dnd-discussion

[feral fulcrum]

Technically speaking the effects of the spell being cast, are not Somatic components

Somatic Components are blatant gestures and the like

[knotty vine]

martials

[feral fulcrum]

How sparkly the resulting spell is, or isn't, insn't tied to Somatic

[rough basalt]

Like normally components are you flapping your arms with a diamond in hand while screaming "Hellfire!"

[fossil hollow]

or Megumin's Explosion chant

[sudden hollow]

This nay be my new favorite spell casting

May*

[rough basalt]

It is not subtle.
But with subtle spell you could just be standing there staring and the spell happens.

[feral fulcrum]

EXU SPLOOOOOOSION right that's my spell slot for the day, I take 5 exhaustion.

[knotty vine]

hmmm..

[fossil hollow]

she was def a warlock who begged their dm for a higher level pact slot

[rough basalt]

For example, an Enchanter Sorc villain could subtle spell mass suggestion to cause a riot against the PCs and there'd be almost no way to tell

[sudden hollow]

I think i would allow a mechanic like this, casting above your level at the cost of exhausting yourself

[knotty vine]

i always thought she wa sa sorcerer

[fossil hollow]

archwizard my arse, she met and freed wolbach as a kid

[knotty vine]

ok but if you subtle spelled fire ball would there be a way of telling>

[rough basalt]

No.
There'd just be an explosion.

Unless you're like the only one there then yeah

[sudden hollow]

So the streak is removed?

[rough basalt]

They'd be able to tell after the explosion

[feral fulcrum]

I've got Wish always Prepared, but it gives me Exhaustion each time I use it without it's 9th level slot (Which I'm a few levels from). in my Saturday game

[rough basalt]

Probably not but it's within a fraction of a second.

[viral kraken]

no, that's part of the spell's effect

[sudden hollow]

I want it for my bard. I built him for one thing only but it requires him to be lvl 9 and use spell points not spell slots

[sudden hollow]

So they would know who cast it

[rough basalt]

Probably. Just not in time to counterspell it

[viral kraken]

yes absolutely

[knotty vine]

unless the person is super perceptive i doubt it

[viral kraken]

ya by the time they see a streak they are past the window for counterspell

[rough basalt]

It'd definitely be based on context clues.

[sudden hollow]

My enemies normally are. I will not have a repeat of the great rogue massacre

[rough basalt]

Is there 4 guys in armor and 1 woman behind them with a staff and robes on is just doing nothing and suddenly a fireball blows you up? You can probably guess it was them.

But you're not gonna be able to do anything about it unless she starts screaming and flapping her arms.

[knotty vine]

one funny thing i do is i dress up like one class and only tell dm what my real class is

[feral fulcrum]

I still don't get why people do that.

[sudden hollow]

I was a monk who everyone thpugh was a rogue for the longest time

Thought*

[paper portal]

can you guys think of any features that add to damage rolls rather than dealing bonus damage to a target? only ones that come to mind are wildfire druid and draconic sorc but im pretty sure theres more

[knotty vine]

im a druid (a wizard in disguise)

[sudden hollow]

Its like our changling party member who pretends to be a gnome

[rough basalt]

Reminds me I'm tempted to have my rogue switch to a pink dress over her armor before the final boss.

So she can get started on what comes next after she kills Vecna.

[feral fulcrum]

Like... what's the point of hiding things from your group for cheap, breif amusement that 9/10 times will be seen through pretty quickly?

[knotty vine]

if you use your spells right not really?

wizard has access to plenty of druid spells

[sudden hollow]

For...cheap brief amusement? You answered your own question

[rough basalt]

Level 20 housewife epilogue goes hard.

[sudden hollow]

Its a little thing called joy

[paper portal]

oh also agonizing blast i guess

[knotty vine]

the only class i think would be hard to mimic is cleric

[sudden hollow]

Depends on domain

[knotty vine]

i mean cleric in general

[sudden hollow]

Yeah ik

[feral fulcrum]

Building your charecter around like five seconds of "Haha, it was funny, right guys?" seems like a poor idea for anything but a one shot, or like a handful of games.

[knotty vine]

"im a wizard" said the raging barbarian

[sudden hollow]

Not in the least you think the enemy sees the dudes in robes combing and expects to be duplexes through a table?

Suplexed*

Coming*

[knotty vine]

man that druid looks really weird...

[rough basalt]

Reminds me I wanna play a zealot barbarian that dresses nun-like and acts religious.

[knotty vine]

why does it it know magic missle!!

[rough basalt]

Circle of the Magi (it's real trust)

[knotty vine]

real!

[sudden hollow]

Why does the bard have a greatsword🤣

[rough basalt]

They look it up and it is real but it's not what they expected.

[knotty vine]

that would be such a peak idea

[sudden hollow]

(Galdiator background barbarian)

[lyric viper]

I did have one NPC who dressed and looked like 'a wizard' and talked about his spell book and the first move he did in combat was backstabbing a PC.

He wanted to be seen as a wizard to be both 1) seen as intellectual and respectable, 2) feared incase he'd turn you into a newt and 3) no one would expect him to stab their kidneys.

[knotty vine]

looking like 1 class and doing the things of another is an amazing character concept

[rough basalt]

Tbh it can be fun to move out of typical class stereotypes.

[sudden hollow]

There are sooo many reasons to class dress

And it works great for a lot of classes

[lyric viper]

He also actually did have a spellbook. It was just stolen.

[rough basalt]

Like having a Barbarian that gets Haste cast on him and is like "man I love magic!"

[knotty vine]

seeing the dude in full plate cast fire ball was would scary

[feral fulcrum]

A poor decision in general.

[sudden hollow]

Oh thats just an artificer 🤣

[knotty vine]

true

or that one fighter subclass

[feral fulcrum]

Unless he mugged like, a nobody aprentice that can barely put their robes on straight.

[sudden hollow]

Eldritch knight gets fireball?

[rough basalt]

Speaking of mugging. That reminds me of the funniest case I've ever had of robbery in a tabletop rpg

[knotty vine]

yeah they get all of the wizard spells

[sudden hollow]

Thats cool asf

[knotty vine]

they just have to get to that level first which i think for them is like level.. 11?

[halcyon bison]

For what purpose would someone deliberately make dust of sneezing and choking?
I'm very confused about why this exists

[rough basalt]

My Shadowrun character robbing a pizza delivery scooter from some poor delivery boy cause he got tired of not having a vehicle.

[sudden hollow]

I am definitely going to build a monk who poses as a bard or something

Im not a huge fan of barbarians unarmored trait. Actually kinda hate that it scales of dex in such a strength coded. Lass

Class*

[rough basalt]

Well their AC would get absolutely insane if it was strength + con

[knotty vine]

it would yeah

[sudden hollow]

Like a monks?

[feral fulcrum]

Likely going to be hard given you'll have to go out of your way for a Musicl Instrument, and more then likely profficiency in said instrument.

[rough basalt]

On top of their resisting damage.

[sudden hollow]

They are a tank...thats the goal lol

[knotty vine]

they would be pretty much the best early game class

[sudden hollow]

Like...monks?

[rough basalt]

At level 20 a Barb would have like 25 or 26AC without magic items

[sudden hollow]

Yes?

[feral fulcrum]

They're not really a tank.

[rough basalt]

Harder to break their skin than a tarrasque

[knotty vine]

the main issue is there capstone yeah increases there max con and str by 26

[sudden hollow]

Their muscles are their armor the same way a monks trains let's the dodge or redirect blows, barbarians train their muscles into iron

[feral fulcrum]

At best, they're a half decent hit-point sponge, at worst, they're a constantly critted Hit-point sponge who falls over and dies because they just keep giving enemies advantage on them

[rough basalt]

But then you add a Storm Giant Belt, AC ring and cloak and now they got 30 plus half damage on attacks against them, and advantage on the most common save

And that's without any resource expenditure that actually matters

[knotty vine]

i mean it was the same reason i didnt like monks getting prof in strength saving throws until i understood game balance

[knotty vine]

2bracers of unarmored defense for another +2

[sudden hollow]

I like that my monk can use wisdom for them

[feral fulcrum]

And 2024 doesn't even get the busted Totem barb thing of half damage from basically everything.

[knotty vine]

its not as much as a nerf then people say

[sudden hollow]

Emerald dragon born totem barb. Resist all and fly

[feral fulcrum]

Which, thank god that tuned down.

[knotty vine]

your still resistance to fire thunder acid cold posion

[rough basalt]

You can stack rings of resistance for the ones you don't have

As they don't require attunement

[sudden hollow]

I thought totems get resist to all but psychic?

