#homebrew

1 messages · Page 45 of 1

flint marsh
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it's simply not what the game is or does

stuck raptor
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does not mean you can or must go ham

flint marsh
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it's built for fairly balanced high fantasy play

dire dirge
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well it aint gritty realism or grimdark meatgrinding either

stuck raptor
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fb is an outlier for the simple fact its iconic

flint marsh
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that's true

faint sonnet
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I also want to say that weapon masteries make same-weapon TWF worse with Longswords.

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Sap doesn't stack, after all.

void jewel
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I agree with Dave's rewrite

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Adds a meaningful amount of damage, fulfills the fantasy to a good degree

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Rolling both dice is the solution here

flint marsh
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and it doesn't step on gwm, because at the same time you're also making more attacks

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(because presmuably you'll still be taking DW/TWF)

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so you're making 2 more attacks per turn than the gwm person, and one of those attacks will do extra damage

dire dirge
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i just want to wield two rules as written longswords

flint marsh
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  • adding extra damage on every attack
dire dirge
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how?

flint marsh
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... you said making simultaneous attacks more than once a turn

faint sonnet
dire dirge
flint marsh
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check it out;
Twin Blade Fighting
+1 Strength
When you take the attack action while wielding two one-handed weapons, you may make an attack as a bonus action at advantage. if both dice hit, roll the damage dice from both of your held weapons to the damage roll

dire dirge
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twin blades are a different thing

flint marsh
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honestly I don't care if a youtuber thinks something cool like two weapon fighting isn't cool

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it's not different because I just made it up

faint sonnet
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In all honesty, though, I don't think it's bad to make a homebrew feat that enables TWF with two non-Light weapons. I just think that you gotta dig a bit deeper to think of what it would do that's more exciting.

flint marsh
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yeah. do something novel instead of just supercharging something to be way more potent than other options

dire dirge
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well im not good at providing statistics that show my change would make a negligable amount of difference

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because it is.

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negligable.

faint sonnet
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Then just homebrew Dual Wielder back to doing that, maybe.

tacit leaf
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I haven't read the whole discussion, but would a feat that allows you to add the Light property and/or Nick mastery to non-heavy or two-handed weapons achieve what you're looking for?

TWF has always been a blindspot of mine tho so maybe that's horrendous

flint marsh
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though if the weapons aren't light then there's no mechanic in 5e to allow the other attacks

dire dirge
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not adding the nick mastery

flint marsh
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I suppose if you're just looking for two long swords you don't have to be as fast as two short swords

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the twin blade fighting thing is a good compromise. you aren't getting all the extra attacks that light/nick give you

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because you aren't wielding light weapons

dire dirge
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and you wouldnt benefit from nick with my feat either

flint marsh
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you get to make one extra attack and it even does more damage if you meet the conditions

dire dirge
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as the feat only says they're light during the attack

flint marsh
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so you won't get the bonus actiona ttack then

tacit leaf
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I think, if you're spending a feat to attain this, moving from effectively d6s to d8s with nothing changing is fair. As in, dual wielding longsword the exact same way you would shortswords.

Its only an increase of 1 damage per attack on average, no? GWM and other feats have much larger increases

flint marsh
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(since the bonus action is after the attack action and they are no longer light, so no longer elligible)

dire dirge
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then ill change it to during combat

flint marsh
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all attacks are during combat. so .. they will be getting light as a property

faint sonnet
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Constructively, I'm just struggling to see the creative process behind this. It seems to me that it's too much on-the-nose in a way that is hard to engage with.

flint marsh
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you've decided that balance isn't really your aim, and that's fine

dire dirge
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yes but longswords dont come from nick

flint marsh
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just do the thing you want to do

dire dirge
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with*

flint marsh
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correct there's no nick

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but if you make them light, then they will get a bonus action attack

dire dirge
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and the only way to add masteries is play fighter

faint sonnet
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Fighter can't add masteries, though it can get masteries like the other martials.

flint marsh
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fighter can replace properties but only with push, sap, or slow.

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they cannot add nick

dire dirge
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yes and then they will be back in line with 2014.
which would just be undoing a step backwards to an already underpowers style of play

flint marsh
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twf isn't underpowered

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despite what youtube says

dire dirge
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yes it is.

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you have to pay 2 feat taxes just to undo restrictions

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exceptions to exceptions

faint sonnet
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The thing is, TWF is more powerful now than before, with the caveat that you don't like how TWF is now.

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I'm a TWF glazer myself who hated how it was in 5.14.

dire dirge
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TWF is more powerful.
dual wielder isnt.

twilit vigil
tacit leaf
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I like how TWF is in 2024, I didn't know people had issues with it. Is the perceived problem with how you can no longer "effectively" dual wield non-light weapons, which the old dual wielder I guess enabled?

faint sonnet
tacit leaf
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Sorry I'm only like half-sure what we're talking about if I'm being honest.

faint sonnet
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Don't get me wrong, I feel the pain, but from trying to figure it out myself, TWF is a really intricate mess of gears that is not super easy to fix.

flint marsh
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level 5 fighter with two short swords, two weapon fighting and dual wielder:
attack 1: 1d6+str mod
attack 2: 1d6+ str mod
nick attack: 1d6+ str mod
bonus action attack: 1d6+str mod

level 5 fighter with greatsword, Great Weapon Fighting, and Great Weapon Master:
attack 1: 2d6+str mod+prof bonus
attack 2: 2d6+str mod+prof bonus

bonus action attack might happen if you kill something/crit

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so assuming everything hits; the TWF gets 4d6+4xStr Mod. the GWM fighter gets 4d6+2xstr mod+2xprof mod

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if we're talking 16 str then the damage is identical, but the TWF gets to benefit four times from magic weapons, while the GWM gets twice

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if they're 18 strength, the TWF does edge out the GWM damage by 2

dire dirge
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by 2

flint marsh
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okay, should the giant weapons do less damage than two smaller weapons?

dire dirge
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i think that the giant weapons should do even more damage, and the two weapons shouldnt have exceptions on exceptions

flint marsh
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and if so, how would you change great weapon master to make it do more damage than TWF?

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and then when GWM does more damage, would you then bump up TWF again?

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ultimately it seems like you want TWF to do more damage than GWM

dire dirge
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execution
if the damage from an eligable weapon would reduce an enemy to belowthe threshold,

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they die.

tacit leaf
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Does the TWF add their mod to the dual wielder BA attack? I thought the feat calls it out, unless TWF fighting style mitigates that

faint sonnet
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This is one of those times where I'm going to put out there that one should work backwards with understanding TWF (more specifically, understanding why a developer did what they did.)

flint marsh
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the nick attack is also an attack you get as a result of the light property, it is just moved as to where it is made in the action economy

dire dirge
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and you misunderstand, i dont want twf to outdamage everyone, i want twf to have no arbitrary restrictions at a certain point of a character build

flint marsh
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there aren't arbitrary restrictions

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there's balance restrictions based on the size of the weapon

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arbitrary would be like "you can't dual wield clubs"

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this is a balance restriction

dire dirge
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you dont add your mods to the second attack (unless you have the fighting style)
you can only use light weapons (unless you have the feat, and one of them still has to be.)

flint marsh
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and, as Tamms said, you can fight with two longswords, you just won't be as fast/making as many attacks as someone with two short swords

dire dirge
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you have to spend a bonus action (unless you have nick)

faint sonnet
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None of those are arbitrary.

dire dirge
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they are exceptions with exceptions.

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thats nonsense

flint marsh
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well best of luck

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you seem to have a different understanding of how words work than most

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and that's okay, every table is different

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I don't know how to balance something you want to be unbalanced

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so go with your gut and have fun

faint sonnet
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I don't mean that to be rude or anything.

flint marsh
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also; if you aren't looking for feedback, just say that! it's fine to just post something you did that you enjoy

faint sonnet
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I'm saying that assuming that someone who is a professional who creates content in an industry knows worse than someone who is solely involved in consuming said content in the industry is worthwhile to try to unpack.

dire dirge
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im looking for feedback
what im not looking for is to be told to throw the whole thing in the garbage.
I can see how it doesnt work, what i want to know is how to make it work.

flint marsh
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I didn't say throw it in the garbage, and you were offered ways to make it work

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you didn't like them, and that's fine

faint sonnet
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My honest feedback is that it's too much of a runaround when you could just state it to do what you want it to do.

dire dirge
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thing is i did that before

sullen echo
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Can I post a code block here so it's alot of text but compressed and scrollable?

dire dirge
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and i was told how the wordings could be abused

flint marsh
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well if they could be abused then that isn't incorrect

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being given feedback when you ask for feedback is generally the transaction that occurs

dire dirge
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which is why i worded it the way i did now

flint marsh
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it won't always line up with what you expect

faint sonnet
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It's highly unlikely something will ever exist that does that, unless it's meant to fulfill the same design space as what you are making now.

dire dirge
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yeah but it feels like im asking how to make my windows install run better and am just being told to install linux

flint marsh
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let me rephrase my previous question

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a: do you want this two longsword fighter to be making as many attacks as a two dagger fighter (with the feat and fighting style for both)

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so as an example at level five, do you want to be making four attacks

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three in the attack action and one in the bonus action

dire dirge
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two rolls per attack, no bonus action attack, no nick.

faint sonnet
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The fact that you're competing against an existing build of a different style within the same mechanical space is difficult, too.

dire dirge
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as in they then cannot use their bonus action for an attack at all

flint marsh
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okay

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so GREAT news

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you can do that right now

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with no feats

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that's actually the cool thing about 5e is that taking the attack action doesn't require you to only use one weapon

dire dirge
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do not say use extra attack with one longsword each.

flint marsh
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so you can attack with your left hand weapon and then your right hand weapon

stuck raptor
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its two attacks. with no ba attack

flint marsh
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so what you can do is use the feat to focus on what your actual aim is

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you want to do hella damage

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right?

dire dirge
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i want to roll two longswords per attack, then do something else for the BA

faint sonnet
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I do have to say that it's a bit confusing that you are trying to interface with Light when you could just make this be an entire new branch of fighting style stuff.

stuck raptor
flint marsh
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okay - so what you're looking for, is two attacks per attack

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am I correct in that?

dire dirge
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two rolls, for a weapon each, on each attack action

stuck raptor
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so, 4 attacks per action?

flint marsh
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worded like that, you're implying advantage

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each attack action, you roll twice for a weapon

faint sonnet
stuck raptor
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or is this just two attacks, but double the die

flint marsh
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if it's four attacks, I'm afraid that is way bigger than a feat

tacit leaf
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I think there's a mechanic for firearms that does something similar in a third party book. Split your attacks into two, but you lose the modifier.

flint marsh
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even if you were just doing it with light weapons haha

dire dirge
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combat:
fighter: left sword right sword
fighter: extra attack, left sword right sword
fighter: bonus action, idk second wind
no nick what so ever

flint marsh
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okay so it is doubling the number of attacks

dire dirge
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as what nick does

flint marsh
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well just say that and call it a day

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it won't be balanced

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but you aren't concerned about that here

faint sonnet
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Like, there's significant concerns with your idea otherwise.

tacit leaf
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nvm, it was this, which I have no idea whether or not is balanced.

