dnd-discussion

[umbral girder]

Gotta say the amount of magic items I give players is fun using the RAW treasure rules

Because the amount of “is it attunement?” Questions I get and only to crush dreams with a “yes” is fun

[rough basalt]

I like the approach I have with my games in my world which is loot off enemies can sometimes be considerably rewarding, but it's POIs and special quests where you'll get loaded.

[knotty vine]

i still think its funny that you can grapple or shove a creature and Sanctuary still wouldnt end

[rough basalt]

If you don't wanna be in debt to the Unclothed mob

[flint ledge]

Huh? But doesn't that force them to make a save?

[knotty vine]

i know weird right

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/sae/sage-advice-compendium#SAC-Spells-Sanctuary1
No. The Sanctuary spell ends only if the warded creature makes an attack roll, casts a spell, or deals damage. The Grapple and Shove options of an Unarmed Strike do none of these things.

they changed i guess

[rough basalt]

Ye '24 Sanctuary says attack roll, spell or does damage

[hot reef]

2014: should roll on the 0-4 CR table 7 times in a campaign
Eyeballing the table is an average of ~450-500gp
Wow that is high

[dawn otter]

wouldnt a shove give damage depending on where they get shoved

like maybe off a cliff

[knotty vine]

shove doesnt do damage it just prones them

[flint ledge]

Why would they write it like that...

[dawn otter]

but like the cliff

[umbral girder]

Yep! DnD adventures should be getting lots of cash.

[rough basalt]

It's "makes an attack roll, casts a spell or does damage" I just shortened it cause I'm tired and in pain so not thinking.

[umbral girder]

That’s how they get those components, arrows, food, water, shelter, and other stuff

[knotty vine]

debateable

[rough basalt]

I think PCs should have to pay their patrons to be able to take their jobs /j

They can get paid in exposure

[knotty vine]

My Fighter attacks a creature with a magic Longbow and nonmagical arrows. Is the attack magical?
The attacks made by a magic Ranged weapon are magical even if the ammunition is nonmagical.
thats weird

5.5e never even menitons magical weapons anymore

[umbral girder]

The 2014 DMG and Xanathar’s guide even says from levels 1-20 players are expected to get like 5 million ish gold

[hot reef]

Even the official adventures don’t give out this much
iirc (spoilers for an adventure) ||LMoP gives out maybe around 200 for clearing the cave, including returning the cargo and selling goblin weapons|| which is after 2 sessions average

[knotty vine]

but real how many games go past level 10 through

[umbral girder]

||don’t forget the statue with gems and items on the monsters and the healing potions||

[hot reef]

||counting those (it’ll vary by DM how much the weapons sell for) also healing potions?||

[knotty vine]

also where did you get 5 million gold from? dnd over estimates lol

that too

[rough basalt]

Every Bandit needs 300 gold on them.

[knotty vine]

not every place is gonna buy your random gems

[umbral girder]

8 rolls on the Cr17+ table it says so roughly 4 million on that alone and then all the other tiers of play rolls also give cash

[flint ledge]

Honestly the dnd economy is so absolutely broken 😭

[hot reef]

One quest and the local noble will be broke having to buy it

[hot reef]

I thought it was bad but not that bad

[umbral girder]

Metallic dragons, extra planar dudes, spellcasters, etc would want your gems

[knotty vine]

i cant see a dnd charactering making million gold none the less needing that much

[knotty vine]

ah yes the very rare creatures that more often then not want to kill you want your gems

[hot reef]

Not sure if all settings even have a banking system set up for that

[knotty vine]

i doubt it

5 million is a stupidly high ball estimate

[umbral girder]

You can even build a castle for 500,000gp per the 2014 DMG too

[knotty vine]

pretty sure the DMG is mainly for dms not players

[knotty pasture]

Build Tasha's Gate with 5 million

[umbral girder]

Even has maintenance costs. Reminds me of bastions

[knotty vine]

i still cant see an adventurer making over 100k

where would he even put all that gold

[umbral girder]

Banks, Demiplanes, vaults, their own castle, portable holes, etc

[flint ledge]

1 pound of crops is supposedly worth 1 copper

That means 100 pounds of crops are worth the same as one spear

[hot reef]

At that point the equivalent reward would just be the seal of royalty and they could buy whatever they wanted within reason

[umbral girder]

Someone actually did the math that over 17 million coins can fit in a portable hole

[knotty vine]

Conjure Elemental (p. 254)
In the “Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot” subsection, “2d8” is now “1d8.”

Conjure Fey (p. 255)
In the “Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot” subsection, “2d12” is now “1d12.”

Conjure Minor Elementals (p. 254)
In the “Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot” subsection, “2d8” is now “1d8.”

cant believe these made it through

[umbral girder]

Also you got things that are expensive

Like a 9th level spell scroll costing 100k gp

Very rare potions around 20k each etc. Magic ammos

[knotty vine]

thats still no where near 5 million levels of gold

and again a lot of that stuff is very dm dependent not every dm just gives you 400 gold a session

[hot reef]

I don’t think these are even for sale in a lot of campaigns

[polar mortar]

My campaign you are lucky to get any at all

But ita because of the setting

[knotty vine]

Cannibalism and Sacrifice (p. 99)
This sidebar has been removed. this is a wild thing to read from dnd

[flint ledge]

Oh so now cannibalism is free

[knotty vine]

im going back and looking through sage advice and they sometimes update old legacy content

[flint ledge]

Reminds me of the time one of my players tried arguing how eating lizardfolk wasn't cannibalism. Very odd thing

[knotty vine]

Lawful Good. “Gold dragons and paladins are typically lawful good.”

Neutral Good. “Many celestials are neutral good.”

Chaotic Good. “Copper dragons and unicorns are typically chaotic good.”

Lawful Neutral. “Modrons and many wizards and monks are lawful neutral.”

Neutral.“Druids are traditionally neutral, as are typical townsfolk.”

Chaotic Neutral. “Many rogues and bards are chaotic neutral.”

Lawful Evil. “Devils and blue dragons are typically lawful evil.”

Neutral Evil. “Yugoloths are typically neutral evil.”

Chaotic Evil. “Demons and red dragons are typically chaotic evil.”

[knotty vine]

eating any humanoid i think is you know

[flint ledge]

That's what I told him

[umbral girder]

Yeah it’s a tier 4 thing of getting these types of places unlocked

[solar elm]

If I buy a book on dnd beyond without a subscription can use the stuff in the books on characters or no?

[knotty vine]

yeah you should be

[umbral girder]

Something both 2014 and 2024 DMG talks about is having legendary items for sale is by getting in contact with powerful groups. 2024 listed Sigil and the City of Brass as places you can get Legendary Magic items for sale

That’s something I like about 2024 they actually gave civilization sizes for where to buy certain magic items

[knotty vine]

love how you cant wish for a legendary magic item but you can sell them

[flint ledge]

I always think to myself... Why would anyone be selling a legendary item

[solar elm]

Kk I was just wondering cause I was planning on getting one of the players hand book to get all the different subclasses and what not that are in the players handbook

[knotty vine]

thats a good question

[uncut zenith]

You can wish for a legendary item, the DM just gets to decide whether to grant your wish or not

[knotty vine]

Similarly, wishing for a Legendary magic item or an Artifact might instantly transport you to the presence of the item’s current owner

[umbral girder]

Don’t need it or need money for one they actually want

Or just to flex how stupid rich they are for the power high of it

[knotty vine]

i feel like your still high balling a lot

[flint ledge]

Outside of other adventurers who would be that picky? I feel like any powerful organization has a use for any legendary magic item

[umbral girder]

Like an Archmage might not care for a ring of three wishes if they can already cast wish. So they might want something to further their studies with a different item.

[umbral girder]

Dragons, demigods, the Sultans of the City of Brass, and probably more

Mystra’s chosen spreading magic items again

[knotty vine]

do these things just always exist in your games or something>?

i feel like im missing something

[umbral girder]

Yeah why not?

All the Monster Manual guys exist in my world and plane shift is a spell after all.

Gate is also a spell too.

[woven flint]

They always exist in general, lol
They're just not always accessible

[knotty vine]

cause last time i checked demi gods dont exist

[umbral girder]

They very much do. They are even talked about in the 2014 DMG.

[woven flint]

Karsus was a Demigod

[knotty vine]

i mean demi gods and dragon that wont just turn you to sunder for having the gual to talk to them

[flint ledge]

Well they are name dropped in the 2024 DMG but never statted

[umbral girder]

The 2024 DMG calls Vecna a Demigod now

[woven flint]

Not all dragons are evil lol

[knotty vine]

alright but where would you find a non evil dragon?

[umbral girder]

Metallics and Gems after all exist

[knotty vine]

just readily there to trade with you

[woven flint]

Look for it in their natural habitats?

