server-plugins-read-only

[latent spindle]

Bruh I want a p2w faction server

[neon cave]

it'll be in hytale, if anything if hytale's default netcode is actually good... it'll be even bigger on hytale than Minecraft

[zenith mist]

How though

All the cannoneers ain't hoping ship

Lol

[viscid wren]

Camping Rushers YouTube series was good tho ngl 😅

[neon cave]

i really think hytale should be perfecting what didn't have the capability to survive on Minecraft itself.

Minecraft's limitations drove the entire p2w aspect because of how hollow the game is without severe modding and distributing ur own client.

Hytale's modding capabilities server sided allows servers to actually provide detailed updates to their gamemode that repair issues with core mechanics allowing players to continue to play fairly and giving more ways to loot, play, incentivise.

[viscid wren]

There will be other ways to raid friend

[neon cave]

Yeah, we can do more than fencegates on HCF, more than cannons on Factions

[zenith mist]

Yeah just not how it is currently lol

Its not factions anymore without the Redstone style tnt cannons

It'll be basically rust

[neon cave]

i think hytale is a punch to the gut to the entire atmosphere of Minecraft but only if they can follow through with the quality, first impressions are everything and if the game is good on release with great performance, minecraft is gonna slowly lose its playerbase.

[viscid wren]

I think Minecrafts biggest problem now is that Microsoft doesn't view it as a game that can be radically changed. They view it as an asset they invested into their business portfolio that can continue to make revenue with maintenance

They're never going to fix combat, or make it so clients automatically download mods, hell they still haven't even fixed anvils and enchanting

[viscid wren]

Alright then it will be something else similar it just won't have Minecraft style TNT canons

[zenith mist]

Yeah I can see rust being a thing like that style of gameplay will be simple to recreate

The advanced physics of tnt cannons don't work without special server jars on mc

[viscid wren]

Yeah I mean I don't want it to just be a carbon copy of Minecraft factions anyways, that's boring

But I want it to be competitive because that's fun

[zenith mist]

So hytale is gunna be months mayne even a year past server release

Before a viable factions server becomes a thing

They'd have to rewrite the entire physics engine at that stages your making your own game

[viscid wren]

I already have a vision and have a database setup for now my factions will be stored

[zenith mist]

Lol

Well stored sure xd

Getting the playerbase is a other entirely xd

[viscid wren]

Idk you don't gotta be negative about it, let people do something different than Minecraft factions 💀

[zenith mist]

Xd well I just hate factions as whole after 15 years of it

Its not really your fualt tbh

[stoic frigate]

do you know how the server hosting will work exactly like will it be free and i can hop off but others can still play?

[viscid wren]

Okay you can hate factions, I like it, and I want to use hytale to complete the vision that Minecraft that couldn't enable

[stoic frigate]

tbh everyone has their own taste and i love factions based servers or whatever

[zenith mist]

Server hosting likely will be the same and cost money lol

[viscid wren]

You're going to need to pay for a hosting service or setup your own server

[stoic frigate]

ok gotcha i hope they have a realm type of thing like mc does i hate going through the hosting process

[zenith mist]

I know 2 hosts that are prepping for hytale atm

[viscid wren]

They said they might enable some thing like inviting your friends to your single player world? But will probably be limited to a few players I'm assuming

[zenith mist]

Bisect hosting and gravel host

[quick prawn]

Most of the companies are

That host more than just Minecraft

[viscid wren]

Sounds like it will be a .jar anyways, wouldn't be hard

[zenith mist]

Yes but I knew about the buy back before it was publicized tha ks to bisect

They prepped and made a web page in July this year

Around the time of the shutdown

So thats a bit too on point in timing

Sides any massive servers are gunna need a dedi

Hytale isnt gunna be optimized for a long while

So assume larger server costs is smart.

[rich solar]

Idk modded minecraft is a bish to host and run. I see modded hytale to be a lot less expensive in that sense.

[zenith mist]

The game is being released in a raw unoptmized state sure mos people's pcs theese days are nuts spec wise

[viscid wren]

It was tricky trying to get all my friends using the same mod pack

[zenith mist]

But if your planning to have a high population hytale server

You gotta account for the performance when say 1000s of users may join your server

Nobodies server will have any real reputation in hytake out the gate its. Reset button for all asides hypixels ofc

So people will nost likely join random servers looking for fun

And keep the ones that are fun on there list of servers

:/ so the selling point needs to be on point visuals perfected, and systems bug free (mostly)

Otherwise there reputation might tank

Real considerations to make if you planning a server lol

[undone creek]

i still believe, SG will be huge along with pvp games, uhc etc but i think MMOs will be the biggest type

[quick prawn]

I'm hoping to go a skyblock route personally

If there will be interest and backing in that. The lack of developed plugins and need for custom code will be a major slowdown

[red venture]

MMO is what we’re aiming for. We’re working on planning phase right now

[undone creek]

ya i thijnk mmos will be huge in hytale

[finite charm]

Survival Games would be awesome to have come back and be big again hope that happens I loved playing old Mc mini games. I

MMOs will take the longest to come out too tho as making an MMO that is engaging and good is tough as hell

[finite charm]

Im pretty sure thats already a thing as they said that the way single-player works is by running a server of the world so allowing others to connect to it would be quite easy, and if it ever comes to steam it would be even easier

[undone creek]

True, but i do think it will happen within the first year honestly. espically because its a new game im sure it will happen within the year i mean people have had over 6 years to plan it lo

[undone creek]

whats the name of it?

[finite charm]

That is true, but actual implementation can take just as long depending on if they have a big team or not, and the real problem comes with keeping players active and logjevity of the server itself, if an MMO only has 10-30 players its not gonna be able to live too long

I feel like alot of people planning MMOs have a unrealistic vision in the first place but even if they make it there will probably be a bunch of people making them and it will be flooded. But hopefully that means the best will survive who knows, wynncraft is basically the only good and long lasting MMO in mc over the years and that took years to gain a real player base and many more years to get to the spot its at now

I just hope people dont try and do a pump and dump sorta deal but that feel inevitable in this day and age

[formal burrow]

The only MMO that ever got close to Blizzard's level of success was actually Hypixel Skyblock

Keep in mind, when you make an MMO you are demanding people play for hours a day as if it's a job, willingly

for every wynncraft there is 1000 servers that failed, or in other words, for every wyn there is a failure

[finite charm]

Ya i feel like MMOs will be what people want to make but most wont be able to get it off the ground and those that can will make it 10ft at best and then only 1 or 2 will make it through because of the mechanics or community it has behind it, but keeping those things fresh and engaging for players is not easy

[formal burrow]

When Hypixel Skyblock came out it drained pretty much the entirety of the whole network. I have no idea what that gamemode is like today but I am guessing it's still massive

[undone creek]

honeslty i think remaking world of warcraft would be crazy in hytale

[finite charm]

Its probably the biggest game on hypixel still ya, idk i only really do housing stuff on hypixel now lol

[finite charm]

Maybe but I hope people have more creativity. But I would love an MMO that has as much of a world as WoW or Wynn. That's probably my favorite part of any MMO RPG is the world building

If I had the time I would design an open world rpg based on my own world building stuff I do for dnd

Maybe one day I will but I gotta find more stable income before that ever happens, but a dnd esc mod would be cool af, not turn based combat tho, thats the lamest part of dnd for me

[undone creek]

how about a DND server in hytale lol i mena i know thats kinda weird cause each campagin is different but i think it could be very interesting?

[red venture]

World of Orbis

[zenith mist]

MMO games as whole are basically impossible todo unless you got time, money, and a good dedicated team lmao

[finite charm]

It would be cool if players could run a campaign like you have a dm and a party they can create and invite players to, or just an adventure map of sorts everyone can play, maybe even a survival world like a SMP inside the server for players lots of possibilities

[finite charm]

Not necessarily, alot of early Mc games were made with a small team and abit if money like a few thousand dollars and the time really just depends on how good or large your team is and the quality of the games

[zenith mist]

Well being a server owner i know that talent its more important then spending xd

Acquiring talent for your team and retaining them is the most important

My team isnt exactly comprised of average people though, I have an Ai engineer, with years of experience along side a dev with 11 years of experience and a professional map and level designer..

Which is not what most people have for server stuff :/

Im keeping my project under wraps till its time but based on the stuff I see people talking about I know my server will be a hit. I've been taking notes haha

And I just recently got a 3D modeler that also has professional experience which im lucky to have

:/ average servers are going to have it rough against people with good teams but I was also a team that wasn't there and grew over time:/ so who knows! Either way hytale = quitting mc for me

Lol

[brittle estuary]

Yeah, the ceiling for what's possible seem to be significantly higher in Hytale than MC

Quality and Attention will be the most valuable things for successful projects

[finite charm]

Not to be rude but this sounds like a tech bro/ stocks bro talking about a new acquisition that sounds amazing but also never amounts to anything. I defiantly hope you do find success and if its an RPG type of game I will definetly try it out if it ever comes out but I also have alot of doubts for games that 1 sound too good to be true and 2 want to keep secrecy for reasons such as fear of other stealing the ideas or whatnot

[zenith mist]

Xd im not into stocks xd

I just love creating memories and experiences

[finite charm]

No but it sounds like someone who is trying to get you to invest 😭

[zenith mist]

I guess you have a point

[brittle estuary]

Strange to announce that secrets are being kept, but I don't blame anyone for keeping their ideas to themselves until they can be created

[zenith mist]

I look at things with a analytical veiw

I also cant retain talent without pay

Its just pretty plain to say just that.

[finite charm]

I wish you luck in your endeavors zenax, I am just skeptical of things sometimes to a fault. I am skeptical of hytale in alot of ways too but I do have hope as well there is footage of the game yk and it looks decent so far but like Simon has said alot there is a bunch more work to make it great

[zenith mist]

Yeah modders are probably gumma fix alot of the bugs

Its gunna be like cyberpunk 2077

[finite charm]

Hopefully not as bad as 2077 tho

[zenith mist]

Some mods became so good they became apart of the game lol

[finite charm]

That game was advertised as a fully functional game and they just lied lmao

[zenith mist]

Yeah xd

Its good today but back then...

[finite charm]

Ya launch was rough

[zenith mist]

Looked like a private dev build not even a game lol

[finite charm]

Lol true

[latent spindle]

Guys I will try make a mod similar to redstone but i will not name it redstone because minecraft. I will call it white dust mod

[abstract radish]

👀 im hyped to dive into developing Ngl

[fierce fulcrum]

There is a post in the community fan art about a group of people thinking about that if you're interested

[latent spindle]

I want to make plants vs brain rots in hytale

[fair sinew]

I've been trying to get people to invest for 7 years 💀, I get it though, all us server owners and even mod makers are just talk until we can officially execute on the ideas

[gleaming portal]

Hopefully they pull an early Mojang and hire those modders who made their game better if this is the case

[neon tree]

^ till release i doubt they hire much more

They got already a talented team, old hytale devs and also mod developers from minecraft, to hire more is just shooting themselves in the foot.

Sometimes its better to run a small team and have it synchronized with the task they need todo then a big team that just stripes of task

[sterile dove]

"Too many cooks in the kitchen" more cooks wont make it faster, probably what riot did, they poored a lot of money and it still didnt progress enought

[shell oasis]

Question are you going to give them percentage of the project when it come out and start monetization?

