#Marketplace Design

250 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

sterile granite
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Funnily enough, cash items would probably be exempted from a price control system, and normal drops would be artificially depressed in price, making obtaining cash items as a F2P even harder lmao

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Also do you honestly expect Nexon to do a good job of micromanaging the economy? I have zero faith that they would be able to make any price control system that would make things better instead of worse

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I've played MMOs with a strictly managed economy and even the most well funded games ended up with a toxic divorce between the enforced economy and the actual economy

strange surge
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bdo mp have limits on cash shop items and its fine 🤷‍♂️

sterile granite
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I also don't want to let it go unsaid that the items you pictured cost an average of $230+tax or so of real money to acquire, players asking for a significant sum of gold in exchange is not unreasonable haha

burnt moon
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everybody knows NA server is inflated so

sterile granite
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I'm not even trying to sugarcoat it. The fact is that players don't pull gacha to give away the drops, they do it for themselves or to make gold. If prices are artificially dropped by Nexon, the people who pull for gold won't pull as much, making the items even harder to obtain than before

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Can you give a price that you would think is reasonable for a legendary tier outfit on EU?

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To be clear I'm not trying to trap you or anything, I'm just curious if you are willing to put a hard number on it rather than just complaining about prices

burnt moon
sterile granite
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The way I see it, you can just elect to not buy from players that are charging more than you like. The alternative is that the item very likely wouldn't be on the market at all, so it makes no difference in the end. At least with the current system, you are given the opportunity to acquire the item, even if the price is unreasonable

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I won't deny the fact that if there was a price maximum below the real market price, there would still be some items listed at that price anyway

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But the competition for buying those would be far fiercer and the quantity available would be far lower

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If the disparity was large enough, people would just trade the items off the market

burnt moon
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if they don't wanna fix it, then they should merge NA and EU, because this is happening due to low population mostly

sterile granite
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And as long as any sort of backdoor method for wealth transfer exists, people will charge more than the capped price

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Heaven forbid they cap the amount you can COD for, that would just invite a ton of scamming haha

sterile granite
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There would be ways to do it without hurting their revenue too much

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It would be a hell of a gold sink too lmao

strange surge
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also for how pointless would seem , selling the outfit box instead of the outfit would help to not have stuff not selling for ages and then ppl going " ah its old so its 5bil"

sterile granite
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Yes, please let us sell the destiny boxes Nexon

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In fact time to make a suggestion

strange surge
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yeah one of the 400 already made copium

sterile granite
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It was already suggested in the forum a year ago deadge

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Oh yeah another hilarious potential side effect of price controls on cash cosmetics: male outfits would get more expensive lmao

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They would probably pick the same price for outfits regardless of which sex can use them

strange surge
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gender equality

coral arch
timid wharf
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BDO mp sucks imo, the max price ppl can put an outfit or value pack for sale is farmed in 20 minutes in any grind spot, which leads to thousands of buy orders, and buying an item becomes RNG
in vindi I simply pay a price and done, no need to worry about RNG

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its one of the reasons that made me quit BDO so I dont want to see that garbage here

burnt moon
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Pretty sure nobody wants copy+paste BDO market design here, they still can determine min-max prices with the amount of gold that you wont be able to grind easily. For EU standarts, 250kk isnt an easy amount to grind if you aren't lucky with drops often for an example

timid wharf
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we could have the price chart of BDO where it shows the prices an item has been sold over the course of 3 months, to give ppl an idea of what price they should list the item for

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without enforcing anything, just for guidance

strange surge
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ppl wont follow that

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especially now that ppl is just used to list for 400m

sterile granite
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Yeah just having access to real sales data would be a huge QoL improvement and would stabilize prices at least somewhat

strange surge
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jsut cause a line will tell them " ehy this outfit got sold 20 times for 250m list for this price"

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they wont listen

timid wharf
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thats up to people, if I list an scroll and I see none on mp its nice to know the price it used to have days ago

sterile granite
strange surge
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cause ppl is greedy?

