server-plugins-read-only

[sudden heart]

I was hoping to experiment with it, if I get a copy of the game itself.

[compact crypt]

They mentioned that client code is not going to be released though, so you might get some limitations with it

[sudden heart]

Already know the client is closed source, but I would think the packets themselves would be open-source since I read that the server itself is supposed to be open-source anyway.

[modest burrow]

Sick so we’re gonna have to dig our through src of client to actually make a good anticheat

Cuz ik Hytale ain’t making one lmao

[hearty iris]

Simon did an interview recently talking about anti cheat actually. Said it wont be on release but is planend for future

[sudden heart]

Client is going to be closed from what I read.

[modest burrow]

Yea just means

[compact crypt]

Minecraft has a serious problem with cheats that every server has to manage so i'm not mad at hytale for not doing an invasive kernel-level anticheat

[obsidian creek]

So this game gonna be Serverable? Like Minecraft Server? with Bukkit and spigot?

[modest burrow]

It won’t be

[compact crypt]

Yes you can add your own java code to your server

"Question 48 ]:

You said we will always be forced to the newest version of the game, no version selecting. What about the servers, will they be able to run custom versions?

Slikey (Tech Director): We are releasing the server as shared source - you will have the source code with no obfuscation and all our comments in it. You can run very heavily modified versions of the server. If you really want to and you have the technical skills, you can make your own Hytale server software. I know some Rust programmers are already warming up the keyboard. You have to make sure you keep the protocol compatible with the latest version of the client though."

[hearty iris]

I think you wont even need a bukkit/spigot alterntive, the game is built to be able to have plugins from the get go

[obsidian creek]

I have 2 Minecraft Server right now, Maybe its a good idea to start Learning Hytale Server.

[compact crypt]

As a lua fan I'm planning to make the java code work with LuaJ to make my own lua script plugin

[obsidian creek]

And also they use blockbench, Hope they also have a system to import my model there.

[hearty iris]

They will

[modest burrow]

Learn java atp bro

[compact crypt]

Yes it was mentioned that you can export your model as a .blockymodel or something like that for exporting models

[obsidian creek]

They also have Hytale Online Server List lol, the game is not released yet and they have server list.

[compact crypt]

Well my objective is to make an "open source" contribution for anyone, so other people that don't know java but know Lua can actually do their own lua plugins

We'll see how it turns out though

[hearty iris]

Tbf if you know programming fundamentals well enough to do lua, java shouldnt be that big of a jump

[compact crypt]

There is a reason why there was a lot people complaining about "only visual scripting; no Lua scripting"

But oh well maybe it's unneccessary, i just want to do it to test myself and my skills to do some contribution

[edgy kernel]

i think we’ll be more than satisfied with what their in-game tools allow

gotta keep in mind there is quite a few experienced MC modders on the hytale team, they wouldn’t skimp out on features & lessen player’s creativity

granted, more ways to mod are always welcome & i’m excited to see what all methods of modding everyone creates

[compact crypt]

Damn you're right, they already said that visual scripting is going to be powerful
To be fair i'm just a bit excited on making a significant community contribution

[formal burrow]

in other words: keep backups of your multiplayer worlds if you plan on running a server

people are 100% going to find dupes within the first week

people are going to have to invisible spectate suspected cheaters like the old days for a bit

[edgy kernel]

understandable! it’ll be interesting to see what all they give us access to. from what simon said we can essentially strip the entire game down & rebuild it entirely in-game

[edgy kernel]

backups on backups on backups

i genuinely wouldn’t be surprised if someone figures out affecting servers beyond in-game

[formal burrow]

TCPShield/CosmicGuard aren't built for Hytale yet but they should very quickly get the real DDOS protection out soon. DO NOT bother with cloudflare. TCPShield is dirt cheap compared to the rest

[viscid wren]

The issue with that is it requires TPM 2.0 and with the current state of the economy upgrading to a PC that has that isn’t happening for a lot of people.

[formal burrow]

Cloudflare Spectrum REFUSES to give an actual detailed price... You don't need it. Just use TCPShield when it's ready within a month or so of launch. They cover unlimited bandwidth at $250/mo

[compact crypt]

What do you mean? i think you misread my message, i said that i find it ok that there was not a kernel-level anticheat

[viscid wren]

Gotcha. Failure on my part. Good tid bit for those that are asking for it to consider.

[storm glen]

Its a custom engine and it wasn't ready so the lack of anti cheat isnt exactly odd.

[compact crypt]

Yup that's what i'm talking about, totally understandable

[edgy kernel]

nah it’s blasphemy that this isn’t launching with a full fledged anti-cheat with AI

(im joking please dont put me ona cross)

[storm glen]

Grok plugin when.

[edgy kernel]

blockchain based chunk storage when

[storm glen]

🤓

[worthy cliff]

wait that’s sick, I’ve never worked with lua before is it a big jump from Java?

[storm glen]

Lua is a very non strict language. Its similar to Python

[compact crypt]

Lua has an ultra simple syntax, it's used in roblox and garrys mod for example

[storm glen]

Ive been coding it in Lua for 16 years.

[edgy kernel]

i’m curious if we’ll have an attributes system similarly to minecraft

a curios / charms mod would go crazy

[worthy cliff]

Ah ic, I’ve heard it’s popular with game engines

[storm glen]

Technically I believe so because everything is just a JSON file.

[edgy kernel]

gta rp is lua if i’m not mistaken

[compact crypt]

Yes, because of valid reasons:
Simple, fast and powerful if you expose the right functions

[storm glen]

Its popular because its an easy to pick up language. Its also used in modding world of war craft.

[edgy kernel]

siiick. will be diving into that

just scared to make a ui 🙁

[storm glen]

The UI looks to be fully made with code. Which i was not looking forward to.

[edgy kernel]

curious what all this NoesisUI thing is

[compact crypt]

UI will need a rework in the future

[storm glen]

Its just a UI framework. However we won't be getting direct access. Instead we have to use their abstraction layer.

[edgy kernel]

a UI builder could be sick, limited in certain ways i’d imagine, but sick nonetheless

[compact crypt]

Yup, it will hopefully be customizable in the future (around +1 year after launch maybe)

[storm glen]

The framework has a UI builder. Im just hoping we can use it and import.

If it doesn't Im just going to code a UI building tool.

[edgy kernel]

I’d be interested in seeing FancyMenu level customization

spent hours playing with FancyMenu my first time loll

[storm glen]

Ive worked with code built UI and its the worst experience.

[compact crypt]

I wonder how difficult can it be given that the server is the only way to build ui for the client

[edgy kernel]

i’m all for visual development, i’m usually braindead when it comes to anything code wise LOL

command line, easy
code, hell no

[compact crypt]

The game on launch will be running at life support though
They mentioned that there are possible data-losing crashes, no good documentation for server, limited features
So UI doesn't seem to be top priority for now

[edgy kernel]

i can’t wait to combust my pc with everything i’ma attempt

[storm glen]

The closest solution I can imagine is make a plugin that takes their abstraction layer and you create your own UI that spawns in those elements and exposes their properties for editing. We may also can make real time changes but we'll see.

We'll see.

[compact crypt]

Yup we'll see once we get a taste of dem server files

[storm glen]

I'm more interested right now in the feature and bug bounty. Hence why I'm thinking about tools to create.

[compact crypt]

This hype is a bit worthless for now though, it seems like this game won't release until q1 2026

Or is there some info on a possible release date?

[storm glen]

Release date announcement is next weekend

Or the week after

[compact crypt]

Ohh glad to remember what was going to hppen next week, i wasn't able to remember

[worthy cliff]

with their emphasis on fast release, polish later i doubt itll be a long wait

[storm glen]

My POV is its gonna be a bit silly for everyone to immediately create mods when with an unfinished and changing foundation.

If people just focus on making tools and assisting with the bounty the game can get to a stable point faster to where nobodies custom work breaks as much.

[worthy cliff]

thats a good mindset

[storm glen]

Everyone wants this to be another Minecraft boom and get in early to do well financially. This is... not gonna be that. Yet.

[formal ridge]

Simon mentioning that they might purchase exceptional mods probably helped stoke the fires a bit, ngl

[storm glen]

Can you link?

The bounty is the only thing Im aware of.

[compact crypt]

Wait what? Like actually buying the rights of a mod?

[hoary pebble]

I was also thinking of doing something based in UI, and waiting to see how the Infastructure is. But also the current devs open sourcing their server / mods id want to scrap that truthfully cause they've been able to use the tools for years vs months

[storm glen]

It was already shown to be fully made in code. So doesn't seem like we get an editor. I can try to find the image where I saw it.

[compact crypt]

I would like to see it

[formal ridge]

He's mentioned it a few times now but he re-iterated it with his most recent spoken interview.

A time before that it was in a post on x over the possibility of someone making a great mod for something that would be the redstone system equivalent within Hytale.

[worthy cliff]

how come? i can see some early servers or mods snowballing forward

[hoary pebble]

Yeah but being made in code doesnt mean much to me isnt most tech made in code?

[storm glen]

The issue as they've mentioned everything is very prototyped together. This means your dependencies may often break as they rearrange classes.

[worthy cliff]

ah good point

[formal ridge]

Maybe? It would probably involve that if purchased. Though again it is not like a mandated nor clearly outlined thing, he only mentioned it a few times in passing

[compact crypt]

Do you have info on how feature/bug hunting is going to work? (Maybe sending emails with the contribution like the linux kernel or maybe an official way to do pull requests through a git repository?)

[formal ridge]

I would also point out that it was mentioned that folks that get other people to purchase Hytale with an account associated phrase (sorta like buy 'xxx' with this discount code) will be able to make a small percentage off of every game purchase used with that code.

[brittle estuary]

Does anyone know what the Tebex pricing structure is? They don't say on their website without creating an account

[compact crypt]

You mean the website tebex? Maybe they're talking about how minecraft servers manage their paid items with external webs like tebex

[storm glen]

No, but most bounties are simply based on payouts based on the severity of the change and you report it.

The actual bounty may not happen until the source is released 2 months after release, at that point, any pull request will be reviewed and that may come with requirements for how our code needs to be setup.

They will definitely have code requirements for stuff like naming conventions and so on if they want to not create more problems.

[brittle estuary]

Yeah, curious if anyone knows what Tebex charges for setting up a store and processing checkouts

[compact crypt]

I am guessing it's free but they take a portion of what you earn
There seems to be a "Tebex starter" plan and a "Tebex plus" plan

[storm glen]

Im looking for the one employee who posted an image on his twitter showing code. He was making the mod viewer. Having a tough time.

Kweebec Corner doesn't cite his image sources which makes it harder to find who it was I saw.

[brittle estuary]

Ah, unfortunate. I really wish Hytale woud set up payment processing so they can get that percentage of sales rather than some other company

Would much prefer that money going back into the game and development

[compact crypt]

I imagine they would, but that would be like an extra task for them
Setting up a payment processor, making sure there are no safety issues with handling payment, or if they don't do it in-game, a website is also something to set up

Though i can agree with your point of supporting the game

[brittle estuary]

It would basically be like the buycraft plugin back in the day but internally run and distributed by Hytale

[compact crypt]

Didn't buycraft work 1:1 with tebex too?

[brittle estuary]

Even thought it's an extra task, I feel like the massive influx of people setting up servers even in the early access days is the time to capture users of a system like that

Rather than let them use something else and try to get them to switch later. Doesn't work well

[brittle estuary]

Buycraft is Tebex. They rebranded

[compact crypt]

Ohh i see

[compact crypt]

Maybe that idea hasn't sparked to them yet

It would be a great way to get indirect financial support

[brittle estuary]

I would be surprised if it hasn't. What would be the best way to let them know?

[compact crypt]

It has been difficult to communicate with them from my perspective, try mentioning it when a director is in a chat (game-discussion, or possibly the next QnA)

Maybe a tweet can work too

[brittle estuary]

It would be massive financial support. If the base game only costs $20 - $80 once. If they get 1,000,000 users in the first year let's say, that's an average of $45 so $45,000,000 once. Which I'm guessing is close to what they spent on reacquiring the game, so roughly breaking even in a year.

If a million users, let's conservatively estimate spend on average $1 per month on Hytale servers and Hytale got a 5% cut of that. That would be $50,000 per month going straight to the company and their developers every month rather than $0 if they don't have a recurring revenue stream.

