server-plugins-read-only

[daring lodge]

idk if servers are actually lightweight yet

[west elk]

Yes, it will be possible to run your own Hytale server on your own computer, either by inviting friends directly into your single player game or by running a dedicated server using Java (like Minecraft). The server .jar will be available when the game releases on the 13th.

[fringe ore]

I cried myself to sleep (jk) doing most of this process.

I was making a realm 2 realm thing that I ended up scrapping

[candid spire]

Oh okey, thanks

[stray pasture]

Ya know, I never questioned it. 😄 - Is singleplayer running via the Jar or built into the client? 😂

[west elk]

that is my understanding based on Zero saying they "ship with" Temurin

[stray pasture]

Ah I see, I saw ship with and didn't think anything about like how they would package just that they are expecting the use of Temurin.

So one executable tied to C# executable and Java Server? - Oh wait they have a launcher. 😂 Never mind. 😛

[west elk]

yeah I'd just make the client run the server as a subprocess

[sacred tulip]

What was their motivation for trying to rewrite the server in c++? Wouldn't this have made cross compatibility for plugins harder anyways

[stray pasture]

Not harder. But it was a Riot choice and a "real game devs do this" type thing. As Riot operates in C++ and their infrastructure supports their workflow

I assume at least

[placid narwhal]

Wait, so all this porting Ive been doing for my existing mods was now for nothing? They are using java gain now?

[stray pasture]

Yes. Since the aqusition

[stray pasture]

Sorry to ping ya again but to add onto this, C++ is used for most cross platform a relevant example was when Mojang paid 4J Studios to port their PC Java variant to Consoles they used C++ | Console editions were actually build from the Pocket Edition which came first which was developed by Mojang.

On top of this Pocket Edition is actually the core of current day bedrock. - Then you have Skybox Labs who helped port to PS 4 and Nintendo Switch

While not necessarily easier to develop in has much more resources for cross platform - This is impart due to strict console restrictions that everyone must abide by. (So performance critical usually applies)

[stray pasture]

I mean, you could keep porting and just have interop. 😂 (Don't follow my advise) 😛

[sacred tulip]

I can't even feel bad for you because you started before the game was even released

[placid narwhal]

Yeah, i'm not complaining iw was entirely my fault

[sharp lake]

You're the same person who said "can you explain this in non-coder terms plz" like 5 times in a row 😭
are you actually trying to claim you ported plugins to C++ while hytale was in development hell

Your message history in this server is ridiculous 💀

[fringe ore]

[summer loom]

Also the plugin would not have been written in C++, it would have been Luau lmao

[sharp lake]

That person was getting banned from other communities, so I'm guessing they're just a troll lol

[stray pasture]

I read this "lumau" 😂

[fathom pelican]

I’d almost believe this was a satirical joke.. but then I realize it’s totally like Microsoft to needlessly make you look at things and jump through hoops across their ecosystem as everything to them is an ad. The more brands you see the better as they say

Vs just…. Doing it like everyone else for the sake of simplicity and usability

[stray pasture]

That is exactly Microsoft and their docs... - Never look through those docs.

[pallid ridge]

hey is there a way to report something on hytale. i wanna report something that is important

[tame quarry]

[west elk]

</report:1438213843997163680> or hytale com/security

[scarlet spoke]

ngl, that's probably the smartest way rn.
If you have a gameserver, you simply add a custom command with same logic, but without kickin' the player

[tidal mauve]

just transfer them back and forth

[stone cedar]

why would you transfer them if youre already running a full gameserver anyway

[tired falcon]

The Microsoft OpenJDK builds are great in my experience.

[rustic pollen]

Hello, i want to run a Hytale Server on start on my own deticated machine.
How to find any information about server software download?

[vernal niche]

There's no info published just yet.

[lost shadow]

Since Hytale doesn’t use proxies and relies on transfer packets, what’s the intended way to handle multiple lobbies while only exposing a single ip?

[silver cloak]

A hytale server can be made as a proxy. If you want multiple lobbies, just have a list of available IPs and transfer them to the desired lobby when they click a button (player.transfer(IP))

You can also setup rotating ip addresses ( alias -> ip1, ip2, ip3)

There's an upcoming blog that shows how to make a hytale server a proxy + server setup + other things

[exotic girder]

I dreamt about the .jar.... I could even check the code......... pls give it to me

[lost shadow]

Oh, that’s interesting. I thought they said there wouldn’t be any proxies, just transfer packets.

[silver cloak]

Proxies are proxies, you probably misheard something about bungeecord because they don't use "transfer packets"

[stone cedar]

@vernal niche sorry to ask in here (as its not hytale related) but why do you guys at nitrado not offer vintage story?
(just curious if its a technical challenge or just not popular enough)

[vernal niche]

I believe it was a combination of both. AFAIK there were some significant changes to the server software which would have required some non-trivial efforts on our end, and combined with the low server count we had, we decided to stop support for the game.

We would love to offer all games indefinitely but sometimes low server/customer just doesn't justify all efforts anymore.

[stone cedar]

ye thats smth you gave insight to last time already with some older games not being offered like cod1/2

[novel tundra]

will there be minecraft factions?

Perfect.

hi JMD!!!

how many chunks does an alt load in this game

[daring lodge]

hello brother fellow gum chewer

[novel tundra]

will there be cannons in this game?

[daring lodge]

no tnt yet in the game i think

[novel tundra]

we need to develop a JAR

@daring lodge is Mint Client branching to hytale?

[daring lodge]

too much effort

[novel tundra]

ah man, i need some cheats fr tho

need to one up my enemies

[sacred tulip]

Why the need to cheat on a block game

Ill be laughing when you get banned on day one

[novel tundra]

you won’t be laughing when i have all your loot buddy

[stray pasture]

Everyone talking about cheats being bad on a modding first game... Technically everything is a cheat. We just gave nuance.

[dusky plume]

I hope cheat users get ip ban, mac ban and Up his ass ban

[sterile venture]

Hopefully not IP ban 🤣🤣 that’s a terrible way to handle it haha

[near raptor]

IP ban is boring, let's just ban whatever matches the subnet 255.255.255.0 for the IP just for fun

[fiery vine]

wow exactly five times. I was asleep, and when I saw the chat the next day, I wasnt sure whether to reply or not

[summer loom]

when one guy at your 50,000 student university gets you ip banned

[sterile venture]

Exactly 🤣

[sharp lake]

You can get away without proxies due to the transfer packet
But depending on what you want to do, you'll still want a proxy
The main difference between a proxy for Hytale and Minecraft is that we have to do a ton of hacky things in Minecraft to make it work
We're injecting packets and imitating the game, and it's very intensive work compared to an off-the-shelf QUIC proxy

[humble ibex]

Will I be able to host my own server directly on 13th?
Couldnt find any info on that.

Does anyone know?

[stray pasture]

I'm pretty sure they did this route because they stated they pay to much for 50 proxies on their MC network.

[stray pasture]

As far as we are aware, day one release will have server hostability

[humble ibex]

Thank you!

[sharp lake]

it's also just a complete pain in the ass to maintain a proxy like that, in every way
codebase, hosting costs, etc

i haven't even bothered with my infrastructure in the last 4 years 💀
because mojang pushes breaking changes literally 24/7 and maintaining compatibility is just unfeasible

[boreal radish]

REAL
they change things and dont tell anyone and then it breaks stuff

[silver cloak]

WOW

[stray pasture]

Yeah, they never really built it with modding in mind. 😂

[sharp lake]

They have been actively hostile to the modding community since ever. They sniped community talent over and over again and stalled for time, never implementing anything the talent was already trying to put together for the community

[rose atlas]

that mod in #showcase is insane

[boreal radish]

fr it looks fun

[supple ridge]

For real, now that I saw that, I want to do that for real

[mortal latch]

Can we ask them to open source the code please? That would be insanely helpful.

[scarlet spoke]

Server code with be published asap after launch

[sharp lake]

The following video showcases a server-side Hytale mod created by a Hytale team member in their spare time. It’s intended purely as inspiration for how different genres could be realized within Hytale!

The gameplay shown represents only a small subset of our modding capabilities and was used to build a simple, survivor-like experience.
This mod is not planned for release as part of the game.

[mortal latch]

You ever tried to develop a Minecraft plugin without documentation and only the server source code? We need examples to learn off

[mortal latch]

Nowhere in this it says that the code won’t be published

[sharp lake]

Nowhere in that does it say it will be lol
In fact, it explicitly says it's not planned for release as part of the game

They're more than likely unopposed to the release of the mod, but it wasn't promised

[scarlet spoke]

Docs will be published asap after launch.
What's the issue to wait some days? Bruh 😄

[sharp lake]

Yes, and it was fine. 💀 And there are already examples confirmed anyway

[mortal latch]

Yes and hell I don’t want it to be released as part of the game. And I saw that they don’t write explicit that they’ll publish it, that’s what I’m saying, let’s ask them 😭

[stray pasture]

Well, to be fair. Looks like it will be simple enough with a understandable and logical API, I am sure it won't be nessasary to see reference mods.

[mortal latch]

I thought it will be launched without

[sharp lake]

"asap after" does indeed mean they're be missing at launch

[scarlet spoke]

Just be patient. There is no race to lose

[mortal latch]

That would be really great. Still it looks like there is complex stuff to do in this game/API and any help would be great, with and without docs btw..

[mortal latch]

Sure

[mortal latch]

Any code examples?

[sharp lake]

It's early access, do you really want incomplete docs that could potentially be out of date on the daily
They're dog-fooding, we'll have reference implementations

[stray pasture]

Well, I would hope we get some solid interfaces, and logically methods. If that is the case the it is just your logic that is the real hard part, they just give you the blueprint.

[stray pasture]

Actually yeah, I would rather that.

Its iterative, starting early is important

[mortal latch]

Yeah best case scenario. And given they developed this with modding in mind it could be very much better than Minecraft modding.

[sharp lake]

Minecraft has been literally hostile towards modding up until recently, and their first party means of user-generated content are a joke

[mortal latch]

That’s not what I’m asking btw, if they don’t want to release unfinished docs ok, their thing, but any reference plugin would do the job too

[sharp lake]

They are dog-fooding, they use their own publicly available tools to develop the game
Lots of features in the base game are just bundled plugins

[scarlet spoke]

Afaik some plugins will be published by Nitrado on release

[sharp lake]

Nitrado is publishing plugins, and creative mode by itself will already be a bountiful example
I don't think they've confirmed any other builtins yet

[mortal latch]

Then it would be very nice yeah. If nitrado also publishes that’s even better

Some extra would still be cool and always welcomed ofc.

But then not too necessary I see

[scarlet spoke]

Slikey is working on official docs, so don't worry.

For the launch pretty much everything is set up and gets tested by 3rd parties to make it secure since several days.

New features will be added after release step-by-step

So the launch should be solid, probably a lil rough at the start but no big surprises

[formal burrow]

having to make an account to download something that already is offered on guest mode is crazy

[twin sonnet]

Hello i need a hytale developer or some server for ask some questions

@random magnet Will Hytale be released with essential plugins merged into the API? like essentials or luckperms?

[scarlet spoke]

There are already some plugins available which will fit into your requested features. Basically everything is a plugin.

[twin sonnet]

Instead of making continuous requests to a plugin to obtain permissions like lp, we could make them to the bungee or the API.

[rich solar]

They have native support built for perms. But everything is a plugin. Anything can be changed. A foundation base will probably be formed that most devs will follow

[twin sonnet]

And for those of us who have servers, it's important to know if we'll have to invest time and money in a LP or if this will already be included with Hytale itself.

[twin sonnet]

ya but we dont have a blogspot with this information and that it worries me

[rich solar]

Doesn't worry me. I dont need to be spoon fed every little detail. The 13th is almost here and each person will be able to explore freely what they can and can't do. EA is EA for a reason. Just give it some time and dont waste money if you are worried until EA is over.