[feral fulcrum]

That was 2014

[knotty vine]

and the only none rare thing you arent resistance to is nec which mutiple player races are resistance too

[sudden hollow]

Okay thats what I play

I dont touch 5.5e

They messed too much up for me and my players

[rough basalt]

200+HP, half damage on all attacks, 30AC, Big damage.

[knotty vine]

i mean being resistance to all damage at level 3 is still wacky levels of annoying

[rough basalt]

You'd basically be the MC

[sudden hollow]

It would be nice to not die for once 🤣

[feral fulcrum]

Whistles in Charm spells

[knotty vine]

roll a wisdom save

[rough basalt]

Yep that's the one caveat.
Cause now there's two bosses for your party to fight

[feral fulcrum]

Why for doth the DM's always forget about Crown of Madness?

[rough basalt]

You, the actual boss, and whatever charmed you

[knotty vine]

cause im not a humanoid

im an alien

[cursive ledge]

do DMs usually buff non-5.5e cantrips so they scale just like the new ones?

[knotty vine]

like what?

[rough basalt]

I can't think of a cantrip that needs buffed to scale

[feral fulcrum]

It got changed to Creature targeting in 2024

[rough basalt]

Ooo I didn't know that. That's good to know

[sudden hollow]

Kalishtar totem barb. Advantage on wisdom saves

[knotty vine]

buff mind sliver to scale with the damge

the debuff scales with the damage i mean

[rough basalt]

I think vicious mockery should be a d12 /j

[knotty vine]

so it would do 2d6 and minis 2d4 from the next saving throw

[sudden hollow]

The only time I died a bard. I let them say their insult, and then I decided the damage die

Dmed*

[knotty vine]

int saves are your weakness

[sudden hollow]

?

[knotty vine]

besides a really unfair spell is maze

[rough basalt]

Yeah I think that'd get pretty ridiculous later on.

[knotty vine]

in 2014 at least

[sudden hollow]

Never heard of it

[knotty vine]

subtrait 4d4 dm

[sudden hollow]

What level is it?

[rough basalt]

DM adds double their Legendary Resistances

[knotty vine]

8th level you get sent away to a demiplane

no save

[rough basalt]

You need a DC:20 Int check to get out

[sudden hollow]

Ah thats why. I have never cast a spell that high level

[knotty vine]

use it against a barbarian and they pretty much out of the game for 10 mins

[rough basalt]

It's the best spell to use on people with 8 int

[sudden hollow]

Lvl 5 I think is the highest I have cast

[rough basalt]

You got a fighter with 8 int? Maze him

[knotty vine]

get mazed

[sudden hollow]

Hey the i had to go somewhere

Besides im the least threatenting party member lol

8* not i

[limber trail]

For an 8th level spell, it's not that bad. I just suggest approaching it as not something you're gonna get out of with int. It becomes a great target for concentration

[knotty vine]

1 less party member is still less damage over all

[sudden hollow]

Not really

[cursive ledge]

okay so i assumed it applied to a lot more cantrips, but apparently magic stone and virtue are the only 2 "official" cantrips that dont scale but could

[sudden hollow]

I limit the parties damage, remove me and they start spamming upcast aoe

The only reason they dont is so im not hit

Since ill fail the save

[rough basalt]

Well virtues UA, not legal.

[limber trail]

spamming upcast AoE spells isn't always the best choice anyways

[sudden hollow]

Its like... all my party does. I handle one enwmy(normally the biggest) and they aoe the rest to death

[rough basalt]

As for magic stone, maybe

[knotty vine]

id hate to see your party fight like a group of enemies

[sudden hollow]

Our bard loves shatter lol

[sudden hollow]

We normally fight groups

[knotty vine]

action ecomany is the real killer in dnd games

[hidden spindle]

Some could use a 2024 makeover/clean up like these did with Acid Splash or True Strike.

[sudden hollow]

Last combat was 9 enemies to our 5

[cursive ledge]

do UA spells not get scaling, or does being UA just mean you're scuffed?

[sudden hollow]

I handled the 20 ac 120 hp enemy... barely did any damage to him but I was a distraction while the pucked off the rest

[rough basalt]

UA is beta testing

[knotty vine]

i still wanna see if the dead 3 murder squad can be handled by a confidant dnd party

[rough basalt]

Stuff that sometimes doesn't make it into books and if it does you use the book version, if not then its up to the dm

[sudden hollow]

I can hit 1/9th of my attacks and get hit by 1/10th of the ones aimed at me

[knotty vine]

i mean your dm hardly uses saves so i aint surpised

[sudden hollow]

The enemies dont have many🤷‍♂️

[cursive ledge]

so itd be entirely up to the DM whether UA stuff is accessible and whether or not its updated to be in-line with modern stuff?

[sudden hollow]

I think the last one that had saves was the dragon

I take that back. The chain devil had wisdom saves

[rough basalt]

Its up to the dm whether its accessible, and up to them whether they'd allow a community updated version as that'd be homebrew

[knotty vine]

i still think its crazy that one of the enemies in dnd can give you disadvantage on saves for just being within 30ft of it

[cursive ledge]

hmm okay that makes sense, im not rlly sure even how strong itd be with or without scaling tbh

[sudden hollow]

Wouldn't effect me much

[knotty vine]

when it has hold person it can

its a evil cleric type enemy

[sudden hollow]

No i mean im gonna fail anyway

[knotty vine]

it also has guiding bolt as well as cure wounds

[sudden hollow]

So having advantage or disadvantage doesnt do much

I had advantage on 16 of my 18 attacks last session and missed all of them

(During the big battle)

[karmic heath]

Mage slayer or res Wis on worldtree barbarian?

[knotty vine]

then theres the guys who give you vurnerbility

[sudden hollow]

That could be fun

[knotty vine]

mage slayer is only for 1 wisdom is for the rest

[sudden hollow]

My cleric does that

The vulnerability part

[knotty vine]

thats for just being within 5ft of them

no resource cost

[sudden hollow]

That could finally lay bonk to rest

[tough sandal]

Remember gamers, always give your blaster caster just one free room full of enemies to Fireball into.
For fun! :D

[karmic heath]

So res Wis, prevent most

[knotty vine]

i can cast fireball on my self and take no damage

[cursive ledge]

give them just enough rooms to run out of spell slots before putting actually challenging foes in front of them

[knotty vine]

indeed

[karmic heath]

Thank you!

[sudden hollow]

Bonk is tired lol

[stone panther]

alright yall i need to decide whether im going full alchemist or if i should multiclass into grave cleric. the goal is to not have to do any direct damage myself and just assist my party members

[knotty vine]

paralyzed + vulnerability to piercing can kill any unprepared party

[sudden hollow]

Grave cleric is goated for that. You will do damage but give the party advantage

[knotty vine]

not to metion the 6 skeletons

[sudden hollow]

And you can make an enemy vulnerable to the next hit

[knotty vine]

and the master of souls

the dead 3 death sqaud is so goated

[sudden hollow]

What level are you meant to fight it?

[knotty vine]

5

[sudden hollow]

5?!?!

[knotty vine]

yeah

[sudden hollow]

I think id rather fight an ancient dragon at lvl 5

Or at least an adult.

The wyrmling died too fast

[knotty vine]

Revenge Squad (for 5th-level characters). A black gauntlet of Bane comes after the characters with two reapers of Bhaal and a master of souls, who commands an undead force of six skeletons or four zombies.

[sudden hollow]

Hell our monk soloed it

The wyrmling ⬆️

[knotty vine]

wyrmlings vs adults is a vast power diff

[sudden hollow]

Yeah I wiah we had fought an adult

[knotty vine]

you would have died

[sudden hollow]

Better than watching the monk solo it

[knotty vine]

its breath weapon does 18d6

and it also has legendary resistance

[sudden hollow]

That last bit doesnt apply if it never makes a save though right?

[knotty vine]

it can fly out of range then breath weapon

[sudden hollow]

The monk was on it

Thats why he soloed it none of us could hit the bastard

[knotty vine]

. The dragon beats its wings. Each creature within 15 feet of the dragon must succeed on a DC 22 Dexterity saving throw or take 17 (2d6 + 10) bludgeoning damage and be knocked prone. The dragon can then fly up to half its flying speed.

[sudden hollow]

Only 22?

Our monk was rolling 28's steadily

[knotty vine]

its a legendary action so the dragon can spam it

it only takes 1 bad roll

[sudden hollow]

Ig but I have never seen him fail one

Even now that he is our warlock

He has the highest kill count at the table, by far

[knotty vine]

you've clearly never fought a adult dragon by 5

[sudden hollow]

Granted mine totals at 4 kills in 6 levels but still

[knotty vine]

also how was he "steadily" rolling 28's

thats the max he can get at level 5

[sudden hollow]

Killer bonuses+bless+ magic items

Plus racial too I think

[knotty vine]

racial.?