[crude lion]

what language is this game made in any way

[amber vine]

Mostly java

[crude lion]

wait really idk why i thought it was like c# or something oh wait they went back to there previous game engine didnt they

[west elk]

You're both correct. The Client is a custom engine written in C# and the server is in Java

But we won't be able to touch the client with mods. The server will be responsible for all custom content

[crude lion]

oh thats soo cool

[exotic viper]

I'm very excited for this, it's an area Minecraft should have worked on and yet did not

We've been starting to already gather a team for a MMORPG server, a team of 8 so far !

[rough widget]

I'm starting to believe I don't know what the term MMO means by its use in this channel lol

[formal burrow]

For every Wynn there are 1000 losses

I'm just gonna start an HCF cause that's easier than replicating plain factions

[leaden zephyr]

Good morning y'all

[leaden zephyr]

Client is C#
Server is Java

[devout cipher]

good morning

[errant cloud]

good morning

[rough widget]

bad morning 😠

[wheat vale]

annoying morning

[digital knoll]

Is there a common language for mods, or do you just inject into the executable at runtime?

Lua might be nice?

Also hi.

[leaden zephyr]

You will only have plugins iirc. With that you can basically change anything.
So java first and maybe a scripting language later, i dunno. We will see!

Hi!

[digital knoll]

So there won't be any client side API, like mini maps or extra debug info for mob health or metadata. Is that a we don't care about that right now or it's not a consideration at the moment?

[wintry holly]

no client side mod support

[digital knoll]

I know they're trying to rush a usable build, which is great... but having a client side API for even changing UI might be super nice for minimap or helper mods for structures.

[leaden zephyr]

Yeah no client side modding iirc.
Everything will be made server side but you will have many choices to change a lot of things with that. There will maybe be limitations, but which we don't know yet.

[wintry holly]

most of the game is run on the server, not client

[leaden zephyr]

They want to prevent security issues, cheating and so on

[wintry holly]

only limitation simon has mentioned with that is no custom shader support

[leaden zephyr]

^ That we know of yet.

[digital knoll]

Oh but my graphics card is so hungry for polygons, how will I enjoy the trees if they're not fully ray traced ( sarcasm obviously )

[wintry holly]

i dont get why people enjoy the ray tracing packs though

all the blocks look like plastic

[digital knoll]

Wait since when have minimaps and schematics been considered cheating. Doesn't creative mode like give you whole paint brushes, that's a bit weird.

I've always just considered them a way to back up structures and not get lost on unfamiliar servers

[wintry holly]

he means so people can't cheat in servers, not that those are cheating

[digital knoll]

Yeah but if you make nice things impossible you make it impossible for everyone not just the bad guys, is there a way to allow it somehow from the server side?

[wintry holly]

you can use whatever mods/plugins you want in singleplayer, you just wont be able to carry those over to multiplayer

[digital knoll]

True, I guess that makes sense.

[wintry holly]

i think the fact cheating won't be as easy is more of a bonus not the reason for it

it's moreso just to not have a bunch of mods that have to be manually downloaded when joining a specific server

[digital knoll]

And how does licensing work with custom textures and models, can you use any textures as long as they have an open source license or do you need to own them explicitly and outright even if they're licensed under something like GPL or CC0?

[leaden zephyr]

My recommendation is wait and see.

We don't know many things yet.

[digital knoll]

The time frame for "will let you know more" is near the end of the week right, I remember hearing that somewhere.

I remember hearing some suggestions for community moderation as well, is there a place where articles can go that people might look at for ideas on those kind of topics?

[true socket]

they’re not allowing client modding but they’re trying to make server plugins be able to integrate with the client well and be as powerful as possible, custom UIs will be possible though of course not to the extent of an actual client solution

[digital knoll]

Wait are they aiming for good fast or powerful, cuz I seem to remember a triangle from economics class.

[true socket]

all 3 I guess

they’re trying to make it possible to do most of the common stuff that would have needed client mods in Minecraft using just server mods

[digital knoll]

Also wouldn't anything that gets sent from the server incur a latency cost, or are the behaviors predefined and presented post initialization as part of the handshake for joining the server.

[wintry holly]

no one knows

[digital knoll]

Yeah sorry I'm just excited

[wintry holly]

i mean i wish i knew

[leaden zephyr]

Understandable, we are all excited

[digital knoll]

No like as programmer I want access to their API so I can start porting it to Lua, which is an entirely sane and normal behavior and not at all Java trauma.

[true socket]

it will be a mix of both, all custom code will be ran on the server and of course have some latency, but they’re also trying to make the client as directly customisable as possible from the server. for example, I think you will be able to send GUI menus to the client which will run actually on the client, or new blocks and entities etc

[digital knoll]

I remember coding mods back in the day, and I just never want to have to use modloader again.

We can't go back to that era it was so Wild West

[true socket]

you won’t be able to do this

only the server will have an API exposed, and it’ll be a Java api so like any JVM language

[digital knoll]

Of course you can you can bind execution to a text file if you're stubborn enough, you just create the Lua environment and pass execution to an initialization file then process any callbacks. Where's the impossible part?

[true socket]

you want to use a client API right?

there isn’t one

[digital knoll]

Yeah but you just said that doesn't exist right

[true socket]

yes, it does not

[digital knoll]

Yeah that's what I was saying, plus it would be harder to decompile C#... wait actually are we getting source code for any of this?

[exotic viper]

I've already got a team of Developers and Designers. From the knowledge we know right now, we won't be able to work on any server plugins till the game is officially out correct? Just that server plugins will be made in Java.

[true socket]

all closed source on release. server on release will be unobfuscated and in java so easy to decompile. server will become shared source a few months after release. client will always forever be closed sourced. client is in C# and compiled AOT to native so like good luck decompiling

[dusky plume]

When it launches, you can decompile the server and read the code

[true socket]

yeah there’s no API or docs or anything out currently you’ll probably have to wait for release

[exotic viper]

Yeah that's what I expected.. it would be amazing if we could work on things to begin with, but I imagine a lot of stuff is subject to change as well as wanting to release everything on Day 1

That's a shame but understandable

[dusky plume]

you can start a lot of work whit server code

first step is learn how the server works

[digital knoll]

I mean sure as long as all of the stuff can be made on the server side it really doesn't matter if we never get a client side API, as long as the clients optimized and we don't end up with a OptiFine situation it really won't matter. Though I imagine someone is eventually going to deobfuscate the client, there's far too many people looking at it for someone really strong not to eventually want to know how it works.

[exotic viper]

Yeah we already have! Stuff like phpmyadmin and pelicanpanel has been setup. Primarily server infrastructure to start, shortly models I'm looking

[dusky plume]

yea just basic stuff, ive started already building my project by doing the web and some prototipes of systems in java

[pine hornet]

From how I understood it: Singleplayer is like Multiplayer. So we will be able to create plugins day 1. but in order to launch a public server we will need to decompile the server code to prepare for when they officially launch the source code and enable dedicated servers

[dusky plume]

backend and apis for db

[exotic viper]

Oo best of luck, my team is looking to try and recreate a popular anime called SAO in Hytale

A lot of work planned... but if we can do it, going to be amazing

[dusky plume]

I think from release, you can use the modding tools to customize the world, NOT server. Server modding wont be allowed unitl api is released

[digital knoll]

That depends we still don't know what the callbacks are going to be, it might be a waste of resources in time that could be better spent working on a model or a library rather than expecting an API that you don't have in your hand and isn't guaranteed to exist outside of pre-alpha even after we get the API. Plus adding compatibility for a separate engine on top of that just seems like needless complexity.

[pine hornet]

Interesting. Thanks for the clarification

[digital knoll]

Okay actually I take it back, we either need VR support baked into the client or we need custom client shaders. Cuz this sounds really cool!

[pine hornet]

My goal is to mod VR support. But let’s see what’s possible

[digital knoll]

Can you though, I would assume that the wisdom of running a large server comes with the realization that "I wish we had this I didn't have to do this" isn't a thing that you don't have control over anymore?

[dusky plume]

Good luck my man

[exotic viper]

I would love VR support for this project, however just the idea of it is amazing! I'm currently going through Hytale HUD and comparing it to SAO HUD and seeing what we need to either add or remove

[hidden glade]

Then you will have working listeners connected to useless services. We don't have any specifications, we don't even know if we will have an api at all

[exotic viper]

Appreciate it mate! Loved the anime from a young age and I'm glad I've found others who are as passionate as I am for this

[wintry holly]

no, you can decompile the server source from day 1. it's not obfuscated, it just won't be open sourced until a bit afterwards

[dusky plume]

thats what i mean, you can read but not mod anything

[pine hornet]

For legal reasons, yep

[wintry holly]

you can mod it

same with minecraft, it's not open source but we can decompile it to make mods. although minecraft is a bit more complicated since it is obfuscated (until the next version, where it will no longer be obfuscated)

[digital knoll]

True, but the way you phrased it made it seem like it would be one to one which just doesn't necessarily have to be the case. Just in a simple example Minecraft treats the player entity differently, and reserves certain callbacks for it. That might not be true in this engine though and it might just use a generic entity with generic callbacks and inventories etc that are just empty for non players, we won't know until we get an API documentation list

[wet vine]

How???

You'd have to integrate Minecraft's nightmare of an API with hytale

That sounds so utterly painful

[viscid wren]

Yeah right now I've been working on a factions plugin, and a lot of my queries to read the database are in a separate class that isnt dependent on the server API. So I assume when hytale comes out, they will have a way to listen for commands, and ill change my file that listens to all the commands to work with hytale, but the logic reading the database will stay the same

[wet vine]

I suppose but that's high level systems and not content

[viscid wren]

For the server API for plugins yes

I've never written mods so I have no clue what the difference will be there

[wet vine]

I expect UI, control, entity and block logic to be alien

Also data storage and updating actors

Minecraft does many things. Not a single one of them correctly.

[viscid wren]

why not just use sqlite 😅

Postgres?

[digital knoll]

I mean as long as they expose direct access to a way to instantiate databases and manipulate them it really shouldn't matter, I think if it's SQL light it can even just be a file right?

[wet vine]

PLEASE!!! Tell me hytale is going to be using a entity component system

Lmfaoooo

[viscid wren]

If you cant create sqlite files and listen to basically all of the same events the spigot/paper API allows, servers wont be that good starting off

[digital knoll]

That's actually a good question, how are they expecting resources to scale and be shared? Do they get instantiated by one server and then all the other servers point there for look up?

[digital knoll]

Honestly if we get direct access to entities people can build 100 component systems around that, it's just a matter of setting standards and making sure that people can access and license each other's code correctly... the hard part is always licensing, Minecraft did a pretty terrible job of that.

I think there's actually been a couple proper scandals regarding people stealing each other's texture packs, I hope nothing like that happens with this engine. If everyone is required to have an open source license and everyone can use each other's stuff that would be ideal.

[wet vine]

I'm currently planning on a mod that includes lifting every idea from every mod that has ever added a redstone block

So yeah, MIT is very cool

[sharp river]

Hello everyone, I have a question for all of you, if you would be so kind.

A reddit thread mentions that a mod like minecraft's "create mod" would be impossible to make for Hytale, because modders will not have access to the "renderer" or "client" side.

as said there:

Mods that require the renderer, or any part of the actual client (so client sided mods) will not be easily possible in Hytale. Practically impossible, unless the developers let us modify the renderer or the client.

It'll be incredibly difficult to ''crack'' the code because it won't be in a readable format, they using a C# feature called NativeAOT. Which compiles the C# code into something called native machine code, basically what a compute reads.

If they don't want us to touch the client, overtime they should add more tools where we can modify parts of the client.

Is this true? If so, what are hytale's limitations with modding we can't add moving blocks/items? why do mods like "Create" need access to the client?

