server-plugins-read-only

[near raptor]

I think that we are all aware of how big of a problem cheating is on Minecraft servers

[civic mortar]

This is not minecraft.. lmfao

[warm viper]

let's remember how often minecraft updates, hmm... Once every 1-2 years? Lol

[true socket]

the hytale devs have acknowledged the anticheat situation isn’t good enough, I don’t know why you all disagree

[near raptor]

Minecraft's anticheat is also suuuuuuuper good

[tacit shoal]

cuz we can its called freedom of speech and own opinions matter

[civic mortar]

Are you reading to understand or just to answer? 😅

[warm viper]

This is expected to an early release on any game

[true socket]

I understand all of your opinions I just disagree with them

[tacit shoal]

so thatts ur opinion

[civic mortar]

It's ok then, but dont expect big cheating

[tacit shoal]

and we have our own opinion

[civic mortar]

we can disagree no problem

[tacit shoal]

problem is I dont think he understands that

[true socket]

yes, we don’t really know until the game actually releases, we will have to see if it it truely a problem although I suspect it will be

the game releases in 3 days let’s just wait and see

[near raptor]

Minecraft's anticheating is awful (I mean, it's barely present) meaning that people running servers have to spend a lot of time on their anticheats. I can't imagine that anticheat systems are super important at this stage of Hytale development. Maybe they come later, but for now they are focused on just releasing the game.

[visual remnant]

Hi guys! Do you know how can i host hytale server on my hardware?

[near raptor]

There will be a jar that you can execute on release day

[true socket]

yeah this is pretty much the case. I think when people think of cheating now they forget about the stuff like really broken speed/fly/infinate reach/etc cheats that all died out with simulation anticheats which we don’t have here

[tacit shoal]

u be very surrprised

good reason its not being shown on youtube yet

[tacit shoal]

no cuz game isnt out yet

[graceful coyote]

combat is not basic as csgo or minecraft

cheating is hard BUT REAL as well

[tacit shoal]

did u just compare combat from hytale to other games, lmfao

and CSGO for that matter

[warm viper]

Speed hacks are very easy to deal with. The server can validate based on the packets received for the movement

[tacit shoal]

CSGO doesnt even have combat lol

unless u counting the knife part

[graceful coyote]

you dont need to worry as much as minecraft, but you have worry if you'll have a big server

[graceful coyote]

?

[tacit shoal]

read the next part

[graceful coyote]

all competitive games has "combat" bro

[tacit shoal]

hence why i said earlier unless u publizing the server then yes u will have cheaters, but thats why u control who u want on the server, few friends or a discord multi-gaming community server.

[warm viper]

Fun fact, it's good to worry about these things. If you solved all your problems and cheating is the only thing you're worried then congrats, your server is successful

[near raptor]

What do we do in CSGO then if not for combat? Build houses and mine for diamonds?

[tacit shoal]

beg to differ

[graceful coyote]

this is not subjective.

[tacit shoal]

thats why I said unless u counting the knife. only combat there is point and click but is that consider fighting or shooting combat

[near raptor]

So shooting combat != combat?

[tacit shoal]

it is

[graceful coyote]

everything includes fighting is combat.

i mean "combat" is a mechanic, player versus player or player versus emulator fighting mechanic.

[tacit shoal]

nah thats not how that works

[graceful coyote]

yes it is

nevermind, this doesnt change anything, cheating in csgo is easy, because everything about "aiming" and "timing"

[tacit shoal]

there is shooting and fighting combat and most people look at fighting combat aka swords and where players are actually moving there full body instead of just aim and click to fire a gun.

[near raptor]

combat noun
/ˈkɑmbæt/

fighting or a fight, especially during a time of war

[graceful coyote]

it's same for minecraft

it's same for valorant, it's same for overwatch

i'm not talking about "skills"

[tacit shoal]

but CSGO is skill based though

[graceful coyote]

nah, i'm talking about hero skills

[tacit shoal]

which Minecraft is also depending on the server u on and possibly Hytale

[graceful coyote]

of course, but you can play better with cheats

[tacit shoal]

sooo u want to cheat

[near raptor]

I hope you don't play worse with cheats

[tacit shoal]

on day 1 for hytale is what u saying? to have skills

[graceful coyote]

i mean hytale is not a basic game that you can just use "aiming" and "timing"

[tacit shoal]

but u can

????

[near raptor]

On day 1 there will not be massive PvP servers or minigame networks with fighting. I think it'll be mostly some SMP / PvE whilst people are enjoying the game and figuring out what is all possible and not.

[tacit shoal]

its all about timing, since Hytale has move keys

[graceful coyote]

imagine that you're using an aim hack

[tacit shoal]

bro wants to use aim hack, lol

we can already tell hes a hacker, since he knows about this.

[graceful coyote]

In this scenario, if your opponent uses a dagger, you will struggle. If your opponent uses a sword, you will not struggle.

[tacit shoal]

what

ok im done here.

cant talk to dumb people on my day off

[near raptor]

okay then

[graceful coyote]

i am a contributor to one of minecraft's largest anti-cheat plugins.

[acoustic lance]

Hello, I am having difficulty purchasing the game. Where can I apply about this?

[near raptor]

Not in this channel. Depending on your problem, best to reach out to Tebex support.

[graceful coyote]

well, okay. in short, in a game with multiple and complex combat mechanics, a few simple cheat modules will be less functional than in simpler games.

[west elk]

https://support.hytale.com/hc/en-us

[velvet ginkgo]

Hello guys, I am not sure this is correct channel to ask but, is there local host in early acces. I mean can we play with just frineds wordl?

[near raptor]

Yup

[west elk]

yes, you will be able to self-host the dedicated server. You will also be able to simply invite your firends to you singleplayer world

[true socket]

do you work on grim?

[sterile robin]

depends in what you do no hitbox no damage ... infinite stamina...

[graceful coyote]

only translation

[velvet ginkgo]

Thanks a lot.

[velvet ginkgo]

thanks a lot

[graceful coyote]

but i gained a lot of knowledge about algorithms during this process

[graceful coyote]

yes, this is correct

[true socket]

oh, still nice

all of the people here who think cheating isnt an issue don’t realise that grim is the reason cheating hasn’t been as much of a massive issue in Minecraft for the last few years

[graceful coyote]

if you can effect server-side things, this changes everything

[true socket]

I really hope hytale at least supports transaction packets

[graceful coyote]

yes it is, i love how much it works

[summer otter]

you mean packets that you can rollback or do you mean translation?

[graceful coyote]

some ppl says grim is not enough for last updates but i'm not really following the plugin these times lol

[graceful coyote]

google "Java Edition protocol/Packets"

[near raptor]

It might take Grim some time to catch up to new ways to cheat with new mechanics, but I am sure they'll come around

[true socket]

not like database transactions

transaction packets in Minecraft are clientbound packets where when the client receives it it immediately sends it back to the server. Anticheats send it alongside regular game packets so that they can determine when the client received the packet in relation to the other serverbound packets

very necessary for simulation anticheats

[graceful coyote]

i dont think so, movement works pretty well, just they should not break the plugin.

[graceful coyote]

i mean it was working.

[summer otter]

aaah I see, we will see. Even though this is smart it only can give averages. But that is close enough

[graceful coyote]

some people say its not working now, idk

[near raptor]

An interesting thing with Hytale is that the server source code will be open-source after legal work is clear and they will accept contributions. So people could also add anticheat capabilities into the server software itself directly even if the Hytale devs don't have time for it now.

[summer otter]

yet the client is a different story

[near raptor]

Sure, but the server would have to be the authority on anticheat

If someone decides to customize their client in some way, not much that can be done

[graceful coyote]

it's pretty funny that minecraft did this after hearing that hytale was going to do it...

[near raptor]

Well, an anticheat could be added to the client too I guess, but those are often quite invasive

[humble abyss]

Is there any information on when serverfiles will be available?

[true socket]

the client being intentionally hard to reverse engineer is both good and bad to prevent cheating
good because it makes it harder to cheat, bad because it makes it harder for anticheat devs to understand the precise mechanics needed to simulate stuff

[mortal lance]

Do we have documentation or not yet?

[graceful coyote]

that would be completely against this “sandbox.”

[near raptor]

I don't think that Mojang are open-sourcing their server jar. Sure, they removed obfuscation (which they started doing a while ago by releasing the mappings), but open-sourcing, no.

[graceful coyote]

i think they'll.

removing the obfuscation could be preparation for something, i dont know.

[true socket]

the only real big difference between shared source and not obfuscated no source is that hytale will likely accept contributions
Minecraft wouldn’t do that anyways

[near raptor]

Nah, Mojang have no reason to open-source their server software at the moment. But officially their codebase is closed source, you cannot view it in some git repo or distribute it yourself.

Removing obfuscation simply makes modding easier (I mean, we already were not really bothered by it after they started releasing the obfuscation mappings as things like Paper run against Mojang-mappings)

[true socket]

remember that open source and source available is not the same thing, hytale server wont be open sourced, only source available

[graceful coyote]

yea actually you're right

[near raptor]

Hytale server wwill be open-sourced, this is confirmed

Its source being available on a git repo and accepting contributions is pretty much the definition of open source

[true socket]

it’s shared source that isn’t the same thing

yeah it’s close enough but I still don’t like how everyone calls it open sourced

[near raptor]

Hm, I guess so, it depends on the license which is not yet known because they're still working out the legal side of things

[graceful coyote]

it would be interesting if coders had their own platforms where they could contribute. a plugin-maker could publish their plugin and receive contributions, just like on github. that would really be next level.

[near raptor]

Wouldn't GitHub just be the place for this?

[true socket]

how is this different to… github

[graceful coyote]

will be embedded within the game

[true socket]

nah I think github already has a good system going for this, we don’t need another thing to compete with it

[near raptor]

I'd rather not see some semi-proprietary system to managing version-controlled code / assets

Git is perfectly fine for this purpose

[graceful coyote]

or maybe a github page that works within the game, though this would make finding hytale content within a HUGE pool more difficult.

[true socket]

just a simple link to the github page if they want to provide one is enough

[west elk]

I don't see a reason why they would want to re-invent source control

[near raptor]

Especially not something so industry-standard as git

[dull violet]

Good evening, have you received any more information about server management? We've had very little information on this subject so far, and I would have liked to know a little more before release if any of you know anything.

[graceful coyote]

yea, maybe just a git alternative related to hytale was on my mind.