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and some whales dont care about buying for 400m tbh

sterile granite
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What matters is what people are willing to pay haha

strange surge
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ppl is willing to pay the right price , but what is the right price

sterile granite
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The point of a free market is to somewhat reliably match supply with demand by letting the participants dynamically adjust their prices until equilibrium is met

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If people are paying and supply is remaining steady, the number on the price doesn't matter, the market is in equilibrium

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Another important consideration is that one of the reasons why people whale for gold is because the time cost of making real money and exchanging it for gold is far lower than the time cost of making the gold in game. Forcing the price on cash items down means the value of time spent grinding is brought closer to the value of time spent earning real money. The closer they get, the less attractive whaling for gold becomes in general, which will push some people away from whaling altogether, and others into the black market

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Both of those outcomes directly lower then number of cash items that end up on the market

burnt moon
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don't worry, people will always cash out if in-game stuff is hard to get/achieve as long as they can afford it

sterile granite
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If prices of cash items were reduced by a factor of 10, I would never even consider acquiring cash items for the purpose of selling them haha

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Most whales would likely be the same

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Ofc I can only really speak for myself

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At best, grinding for gold in vindi has a cash equivalent value of around $3/hr, outside of Eisen/Taros, so it makes some sort of mathematical sense to spend money for gold if you make $15/hr+, but if grinding had a cash equivalent value of $30/hr, you'd need to be making $100+ irl for it to make some sort of sense, and most people making that kind of money don't have time to play games in the first place haha

mystic loom
sterile granite
burnt moon
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blows my mind away seeing people disagreeing on a balanced marketplace idea

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and a clown with no context, just face palming here

opaque meadow
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PepeLaff because its balanced in your POV. I want more gold for the outfits I pull.

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You'd happily charge me 300-500m for a mystic on NA yet I'm the greedy one cause I want to sell my outfit to get more value out of it?

burnt moon
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Thats why developers need to step in and put the values on items, airtight or not, but instead they don't wanna care and let the playerbase eat each other.

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But its so hard to see for this kind of community to see that i suppose

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Same logic with Kais, anybody who doesn't play the character finds it annoying cause of its design and people reflecting their annoyance/anger to kai player instead of dev team

opaque meadow
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cause Kai's kit by itself isn't that bad. It's the players that suck on it. They rather be in Narnia the entire time

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Majority of letty players fall into this same bucket

burnt moon
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Bow Kai does deal more damage if he puts a certain amount of gap between himself and boss

opaque meadow
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unless devs introduce damage fall off for being too far, the narnia players will stay in narnia

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theres nothing else the devs can do to fix the horrible game sense these kais/letty have

sterile granite
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Just look at the toxic housing markets where the majority of housing units are price controlled, waitlists often reach into the decades

/Politics

opaque meadow
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seeing the direction of removal on RNG for enhancing armor/weapons

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a market cap on items seems more plausible

mystic loom
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I am impressed with your ability talking to walls tho

sterile granite
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The trick is to be at work with nothing to do and a phone in my hand

opaque meadow
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I'm only seeing this topic come up when the "F2P" feels like they have to do more to get the outfit.

I still hold this same argument, if one mystic = one outfit, the "f2p" would never bring this up. but it'd sure suck for the swiper.

but because now you need 2-3 mystics to get one outfit, it's a problem? what if the devs say its 4 mystics to match the outfit cap price in their fixed marketplace pricings? would you accept it as it is?

burnt moon
opaque meadow
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it was a "what if scenario", it takes 2-3 mystics to get 450 coupon outfit in NA.

