dnd-discussion

[severe fox]

which would make you immune to prone

[halcyon forum]

if you have lots of battles between long rests, its a big difference

[severe fox]

that too

[sudden hollow]

Ah we dont lol

[feral fulcrum]

The difference between Permanent flight and Temp fight is that Temp flight has limited uses. You only have so many charges/slots/potions/etc.

[severe fox]

dragons borns dont get as much flight as VF tiefs

[sudden hollow]

Yeah never ran into that as an issue

[feral fulcrum]

If you only ever have 1 fight then immediately long rest. The balance is no longer Balanced :V

[sudden hollow]

Granted I have also never NEEDED flight before

[severe fox]

didnt one of your characters die to a fall

[feral fulcrum]

Multiple encoutners per day is what the game is based around. And if you're not having that, well, difficulty goes way down.

[glad arch]

I was about to say

[crimson gulch]

most of the players i have killed with falling, were flying

[sudden hollow]

Yeah but we didnt have any flying availible, the wizard may have been able to learn it but idk

[glad arch]

Sounds like you needed flying in a moment where you didnt have it

[feral fulcrum]

The game expects resources being burned heavily, without immediate refreshes.

[severe fox]

thats why you always have feather fall

[sudden hollow]

Multiple per day?!?¿

We would die

[glad arch]

Yes? Like 4-5 is 'normal' i think

[severe fox]

your dm sounds extra baby mylord

[glad arch]

2 short rests on average

[sudden hollow]

We get 2 max. Normally

[crimson gulch]

cant use a reaction when they are incapacatated in the air, shooting a level 1 fairy wizard that is 30 feet up is instant death

[feral fulcrum]

I mean you already die, but that's because it sounds like your DM just sounds bad in general.

[glad arch]

Either that or throwing a tarrasque at lvl 5 party as every encounter

[rough basalt]

I once ran an adventure day that had 2 big story boss fights in it in total about 12 encounters

[halcyon forum]

I try to aim for at least 3-4 deadly battles per day

[sudden hollow]

We are on our way to a third but that may party wipe us. I have like no resources left and I dont think anyone else does either

[glad arch]

Bad budgeting

[severe fox]

thats what i was talking about tielfings being able to wear medium armor and still fly

[sudden hollow]

Well it had to be done. Im the only party member who can live more than 2 hits lol

[rough basalt]

Or gigadeadly encounters

[glad arch]

Spellcasters with 2-3 fights a day should have no reason to he running out of resources

[severe fox]

i hope strhd shows your party how to dance

[feral fulcrum]

Looks at their own constantly drained spell slots and charges I uh...may like being a Psychotic Nova too much.

[sudden hollow]

Different campaign sorry

[glad arch]

Wait youre playing curse of strahd? An actual module

[halcyon forum]

it does depend on level. it still can easily happen in tier 1

[sudden hollow]

Im in 2 cos, and stormwreck that we stitched more into to extend

[severe fox]

i remember him saying that all his spell casters dont use damaging cantrips

[glad arch]

And the stormwreck is the one you keep dying in?

[halcyon forum]

that would do it lol

[severe fox]

but all there spells are damging

even the bards 😭

how does a bard pick all damage

[glad arch]

12 year old playing pokemon logic

If it doesnt do damage its useless

[sudden hollow]

No, shockingly i havnt died. This is actually my first campaign I havnt fied in

[severe fox]

bard is almost alleric to damage in dnd

[sudden hollow]

I nearly died session one of cos

[feral fulcrum]

if it's early levels, that's standard.

[glad arch]

So the falling down a cliff was a previous campaign

[sudden hollow]

Yes that was dungeon of the mad mage I think?

[feral fulcrum]

Everyone falls over and dies if looked at slightly funny at level 1 and 2.

[severe fox]

your campaigns sound like a slog to go through in my opinion

[glad arch]

How do you keep dying in pre written modules

[feral fulcrum]

It's only around lvl 3 when you probably have enough HP to survive the odd crit.

[glad arch]

I would assume most newer ones are pretty well balanced

[sudden hollow]

Mad mage i died every session and 3 times in one session

[severe fox]

omg

[crimson gulch]

mad mage can be super deadly, love that campaign

[feral fulcrum]

You'd assume poorly.

[sudden hollow]

I am REALLY unlucky

[glad arch]

I see

[halcyon forum]

modules tend to be actually deadly for most players in the first 1-2 levels

[severe fox]

im kind nervous to run curse of strahd

[sudden hollow]

We made it to level 6 and I was still dying every session lol

[feral fulcrum]

WOTC is generally jsut bad at encounter Balance in general

[glad arch]

Super deadly campaign, casters without control, casters that dont use cantrips. I can see how youd die

[severe fox]

the only module that i think can be deadly at nay level of play is ToA

[feral fulcrum]

They rarely, if ever, hit a sweet spot between "Pitifully easy." and "Oh god the meatgrinder."

[crimson gulch]

my casters use cantrips and weapons alot, they know they get long adenturing days

[severe fox]

i love ToA

if im having a bad day ill just run ToA

[halcyon forum]

new true strike is such a blessing to casters in tier 1 imo

[glad arch]

Had to explain to a relativly new player making their character that when their spell slots ran out they in fact didnt have to run into melee (and die) but could just ise cantrips

[severe fox]

the new true strike is a blessing for anyone

[crimson gulch]

yeah, you have to teach new players everything

[feral fulcrum]

It's still stupid that it doesn't work on conjured weapons.

[severe fox]

i might run ToA once i have money

[feral fulcrum]

Such a completely unwarranted, unneeded nerf.

[severe fox]

i plan on buying foundery

[glad arch]

They got a -2str and 2 str weapons so any melee theyd do would probably heal more then dmg lol (i know negative damage doesnt heal)

[severe fox]

how often do you use conjured weapons..?

[feral fulcrum]

I'd like to use them fairly often as a Melee Caster.

[severe fox]

what weapons even count as "conjured" weapons??

i guess flame blade maybe

[woven flint]

Shadow Blade

[feral fulcrum]

Shadow Blade, Flame Blade.

[crimson gulch]

Flame Blade spell, Shadow blade

[sudden hollow]

My parties casters are all damage based they all hate combat that lasts more than 4 rounds. Even the dm said the goal for his combats is 2-4 rounds

[woven flint]

Flame Blade doesn't count a a weapon
It counts as a spell attack

[severe fox]

flame maybe but shadow is already good enough

[crimson gulch]

2-4 rounds is fine for most combnats

[glad arch]

Thats a pretty good aim for non boss combats though tbh

[severe fox]

flame blade allows you to add your mod to damage now right

[woven flint]

Flame Blade doesn't even work with Extra attack because it specifically says melee spell attack

Whereas Shadow Blade DOES work because it specifies its a weapon.

[severe fox]

that too

[sudden hollow]

They expending their spell slots like crazy to meet that goal tho

[severe fox]

i mean it is 3d6+mod

[glad arch]

Yes, if youre casting a leveled spell every turn youre gonna run out quickly

Especially lower levels

[sudden hollow]

No one's cantrips deal enough to kill anything in 4 turns lol

[glad arch]

1 chance to crit, 1 chance to hit, only 1 ability modifier added instead of possible 2

[woven flint]

Not bad, mediocre for anyone who'd want to use it though
Sorcerers and Wizards would suck in Melee TYPICALLY and Druid just has better options for melee playstyles.

[feral fulcrum]

It's Concentration based, costs a decent spell slot if you want it to keep up with magic weapons. And Casters that get it unless they're multi-classing or running Bladesinger, are giving up much higher damage spells, Crow Control, and the like, to be allowed to use a good Cantrip on a Good Spell Weapon.

[severe fox]

...

[glad arch]

Concentration spells and control spells save you a lot of spell slots

[severe fox]

your not suppose to kill everything in 4 turns

[sudden hollow]

Thats the goal, four rounds

[feral fulcrum]

Eldritch Blast is a good murder machinegun, especially in 2024

[severe fox]

4d10 at those high levels

[glad arch]

I feel like a goal rounds should be a dm concern. A player shouldnt go into combat assuming this is ~4 rounds

[sudden hollow]

We had 4 enemies with about 30 health, 4 with 60, and one with an ac or 20 and 140 health

Then we fought a chain devil

[severe fox]

nothing is resistance to force damage in 2024

[glad arch]

Saving throw spells will probably get trough the AC 20 guy a lot better

[severe fox]

so it makes eldritch blast really good

[sleek cloud]

sounds like at least 4 enemies you could kill with cantrips in 4 rounds or less

[sudden hollow]

Thats what the bard was casting

But it barely made a dent in its health

[severe fox]

you guys are gonna lose someday

[woven flint]

Fellas that are heavily armored are often bad at Dexterity 🧐

[severe fox]

if you keep burning through your slots

[feral fulcrum]

The damage type isn't even what makes it good, it's all the things that add effects and damage to it.