[near raptor]

I'd be very against using such a platform

Development time is better spent on things that aren't reinventing well working systems

Oh the launcher is now downloadable

[true socket]

yep

[graceful coyote]

yea its for so long

[true socket]

is it just the windows one rn or are all the launcher platforms out (I can’t check rn)

[graceful coyote]

like 2 or 3 hours, just late announcement

[graceful coyote]

just windows

[west elk]

Only that the server will be packaged as a .jar file that you will need Java 25 to run. The default port will be 5520/udp (quic). The server will need to be authenticated to a Hytale account that owns the game. The .jar will be downloadable either via the Launcher, or via a standalone "hytale-downloader" cli tool

[true socket]

the only thing im more worried about than cheaters rn is ddos protection because there is absolutely no ddos protection services for hytale right now

[graceful coyote]

its same for minecraft

you have to find a way lol

[dull violet]

Thank you so much for this answer. I was just wondering about the required Java version, and it's great to already know the port. I'll get everything ready for Tuesday. How did you get this information?

[buoyant scaffold]

the answer is probably the same as minecraft as well, using haproxy

[true socket]

yeah but now people just use ddos protection services for Minecraft like cloudflare spectrum or tcpshield, but nothing for hytale exists yet

[graceful coyote]

there's really good alternatives that protects YOUR server, not the hytale server

i heard that microtic is a good option

[west elk]

Via Slikey on Twitter

[true socket]

yea it might be worth proxying to another node, but then that node needs to be protected instead right

[buoyant scaffold]

you can setup 'ddos protection' inside of haproxy

[dull violet]

Has he already provided advice on RAM and CPU based on the potential number of players? Or should we assume we're using Minecraft as a reference for now?

[near raptor]

A haproxy node could act to hide the IP address of actual server nodes. So yes, if the haproxy gets DDoSSed, it could absorp the traffic. If you still are having issues you can point to a different haproxy node. And well, I guess you can host on some platform with DDoS protection like OVH.

Cloudflare Spectrum is $$$

[buoyant scaffold]

yeah what you're asking for exists essentially, but what you're actually asking for is a service to take care of this for you - the answer (ATM) is cloudflare spectrum - I'm sure more will pop up after hytale is released

[true socket]

yeah but you can still saturate the network of the edge node right

[graceful coyote]

Oh, do you know if there's something like a resource pack?

[graceful coyote]

for changing something already exists?

[buoyant scaffold]

you don't understand how haproxy works - you can configure it specificlly to mitigate these types of attacks

[west elk]

@dull violet
Minecraft as a reference is a good starting point. We did not get a lot of benchmarking information yet. See this 👆 post for some analysis for exploration/adventure style servers (as those will be heavy on world-generation with players being spread out). For minigame servers that have people closer together on a fixed map, you can expect RAM to be less of an issue

[near raptor]

Question though, haproxy doesn't seem to support UDP in their community version, only in their Entrprise version it does.

[edgy elbow]

do we have any specifics on server features?
I'm mainly curious to see if we have exportable metrics (player count, tps, resource usage, etc)

[edgy elbow]

nginx maybe

[west elk]

Nginx's quic support is heavily bundled into HTTP/3 and not really usable for this

[edgy elbow]

nginx can forward the stream though, do the servers use quic?

[near raptor]

Hytale uses a custom QUIC protocol

[edgy elbow]

oh

[west elk]

yeah but if you're treating it as an opaque stream, then you can't route it based on CID

[edgy elbow]

wait
as in they modified quic
or the protocol runs over quic

[dull violet]

Thank you for your help, it answered my questions! I wish you a pleasant evening and a great Hytale adventure if we don't have the chance to chat again. As for me, I'm going to work on my server 🙂

[west elk]

the latter

[near raptor]

The protocol runs over QUIC, but it is (obviously) not HTTP/3

[west elk]

Here's the reference example

[true socket]

im not experienced with ddos protection strategies but can anything at all be done if the ddos has enough bandwidth to saturate the edge node/s network/router before haproxy even gets the packets

[worthy plaza]

oh hi Dani!

[west elk]

Yooo 👋 :D

[cold holly]

Does anyone know if they're going to release the files for hosting servers before the launch so infrastructure owners can prepare for the 13th?

[worthy plaza]

Homies in the wild... lol

[edgy elbow]

I found something that might work
on github, there's a project (cant post links)
nginx-quic-lb by martinduke
candidate?

[cold holly]

?

[slate marsh]

I am womdering this as well

[graceful coyote]

i dont think so, release files can be using for pre-play the game

[west elk]

I am not familiar with any of them. @steep lion had some success testing rust-rpxy-l4 with a placeholder setup

[cold holly]

Not for servers. They are only for hosting. They are not the game itself.

[west elk]

But keep in mind that since Hytale will support transfer packets (+ custom payload) from the start, you won't need a reverse proxy for most use-cases

[edgy elbow]

I figured, someone was talking about load balacing and I was curious
I'm self hosting so I'll just hook up wireguard on my vps lmao (they can deal with the traffic)

[tulip wadi]

ddos protection is host level not game server level, so that shouldnt be an issue

[west elk]

No, the server .jar will only be released with the rest of the game on Tuesday. They don't have the technical ability to do a staggered release.
CC @slate marsh

[cold holly]

At least it will be on the day... do we have a time yet? I'm a bit out of the loop.

[west elk]

There is a countdown on the store page, but Simon said that it should be treated as a placeholder

[frigid rampart]

Hello. Is there any information about user servers in early access? Will we get an API and the ability to create servers?

[cold holly]

@frigid rampart

[graceful coyote]

uh didnt see "for hosting servers" part, okay then

[west elk]

Yes, we will be able to self-host the dedicated server right when the game comes out on Tuesday. The server .jar will be used as the API for custom plugins 👍

[pseudo dove]

I can't wait to create plugins/mods in hytale

[cold holly]

me too

[frigid rampart]

This is great news, thank you!

[scenic edge]

server jar release?

[west elk]

Tuesday, together with the game

[scenic edge]

thanks

[cold holly]

I'll set up the environment here, just to have it ready so I can simply add the JAR file and start it up.

[boreal pasture]

What are the requirements for the server so I can run the server?

[west elk]

Java 25

[lilac token]

Will hytale make use of SRV records? Anyone know what it might be?

[compact kestrel]

Hey are u a pluginner? Can I add you to my friends? (I’m Italian)

[west elk]

No, unfortunately not. There is no solid C# library for DNS that properly implements them cross-platform and they didn't have time to implement it from scratch

[lilac token]

Ah Shizzz ty for response, So when creating a server i assume players need to use play.your.domain:udpport

[west elk]

Unless you run the server on the default port, 5520

[near raptor]

I would guess the default port gets added if not specified

[unkempt plover]

Do they plan on releasing the jar with a docker file or some sort of containerization? I'm just worried about the security of the system. I plan on running it on a separate VM, but having integration with Pelican/Pterodactyl would be nice.

[west elk]

no, but you can just put it into a plain java container

[edgy elbow]

you can use a java25 image and bring in the files via volume, it's what I plan on doing anyway

[candid orbit]

will have anti cheat on pvp severs

[dusk gazelle]

thats basically no effort as soon as you have the jar
I'm sure that pelican egg maintainers will be quick to create an egg (or anyone else)

[pulsar verge]

So nice

[unkempt plover]

Yeah, I forgot that java bundles all of it's dependencies in the jar. I'm too used to c/c++ land.

[sterile robin]

java version?

[boreal pasture]

I set up a Pelican server using the generic Java egg, but you have to use a custom image because it doesn’t support Java 25 yet. Just use the image from pterodactyl

[candid orbit]

a print of the sever stats leaked

[west elk]

25

[quasi trellis]

1

[cold holly]

56 cores, 128GB of RAM, and 4TB of NVMe should be enough, lol

[fluid coral]

What is the scripting language?

[west elk]

there will be visual scripting, no text-based scripting

[fluid coral]

ohh

too bad

[eternal summit]

None at all?

[cold holly]

But from what I've seen, there are some JSON configuration files for more specific things.

[west elk]

see the modding strategy blog for their justification

[summer otter]

how fast are the cores and how modern 👀

[west elk]

https://hytale.com/news/2025/11/hytale-modding-strategy-and-status

love that they whitelisted hytale.com links from the automod

[eternal summit]

"Server Plugins - Java .jar files" jar is just a java archive? 🤔

[west elk]

yes, an archive of compiled java code and resources

[cold holly]

Server Plugins - Java .jar files
Extend the functionality of the server programmatically.
Extremely powerful and allows deep modifications to the gameplay experience and core server system.
Use them to build minigames, economies, commands, custom logic, new asset type, and more.

Data Assets - JSON files
Drive gameplay behaviour and define core content:
Blocks, items, NPCs
World generation
Drop tables, loot, and more.

Art Assets - Sounds, models, textures
Provide the visual and audio representation of game elements.
We support Blockbench for creating Hytale models, textures, and animations.

Save Files - Worlds and Prefabs
Share whole worlds or specific builds.
Prefabs are used in creative tools and world generation to place prebuilt structures like trees, houses, or large landmarks.

[eternal summit]

So we can write mods in just java? or?

[dusk gazelle]

its actually a zip file

i think

[eternal summit]

Some sort of compressed archive yeah, same as PHAR files

[west elk]

Yes, we will write custom code and functionality in Java. That will work similar to Minecraft/Spigot plugins

[cosmic pond]

This will be added as a dependency to your project, like any other Java/Kotlin library

[dusk gazelle]

no i mean its literally a zip

[eternal summit]

Extensions don't exist :)

[cosmic pond]

I will create the template and publish it on GitHub

[unkempt plover]

I also plan on making a nix development flake and publishing that as a gist.

[cosmic pond]

That's good

[dusk gazelle]

i was talking about the format

[lone dawn]

Even t he code of the game it is inside github lol theres no reason for a extra platform

[green atlas]

Has anyone heard if hytale's server will be able to run on debian?

[west elk]

It will run on anything that runs Java

which i heard may be more than 7 devices

[tawdry ocean]

i hope so honestly, i have two home servers that are ready for use 😄

[restive heart]

Hytale runs on java?

[lone dawn]

Yes

[west elk]

Yep, Java 25

[restive heart]

The client C# and server java?

[west elk]

The client is C# (AOT-compiled), the server is Java (unobfuscated!)

[graceful coyote]

Hytale *servers * runs on Java.

[restive heart]

unobfuscated is fire, but why choose java...

[near raptor]

Why not choose Java?

[granite raptor]

because the whole team come from minecraft

[restive heart]

That I understand

[woven tendon]

Is the server going to run like a minecraft server jar?

