Linux Chat

[night matrix]

I looked it up
A mod from his server did that, after someone got angry from being misgendered (as it was pointed out, the neutral pronoun still isn't common [hope it will be soon] and "he" is kinda default, moreso for us Frenchies) - Vaxry apparently agreed with him but later posted an excuse message
And then Freedesktop proceeded to ban him two years later for something that happened in _his own community _
Go figure

[agile pumice]

Oh lol

And yeah "he" is very much the default in online spaces

Though that does leave out a lot of potential context. Like did the person being misgendered ask that people use different pronouns previously? Or was it completely unprovoked? The mod who did that was obviously being childish but there could be a more reasonable explanation than just "someone got angry"

[night matrix]

Maybe maybe not

[agile pumice]

Basically sounds like everyone's at fault lol

[night matrix]

No
Vaxry posted excuses

FDO has no right to do this

[agile pumice]

Ah I guess it depends on what Vaxry said

[night matrix]

I'll have to rummage through the hypr server I guess

But not tonight (today ?)

Good night :3

[agile pumice]

lol let me know if you find anything interesting

[night matrix]

Will do

Cya

[keen leaf]

After you've spent 2 weeks configuring hyprland its time for some real productivity (watching anime)

[night matrix]

I've heard that before

[agile pumice]

That's why you use GNOME 😎

[tame lantern]

not necessarily a linux question but I figure this is the best place to ask

I cant decide whether to start using Windows 10 IoT LTSC or Windows 11

what would yall do

[agile pumice]

How do you use Windows? Are there things that you'd benefit from in Win11?

[tame lantern]

I just use it as a typical desktop OS idk what to say, I don't want any windows 11 features and like the windows 10 UI because I am used to it, and I also think the lower overhead of the IoT OS would be nice

I just don't know if any issues will arise from using it

[agile pumice]

It's definitely usable from what I've heard. I haven't used it myself, I'm in Win11 when I boot into Windows

[austere creek]

if you're not really doing anything windows dependent it should be a linux question lol

W11 is still not fleshed out entirely, if you want to stay on 10 then do so

[agile pumice]

KDE is pretty nice, the UI's similar to Windows but way more customisable

[tame lantern]

I have not gotten VR to be stable on Linux

[agile pumice]

Oh fair

[austere creek]

yes VR is a problem, requires tinkering to work especially if NVIDIA

[agile pumice]

That's a Vulkan issue, right?

[tame lantern]

it just constantly crashes and when it works it's a slideshow, I can't imagine how you could get that mess to a playable state

I really wish I could switch entirely to linux

[austere creek]

honestly things that are that broken are usually easier to identify what is messed up with it

[agile pumice]

I wouldn't suggest switching to Windows 11 if you like the Windows 10 interface. Windows 11 buries useful right-click options under submenus, and it mostly just makes getting to the options that you actually want to get to a lot longer

Especially with how slow the OS is

[austere creek]

W11 is the "obfuscate everything" update that somehow gets less performance than W10 in everything (or at least used to)

[agile pumice]

Except for ads! They don't obfuscate the ads

[tame lantern]

does my beloved control panel exist in W11

[agile pumice]

It still does, as far as I can tell

[austere creek]

no they killed it

[agile pumice]

Yes but it's harder to get to

[austere creek]

internet explorer is gone too

[agile pumice]

Oh really?

[austere creek]

it's basically empty isn't it? like it is still there but it doesn't really do much of anything anymore

[tame lantern]

ok I've decided

[agile pumice]

Well... kinda. It still exists if you get to the really old settings windows lol

[austere creek]

to the point that I had to do a registry edit because they just made a setting inaccessible at some point

[agile pumice]

Ah yeah I think you're right

[tame lantern]

I love that I can find a windows 11 UI in windows 10

[agile pumice]

Yippee

I just dual boot for games that only work on Windows

It's a little annoying because Windows hates Thunderbolt docks with a burning passion, and I haven't gotten secure boot to play nicely with Linux so I have to turn on SB when I boot Windows then turn it off again to boot Linux but it's not terrible

[austere creek]

i just gave up and realized that "wait... i can actually just play other games with equally big communities. sucks that I lose out on this one but I gain this other one" and lived happily ever after

but it's different with VR

[tame lantern]

none of the games I play require windows but theres this stupid garmin software I need that I haven't bothered getting to work in wine

[agile pumice]

You could try a VM too

Qemu with libvirt-manager is pretty good

[tame lantern]

I've actually never tried a VM in Linux

I don't see too much point of it over dual booting

[agile pumice]

Less inconvenient than rebooting for a single Garmin app

[tame lantern]

true

[austere creek]

this is why i keep a dinky laptop around

[odd moss]

I still have it

[austere creek]

does it do things?

mine is very empty and the things that are there are stripped

[odd moss]

yeah, I use it when I can't navigate the settings app

[austere creek]

i never can!

[odd moss]

I can 100% recommend https://github.com/ChrisTitusTech/winutil

great tool to clean up installs and bring back some features

it can bring back the old right click menu and other stuff

[next knoll]

I have to say one thing tho...
microsoft is actually improving the settings over time

In Win8/8.1 they were utterly useless
In Win10 they were almost utterly useless
In Win11 they're actually sometimes usable

[austere creek]

In Win7 they were perfect

[night matrix]

Iykyk

[night matrix]

LMAO

[austere creek]

it's weird

rolling release, don't update it, don't set up snapshots, don't use btrfs

what are you all doing

[agile pumice]

Yeah I don't get the point of not updating a rolling release distro

-# I use btrfs but haven't bothered setting up snapshots yet 💀

[tame lantern]

I update it all the time when I use the device

then I go a period where I dont use the device

[agile pumice]

And it... breaks?

Wait actually I'm confused how updating it breaks the system in the first place

[austere creek]

there's generally not really any breaking unless you already installed something that might break

if you only had normal Arch repositories, I doubt anything would ever break as an example

[agile pumice]

Even if you have AUR stuff, whatever package helper you're using should update system packages before AUR packages if it's any good

And if you're doing AUR packages manually then that's even harder to screw up

[austere creek]

arch should be cool and come with uutils coreutils

[night matrix]

How often should I update anyway

Also I had no idea Arch was rolling release lmao

Oh BOY I'm going to create so many scripts

[agile pumice]

I update once every couple days. It shouldn't really matter too much though, especially for official packages

[agile pumice]

That's one of the big selling points lol

[austere creek]

it's... like the only selling point

there is nothing else arch really offers

the whole point

[agile pumice]

It also offers no defaults, which is the other big selling point IMO

Otherwise you'd just use EndeavourOS or like... OpenSUSE Tumbleweed or something

[austere creek]

You can install and use OpenSUSE Tumbleweed in the same way you can with Arch

completely barebones

it offers defaults, but it has an easy and sensible way out

[agile pumice]

Honestly same with Arch, just to get the defaults you have to use the non-default archinstall script

[austere creek]

i don't like that

[night matrix]

Complete emptiness.

That's what we love

[night matrix]

Archinstall is nasty

[austere creek]

yes but like half of all other distros offer that

[night matrix]

Sure

But arch is the Chad experience

-# (and also apparently rolling release)

[austere creek]

it isn't chad experience

you get the linux kernel, systemd and pacman

[night matrix]

Yes

Chad

I didn't even have a network manager on my first install

[agile pumice]

How so? From what I've heard it seems fine?