Automatic
When you make an attack with this weapon, you can choose to make two attacks instead. These attacks are always made with Disadvantage, regardless of circumstance. You can’t replace these attacks.

stuck raptor
flint marsh
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basically doubling the damage your sword gets yeah

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paladins get that, at level 11!

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(for one handed weapons)

dire dirge
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yeah
as part of their class

flint marsh
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(it is a little less than double damage for larger weapons)

dire dirge
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not as an asi feat

faint sonnet
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If it's just "do 2d8 per hit instead of 1d8", then go nuts.

flint marsh
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let me tell you

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if I had a feat I could take that would double my damage

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every single martial character would take it

faint sonnet
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If it's "this counts as two hits", we gotta talk.

dire dirge
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well devils advocate, what would be the consequences of 4 total hits between two attacks

stuck raptor
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damage and hit riders

tacit leaf
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It would double your damage unless you impose some sort of drawback or modifiction to damage calculation

dire dirge
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thats what the 1d6 penalty was for

flint marsh
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I definitely am going to work on a clean version of the suggestion I made, it's rad as hell

dire dirge
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ok let me just actually finish this edit now that i have my attention undivided

faint sonnet
dire dirge
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again im not frustrated about the feedback, im frustrated that im hearing responses to something i didnt say is the thing

tacit leaf
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you could split attacks with the trade-off you lose the modifier on both? But that is much better than attacking twice at 16 strength, then worse once you hit 18 strength. I don't see a way you could cleanly balance it on a numbers-level

faint sonnet
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My direct feedback would be to entirely separate your thought-process from this being "Dual Wielding", to be honest.

dire dirge
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but its the change i hate the most in this 2024 revision

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so much

faint sonnet
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I'm gonna be real with you, as a TWF glazer, TWF absolutely sucked.

flint marsh
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it's so much better now

dire dirge
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its like the monkey's paw, curled up its fingers, and proceeded to give me a black eye, personally

stuck raptor
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this seems like a wide swing and overreaction

faint sonnet
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Sure, you could dual wield two longswords, but it sucked and it always would suck.

stuck raptor
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yeah, 2014 twf was geninely ass

dire dirge
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a pure light weapon build definitely eats gluttonously in this edition

faint sonnet
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You had zero capacity to ever stand up to GWM, or SS, or PAM.

tacit leaf
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I never TWF'd in 2014 and half my 2024 characters do, that's how big the difference is lol

dire dirge
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let me put it this way,
has anyone seen demon slayer

faint sonnet
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What you hate is specifically that your fantasy was lost, because the strength was never there.

sullen echo
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Yeah

dire dirge
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ok,

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inosuke.

stuck raptor
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what does he have to do with dnd

dire dirge
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i want to give people the ability to create inosuke

sullen echo
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Ohhhhh.

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Makes sense

faint sonnet
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(Honestly, with the fact that he smashed out material from his swords, they probably would be light lol)

sullen echo
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Chaotic good character with physical attributes that normal humans woulden't have

stuck raptor
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he seems to be more an action surging, samurai to me honestly

sullen echo
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Anyone experienced with homebrew poisons here and has some time to skim through a list real quick?

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I have a list of some I found but im not the best at balancing

dire dirge
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but he dual wields, and idk about you but if those katanas were supposed to be short swords, they would have been called wakazashi

stuck raptor
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and fighters also get multiple attacks

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no way hes below level 11 imo anyway

dire dirge
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if you're going to tell me to use my left hand for an extra attack, with the same mechanical impact as literally just attacking with the same hand but a different weapon twice,
imma figuratively rip on a necklass of fireballs like a beyblade

faint sonnet
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I do gotta say, I think you're making this harder on yourself because you're trying to take an avenue that is likely not going to work.

sullen echo
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Im so lost, what is trying to be done here?

faint sonnet
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It's not that your idea can't exist, it's that you're trying to fit a couch through a window closest to the car when there's a door just a bit away.

stuck raptor
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your alternative just seems like a wild overreaction

dire dirge
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sure
but theres a feat contest going on
and im pretty sure that remotely balanced is one of the judging criteria

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so i have to make sure this fits my vision but doesnt break the game

flint marsh
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I think maybe it's less of a contest than you think

sullen echo
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Maybe just make a reguler character then reflavor stuff?

rustic finch
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Bruv u can send pics her

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Here

faint sonnet
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From a reader perspective, if someone presents me with an idea about dual wielding that doesn't work at all with how the game presents dual wielding, I'm gonna be a bit offput.

sullen echo
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Make a a pair of katanas that were broken to the size of around daggers

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Perhaps

rustic finch
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What the craziest homebrew weapon you have heard of our seen?

dire dirge
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let me edit this, and instead of a link, i'll post the whole text.

faint sonnet
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If someone provides a framing for a new thing, we're in business.

sullen echo
rustic finch
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Wha

flint marsh
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then this isn't the right channel for it haha

sullen echo
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It was literally so aligned with the rules that the DM coulden't even argue

faint sonnet
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Hence, I think your primary issue is that you are trying to make this be dual wielding, despite saying you don't want it to interact with dual-wielding at all, really.

rustic finch
dire dirge
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i never said that

sullen echo
dire dirge
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like did you even click mylink tamms? respectfully?

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i want it to upgrade dual wielding

rustic finch
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A barbarian class but only because it's the closest to berserker

rustic finch
stuck raptor
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im failing to see how thats dual wielding anyway

faint sonnet
sullen echo
dire dirge
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forgotten realms equivalent of the bigman upstairs i guess, let mehead to a different channel so i can finish editing this feat, and provide entire context.

faint sonnet
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"Two rolls per attack, no Bonus Action attack, no Nick."
"I want to roll two Longswords per attack, then do something else for the BA."
"Fighter: left sword, right sword
Fighter: Extra Attack, left sword, right sword
Fighter: Bonus Action, idk Second Wind
No Nick whatsoever."

If someone gives me the above context that they don't want to get a Bonus Action attack from using two weapons, including Nick (and seemingly Dual Wielder?), I think the best way to resolve this in a way that they prefer would be to make it where they aren't trying to interface with Light at all and instead they are providing a different pathway for using weapons that isn't the traditional dual wielding.

flint marsh
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alright - I'm cookin.
Tamms, check this out
Fighing Style: Oversized Two Weapon Fighting

When you take the attack action while wielding a one-handed weapon in each hand, you may make an additional attack as a bonus action. When his bonus action attack deals damage, roll the damage die an additional time. This attack may not benefit from any masteries.

rustic finch
sullen echo
rustic finch
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Fr tho he's pretty cool

sullen echo
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big hammer

flint marsh
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I don't watch anime but

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sounds good!

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actually it's too good for a fighting style. hm

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I'll add an ASI and work it into a feat

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Feat: Oversized Two Weapon Fighting

+1 Strength

When you take the attack action while wielding a one-handed weapon in each hand, you may make an additional attack as a bonus action. When his bonus action attack deals damage, roll the damage die an additional time. This attack may not benefit from any masteries.

When you are wielding a one handed weapon in each hand, the first opportunity attack you make in a round does not use your Reaction.

faint sonnet
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I do gotta say that I find it comedic that Dual Wielder's update actually made combat with it more realistic.

flint marsh
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while also making dual wielding more fun

faint sonnet
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There's definitely a lot more freedom when it comes to throwing stuff, admittedly.

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It's just that the light off-hand weapon/heavier main-hand weapon combo was the primary way to do it.

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I will also say that I understand the difficulty of trying to make non-Light TWF work, because masteries make it infinitely more "complicated" in terms of build-aspects.

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TWF feels like it gets bullied, but when you consider how many benefits there are for multiple attacks, being able to slot in an extra attack and forgoing a higher damage dice can easily be worth it, even without the Dual Wielder feat.

flint marsh
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especially with how easy it is to make each of them hit as hard as a greatsword

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(hex, HM being available from level one via a number of ways)

true forge
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idk whats happening lol

flint marsh
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that's okay, you can hang out still

true forge
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i see people talking about duel welding tho (which is very eh as we have it now imo but :P)

faint sonnet
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If you always add your mod as well, it's also easy for your mod and those on-hit bonuses to easily overcome that more standard damage.

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Normally costing your BA isn't a huge concern, either, as you get to make another attack.

flint marsh
true forge
flint marsh
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ah then I disagree lmao

true forge
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like, dont get me wrong, its cool to attack with 2 weapons

flint marsh
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it's rad and good and potent

true forge
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but i feel like it has no sauce

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at least in 2014

faint sonnet
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That I'll agree with, ya.

true forge
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2024 weapon masteries make dual welding so much better

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Nick, Vex, Push, even Sap, all good with dual welding

void jewel
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Spells thoughts balance wise?

Runic Ward
1st level abjuration
V,S
Concentration, up to 1 minute.
60 feet

You conjure a protective ward of magical energy in a 20-foot cube within range. Creatures within the cube gain the benefits of half cover.

dire dirge
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ok, so,

true forge
dire dirge
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``Prerequisite: Dual Wielder, Strength or Dexterity 15+

You gain the following benefits.
Ability Score Increase. Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.

Superior Dual Wielding. During combat, you can treat Melee weapons that lack the Light and Two-Handed properties as if it has the Light property.