If someone could please explain it for me (someone that doesn't understand anything about modding), I would be very grateful.

Thanks!

So, would a mod like minecraft's "create mod" be possible in Hytale without "client" access?

[digital knoll]

Likely you can embed animations into the model, and assuming that you use different node states for the activated and disabled entities or blocks very likely yes. Though as with the create mod, it would be a lot of work to develop and maintain between versions if the API changes.

Also I don't believe create requires client-side even in Minecraft so I don't see why it wouldn't be possible regardless

[sharp river]

thank you very much for your reply 🙂 this makes me feel better about what I can expect for Hytale!

[digital knoll]

I don't work for Simon though so I don't so I don't know for sure

We just have to wait for the API

[rough widget]

Everything can be done without client as long as the bridge from the client is built. Meaning the API must be made by the Hytale devs

[sharp river]

That's exacly what someone who works for Simon would say tho...

I understand! as long as Hytale gives us the tools to "control" the client "from" the server, everything can be done from the server side

[digital knoll]

Not everything, certain things are still locked behind shader support. But most things do have workarounds yes

But I do wonder how the team would Implement secure shaders, or if they're just going to be restricted to client side downloads.

[rough widget]

So if something is not possible initially the community will just have to ask for the Hytale devs to allow the functionality. But there's literally no technical barrier unless you're talking about the literal renderer (and even that Hytale can create an API so the renderer can apply changes depending server stuff)

[digital knoll]

What about something highly specialized like a 4D renderer or or GUI Parallax features

You can't expect them to implement everything, I mean I'm a dreamer and even I'm realistic about that much

[sharp river]

I don't know what the "renderer" means... it's what enables block movement and such? like when the create mod uses "contraptions"?

sorry for being so ignorant, but I would really like to know what the renderer is and it's function

thank you guys for being cool and explaining stuff!

[digital knoll]

So okay quick tutorial "render" would refer to the client side action of taking the data given to you by the server and rendering it, so if the rendering for how a water wheel should spin or how a belt should move is embedded into the textures or models then that just gets handled by default, something more fancy like the visual effects from vintage story is it good example of what can't be done since it changes the colors and interpolation of models dynamically through a shader. But most of create and it's plugins doesn't do any of that so it should be safe to say it's doable.

In terms of the animations those can also be baked into the models and have alternate versions for their off states

[rough widget]

I vision it as a incremental thing. The game will come out as a very small thing, and with the years and suggestions of things that many modders actually need Hytale will grow its API. Niche things IG would be left behind. So technically 100% things possible, practically 99% things possible

[sharp river]

so, let's say that Hytale devs allow blocks to have a "rotation" property like direction, and speed, and that is interpreted by the client. that would be an "api" for allowing that "rotation" behaviour without modding the client, because the "rotation" already exists in the client, it's just a matter of modding the server to use that API. is this how it works?

[digital knoll]

Then things like an item on a conveyor belt can just be treated as entities which is guaranteed to need to exist as a part of the mob system, or at minimum the ability to drop items and just recycling that renderer somehow. All very doable

[sharp river]

this is fascinating

[rough widget]

But what if, they just don't secure the shaders. Like the server can literally send any shader they want and the client just applies it to the stack without asking haha

[digital knoll]

Hard to say we won't know until we know, without an API to point at it's difficult not to say probably and kind of just Wave Your Arms Around looking for something to point at? But in my experience you can't build an engine that does what they want to do without having these features somehow, so it should be possible with texture atlases and models.

[digital knoll]

That's how we get Bitcoin miners Luan, and those are bad.

[rough widget]

Not to the Bitcoin miners

[sharp river]

Okay, I believe I understand. We must wait for the release of the game to see what we can work with 🙂 I thank you all for taking some time to explain these things to me

[digital knoll]

Well actually as long as you don't expose the network it could possibly be just fine, though you could still ruin somebody's graphics card if you programmed a bad shader even by accident.

[rough widget]

I was just going to ask. Idk enough about shaders to know their feature set, what are they allowed to do. I just imagine they could cause glitches, maybe some wrong usage of the GPU? Are there exploits that can be done with shaders?

[digital knoll]

Well yeah since shaders run directly on the graphics card improper usage can result in weird memory access or even code execution through out of bounds exploits, it's not something I normally speak about without qualifiers though. Since condensing down every single edge case into a short message isn't something I'm really qualified to speak on. I'm sure once we have an API to look at we'll know more about what is and isn't secure, I want this engine to be as secure as possible and I'm sure the dev team does too.

[rough widget]

Interesting, didn't knew nothing about that. Shaders have always been a thing I know I need to get into, but always leave for another time.

Proper sandboxing is needed then. Well, it's just a matter of (a lot of) time the team starts working on a shading API

[digital knoll]

Honestly if we had a set of default shaders that we can switch between by string ID we could get most of the way to custom rendering modes without exposing any of the weird issues that comes with custom shaders, something like a default and then per player x-ray would be able to allow servers to prevent players from seeing certain blocks based on their ID per player, then maybe a separate one for that rounding effect that takes an integer as an argument for how round do you want the world to be, as long as they were open to expanding the list based on player feedback and needs I could see them never having to implement custom shaders at all.

[trim juniper]

Hello, do you know when the Java API for plugins will be available?

[digital knoll]

No, I don't think there's been any word on it yet.

[trim juniper]

It would be cool if he released the API before the game's launch, so that we could already start making plugins, or think about future plugins, or even see if Minecraft plugins could be converted to Hytale easily enough.

[digital knoll]

To be honest there might not be an API at first launch, we're super early in development and deliberately creating hooks might have less priority than releasing something that can be play tested. Though I can't speak with any certainty, I'm not privy to any insider information.

[rough widget]

Maybe not the code itself (how would we test it anyways), but some sort of showcase of the signatures and project structure yeah

[digital knoll]

It could take them a couple weeks before they're able to get through the backlog of bugs from play testing and actually build a full documentation document to have it released

[rough widget]

Maybe no docs, just a quick rundown of class references without comments or anything and a screenshot of a mod structure

More to start planning and stuff, instead of actual coding. I think it was mentioned already that documentation will be published sometime after anyways I think

[trim juniper]

By the players and for the players: we, too, the dev community, could help spot bugs or suggest improvements ❤️

[digital knoll]

Honestly once we get a server executable with as many people as are interested in this project I would be surprised if we didn't have a fully decompiled binary by the end of the week, the client less so since without client side mods less people will care. But I can guarantee we'll see at least one decompile before the game is fully launched, since having access to debug functionality on the client side is just so useful.

[viscid wren]

Hopefully the class references aren't too complicated to understand, sometimes some code bases can be

[rough widget]

They're Java devs, no C++ devs. So method names should be legible and easily understandable

[digital knoll]

You misspelled verbose

[viscid wren]

Every game is like Minecraft with mods if you mod it enough

[rough widget]

Ah I now C why your name is RedundantC

[digital knoll]

Actually that's to do with my tendency to license my code and assets under CC0, but I can appreciate the attention to detail.

[rough widget]

Honestly tho, they have to teach C++ devs that they aren't writing math formulas lmfao

[digital knoll]

Public domain just makes everything easier, here's hoping the licensing system for this game is simple and easy to use.

[rough widget]

Ahh nice!

[digital knoll]

Oh that's not a language thing, a functional programmer and a class programmer will write completely different code in the same language. It's not about whether or not the tools are expensive, but more so whether or not you know what a hammer is or if you'd prefer to just put in nails with a screwdriver. If that's the case your language can't really save you can it?

[rough widget]

Big fan of FLOSS also. I'm talking in a GrapheneOS phone rn

[digital knoll]

Nice

[digital knoll]

Honestly the biggest mistake I see new C++ developers make is learning C first, there's about a dozen depreciated features that you have to unlearn when you take that route. It's easier just to teach people what they should do and circle back to the silly options you'll never use in the last 20 minutes of the course, but I've had plenty of professors that have been of the opinion that if I learned that way so should everyone else and it is just an opinion thing.

[storm glen]

Your professors are making them learn C then C++?

[rough widget]

I've some pretty opinionated visions on how someone should learn programming myself haha.

But talking about C, from the very (thankfully) small experience I've had with the two languages, they're both completely different beasts.

It's not the same sense of a superset language like in TypeScript definetely

[storm glen]

Its like comparing a dog to a wolf, related sure but so far apart in what they become its become it's own thing adapted to different problems.

[rough widget]

Haha, in my university the first and second year was C and C++ half taught (but that can be said of any language my university supposedly teaches)

[storm glen]

At the game dev school I teach at we used to be require covering C++, then jump right into C# for Unity, and quickly jump into Unreal without enough training.

Now its just C++ and then into Unreal.

[digital knoll]

Well it's a different intended experience C is a very bare metal "I compiled to assembly" language whereas C++ gives you access to things like smart pointers and dynamic the allocation and proper classes, it's closer to what we were consider a programming language C# is similar in that way but more geared toward object-oriented workflows... they're different but in so much as they were designed for different things a different groups of people who had different values and programming concerns. Under the metal they compiled to about the same assembly code, minus the optimizations that are done to keep things fast.

[rough widget]

And the problem with C being taught as a first language is that it took the fun out of coding from my colleagues. People I knew they would be good programmers resigned from the career

[digital knoll]

Well that's the filter though isn't it, if you don't enjoy hitting your head against hard problems until they give up and solve themselves programming isn't for you. Anyone can write code, but a programmer has to know how to structure it in a way that not only makes it execute correctly but makes it maintainable to other programmers.

[leaden zephyr]

C is based

[digital knoll]

And cross-platform!

[storm glen]

Not everyone learns the same, some people wanted the hardest problems to start, some people want time to get comfortable with just typing a basic script.

The teacher usually has their own preference for learning curve speed.

[rough widget]

Completely agree on your point but disagree on your interpretation. Languages aren't programming. Programming is logic, as long as.you master logic you can master any language.

Languages like C introduce a lot of noise in the process of learning programming

[storm glen]

There's "I want to learn to program" and then there's "I want to make X thing" so, those people usually have their heart set on different goals.

[digital knoll]

Yeah but C probably isn't the best language to start people off with, there's all sorts of issues with type casting and memory management. I think if you're going to pursue programming or art it's the kind of thing where it's complicated enough that you have to either start young when your brain is malleable, or be willing to start on smaller projects but don't necessarily tickle your desire to create the next greatest most coolest thing in the whole wide world. Like any skill you can move from watercolors to shock and then to pencils fairly easily, it's just about nurturing the fundamental underlying skills that make you good at your craft in the first place.

[storm glen]

Yeah well, that's basically what I was saying needs to be done.

[rough widget]

Lol what, you did a 180° haha. Yeah I agree

[digital knoll]

So I make the distinction between programming and coding, in that code or rather the act of creating code is coding, programming and thus being a programmer is logic and control flow. The difference is you can create a program in any language, including weird things like scratch or even just on a piece of paper, but to have it executed the specific code and language needs to be selected based on the use case. You wouldn't build a voxel engine in scratch right?

[worthy pier]

When will the game be released? Is there a beta?

[digital knoll]

In the same way someone can write code as a programmer, but the act of programming is defining the control flow and logic constraints. And then the code is written that executes those constraints

[digital knoll]

Not yet no maybe later?

Check in #announcements

[storm glen]

Release date announcement is Friday

[digital knoll]

Oh nice

[rough widget]

No new student will build a voxel engine. I think we can agree that putting unnecessary noise to a learning process of something more fundamental which is programming (logic), is only doing damage to the students

[storm glen]

In game programming they have the 2nd year students make a OpenGL graphics engine with physics after only 1 year of learning with only about... maybe 3 to 4 months actually spent on C++

Every school is gonna make students do something different quickly depending on industry board feedback.

