dnd-discussion

[paper portal]

its not on the 2wiz2lock article

[coarse ravine]

Dms saying he is a artificer with +3 armor +3 shield "he has a rod of alertness and etc etc etc"

Giving monsters magic items etc

[paper portal]

but yeah im gonna do my own one of that soon hopefully

[coarse ravine]

Ive never played high level warlock. Now youre wanting me to try it out

[paper portal]

final four PotA dungeons but using a custom level balancing system (call it level 8 ish), no long rests, a short rest between each and a much harder boss at the end of each

[steel moth]

even the average table can clear deadly+

[paper portal]

i love warlocks theyre so awesome

[odd valley]

i have and it was enjoyable

[coarse ravine]

I only got up to level 6

[odd valley]

i’ve hit level 20 before

[paper portal]

i cant wait to see this poor level 8 party have to fight four cr19s in one day lol (theyre probably gonna clear them )

[coarse ravine]

With undead? Or undying whichever is the cooler one I cant remember

[odd valley]

like the 2nd campaign i ever joined

[paper portal]

undead is the cool one

genie is even cooler though trust trust :3

[coarse ravine]

That lets ya do 2d10 for eldritch?

[paper portal]

yep

[coarse ravine]

Yeah undead was cool

[pliant sapphire]

Undying needs a reprint very bad

[coarse ravine]

I wanted to explode with the capstone or 10th lebel feature

[paper portal]

undead was the reprint afaik

[coarse ravine]

But never got to that point

[steel moth]

if i can post gifs I would be posting a gif of a guy ripping off his clothes to reveal an undead warlock shirt underneath

[coarse ravine]

Ive just always said wizard and druids are the best class because shapechangw is a thing. But 140 encounter makes me think differently on a 9th level spell.

Are yall foresighting?

[paper portal]

druids are a pretty close third

[coarse ravine]

Whats the go to

For a 140 encounter day

[paper portal]

this was done at level 10 tho iirc

[odd valley]

truly not being able to post gifs can be both a blessing and a curse at times

[coarse ravine]

Whats the 9th level spell

[paper portal]

here let me just post the article for you tbh

https://formofdread.wordpress.com/2025/09/09/2wiz2lock-an-optimized-party/

it doesnt really mention the challenge but this is what he used

[coarse ravine]

I guess you can only say bard because their 18th level ability also exists but.. not to wizard and druid level

[coarse ravine]

So it was undead?

[steel moth]

imo warlock is a close third to druid tbh

[coarse ravine]

Ive always said
Wizard
Druid
Cleric
Paladin (cause aura is amazing)
Bard (only cause they have access to shapechange)

But yall got me wanting to replace bard with warlock

Ive just been saved wayyy too many times by a paladin aura to count to not still put them in my top 5

My only warlock ever was the right choice lol

[odd valley]

there’s actually a solid number of decent warlock patrons at least in 2014

[coarse ravine]

I still didn't know how to optimize it. I like casting a variety of spells and being very versatile. Thats why I like druid specifically wildfire druid. Being able to cast spells from different points with the level 6 ability makes you very versatile.

[coarse ravine]

I need a starter pack for warlock spells

Yes this could be optimize channel but like 2 starter kits

[paper portal]

yeah genie and undead are the really good ones but theres also like fathomless fiend and at least 3 others im forgetting

[odd valley]

hexblades always a nice dip sub

[paper portal]

yeah aop is weird cus the more you optimize the better it gets until a certain point where it falls off big time, kinda similar to clerics with that tbh

[coarse ravine]

For sure if ya dont plan on going Godmode paladin level 20 for 1 minute.

[odd valley]

and i’m tempted to say maybe celestial lock but idk

[coarse ravine]

I mean some very high dcs late game

Along with bless ability then high dcs you are adding 1d4 +5 to saving throws

They have been party savers alot of times

Turns your con save from a +11 to a potential +20

• not everybody's good at dex saves

I always invest in con. So thats never been a issue

But Dex saves yeah... paladins have saved me on

[steel moth]

your paladin friends make good simulacrums

pocket friend

carry them aroumd for your saves

[coarse ravine]

Too much dm control with wish. Id prolly just go true poly

[viral kraken]

you can do a lot with wish without getting dm fiat involved. it being literally any level 8 or lower spell is intense in my opinion

[coarse ravine]

"Be careful what you wish for" fine I won't wish at all.

[paper portal]

hi chat im trying to figure out how to build a character what did i miss

[viral kraken]

run, the optimizers are loose

[paper portal]

yeah i am the optimizers :3

[viral kraken]

nooooooo!!!!!

[paper portal]

we're gonna force you to play strong characters sorry buddy /silly

[severe rampart]

But I want to play my very weak character!

[viral kraken]

i hear that with my character building style, my characters are definitionally 0/6 and i could not be happier

[paper portal]

nope too bad you're gonna play a wizard and you're gonna like it

[severe rampart]

Yay I get to be weaker /j

[paper portal]

i mean in the sense that you'll have a low strength stat i guess

but thats cus strength is weak

[severe rampart]

If strength is weak, what is the opposite of strength

[steel moth]

dex

[sturdy tusk]

Intelligence

Or Charisma

[paper portal]

con i guess cus thats the strongest stat

[severe rampart]

Int is useless for non-int casters

[viral kraken]

anti-strength clearly

[sturdy tusk]

-# Opposite of Dex is like Wis

[sturdy tusk]

Complete Opposite of Dex

[steel moth]

dont let them know you levelled dex

[sturdy tusk]

Str*

[steel moth]

twink exposed

[severe rampart]

Charisma is the best stat, truly :)

[paper portal]

nah theyre both major saves clearly cant be opposites :3

[paper portal]

(2nd weakest )

[limber trail]

weakness

[coarse ravine]

I mean loot is loot. Some dms dont just hand it to ya. You have to "investigate"

I just wanta use my perception rolls 🥲

[sturdy tusk]

Mmm

[limber trail]

The strength and weakness of certain stats does ultimately partially come from DM style and the rolls that they call. I call for a ton of charisma checks. It's pretty important in my games

[sturdy tusk]

Looks at Warlocks and Sorcerers

[severe rampart]

The wizard can do that, I don't want no int

[severe rampart]

Coughs, and Bards

[paper portal]

using a bad stat doesnt mean a bad class

[sturdy tusk]

Mmm, I agree

[paper portal]

otherwise monks would be strong

[severe rampart]

Monks are strong, usually

[coarse ravine]

Oddly I've ran some encounters i thought would tpk my party. Then the monk stuns them over and over again

[severe rampart]

My monk will either hate the encounter that I built or love it

[coarse ravine]

Only when they nail their stuns

[limber trail]

Monks are very strong

[paper portal]

thats what no attrition does to a party lol

[severe rampart]

All skeletons, so his unarmed strikes are double damage, but he's vulnerable to fire, which the skeletons have access to...

[paper portal]

from a combat standpoint monk is the weakest class outside of a specific couple of builds

[coarse ravine]

Nah i just thought that party was weak

They had already been swallowed etc

[severe rampart]

I might accidentally TPK my party if I'm not careful

[coarse ravine]

Monk comes in stuns some guys and encounter became easy

[severe rampart]

5 players of level 3 vs Cr 2,Cr3, Cr4, and 8 cr 1/4ths in one encounter, somewhat deadly, but fun

[paper portal]

shadow cbe is the best pure martial though tbh

[coarse ravine]

They live and die on that stun role imo

They can absolutely be the mvp and absolutely be the "why are you here again"

[steel moth]

nah it's antimatter rifle

[severe rampart]

Hopefully what you're saying is true and my party doesn't croak before reaching level 4

[steel moth]

[coarse ravine]

Level 5 is stun i think

[paper portal]

well i am working on a build with that but its not one thats normally legal considering its gonna be level ~50

[limber trail]

Monks are much more fun in 2024 anyhow. They get the Most Improved award.

[severe rampart]

Uh oh

My encounter might be deadly

[coarse ravine]

Its ok party should be more optimized

My moon druid has carried so many encounters

[severe rampart]

They're mostly new players

[coarse ravine]

Its ok....

[severe rampart]

I nearly ripped the sorcerer in half like two sessions ago

[coarse ravine]

Cant tell ya how many stones Ive had to greater restorate lol

[limber trail]

Numerically it's fine, near enough their XP budget. It's a hard encounter.

[coarse ravine]

People like to not invest in con and I dont get it lol

Im like your gonna get poisoned or worse turn into a statue

[severe rampart]

Dwindling their resources too with a werewolf and some Strahd zombies at the start

[limber trail]

might be a bit tough then

[coarse ravine]

Do they havw magic weapons?

[severe rampart]

I mean, if one of them die, it is what it is, I'm not looking to kill them

[coarse ravine]

Or ways to deal with a werewolf?

[severe rampart]

Sorcerer has a +1 silvered shortsword

and there's 3 spellcasters

[coarse ravine]

Just depends on what those crs are

Banshee is a cr4.... depending on saves can whipe out a party

[severe rampart]

Custom Monsters

Because Skeletons don't have enough creatures

[coarse ravine]

So its undead theme?

[severe rampart]

Skeleton Army theme, yes

It's the Skeleton Rider encounter in CoS, but I felt like it was too easy...

so I bumped it up to 11

[coarse ravine]

Give them a npc that tells them "whatever you do. Dont go to this etc"

Then put a banshee behind that thing if they choose to go to it

[severe rampart]

They have to go there it's the road to the next town

[coarse ravine]

Ive done that......

Only 1 player failed not bad

[coarse ravine]

Im saying a different thing they dont havw to do

But npc says dont do it.

[severe rampart]

If they do get too roughed up I'll get wereravens to come and save them

[coarse ravine]

Like a black door thats chained. Or some sort of smaller building idk

[charred panther]

Is there any way to counteract Suggestion in general?

Only to prevent it (pass the save or not being able to hear) or fulfill the suggestion?

[severe rampart]

Fulfill it like a monkey's paw maybe?

If the suggestion was too loose and non-specific

[coarse ravine]

Treat it like wish

Find something to tug on

[charred panther]

It's in "to not get it" realm, I wonder what to do if you already have been affected

Party got Suggested by a group of yuan-ti who could do it like three times each every turn

[coarse ravine]

Hm?

Each turn or each round?

[charred panther]

Probably round
I don't know monster statblocks but we had 6 people party and 3 yuan-ti, and each of us rolled three saves in a row every round, I think

It was 2014 version, but it felt kind of.. off, I think?..

Now that I think of it the reason it felt so bad is probably cause it demands concentration, and mathematically "three people cast suggestion" doesn't align with "six people got suggested"

[exotic sinew]

I have a problem.

Maybe more in the terms I am the problem.

How do I have a serious campaign. How do I make my character serious.

