server-plugins-read-only

[teal cosmos]

you gotta love the private activity so you cant see anything LOL

[mystic rose]

funny you mention roblox because thats where i get those player counts at

i developed a game called "Retrostudio" with a few friends

[knotty tendon]

retro studio

thats the game where a bunch of people who want to be like nostalgic and whatever

[mystic rose]

all time peak was ~2800 so yeah you’re correct

[plain canyon]

rip they got nuked

[knotty tendon]

oop

[mystic rose]

oh he got banned

[dapper wedge]

Oop bye purplz

[lilac rose]

Is there any information on how optimal the servers will be?

[marsh zealot]

looks like he got banned, thank you staff

[mystic rose]

ye

[somber pulsar]

you have made a mistake

[marsh zealot]

that guy was impersonating me for some unknown reason

[rich solar]

They will be back on their next account. They impersonated two others already lol

[knotty tendon]

yeah

so weird bro no one liked that guy

[stray canopy]

i have not heard the name kohi in a long time 👴

[modest burrow]

who was it?

[mystic rose]

someone named "vodez" if im remembering the name correctly

they got banned

[sterile dove]

Morning

[marsh zealot]

dont worry about it, lets talk about hytale plugins 😎

[worn bough]

well seeing they made a server plugins channel that confirms we will have mods alongside server plugins

[rich solar]

Mornin

[prime nebula]

didn't we already know that?

[worn bough]

you probably already did, but to me i didn't

[prime nebula]

ah okay

bro's back

[rich solar]

from blog post:

It's possible to mod almost everything in Hytale (content and server-side)

[mystic rose]

oh my the impersonator is back

true

[rich solar]

Oh hey 10minutes passed and hes back

[silk crest]

im hoping for a roblox-level freedom on modding tools

i said this like lots of times but one can hope

[rich solar]

    It's possible to mod almost everything in Hytale (content and server-side)
    Non-developers can create impressive experiences with minimal technical knowledge
    A few guides or videos will be enough for most people to start creating
    We will provide server source code access within several months, once we're legally ready to do so
    Dedicated server support and data-driven content configuration
    We're being mindful of backward compatibility as we iterate
    You can create your own custom servers, maps, adventures, etc
    More details will be given in a future blog post

based on that you probably will

[mystic rose]

i mean yea that’s one way of saying it, i do intend to work at roblox in the future

[silk crest]

Yeah we'll see when it relases, if it is, im modding it day 1

[rich solar]

^

[plain canyon]

why doesn't anyone think of using grpc instead. There won't be any need to wait for an api...

[modest burrow]

cuz its gonna be udp

[rich solar]

Most will probably not use gRPC

[plain canyon]

grpc and protobuf was made for this exact purpose tho, then again i code my plugins in csharp.

[modest burrow]

and http/2 has too much overhead for a game

[west elk]

Would make it more difficult to debug and maintain, especially during prototyping/development

Ease of development is probably preferable to network efficiency during early access

[plain canyon]

if you don't do the packets correctly that's true

[rich solar]

I mean in short as long as you accomplish what you want how you want. Then any thing is game.

[marsh zealot]

running code within the game process and interacting with it over some network api are totally different...

[modest burrow]

not true ur throwing a grpc, http/2 header, and tcp header on top of your packets

but its probs using udp anyways, as it should

[plain canyon]

I'd say at the very least 92 to 200 bytes per packet on each tick, which is probably less than 70μ, per entity/event

my setup rn uses this and works ok with events

[hearty parrot]

hi everybody!

[mystic rose]

hello octobrain

[plain canyon]

heyo

[rich solar]

👋

[hearty parrot]

and I just realized this is server plugins oops i'll go to discussion

[rich solar]

👋

[modest burrow]

for what

[plain canyon]

for like bosses and pathfinding, I need to process each player move event and block update

[marsh zealot]

sounds like more work than just modding the server, which we're told is going to be source available

[plain canyon]

I'm pretty sure you would loop through all the lore instead of using persistent data containers btw, let me know if that isn't the case : )

[modest burrow]

i'd loop through every player, then every players item, then every single lore until i found it.

[plain canyon]

but looping through all the lore is slow, accessing itemmeta then the pdc for whatever use is the fastest unless theres reason why

[somber pulsar]

wrong

[plain canyon]

...

[modest burrow]

then id use grpc to contact my proxy

[mossy cloak]

🤖

[rich solar]

"Sodium Chloride" Kind of conversation right now.

[somber pulsar]

@plain canyon youre on to nothing bruv

[plain canyon]

yawn

[somber pulsar]

you like glue?

[plain canyon]

anyways just use gRPC and make ur own api so its ready when hytales out

[modest burrow]

yea guys use grpc good idea

thats what minemen club uses

[somber pulsar]

this doowy guy is a downy

[plain canyon]

thanks for taking the piss : )

[worn tartan]

is it necessary to talk like that though?

[somber pulsar]

yes

[rich solar]

I find it hard to be a fabric softener. <joke>

[marsh zealot]

it's how the average terminally online gamer interacts with everyone i guess

[worn tartan]

i mean if it's okay for you to not follow the first rule in #rules-and-info then yeah sure keep going

some people just straight up missed that channel i guess

[somber pulsar]

prplz aren't you quite literally terminally online?

isn't your purpose to be terminally online?

i find that comment ironic

[marsh zealot]

hey im just saying words, take them how you want

[somber pulsar]

hows kohi in the big 2025

?

[marsh zealot]

im just here to talk about hytale plugins friend

[modest burrow]

prplz why do you loop through all the lore instead of using persistent data containers

[plain canyon]

would you use chatgpt to code?

[rich solar]

Whelp im off since this chat is primarily going to be judging and "pretentious attitudes" Gn/mornin all

[marsh zealot]

is this a reference or something that im not getting?

[modest burrow]

i use chatgpt to loop through all the lore

[modest burrow]

.

[plain canyon]

must've been the wind : )

[ebon agate]

What the hell is prplz doing here.

Is it the real one

@serene kraken or this guy

[marsh zealot]

he's just a fan

[ebon agate]

Im a fan too

[marsh zealot]

speaking of fans, time to cool off for a bit have fun

[ebon agate]

Why can’t i send gifs this server is lame as hell.

[dusky girder]

Hi

[worn bough]

i still do not know who kohi is

[ebon agate]

Kohi on hytale 😳😳😳😳😳

[ebon agate]

Minecraft server

It’s very old

[rich solar]

I believe it was the one that merged with the lion client stuff right?

[modest burrow]

what about pvplounge @ebon agate

i heard thats coming back on hytale

[ebon agate]

Merged with badlion then badlion got sold to lunar then they give the ip back to prplz

[rich solar]

Ahh I thought it was the same one. Thanks for the short recap

[worn bough]

i see

[ebon agate]

Very known server a lot of ppl love it

[worn bough]

I never played it as I was just a builder at the time not a pvper

[ebon agate]

Idk that server

[half holly]

Glory to Albania brother 🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱

[red badge]

Holy throwback

[ebon agate]

The average kohi player has a family of 5 now

@marsh zealot how old are you

[ebon agate]

FR

[quiet brook]

Hi al3x

[stable haven]

is there already any info on in which language modding and scripting will be?

[quiet brook]

Yea, c++.

[stable haven]

Alr thanks

[west elk]

Blog post says the current engine is mainly C# and Java. People are saying that scripting may additionally use JavaScript but I don't know the source for that

the C++ engine is being dropped, though

[stable haven]

Hmm they say you will be able to create things without having a lot of knowledge

[west elk]

yeah they mentioned some sort of visual drag and drop thing like Unreal Engine's Blueprints. Not sure where on the timeline that is, though

[wind cape]

I'm assuming it'll be like Roblox in that regard? prebuilt tools to make scripting more intuitive

[vale star]

I guess it would make sense to have a modding & scripting done in JS. They can embed V8 to run modders' scripts, and make it possible to reload scripts on the fly.
At least, if I was a Hytale dev, that's how I'd do it

[vocal kettle]

that was what the new engine would be like, a roblox competitor, but its scrapped now, so it'll go back to what it was originally supposed to be, its own game/minecraft competitor

[misty gyro]

In the legacy engine it was said that the server software is written in java so IMO it will be like a spigot/paper plugin but just in another way ^^

[dark ocean]

I so happy i been sit on this from day 1 wait for this day the years of hold all new zealand website ips not as waste now just got wait a bit longer. now just got hope all old meber come back

[cloud sun]

guys

I really need the client side to be moddable

[sacred storm]

What programming language will we use for making plugins if anyone know?

[tawny ginkgo]

Prob java and c# (question mark)

[west elk]

A lot of people are talking about javascript for scripting and Simon also said he has plans for a visual drag and drop thing like Blueprints

[cold whale]

You actually don't, maybe even ui's can be modded from the server side

Then the client would only be a dumb drawing client that does nothing but draws what the server says

[unreal crown]

It kinda means that solo modded isnt possible no?

[cold whale]

Most games like Minecraft also runs the server in single player

[unreal crown]

Ooooooh I see

[cold whale]

Then it's just on your machine and only you access it

[wraith crane]

it can be possible

[unreal crown]

So it’s not such of a problem, doing only client-side would even cause issue on servers nah?

