped alot more

[torn sluice]

Yeah. Cockroaches or dung beetles are my answers

[elfin pulsar]

Ants are p good

[slim ridge]

I feel like if you’re gonna pick any animal, it would be humans, humans have taken their niche, perfected it, and gone so far beyond what they evolved to be.

[jagged trellis]

anyways Crabs are my name choice, Ants are a decent one, oh and song birbs to a extent seeing the spread of em( though it is through more families)

wouldn't say humans entirely namely since the rng and costs of us( almost everyone in the world having permanent health problems of some form go brrrrrr)

[torn sluice]

We are only better than everything due to our intelligence. Without our intelligence we would be clapped

[heady thunder]

Skill issue on their part.

[slim ridge]

But we evolved said intelligence, and while crabs are still doing crab things, humans have gone far beyond what humans used to do

[jagged trellis]

says the human brain, if i'm being honest we did get a good roll on rng and range atleast but man general health and enjoyment of life is concerning even with our power, then again crabs

[torn sluice]

If their still doing the same thing their doing something right

[jagged trellis]

( also note don't take this as some weird ordeal, seeing how successful humans are, wouldn't say we are the top but we are somewhere above the death zone atleast)

[heady thunder]

We techically are doing the same things, we just got more filler.

[slim ridge]

I’m not saying they’re not, but if people are gonna say what has been the most perfectly evolved animal, I’d argue for the animal that went beyond the niches they evolved for

But again I don’t think there is a thing as a “truly” perfectly evolved animal at all, and that all animals are perfectly evolved for their specific niche.

[jagged trellis]

would prolly have ants then seeing they kinda shifted their own futures varying on species, but nothing is perfect anyways, whether it be ant circles of death or Human health, Crabs mid armor or koalas doing anything

[torn sluice]

Why tf do sea turtles reproduce the way they do. Their babies have to go through the Normandy landing when they hatch

[slim ridge]

Because it works better than caring for a select few apparently

[heady thunder]

Weeds out the weak quickly.

[jagged trellis]

because

[jagged trellis]

or the unlucky, since survival is a game of fitness, brains and sheer chance

[stiff osprey]

''humans are the most perfectly evolved organism because we lead to the extinction of the most other species''
''crabs are the most perfectly evolved organism because all sort of animals want to become crab''
limulus:

[jagged trellis]

oh yeah those guys, they exist, they do a good job at it, holding a record at this point

[stiff osprey]

Triops is another contender since horseshoe crabs are a whole family, but triops split from its sister genus back in the Jurassic

[heady thunder]

Skill issue ofc

[jagged trellis]

aren't those the funny guys in certain farms that eat the bugs and growing plants to help? or am i thinking of something else

[torn sluice]

They legit just exist tho lol

[jagged trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/honest-word-its-honest-work-it-aint-much-it-aint-much-but-its-honest-work-gif-13763573

[hasty wharf]

The goat 💯

[torn sluice]

Maybe they are the most perfectly evolved cause most of our illnesses are cured through their blood

[heady thunder]

Super serum

[jagged trellis]

murdering short old men to use their blood to heal us(real)

[torn sluice]

Yeah. Their blood is a like neon blue too. It's brighter than most

Also why do crabs eject all their limbs if attacked. All they become then is a floating pebble

[jagged trellis]

because

[wind prairie]

what is the largest desmostylian?

[dusky prairie]

But calling iggy’s front legs kickstands is weird to me. They were fully developed weight baring limbs.

[gaunt raven]

The new spino model?

[dusky prairie]

So basically real Iguanodons did not have the proper anatomy or adaptations to be able to gallop specifically they did not have the flexible spine needed for it. Although they definitely would have been able to do a very fast trot or shuffle similar to an elephant or hippo which can run very fast actually.

picking its front limbs up and running bipedal would produce a faster speed at least based on computer modelling and the idea that it’s legs could have more room for longer strides. The question is did the hind limbs have enough muscle to support the 5 ton beast while it ran.

So basically adult iguanodons either did a very fast quadrupedal walk or or a short speedy burst bipedal run.

It’s too bad as I absolutely love the idea of iguanodons being big horse Dino’s.

[heady thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-reality-is-often-disappointing-stone-infinity-stone-gamora-gif-14046382

[torn sluice]

Yeah the most recent edition of the spino is very low set to the ground

[gaunt raven]

Oh yeah it is I thought you meant for PoT 😂

[wind prairie]

how aquatic was baryonyx?