[digital knoll]

Not necessarily, I'm not saying that programmers and coders are different people. I'm saying that using the terms to mean different things is helpful when speaking, which is after all the goal of language. When you separate the logic of designing an application and the act of writing down the individual system calls necessary to perform the actions as defined by the program specification, you end up in a situation where students will first write their comments and then assess how they can use those comments to write code. When teaching I think that's really helpful, because it teaches you to think with your comments and not with your ide autocomplete.

[fierce fulcrum]

You're mixing a lot of different to my understanding
Programming and Code are as you said are two different things
Code is a way to program but Scratch for example it can hardly be considered code, but it's still programming (same thing with any turing complete system, you can program a turing machine but not really "code it")
Programming is not really logic it's the idea of being able to configure a system to fullfil a task
Maybe that was clear in your head and I just didn't understand sorry for the bothering in this case

Actually the "programming" preexist code by far, the first computer needed to be modified to change the computation and the algorithm

[rough widget]

I mean I'm not talking about me or a personal thing, but more from the people I saw. I personally am a programmer from way before the university (not a Scratch kid, but something similar), and due to that I've helping friends and strangers learn programming and I recognize who has grasped the logic and who hasn't, and it was disheartening seeing people who were grasping the logic far better than others have to leave for stupid noise

[digital knoll]

Yes I'm familiar with lovelace's work, it's an interesting story for sure

[fierce fulcrum]

(it's not only lovelace, you've got real computer implementations that relied on this implementation during the WW2 and even after that)

[rough widget]

Programming is logic, programming is the giving of logical instructions in and ordered way to a machine

But yeah for the other parts you're right

[fierce fulcrum]

"Logic" has a strong definition in computer science it does not fit very well what you want it to means

[rough widget]

No, it does

[fierce fulcrum]

And they can be unordered actually

[digital knoll]

Well yeah but isn't that the point of higher education, to expose yourself to new cultural influences and disciplines so you can come to a decision as to whether or not you enjoy something or would rather pursue something else? I would think forcing yourself to do something you don't like because you like the paycheck would lead to a pretty miserable life?

[rough widget]

They are all ordered, you're thinking too abstract

[digital knoll]

Yes but hers was the first, although I forget there was also a practical implementation she had read. Regardless the various Turing machines are as you said quite interesting.

[fierce fulcrum]

No really not ^^
You can't use the word logic alone in theoretical cs it does not mean a lot of things (actually a "logic" is an object which consists of rules as to what it can represents)
I agree that this is a list of instructions though

[rough widget]

Lmfao it's what I said

So yes, it does

[fierce fulcrum]

No i mean a program can be a graph easily and then you don't really have "ordered instructions"
and yes i think abstracly because what you're talking about is abstract

[fierce fulcrum]

Really sad that i can't send link to what i mean :p

[digital knoll]

Isn't logic in computer science defined as the control flow of a predefined abstract closed system or something like that, I remember it was something crazy turse and unusable. Completely different to how people use it in normal conversation, which is fine for technical completeness. cs majors have their own language they speak, there's nothing wrong with having specialized definitions for a very complicated field like computer science.

[fierce fulcrum]

We did a lot of strange programming thing to fullfill different tasks and play different role
in the end the "file view" of a program really does not encompass everything

[digital knoll]

Oh you're talking about a state machine!

[rough widget]

I don't think you're really understanding. A list is ordered by definition, a program can't be random nor unordered by nature. You're talking about CS, so as I since what I'm talking it's one of the first definitions they give about algorithms in any programming/CS course

[fierce fulcrum]

That's one way to view it yes !
But you can have infinite state machines and then the mind view kinda break easily ^^

[digital knoll]

I would say unordered list, but some people call it a hash map so it depends.

[fierce fulcrum]

Yes ? what i'm saying is that it's not always a list of instruction but can still be considered a program or code

[digital knoll]

Yeah dude that's a different thing, you can't just say logic and expect people to interpret state machine. That's why we use different words they have different definitions, but I can see where everything got mixed up.

[digital knoll]

Don't State machines normally have transforms though, like the logic in that case would be to evaluate the state machine using the transform and then set the new state to be the output of the transform? That is itself the explanation for what logic is.

[rough widget]

Like talking about CS while talking actually about a niche thing they can only interpret... like

[fierce fulcrum]

it's "one way" to define a "Logic" but there are others

1st order and 2nd order logic do not work well with the state machine view, maybe they could be represented with one but really you don't want to do that

[runic glade]

Does anyone know how the plugin system will work in Hytale?

[digital knoll]

Not until we get the documentation

[fierce fulcrum]

Java plugins + assets (they call that mod) for the rest we wait to see the doc released

[fierce fulcrum]

(you kinda shifted from programs to "logic"s but that's really not the same thing)

[digital knoll]

Well yeah but at that point looking at solving for a unified theory of computer science, and by all means please leak that entire paper on a huge Discord server I'm sure plenty of people want to read it 😆

[rough widget]

Everything at a lower level the electrical level, at the lowest level the LOGICAL level can be always interpreted as a list of ordered steps. That's the definition of a program

[fierce fulcrum]

That's really not

Your definition is an engineer definition that works well for what they are doing

[rough widget]

Yes it's

For CS

Exactly what we are talking

Like you're talking about your own specific definition

[fierce fulcrum]

No they are much more to CS than you seem to give credit for

[digital knoll]

Well but programs are the accumulated form of the logic used to describe what the program should do along with the code that allows the computer to interpret your intention, programming is there for in this context a way to express the logic rather than the specific code used to convert the intention into machine instructions.

[rough widget]

I don't know what CS you have in your mind. There's only one type of CS and only one definition for program and logic

[runic glade]

The only thing to do is wait then.

:v

[fierce fulcrum]

But i guess we don't speak from the same point of view there
My cursus is mainly theoretical so my view of what cs means is really far from the engineering point of view and that's not bad, it's just we don't use this science to do the same kind of things

[digital knoll]

Well the theoretical and practical Sciences share the same world, they just don't always agree on how to describe it. If your perspective of computer science is theoretical and based in terminology, your perspective will obviously differ from someone who works on networking and hardware and is deep in the trenches worried about how they're going to create a patch cable rather than whether it's called RJ45 or ethernet. From a practical standpoint it doesn't really matter, obviously if your theater of study is primarily talking to other scholars you're going to be much less lenient about definitions then someone who is only interested in the practical benefit of teaching someone how to patch a cable installation, or in this case how to program.

[fierce fulcrum]

I guess to see what i mean the best wikipedia page would be "Formal Systems"

[digital knoll]

Yeah that's too much I do enough of that at my day job, I don't want to read any more documentation

[fierce fulcrum]

:p

[fierce fulcrum]

(Btw i'm kinda of a scholar)

[digital knoll]

Yeah I can tell

[fierce fulcrum]

Sorry to have broken your discussion i just wanted to add some spices at first ^^ '

[digital knoll]

No it's cool we don't have any information on server plugins so you literally added more than we had before, you're fine.

[viscid wren]

Pretty sure the only thing we really know about plugins specifically is they will be .jar files

[wintry holly]

Lol

[dusky plume]

why not just .txt

[wintry holly]

Txt isn't as cool

[dusky plume]

or .md

[sharp mural]

Question, anyone know if hytale have concept of tick? in minecraft 20 ticks = 1 second. and in mods when can work with updates with ticks, in hytale are the same?

[brittle estuary]

Slikey says it'll be 30 ticks per second

[sharp mural]

ok and same idea, every tick its update of blocks, fluids etc

[brittle estuary]

Probably

[rough widget]

All games have that concept btw, some games separate the render ticks with logic ticks. 30 is like a good standard for a logic rate

[sharp mural]

Ok, I can working with this.

yeah I know @rough widget , But games can naming with other or not update all in this ticks, games update every 10 ticks render, and movement every tiick, etc etc

but, we supponse same minecraft, every tick, update blocks, propagation status etc

[dark cape]

well you can also just modify the server source code if you're making your own server to have more than 30 TPS

[sharp mural]

mmmm I think its nont good idea modify TPS

[daring lodge]

i gotta process 20k entities in 33ms now

[sharp mural]

where?

[daring lodge]

for tnt

[sharp mural]

ah ok mine, not hytale

[daring lodge]

yes hytale?

[sharp mural]

mmm you wannt process 20k entities of tnt in hytale? hytale have TNT? xD

[dark cape]

why do you need to process entities (are blocks entities or something?) and why the exact amount of 20k in 33ms

[sharp mural]

and why yes XD good question why this exact data

[daring lodge]

might be 10k or 30k entities idk it varies

[sharp mural]

and why in 33ms and not in 50ms?

[daring lodge]

a tick in hytale is 33ms

[dark cape]

30 TPS = 0.033 seconds per tick

[sharp mural]

ah ok so u want process 20k entities in 1 tick..WOW

yea hyeah xD

[dark cape]

why entities though

[sharp mural]

minecraft CANT process 20k entities in 1 tick xD

[magic stirrup]

If not, someone will make a mod for that

[daring lodge]

for some version of tnt

[sharp mural]

if hytale can process 20k of entities/blocks in 1 tick. OMG

[dark cape]

would be nice if you could just say why you need entities instead of being vague

no offense

[daring lodge]

no, i mean literal processing velocity and path of 20k entities

[dark cape]

but again why entities though

[daring lodge]

i do wanna see how they transfer entities between chunks and keep it multithreaded

cuz tnt would be entities

[sharp mural]

ok you are testing multithreading processing velocity, ok

[dark cape]

but if you have 20k tnt, and you plan to explode it all in the same tick, that's the same as exploding one big tnt that is 20k blocks in volume

[daring lodge]

no thats not rly the point, its for advanced tnt cannons, the velocity and direction is important

[dark cape]

there's still optimizations to be had no matter what you end up doing. you shouldn't need to process 20k separately

[sharp mural]

and IN THE SAME TICK its more literal, tnt not explode all in same tick in minecraft..because u fire 1 tnt, and when explode, in next tick, propagate to other, and explode, etc etc, so, not in the same tick

I think, u never process 20k in same tiick of TNT, not in this case. because u cant manualy fire on 20k of tnt in same tick

[dark cape]

exactly

any bulk operations should be done in bulk (treated as one) and as asynchronously as possible

[daring lodge]

u can because the fuse is 80 ticks normally

might not do the same concept as minecraft to keep it fast

[dark cape]

it would be hard to create a scenario where you have 20k unique operations happening

and in fact you shouldn't be doing or needing to do 20k unique operations in the first place

[sharp mural]

but, how in hytale survival or creative, how u put fire to 20k of tnt at same tick, are imposible, and in mods...WHY u need and how u manage this. I think its imposible case..

[daring lodge]

since its server modifications i can just dictate what happens and use less

[sharp mural]

annd more important. IF u putt fire 20k of tnt at same tick. in next ticks, u produce, 20kx5Blocks expansion in air(minecraft), so u update in next tick, 100k updates. I think, imposible to update 100k entities in same tick

[daring lodge]

most of it isnt used for breaking blocks but giving other entities high velocity

[sharp mural]

I think u need in bulk as @dark cape say, not need 20k blocks in 1 tick, its manually imposible

[agile elm]

I think he was referring to the game itself servers could be different

[latent spindle]

I want to know if u can stack mobs in a 1x1 hole

Will hytale have cap entity cramming

[viscid wren]

I mean even if they don't have an achievement system built in you could just track if a user has achieved this in your servers database/files

We don't know if color codes will be a thing

I assume the server will be able to know when a user moves though and you'll be able to respond to an event when it happens

[viscid wren]

The game is rendered in chunks right?