[night matrix]

Naur
For many, it fucks up your install

It fucked up mine

[agile pumice]

Huh

Doesn't it just install packages for you?

[night matrix]

I manually installed it

Took me 2 days

[agile pumice]

How does it mess that up??

[austere creek]

i just don't like it because arch really desperately does need the gate of gatekeeping

that's been proven many times by things like manjaro and previous installers

[agile pumice]

lmao fair

[night matrix]

Yeah
It's unnecessary
That's what makes it fun

There's no objectivity behind my choice

[agile pumice]

It's not even that much gatekeeping without installers since the wiki is so extensive and useful

[austere creek]

yeah the gatekeeping is literally "can you read this and learn a little about linux"

and then a little bit of "don't just install things"

[night matrix]

Tbf I did learn plenty

-# I didn't even know the diff between HDDs and ssds

[austere creek]

what

oh oops sxorry

-# what

[agile pumice]

HDDs are liquid because SSDs are solid

[night matrix]

What

[austere creek]

liquid state drive

[agile pumice]

You don't just run your desktop off an SD card?

[austere creek]

sd card with btrfs and snapshots

to get the maximum lifetime

[agile pumice]

Ooh yeah that way you have backups in case it fails

[night matrix]

Hello

My sound drivers just fuckig died

I have no sound and I don't understand why

[austere creek]

what did you do

[night matrix]

Installed upower

That's all I have

[austere creek]

upower does a lot of things

did you read what it does beforehand?

[night matrix]

I just wanted some readings for quickshell

[agile pumice]

Is the sound service running?

[night matrix]

Uh

I guess

Wireplumber is enabled

The volume control recognizes the peripherals

[agile pumice]

So... what exactly isn't working then?

[night matrix]

I have no sound

Nothing comes out of the speakers

[next knoll]

Did you check other sound outputs?

[agile pumice]

Yeah if you have a different speaker/headphones/earbuds try those

[night matrix]

Anytime you pop in, it immediately means that I have a device that grew sentient
Funny correlations huh

[next knoll]

lmao

my desktop PC which has been running fine for 3 years just decided to start throwing random BSOD's so I'm kinda in the same boat here

[austere creek]

upower, one of the tools that controls hardware and hibernation and such

could also very well have turned everything off

i don't know if upower actually does anything on its own

but i also don't know what you've been up to

[night matrix]

I thought it was only for reading data

[agile pumice]

I assume you've already tried restarting the computer?

[night matrix]

Nothing
Just getting battery stats in qml

[night matrix]

Indeed

The boot time is so short that I can afford it

[next knoll]

have you checked which device is set to be the primary audio output?

[night matrix]

...I wish I could now but I can't access my laptop until tomorrow 😛

[next knoll]

F

[night matrix]

It's about time I get an ssh client

[next knoll]

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture/Troubleshooting

[austere creek]

doesn't the ssh command line come with windows nowadays

[agile pumice]

It does indeed

[agile pumice]

Presumably he's actually talking about setting up an SSH server though

Well maybe not. I dunno

[night matrix]

You dare profanate this sanctum by pronouncing this name ?

[austere creek]

macos does too

✨ BSD ✨

[next knoll]

If Windows didn't exist, what would be the source of the hatred that drives us towards Linux?
oh wait, if Windows didn't exist, then proprietary Unix would've become mainstream, and that's probably a thousand times worse

Isn't Darwin just another unix-like?

[agile pumice]

It's built off of Unix, isn't it?

[night matrix]

Lmao
So true

[austere creek]

Mach my beloved

[agile pumice]

Apparently it used to be open source

[next knoll]

Many OS's were made to be Unix-compatible or Unix-clone, just like many PCs were made to be IBM compatible.
But just like my PC isn't an IBM PC, Darwin isn't Unix.

[next knoll]

That's... a... very simplified description of its history 😄

There were lawsuits involved xD

and anyway, I was talking about proprietary unix failing to capture a market, not about the open source stuff.

In the time when it mattered (2000-2010) Unix really fell off.

How did RHEL come into the conversation 😂

[next knoll]

RHEL? ... the... L...

Linux is a(t most) Unix-like

it's entirely independent of the unix tree

which has nothing to do with anything that I'm talking about 😂

because RHEL failed to capture a significant chunk of the market just like every other linux distro

in the time period when it mattered anyway

If Windows didn't exist, then UNIX derivatives would've captured a large chunk of the market, owing to the fact that UNIX was very prevalent network-wise up to mid 2000's

I'm not talking UNIX-Like.

I'm talking actual proprietary descendants of proprietary unix.
And by proprietary I mean both commercially/restrictively licensed and fully closed source.

FreeBSD would've become a thing one way or another, but that would never catch on.

RHEL is not Unix, it's Unix-like.

Just because my API is the same as your API, doesn't mean that my OS is the same as your OS.

Darwin is.. complicated. It uses some open BSD chunks, but the vast majority of it is proprietary all the way back.

Which, once again, has nothing to do with what I was talking about 😄

if Windows didn't exist, then proprietary Unix would've become mainstream

I'm not taking POSIX, I'm talking actual UNIX descendants as they were popular back in the time period when it mattered.

which is all pre-2010, mostly pre-2005

since 2005 was when the fracturing of Unix kinda caused its final downfall

at least AT THAT POINT IN TIME

Unix, genetically, would return to mainstream use later (but only in some very specific use cases, like Playstation and Apple stuff).
But in the history where Windows didn't exist, none of this would've happened, since Unix would've remained and probably increased in prevalency over that time period.

I chose 2005 as a date because iirc that's when Windows Server became more prevalent in the server space than unix

lemme check lol

that was a f*ing question I got on a test in high school, fricking OS history

aaand yup, 2005.

Or was that the date it was eclipsed in general?

¯_(ツ)_/¯

either way, Unix got beaten at its own game for years and retreated into obscurity.
If Windows wasn't a thing, it probably wouldn't have, and instead it would've eventually captured the desktop market as well, with one proprietary vendor outselling everyone else.

geh, you sent me on one heck of a sidequest @silk solstice

[night matrix]

Egg

My sound came back a few hours ago

I lost it again

I love Arch but fuck it's such a pain sometimes

[austere creek]

the fun part is is generally it is not arch

[night matrix]

Indeed

God knows what it was

For some reason pavucontrol mutes by default

Didn't happen before

[keen leaf]

https://youtube.com/shorts/a7X9ISgAeKo?si=trPJmf2MTaY_KnHv

Linux car

[agile pumice]

My favourite executable

[austere creek]

very important one

[night matrix]

Hello

You should use nix... NOW !

[austere creek]

not for your desktop!

[night matrix]

Why

You need to use nix on all of your machines

[night matrix]

Hello

Pls help

[agile pumice]

What shell are you using?

Does shellcheck print anything useful?

Also it may be helpful to print the values of the variables you're adding together

Presumably you're trying to run it in Bash given the sh extension. But since you don't have a shebang you may be running it in whatever shell you're currently using instead of Bash

You can check that by adding echo $SHELL

[night matrix]

It has a shebang I just didn't copy it

The variables are correct I checked

[agile pumice]

Okay well paste the full script and add an echo that prints the variables

Never mind, I can replicate from what you posted

Looks like softirq is the issue variable

[night matrix]

Ah

[agile pumice]

For me softirq = 45570 0 0 0

How did you check the variables?