[charred panther]

Imagine everything that's happening is not a game and make your choices not by entertainment value, but a survival one

[rotund abyss]

So one of our players can't come to the campaign finale, and campaign 2 is only weeks away

We have no choice but to play without him

[burnt grove]

So a potential campaign I’m joining is giving me massive red flags.. like severe red flags and I’m hoping it’s just all made up stories cus otherwise I’m gonna have to leave before session one lol

[charred panther]

Based on my current experience
Run

[feral fulcrum]

If you sense multiple big flags, bow out rather then risking it.

Trust your gut.

[burnt grove]

Yea.. perhaps.. they’re talking about slaying krakens.. killing everyone in a castle with ball bearings.. and getting plus three weapons at level 6.. just for starters

[feral fulcrum]

No d&d is better then bad D&D

[lyric viper]

A lot of things can be solved via communication, but you also need to judge whether it's worth your safety and time to resolve in some issues.

Sound like this one might be a bit more of a minor playstyle issue?

[burnt grove]

It’s not safety I’m concern with but yea

It is lol

[charred panther]

Yeah
Run x2

[jade spade]

I agree, I had a very toxic sexist player and trying to "work" with his behaviour made me hate DnD for a while.
People are sometimes just not your kind of game and its ok to walk away fro that.

[burnt grove]

Yea i probably should just walk and mute them.. I just don’t know if I’d feel like the game matters ya know

Like…

[reef tundra]

Many people have said it, but finding a group in dnd is like dating

[burnt grove]

Then I have failed.. The last 6 groups lol

[reef tundra]

Some people are awful, some people are amazing, you need to draw boundaries for yourself and play in a way that you and the other players are comfortable with

Communication is also very important

Such as communication of those boundaries

[jade spade]

you need chemistry and understanding for doing such a collaborative thing together

[reef tundra]

And sometimes, there are just groups and people that aren’t worth it and you should leave

That’s why recently I’ve only been playing campaigns with people I am or have become friends with

[burnt grove]

Yea I left after giving the recruiter a nicely worded departure

[charred panther]

Sometimes it's just not worth it, to spend this much time and effort for fun with people you will not have fun with

[jade spade]

Something to learn about this stuff is to not be a pushover and let people do whatever they want if it bothers you. If the majority is a certain way, do leave yourself, but if you are the GM or the majority isn't acting in that bothersome way its better to say something

[kind torrent]

I got 2 really good friends that play D&D and I always have them in my games

If someone new is uhh... unkind, to put it mildly, having majority rule always helps

[burnt grove]

Oh new topic

By the way is winter walker ranger good?

Thank you for your help tho guys *-^

And girls

[reef tundra]

I’ve been enjoying it, but I’m not certain from an optimiser perspective

-# And I wouldn’t have it any other way

[feral fulcrum]

It's okay, but I think the spooky Ranger's probably better.

[pliant sapphire]

Has a nice sinergy with cold caster feat

[burnt grove]

I’m debating if I wanna play a Hexblood loxofon or kobold ranger Spooky Ranger?

[jade spade]

I like ranger, its my main class but I have yet to play with the 2024 rules

[burnt grove]

And can you be more explanatory plz?

[feral fulcrum]

I'm very partial to Fey Wanderer

[reef tundra]

Ranger sister!

Although I prefer 5.5e Ranger, I still love the old 5e ranger

It had my heart from the beginning

[kind torrent]

I should try Ranger sometime

What subclass do y'all play?

[feral fulcrum]

5.5e Ranger isn't that different from Tasha's, just more condensed, with added, weird focus on Hunters Mark

[jade spade]

I only prefer to just homebrew make it so hunter's mark doesn't need concentration

[burnt grove]

Been thinking about beast master or Winter walker of the 3 which is better?

[reef tundra]

I believe Winter Walker

[burnt grove]

Sorry 2 typo

[jade spade]

I'm a huge fan of Gloom stalker, its like beign batman tbh

[charred panther]

Right now I'm stuck in vicios cicle in the campaign of "I don't like what DM is doing - I vent to my friend - I want to leave table, but I dont for the sake of playing with my friend - I'm trying to voice my opinion to the DM in a most careful way possible so the problem won't arise in the future - it does anyway"

And when you at a point when the correct answer was to "leave long time ago", you stuck with all the less correct ones xD

[feral fulcrum]

Beast Master is still fairly crappy even with the buffs and changes

[burnt grove]

Thank u

[feral fulcrum]

Pet subclasses just don't shine very well

The one exception is probably Purple Dragon Knight, but that's because it's AOE and attack focused on a Fighter

[jade spade]

I think a big flaw of the ranger is that a lot of people think it should be the pet class when I personally think ranger should be a somewhat of a tactician class but thats just me

[burnt grove]

I was debating between a Loxodon a kobold and a Hexblood Ranger

Unsure what I should pick lol

[feral fulcrum]

Roll for it

When you're uncertain, the old reliable RNG helps settle things

[reef tundra]

No same! I see them as masters of the wild and tactical hunting

[burnt grove]

Loxodon winter walker like a wooly mammoth sounds nice, the scout potential of Hexblood is great? And kobold shout is great lol

And love kobolds and hex

[reef tundra]

Where Druids exist with nature, rangers battle with nature

But yeah that’s just me and how I see them. I know others see it very differently

[burnt grove]

Druids exist on a spiritual basis with nature itself, Rangers battle the physical world to protect nature from man

[lost flicker]

I'm creating a revised Arcane Archer subclass more akin to the Alchemist Artificer mechanically

What are some things that any of y'all who have tried the Arcane Archer subclass think is lacking about the subclass that I can take into consideration during my revise?

[jade spade]

I actually think the fact that Blood hunter was made as a homebrew class as a sign that people want to be the cool hunter but the ranger just doesn't let that be. I wanna play the Witcher!

[reef tundra]

Geralt the goat I love him

[kind torrent]

Blood Hunter is cool if you sand the edginess off

[reef tundra]

I like making them even edgier >:)

-# I am just a sucker for the edginess

[feral fulcrum]

Insert shadow the edgehog meme here.

[reef tundra]

-# My favourite paladin subclass is path of vengeance, what else can be expected of me

[kind torrent]

I like doing the good old fashioned "Blood hunter who gets sick when he sees blood"

[jade spade]

I like ranger so much that when I went to homebrew my own game it was the most important class for me to have.

[feral fulcrum]

Hrm, that reminds me, I can grant Warlock Pacts (Specifficaly Pact of the Tome) now in my Saturday game. Awakened Hamster based on Teddy Rosevelt, or cool stab happy Tabaxi Cleric of Pelor... choices choices.

[glass granite]

-# yooo same, oath of the crown close behind

[valid gate]

So 50 Rifflers (15 AC, 90 HP) that reduce the parties Initiative to effectively 0

Then 5 Orcus's can summon 13 Szass Tams (assuming we're using the Death of Szass Tam statblock which is a little weak IMO)

And we age rapidly in the space.

I can only speak for my Wizard but between her Boon of Immortality, three 9th level slots (High Magic, Cartomancy), among other shenanigans like a Contingency Buff-Box Demiplane, her Bastion, her Simulacrum, Wish resistance to Necrotic, Force, Radiant, and Psychic damage, resistance to Damage from Spells (Abjuration), and being able to True Polymorph into things like a Kolyarut, Spirit Dragon, Ogermoch, seems like a fair fight

[feral fulcrum]

I feel like Oath of the Crown has great potential, but a flaming dumpster fire of a Capstone, which...is normal for Paladins

[valid gate]

Oh I was just reading his statblock, damn, that's pretty wild!

Gotta use that at some point now XD

[jade spade]

Off topic a little but one pattern I notice is that some of the classic core races don't get used by players I meet as often as the other more out there races. Anybody got thoughts on that?
Specifically that I rarely meet players who play as humans, dwarves, halflings, and gnomes. Elves I see though

[valid gate]

I kinda wish it was 500 HP worth of undead, because it let you mix and match more if you had it

It's wild that Spirit Dragons have a better Time Breath than Time Dragons XD

I wanna do an encounter with one of each as a big reference to the room of spirit and time from DBZ

https://klipy.com/gifs/piccolo-emerges-from-time-chamber-dragon-ball

[feral fulcrum]

Humans I get because they're fairly boring (At least to me), Dwarves I also get because their racial feats are not that interesting except in 2024, and are kinda just pidgeonholed into the same stereotype that's been done a thousand times before, Gnomes I'm pretty sure everyone just forgets, and as for Halflings I think most people prefer other, more interesting small Races, either for mechanical reasons, or because flavor.

[feral fulcrum]

Big Green remains the king of Drip and Aura farming.

[jade spade]

I guess its lack of incentive or interesting features for the most of them.

[feral fulcrum]

Yeah, though in the case of Humans the Extra Feat is juicy, but not juicy enough for me to give up all the flavor and fluff, or neat mechanics I could chase in any other species.

[glass granite]

Odd, I get a lot of humans

[charred panther]

I think it comes to "as whom people want to imagine themselves as"

The innate interest in classic races, that made them feel foreign and interesting, ran out a long time ago, and more people like to imagine themselves as elves then other options

But theres always some fans. I know a lot of dwarves fans xD

[jade spade]

I myself love dwarves. Though I play humans more often

[charred panther]

Yeah, a lot of my friends are like that. But in general its somewhat rare

[paper portal]

that does explain why thri kreen is my favourite race

[charred panther]

I myself don't like the flavor, cause I'm an extremely visual person and if I don't like race esthetics I don't want to play it xD

[charred panther]

They look fun!

[undone rain]

They are some silly lil guys

[glass granite]

My favourite race is probably Aasimar or human. Probably human

[undone rain]

Heres a good question, where do paladins swear their oaths. I mean you cant just do it all willy nilly right?

[glass granite]

You can do it anywhere

[paper portal]

boooooooring

[glass granite]

But you need the conviction to back it up

[glass granite]

I like characters that I can easily visualise in my head, so human characters (combined with a free feat) were an easy choice for me :D

[turbid fern]

Greetings.
A NPC Arakocra is captured by humanoids. How would you restrain them from flying in a reversible way, while allowing them to walk around? Preferably physical mean rather than magic.

[undone rain]

Thought you needed to do it in a church or an order of paladin but alr

[glass granite]

Bind their wings with rope or chain.

[undone rain]

Altough i personally like to have em swear their oaths around an order of paladins or a temple for a deity for flavor

[glad arch]

You can swear an oath to yourself if youre convicted enough

[turbid fern]

Like Inigo Montoya indeed

[still plover]

I might even have it as an outgrowth of a person's own character. It doesn't need to be formal at all.

They're just like that. And have the paladin feature set.

[steel moth]

I like reborn because I am a fan of the souls games

[reef tundra]

I like reborn because I can play as general grievous

Yeah, warforged could work but I like reborn more

[glass granite]

I like reborn cuz they cool

[glad arch]

Hello there

[reef tundra]

Also I can play Frankenstein’s monster

[still plover]

Captain Carrot Ironfounderson, Devotion Paladin. Tell me you can't see it.

(Although he did swear an oath when he joined the Watch, in private and to himself. But that's because all watchmen must be sworn in.)

[feral fulcrum]

At that point why not jsut used Tabaxi?