We are going to see a lot of iterations early on

[twin sonnet]

Ya but my server has the premise to be of the first servers

[sterile venture]

Yes you and everyone else 🤣

[twin sonnet]

yaaa

[scarlet spoke]

You can use a singleton service for your permission system as API, aslong you expose the API and use it as dependency for your plugin

[twin sonnet]

But that's the question: is it better to assume the API will be awful and invest money, or not?

[sterile venture]

It’s better to wait, if you have concerns

[rich solar]

Find out on the 13th if its worth it or not.

[sterile venture]

I’m sure with their backing being hypixel we will see a lot of stuff that normal in Minecraft come over

[rich solar]

If you are in it for money? It will not be worth it early on. The amount of cash grab responses has been sad. If you are into it for a legacy or building a strong community then its probably worth the money,.

[twin sonnet]

Better is that they will publish a new blogspot with information of the API xD

[sterile venture]

They will but honestly I’d imagine others will jump on and make some cool stuff

[summer otter]

They released some info on this already let me grab the link

[rich solar]

hytalemodding(.) dev is a resource a lot of people have been following

[twin sonnet]

If for simon is important the servers community, he should been published a blogspot for the API

[sterile venture]

But have to keep in mind Hytale will be early and rough. Doesn’t mean it won’t get good but if you’re expecting the same level of stuff as a Minecraft server…your gonna be disappointed initially

[rich solar]

You are too small thinking. Tunnelling on something so small in the big picture.

[scarlet spoke]

Docs are wip, be patient

[sterile venture]

As someone who hates documentation I can’t blame them for not having it ready yet 🤣🤣🤣

[rich solar]

AI make document for this jar thanks

[sterile venture]

Yeah tbh I’ve been experimenting with just that cause I can’t stress how much it bores me 🤣🤣

[rich solar]

If you are using a good agent for code assistance. It should be a decent way for super early documentation. Although I was joking about it. Antigravity has done decent doc building from code. So has a few other agentive IDE's. So its not entirely a bad option.

[sterile venture]

It’s pretty decent at a rough early draft and honestly good for making stuff like “this API endpoint does this and calls these other classes”

[summer otter]

https://discord*.com/channels/1440173445039132724/1440185939170168832/1450840358648025128
it's in the:
https://discord.*gg/hytalemodding
server

[sterile venture]

Obviously shouldn’t release it as is without proofreading and making sure it’s correct haha

[rich solar]

I mean anything AI should be proofed before anything. I just hope those who decide to rely primarily on AI will at least learn the foundations first haha

[sterile venture]

100% vibe coding never worked for anyone lol

[rich solar]

I tried vibe coding a discord bot vs agentive project based control. ANd the vibe coding was 100% great for mock up and mock up alone

[sterile venture]

Oh for sure, it’s a more recent thing I’m playing with and it’s honestly pretty great and getting a proof of concept and mock project running.
It’s also pretty decent at troubleshooting and error tracking

[twin sonnet]

anywhere know a big hytale server?

[boreal radish]

all of the ones i know of have 0 players atm

you can probably go on youtube and search like "hytale server" and one will appear (or multiple)

[loud sail]

do we know what language plugins will use?

ahh cool ty

[summer otter]

java

[sacred tulip]

The majority of the work I'm assigned is KTLO development. On tasks I've tried LLMs for coding agents have solved most issues faster and better than I could have with my limited domain knowledge of the project at the time.

My coworkers use AI for everything: code reviews, test generation, new feature development, documentation / MR writeups, etc. Code quality doesn't matter because every so often there is an initiative to use AI for refactoring hot paths of the project.

I sometimes am under the impression that the company hired AI bots that pretend to be real people instead of actual remote workers. One time I sent my team a group message explaining a solution I thought of for a particular problem but a coworker rephrased the same solution as if it was their own idea. I think they copied and pasted the entire conversation into ChatGPT and asked it for a solution but it just spit out what I last wrote.

[sterile venture]

yeah when used responsibly its def an amazing tool

[rose atlas]

I had thought of an idea. A server plugin. But idk how possible it will be . If ever

[daring lodge]

vibe coding is bad for environment

use your brain to process tokens

[sterile venture]

yeah blindly trusting AI will lead to a bad time aha

[vernal niche]

What are we all working on chat?

[near raptor]

My patience for the game to release

Is what I am working on :p

[stray pasture]

Well, Ideas being shared is never an issue, want some paired thinking and scoping?

[rose atlas]

Something to do with discord rich presence

[stray pasture]

Ooh, what you got in mind?

[rose atlas]

Make a plugin that allows servers to display custom rich presence on its players discord status. Like name. Players whats happening and buttons to join community

If that will even have built in api for it.

Most likely not gonna be possible and if it is possible itll be limited to singleplayer worlds

[stray pasture]

Likely unable to do so on players behalf. But your right with the single-player, I doubt we will have any access for code execution on client.

Discord has plenty built in, even ability to join games/sessions/lobbies.

I am thinking if there is a companion app that would most defintily work though.

[rose atlas]

Its not a .exe

[stray pasture]

Yeah, unfortunately there would likely have to be some sort of companion app for anything other than single-player. At least as if right now not being able to touch any part of the client as far as I understand it. Could work like Aleca Frame does Warframe. Otherwise you defintily seem to understand the limitations already.

[stray pasture]

I just got done building my Temunity Engine (nicked from Unity Temu version) my 2 week long game engine I developed for fun. Now relaxing. How about you?

[sharp lake]

Are we just working on the assumption that Discord rich-presence isn't planned at all? Seems like a strange one lol
Lots of random things have it, even things that aren't games

[stray pasture]

Well I would assume it isnt planned. Defintily not high on a list. Plus custom rich presence would be fun!

[vernal niche]

Was able to pour the whole day into the WebServer plugin and made lots of progress. Good times.

[sharp lake]

But why would you assume it isn't planned?

[stray pasture]

Ey! Is there a message you sent about what that is and means I missed? 😄

[stray pasture]

Because I have no clue what their plans are. So I assume the worst and get suprised

[sharp lake]

Discord has like 200 million monthly active users and they have a first-party Discord that we're both chatting in LOL
I would not be surprised if there was some form of rich presence

Rich presence isn't usually something talked about before launch anyway, so it'll probably get higher priority once people are playing
It's a gimmick that casual players really like

[stray pasture]

Yeah, but how far will they take it is my point. Most games have custom rich presence, but few actually integrate into Discord well

Game working is usually more important than the auxiliary

[vernal niche]

I've been mentioning it a few times, and I keep a little bit of a dev log over on the HytaleModding Discord.

Essentially it's a base plugin that spins up a web server that other plugins can register to and get things like authentication solved out of the box. E.g. today I built that you can create a login code with an in-game command and use that to log into the web server page with your browser, so that you can interact with "web plugins" (like dynmap or whatever else) as your user with the appropriate permissions.

[sharp lake]

Discord's game integration doesn't really work to begin with, which is part of why games don't integrate into it well lol
It's broken on mobile, broken on the majority of PC platforms
And even in the best cases, it's splotchy due to URI handling and their IPC system

[stray pasture]

I like this. Defintily a useful system.

[sharp lake]

I just checked their docs too and the best case in their chart is "generally available" LMFAO

[stray pasture]

Discords social SDK is first party and very much supported. It is not half developed and not terribly difficult to work with.

[vernal niche]

We've had more than a decade of headaches with Minecraft plugins that open extra web servers on random ports so we are at least trying to get this under control from the get go

[sharp lake]

I have worked with Discord's social SDK, and have been working with rich presence since it was announced in general all those years ago
It literally is half developed, and it says so on their docs
discord*.*com/developers/docs/discord-social-sdk/core-concepts/platform-compatibility
The majority of platforms are experimental, and it's broken in even mainstream engines on platforms that aren't experimental

[stray pasture]

By the sounds of it. Makes systems like luck perms dramtically nicer within that idea. Foundational and welcomed.

[stray pasture]

I never ran into issues. Never really felt like an issue and has been reliable. So if they consider it half developed they got a nice high bar for what not half developed means.

[sharp lake]

Discord can't even get Spotify integration to work reliably 🙈
And they're literally partnered officially

I'm very surprised you've found it stable at all, what platforms do you use?

[stray pasture]

PC for my use case.

[sharp lake]

In my testing it's been inconsistent via Windows 10, Ubuntu, other popular Linux distributions, and all mobile platforms
I haven't tested with a Mac, but their own compatibility chart says it's broken in UE

"PC" isn't very specific given how many operating systems there are now

[stray pasture]

Windows 11.

I know their platform support isnt there. But their SDK is featured. Worked well for me with most of my game dev.

[rose atlas]

I love Windows 11, it's been really good for me

[glass crag]

will there be any info on how to init plugins/expose the API at launch

initial setup stuff like that interface to extend and what event triggers on startup

[sharp lake]

Is any of that work public? Maybe my implementations were just bad 😭
Game invites and launching were horrible to get working and I ended up scrapping it

[glass crag]

or is it entirely blind

[sharp lake]

is this what you mean? or no

[stray pasture]

No, unfortunately. But to your point half developed is the correct word. I just didnt run into any issues at the time.

[stray pasture]

What were you working in? If your able to state?

[sharp lake]

I was just working in Rust, so I was using their standalone C++ when needed and a few crates

Anyway I guess my point is that I wouldn't be surprised by rich presence in Hytale
But I would be surprised by a functional game invite system lol

[stray pasture]

Ah Rust is a language I so want to touch. And Zig 😛 just to say I did. 😂

[stray pasture]

This is fair. I totally understand. 😄 i think servers having this to jojnlobbies and all would be a wildly cool idea.

[sharp lake]

Rust isn't too difficult, it stops you before you do anything wrong basically
The compiler tells you what's wrong is plain English a ton of the time

You don't need to know anything about memory management to write in it, but you can still take advantage of things you do know about it

[fleet isle]

sometimes I like it when compiler solves the problem for me

[stray pasture]

I am accustomed to my footshotgun C++, so maybe a bandaid for my foot would be nice. 😄

[silver belfry]

Hi chat! Been developing minecraft plugins for years now and really interested in learning what we could be able to do when the game release :)
Is there already some documentation, or things I can read?

[sacred tulip]

I'm going to build hytale largest ad network

[sharp lake]

This is a community site, some of the information is out of date but it's a good starting point
hytalemodding*.*dev/en/docs/established-information/faq

[sacred tulip]

And server analytics

[silver belfry]

Thanks for sharing!

[merry rover]

Quick systems question:
Do you think it’s viable server-side to track player behavior patterns over time (movement, timing, positioning, skill usage frequency) and use that data to dynamically unlock or mutate abilities, instead of relying on predefined talent trees?

[sharp lake]

I don't see any reasons why you wouldn't be able to track these things
There might not be events added for all of those things yet, but with code injection you could emit your own events (which would hopefully be replaced by a proper API later)

[merry rover]

That makes sense.
In your opinion, would the main constraint be performance/tick cost on large servers, or more about maintainability and API stability over time?

[fringe ore]

Based on the mod they showed today, seems like its even more stable then minecraft lol

[sharp lake]

We don't really have enough information to determine how well the game runs
But given we'll be early access for the next few years, I'd imagine API instability will take up more development time

[merry rover]

That aligns with what I was thinking.
So it sounds like starting with a narrow, behavior-focused prototype and keeping the mutation logic data-driven (and loosely coupled to the API) would be the safest path during early access.

[sharp lake]

If you want to compare to Minecraft vanilla servers, it doesn't seem like it will be even close to a competition
They're already doubling player counts during their private playtests
It'll make better use of multi-core CPUs and is a lot more modular than Minecraft, meaning we can drop components unnecessary to the experience we're trying to develop

[boreal radish]

now that sounds exciting

[merry rover]

That’s reassuring to hear.
The modularity angle is especially interesting — it makes experimenting with adaptive systems feel much more realistic than in Minecraft’s tick-bound model.