[sudden hollow]

He did and even got disadvantage on all the dex saves

[severe fox]

warlock is the ulimate class in 2024

[glad arch]

Dont tell my dm that, i dont wanna get fireballed lol

[woven flint]

My dm happily AOEs my 8 Dex Fighter, but I happily tank them.

[sudden hollow]

Since he was made of metal and the bard was upcasting shatter

[severe fox]

ill throw fire balls at any devil

[sleek cloud]

As a 2024 warlock, it most certainly is not the ultimate class.

Pretty solid though

[woven flint]

Ah, yes.. the ones who are typically immune fire

[severe fox]

i dont think shatter has an effect on creatures unless there construts

[severe fox]

meta magic it into thunder

[feral fulcrum]

Unless they're Dragoons. Then they're heavily armored guys who can do tripple backflips and leap tall buildings in a single bound.

[sudden hollow]

Shatter always damages creatures, they get disadvantage if they are constructs

[woven flint]

It works on anything, it just has more effects on Constructs

[sudden hollow]

20ac 120 hp dude was a construct

[severe fox]

you mentioned him being made of..

[sudden hollow]

A huge warforged

[severe fox]

what are we even talking about anymore!!

[rugged hawk]

Fireball is great. Fireball with Ascendant Fire is even better. Resist and Immunity can no longer reduce Fire damage. 👀

[sudden hollow]

Metal, he was a huge category warforged

[severe fox]

also 2014 warforged arent construts

there still humanoids

[woven flint]

The monster statblocks are.
The player characters aren't.

[severe fox]

are they?

[woven flint]

Yes

[severe fox]

weird

[fast latch]

Oh yeah that one’s awesome

[woven flint]

2024 Warforged are Constructs all around now

[feral fulcrum]

It's a relic of WOTC and associate being terrified of doing Non-humanoid types PCs

before they realized "Oh wait it's actually barely an issue."

[severe fox]

i still think kobolds should be the first playable dragon race

[feral fulcrum]

I don't

[fickle solstice]

Warforged are considered constructs?

[severe fox]

why

[feral fulcrum]

Don't water down the Dragon typing just because something's vaguely dragon related.

[woven flint]

Yes, they're made of inorganic materials and are.. forged

[severe fox]

2024 monster manual kobolds are dragon

[sleek cloud]

I mean, I’d rather take Dragonborn over kobolds

[feral fulcrum]

"Behold a Fish that once lived in a dragons lair, it's also Dragon types because it lived in a Lair."

[fickle solstice]

So some spells won't affect them..

[severe fox]

just like how i think new goblins/bugbears are gonna be fey

[feral fulcrum]

And I still think it's stupid :V

[rugged hawk]

I'm still sad Kobolds get tails and Dragonborn don't

[sudden hollow]

Dude. Dragon doesnt mean true dragon

That is a conon difference

[opaque tusk]

The 2024 manual has a dragonborn monk with a tail in it

[severe fox]

Kalastahr are Aberrations

[sleek cloud]

The unmatched power of saying “and my Dragonborn pc has a tail”

[feral fulcrum]

Shows a chicken "Behold! A Dragon!"

[severe fox]

why cant a kobold be a dragon

[sudden hollow]

Dragon turtle, sea serpent

[fickle solstice]

Aren't they closer to lizards

[rugged hawk]

Chickens are already dragons, they really, really don't need breath weapons

[severe fox]

Kobold Warrior
Small dragon , neutral

Winged Kobold
Small dragon , neutral

[rugged hawk]

Watch chickens hunt sometime and you'll realize they're literally still micro dinosaurs

Very angry dinosaurs

[severe fox]

i just want a player race for each creature type

[sudden hollow]

Are plasmoids oozes?

[severe fox]

yeah

[sudden hollow]

Yay

[fickle solstice]

I mean, I consider Kobold as lizards

[woven flint]

Kobolds are draconic beings
I don't see why them being Dragons would be stupid at all? Lol

[sudden hollow]

Dragons... are also lizards

[severe fox]

exactly

so making them dragons in the reprint isnt all that dumb

[woven flint]

LITERALLY
In lore
"Kobolds were the first of the dragonspawn and were created by Asgorath (another name for Io) alongside urds around −24,500 DR."

[fickle solstice]

Fair enough but Kobolds are geckos for me

[feral fulcrum]

I still say that the more that they add to the type that are not True Dragons rather waters down the typing.

[woven flint]

Kobolds are DRAGONSPAWN.

[sleek cloud]

You’re a dragonspawn

[severe fox]

how much more dragon can you get then that

[woven flint]

Maybe...

[severe fox]

unlike those fruads dragonborn

[woven flint]

If Io says they're dragons, then I think they're some damned dragons

[feral fulcrum]

Incredible magical power, breath weapons, and the ability to live for a couple hundred thousand years. :V

[severe fox]

so your saying an elf with dragonic bloodline sorcerer is a dragon

[feral fulcrum]

If they try hard enough, yes.

[severe fox]

shame

[feral fulcrum]

Looks at Shapechange

[severe fox]

also some kobolds can live that long too

[sudden hollow]

How are they frauds? They actively detest people thi king they are at all related to dragons? They hate dragons

[severe fox]

in older editions kobolds could live as long as 2000ish years

[sudden hollow]

Thats crazy. Still younger than my oldest pc, but crazy lol

[severe fox]

thats older then anything in 5e

unless your immortal or a dhampier

[feral fulcrum]

Ancient Greatwyrms would like a word with you.

[severe fox]

acient greatwyrms are compared to the likes of gods

[sudden hollow]

Nope, elf warlock pact of the undying. Lifespan extended by 10x.

[feral fulcrum]

eww undying

[sudden hollow]

Pact was made at his birth so he would naturally live to be around 7000

[woven flint]

Elf Druids:

[severe fox]

undying is such a d tier subclass

[sudden hollow]

I like it. Its cool

[sleek cloud]

I can do a pretty great worm myself, nobody ever compares me to the likes of gods 😔

[woven flint]

It's cool, but it's BAD..
like, horrendous

[feral fulcrum]

It's objectively mid.

[sudden hollow]

Why?

[feral fulcrum]

Undead both hits the Flavor better, and is mechanically a thousand times more useful.

[severe fox]

elf druids are the longest living player could be without becoming immortal as well

[feral fulcrum]

Undying Warlock is jsut a really, really, really, really, REALLY crappy Cleric

[severe fox]

truth andreal

[sudden hollow]

.... ngl never compared them

[severe fox]

its just a victim of old game design

[sudden hollow]

But I dont ay wylt anything like a cleric so maybe thats why

Play*

[severe fox]

like that one radiant punching monk

sun soul

[sleek cloud]

I hope they update that

[sudden hollow]

Oooh didnt know thatexisted

[severe fox]

its really bad

[sudden hollow]

That sounds great for vos

[feral fulcrum]

SCAG was definitely the worst thing WOTC's put out

[rugged hawk]

Neither Undying nor Undead quite hit the spot I wanted for my Warlock, so I ended up merging them into a singular Patron with half the abilities of one, and half the abilities of the other.

[sudden hollow]

Cos*

My warlock just hands back and spams eldritch blast

Hangs*

[feral fulcrum]

like 90% of Warlocks do

[severe fox]

who looked at sun soul and was like "this is the move"

[sleek cloud]

But swashbuckler rogue

[halcyon bison]

Hello!!

[sudden hollow]

Thats why I never knew undying was considered bad. He does his job as a warlock

[severe fox]

didnt that come from Xana?

[feral fulcrum]

Frankly I don't see the appeal of "Sit bck and do the same thing every encounter."

[sleek cloud]

Apparently not, had to go check

[severe fox]

what book did it come from?

[sudden hollow]

Thats... all I do period. Bonk just stands in their face and swings

[karmic heath]

A barbarian has 20 in strength….two feats and one asi investment into strength….should it get a belt of fire giant strength?
Or would that defeat their ASI investment?