[paper portal]

custom lineage is stronger? idk

[feral fulcrum]

Pretty sure it's not.

[paper portal]

if you say so

[steel moth]

brazy take

[paper portal]

yeah but mods dont want us to argue about this stuff outside of optimization so im not gonna say anything lol

[glass granite]

Custom lineage is a free feat, I’d say it’s stronger

[valid gate]

I do have a gravity room with a big dodecahedron shaped map in my most recent Adventure (Black, Red, & White)

Is there a channle where I can post pictures?

I have the printer-friendly version of the module open at the moment while I print my handouts

[paper portal]

thats true too but arguing is fun at least

[worn lagoon]

i like variant human :3

[paper portal]

erm dont you know variant human is just outright worse than custom lineage /silly

[worn lagoon]

I actually had no idea, what's the difference?

[paper portal]

variant human gets a +1/+1 whereas cl gets a +2 and darkvision

[worn lagoon]

That's... interesting.

[paper portal]

#dnd-arts-and-crafts yeah

[undone rain]

Sucks that i cant draw but atleast i have heroforge

Cant do much cool stuff visually but i can atleast design my character

[still plover]

Got any video games with customisable characters?

[undone rain]

Skyrim or bg3

[still plover]

Could use one of them.

[short brook]

they help a lot

especially if you're able to mod them

[jade spade]

having a player who can do art can be useful. Not really reliable and reasonable but it is a blessing to have artistic players

[short brook]

fo sure

[undone rain]

I would ask friends who can but i dont really like askin for favors so

[jade spade]

as an artist being a dm is really hard cause I wanna make sure every NPC has at least some level of depiction and then spiral into just absolutely getting lost in that

Especially when the PCs don't meet said NPCs it make me sad a little

[undone rain]

I get ya, i mean i cant draw but a shame since you worked on it

[jade spade]

yeah I was running Tomb of Annihilation and drew so many of the named NPCs that didn't have proper visuals as well as the ones that did just to have a consistent style.
The game ended when a player pushed me too far that I quit dming it.

[short brook]

damn, i'm sorry to hear that. Never played Tomb of Annihilation, heard its fun

[worn lagoon]

The player pushed you how

Did they expect you to draw every npc?

[tame saffron]

Has anyone ever tried making a barbarian that uses guns and hand to hand?

[feral fulcrum]

Uarnmed, probably plenty, since it defaults to Strength, Guns, probably not as that's Dex, and doesn't really fit with Barbarians fantasy

[worn lagoon]

barbs don't use mental stats much aside from saves so you could be good at str/dex/con. i think you generally should.

[jade spade]

they kept asking for powerful items, kept not going into the jungle to actually advance the plot. I gave him magical items to try to let him have something but he kept wanting more. He called me bad things for saying "not all drows are evil" and that I was playing favorites for "not being racist to the Drow PC"
The final draw was him wanting to do the "bag of holding inside a bag of holding" thing.

[tame saffron]

I just thought it'd be a fun thing to throw at my players as an npc they meet. A female barbarian tabaxi race reflavored as a canine version but retaining the racial feats of the tabaxi.

So now its a werewolf, whos lightly clothed. And has nothing besides a Greatsword and a shotgun.

[worn lagoon]

That sure sounds fun, wow.

[feral fulcrum]

You want to play a guy with guns, you're looking at nearly any other class. Barbarian is here rock the Godfrey "I have given thee, courtesy enough. NOW I FIGHT AS HOURAH LOUX!" Lifestyle

[paper portal]

guns dont use strength so you miss out on most of your barbarian features, ive seen unarmed before though

[tame saffron]

Im not looking for synergy, im looking for roleplay flavor and plot hooks.

[jade spade]

drawing every NPC would have been at least fun creatively at least.

[paper portal]

flavour is free

[worn lagoon]

sucks when one player ruins an entire campaign. happens too often.

[jade spade]

it was two. Another one was also racist but he was the most passive player I never noticed his problems

[tame saffron]

Ah the classic youtube black hole manifestation... i dont blame you for halting the campaign. Its rough dealing with those types of players. Was this amongst friends? Or strangers at a tcg?

[feral fulcrum]

Big oof.

[jade spade]

friends but not really friends. I never spent time with them outside games and they never talked to me about anything besides the games

[feral fulcrum]

The two biggest killers of D&D games, actively intolerable jerks, and overly passive players that just...don't contribute.

[paper portal]

its always weird when the problematic player isnt the problem one

[tame saffron]

Agreed

[jade spade]

yes. well that game is over. I did find another group to run the campaign for luckily

[tame saffron]

Thats always good news!

[short brook]

Thats good news

[tame saffron]

Finished my one shot build. I can now one shot a god in around 1 of 8 attacks.

[feral fulcrum]

I'm lucky that my only campaign (I've only been in two) that's been bad, was purely just to me not clicking with multiple players, with a side order of passivity.

[tame saffron]

Rhe one shot is not a pc. Its a legendary npc my players will meet later on.

[jade spade]

chemistry between players is important

[tame saffron]

Incredibly important.

[short brook]

I gotcha, sometimes i'm a bit of anxious smuck so I find myself being a little bit more of a passive player but I try to engage with what's in front of me at least

[paper portal]

thats why i flirt with everyone at my table /silly

[tame saffron]

Lmfao

Hey if it works it works

[mental patrol]

[normal junco]

I've made puppets for the PCs to encourage them to role play. It had pretty good success

[feral fulcrum]

One was an extreme extrovert that swapped to a rather...problematic idiot Artificer who got themselves into trouble constanlty and needed 24/7 babysitting, and the other was "And the award for Worst Father of the Century Award goes to this guy!" Who, unintentionally kept eating up the spotlight and hyperfixating on things the rest of the group didn't really want to engage with. And despite numerous bits of advice, and some active retconing, still kept poking the nerves of a Fey Lady and causing problems in the Feywild.

[paper portal]

hi silly kitty

[mental patrol]

Oh hello!

[worn lagoon]

Like, real life racist or "ingame racist in an unfun way"?

[feral fulcrum]

Coupled with some late game attendency issues with the Artificer player that just sucked aaaaallll my desire to keep playing with that group as the DM brought the game to a close with a semi-rushed plot wrap up

[paper portal]

i enjoy the dancing cat :3

[paper portal]

a lot of the time theyre the same thing

[worn lagoon]

I wouldn't generalize. Some people just don't know how to roleplay the latter in a way that's interesting.

[feral fulcrum]

Yeaaaah, anyone who's enthusiastic about wanting to Specifficaly enagage in fantasy racism, is, generally, almost certainly an actual racist.

[tame saffron]

Accidentally let a curse slip through the last message i was muted. Oopsies.

[paper portal]

yeah im aussie so i swear like a sailor in other servers

[worn lagoon]

Generalization is a slippery slope so I'd rather avoid it when I can. Fair enough though.

[tame saffron]

Ugh i wish i never started 5 campaigns...

[short brook]

Including racism in dnd always feel weird to me.

[paper portal]

im only in one rn with another starting soon and ill probably end up dming some at some point

[worn lagoon]

I've definitely seen it played out in a way that added depth to the world or characters

[paper portal]

ooh i should get the cool looking role for myself

sweet

[worn lagoon]

You just have to write it carefully and it has to be okay with everyone

[tame saffron]

Tuesdays i have a learn to play at a game store, thursdays i run my main campaign, fridays i run another at a friends and sundays my players and i take turns doing one shots. So 4.

[worn lagoon]

Same goes for darker things in general

[short brook]

I wish I could play this much

Though DMing is another story

[normal junco]

If I could DM as a full time job, I would.

[tame saffron]

I havent had a job in six months since moving from colorado, im dming as a job.

[paper portal]

fantasy racism is fine its the people who play it as a major (and endearing) part of their character who are almost always a problem

[worn lagoon]

yeah i can agree with that

[short brook]

That makes sense

[worn lagoon]

except for like gith, its a major and endearing part of lae'zel

and i love her so

[jade spade]

never really figured it out but I want to assume the latter

[worn lagoon]

it was funny watching her develop from that to (spoilers)

[paper portal]

i havent played bg3 so i wouldnt know tbh

[feral fulcrum]

Lae'Zel is a delightful little speckled ball of hate

[tame saffron]

Its not worth the hype personally. Its very repetitive. And max level is 12th unless they finally raised the level cap.

[worn lagoon]

nonspoiler tldr; she starts out viewing faerunians as just as inferior as the rest of her people does, but can potentially warm up to them

[glad arch]

Stares over at watcher paladin 👀

[worn lagoon]

lae'zel is fantasy racism done right

[jade spade]

I like when some species are seen in a bad light if its part of the player's story to be "a hated monster" or "defying the steroetype". Like Dritzz

[feral fulcrum]

And double fair, she has every reason to be grumpy. She's got her peoples archenemy nibbling at her brain meat

[jade spade]

same with Lae'zel too ngl, she is from a group that was taught to hate. not an inherently bad thing
nature and nurture are major parts of a character

[lyric viper]

I worry that sometimes fits into 'one of the good ones' and ends up reinforcing the issue instead of challenging it.

Like 'Oh it's actually fine to be racist against X, (individual) is just an outlier'

[flint ledge]

I do enjoy characters who at the beginning are racist but over time start changing as they realize "Hey these guys aren't bad after all"

[jade spade]

An Elf who was told humans are short lived and thus insignificant feeling bad at treating humans badly or something can be good for a character

[tall forge]

I have enough irl racism, i want my escapist fantasy game 😔

[feral fulcrum]

I honestly think it's a shame that we haven't gotten much to do with the Gith in 5E

[worn lagoon]

I once played a half-dragon who took great offense to the party's dragonborn mistaking him for another of his kind and calling him scalefriend, it was nice making them warm up to each other over time.

[jade spade]

yeah it should never be "one of the good guys" situation. It always is better if its "you should change your perspective"

[feral fulcrum]

Where's my Kung-Fu Psychics in cool floating fortresses in exotic locales 🙁

[lyric viper]

While redemption and challenging an issue can be interesting, it can also be pretty exhausting to deal with in a game. Especially if the player ends up putting the onus of their character challenging their own bigotry on other PCs. If you're going to do that story you have to be the one to make the change happen.

[worn lagoon]

He grew past his superiority complex

the dragonborn player also made it happen by caring about the little turd when he was mean to his fighter

[short brook]

thats pretty cool

[jade spade]

it needs to be something that is decided on before the game imho. So that it can be worked on properly though in a game with multiple players that cannot be the focus of the game. It should be a background character arch imho

[worn lagoon]

yeah you gotta sort this out with friends beforehand, ours was planned somewhat

[worn lagoon]

my man went outside during CoS and the ek/dragonborn followed him to make sure he's safe, it was sweet

[lyric viper]

I admittedly have bad experiences with players saying their character will start off rough but will change.. and then never changing. And the argument being 'Well he's not going to change quickly and he's not really been challenged'.