I'm also guessing they would eventually have significantly more users and a higher average spend than $1 per month per user

[compact crypt]

That makes 100% sense to me, it would be a great secondary income for them, i wonder if they are actively choosing to not get that cut of servers (for whatever reason) or if they haven't thought about it

[storm glen]

Go check out that link to see the UI code I was talking about. @hoary pebble @compact crypt

[compact crypt]

What link exactly?

[storm glen]

Is it not showing?

[blissful citrus]

I thought that in the interview with thirtyvirus they talked about how they would take a 0% revenue cut for the first 2 years (Potentially longer)

[hoary pebble]

I would like to though thank you!

[compact crypt]

In your message? Nope

[storm glen]

On "x" (twitter)

/Ktar5/status/1991664868131500049

[brittle estuary]

Unfortunately Simon has said publicly that they don't want to take any percentage of sales for the first 2 years of the game. Which is what leads me to believe they won't be creating an official payment processing plugin for at least 2 years which imo is a huge missed opportunity

[compact crypt]

Ohh so they actually mentioned it

[brittle estuary]

Yeah

[compact crypt]

Did they mention why exactly?

[teal vector]

IMO an official payments system would be a good thing to do when the game hits a 1.0 release, not early access

[compact crypt]

Interesting

[storm glen]

You found it?

[compact crypt]

Yup

[storm glen]

I find it interesting we need to use Java and this custom language setup like CSS

[compact crypt]

Wait this is actually a bit crazy for me

[storm glen]

But you know what's more insane.

This is actual production code we're seeing.

[worthy cliff]

along the lines of "the payment is the players/retention mods and servers will bring"

[brittle estuary]

This was his exact post: "Hytale will take 0% from modders and server owners for at least the first 2 years.

We will trust that they bring us players; that is all.

We will not have any exclusivity clauses.

By the players, for the players."

[compact crypt]

Ohh i see now

Maybe they were thinking that each server can have their own website with payments so they take 100% out of it

[brittle estuary]

The reason it's better to have an official payment system sooner rather than later, even if they don't take any percentage now, is because everyone will just use something different at launch and get used to that and won't switch when an official one comes unless it's mandatory which they most likely won't do

[compact crypt]

Are you saying it's insane to see production code because of the fact that it's code we haven't seen or the fact that the code exceeds 80 columns and looks like a bit of pain to read?

[hoary pebble]

arent they going to release the whole production code in like two months, they say they are just legally bound I thought, also they want to open source their server and such as well to give the community scraps to play with

[storm glen]

Yeah, but it's always nice to see.

[compact crypt]

They said documentation* is going to be released two months after release
Source code of servers will be unobfuscated on release, and it will be able to be decompiled*

[storm glen]

I'm converting it to a text document right now to paste here for anyone who can't be bothered to go view the link.

[compact crypt]

Client code is not going to be released though, so the only code being released will be the server's

[compact crypt]

Didn't you find the code to be a bit convoluted to read? (i'm talking about the 3rd pic btw)

Dat horizontal scrollbar haunts me a bit, hopefully it isn't the case for most of the code base

[storm glen]

Java File

public class PrefabEditorLoadSettingsPage extends InteractiveCustomUIPage<PrefabEditorLoadSettingsPage.PageData> { // 6 usages & Carter Gale +5
    private final List<DropdownEntryInfo> savedConfigsDropdown = new ArrayList<>(); // 5 usages

    public PrefabEditorLoadSettingsPage(@Nonnull final PlayerRef playerRef) { super(playerRef, CustomPageLifetime.CanDismissOrCloseThroughIntero

    @Override & Carter Gale +3
    public void build(@Nonnull Ref<EntityStore> ref, @Nonnull Store<EntityStore> store, @Nonnull UICommandBuilder commandBuilder, @Nonnull UIEve
        commandBuilder.append("Pages/PrefabEditorSettings.ui");

        // We iterate through all the files in the PrefabEditorCreationSettings asset folder to find all our dropdown entries
        savedConfigsDropdown.add(new DropdownEntryInfo(LocalizableString.fromMessageId("commands.editprefab.ui.savedConfigs.noneSelected"), valu
        for (var assetId : PrefabEditorCreationSettings.getAssetStore().getAssetMap().getAssetMap().keySet()) {
            savedConfigsDropdown.add(new DropdownEntryInfo(LocalizableString.fromString(assetId), assetId));
        }

        commandBuilder.set("#SavedConfigs #Input.Entries", savedConfigsDropdown);
        commandBuilder.set("#SavedConfigs #Input.Value", "");

        var rootDirectoryDropdown = new ArrayList<DropdownEntryInfo>();
        for (var value : PrefabRootDirectory.values()) {
            rootDirectoryDropdown.add(new DropdownEntryInfo(LocalizableString.fromMessageId(value.getLocalizationString()), value.name()));
        }
        commandBuilder.set("#MainPage #RootDir #Input.Entries", rootDirectoryDropdown);
        commandBuilder.set("#MainPage #RootDir #Input.Value", PrefabEditLoadCommand.DEFAULT_PREFAB_ROOT_DIRECTORY.name());

        var worldGenTypeDropdown = new ArrayList<DropdownEntryInfo>();
        for (var value : WorldGenType.values()) {
            worldGenTypeDropdown.add(new DropdownEntryInfo(LocalizableString.fromMessageId(value.getLocalizationString()), value.name()));
        }
        commandBuilder.set("#MainPage #WorldGenType #Input.Entries", worldGenTypeDropdown);
        commandBuilder.set("#MainPage #WorldGenType #Input.Value", PrefabEditLoadCommand.DEFAULT_WORLD_GEN_TYPE.name());

        var axisToPassOnDropdown = new ArrayList<DropdownEntryInfo>();
        for (var value : PrefabStackingAxis.values()) {
            axisToPassOnDropdown.add(new DropdownEntryInfo(LocalizableString.fromString(value.name()), value.name()));
        }
        commandBuilder.set("#MainPage #PasteAxis #Input.Entries", axisToPassOnDropdown);
        commandBuilder.set("#MainPage #PasteAxis #Input.Value", PrefabEditLoadCommand.DEFAULT_PREFAB_STACKING_AXIS.name());

.ui file

Common > UI > Custom > Pages > PrefabEditorSettings.ui
    $C = "../Common.ui";
    $Sounds = "../Sounds.ui";

    @InputLabel = Label {
        Anchor: (Left: 6, Right: 16, Width: 250);
        Style: (...$C.@DefaultLabelStyle, VerticalAlignment: Center, Wrap: true);
    };

    @NumberInput = Group {
        @Visible = false;
        @Left = 32;
        LayoutMode: Left;
        Anchor: (Left: @Left, Top: 6);
        Visible: @Visible;

        @InputLabel {
            Text: @Label;
        }

        $C.@NumberField #Input {
            @Anchor = (Width: 60, Left: 0, Right: 16);

            Format: {
                MaxDecimalPlaces: 0,
                Step: 1
            };
        };
    };

    @MultilineTextField = MultilineTextField {
        Style: $C.@DefaultInputFieldStyle;
        PlaceholderStyle: $C.@DefaultInputFieldPlaceholderStyle;
        Background: $C.@InputBoxBackground;
        AutoGrow: false;
        Padding: (Horizontal: 10, Vertical: 8);
    };

    $C.@PageOverlay #MainPage {
        LayoutMode: Middle;
        Anchor: (Width: 70);

        $C.@DecoratedContainer {
            Anchor: (Width: 700);

            #Title {
                $C.@Title {
                    @Text = %customUI.prefabEditorSettings.title;
                }
            }

            #Content {
                LayoutMode: Top;
                Padding: (Full: 16);

                Group #SavedConfigs {
                    LayoutMode: Left;
                    Anchor: (Bottom: 16);

                    @InputLabel {
                        Text: %customUI.prefabEditorSettings.savedConfigs;
                    }

                    $C.@DropdownBox #Input {

[compact crypt]

The .ui file looks good to me

[storm glen]

I quite frankly hate the entire idea of building the game with from code and not an editor lol.

[compact crypt]

The java file... i'm a bit worried about the state of the rest of the code base

[storm glen]

It looks like we have to build out our UI elements in .ui and use java to tell it where to go and what to be filled with.

Unless according the .ui you see how the InputLabels work, it becomes a listener of that property.

I'm going to see of this is supposed to be how Noesis works or this is their abstraction.

[hoary pebble]

did you guys scroll to gerolds question from the x post does it mean anything with the confirmation that they guy gave or nah (the one you posted before)

[storm glen]

With X post?

[compact crypt]

The same you sent

[hoary pebble]

I HATE SLOWMODE

[storm glen]

It doesn't mean anything in particular, they will get your code for instructions on how to build the UI from the server and send it to the client.

Wait...

[compact crypt]

What i got from the comment+confirmation is that the content is passed from the server to the client

[storm glen]

I just realized what might be going on now.

[compact crypt]

Like, a settings folder comes from the server and the client gets it

Yup this is more crazier than what i thought

[hoary pebble]

its like gmod

[storm glen]

The .ui file is a "markup asset" so pretty much like .css like I thought.

[compact crypt]

It's .xaml from a comment

Wait no

[storm glen]

That doesnt look like xaml

[compact crypt]

I messed it up, what it really was said:
@midnight vapor5
"The XAML markup language with Noesis comes later/soon. This is a temporary legacy custom markup language that we're working on transitioning to Noesis."

Whoops i tagged him accidentally, i'm sorry ktar

[storm glen]

Well maybe he can reply back to us for specifics, but this is cool to know.

[compact crypt]

"Legacy custom markup language"

[storm glen]

It's just a shame it's a hidden detail in a reply.

[compact crypt]

This will be definitively one of the things that will be broken in the future

[storm glen]

Hence why I was saying we should REALLY all avoid jumping the gun thinking this is gonna be a business boom.

[compact crypt]

Like, doing any ui mod right now will have to be rewritten for noesis later on

[hoary pebble]

Right now, our UI situation is messy:

We are using three UI frameworks at the same time.
We are in the process of ripping out two of them and consolidating on NoesisGUI.
Noesis Technologies has been extremely helpful to us, and we want to acknowledge their role in helping make Hytale happen. 

(from the hytale modding strategy and status

its only neosisgui i believe in the future

we pray

[compact crypt]

Wow three ui frameworks?
the game currently is really on life support with dat band aid holding multiple frameworks in a single project

[storm glen]

So it's likely we'll see the java part stick, but the .ui part will just be redone as xaml with Noesis later.

[hoary pebble]

they were going for every platform under the sun under riot they are majorally rescaling

[compact crypt]

They currently are using the legacy engine, the riot engine was discarded from what i got from the news

[storm glen]

New post from Simon.

[worthy cliff]

damn they were working with multiple engines for different parts of the game?

[compact crypt]

If i'm not mistaken, They were rewriting the entire game from scratch when riot took over

[rose atlas]

[XXXX] is a multiplayer Hytale server game mode where teams of heroes work together to save the Hytale universe from a mysterious force known as The Fracture. Players explore dynamic worlds (Alterverses), complete missions, fight enemies, and restore balance to the universe.

here's the beginning of my idea 👀

[compact crypt]

Now it's just the legacy engine that was being developed before riot

[worthy cliff]

i see, do you know if the engine will be available for modders?

[storm glen]

The current one they are using (legacy) written in Java.

[compact crypt]

The server-side (java) code is going to be released unobfuscated so it is going to be able to be decompiled when it's released

If you know java you can make server plugins

And even modify the entire server code at your wish

"[ Question 40 ]

How much depth are we speaking with mods? Can we re-write the whole game in some sort of way (obvs we would have engine limitations)

Slikey (Tech Director): I think that is simply something we have to wait to see. Most of our core game is changeable. You can make your own version of orbis with custom world generation, custom NPCs, custom weapons, custom blocks. If you really wanted you could toss out all our content and start from scratch by making your very own adventure mode / map that is using none of our game."

[storm glen]

And the Java SDK for building will be version 25.

[compact crypt]

Gotta learn java to do dem juicy server plugins on release

[dark cape]

sooo juicy 😍

[storm glen]

I been doing Lua for 16 years, C++ for 3 years, JavaScript for about 5 years.

Java is gonna be pretty simple, I'm just learning to code a web REST application with Spring Boot to learn how to use it cause I'll want to support an external database with PostgresSQL

[compact crypt]

Did you start learning lua with roblox or any other platform?