[wraith crane]

just neeed ALOT of data coming from server

[unreal crown]

Yeah that would mean that UI would be from data, i know mc mods like fancy menu which uses assets on local machine so it’s different

[cloud sun]

you think we would be able to, say, gather sound input per player instance on the server side?

probably not right

[cold whale]

Things like proximity chat and voice I think already in game Simon said once or that they wanna do that by there own in the future

[unreal crown]

There already is voice chat via plugins in Minecraft, why not Hytale? I don’t think voice packets will be impossible but yeah, integrated would be much better

[cloud sun]

yeah, later on, but do you think we would be able to gather mic input?

without a client

[cold whale]

It's actually quite a security issue I think would be much more pleased if the game handles my mic input and send it to server instead of a mod listing to my mic and mybe sending it off to third parties

[cloud sun]

fair, they did say they limit stuff if it intervenes with security

[solemn night]

But I hope they reconsider shader modding. There could be so many cool things when we would have acesss to shaders.

[hidden glade]

Relevant tweet

[fringe eagle]

there really needs to be a FAQ of these things or something

[lusty crater]

so we can't modify the ui?

[cold whale]

Again just an information from the server to the client, use this shader

[hidden glade]

Probably via scripting, but that's speculation

[lusty crater]

hope so

[fringe eagle]

that being said I'm pretty sure it was mentioned they're writing that - a blogpost detailing modding capabilities specifically

[solemn night]

After what I read years ago you won't be able to make own shader but rather rely on FX effects where I'm not even sure if we can make completely new ones :C

[cloud sun]

you probably can, since that would limit alot

[lusty crater]

yeah generally client mod limitation would be bad

[cold whale]

If the community wish is big enough they will find ways to make that possible, keep in mind that this don't gonna be a new hype title game where you don't hear anything in three weeks but rather building with the community for years

[lunar swan]

You're totally right ! Imagine if each server could dev some really unique stuff without having each user download a specific client or a specific set of mods ? That's be insane ! It would mean that modded-servers would finally really thrive, because there wouldn't be any real wall between the players and the servers ! That would be a breakthrough and groundbreaking !

[lusty crater]

also if you want to modify a specific part of the game and server doesn't support it you would need to wait the devs to imnplement that

[cold whale]

I thinks that exactly how they approach/vision things to be

[viscid wren]

probably java

[lunar swan]

That'd create so many opportunities, that'd be insane ! I'm already in the starting block to create a server on launch, and if I can mod it only from the server-side... That's a long and distant dream coming true !

[viscid wren]

I can't wait to code my own java plugins, I love coding stuff like that and programming is my thing so I could probably get really creative

[cold whale]

Yeah I'm just wating to get my hands on the game im a senior programmer at day and a hytale modder at night

[zinc apex]

i said this earlier, but this is such an old post and it really like is hypocritical to what i feel like the vision is for hytale. It seemed like the hypixel team was fed up with minecraft and wanted something with better modding support and stuff they could customize more. I think hytale will have a lot of client side modification support. Hypixel has been trying to create stuff on their server that could be easily made if mojang created some client side modification features like custom items and mobs for Hypixel skyblock. It just doesnt make sense if hytale doesnt have better support. My takeaway from this is that modding will be mainly done on the server but the server can pass data like textures and items and sounds and UIs to the client and hopeuflly they can pass scripts maybe to the client so they can have their own logic?? but idk.

[pure panther]

not being able to mod the client would stop hackers though or to an extent

[lusty crater]

they can implement sandboxing

[modest burrow]

They will modify it anyways

[west elk]

Custom items and mods can all come from the server

[fringe eagle]

"stop hackers" - probably not, but maybe reduce the amount of script kiddies yes

[west elk]

I haven't done a lot with Garry's Mod but iirc that's all server-side as well, right?

[hidden glade]

Client side scripting and tooling overall can allow that. No need for modding if your game includes everything needed to change the behavior of virtually everything

[pure panther]

i just hope they find a better way to deal with it unlike on hypixel its self

you can hardly join any game without finding one

[covert shadow]

This gonna be like MTA.

[sacred storm]

Awesome

[sacred storm]

Yeah I'm on phone didn't see that :)

[pure panther]

ohh oki

lets hope they do this game right

[covert shadow]

A hybrid mode with server-side + client-side, with API official, secure distribution can be better, like Roblox, VRChat, like, client can receive shaders, advanced shaders.
Server API (Gameplay, entities, persistence, logic)
Client API (UI, HUD, graphics, effects, animations, particles)

Server-Side authoritative logic
Client-Side presentation, graphics, effects
Sandbox security, no cheating, no malware

This allows beautiful, modern effects without cheating risks (because the server still controls gameplay).

[pure panther]

didin't they say they had tools that allows you to still change stuff so wouldn't needing client side modification be redundant

[covert shadow]

yes, if the tools are good enough.

[final salmon]

Is there any chance plugins could be written in c# as well?

[west elk]

unlikely

[pure panther]

simon recognizes the need of moding for this game, i am sure they will be good

[west elk]

unless you can find a way to compile C# to jvm bytecode ^^

[final salmon]

thought the engine is part c# part Java thats why i asked

[pure panther]

the game is written with both java and c# you dont think they would add both?

[covert shadow]

i believe also, this is the promenince

[final salmon]

but i guess the server runtime is on java

[west elk]

the client is written in C# but we will only be able to modify the server that's written in Java

[wooden galleon]

probably not in the launch, i feel that they will need a lot of feedback to bring a good modding experience

[covert shadow]

they're going to switch to Rust in the future to make it better

[final salmon]

ohh okay

[covert shadow]

[pure panther]

hmm idk he did talk about how modding needs to be in the game for it to survive. At the very least i think it will be decent

[final salmon]

A channel with tech discussions i guess would make sense here, i guess more documentation will come at launch though

[pure panther]

where did you get this info?

[hidden glade]

What

[covert shadow]

just joke

[pure panther]

i was like

[fringe eagle]

lol

[final salmon]

wasnt funny 🙂

[pure panther]

lol

[covert shadow]

plot twist

[final salmon]

hahahahaha jkjk

[eternal crag]

rust = blazingly fast

[final salmon]

rust = blazingly hard

[covert shadow]

OH WERE GO AGAIN"

[pure panther]

i do wounder how they are gonna make it cross platform eventually

[vale star]

I heard that for server plugins, you'll have to choose between Rust or Assembly

[pure panther]

i am praying they dont do a mojang and make 2 versions

[hidden glade]

rust = no more devs to mod anything

[final salmon]

if the client is written in c#, dotnet is crossplatform

[fringe eagle]

i heard that for server plugins, you'll have to choose between uxn and zig

[final salmon]

depends on the underlying framework

[covert shadow]

jaskdjsadkasj

[vale star]

And modding will only be compatible with Windows's Notepad

[fringe eagle]

and linux ed

[final salmon]

atleast may it be notepad++

[cold whale]

I thought they said that they gonna switch to Haskell

[covert shadow]

works only on TempleOS

[fringe eagle]

Finally, modding in HolyC

[final salmon]

HolyC#*

[covert shadow]

will we have to do mods like optfine, sodium?

[wooden galleon]

hope not

[final salmon]

depends on the reason right?
performance will probs be there out of the box, zoom and stuff, i don't think thats supported

[eternal crag]

Wouldn't be great if we need performance mods

[fringe eagle]

I mean it will probably be a thing at first - the game has been stated to be not fully baked, I expect that QoL and performance mods will be some of the first ones to hit the stage

[final salmon]

have they announced anything like a marketplace for mods/plugins? like the mc one?

[covert shadow]

I think that, being ex-minecraft players, they understand the "pain" that players face, so they'll fix those things that Mojang ignores

[wooden galleon]

and there will not be that kind of performance boost mods since we are not allowed to change the client side

[vale star]

It'll be funny to see how fast "basic" plugins (like WorldGuard/WorldEdit/Perms/...) will be developed

[final salmon]

i assume the original devs will port them instantly

since its java again, only the api changes
logic remains

[hidden glade]

On the client side, hytale allows for "content" addition so I think you won't be able to add core functionalities like optimisation. That also means the game will have to perform better than what Minecraft used to be, the staff will probably focus on improving performance

[covert shadow]

yes

[final salmon]

realistically even mc nowdays, doesn't perform that bad

at least not as bad as it used to be 10y ago

[vale star]

Will the server be multi-threaded?
If not, I hope they will implement a way to seamlessly transfer a player from a server to an other

[west elk]

no info on that yet

[fringe eagle]

considering that mods are server-bound I imagine transferring player from one server to another will not be available out-of-the-box

[hidden glade]

I'm curious about how they'll prevent client side modding tho. They obviously won't make it easy, but you can't disable it completely. Kernel anticheat maybe? That comes with its own cons

[west elk]

iirc Hypixel has been asking Mojang for transfer packets for years so hopefully Hytale will have something native for that

[final salmon]

will be very interesting to see how the "oss vs paid" discussion will go when it comes t plugins, mc plugin devs will try to benefit fromt he new game if they can instantly port plugins

[fringe eagle]

I really hope no obnoxious player-side anticheats are in this, imo player behavior should be verified by server-side based on state information

[pure panther]

good thing riot is not here then

[hidden glade]

You can't always do that

[final salmon]

gameplay is server-side so checks could be done there for unusual inputs

[fringe eagle]

Depends on implementation and server-client protocol.