Just replace the read lines with read cpu user nice system idle iowait irq softirq _ _ _ < /proc/stat

[night matrix]

Uhh

Wait why

According to docs

The last number should be softirq

So what are the zeroes

Can I afford to ignore them ?

[agile pumice]

Your docs are wrong

There are 3 values after softirq

[night matrix]

I see

So ChatGPT for once was more right than a legit website

Depressing days

[agile pumice]

Orrr the official documentation is actually where you should be getting your information from

[night matrix]

Well

[agile pumice]

If the legit website hasn't been updated since Linux 2.6.33 then it's still accurate for the version it was written for

[night matrix]

Right

Hmm

Should steal be taken into account

Or guest

[agile pumice]

I have no idea what you're doing

[night matrix]

Getting CPU usage

That's how you calculate it

Compare active and idle times

[agile pumice]

If you want to calculate the actual total then yes

[night matrix]

Ye

I mean it's not like I use a lot of VMs

So it doesn't really matter

[agile pumice]

It will matter if you use them at all.

You're also only grabbing stats from the first core, you may or may not care about that for your use-case though

Also you should just move the total calculation to a function and call it twice instead of copy/pasting it twice

[night matrix]

No I'm not

The first line of /proc/stat is the entire cpu

[agile pumice]

Oh yeah you're right

[agile pumice]

Something like this would be better as a script:

#!/usr/bin/env bash

get_cpu() {
    read -r _ user nice system idle iowait irq softirq steal guest guest_nice  < /proc/stat
    echo $((user + nice + system + irq + softirq + steal + guest + guest_nice)) $((idle + iowait))
}

read -r prevtotal previdle <<< "$(get_cpu)"

sleep 1

read -r posttotal postidle <<< "$(get_cpu)"

total=$((posttotal - prevtotal))
inactive=$((postidle - previdle))

usage=$((total / (total + inactive)))
echo $usage

[night matrix]

Clean

[keen leaf]

Nix, for when Arch isn't niche enough.

[night matrix]

exactly

Working on a new bar

[next knoll]

Nix, for when you don't want to have to remember how you set your shit up

[tame lantern]

Hyprland <3

[night matrix]

Well
Saving your .config on git isn't that hard

[austere creek]

what

that's not at all similar

[agile pumice]

You'd also have to save a list of all packages you installed and write a setup script that automates everything at the very least

[tame lantern]

Making scripts to automate things on Linux is fun

I have waybar widget that shows me how many package updates are available and I can just click it and it does all the AUR and flatpaks and whatever

[austere creek]

try nix

and I didn't say nixos

[next knoll]

what

[night matrix]

what

[night matrix]

I already have this list :3

[next knoll]

did you misread what I wrote or something

[night matrix]

No I just answered what :3

[next knoll]

???

[night matrix]

Damn

That's a cool script

[next knoll]

did you somehow misread this? @night matrix

[night matrix]

Care to...

[night matrix]

No I didn't

As far as rice goes just save your .config

Is all

[next knoll]

So you don't know what Nix is

[night matrix]

Oh damn

Nix

Not nixos

I got too deep in

[next knoll]

no, we are talking about nixos

[night matrix]

Well then

[night matrix]

Yes I do

What's your point

[next knoll]

and that's got nothing to do with rice

[night matrix]

Oh ok

You just meant the whole system

[next knoll]

yes

[night matrix]

Ok

Personally I just make a list

[next knoll]

yeah but that doesn't include all of the shit that ties it together

in nix you set it all up declaratively

[night matrix]

I know that

I spent a week studying it

Then realized I didn't need it

[agile pumice]

https://tenor.com/view/portal-i-am-not-a-moron-portal-2-wheatley-i-gif-17984108426495618920

[tame lantern]

based linus

[austere creek]

only sometimes...

if you ignore complete leadership failure

[night matrix]

I love this guy

[keen leaf]

Linus when speaking about progressive issues:
Linus when you make a slight coding mistake:

Also Linus when you say it isn't the 90s and an email mailing list isn't the best platform for collaborative projects.

[opal abyss]

Fuck Windows

I hate windows

[agile pumice]

Windows is great it's perfect it's life it's the food of gods, it's the epitome of performance and only has the users best interests in mind 🥺

[keen leaf]

windows putting shit news I dont care about in my start menu

[tame lantern]

Windows is beneficial for because it helps develop skills such as patience

[agile pumice]

It's just keeping you on your toes

It's good to stretch your brain every now and then

[opal abyss]

Never will I develop the patience to wait for restorehealth without tweaking

[livid jasper]

How annoying is it to use Linux on a MacBook ? As compared to a regular laptop ?

[agile pumice]

Asahi Linux is the only project working on that , it's not consumer-ready AFAIK

[livid jasper]

How annoying

[agile pumice]

You could run a VM in Parallels 😎

[livid jasper]

Maybe, I don't exactly know how to do that and frankly I just want the battery life and hardware perks of a MacBook but without having to deal with the crappy compatibility that I may encounter with the programs my uni may want me to run on it, so Linux seemed like a great way to get both compatibility with niche open source things and having decent battery life

[agile pumice]

Oh I mean, WINE works perfectly fine on Intel Macbooks. I think it torks on M series chips too but you'd have to do a bit of research

I think ATM you just have to run WINE through Rosetta on M series chips

Which... might suck, I don't know

[livid jasper]

I have absolutely no idea

I just need to find a way to make random niche open source firmware that probably have been coded for Linux/windows to run on MacOs

Cause I also need to get a laptop in, well, 0 days technically, and my local computer store basically only has garbage windows laptops or MacBooks

[agile pumice]

Worst-case scenario you should be able to run a Linux/Windows VM

Mmm a brief look online suggests they don't run that well on M chips

It might be in beta
https://osxdaily.com/2022/10/22/you-can-now-run-virtualbox-on-apple-silicon-m1-m2/

Never mind, out of beta

[livid jasper]

This is going to be fun

[livid jasper]

Also I just realized that's for m1-2 and I was planning on getting an m4

[agile pumice]

I just assumed they worked the same but maybe not. I don't use macOS at all 😅

[livid jasper]

Idk, I don't really want to use MacOs that's why I was hoping I could load Linux onto it

Guess I will have to use it

[night matrix]

Why not UTM

[agile pumice]

🤷 does it work on m4?

[night matrix]

Idk

Mzybe

Aybe

Maybe

FUCK

it's worth a shot

[austere creek]

Asahi is consumer ready and has been for a long time on the M1 and M2

The myth that it hasn't been is one that has damaged the project quite a bit and part of why one of the main maintainers left at some point

[austere creek]

If you want a more Linux-y experience you can always use nix-darwin or install everything through brew (ew)

[livid jasper]

I have ended up not going for a MacBook

[agile pumice]

Huh, my bad. I'll have to research it more. I wouldn't use it myself but thta's cool that I can start peel-pressering Mac users into switching to Linux too lol

[austere creek]

Asahi is also part of where my bad comments for Linus come from, he has let months of harassment campaigns and secret targeting go on for extremely long lengths of time and people have come out of the woodwork often to talk about it. His answer often is that they shouldn't have brought it onto social media after being ignored for so long, and hence they're bad or whatever.

