server-plugins-read-only

[hard walrus]

the problem you're missing is if the gameplay sucks, people wont play for more than a week or two. if people stop playing whats the point of modding? at that point everyone will "wait" till it's good, but during that time money wont be generated because of the low playercount. It's not good for a game to hemorrhage money. It needs to be some kind of success on launch

[cloud sun]

thats why they are going to pump out updates

updates will keep the players satisfied and will gradually improve the game

[knotty salmon]

are you.... man i wish i could live your world where you didnt feel the pressure to recoup costs for a 25M purchase (supposedly?) by selling early access and attempting to grow that base out further by providing a platform where you get advertisement via creators and word of mouth from people who enjoy it, thus gaining more sales to not only help with that initial purchase cost but also the cost of devs. even if they have enough to subsidize development, server cost, legal fees, and more for a decade, that still means before the decade is up they need a revenue stream to make it worth it

[hard walrus]

many games have gone through this and not made it through

the point is the game isnt coming to ea for a month minimum, it's just not smart to release it without any kind of substance or draw

[cloud sun]

fair point, but I'm also not saying they don't care if like a really low amount of people play

they obviously want that number to be in the greens

[knotty salmon]

if that was the cast to any degree, they wouldnt have "Hytale is Saved" plastered everywhere

[topaz walrus]

IMO gameplay looks pretty awesome and I'm good ad judging gameplay feel from videos

[hard walrus]

momentum is key

[knotty salmon]

yeah, whats been seen visually so far looks amazing, but the SUBSTANCE is going to matter a ton

[topaz walrus]

I think it would be good idea to let modders in before launch somehow

[hard walrus]

problem is the "gameplay" is mostly just demonstration, there's not much behind it

[hard walrus]

perhaps an early access?

[topaz walrus]

True but minecraft is like most sold game ever made and its gameplay is as basic as it gets

[knotty salmon]

0% chance they do that, shows treatment. tho tbf, bigger modding teams have already been contacted directly ive heard

[hard walrus]

well the difference is minecraft is and has been feature complete at it's core. hytale still has core features missing that just completely roadblock gameplay

[cloud sun]

they want to have players, that's not a secret, I'm just saying they aren't focused on substantially growing profit just yet, they are first focusing on actually making the game good, using the income they get from early access.

that's simons plan which he stated on twitter

[static portal]

meh
its easy to understand but its actually pretty complex

[topaz walrus]

I've started playing minecraft at alpha 1.5 and that was a lot more raw than what they have shown so far

[knotty salmon]

standards were lower and mc had no competition or comparison tbf :kek

[hard walrus]

simon said they are implementing the ui library right now, its not even about being raw, it's just not done

[topaz walrus]

What is meant by "UI library"?

[lavish niche]

but standards are a lot higher nowadays too

[clear wedge]

I believe that's what we were discussing yesterday, did you see the inventory? With the UI, each server can edit the design however they want

[hard walrus]

it's noesis

it's how the server will sent ui to the client

docs for it are available

[warm hare]

i can't wait to write a bi-directional Minecraft ↔ Hytale server compatibility layer

[terse shuttle]

@halcyon mica

[terse shuttle]

.

[halcyon mica]

stop

[terse shuttle]

😂

[warm hare]

😓

[halcyon mica]

this would actually make for a great Minecraft plugin

imagine Hypixel & Hytale cross-play

[gleaming pecan]

Seems like a monumental task

[manic pine]

good luck on figuring out pvp lol

[vast bison]

awful idea... just get hytale if u wanna play it - this will only lead to bad performance and a waste of time 😭

[zinc hare]

My brain urks for the dev who will implement this

[zinc hare]

There is a Minecraft plugin that allows you to cross play between Roblox and Minecraft, it works great but the dev almost kicked the bucket while making it

[gleaming pecan]

Oh yeah i forgot about that

[vast bison]

it's pointless though - you could technically make it for any game that has a server but why would you?

[halcyon mica]

kicked what

[zinc hare]

It was a very pointless mod

[zinc hare]

The bucket 🪣

[halcyon mica]

what's with the bucket

[gleaming pecan]

It might be easier than roblox but still seems like a strage move tbh

[gleaming pecan]

It means he almost died

[zinc hare]

🦵the 🪣 is a term for un aliving yourself or almost dead

[gleaming pecan]

You can say died this isnt a youtube video

But the other one sui yeah i get

Must have been crazy hard

[zinc hare]

Ik, I’m on so many platforms rn that I sometimes forget what’s what

[willow grove]

Only day 1 we can start developing servers and mods?

[warm hare]

by Atmerek?

[zinc hare]

I think so I don’t remember the devs name

[warm hare]

oh it's for sure easier than roblox

[zinc hare]

Not sure yet we gotta wait a few days for dev notes

[gleaming pecan]

I also feel like it would be a huge pain to update all the time, geyser has a dedicated dev team but they have a lot of projects they are working on

[halcyon mica]

oof

[warm hare]

fair point, updates could be a nightmare. honestly it'd still be a fun challenge if it ever became realistic

[gleaming pecan]

Yeah, once you get past the hurdle of making it the next part is finding trustworthy and dedicated people to maintain it

[bright scarab]

Are we have server file like paper or spigot?

[west elk]

we will have a server file like server.jar

but not a server framework

[bright scarab]

also bungeecord or velocity for make proxy server?

[west elk]

no information yet. But given this is the Hypixel team, i bet they thought about how to best support this

[bright scarab]

thanks man

[gleaming pecan]

Well hoping to god or whatever higher deity that it has good performance

[bright scarab]

that will be have good performance i'm sure, they managing minecraft sever like 13 years 😄

[dawn spire]

they announced that they will release the full source for the server

[bright scarab]

yeah yeah, also they was saying client side anti cheat but didnt see anything about it in updated website

[dawn spire]

they announced it on the updated website tho, literally in the latest blogpost

[bright scarab]

oh missed that part sorry

[gleaming pecan]

I mean yeah they are fully aware of minecrafts dogcrap server performance so anything better is a godsend

[hard walrus]

yes information, the team has used bungeecord on hytale already

[west elk]

you mean "something similar to bungeecord", right?

Do you have a screenshot of where they talk about it?

[hard walrus]

my fault they have an internal one

[west elk]

perfect. I like transfer packets much better than a proxy

[gleaming pecan]

Interesting on the payload part, does he mean you can send ingame stuff/information along with the player?

Ex. A sword or inventory?

[whole harness]

wtf

[west elk]

I'd wager there is a big size restriction on that data

but enough so you can put your custom data into a database and send the record id along with the player

[static portal]

aren't they saying that for MC?

[hard walrus]

if'll be enough fs

[gleaming pecan]

Hoping to god there is or you have your next ddos/bot attack method

[hard walrus]

nope

[static portal]

so like the new mc version with custom data? nice

[gleaming pecan]

Im pretty sure hes just using bungeecord as an umbrella term

[lunar swan]

Does anyone here know if anyone on the Hytale team ever said anything about toolbar customization ?
Like, could there be more than just the health and the stamina bars ?
Could we add or remove certain mechanics we see here on the right ?
May we change the number of items in the toolbar ?

[vast bison]

i think based on their empthasis on customisation this will be very doable

[gleaming pecan]

Advertisement in username?

[hard walrus]

should be controllable using noesis, it's customization is basically all encompassing

[lunar swan]

Yeah that I'm aware of, I just wanted to know if anyone had heard or remembered anything in particular.

[lunar swan]

What's Noesis ?

[hard walrus]

the ui library hytale is using

[granite raptor]

we now UI will be easy to mod and I suppose this is made with the same UI tool as the rest so should be easy

[rich solar]

noesisengine

[lunar swan]

Alright ! Great. But this is more than just UI, it also adds logic to it, so it's kind of harder to do than just a change of texture let's say.

[hard walrus]

you can install the studio app and get a head start on ui for hytale

[bright scarab]

noesisengine was new engine part, are they using noesisengine in legacy engine too?

[lunar swan]

Do you have a link ?

[rich solar]

We cant post links but google noesisengine studio

[hard walrus]

can post it but I can dm you it, its also on noesisengines website

[gleaming pecan]

Yeah google it, people need to learn by seeking it out themselves

[hard walrus]

they also arent just some random library, they are partnered up in some way

[rich solar]

directly on website too...

So its in this engine but its being I think reworked to be fully integrated by what Ive seen and can infer

[lunar swan]

Damn, it's only available on Windows right now :c

[hard walrus]

just like hytale 😔

[lunar swan]

Well, Linux support should come around pretty quickly I think.

[bright scarab]

all tweets

[rich solar]

The newer windows wrapper for linux works with Noesis GUI I was testing it. I cant post links but its the modern wintricks

winapps/winboat also worked

[lunar swan]

Alright, I'm gonna give it a try ! Thanks. Right now, the app's in Beta, but it'll probably become paid once it's out of beta right ?

[rich solar]

the studio probably will stay free. Devs pay for the cost of using it in their game

[hard walrus]

some new tweets

[lunar swan]

Alright, so you mean Hytale itself pays a licence, but devs like us won't ?

[hard walrus]

so oceans are cooked

[rich solar]

is their cost plan. @lunar swan

[hard walrus]

yes

[zinc hare]

You can use wine on Linux to use windows applications on Linux

[lunar swan]

Yeah I've seen that already. But this is probably Hytale taking care of the costs.

