server-plugins-read-only

[clear wedge]

It's absolutely not worth building servers with 128GB now; all the servers we build here are now 9950X with 192GB

[rose atlas]

they are gonna be opening the server source when they legally can.

[clear wedge]

I'm going to prepare about 5 of these machines; I think that will be enough for this region

[formal burrow]

People are stacking as much RAM as possible rn with people wanting to run their own LLMs as that's what's required rn

[rose atlas]

YOU CAN SEE HOW THE CLIENT IS LOADING ASSETS FROM THE SERVER ITS CONNECTING TO

[clear lodge]

They’ve been pretty clear about client not being moddable. We’ll see how it pans out but I’m sure Hytale team is aware of the limitations

[twilit phoenix]

I don't think it will take long for someone to port it to C#, there are many people who don't like Java.

[old moon]

The carbage collection is going to take a couple of years

[clear wedge]

Yeah, I was having a lot of problems, with processors running out of space and not a single drop of RAM

[rose atlas]

YOU CAN LITERALLY MOD ALMSOT EVERYTHING WITHOUT NEEDING TO TOUCH THE CLIENT

[clear wedge]

Over the years, evolution happens

[formal burrow]

OVH's VPS tiers are generous, I saw they did well in benchmarks. Their eco line is apparently very good.

[old moon]

true true

[green atlas]

Yeah, If nothing is public I might just do it for myself as I want to run a server day 1 but have no desire to do java, I switched my stack away from it 5 years ago and don't really wish to go back

[rose atlas]

I think heavily modded servers will need to setup CDN for its assets...

[green atlas]

Would a x2565 xeon run hytale well enough?

[rose atlas]

we dont have any spec requirements

[green atlas]

ah

[clear wedge]

Are you talking about playing games or a dedicated server?

[green atlas]

dedicated server, I have a few old poweredge servers in my homelab

[old moon]

bro imagine playing games on a xeon processor

[twilit phoenix]

If you do it, please use .NET 10; modding with C# 14 would be beautiful.

[clear wedge]

I'm not entirely sure, but I think Xeon processors don't perform very well in some games, do they?

[green atlas]

Would pretty much be the plan.

[formal burrow]

what are some cheaper hosts?

[rose atlas]

i would honestly build a machine for $600 and homelab servers xD

[formal burrow]

im not doing that

[rose atlas]

you dont have to ofc it s just an option

[green atlas]

Crap, I think Phychz was my old host

fairly priced

[rich solar]

I have home environments and they are fun. I have 3x servers currently.

[clear wedge]

For those of you out there, the web hosting market is growing a lot here in Brazil. I receive daily client requests from Nitrado. Is it bad there? What are the best options? G-Portal, Bisect?

[twilit phoenix]

Why doesn't someone just ask Simon how modding works? He'd probably answer without any problems.

[rose atlas]

Bisect i heard is realllly terrible

[formal burrow]

We have PLENTY of options here in America, most though are resellers

[rich solar]

Right now I would say take a look at Ionos if you are interested. They can be cheaper. We have a private deal with our current host so I cant say much about it 🙂

[rose atlas]

You guys familiar with FiveM Right?

[rich solar]

But IONOS is my current outside hoster

[clear wedge]

yeh

[rose atlas]

I wonder if server owners will be able to change background image and stuff when player connects their server

[rich solar]

most likely

[clear wedge]

I think so, there have already been articles about UI design

[leaden crystal]

like gmod style 😅

[twilit phoenix]

I don't think it will happen in early access, maybe in the future if the community wants it.

[clear lodge]

Yeah it can just be one of the first things sent in the handshake

[green atlas]

Would be a nice QOL thing having like loading_banner.png in the server files simular to server_icon.png

[clear wedge]

Same on FiveM

Before it was just images, now it can be videos, with music playing, pause, start?

[amber cape]

High probable

[rose atlas]

I really hope they kept this Server listing UI - it's great IMO.

[clear wedge]

Who knows

[green atlas]

also being able to change the "Look here for tips thing"

[clear wedge]

Beautiful

[rose atlas]

Its great that it allows for servers to preview itself before users join and have the client spend time to download its custom content

[amber cape]

Zaid any idea about plugins if it’s confirmed that are gonna be built using Java for servers ?

[rose atlas]

this channel itself LOL

[amber cape]

Perfect mate

Im on phone, I couldn’t read that

[rose atlas]

oh

u can swipe to the left and it'll show

[green atlas]

I know it's down the road but anyone know how bugs / feature requests will be dealt with? github, own website etc?

[rose atlas]

i wonder if they're still going with the UPnP system

[clear wedge]

I think there should be something dedicated exclusively to hosting

[rose atlas]

🤷‍♂️

[amber cape]

Never knew they’ve planning that. Maybe yes but for the early access not surely but maybe who knows

[rose atlas]

i just noticed... that section used to say built-in anticheat.. not anymore.

[rose atlas]

MP stuff will probably be the 1st stuff to fully work?

since that's its whole point...

[wintry jungle]

They forget about the Cloudflare token on insights lol

[rose atlas]

oh this changed too

[amber cape]

Aouch, I’ll dive deep into that for sure if there is nothing made by the team the moment they give us resources

[clear lodge]

It’s ok, cloudflare exploded anyway /s

[wintry jungle]

Better use Clarity

[rose atlas]

i wanna be one of the first 100 users to buy hytale!

[pine hornet]

I think this game has massive potential to make us all money

[rose atlas]

its gonna put food on the table for some people ye

[pine hornet]

I think not for some but for many

[clear wedge]

yes

[clear wedge]

That's right, it's going to be something completely new, long-lasting; those who start early will succeed

[pine hornet]

My issue is I got too many things I want to work on 🙂

[rose atlas]

im gonna launch multiple servers 🔥

[pine hornet]

Yes. I think early birds here have incredible advantages

[clear wedge]

And I'm going to sell several kskskks

[pine hornet]

Me too. Just trying different things until one clicks

[clear wedge]

Yes, even more so because the game will support the community

[rose atlas]

im gonna make heavily modded custom servers

and mini games - like kart racing maybe

[pine hornet]

A Mario kart kinda game would be really cool. But I guess that will be a lot of work

My first thing is making a rank system so players can have different ranks and permissions.

[rose atlas]

was just discussing that - a "core" plugin for servers to have

[pine hornet]

Yep. Exactly what I wanted to do

Just some basic stuff

And if you have that base you can easily built plenty of different things on top of that

[covert adder]

I have a question: will plugin development for Hytale be the same or similar to plugin development for Minecraft? NOTE: plugins, not mods.

[tame nexus]

Sir, no stealing I own hytalecore com among many others its one i have planned but tbf i think a lot will do it as a way to learn the docs 🤣

[summer sapphire]

It will be Java so similar in that regard

[plush torrent]

pretty much every minecraft server owner will be making a server

i had a domain bought 6 years ago I guess its time I repurchase lol

[rose atlas]

🤓

[plush torrent]

anyone who just tries to immediately make a server without even trying to play/learn/enjoy the game I think has the absolute wrong approach anyways thats the way to do it

[rose atlas]

i will play hytale

[plush torrent]

itll be interesting seeing like 10 versions of every popular minecraft plugin pop up in the first few weeks/months though lol

question is which ones will be popular/get updated

[lilac grove]

There are some people who love starting communitites, I know I do.

[rose atlas]

i will start a community 😇

[lilac grove]

For me its probably going to be an essentials type of plugin with set of commands useful for admins

We all know that one thing someone has to do but no capability for.

[plush torrent]

I mean I do too, I used to run a minecraft server for like 5 years that was a decent size, I just think that going full steam ahead 100% trying to speedrun making everything right at the start isnt practical

[lilac grove]

True

[pine hornet]

I wonder if things like banning and kicking is already in the base game

[plush torrent]

especially since realistically nobody is going to do everything, as other people make things/build things/have different ideas it'll do better at shaping the idea of the game/capabilities

[lilac grove]

The question is how good it is. Usually you need something better due to alting and cheating.

[plush torrent]

plus no offense to the game what-so-ever but who knows if it will even be successful/popular, its a different landscape from 10 years ago and a lot of the minecraft community has gotten older (by all means I hope it does well)

but I do think the one big advantage it has is that there will be a lot of minecraft youtubers who try it

[covert adder]

nice, thanks for the info

[pine hornet]

Yep. All my ideas aren’t really things where people are competing against each other. But anti cheat will be a big thing which will divide good from bad servers in the long run.
I also can imagine someone selling such a anti cheat plugin could make bank. Sell the shovels in a gold rush

[pine hornet]

It’s a gamble. But if it works out it will be massive

[lilac grove]

One thing Ill defo like is a place for having an overall download size for mods.

[plush torrent]

Yeah honestly I'm not going to lie my primary goal with hytale is to try to make money. I'm just undecided on the server approach vs development but I completely agree

servers make crazy money but its a big commitment and a lot of luck involved, vs selling a plugin for 5 bucks with thousands of downloads thatmight not take long to make

[lilac grove]

For me its always been plugins, just make servers as a place to test stuff, atleast for me.

[pine hornet]

Mine too. If there wasn’t money involved I would keep working at the things I am working on currently

[plush torrent]

10 years ago my answer would've definitely been different when I was deep in the minecraft server stuff

[pine hornet]

Yep

[plush torrent]

but now im a workin man lol

[lilac grove]

Same, I used to do mc servers a while back, then shifted games and focused on plugins more. It does make money, but when a server pops off, it makes a lot more in the long run if the community is done right and not a cash grab

[pine hornet]

But I won’t bother about monetizing my servers at the start. I will just focus on gaining a playerbase

[plush torrent]

yeah I mean if I made a server I'd be investing a lot of money into it at the start for sure, but I mean I wouldnt just run one at a loss as a hobby with no goal for profitability

[lilac grove]

The only way you dont end up investing money is you are the devs yourself, which helps a lot.