[austere creek]

Wouldn't have been my choice

[livid jasper]

The money has already left my wallet and I ended up not wanting to deal with apple so eh

[agile pumice]

Hm. I guess I kinda get not wanting to go to social media. That still sucks though

[austere creek]

You're putting in hours and hours of full time work into making something happen for everyone to use for free, meanwhile every bit of your progress is getting blocked and you're getting harassed and lied to to your face about who your friends are. This going on for over a year or two, eventually you break.

[agile pumice]

Now I wanna get a Macbook purely to be able to make people think I use macOS and then prove I'm completely inept at navigating it lol

[agile pumice]

Ah yeah that totally sucks

[austere creek]

not that dissimilar what happened in this discord i guess

[austere creek]

I just wish there was something at the same value as macbooks, what did you pick?

[livid jasper]

An hp omnibook x with a core ultra 7 268v

[austere creek]

bruh

[livid jasper]

Wat

[austere creek]

I'm pretty sure Linus himself has submitted kernel patches using Asahi on a Macbook lol

[austere creek]

intel core ultra is goofy

[livid jasper]

Because of the name or performance wise ?

[austere creek]

everything

[livid jasper]

Well I've heard decent things about it, especially efficiency wise

[austere creek]

is probably fine

I hope it works out for you

never lock yourself in though

and remember: never use userbenchmark lol

[livid jasper]

Been years since I've used it

[livid jasper]

I mean, dis was somewhat part of why I found going for a Mac silly

[austere creek]

why?

[livid jasper]

Not wanting to get used to MacOs optimized softwares and then have them be shit if I try them on windows or linux

[austere creek]

then use linux programs

pretty much everything linux works on macos

macos even encourages that and builds things around that fact

and nothing is locked, with support you can just throw any OS on there

macos doesn't lock you, they just provide really good defaults

[agile pumice]

Through a VM, you mean?

[livid jasper]

If so then I'd rather not and just live with my Microsoft overlords and be able to use niche softwares without goofy compatibility things

[agile pumice]

The fact that stuff like Karabiner can exist on macOS is really cool. There's basically no equivalent on Windows that I know of

[austere creek]

no, just onto it

nothing is locked

and I am in the same boat of knowing far more goofy niche software that isn't windows compatible

than the other way around

[agile pumice]

What do you mean by any OS? Like, you can boot Windows on an M series macBook?

[austere creek]

any OS that supports arm and has drivers for macbooks

[agile pumice]

Are there many? I was under the impression Asahi was unique in that regard

[keen leaf]

I've seen this one before but with "Linux is only free if your time is worthless".

As an Arch user I agree

[austere creek]

It's been 3-4 years for my personal computer, probably longer for some other stuff.

and this is an install that has moved between computers multiple times as well

[austere creek]

likely not yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if things like BSD and such aren't that far behind if there's ask for it

these drivers are out there now to base your own off of

[next knoll]

not running nvidia, huh

[austere creek]

i have servers with nvidia cards that have been up for a few years as well

[next knoll]

impressive

I remember the days when nvidia DKMS nuked systems every other release 😂

[tame lantern]

Isn’t reinstalling arch all the time part of the fun of it

[next knoll]

I've gotten mildly fed up with forgetting one command and having my audio get stuck at 1000% volume

because the module for my specific sound chip is just a little oof

setting up Arch the 1st to 15th time was fun

then it was just a chore

[tame lantern]

I’ve never had to reinstall arch

I just do it for fun

It’s been very reliable as long as I update it on time

It’s funny how people say arch is bad for usability and breaks and stuff when it has been amazing compared to windows

[agile pumice]

I've only had a couple issues with dependency conflicts for updating Balena Etcher and that's kinda the only Arch-specific issue I've had so far

[tame lantern]

Oh yeah one issue I have had

arch likes to keep old versions of electron for some reason

that’s the only one I can think of

[austere creek]

Arch doesn't have easy KDE Integration

[agile pumice]

What do you mean?

It's pretty easy to install Plasma, if that's what you're talking about

[keen leaf]

my arch is plasma

[next knoll]

LOL

yeah precisely how govt studies are done nowadays

[sharp helm]

wait shes on to something because ive been preaching this

apple dumbs everything down

now i wanna know the results

[livid jasper]

I have a theory that her theory isn't your theory

[agile pumice]

Yeah she thinks macOS causes autism

[livid jasper]

Seriously ?

[agile pumice]

No I'm kidding. I don't actually have the faintest idea what her theory is

[keen leaf]

I'm sure she's implying that people raised on mac have worse problem solving skills and lower tech literacy

Has there ever been any kids that "started on mac" though?

I started on Windows 3.1 and all our schools had windows

[agile pumice]

I did but it was a Mac with Bootcamp on it so sometimes it started in Windows and sometimes it started in Mac and I had no idea why

I also didn't know it was two different OSs, all I knew is it sometimes looked different

[agile pumice]

Yes, not everyone is the same age as you lol

[keen leaf]

Yes but has there ever been a time when schools have used macs instead of windows PCs? Macs are usually more expensive

Maybe right now there exists kids that started on ChromeOS

Or is that a Linux win?

[agile pumice]

I'd assume so. At the very least, there were definitely people that didn't have computers in school and got one for heme

[keen leaf]

They should have installed a switch

[opal abyss]

Why is it 2 switches and not 1

[agile pumice]

What if you want to boot into 4 different OSs

You've gotta be prepared

[next knoll]

I'm pretty sure that Autism causes Gentoo but okay

[next knoll]

you gotta get into BIOS/netboot somehow

[opal abyss]

Linux, macos, Windows, templeos

[next knoll]

both on - macos
both off - templeos

[austere creek]

the integration of it all, it's never been quite as seamless as a distro built around kde

[keen leaf]

plasma package for Arch installs useless shit like the kde get apps app

then to remove that you need to.uninstall the package and start installing things one by one, which means looking up and typing all the things plasma comes with

why not just remove that one usless app from the package?

[agile pumice]

There's the plasma-desktop package for that, right?

[keen leaf]

Yes but the package installs the whole thing

and some kde apps are useless with arch

[agile pumice]

What do you mean?

It looks like it's pretty minimal

https://archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/plasma-desktop/

[keen leaf]

if its the minimal one then you need to go through manually adding the apps you want

my point is there isn't a plasma package that installs everything apart from the useless apps

[agile pumice]

Oh. Well that's a subjective thing

You could make your own though

Just stick it on the AUR

[keen leaf]

the kde package manager app being installed isnt subjective it literally doesn't function on Arch

[agile pumice]

Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean

my point is there isn't a plasma package that installs everything apart from the useless apps
This is subjective. That's what I was talking about

Oh I guess by "useless" you're talking about things that objectively don't work on Arch?

[keen leaf]

yes

[tame lantern]

it seems silly to use Arch of all systems and then complain about manually adding stuff

[agile pumice]

It would also be trivial to add a package like that to the AUR

[keen leaf]

Average windows 11 start menu experience

So many times windows has failed to read my gopro or DJI goggle SD card and yet Linux has no issue

https://tenor.com/view/meonly-gif-19710542

[next knoll]

Win+x

[next knoll]

this is one of the MacOS things that I hate linux DE's for copying.

[night matrix]

Anyone here have any success running Doom Eternal on Arch ?