[zinc hare]

Hytail will most likely take care of the cost

[rich solar]

Even if the studio became paid. Hytale would just adapt an internal editor via the source code that they can pay for.

[lunar swan]

Yep, but not everything will work, especially Beta software. But, I'll give it a try.

[zinc hare]

True

[round sun]

I'm a Java programmer with four years of experience. I'm looking to assemble a team to create a minigame server. Contact me if anyone wants to participate. We only need Russian speakers to join the team.

[rich solar]

Winboat should work. Its worked zero problems for me since its a virtual windows

[hard walrus]

yep all we use the studio for is to design and export xaml files, then you put those on the server which sends them to client and voila you have ui

hytale fronts the cost for implementing and distributing noesis

[lunar swan]

Do you also have the questions along with those answers ?

[zinc hare]

You can use wine boat which host a vm tab just for application so it would run normal like if was just on windows

[scenic relic]

4 zones is still a lot yay !!! Also good to know this stuff

[delicate quest]

will we have the minecraft-like eula problems with hytale?

[rich solar]

Not for a few years

and most likely not at all

[brittle estuary]

Highly doubt it. Having built the largest minecraft server, I'm pretty sure Simon is interested in making things as smooth as possible for people to create community content

[abstract sphinx]

wym minecraft eula problem?

[rich solar]

Lets be honest Hypixel started this project due to EULA bs technically lmao

[hard walrus]

this is the best answer we've got

[woeful depot]

simon is doing everything opposite minecraft did before

[hard walrus]

I'd assume nsfw will be prohibited but that's probably it

[delicate quest]

As far as I know, the Minecraft EULA restrictions were the result of lawsuits by parents of children who played the game. So in a similar situation i can imagine a punishing eula

[rich solar]

The part of the EULA that this affected is fine. Its the rest of the EULA that is the issue.

[lunar swan]

Well the real EULA issue is that Mojang never gave us the real underlying rules behind it ;D

[west elk]

That's solved by making the eula more strict for parents overseeing their children instead of server owners

[rich solar]

The primary issue with the current EULA and foremost Microsoft's issue. Is ownership and control. That is where a lot of people have issues with. No open knowledge. We just get told when we are wrong but not what is wrong.

[lunar swan]

And that they changed it whenever, and wherever they pleased, without notifying anyone.

[agile escarp]

you mean nudity right? because nsfw is a wide net to cast nowadays

[rich solar]

Although NSFW is probably frowned upon. We wont know the details of age restrictions or server restrictions until later. No point of attempting to answer this until Hytale answers it.

[lunar swan]

Isn't Hytale aiming for T rating ? (Teen)

[hard walrus]

yeah I'm sure they'll cast a wide net just so they have the power to take down unwanted edge cases

[rich solar]

The game yes. But that isnt the community servers

[scenic relic]

Im guessing game will have similar rating as mc like maybe 10+ like mc does? idk

[rich solar]

Its going to straight up come down to the following:

Game rating will fall between E-T.
Server/Multiplayer will most likely be unrated with a warning about this for saftey.
Then once the server scape is built and the community has been adjusted to the eco system. We will see restrictions put on multiplayer.

[hard walrus]

surely it will be 13+ like discord is

[rich solar]

The pre-made eula/restrictions will be generic is my guess at EA release

[hard walrus]

everything related to the EA points to this discord server. which is 13+. wouldn't make sense to go lower for the actual game

[rich solar]

Discord TOS is 13+/ Hytale in 2018 stated they were aiming for T rating. So its probably safe to assume this is going to be the same. But we will find out soon.

This discord server is 13+ because DISCORD is 13+ so its not safe to assume this answer. But infer answers based on 2018 answers is probably in the same boat.

[hard walrus]

I just mean it wouldnt make much sense for the medium used for the EA to have a higher age requirement than the game

[rich solar]

Discords for rated M games are 13+ still :P. But I dont disagree with the age requirement. Im pretty sure you are on the mark.

[pine hornet]

We will be able to keep server plugins private, right? So they only run on my server

[rich solar]

Yeah probably. But rippers will rip where they can

[hard walrus]

they cant take your server's source code

just assets that get sent over

[pine hornet]

I hope hytale supports custom world generation or at least flat lands or that I can generate a map and have a server with multiple worlds

Bungeecord support

[rich solar]

If its anything like roblox. Server side will be safe. But any instance stuff to the client is "free" for the taking. So depending on how this works we will see 🙂

[pine hornet]

I need multiple worlds for the server I am planning

[hard walrus]

yep, and will be covered in the blog post in a few days

[pine hornet]

That is great. Thank you for letting me know

[storm glacier]

Are there any groups/people already seriously planning on making a server? I cant model even if my life depends on it but im thinking about starting/funding a server when the server code gets open sourced

[hard walrus]

answer to this

[pine hornet]

PER-FECT

[undone creek]

im sure there are people, but i wouldnt start or fund anything until you find a group of people who will actually fully commit and you all know what to do

[pine hornet]

Better than I imagined. I am hyped

[storm glacier]

Fair, thats why im asking if there are people so i can try and gather a group of people beforehand and not after the fact

[round sun]

Java dev, 4+ years exp.
Building a Roblox shooter.

Need:
2 modelers (guns, chars, maps)
1 more Java dev (server/backend)

I handle server setup.
DM if interested.

[hard walrus]

kinda crossing the self promo line, probably tone it down a lil

[pine hornet]

I hope I can adapt to this stuff. I am a Unreal dev for 9 years. Only know c++ 🙁

[storm glacier]

Damn only c++ and no other languages?

You started with the hardest option

[hard walrus]

it's a good time to install intellij idea and messing with java some

[zinc hare]

People for what?

[lunar swan]

What about GPU virtualization though ?

[storm glacier]

Not a speficic purpose but i just want to gather a group of people that would be interested in starting/running a server when server code is open source

[undone creek]

i mean if you know c++ you be fine learning java lol

[pine hornet]

I did some java. But that was like 5 years ago and I didnt like it

[zinc hare]

Oh ok im down, im already looking into some ideas that can be easily integrated in HYT

[pine hornet]

Aight, will do

[zinc hare]

As soon as I saw the last blog post i started drafting some things

[undone creek]

well, i mean java is what is gonna be used so dont know what to tell you if you want to get ijnto hytale modding

[pine hornet]

What kind of server

[zinc hare]

Just waiting for server release so I can test out some models that I made

[storm glacier]

Dont have a certain plan yet but gathering people that want to start a server early on would be nice

so i/we're not trying to gather people when we could already be working on it

[zinc hare]

Right

[rich solar]

I was able to use Adobe premier with it with low issues. So its better to try out winboat and see if it suffices. Wont be able to run games. But editors should be good

[round sun]

go

[hard walrus]

thats true, I already bought a domain for my hytale project

[zinc hare]

Same

[round sun]

Me too

[storm glacier]

Couldnt pick a name yet lmao

[zinc hare]

Working on the site rn actually

[hard walrus]

longer you wait the more will be gone

[lunar swan]

If time is in my favor, I'll also try to do some Hytale modding to create a server I already started working on in Minecraft.

[lunar swan]

Whoa, that was fast 😄

[lunar swan]

Alright, I trust you then

[zinc hare]

First thing I think community wise we can agree is probably discord plugin integration for Hytail , am I wrong?

[round sun]

Yes ser

[storm glacier]

Fair but i'd rather gather funds before i pick a name

[rich solar]

I mean dont trust a stranger online. Buts its open source and free so test it out!

[jovial turtle]

lol same

[lunar swan]

No I meant I trust you that the performance will be fine. I trust you enough to take the time to actually install Winbloat and everything it depends on.

[rich solar]

but as a keynote to what you asked:

[storm glacier]

I'd rather make a bigger server with multiple games with a group so picking a name is not my nr1 priority

[zinc hare]

You can always use ai for a name if you can’t think of one

[lunar swan]

Yeah, I saw that, but if you say performance is fine, then I'll try it out.

[pine hornet]

Do we even know yet if we can connect domains?

[lunar swan]

It never worked for me...

[zinc hare]

Separate plug-in, someone will have to create it

[rich solar]

I mean srv records worse case

[zinc hare]

Currently a big fan of grok, try that one rather than gpt

[vast bison]

being a fan of grok is crazy

[zinc hare]

😂😂

[vast bison]

0 morals gangalang

[round sun]

deepseek

[zinc hare]

Hate the maker but decent software tho

[hard walrus]

also just because something is open source doesnt mean it's safe. dont forget that

[vast bison]

hate the maker yet u support the maker??? use claude or something - its the industry standard anyway

[zinc hare]

That too

[rich solar]

This one is verfied but its true! I was saying its open source so feel free to look at it if you are worried

[lunar swan]

I use Claude and it works fine-ish for the simple taks I give it. But name-finding isn't one of them, for all LLMs actually. At least, when you're as perfectionist as I am.

[zinc hare]

I was actually thinking of that tbh, I’m looking to local host my own since a have a few ai accelerator chips so I’m running down the list of what I should host

[rich solar]

I would look at a main domain. And subdomain for the servers under it.

I have my native top level domain. <mydomain>
my back end domain <mybackenddomain>
and servers under those go as follow;
Nodes for backend <node mybackenddomain>
Servers: server1 mydomain

cant add . due to contect block in discord...