[feral fulcrum]

If your Subclass doesn't add anythin to your charecter, and is pretty much meaningless in 99.99999% of your chocies and functions. It's a bad subclass. :V

[halcyon bison]

yeah.... I like the vibes of warlocks the most out of any class I think, but when I played it just doing eldritch blast all the time was super boring

[sleek cloud]

Well, SCAG

[severe fox]

where is the belt coming from is the better question

[woven flint]

I just.. Pact of the Blade
Always :]

[sudden hollow]

Warlocks patron is just for background. They are all eb spammers

[feral fulcrum]

Nope

[severe fox]

oh still an awful book

[opaque tusk]

I'm kind of new to D&D so I could be wrong but like

Rangers seem kind of weak?? I feel like you could get more value as they do in combat with a spellcaster using cantrips

[woven flint]

SCAG also gave us.. Bladesinger

[feral fulcrum]

You have Spell slots, with good Spells. With Subclasses giving you good features that should be used.

[sudden hollow]

Spellslots? Where?

[feral fulcrum]

Undead, for example. Bonus action Extra HP, extra damage, the ability to Frighten Enemies.

[severe fox]

but it also gave us sun soul

[severe fox]

pact lsots

[feral fulcrum]

Look at your features ya goof

[sleek cloud]

Warlocks are great when you don’t try to blow every limited spell slot you’ve got immediately

[sudden hollow]

Im being sarcastic cause they get a whopping 2

The rest of the time is eb

[severe fox]

SCAG also gave us Path of the Battlerager

[sleek cloud]

Blade pact ftw

[severe fox]

the worst subclass of ALL TIME

[sleek cloud]

Not wrong there

[feral fulcrum]

They're even better when you actually use them though. And don't spend three years while casting exactly four whole spells.

[severe fox]

but they recover them on a short rest

[crimson gulch]

ahhhhh so hype, curse of strahd tonight

[woven flint]

Has more usuable functionality than Undying.

[sudden hollow]

Yes which as yall stated shouldn't be more than twice a day

[severe fox]

haha true

[woven flint]

It's bad, but you still proactively do shit

[feral fulcrum]

"BuT I MiGhT NeEd It LaTeR! " Disease is real, and stupid.

[severe fox]

you can get more then 2 short rest in a day

thats just a limit your dm set in stone for whatever reason

[sudden hollow]

No that was mentioned in this chat

[sleek cloud]

Well yeah they’re meant to be used, but they just gotta be more mindful than other casters is what I was trying to get at lol

[rugged hawk]

Undead gave us Form of Dread, Grave Touched, Necrotic Husk, and Spirit Projection.
Undying gave us Among the Dead, Defy Death, Undying Nature, and Indestructible Life.

Neither quite fit my Patron or the character's theme, so I merged them into a custom Patron offering Form of Dread, Grave Touched, Necrotic Husk, and Indestructible Life.

[severe fox]

theres no limit to short rest you can get in a day...

[sleek cloud]

But also invocations are the real mvp for warlocks

[severe fox]

you can only benefit from 1 long rest a day

[sudden hollow]

Yeah but then we run onto the issue of begging for a rest every single encounter

[severe fox]

its only 1 hour of doing nothing?

[feral fulcrum]

That's why they get them back on a short rest.

[feral fulcrum]

10 mintues with Cat Nap

[severe fox]

or that

[sudden hollow]

There are only 24 hours in a day

[sleek cloud]

I know lol

[severe rampart]

Wouldn't it be 24 per day? since a short rest is an hour

[severe rampart]

Oop, Echo'd your words

[feral fulcrum]

And every other class has, generally, stuff they get back on Short Rests too.

[severe fox]

yeah but still that means a warlock could potentially have more 3rd level spell slots then anyone else if you use your short rest stuff

[woven flint]

Who said a day in D&D is ONLY 24 hours?

The realms have 10 days in a week, btw.

[feral fulcrum]

So actually taking short rests, is beneficial to everyone, but especially warlocks

[severe fox]

idk

[sleek cloud]

Name all 10 days tokster

[severe rampart]

I dunno

[feral fulcrum]

Today, Tomorrow, Yesterday...

[sudden hollow]

I sadly get 1 usable feature back on bonk. But thats more than what most of my party got back😅. And after our huge fights we are about to enter a third massive one

[severe rampart]

oh uhh August too don't forget that

[rugged hawk]

Also, months are 30 days in D&D, in 10-day week increments

[woven flint]

Thurswesday

[feral fulcrum]

Varies from seting to setting, I'd presume anyway/

[severe rampart]

The dot over the I is July, and also Tuesdays, and sometimes never

[severe fox]

First‑day

Second‑day

[rugged hawk]

Obviously

[severe fox]

its named like that i kid you not

i remember reading about it in the bg3 book

i meant BG:DiA

[severe rampart]

The timeline of DnD goes in a Jeremy Bearimi, The Good Place style

[sudden hollow]

While im excited for cos this weekend.. I am mortified of next week's session.. I may be the only survivor

[severe fox]

Dawn
The time around sunrise.
Morning
The time between sunrise and highsun.
Highsun
When the sun was directly overhead; also called "noon" or "twelve bells".
Afternoon
The time after noon.
Dusk
The time before sunset.
Sunset

dnd doesnt really have a set amount of hours in a day now that i look at it

[severe rampart]

Oh I am excited for my next time DMing curse of Strahd, more lore for players... a lot of lore, actually

[sudden hollow]

That is my good table im at. I can actually contribute meaningfully since im the only one that deals radiant damage.. and has heals

[severe fox]

didnt you say there was another paladin>?

[severe rampart]

Most my PCs can deal radiant damage, true strike baby

[severe fox]

he only plays 2014 🦨

[sudden hollow]

In bonks campaign. Not in cos

[severe rampart]

Now it's session 2 I am now allowed to kill PCs /j

[sudden hollow]

I nearly died session one cos

[severe fox]

your campgions sound like a headache to go through

[severe rampart]

My players also did

I could've tpked them, but I held back

[sudden hollow]

Our cos group is cleric (me) bard, fighter, and rogue

4 of us total

[severe fox]

tasha told be about playing in Echo's game i couldnt stop laughing

can the bard not heal?

[sudden hollow]

Uh. Idk. He is new new, so is the fighter

[severe rampart]

Then they probably didn't tell you everything

[sudden hollow]

This is their first time playing its father (fighter) and son(bard)

[severe fox]

oh no they told me everything

[sudden hollow]

I dont thi k he can heal tho

[severe fox]

mainly how it ended in a "tpk" cause a player left or something cause she was being snarky

[sudden hollow]

Think*

[severe fox]

starhd is going to tear you all a new one

[severe rampart]

Still not everything

[severe fox]

what else did they do>?

[sudden hollow]

Maybe. Me and the fighter combo really well

Since I can give him advantage and double his damage

[severe fox]

strahd is a wizard vampire

[severe rampart]

Not them, Tasha, though I find it to be rude to talk behind someone's back

[sudden hollow]

Plus I wont heal unless someone goes down

[severe fox]

im sure she wont mind

[severe fox]

ah rubber banding

[sudden hollow]

Grave domain

Max healing

[severe fox]

i know

still a gross way of playing

[thorn wedge]

I like the homebrew rule that coming back from death saves gives you a level of exhaustion

[sudden hollow]

May also take a few sorcerer levels for distant spell..

[sudden hollow]

Downed isnt death

[severe rampart]

I'm pretty sure in the session she was playing a game, I think League of Legends? In the background, whenever I would ask them what they were doing, they'd act disinterested, and it really kind of brought the vibe down, this was when I was a newer DM so it put a different pressure on me

[severe fox]

LMAO

[woven flint]

You.. still do Death Saves when you're downed

[thorn wedge]

Ye, I didn’t say it was

[sudden hollow]

Yeah, to avoid death, downed isnt death

[severe rampart]

As the cleric, they weren't healing the others either, which got really frustrating for the other players, not a single HP was given by her

[woven flint]

Nobody said it was

[sudden hollow]

There is already a written rule for that

[severe fox]

that doesnt sound like the tasha i know

imma talk to her about it later

[sudden hollow]

The lowest level death reversal leaves you with several levels exhaustion

[sudden hollow]

Dang thats like... their entire existence

Normally. I did play a non heal cleric before

Forge domain

[severe fox]

they mean theres a house rule to where if you get reduced to 0 hit point and bought back you'd gain 1 level of exhastion

[sudden hollow]

Oh thats just mean

[severe fox]

i like it

[sudden hollow]

Thats like... 4 levels of exhaustion per encounter

[woven flint]

That's incredibly rude.