Crossing Swings. When you make the extra attack of the Light property with these weapons, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action at a penalty of 2d6 to hit. For the rest of your turn, you cannot use your bonus action to make an extra attack of the Light property.

Twinned Touch Training. At level 8, If you also have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can choose an additional eligible feat.``

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now with the full, unabridged context,

true forge
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like, maybe something defensive besides the feat, a parry maybe?

true forge
dire dirge
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thats the point

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i dont WANT it to stack with nick

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but i also dont want to be better nick

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or free nick

true forge
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2d6 penalty is also alot

flint marsh
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I'd nver use that lol

dire dirge
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ok so the penalty is too high

true forge
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on avarage, its worse then GWM and SS

flint marsh
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it's a more complex, harder to use thing all for an extra 1 damage per attack

faint sonnet
flint marsh
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it does not achieve what you've said you want to achieve

true forge
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-7 opposed to -5

dire dirge
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dave, i think you still dont understand what i even wanted to achieve to begin with

flint marsh
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overly complicated way to fight with two longswords and miss a lot?

dire dirge
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and bobble, the 2d6 was originally 1

flint marsh
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if that's not it then you aren't achieveing what you want

dire dirge
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also where is the 5 coming from?

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5+5=10 not 6

true forge
# dire dirge and bobble, the 2d6 was originally 1

eh, idk if anybody would use it still, any reduction to attack rolls is bad no matter how you slice it, with GWM and SS, they can get away with it as the benefits are good, while this just seems, ok at best?

faint sonnet
flint marsh
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that's why 2024 gwm is so so so much better than 2014 even though 2014 has that "+10 damage!!!!" on it

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it's nick, but significantly worse

true forge
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also i would get rid of the Twinned Touch Training, as imo, 2 feats for the choice of one is a no go zone

dire dirge
flint marsh
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you say that as if it is a fact rather than an opinion lol

faint sonnet
dire dirge
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yes

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the 2014 dual wielder should have let us forego the bonus action cost

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but ok,

  • too big a penalty
  • needs more than just pseudo-nick
  • an additional feat is too much
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i can work with this

faint sonnet
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I actually think there's an interesting discussion point based on this, which is specifically that TWF is unique in the sense that it's a fighting style that is both DEX and STR.

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Dueling isn't something I'd really consider a "style", in the sense that your supplemental feats like Shield Master aren't actually about your single weapon, but what you have in the other hand.

dire dirge
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frankly, i'd have added to dueling that the player can use an item as a bonus action back in 2014. make an attack, then do stuff like chug a potion or pocket sand

faint sonnet
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Why I mention this at all is because if you have this feat and you are playing a DEX TWF character aiming for damage, there is now a single weapon you will use: Rapiers.

dire dirge
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we do need more nonlight finesse weapons dont we...

flint marsh
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just bows

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there's PLENTY of finesse out there and other ways to ignore strength for things that require strength

dire dirge
#

hexblade with pact of the blade my beloved~

faint sonnet
dire dirge
#

but yes, this is much better feedback to work with.

flint marsh
#

also there's the idea that "dex" is somehow your accuracy... but that's proficiency

faint sonnet
#

But someone could just forgo this feat and take Nick and appear to be a master as well.

dire dirge
#

(really dislike how dndb handles versioning.)

faint sonnet
#

I'm gonna go sleep very soon, but I really do think it's worthwhile to figure out the form of what you want very concisely, along with understanding if things can share that form, prior to getting super deep into the mechanics. Leading questions could be stuff like

  • "Does every master of this use this style?"
  • "Does mastery increase capabilities across the board, or only in specific aspects?"
  • "Does this provide any new avenues or unlock new 'powers' to use?"
#

I consider those good questions because when I think of a character I'd consider a/having Dual Wielding Master, I don't see them represented by the feat.

dire dirge
#

``You gain the following benefits.
Ability Score Increase. Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.

Superior Dual Wielding. During combat, you can treat Melee weapons that lack the Light and Two-Handed properties as if it has the Light property.

Crossing Swings. You can make the extra attack of the Light property as part of the Attack action with these weapons. For the rest of your turn, you cannot use your bonus action to make an extra attack of the Light property.

Twinned Touch Training. If you make an extra attack of the Light property with this feat, you can use the highest of the two attacks for both at a 2d4 penalty.``

#

for your consideration before you sleep.

#

imagine for a moment, in a single motion, you swipe at the enemy's chest leaving an x shaped scar

#

thats the fantasy im going for here

#

perfect unision

faint sonnet
#

I can imagine it, but I don't think the feat represents it.

#

I also am not saying that to be reductive, I'm just saying that I think the fantasy could be more bold.

flint marsh
#

it also kind of loses it's specialness if every turn you do the same x-slash thing because thnat's what the mechanics say you do

dire dirge
#

my reasoning for the new twin touched training is the symbolism that anything determined by a d20 role happens all simultaneously in a single second

flint marsh
#

intsead of flavoring a final hit as that

dire dirge
#

at least to me

#

well frankly, final hits seem more of a great weapon master thing.

flint marsh
#

we disagree on a lot of things

#

and that's okay

dire dirge
#

as i said earlier, a real great weapon master feat would just set a creature's hp to zero if they have low enough hitpoints

#

imo

#

thats just imo

flint marsh
#

yeah definitely also disagree there

faint sonnet
#

I'm looking at my old TWF Fighter subclass and I realize I literally almost word-for-word wrote Nick before I ever saw Nick.

flint marsh
#

GWM is an awesome feat that works great

faint sonnet
#

I mean, I'm all for that type of thing, to be honest.

flint marsh
#

sure, I don't think it should be tied to the basic feat that enables the fighting style though

#

that sounds like a high level ability for a subclass

faint sonnet
#

It honestly depends on the value of the health.

#

I can see it being something like immediately setting a creature's HP to zero if an attack left them with equal or less HP than your proficiency bonus, or something like that.

#

Anything that sells a fantasy harder and relies less on numbers is more skillful design to me.

dire dirge
#

warriors (the class group that they should have kept as a concept) dont really get a lot of flashy stuff like casters do and thats no secret.
so i really dont think someone slamming their BIG FRIDAY NIGHT FUNKY-OFF hammer down on someone thats already got a foot in the door, guarenteeing their name being an adjective meaning something painted a shade of dark pinkish red,
is really any more op than-
wait i was gonna say power word kill but then i realized theres no feat in the game that requires later levels until the epic boons...

faint sonnet
#

I'll be totally honest, if someone asked me to take a second feat in a feat tree and that second feat was just numbers, I'm going to be much less interested in it. It's a second feat, after all, so it can definitely give something exciting.

dire dirge
#

frankly,
im just doing what wotc did for the pact of the blade back when the hexblade came out instead of what they should have done.

#

but ok tamms, you're a fellow twf enjoyer

#

how can i make my feat more spectacular

#

than just numbers

faint sonnet
#

It needs to care significantly less about numbers, to be entirely honest. If it's meant to be an upgrade to TWF as a whole, make it provide two pathways, with one being a further upgrade to the classic Light weapons and the other being something that enables two non-Light weapons. Then, give some sort of increased interaction based on those pathways.

Here's a TWF subclass for Fighter I wrote back in 2023, for reference. It enables both TWF and Dueling, if you can spot how: https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-Na4agzjBybORowygslW

dire dirge
#

ohhhh kind of a... matrix of booleans...

peak inlet
#

which is definitely strange

#

I’m not sure if the current conversation is about this feat, but I def don’t see this as having the flavor that’s being talked about

true forge
faint sonnet
#

If you want to see an example of my more current standards for what I'd consider spectacular? This is the type of thing I consider spectacular.

Titanic Roar. When you enter your Rage, you can let out a roar. If you do so, creatures other than you and your allies in an Emanation originating from you must make a Wisdom saving throw (DC 8 plus your Strength modifier and Proficiency Bonus). The radius of the Emanation is a number of feet equal to five times your Barbarian Class Affinity. On a failed save, a creature has the Frightened condition for 1 minute. At the end of each of the Frightened creature’s turns, the creature repeats the save, ending the effect on itself on a success. This roar can be heard a number of feet away equal to 100 times your Barbarian Class Affinity.

peak inlet
faint sonnet
true forge
faint sonnet
#

In reality it's just a radial Frighten, but there's so many things that are played off of within the fantasy of it where you look at it and can tell the intent and how it would appear within the world, and it matches perfectly (at least, to me.)

peak inlet
true forge
peak inlet
#

30 foot emanation

peak inlet
dire dirge
true forge
faint sonnet
true forge
#

and its a subclass, which is different in design then feats and most other class things

peak inlet
#

yeh, subclasses have to be a bit broad, but feats have to be much more broad

faint sonnet
peak inlet
#

especially in 2024 since they’re all half-feats

#

you can’t just make a super specific strong feat

dire dirge
#

right... hmm...
well, maybe if you have an original light weapon and a nonlight weapon, along with the effects of my current text, if you miss with the nonlight you can go in with the other with advantage, a kind of "feint attack"?

#

but what would i give two lights and two nonlights...

faint sonnet
#

Actually gonna sleep now, but my last comment is that I'd read through all of the existing feats in the game while working on this and consider how you could make this numerical but unique.

peak inlet
#

I don’t think you should complicate it that much

faint sonnet
#

I just don't see the seasoning here, y'know? It feels like it appeals to the writer, but is hard to understand/get excited about if you aren't the writer.

dire dirge
#

to an extent i disagree lemon, we need more horizontal game design for pure martials.
even after the weapon masteries, they still get to higher levels with barely any new [BIG SHOT] to do

peak inlet
#

but my point is you don’t need it to be super specific

#

just a general effect that happens if you’re holding 2 Light weapons (whether innately or that became Light through the feat)

faint sonnet
#

The reason I say "read through all of the existing feats" is because I think an upgrade feat needs more oomph and excitement than this is being given.

dire dirge
#

hey, thats why i suggested GWM be given the power to splat someone with low enough hp

true forge
#

yeah but that isnt really a good design

peak inlet
#

making non-Light weapons Light is already a big effect, giving all Light weapons Nick is another big effect

true forge
#

comeback mechanics and all

faint sonnet
#

To clarify, when I say "upgrade feat", I'm referring to the fact that this is a feat conditional upon another feat already.

dire dirge
#

very true

true forge
#

a low HP creature would do anything it means to stay alive, and some DMs play into that idea with combat mechanics like Aspect of Tiamat (2014) but for other creatures

dire dirge
#

maybe two successful attacks with originally light weapons can give a free disengage?