[storm glacier]

Oh yeah fair, but i was talking about a more business/game design topic

[rich solar]

Ahh fair enough

[zinc hare]

Ig

[amber cape]

Hey @round sun dm me if it’s possible.

[ancient scaffold]

Are there docs or a link to an SDK or plugin code anywhere yet?

[zinc hare]

Can’t wait to see the first few iterations of servers, buggy, full of exploits, a devs dream and nightmare

[rich solar]

No

[lunar swan]

Is anyone interested in not making a mini-games server ?

[storm glacier]

Haha i mean i do keep doing startup work for a reason

[rich solar]

I am one of those that are not interested in making mini-games lol

[pine hornet]

We get to monitize the servers though, right?

[storm glacier]

I mean what defines a mini game server to you

We do, no cut taken for 2yrs

[zinc hare]

It’s like drugs man I love problem solving so this first release is gonna be fun for me

[rich solar]

My goal is private server systems and then technology mods.

[lunar swan]

Well we should maybe, if our visions align, join forces and create something singular.

[pine hornet]

So how does that work. Like in minecraft with own webstores to buy ranks and stuff?

[amber cape]

@zinc hare DMs if possible, thanks!

[vast bison]

create mod port to hytale would lowkey be incredible

[lunar swan]

Something like the old Hypixel, with Skyblock, and then Skywars, and then Bedwars etc etc etc.

[rich solar]

I expect a lot of ports. I even plan to port my on refinestorage type mod. 🙂

[pine hornet]

Isnt this what Hytale will have as a base already

[storm glacier]

I mean a consolidated server would seem superior to me but not minigames on purpose

[rich solar]

Not for early EA but yes.

[lunar swan]

During EA, Hytale won't have any mini-games.

[pine hornet]

Ahhh alright

[zinc hare]

Gotta make it from scratch, there won’t be any proper guides at first since everyone is trying to figure everything out

[amber cape]

For developers here who have experience in Java, I would like if you send me a direct message. I am a junior developer and AI student, I would like some assistance and questions and also suggestions too.

[west elk]

That's what I'm thinking. I'm pretty sure they're not going the Roblox route with an inbuilt currency where they take a massive cut with every transaction

[hard walrus]

tbh porting minecraft mods isnt a really good idea, hytale is meant to be it's own game not mc modpack simulator 2.0

[lunar swan]

So you mean a sort of network of servers ?

[frigid gust]

I think I'll start developing all the server-side code, to get ahead.

[pine hornet]

Thats cool one one hand but also harder on the other

[storm glacier]

Yeah basically, from a business sense i would prefer that

[rich solar]

I use storage mods in any game I can. So Im not going to port 1:1 but the mass storage idea itself.

[storm glacier]

Network of servers under a single entity

[lunar swan]

Yep, it's a totally different game, so things shouldn't probably be written in the way / logic etc.

[hard walrus]

yeah I'm down, I am just a little worried people might bring too much from minecraft.

[hybrid yoke]

I will develope a website software for Hytale community servers

[lunar swan]

That could work. It'd probably be a good way to aggregate a lot of users into a single place, and better redistribute players across all servers, probably.

[pine hornet]

Smart

[hard walrus]

there already has been one for years lmao

[rich solar]

I forsee the same problem. I think the early life of hytale will be like fortnite to roblox. A lot of copy and pasting of the same systems.

[west elk]

For my Minecraft server I have a really simple selfhosted WordPress shop that sends webhooks to my server. Not fancy but easy

[hybrid yoke]

?

[rich solar]

I plan to do discords integrated shop feature with a passthrough to hytale

[hard walrus]

need a better one though, the one that exists is just littered with p2w minecraft slop style posts

[zinc hare]

That’s also what I’m planing to do, but more simpler so like discord updates for servers side stuff

[west elk]

What's discords cut?

[pine hornet]

I am fearing the legal aspect of this. Since I live in Germany there is a ton of legal stuff invlovled

[hard walrus]

not a bad idea, it's streamlined at least

[hybrid yoke]

I currently provide website services for Minecraft and many other games. When Hytale is released, I will also provide Hytale support.

[rich solar]

feel free to read about it on discord serversubscriptions site.

[hard walrus]

oh I thought you meant a website to list servers on

[rich solar]

It uses stripes so similiar payment processor bs

[west elk]

As long as you declare the taxes correctly, you just need a proper Impressum and data policy (store as little customer data as possible. For example I got rid of all the address fields since that's not needed for digital content)

[hard walrus]

dont love it but they gotta make money somehow

[hybrid yoke]

Oh no. I am developing software similar to Tebex, but with modules such as a forum, blog, and support ticketing and more

[rich solar]

Yeah but instead of dealing with any bs from any one./Discord deals with it and I pay the same premiums that I would any way. So for me its a win win to integrate discord with hytale and have all purchases managed via the discord server itself.

[rich solar]

90 / 10 split

[hard walrus]

yeah its better than paying refund fees from paypal

[rich solar]

Yes! Plus if you are already going to have your community in discord... its all in one place. No forum site, no premium account sites..etc.

[vast bison]

honestly that sounds bad

[hard walrus]

yeah friends and whatnot got yeeted from hytale because it wouldnt be ready for EA

[vast bison]

sharing inventories doesnt make much sense

[lime python]

Will need a toggle for people to allow or disallow people bringing items from other servers/worlds. Unless its only friendd based.

[hard walrus]

I'm sure it'll be balanced

[vast bison]

i guess it depends if its genshin style with ur survival loot going between worlds

or each world is in its own right a seperate story

[hard walrus]

and you can probably turn it off like a gamerule

[rich solar]

Could be like ark's method of transferring too

[hard walrus]

it's also just an idea and not a feature

[storm glacier]

Ok so who here was planning on making a game/server themselves?

[west elk]

Everyone in this channel

[meager needle]

pretty much

[gusty aspen]

yeah, I mean maybe not a full on server but definitely going to mess around with plugins, make cool stuff.

[storm glacier]

Ok fair, im going to be sending a friend req to whoever wants to socialize

Trying to network a bit in advance

[meager needle]

well.. I'm new to this minecraft coding. So I don't think I would provide much value, I just want to start coding in minecraft and then soon hytale for fun and maybe make content

[errant zealot]

Planning to make a mmorpg server. Actually been my plan ever since I saw the hytale trailer back then.

[gusty aspen]

I've got a question though, like mc has spigot api etc, would hytale have something like this built in and not require external APIs?

considering Minecraft have also gone the non-deobfustication route, I suppose hytale would have some tools for devs

[gusty aspen]

can help you out and also gain more experience working with you, interested?

[storm glacier]

Why would we need a spigot alternative in hytale?

[errant zealot]

Sure

[gusty aspen]

not alternative, my question was, would Hytale devs provide an API like it themselves to make modding/making plugins easier. I suppose this would be the route they went.

[errant zealot]

I'm planning to do a full class combat and talent system before creating any kind of content.

[gusty aspen]

I'm ready, let's work together to build something awesome. sent you a friend request, let's see for when it comes out

[lunar swan]

That should be plenty for now.

[west elk]

Correct, that's what they mean by native mod/plugin support

[storm glacier]

I hope so yeah

[feral oyster]

I'm planing to make something technical... although I'd probably take inspiration/port something relatively old-school since I still prefer the less complicated minecraft mods from the beta ~1.3-1.7 era of minecraft

[vapid sky]

1.7.10

end.

[distant iron]

But on top of it they also give the ability to script for client side so you dont have to abide to the limitations of vanilla like how minecraft does it with the server plugins. (no more double chest inventory trickeries ❤️‍🩹)

[proper wadi]

May not need it if Hytale supports an official API

[hard walrus]

yeah the ui engine they are using is top tier, we get to send xaml files now instead of chest ui's

[gusty aspen]

yeah, that's what I was asking. Official API or not.

[gusty aspen]

oh damn, this is THE WAY to make a game last forever. modding is amazing

[rich solar]

Ive been just tracking those who are pretentious and blocking them. So Im doing anti networking lmao

[sudden quartz]

what language is Hytale going to use?

[rich solar]

server side will be java. Client is C#

[feral oyster]

server java, client C#... client is not moddable, all mods will be server side with clients fetching necessary art/assets from the server

[atomic jay]

mods are gonna be on lua right?

[west elk]

Client scripting looks like it will be JS

[distant iron]

Just letting your community build already kinda immortalizes games (look at old CS modded servers for eg)

[delicate quest]

full java, no lua

[feral oyster]

unknown, presumably java...

[ocean anvil]

#simonthesavior

[distant iron]

those games are 20 years old and still kinda active

[gusty aspen]

hopefully. don't want to learn lua 😭

[hard walrus]

lmao

[proper wadi]

It’s amazing games haven’t figured this out. So many missed opportunities

[distant iron]

It's because most big MMOs are made by AAAs that have to abide to stockholders that are clueless in how to make a constant revenue source

[feral oyster]

I don't believe there are any known details about this... if it will be modable at all... presumably just using custom XAML snippets for noesis (ui library confirmed to be used by hytale) with RPCs to/from the server

I don't think hytale team wants anything to run on client... for security etc.

[rich solar]

Yall think they will have a bug bounty system down the road?