[sharp lake]

It'd probably be easier to implement that, but it's still built on 30hz game ticks, so easier is not easy

[fringe ore]

Wait isnt it like 30 ticks per second?

[lucid mulch]

30 hz is 30 ticks per second.

[fringe ore]

Awh

That means smoother gameplay right?

[lucid mulch]

I mean it means they can do things at a faster interval. but they can to less in one interval

[merry rover]

Right, ~30 Hz tick. My thinking was to keep behavior sampling coarse-grained
(windowed / aggregated over time) and decouple mutations from per-tick logic,
so most of the system reacts to patterns, not frames.

[boreal radish]

i have a feeling it isnt exactly that simple but

[sharp lake]

Yeah, unless you're being resource-bound by something
Network lag could be worse depending on how they implement it

From what they've said, ticks != gametime
Which means if you start running behind in ticks, the time between ticks is longer
The game doesn't run in slow motion necessarily

[lucid mulch]

From that i mean you have XXX compute operations that can be made per second. If you divide that by 30... you get XXX/30 if you divide it by 20 you get more things you can do... But you can process events more quickly...

[fringe ore]

With it only being server side, are we able to implement anything like forge mods? I mean i like how forge has some amazing creations like physics and create

[sharp lake]

It's only server-side, but you can do a lot with just server-side
You'll be able to make mods like Create, unless you mean things like their rendering engine specifically

[fringe ore]

Im mostly interested in stuff like valkarian skies physics, eureka, clockwork

[lucid mulch]

Until you see the APIs and interfaces... there is no telling what is possible or not possible.

[fringe ore]

Fair its the slowest months of our lives waiting for this release

[lucid mulch]

I mean 8 days left until pre-release. Honestly... moding a game day one is bold. you dont even know what the vanilla mechanics are like

[fringe ore]

True, might be a weird month after release because there isnt really any apis, its gonna be prolly the models and such until behavior mods are done somewhat

[lucid mulch]

Is there any documentation for creators at all? I am assuming no because nothing is out yet.

[fringe ore]

No man's land, free forall

[boreal radish]

sounds like a no

[fringe ore]

Not that I know of

[boreal radish]

i hear server documentation will come out quickly on the 13th tho

[fringe ore]

Ooo like a small one tho right, bare minimum

[boreal radish]

maybe

[fringe ore]

We legit just need to play the game to get a better feel lol

[lucid mulch]

I mean it is in pre-release... nobody should expect that anything is stable...

[fringe ore]

First month just all play vanilla and enjoy
What exists.

The issue tho

[formal burrow]

claude code, chatgpt codex, gemini can be used to dissect the entire server jar in less than a day

You can run multiple workers at once to dissect and summarize each parts of the jar

[lucid mulch]

I will leave others to that... I am a programing luddite.

[boreal radish]

leave the hard work to the hard workers 👍 thats my strategy

[lucid mulch]

By that i mean i would rather actually understand what i am doing then use a LLM that is 80% accurate....

[fringe ore]

Who are you doing multi agents? What's your setup if I may ask, im using anti gravity ide rn as its decent but could be better.

[lucid mulch]

I understand it is quick... but you pay the tax in understanding or speed. you dont geth both for free.

[formal burrow]

I only have claude pro and just picked up claude code two weeks ago just fooling around

[boreal radish]

what can i say
if its 80% accurate do it twice so its 160% accurate

definitely how it works

[formal burrow]

but you can easily set up tons of different screens and start running a bunch of them at once, use Claude Opus to plan, or use Claude to extract each section. Make a .md. if you were ONLY using claude code, have claude code go through the entire .jar and split them into sections, create a .md for each worker to extract

[fringe ore]

Multi agents are only linear rn, I think the next step for them is to have agents talk to each other better whether its mcp or a file

[lucid mulch]

The next step for them is to increase their prices....

and then that isnt viable anymore..

[fringe ore]

Dang you prolly right. Gonna cry

[formal burrow]

you have a tasks .md, a workersummary .md, and a documentationsummary .md for each worker, then a master claude code that looks at all of them

[fringe ore]

Saves alot of time as a "tool"

[formal burrow]

chatgpt codex and claude pro are insanely cheap compared to using API right now it's a miracle

[fringe ore]

[lucid mulch]

The latest assessment of Open AIs business plan was they needed to speed 1.5T to only lose 200B. All of the LLM stuff is debt subsudized to the point where ram makers wont scale production... just prices because they know a crash is coming...

[fringe ore]

Ooof

[formal burrow]

I've said in this server before and I'll say it again... All it takes is some random dude to figure out how to replace RAM to increase the context window, to come up with a new algorithm. DeepSeek took barely a year or two to figure out how to replicate ChatGPT on just CPUs. It takes one random finnish dude to collapse OpenAI's RAM hoarding by simply inventing a technology to remove it's use

you wanna see them suffer: just invent a way to increase the context window without using so much RAM. It's easier said than done, but, you defeat these people by inventing a ChatGPT that can be run locally, inventing an algorithm that doesn't need RAM to that degree

[lucid mulch]

I mean or all it takes is for people to realize that 10% of the US job market isn't going to be replaced by only open AI in 4 years... like they project...

[formal burrow]

imma probably gonna learn a trade

im tired of these stupid tech companies playing politics and toying with people's fates

[fathom pelican]

You all see the new modding video ??

[lucid mulch]

I mean depending upon the trade... it is a mix. All of them have automation replacing some aspects of the jobs...

[fringe ore]

Running locally is amazing, I was surprised with llama

[fathom pelican]

Got me absolutely pumped

[formal burrow]

it's definitely exciting

[lucid mulch]

where was the video posted. Again i am way way behind

[formal burrow]

Gemma 3 can already be run on 500mb of RAM if I recall, it's not going to be as smart, but, you defeat these clowns by optimizing stuff, not by hoarding all that stupid hardware

[clear crow]

I dunno about you all. But that mod demo got me a little excited in more way than one.

[formal burrow]

back then 4GB of RAM was a LOT for android... it was more than enough. 8GB of RAM is the new 4GB of RAM on an android cause of how bloated things are

[fringe ore]

Awhh yes

[fathom pelican]

Can finally set up some dnd campaigns where my tech illiterate friends don’t have to manually install mods on each of their systems. The amount of stuff you can do purely server side is great

[fringe ore]

Soo true, I remember the days where we would haul our old pc to a friend's house to play lan

And have to install crap

Im not that old*

The Old monitors as well

[formal burrow]

the good news is the price of RAM will probably crash significantly in the future

once we get a real tech advance

[high tree]

If anyone wishes to help with building, or moderation on my server feel free to send me a friend request. I will be coding up some systems (some anime inspired) to feel more RPG

An example would be taking generated tasks for rewards

[sacred tulip]

It's too much in my opinion

[sacred tulip]

How would I handle auto update for plugins

I guess I can't really download new code onto the users device only notify them of a new update

I'm thinking it will check the version using GitHub endpoint if outdated it will send a request to download the new jar from GitHub place this into a versions folder and the main plugin just selects the latest version from the folder

Probably something I can use from ClassLoader

[stray pasture]

I wouldn't recommend "auto" updating. But it would be handled the same as any other update system. Push it on a content delivery server and poke at the version. I always recommend to notify and prompt, and if declined continue or disable the functionality except the updator.

[stray pasture]

This is my favorite part! 😄

[west elk]

I've decompiled minecraft plugins to rip out their auto updator before ^^

[elfin citrus]

has there been any confirmation on the ability to mod machines at all? Like, remaking something similar to mekanism or industrialcraft for example?

[west elk]

What kind of confirmation are you looking for that's specific to machines? It has been confirmed that blocks and props are data driven so it'll be possible to add custom blocks and objects with custom mechanics and interfaces. There are already community projects that aim to unify Energy and Storage/Transport systems so that multiple mods can interact with each other

[upbeat storm]

Don't

[elfin citrus]

where can I find these?

[west elk]

there are threads about it on the hytalemodding.dev discord

[karmic night]

Why the down vote on this? Auto updating stuff is the best way to mess your shish up

[sand spoke]

Hi guys, which language will be for scripting on hytale? any news?

sorry im new here, so.

[stray pasture]

Yall just said the same thing. 😂

[stray pasture]

Plugin dev will be in Java.

[sand spoke]

Nice!

[little shore]

Looking for experienced devs that can help make a few utility & minigame mods (paid) on/near launch

[sand spoke]

for hytale?

[little shore]

Yeah

[sand spoke]

oh. not yet my friend

[little shore]

Trying to get some early connections for those that want to learn to mod & are language agnostic / have modding experience from minecraft

[stray pasture]

Oooh. I may take ya up on this, dont count on me yet. Full time college and work ain't no joke. 😛

[little shore]

I was gonna do more myself, but I hate Java and am kinda saddened they had to go back to the old engine

[little shore]

Shoot me a DM 🙂

[stray pasture]

Let me know when ya accept that friend request and I sure will. 😛

[rose atlas]

Use builtbybit

[scarlet spoke]

Classic job interview: "Atleast 3 years experience", but game will come out in 8 days

[stray pasture]

You forgot the whole (writing perfect code, A* mathematics, and shipped 3 AAA titles.)

[sharp lake]

Shopping for Hytale developer with 7 years of experience minimum

Over the past few weeks, we have rehired more than 30 developers who know this game inside and out, with additional returns expected in the coming days.

[stray pasture]

Minimum is the cherry ontop!

[misty gyro]

everyone does so the only devs you can hire are in hytale team itself 😉

[zenith cypress]

DM if interested in joining a hytale modding community that aims to publish things under a dev team label, for added credebility. all work will be attributed to the creator(s). we want designers, modelers, builders and coders!

[little shore]

Ofc talking about normal dev experience / java / minecraft modding experience 🤣

I got 10+ years myself but can't look to me to code a Minecraft plugin xD

[tidal cape]

I wonder if it be possible to make a OG prison server on a hytale server? Like I'm talking OG prison servers from 12 years ago

[little shore]

I don't see why not if you have a vision

[tidal cape]

True but the issue is making it.

Been making Minecraft servers for years but since this is a whole other ballgame idk how it'll go lol

Like I already have a server pre-paid for to start working on stuff with lol

[stray pasture]

Watch that video of the mod in announcements.

[tidal cape]

Which one

[stray pasture]

#showcase

Most recent

[tidal cape]

Oh the rogue lite mod

Do you got any plans for the launch?

[karmic night]

???
I was asking why someone put a thumbs down on that message

[fleet blade]

Anyone already working on ports for essential Moderation Plugins and/or Factions Mods ? If so pls Dm, looking to either purchase the mods or hire a dev to port them from mc :)

[lavish otter]

How much ?

[vague sequoia]

is it possible already to make a plugin/mod for servers?

[silver cloak]

nop

[vague sequoia]

any interesting projects for hytale so far?

planned, i mean

[limber mica]

We are building hyfactory.net, a skyblock factory automation server inspired in games like satisfactory and factorio but is still in very early dev.

[little shore]

Depends on the plugin & your costs & market rates I suppose

[prisma olive]

You could offer a hourly rate to so it scales with project complexity, using minecraft rates as reference

[lavish otter]

That seems fair, I will look this up

[vague sequoia]

i love tech mods

[limber mica]

yeah me too, i think there is a lot of potential and we will try to do our best to keep it simple and enjoyable

[silver cloak]

I need trains

Can't wait to create a train plugin

[limber mica]

If you want to join the project we are accepting all help available, discord is in the website

[empty echo]

Hi, when will the documentation be released? Thanks.

[junior hawk]

We have 8 days left till EA starts. Probably won't be anything till then.

[quasi lynx]

Hey everyone, quick question, I’m building a small CLI tool to manage Hytale mods/plugins : init templates, validate assets/data, pack into a distributable bundle, CI/CD, and a maybe a dev watch/sync loop for fast iteration.

I’m not really sure if Hytale will ship an official CLI, would you use something like this?

[still mist]

Which project?

[woeful depot]

Anything about server requirements?

[limber mica]

.