[storm glen]

I used Roblox, and it's now how I make my living working for a studio, but I also teach how to use game design in Unreal Engine 5 at a college.

[compact crypt]

Ohh that's amazing

[worthy cliff]

gotcha, so doesn't seem like we have direct access to the exact engine they are using but still a lot of freedom albeit without an engine to work through

[worthy cliff]

living the life

[storm glen]

It's very fun, and some of my students are play testing one of my games I'm trying to release soon, free labor. 💀

[compact crypt]

Hmm i can guess that the engine is the server-side code, the client-code is the one that interprets whatever the server communicates

[storm glen]

I liked that Hytale wants to support a visual language since I'm already used to Unreal Engines C++ and Blueprint interoperability.

[compact crypt]

Free playtesters? You're lucky ahahah

[storm glen]

It'll work just like websites do.

The UI part of the code will be sent to the client, and have it's own functionality to know how to talk back to the server.

[dark cape]

I've wanted to move to roblox but I just have no clue what I'm doing when I open roblox studio. I feel completely useless lol

[worthy cliff]

what are you working with now?

[storm glen]

My advice is to learn to make an obstacle course. @dark cape

Learn basic programming fundamentals like addition, functions, and events.

There is a great course I can link you on Youtube.

[dark cape]

I think the only thing I haven't messed with is events

[compact crypt]

Roblox really uses a lot of knowledge from their api so that's where you start
Well, where you really start is with the idea of the game you want to do

[storm glen]

The problem is learning is easiest when you are programming stuff you want to make.

[dark cape]

yeah the game idea is where I'm stuck, but I just realized I can probably look at commission posts to give myself some challenges

[storm glen]

But you won't be as good as you could be if you learned fundamentals first.

[worthy cliff]

jst dont get stuck in tutorial hell

[compact crypt]

That's exactly what i did when i started
I looked at hiddendevs posts to check what tasks are being requested, and i did them from my side

[dark cape]

I already know java lol so no worries

[storm glen]

If you want the tl;dr of Roblox.

Server scripts go in ServerScriptService.

Client scripts typically go in StarterPlayerScripts or ReplicatedStorage @dark cape

If you want things to communicate between server and client, look up "RemoteFunction" and "RemoteEvent"

[dark cape]

thanks 🙂

[hoary pebble]

youre a pretty good teacher have you considered picking it up?

[storm glen]

I teach for a living at a college.

For Game Development, I cover Game Design and Game Programming in Unreal Engine 5.

[hoary pebble]

sorry i ran away but i reread the chat i was making that the my the joke but it was also a nice joke

[storm glen]

I'm actually looking forward to when Hytale releases cause, I'm wanting to make tutorials on how to code and design in it.

[worthy cliff]

you have a channel?

[storm glen]

I mostly just post WIP stuff on it and demo reels, under DevTechSpectrum

[bold salmon]

do u like expedition 33?

[storm glen]

I've yet to try it, I really want to, heard nothing but great things about it.

[bold salmon]

k, make sure too and add it to your liked games bio

[worthy cliff]

awesome

[hoary pebble]

comes in expedition 33 gone with the wind

welcome to the big 25

[viscid wren]

Subbed

[eternal rune]

"shared source" open implies you have more freedom then we expect we will have.

[eternal rune]

Personally I find Lua a lot harder then many other languages due to esoteric error messages, and an older style of programming. It's popular because it's easily embedded and able to create bindings into C/C++ with decent performance still.

[rough widget]

The term open-source is being thrown too lightly around here haha

Hope they make it really open-source tho. Maybe not rn but in the future

[eternal rune]

It's clear they expect us to be able to fork it for running servers, and plan on accepting contributions back, that's good enough for me for the games lifetime (but open when it 'dies' maybe?)

[formal burrow]

The server code is definitely not going to be FOSS but it's going to be editable/redistributable in a modified form. There is a reason why it hasn't just been outright released right now. They legally can't.

[rough widget]

I wondered about that. Yeah IG if we can fork and contribute everything's good. Hope the game has a lot of years to come

[eternal rune]

There's a slim chance we won't be allowed to fork it to run servers given the exact details released.. but judging by everything else I read it seems extraordinarily unlikely. I think I remember it specifically saying so we could see how stuff works when writing plugins... But since they plan on accepting contributions in the forms of bounties, it seems dumb you wouldn't be allowed to run it modified in production, but could just be my tired brain full of fear atm

[scarlet spoke]

We'll get access to the server files, which wraps the core methods.
So you can fork without problems but you probably can't add new core methods.

[tired arrow]

The real question is if mcmmo is going to have a release ASAP

[formal burrow]

No one is. This is like when Gol D Roger died and everyone started sailing for the One Piece. No one is going to know how to do anything at the start, in-game and when writing mods

[tired arrow]

Key word, “ASAP” means as soon as possible.

He’s typing heaps, his autism is about to spurt out

[formal burrow]

We literally have AI. One of the only things AI is efficient at is converting one thing that's already good to another. We'll likely see some vibe coded plugins (not entirely saying that's a good thing) when it comes out, however, people with a brain will still be required to use AI as none of the AI models are trained on Hytale's API. Anyone who actually can make anything working with AI without having the pretraining these models need is either going to be a genius, lucky, or reckless

[tired arrow]

You don’t know many people then

[formal burrow]

Hopefully Hytale will have an n8n API lol

[tired arrow]

Mate simon with his huge meat will know what the community needs

[bold salmon]

How big u think is it?

[tired arrow]

He’d have a small little pecker but it’s his girth that makes up for it

[fleet plover]

this

[formal burrow]

Technoblade is the closest to Minecraft's Gol D Roger. He was the only person likely allowed to actually play Hytale due to his status and condition but he was here too early, so he couldn't play it with anyone, which was the whole point of the game. Technoblade's life literally mirrors Gol D Roger's. A man who took over the whole Minecraft community, had an insane amount of influence, didn't need to use cheap tactics/clickbait (the devil fruits) to take over the platform and take on anyone else. He was just here to have a good time.

[lilac prawn]

will there be an Anticheat?

I'd be down to code a serversided one like NCP in Minecraft

[karmic cloud]

i just realised he doesn't use clickbait lol , pure content

[fierce fulcrum]

Making an anticheat for a game that is not in a stable version is a strange endeavor no ?

We know there won't be any kernel level anticheat, server side i don't belive they spend time on this issue but we might be surprised

[remote garnet]

with a game like this, you'd probably also want to define what you consider cheating - as Minecraft (which this is heavily influenced by) was just a creative game to do just about anything, and eventually evolved from there

so what you consider cheating, might not be something I consider cheating for my own server

[lilac prawn]

just basically like NoCheatPlus. If you run a community / gaming / build server where cheats like flying around, noclipping and speedhacking isn't allowed, I'd detect stuff like that

[fierce fulcrum]

This kind of thing is possible in minecraft because of some architecture decisions they made, we can't really project that type of problem here

(The minecraft server tend to be overconfident about what the client says it's doing, but here we know that the client has much less power as it's just a very good display and input manager)

[remote garnet]

ah, we'll just have to see if there are built in flags and detections for this type of things in the server

if not, we'll probably need to create something to prevent this

then there is the argument whether it makes sense or not considering it'll be in early access; there is no correct answer to this though, other than server owners needing to do what they see fit for their own server (it might break often for example, so might be a huge task to create something like this and maintain it)

[lilac prawn]

Especially in early access games it would be good to have a decent Anticheat to begin with if you want to build something that isn't infested with hackers

[fierce fulcrum]

I mean, it will be hard to host any "professional" server in the state the game is believed to be in

[lilac prawn]

ye probbaly

but better to start early on local host

[fierce fulcrum]

(and i feel like a lot of people on this discord kinda forget that )

[misty field]

its very likely basic stuff is already built in

[fierce fulcrum]

No but i mean you can always do whatever you want !

[remote garnet]

first on my to-do list is something like CoreProtect and mcMMO, but before sinking too much time into it, I will need to see what the server provides out of the box first

[fierce fulcrum]

It's just that i belive it's not a great use of your time and skills

[lilac prawn]

I'm specialized in Cheating and Anticheat, I just do it for fun and I see it as a great way to analyze the workings of the game / server / client

[fierce fulcrum]

I believe it's better to try do mods that tries to add strange things to the game to test out their architecture and report issues
An anticheat for example is """"""""""""easy"""""""""""" (on the principle) to implement because you don't actually need to interact weirdly with the client

[lilac prawn]

I understand ye

[remote garnet]

in that case it should be a fun project ^^

[lilac prawn]

But with the publicity of the game I think there are enough people working on those kind of mods already, so I'd rather use my skillset on something that I know

[fierce fulcrum]

We also need a kind of placeholder api at some point ^^ x)

[fierce fulcrum]

(again people can do what they like ❤️ )

[shell oasis]

The thing im wondering is if we creater a server and for example you made some swords skin , do the player need to install the "mod u add" outside to join the server or its going to be inside the game

[remote garnet]

I haven't really developed plugins for Minecraft servers in years, so not that familiar with all the things Minecraft server plugins offer via open source libraries and stuff 😛 but presumably we'll be needing a lot of things haha

[remote garnet]

it's in the game

[fierce fulcrum]

tbh i really don't understand how you can begin working "heavily" on a game not released x)

[manic pine]

EA sports

[lilac prawn]

currently I can't at all. there is no api, no source, no dump, noting. I'll wait like everyone else for the release of more modding insights

[shell oasis]

So u can make the server and add some new mobs or some new skins etc with no problem

[fierce fulcrum]

The server send the assets / json files to the client and then the interaction is done with packet
From what was said we believe the client is just a display and a lot of things are managed by the server, so your client do not need to dl the code for example only the assets

[misty field]

im not very knowledgable but isnt that also a security thing, being able to upload anything thats gonna be distributed across all players without rly asking

[misty field]

ah

[fierce fulcrum]

As long as it's not code the risk is really not that big
there are still issues but they always going to be some

[misty field]

fair

[remote garnet]

to elaborate a little bit; their vision is that there should only need to be 1 client, which originally was the Minecraft-way too, but modders have made modding frameworks that makes the client and server incompatible, unless the same version/mods are present on both ends

this is very annoying, and with the right toolset, we can probably do 95% (or more) of the custom content we want just with the client's core functionality, though this of course remains to see when they actually release the game and we get to do hands-on stuff with the game and servers for it

[fierce fulcrum]

A lot of people forgot that at the beginning the first few mods on minecraft were actual new versions of the game ^^ x)
That's what motivated the creation of modloader (if i remember it was the first project on this) to create a "mod" files to drag and drop mods into

In the beginning you could not really play with two mods at the same time

So yeah they've done some huge things to solve this but it's true that it's still a problem to force player to have to modify their client instance to access the server

[misty field]

we just got used to it

[shell oasis]

Yeah agree i was wondering on how compatible the game is with the mod people will create , like if extra fire paticulars in the sky will make it laggy (just example)

[remote garnet]

presumably it'll ask you if you want to download custom content, and since it's not code itself, but rather text-based representations of things that is interpreted by the game's engine, it shouldn't be a security risk

this is something all developers of games that allow custom content worry about, and they probably have devs on staff that are knowledgable in this

I remember back in the CSSource days, it downloaded mods automatically when you joined a server, there were some incidents of malicious stuff going on there with some vulnerabilities (no idea of the details though)

worst of the worst was back in Java in the browser days though, with "Java drive by", where a Java app would run as soon as you visited a website and then execute code on your local machine, installing some malicious program 😅

[fierce fulcrum]

*The world if no hackers existed : ❤️ *

[misty field]

oh damn

i think cs1.6 still does that 💀

[remote garnet]

that is the idea indeed, their blog post on the website about mods does outline most of this in pretty good detail ^^

though it does remain to see how well the game itself holds up to their promises ofc

[misty field]

thats so interesting

[remote garnet]

would be so many less jobs 😮

[hollow solstice]

Java will be used to code plugins? To same extent like minecraft?

I'm looking into making minigames and selling them

[shell oasis]

Bro im so excited for the game

[remote garnet]

that's what they said at least; so presumably server is JVM-based, so Java or Kotlin will be the way to go

[hollow solstice]

I'm curious what server software will be used? Built in one from hytale or will there be some equivalent to spigot/paper?