[distant iron]

Still most probably lua or anything sandboxed

[hard walrus]

high fives

[feral oyster]

although this is just my speculation of someone who's been working in gamedev as a programmer on many projects... and so that's how I'd do it 😄 - i.e. don't do anything on client, all server... server authority all the way

[gusty aspen]

100%

[hard walrus]

pretty sure simon mentioned this being a plan

[rich solar]

yes but with all the changes and income situations. Im just curios if they will bring it out in EA or post launch

[hard walrus]

post

[verbal lichen]

Already on the website, so?

[hard walrus]

is it?

[verbal lichen]

cant post link, but yes. /security

[verbal lichen]

^

[hard walrus]

actually huge

[feral oyster]

seems like that's currently mostly related to the website itself rather than game... though that will probably get updated

[gusty aspen]

is a endpoint scan considered illegal? just asking I don't think so

[rich solar]

It also wasnt updated after Simon taking over. So we will see how this changes

[feral oyster]

depends on jurisdiction... but generally it's a gray area

[hard walrus]

it's mostly chill I think

[delicate quest]

do we know something about hytale auth integration? if we would like to integrate some kind of player authorization on web for example?

[rich solar]

No its not.

[hard walrus]

if you probe too much your ip will just get blacklisted

[rich solar]

Nope. Almost nothing is known as of right now

[gusty aspen]

i hope they have something like the Discord Auth system so servers can get information about their players or something like that.

the steam oauth if anyone knows that one. but it should explicitly state it's sharing info so kids don't get scammed 😂

[storm glacier]

Porbably comparable to @lavish lynx

???

[vapid sky]

Dude, don't mention haha

[storm glacier]

why does it autocomplete to a ping

[gusty aspen]

lol thats how discord works

[rich solar]

That is how discord works...

[storm glacier]

Since when

[rich solar]

forever...

[gusty aspen]

since forever my guy

[storm glacier]

If i dont do a @ i just type the word hypixel

[gusty aspen]

are you on phone?

[gusty aspen]

wtf nah it shouldn't autocorrect

[zenith mist]

scamming for a server would be short sighted as HELL lmao serbvers at lunach hav million dollar poetnetial if there good lmao

[gusty aspen]

wtf?

[storm glacier]

Yeah idfk

[vapid sky]

idk rick

[storm glacier]

Nice one

[rich solar]

I only have that on vencord

my normal discord doesnt do that at all

[storm glacier]

I mean i have vencord installed but im not even on it

ill reinstall later ig

[west elk]

It's a new discord feature

[rich solar]

Might be a new feature. But I see what you mean

[rich solar]

YEP. Its not in full rollout just checked it out.

@storm glacier You arent crazy!

[storm glacier]

Omg!!

[rich solar]

My ven has it due to the feature being pre-unlocked by my settings.

[mossy cloak]

[rich solar]

Man I cant wait for my discord server to have enough users to have enough traction to have enough boosts to have a hytale server directly in it. 🤣

[delicate quest]

you made a hytale server in discord?

[storm glacier]

what?

[delicate quest]

you made gta6 in minecraft redstone?

[rich solar]

Discord has the soon to come feature for having hosted mc servers via I think nitrado* with boost points. So im joking saying Hytale server via boosts

[hard walrus]

it would be nice

[stiff bridge]

Who’s planning a server? What’s your idea?

[solid sand]

i'm very sad

[west elk]

Why would you use switch there instead of if/else?

[solid sand]

I'm trying to get the type of equipment tho. This is not the best example tho and i am half asleep currently

[plush torrent]

Play the game for a bit to see what it actually is/can do then decide

[keen pecan]

Do you guys know if there's already some kind of api to start developing plugins, or we should be waiting for the release

[hidden glade]

Wait

[west elk]

There isn't

[keen pecan]

😭

[solid sand]

There isn't unfortunately no blind coding

[west elk]

I'll be making a plot-based roleplay server with rpg elements (skill trees, magic, player economy)

[short arch]

You could do this in Kotlin

[solid sand]

You can also do it in java 23. And I don't think I can use kotlin in paper api

[short arch]

you can!

[west elk]

I write all my paper plugins in Kotlin. It's so nice to use

Will use Kotlin for Hytale as well

[plush torrent]

^

[solid sand]

I prefer java. Oh did I also tell you I use java in android development

[plush torrent]

Psychopath

-someone with his laptop in front of him right now doing android development in kotlin

Kotlin becoming the primary android language has been a blessing

[solid sand]

You call it a blessing, I call it a tragedy

[west elk]

Oops null poiner

[sterile dove]

Oops async programming in java

[solid sand]

Don't insult async programming in java

[plush torrent]

Kotlin coroutines aint bad

[sterile dove]

I only wish it was keyword like async or suspend

[solid sand]

it's one of weaker sides of java unfortunately

[sterile dove]

U should try kotlin for few months u will never turn back

[plush torrent]

I am also a java enjoyer but the null handljng on kotlin is just so convenient

[gilded fractal]

hi

Has the game been downloaded?

[sterile dove]

Also in java people dont use @nullable ect often

[plush torrent]

Ive never met a developer who tried kotlin from java and wanted to go back, that should speak for itself (i came from java too)

[west elk]

Nothing yet

[sterile dove]

So u never know what can be null so better to just check for all nulls

[solid sand]

Tho i don't get why would you use kotlin for paper api

[west elk]

I use Kotlin for any and all JVM development

[mossy cloak]

❤️

[west elk]

Paper plugins are not some special case. It always benefits from Kotlins advantages

[solid sand]

I will never switch to kotlin for paper plugins.

[sterile dove]

Dont matter where u use it, if it supports java it supports kotlin

[plush torrent]

Do yourself a favour and start with it for hytale plugin making though

[solid sand]

how does var model:String make sense. Like it just slows down the coding

[plush torrent]

You will thank yourself

[short arch]

symbian supports java, but I doubt kotlin would work lmao

[gilded fractal]

How to play it؟

[feral oyster]

wait for release

[sterile dove]

Do var string = "s"

[granite raptor]

wait

[sterile dove]

U cant rlly say kotlin slows u down since it has all the tools to make u faster:D

[gilded fractal]

My nation

[solid sand]

tf is fun in kotlin

[lunar swan]

I am. Basically, it's gonna be a realistic, physics-based, coop server, with a theme set in the medieval ages. One example, players won't be able to break any block they want with their hand, but it'll be tool based. Of course this may already be different in Hytale, but it's only an example.

[sterile dove]

I guess the only language you have ever used is java?

[plush torrent]

^

[solid sand]

Nope, it's just dumb

[sterile dove]

Wait til u see func or def

[mossy cloak]

Hello to everyone who wants to join, I will be opening a community/server from day 1

[solid sand]

Javascript is also just pythonscript

[gilded fractal]

hello?

[plush torrent]

I was about to fall for the rage bait but clearly you just are stubborn and have some java complex

[solid sand]

tho I would rather use javascript than kotlin

[sterile dove]

But its not tho, hating a language you dont know and which has been proven to be better, but it doesnt make java bad, same if u compare javascript and typescipt, ts is just better

[plush torrent]

Lol enjoy living in the stone ages then the rest of us will be in greener pastures

[solid sand]

I'm not hating the language just the syntax which makes coding longer

[sterile dove]

But it doesnt?

[plush torrent]

And let me guess, why use typescript, it just makes coding longer vs javascript

[clear lodge]

Languages are tools w different tradeoffs, they’re all useful for different use cases

[short arch]

kotlin is generally less verbose than java

[sterile dove]

What is longer in kotlin than java?

[sterile salmon]

you can literally type javascript in java dw

[clear lodge]

Kotlin has implicit typing which means you don’t usually need to say it’s a String, just you assigning a value to a string will automatically mark the type

[solid sand]

At least kotlin is still better than python

[gilded fractal]

Welcome How to play it؟
My nation

[west elk]

The game is not released yet. You have to wait.
My nation.

[clear lodge]

You only need to mark the type in those languages if it’s ambiguous, so less verbose overall unless you’re making everything explicitly typed for no reason

[round sun]

With JavaScript you’re driving faster… until you smash into a wall at 120 mph and realize user.name was undefined while you were confidently calling .toUpperCase() on it.

[plush torrent]

I know i was just being sarcastic to the other guy

Ive lived the struggle, never again

[clear lodge]

First language I learned was JavaScript lol, it was a trip but teaches you a lot about runtime debugging :P

Typescript is much nicer for projects I need to be stable

[solid sand]

Yesterday this server was full of java enjoyers

[plush torrent]

I still enjoy using javascript for little demos or prototyping occasionally

[short arch]

heres a programming language that will give him a heart attack

[plush torrent]

But yeah id never go big on it again

[granite raptor]

APL yeay

(Never used)

[clear lodge]

I’m also a Java enjoyer! I actually prefer making Java mods and don’t use Kotlin as much. But Kotlin is still useful in its own way

[short arch]

it's not APL, but close!

[plush torrent]

I am a java enjoyer, thats the language I started with, but that doesnt mean kotlin is bad lol

Your in here arguing that ones good and ones bad lol

[lunar swan]

what the hell is this 😱

[solid sand]

Aside from async programming what's better in kotlin?

[short arch]

it's called Uiua

[granite raptor]

I think I would rather use malbolge at this point tbh

[west elk]

Null handling!!!

[plush torrent]

Null handling, flows and collections, extension functions

[sterile dove]

i enjoy java and been enjoying it for 11 years, but I just enjoy kotlin more:)

[clear lodge]

iteration speed, Java is one of the most verbose languages (which is why I like it), but it’s slow for quick prototypes or functions

[lunar swan]

Is it some kind of heretic language ?