[pine hornet]

Yep

[rose atlas]

i had to copy this server's reporting system for my bot XD

[plush torrent]

either way i mean I used to run a server im more than familiar with the costs and investments and business side of it, it aint cheap (cough advertisement)

[rose atlas]

I wanna run a heavily modded network with variety of custom modes like kart racing, prop hunt, slasher, maybe a ripoff squid game XD

[pine hornet]

I also tried my luck with opening Minecraft servers back then but nothing worked. Never got more than 20 players

[plush torrent]

tbf it might have changed since back when I did it but development was never that expensive of a cost

I used to average like 100ish players, nothing crazy big but probably 80%+ of expenses was just advertisement related

[pine hornet]

I will pretty much go the opposite direction and do one server for each game and see if it works

[plush torrent]

this is one thing I was really curious about, what a bungeecord sort of equivalent would be on hytale

[pine hornet]

Yeah advertisement is a big cost

[plush torrent]

I wonder what the plan is for supporting sort of cross-server networks like that

[rose atlas]

i think bungeecord like

[pine hornet]

Day 1 support

[plush torrent]

I mean Im sure no doubt they will I just wonder how they plan to implement it

[pine hornet]

Not sure about details. But I am sure we will know the next couple of days/weeks

[plush torrent]

yeah im just saying thats one of the things that im curious to see about, same with the UI components, I'm sure it'll be way different than the minecraft chest UIs with items, interested to see what sort of tools/customizability it has

that was one of the things that was always annoying about the minecraft plugins for me was the very limited UI capabilities

[pine hornet]

Yep

[plush torrent]

maybe theyve already given info on that though, I havent followed all the posts too religiously

[rose atlas]

ofc - there wont be chest ui's XD

[plush torrent]

yeah I mean Im sure it wont be that, im just saying I wonder what sort of support/capabilities hytale will have

[pine hornet]

They said we will be able to change pretty much anything

[rose atlas]

you can create ur own actual UI's without stupid tricks..

it uses something called noesisengine

[pine hornet]

The question is how much work specific things take

[plush torrent]

honestly im not familiar with noesis, I'll have to look it up

hopefully it supports letting me force pop-up ad UIs on the free players and sell a no ad gameplay (kidding lmao)

lol that would be demonic

[pine hornet]

Hahah

Watch this short ad to continue playing

Honestly, I might add a battle pass to one of my servers in the future

[plush torrent]

I was thinking more like a viagra ad on the sidebar

[rose atlas]

That happens on FiveM

[plush torrent]

interesting thanks

[dapper nova]

Upon release, I will begin working on a Towny plugin for Hytale

[zinc hare]

After seeing the last YT post from Hytale this is what came up in my mind

[frozen crown]

finished writing a js runtime in pure c so I can embed it anywhere, maybe even as a hytale plugin I hope

[true current]

now make it in rust

[frozen crown]

but thats boring and easy

I like already basically did that twice

[true current]

do it for the 3rd time now

[frozen crown]

nuuuuuu

[tepid lily]

how about 4th time?

[rose atlas]

what about it?

[shell zodiac]

i just like it lol, i wonder how outdated it is?

[rose atlas]

i doubt that much.

@shell zodiac

i hope they keep that UI tho cause i really like it

[tawdry palm]

wow i really like this

[nocturne rune]

hi mack :)

[frozen crown]

hii

[sly shuttle]

Does anyone know if there’s going to be a Spigot-like system for servers, or if they’re going for something more like Minecraft’s datapacks?

[rose atlas]

Its going to be full plugins / mods natively

[sly shuttle]

[shell zodiac]

what the skeleton doin?

[rose atlas]

In time out corner

[shell zodiac]

yeahhh frfr

[tawdry palm]

x-raying to someone

[earnest delta]

as the skeleton, i can confirm

[shell zodiac]

ok, sorry but imma have to ban you from the server for x-raying

[woeful depot]

configurable stack count

[west elk]

lol planks is a rock

[woeful depot]

xD

I wonder what are other categories

[lavish niche]

I hope the devs do regional pricing

[worn bough]

where did you find this?

[elder socket]

X

[woeful depot]

check simon's replies

[worn bough]

which post

[gritty current]

@vital jetty Publish the API, bro. We creators are eager to learn everything for the server .

[echo river]

that's not a kweebec?

[shell zodiac]

it looks like skeleton to me

[errant marlin]

they are still not in the game

[shell zodiac]

? wait really?

[errant marlin]

when the video was recorded they weren't in it

[echo river]

ah in the video, but not today

[errant marlin]

so i think they will be added in these days before the release

[errant marlin]

i don't know when they will add them

[shell zodiac]

yeah but we have screenshots of them from buddahcat

[lunar swan]

Now, let's hope that Quality and Categories are customizable too, but considering everything we've heard up until now, it's not absurd to think it's possible. What a time to be alive. Imagine if all game studios had the same approach regarding modding, everything would be so much easier, and the games would last so much longer thanks to the community...

[errant marlin]

We have seen a lot of things that will be different in the final game. Also the 16 minutes of video gameplay are already "old" because they modify some files after the release of the video

[scarlet spoke]

There is always something which is missing. Let's hope we get a plattform where we can discuss/vote for needed features

So, Java 24 for server might be a thing

[rose atlas]

We need to wait for exact details

[civic hill]

25, kthx

no reason to stop right before the LTS :)

[scarlet spoke]

Hopefully 24 => 25 is kinda same and had just some performance fixes for the API we need to use

[civic hill]

I mean yeah

if it runs on 24 it'll run on 25

[misty gyro]

java 25 has been already mentioned by slikey also that QUIC is the protocol

[scarlet spoke]

Oh u got a screenshot to share?

[misty gyro]

just check twitter from slikey he already mentioned it

[scarlet spoke]

Will do

[fleet plover]

Didn't know what QUIC was, but it seems interesting from what I read

[granite raptor]

I knew about it but thought it was only used for HTTP 3

[open elk]

Will we be able to write malbolge for server plugins? 🥀

[lucid rock]

hope

[topaz walrus]

Most game engines use custom protocols very similar to QUIC

[odd flare]

Finally someone not scared of using QUIC

[unique berry]

Finally some good QUIC

[odd flare]

And I can't wait to have flecs in the game

[topaz walrus]

Anyone here used Capn proto?

[unique berry]

not personally

[jovial turtle]

TRUST

[flat forum]

Is there any documentation about what making plugins for Hytale will look like yet?

[pseudo lantern]

not sure, the only info we got is their mod creator tool

but im mainly interested in coding plugins

[flat forum]

ah, is the modding api out yet?

or like, info about it

[fleet plover]

No

[pseudo lantern]

not yet

[fleet plover]

We know that the server will use java 24 or 25

and the communication protocol is QUIC but that's it

[pseudo lantern]

also client is C#

[cloud sun]

hytale.click

[cloud sun]

enter this domain in google

[fleet plover]

ok

[pseudo lantern]

lol

[unique berry]

... google?

[pseudo lantern]

gooombus make it global clicks

[cloud sun]

your search engine

[flat forum]

I wonder what the early servers are gonna be like

[pseudo lantern]

we are so excited to make ours

[cloud sun]

type it in bing then

[fleet plover]

mostly survival stuff

[unique berry]

you already gave the url there's no need for a search engine lol

[cloud sun]

you need to actually type it in a search engine though

[fleet plover]

No

[unique berry]

No you don't you're confused about what a search engine is

[fleet plover]

browser != search engine

google chrome is a browser, google is a search engine

[cloud sun]

yeah

I know

[fleet plover]

Same

[cloud sun]

wait nvm

im dumb

[fleet plover]

@pseudo lantern What kind of server are you going to do ?

[pseudo lantern]

we just throwing ideas. also its hard to know atm with the little info we have. however we are planning on doing skyblock | prison

[fleet plover]

I see, good luck

[pseudo lantern]

the website is being designed rn but without knowing how sprites look etc its placeholders rn

[bitter nacelle]

My concern is that people are just gonna make Minecraft again and so players would prefer a more stable experience over something unknown. I think this is a great time to consider how creators can innovate with a new platform and fresh expectations

[fleet plover]

We are going to work on a RPG/MMORPG server, but even with a dozen of ppl I know it will be hell to make it work / have a decent chunk of work done

[unique berry]

Right that's the reason why we need the protocol to understand all the quirky stuff that you can do

[pseudo lantern]

i mean hytale is a sandbox for us so you can make it v immersive

[fleet plover]

yep

[sterile dove]

sadly most things dont support java 25 yet

so i would be fine with 21-24

[civic hill]

define "most things"?

[steady rover]

yea none

[unique berry]

what do you mean by most thins

[pseudo lantern]

add me- so we can stay in contact

ill share our plans and repos we made so far

[civic hill]

if you're talking minecraft stuff, yeah thats because they need to bump the ASM library to the latest version. but thats simple enough to do

[sterile dove]

kotlin compiler has beta release for 25 support, but there is for sure a lot of things

[unique berry]

Add me aswell 🙏

[steady rover]

till the src is out some time will pass

[pseudo lantern]

sure

[bitter nacelle]

Something to also consider is how unstable early development is gonna be. Working on a tech stack like an MMO or Skyblock is gonna be nearly impossible to keep up with along with a rapidly developing platform.

[civic hill]

right, kotlin. java itself is fine tho

[tepid quest]

Dude there are gonna be hundreds of MMOs being made in it .

[sterile dove]

but using the newest version released few months ago might not be the best thing to do

[pseudo lantern]

itll be fun making anticheat tho antidupes etc excited to start it

[pseudo lantern]

i wouldnt

[fleet plover]

I agree for MMO, not so much for skyblock

[pseudo lantern]

MMO is more manable at the start. but we have a roadmap for skyblock in place

[civic hill]

why not? it's the new LTS version.

and realistically it's either that or 21

[fleet plover]

Still, it's a project that we are interested in since years ago, and in the meanwhile most of us graduated

[pseudo lantern]

i grad last year now ive moved country last week lol

[fleet plover]

nice

Where are you now ?

