server-plugins-read-only

[steep nova]

Yaha baba

So cute???

[raven sparrow]

community, what java version should I use? and what vendor do you recomend me?

I will use IntelliJ, 25 Eclipse Temruin is optimal?

[west elk]

That's what I will use 👍

[raven sparrow]

Thans bro! ❤️

[karmic bane]

You could also do NeoVim and GraalVM teehee

[strange tapir]

We use Adoptium Temurin 25.0.1+8-LTS and plan to ship with that, but the server should run fine on basically any recent version of a JVM

[tidal mauve]

Adoptium is now Eclipse

or was it the other way around

either case they are one now🤝

[sharp lake]

It is quite literally RPG-style combat 🙈
What do you mean "not near close to that" lol

[silver cloak]

I am refering close to mc pvp

[sharp lake]

You were responding to this though

You called 1.9 style combat where you have to time your strikes slow and boring compared to 1.8 spam clicking 💀

[silver bronze]

Are you planning to ship something alike to a default/template docker image with recommended setup for a server, or just a server jar?

[karmic bane]

I imagine I'd need to rework the entire mod loading capacity if I wanna use GraalVM tho

But it would fit so perfectly in an overkill flatcar + k8s deployment

On a reasonable equipped server that easily covers 250+ players depending on the entire server markup

[plain cave]

Si quelq'un veut embarquer dans projet avec moi je peut dev à la sortie hytale j'ai 29 ans 🙂

[tidal mauve]

you can probably just throw server jar at java container and it will work

[summer otter]

I am interested in knowing if the server jar will be obfuscated or not. I hope it isn't but I would get if it is.

[tidal mauve]

server jar is confirmed to be unobfuscated

source available at a later date due to legal reasons

[summer otter]

I agree, and even creating your own container wouldn't be to hard, someone would probably do it somehow if it didn't work immediately which would surprise me by a lot

[fervent bronze]

i heard that hytale will become c++ after release, right?

is it like.. true?

[lament steeple]

where did you hear that?

[fervent bronze]

idk

some videos out there, but is it true that the client will be c#

[lament steeple]

oh

[fervent bronze]

ok, that probably isn't true

[lament steeple]

they are probably talking about the riot stuff

[fervent bronze]

oh

[lament steeple]

after riot bought hytale they srtarted to make a new engine in cpp

[fervent bronze]

ohhhh

makes sense, alright then

[karmic bane]

Hytale won't go C++ after Release, atleast there are no plans for this. And yes, the client is C#

[steep nova]

Yoo

[peak fjord]

Are you a dev ?
What kind of languages do you know ?

[steep nova]

Hi baby

Babu

I mean

[main cliff]

DaBubu

[peak fjord]

Im bubu

[steep nova]

Ooooooo

I am new guys

You know?????

[bleak frost]

What kind of plugins / code am I able to make server plugins with that will work with hytale? Like mc uses bukkit or spigot?

[west elk]

Spigot is a good way to think about it, but we will have even more flexibility and freedoms

Adding custom blocks, entities, animations, UIs, keybinds, etc

[gleaming berry]

Hey, is there any blogpost about plugins or an explanation how it will generally work etc?

[karmic bane]

Theres a modding blogpost

[gleaming berry]

Thanks!

[hexed kernel]

The modding blogpost gives a decent overview but I'd say we're still waiting for more concrete information

[gleaming berry]

Yeah just read it, we will have to wait for further posts or 13th january

[plain cave]

Je developpe déjà sur minecraft depuis des années en java et je connait aussi le c# mais moins que java je me debrouille une fois tu connait la base par la suite le reste suis

[peak fjord]

I have a plan on this game, if you want to add me on discord to keep in contact !

[vernal niche]

[frank maple]

are the server files gonna release when the game releases I assume?

I have my own set of servers and I am eager to get my hands on server files to host it on day 1, I would love to also see if I can make my own plugins and mods asap lmao

[stray pasture]

We could only assume

What would Hytale be if we can't host and make for servers day one anyway. 😄 - That would seriously be a flop on their end. (Considering it is pretty much all server based)

[frank maple]

big time

[astral owl]

Anyone planning on creating / selling plugins should dm me

[karmic bane]

[karmic bane]

Yes

[rich solar]

y

[karmic bane]

Btw I am currently trying out Talos Linux to spin up a k8s cluster and I'm gonna try running a GraalVM native image on there. You think thats gonna be overkill for Hytale? lmao

[vernal niche]

I have never touched GraalVM but my home assistant is running on a k8s cluster so I don't understand what you mean by 'overkill'

[versed atlas]

ain't doing all that

[karmic bane]

But did you make the cluster only for the home assistant and it only serves that or did you happen to have the cluster already for stuff like that? Ig its a difference

[versed atlas]

atm my homelab is using some unholy combo of bare metal and docker

[vernal niche]

I have it also for other, similarly unimpressive services

[versed atlas]

the rasberry pi once served over 1 million requests in a day

poor thing

[karmic bane]

That means you have a deployment layer even if those services are unrelated, ig that's different from a cluster (especially single-node) for a single small purpose that a docker compose file could also satisfy lmao

I mean nothing else would run ln the server in the end ig, well actually now that I think about it... yea im gonna do k8s

[versed atlas]

any evidence hytale server would benefit from a cluster? well i guess if you're doing minigame type stuff

[karmic bane]

Not for performance reasons, just deployment, reproducability and fun reasons. And I guess actual server networks would benefit massively from the scaling, ingress and all that

[versed atlas]

would be kinda cool if the server could support cluters in a massively multiplayer scenario. Like if a lot of players were relegated to a certain number of loaded chunks and then there was a gap of unloaded chunks between that group and another group, chunks could be on different servers

flaws though, like if the players run at each other and it converges than what server becomes the leader and can it be done smoothly

[karmic bane]

cool idea but that would probably need a very modified server jar to distribute everything like that

[versed atlas]

well yeah i don't think this would happen, would require this consideration from the start of server development

[loud raft]

We talked about it yesterday but I wonder if something like FiveMs onesync solution could be used for that

[stray pasture]

Ahhh, My explanation was blocked.... The moderation is VERY stingy...

[versed atlas]

no swear words

[karmic bane]

no evil words! especially the p-word

[stray pasture]

There were non, but I could see how master and <Add your worker word here> would be blocked... - Look up "Multipaper" or "Mammoth" they are Minecraft implementations of this

[versed atlas]

omg the s word thats hilarious

[stray pasture]

Yep! Hey! Its official terminology!!!!

[versed atlas]

i mean the kernel banned it in 2020 i think?

still used a lot tho

[stray pasture]

Oh. Well... <add your expletive>

[versed atlas]

at work we've started using primary/secondary or host/worker. Though we still use master half the time for the main branch of git

[near raptor]

leader/follower is what Bluetooth switched to right

[stray pasture]

Oh, well I am just bad influence. 😄

[sharp lake]

i've always used "workers" or "children" depending on the context

[stray pasture]

Yeah it looks like there has been a big push to change it. 😛 Who knew! 😄

[silver bronze]

Hmmm they're the same thing to you?

[sharp lake]

idc about the politics at all, it's just that workers is a more accurate term with how i plan everything out
tasks can hang and last longer than expected, just like workers do

[summer loom]

For speed controllers I've always just seen leader/follower

[sharp lake]

it depends on the context, a lot of times your workers are literally child processes
but it mostly depends on what the worker is doing for whether i consider it a child

[silver bronze]

If it's sent to the mines without getting paid, it's a child 😄

[stray pasture]

My gawd!

[sharp lake]

LMFAO we pay them in CPU-cycles

if they gather enough of those, they can go home!!

[stray pasture]

My jenkins forces my azure build machine to work... - Azure has one option, death...

Actually two! - Just refused to accept the command! Happens quite often. Maybe he is just quiet quitting

[sharp lake]

now you are definitely not using workers, i can see why you use the other terminology LMFAO

[stray pasture]

Hahahaha! - I am very used to it in the network topology. Hub and Spoke (master and .....)

Worker threads work well! Main and Worker etc!

[sharp lake]

Oh yknow what, I definitely don't use 'worker' in network toplogy lol

[karmic bane]

Work is bad (money is good tho)

[stray pasture]

Boss and employee architecture?

^ I will use this one now. 😄

[karmic bane]

idk man xD

[stray pasture]

I am sure we can find many more! - But I do find the og conversation a cool idea. Distributed servers working together to provide a single shard world - All modifications are reflected to all <worker servers>

Edit: Just doesn't have that "Umph" to it...

Edit 2: I tried! 😂

[sharp lake]

Lmfao are we still talking about Hytale

[stray pasture]

Yeah!

would be kinda cool if the server could support cluters in a massively multiplayer scenario. Like if a lot of players were relegated to a certain number of loaded chunks and then there was a gap of unloaded chunks between that group and another group, chunks could be on different servers

• Ping for toast

[sharp lake]

Yeah okay, I was thinking about that sort of thing a while ago too

[stray pasture]

This is totally possible! - But not easy! Something I want to do someday too! 😄

WELLLL!!

[sharp lake]

I assume transfer packets won't be seamless
But if there's a way to determine whether all assets are the same and do some trickery to reconnect without reloading the entire world or assets, you could possibly get away with just region-based transfers

[stray pasture]

If you just add redis it may be more feasible than origionally thought - That redis server just needs to modify the master and then the master needs to relay that back through redis to all connected.

Scale this in ratios and add GrandPapi servers

[sharp lake]

If you can put "ghosts" that just imitate real players, you could just simply distribute them between servers and mirror them to all the other servers when necessary

That depends on the gamemode obviously, but it could work for some things

[stray pasture]

SMP - Could feasibly horizontally scale this way. This is also Star Citizens networking topology... Just make it specially aware and it would literally be the same.

[sharp lake]

Idk about SMP, because that would invoke world changes which would complicate things
But specifically static MMO experiences, it could work nicely

[sharp lake]

This kind of thing would be better for an SMP

[stray pasture]

Redis can translate anything needed without the extra processing. - So in theory all "worker" nodes processes 50 players each at full performance and all changes are just reflected on a single node (Not processing just changing for all other servers to gain, atomic changes)

[sharp lake]

Oh I think I understand

I definitely understand, you're right

[stray pasture]

Yeah much like a card game. Report the immutable game state, and then grab said game state everytime it is changed. (It maybe too slow though...)

[tidal mauve]

love redis

[sharp lake]

This will be exciting to toy with once the server is released

[loud raft]

are you guys going to attempt that? sounds intriguing

[tidal mauve]

though i use it just as a key:value database

[loud raft]

do you use the forked one or just redis?

[stray pasture]

I don't see why not. 😄

But I can see redis being plenty fast enough! And if done you can have a MEGA SMP with 1k+ servers at 50 Pop each playing at full speed.

[tidal mauve]

i started using it with the older license

[loud raft]

the forked one is faster no?