[plush torrent]

Programming is just quicker in my experience

Lots of little stuff that adds up really

[clear lodge]

I can spin a prototype up in fewer lines of code in Kotlin or Python than I can in a statically typed language

[short arch]

its stack-based, array-oriented language that uses glyphs for primitives

[west elk]

Coroutines

[plush torrent]

To be fair i havent used modern java much so I do know they added some of the kotlin QOL features i just dont know what

[lunar swan]

How do you even type it ?

[sterile dove]

Also can code 1x app and it will work with same code in linux,ios,android,desktop and as website

[clear lodge]

IIRC there’s some implicit typing support (var keyword), but I still stick with explicit where I can

[summer sapphire]

Kotlin is still statically typed 😁 but I get your point

[plush torrent]

Yeah i always use explicit

But thats just preference really more of a work requirement lol

[clear lodge]

Explicitly I meant 😂 Good correction!

[short arch]

the primitives have ascii names, you type them (or just part of the name) and the formatter changes it to a glyph

[round sun]

What about C#)?

[solid sand]

C# is nice

[plush torrent]

Havent used it except like one class in uni

[clear lodge]

C# is neat I just haven’t used it in as many projects. Well one of my biggest ones is a Minecraft mod so that has to be Java

[warm hare]

thoughts on Go?

[clear lodge]

Planning to use it more for another project, though I haven’t really used it outside Godot/Unity

[solid sand]

I will have to try kotlin. Seems like it has a few nice features. Java is a perfect language for minecraft tho. Oh and null safety is for mortals

[clear lodge]

I mean Kotlin is basically syntax sugar for Java, so should work great

[solid sand]

kotlin's syntax is weird tho.

[short arch]

i can only imagine an immortal vampire programmer wanting to end it all over null pointer exceptions

[clear lodge]

Just takes getting used to, I think you’ll find iteration speed faster once you learn it

People can make kotlin Minecraft mods too but I find for bigger projects, I trust Java far more

The bigger a project is the more I want explicit typing and other compile-time stuff to keep me sane

[short arch]

I used to think Koltin was weird too, but after using it for a bit, I started to prefer it over Java syntax

[clear lodge]

I need to use it more tbh! I only know surface level how it works

[sterile dove]

Coroutines will be the first hard part

[clear lodge]

Java I know like the back of my hand though, I can usually syntax check code by hand without an editor

[clear lodge]

Is it similar to Unity coroutines? I’ve used those before

[sterile dove]

Never used those:D

Actually i did few years a go a bit, but nothing similar

[clear lodge]

Seems different at first glance, did a quick search. Pretty neat

Since Kotlin translates to Java, I expect we’ll want to work on Kotlin support for Hytale modding so that even more people can be modding

That’ll be a good excuse for me to learn it lol

[solid sand]

Wondering if hytale will be multi threaded or just single threaded like Minecraft

[summer sapphire]

Personally, I think beginners should start with Java over Kotlin. Java’s so-called “verbosity” actually makes it easier to see what’s happening, which is great for building strong fundamentals.

And honestly, modern Java isn’t even that verbose anymore… most people who call it overly wordy either haven’t used modern Java or are just repeating what they’ve heard.

It’s obviously more verbose than Kotlin but again, easier to read and understand… that’s the trade off

[clear lodge]

Good question for the tech lead! I think he was collecting Q’s for a blogpost which might come out soon

[sterile dove]

Pretty sure it handles it atleast better and simon talked something about multiple server instances

[clear lodge]

I agree with you overall, but people will have their preferences. Some people will only learn Kotlin and never will learn Java, so best to support both!

[zenith mist]

server meshing fun

[sterile dove]

So we probably wont need proxy server

[solid sand]

If hytale is multi threaded then kotlin could be the go to language tho if it is single threaded I will just use Java

[summer sapphire]

There’s no way it’s gonna be single threaded

IMO

[static portal]

why?

[short arch]

I'm sure you can learn all the same fundamentals just starting with Kotlin, it's like saying you shouldn't use Rust until you've learned C

[solid sand]

Kotlin handles asynchronous things better.

[sterile dove]

Just code whatever u can code, bot are good languages

[clear lodge]

Single-threaded Minecraft was an artifact of not knowing the true scale of what the game would become. Most games that have this level of performance in mind will be multithreaded

[static portal]

explain?

[clear lodge]

Better might be a matter of opinion, if people are more comfortable in Java overall then they’ll find a way even if it’s more awkward. Performance of both should be perfectly fine

[sterile dove]

Its cleaner and clearer with suspend functions

But just my opinion

[clear lodge]

Ooh found some fun articles to read. I’ve got a lot to learn here

Can’t link em here but I don’t know much about either language’s approach to multithreading

I did learn Java multithreading looong ago but haven’t had an excuse to use it, so I think I forgot it all

[scarlet spoke]

I don't think it will be our tasks to care about multithreading at all

Usually the resources should run on other threads than the sync

[clear lodge]

Yeah I doubt modders will need to worry about it as much unless they’re doing some crazy performance critical stuff

[summer sapphire]

Not saying you shouldn’t, just saying it’s easier to understand being able to see what is happening right in front of you.

E.g.
Java class
public class ServiceDog extends Dog implements Trainable {}

Kotlin classes
class ServiceDog : Dog(), Trainable

One is objectively easier to understand

[scarlet spoke]

If you trigger to much of sync events, ofc the main thread will be the bottleneck x)

[sterile dove]

Of it will be our task, if u are gonna do heavy io tasks u have to choose the right executors, for light tasks virtual threads ect

[short arch]

Is it? If you don't know what extends and implements mean, it's not all that useful that they are words instead of a :

[clear lodge]

Kotlin is less verbose, not necessarily easier to understand if you aren’t familiar with the language

[summer sapphire]

Imagine a beginner, a simple program will be hard for them to read, revise, learn from enough without having random symbols tricking them

You’re talking as someone who’s experienced

[sterile dove]

Kotlin has so much magic, i would recommend java more for beginners

[clear lodge]

IMO if you only ever intend to make stuff in Kotlin, then just learn Kotlin
If you want to know both, slight preference to Java first for understanding more of the underworkings, then you can appreciate Kotlin more

[summer sapphire]

Ive taught a few kids coding recently and I’ve noticed that the more verbose the better for understanding what is going on. And for building on that knowledge

[short arch]

: is punctuation, it's designed to separate a line into different parts and create distinction. public class ServiceDog extends Dog implements Trainable is just word soup to the untrained eye

[summer sapphire]

If the only language you knew was English, then the word soup is the symbols, my friend

[clear lodge]

Yep this is my big argument for CS majors learning Java first, since they will eventually need to learn other languages. Some courses have switched to python first and I hard disagree with that.

On the other hand, if you’re only learning programming on the side and will only ever use python and you don’t need full understanding of all the details, then Python first (and only) is fine. It’ll just make it harder to pick up other more verbose languages later

[scarlet spoke]

Never said that we go fully sync. If the architecture of the server is well designed, we can only break the threads the server application gives us for plugins. Usually other tasks like entity AI, world updates, block updates etc. should run on other threads

[keen pecan]

Without any doubt kotlin syntax is way easier than java

[clear lodge]

My favorite multithreading is when it’s abstracted out by fancier programmers than me so I can just work on the logic :)

[keen pecan]

Expecially for a beginner

[summer sapphire]

Also, again, I speak from experience, sure it’s an opinion and of course you can just learn Kotlin. But in my experience Java is just easier to understand for beginners.

[covert trench]

Hi everyone!

Nice to meet you all. I would appreciate it if someone could answer a few questions. I'm a computer engineer, and I've heard that Hytale will allow creating servers and modding. Is there any documentation to learn more about this? (For example, what a plugin looks like in this game, or when we’ll be able to start experimenting with it.)
Does anyone know when we will be able to develop plugins like we do for Minecraft servers?

Thank you so much!

[short arch]

do you think learning something like Lua would be easier then? It's really light on symbols

[scarlet spoke]

Will be released, also server code should be published

[clear lodge]

I tend to agree if you’re just trying to get started in modding either language. But for a better fundamental understanding I prefer Java first.

If you learn both anyways, doesn’t really matter

[keen pecan]

I mean, if you're talking about fundamental, the best language is C

[clear lodge]

lol I actually disagree, in terms of syntax it’s a lot less clear and verbose than Java

[covert trench]

Ty!

[keen pecan]

This is without any doubt the best language to start if you really wanna learn how to code

[covert trench]

And is based on Java?

[scarlet spoke]

Serverside Java plugins data-driven C# clientside

While C# is more likely just a UI thing?!

[clear lodge]

I’ll do you one step further, clearly if you really want to learn to code you should start looking at binary machine code, then maybe Assembly if you need something a little more human-friendly :)

[covert trench]

ty!!