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but if it 1-1, I doubt this topic would ever come up

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because its favorable to the grinder to easily get what they want

burnt moon
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Been playing over a year, grinding daily on multiple characters, couldn't drop a single mystic so far

opaque meadow
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I'm just using mystics as an example of a high value item a f2p can get as its not stat locked like STDs

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I'm just showing the other side of the argument which Florrick point above. If you devalue outfits/cash items too hard, we won't have as many swippers

burnt moon
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Well the point isn't about devaluing cash shop stuff

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I'm not asking for that at least

mystic loom
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the one side people always tend to not even consider is the corporate business side

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always coming in here with lala land suggestions that would instantly and long-term make the devs lose revenue

burnt moon
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If they were successful enough, EU would have more playerbase in general, including more swipers

mystic loom
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no sane player will disagree with most of these changes, but none of it is based in reality

burnt moon
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But no, take it to the edge and charge people for 350$ for an outfit

sterile granite
burnt moon
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Balanced market doesn't mean devaluing cash shop items, let that sink in first

mystic loom
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we're talking about market capping vanity items... outfits for gods sake

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probably the only thing that shouldn't be regulated in a controlled market

sterile granite
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I'm all for Nexon getting less money for each cosmetic, but I get the feeling that Nexon isn't a fan of that

burnt moon
sterile granite
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There is a saturation point to be aware of as well

burnt moon
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Make 115 scrolls 20kk max on market and make 270kk max on legendary outfits, then how many times you gotta get lucky to grab an outfit from a swiper, for an example

sterile granite
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If you could directly buy tradeable outfits for $1 each, the effectiveness of whaling would be capped by the sheer lack of players to buy outfits too haha

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A rough estimate of NA population is around 2000-5000 players. If you generously pick the upper end of that, you can expect that each outfit has a saturation point of, at most, 10,000 copies, but really probably more like 2000 since not everyone has the same tastes, and we have clone boxes/dye slots

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So even if they dropped outfit cost to try and make them more affordable for F2P, they are likely not going to sell much more than 2000 of any one outfit no matter what the market looks like

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The economics don't work

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And that 2000 also includes sales from any potential reruns

burnt moon
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Again, I'm not saying they should make the outfits more affordable for f2p

sterile granite
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Ok, more affordable on the market*

burnt moon
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I'm not f2p either, I do swipe occasionally but playerbase doesn't know how to determine the value of specific items

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It's just bad when they have the mindset like "I'm gonna get more out of it because I swiped a lot" or "this time I wasn't lucky with boxes as much so I'm gonna get more out this 1 outfit"

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Then you gotta say to those dumbasses that they shouldn't gamble like that if they can't take it

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And on free market, they fuck the prices up because of their greedy behaviors

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Then another dumbass giving me an example out of mystic scroll about it

sterile granite
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Otoh if you have the one single instance of a specific item across the whole server, why should the game step in and say how much it's actually worth? It already does by imposing a 4b price cap on sales, though as the market currently stands, that's higher than any item can reasonably sell for haha

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Although I wouldn't be surprised if someone would be willing to cough up that much for something like a kof outfit these days...

opaque meadow
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PepeLaff this guy start name calling cause he has no real argument?

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they dont agree with me! time to mark them as dumbass and start calling names!

sterile granite
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Work is almost over, time to go home and list my outfits on EU for 1b

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As is my God given right

burnt moon
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I'm not calling names either

opaque meadow
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I'll said it before and I'll say it again.

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Players like you will happily overcharge as much as possible for items like Mystics

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but I'm the greedy one for doing the same with outfits?

burnt moon
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Who said I wanna overcharge people

sterile granite
opaque meadow
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it's the f2p pov.

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I can overcharge for ingame items but god forbid a swipper does the same with outfits?

burnt moon
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Whole feedback is about preventing every single player being overcharged about scammy/greedy behaviors of others

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But yeah, let's ignore that fact, give more mystic examples which is RNG over RNG

sterile granite
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Ironman vindi time, set your region to NL

burnt moon
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Guy wants to overcharge others automatically thinks I wanna overcharge people on the game

sterile granite
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I won't say the market system in vindi is particularly good, but a totally unregulated market is infinitely better than a badly regulated market. I'll try to make that my final word on this, but I know when I get home I'll be tempted to reply 😔

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I do not trust Nexon to regulate the market to the degree where it could maybe be healthier than an unregulated one

burnt moon
burnt moon
mystic loom
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me letting that sink in

opaque meadow
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PepeLaff let what sink in? The fact that this thread and those who support this regulated market will only accept it if they can easily get the cash items they want with the least gold possible?