[fierce fulcrum]

yeah true :p and i mean it's always to good to have people check the security of system, less good to have them use those vulnerabilities for their own profit though

[fierce fulcrum]

the api is supposed to already be inside

[remote garnet]

same, I was so hyped back in 2022 or whenever it was; before Riot bought them 😂 then rewrite after rewrite, then nothing, then cancelled, such a shame

[shell oasis]

Btw guys question is it better to learn how to make your own plugin or wait for people to make it?

[hollow solstice]

That's nice to know, I'm curious about how much "freedom" we will have with plugins and server vanilla modding. Will it be heavily limited like minecraft?

[fierce fulcrum]

Better for what ? the question is weird

[misty field]

maybe it was good this way.. for us to get something better

[remote garnet]

with Hytale being heavily influenced by their experience running Hypixel, I'm guessing it will feel familiar to those who have experience running and developing for Minecraft servers

[hollow solstice]

Learning how to make plugins especially on a new game like hytale will take you a while. If you want to get started I'd recommend mastering java first. Many ebooks on it

[misty field]

i can feel the adrenalin and excitement thru every tweet and discord msg of the devs

[shell oasis]

Bro saaame i was so excited on the first intro that pop up on my youtube i was like damn that like terraria and minecraft have a mix

[remote garnet]

is Minecraft really heavily limited though? I guess it does depend on what kind of stuff you want to do

[fierce fulcrum]

Limited is not the right word, it's just that a lot of the time you fight with the game and it takes a lot of time

[hollow solstice]

Yes, I mean I'm a minecraft plugin developer for last 3-4 years. And there are many limitations you just can't pass even with packets unless you remake the server software itself

[remote garnet]

you're asking the wrong question, because that question only has one answer; "it depends" 😛

[hollow solstice]

No, it is limited if you want to do everything vanilla

[shell oasis]

I think for me minecraft is very ram consuming with modpacks

[fierce fulcrum]

even then it's not that limited
I mean you can "add" entities, blocks, uis etc but it's a nightmare to implement

Of course there are stills some limitations, but a lot of the time you can find a weird way to make it work

[hollow solstice]

You can make custom entities sure, but you have to use resource packs to make them look different which annoys me that whenever you join the server you have to download the resource pack

[fierce fulcrum]

Well yes but'll always be the case, you need to dl the assets ^^ even on hytale it'll be the same

[fierce fulcrum]

Thanks minecraft for adding i don't know how many tropical fish 🥲

[hollow solstice]

I suppose we have to wait and see. Maybe they will make it better. Who knows

[remote garnet]

there are 2 main problems that I'd consider "limited"

1. you can't alter the way the client works, so you're limited to the assets (less so these days maybe?) and mechanics provided by the client itself, which isn't that many

2. the server is obfuscated, so we depend on Bukkit/Spigot/Paper to reverse engineer and provide ways to interact with the client in their plugin APIs

this results in some things being really difficult to do, and some things are a bit "limited" in how the server itself is designed, regardless of what the client does as well

but this is the result of somebody taking something that was meant for A and using it for B instead 😛

[fierce fulcrum]

Well that's just copium there ^^ the best thing they could implement is a partial download where you could have assets limited to a world or something like that and not download all of them at once

[remote garnet]

that is the client and the game engine not being well optimized

as far as I could tell, the Hytale client is C++, which is A LOT more efficient than Java (assuming it's done right of course!)

[shell oasis]

(Extra excited for that)

[fierce fulcrum]

I agree with you ^^ i just mean that you can always tinker far more than people are aware of

they've added a system for creating uis systems in the last version but it stills feels very crude

[fierce fulcrum]

Again It's not C**#** >>>>> Jave, it's mainly a question of how well the code is written for the rendering part

[hollow solstice]

It really depends, latest java is really good performance and efficiency wise

[remote garnet]

not really possible to do it different, end of the day, you will need the assets you're going to display in the client

I'm not familiar with how it works in Minecraft, but in games like Garrys Mod/CS Source, it automatically downloaded assets (and scripts etc), perhaps that's more along the lines of what you were hoping for being different here with Hytale compared to Minecraft?

[misty field]

is it possible to categorize stuff under each game graphic setting like low mid high etc? so someone who would lag only gets assets that fit their selected game graphics so they dont lag but still get the server experience

[fierce fulcrum]

We also have to remember that minecraft is 15 years old, thing changed since them in the game industry

[hollow solstice]

I'm aware of that. I'm just saying whenever u go download assets from some server it's always the same screen and it asks you if you want to download it. That's what annoys me. Limitations, lack for configurability for server owners

[fierce fulcrum]

I believe they said this system (which i don't remember the name of) is not implemented yet but it could be interesting

[fierce fulcrum]

Yeah surely a "dl lobby" would be a nice thing

[misty field]

is there any other easier method than just this?

ig you kinda still have to trust the plugin dev to have tested the plugin properly too

[fierce fulcrum]

The problem is you need to be able to send different assets to different people and that in itself is already a bit weird technically wise
(you don't want to send the 4k texture to someone using only the low texture quality thing)

[manic pine]

I don't think that'll be a thing

[remote garnet]

yeah, absolutely, but it's a well established fact that a lower level language will perform better than a higher level language

C# would have similar (or same) problems as Java, since they both depend on a "virtual machine" sort of layer (CLR and JVM) that then converts the compiled code to instructions for the hardware to execute

this is getting a bit further out in the dev field than I'm personally particularly knowledgeable about though, I just understand some of the principles and basics 😛

[misty field]

yeah that would be an interaction between my client which has low settings saved and the server which now knows i only need the low quality stuff

it doesnt need to send me all of it right? altho what about if i change settings.. hm ur right

[fierce fulcrum]

Yes but they don't really use low level language ^^
And actually the "low level = better performances" is wrong to begin with, it's heavily linked to the skill of the dev
As said above the VM can do optimization online that a low level, where a low level language would need to have the dev thing about those optimizations beforehand.

[remote garnet]

well, if you play a server regularly, that screen should only appear first time you play it? never really played Minecraft servers with resource packs, as I've only really played my own Minecraft servers where I've never used this new feature thus far 😛

but end of the day, early access will be what Hytale is gonna use to nail the details around how players interact with the game, and make it as good as possible for every involved party (which 100% of the time does come with compromises; some more significant than others)

[remote garnet]

idk what they use for Hytale, I just saw some mention of C++ 😛 but what I do know for certain is that the Minecraft Java client isn't well optimized

[lost shadow]

Will player ids be uuids, numeric ids, or something else?

[remote garnet]

Bedrock edition might be better, never played it though

[misty field]

bugrock 🗿

[remote garnet]

nobody knows, other than the Hytale team

[dark cape]

java

[remote garnet]

for the server, yes, at least from what I could understand from their blogpost, but the client didn't seem to be Java (also from what I could understand from their blogpost)

[fierce fulcrum]

(i belive a lot of us mess up when we write the language but on wikipedia it is clearly said the "legacy engine" (which is the one they use now) is written in c#)

[remote garnet]

UUID is my best guess though; better question is probably why you want to know ^^

[woeful depot]

yep, it should be UUID

[woeful depot]

to build their systems accordingly?

[remote garnet]

I guess so, but if you just need to store some ID, you can implement it with UUID, string or int, and then easily change it when you know for certain what it will actually be ^^

[vast dawn]

I'm wondering if there will be a good way to write non-java code then use that. Either by writing something to compile for JVM bytecode or maybe FFI called into a thin-wrapper in java

[lost shadow]

I mean if it was already known I wouldn’t have to change anything later on

[remote garnet]

fair point haha ^^

[lost shadow]

I was just asking it isn’t the end of the world

[fierce fulcrum]

I believe you can always do whatever you want just that the startpoint is java code and you can't suppose what software is installed on the server

[remote garnet]

hmm you might be right, can't seem to find back that C++ reference I was referring to either

[lost shadow]

Didn’t they drop the c++ engine

[woeful depot]

yeah that's actually true. mobile apps built in react native and flutter literally doing that.

[fierce fulcrum]

yes they did

[lost shadow]

pretty sure the client is c# and the server java

[dark cape]

I like to think they're keeping some things minecraft-like, so UUID would make sense

[remote garnet]

if the server is Java, then UUID makes most sense from what I can tell at least

[fierce fulcrum]

it's actually not a minecraft thing to begin with ^^ it's a pretty common thing

[woeful depot]

I believe server code is inspired from the minecraft so expect things to be similiar

[dark cape]

all the more reason 🙂

[lost shadow]

I thought so too so I’ll just use uuids

[remote garnet]

inb4 they use Twitter Snowflakes 😂 (the same thing Discord uses for IDs)

[gaunt tendon]

Working on a Hytale Network Server, if anyone wants to be a part of history lmk!

[fierce fulcrum]

They could a different "type" of uuid (iirc they are multiple configuration)

[vast dawn]

please no 😭

[woeful depot]

this is my id guys save it to your database 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000

[lost shadow]

lmaoo

[remote garnet]

wouldn't be the end of the world; could just rip the Snowflake implementation out of a Discord bot library haha

it's actually not that bad of a format either tbh, but perhaps doesn't make as much sense for something like Hytale 😛

[dark cape]

alright I'm giving you admin on my hytale server

[remote garnet]

done!

[fierce fulcrum]

(by the way it's not a valid uuid )

[remote garnet]

who will be doing plugins in Kotlin btw?

[woeful depot]

I searched the google and kotlin is not fully supported for java 22-25 and they've told they are using java 25

[dark cape]

Clojure 😃
I'm kidding, I only know java

[remote garnet]

shouldn't matter

[dry trellis]

I’ll personally be coding in LOLCAT

[fierce fulcrum]

You, i belive, you are a troll

[lost shadow]

willem you are everywhere aren’t you

[dry trellis]

Yes

[lost shadow]

I know you from minetopia btw XD

[dry trellis]

That’s crazy lmao

[west elk]

Even if you compile for 21_LTS the server running on 25 should be able to run it without problems

[woeful depot]

I hope so

[vast dawn]

man, it looks like Rust just isn't gonna be a good choice, it doesn't work nicely with the JVM and JNI makes it possible but defeats the point by making it way less optimised than if it were just natural Java. I guess there could still be use cases for putting something hot in rust but even then, JVM will do a good enough job that the JNI won't make it worth it.

guess I'll learn kotlin!

[remote garnet]

you can rewrite their server in Rust 😛 iirc they said the server would be open source

[vast dawn]

it's one thing to make my mods, but to do the server would be a whole other beast

also obligatory #DaysSinceLastRustMinecraftServer (can't post a link (it's been 194 days as of now (there are 11 entires)))

[fierce fulcrum]

You said we will always be forced to the newest version of the game, no version selecting. What about the servers, will they be able to run custom versions?
We are releasing the server as shared source - you will have the source code with no obfuscation and all our comments in it. You can run very heavily modified versions of the server. If you really want to and you have the technical skills, you can make your own Hytale server software. I know some Rust programmers are already warming up the keyboard. You have to make sure you keep the protocol compatible with the latest version of the client though.

From slikey in qna

[remote garnet]

definitely 😂 but at least it's not as much crap to deal with as Minecraft, with it being open source haha, but it definitely still isn't a small task to undertake

[fierce fulcrum]

I'm a theory guy, but i'm always afraid of rust devs
those people are in a cult 👀

[vast dawn]

*hides my ferris plushie*

[fierce fulcrum]

this is the crab thingy right ?

[vast dawn]

I went over the modding strategy post, so the client is immutable and everyone will have the same one, whereas the servers people run are free to be whatever, as long as they fit the protocol, and since all the modding and customisation lives on the server anyways then this does look hopeful for rust modding of hytale!

[woeful depot]

rust modding?

[low compass]

So mods are installed to the server, not the client? (Assumingly the client downloads all necessities when they join/)

[dark cape]

Rust the game™ I presume

[woeful depot]

you can do whatever on the server but all you can do is send packets to the client. you can't make them install client mods. client will only use assets hytale has provided. you can only modify them as a server

[vast dawn]

as far as I understood the modding strategy post, all mods live on the server including modded assets?

[low compass]

interesting

This is is a very good sign

[vast dawn]

I'll have to take another look at the post then to confirm that

[low compass]

I'm calling it now - if this is handled correctly, It'll be able to adopt a roblox like presence in the market

[woeful depot]

I don't know what you mean by that. what I'm trying to say is server is in full control of modding but it's limited with hytale client

like, if they didn't add walkPlayer() method then you can't make it walk

[vast dawn]

my interpretation of how modding will work is that we have full control over the game, since they said that the modding tools are the exact same tools as what they use to actually build the game.