[umbral girder]

Cast a spell to ask them

Or pay someone to cast the spell to ask

[woven flint]

Use divination

[umbral girder]

After all you can talk to Gods at level 9

[severe fox]

the way you guys can make dnd look so simple is very shocking yet funny

[flint ledge]

In some cities ironically, although the metallics don't hoard too much stuff I don't think

[severe fox]

hmm yes lemme just seek out a metal dragon to trade my wears with them

[umbral girder]

Sigil’s gimmick is the fact it exists in every possible world too

[woven flint]

Yeah, you can literally find Silver Dragons disguised as Humans or Elves in human or Elf settlements if you're real lucky

[severe fox]

the quest must wait dear party i must go find a dragon

[umbral girder]

Yeah at the level you are buying legendary stuff it isn’t hard

After all you can get spells that let you travel the entire plane you are standing in

[woven flint]

^^^

[dawn otter]

just think of it as something you would do irl loool

[paper portal]

hello chat

[severe fox]

• • (a forked, metal rod worth at least 250 gp, attuned to a particular plane of existence)

[paper portal]

im in the midst of shenanigans rn

[umbral girder]

A guy who can drop meteors and fighting demon lords I think it’s fair you could just go out and find a Metallic to talk to

[umbral girder]

You didn’t read the message

[severe fox]

i dont think you can just plane shift like other creatures can

[umbral girder]

I said the plane you are standing in not to another plane.

Teleport not Plane Shift.

[flint ledge]

I would argue though a dragon wouldn't usually sell part of his hoard for gold

[severe fox]

does teleport allow shifting planes?

[umbral girder]

Why not? Thats what makes their power grow

More gold means their Draconic magic grows further

[woven flint]

He said nothing about shifting planes in general.
He mentioned other places exist, but not that you HAVE to go to them.

[umbral girder]

Once again you didn’t read it

[flint ledge]

I don't think that's true anymore? A lot of dragons don't even hoard gold

[knotty vine]

still not every module is as simple as buy sell buy sell buy sell

[umbral girder]

It’s in Fizban’s and in the 2025 Book of Dragons

It’s very much in fact true.

[knotty vine]

Fizban doesnt have a 2024 book?

[woven flint]

Yeah, well. Obviously?
We're just talking about incredibly high level adventurers looking for Legendary items, though.

[blissful ibex]

They hoard vakluables at least; not necessarially gold; especially if you use Fizban rules XD

[knotty vine]

no they high balled out of the bark and said if you go from level 1-20 you should be able to get 5 million gold

[umbral girder]

Once again, Book of Dragons the 2025 Lore book is out for months now

[dawn otter]

that would have settled how players can get 5mill by lvl20 lool

[woven flint]

It's in Fizbans AND the 2025 Dragons book

For someone who speaks about the reading comprehension devil a lot.. you sure fell victim
/tease

[severe fox]

i still cant see a dnd adventurer getting 1 million gold...

[umbral girder]

Why not? They are fighting guys who can warp reality and change the balance of the Planescape

[knotty vine]

the ecomany must be damned

[woven flint]

I can! We have 10k each in Dragon Heist right now lol

[flint ledge]

Again, 100 pounds of crops is the same value as a spear

[knotty vine]

thats again module thing

[umbral girder]

Going to other universes and dimensions and so on. 1 million gold is pretty reasonable after all.

[severe fox]

i didnt even think you could go to other universes in dnd

[woven flint]

Yes, but it's also NOT impossible because moduels aren't the only thing ran ever and always.

[umbral girder]

Also the DMG’s loot table is for that too at that module’s level

[knotty vine]

yeah but its also not the standard

[blissful ibex]

there's multiple spells between 5th and 9th level that'll let you do it

[umbral girder]

Plane shift, Dream of the Blue Veil, and Gate all can do it

[knotty vine]

not every encounter rewards 300 gold

[dawn otter]

half my time would not be spent worrying about gold when traveling dimensions lol

[umbral girder]

No one said every encounter

[flint ledge]

I didn't even know there was a 2025 book of dragons, how the hell did I miss that?

[knotty vine]

i feel like dnd over estimates how oten people reach beyond level 10

[umbral girder]

It’s a lore book so it’s a physical book only

[woven flint]

It is typically beyond level 10 lol
I've often see 12 or 14 as stopping points

[knotty vine]

like 90% of games end by level tends in part due to non sense like this i guess

[umbral girder]

Most modules are after level 10 yep

And I think almost every game I have has gone up to tier 4 with Phandelvar being the exception and one shots

[knotty vine]

i cant even think of 5 moduels after level 14-20

[flint ledge]

Ohhh it's a FR book right?

[woven flint]

The ORIGINAL argument wasn't for how easy it'd be to find Legendary items in general, by the way
It was how players at the level they'd typically FIND Legendary items would have tools to find them easier.

[umbral girder]

Multiverse

It talks about dragons in pretty much every setting

[knotty vine]

no the orginal arguemnt is that getting 5 million gold from 1-20 is a wild a wild statement

[umbral girder]

Has some sick artwork of Sardior in it

[knotty vine]

but i guess not

[woven flint]

It's not, really lol

[umbral girder]

Also 5 million is split up by the party

[blissful ibex]

oodles of divination spells or money to pay people to use them, connections, the ability to hop between worlds, the ability to take out greater threats, etc.

[umbral girder]

And spent over the adventures from level 1-20 too

[severe fox]

its easier said then done ill tell you that much

besides high level dnd is fun but it gets tiring over time

[umbral girder]

The Potions of Damage resistance economy is in shambles in my 2024 games now. Since the Rings no longer have attunement

[severe fox]

had a boss fight that went on for nearly 2 days

[dawn otter]

was that amount including all the hidden fees that might come the parties way

[severe fox]

add taxes into your next dnd game

the party will be in ruins

[dawn otter]

thats my dnd dream right there

[woven flint]

Solution to all D&D problems?

Don't be broke /joking

[umbral girder]

I have two parties at level 20 right now actually.

It’s interesting to see how much different the amount of loot they have since the first group started at level 1 and the other started at level 10.

[umbral girder]

Haven’t experienced that

At most I had one be the entire session

[severe fox]

anyway moving on is Vecna eye of ruin as bad as they say it is

[umbral girder]

Tokii was there for that.

[knotty vine]

yes it is

[umbral girder]

Encounters need fixing up and has some writing issues

[flint ledge]

Speaking of attunement, I think an interesting thing BG3 did was having limited slots and no attunement. I wonder how that would work in a regular campaign

[umbral girder]

Also ignored all its set up from other modules

[woven flint]

My War Cleric consistently kicked ass there lol

[umbral girder]

Insanely hard to run due to how big your character’s features would get

BG3 gets away with it being a video game

Also the balance would be insane

[knotty vine]

BG3 is a video game for a reason

[dawn otter]

attunement sucks

[umbral girder]

Nah attunement is fine

[blissful ibex]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/equipment#MultipleItemsoftheSameKind that's also technically somewhat a thing in actual dnd tbh

[umbral girder]

It’s like prepared spells but the magic items can usually do much more

[knotty vine]

i guess>?

[umbral girder]

Also wild thing I learned.
A Dragonlance is 20 ft long in lore??? (I am reading the Book of Dragons)

[knotty vine]

i do miss when magic items could use a magic action to cast spell instead of its og casting time

[woven flint]

I don't think I'd ever be able to play a War Cleric that ISN'T Karkas
He's probably the most iconic Cleric character I've played
And he was only existing for a 4 session oneshot
And I YEARN to bring him back (the only character I'd ever play more than once)

[umbral girder]

Amusing a Dragonlance is like Sephiroth sword length.

[umbral girder]

Maybe some day holds knife to your warlock /jk

[woven flint]

I've talked about bringing him back and Nealen even loves the idea of seeing the lad again lol

[knotty pasture]

Technically speaking doesn't that mean it has an attunement cap of 12

[knotty vine]

im getting tired

[knotty pasture]

Cuz there's a total of 12 slots you can equip items into

[knotty vine]

ive been enraged and my day is ruined

good day to you

[woven flint]

Sovis dies

The Hellbringer himself arrives to replace him lmao

[flint ledge]

What's your problem with attunement, I'm curious

[umbral girder]

Notably a ring says “on a finger or similar digit”

[severe fox]

what stops someone from just putting on a ring from almost every damage type?

[woven flint]

Oooh
Karkas the Hellbringer has a nice ring to it (although he hated his Fiendish heritage)

[dawn otter]

yeah most of the time yeah they do so much more idk Im probably more annoyed by the amount your able to use at one time

[umbral girder]

2014 Attunement
2024 nothing

[blissful ibex]

actually geting said rings mostly

[severe fox]

but if you got all the rings in 2024??