[sacred tulip]

I'm building hytale largest ad network it helps server admins monetize

[vague sequoia]

tuff

[high tree]

If anyone wishes to help with building, or moderation on my server feel free to send me a friend request. I will be coding up some systems (some anime inspired) to feel more RPG

An example would be taking generated tasks for rewards

[light lance]

World Gen v2 blogpost comes out in 55 minutes

[summer otter]

cool, so you're already talking with ad providers? And how are you planning to put them ingame? Just like websites? Games with interrupting things or something else completely?

[stray pasture]

As far as I have gathered this is something unlike any other world gen.

[light lance]

I believe you're correct

[scarlet spoke]

Forget big, it will be huge

[sacred tulip]

I'm going to be the ad provider

[stray pasture]

Well if it isn't ground breaking I won't be happy...

Its all I have been hearing is it's never before seen.

[light lance]

Well yeah, im sure you could break the ground with it, that seems pretty basic /s

[summer otter]

goodluck with talking to companies in that case. I highly doubt if you will succeed at start in such a case. Not trying to demotivate you, I like the ambition, but there must be a need to be solved for anyone spending money on those ads. So you need to write your own targeting algorithms based on the server type, and maybe players which then need to comply with GDPR and cookie policies

[stray pasture]

Well server listing do well without a lot of those issues

[sacred tulip]

Server lists pay a lot for spots already

[summer otter]

it's not a server listing

from what I understand right? It's real ads

owh just server lists

[scarlet spoke]

Gambling ads lol.

[stray pasture]

Oh. I feel YouTube would just be better. 😄

[summer otter]

true to some extent

you are not allowed to sell to European customers in such a case and collect any European data.

[stray pasture]

I wouldnt know. Law is hard.

[summer otter]

btw won't hytale have its own serverlist in the near future

[merry stone]

i think they only said that for the mod list

[misty gyro]

nope they just said on twitter that they will have a dedicated server list in the game built-in

[merry stone]

ill be damned

[misty gyro]

it will just not be there on release day thats IMO also not a big problem xD

[silver cloak]

Yep

dammit hytale!!! I wanted to pay 10,000 dollars to be on top of a botted server list site 😠

[grizzled egret]

I am so interested how the community will pick up certain plugin projects

[near raptor]

Id be happy if those botted server lists would be a thing of the past

[versed viper]

is there any big mmo style projects going on?

[stray pasture]

Server list or browser?

[summer otter]

you mean the serverlist concept? From what I understood it would have tags so I think it's also a browser

[keen flax]

Hey Bro are you open collaboration with YouTube creators atm

[misty gyro]

as always

[daring lodge]

serverlists are so bad

they pay ads for top spot from predatory gambling in game

[delicate crag]

It depends on if it's a serverlist website or a server browser like in valve games.

[daring lodge]

for minecraft

[abstract barn]

How does world gen v2 work? Is the terrain/chunk generation multithreaded, or does it run mostly on a single cpu core like minecraft java?

[fringe ore]

Okay, so day 1 what needs to be done permissions system, spawn protection, essentials...

Who is making what

[vernal niche]

Permission system is in already

[fringe ore]

I mean to what extent, api usage to extend to mods/plugins customize... or generic like op, member etc?

Im thinking luckperms

Sorta setup

[vernal niche]

There's groups and individual permissions. Users can be assigned to groups or directly to permissions. Permissions also support globbing with wildcards (*).

AFAIK most if not all built-in commands have their own separate permission

[fringe ore]

Oh dang thats great

Thanks for that simple explanation

[chrome tundra]

So a luckperms like approach I guess ?

[vernal niche]

There's an OP group but it's just defined as

"OP": ["*"]

[vernal niche]

Pretty similar, yeah

[sterile dove]

How about cross server perms?

[vernal niche]

You could easily replace the existing PermissionManager with one that queries a database. Walk in the park.

[sterile dove]

Okay so 3rd party perm manager basicly needed

[gleaming temple]

@vernal niche do we get your numbers of your performance tests on release date ? or they then still under nda ?

[sterile dove]

Unless u can just easily hook redis or something to it then it would be 🔥

only by changing storage loc

[vernal niche]

We're working on updated numbers but most of us just got back from the holidays today so we're scrambling a lil bit

[gleaming temple]

oh nice, so we get updated numbers then ? even better (:

[stray pasture]

Okay World Gen V2:

Our APIs are also automatically multithreaded and provide full read access to the surrounding world context, simplifying logic and freeing up mod developers to focus on capabilities.

They don't really state how exactly it fits, however I would have to assume it is multithreaded.

Node based generation is interesting and sounds like it may act a lot like a shader graph like in Unreal Engine. - This is quite cool! Not really "Next Gen" but definitely granular and accessible.

This is really nice, the tooling definitly pushes that into a grand playing field.

[vernal niche]

I think you might be misunderstanding the complexity. This would be a pretty basic plugin to support an external data source. No need to change the overall architecture

[sterile dove]

ye thats what i ment

Thats sick

Day 1 support for noesisgui xaml file? or .noesis file:3? Most important thing i would love to know

[vernal niche]

Not knowledgeable on those aspects or plans, sorry!

[silver cloak]

Check hytaleDOTcurseforgeDOTcom

They mentioned a ui editor

[sterile dove]

Ye, will see how its implemented

[fringe ore]

I finally finished reading through the world gen 2 stuff... and... WOW. The control they give, they were not kidding about the game being built around modding / design

Also an entity being this big...that WHALE

[stray pasture]

Yeah, the tooling is impressive. Very accessible.

[fringe ore]

Yeah hytale will probably kill minecraft for me. Wasn't expecting this insanity built for the community.

[light lance]

The only reason I'll really have to play Minecraft is specific modpacks that ive been following for a while

[stray pasture]

Defintily two seperate games entirely. But It sounds fantastic.

[stray pasture]

We see its cool now, but the vision is execution is totally a thing. I'm not trying to be a Debbie downer, but dont idolize things prior to experience and a good sizable chunk of it.

[fringe ore]

Note taken! Always good to take a full look before making a final decision

[latent spindle]

Guys who did hytale partner for hytale plugins?

Or where can we find server plugins for hytale

[sacred tulip]

Sky whales are pretty cool

[runic panther]

Good afternoon everyone, there isn't a JAR file yet to generate a server, is that right?

[light lance]

No, not yet

[prime monolith]

can we create mods already ? Why do I see people on twitter already creating mods ? Where is the documentation ?

[light lance]

Hytale mods will initially be hosted on Curseforge as part of a partnership, but its not exclusive so there will probably be other places that they're available

[runic panther]

Thanx

[light lance]

People are assuming some community members and creators have access to Hytale currently so they can create mods

Do we have any info on whether world gen v2 will include an increased height limit when its fully rolled out?

[fringe ore]

With that massive whale, Hopfully lol

Also,

Do we know if mods installed can be easily auto updated through 3rd party or directly from their up coming mod installer?

I would assume yes*

[light lance]

Yeah, I'm gonna assume yes as well. Curseforge is able to keep Minecraft mods auto-updated depending on the modpack versions you install, so I'm sure their built in browser will have the same functionality

[stray pasture]

A lot of this auto update stuff is a more infrastructure than anything. Its not usually thought about, in their case I would be suprised if they have it ready on launch. Game usually comes first.

[light lance]

I think at least a simple version check with a notification if there's a newer version would be easy enough. Maybe not on game launch but certainly for the in built browser

[latent spindle]

Guys lets say my friends accidentally downloaded a mod with virus.. when i join his server will i be prone to the virus too? Since it will also be downloaded automatically to my game

[fringe ore]

Nope clients "should" be safe

Affects server host only

At least what im told

[arctic mist]

As far as server side modding goes, server only provides assets for the textures and instructions to the client. Everything is handled at Host, so you should be "safe"

Probably in a future vulnerabilities will be there but as of right now, client should be safe from infected servers

[stray pasture]

If you can find a way to send malicious stuff through an asset (can be done I am sure) then you got a problem. But that is likely to malform the data and fail to load. I'm sure people can get creative. But very much not worth th effort.

[dry cliff]

Does anyone know if the plugins will be like the ones for Minecraft with Spigot? I'm a beginner Java developer, and I don't know much about the plugin market, but it's quite interesting.

[west elk]

Yes, it will be similar to Spigot plugins. The plugins will be loaded in a similar way, and you'll have a similar concept of event handlers. One of the biggest differences we're aware of so far is that Hytale uses Entity Component System where Minecraft uses OOP. So that's something you can take a look at over the next week

[dry cliff]

Thanks, I'll take a look when Early Access launches

[lost maple]

any dev documentation

[summer otter]

not yet

[rose atlas]

If a dev sees this, Will Hytale provide APIs that allow servers to integrate with Discord Rich Presence, such as displaying server/community info, player counts, and a join button on users’ Discord profiles?

[sterile venture]

That’s more of a client side thing usually, since it’s per user and would have the client get that information from the server and send to discord

[rose atlas]

Thanks.

[silent chasm]

Hello everyone.
Early Access starts in 8 days on January 13, 2026. I'm starting Hytale News Radio, an in-game radio show and podcast.
It will cover:

Patch notes and dev updates
Mod showcases
Community news
Custom music tracks

The show runs through a server-side radio mod with a simple overlay HUD that loads automatically for players on the server.
I'm looking for 2-3 co-hosts who enjoy talking about Hytale and have a decent mic. If you're interested, react below or send me a DM with a short note about yourself and your availability.
Thanks. Looking forward to starting this with the community on day one.

[delicate quest]

Hi! A question for java devs: spring ecosystem would be overengineering for hytale modding? If it is, could you recommend a lightweight toolset for replacing it (eg. for DI, config management, etc)

[silent chasm]

Yeah, Spring is way overkill for Hytale plugins. Startup overhead and JAR bloat aren't worth it in a game server context.
Stick to plain Java + the official API. For lightweight needs:

DI → Guice (minimal and fast) or just manual wiring
Config → built-in YAML (or Typesafe Config/HOCON if you want more flexibility)

Most plugins stay simple enough that you won't even need DI.

[sharp lake]

Read #rules-and-info, this isn't the place and you're not allowed to advertise

[sterile robin]

Hi everyone — quick technical question about modding in Early Access.
Do we know whether the scripting/API layer will provide access to things like player position, area/zone detection, world events, item/inventory hooks and server-side logic that can react to players being near each other or inside specific locations?
I’m just trying to understand the general scope of what will be exposed to mods at this stage. Thanks!

[sharp lake]

I don't think we've had any of this confirmed yet
I wouldn't bank on a thorough API to start though; we'll probably have to rely on code injection to emit our own events for a bunch of these things

[sterile robin]

i know prob day one we don't get it, i ask if its a prerogative

[stray pasture]

Oh but DI is fantastic.

[sharp lake]

dependency injection?

[stray pasture]

Yep!

[stray pasture]

For them to want modding from the start this would be a very sad approach. I would hope they are building a nice thorough API to launch with.

[sharp lake]

I wouldn't be surprised if their asset modding tools are the modding focus currently

Relying on data driven and modular designs to carry the backend modding for now

But it would be nice if I'm wrong

[stray pasture]

From the looks of their plugin demo, that was pretty comprehensive for a mod. I at least hope, it would likely hurt their programming base if it just sucked to work with after hearing their focus on it.

[sharp lake]

Yeah, their plugin demo admittedly looked pretty advanced
Everything we heard before that suggested their focus was on asset modding though
We could ask @vernal niche, he was doing some real plugin work

He previously mentioned the modularity, but I don't think he said anything about API or event hooks (outside of the basic anatomy of a plugin)

[vernal niche]

I have seen events that a plugin can subscribe to. But I can't really tell you how granular they are, haven't really played with that except for "player connected"

[sterile robin]

and for audio ? couse i see only server side mod

[vernal niche]

I mean audio (music, sfx) is just assets, so this works.

If you wanna stream audio that might be a different story.