[rough widget]

Should be, yes

Idk if they talked about it, but can't think of other way

[viscid wren]

That should make creating a factions plugin relatively easy then

[fierce fulcrum]

Even without, you could create them virtually ?

[solemn brook]

why are you just trying to make a minecraft servre in hytale

why not do something that will actually integrate with the existing stuff and similar themed

[prisma agate]

U can easily do it without, just get 2 points to form a box, if some1 breaks a block that is inside it, cancel the event (or whatever the API would be)

[viscid wren]

True but now I likely wont even have to do that

[fierce fulcrum]

I really don't understand those arguments

People are coming from Minecraft with projects in their mind
The game is made to be modified
So there is no really ''exisfinh stuff and similar themed'', you can totally overwrite that if you want.

[prisma agate]

I don't see how chunks make it any easier/harder

[viscid wren]

Idk exactly what hytale will have to make it unique, so I want to make something as soon as possible to be one of the first servers out there. Im sure ill come up with ideas once I get a feel for more of the core mechanics of hytale

Also I just like factions and have some unique ideas to make it more fun

[viscid wren]

Well in minecraft they already have coordinates, so then I dont have to calculate chunks virtually

[fierce fulcrum]

Hytale will also have coordinates

[prisma agate]

Coordinates are not chunks

[fierce fulcrum]

And the rest is just basic arithmetic

[viscid wren]

Chunks have their own coordinates in minecraft, if hytale does the same then I just store that

[fierce fulcrum]

No but I mean just divide coordinate by 16 and take the integee part and boom you've got chunks

[viscid wren]

Oh sure yeah I could do that, but if I can access to that in the plugin API, then its one less then I gotta do

[prisma agate]

That does reduce the amount u store by half, but it complicates the math (still simple tho) and it also restricts to being chunk aligned

Whoops I typo-ed chunk and it blocked my msg lol

[fierce fulcrum]

This is nothing x)
The point is really that this feature being or not in the game changed literally nothing in the end

[viscid wren]

Yeah true I guess it would be ab it simpler than im really thinking but 🤷‍♂️

[hasty peak]

do you sleep? i check in here to talk about dev stuff and your here always. 🤣

[leaden zephyr]

@viscid wren He was in fact born here

[dark cape]

he slept about 7-8 hours around 13 hours ago

[viscid wren]

Yeah I just wake up early

[hasty peak]

why do you know that?

[dark cape]

it's not hard to do a quick ctrl + f -> from: user -> scroll down

especially not when you're curious and have autism (it's an autism trait to like random information)

[viscid wren]

Yeah I made a quick plugin in Minecraft to detect when a user changes chunks, what's convenient is the playermove event let's you get the .to() and .from() values and then from both of those you the chunk and X and Y of that chunk

[granite saffron]

dam says who, if true that would be amazing

[lavish niche]

I wonder which dotnet version the client is going to be running

🙏 it's not some mono or framework crap

[spice sluice]

If you make something good, it always gets stolen.

If it's not good then I think you dont have to care much anyway

[compact crypt]

I don't think there's much to do about it
Anything that your client can see can get dumped into plain models and textures
I guess the best they can do is to punish servers that steal assets with the consequence of being banned from the official server list

[viscid wren]

If someone steals my plugin ideas I'm suing them

[cursive granite]

dont be like that

[dark cape]

what plugin ideas? why would anyone steal them

[arctic mist]

I dont think they will be punishing servers like that, there is a big gray area on internet assets. Taking sides would be something that they would end up wasting resources in. They could kind of "encrypt" it but would put a load in the client and as well, if someone want to get them they will.

[viscid wren]

I'm joking 💀

[cursive granite]

me to

[viscid wren]

Cause my server will be just that good

[leaden zephyr]

[shell oasis]

lol

[arctic mist]

Guy was about to patent the Hytale plugins, by any chance would you be interested to work in Nintendo? /s

[shell oasis]

wait so they will be stealing inside the game?

no copyright for ppl

[leaden zephyr]

Nintendo is typing...

[viscid wren]

I'm going to start commenting on Minecraft videos "this is just hytale with less features"

[shell oasis]

what if someone made some new monsters for his server? ppl just going to snatch that and put it on there server?

[arctic mist]

If someone is dedicated enough, even with some type of protection of the local files, he can "copy" the model by hand if he is interested enough. Probably coded behavior would be impossible to clone but they can mimick it if they know what are they doing

This is not something form Hytale itself, but in all the game industry we have cases like this. If someone wants the asset that bad, he will get it sooner or later

[viscid wren]

I wonder how long its going to take till we get a Minecraft to hytale world converter

[normal ocean]

The game can add some kinda of encryption
Tho, that can be bypassed like mc bedrock

[shell oasis]

i wonder how long its going to take till we see all mc players switch to hytale

[shadow solar]

Hello guys I want to create mods for Hytale, I know little about programming, should I start learning Java and C# or just C#

[viscid wren]

Can't wait till everyone plays hytale because it's objectively better than like 20% of people still play Minecraft and say "hytale is just Minecraft with extra mods" 10 years from now

[arctic mist]

For Hytale? Java, for programming? Learn the concepts first and then pick up a fun language

[leaden zephyr]

Server is java. So learn modern java. Welcome btw!

[arctic mist]

I can see the "Hytale Modpack" in cursedforge or something like that

[viscid wren]

What little amounts of programming do you already know?

[dark cape]

and for java I recommend making your first minecraft plugin

[viscid wren]

Omg 😭

[viscid wren]

That's what I'm doing to improve my Java skills before hytale comes out

[dark cape]

no matter how confused just keep doing stuff and thinking about it until it clicks

"oh that's what a class is", "oh that's what void, static, etc mean"

[leaden zephyr]

I dunno if it's just me but java is fairly easy

[arctic mist]

Jumping from 0 to Minecraft plugin is like a toddler learning how to fly a plane. He will be better learning basic concepts like OOP and general Programming stuff like conditional, cycles, logic etc

[shadow solar]

Like little programs on Python with basic logic

[shell oasis]

how hard is it to make a plugin and can some one explain is (plugin) like the database or the info ground to create a server?

[dark cape]

paper's API and years of community help makes googling solutions (and tutorials) quite easy so I disagree with whatever preconceptions you have

[viscid wren]

Definitely learn some Java and play around with some Minecraft plugins

[dark cape]

though java in general is quite verbose which may confuse someone more than I'd like

[shadow solar]

Understood, why on the blog appears C# as well as Java?

[leaden zephyr]

C# is used for the client. You cannot create any client side modifications tho.

[viscid wren]

I think some of the client stuff is c# but the server mods and plugins are Java

[arctic mist]

Agree on the API and community help in form of videos and tutorials. But in the end if you want to grasp how to develop in something, you should know the basic concepts. Knowing how to create a plugin helps creating a plugin, but not knowing how or why works will give you a lot of headaches later

[normal ocean]

There is easier languages out there but yeah, tho i guess that depends on what is the context of the code

[dark cape]

I started with skript and taught myself java by making a plugin, which did the same thing that my skript scripts did

[shadow solar]

Okay, thanks everyone

[dark cape]

I can agree I guess. maybe it's my ADHD or whatever else but it just seemed.. I guess harder, for me, to learn this "correct" way. much easier to just jump in and learn from my own mistakes. builds intuition if anything

[leaden zephyr]

If you have any questions down the road, i'm sure you can ask here and some gigachad will help you 😄

[dark cape]

but I will stop telling people to just jump in. perhaps I will propose both options instead

[shadow solar]

With the great community building up for years now, I agree

[normal ocean]

If you have programming knowledge, jumping in is the way to go most of the time.

[dark cape]

but I'm curious if telling them to learn/use skript first is helpful or hurtful

again, might just be my ADHD and whatever else, but I don't think I would be where I am without having found skript first (that is, I don't think I would've learned java when I did)

[arctic mist]

Yep, not saying your way or my way is correct, there are a lots of ways of learning something. But the most "stable" way I have seen people learning how to develop something (outside Minecraft Plugins) is from the basics of programming. If you have strong bases, you can switch to any language/framework you want without having to re-learn concepts or modify your knowledge.

But as well, if someone is on the "do first, ask later" learning path, that way would work 100 times better than learning the concepts

[storm glen]

Learn in a way that's fun, though I would learn to make a basic game in the windows console then jump into a Java tutorial for a plugin.

The thing is your own retention for learning is something you gotta self learn and sustain. But get over the barrier of not finishing a project.

[daring lodge]

will the hytale server jar have hooks for everything

[storm glen]

No one knows any details yet.

[leaden zephyr]

That depends who you ask that.
Skript is actual useful for people that want to create something without the overhead of learning a programming language, which is nice.
But for example when you do it the hard way and learn java, you actually have many jobs you can apply for as java is widely used in the industry.

So simple as that, if you don't want any overhead? Tell them to use Skript. If they are curious about programming and java overall? Go for it.

[carmine idol]

I also started by just jump into minecraft plugins and know nothing about OOP LOL.
But I think right now there are much more resources you can learn and know how to started, it should be much easier to get started?
I totally agree learning the basic is very important, because it will be the foundation of what you are going to build on.

[storm glen]

Wait. How can you mod Minecraft without understanding Classes? Isn't it all classes.

[dark cape]

well I mean you don't have to know what a class is to create and use one

[storm glen]

Well you can know something and not know its name as well.

[leaden zephyr]

A person who thinks all the time
Has nothing to think about except thoughts

[dark cape]

you don't have to know much about what a method is, you just need to type public static something to create one

you'll definitely be abusing it but if it's your first time using java then who cares

[carmine idol]

true! actually doing it is more important than thinking about to do it

[arctic mist]

Its like driving without knowing how the engine works. You can drive? Sure, can you fix your car or modify it further? Maybe with the help of a Mechanic

[shadow solar]

By the basics you mean the syntaxis, data types, variables, etc?

[carmine idol]

this is so me

[storm glen]

Bean what do know about classes?

[dark cape]

well not just general programming basics but OOP-specific basics too. especially static abuse (is that even OOP-specific? is that just a general language thing?)

[shadow solar]

I see

[arctic mist]

Basic as logic, algorithms, paradigms, design principles (Not really necesary) etc

[hollow hollow]

No OOP applies to a lot of languages, and is just a paradigm of thinking mainly (nevermind you edited it)

[dark cape]

I learnt java just to end up using skript still 💀

[carmine idol]

what is classes

[dark cape]

rhymes with molasses

[leaden zephyr]

Object-Oriented Programming. It's a widely used paradigm.
Nothing crazy to learn or to understand there actually. It's a quite simple concept.

[dark cape]

a class is basically just a file with variables or methods (java's term for functions)

[leaden zephyr]

It often sounds more intimidating than it actually is, like most things do.

[storm glen]

I dont mod Minecraft. Anyone got an example for poor bean.

[shadow solar]

Are there any Youtube free tutorial recommended for this basics?

[hollow hollow]

Does anyone want a peanut?

[dark cape]

class Example {
    // your code goes here
}```

[undone creek]

to learn java?

[leaden zephyr]

There are plenty tutorials in any language you can wish for. Java is widely used.
Just open youtube and prepare stackoverflow like a good ol' programmer you will become.

[shadow solar]

Like the basics of programming: logic, algorithms, paradigms, etc.