[weary linden]

Anyone have already server access and hytale? doing some pluging to improvement on server to runs better with more players?

[west elk]

Great tooling, natively multiplatform, solid performance, easy to extend via mods, the Hypixel team has extensive experience in writing performant Java server code, and a good chunk of the target audience is also familiar with it

[west elk]

yes, very similar

[woven tendon]

Awesome Im going to look into make a pelican egg

[rich solar]

Thats what I made. Can also just use the generic java 25 egg

[weary linden]

Let's do the pelican panel, against pterodactyl lol

[woven tendon]

XD

[woven tendon]

Oh soo when very similar we dont have need a fully custom egg then?

[rich solar]

Nah you can run it with just generic java until a more stylized one is made. Which the main team from pelican, parker I guess is already making one? Although that is just what I heard on the vine

[restive heart]

Alright, understandable. I kinda assumed that would be the case, just hope it won't be a mess like mc. Looking forward to it

[limpid cipher]

Hi, this might not be the best place to ask, but does anyone know how to host their own Hytale server on a debian 12 qemu under proxmox?

[rich solar]

yes

[west elk]

java -jar HytaleServer.jar

[restive heart]

Just install java on it, and then run the jar

[still mist]

The items shown in the latest video, like food, potions and storage items, are those already in the game or are they from mods?

[west elk]

Those are vanilla items from what I could tell

[limpid cipher]

Awesome, thanks everyone, much appreciated 🙂

[random briar]

Do people who make plugins/mods get access to the game or they have to wait till 13th as well?

[winter sierra]

another java moment

[rich solar]

Normal port rules like the mc server will be required. But UDP is what hytale will use

[west elk]

We have to wait

[still mist]

I feel like those are mods because so many items

[woven tendon]

Okay so im assuming the server jar will be release on the 13 or shortly after

[rich solar]

The base game has a lot of entities just not all of them are ready for release. But exist in the entitiy explorer

[rich solar]

Yes

[stone cedar]

well some people got exclusive access i think

[west elk]

Will be released together with the game. You'll be able to download it from the Hytale launcher

[woven tendon]

Oh thats actually awesome

[west elk]

Yes but they asked about us (in general), not the early testers ^^

[stone cedar]

oh yeah ok then yeah

[languid pollen]

I have a question. If Hytale made the client in C#, why didn't they make the server in C# too?

[west elk]

Java has great tooling, is natively multiplatform, solid performance, easy to extend via mods, the Hypixel team has extensive experience in writing performant Java server code, and a good chunk of the target audience is also familiar with it

[cursive goblet]

uh

that be bad

harder to make mods too

[languid pollen]

the multiplatform and performance aspects and tooling are applicable to C# too

Idk how modding is for C# tho

I know C# works with it cus Terraria is written in C# and TModloader mods are done in C#

[west elk]

yeah the last two points are deciding ones in this case

[languid pollen]

So the tldr is they are familiar with Java?

[west elk]

yeah they made Hypixel ^^

[languid pollen]

k thx for letting me know

[wheat vale]

pretty much yes the og hytale team start out as pretty high tier modders i know that bdcraft was involved and the people from worldedit were involved so we are talking that high tier modders ofcourse a lot of hypixel devs were involved so you got a lot of very indepth java knowledge and due to their common background kind of gamedevelopemnt knowledge

it would be very questionable if they did not chose java iirc the original engine the used also was in java i dont know how that is now

who actually was on the original team i know they were a team of VERY well known modders i mean we all had sphax at some point in our lives
EVERY server has worledit and if they are serious world guard
and we dont need to question if the hypixel devs know what they are doing iirc they are doing some custom java voodoo stuff on hypixel i never will be understanding

[sharp lake]

do you have a source for bdcraft's involvement?

[wheat vale]

i saw some tweets of him

i will not try to find them

[sharp lake]

sphax84*.bsky.*social

I worked on @strange ether*.*com during its early-development days, when almost the whole team was racing toward a still-evolving vision. We spoke daily and held “show-and-tell” meetings every Monday—everyone buzzing to demo the week’s breakthroughs.

1/9

oh i pinged a bot lol

i didn't know sphax was still in the game and active on social media, that's interesting

[wheat vale]

alot of really well known modders were involved in hytale actually
thats what almost killed it the first time too much motivation to just make cool stuff without an end in sight

[sharp lake]

yeah i know that much, i'm just surprised some of the old names haven't retired yet lol
hypixel himself is already retro enough

it's like how modmuss is still at it with the fabric project, actually nuts

[wheat vale]

i mean bdcraft still does sphax to my knowledge

i mean for the sake of it the optifine guy also still does optifine

[late root]

Guys have they released instructions on how to host your own server yet?

[wheat vale]

would it make sense for them to do so if there is not client to join it with yet?

i dont recall them posting anything like that

[late root]

Makes sense thanks, just making sure I didn't miss anything

[wheat vale]

they probably dont want to do the same mess alot of other games do where do it horribly and need to revise it 15 times before you can even trust the docs at all

[pine ermine]

having instructions like what is needed (cpu, ram) would be great, atm we only have the storage for a world

[wheat vale]

ok that fair

[pine ermine]

if it can run on linux, what runtime (jdk 21? 11...)

we'll see in two days probably

[wheat vale]

i would baldly assume it will have the same requirements as hytale itself?

[pine ermine]

iirc, the client is C#, and the server is java

[wheat vale]

yea true there was that

[pine ermine]

server might not need a gpu too

[late root]

Client is C#? Thought it was java

[pine ermine]

probably high frequency cpu (like gaming cpu, ryzen or intel core ?)

[wheat vale]

i would hope so

gpu for a server would be pretty wild

[rocky swan]

from my knowledge I've collected around here, it'll require jdk 25

[modest blade]

runtime != jdk
but its 25

[wheat vale]

most recent would make sense though

[pine ermine]

yes it's C#, when riot buy the game they try to "c++" all of the game lol

[wheat vale]

technically both are bundled now anyways
from my experience you dont get one without the other

[pine ermine]

maybe gpu could help for ai bots or smth like that, but i don't think they implmented that

it's not "that important" for a first start

[pine ermine]

thanks for your reply mate! latest (lts) version :D

[wheat vale]

you could make a damn fast world gen with it

like really damn fast 👀

[pine ermine]

well, i try to do that in minecraft, it was so damn hard, and some things were just not possible (the performances was so bad), all of the villages etc

gpu is not mean for that tbf so

[wheat vale]

but i really dont feel like messing with pci config again so that my home server has a gpu
and i really dont need to upgrade my vps with a gpu i am not that rich

[pine ermine]

if they do and its works great, that would be crazy <3

[wheat vale]

they technically not, not meant for it either
the best example i got is star citizen it does alot of world loading stuff on the gpu or atleast plans to move it there
generating the world should be a thing a gpu might even be pretty good at if you do it right

especially if you do it like minecraft with noise

[chilly jewel]

do we know if the server is multi threaded?

[pine ermine]

yay, hopefuly nvidia is now "supported" (very good support i mean) in linux, sooo it's not that complex now but, if you're with proxmox or hypervisor, gpu passthrough could be a pain sometimes

[wheat vale]

while nvidia is support in linux they dont support us anymore 👀

[west elk]

It is 👍
But we don't yet know all the details about what is scheduled to run where

[wheat vale]

heck yea i like reading that

[pine ermine]

AHAHAH, imagine you have dual EPYC 9965, 192c/384t each, the world will be generated in ms

I hope we would not need something too hard to deploy the server, and a good API to link easily all of our system (database, storage etc)

[wheat vale]

the modern way would be to just through a docker image out there

from my pov it would be the most comfortable way to since i am putting it in docker anyways its just the work i need to put into it or not

[latent thunder]

Hi i have a question
I may be stupid but i think i'm missing something
for the "mods" are the "Data Assets - JSON files" the thing most people regard as mods for minecraft ?

Also i know this game is more rpg and stuff but if someone wants to make a tech mod with for exemple a machine with custom inventory and behaviour would they be able to do that and how with a json ?

and if they fall under "Server plugins" do the clients have to have the plugins too

[near raptor]

There is a tweet from Simon where he demonstrates a mod with factorio style grabbers to do automation

[latent thunder]

hence there how i dont rly understand the whole shabang

[latent thunder]

ok but would that be A "Data asset-Json File" or "server plugin" ?

[near raptor]

A mod

[silver cloak]

With .json files you will be able to modify weapon damages and other item capabilities.
If you want extra functionalities you have to learn JAVA. The hytale api is basically spigot. Same architecture... drag n drop

[near raptor]

Mods can have a server part and a client part (via assets), I'm guessing this one might be both?

[latent thunder]

i'm referring to the 4 content categories https://hytale.com/news/2025/11/hytale-modding-strategy-and-status

does a mod / can a mod contain multiple of those at the same time for hytale ?

[near raptor]

Yes

[latent thunder]

ok i understand better now

[west elk]

"Mods" is the aggregate term for two types of game modifications:

• Plugins (Java .jar files)
• Asset Packs, or just Packs for short (textures, models, sounds, behavior definitions in .json files, etc)
  Mods may consist only of a Plugin (mechanic changes, commands, QoL, etc.), only of a Pack (new blcoks, mobs, cosmetics, etc.), or both!

[latent thunder]

and how will client compatibility work ?
will "server plugins" be able to be server only and the other way around too or not ?

[near raptor]

Mods can contain various assets that are sent to the client, those assets can communicate back to a server plugin if needed. And a mod without any assets being sent to the client can be considered a "server plugin" like you would have in Spigot.

"server" is a bit of a confusing word maybe. When you play singleplayer, a local server starts up that you connect to (same as in Minecraft). So these server plugins aren't limited to only Multiplayer.

[latent thunder]

yeah i'm familiar kinda with mc modding

but what i mean is for exemple with bukkit you had server plugins that didnt need to be downloaded by client

will that be a thing for hytale too ?

[near raptor]

server plugins in Hytale stay on the server, you cannot write Java code that is executed on the client like you do in Minecraft.

[west elk]

Mods are always installed on the server, never on the client. When a client connects to a server, it automatically downloads all asset packs from the mods the server has installled

[latent thunder]

kay

wouldnt that mean heavy load times if mods get big ?

like if you have to download mods each time you join a server
if modpacks become / will even be a thing

in mc current mod folders are like 400-500 mb large

for big packs

[west elk]

Hytale has some solid caching so if you've downloaded an asset pack in the past, the client will only check the hash to make sure it hasn't changed and then be able to skip the download

[latent thunder]

okay

other stupid question
are mods like marketplace driver or file driven for servers

[near raptor]

There will not be a Marketplace kind of system at launch, they are "file driven" (as in, you add mods to your server files)

[latent thunder]

okay

sorry for all the questions i havent rly looked into hytale before and am looking to launch a server with a group of friends when it launches

[near raptor]

Understandable. There is also no official documentation out yet, so all the answers to these kind of questions are based on either confirmed news or on very good assumptions of how things will work.

