paleontology

[zealous summit]

I do want to emphasize that personal preference doesn't effect how ancestral traits appear throughout a lineage

[small dagger]

The devs really need to backtrack on some of their recent releases

[zealous summit]

feathering, in one way or another, is an ancestral trait in all dinosaurs and pterosaurs, so it's likely that they appear frequently throughout Dinosauria, even if it consists of sparse fuzz like on Digital Duck's Tyrannosaurus

[charred gulch]

Like its a personal preference for fuzz despite there being no evidence? Is this some sorta Gate Keeping for a Dinos appearance? Lol!

[woeful falcon]

You're really beating the dead horse with that one

[small dagger]

I just want accurate models and calls… is that too much to ask for

[charred gulch]

Thats why we have modders always can Commission them.

[woeful falcon]

Maybe no direct evidence, but feathers are an ancestral trait therefore its highly possible Tyrannosaurus had feathers in very sparce amounts that, if were there, just haven't been preserved. Often compared to elephant hairs.

[small dagger]

If the basegame says they will give us accuracy we shouldn’t need mods to get accurate Dino’s

[woeful falcon]

That's why you don't see full blown plumed rexes anymore, but you will see some with a lil fuzz

Yutyrannus also broke the mold a bit for large feathered animals.

[small dagger]

Jiggy promised us accuracy in models and calls and after amarga has not delivered, understandably the community would like accurate basegame Dino’s since she promised it and not have to use mods to get a Dino that looks good

[charred gulch]

You are beating a dead horse on that since most devs arent into "realism" like Saurian is.

@woeful falcon Im a firm believer of evidence and where theories are nice but right now all scientific evidence doesnt really support it no offense ofcourse if you guys like Fuzz? Cool not alot of us agrees and thats apart of science its always changing for a reason and why we get new revisions,theories, and etc.

Skull react lol idc

[small dagger]

Jiggy said the models would be accurate to time of release.. so yeah they promised accuracy

[charred gulch]

Its still in beta lol this isnt a full release game yet.

[small dagger]

The promised accuracy ON RELEASE of the Dino, not on full release of the game

[charred gulch]

Where was this stated??

[frigid coral]

[small dagger]

Jiggy told us in interviews

[woeful falcon]

I mean jesus paleo, rex isn't even the worst culprit of inaccuracy, far from. Kai probably is.

[zealous summit]

Yeah Kai is atrocious
to compare, I found artwork someone did comparing a more accurate kai with the PoT one

[frigid coral]

kai has super good textures but it was such a missed opportunity

[small dagger]

I agree. Kai with lips is by far the worst inaccuracy in the game. It not Kai it’s a monster XD

[charred gulch]

You got any clippings or screenshots?

[zealous summit]

that's the funny part, kai is like, the only creature in PoT that shouldn't have visible scales, because plesiosaur scales were extremely small

[small dagger]

Look how cute real kai is, I guaranty that more accurate and good to look at models will make more players play those Dino’s

[frigid coral]

from the alderon games site btw

[woeful falcon]

But also yes no direct evidence of rex having feathers on the fossil but phylogenetics supports that it may.

Tyrannosaurus skin impressions are few and far between and they are so so so so small

[hallow shell]

KTO Rex

[small dagger]

What is that supposed to mean

[charred gulch]

TY lol

[frigid coral]

paleo accuracy is taken into account, basically

[hallow shell]

Rex most likely had sparse feather coating like elephant hairs

[small dagger]

So they try to be paleo-accurate while still putting their own spin on it

[heady thunder]

That means that accuracy is taken into account, but its not the be all end all.

[charred gulch]

Which is by all means also valid lol

[frigid coral]

what the rest of the message says is that they won’t edit the models everytime there’s a new discovery

[small dagger]

Would they edit the models if on release they were inaccurate and ugly?

[charred gulch]

Which is why I am waiting for more evidence lol

Until then my man Im on team Scales. 💪🏻

[zealous summit]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[heady thunder]

If they want.

[frigid coral]

also, the literal first 7 words of their funding page

[zealous summit]

With what is suggested on rex, it's both
"teamscales with a little sprinkle of teamfeathers"

[small dagger]

@charred gulch

[woeful falcon]

I'm gonna boggle your minds but the rex model isn't as inaccurate as some of y'all seem to be deluded into thinking, its just clearly old.

[small dagger]

It’s not too inaccurate my main issue with it is that it’s just really ugly

[woeful falcon]

Aight well that has no concerns for paleo chat

[frigid coral]

rex will be updated eventually as most Dino’s are getting remodeled, but it’s not inexcusable

[charred gulch]

They do say Aim but Jiggy recently did say not all will be remodeled so we gotta see in the future overall? This is the best dino game.

[small dagger]

With the additional lack of keratin it’s not looking good, plus we know they had keratin so that is inaccurate

Poor Kai is in a much worse boat, the thing isn’t even what it’s name says, it’s just a plesiosaur with lips

[woeful falcon]

As far as inaccuracies go of new stuff, the things that bug me are thalassodromeus's size and kai

[charred gulch]

Most if not all the dinos seem to be either Upsized by a LARGE Margin or just sized up for balance reasons.

[small dagger]

At the rate they are pumping out remodels it couldn’t be too long, probably less than a year

[hallow shell]

Kai is honestly just....why

[small dagger]

Yes I’m aware of that message but I think they will get to the necessary remodels
(Kai, bars, sty, lamb, Rex’s head, ect)

[woeful falcon]

Light mode sick_emoji

You wanna complain about a Tyrannosaurus inaccuracy, bataar looking like an Albertosaurine rather than Tarbosaurus is one I don't like. If its to be named bataar

[cold sphinx]

https://tenor.com/view/reaction-my-eyes-cant-unsee-burn-gif-7225082 anyways kai and whats its name were the ones being really off

[small dagger]

Kai bars and lamb have the worst models imo, those really need help asap

[charred gulch]

🗿 Yall talking about that but we need a JP3 Spino design asap.

[small dagger]

Idk why they did that tbh, having 2 lipless subs and also having no lips until sub for the one with lips is very inconsistent, every other Dino has lips except 1 subspecies for most.

Kai could have been so cute, even a herbivorous aquatic, sifting for algae

[frigid coral]

would also be something no game has done before, such a missed opportunity

[small dagger]

You would have to find algae patches and then sift through them, kinda like bushes in land

[cold sphinx]

having kai be able to scrape along the ocean floor for algae or rays every now and then would've been lovely

[small dagger]

Yeah, would be cool for some Dino to get increased night vision ability, laten or maybe even Rex with its big ass eyes
Nice accuracy ability’s are great

[wind prairie]

aristonectines like kaiwhekea are so unique, being filter feeding plesiosaurs, turning them into generic piscivores is a very bad missed opportunity

[small dagger]

Would have been awesome to eat gastroliths

[sudden wind]

Here also is an artwork by Tosha Hollman of Kaiwhekea.

[neat drum]

Rex needs a texture update and its ok

The issue for me is that rex is just "ok", it lacks character or personality, nothing that makes it unique, may as well be a jurassic park ripoff rex

For example, dasp is mostly accurate, but dasp has some character to it, just the way it looks feels more convincing than rex

But yes, accuracy wise rex is fine, save those lipless subs which are massive oofs

[heady thunder]

Some teeth are fine, its fun to have some variety.

[sudden wind]

Funnily enough, the more I think about it and the more I despite PoT's aquatic roster ngl.

First off we have Leedsichthys, a giant filter feeding Pachychormid from the Jurassic Europe. This animal wouldn't really be fast and likely lived similarly to how giant filter feeding fish live and not like whales (whales are capable of lunge feeding and fast movements).

Then we have Kaiwhekea, another filter feeders but this time it is more likely for it to go for the benthos (so the sea sediments) as well as soft bodied preys like squids and possibly shrimps.

Following this, we have Eurhinosaurus and oh God not this animal. Most people think that Eurhinosaurus was analogous to swordfish and marlins, but it absolutely is not. The rostrum is far too weak, not laterally compressed, the teeth are pointing downward instead of sideways and its body plan doesn't reflect the one of fast pelagic Ichthyosaurs. So, this time, we don't have really much clue of what Eurhinosaurus was doing. It possibly could also have been a benthic feeder looking through the sediments with its elongated upper jaw to look for preys in the sand.

Though we have Tylosaurus, which is a neat Mosasaur compared to everything else lmao.

But, as we saw with Kaiwhekea, I highly doubt they will care about this.

[heady thunder]

In the end, theyll do what they want playstyle wise.

[sudden wind]

If they wanted to have some more basic stuffs, they definitely could have chosen other animals.

That really is something I don't understand with dino games is that the developers will pick animals and then do whatever they want with it without looking at what we know of them.
If you want a certain playstyle, look for a creature that fits it and we know is close to what you want. As simple as that.

[scenic flame]

isn't leed in a family of super fast fish though

[sudden wind]

They are, just like lamnids usually are fast sharks but basking sharks are quite slow (minus when they sprint).

Leedsichthys feeding strategy would have been kind of similar to how giants sharks do as well as how gray whales feed on the bottom (I recall Leed also being a benthic feeder as well).

[karmic quiver]

Isn’t the reason kai is inaccurate cus it’s actually based off another plesiosaur that was scrapped as it was invalid “woolungasaurus” I believe?

[small dagger]

Still doesn’t explain why they called it Kai or why they gave it lips

[karmic quiver]

I’m guessing it’s cus they already made the model and couldn’t re do it without extending the release date

[covert lintel]

kaiwhekea was publicly visible on the list of planned playables for years before its release, i don't think that's it

[karmic quiver]

That was just a silhouette from a Google image

[covert lintel]

and it was labelled as kaiwhekea.

[karmic quiver]

Hmmm yeh you have a point may I ask how long ago this list was

[covert lintel]

september 2019, i think. it's in #please-read-faq

[karmic quiver]

Ahh I see so I guess it was just a bruh moment like with pycno

[steady rock]

how much does utah weigh?

[cold sphinx]

like 800-1.2k pounds or 400kg-600kg if i remember correctly, that zone

[chilly knot]

Yes

[steady rock]

and how much does chasmosaurus weigh?

[tiny holly]

I was about to say woolunga isnt invalid but i was thinking of umoonsaurus smh. Missed opportunity to add one of the coolest plesiosaurs imo, dude was opalised and had mini crests on its head

Strange beaft

[cold sphinx]

like 1-2 ton zone is all i can find about it so my guess is the 1-2 ton zone

[tiny holly]

<2 tons sounds so wrong and small but i always forget that chasmo really isnt that big compared to most notable ceratopsids

[neat drum]

Plesiosaurs are all super nifty but they went and fubared it

[cold sphinx]

ikr, esp when alot of the more popular dinos are literally the biggest in their zones and chasmo is "mid" sized( still bigger than even a obese cow)

[tiny holly]

Like chasmosaurines are all usually pretty huge. Its the namesake of the family but its a baby in comparison lol

Giganotosaurus is a charcharodontosaurid specifically which might be the confusion here

Afaik its never been asigned to charcharodontosaurus itself or anything like that, or vice versa.

Also obligatory "be careful how you use wikipedia" comment, their featured picture of giga on the wiki page is this awful skeletal mount which speaks for itself really

[iron halo]

Why does it have neck arms

[tiny holly]

The same? Chacharodontodauridae as a family predates giga's discovery, because charchar predates it. The 1996 date i think you're getting here is just about a new skull for charchar that was found, not the discovery of charchar itself

[tough parcel]

Foul beast

[tiny holly]

Real

If the shoulders were place just a little better it wouldnt be anywhere near as bad. Its funny how something that small can throw it off entirely

[covert lintel]

L + ratio + no gastralia + arms in ya neck

[steady rock]

i need advice

[heady thunder]

You should have bought Bitcoin in 2015.

[neat drum]

Time travel isnt possible so you cant pet the dinosaurs

[stiff osprey]

false
https://media.tenor.com/cl3v6pbtdDEAAAAC/birds-pet.gif

[steady rock]

lets say a utahraptor pounced on a chasmosaurus's head while its down, could the chasmo throw the utah behind it?

[stiff osprey]

doubtful

the utah would just get its stomach pierced in three places

[sudden wind]

It actually didn't have a crest.

[sage cave]

Opinions on this anatomy? It’s a giga

[sudden wind]

Seems okay

Here is the latest skeletal for reference

[small dagger]

This rex is so good

[pearl briar]

i have bunch of pic accurate rex pic tbh

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-darth-maul-choose-wisely-be-wise-pick-wisely-gif-25473206

[cold sphinx]

yes

[heady thunder]

The third one easily.

[small dagger]

if only we had this ingame, the devs wont hear our plea though :C

[valid grove]

i got carried away with the orbital boss on that one so the entire area looks fused almost

wait could u elaborate actually your making me second guess myself

[heady thunder]

Its the way the osteoderms on the eyes and the neck that reminds me of acro, I see a Rex, but my brain sees an acro too.