[undone creek]

just look up java tutorial on youtube lol

[dark cape]

but don't follow any tutorial that is longer than an hour

[undone creek]

there' hundreds of them you will fin

[dark cape]

DO NOT click the 8 hour tutorials

[leaden zephyr]

Yes. Click the 30 hour ones instead. xDDD

[dark cape]

please for the love of god

[dark cape]

💀 💀

[carmine idol]

W 30 hours

[storm glen]

A class is like saying "Sword", and it has all my functionality of a sword.

But I want more types of swords with different properties like better damage.

So you make a child class that Inherits from the parent class (Sword is the parent).

The child may be like DiamondSword.

It has all the same functionality but on top of whatever itself contains.

[shadow solar]

lmao just found a 12 h tutorial

[dark cape]

anyone who doesn't already know OOP will probably only be further confused and intimidated by this explanation
at least, that's how I used to feel

[leaden zephyr]

Yeah bro if he is new he will not understand what you have written xD

[storm glen]

Not much I can do in a short time lol

Just think of it like a family tree

[undone creek]

i mean..... i think its a pretty good explination

[dark cape]

I personally believe someone learns best by first doing (since the concept itself is simple and easy), before thinking of it or hearing it explained in words

[arctic mist]

A representation of an "Object" with its attributes and behaviors (methods)

[shadow solar]

So like grass pokemon: bulbasaur, etc.. grass pokemon would be the father

and bulbasaur inherits its properties

[dark cape]

but maybe that's just me

[arctic mist]

What is an Object? Well depending on how much abstraction you want, can be something as easy as Cat or a Player

[storm glen]

Close but we cna get way more complicated like different abilities being their own classes.

But you may have all the evolutions of a Pokémon under one parent class.

[shadow solar]

I see

[storm glen]

For example the parent of Bulbasour might say: Evolutions: 3

[arctic mist]

Yes an no, you have your class Pokemon, with an attribute called Type which be grass, fire, water etc.

When you create an Object of your class Pokemon, you can create a Bulbasaur with attribute grass

[daring lodge]

oop is evil

[carmine idol]

this make me realized I know OOP but I also don't know OOP

[storm glen]

When you learn OOP, and where it sucks you adopt Composition into it.

[dark cape]

"I only know that I know nothing"

[leaden zephyr]

It's not rocket science lol

[storm glen]

See if told you bean might know some OOP

Just not the name

[dark cape]

I usually have to build intuition to learn something. kind of like how you never forget how to ride a bike after doing it

[leaden zephyr]

To understand recursion, first understand recursion. Wait.

[arctic mist]

The further you abstract your classes can be really nuts. For example you can create an interface called Evolutionable which can be implemented with pokemons that Evolve, and know each pokemon is a class:

class Pikachu extends Pokemon implements Evolutionable {}

[dark cape]

you can tell me time after time "riding a bike isn't rocket science" and explaining how it works but I will never actually learn how to ride a bike until I do it myself physically

but of course it also depends on your explanation and my existing knowledge/intuition, if you use familiar concepts then I will already have the underlying intuition needed to understand

[hollow hollow]

That's why you must google recursion.

[arctic mist]

But again, the abstraction of each class is really up to the design of the system and what you want to do with the system itself

[leaden zephyr]

Did you mean: recursion?

[arctic mist]

What is recursion? -> Google Results: What is recursion? -> ...

[shadow solar]

I see thanks everyone

[storm glen]

Have I ever told you the definition of Recursion...

Its doing something over and over again, expecting things to change.

Or thats just insanity.

[leaden zephyr]

Do not let that see Nintendo, they will send you a love letter xD

[arctic mist]

Life Update: I owe my house to nintendo*

[dark cape]

but iteration isn't recursion?
(recursion doesn't explicitly imply doing the same thing over and over)

[leaden zephyr]

True, they are not the same thing.

Iteration uses a loop to repeat the same code. Recursion is when a function calls itself with a smaller problem until it finds the answer.
Just a example, i don't know if you can describe that any easier to understand also i'm not a native english speaker.

Recursion really needs to make it snap inside your brain to be able to understand it, after that it's easy and you will think damn... Easy!

[dark cape]

you explained it good 👍

[shadow solar]

Okay so I was looking up for Java tutorials, but they dont appear to explain algorithms, paradigms, logic, how to structure a problem, how to solve a problem, etc... they go directly to Java

[leaden zephyr]

Do you search for english tutorials or for your native language?

[shadow solar]

English

[leaden zephyr]

I send you some links in dm

[shadow solar]

Thanks

[arctic mist]

Search for OOP tutorials, its really not with programming languages and rather theoric, but if you can work with that, when you touch Java it will become like writing your OOP concepts in English

[shadow solar]

Thanks

[storm glen]

Can't a man make a far cry 3 reference

[dark cape]

I guess just this once I can let your insanely innacurate far cry 3 reference slide

sorry I'm not quite satisfied with saying "insanely accurate" but I wasn't sure how else to put a play on the word "insane"

[storm glen]

😂

Ok so maybe for each iteration of insanity you have to eventually break out of the loop and return back to normal.

[leaden zephyr]

[prisma agate]

Don't worry about paradigms, just solve the problem in the simplest most straightforward way

OOP is mostly dogmas and bad advice

[leaden zephyr]

^ Yep

[storm glen]

Getting a product out > Coding things perfectly

[dark cape]

hence I just use skript for my minecraft shenanigans 🙂

[leaden zephyr]

You can always refactor later but you can't refactor something that never shipped.

[prisma agate]

Well code quality is important (and often linked with product quality)
It's just that OOP is not what I'd consider good quality

[shadow solar]

Hahaha sounds like what happened to Hytale, poesy

[dark cape]

nobody's publishing anything within their first year or two, maybe more, of using java

oh but they specifically said "getting a product out". I interpreted that as "making something", maybe I am wrong for that

[prisma agate]

Not sure what u try to say with this statement

[leaden zephyr]

^ That's not true at all. I came from C and still do C, i learned Java in literally a day and shipped a mod on modrinth in just 3 days.

It's honestly a crazy statement

[dark cape]

definitely a mistake on my part. I have no idea what the numbers look like. I am just speaking from my experience and what I've seen from my friends

most if not everyone I talk to daily didn't publish anything in their first year (of programming - not specifically java)

[hollow hollow]

I think that all depends on how ambitious someone is.

[arctic mist]

Tech debt is typing...

[dark cape]

no worries, I think I just read things wrong and mistook the context. I'm probably getting too tired to think properly

[storm glen]

Tech debt pays the bills

Now it may not pay it efficiently...

[stray pasture]

Why not?

[dark cape]

feel free to read this part too

[leaden zephyr]

Well thanks for the interesting chat. Good night y'all.

[main moon]

💯 💯 💯

You cannot have technical dept if you dont have any people

Like who are you scaling for?

[willow acorn]

technical loan

[tired scarab]

Are there any news about the server software (prob. written in java) so it should run on a linux server?
And when will the server software be distributed?

[arctic mist]

They have said that the server will be a Java server. As how should you run the server, well that depends on you, JVM runs on Linux, Windows and Mac so you have some options to pick up.

When? Nobody knows

[prisma agate]

-# or FreeBSD

[dark cape]

We commit to releasing the server source code as soon as we are legally able to. Expect this within 1-2 months after release.

[tired scarab]

Ah okay thanks

But the server software will be available from the start right?

Or even before?

[glass crag]

is there any info on how connections to servers will be handled and what proxys will need to look like?

[viscid wren]

They said they wanted to have a feature that allowed servers to send players to another one without needing proxies like Minecraft

How exactly it would work they haven't explained yet

[true socket]

theyre not providing a proxy, only transfer packets

personally i prefer proxies but its fineee

[glass crag]

ohh that will be cool to just be able to intigrate it straight into servers

less control but easier implementation

[amber cape]

Less control yes but also with transfer packets i don’t know how fake player packets could work on this

With proxy you could atleast have full control on this but probably they’ll have something to counter that i guess

[glass crag]

depends on what we have access to, it could be the case we can interact with incoming packets earlier or something

so you can still do things like that

[calm mountain]

como esplico que ya eh jugado el juego pero recien saldra no se si sea el unico xD

[viscid wren]

Tmux is great because I can run a script to that automatically builds my java plugin then sends a command to my minecraft server that reloads it

[red venture]

Based on their blog post, it sounds like they’ll be shipping the compiled server from the start. Then later on they’ll be releasing the actual source code for it

[true socket]

what do you mean?

[amber cape]

Fake players packets for cheats generally

[true socket]

im not sure what you mean by fake players packets and how thats relavent to transfer packets

[viscid wren]

aghh I need to know when the game comes out

[arctic mist]

They anounce it tomorrow morning, dont they?

[viscid wren]

yes

[hardy sundial]

would hytale base also like minecraft on java ?

[viscid wren]

The server is going to run java yes

Lowkey yall Im thinking about making a lock picking plugin like in skyrim

[frozen oracle]

Yes

[viscid wren]

Should I make a raptor jousting game mode

[frozen oracle]

LOL yes

[viscid wren]

Thats the first thing I thought of when I saw that raptor the other day

[frozen oracle]

unironically that would be insane

medieval settings, knight armour, lancers, and then you have a raptor

[viscid wren]

I have so many ideas 😅

I want to see what the actual core of the game is like because im sure that will spark unique ideas

Like skyblock was probably a uniquely minecraft thing

[frozen oracle]

yeah skyblock worked cos of water/fire/obsidian

i'm sure there will be something, theoretically someone could mod a new block and have unique attributes

so boom there you go you have skyblock

[viscid wren]

Yee

I'm trying to figure out how to make donor incentives without making it p2w

[woeful depot]

I'm thinking it's much more easier than in minecraft

[viscid wren]

🤷‍♂️

Lots of cosmetics for sure

[woeful depot]

Can't wait to develop in this game

[viscid wren]

Same!!

[woeful depot]

Too many possiblities

[red venture]

In game cosmetics, titles, titles that also sync to your servers discord and possibly website/forums, special donor board in game and on website that lists them as a donor, in game pets

[viscid wren]

Titles? Like tags?

[red venture]

I’m not sure what it would look like in hytale, but a lot of mmo type games have titles you can select and have show above your character.

[raven crescent]

Van a ver Plugins de hytale?

Si hay tremendo

[viscid wren]

Ahh yeah hopefully we can do some stuff like that

Especially show health bars above players names

[red venture]

Seems like they are going to make pretty much everything possible

[viscid wren]

god bless the hytale dev team

[gleaming fulcrum]

is the game out?

[viscid wren]

No, the release date will be announced tomorrow at 10am

[vast belfry]

tmr we will know after 16 hours

[gleaming fulcrum]

Oh okay, thanks for telling me!

[compact crypt]

Just so you know it will likely be next year

Maybe january 2026

[tardy herald]

Release date announced tomorrow at 10 AM EST timezone (convert that to your timezone), and as explained in their twitter post that you can find here : #announcements, they made it clear it won't happen before 2026

[solemn brook]

I think im gonna setup internal infrastructure while I wait for Hytale to release

😄

[viscid wren]

Dont say it like that, it makes it sound so far away

Say "in little less than a month"

[red venture]

That’s what we’re currently doing. Getting our website, forums, etc set up

[red venture]

Technically they just said not before Christmas. Could still happen on New Year’s Eve (but highly doubtful 😂)

[solemn brook]

ah im just setting up internal pipelines

[zenith mist]

I have a userbase already lel

So im just gunna announce it as part of my own stuff within the network

[formal burrow]

we dont know whether he meant before thanksgiving the holiday

[tardy herald]

? We do know that he's gonna share the release date tomorrow tho, that's what I said, but yeah I doubt they will release the game before 2026 honestly

[jaunty umbra]

what is the end goal of the game?

