dnd-discussion

[marble lion]

But they werent from the prime like elves werent either

[prime pewter]

Okay but then like, how come elves get nuance but orcs dont

[short brook]

That's valid

[marble lion]

Not everything has to be the same

Thats a comment to make sure, but not really a rational argument to defy this

Also what about dragons

I kinda imagine old orc morality like chromatics

Theyre evil because of magic stuff, not genes

[prime pewter]

Imo a black dragon can be good, whilst a silver dragon can be evil

[marble lion]

In your opinion?

[short brook]

Have there been cases of good chromatics?

[marble lion]

Probably

[prime pewter]

In games I run

[short brook]

so it's the Skyrim quote

[marble lion]

But chromatic dragons are almost all evil, is that an issue too?

[short brook]

Overcome evil nature with great effort, or something along those lines

[marble lion]

Or is it fine because they dont look like humanoids

[prime pewter]

There's room for nuance, unlike with what you were saying for orcs

[marble lion]

Homebrew is fine, i see the appeal, but i wouldnt call it an issue the way its done

[hot marlin]

Everything and everyone in Toril is alien to it. With a few exceptions

[marble lion]

I bet there was some orc that defied it

[prime pewter]

I'm not continuing this, we aren't getting anywhere

[marble lion]

Im talking about villain creatures existing, not necessarily every individual being the same

[prime pewter]

:3

[marble lion]

You still havent said how corelon is to blame for wotc writing orcs are horrid monsters but i guess im not getting a response there either

[short brook]

I think it's an interesting conversation but definitely a very divisive one

[prime pewter]

??? They are two problems with similar roots

[wanton raft]

Well the problem with that is that from those people's POV, the supposed good races are evil. And that also means that those same races, depending on what they do makes them evil

[prime pewter]

This also contradicts your earlier points

[marble lion]

So i put it wrong, no biggie

Exceptions are often eluded

I wasnt thinking about it

[marble lion]

Not in dnd alignment i think

[prime pewter]

I missphrased myself. I don't hate elves, I just dont really like them

[marble lion]

Alignment refers to more than social standards

Fair enough

[prime pewter]

Anyways, (I'm putting this here bc its more of a silly thing) how should I split my swashbuckler rouge/hexblade warlock? Three maximum levels in swashbuckler, but my party is level 5 :3

[dapper cloud]

Assuming you’re on 2014, 3 Rogue/2 Warlock seems reasonable.

[prime pewter]

Oki thx!!

[knotty pasture]

My guess is that its either because they aren't races that could live in human society (and so we don't judge them by human standards) or in a meta perspective, they aren't playable races

Its like how we don't judge zombies for being evil

[prime pewter]

(It should be noted that I will NOT be taking POTB, as I'd rather take tome, for the utility)

[hoary totem]

We need wizard subclasses that feel like part of the character, not just a tacked-on decision

[old sluice]

But functionally isn't that the same?

[wanton raft]

Wizard schools are actually one of my favorites parts of D&D

Subclasses idgaf

[hot marlin]

I went on a rant about this just yesterday. Honestly, it's probably one of my best ones.

If I ranked my rants, which would be narcissistic

[short brook]

I kinda wish there were more personalized wizard subclasses but I guess thats what sorcerer is for

[hot marlin]

Brb I gotta kiss my mirror

[dapper cloud]

“Now this rant, that’s an easy S tier.”

[wanton raft]

I like that you're forced to choose a subclass and only have a few because you're a wizard who does real study whereas those nepo babies can just choose to their liking.

[short brook]

nepo babies lol

[still plover]

It was a good one. Take the win.

[paper portal]

i think the whole thing with wizards kinda got screwed up when they added a bunch that dont fit the theme

like having one exception is cool and interesting but 4 is just you failed at sticking to the theme

and obviously its kinda difficult to stick to cus it means either adding more spell schools or just not releasing new wizard subs but they also couldve just not come out the gate with all of them

[hot marlin]

OK I'll just say this: I still stand by the opinion that there is no meaningful differences between "they are evil because of their genetics" and "they are evil because of magic". Because, functionally, both serve the same purpose. To dehumanize them, and say that they are naturally irremediably evil. Magic is natural in D&D, it is part of the world. Genetics on the other hand? Not so sure. Those two statements are, in every single way that matters, the same one.

[paper portal]

which i guess is kinda what happened in 5.5 at least

[hot marlin]

And I still stand by the fact that orcs being genetically evil is just as bad as fiends and chromatic dragons being "magically" evil, because the result is just the same thing.

You put the label on "evil" on something, you justify all cruelties, you showcase that they are unworthy of basic dignity.

Their creature type does not matter. This is nothing but a distraction

[still plover]

A minor aside: long-time listeners may have heard me chant "situation, location, opposition, complication."

Opposition is a deliberate choice there. Not baddies, not BBEG. All the other side needs is to have goals incompatible with your own and a willingness to oppose you.

[lyric viper]

I feel like there is a difference between 'person' with free will, culture, language, opinions and 'creature' that exists solely for one purpose. No free will, no culture, mimicry of language - more a manifestation of a concept. Like goblins not being people with a culture but a literal manifestation of mischief that occurs when you envy your neighbour too much. And now a goblin is riding their cows and spoiling their milk.

[still plover]

The daemonic as a reflection.

[hot marlin]

That would be a better way to solve this issue. And even then, I would be wary of putting the label of "always evil" on such goblins

Someone I know often says "yeah but orcs are always evil because it's nice to have something you can fight without needing to grapple with morality". But this does not make sense to me. If you don't want to grapple with morality, just don't. You're the one who decides if you want to think morally or not

At the end of the day "they have goals opposed to ours" is all the reason you need to fight

And we come to the moral disease, by which I mean the need to think of everything in moral terms that serve to hide the actual material situation.

[hoary totem]

Kinda the opposite for me. Sorcerers are born with their magic, they don't choose where it comes from. Wizards study for magic, they should get to choose their specialisation because learning magic was an active choice

[still plover]

Does the demon have a "right to life"? It's aware, intelligent, has free will, can make choices. Sounds like a yes.

Will the demon perform acts that negatively impact on others, substantially, repeatedly and with no sense of remorse? Right then, get the magic sword out.

[hoary totem]

Someone invented scribe magic, someone invented bladesinging, theurgy, lore mastery, etc. Now you're free to choose your subclass because it's your study, you are in full control

[hot marlin]

The concept of free will is another problem.

Like, what does it even mean? It is the product of a specific theology, belongs to a specific religion, and makes no sense when you remove it from its context

[wanton raft]

Well they choose their magic technically but they have to adhere to the rules of what they're learning. They're following a set of guidelines. Whereas sorcs don't need to follow any guidelines because magic is what they make it

[still plover]

In my particular example there feel free (heh) to clip it out. The rest stands, I think.

[hot marlin]

Yes of course.

[wanton raft]

Free will is when I can guiding bolt without consequences

[hot marlin]

But here is the problem: How do you know the demon will perform acts that negatively impact on others, substantially, repeatedly and with no sense of remorse? Do you see the future?

Or are you simply considering the probability?

[wanton raft]

Why I've never been a fan of alignment even though I understand why

[hot marlin]

And if you're considering probability, then it's true of everyone. Everyone has a chance to perform acts that negatively impact on others, substantially, repeatedly and with no sense of remorse. How do you determine that probability? Which degree of certainty is enough to get the magic sword out?

Statistically, the average demon is far more likely to be killed and eaten by another demon before they can even meet a humanoid.

Doesn't that mean demons are actually less likely to harm human beings than other human beings?

[still plover]

-# What we do is we have these three psychics in a bath, see, and...

[hot marlin]

Just because tigers will attack and kill human beings does not mean you should kill every tiger, you know?

[still plover]

Sure. But you wouldn't approach a wild tiger with your hand out saying, "here, kitty kitty."

[humble cairn]

It makes people uncomfortable to fight and kill other people, so they have to make their enemies not people.

[humble cairn]

It's a tautological definition. If it is irredeemably evil it is a demon. If it is not irredeemably evil, it is no longer a demon.

Like most things that originated in a religious mindset it's not necessarily logical nor is it really meant to be?

[hot marlin]

The word "irredeemably" is interesting here. It generally means "impossible to redeem", but what is redemption? What does it mean? Again, it's a concept that originates in a specific culture, that certainly isn't universal, and only really makes sense in that religious context

Damn, you anticipated what I was going to say

[humble cairn]

I was once arguing with someone about something religious and he claimed that since the word "Logos" was religious in origin and was the root of logic, that logic itself was inherently beholden to his religion. I immediately offered to switch to Sanskrit.

[hot marlin]

Uh... It's not religious in origin. Logos as a word originally just meant "speech" or "language", which to the greek philosophers tended to be equated with reason

[humble cairn]

I mean, not that I'm well versed in Sanskrit at all. But this is just an example of how a certain mindset is so presumptuous. Imagine trying to say that all of logic must bow to your religion.

Yeah he said something about it being about the mind of God or some such. I dunno, I don't claim to understand the argument.

[hot marlin]

Don't worry, there's nothing to understand, that person was clearly quite confused

[humble cairn]

Anyway, D&D creatures are and have been built to be simply punching bags since the beginning. The illogic of that position continues to be pushed back, but there is a strong argument that the very nature of D&D is one of colonialism, that the roots of the game are about going someplace, killing the people you find there, and taking their stuff.