[woeful depot]

that's right. we are just restricted by limits of these tools

[vast dawn]

but at the same time, they made it seem like these tools will give full control over every aspect of the game? like you can make an RTS or an MMO, make whatever assets in blockbench and the asset tool, etc...

[low compass]

And if hypixel know how to make one thing, it's tools

[woeful depot]

I believe so. anyways, they will add whatever is needed by the modders so I have no doubt on that.

they just want to make client immutable because of security concerns

[bitter nacelle]

A lot of their design seems to be central to Unreal Engine, and mentioned it by name

[vast dawn]

I do agree with immutable client, it's a hassle in minecraft. I recently played a quick game of modded factorio with my friend and I was amazed that I didn't need to do anything for the mods, the server managed that for me instead

[woeful depot]

hmm I'll check how does that work in factorio

[woeful depot]

they'll do that a lot for visual scripting

[vast dawn]

oh but since the server source code isn't being released for a couple months till after the game does, it will take time to get into modding with rust :P

day 1 modding will have to be standard server

and even when it does drop, it will take a while before a custom server will get to 1:1 parity with the official server

[woeful depot]

If you are good with network protocols and understand their implementation of QUIC you can make your server in rust

[vast dawn]

that will be a LOT of work to make a whole entire game server from reverse engineering, and then to just have the "forward" engineering given soon after.
I would rather just wait for the source code to be released

[woeful depot]

yup

you may need to implement game logic too I guess. so sending packets are not enough

[storm glen]

I wouldn’t exactly say it is, it's mostly a newly discovered thing for them which is now a new driving point for visual scripting. If it were a major point before it would of been mentioned and a scripting method wouldnt of been teased in the original trailer.

[kindred ember]

do i smell rustaceans preparing to remaking the server software or am i wrong

[bitter nacelle]

Yeah probably not ngl. C++ abandoned engine and suddenly all the tools look like Unreal? Calling cap on that

[mild plinth]

will java be the only supported programming language for modding? or is the plan to extend it to other languages

[woeful depot]

they are working on visual scripting

[pseudo magnet]

I think that client could be partially modded. I predict that server will be able to send lua scritps to client. We will have not as much controll over client like we have right now with minecraft mods but there will be some.

[eternal rune]

Java will be the only supported language, outside the "visual scripting editor" but it's difficult to know how much that will cover

[woeful depot]

java is the only go

[eternal rune]

That's been explicitly said as not happening

[woeful depot]

yup

[pseudo magnet]

meh

[woeful depot]

this doesn't change anything tho. we are able to build anything with tools they provide

[eternal rune]

That said, nothing is stopping unsupported language adaptors, you'll see scala and kotlin API wrappers pop up quick

[topaz walrus]

No they did not

[woeful depot]

they did

[topaz walrus]

Nope

[woeful depot]

🙂

[topaz walrus]

You are wrong, feel free to research

[woeful depot]

Have fun with lua scripting then

[pseudo magnet]

This means we can't create for example custom voice mod or anything that requires custom interaction with player computer

[icy hollow]

Didn't the mod blogspot state theyre not doing lua scripting

[woeful depot]

they are working on proximity chat so I'm sure this is possible

[topaz walrus]

Not lua, but eventually server will be able to send visual scripts to client

[woeful depot]

what are you even talking about

[eternal rune]

We were discussing Lua...

[pseudo magnet]

it was example, I ment it would be nice if there will be option so mods can access computer devices like microphone / gamepad / VR google / camera / etc since it opens many possibilites for fun mods but also sadly for hackers

[topaz walrus]

If server sends visual scripts, you can make lua to vs transpiler

[woeful depot]

they won't let people mod the client because of security concerns

[eternal rune]

At that point you are arguing over the definition of a mod tbh

[woeful depot]

you can do the same with java too

[topaz walrus]

IMO would be harder with java but yes

[woeful depot]

I mean inject some DLL to patch the game

[tidal bane]

Have they revealed which language the Hytale server will run in? I want to get Docker ready for Pterodactyl.

[topaz walrus]

I mean they cant stop that even if they wanted to

[woeful depot]

java 25

[tidal bane]

So I won't even need to worry about that.

[mild plinth]

ok, ty!

[remote garnet]

it takes like 2 minutes to decompile it to Java code, all you'll be losing is their comments

[remote garnet]

problem with Minecraft is that it's not just closed source, they also obfuscate the source code, so while you can decompile the server, there will be so much jibberish to sort through

[woeful depot]

true

[eternal rune]

Assuming it's not obfuscated until legal sign off.

Whilst they've stated it won't be, it's mildly ambiguous if that means immediately when they also say "shared source when we can"

[eternal rune]

That's not true (anymore)

[woeful depot]

I decompile a lot of android apps and obfuscation is not that much powerful

[remote garnet]

oh? since when? 😮

[eternal rune]

Very very recently

[remote garnet]

it just means it takes a whole bunch of extra time and effort to figure out what you want to figure out 😂

[remote garnet]

oh, any info on this? I'm curious about more details around this 😮

[eternal rune]

Yeah, I've contributed mappings to YARN, it's possible but a pain

[eternal rune]

minecraft dot net removing-obfuscation-in-java-edition sorry links are banned

[remote garnet]

nice! I wonder why they didn't do that much sooner 😂 nobody serious hosts a server with their own server JAR anyway

[woeful depot]

indeed

[eternal rune]

I think hytale was the final push to finish the long process tbh.

But it's been essentially deobf with the mojang mappings being released, so a lot of people viewed it as change for change sake

[remote garnet]

I think Hytale will push Minecraft to do more meaningful things, especially if Hytale is successfull

which in turn might mean Hytale also will do meaningful things longterm, and there will be a healthy competition between the two

[hearty iris]

The beauty of free and competitive markets

[remote garnet]

yeah

[eternal rune]

The "deobfucated names" have been available (publicly) for nearly 3 years though, just needed work to be applied.

[remote garnet]

ahh okay, that has probably helped Spigot/Paper devs to push new servers for new MC versions at least ^^

[eternal rune]

It's hard to publically know, but rumour had it some had them much earlier

[remote garnet]

wouldn't doubt that tbh

but from what I can gather, Hytale seems to be everything I wish Minecraft would've been by now, so I hope they live up to that hope ^^

[eternal rune]

What I'm actually really interested in is to see all the little ad-hoc API people make early on to fill the gaps

Like Vault, placeholders, permissions,

[remote garnet]

yeah, there are a lot of things about Hytale that should be interesting to see, but I'm also curious to see what they have in Hytale out of the box in that regard, considering their experience working with Minecraft servers over at Hypixel

[eternal rune]

I suspect there will be a lot, just a decent amount of it substantially awkward

[fierce fulcrum]

At some point i feel like they will be a "community global addons" with a list of plugins that just add apis to the server, agnostic of every other plugins

Because one of the problem of minecraft is that people relie to heavily on plugins exported apis so when you want to use them with an other plugins it breaks easily (hard to explain sorry)

[eternal rune]

Yeah, I'd like to see some standardized UI plugins, that have hooks for others.

Just so you can do like significant UI changes, but still have 5-10 plugins not try and compete for screen real estate.

Even if it's like a generic, render some EULA or welcome text at first

[fierce fulcrum]

That would actually be a good project to have a "apis hub" where you can add a hook agnostically and then plug your plugin on this hook
Like a network interface but for apis

[viscid wren]

I think im going to start prototyping my plugins in minecraft, like creating my sql tables and stuff like that

[fierce fulcrum]

For example let's say you've got a economy plugin abstractly :

• have a list of "currencies" and metadata on them (with the owning plugins for each metadata key)
• be able to set the player money in the given currency
• be able to access a player money in the given currency

(The notion of currency is to manage if you have "premium" or "event" currency for example and not have to redo everything)

It would be sooo cool because then when the visual scripting is added to the game we could have only one addition to the visual editor which manage everything and then you don't need every economy plugins to add their own visual node

Maybe i'm the only one hyped by this kind of thing :p but i still believe it would be cool
And that actually can be designed and thought about before the game is even released

(if some people want to work on this i'm really interested :3)

[eternal rune]

Personally, with custom everything's available, I'm kinda more interested in coins then virtual currencies

[fierce fulcrum]

Could work too the thing is that you've got problem if you want to give a player money
they need to have room in the inventory, be online, be on the right server (possibly) and etc

And this is in essence not incompatible, in this case the set and get you defined using the inventory but then all other plugins can use your coins

[eternal rune]

All depends on the design, with threading and race conditions, you'll likely want a mailbox anyway.

Having an emergency place to store items saves so many headaches

[fierce fulcrum]

Could have, but then you need apis which work between them which kinda goes to the idea of a higher level system with mutual dependencies between a lot of thing

[remote garnet]

one of the things I hated when I was into RuneScape Private servers, everything always relied on commands to do everything, and no auto completion or anything either

and in this case we had the option to create custom UIs if we wanted to, since we used reverse engineered versions of the client anyway (besides, the UIs themselves could be altered or new ones created without changing the client code itself)

[eternal rune]

Think as designers we should be thinking one further step forward too, and trying to design experiences that a controller can use.

Similar to "mobile first" development

[fierce fulcrum]

I like abstraction, for example even your mail system could be defined the same way real online mail is managed with optional title, sender, receiver, body attachment
Then the attachment is either active or passive, active means you need to interact with it to try and consume it, passive means that you don't need to claim it / it's already claimed

Then whoever can add new types of attachment

[eternal rune]

I was less meaning player mail and more, emergency item queue, but still valid

[remote garnet]

that also relies on their UI framework/API, a lot of the rough work could be solved in that layer without us having to do anything specific for controller support

but yeah, it would definitely be something I would personally work towards; accessibility and consistency, as well as things needing to feel like "they belong"

[fierce fulcrum]

(my system is more general but it's nice when you have emergency item to be able to see where they're coming from)

[eternal rune]

Yeah, it's just a very deep rabbit hole of optional improvements

[fierce fulcrum]

But rabbit holes are good 👉 👈

[eternal rune]

It's going to be so good though just to have big invisible colliders to trigger things instead of polling constantly though

[remote garnet]

VR support too would be ideal haha ^^

[eternal rune]

"oh you collided with a player house, time to whip out the exact coordinate checks for the welcome messages"

[remote garnet]

that would certainly be nice, saves on checking if inside some bounds every time somebody moves 😂

[eternal rune]

Kinda want to make a Magicka conversion

[gleaming pecan]

Good morning

[rose atlas]

Same people who keeps asking for vr will use it like no more than 5 times and get bored of it 💀

[gleaming pecan]

I cant wait to get nauseous in vr hytale when using daggers

[dark cape]

no bro I used to play Blade & Sorcery daily

[rose atlas]

👍 its very niche still

[eternal rune]

What do you think the chances are of prox audio chat?, mod or otherwise

[fierce fulcrum]

Simon said he was interesting in adding that

at it could only be done client side it needs to be done by them

[gleaming pecan]

But tbh even linux is a higher priority than vr for sure, i doubt we'll see it for a while

[dark cape]

omg I just love Simon and hytale

[fierce fulcrum]

Might have vr at the same time it's going to ship on other platforms

[gleaming pecan]

I want it disabled by default

[dark cape]

bros making what I've dreamed of making, possible

[viscid wren]

The windows edition better work with wine 😡

[fierce fulcrum]

of course it will be i guess

[gleaming pecan]

Hoping and praying

[fierce fulcrum]

I'm playing star citizen so i already have a windows partition :3

[gleaming pecan]

Its more of a personal nitpick

[native prairie]

sa beyler Türk warmii

[gleaming pecan]

I dont like my ears getting blasted by people in the lobby when joining a server

[viscid wren]

I just hate using windows so much

[fierce fulcrum]

me too, but i can't make nvidia gpu works on arch soooooo i need to play games on windows

[viscid wren]

😭

I have a gaming laptop with an nvidia gpu and it works fine on arch

[fierce fulcrum]

🤷 i had it working at some time, then it does not work
then i got no sound

[viscid wren]

that sucks 🙁

[fierce fulcrum]

then i just accepted my fate of playing on windows

[eternal rune]

Visual script a default mute if lobby is full

[viscid wren]

If all the mod stuff is server side would you even be able to do that on your client

[hollow solstice]

They dropped c++. It's what riot recode was. They reverted to Java now

[eternal rune]

Wasn't talking about a client.