[latent thunder]

when you say at launch do you mean it's intended to be done later or planned or an idea or just maybe some day ?

was thinking kind of like factorio iirc

[near raptor]

I think that there were plans for it, but it is just not a priority in early access right now. So maybe some day

[latent thunder]

i ask that bc i thought it would have one cause i heard ( maybe i daydreamed ) there would be a way for mod devs to have better remuneration than current CF or other platforms

[near raptor]

For now, CurseForge is a confirmed partner where mods will be available. Other platforms might pop up, and an in-game tool might be added later as well.

[latent thunder]

also other stupid question can mods ( client ) alter the game UI before joining a world ?

as far as you know causei know that would be speculative at best rn

[near raptor]

Yup, there is a UI framework (NoesisGUI) where you can create your own UIs in that players can interact with

[latent thunder]

oké

well thanks for everything

[west elk]

nah they're asking if the ui in the main menu can be changed

[near raptor]

Oh the UI in the main menu you cannot change as far as I am aware

[latent thunder]

oh ok

[west elk]

Since client-side mods are not possible and a server/single player mod can only affect things while you're connected

[latent thunder]

would mods be configurable on world creation in singleplayer ?
like a settings tab for exemple if a mods adds a biome and some settings to change generation what structures are enabled and stuff ?

[near raptor]

Simon tweeted the world creation / world settings UI today, and in there was a "Mods" section

[latent thunder]

nice

and i think last question then :
Would server creation / management be possible via a UI like satisfactory or would it be by "hand" with files and text configs like mc kinda ?

[near raptor]

For hosting a dedicated server, the latter for sure. But for opening a local server / singleplayer world to some friends, unsure, I think that might be possible via in-game.

[latent thunder]

was thinking for dedicated yes

did you play satisfactory ?

[near raptor]

Yes, I think that is somewhat different

[west elk]

Yep. there is the dedicated server you manage standalone (not from within the game), and then there is the ability to invite your friends to your singleplayer world. Two different way to manage a server

[static shadow]

anyone gonna make a server? lemme know @

[wheat vale]

dude do you know what you just did?
i can already hear the 500 server owners preparing to make this chat unusable again

[near raptor]

Actually, it might be similar to Satisfactory, as that also has both options. But I never really touched the server files for a Satisfactory server, I would normally get one from a host provider for a month or so to play on with some friends.

[full sleet]

sooo hytale is running on java 25?

[west elk]

if anyone wants to make a server, please DM @static shadow instead

[wheat vale]

this ^
crisis evaded

[rough verge]

Important to note, they are both technically a server. Even if you're playing in a singleplayer, behind the scenes a server instance is spun up. So all mods that work on your server, work in your singleplayer as well.

[west elk]

yep!

[static shadow]

🥀

[latent thunder]

for exemple you create a server ( assuming vanilla for now ) on a dedicated
you connect to it on the client by "server manager" and you can manage it :

• create saves have the logs change passwords and admin password
• create the first world
• manage saved wolds and sht

[near raptor]

Oh no, I don't think that will be possible with a dedicated server. You would have to go to the files for now

[latent thunder]

okaye

[wheat vale]

i wonder how much stupid engineering i can invest to make a hytale server grafana integrated 👀
i did that with my minecraft servers as well
its kinda a hobby of mine to just overengineer the hell out of stuff like that 👀

[latent thunder]

no issues i'm used to it with mc
but would have been nice for newer ppl

[near raptor]

It will be more of a Minecraft way of working

[near raptor]

Might not be so difficult if we can get Micrometer/Prometheus data out of a server, would be nice idea for some plugin. Though there's also always the JVM metrics you can get out of a JVM.

[latent thunder]

i might make one but the community would be mostly french sorry ( not that i dont want others jst that the current ppl are fr )

[west elk]

there might be mods to do server management from within the server then. See @wanton ocean's AdminUI mod for example on their twitter!

[wheat vale]

i mean the only thing we realisticly need would be the modding api to expose those metrics the rest is just writing the plugin for it
true the jvm also exists we should be able to allways get to the jvms metrics

[west elk]

I would think that this will be relatively painless. Especially if you use Nitrado's Query plugin as a base

[near raptor]

The Minecraft network I do development work for has this as well, we just have JVM metrics as well as a plugin that collects metrics on e.g. player counts.

[wheat vale]

oh there is no way i am going near nitrado
i got my own server setup for that

nitrado is the most expensive game server hoster i know of

[west elk]

It'll be open source and not linked to their service at all

[near raptor]

Ah no, Nitrado is making a plugin for an embedded web server

[fathom sonnet]

Nitrado is way too expensive anyway

[wheat vale]

yes exactly

[latent thunder]

bisect ?

[wheat vale]

i dont think i ever looked at their prices

i mean in the end every managed game server is comicly expensive
and its still a good thing they exists because not everyone should be expected to just know how to use linux to host stuff
i remember i kind of ended up as game hoster after some of my friends asked if i could do servers for them and i just kept upgrading stuff

now i got my nice and vps and a fully setup hosting panel with everything one would need

[latent thunder]

pebblehost is somewhat cheap

[near raptor]

The cheapest will always be to self-host. I can't really say much about the prices of host providers, never used them for Minecraft. Only once or twice for some other games.

[fathom sonnet]

I know one that's really good for only $1/GB on Ryzen 9s.

[latent thunder]

same

[wanton ocean]

hi 😊

I should be paying you for the promotion

[west elk]

You are paying me in reference implementations!

[wanton ocean]

well, in 3 days

[west elk]

yep

[fathom sonnet]

I got a physical server but considering the cost of powering it i think it might be cheaper to use the host i have found.

[near raptor]

In 3 days the gates will be opened and this chat will probably get a lot busier

[fathom sonnet]

It will probably be unreadable for a bit.....

[latent thunder]

can i dm you ?

[fathom pelican]

for self fhosting, anyone got any setup ideas ? i would usually use a rasberri pi but im not too sure that would work too well even for ~8 people.. havent really hosted a game before. just makes more sense vs paying a vps i think

[latent thunder]

do you have a spare old desktop ?
like old office pc ? ( optiplex or other )

[near raptor]

Old PC hardware might be suitable

[fathom pelican]

i used to, i considered building a cheap rig but with ram thats no longer a possibility

[latent thunder]

can still get an optiplex with 16g for 80 bucks on ebay

less than the price of the ram

[near raptor]

I luckily have an old desktop PC laying around with alright specs (i5 9th gen, 32GB of RAM), I'm sure it can manage

[fathom pelican]

thats an idea, i guess then its just setting up port forwarding

[latent thunder]

( might wanna buy a new ssd tho ) idk what hytale server specs recs are but mc needed ssds to be playable imho

[latent thunder]

yeah

or just something on facebook marketplace near you

most of the time it's cheaper than a pi + case + power + sd card

[near raptor]

I would only use it for local development, which granted I can also just do on my own PC

I'd rather not open my own home network to the outside world like that

[fathom sonnet]

Yeah, less open ports on your network the better.

[latent thunder]

i may be lucky but i'm yet to have issues 2 years in having a dmz to my home server lol

granted all non game server ports are firewalled

[near raptor]

I would open some stuff to my home server setup, were it not for my shabby ISP router/modem combi. Maybe once I get a more proper router I would consider it.

[static shadow]

you making ur own server?

[latent thunder]

yeah as i pinged you above i may but i'm french and the rest of the ppl playing it will be too not that i dont want others but it might be hard communication wise

[static shadow]

ah okey nvm

[west elk]

Are you trying to fill out a server list or something, Luis?

[pine ermine]

I hope the mods part is secure, I see the mods can be downloaded when connecting to the server, if a mods is a virus or smth like that, you don't have any verification or smth ?

[latent thunder]

pretty sure a mod can only interact with what the game gives him so worst case if done well it can crash your game by lag

[near raptor]

Mods do not contain executable code that runs on the client

[warm viper]

Guys I have 2 questions:

1. Is open world PvP banned in rules?
2. If yes, what is considered open world PvP

[near raptor]

Well, there is a visual scripting system, but that can only interact with the game, not some kind of JAva mod that has full access

[latent thunder]

that would be a per server rule i think

[warm viper]

So for the server I create it shouldn't right? We basically have an overworld where there is a fort where players can claim to join the battle and winners standing claim it

[fathom sonnet]

I'll probably setup a server at some point. Probably not right off the start as there will for sure be some bugs that show up in the first week or two.

[vital fjord]

would anybody know is there gona be any premade docker image for hytale server ?

[near raptor]

There isn't one now, but I would guess that at launch many people will make one. It's really just a Java image with the Hytale jar in it

[latent thunder]

afaik there is a pterodactyl egg planned / github issue for it ( most ptero eggs have auto update )

[vital fjord]

I am askign since I probably can assume tha tserver will need to be updated every now and then right ?

so I wonder is it gona just be download new jar

[near scaffold]

algun buen samaritano que pueda comprarme el hytale ?

[west elk]

The "Mods" refers to "Java plugins" (code) and "Asset packs" (.json definitions, images, sounds, etc). ONLY Assets are downloaded to the client. There is no arbitary code execution on the client.

[latent thunder]

¿Podrías no enviarlo spam en todos los canales?

[iron tendon]

Hello!, There is some type of official documentation on how to make server plugins, that describes the API?, And does any plugin exists at the moment?

[vernal niche]

CurseForge has some documentation up already

[west elk]

Nothing official until the game comes out on Tuesday. That's also the embargo time for the early tester's to release their plugins

[pine ermine]

well, json definitions is, explicitly definitions, so it's parsed, need a schema, etc...
for example with jackson (Java), you can literally execute code using json

so, it could be a security issue

[west elk]

If you manage to find an exploit there, they'd love to hear about it https://hytale.com/security

[latent thunder]

if not idk what the stress is about almost every other modded game executes codes client side

[west elk]

It's about executing untrusted, user-creaetd code

[drifting roost]

like nearly every game with clientside mods?

[sharp sorrel]

Can’t wait to self host my server in my dedicated server, creating the first auto scale technology for hytale and something else, the first anticheat 😭🥺 can’t wait

[iron tendon]

It uses the same curseforge api of minecraft?