[cinder jewel]

like a heron or egret most likely. not acting like a crocodile, just perusing the edge of the water and associated uplands for whatever could be caught

[rose thorn]

Yes, the hind limbs are strong/large enough for it rear up and “run”

[neat drum]

in any case, run is a bit of a stretch with dinosaurs, they weren't going zoom

[tough parcel]

Ornithomimids…juvenile tyrannosaurs…small ornithopods…

[honest wave]

Does anyone have a complete list of described fauna and flora of Mazon Creek's freshwater environments? I'm trying to find one but literally the only information I'm getting is "yeah they found a really old beetle and some other neat nondescript bugs". I feel like I'm going to enter my joker arc.

[neat drum]

shut, those dont count they're stinky

i meant large dinosaurs

[honest wave]

||abelisaurs||

[neat drum]

you know what i mean

the heckin chonkers aint sprinting at 40+ mph they're fastwalking at like, 20mph

[honest wave]

Anyways I am once again asking for your exhaustive list of Mazon Creek freshwater biota, I am in physical pain from how bad the information on Carboniferous environments is.

[torn sluice]

I invision the spino hunting like a brown bear does trout

[neat drum]

anyways i may do some fossil hunting this weekend 👀

i found an exposed bit of the shell rock that forms the fossil formation of my area, great place to find fish jaws, shark teeth, etc. as well as all sorts of fossil shells and worm traces

last one i found and chipped through i got a cow shark tooth out of

[honest wave]

hell yeah dude

[neat drum]

its just gonna be destroyed to build a house on top of so i may as well scavenge before then

[torn sluice]

I found a megaladon tooth in a river when I went down to florida

[honest wave]

man that sucks

[neat drum]

ye im like an hour south of the peace river which has a very rich array of fossils, last time i was there i got some bone fragments and a chunk of dugong rib

[torn sluice]

Peace river Florida? That's where I found my megaladon tooth

[woeful falcon]

I read megalodon as "megamouth"

[neat drum]

ye, that peace river, apparently theres also shark teeth in the caloosahatchee but i've never bothered to try, a friend of mine found a meg chip there though

[torn sluice]

I also found a segment of some sort of a fossilized fish's jaw

[neat drum]

my issue is going into the peace river without a spotter is pain and the good spots are often well away from where tourists can reach, so usually means kayaking a mile or two, which for me would be alone, then wading around waist-to-chest deep water with the freaky river alligators

[torn sluice]

I didn't use a kayak I was there last week and I just walked along the bank for like a mile. Didn't know there were alligators in there. I'm also pretty sure I may have found a hip bone of some kind of animal cause it was super smooth and rock like. It looked like it had a ball joint so idk

[neat drum]

oh the peace river has some biggggg alligators, but they're very shy compared to the swamp dwellers since they dont get to gorge on fish freely, they hunt more land based prey

[torn sluice]

Ah well good to know XD. I'm from Ohio so honestly my tourist brain kicked in. Oh there's nothing dangerous here. Damn well coulda been a shnak

[woeful falcon]

Florida + water = alligators

[neat drum]

they like to snatch deer that come down the steep edges to drink since they cant escape easily

def not my favorite place to encounter a gator in

[torn sluice]

Well besides all that. I found a megaladon toof. Unidentified hip bone, and a gator toof

[neat drum]

but the fossils are great, most of what you'll find are unidentifiable bits and pieces ofc, like my lil bone chips

I also have a like 3lbs bag of various shark teeth

[torn sluice]

I'm like 100% positive what I found was a hip bone and it was rather large. Just idk how to identify a god damn hip bone XD. It was also fossilized too

[rose thorn]

Giraffatitan keeping pace with an elephant:

[torn sluice]

So if I may ask. Did pachys likely ram each other like Rams do?

[little mauve]

If you can take some good pics from multiple angles & items for scale you could probably email a paleontologist and get an ID, or better yet bring it to a museum or university & ID it in person 👍

[torn sluice]

Yeh. It was about the size of my hand and I'm rather tall I'm 6'3"

[little mauve]

They should at least be able to determine if it's mammalian or reptilian etc based on the bone structure, even if it's too fragmentary to ID beyond that

[neat drum]

its likely mammalian, the only reptile would be an alligator

[little mauve]

What kind of stuff do people find there?

[torn sluice]

Actually now that I think of it it resembles more of a scapula

I wish there was like a good chart for the way different bones look in different animals

So I don't have it on me right now but I decided to draw its shape real quick. It's horrible I know. But the circle in the center represents like where the bump/possible ball joint was. I was kinda worried it was a human ball joint at first but idk lol. It was really worn down

[tough parcel]

You found a Sasquatch remain son, how’s it feel?