#

the enemy too dazed by what even happened?

true forge
#

whats the fantasy of this?

#

what do you seen when you think of a master of welding two weapons?

dire dirge
#

imagine someone coming at you with two nunchucks and they're just absolutely goated with them. they hit you with them and you cant even react because they're so fast

true forge
#

maybe damage aswell idk, might be abit much

#

2 weapon fighting (in 2024) is abit viotile as is as weapon masteries and some features (and ofc magic weapons) make it 10x what it was in 2014

dire dirge
#

i dont like having to keep track of "how much am i supposed to subtract from my attack roll this time?"
it gives 3.5

dire dirge
true forge
#

i mean, nick only works for the nick weapon, tbh

#

you could just give all weapons nick

dire dirge
#

otherwise it will be 3 rolls to hit per attack

true forge
#

that would pretty good for a feat

dire dirge
#

i mean thats basically what im doing here

#

``You gain the following benefits.
Ability Score Increase. Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.

Superior Dual Wielding. You can make the extra attack of the Light property as part of the Attack action with weapons that lack both it and the Two-Handed property. For the rest of your turn, you cannot use your bonus action to make an extra attack of the Light property.

Twinned Touch Training. If you make an extra attack of the Light property with this feat, you can use the highest of the two attacks for both at a 2d4 penalty.``

true forge
#

yeah

dire dirge
#

worded it a bit differently

true forge
#

just say weapons that dont have the Nick property gain it and can use it instead of their weapon mastery (so say longsword, your choice between sap/whatever it is or nick)

#

as its basically the same

dire dirge
#

no see, if you have extra attack and nick, theres the first, the nick, the extra, and the bonus attack
my feat will let you roll two attacks, per attack

#

there has to be a better way to word that, wotc.

true forge
#

and thats balanced?

dire dirge
#

read the part of the feat where im disqualifying a bonus action attack

true forge
#

i dont brew for 2024 often, so i cant really help all to much, i'd wait for tamms or other 2024 people to help

#

they are better then me in that department anyway

dire dirge
#

keep in mind the earliest you're going to get my feat is gonna be lvl 8

#

if only treantmonk was in this discord...

peak inlet
peak inlet
#

because Fighters can get it at level 6

dire dirge
#

no but i added dual wielder as a prere-

#

huh?

#

OOPS

#

eh... fighters should.

balmy leaf
# dire dirge ``You gain the following benefits. Ability Score Increase. Increase your Strengt...

i understand what you’re going for an honestly im all for it

the issue is that RAW it will be stronger than other methods of fighting - what dnd really needs is a martial overhaul that makes all kinds of fighting styles balanced and working

but for the sake of it, i think:
“You can use the Nick weapon mastery on Any one-handed weapon, regardless of it having the nick or light properties’ might be the easiest way to manage that

peak inlet
#

double Nick is really strong

balmy leaf
#

indeed

dire dirge
#

you know what armokil,

peak inlet
#

if you wanna make a double Nick feat, that’s kinda your whole budget for the feat + the 1 ASI

dire dirge
#

i'll bite the bullet

peak inlet
balmy leaf
peak inlet
#

but then you have Vex/Nick weapon combos with all your weapons

#

I still think it’s too much

balmy leaf
#

that should sort it

but i do like the idea of making dual wielding as strong as you want it to be Octo - more martial strength is something im keen for all around.

balmy leaf
#

but either way, if you wanna balance it 2024 style, i wouldnt go beyond letting them dual wield as though any 1 handed weapon was a dagger etc

peak inlet
#

I think 2024 Martials are pretty close to casters (not taking Circle Casting into account)

#

in terms of combat at least

balmy leaf
#

Over the course of an adventuring day with lots of combat, yes

but most tables dont have that, and thats not mentioning out-of-combat

balmy leaf
peak inlet
#

utility-wise they’re lacking

balmy leaf
#

in combat martials are doing better than before, but spellcaster scaling still does outpace them imo

peak inlet
#

but this doesn’t help their out of combat power, it just supercharges them in combats, where they’re already better than casters for a lot of the early levels

balmy leaf
#

i mean barbarian scaling is an extra rage damage every 4/5 levels or so
caster scaling is an extra entire dice for a slightly higher spell slot, or with cantrips is the same

balmy leaf
#

i wanna see an era where martials are good in combat, and can outperform casters since casters are great out of combat too

#

anyway, thats a whole debate thats been going on for years, probably not too releveant here

peak inlet
#

I personally give my Martials the +2 Flanking bonus but not my casters (after Circle Casting was added)

balmy leaf
#

all in all if you want balance Octo, tone it to be slightly slightly weaker than just ‘all 1 handed weapons you use are light and have nick’
if you want the fun you’re after, go it your way

peak inlet
#

which I think already puts them in a really good spot

balmy leaf
peak inlet
#

they also get a +5 bonus if the creature is completely surrounded

#

which is completely insane when you have a narrow path and flank them in an alley

balmy leaf
#

i would love more maneuver esque martial features, and perhaps even teamfighting combos like circle casting

peak inlet
#

(and because of half-cover, that gives casters a -2 to attack those creatures)

flint marsh
#

not all of these have been hit with the balancehammer yet

dire dirge
#

``You gain the following benefits.
Ability Score Increase. Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.

Superior Dual Wielding. All melee weapons that lack the Two-Handed property are treated as having the Light weapon property and Nick weapon mastery.

Light Work. If you attack with a melee weapon that originally has the Light property, Each subsequent attack with a light weapon after the first on your turn reduces the minimum roll needed to crit by 1 for the rest of the turn.

Long and Short. If you make an extra attack of the Light Property after a melee weapon that originally lacks the Light and Two-Handed property misses, your Light attack will deal critical damage if successful.

Synchronized Swinging. If you make an attack with a melee weapon that originally lacks the Light and Two-Handed properties, You can roll for advantage with a 1d6 penalty and use the result for the extra attack of the Light property.``

#

i really wish they just called "an extra attack with the Light property" as "an off-hand attack".

#

wait crap, the last one was supposed to have a nonlight weapon for both

peak inlet
#

I can go through all of them and give you feedback, but I just think they have so much more space for the most part

#

Vampire Hunter gives advantage on all ways of leaving Grappled and advantage to leave non-magical restraints and also has a more powerful version of your Draconic one

flint marsh
#

what is vampire hunter

peak inlet
#

it’s an Origin Feat in the new DLC book

flint marsh
#

ah

peak inlet
#

I know you said you didn’t balance it yet, but I’m not sure what else to get into

#

so I’m sorry if that’s not what you’re looking for

flint marsh
#

I'm very open to feedback

#

I just didn't know what vampire hunter is haha

dire dirge
#

if you ask me, vampirism shouldnt be a heritage but an origin.

#

or some other system.

flint marsh
#

it already exists as a system, see the monster manual

peak inlet
#

idk if we’re allowed to send the full thing, but basically it’s advantage against leaving Grappled and any non-magical restraints, and you can decrease Necrotic damage by PBd6 per SR

dire dirge
#

oh dave you're back
i revised my feat

peak inlet
#

I think you could get around a flat d6 without a Reaction on Draconic Resilience maybe

true forge
flint marsh
#

Satyrs don't get access to these feats as they aren't 2024 species

#

these feats specifically are only available for level 1. Satyrs don't get a level 1 feat. so there's no worry there

peak inlet
true forge
#

Oh so it really effects humans then, nvm my thing then lol

void jewel
#

Dave are those intended as origin feats

dire dirge
#

idk what to tell you lemon, tamms told me that an upgrade feat should have more pizzazz

#

and so i went with a branching design

void jewel
#

And the species thing seems like an oversight. Old species are still valid in 2024. Not allowing them to take a feature the new ones have would kill the old species. Satyr are a valid 2024 species, even RAW, they just aren't in the 2024 pub.

flint marsh
#

right, but they don't get a feat

void jewel
#

Why wouldn't they, under this system, I'm just curious

peak inlet
#

other than the last one which is super weak instead?

void jewel
#

No new species gets a feat for being that species except human. All origin feats come from backgrounds otherwise

dire dirge
#

should i just not have a penalty at all then

flint marsh
void jewel
#

That isn't true.

#

The PHB just states not to use racial ASIs

flint marsh
#

oh dip, you get to double dip?

dire dirge
#

to flumph with it im going to bed.

void jewel
#

No, you just don't get the racial ASIs

#

Specific guidelines in the character creation section of phb

flint marsh
#

well I'll add language there that this is balanced around 2024 species

void jewel
#

There's just no reason to restrict species like that is the thing

#

It just kills a lot of choice for no reason or benefit. It solves a problem that doesn't exist

#

(Old species do not get the ASIs from species in 2024 already, so it isn't an issue)

#

Don't get me wrong, I think if a DM wanted to limit races to 2024 phb, they can do that, I just don't see why that should be done on a system-level like this

#

You can totally make it that way though. If I was to use such a system, is probably just remove that rule for my games

flint marsh
#

no worries. I just added a prerequisite of humanoid for anything with a different type

void jewel
#

That's fair enough

#

I'd probably just ignore that if I found it to be an issue, which is also reasonable.

peak inlet
#

or you can just say that the type change is what requires the humanoid prerequisite

void jewel
#

I'd just mentally remove the prereq if I was the DM, but that's just me.