[valid grove]

i agree with the neck i went a bit overboard with it

tho the orbital boses yea thats to much i got carried away but commissionor likes it so if it aintbroke im not fixing it kinda deal

[small dagger]

I want accurate rex in PoT so bad you don’t even know

But I do understand that many other Dino’s need it much more so I just have to be patient and wait for rexes time

[woeful falcon]

You keep saying that and when people tell you its mostly accurate you say that you mean "not ugly"

[small dagger]

I more mean both ig

[neat drum]

Everyone wants not ugly rex in pot

Pot's rex is fine accuracy wise hes just in need of a texture facelift and maybe a lip job

[woeful falcon]

Like having lips at all 😄 well one is gonna be lipless regardless bc that's how they've been doing it

[heady thunder]

Oh yeah, if the costumer likes it then its gg, no need to rework it.

[small dagger]

This look for the bal species would be nice, gives it personality but is still grounded in accuracy

[neat drum]

True true, its moreso that multiple are lipless thats mmmm

Anyways if you revamped the textures pot's rex would look like this dude, nothing fancy but def a rex

[woeful falcon]

Multiple lipless :sick_emoji:

Having keratin alone would go a long way

[small dagger]

I would prefer a head remodel, not retexture, it’s the general uncanny shape that many don’t like so going and sculpting a new head for it would do wonders

[neat drum]

The head looks fine, its just not modeled after the usual rex specimens, theres rexes who 100% looked like the PoT rex in the face

Not looking like Sue or Stan is actually p dope

[small dagger]

Ehhhh the head is very ugly but that’s just my opinion

[neat drum]

Only weird gripe is the eyes are too big, but ik why they did that

If rex had accurate lil dots for eyes it would look weird on mobile/lower graphics

[small dagger]

It’s very uncanny, maybe it is the eyes looking huge and dry like bouncy balls

[woeful falcon]

Rexes had a lot of facial variation

[nocturne cairn]

pretty sure it's based on Stan

[frigid coral]

boy do I love my triangle eyes

[small dagger]

Welp that’s not good, Stan had a dip because he got injured so we have a Rex universally with an injury in every individual

[neat drum]

I thought we figured out it wasnt based on stan looks wise, just size wise?

[nocturne cairn]

thought it was stan look wise, last I saw anything on it though was when rex released and people were just comparing it to references

[neat drum]

Things that a texture update would cure

[neat drum]

If i actually was invested in this convo i'd go dig for some answers but tbh i dont wanna go through paleo chat looking at every mention of "Rex"

[nocturne cairn]

fair

[small dagger]

Kai rex and lamb are highest on my list of must be remodeled

[neat drum]

I choose life

[small dagger]

Notice how weird it looks next to Sue

[woeful falcon]

When in doubt, I always assume its based on something Hartman made

[nocturne cairn]

I wouldn't use Sue's museum mount as a reference

[woeful falcon]

Hartman's frequently used, especially for older Jiggy models

[small dagger]

Yeahhh it’s only just been remounted and it’s already outdated

Sue is also huge and with a tonne of injury’s that make her not a great reference for the average Rex

[small dagger]

Surprised Hartman’s work spawned the horrid Rex in PoT

[woeful falcon]

I would say the time of which jiggy made the model likely spawned it.

[neat drum]

Rex is 100% old asf, def around the same age as sucho model wise

[nocturne cairn]

I'd say closer to Spino model age, old sucho was pretty old

[small dagger]

WAIT!!! Jiggy is remodeling old models Rex model is old so Rex gets remodel! Let’s f-ing go! Took my brain wayyyy to long to connect the dots

[elfin pulsar]

That’s really optimistic

[small dagger]

The sheer intellect, y’all could never have such brain capacity as my terrestrial ape brain

[nocturne cairn]

rex is still more recent than the ones getting remodels

[woeful falcon]

Rex was also recently released. We don't know how old it is. Taper those hopes

[neat drum]

Maybe, its likely itll just get a texture revamp at most since it looks rough on that front but is otherwise fine

[small dagger]

It looks old old. Maybe as old as campto when you look at it’s textures and accuracy

[nocturne cairn]

Campto was worse accuracy wise

[small dagger]

Judging by that and the textures though

[woeful falcon]

We're gonna have this conversation repeatedly at this rate but I think its important to get one thing straight:

As far as accuracy goes, PoT rex is mostly fine, other species aside. Model quality is another story but that's likely due to the age of the model. Regardless, that doesn't matter to ol paleo chat

[small dagger]

Let’s take it to pot chat, we can talk about model quality there

[elfin pulsar]

Hey question, should lambeo have a “hoof”?

[small dagger]

Yes All hadrosaurs had them on the front feet

[woeful falcon]

You can go ahead I don't want to have this conversation a 4th time

I'm curious about those suspicions of stan being PoT rex's base

[neat drum]

Yes or no, depends on who you ask

[nocturne cairn]

I'm 109 pages in the search in and nothing yet.

[elfin pulsar]

Wait so all hadros had hooves?

[small dagger]

It seems like it, it’s got the dip in the snout but maybe that’s a coincidence

[woeful falcon]

Well we can make new comparisons. Someone hook us up with a good side view of PoT rex's head

[neat drum]

Edmontosaurus is p distant from lambeosaurus in the ol family tree, so it couldve had a hoof, or something more akin to the usual lil glove feet

[elfin pulsar]

Oh so it’s not confirmed that all hadros had hooves

[small dagger]

It’s safe to say most hadrosaurs had hooves, there are many footprints that show it and the Edmonton skeleton

[woeful falcon]

Bars can have a hoof

[small dagger]

Maybe it was an adaptation to Carry all the weight

[woeful falcon]

Get rid of the sponges they're calling feet currently though

[elfin pulsar]

I hope both bars and lambeo are given hooves then

[small dagger]

Bars and lamb deserve remodels

[tough parcel]

Also keep in mind, it’s not a “hoof” like an ungulate, it’s more like a human nail on their hand

[covert lintel]

yeah bars is squarely Inaccurate rather than just a bit bland - it's a bit dire really, the whole head is just... Weird

[neat drum]

Basically only certain groups had derived feet with hooves akin to edmontosaurus, other groups had large nails, but likely bore more weight on their other toes and had a more glove-shape going on vs giant human thumbs

[neat drum]

Also this ^

[woeful falcon]

Thanks

I wish you went with any other skin but imma also get my ass outta bed and look in game too

[elfin pulsar]

Oh ye ik, it’s just a hoof as in a big nail to bear weight. Nowhere near as specialized as ungulates right?

[nocturne cairn]

can just take another pic, you want albino or something?

[neat drum]

Yeah nothing like ungulates, ungulates are built dif

[woeful falcon]

Whichever offers better contrast with bg. Maybe a lil blur in the bg too, I forget the setting

[blazing basalt]

Depends, lambeo, as well as probably all lambeosaurins, had nails, now the thing we don't exactly know is how large these nails were and if they formed a "hoof" like what edmontosaurus has, afaik atleast on parasaurolophus it probably had 2 (similarly sized) large nails in contact with the ground based on how its hand bones are structured

[neat drum]

You worded it better than me but same point i was tryna make

[blazing basalt]

[neat drum]

im havin a bad time with words tonight so thenks

[woeful falcon]

Too bad

[woeful falcon]

that'll work

[nocturne cairn]

couldn't get the blur to look good bc it blurred the outline of the head

[woeful falcon]

not enough skeletal artists do closed mouth. Closed mouth theropoda is such a nice look

[blazing basalt]

Alr, comparing it to Sue (which seems to be the specimen the base model is based on), the biggest issue PoT's rex has on its neck/skull area seems to be how tall the back end of the skull is, and how it connects with the neck. Alongside that, there's the lack of lacrimal horns and the eyes being too far apart

[small dagger]

So essentially the whole head and some of the neck is the issue?

[blazing basalt]

Thats just the neck and head area, the torso is also too deep, should be slightly more slender, but besides that yeah

[small dagger]

Too deep?

[blazing basalt]

But rex as a whole is alr accuracy wise like blub mentioned, its nothing too major

[wind prairie]

it's the definition of mid

[small dagger]

Apart from the head yes

[bright veldt]

To me PoT has a fine rex but not THE modern rex

It's missing the M A S S that modern rexes have

[storm heron]

Doesn't it have a pretty huge mass already? It has a deep and wide torso, a bulky neck

[tight abyss]

I forget how massive modern rexes are

[little mauve]

I love the horns & bosses on the Prehistoric Planet Tyrannosaurus

[woeful falcon]

Does modern = since Prehistoric Planet

[little mauve]

I guess until season 2!

https://theconversation.com/prehistoric-planet-tv-show-asked-us-to-explore-what-weather-the-dinosaurs-lived-through-183701 I thought this article about how they used paleoclimate models for the show was really cool

[bright veldt]

Nah it was like that prior. PP just popularized it and is the best example.

[neat drum]

Goathrob is the oldest "modern rex" iirc

[woeful falcon]

Does modern rex mean

Fat

[tiny holly]

The ones above the eyes might not have been crests and were just raised orbitals iirc, but afaik the nasal crest is still a thing

[junior dawn]

Im pretty sure the PP rex has a bit too much meat, especially in some areas that wouldnt have that much meat in any case

jesus

[stoic tinsel]

Oh wow didn't realize it was that bad

[tough parcel]

Is this the PP rex? It doesn’t look like the outline of it

[junior dawn]

it is, its from the official bts stuff. Its the model overlayed over hartmans skeletal from what ive been told

[tough parcel]

But it…the dewlap doesn’t look like it’s from the PP model

[junior dawn]

uncovered or whatever the bts videos are called

[pearl briar]

i thought pp using this skeletal

(no pp rex didn't use dan's scotty skeletal bcuz scotty possessed smth i called 'small horn')

[sudden wind]

It is muscular

[storm heron]

Bulky

[sudden wind]

Tosha came back on this statement and actually believes there were no crest covered by keratin on the nasal. Though, yes, a ridge was present.

[pearl briar]

yes
fat, chonky, and full of muscle

[heady thunder]

Guy has a tripple chin, he should stop skipping cardio.

[pearl briar]

what is the most up-to-date megalosaurus length and weight? (pls don't based on google and wikipedia they're are the worst)

[frigid coral]

wdym Wikipedia is pretty fine in that regard

[storm heron]

That is an interesting interpretation of Megalosaurus, snake-like with a deep neck

[sudden wind]

I think largest Megalosaurus is about 11 meters for 4 or so tons. Though it is based on fragmentary remains.

Though the most complete specimen is much smaller : https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/897994654916689961/955206237329444905/FOPGYapXsA0UUYB.jpg

[hallow spear]

I have no clue if that’s his updated one or not he updates it so much

[pearl briar]

i'm afraid that if i'm using wikipedia there's always a big chance that the length and weight is outdated

[small dagger]

Found this Rex model, was wondering how accurate it is? The lips may be too mammalian and it has a skull dip sooo

[dreamy shuttle]

Wait I'm confused, isn't the fact that theropods have lips alr been proven or smth?

[tough parcel]

This is the newest one

[tough parcel]

Not proven 100% but basically a given at this point for most theropods

[storm heron]

Woah

Has Paleojoe released a new skeletal of Torvosaurus ?

Oooof, alright

[pearl briar]

got the weight here
1.627-4.624 kg
need someone to help me convert it to ton it'll be so appreciated to me

[tough parcel]

Literally 1.6 - 4.6 tons

Also that’s the old model so idk if it holds up too well

[pearl briar]

appreciated falcon thank you 🙏🙏🙏

[dreamy shuttle]

Any reason on why lips are more accepted than lipless theropods?

[tall ridge]

dinosaurs are awsome reptiles my favorite reptiles

[tough parcel]

Because lips are the default mode for all tetrapods. You’re need to be pressured to lose them, not gain them. Also bird beaks are derived lips iirc so

[small dagger]

Paleontologists can’t let preference cloud the scientific truth or probability’s

[dreamy shuttle]

Ah I see

[dreamy shuttle]

Yeah that's why I was confused, I thought there was a new paleontology discovery regarding lack of lips on theropods

[small dagger]

No, as of current knowledge theropods evolved from a lipped ancestor so most likely had lips except for extremely specialized genus’s and species

[pearl briar]

what a W

[small dagger]

Although the Rex model is a different problem in itself, it’s not inaccurate it’s just not a great model regarding quality so that is also a big problem.

[dreamy shuttle]

Yeah I can def see it being accurate, but idk. The model ingame feels kinda off (I also think the slit eyes are apart of the problem for some reason)

[small dagger]

Yeah, the model is fine accuracy wise for the most part, it’s just very old, I think it may be one of the earliest made models, maybe around when spinos model was made, so it will likely see a remodel or at least touchups

Ideal Rex remodel imo, max belliomo is an amazing paleoartist and does such accurate and realistic work

[dreamy shuttle]

Though I highly doubt we'd get that high res model 😭 . But here's hoping we get a better one sometime in the future

[small dagger]

Got this picture at the museum on Saturday, looks like the duck is judging you

[small dagger]

They did say Old models not old releases would get touched up.
Rex has an old model so it will likely get a remodel some time though it’s not a priority due to the fact that it’s not too inaccurate, I would give it a couple months.