[severe rampart]

Eh, but I've recovered from that point, the second oneshot ran much better, also ended in a TPK, now those players are my players in the Curse of Strahd campaign

[severe fox]

thats if you get downed each encounter

[sudden hollow]

Yeah...thats my normal

[severe fox]

which is just wow

[sudden hollow]

Im impressed im doing so well this compaign

[sleek cloud]

Careful Icarus

[severe rampart]

A little, yeah, as a new DM I struggled to deal with that, but got back up, since I had another session lined up, and it went amazingly well

[sudden hollow]

Only been downed once in 5 levels. It is a new record by a mile seeing as all previous characters died before a level up

And new ones got introduced after the level up

[severe rampart]

Honestly that whole oneshot with Tasha did sort of help me with one thing important with DMing which is to make sure the entire party has chemistry and when they start to feel uncomfortable

[crimson gulch]

thats mean, and that means something coming from me, i have 22 dead PC's so far this year

[thorn wedge]

Definitely more punishing to go down, although it would kinda screw over a grave domain cleric

[severe fox]

it is

[woven flint]

When the problem player actually does something good for the dm

[thorn wedge]

Since that’s a large part of their schtick

[severe rampart]

(This year being 2 and a half months)

[sudden hollow]

Thats my normal! As a player. As a dm I am ... worse

[severe fox]

so tasha was the main problem not the other two got it

still amazing to see it from both sides rather then one

[crimson gulch]

yes, 67 sessions, 22 PC kills

so far

[sudden hollow]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/161224431/qCijSX

[woven flint]

... 6 7 ...

[severe fox]

CEASE

[sudden hollow]

This is my cos character

[woven flint]

I'm so sorry, a voice in my head told me to

[vivid pelican]

I am almost home from school

[thorn wedge]

A pc death almost every 3 sessions is wild

[severe fox]

a drow

[sudden hollow]

Yes

[thorn wedge]

Better not get too attached lol

[sudden hollow]

Attached?

[vivid pelican]

Who wants to witness the ever-growing power of Greg the Sorcerer; Magic school drop out

[sudden hollow]

I already have 4 backups for him 🤣

[crimson gulch]

yep 67, i only take a few nights off per month

[severe rampart]

... My DM takes away one charisma point from me every time I make a 67 joke

[severe fox]

finish him

[severe fox]

whats your chrisma rn

[severe rampart]

Thankfully I've kept myself in check, 19

[rough basalt]

Ngl good /hj

[sudden hollow]

A had a player who would stop with the 420 and 69 jokes. I gave them the necklace of invincibility

[thorn wedge]

Assuming a party of 5 and that all players die equally often that would mean about every 15 sessions there would be an entirely new party.

[severe rampart]

My character's HP is 67 as well😭

[vivid pelican]

I have a +6 on all charisma rolls because my druid is some kind of a sweet talker

[thorn wedge]

Bc the old party had died lol

[vivid pelican]

I convinced an ogre to stab himself in the heart

[severe fox]

find a way to get 3 max hp rn

[severe rampart]

... I have +7 to all charisma rolls...

It's fate

[vivid pelican]

"Oh you wanna stab yourself in the heart so bad right now... oOoOoOoO~!"

[severe fox]

i still wanna know why people ban elo bard

[sudden hollow]

Elo?

[severe rampart]

They can't handle the Chess Grandmaster

[severe fox]

eloquence

[woven flint]

That's definitely not how Charisma works lmao

Charisma isn't mind control

[rugged hawk]

Yeah, that's more like a Succubus charm

[sudden hollow]

Why nottt. Worked in bg3? 🤣🤣🤣

[severe rampart]

Let me take the suffering from you~

[vivid pelican]

Ik. It was a joke

[rough basalt]

Cause it's primarily a single player game.

[severe fox]

even succubus aint convince someone to harm themselves

[severe fox]

LIE its co-op as well

[sudden hollow]

Playing jt single player js... sad

[rugged hawk]

You clearly never encountered Wrath of the Righteous. Also, it's actual magical charm, not just 'talking'.

[woven flint]

The Succubus starts talking like Lowtiergod

[sudden hollow]

It*

[rough basalt]

I almost never played coop tbh

[rotund thunder]

lowtierdevil

[severe fox]

i always play it with friends

[rotund thunder]

"you should walk into a pit trap, NOW"

[woven flint]

Hightierdevil

[sudden hollow]

I have to or it gets boring fast

[rough basalt]

My friends wouldn't play honour mode.

[sudden hollow]

Fair enough

[woven flint]

Succubi aren't Devils, btw 🤔

[severe fox]

in forgetton realms they are

[severe rampart]

Dissonant Whispers, War Caster Opportunity Attack: Eldritch Blast with Repelling Blast, push them off a cliff

[severe fox]

other then that there orgin is from the abyss

[woven flint]

No, they're literally not considered devils

[vivid pelican]

"Trust me. There are harmless dames im that dark pit with the spiky traps! I swear! Just walk in and kill them!"

[thorn wedge]

“You are as significant as a summer goblin”

[rough basalt]

There's a Fiend category where some Fiends don't fall under any umbrella.

[sudden hollow]

This guy is the parties strongest so far. Highest hp and ac. And access to radiant damage

[rough basalt]

Night Hags, Succubi/Incubi to name a few

[sudden hollow]

And a wisdom save lol

[vivid pelican]

I remember one time, I made a goblin oof himself because my bard used viscous mockery

[severe fox]

brain bleed

are there any cantrips that do half damage?

[woven flint]

Rakshasa also aren't under Devils, Demons or Yugoloths
They're just their own thing

[woven flint]

Evoker Wizard can

[hot reef]

I believe there’s an effect with a subclass that makes save cantrips do half damage
School of Evocation Wizard

[severe fox]

thats cool i guessssss

Evo Wizard!!

[rotund thunder]

I'm actually a little miffed that oni were changed from giant to fiend in the 2024 stuff. I know traditionally oni are treated as the same thing as demons in most legends, but giants kinda desperately needed more creatures under that creature type umbrella

[sudden hollow]

Whats that?

[severe fox]

i mean it kinda makes since

[severe fox]

they still an ability from lore bard but there main ability sliver tongue is considered broken for some reason

[sudden hollow]

Whats it do?

[severe fox]

aka you cant roll below a 9-10 on a persuasion or deception check

[sudden hollow]

... I need to remember that

Thats like... perfect for me

[rotund thunder]

Also, side note, but 2024 Oni are horrifying to fight

[severe fox]

i know

i love the new oni!

[sudden hollow]

I have never played bard tho

I made one ever but he is so situational I dont think I will ever get to play him

[rotund thunder]

I think oni are very underrated monsters, especially now that they have a nightmare ray, shapeshifting, and the ability to go invisible as a bonus action

[severe fox]

unsetting words is just lore bard but minus the being able to be immune to it

[sudden hollow]

I have also never played a rogue, druid, artificer, wizard, barbarian, or... that may be it actually

[severe fox]

fun fact eloquence was a part of Mythic Odysseys of Theros first before being ported to tasha's

[hot reef]

BA invisibility+hide action and cover (because +3 stealth isn’t much), regen, and stealth attack

[severe fox]

regen?

[hot reef]

Oni has 10hp/turn regen

[severe fox]

ah

theres also universeal speech which is a decent ability

[hot reef]

2014 Oni is still scary, it’s harder to pull off the regen since it’s an action to go invisible, but it has Cone of Cold

[severe fox]

how is regen an action?

[hot reef]

It’s passive

[severe fox]

oh

you mean invisble is an action

[hot reef]

Although its optimal to regenerate for multiple turns while hidden until fully healed

[severe fox]

the fact that the regen cant be stopped unles you use death touch or whatever that cantrip is

[hot reef]

Chill Touch only works for one turn

[severe fox]

keep hitting it

you have a range of 120ft

unlesss its 2024

[sleek cloud]

Rip 2024 chill touch

[severe fox]

yeah chill touch is now a range of touch

[hot reef]

Can’t do that if it’s hidden in an unknown space

[severe fox]

hidden only applies the unseen creature so its just disadvantage

2024 hidden just gives you the invisible condition

[hot reef]

I believe it still implies that their location is unknown

[severe fox]

unknown location isnt really a thing in 2024

unless its somehow utterly undectable somehow

[hot reef]

Nvm yeah

[severe fox]

2014 hiding was super weird

[hot reef]

2024 hiding is really strange

[severe fox]

hiding in general is really weird imo

[hot reef]

2024 fixed part of it then broke another part

[rotund thunder]

Now that hiding is the invisible condition, see invisibility strangely reveals hiding creatures

[severe fox]

It doesn’t..

[rotund thunder]

why doesn't it? Hiding is the invisible condition now?