[pure panther]

i mean you kinda can

[wooden galleon]

probably the engine riot developed used vaguard but since they are returning to the legacy one they just dont have enough time

[hidden glade]

x-ray, players tracker, path finding, can all be done locally and have nothing to do with the server

[fringe eagle]

If you don't send players the excess data, xray and player tracking is not possible

[final salmon]

even x-ray can be handled on the server if it has enough computing power

you dont have to send all block info to the client

[hidden glade]

What

[covert shadow]

its a point of view, for me nothing, but to another guy who have potato pc not, when you need a mod to gain 30 more FPS, which is something Mojang has completely neglected

[fringe eagle]

this is like already a thing on minecraft servers lol, just send wrong data for blocks that a player should not be able to see

[final salmon]

anyways without proper tech docs we cant really predict that

[hidden glade]

They prevent x-ray but they can't catch players using it

[fringe eagle]

Yep, a lot of this depends on the details of implementation.

[pure panther]

they can

[final salmon]

if you use it to see fake data, are you actually benefitting?

[hidden glade]

imagine a mod that displays players hitbox, or a helper for bow shots. That's client side

[pure panther]

i mean at that points its like i dont think you need an anti cheat for that

[hidden glade]

You do tho, it's still cheating

[pure panther]

to see hit boxes is not really a big thing

[final salmon]

as i said, it all depends on what data the client receives and renders

[pure panther]

its built into mc lol

[fringe eagle]

yeah literally lol

[hidden glade]

It's just an example.

[fringe eagle]

bad example

[hidden glade]

You took only one of the example I gave tho

[pure panther]

i mean the other one is like bow counter

[final salmon]

everything is possible and everything is counterable, this is an ongoing issue on all games, no hytale will solve it

[pure panther]

to see how many shots you have?

i mean thats not really cheating its also techically built into mc if you have the arrows in your hotbar

[final salmon]

you see how people script on league even with vanguard

[fringe eagle]

I think hy sea is talking about a projectile trajectory tracing tool

[wooden galleon]

maybe a good example would be a freecam cheat

[hidden glade]

No, imagine a mod that tells you where to shoot so that your arrow falls exactly where you want it to (visual indicator)

[pure panther]

trajectories?

[hidden glade]

Ya

[fringe eagle]

thats an interesting one yeah

[hidden glade]

Yeah that too

[pure panther]

could that also be blocked by sending wrong data to the client or to an extent

[final salmon]

again doesn't that depend on the physics engine and whether thats calculated on the server side?

[pure panther]

yea thats what i am thinking

[fringe eagle]

I don't think trajectory tracing could be blocked in any way

trajectory tracing is just maths

[pure panther]

i mean i can 100% see it being implemented in different ways

[hidden glade]

Nope. It can be handled on the server, but a client can mimic it

[fringe eagle]

yeah, unless there's like hidden variables that are not revealed to the client (but that would also be confusing for a player)

[final salmon]

make it bf6, add dispertion, slightly random outcome everytime (how bows actually work) and solved, no?

[hidden glade]

Reverse engineering on trajectories is quite easy tho

[wooden galleon]

you dont need the actual variables to predict that kind of thing

[pure panther]

ehhhhh i think that would be very annoying

[fringe eagle]

thats what I was thinking about too, but that would be annoying for players

[hidden glade]

Imagine being riot and working on valorant: let's prevent this by adding spreading

[final salmon]

could be configurable, for adventure servers you can limit it or turn it off, for pvp stuff its realistic

[fringe eagle]

it's an interesting issue for sure

[final salmon]

on fps like that you have recoil control to solve that

[pure panther]

i am just praying that they will do better then they have for hypixel

[fringe eagle]

I'd also posit the argument that maybe trajectory assistants shouldn't be counted as cheats and should be built into the game as an optional toggle

[pure panther]

what if you could only hold the bow back for a certain amount of time?

[final salmon]

not a bad shout, as grenade trajectories also exist in fps

[fringe eagle]

Could also be good for people with motion issues, makes for a good feature for accessibility

[hidden glade]

That's just denying the fact that there can be client side modifications that can't be detected by the server. Whether or not they should be acceptable or not isn't the issue

[fringe eagle]

But yeah this is a pretty interesting topic @hidden glade good argument

[final salmon]

could work, again depends on the setting, on adventure/exploring servers it makes sense and it adds something, on pure fun pvp it would bhe annoying

[pure panther]

i mean its better then constant random trajectories

[covert shadow]

hytale will only be truly protected against Xray if the client literally NEVER receives underground data ahead of time

[final salmon]

you could argue that 😂

[pure panther]

i kinda hope thats true

but honestly from how hytale looks all i wanna do is explore them caves

[final salmon]

i love how we have architected anti cheats while we dont even know the release date

community is excited and thats good

[fringe eagle]

lol

[pure panther]

i mean considering they already plan to announce the date in a few days i am hoping real soon

[fringe eagle]

well I'm sure a lot of people here are very interested in game development and game design

[hidden glade]

Which works in theory but isn't applicable. That would mean the server would need to send you "next" block data at the exact time you break a block. Even with a 10ms ping that would be noticeable

[final salmon]

how many people do actually play vanilla mc nowdays

[pure panther]

plus its pretty important especially if you take a look at current hypixel its borderline impossible to play without coming in contact with cheaters

[final salmon]

everyone cares about multiplayer and mods

[fringe eagle]

if the april fools infinity snapshot counts as "vanilla" - I do

[pure panther]

i actually tend to play vanilla more the mods((besides fps mods ofc))

[halcyon mica]

Was the server rewritten to Java or C++, I don't remember

[final salmon]

it could be radius based

[wooden galleon]

the majority

[pure panther]

java

[fringe eagle]

and actually I played on a more or less vanilla server last year, though I did use a client-side minimap mod

[final salmon]

by mods i really mean modded/plugin based servers

really? thats interesting ngl, haven't touched that in years

[pure panther]

i think its just bc i like nostalgia i tend to play older version of mc hahaha

[final salmon]

1.7 was the vibe cant lie

[wooden galleon]

usally people use free hosting services as athernos to play vanilla

[covert shadow]

it doesn’t stream blocks on break. it streams blocks inside a visibility region and only updates hidden placeholders when the face becomes exposed, there is no latency problem, because nothing is being sent “after” the break, only revealed
client-side cheats always exist, but they are harmless if the server sends zero hidden information, you can’t stop client mods, but you can starve them of data

[fringe eagle]

minecraft 20w14∞ my beloved

[pure panther]

iv been palying through all the old beta versions

[wooden galleon]

1.7 and 1.12 are still the best versions

[pure panther]

1.12 or 1.12.2?

[final salmon]

i think 1.8 was when the downfall started 😛

[wooden galleon]

1.12.2

[pure panther]

agreed

[wooden galleon]

modding nowadays is more like vanilla+

[pseudo mason]

Wasnt that when mojang got sold?

[pure panther]

pretty much

[pseudo mason]

Correct me if im wrong

[final salmon]

wouldn't know, but probably

[hidden glade]

"only updates hidden placeholders when the face becomes exposed" == on break, or am I missing something

Also "revealed" as you explained it is done client side, so that's beside the point

[pure panther]

if they do hytale correctly i wounder if mc will die

[pseudo mason]

Also why is there a slowmode in here and not in #game-discussion ? 😅

[pure panther]

or actually make mojang get off there asses

[hidden glade]

We're too fast

[tepid plinth]

making a geopolitical server for minecraft btw

[pseudo mason]

Obviously, please slow down.

[pure panther]

please dont bring stocks to mc

[fringe eagle]

to keep the game-discussion freaks in game-discussion

[tepid plinth]

no real money, lol

only items in game

[hidden glade]

server going strong 💪

[pure panther]

capitalism all over again smh

[fringe eagle]

to be quite objective, probably not

[wooden galleon]

lmao

[pure panther]

let a girl dream smh

[final salmon]

there are some smart ways to handle xray and they are not that hard, radius based block info, cryptographicly hiding info that can be decoded locally on block break and many other stuff

[wooden galleon]

mc will always be the sandbox

[hidden glade]

that's client side.

[covert shadow]

no, exposure doesn’t mean break. Exposure is any event where a hidden cell becomes potentially visible like chunk load, lighting update. and reveal is not client-side, the client only has placeholders. The server sends the actual block type the moment the block becomes legitimately visible

[tepid plinth]

It's a geopolitical server. You can make your country communist without using a stock market

[pseudo mason]

The 2 week minecraft Phase is like a phoenix

[hidden glade]

if it's not client side, there's latency involved.

[pure panther]

even worse

[covert shadow]

exposure is a visibility event, not a block-break event, so the client never knows the true block type until the server sends it, so no mod can reveal ores that were never transmitted

[tepid plinth]

nice ragebait

[pure panther]

huh?

me saying communist are bad is rage bait?

the times we live in damn

[covert shadow]

the client already has the data skeleton, it just receives the identity

[pseudo mason]

Mods, smite this political discussions

[covert shadow]

very minimal

[hidden glade]

Receives as in, the server sends it to the client? Latency.