Just that it'd be one of those little per server quirks, that would be well suited to it.

Expose mute status to visual and a way to query amount of people in a region, and bobs your uncle

[viscid wren]

Ahh gotcha

[abstract barn]

Hey everyone! im really interested in learning how to make plugins for hytale or getting involved in a server project once the game is released. Is there any group or team I could join to learn more, collaborate, or help out with plugin development and server creation in the future? any recommendations would be greatly appreciated thanks!

[viscid wren]

good becuase I dont even know C++ 😅

[rose atlas]

Just learn java

[fierce fulcrum]

@abstract barn you can even follow minecraft plugin tutorial to see globally how it works to do java plugins for a game (it will be obviously different but the ideas will be the same)

[viscid wren]

yeah learn Java, start messing around with minecraft spigot plugins

[eternal rune]

No one knows details just yet.

But the best start you can do is asset creation and creating a logbook of ideas and prototyping on paper.

[fierce fulcrum]

and find people to discuss them with, it's always better to have two brain on things like that

We really need a "community sharing" forum channel, or renaming the community fan art thing

[abstract barn]

I already know the language, im trying to find a team who i can work together with

[rose atlas]

🤷‍♂️ builtbybit

[spice sluice]

then learn kotlin

[fierce fulcrum]

To be fair there are people posting there from time to time

example

[golden socket]

this

[long nimbus]

Will it be tcp or udp? Will be possible to make dns records for different ports?

[fierce fulcrum]

(I believe at some point @viscid wren was looking for people ?)

[fierce fulcrum]

they said currently there is no dns resolution for ip

[viscid wren]

Am looking for my own team

[fierce fulcrum]

this one is looking for people to work with

[compact crypt]

Are you asking for the protocol that is going to be used with servers? They mentioned that it's going to be QUIC

[long nimbus]

That is udp but with verifications? Currently used for web right?

[compact crypt]

Yes it's a udp+tcp hybrid

(In terms of speed and security)

Question 2 of the QnA answers about the protocol used

[spice sluice]

something like raknet minecraft bedrock uses I guess

[abstract barn]

Exactly ^^

[fierce fulcrum]

Well now you've got two people to try to reach out to ^^
but don't forget to tell them you're a novice guy, some people don't like working with new devs and other don't mind
it also enable people to not ask you things that obviously outside of your skill range for now

(I don't know how much you're novice in java but eh just a reminded to be clear when talking with people)

[gleaming pecan]

Or just disable it outright for everyone, if youre annoying me everyone loses 💀

[abstract barn]

Tyy! ^^

[gleaming pecan]

Also gotta ask what is the difference between text based scripting and everything else?

[woeful depot]

text based is outdated I guess

or it's better to invest on visual scripting so people who don't understand coding terms are comfortable

[long nimbus]

The server will be runnable on linux based systems or just windows as base game at launch? Do you know

[woeful depot]

it will run fine on linux. it's a java project

[gleaming pecan]

Yeah i get that, its probably gonna make life much easier for me as a beginner programmer, im just curious what it really is

[woeful depot]

you can check unreal's blueprints maybe

[fierce fulcrum]

🤓 It's a dimension based difference, text is 1d, visual is often 2d
to my knowledge there is no big project in 3d (apart from research)

[woeful depot]

imagine 4D visual scripting 💀

[gleaming pecan]

I mean 4d miner exists

[fierce fulcrum]

the only research project i see with 3d system was weird iirc

[long nimbus]

Ok thx god

[fierce fulcrum]

displaying a binary input in 4d is ok tier
but displaying things you can interact richly with uhhhh you loose the whole feature of making it simpler for people

[woeful depot]

@gleaming pecan you should check unreal's "introduction to blueprints" it's really cool

[gleaming pecan]

Yeah, im just making a joke, i really gotta learn the differences before i can comment on it

[gleaming pecan]

Ill give it a look

[bitter nacelle]

Learning node-based editors like Unreal or Blender’s Geometry Nodes will def prepare you for how to interact with node editor in Hytale. Esp seeing the value in iteration and non-destructive workflows.programming will be king of making cool stuff, but node will most likely become the pillar of server design.

[woeful depot]

true

[violet sorrel]

I don’t understand the Java choice I expected that they will use c# or at least Kotlin as it could be called from Java.

[fierce fulcrum]

My answer outside of troll is actually a right one

From a technical aspect it's really a dimension difference

From a usage point of view it enables better view of the context to people. As animals we are much more stronger as seeing "pictures" (node in visual scripting) and reacting to the schema we see than text editing
It also prevent syntax error which is a big problem for newcomers
It also push people designing them to have meaningful error message

Overall i would say "visual scripting" is not much more better than text based scripting but the question you need to answer to make it work push you do to something much better than if you were simply doing a code/text based editor.

Actually it's ""still"" an open research question to how to evaluate "how good' is a visual script, there are some frameworks but they don't always work.

[tender merlin]

if the server supports java you can always add kotlin

kotlin is just syntax sugar on top of java

[fierce fulcrum]

Java and kotlin are "interchangeable"

[violet sorrel]

No all all Java code runs in Kotlin but not all Kotlin code in Java.

[fierce fulcrum]

People learnt java for minecraft so it would be dumb to ask people to learn a new language

[fierce fulcrum]

As long as the api is strongly typed i'm pretty sure you can plug a kotlin code

[tender merlin]

.

[storm glen]

No, it's really not. Visual is another way to code for people with different preferences. Typically people who are visual learners.

[tender merlin]

you can quite literally have java classes and kotlin classes on the same plugin working together because of what Wyrdix said

[woeful depot]

I know lua is still used widely but point of scripting is introducing scipt language to game's language. I guess they thought modding in java would be enough for programmers

[bitter nacelle]

For anyone who actually programs usually it’ll be more performant than node-compiled logic. That’s why High level design is usually mode-based while the actual logic is still programming exposed as a node.

[storm glen]

The issue really should be - do you really want to code in Kotlin if everyone already can start working when hired if they know Java.

[violet sorrel]

Well people learned programming for Minecraft. I don’t think that Kotlin or even c# would be too far away. That they don’t use rust or c# is clear. C# would have a been a more generic game development language.

[vast dawn]

I appreciate lua for what it was made to do: provide an easy way for astronauts to code when needed...
but please for the love of simon stop using it for games 😭

[fierce fulcrum]

But 😢 i want to port computercraft to hytale 🥲

[tender merlin]

i mean all those points are well explained on their blog post, they mention why they took those decisions.

[storm glen]

They were just inspired by Unreal. Which uses C++ which can extend Blueprint

[vast dawn]

I loved computercraft but not the lua part, I will forever despise languages that index by 1 >:(

[storm glen]

So you make custom nodes in C++

[woeful depot]

they'll add that?

[tender merlin]

why force the poor developer to learn 2 languages, they just picked one and stick with it.

[fierce fulcrum]

I mean i'm thinking about adding a python thing but i'm still not that sure about that part

[storm glen]

They've written in the post they were inspired and want to support interop

[vast dawn]

they said visual scripting is a major part of the modding experience, but it's still going to be built upon java

[fierce fulcrum]

C**#** not C++ it was the riot engine

[storm glen]

Unreal Engine

[tender merlin]

you can even write code on JS if you want with Java, with Nashborn etc..

[storm glen]

I am not talking about Hytale atm

[fierce fulcrum]

okay sorry i wasn't able to guess correctly the message you were answering to

[fierce fulcrum]

It will be if java modders expose node for the visual scripting tool ^^ '

[bitter nacelle]

^

[storm glen]

The significance of visual scripting and interop with Java means you can code systems in Java and expose the functionality to the visual language for designers to tweak the experience.

Basically. You would code a quest system in Java and script in quest with Visual

[hollow flicker]

Not really thanks to jep 372
It's also unmaintained

But GraalJS and GraalPython would work

[fierce fulcrum]

A part of me want to try to do a visual code plugin before them mainly for trolling purpose

[tender merlin]

point wasnt the library was the JS added to Java but yeah

[vast dawn]

the well-maintained mods are aboslutely going to do so which should set a precident for everyone to do so, especially since a lot of non-technical people would prefer Scratch over Visual Studio

[bitter nacelle]

Exposing logic to designers will be what programmers can do best for the whole community. Let your resources be modifiable in the editor, link values from other resources, etc etc.

[fierce fulcrum]

The other way around would be nice too, but i don't know how we could do that

[storm glen]

That would be a bad idea.

[fierce fulcrum]

yes

[vast dawn]

the problem is the middle pack, technical people that can't be bothered to include nodes

[storm glen]

It could create cyclic dependencies

[pine hornet]

Do we know the maximum amount of players that will be able to play on a single world/server?

[bitter nacelle]

No

[vast dawn]

that should be up to the server maintainer

[fierce fulcrum]

no ? it would actually be good to be able to create constants functions in visual code and use them in java, that would mean any plugins can use any other plugins

[pine hornet]

Okay, very good 😊

[compact crypt]

I don't think there's a max, it's just the resources that the server can bring to the table i guess

[fierce fulcrum]

(I'm bumping this one because in my head it's linked to this Java -> Visual Code problem and i'm really interested)

[hollow flicker]

Is it known what default quic port hytale will use? E.g. for Minecraft it's 25565 tcp

[bitter nacelle]

Hardware tests are being ran this week, we should know soon-ish but there’s no concrete answers

[pine hornet]

And do we know if we will be able to fully customize the world generation? Let’s say I want to generate a flat world without biomes.

[compact crypt]

Not known yet, details will be revealed on release

[storm glen]

The problem is that most likely the Visual will just inherit from the Java source. Not even unreal allows you to extend C++ with Blueprint

[vast dawn]

I'm just glad it's HTTP3 instead of HTTP2 :)

[hollow flicker]

I don't think it's http3, which is http + quic. It's only quic

[vast dawn]

even better then

[fierce fulcrum]

That's not a technical issue at all, if we asked them to enable it we could imagine together a way to make it work

they exist some "dynamicly defined" visual scripting language and they work

[vast dawn]

I don't think I would like cyclic dependencies but ultimately it depends on how they actually implement visual coding

who knows, maybe a visual node is exactly the java code and it's just a visual window into the .java

[fierce fulcrum]

Best guess is you create a protocol for what a connection means, which use a typed json object on edge then you can consider each node as a json reducer on it's entry
and you have effect nodes which take json object which reprsent some actions and do the corresponding effect

[vast dawn]

or it could be a visual file mirroring the .java

[storm glen]

Just from a architecture perspective it's not the best idea to allow what will essentially turn into cyclic dependency hell and not keep the two defined. Its scripting for a reason.

[fierce fulcrum]

would be hard, this kinda of thing breaks far too easily

[bitter nacelle]

I don’t foresee a system where visual replaces programming. Visual systems are almost entirely designer centric

[fierce fulcrum]

Which part ?

[storm glen]

Which part of?

[fierce fulcrum]

Really not

We could see visual scripting as a way for server administrator to config plugins too

it just boils down to what you want it to be used for

[vast dawn]

I'm not familiar with how unreal and unity's plugin does visual scripting but how I view it is that the root authority is the programmer's code while the designer's nodes are just an abstractive layer rather than an authority on its own

[bitter nacelle]

Yep. I’d like to be able to do system design in node, but it’ll be plugins that build the nodes we need. Like modifying a spawner and providing it a location/mob/timer of some kind.

[fierce fulcrum]

But THAT is a design choice

it's not a technical limitation of visual scripting

[bitter nacelle]

Best thing you can do is your own research and experimentation.

[pine hornet]

Unreal engine has blueprints extremely deeply integrated. Blueprints actually make a bunch of stuff way easier than using the C++ equivalent

[fierce fulcrum]

(if you've got some time i really like this kind of project and i would be really interested on working on a prototype)

[bitter nacelle]

Ya my team already knows we’re exposing functions as nodes and designing and configuring in nodes.

[white crest]

Even if it's called "visual scripting", it will compile to a mod, it's not a live scripting

[fierce fulcrum]

we don't know that yet at all

again this is a design choice

[pine hornet]

Do we know if we will be able to fully customize the world generation? Let’s say I want to generate a flat world without biomes.

[white crest]

A tool worldgen already exists

don't need a mod for that.