[next knoll]

Sounds like it should run pretty well through proton

https://www.protondb.com/app/782330

[night matrix]

That's what I thought but it complains about video memory

And then dies

Even though 6G VRAM should be plenty

[next knoll]

What proton version are you running?

[night matrix]

Experimental

Through steam

(saying this in case there's another way to run proton)

[next knoll]

I don't currently have any setup that I could test this on unfortunately 🙁

[agile pumice]

I can test later today

[next knoll]

@night matrix what GPU?

[night matrix]

Hmm

[night matrix]

RTX 3060 Laptop

Protondb says I should use protonGE

I might try that

[night matrix]

Nvidia-open drivers

580

[next knoll]

what exact error are you getting?

[night matrix]

Failed to allocate video memory
Something something 5GB

[next knoll]

nothing about 512MB?

[night matrix]

Mm no

It was something with 54XX MB

To be precise

[next knoll]

what if you put -autoconfig in the launch options in steam?

[night matrix]

I'll try that tomorrow

[keen leaf]

https://landscape.linuxfoundation.org/?item=lf-members--associate--openipc-member

OpenIPC joined the Linux foundation

[opal abyss]

boots linux laptop for the first time in months
wifi not working

oh I enabled a random setting in bios and suddenly it works again

[night matrix]

BOy oh boY I love setting up VR for Xplane on Arch

[night matrix]

I'm going to give up soon

Linux has been virtually nothing but pain

And now yet something else doesn't work

Did anyone successfully set up SteamVR on Linux ? It just doesn't work for me

This is insane
According to several docs, Arch/Hyprland/XPlane is supposed to work perfectly

[agile pumice]

Does it give you errors at all?

[sly cape]

Worked out of the box when I tried half life alyx.

Just plug and play

Was a htc vive something. Just borrowed it.

[night matrix]

It just doesn't see my headset

[dark crag]

Do you see dmesg output when you plug in the headset?

[night matrix]

Wha
Lsusb sees it

[dark crag]

I don't know anything about VR or setting up steam VR, but figured if the problem was recognizing the hardware I might be able to help. Sorry I can't offer anything more but my empathy. Been where you're at with different peripherals in the past.

[sly cape]

Do you see the device? Might be your user don't have read/write access to it.

[dark crag]

Oh good call, might need udev rules for it

[night matrix]

Oof

[sly cape]

The device should be owned by root and some group. And the group should have RW access. Then you add yourself to the group and log out and in again and your odds should be in your favour

[night matrix]

The idea of getting into udev rules already makes me sick

[sly cape]

You should not need udev rules for this.

Often this is a dialout or usbdev group or something.

[night matrix]

Uhhhh

Could you tell me how I do that pls

And how do you give ownership of a device that only exists temporarily

[sly cape]

The device is somewhere in /dev and

If it's in 'lsusb' it is hopefully added automatically and then you should see which group it uses automatically.

Luckily udev-rules are not too hard. But if it comes to this I have to sit Infront of my computer.

[night matrix]

Called for dinner

Sry

[sly cape]

No worries. I'm waiting for my son to fall asleep. 🙂

[austere creek]

you use arch

it has a gigantic wiki

it tells you all

[night matrix]

Fair

[tame lantern]

imagine using arch

[sly cape]

but also the device will be added the same way every time. so if it's added rw to a group, then joining the group will solve the problem.

[night matrix]

Ok so

I don't know where in /dev it is

Clearly not /usb

[sly cape]

can you paste the output from dmesg everything you think is related to the device?

[night matrix]

Do I have to sudo dmesg?

[sly cape]

at least if just dmesgdoes not work

[night matrix]

Ok so

[tame lantern]

are you perchance an archinstall user

[sly cape]

I dunno why newbies use the less hand-holding distros.. just use ubuntu or even linux mint.

[night matrix]

NEVER
I HAVE PROUDLY INSTALLED ARCH MANUALLY 27 TIMES

ok so

[ 5148.858199] usb 1-4: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3
[ 5148.858200] usb 1-4: Product: Quest 2
[ 5148.858201] usb 1-4: Manufacturer: Oculus
[ 5148.858202] usb 1-4: SerialNumber: 1WMHH814P10353
[ 5148.914347] ucsi_acpi USBC000:00: unknown error 0
[ 5148.914349] ucsi_acpi USBC000:00: UCSI_GET_PDOS failed (-5)```

[tame lantern]

27 is a little excessive

[night matrix]

well three times because i had to, the rest was just for fun

[tame lantern]

typical arch user

[night matrix]

because I don't want a hand-holding distro, even though Arch can be a pain, I like the control
Ubuntu is meh

[sly cape]

siigh..

ok, then read this: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Virtual_reality

[night matrix]

done already, sadly

they don't go far into detail

I'm trying to set up alvr but it requires steamVR which doesn't detect my headset

soooo

[sly cape]

well, seems like it reads the identifying stuff through USB but does fuckall with it.

[austere creek]

and now without knowing it is rolling release and as your first linux experience

[sly cape]

So you have to figure it out yourself. 🙂

[night matrix]

well now i do and i update daily x_deepfry_when_the

[sly cape]

I get paid to use linux daily. And I love it when my distro just makes it work 🙂

[tame lantern]

I did go like 2 months without updating arch when I wasnt using my laptop

was a very bad idea

[night matrix]

welp anyway

cool

bye

[sly cape]

good luck

[tame lantern]

bye bye

[austere creek]

hey look it's the idvendor and idproduct numbers you need to add it to udev

[sly cape]

[night matrix]

I already said that I didn't know about udev rules yet

[sly cape]

come on now, he didn't want any handholding.

[night matrix]

What's the point of bashing again and again

I get it

[sly cape]

I dunno man. I guess I was probably just lucky with an older VR-set and all.

[night matrix]

Was talking to emilia

[sly cape]

but yeah, but please use a distro who at least tries to help.

[austere creek]

hadn't scrolled down yet

[sly cape]

reminds me from back in the day I tested FreeBSD …

[night matrix]

[tame lantern]

bash is boring, zsh is for cool people

[austere creek]

fish is for cool people

or something

[tame lantern]

<><

[sly cape]

I had a rebelious period in my youth when I used zsh.. bash is just so mutch more convenient.

😄

[tame lantern]

zsh makes you cool though

I feel ashamed of my neofetch

[odd moss]

how do people get this info screen

[austere creek]

you pick one of the five billion people's first programmer projects that do it

[austere creek]

this is what I actually use and all I can use currently lol

same as always!

[tame lantern]

That’s a lot of storage used

[austere creek]

i ran out on accident a while back and broke literally everything

as in needed to mount the drive using a different boot drive to clear up files

[tame lantern]

yikes

[dark crag]

It warms my heart how many linux users are here

[odd moss]

oh I figured it out

swag

[tame lantern]

We are in a hobby discord that involves electronics and stuff, it makes sense to me

[dark crag]

but I guess the venn diagram of RC hobbiests and linux users has a ton of intersection

[tame lantern]

what’s Nobara Linux

[agile pumice]

It's Fedora but with preinstalled stuff for gaming

[tame lantern]

oh

boring

[odd moss]

tbh I don't even game on it, I just liked that it had most of everything already done for me

[agile pumice]

I use zsh purely because it lets me have a Vi mode 😅 everything else I have I could set up in Bash too

[odd moss]

baby's first linux distro

[dark crag]

ZSH used to have better tab completion baked in, now bash seems to have caught up but I'm still on zsh because old habits die hard (and my install is from 2009).