That's nice to know our mere existence and journey is not reason enough to challenge, now we've all agreed that the bigoted PC should leave the party.

[short brook]

homies for sure, so you did end up becoming scalefriends 🙂

[worn lagoon]

still shakes a little bit when you call him that but yes, scalefriends

[lyric viper]

I have enough to deal with IRL, I do not then need to spend my game time arguing with your fantasy PC about this too and then being told 'It's not enough'.

[jade spade]

Its why I almost always make pretty basic characters (as a player) and let them become deeper with the plot. Starting off in a certain arch in mind can be hard

[tame saffron]

That reminds me of my cleric, Mr. Bumbleflower. Hes an aasimar but hides his lineage. He tends to the ill of poorer villages and does not charge for his services. Hes a father of three, trying to give them the best life he can while helping others. His family disregarded human life and he did not like that so he ran away and began acting as a doctor to extremely poor towns, villages etc.

Hes a teddybear... until he sees a child get harmed. Thats when his radiant soul ignites. And he becomes the hand of the blade. Instead of the gentle doctor.

[worn lagoon]

That's unfortunate that that happened to you, but it's also unwise of them to try to make a "deep" character in a party of people that they weren't familiar enough to be onboard with it.

deep with many quotation marks

[lyric viper]

I've known him for 10 years.

[worn lagoon]

oh

[short brook]

ah

[worn lagoon]

Welp, then that was just poorly executed in general with no easy excuse.

[jade spade]

thats a cool concept. Love a parent (I been playing a mom for a while)

[short brook]

I just don't like creating friction between members so racism is almost always not on my character traits

[worn lagoon]

I only make characters that will likely have their worldviews challenged when i'm playing among friends i can trust will enjoy and work well with it

Strangers get ankle-deep characters until we get along enough for me to work the writing muscles

[tame saffron]

I just recently started the parental concept as a character. To this day, hes probably my favorite character ive made.

[short brook]

I just can't write very well 🥲

[worn lagoon]

Don't beat yourself up, I'm sure you're good

[short brook]

It's all generic fantasy tropes but I like it 👍

[worn lagoon]

that's what matters

[lyric viper]

Unfortunately, yep. It was a rocky moment and he has now been banned from playing any concept in that line. But it has made me skepticle of handling other PCs of similar lines. I know it can be done, but that it's still rough and not what I enjoy in a game. Similarily it's this issue of either PCs have to call out the bigotted one, potentially going into party conflict, RPIng out things you have to put up in RL too, or you just.. let it slide for the sake of game flow and party cohesion which feels bad too.

There has to be a guaranteed catharsism to it.

[worn lagoon]

I actually like in-party friction so long as there's no friction ooc.

[jade spade]

I saw this one tiktok edit about having a daughter. It was really emotional to me.

[worn lagoon]

I like arguing in-character a lot, or the party being begrudgingly held together by the circumstances despite not getting along. They're forced to come to terms with whatever's causing the friction, and both times it happened the party was mature enough that it was fun.

[short brook]

Its cool when it happens organically and its not hamfisted

[lyric viper]

I actually really agree with this, but also one of those 'it takes knowing your group' which feels like a given, but it can be really easy to accidently rock the party boat too much even if you all OOCly are having a great time.
But party members disagreeing, having strong stances, arguing, compromising, (maybe no compromising) makes it a lot more interesting.

[worn lagoon]

The scalefriend thing was not scripted, I just remembered the half-dragon abazigal taking offense to it and figured it fit him. The dragonborn player enjoyed it too though.

We just knew each other well enough that in that one instance, I didn't need to ask him beforehand, and it wasn't such a huge fuss that it threatened the campaign.

[jade spade]

I love escapism so much. I spend most of my free time thinking about dnd and other such fantasy stuff. Mostly making my own things though thats more homebrew stuff

[restive blade]

Could someone help me out for a bit? In my campaign I have a weapon that lets me make a weapon attack as a reaction if I fall below 25%, but it also grants me extra once per turn damage bonuses, can I apply these bonuses (if conditions are met) if I make a attack on my enemies turn?

Same with opportunity attack

[tame saffron]

I feel that, i mostly wanted to make a character whod stick around after the battles.

He carries the sleepytime sheep stuffy to give to children who cant fall asleep due to illness, pain, or injury. As well as beads of sustenance and refreshment for emergency nourishment. He is after all, just a humble doctor. Would you like to see his backstory?

[worn lagoon]

Ask whoever designed/homebrewed the weapon, I don't think any of us could give you THE answer.

[restive blade]

Fair enough

[tame saffron]

That depends are both requirements a reaction?

[worn lagoon]

Opinions/guesses maybe but not the final answer

[jade spade]

sure thing!

[short brook]

Same

[tame saffron]

Do you mind if i dm you? I dont wish to flood the chat

[restive blade]

The extra damage are for: if enemy is large or bigger do 1d6 extra damage once per turn

And if you have advantage deal 2d6 once per turn.

[jade spade]

go ahead darling

[tame saffron]

Homebrew im assuming?

[restive blade]

Yeah

They’re passive effects, but the wording should have the same ruling as sneak attack right? You can sneak attack on a opportunity attack

Yeah it’s worded once per turn not once per round

So all the bonuses should apply on a reaction attack

[tame saffron]

@restive blade

Then as long as you have advantage. Then yes. But does the weapon itself have a reaction ability? If not you could use a reaction for specific iterations of an action. Like if an enemy attacks my friend ill use my reaction to.... and then say what you wish to do. If you have a reaction that gives you another attack. Like orcish fury after relentless endurance is triggered.

[normal junco]

I must be tired, misread that as ostrich fury.

[tame saffron]

I havent slept in two days i understand man.

[restive blade]

Yeah the reaction is to make a weapon attack if I fall below 25. I basically just get an opportunity attack if I’m 25%

[paper portal]

hi chat whats up

[tame saffron]

Then yeah it would work as long as the enemy is large, you have advantage and meet 25% hp threshold it would stack together.

[restive blade]

Awesome, thanks. I’m making a ‘if X happens do/apply Y.’ So I don’t sit 50 minutes staring at my sheet lol

[normal junco]

Hmmm... I don't know how much use I'll get out of dndbeyond/D&D once it rolls around to just being an online only subscription based service.

[tame saffron]

Is that actually happening?

[normal junco]

Kinda. But to what extent I have no idea. They're just going all in on prioritizing digital over physical.

[restive blade]

I think that just means they’re doing digital books first and then making physical books? I could be wrong though-

[normal junco]

It would make sense to limit physical to print on demand, that would really simplify distribution. They wouldn't need giant warehouses to hold books and ship to distributors.

But that's just my thought. No reality in that

[buoyant oar]

Well I get where you're coming from on that and I have no data to back this up. I would bet you that D&D Beyond is still the minority in the way that people play the game.

[normal junco]

The current game.

[tame saffron]

I agree, the amount of players i ask if they use dnd beyond. Maybe 1 in 5 use the app.

[limber trail]

I would be surprised if they moved away from books. It feels like shooting themselves in the foot with what their audience is and the way people play the game

[buoyant oar]

Dungeons & Dragons is too intrinsic to the tabletop setting I think. It's not like a video game where having a disc means actually nothing. The core experience is sitting around a table. And books are the primary way to do that

[normal junco]

Any new players I've spoken to or dealt with use the app almost exclusively.

[buoyant oar]

Not to mention every single local gaming store might actually full on revolt. If Wizards of the Coast, stop shipping them physical books. It's a good source of revenue for them

[lyric viper]

I mean Alt covers were meant to be gamestore exclusive so you had to order them through your LGS and not buy them online.

[limber trail]

Out of curiosity, where are you meeting these players? If it’s mainly through this server and others, I suspect it’ll have a higher proportion of online-only players than the regular player base, which will coincide with more use of the apps

[lyric viper]

(I say 'meant to' as some bigger book cmpanies like waterstones sell them online, which feels like it defeats the point, Waterstones)

[normal junco]

Most FLGS around me died in stages after WotC let big box stores sell the books, then Amazon, then the dndbeyond platform, directly themselves. I now need to drive like 1 to 2 hours just to reach a flgs now.

[buoyant oar]

Yeah, they're not exactly the most profitable endeavor, but I live in a minor city and there's still three of them in my area. Commute 1 hour and there's 10 more

[normal junco]

Up in Canada, customers could pick up the books through Amazon cheaper than the FLGS could order at their distributor's cost.

But anyways, I like playing the physical game with physical books.

[short brook]

I haven't had much of a chance to play physically

[buoyant oar]

Well, there's unfortunately a huge thing about international shipping right now. That makes things very inconvenient, but that's not a topic for this space

[short brook]

only recently, its pretty nice

[normal junco]

Digital just doesn't do it for me. Even through an app at a physical table.

I'm old.

[median kayak]

Thoughts on Legends of Avantris

[short brook]

i'm ok with either, but physical for sure is awesome

[buoyant oar]

I like the web series Legends of Avantris. I did not care for the Crooked Moon at all.

[normal junco]

Chaotic. It functions because everyone at the table rolls with it

And that's why the funny works

[short brook]

Crooked Moon is cool, playing it rn its pretty damn fun

[normal junco]

I am looking forward to their sci-fi setting

[short brook]

same, it looks really cool

Neon Odyssey right?

[normal junco]

And on the polar opposite of the spectrum, the dumpster fire that was the neopets thing

[buoyant oar]

I will give the crooked Moon one. Good thing it's art direction with stellar.

[undone rain]

Oh shit we talking avantris? They were one of the people who got me into dnd

[jade spade]

I like gricko and gideon, morning frost and the gang

[undone rain]

Theres a wild gorilla on the loose?

[limber trail]

A quiet gorilla.

[crimson gulch]

That's a shame, mine are doing better than ever

It's not just a place where folks buy things and go they are real community spaces with events and folks that are really passionate about the games

[short brook]

I'm not sure if I even i have one in my city

[undone rain]

Dnds not exactly super popular where i live but there are other nerdy things to make up for it

[wicked mulch]

D&D Question of the Day (D&D Beyond: Playing the Game):

TRUE OR FALSE: Outside of combat, players act in any order they like; the DM ensures everyone gets a chance and decides how to resolve attempts.

[paper portal]

ya

[true whale]

True and false

In roleplay my dm just goes down the list of the discord call lmao

If we’re all present in a location that is

Makes it easier to keep track of everyone and makes it so that no one’s forgotten

[woven flint]

I've made my jump from Lord of Goofy to Ruler of Everything 🧐

[lean wigeon]

i think umm
i think
uhmm
uhh
i think i
uhm
when you
i

idk i didnd tterwa dbthe PHB

[hot marlin]

"They" like is inaccurate. The DM has the final say on the order, however if the DM doesn't care, yeah, it's the order they like

[woven flint]

Hell yeah

[true whale]

Oh shi

Chat run

[hot marlin]

Don't worry. With time, all laws devolve into spectacle, rulers become jesters and the law and history itself become farces.