I put it up there earlier, what if in this regulated market it became harder to get the outfits cause Nexon puts the value of items in a way you don't agree with? I'm sure I'll seeing more nagging because it just doesn't favor your POV.

burnt moon
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I would be fine with that, every one of us knows that this game is p2w as fuck anyway. Once again, I'm not asking for outfits for least gold possible in the first place. I wanna remove scammy/greedy behavior of the playerbase and regulated market would achieve that.

opaque meadow
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I keep bringing up outfits since one of your original points of your thread

I'm playing on EU servers over a year and what i've seen these days is that huge price increase on outfits and wings for no actual reason.

Clearly you have an issue with the price relationship between in-game gold to cash items.

Is it truely scammy/greedy? Do the prices of your scrolls/elixirs not scale with the price of outfits in EU?

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Is it the case where your elixir/scrolls prices are going down yet outfits are going up in price?

burnt moon
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Yeah, in game item prices going down while outfits/wings increasing in price on market

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That's what i imply with scammy/greedy behavior

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People are using low population as a tool to increase their gains, you can't do that on a regulated market

opaque meadow
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Sounds like EU hit a saturation point as Florrick mentioned then, swippers have no reason to keep swipping and sell low if they already achieved their goal in gears/etc.

Regulating the market won't change that.

Prices for outfits in NA continually dropped over the year from 700m-1b to 500-550m now due to people just trying to get quicker sales so they can keep going towards their gear goal.

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It's a simple POV then: As a gacha seller that is basically done gearing / reached the gear goal, for what reason would there be to continue swipping and then enter the undercut race with other gacha sellers?

Regulating the price won't change the behavior

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but it sure can deter future gacha sellers if they see the regulated market isn't properly managed

burnt moon
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Okay then, my bad for thinking about betterment of the community as whole

distant rover
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Everyone wants the market to be more regulated so prices don't become ridiculously high. But you gotta understand, Vindictus is a business first, player experience second game. That's how every Nexon endeavour works. If Nexon were to suddenly make it regulated, gold would be worth less, and people would stop buying gacha as much. Nexon could bring down their prices for gacha/coupons needed for pity, but then they would lose money either way. And no business is gonna go out of their way to lose money on purpose.

stiff matrix
echo furnace
lone sequoia
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I mean, an outfit's value is whatever someone is willing to pay. I get that you don't like the 300-450m outfits on EU, but if someone on EU is willing to pay that, then that's what they're gonna be listed for. Can't afford it, go farm. Don't wanna farm/pay that much gold, then I guess you don't truly want the item.

leaden marsh
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It’s quite laughable the fact you’re calling people dumbasses for calling you out. I’ve seen you sellling outfits overpriced too, and other items as well, so calling people greedy when you yourself is doing the same thing. Hilarious calling people names you know they are right 😂 I guess you’re just crying because you want cheap pixel tts to look at 👍 try touching grass once in a while.

distant rover
leaden marsh
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Perhaps, it’s just funny how he is being a hypocrite. haha and the fact that the moment he gets called out he resorts to name calling.

distant rover
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Sure he’s being a hypocrite, but if gold prices go up in the market, you need more gold to buy stuff. Ergo, his prices for outfits are raised to match the market. He’s only doing what everyone else does, otherwise he’d be left behind.

echo furnace
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that wasnt the case

leaden marsh
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Yea and that’s fair if you are sticking to the average of what players are listing, but when I saw his listings before, his outfit prices were almost twice of what people were listing.

