dnd-discussion

[tall forge]

Still falling into the stats suck issue

Again, if you wanna do this, go ahead

Youre character just will be below average in damage

[hollow hedge]

Which I'm assuming is common for those who play starting at lvl 1

[tall forge]

No, most characters wont have the issue youll be having

[hollow hedge]

Common for monks?

[tall forge]

Monk has great early game actually

Stunning strike is huge

You just lose that benefit by dipping into barbarian

[fair plinth]

500 unarmed strikes

[tall forge]

You lose Ki points, which means less flurry of blows

And you add STR to your MAD issue, meaning your wisdom or your dex or your con suffers from it

Maybe a subclass might help? Idk the subclasses of 2024 monk

[jovial shadow]

The Monk is pretty weak early on. You don't get Stunning strike until fifth level

[hollow hedge]

But then again I get back to my main point. How else do I get those same coolio points?

[tall forge]

Im just telling you whats gonna happen

[jovial shadow]

Not that stunning strike is a game changer anyway

[tall forge]

Disagree

Being able to attack 3 times is pretty great

[fair plinth]

There arent really any true barbarian monk subclasses but way of open hand is pretty close

[tall forge]

I figured open hand would be the best one

Just a boring answer unfort

[fair plinth]

Yep

[tall forge]

Heck, level 1 being able to attack twice is pretty good

[jovial shadow]

Three strikes early uses up your FP quickly and you are still pretty fragile as HP is concerned

[hollow hedge]

Btw do I add the bludgeoning damage every single hit or once per action/bonus action

[fickle heart]

Are we talking 5.24 Monk? If so, it's the opposite of fragile lol

[tall forge]

What are you adding bludgeoning damage to

[hollow hedge]

Doesn't the dex modifier add bludgeoning damage?

[tall forge]

It adds weapon damage, so it would with an unarmored strike

[hollow hedge]

Yeah and the weapon damage for unarmed strike is bludgeoning

[tall forge]

Combat goes for a monk
Attack roll (d20 + prof + dex or str)

Damage roll (d6 for unarmed strikes +dex or str)

[halcyon forum]

elements monk is the best (and most fun) 4e24 monk subclass imo

but non of them are bad

[tall forge]

Did they make elements monk not bad?

[halcyon forum]

yes, the new elements monk is really good

[humble cairn]

I feel like mechanically no, and even for funsies all it would do is make you less effective overall, which I personally don't find to help with the fun?

[humble cairn]

Elements '24 is really fun and awesome. It is also basically an entirely different subclass.

[tall forge]

Worth is up to what you value

Do you value contributing to the fight, or do you value the roleplay in this scenario

[stoic haven]

Which one? 2014 or 2024

[tall forge]

This makes me so incredibly happy

[stoic haven]

RP doesnt need mechanical benefits

[halcyon forum]

yeah new elements monk has little to do mechanically with old four elements monk

[tall forge]

Too bad im playing a sorcerer in the 2024 campaign i managed to join:(

[stoic haven]

Isn't there a part in the DMG or PHB on good RP vs mechanical RP?

With inspiration

[hollow hedge]

Ehh I just really wanted a way for some sort of super saiyan ability or self enhancement 'cause I thought it'd be cool

[humble cairn]

Multiclassing mechanics doesn't really contribute to roleplay.

[humble cairn]

You want to play a Super Saiyan Monk, you say?

[hollow hedge]

Yeah

[stoic haven]

Super Saiyan monk (Astral Self imo)

[humble cairn]

Why not play Elements Monk, then? Because you get a way to spend Focus to enhance yourself with a flaring of elemental energy around you.

[humble cairn]

I mean .. Sun Soul is also kinda right on the nose.

[feral fulcrum]

Elements monk in 2024 is basically just a weaker Avatar (From, well, Avatar, take your pick of Last airbender, or Legend of Korra)

[tall forge]

Or sun soul monk, if you’re ok with being kinda mid

But absolutely super cool

Heck, make yourself an aasimar

[stoic haven]

Yea, that works

[tall forge]

You even get flight with it

[hollow hedge]

I'd have to homebrew and balance things out if I want to get the effect I want from it

[humble cairn]

About 80% of the character concepts proposed in this channel work better as monoclass, as this one does as well.

[feral fulcrum]

Shadow Monk still kind of sucks though.

[humble cairn]

What specific thing do you want?

[stoic haven]

Lots of Monks better monoclassed

[halcyon forum]

its not as strong as in 2014 due to the PWT nerf, but its still very good

[jovial shadow]

Warrior of Shadow is awesome.

[tall forge]

Honestly, id argue monoclass is the solution to 95% of builds for rp
You can minmax multiclass but thats case by case

Flavor goes so far

[severe rampart]

am I the only one that does not put a last name for any of their characters?