No man is sovereign from man. The mass always conquers its ruler and chaos always takes its due

[true whale]

Tokii don’t you just love playing as a goose so all you can do in roleplay is honk into your microphone

[hot marlin]

Hi, I'm Incubus! I am not a fiend.

[woven flint]

I've been listening to too much Tally Hall

[true whale]

Oooh that’s so real though

[woven flint]

No because I love role-playing characters with actual substance and personality

[true whale]

Are you saying that my goose doesn’t have substance or personality

I’m offended

Actually the amount I’ve been able to express the feelings of the goose just by describing his reactions and body language is insane, playing a character that can’t speak whilst roleplaying can still actually work

[woven flint]

As lovely as you are, I just prefer not playing joke characters
Even as the Lord of Goofy

[true whale]

And even like the bonds with other members of the party like the goose is friends with half the party but not the other half

Wait

Wait no

Chat I just realised they’re both druids I’m so dumb

I’ve inadvertently made the goose like the animal friends

[woven flint]

The closest think I've played to a Joke Character was my Ysoki/Ratfolk Mechanic in a Starfinder game
The Joke with him wasn't that he was a Rat Mechanic, it was Moreso he and his Robotic companion gave off Rocket and Groot vibes
They were still kinda serious characters because they were investigating his father's murder

He was very fun to play
Small Mechanic able to just.. get in places

He kept everything running for his crew

[rough basalt]

Most jokey character I've played is John Dungeon, Champion Fighter

[normal junco]

i've made Holden D. Items, though that was in an MMO.

[rough basalt]

Ye a jokey name in an mmo is somewhat normal I'd say lol

In DnD a joke character can be a real pain in the ass.

[normal junco]

currently i'm playing a tall and lanky dumb orc barbarian named Chor. because he's good at chores

the absolutely funniest thing about the character isn't that his INT is 7, its actually that another party member who he thought was much smarter has an INT of 6. that, and i'm doing everything i can to make him look absolutely ridiculous via equipment and stuff. currently he looks like Temu Batman.

[normal junco]

i literally made that character to store inventory and nothing else. not so much clever as making sure i remembered where i put my stuff.

its difficult playing a dumb character effectively.

[fossil shuttle]

Does anyone else think it's kinda weird that Undead Warlock doesn't get any spells that create, I don't know, undead? Not really much Necromancy going on with the Necromancy subclass.

[normal junco]

yeah, that sounds odd

which book?

[rough basalt]

Your patron doesn't want you stepping in their lane.

[celest sail]

WOTC probably intended for it to be more death mage than necromancer, the spell list gives you spells that manipulate life and death and distinctly avoiding summoning any undead

I imagine the patron just going “No no not that part” when you are granted your powers

[celest sail]

Van Richten’s

[uncut zenith]

That’s because the Undead partially becomes one of the patron’s minions (Form of Dread)

[celest sail]

I like it more that way

[marble lion]

considering every other death mage class has necromancy, it is pretty weird

[celest sail]

I’m just sad the horror UA took away phantom steed and replaced it with vampiric touch

[rough basalt]

Its cause the other death classes aren't minions of a being that's on the same plane of existence (usually) as them.

Undeadlocks are essentially minions you can send anywhere in the world and people won't bat an eye without you showing your true face (form of dread)

Difference is, said minion can bite the hand that feeds so best to keep a numbers advantage as well. (No Undead raising)

[true whale]

I think you’ve got to be careful with not going too into the joke, cause like you can entirely cripple yourself in the process, so it still needs to be usable

[rough basalt]

Yeah there's a spectrum of joke characters

There's joke name, but it's played completely seriously and completely straight. This is one of my exceptions.

There's joke name, comedic relief, which can be fine in some circumstances.

Then there's joke name, constant joking and completely useless ingame.

And there's stuff in between but I'd say those are the 3 significant points.

The last one is where I'll leave.

Or remove you immediately nowadays.

Like some examples
Ser Jello Pudding, aspiring knight plasmoid who came to Barovia to save their best friend who was taken by the mists, and they play it completely straight.
Barbie the Barbarian whose completely dumb and makes jokes but he's got a heart of gold and knows when seriousness matters.
Sir I Just Pooped my Pants the Fighter with 8s in Strength, Dexterity and Con, who uses unarmed with the archery fighting style, no armor, and didnt take starting equipment and can only say "I pooped my pants"

[jade spade]

I had a goblin whose name was jimjim. that was the only joke thing and it wasn't even a joke it felt goblin-like

[rough basalt]

I will always remove mister poop pants

Basically don't cross the line from funny character to disruptive player.

[halcyon forum]

Are you implying that Mr Poopy b-hole is not an inspired character name?! The audacity

[rough basalt]

Yes. And I'm not afraid to say it.

[halcyon forum]

So brave

[light cape]

good morning everyone

[halcyon forum]

But to be more serious, wouldn’t want to play in a game with too jokey characters either

[thorn wedge]

The problem is that 99% of the time it isn’t nearly as funny as the person telling the joke thinks it is

[woven flint]

Trooth

[marble lion]

well its mostly just

dnd game takes too long for a joke to last

you gotta mix it up and engage with the actual game too

[worn lagoon]

If there is a joke character in the session 0 you will never see me again

[marble lion]

yeah

character with a joke fine
joke character in a serious game? rough

[worn lagoon]

If there isn't one in sesh0 but you bring a joke character after, not only you are never seeing me again but I'm casting a hex on you

Your pillows will always be warm and slightly soaked

[serene jolt]

My most "jokey" character I've played is my Tiefling Ranger with 7 int. (Rolled stats). She is a Drakewarden and frequently bounces stupid ideas off of her drake and tries to pull it off sometimes.

She has tried to mount and restrain a Displacer Beast once...

And she takes things extremely literally. Ex: She was once told that giants are man eaters so she assumes they only eat men. Therefore, when a female party member was afraid that they had to face a giant, she reassured them that giants only eat men and that they will be safe.

But she's a "serious" jokey character and I avoid disrupting combat and roleplay while remaining the comedic relief when I can

And what I find hilarious is that she doesn't know she's dumb. So when she makes these outrageous claims, she's just like "Well duhhh..." And refuses logical responses from others. XD

[woven flint]

I've played In a oneshot with an INCREDIBLY egregious joke character
Like, so jokey it was too much for even a oneshot
It was worse because everyone was taking the onesot seriously! the Joke character person comes in late and the dm allows it for the hell of it and THEY get the kill with their dumb demonic elmo barbarian character.
I was REALLY irritated because that ruined and otherwise awesome oneshot for me, like, how are you gonna show up halfway through the oneshot YOU signed up for, make a dumb character AND get the kill that the group was putting incredible effort into.

[celest sail]

I’m not sure if it’s always the case but usually when I see one dimensional joke characters it gives me the impression that the player is just scared to suspend their sense of disbelief and actually engage with the “playing pretend” part of DnD

[thorn wedge]

Ye I think that’s more of a comic relief character than a joke character. A joke character is more like someone whose entire existence is a joke. Like the rogue who is a bear, or a pugelist named Sylvester Stallone who talks exactly like Sylvester Stallone. That sort of thing wears out its welcome fast.

[woven flint]

I may sound like an ass for this, but would anyone else be annoyed at this? Surely? Right?
I'm not a very easy guy to make angry 😭

[serene jolt]

Oh yeah okay, then I guess I've never had a joke character. XD

Sometimes I'll make "play on words" names in Latin or Greek but never full on joke characters.

[celest sail]

I don’t think it’s out of the ordinary to be annoyed that a player is solely at the table just so they can get an audience for their joke, and somehow that person ends up getting the payoff moment that everyone has been working towards

[jaunty raptor]

Joke names are great when done right. I mean sometimes real life has them too. That aside, comedic relief and levity are needed at times. Finding the balance is hard tho

[woven flint]

It happened months ago but even thinking about it makes my blood boil 😭

Everyone else had such endearing characters even for a oneshot and I wish they could've been a party for a long-running campaign

[tawdry sentinel]

3 serious characters
1 light hearted pyromaniac
Theme park mascot who was cursed by a hag into being physically melded with the costume and is now a sentient gingerbread man.

[woven flint]

My character got some payoff too though.
Before we went monster hunting, he noticed that a Halfling lady was cursed, ended up removing said curse and the two went on a nice date after the monster was killed
Its funny, he was a Sahuagin, so like.. a big fish monster man (flavored as a Shark man) lol

My swimming speed actually mattered because we were fighting in a swamp 😎

[serene jolt]

I'm happy for you cuz swim speed so rarely matters xD

(Unless you're in a specific themed campaign)

[woven flint]

He absolutely kicked ass.
He was a Forge Adept Artificer from Exploring Eberron

[serene jolt]

As a ranger who just got roving while everyone else got super cool capstones (level 6 capstones), I'm over here like 'hey hey guys, I can swim now!' 🤣 /hjk

[woven flint]

He had advantage on pretty much every attack because of the Sahuagin Blood Frenzy ability

[serene jolt]

Oooh I've always wanted to try that one since it came out. The idea of literally having a Greatsword you can throw is amazing

[woven flint]

Basically all I did was Pop a Haste on myself, go Blood Frenzy and absolutely Slaughtered lol

[serene jolt]

Sadly our current party I was gonna use it on has too many martials so I'm going with bard. XD

I was really considering making another Maverick tho...

But when I mentioned it, my bf groaned and said I "use maverick Artificer too much".

[woven flint]

(He also had 27 AC :> )

[serene jolt]

Holy frick

[umbral girder]

Oh yeah the Paladin in my Friday game has similar AC. I need to check

[woven flint]

Had 25 from all his Armor and Shield and stuff.
The +2 was from Haste

[serene jolt]

Oooh

Yeah artificers can build some insane AC if they wanna

Cuz of their magic plans mainly

[umbral girder]

The Paladin has a 29 AC before spells or abilities

[woven flint]

Arkhass destroyed.
He was only ever hit only a couple of times lol

[serene jolt]

We are level 6 and my Maverick Artificer has the highest AC at 20. And I'm not even trying.

Granted, we don't have any real "tanks"

[woven flint]

There's no such thing as Tanking in D&D 🧐
The best way ti tank is to kill things

Or charm them

[serene jolt]

Yeah I mean we don't have any paladins or fighters with heavy armor or anything.

No Bladesingers or other high AC classes/subclasses

He was just surprised to see my Maverick I was playing like a wizard to have such a high AC compared to everyone else.

[umbral girder]

Or just simply get in the way

Like that Lich didn’t get past Jabal because he was in the way of the entrance. So he killed Jabal instead.

[serene jolt]

Or give dis on attacks from everyone but you.

[woven flint]

Oh yeah, I did an Bakugo-esk voice for him too 😭 (I'm not a MHA fan, but he was also an incredibly violent and volatile individual)

[umbral girder]

Jabal being Tokii’s former Paladin.

[serene jolt]

There are a couple subclasses that does that

Yeah there's also the Armorer Artificer and Cavalier Fighter

And I'm sure there are more.

[woven flint]

The Hero

[woven flint]

Goading attack from Battlemaster!