[summer sapphire]

Well Lua is a scripting language. So you can ignore the actual architecture and fundamentals and just get to the logic

[scarlet spoke]

arr[1]

[clear lodge]

I actually looked into this, seems like they’re using a specific C++ library for their UI. It has a C# SDK but it’s an industry standard UI framework

[keen pecan]

You misunderstood what i said, Java is an High Level programming language, you code with other's code. With C you learn better how everything works, starting from a simple sorting algorithm, all over to data structures ^^

[scarlet spoke]

NoesisGUI: C++ Game UI Framework

[keen pecan]

And also memory management of course

[clear lodge]

You can make data structures and sorting in any language? Especially Java

Memory management is a fair point, that part is abstracted away. But you don’t have to use the java standard library, I learned data structures by making them in both C++ and Java

[short arch]

You can do impressive things in any language, with most of the same architectural decisions
Balatro is written in Lua

[clear lodge]

Yes that one

[scarlet spoke]

In the end any language will go back to assembly and then binary which are just logically 0 - 1 checks. So, it's just a thing of which layer you start looking down

[covert trench]

nmap scripts too

[blissful egret]

The thing with balatro is that lau makes perfect sense for the kind of game they were making.

The JVM (Java Virtual Machine) can be a bit funky when it comes to games because of the overhead.

[keen pecan]

Agreed, but let's take as an example the sorting, in java you can sort a list of int with .sort, many peoples might do that without actually knowing how a sorting algorithm looks like

[scarlet spoke]

But, do they need to know it, that's the question. If it runs, keep it x)

[short arch]

Lua is a C wrapper
C is an Assembly wrapper
Assembly is a Machine Code wrapper
Machine Code is a Binary wrapper
Binary is a Physics wrapper
Physics is a Math wrapper
Math is a Logic wrapper
Logic is a Philosophy wrapper
Philosophy is a Humans wrapper
Humans are a Carbon wrapper
Carbon is a Star-forged-matter wrapper
Stars are a Gravity wrapper

[blissful egret]

lua is genuinely a fire scripting language

[hollow hollow]

Has anyone here actual thought to themselves " A Double Red Black Tree would be perfect here"?

[keen pecan]

Of course, i'm talking here about coding fundamentals

[summer sapphire]

Let me phrase it like this:

Lua is a scripting language, yes you can do impressive things, but it doesn’t push you into learning the fundamentals. It takes effort to even get into deeper meaning.

Java hides things like memory management and gives you an easy to understand “verbose” syntax that allows you to both touch on fundamentals and learn about programming.

Kotlin is like Java but it further hides things from you, things that I see beginners getting lost in and forgetting. When your brain knows English, it tends to get confused by : vs extends. When you’re learning you want to be able to just go back and read without having a dictionary next to you.

Just like there are reading levels for books. Java is like a lower reading level for beginners.

[scarlet spoke]

That's the IT engineer pov

I don't think all current Minecraft modder started with IT engineering

[summer sapphire]

A lot of software engineers started as Minecraft modders though 🙂

Me included 😁

[scarlet spoke]

I guess so x) But did you know the sort algorythm used in Java back then?

[hollow hollow]

I stated out modding Jedi Knight acadamy

[summer sapphire]

Not at all

[summer sapphire]

And I didn’t need to

[scarlet spoke]

Me neither. It worked, so not my beer

[keen pecan]

I'm talking as someone that got demolished at University to learn those things lol

[blissful egret]

For me it wad the other way around. I started with modding minecraft and now I'm learning how to make software.

[scarlet spoke]

IK! It's very important that people study it. Your fundamental knownledge will secure us from AI slob in the next decades

[summer sapphire]

Exactly, in fact, Minecraft plugin dev experience is what got me my job

[keen pecan]

I actually have no clue about how AI works 😭 If i'm the one who should save you, you are in big troubles

[summer sapphire]

It sounds silly but it’s true, all experience matters and you can get into coding however you like. As long as you enjoy it and learn, that’s what’ll keep you around

[clear lodge]

The one caveat I would bring up is that IMO C is syntactically confusing compared to Java. Java is verbose but incredibly clear, even if it hides memory management. So Java is more approachable IMO and still helps you learn a lot of the same fundamentals, ofc if you don’t just cheat with a premade standard library

But I agree with you overall. I personally have a weaker understanding of pointers because I didn’t start in C

Everything else from Java transferred well to other languages though, so still my favorite starting language

[median dragon]

You guys are cooked, we all know Typescript is most superior language

[summer sapphire]

Get this guy out

[scarlet spoke]

ngl, it's widely used meanwhile

[short arch]

I guess we disagree what fundamentals are. In my experience Kotlin only abstracts away some of the JVM fundamentals, like boxed/unboxed primitive types, less verbose syntax more standard library functions for the more annoying parts of Java. But the code organization, the control flow, basic types, the approaches to solving problems are mostly the same - arguably a bit easier because the standard library has more tools.

[clear lodge]

Jokes on you, that’s actually the one I use most these days due to career 😂

[median dragon]

Amen, this man knows!!!

[summer sapphire]

That’s a good point

[rough dove]

new code actually gets written in this language compared to java

[scarlet spoke]

Nah, not for game engines

C++ is the way to go. V8 is based on C++. Easy integration

[keen pecan]

I totally agree that C is really tough for a beginner, imaging trying to understand how pointers works when you've been coding since 2 weeks, but i think that's exactly the point of it. Once you manage to learn one of the most difficult languages, others would be easier to be learned

[blissful egret]

You're profile picture is really cool! Did you make it yourself?

[clear lodge]

Makes sense to me, though I think in part the less challenging syntax of Kotlin makes it so that picking up Java is harder later. You totally learn all the same control flow things, but other concepts might be magicked out by such a high level language which creates additional learning curve when you go for other languages later

[median dragon]

ThreeJS has come a long way, don't knock it too much lmao

[hollow hollow]

Lets just agree that each language has its uses, they all have niche uses where depending on the scenario. Use them like tools, pick the best one for the occasion.

[clear lodge]

Sooo hytale new engine 😅

[scarlet spoke]

ngl, it was the best move you can to for performance

[clear lodge]

Thanks! I did not make it myself, stole it off the internet a decade ago

[summer sapphire]

True, I think Kotlin adds additional learning curve simply because it literally adds things you have to learn or (from what I’ve seen) memorize

[scarlet spoke]

It just went horribly wrong and they f*cked up x)

[clear lodge]

Oh I agree. Too bad it was mismanaged to death

I do appreciate being able to write Java directly for mods though, I’m not sure the same would’ve been true with a C++ engine

[storm glacier]

Not related to plugins but check this out

[summer sapphire]

I think they said Lua for C++ engine

[clear lodge]

Seems like they were looking into lua which I wouldn’t enjoy as much

[short arch]

Oh yeah, having coded in OOP languages for over a decade, I tried to learn a functional, stack-based, array-oriented, glyph language and it's been pretty hard to transition all the same concepts because of how different it is and how much it abstracts away

[clear lodge]

I prefer being a little more bare metal than lua, I like managing some memory 😅

[rough dove]

depends from person to person, but most universities I know teach out Scala, Haskell, Ada etc as first languages, which doesn't fit this

[clear lodge]

Functional languages my beloved

[scarlet spoke]

HTML6 will be superior programming language in 2027, you'll see

[hollow hollow]

Those paradigm shifts can be rough some times

[median dragon]

This man knows!!

[summer sapphire]

Well UW teaches C++ or Java based on the school and they have one of the top programs

[scarlet spoke]

25% faster than c

[rough dove]

HTML6 will launch a new ECS driven rendering engine for all your layout needs

[solid sand]

#showcase asset editor

[scarlet spoke]

Man, everybody will ask why you got so much playtime in Hytale, bcs u can freakin' do all the asset edits in the game

Hytale most played game 2026 ngl (in hours)

[summer sapphire]

I thought the portal looked done long before it was done

Great job by whoever was in the video

[hollow hollow]

Im getting black hole vibes from noita

[rough dove]

my university switched from Java to Scala, with Java as the following course afterwards instead as an advanced course

[solid sand]

Interested if we will be able to export the assets somehow to api. I just hope there's no built in ide

[median dragon]

This

[solid sand]

Maybe it could generate api code or something

[gleaming pecan]

oh the new video is them literally editing a server, if you look in the top left

man this is crazy stuff

[clear lodge]

I think the video is Polina who has made some awesome stuff like fire and combat VFX for Hytale in the past! Glad to see they’re back on board

[clear lodge]

Strongly doubt they’ll do a built-in, that’s just more work for them for an inferior product. Blockbench also runs externally already and it’ll need to interface w that for the model editor

[clear lodge]

What is Scala even used for? I’ve heard of it but never seen it

[solid sand]

Definitely weird, i'm used to plugins/mods editing everything

[median dragon]

Crimes against humanities, its such a miserable experiencing using it

No I'm joking, it's used for data pipelines mainly

[static portal]

NEW VIDEO!

[clear lodge]

Fascinating

[median dragon]

Not really

[clear lodge]

Yeah sarcasm lol. Well, fascinating that universities are choosing to teach that first over Java

[median dragon]

Yeah its nuts

[clear lodge]

Sounds like a bonkers decision to me but I also have no idea what Scala is besides your description

[median dragon]

Java, whilst its a mid language, is very good to learn as it teches a lot of important fundamentals

[clear lodge]

And importantly it’s still used in the right places

[median dragon]

Oh yeah Java powers 7.2 billion devices and all that 💀

[clear lodge]

I still see it on occasion

[solid sand]

Repeat that again

[gleaming pecan]

yeah then having to reload them manually by command or even having to restart the damn server 😭

[clear lodge]

So many flashbacks

I used to do datapack creation back in the day and made some cool stuff before my current Java mod. And ran a private server with plugins that always broke on new updates

[hard walrus]

the whole data driven model they got going on goes kinda hard

[solid sand]

I love compiling my plugin and then waiting a minute for my server to restart just to find out i made a stupid nullpointer error

[clear lodge]

Both Minecraft and Hytale are doing more data driven stuff and it’s great

[median dragon]

Too many times

[clear lodge]

I still really like datapacks even though they’re limited technically

[static portal]

we can modify shaders i think!