[pine ermine]

sure, and you download the mods before joining a server, for minecraft, garry's mod (special but yes) etc

[west elk]

That are mods users install by themselves. That's not possible in hytale. Here, everyting has to come from the server

[faint jungle]

well, not in the clients machine, the json is only used to transfer data

[vernal niche]

You'll have to check the CF docs for that or ask them. I'm not knowledgeable about their system, sorry

[latent thunder]

pretty sure you still can

well from what i've been told

there is caching of mods / data

[pine ermine]

and, i don't really understand the c# part, so you can't really mod the game with custom code ?

like, in minecraft for .jar mods, you can't do that ?

[latent thunder]

what c#?

[river spire]

client was written in c#

[pine ermine]

the client is in C# (programming language)

[latent thunder]

the mods are still java / json afaik

[west elk]

You write mods that consist of plugins for the server (in Java) and asset packs for the client (textures, models, sounds, behaviors, etc).

[pine ermine]

its the plugins who's in java (server), and the mods in c# (client) right ?

[latent thunder]

in mc terms client receives and "executes" datapacks
server runs code / mods

[latent thunder]

there are no client mods

[west elk]

no. there is no direct client modding. Nobody is writing C# code

[latent thunder]

all the client "runs / receives" is json

[pine ermine]

oh yes like datapacks, crazy

[west elk]

Only much more powerful and flexible

[faint jungle]

nope, only the server, BUT the client is built with custom code from the server in mind, so essentially any trusted code coming from the server can be executed in the game, but nothing outside of it (if there isnt a security flaw)

[sharp sorrel]

is there anything possible to do? any documentation, any java server to test?

[latent thunder]

in 3 days

[pine ermine]

so, how can you be able to create new mechanics ?

since you need to have this in the game, to use it

[west elk]

By writing event handlers and reacting to them in Java

[latent thunder]

all animations and ui can be json

[west elk]

are you talking about the videos you're seeing being shared? Or are you asking for technical info

[latent thunder]

the server sends events to client to trigger them

[pine ermine]

mmh

[west elk]

The Hytale team has invited a handful of experienced Minecraft modders to test and provide feedback the modding systems so that they can fix it up and make sure we have a smooth experience when the game comes out on Tuesday.

[pine ermine]

for example, you want to create a disco ball, you'll tell to the server, "enable the disco ball and create lights beams", and the server send the data for the beams ?

bandwidth & server load will be crazy

[west elk]

basically yeah ^^

[pine ermine]

well

[latent thunder]

server sends ball at coords X light beams enabled
client has :

• ball texture
• number of beams and where to shoot them

[pine ermine]

i guess we will need that to run a server lol

[west elk]

That isn't a crazy amount of data though

[latent thunder]

like kb at worst

if it's raw data

[faint jungle]

if you are worried about the limitations, hypixel are going to be actively adding features and enhancing the server API, so at a some point, plugin development will be somewhat equivallent to client development (but never as powerful).

[pine ermine]

i'm hyped to see that tbh

lot of possibility

but the problem is, "teleporting" the load to the server

[latent thunder]

tbh i feel like that's kindof a worst system for mod devs atleast starting ones
but eh if it works it works

[pine ermine]

even kb, bandwidth & cpu load for that would be a lot, and pricey at the end

imagine 2kb for 40 players, its kbps, sooooo at the ends its gb of bandwidth

[latent thunder]

you dont have to send the data every tick

[west elk]

For a ball and like 50 rotating light rays?

[faint jungle]

i think it will be like "create a block at this place and add this texture, create a light source from here to here in this color" and etc, and the client will get this information and blindly follow

[pine ermine]

yes, imagine you want to do something like a real disco ball, you need every 5 ticks (if 20 ticks is a seconds) send lot of rays

[latent thunder]

• if need add +y rotation of 1°/ 100ms

[west elk]

did you see the proof of concept video of the top down zombie horde mod?

[latent thunder]

just send the rotation speed to the client

no need to create new rays

[faint jungle]

we will have to wait to see how it turns out

[latent thunder]

yeah allat is speculative at best from me as i've not tested sht

[faint jungle]

it can be just once, like the client receive some data and run its normal behavior of that type of data, and only update it when the client receives a action from the server again

[latent thunder]

yep just send all init data and send other stuff when block is mooved broken or otherwise

as long as it's native simple instructions the base game has what it needs to interpret it

[minor dagger]

Any1 here who already has access to the modding api?

[faint jungle]

exactly, some code can be reused of hytale's own features, as the entity component system suggests

[pine ermine]

in minecraft, a long ago, to do a disco floor when animated blocks was not possible, you have to replace X / Z blocs
for a disco ball, tell the server to create particles from X-Z (using 3d /maths) etc

so, you tell me, all of this will be over by just say to the client "animate the floor", "run a light beam from disco ball" ?

[latent thunder]

you can change block textures at will afaik

even now with datapacks in mc

[pine ermine]

yes now you can, but in 1.4.7 or before, it wasn't possible

it was a long ago but it's just an example

they probably have a solution for this

[faint jungle]

it is not as easy, but you can do this even in minecraft with datapacks, all it takes is just some creativity and use of the tools and assets you have!

[latent thunder]

if the data looks like :

[
  "id":0001,
  "light_count":50,
  "rotation_speed":1,
  "rotation_delay":100,
  "x":152,
  "y":100,
  "z":-25,
  "block_change_range":5
  "block_change_direction":"-y"
  "block_change_filter":["white_wool","white_concrete",],
]

i'm pretty sure you can have it all be interpreted by the game and "datapacks"

and only needs to be sent once

[pine ermine]

yes so smth like that is like 200B, if you have to send it just one time, it's not really a big deal for the server then :D

[minor dagger]

Does anyone with early access to the modding api already know, if we can bring in our own map generation already?

[latent thunder]

even if you have the entire list of lasers that's like idk 1kb

[minor dagger]

even less btw if you just send raw data instead of string values (aka writing your own "Network Packets")

[latent thunder]

was just a dumb exemple

[west elk]

Everything can be swapped out. Especially since the server won't be obfuscated

[latent thunder]

but yeah dont think network bandwith will be an issue

[pine ermine]

the requirements (not optimistic at all) is like 8MB smth like that, you have 100 players, it's almost 1GB

[near raptor]

There is also a blog post on World gen v2, might be interesting to have a read through with regards to map generation

[minor dagger]

I mean, ofc you could patch the runtime jar, the question is if there already exists a hook for that in the early access API is what i am wondering

[minor dagger]

you dont have the link on hand rn i assume?

[pine ermine]

View Distance: 480 blocks
Minimum: 6 Mbit/s
Recommended: 10 Mbit/s

[near raptor]

https://hytale.com/news/2026/1/the-future-of-world-generation

[latent thunder]

if you're having issues for processing caching exists : )

[faint jungle]

i'm wondering if someone will try to mod the client anyway, even if not supported

[latent thunder]

if it's for bandwith compression exists too

[pine ermine]

yes but this need to be implemented in the server

[minor dagger]

I mean, regular servers come with at least 1GBit/s and more commonly 10GBit/s nowadays, so dont worry about that ^^

[pine ermine]

and tbh, it's not my part to do that

[latent thunder]

and it's only once and not all 100 players will be at the same place when you do stuff

[pine ermine]

1Tbps ?

[faint jungle]

or if a community will form dedicated to it

[pine ermine]

send me your provider mate lmao

[latent thunder]

of max bandwith like ovh i guess

[pine ermine]

the link of a server is generally 1gbps

yes, ovh can protect you against ddos for maybe 1tbps

[latent thunder]

nah mb it's still 1-8 gb/s there

[pine ermine]

but its not the same thing

[latent thunder]

( he edited not tbs but gbs )

[minor dagger]

sry, im dumb, obv i meant gbit/s not tbit/s for standard rate limits lmao

but usually aws ec2 instances for most of my projects or hetzner if i want to manage the hardware on my own

[pine ermine]

so if you have like, 100 players, with good computer, running 480 blocks, your bandwidth is almost saturated, if you send json data (gzip might help, but the client need to support that) would help, but even like that, it'll be a lot

[latent thunder]

you only send stuff when it gets updated

you dont send all the chunk data every tick lol

[near raptor]

Eh it won't be so bad unless you have multiple players joining every second

[minor dagger]

if u rly get to that point where u exceed ur bandwith by sending non-optimized data you clearly have enough resources and time to then work on reducing bandwidth, idk why you all make a big deal out of this

[pine ermine]

its just an example, 100 players is a lot, and not a lot too lol

but yes, i will work on that for sure

since the client can't be modded (with code I mean), optimize it will be hard i guess

and If you have a proxy, to maybe 5/6 servers, with a 1gbps link, it'll become saturated quickly

[fathom sonnet]

Some even have unlimited

[pine ermine]

unmetered*

[minor dagger]

Well, usually its then billed by usage directly

[near raptor]

At OVH you don't get billed per bandwidth usage

[minor dagger]

There is no such cloud provider that gives out heaps of ingess and egress data for free

[fathom sonnet]

Not necessarily. The one I use doesn't.

[pine ermine]

in France, network is "free" lol

[minor dagger]

you do. Its part of the regular monthly server renting fee. It even tells you on their website directly for what bandwidth you are paying

[minor dagger]

Then you clearly have not enough traffic that it even matters to them

[near raptor]

Not for their bare metal services

[pine ermine]

how do you do "player 1 want to play baseball, i send it to the baseball server" then ?

ovh can be 25gbps unmetered (1.25k€ every month)

[latent thunder]

idk if you dont go over i dont think you do

"BP publique : de 3 Gbit/s à 5 Gbit/s(1)
BP privée : de 5 Gbit/s"

[minor dagger]

If you go to the website it even tells you the bandwith your server will have. As i said. It is part of the servers general rent

[west elk]

transfer packet. it includes the address of the target server and a 4kb custom payload and makes the client disconnect from the server and establish a new connection to the mentioned server

[fathom sonnet]

Nope, I just checked with my host and he said the bandwidth is not limited and there is nothing where if I go over a certain amount I will be billed more.

[minor dagger]

Your argument is that if you are paying your monthly rent for your apartment includes water, electricity and gas usage, you dont pay for that. But obviously thats already priced in

[pine ermine]

yes, but you'll be able to do that in hytale ? :D

[near raptor]

Well sure, but if it's priced in then you don't pay per consumption

[pine ermine]

if yes, it would be crazy good :D

[west elk]

Yes, that's what Slikey said in the message I linked

[west elk]

here

[minor dagger]

Well thats why i said usually its already priced in at a pretty good rate, but that there are other providers which bill you by usage

[near raptor]

Of course they don't give you "free" bandwidth, but it doesn't matter how much bandwidth consumption there is (as long as it stays within 1 GBit)

[pine ermine]

oh, i was thinking it was for hypixel, nice :D

[west elk]

They are designing Hytale with all the pain points they learned from hypixel in mind

[worn idol]

any new plugin info been released?