[bitter nacelle]

I don’t think so. I think it’s just run live by the server locally. Compiles but not the same as making a Jar.

Like Skript almost

[vast dawn]

the modding strategy post specified Jar files for server modding

[bitter nacelle]

Yes but visual editing is not an IDE

[fierce fulcrum]

it also said they don't have the visual editor rn

[storm glen]

Unreal uses C++ as the root and uses a reflection API to expose itself to Blueprint. And it gets interpreted into machine readable code.

Blueprint cannot extend C++ but you can make all the custom nodes you want.

It definitely is a design choice but the reason I say its not a great idea is to require visual code in the programmed one is how you then need to change the scripted language to be compiled instead of interpreted.

Basically defeating the point of the scripting language.

[bitter nacelle]

Not really

[fierce fulcrum]

No you don't need to have it compiled you just need to know the dependency and be able to get the context of one dependency
there are ways to make that works

[white crest]

Blueprint require you to rebuild your project, I talk about "live scripting" not same.
Live scripting means, you don't need to build/compile something, it's modify in live the content.
My point is, visual scripting will not be "live scripting" (like Blueprint and other solution).

[storm glen]

If you can make it work, awesome, I'm still on the side of - keep the two languages responsible for their own roles and dont intermingle them.

It wouldn't be fun to debug Java by jumping between another language and figure out the dependency loop around you created.

[bitter nacelle]

The purpose of Node editors is to provide non-destructive workflows and abstract low level concepts. This is how it’s more accessible.

At no point will the visual editor be a replacement for programming plugins. It’s just not feasible. Even in Unreal you can nativize BPs to C++ but it’s often still not as efficient as actually programming. It’s a trade off for design and iteration vs performance and precision.

[white crest]

You will got a "run" button to start your visual scripting, under the hood, it will build !

[fierce fulcrum]

i don't think so
you could also have an event type of visual scripting

and in this case you don't need to actually "run it"

[storm glen]

Speaking of which, there's also dealing with merge conflicts with visual languages.

[fierce fulcrum]

If i've got time after the game release i'll work on that and we'll be able to discuss with a prototype
(would love some help)

[bitter nacelle]

DM me

[white crest]

Make something "run on live", it's very hard, you must resolve a lot of problems :

1. How to handle if the modder use a destructive action
2. Java under the hood, don't allow live scripting, so you must create your own interpreter
3. Lag compensation, syncing changes between players
4. Run in sandboxed mode to check error before run it on live
5. Send the visual script on the server to run it
6. Permissions, how did you handle if the modder try to use visual scripting to make he can't do (kill, teleport, give, etc)

[fierce fulcrum]

Well i'm glad it's my everyday work to do it ^^ (some parts not all)

[hidden glade]

Having most of the stuff data oriented certainly helps

[white crest]

Yes but when you tried to change the default behavior of something or add new things, it's show limitation.
Imagine your want to change behavior of the jump pad, to teleport you instead.
You can't with JSON data only. So a mod is required ...
Or launch with super speed at a location, but you get it 🙃

[fierce fulcrum]

You seem really sure of what you're saying but i really don't get why ?
"change the default behavior of something" => can you be more precise ? we don't want something which enables everything, we want something which enables basic modification (so it needs to be supported)

"imagine you want to change the behaviour of the jumb pad ..." => a good plugin would create and distribute an event before doing that and you could cancel it, start your own event, then do the result

You need a mod to transform the visual scripting into actual effect yes but apart from that the rest is just implementation choice

[hidden glade]

Depends on how much is abstracted and exposed, can't be sure until it's released

From what I understood, they want to empower players with no technical background

Obviously, you will always have more freedom by directly modding the game, but there's no way to quantify how much it will be needed just yet

[viscid wren]

Technically it is integrated into the game and used as a development environment.

[willow acorn]

visual editing is pretty much the same as scripting just another presentation

[white crest]

it's an IGE (Integrated Game Environnement)

[fierce fulcrum]

yes and no it's a higher level scripting thing

[fierce fulcrum]

It can be

[willow acorn]

yeah but you can do pretty much the same I would say it will be comparable to the Skript plugin in minecraft

[fierce fulcrum]

yes kindoff even the skript plugin is also a higher level language

[willow acorn]

Is the server thing java too?

wouldn't that be hard to scale

[fierce fulcrum]

yes

[woeful depot]

why would it be? hypixel is an example

[fleet plover]

Do you think servers will have access to creator codes too ?

[woeful depot]

simon mentioned youtubers and modders. I hope so

[hidden glade]

Minecraft is hard to scale, not because of java tho

[fleet plover]

^

[rose atlas]

Whats gang?

[onyx token]

sadly it already got confirmed that in terms of multithreading it will be more like vanilla minecraft with one main thread and less like folia as an example

so i would assume we get the same performance bottleneck with hytale, minigame-esque servers will be scaleable via horizontal scaling tho

and anarchy/smp like server will be bottlenecked until we get improvements maybe community driven ones. But even with the current infos we dont know how many players a single server can support atleast for now

[hollow tapir]

Give "Us as in Community" a month or 2 and we will have a idea how to bypass/have a better solution for it.

[rose atlas]

They said the engine will use all cpu cores

[onyx token]

you will find what i was referencing in #hytale-qna-live

[jolly leaf]

don't judge it too quickly. a mainthread may be important for core mechanics. But if you parallelise all the other things around it, worldgen, AC, networking, ... you can.

making core mechanics multithreaded is just very hard to get right

[lean lichen]

every world has its own main thread.

[onyx token]

i doubt the worldgen will be multithreaded even now there is no real modding friendly multi threaded world gen aviable for mc. I keep my expectations low maybe i will be positively surprised

[willow acorn]

do we know anything about is world generation? like is it cubic?

[compact crypt]

Did you see the last 17 minute footage released recently?

[willow acorn]

huh

[rose atlas]

i take that as a no

[coarse flax]

where we can get server plugins

[exotic maple]

Hi! What will be the programming language for Hytale server plugins?

[coarse flax]

i think the same as minecraft

[river spruce]

There is the Concurrent Chunk Management Engine (aka C2ME) mod which does implement modding-friendly multithreading for MC world gen, so I wouldn't be surprised if the Hytale devs can get multithreaded world gen running as well

[hidden glade]

Java

[round mauve]

so is it possible to mod with just coding in java? or do we need to your their built in node graph editor thing, and are we limited only by what theyg ive us

[woeful depot]

Yes, we are limited by that. So the idea is you use them to generate assets and use Java to make them live.

[compact crypt]

There is no clear way on how to get server plugins for now, but they might just let users use curseforge as a repository for the server plugins

[carmine hinge]

You can use either or both together iirc

[compact crypt]

You can make your own server plugins with java or create scripts with the inbuilt visual code editor

[woeful depot]

You will have to use external sites.

[compact crypt]

I'm wondering if the server code will support java plugins out of the box or if anyone trying to do a java server plugin will be tasked with decompiling the server code

[round mauve]

ty

[pliant cradle]

Slikey

 — 22/11/2025 19:06
When the server source code is shared shortly after launch of the game.

can be found in #hytale-qna-live

[woeful depot]

There's no possiblity minecraft plugins will work out of the box. You have to implement Hytale's API to them. But still you can use them without game interaction by just introducing your plugin to Hytale server.

Server code will be shared source and they will publish a gitbook for it.

[compact crypt]

Ohh i thought they said the code was only going to be unobfuscated, not that they were directly going to give us the source code
Great to know they will directly give the source code

[compact crypt]

Well i wasn't talking about minecraft plugins

[woeful depot]

I don't understand which java plugin you mentioned

[hidden glade]

They also stated that as long as you keep up with the client side protocol version, you could write your own heavily modified version of hytale in whatever language you want

[glacial helm]

hystom

[viscid wren]

How much ram yall think I will need? More than like 12gb?

For running a server, not the game

[west elk]

entirely depends on how heavily you'll mod the server, how many players you will have at the same time, and how the players will interact with the world

[chilly python]

Probably same considerations necessary for hosting an MC server

[viscid wren]

I wish I had the money to build an actual server best I got is running my spare gaming laptop as a home lab 😭

[west elk]

a survival type server with 50 people spread out in all corners of the world will use way more ram than a minigame server with 50 people all together on a prepared map

[chilly python]

Unless you use a plugin which separates regions into specific instances which spreads the load and allows each region to run much smoother.

[viscid wren]

Its Joever

well maybe I can get some players to donate so I can build a better server 😂

[west elk]

Instances will be a native concept, but we don't know much about how they'll work

[chilly python]

Have they said anything about how hytale will handle larger numbers of people

I know minecraft is horrible at it from an efficiency standpoint

[west elk]

Only that they build with that use case in mind from the very start

[chilly python]

Guess we'll find out lol

[feral oak]

In which case it would still use just as much RAM but it would open it up to multi threading

[azure crest]

They stated in the last blog post covering modding that they can't give us the server source code when the game releases into early access due to legal reasons connected to the deal with Riot. However, they also mentioned that the server code is not obfuscated; thus, it can easily be decompiled. When everything is resolved, they will provide the source code themselves a few months after launch.

[compact crypt]

So i was actually right then, interesting

[viscid wren]

Does that mean we will have to look at the source code to make plugins? Or will there be documentation for that?

[west elk]

there will be documentation, but it will be pretty lacking to start off

[viscid wren]

Got it

As long as I know what events to listen to and can create a sqlite database file 😅

[compact crypt]

that was EXACTLY what i was asking for and like 3 people misunderstood my message

[west elk]

Yeah we won't have to direclty modify the server to add custom functionality. The server will have a native plugin loader that takes in bundled .jar files

[pine hornet]

Do we know if we will be able to fully customize the world generation? Let’s say I want to generate a flat world without biomes.

[scarlet spoke]

Probably

[west elk]

There are currently two world generators implemented. One using json files and one using a visual graph editor. It's unclear (to me) how they interact with each other right now but the end goal is to move everything over to the graph editor. A simple flat world will certainly possible in either case but the graph editor sounds like it will be more powerful in the long run.

And since worldgen is done soley on the server, you will also be able to rip it out and implement your own world generator if you want to do some very custom stuff

[pine hornet]

The graph editor is a big W in my opinion

[west elk]

For sure. I was ripping my hair out with the json files Minecraft uses ^^

[pine hornet]

Yeah its bad

[viscid wren]

Minecraft uses JSON to configure world generation? 😭

[pine hornet]

I wonder if we also are able to make world generation dynamic

So load a new world at runtime

[placid stirrup]

will hytale have an api like spigot at launch?

[west elk]

yes, but the documentation will be lacking

[viscid wren]

Sounds like I should start working on some plugins with non-specific API related stuff done so it will be easier to get that stuff implemented

[compact crypt]

Do you have something specific in mind?

[viscid wren]

Spawn protection
Teleportation
Economy
Factions
Combat plugin so players cant just logout to avoid combat

[compact crypt]

Interesting

[rocky spire]

Economy systems should be relatively easy to create right now as a majority of the system is data handling outside of a specific API.

[viscid wren]

I mean its just storing records in a db for how much money each player has 😅

[gleaming pecan]

thinking about how most minecraft asset models could probably just have a new coat of paint and look like they belong

oh and i mean external assets not base mc

[leaden zephyr]

Did anyone else notice this? Inside the patcher preview video, it shows 'Downloading Java 24.'
I bet it will even be upgraded to LTS 25 in the near future

[rocky spire]

You mean I can use a codebase that hasn’t been deprecated for 5 years!?!?!

[viscid wren]

Wait what vid was this 🤔

[leaden zephyr]

Take a look inside the showcase channel, it was on the 20th i think

[viscid wren]

Oh neat

[woeful depot]

server is java 25

[karmic night]

Yes, to define features and provide settings for the noise generators.
A data driven approach, which is perfectly reasonable given they want to let people extend/replace the system.