[dreamy shuttle]

Couple of months is fair, I even thought they wouldn't do touch ups on the guy lol

[small dagger]

Campto was a priority because of how inaccurate it’s model is

[dreamy shuttle]

yeah and honestly, lovee the new model. I can def see the difference more than the metri, cerato and others

[small dagger]

We aren’t really sure. But I’m assuming due to the backlash for the model on its release and the fact that is very old

[dreamy shuttle]

Wait did PoT genuinely get backlash when the model first came out? Wasn't really into the community back then, what happened lol? (just give a brief summary so we don't get off topic)

[small dagger]

It was huge, the backlash for not only Rex but the general update was crazy.
They shut off the discord to wait for it to die out, that update caused lots of crashes and some people couldn’t get into the game

That’s not even mentioning how mad people were about rex due to the fact that we had such high expectations

Plus the lack of lacrimal crests and the model being generally not great made people very very angry

[small dagger]

But it was Also for the update, wasn’t just Rex though the whole thing was kinda a disaster

[still prairie]

damn, Its funny how something that made me consider getting the game on ps4 was something that caused long time players to quit entirely

[dreamy shuttle]

Oh yeah I heard people were mad too because in the trailer they showed sarco being able to grab dinosaurs (which wasn't implemented in the game) with a lot more mechanics that were just for show. Also yeahh... when I first saw the trailer the t rex model looked off as well

[scenic flame]

Why were people mad about the sarco thing, it's a cgi trailer, it's inherently gonna be not exact to gameplay

[dreamy shuttle]

Well it's just high expectations ig, since sarco atm isn't that good of an ambush predator (unless you're ambushing something twice as weak as you)

[bright veldt]

Not gunna comment after this cause off-topic but I think it’s very reasonable to get upset at a low-quality trailer that low key clickbaits the new update and what you can do in it

[scenic flame]

Low quality for sure

But the grab thing specifically, idk I've seen way more out there things in so many other cgi trailers noone has complained about

Disappointing sure but idk about misleading, nesting scene more understandable

On the topic of rex accuracy tho, was it mentioned above about the eye spacing

[heady thunder]

No from what I can recall

[dreamy shuttle]

Oh yeah, talking about the ingame model. What's up with kaiwhekea having lips 😭

[scenic flame]

No idea tbf

[white matrix]

Yes, it's head needs to be squashed lol.

[sudden wind]

Got stockier and smaller head no?

[chilly knot]

Dinosaur soft tissue syndrome

[bright veldt]

Plesiosaurs being one of the few reptile groups that blatantly don’t have lips

[hallow spear]

Thats dans Megalo lol

[thorn gazelle]

Is paleontology more of a guessed based work when it comes to studying prehistoric creatures?

[dreamy shuttle]

If what you mean speculation based on what was found then yes

[woeful falcon]

Not really no. Its like any other science I would say. Where one might say its more "guesswork" is places that scientists can't exactly observe or study because it involves extinct animals, such as in depth behaviors. But I wouldn't really call it guesswork either. I'd say it all comes from a place of education and attempts at understanding. But can't know everything.

[ripe ruin]

Ehh kinda but not entirely

[wary junco]

I'd argue "guess" is the wrong word. Palaeontology is rooted in the fossil record which by its definition is inherently incomplete, but where there are gaps we extrapolate from the data we do have. It's not guesswork 😛

[woeful falcon]

Hunnit

[shadow blaze]

O dang, you're here too

But yes, can agree

[small dagger]

Not even to mention the fact that they released a Dino that didn’t really feel like the quality we were used to from the devs

Which also caused large backlash

[thorn gazelle]

I see.

[small dagger]

I find it so interesting that ceratopsians and parrots have the same beak,
It’s such a great piece of evidence go see what they ate and even what they behaved like in some cases

[little mauve]

Just learned of Holtz's hypothesis that Triceratops might have had the highest bite force of any land vertebrate, for my money it was the beak that was the real danger zone to any potential predator

[rose thorn]

Looks at T.rex
Yea..ok

[wind prairie]

lmao

[neat drum]

Triceratops 100% did not have the strongest bite force, and didnt need to

[rose thorn]

I wanna hear the reasoning…however poor

[neat drum]

Beaks using physics and a sharp cutting edge to do the work without needing beefy jaw muscles

Think of garden shears and how with just a lil bit of force they can cut incredibly thick branches

[frigid coral]

triceratops evolved from Tyrannosaurus, obviously

[little mauve]

They had enormous jaw muscles, much larger than tyrannosaurs. It hasn't been studied yet, but he expects it will shatter records

[tough parcel]

There was an argument somewhere that I'll need to dig up, but I doubt it was the highest of any terrestrial vertebrate

[little mauve]

Yeah you'd have to take it up with him lol, like I said still just a hypothesis, I'll try to find the twitter thread

https://twitter.com/BradtheCurator/status/1552636459554930689?s=20 tweet contains link to the lecture with the relevant bits

🦖Brad Shelby🦕 (@BradtheCurator)

@MercuryMercM Like I said, unfortunately we don't have any concrete studies just yet to put hard numbers on the bite force. But you can hear @TomHoltzPaleo talk about it in more detail in his dinosaur Paleo college course here https://t.co/rDXogQVJpa at the Shearing Dental Battery section.

Twitter · Jul 28, 2022, 12:45 PM

[tight kettle]

Please note that reminders and warnings are posted so the conversation does not go further than it has, or is a general reminder for the chat as things are being discussed. If you are not tagged in these messages, it is a message for the channel as a whole and should not be taken personally. As per our rules, rule enforcement is determined by the staff team, and is not for personal interpretation. If you have an issue with a staff member, please direct concerns to @feral crane as to keep the channel on topic.

[ancient knoll]

The 4.6t thing isn't megalosaurus proper.
I wouldn't use that estimate for megalo itself

[trim crag]

wow deleted my message

[uncut jungle]

Dinosaurs are actually just pebbles

[small dagger]

S C R E E C H
Wonder if a sassy little baby Rex would do this

[pulsar star]

If this would be the new rex model ill be so happy.

[nocturne gazelle]

New rex skin when??? 👀

[pearl briar]

can you guys help me choosing the most accurate andrewsarchus?

[bright veldt]

All of them are perfectly valid.

[small dagger]

I would say first one but all are possible

[pearl briar]

ok then thx

So it seems that carnivores ice age lied to me

instead of wolf-like appearance, andrewsarchus provides a half pig half hippo-like appearance like entelodonts

[small geyser]

That’s just how andrewsarchus was depicted at the time. The more up to date depictions came much later.

[pearl briar]

oh ok then

[woeful falcon]

That game is older than most people here

[white matrix]

When was it released?

[woeful falcon]

Its from 2001

[white matrix]

I am younger than it by 1 year lol. 2002 here

[chilly knot]

3 years😔

[woeful falcon]

Testament to its age. The only other depiction of Andrewsarchus of that time, and probably the most well known showcasing of it, was Walking With Beasts.

[light osprey]

Out of those I can stay with relative certainty that number four is less likely to be accurate

[white matrix]

How is the maximum size of a species determined if they only have one specimen/skeleton to examine?

[stiff osprey]

Short answer, it isn't

Long answer is that you could assume the specimen to be average sized (statistically speaking, it's more likely for an average sized animal to fossilize than a freakishly big or freakishly small one). Then look at either modern animals or dinosaurs with a higher number of specimens, see how much bigger they can get compared to average, and apply that to the first specimen

[glad gorge]

https://twitter.com/robokaseki/status/1474697345996845059

Robokaseki 化石をロボットにして泳がせる。⭐︎AFK研究所(同)⭐︎ロボ化石プロジェクト (@robokaseki)

We were reminded that #Anomalocaris canadensis ,#Amplectobelua and #Eurypterus have completely different types of propulsion style. The striations of the fins on the fossil tell the story, and interesting to find out by building the robot! It's interesting to see real swimming .

▶ Play video

Twitter · Dec 25, 2021, 11:03 AM

swimming patterns of three paleozoic invertebrates

[small dagger]

[halcyon goblet]

looks like a thick snake

[woeful falcon]

God help you if the snakes you find are like tyrannosaurs

[storm heron]

I know, I didn't say it was PaleoJoe's Megalosaurus.

[storm heron]

A carnivorous hippo.

[storm heron]

They updated the model of Andrewsarchus?

[storm heron]

Large, bulky, and having powerful bites; Pythons are like Tyrannosaurus ha.

[pearl briar]

how accurate this meme?
T Rex thinking they are 'the mightiest ever'
Triceratops, Ankylosaurus, and K-PG Asteroid: 😃

[heady thunder]

3 funny out of 10

[small dagger]

Prehistoric Planet bars is so good!
Love it’s design, anyone know how it is accuracy wise? I think it’s pretty good

General prehistoric planet designs are very accurate, would be cool to see BBC make it into a dinosaur game though I doubt they will

[light osprey]

Yes it is indeed a very accurate design. Especially the shape of its beak 👀

[bright veldt]

It’s doesn’t exactly have the distinctive back. PhP clearly made edmontosaurus and then basically reused the model for most of the hadrosaurs.

[pearl briar]

.....

what t rex I've ever hunted in Carnivores match with t rex specimen Scotty?
is it my 11.45 ton rex?
my 11.47 ton rex?
my 11.37 ton rex?
my 11.59 ton rex?
my 10.27 ton rex?
my 11.25 ton rex?
or my 10.85 ton rex?
(ignore they're length)

[chilly knot]

Bro what

[pearl briar]

what t rex trophy i have is match with....
what can i say
scotty ig

[heady thunder]

The biggest one cos Scotty is big

[arctic turtle]

Bro I remember this game it was so good

Deinocheirus and Therizinosaurus which one would most likely use it’s claws and long arms for defense? I was thinking Theri for the longest time there however the Theris claws really whert as strong as some might think they would honestly break off easily to where the Deinocheirus has smaller claws making it more likely for defense? What I’m asking is which species would most likely use there claws for defensive purposes?

[frigid coral]

Deinocherius

[arctic turtle]

That’s what I figured

[frigid coral]

Therizinosaurus could not use its claws at all irl
If this were pre-2022 maybe Theri

[jagged trellis]

prolly le duck, though both would def use them for fighting and feeding, but seeing how duck is built id say duck would use em more

[arctic turtle]

Now honestly I could see theri using its claws for more of a scare tactic kinda like all bark no bite kinda thing

[light osprey]

Well their claws were still properly attached to their digits so they wouldn’t have fallen off lol. Based on some analyses they could’ve definitely been used to stab but that it

[jagged trellis]

having human sized claws would certainly help with that id say, alongside being freakishly tall at a constant and whatever noises it could make

[tepid grotto]

I used to play thatgame with my cousins The memories

[frigid coral]

even with stabbing, the claws would shatter, they were extremely fragile

[arctic turtle]

That’s where I’m gettin at

[frigid coral]

(or at least with any fairly sized animal, I’m sure it could be used on smaller stuff)

It’s less a case of falling out and more so the claws literally shattering

[arctic turtle]

Now could theri be a omnivorous dinosaur? Like eating small mammals and baby dinosaurs? Or has that Been debunked

[light osprey]

Mmm no, I’m pretty sure that’s incorrect

[frigid coral]

it’s not, lemme get the paper

[chilly knot]

Both certainly used their claws as weapons for self defense

[frigid coral]

again, I can see it for smaller creatures or interspecific combat, but if the papers theory is correct then it ain’t goin slashing at Tarbosaurus anytime soon

[arctic turtle]

Oh for sure

[frigid coral]

https://idp.nature.com/authorize?response_type=cookie&client_id=grover&redirect_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nature.com%2Farticles%2Fs42003-023-04552-4

[snow python]

What was the largest Phytosaur: Rutiodon or Colossosuchus?