[analog patrol]

Is there some sort of limit for how large the data packs and resource packs sent by the server can be?

[west elk]

there are some community-made guides on curseforge. Pretty high-level though

here

[worn idol]

thank you again

[west elk]

No info on that yet

[storm junco]

will hytale use only one thread like mc or will it use more than one?

or we dont know that perhaps?

[muted crow]

Is anything known about a system similar to BungeeCord/Velocity?

[analog patrol]

Scroll up a bit

[muted crow]

xD..

[random briar]

will the api release the 13th to make plugins or mods?

[muted crow]

That means player management is handled individually by each server; there’s no global perspective. Interesting.

[random briar]

im just excited lmao and wonder if there would be plugins folder on server

[tawdry dragon]

Seems like more of a benefit than a drawback

[analog patrol]

Plugins and mods are the same thing since everything is server side

[random briar]

can i make them using maven?

[muted crow]

I’m not so sure about that, we’ll have to see how it works in practice…

I mean, obviously you avoid the proxy layer, which is more than unnecessary, but you lose the centralization it provides.

[analog patrol]

I mean it is beneficial in the cost as you do not need separate server(s) for it

[clever plover]

Hi, is there any documentation for creating plugins?

[ancient scaffold]

I am a little confused how things like a Hub will work then, If I want a centeral lobby for players to join and then select a server to transfer to, how would that work without a bungeecord like proxy

[muted crow]

You don’t need a server for the proxy, but you do need multiple servers for your setup ->
minigames, survival, etc., right?

[hallow tulip]

You just give the hub servers ip to the user but there will not be any load balancing so...

[near raptor]

There won't be a central bottleneck like Bungee/Waterfall/Velocity, a server can send a packet to a player to make them connect to another server.

[analog patrol]

Believe so

[rose burrow]

What about the fallback in case the connection suddenly drops? If the server stops responding, the only thing that could actually trigger such an operation is the client itself by caching information from the server right when the player connects

[ancient scaffold]

I see, so they are separate servers still and you use transfer packets to send them there. How about network-wide things, such as LuckPerms or like a "global" staff chat kind of thing

[near raptor]

You'd still need some system to control players moving between servers, but the players themselves don't need to be connected to that system, only your servers need to be connected to it to move players around.

[west elk]

1. Player says they want to play minigame1
2. Server sends a transfer packet to the client which includes the following information:

• HostAddress of the minigame server
• Cryptographic signature

3. Client disconnects from the lobby
4. Client connects to the given HostAddress and hands the server the signature
5. Minigame server validates the signature and let's the player in

[muted crow]

Has anyone thought about the fact that without a proxy you’ll need to expose all the network ports? Besides, you lose the ability to do load balancing… What do you think about this?

[ancient scaffold]

I would assume you dont need to expose the other servers ports since the one hub server can make internal network connections (maybe, I could be wrong)

[near raptor]

We have discussed that in quite some length in here, yes it has some downsides to have to expose all servers

[west elk]

why is exposing the ports a problem? You can do load balancing with transfer packets

[near raptor]

The client will establish a connect to the other server, so it needs to be publicly accessible

[ancient scaffold]

Got it

I mean, you could still probably route connections through a proxy (Traefik or nginx) and have 1 entry point

[west elk]

also, Hytale supports ipv6

[near raptor]

This is different from e.g. Minecraft/Velocity, where you are connected to a proxy (a "fake" Minecraft server), and that proxies you to an actual Minecraft server.

[muted crow]

I’m new here and I come from a Minecraft perspective, so I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around this… sorry if this is redundant.

[ancient scaffold]

haha me as well

[sharp lake]

Yes, but that's still substantially different from a proxy like Bungeecord which has to stick to Minecraft's spec and do lots of hacks to pull off its features

[near raptor]

In Minecraft:

• The proxy (Velocity) is exposed, players connect to the proxy. It is a layer between the client and your Minecraft server
• The proxy moves the player around by connecting them to a different server
• Optionally you have a load balancer to connect the player to one out of several proxy (Velocity) instances

In Hytale:

• There is no governing proxy, you just connect to a Hytale server directly
• When the player needs to move to another server, the Hytale server can send a "transfer packet" that tells the client to establish a connection to a different IP/port (a different Hytale server).
• It might still be possible to have a load balancer to ensure not everyone connects to one Hytale server as hub.

Hytale's system is much less centralized, less of a single point of failure. But to set up a network is quite different. I would guess we will see some kind of multi-server management system be created by the community (some API that can talk to servers via plugins) to move players around. Servers would register themselves in this central API such that it knows what servers are available.

[muted crow]

Thanks a lot! @near raptor ❤️

[sharp lake]

The most important part about the transfer packet support is the fact that we don't need an intensive and specialized proxy to manage the players
They're just standard proxies for packet routing, ideally with support for QUIC headers

[hallow tulip]

So, we can setup a haproxy tcp load balancing all hubs for example and then after this you can use transfer packets right?

[muted crow]

The tradeoff is that all your servers end up being exposed to the internet

[near raptor]

Nope, Hytale is QUIC/UDP

[sharp lake]

Yes, but it's not TCP, so it'll have to be something else

[hallow tulip]

Understood 🫡

[sharp lake]

No, that's not the trade-off at play here lol
You can still use a reverse proxy and hide your servers behind them

[ancient scaffold]

I also heard something about servers being multi threaded, is that the case? what type of services will be on seperate threads

[near raptor]

The only thing is that we haven't found a suitable reverse proxy yet

[hallow tulip]

Yes udp reverse proxy is more of a hassle

[sharp lake]

I thought we found junkurihara/rust-rpxy-l4 already?

[ancient scaffold]

What about something like TCPShield

[near raptor]

Maybe, but looking at the repo it states it's more of a PoC, not really production ready

[sharp lake]

And there's the nginx commit with QUIC stream support

[west elk]

Quic is UDP

[ancient scaffold]

I see

[near raptor]

I'm guessing once Hytale releases the community will cook up something to add support to some existing proxy software or build something new

[sharp lake]

TLS/QUIC forwarder: rpxy-l4 can forward TLS/IETF QUIC streams to appropriate backend servers based on the ServerName Indication (SNI) and Application Layer Protocol Negotiation (ALPN) values.

I'm pretty sure this is the important part, so I don't see why it wouldn't work

[ancient scaffold]

I wonder how many of the big minecraft plugins will be ported over to hytale

[latent thunder]

how many will be native or have native alternative

[sharp lake]

What do you mean native

[near raptor]

Some plugins might be obsolete due to their features existing natively in Hytale

[latent thunder]

like for exemple ah plugins maybe Hytale will have a town where you can put stuff up to trade

[fleet isle]

Wait, what was it that Hytale currently doesn't support? Wasn't it SNI? There was something they don't support now when it comes to establishing a connection

[sharp lake]

People have been asking about SRV records

[ancient scaffold]

Like will we see bukkit making a wrapper for the hytale server code that creates a similar development experience as mc

[latent thunder]

or idk worldedit is a "plugin" but is useless in hytale

[west elk]

SRV records

[latent thunder]

hytale does that themself but other might make wrappers anyway

[sharp lake]

SRV is a gimmick that allows the game to check which port your server actually lives on, and connect to that instead of 5520, to oversimplify things

[ancient scaffold]

I assume we wont get any docs or code until release day for that

[latent thunder]

yea well it's in 3 days

[analog patrol]

Yeah that seems like the best example of obsolete, even if the creative mode had half of what it has now it would still top it

[ancient scaffold]

tryin to get a server out day one lol

[sharp lake]

I think people usually use the word "built-in" for this

[latent thunder]

me2 but it will be nilla lol

[ancient scaffold]

nah, I think I can remake the entirety of essentials in 1 afternoon 🙂 jk

[vernal niche]

SNI is server name indication. If you connect via domain instead of an IP, e.g. myhytaleserver*.example.*org, that is included in the SNI field, and a reverse proxy can take that to determine what to route to

[pine ermine]

so a proxy is needed, it's not bungeecord or velocity, but nginx or any alternatives, interesting

[sharp lake]

Not needed, but may be wanted

[near raptor]

Did Nitrado have to do anything special to get network infrastructure working for Hytale? Or is it just giving out IPs + ports that you cannot change?

[pine ermine]

well, if you don't want to expose all of your infra.. you need it yes

[latent thunder]

if they use a container alternative you can make ports whatever the f you wants

[sharp lake]

If you don't want to expose game servers, then yes lol
But you're going to be exposing a game server anyway

[ancient scaffold]

I assume Pterodactyl / Wings will work for hytale natively

[near raptor]

I'd prefer to not expose internal IPs, can be a target for DDoS attacks or other unwanted poking around

[pine ermine]

if I have 2500 servers, I don't want to expose all of them

[vernal niche]

Just IPs and ports for launch, maybe cooler things after that.

Any smart solutions have an inherent complexity and complex things break when done too quickly

[fleet isle]

I still feel like I'm not fully understanding the concept of transfer packets when it seems like proxies will be wanted anyway.

[latent thunder]

there is a issue for the egg created by Danny6167 ( maintainer atleast afaik of ptero he helped me like 4 times at that point ) issues/340

[sharp lake]

Transfer packets are a way to tell the game that they're moving
In games without them, you have to do lots of hacks in order to achieve smooth transitions between servers

Look at the source code of PaperMC/Velocity and compare it to normal proxies

[near raptor]

We take Velocity for granted, but it is quite a complicated system to get working properly in Minecraft

[latent thunder]

isnt that what mc has added like 1 year ago that is still sht ?

[sharp lake]

Yes, literally 14 years too late and without custom payloads lol

[pine ermine]

play.john.doe -> proxy (1.1.1.1) -> loadbalancer between hubs
hub02.srv.john.doe -> proxy -> hub02 (1.1.1.3)
gase25.srv.john.doe -> proxy -> gase25 (1.1.1.4)

[muted crow]

Think of it as a message sent from the server the player is currently connected to, telling them which other server to connect to.

[west elk]

yes. And Hypixel has been asking for them for years ^^

[vernal niche]

Most people constantly talking about proxies just try to translate a known solution from Minecraft to Hytale.