[severe fox]

It gives you the invisible condition yes but to reveal a hiding creature you have to find them

[rotund thunder]

I'm gonna be honest, the hiding rules still confuse me. They confuse me slightly less, but still

[severe fox]

The invisibility spell applies the invisible condition. Hiding applies the invisible condition. NOTHING in either hiding or the spell indicates that any special sense is required to see a creature with the invisible condition. All the conditions says is "If a creature can somehow see you" BUT the spell has NOTHING in the text indicating that the creature affected by the spell can't be seen except by magic or special senses. The ONLY thing the spell does is apply the invisible condition which ALSO contains no text related to whether a creature is seen or unseen.

That means a creature with true sight would automatically see you hiding

[rotund thunder]

Weirdly, I also noticed that truesight's wording was changed in a way that indicates RAW natural shapeshifting isn't seen through by truesight anymore as well, so a changeling or other creature with a nonmagical shapeshifting ability cannot have their true form seen through

This really doesn't seem intended, but it does seem to be RAW by my reading

[severe fox]

Depends on the type of shapeshifting

[rotund thunder]

Now, magical transforming like how dragons now use shapechange to change their form is fine to see through

[rugged hawk]

That's correct, yes. This is how True Sight is intended to work, far as I've always known.

[severe fox]

It’s meant to see through illusions and magical darkness not Jim the rogue hiding behind a barrel

[sleek cloud]

Hiding also requires passing a dc15 stealth check now too doesn’t it

And the dc to find you is whatever you rolled above that?

[severe fox]

I still needs a DC 15 dex check

[sleek cloud]

And of course the obscurement or cover part too

[knotty vine]

ive been unleashed

[rugged hawk]

Freedom is an illusion, you're still leashed.

[wispy vector]

Excluding multiclassing and the Moderately Armed feat and including magic items, are there any solid AC options for a Bard?

[wispy vector]

Illusion is Freedom.
At least if you're that kinda wizard

[feral fulcrum]

Use cover.

[wispy vector]

I mean, fair point

[sudden hollow]

Our sorcerer just hides behind me after every attack

[rugged hawk]

Freedom is an illusion as long as we're living under the tyranny of Verified server status

[feral fulcrum]

Because outside of Magic Items, there's exactly like three things not tied to your species that increase AC, Moderately Armored, the Defense fighting style, and a Shield.

[sudden hollow]

5.5 e?

[normal canyon]

Hi

[feral fulcrum]

2014 as well

[sudden hollow]

Medium armor master?

[wispy vector]

And in terms of magic items?
Would a +3 Leather armor be the best?

[feral fulcrum]

AC increases are generraly tied to magic items

[rugged hawk]

Last I knew, magical elven chain was the best for bards

[feral fulcrum]

Technically speaking a +3 Shield would be the best

Because that's a total of +5

[sudden hollow]

If you get medium armor proficiency, take medium armor master. Its great.

[wispy vector]

Yeah, but there's stuff like Bracers of Defense which is basically just a shield if you're a monk or using mage armor

[sudden hollow]

There is actually something else for monks and barbs now

+1/2/3 clothing

Doesn't count as armor but ups ac

[lost ice]

medium armor master is awful, +1 AC is now worth a feat

[wispy vector]

Interesting that they went the extra mile

[sudden hollow]

Thats not all it does?

It also removed disadvantage on sneaks

Its a fantastic feat

[lost ice]

no it doesn't?

[sudden hollow]

Yes it does

[molten pumice]

Not in 5.5 unfortunately

[lost ice]

even if it still did, not worth it

[wispy vector]

So in short:
As a 5e2014 bard I should just get Moderately Armored instead of Bracers of Defense and Mage Armor, or some other magic item?

[feral fulcrum]

What book is that in?

[molten pumice]

But the 5.5 ver boosts Dex or Str which can be nice

[sudden hollow]

Pugilist

[lethal otter]

Good eavening yall

[feral fulcrum]

That's Homebrew.

[lethal otter]

How we doing

[sudden hollow]

Get medium armor master too if you have hooded dex

Good*

[umbral girder]

Pugilist is in fact not official content

[sudden hollow]

Then search for half plate

[lost ice]

best AC increase for a bard is getting Shield via Magic Initiate

[worn surge]

hii

[lethal otter]

Hola

[flint ledge]

Hallooo!

[sudden hollow]

Really? Thought anything released on dnd beyond counted

[feral fulcrum]

Lol, no.

[lethal otter]

How do yall deal with scheduling isues

[umbral girder]

No that is very much not the case

[sudden hollow]

Ah thats how we run it

[umbral girder]

A lot of the things on Dnd Beyond isn’t official

[worn surge]

i haven’t been here for a bit but i finally got a campaign going with my friends group yippee

[flint ledge]

No dnd beyond has partnered 3rd party content

[feral fulcrum]

D&D Beyond sells Third Party content by the Boatload

[umbral girder]

They even have a button to filter things as official on D&D Beyond and Not official

[sudden hollow]

As long as its not explicitly from the homebrew section

[lethal otter]

Thats the hardest step. Well done 👍

[umbral girder]

Yeah they have a filter that even shows which is official and what isn’t. Pugilist is very much not official

Like Gunslinger and Illrigger

[sudden hollow]

Well that sucks. Its such a good class. Im still allowing it tho

[lost ice]

homebrew section is a free community homebrew section but there are folks creating content for living too

[sudden hollow]

Havnt heard of those

[umbral girder]

All of them go in #third-party and not here

[flint ledge]

Quite honestly it's good that the puglist isn't official. It's just a monk but better from what I've heard

[lethal otter]

?

[umbral girder]

Find a group that does work with it.

[sudden hollow]

More of a monk but varied. Monks are still better at being monks. Pugilist get to tap into different roles. They can be tank, healer, dps, utility, anything, but at a lesser value than a full class would be

Each pugilist subclass taps into a different full class. Like drad hand being warlocks, dog and hound is ranger esque, street saint is paladin/cleric ect

Dread hand*

Also, improvised weapons are totally viable now

[lost ice]

I think Pugilist's worst offense is that its structure is simply badly designed. Everything is a limited resource with an alternative way to replenish it. It lacts simple, effective features that are easy to rememeber: Monk can attack as a bonus action period, rogue can disengage/dash/hide as a bonus action period; pugilist is a pachinko machine of charges and uses and points

[woven flint]

Dread Hand is probably THE worst subclass of the lot

[sudden hollow]

Pugilist can also attack as a bonus action period..

[lost ice]

I don't remember, I got literally tired reading it

[feral fulcrum]

By aiming for something that works for everyone at the table. If one person can't make any time, then, oh well, guess they're not playing.

[thorn wedge]

I was reading it earlier. It is pretty convoluted.

[woven flint]

Yeah, Pugilist can attack as a bonus action, it's in Fisticuffs lol

[sudden hollow]

I thought it made sense..

[thorn wedge]

It does make sense, but it’s just a lot more complex than most other classes.

[woven flint]

Yeah, I don't see what's so convoluted about it

I will agree too many features are charge based

[sudden hollow]

I didnt think so. I mean obviously its not as simple as a barb or fighter swinging every turn but id put it with superiority die in terms of complexity

[umbral girder]

Also wasn’t there something a subclass feature had when we read it on release that literally can’t be used?

[thorn wedge]

After reading it I can also say that the person I had in one of my games who was playing it definitely wasn’t even using most of its features correctly or some at all, it seems very strong for martial class. It was pretty mediocre when they played it, but on paper it shouldn’t be.

[umbral girder]

It was like with Weapon Mastery I think

[woven flint]

Weapon masteries with unarmed strikes or whatever, I think?

[umbral girder]

Plus you dread hand with “1 spell slot that comes back on a long rest!”

So helpful

[feral fulcrum]

Sounds like typical bad homebrew things

[sudden hollow]

Thatsvhow I feel about warlocks in general

[umbral girder]

Couldn’t even come back on a short rest

[sudden hollow]

Even if it come back on a short rest, getting my party to take one is a pain

[umbral girder]

It’s literally the warlock meme from people who don’t know how to play a warlock but made even worse in slots

[valid geyser]

Dread hand puglist is good because it gets the free reroll on a miss

[sudden hollow]

Piss and vinegar is my fave pugilist

Streat saint is also good

[valid geyser]

I remember thinking a lot of pugilist subs were good, but a little BA intensive
Pugilists got a lot of bonus actions

[umbral girder]

They don’t even get more slots on level up too.