[pseudo lantern]

germany

[unique berry]

graduated from what

[sterile dove]

even aws just 6 days ago added java 25 support for lambdas, and If u search github for add java 25 support there is a lot of huge projects with issues for it

[fleet plover]

from college, having skills helps for making a server x)

[sterile dove]

ik its lts, doesnt mean if u get new version that u should use it the second its released

doesnt matter lts or not at that point if its not fully supported yet

[fleet plover]

^

[pseudo lantern]

whats everyone first goals for plugin creation? as we all need to build up-

itll be interesting coz i image we will develop the same plugins in areas as nothing is. 'popular' rn

[fleet plover]

Permission stuff and restrictions

[pseudo lantern]

for me its anticheats antidupes

idk if the base game will come with an anticheat? i asusme not coz how open the game will be

[sterile dove]

bugfix plugins might not be worth to do at the start, because im sure there will be a lot of bugs and they are quick on fixing them, but imean ofc if its something u cant live with

[misty gyro]

I would not say that this will be their first priority right now 😄

[pseudo lantern]

fair point

[sterile dove]

But for fun and learning its always worth it to code what u want:)

[fierce fulcrum]

I don't know to which point the distributed game will have some great "plugin sharing mecanisms" but i would'nt be surprised that we'll need to have a framework to design plugins around which enable plugins to work together ?

[pseudo lantern]

no ofc-
but also its time managment, i dont wanna use time on areas where i can focus on others. we only hav 2 devs for our server so time is imprtant

[sterile dove]

my old router kept overheating so i added old cpu cooler heatsink to hit, just laying on top of the other heatsink and now its so cool:D I could add thermal pads ect but not needed

[fierce fulcrum]

If i've got time i'd love to try to design some plugins I had envisioned when i was active in the minecraft community but couldn't do because of how troublesome it was to make server plugins that modifies heavily the game

I'm no longer a student so i sure have less time now than i used to 🥲

[pseudo lantern]

yeh understandable- but see it as a fun way to learn more. for me i work remote and freelance so i time manage a bit easier

[fierce fulcrum]

Yeah well i work in computer science research now ^^ so i mostly spend my time at home working on my research projects :p

[pseudo lantern]

research projects.... ooooof i dont miss that

idk research drained me a lot and the hours is crazy

[fierce fulcrum]

When you like it that's a super cool job !!!!!

currently at work but wanted to see what the discord looked like

[pseudo lantern]

yh if you like the research side then it must be fun. one of my mates loves that and now is doing his Dr but i just cant do it. it hurts me

[pseudo lantern]

same- i set a 30 min timer LOL

[fierce fulcrum]

might be nice but at the same time i believe a lot of people will want to add what we did on minecraft
a part of me wants to let this game have it's own ideas and not just copy what we used to do on mc

Of course factions plugins for example would be soooo cool

[pseudo lantern]

^ exactly... we are looking at custom bosses for skyblock etc. reimagine it a bit

maybe therell come a new gamemode who knnows

[fierce fulcrum]

If we're really able to customize the game however we wants i'd love to implement some gameplays i've thought about but couldn't do at the time

[pseudo lantern]

stuff like this is what i mean! like an MMO skyrim style adventure

[warped gate]

Novody knows when we can download the servers files and how to setup? Tankiuuu ❤️

[pseudo lantern]

imagine SMPs but with custom mobs, custom NPCs and pathfinding. no work arounds its all built in!

[fierce fulcrum]

I wanted for a long time to do a skyblock style thing were you can visit and conquer other island and extract ressources
with ships and all

I had a loooooot of ideas about this but couldn't find the time and the courage to do it 🥲

[fierce fulcrum]

I belive Simon said it will be possible to host our own server when it starts

[warped gate]

Yeees for it

[pseudo lantern]

interesting 👀 if you find it we can link up maybe collab on certain areas

[fierce fulcrum]

I have a lot of concerns about the fact that it will be only server side things ? and i don't know how much of it will be editable but i'll wait and see

[pseudo lantern]

they have showcased the mod tool

[fierce fulcrum]

oh didn't see that one ?

[pseudo lantern]

it shows editing custom portal animations etc

[fierce fulcrum]

I saw the gameplay plans and i had concerns too about other aspects of the game but not the mod / asset creation thing

[pseudo lantern]

yes i too

for me its the dedicated servers- i think hytale hosts them? or am i trippin

[fierce fulcrum]

No i don't thinks so, it would be really weird

[pseudo lantern]

hmmm ok maybe it was just a rumor

[fierce fulcrum]

Like the whole idea behind Hytale is to let the community do whatever they want with the game, being only able to host them to the hytale thing would be counterproductive
it would also mean you won't be able to host your server on your computer

[pseudo lantern]

yehhh but did you see the message about fees after 2 years?

[fleet plover]

that would be really strange yea

[fierce fulcrum]

no ?

[fleet plover]

Pretty sure it's for transactions on the server itself

[pseudo lantern]

simon said theres no fees for the first 2 years then we gotta pay or sometihn? look at his tweet

[fleet plover]

let me find the tweet

[pseudo lantern]

it was very broad. could also mean cost of plugins, a marketplace like bedrock edition...

[fleet plover]

"Hytale will take 0% from modders and server owners for at least the first 2 years.

We will trust that they bring us players; that is all.

We will not have any exclusivity clauses.

By the players, for the players."

Feel like it's for a marketplace of some sorts

[fierce fulcrum]

Yeah i believe it would be for a marketplace thing

[pseudo lantern]

but from modders? so they will host plugins to 'buy'?

[fierce fulcrum]

the "We will not have any exclusivity clauses" is a bit weird

[fleet plover]

a plugin is almost the same thing as a mod tbf

[fierce fulcrum]

not sure to understand the meaning

[pseudo lantern]

this would be annoying. taking a fee from in game purchases. maybe they will have a minecoin style where u use that curency to buy stuff in the servers

[fleet plover]

Maybe it means that you can sell it / distribute it outside the marketplace ?

[fierce fulcrum]

Big nono but if they don't support client modding then everything will kinda be a plugin

[pseudo lantern]

brug if they make a minecoin system for server purchases lol

[fierce fulcrum]

I mean i wouldn't be surprise there is a family friendly list of things you can install and other things you need to be responsible of what you do with your game license

[charred halo]

Obviously because a contract could force you to only create on Hytale and not on the MC Marketplace, which would make all studios spitting on the game.
UGC Studios wants to be able to create on multiple games at the same time to diversify their activity and income

[fierce fulcrum]

let's hope not 😢

[fleet plover]

the minecoin system is not bad by itself imo

[pseudo lantern]

it seems they are hinting at that imo

[fierce fulcrum]

Oh well yeah that works

[fierce fulcrum]

The problem is that it's the only way to add things
Like having a paid (where products are checked for family friendly things), a free marketplace (where they aren't checked) is a great thing
but only having the first is kinda bad

[charred halo]

That also includes exclusivity on the actual content. Let's say you make a weapons mod, with some kind of exclusivity clause you could be forced to only sell those weapons models on Hytale and not port them to multiple UGC platform (like publish it on the bedrock marketplace and roblox at the same time)

[tacit jewel]

hytale is now on C++ or java?

[shrewd cipher]

Java

[tacit jewel]

thanks

[lilac grove]

Server-side is Java, client is C#

[pseudo lantern]

werid question. do you guys think we will be able to imploment cut scenes?

our storyline needs them itll be nice to have

[fierce fulcrum]

Well why could'nt we ? as long as you can move the player around and change its velocity dynamicly that's possible

[pseudo lantern]

in the way of cinematic styling. like force camera position in certain areas and move for you

[fierce fulcrum]

And there seems to be a "trailer style" thing in the game so the viewpoint seems to be editable

[fierce fulcrum]

Well see how we do it in minecraft then, spawning a fake player and moving the real player around always work

[pseudo lantern]

yes but itll be ideal to not be doing that

[tidal solar]

Do we know yet how servers are going to work?

[pseudo lantern]

to be able to force camera posoitons and custom animations into cutscenes

scroll up thers info about languag etc

[fierce fulcrum]

🤷 when you've got a good hammer everything is a nail
as long as you've got the toolbox to do it that will never be too hard

[fierce fulcrum]

We've got no really precise information but our common guess is that it will looks a lot like how minecraft works

[tidal solar]

So technically, will someone have to create a Spigot/Paper-type API to run the thing? Or is Hytale providing one by default?

[fierce fulcrum]

No that part seems to be inside the server already

From what I understood at least

[tidal solar]

Alright, that should make creation a lot easier, I guess — especially if they don’t restrict anything

[fierce fulcrum]

That's the thing we don't really know :p

[novel jungle]

Opinion of Will the servers that can be created appear in the public server list, or will people need to use an IP? This is to know what kind of security we should adopt regarding public IPs, etc

[tidal solar]

I think that will be like Minecraft

[pseudo lantern]

mhmm so maybe sometih like; if (event.time <= elapsed) event.action.run();
to trigger evnts?

[tidal solar]

I hope it’ll be like Minecraft, because having a list of all existing servers would be terrifying

[pseudo lantern]

ideally id like to make a video in blender and use that as an overlay

[novel jungle]

But more secure

[fierce fulcrum]

And I think a looooot of people here tends to forget how hard it will be at first when no common plugins or standart api is done 🥲

No luckperms, no bungee, no worldguard :p

[tidal solar]

Can you imagine having a list of hundreds of servers with 1 or 0 players?

[tidal solar]

Yeah really

[pseudo lantern]

exaclt yhwat i said earlier

[novel jungle]

I already have my professional equipment for a network

[fierce fulcrum]

Think of a keyframe style implementation

[novel jungle]

Yes...

[tidal solar]

just definition of Hell x)

[pseudo lantern]

yeh thats teh first option ill add to get it running. itll be jut njice to have maybe sometihng like new CutsceneEvent(1.5, () -> videoService.playOverlay(player, "wreck_intro"));
and call for a cusotm video overlay and lock the player position

[fierce fulcrum]

Shouldn't be too hard to extract a list of main points from your animation and the easing function

[pseudo lantern]

igy just wanna make a nice cinematic video cutscene

ignore mistakes i cba to write properly before I know anytihgng

[fierce fulcrum]

Then your best bet is to do a list of positions and view angle and transition smoothly between them using the movement and angle velocity as much as possible to not have a jumpy feeling client side

Not perfect but works ok-tier for a first implementation

[lilac grove]

The tech lead did say on X that they'll work on a server hosting manual when they are less busy, they cant respond to those queries for now.

but my bet is most of the APIs are going to be in the game itself.