[tidal mauve]

ill move next time i rewrite my project

[sharp lake]

I think it's definitely worth attempting to make it so we can fit hundreds of people into a single world
I think earlier solutions are going to be region based though, so each area would have a maximum population or else lag

[tidal mauve]

im not at the scale where anyone benefits from me using slightly faster redis yet

[stray pasture]

Another way would be to lock step marshal. Keep every server on the same tick and each update on each server is reflected, this is likely to be a problem and likely must be paired with some intermediary.

[tidal mauve]

i wanna see redis as a world data provider

maybe one chunk one entry

[sharp lake]

We'll be able to write our own providers, so that should be doable
They made everything an interface lmfao

[stray pasture]

World Game state, Position for players, entities for drop loot (maybe keep enttites out) - You would need a arbitrator to work out the race conditions on who picked what up.

[tidal mauve]

smth like chunk:\x:y - blob

[stray pasture]

So World, Positional, Stats of entity, but not dropped entity. 😄

[sharp lake]

chunk:x:y - blob

[tidal mauve]

mobile discord keeps messing up the \❌

[sharp lake]

ah

[tidal mauve]

if assume thats already part of the game, no?

[sharp lake]

Not if you're syncing across multiple servers

[tidal mauve]

what i mean is replacing at the level whete its written to file/read from file

ah i missed the rest of the conversation mb, i meant just for a single server

[sharp lake]

Yeah, we're just thinking about different ways to handle a massive number of players

[stray pasture]

This would be a good use a of a minigame - 4D Bed wars - Why is my bed breaking!! 😄

[tidal mauve]

lmao yes

[sharp lake]

Lol only syncing the world and nothing else

[tidal mauve]

and a tool to hop instances

[sharp lake]

True, just cycle rapidly between them via right-click and defend yourself that way

[stray pasture]

You are in a bed wars game of 500 players, 100 each team. Your in your own dimension of so many players, so each must fight each other, maybe you have dimentional items that let you see accross, and place blocks that affect all

[tidal mauve]

nah thats too op, some cooldown

[sharp lake]

It's randomized what instance your opponent is on, so I think the gameplay would be smoother if you could roll the dice at whatever speed you can click
Then it's like the Minecraft 1.8.9 combat

[stray pasture]

Helmet of dimentionality where you are now able to see and affect all players in all dimentions.

[tidal mauve]

chat are wr about to cook

[loud raft]

duping bugs on survival servers too lol

[stray pasture]

Not if atomic - But if atomic, may provide to slow. This would be a good experiment and use of a lesser used architecture

[summer loom]

Don't worry its just 1 of the infinite 4D hyperplanes of your 4-dimensional bed being broken

[sharp lake]

If you do it by regions then you don't really need to worry about dupes right?

[stray pasture]

So you have many beds!

[stray pasture]

Either way, you need to worry about who picks up what and if they were correct - Reason why single server is best with "Authority"

[sharp lake]

You can only pickup things that are close by
If everyone close to one another are on the same server, that's not a concern

[stray pasture]

If you and I run to pickup an ite and our servers both processes the pickup - Who is really the correct, because both of our servers said each of us was correct, but that isn't correct

[summer otter]

What you can do is an architecture where you process things like a chain in parallel. So when you join let's say server A, you actually go through a b and c as well, which all provide other features and together merge into the full server.

An example:
server a group has the state of the world and talks only to other server a groups and external requests by API with auth of course.
server b group a layer up, handles entities, which now get to look 1 to n entity chunks ahead. Entity chunks are just chunk like objects centered around the entity and determine what is visible to them. This can either be precomputed and then updated dynamically or be computed on the fly which I would recommend a bit less. But this allows entity logic to take place on a separate server and even make multi entity behaviours if they have overlapping areas. Then you can still add stuff like world cachhing for areas which are used more often and otherwise retrieve the data from layer a. You can expand those layers to player layer, ticking blocks and other stuff. Or even split whole sections of altogether, so you can have a1 and a2 composing a 2 layer a system.

I'm not saying this is a must have or will solve everything but I experimented a bit with this in minecraft although not finished it did work to some extent. So a multi layered architecture may actually be worth exploring

[sharp lake]

We'd be on the same server lol, because we're in the same location

[stray pasture]

Now we get into Star Citizen and specially aware servers. Possible but heavily being researched.

[stray pasture]

Only issue is all 1k players would have to be attached to a, b, and c since they deliver those services.

[summer otter]

a b and c can be scaled in this way

so you can have multiple a nodes, b nodes and c nodes etc, as long as they communicate with eachother to sync stuff. But it's true it's hard to manage

[stray pasture]

True. You can horizontally scale. I haven't thought of a mircoservice architecture this way for a game yet.

[stray pasture]

This maybe where we get to that lockstep Marshall's states where all "n servers" are in exact sync and distribute their knowledge each time. So your talking to one super server? Hmmm still a limitation but maybe there would be a way around it?

[summer otter]

that's completely true, and that is what I'm currently researching actually in my spare time. How can those micro servers contain all states without needing all states present i reality. It may sound like a stupid question cause ofcourse this is not possible, but what if we assume otherwise. And try to think of a way where it is possible

so that's where I said we can split of certain types of the server, for example types that are use more or less. And some server can act as an intermediator as a caching state

[sharp lake]

doesn't this work on the assumption that specific tasks are the primary cause of lag? are we actually sure this is the case

[summer otter]

but this is still being researched by me in how far this would even work theoretically

[summer otter]

I'm not talking about only lag but also about using the full performance of a sevrer. Currently mc servers run on gaming hardware but what if it could use a full epyc cpu

then the epyc cpu would win most likely, but it all works on assumptions

[loud raft]

192 core beasts

[stray pasture]

All 198 cores with stupid amounts of threads!!!

[summer loom]

I mean aren't we pretty sure that specific tasks will be the cause of lag? Loading/generating chunks for one?

[gray pine]

server hosting in release ?

[loud raft]

yes the jar will be released

[summer otter]

So no this system isn't perfect but it's worth exploring in my opinion as it may give servers a cheaper way in the long run to run their services without the need of cutting edge cpus even older epyc gens can compete in such a case, or you can go as far with saying we buy multiple smaller tiered servers

[stray pasture]

Eve Online uses stackless python and each thing in the game gets is own thread. Your ship and you are two different entities each with its own thread

Though they run at 1hz and likely cant go higher. But they have a stupid amount of simulation they do so maybe that is why

[summer loom]

Yes and some server providers have access rn to set stuff up

[summer otter]

it's just one of the use cases, but you're right it started with the lag assumption

[sharp lake]

If you split everything by task, then certain layers are going to be way more utilized
I suppose if each layer is scaled differently, then you can just account for the wasted resources that way though

[summer loom]

Oh I see what you mean

[stray pasture]

If you give each player its own simulated task? All game systems exist but only for that players simulation? This may not work at all for inter task communication at scale or speed

Look at us. Talking about fun network and scaled architecture.

Can't wait to see what this bill comes to. Who's paying the 2 million in Azure/AWS costs? 😄

[summer otter]

I love this discussion though, and you're completely right Nicolas as this becomes a syncing issue then. But I do believe we can work from certain assumptions our way up the ladder and solve them all in the end.

[summer otter]

Legendary comment

[summer loom]

This is why I don't host servers, I just make plugins/tools :>

This is also why I can't make any money though

[stray pasture]

Dont worry I pulled that number for Eve which is estimated that is how much the pay annually.

[sharp lake]

You have separate pools of servers simulating each part of the game-tick, and you send the results to each server, which forwards them to the players
This assumes that the networking isn't the constraint though, and it actually is the game logic

[summer loom]

You mean Spreadsheet Simulator?

[stray pasture]

Essentially of you had a server processing so many players that can scale infinitely given your mideators can scale with proper speed.

[stray pasture]

This puts it right back to a single server not being able to process ticks fast enough. Which is why skipping the sim and injecting the game state would be faster

Possible? Idk. 😛

[summer otter]

this is a very valid question, and you're right except if they are in the same data center but okay that's not always realistic. So, you can have local copies running (with player pools runing on those) and then sync important tasks in bulk, or when servers seem to cross you sync more frequently. Yes it will be somewhat slower and delayed but it's the best we can do for now. This is something that we can still research as to how to fix such an limiation

[stray pasture]

Now this is the convos I expect this chat to have from now on! 😁

[sharp lake]

girl this topic is difficult as fck

[loud raft]

type of topic you need a phd for lol

[stray pasture]

Why do you think its uncommon? And Ashes of Creation and Star citizen have yet to release?

[tidal mauve]

Simon

[sharp lake]

It'll probably get a lot more simple when you're not actually dealing with hypotheticals, and can measure what needs to be delegated
And then you can brainstorm how to delegate those things to your compute

[stray pasture]

Yeah, but ghen likely tells us how wrong we are.:D or its physically impossible

I dont need my dreams shattered just yet.

[sharp lake]

Maybe it'll end up being even better than expected lmfao
Like if we don't have to worry about the server's networking at all, because it can handle 2000 players or something, with just the actual computations slowing it down
Then that'd make it pretty easy for literally every single server except the biggest ones who can just have multiple servers by language anyway

[stray pasture]

!Shelly is typing... Edit, no longer...

[summer otter]

You know what I am also wondering, just an interesting thought due to old school minecraft command blocks a programming language primarily build upon random execution with small sequences of linear code

[vernal niche]

Help I updated my IntelliJ and now it's round

[sharp lake]

oh no

[stray pasture]

So make a python script for each line.

[stray pasture]

Squircle*

[sharp lake]

oh no i updated my computer a few days ago
am i about to witness squircles

i haven't opened intellij in months

I just heard my CPU whir into action in the other room the second I opened it
I remember why I don't use IntelliJ

Looks completely identical so I guess I don't have the squircle update lmfao

[loud raft]

do you have the classic ui plugin installed?

damn neosisgui is based on wpf?

[stray pasture]

Andre. Persuade Nitrado to make horizontally scaling Master --- hmm <worker> server networks. Gamestste reflects across all <worker> servers.

[abstract timber]

Hey Guys! I am new into Server Plugins. Are there any Information about Plugin API or something on Release?

[stray pasture]

One blog post.

[abstract timber]

Thank you

[tulip frigate]

I really want to try to break out of whatever sandbox they impose on mods.

Curious to see how they will isolate the code if it's downloaded and installed automatically when a client joins the server

[summer otter]

INteresting vision and I agree as it would help improve the security by a lot if we find a way and they can patch it

[loud raft]

client doesnt download any code afiak

[sharp lake]

so far there's basically no code downloaded, so you won't have much to do until they add shader support and proper scripts
and i wouldn't hold your breath for scripts, it's unplanned outside of graph based scripting

[vernal niche]

nitra(.)do/jobs

[rose atlas]

y

[karmic bane]

With letter of recommendation?

[vernal niche]

You know us Germans. Nothing said is praise enough.

[karmic bane]

And no amount of coffee is enough

[rose atlas]

caffeine makes me sleepy

[karmic bane]

Maybe sleeping pills make you fully awake then?