[hard walrus]

probably will still have to restart for mods for now though

[gleaming pecan]

sadly im not a programmer but ive been doing configuration and small art things on mc servers for years

[hard walrus]

hytale will be your sandbox my friend

[clear lodge]

Never too late to learn! Though one of my goals as a programmer is to make content creation easier for people who don’t want to learn Java

[gleaming pecan]

it feels like a miracle tbh, being able to work this freely in a ingame config

[gleaming pecan]

yeah ive learned basic json formatting and the like but i could never wrap my brain around code well even after completing cybersecurity and networking certifcations

[hard walrus]

learning java will still be a good idea, you'll hit roadblocks that can only be solved through code every so often

[gleaming pecan]

yeah agreed, i just gotta find some time and motivation

[clear lodge]

For logic, the drag and drop block style of coding is still pretty solid and helps you skip the syntax learning curve. I def want to make some kind of thing for that
But if you’re already handling json, the syntax might be fine for you xD

I’m suuuper excited for the data driven mob behaviors

[gleaming pecan]

again basic json, limited to replacing and small formatting jobs, im pretty good at finding stuff that may be hard to read but not great at writing it. code blocks would be amazing

most of my skills are in customizing already made configuation files and working with assets and file structures

if i learned java i think i would be a lot more productive

[clear lodge]

My very first days getting into coding was code.org’s drag and drop blocks, that helped me understand the flow and problem solving. Then it was like hey this is actually equivalent to these lines of code. Rest was history

I’m actually actively working on another project which involves turning config and behaviors into JSON so I can make them data-driven for my designers :) I’ve done similar before with contextual speech (which I want to bring to Hytale!) and the designers liked it

[hard walrus]

I'm going to put up a dedicated website for modding guides and videos if anyone is interested in joining the discord for it, will be taking tutorial suggestions as well

[clear lodge]

Count me in. I like writing guides and docs :)

[surreal hemlock]

I could help out! lemmekno if you want help! :D

[hard walrus]

put an invite on my profile

[gusty aspen]

we have a discord with over 100 members, if you wanna join

[hard walrus]

I'm in it

[clear lodge]

I’d like an invite to this one too

[gusty aspen]

it's in @nova shard's bio, we have people that will be making libraries etc on day 1 so we will always have something new for ya'l

[clear lodge]

I’ll be wanting to make libraries too 😂 Got some ideas that’ve been cooking since 2018

[gusty aspen]

ngl you should post your ideas and get even more feedback from people

[hard walrus]

im not making another modding discord, this one is purely for making a website to put guides and videos on

[gusty aspen]

you can have that on ours, want me to give you the guide maker role?

[clear lodge]

I’d like that role too! And I shall throw in my ideas when I get a chance

[hard walrus]

sounds good to me! saves me from setting up another discord server 😂

[gusty aspen]

can you both ping me in any channel? hard to find you 😂

[crude hill]

does anyone know how many ticks will hytale be? minecraft was painfully 20t/s

[willow acorn]

any chance we can have server files or documentation before actual release?

[static portal]

we don't know

[gleaming pecan]

they will probably release what they have when the server jar(?) gets dropped

honestly they may having nothing other than getting a server started though

[viscid wren]

Just seen shared source on the server code. Good news.

[gusty aspen]

where?

[gusty aspen]

where did you see the server code

[viscid wren]

It’s on “the game” button on the Hytale website stating the server code is shared source

[gusty aspen]

ah

[gusty aspen]

I thought you SAW the source code

[gleaming pecan]

that may be outdated 😅

[worn tartan]

yeah, they said that also in the last blog post

[chilly oar]

I guess thats different from normal documentation. maybe we get documentation before launch. I am wondering how the architecture looks like, maybe similar to minecraft but maybe very different

[static portal]

we probably are going to get a doc but if we doesn't, intelij has a great decompiler

[rough dove]

having the server be shared source, atleast for the old engine, has been the plan ever since they announced the game 🙂‍↕️

[leaden solstice]

if i recall properly, opensource server is part of the original vision, thats pretty cool

[molten raptor]

in an interview Simon said they don't gonna monetize for the coming 2 years

In the antvenom video

[manic pine]

that sounds pretty confident, day 1 making libraries without even knowing the extend of hytale lmao

[gusty aspen]

lol

[meager radish]

Hola. Sabemos si el desarrollo de servidores se tendrá la posibilidad de hacer plugins personalizados o todo se basará en la herramienta integrada?

[elder socket]

MC server code is closed source, right?

[rose atlas]

im buying the founder's edition 👀

[storm glacier]

Afaik what they specifally said is they are not taking a cut from modders/creators revenue from their in game sales

[elder socket]

i hope capes will be something that isn't super common

[wispy elm]

I think mojang does not like their server code being edited or distributed but you can decompile and read it

[static portal]

yes, there exist open source implementation tho

[gleaming pecan]

i cant wait for someone to make a pokemon mod then get blasted out of existence by nintendo

[static portal]

mojang actually likes it as its how mod are made

[clear lodge]

I hope it’s not just capes. Just exclusive cosmetics in general. I’d like everyone to have a basic cape at least if they want one for their Avatar

[wispy elm]

No they dont allow their server code to be modified and distributed like you cant hand out a modified jar , the work around is stuff like paper downlaofs the jar and modifies it on behalf of the user so it technically doesnt count as modifying and distributing

I think papaer or forge or aomeone got in trouble for this i dont remember wxactly who

[static portal]

they allow modification but not distribution of it, thats why all mod/plugin loader inject itself into the game and isn't a fixed jar

[wispy elm]

Ah yes youre right i just read it, it disallows public modification and redistribution

[near raptor]

If you download Paper and start it, the first thing it does is to go to Mojang's Piston service where it downloads the Minecraft server jar from official sources.

With Spigot, there was BuildTools to download the jar and apply the Spigot patches. Basically in both cases, noone would be distributing the official jar

The Minecraft Protocol is quite well documented, and there have been efforts to build the server software on completely different languages like Go. But as far as I am aware, none are feature-complete. Still an impressive effort though.

With Hytale, since they mentioned the server will be open-sourced, none of this is probably needed

[lilac prawn]

I can't wait for Hytale Rust server

[hollow bear]

Hytale GTA incoming

[lilac prawn]

Then we'll get Hytale WASM, Hytale C, Hytale Assembly .......

Hytale Binary when

[vale star]

The Cobblemon guy has plans to do a server in Hytale (don't know if it will be a Pokemon server though)

[gleaming pecan]

good luck to him godspeed

[leaden crystal]

I can't wait for Hytale PHP server 👍 🦧

[near raptor]

Funny you say that, a Minecraft server has been written in PHP several times. Don't think any of them really worked properly though

[leaden crystal]

pocketmine 🦧

[leaden crystal]

nopeee!! dont dislike php((

[foggy hawk]

Hytale Holy C

[static portal]

Holytale

[lilac prawn]

Hytale Brainfuck

[lucid sluice]

a hytale server in brainfuck would be nice

[lilac prawn]

HAHAHAHA JINX

[leaden crystal]

hahahah

[rose atlas]

@tired harness @icy cove @silver jolt can you guys please do something about these people please?

we trynna talk about hytale and stuff but they wanna troll

[lilac prawn]

who

[lucid sluice]

who said i was joking

[lilac prawn]

Exactly, it'd be pretty funny (and impressive)

[lucid sluice]

i'm tempted to try making it, but i don't think i would get anywhere

[lilac prawn]

I should say that Hytale being rewritten in any way would be incredibly impressive

[lucid sluice]

not even sure if it's technically possible

[rose atlas]

they returned to the legacy engine they arent rewriting anything

[lilac prawn]

??? Nobody said they were

[leaden crystal]

yep, i will make it on php

i real love php

[lilac prawn]

What are you talking about

[manic pine]

technically not possible unfortunately

[lilac prawn]

Oh whaat. Okay, Brainfuck + C

[manic pine]

brainfuck literally is just a string encoding algorithm really

[lucid sluice]

if no one beats me to it i'm making one in luau

[manic pine]

you can learn it in 20 mins or so

[lilac prawn]

So you're making it in Roblox?

[lucid sluice]

sure performance will be awful but who cares

[lilac prawn]

Now THAT would be impressive

[manic pine]

off by one

[raven robin]

Does anyone know language we would be coding plugins in?

[lucid sluice]

no i'd use something like zune as a runtime since it has tcp sockets.. but i could probably make it work in studio somehow

[manic pine]

Typescript, Html-like, css for client and Java for server

[lilac prawn]

Java or (maybe) Luau

[raven robin]

Thanks

[manic pine]

idk where you got the Lua information from, i dont think theyre using Lua (luckily)

[lucid sluice]

old blog post that riot made

[manic pine]

for the new engine? maybe
concerning legacy engine it looks like its going to be Typescript

[leaden crystal]

html/css in hytale? 🤓 nope

[silver jolt]

Please use the /report feature instead of pinging.

[rose atlas]

im so sorry i had no idea that was a thing.. forgive me.

[leaden crystal]

i think it will be declarative UI + rendering through a custom engine, nope html?