#

Not gonna punish my player for rolling up a satyr with less options

flint marsh
#

I mean it is on them to choose it or not, I suppose - these are meant to represent ancestry that involves other species - so don't play an aarakocra and then pick "wings"

#

it would also not behoove an elf to take sharp eyes

peak inlet
#

are those in addition to your background origins or instead of them?

flint marsh
#

these are instead of. as an option

peak inlet
#

alright then I still think they’re on the weaker end

flint marsh
#

the first paragraph kind of covers it

void jewel
#

I do think we need medium armor + shields origin feat back, to get around the dip meta.

flint marsh
#

and that's totally fair. I don't mind tweaking the potency at all

void jewel
#

Origin feat balance is already all over the place

peak inlet
#

that gives the effect of 2 benefits of a Fighter dip

void jewel
#

(You do get more from the dip, and you don't want to delay warcaster which allows you to actually use lots of spells)

#

But war caster and the component system is its own bag of worms

wild parcel
#

Zatoichi (requires attunement)
Cane Sword
1d6 dex scaling
-5 weapon
Underestimate the blind man: Upon missing with this weapon 4 times in a row, this weapon loudly snaps, turning into a +5 weapon for 1 minute.
A blind man's gamble: Critical ranges for fails and successes increase by 2. Critical failures apply critical damage. Critical hits deal 2 times more damage.
Friendly Fire: Critical failures always hit your allies, or yourself if no allies are within range.
Overcompensate: Whilst attuned to this weapon, your perception (sight) is reduced by 10 but your perception (hearing) is increased by 10.
Massage after the fight: For every 10 damage dealt with this weapon, it stores 1 hp, after a fight is over, you may heal yourself or your allies with it.

weapon based on a movie, whatcha guys think?

peak inlet
#

it’s an origin feat but you can’t pick a Fighting Style unless you get it later

flint marsh
#

you'll need to define critical failures as that isnt' a game term currently

void jewel
wild parcel
restive tusk
#

A bag of rats doesn’t necessarily care when or where the rats are found, only that they are present to trigger the effect. Could just pick them up beforehand. Hell, you could target an object and miss that, shouldn’t be hard if you miss something made of metal (steel/iron) or rock which have suggested ACs of 19 and 17, respectively.

peak inlet
#

I think the weapon as a whole isn’t really designed for 5e in the current state

#

even ignoring the bag of rats problem

#

also, what’s the base weapon?

#

is it a Shortsword stat block?

#

or a whole new weapon that just has Shortsword damage?

west tangle
#

@primal osprey your list is so real, all of the classes I wanna brew subclasses for are either half casters or full martials

primal osprey
#

They are just more fun to homebrew for

west tangle
#

I really wanna homebrew a good support fighter subclass

primal osprey
#

I’ve always wanted to make one that’s all about fighting as a team

west tangle
#

I have a set of feats to give to a party when they achieve that kind of team cohesion actually

primal osprey
#

Now I wanna remake undying patron but make it good

#

And make it less undead themed

west tangle
primal osprey
west tangle
primal osprey
primal osprey
west tangle
#

They're just feats, but it means that everyone in the party will get them. I like to save them for the end of the first story arc, once the party has an identity and a shared coheson

primal osprey
#

Let’s see, I wouldn’t want to copy Dark One’s blessing, but it does seem rather suitable for the vibe

west tangle
#

I also don't let players take them for their ASI feats, they're only given at DM discretion

#

And if new PCs join the party, they get them maybe a couple sessions down the track

primal osprey
amber hollow
#

I've got a few subclass brews I'm proud of
here are my four In-Spired Subclasses (get it? cuz... slay the spire, inspired? spire)
Warrior of Resonance, a sound/vibration based subclass for Monk

I've otherwise helped a friend make more, and I have a... decent few on the backburner, and some others that I have discontinued.

west tangle
#

Honestly?

#

I don't have anything to do, I might give a subclass a first crack.

primal osprey
#

Hell yes

west tangle
#

I'm not sure what class to do one for.

#

Taking suggestions otherwise I'll roll a d12 for it

amber hollow
#

Oh, I'd also made an entire document for Void Powers like the classic Dishonored

primal osprey
amber hollow
#

total of 30 powers in the list, 14 active 16 passive

#

And each class gets a unique perk, too. Martials get some energy recovery, casters get quirky bonuses

#

like barbarian getting to do spells from void powers during rage, or druid buffing wild shape, paladins getting to make a gambit on damage (rerolling damage), Ranger getting free mark transferral and no concentration while they have energy, or wizard getting quick rituals

primal osprey
#

That's a lot

#

Btw I've started my remake of the undying patron already. And right away I am stuck with abilities

amber hollow
#

yeah, the default is starting with 2 powers at 3rd level. That doesn't include Class Power, an auto-granted given. But the 2 of your choice from the list needs at least 1 active.
the 1 active power limit remains in place, even until you get to level 17 and get your final, 9th power. So at most, you get 8/16 of the passives, or 9/14 of the actives. (but all the actives will be a big drain on energy - even some passives)

primal osprey
#

Still cool.

#

Good balance with the passives and actives

amber hollow
#

As for the void energy amount and recovery, very adjustable. Want more trickle feed? Make it low cap but fast recovery. Want a very strategic resource? high cap, near-no recovery.

#

But there are a lot of powers.
Talk to rats, defy death, resist magic, emanate fear, be quiet, walk on walls and do big jumps from them like vampires in modern movies, do super slides, cast spells using void magic

and that's just passives
bend time for some haste, or use Emily's far reach tentacle hoist, or Corvo's infamous Blink, manipulate the minds of individuals or the masses, enter a mirror dimension or change your face, bind fates together, see through the power of umbral sense, yeet your enemies with wind, or use the mislead spell to really mislead with an illusion so real it can make attacks.

I am really proud of that doc, in general.

true forge
amber hollow
true forge
amber hollow
#

Me

true forge
#

Oh right, my mistake (its also me)

#

Well, i might need to look at somethings for inspiration for something lol

#

I kinda wanna make a artificer, as my last one was alot

amber hollow
#

oh, artificer
I really enjoyed the Channeler I made

true forge
#

I wouldn't of thought of it (and also making it as it sounds really annoying lol)

amber hollow
#

Elaborate?

true forge
#

Like, the mechanics of them lol

#

StS its easy, but dnd? Not so much

amber hollow
#

Ah, I understand

true forge
#

At least for me

amber hollow
#

yeah, Defect's Orbs mechanic was quite the hrmm

#

But I think it went stellar. Especially for all the other features! So little to use from Defect as inspiration. No claws, FTL, laser, steam or holograms. Just Orbs.
So, Fission, Orbit, that kinda stuff came in!
That and just being, nifty passives, quirky effects, relatively small amount of them at a time, and we were keeping an eagle eye on costs vs benefits

#

by the time you go "this combo is crazy!" it's probably at the level that crazy averages out the meh of artificer as half a caster without a martial half.

true forge
#

Well iron clad and huntress's gimmicks aren't really gimmicks (in a dnd sense)

You got damage with some fire and tanking, then you got poisons and acrobatics

#

And well other one (forget the name)

#

Its gimmick is pretty easy to translate into dnd

amber hollow
#

Silent* But yeah Silent does have a gimmick.

The issue was, doing anything with Silent. I'm proud of Pit Viper, silent really had a lot of clunk to it before. Initially a poison based subclass, I went further to the martial art style, dirty fighting, sucker punch and heel hook and finesse strike style.

#

The characters in StS really do have unique gimmicks, and they essentially have subclasses of their own.
Block Ironchad, vs the HP spending ironclad, vs the Exhaust ironclad, or attacks and weakens silent vs poison silent vs skill silent, orb defect vs claw defect, etc

#

Yknow an annoying part though?
I think Soulfire might be a better name than Lifeburn, for the Fire Warrior.

true forge
amber hollow
true forge
amber hollow
#

Oh, wow I just remembered the StS supplement doc we've been working on... yeah that comes with rules for Block, as well as a couple feats...

true forge
#

Oof

amber hollow
#

anyway, Watcher, I also really like Watcher's subclass, the Way of the Flowing River (I'm not changing it from way and nobody can make me! :P )

#

I am a sucker for Stances, as well as supernatural stances especially

true forge
#

Hmmm, what game/piece of media could I translate into dnd, mainly as subclasses for now (i have a couple of projects i would like to get semi done before starting more)

true forge
amber hollow
true forge
amber hollow
#

does terraria even have features not dependent on gear

true forge
amber hollow
#

yeah, I.. would absolutely pass on trying to make a subclass based on either of those games

#

StS worked because they were defined characters with descriptive fantasies

#

terraria is "i have sword that killed three gods, now I use it and wings of gods to kill god but number 4"

true forge
amber hollow
#

Huh.
Any contexts as to which kinds of brews?

true forge
#

Mainly subs, maybe items or monsters if I can be generous

amber hollow
#

because up front, COD Zombies subclass has no material, DBD also has no material for a D&D subclass
Maybe overwatch characters could inspire one

true forge
amber hollow
#

also, me when I make the hand of vecna from DBD into a D&D item (full circle dndLol )

#

the issue is, what would a cod zombies inspired subclass... do. kiting? points for crits? spend points for... weapons? board windows?

true forge
#

There is also some more generic stuff like

Dual welding
Stances
Ect ect

true forge
#

Kinda like alchemist arti, but not

amber hollow
true forge
amber hollow
#

oh, right. Still though, feels too abstract.

true forge
#

Fair

amber hollow
#

At least with Channeler, I could get the idea of "magitech revolving around a Core, makes Orbs based on arcane energy, Orbs do stuff"

true forge
#

True, was just an idea lol

#

Should probably get Mytho-Mash (one of the 2 projects) finshed lol

amber hollow
#

yeah, for me it's just... you get a perk from a gumball machine. The how and the why, and where it came from, is the crucial "huh?" part to me

true forge
#

Im 2 races deep of the 6 planned

#

And still got to make items and monsters (which both im not skilled at)

amber hollow
#

whereas, to explain my thinking, Channeler in the same example
Arcane Core they made, the why is recycling a bit more energy, and the where is from the artificer making it in order to do magic with it

#

oh I am pretty experienced with monsters

true forge
amber hollow
#

for reference... do you know of XCOM 2's ADVENT enemy roster?

true forge
#

Nope

amber hollow
#

dreadnought twins from DRG, or The Visage from the Binding of Isaac Repentance, or Agony and Tundra from ULTRAKILL?

true forge
#

Draugr
:
Kamad
:
Wildkin
:
Thunderborn
:
Furnature
:
Lineage: Poltergeist
:
Astra Ursa

Those are the races, only Dragur and Wildkin are finshed lol

true forge
amber hollow
#

Well, here goes
bunch of Random Creations
Otorians (being used in my campaign as aberration's vat-grown mind controlled army, initially supported on ingenious tech (like gnome ceremorph making laser pistol), but had to dial back to more magical stuff)
Malefactors from "The Suffering"
Agony and Tundra twin boss, as well as The Rose and The Thorns, and my take on reworking the Royal Incinerator from MonkeyDM.
Here's just what I feel would survive a spotlight given how so much of my catalogue is going to be "very legacy" in design.

faint sonnet
# dire dirge ``You gain the following benefits. Ability Score Increase. Increase your Strengt...