[hollow hedge]

Something akin to barbarians rage but uses either str or dex.

[tall forge]

And people get stuck on the idea of mechanically it needs to work perfectly

[feral fulcrum]

Yeah, it's not awful. But it definitely feels like "Congrats, all you do is Cast Darkness and occasionally teleport. You hate daytime, and only get super interesting at level 17."

[tall forge]

Aasimar

[humble cairn]

This is not very specific and thus would probably just be flavor, no homebrew necessary.

[hollow hedge]

Doesn't that like, cost a big chunk of money?

[tall forge]

Huh

Its a dnd race

[humble cairn]

Do you not own the PHB?

[halcyon forum]

thats just wrong though. both the darkness and the teleports are good the way they work in 2024 and easy/often usable

[humble cairn]

Anyway I have to go to bed, chat take it away,

[hollow hedge]

Reflavoring?

[jovial shadow]

If you never played it, then your assesment is way off. I can say first hand that Warrior of Shadow is awesome long before 17th level

I've played it as high as 16th level

[hollow hedge]

Oh, thought you were naming a subclass-

[tall forge]

Its when you change the “flavor” or description of something to fit

I cast my eldritch blast as globs of acid i spit at you

[hollow hedge]

Oh- I could talk to the DM when the time comes.

[feral fulcrum]

If you like it, good for you. But I think it could have been more interesting if Shadows did a little more then then Darkness and "Your teleport gets better" until lvl 17.

[serene jolt]

Yeah I get that. I just need a ranged character for this campaign because everyone else is front line and it's getting crowded. XD

So I have the build plan for a +1 repeating pistol with true strike for extra kabooms.

[halcyon forum]

Its not about liking stuff. the mechanics are solid, objectively.

you might find them boring and that is fine

[serene jolt]

So booming blade isn't really my go-to for this one.

[feral fulcrum]

I don't think the mechanics are trash. I just think the playstyle gets boring because it doesn't really change or get shaken up until lvl 17.

And that makes the whole subclass pretty meh IMO.

[serene jolt]

And for a character that doesn't get a second attack (Maverick Artificer), I think 1d10+int+int + 1d6 radiant isn't bad for resource-free damage at level 5.

[halcyon forum]

I mean i think think "boring" is just so subjective. some people find barbarians mind numbing while other just feed on the big numbers

[barren panther]

All Classes are Beautiful

[feral fulcrum]

Except Mystic

[jovial shadow]

Declaring something boring, you never played is sus

[serene jolt]

This! I find barbarian to be so incredibly boring. I had to play just barbarian for a month straight and I started feeling like DnD was a job 🤣

[barren panther]

barbarians are fun for me mostly because I like RPing a big galoot, lol

[hollow stone]

barbarian is such a weird class to me tbh, like they're STR based but the only STR class that can't use Heavy Armor

[halcyon forum]

meanwhile, I love barbarians. huge numbers goo brrrr

[barren panther]

clunky armor getting in the way of rippling muscles idk

[feral fulcrum]

Barbarian is really the only Strength Class. Paladin and Fighter can always just go Dex. Barb is the only one with STR needed features.

[serene jolt]

I'm not against roleplaying a big, intimidating character or a bit of a dum dum. It's pretty fun. I have a mind boggling dumb ranger who is wise- but not intelligent.

Example: She told the party, fully confidently, to not worry about the giant that they needed to fight because it only eats men. Not women, not animals. Just men.

[hollow stone]

Heavy Armor is perfect for a barb tho, you ever seen Buhurt? it's a HEMA sport where everybody wears full plate and they basically just punch each other for like 40 minutes untile one of them gives up

[serene jolt]

And then I also have a huge war cleric with muscles and plate armor, even a cloak of billowing. She is scary.

I like playing tropes without having to connect them to their class.

[feral fulcrum]

Yes but these are Fantasy Barbarians, rippling pillars of barely clad muscles, weilding oversized axes and frothing at the mouth more often then not.

[hollow stone]

i actually did find a very funny tech where if you have TCE you can take the Eldritch Adept for Pact of The Blade and play a pure CHA Paladin

[feral fulcrum]

And have been that way for almost, if not longer, then I've been alive.

[barren panther]

You'd have to be pretty old to be older than Conan

[feral fulcrum]

I meant in D&D. Not as a Concept in general.

[tall forge]

The only class i hate is rogue

(2014, idk if 2024 changes has fixed my issues with it)

[barren panther]

I mean you said Fantasy Barbarians with a capital F, I could only assume you meant in general, haha

[tall forge]

But man. I feel so awful when i get up, roll to hit and!

Miss

[hollow stone]

yea but what's scarier than a hulking mass of metal that's just missing a jaw cover so the big one inside of it doesn't suffocate on their own frothing?

[hollow hedge]

How so?