[rose atlas]

crazy

[karmic bane]

I was cr- ahem

[tulip frigate]

Sad

[tulip frigate]

Didn't they mention somewhere that clients would auto download mods installed on servers?

[short wedge]

Hi, I was wondering if there are any plans for Docker support for Hytale — for example a Docker image or docker-compose setup? Would be awesome to hear if that’s something on the roadmap or if there’s a community solution already. Thanks!

[summer otter]

mods are mostlikely just some resources I think like blocks and entities with the logic running on the sever I guess from that comment

[modest blade]

no code yet though, only assets

[summer otter]

I think we can easily create our own docker containers as it's just a jar file

[neon tree]

I second this there is no number in the universe that count as enough

Ngl hytale server will almost run identical as a minecraft server just run jar file just possible with different startup parameters

[vernal niche]

There will be a community solution for that almost instantly. Getting the server to run ain't witchcraft

[neon tree]

Wouldn't be surprised if we have or see day 1 pterodactyl egg for hytale

[karmic bane]

I have my helm chart and Terraform conf already so yea

as a template based on assumptions but still

[vernal niche]

You should add an ansible that runs both, executed via a rundeck

[karmic bane]

Yes and a custom native app for remote access

[loud raft]

hour 2 pterodactyl egg

[neon tree]

[bleak frost]

Ok good. Then I'll start doing some practicing on spigot

[cloud valve]

I am counting on it very much because I need it

[jovial turtle]

we hope

[west elk]

What's implemented and how deep the customizability goes at launch remains to be seen but long-term, we will definitely be able to customize a lot more things than with Spigot

[jovial turtle]

I do hope so, would be great to build full interactive UIs etc without the limits of a chest

[summer otter]

actually that is kinda possible in a hacky way within minecraft

but I agree making custom UIs is quite essential

[sharp lake]

It kind of depends on what you have in mind when talking about custom UIs

[summer otter]

There are ways to draw arbitrary things on the screen and with some specialized code you can add a cursor and stuff

and then have a fully fletched UI, I used this principle to create a serverside minimap and some HUD thingies once

but I could expand on it and create fully fletched UIs

[sharp lake]

🤨 How do you draw arbitrary things on the HUD?

[summer otter]

one requirement a resourcepack with a specialized core shader that listens to special data in sequence put on a minecraft map that you can spawn into the world

you can even use this method to render dynamic entities and blocks

but blocks and entities are prone to fps lagg

yet the hud is quite efficient

[sharp lake]

Oh I see, the vanilla shaderpacks are quite new
You're definitely right about it being hacky, that sounds like quite a pain to design 🙈

[summer otter]

I can share a bit of code on how to do it

[stray pasture]

Take Minecraft flip it upside down and essentially create covert tunnels to make things that you wouldnt ever think of. 😛

[summer otter]

if you're curiousI do need to recover it from a damaged drive

so give me 1 day in that case

I also used this principle to create colored lights once

[sharp lake]

I've seen some custom UIs made in the 3D world, but nothing 2D on the screen, so I was curious what you had in mind

[summer otter]

this was not the best screenshot but will be a proof of concept (I have more of the colored lights)

okay I can't attach files haha can I dm you

[sharp lake]

You'll have to post to imgur to share here

[summer otter]

are links to imgur and stuff okay in this channel?

[sharp lake]

No but you can drop the dot and do "imgur com" instead
I've been making the dot italic like imgur*.*com

[summer otter]

haha smart 😂

but I would rather drop it in your dms in that case

[sharp lake]

Kk

You don't have messages on for non-friends here lol
Or at least I think that's the problem 🙈

[summer otter]

well I can't dm you 🥲

[sharp lake]

Might want to check your privacy settings for this server

[summer otter]

it's on for me

[sharp lake]

Idk the problem then bc mine is on too
You could just send it here 💀

[summer otter]

okay I will hope the mods don't find me 😂

https://imgur*.*com/a/zn9pqGC

this is for the colored light one

I will now search for the UI

Okay found one of the earliest concepts of the minimap, I made it way better later down the road, but I need to recover files from the drive for that to be showable (as I'm lazy) but I do have this one, since I once send to someone when I was really happy about it. It's not even symmetric and it looks to much like a minecraft map (well it repurposed most of those colors), but it shows the potential

https://imgur*.*com/a/kfRm019

later on I added full RGB color depth and added other stuff

like hud icons and even cusotmized this within a frame

I will search the code tomorrow and share it here

[sharp lake]

Oh wow, and that's from a map in-world? Or is it from placing it in the offhand

[summer otter]

map in the world so not offhand

and it was server generated, which was the most impressive thing

[sharp lake]

Very interesting, and you said the frame-rate is pretty good?

[summer otter]

it doesn't affect the fps until you place like several hundreds of those things

[sharp lake]

No I mean updates per second on the HUD

[summer otter]

But as you can add this using NMS you can keep 1 per player

that was like 20tps or faster with higher tps speeds using tick command

so quite decent, but rate limited at the server processing speed for packets, it could even be offloaded to the velocity server

yes I made my own patch of velocity to add entity packets

[sharp lake]

Very nice work

If you end up recovering it, that'd be cool to look at
No pressure though

[summer otter]

I once tested ui stuff at insane tick speeds 1000+ and it could just change really fast I couldn't see everything with my eye ut if I flickered it on off every frame you wouldn't even see it flicker but the game would register it as a seperate state

I will see if it can be recovered otherwise I have someting to do this christmas

as the drive got water damaged from one of my cats throwing a vase over my pc

[sharp lake]

oh lord

[summer otter]

it got some bad sectors but a lot is readable from linux atleast

in windows it crashes the whole pc

so it depends where the file was located

[sharp lake]

I stream a desktop from my server in another room 🙈
I have a laptop and a thin client thing depending on what I'm doing

Works great for gaming and development bc I have virtually unlimited compute lmao

[silver cloak]

There's a cool youtuber called "nimsy". He recreated fortnite in minecraft and he also showed how he made the minimap you are looking for!

[summer otter]

owh that's rather cool

I will also check it out

[silver cloak]

you should, it's hella cool. He has more ui stuff in there

[sharp lake]

Jesus Christ, I wonder what techniques he's using for this stuff 😭
His sanity is probably hanging from a single thread

[old moon]

Hhhhh my phone is pasting this image weirdly in safari

https://imgur*.*com/a/zn9pqGC 😐

[sharp lake]

You have to remove the asterisks

[old moon]

Wut I am actually confused

[sharp lake]

If you press copy text instead of actually selecting it
You have to go back and fix the link

On PC you just double click to select and copy-paste lol, because it won't copy the markdown

[old moon]

Uhhh I it’s morning for me, don’t mind my pea brain rn

[summer otter]

really cool video, and it does use the concepts I used but probably to some lesser extent. As I made it dynamic from the server. But on the other hand it is the same base method

[old moon]

Guys I did it 🥹

Also hi fellow Dutch dev 👋

Is hytale also going to run at 20tps?

Or is that unknown right now?

[sharp lake]

30tps server

[hexed pilot]

dang a upgrade was about to say idk

[old moon]

Uhh that’s a little better

[summer otter]

amazing question

[old moon]

Are you secretly a hytale dev?

[sharp lake]

that's a forwarded message from slikey lol, you can click it and jump to it

[hexed pilot]

I think they are just up with the news lol but interesting

[old moon]

ah okay! Yeah slikey has been giving us a lot of valuable feedback. I luckily got quite a few questions answered by him. I will probably pester him more at some point

“Each world is its own thread”

It’s going to be interesting creating 128 worlds then

[sharp lake]

Can't wait for my OS's scheduler to biff my 3,000 dynamically generated dimensions and all of their ticking

[old moon]

What I love is that we don’t need to have a proxy anymore. We can just use a transfer system

[sharp lake]

You'll still want one for some things, but it will just be a normal proxy

[old moon]

And the payload size is heaps

[hexed pilot]

so no more velocity sounds great (if u cant tell I am trying to catch up on what I been missing on)

[sharp lake]

I talked about it a bit earlier too

[hexed pilot]

I see

[old moon]

Yeah so not really a gameplay packet proxy. Just some infrastructure for routing, balancing and coordination

[sharp lake]

Yes, exactly

[old moon]

Great, yeah guess I’ll be getting out my raspberry pi 2 out of the closet

[sharp lake]

You won't need a proxy at all if you plan on doing something like:

• Hub, open on default port
• SkyBlock, open on +1
• SMP, open on +2
• Factions, open +3
  Because it's not a big deal at all for a player to join one of those gamemodes directly
  You could also just kick people to Hub if they join without a proper payload if you wanted to do a basic block, but that wouldn't be concrete without signing

If you were to do something like a mini-games server, where you have a bunch of independent servers handling each session
You wouldn't want those sessions exposed for people to randomly join
Idk if you necessarily need the reverse proxy for that, but that's what I would do

You could probably get away with the expose and kicking thing I said, but it'd be better to just block the connections entirely by never exposing them in the first place

I suppose it depends on how early you get the payload whether it's that big of a deal though
If it's during the handshake and all you need to do is verify a certificate (in the 4kb payload), then it's not so bad

We'll see actually, this is mostly conjecture
We just know that handling it either way will be possible
If the connections are signed already bc they're QUIC and you know where they come from, it might just be a built-in feature to block connections that aren't transfers from a specific host

[old moon]

Well yeah it’s something to think about tbh. I am probably going to setup a minigame ranked/casual network so I won’t get away with having no proxy.

Would need to code some sort of server orchestrator as I want it to be dynamic

[serene elm]

So uh, this is where we suggest mod ideas? lmao I got a whole idea for a lock & pick system (also the idea if the chest owner logs off, disabling the lock pick system)

[sharp lake]

Like you have to do a little minigame and you can steal some of the contents?

[west elk]

how many 3rd party modding discords do we need? ^^
someone should make a modding discord that combines all use-cases

[serene elm]

Yeah pretty much, I was thinking Oblivion Based locks, though yes on some of the content, like some slots would show up (Nothing too rare would be able to be taken) unless its randomized with a percent chance

[sharp lake]

That's a pretty good idea
Exposing 5 random slots or whatever, odds weighted by value and skill

[serene elm]

To be fair I just like the Trust System and Risks, being able to have a good or bad reputation if caught in servers pretty much lmao

[formal burrow]

these guys better hire the Multipaper dude to allow multiple servers to run one shard

they need to throw their monies at both the Folia and Multipaper dev so we finally can fix this stupid scaling problem

[fathom pelican]

Didn’t know anyone actually using it. How is it ? I have a ton of “energy” or whatever their credits are called but have yet to do anything with space time mostly because it’s changing every other week and it seems complicated to me

[silver cloak]

Since we got transfer packet, I am confident we can get a setting in config to accept payloads only coming from the main server

or you can just use redis and kick whoever that hasn't joined the main server

[hidden jasper]

I hope it will be token-based, since QUIC protocol is already encrypted and there will be some private key / public key at each server, maybe it could reuse that..