[tired falcon]

x[dot]com/HytaleNewsYT/status/2008201930913542427

This looks like such a classic bukkit plugin

[sterile robin]

no voice chat?

[boreal radish]

if you say so

[west elk]

Proximity voice chat is planned for the near future. But won't be in the game at launch

[tired falcon]

Hey @vernal niche does Hytale chat have clickable links?

[sterile robin]

Sorry to bother, do you know if documentation will be available on day one?

[crimson karma]

so how does one get this elusive early access to modding I keep hearing all about. Ya boy has entire game systems ready to be hooked in 😇

[sterile robin]

Anyone interested in collaborating on structured mods & systems for Hytale?

Hi! I’m organizing a small group of people who want to build mods in a structured and scalable way, not just quick proof-of-concepts.

The goal is to design reusable systems (storage networks, automation, tools, etc.) with clean code and good architecture, so they can grow over time and be shared with other modders once the Hytale API is available.

I already started drafting documentation, project layout and a small core framework — if you like modding from a “systems & engineering” perspective, let’s talk 🙂

Everyone is welcome — programmers, designers, artists, technical writers, toolmakers.

Drop a comment or send me a message if you’re curious!

[sacred tulip]

clean code and good architecture

How would you define 'clean code'

Does this really matter with use of LLMs

[west elk]

We will mostly rely on decompiling the server .jar and looking at internal/3rd-party plugins for reference

They said that they will open their gitbook docs to us, but I don't think they mentioned if that will be at launch or later.

In any case, the community will do a lot of documenting and publish guides very quickly

[stray pasture]

Oh yes. 😄

[vestal root]

Is there a documentation release yet for Hytale plugins or will this be released on the day of pre-release?

[rich solar]

read two messages up

[vestal root]

ahh thanks.

[sacred tulip]

Well then having a plugin large enough for clean code to matter is an anti-pattern because plugins are supposed to have single purposes

[stray pasture]

This isnt true. Plugins can be whatever you make them. Just organize and architect. You can have many plugins within one package, or many uses within a single plugin.

[viscid wren]

I hope Hytale's "universe" APIs make it easy to create non-euclidean worlds with portals where you can see parts of two worlds at once without weird hackiness. In MC, you need to use the player's camera location + direction + the location of the portal blocks to create a cone-like shape that renders a fake segment of the alternate universe client-side (including entities)... it's less magical when the seams are visible, although you can hide them somewhat. Just a lot of work. The game engine could at least do a little bit to help.

[unkempt meteor]

EssentialsX/CMI:

[sacred tulip]

Both examples of anti-patterns

[stone cedar]

man i wish essentials had a core plugin and then you can add modules to it with what you want... i dont want 99% of what it offers

[sacred tulip]

Plugins should add exactly what you need and that's it. Having a monolithic plugin like EssentialsX makes it so you are removing functionality instead of adding

[fathom pelican]

well that was definetely a weird purchasing process but finally got the cursebreaker edition

[stray pasture]

I agree with ya here. - Though the less plugins you have to load the faster it loads, so while an anti pattern for most is a benefit for some. It is up to what you need. If its all custom developed it is usually a benefit to just run a single plugin as it is a single load which usually allows very fast startups.

[sharp lake]

We don't really have load time measurements at this time lol, it could be in milliseconds for hundreds of individual plugins

If there is a built-in way to manage and install plugin bundles, which can be added to packs themseles, then this is a non-issue and it's better to keep it modular

Monolithic plugins are also worse for security, and I'm sure there are other shortcomings

If a user doesn't need all of your modules, they shouldn't be loading unnecessary code that could be exploited

[hearty wing]

Will server jar be available on release ?

[sterile robin]

Fair enough — your case works in that context.
But tell that to Applied Energistics… its entire ecosystem is so interconnected that “modular for the sake of modular” would be a downgrade, not an upgrade.

[sharp lake]

I agree that content mods should not be exclusively modular

[stray pasture]

I don't see how it is a security issue. If that is a security issue, your modular ones will be too.

It really is just personal preference here. - Code is code, doesn't matter if its in a tiny plugin or a big plugin.

[sterile robin]

tell to dota to do a modular one XD

[sharp lake]

If there is a security issue in one module, you can specifically exclude that module lol
If they're not modular, it's a zero-day for your entire plugin and will affect everyone

The less third party code you load, the better
Presumably it has less eyes on it than the base game, and will be harder to push hot-fixes out

Just as an example
If there were a privilege escalation exploit in Essentials' "signs" module, any servers that do not make use of the module would be unaffected
This is actually how their plugin was setup, retro Essentials was actually modular and has a bunch of different plugins that were bundled together

And because of how far-reaching the Essentials suite is, it was a literal security concern not to do that

[stray pasture]

Sure, that is a fair argument. Then again I don't care to keep up with modular aspects to many degrees and rather split of when I feel it makes sense. - I however also don't really plan to give out my plugins as I am developing for fun and don't want the hassle to maintain and fix for everyone but myself.

It is personal preference for modularity. - Monolithic has the benefit of exposing issues rather quickly.

Your not wrong, and have fantastic points. But for me its not the right call.

[sharp lake]

What utility plugins are you making exactly where you're avoiding modularity?

The core concept of Essentials is that it's a suite, so it's intrinsically wide-scoped
Anything that doesn't have a scope wider than the Atlantic is probably modular enough as it is lmao

[stray pasture]

Whatever I feel. - Nothing specific, I personally love modularity, but I also find it a pain to deal with sometimes. Keeping everything in sync if not atomic, breaking apart into smaller modules when you find duplications and depenencies.

It just loves to grow into a bigger and bigger web as you go, it becomes more management and planning than making.

[sharp lake]

I'm looking at all the top Minecraft plugins at the moment and I'm not really seeing any monoliths
So I don't really foresee this becoming a problem on Hytale anyway
It kind of looks like the bad practices eventually died off
Or only the ones who follow good practices succeed to begin with

[sterile robin]

soo what you mean for monolitics ?

[stray pasture]

Monolithics*

Building plugins in a less modular sense

[sharp lake]

A monolithic plugin is when you have a plugin that does a lot of different things

[stray pasture]

I do agree with you for public facing plugins, for community wide plugins etc modularity is good! - But for a fun project on my own time for me, I don't really care besides breaking out libraries when needed.

Bad practice? No, Personal development preference? Yes.

[sterile robin]

love gpt
Tech / automation

Applied Energistics 2 — network, storage, autocrafting, channels… all part of the same internal ecosystem.

Mekanism — machines, gas system, energy, jetpack, tools… highly integrated in a single package.

IndustrialCraft 2 — power generation, machines, tools, reactors, all within the same core.

Immersive Engineering — machines, power networks, multiblocks, aesthetic tech, all designed as a coherent system.

Ender IO (old versions) — conduits, machines, farming, XP, tools… many features but a single unified module.

✨ Magic / progression systems

Botania — mana-based magic and “flower-tech” automation, all part of one coherent design.

Thaumcraft — research, aspects, magical crafting, golems, dimensions… everything in the core system.

Astral Sorcery — constellations, rituals, progression tree, with strong internal integration.

Blood Magic — altar system, rituals, and a single unified progression loop.

🛠️ Other big single-mods

Tinkers’ Construct (classic) — full tool system, smeltery, alloys, etc.

Create — mechanics, kinetics, automation, rails, with a single cohesive internal logic.

Ice & Fire (from RLCraft mod lineup) — large blocks of content and systems contained in a single mod.

the best one XD

[sharp lake]

Such as one mod controlling a player's permissions, their different characters, and global IP bans
These individual concepts shouldn't be managed by the same plugin because they're not only sensitive and privileged operations, but because it's not as convenient for the end-user

[sharp lake]

I would consider literally none of these to be valid examples!

[stray pasture]

I have no background knowledge of these. 😄 - Would you like to translate that into our convo? 😄

[sterile robin]

y sry i'm italian XD

[sharp lake]

They're all content mods, like Fabric and Forge
They have a lot of content available and offer unique experiences
They're not utilities or plugins

It does happen to list the features of each one basically
But it boils down to magic mods, with themes of: wizardry, rituals, blood magic, flowers

These aren't examples of mods you'd split up to reduce security vulnerabilities because they all have a relatively small scope, and aren't very privileged

[stray pasture]

Understood. Yeah, content is a single purpose no need to really modulate those. This is much of what I plan to do but more engine/platform based rather content and things to do.

[sharp lake]

Mekanism is a content mod that does happen to be modular as well, it's not a monolith
But that's kind of a moot point because I don't think modularity rules really apply to content mods like these

[stray pasture]

Oh shoot, I misread a message above, we are on the same page... - You stated Utility. (This convo literally went on for no reason) My fault

[sterile robin]

same i wanna fly XD not work ...

[sharp lake]

Content is usually un-privileged work, so it's less of a security concern

Especially in Hytale where we'll have components and a system actually designed with content mods in mind

You won't even need a ton of custom code for the majority of content mods I assume

I'm kind of expecting we'll have "node" libraries that add extra nodes for use in content mods
And the majority of the code will be inside of libraries like that, with very limited mod-specific code

[sterile robin]

y just custom logic fore sure in v 0.0.0

[stray pasture]

Yeah, I agree.

I am planning on more platform/factory like plugins - A plugin that can build minigames (rather than developing per minigame) - Type of idea. I rather get closer to an "Engine" than a "Game" and use it to make games.

[sharp lake]

Yeah, a library for the visual scripting system that allows easier mini-game design would be a nice one to have

Especially, if you stick to the components code style the base game is aiming for

[stray pasture]

Exactly. - But ways to define arenas, spawns, teams, score/objectives, weapons etc. - (Thats my modularity) 😄 But its more of a content rather than a utility in my oppinion all required for one goal.

[sterile robin]

fore sure ill'be gonna use it

because my idea is to make a gameplay loop where players have to defend a biome to get a resource

let me know pls

[ornate pendant]

@vernal niche If it's a WebRCON server, will we create the hytale server using your server?

[hearty wing]

Will servers be available on release ?

[karmic night]

Bros im so hyped for this game to release

The potential is insane

[steep lion]

I'm aware the actual hytale server software isn't public yet, so I'm going to test a simple QUIC echo server/client to make sure the connection to my server machine works... however

configuration.load_cert_chain(certfile="cert.pem", keyfile="key.pem")

This seems a bit troubling

Should I create my certificates on Let's Encrypt or something? I already have a domain for my server project

I don't really understand how Hytale is going to handle certificates

[karmic night]

You can literally use self signed certs

[steep lion]

I mean for testing sure

[karmic night]

Let's Encrypt is easiest though

[steep lion]

I'd need my certs for production server right

[karmic night]

Or Cloudflare

I assume so, idk how it's going to work in practice

[steep lion]

I mean maybe Hytale could generate a self signed certs and hand over the public key to the client in a secure way which allows people to host a server without owning a domain

But if I do have a domain already getting certs from a trusted source like Let's Encrypt would be better anyway (and I hope Hytale server allows providing custom certs)

[midnight orbit]

I just hope that many of the mechanics related to server creation will remain as simple as Minecraft, or even easier. Minecraft has been a huge success thanks to the entire community being able to create their own things in the blink of an eye

So I hope that any avoidance of domains, etc., in favor of certificates will be avoided. This will allow many of the same techniques from MC to be transferred to Hytale and make people feel more comfortable. This will definitely have an impact on the game's eventual success.

[steep lion]

QUIC protocol requires servers to have a SSL certificate, and that's just how the protocol works
But it's up for Hytale developers to implement a system to automatically handle the (self-signed) certificates for you

[midnight orbit]

So I understand that the use of QUIC has already been mentioned somewhere?

[steep lion]

yes

[midnight orbit]

I'm just getting started in this community, catching up on overdue posts ;p

Maybe there is some summary of what we already know about plugin programming?