[turbid vessel]

Attunement still caps at 3 slots in 2024

[umbral girder]

Only 40k gp to resist all damage that isn’t BPS or Blueberry damage

[blissful ibex]

if the DM lets you have 1 of literally every resistance ring in 5.5e, then that's their own fault and you can wear all of them

[woven flint]

Nealen, if we bring Karkas back, we need to get him rings for the other 6 damage types he wasn't resistant to lmao

[umbral girder]

Rings of resistance are not attunement in 2024

They used to be in 2014

[severe fox]

alright then just a bear totem barbarian

[turbid vessel]

Oh, huh, missed that when I went over the new DMG

[severe fox]

get a ring of psy and force resistance

be an assiamr

profit

[woven flint]

I think Karkas wasn't resistant to..
Acid, Psychic, Radiant, Thunder, Lightning and Force

[severe fox]

i still dont see why ppl thing bear totem got nerfed into the ground

[turbid vessel]

Suddenly the DM seems really adamant on every enemy having the elemental adept feat 😭

[dawn otter]

its not about attunement items themselves more about the amount we can use at a time

[blissful ibex]

My Plasmoid Fathomless Warlock has a Ring of Fire Resistance which gets her Acid, Cold, Fire, and Poison resistances c:

[umbral girder]

Only a good 24,000gp

Which yall got like half a million from Lord Soth’s vaults

[blissful ibex]

also immunity to extreme heat/cold <3

[dawn otter]

like dolly said the only thing holding someone back from forming a damage resistant infinity gaunlet is the slots

[woven flint]

Karkas had resistant to

Fire, Cold, Poison, Bludgeoning, Piercing, Slashing, Necrotic.. and something else? What am I missing

[severe fox]

in dnd the near bear totem resist 9 of the 13 damage types in 2024

[umbral girder]

Seems about right

[umbral girder]

Missing the 14th damage type I see

Good old Blueberry Damage

[severe fox]

get OUT

[umbral girder]

Nothing resistances Blueberry damage. Except a potion of Invulnerability

[blissful ibex]

Boon of the Night Spirit gets you resistance to everything not Force or Psychic when in dim light or darkness c:

[woven flint]

Karkas was a high level Tiefling War Cleric

He had
Fire from Infernal Heritage
Bludgeoning Piercing and Slashing from War Cleric
Necrotic from a ring of Necrotic Resistance
And
Cold and Poison from Infernal Constitution

[flint ledge]

Technically as per the rules you sent you can't

[severe fox]

you can get the same thing if you just have assimar bear toem 2024

[flint ledge]

Unless the DM allows you to

[blissful ibex]

rings are one of the notable exceptions

[severe fox]

how broken with the posioner feat be if it allowed your posions to ignore immuntity as well?

[umbral girder]

Wild also making no sense too

A skeleton being poison or a suit of armor would be that immersion breaking non-sense

[flint ledge]

Doesn’t say it is an exception RAW unless I'm blind

[blissful ibex]

does't also let you have permenant invisibility (so long as you don't do anything other than move) without concentration or spellcasting though

[severe fox]

in game where i could see a man get stripped of his skin for worshipping a certain being a skeleton being posioned is where your immersion is ruined

[blissful ibex]

could technically run around with a ramming aura or something like conjure animals and maintain invis

[flint ledge]

I mean the thing is simply attunement items are usually pretty strong at least in the higher rarities

[severe fox]

someone lights a candle:

[blissful ibex]

the way it's worded, you only need the dim light or darkness to gain invisibility, not to maintain it O_o

[severe fox]

yeah but you lose your resistance

[blissful ibex]

yeah, but you can't be targeted with LoS spells if they can't see you
so it's either wack a mole as they guess which space you're in or they spam AoEs

[severe fox]

also faeire fire exist for a reason

[severe fox]

fireball:

i miss the old alert feat

[flint ledge]

True but it also ends the moment you take an action, bonus action or reaction

[blissful ibex]

again, requires they know which space you're in

[severe fox]

quess work

[blissful ibex]

hence why you use a spell you can move around without one of those such as Conjure Animals

not exactly the best plan damage wise but it's shenanigans

[flint ledge]

A fireball also technically doesn't reveal you

[severe fox]

also by the time you get this ability most creautres will have true sight

[blissful ibex]

also the naritive ability to just quetly nope out which is just fun

[severe fox]

true sight;

i see you

[dawn otter]

thats honestly fair but for the most part I find most campaigns Im in end up having more roleplay attunement items I only get to use combat focused ones if DM lets me pick my own items or something thats not my gripe with them its just I wish we could attune to like one or two more maybe

[blissful ibex]

eating your 6th level spell slot to counter an ability that literally doesn't matter and is basically just a flavor addon

[woven flint]

My Cleric had a True Sight
"I see you" moment
An enemy bard turned invisible and I had the robe of eyes and just waved at him.. looking straight at him lol

[severe fox]

most cretures just.. have true sight

at those higher levels at least

since you know you gotta be 19 minimum to get it

[woven flint]

What?

[severe fox]

to get a boon

you gotta be level 19

[woven flint]

Ah

[dawn otter]

I thought faeire fire was an aoe

[severe fox]

in 24 at least

[woven flint]

Or just have the robe of eyes :3

[blissful ibex]

it is, but if you don't catch the invisibile creature inside of it because you don't know where they are, or they make their dex save, it's not going to help

[severe fox]

a lot of creautres at that level just have true sight built into them is what i was getting at

[woven flint]

My Knowledge Cleric has had True Sight since level 3 or 4 because I got a lucky loot roll and got the robe of eyes lol

He's level 7 now

[severe fox]

the only thing thats really useful with boon of the night is the resistance and again it can be countered with a cantrip or torch..

[blissful ibex]

I have two of them in AL now q_q

One is Harmonious and one has Sentinel: Elementals

[woven flint]

We found out that a Resident in Waterdeep is actually a Rakshasa..
But.. a surprisingly soft hearted one that cares for the people of Waterdeep

[severe fox]

boon of the night spirt when they spell caster there fighting has daylight prepared

[umbral girder]

Did you know Tiamat has a poisonous tail stinger?

[severe fox]

to represent those weird one off dragons yeah

[umbral girder]

Imagine fighting a giant dragon and she just scorpions you

[blissful ibex]

yes, but I have dispell magic and/or counterspell if it actually matters so

[severe fox]

cant counter spell a well lit area

[woven flint]

Darkness

[blissful ibex]

I can Shadow of Moil it though

[flint ledge]

A shadow monk with boon of night spirit seems interesting

[severe fox]

true

[umbral girder]

Wild statements to read like how The Cult of the Dragon are not followers of Tiamat

They just sometimes work with followers of Tiamat

[severe fox]

new shadow monk is much better since its more then just a PWT bot

[flint ledge]

So they worship dragons but not a goddess of said dragons?

[umbral girder]

Yeah the Cult of Tiamat is their own separate group.

The Cult of the Dragon just want to make more DracoLiches it seems

[flint ledge]

What is this? A pyramid scheme? Does the cult of dragons have a dedicated cult as well?

[severe fox]

whats the point of becoming a dracolich when you could become a greatwyrm instead

[blissful ibex]

The Cult of The Cult of The Dragon

[dawn otter]

theres lvls to this dragon cult life

[umbral girder]

Greatwyrm’s can still die of old age is why

[severe fox]

so?

[woven flint]

Dracoliches can also just.. turn off all healing, regeneration and such around them as well..
That's a pretty tempting ability to have lol

[severe fox]

id rather die a massive dragon compared to the likes of gods

then a stupid lich

they arent even as strong as normal liches!

[flint ledge]

What if a great wyrm becomes a dracolich...

[coral burrow]

is this 2014 or does this apply to 2024 rules as well. Creation with a spell slot specifically

[blissful ibex]

except ||Daurgothoth|| maybe

[severe fox]

thats the excpetion yeah

[woven flint]

You assume a Dracoliche wouldn't be working with.. a regular lich as well

[severe fox]

its both

[severe fox]

it might be possbile but idk

[woven flint]

There's a LOT of potential to grow more powerful in Undeath than there is in life

[coral burrow]

thank yall for the info lol because my party spent an hour arguing on this lol

[woven flint]

Mortal bodies have limitations

[severe fox]

we DO have an example of a spell casting dragon and how strong they can be

via Niv-mizzet
https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/175958-niv-mizzet

[umbral girder]

Well yeah Fizban’s and the 2014 Monster Manual and 2025 Monster Manual have spellcasting dragons

[woven flint]

Ah, yes, Ravnica

[severe fox]

i still feel like Mizzet is still one of the strongest

main due to locus of the fire mind

[blissful ibex]

he goes infinite with a single aura (of which there's like 3) q_q

[woven flint]

Niv is the 30 Int dragon, right?