Of course that makes people uncomfortable.

[olive elm]

can someone explain the spell casting focus to me? Im reading its section on the rules glossary but i still aint getting it

[humble cairn]

There's an interesting article about the moral conundrum of Tolkien's orcs. That they are meant to be irredeemably evil, but Tolkien himself wrestled with that.

[hot marlin]

Indeed, at the end of the day, D&D was built as a fantasy western. Bounties on orc heads are equivalent to bounties on scalps. "Civilization vs those wild people and monsters" is the cowboys and their "manifest destiny" pushing west.

Until the fundamental, the rot in the roots, is adressed, we'll keep coming back to this.

[humble cairn]

When you cast a spell that has a Material component, you need to have that specific item in order to cast it. Alternately you can be holding an appropriate spellcasting focus for your class, or be able to touch a component pouch. The focus and the pouch do not work if the Material component has a cost or is consumed in the casting, in which case you need that specific item and only that item will work.

[hot marlin]

Again, we come back to Gygax's most repugnant comment. "Nits make lice" and the horrendous history of that sentence.

[humble cairn]

Yep, and I mean if it makes people more comfortable to tautologically define demons as not-people and they're okay with that for the sake of entertainment that's I guess okay as well? I mean we settle for it all the time in our popular media.

[hot marlin]

(For context, Gygax claimed that killing orcs that had surrendered was good, because "nits make lice", quoting colonel Chivington, positively. Chivington is the perpetrator of the Sand Creek Massacre, in which thousands were killed by his troops. He encouraged his men to kill the Cheyenne children by saying "Damn any man who sympathizes with Indians!...Kill and scalp all, big and little; nits make lice." This is what Gygax referred to as being "lawful good".)

[humble cairn]

And the more ways they can make them less like people. No free will, no reproducing in a manner like humans, originate from the bad place, etc etc, the more people can gloss that over.

[humble cairn]

Yeah he was problematic. Also why I feel Alignment itself is also problematic.

[hot marlin]

Alignment itself, I think, is unsalvageable.

[humble cairn]

Agreed

I mean what is the discerning DM to do? Make every enemy something mindless so as not to have any enemies be people?

It's a possible route.

[hot marlin]

Me, I simply admit that the enemies of the PCs are people. Grapple with that all you wish, or don't.

Well, most enemies, of course. Nobody is saying that your zombies should actually have families.

[humble cairn]

Yeah that's a route, too.

[humble cairn]

So we're including demons and devils in this? Do you drop the idea of Alignment Planes?

[atomic moat]

Alignment is fine as a roleplaying and worldbuilding tool, using it to enforce or restrict player actions doesn't really work though.

[humble cairn]

Disagree to the first, but I've ranted about that enough, probably.

[hot marlin]

Yes. Treat demons and devils as people too. They are the product of a certain culture, a certain environment, a certain ecosystem, like everyone. But this does not mean they can't have nuance.

[humble cairn]

Do you keep the Abyss as a plane of raw chaos? Or just have it be like .. a super hostile environment?

[hoary totem]

I treat alignment as the "norm," due to the conditions in which they are born, devils, demons, chromatic dragons etc are usually evil but this isn't exclusive

[hot marlin]

I don't need the nine hells to be literally built in the source place of lawful evil. That is meaningless, that is too abstract. That they have been conditioned by the most militarized, theocratic, bureaucratic and feudal society, that I understand, that is not an abstract thing. And it's more than enough

[hoary totem]

Opens up plenty more options for warlocks as well

[humble cairn]

And you don't have them be the result of people's souls turning into things after they die?

[hot marlin]

As for the abyss, yeah. I don't need for it to be born of "the source of chaotic evil". I need it to be the place of raw, primal, savage vitality. A place of unimaginable sights, where brutality and cunning are the way of life. Where survival is harsh and difficult, and that is not an abstract thing

[knotty pasture]

People probably do the whole dehumanizing thing because its harder in execution to create antagonists that are well rounded humans/individuals

[hot marlin]

Honestly, the afterlife is the least interesting thing. But yes, sure, the devils can stay more or less the same, with the pacts and the souls and the thingies. Just remove the moral element

[knotty pasture]

If even authors of books can't perfectly nail it what hope have we as ordinary dnd players? Its not impossible per se but it is a high hurdle

[hot marlin]

Because that is too abstract. Excessive abstract thinking rots the brain

[hot marlin]

Strahd is calling on line 3.

Seriously, for all the shade I throw at Strahd for being a misogynistic petty and insecure parody of a man, he is a three dimensional character and a masterclass on how antagonists are created

[marble lion]

i think due to dnd being a game to most people, having a more simple approach to most enemies works out fine for tables

so i agree that its done out of "ease" mostly

[humble cairn]

So .. any soul can end up there? not just souls who do bad things in a more or less organized manner?

[atomic moat]

Even in real life some people are unredeemable evil, not every antagonist should be a well rounded human.

[marble lion]

i dont think thats quite what is tackled. maybe im missing something

its moreso that even an irredeemable evil person (if that exists) would have depth and personality and family

[hot marlin]

I'd go a step further: Only the souls that have been sold go there.

[humble cairn]

That is highly debatable in a way that is not going to follow the rules of this forum, but I don't think it's something that is beyond doubt.

[hot marlin]

The others? Wherever. Dissolve into the astral plane, claimed by one god or another, reincarnate, wander the planes, eaten, stop existing...

[humble cairn]

Ahh, so they have to perpetuate their infernal pyramid scheme or else they get no souls?

[hot marlin]

That would make the society a bit more horrific, wouldn't you say?

[humble cairn]

Yeah, it does.

[hot marlin]

Uh... Banality of evil is a thing. Hannah Arendt, during the trial of a certain war criminal, noticed that the man was... Normal. In the most boring way possible.

One could take it to the conclusion that normal people are the problem and we should kill all the normies. But I don't think that's the point she was making

[atomic moat]

Narcassists tend to have none of those except as a reflection of what others expect, with family being who they are related to and nothing more meaningful outside of ownership. In dnd terms having enemies having morally complex enemies is good, but also not every antagonist should fall in that mold and some enemies are better off having no moral justification for their actions or reedemable qualities, some people just want to see the world burn.

[hot marlin]

Ok no.

[marble lion]

are you saying narcissists dont have personality and depth?

[hot marlin]

Narcissistic personality disorder is a real mental disorder, not some boogeyman. These are people, like any other, who just have a personality disorder.

[marble lion]

indeed

[hot marlin]

Engaging in that sort of rhetoric is deeply ableist, demonizing and dehumanizing.

[marble lion]

every person is a person, no matter how they are

and even someone you consider irredeemable is still a person, not saying that should make you treat them any kind of specific way. but it seems misguided to think there is nothing in there

[atomic moat]

Watch American Pyscho to get an understanding on how narcissists work, the dude doesn't have his own thoughts beyond what is popular, even his speech about Huey Lewis was just repeated verbatim from a review of the paper of the band. Him having no personality or depth to be indistinguishable from all the other VPs was a major point of the movie.

[marble lion]

even that movie, not that its a scientific source, shows that he is more than that

[hot marlin]

... Watch a work of fiction written by a non-psychologist to understand how real, non-fictional people work? You can't be serious

[marble lion]

he clearly has things going on in his head that lead to his behaviours. and i repeat that is a movie made for entertainment

[short brook]

man, I feel like i'm too simple sometimes to talk about these things. But it's still interesting

[humble cairn]

I find the idea that there are "people out there" who are irredeemably evil to be the the shelter for people who lack the conviction to have compassion for all people. sigh but that's pretty off topic.

[marble lion]

but to deny not only compassion but also the simple neutral understanding that there is something behind their behaviour is astounding to me

[humble cairn]

It comforts people to separate themselves from "those evil people" by claiming they're just different. No, we're all just people and we all have that capacity for doing evil.

Whatever evil even is, to be fair.

[hot marlin]

But it's interesting. We see here that the... Well, I call it the moral disease, but we should find a better term, affects more than fiction. When fiction trains people to see others as subhuman, that translates to real attitudes that harm actual people.

[humble cairn]

Yes, hence the possible issue with the colonialist roots of D&D.

When so much of the game is about violence and killing, it means you are always looking for someone or something to perpetrate violence upon.

[short brook]

hmm, what a dilemma

[marble lion]

i do love violent games

[paper portal]

killing people!!

[marble lion]

especially level 1 combat where its so simple that the violence seems a lot more real than when it becomes abstract numbers and AoE

[humble cairn]

Anyway, that's not to say that playing a standard game of D&D is wrong. There's just some uncomfortable truths not very far down if you think about it for just a little bit. This is true about everything we do in society, though.

[short brook]

Oh Yeah

violence 🙂

[hot marlin]

Of course, I've argued in favour of not moralizing D&D, it's not to start putting moral judgment on people for playing D&D

[marble lion]

"i hit this guy with my club and he dies" has a lot more impact to me than "i hit this guy with 7 attacks from my greatsword, maybe he will go down next turn after my cleric also guiding bolts him and the wizard fireballs"

i wonder if that is why i prefer level 1

[gloomy hull]

yo

[paper portal]

yeah killing fictional people is fun and killing real people is bad its like that whole "video games cause violence" thing a while back

[short brook]

I simultaneously hate level 1 and like level 1

[marble lion]

it has a simple beauty, a purity

[paper portal]

i definitely prefer tier 2

[hot marlin]

Oh that stupid rhetoric still continues

[short brook]

I love almost dying from a pebble

I hate almost dying to a pebble

[paper portal]

yeah it mostly died down though lol

[marble lion]

im definitely a fan of the whole quote from scream
horror movies dont create psychos, they just make them more creative

its not quite what i believe to be true but its close

[humble cairn]

Another reason I would love to see (or even work on) a D&D supplement covering a genre like Romance, in much the same manner that Van Richten's covered Horror. It's a genre that somehow immediately makes people less comfortable and for what? Because it involves emotions? I find it a weird thing about society that that's what makes people uncomfortable and not all the violence and killing.