[steep lion]

We don't have information on whether Hytale has such a system to handle certificates
but considering there will be many players wanting to host a quick server to play with friends, it's likely they already handle it

And if they don't... you can still get a free domain in various places like DuckDNS

[midnight orbit]

Why not both ;p

You can always create two systems, a fast one for simple gaming with friends and standard dedicated servers running on a domain-IP

[steep lion]

It's surprising we haven't been told much about certs though

Because if Hytale is going to create self-signed certificates for you, it needs some sort of master server that every Hytale server needs to communicate with on every boot

[stray pasture]

They are doing this?

[steep lion]

This also raises a question on whether Hytale servers are associated with a specific account or not

[stray pasture]

That was not the message I replied to, it was the one below. 😄

[steep lion]

If they don't, any server owner would need to have a domain and manage their certificates by themselves

[stray pasture]

Their goal is to be much like Minecraft, self hosted dedicated. I will assume no cert and no account ties.

[steep lion]

Well you can't have a QUIC server without certificates

[stray pasture]

Well, you can setup your own though.

[steep lion]

How do players trust your certificates

[stray pasture]

Ah shoot I forgot bout that part. 😂 - That is a good point.

[midnight orbit]

The master server will allow them to have control over the community servers, just like Mojang does.

[steep lion]

Actually Minecraft does not have a master server like that

they do have authentication but it only triggers when someone is logging in

[midnight orbit]

Yes, I know, I mean they will have control over it just like Mojang does 🙂

[stray pasture]

I think their auth servers do more than that. - It is Microsoft we talking about...

[steep lion]

I'd assume, a Hytale server always communicates with the master server and tells their public key beforehand
When a player tries to log into your server, it first asks the master server to get the public key to trust for that session

[midnight orbit]

But why are you worried about that at the moment?

[steep lion]

If the master server needs to remember the public key for every Hytale server out there, they probably need to limit the number of servers per account

[midnight orbit]

For now, I'm focusing on pure plugin programming, a fast server on nitrado and we're off, without having to worry about server files, the machine, or starting the server.

[midnight orbit]

If that were the case, then servers like Hypixel in Minecraft wouldn't exist, with their per-account server limits. When a single minigame lobby was often a separate server, they wouldn't do that.

[stray pasture]

I see what your talking about and I am NOW curious to.

[sacred tulip]

Every time a player joins a minecraft server a request is sent to sessionserver mojang com by the player and server

[steep lion]

Well it's different from MC's case because the server knows someone is trying to log in before it authenticates

[midnight orbit]

Unless they have a different idea for handling such a large number of players, without creating subservers for things like minigames. But thanks to QUIC, you can swap the client's server IP without disconnecting it, so they'll likely go the same route, just without the gimmicks like BungeeCord. QUIC will simply make it easier.

[steep lion]

QUIC protocol doesn't let the client talk to the server unless the client has a trusted public key

So the client can't directly ask the server "hey what's your public key that I need to trust"

[midnight orbit]

You keep repeating the same topic, which won't cause you any problems, believe me.

[formal burrow]

we are lucky that if any of us have to scale heavily we can just transfer packet people

[stray pasture]

But doesnt this still require that new server to be authorized to speak to the client?

[formal burrow]

what do you mean? I thought you just send the client a packet from the server to the server you want to send it to

[stray pasture]

Your right, it wont cause any issues. But it doesn't hurt to know, and to be fair I rather learn as much as I can than to be willfully ignorant about it.

[formal burrow]

wait a minute so people can't direct connect via IP (not domain)

[stray pasture]

Well they said they are handling the proxy problem, so they may not require each server to have a cert just the "master" and any sub server can be proxied to for free

[midnight orbit]

QUIC is doing this in background, you can change server the client is connected to, without disconnecting him

[stray pasture]

No need for a new handshake just a rereoute.

@steep lion ^ Does this sound like a solution you were thinking?

[steep lion]

To be honest I don't think the number of servers per account would be an issue but the point is that the Hytale system needs to be aware of ALL servers that are currently online

[stray pasture]

They can bake the cert into the game so the client accepts. They don't need to phone home for an example

[steep lion]

but doesn't that mean sharing the same private key across all servers

[midnight orbit]

With Hytale, we're so lucky to have people who have cut their teeth creating servers, who understand our common pain points, and know what could have been done better back then. I'm optimistic.

[stray pasture]

I believe so.

To be fair keys are not a big database issue. They are just a simple value. And DBs can handle many more servers that could every be created

[stray pasture]

I lied, each server could use the root CA that could be baked, and the server its self could generate its own private keypair.

Client trusts the ca, but every server has a different private key but signed by the same ca

I hate guessing this stuff, there are so many ways about it. 😄

[midnight orbit]

But that's the best part! It reminded me of the 2011-2013 days when I started programming Bukkit plugins and we were figuring out a lot of things on forums about how things worked 😛

[steep lion]

Well the specific infrastructure setup behind that is getting out of my knowledge so I asked an AI of the potential issues

Online Requirement: For your server to get its certificate signed, it must be able to talk to Hypixel's Master Server. You could not run a Hytale server in a "LAN-only" or "Offline" mode easily with this setup.

Computational Load: If Hytale has 100,000 servers rebooting after an update, Hypixel's Master Server has to sign 100,000 certificates simultaneously. That is a massive cryptographic load.

both seems like a pretty valid issue with this approach

[midnight orbit]

And even better were the times of the release of spigot and the options it provided, nothing changed this community as much as the release of spigot and all these gadgets like bungeecord.

[west elk]

I probably don't know enough about quic but why would a self signed certificate not work?

[steep lion]

it totally does, as long as Hytale has a system to tell the client any server's public key before joining

[west elk]

Ah I see

Chicken and egg problem

[midnight orbit]

BTW, do we know the EA release time? Or is it just midnight as usual?

[sacred tulip]

100,000 servers could last over 5 minute reboot window just rate limit + auto retry

[west elk]

Timer on the website

[midnight orbit]

ohh forgot

[steep lion]

But we've surprisingly had no relevant information about it from devs so I question if they even handle self signed certificates at all

[midnight orbit]

Thats their problem, not yours. Chill with that really

[west elk]

It isn't a problem. Obviously they have a solution since the game is releasing in a week. It's just interesting for us to theorize about.

[sacred tulip]

Do certs need re-issuing after every reboot anyways? This part I do not understand

[latent spindle]

Shouldn't hytale also let plugin devs adv test the game to make plugins for servers on day 1?

[steep lion]

certificate concerns are rarely talked about here even though literally every server needs one (mandated by QUIC protocol itself)

[steep lion]

there are only two answers really

1. they have a backend infrastructure, anyone can quickly host a server to play with friends
2. they don't have a backend infrastructure, any server owner needs to provide their own certificates (which often requires a domain)

we will know in a week

it all comes down to the question of "do I need to own a domain to host a server"

[midnight orbit]

Why wouldn't you have a domain? Does anyone still use IP addressing? Every hosting service already guarantees you a free subdomain.

[steep lion]

not everyone pays for a game server hosting service

it's way way easier to have a selfhosted server and play with friends

[midnight orbit]

So if you can afford a VPS or other dedicated server, you can also afford a domain for a few pennies a year.

[steep lion]

yeah that's what I do because I want a public server

but what about people who just wants to play for an hour with friends

[west elk]

Especially when you just want to open up your single player game to your friends

[midnight orbit]

Setting up a server in mc on your own machine also always involved purchasing a domain lol

[steep lion]

no????

that's just very false

[midnight orbit]

Well, if you created a PUBLIC server that could only be connected by rewriting the IP numbers, then ;d

[sacred tulip]

Some subdomains are free you can host on them

I used ngrok for getting a free domain on my mc server while ago

[midnight orbit]

yep

[midnight orbit]

I'm trying to explain this to him, but we have some kind of domain enemy here

[west elk]

domains are just not a requirement for anything

[midnight orbit]

Considering what QUIC allows by default, requiring a domain is like a gift from God 🙂

[steep lion]

if hytale has a backend for remembering public keys, the entire system could blow up just by many people running servers (even with no players)

in minecraft, the authentication servers are communicated only after someone joins a server

[midnight orbit]

Why would this break Hytale's eco system?

[steep lion]

if the backend server goes down, you won't be able to join any servers

[midnight orbit]

The master server doesn't have to be a single instance; it can be a complex network of servers connected through a variety of efficient methods. Load balancing and request queuing can also be added.

[steep lion]

I mean yeah, realistically it's unlikely people would actually overwhelm the backend system

[sacred tulip]

Why does QUIC need a master server to remember public keys? With a chain of trust if your key is signed by a certificate authority then the client would also trust it

[steep lion]

where do you get certs signed by a certificate authority

when you just want to host a private server for friends

[west elk]

I only see it bundled in the server .jar in this case. So you download it with the server

[midnight orbit]

Thats not how certs work ;d

[west elk]

or a "get my cert" next to the server download button

[midnight orbit]

Thats alo not h ow certs work

Technically, it's a bit more advanced

[steep lion]

It's really curious that certificates are not even hinted at a single time by developers
What is their solution with it?

[fallow stream]

You sound disappointed lol

[steep lion]

I can only guess they have a master server to hand over self-signed certs, and that would also allow them to keep track of every Hytale server for their future server browser

[midnight orbit]

They don't mention it because it's a simple, basic thing that anyone who wants to use their own dedicated server should understand, including Linux support. It's like expecting them to teach you the basics of Debian.

[steep lion]

mm

well I also hope I can just use my own certs signed by a real certificate authority (because it's cool)

[midnight orbit]

Knowledge about generating certificates and keys is truly at your fingertips, you have the QUIC specification widely available, you can draw all your conclusions from it.

[west elk]

there is also this

[sacred tulip]

I'm learning about trust on first use policy for QUIC but I don't know enough about this protocol

I'll read about it tomorrow probably

[midnight orbit]

There are already a lot of QUIC solutions available for Minecraft, check out the github, it will help you understand a bit how this mechanism works.

[steep lion]

at least one mod says it needs a CA signed certificate

which is reasonable

they don't want to host a public key manager just for a mod

[midnight orbit]

They're a great example of how things aren't so bad, and you don't need a master server. You generate a certificate, for example, using OpenSSL, and that's it 🙂

Yes, you need a domain, but that's the least of your problems.

[steep lion]

yes its not my problem in particular lol

[frozen gate]

What was this conversation about?

[vernal niche]

☕

[midnight orbit]

Just publish this server jar already

:p

[vernal niche]

Bro have you seen Slikey's pfp? Not gonna piss that guy off

[midnight orbit]

Ya, I sense a soft good heart beneath this shell, he won’t hurt you. I promise you

[abstract pike]

slikey looks like he enjoyes a cold cup of dark roast coffee with a plate of oatmeal in the morning

[scarlet spoke]

Photoshop

[west elk]

It's basic survival instinct to not take a chance on that ^^

[stone cedar]

needs photoshop to even fit in the pfp size? damn i get andre not wanting to piss him off even more then

[midnight orbit]

@vernal niche What about server perfomance? Have you tested it already? It really can handle only 10 players on 8gb ram?

[vernal niche]

This is what we currently recommend for SMP, with those players splitting up and exploring the world in small groups. We believe that we can adjust that recommendation with recent improvements but updated playtests are still pending.

[thorn tendon]

Hey I am a dev is there any kind of server.jar or something similar to it?

[midnight orbit]

Preordered servers will be available at game launch hour or faster this day? Just wanna look into files 😒

[west elk]

There will be when the game releases on the 13th. But we don't have access to the api until then

[thorn tendon]

ohh aight so it is based on java right?

[midnight orbit]

Isn't the API supposed to be out even later than the premiere? Or at least the documentation?

[west elk]

Correct. The server will be a .jar file like on Minecraft. It will natively support plugin loading and it will not be obfuscated so you can see how things are implemented.

[thorn tendon]

alright thanks for the help!

[west elk]

The server.jar provides the plugin api. This will be available when the game launches on the 13th. For external documentation, they said that they will make their gitbook public, but I don't think they talked about a timeline for that

[rustic pollen]

Yes, I would also like to start a server right at the launch on January 13 and would like to prepare for it, but there are no instructions or information available yet. I think we'll just have to be patient until then 🙁 I would love to get started right away to launch a good and successful server for the german Community.