[rich solar]

I mean they haven't given any information so I dont blame you for not knowing lol

[rose atlas]

Hytale ui uses something called "noesisengine" or somethin

[leaden crystal]

maybe, its cool way too

[indigo solar]

I'll be honest I wish the UI was a bit more stylized, looks very distinct to Hytales fantasy world, maybe in the future it gets a redesign

[rose atlas]

servers can modify the UI to their liking

[indigo solar]

Too much modern/sleek designs in most of the UI make it look like a placeholder (which I'm hoping is the case since its early into development)

[indigo solar]

Obviously, as is the case with resource packs — I'm talking Hytales identity on a whole thru its UI

[rose atlas]

i say give them time to polish it

[indigo solar]

That is... also clarified in my message already :p

[rose atlas]

lmao yeah

i have a great idea for a plugin

calling it "Core"

[undone creek]

in fairness, this is the old legacy engine UI

i mean, im sure there been pently of redesigns for the new engine honestly but i think the UI looks good

and iirc it was said that you are going to be able to edit the UI anyways

[rose atlas]

we said that

[undone creek]

if its something like fivem with a UI design that be great

[rose atlas]

yes. something like fivem

[undone creek]

yep exactly

so even if people dont like the UI it will be changed by servers im sure

[ripe spruce]

i just joined the server with an alt so i can say that i think you might have timed out my main @manic pine mistakingly, i'm not a troll and ive just been timed out for a day for seemingly no reason and no other way to contact mods ugh

[indigo solar]

The UI is objectively good, but it clashes with the stylistic nature of Hytales gameplay IMO

I think preferably it's better used for productivity

[rose atlas]

im thinking of making a plugin called "Core" that will provide servers with "Essentials" stuff like area spawning, group manegement, etc. like a AIO essentials pack.

[undone creek]

fair enough, i mena like i siad im sure servers will change it and im sure that texture packs will be a thing

[rose atlas]

Servers can change textures live

[undone creek]

not a bad idea, but i think the name core is a bit boring consdiering it just sound like a minecraft plugin that was made lol

[rose atlas]

i mean it might be boring but its straightforwards

oh

[indigo solar]

Core sounds vague LOL

[undone creek]

^^^^

[rose atlas]

fair enough but i dont wanna go with "Essentials" either.

[undone creek]

Just go with somtehing hytale related honestly

[indigo solar]

Yeah but Essentials for what exactly

[rose atlas]

Servers

[static portal]

Hysential?

[undone creek]

i think his idea is to make the essentials plugin in hytale

[rose atlas]

Group manegment
Spawning management
kits, etc.

[ripe spruce]

couldnt reply with my main, but wanted to drop this: 2016-12-29.log:[05:40:03] <AgentK> <AgentK> The server technology is Java, but it'd be smart to learn HTML5, CSS, C#, and TypeScript, but Noxy forbids me to elaborate further

[undone creek]

Hysential i like the name

[rose atlas]

Sentinal?

[static portal]

sound like a anti cheat or a tech mod

[rose atlas]

HYTCore?

[indigo solar]

Hysentials or HyCore both sound like good names

Good name @static portal

[rose atlas]

itd look dumb to put "Hy" behind everything for hytale 😭

[indigo solar]

Won't be if you're the first to do it :p

[rose atlas]

mm i dunno

[indigo solar]

The same way people put MC in their modpacks or plug-ins

[static portal]

why not basiComand? that is more explicit to what it add

[indigo solar]

MultiEssentials or MultiCore works too

There's a lot you can do than just Core tbf LOL

[rose atlas]

opinions?

[static portal]

pretty good

[rose atlas]

my only issue is funding

[undone creek]

i mean that depends are you writing it yourself or are you planning on hiring someone to do it for you

[rose atlas]

might hire a dev for it

[rose atlas]

the baseline is that it'll be an "Essential" plugin for every server.

instead of downloading 3 different plugins for stuff, this one will do it all, like group management

[undone creek]

id would just learn how to make it yourself honestly

[static portal]

yeah same
but tbf dev is my passion

[clear lodge]

There’s an xkcd for this…competing standards

[static portal]

honestly 3 plugin is better then one

[rose atlas]

yeah but ur running more resources, instead of 1 optimized pack X)

[static portal]

meh
kinda and kinda not

[rose atlas]

fair

it is server's ops after all!

[static portal]

its hard to judge ressource usage of mods (or even game like MC)

[clear lodge]

3 plugins would allow server owners to have more control and mix & match different solutions. Versus locking them into what you think the perfect solution is

Optimization is secondary to that imo

[static portal]

meh
adaptability is good, cost of perf is bad

[clear lodge]

You don’t know the cost of perf. They could basically be the same performance or to the level where you cannot tell

It’s a micro optimization unless we know there’s a marked difference in performance when running 3 small vs 1 big

[lilac prawn]

well. okay then I guess, don't ever talk about the Brainf### or you'll be timed out for an hour

[clear lodge]

RIP

[lilac prawn]

without any warning, even though there's no rule against swearing

[clear lodge]

Well yeah it does include profanity, might just be automod

[lilac prawn]

yeah and apparently saying BF's full name constitutes circumventing the filter (even if you had no idea such filter existed)

[rose atlas]

i just hope hytale isnt involved in serious drama unlike minecraft 😭

[night wedge]

for modding do we write our mods in java?

[lilac prawn]

yes

[night wedge]

thats sad

always hated java should’ve been c# tho

[rose atlas]

C# is the client

[rose atlas]

But everyone in minecraft already knows java - so the transition is gonna be easier

[night wedge]

true but if you know java you’ll know 90% of c#

java is toooo bloated

[rose atlas]

ok

incase u missed it - they brought back "the game" tab

some stuff has been changed

[night wedge]

that’s great

[twilit phoenix]

It would be great if it had an api to allow developers to further extend the functionality of that same plugin.

[rose atlas]

so extensions?

[twilit phoenix]

basically

[rose atlas]

or perhaps it can be an open-source community driven project

[rose atlas]

so each server can have its own version of it

[static portal]

can easly be made by making an event system in it

[twilit phoenix]

Yes, but having an API would allow extending functionality more easily by not having to directly modify the plugin's codebase.

[rose atlas]

what plugins would users like to see come?

or rather server ops

[upper flame]

Hi, someone know, what language will be use in the game ?

[rose atlas]

Java.

[twilit phoenix]

java

[rose atlas]

if you dont mean coding: English

😂

[twilit phoenix]

and JavaScript for scripting

[clear lodge]

Scripting language is not confirmed yet. I doubt it will be JS personally

[upper flame]

oh thank you thank you\

❤️

[rose atlas]

nah its not confirmed yet..

[twilit phoenix]

appears in the 2018 trailer

[clear lodge]

Was already confirmed that this was a mockup only

[rose atlas]

they changed it to "under construction".

[twilit phoenix]

Are they going to change it?

[rose atlas]

dunno anything about in-game scripting as it says "Under construction".

[clear lodge]

Either way Kotlin bindings will most likely exist, so that can work as a scripting language

[rose atlas]

🤷‍♂️ maybe

[twilit phoenix]

The client is written in C# so I see it as difficult.

[clear lodge]

Client is not moddable, only server

[rose atlas]

You won't ever touch the client

[urban fiber]

maybe lua?

[rose atlas]

you can MAYBE PLUG IN to it... but IDK???
nah thats just servers.

[twilit phoenix]

Scripting is likely to be used to handle the client.

[clear lodge]

I mean I’m guessing Kotlin bindings will be made by the community even if not officially supported lol

[twilit phoenix]

please no

[rose atlas]

The truth is: WE have no idea anything about in-game scripting... the website information changed to be "Under contruction".. so disregard any old information about it.

[clear lodge]

I’ve seen this opinion in multiple places and I think it’s a misinterpretation of what Simon said. Both scripting and modding are for server-side only

[rose atlas]

And your client will download whatever content the server has

[clear lodge]

Scripting is just a more accessible way to put in logic than a full Java mod

[formal burrow]

If you are in Europe: Go with Hetzner. If you're from America: Go with OVH. Whatever you do, do not use AWS/Azure/GCP it's overpriced garbage

[twilit phoenix]

I think that would limit things quite a bit.

[rich solar]

I left ovh behind a long time ago. F them. Lol

[clear lodge]

I agree there are limitations, but I believe that’s the tradeoff Hytale is making for increased client security. We’ve known this from the start

There are ways for Hytale to mitigate these limitations though

[formal burrow]

were you one of the people whose server got destroyed in the fire?

[twilit phoenix]

I honestly don't believe that scripting isn't used to handle the client

[clear wedge]

I am not in Europe, being in Brazil [Latin America].

[rich solar]

Dedicated server costs were x2 our current host. Baremetals cost was x2...etc. Just super over priced now. We got a 10x performant server for half the cost of our old ovh bare metal

[rose atlas]

How extensively can I mod the game?
Every aspect of Hytale is customizable, from damage values to animations, models, weather, combat mechanics, and more. Our ambition is to empower our community to make entire new worlds for themselves. We will cover this more deeply in an upcoming post showcasing the breadth of content you can make.

all this without needing to touch the client itself..

[clear wedge]

And you're right

[twilit phoenix]

it doesn't make sense that client-side logic can't be handled with code.

[green atlas]

I wonder since the server sourcecode will be opensource if someone could just make the server in C# for c# modding