If it ain't broke, don't fix it

[austere creek]

it is better than when that happened to me on windows like a decade ago

it just corrupted shit and needed to do the whole repair thing

[agile pumice]

I keep meaning to try fish. But I write all my scripts in Bash and since Zsh is kind of compatible it's more convenient than Fish 😭

[austere creek]

your bash scripts will still run as bash no?

there's so many scripts on your system that get used overall that are just bash still

[odd moss]

I'm once again reading too many things I don't understand, time to retreat from this thread for weeks

[agile pumice]

They will but if I write something in the interactive prompt I want to be able to do most of what I'd do in Bash with no issue

[opal abyss]

thats the wrong mindset, coexist and act like you understand

hmm yeah sure I agree with this guys

[agile pumice]

And Zsh does an alright job about being compatible so it's good enough for me

[dark crag]

AFAIK zsh has adopted compatibility with most bash syntax, I think a lot of stuff (e.g. function declaration) can be zsh style or bash style and it handles both fine

[austere creek]

https://fishshell.com/docs/current/fish_for_bash_users.html

[agile pumice]

It doest't quite have all the same syntax though and that trips me up sometimes lol

Like Zsh has fewer options for formatting variables using ${}

Also globstar shopt isn't a thing in Zsh I think?

Whichever shopt lets you do /** for multilevel globbing

[odd moss]

me rn

[agile pumice]

Yeah you caught me I've actually been making up words this whole time to mess with you 😂

[dark crag]

FWIW this is how I feel learning all of this FPV stuff

[odd moss]

yeah fair enough

[dark crag]

I've just been simmering in the linux stew long enough to have picked up most of this stuff via osmosis

[odd moss]

I took a hard dive after realizing that Windows was starting to not be useful on a laptop that's getting up there in terms of age

[agile pumice]

Windows is not being useful for me on a new laptop too 😭

So much lag on very good hardware. Idk why

[dark crag]

I think this is pretty common tbh, thats how I got started too. My dad gave me his old i486 processor machine after buying his first pentium.

[agile pumice]

Should've flashed macOS to it smh

[dark crag]

I tried OS X a bunch in grad school, but once when I was running up a paper deadline I was forced to install an OS upgrade and it wiped out a custom python install I needed to run my experiments. It took me ~8h to figure out wtf was wrong because there was ZERO reason OS X should've modified my install since it was in a user directory. I bought a thinkpad after that and went full linux. Have been windows/os x free for 15ish years now and don't regret it

[odd moss]

I still have Windows 11 on the main PC, but the laptop had to get the penguin treatment sooner than later

[austere creek]

i have a laptop with a 13th gen intel in it which is yikes but no matter how much you mess with windows it just underperforms from what you'd actually expect

[agile pumice]

I'm on a Surface Workstation laptop, 13th gen i7-13800H 32GB RAM and a discrete RTX 4050 mobile it should run fine 😭

Powershell takes up to 1.7 seconds to start which is abysmal

[odd moss]

tried a clean install?

[agile pumice]

Also when scrolling the browser will just randomly freeze for a second

[agile pumice]

I intend to. The symptoms were still present when I first set it up though

[odd moss]

My friend had a (admittedly older) surface laptop and it ran like ass until he did a clean install IIRC

[dark crag]

IIRC there were some microcode issues with the 13th/14th gen intel processors, have you checked for BIOS updates? I don't know if those problems were in the mobile chips or only the desktop

[agile pumice]

idk it's a corp laptop so it's a little more of a process to mess around with. I just haven't gotten around to asking IT about it since it still technically works lol

[dark crag]

ooooh yea

I wouldn't touch that one (wouldn't be able to where I work anyway)

[agile pumice]

Kind of frustrating since I won't be able to work without it. So I gotta do it during a not-busy time but that hasn't really happened yet

Maybe I see if Zsh opens faster than Powershell

Anything through WSL runs like I'd expect it to but I don't really want to have to go through WSL for everything just to have a normal experience

[opal abyss]

I have a laptop with an intel i7 6th gen

[dark crag]

I would imagine if it were a microcode issue you'd see it regardless of OS/software

[agile pumice]

Tbf I'm only doing command-line stuff in WSL. I haven't tried using a GUI app so I don't know if the scrolling issue's present there too

But WSL being a lot faster than Powershell is normal for Windows I think

[tame lantern]

Windows is typically fine if you clear it up as soon as it fills but once you turn it off and try to load everything into the ram and stuff again then it starts having some real issues

[odd moss]

I only start running into lag when it's been like 8-10 days of on-time

[dark crag]

Windows ages like vegetables... not well 😛

[agile pumice]

Ugh my zsh setup runs poorly even in WSL 😭

Runs fine in Linux though

[dark crag]

🙁 yea maybe worth seeing if IT can update your bios

[night matrix]

FISH USER SPOTTED ! W !!!

[night matrix]

hepl

SUBSYSTEM=="usb", ATTR{idVendor}=="2833", ATTR{idProduct}=="0182", MODE="0666"

not work

that's as far as I could go with my very limited understanding of udev

steam still doesn't see it

[night matrix]

OH MY GOD eVERYTHING IS SO COMPlICATED
WHAT THE FUCK IS A PATCHBAY

WHAT DO MY GPU DRIVERS HAVE TO DO WITH ANY OF THIS

ok i give up

[austere creek]

if it is in fact a permission issue and your user does have the group for this, did you actually reload the udev rules like it probably tells you to

[night matrix]

Of course I did

Reloaded and triggered

[keen leaf]

what is it with windows and randomly not being able to read SD cards from devices that linux can?

If I didn't have acess to a linux system I'd have lost footage from my DJI goggles and clip on mic recorder

linux can always read these cards when windows is having a tantrum and not displaying the drive

[odd moss]

I've consistently had the opposite problem

[opal abyss]

Repoooost

[night matrix]

Yea but it felt appropriate

[dark crag]

Yeah every time I plug my SD card into my computer (Linux) it tells me the filesystem is corrupt. It reads fine, but I blame the goggles rather than Linux. No idea if Windows would complain or not though.

[opal abyss]

skyzone goggles?

if yes, does the sd card have more than 32gb?

[dark crag]

Nope, they're shitty emax googles but it is a 64gb card

[opal abyss]

well in my skyzone goggles, they format the sd card to fat32 (other formats dont work), and since my sd card has more than 32gb, windows always gives me an error but it still works normally

[dark crag]

Ah yah that makes sense. Pretty sure the emax googles format the card to fat32 also

[night matrix]

Sooo
Cura just segfaults when I try to open a file with it

What the fuck

The open file button makes it drop a SIGSEGV and die

[night matrix]

Linux is so broken

[night matrix]

Not Linux in itself

Linux is rock solid

But integration of stuff within Linux is horrible

Because

Stuff like windows, even though it's shit, still relies on communication between developers that fall under the Microsoft monopoly
But Linux is a free for all, so every software you try to run is essentially held together by duct tape and prayers

[dark crag]

I hate to tell you this, but the entire software industry is duct tape and prayers 😂

[agile pumice]

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux!