[arctic turtle]

Also I would love to think theris where grumpy animals like modern day Elephants just attack and kill small animals because you dont like them hahahah

[light osprey]

Stress tests are for pressures applied adjacent to the point of the claw, meaning the animal couldn’t slash, but could safely puncture other animals

[frigid coral]

not sure how well this paper holds up cause I haven’t been keeping up with the discussion

[frigid coral]

do you have a source for this? genuinely curious bout it cause I’m working on some paleoart atm ❤️

[chilly knot]

If theri wasn't able to use its claws for defense then it was free tarbo fodder

[arctic turtle]

Again it could of been a all bark no bite situation where the theri could scare off large theropods just with its build

[frigid coral]

still very possible for theri to use its arms, beak, etc. too fragmentary to discount just yet

[compact trout]

@chilly knot it is fodder

[chilly knot]

Theris claws were fine for stabbing, ez

[compact trout]

If a tarbo ran it 2 them they are snapping off tbh

[light osprey]

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2014.0497

[light osprey]

Strongest point of the claw was the tip and ventral surface

[hardy ravine]

What do you guys think are the best marine prehistoric reptiles? i need some ideas

[lyric quail]

Idk

[chilly knot]

Tylosaurus is the best

[compact trout]

@hardy ravine shasta

[light osprey]

Hoffmann’s Mosasaurus undisputed goat

[lyric quail]

Thalattosuchia

[chilly knot]

Milked by media+smaller

[light osprey]

For sure milked, but we’ve yet to dispute the studies showing maximum length of upwards of 50ft

[hardy ravine]

Thanks!

[compact trout]

Same 4 rex its weak how u get murked by a space rock

[chilly knot]

Using head body ratios of the 60s

Largest specimen got nerfed to 12.2m

[compact trout]

Not close 2 50

[light osprey]

When

[chilly knot]

Skeletal by incinerox

[light osprey]

Could I get a reputable paper on this cause I’m genuinely curious. I’ve yet been able to find a paper refuting the original maximum estimated length

[elfin warren]

Hey I'm looking to get some ideas for a dino oc I will draw in the future! I mainly want to better understand the habits of the Suchomimus. Are there any irl animals that are comparable to Suchomimus in terms of habits and behavior that I can study?

[jagged trellis]

we don't know entirely but id base it on animals that live around water ways and will swim a fair bit but not just diving non stop, like a beach wolf, a bear( some would say a beach bear), kinda like that( watch it be a turtle)

[elfin warren]

Ah ok thx!

[slim ridge]

If it was around with Tarbo it had some way of avoiding or defending itself from them, otherwise it simply wouldn’t exist.
No animal is rlly canon fodder

[heady thunder]

And animals that are canon fodder usually have enough fodder to survive.

[little mauve]

look at living archosaurs: waterbirds like herons & storks, crocodiles & alligators

[elfin warren]

I'll keep those in mind too! I was also thinking to study diving birds like loons maybe! Thx again!

[tough parcel]

Honestly, if we had to compare Sucho to something in the modern day, I'd go grizzly simply because it seems to be fishing a good amount of time, but also hunting terrestrial dinosaurs

[little mauve]

yeah agreed I think it's highly unlikely to have been exclusively a fisher. Maybe it took more land vertebrates as it got bigger and older, dietary shifts are very common in living archosaurs

[heady thunder]

Yeah, wasnt a baryonyx discovered with iguanadon remains in its stomach? If that guy did it sometimes, the bigger bulkier sucho probs gave it a try from time to time.

[slim ridge]

Aye juvenile Iguanodon

[little mauve]

Their social behavior would almost certainly be quite un-bearlike however, you could justifiably draw a bonded pair of mates for instance similar to many types of waterfowl (which are a relatively primitive group of living birds)

[heady thunder]

Maybe even croc like, so mobbing suchos.

[slim ridge]

Bears are also a lot more generalistic than spinosaurids would likely be, bear food preferences and habitat vary wildly between populations as they aren’t specialized fishers etc

[chilly knot]

Not a paper but by a person who is among the most reliable on the scaling field

[neat drum]

or really croclike with coordinated hunting strats that are comparable to cetaceans and primates

[little mauve]

great idea or a huge group lazing around together

[bright veldt]

Suchomimus was also the largest terrestrial predator in its environment. It didn’t have much to fear.

[chilly knot]

As a rule skeletals are generally better than papers for size

[heady thunder]

But id doubt it, with suchos probably requiring more food in shorter intervals cos of their faster metabolism, I doubt theyd tolerate each other that much unless there was a huge food surplus.

[little mauve]

Good point! Make sure to include a healthy run of Cretaceous fish nearby if you go in this direction

[tough parcel]

No, ya'll don't understand, we have definitive proof it was going for terrestrial dinosaurs (or at least, currently definitive proof) in the form of isotopes in da bones showing it was a pretty decent fisher + eater of dinosaurs

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2018.0197

I think this is it (the paper discussing it)

[little mauve]

isotope studies are the freakin best

[heady thunder]

Still, I doubt huge apex predators with decently fast metabolisms would tolerate eachother that much and congregate like crocs do unless under specific circumstances.

[light osprey]

Now I’m interested in seeing the scaling behind Primordial Tyrants Mosasaurus 🤔

[tough parcel]

They've been in papers

[light osprey]

Can you give me one????

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/benedict-cumberbatch-doctor-strange-dr-strange-butterfly-space-gif-24974706

[glad gorge]

https://twitter.com/robokaseki/status/1638726827895308288

Robokaseki 化石をロボットにして泳がせる。⭐︎AFK研究所(同)⭐︎ロボ化石プロジェクト (@robokaseki)

Anomalocaris Type Robot underwater swimming Test.
アノマロカリスに学んだロボット、調整と改良の後スピードも向上。ほぼ自由に泳ぐようになりました。羽ばたき主体のアンプレクトベルアに学んだロボットよりも、常にのんびり泳いでいる場合にはエネルギー効率も良いようです。一長一短の特徴も。

Likes

561

Retweets

131

▶ Play video

Twitter · Mar 23, 2023, 2:18 AM

[tough parcel]

I don't recall the name at all so I can't, but I remember laughing at it because the authors didn't know his real name so they credited him as "Incinerox"

[arctic turtle]

I haven’t read on it much but what’s with the whole spino looking like a walrus kinda theory 😂

[tough parcel]

There isn't a theory, it was meant to be a shitpost, a satirical take on Spinosaurus after All Yesterday's. It was never meant to be taken seriously and you should not do so

[heady thunder]

Naaaaah, walrus spino.

[chilly knot]

Spinofaarus is not funny anymore, just pure cringe

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/transformers-sentinel-optimus-prime-optimus-prime-gif-26529362

[distant lark]

Suchomimus was probably really efficient in stealing Eocarcharia lunch too

[slim ridge]

For spino itself maybe, but I do quite like the concept.

[arctic turtle]

Thoughts on this?

[river citrus]

boi be looking hella THICC

[jagged trellis]

that obesity appears to be a rising trend

[sage cave]

What abt this

[arctic turtle]

Would it be a far off concept tho? I mean look at elephants the bigger you are the fatter you tend to be looking at modern day animals

[slim ridge]

Iirc elephants don’t rlly have a high body fat percentage

[nocturne cairn]

Modern large animals are also mammals, not reptiles. Mammals have a lot more soft tissue

[scenic flame]

reptiles and mammals have very different soft tissue

[slim ridge]

Aside from that yeah I don’t think Spino compares well to herbivorous mammals

[slim ridge]

So yeah, it’s a well made drawing and it’s funny to look at, but not very likely

[ancient crystal]

Still, spino's whole deal is spiting in the face of scientists so who knows

[tough parcel]

It's not "who knows", that level of soft tissue is obesity, plain and simple. Like, morbidly obese

[arctic turtle]

Honestly we know practically nothing about spino we look at spinosaurus like specimens to learn about it so honestly we can’t say he looked or didn’t look like that

[jagged trellis]

the simple answer is: that spoon went to mcdonalds abit too much, talk over, next spino debate: why is spino

[covert lintel]

we know quite a lot about spino, actually. there's a good few specimens by now, and some close relatives that offer information too
the main Big Questions are "was it bipedal or quadrupedal?" (some have found that it couldn't balance as a biped, but others have found that it'd be fine) and "how aquatic was it?" (it seems to have adaptations for a semi-aquatic lifestyle of some kind, but it also seems to be pretty bad at swimming)

[nocturne cairn]

We can use related animals to infer about it, it's not a complete random guess as to what Spino was like and it very likely didn't break any trends seen in soft tissue of related animals

[bright veldt]

A good chunk of said specimens don’t overlap so what is and isn’t spinosaurus is kind of up in the air

[lunar copper]

"Riddle me this Ba-Paleontologists, am I bipdeal or quadrupedal? and if I were quadrupedal, would I walk on my knuckles?"

[compact leaf]

isn't it also looking like a few things are chimeric at this point?

[bright veldt]

Not really chimeric, just may or may not have material assigned to it that doesn’t belong. Some things afaik are inconsistent, not to mention the fact that we now know ecosystems with multiple Spinosaurids coexisting isn’t unusual

[covert lintel]

fair point tbh, although they're probably at least close relatives that can tell us something about spino
it's at least not one of those fragmentary weirdos with no particularly close relatives to base its anatomy on

[bronze pendant]

A friend and colleague of mine gave me a Tyrannosaur gift one time, a skeletal reconstruction that could be anatomically manipulated and stood on its' feet. The interesting thing was it could be put in poses that would cause it to tip over. I've since wondered if a similarly accurate Spinosaurus model could be made to EVER stand on two feet 🤔

[heady thunder]

It ofc can be made to stand on two feet depending on how you make it, will it be accurate? Idk

[bronze pendant]

Right, anatomical accuracy is important here 😅

[heady thunder]

We gotta wait for those arms to be digged out before we try tbh

[tough parcel]

We have found a way to make it bipedal (With its current legs)

[heady thunder]

The rest of my day has been made better now, thanks

[bronze pendant]

Please share the weight and balance research, I've got nothing to do today, would love to look at it 👍

[heady thunder]

Yeah thatd be nice, havent heard new stuff for bipedal spoon.

[little mauve]

http://markwitton-com.blogspot.com/2020/05/spinosaurus-2020-thoughts-for-artists.html Witton talks a bit about posture here, Cau & a few others favor a somewhat tripodal stance with the center of gravity thereby pulled further back but still over the hips

from The Desert Bones by Ijouiher (2022) :
"Cau (2014) suggests that the morphology of the cervical series allowed the neck to be held sub-perpendicular to the rest of the spine, creating the pronounced U-shaped bend seen in the neck of some birds.
This would have allowed the animal to remain upright, despite its reduced hind limbs, as folding the neck backward would help support an elongated head (Cau 2014).
Supporting the head in this posture would have required a series of
elastic nuchal ligaments, which in turn would require large attachment
sites, hence the enlarged neural spines. As these ligaments are passive,
constantly pulling the head and neck backward, the animal would require powerful flexor muscles to move the head and neck, and the spinosaurids have large pectoral regions perfect for anchoring large neck
musculature (Cau 2014).
Cau (2017) took this idea further with the suggestion that caudofemoralis, iliofibularis, and epaxial muscles would have had the same combined force as the neck extensor muscles. These effectively acted
as a counterweight and gave the animal the leverage needed to hoist its
front end upright. In this scenario, the tall spines over the hips would
have acted as an attachment site, much like the towers on a suspension bridge"

[tough parcel]

No weight or balance study, just certain quirks in the anatomy that was discovered when someone was digging through to make a skeletal

[little mauve]

wow discord formats copy/paste from pdf pretty oddly, apologies for that

[heady thunder]

That sounds interesting, and bipedal spoon is always a W.

[bronze pendant]

@little mauve I agree with the author: I have often wondered if we weren't stereotyping Spino's upper body too closely with other well established Theropods. I suspect if it were capable of anything akin to bipedalism, it was built much lighter pelvis forward, and heavier posterior.

[little mauve]

even Ibrahim & his team have walked back the claims of obligate quadrupedality and they were the only ones really pushing it. Until we get very strong evidence to the contrary, it's always going to be safest to assume it shared the default theropod bipedality

[little mauve]

That's basically it, heavy rear end balancing a sort of "folded up" front end similar to a heron

[light osprey]

The simple method of reconstructing S. aegyptiacus with its neck vertebrae curved up and backwards like a bird immediately balance the animal’s weight distribution

[little mauve]

What Cau suggests too is the neutral position for the muscles is holding the head and neck into that folded up position, i.e. it would have to exert its neck and chest muscles to move the neck & head outward/downward whatever. Picture how a heron rests in that neutral S curve position but can strike out

[frigid coral]

Is there ANOTHER Spinosaurus posture discussion rn

[light osprey]

All contributioning to the ecological niche of wading ambush predator 👍

[little mauve]

indeed

[heady thunder]

Yes, a very informative one at that too.

[frigid coral]

I am a firm believer in both a quad and biped posture

why not both? what if spino could stand both as a biped and a quad?

quad for casual movement on land, biped for faster land movement or wading

[little mauve]

No satisfactory evidence for quadrupedality, no other theropod is a quadruped

[heady thunder]

Yeah its very derived, also the arms are yet to be described.

[frigid coral]

no other theropod is even close to Spinosaurus, either.

[little mauve]

That's not a reasonable position imo

[frigid coral]

quad is worth considering, or at least until we get arm material

[little mauve]

Why assume it though?

[bronze pendant]

I disagree that it immediately does so. I think the simpler fact is you don't even get into the ballpark of bipedalism without the "craned" neck. But there's so much inferred mass here it's headache inducing to try and speak with absolute certainty.