[pseudo lantern]

yh this is wat we are thinking to get it launched. im just too much on it maybe idk

[fierce fulcrum]

I really don't think so

Would be a hell to maintain on their side

[pseudo lantern]

they need to cut csots as much as they can now after the buy out

[tidal solar]

Do we know if there’s any early access planned for professional creators? To start producing content before the release?

[lilac grove]

True, atleast the barebones stuff. Like for example they mentioned sending players to different servers with encrypted packets, kind of mimicing bungeecord.

[fierce fulcrum]

Otherwise your best bet is to use bezier curve to smooth everything i guess ?

[fierce fulcrum]

i belive you can find people online that wants to create things on hytale but building something on a game not yet is realeased is a bit odd to my hears

[gleaming pecan]

Im guessing only for youtubers, uncomfirmed though

[fierce fulcrum]

Well Hypixel team did create the first bungeecord version iirc

[tidal solar]

I’m talking about content like mobs, weapons, etc

[gleaming pecan]

But i think most tools will be available day one

[pseudo lantern]

i cant paste in what we have already as its too large of a text but its a rough idea kinda what you was getting at. ill paste a spppet below for reference

we have an idea using what you said. this is just rough but gives teh creative flow idea we have in mind to go around the limitation if we cant add a video

class Vec3 {
double x, y, z;

Vec3(double x, double y, double z) {
    this.x = x;
    this.y = y;
    this.z = z;
}

Vec3 add(Vec3 other) {
    return new Vec3(x + other.x, y + other.y, z + other.y); // mistake: z uses y
}

Vec3 sub(Vec3 other) {
    return new Vec3(x - other.x, y - other.y, z - other.z);
}

Vec3 mul(double k) {
    return new Vec3(x * k, y * k, z * k);
}

double length() {
    return Math.sqrt(x * x + y + z * z); 
}

}

[gleaming pecan]

Script jumpscare

[fierce fulcrum]

Well even content i don't understand how you can project style-wise on a game not realeased yet
but you're free to do whatever you wnat

[pseudo lantern]

better than a j*b application

[gleaming pecan]

True true....

[pseudo lantern]

dont worry i censored it

[fierce fulcrum]

Well that's a basic vector implem (you're missing the dot product) but what is your question really ?

[ruby dawn]

thanks nearly fell of my chair reading the massage

[pseudo lantern]

yeh its not in full coz A. i dunno what we can do yet and B. im lazy

just asking for ideas on cinematics

[pseudo lantern]

i censored the word your goooood 😂

[fierce fulcrum]

_i nearly shouted CODE STYLE PLEASE but figured it was not that bad for 10-lines :p _

[pseudo lantern]

omegalul

[fierce fulcrum]

Do you know how animation works basically ?

[gleaming pecan]

Im gonna have nam flashbacks if anyone says the j word

[pseudo lantern]

in the way of: keyframes, interpolation between positions/rotations and using delta time for smooth playback?

[pseudo lantern]

vote to remove the j word can mods plz ban the word

[gleaming pecan]

Me texting this while at one

[pseudo lantern]

HOLY yo you like cpubleguin

bro im the red colour pfp lol

[gleaming pecan]

Yes, specifically the puffles, look at my username :)

[pseudo lantern]

never guessed. u played cpps zero yet?

[gleaming pecan]

Sadly i haven't played any club penguin fan servers, but ive been collecting merch

[pseudo lantern]

try it. it came out last month

[fierce fulcrum]

Ok so you need to also consider the easing function

What I would imagine is a curve in 5d where the first 3d are the position and the 2d are the view angles (pitch/yaw)

if you've got a list of points in this space you can smoothly transition between them using the delta of time between each point and a smoothing function

In this situation your keyframes are the point

Your best bet i guess is too have a function "getPosition(delta time)" which find the interval where time is in your animation timeline and return the 5d vector
You would also need a "getVelocity(delta time)" to send it to the client to have him move in the right way before the next packet is exchanged between server and client

[pseudo lantern]

thank you!!! i didnt think about ptuch yaw.... bru im brainbroken

so incliuding maybe acceleration and deceleration

[fierce fulcrum]

That's why i like bezier curbes, it's really easy to get the velocity depending of the curves

but you could also define the velocity by approximation using the increasing rate (getPosition(time+0.1s) - getPosition(time))/0.1

[fierce fulcrum]

that you don't have to manage, but if you want to accelerate / decelerate you just need to add a point on the curve where you want the speed change to occur and adjust the timing to go from A -> to this point and this point to B

If you use bezier curves on 4 points i guarantees smooth change

[pseudo lantern]

makes sense. thx! i htink i was so fixated on the idea to add a video i didnt give a second thought about alternatives

[fierce fulcrum]

Watch "The Beauty of Bézier Curves" on youtube if you want to be sure to understand ^^

[fierce fulcrum]

No problem !

Btw i may sound really certain about what i say but i never really used this technique in 3d style game, it's supposed to work (the math checks out) and the implem should not be that hard

[pseudo lantern]

all good! its all specuation at this point anyways. kinda hard for myself to invst more time in until theres more info

just we arelooking to make a new gamemode thats storybased and MMO. itll be good to have cutscenes

[fierce fulcrum]

Be aware that a MMO style game is a hell of a work to do ^^ ' ( big ptsd there)

[pseudo lantern]

lol its fine i dont like being happy

insert emo emoji

[fierce fulcrum]

I feel like i'd love to just do gameplay but not code x) I miss designing systems for others to enjoy more than actually making them (it's kinda my work now (even though it's not game))

[lilac grove]

same, I design so many systems now, at this point its not even enjoyment. Its just work.

[fierce fulcrum]

Well in my case it's more that i've got a lot of ideas through the time but always implemented the ones from other ^^ '
so i just want to focus more on the designing part :p

[sterile dove]

next time u put code snippets u can do
(with 3x `) at start and end ```java
code
3x the symbol

[pseudo lantern]

0_o thank you 🙏

[sterile dove]

if (1==2) return;

[pseudo lantern]

v programmy

[fierce fulcrum]

OOOOHHH you actually didn't know it was a thing 🥲

[pseudo lantern]

nah LOL

[fierce fulcrum]

That's what triggered me there :p

[brittle estuary]

function myDad()

[fierce fulcrum]

don't worry in js that might work :p

[brittle estuary]

lmao

[west elk]

No return 💀

[warm hare]

void return type

[ashen blaze]

hello, I have some question about hytale servers. can I write my plug-in to add some new on the game server? and how my players can connect to the server?

[umbral mauve]

Image the function of a plugin is like a mod?
we can add more items if needed!

[split dove]

Make a plugin that allow resources (such as woods and sticks, ores, ingots) stack up to 999 to save space for organizing

[umbral mauve]

But i think Hytale have already full items for us 😄

[bitter nacelle]

The modding documentation is supposed to be released sometime today, so that’ll give you a better idea of what possible. It sounds like plugins = mods in this environment though, so it’s all the same.

well maybe not hte modding docs, but the tweet said we’ll know creative strategy and modding status. hopefully that includes the docs?

[ashen blaze]

I told about the plug-in look like Minecraft plug-ins

chat manager and another

[umbral mauve]

let's gooooooooo

[gleaming pecan]

I expect documentation to be barebones to "okay" at best on day one

[main moon]

AI will write the documentation

[bitter nacelle]

Yeah, we’re in for a few rough few months to start with. Hopefully it’ll be open sourced so PRs can be made to them

[gleaming pecan]

Screaming man emoji

[dawn kiln]

@grok how do i make hytale plugin

[gleaming pecan]

Just... no...

@Gork

[bitter nacelle]

I just asked and grok said you should start with learning how to code cause its clueless besides useless political propaganda :p

-# for legal reasons that’s a joke

[gleaming pecan]

Even if it was good it would still be the most unsecure buggy stuff

[bitter nacelle]

I mean. Junior programmers are a thing still so like.

[gleaming pecan]

Yeah its good for learning

Thats about it

[bitter nacelle]

even on the team I’m working with I made sure to find a better programmer than I xD

[gleaming pecan]

Yeah need someone to learn and grow from

[vague agate]

is the modding languag still gonna be LUAU?

[gleaming pecan]

Im pretty sure not anymore

That was new engine

I think its java and c#(?)

[oak monolith]

Im a software developer with +5 years of experience. Ill be glad to form some kind of team to develop content for Hytale DM me if interested

[bitter nacelle]

The server is Java, the client is C#, it’s intended you mod the server and it’ll be delivered to the client.

Kotlin support is still in the air afaik

[gleaming pecan]

So only java then for servers? Because were not legally allowed to mod the client

[bitter nacelle]

We don’t know anything for sure about “legality” until the EULA/CUG are published.

[unique berry]

The server is immediately going to be rewritten by the community in other langugages lol

[bitter nacelle]

A lot of questions rn are very much “wait and see”

[gleaming pecan]

Yeah of course they expect that after they release server source

[fierce fulcrum]

In the end even if you were gonna mod the client you'd still have you have the same problem as with minecrafts mods
You most likely need a custom server and every player having the same client

[gleaming pecan]

Yeah exactly it just throws it into another accessibility problem

[bitter nacelle]

this is what modding the server directly avoids as a whole. The server is authoritative and your client just has to join. Much better this way.

[fierce fulcrum]

I'm not sure ?
The best thing might be to create a wrapper, not to reimplement everything

[vague agate]

wym order languages?