[old moon]

I mean if you have vps/dedi lying around just use docker to manage and start your server no?

It takes 10 minutes to learn how you can start your own server without needing to use a host.

[old moon]

Yeah time to decompile and have a quick peek once we retrieve it

[sharp lake]

it's because it's not a concern 😭

[steep lion]

hm

[sharp lake]

you don't need a domain for cert

do you know what a cert is for?

[steep lion]

yeah but if you want a CA-signed one from let's encrypt (free) they only accept domains

[sharp lake]

you're thinking this is way more network related than it is
you just need any certificate at all for encryption

you don't need to verify for server impersonation, which is what CAs are for

[steep lion]

but you still do want a self signed certificate at least right

[sharp lake]

yes, you can use any certificate

[rustic pollen]

That's not the point 😂

[steep lion]

how do joining players receive the public key for the self signed cert

[old moon]

I can help you with all the knowledge that you need

[sharp lake]

by connecting and adding it to their local cache

[still mist]

24 GB Ram and 8 Threads is Enough For 100 Players?

[steep lion]

but to do any meaningful connection to the server they first have to go through TLS

[west elk]

Depends on use case

[old moon]

24GB is overkill. It’s more about cpu performance

[sharp lake]

if the public key changes, it'll set off red flags presumably
so the first connection is the important one

[old moon]

The more ram you have the longer it takes to go over each memory address.

[vague sequoia]

considering, that Hytale isnt in Java, it is much more optimized on both, client and server-sides. So ye, this should be enough

[stuck prism]

Can a ryzen 9 9950x with 128gb of ram 6400 mhz ddr5 run a server?

[west elk]

The server is Java

[still mist]

I heard that 1gb is needed for each 10 player if its vanilla and 8gb for the game server itself.

[old moon]

No but a toaster can

[still mist]

No you need 256 gb sadly

[sharp lake]

have you ever used ssh before? it's the same concept, where you have a key pair for encryption

[vague sequoia]

ah, ye, but client isnt anyways, so its rather like Bedrock server

[steep lion]

hm

[old moon]

Huh? Wdym?

[still mist]

Afaik Client is not java but server is in java so same thing like minecraft?

[stuck prism]

I was on the no fun bus and bought 2 sets of 2 32 gb sticks, let me tell you getting the timing to work on the memory controller was a fun day.

[old moon]

Maybe just steal ram from an ai datacenter

[vague sequoia]

you can write server core in any language, its not much of a deal. But the client is more important

[stuck prism]

at this point i took out 3 mortgages for 128 gb of ram. so I might have to

[still mist]

If the base core in java, the ram management would be same for any version.

[sharp lake]

the only difference between a key and a cert is that certs are explicitly limited with metadata that it makes its limitations clear and intuitive
you can have timed keys, but certificates will tell you the lifetime of your key

[still mist]

But hytale support multithreads right?

[vague sequoia]

On Bedrock the server is also php or java, bud client is C++ , and Bedrock servers are less resource intensive as Java are, cuz Java Edition is unoptimized crap ngl

[still mist]

Thats for sure

[old moon]

You can support it yourself, endless possibility

[vague sequoia]

so Hytale servers also supposed to be more performant

[steep lion]

well anyway it shouldn't hurt to prepare my own CA-signed certs for my server i guess

[still mist]

I am just waiting for someone to make escape from tarkov in hytale.

[old moon]

I think there already is a server actually

[stuck prism]

Cant wait to integrate Takaro Server Manager. This will be a really fun module project

[old moon]

I swear I saw one come by on reddit

[vague sequoia]

i think Bedrock will still outperform it, cause C++ is more low-level language that can be really heavily optimized, C# is rather more about simplicity per performance

[old moon]

Depends if you know which memory address to write to and which one to clean

[still mist]

For Windows or linux?

[old moon]

And what if you are naughty and forget todo your laundry, then your laundry basket overflows

[vague sequoia]

ye, I think microsoft picked C++ because they wanted to make it as lightweight as possible, so phones would run it seemlessly

[stuck prism]

shouldnt matter itll be a gameplug in that connects to rcon.

[sharp lake]

this is the example for reference, you just ask the user during the handshake, possibly reconnecting after it's been verified

$ [persephone ~] ssh shanetrs.remote.client
Last login: Sat Jan  3 20:02:28 2026 from 192.168.1.11
$ [lachesis ~] 
Connection to shanetrs.remote.client closed.
$ [persephone ~] ssh x.x.x.x
The authenticity of host 'x.x.x.x (x.x.x.x)' can't be established.
ED25519 key fingerprint is: SHA256:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no/[fingerprint])? 

[stuck prism]

i'll use that to buiild community modules.

[old moon]

Eh… in this day and age many phones can handle minecraft written in Java tbh

[vague sequoia]

Imagine using Windows Server.

[stuck prism]

do cool stuff like make pvp areas dynamic. someone lost something just type /give (so and so) water. and itll look up and give water

[steep lion]

i wonder if hytale client would tell user the cert status

[still mist]

Ryzen 9 5900x’s 24 threads multithread performance is better then 12 thread 9950x (if anyone using shared cpu I meant), then its better to use whole dedicated 5900x or shared 9950x?

[vague sequoia]

Imagine using Windows overall..
Windows is most terrible OS i can imagine.

[sharp lake]

yeah i wonder that too, or whether it'll be a security setting to automatically accept fresh certs
because you could manually verify the certificates yourself as well, like from your friend's dms

[steep lion]

its the same thing as browsers showing the certificate being "bad" right

[still mist]

I know many people who use windows to run server, just because they dont know how to use linux

[old moon]

Wow I replied to the wrong message because my fingers are too big for my iPhone 15

[stuck prism]

IDK but i have hit 6.2 ghz, had several cpus and i am running 7 days, enshrouded, astroneer, palworld, and soon Hytale. I barely hit 20%

[still mist]

Pro max is the only solution

[vague sequoia]

ye, but when I played minecraft pocket edition, it barely runned ngl. Nowdays phones are also powerful enough

[sharp lake]

they could do it like that, but i'd be surprised
it'd probably just be "trusted/untrusted" and it'd be based on whether you've already marked the cert as okay

[old moon]

I only have the pro ;-; I don’t want to carry extra weight in my pocket

[vague sequoia]

so its not about running, but rather about performance

[steep lion]

i need that 🔒 icon in my hytale server! 🤯

[vague sequoia]

Shame on em'!

[still mist]

I have pro max but I believe pro is more convenient for me.

[old moon]

I mean it’s not as bad as you think it is.

[still mist]

Running all at the same time?

[steep lion]

even if the hytale client never informs players about it if you do have a domain you should probably go for a CA-signed certs

its better than trusting an arbitrary self signed cert

[vague sequoia]

i used windows server A LOT. It is terrible, like 1/4 of resources is eaten by useless UI that is also borked asf

[stuck prism]

ya and the 7 days server sees 110+ log ins a day. the others 5-25 ppl

[still mist]

In that case if its 5900x, it will be on 80% atleast

[vague sequoia]

due to marginal organization of Windows NT, you cant really disable UI, it is just written in the core and kernel partialy

[sharp lake]

not really!

[vague sequoia]

Reason why you cant get same seemless smoothness on windows as on Linux, since Linux has a good modularity

[stuck prism]

idk a lot about them but when i went from 7950x to 9950x those single core games ran way better.

[old moon]

Yes it does take up like 2GB of memory just to run it but it’s just never really been a huge focus for Microsoft to invest in their server technologies

[still mist]

Looking for a good dedicated pc host now in singapore server, whatever I got is for eupore or usa.

[old moon]

So props to them for ever trying

[vague sequoia]

And I'm not even talking about custom kernels ,that can be debloated to the point where only needed hardware is supported, making everthing even more lightweight and performant.
I think Linux is The kernel

[old moon]

Just go for ovh in your region. You can get a good deal normally on a fixed term contract

[still mist]

I had ovh server, and it has the worst ddos protection

But on Vibe Games, their ddos is so good but they are so pricy. I need more ram atm, so I dont want to go with vibe games.

[vague sequoia]

Azure use linux on their servers, lmao.

[old moon]

Exactly my point…

Not Microsoft’s focus, still nice that they tried and it worked for a couple of years

[vague sequoia]

Actually, it is more performant to install some kinda ubuntu server, and install some DE on it.

[old moon]

I have never had issues with OVH but everyone has their own expedience I guess

[stone cedar]

can i just add that with what we got told the server quic implementation is based on.... i didnt use any certs and got the connection to work

[left thistle]

de on server? lol

[vague sequoia]

microslop can't do good products anymore.

[stone cedar]

so i somehow doubt the cert stuff is necessary or at least the way its implemented automatically takes care of it

[vague sequoia]

I mean, if you're so afraid of terminal, and you need UI for your server. No way id install KDE on my server just so it takes up my 1,4 gb of ram for fun

[austere girder]

Use OVH and put it behind either TCPShield or Cloudflare Spectrum, will usually do the trick

[old moon]

Azure is such a joke tbh, not that atlasian is any better lol

[old moon]

Literally… and cloudflare has an okay free tier

[left thistle]

i mean if you afraid of terminal whats the point of installing server os in the first place, just host it on default install of debian etc

[vague sequoia]

I love how microsoft is raging when they're called microslop

[stuck prism]

anyone know a guy that knows a guy that could get the devs to sell me 20 copies to gift?

[austere girder]

Not even remotely close to the correct chat channel my guy

And gifting isn't possible yet

[stuck prism]

i need someone to plug me in?

lol

[old moon]

I normally install pterodactyl on a dedi and all good to go…

Trust me Pelican is not in a good state right now

[left thistle]

i use tmux and systemd :)

[still mist]

I was thinking to give pelican this time, so stay with pterodactyl?

[austere girder]

I built my own server orchestration tool, but I used to use Pterodactyl and Multicraft, def recommend ptero

[old moon]

Yes I kept getting bad queries with mariadb for no reason and the folder permissions kept changing. I was too lazy figure out what was happening in the source code.

[vague sequoia]

I use runit on my server

[old moon]

Ptero lays eggs, multicraft only grinds for diamonds

[vague sequoia]

im trying to get the maximum from my bare iron

[austere girder]

You can in-fact run any jar on Multicraft, but you have to know what you're doing. But yes, I agree, use Ptero over Multi

[vague sequoia]

convinience is for soyboy wojak people who value their time. I -- do not

[still mist]

Gonna try then

[old moon]

Yes but what about anything else other than Java ;-;

[vague sequoia]

Imagine, 1 week of tinkering , just to save 70 mb of ram

[austere girder]

Build a java wrapper than calls something else at the runtime 😉 so... so inefficient

[still mist]

Right now I am just confused about to getting a dedicated 24 thread 5900x vps or shared threads but 12 core 9950x vps.

[austere girder]

Always dedicated

[summer otter]

I think the full 5900x will have better performance though, especially due to each world having a seperate thread. And then you can optmize it further down the road. + shared hosters have the issue of overselling shared resources. So in reality it may actually be 6 to 8 threads you realistically have access to in full multi thread performance

[rose atlas]

Are we talking about hosting specs?

[old moon]

Shared threads is a big no no for hytale

[vague sequoia]

What project are yall running rn?

[old moon]

Elaborate?

[still mist]

I alo figure it out that dedicated 5900x multi thread performance better then 12 thread shared 9950x.
So dedicated it is

[stone cedar]

we already got told what reference implementation they used and its all in netty. i tried a client/server implementation as per the same reference and never needed a certificate anywhere. it worked locally and over the net to my server.

[vague sequoia]

wdym?

[steep lion]

hm is that even valid??

[old moon]

What do you mean by project?

[stone cedar]

idk but it works

their ref implementation they used

[stuck prism]

I have connected the Takaro Server Manager to several games. Plan on working on it on day 1.