Honestly, the first bit is what I'm most fond of in this feat.

I'm not sure if I'm not conveying the rest properly when I said "move away from numbers", but thinking of it from a user perspective, all of these options basically read "you are going to do more damage and your actions during combat or capabilities are not at all modified."

For example, I hate how 5.24 Sharpshooter negates Disadvantage in close range (because the feat ends up bypassing essentially every downside of most ranged weapons), but bypassing most cover and ignoring the penalty of long range are both wonderful for the fantasy and for the gameplay aspect. If you can bypass cover and ignore the penalty of long range, those capabilities will have a tangible effect on how a player interfaces with combat.

If I'm in a combat as a ranged martial without SS and there's a high value target that needs to die ASAP and a medium value target, but the high value target is partially behind cover, I have a difficult choice for if I want to try to focus that high value target despite the lower chances of killing them or if I want to aim for the medium value target that I have a very high chance of killing. With the investment into Sharpshooter, that same situation lets me ensure that the high value target isn't really more protected at all. I've gained a way to circumvent a weakness, and that's actually all my feat does. Even so, it totally impacts how I may approach scenarios. I may actually play in a way that I put myself in more scenarios with cover because I know the enemies are more affected than I am by it.

Even GWM has an impact because hits that drop a target to 0 (or less importantly, crit) allow an immediate other attack. This means that being in the fray with multiple enemies and reducing them to 0 ends up letting you do a pseudo-Cleave. Where this DWM feat deviates from those two feats, along with others like CBE, PAM, and Shield Master, is that it solely and directly focuses on the numerical aspect but doesn't actually provide the user a more exciting play pattern. Aside from the first bullet point, it basically reads "numbers get bigger", as if martial combat's issue is numbers and not a lack of excitement factor.

I want to be clear that there's no actual issue with numeric bonuses, and I've used simple bonuses plenty in my own entire Fighting Style rework, but when you look at the core of fantasies, any bonus granted should be directly and evocatively derived from that fantasy in a way that enables the player to use it as a tool for enjoyment.

A really simple one of mine is below:

Ambitious

Prerequisite: Adamant

You have Advantage on Initiative rolls and your Speed is increased by 10 feet on your first turn in combat.

Additionally, you have proficiency in Persuasion (or History, if already proficient) and when you roll a 20 on the d20 for an ability check, you gain one Heroic Inspiration.

Looking at what it grants, the first bit is very "boring" mechanics-wise, but considering it's linked to a PC's personality, it's not just a bonus to the first turn in combat; it's a way for a player to having their PC express a personality trait. The fact that I gave a cherry on-top where you get Heroic Inspiration for getting a Nat 20 on an ability check is meant to push the player towards being more involved in the situations in which they are getting those Nat 20's.

golden temple
radiant palm
dire dirge
#

(Instead?)

faint sonnet
#

I would honestly take a step back and figure out the evocative capabilities you're trying to tell with the feat. That's one of many things that separates thoughtful design from unthoughtful design. How do you want the players to feel and act when using this feat, and how do you want to empower them to do that within the feat itself?

#

The key to that is making mechanizing one of the last steps and honestly cutting it out of the creative steps entirely until you've cemented the idea.

#

Personally, I can think of at least 5 ways off the top of my head that dual-wielding is made really cool in fantasy, and none of those 5 ways is really reflected well by just giving a straight numerical bonus, y'know?

dire dirge
faint sonnet
#

I think of things like:

  • Parrying with both weapons.
  • Confusing the enemy due to attacks from multiple angles.
  • Consecutive striking making it harder and harder to defend against.
  • Being able to swap between weapons really easily.
  • Being able to fight off multiple enemies due to having multiple weapons.
dire dirge
#

as one example

#

also frankly i think the current rules already lets us swap easily

mild cove
winged hollow
#

"Don't do it"

dire dirge
#

yes but this is a world where a full tummy and a good night's sleep brings you back from the brink of death.

#

im not playing world of darkness

winged hollow
#

If you HAVE to do it though, here are some tips I recall.

-Don't block with both weapons. Otherwise you'll let your opponent engage and control both weapons and leave you without a means to strike back
-Use weapons of different lengths
-Attack with one and defend with the other. Don't use both to attack or defend.

faint sonnet
#

Jumping straight to the implementation is how you lose out on creating lot of cool ideas.

faint sonnet
winged hollow
#

Yeah, one of the reasons is that your mind needs to keep track of multiple weapons that you have one you as well as your opponents's. I imagine that's why in some editions of D&D, there's a penalty for attack rolls.

true forge
golden temple
#

owh,,,

golden temple
#

ssuddenly wanna work on weapon tactics, , , ,

#

bwah, , , ,

#

(it's because it'd let me add stuff like dirks with a reason for it to be different from like, a dagger)

#

(and because i saw it described as "The very name of this dagger sounds like someone is choking on their own blood.")

smoky sand
#

Would it be homebrew if I could make level 39 dnd characters?

#

3 levels in eevery class?

mild cove
loud birch
#

This feature was inspired by the Flourish system in Fable and is intended to be a core mechanic for Fighters to give them a boost in a system that offers much more power to spellcasters than those who rely on weapon attacks and mundane abilities.

The Momentum Dice are a resource that waxes and wanes with combat but is never fully gone, all the Fighter need to is land another blow, feeding the loop of striking, striking harder, and punishing opponents in close combat. This supports the fantasy of a character who excels in martial combat above all others and effectively introduces an attack combo mechanic, thanks to Fighters’ extra attacks and action surges. Players will want to think about whether to save up as much Momentum as they can on their current turn to unleash a spectacular blow or ability on their next turn, or whether to avoid the risk of losing the streak and instead putting out a consistent stream of slightly stronger attacks.

Later levels offer more than just mathematical improvements to the feature and let the final blows of the Fighter fuel the next one by refunding the Momentum Dice spent on an attack if that attack causes the target to reach 0 hit points, as well as becoming resistant to losing the Momentum they’ve built up.

true forge
#

born from animal related dreams

noble lion
#

This was mostly for fun cause I don't think the party would fight him, but it is helpfulness for just in case

versed matrix
#

Anyone have a any simple changes to buff scorching ray to make it more viable?

#

would just a simple damage buff work?

#

or does it need a major rework

#

its not a bad spell just undertuned

nova basin
#

It probably needs a rider

#

A slot for inconsistent damage isn't great, the appeal is the multiple attack rolls but it can be hard to capitalize on that because it's a spell

#

Maybe the next time a hit creature takes fire damage it detonates for extra damage

versed matrix
nova basin
#

Tracking burns is annoying

#

It's an option but people usually try to find alternatives

stuck raptor
#

especially with how many attacks and rolling scorching ray already does

versed matrix
versed matrix
nova basin
#

Probably

#

Or quickened spell a tight group

#

Like scorching hits 3, you hit the one in the middle with quickened firebolt to detonate, 10 ft aoe to detonate the other 2

#

But probably make it so a creature can only gain that mark once per turn

versed matrix
#

would this also enable you to single target by shooting with one beam, and then triggering the blast with the second beam?

nova basin
#

Yes

#

But you would only get one detonation on that creature

versed matrix
#

so how much damage and aoe would you reccomend?

#

for the additional blast?

nova basin
#

So it would be optimal to do 2 shots at 1 target then the rest elsewhere

#

Probably 10ft aoe 1d6 fire

#

It's not a lot but it sets off a chain

#

Pure damage spells usually work better when they can hit more than 1 target at a time

versed matrix
nova basin
versed matrix
#

ah don't know how i missed that

#

ty this is an interesting idea

thorn sun
#

I am gonna ask here but I am unsure if this is supposed to be optimization or third party, but I want to update a subclass I've already published to DnD beyond, is all that I do set it to version 1.1, make the changes, then publish it?

hasty onyx
#

i think so

thorn sun
#

Okay, thank you

golden temple
#

awah,,,

#

ccan i get some feedback on my warlock subclass, , , ,

amber hollow
hidden delta
golden temple
#

ssorry yeah that's as a result of it being my first attempt at writing one of these down like this (i use dicecloud, which is only easy to understand for like, people who use dicecloud)

hidden delta
#

fair

#

but what is the goal of the subclass

golden temple
#

wwdym,,?

hidden delta
#

most sublcases have thing they excel at and want to do

golden temple
#

ahh,, probably like, hexes-? i understand what you mean, all of these are like, combat-oriented, , , ,