[serene jolt]

Heck even an Archfey Warlock has that with their Taunting Misty step (5.5e)

I still love baiting attacks with that and then rolling a successful Blink. It's hilarious.

[woven flint]

2014 Archfey Warlock kinda sucked, huh?
I looked at it real fast to see what it upgraded from and.. yikers

[serene jolt]

5.5e Archfey is soooo fricking fun

100% when I get to level 20, I'm making one again!

I love the trickiness of Archfey. Blink, greater invis, and the misty steps alone are just amusing to use.

[umbral girder]

But yeah there are ways to tank in the game with choke points and the right abilities

You proved it yourself Tokii with Jabal.

[woven flint]

You could technically also count base Barbarian in general because reckless attack basically incentivizes enemies into attacking you because you leave yourself open

[serene jolt]

True-ish.

[woven flint]

It's not a taunt, but everyone loves free advantage

[serene jolt]

But some enemies are smart enough with flanking or pack tactics or whatever that they'll just go around the "tank" to target the squishy DPSs, Healers, or Buffer/Debuffers.

I've seen that happen plenty of times. That's why I aim to lock people down with grapples and movement.

[woven flint]

Rest in Peace, My first Genasi Character 😔

[serene jolt]

With my Forge Druid, I usually grab Wildshapes with auto-grapples so I can snatch and walk off with an enemy so it cannot touch the others.

[woven flint]

Tight spaces are where most martials get their strength

[reef tundra]

Often when I play, me and my other front liners just end up making a physical wall

[serene jolt]

In open maps, that doesn't work too well. Otherwise, I totally get it. I love tactical positioning in games.

[reef tundra]

I remember when battling an archdevil, me, the Barb, and light cleric literally just barricaded the way to the wizard with our bodies

I was surprised that the devil couldn’t teleport

[umbral girder]

In other words. A dungeon.

[woven flint]

The party I'm playing my Pugilist in has TWO pet subclasses
Dog & Hound Pugilist and Battlesmith Artificer.
I, myself, tend to stand in the Frontlines with the two pets and we absolutely wallop

[serene jolt]

I'm sometimes pretty selfish though so even with my Archfey Warlock that has high survivability, I still sometimes sit back with the wizard and let the martials get the poop knocked out of them.

[reef tundra]

Okay now I have to try a pugilist

[serene jolt]

I really want to try the Dog and Hound one day

[woven flint]

Dog & Hound is a VERY strong subclass tbh

[serene jolt]

It looks fun asf. What I wanted in a Beastmaster Ranger wrapped in a bow.

[woven flint]

The dog can Grapple, Shove or Prone on its hits.
All are forced strength saves instead of the target choosing

[reef tundra]

I just realised you’ve promoted yourself to ruler of everything

You madman /j

[woven flint]

So you and your dog can just.. be grappling people

[reef tundra]

Wait, summons couldn’t?!

[woven flint]

You understand mechanical hands are the ruler of everything...

[serene jolt]

I mean technically they can, yeah.

[woven flint]

Augh, been listening to too much Tally Hall.
Got Banana Man and Ruler of Everything stuck in my head

[rough basalt]

Looking forward to tonight, gonna tpk my party. /j

[serene jolt]

But not force strength saves

[reef tundra]

Oh thank god I thought I was going crazy

[serene jolt]

Cuz you can choose athletics or acrobatics

[woven flint]

Summons can, but the Dog is just better 🔥

[reef tundra]

Ahhh, Oki. Yeah that sounds much better

[reef tundra]

The dog is the goat

[serene jolt]

Dog scales with you, like the Drakewarden

[reef tundra]

Excellent…. Destroy them

[serene jolt]

So it's less of a summon, more of a "another half of you".

[woven flint]

My Pugilist is a Warforged
And his dog
Is an English Sheepdog 🧐

Sentry and Vigilance are their names

[reef tundra]

And I assume it scales better than the beast master summon “scales”

[serene jolt]

It does scale pretty well imo

[reef tundra]

The beast master?

[serene jolt]

-# I still wish Drakewarden also scaled better but it's fine

[jolly canyon]

Stand and Bow after they all die.

[serene jolt]

No the Pugilist

[reef tundra]

Ohhhh. Yeah that makes sense

Now I really wanna try pugilist

[woven flint]

They're big boys...
Sentry is, at least.. he's 7 feet tall and takes up an entire trains hallway with his broadness lol

[serene jolt]

Idk why Drakewarden has access to flight so flipping late in the capstones.

When many other subclasses/classes gets things like that sooner then level 10...

[woven flint]

He's a Juggernaut Warforged model!

He even has the Mark of Sentinel, so he can swap places with someone to take an attack for them

[serene jolt]

Yeah that subclass of pugilist is what I've always wanted in a Beastmaster Ranger. It's very good on paper! I'm sure it's great in play.

[reef tundra]

Sentry sounds peak

[rough basalt]

Best I can do is put up a TPK screen on foundry

[woven flint]

He's a very soft spoken giant fella

[reef tundra]

Awwwww

[jolly canyon]

YOU DIED screen would be so troll lol

[rough basalt]

If I have a TPK I'd probably use the Elder Scrolls 2 Daggerfall death screen, it's pretty fun

[woven flint]

He doesn't typically kill humanoid or human-like enemies because he held it from part of his training as a former Law Enforcement unit

[jolly canyon]

I gotta Google that

[undone bloom]

😮 whoa this server is bumpin harder than the Yawning Portal

[woven flint]

He was part of a group known as the Sentinel Marshals!
House Deneiths cross-country law enforcement agency.

[reef tundra]

Awwww. Now make him fight the joker

[rough basalt]

Turns out what I thought it was, was the original death screen that was changed out for a cinematic in the game release.

[woven flint]

Well, things is.. He would kill if his party deemed the enemy too much of a threat to keep alive
He just doesn't by default lol

[rough basalt]

The cinematic is very nice for its time tho.

[serene jolt]

Also if anyone has experience with bard, namely the College of Adventurer Bard from Grim Hollow, I'd love some advice #third-party message .

I don't know if it's a good bard or not for my purpose and I'm struggling to decide on a class/subclass.

[jolly canyon]

Yea it looks good lol

[rough basalt]

Back when ES was developed in interesting ways for writers lol

[jolly canyon]

Totally not the place to discuss that any further but man that timeline is crazy for Game Devs

[tribal night]

I love women

[jolly canyon]

Actually interesting stories

[rough basalt]

True

There was a lot of stuff that it's good we moved on from in the 1970s to 2000s era of fantasy from but there's a lot of genuinely good fantasy alongside it.

[woven flint]

I once had an Orc Mercy Monk named Yurukarth whom was so committed to Redemption and Mercy that he was deemed a Saint across the country which he had influenced

He even talked to sentient giant ants and treated them as people too lol

[rough basalt]

Like the original Drizzt novels showcase it the best I think.

[woven flint]

And, don't get me wrong.
This was a BIG Brolic Orc man that WOULD fight.
He'd just Never Kill under any circumstances

[rough basalt]

There's some stuff that it's good we moved on from, but even then there was showings of Drow not being inherently evil, just Drizzt being the strongest one to not be brainwashed.

[buoyant oar]

Drizzt ain't even the only good Drow in his own books

[rough basalt]

Well I'm moreso talking about the Dark Elf Trilogy

[buoyant oar]

He is good because of his father Zaknafien

[rough basalt]

Yeah Zaknafein was another

Ultimately he succumbed to his society, until the end, but Drizzt didn't which reignited his fight there at the end.

[woven flint]

I've played...
3 Good Male Drow characters.

2 of which were before I even heard of Drizzit lol

None were a Ranger or had an animal companion though

[rough basalt]

There's even some narrative when Drizzt was growing up that his older sister that was his caretaker was even growing softer cause of him

[jolly canyon]

I like how in Eberron(if my knowledge is correct) the Drow were essentially just Elf assassins. As in hunted down and assassinated Elves for trying to start a rebellion against the Giant rulers. So here the only ones who'd really hate Drow are Elves. Might be other reasons to not like them but this all I can remember lol

[rough basalt]

Until she was sent off to priestesshood

[buoyant oar]

Until book 33, Hero's Twist Ending.

[rough basalt]

I've only read the Dark Elf Trilogy. I've gotten lazy

[buoyant oar]

But outside of Drizzt at the time. There was Daughter of the Drow which featured Liriel Baenrae a good aligned Drow priestess who flees to the surface.

[woven flint]

Who's y'alls favorite Drow Deity? (Besides Lolth lol)
I kinda dig Eilistraee and Vhaeraun

[rough basalt]

Eiliastree

I like deities that put their money where their mouth is so to speak.

[buoyant oar]

Kiransalaee because she lacks any chill

[woven flint]

Though uh.. Selvetarm? I think.. they're pretty cool too!

[buoyant oar]

Just don't read how to become a Yithranshaee in her cult.

[woven flint]

Looking it uo right now to spite you

[buoyant oar]

Your loss

Also one of Mystra's Seven Daughters is a Drow.

[woven flint]

Oh... 🗿

[rough basalt]

Oh dear god

[woven flint]

I see.

[buoyant oar]

Yea 0% chill

[woven flint]

Everything else about her is pretty neat..
Except for that-

[buoyant oar]

There is always a catch

[rough basalt]

Me when I wanna become a leader of my goddesses cult so I can go pay Kas a visit

[woven flint]

LMAO

[rough basalt]

Then get told he doesn't swing that way

[woven flint]

Sora, I didn't know you were a freakster

[buoyant oar]

Worst part. That was a playable prestige class in v3.5

[rough basalt]

I mean if you had to do it, a Vampire would probably be the best bet I think.

[woven flint]

I guess that's true

[rough basalt]

I have a guilty pleasure for gloriously screwed up lore when it borders on hilarity

[buoyant oar]

There is darker Drow lore than that but uhhh I'm not getting that Setting agnostic Dragon Magazine article out ever again.

[woven flint]

Oh! Selvetarm is Vhaerauns Son and therefore Lolths Grandson

I didn't know that

I thought he was just some guy

Brother rejected both of his Parents to become Lolths champion despite hating her

Dawg, what are you doing?

He even saved Lolths life when Vhaeraun was almost able to KILL her!

[raw hinge]

hi! I've seen many people telling that ai for dnd is bad and everything, but someone gave me an idea to download online rules and give them to ai and say to reference to them when you ask questions. idk, maybe that will end up badly but I just wanted to share thoughts so

[woven flint]

The Dark Seladrine pisses me off, bro 😭

[raw hinge]

pls don't hate me for this, this is just an idea

[undone bloom]

maybe don't use the water-sucking theft algorithm that hallucinates fake info, and try just idk... reading the rules

[umbral girder]

Yeah it’s still very bad.

Even if you feed it the rules it gets them wrong a lot

[undone bloom]

like if you're gonna download the rules to a document, just Ctrl+F what you wanna look up

[reef tundra]

Can I join? I’ve been meaning to pay him a visit too

[umbral girder]

There is also a rules glossary in 2024 PHB/Basic rules in alphabetical order to make it easier

[raw hinge]

so it's still bad at analysing info?