[marble lion]

because its intimacy you dont want to share with everyone

love is vulnerability and intimacy

[humble cairn]

Yeah, still weird.

[short brook]

It was brought up again in a lawsuit against steam

[marble lion]

and ofc it has a lot to do with charisma checks, which make people nervous
noone will laugh at you for not being able to do 500 pushups like your orc barbarian

but fumble on the charisma check rp and some are embarrassed

[dim wasp]

What DnD druid playstyles are there?
Wildshape and Caster or?

[marble lion]

charisma involves you, the player, in a much more direct manner than other expressions in dnd

[short brook]

yes

[dim wasp]

Also what's a meta magic

[paper portal]

mostly druids are casters yeah, they do have wild shape but thats generally a more minor feature

[dim wasp]

Hm ye I was just looking at the circle subs

They seem to revolve around shape

[paper portal]

big fan of wildfire myself

[marble lion]

wisdom and intelligence are in the same venue, mental checks reflect a lot more on your real capabilities as a playeyr
physical stats obviously have nothing to do with your real life skills

[humble cairn]

Not necessarily, you don't have to act out everything your character does. There was a whole Beyond Article about how to do things like describe what your character is doing in second person.

[marble lion]

absolutely true

but if a game was solely about romance youd probably end up doing a lot more of that no?

[paper portal]

moon is the only one that really uses it, some of the others have their own things that cost wild shapes though

[humble cairn]

Again, not necessarily.

[dim wasp]

Tbf tho wisdom involves more knowledge and intelligence is more problem solving

[marble lion]

what would the game be then?

im struggling to imagine a romance rp game that doesnt involve you acting out the dialogue tbh

[humble cairn]

What I meant by not necessarily is that you don't have to act out your characters in first person.

[marble lion]

oh yeah i didnt mean 1st person

[humble cairn]

You can describe what your character does and says.

[marble lion]

right but even that reflects on you as a person

ofc any person skilled at something can "tone it down" to match a character they play that is "worse" at it

[humble cairn]

Are you talking about stats and competencies?

[marble lion]

but the reason its embarrassing is because its something else entirely to pretend to be better at it than you are irl

[dim wasp]

True also I think keeping in game romance seperate from irl romance might be a challenge

[paper portal]

i think its mostly just that violence has become more normalized than intimacy

[marble lion]

violence isnt vulnerable

[humble cairn]

Yeah .. and that's weird, right?

[marble lion]

violence is the opposite, its posturing

[paper portal]

oh yeah absolutely im just saying its not a dnd specific thing

[dim wasp]

I can see this lmao

[marble lion]

i dont think its weird at all

[dim wasp]

Totally

[marble lion]

we are a system that evolved to be resilient and safe

[dim wasp]

Define violence

[marble lion]

showing your vulnerabilites is something evolutionarily discouraged in most settings and only to be done in the right bonds

[humble cairn]

I do. I don't think it should be the norm at all.

[marble lion]

should be? maybe not
is weird? no

i think its very normal that its like that but im not saying it should be

[dim wasp]

Do u mean party-conflict?

[marble lion]

though i personally find it fine but i respect you thinking otherwise

[marble lion]

no just people being fine with engaging with violence in general while shying away from emotional things like affection and romance

[dim wasp]

I'm not sure I understand?

[paper portal]

i think theres nothing wrong with violence in media its just kinda strange that we're okay with heads being chopped off more than people kissing

[dim wasp]

Nvm

[severe rampart]

Indeed

[humble cairn]

I think this is cultural conditioning and not universally human.

[dim wasp]

Well tbf Violence can be dismissed as a need for survival

So hence why it's easier to overlook

But if we look at romance

[marble lion]

maybe an example?
players blush and stumble over words when RPing an intimate heart to heart
but will turn into 10 star actors when doing battlecries or describing cool combos with their sword

[humble cairn]

I think there are cultures in which this is not the norm and so I don't think it's somehow universal.

[dim wasp]

Well what's wrong with being a clutz when doing romance

[marble lion]

social life has developed through millennia just like genetic evolution

[severe rampart]

probably nervousness?

[dim wasp]

love headbutts

[humble cairn]

But I also think that the culture of violence and emotional distance is something that has been exported everywhere.

[marble lion]

i didnt say its wrong at all though

[dim wasp]

I mean it's awkward to rp romance I can't lie

[marble lion]

i recommend reading the talk because you might be misinterpreting what im saying

[paper portal]

if someone does that to me im falling in love on the spot fr

[severe rampart]

It's much harder to be charismatic (in a romantic way) than to be charismatic in a "cool" way

[dim wasp]

Unless u 2 are actually dating and are comfortable with it in the party

[humble cairn]

Ehh ... so much of it is propagated as a system to benefit certain people.

[knotty pasture]

There's more shooting games than kissing games out there lol, that contributes to it

[paper portal]

thats the real question though, why?

[severe rampart]

also very easy to be cringe 😔

[marble lion]

maybe thats true but it still is what it is until that changes

[paper portal]

true shooting people is fun but kissing people is also fun i wanna do both preferably at the same time

[dim wasp]

turns into owl and pecks at you
Subjective!!

[severe rampart]

in summary, there should be more kissing games

[dim wasp]

It's natural

[paper portal]

is it?

[dim wasp]

continues pecking at u angrily

[marble lion]

i think it is

[humble cairn]

And part of that change is calling out how weird and anti-human it is that we are so much more comfortable with violence than emotional intimacy.

[marble lion]

things dont have to be weird to be bad

[dim wasp]

I mean if you're expressing your feelings to someone

[marble lion]

thats all im saying

[severe rampart]

... in my opinion :)

[dim wasp]

You're putting your trust in them

[marble lion]

i guess its a purely semantic thing

[dim wasp]

continues pecking

[marble lion]

i wouldnt call it weird. if you want to change it, call it bad. call it harmful. but for it to be weird, it would need to not make sense imo

and it makes a whole lot of sense to me

[paper portal]

id say irl theres at least as many complicated emotions involved in killing someone as there are confessing to someone so the fact that only one of them is made awkward is nonsense

[severe rampart]

Welp that's the sign to change topics I think

[paper portal]

yea prolly

[dim wasp]

Ok yk what fair enough

[paper portal]

which warlock invo do you think would be most broken if you could take it more than once

[severe rampart]

I'm playing a Twilight Cleric in a 2014 game for the first time yipeee

[dim wasp]

transforms back into human

[severe rampart]

Agonizing

[humble cairn]

It doesn't to me.

[marble lion]

one is a physical manifestation of dominance and power, gaining control over a problem
the other is putting your trust in someone

i think it makes all the sense to feel vulnerable

[knotty pasture]

Baldur's Gate 4 when

[humble cairn]

Strategically putting your trust in someone is just as much gaining control over a problem.

[severe rampart]

Agonizing Blast, if taken multiple times is crazy damage per beam

[marble lion]

killing someone is like the opposite of trusting someone
you are taking them out of your life
loving them is trusting them with yours

[paper portal]

i should probably do damage calcs for that ngl

[severe rampart]

if you guys don't know calc is short for calculator /ref

[knotty pasture]

But what if you're a Bhaalist

[marble lion]

not that you wouldnt be nervous during it. law and social retribution exist

[knotty pasture]

I trust you enough to send you off to the lord of murder

[marble lion]

oh bhaal what a great god

[humble cairn]

Human strength and dominance over our problems has almost always come from trusting one another. Our ability to adapt the world around us is only possible due to us being a communal species.

[severe rampart]

is Bhaal the goat man? or was he that weird looking person

[marble lion]

trusting one another yes
but not the one youre violent towards

and that trust is not easily given because its vulnerable

[humble cairn]

Not trusting each other is a weakness and represents a roadblock to our survival as a species.

[marble lion]

not if the person isnt trustworthy

trusting everyone is not a good thing to do sometimes

[knotty pasture]

Bhaal is the guy whose offspring seem to be addicted to betraying him

[marble lion]

there is of course a ton of nuance to this

[humble cairn]

Of course, since we're zooming in and out from the species level to the individual level.

[marble lion]

trust can go from "taking a baseball bat into the shower because youre worried someone enters and attacks"
to "i will blindly give my life to you i love you please be part of my happiness"

[severe rampart]

... Cronos?

[knotty pasture]

Sure let's go with that

[marble lion]

feeling nervous or vulnerable while giving that out to someone, not knowing for sure if they will deserve it, is very very reasonable

[knotty pasture]

Granted Bhaal doesn't hate hate the spawn that betrayed him

He just makes more

[marble lion]

have a great sunday everyone, tomorrow is work week again. cheers

[humble cairn]

Well I still feel it's weird that violence is so much more normal than emotional intimacy. There may be a reasonable explanation for it, but I still feel like it's weird because it doesn't ultimately make sense for humans.