[fierce fulcrum]

Yeah of course ! That was my point 😅

[unique berry]

i meant Other languages

[bitter nacelle]

Rusty Hytale when/

[unique berry]

as soon as I get the server protocol
lol

[bitter nacelle]

I’d like to avoid seeing a wrapper ngl, just the JNI is hot garbo

[vague agate]

typescript server with bun >>>>

[unique berry]

Why? We have server reimplementations for minecraft and they're better for minigames and such

[fierce fulcrum]

If we could avoid the Minecraft of having a reallllly bad main framework and other good but not used at much better ones
That would be nice 🙂

[fierce fulcrum]

Yeah but they took a lot of time to implement plus it's a nightmare to maintain when there is breaking change

[gleaming pecan]

Yeah if the tools are good enough not many people would want to mod the client anyways and keep things smooth with server content like roblox

[fierce fulcrum]

As an example the main framework (spigot / paper /Bukit) is not really a reimplementation of the game
Because it's much more reliable to standard game mechanics and it's easier to maintain

[gleaming pecan]

Like we dont know the full extent of the tools but they are already 100 lightyears ahead of mc

[fierce fulcrum]

Compared to sponge which at a time took 3 years to upgrade iirc

[fierce fulcrum]

Not that sure 😅

The game is also a lot more complex sooooo

[gleaming pecan]

I mean does mc have an ingame real time editor?

[fierce fulcrum]

Well you can have a mod to do that

But I don't see the point of your question

The in-game editor is for assets not code

[gleaming pecan]

I mean for VANILLA mc?

[gleaming pecan]

We dont know that

Or maybe i mean scripting

[fierce fulcrum]

Yes we do

You won't have a java editor in the game

I believe I saw somewhere they wanted to support a visual style code at some point but not currently

To be honest might want to implem that 😂

[gleaming pecan]

Okay fair, but they are atleast working on it

[fierce fulcrum]

Not currently I believe

That's a lot of work to do, and a lot of tweaking for it to be good UX wise

But it Would be nice to have a hytale development kit for some ide

[crude hill]

Hytale is the result of blood, sweat and tears of the devs who suffered from Minecraft's horrible modding support, don't worry

[fierce fulcrum]

We'll iirc correctly they did totally rewrite the server for the hypixel server 🫠

[gleaming pecan]

Yeah But there's many server jars out there

[fierce fulcrum]

I'm more worried about the abondance of things which leads to me not being able to find an idea that fits with all the gameplay

[crude hill]

elaborate

[fierce fulcrum]

Not that much ? I didn't work in the field for 2 years but I believe it always was a hard task to modify the jar and most of them use paper / spigot and fork it (which is not a rewrite of the server)

[fierce fulcrum]

I did a Reddit post on it but no one saw it 🫠

I like fantasy style thing and the main feature of Minecraft for me is that it have none of it so you can add whatever you want to it
From what we saw they did add some magical things and I'm a little bit worried it will be harder to find gameplays that fit is the default gameplay

I still don't really know how well it will be possible to remove content from the game to overwrite them

[gleaming pecan]

I meam your not gonna know exactly what you want to do day 1 without even knowing the game

[fierce fulcrum]

I already have a lot of ideas that were possible but quirky on Minecraft that might fit nicely there 😅

But I still wait for the release to have a feel of the game and see for myself

I don't want to look pessimistic I know a lot of people are really hyped about the game release it's just that I feel there is something deeply different about having a vanilla game with so many mechanics

[crude hill]

What do you mean by harder to find gameplays that fit the default gameplay?
Minecraft was basically a very toned down fantasy survival game, some mobs were fantasy (enderdragon/endermen) etc...
Hytale does have more RPG/Medieval elements but whatever the default gamemode is, you could always create a game mode that fits your preferences?

[gleaming pecan]

Yeah but those are MC ideas, the hytale server ecosystem may be wildly different

[fierce fulcrum]

Oh still they were thought as big game not as a plugin, I just needed a platform to make them

But overall that's the end of my message, I'll wait and feel it myself

[gleaming pecan]

Yeah we should wait and see but we should also tinker and pioneer as well

[fierce fulcrum]

Okay Minecraft had some fantasy vibe but they were really not that important for most players

Mod like botania, thaumcraft, witchery were able to fill a gap that did not exist in the default game

We don't have a list of all features but it seems to me they want to bit a little bit everywhere

[gleaming pecan]

We have this golden grace period where no one knows what works and is successful so we gotta be bold

[crude hill]

I just don't understand what worries you? If the base game lacks fantasy modders like us will just add it in and if it is overflowing with fantasy we could always tone it down using mods, mods basically make almost anything possible.

[fierce fulcrum]

I never said I won't try to tinker and pioneer ? Actually I never did the things i thought about in mc cause I couldn't

[fierce fulcrum]

It's easier to add a feature people are not accustomed to than remove a feature they know exist in the game

I guess that'll heavily depends on how much does people modify the game

[crude hill]

I think you're not grasping Hytale's vision. It is a sandbox game catered towards modders, unlike Minecraft which was built as a survival/sandbox game for non-modders and modders just wrapped the entire client and server

Editing the base game is the main feature

[gleaming pecan]

Yeah the entire game at launch is about content freedom

[fierce fulcrum]

Noo I get it, really...

[fierce fulcrum]

We had a discussion earlier about whether people will need to pay to publish/or use mods (a tweet from Simon is a little bit weird about that)

[fierce fulcrum]

What I see online is people mostly attracted to the default game

[gleaming pecan]

Im guessing its both

[fierce fulcrum]

That's why I'm fearing this

[fierce fulcrum]

Well I hope it's none and that we have a similar system as Java Minecraft

[crude hill]

could you send me the tweet, that sounds odd.

I assume some assets would cost money, maybe official server hosting and of course the base game.

[fierce fulcrum]

There

[fierce fulcrum]

''Official server hosting'' is a bit weird to my ears 🫠

[gleaming pecan]

I remember someone mentioning the itch io way of "pay if you want" to get stuff

[crude hill]

oh I see what you mean

[fierce fulcrum]

Yeah or having a patron os something I don't care
Having paid assets is not a problem but only enabling that (or leading people to that) I don't like it

I like the open source aspect of the mc community

[crude hill]

but I understand it in a different way

modders could sell mods
server owners could sell things inside the server

Hytale takes a cut, but that doesn’t mean making mods would cost you money

[fierce fulcrum]

But I don't understand why they should take a cut ? Like that's weird

[crude hill]

weird?

[fierce fulcrum]

For assets thing I could understand but for server related thing that's weird

[remote atlas]

Do they take a cut? or a are just making up info

[crude hill]

I'm saying they'd have a marketplace for mods that cost money and if you decide to sell your mod they will take a cut

[fierce fulcrum]

(I don't have tweeter I'm only relying on what was said above)

[crude hill]

there's a person who quoted that after 2 years of Hytale they will start taking a cut from modders/server owners

but I can only assume the cut he meant is IF the modders/server owners sell something on Hytale's platform

[fierce fulcrum]

Ok that would be normal in a lot of way (we could imagine them ''evaluating'' some mods to be sure no one is selling weird things with wrong tags)

[crude hill]

I imagine it like the Spigot plugin market

[olive rampart]

with the current setup would it be possible for someone to make a voice chat mod?

[fierce fulcrum]

Yeah what worries me more is the server related stuff

[olive rampart]

considering we cant directly modify the client, im curious how much access we have with scripting

[summer sapphire]

I think he said they have plans for it to be built in

[crude hill]

If you have an in-game shop, like server VIP ranks it only makes sense they take a cut, you're basically playing their game

[fierce fulcrum]

You could imagine having a separate software in any case but I believe they add plans to support that natively

[summer sapphire]

Yeah, he did say everything should be modifiable from the server side

[olive rampart]

like we can modify the server software?

[crude hill]

or you want in-game ads playing every 5 minutes 😂

[summer sapphire]

Eventually, yes, it’s gonna be shared source

[fierce fulcrum]

I hope it's not possible to do everything server side for security reasons

[summer sapphire]

But not on release I don’t think

[bitter nacelle]

It’s all speculation until its product in hand

[fierce fulcrum]

😭

[summer sapphire]

What do you mean?

[fierce fulcrum]

But I mean you already bought the game ? So that feels like paying again the company for something you already paid for

[fierce fulcrum]

Imagine being able to toggle the mic from the server

You would be able to record people without them knowing

[crude hill]

You bought the game and you think making money off it is fair to the creator?

[summer sapphire]

They said they’re taking 0% from content creators for 2 years at least, I believe

[bitter nacelle]

Yes they intend for that to be possible

[crude hill]

Yeah I know we are basically talking about after 2 years

[olive rampart]

id imagine its similar to the android sandbox, where the apps need to explictly ask for permission

[crude hill]

Ya'll don't understand me, I'm not against selling assets and in-game ranks, I'm only saying I agree with them taking a cut from server owners and modders because it's their game

[bitter nacelle]

Oh hi banana

[fierce fulcrum]

Yes actually, as a player thing I don't like that

Because on a sidenote if a server sells something then it's the server work before being hytale one

[summer sapphire]

When I say everything, I didn’t mean literally lol. Everything you’d want to modify you probably could according to my understanding of what they said

[olive rampart]

if they do it that way anyway. I dont think they would give the server mic access unless they unmute (hi!)