[severe fox]

i still need to know why this one dragon takes spell casting is like "nah imma do my own thing"

he is indeed

[woven flint]

Huh, that's funny...
My Bladesinger Wizard also has 30 intelligence :]

[short brook]

do y'all know which is the strongest statblock in official 5e content is?

[severe fox]

this such a cool ability
Locus of the Firemind. Niv-Mizzet can maintain concentration on two different spells at the same time. In addition, he has advantage on saving throws to maintain concentration on spells.

[severe fox]

depends but i think its the aspects of both tiamat and bahamut

[umbral girder]

Asmodeus from Chains of Asmodeus

[severe fox]

bahamut is slightest stronger through

[umbral girder]

He can summon Tiamat and Zariel as a lair action. What does one do???

[severe fox]

because temp hp spam

[woven flint]

Bahamut when

Max HP Drain effects

[severe fox]

i dont think your suppose to fight asmod

[umbral girder]

Fun fact. Bahamut can be poisoned

[dawn otter]

thats a class I've been wanting to try or it was something simuilar

[severe fox]

well yeah hes a dragon

[umbral girder]

Oh yeah also as a Legendary action Asmodeus can summon a Pit Fiend (no limit)

[blissful ibex]

I just had something utterly attrocious pop into my head so y'all need to suffer with me now...

[blissful ibex]

Polymorph? Call that Power Word Krill

[severe fox]

i mean asmodues is a god so...

[umbral girder]

Asmodeus owns the Action monopoly

[glass granite]

I sea what you did there

[umbral girder]

Also has Wish on his stat block

[woven flint]

You absolutely can fight and beat Asmodeus
If you couldn't feasibly beat something (for the most part) it probably wouldn't have a statblock

It's just incredibly challenging

[severe fox]

summons every archdevil to his aid:

[umbral girder]

Just kill him before he summons Tiamat

So before initiative 20 round 1

[severe fox]

thats.. not gonna be easy

[umbral girder]

700 Hp so yeah it’s rough

[woven flint]

Asmodeus is also said to have a strange sense of honor, so if you play him to character...
I feel he'd only Start summoning other Archdevils if he felt he was losing

[severe fox]

it legit says in his stat block he would summon a projetion of himself to weaken the characters first before fighting

[woven flint]

No, you've got it wrong.
It's to demoralize and PRETEND like he's preparing to fight someone.

[severe fox]

he Devil's Greeting. Within 500 miles of his lair, an illusory version of Asmodeus (as if he has cast the Project Image spell) appears. Asmodeus attempts to communicate with any characters and decipher their intentions. If they're hostile, Asmodeus pretends to prepare himself for combat, in an effort to make the character's waste their resources.\

[umbral girder]

“What can Asmodeus really do huh?”
One Winged Angel starts playing as Zariel blasts into the room

[severe fox]

in an effort to make the characers waste their resources

[blissful ibex]

dude's a troll

[severe fox]

yeah he is

he didnt start ruling over hell for no reason

[woven flint]

Okay, Dolly, I get that you're contrarian and all, but you know Player Characters can just.. NOT fall for the ragebait, right?

[short brook]

Asmodeus is crazy

[severe fox]

idk what a contraian is

also asmod has a rough regen ability that can only be shut down by radiant damage

[blissful ibex]

see, that requires the player characters to actually check if it's an illusion which they have no reason to do because of course the literal Devil God can just teleport in to mess with you

[short brook]

If you beat Asmodeus, what happens?

[umbral girder]

Neat I’m not the only one who noticed that

[severe fox]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/2219-project-image?msockid=09b26f45dfbf635a0f2a7845de126274

[severe fox]

he just comes back 2d12 days later

[woven flint]

Or like.. interacting with it at all physically

[short brook]

aw bummer

[severe fox]

PREPARE THEY SELF /jk it was a troll come face the real me

[blissful ibex]

'casually walks up and grabs the Devil Deity's shoulder like you're about to impart some fatherly advice to him or some shit, idk'

[severe fox]

still 725 hp with 22 ac seems kinda rough to beat in 1 round

even more so with that reaction of his since none of your auto spells will go off if he uses it

there also submission aura

inferal word stun is also a bummer

if you get him to 25 hp and its his turn he can just cast mass heal 😭

[umbral girder]

Another option for super strong stat block is Matron Mother Baenre.

Since she has every Cleric spell prepared and casted at 9th level at will.

Yes this is an actual official 5e stat block

Issue is she isn’t a legendary creature

[severe fox]

im guessing its not on dnd beyond?

i remeber seeing another stat block like that one called..

i forgot his name but it was some kinda lichj

[umbral girder]

It is in DnD beyond

[woven flint]

Drow Matron Mothers in general are kinda scary

[severe fox]

not seeing it...

[umbral girder]

It’s fun how a Drow Matron Mother is a legendary creature but Matron Mother Baenre isn’t

[umbral girder]

I don’t use her first name because I refuse to spell it

[severe fox]

???

[umbral girder]

Quenthel is her first name

Quenthel Baenre

[woven flint]

Yvonnel?

[umbral girder]

From the one module that is in Menzobarrenzan

[severe fox]

that is so funny Spellcasting. Quenthel is a 20th-level spellcaster. Her spellcasting ability is Wisdom (save DC 20, +12 to hit with spell attacks). Quenthel can cast any cleric spell up to 9th level at will.

[umbral girder]

Nah she died a long time ago

Bruenor killed her

[woven flint]

Oh

[umbral girder]

Wait no Bruenor’s dad did

[severe fox]

just any cleric spell?

[woven flint]

Yup, seems so

Quenthel can cast any cleric spell up to 9th level at will.*

[remote tulip]

Heya folks, new dm here 😃

Is there a list of basic spells that I could look at, like stuff that are like the bread and butter of DnD?

Stuff like their applications and such

[severe fox]

she can just spam mass heal over and over

very unkillable very nice

how is that only cr 22

[umbral girder]

Player’s handbook/Basic rules has it

[woven flint]

She could, but it'd take her action for the turn

[umbral girder]

Just look at the first level stuff probably

[umbral girder]

Chill touch moment

[severe fox]

considering shed most likely have allies around i doubt it would matter

[severe fox]

death ward?

[umbral girder]

Also no legendary resistances too

You can hit her with a hideous laughter or something silly

[umbral girder]

Not saving her

[severe fox]

she can also just summon a demon

[woven flint]

One thing about Drow Matron Mothers is that they revel in Sadism under the name of their Goddess, I think she'd sooner let her men die and kill you herself.

[umbral girder]

She is a good tier 3 boss

But falls apart after that to anything stronger

[halcyon forum]

I think to survive, she needs to plane shift out immediately and start spamming a few planar allies before returning lol

[severe fox]

asmodeus is the only thing id consider to be truely unbeatable

[woven flint]

People HAVE Beaten Asmodeus before In campaigns though? Lol

[umbral girder]

Yep!

[severe fox]

those are certain people not just anybody can walk up the lord of the 9 and kill him

and it prob took days as well

[umbral girder]

Level 20 party with healthy amount of gear can ruin him

[severe fox]

not really?

[umbral girder]

The amount of resources and tools you get is crazy good

[severe fox]

unless you do a good chunk of his hp every round he could just summon anay arch devil to his aid

[flint ledge]

He's a major deity in his realm...

[severe fox]

or a pit fiend

[umbral girder]

Pit fiends are considered an low difficulty encounter at level 20

[flint ledge]

How about 20

[severe fox]

yeah but when theres 3 on top of 3 other arch devils on you...

its not gonna look pretty

considering how vastly diffrent the arch devils are

like one of them ignore resistance or immuntity to fire damage

cause hell fire

[woven flint]

Consider that most Archdevils would absolutely take ANY chance they see to betray Asmodeus as well.

[umbral girder]

Easiest way is Wish for a Mordenkainen’s private sanctum and now he can’t summon anything

[severe fox]

eats your wish with a reaction:

[umbral girder]

Because the spell blocks him from trying then you gotta smack him around as he tries to dispel it

[severe fox]

or he can teleport out

or stun you

[umbral girder]

Wouldn’t be hard for the entire party to have wish too

[woven flint]

EVERY Arvhdevil is vying for Asmodeus' place one way or another

[umbral girder]

Blocks teleporting too.

And it’s a group vs 1 dude.

[tame forge]

Yes but there is a reason he is top dog..

[severe fox]

that can someone not 1 but 6 other arch devils

[umbral girder]

Hell 3 fighters with action surge and a decent GWM build could melt him round 1

[severe fox]

on int count 20

[woven flint]

Being the top dog doesn't matter when all your men turn on you at once.