Because IPs are expensive

[vernal niche]

You would do this in a way where the server that hands you off signs the payload, and you would validate that signature on connect.

Because even if the user was connected to the main server, you still wouldn't be able to just trust the payload. So that's two birds with one stone.

Also good morning ☕

[kindred crescent]

I need to go to bed 💀

[uneven shoal]

hi people!

[silver bronze]

Networking really isn't my speciality so I hope this won't be too difficult to figure out, I liked when Bungeecord did all the work for me 😄

[kindred crescent]

I feel like this time it will be Hypixel that will do most of the work for you 🙂

[silver bronze]

Bungeecord was a pain in the ass for dynamically spinning up instances, hope Hypixel thought of a solution for this

[rose atlas]

I forgot how to setup bungeecord

[tidal mauve]

eh idk is that too soon of a ping

[silver cloak]

yeah! I hope thats built in already..

[rose atlas]

You mean something like bungeecord?

[silver cloak]

No, bungeecord doesn't have transfer packets (but yeah the front end result is the same)

[vernal niche]

Nah that's perfect because I literally forgot.

So many things... Sorry

[tidal mauve]

its fine

there were indeed many things

[old moon]

I plan on coding my own server orchestrator to dynamically load minigames

It will be a service that will obviously run separately on another instance

Will probably just start with handling one dedi/vps and then scale from there

Haven’t coded in rust before maybe should give that a try

[silver bronze]

What's your plan for scaling? Because obviously real-time spin up is probably impossible, so what will your approach be to pre-loading instances?

[silver bronze]

It can be either very fun or very frustrating, but that'd probably be my language of choice too 😅

[silver cloak]

Am I the only one that likes vertical over horizontal?

[silver bronze]

Hmmm not really, but I also like being able to do a full restart of a certain service without causing a total blackout 😄

[silver cloak]

def a good idea

[old moon]

Not sure what the strategy is at the moment. Probably a good old classic warmup pool

[silver bronze]

I'd probably just get a single vps for hosting all my instances and a smaller seperate one for orchestration, redis and whatever other database

[old moon]

Have it configurable so I can set the threshold

[silver bronze]

Yeah also kind of depends on how much RAM an unused Hytale server will use 😅
For something with large worlds etc. I wouldn't want to have too many unused instances for sure

But I hope a small minigame server that's unused can do with a few hundred MBs

[old moon]

Unfortunately we already have metrics and it’s not looking too good

[silver bronze]

Oh we do? The only ones I saw were of exploration servers where several players were playing

[old moon]

They did a play test with 70 players and they had 12GB ram and powerful cpu and wasn’t really able to handle it

[silver bronze]

Yeah that is likely due to world generation or just loading world into memory, these should be a lesser concern for minigame instances or for unused instances I assume

[silver cloak]

holy hate. To me these tests are awesome

[vernal niche]

RAM was not the bottleneck in that instance

[silver cloak]

70 players on an unoptimised world is a huge W

[old moon]

It’s not hate

I am allowed to have expectations and we all have different ways of viewing success?

[hushed tapir]

André did some more testing with four people flying in each their direction, and it crashed the server with 8GB of RAM, so it really does depend on what players are doing.

[vernal niche]

You can push usage down significantly.

The plugin we built tracks the number of loaded chunks and after they have reduced significantly, triggers an explicit garbage collection.

With that we pushed a previously used server down to 1.8GB when it was then empty, and with more aggressive garbage collection you could probably do even better.

But those considerations are all before mods that keep chunks loaded and ticking to power some auto farm

Also for the Java nerds, these tests were performed with G1GC, which is generally the recommended GC in these RAM ranges. I believe ZGC can do even better, but at the cost of significant CPU load.

[tidal mauve]

speaking of Java nerds. Zero mentioned what Java they use, what about Nitrado?

[silver bronze]

Am I allowed to ask if the 1.8GB was with no chunks loaded at all or with still some chunks loaded like spawn etc.?

[tidal mauve]

what flavor of jvm you guys use?

[vernal niche]

We're following their recommendations, keeps our test results comparable, i.e. temurin 25

[vernal niche]

No chunks loaded

[tidal mauve]

kk

[silver bronze]

That makes me very curious what is using 1.8GB RAM if not the world 😄
For a pre-loaded minigame instance that is obviously way too much, but surely there is some way to reduce this further. Was that just a non-modified vanilla instance other than the chunk unloader?

[tidal mauve]

i wonder how much we can strip out of the base game for e.g. minigames servers

[vernal niche]

It had our webserver, prometheus exporter and query plugin running, but their footprint should be negligible.

I will say though that the PerformanceSaver plugin in that run still had a bug that caused the garbage collection to trigger immediately when 0 chunks were reached instead of waiting, so it might not have caught everything that it potentially could

[silver bronze]

For minigame servers such a plugin would probably be overkill as for e.g. SkyWars the entire map should stay loaded in memory all the time probably. Hell, I'd probably store it on ramdisk instead of actually on the server.

[tidal mauve]

Oh, ig another thing to ask is which db connectors hytale includes, and if you plan on making a simple utility plugin to depend on for providing more of those

[vernal niche]

I mean yeah, the main feature of the plugin is dynamic view radius reduction and I don't believe you'd need/want that on a minigame server

[tidal mauve]

because, once again, fat jars are evil and having multiple plugins carry all their dependencies inside is a bad thing

[silver bronze]

First thing I will do when I get my hands on that server jar is turn as many things off and strip it down to the bare minimum and see how lightweight it can get 😄

[vernal niche]

I may or may not have been wondering why the webserver plugin jar was so big before realizing I had bundled the whole Hytale server jar

[rose atlas]

Disable as much as they can allow you

[tidal mauve]

i say just let us pull stuff from maven central

like how paper does

[vernal niche]

I have many cool ideas around auto mod installation that all end in the realization that I absolutely do not want to be the one having to defend against the inevitable supply chain attacks

[limpid knot]

Understandable

[sacred tulip]

The hytale team seems surprised that MAC computers suck

[tidal mauve]

wdym

[lament steeple]

The only thing holding back Mac support at this point is Apple's incredibly bloated and slow approval process for Code Signing and Notarization.
Given that holidays are coming up, I am not expecting to be able to confirm Mac support on launch day before End-Of-Year.

Tweet from slikey

[tidal mauve]

ah

well apple users are used to it, probably

[kindred crescent]

I don't think they are surprised. They just say it like it is

[kindred crescent]

They don't even know what else exists

[tidal mauve]

🤭

[sacred tulip]

This is after they praised Mac for its value

[steady obsidian]

So Hytale will be available on MacOS ?

[kindred crescent]

Yeah:

The only thing holding back Mac support at this point is Apple's incredibly bloated and slow approval process for Code Signing and Notarization.
Given that holidays are coming up, I am not expecting to be able to confirm Mac support on launch day before End-Of-Year.

[silver bronze]

Any news on if Hytale will have native Linux support yet?

[tidal mauve]

only flatpak

[silver bronze]

That's fair to me, I'm sure someone will get Hytale running on a Steam Deck too within no time 😄

[uneven shoal]

it will!

[uneven shoal]

Steam deck supports flatpacks

[silver bronze]

It does? Oh that's neat, I don't own one so I wasn't aware. Either way I appreciate the vision of the Hytale team in bringing the game to Linux, unlike an awful lot of the gaming industry

[tidal mauve]

eh Maven Central is quite good with that.
and unlike js, you are encouraged to depend on a specific version for transitive dependencies and such

Sonatype also seems to respond fast for malicious uploads, but java projects by themself are not as quick with updating to the latest and freshest releases

[oblique sand]

@random magnet you can release it unsigned, macs can run unsigned apps easily (xattr -d com.apple.quarantine)

[silver bronze]

Not to make any assumptions or reinforce any stereotypes here, but a lot of Mac users are probably very casual computer users and would have 0 clue what you just said 😅

[oblique sand]

should be simple to tell a user to open terminal and paste in a command

[tidal mauve]

probably not the best approach though

[silver bronze]

I used to think like this too until I worked in customer support for a while 😅

[tidal mauve]

id say thats one of those things you as a responsible adult shouldnt recommend other people

same as "just root your phone"

like yeah it solves the immediate problem of not being able to ship signed executable

but it also teaches the user that there is a magic command which lets them do things they not necessarily should

as in, if you know what you are doing, you are free to do whatever you want.
when you recommend it to others, assume they dont know anything and can shoot themself in a foot with that knowledge

[fleet isle]

Hello IT. Have you tried turning it off and on again?

[tidal mauve]

a couple of weeks ago internet stopped working at parents' place, so i came over to investigate.

while i was on my way, they were still trying to get through to the ISP tech support, and it was resolved when i arrived.
the tech support guy wasted almost an hour asking them to reboot this, unplug and plug back in that, until concluding with "your router MAC adress doesnt match what is recorded in our systems, and thats why its not working. I updated it for you, it should start working soon"

that router was there for like solid 6 years at that point, with no configuration changes and obv same MAC as always

[summer otter]

Question: do we have access to keyboard input from the players. So, if we want to bind a function to key z for example is that a possibility?

[kindred crescent]

Should be yeah

[reef gorge]

Question: mods are server-side, so if we implement a function for a double jump, etc., there won't be a significant time delay because the logic is only executed on the backend.

[west elk]

Unless this can be done with the upcoming client-side scripting, there will be a delay, but it won't be significant. I have double jump implemented server-side on my minecraft server and it feels fine

[kindred crescent]

They use client prediction stuff for that

We don't know how deep we can go with client prediction, but it is something Slikey has talked about

[silver bronze]

Yeah if it could be scripted onto client-side that'd be cool but unless your ping is above 200ms or something the delay won't be too obnoxious

[kindred crescent]

From Slikey on twitter answering to someone being "confidently wrong":

You refer to client side prediction in your message but then make no effort to imagine how our asset system and the game may support it. Client modding is not required when you have a rich SDK.

We already have a range of analogue capabilities in our "Interaction" system which does partial prediction and state management. We have work to do there but talking about fundamental architecture constraints is just Dunning-Kruger.

[vernal niche]

Just heard back and we currently do not support mods for Astroneer, sorry

[silver bronze]

I like how based Slikey is being all the time

[karmic bane]

He's also just a gigachad

[delicate crag]

Haha, I love when people call out BS

[karmic bane]

I found the tweet, the dude Slikey replied to also didn't really seem to understand what Slikey was saying even after linking articles and try to give an understanding of what a rich SDK may provide. Could be a case of talking past each other but it's more probable that the dude just doesn't want to learn

[sacred tulip]

Surprisingly difficult to install software on a Mac or do anything really. I was a long time windows user that had to use a Mac for some time last year. You don't just open up the exe and run the program you have to drag and drop into a folder. Clicking items on the taskbar sometimes just doesn't do anything if the item is already maximized

[oblique sand]

haven't found that's the case, I get anything I need in seconds with a simple brew install

[sacred tulip]

Where did he talk about client prediction

[karmic bane]

On X

[stray pasture]

Common. 😄

[stray pasture]

This is a very lovely response from them. 😄

[lilac grove]

Am i reading this correctly. Are people pre purchasing servers for hytale??