[sudden hollow]

As someone who exclusively played warlocks for years.. constantly needing a short rest kinda sucked

Best cantrip in the game tho

5.5e sourcerous burst is a solid contender

But so is presdigitatiom

I probably spelled that wrong

[umbral girder]

Except it doesn’t even get the big benefits of Eldritch Blast either.

[sudden hollow]

What foesnt?

Doesn't*

[feral fulcrum]

Prestidigitation is basically pure fluff.

[sudden hollow]

Being able to piss an enemies pants is funny asf

[low wraith]

Is street saint worth the healing pool u think?

[feral fulcrum]

Not really how it works, but it's how childish players like to think it does.

[sudden hollow]

It quit literally is how it works. You can clean or soil something

[feral fulcrum]

Yes, but by soiling something it doesn't mean "I magically put crap in your pants." It's more "You now have grass stains."

[sudden hollow]

Being able to clean something alone is massively useful

[gusty shell]

How active is this server?

[sudden hollow]

Depends on the goal of the caster. It doesnt limit what the soiling is

I have had players use it to make weapon or armor look run down and get a discount from a merchant before

Or vice versa and clean their stuff shiny and sell for mode

More.

Not to mention the effect being clean will have during social encounters

I have also allowed a player to unseason food before...which was hilarious

[undone rain]

So what realm do the aasimar come from

[valid geyser]

Material plane

[sudden hollow]

And thats all from just ONE of its uses

Its like a Swiss army knife of utility all in a cantrip

[undone rain]

Ah right aasimar are similair to tieflings in the sense that their parents can be a whole other race

[valid geyser]

Pretty much yeah. Aasimar are tieflings with celestial ancestry instead of fiendish

[undone rain]

Precisley

[sudden hollow]

Tieflings are kinda funny. What a way to find out your great great great great great granny was a succubus

[undone rain]

That sure is smth

[sudden hollow]

Not so funny when your parents think you are cursed and kick you to the curb

This is actual the backstory of my favorite pc who I have never actually played

[undone rain]

Feel bad for tieflings, just seen as outcasts for their fiendish blood.

Bg3 sums up tiefling oppression ngl

[hollow hedge]

My players Handbook comes in tomorrow :D

[sudden hollow]

My current dm doesnt like the racial bigotry in the lore so he doesnt include it. Elves treat dwarves and evwryone else just fine. No one bats an eye at a tiefling, warforged, or herrengon

I for one find it hilarious when an elf and dwarf player spite eachother in roleplay for the love of the game

Or when my tabaxi player played along when the party would bribe him with fresh fish or yarn

[undone rain]

Yeah fair enough

[sudden hollow]

Its probably my least favorite ruling. Completely eliminated our bards tension

She is a changling and wants to hide it but has no reason too cause everyone accepts her immediately

I had to rewrite my first characters mistrust for organics

Now that I think about it... our goblins backstory got nerfed a bit too... cause his entire thing was how he wasnt excepted back home cause he was a goblin adopted by human parents

And after the dm said that we are like...they hid yiu why?

You*

[knotty vine]

maybe because goblins are considered naturally monstrous

[undone rain]

I should play a divine soul sorcerer someday

[knotty vine]

chosen by god

[sudden hollow]

Except.. because he removed racial discrimination, they arent

They are just as normal as a human in the towns eyes

[knotty vine]

even without "racial discrimatnion" goblins still do bad things

and are known for doing bad things

[sudden hollow]

Yeah but everyone acts like they dont. There is no preconceived distrust between races. Drows and elves get along perfectly fine. No races playable or otherwise is heard or treated different

[knotty vine]

drows are known for a doing a lot of bad things

[sudden hollow]

Ik. So you'd think the guards would keep an eye on a drow but nope

[knotty vine]

im saying just because your dm treats it as such doesnt mean it doesnt happen

[sudden hollow]

That... is literally how it works

The dm gets the final say in how his world works

[undone rain]

Ohhh i might have an idea, a divine soul sorcerer aasimar who was abondoned by their god. But instead of turning to side of evil they stay good and fights beasts and evil divine beings

[sudden hollow]

Aasimar oathbreaker. Sworn to his god, God turned evil, he didnt wanna be evil and breaks his oath

[knotty vine]

i mean this is the same world where you dont use the cover rules so

[crimson gulch]

No one has to run the game with racism.

[sudden hollow]

Yeah ik which also sucks

[knotty vine]

also you have a baby dm as well with a very closed mind

[sudden hollow]

I wanted to be mobile cover

[undone rain]

I have a similair oathbreaker idea, took the oath of the crown to a king but soon that king died and his heir took over. But he turned corrupt and such the paladin breaks his oath

[sudden hollow]

I love it

[knotty vine]

divine soul is really connected to a god as much as an oathbreaker would be through

[sudden hollow]

Oooh. Oath of glory paladin whose friends turned evil, and so he had to turn them in breaking his oath to always support them

[undone rain]

Oooo thats a good one. There are a few reasons why an oathbreaker would still be good

[knotty vine]

oath breakers have to be evil for some reason

which is still really weird to me

[sudden hollow]

My favorite is oath of redemption has sworn never to kill again... but give him a counter. Every time a party member goes down it counts down. Once it depletes he breaks his oath slaughtering those who harmed his friends

[noble tusk]

Very Jaime Lannister coded, I think he's a great example of oathbreaker conceptually

[undone rain]

Guess its cuz of their powers being from an evil source but ehhh? Works well for redemption too

[sudden hollow]

Technically its relative

[knotty vine]

it legit says to take this subclass you have to be level 3 and of the evil aliment

[sudden hollow]

The party of good players seem pretty evil to the henchmen

[knotty vine]

unless the dm overrules it

[sudden hollow]

The bbeg's kid probably foesnt see you as a good guy after you've killed his mom or dad

You'd be evil in the kids eyes

[knotty vine]

i doubt the lich could have kids but ok

[undone rain]

Love me some good redemption

[sudden hollow]

Why not?

[knotty vine]

undeads cant have spawn

[sudden hollow]

One of my characters is the adopted child of a lich

[knotty vine]

thats adopted

[sudden hollow]

Thats still my dad

[knotty vine]

also how?

[sudden hollow]

He raised me

[knotty vine]

thats a very effy backstory

[sudden hollow]

Its inspired by a show (loosly)

[knotty vine]

how did your character not take issue with his dad eating the souls of others and was just like "yeah that seems good"

[noble tusk]

Sounds very anime lowkey lmao

One of the kind with the really really long name

[sudden hollow]

The Ancient Magus' Bride

[rugged hawk]

Remember, using orphanages for your sacrificial rituals is a victimless crime. What're they gonna do, tell their parents?

[knotty vine]

my dad is clearly a very good man

[sudden hollow]

He dad 1. Tried to hide it from him and 2. Its why my character became an adventurer

[noble tusk]

Oh hey I've heard of that one, never watched it but I've heard of it

[knotty vine]

tried and failed:

[sudden hollow]

To bring the souls of badguys to his father so innocents dont have to die

[proven mountain]

I love that backstory

[undone rain]

"I was reborn into a new world and my father is a lich"

[sudden hollow]

I thought it was nice

[knotty vine]

its a strange backstory

not normal

[sudden hollow]

I have another one where the tiefling child of a devil sends the souls of sinners to his parents. Who support him being good because he supplies them with damned souls

[knotty vine]

and again the rituals to even become a lich are still noted in dnd as some of the most evil acts you can do

[sudden hollow]

Yeah, doesnt mean a lich cant want to be a dad

[knotty vine]

like a lich to a billionaire there is no "moral" way of becoming one

[sudden hollow]

Never claimed there was lol

[hollow stone]

i thought it was adventure time 😭

[sudden hollow]

Never seen it

[proven mountain]

Better to have a lich eat your soul then be sent to the nine hells and become a lemur lol

[knotty vine]

its very similar

[hollow stone]

woman basically adopted by wizard

[knotty vine]

you'd have to be very evil for that to happen

[sudden hollow]

As a dm i have a story where the lich puts his phylactory into en executioners block

Ethical soul harvesting 🤣

[knotty vine]

some of those people are likely to be innocent

[sudden hollow]

I dont think Bob, devourer of infants was innocent

[knotty vine]

yeah but jermy kyle and gooby were you monster

[sudden hollow]

Lol as the fm i literally decide who lives and dies

Dm*. Have i mentioned i hate autocorrect

[hollow stone]

fungeon master :)

[rugged hawk]

I mean, it's not entirely odd. My warlock was effectively 'adopted' by an undead black dragon when she fell into its lair. Dragon saved her life by testing an alchemical concoction on her, then forced her to serve as his experimental test subject. She eventually became interested in his experiments, became his apprentice, and made him her Patron.