[paper portal]

its monday in 20 minutes for me 😭 gotta wake up in 6 hours for work

[umbral girder]

Isn’t Bhaal usually a bloody skull?

[burnt valley]

Why is Karsus so based?

[marble lion]

i wish you a long life so you may have the maximum chance of seeing it shift to what you think is right

can always hope!

[marble lion]

chop chop take pride in it then

[marble lion]

because he is Him
still committed to making a campaign revolving around him

[paper portal]

oh yeah im ranked #1 globally for pride 🏳️‍🌈

[marble lion]

well i meant a more sweat of your brow type of pride. add them together

[paper portal]

damn i thought i was finally being recognised for my incredibly quantities of homosexuality

[severe rampart]

yes queen snaps fingers, and also, Modify Memory is so funny

[burnt valley]

Dont do him dirty pls 🙏

[severe rampart]

One restoration and it's so over

[humble cairn]

Jester and the Cupcake, such good story.

[marble lion]

oh no hed be the good guy
kinda
the patron of the party in a way

ideally id get one person to play a karsus warlock as well somehow

i genuinely stan my biased view of Karsus. i hail him like one might aristotle or alexander the great

bringing the genius that created the true netheril into modern times, with a jaded theme of redemption from what happened when he got overzealous, achieving great things

[burnt valley]

I mean like "he just has a normal lich statblock" type dirty

[paper portal]

tryna remember all the different things that use movement, obviously moving but also standing up, getting on a mount and uhh

what else is there

[burnt valley]

This is very based

I had a character that had him as their teacher

[knotty pasture]

Maybe I'm overthinking it but is it safe to call the god a Cleric worships as a patron god

[humble cairn]

Very niche, but spending movement to use various spell features. The Jump spell (2024) and the Freedom of Movement spell, for example.

[sleek cloud]

Just call them daddy like the warlocks do

[knotty pasture]

But then the word kind of sounded like how one would describe a Warlock

Clerics and Warlocks are more alike than I thought huh

[umbral girder]

A lot of classes got similarities to each other if you dig deep enough

Like Monk and Sorcerers are both classes about drawing in and using power from one’s self.

Or how Ranger and Paladin are both classes who have an identity of it being required to be an adventurer to be their class.

[knotty pasture]

Now that you mention it, Monk always felt kind of religious/priest-y like to me

For someone that falls under being a Warrior class

[umbral girder]

I’m sure there is a link with Barbarian and Druid with primal forces powering them too

Or how Warlock and Paladin are beings both locked into their own personal “laws” but their difference being who enforces it.

[empty thicket]

or in theory any hybrid subclass like eldritch knight or arcane trickster

they use the wizard spell list because in theory, its the only class that anyone with learning can achieve

[stark arch]

Is getting stuff trough suggestion spell the same as robing some one ??

[severe rampart]

No, but spells like that are typically forbidden, depending on the setting

[empty thicket]

when the spell worn off or the people realize whatyou did, they wont like it.

[severe rampart]

Also like... they'll know you're casting a spell on them

it has somatic and verbal components

[stark arch]

thats the thing distription says they dont know if there are charmed or not

[severe rampart]

you're basically breakdancing and singing to them, so they'll know you're casting a spell

[umbral girder]

The rules of spellcasting said it’s obvious you are casting a spell last I checked

[severe rampart]

unless you have Subtle Metamagic

[empty thicket]

still wont risk, too much for what?

[severe rampart]

just scam the powerful wizard merchant, getting your soul binded by a magic item they lended to you, so now you have to go to Avernus to retrieve a magic item that they want, which forces you to kill the wizard or die trying, totally not speaking from experience

[candid cave]

There was never a wizard there in the first place🤔

[stark arch]

if i use the Telepathic feat. could i use that to cast spells that have verbal compontent trough telepathty ?

[empty thicket]

Still dont, testing your luck with such things isnt... the best

[severe rampart]

What about Somatic Components

[empty thicket]

okey, towards who?

[hot gate]

Verbal is verbal, you need to verbalize something.

Telepathy isn't

[stark arch]

ah ok

[severe rampart]

I can probably modify memory the wizard merchant...

[empty thicket]

Becasue what you might want to do now or hte idea you had was saying the spell in your head, no need of feat

[umbral girder]

That is what Subtle spell is for

[manic jolt]

Hello everyone! I'm planning to make a warforged that's main duty was to be a protective iron calvary with field researches from monsters when they went out and about. I'm just wondering if you think Fighter [Eldritch Knight] would be a good pick for him? I'm leaning towards that cause I want a Martial and Magical build.

[stark arch]

like cast suggestion and use telepathy to put words into some ones head ?

[severe rampart]

they will still know you cast a spell

[olive elm]

what does WEAPONS & DAMAGE CANTRIPS mean

[fair robin]

that sounds good

[fair robin]

i guess cantrips that have offensive functions like Fire Bolt and such

[hot gate]

It's a field for summarizing your "you can always do this" combat abilities. Cantrips, like weapons, are always at your disposal, so it makes sense to list them in one place.

[umbral girder]

Does the spell say you can use telepathy for it?

[olive elm]

oh so i shouldn't list the cantrips in the CANTRIPS & PREPARED SPELL section?

[hot gate]

I'd list it on both

[stark arch]

no but i asume the receiving target needs to get a set of instructions??

[hot gate]

The spell section lists all of your spells, the cantrips & damage section lists specific things for convenience

[olive elm]

i still don't get it

[hot gate]

The idea is that you can see on one glance what your "easy" options are. Cantrips and weapons are both really simple.

So you only need to look at your spellcasting sheet if you want to do something more complicate (e.g. cast a spell that uses a spell slot)

[hot marlin]

Hopefully never. 3 was the perfect way to add an spin-off/epilogue to the original duology.

[marble lion]

Baldur's Gate 0
takes place centuries ago

[umbral girder]

Could be the origin of the city

Back when it was people tricking ships to crash in land and rob the wreckage

[olive elm]

chat do i not use any of the weapons property for my sorcerer

[woven flint]

Nope, because Sorcerers don't get them Naturally

[umbral girder]

Weapon Masteries are not a feature Sorcerers get

[fossil hollow]

youre a sorceror, you dont usually use weapons in the first place

[umbral girder]

So things like Nick and Push for example don’t work

[lavish flame]

Baldur's Gate 0 should be a city builder game

[fossil hollow]

isnt there a board game thats a city builder?

[woven flint]

Weapon masteries are on:

Barbarians, Paladins, Rangers, Rogues and Fighters

[umbral girder]

I had a player think their warlock got the Cleave mastery on their summon axe

[lavish flame]

yeah, Cities Skylines has a board game

[fossil hollow]

yeah, but iirc, there was a BG themed one

[woven flint]

You can get Weapon Masteries through a feat! Though it's only one..
But you can change it on a long rest!

[lavish flame]

I'm seeing Builders of Baldur's Gate, so prolly yeah

[uncut zenith]

Yeah the Weapon Mastery feat is basically the “2-level dip” feat for Martials

[umbral girder]

Isn’t weapon masteries a level 1 feature for Martials?

[uncut zenith]

Similar to how Magic Initiate, Eldritch Adept, and Metamagic Adept are “2-level dips” into some full caster classes, Warlock, and Sorcerer respectively. You don’t get the exact same benefits as if you had take a 2-level dip, but it at least gives you a taste without stunting your class progression.

[lavish flame]

yeah but some Feats (Eldritch Initiate, Metamagic... Initiate?) mimic a small dip into a class

[uncut zenith]

I honestly don’t remember off the top of my head. I think some classes get it at 1 and others get it at 2, but I don’t recall

[umbral girder]

I checked it’d all level 1

Fighting styles are level 2 for some classes

[lavish flame]

thats what it is

[uncut zenith]

Either way, it’s still a “level dip” feat

[woven flint]

Metamagic Adept

For some reason they call it Adept instead of initiate lol

[lavish flame]

wack

[uncut zenith]

Yeah, same with the Warlock one

They’re Eldritch Adept and Metamagic Adept

[fossil hollow]

magic initiate should have been named magic adept smh

[woven flint]

I guess Metamagic adept makes sense,
Because really, What the hell is a "Metamagic Initiate"?

[uncut zenith]

Or they all should’ve been Initiate

But it’s not the end of the world. At the end they’re all just “a taste” of another class

[fossil hollow]

for some reason i thought it was initiate for martials and adept for spellcaster stuff, then i remembered magic initiate and... wait, whats the artificer one

[woven flint]

I dunno, actually...
And I've played an Artificer AND used that feat

[fossil hollow]

too lazy to pull up tasha

artificer initiate

[uncut zenith]

That reminds me. Did they make the Artificer feat in 2024?