[umbral girder]

Plus the Archdevils would turn on him too if they saw him failing too

[shrewd plover]

the most fun DMs create "unbeatable" scenarios and keep changing goal posts. /sarcasm
D&D is about whatever is the most fun with you and your group of players. People have different kinds of fun. There is no "winning" or "right" way to play D&D and run combat encounters. Just remember that yall

[umbral girder]

Like all of them actively want to replace him.

Even Tiamat.

[woven flint]

Yeah, if the Arvhdevils are ALL being played to character
They'd try to kill Asmodeus if they saw he was getting weakened

[umbral girder]

Realistically you can just turn his summoning into his own weakness

[severe fox]

he could just stun you

[tame forge]

Imagine archdevils having that much loyalty and co-ordination.

Sounds great in theory though

[umbral girder]

Yeah while I lie to say “summon Tiamat and Zariel” they’d both realize “he can’t fight both of us”

[woven flint]

They don't have any loyalty lol
Most of them are just afraid to be demoted.

[tame forge]

Thats the point. They cant all turn at once because of that. Its why he stays in power.

[umbral girder]

Once again it’s a party vs 1 guy.

[tame forge]

Its drow logic all over again.

[severe fox]

that could summon more guys to fight for him

[umbral girder]

Once again it’s blocked

[woven flint]

Also, probably doesn't meet or coordinate with most of other Devils in person

[umbral girder]

He isn’t that hard to counter at level 20.

[severe fox]

he also has this Fiendish Fortitude. The archdevil recharges one of their expended abilities.

[umbral girder]

And?

[severe fox]

and int saves arent the best for most people outside of wizrd and arti

[umbral girder]

And?

[severe fox]

you cant cast a spell if your stunned

[umbral girder]

Unless you are immune via magic items and blessings. Or have someone else just get him for wasting his time stunning one person

[severe fox]

or he could just throw down an anti magic field

[umbral girder]

Plus a contingency spell just stops him from casting anything as well

[flint ledge]

I would like to also point out that an aspect of Tiamat is CR 30, not Tiamat herself. An avatar of her basically and she's a lesser deity from what I know

[umbral girder]

Yep!

Also Tiamat is actively being nerfed being in Avernus. If she got out anywhere that isn’t the first layer of hell she is a Planescape problem

[woven flint]

In Chains of Asmodeus and DIA, you get plenty of items to potentially fight and kill the Archdevils, just sayin'

[severe fox]

true

[short brook]

Archdevils or Demon Princes, what name is cooler?

[woven flint]

The ||Sword of Zariel|| is also right there lol

[severe fox]

archdevils

how des contingency stop him from casting other spells?

[short brook]

I get reminded of Dark Souls 3 demon princes so i'm maybe a little biased to the name

[umbral girder]

Asmodeus trying to stun someone only to be stopped by the humble Fog Cloud

[woven flint]

I prefer calling them Demon Lords

[severe fox]

hes immuned to blinded so no

[short brook]

Demon Lords is cool too

[umbral girder]

Still loses line of sight

[woven flint]

Blinded.
But Fog doesn't blind, it obscures vision.

[severe fox]

it does through

[woven flint]

Obscuring isn't the same thing as Blinding.

[short brook]

I also get reminded of Daedric Princes too by the name, it sounds cool to me

[umbral girder]

The casual mold earth making a wall

[severe fox]

You create a 20-foot-radius sphere of fog centered on a point within range. The sphere spreads around corners, and its area is heavily obscured

[woven flint]

Again
Obscuring isn't Blinding.

[severe fox]

Rules
A heavily obscured area--such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage--blocks vision entirely. A creature effectively suffers from the blinded condition when trying to see something in that area.

[woven flint]

Still blocks line of sight anyway

[severe fox]

doubt but ok

[umbral girder]

Pffft he only has a DC24 Int save? Yeah he is toast

A level 20 party has so much to deal with that.

[severe fox]

anti magic field into spamming summons

[odd valley]

a demon lord is something like orcus or the demogorgon though

archdevils and demon lords are not the same

[flint ledge]

Doesn't chains of asmodeus also very much imply he's not beatable?

[umbral girder]

Why is his save DC only 24? Thats so weak sauce for a Cr30

[severe fox]

idk

[umbral girder]

I got level 8 parties beating DC24 saves

[woven flint]

You misunderstood.
They said Demon Princes
I said I prefer calling the Demon Princes "Demon Lords"

[severe fox]

he has mainly other things going for him like his boat loads of legendary actions

[flint ledge]

Which speaking of if it's CR 30 then it very likely is just an avatar

[odd valley]

oh yeah that makes sense

[severe fox]

its him even if hes killed he just comes back 2d12 days later

[woven flint]

I know that Devils and Demons are different.

[odd valley]

i thought we were calling archdevils demon lords for a second

[umbral girder]

Which his summoning is negated by a single spell

[severe fox]

anti magic field

or again he could just eat your spell

[odd valley]

but yeah i agree that demon lords would make more sense considering there exists female presenting demon princes

[short brook]

coolest demon gotta be pale night, shout out to indescribable horror

[flint ledge]

(I do know 5e doesn't go above CR 30 but that's cause Gods quite frankly aren't fightable in 5e)

[umbral girder]

Now he and his summons can’t do any magic

Also his summoning is magic

[severe fox]

float up summon devil go back in

[woven flint]

My favorite Demon Lord is Baphomet

[umbral girder]

It’s not a static field. It follows the caster

[severe fox]

he has a 120ft fly speed

[short brook]

He's cool too, I read up on him yesterday

[woven flint]

^^^

[halcyon forum]

the summon is not marked as magic

[severe fox]

i never knew that

that is also true

[umbral girder]

It’s why Sul Khatesh has “she is immune to her own Antimagic field” on her stat block

Other wise she is screwed.

[short brook]

I wanted a animalistic demon for lore for my tiefling, but Baphomet being a minotaur was a bummer because I was more so looking for goat like features

[severe fox]

is the summon thing magic?

[umbral girder]

I think making people pop into thin air pretty magic. Maybe even a school of magic specifically

[flint ledge]

Baphomet probably has some goat followers

[umbral girder]

A school of magic that even has a subclass for a very magic class

[halcyon forum]

assuming you dont rules lawyer your way into broken characters, Asmodeus played to his full potential will beat any level 20 party

[short brook]

I don't doubt it, i wish the big man was a little more goat like but close enough

[severe fox]

summons every arch devil to fight for him

i mean there is the tailsmen of pure good

[flint ledge]

He literally has millions of devils at his disposal millions

[severe fox]

it can 1 shot any evil creature

[umbral girder]

Also those Archdevils would actively turn on him if more than one of them were there

[severe fox]

i still think thats not entirely true but ehh

[umbral girder]

“Oh he is actually threatened enough to summon two of us because of a group of adventurers? Sounds like an opportunity!” -every Archdevil

[halcyon forum]

he can also summon 1 archdevil and then spam pit fiends to support them

[severe fox]

The talisman has 7 charges. If you are wearing or holding it, you can use an action to expend 1 charge from it and choose one creature you can see on the ground within 120 feet of you. If the target is of evil alignment, a flaming fissure opens under it. The target must succeed on a DC 20 Dexterity saving throw or fall into the fissure and be destroyed, leaving no remains. The fissure then closes, leaving no trace of its existence. When you expend the last charge, the talisman disperses into motes of golden light and is destroyed.

[woven flint]

Yeah, it kinda is.. at least how they'd act in character.

[severe fox]

you can destory any creature with this thing

in the 2024 rules at least

[flint ledge]

I would also like to point out, even if someone kills asmodeus permanently, I don't think that's actually a good thing

[umbral girder]

There is in fact a reason he stays in his layer

[severe fox]

you canta

Fiendish Regeneration. Asmodeus regains 40 hit points at the start of his turn. If he takes radiant damage, this trait doesn't function at the start of his next turn. Asmodeus dies only if he starts his turn with 0 hit points and doesn't regenerate. If Asmodeus dies, his body regenerates, returning to life 13 (2d12) days later.

[short brook]

Idk if it'd work on Asmodeus, that'd feel so cheesy lol

[severe fox]

it does but it works on any evil creature

[flint ledge]

I'm saying theoretically.

[severe fox]

hed just come back 2d12 days later anyway

[short brook]

Honestly, that's what I was curious about earlier

[severe fox]

killing him long term is almost impossbile as he is a greater god

[short brook]

What even happens if he's done for?...

[umbral girder]

His body regenerates. Specifically. That is very, very interesting

[woven flint]

Another Archdevil takes his place, probably

[flint ledge]

Like lets say you permanently kill asmodeus, somehow some way. Great uhm.... Pretty sure the demons will be enjoying that

[umbral girder]

Because there are quite a few items and spells that target the Soul after all

[severe fox]

even if his body is desoryed im pretty sure it would just come back

[short brook]

oh man an incursion of demons after the death of Asmodeus would be a crazy plot

[humble cairn]

As will all the devils under Asmodeus who will be raring to fill the spot.