echo furnace
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but CH_Sip

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i remember being called cheap cus i didnt wanna buy a 400kk bunny on mp by eu players lmfao

leaden marsh
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Lmao i was called greedy because I wouldn’t sell a female set for 80kk when average mp was about 200

echo furnace
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i hate dealing with people to sell anything, or buy so 9 tims out of 10 im gonna throw it on mp and leave it lol

leaden marsh
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Same 😂

sterile granite
echo furnace
sterile granite
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1b hello

echo furnace
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1.2 EvilSmug

sterile granite
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1.2b ok

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Will that be EU gold or NA?

echo furnace
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1.4 if ur feelin lucky

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eu wouldnt make a dent, i am sadly broke on NA for life Alpaca_Evil

burnt moon
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its not being hypocrite, if majority decides about a price on the free market, you have to follow to not to get behind

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but your brain cells arent enough to acknowledge that fact apparently

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and people are talking a lot here for a change they don't want to see, thats funnier cause their pants would be on fire when they see a regulated market apparently

echo furnace
burnt moon
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its something that free market brings

echo furnace
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Ah, kinda makes sense of it ig - that pricing is stupid but u also have to see it from the POV of if they DID introduce a regulated market then the prices for anything off-sale would actually get cucked way too heavy, theres a payoff of holding certain outfits for a while because some people genuinely will pay the insane price that it could potentially become which would put a few people off gachaing, or maybe as much (i speak for myself being one of them people who wouldnt coupon anything i didnt need to for myself anymore out of holding it for future) but the cringe part of EU atm isnt the 300kk coupons ive kinda come used to that for buying and selling even if its higher than id like it to be, the part thats actually cucking people is the fact someone will list something for like 500kk and its literally the most unpopular set and then people who are newer or returners see it and think it to be the norm, and trying to explain that it ISNT the norm makes u look like a liar - I've experienced it last gacha when I was buying male teddy pajama and someone listed one for 400kk and someone dropped one, i whisped and asked for the price and they had 0 clue other than the 400 one on market - they ended up selling for 170 (i probably overpaid due to lack of supply without that full gacha) but the price i paid was significantly less than the random one listed

burnt moon
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im not particulary saying "these items must be that price", it can be 300kk, 500kk, its whatever, what i want to see is that developers taking more responsibilities about marketplace, its even in the example that you've just given, someone new comes into the game, does some gachaing and the marketplace price is their first hint about an item

echo furnace
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honestly, due to the fluctuating popularity for some sets, they wouldnt be able to pinpoint any sort of price and it would discourage way too many people with gacha and well nexon wont ever do that

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theres some sets on first sale that just weren't selling nearly as well as others - kinda like the amount of people for example on eu u see buying epona vs the amount of people who want/have got brigid maybe apart from the fact eponas been sold a few times maybe divine saviors a better option but both combined probably equal the same amount of people ive seen buying brig

burnt moon
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also i've pointed it out before, EU is suffering mostly due to its low population, NA market is mostly fine about this

echo furnace
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some sets ive seen sell amazing on second/third resales but not the first, it always depends on players, market, the supply vs demand heavily impacts pricing too - if im the only one selling 450 coupons every few days ima keep the price ive been selling at cus why wouldnt i

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tbh EU isnt that low in population, its just EU is very very cliquey compared to NA and everyone kinda just sticks to themselves, or premades, we dont have as many whales as NA though theyve got the asia players with the whales lmao

burnt moon
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i mean there must be a reason why even asian players have chosen NA servers instead of EU and i believe thats population, even though they can only do battles on premade parties at least they've got a lively market with more people swiping

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and more active royal army battles/final fortress during the weekend

echo furnace
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From what ive spoke to of a few of them is that the pings just better, once a few go they all go and stick to eachother ig

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best part of NA is the all round royal esp for eu night owls like myself, NA bangs for that prayge

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bring back titan royal skip and make eu better again

burnt moon
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xD

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yeah im looking forward to royal changes as well, i feel tired on elchulus days

echo furnace
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tbh though, if my friends and i didnt have SO much invested in EU, id switch lol