Basically no other game does proxies. They all rely on public IPs.

[pine ermine]

so you mean, this won't be a good idea ?

[fleet isle]

But with a proxy, I won't be telling the client that they're moving, I will be telling that to the proxy.

[sharp lake]

They're all public game servers, you don't need to hide them entirely behind a reverse proxy
You just disallow connections that don't have the required payload

[fleet isle]

I feel like public IPs are a bad idea. I can't explain why, I just have this feeling...

[pine ermine]

so I expose all of my IP addresses

[latent thunder]

also question unrelated will there be a point where we can post links here like github or imgur or others as that's not against the rules but still blocked ?

[near raptor]

Yeah maybe I am looking at it too much with Minecraft-colored glasses. I was kind of hoping to put Hytale servers on the same nodes as the Minecraft servers / other infrastructure, but if Hytale requires exposed IPs that is a problem. But I guess dedicated nodes for Hytale workloads that are publically exposed might also solve the issue.

[latent thunder]

just the needed ports

[ancient scaffold]

Im glad to see someone else thinking about how to make factions in hytale too 🙂

[pine ermine]

if I have 25 hosts, and 25 IPs

[west elk]

25 IP+Port pairs

[sharp lake]

All these hypotheticals, do you actually have 25 hosts on completely different networks?

[latent thunder]

i'm assuming like a tunnel ( exemple 25 proxmox vms with each their own tunnel )

[near raptor]

I mean, do you really need 25 hosts, or could you have a few (powerful) boxes running multiple Hytale servers on different ports?

[pine ermine]

it's just an example

[sharp lake]

Try to keep it realistic lol

[latent thunder]

i dont think you need an ip for each afaik
i hope not would be hell

[pine ermine]

its kinda realistic, lot of mc server does that (having lot of servers)

[latent thunder]

why ?

[sharp lake]

They do that for performance reasons, Minecraft cannot handle players

[ancient scaffold]

When I used to run a minecraft network we would have 15+ servers running on the same box and we were fine with just 1 public IP and just using ports

[near raptor]

Eh, we have no reason to believe that Hytale servers can hold that many more players than Paper servers atm

[latent thunder]

i am :[{

[pine ermine]

15+ servers on the same box ? minigames ?

[near raptor]

And with minigames, having multiple servers is a requirement, server count is no longer really relevant

[sharp lake]

Why are you comparing base game to a slimmed-down community-made performance mod 🙈

[near raptor]

Cuz the majority of the Minecraft community runs Paper servers

[latent thunder]

not necessarly

i have 30+ servers on one machine with my 1 ip

[pine ermine]

oh and btw, imagine hosting hytale on kubernetes, what a pain to do it without any proxies

[vernal niche]

Agones

[pine ermine]

yes, it works great

[ancient scaffold]

Nah like, a lobby, factions, factions 2, skyblock, cannon realm, survival, pvp, and a few other small ones, Oh we ran a discord bot too on the same box, same with a Litebans website, and our fourms.

We used a pretty powerful OVH box and it was fine

[fleet isle]

I don't know where Hytale's limits are when it comes making everything on just a handful of instances... after all a single point of failure is a problem. If your whole network is made up of just like 5 servers, if one goes down, that could be really major.

[muted crow]

Does anyone think it’s realistic to have 3 dedicated servers and have all three networks exposed? Coming from Minecraft, DDoS attacks are a daily occurrence…

[sharp lake]

You asked whether a proxy was needed, it's not
That's a benefit
It's not preventing you from using one, it's just helping you avoid all the cons of using one

[dawn scaffold]

yes, we do it xd

[near raptor]

Cries in custom Kubernetes setup for our Minecraft network that is a pain to maintain

[sharp lake]

Like 0.1% of servers are the targets of 99.9% of DDoS attacks

[pine ermine]

Hytale ???

[dawn scaffold]

yes

[pine ermine]

you mean minecraft no ?? it works really great on k8s yes

[neon cove]

Is anyone thinking of opening a Hytale server in Turkey?

[muted crow]

In the Spanish-speaking community, it’s more common than 0.01%

[ancient scaffold]

I was also hoping that this could be possible... but I dont think its modular enough, same kind of reason its not very beneficial to run a minecraft server on k8s, we experiemented with it and didnt work very well

[near raptor]

Minecraft works great on Kubernetes, but we did have to make our own controllers because Kubernetes has the tendency to just kill workloads and move them to other nodes

[pine ermine]

tbh, i do minecraft on k8s, with my own thing, and with shulker, and it works absolutely fantastic

[vernal niche]

I should make a plugin to run Hytale on Agones

[ancient scaffold]

hm, maybe things have changed, it has been a few years since Ive been in the mc server game

[pine ermine]

just no spot instance (on aws) because it's trash af XD

[ancient scaffold]

how cost effective is running a server on aws, I feel like the monthly payment would be way more than just a dedicated box on a hosting site

[pine ermine]

but very overkill ngl, kubernetes is crazy complicated and lot of maintenance & costs for "nothing"

[near raptor]

Ehhh is it though?

[pine ermine]

70$ for the cp only, its crazy

[near raptor]

Just run your own cluster :p

[pine ermine]

then you need to administrate it, and glhf

[ancient scaffold]

ah yes, the classic raspberry pi super cluster running k8s for a mc server

[near raptor]

Meh, some Kubernetes distros are very easy to manage

[pine ermine]

even with rancher, or talos, okay its fun but for production, it's a lot of works ?

[ancient scaffold]

I like k3s with Rancher

[near raptor]

K3S for example is just one command to set up

And K3S is also HA with multiple masters

[ancient scaffold]

or just use EKS and screw it

[pine ermine]

I prefer to use something like scaleway or ovh, aws is so expensive

[near raptor]

The benefit of Kubernetes is that you can also dump all your other infrastructure on it

[pine ermine]

but that's the way to go for kubernetes :D

[ancient scaffold]

But you could also do the same thing with docker

[pine ermine]

but again, who need that ? even big company doesn't use it for the good reason

[near raptor]

Sure, but Kubernetes has some nicer systems to keep things managable through Services, Ingresses, ConfigMaps, Secrets, etc.

[pine ermine]

sure, external secrets are crazy good, ingresses are probably the perfect thing no one can imagine

[near raptor]

And I love my GitOps in Kubernetes

[pine ermine]

but look at the cost, you need to works a lot on kubernetes to just use it properly

[ancient scaffold]

I love when people run mc servers like a corperate fortune 500 company

[cosmic pond]

I am developing an IntelliJ IDEA plugin called Hytale DevKit.
The plugin provides a set of tools designed to simplify the creation of Hytale server plugins, along with other useful features for developers.

More information and updates about the project will be shared soon. Unfortunately, I am currently unable to share media in this channel to showcase the plugin’s progress, which could be helpful for gathering feedback and supporting plugin development. I hope a dedicated channel will be available in the future so I can share progress updates and previews with you.

[dawn scaffold]

thats the fun behind it. We started a project just to have fun, learn and do cool things

[near raptor]

I mean, at some point in time we had 10k+ consecutive players. But those days are long gone and now we are stuck with a corporate fortune 500 setup for like 100 players haha

[pine ermine]

and you loose smth like 15/20% of compute on a standard host just for the kubernetes part

[near raptor]

But when we did have a lot of players, Kubernetes was great

[pine ermine]

omg you're one of the developers of shotbow ? it was a nice server :D

[ancient scaffold]

I mean yeah I mocked an entire k8s environment on my homelab with full secret managmenet with Hashicorp Vault, none of it is necissary but its fun

[dawn scaffold]

nice

[near raptor]

My Raspberry Pi cluster runs like a corporate enterprise cluster as you do with home servers hah

90% of my raspberry pi cluster is infrastructure, 10% is actually useful apps

[pine ermine]

at least you don't have racks servers lmao

[near raptor]

No, I just have 4 pis in a single 1U unit lol

[pine ermine]

power efficient, and enough compute for lot of workloads :D

[stray pasture]

Got those, loud..

[sharp lake]

loud is right 😭

[pine ermine]

loud and the electricity bill maaaaan

[near raptor]

One can dream

[ancient scaffold]

thats what a networking closet is for

[pine ermine]

i've r630 max & r820 max, +100€ every months

[stray pasture]

We're else will i put my money i dint spend on daily coffee

[pine ermine]

i'm rich in ram i guess now lol

[near raptor]

A server rack with rackmount servers in a small apartment is not very ideal

[latent thunder]

my favorite reddit thread since : "Silence of the fans part 2" had one for a year and a half

[pine ermine]

your neighbours will love you when the servers reboot.

[ashen jewel]

anyone else having issues purchasing hytale? I am trying to buy it but it keeps getting declined. However I can buy any other stuff except hytale

[latent thunder]

i have 3 grand of ram in a server that cost me 1700

[stray pasture]

R750, my 512 gigs can sell fir the entire homelab setup

[ashen jewel]

[pine ermine]

i buy the r630 2 years ago, full 32gb of ram, smth like 500€

[near raptor]

I wanted to buy a somewhat more powerful server but never ended up doing so. And now I regret not doing it

[stray pasture]

Hey, ya know I just learned server monkey co-locates. Not something I remember them doing

[pine ermine]

now i can sell it for 1500/2000

[pine ermine]

that's a crazy server you have, r750 is with the 40c xeon right ?

[latent thunder]

sold mine with ( yeah odd sticks i now ) 320g of ddr4 for 50 € to a local charity 2 years ago

[near raptor]

More like I myself need to co-locate to another place if I had rackmount servers whizzing in my bedroom

[stray pasture]

My one server has enough ram for $15,000 if I sold it.

[sharp lake]

Assuming you want a reverse proxy at all:
The idea with is that you can route people according to the 4kb payload via your reverse proxy
You route people without payloads to the hub
You can send a transfer packet to a user which just transfers them to the same IP they're connected to, aka the proxy, but with a distinct payload that is used for routing
If you're worried about people spoofing the payloads and joining without authorization, you simply need to sign or encrypt your payload
Now you're avoiding all the problems Bungeecord has, and just dealing with standard network routing and tunneling, which is a lightweight task that even a Pi can accomplish

[stray pasture]

Its got a total of 80c

[near raptor]

Geez

I wouldn't know what to do with so much compute power

[pine ermine]

its so fun the small dell servers, i love it

[pine ermine]

with high clock speed, 3.7ghz boost iirc ?

for the best 3rd gen xeon

[stray pasture]

Game servers I said. But nah. Just has my infra, git, and pomodoro timer I made. Its slowly getting there

[latent thunder]

my 4x v3's had 3.4 iirc 8 cores 8 threads tho i had 8 core 16 threads at 2.3 before

[pine ermine]

with the epyc cpu, you can now have 64 cores at 5 GHz

its crazy, and even 192 cores at 3.7 GHz

(the cpu cost smth like 25k$)

[stray pasture]

I had to trade between cores and performance. I did cores because Minecraft is the only game that needs high clock. Otherwise I can run many ark clusters just fine. 😄

[formal burrow]

man i miss those days

[latent thunder]

same

[fleet isle]

Sending a transfer packet that just says to connect to the same proxy they just were in sounds like a problem waiting to happen. I guess I kinda get why it's better to avoid proxies in game servers but at the same I then feel like you would need to have control over the client where it can actually connect which in Hytale you don't get. It feels to me like a lose-lose situation. Go with a proxy and have all sorts of issues or don't and still have some issues.