[summer sapphire]

Ahh I see

[fierce fulcrum]

Yes of course that's what I meant by i hope some things will be secured 😂

[summer sapphire]

Well I think after two years they would take from creators only if the creators are using their infrastructure. Otherwise they wouldn’t have a reason to take money

[crude hill]

The server sells something, but the server was written by Hytale Studios and the client you and your players are using was written by Hytale Studios, it is their intellectual property and their right to take a cut from your earnings.

by playing the game you basically agree to their terms of service

[summer sapphire]

Think Roblox or Fortnite creative worlds

[fierce fulcrum]

I mean i understand the ''it's hytale game and you use hytale to make money so you should pay us'' I just don't like that

[crude hill]

I think all of you are too used to Minecraft's business plan, the world doesn't work like that

[olive rampart]

and minecraft dosnt like it either, thats why minecoins exist

[summer sapphire]

“If you use their infrastructure” what I mean by this is if you use their servers to host your game they will take a cut

[fierce fulcrum]

Hmm actually not only Minecraft game works like that

Garry's mod too for example
Nearly every game that have modding and server actually

The only game which does that are game with a premium money like Roblox to my knowledge

[olive rampart]

this is kinda giving that one clause where adobe said that stuff made with photoshop is their ip

[fierce fulcrum]

Yeah of course but that's just server hosting

[crude hill]

Trust me, if garry's mod or Minecraft knew earlier that people will make millions off their game they would take a cut as well

[bitter nacelle]

They are not providing you servers

[eager glacier]

yeah we are getting the modding post

[last turtle]

most games do not have paid mods. like. a majority of games. paying for mods is a legal and moral gray area for most games and most modders are proponents of open source

[fierce fulcrum]

But I mean I wouldn't be against it if there was some control for example again if they have a mod checking a server which says 'Ok you're family friendly' then they will say your server is secure for children and if you gain money you'll have to gain them some
No problem with a system like that

[last turtle]

in the case of hytale even if paying for mods is allowed I think it's still scummy

[crude hill]

most games are illegally modded, you forgot to mention that

[fierce fulcrum]

Yes because actually if you make something on a game you're the only one who owns that things

[last turtle]

no, even games legally modded

[crude hill]

It's against most games' terms of service to mod them in any way, people just ignore that

[olive rampart]

but even then to play devils advocate, mojang dosnt provide server directly for people who make marketplace content or anything. I think its because they own the place where you share mods that it becomes a different model

[summer sapphire]

Yeah I highly doubt they’ll take a cut for you using their game to make money, simply because of the model they are following. Similar model as Fortnite and Roblox.

But since they’re allowing you to host private servers (for now) unlike those other games. I’d assume they will only take a cut when we’re on their own platform

[last turtle]

stardew
terraria
no man's sky
deep rock galactic
minecraft Java edition
celeste

[crude hill]

You aren't, haha

[fierce fulcrum]

Yes you are

[last turtle]

these are all games where modding is not illegal, and people do not pay for mods
directly supported? no. against the TOS? no.

[fierce fulcrum]

Minecraft terms of license are illegal in this aspect

[olive rampart]

it depends if hytale is selling us the game or a license to use the game

[bitter nacelle]

It will be a license

[crude hill]

You entered the discussion in the middle, I'm trying to explain to Wyrdix that taking a cut from modders selling their mods and server owners selling in-game perks is a legit move and justified because you are basically using their intellectual property to profit

[bitter nacelle]

Otherwise there’s no punitive action that’ll be effective

[last turtle]

oh I don't care if they take a cut, I care about people selling mods in the first place

[fierce fulcrum]

But the thing is that it means you have a centralised way of collecting the money for both usage

[olive rampart]

i can go to the store and buy pvc and make a boat and sell the boat

[fierce fulcrum]

Which is in itself wrong on so many levels

Past examples shows us it leads to company doing whatever they want 🫠

[fierce fulcrum]

That's not exactly the same you buy the matter and the right to use it

[crude hill]

the pvc is your property the moment you bought it, Hytale isn't your property the moment you bought it, you bought a copy of the game, you don't own the intellectual property which is Hytale

[last turtle]

they can take a cut whatever that's normal but still, I have a fundamental belief community content and media should not be restricted to only those who can afford it
$30 is already a big ask for the base game, very few people will play with mods if it means paying even more money

[bitter nacelle]

People are going to sell mods, that’s to be expected.

[last turtle]

yeah and I won't be buying them or selling my mods ☺️☺️☺️ I'd rather be shot in a ditch then do that

[crude hill]

Yep, it happened on Spigot

[fierce fulcrum]

Yeah well oc if the game works there will be professional designer

[last turtle]

yeah and I despise that it happens with spigot

[bitter nacelle]

I think it’s perfectly fair to sell your mods. If I’m gonna sit there and put 80+ hours into developing something I do want to return on investment.

[fierce fulcrum]

I mean some people do that for a living 😅

[crude hill]

I also disliked that, but our world revolves around money

[last turtle]

it's stupid that servers have to pay a lot of money just to use plugins
what if you just wanna play with your friends? what if you are broke? now you can't enjoy content because it's too expensive? like

[fierce fulcrum]

But at the same time luckily a lot of people have their work open source and contributed by giving the community some great plugins / mods / tools / tutorials etc

[last turtle]

patreon, kofi, commissions, etc. many Java modders make a living without ever selling their mods

[fierce fulcrum]

I mean if it happens it will only be for server which make money

[crude hill]

For every mod that costs money, there will be a mod that is free for people to use, I doubt Hytale's ecosystem is gonna lack mods

[bitter nacelle]

Program it yourself 🤷

[pastel wolf]

so real

[fierce fulcrum]

Not really sure about that statement

I worked for 7 years doing plugins for people and was never paid 🫠

[bitter nacelle]

If creators can’t make money on hytale they’re not gonna use it. They’ll stick to Roblox, UEFN, or MC

[crude hill]

Yeah, accept the fact that people will treat it as a job

[last turtle]

lol have you seen the state of spigot plugins
I was trying to add a player head plugin to my server for my friends and every semi decent one was $10
I'm not paying ten bucks for a plugin

[summer sapphire]

I’m a Minecraft plugin developer and I strongly agree because I grew up wanting to try all these plugins/mods and I wasn’t able to afford them.

All my creations besides personal commissions are free!

[last turtle]

yeah and I won't be buying them or selling my mods ☺️☺️☺️ I'd rather be shot in a ditch then do that
I will be, lol

[olive rampart]

not that everyone will treat it as a job, there will be enough people with enough free time to make stuff for fun

[crude hill]

You don't have to pay, plus today LLM's can probably help you make basic plugins

[last turtle]

oh bug off with llm stuff vibe coding is garbage

[fierce fulcrum]

You've got good anticheat plugins for which you need to pay because they are really great

[last turtle]

I've had to deal with enough people trying to write Java mods with chatgpt and failing miserably cuz chatgpt has no idea what it's doing

[fierce fulcrum]

😔😞

[summer sapphire]

I’ve seen this so much LOL

[true socket]

I’ve paid $10 for a lot of plugins lol

[last turtle]

vibe coding is a crutch

[crude hill]

also, Java won't be mandatory for the basic stuff, they have a scripting language if I recall correctly

[pastel wolf]

Its actually devious how bad most LLM's are with minecraft dev

[summer sapphire]

But for those who genuinely took the time to learn. LLMs are an amazing tool to help you think through things or take care of redundant tasks

[fierce fulcrum]

People wrote java plugin drunkly before llms so I can't even fathom how bad it must be with ...

[last turtle]

LLMs are great for fundamentals but break down for specific tools

[summer sapphire]

We’ve made a huge investment into AI at work and so have most other companies

[last turtle]

I still get consistently incorrect answers when I ask chatgpt for simple mono behavior scripts for unity

[true socket]

would you guys rather write compiled Java plugins or use whatever live scripting solution is in the game which would be faster to develop with ofc but probably less powerful because you won’t be able to do stuff outside of the api

[last turtle]

so I've sworn off LLMs 🤷‍♀️

[fierce fulcrum]

Research shows that for junior Devs on the long run the time gained seems to be non existent

No studies were done on seniors I believe

[fierce fulcrum]

The scripting solution is supposed to not exist at start

[crude hill]

I have 11y dev experience, been doing Minecraft & real life job, I obviously started way before LLMs fried our brains, but I admit that today I use llms for autocompletions, summarizing big codebases, web searches that will take me minutes

[last turtle]

both
scripts can be hot reloaded which is nice and java kind of? can with jetbrains jre? but it's not perfect

[fierce fulcrum]

Ans you might not be able to interact with other plugins with scripting

[summer sapphire]

I think anyone who takes time to learn how to code and be proficient (even using AI to LEARN not copy), can absolutely be successful

[true socket]

are you sure? when was this said?

[summer sapphire]

A lot of juniors don’t know what they’re writing now is the real problem

[fierce fulcrum]

I kinda agree with that

[summer sapphire]

They use AI as a crutch for their lack of knowledge

[last turtle]

it really depends how you use ai

if I ask chatgpt to write an item that spawns a creeper on right click in minecraft I will learn very little. whats registration? how do I spawn entities? how do game sides work? etc
if I ask chatgpt "how does registration work in minecraft" that will give me an answer to learn

[fierce fulcrum]

Hard to remember clearly sorry

But I heard somewhere they wanted to support a visual coding thing on the long run

[true socket]

im not talking about visual programming tough

[crude hill]

Anyhow it was a nice discussion, I love seeing passionate devs, hope to see your work in Hytale! 🫡

[fierce fulcrum]

😅 sorry we don't agree
Let's hope we all find amazing ideas !
Have a good day

[true socket]

hopefully the modding blogpost answers a lot of stuff

[fierce fulcrum]

When is it released ?

[true socket]

some point later today

[fierce fulcrum]

OH GOD

ok didn't know that

It's already 6 in the afternoon for me 😭

[last turtle]

this is factually untrue
I make Minecraft mods just because I love doing it. I love making things and contributing to software and the likes. in the Java modding scene this is almost a universal sentiment and those who make a living off it are few and far between
hytale will never have a healthy modding ecosystem if users have to pay for adding additional content to the game or relying on other servers to do it - modpacks likely won't exist either, which is the biggest selling point of Java edition modded imo

[true socket]

modding blog post today, pricing info release tomorrow, release date announcement next week

[last turtle]

yes, some people won't, the people who make bedrock marketplace slop and the likes
but like. that's nowhere near a universal sentiment

and besides people HATE the marketplace and the quality of content is abysmal

[summer sapphire]

Agreed! It’s a big issue when people are just copying. I’ve also heard the stack overflow argument… but most of time time you’d have to actually go searching for code that works AND figure out how to apply it in your context

[last turtle]

I hope so because I'd like to write client mods too and would rather not get my account banned for having fun in singleplayer

[fierce fulcrum]

I agree with you overhall but you'll have to consider that it's because of this that a lot of Minecraft server consider it normal to not pay devs...