[tall forge]

Multiple issues

[hollow hedge]

How?

[barren panther]

I do agree, missing with a rogue hurts more because of sneak attack making up for no Extra Attack

[feral fulcrum]

You can miss on any class, that's not a Rogue issue.

[tall forge]

Yet rogues the only class that can only attack a single time, or fail

[feral fulcrum]

Gestures at Dual Wielding

[tall forge]

So im forced to be a dual wielder now

[crimson gulch]

Nope, but It's very effective

[tall forge]

And use my bonus action to attack instead of any of the (1) rogue abilities

[serene jolt]

Dual wielding. In 2024, use nick or vex (for adv). Otherwise, you're just the same as any spell caster who uses cantrips.

[hollow stone]

i am quite fond of rogue. even if i miss, i just BA Disengage and scurry away like a scared little mouse

[serene jolt]

But if you hit, you hit very hard.

[crystal latch]

My main issue with rogue is that it's not really good at anything
Its damage potential is subpar even compared to most other martials
Its subclasses generally get the short end of the stick
Expertise is effectively a non-feature because the skill system was barely designed
And it doesn't even get a fighting style or medium armor proficiency

[feral fulcrum]

If you hate the way one thing feels when you play, you could try the thing of playing differently. Just a thought.

[tall forge]

Idk enough about 2024 to say, but 2014 it sucked

[serene jolt]

I think rogue is more leaning towards a roleplay class like ranger imo.

[tall forge]

Or… maybe I want to play the skulking rogue with a crossbow/archer build

[barren panther]

rogues are good skill monkeys though. I agree that for me they're less fun in combat

[serene jolt]

Like they excel in most roleplay situations. Like rangers.

[tall forge]

But man. I missed my single attack and now my turns over

[halcyon forum]

with vex weapons, getting constant advantage on a rogue is easier than ever

[tall forge]

Just doesnt feel fun to me, and thats just me 🤷

[serene jolt]

But combat is meh. It's fun if you're into the 'never get hit cuz I'm hiding' gameplay.

[crimson gulch]

Steady aim, hide, and so many other ways, sniper Rogues are great

[feral fulcrum]

Shrugs

[crystal latch]

Ranger is entirely capable of pulling its weight in and out of combat
Rogue is weak in combat and its out-of-combat applications are almost all exclusively DM fiat

[barren panther]

I will say, and this goes for monks with step of the wind too, being able to run all over the place is fun

[livid slate]

In what book is the warlock with the pet? Ive been told it's a new one but idk where it is

[halcyon forum]

it also means you can dual wield hand crossbows and vex chain to your hearts content

[serene jolt]

A ranged rogue is a horrific rogue. I struggle with them sometimes as a dm because they just never get targeted.

[livid slate]

Also whats the subclass name

[feral fulcrum]

They can all get pets via Find Familliar.

[livid slate]

But there's one that gets extra abilities with it no?

[delicate owl]

Rogue isnt a damage dealer, saying it having expertise isnt good cause skills arent good is definitely a campaign issue, reliable talent makes them essentially the best at skills, and their ability to avoid damage is only second to monk

[serene jolt]

And in 2024, the feature that allows you to never roll below 10+mod for skill checks? Holy frick that's awesome!

[delicate owl]

Im late 🙁

[livid slate]

Ive been told it gives cleric domain spells and can heal and stabilize and give resistances

[feral fulcrum]

That's Pact of the Chain, and something all Warlocks can take

[tall forge]

Thats my second problem- its the og ranger issue

Sometimes dms just dont understand what rogues need

[livid slate]

It's like a subclass that gives a pet, with said before buffs

[tall forge]

Which is the time to do rogue stuff

[crystal latch]

Which application of which skill makes that actually good though? Like, in 3.5 the Intimidate skill is "make a check against the target's modified level check and on a success XYZ thing happens", in 5e Intimidation is basically just "the DM makes stuff up I guess"

The same goes for the vast majority of 5e skills

[tall forge]

I was about to say

[serene jolt]

I mean tbf, OG Artificer was also super DM dependent.

[tall forge]

What skill isnt that, unless you have the healer(?)feat

[serene jolt]

Even now they are kind of DM dependent but not as bad as before. I only touched Artificer back then if I had a dm that is fun.

[tall forge]

Agreed

[crystal latch]

Stealth (hide, surprise), Perception (avoid surprise), Acrobatics/Athletics (grapples), Arcana (proficiency required for crafting magic items), Survival (tracking DCs in the DMG), also Medicine for stabilizing

[livid slate]

https://youtube.com/shorts/g-20HYwV8v0?si=8KGUlmMnp0-uYTmU
Whats the one this guy is talking about?