[covert shadow]

0.1ms

[hidden glade]

ping ~10ms

unless you're playing in the server room

[final salmon]

unless you can break 10 blocks deep in a single second thats not an issue

again radius based, not the exact next block...
if youre going to xray for the next block you would find it anyway it doesnt matter

[covert shadow]

the reveal happens during the mining animation, which lasts ~300–500ms, and
a 10ms packet lands long before the animation finishes, so the player never sees any latency

[final salmon]

so you may delay the data for the block 5 blocks away from you, but you aint gonna need it anyways

[hidden glade]

but u keep kinda adjusting the rules of the problem so it fits yuor solution tho XD

[west elk]

Do y'all think Hytale will run on 20 tps as well? ^^

[hidden glade]

the main point being: servers can't detect and prevent everything a client does

[pure panther]

i mean there are anti xray plugins that kinda do that

[final salmon]

no no i don't all you need is a 2-3 block radius, which is reasonable, but again i agree with @covert shadow here i doubt the delay will be noticable, you can transmit data on block starting to break, by the animation end youll have the next block data

[weary mauve]

Can we talk about how ugly the Java 21 logo has become

[final salmon]

hopefully 😛

[covert shadow]

you assumed a client that waits for block data at break time, that’s the wrong model

[pure panther]

i like how this chat more turned into arguing over xray

[hidden glade]

hahah it's an interesting topic but yeah not my point at all

[pure panther]

i get what you mean by servers not being able to detect everything i 100% get that, but i do think you can detect a lot of things

[covert shadow]

visibility is pre-buffered in a radius, the client already has the geometry, and the server only sends the block identity when it becomes exposed. Latency isn’t visible because nothing large is streamed after the break

[pure panther]

like weird movement, weirdly amount of lets say diamond ore you pick up in a certain amount of time

[fringe eagle]

they changed the logo?

[hidden glade]

You are correct

[fringe eagle]

from what I can see on Java Branding and Licensing Guidelines the logo is still the same, so I'm not sure what you're talking about

[pure panther]

i think the game would also be a big turn off for most (me included) if it was a kernel level anti cheat

[hidden glade]

Latency doesn't only depend on the amount of data sent. If the servers are in chicago and I'm playing in the UK, you could send a byte and it would still take 100ms

[weary mauve]

It's this ugly mascot now

[fringe eagle]

lol...

[weary mauve]

What even is that

[pure panther]

thats my java 21 right there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fringe eagle]

this mascot has been around for ages, it's not new

[pure panther]

fr

[weary mauve]

Yh but now the .jar files have this thing on them instead of the coffee mug

[hidden glade]

👋

[pure panther]

show?

[fringe eagle]

and i personally think its pretty cute all things considered

[weary mauve]

I lowk deleted Java 21 the second I saw it, let me reinstall it

[pure panther]

lol

[fringe eagle]

lol what, change your icon theme man what has java 21 got to do with this

[pure panther]

why cant we have tea logo for java smh

[fringe eagle]

do they not let people change the file icons anymore or something, idk i'm out of the loop

[weary mauve]

I actually like everything added in Java 21 I js can't stand the logo

[covert shadow]

yeah, of course, long physical distance adds latency no matter how small the packet is, but that still doesn’t matter here, because the client never waits for the block data at the exact moment of the break, latency only matters when the player is forced to wait, which doesn’t happen in this model

[pure panther]

pretty sure you can

[weary mauve]

Too much work bro

[pure panther]

just download ore oreobfsucator and be done with it smh

this chat for the past hour has been about x ray lol

[hidden glade]

honestly I'm confused because I'm pretty sure that's not what you said earlier, but anyways I've gotta go so I have to stop the discussion here

Interesting talk tho!

[vivid basin]

this hypes me coding in java again 🥹

[pure panther]

can we just talk about how #game-discussion is all like hypixel X input here

[fringe eagle]

i try to not look at game-discussion

[pure panther]

the un talked about portion of the discord server

i love these square emojis lol

[dusky plume]

api when

[pure panther]

pretty sure they talked about it a while ago

or recent not sure

[fringe eagle]

There will be a blog post elaborating on the modding capabilities in the near future, as far as I understand

[scarlet spoke]

SDK when

[grizzled egret]

Now we need luckperms ported to Hytale

[open oar]

Напишите мне в лс если вы сможете написать плагин

[vale star]

What will be the first plugin you guys will code when the EA is released?

[misty gyro]

or just write your own one lol

[pulsar obsidian]

Permissions is relatively simple, we will have good ones Day one

[twilit phoenix]

kotlin port

[vale star]

My prediction on how modding will be:
Server-side plugins will be done in Java, similar to how it was done in Bukkit. Client-side modifications will be done in Javascript (run via an embedded V8 engine). It'll be possible to communicate between your Java plugin and your JS script.
When a player will connect to a server, they will be download all the assets (Textures, 3D models, Javascript scripts, ...) bundled by the plugins on the server

[fleet plover]

Isn't it c# for client

[woeful depot]

my prediction is java is the base and js is just an interface for people who don't want to deal with java. and c# for the game modding

I modded in various games and this is how it works

[harsh pike]

mixed opinion on js tbh

[vale star]

You can embed a V8 engine to run Javascript code from a C# codebase (With Clearscript, for example).
You can easily expose your C#/Java variables to the JS sandbox

[woeful depot]

yup

[solid epoch]

oh no not u 🙂

[harsh pike]

hopefully anticheat wont be just EAC or similar

but something serverside like vac

[fleet plover]

👋

[woeful depot]

guys I wanna ask to server owners, what kind of plugins would you want?

[fleet plover]

Good call, could be done like that

[solid epoch]

we can't tell what we want but we don't have any access and information of what we can create

[twilit phoenix]

Your prediction is probably correct.

[fleet plover]

I know Java isn't perfect, but I'm glad the server side is in Java since it's the language I have the most experience with

[harsh pike]

java is perfect in this case

[twilit phoenix]

It's not even known if Hytale will have anti-cheat

[harsh pike]

platform independent, everyone who modded minecraft will be able to mod hytale with little learning

[woeful depot]

they have an anti cheat engineer in the core team

[harsh pike]

no chance, its a multiplayer game

it must have one

[twilit phoenix]

In that case, I hope they do it server-side.

[harsh pike]

clientside is a dealbreaker for many including me

i wonder how moderation will work

[woeful depot]

yeah

[harsh pike]

im guessing something like mc, control is given to the server owners

in case of official servers im guessing a ban will be for the entire official server network

[woeful depot]

if someone is cheating is it getting a ban from the game or from official servers

[woeful depot]

they won't ban ur game compeletly right?

[scarlet spoke]

Probably Chromium Webview for UI work.
Clientside Scripting which might be synced with server probably in C#

[twilit phoenix]

In a 2019 tweet, Simon said that it won't be possible to modify the client (like in Minecraft), so scripting will probably be used to manage it.

[harsh pike]

global bans are risky because it opens a door for exploits from the server owner

artifically triggering anticheat auto-banning people that join the server

[woeful depot]

yeah that makes sense

[twilit phoenix]

Holy use of ram

[vale star]

Either that, or they expose functions in the Javascript sandbox like openWindow(x, y, width, height) so that client-side scripts can play around with the UI

[woeful depot]

I don't think server owners can cause global ban, but I am asking what happens when you cheat on official servers. are you getting a perma ban from the game?

[vale star]

The JS would call the function, and behind it it would be C# code that renders the window

[scarlet spoke]

I guess there is the game UI, with elements which can be used with C# clientside and if you want custom stuff, you need to use Webview and just use anything you can put in a browser.
Maybe also 3D Webview rendering on objects

[twilit phoenix]

I'm worried about the performance issues that could cause.

[harsh pike]

up to the devs, but i would rather have official bans stick to official servers

[scarlet spoke]

Watching YouTube ingame

[harsh pike]

especially in terms of misbehaving bans related to chat

[scarlet spoke]

Since it's an overlay, there is no performance issue with the game client itself

[harsh pike]

something not allowed on official servers might be allowed on community ones

[woeful depot]

do you think they will allow monetization fully?

[harsh pike]

hopefully, dont see why not

no monetization means little interest from potential server owners

[woeful depot]

minecraft cut hypixel's most of income with just an update

[harsh pike]

corpos dont understand players well, this is a different project by different type of company

different interests and whatnot

[vale star]

I think it's okay, V8 is fast.
Passing data between C#-land and JS-land might cost a little bit, though. but if JS is only called for specific events (button clicked on the UI, the player breaks a block, ...), it's okay

Time will tell, I guess !

[twilit phoenix]

Yeah..

[woeful depot]

all I can say is modding will be gucci. not some simple thing

[twilit phoenix]

Does anyone have any idea when the documentation might be released?

[scarlet spoke]

It's always much larger overhead when you go from one application to another.
It depends on how you display and store data.

Trying to sync data with your webview each tick isn't the best approach x)

[manic pine]

JS is fast enough for 99% of things

[fleet plover]

Hopefully at the beginning

[vale star]

JS != WebView
The UI would still be rendered in whatever technology is used to draw it in C#
It's just that UI event (clicks, ...) would be resolved JS-side

[scarlet spoke]

It's not rendered in the game

[tacit elbow]

I really hope that there is a way for the client to download mods from the server so you don't need to manually install the proper mods.

However, there must must some security safeguards as being able to remotely execute code on anyone who connects to your hytale server is a disaster waiting to happen.