[arctic mist]

The friends we make along the way /s. Honestly we dont know much about the lore/history or if there is even an end goal. At this point is just to have fun

[jaunty umbra]

thanks

[latent spindle]

Guys hytale will release next year

[keen pecan]

That's actually a little more than one month

[viscid wren]

Yeah that

Have we heard anything if we will be able to draw custom overlays on the map

[brittle estuary]

As far as I know the entire UI is customizable

[viscid wren]

Neat

[keen pecan]

Absolutely fire

[viscid wren]

I might have to buy 2 accounts just to test my plugins 😅

[keen pecan]

lol

[red venture]

Good thing they’re only $20

[keen pecan]

Gimme 20$, i'll help you to test your plugin

Just kidding of course

[viscid wren]

😅

I need to be able to test whenever I can lol

[keen pecan]

Yeye i was kidding lol

[boreal dune]

I'm getting the 70$ Ed. Cuz why not

Supporting a studio which deserves it

[magic nebula]

Turn off online mode

[viscid wren]

Will that even be a thing 😅

[viscid wren]

I would if I could

[magic nebula]

If not we can make it a thing

[zenith mist]

People forgetting what the contractor thats doing the gui said

"They are not months away, but weeks"

My guess latest new years

Or if they have breakthroughs

Christmas

But not before

[rose atlas]

Does anyone here know a reliable VPS hosting?

[west elk]

search from: resonantdimension vps in this channel ^^

[spiral marten]

Ovh

Reliable site, linode, digital ocean, nocix

[latent spindle]

Why u lying. U getting the 20$

[finite charm]

Only bums are getting the $20 basic edition

I hope gifting will be available with pre orders tho

[formal burrow]

thanks

[formal burrow]

If you're in Europe: Hetzner, Netcup, or Webdock don't bother with anyone else

if you're in the USA, OVH, AdvinServers, or Vultr who offer high frequency cores compared to DO and Linode

[rose atlas]

wow thanks

[formal burrow]

OVH has a $4.20/month VPS that has 8GB of RAM and 4 cores. They are not perfect but they are often out of stock

AdvinServers has Ryzens 9950X Ryzen VPS (not dedicated but they are marketed for high intensity game servers) but as of mentioning them in this server 2 days ago almost all of the plans have been bought up other than in Miami. They had a 1 ryzen core, 4GB of RAM for $6/month for Kansas City, a $30/month 24GB of RAM, 6 core Ryzen 9950X VPS that got snagged in less than 12 hours after I mentioned it here

[red badge]

👀

Nah I plan on getting the $35 one and will upgrade if I think its worth it. Im down to support the dev of hytale more than most games so i prob will

[formal burrow]

Also as a quick reminder, if you are in the USA, or anyone else here is in the USA, has a Paypal account, there is a 20% one-time cashback deal they have, which goes up to $1250 for a single purchase (you get $250 back at max). If there is an expensive annual plan you want to buy with Paypal, or some expensive equipment, make use of it, the catch is it's pay in 4 and requires a soft credit check. Since people appeared to be exploiting the deal to buy up gold and silver on loans and reaping the 20% cashback they changed it to one per person yesterday

[rose atlas]

im preordering cursebreaker

[rose atlas]

i dont do anything with credit checks.

[formal burrow]

That's fine, I am not even in the credit system myself as an American, I just got a secured card 2 months ago. Just to warn you, Hetzner sends collection agencies after you even for less than $1 in debt if you don't pay them (as reported on Reddit)

[rose atlas]

my credit score recently went up 59 points, nearly 700 score xD

[formal burrow]

There were likely people who exploited the 20% cashback loans to buy up silver and gold, it was free money, however I wouldn't wanna get banned from Paypal for using it even within their terms 😭 They are still honoring the 20% cashback to anyone who used it when it had infinite use

[rose atlas]

i don't even use paypal. or anything. i just have a bank. and that allows me setup virtual cards for online purchases so im not using my actual cc.

and if i wanna send money i use built-in zelle

[formal burrow]

That's fair, Capital One gives virtual cards if you ever decide you need a credit score. However you can't rate limit the cards

[rose atlas]

ye

[formal burrow]

Anyways, just look at OVH, DO NOT use a VPN when buying stuff from any of the server hosts or else you may trigger a fraud check

[formal burrow]

Also Namecrane (the people who run BuyVM) has a lifetime $75 email hosting plan I just got my hands on, which you might want to get your hands on. You do not want to host your email on a VPS because usually all these hosts will block the email ports

[river stratus]

Holy cow I’m so glad I saw this before it scrolled up, you’re a legend.

[rich solar]

What type of databases are you guys planning on using for your hytale pre-dev?

[storm glen]

Postgres

[formal burrow]

You are welcome! And remember if you're an American with a Paypal there is a 20% cashback deal that you get a ONE TIME use for... If there is any big purchase you need to settle that you know you can pay off and were going to make, they are offering that deal for the next week I believe. If there is any expensive equipment you've been looking to buy, the time is now, maybe other than RAM. The cashback limit is $250 cashback or $1250 spend

[compact crypt]

I'm kinda new in the plugin development scenario
If i wanted to save data for specific players i would have to do so with a database?

[formal burrow]

PostgresSQL is what Hypixel I believe uses. They are the easiest for scaling into multiple shards and are actually open source if I recall. MongoDB if you are afraid of SQL injections. MariaDB got purchased by a private equity firm. For very quick data that isn't too sensitive, use Redis, it's as fast as RAM

[rich solar]

I was planning on Postgres or RavenDB as I wanted to try it out. But was curious what other people methods were gonna be 🙂

[river stratus]

Depends on what you need to store, for how long, access types and frequency, and how much.

[dark cape]

for minecraft? no

[formal burrow]

MXRoute also is an option but they have done away with lifetime lifetime deals, now you have to pay $1/year on the new lifetime mail deals

[rich solar]

Sqlite if you are testing will help you feel the water for basic db's

[dark cape]

for minecraft specifically you would probably end up using PersistentDataContainer
but anything else, I agree with YuhBoiSNYNX

[formal burrow]

Also I heavily advise you learn Docker

[river stratus]

Just looked at this and they also charge a 248$ one time setup fee. Namecrane it is.

[compact crypt]

What's the standard for storage in minecraft? sql or that thing of persistentdatacontainer?

[formal burrow]

I bought a plan today however I just found they won't let you change your email on it (you might have to make a ticket), so make sure you put the plan on an email you can keep forever

[dark cape]

PDC for sure if you're going for a small project

[compact crypt]

Gotcha thanks 🙏

[rich solar]

You will see a lot of types. FlatFile YAML, SQlite file-based sql, external DB likes mysql, maria, postgres, and what code said

[dark cape]

I don't know/think you'd want to host hypixel with it but I haven't actually tested what it's capable of

[formal burrow]

You can also stack lifetime deals on Namecrane, so if you somehow use up your lifetime storage you can continue to stack it

[river stratus]

What are the chances that I can sign up with a domain email going through iCloud atm, then transfer that domain’s mx records over to namecrane?

[formal burrow]

You can... But remember, you should perhaps put that lifetime plan on a gmail in case that email goes down or you can't keep paying for the custom domain

I have made a ticket asking them whether you are allowed to change your email after the plan is set up

but I'll probably at most hear back tomorrow

Koofr for example has a 1TB lifetime storage plan but they do not allow the person to change their email on it once a lifetime plan is activated

The Namecrane plan has 25 domains, unlimited mailboxes and aliases

[river stratus]

Oh ok gotcha. I suppose I’ll keep a Gmail then.

[formal burrow]

You can always set that gmail to forward to a custom domain

[rich solar]

We ended up moving to Google workspace business for gemini. So I have a old custom mail host server just sitting waiting for use lol

[dark cape]

I can give you my PDC utility class with all my methods
to use it you just make an Enum class with your desired data:

enum Stat {
    MONEY(0), // 0 = default value

        ;


    // you can ignore what's below
    private final Object defaultValue;

    <T> Stats(T defaultValue) {
        this.defaultValue = defaultValue;
    }

    public <T> T defaultValue() {
        return (T) defaultValue;
    }
}```

[compact crypt]

That would be great to check out
I've been trying to learn what can be done with the plugins api and to be honest i've been struggling to learn how to use most of it

You have your utility class open sourced somewhere?

[dark cape]

yeah hold on let me update it

[formal burrow]

It's always handy to stash up on lifetime plans of anything. Some people suggest using custom domains for holding accounts for personal use because you have 100% control over them.

[rich solar]

Grandfather'd licenses are always great. The issue comes down to if the company fails and closes. Then you lose it no matter what :P. I have several grandfathered accounts with several systems but one is SpiderOak and I will never let that die.

[formal burrow]

BuyVM has a very good reputation and is profitable. Their owner is supposedly very accessible as well. That's why I suggest placing the lifetime plans in a gmail or an outlook

[rich solar]

Arent they the host that is based with Cloudzy?

[formal burrow]

They were recently bought out by them

[rich solar]

I think we rented a BSS from them awhile back since it was cheap per TB

[formal burrow]

Filen also has lifetime storage deals right now, they are profitable, they are doing one final BF sale

[formal burrow]

What's insane is that unmanaged hosting has gotten cheaper and cheaper

despite the economy getting worse and worse, and the cost of plans going up

[rich solar]

If only RAM would go back down as I need to get a new pc soon 🙁

[formal burrow]

Almost all the rented high ram plans on many of the platforms I see are taken, the dedis not entirely, but, I suspect people are using Deepseek or whatever which don't require GPUs

I don't think this AI craze though is entirely bad... People are at least trying to write code and are trying to use AI to rinse and repeat and try to make something that works

[rich solar]

I think the best thing to come from AI is the ability for people to create what they imagine without having to learn every little skill. Especially for hobbyist and newcomers. I love its use for asking practical questions for my knowledge instead of spending hours on forums where people are snobbish and just rude for no reason.

[solemn brook]

They use MongoDB

[formal burrow]

They use it for the Hypixel Auctions API

[solemn brook]

I think they use mongodb and redis for everything else then that then

[rich solar]

My father works at Hypixel and they use Sqlite only! -Joke

[dark cape]

learn java

[stray plume]

ChatGPT

[dark cape]

nah man not even jokingly

1. there are better coding AIs
2. don't use AI

[tired scarab]

Is there any info how many concurrent players a server can handle?

[rose atlas]

Nope but they doing testing afaik

But I expect itll handle a lot than Minecraft ever did

[tired scarab]

Thanks
Is it better to have cpus with better single core performance in the context of running a hytale server? I heard something about a Thread per world concept?

[formal burrow]

Yes. Even though tasks are run in parallel, for now, we only know that entire worlds are loaded IN PARALLEL and not parts of the same world/dim. If you can get your hands on a powerful Ryzen or a powerful i9

[formal burrow]

People should be using all 4. Get an openrouter account that gives you access to the chinese models that cost 1/10th to 100th. There isn't a single AI that can do EVERY single job out of Gemini, Grok, ChatGPT, and Claude. Claude Sonnet is known to be better but more expensive to use via the API. While an API that may cost 1/10th or 1/20th of Sonnet or Opus might need several attempts but you'd still save money

[spice sluice]

I'm quite sure you can do many common plugins using coding agents.

but thing is that models do not know hytale API, so it won't help with that part much I guess

[dark cape]

you're quite sure? have you actually tried it yourself? do you know java? do you write plugins?