[west elk]

People are already purchasing/renting servers that they plan to run Hytale servers on when the game comes out in Jan, yes

For managed hosting providers that offer pre-order, I believe you don't get charged until the game comes out

[lilac grove]

Ah ok

[delicate crag]

I wonder if a RPI5 will be nuf 🤔

[formal burrow]

OVH and other hosts had some really good black friday sales

[green atlas]

I hope the Xeons in my homelab will be enough to host a server with ~100 players

[summer ibex]

👀

Hope you got that Jeff Bezos money to be able to afford enough RAM for that many players

[bronze kindle]

That's only like 20GBs of ram, if it follows close to MC, and that's on the high side.

[green atlas]

the 1gb per player number going around just seems like a marketing stat to sell a better server

[vernal niche]

We've never said "1GB per player" by the way

[summer ibex]

20Gb ram, so 32GB min for system. Thats still like $400

Unless you already have it

[bronze kindle]

I bought 128 for $600, so it's not bad

[summer ibex]

DDR4 or 5?

[bronze kindle]

4, but why do you need 5?

[summer ibex]

I never said I did. I simply asked a question

[green atlas]

My current box has 24GB so I'm prepare to have 16 for hytale and the rest for the system and other auxilary services like plugin db's and the such

[summer ibex]

ECC or Non-ECC?
I havent used ECC so unsure if its needed or makes much of a difference for a gaming server?

[bronze kindle]

Should be something like 200MBs per player, at around 1GBs for intensive plugins. Most players would stick together. Up it to 500MBs of a lot spread out.

[summer ibex]

How is the plugin for server performance coming along?

[green atlas]

I think it's ecc? i havent really starred at the ram too much

[summer otter]

for non critical stuff like gaming servers I hink ECC is not that popular. For the main reason that it doesn't add much benefit. In the worst case you get some corrupted data which in a multi server array can still be fixed. Otherwise badluck :/

[karmic bane]

You can also rent like a 64 GB DDR5 ECC bare metal server for like 50€ / month

[vernal niche]

We're using it in every Nitrado playtest. We wouldn't have put out those numbers if we didn't know that it would actually work

[green atlas]

I used to do that for MC just renting a server but hosting by myself gives me more controll and keeps my bedroom warm

[summer otter]

I think collocation in the end is the go to method if you have many big servers mainly for uptime reasons, and stuff like network limitations

[summer ibex]

I understand that. I was more asking if there have been any major improvements to it yet, if oyu can say.

Also will it be a publicly available plugin or on on Nitrado?

[vernal niche]

Adding a heat pump to my rack for infinite energy glitch

[karmic bane]

Infinite money glitch in Hytale when

[stray pasture]

Power alone

[green atlas]

My last month average wattage was 330 watts but thats my 2 servers router pc and VR setup

[vernal niche]

I think I need to highlight that the plugin is primarily a safety measure against performance degradation and crashes. It will keep your server "usable" even if you have more players on than would normally be healthy, or if those players do shenanigans.

It does not mean that you can magically put 20 players on a 4GB server with a 1024 view distance and they'll have a great time.

As for the last part of your question: We'll put this on GitHub under MIT license.

[stray pasture]

Well than I dont want your magic beans...

[summer otter]

how 👀 as in my case my pc alone would burn through 0.6kWh/hour 😂 let alone servers that run 24/7

[green atlas]

laptop

[stray pasture]

Ahh.

[summer otter]

okay makes sense

[bronze kindle]

You're running a server on a laptop 😮 scary times...

[summer ibex]

How much is electricity where you live? That doesnt seem like it would cost much?

[green atlas]

No. i have 2 servers, a router and a laptop on my UPS

[bronze kindle]

Oh. Misread. Nice mind me asking what brand and setup?

[summer otter]

Let me check, as it's rather high in the Netherlands, If I do it out of my head this is like 25 cents per hour for just the pc

but let me grab the official numbers

[summer ibex]

Oh wow i see

[summer otter]

okay it's a bit lower this was almost the price for a full kWh which is more like 30 cents

[green atlas]

2 dell poweredge r310s and a supermicro superserver as my router the r310's run proxmox and a bunch of services and the router runs opnsense

[summer otter]

but we got solar panels so that helps but not during winter times 😛
but in reality it is then more like 18 cents per hour for the pc

outside of the solar power which cover 75% of electricity expenses in summer time

[summer ibex]

Thats crazy. I run 3 PCs 24/7 on 3 different UPS's, and my electric bill last month total was only $90

And thats with runing A/C and all other appliances

[bronze kindle]

Nice. How's the single threading? Asking about a home setup for a family member. This looks quite cheap.

[summer otter]

yeah we are on a tight budget only pcs are outside of the scope. Like heater is off most of the time (so we got blankets and stuff laying everywhere. And then we have some other stuff running like dishwasher, yet it's crazy expensive these days

[summer ibex]

Although it may be going up a lot since they are building another datacenter near me and expected electric rates to go up 300-500%

[summer ibex]

Whats the average temperature there?
My summer bills is high because I keep my AC at 68f lol
But winter is nice comfy 64-66f

[summer otter]

well if we don't use the heater it's like 9 degrees Celsius inside (which comes down to 48.2F)

in the summer it's more like 25 degrees Celsius which comes down to 77F

[summer ibex]

oh that would be perfect for me 😂

We can range from -10f to 50f in the same day here lmao

[summer otter]

it depends on the situation though as sometimes it also hits 3 degrees celsius aka 37.4F when it snows (which it luckily rarely does)

[sharp lake]

It was 40F for me this morning and 104F during the day a few months ago 😞

[summer otter]

wow that's insane but is it inside or outside

[summer ibex]

sounds like the midwest 😂

[summer otter]

as I am talking about inside temps

[summer ibex]

ah, outside

[summer otter]

outside is currently (which is warm for those days) 12 degrees C so around 53.6F

but it often also hits lower temps and will go lower as the dark has already set

but it's not freezing (which I'm really happy with

[bronze kindle]

48f is just crazy for inside temps. I would be investing into a corn or gas burner.

[summer ibex]

yea lol
i misread and was thinking outside temp

[summer otter]

yeah well the house is not to old but also not well insulated, which is the main issue

[summer ibex]

thats what helps me in the winter, as mine is very well insulated.
Summer it gets hot fast inside. black shingles and lots of insulation keeps the heat in to well

[bronze kindle]

You have a basement?

[summer ibex]

yes

well half basement. house is on a hill, so back half is underground and front part has walkout garage

[summer otter]

nope but we do have an attic

[bronze kindle]

I would replace both the basement ceiling and attic insulation, with R50 right away. It helps a ton.

[summer otter]

yet having 1.4k to spend each month comes down when you live on your own to having 100 to 200 left to spare each month. Which is rather sad honestly. But on the other hand, I'm still lucky to come by.

[bronze kindle]

We have leaking windows and doors, but fixed the basement and we hold 10f degrees more now on the main floor

[summer ibex]

I have roughly R50 blown in insulation.
My major issues is garage door leaking air, and front door seals need replaced bad.

i plan on replacing front door, and new garage door seals/rollers this spring

[summer otter]

but lets talk about something else as we hijacked the chat a tiny bit woopsie 😛

[summer ibex]

🤷‍♂️ lol

[summer ibex]

do you make custom plugins/do commissions for custom/private plugins?

[bronze kindle]

Any plans on your first plugin? I'm thinking of a monitoring system to an external tool.

[summer ibex]

Thats something im looking for also

as well as ranks, claimable areas, etc

[summer otter]

what's the first thing you guys will be doing once hytale comes out. For me it will probably be see how far I come optimize the server jar cross different processes to allow more system utilization and scalability. Although it will probably fail at first but it will be fun atleast. Or I will make a hytale mod where I focus on the creative impact of people, by adding more machines, maybe even reimplement something like a wish block which functions like a commmand block and needs to be powered and stuff like this

[summer otter]

claimable areas would be hella cool indeed

[bronze kindle]

Wonder how long it would be before WorldEdit shows up.

[summer otter]

I don't think we wil see worldedit as it is in mc but probably some tool with similar features but different workings

[bronze kindle]

Porting it over I wouldn't think would be that hard. It uses a nice common system.

[summer otter]

I do mkae custom plugins yes. Although I do most for private servers, with the last one being a community with up to 200 players online at the same time so not a big fish but also not small

but somehow the server made a loss so I helped them break even atleast with some changes which I proposed

whereas I also helped servers 1/4th that size which made 10k a month, so it all depends on the strategy imposed. And yes we didn't do pay to win stuff and such more like the concept that wynncraft does with server wide boosts and so

which has an added advantage of peer pressure which also is kinda evil but okay

[summer otter]

I rather think that in hytale a system with more ui editing tools would work better

where you can select and drag an area, impose mathematical equations in a special box and such

bit like axiom but then even more powerful

[west elk]

What WorldEdit features are you missing? They basically have Axiom integrated natively ^^
Did you see the creative mode video?

[bronze kindle]

I wonder if key bindings would be a thing.

[summer ibex]

10k a month 👀
Im hoping to break even at $25-50 a month lol

[summer otter]

maybe even allow special scripting for terrain gen would be cool in such a plugin like:
x = t
y = t
z = cos(t)sin(t)

not that this is a useful equation as of right now but you will get the idea atleast

you can also input x an y in z and stuff

[west elk]

Yes, server plugins can register custom keybinds with their interaction api

[silver bronze]

Probably try and make some cool minigames for people to play, but it's easier said than done both on the hosting side and all the labour required to make something actually fun 😅

[bronze kindle]

I saw some. Even with that, I'm sure someone is going to do it. That's all.

[bronze kindle]

Interesting. I'll have to look into that

[summer otter]

I feel that but honestly it happens when you get to a good monetization plan. Although I never saw a dime as I did all the work for free (my bad) yet I did manage the finances and administartion and such beyond the development. I was even seen as the owner outside of official ownership

[silver bronze]

That's pretty crazy, did they not offer you any share of profit or ownership or anything?

[summer otter]

I do believe hytale is a great opportunity for us creators to work together or make amazing creations for players to play

and for the creators to live from it in a fair way

[summer otter]

nope, they did try to sell it to me in the end, but I was so burned out that I needed to take a break for 1 year from this industry to recover but I did do some interesting experiments during that year

[silver bronze]

Especially with the plans for monetisation for player share and other options, I believe Hytale to have the opportunity to properly unite creators and allow them to make cool stuff together.

[half dock]

Where can we follow you or reach out to you in the future about plugins or server work?

[summer ibex]

^^ Was about to ask the same thing

[silver bronze]

That's pretty insane honestly. I can't say much since I personally can't afford to hire anyone 😅
But if someone does a lot of work for free that is critical to your server, not rewarding them with a share of ownership is pretty crazy in the very bad way

[bronze kindle]

I feel you. Had the same thing happen to me, but for a Discord bot. Great experience and I'm known by many around there. Sometimes, it's for the best I guess.