He talks about a warlock subclass that is better then ranger but doesn't really name it

[feral fulcrum]

I beleive you're mixing up Pact of the Chain which gives you a pet and stuff, and is available to all Warlocks as an Invocation in 2024, and Celestial Warlock, which has Cleric spells.

[livid slate]

Look at the video I sent

The guy says "new subclass that allows you to have a pet"

[feral fulcrum]

That's probably somewhere under UA, or it's random homebrew they found.

[halcyon forum]

I guess the wast majorty of DMs have no trouble to make skills matter in their games. its quite natural

[livid slate]

Your right yeah I found it,
Vestige

[tall forge]

Its a UA subclass

[tall forge]

Dont put too much stock into dnd shorts youtubers, they give a lot of misinformation or hide info

Its for engagement and clickbaitability

[livid slate]

Il take note of this

What is unearthed Arcana anyway, like I understand it's like test? But may I have more details

[crystal latch]

UA is playtest material

[feral fulcrum]

Yeah, I gotta agree with Peach here, Shorts are the Last place you should take any actual info from. Because it's Short-form engagement bait that incentivises click-bait over providing any meaningful discussion or info.

[tall forge]

Got a cool new idea but no idea if its op or incredibly weak? UA it goes

[crystal latch]

Many things were way cooler in their UA versions

[livid slate]

Oh interesting

[crystal latch]

Special mention to the one time we got a barbarian UA that was so good it had a place in highop starting at level 6

[jolly hound]

I can’t decide what kind of monk I want to play in my next campaign 💔

[vast pelican]

Specifically, it's official material that's in development. Pretty much all character options go through UA playtesting before final publication.

[tall forge]

Wanna be goku? Sun soul

[crystal latch]

There's a pretty big fraction of the material that doesn't get released as UA first
UA stuff is first and foremost meant to keep online discussion of an upcoming product alive, so it will be intentionally overtuned or undertuned to give people something to talk about - I usually believe a final version is written not long before/after the UA version of the same thing

[delicate owl]

Yeah but rogue is so much easier to give satisfying moments to. Picking pockets, sneaking solo, opening x, even talking/remembering/seeing stuff if they have cha/int/wis.

Rogues are the skill people, bards are also that but magical and more reliable overall but not specialized

[tall forge]

I agree! The problem is those moment are technically dm dependent and i didnt have a great dm for rogue

I also made it worse bc i played assasin rogue

They were a new dm so i dont blame them

[burnt valley]

Bard is just Rogue if they weren't a Commoner and actually viable at high op

[crystal latch]

Assassin basically requires a druid or ranger to consistently give you surprise so your features work

[jovial shadow]

UA initially started in D&D 1e as presenting new material, items and things like Comeliness as a new stat and new subclasses like Barbarian and Cavalier. All from both Gary's own campaign and submissions in Dragon Magazine

[valid geyser]

Your dm to give you surprise*

[faint thicket]

Bards get expertise and half prof with all skills, while rogues just get expertise sooner and one more skill from a limited list

[tall forge]

Its very much your dm

Surprised doesnt have any rulings dnd 2014 on what it actually means

[lavish flame]

Watch a bunch of action movies and go Open Hand

[burnt valley]

Moon Knight https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1ACBpeGKZVTkLanr86EPOMtAKpwFz45KHuNT6hU1swRg/mobilebasic

[faint thicket]

Bards are better skill people in every way

[lavish flame]

In addition to this, it is also the name of a magical store in The Free City of Greyhawk in the Greyhawk setting!

[jovial shadow]

2014 or 2024?

[delicate owl]

Assassin rogue is hardddddd

[crystal latch]

Surprise does have rules though

[delicate owl]

That is a very rp dependent subclass

[barren panther]

still gotta fit the vibe of whatever character you're playing as though'

[jolly hound]

2024 the only one I’m not really interested in is four elements

[valid geyser]

Besides reliable talent

[faint thicket]

By then bards have spells and other features that make that feature kinda not worth it

[valid geyser]

Such as?

[crystal latch]

group makes Stealth checks
compare lowest check on attacker side to passive Perception of other side
enemies with lower Perception are surprised
surprised creature does not take reactions before taking a turn
surprised creature does not act on its first turn

[faint thicket]

Pass without a trace and conjure chwingas immediately come to mind

[valid geyser]

“The DM determines who might be surprised”

[faint thicket]

Read the full passage

[crystal latch]

Yes, this means that the DM checks passive Perception because it's the DM who presumably has the monster statblocks open

"It's your job to do this, here's how" =/= "you may arbitrarily decide not to do this"

[burnt valley]

Statblock memorization is based

[solar nebula]

if all players and the dm are playing dnd for the first time, is it gonna be bad

[faint thicket]

"The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter."

[barren panther]

only if you're not having fun

[feral fulcrum]

The Magic Eight Ball says Signs Points To Yes. Everyone being new to everything does lead to many teething issues on everyones part, but that's how one learns.