[fossil hollow]

nay

its... so good a name wotc

[uncut zenith]

I guess the 2014 one still works fine enough so it may not have needed an update

[fossil hollow]

could use a +1

[uncut zenith]

I mean none of the other ones get a +1 iirc

Again, could be wrong

I still haven’t fully gotten used to the 2024 ruleset yet

[lavish flame]

every level 4+ Feat in 2024 gives you a +1 to some stat, its a really nice change

[fossil hollow]

yeah, im saying they could use a +1 if theyre a general feat. ig as an initiate feat, its also befitting if it was made into an origin feat

[woven flint]

Weapon Master feat gets you a +1 to dex or str

[uncut zenith]

And it’s hard to unlearn things you’ve been doing for a decade

[lavish flame]

I play exclusively with Standard Array or Point-Buy, so ppl get really low scores to begin with. I'm loving the change

[woven flint]

That could also be fine aa well

[uncut zenith]

Yeah now that ASI is a feat, it’s nice that so many feats at least give you a +1

[lavish flame]

Part of me wishes ASI was like... more worth it now

[woven flint]

I think they'd have to make Metamagic Adept a general feat because then you're giving sorcerers and everyone else who wants it Metamagic a level early lol

[fossil hollow]

+3

[lavish flame]

if it were a +2, +1 Feat would that be so crazy

[uncut zenith]

I guess ASI is worth it if you roll and have a lot of mediocre stats

[fossil hollow]

or you have a set progression when it comes to your feat choices

[uncut zenith]

Or if you’re playing a MAD character and need some stats boosted before you multiclass or something

And now that multiclassing isn’t technically an optional rule anymore, it’s worth considering

[fossil hollow]

on another topic, im really loving this tyche empyrean im making that has a littl bit of dionysus mixed in

[olive elm]

so like why does my sorcerer get two daggers

do they like disappear after one use or something

[woven flint]

No, they get Daggers because everyone gets a weapon with standard equipment

[fossil hollow]

proably part of your background

and you can toss daggers

[olive elm]

yeah i understand having a dagger but why two

[fossil hollow]

you throw them

[uncut zenith]

Nope, they’re just cheap simple weapons that sorcerers can rely on as a fallback if you’re out of spells or don’t have a particularly helpful damage spell

[fossil hollow]

or youre dual wielding

[uncut zenith]

You can throw one and keep the other on your person

[fossil hollow]

one of them could also just be a designated ritual dagger if you wish

[undone rain]

Or simply an enemy is too close to use a spell

[fossil hollow]

thats what touch spells are for

[woven flint]

Shocking Grasp my beloved

[uncut zenith]

Yeah but you may not have a touch cantrip in hand

[olive elm]

ohhh okay

[woven flint]

Ti, how many times has Artanza used Shocking Grasp?
I believe it's his main attack option

[uncut zenith]

So it’s nice to have something other than spells to rely on, even if it’s kind of subpar

[fossil hollow]

many

[undone rain]

Always good to have a backup on you

[woven flint]

Me when my Cleric doesn't use Cleric cantrips as a go-to

I love Wizard Magic Initiate 🧐

But, now, I've got incentive to use Cleric Cantrips because now I've got the add WIS mod to them pol

I hope whenever OR if Tempest Cleric gets reprinted, it get Shocking Grasp and it counts as a Cleric Cantrip to them 🧐

[olive elm]

"That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon" can the different light weapon be the second dagger?

[uncut zenith]

Yes

[fossil hollow]

it has to be

[olive elm]

yayy okay

[undone rain]

It is a light weapon and not the same so you should

[uncut zenith]

“Different Light weapon” as in a second weapon, not as in a different type of Light weapon

[fossil hollow]

-# trying to figure out how to word if a creature gets hit, they get a card from the deck of many things on them is hard

[olive elm]

do i put the spear and 2 daggers in the equipment section even if i've put it in the WEAPONS & DAMAGE CANTRIP section

[fossil hollow]

up to you. i did both on physical sheets

[uncut zenith]

The Equipment section is just a list of all your gear. Once you equip it, it’ll show up on your Attacks and Actions sections for the purpose of using the digital dice

[fossil hollow]

if youre using physical sheets, the weapons and damage cantrip is where you list your to hit bonuses and damage rolls for any attacks or weapons you are using regularly

[uncut zenith]

I also like to manually equip items, cuz when you do something like dual wielding, you can designate with weapon is in your “off-hand”, which iirc explicitly puts that weapon in your Bonus Action section and affects the attack and damage dice accordingly

[wanton raft]

Oh hi inflict wounds

[wanton raft]

Light As in light with size yeah. I thought it meant light with a name so I thought light crossbow was light

[limber trail]

-# what

[fossil hollow]

dont worry, its not going in the waterdeep campaign

[limber trail]

Okay so magic missile and pray for Donjon

[undone rain]

Out of spell slots

[fossil hollow]

:3

[knotty vine]

i just realized that sorcerer elves might be the move

[knotty vine]

sorcerers get like 4 cantrips off rip

no clue why'd you use a dagger

[uncut zenith]

Trying to attack sneakily

Spells with Verbal and Somatic components make it very difficult to cast without being detected

[tawdry sentinel]

There are some oddly niche situations where the daggers probably do more damage, stabbing things with really low ac when they've got into melee with you and you'd be at disadvantage for a firebolt or whatever

[dim wasp]

U can whisper incantations 😐

Ya all don't think I swear

[uncut zenith]

Per the rules, Verbal components are audible

[dim wasp]

Audible to who

[uncut zenith]

So you can’t really whisper them. Otherwise Metamagic options like Subtle Spell wouldn’t even really be a thing.

[dim wasp]

Bit dumb

I mean it is audible even if not good audible

[dim wasp]

What's metamagic?

[dark pewter]

From the PHB/Basic Rules, wrt Verbal components:

The words must be uttered in a normal speaking voice.

[undone rain]

Perhaps it has a limit. Needs to be loud enough to where its well not whispering

[uncut zenith]

It’s audible enough that you can’t sneakily cast a spell with a verbal component

[dim wasp]

Hm

So you have to be fast with incantations

Also someone explain to me what metamagic is please?

[undone rain]

But wait now i gotta ask. How does a thri kreen cast em then

[uncut zenith]

Metamagic is a key feature available to Sorcerers that allows them to amend how spells function when they cast

[undone rain]

They dont speak normally

[dim wasp]

Hmm interesting like?

[uncut zenith]

For example, Subtle Spell is a Metamagic option that allows you to ignore the Verbal and Somatic components of a spell, which means a Sorcerer can cast a spell without being detected. So long as they have the sorcery points to use said option.

[woven flint]

Thri-kreen can still speak, their anatomy only allows them to speak their own language normally though

[dark pewter]

Thri-kreen can speak their own language, just not any non-thri-kreen languages

[undone rain]

Ah right i forgot

[dim wasp]

What's a sorc point and how I regen it

[undone rain]

My bad, they communicate by clicking their mandables or whatever the word is

[woven flint]

Yeahp, Thri-kreen still audiably cast spells

[uncut zenith]

Sorcery Points are the resource used to fuel a Sorcerer’s Metamagic. They automatically recharge on I believe a short rest, or you can convert spell slots into them and vice versa.

[woven flint]

But thats okay, because we love Thri-Kreen anyway

[uncut zenith]

It’s all explained in the Sorcerer class

[undone rain]

We all love the thri kreen their silly

[dark pewter]

The thri-kreen druid in my Spelljammer party is one of my favorite PCs. We LOVE thri-kreen in this house

[idle oar]

Sorcerer class information for those that are wondering: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/character-classes#Sorcerer

[dim wasp]

Ty

Now to wonder what's the most fun sorcerer subclass

Wild magic doesn't seem too fun ngl

[undone rain]

I should play a thri kreen their very unique

[woven flint]

Wild Magic is incredibly fun to most people lol

[uncut zenith]

Fun is subjective, but for what it’s worth they’re all designed to fulfill certain roles in the party

[woven flint]

Wild Magic Sorcerers can also be incredibly strong

But my favorite subclass for Sorcerer is Aberrant Mind

[undone rain]

Thri kreen and plasmoids are a few races i really want to play

[knotty pasture]

I quite like Shadow Sorc, if only to send a doggo off to the enemy

Who's the Druid now

[uncut zenith]

Like the Divine Soul sorcerer gets access to the Cleric’s spell list, so they make great healers, while the Draconic sorcerer gets flight at later levels and some heftier AC so they can take a punch better than other sorcerers. Then you’ve got Wild Magic which is designed to give sorcerers a bit of “controlled chaos”, which a lot of people like due to the base flavor and fantasy of Sorcerers being individuals with innate magic that they learn to control.

[molten wigeon]

I had a plasmoid in my campaign rebranded in lore as a slime that gained sentience

[woven flint]

I had an Aberrant Mind Sorcerer that was an Aasimar fellow

He was a Herald of Caiphon, created in the beauty of Astral Elves to be a false prophet and doombringer
His name was Z'hass Xolba

[molten wigeon]

I'm planning on playing a pallid elf abberant mind sorcerer here

Inspired by Local 58

[keen kestrel]

My next goal is to play every flavor of sorcerer

[woven flint]

He wasn't an intentionally evil being himself, he was just unwittingly carrying out the will of an Elder Evil

[undone rain]

I should play like one thats made of honey

[dim wasp]

Ya all can put people to sleep at level 1

This is funny AF

[dim wasp]

Hmm

[uncut zenith]

Sleep is a good spell at early levels, but it falls kinda flat at later levels. Granted I don’t fully recall how it was changed in 2024

[knotty pasture]

Also paint the world in darkness too, embrace your edgy side

[dim wasp]

Good thing u can swap it then ey

[woven flint]

I gave the group many tells that Z'hass wasn't an average elvish individual
His lack of emotional response, his almost too perfect appearence, his questioning of basic needs of biological beings (Eating,sleeping, etc)

[molten wigeon]

Good idea. My player's character was a slime that hung out in the feywild by accident and then was like "hey wait a second this is kinda bad" and gained sentience and left

[dim wasp]

It uses wisdom tho

Sorc main casting stat is char

[keen kestrel]

Both clockwork soul and aberrant mind sorc are awesome

[wanton raft]

Skill issue. Use toll the dead

[loud tendon]

It doesn't use wisdom to cast. Its a save the creatures have to roll using their wisdom against your spell save DC. Which would use your charisma.