[undone bloom]

very bad

[umbral girder]

Yep

[reef tundra]

It is like, irrationally bad with dnd

Like, it defies logic with how bad it is

You could tell it everything, ask a simple question, and it’ll just still make something up

[umbral girder]

Sometimes it will give an answer then explain how its answer is wrong.

[raw hinge]

ok tnx for feedback

[reef tundra]

Alternatively, if you want to ask something questions about the rules, you could always ask those in #dnd-rules

Far more accurate than any robot could ever be

[rough basalt]

It's fed by misinformation of others so you'll almost never have the right stuff pop up.

[umbral girder]

Also yeah it’s also just bad for any kind of use in general due to how it functions. So there really isn’t any positive upsides

[worn lagoon]

Ai is terrible at dnd as it is with most things, but it's probably still better than low effort clickbait content dnd knowledge

[reef tundra]

Any effort more than none is more effort than something made with AI

[worn lagoon]

Just stick to the books or head to the rules optimization channels if you need help building, or the character and lore chat if you want writing help

[rough basalt]

Google Search AI compiler is the only one I use cause it just compiles everything from actual credible sites and gives you links to them.

[reef tundra]

Anyway, let’s change the topic before it descends into the morals of using AI

[viral kraken]

there is not a language model currently that is trained on basically just the rules, you'd probably want to make a small language model from scratch, since if you want verbatim rules answers anyway it doesn't matter if it overfits, but maybe just don't? it'd be a ton of effort and resources when you can just search digital versions of the rules if you have questions

[worn lagoon]

The cheap content puts the ai generated stuff out there as factual so I think its even worse

[reef tundra]

And then becomes a fierce argument

[buoyant oar]

Another big issue is how confidently wrong it can be. It can't ever be trusted because it will confidently tell you that Barbarians get immunity to piercing slashing and bludgeoning damage while raging.

[undone bloom]

even if you made your own model, it's gonna get stuff wrong. just use a search function ffs

[rough basalt]

Also it's designed to agree with you on stuff.

[worn lagoon]

It will also insist that fire bolt is overpowered for doing 2d10 damage at lv5

[rough basalt]

So you'll have people be like "chatgpt is my dm bad for not letting me kill a bunch of npcs?" And it'll go "yes, bad dm"

[buoyant oar]

They are specifically designed to make you feel good using it first, and then keep you coming back second, and way below all of that is it presenting accurate information.

[raw hinge]

the problem is that I am a beginer and I may not know some of the "basic rules" that will prove to me that ai is wrong

[rough basalt]

That's why you just read the rules

[undone bloom]

just. search. for. the. rule. you. need.

[viral kraken]

that a great reason not to use it

[undone bloom]

it sounds like you're trying to convince yourself that ai will be fine even though EVERYONE is telling you how bad it will be

[buoyant oar]

Yep which is why one should sit down and play. and if they cannot do that sit down and read. If you can read a discord chat. You can read the Basic Rules Document.

[rough basalt]

Huh. It always works fine for me.

Usually it tells me when I'm wrong.

[umbral girder]

That’s what the rules glossary is for

It has all of them in A-Z order.

[rough basalt]

And I don't wanna go to RPG site to find the rule for an obscure ruling and have to look through paragraphs of misinformation for the one piece of correct one.

[uncut zenith]

Yep. And a lot of them have page numbers to where you can reference the more detailed info

[reef tundra]

Also I just own the books so I can look it up myself. I may be young but for some reason I find it easier to find something in a book rather than online sometimes

[rough basalt]

I keep the three corebooks open on ddb whenever I play

Whenever I use stuff from outside it, I have the book next to me on my desk

[buoyant oar]

AI is inherently an anti creativity tool. It makes you think you are being creative but in reality you are actively losing the ability to be creative as you offshore that mental labor to the tool.

[uncut zenith]

I keep the physical ones in hand cuz I run off a single laptop

[viral kraken]

but that's what you just had ai do at that point, it's much more likely not to know what is true and what is false, and without doing it yourself you could just be blindly mislead right?

[uncut zenith]

It’s easier for me to flip through the books to minimize the number of tabs I have to shuffle through

[rough basalt]

Yeah true. But I've read the rules so I know when it's wrong, and personally it's done alright by me.

Not saying it's perfect but decent enough for quick searches.

[reef tundra]

Anyway like I mentioned earlier let’s be careful to not descend into just straight up arguing about AI on its own and not AI in dnd

[uncut zenith]

Yep. A lot of studies have been recently done that show a decrease in creativity and critical thinking in people who rely heavily on AI. If you use a tool to “think” and “create” for you, those skills begin to atrophy.

[raw hinge]

no I am completely rational because it dosen't make sense to me that ai can write complex programs almost singlehandedly but can't just analyse a pdf file. I don't want it to play for me I just want not to go to dnd beyond every 30 seconods. I'ts just helping to analise info. correct me if I'm wrong

[undone bloom]

you are wrong

[rough basalt]

Because those are two different uses of AI

[umbral girder]

And it doesn’t do that

[rough basalt]

AI used for software development isn't an LLM designed to make you wanna use it.

[undone bloom]

coding and parsing text are two entirely different things, and ai is worse at one than the other (though bad at both tbh)

[rough basalt]

It's basically a glorified hamster wheel

[viral kraken]

the reason models can do certain tasks with a lower margin of error than others is because that is explicitly what they were trained for, and fine tuned to do. there is no model trained and fine tuned for dnd rules, and again training one up from scratch would be a huge sink of time and resources

[rough basalt]

Meanwhile an LLM is a Genie giving you 2 truths and a lie, and if you pick out the lie you earn 3 wishes

And the answer? It's all a lie.

[undone bloom]

that's like thinking someone is good at juggling bc they can solve a rubik's cube

[umbral girder]

It will just get rules wrong or give fake rules.

[rough basalt]

Also when rules change, you'll end up with it mixing old and new rules

[buoyant oar]

That is the sales pitch of AI. It saves time by analyzing info. But in my actual use case LLMs have cost more time because you can't trust it. So you have the time it takes to get the LLM to give you the ruling Plus the time to actually verify it.

That is, if you actually care about playing right. But someone somewhere will correct you.

[rough basalt]

Like telling you 2024 Berserker can bonus attack once while raging for an exhaustion point or something.

[uncut zenith]

Same with when it’s used to create character sheets. We recently had someone in here who had an AI generated character sheet with 20+ in all stats at level 1

[buoyant oar]

And no one wants to feel dumb because they confidently believed a Lying Bot.

[rough basalt]

I mainly use Googles for doublechecking.
Even then it's the search engine summary compiler one not the full bot.

[raw hinge]

so basicaly the olny right way to use ai for dnd is to create a separate LMM dedicaded just for dnd?

[rough basalt]

It's to not use it

[umbral girder]

That still gonna get you incorrect information

Seems if you are so keen on it you’ll just have to suffer the consequences.

[reef tundra]

I think you can just… enjoy dnd without AI

[celest sail]

I’m not sure if it’ll convince you but I’m giving my testimony too when I say that LLMs will not serve your purpose well, especially when it’s something as dense as an entire DnD sourcebook, it will give you some straight bullshit

[buoyant oar]

These things are a net harm to the human species. I don't know how we get rid of them at scale. But as they are right now I fail to see any good use case from any of them. That might change in the future but as long as these things are driven by user engagement any money it ain't gonna happen.

[rough basalt]

Like I've stated I use the Google search engine one for dnd, but there's a big difference between me googling to double check that mounted PCs have the reach of the creature they're mounting (they do) and using an LLM to basically play the game for you.

[glossy otter]

Dnd vs ai convo?

[jolly canyon]

Tip toeing to that moral part. I think everyone has said their mind and we should change subject. This individual will either listen or not listen to the OVERWHELMING no's on using ai.

[celest sail]

New player wants to use AI to help them learn the rules by plugging in a PDF and asking the LLM to help interpret the rules

[glossy otter]

eeeh they're better learning it at a table

Ai can only get you so far, and still if you put in the wrong prompt it might not end well

[buoyant oar]

DnD Literacy is already in the toilet. Don't use AI and make the problem worse.

[reef tundra]

The definitions of community terms are already so stretched 😭

[glossy otter]

As i've stated before imo, it's great as a thought processor but it should not dominate the work

[jaunty raptor]

Don't forget, every time you use AI to make anything for you, you neglect that part of your brain of doing it yourself and therefore get worse at doing it

[viral kraken]

i mean literacy in general, fwiw. 25% of folks in my country cannot read at a 6th grade level (which is wild considering that the average eula requires the equivilent of a 2-year degree to comprehend, but somehow it's legally binding for people who literally cannot understand it?)

[reef tundra]

And it slurps up water and ram /hj

[jaunty raptor]

Aside, of course, from the moral issues of helping to burn down the rainforests and the like

[buoyant oar]

Real Folks would not scourge this hobby and industry with Slop.

[celest sail]

Yeah I’m just rephrasing the question I know it’s a terrible idea because of this and also the mountain of people sharing hallucination stories, but I don’t think anyone succeeded in convincing this person

[glossy otter]

I think the only thing I really give ai credit for is helping me build on a thought of making a bbeg an allegory

[rough basalt]

I wonder what my literacy level is

[jaunty raptor]

AI as a tool would be fine if it had not been poisoned as it is. Instead of it being a neat, organisational tool it instead robs artists and boils the earth

[rough basalt]

cause I can read and understand books just fine but then Tamms says something and it's like I'm trying to decipher the forbidden texts (I can still more or less understand, but I definitely have to use examples.)

[buoyant oar]

It sucks that a legitimately cool piece of technology is used in the worst possible way the human race could conjure for creativity.

[reef tundra]

Humanity is the issue
Rogue AI sounds /j

[glossy otter]

I'm still salty someone tried to steal my friends art to use for AI

[jaunty raptor]

I mean at this point...

[reef tundra]

Aww I’m sorry to hear that :(

[viral kraken]

i mean you should be, if your friend makes art ai is taking money out of their wallet and food out of their mouth

[rough basalt]

I've been a little too tolerant of it at my tables for art

[reef tundra]

If I have to spend the rest of my adulthood fighting off Ultron and an army of warforged, I’m gonna be mad

[buoyant oar]

I don't even allow AI art PC tokens in my games. If a player gives me one. I tell them to get other art from a non AI source.

[rough basalt]

Since I don't stream my games

[buoyant oar]

If they refuse, I kick them full stop.

[glossy otter]

they do commission work but they post on their instagram of the art they've done

[normal canyon]

Hi

[jaunty raptor]

With luck we can atleast sic em on the rich first, enjoy a show n all that

[rough basalt]

Its something I'm working on

[buoyant oar]

Over half of my tables are artists. We would rather eat glass.