[solar nebula]

i mean were all good friends so im pretty sure were gonna have fun, and thats the whole point soo

[barren panther]

there you go

[burnt valley]

This sentence only needs 6 passive perception to read btw

[solar nebula]

unfortunately we do not know anyone who played dnd before irl so ):

[barren panther]

a session never runs perfectly, even with an experienced DM, just have a good time with your friends 😄

as long as you're all wiling to be patient with each other it'll be a great time

[jovial shadow]

It's called Warrior of the Elements now. Not my cup of tea, but I have seen at least the UA version in action. Treantmonk and his compadres did a one shot testing with some UA subclasses and he pretty much, no he did, save the entire party.

[solar nebula]

i guess we will see. although 3/4 people in the party have a 3d printer, so um..

[small heath]

Question for DMs: How flexible are you with your players? For example, let's say in combat a player forgots to do some special add-on or condition to a target, but their turn already ended and it's the next turn. Do you allow them to still apply it, or are you the "nope, your turn ended. you have to wait" type?

[faint thicket]

depends on how long its been

[jovial shadow]

Once, depending on the circumstance

[faint thicket]

and how hard it would be to add

[barren panther]

yeah if it's like a whole round or two later, sorry

[valid geyser]

Tangential but what is conjure chwingas from? Not a spell I’ve heard of

[hollow stone]

hey what book are the Reborn 2024 in?

[small heath]

Let's say it's a rogue sneak attack 2d6. They rolled the dice, landed the hit, ended their turn, but totally forgot to add on the 2d6.

[faint thicket]

Conjure minor elementals, summoning a monster called chwingas who have at will guidance

[burnt valley]

2014 cme

[faint thicket]

I would allow it because rogue needs all the damage it can get

[barren panther]

like I said if it's not like a whole round later, I'm usually pretty lenient

[crystal latch]

2014 CME was the best 4th-level spell in the game

[small heath]

I'm more so thinking the next person in the initiative order.

[burnt valley]

we love stacking guidance and free charms

[barren panther]

well it's always up to DM discretion but I'd allow it

[faint thicket]

Unironically I would let the rogue add his damage after 10 rounds

[feral fulcrum]

The Conjure Spells were as useful as the DM wanted them to be. As the DM always had final say on what was summoned. IIRC

[valid geyser]

I see

[small heath]

I am currently in campaigns that has both types so I'm wondering what's usually the norm. I respect any DMs decision, but me, only having a few months of experience at this point, am curious.

[valid geyser]

I think for cme it does say the player has the choice but they’re under the DMs control, but still taking orders

[faint thicket]

RAW not really, its not stated any where in the books and there is ways to force what you want anyways

[burnt valley]

Just let them insta kill any target that's behind their turns, they will be m*lee anyway

[jovial shadow]

Only Gods and godlike creatures can bless you with Charms per the 2024 DMG.

[faint thicket]

however SAC does say you don't pick but they never errated this into the book and so I take it with a grain of salt

[burnt valley]

how close to RAW is SAC

[crystal latch]

With CME even if you are using the cringe "player doesn't choose" ruling (ignore the fact that the system doesn't work if this precedent applies), chwingas are the only Tiny option of CR 1/4 or lower so you can just position yourself in a way that no space big enough for a larger creature exists within range

[faint thicket]

Me speedrunning to sigil to gain godhood for free

[feral fulcrum]

Though Shalt Not Mess With The Lady Of Pain.

[burnt valley]

Me when i gamble to become a God on a casino in sigil

[crystal latch]

If memory serves, gods can bestow blessings, whereas charms are available from "legendary creatures" and similar

[faint thicket]

Unfortunately RAW the Lady of Pain doesn't care that you can become a god in her domain by spinning a wheel

[feral fulcrum]

Legendary Super Celestial

[faint thicket]

yes this is canon

[crystal latch]

Regardless, CME being the best 4th-level spell in the game does not hinge on the chwingas granting any charm at all

[small heath]

what's CME?

[burnt valley]

Perks of winning the godhood prize on casino:

• Immunity to AMF

[crystal latch]

2014 Conjure Minor Elementals

[small heath]

Ah

[barren panther]

Coronal Mass ejection

[jovial shadow]

Yeah too many abbreviations

[burnt valley]

Yooo based

[valid geyser]

I have to wonder for chwingas. I’m curious if how the verbal conman thing works since chwingas understand no languages

[crystal latch]

Innate Spellcasting. The chwinga's innate spellcasting ability is Wisdom. It can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material or verbal components:
At will: druidcraft, guidance, pass without trace, resistance

Pass without Trace is a 2nd level spell that would make a good 9th in 5e
This is why you can get 8 summons that can cast it at will with a 4th level slot 🐻‍❄️

[barren panther]

Verbal Conman sounds like a Bard background

[faint thicket]

charlatan moment

[barren panther]

™

[jovial shadow]

Yep correct. I misremembered. Blessing are bestowed by Gods and godlike beings. Charms can be bestowed by powerful spirits, mythical creatures etc.