[sudden hollow]

Rabbit person

[knotty vine]

they dont add anything to there dex saves

[sudden hollow]

Never heard of it before so idk what it can do

I know he can jump tho

He did that to avoid several attacks and barrel rolls

[knotty vine]

oh lucky foot work

[cursive ledge]

y’all know any creative uses of mending?

[sudden hollow]

Mend but-

[noble tusk]

Lucky foot work only works when you fail a save iirc

One of my players uses harengon

[knotty vine]

still dont think a 2014 monk could solo an adult red dragon

[sudden hollow]

Oh and bardic

[rugged hawk]

Alright, I'm back from nomming pizza. Has Plague stopped ranting about homebrew yet?

[sudden hollow]

Blue, and the one he soloed was a wyrmling.

I am saying I think he could take an adult

[knotty vine]

oh thats even worse lmao

[noble tusk]

Not if the dragon is actually trying. I mean it just flies around smacking the monk until enough attacks land. Sheer action economy from all the LA slams

[knotty vine]

they have a burrow speed

[sudden hollow]

He never touched the ground and he cpulda burrowed?

Coulda*

[knotty vine]

adult blue dragons yeah

[sudden hollow]

Granted.. no he couldn't their wasnt enough land nearby lol

There*

[knotty vine]

wyrmlings can also burrow

[cursive ledge]

does cover affect any saving throws other than dex?

[sudden hollow]

He would have had to return to the mainland

[knotty vine]

i dont think so but it could give it self full cover so nothing would effect it

[sudden hollow]

He would have had to abandon the ritual that was trying to turn him into an adult too

[cursive ledge]

would a see through box count as full cover?

[knotty vine]

yeah

glass still counts as full cover even through its glass

so does all of force

[sudden hollow]

I miss cover rules

[knotty vine]

tell your dm to man up then

[sudden hollow]

No im already starving

[cursive ledge]

would you be able to cast a spell that requires you to “see someone” and “ignores cover” against someone inside of a see through box

[sudden hollow]

Yes?

That meets all the requirements

[knotty vine]

if it were a spell that ignores cover then yes but there arent many spells that have it

unless the spell says that it ignores cover then your outta luc

[sudden hollow]

Id like to get a magic item at some point. My hat is cool but I dont see it coming in handy

[cursive ledge]

if the spell requires you to see a target and forces a saving throw, but the spell never mentions cover, would it work against the see-through box?

[knotty vine]

no

[sudden hollow]

..what spell?

[noble tusk]

Unless the spell says it ignores cover then it doesn't ignore cover generally.

[sudden hollow]

You can cloudkill through a lot of cover spells

So long as you can see the center of the spell

[knotty vine]

the only spell that bypasses cover to my knowledge is Sacred Flame

[cursive ledge]

I’ve been trying to think of a situation where sacred flame is better than toll the dead

[sudden hollow]

"A point within range that you can see" bypasses cover if the cover is see through

[knotty vine]

sacred flame does rad damage and toll does necrotic

[cursive ledge]

assuming enemies are affected equally by the damage types I mean

[knotty vine]

one is a dex save another is a wisdom save

[sudden hollow]

Well you also need to factor in toll does bonus if they are already damaged doesnt it?

[rugged hawk]

If someone's stupid enough to hide behind glass, that's just an opportunity to blast the glass and turn it into shards flying into their face

[knotty vine]

i have a question

so you know heat metal right

[cursive ledge]

yeah that’s why I was trying to think of a scenario where cover would negate toll but not sacred flame

[sudden hollow]

I think we were more thinking of like... wall of force, force cage, ect

[rugged hawk]

👀 Yup.

[sudden hollow]

Toll the target has to hear you as well

So a soundproof box would prevent it

[knotty vine]

if i hit someone with it more then once can they take that fire damage more then once?

[sudden hollow]

But not a clear one

[knotty vine]

toll the dead doesnt bypass cover

[rugged hawk]

I dunno.

[cursive ledge]

it bypasses everything except full cover, right?

[sudden hollow]

It does

You just have to see them

[knotty vine]

where does it say that?

[sudden hollow]

Its a save not a aimed

[rugged hawk]

Frankly, I'd hesitate before allowing mundane glass to count as anything but a really soft cover.

[sudden hollow]

If you can see them they are a valid target

[rugged hawk]

Now, if it was MAGICAL glass, I can see it acting as proper cover.

[knotty vine]

No, Toll the Dead does not bypass cover.

[cursive ledge]

tbf if someone’s in a glass house you wouldn’t exactly be able to shoot an arrow at them

[knotty vine]

unless it says the spell bypasses cover it doesnt

[cursive ledge]

especially if it’s reinforced glass

[knotty vine]

thats like saying since fireball is a save it bypasses cover

and that doesnt make sense

[sudden hollow]

By the way you described it it does

[rugged hawk]

Yes, yes I would. The question is whether it would break the glass, which would mean checking the glass hardness, HP, and resistances/immunities.

[sudden hollow]

If it "appears at the location" then yes it ignores cover

[knotty vine]

but it doesnt rules as written

[sudden hollow]

It does actually

[knotty vine]

how

[sudden hollow]

Since its not a rolled spell, cover gives disadvantage to rolled attacks

[knotty vine]

yeah but if someone is behind a see through wall doesnt mean that all save spells just bypass it

[cursive ledge]

this entire time I’ve been thinking about like reinforced glass and forgot about the other 99% of glass

[knotty vine]

since again they are still effected by cover

full cover i mean

[sudden hollow]

They get advantage on the save

But the spell still succeds

[cursive ledge]

why do they get advantage on the save?

[sudden hollow]

Same reason cover gives an ac boost

[knotty vine]

no they dont if its full cover theres nothing to hit casue spells dont damage walls and such

[sudden hollow]

Why are you aiming for the cover?

[knotty vine]

theres talking about a see through wall

which is full cover

[woven flint]

Unless it specific says so
(Like Shatter damaging inorganic matter)

[cursive ledge]

cover only says it’d boost dex saves though

[uneven silo]

If I roll above ten on all my abilities- should I reroll to keep it more even?

[sudden hollow]

Yes, so aim for them, the spell appears ON THEM not on the wall

[rugged hawk]

Hard pass, depends on spell. Fireball? You're definitely rolling to see if you just burned up that section of wall.

Horrid Wilting? Not so much, unless it's a Wall of Water or Wall of Plants.

[knotty vine]

can you target someone with a spell through a window yes or no

[woven flint]

Depends.
Ranged attacks, no
Spells that just require LOS
I'd say yeah.

[knotty vine]

is a window not full cover

[sudden hollow]

Yeah sorry meant to say that. Its an advantage not literal advantage

[rugged hawk]

Theoretically, yes. But whether it can reach them depends on the spell. Projectile? Only if it can get through the glass. If not projectile, absolutely.

[woven flint]

I wouldn't say so because you're not blocking sight from the creature

You can misty step through windows and shit too, afterall.

Which means it doesn't block LOS

[rugged hawk]

Like, sure, you can see the enemy. But your Magic Missiles will need to shatter the window to reach them

[knotty vine]

A closed glass window is generally considered total cover in D&D 5e, as it acts as a solid obstruction blocking both movement and targeting. Although a target is visible, total cover applies because an object prevents direct attacks

[sudden hollow]

Exactly especially since we are talking about sacred flam or toll, both of which appear at the target not travel to the target, so cover means nothing, only line of sight

[cursive ledge]

so if you were in a box full of super reinforced glass, it still wouldnt be full cover because LOS is an aspect of full-cover?

[knotty vine]

magic missle only harms creatures

[rugged hawk]

LOS is an aspect of FULL cover, yeah

[sudden hollow]

Solid, not opaque

[hidden spindle]

Isn't it, you can but the effect will take effect on the nearest side

[rugged hawk]

Tell that to any breakable boxes in my way in BGDA

[knotty vine]

wouldnt that mean stuff like wall of force can still effect the creautre inside or on the other side

[sudden hollow]

"Total Cover
A target with total cover can't be targeted directly by an attack or a spell, although some spells can reach such a target by including it in an area of effect. A target has total cover if it is completely concealed by an obstacle." If its see through you arent concealed at all, so los spells still work

[woven flint]

You can teleport through wall for Force.