[frigid coral]

considering how fast new discoveries are coming, and how different Spinosaurus is compared to… most animals in history I don’t think it should be discounted entirely

[little mauve]

You can still get in the ballpark, Cau's model is just the most rigorous currently and it neatly coincides with other skeletal and muscular adaptations

[frigid coral]

im not automatically assuming spino is quad or saying “yup, this boys, this is it.” Simply, I think it should be considered and looked into again, which I assume won’t be long because Spinosaurus gets a paper every month or so

[bright veldt]

The issue with suggesting quad for spino under the pretense of “ no other theropod like spino” is that short legs in theropods isn’t exactly as unusual as typically thought. Sure it looks absurd on spino, but most other spinosaurs had comparatively short legs. Abelisaurs like majungasaurus and Metriacanthosaurs like Yang were also rather low-slung.

[little mauve]

The legs show no sign of muscle reduction either, are four-toed presumably for support, & become semi-columnar when in that tripodal position- supporting even more weight

[bright veldt]

This isn’t that far off from spino if you look at it.

[frigid coral]

Of course, but I am not talking purely about the legs when it comes to spino being ‘different.’ Again, im not saying spino 100% was quad, or that it was more likely than whatever else, just saying it shouldn’t be entirely discarded yet

[tough parcel]

People slowly forgetting we have done small studies on Spino's CoG, showing that no stance would support bipedalism (at least, with the old models. Might've changed with the skeletal changes, needs to be re-tested)

[sage cave]

Daily spino discourse @last iron

[frigid coral]

I believe, with arm material, it could be interesting to look into
Considering the amount of things that also point away from bipedalism, it’s more than up in the air.

[tough parcel]

It ain't the arm material that's interesting :)

[stray wren]

Palm walking Spino 2025

[bronze pendant]

The only thing I feel most confident about Spinosaurus is: if indeed it were capable of dedicated bipedalism, which I'm not saying it wasn't, it must have been the most awkward biped 😅

[ripe ruin]

Or maybe,
Spino ain't interesting.
Know what is tho?

[frigid coral]

not saying the arm material is particularly more interesting

[little mauve]

Very true, it was certainly ponderous on land

[ripe ruin]

The jaw mechanics of helicoprion and how it on paper could have been used to pull soft bodied prey like ammonites out of their shells

[light osprey]

I think you missed the point. The neck posture is also indicative of its ecology. It’s not just a morphological trait we made up to dispute ibrahim’s original claims

[heady thunder]

It would look weird thats for sure, but thats in character for spoon.

[frigid coral]

what if spino barely even needed to go on land

[bronze pendant]

I've got a Helicoprion tooth in my coffee mug I'm drinking out of. Found it last year while volunteering on a job 😊

[bright veldt]

Studies suggest it did go on land, more often than crocs anyway.

[frigid coral]

which studies? I’m interested!

[heady thunder]

BhUt it CaNT sWIMm- some weird paper

[compact leaf]

has anyone done studies on a hippo style bottom walker for spino? it wasn't particularly hydrodynamic but you don't exactly need to be if you aren't trying to swim fast

[light osprey]

Like hippopotamus behavior? Because I know it’s leg bones are very dense, but not sure about the rest of its skeleton

[bright veldt]

It’s an older one that looked at isotopes in the bones.

[frigid coral]

that’s what I’m curious about, I’ve been thinking about hippo movement for like a year or so now but not sure if it holds up

[stray wren]

Spinosaurus's bones weren't all that dense compared to other animals, last I heard. Maybe slightly moreso but nowhere near a hippo

[bronze pendant]

Understand all 👍 I was simply pushing back on the idea that "craned neck" = bipedalism.

[light osprey]

But it does. It’s hands aren’t designed to carry its weight 😭

[bronze pendant]

What hands?

[little mauve]

They did show a trend towards density when compared with other spinosauridshttps://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04528-0

(which could also be an adaptation towards bipedality, strengthening those long bones)

[ripe ruin]

Much cooler than spino

[stray wren]

Yes but nowhere near that of a Hippo, as for hands we don't know what exactly spinosaur's hands looked like, so it's very hard to say for certain if they could or couldn't support said weight Palm walking spino is just as likely as it is not last I remember

[bronze pendant]

Helicoprion is cool AF 👍 But I'm a little biased. Also, shout out to Oryctodromeus 😅

[light osprey]

aegyptiacus specimens have preserved the upper arm bones and some finger bones

[frigid coral]

would spino need as much density as a hippo though?

[little mauve]

Oryctodromeus is very very cool, dino burrows!!

[jagged trellis]

rip ammonite for showing us how they hunt, bro gave it his all to educate us

[frigid coral]

coughs

[compact leaf]

afaik nobody has studied it yet, but it would make an interesting paper

[light osprey]

Uhh yes, that’s why hippos sink…. Because their level of density is required to become that kind of semi aquatic animal

[bronze pendant]

Perhaps not. Spinosaurus appears to have some biology for aquatic locomotion. Hippos do not, they literally bounce on the bottom of the river to gallop along 🤣

[little mauve]

the channels we've found in its environment show depths of 3-6 meters, make of that what you will just an interesting geological tidbit from this book

[light osprey]

That sounds quite deep for a coastal delta. I’m not a geologist tho so who knows

[little mauve]

Nothdurft et al. 2002 & Baioumy and Boulis 2012 are the sources on that if you're interested, it's specifically referring to the Bahariya Bight which was a mangrove embayment of some type

[bronze pendant]

The land I bought a few years ago is on 95 myo strata: It's been fun combing the debris while we build. It's disappointing however the mountains of Laramidia weren't as conducive to fossilization as say, the Morrison Formation 😔

[little mauve]

You're more likely to find a new genus though probably!

That's very cool, I live in NJ where most of our fossils were paved over long ago. Got a few decent sites though

[bronze pendant]

Everything is so smashed up though, it's like putting together a ceramic plate tossed out a window . . .

[little mauve]

that's where the fun (arguing) begins!

[bronze pendant]

We have the site we're building, and a big one to the South were a forest service road was cut into my mountain, exposing a huge layer.

[little mauve]

Did ya have a geologist out to look or are you going off geo maps? *for the age of the strata I mean

[bronze pendant]

I paid to have a geological survey done, very helpful.

[little mauve]

Sooo cool, what kind of sediment is it?

[bronze pendant]

So the land was bought for wildlife preservation, so when the geology report came back that the mountain was on Cretaceous era rock, my wife just laughed. She knew I had struck a personal goldmine 🤣

[frigid coral]

That’s amazing Kailani!

[little mauve]

lmao relatable!! My wife and I prospect at a place called Shark River, which is latest Cretaceous coastal marine deposits, and she wasn't into it until she found her first tooth. My best find was a Mosasaur tooth but still holding out hope for a washed out dinosaur

[blazing mural]

Is this pretty accurate?

[heady thunder]

2 for 1 lel, gg.

[light osprey]

Strange recreation of quetzalcoatlus’ crest. But yeah it’s accurate

[bright veldt]

Yeah it’s good

[little mauve]

Just about coming up on fossil season too, the winter thaw & spring rains always exposes good stuff

[jagged trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/awesome-ok-great-good-thumbs-up-gif-16351183 yes

[bronze pendant]

It's Idaho Batholith, the Atlanta Lobe of my particular property is a light colored Granodiorite.
Fossil season is right! We're doing another fossil scavenger hunt this year and tree planting event 👍

[jagged trellis]

bro speaking those science channels you see at 3 am

[glad gorge]

ok so
could dinosaurs roar

[jagged trellis]

probably

[glad gorge]

oh :P

[jagged trellis]

is that the first google result( yup it is)

[bronze pendant]

Hears cooing outside
Goes to feed the doves
*Gets eaten by Tyrannosaurs rex instead . . . *

[jagged trellis]

then again there is a debate about what counts as a roar, i just call it a loud noise from something angry

[little mauve]

Godspeed! Always loved a combo fossil/nature preserve, connects the past and the present in an awesome way

[glad gorge]

i think avian dinosaurs might have made for "bird-like" sounds while non avian dinosaurs might have made more reptilian sounds

[bright veldt]

Avian dinosaurs is literally just another word for birds

[jagged trellis]

also didn't we just find out stuff about chirping ankylosaurids or something like that

[bright veldt]

Non-avian dinosaurs are all the dinosaurs that aren’t birds (aka the ones we typically call dinosaurs)

[bright veldt]

Similar internal anatomy but it doesn’t mean bird like chirping noises. A lot of the auditory organs most typical birds have are very derived and specialized.

[glad gorge]

ah

[little mauve]

A lot of dinosaur auditory anatomy seems adapted for ultra-low frequency, which I've always found really interesting

[jagged trellis]

ah ok, so just looks the part and the question now being if it sounds the part

[glad gorge]

wait really?
i though theropods were avian or something

[bright veldt]

Nope. Avian dinosaurs are birds while non-avian dinosaurs are the rest of them. It’s terminology to further explain how birds are literally just dinosaurs.

[glad gorge]

ah
im aware birds are dinosaurs
i didnt know that all the other dinosaurs are non avian

what about dromeasaurs?

[little mauve]

They are close to the border line, but non-avian. Basically anything more birdlike than a dromaeosaur or archaeopteryx is on the avian side of that line

[bright veldt]

Still non-avian dinosaurs. Avian dinosaurs and birds are synonyms lol

[bronze pendant]

Animals can make a lot of creative noises without a specially adapted vocal chord or syrinx. Crocodilians for example can make your hair stand on end with some calls, shake your office windows even.

[glad gorge]

ah
neat!

[little mauve]

absolutely, all you need is a larynx and lungs and crocs indeed use theirs very well. The recent ankylosaur paper got kind of lost in the hype but it's really just the first description of a preserved one in a non-avian. The lack of preservation isn't surprising, considering the larynx is cartilage, but it's safe to assume all dinos had one

[woeful falcon]

Avian means bird

[little mauve]

a croc bellow is also low frequency, as low as 19 Hz has been recorded, I imagine it was a similar dynamic for dinosaurs

[bronze pendant]

The American Alligator for instance has a particular auditory call where they clap their jaws: sounds like a car accident. I've since imagined Tyrannosaurids communicated similarly 🤷‍♂️

[ripe ruin]

A better clarification would be to give the line where non avian ends and avian starts

[jagged trellis]

uhhh Birb is the line, you're welcome

[ripe ruin]

Which I think is avialans?? Pls correct me on that

[little mauve]

It's debated, some say dromaeosaurs, others troodontids, others archaeopteryx

[covert lintel]

personally i consider avialans to be birds but i'm not sure whether or not that's the generally agreed upon cut-off point. there's probably some people out there who only refer to animals in aves as birds

[little mauve]

We're talking about evolution, so that line is always going to be hazy

[ripe ruin]

What I tend to see is avialans as the more agreed upon group
With the occasional debate on troodontids and/dromeaosaurs but not often

[little mauve]

well avialans would technically be considered within the avian side of things

but just barely, it's safe to consider them the line

[woeful falcon]

Birds are avialans. Not all avialans are birds. And it goes further down.

[glad gorge]

any new papers on anomalocaris (or other radiodonts)?

[sudden wind]

We cannot really say what dinosaurs did and didn't do as vocalization. It likely is much more complex than what we think it'd be. Though, as far as we know of, dinosaurs likely didn't roar in the same manner as pantherines do (as they evolved a very special sound box). Roaring though is a vocalization heard in crocodiles.

[glad gorge]

ah

[little mauve]

Gator-like hissing with the resonance of a multi-ton body would be something to hear

[heady thunder]

Mongolian Tarbosaurus throatsinging.

[bronze pendant]

The bass on that bellow though 😳 Blow your windows out 🤣
Take the air out of your lungs ☠️

[little mauve]

You'd feel it in your bones & gut, infrasound can spark feelings of terror and panic in mammals and I don't wonder why

[bronze pendant]

10/10 Home Owners Associations do NOT approve of Tarbosaurus throat singing 😐

[little mauve]

Gotta read the fine print, my tarbo is free range and will not tolerate a muzzle

[heady thunder]

What are they gonna do, take it? Its a tarbo.

[bronze pendant]

https://tenor.com/view/come-and-get-them-molon-labe-gif-15211828

[little mauve]

Good luck! Doesn't even listen to me, just kind of stares... and drools.... 🤷‍♂️

[glad gorge]

omg-

[little mauve]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHg0TTqkO5A hiss is at ~30 second mark, this isn't even a big gator & it makes a very big sound

[jagged trellis]

bro tempting fate to prove a point

[compact leaf]

we also know it varied a lot between different groups, the lambeosaurines in particular were changing it up a lot even within their own group

[chilly knot]

Crocs have cool vocalizations

[heady thunder]

My stomach at 3AM be like.