While showing a list of mods is a start and asking for permission to download is a start, the server could put something malicious in a random mod. I propose that there is an official source for mods where mods are guaranteed to be safe such that they can be reviewed, and your client downloading a mod outside that prompts a warning (can be ignored, but it's important it appears)

[fleet plover]

You automatically dl them on the connection

[vast sapphire]

I guess it would be done if trust, mid signatures and reporting

[west elk]

simon tweeted in 2019 that people won't be able to install local mods at all

[vale star]

The code of the client-side mods can be sandboxed in a JS engine

[woeful depot]

yeah and possibilites with sandboxed environment are very low

[twilit phoenix]

na

[tacit elbow]

Ok, there's sandboxing that's pretty good. Glad to know it's been considered

[woeful depot]

there will be malicious mods but I'm 100% sure they will get a fix

[twilit phoenix]

That doesn't mean you can't install mods locally.

[woeful depot]

it says you don't need to modify the game itself

[scarlet spoke]

Clientside scripting will be limited, no need to be worried

[manic pine]

just the same as garrys mod really, someone might write a backdoor to spawn items or stuff like that with their shared plugin

[woeful depot]

so let's say you have an unity game and you can use loaders such as melonloader and then patch the game itself. this is some kind of external modding. hytale won't need it

[woeful depot]

that's a good point of why people should never trust closed source plugins

[scarlet spoke]

If the server architecture is well made, you shouldn't care about that.
Clients shouldn't be allowed to create synced stuff without server permission

[woeful depot]

yeah, there should be option to allow client mods or not

[scarlet spoke]

Probably in singleplayer?!

[manic pine]

well considering a plugin could be a combination of server and client, that is something to take note of

[scarlet spoke]

Somebody will do probably texture mods, but server can override it with their own

[scarlet spoke]

Coming from GTA V scripting for multiplayer servers (FiveM, alt:V, RAGE Mp) and that's how they handle it there:

You have to download stuff from the server, client loads exact plugins like everyone else. Overrides game default data on client pc for that session. (Textures, Animations, Sounds whatever)

That's how multiplayer anticheat for client modding works there.

[manic pine]

yeah thats not exactly what im talking about, imagine you download a cool plugin online for your hytale server that adds both to client and server which also has a backdoor to communicate to the server to spawn items, thats deffo a possibility and happened over and over back in garrys mod

[unreal crown]

I hope a lot can be modified and added (input, models, textures, mobs, gui, functional items & blocks…)

[scarlet spoke]

I mean, that's an issue for the server owner then if you trust anyone x)

[fringe eagle]

I know this is probably a bit late at this point but to add to the earlier anticheat discussion

[manic pine]

doesnt need to be a malicious backdoor even, just bad client-server communication can be a vulnerability

[fringe eagle]

As I've discovered on looking further into this there are some very strong indications that there will be a user-side anticheat of some sort, just unclear of what kind.

[twilit phoenix]

user-side?

[woeful depot]

user-side = don't over speed

[fringe eagle]

client-side I mean

[scarlet spoke]

Only things I can imagine for client anticheat is modifying position or velocity data. Anything else should be handle by the server-side part

[twilit phoenix]

As long as it's not at the kernel level, I won't have a problem.

[fringe eagle]

Yeah there are some concerning phrasings tbh, but it remains to be seen.

[somber atlas]

I wonder if Riot ever planned for Vanguard?

[crude hill]

@cursive sonnet

[manic pine]

ages ago i used to join gmod darkrp servers and injected some dll to read the clientside and shared scripts, there was a silly SetMoney network variable without any serverside checks that anyone could just set, i totally destroyed the servers economy by running a simple custom clientside script lmao

[scarlet spoke]

Yeah, server-side issue. So basically no anticheat clientside needed x)

[manic pine]

yeah, personally i dont think native clientside anticheat in hytale is a requirement, minecraft works well without it aswell

we just need to make devs aware of safe client-server communication

[scarlet spoke]

If there is a position check and velocity threshold serverside, that should already work

[fringe eagle]

that's what i think as well but the phrasing strongly implies there will be a native clientside anticheat

[fringe eagle]

To elaborate on what I'm talking about

[pulsar obsidian]

Well...

[final laurel]

do we have any info on what server requirements might be?

[scarlet spoke]

Sounds more like they won't allow game modifications by editing native game files

[pulsar obsidian]

Cloudflare is down 😭

[fringe eagle]

Hytale Privacy Policy, 2.0 (2025-10-10), Section 3:

We collect the following categories of personal data:
<...>
Anti-cheat and integrity signals: runtime integrity checks, suspicious process and memory signatures, device/account linkages, ban evasion signals, and enforcement history.
<...>

[lofty widget]

bro cloudflare plsssssss

[manic pine]

probably heavily depends on the player amount youre going for

[twilit phoenix]

Cloudflare couldn't handle the Hytale storyline and collapsed

[manic pine]

i mean that could totally fix lazy cheat engine users, but since the client is in C# i also think this might be very easily bypassable

[pulsar obsidian]

💔 The Poor Intern who caused this is going to get RAILED

[manic pine]

we'll see

[fringe eagle]

"suspicious process and memory signatures" though

that particular phrase is a bit worrying to me, but i guess we'll wait and see

[manic pine]

not if you manage to skip that check fully

[scarlet spoke]

Are there more things we should be concerned about clientside cheating than these?

• sending wrong position data to server (teleport)
• modifiy client velocity (speed hack)
• modify client game files to get an advantage (see through textures whatever)
• esp for player data which gets synced from the server (bone positions, wallhack)

[manic pine]

it just depends on how deeply anti cheat is integrated in the client

[twilit phoenix]

I think these are problems that will be solved over time.

[scarlet spoke]

I mean as server owner you already can prevent texture client mods by extracting default texture pack and let each client connecting to your server download and use it

Maybe that's already a default thing as anticheat feature and you can use a custom pack, if you want

[twilit phoenix]

It's a little weird to do that

[pulsar obsidian]

Wrong chat 💔

[twilit phoenix]

bruh

[scarlet spoke]

Yeah, ik. But it's kinda safe, bcs if you have a clientside checksum check, this can be blocked x)

I'd rather trust my server files than any client files

[sharp jacinth]

• collect data from unsuspecting users
• people who know how to bypass don't

Maybe it's a remnant from the RIOT days

[cursive sonnet]

Not allowed to modify the client is interesting.. logical but interesting. Either way I’m glad to see i dont need to get good at C# lol

[fringe eagle]

Probably not a remnant from Riot - I checked the privacy policy on an archive from June 2025 and those sections were not there. This looks freshly written.

or well unless you mean more so in the philosophical sense

[storm glacier]

I am wondering if this will negatively affect day 1 linux compatability

[fringe eagle]

I hope it's better than it sounds - but it remains to be seen.

[west elk]

blog post says linux and mac likely won't be day 1

[woeful depot]

dayum

[vague bronze]

If there will be problems, i am sure linux users will just fix it for their version of arch, or just use vine

[rigid nexus]

Thanks!

AYO

[fringe eagle]

If it's a particularly hostile anticheat, wine/proton will not work - though there are other means around it all.

[storm glacier]

Unless they prevent wine from working, we call that the riot classic

[vague bronze]

Indeed, but for now they position the game as an open beta, so i don't really think they will bother with anticheat, maybe...

[vale star]

I think when he says that we're not allowed to modify the client, it's that you're not allowed to directly modify it
I think we'll able to bundle a bunch of client-side scripts alongside our server-side plugins that will be downloaded when you join a server.

[rich solar]

This is probably more realistic. Anticheat will either be barebones and expanded on with time or a future endeavor.

Hopefully it’s not like Minecraft with server owners have to deal with AC only.

I foresee a similar system like Roblox could be implemented where they sandbox and encrypt the custom server/client data. Which won’t stop everyone but will at least be better than nothing. And add some okay protection against rippers

[rich solar]

This is most likely correct as client-side mods are already confirmed.

[vale star]

I've never played it, but I think it's pretty much how Roblox works

[fringe eagle]

Are they? I'm seeing conflicting claims on that

[rich solar]

From blog

What you can expect:

It's possible to mod almost everything in Hytale (content and server-side)
Non-developers can create impressive experiences with minimal technical knowledge
A few guides or videos will be enough for most people to start creating
We will provide server source code access within several months, once we're legally ready to do so
Dedicated server support and data-driven content configuration
We're being mindful of backward compatibility as we iterate
You can create your own custom servers, maps, adventures, etc
More details will be given in a future blog post

[fringe eagle]

am i like blind, i don't see where it talks about client-side

[rich solar]

It’s content delivery

[static portal]

That's not client side modding

[fringe eagle]

i don't think "content" means "client side modding", but i suppose it is ambiguous - so remains to be seen

[polar fulcrum]

Hmm

[rich solar]

No but their blog posts in the past support client side. So once they release more modding info soon we will know for sure

[static portal]

It means data will be sent to clients like recipes in Minecraft, but it can also mean code like in Roblox

[fringe eagle]

I'm greatly looking forward to seeing the blog post when they decide to fully cover how modding will actually work, as a lot of things are unclear at the moment.

[rich solar]

That’s all I’m here for 🙂

[static portal]

Same

[scarlet spoke]

Maybe also data packs and stored locally on the client pc, encrypted ofc

[static portal]

Why would it be encrypted?

[rich solar]

Content protection and custom server implementation protection would be one reason

[scarlet spoke]

Paid creators who sells it through a plattform with license system don't want that your stuff gets directly download on hundreds of PC without paying for it, when they wanna use it on their servers

[static portal]

Can you explain further how things being encrypted on the client protect the server?