[knotty vine]

fungeon master

[sudden hollow]

Okay yall win

[knotty vine]

the dm is a spores druid

[undone rain]

Kelemvor sure is an interesting diety hm?

[sudden hollow]

I will now use that as my moniker

Even though my campaigns arent normally... "fun"

[knotty vine]

your telling me that the law of the land is absoutely perfect and never ever ever kills a few innocents?

[sudden hollow]

Well when zone of truth exists?

[rugged hawk]

Ackshually, the dice decide all fates /s

[fast topaz]

ok i'm loving my Beyond releases. but someone needs to get with the IT dudes and marketing on a couple things....1.) idk but consider the 15th to be Mid-march not early March lol . 2) for both March Changelog updates noone in the approval chain caught a glaring date error . seriously though i'm loving working on some Beyond Monster HUnts fro Heliana's and anxiously waiting the "Late March" release of Saddlebag but i guess Late March will be April1st? jk

[knotty vine]

think you outta reread zone of truth

[sudden hollow]

I decide the dc

[undone rain]

Is kelemvor like a better myrkul lol

[rugged hawk]

Still overruled by nat 20s

[knotty vine]

You create a magical zone that guards against deception in a 15-foot-radius sphere centered on a point of your choice within range. Until the spell ends, a creature that enters the spell’s area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there must make a Charisma saving throw. On a failed save, a creature can’t speak a deliberate lie while in the radius. You know whether each creature succeeds or fails on its saving throw.
An affected creature is aware of the spell and can thus avoid answering questions to which it would normally respond with a lie. Such a creature can be evasive in its answers as long as it remains within the boundaries of the truth.

[sudden hollow]

Yeah

[knotty vine]

the creautre just cant tell a willing lie

[sudden hollow]

Have fun with a dc50 zone of truth at disadvantage

[sudden hollow]

Which means...they cant lie

[knotty vine]

dc 50 aint even possible and they can just not speak

[fast topaz]

its only a lie of your character believes its a lie...

[knotty vine]

that too

[sudden hollow]

Which means they are guilty

[glad arch]

Thats not how that works

[knotty vine]

thats not how that works at all 😭

[sudden hollow]

It is for me

[knotty vine]

no wonder your games aint fun

[glad arch]

Though the dc of zone of truth is largely irrelevant as anyone that doesnt auto pass it will fail sooner or later

[knotty vine]

ZoT being an automatic lie detecter

[sudden hollow]

I love grim dark too much

[knotty vine]

with the DC being 50 somehow

which isnt possbile in any version of dnd

[sudden hollow]

It is entirely possible

[glad arch]

Im sure you could find some build that lets you roll a 50 on something

Probably not a charisma save though

[knotty vine]

the max that a creautre can have in any stat is 30

unless you homebrew it

[fast topaz]

but say for example i believe with all my heart the world isn't flat in D&D....if i say it's round does that make me a liar?

[glad arch]

Its telling a knowing lie

[knotty vine]

no because you belive truely that the world is flat then itll come out as true

[rugged hawk]

Let's just agree that Plague doesn't care about ZoT's written instructions and move on.

[glad arch]

Exact wording 'a deliberate lie'

[hollow stone]

isn't flat

[sudden hollow]

Not a creature. A literal avatar of the goddess of justice. Artifact that literally just creates the zone of absolute truth

[glad arch]

Yes but xaleb can be saved

[knotty vine]

homebrew i stopped listening ages ago

[sudden hollow]

Well ain't you fun

[knotty vine]

even the avatars of gods tiamat and bahamut are capped at 30

[sudden hollow]

Though not listening sounds familiar

[rugged hawk]

ain't you fun
Guy who actively appears to hate fun

[fast topaz]

i love dropping in here at times like this. makes the evening enjoyable. seeign fun debates where noone gets too serious

[glad arch]

Discussions get pointless when any point you can make gets 'countered' by homebrew stuff

[knotty vine]

DC 50 zone of truth actively ignore the rules of the spell and im no fun???

[rugged hawk]

Good suggestion: ignore and move on?

[knotty vine]

wild take but ok

[sudden hollow]

Its the entire premise the kingdom is built upon. So yeah its the same as saying magic doesnt exist so your spell misses

Its a world level artifact the whole point is no mortal will overcome it

[severe fox]

holy bad take after back take

[fossil hollow]

what the hell is happening

[knotty vine]

scroll up and you will understand

[fossil hollow]

im eating, got no time to scroll

[sudden hollow]

They arent happy I have a kingdom that uses an artifact that casts an unavoidable zone of truth to decide guilt

[rugged hawk]

Nothing important, let's discuss alignment again. I still say Bhaal should be Chaotic Stupid, not Chaotic Evil, simply because he shoots himself in the foot too many times to be anything else.

[fossil hollow]

oratrice mechanique denalise?

[knotty vine]

zone of unavoidable truth

[rugged hawk]

Insert dancing bard

[fossil hollow]

ill bring the guillotine

[sudden hollow]

Didn't know that was a thing but cool comparison

[knotty vine]

homebrew is the bane of my existent sometimes

[sudden hollow]

Absolute truth, but same thing

[fossil hollow]

i dont see the issue with an artifact of all things having an unavoidable zone of truth

[rugged hawk]

It's almost like we have a whole channel for #homebrew or something

[glad arch]

-# not how it works RAW btw, nat 20 only do something extra on attack rolls

[fossil hollow]

and death saves

[hidden spindle]

Bhaal... that reminds me that Scion of the Three Rogue could've been better

[glad arch]

Fair enough

[knotty vine]

Curse bhaal

[crimson gulch]

I love it so far, the rogue in my calimport game has been rocking it

[sudden hollow]

Im mixed on it. Like yeah a nat twenty to jump 10 feet higher than normal? Sure. Jump over the entire mountain? No

[rugged hawk]

Most of D&D could've been better, but I'm of the opinion we'll never get a 'perfect/balanced' D&D release because WotC would never sell another rulebook once they did.

[knotty vine]

jumping in dnd is still useless

[sudden hollow]

They didnt see it feesable that my kingdom doesnt execute innocents

[knotty vine]

the jump spell did get buffed through

[sudden hollow]

Not in the slightest. Saved pur asses a few times

[rugged hawk]

Depends on situation and modifiers, really.

[glad arch]

Player: 'what do i need to jumo over the mountain'
Dm:'you might be strong but youre still human, nothing will'

[knotty vine]

yeah i didnt until mr "Zone of absolute truth" showed its face

[glad arch]

Theres no rolls in impossible stuff

[sudden hollow]

They can roll, makes a funny fail

[rugged hawk]

DM's wrong, you can jump the mountain with a Cloak of Flying

[fossil hollow]

thats flight

[glad arch]

Wouldnt you be flying the mountain?

[sudden hollow]

I have had a character do similar

[knotty vine]

even with a 20 in strenth the max you can jump is like..20 feet horizontally or 8 feet vertically

[glad arch]

Flying over a mountain is fine

[rugged hawk]

Flight is just extended jump with directional control

[sudden hollow]

THAT IS BASICALLY EHAT THEY SAID

[fossil hollow]

right, and im falling with style

[glad arch]

Good news, that wont kill you

[fossil hollow]

am i showing my unc status....

[glad arch]

If falling in style is unc idk wtf i am

[knotty vine]

i still hate that VF tielfing gets 30ft of flying speed with medium armor

[rugged hawk]

Tell that to my splattered corpse deep in the Underdark at the bottom of a miles-deep chasm.

[fossil hollow]

-# nobody got the toy story refernce sob

[knotty vine]

i did

[severe fox]

i did

[glad arch]

It wasnt the falling in style that killed you

[rugged hawk]

I did, I just ignored it.

[glad arch]

It was only when you touched the ground you got hurt

[knotty vine]

i will forever glaze meta magic ngl

[sudden hollow]

I let the barbarian do a strength saving throw to reduce fall damage. . He punched the ground to lesson the fall. Rolled a nat 20 so I said sure halve the damage🤣 rule of cool is absolute sometimes

[fast topaz]

what if you homebrew a pair of Firey Pants of Persuasion giving yourself a 50' field of antimagic and advantage on Persuasion? lol

[glad arch]

Subtle spell my beloved

[rugged hawk]

Ackshually, it was when I chose the option to leap without having Feather Fall that my HP hit zero and the death cutscene triggered.