[torn sluice]

Idk lol. It was broken off at the top and bottom left

Idk I was trying to see if anyone had any tips cause I know there's peeps here who can identify a dino by its goddamn pinky toe lol

[neat drum]

its likely a deer in all honesty, thats a p common broski

[tough parcel]

Well we’d need a photo, not a drawing…as excellent as it might be

[neat drum]

but theres all kinds of fossil species present so it could be anything really

you are unlikely to find a primate fossil of any kind though so dw about that

[little mauve]

Miocene Florida Man

[torn sluice]

Nah XD. Its definitely deer looked to the T like that bone

[little mauve]

Nice! Good sleuthing @neat drum

[torn sluice]

As someone who hunts I should definitely knew that lol but oh well. However it was definitely fossilized, or in the process.

[neat drum]

yeah p much everything in the peace river is a fossil unless you see it bleached on the shore

example: i have a softshell turtle skull from the peace river, def a fresh broski, not a fossil

[little mauve]

Well now you've hunted a very old one

[torn sluice]

Without evidence I'm just gonna say it was a megalaceros lol

[torn sluice]

There were no holes as if it was porus it was completely solid like a rock

[neat drum]

we had a lotta stuff here, from basilosaurus to columbian mammoths to jaguars

[torn sluice]

Hmmmmm. One guy we met at the river said he found a whole manatee mandible

[little mauve]

Damn that sounds like an awesome site

[neat drum]

(just an fyi for the future, its illegal to collect vertebrate fossils from places like the peace river without a permit, its a cheap and easy permit to get tho and i support getting it)

[torn sluice]

Well didn't know that. None of my family did lol.

[neat drum]

its $5 a year, and the only requirement is that you report your findings to the florida paleontological society, if your finds are deemed scientifically valuble they have the right to take said fossils from you for science purposes, but since 99% of whats found is not scienficially important, odds are you get to keep what you find

[torn sluice]

Yeah. The guy that took the manatee mandible definitely didn't have a permit lol. Cause he mentioned it to us after. He sells the stuff he finds illegally too

[neat drum]

yucky person

[torn sluice]

He was one of those the government shouldn't have what I found people and he claimed all fossils there had high monetary value

[neat drum]

but yeah most fossils found are either undiagnostic or just too fragmentary to matter

also lol, most of the fossils are worth very little

[torn sluice]

He offered to sell us a Meg tooth for $150 that he found there. It's one of the few whole ones he found. He uses an airboat and everything

[neat drum]

you can buy a dugong rib for like, $10 tops

meg teeth are different but they're also p easy to find tbh

a friend of mine had a felid limb bone taken by the state since it was a fantastically preserved specimen, i forget what species it was though

[torn sluice]

I found an ammenonite fossil broke in half. Thought about keeping it but didn't know if it was legal too

[neat drum]

invertebrate fossils, petrified wood, and shark teeth are legal to take

[torn sluice]

Ah. That's why I don't have a picture of the hip bone I found cause I left it lay

[neat drum]

good choice, removing the fossils entirely is not a great thing tbh

they do have a purpose in the ecosystem

[torn sluice]

Really?

[neat drum]

yeah, they break down and become part of the sediment, provide nutrients to the water that the ecosystem requires, and reduce erosion by merely existing

[torn sluice]

Oh yeh. I went to the beaches on the east coast of Florida. They legit were made out of sea shells

[barren compass]

was halzkaraptor actaully semi aquatic or is that just an ourdated theory

[flat pond]

Looks at Nasutoceratops figure I still love you

[compact leaf]

I'm not sure about halzkaraptor but natovenator which is pretty close seems to have been, halz lived in a relatively arid environment which makes it a bit odd but it has the adaptations for being aquatic

[little mauve]

It's an online misconception that halszkaraptor was limited to an arid environment, both it & natovenator had access to a mix of dry & humid habitats. It was a diverse region. They were both likely semi aquatic

[neat drum]

you can also have semiaquatic adaptations and not stay in wet environments

[little mauve]

Very true

At any rate the type locality for Halszkaraptor has clay & siltstone facies within the sand dune system. The whole region was like the Okavango, seasonal wetness & dryness, a lot of variation. Semi-aquatic adaptations would be incredibly useful, to the point there appears to be a whole group of animals experimenting with this body plan in the area

[compact leaf]

even in the more arid localities they probably wouldn't have a ton of trouble as long as they kept up with the rains

[neat drum]

it likely lived like a weird flightless stork or egret, during the dry period it scavenges or hunts tiny prey/insects, during the wet periods targetting fish and amphibians

[little mauve]

It definitely seems capable of swan-like propulsion in the water, surface paddling-not talking penguin or anything, but comfortably taking to one of these seasonal lakes when it could

I expect in the consistently wetter "Nemegt" lithobiotope there may have been an even higher diversity of halszkaraptorines but the preservational bias is strongly in favor of large animals vs baruungoyot or djadohkta

[compact leaf]

are nemegt and djadohkta separated by locality or temporally or is it both?