Actually the ones I knew paid visual artists but not Devs

[true socket]

lol what are you trying to cook up here

[last turtle]

this. stack overflow has saved me a lot but because I look for small problems that are more universal and I learn why they work

[true socket]

im interested in the blogpost because I want to see what gets said about server modding

[fierce fulcrum]

Yeah me too

[last turtle]

which is bad for servers making money I agree, Im more interested in single player / small server experiences

[pseudo lantern]

im back what i miss

[fierce fulcrum]

The video was nice but it shows nothing interesting for me 😅

[true socket]

the vfx one?

[last turtle]

JEI clone / recipe viewer probably

And maybe some form of waila or minimap or something

[true socket]

why would you get your account banned?

[fierce fulcrum]

Yeah but the thing is that because the community is so accustomed to having great things for free it seems natural to not pay people to do it ...

[fierce fulcrum]

It's supposed to not be supported

[last turtle]

the stance on client mods is very up in the air, they've said it's "not allowed" rather than "not supported"

[fierce fulcrum]

I believe it's already in the game no ?

[last turtle]

well see I'm just speculating mostly

[true socket]

makes sense for anti cheating and security purposes

when did they say this btw

[fierce fulcrum]

Not much 🫠

Some discussions about the cut they would take in two years on server/mods

[last turtle]

I mean yeah for anti cheat but I'm not interested in writing cheats or really using an anti cheat on my own servers

I'm going to be playing single player / on small servers with my friends lol

[pseudo lantern]

all depends on how muhc markt they corner. if they are the only marketplace they cn hit high fees

[true socket]

anyways you could probably make a recipe viewer as a server mod with a GUI exposed to the client with whatever supported method

[fierce fulcrum]

So many new ways to make funny crap will be available to us

*Megamind meme

[fierce fulcrum]

Obviously that could be done if they really want to support server modding

[last turtle]

yeah and that's a big problem
while I love foss and stuff and want content to be free for people I heavily support commissioning and paying people to make something either for private use or to be released for free

[last turtle]

we don't know the state of modding tools so we'll have to see

[pseudo lantern]

ill always keep my mods/plugins free

[fierce fulcrum]

I don't know how we can prevent that way of thinking...

[last turtle]

by not accepting unpaid labor

[pseudo lantern]

we know a little tho. regarding the tools they provide. theres a demo online of how it works

[true socket]

it isn’t a big deal whether there is a marketplace or not, there will always be people making both free and paid modifications regardless of what is officially supported

[fierce fulcrum]

When you work for people who gain money, pay themselves and pay other but not you ... That's a bit hard of a situation

[pseudo lantern]

thats different

[fierce fulcrum]

You're paid in experience 🫠

[true socket]

paid minecraft plugins and stuff is rarely any better than the open sourced stuff anyways

[pseudo lantern]

if i make a plugin and release it. its free

when a servers asks for sometihng its paid

[pseudo lantern]

all depends on the plugin. if it needs to be a cutom redesign for the server

[fierce fulcrum]

It's not quality question but having a custom plugins is a good things for most server

[last turtle]

yeah don't accept positions like this. unpaid internships are stealing. doing free commissions for those who can afford to pay you is stealing. they're exploiting your labor

[pseudo lantern]

exactly

[hybrid star]

will the plugin coding be similar to Minecraft or will there be significant changes?

[fierce fulcrum]

At the time and even today I don't know people which does a great project and are not paid or are doing a project and would pay people

[pseudo lantern]

my stance is clear:
All plugins i make are free and i release them out. however if a server contacts me directly for a plugin to be made its always paid

[fierce fulcrum]

Significant change it's not the same game

[true socket]

it isn’t stealing if you gave it to them

[pseudo lantern]

it will be a lot different. hytale wants to corner the market by getting as many devs on their tools

[last turtle]

I wanted to say a different word that started with an s and is illegal but it was censored
it's taking advantage of your labor specifically

[hybrid star]

ik its not same game but will the engines be similar i meant

[last turtle]

no

[fierce fulcrum]

That's a bit harsh of a position

When you work for people with them saying they will pay you but never do that's quite a steak

[hybrid star]

okay sure i get it, ty for answer

[true socket]

yeah but like if you’re going to offer someone free stuff you can’t blame them for taking it

[pseudo lantern]

thats theft

[last turtle]

I hope hytale isn't similar engine wise minecraft SUCKS

[pseudo lantern]

im use to it now lol

[last turtle]

not necessarily, people can be manipulated with the promise of exposure or experience etc

[fierce fulcrum]

😭

[true socket]

this isn’t the same situation I’m talking about if you agreed to give it for free

[last turtle]

please hytale have a semi decent ecs I beg of you don't do everything with inheritance 🙏🙏🙏

[fierce fulcrum]

ECS ? Not sure to know this term in englisj

[last turtle]

I know the c++ engine had one but

[pseudo lantern]

does everyone know what they want to be working on when we get api

[hybrid star]

depends, i used to code plugins to mc but it was like 5 years ago, wasnt that bad. ofc it can be a sentimental issue

[last turtle]

entity component system, it's a design pattern common in game engines

[true socket]

is old engine even ecs

[last turtle]

I've written forge mods so I regularly work directly with the games code, it's not good

no experience with spigot so idk the experience there

[raw kayak]

what engine did they even use?

[near raptor]

Spigot is the same: lots and lots of inheritance

[limber lake]

What is hytale made in?

[last turtle]

the amount of atrocious mixins I've written...

[near raptor]

Or well, NMS is

[fierce fulcrum]

Hmm I guess so ? I believe I would love to do a computer craft style thing 😅

[last turtle]

custom engine

[fierce fulcrum]

Client c#
Server java

[pseudo lantern]

bruh why so many ppl asking basic questions.... lol

[raw kayak]

PGE?

[pseudo lantern]

watcha mean?

[limber lake]

Eww java on the server. Time to leave this chat...

[true socket]

we love our massive Minecraft entity inheritance chains

[pseudo lantern]

?

[last turtle]

ooo that would be awesome
have you taken a look at open computers 2? it implements an entire risc v Linux kernel in the computers

[fierce fulcrum]

I've modified the Minecraft server multiple time and I don't want to do that again 🫠

[fierce fulcrum]

At first lua style thing and after that maybe more complicated things

[last turtle]

Lua scripting as a first step would be cool yeah and a lot more manageable

[pseudo lantern]

nice good luck to you

@last turtle wbu wats your plans

[last turtle]

there's def implementations in Java so it shouldn't be too crazy hard

[raw kayak]

please kotlin base 🙏

[fierce fulcrum]

But being able to create electronics in a UI could be nice too

[last turtle]

writing an energy api and then making a basic tech mod

[raw kayak]

[fierce fulcrum]

I was thinking about rebuilding it from scratch 😭
But yeah I guess it already exists

[fierce fulcrum]

Computer use energy ❤️

[last turtle]

I mean would be a fun project but the Lua interpreter is pretty complex

I've never looked at it or its bytecode language but yeah

[fierce fulcrum]

I like to create programming languages 🫠

[fierce fulcrum]

You could just interpret it

[last turtle]

I've written an ML interpreter (programming language, not machine learning) in Kotlin which was fun

[raw kayak]

yeah aagree that, kotlin fun

[last turtle]

same haha though a tree walk interpreter would probably be too slow

[raw kayak]

i cant turn back into java forge thingie

[fierce fulcrum]

Never tried kotlin ? I know it's great but never learned it

[last turtle]

idk depends on how you implement the AST

[fierce fulcrum]

First make it work
Then make it nice

[near raptor]

I embraced Kotlin several years ago and never went back to Java

[fierce fulcrum]

We really need to tatoo that somewhere

[pseudo lantern]

pin it lol

[near raptor]

But it is not likely that the server of Hytale is written in Kotlin if it dates back to 2018 ish

[raw kayak]

kotlin whole better than java itself, so idk

[last turtle]

yeah def
my main problem with my ML interpreter is the amount of recursion means that complex programs can overflow the jvm stack

[fierce fulcrum]

I mean you could have a not so bad ir that could be interpreted quite fastly

[raw kayak]

also the compile r pretty slow & smol community

[fierce fulcrum]

Common problem with this style of project !

[supple trail]

It isn't. LuaJIT is hellish. But the original Lua interpreter from PUC Rio is pretty short. About 50 KLOC, if I recall correctly. The language is incredibly simple; there are programmers that can develop a usable interpreter for Lua alone in a month, even if it may be not completely correct and most likely relatively slow.

[last turtle]

yup haha, learned that the hard way

[last turtle]

I stand corrected, good to know

I've never used Lua so I wouldn't know

[fierce fulcrum]

Well you know creating a turning complete language compiler can be done in a week end 🫠

[fierce fulcrum]

Last year I had a school project where we had to implems optimization on the ir

That was a nightmare

[last turtle]

depends on how much language features you want
type checking will double the time it takes and if you're writing your own parser good luck doing that in a week

[fierce fulcrum]

😭

[last turtle]

parser combinators my beloved 🙏🙏🙏

[fierce fulcrum]

Yes but types are good 👉👈

[last turtle]

for mine I straight up implemented monads in Kotlin

[supple trail]

Lua has no type checking. A feature-complete Lua interpreter need not implement it.

[last turtle]

my Parser type had a bind operation and pure operation and a bunch of different other operations too it was honestly awesome

[supple trail]

I believe to know my next side project. A Lua interpreter.

[last turtle]

yeah that's true I was referring to in general
I like type checking anyways lol

[fierce fulcrum]

In my current internship I created a parser by hand for a really strange usage and data type (it does not really parse simple text)

[last turtle]

I wanna write a toy imperative language with full HM type inference that'd be a fun project

[fierce fulcrum]

You're a good person !

[last turtle]

I currently mostly have experience w writing functional languages but ig the difference isn't thaaat big

[empty gale]

Dude i havent touched java in a bit this is gonna be the reason i start coding in java again

[fierce fulcrum]

Actually it is because the memory is not really managed the same way I believe ?