[chilly knot]

The gentlemen having a civil convo
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/801233640641789973/968364786867925012/My_Movie_461.mov

[little mauve]

Yeah every headcrest was like a different musical instrument, must have sounded amazing

[compact leaf]

sauropods with big noses like brachiosaurids and camarasaurids were also probably doing some neat stuff with vocalization

[little mauve]

They might have been like walking giant bagpipes with that respiratory and air sac system too

at the very least, insane resonance behind that potential nose power

[compact leaf]

yeah with that much lung power and a resonating chamber to boot they were probably loud

[little mauve]

a lot of that resonance would be going into the ground and conducted even further than via the air, with low frequency sensitivity they could hear each other through their feet potentially at vast distances

[sudden wind]

Other examples :
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/697869175829561366/1088294391518593054/trim.496E8CD5-54E8-4DAD-ADAD-D7BF8FB56E50.mov
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/697869175829561366/1088291575467089960/trim.0D8B4010-7401-42E4-A273-67C3BCFCA4DF.mov
https://youtu.be/TWr79QTXlms

[little mauve]

second one is just starting his engine

[bronze pendant]

Props to the cameraman who captured this, great example of spring-time mating behavior:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIxl10Qvgw8
Notice where the balance of detectable signature is made, it's meant to be felt as much as heard.

[little mauve]

The water dance is one of the coolest things in nature

like parallel subwoofers under the water

[frozen basin]

The amount of variety within crocodilian vocalization is really fascinating

[bronze pendant]

Anyways, yes, the audible calls across the diversified range of Dinosauria was probably spectacular 👍

[heady thunder]

Thousand species worth of calls was definitely amazing.

[little mauve]

plus the huge variety of Mesozoic insects, crocs, amphibians, pterosaurs, & avialans all croaking, calling, chirping, etc. Amazing soundscape for sure

[scenic flame]

when I saw the cross section in the one paper it looked more dense

[little mauve]

here's the graphical cross sections from that paper. Spinosaurus does appear denser than Hippopotamus

[frigid coral]

hold the phone
does that mean

spinosaurus hippo theory is real

[little mauve]

I wouldn't go that far, not by a long shot, but it did have dense bones

[wind prairie]

what is the general consensus right now about whether or not apatosaurines had back spines?

[jagged trellis]

ah so spino is denser than me confirmed?!1!!!?!!1!1!!+

[bronze pendant]

I've always thought those were liberal applications of paleo-art freedom 🤷‍♂️ I've never seen fossilized evidence of them, but I've never looked deep for them either . . .

[wind prairie]

there is fossilized evidence of them on diplodocus itself iirc

[tough parcel]

No, on an animal related to Diplodocus, likely Kaatedocus

[wind prairie]

ahh

but yeah, I see most art portray apatosaurines like bronto without spines, and some with them. What's more likely as of now?

[bronze pendant]

I remember some Hadrosaurs being discovered with dermal spines, but never Diplodocus. I think like feathers, the application gets broadly associated to an entire genus because of a singular obscure find. I recall one discovery of dermal spines associated to an "unknown" Diplodocid 🤷‍♂️

[bright veldt]

It’s healthy speculation honestly, since we know they were present in at least some diplodocids.

[bronze pendant]

Frustrating thing about skin impressions are they get so easily destroyed during recovery.

[wind prairie]

also, what is the likelihood of the other psittacosaurus species having quills?

[frigid coral]

fairly likely

[tough parcel]

Likely, but not likely at the same time. Integument varies between species heavily (“Ubijara” and Compy) so some species might have had quills, some might have not

[wind prairie]

btw, how many toes did taco have on the ground? Was it just the 3 like normal or the dewclaw as well like in theri and spino

[light osprey]

Oh my bad I read that as psittacosaurus Mongoliensis lol

[bronze pendant]

That thing looks like it's from Tatooine.

[vast narwhal]

Spinosaurus the most controversial dinosaur in paleontology history

[wind prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-plankton-alright-i-get-it-i-get-it-enough-gif-19558825

[scenic elk]

Guys what’s was Quetz flying speed again

[bright veldt]

Can cruise at 70 mph and fly at over 100

[river citrus]

damn that fast

[tepid grotto]

watch PoT make it butterfly speed

[river citrus]

fr

[woeful falcon]

Quetz isn't planned for PoT

[ripe ruin]

Ur right
Fat quetz is

[small dagger]

And thal could likely have been faster lol, shame that it’s so slow ingame in flight

[twin tapir]

Watch it be made a Piscivore

Or maybe a skim feeder

[small dagger]

What sucks more is that when you make suggestions for accuracy the devs never act in it even though they said they would be accurate

[woeful falcon]

Nevermind that its twice its size in game than in life

[bright veldt]

Part of the reason for their high speed is their size so likely not lol

[small dagger]

Why is thal so slow ingame?

[elfin pulsar]

Using momentum it’s the single fastest thing in game, but ye only sprint-flying looks weird with the speed

[nocturne cairn]

w/ momentum it's fast but it's a balance decision, if it could fly as fast as it could irl then it'd be pretty strong overall. prob why Hatz will be nowhere near as fast as it could've been irl

[lilac vale]

That’s what mods are for, several I can think of that add very accurate dinosaurs into the game.

[jagged trellis]

there is the problem of devs claiming for accuracy and then....not doing it

[lilac vale]

I mean at least all the theropods have lips and correct wrist orientation

[jagged trellis]

is that really the bar though, having their hands be normal and having a basic body function, no one is talking about the plates being 2 inches off or lambs healing call because they are fine and work, but man when they make em entirely different stuff is the problem

[lilac vale]

Path of titans seems to be the most accurate out of all the paleo games I’ve played, save for PK. Yeah I wish it was more accurate but if the devs won’t there’s nothing we can do

[woeful falcon]

Gonna level with y'all, I think complaining that Thalasso isn't a flying missile shouldn't even be an accuracy concern. This is a video game, not a dinosaur documentary. Its also important to note that accuracy wasn't in relation to every single aspect we could possibly know, and after the accuracy comment it mentioned feathers and semi aquatics. I think its plain to see what the accuracy claim was in relation to.

You know what isn't perfectly accurate? Pycnonemosaurus. Or these animals even living together. Thalassodromeus's size. Choose smarter battles to wage

[jagged trellis]

pretty sure bob has gotten their game up recently and whats its name saurian, and clearly pk, and they are doing something but leaving out certain ones feels off esp seeing how they tend to be the bigger problems

[lilac vale]

I’m not part of the Thal missile convo lol

[jagged trellis]

same, thal being a missile is funny atleast and doesn't go against their own stuff, i'm talking about the actual things

[lilac vale]

Just commission Darren Naish to make a paleo accurate survival game, that’d be perfect. Or better yet a collaboration of a bunch of high end paleontologists. God I wish I could move to whatever parallel timeline that happened in.

[jagged trellis]

or let this game fulfill their word on it and not have debates over it

[neat drum]

BoB and Saurian are way more accurate than PoT, PK is the most accurate behavior wise and generally more accurate looks wise

[lilac vale]

BoB doesn’t have lips tho does it? The acro looked like it didn’t in gameplay I saw of it

[neat drum]

its got lips now

[jagged trellis]

BoB is making a playable snake and it looks GOOD, so they are def doing the most rn it seems

[neat drum]

its not perfect still either but its not uh...lipped theropod anatomy plesiosaur levels of bad

[compact leaf]

BoB is also going back and updating their older models

[woeful falcon]

Name one, just out of curiosity. There are plenty but I want to know one you're thinking of

[lilac vale]

Tho for me PoT satisfies my thirst for accuracy with mods, courtesy of KTO, PT, JFD etc

[woeful falcon]

Excluding kai that one is obvious

[neat drum]

thal is p rough and not great on the visual side of things

yeah its technically accurate...kinda like how if you un-pronated the JP rex's hands it would be /accurate/ its very underfloofed and looks a bit thin in certain areas, the wings dont close up properly, the eyes bug out of the skull in a rodentlike fashion, and the keratinized nares move

[jagged trellis]

kai- oh, metri and rex are in that zone, sty and bars are deformed but not that bad, others would be bias and then a few just being outdated, playstyle is another story but the only ones id say is the actual problem are kai and thal just being eurhino and rhamp but not

[neat drum]

oh yeah metri doesn't look anything like metri, its arguably worse than kai

bars and sty are p terrible but thats a gray area because of model age

metriacanthosaurids have very reduced arms, tyrannosaur levels of reduced with some outliers rivalling the abelisaurs

so metri's arms are entirely too big, the head is off a bit too, the proportions are off a bit too, legs should be a lil shorter, etc.

[woeful falcon]

Abelisaurs, well now that sounds hyperbolic

[lilac vale]

Spinosaurus tho

[woeful falcon]

What metriacanthosaurid has arms comparable to an abelisaurid

[neat drum]

the yang by KTO mods has proportions more in line with how metri should be

[woeful falcon]

A beaut

[lilac vale]

They should’ve picked Yang in the first place because metri is fragmentary

Also how’s Pangea Survival in terms of accuracy

[elfin pulsar]

The perk owner picking metri was such an L

[bright veldt]

Eh not quite.

[woeful falcon]

Old and cringe

Newer and based? (Imagine the torso one vert longer)

[bright veldt]

That one ain't even done and the proportions are still about the same

[modern temple]

Now we’ll just get yang but with bigger arms

[woeful falcon]

I mean if you want to pretend that its not basically complete be my guest but Justice's is outdated and even canned by the artist themselves. Does the job of showing the known elements though.

And either way you slice it, much smaller arms than PoT's.

[sterile knoll]

I think the main reason it has huge arms in game is because of its claw attack. Since there's no fossils of metri's arms, they took artistic liberty with it. The same way they took artistic liberty for making pycno into a carno clone.

[woeful falcon]

Oh I know why it has huge arms I was just saying they would be smaller than how they are in game based on our understanding of metriacanthosaurids

[sterile knoll]

👍

[woeful falcon]

I personally dislike pycno more than metri for that reason

[sterile knoll]

Same here

[storm heron]

We lack the arms of Metriacanthosaurus, and Sinraptor as well. While we do have arms of Yangchuanosaurus, which indicates proportionally small arms, proportions can change within genera (We see this multiple times).

So while Metriacanthosaurus, can have small arms, they can also have big arms as well.

[sterile knoll]

On the topic of bad designs, let's talk about pachy eating meat and how much of a missed opportunity there was with how its diet could've been the most unique in the game.

[white matrix]

This is not Isle 😩 pachy here is.. pretty bland in a way, but very nice sound design.

[sterile knoll]

Pachy has teeth that are similar to canines right? Well, those teeth are situated further back in the mouth which would make meat consumption difficult for the animal in large quantities, but you wanna know what other animal has a similar teeth plan to pachy?

[woeful falcon]

Sure. But in the conversation of accuracy, best to restore metri referencing material of its relatives until more material is uncovered. Just look at Spinosaurus's depictions on that note

[white matrix]

Spinofaarus 😳

[neat drum]

every time spinofaarus is mentioned from here on out, ima go destroy a scientifically important fossil

👀 i'll start with Sue

[white matrix]

Noooo

[sterile knoll]

Camels. Camels are desert specialists and their teeth are specially designed for consuming tough and spiky plants. In particular, camels are experts at eating cacti. If there was just a little more thought put into pachy's diet, we could've had the first desert specialist in the game, which would've gone well with the release of Gondwa. (I actually thought that's where they were going with pachy when they first teased it).

[bright veldt]

Metri isn't trying to capitalize off the name of another taxa

[white matrix]

Last time I tried eating a cactus.. haven’t ended up well for me.

[sterile knoll]

Just saying, instead of a strictly carnivorous pachy, it would've actually made more sense to make it have a unique diet rather than copying and pasting one they already had.

[iron lake]

fr camels will eat cacti bc their extremely hard palate can crush the spikes down so they won’t damage their internal organs, but they still get spines stuck in their lips!! ouch lmao

[storm heron]

In terms of arms, Spinosaurus recons have varied arm proportions: they have these large arms or proportionally "small" arms (Oho, in the past, they were commonly given very large arms). So there is room for interpretation in taxa that lack arm material.

[wind prairie]

omnivore pachy needs to die, I don't know where it came from but it's dumb

[sterile knoll]

I agree with that. Although the idea did come from a scientific study, it was just that. An idea. The only evidence used to suggest this idea was because they had teeth that looked similar to a carnivore. That being said, it's possible that pachy did it meat from time to time like some modern herbivores do. However, in game, pachy doesn't function or play like an omnivore like the devs intended it to. The scavenger ability only allows for consumption of meat and bones, while the herbivore ability only allows pachy to eat water melons and berries. There is no crossover during gameplay like we see with normal omnivores.

[inland thunder]

i honestly fear sucho

[woeful falcon]

I wasn't talking about its arms I was talking about its legs. And I suppose, the tail as well. Just generally early 2000's, Spinosaurus took after baryonychines. That is how we understood Spinosaurids to look those days. Likewise, you Metriacanthosaurus restorations would be based on our understanding of its relatives.