Nothing in the spell says you can't

[knotty vine]

i mean for spells and such

like fire ball and hold person

[rugged hawk]

Again, yes, but it depends on the spell being projectile or not

[sudden hollow]

Wall of force cloudkill is a COMMON combo

[rugged hawk]

A projectile won't normally pass through a Wall of Force, but Horrid Wilting won't give a damn if you cast it onto the other side

[severe fox]

i mean i found this
https://x.com/JeremyECrawford/status/803404321484247040
A solid obstacle, regardless of material, can provide total cover. A closed window counts

[sudden hollow]

And spells that appear at a point you can see are basically teleported arent they?

[knotty vine]

kinda miss when jeremy did that

[rugged hawk]

A closed window still provides LOS, unless by 'closed' you mean shuttered or curtained

[severe fox]

i guess but id still say hold person wouldnt get through since while yes it is LOS it still does say it gets through full cover unlike another spell

as that one dude said spells do what they do nothing more

[rugged hawk]

Last I knew, Hold Person was a projectile anyway, so yeah, not getting through a window.

[sudden hollow]

Its a projectile?

[severe fox]

it.. isnt?

[rugged hawk]

Is it not anymore? Good to know

[sudden hollow]

When was it?

[severe fox]

Choose a Humanoid that you can see within range. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or have the Paralyzed condition for the duration. At the end of each of its turns, the target repeats the save, ending the spell on itself on a success.

[rugged hawk]

Then a window won't stop Hold Person.

[severe fox]

thats your take on the matter

[sudden hollow]

Yeah its only target requirement is seeing them

So no way could a clear obstacle stop it

[rugged hawk]

The ONLY targeting qualification there is "Choose a Humanoid that you can see within range.'

[severe fox]

but full cover stops any spell effect

[rugged hawk]

Now, if it was an opaque object, I'd agree

[sudden hollow]

Now I see why my dm doesnt run cover i thought this was common sense

[knotty vine]

your dm runs things wrong most of the time

[sudden hollow]

No

A dm cant run things wrong, what a dm says is the rules

[knotty vine]

thats... a take on things

[sudden hollow]

Its their game ultimately

[knotty vine]

i thought a dms job was to make sure the players have fun

[sudden hollow]

Yeah, and im having fun

[knotty vine]

dying 3 times in one session is fun for you?

[sudden hollow]

So is the party

[sudden hollow]

Different dm entirely

And also yes I was having fun then too

[severe fox]

didnt you say you mentally checked out because you were rolling so low the other knight 😓

[sudden hollow]

Every character that dies gives me a chance to tey something new

[severe fox]

that doesnt sound like fun to me

oh yeah tell em how supernaturally lucky i am tasha

[sudden hollow]

Yeah thats not the dm's fault

[knotty vine]

over dnd beyond she rolled 5-8 nat 20s in a row

[rugged hawk]

Actually, hold on. This whole 'does glass stop spells if you can see the target' is silly, because Arcane Eye exists and proves no amount of cover can block a spell from its target as long as you can see the target.

[sudden hollow]

Wt actual f

[knotty vine]

i know

[sudden hollow]

I have rolled 7... IN MY LIFE (side note, as a player)

[knotty vine]

i know

[severe fox]

i told you im super naturally lucky

[sudden hollow]

As a dm I have rolled 12 in a game... those players arent...speaking to me anymore

[rugged hawk]

As an example, you cast an Arcane Eye on another room, go hide somewhere, then you can cast spells into the zone you're remotely seeing as long as the target is within spell range of the viewing spot.

[severe fox]

being the comedic relief gives you super luck powers

[sudden hollow]

I am the comedic relief

[severe fox]

yeah but your like the sad comedic relif

im the fun one!

[sudden hollow]

No im the funny one

[severe fox]

spring trap ref

[sudden hollow]

I do the shenanigans

Like eating a shovels handle

[severe fox]

clearly you dont do them right

or else the dice gods would bless you

[sudden hollow]

Nah I only get blessed when I dm

[severe fox]

that doesnt count

[sudden hollow]

Im being punished for escaping my roll as forever dm

[hidden spindle]

That's why some DMs play Halflings

[severe fox]

yeah why havent you played a halfing>?

[sudden hollow]

....

I hate them

[severe fox]

why?

[sudden hollow]

Short

[severe fox]

GET OUT

[sudden hollow]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[hidden spindle]

They're taller than Gnomes

[knotty vine]

dolly is short btw

[severe fox]

shut up tasha

[sudden hollow]

So is my fiance, she is 4' 11"

In shoes

She wont let me measure her height barefoot

[severe fox]

i cant wait to level the playing field

[cursive ledge]

dumb question, if I have the UA cantrip virtue (action to gives creature 1d4+Wis temp hp for 1 round), could I solo torture someone with it, or would I still need a 2nd person to deal damage?

[severe fox]

temp hp isnt healing

fun idea through

[cursive ledge]

you give them temp hp and then they get hit and you repeat this each round

[undone rain]

Alr im gonna play a paladin of kelemvor, pretty interesting deity

[sudden hollow]

I have only played warforged, ....tiefling, uh.. and uh...

[severe fox]

i always imaged temp hp as like a shield

[cursive ledge]

does it hurt to lose temp hp?

[sudden hollow]

One sec let me check my character collection

[rugged hawk]

I did a monk of Kelemvor once, good times. Used to punch the snot out of undead.

[severe fox]

up to the dm id say no

since its not real hp

[sudden hollow]

PLASMOID

Oh and a goblin character who died e0 in game minutes after being introduced

[severe fox]

2024 is so much fun when it comes to its new spells

[sudden hollow]

30*

Does that count though?

[hidden spindle]

There's no need for THP for slow torture. Just use your Unarmed Strikes or Melee Attacks and declare Knock Out

[undone rain]

How i feel after making my 15th paladin character

[sudden hollow]

Just revivify them after you kill them

[hidden spindle]

Nah they can decline

[severe fox]

300 gold pieces and a spell slot is not cheap

[cursive ledge]

that take up a spell slot though

[sudden hollow]

They can?

[severe fox]

yeah

[hidden spindle]

Yes

[severe fox]

it has to be a willing creaturee

[sudden hollow]

You sure? I thought they couldnt

[severe fox]

also again 300 gold pices

You touch a creature that has died within the last minute. That creature returns to life with 1 hit point. This spell can't return to life a creature that has died of old age, nor can it restore any missing body parts.

[cursive ledge]

what happens if you're at -2 hp and gain 4 temp hp?

[sudden hollow]

No revivify is not willing

[severe fox]

nothing temp hp isnt real hp

[sudden hollow]

It is forced

[severe fox]

thats still a 3rd level spell slot and 300 gold pieces your throwing away

[sudden hollow]

.... thats.. not expensive

[severe fox]

oh yeah go find me a diamond worth 300 gold pieces right now

[hidden spindle]

Dead

A dead creature has no Hit Points and can’t regain them unless it is first revived by magic such as the Raise Dead or Revivify spell. When such a spell is cast, the spirit knows who is casting it and can refuse. The spirit of a dead creature has left the body and departed for the Outer Planes, and reviving the creature requires calling the spirit back.

[cursive ledge]

what if you poisoned the enemy to take 3 damage every turn but you cast virtue between each poison tick

[sudden hollow]

Is that 2014 or 5.5e?

[severe fox]

posion doesnt to tick damage

[hidden spindle]

Glossary in 2024 PHB

[sudden hollow]

Okay so irrelevant

[severe fox]

are you new to dnd or something>?

[cursive ledge]

are there any per turn sources of damage that do a very small amount of damage

[severe fox]

hahaha no

well fire i guess

[cursive ledge]

ive never used poison in my life in this game

[sudden hollow]

Neither have i...I dont think i have seen poison used once in ny 9 years playing. Not as a dm or a player

[cursive ledge]

force them to stay inside a bonfire and virtue them each turn

[sudden hollow]

Lmaooo

[severe fox]

doing that without killing them would be very hard

[sudden hollow]

At that point just head metal and heal them

[severe fox]

heat metal does 2d8

[sudden hollow]

Force feed them potions or lay hands them

[cursive ledge]

1d8 dmg per turn but they get 1d4+4 hp per turn

[sudden hollow]

Give them a potion of fire resistance

[severe fox]

you mean the cantrip bonfire?

[cursive ledge]

yeah

[severe fox]

i guess

[severe fox]

assuming you just have one of those on hand 😭

your view of dnd is mega wrapped

[cursive ledge]

im struggling to think of a way to pull this off realistically

[sudden hollow]

You dont?

[severe fox]

you cant

you know the enemy is most likely gonna fight back

[sudden hollow]

You can done it several times now

[sudden hollow]

Tie them up?