[summer otter]

I did basically almost everything, which is my fault as I should have deligated it more, but I was the only dev, I managed the community at the time, did the taxes and administration. Handled the mod team and the most extreme mod issues were also send to me as I didn't play and was seen as an independent party. Although a mod should then still be able to do so, but apparently the players didn't think so

[silver bronze]

So basically, it was your server but someone else got paid. Yikes...

[summer otter]

yeah basically

because it was "their idea"

[silver bronze]

Did they at least do proper management, feature planning, roadmaps etc. or did you have to do all of that yourself too? Not sure what's worse

[summer otter]

I don't have a social media right now but plan on creating a channel once hytale launches with a code with me type of stuff and Codementaries where I explain what I worked on, and what I found interesting and learned from it bit like devlogs.

I am searching for a partner though as I know myself by now that I can jump to quickly from one project to the next unless if I have someone to ground me by also being part of the project as I then feel like finishing it all, instead of jumping from one stone to the next

[half dock]

Mind if I add you?

[silver bronze]

What kind of projects are you looking for? In case you are interested in working on a server (and get an actual share of potential profits 😅 ) I'd be interested in contacting you

[summer otter]

Well I am still glad with the experience as I learned tons from it, but I sadly paid the price with my mental health. Whch I am still reocvering from.

[half dock]

I’m a bit unclear on what type of servers I want to host yet for Hytale but I hosted servers big and small on MC for over a decade, just trying to build as many contacts as I can for Hytale. Will be helping to fund a lot of cool projects as they come along.

[summer otter]

Yeah but it happened more than once 😛 woopsie yet later I did get promised some shares but never happened even when I helped with paying the stuff. Due to a fallout between me and them due to them getting a bit cocky. Sometimes power corrupts the mind and othertimes it grants great lessons

[summer otter]

you can add me if you like

[summer ibex]

I sent you a FR as well.

[summer otter]

I am open for anything. I have a passion on creating an RPG in the long run with some special scoped features added into it to also allow full creative freedom. But for the start I don't mind to do something else especially as it allows you to build a community early on and do playtests

I can explain my vision if you would like

I even wrote an 80 page doc once, but again on my damaged drive

so I need to see what I can recover from there

[summer ibex]

80 pages...

[summer otter]

but I'm passionate to create something atleast and with the right people I would love to work together

[summer otter]

it was partly explaining some terms to others and building a foundation which I used to come to the deicisons

like where the balance lies between toxicity and competitiveness but also things like that a good and fun game isn't always fun

and that this is important to know to not always have everything being a 10

[summer ibex]

Ive always had a more of a wing and see what sticks mindset lol

Well time for house cleaning, doggo playtime, then new motherboard install.

[bronze kindle]

Sounds very interesting. I had a similar project that didn't get off the ground like that years ago. Couldn't get enough people to help out. Hopefully yours gets enough people.

[summer otter]

I feel that, well I made a whole spell system a while ago that allows me to create interesting spells within 5 min

but never got much further than the spell system, weapon system and bosses due to me getting on another project and not following my own passion project at the time

I also love the concept of time travel a lot, which has potential for an interesting minigame or separate server

[tired pasture]

i'm gonna make a mod that blocks the exit game button . No one can leave my server without permission!

[summer otter]

whahahaha evil >:)

presses alt + f4

[tired pasture]

alt + f4 to open the ingame shop

[summer otter]

presses windows key

[tired pasture]

shhet

[summer otter]

or the option button

[sharp lake]

ctrl-alt-f5

[old moon]

I am currently looking for a project to work on. It sucks always being a solo developer on a project. The moment I try to recruit some developers they always want to get paid rather than having actual passion for a project. Why is it so hard to just work on something you enjoy and be creative

[versed harbor]

Passion doesn't pay the bills
simple

[old moon]

Game/minecraft/hytale development can be a hobby?

[bronze kindle]

No one is creative... Simple. If they were, money would come later. 😉

[sharp lake]

the game isn't out yet lol, you'll find passionate people when they're looking for projects to contribute to
just create a repo and upload markdown plans or whatever

[zealous sleet]

lol, hobby devs will have their own projects to work on

[old moon]

Yeah I think this is actually the source of the problem.

It’s rare to find a person who has the exact same passion for a project as you

[sharp lake]

not really
i've done it a lot of times

[west elk]

Having passion for a project is usually not compatible with getting recruited for a project. Passionate people will reach out to work on projects they're passionate about. By looking for and reaching out to people that are recruitable, you are applying the wrong filters

[sharp lake]

this is a better point

[west elk]

It's really difficult because you need to build a community and community management is a completely different skillset than programming/project management

[sharp lake]

community and publicity can both bring in devs

once you actually have something to show, you can find help

[old moon]

I am aware about all of this, I just haven’t had any luck for passionate people coming to me.

[sharp lake]

i've been talking to you and i don't even know what your project is 🙈
where have you posted about it?

[versed harbor]

I can't see any activity on your linked GitHub profile
Even if you are working on something good, people don't even know that it exists

[old moon]

Uhhh, I didn’t just want to throw it in your face and be like look here is my project. And you would be like okay…

[sharp lake]

but like, where have you posted about it lol

i ask because the publicity is what matters most i think

[old moon]

I posted about it on reddit but people thumbed it down

[sharp lake]

oh

i can look into it later and give feedback 😭

[versed harbor]

For passion to grow, people need to know about the project
It's not enough to just post the idea - you need to show your passion too
Be active, help other people with their projects - that will make your github profile look better

[old moon]

Well I took it down because I got sad

[versed harbor]

It's not enough to just post the idea - you need to show your passion too
Post updates, build a community, show people how they can contribute (PR guidelines, code practices, expected format etc)

Actively maintain the project

If you can show that you are capable of successfully executing your idea, that's worth a lot and will drive more people to your project

[silver cloak]

yeah but why work on someone elses project for free when they can create their own?

[old moon]

I have done this pretty much for the last 10 years. Always worked on other people’s vision s for free because I care to help them out

[silver cloak]

Good for you. But I am totally against free labour. Unless someone begs to work for you ig

[old moon]

I don’t support that either, I want to have passionate people work on the same project that they are interested in together. That’s completely different from trying to recruit people for free

[silver cloak]

Makes sense

I got PTSD from working without contracts and or free so I don't really like to promote this type of thinking anyway. You have to be bound by something if it's not money

[bronze kindle]

hopefully it's not money. That's worthless.

[silver cloak]

Facts!

[vernal niche]

[stray pasture]

Time, Money is time. Working on a "passion" project is relative passion. - If you want it to be true passion the server or project either has to be the same goal or split for two separate goals. - However money always changes the discussion and people are greedy no matter what they say. Passion is only passion until it pays off

I have run too many "Passion" indie projects to know that their is no "passion" its always something, recognition, money, etc.

[fathom pelican]

I know this is sad but also made me chuckle a bit so thank you

Is what it is, I’ve built so many projects that never saw the light of day or stuff I cared about but no one else did. I just tell myself it was a learning experience I grew from.

[old moon]

Glad my sadness make you happy 🥹🥲

[fathom pelican]

As a rule of thumb if working on passion projects make it something you really like. So recognition or money doesn’t matter. If you don’t feel that way about a project , charge for it , because our time on this earth is limited.

[sharp lake]

because if their project on theme with your ideas, you can incorporate them and work together

[stray pasture]

Yep! Always start a project assuming you only care. Make it for you. I am sure your not the only one interested. (Keeps it small and fun)

Grow as interest and support comes

[sharp lake]

if you still have the contents, you could send it here and i'm sure you could get some feedback
we talk about plugin ideas all the time here

[stray pasture]

I'm intrigued what we talking about? 😄

[sharp lake]

huski has a dream and shared it on reddit
reddit swarmed with dislikes :(

[stray pasture]

Sounds like reddit... I never touch reddit for that reason. 😄

[sharp lake]

yeah LOL

[stray pasture]

Huski share it here! 😛

[sharp lake]

he's also looking for development help
which you only really get if people are also passionate about your ideas

[fathom pelican]

No one usually cares unless either A. There’s something in it for them or B. They’re genuinely also interested in the same thing you are

[civic mortar]

Hey would you be interested in making a server setup with me?

[old moon]

So essentially, I plan on making a minigames server but halo inspired.

• I am planning on making a game mode called Spartans vs Elites (kind of like red vs blue)
• You get to choose to be human or alien. You get to choose to be part of any teams until their full.
  • Each team will have about 12 players
• There will be a rotation of gamemodes and maps
• In between each game you get sent to a small lobby which prepares you for the next game.
  • Here you can choose your loadout, team and cosmetics.

What's special about halo is the way that spawn point placement are done
Also how energy shields works as it stops insta kills with guns (You have to melee todo this)

The game modes are limitless and there is huge potential for custom modes never seen before

I used to love gamemode rotation on arcade styled servers so people would constantly be playing something different each round

It's fast paced, addictive and has lots of potential for replayability

[old moon]

Are you interested in the idea I presented?

[old moon]

I don't have the original message of the reddit post

So yeah I am huge scifi nerd and no I did not like paramounts Halo series (was piece of garbage o.O)

[silver cloak]

Consider sharing some of the mechanics, it sounds sweet

[civic mortar]

Im not a developer but as far as I understood, hytale is not ready to sustain this kind of gamemode

It crashed with just 70 players after 1 hour

Aside from this, the idea is good but you need a lot of budget to make this

[loud raft]

it should work

if they did like a hub/instances type of setup

and by the time that mod gets to a polished state, the server software should be more performant too

[silver cloak]

70 players on a 12gb ram + just a default world sounds pretty neat ngl. Minigame servers can def hold up to 200 in a controlled environment

[loud raft]

they could unload components of the server that arent needed too

should increase the max amount of players

[west elk]

That was a bug with entity spawning they already addressed

And a minigame server has way different memory behaviors than an SMP

[civic mortar]

I mean im no expert so you guys tell me ahahaha

I fear multiplayer will be very unstable and it would be normal

[old moon]

Core mechanics:

• Shield/Health system

  • It's great because it awards awareness over raw aim
  • Headshots only matter after shields break
  • Time to kill is longer than other shooters (making it more forgiving for newer players)

• Smooth medium speed movements/minimal movement capabilities

  • Strafing will be easier
  • Movement enhances the combat and doesnt replace it
  • will feel like classic halo games

• Map Control

  • Power weapon spawns which players need to fetch to knock shields down quicker
  • Working on a great system to allow for great team comebacks to happen
  • Maps are designed so holding a spot is powerful but risky

• Weapon mechanics

  • Not really much raycasting and more projectile combat
  • Plasma weapons which travel slower but at lethal at short distances
  • starting weapons will be good, but to really excell in combat you will have to go for great weapon drops

There are lots of other mechanics there but this is kind of what I am thinking atm

Sorry I know it's a long post (will be much longer)

[silver cloak]

I would def play smth like this

[loud raft]

you should join the hytalemodding[.]guide discord server, and post your project there

[old moon]

Yes I am aware that hytale is a fantasy inspired game at it's core but I think it has super high potential to create games from scratch as everything is kind of throwaway and you can have a blank canvas when you create a server

[civic mortar]

The idea is very good, but my initial question was another 😭😭

[civic mortar]

Can u send me the link in private pls?