#

jjust a bit worried abt bloat at that point, since many features already give two unique actions per subclass level up,,

hidden delta
#

it seems wierd to play level 3 i think is fine, to me it seems you try to kill with a light weapon then stun targets to do it again. but at higher levels the chain kills seem to dispear which i think would be a fun direction

hidden delta
void citrus
#

Doji, Magical Ogrillions: A Homebrew Race/Subrace for Half-Orcs Guide.
.
Doji or Shuten-Doji : Volo’s Notes. “A Doji is the result of intermixing between Orcs and the Magical Ogres called Onis. These rare Ogrillons mostly come from the east, in far lands of Kara-Tur" -Volo
.
.
Size: Medium
.
Age: Matures at 40, can live up to 580 years.
.
Creature Type: Humanoide.
.
Speed: 35 ft.
.
Alignment: Any.
.
Ability Score Increase: +1 to Con & +2 To Cha.
.
.
Race Traits: Darkvision (80 ft)
.
Regeneration (regain +2 hp after a Long, Short or Song of rest or when not in combat.).
.
Initiate spellcasting:
You know Minor Illusion Or Prestidigitation (at 3rd level). [Once per short rest]
Invisibility, Vicious Mockery Or Charm Person (at 6th level). [Once per long rest].
Enlarge/Reduce Or Polymorph (at 12th level). [Once per long rest]
.
Elemental resistance (Based on Oni lineage).
.
Savage Attacks.
Relentless Endurance.
Menacing.
.
Languages: Orcish, Giant & Common.
.
.
The Oni Liniages.
.
Red (Akuma): Resistance to Fire.
.
Blue (Enma-O): Resistance to Cold.
.
Green (Gaki): Resistance to Poison.
.
Yellow (Kojio): Resistance to Psychic.
.
Black (Kijin): Resistance to Shock.
.
White (Hannya): Resistance to Necrotic.
.
[I present to the comunity the race i worked on while I was in the hospital]

golden temple
midnight elk
#

So a friend of mine made this and I'm wondering how OP it is:
Properties

The properties of this weapon depends on the Starcore that is inserted into it, and here is the properties of each
M Type: Red plasma, 2d4 Fire(1) Slashing(1)
K Type: Orange Plasma, 2d6 Fire(1) Slashing(1)
G Type: Yellow Plasma, 3d6 Fire(1) Slashing(2)
F Type: Yellow Plasma, 4d6 Fire(2) Slashing (2)
A Type: White Plasma, 3d8 Fire(1) Slashing(2)
B Type: Light Blue Plasma, 4d8 Fire(2) Slashing(2)
O Type: Dark Blue Plasma, 4d12 Fire(2) Slashing(2)
W Type: Purple Plasma, 8d20 Fire(3) Slashing(3) Force(2)

hidden delta
golden temple
#

oh that one was sort of supposed to be a preface to malediction and anemnesis, as well as for chaotic offering later on,,

#

ddamage over time effect, , , , also i wanted a risky chaotic heal,,

hidden delta
#

it doesn't fit

#

maybe an aoe that deals a little damage or grants a debuff soemthing to use on enemies

ocean plume
golden temple
#

tthe debuffs are the various hexes in the spell list, , , ,

midnight elk
#

Except for one

ocean plume
hidden delta
ocean plume
#

@golden temple Wyrd Reconstruction
Crit! 0

#

(i think that's how you spell that anyway)

midnight elk
#

to get a w type

ocean plume
#

still, just having a W type at all

#

at that damage

midnight elk
#

Yeah.

ocean plume
#

is incredibly busted and should not exist lmao

#

just 2 attacks puts the wielder with a W type hitting for 168 damage

midnight elk
ocean plume
#

"hopefully"

golden temple
ocean plume
#

you're the dm...

ocean plume
#

let me read this actually

golden temple
#

it's just occultist😭

#

tthat is one of the main criticisms i've gotten, or like, one of the only ones,,

#

"it's just occultist'

ocean plume
#

well that's not a bad thing

golden temple
#

actually the ongoing conversation with jomakl is very good for me since no one's actually looked at it from a gameplay standpoint,,

ocean plume
#

okay

midnight elk
#

so 280 attacks before you can get a W type

golden temple
#

i may ax wyrd reconstruction and just make it a spell available to warlocks, the outer spheres,,

#

i could keep the bonus from unchecked power to advance the eldritch blast thing in level 1,,

ocean plume
# golden temple actually the ongoing conversation with jomakl is very good for me since no one's...

here's just my feedback on the level 1 feature

  1. "Unchecked Power" tokens only being gained in combat is fine, but you don't need to specify that they are not gained on short/long rest. this is how i'd word it:

While in combat, you can accept and draw upon power from the outer planes. When you first enter combat, you start with 0 Unchecked Power tokens, and certain subclass actions allow you to gain them, up to a maximum of 3*. After combat ends, your Unchecked Power tokens are all lost.
*editor's note: make this to a maximum of your charisma modifier so it scales as you grow a bit

  1. your gain of tokens is very, very slow! only gaining 1 after YOU, a warlock who probably shouldn't be in melee, kill a creature with a light (property?) melee weapon attack. if you're fighting against a boss without minions, for example, you simply won't get any until after the fight is over, at which point they won't matter.
  2. coupling this with the fact that your way to expend them is also antisynergistic with how you acquire them. you get them by being in melee, but to spend them you have to attack (not hit?) a creature with eldritch blast, a spell you'd be casting in melee and thus have disadvantage on all beams because you are making a ranged attack from melee.
golden temple
#

i see what you mean, , ,

#

i suppose my only real argument is It's Level One And You Get Binding Before The Tier Ends

ocean plume
#

occultist can hit from the 3 position ingame with sacrificial stab so if you really want to stick with representing sacrificial stab, you could tack on a feature that allows this class DURING THEIR TURN to make melee weapon attacks up to 30 feet away

golden temple
#

it would be interesting to add like, a sort of, , , what would it be, like, , , yeah like that actually 😭

#

increased range with a melee weapon attack with the light property,,

ocean plume
golden temple
#

oh wait,,

#

yyou're right my apologies 😭

golden temple
#

wwith sacrificial being just a passive on kill,,

ocean plume
unique parrot
void citrus
#

yhea, i kinda just wrote it while i was high off pain meds in the hospital, sorry.

golden temple
#

😭 ah

unique parrot
golden temple
#

sstill wondering if i should keep sacrificial in some way, the just, on kill - gain 1 unchecked power,,

#

as an action, maybe-? hm,,

ocean plume
#

also, it can create a lot of feel-bad scenarios

golden temple
#

yyou're very correct,,

ocean plume
#

joking about killstealing becomes a lot more important

golden temple
#

hmm,,

ocean plume
#

if someone accidentally rolls big on damage and steals a kill from you, your subclass doesn't function

golden temple
#

wwhat if it counted for another's kill, , , , hm,,,

#

tthinking about some kind of buff on a willing target, that allows the warlock to gain unchecked power from that creature's kills once per turn at the cost of an action,,

nova basin
#

I usually do "when a target you have damaged since the start of your last turn dies"

#

That way there's no resource cost for quality of life

golden temple
#

i might wanna limit it a bit more than that,, ,,

#

it's used for very big stuff later on in the subclass,,

nova basin
#

Idk I'd keep that and have some sort of execute mechanic later on to ensure your loop works

#

I think an early execute mechanic would be too strong tho

#

Or you could make it a reaction to pull the life essence from a creature that dies in range

golden temple
#

i mean at level 1 you can use it to cause a stun at the cost of two tokens,,

nova basin
#

Okay?

golden temple
#

fforgot to reply but i do understand what you mean,,

golden temple
wheat kindle
#

Would a melee 1d10 finess weapon which doesn't let you to use a shield be broken on a ranger?

whole adder
#

No

#

Unless you can dual wield it but even then I think it'll at most be above average but not broken tier

wheat kindle
void jewel
#

A ranger wants a shield if they're using a one handed weapon

#

Definitely not overpowered

wheat kindle
flint marsh
#

is it two handed?

#

basically finesse means that it is getting rid of requirements for use (Strength) and allowing you to just use dex, which also allows for better AC, initiative, saves, and a ton of skills, which ranger already uses. so it is likely not too balanced, because larger weapons/weapons that do more damage are balanced by having strength as their ability score

void jewel
#

Is it really a balance concern though?

#

Like, said ranger is already giving up +2ac. That's massive.

flint marsh
#

I mean rangers do bows or TWF all the time

void jewel
#

Bows are great due to range but yeah TWF is suboptimal so not the thing to compare to for balance IMO

flint marsh
#

if 1d10 on a one handed weapon isn't a balnce issue, then why aren't all strength based one handed weapons 1d10?

void jewel
#

Black and white.

flint marsh
#

oh I see

#

that's very informative

void jewel
#

The fact that other weapons aren't doesn't mean one being that way would inherently be an issue

#

Let alone the fact that this (presumably) isn't a magic weapon

flint marsh
#

my point is that there are no one-handed 1d10 weapons. and all the weapons that are 1d8 that are versatile are strength based. finesse weapons typically have lower damage or are unable to be used as a versatile weapon.

void jewel
#

I totally agree with that point from a truth standpoint, I just don't think the point matters

flint marsh
#

oh, well that's certainly a thing you can think

#

have a great night!

void jewel
#

I think we compare to what is optimal, and it's worse than what is optimal due to much lower defenses.

#

Essentially this line of thinking:
If all finesse weapons were 1d4, introducing a 1d6 one wouldn't be overpowered, because that's still subpar.

Needs to be evaluated in the grand scheme of available options, rather than against its direct competition IMO.

(Similar to how, even though spell fire flare is better than scorching ray, it still isn't overpowered)

wheat kindle
nova basin
#

That only really serves somatic spell components

#

-2 ac for no strings attached somatics is not that good

#

Especially in 2024 where you can draw and stow weapons mad easy

#

And it isn't even an issue for bows

wheat kindle
nova basin
#

Both are not worth 2 ac

#

And you can use defensive duelist with a shield

wheat kindle
wheat kindle
#

With dueling fighting style

nova basin
#

What are you on and where do I get some

#

No heavy weapon synergy, no possible oversize shenanigans

wheat kindle
nova basin
#

And on what Dave was saying, Strength weapons are allowed to hit that hard because it uses a secondary stat

#

Dex influences the most common save in the game, initiative, base and adjusted AC, stealth, lots of non-standard movement

wheat kindle
nova basin
#

Strength is either a dump stat or your primary thing, and doesn't have any defensive capabilities outside if resisting grapples, which you can use dex for anyway

#

Dex is too good to hit the upper half of base damage

wheat kindle
nova basin
#

Probably not too op but outside of balanced design

#

It would be past the band but not gamebreaking, just kinda sucky for other melee builds at your table

wheat kindle
#

Alrighty

nova basin
#

Dude this autocorrect is killing me

true forge
#

tbh, its prob not even that good besides for melee rogues

nova basin
#

It's specifically for a ranger

true forge
#

ah

#

weird

nova basin
#

Yeah idk

#

It feels unnecessary

#

Like its too good but not even in a cool or interesting way

wheat kindle
true forge
#

:D

nova basin
#

It's just an extra average damage that the base game doesn't support

nova basin
wheat kindle
# true forge just play a STR based ranger

I've tried to make some strength based builds. The best one I've seen was reflavouring polearms as very long swords and leaving wis at 13, and choosing hunter subclass

wheat kindle
nova basin
#

Flavor is free and the difference between 1d6 and 1d10 is 2 average damage

true forge
#

that is true

nova basin
#

You're literally fine

wheat kindle
nova basin
#

If you're stressing over that I think you're too concerned with numbers to enjoy the game

true forge
chilly jewel
#

I like optimizing but this isn't significant

wheat kindle
true forge
nova basin
#

Yeah so quit

true forge
#

dnd for fun not for big number go brr

nova basin
#

Or make a build that doesn't stress over specific weapon stats

#

Play a beast barb kensei monk for maximum funny

#

If your dm is cool they let you have the beast claws as your kensei weapons and 5 attacks per turn go brrr

#

Or 6 at level 14 in 2024

wheat kindle
#

I'll probably just stick to strength ranger, my DM doesn't use stuff outside of the 2024 phb except some homebrew

nova basin
#

Then chill with a scimitar and use whatever art you want

true forge
wheat kindle
#

Alright, thanks for the help!

void jewel
#

If big number fun. Do it. But don't do big number if not fun

wheat kindle
void jewel
#

Yeah if you have a specific idea, go for it.