I always just kind of lump them in my head for some reason so I can never remember the degree of separation between them lol

[neat drum]

man all the little broskis lost to time

[compact leaf]

I'm more sad about the massive areas that we just know nothing about from the mesozoic, eastern NA is mostly a gray area (especially in the north), a good chunk of africa and SA we'll probably never know about because of the rainforests, antarctica (for obvious reasons), and there's some parts of europe that we don't have stuff from the late cretaceous

there's so many lineages that may have holdovers there or that we just don't know about yet

[neat drum]

these ecosystems likely were incredibly diverse, hundreds of small to medium dinosaur species filling all kinds of niches

[little mauve]

Both are parts of the same large chunk of time. The difference is mainly in what the predominant deposition type is to each one

[compact leaf]

oh ok that makes sense, thanks

[little mauve]

https://cdnsciencepub.com/doi/10.1139/cjes-2020-0148 good paper laying it all out

[compact leaf]

I don't think it's that out of the question (definitely not just because they're my favorite family) that there may be some late cretaceous brachiosaurids knocking around in some of those grey areas

I mean they were booming in the early cretaceous and were pretty well suited to staying out of competition with other sauropods, we may never know but I just think it's an interesting idea

[little mauve]

Macronarians basically took over 3/4s of the planet by then, I could definitely see a relict population of some old grade brachiosaurs hanging around somewhere. It is a shame the things we'll never know but then again, you never know what they'll find. I think that's one of the best things about this interest, there truly is always something fascinating just over the horizon

The early & middle Cretaceous record in general isn't that great iirc, I think it's still not completely settled when brachiosaurids died out

[compact leaf]

yeah the early cretaceous has a pretty good record but there's a huge gap in the middle cretaceous so it's not entirely clear what happened in that time frame, some areas just have a complete gap for the whole mesozoic going forward from there so it's possible a lot of weird stuff survived past what we think

[little mauve]

Certainly, probably many lineages. Jakapil was a mindblower on that one, I think there will definitely be a lot of cool discoveries to come filling in that gap

[torn sluice]

What could a pachy Full charge do if it hit the side of a rex

[pearl briar]

can deinosuchus became C H O N K like this pic?

[heady thunder]

Yes, but is that healthy?

[azure crystal]

Well they dont chase down the pray they surprise attack it so it wont effect much really maybe slow them down a bit

[honest wave]

obesity causes more issues than being too slow to catch prey

[covert lintel]

bruise its ankles or perhaps knees

[azure crystal]

Thats as much as i know

[heady thunder]

Annoy it.

[torn sluice]

From what I've read pachys had such strong legs they would probably shatter its whole ribcage. On that side

[covert lintel]

pachycephalosaurus couldn't reach rex's ribcage. it's a little guy

[torn sluice]

I meant like maybe if it was laying down

[heady thunder]

Rex just swipes its head or tail and throws the poor guy 10 m away, I doubt a broken rib makes it worth it.

[azure crystal]

Well a rex will hear it coming anyway

[torn sluice]

Idk I've watched a lot of videos about pachys and all of them pretty much say their leg strength and speed was so strong that if they headbutted something they had a chance of demolishing its bones or jaw

[azure crystal]

Thats for sure

[hushed valve]

even if it was laying down I doubt that it would do that much damage

[pearl briar]

it's Yutyrannus
she's beautiful
my question: how accurate is length and weight?

[heady thunder]

What is Yuty related to, megalosaurs, tyranosaurs?

[azure crystal]

Tyranosaurs

[heady thunder]

Neat, must be basal since it has 3 fingers

[sudden wind]

Depends of who you ask.

Yuty is between like 7.1 meters and 8.3 meters for high 900kg or 1.3 tons.

[covert lintel]

yutyrannus is a proceratosaurid rather than a tyrannosaurid, but since both of those groups are tyrannosauroids, it's still much more closely related to tyrannosaurids than it is to megalosaurids or allosauroids

[pearl briar]

can i use both 900kg-1.3 tons?