[scarlet spoke]

It's not a protection for the server

[static portal]

Then they wouldn't use a server

[scarlet spoke]

More for the creators of the stuff which gets used on the server

[pulsar obsidian]

Ah, cloudflare is still down 💔

[fleet plover]

"Monitoring - A fix has been implemented and we believe the incident is now resolved. We are continuing to monitor for errors to ensure all services are back to normal."

[static portal]

Someone is definitively getting fired

[fleet plover]

Seems fine for me

[scarlet spoke]

Welcome to the world of cloud computing

[fleet plover]

I know it, most of the websites I used today were affected but since the cloudflaree announcement it seems fixed

[scarlet spoke]

Probably located in western europe then

[wintry jungle]

Hey! I started working at Cloudflare last week and today they approved my first PR, let's gooo

[tame nexus]

Submit a PR to get things working again cheers

[pulsar obsidian]

YOU DIT IT

DIDN'T YOU ???

[fleet marsh]

Anyone planning on making a stargate plugin ?

[tame nexus]

You are not in the CF Discord...

[shrewd falcon]

Pr stands for personal revenge doesnt it

[wintry jungle]

Why? They're calling me to the HR office in 5 minutes to congratulate me

[tame nexus]

good meme

[rich solar]

Hopefully server side will be Linux compatible as I want to make an egg for my server host right away. But don’t want to deal with proton/wine for it with docker

[unreal crown]

+1

[feral oyster]

Pretty sure it should be, after all server code should be in Java and it doesn’t do any rendering (so no ties to platform specific rendering backends) + it’s coming from people with experience hosting servers and everyone knows that if you can you host on Linux

[rich solar]

That’s what I was thinking… looking at you space engineers

[fluid mountain]

Imagine creating something like Spigot/Bukkit Api to code server plugins. Would be wild

[rich solar]

Native modding should allow this to not be needed 🙂

[fluid mountain]

yeah, i was joking

[feral oyster]

Also depending on if C# client uses DX or Vulkan/OpenGL it should be possible to run even the client natively on Linux too

[rich solar]

Based on their site eula we will be limited to interacting with the client itself. But they are going to try to support Linux/Mac so might not be day one but will be down the road

[feral oyster]

I didn’t mean it from modding perspective but in general… since If its DX then proton or DXVK etc would be necessary, if its VK/GL then just installing netcore runtime and maybe providing platform specific native libraries should be enough to get it running

As for serverside only modding it makes ton of sense since even singleplayer is usually just an embedded server… so its waste of time to make two mod apis for two different languages etc.

[storm glacier]

Largest hurdle for day 1 linux compatability is the client side anticheat

[rich solar]

I think the plan is native Linux/mac support. So hopefully that means extensible with ac

[storm glacier]

The runtime checks might make wine/proton unable to work

[feral oyster]

all depends on what anti-cheat measures they will have in place since generally anti-cheats can be quite invasive...

[feral oyster]

I don't think they said "Windows only" but rather "PC only" since the reason for that is that consoles and phones don't have "support" for JIT (there are restrictions about allocating memory pages marked as executable at runtime) so one has to use AOT which is always a pain with languages built around JIT (Java, C# etc.) - hence the "new engine" which was C++

[rich solar]

They will not be focusing on anything but pc for now. Cross platform will be much later. But they did say for Linux/Mac they are gonna try

[rose atlas]

If mods are able to be loaded automatically by the client, whats the point of plugins? unless maybe they can coexist.

[rich solar]

So that’s good hope for Linux only users

[rich solar]

Mods/plugins can be interwoven ambiguously. So we will see how they are gonna treat these two words once they release more info

[feral oyster]

server-side mods/plugins are one and the same, there is/will be official mod API... and clients will fetch necessary data from the server upon joining (similar to minecraft datapacks) but all the custom logic will run on the server-side and clients will just broadcast commands (like interaction) to the server.

[fringe eagle]

considering it's java i don't see any reason why it shouldn't be

unless its like hardcoded for windows lol

[sharp jacinth]

It would be a disaster if any random server could run unchecked code on your computer lol

So ofc it works like that

[rose atlas]

arent servers gonna be able to have custom content/assets?

[vague bronze]

Maybe for Ui there will be some Lua like things, or constructors

[rich solar]

Yes

[vague bronze]

I bet on constructors

[feral oyster]

I've seen sooo many platforms trying to provide "full unrestricted c# client-side scripting" it's not even nice... but yes, for security, performance, and ease of maintenance it makes sense to have just one mod-api in one place... and that is server

[vague bronze]

But that will be lame, I want more controll

[rose atlas]

i still hope this is the UI we're getting. i love it.

[feral oyster]

I consider mods and plugins the same since at the end of the day it will be a zip or jar file containing assets and logic that will get loaded ("plugged-in") by the server on startup etc...

[novel crown]

This UI is very good ngl

[rose atlas]

and a client upon joining the server, auto switches to that version... smart

so servers arent forced to stay updated.. and can work with the version they are on.

[vague bronze]

Would be nice to have platform for uploading them

[rose atlas]

the server would host them.. ur client will download them.. afaik?

[feral oyster]

they load textures, meshes etc.. i.e. visual assets and necessary metadata like custom blocks, custom UIs etc. but all the logic stays on the server

[feral oyster]

exactly, server has them locally and provides the assets for the clients joining... prime example of this would be minecraft's datapacks

as for "mod marketplace" sorta thing, iirc there's curseforge page for hytale already existing

[vague bronze]

That could be reaaaaaly nice, but by that logic, u can host with virus mods and client will download it

[rose atlas]

im pretty sure they got that stuff handled..

[rich solar]

I mean there will be protection for that. But exploits will be possible still

[feral oyster]

code/logic is server-side (in java) client will only receive structured metadata such as textures, sounds, meshes and then something like json-based metadata which describe what, where and how

[vague bronze]

Well, that why there 100 percent would be soe curseforge like platform

[vague bronze]

hmm

Sounds good

[rose atlas]

so essentially the server is gonna stream content to the client?

[feral oyster]

at least that's what the team said (server-side modding only) and my experience of 15+ years in game-dev tells me 😄

[vague bronze]

What do you think about their world chunk system?
I didn't followed news, so i can't really tell what they done with it

[feral oyster]

client will download a "datapack" from the server on joining form which client will get the textures, meshes, and knowledge about custom blocks, entities etc... and then server will tell it what to do where to spawn those entities etc... so I wouldn't say stream (as that implies ad-hoc streaming of files when neded) but yeah generally

[rose atlas]

i see, very cool!

[feral oyster]

I'd expect standard 2D grid of chunks (or 3D cubic chunks) there's nothing special about chunking itself, it's mostly world-gen that's responsible for the "zones" etc.

[rose atlas]

slightly off topic but simon said we are on step 2.. releasing the game.. 👀

[vague bronze]

Well, cubic chunks, in my opinion, can be optimised and are faster than regular 2D ones.

Plus less limits for generation itself, but will need a crazy maintance

[fringe eagle]

i think just about every channel on this server is off-topic in this primordial chaos era of this server

maybe except #blockbench 🙏

[feral oyster]

once people have something to keep them on topic (i.e. "They dropped documentation for the mod APIs..." or "they dropped hytale, let's mod") then channels will get more on-topic... but for now especially here it's pretty much chaos since all we can do is speculate at this point in time

[vague bronze]

true

[tardy zenith]

are there any servers/subreddits/forums/etc. that have a collection of resources/information regarding hytale server hosting/managing?

[rich solar]

Let’s talk about plugins that we have zero info on!

[halcyon mica]

C# is crossplatform btw

[feral oyster]

there's nothing known yet, pretty much "hytale is back"

[rose atlas]

nope. not yet. we need the official forums for that.

there was supposed to be forums, idk if they canceled that. i hope not

[unborn tangle]

Do we have a place to give suggestions for this server? Having a Simon tweet tracker channel would be cool

[rose atlas]

#showcase

[static portal]

#announcements exist

[rich solar]

The website has room for it and seems like it might be possible. I hope they don’t go discord forum route 🤓

[unborn tangle]

yeah but those don't have all of his tweets, I guess as long as all the actual content also gets uploaded there it's fine

[vague bronze]

Like soeone said there, give us API before the open test, and we could prepare

[feral oyster]

yep yep, I knjow... to be more precise it's the .net core that's cross-platform, but only Windows, Mac, Linux since consoles have limits of JIT (as I've described in other posts) and that specific message was more about rendering APIs such as DirectX (Windows only - natively... with proton/DXVK etc.. can run on linux) or Vulkan (generally multi-platform, might need MoltenVK on mac because Apple is being Apple) or OpenGL (natively supported on Windows and linux... deprecated on mac... because again... apple being apple)

[rose atlas]

My only question is how "networks" are gonna play out, its def not gonna be like MC where you need proxy and backend servers...