[cursive ledge]

i think virtue might just be ass

[severe fox]

mm dc 13 strength check

[rugged hawk]

It's almost like it's a cantrip for a reason

[sudden hollow]

You can restrain them with iron chains and heat metal the iron

[cursive ledge]

hold person + entangle mmmm

[severe fox]

oo fancy dc 20

[sudden hollow]

In what world is iron chains a dc 13???

[severe fox]

even a lucky peaset could slip out of them

[cursive ledge]

you cant even use it to tortue right smh

[rugged hawk]

Virtue is basically only so level 1 wizards don't die of 1d4 doing things damage

[severe fox]

it also only works medium creautres as well

[knotty vine]

i agree with dolly using a cantrip to torture someone is stupid and impractical

[paper portal]

virtue?

[knotty vine]

UA spell

[paper portal]

ah

[rugged hawk]

Death of a Thousand Acid Splashes

As you slowly melt all their skin off

[cursive ledge]

I was just thinkin that if you wanted to torture someone for effectively an infinite amount of time, the only way i could think of doing that would be through healing that doesnt consume spell slots

[sudden hollow]

The..whole point of torture is you make it last, you deal as little as possible to keep them in pain.. cantrips are perfect for that

[knotty vine]

"Revive them with revivfy" good luck

[sudden hollow]

It works perfectly fine

[knotty vine]

your wasting a 3rd level spell slot which could be used for fly or something better

[hidden spindle]

Bringing back the Dead

A soul can’t be returned to life if it doesn’t wish to be. A soul knows the name, alignment, and patron deity (if any) of the character attempting to revive it and might refuse to return on that basis.

[sudden hollow]

Ah yes let's torture a dude and then not prepare after

[rugged hawk]

Fountain of Healing -> boil the fountain -> throw creature in boiling fountain -> enjoy long agony

[knotty vine]

not to mention the diamond is consumed in the spell so you better have another one as well as the mount of spell slots

[sudden hollow]

And thats from?

[hidden spindle]

2014 DMG

[knotty vine]

lol

[woven flint]

"I do not wish to live! Leave me alone!!!"

[cursive ledge]

the fountain of healing is real???

[knotty vine]

the creautre could just like "nah i wanna die"

[hidden spindle]

Precisely

[rugged hawk]

Everything's real as long as the DM believes in it

[cursive ledge]

if you kill a nihilist and they accept the revivify they werent a real nihilist

[knotty vine]

if you need info why not just use... speak with dead instead

its like like they can deny that

[cursive ledge]

torture more fun tho

[sudden hollow]

Ah the book that on page nine clearly state ITS YOUR WORLD

[knotty vine]

its also inaccurate

[sudden hollow]

So once again if the dm allows it go f yourswlf

[rugged hawk]

My mistlocked housewife sorc blew herself up several times with fireballs. She accepted being revived because she could always just fireball herself again if things weren't to her liking.

[knotty vine]

rules as written it means a creature could just deny being revivied:

but again the dm can just override any rule

[sudden hollow]

They also say its the dm's world and the rules can be changed to fit

[hidden spindle]

There goes a 300gp Diamond.

[rugged hawk]

No. A DM may not overrule nat 20s

[sudden hollow]

And rules as written revivify bypasses willing souls

[knotty vine]

again when most people talk here they mainly speak about rules as written

not "whatever the dm says goes

[sudden hollow]

Again. Not that expensive

[hidden spindle]

I suppose there's Circle Casting for a reason. Where's the 0GP Diamond

[knotty vine]

at level 5 it really is

[sudden hollow]

Not really?

[knotty vine]

tell me how to make 300gp

[sudden hollow]

Gold is easy to get even in rewritten modules

[knotty vine]

how do i get 300 gold in CoS then

[sudden hollow]

Pre written*

[knotty vine]

and how do i turn that 300 gold into a diamond

well?

hello?

[cursive ledge]

if nat 20 wouldnt work, why even have the roll in the first place instead of just having the DM go "nah that aint happening"

[severe fox]

not a big fan of when people say "blank" is easy to get when its clearly game dependent 😅

or dm dependent

[hidden spindle]

So irrelevant

[severe fox]

some adventuers will be swimming in gold while in other you barely even make 25

[cursive ledge]

you cleared a dungeon? here's 40 gold each

[sudden hollow]

Wbard

[severe fox]

thats still not a diamond worth 300 gold pieces through

since you gotta now go to a town and maybe find a guy whos selling a diamond worth that much

[sudden hollow]

The party can choose gold as their starting item

[cursive ledge]

yeah

[severe fox]

max is like 200ish...

[knotty vine]

oml...

[sudden hollow]

If the dm is giving you so little gold, L dm

[severe fox]

plus in 2014 im pretty sure you roll for gold

[woven flint]

The point isn't the GOLD, it's the DIAMOND that matters

[cursive ledge]

okay guys ik you want starting equipment, but I rlly need multiple 300 gp diamonds rq

[severe fox]

that too

[rugged hawk]

If you're that desperate for 'a diamond worth 300gp or more', just kidnap some noble's kid. Truly a gem in their parents eyes.

[woven flint]

Use the child as a material component

[rugged hawk]

Dark magic variant where you sacrifice an innocent to raise someone else from the dead

[severe fox]

again not every adventure is suppose be you swimming in gold some are suppose to be the players barely making ends meet

[rugged hawk]

Exactly!

[knotty vine]

i remember i had to play in a campgion where my character got a job for 8 copper a day

[rugged hawk]

Bonus points if you use an orphanage. What're they gonna do about, tell their parents?

[sudden hollow]

Sell stuff. Lvl 3 cleric can make 100 gp a day and thats on the low end

Artificers are even more notorious for being money machines

Bards can perform, rogues can steal

[severe fox]

not every game allows artificers

[woven flint]

Which is stupid imho.

[sudden hollow]

Thats fair. But I have yet to see clerics banned

[severe fox]

and not everyone will pay you for playing at the tavern

[severe fox]

what shop is just gonna buy all of your useless adventuring gear

"its really nice you wanna sell this to me but we are a farming town we dont need chain mail"

[cursive ledge]

wouldnt that be assuming the DM is giving you free reign to spend days doing this and then having ppl readily available to sell to?

[severe fox]

^^^

[sudden hollow]

So yall dont take rests then after hyping of warlocks cause its "only a short rest"?

[severe fox]

sounds like your dm doesnt put any real depth into the towns they make

of course cleric we will buy your long sword shield and breat plate

despite us being a farm town!

[cursive ledge]

we only have 9 of them so far

we need a 10th

[rugged hawk]

Exactly, which is why I've got a pile of potential treasure sitting in my water sorc's pouches right now: -a favorite fishing lure, -sculpture of a fish (30gp), -2 beautiful aquamarine earrings (5gp each), -2 vials of perfume (5 gp each), -an iron spike (1 sp), -tattered map of Caverns of the Shadow Queen, -a carved bone whistle, -2 flasks of water, -old chain and locket with a portrait of a lovely half-elf female etched in profile on the inside (100 gp), -2 rings of braided silver and electrum (25 gp each), -4 polished jet gem (50 gp each)

[severe fox]

again that goes into the thing that depending on setting depends on the amount of gold you can make

[cursive ledge]

who’s buying a chain locked with a half elf in it for a years wages

[woven flint]

Ah shit, you folks just indirectly reminded me that I gotta finish setting up my Artificers infusions/magic item plans
Agonized noises

[rugged hawk]

No idea, I held it in case someone in the nearby village wants it back

[severe fox]

ah yes lemme go into this finishing village and sell this +1 long sword

what do you mean do dont need it its a maigc item

[cursive ledge]

and they’ll pay you that much for it?

[woven flint]

I'm playing an Air Genasi Forge Adept Arti 🧐

[rugged hawk]

I wouldn't expect to make that much, if anything. I only wrote down the values as listed.

[woven flint]

He's got a Peregine mask, so he's got access to permanent flight
Other Air Genasi are fuming

[cursive ledge]

how do you deal with a long module that only has 1 town btw?

like do you just never buy anything

[severe fox]

thats peak

[rugged hawk]

Traveling merchants, maybe?

[severe fox]

those guys are cool

[rugged hawk]

Unless they're the kind who get their merchandise by robbing folks who seem weak 👀

[cursive ledge]

imagine a kenku with this

[woven flint]

In the Monday game I'm in
We met a Skeleton Merchant named Genshi
He couldn't speak or anything, but knew sign language as was as cognizant and aware as when he was alive
He was a very cool dude

[knotty vine]

in some of my games you can get a job

[woven flint]

He told us he had been undead for like... 400 years or something?
And we're the first adventurers who didn't try to attack him right away

[rugged hawk]

It doesn't pay actual coin, but my water sorc has Harvest the Water, so she can maintain a steady moderate lifestyle as long as there's somewhere with good fishing:

You gain advantage on ability checks made using fishing tackle. If you have access to a body of water that sustains marine life, you can maintain a moderate lifestyle while working as a fisher, and you can catch enough food to feed yourself and up to ten other people each day.