[dark cape]

I don't suspect someone is going to want to hop into using a paid AI to vibe code a plugin

at least, I wouldn't

a free one for sure, I can understand using Cursor's free limit for something quick/small

but really I mean come on just learn java and write your own plugin 😭 🙏

[spice sluice]

you can try it yourself. Tell the agent to make some plugin for spigot for instance. Also depending on how well you describe it, I'm sure it will do it in couple of prompts.

I mean
Will the resulting code be good enough? Probably not that much.
Will it work? Probably yes if you give it a few takes

Also you can connect the agent to the actual hytale server to debug and test it in real time

[dark cape]

I've messed around with it, but not much in a serious or "I actually want a good result" way, to be fair

[formal burrow]

Grok Fast has a 1.8M context window is considered very cheap

grok 4.1 fast reasoning is $0.20 per mil input to -> $0.50 per mil output at 2M context token window

[sterile dove]

Ai's are good, but you have to learn how to use them just like a lot of people dont know how to use google to find stuff

[spice sluice]

still it would be noticeable bottleneck imo

[formal burrow]

Better than nothing while waiting

[tidal mauve]

any news or docs yet? i kinda expected the commonly asked stuff to be in pins, yet here we are

[formal burrow]

#discussion It wouldn't let me forward it but look at what I mentioned you in, that's all there is so far. There is nothing right now

[latent spindle]

Guys can I use AI to code a mod?

[formal burrow]

Bruh, the answer is yes but it will require you to spend A LOT more money and the model will forget quicker since none of the big 4 models or the cheap chinese ones have any training

[leaden zephyr]

Good morning y'all

[tidal mauve]

gives me 404

[viscid wren]

If you dont know much code you probably wont get far though

I was using it a bit but then I started trying to completely cut off using AI

[formal burrow]

You shouldn't, you should learn how to not completely rely on it but work with it

[prisma olive]

AI is a tool, you can't expect it to work for you if you have 0 knowledge about the task. You should learn the basics before using AI else you will get code that you don't understand and you won't be able to spot bugs/security issues and bad performance

[viscid wren]

It just gets in my way more than actually helping, every once in a great while if im really stuck I might ask it, but i've cut down using it a lot

[prisma agate]

AI is kinda bad, can't even do tasks I'd consider extremely basic (at least the free ones, I doubt Claude is that much better, maybe it can pull of the extremely basic tasks, but I doubt any more than that)

I do use perplexity tho to do research bcz googling has become so bad

[latent spindle]

Yooo I have an Idea.. Since this is an RPG game. can we have a Boss Party Vote Plugin? if Vote reaches 100 it summon's a Vote Party Boss.

[fierce fulcrum]

Well you'll certainly be able to do something like that 🤷

[leaden zephyr]

[hollow tapir]

The last time we voted onto mobs things turn towards a full out republic movement... like cool but no, not again

[latent spindle]

no this is a server plugin

[tribal valve]

I can vaguely remember minectaft servers having drop partys for each 100 votes orso using voteifier

[glad dew]

yo are Hytale plugings and mods gonna be in java ?

[viscid wren]

Yes

[glad dew]

are we gonna have access to an api official at launch ?

[robust lance]

Hopefully sooner 🙏

The devs said they are working on the guides and references

[viscid wren]

They said there are some legal issues with releasing an API or something, but we should be able to decompile the server code anyways

It was something weird like that but we will get an API at some point

[tidal mauve]

can always just patch java stuff directly until api is made

[viscid wren]

Not the biggest Java dev, so I hope that will be simple to understand, I can only really make plugins because of the Spigot API, idk how I would go about it if that didn't exist

[tidal mauve]

id say depends

like java and c# are very flexible due to how they work

[fierce fulcrum]

well as there is the whole "no client mod everything goes through the server", it might be much more complex than what we've used to

[tidal mauve]

i mean that just means all the logic happens on the server and now you have only single place to worry about

[fierce fulcrum]

i don't know exactly what's the server setup will be because maybe the server run c# and give bindings to a java software which loads plugins

[tidal mauve]

if it runs c# then you can just mod in c#

[fierce fulcrum]

They already said the c# will be kinda obfuscated because of how they compile it

[tidal mauve]

il2cpp?

thats cursed but if they say itll be opensource then im ok with it

[fierce fulcrum]

Okay, now I get it.

So the client is simply not going to be easy to be modded and we will not support it - we don't intend to truly prevent it with some kernel-level anti cheat solution but when we compile the client we use something called ".NET NativeAOT" which basically compiles the C# code down to native machine code just like C++ does it. Reverse engineering this is extremely hard and not modding friendly.
Just a portion of that is a preparation for preventing wide-spread hacked client cheating but it won't prevent it.
Eventually - one day in years - Hytale will come to phones and console. We don't want all the modding effort to not carry over to that. There is no client modding on these platforms and by locking this down early we are setting the direction right early on.

If they have a similar setup for the server i guess they use the compilation workflow

[tidal mauve]

well as long as its not rust itll work fine

[fierce fulcrum]

x)

[pseudo pasture]

Server Code won't be obfuscated so using a simple decompiler like JD-GUI will let you look at the code

[fierce fulcrum]

We don't know that for sure, it really depends how they assemble the server
We know the Java part will be unobfuscated but i did not remember them saying the server is pure 100% java

The plugin binding will be in java that's all we know iirc

[tidal mauve]

ngl working with java from other languages is big pita

except maybe kotlin or other JVM ones

[fierce fulcrum]

🤷 we can speculate a lot but what i mean is that we're sure of nothing

[tidal mauve]

yep

gonna be fun figuring out that stuff when it launches, but i do hope we will get at least some headsup on how it gonna work before the game goes live

wanna prepare the servers infra and stuff

[pseudo pasture]

We commit to releasing the server source code as soon as we are legally able to. Expect this within 1-2 months after release.
In the meantime the server is not obfuscated, so you can decompile it easily.

[viscid wren]

Yeah same I want to be able to hit the ground running with some plugins

[pseudo pasture]

from what I understand the entire server will be open

[keen pecan]

i'm gonna do a speedrun

[tidal mauve]

which mod you plan making?

[keen pecan]

I will be developing plugins

[pseudo pasture]

Aren't mods and Plugins prettyy much the same in Hytale?

[tidal mauve]

different name, same thing

[viscid wren]

But the question is from there, how hard will it it be to actually use the server code, and listen to events?

[keen pecan]

From what i understood mods are meant to only add assets

[viscid wren]

I assume mods will be sending assets to the player and plugins will not be

[tidal mauve]

so which one you plan making, so i could beat ya to it

[fierce fulcrum]

(that was not what we were talking about)

Okay so i guess it's purely java then

[tidal mauve]

🙃

[viscid wren]

Am confused then

[pseudo pasture]

They will definitely have a bunch of endpoints for all kinds of events that they already use internally for the server to work. you could just expand on those is my guess

[keen pecan]

who knows

[fierce fulcrum]

We were talking about the possibility of the server being a mix c# / java (which is technically possible and wouldn't be that strange)

[viscid wren]

Interesting, didn't the default Minecraft server make this a bit complicated to achieve? That's why things like Bukkit/Spigot/Paper exist

[keen pecan]

One thing is sure, the first plugins i'm gonna be releasing are gonna be open source

[fierce fulcrum]

Minecraft has no event system internally

what they do is each function / entity has function that are called when some actions occurs

which is not exactly the same

(from what i remember at least)

[pseudo pasture]

Yeah spigot/bukkit etc kinda do the first step of finding the endpoints and creating the APIs for you, I would think Hytale will already have these natively and also use them since their background is Spigot development

[fierce fulcrum]

yeah would be odd otherwise

[tidal mauve]

i kinda like mixins more

[viscid wren]

Yeah from everything they're saying, it sounds like that's what they want to do

[fierce fulcrum]

even the minecraft setup is weird even if you don't want people to extends

[tidal mauve]

just hooking onto existing methods and stuff

[keen pecan]

Events are introduced by Bukkit

[fierce fulcrum]

that's what we said above

[keen pecan]

[leaden zephyr]

[pseudo pasture]

I doubt there will be a mixed code-stack on the server, especially since C# and Java are super similar there would be no use-case for this

[fierce fulcrum]

No war today

[keen pecan]

Anyways, they should be making public the release date in about 5 minutes right?

[tidal mauve]

yep

[pseudo pasture]

Yeah

[keen pecan]

Ready to see January 2026 🔥

[pseudo pasture]

My guess is end of february 2026

[dusky plume]

its happening

[keen pecan]

oh god please no

[rich solar]

If only they were faking us out and release was actually today 🙁

[dusky plume]

14 jan

[fierce fulcrum]

impossible

[dusky plume]

mark my word

[rich solar]

No duh

[arctic mist]

The purchase page would be dead within minutes

[rich solar]

The website would be dead haha

[fierce fulcrum]

it's only been like 2 weeks they got the game and not even one they got all of the assets

[leaden zephyr]

TAKE my money

[pseudo pasture]

What version are y'all getting?

[leaden zephyr]

Biggest like 3-4 times

[fierce fulcrum]

well it's christmas and i want to offer myself a gift

[viscid wren]

2 of the standard so I can test my plugins lol

[fierce fulcrum]

oh crap true that is an issue 🥲

[keen pecan]

Thank god i have like 5 friends that are getting Hytale, i have a lot of manpower to abuse

[pseudo pasture]

damn didn't think about that actually

[rich solar]

Depending on how information goes I will be getting 1 curse and 1 basic or two curse

[fierce fulcrum]

don't know if we're gonna have this data today though

[viscid wren]

Hopefully I can actually have 2 instances launched on my pc at the same time

[arctic mist]

You just made me realise i will have to buy 2 as well. Well one standard for test and the main one with the top version

[pseudo pasture]

they are all MC devs so they know all the struggles of testing plugins so hopefully there is a mode for that haha

[viscid wren]

Yeah I dont have a lot of money so I would get the highest version but Im fine with just buying 2 standards

[tidal mauve]

ill get what im given, 99% sure hytale wont accept any of my payment methods

[fierce fulcrum]

I mean it might be easy to have a not so official instance just for local play and test your plugin ? 🥲 x)

[rich solar]

[viscid wren]

Jan 13th early access

[leaden zephyr]

JANUARY 13, 2026

[pseudo pasture]

i mean thats how I test my MC plugins so lets hope haha

[leaden zephyr]

So close

[dusky plume]

so clos

[tiny veldt]

close

[keen pecan]

where are you guys reading that 😢

[dusky plume]

X

[leaden zephyr]

pre-orders open December 13, 2025.

[viscid wren]

twitter @strange ether

[fierce fulcrum]

i think discord is having some problems x)

my discord lag so much when i go on the annoucements channel

[tidal mauve]

so i only have two days since launch to work on plugins lol

[keen pecan]

i have never used X, i have no idea how the posts are organized, i'm seeing the last post dated 2019

[tidal mauve]

and then work week starts aaaargh

[lapis zealot]

op

[viscid wren]

Pre orders Dec 13th

[lapis zealot]

where did the post it

[pseudo pasture]

Nice!

[leaden zephyr]

x(dot)com/hytale

[rich solar]

I hate that you can’t see replies without having an account smh

[pseudo pasture]

I sincerely hope they move off of twitter soon

[prisma agate]

What's the minimum specs, and player scaling for server hosting? (If this is known)

[kindred mist]

hyptale

[prisma agate]

I have a 4vcpu and 8gb vps, I can probably dedicate half of it to Hytale, I can also self host, but my internet bandwidth is bad, and I'd assume that's the most demanding part

[scenic cliff]

I hope the server core will be released on the same day as the game

[dusky plume]

it will