[keen kestrel]

Now I kind of want a sorc that's descended from devils, where's my fiend sorcerer

[tawdry sentinel]

The enemy saves with wisdom against your save DC which for sorc is determined by charisma.

[woven flint]

Or just use cantrips in general so you don't blow through spell slots unless needed :3
Playing a caster can be a bit tough

[dim wasp]

Oh ok mbad

[undone rain]

Use a weapon

[olive elm]

when writing down the dungeoneer's pack in the equipment section, do I write down the contents of the pack or just "dungeoneer's pack"

[keen kestrel]

Sometimes your other party members can handle an encounter just fine, and you can just use your turn casting a cantrip and chilling in the back

[undone rain]

Lmao i love that

[olive elm]

no wait wrong channel

[wanton raft]

I like rolling d10s

[woven flint]

If you need to write down the dungeoneer's packs contents, you totally should
Its up to you

[dim wasp]

Thunder wave seems strong but isn't ideal for stealth

[uncut zenith]

It’s a solid T1 spell

[flint ledge]

It's like 2d8 and a knockback no?

[molten wigeon]

My current party is a shifter redemption paladin, a dwarf berserker barbarian, a dragonborn armorer artificer, an elf stars druid and a changeling hexblade warlock

[fossil hollow]

as a level 1 AoE, its decent

[dim wasp]

Ye but there's an audible boom within 300 ft

[uncut zenith]

Yep. And iirc it deals more damage to constructs

[lavish flame]

I'd recommend writing down the name of the item and the page number where you can find its contents.

[molten wigeon]

Lots of melee every single turn

[idle oar]

Yeah it's not a stealthy spell

[dim wasp]

Eyyy it's gwynnn

[fossil hollow]

If youre in stealth, why are you using Thunderwave in the first place.

[idle oar]

That's what they are noticing

[woven flint]

Burning hands is also a pretty decent low level AOE, but Thunderwave has a rider effect and a better range so, its typically a better option

[dim wasp]

Ambush

[woven flint]

Thunderwave and Ambushing seems kinda.. counterintuative?

[fossil hollow]

Spells are a tool. You decide when is the best time to use it

[dim wasp]

The knock back?

[keen kestrel]

Pretty much any spell will go against ambushing

[woven flint]

Yeah, but the 300 feet of the sound of a loud explosion

[uncut zenith]

Thunderwave is good, so long as you don’t mind people knowing you’re springing an attack

[keen kestrel]

Like you can cast the spell and surprise the opponent I guess

[uncut zenith]

So it’s good at the top of an ambush, but you’re not gonna be particularly stealthy after the spell’s cast

[dim wasp]

Well ye but you're ambushing those targets not the whole forest or town

[tawdry sentinel]

It's basically melee range so probably not without a bit of creativity.

[keen kestrel]

I mean, you can be a stealthy sorcerer and have decent dex and sneak in maybe

[woven flint]

Well, then the whole town would probably hear it loll

Its ideal to use thunderwave if you're for certain its not going to attract other enemies

[dim wasp]

15 ft cube is melee to u?

[fossil hollow]

for a lot of monsters, it is

[fossil hollow]

Do note to even be hit they have to be within 15 ft of you

[dim wasp]

I can't help but wonder why no one talks about poison spray

It's a d12

[fossil hollow]

Its Poison

[dim wasp]

Yes?

[tawdry sentinel]

Like 2/3 enemies in the mm resist or are immune to it

[dim wasp]

Oh

[fossil hollow]

the worst damage type against so many enemies

[woven flint]

Poison is arguably the worst damage type in the entirety of D&D

[dim wasp]

Magic missile is fun

Pew pew

[woven flint]

Poison spray is good in campaigns where you're not facing

Undead, Fiends, Elementals, Constructs
And then the between of every other monster type that may have poison resistance or immunity (immunity to poison is more common)

[wanton raft]

Poison is a good effect but it's annoying that too many creatures are resistant

[knotty vine]

in the 2024 monster handbook theres like 5 creatures that are resistance to posion

[dim wasp]

I must ask what are the rules for reactions

[woven flint]

Now, there ARE Undead that aren't immune to poison, but thats a whole 'nother thing

[knotty vine]

theres like 1

[dim wasp]

Must they be declared before the accuracy roll?

[wanton raft]

Interesting

[knotty vine]

two since vampire spawn

[dim wasp]

When must a reaction be declared?

[woven flint]

What?

[dim wasp]

To make it valid

[knotty vine]

reactions are just actions that can be taken on another turn

[fossil hollow]

Thats... thats not true

[vagrant current]

guess who got Xanthar's Guide to Everything!!!!

[dim wasp]

Lmfao

[fossil hollow]

You can take reactions on your turns

[woven flint]

Thats a poor way to explain it

reactions are certain actions that react to certain triggers.

[knotty vine]

yeah but usually you wont

[fossil hollow]

you just need the specific trigger

Still wrong

[knotty vine]

i guess there is the ready action

[vagrant current]

like if an enemy leaves or enters range of combat

[dim wasp]

Ice knife is strong

[vagrant current]

whats everyones favorite sublcass

[woven flint]

I.E
Counterspell REACTS to the Casting of a spell

Oppritunity attacks REACT to enemies leaving from within 5 feet of you

Shield REACTS to an attack roll to potentially make it miss

[fossil hollow]

Watchers Paladin

[vagrant current]

*subclass

[knotty vine]

i love yuan ti pureblood

[vagrant current]

yeah no i didnt

[fossil hollow]

cant read

[dim wasp]

I think MM is probably a better newbie choice even if it slightly weaker

[vagrant current]

neither can i, that's why i got it wrong the first time

[knotty vine]

the only reason i prefer pureblood is becasue you can be a human turned pureblood

[vagrant current]

i just wanna be full snake

[knotty vine]

be a druid

[vagrant current]

like full people snake

[void crown]

anyone else feel like the new class tactician is just a class to metagame?

[knotty vine]

pureblood is also a transformation for humans

[vagrant current]

they added a new class?

[woven flint]

There's no tactician class
That's third party

[vagrant current]

oh word

[void crown]

wait it is?

[knotty vine]

not even on dnd beyond

[woven flint]

Yeap

[dim wasp]

How good is acid?

[knotty vine]

wait are you talking about the lord of the rings roleplay?

[void crown]

i thought it was real due to in roll20 it is like one of the classes you can be

[woven flint]

Acid damage is pretty solid

[lavish flame]

5.5e MM has 6 monsters with Resistance to Poison and 119 with Immunity to Poison.

[vagrant current]

im not good with remembering poison damage

[lavish flame]

Thats like 1/5 monsters my goodness

[knotty vine]

oh yeah i forgot they added one more posion resistance

[vagrant current]

actually pretty much any status effect im terrible at remembering, thats why all my preferred spells do single turn damage

[woven flint]

Lets point and laugh at poison damage

[knotty vine]

the posioned condition:

it legit should have been something else

[woven flint]

Lets point and laugh at poison in general (I wish it were more viable, I'm laughing to hide my pain)

[vagrant current]

no cool purple/green themed characters

[knotty vine]

poisoner is a cool feat on paper

[vagrant current]

tbf most of this game is on paper

[knotty vine]

nuh

[lavish flame]

Unironically just being able to demote immunity into Resistance, and Resistance to neutral, would make poison viable

ignoring resistance/immunity would be nice too

[knotty vine]

ive heard mixed things on players ignoring immunity

[lavish flame]

its poison damage tho

[vagrant current]

personally

(i keep forgetting there's five seconds between messages)
I haven't seen any poison immune creatures, and even then, i kinda go out of my way to put in creatures that don't have total immunity unless im doing a bullshit boss fight

[knotty vine]

still

[lavish flame]

its like 70% of Fiends and Undead, how haven't you come across them?

[vagrant current]

i don't put in many fiends/undead in general

most of my adventures are ocean-themed

[dim wasp]

I can't swim owo

[knotty vine]

i hate the ocean

[vagrant current]

most players can't! also, most players don't have proficiency in water vehicles because they don't think they need it!

with any other DM, that'd most likely be true.

[woven flint]

I can swim and I love the ocean 😎

[woven flint]

Honestly, I'd give the proficency for free to a player if they wanted it

[dim wasp]

Ocean exploration is fun but I can't swim

Waaa

[vagrant current]

any of my friends that play D&D with me usually shove the responsibility of captain onto someone, and if they don't, i flip a coin to decide if i make a captain NPC or I just ... have fun :)

one of my players kept using gust on the sails to move faster, and then they rolled too high and destroyed the sail

[dim wasp]

Hawuwuwuwu

I hope they had a backup plan

[vagrant current]

rowing

repeated strength checks

[dim wasp]

Pain

[knotty vine]

the roaring

[vagrant current]

playing D&D with me is a lot like playing getting over it

[dim wasp]

Roaring of what

[dim wasp]

That doesn't sound fun

[woven flint]

The Kraken, maybe

[vagrant current]

nah its like, comedically difficult

[dim wasp]

U think that thing has a mouth

[vagrant current]

i usually do "in person" and a lot of my regular players can recognize the face of "Oh you have no idea" i make right before i pull out some bullshit

[woven flint]

... Yeah?
Its gotta eat SOMEHOW

[dim wasp]

A mouth to roar with?