[austere creek]

linux in most cases is not a free for all in really any way whatsoever

large organizations and companies behind so much of it and everyone knows their target developing

i would argue it is less of a free for all than windows, especially if you consider every stage

now of course if you go out of your way picking smaller projects and such for everything you do from what you do actually pick yourself, it gets worse

but this is the exact same with windows

[night matrix]

Yeah but for example, larger proprietary software will have a lot of issues because getting it to work on a system it wasn't intended to work on is just œ

[ripe stream]

guys guys its this easy respect each others os's 🥰

anyways, the latest in redneck storage medium radiator-type active cooling technology

... allow me to explain

[night matrix]

Ok that does it
I give up on Arch

Surely windows isn't bad enough for me to not go back

[opal abyss]

Windows sucks

I just set up my new laptop a few days ago

First time owning win11

So many dumb setting enabled

Love it when I have to fix the stock operating system

[night matrix]

Lol

But things work don't they

Linux is so painful

It doesn't feel worth it anymore

[opal abyss]

Apart from that one time it randomly run into an error and shut down it works

Although I had to install steam twice

But then it worked

[night matrix]

Ug

Yea I'm doing it

Enough toying around

[opal abyss]

I liked Win10 more even tho it was ass the last weeks/months, but I blame it on my old laptop

[night matrix]

I want to use my computer not fight it

[night matrix]

Win10 was nice yea

[opal abyss]

I'm also slowly accepting the win11 ui

[night matrix]

You don't have to

I know a guy who made a BEAUTIFUL Win11 shell

[opal abyss]

Sounds like a great way to make me fuck up my laptop again

[night matrix]

Messing around with registry keys lol

[opal abyss]

I can finally run any software and game with good graphics and everything happens fast, that's all I need rn

[night matrix]

Ye

Windows it is

I'll just have to spend a few days getting all my accounts back

The perspective of all the performance loss already pisses me

[ripe stream]

I'm never one to judge others' OS choice, but to be fair...

tinyhawk rtf kit
fpv sucks!

[night matrix]

Har har

Ok wait

dual boot

Dual boot is the answer

I keep arch as my daily driver

And use windows for gaming and other big software

Nahhh fuck that

Too complicated

[ripe stream]

why arch tho

like i assume its ur first linux os right?

[night matrix]

Second

I used Pop! before

[ripe stream]

fair

but arch isnt where u gon find stability lol

[austere creek]

it is if you know what you're doing

[agile pumice]

Fedora's not bad, Ubuntu's valuable because Every Tutuerial In Existence Ever has instructions for it

[austere creek]

not if you think Linux time and pick it practically as your first experience regarding Arch

[dark crag]

Yah TBH I've found arch to be a breeze, but I've been playing with Linux since the 90s

Ran Ubuntu for years and had way more trouble with it TBH. Sometimes all of the extra packages they give you for ease of use actually cause more headaches

[opal abyss]

make mint your daily driver

[night matrix]

Arch is plenty stable

[austere creek]

i wish you had actually described what was happening to us

[night matrix]

I'm not really asking for help here
There are simply too many things to troubleshoot in general, and I'm getting tired of troubleshooting

I want to use my PC, not struggle to make it work

Linux was in fact better for productivity, but there's always a problem somewhere

but anyway

I'm 17 in 9 minutes

[opal abyss]

What

Why are you flying planes

[night matrix]

What

What does age have to do with that

[opal abyss]

How are you flying planes at 16

Irl

[night matrix]

It just do be like that

I have a friend who got his ppl on the day he turned 17

Youngest pilot in france

[austere creek]

then stop going off of the beaten path?

[night matrix]

What beaten path

I just acknowledged that Linux wasn't for me

Why push this further

Seemed like the way to go at first, then turned out it wasn't

[ripe stream]

no no, you tried and subsequently rejected linux which is an eternal abomination and everlasting insult to all. We can no longer respect you or your opinion. Off with your head, and, uhh... glory to the Penguin.

[austere creek]

you decidedly went off of the most well-used desktop environments and programs

and used the far less used tools

[night matrix]

ARE YOU SAYING there are objectively better distros and WMs ? That's a bold claim
(jk)

[keen leaf]

What you don't like asinine celebrity gossip in your start menu?

[keen leaf]

Using Arch first is like getting into FPV by designing your own flight controller.

[opal abyss]

gotta love the efficiency tho

11gb ram usage with no program opened

[night matrix]

I don't really see how it was Arch specifically that made it harder

Most of my stuff just worked out of the box

[tame lantern]

not really

that would be gentoo

and then Linux from scratch would be making betaflight too

[austere creek]

Gentoo isn't that much different from Arch, the only thing is that you're building it all yourself with optimized flags

[shut mantle]

what’re y’all’s thoughts on omarchy

[agile pumice]

I try to stay away from DHH lol
From what I've heard it sounds fine if you want an opinionated preconfigured Arch/Hyprland setup for dev work 🤷

[odd moss]

I'd stay away just because DHH made it lol

Fuck that guy

[shut mantle]

oop just looked up DHH yea, there’s no way i’m using that

thanks for the heads up

[keen leaf]

"You should have an immigration system more like Denmark"
"His views are criticised as being far-right."
Danish party in power: Social democrats

https://tenor.com/view/joe-biden-presidential-debate-huh-confused-gif-9508832355999336631

I don't know who the guy is, I just read his wiki. But this part doesn't make any sense.

Unless we're calling the Danish social democrat party a far right party

"Danish style immigration system" is a popular buzzphrase in UK right now, lots of people seem to want it.

[night matrix]

Peak Linux right there

[tame lantern]

so I love arch but I don't love how unstable it can be, either messing itself up during updates or being really easy to mess up myself. I was wanting to try OpenSUSE Tumbleweed on my desktop so I can have rolling release and good community repos without it breaking configs and stuff on updates, do yall have any reasons I shouldn't use it?

[agile pumice]

It seems like a pretty good rolling release distro 🤷 haven't used it myself though

How do you break Arch so often though??

Like if that's happening, it's possible it's just a skill issue and you'd have the same issue on Tumbleweed too

[tame lantern]

I don't break it often, but it breaking at all is the problem

like installing 20 different versions of electron or configs changing or a package having a bad update

[agile pumice]

Ah yeah I guess I've run into Electron issues before

Configs changing sounds like you're using in-development software, perhaps?

Bad package updates have never happened to me on the official Arch repo 🤔 Do you just have a ton of AUR packages?

Rolling releases in general are not a good option if you want something that doesn't break

Like I know Tumbleweed's supposed to be more stable than other rolling releases, but if you want the latest-and-greatest packages with a guarantee of not breaking upon upgrade, I'd suggest maybe using Fedora instead

[next knoll]

An important note about Arch here is to upgrade frequently. Things tend to break a lot less often then.

Or the breakages are far less catastrophic xD

Every time I nuked arch it was when I didn't upgrade stuff for a couple months..

[tame lantern]

yeah but even then it still does stuff

a couple months on arch is insane

[austere creek]

I didn't have many issues with Arch other than them not lagging behind for a few days with things like KDE when there were big issues, the rest were always conflicts that could be solved.

Tumbleweed is perfectly fine as a distro, Zypper is slow and they name packages differently than what you're used to. Available packages aren't nearly as much as the AUR or as easy, but you can find most things on people's OBS, generally hasn't been a problem for myself.