[wind prairie]

many, many herbivores have teeth "similar to carnivores" people seem to forget that sharp teeth also help shear up tough plants as well

[neat gale]

real talk: why does deinocherius not eat waterbased plantlife in PoT

[lilac vale]

More accurate than PoT’s theropods?

[woeful falcon]

That's a wide variety to compare it to, and BoB Acro ain't perfect neither.

Their Tyrannosaurus on the other hand, I'm a fan

[tough parcel]

Good thing everything’s getting remodeled (I am their new modeler, my inspiration is David Peters)

[woeful falcon]

Could you imagine, david peters based dinosaur game

[rose thorn]

That’s just because of how the ability system works now. It doesn’t remove the fact that they made the playable omnivorous, even if they can’t eat both at the same time in officials at least. On community servers where sleep ability change is allowed, you can switch between meat n plants

[jagged trellis]

wouldn't call it a omnivore, its either a vegan or chugging bacon down but never at the same time

[rose thorn]

But also also, the idea of Pachy being a desert specialist akin to a camel is honestly more out there than the idea of it eating small animals or eggs or bones (like practically all herbivorous animals do in at least small doses. Giraffes will casually swallow bones for the phosphorus) when Hell Creek had no cactus adjacent plants.

[rose thorn]

That still counts as an omnivore. Pachy isn’t making a fuckin chicken salad

[jagged trellis]

omnivore is being able to eat both at the same time is the whole thing, it cannot do that ingame seeing how its literally either a meat eater or a plant eater, never both

if i'm vegan half my life then suddenly eat only meat i'm not a omnivore now am i?

also they did have omnivore diets before, as in actual ones like being able to eat shellfish and stuff yeah for the ceratopsids or something like that, unless those were just 1 stop shop ordeals like rn

[rose thorn]

Omnivore just means the animal can freely eat plants or animal matter, doesn’t mean it has to be at the exact same time. Pachy or Deinocherius isn’t making a salad with everything in it that they can eat. The diet split is simply a game mechanic. It doesn’t remove the fact that if you want fish you just sleep n switch, or with a bush you do vice versa…I feel like arguing this is as arbitrary as you can get.

They’re omnivorous, but for “balancing” you just pick which one you wanna run at the given moment

Hell, I don’t see anyone arguing that herbivore diet should actually just be labeled frugivore since all you eat on that diet is berries and melons

[jagged trellis]

if we ignore needing a homecave for most of the whole changing diets it still isn't really being a omnivore beyond the option of one or the other, never both its a omni choice but not a raw omnivore feel like is the best way to put it, and if we talking balance they could just give it high drain or more specifics, and probably because frugivore is a much more niche term seeing how omnivore is pretty much eat anything organic

[woeful falcon]

sure is paleo chat out here

smuck become a backer so we can have this talk in backer chat and not general

[jagged trellis]

but this feels like one of those things that will go in circles, so the reasoning behind a 2 headed animal is a sister cell/child/whatever ya wanna call it being absorbed or something improperly yeah and gets more difficult with stuff like mammals and birds, so i wonder how often it'd be for dinos beyond birbs, also ignoring they die after awhile apart from like...4

[rose thorn]

No. Backers are stinki

[woeful falcon]

imagine if we found a fossil dinosaur with this

absolutely astronomically rare and basically impossible, but just imagine

[covert lintel]

it'd probably be an embryo or very young hatchling, which in itself would be an awesome find since those don't preserve very often at all

[woeful falcon]

two birds with one stone, except the stone is an egg, and the two birds are conjoined

[pearl briar]

any idea of metriacanthosaurida like metri and yangchuano's weapon?

[woeful falcon]

Their mouth probably. At least for yang. Huge head.

[rose thorn]

Mouth and arms. Reduced armage ≠ useless armage

[slim ridge]

Yeah mostly the head, it’s still the most obvious and far reaching weapon they have.

[chilly knot]

Exactly

Yang is also overall pretty different morphology wise from other metracanthosaurids

[pearl briar]

what is the most up-to-date mosa length and weight?

[bright veldt]

12 meters and 10 tons

[pearl briar]

any posibilities for 13 meters mosa?

[vast narwhal]

No.

[pearl briar]

....
too late 🫠

[heady thunder]

Always make the animal bigger for chad points.

[warm temple]

Sometimes I imagine that some ankylosaur cant flip back their body and just dies of exhaustion because of it

[little karma]

Is it possible ? The only animals that have this problem as far as I know are tortoise

[vast narwhal]

What can flip an ankylosaurus tho, being flipped over isn't a problem for the large tortoise

[jagged trellis]

another ankylosaurus

[little karma]

And possibly the environment

[hallow shell]

My dad

[heady thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/indominus-gif-25195062

[vast narwhal]

Where

[jagged trellis]

destroyed in seconds, dear lord thats brutal

[bronze pendant]

It's still a problem for big tortoises, no different than smaller ones: tortoises have developed techniques to right themselves for sure, but the viability of these I place at about 60% effectiveness. However cute it is watching fellow tortoises right a goofball friend gone inverted, in captivity we would usually permit 3-5 minutes of struggle before a keeper intervened.

As it pertains to Ankylosaurids, the tanky Dinosaurs could obviously benefit a great deal by their large, heavy tail, to swing in order to build momentum to right themselves. Tortoises by comparison often only have their long necks to pivot off of. But I can't overemphasize the cuteness of a Red Footed Tortoise waving it's tiny legs in the air in a hopeless attempt to right itself 🤣

[heady thunder]

Oh yeah, the tail would probably be great help.

[little mauve]

Would be very interesting to see that modeled with some real physics, similar to the tail-as-a-weapon studies. I could see being flipped as a potential problem for ankylosaurs and we know their tails were strong as anything, maybe it was an important secondary function

[bronze pendant]

Just thinking out loud: but the tail could be swung in circles to create a gyroscope effect, making the animal stabilized on all fours, and even more difficult to overturn by virtue of physics 🤷‍♂️ But more practically I think it would be swung in order to produce momentum when overturned to right the animal. But a gyroscope hypothesis wouldn't be out of the question, although I'm unfamiliar with an extant creature that can do the same 🤔

[jagged trellis]

me, oh wait that requires a shell, darn, lemme go find one at the walmart nearby

[little mauve]

The gyroscope effect is a veeeery interesting idea. And yeah exactly, extremely qualified comparison would be like a horseshoe crab using its tail for leverage to get on one side- even digging in the stiffened distal end somewhat for added oomph

[vast narwhal]

Yeah that was a stretch what I said but personally I've never seen a fully grown galapagos tortoise flipped over

[jagged trellis]

horseshoe crabs have been around almost as long as Mr.Krabs so they do have some tricks up their sleeves, also don't they got special blood or something that folks go nuts over

[vast narwhal]

Their blood is super important for us, it makes vaccines possible

[jagged trellis]

thats something a ritual hoster would say

but also ah interesting, didn't know that

[bronze pendant]

A lot of it depends on the tortoises' personality and habitat. Small tortoises for example are actually eager climbers and are more accustomed to rollovers, Galapagos and Aldabra not so much. You would sooner see the giant tortoises righted by a fellow herd mate.

[neat drum]

if ankylosaurs flipped they could prob use their stiff tails and head to push themselves over

but the odds of one flipping on its own is likely nil

[bronze pendant]

Perhaps a stretch, but I don't see Ankylosaurs being the type of animal that intentionally put itself at risk of flipping over. But many would say that about tortoises 🤷‍♂️ I'm firmly in the camp Ankys didn't spend much time upside down 😐

[wind prairie]

I heard that there's evidence of thescelosaurus being fully scaly, is that true?

[flat pond]

Meanwhile I wait for nodosaurs to be in dinosaur games (Denversaurus does count but it’s sadly not playable). Sure they are just ankylosaurs without the club but they can exist with ankylosaurs since they have more selective diets.

[sudden wind]

Gameplay wise, Nodosaure could also be decently different.

[heady thunder]

I have basically no knowledge on nodosaurs except them being ankylosaurs without the cool clubs, how do they differ besides that?

[tough parcel]

It’s not true

[wind prairie]

ok since then I was told only its legs are known to be scaly

[tough parcel]

Not true either feathers don’t preserve well in the HCF (if at all lmao) so it’s impossible to determine

[woeful falcon]

Wouldn't it be fairer to say evidence of scale impressions

[bronze pendant]

Who is telling you this? And did they provide you greater or lesser amounts of evidence than strangers on a video game discord channel? I might encourage you to find the answers you seek at a museum, speaking with staff or the curator. They love to take questions. Also, spring time is coming: All field work and exploratories are taking volunteers 👍

[heady thunder]

Based answer ngl.

[tough parcel]

(Also keep in mind, staff and curators have opinions too, some not necessarily correct. They are not the end-all, be-all on issues)

[bronze pendant]

💯 But the same could be said of you or I 🤷‍♂️ The difference is a Curator for example will be able to provide evidence, or connect you with somebody more knowledgable 👍

[tough parcel]

DePalma isn’t exactly the best in this either :p (speaking in “more knowledgeable” in this case)

[bronze pendant]

But that's a very good point: Scientists and researchers have opinions, too. It's important for people to distinguish opinion from proven fact or testable hypothesis.

[flat pond]

Nodosaurs had much more selective diets compared to ankylosaurs, meaning that they didn’t eat every plant they saw but had a particular preference for specific plants.

[kindred night]

There is evidence for scaly Thescelosaurus but DePalma isn't a reliable source nor evidence for it

Hypotheses can't be made on fossils kept private locked in a glorified strip mall safe

[bronze pendant]

You talking about private collections?

[kindred night]

I'm speaking on private collections and someone who has a history of data fabrication and academic misconduct.

[jagged trellis]

ah big words, can't be me then good to know

[flat pond]

For example, Ankylosaurus and Denversaurus lived at the same place and the same time but had their ranges and ecological niches didn’t overlap with each other enough to have them somewhat coexist with each other, though Ankylosaurus may have preferred upland areas.

[bronze pendant]

Private collections are a problem, but toxic academics are supposed to be naturally weeded out . . . emphasis on *supposed * to be 🤷‍♂️

[heady thunder]

So, just them being picky over ankys not caring, thats neat.

[kindred night]

DePalma is able to worm his way in with his family's pretty large wealth and influence but he's starting to get kicked out.

[flat pond]

Yeah. Plus the well known Borealpelta specimen was found to have ferns and charcoal in its stomach, meaning they can take advantage of new growth after a forest fire.

[bronze pendant]

I thought that was a really exciting discovery: it not only provided us diet information, but a glimpse into the animal's ecology as well.

[flat pond]

Yeah. It really tells a lot of what an animal eats, which is really exciting when you don’t know much about them.

[heady thunder]

Yeah thats cool, borealpelta was insanely well preserved from what Ive heard.

[flat pond]

It is. From what it’s colors were to the placement of its osteoderms to what was the last thing that it ate before it died.

[heady thunder]

Lil guy, ate some charcoal then became a mummy, sadge

[flat pond]

A good reconstruction of it.

[heady thunder]

Nodosaurs remind me of a dino toy I had, same body plan and everything, except a crocodile style mouth and head.

[flat pond]

Well good thing there are better figures out there now.

[heady thunder]

Yeah, think I still got the figure, Ill check and compare how science has progressed.

[rose thorn]

Never heard that, why come?

[tough parcel]

The environment is just not based enough

[rose thorn]

Smh. Become literally anywhere in China

[dusky dome]

Why did concavenator have that weird part on its back

[heady thunder]

Evolution baby

[dusky dome]

Yeah but what is it for

[heady thunder]

We dont know, probably display or smth.

[small geyser]

To fit into Ichthyovenator (jk)

[heady thunder]

Nah no jokes there, they worked together to form the ultimate beyblade.

[slim ridge]

If you want a rlly good example of Similar animals coexisting in the same environment feeding on practically the same thing, then the African Savannah is a good one.
Several species of Gazelle, Zebra etc feed on grass, but only very specific parts of the grass. The first species eats only the tips of fresh grass, the second only the middle part and the third the bottoms.
Then the other species do a similar thing with dry grasses.
It’s genuinely amazing

Niche partitioning goes hard

[pearl briar]

nemegt formation question: is there any posibilities for deinocheirus vs therizinosaurus?

[heady thunder]

Weird gazelles ngl, why not eat all of the grass, probably cos the grass is taller, but whatever works for them i guess.

[jagged trellis]

just play jwe2 in a day or a modded PoT server, boom( ||but for real, i don't know||)

[neat drum]

also the fact that its generally quite hard for herbivores to outcompete other herbivores without harming themselves in the long term

[tough parcel]

If you want a dino battle, I don't see why they couldn't fight. Contemporary and similarly sized

[sudden wind]

They lack clubs as a whole: they both lack the handle and the hammer. Nodosaurs also usually are higher limb-ed than their cousins Ankylosaurids. They show much more developed osteoderms on their shoulder.