[scarlet spoke]

"Apple is being Apple" - Random dude in the internet, 2025

[halcyon mica]

nit: it's just ".NET" starting with 5

[rich solar]

Based on old info. Integrated hub system was a forefront of a thought. But yeah probably gonna be the same way mc is

[halcyon mica]

perhaps NativeAOT can do something about that

[feral oyster]

I'll always call it .netcore nobody's going to change my mind ever 😄 😄

[halcyon mica]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[scarlet spoke]

I mean, you are right. There are some applications out there still using 4.8 framework x)

[feral oyster]

possibly, but as Simon has said they're currently focusing on PC for now because every platform brings it's own specific problems and quirks and so it's more work to keep them all up and running

[halcyon mica]

wishing best of luck 🙏

[rich solar]

Somewhere any where has something old running. Like a school we took over for IT had 2008 servers still… doing everything… in 2025…

[halcyon mica]

hoped they went with C# for server as well

[feral oyster]

god... I wish if it was "only" 4.8... I'm still dealing with some apps using 3.5 and older... since corpos like to keep their custom millenia old software until it crashes and burns

[scarlet spoke]

As long the machine has no access to internet, keep it running

[static portal]

if it work why change?

[rich solar]

Oh you know. The fact that security updates ended many years ago, and schools are targets for malicious activities

[feral oyster]

because at a certain point it's more work to keep it up and running and more importantly secure than to switch to newer version/alternatives.... but yes... that's exactly what most casual users (and managers) like to say

[scarlet spoke]

My local car paint workshop still runs old Windows 98 PC with their mixing software on it, bcs the manufacturer of it closed the doors long ago x)

[rich solar]

This is sadly a common thing. I have several old images of proprietary software that we virtualize on new hardware so that they keep running

[fringe eagle]

rocking on that windows 98 'puter is kind of based tbh

[rich solar]

I just keep them on a local network with no external access

[rose atlas]

community servers gonna go crazy

[feral oyster]

it's not connected to the internet so it's fine... I know bunch of CNC machines and or POS systems that run things like 95 or even msdos... my aunt's accounting software is still written for msdos (and they ship things with dosbox to make it run on new versions of windows) but they all have one thing in common, they're not connected to the internet

[scarlet spoke]

I wanna nuke it already, somebody has to publish nuke mod as admin tool

[rose atlas]

i like how server ops can change player camera position and lock it.

atleast that's what this is implying

[edgy kernel]

I’m curious how plugin / server modding is gonna go tbh.

Like, will it work similarly to Minecraft in which plugins don’t need to be on the client, but (some) mods need to be, or will Hytale auto download the necessary mods? IDK just thinking LMAO

if anyone has an idea it’d be cool to know 😂

[west elk]

Mods won't be possible on the client, everything is provided by the server

[rich solar]

The final suite for all type of content and creative outlits is gonna be great.

[twilit phoenix]

This

[rose atlas]

So the way that its gonna work is that servers are gonna have mods/plugins, essentialy each server is gonna have its own version of the game, and when u connect, your client, will automatically downlaod all the assets/content the server has.

gone are the days where you need to install each mod yourself afaik

[quick kelp]

so gmod custom servers then?

[plush torrent]

Agreed thats my understanding too from what ive read

[west elk]

basically yeah

[quick kelp]

neato

[rose atlas]

which is gonna enable so many creative minds

[vague bronze]

RTS like regin of nether would be funny

But difenetly, first thing I would like to see is some parasite mod

[plush torrent]

Wait RTS could actually go crazy your right lol

[rose atlas]

Fully fledged Zombies server with this type of environment 🔥

[scarlet spoke]

Zombies? Dinosaurs? Zombie Dinosaurs!

[vale star]

Yeah
It's part of "clients will fetch necessary data"
They will fetch additional textures, models, ...

[rose atlas]

zombified dinos :O

[vague bronze]

zombie dino that can fly

[scarlet spoke]

Hmmmm, dinofied Zombies?!

[vague bronze]

zombie dragon?

[rose atlas]

fear

[hidden glade]

Client side scripting

[twilit phoenix]

Do you want to traumatize an entire server?

[rose atlas]

that would be terrifying to see

[vague bronze]

As a GM I can say, I give most hardship to the one I love most

:3

Actually, would be interesting how there will work that moment, when u want cut your project to other modules so they will have dependency, or writing own library for other own mods

[static portal]

:3

[stone stratus]

:3

[rose atlas]

we need an "essentials" plugin for hytale servers XD

[vague bronze]

It's literally hytale is

[main moon]

Wouldn't Hytale have an essentails already?

[rose atlas]

true

[main moon]

I think we can get straight into building, like for example minigames like bedwars

[rose atlas]

i hope so!

[main moon]

They said those minigames will not be there at start

[remote vine]

#SimonHireGolderite

[edgy kernel]

beautiful. source engine level work, love that.

[rose atlas]

each server will essentially be its own vision which is cool

[vague bronze]

Simon need hire Sam Hide (jokes on me, but that could be best piar manager)

[rich solar]

My whole goal for this system once more info is given is building out a full custom experience. Things like spigot plugins and things like forge/fabric mods interwoven for custom server features. I think the first project of mine is going to be a coreprotect like system with block tracking/change tracking

[rose atlas]

i think with us being able to load actual mods - i dont see a reason for "plugins" xD but idk.

[rich solar]

Once again I think its a bit ambigious for plugins/mods because plugins are mods. Modifications.

[agile escarp]

What IDE are you using for java nowadays? I left for C# 15 years ago... something from jetbrains?

[near raptor]

IntelliJ

[rich solar]

I use IntelliJ

[white crest]

VSCode

Require some tweak maybe but still my favorite IDE

[twilit phoenix]

Not for Java, right?

[white crest]

Java is perfectly integrated

[agile escarp]

VSCode is more an editor no?

[twilit phoenix]

it is

[near raptor]

Java can work in VSCode but it is a meh experience imo

[twilit phoenix]

I've never actually tried using Java in VS Code, I should give it a try.

[white crest]

I also made a mod in MC with VScode

[rich solar]

Time for netbeans

[white crest]

It can require tweaking but it's the most reliable.
I hate IntelliJ and it's indexing loading time !

[rose atlas]

they said that normal people can create experiences without needing to know how to code that much

[white crest]

That why I think Java will not be the modding API

Java VS "normal people can mod"

[plush torrent]

IntelliJ gang

[twilit phoenix]

Maybe with kotlin?

[plush torrent]

I love vscode for anything non jvm but intelliJ is unmatched for java IMO

[white crest]

vomit in the back

YEAH Kotlin, why not !

[plush torrent]

Put respect on kotlins name

[agile escarp]

It's prob still advantageous if you know how to code, especially for advanced stuff

[rose atlas]

me putting that $100 founder edition on credit card 🔥

[plush torrent]

Anyone who uses java who doesnt like kotlin just hasnt used it

[white crest]

Kotlin is never used in tech company.
10 years of Java programming never use Kotlin :/

[plush torrent]

Ive used kotlin in both tech companies ive worked at

I think a lot of them are slowly shifting over since its all JVM

tbf one was a startup though

[white crest]

What Kotlin (except syntax) bring on ?

[vague bronze]

notepad++

[plush torrent]

Kotlins just python’ified java, easier syntax, more out of the box functions

[twilit phoenix]

mental stability(?

[rough dove]

fixes a certain billion dollar mistake

[plush torrent]

Its just better dev experience

[agile escarp]

Does java have something like linq/pipe&filter yet? Pattern matching?

[white crest]

Even if I like python and much simpler language.
I don't think it's fit for "minimal technical knowledge"

[chrome zenith]

Yes, it's very good, the programming experience is different.

[rough dove]

not linq, but streams are old, and switch pattern matching was introduced in 21

[white crest]

Yes with Stream (java 8), pattern matching added in java 21

[plush torrent]

My interpretation of their “minimal technical knowledge” is they’ll have some tooling to do basic moding stuff

[twilit phoenix]

stream api?

[white crest]

Node-based coding 🙃

[chrome zenith]

Perhaps like the datapacks on M (I don't know if I can use that name here)

[rough dove]

modern Java is slowly catching up and copying Kotlin's features

[plush torrent]

Im sure you could say minecraft

[agile escarp]

Yes, that's what i mean. I can work with that then, assuming ht supports those versions 😅

[plush torrent]

If not take me away

[chrome zenith]

Good haha

[white crest]

Yes, Java even have a "var" keyword (val equivalent)

[rough dove]

var exists in Kotlin for mutable variables

[plush torrent]

Tbf i havent used recent java versions in a while and have heard its gotten a lot better but yeah i dont know kotlin just be “better java” in my eyes

Plus i do some android development for work too which is now primarily kotlin based

Still love java though

[twilit phoenix]

I think Hytale will use Java 8 (I'm just guessing based on the dates), so it will be possible.

[agile escarp]

Is Scala still a thing? 😁

[rose atlas]

scala?

[plush torrent]

Might as well be php

[rough dove]

I think it's still the most popular FP language

[twilit phoenix]

what's that?

[chrome zenith]

Yes, I would say Java is better for programming. The Kotlin API is also amazing; you don't waste time with things that are already implemented.

[static portal]

yes, i never saw it used but it still exist

[agile escarp]

~Was~ is a language trying to adress the shortcomings of java, also compiles to the jvm

[rough dove]

Kotlin is the ~successor to Scala

Scala has long compile times and sbt is awful

[twilit phoenix]

It looks like Python

[rough dove]

they added Python like indentation syntax in Scala 3, optional braces

[agile escarp]

Good oportunity to brush up on these things, get out of the .net bubble

[twilit phoenix]

Why do such a disgusting thing?