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10000% id switch to NA

burnt moon
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same here

echo furnace
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idc for the market prices there, just got way too much invested in EU and i wouldnt wanna leave the people - maybe in future theyll eventually merge the two and the game would actually be better as an economy but its kinda coping copium

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would be good if they did it like FFXIV has it where NA and EU could just be 2 seperate regions within the same, and u can travel to both would be complicated but definitely worth it regarding the transfer of characters over even if it was paid to transfer

burnt moon
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im hoping for a merge as well, coping or not, dont really care, it'll be better marketplace and royal/FF wise like infinitely

echo furnace
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the only downside to EU and NA merging really apart from ping diffs etc would literally be the drama it would cause lmfao

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EU people are either really nice or really rude, and majority ive met on NA are nicer, normal and the occasional psycho like powerbaby but thats it - market wise i think it wouldnt be too different in most cases since EU is slowly on the rise in prices again meanwhile NA is somewhat declining in prices compare to EU ones but thats a supply/demand thing compare to EU supply/demand

burnt moon
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got nice people on both sides, agree that EU is on the rise cause they made people check out the game again cause of defying fate, ultimately it will be better if we can have whole playerbase on a single server, at least thats what i would like to believe

leaden marsh
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Are prices shit? Yes of course but it’s rich coming from you

burnt moon
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double became "way higher" now?

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believe it or not, i couldnt sell any outfit for 300 since i've started playing the game

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playing it actively over a year

echo furnace
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i sell coupons off the rack for 300 every gacha

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😭

leaden marsh
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And I’ve been playing for 2 what’s your point

echo furnace
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i used to buy/sell them like 200, then tbh whenever u was selling them for 300 nobody was buying for that at the time now its become the norm

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i sold 2 lots of coupons 300 within like the past 3 days

burnt moon
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max i was able to sell was 280

echo furnace
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honestly tho the people willing to pay it now, werent then

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max it was even going for at that time was like 250 for most people

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since the ac+ every gacha that people fiend over its got higher to hit 300 copium

leaden marsh
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I’m not talking about if you sell them or not, I’m talking about how you are going around shaming ppl who put high prices when you go higher

burnt moon
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where is the DOUBLE or WAY HIGHER?

leaden marsh
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You srsly asking for proof?

burnt moon
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if you dont have any kind of data, you gonna expect people to trust how you see it?

leaden marsh
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Oh yea sure I’m going to casually make up bs 🙄

burnt moon
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the way you imply im charging people for double the price was bs enough already

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now that you cant prove it, you're pointing out something else

leaden marsh
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I said you put listings up I never said you sold them did I

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There is a difference but you’re delusional lol

burnt moon
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then stop typing here if im delusional?

leaden marsh
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Then stop calling people dumbasses 👍

burnt moon
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everybody is entitled to their own opinion

leaden marsh
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That includes me then :]

echo furnace
burnt moon
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from my point of view is that if someone thinks that other person is delusional, then why would you try to reason with the person

leaden marsh
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I’m not reasoning with you, I’m calling your bs out

burnt moon
leaden marsh
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Yeh no response to use an emote 😂👍

burnt moon
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if you're finding certain individual's pricing bs on market and you want to call them out, feel free to do so, like've i said before, if you want to progress, you have to keep your prices on market's range and there was no double to begin with

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you're pulling some bs out of your ass more if you think im doing the same

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whole feedback post was about giving a feedback how you think that those are such a bs prices

pastel sage
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the ping really isnt that bad

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i did #1 dmg on taros in an asia boat hihi

plucky umbra
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Anytime there is enforced pricing it always goes bad. They tried that in countries and in fictional game marketplaces and the same problems always occur. Reduced supply. Why would people gacha for fixed price outfits when they can go to 3rd party websites and get more?

It's balanced in your mind because only you think to profit from it without the bigger picture.

gusty badger
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food for gold sellers chieftainbest

burnt moon
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people here are going for 3rd party sites anyway