[loud raft]

it should be on that website

just remove the []

[civic mortar]

@old moon

[old moon]

You mean this one?

[civic mortar]

Yeah

[old moon]

What kind server setup? Hytale server setup/discord server setup?

[civic mortar]

Hytale obviously

If you want a project, this is perfect to start

[old moon]

I already have a dedicated server with a panel setup to start running these minigames. I am just waiting on the server jar now 😉

As a developer I normally do the operations myself, especially since it's a passion project I try to learn as much skills I can, not just software engineering

[shadow ledge]

So do we already have an idea then for making plugins? Getting here kinda late So i'm wondering what kind of support there may be. I'm sure everything needs to be made fresh at the moment of course

[old moon]

There has been lots of information that has been spread around but I think it's a lot take in. Since it's kind of scatared around everywhere and people are saying a lot of different things for some reason I think the best place to look is at posts from Slikey and other developers that are greatly contributing to showing what it's going to be

[stray pasture]

I really like this idea. I missed halo 4 griefball... 🙁

[old moon]

Oh yeah will definitely be adding a spin on that one 😉

[stray pasture]

Yeah never go to reddit unless you want your dreams tossed itno a garbage compactor, frozen in liquid nitrogen and tossed out a 3 story balcony.

[sterile dove]

I used to be the most feared Halo reach mcc swat player:)

[old moon]

ill keep that in mind for next time

Haha maybe you still can be if the project goes well

I already have commisioned a couple of 3D models, hopefully ill get some more in the new year

[sterile dove]

:), are u a dev? Also i loved the halo series, but i guess everyone who knew anything about halo lore hated it, I played every halo till halo 4 or 5 and i just never liked reading anything or listening to storylines

[old moon]

That's okay I think that's what special about halo right, it's a game you don't have to fully invest yourself in. Some poeple love it for the lore, others love it for it's action packed and team styled gameplay

[sterile dove]

Revealing the face was only thing which was kinda annoying

[old moon]

Yeah, I think overall a lot of it looked really sick tbh

and yes I am a professional software engineer by day and a game developer by night

[sterile dove]

Holy sht i hate typing on a phone:D so many typos

[old moon]

Haha I have the same,

[sterile dove]

Are you gonna have halo maps? Or fully custom ones or halo inspired?

[old moon]

I will probably have halo inspired maps, I don't want to completely take from the games as it still will be a unique experience.

Luckily I used to build a lot and was even part of the hypixel build guild at some point. There was a secret creative server at some point in time on Hypixel

So development and builds are covered. It's just I can't model to save my life

[sterile dove]

I have a plan at some point if somebody else doesn't do it before me to have weapon mod with attachment support ect, but i have so much on my plate at the moment so will have to see whats realistic to do and what other people have done when my projects finish

[old moon]

Oooooh that sounds sick!

[main moon]

Cant wait to create

[sterile dove]

Gonna make zombiesurvival, had a pretty good prototype on mc so im going to need good guns for hytale:)

[shadow ledge]

Tbh i'm hoping someone makes a profession system or somethign so I can run a civ/geopol server. Just an idea though, I sadly lack the skills and money for it rn

[sterile dove]

I guess ur probably gonna make gun mod before me just make sure it has attatchments:3 and its open source

[old moon]

Nice, I might utilize it but depends how arcady the halo server will be

[shadow ledge]

From what I've seen around there may be muskets in the future

[dawn scaffold]

Hi, do we know if there will be the possibility to connect multiple servers/ send players to another server? (Sth like Bungeecord for Minecraft)

[stray pasture]

Yes

[tired falcon]

do we know anything about the API?

[stray pasture]

Only that it exists and its rich

[tired falcon]

how do you know this?

[sharp lake]

slikey/status/2000608313977810946

I wouldn't call it a blog post. It is more of a technical manual with some example data. Just wrapped up a playtest with 70 people on various hardware until we finally crashed the server.
There is a lot of context such as "minigame server" vs "exploration mode SMP". We believe that a 3 vCore + 8 GB server can sustain 6-8 players. A Ryzen 7950x with 12 GB RAM server, we were able to push 70 players but TPS degraded until the server crashed (~45 minutes).
I think we will defintiely see 200 player minigames such as Mega Walls or Super Sky Wars. While vanilla SMP is going to require some beefy hardware to push 100 players in a single SMP.
We are continuing our effort to improve stability and further add performance optimizations to get those big anarchy servers.

[sharp lake]

They actually stated explicitly that it can sustain this kind of gamemode lol

I think we will defintiely see 200 player minigames such as Mega Walls or Super Sky Wars. While vanilla SMP is going to require some beefy hardware to push 100 players in a single SMP.

[dawn scaffold]

Are we allowed to ask for some interested devs to join a project (the rules on the dc here say no advertising, but I guess that is not meant by that)? If so:

Im a CS student from germany and me and some other CS friends are planing on creating some server/plugins etc. If sb, preferred from a similar time zone, is interested in joining - im open for dms :)

[sharp lake]

I'd just stay away from advertising a service, like hosting

[dawn scaffold]

yeas

[old moon]

Yeah and a single server will have max 24 players probably

[stray pasture]

Single server? I'm betting around 50-60 comfortably so far. They are stress testing. Not normal play loads.

[west elk]

yeah these numbers are pretty meaningless without considering server specs, mod impact, and player behavior

[fathom pelican]

I like this idea. Like civilization building based on economy and factions. Feels like there’s not enough proper games like that. Kind of like “that time I got reincarnated as a slime” anime if you’ve ever heard of it.

[old moon]

Sorry I meant regarding any kind of minigame

Unless we really talking big game modes like the walls

[stray pasture]

Mod impact is unpredictable. But we have server specs and we were given the behavior tested under. Vanilla only remove mods from the equation. They are not required

[stray pasture]

This is fair.

[old moon]

Like 4 teams of 6 players or 12vs12 normally I think. Any team size beyond these are a bit excessive unless you have a ffa of 100 players which would be fun (battle royale)

[stray pasture]

Idk. I like my dimension idea. 😂

100 players but 5 teams of 5 players.

Just have 4 other worlds replicating to each other! Block broken or placed reflect!

[old moon]

Wait how many players is that? 🤔😳

[stray pasture]

Edited my message. 😄

[old moon]

I think that’s very doable especially if you keep the game logic tight.

Didn’t they say each world takes up 1 thread or will it technically be one world?

[stray pasture]

Oh yeah! Originally this was thrown out for a fully distributed and scaled for server to server communication as a theorized concept. 😛

[old moon]

Ah nice! Damn kind of thinking how much we are gonna have todo from scratch.

[stray pasture]

What do ya mean?

[old moon]

I know that there is some sort of transfer object between servers but if I want to make a fully scalable minigame network I need to setup a lot more.

Then again I will probably keep it simple at the start and have no dynamic servers

[dawn scaffold]

cant u already start implementing dynamic server scaling? or by creating sth own or using kubernetes for instance

[old moon]

Yeah was thinking setting up some sort of server orchestrator to handle dynamic server loading

[dawn scaffold]

yeah

I just started a few hours ago xd

[old moon]

Would have to be a separate service which sends events

[old moon]

Oh nice, are you coding it in rust? :3

[dawn scaffold]

no in go

[old moon]

Oh nice!

How are you handling the data/messaging, redis?

[dawn scaffold]

so since i started a few hours ago, Im not sure. Also I will not be alone working on it so maybe we change sth later

[old moon]

Do you have a repo I can checkout?

[dawn scaffold]

But Go backend, the plugins will be in java. Communication with grpc.
For messaging prop. kafka
Database either postgres or mongo (not sure yet)
and prop. some redis for caching

[dawn scaffold]

its really just starting and thinking, but yeah so nothing big yet

I created such a system for minecraft before (redis pub sub, mongodb, redis in java) for my old minecraft network

[old moon]

Do you need durable streams though?

and things like event replay / long retention?

I mean I guess it really depends on what whether it will be used for things like matchmaking and quick server handling

[dawn scaffold]

yeah good question

what kind of events are u talking about? Like server started, player joined...?

[old moon]

I think postgres would be a great option for database

[dawn scaffold]

yeah if a relational, then postgres

[old moon]

More server related events, yeah server started, stopped, failed etc

[dawn scaffold]

so for that in my old project I used pub sub

[old moon]

Did that go well?

[dawn scaffold]

for instance we/ I used it to send messages to the chat to say "server xy stopped"

[dawn scaffold]

yeah was working perfectly

[old moon]

Awesome! What's the reason for not sticking to redis, mongodb and java?

[dawn scaffold]

learning reasons mostly

like I did a lot of java, also at work I do fullstack (java spring boot, react frontend)

[old moon]

That makes sense, I would probably pick go over java, but at the same time it's normally good to stay within the existing stack of the server

[old moon]

Nice! I just do backend at the moment but can do front-end also

[dawn scaffold]

yeah. the cool thing is that im planning to do some microservice stuff, so if sb wants to do java can just go with that

[old moon]

maybe ill get into learning go also

[shadow ledge]

I'm in a server rn thats trying to flesh out a profession system in MC, they are thinking of using something like the reign mod which sounds cool, but gotta see whats in the game first before we build off that

[loud raft]

postgres

[dawn scaffold]

Yeah prop. There will be many to many realtionships so the joins are quite nice

[dawn scaffold]

are there any others already starting with coding some backend or sth?

[west elk]

Big claims for someone whose about-me mentions aren't googleable 😬

[sharp lake]

i could find anubis and it has 20 players so 💀 there's that

[hexed pilot]

damn

[sharp lake]

i did try to find the other one first though and had zero luck at all

maybe i should install pixelmon and see if it's just one of those pixelmon gambling servers and we've been successfully advertised to

[west elk]

the pixelmon server is a different one 💀

[hexed sail]

it is indeed, anubismc is different from the one owned by jacob.

[hexed pilot]

it is I looked it up 😭

[hexed sail]

SuperCoolMomo owns that one and had advertising deals with vikkstar and seveal other big youtubers.

[sharp lake]

oh

[hexed pilot]

wait min I played on that server before hand

[sharp lake]

@safe tide where the frick are your server details

do you even have an ip to share

[west elk]

you can google the discord link which leads to his youtube video where he pretends to be an independent reviewer

that video has a shop url and ip in the description

[old moon]

Of course it does

[west elk]

1/2000 players, 0 votes on server lists

[hexed sail]

its 1.8 factions

dead gamemode

[sharp lake]

what discord link?