[knotty vine]

get a job!

[hidden spindle]

I love that background feature!

[rugged hawk]

Fisher is a nice background for her, yeah

[hidden spindle]

Its my goto for 2014 games. That or Pirate if its PHB-only

[jolly hound]

I wuv warlock

[rugged hawk]

I wuv Shield when it hadn't been nerfed into uselessness

[cursive ledge]

whens it nerfed into uselessness?

[rugged hawk]

Shield went from 1 minute / level to a single round

Talk about nerfing the everloving crap out of a spell

[uncut zenith]

Shield never lasted a minute

[rugged hawk]

I'm talking about in BG1+2, NWN, etc

[uncut zenith]

Ah, so video games

[rugged hawk]

Muh poor Shield spell

Not just, also 3.5

Shield
Abjuration [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 min./level (D)

Now it's been nerfed into near uselessness, a single round for a whole spell slot

[limber trail]

It's also a reaction to cast instead of an action

which is a buff

[uncut zenith]

Wild to hear Shield in 5E being called “near useless” when it’s probably one of the best 1st level spells in 5E

[limber trail]

And it has been kinda replaced by mage armour in it's 3.5e function

[hidden spindle]

That's like Blade Ward now...

[rugged hawk]

'Replaced by mage armor' my tail, Mage Armor doesn't stack with other AC sources like Shield did

Which is probably why they 'replaced' Shield with MA

[rugged hawk]

Blade Ward?

[cursive ledge]

this lmao

[hidden spindle]

Essentially reduces incoming attack rolls by 1d4 for 1 min. Cantrip

Not sure what Shield did in 3.5e

-# I only know 5e, forgive me

[rugged hawk]

Shield creates an invisible, tower shield-sized mobile disk of force that hovers in front of you. It negates magic missile attacks directed at you. The disk also provides a +4 shield bonus to AC. This bonus applies against incorporeal touch attacks, since it is a force effect. The shield has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance. Unlike with a normal tower shield, you can’t use the shield spell for cover.

[hidden spindle]

There were... tower shields?!

[uncut zenith]

Either way, comparing how a spell functioned in 3.5E to how it functions in 5E is like comparing apples and oranges

It’s hard to say Shield was “nerfed” between 3.5 and 5 when they’re entirely different rulesets

Shield 3.5E functioned how it needed to in 3.5E, and Shield 5E functions how it needs to in 5E

[rugged hawk]

Well I don't like it

[uncut zenith]

And that’s okay! That’s why both editions are still completely viable and everybody’s more than welcome to play the edition that works for them

[rugged hawk]

That said.... I also recognize how overwhelming Shield in its better incarnation would be in 5e

So yeah, I can see why it needed to be softened, I just don't like it

Also, softening Shield makes Magic Missiles more viable

....oh, right. That's why I couldn't grab Blade Ward.... took Elementalism, Guidance, Mage Hand, Shape Water, and Sorcerous Burst, instead.

[visual gyro]

How do I properly utilize the hermit background's Discovery feature as a DM? what discoveries have your characters had? I would prefer serious answers only please

[rugged hawk]

Ah, I see why I couldn't use Blade Ward: Concentration. Being an underwater sorc and needing Conc for breathing spells, among other things.

[hidden spindle]

That's tricky because it could simply be the hint to the BBEG or something that could stir up trouble, as if you were going to do otherwise.

Hmm... maybe give the player a secret information about something important.

[hot reef]

It’s best utilized as something plot related. It could be crucial information that only makes sense at a certain point into the campaign, or it could be what kickstarts the campaign

[rugged hawk]

Or it could be a red herring

[hot reef]

He said serious answers

[rugged hawk]

That is a serious answer. If they lose time chasing what amounts to a wild goose, they may miss other opportunities and things might get more difficult.

[hidden spindle]

Semi serious, maybe they discovered how to craft two potions of health simultaneously.

[visual gyro]

I would not want to invalidate someone's background by having it be a red herring

[hidden spindle]

Speaking of which, Clerics and Paladin's lost their innate ability to make Holy Water in 2024 (without the Ceremony Spell)

[hot reef]

Red herring would suck. Intentional lie by an individual of power that puts PCs in a tough position but doesn’t waste their time could work

[hidden spindle]

It might be easier to ask the player what they would've discovered and make a mechanic directly from that. Its stronger and not so vague

[worthy bramble]

Would anyone here happen to know how to properly price your dnd games for pay to play things?

[strong pollen]

If you don't mind me asking, are you talking about buying the books or actually paying for a legit game

[hot reef]

There are a couple of ways to think about it that I’ve seen (I’m not a paid DM)
-proportional to the amount of time, money, and effort you put in
-proportional to the amount of money you put in
-enough to be a side gig
-enough to filter out less invested players

[strong pollen]

Oh

Neat

[worthy bramble]

I see! Thank you for the info Herambe! I'll try to do more research, but I wonder how much I should charge if I'm a starting out paid DM

[harsh hollow]

There are paid DMs who do this as a gig.

Turning your game into a job sounds miserable to me but I'm sure they make it work.

[strong pollen]

Agreed.I mean, you gotta do what you gotta do for money

So i've recently looked into the gun slayer class, it's pretty cool

[feral fulcrum]

Nothing says the Shields in 5E can't also be Tower shields, it's just that older editionsly were more Mechanically Indepth and expansive compared to 5e.

5E Aims for simple and streamlined, sacrificing depth and complexity, whereas stuff like 3.5 focused on deeper, more complicated systems that had much more meat on their bones.

[uneven silo]

Are there any discord dnd groups that just do text? I don’t like voice cause I have an awful mic and setup and it’s really echoey

[feral fulcrum]

not to my knowledge, but you can still look for text only games on here.

[paper portal]

yeah but theyre mostly play by post rather than sessions

[uneven silo]

Post?

[paper portal]

like just put your turn/rp/whatever in chat when you have time

constantly going rather than once a week

[idle oar]

Look for play by post/test-based games in #looking-for-players and #looking-for-community

[spring light]

Tfw you start writing some homebrew lore for a faction.... And wind up with a 40 page short story

[crimson gulch]

It's the best job I have ever had that's for sure

[knotty vine]

if jonny is level 5 and he cast fire ball how many spell slots does she have now

[woven zealot]

Zero cus he used them all

[paper portal]

trick question jonny is a fiend warlock they have 1 slot left

[knotty vine]

very good bonnie you get a gold star

[hot reef]

2 3rd level slots, it was a wild magic surge

[knotty vine]

that would be funny to see but wild magic surge got changed to where its no longer casted on yourself

[knotty vine]

An event in your past left an indelible mark on you, infusing you with simmering magic

[coarse vector]

hey is there a place to look to like join a campaign or one shot as just one player?

[umbral girder]

Successfully cleave two guys in with 1 swing in today’s session

Now I’m a level two Barbarian

[umbral girder]

#find-a-game !

[coral burrow]

can u create a cauldron of holy water using performance of creation on a bard in order to use it to attack a vampire.

Can only a cleric or paladin make it or can a bard make it with this class

[knotty vine]

no cause holy water cost money to make

[umbral girder]

Creation Bard can make things that cost money

You are thinking of 2014 Conjuration Wizard

[coral burrow]

"The gp value of the item can't be more than 20 times your bard level"

[knotty vine]

that brings up a good question

how much is holy water worth

[coral burrow]

25 gp

[knotty vine]

then maybe?

[umbral girder]

In the Player’s Handbook it has the listed price

[hot reef]

That’s the material cost and doesn’t include the time, expertise, or slot needed to make it

[knotty vine]

but i doubt you can create two things since your making the cauldron and the water

[umbral girder]

No that is the cost last I checked for those too

Yeah it’s 25 gp.

[hot reef]

Ah

[coral burrow]

so yes its within the rules

[umbral girder]

The material cost was like 10gp of silver I think?

[knotty vine]

it depends on the dm but id say no cause its two diffrent things

[umbral girder]

The issue is “a nonmagical item” is what is created so the DM might rule Holy water as a magic item

[hot reef]

It’s 25gp in 2014, can’t find 2024

[umbral girder]

Because water that makes undead things explode might be considered pretty magic

[umbral girder]

25gp still

[knotty vine]

l, as an action, you can channel the magic of the Song of Creation to create one nonmagical item of your choice in an unoccupied space within 10 feet of you. The item must appear on a surface or in a liquid that can support it. The gp value of the item can't be more than 20 times your bard level, and the item must be Medium or smaller

[umbral girder]

It’s on Page 226

[knotty vine]

is holy water magical?