Also bear in mind most chill DMs will allow you to do stuff like pretending a quarterstaff is a sword, using the stat block of a quarterstaff, if you talk to them

#

That's an example because a quarterstaff is the best polearm for PAM because you can hold a shield, so lots of people want a Qstaff but want the "sword" fantasy. However, flavor is free!

wheat kindle
burnt cipher
#

Submariner Ranger Level 11:

Enhancement of the Deep

Your exposure to the great sea has brought you to the depths, which you've adapted to. You gain the following benefits:
You gain Darkvision up to 60 ft (add 30 ft if you already have Darkvision)
You gain Resistance to Bludgeoning Damage
Weapons you wield no longer have Disadvantage underwater
You can cast Water Breathing without expending a Spell Slot once per Long Rest

Jet Slam

When using Tidal Jet, Creatures between your starting position and where you end your movement must make a STR Save. On a Fail, they take Bludgeoning Damage dependant on your current size and are knocked Prone, half on a Success.
Damage by Size:
Tiny - 1d4 -1 (Cannot knock Prone)
Small - 3d4
Medium - 3d6
Large - 3d10
Huge - 4d12 (Advantage)
Gargantuan - 6d12 (Advantage)

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Any thoughts?

tired dagger
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hey guys anyone in chat experienced in homebrew and interested in helping a new DM? im making a new DnD class for my players problem is i have no idea how to scale damage all the features are at like 3d6 2d8 levels of damage and idk how to scale them according to player level to make them viable at higher level play. so to summarize, how does higher level play in dnd look like? how much damage is dealt? what kind of damaging spells are used and how much damage do they deal?

mild cove
tired dagger
mild cove
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Probably 3d8, maybe a bit more if you’re at high levels, as you mentioned (comparing how a level 17 wizard could cast chromatic orb as many times as they want)

tired dagger
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oh wow

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thats.......lower than i thought

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google tells me shit like 2d10

mild cove
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That’s about the same

tired dagger
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4d12

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stuff like that

mild cove
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Honestly, 4d10 sounds better, now that I think about how cantrips scale

ashen ginkgo
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If a feat allowed you to pick one base Infusion, no higher level ones, from Artificer's list and it didn't count towards your infusions known or used in case you're already an Artificer, what would be balance of such a feat ? A strong one, a weak one, just okay ? I know that it will vary based on which infusion you pick

void jewel
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One base infusion isn't nearly worth a feat imo

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Feats are pretty good

tired dagger
mild cove
mild cove
ashen ginkgo
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Would making it a half feat change much ?
Or maybe I just copy the idea of Metamagic Adept entirely

tired dagger
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so if i end at level 12 4d8 damge is good?

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btw do melee weapon damage scale as well?

void jewel
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Melee weapon damage scales with martials getting more attacks.

edgy merlin
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@void jewel

void jewel
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What's up my g

sacred current
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3rd level College of Poetry feature
Ponderous Phrase
Whenever you give a creature a Bardic Inspiration die, you can choose a theme to inspire the creature with. The creature gains an additional benefit of your choice from the options below until it expends the die:

  • Freedom. The creature has advantage on checks and saving throws made against being Grappled or Restrained, and its movement speed increases by 5 feet.
  • Hope. When the creature gains hit points or temporary hitpoints, it can add your Charisma modifier (minimum of 1) to the total.
  • Introspection. When the creature rolls the Bardic Inspiration die, the die size increases by 1 size.
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Is this balanced?

coral delta
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Hope is a little too strong.

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+4 or +5 to every source of healing or THP adds up extremely quickly.

burnt cipher
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Healing would make more sense given there's a cap for it, so I'd go with 1/2 CHA Mod to make sure it doesn't overflow Temp HP.

sacred current
sacred current
burnt cipher
sacred current
burnt cipher
# sacred current EotD - Removing disadvantage on weapons being wielded underwater should be an ea...

Level 3

Tidal Jet

As a Bonus Action, you can create a high pressure blast of water from your hand or foot. You can jet yourself in the other direction 10 ft without triggering Opportunity Attacks. Creatures 5 ft in front of the blast must make a STR Save. On a Fail, they take 1d4 + Prof Mod Bludgeoning Damage and are knocked Prone, half damage on a Success.
At Level 7, this damage increases to 2d4 and you jet yourself 15 ft. At Level 11, 3d4 and 20 ft. At Level 15, 4d4 and 30 ft. You can do this a number of times equal to your Prof Mod per Long Rest.
You don't expend uses while in water at least 5 ft x 5 ft and 1 ft deep.

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Should've added that before

sacred current
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Hm
Looks balanced then, Jet Slam and Tidal Jet

wise berry
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Making an encounter for a a group of three level 5 players (warlock, paladin, druid). There is a secret room they could find within a cave that is covered in Violet Fungus. The opening is wide enough for individuals to squeeze through and it opens to a small (10x60ft) chamber. The chamber is lined with Violet Fungus pumping out gas/spores of some kind (undecided). There is a treasure on the other end. I'd like to design this so it's more of a Deadly Trap that players can decide is worth pursuing or not. I'm having a hard time trying to sort out how the gas/spores should be - contact or inhaled (looking at poisons in the DMG) and what sort of skill/check should be applied to this. And if this is ingested (a gas), I could use the Holding Breath rules. (1 + CON Mod of minutes allowed). Looking for suggestions on how some folks might run this kind of obstacle.

reef badge
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if they take too long (aka exhaustion lvl 6) they die

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could be both too tbh, inhaled is just contact from the inside

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so easier uptake (more skillchecks)

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than if they held their breath

wise berry
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Would you suggest using distance to call for ultiple checks along the way? it's 60ft long and we use grids.

reef badge
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e.g. difficult terrain + looting sth, every turn=1 skillcheck

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also after lvl 4 of exhaustion they actually have disadvantage on the saving throw

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so it gets more deadly if they stay in for a longer time

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if they failed 3 times while going to the chest they will have a hard time getting back unless they expend other resources such as misty step

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and even then its a close call

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if you want it to be easier, just dont make it difficult terrain

wise berry
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The chamber is lined in a sticky fungus. Difficult terrain. They can essentially move to the treasure in 2 increments of 15ft. Each time they move, make a CON S.T. DC 16 (I'll go off the Deadly Trap in DMG). The treasure getting pulled off the corspe will require an extra check as they stand there getting the gear off. Then 2 more checks for the return. Total of 5 checks. Fail they suffer a lvl of exhaustion. If they want to hold their breath, I would say this wouldn't apply because gas can still enter via your eyes and nostrils and I'm not going to get into that? Or would there be a a way to maybe do that.

reef badge
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if you want to be mean: you can also let them roll a D4 to loot the chest (or however many items/things you want to give them) so the more players actually go there the more they get

reef badge
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so just do what you want

reef badge
wise berry
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yeah

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i could do, for holding breath, 1+CON Mod as the number of rounds. it'll take 5 rounds to get there and back. so if they send someone with a lower CON mod they will HAVE to roll at least once then.

reef badge
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also: if you make the exhaustion last until the next rest, it will affect the next steps a LOT

wise berry
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yeah

reef badge
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a slight bonus that might save them

wise berry
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and there's an encounter after this to rescue an NPC - again they could skip this and come back later - but now the gas has creeped through the secret openning and into the previous chamber

reef badge
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like they say: I actually hold my breath

reef badge
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if its a cave, why is it only now that the spores/the gas has built up

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maybe theres actually a little crack in the "treasure chamber" connecting to the outside --> so the spores could actually escpae, just happens that one of the fungi has now grown over it

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or sth clogged it up on the surface

wise berry
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yeah i sort of see it as an area they could return to, but since they hack at the overgrowth containing the gas, the next time they return, it's filled another area of the cave.

wise berry
reef badge
wise berry
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i could just say "no" and move on but im like...maybe there's a means to allow it and properly measure/prepare for that mechanically

reef badge
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so its even more deadly if they dont engage with the info given

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what item/items do you plan to give them here btw?

wise berry
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"yes you can hold your breath for 1+CON Mod minutes. it'll take 5 minutes to go there, get the loot, and come back. the longer you spend out there collecting potential loot, you'll have to roll a CON Save (DC 15) or suffer a level of exhaustion."

reef badge
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maybe give them hints as : you cut down the vines, some purple smoke comes out, it makes you cough uncontrollably or even give the person to discover it 1 lvl of exhaustion in advance

wise berry
# reef badge what item/items do you plan to give them here btw?

i'm not sure yet. it won't be key items - they will meet a mychonid NPC named Chia along the way who asks them to look out for his traveling buddy. I'll describe them as the buddy when the players see through the purple cloud. So they could either recover the fallen traveler's stuff and report back or just say it's too dangerous and let the friend know of the fate"

reef badge
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fair enough

wise berry
wise berry
reef badge
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sure, that also works

wise berry
# reef badge fair enough

this was super helpful to chat through this. it's giving me a much better layout for this encounter.

reef badge
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I just like the risk of the "instakill" aspect and further ramifications

wise berry
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right

reef badge
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you could also just damage them and have them burn spell slots

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lmao