[sudden hollow]

I.... can I steal that cause that is hilarious

[glad arch]

That sounds like it was doomed from the start lol

[fast topaz]

of course lol homebrew is anyones game

[knotty vine]

thats a legendary tier item

[tawny gate]

can someone practice a wizard duel with me? I have a fight in my campaign between two 9th level spellcasters, and I need the disadvantaged one to win somehow. Both wizards have all the spells (even non wizard spells) and 6 9th level spell slots, among others, and 2 reactions per turn, as well as the ability to cast spells as legendary actions. One wizard casted Time Stop, the other has the ability to move through Time Stop, and so they are duking it out in Time Stop. The one who casted Time Stop can not effect the other wizard without ending the spell because of the rules of Time Stop, and his goal is to retrieve the MacGuffin off of the other wizard, and make it out alive. Ive written myself in a corner here, and I really the disadvantaged wizard to win.

[knotty vine]

your gonna lose

nuff said

[fossil hollow]

are you the dm, and are any of these players

[tawny gate]

im so aware im just trying to make it a believable victory despite the restrictions. I am the DM for both characters.

[fossil hollow]

then you say who wins

counterspell counterspell

[glad arch]

Dm for, both?

[fast topaz]

and if you're torn on who to call winner ..that's what a d100 is for

[feral fulcrum]

Counter-counter-counterspell

[tawny gate]

yes im aware im the end all be all, but my players are the type of players to be like "why didnt he do XYZ? railroad! railroad!"

[feral fulcrum]

Begun the Counterspell wars have.

[rugged hawk]

Not as doomed as the elf who once was told by a DM that we see a 'rotted old vine' near a chasm edge when we were wanting to get across. Elf immediately goes "I roll DEX and swing across," before DM can continue. Instantly falls into river far below as the rotted vine snaps. DM: "....I didn't say it was a DEX roll...."

[paper portal]

hi teamoth

[knotty vine]

my only question is how do they move during time stop

[tawny gate]

the one moving is the Goddess of Magic in my world

felt like it was appropiate for her to be able to move

[glad arch]

Atleast they fell in the rivee

[rugged hawk]

Ah yes, the river full of undead fish that drops you off miles downstream

[knotty vine]

then just let them fight it out

[fast topaz]

i would have then added cold damage...player didn't check that it was a glacier fed river

[glad arch]

... still better then concrete

[feral fulcrum]

That's extremely poor behavior

[tawny gate]

i mean thats what im doing but the other one is going to lose, and honestly i cant afford to have him lose it really messes with the rest of the campaign, i honestly shouldnt have let it come to this

[sudden hollow]

....turn the river into holy water

[knotty vine]

also counter spell is kinda bad

[rugged hawk]

By the elf? Yes. It was a ROTTED OLD VINE, what tf did he think was gonna happen?

[fast topaz]

create a conflict they have tostop and fight - bring in the next encounter.

[knotty vine]

in 2024

[sudden hollow]

I literally never used it as a player

[glad arch]

-player didnt fully listen to the dm
-player suffered the consequences of their action
Problem solved imo, im sure next time theyll let them finish

[sudden hollow]

Thats not a suprise

[feral fulcrum]

Yeah, don't pronounce you're going to do X, not bother to wait for DM input, and immediately roll something.

[knotty vine]

in 2014 it was a decent spell if you wanted to stop something but now its a con save instead of a check

[sudden hollow]

Can you at least still outlevel it?

[knotty vine]

the main thing that gets me about counter spell is it also no longer counters spells below 3rd level

[sudden hollow]

This is why im letting my players choose between edition

[glad arch]

As in not at all or no guaranteed succes?

[sudden hollow]

Im splitting it into traditional and modern styles

They have to announce when taking the spell what version they are learning

[knotty vine]

not at all the creautre still has to roll a save

You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell. The creature makes a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the spell dissipates with no effect, and the action, Bonus Action, or Reaction used to cast it is wasted. If that spell was cast with a spell slot, the slot isn’t expended.

[sudden hollow]

ISNT?

Now that sucks

[knotty vine]

nope

[sudden hollow]

Yeah ill use a spellslot to make my enemy preserve theirs

[knotty vine]

through not sure how that works if the creature cast it with the 1 a day spell instead of a spell slot

[dark pewter]

New Counterspell is way better for players now, especially considering that 2024 monsters don't use spell slots anymore

[knotty vine]

yeah that

[dark pewter]

(Unless there are some rare ones that still do)

[viral kraken]

that's not a spell slot, so they don't get it back

[knotty vine]

thought so

[sudden hollow]

Okay thats better to hear at least

Still dont like it

[knotty vine]

but most creatures like that just have LR to get past it

[dark pewter]

So players getting Counterspelled feels way better to be on the receiving end, but it's still just as effective against monsters

[fossil hollow]

i still love the hype that 2014 counterspell gets, especially with upcasted spells

[sudden hollow]

Since a lot of my casters are characters

[rough basalt]

I love counterspelling players

[sudden hollow]

I counterspell revivify

[knotty vine]

i mean being able to shut down 9th level spells with a 3rd level spell slot with only a spell casting mod of 19 is pretty nice

[rough basalt]

I counterspelled the same Bards healing word 3 times

[knotty vine]

this is why you always take subtle spell

[rough basalt]

Mainly cause he was the only caster in counterspelling range

And why would the Undead archmage let him heal the downed guy that easily.

[knotty vine]

this is why i mess with sorcerers so heavy

[sudden hollow]

I did not know subtle spell couldn't be countered

[knotty vine]

mainly cause they get more bang for there buck with meta magic now as well

[knotty vine]

you remove the VSM parts of a spell

[rough basalt]

Yep.
If there's no components then you can't tell they casted a spell until it happens

[knotty vine]

so theres nothing to counter

[sudden hollow]

Ah ig thay makes sense. Kinda

I never ran counterspells as a shutdown before they cast it. I always ran it as a counter spell

The counter the spell you have cast

[knotty vine]

Casting Time: 1 reaction, which you take when you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell

[sudden hollow]

Yeah id wager im gonna notice a fireball heading towards me

[rough basalt]

Well, that's a misconception.

[knotty vine]

but not the person casting it

[rough basalt]

Fireball isn't a ball until it explodes

[knotty vine]

also fire ball just appears

[rough basalt]

In the middle of casting its a bright red flash

[knotty vine]

then it blooms into a roar of fire

[sudden hollow]

Damn, I always had players describe themselves as throwing the ball of fire lol

[rough basalt]

BG3 makes it a giant ball of fire cause that's more fun

[knotty vine]

true

[sudden hollow]

Thats how I've always run it

[potent vector]

Ehhh, in 2024 it's split. Some monster cast without a slot, others specify they cast with a slot

[sudden hollow]

Otherwise you are casting fire ball, your casting ied

[knotty vine]

A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose within range and then blossoms with a low roar into an explosion of flame

[potent vector]

Ack, didn't reply

[rough basalt]

That parts ultimately flavor anyways.
Whether it's how it actually looks or big ball, still same spell

[knotty vine]

its why fire ball isnt a to hit spell

[sudden hollow]

No? Its a save because its an aoe. Delivery doesnt matter

[fossil hollow]

there are single target save spells

[sudden hollow]

Those I hate more than anything

[knotty vine]

yeah..

[sudden hollow]

With my fail rate (as in the enemy succeeding my save) id like as many chances to deal damage as I can

[knotty vine]

i still think meta magic is one of the strongest abilites outside of subclasses in dnd

[fossil hollow]

spellcasting

[sudden hollow]

I like distant spell

Its beautiful

[potent vector]

You don't, you RAW notice somebody doing the hand motions or hear them making the chanting to cast Fireball.

[knotty vine]

thats why subtle spell is so much fun

[sudden hollow]

Again never seen it played that way before. Its always been caster hurts big explodey ball of fire

Hurls

[knotty vine]

i could cast fire ball and nobody would know it was me

[viral kraken]

wouldn't the streak shooting from your hand as part of the spell effect be a bit of a giveaway?

[sudden hollow]

Distant spell cure wounds

[knotty vine]

subtle remove all components

[sudden hollow]

Thats not a component tho

[knotty vine]

that would fall under somatic

[viral kraken]

ya but not effects, they would still "know it was me"

[sudden hollow]

No thats the spell itself. Thats like saying subtle spell removes the wall of fire but leaves the damage for wall of fire

[knotty vine]

thats.. not what im saying at all

also you could just hide your hand behind your back since its only a "streak"

[sudden hollow]

I think the streak is meant to be its travel...so yiu would fireball..yourself