[stray pasture]

Plus I work with games loke multiplayer and backend services so server exists for that, big thing for that is i dont have to worry about cloud for my lifetime not for my fun stuff

[near raptor]

Steering clear from Cloud as much as possible is always nice. I would only really consider stuff like S3 to dump local files to, because even local backups won't save you from a fire

[stray pasture]

Hey another fun fact, web technologies for games is wild now!!! - full fledged 3D games via browser is facinating.

^personal hobby time has been dumped here

[candid orbit]

wow

[near raptor]

I was alwasy kind of surprised by things like Figma running so well. Figma runs on WASM under the hood if I am not mistaken.

[stray pasture]

Eve Online could be a full browser game, graphics and all

[stray pasture]

Best invention ever

[pine ermine]

WASM with WebGL

[pine ermine]

and the worst invention is.... (electron) ?

[ashen jewel]

?

[near raptor]

Oof

Isn't Discord still Electron?

[pine ermine]

exactly

[queen burrow]

Maybe if you were running the game through a cloud-streaming service imo lmao

[pine ermine]

contact the support mate, it's not the good place to ask here :c

[ashen jewel]

i am asking if anyone purchased and got a issue or not

if you guys are not getting issue it's probably time to contact support else ima wait

[near raptor]

Not sure, I bought the game a while ago

[ashen jewel]

oh thx

[restive heart]

😭

[coarse frost]

wait theres one server per ip??

[pine ermine]

per port

[west elk]

Per IP+Port tuple

[coarse frost]

oh thank god

[west elk]

also hytale supports ipv6

[pine ermine]

but, imagine you have a F5, you won't be able to do it properly without doing "bad" mmh

[coarse frost]

wait so uh if i make a lobby and the main server how to move from lobby to main

[pine ermine]

this

[coarse frost]

and the address being ipv4 + port?

[pine ermine]

or ipv6

[coarse frost]

right

big question!!

[vernal niche]

Apex Hosting will publish the Prometheus Exporter Plugin that we are currently using for playtests. You can use that directly or as a copy/paste template

[coarse frost]

Presumably there is some event for when a player joins and leaves a server — in which order?

@vernal niche might know that

[near raptor]

That's pretty awesome

[wheat vale]

now i do like that

[vernal niche]

Yes, event on player join, have successfully used today to redirect a player to a different server on join

[coarse frost]

which event is fired first though

[warm mantle]

is it possible to develop mods/plugins for hytale already?

[stray pasture]

Eve isnt heavy or complex. Its 20 years old. Its 90% just lighting and basically very few objects due to its size.

[coarse frost]

Player join on the new server, or player quit on the old server? guessing quit :/

[vernal niche]

I don't understand the question. A player generally joins before they leave

[tacit copper]

technically both happen simaltainously

[pine ermine]

maybe you have prelogin or thing like that, but the transactional part will be interesting

[coarse frost]

That was a problem in some scenarios for me in Minecraft where I’d update someone’s data on quit and if they transferred, the join event fetching the data would call before the old data has finished saving @vernal niche

[fathom pelican]

mm, im very pleased with the way Hytale has been managed since the re aquisition. feels like actual humans are working on it. first time i see a "copy to clipboard" button underneath the terms and conditions to give people an easy way to copy paste into their preffered AI for a quick summary or QnA on terms

[near raptor]

Hm with such a plugin, I guess you don't even need a load balancer. You could in theory just host a Hytale server with almost all functions disabled and all it does is connect you to another server that is capable of handling you

[wheat vale]

i think this can be answere in mutliple ways
one would be the one that fires first, fires first
the other is like @vernal niche already said a player has join so he can leave

but i am as well not sure if i understand the question correctly

[coarse frost]

^^

[west elk]

I believe they're asking about the transfer packet. Do they join the new server before leaving the old server

[wheat vale]

thats a weird case to be in in the first place

[vernal niche]

You cannot rely on an order. Even if you typically see the same order every time, the garbage collector in one of the servers could have a field day, changing the order.

You need proper locking of the shared state for this and explicitly synchronize.

[steady wolf]

I'm looking forward to see the performace of the servers, minecraft had many issues with multithreading, considering the devs come from there I guess they made multithreading top tier for hytale to avoid similar issues

[coarse frost]

They’re separated instances both connected to the same database

[pine ermine]

its why bungeecord exists lol, it simplify all of this

[wheat vale]

exactly you should ALLWAYS ensure a users data is locked when you do something with it
if you dont do that it would pretty much set you up for corruption to happen at somepoint

[west elk]

It shifts complexity

[pine ermine]

ofc, more complexity etc

[coarse frost]

How would one lock data in eh like a mongo or sql database

[wheat vale]

sql easy transactions

[coarse frost]

we’re talking adding like a boolean field for whether the user data is loaded on another instance

[near raptor]

Could use something like Redis with ShedLock

[wheat vale]

i mean in the end its still up to you to ensure data integrity is beeing kept healthy at any cost how you do it basicly is you thing way to do that are pretty much infinite

[wheat vale]

uh the fancy way i like that

[west elk]

send a message to the old server to force it to release the resoucres on the player?

[wheat vale]

or you just move it out to your proxy
like i said you got infinite ways to ensure data integrity but you need to ensure it with something more safe then the order events seem to fire in
i needed to learn that the hard way myself not minecraft related though

[near raptor]

Or dont use any locking mechanism and just yolo it. Players will have a 1% chance of data corruption to keep things exciting

[coarse frost]

Player leaves Server A for Server B -> data is called to save

Player joins Server B -> data is fetched

If B event is fired before A, old data is fetched ≠ data integrity

That’s basically my question dumbed down. Of course I’d need other alternatives for integrity which I do for minecraft (i simply don’t save on quit)

[wheat vale]

nice xD

[stray pasture]

This usually goes well at the end of thr day.

[wheat vale]

you got to keep it exciting some way arround here

[near raptor]

That's why we got backups!

[tacit copper]

yolo'ing best way to go fr fr

[wheat vale]

ew.. he does it the proper way

[wheat vale]

just let the db figure it out you will (probably) be fine c:

[tacit copper]

fr fr

[high flicker]

If you are doing anything without backups it’s idiotic…. The pure definition of “she’ll be right”

[ashen jewel]

what do you guys think we have to do to port plugins, no docs are released yet?

[wheat vale]

if you did do the fancy way with sql you did use transactions and let the code check "yo transaction did you do the thing?" if yes commit it if not role it back and try again there you integritry is safed

[coarse frost]

problem is with minecraft is that they aren’t simultaneous, db doesn’t recognize them as collisions or anything

[high flicker]

They are releasing the official GitBook I believe on release explaining everything and providing API etc.

[near raptor]

We relied on a RAID 1 setup once and had a failed disk. We thought "ah well, get the disk replaced and rebuild the RAID array". During the RAID array rebuild the second (healthy) disk failed. Lessons learned: local backups are not enough.

[wheat vale]

another good case for transactions and error handling
nothing ever can replace good error handling

[ashen jewel]

sounds cool I hope we could make cross platform compatible plugins

[high flicker]

I try to have 3 forms of backups. Local, cloud and separate drive.

[coarse frost]

how would transactions help here? just ensures it’s successfully handled

[vernal niche]

While the player is connected to server X and their data is not persisted, server X should have a lock on the data.

When the player disconnects (no matter of normal disconnect or transfer) you flush the data and when you're done you release the lock.

If a user connects to a server that does not have the lock, the user is kept in queue/limbo until the lock can be acquired.

[coarse frost]

Yeah so i’d need it stored in redis or similar whether its locked or not

[wheat vale]

they gives you the choice to ask if the things you wanted to do have been done or if it failed
based on that you commit the transaction which would be writing it from ram to storage or you role it back which effectively just wipes it from ram

[coarse frost]

since we’re talking about two independent instances

[vernal niche]

Database works just as well, redis may be over engineered if you don't need it for anything else

[coarse frost]

yeah just a field in the db if its locked

i generally prefer mongo for these kind of uh, projects?

[west elk]

I feel like it's like the meme with the complexity curve

Don't need                 Don't need
  proxy        ....           proxy
            ..      ..
         .    locks,   .
      .   data sharing,  .
    .    load balancing    .
...                         ......

[coarse frost]

sql doesn’t rly fit minecraft / hytale imo

[near raptor]

Time to spin up a Cassandra cluster for my 5 players

[wheat vale]

i and most of the plugin developer community dissagree with that one

[near raptor]

I mean PostgreSQL has JSON support

[wheat vale]

YES THERE

[near raptor]

I have personal beef with MongoDB

[wheat vale]

why would i give up relations i can query for something that never was meant to be used that way

[coarse frost]

or you just use a nosql json-based database directly

[near raptor]

But mah relations

[wheat vale]

you literally just make it 5 times harder for your self

[coarse frost]

Nahhh mongo’s easy to work with

[wheat vale]

now i see how you get that trouble with writing data and some other event messing with it
you are one of those mongo for everything people

[tacit copper]

I'm working on one with Minecraft and Hytale, when I can get CPW working, then CPT will be syncing between servers and a web dash (hopefully)

[near raptor]

Mongo is fine for basic stuff, but the moment you got relations between objects it becomes a nightmare to work with. You have to craft the weirdest queries to get or write data consistently

[coarse frost]

nah i’ve just finished a massive database course in university and came to the conclusion that mongo best fits my needs

i like the flexibility of not having fixed schemas

[near raptor]

Also depending on where you work, Mongo is super aggressive in their (corporate) marketing

[coarse frost]

don’t get me wrong, sql is >>>> just not for most minecraft projects ive done

[near raptor]

My experience is the other way, noSQL is just not how I would have needed to store my data for Minecraft projects