[thorn grove]

The .NET bubble is safe, and secure. Why would you ever want to leave? 😁

[agile escarp]

Adventure mode

[rough dove]

there's a rift of projects being stuck in Scala 2 and some making the move to 3

[agile escarp]

copying python in more than one way it seems

[twilit phoenix]

It looks like Python for jvm

[rose atlas]

so what plugins are yall gonna be making / looking forwards to see?

[twilit phoenix]

burn kweebec -> charcoal

[silent orchid]

I'm probably gonna make some SCP style mods

Roleplay Community gotta be crazy

[rose atlas]

can u make them a tleast in hytale style so they arent completely out of place

[silent orchid]

OFCOURSE

[rose atlas]

u bet RP community is gonna take off

[red jasper]

REVIVIMOS CARAJOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[silent orchid]

Like blocky style all the way

[twilit phoenix]

canal equivocado

[red jasper]

perdon

[twilit phoenix]

xd

[red jasper]

gaaaaaaaaaaaa

[agile escarp]

jaja, todo habla espaqui

[twilit phoenix]

A UHC in Hytale would be great

[rose atlas]

Gonna see a bunch of RP servers soon

[silent orchid]

OH RIGHT
Also Hunger Games
I'm looking at you BastiGHG

[agile escarp]

i'll probably try to do a simple story / quest based thing

[rose atlas]

i wanna relive this

[solid tundra]

Could someone please tell me whether there is an API available for mod/add-on developers?

[rose atlas]

let's recreate this please

[nimble hare]

some people will make a plugin/mod to support Kotlin ?

[twilit phoenix]

yeah

[runic kestrel]

kotlin directly compiles into JVM bytecode, should work out of the box?

[nimble hare]

nice, i learn Kotlin at school ! With that i can try do something.

[rose atlas]

YOU KNOW WHAT I WANNA SEE? A HIDE N SEEK SERVER!

[nimble hare]

not totally, at least with MC Java, you need an intermediate

[twilit phoenix]

It's probably the same in Hytale.

[nimble hare]

i think it's due to the dependence

[halcyon widget]

my home

[dusty temple]

like prop hunt?

[rose atlas]

oh.. yeah prop hunt!

[dusty temple]

i mean that should be easy to mod on code level, the biggest difficulty is the dedicated maps and their spec layouts that takes the most effort.

[torpid lance]

Guys can we have a plugin that just plays the metal pipe sound effect every time someone joins a server thanks

[rose atlas]

that would actually be possible but would get annoying fast lmao

[scarlet spoke]

Already done, just waiting for the sound API docs

[dusty temple]

is there any API doc available?

[torpid lance]

I can't send gifs for some reason but just pretend this message is the smiling Friends Mr Boss dapping up Pim gif

[torpid lance]

There ain't even game available what do you mean is there API docs 😭

[twilit phoenix]

ok

[pure panther]

He from the future be nice smh

[static portal]

likely to be the case but we can't know util it open

[dusty temple]

who knows what early is 😄

[pure panther]

They will probably release it soon

We will probably get the alpha or beta release I forget which one it is within the next few months or less

[static portal]

not really a release but yes that what they said

[pure panther]

I ment the API not the game

[nimble hare]

i think it will be release with the first game release, so we can dev and test, instead of dev blind

[static portal]

same thing, the API is expected to change a lot so its not really a release and more a dev build

[agile escarp]

I see it as a sandbox / training ground to get my hands dirty and gain experience. Learn the tools, etc.

[torpid lance]

Guys I have the alpha 100% real (GONE WILD) (9/10 Riot employees HATE this method)

(this is the only channel I can seemingly post images in for some reason)

[scarlet spoke]

Probably bcs nobody tried it. Now they will prohibite it, thanks

[lunar swan]

How'd you get it lol ?

[torpid lance]

My dad's uncle's boyfriend's sons cats mother in law works at Riot

[nimble hare]

at bottom i can see 2021 so i don't really trust that image

[torpid lance]

She gave me a link to softonic that had a download for the latest alpha that includes the new unannounced mob, hairless chickens

[lunar swan]

Alright, but the menu screen seems legit nonetheless.

[torpid lance]

This is because it's the OG engine they forgot to update that string to say 2025 it's definitely real

[lunar swan]

Can you play it?

[torpid lance]

When I booted up the game it actually gave me a popup that says Simon has my IP and will bomb my house if I share anything beyond the title screen trust me

[magic coyote]

no way

[scarlet spoke]

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln

[gleaming pecan]

with a pipe bomb or a missle?

[rose atlas]

that screen is fake btw

[torpid lance]

Puffle? Like club penguin puffle?

[ebon sundial]

Nuke

[torpid lance]

Dude, yes, I knew I liked you

[gleaming pecan]

Yes.... look at my username as well :)

[torpid lance]

My series 0 red blue and green puffle plushies are chilling on my bed 😎

[gleaming pecan]

:o

theres a server that is exclusively about club penguin merch

you might like it

[ebon sundial]

just change your nickname and we'll see

[torpid lance]

I actually can't because you have to go into settings to do that and that's past the title screen

Hypixel devs can totally back me up definitely

Just don't ping them or dm them or anything

[ebon sundial]

well you don't need to share settings screen, so basicaly you are safe, if you just quickly change your nickname

[torpid lance]

Simon actually just stopped by my house he said I cant change the nickname yet actually yeah

You just missed him he's a really chill guy but he was like "please don't change the nickname or share any more totally real screenshots"

[gleaming pecan]

simon has him in a chokehold

[torpid lance]

I even offered to buy hytale from him for $12 I had in my wallet so I could share more screenshots but he said no

He said Microsoft offered him $13 so he's thinking about that one first

[agile escarp]

can we ban these clowns?

[torpid lance]

Alright alright I'll stop haha

Tbh I didn't expect this bit to go on as long as it did

The image came from a tweet from a hytale YouTuber, apparently it's an old screen cap from an old YouTube ad for the game

I wonder if we'll get a server akin to 2B2T

[ivory kindle]

2B2T typer server would be so unbelievably fun at the start before people start sweating the combat to death

[edgy kernel]

i think it's almost bound to happen, that anarchy itch has to be scratched

[main moon]

Probably, but cheating wont be a thing since clientside mods are prohibited

[edgy kernel]

you doubt cheaters brother

they will reverse engineer the client in days & have a modded client within a week

[main moon]

No I don't, but I this time the anticheat will be handeled by the Hytale team

[gleaming pecan]

brother, they dont have access to vangaurd anymore

[torpid lance]

That's a good thing tbh

[edgy kernel]

which is definitely bound to be good, but i doubt they can facilitate all of the modding features without a few loopholes

[main moon]

They will still have an anticheat right?

[edgy kernel]

thank god, linux compat is a must

[gleaming pecan]

your not wrong but its just gonna take a long time

[dawn spire]

right... clientside modifications being prohibited always held back cheaters...

[gleaming pecan]

yeah i really want to play on my steam deck

[main moon]

Never said that

[edgy kernel]

at some point, most likely, but i DOUBT that on launch

[edgy kernel]

LMAOOOO

[main moon]

Yeah maybe, I really hope they do, maybe they are allowed to use it?

[gleaming pecan]

and steam machines if priced well may be a factor for linux

[edgy kernel]

they won't have access to Vanguard, they'll have to use their own anticheat

i also highly-doubt Vanguard would even be comaptible with the legacy client

[dawn spire]

too sad they dont stick to the c++ engine

[edgy kernel]

i'd rather them stray from the C++ engine, i personally am an avid bedrock hater

[main moon]

The reason I think 2b2t is a success is because Minecraft doesn't do anything against cheaters, its up to the server to decide, but in Hytale its very strict, so a server like 2b2t on Hytale is like a honeypot for the anticheat team/mods

[gleaming pecan]

i wish riot had like a 5% stake still so we can get LoL cosmetics and other stuff

[main moon]

Oh right, maybe its not even C# compatible

[gleaming pecan]

but not enough where they are still beholden to them

[gleaming karma]

rather have mostly free cosmetics instead of a ingame store

[gleaming karma]

you can get them with mods though if the community makes something

[dawn spire]

but like where does it state that clientside modifications are prohibited?

[edgy kernel]

yes & no, Hytale is giving server operators their own creative freedom over their servers, so aslong as it's not something that strictly affects Hytale i doubt they'll step in

[gleaming pecan]

true, i dont know if they would be global tho

[dawn spire]

seems like modding is allowed (client and server sided)

[gleaming karma]

why not

[edgy kernel]

like if a hacker were to target Hytale auth servers, then they'd step in, but if it's a client side hack client used for a server that ALLOWS cheating, itll be fine

[main moon]

I think they are talking about the server in this case, the server can edit content and server-side

[gleaming pecan]

copyright :/ im sure riot would be kind enough to let them use it but you never know they might not

[near raptor]

Hm, this can be interpreted in two ways though. e.g. "you can modify content from the server-side"

[dawn spire]

how tf would you modify game files from a server

[near raptor]

The client could download the content from the server, as the server could dictate it. Similar to Minecraft datapacks

[dawn spire]

resourcepacks arent new content

[near raptor]

Resourcepacks in Minecraft != Hytale (server-side) mods

[gleaming karma]

true, but yeah you can make it client sided if you make it yourself

[main moon]

You download the content before joining a server, there is a blogpost about that

[edgy kernel]

i'm like 99% sure they're gonna allow both Server & Client side modding, not everyone wants to ONLY play mods on a server lmao