[west elk]

in his think bubble thing

[sharp lake]

oh

[hexed pilot]

if u click their pfp it should show

[sharp lake]

theproblemchild69 😭

[old bough]

Excited to see what capabilities we have with the Creator asset, if we can spawn particles at a specific location, play specific music / sound effects to players, adjust their camera angle

[kindred crescent]

We can do all that

[ornate wind]

its gonna be like minecraft datapacks but on steroids

[fair sinew]

I got invited to it... It's like 300 members, but 90% are bot accounts to fluff it 🤔

[old moon]

Hmmm

[spark mortar]

Yoo

[vernal niche]

☕

[kindred crescent]

One dev goes to bed and another wakes up. Good morning duck guy

[stray pasture]

Sleep?

[kindred crescent]

That's the thing I should be doing

[stray pasture]

I should, but I am watching the last episode of StarGate Universe. 🙃

[steep lion]

I guess I'll write some backend code in Java for my hytale server and leave some interface methods

so that when hytale server / plugin API is released I can just add simple hooks to call those methods

notably for things like discord chat integration / verification

[stray pasture]

^ This is what most seem to be doing.

[sharp lake]

I'm waiting for the API because I'm terrible at thinking 😍

[frigid kindle]

The API documentation would be a good starting point.

[old moon]

Waiting on the API because it’s summer and I want to get a tan before I start another addiction.

[civic mortar]

I think that you didn't understand what i'm saying. Can we talk in Dm?

[civic mortar]

I don't know when man. I don't think that hytale can as soon as it comes out

[tired scarab]

Is there any info when documentation will be released?

[oblique lotus]

oh its gonna have java plugin uh

[vernal niche]

Latest info I'm aware of is that this will go out on game release, not earlier

[marsh edge]

Will there be like plugin dependencies in your opinion? For example, if I want to add a certain plugin, it could depend on a base plugin

[dawn scaffold]

if somebody will create e.g. a permission system and others will used it, then yes. Right?

[karmic bane]

Yoo u got a new role

[marsh edge]

I mean, if I think about how MC has seen an explosion of mods revolving around electricity and energy, it took quite a lot of time before most of these mods aligned to a standard exchange. I could see a base plugin that defines rules for electrical and energy exchange, that other plugins (I don't know, electrical furnace to say one) will align to. Think of it as the Matter protocol for a certain scope of plugins.

[karmic bane]

Yeah I think so too

[marsh edge]

Should be open source and free, as opposed to the specific plugins that use it that could be monetized or not, depending on the creator's will

[vernal niche]

[tidal mauve]

https://hytalemodding. guide/en/docs/projects/hyperions

[marsh edge]

I mean, this is cool and all, but how can they work on this when it has not yet been established how plugins will be made? I know it's Java at the end of the day (I have written quite a lot of Java myself), but just slapping a repo there with code from the TechReborn (maybe it's the same team), I don't know.. We'll see what they cook. If I find some free time I will even join in with the coding. I just hope they make it free for use.

I also just found hyenergy, but it has the same potential issues...

[silver cloak]

Someone needs to make a trains plugin

[tidal mauve]

if its paid then someone else make a free version duh.
if the whole point afaik is to make unified system, i doubt they'd do anything stupid like that

[marsh edge]

We'll see.

[sand crown]

I have a question. Will the connection of the multiplayer like Minecraft's?

😔 hullo?

[silver cloak]

yes

Launch day will be like minecraft but few weeks / months later, we will get server exploration / browser

[sand crown]

Is there also MOTDs?

[silver cloak]

Probably, you will be able to add tags, pictures and a server description in the near future

[sand crown]

hmm?

Seems like better than Minecraft's

[silver cloak]

Yes

[leaden mango]

Hi, when Hytale will release how quickly can we host our own servers that day?

or are we bind to providers like nitrado or smth like that to have day-1 mp servers

[tidal mauve]

server jar released at the same day (time?) as early access, supposedly

[leaden mango]

okay

[delicate crag]

Ain't no way, games to release in a month and people are already preparing like that 😭

[tidal mauve]

people are preparing way more than that

there are already drafts being made for wiki based off stuff Slikey and other devs post

[west elk]

as long as it's not fandom, I'm down

[near raptor]

Yeah the video on why/how the Minecraft wiki moved away from Fandom is definitely worth the watch

[delicate crag]

The same thing happened with PoE.

[tidal mauve]

yep

[worn idol]

Has anymore server information been released yet? setup, ports etc?

[stray pasture]

I want to see how accurate or how much wasted work /tech debt will arise.

[tidal mauve]

its gonna be a java application running on java 25, tested on temurin eclipse 25

https://hub. docker. com/_/eclipse-temurin
sounds like a good place to start

[worn idol]

Where was that info released? thanks also

[tidal mauve]

here

[worn idol]

thank you

[tribal venture]

What would be the best way to prepare for hytale's release if I wanna make plugins? Learn java?

[west elk]

You can play around with the spigot/paper api a bit. Hytale modding will be pretty similar

[kindred crescent]

Who said it would be?

[west elk]

Based on examples like this
discord com/channels/523059903812599811/1428794280868184064/1449718578457739324

[sharp lake]

Can you forward it instead lol

[west elk]

nope

no attachments allowed in this channel

[sharp lake]

forward

[west elk]

you may apologize after trying it :)

[sharp lake]

forward literally anything near the message so we can jump to it

[west elk]

yeah the next one after that. Not forwardable due to attachments

[sharp lake]

there i logged in on pc 💀

[summer otter]

are there any longterm plans to be able to make server side mods which can impact client prediction. So for example (not my use case) custom liquids which suck players up or down instead or more likely to be used a launch pad. Without it necessarily needing to be run 100% on the server?

This would also allow for some interesting benefits as it can allow offloading some stuff client related to the client. I know clients shouldn't be 100% trusted but that is something that can be fixed by some other system.

[sharp lake]

we think so, client-prediction is going to be data-driven basically

if it's missing at launch, it's pretty likely it will be added later

they said they'll be listening to developers about what's missing from the client API, and physics related to blocks and liquids are definitely within scope

[kindred crescent]

Just like at first there were no texture packs or shaders possible and now, according to the last Slikey interview, those will be possible client-side eventually

Isn't it awesome how the devs are listening to the community?

That's why micro-transactions and taking a cut from modders/servers is OK

They actually use the money to improve the game

[formal burrow]

there will likely be local scripts in the fture but they need to hash out the security issues, roblox clearly can do it though

[kindred crescent]

And anyway, most things will probably be assets and custom client prediction won't be needed for that

[sharp lake]

they don't have any of that money yet lmfao
that cannot be the reason we're hearing changes of direction

[kindred crescent]

Uh?

[sharp lake]

i actually believe them when they say no text scripting

[kindred crescent]

They don't have any money yet, but if they want to keep doing this job for the next ten years with an increased team size, they'll need it

[sharp lake]

that doesn't have anything to do with their change of opinion

their funding was also part of their plan at the start, which didn't include client texture packs

do you have a source for where slikey confirmed that client texture packs were coming to the game?

[kindred crescent]

I don't understand what you're trying to say but OK

[kindred crescent]

The Kaupenjoe interview

[sharp lake]

you're saying "this is why microtransactions and taxes are good" but their behaviour has zero to do with microtransactions 💀 they're completely unrelated

[kindred crescent]

He talked about how it was not something possible and then people asked for it and gave a good example for a use case: Some servers don't care that a player may use different textures so they should be able to have them.

[kindred crescent]

What? Of course their behaviour is unrelated. I'm saying that their behaviour is the reason why micro-transactions are actually OK.

If they didn't have this behaviour, then it would still be OK because it's their game, but it would suck

[sharp lake]

okay so wait, you're saying the behaviour is why it's okay
but at the same time, if they didn't have it, it would still be okay?
so you're not saying the behaviour is why it's okay
they're just unrelated

[kindred crescent]

It would be OK in the sense that it's THEIR game and they can do what they want. (legal and not morraly terrible although not cool)
Their behaviour makes it OK for the consumer because we get a game that keeps getting updates and getting better (very cool)

[stray pasture]

I would expect Hytale to have micro transactions. 😄

Why else are they going to create cosmetics - Just because they have millions set for the next years doesn't mean there is not reason to make more. 🙃 Its just so they don't have to stress about always having the required income.

[sharp lake]

well yes, they confirmed microtransactions
it's just extremely strange to be like "this is why it's okay"
the reason why they're behaving the way they are is because it's an indie-passion project again
cosmetic microtransactions are just a good way to keep something indie

and marketplace cuts are natural because hosting a marketplace isn't free lol

[kindred crescent]

cosmetic microtransactions are just a good way to keep something indie
Exactly

[near raptor]

Hm, I still think that the first-party Hytale/Hypixel server that will launch eventually will also be a large revenue stream.

[kindred crescent]

They could also very well have micro-transactions and not do anything beside that

[sharp lake]

probably also from server-specific cosmetic microtransactions and ranks lol

i wouldn't be surprised if they didn't try to double-dip though
if they don't sell any server-specific cosmetics, it incentivizes global ones

[near raptor]

They wouldn't need microtransactions in other places other than their first-party server. But the different cosmetics that came with the various game editions are a bit confusing in that case.

[sharp lake]

i don't think i understand what you mean

[near raptor]

There are various revenue streams that I see, with their first-party server and some kind of Marketplace with a 20% royalty/fee being the big ones. Unsure if microtransactions done by Hytale themselves are also still required in order to gain revenue to support the game.

[west elk]

They'll sell global cosmetics.
maybe also server cosmetics on their own servers, but the global cosmetics are the important ones for most people

[sharp lake]

i don't think they'll be required at all after official servers and marketplace cuts
but they're gimmicky paid cosmetics so you might as well sell them

if they plan to do more hiring, it can make a big difference

[kindred crescent]

Pretty sure they said there would be nothing to buy from their first party server (don't quote me on that).
As for the 20%, they can reduce the cut they take by sellin micro-transactions instead

[sharp lake]

they said it wouldn't be pay-to-win
but that pay-to-win would be allowed

[near raptor]

It would be highly unlikely that their first-party server doesnt have any kind of monetization. It'll be expensive to keep it up and running, also requires a (different) team of devs.

[sharp lake]

we know profit isn't their motive, so they have plans for the money
and it's most likely just service and staff costs

[buoyant tulip]

I think they said, no cuts for the first year or so from any transactions.

[kindred crescent]

Yes that they did: for the first 2 years

[buoyant tulip]

oh thats great

[sharp lake]

it's an interesting move, i hadn't heard of that one before

kind of makes sense for early access though

[near raptor]

Simon tweeted it some time ago I believe

[sharp lake]

yeah ik it's been confirmed, i just mean in the industry

[near raptor]

I think that whilst the game is in EA, they dont really want to take royalties from the modding and server community, as those communities also need some time to get up and running

[kindred crescent]

Also if the game keeps getting compability-breaking updates (because it's in EA), then that would be annoying