[severe fox]

i feel like zariel would take the spot

[humble cairn]

So you'd basically incite civil war in the Nine Hells.

[short brook]

Is there a demon prince on the same level as Asmodeus?

[severe fox]

her or mephistopheles

[humble cairn]

If only because she would be so frustrated at everyone abandoning the Blood War she would take over just to push back against the demons.

[severe fox]

no

[umbral girder]

If he foolishly took Tiamat out of Avernus she would take over for sure

[short brook]

figured.

[severe fox]

hes a god tier archfiend

no other fiend comes close

[umbral girder]

Tiamat slides into frame

[short brook]

Cool guy Asmodeus flaunting his divinity

[woven flint]

Notably, Demogorgon doesn't get the same type of Regeneration as Asmodeus
If you kill him in his realm he just dies lol

[severe fox]

tiamat is a lesser god

asmodues is a greater god

[umbral girder]

Lolth slides into frame

[severe fox]

you do the math

is.. Lolth even a fiend?

[umbral girder]

Also Tiamat is a lesser god in the Forgotten Realms

Everywhere else she is a greater god per The Book of Dragons 2025

[woven flint]

She's held the title of Demon Lord, yes

[severe fox]

ah

[umbral girder]

The main thing is Tiamat is actively nerfed by being in Avernus

[severe fox]

whats up and gods and becoming fiends

[umbral girder]

If she got out of that layer her full power is back

[severe fox]

tiamat doesnt even rule over Avernus anymore s

[halcyon forum]

Lolth is probably the most powerful being in the abyss, yeah

[severe fox]

she got replaced by Zaierl

[umbral girder]

Mainly because “she did a bad job” whatever that means

[short brook]

I did not know Lolth was a demon queen thats cool stuff

[umbral girder]

Maybe Tiamat just slept all day

Maybe she didn’t rule but just went “I AM A DRAGON! FEAR ME!” All day

[severe fox]

i still wanna know why all the Chains of asmodues characters look like doom characters

[woven flint]

Lolth borderline Sucks
If there was a title for most Evil
I think she'd have it 😭

[halcyon forum]

Shar and bhaal exist lol

[short brook]

all my homies hate lolth

[umbral girder]

Maybe too many HR complaints were filed because of Tiamat

[severe fox]

Pain Tax. As a reaction to taking damage, Mammon causes the attacker's valuables to glow red hot. This deals 3 (1d6) fire damage to the attacker for every 100 gold (or equivalent in gems, jewelry, and other coinage) that it currently carries. this is a very funny abilityt

[woven flint]

Well, most Evil as in most cruel and vile.

Bhaal doesn't step ANYWHERE near Lolths plate in terms of atrocities she's forced among her own people

[severe fox]

can you imanage taking 50d6 no save

[short brook]

Bhaal just likes killing

hes a cool guy

[halcyon forum]

Bhaal only lacks the power to out-atrocity lolth imo

not the will

[woven flint]

Bhaal is a bum

[short brook]

also true

[severe fox]

if you have a thing thats worth 5000 gold on you, you just take 50d6 fire damage just because

[umbral girder]

Eh it’s only a bit higher than 24d10 no save which I’ve had at my games frequently

[severe fox]

it scales with the amount of gold/valubles

[umbral girder]

Also only fire? Thought it be something that wasn’t so easy to resist or even get immunity to

[severe fox]

100d6 no save is still very funny for just having a sword

[cobalt owl]

Smote down by the swords original owner

[woven flint]

The Forge Cleric looking at Mammon and just.. blinking

"Was that your grand move?"

[umbral girder]

Yeah not that much tbh

[severe fox]

gives him a neckle of Ferina

[short brook]

I'm surprised Obyriths aren't more powerful than they are

[severe fox]

Fire conjured by Fierna becomes Hellfire. It ignores resistances and immunities to fire damage, deals double damage to creatures vulnerable to fire or necrotic damage, can't be extinguished through any means, and is capable of melting stone or igniting inflammable objects.

[umbral girder]

I hit Tokii’s character and party with 90d6 last Tuesday and they were fine after all

[short brook]

Double damage to vulnerable is nasty work

You just die lmao

[woven flint]

19 Hp, But I was STILL kicking

[umbral girder]

You also had that phase 2 heal also

[severe fox]

yeah but if you do it again thats gg

[umbral girder]

Actually most of the party had a “nuh uh” to dying feature

Seriously I could have done it 3 times and yall would have still lived

[severe fox]

and is also scales with ratiy

[umbral girder]

And I think you guys are level 15 I think?

[woven flint]

Yeah

Searing Vengeance and that one feature from Cartographer Artificer

[severe fox]

if you have a legendary item that could be 500d6

[umbral girder]

So?

[severe fox]

on the low end

[umbral girder]

My players just healed off 3000hp to the entire party Each last session on Tuesday. They would be fine.

[severe fox]

if your not prepared that could easily kill a low level character

[severe fox]

whats your max hp

[umbral girder]

And they are only level 15 with no homebrew

[knotty vine]

i call bs

[umbral girder]

The amount of swinging damage and healing back and forth and negating damage is very frequent

[woven flint]

On what?

[umbral girder]

It was 2990 something but basically it was 3000. It was an over heal but amusing

[knotty vine]

2990 hp yeah right

[woven flint]

I was there.
It happened

[umbral girder]

Good spell Horizon gots there.

[knotty vine]

are you gonna break down the math or just "trust me bro" your way out of this

[umbral girder]

Conjure celestial heals every round. It lasts 10 minutes. So 100 rounds.

[short brook]

thats big number

[woven flint]

Conjure Celestial and healing after a fight

Our Bard rolled all the healing for fun and got 2990.

[knotty vine]

4d12+5 spell casting mod

[woven flint]

• lasting 10 minutes
  Which is 100 rounds.

[umbral girder]

So an average of 3100 with the full duration

[knotty vine]

checks out

forgot they changed all the conjure spells

[umbral girder]

It’s what made Healing Spirit crazy before it was nerfed

Also Aura of Vitality too but that isn’t as nerfed to my knowledge

[knotty vine]

still dont think it did as much as 3000 healing

[halcyon forum]

3000 theoretical healing is very different from actually restoring that many HP

[knotty vine]

yeah thats what i mean

[grizzled lance]

considering you'd have to keep it up for 100 rounds

[umbral girder]

Those 3 Death Knights tried their best but they all fell to the party last Tuesday

Spamming Hellfire Orbs is very fun I gotta say.

[woven flint]

It was hell and I hate you /joking

[knotty vine]

theres also the issue of taking that amount of damage before dropping dead

[flint ledge]

I think any combat that lasts 100 rounds is literal hell

[umbral girder]

That was the Moderate encounter too. Yall haven’t seen the boss fights. : )

[knotty vine]

ehh

[woven flint]

The biggest problem was the fact that we just kinda stayed in a hallway too lol

[knotty vine]

5 billion dinosaurs eat this man

[umbral girder]

Yeah bold strategy. Bright side is I got one of your 7th level slots

[woven flint]

One of Horizons, at least
I'm much more stingy

[umbral girder]

Or was it 8th level? Either way it was a big slot

[knotty vine]

tonight is so much more boring

[woven flint]

As a Warlock, ofc

[humble cairn]

When we ran into Death Knights I used my summoned fey to good effect, if you Charm them and stand in the middle of your allies, they cannot Hellfire Orb the whole lot of you. Charm tanking!

[short brook]

Have you guys ever reach level 20

[knotty vine]

only twice

through those games were a slog in a half in 5e

[woven flint]

A few times (2 or 3?)

Played level 20 a lot for oneshots as well

[umbral girder]

Oh neat they aren’t immune to charm.

[umbral girder]

About 13-14 times

[knotty vine]

ive played countless times level 20 in 3.5e

[umbral girder]

8 of them started at level 1

[humble cairn]

My Summon Fey is a Blink Puppy, he bites them and then gives them the puppy dog eyes to Charm them.

[short brook]

🥲 14.... I got to level 14 as my highest before dnds greatest enemy showed up

scheduling

[knotty vine]

i made scheduling

to be evil

[umbral girder]

I use XP leveling mostly so that speeds up leveling up so much more than milestone

[flint ledge]

I'm probably gonna take my current campaign to level 20

[knotty vine]

i never thought about using xp before

[umbral girder]

Although I did try out “level up every session” before and it was pretty fun.

[short brook]

That seems intense lol

[umbral girder]

With XP levels 5-10 are the slow ones

[knotty vine]

i plan on running ToA someday

[humble cairn]

Story or session based leveling is what I like, rather than tracking exp.