[rough basalt]

I don't have any players like that afaik

[celest sail]

that is horrible

[rough basalt]

My goals to try and learn to draw so I can eventually do all the art for my tables

[jaunty raptor]

I miss the time of 10 years ago, when the thought of AI sounded awesome

[glossy otter]

I don't mind ai as something for last minute NPCs or just because someone can't draw and doesn't have money, but the plagarism makes me sick

[jaunty raptor]

not that this stuff is true AI. It just co-opted the name

[rough basalt]

My goal eventually as a dm is to eventually be able to handle everything myself to a high quality.

[buoyant oar]

I use DM Heroes for NPC art. It has generative elements but only based on art from his own internal supply of assets.

[glossy otter]

interesting, I'll have to look into that. Trying to stray from AI more often

[jaunty raptor]

There is a difference between a generative source of something and Gen-AI

[rough basalt]

Though the thought of getting closer to Czepeku level of map design and being able to draw proficiently is too much for me to manage right now

[glossy otter]

I see, interesting

[viral kraken]

i mean i remember 14 years ago we knew about most of the problems we are seeing now about how ai will have an alignment problem with humanity inherently with stuff like the "stamp collecting robot" problem or the "big red button" problem, as well as alignment faking and deception to achieve the misaligned goals. you can find videos discussing this stuff on computerphile way back

[rough basalt]

Though part of me needs to decide when I'm doing too much for my games

[jagged sentinel]

We have truly worn the word out, leave it to tech bros to ruin the mystique of the future

[buoyant oar]

For maps I use Dungeon Alchemist. One time Payment and it uses its own assets or assets from the Steam Workshop to generate maps at the Room Level.

[rough basalt]

I use dungeondraft

Tho I should get Dungeon Alchemist

[reef tundra]

Humanity has a funny trait where we can be told every bad thing that might and will happen, yet we just choose to not avoid it

[buoyant oar]

I got no problem with Generative elements on a closed Opt-In system.

[glossy otter]

Maps I just use dungeon draft, but I've seen the work with DA and I must say I'm impressed

[rough basalt]

I'm just getting to a point with the costs of my game running that's getting tiring

[flint ledge]

Oh dungeon alchemist works like that? Huh I didn't know that

[jaunty raptor]

Again, the issue is that this is NOT AI. Non of this things. It copples things together from information fed to it, yes, but it does not have THOUGHTS and that is different. IT can not create or leave its parameters

[glossy otter]

If my computer could've ran 3d elements better I would've considered DA

it does not like talespire

[buoyant oar]

Since it uses 3d models it has to have a source data set. You can upload assets to it but it won't use them unless you try to load a map with those assets.

[rough basalt]

I think i had a dm who used DA for foundry maps

[glossy otter]

that reminds me, didn't sigil get shut down a few days ago

[rough basalt]

Yep

[buoyant oar]

I use it for foundry because it auto exports to foundry. It is awesome for that.

[celest sail]

I hate trying to find long form DnD lore to listen to and seeing some bullshit by a channel that uses AI for everything including the voice. At least there’s this guy who makes like 1-3 hour long Planescape videos and actually put in the work and also compiles his sources

[rough basalt]

I should get it then

[buoyant oar]

All walls and lights done.

[jagged sentinel]

I've got a thinker: Out of all the planes in the WOTC multiverse (DnD & MTG) where you go for spring break?

[rough basalt]

Cause if i can make some better quality maps I can cut out my czepeku sub

[buoyant oar]

and even if you can't there is a robust Steam Workshop where you can download other maps straight into the program. Edit them and then Export.

[viral kraken]

ravnica has good parties canonically. so good people perish at them

[reef tundra]

Mount Celestia. It sounds like a place I can be at peace and write and read forever

[rough basalt]

yeah im sold

[jagged sentinel]

Ooo, nice choice!

[rough basalt]

cause now im getting hit with the financial boom of doom of being a dm

[buoyant oar]

And your maps cannot be shared unless you upload them.

[rough basalt]

And I need a light at the end of the tunnel

[jagged sentinel]

Oh that sounds lovely 😍

[buoyant oar]

It has a bit of a learning curve and sometimes the walls fail on import but it works 90% of the time.

Warning about lights. If you put a bunch of candles down. Foundry thinks every flame needs its own light icon. It can get busy real fast. But just go in and delete extra lights.

[jagged sentinel]

I'd personally pick either Theros for the weather or Bloomburrow for the food!

[rough basalt]

it looks nice

And 45 for better looking maps than DD (least with free assets) and not having to pay for a patreon sounds reasonable

[buoyant oar]

Yea. But I use walls and lights in my foundry. And grabbing jpegs means more set up for me.

[glossy otter]

I'd say new phyrexia, lovely views

[buoyant oar]

Plus I have caught a few AI maps on Battle maps subreddit. So I avoid it like the plague.

[jagged sentinel]

I have a question: is it okay if I talk about the actual settings of mtg? I don't know squat about the actual gameplay cuz I've never played it. I've literally just been obsessed with the GORGEOUS card art and lore for years.

Or is it better in non DND?

I just need clarification

[glossy otter]

I mean eh? technically I'd think setting wise is fine to a degree as long as it doesn't dig into mechanics. But I'm not the judge when it comes to that

[jagged sentinel]

I couldn't tell you what the mechanics are if my life depended on it

Gotchya 👍

[celest sail]

Do you guys prefer Fiend or Undead for Warlocks? They’re my two favorite subclasses and I was just wondering which one people like more from a thematic and mechanical standpoint, I’m not even making planning to play one rn I just like them a lot

[near karma]

I like undead more but fiend is also very cool

[wind dawn]

Good morning

[worn lagoon]

Fiend

In every aspect

[umbral girder]

Undead is more control with fiend being the damage dealer

[reef tundra]

Supposedly the fruit that grows from the trees there are quite literally divine

[umbral girder]

In terms of narratives undead fit in nearly any campaign but Fiend is just a classic for warlocks for a reason

[near karma]

undead does more for you mechanically, though fiend is definitely great

form of dread is really good because it makes your eldritch blast with agonizing and repelling blast even better by frightening your targets. Immunity to the same condition and temp hp are are also nice to have.

phantasmal force is basically a straight upgrade over suggestion to use at levels 3 and 4

phantom steed is the best 3rd level spell in the game

death ward is really good on a warlock because you can cast it and then short rest

Meanwhile, fiend gets dark one's blessing which is good but not as good as the control from form of dread, though it does get dark one's own luck which is a really good feature

The spells aren't as good though. Command is good for levels 1-4, fireball is good but hunger of hadar is also good and fireball stops being useful pretty quickly because you get better spells, and wall of fire is basically the only other relevant spell in the list

[worn lagoon]

Its not expanded spell list anymore, 24 just knows them all for free

[worn lagoon]

Command is good in general i'm ngl

Insane value for a lv1 spell most of the time

[near karma]

yeah, but you have warlock spell slots

it's great with 1st and 2nd level slots, but once you get 3rd level spells you have better options

if you multiclass then fiend's command is better ofc

[worn lagoon]

Sensible

[uncut zenith]

Yeah, the same way how 2024 Tieflings get different resistances and spells based on their lineage

[worn lagoon]

Oh okay

[uncut zenith]

Like an infernal Fiendlock might get different spells from their patron than an abyssal or chthonic Fiendlock

[lavish flame]

Yeah, 2024 exchanged Blindness/Deafness for Suggestion, and their 5th level spells are different. 2014 had Flame Strike and Hallow, 2024 has Geas and Insect Plague.

I think 2024 Fiend is probably stronger if only for the 1st level spell getting changed to something much more potent

[celest sail]

That’s something I find interesting about the Fiend subclass, WOTC basically had to design a single subclass that fit the entire spectrum of fiends across the Lower Planes. Obviously you can’t do every single one justice so they kinda had to just do the classic thematic route but you’d definitely have to do a custom spell list if you’re making a pact with Orcus or any fiend that doesn’t fit the fire and brimstone box

[uncut zenith]

2014 Fiendlock never needed much changing imo, but I’m happy with the changes made in 2024. It wasn’t a subclass that needed an overhaul, like Knowledge cleric did.

[fossil shuttle]

Gonna start a new campaign with some friends, and one of them is brand new. She's making an either elf or dragonborn paladin. Me and my other friend are making a grung rogue and fairy drunk monk respectivley.

[stable kiln]

i want to be a dm but idk how well I'd do lmao

[tired rune]

Can I ask your opinion on something?

[cobalt escarp]

id recommend starting with a one shot. lets you know what you do well and what needs improvement without the commitment of a full campaign.

[loud tendon]

you can just ask

[jolly canyon]

Ask away!

[worn lagoon]

24 fiend is wonderful

[fossil shuttle]

Because presumably someone here has an answer

[stable kiln]

alright, i say that because i only have some of the free books and the 2024 gm book

[cobalt escarp]

on the dm guild you can find a couple of free one shots like wild sheep chase and secrets of skyhorn lighthouse

[stable kiln]

i do have an idea of a one-shot, just tryna figure out what i would really need

[jolly agate]

I kinda wanna make a Glamour bard whit Dr. Frank-N-Furter vibes

[woven flint]

Glorp

[jolly agate]

Wrong channel for dis, mb

[tired rune]

I made a deaf character and his whole life goal was to steal vecnas ears and none of the other players understood his sign language so I intimidated them to understand it but the first session a girl in the group got irrationally mad because she had a second cousin who was deaf and I'm not and she started yelling at me the moment my characters goals and story were brought up and she got me banned from the group almost immediately was I in the wrong the dm said It was ok

[true whale]

Gleep

[kind torrent]

bruh

[celest sail]

It’s just a great and interesting subclass, there’s also a large variety of potential patron archetypes although I assume they all have to be evil of varying degrees if you’re strictly following the Forgotten Realms, unless I am wrong which I secretly hope so

[cobalt escarp]

as long as you weren't moking deaf people, its fine

[kind torrent]

"I got a cousin who's deaf so you can't play a deaf character"

[true whale]

Me when I roleplay in the roleplay game

[kind torrent]

???

[jolly canyon]

Oof that's a rough one. Yea playing someone with a disability isn't wrong on paper but if you're in a new people table/not with friends it can easily cause someone to get upset.

You're not a bad person for choosing this but I'd avoid it in the future. Makes it easier for you

[fossil shuttle]

Yeah, no, you're good. It's not like you were making fun of deaf people, and it's not like that girl was deaf herself.

[jolly canyon]

If you have said disability then by all means.

Again I wanna stress you didn't do anything wrong. It's a role-playing game.

[tired rune]

Me and the dm knew asl so when my fella spoke I did asl to the DM and he translated if I passed the intimidation check

[woven flint]

If'n ya ask me, people shouldn't be getting offended on behalf of other people, even if that does sound a little demeaning to say

[true whale]

Also like deaf representation is kinda like something I’d consider to be cool? Like you’re getting mad at someone who’s saying that a deaf person can go on these heroic (well that depends) adventures and have cool lofty goals and stuff

[true whale]

That’s not demeaning that’s just being normal mate