[burnt valley]

is there a way to reject blessings

incase i get one from M*stra

[barren panther]

be an elf

oh I read that as charms my bad

[hoary totem]

Hot take: barbs are more "nepo baby" than sorcs

[valid geyser]

I meant more the issuing verbal commands part of the spell. Is that a thing that requires shared language

[crystal latch]

Presumably not

[burnt valley]

True, they need copius amounts of magic items to be functional

[faint thicket]

agreed

[hoary totem]

Barbarians just get angry and they can do everything fighters do. Sorcerers are born with magic, but they still need to learn how to use it. Screw up a spell as a wizard, you failed an exam. Screw up as a sorcerer, there's a black hole or a tornado or an army of modrons and a pile of bodies on your hands.

[small heath]

Hey, my sorcerer is going through an identity crisis as we are wrapping up our campaign after a BBEG fight because he discovered he used to serve the BBEG but had his memories erased.

Of course, he learned this right before the BBEG died and doesn't know how to feel 😭

[valid geyser]

Yeah, presumably not. Just a weird thing that they didn’t specify your conjure creatures being able to actually understand you

[faint thicket]

I think RAW it doesn't matter if they understand the language or not, probably part of the magic if I had to guess. I think it makes since that early summoners add translation spells to their summons after dealing with the language barrier for so long lol

[barren panther]

One time I played a Wild Magic Sorc for a one shot, he was one of the ones born with it but didn't actually learn how to use it lol

[valid geyser]

I think that’s RAI not raw

[hoary totem]

Like sorcerers might have innate magic but they don't have it easier than wizards, their difficulties are just different. meanwhile barbarians can do everything fighters with years of training can do, by getting angry.

[faint thicket]

"It follows any verbal commands" Doesn't say that it needs to understand just that if follows them, which has some funny implications when it comes to distance and being able to actually hear you

[small heath]

facts

It took me a while to really enjoy my sorcerer character, because I always felt very limited on what I can actually do until I finally got my hands on a magic item.

[barren panther]

can they though? Especially like Battle Master maneuvers and stuff?

[faint thicket]

Also mfw barbarian is a magical tradition in the forgotten realms

[barren panther]

I've admittedly not played much barbarian and fighter outside of like BG3

[small heath]

Karlach my beloved ❤️

[crystal latch]

Karlach is unironically one of the most evil NPCs/PCs in BG3

[faint thicket]

Eating souls moment

[burnt valley]

What else did she do besides eating souls

I see, lets get rid of Karlach

[undone rain]

Shes so silly

[faint thicket]

Honestly feels like they wanted to do more with that plot point but didn't

[valid geyser]

i guess the rules on how languages work just arent really that existent. Or at least just held up by common sense

[faint thicket]

yeah that is a far compromise yeah

[barren panther]

I guess I never considered that because I never gave her any soul coins haha

[crystal latch]

Unironically eating souls is an evil act worthy of non-resisting Durge

[naive cedar]

Tbh Karlach isn’t as perfectly pure as people make her out to be

[small heath]

How is she as a character in the Faerun bundle?

[barren panther]

I don't think anyone in the game is, that's kinda the point

[valid geyser]

so i think if circling back to 2014 conjure spells. I can see from just a common sense standpoint that the creature has to understand commands to follow them, but also it's just a thing thatd break most conjure spells like animals otherwise (although speak with animals is a practically free ritual so idk)
It's just weird in that vagueness

[naive cedar]

And Shadowheart is straight up evil at first

[small heath]

(im asking this in preparation before we are asked to talk about this in #baldurs-gate-3-spoilers )

[naive cedar]

Does anyone else from BG3 show up in the faerun book?

[crystal latch]

Yes

[naive cedar]

I know astarion has his own book

[crystal latch]

In the art

[naive cedar]

Oh cool

[small heath]

Karlach, Minsc, Astarion (his own thing) that I know of

[naive cedar]

Minsc isn’t from BG3 specifically

[small heath]

Ah, didn't know that

[crystal latch]

There's art of Gortash too

[naive cedar]

He’s from the first two games lol

[faint thicket]

This is one of those 5e moments where you don't think too deeply into it because the rules aren't designed for it tbh

[small heath]

I never played the first 2 so when people talked about him and Jaheira I just didn't think of it

[naive cedar]

Did they make him a handsome young man or does he still look like a rejected Final Fantasy villain

[small heath]

Although I will say that the TV announcement got me thinking: "what's the canon ending?"