[stone cedar]

and since caddy was also happy to proxy the l4 traffic as a quic stream it seems to be fine

[stuck prism]

create teleporting, visiting, item management.

location tracking, location based buffs, stored variables

[stone cedar]

i dont think i can link a zip of my quick test code here so you can compile jars yourself to test it

[steep lion]

 QuicSslContext context = QuicSslContextBuilder.forServer(
                selfSignedCertificate.privateKey(), null, selfSignedCertificate.certificate())
                .applicationProtocols("http/0.9").build();

wait it does use self signed certificates

[stone cedar]

oh i forgot right

yeah so its all taken care of then magically by the server

[steep lion]

well that raises the question... can I use my cool CA-signed certificates

[stone cedar]

idk why youd need to

[steep lion]

well someone can verify the integrity of my server if they want to

thats the whole reason

[stuck prism]

ppl do that?

[stone cedar]

since i completely forgot that this line even exists and i dont remember ever checking what these contain by default id assume theyd contain some way to verify integrity none the less

[steep lion]

you dont really verify anything for self signed certificates

[vague sequoia]

I mean in Hytale

[steep lion]

you trust them blindly and proceed with the connection

[stone cedar]

and you do the same with ca certs

if youd want to verify any cert youd really just need to check the fingerprint of the cert presented which is a valid way to check for selfsigned and ca signed certs

[summer otter]

if you have a domain name you can use certbot from letsencrypt

[steep lion]

yes sure, but does hytale server offer a way to provide custom cert files

or it just always uses self signed certs

[stone cedar]

i dont even know if they store the self signed cert and reuse it or if they just gen a new one each boot

[stuck prism]

It will do everything someone can dream in Hytale.
Wanna make a PvP zone, possible, someone leveled to level 5 and wanna announce it? already made the code.
Wanna create an event for the community to fight a boss? they type /bossfight and boom they are there fighting along friends.
Newbs join and you wanna help them? Type /visit newb
I already coded all of this, once rcon is connected, usually a half a day, I'll be steam rolling.
Then on to building a challenging experience.

[stone cedar]

but yeah im not worried at all atm. at worst i have to get the fingerprint and display it dynamically on a webpage for people who want to verify integrity to have it OR i can just statically do it if it stores the cert

[steep lion]

tbh if the server is going source available i can just swap the QuicSslContext implementation i guess

all it does is that it shows my cool cert™ instead of a self signed one anyone can make, its pointless but i mean i have one so why not put it there

[summer otter]

I don't know and don't think but we have to wait to see

[karmic bane]

you can even do it before the source availability, just have to find the spot in the code

[stone cedar]

but yeah my final thoughts are i dont think anyone needs to even worry about getting a ca signed cert nor does it improve security

[vague sequoia]

Ye, that looks more promising than the ,,Hyclash" project with no idea, just yapping.

[stone cedar]

(i might even argue it decreases security if it ever leaks)

[vague sequoia]

Just curious if u have any discord server or website for this project, if yes id ask for invitation / link in DM

[stuck prism]

Takaro discord is a good place to start, maybe dm and i can send inv link? and my github has all game connectors with source code.
My gaming discord has a lot of the stuff it does that people ask about.
Created Iron Man a week ago.
Had a scaling death count and would reset you if you died once before fifty, twice before a hundred.

got an Iron Man only weapon if completed

[old moon]

Are we talking about OSRS now?

[steep lion]

[kabanfriends@artes quic_cs]$ uv run client.py
Connecting to server...Connected
Message: HELLO!!
Sending to server...done

yay!! my reverse proxy seems to be working

[1e146e102caa1709] Error: 298, reason: hostname 'XXX.XX.XX.134' doesn't match either of DNSPattern(pattern=b'*.MYDOMAIN'), DNSPattern(pattern=b'MYDOMAIN'), frame_type: 6

also refuses to connect directly using ip, as intended

[summer otter]

you are trying to do something with mail from what I see

what exactly is your goal

owh I see it wrong,

[steep lion]

its just a quic server/client with a reverse proxy in between

[summer otter]

I read MYDOMAIN as MXDomain

stupid me

[steep lion]

I need a proxy because even though my friend offers a machine with a good hardware their ISP doesn't allow direct port forwarding

glad i got this part figured out before the release

[summer otter]

there are several options, vpn (connect them to a vps that you also connect to and then host the server that way

another option is to have them connect a connection to a srver that speaks udp quic on said port and forward those requests either by iptables or some other app to hytale port

[steep lion]

now it seems like rust-rpxy-l4 can set a different target specifically for QUIC packets, but no idea how that works

[summer otter]

with a loopback attached to it

basically why a vpn works is you extent the LAN to the vpn LAN. So anyone connected to the same vpn subnet can connect to your server then, enable udp though not only tcp vpn. This is why hamachi worked in the past for minecraft

[steep lion]

hm, for some reason i never associated VPN and hamachi but it makes total sense (Ive never used hamachi)

[summer otter]

and things like the iptables setup would be like rerouting the requests to the open established request of the dedicated server but that server then needs to relay with a loopback said request to the hytale server as if it was always send to that address

I can write a small iptables script for you, or you can install something like wireguard on a vps

and try it that way

[sterile venture]

you could also try using cloudflare tunnels / warp but tbh that hasnt worked well for me with UDP servers so I made my own solution that im currently testing

at least for bedrock servers, maybe hytale is less stupid and allows you xD

[steep lion]

I'm pretty satisifed with what rust-rpxy-l4 can (supposedly) do, a full QUIC support and SNI based routing for it

For some the log says that the "quic" protocol type is invalid so I can't get quic specific features to work 🤷‍♂️

[steady relic]

Is it known if there will be options for creating independent structures made of blocks? Ones that can be translated, scaled, and rotated separately from the world's grid? For example, to turn player creations into miniature scale or into vehicles. Something like 00:54 in the trailer, but that might just be using a premade asset

[sharp lake]

You can hot-reload assets, so if you're able to generate the model on the fly, you'll be able to pull that off

[steady relic]

Ooh that's exciting

[vague sequoia]

i didnt quite understand u.
Do you have some good concept and ready-to-implement code, or what?

[steep lion]

i used dokploy for the first time ever for managing my services and im loving it

[steep lion]

i found a cool minecraft mod that lets me host a server using QUIC protocol, which makes a really nice networking test environment for preparation for hytale
this will now be my docker compose script, just that the server itself would be swapped with the hytale one when it releases: pastes[.]dev/AUvEoHXOvv

the mod uses netty's QUIC implementation so it should be very close to what Hytale would do

[storm junco]

are theere any public resources yet that can be used to start the development of server plugins right now before the launch?

[steep lion]

nothing really, aside from looking at the screenshots of a partial plugin API usage

search BlockSpawner in this discord

[storm junco]

alr thanks, i hope we will get much more on launch. other than digging through the game itself i suppose

[west elk]

yeah we will get the unobfuscated server and multiple 3rd-party plugins as reference

[sharp lake]

also first-party plugins

[west elk]

yep, in the server ^^

[storm junco]

I'm just thinking of what would be worth doing at launch; some plugins are going to be made in a day by 100 different people xd. i was thinking of a system that handles like economy stuff and claiming, kinda like towny if you guys have used or heard of that plugin in mc. but idk if it would be that interesting in hytale.

[summer otter]

many people will also make their own claiming system. I think you can better focus on core gameplay experiences important to you audience

[fringe ore]

I was thinking about this as well, but alot are thinking about doing claim and factions already.

Im doing something else entirely that will be peak in like 6 months+ gonna take me a while to do.

But a towny would be amazing if you did

[fringe ore]

Yeah some core gameplay would seem to be a import piece to everything

[midnight orbit]

Factions like plugin is first what I’m going to do, I hope plugins will allow to interact with UI

Hytale seems to be perfect game for Guilds/Survival mode

[fringe ore]

Nice to hear someone is already doing this. Means I dont have too lol, factions is a huge demand already from those I have talked too

[storm junco]

i was thinking of an core plugin like say essentuials etc, but then i was also thinking that hytale will prob have good native commands for most things?

[fringe ore]

Idk thats a very good question lol

[midnight orbit]

I think we don’t need to worry about essentials, auth systems and for sure WorldEdit like plugin. But worldguard will be important at first

[storm junco]

One thing i will be focusing on with my plugins is the ease of use for everyone. i already do this in MC; I generally make guis for everything rather than raw commands, as i find it easier to click in a GUI rather than remembering every single command. and the ui system hytale is going to use, from what I read, is going to be really good, as i can basically code the ui myself however i want it to, like in code, rather than having to use custom textures for everything

[storm junco]

exactly

[midnight orbit]

I was developing for like 10 years plugins for faction servers so ;p High priority

[storm junco]

although i was thinking of starting to make this stuff as a side hustle, realistically, how many would just release the same plugin as you for free?

[midnight orbit]

Idk fr, I just wanna launch Factions server asap in Hytale to get user feedback

But I think I will make some things open source, but at this moment we need „platform” for publishing plugins

[ashen sparrow]

Hello, what will be the programming language for Hytale Java?

[midnight orbit]

Yep

[storm junco]

BBB is prob a good start?

curseforge is gonna do mods, but idk about plugins

[ashen sparrow]

Do you think it will be harder than on MC or easier? I've just started making MC plugins, so I want to know.

[midnight orbit]

What is BBB xD My brain is lagged right now

[fair granite]

I feel like something for plugin/server creators should release before early access allowing creators to prepare for early access.

[storm junco]

builtbybit

[midnight orbit]

Someone here said that it’s easier, one guy here has access to api before everyone, he said it’s easier than in mc ofc „for him „

[fringe ore]

Probably harder at first until we understand how all things work together and docs

[fringe ore]

Thats what I was told, ECS is peak

[storm junco]

i think i saw someone on twitter making an site for plugins and perhaps servers, not entirely sure on the server part though, cant remember what it was named though

[ashen sparrow]

Okay, let's hope so. That would make it easier for Java beginners to get started.

[west elk]

There will be a server hosting guide, but that's about it. If they release api documentation before the api, that would invite a bunch of technical questions that they don't have the bandwith to deal with since they need to prepare for launch

[fair granite]

That makes sense. But they should still spoil us with something to prepare. I mean there is nothing...

[storm junco]

that would be nice indeed

[midnight orbit]

@storm junco Where are you from if I can know ;d

[fringe ore]

Im sure within a week there will be a decent amount of docs built up

[storm junco]

Sweden 🙂

[limber mica]

@storm junco can you dm me ?

[storm junco]

My DMs are open 🙂

[midnight orbit]

Perhaps there are some people here who would like to sit down in a small group and work on the API together after the server files are released? Just for fun, to share their solutions and observations.

[frozen gate]

Just go to #discussion 3 hours or so after release and there will be plenty

[fringe ore]

Agreed lol

Probably alot of convo here as well

[near raptor]

Since mods and plugins are kind of the same in Hytale, I'd expect that Curseforge will be the platform for both.

But undoubtedly more platforms will pop up, like Modrinth, that host Hytale stuff.

[upbeat storm]

In Hytale a mod is more like am umbrella that contains a lot of stuff (art assets, data assets, plugins)

[near raptor]

A "plugin" in more classical sense (when compared to Minecraft) is more like a Hytale mod without any models/textures/sounds ("assets").

[green plank]

Does anyone know how to get the UUID of a game profile by username? (not the Account ID, the game profile id, of which there may be several on the account).

E.g. I want to implement authorization on the project site using an existing player username. Player can change their username once a month, which means that I need to link them to a UUID (logging in with a UUID is definitely not an option, that's weird :D)

Maybe the developers mentioned it (public API etc) in this channel, but I couldn't find it 😄

[west elk]

They said Oauth is something they'd like to look into in the future, but nothing concise yet

In the mean time, the best way to do authentication is to make the user log in to a server and get a code they use in your app

[still mist]

Hytale got DRM? So It cant get free to players like minecraft?