[hot reef]

It does say item and not object, so maybe liquids are on the table

[knotty vine]

but again your trying to make a Cauldron with liquid inside of it

which is two different things

it also depends if you consider if holy water is magical

then its a flat no

[bronze canopy]

It’s under equipment instead of magic items on dndbeyond

[knotty vine]

common magic items exist

[umbral girder]

Magic items are still in equipment like the Potion of Healing and Spell Scrolls.

[knotty vine]

see

[umbral girder]

Being in equipment does not prevent it from being a Magic item

[knotty vine]

+it does 2d6 radiant damage to undead that seems decently magical to me

[bronze canopy]

They are categorized under magic items. Cape of Billowing is in the magic items section. Holy Water is not. Not under 5.5

I’m looking at dndbeyond right now

[knotty vine]

...

[umbral girder]

Not really that good of a source you know that right?

[knotty vine]

The Player's Handbook (p. 151) states that creating holy water requires a 1-hour ceremony using 25 gp worth of powdered silver and a 1st-level spell slot, a ritual exclusive to clerics and paladins.

again seems pretty magical to me

[umbral girder]

If I had water that made partial dead thinks start burning I’d consider it pretty magic

Especially when it’s a page away from Potion of Healing and Spell Scrolls

[knotty vine]

By strict Rules as Written (RAW) in D&D 5e, a College of Creation Bard cannot make holy water using their Note of Potential feature. Holy water is considered a magic item, not a nonmagical item, and its creation requires a specific 1-hour ritual involving 25 gp of silver, usually restricted to clerics or paladins

[bronze canopy]

Common magical items are also stated to cost about 100GP, half if they’re consumable and not a spell scroll. Holy Water is 25GP. I’ll leave it at that.

[knotty vine]

its a magic item

it can only be made with a spell slot

[umbral girder]

looks at 30gp spell scroll

Also it does not say “not a spell scroll”

It says “potion or spell scroll”

Spell scroll just gets a fancier one due to components sometimes messing with it

As per chapter 7 of the DMG

[coral burrow]

so is the issue currently is holy water magic or mundane liquid

[knotty vine]

its a magic liquid since the main way to obtain is it a spell slot and 1 hour ritual

and again it also does 2d6 radiant damage to undeads/fiends

[coral burrow]

so because it is created with a spell slot, ritual and does ritual damage. it should be magical?

[woven flint]

Hello, friends

[knotty vine]

yeah?

[umbral girder]

Tokii

[knotty vine]

"your telling me this magic thing made only by magic is magical?"

[umbral girder]

I got 29 HP in Sora’s game.

[woven flint]

Oh Jeez

[umbral girder]

At level 2.

[woven flint]

Oh sick

[knotty vine]

beefy

[umbral girder]

I now got Reckless attack and Danger Sense too!

[coral burrow]

im leaning towards magical tbh

[bronze canopy]

I’m looking at 5.5. Holy Water is categorized under adventuring gear in the PHB

Not under magical items

[knotty vine]

just cause its under adventuring gear doesnt mean its not magical

[umbral girder]

Just like Spell scrolls and Potions of Healing also being under adventuring gear in the PHB

Literally pages apart

[bronze canopy]

Except they aren’t in 5.5

[knotty vine]

do you know what a Druidic Focus is

or any type of focus

[bronze canopy]

A stick or a crystal

[knotty vine]

that you can cast spells through

is that not magical?

[umbral girder]

I have the 5.5e PHB open to their pages they are

[knotty vine]

Potion of Healing 1/2 lb. 50 GP This potion is a magic item. As a Bonus Action, you can drink it or administer it to another creature within 5 feet of yourself. The creature that drinks the magical red fluid in this vial regains 2d4 + 2 Hit Points.

[umbral girder]

It’s even in the table of adventuring gear on page 223

[knotty vine]

under adventuring gear

[bronze canopy]

Fine. The exception that makes the rule

[severe fox]

kind of a weird hill to die on

this water does nothing to a normal creature but it does 2d6 to fiends and undeads!

it also takes a spell slot to make but its somehow not magic!

[umbral girder]

“That’s all I have to say”
proceeds to say a lot more

[knotty vine]

in sage advice to tell if something is magical or not it legit says ask your self this question "does it use a spell slot"

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/sac/sage-advice-compendium#SA224
In D&D, the first type of magic is part of nature. It is no more dispellable than the wind. A monster like a dragon exists because of that magic-enhanced nature. The second type of magic is what the rules are concerned about. When a rule refers to something being magical, it’s referring to that second type. Determining whether a game feature is magical is straightforward. Ask yourself these questions about the feature:

Is it a magic item?
Is it a spell? Or does it let you create the effects of a spell that’s mentioned in its description?
Is it a spell attack?
Is it fueled by the use of spell slots?
Does its description say it’s magical?

[woven flint]

Spell scrolls don't use spellslots smh, magic items that have charges don't either! /silly

[empty thicket]

i saw they updated it or smt, or still the same?

[knotty vine]

its exactly the same

[empty thicket]

damn, then it was the artificer or smt like that

[knotty vine]

there might be another way of making it but the main way was ceremony

[empty thicket]

the healing potion?

[bronze canopy]

Yeah I know, I meant to be finished. I will still insist that holy water is not a magical item by the game’s definition. A spell focus is not magical either. A stick is a stick unless someone magical is wielding it. Holy Water is not technically a magic item. It doesn’t show up under the list of magic items. It will work in antimagic

[knotty vine]

no someones trying to say that holy water isnt magical cause its under "adventuring" gear

[knotty vine]

stright up ignoring the rules i see

[bronze canopy]

At least the potion of healing shows up in both lists

[knotty vine]

you a lead a horse a water but you cant force it to drink

[severe fox]

[umbral girder]

Bro is jumping through his hoops

[empty thicket]

oh, not so important then, okey okey

[bronze canopy]

Why would it not show up in the list of magical items? That’s the crux for me

[knotty vine]

read what i just posting

[umbral girder]

Sage Advice literally calling it out as a magic item

[knotty vine]

and sage advice it considered official rulings so

so again rules at written holy water is considered a magic item even if it doesnt appear in the magic item tab

[empty thicket]

What were the uses of Holy water? throw it towards some undead//vampire (to cut its regen?)?

[rough basalt]

It is a magic item but it's also a magic item you can find in any town with a temple/church ect so it's adventuring gear

[knotty vine]

it only does 2d6 radiant damage against undead and fiends

thats it

[woven flint]

This is an incredibly strange hill to die on, admittedly

[rough basalt]

To deal with Undead Fortitude, and stop vamp regen

[knotty vine]

agreed

[umbral girder]

Yep! Zombies and Vampires got things for radiant damage

[knotty vine]

fiends not so much

[empty thicket]

mmmm... its okey

[knotty vine]

if you have no other sorce of radiant its decent

[umbral girder]

There is 1 Fiend I know that loses regen from Radiant damage but by the time you face them you should have it

[bronze canopy]

Whatever. I don’t think I’m jumping through hoops. You can create mundane items with magic. They would list it as a magical item if it was specifically magical. It’s just more specific acid

[rough basalt]

Like if you're up against Zombies, you might wanna throw the holy water so you don't end up in a situation where Senator Nomstrong has Undead Fortitude son, it keeps his hp at 1 in response to fatal trauma.

[empty thicket]

could be used by some DM for some plot stuff, aka pour it over some altar or smt like that.
Or other mnay options but its good to know that undeads and fiends could be attacked with it

Now imagine Holy molotovs.

[umbral girder]

Well Molotovs aren’t water right?

[knotty vine]

"more specifc acid" i dont think theres a single thing of non magical radiant damage in dnd

[bronze canopy]

Laser rifle

[empty thicket]

nope, but could add something to light it up and then boom, holy flames
Na, too problematic

[knotty vine]

oh yeah cause those exist in every table

totally

[bronze canopy]

Futuristic weaponry exists Iggwilv

[rough basalt]

In crashed spaceships in two settings iirc

Not that you'd ever end up at them unless running said modules

[empty thicket]

5 magic crystals placed in a musket and then using some spell sort like fire bolt get a +5 in roll and 1 more dice of damage.