[valid geyser]

this is one of those things where it is kind of interesting to think about
like, i checked 2014 beast master, and its command thing says "Follows as best it can", but its also said to be a thing specifically trained for battle, so theres the idea that it might be trained to take commands?
Also stuff like skeletons and zombies understanding languages it knew in life to take necromancer commands, idk if i have point about this but its interesting

[small heath]

My personally theory is that the canon ending is everyone not getting what they initially desired when we first met them. (iykyk)

[naive cedar]

I hope the show stays in development purgatory

[crystal latch]

Same, I don't think it will turn out well, nor do I consider adding a definitive canon ending to be a good idea

[naive cedar]

I’m also not looking forward to the Internet discourse

[small heath]

at the very least, I pray they use the actual VAs for acting their own characters (if the VAs wanted to, which by many interviews i've seen, a lot of them would like that)

[undone rain]

We already got people calling the show woke

Like duhhh?

[naive cedar]

Bruh I feel really bad for whoever gets cast as Astarion

[small heath]

Better be Neil

He literally looks like Astarion irl

[naive cedar]

I’m pretty sure the characters were all based on their vas

[crystal latch]

5.5e Forgotten Realms lore changes generally make me wish for less content, not more

[valid geyser]

I did think some of the new stuff was okay

[naive cedar]

Gale’s va looks just like him

[small heath]

I know that they used mo-cap for a lot of the talking and dialogue

[naive cedar]

Same honestly

[barren panther]

Shadowheart and Karlach don't really look like their characters but it would still be cool if they just hired them all haha

[valid geyser]

I thought calimshan had some neat stuff, but I think there’s some weirdness with how they handled the new queen

[naive cedar]

Karlach’s va is like a foot shorter than Karlach lol

[small heath]

Tbh, I feel like Wyll's character would be the easiest to do makeup wise

it's basically redo the hair, add some devil horns, and put on an eye patch

[crystal latch]

The new books tend to gloss over/relativize a lot of the more evil stuff in the setting

[naive cedar]

Honestly I want more dnd related media thats original rather than just WOTC piggybacking off of nostalgia

[small heath]

Why can't we get a TV show like what LoL did with Arcana

[valid geyser]

I think she is a cool character, but she needed an actual introduction in like a book or something. And I think the fact that she’s fully benevolent and everyone seems to like on the surface is a little strange. Especially if this is only 10 years into her rule

[crystal nest]

Because Hasbro is cheap. Remember the Candy Land movie?

[crystal latch]

Circle magic being suddenly widespread makes no sense either

[naive cedar]

I’m also really not a fan of certain major lore changes but it might get into arguments so eh

[jovial shadow]

There's a BG3 streaming series in the works

[small heath]

My personal headcannon of why it's called Circle magic is because a group of spellcasters are unofficially called a "circle"

Think about it

[crystal latch]

Purple Dragon Knights did not need to have dragons, especially dragons of one of the rarer types which makes no sense logistically

[crystal nest]

& now they don't

[valid geyser]

I think it could’ve worked on paper, but they just don’t give us any potential conflicts for it

Like. The fact that enigmatic planar influenced true neutral dragons want political power could be a neat conspiracy thing but it’s not treated as such

[faint thicket]

Amethyst dragons working with the purple dragon would never work with the lore of the forgotten realms but for some reason its canon now

[crystal latch]

Unther's near-total annihilation of Tymanther is glossed over

[valid geyser]

That’s because the map artist just didn’t draw tymanther so they whipped up an explanation

[crystal nest]

It's almost like the game designers are allowed to ignore the book authors

[burnt valley]

Purple dragon?

[valid geyser]

Same with the new many arrow kingdom

[faint thicket]

dragons sorry

[burnt valley]

oh

[naive cedar]

Why are they writing in a universe they don’t know anything about

[valid geyser]

Who knew map artists had so much creative control

[crystal nest]

Because WotC inherited a bad contract from TSR regarding supreme canon power

[crystal latch]

It makes sense that there was a war of total annihilation, this is in character for Unther
The issue is that they glossed over it. Yeah, the dragonborn "scattered"... what happened, 5.5e?