[austere creek]

this kind of almost sounds like you just have some packages that are lagging behind, with how obnoxious electron is and all. I do know what you're talking about with Arch suddenly changing a config file or overriding something, I really thought they would've stopped doing that kind of thing years ago and I'm not sure it happens on OpenSUSE. worst part is you'll track down the discussion of where they did it and they'll be like "this won't affect anyone/many people!"

with SUSE there's a clear split between what in Arch would be base and just kernel updates and just normal updates, as in it'll very clearly tell you so you can reference the date and such

i do want to remind you that there are also just distro's that actively try to be up to date with very set release schedules if you don't actually need the very latest, Fedora would be a decent example where it updates every 13 months. they're also a lot more locked in though, there's a clear barrier but you can still do anything you want.

[agile pumice]

lol that's what I said too

[tame lantern]

I am very ashamed to admit this

I kinda like GNOME

im probably gonna use this...

im sorry kde plasma

its a very heavy DE but anything is better than windows

[austere creek]

power of linux is that you get to pick

people like gnome, it's extremely opinionated

[ripe stream]

welcome to the uhh

the controversial side

[tame lantern]

it does hurt me inside to see that installing OpenSUSE with GNOME is 2000 packages

[ripe stream]

to be fair

i use linux cause privary and less resource heavy (probably correlated)

and gnome is still plenty faster

and it works so well for me that the actual usage is ridiculously fast

[tame lantern]

with gnome I idle at 1gb RAM, with windows it's 16gb lol

[ripe stream]

let me know if you ever need some plugin recommendations, i've found a combo that appears to be without debilitating bugs

[ripe stream]

LOL

i mean I know it has something to do with "unused ram is wasted ram"

[tame lantern]

not in this economy 😭

[ripe stream]

but windows still does lag sometimes for me

[ripe stream]

im sorry i thought this was america

i paid for the whole ram

[tame lantern]

I dont ever get like actual lag from windows, it's just slow

especially for the first few minutes after startup

and then some things like VLC media player are just weird on Windows and take like 20 seconds to launch

maybe its something to do with me installing it using winget idk

[ripe stream]

it's windows, who knows lol

i mean absolute worst case, windows is buggy and spies on me, gnome is just buggy

i just quicksave my entire hard drive before each time i go on another addon spree, and revert if it triggers bugs. Currently on a comfortably customized setup and no bugs. couldn't be more content

[tame lantern]

what kind of bugginess? I haven't used it enough to know and I should before I install it on my main system

[ripe stream]

hmmm it's been a bit I don't even remember exaclty what lol. but mostly just really weird arbitrary glitches. audio panel disappearing or bugging out, uhhh

yeah i think mainly visual bugs that arise from stacking tons of layout addons

even then, i've got a ton of stuff to get a customized bottom bar and no issues

[tame lantern]

that sounds like something I can mostly avoid by being more reasonable with my addons

[ripe stream]

occasionally some arbitrary system bugs maybe? though I'm not sure if that was even the addons

[ripe stream]

i think that'd do it yeah

i think i really only got more bugs when I was more inexperienced and less willing to troubleshoot lol

i got a good chunk a these heh

[tame lantern]

those are definitely things

when I was setting up my hyprland I made some of the waybar widget whatever they're called things myself, it was annoying

[ripe stream]

lol as much as I wanted to get into ricing, i could never afford the time

[tame lantern]

I really appreciate GNOME Chess being installed by default

[tame lantern]

its not worth it

dont do it

[ripe stream]

i'm good with my extensions, mostly just shortcut/navigation thigns that actually save me time

[ripe stream]

ah the default apps are the one annoying thing lol

[tame lantern]

KDE does it too, im not too mad

[ripe stream]

behind the scenes, i'm guessing gnome is truly way less invasive than windows, but I still wish it was less or optional lol

[ripe stream]

ah fair

[tame lantern]

better than windows 10 installing candy crush soda saga

[ripe stream]

honestly i mighta just ticked an option i shouldn't've when I was installing

man my android installs games at will

[tame lantern]

im just letting OpenSUSE do all the gnome stuff for me so I cant really control what it does

[ripe stream]

oh interesting

tbf i think the only "option" i had in the installer in terms of customization was selecting a DE and "minimal" vs "normal" installation

not sure if the latter two were related to apps, or like, actually having a DE or not lol

how'd you end up changing your mind to gnome

[tame lantern]

I was playing with other distros to see if I was sure on using OpenSUSE Tumbleweed and I tried out Fedora Workstation which comes with gnome by default, and I really liked how they had it setup, so then I tried Tumbleweed with gnome and I like it

my only experience beforehand with gnome was with ubuntu so understandably I thought it was shit

[ripe stream]

cool, that makes sense

[ripe stream]

LOL

the issues with ubuntu are relatively recent right? when I got into linux in like 2022, ubuntu was one of the big beginner ones

seems like that's changing cause of some Canonical thingamajigggies

[tame lantern]

its been a while since I used ubuntu outside of trying the server version, I'm not sure what's different now

it was probably 2023 I tried it

[ripe stream]

interesting

welp now i'm on debian and I think it's the equivalent of living in the woods and having nobody bother you with features or updates and i'm thriving LOL

no daily updates to knock down my tower of extensions...

[tame lantern]

I like to live a little more on the edge, but Arch is too much on the edge, hence why I'm using OpenSUSE Tumbleweed

I feel like its not grammatically correct to say "hence why"

[ripe stream]

yeah that makes sense

uhh my guess is "...edge, hence my usage of..."

or just use good ol ∴

[tame lantern]

that sounds better

[ripe stream]

yay

[tame lantern]

am I too young to know what this means or is my font making it look weird

[ripe stream]

it is in fact a dot pyramid

its a math related symbol that means "therefore"

and its cousin

∵

-# ("because")

[tame lantern]

australia has pyramids?

[ripe stream]

love using these for shorthand written things

[tame lantern]

I really love YaST, that's another reason I'm planning on using OpenSUSE

[ripe stream]

nah if it was australia you'd see a net around the dots to keep them from falling off the earth

[ripe stream]

oh cool, I had to google that

[tame lantern]

I do love me a good terminal but the GUI management and it all being together is too convenient to pass up

[ripe stream]

yeah totally

I'd otherwise be tempted to get more into linux and try a less stable distro, but the few times I've screwed up debian and was like
"if it werent for my windows partition id be screwed"

[tame lantern]

I'm impressed you've messed up debian

[ripe stream]

i'm good with my GUIs and stability when i need it. can't afford an outage to prevent studying/work/etc lol

[ripe stream]

see why I say to maybe not worry about my extensions instability stories?

I run a root user

I actually managed to "take ownership" of root and below and royally knocked out debian for a bit

(it was via a gui app, and i thought - because of the wording - that it would resolve my issues with not having permissions to access one of my partitions lol)

[tame lantern]

messing with partitions always really scares me

at least you didnt do something like this

[ripe stream]

LOL

shameful storytime?

i mean hey i take full responsibility for effectively chowning root, not gonna blame that one on extensions

[tame lantern]

thats mr linus tech tips wiping his desktop by installing steam if you havent seen the video

[ripe stream]

...how do

what

hu ?

[tame lantern]

it was a big oopsies on steams part I think, no idea how they can mess up that bad, but to be fair Linus could've avoided it by reading for 5 seconds