The diet can also vary a lot but that's generally something common in Ankylosaurians from genus to genus. You can have multiple species of Ankylosaurs in a same environment exploiting different resources.

[static lantern]

Anyone know how tall the tallest ancient trees got?

[jagged trellis]

tall

[pearl briar]

.....
theri and deino both dislikes each other

[wind prairie]

I see no reason why theri and deino would fight often, don't they eat completely different things?

[rose thorn]

I mean, it could, and I'm sure did, happen. While they may have fed differently, I could see a Theri coming across a cherius while wandering through a marsh. Big birds can come into conflict with each other over just about anything from nesting to food to space. So I imagine a mother or father Deinocherius wouldn't be too keen on a Theri getting close simply due to parental instinct. The Theri, put on the defense, is gonna splay its claws and what not.

Turkeys fight with chickens
Geese fight with swans
So on and so on

[frigid coral]

maybe, but rarely

they have 0 reason to fight and likely lived in completely different areas, ate different food, and had completely different specializations

geese and swans, turkey and chickens, etc fight because they live very close together and eat similar food

[little mauve]

Equivalent heights to modern redwoods were not uncommon in Mesozoic conifers. So up to 300 feet or so potentially? I forget what the record is for sequoia

Coastal redwoods can get 115 meters, so close to 400 feet was certainly possible and probably not rare with growing conditions back then, pristine ecosystems, etc

[nocturne gazelle]

Depends on if either one had a hippo attitude then...

[bright peak]

I would say they probably interacted, they both lived in the same time around 70 million years ago in late cretacious with fossils being discovered in modern day Asia in the nemegt basin (golbi desert mongolia) so they probably lived very close to eachother and probably interacted so I'd say yeah there's probably a high possibility it happened just because of the millions of years they've existed its had to have happened before.

[hasty wharf]

Ha

[hasty wharf]

Modded quetzal tho (I think so)

Yeah

Yey Happi

[wind prairie]

what was this god forsaken noodle of a tail used for

[lilac vale]

What is that

[stoic tinsel]

most likely not since they held different niche

[stoic tinsel]

leaellynasaura

[woeful falcon]

I hear it might not actually be that long or something. I can't quite remember what it was

[wind prairie]

??

[woeful falcon]

alright was trying to look up what exactly was the case and I knew it was talked about here and this^ was all I could find in relation lol

[wind prairie]

aahh

so it's not properly designated as leaelly's tail yet, but it's most likely that so people just say it is?

[woeful falcon]

I can't comment on the likelihood. I can't even comment on if that statement is true. its all based on memory which I am especially poor with lol.

but I'm under the impression that its just a case of, the tail exists, its not attributed to anything, but people restore leallynasaura with it

or at least Patch did. but again, my memory fails me.

[past comet]

Yes it’s currently not included with leallyn but it does exist which makes one wonder

[slim ridge]

It’s been said before but Geese and Swans feed on similar food items and desire similar nesting spaces being both waterfowl, same with Coots, as they come near each other’s nesting spaces and food sources frequently.
Chickens and turkeys have a similar think going on, tho in the wild they wouldn’t do this given that they naturally don’t live together outside of human influence.
Perhaps they had minor squabbles if one went to drink water and came across a parent with young, but that’s very unlikely to end in a fight, and yeah encounters would likely be minimal given their respective preferences.

[woeful falcon]

I think when concocting any versus scenario to look at it from the lens of them being animals, their behavior animalistic. Did they fight? probably. were said fights full blown death matches or brawling for the sake of it? I don't think so. I like to think of them as situational conflicts rather than "x vs y"

[storm heron]

^

[slim ridge]

Aye, most fights are animals doing threat displays, hissing and perhaps a quick snap where one party backs off quickly as it would rather not deal with that.

[pearl briar]

istg if someone said "Only in Ohio" 🤓🤡
https://twitter.com/FabioAleRomero/status/1639694923225071622?t=-QZuif_aYYfCVQBobva3CQ&s=19

Fabio Alejandro (@FabioAleRomero)

Okay now that I made the skeletal of Titanichthys its time to show up the whole body reconstruction, using the current size calculations specified by Engelman (2023) turned out that the largest specimen might have been around 4.1 m in lenght

Likes

400

Twitter · Mar 25, 2023, 6:25 PM

[kind narwhal]

Purassaurs fans

[pearl briar]

what is the most up-to-date elasmo length and weight?

[rose thorn]

This is essentially a more winded version of what I said. I merely said turkeys n chickens as a prominent example to come to mind. While they likely preferred different areas (we're not particularly sure where Theri was hanging out, but high browser is definitely the easiest label to slap him with, so woodland area probably) overlap and conflict of interest isn't impossible.

[sturdy solstice]

If ya’ll haven’t heard an Australian meat company has just made a meatball using Mammoth proteins and sheep cells. Link to the article below:

https://lm.facebook.com/l.php?u=https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/giant-meatball-extinct-mammoth-unveiled-netherlands-2023-03-28/?fbclid%3DIwAR16uzOnztSTpzbY5KYiiBvJipiIoe-1xlxOjvFm7RACENoXsNmnHcK1AZ4&h=AT0Tck3co1hgT9KGQPMfvKxgnVBfbyJyRm_pBPlbWtWqNrT32_kD5bseTOss5RnpkX0C-iUe-jD-Tm779FSqyNGpzxAEjsHJjuTE8AnJ4If_j0i7_yVZiZc30a8l5fBlImjRPxbvH23T_fw&s=1&mibextid=ncKXMA

[silk rivet]

Our race is messed up beyond belief

[sturdy solstice]

Honestly yeah it doesn’t even look appetizing. It looks like a dung beetle took a mammoth turd and rolled it into a ball.

[frozen basin]

Fr

[slim ridge]

It isn’t entirely impossible no, but aside from very specific situations, such encounters are generally unlikely/uncommon.

[white matrix]

So messed up lol.

[river citrus]

sounds like a human thing to do

[jagged trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/fist-fight-film-charlie-day-im-sorry-what-excuse-me-gif-6046518

[white matrix]

Totally.

[bronze pendant]

Probably not going to find another use for mammoth proteins, likely hood of resurrecting them grows dimmer by the day: we got activists trying to murder our Moose now, because, big animal eats too much grass - bad for the environment 🤦‍♂️

[river citrus]

who else but humans trying to kill everything

[jagged trellis]

dolphins but they don't kill always, they uhhhhhhhhhhhhh do stuff

[river citrus]

like what stuff

[jagged trellis]

questionable stuff to say the least

[bronze pendant]

Like a dog that hasn't been neutered stuff . . .

[rich flame]

They do things that we could be arrested for

[tough parcel]

I think dolphin rap has been exaggerated to a heavy point, especially due to Casual Geographic. Iirc not many dolphins do it with it being a specific population using fish to get high too

[jagged trellis]

dunno esp seeing how they also tried humans abit as well( which was kinda our fault as well for keeping em captive and doing all sorts of stuff in that case) but they aren't the only ones i will say

[bitter oasis]

I understand how this conversation got to this point but lets keep the chat on paleo topics please

[jagged trellis]

atleast you understand, thank you for atleast being nice about it, anyways whats its name the super preserved ankylosaurid who was red

[tough parcel]

Borealopelta

[bronze pendant]

I don't even know how the conversation got here myself . . . my head is kind of spinning 😅

[jagged trellis]

ah thanks, anyways beyond the color and general bones of it, what else was preserved? since ive tried searching it for all of 2 seconds but got nothing beyond: R E D

[bronze pendant]

I think Borealopelta was the really cool, partially mummified, fossil found in a Canadian quarry.

[wary heath]

why

[tough parcel]

Stomach contents iirc too

[sturdy solstice]

Read the the article and that’ll answer your question

[stiff osprey]

He was forced to eat charcoal when he was 5 (meters)

[hallow spear]

i too like eating charcoal daily

[frigid coral]

made a paleo meme of it, can’t share it though cause rules

[junior dawn]

Lippers won
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abo7877

[frigid coral]

after all these years

[wind prairie]

what eating charcoal does to a mf

[slate hull]

Эйййййй

[bright veldt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/690270759079378964/1091059609399206010/science.png

[slate hull]

Я руслааааааанннн эйййй

[bright veldt]

No lips has always been a biased viewpoint so I appreciate that there’s actual literature saying the obvious now.

[slate hull]

Чоооо.?????? :LatenL

OL:

[wind prairie]

100% sure nobody would complain if all of the dinosaurs in JP1 had lips

[bright veldt]

Exactly

[wind prairie]

which is why nobody complains about lipped dromaeosaurs lmao

[last iron]

Mfw people say that accurate dinosaurs aren’t scary

[river citrus]

just the small ones had lips in jp1

[wind prairie]

you can see one raptor's lips curling up in the kitchen scene

[bright veldt]

Still wouldn’t make sense to why such a change in facial tissue would happen with size. The lipless thing breaks down once you actually look at theropoda as a whole and see how dumb it is when applied to other taxa most people just subconsciously assume are lipped

[deft sigil]

Hello, this channel is for the discussion of paleo related topics, however other topics can be discussed here #русский if you so desire

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/vergil-gif-14400974

[bright veldt]

Lipless therizinosaurs anyone?

[wind prairie]

I've always thought that lipless dinosaurs looked dumb anyway, makes them look less aware. They're more personable and cool looking with lips....
now the next debate, still reptile lips or movable mammal lips 💀

[last iron]

Monitor lizard lips

[bright veldt]

Basically. That one’s less of a debate.

[wind prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-emoji-dies-gif-21956120

[tough parcel]

https://twitter.com/TomHoltzPaleo/status/1641506214222651410

Incredibly rare Holtz L

Thomas R. Holtz, Jr. 🦖💕 (he/him) (@TomHoltzPaleo)

@LordTrilobite On its boopable snoot, sure. Not on its lips.

Twitter · Mar 30, 2023, 6:22 PM

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abo7877

[little mauve]

awesome study! Very stoked to read this

[light osprey]

Which is actually false lol, large grazers are super important

[sudden wind]

https://twitter.com/hfclennon/status/1641503388016971777?t=ZYuiq9lQp9UeUt37Fc81fA&s=33
The amount of copping

Harry Clennon (@hfclennon)

Along with dinosaur feather revisionism, this is just another assault in the Woke war against the aesthetic of Western Civilization

Twitter · Mar 30, 2023, 6:11 PM

[last iron]

LMAO 😭

[ocean drum]

XD💀

[bright veldt]

Last guy’s joking

[wind prairie]

“Nooooo f you science for not aligning with my artificial consoomer childhood, everything woke!!1!1!”

[jagged trellis]

worst part is folks start treating the original works as being bad instead of realizing its outdated and then other folks blindly go along with it even if outdated

[bronze pendant]

No effort required to convince me, Ecology is kind of my *thing * 🤣
Believe me, many a time has my face met my palm reading a nature article espousing destroying nature . . . to save nature? 🤦‍♂️

[acoustic light]

I couldn't care less about what some random brainwashed twitter losers have to say to be honest. They can barely hold their sphincters closed most likely.

I am glad this paper finally came out.

[light osprey]

Internet is a dumpster of bad information

[bronze pendant]

If T. rex having lips rises to your threshold of wokeness, I doubt you could even spell T R E X, or point to one in a pop-up picture book. Can you imagine trying to explain to a person like this, that perhaps their favorite Dinosaur is described by a single caudal chevron? And the totality of paleo art is a brush stroke of imagination 🤣

[chilly knot]

Lipless theropods look ass, change my mind

[deft sigil]

Please remain polite and respectful towards each other and do not provoke or antagonize other users. Refer to our #rules

[bronze pendant]

mind changed 🪄
🤣

[wind prairie]

fr

[cloud dagger]

Lipless theropods just look like they have an overbite

[river citrus]

ong

[lilac vale]

It looks goofy

How I eat my burritos when I’m hungriest

[cinder jewel]

That is some incredible rex art. Assuming Mark Witton? Can't quite read the signature but it looks like his work.

[last iron]

Yes it says M witt

[cinder jewel]

http://markwitton-com.blogspot.com/2023/03/new-paper-fresh-evidence-and-novel.html?m=1

He's actually got a blogpost on it just went to check.

[little mauve]

another awesome image from the supplementary material

[small dagger]

Wait what? Something about Rex lips or mouth?

[woeful falcon]

theropod lips, a paper supporting that they had lips

[little mauve]

yep just scroll up to the discussion above or the link to witton's blog

[small dagger]

Sick

[lilac vale]

Pretty sure

[white matrix]

I do 100% believe theropods had lips. Look at modern reptiles.

[lofty notch]

Same

[white matrix]

Also lipped dinos look cute.

[wind prairie]

did australovenator ever actually live leaellynasaura?