[knotty vine]

alright i dont think theres a single thing of non magical radiant damage besides laser rifles

[bronze canopy]

Laser pistols

[woven flint]

That's an Arcane firearm.. not a Laser rifle

[severe fox]

i have to agree with tasha on this one one i think holy water should be considered magical

[empty thicket]

nice, it already exist

[umbral girder]

Back to hoop jumping

[rough basalt]

I mean it is.
It wouldn't do radiant damage if it was just water

[bronze canopy]

Maybe it should be. So tell WOTC to put in that list

[severe fox]

she already posted a link showing how its considered to be magical

again sometimes wotc forgets to put stuff in

[bronze canopy]

Or maybe they want DMs to make their own rulings so they left it intentionally vague. I don’t know

[woven flint]

This is a really interesting conversation
Anyways,
Raksasha, amiright?
They really aren't kitten around.

[empty thicket]

Ballons filled of Holy water. Think about it.

[umbral girder]

Sage advice said if it’s made with a spell slot it’s a magic item

Holy Water specifies it’s made with a spell slot

[rough basalt]

I think they assume that people would assume that the water that magically burns Undead with radiant is magical

[severe fox]

"its intentionally vague"
needs a spell slot to be made:

[empty thicket]

Or a Watering can filled with holy water, the nightmare of the BBEG Vampire Lord

[knotty vine]

i dont see how much more magical you can get with holy water man

[woven flint]

Turn it into a water elemental, maybe

[rough basalt]

Holy Water Elemental

[woven flint]

Holy Water Elemental is love

[rough basalt]

Toilet Water Elemental for poisoned condition

[knotty vine]

that would be just a normal water elemental

[woven flint]

Disgusting

[knotty vine]

unless you unleash him on a fiend or undead

[hot reef]

I believe water elementals could be used for sewage treatment in 3.5e

[knotty vine]

thats..

ewww

[hot reef]

They purify it

I’d assume

[umbral girder]

Gelatinous Cubed are also used for Sewage!

[knotty vine]

i hate that

[empty thicket]

Wait, so access to 2d6 of radiant damage is worth 25gp BUT a basic poison is Worth 100gp and have a DC save of 10.

[umbral girder]

As they specifically melt down biological matter

[umbral girder]

Poison on Ammo can be used multiple times

[knotty vine]

it cost that much because it also takes a spell slot and a 1 hour ritual

[empty thicket]

Even an Acid Vial is worth 25gp and do 2d6 damage too

[empty thicket]

buying it i mean.

[knotty vine]

you cant really buy holy water

[empty thicket]

and still...

[umbral girder]

Acid and Holy water are single use

[knotty vine]

unless they have a cleric with cermony laying around

In the 2024 D&D rules, a cleric or paladin creates holy water by spending one hour performing a special ritual, expending a 1st-level spell slot, and consuming 25 gp worth of powdered silver. Alternatively, it can be created over a week in a Sacristy bastion

[bronze canopy]

So no spell slot there

[empty thicket]

The poison Dc is 10. Sad stuff

[knotty vine]

the other is a house rule

[empty thicket]

At this point going a holy rogue seems a better option than going a Poison rogue

[woven flint]

Holy Rogue?

[knotty vine]

soul knife rogue

[woven flint]

Soul Knife... isn't holy?

[empty thicket]

Yeah, instead of relying in poisons and stuff like that, you use holy water and any holy way of dealing damage

[knotty vine]

posion is kinda boring in dnd

[empty thicket]

The good poisons are expensive

[knotty vine]

weirdly enough not a lot of things in dnd were resistant to posion

like in 2014 monster manual only like 4 things were resistant to posion

[umbral girder]

It is only Basic Poison after all

[wild hazel]

Hi

[umbral girder]

It isn’t any of the advance poisons

[woven flint]

Just.. stab things or shoot them with a bow

[knotty vine]

i prefer giving people the philer of love

[empty thicket]

Basic poison worth 100gp with a Dc10 VS 4 holy water vials of 2d6 radiant damage (one of the less resisted in the game)

[knotty vine]

if your playing in a game with bunch of undeads and fiends yeah but...

[empty thicket]

I was waiting so much you say that

[knotty vine]

even in CoS vampires are decently rare

[wild hazel]

So.... Quick insert here. I'm creating songs for my DnD characters and wanted unfiltered opinions. Not sure If I should go anime or realistic fantasy.

[umbral girder]

Only to Undead and Friends notably

[empty thicket]

Assassin blood, 150gp, Dc10 Save and Ingest.
Serpent venom 200gp, Dc11 for 3d6 and injury.

[empty thicket]

Still those are one if not the most common kind of enemies in most campaigns

Rarely you are only against bandits//humans//beasts//aberrations

[umbral girder]

Abominations?

Also odd to separate bandits from humanoids

[knotty vine]

monsters

[empty thicket]

aberrations, mb

[umbral girder]

There is also you know, Dragons and Monstrosities

[knotty vine]

i feel you fight against humaoids the most?

undead flowing close behind maybe

[umbral girder]

When was the last time I used an undead I wonder….

[knotty vine]

i mean i did fight a few undead

[umbral girder]

I suppose Vecna counts. In my Eve of Ruin game

[empty thicket]

Then the other magic side of the coin
100gp poison VS 25gp Vial of acid.

[umbral girder]

Oh yeah and the lesser Death Knights.

Tbh also both those prices are stupid cheap

[empty thicket]

Such dope name "Death knights"

[umbral girder]

Even at level 1 you get around 500gp in a session per the DMG

[bronze canopy]

At least use to laugh. It’s literally you

[empty thicket]

i wish i had such thing

i never crossed the 500gp line and i dont gain bad money at all

[knotty vine]

again very dm depentant

[umbral girder]

If the DM isn’t using core rules it’s on them.

[empty thicket]

And depend, a Dc10 save would mean that with less of the half of the dice you can get it land
If not, why use poison in a creature with a const so lower (= low hp)? unless is the kind of enemy that have High AC Low HP

Its weird

[umbral girder]

Because it’s an added effect and depending on the poison it’s a debuff too.

[knotty vine]

i like this change
The Stunned condition no longer prevents you from moving. Is that change intentional?
Yes. We have intentionally increased the differences between the Stunned and Paralyzed conditions, with Stunned now allowing you to move.

[empty thicket]

using basic for the example, could use Serpent venom (200gp, Dc11) but would mean a whole other layer of things
Yara yara yara

[umbral girder]

And of course, with arrows you can spam it 3 times per dosage too

[empty thicket]

sounds proper ngl
Stunned you are like staggering unless you are like prone or smt like that
Paralyzed would be "Cant move"

[empty thicket]

or bolts, i dont remember well the rule for coating in poison such thing like ammo

[knotty vine]

Can a non-Battle Master attempt to disarm someone?
The Disarming Attack maneuver is designed for the Battle Master Fighter, but any character can try to disarm a foe. Such an attempt would fall under improvising an action not detailed by the rules and would be up to your DM to adjudicate.

[umbral girder]

You take a bit to coat it on 3 pieces of Ammo

[umbral girder]

It’s an optional rule in the 2014 DMG

[empty thicket]

Depend of the DM, i would apply "player can, enemy can"

[umbral girder]

Attack roll vs target’s Athletics I think

You do no damage with the disarm

You can also just attack and destroy their weapons too

Since they got AC and HP in the 2014 DMG and 2024 PHB

[empty thicket]

Theory: Yes you can
Practice: Its complicated

[hot reef]

In a session? Not per level? Is this 2024?

[knotty vine]

Is there a limit on the number of spells you can cast on your turn?
There’s no rule that states you can cast only X number of spells on your turn, but there are some practical limitations. The main limiting factor is your action. Many spells require an action to cast, and unless a feature says otherwise, you only have one action on your turn. You also must abide by the rule of only expending one spell slot to cast a spell on your turn.

So, for example, if you take your Bonus Action to cast Healing Word using a spell slot, you can also take the Magic action to cast Vicious Mockery—a cantrip which doesn’t require a spell slot.

[rough basalt]

Ye

[umbral girder]

Yep! In 2014 it was similar

[rough basalt]

Or if you have something that can cast a spell without a spell slot you can cast it

[umbral girder]

Basically it was what ever boss monster has loot in the dungeon you’d get that much

2024 just swapped the Gems and Artwork for Gold Pieces

[rough basalt]

Like a Staff of Cold you can cone of cold out of it and cast Misty step as a bonus action with a slot.

[umbral girder]

And said “roll on this table roughly once a session”

[rough basalt]

I believe PCs should never get loot unless they wanna slip me a 5 dollar under the table /j

[umbral girder]

Personally I think loot is important to give to players.

Like gear customization from loot is a big part of most RPGs after all.

[rough basalt]

10 dollars under the table and you can get that healing potion