[flint ledge]

XP seems... Eh. I like progression / story based leveling more

[knotty vine]

when are we getting a new book

[umbral girder]

June

[flint ledge]

Summer

[umbral girder]

June is the Ravenloft book.

[knotty vine]

augh

i gotta wait until june

[short brook]

ToA seems like it'd be a fun book

[umbral girder]

Naturally we get a book with Strahd in the cover on Pride Month.

[knotty vine]

ill be dust by then

[flint ledge]

Have we gotten a look into what will be in the book actually

[umbral girder]

We got 3 pages partially

[knotty vine]

i think were getting a dog race or something

[umbral girder]

And an announcement on DnD beyond of what’s in the book

[flint ledge]

A lot of animal species

[knotty vine]

yet we still dont have a dog race

[flint ledge]

Guess they got tired of 12 different kinds of elves

[glad arch]

4 legged or 2?

[knotty vine]

2?

[glad arch]

Bummer

[humble cairn]

Shifters can be all sorts of canines.

[short brook]

I feel like animal species take up so much space lol

[knotty vine]

why would you want a four legged race

[timid anvil]

Well... the Lupin Species in the Ravenloft book might fill that niche if we are lucky XD

[knotty vine]

not really a dog as through

[flint ledge]

Why are you trying to be 4 legged, do you want to use a sword with your mouth or something?

[glad arch]

Who knows

[humble cairn]

Centaurs are four legged.

[humble cairn]

Why ever not?

[flint ledge]

You totally wanna do that

[knotty vine]

dnd 5e not was made to go outside the humanoid body type

the only two somewhat expations are plasmoid and centuar

and that new green race

[humble cairn]

Shifters can definitely be doglike.

[molten pumice]

Sometimes you want to play an awakened dog who took on a paladin oath and the game should take that into consideration since it's not a particularly unheard of fantasy concept

[paper portal]

me irl?

they used to call me green boy in middle school

[knotty vine]

yeah but like taxabi and the lion people are stright up cats

we even got a semi offical jackal race

[humble cairn]

Shifters can be as animalistic as you want.

[knotty vine]

again thats only for a limited time through..

when i think shifter i think werewolf not dog

[humble cairn]

Nah, you can describe them as full on furries all the time if you want.

[molten pumice]

They got whole games about household pets going on ttrpg adventures, seems like D&D would catch on at some point that playing as four legged animals was something people were interested in. Probably just hard because of how broad a category "a literal awakened animal" could end up being

[knotty vine]

not having thumbs would be pretty hard in 5e

[humble cairn]

You could also go play Pugmire. That exists, too.

[flint ledge]

Awakened animals are actually a pretty unexplored topic in dnd

[knotty vine]

what is that>

[tame forge]

Pretty easy for spellcasters

[knotty vine]

marital componets be damned

[tame forge]

Spellcasting focus.

[knotty vine]

how are you gonna hold it?

[tame forge]

Magic collar

Easy one and done

[knotty vine]

those dont exist but ight

[humble cairn]

Pugmire is a fantasy adventure game where you play various dog types.

[tame forge]

A symbol of your clerics order on a collar.

Same diff... innumerous options like this.

[knotty vine]

i was talking about dnd's lack of dog races and you bring up another ttrpg

shame on you

[knotty vine]

still doesnt explain how your gonna do the verbal and somatic either,

[tame forge]

I enjoy D&D but it def falls short of many other TTRPg's

Its just the general well known one

Like the COD of TTRPG

[knotty vine]

unless your a sorcerer

[tame forge]

Verbal is whatever sounds you make, somatic is how you angle and manuever your tail, ears, body position, etc.

Its pretty simple

[knotty vine]

somatic clearly states hands not paws

[tame forge]

Raw is only ever a baseline.

Sticking to literally to things in the face of fun and engaging gameplay is not the way.

[knotty vine]

if you stray to far from raw its homebrew/a houserule

[tame forge]

Which is what 5E is built around.

[severe fox]

5e is built around homebrew?

what a strange system

[tame forge]

Simplifying the system to be more overall compatible yes

[humble cairn]

Why shame? I was just saying a whole game for it also exists if you were interested, but if not that's fine too. No need for the shame.

[severe fox]

i dont think dnd was made for you to play as a literal animal in any sense of the word

[tame forge]

As compared to previously over complex systems that make it near impossible

[glass granite]

Druid wildshape-

[knotty pasture]

But my Moon Druid...

[severe fox]

i said literal animal

like a beast with an int of 3

not a druid

[humble cairn]

There is a completely RAW way to play as a literal animal. Sidekicks.

[glass granite]

You technically can have 3 int from 4d6 drop the lowest

[tame forge]

D&D was quite literally built to have fun playing in a fantasy world with your friends using imagination and dice.

[severe fox]

there is no raw way to play a beast without magic through

[tame forge]

Anything to hinder that is spitting in the face of its origin

[humble cairn]

Yes there is, Sidekicks.

[tame forge]

Why not

[severe fox]

"i wanna build a nuke"

[tame forge]

Any level 20 wizard

[severe fox]

"i wanna remake breaking bad"

[humble cairn]

A system that allows and accomodates homebrew doesn't necessarily equate a system based on homebrew.

[tame forge]

Sure but it was one of the core reasons for the simplification of rules.

[severe fox]

i almost forgot about them

[tame forge]

From previous editions vs 5e

[severe fox]

3e was a lot of fun

i think over simplification can ruin the game

[tame forge]

Literal animal races in 3

Awakened animal is literally a part of 3.5

[severe fox]

yeah but it was built around that concept 5e is now

[humble cairn]

Is this from dev comments? Because I'm not sure it is. You're right that the game definitely allows for homebrew and expects the DM to make rulings when RAW fails to account for the infinite ways in which players can mess around, but I'm still not sure that it's based on or encourages homebrew.

[lethal otter]

good morgnin, how we doin

[severe fox]

homebrew is utterly player made

i doubt any offical thing is like "you should use homebrew"

[flint ledge]

Good morning

[humble cairn]

5E is pretty middle of the road in terms of complexity. I come from games that are much simpler in terms of mechanics.

[tame forge]

Difference between homebrew and minor for fun adjustments to the game like using an animal character

With minor slight modification to how somatic works

[severe fox]

i feel like once you start changing rules thats when it becomes homebrew

granted there is a spell casting otter in DiA so

[humble cairn]

You can just make it completely flavor. Use any current species, say they are an animal that has the ability to do what a humanoid does, including speech and holding weapons.

Done.

[severe fox]

flavor is free

[flint ledge]

What exactly are we arguing about right now

It's not like homebrew is a bad thing, pretty sure most tables do it

[knotty vine]

oh but it can be

what i said

[flint ledge]

RAW can also be bad when there's a very annoying rules lawyer at the table trying to cheese everything

[knotty vine]

i prefer RAI

[flint ledge]

But yes I get what you mean

[knotty vine]

and if i do thing something in raw is stupid for example the new exhastion and eating rules ill override it

[noble tusk]

I'm on the fence with RAW vs RAI i usually just go case by case

[flint ledge]

What are the new exhaustion rules?

[cerulean monolith]

-2 to all D20 rolls, and -5ft to saves. Stacks with each level, 6 levels you die

[flint ledge]

Or well rather what's bad about them

Compared to the old ones

[knotty vine]

you have to eat everyday or gain 1 exhaustion level no matter what

[humble cairn]

I feel like the one sore point in the rules that desperately needs clarification is Hiding and Invisibility.

[knotty vine]

nah leave it as is

[noble tusk]

Hiding is a little jank for sure

[knotty vine]

let true sight see through cover

[cerulean monolith]

Wait wait wait… you need to eat to survive???? I’m shocked

[humble cairn]

I know it has caused a lot of arguments over in Rules. It's mostly the issue of whether or not you can Hide behind cover and then walk out in plain sight and remain invisible.'

[flint ledge]

I mean well I guess I see why. I don't see too much of an issue with it

[knotty vine]

back then in 2014 you didnt have to eat to for an amount of day equal to your con mod

[knotty pasture]

I wonder if Larianbrew is a good foundation for what seems like clearer stealth/hide rules

[flint ledge]

Meh I honestly like that less

[cerulean monolith]

“Back then” it was 2 years ago, I remember lol

[knotty vine]

so you could wait at least 3 days to before needing to eat and suffering exhaustion

[knotty vine]

in fight for survival games having to eat everyday is annoying

[humble cairn]

If you can Hide and then walk into plain sight and be seen, then the Invisible condition means nothing, but if you remain invisible then the Hide action is a lot more supernatural than it used to be. Which, for the record, I would be fine with.