[viscid wren]

Interesting

[fringe ore]

Someone needs to allow people to connect to a server via mobile lmao

-someone ports/recreates minecraft in hytale

[compact crypt]

I imagine there is a reason why at launch there won't be mobile support
The team 100% wants to bring hytale to other platforms but due to limitations they won't be able to do it yet

[fringe ore]

Yeah I understand that, is it gonna be java only? I mean minecraft started there, but had to start over in cpp

[compact crypt]

For now all of the codebase is in java, minecraft cpp corresponds to bedrock (which is minecraft literally rewritten from scratch) which doesn't let people connect to java pc servers

[west elk]

The client is in C#, not Java

[compact crypt]

Interesting fact, didn't knew that

[fringe ore]

Oh I didnt think about that, so we do C# that means we have more potential

[west elk]

yeah it's not really relevant since we won't be able to mod it

[fringe ore]

Awhh

[west elk]

we will only be able to write plugins for the Java server

[compact crypt]

All i know is that they're really aiming for supporting more platforms

[fringe ore]

Dang

[compact crypt]

So at some point there should be a mobile version

[fringe ore]

Wait isnt it just their server software in java then?

[compact crypt]

The server codebase is in java yes

[fringe ore]

If c# client that means someone could technically rewrite server software for other platforms

Right?

[compact crypt]

Server software for other platforms aren't needed, the servers should always be going to be hosted in a PC platform

[fringe ore]

Oh true lol

[compact crypt]

Unless we are talking about how is a mobile device going to open a server, there the things gets complicated

[fringe ore]

Yeah, so just connection is what im thinking, so would that mean it would be simialr to geyserMC in a way?

Then someone would have to create an app.. idk

[compact crypt]

There shouldn't be a need of a crossplatform communication

Client is written in c#, it should be able to be compiled to x86 and arm processors

[fringe ore]

Awh ok

[compact crypt]

Unlike minecraft java/bedrock, which both of them uses completely different code for their clients

[fringe ore]

I see alot more potential

[west elk]

they're using ahead-of-time compilation to compile the C# down to machine code

they didn't talk about if arm is supported

but it's not the default intermediary .net runtime

[halcyon mica]

yes, sucks they didn't use C# for server but I am pretty sure we will see lots of clean room implementations of the server in C# 🚀

[graceful cobalt]

Are they planning on supporting macOS at launch? If so, ARM would definitely have to be supported

[west elk]

they said windows will be supported and they will TRY to do mac and linux as well. 😬

[fringe ore]

I heard not at launch

[graceful cobalt]

Gotcha, makes sense!

[halcyon mica]

I wonder what's stopping them from supporting Linux/Mac at launch

[graceful cobalt]

Probably just bandwidth to deal with all the other things they need to get going before launch

Hopefully they can get those up and running relatively quickly after though!

[compact crypt]

I'm hoping that release for windows is before the end of the year 🥲

[graceful cobalt]

Same lol. Though the way they've been talking about releasing, I'd say that's a decent likelihood. At the very least I'd wager January

[dawn spire]

time?

[halcyon mica]

what?

[dawn spire]

time is stopping them from supporting linux and mac at launch

[halcyon mica]

yeah so, what exactly?

[dawn spire]

time?

[halcyon mica]

what?

[dawn spire]

it takes time to port the game to different os, and they dont have that time before the release of the game

[eternal crag]

Linux and Mac are on completely different underlying architectures

[undone creek]

it was said also that you can use proton meanwhile for linux users

[eternal crag]

Still has to be tested fully iirc

[undone creek]

(i just cant link the message link lmao) but yea that too

[halcyon mica]

aware of that, C# is cross-platform so still wonder what would exactly be stopping me

perhaps renderer is written in DirectX /shrug

[dawn spire]

its not fully written in c#

they use a c++ engine for ui rendering iirc

[eternal crag]

That shouldn’t be the biggest headache, it’s mostly rendering things, they use OpenGL iirc for rendering

But yeah, I also think time is one of the factors

I don’t think a mac and Linux versions are that far away after release

[undone creek]

it was said in the qna that linux/mac support the engine modernization is on going

[eternal crag]

Yeah duh, that was known from the start, it’s just how long after release and how long would that take

Though I hope they’ll still attempt to get it working for release 🤞

[graceful cobalt]

It sounds like they have a good stack to be able to port it to Linux/Mac, but there's always quirks that come with porting to another OS so it makes sense that wouldn't be in scope for day 1. And unfortunately I imagine that's fairly low priority compared to getting the game running stable on Windows and gameplay loops more ironed out though. So we'll probably not see a port for a little while I'd bet.

[sour ore]

while it was stated that it hytale is not yet built for linux but do you guys think there might be ways to get around playing it in linux like via wine/lutris?

[graceful cobalt]

I'd bet it'll be doable

[bitter nacelle]

Proton makes the most sense since its gonna get the Steam updates with the new Steam hardware

[sterile dove]

They use noesis for ui's and it has c# bindings meaning they dont need to use c++

[undone creek]

they arent using noesis (yet) for ui, they are switching to it

[sterile dove]

But why would they use c++ then for ui

[eternal crag]

They’re already using it in some places, they’re just moving to it fully

[sterile dove]

And ye not sure what ui system they currently use, i still suspect noesis

[undone creek]

i thought they were moving to it slwoly but wont be there for EA

[sterile dove]

Got a source?

[eternal crag]

Can’t post links, think it was mentioned in the blog post about modding, and Simon said it was almost ready

[cold wigeon]

modding post said they were using 3 ui libraries

[sterile dove]

But java bindings for noesis will be ready on ea?

Oh lol:D

[undone creek]

this is a quote from simon in another discord ```we are using noesis ui in hytale fyi

[eternal crag]

No clue

[sterile dove]

Probably will otherwise we couldnt do uis

[eternal crag]

I hope so, cuz noesis is nice

[sterile dove]

Have u used much yet?

[eternal crag]

We could, just not with noesis I think

[eternal crag]

No, but reading the docs and playing around with their studio app for designing UI’s it’s pretty interesting

But we’ll have to see how we far we can utilise it

[sterile dove]

Haha cool 🔥 I tried it first time ages ago when it got announced for hytale and back then it didnt have visual editor

Currently its pretty hard and and a lot of crashes and corruption

[odd mica]

Hello! Does anyone know when we can expect the server API so we can start programming the first things? And maybe if there will be something like BungeeCord/Velocity? Thanks in advance!

[compact crypt]

On release

[undone creek]

you wont have any need to use something like bungeecord/velocity but on release for the first part

[odd mica]

thank you both <3

[vast belfry]

hello

[sterile dove]

Hi

[lost fable]

They wont have proxys. They use transfer pakets so you send players to other servers

[manic totem]

I feel like it'll still get made anyway. There's a few security benefits to being able to hide everything away on local ips, which with transfer packets you can't do

And for scalability reasons, kubernetes is a big one, and having to expose every single container to the internet just for transfer packets is a bit extra

[undone creek]

``` this is waht slikey said about it

[manic totem]

I know what they said, and I agree with them. Transfer packets will be a very helpful tool. However, there's still security benefits to a proxy, and it's a bit of a hassle with Kubernetes & orchestration shenanigans

I doubt they'll make a proxy, they have no need to, which is fine. But doesn't make a proxy irrelevant

[undone creek]

More was said about it in another discord that i am in along with josbot and others that are in the ugc space but thats fair]\

[manic totem]

Fair, I'll have to pick Jos' brain about this eventually

[undone creek]

ill send you a invite for it '

[manic totem]

oki

[manic pine]

do we know whether hytale uses gradle or maven?

[fierce fulcrum]

there are civilized persons so they'll use gradle :p

[jolly leaf]

def a good point, the MC community loves to ddos so the attack surface is increased for hytale.

additionally most "anti ddos" knowledge is centered around tcp. Less experience with udp based connections(quic).

Maybe build an integration that opens ports for source ips selectively when they are sent to the specific instance

[manic totem]

That's definitely an option, yeah

[vast belfry]

i want to make a hypixel minigame like bedwars when hytale drops bro

[jolly leaf]

I would be interested if the payload is signed in some sort or whether the server needs to pack signature in the payload/pass the data somehow differently. We can't trust the client with it's inventory probably haha

[nimble crow]

Do we know if there is going to be redstone-style interactivity on launch? That was a pretty big part of why I liked Minecraft.

[fringe ore]

If not im sure it will be added by a plugin

[blissful egret]

no but simon said if someone makes a good enough mod they're just gonna add it to the game and hire the people thay made it.

[vast belfry]

no

[jolly leaf]

I wonder how many people will try to make exactly that starting on day 1 :D

[nimble crow]

Fair enough. I would be surprised if there wasn't already a group forming

[vast belfry]

yep i think to many ppl will try to make that so they may land a job at hypixel studio

[vast belfry]

maybe ppl who have already big server in minecraft have a team already and the smart choice to start from day 1

[viscid wren]

just realized there's no default support for JSON in Java

How do y'all live like this 😭

[sterile dove]

What u mean

[near raptor]

Jackson or Gson

[solemn brook]

They are adding it soon

[viscid wren]

Like in javascript if you want some quickly structured data you can just be like

const user = {
name: "Flawda",
money: 1000,
friends: [someId, anotherId]
}

I think you have to create a map of maps or something 💀

[solemn brook]

JSON api not serialization

Because json was made for JavaScript

[viscid wren]

Its so quick and easy 😭

[near raptor]

In Java, you represent stuff in objects, not in arbitrary dictionaries or maps. Java is strongly typed, JavaScript is not :p

[vast belfry]

its ez to in java too and more type safety

[near raptor]

So you don't need a way to represent JSON in Java, only a way to serialize / deserialize it

[solemn brook]

JavaScript object notation iirc

[viscid wren]

Whats the best way in java to do like nested properties? Like say you wanted to some thing like user.friends[0].id, do you just make a map of maps?

[solemn brook]

No you make a friends list inside of the user object

[sterile dove]

Not sure if thats recommended

[vast belfry]

no u create a class for each layer

[solemn brook]

If you want it typed like that you need to use serielization and deserialuzafion but if you just want to read JSON google has a JSON api

[sterile dove]

user.getFriends().get(0).getId();

[solemn brook]

Look at records it’s easiest

[viscid wren]

Interesting

I guess im too javascript brained

[ancient bluff]

Ayo,
Is there any information on whether entity models will be able to be procedurally generated/altered via coding?
Talking about gradually changing the transforms (and textures) of a models individual "blocks", kind of like shapekeys on a traditional model

[vast belfry]

im too but when i switched i didnt face alot of headaches

[viscid wren]

This is the thing that has confused me the most, because even within javascript classes you can create a JSON object with nested properties, it's not required to make a new class for that

[vast belfry]

javascript is more flexible but this comes with price and its the type safety in java no u have to declare everything

[viscid wren]

I have found the type system in Java to be a lot better than the jangled mess typescript is

[pulsar obsidian]

.

[rich solar]

Time for the good ol

public User(String hytaleId, String username, long xp, int level, long firstJoinDate, long lastJoinDate) {
        this.hytaleId= hytaleId;
        this.username = username;
        this.xp = xp;
        this.level = level;
        this.firstJoinDate = firstJoinDate;
        this.lastJoinDate = lastJoinDate;
    }

[near raptor]

data class User(val hytaleId: String, val username: String, val xp: Long, val evel: Int, val firstJoinDate: Long, val lastJoinDate: Long)

Ain't nobody got time for boilerplate

[gloomy ore]

what is this?

[rich solar]

I wont be using boilerplate setups but its for all the new users LOL

[fringe ore]

They could probably jjst buy the code/plugin

[vast belfry]

and if they were tallented programmers hytale will benif more by hiring them

[fringe ore]

True, what about the vibe coders lol

[clear lodge]

Type inference is kinda awesome tho

[vast belfry]

idk about thos wierd ppl

[viscid wren]

True

[mossy maple]

thats the datastore confiremd ? or each server and their own datastore

[viscid wren]

Everyone is stealing my totally unique idea of being the first hytale server

[fringe ore]

Lol

[fallow egret]

[rich solar]

It was just a boilerplate I wrote in this chat. It would be for DBmanager with getters/setters. Whereas the other example is more for Kotlin

[rich solar]

Right so unfair!

[fallow egret]

Hi everyone!

I’m very interested in creating or contributing to a project that would recreate a SAO-style server in Hytale — an MMO-RPG where players can explore, progress, craft, trade, and interact freely, while also having AI-driven “player-like” characters to make the world feel alive.

If a similar project already exists, I’d love to learn more about it and potentially get involved!

Thanks!

[viscid wren]

😭

[fallow egret]

( i'm french )

[vast belfry]

salut

[fallow egret]

hey

[rich solar]

The real question is do I integrate a staff ticket system for support with my discord bot/server or keep an internal one separate in Hytale.

[viscid wren]

If its going to be separate anyways just keep all the discord stuff contained on discord