[vagrant current]

the kraken has a beak, doesn't it?

[woven flint]

Also, yeah, probably

[dim wasp]

HEH

[round bay]

Hey, If i cast Polymorph on myself, do i need to wis save?

[woven flint]

I think a Kraken could definetly roar if it wanted to.

[woven flint]

No, you can choose to fail it automatically

[dim wasp]

What other water dangers are there apart from the Kraken and the Sea Dragons

[round bay]

But if I want it to succeed?

[woven flint]

By the way!
For those who didn't know
You can WILLINGLY fail saves

[dim wasp]

Oh air dragons lmao /j

[round bay]

Oh mb I'm drunk

[dim wasp]

Y

[round bay]

Ty! About to do the Giant Ape Polymorph and enlarge thing

[vagrant current]

you have to work for success, but failure is like the easiest thing ever

[woven flint]

There are certain things you'd probably want to fail saves on
Vortex Warp is the main example I can think of, right now lol

[dim wasp]

Yk u can wildshape into an elephant

That's funny AF

I thought elephants would have a higher CR than 1

[vagrant current]

i don't think druids can learn enlarge?

[woven flint]

They can, My Druid had Enlarge/Reduce

[round bay]

My friend will enlarge me

[loud tendon]

Because you want to polymorph into a giant ape. A town is suspicious of you and want to cast zone of truth on you, your party has nothing to hide so you agree..

A party member casts calm emotions which can help snap you out of a fear or charm effect.

Lots of reasons.

[vagrant current]

ooooh

[dim wasp]

Wowie

[woven flint]

Enlarge/Reduce is on both 2014 and 2024 Druids spell list

[vagrant current]

oh word

[loud tendon]

I failed a save on purpose against gust of wind to get pushed an extra 15ft in a direction i wanted to go anyway.

[dim wasp]

So uh is it just ranger and rogue that use Dex?

Or would fighter and monk go there too

[vagrant current]

i wish constitution was used more

[round bay]

Wait what if i become a Swarm of cranium rats and my friend casts enlarge on me? Will i be a bunch of, huge cranium rats as a swarm?

[round bay]

Yess 💔💔

[dim wasp]

I'm glad it's not

[loud tendon]

Monks do as well, for sure. Fighters can. Everyone can use dex because it helps with ac and dex saves..so melee classes often have a decent amount.

[woven flint]

Figher, Ranger, Monk, Rogue, Paladin

Monk and Rogue mainly use Dex
Fighter, Paladin and Ranger can use Dex Or Str

[vagrant current]

one of you dumps constitution, one of you dumps everything INTO constitution

[dim wasp]

Imagine everyone having like 90 hp

[vagrant current]

i love pulling large monsters out of nowhere

[dim wasp]

U lost me

[loud tendon]

Their base hit die would limit it somewhat, but eventually your casters get higher hp.

[vagrant current]

i mean like, if everyone had a larger HP pool, i would be more comfortable with throwing larger things at them

because i love doing that

[dim wasp]

Ye but it would disrupt the balance imo

[dim wasp]

And I thought artificers gadjets were meant to be pocket devices

[loud tendon]

Its the DMs job to help maintain that balance. So if your party members all ate their wheaties and have high HP, you could add more enemies or tougher ones.

[vagrant current]

i am almost never a PC

[round bay]

Hmm, I'm level 7, should i polymorph as a giant ape or a mammoth? My friend will cast enlarge on me still either

[vagrant current]

mammoth

because then they can address the elephant in the room

[dim wasp]

Mammoth cuz cute and cuddly

[dim wasp]

No they should become a baby

Lmao

Kawai thing wandering around in the city

Jayn wdyt

Shrink or enlarge

[idle oar]

Whatever seems right and fun at the time 😉

[woven flint]

Mammoth, probably

[dim wasp]

But shrink or grow

Is there a spell that does both

[idle oar]

Have seen a druid character use spider climb and then wildshape into a mammoth to drop down on enemies...

[dim wasp]

Oh you've seen nothing

[rough basalt]

That's on the player bucket list

[dim wasp]

Players can turn into owlbear right?

[knotty pasture]

iirc no

[rough basalt]

Not until level 17

[dim wasp]

I think that whatever character I'm playing I would want a mount

[knotty pasture]

Oh huh guess you can now

[rough basalt]

Which at that level.
May as well change into an ancient dragon.

[dim wasp]

Even if it's a Druid

[rough basalt]

With the Shapechange spell

Not wild shape

[loud tendon]

Enlarge/Reduce is a spell

Which one you chose entirely depends on what you are trying to do with it.

[dim wasp]

And scare the shit out of my teammates yes

[rough basalt]

Shapechange is very fun

[dim wasp]

Altho if someone attacks me I will be displeased /j

'How could u not recognise me'

Lmfao

[knotty pasture]

You can use polymorph on an ally to turn them into a T-Rex at level 8 so all things considered a dragon at level 17 isn't that scary

[rough basalt]

Nothing is a bigger powermove than telling the DM "Give me the Ancient Brass Dragon statblock."

[hot marlin]

Brass, of all things?

[rough basalt]

Well it's Ancient White or Brass that I can think of off the top of my head

[hot marlin]

Fair enough

[idle oar]

And then the DM going "Sure. Let me crack open my Monsters of Drakkenheim book here..."

[rough basalt]

Shapechange into horrors beyond comprehension

[loud tendon]

2024 druid standard wildshape only allows to cr 1, owlbears are cr 3. They are also monstrosities not beasts so wildshape wouldn't take.

[dim wasp]

Do ya all have any funny druid stories

[dim wasp]

So it would have to be shapechange

[rough basalt]

Yep

[knotty pasture]

Spike Growth to lock down an area entirely and play tower defense as I pull people in with thorn whip

[dim wasp]

Ok can ya all react with a tick to this if you'd want a mount regardless of whatever character you're playing (just checking)

[woven flint]

I roleplayed my Druid learning his abilities as he leveled up
When he got to flying Wildshapes, he couldn't fly properly because he was still learning

There were other things like that as well, but thats the best example

[hot marlin]

I'm a monk main. I am faster, stronger and have more stamina than any mount

[dim wasp]

Hm

[rough basalt]

I like using mounts on some martials.

Paladins, Fighters, Rangers

[dim wasp]

But mounts are cool

[hot marlin]

Efficiency is cool.

[dim wasp]

I think I'd normally opt for an owlbear mount

(I like owls)

[hot marlin]

In fact, efficiency is the coolest of all things

[rough basalt]

Good luck

[dim wasp]

?

[woven flint]

I rarely use mounts
But my current Fighter does
He just doesn't have one right now at the moment lol

[rough basalt]

Oh right we forgot to buy you a new one

[knotty vine]

i mean if your dm allows ebberon backrounds you could take that one mark

[dim wasp]

It's cool to have one even if their rarely used

[rough basalt]

Eh the town you're in now has horses too

[knotty vine]

if you have spell casting you can now cast find steed

[woven flint]

Well, my Fighters Horse died, it's not that it was rarely used

[dim wasp]

Watch me say that as I transform into a mammoth

Woolly boi

[knotty vine]

what background gives you find steed?

[woven flint]

I mean, basic mounts can be fun
He had that horse ever since he was a child and losing it changed him in a big way
He's not as willing to take risks because he doesn't want to lose anyone close to him again

[knotty vine]

mark of passage

[woven flint]

I think Mark of Passage is House Orien?

[knotty vine]

yeah its one of the houses

[dim wasp]

I'm always cautious but I am at times a bit headstrong or rash

[woven flint]

Yeah, its house Orien, I double checked

[dim wasp]

Or I'm always down to gather data before initiating a fight or mission anyway

[knotty vine]

i love the Jorasco since you can get healing spells as a wizard

[dim wasp]

Uh

How much of tracking is there in DnD?

[knotty vine]

not much

[dim wasp]

We need more

[knotty vine]

its dm depentant

[dim wasp]

I feel like it's fun but overlooked

I'm not talking about human tracking

[knotty vine]

i mean its just roll if you pass you find them if you fail you dont find them

[dim wasp]

More like beast tracking

[crimson gulch]

Hp spell slots hit dice, lots of things to track

[dim wasp]

It could be more clues tho

[knotty pasture]

Its not really a survival in the wilderness game

[dim wasp]

The footprints

[knotty pasture]

How often do you need to hunt someone down lol

[dim wasp]

That's not the point

[knotty vine]

and theres pletny of spells that can just help you track a creature with advantage

such as hunter marks and such

[dim wasp]

I want the tracking experience to be more immersive

Footprints, scales

[knotty vine]

kinda hard when tracking is decently easy in dnd

[knotty pasture]

Yeah there's other ttrpgs for that

[dim wasp]

Maybe signs of the creature eating

[knotty vine]

casue spells and such

you could just use locate creature

[dim wasp]

Ban tracking spells lmao

[knotty pasture]

With things like these its often just rolling for investigation or perception

[dim wasp]

Easiest solution

[knotty pasture]

And then the dm decides what to tell you

[woven flint]

Then they'd be banning Rangers main spell as well

[knotty vine]

if you ban any official content id leave the table

[lavish flame]

fair bit if your DM wants. my party tracks stuff like spell components and carrying capacity

[knotty pasture]

No this is just creating a problem out of nowhere and solving it lol

[knotty vine]

he means monster hunter tracking

[dim wasp]

It's hard to make good story if u find the creature within 5 bloody minutes

Oke?