[last turtle]

in my rust class we've been implementing the type semantics for borrow checking and references so maybe I can do something similar to that too hehe

[fierce fulcrum]

I actually never wrote a functional style programming language compiler

[last turtle]

the main difference is closures really, and doing those cleanly

[supple trail]

At work, I have to know bits and pieces of four languages:

• Python
• Tcl/Tk
• Fortran 77
• Perl

The software is 35 years old, and I'm the one responsible for rewriting its UIs in Python with PyQt5.

[last turtle]

like making closures without literally cloning the entire environment

[fierce fulcrum]

Well in my case it's to parse human made math proof and convert it into rocq proof 🫠

[last turtle]

I'd suggest reading the ZINC paper it goes a lot into that
the abstract machine they derive is super simple and supports function currying and it's pretty cool

[fierce fulcrum]

Zinc ?

[last turtle]

precursor to Caml/OCaml, early functional language compiler

[fierce fulcrum]

I had a paper written in 90s about how to write a ml compiled in lambda calculus

It was insane

[last turtle]

oh yeah that's pretty common

a lot of functional languages will use a pseudo lamba calculus as an intermediary representation

[fierce fulcrum]

The typing thing 🤌

[last turtle]

basically the same but with let bindings and types

[fierce fulcrum]

Not that surprising

[last turtle]

you guys are gonna get me back into PL stuff again 😭😭😭

[fierce fulcrum]

Well creating a computercraft with ml would be fun as an educational tool (my field of study in research actually) but not so fun to use

[fierce fulcrum]

Lmao

[last turtle]

no I think it'd be fun I love ML

it's so fun to write code in, albeit harder

for any good usability you prob need some form of ref type but yeah

[fierce fulcrum]

If you want one day you could help me do that as a side type of turtle 🐢🫠

[fierce fulcrum]

Yeah probably

[last turtle]

hehe ofc
I wrote my ML interpreter for a magic mod I was working on

[fierce fulcrum]

Which kinda of break the whole thing

Interacting with a non pure world is a bit weird

[last turtle]

essentially making spells with code

[fierce fulcrum]

F*CK that was one of my ideas
Is it oc ?

[last turtle]

oc?

[fierce fulcrum]

Woupsi
Open source sorry

[last turtle]

I haven't made too much progress because I need to write an IR cuz the state it's in its not practical to use due to jvm stack overflow on large projects

[static portal]

similar to hexcasting?

[last turtle]

yeah! like hex casting but a functional language rather than a stack one

[static portal]

so more like computerCraft but magic?

[last turtle]

you can peek around the code of my interpreter if you'd like! I can send the repository
it's unfinished and not perfect and only the tree walk interpreter is implemented but yeah

I was trying to type check SML style modules and functors which is such a pain

[fierce fulcrum]

Isn't it the mod were you need to draw instructions and it stacks operations and variables

[last turtle]

mostly functors. functors suck to type check

[fierce fulcrum]

I was interested with the gameplay aspect of doing a functional style magic mod tbh

[last turtle]

the idea was like you'd create small functions as building blocks and compose those functions to make more powerful spells

and you'd have a physical library in game of all the spells you wrote as like modules and stuff

so you could visually see your repertoire of tools and such grow

one of the biggest downsides to hex casting is reusing code is not easy so that was my idea of a solution

[fierce fulcrum]

Oh okay you didn't go the same direction as I envisioned

I wanted to see if it might be possible to compile spells in ml style code to magical circle + effect in the real world

[static portal]

yes, its fun

[last turtle]

oh that would be cool too
one of my friends really likes magic systems in media and was talking about ideas of visualizing the lambda calculus sort of in spell circles and such

[fierce fulcrum]

Oh great !

[last turtle]

i havent followed up with them on that but it is an idea 😅

[fierce fulcrum]

I wanted to see if it could be use as an educational medium (again it's my field of study)

[last turtle]

oooo yeah! i think thats a great idea

tricking people into learning programming /j

[fierce fulcrum]

And ml programming

😁

[static portal]

you probably want to use somthing more like TIS-3D (or even the "game" its based on TIS-100)

[fierce fulcrum]

Oh don't know those projects I'll check it out

Thanks !

[shrewd cipher]

what's ml?
(I just randomly appeared in the chat and found your conversion interesting)

[last turtle]

this is so cool omg

[last turtle]

Meta Language
functional language made in the 80s ish

[fierce fulcrum]

It's a style of programming language derived from a language named ml

The main ideas is that you've got a great typing systems overhall
And you create tiny amount of very general functions that you reuse

[last turtle]

its very mathematically proven as well so the type system is super safe while not really requiring type annotations

[fierce fulcrum]

It's a bit hard to explain but it's a different way to view computation

[fierce fulcrum]

Yes !

There is a saying that if a program types then it works

[last turtle]

its really cool yeah
in my ML dialect i also made row polymorphic records which was a fun project to figure out

i dislike OCaml's record implementation (theyre really just an equvialent of c structs even if they dont seem like it) and they mean functions on records arent really polymorphic at all :<

but in my language you can do something like this

let f x =
    match x with
    | {age=y; ..} ->
        {x with size=(y*10)}
    | _ -> {x with size=0}
    end

let _ =
    f {name="Hi"; age=12; color="meow"}

the type of f is {..} -> {size: int; ..} (takes in any record and returns the same record with an added size field)

[static portal]

i always hate ml syntax, i just find it unreadable for some reason

[delicate quest]

yeah, so hytale

[last turtle]

fair enough, i think it can look really clean if done well and really messy if done poorly

[fierce fulcrum]

🫠 it all started from an idea of a mod

[fierce fulcrum]

You just have poor taste in what readable means 😔

[last turtle]

i think readable is subjective

stuff becomes more readable if you get familiar with the language's design choices

like when i first learned ML i thought the let .. in .. syntax was horrible
now? i love it

[fierce fulcrum]

(That was trolling)

[last turtle]

ugh i swore i'd never write another interpreter on the jvm look what you guys have done to me...

[static portal]

tbf like any language
im just not used to use multiple line like that, i would probably want do to somthing like

let f x = match x with | {age=y; ..} ->
        {x with size=(y*10)}
    | _ -> 
      {x with size=0} end

let _ = {name="Hi"; age=12; color="meow"}

i find this more readable, or even having it in 1 line per let would be more readable for me
i can actually see this when i write in java, sometimes it ends in very long line that take 2-3 the size of my screen (like for example i often do stream or builder in one line)

[last turtle]

yeah i hate that because the match is now no longer aligned lol

[fierce fulcrum]

At some point maybe we should continue in private or in a thread ?😅

[last turtle]

match x with
| One -> (..)
| Two -> (..)
| Three -> (..)
end

this just looks cleaner imo

[static portal]

tbf its kinda special of how i like to read code, having something very verbose that goes out of the screen doesnt bother me

[last turtle]

(and btw the end keyword is a thing i added because ML not having delimiters for match statements was a bad idea imo)

[last turtle]

eh, still related to hytale, i think its fine haha
maybe if a mod yells at us

[last turtle]

for me it depends
so for example

let x = if y = 2 then y * 3 else 5

let x = 
  if y = 2 then
    y * 3
  else
    5

i think the first one looks cleaner than the second

because the first is essentially just a ternary operator but better

but with pattern matching i prefer multi lines almost always

[fierce fulcrum]

But in the end it's just about configuration of your ide ?

[static portal]

basically instead of aligning the condition i aligned what it does instead

match x with | One ->
        (..) 
     | Two ->
        (..)
     | Three ->
        (..)
end

it takes more line but you see more what it does and less the condition
its probably because im used to more functional language (C my beloved)

[last turtle]

thats fair, i just prefer lining up the | bars

[static portal]

yes

[static portal]

based on the experience of other reacting to how i code generally if its small they don't mind if its a single line

[spice sluice]

hope API will have nullable annotations for kotlin

[fierce fulcrum]

We could add those if they're missing 😅

[halcyon mica]

Perhaps we'll live to see Cloudburst working for Hytale too 😉

[gusty aspen]

Kotlin API is being built by Sera in the Hytale Modding discord :D

I don't believe so there will be built in support for kotlin

[halcyon mica]

Can't wait to create C# bindings

[gusty aspen]

guess it will 🤷‍♂️

[fierce fulcrum]

What's cloudburst ?

[elder socket]

where can i find a hytale modding discord?

[halcyon mica]

Bedrock edition server software

[fierce fulcrum]

👍

[elder socket]

thx

[misty gyro]

its not like koin is athing 😄

[surreal hemlock]

I prefer different types of di

[gusty aspen]

i know nothing about whats going on 😭

[surreal hemlock]

Personal thing not like irs required to make kytale work

koin just isn’t it for me neither is kotlin inject

[hidden yarrow]

Speedrun for Rust bindings 👀

[little veldt]

What mods have you guys planned?

I want to recreate the towny plugin from minecraft

[serene bay]

For me, hopefully something similar to Votifier.

[gusty aspen]

ooh yeah

i love towny

[little veldt]

It seems like a ton of work though. I only have some experience with C# and none with minecraft modding

[bitter nacelle]

C# is client, not server

[little veldt]

Yeah I know, just saying it's basically the only language I know

[bitter nacelle]

I’d recommend looking into ways towny can be improved and integrate better with what Hytale has to offer

[little veldt]

Sure I'd not just clone it but just use it as a baseline

Also do we know if hytale uses cubic chunks on the old engine? I think it's definetly a thing in the new one

I think Slikey mentioned that the height limit is around 280 blocks atm, based on that they might use the same chunk system as minecraft?

[bitter nacelle]

Chunks are standard for most proc gen titles. How they display or can be used is unknown at this time

[karmic night]

What disgusting language is that up there?

match x with | One -> 🤢

[clear lodge]

Cubic chunks in both pretty sure

[twilit phoenix]

I feel like C# developers don't like Java

[lucid sluice]

nonsense, C# is just microsoft java

[fierce fulcrum]

😡 a beautiful language on the contrary

(On a sidenote if you don't what it's about this syntax might seems weird, it's a syntax used to deconstruct an object)

[lucid sluice]

it's impossible for a c# programmer to not like java

[twilit phoenix]

I don't think it's simply that either.