[knotty vine]

granted not every game keeps track of food and water so its whatever

[flint ledge]

I think in fight for survival games that's a core part of the game actually

[humble cairn]

2014 stealth and hiding rules were somewhat arcane but they made sense, so I don't think they need fixing? Are you talking about the 2024 rules?

[knotty vine]

i think id prefer to eat every so often rather then everyday 😓

[cerulean monolith]

The RAW ruling (and maybe there’s a sage advice? I don’t remember) is definitely that you remain Invisible. Personally I think the first issue was making it interface with Invisible at all.

[knotty pasture]

Cold day in hell before I openly talk about 2024 rules /s

I was referring to bg3's hiding rules, since it was pretty straightforward

[humble cairn]

Yeah, it's a problem. There are definitely people over in rules that say the invisibility just breaks automatically if you walk into line of sight, though.

[humble cairn]

Right, but does the 2014 stealth rules even need to be fixed?

[cerulean monolith]

I think the notable difference with BG3 rules is that they assume each character has directional view, which would be a pain to track on a tabletop.

[knotty vine]

does the invisilibty go away if a creature has true sight is my only questio

[humble cairn]

And what are BG3's stealth rules?

[knotty pasture]

If it was confusing enough to cause discourse it could be

[humble cairn]

True Sight is unaffected by invisibility, isn't it?

[humble cairn]

Was it that confusing?

[knotty vine]

yeah it sees right through it

[humble cairn]

Ok so I would count that as being "found" and thus breaks your stealth.

[knotty pasture]

If a player character is in the line of sight of a non-allied creature, and is either in melee range or considered to be in a Clear Area, then the character is spotted immediately.

If they are in the line of sight of a non-allied creature while considered Lightly Obscured and not in melee range, then the player character rolls a Stealth check contesting a passive Perception check by the other creature. 

[cerulean monolith]

Each creature has what amounts to a field of vision. If you enter that field while hiding, you make a Stealth check against their passive perception, automatically failing if you’re not obscured

[knotty pasture]

Since there's a clear line of sight range, you can essentially manipulate enemy line of sight to do all sorts of sneak attacks with stuff like Minor Illusion

[knotty vine]

hiding is super weird in dnd

[cerulean monolith]

But BG3 also use “line of sight” to mean what you’re currently looking at, rather than what you can see from your current position. Because BG3 has directional vision

[knotty pasture]

Though the downside is that, if you're even at the edge of someone's line of sight, you can literally just walk up to them while hiding and they'll never notice you

Its not perfect per se but I think its more straightforward to understand

[humble cairn]

So yeah ... needs clarification.

[knotty vine]

i need that new dnd book

but i already plan on buying foundery

[knotty pasture]

Its definitely one of those things that's simpler to understand when seen through a demonstration video

[flint ledge]

We all would love for them to release a thousand books for us to collect like goblins

[knotty pasture]

Seeing is believing (no pun intended)

[severe fox]

i think i got a sore through

throat

[humble cairn]

Hot tea with honey and lemon might feel nice.

[severe fox]

1 billion curses upon the god that made this illness...

[flint ledge]

You can gargle salt water

[severe rampart]

Funnily enough after DMing a pretty good session I got hit with that, recovered now to DM the following session, Strahd reached me all the way in the real world

[flint ledge]

Strahd sensed you talking behind his back

[empty thicket]

the whole stealth is weird sometimes, more if you go some light classes like Rogue or Ranger

Some have spells that help to it, but in general is... you need either shadows//Cover//other stuff

[cinder timber]

hello erryone

[still plover]

G'day.

[reef tundra]

Hi Zenith

[cinder timber]

how are yall doing?

been a while

[glass granite]

Evenin’

I’m alive

[marble lion]

i am also alive

[reef tundra]

I am undead

Although not the undead creature type

[severe rampart]

It is fine... you could say... All Is Well

[severe rampart]

Technically every living creature is undead

they're not dead are they?

[reef tundra]

… I’m gonna make you regular dead

[severe rampart]

Oh no my undeath!

[flint ledge]

You should be more kind

[reef tundra]

I married Vecna and Tasha. My manners are hardly up to code

[severe rampart]

... Human Vecna?

[reef tundra]

… about that…

[severe rampart]

Time to get back to my human gloomstalker then...

[flint ledge]

That's a good point

[empty thicket]

Just had session 0, the people seem chill so expectations are stable

We might fight godzilla in some point

[elder sleet]

sup guys!

where is everyone???

[paper portal]

right here

[reef tundra]

The business waxes and wanes

It’ll be booming soon

[elder sleet]

K

[severe rampart]

someone get the guy who said the server's always active

[flint ledge]

I mean to be fair it probably is active the moment a discussion starts even at this time

[serene jolt]

I don't expect a primarily American server (speculation because of the activity times) to be active this time of day. 🤣

[reef tundra]

-# Amity once again forgets that time zones exist

[severe rampart]

I am frequently reminded timezones exist

my games are always either extremely early or extremely late

or both

[empty thicket]

yeah, waking up 7am for playing DnD...its something

[tall forge]

Im lucky that i do not have to do that lmao

I keep the 7-12/1am schedule

[severe rampart]

7 AM? Rookie numbers, I got 12:30 AM

[glass granite]

As an Aussie, time zones are a big reason I don’t do online dnd

[tall forge]

Speaking of which, 35 hours until i commit murder upon my party….

[severe rampart]

12:30 AM, play till 3:30 AM, then sleep, wake up for the campaign I'm DMing, then play at 1:30 PM

[undone rain]

So is myrkul a god of death and kelemvors the god of the dead

[severe rampart]

We've got quite similar timezones then

[glass granite]

I gathered from your active hours

[severe rampart]

It's like Thanatos and Hades iirc

[limber trail]

that's rough

I play a nice and clean 7pm to 11pm aussie time

[severe rampart]

I'm dumb, so I didn't gather it from your active hours

[empty thicket]

i try to get the games early so i dont have problems with the fam.
And help me to fix up my sleep schedule and dont get off the habit of waking up early

[glass granite]

Hi dumb, I’m Nugget.
Man it’s been a while since I’ve done that!

[undone rain]

One views death as a tool of fear and power while the other views it as passing with peace and keeping the circle of life pure

[glass granite]

The latter sounds like Thanatos

[severe rampart]

Thanatos is secretly an Aasimar, the fallen one

[undone rain]

Well ill say kelemvor is more based lol

[severe rampart]

It has been a while

[undone rain]

He aint evil, hes just lawful neutral

[severe rampart]

Man, when I can't play oneshots there's a lot of oneshots in the LFG, but when I want to play in a oneshot there's no oneshots 😭

[tall forge]

Myrkul is for death as a concept

Kelemvor is for the afterlife and souls and stuff. The dead

[severe rampart]

... perhaps I can commit to a fourth campaign...

[gaunt roost]

Khelemvor is explicitly so not evil that his entire cult had whiplash when he took over as god of death. The two guys before him were basically liches and were pro undead, and then he comes along, kills the old god, and establishes a no undead policy

[undone rain]

Also a paladin of kelemvor is great as kelemvorians hate undead and guess what class is the perfect undead slayer

[tall forge]

The guy who thrives off of mass death vs the guy who does paperwork

[undone rain]

So edgelord and the regular guy lol

[tall forge]

Also the dead 3 arent reallygods anymore

Ao’s new divine rules restricted them so much they had to become quasi-deities or perish completely

[severe rampart]

Zeus: "I will be the king of all gods, and god of all kings, oh and thunder"

Poseidon: "I will be King of All Oceans, and horses."

Meanwhile Hades is having a middle life crisis, as a god

[gaunt roost]

Also, never forget that Khelemvor actually tried to change the soul policy, denying demons/devils their contracts and plain sending everyone to an afterlife.
As he was in charge of souls, he claimed that no contracts could be made without him agreeing, and he sure didnt agree with selling souls

[tall forge]

The Tablet of fate were remade to pretty much stop The Dead 3s shenanigans

[undone rain]

Ive actually made a paladin of kelemvor, has black robes on under his chestplate and a plauge mask on

[tall forge]

Specifically, the Dead 3 stole the tablets of Fate, thinking they could steal Ao’s power

Ao got em back, destroyed them cause he got pissed

[severe rampart]

I hate technology, why is it so weird 😔

[undone rain]

Makes sense

[severe rampart]

My DnD Beyond sheets have been malfunctioning so hard I oughta just switch to paper

[gaunt roost]

Well Hades is the Oldest one and technically should be in charge by birthright, but all he got is shiny rocks and a lot of souls. Also a dog

[flint ledge]

Didn't that result in all the gods becoming mortals?

[tall forge]

Then he remade them and forced gods into specific rules

[tall forge]

Yesnt

[undone rain]

We dont have any rn:D

[tall forge]

They lost divinity