[knotty pasture]

That's mostly on the dm

[knotty vine]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/2169-locate-creature?srsltid=AfmBOop7RWk_Wct-DAl24CRboXc7SKJA0RZfsDAmKaYhoiCvYQ7MYmHK\

[idle oar]

Sure but the DM has to build their D&D game around tracking/survival.
I mean the rules allow for it but they don't specifically write out a strict process to follow to do that so it's up to the DM to take a look at what the party wants to do, decide what rules and skill checks are needed, and determine what that means in the context of their game.

[woven flint]

The creature could just have a natural Nondetection on it
there's ONE beast that I know of that does

[knotty vine]

making an enitre story around finding 1 creature sounds pretty annoying

[knotty pasture]

Monsters usually don't have the greater intelligence to just run from you either

[crimson gulch]

A great hunt can be a quest allright, or something just an encounter

[knotty pasture]

They just fight lol

[dim wasp]

They can build a mission or two around it no?

[knotty vine]

usually yeah

[dim wasp]

Doesn't have to be the whole story

[lavish flame]

oh i mean yeah my party is searching for the lair of a white dragon at the moment, this game isn't about wilderness survival, but it sure features elements of it

[knotty vine]

unless the creature has something like non dectection it would be pretty hard

[knotty pasture]

Imagine if a mind flayer just runs for its life the moment he got hit by a fire bolt and we have to go on a wild goose chase to find this one squid down

[dim wasp]

Gwyn 😄

[knotty vine]

they could just plane shift lmao

[idle oar]

Sure? I didn't say this can't be done but it's something the DM has to decide on how they'll run it.

[dim wasp]

LMFAO

[knotty pasture]

Quick Rangers, roll a dc25 perception check

[knotty vine]

mind flayers are the best at running since they can cast plane shift without componets

[dim wasp]

what about druids

[knotty vine]

so it cant be counter spelled

[knotty pasture]

Anyone can roll

The point is that it sounds silly

[molten sparrow]

Is there a way to get more stickers? I want to make a house but i dont want just a box

[knotty vine]

locate plants or animals

[dim wasp]

See!!

Nature/Medicine taking more of a role

[knotty vine]

not really hunting when you can just find the creature

[idle oar]

On D&DBeyond Maps? I think they want to bring more but best check in #ddb-maps-vtt

[knotty pasture]

Its not really a Medicine check

Perception, investigation, arcana at best

[dim wasp]

Not really no but they do know their plants

[knotty pasture]

Nature if you wanna push it

[knotty vine]

Describe or name a specific kind of beast or plant. Concentrating on the voice of nature in your surroundings, you learn the direction and distance to the closest creature or plant of that kind within 5 miles, if any are present.

[dim wasp]

Nature cuz maybe they know the ecosystem

[knotty pasture]

Oh if you mean just casting locate animals/plants it just works

[dim wasp]

Medicine cuz they should know their plants

[knotty pasture]

No need to roll again after spending a spell slot like that

[molten sparrow]

yes dnd beyond, ill check that out

[knotty vine]

yeah thats why just hunting a monster would be pretty boring cause why would i look for tracks or other things when i can just find the creature

[knotty pasture]

Either pass a dozen random checks or just use spell

[dim wasp]

What if there's multiple in the area

[knotty pasture]

Neither are v interesting

[knotty vine]

exaclty

[knotty pasture]

But that's a dnd limitation, there's better ttrpgs that support this better

[knotty vine]

direction and distance to the closest creature or plant of that kind within 5 miles, if any are present.

it says creature not creatures

[dim wasp]

Is it DnD tho or is it story telling

I was tryna take the tracking system from Monster Hunter World

[knotty pasture]

I said ttrpg

[dim wasp]

And put it into effect here

[knotty vine]

again adding that to dnd would be meh

[knotty pasture]

And there we go lol I knew it, right so video game mechanics can't really 100% translate to dnd

[knotty vine]

that too

[knotty pasture]

Feel free to find MHW homebrew campaigns though

Just that it isn't/shouldn't be the norm

[knotty vine]

theres a reason why adventuers dont struggle to find monsters in dnd

unless it has natural non dection

[dim wasp]

Defo not a party member accidently destroying an egg and rathian coming along to blast them back to spawn

[knotty vine]

which isnt very common

[knotty pasture]

No idea what this rathian is but neat

[knotty vine]

Divination magic

[dim wasp]

Huhh

I thought u had actually played monster hunter

Waaaa

[knotty pasture]

DM rules things, I don't think DMs really suddenly shout out "you stepped on a random thing, you're screwed now!"

[lavish flame]

honestly I don't think this would be hard to do. Maybe just "Roll survival x times" to find a monster (maybe X is the monster's prof bonus, so tougher monsters need more). I feel like that third-party book Heliana's has monster-hunting rules that you might like.

[knotty pasture]

I hope not at least

No my repertoire of video games is actually pretty small

[dim wasp]

Cool thanksies Gwyn

[knotty vine]

Augury
Clairvoyance
Commune with Nature

[cunning beacon]

I never understood this but how does one unlock advanced racial talents?

[dim wasp]

Hm

[knotty vine]

those are all spells that can help you find a creature

Scrying

[knotty pasture]

Detect Magic(?)

[dim wasp]

Tbh tho the hunt is the main part of monster hunter

[knotty vine]

detect is for finding magic not creatures persay

[knotty pasture]

Or just Enhance Ability/Guidance before you start rolling

[dim wasp]

I wonder how you'd implement the hunting part

[lavish flame]

you don't really. You level up and get new abilities, maybe you grab a Feat thats unique to your species. there isn't much Species development tbh.

[lavish flame]

D&D combat

[dim wasp]

I know that but

[cunning beacon]

I see, thank you for replying!

[knotty pasture]

It feels like its all too easy to set up for disappointment by approaching dnd with the intention of replicating another video game or show as much as possible

[dim wasp]

It has like 5 different moves

[knotty vine]

then you add 5 moves to the creature

[knotty pasture]

Because at that point I think freeform rp is better, you set the rules based off game mechanics

[lavish flame]

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend aiming for Monster Hunter while using D&D. Aim for D&D with D&D

[dim wasp]

Speaking of such combat scenes would be stupidly long in a monster hunter DnD

Lmao

[knotty vine]

not really the combat would be exactly the same

[lavish flame]

only as long as they are in the actual game

[knotty vine]

just now theres magic

[dim wasp]

Have u seen the amount of hit points

One of those large Bois have

[knotty vine]

yeah 300-500 hp on average

[lavish flame]

in Monster Hunter, it often takes 20-30 minutes to do a hunt. The same is true of many D&D combats

[dim wasp]

Oh

But when u get to like urgaan

Or gravios

(early high rankers are stupidly tanky for some reason)

[knotty vine]

thats like 10-15

[dim wasp]

That depends tho?

[knotty vine]

usually i mean

[lavish flame]

in D&D's fiction though, the fights would actually be massively truncated time-wise. I've only had 1 D&D fight last longer than 1 minute of in-game time. That was due to timed waves of enemies getting reinforcements for 8 rounds straight.

[knotty vine]

true

[dim wasp]

I mean elemental attacks most likely wouldn't be able to lay a scratch on them

[loud tendon]

D&d has plenty of tough creatures. Combat can take time depending on if the characters manage to hit, does a creature have resistance to their damage?

You will unfortunately not be able to 1:1 the two because they are built on different frameworks.

[dim wasp]

Truncated?

[lavish flame]

made shorter

[dim wasp]

Understandable

1:1 would be kinda dumb for Monster Hunter going into DnD anyways

Like how are u gonna put a live action into a turn based game

Lmao

I just wanted to bring the other aspects in tho

Dumb qn but does monster hp scale with party size?

[lavish flame]

I also feel a lot of the fun of MonHun is in the technical skill performed while playing the game, and that wouldn't translate to a TTRPG

[knotty pasture]

I think you should look into being a DM

[dim wasp]

Tru lol

[knotty pasture]

Monster hp doesn't scale with party size necessarily but the DM is free to make them scale

[lavish flame]

Nah, monsters have fixed health. Encounters get a larger difficulty budget with more players

[loud tendon]

Rakshasa are a good example here then. Spell attacks auto miss and they auto succeed on saving throws against magic effects and aoe

They are vulnerable to piercing damage if the creature wielding it is under the effect of "bless".
It has over 200 hp.

So you have to rework your parties battle plan.

[knotty pasture]

As they should, bringing 8 people in a 4-6 man campaign is just asking for a steamroll

[lavish flame]

So like, a party of 2 adventurers at level 3 might fight 1 Ogre, but a party of 5 adventurers at level 3 might fight 2 or 3 Ogres.

[dim wasp]

Tru tru

Sorry if I'm a bit of a stubborn newbie

[spare tartan]

I’m the highwayman

[dim wasp]

I'm just new in the DnD environment and trynna properly learn

[lavish flame]

Yeah dawg, no worries

[dim wasp]

Don't mug me owo