[burnt valley]

work as a map artist to subtly retcon things

[valid geyser]

That’s basically what happened

[naive cedar]

Imagine just not doing something and lore getting bent based around it

[crystal latch]

The new FR maps also have border changes that imply factions annexed their allies' territory with no conflicts stated

[faint thicket]

Death would be a mercy compared to what the tanari can do

[crystal nest]

The second Ed Greenwood passes on, there's going t be a reckoning w/canon

[naive cedar]

Tbf this isn’t the first time forgotten realms has gotten screwed over by writers lol

and not even the most egregious

[valid geyser]

Greenwood never had much creative control with the realms

[faint thicket]

Im suddenly reminded of the 8 gigaton nuke that went off 100 years ago and was forgotten about, though I think that the writters did that too

[crystal nest]

He has supreme contiunity control thanks to a bad contract WotC inherited from TSR that's never been voided

[burnt valley]

Lol wth

[naive cedar]

? It’s his universe…

[small heath]

tbh I wonder what qualification you need and how to even get a position to be a writer for wotc content

[crystal latch]

Given game design/balance standards, math skills are probably not required anymore

[crystal nest]

& he's an old hack who refuses to adapt, similar to Salvatore

[naive cedar]

People complain about the retcons in BG3 but they aren’t even as bad as the retcons in the actual canon published books lol

[valid geyser]

I’m uh
Not sure about that
The rights to the setting are still hasbros but he is the primary consultant for that stuff

[burnt valley]

hold on wdym an 8 gigaton nuke went off in forgotten realms

[valid geyser]

And there are a lot of examples of Ed making compromises for the company, like adding the non European inspired continents

[faint thicket]

some nation teleported itself during the spell plague and caused an explosion so big it scorched like 200 radius miles of land and was felt over 2000 miles away. I did some terrible math and concluded it was an 8 gigaton nuke

[burnt valley]

DAMN

[crystal latch]

Halruaa iirc?

[faint thicket]

I believe so, the realms are insane that this was basically a foot note in history

[crystal nest]

I'm just tired of the idea that lore=law

[naive cedar]

tbf it’s not exactly a secret that writers are bad at math

I am a writer btw I say this from experience

[crystal nest]

I'm used to retcons in other franchises, for better & worse

[small heath]

I'm actually a recent grad with an English degree (paired with education), and I'm actually using my skills to help my DM with building story for a campaign

[faint thicket]

Also the Halruaa explosion's scorching was still there decades later

[small heath]

I love story telling and I'm using my skills to establish a homebrew I'm working on :3

[lavish flame]

There's a meme thats about the Trojan War that has the line "... and he felled 27 men at once before being whisked away by divine mist. The narrator didn't even mention him, thats how common shit like this is." This gives off the same energy.

[naive cedar]

I also have an English master’s degree and I’m very proud of you! 😄

[small heath]

Thanks!

[faint thicket]

Yep the realms are deranged and is probably in the top 10 worse places to live with how common this sort of mass devastation is

[small heath]

Speaking of which I'm currently applying for grad school. I'm aiming to submit it tonight, while finishing the "logic" behind how the magic tied to my homebrew character/species functions.

[naive cedar]

I hope you get it! Also, be prepared for a LOT of reading

[small heath]

oh I am, but I don't mind that. Right now I'm reading about lizardfolk and gnoll lore because those are the next 2 characters I plan to make in upcoming campaigns.

I want to make sure I get the character right before I play them.

[naive cedar]

Do the newer DND have good writing/editing at least

I haven’t actually read 2024 yet and tbh I don’t think I want to

[jovial shadow]

Ah graduate school. I had fun, but some of the people had to work with on our final project left much to be desired. I should have chosen the Thesis

[small heath]

I'm only 3 months in regarding experience and I love 2024

[burnt valley]

How would you guys try to remove M*stra from power and supplant her with a different, more competent candidate?

[small heath]

Don't date her.

[crystal latch]

Game design quality is still poor nowadays, lore quality is terrible recently

[naive cedar]

Spray her with a water bottle whenever she tries to date her chosen

[naive cedar]

Oh yeah I hear the more recent modules leave a lot to be desired

[small heath]

I haven't read much of the 2014 stuff so I have no idea what the context are.

[crystal latch]

Yeah, I don't recommend any module released after Candlekeep except to laugh at

[lavish flame]

I've been running and playing 2024 basically since release and its never felt easier to do

[small heath]

As a new player, 2024 clicks for me.

Well, "new" if you consider 3 months as "new".

[crystal latch]

2024 convinced me to abandon all faith in 2014 and switch to 3.5

[valid geyser]

It’s always good to learn new games

[crystal nest]

I tried a lot of the alternatives. I didn't have fun, despite trying my hardest.

Only Mutants & Masterminds & Toon made me feel not hollow

[lavish flame]

Idk, Dragon Delves has worked for me thus far and the microadventures in the Forgotten Realms are all really solid portable adventures. They haven't released a 2024 adventure book that isn't an anthology yet, so idk how longer adventures will play out.

I've never really thought any 5e modules were anything stellar, but they all have stuff worth stealing.

[naive cedar]

I mean the recent modules in general not specifically 2024. I know people seem to like the new anthology adventure books

[crystal nest]

I'm just tired of edition wars

Of trash-talking

[valid geyser]

I like a lot of other games, but I’ve mostly returned to d&d because it’s a decent game to play at an in person table
I have my issues but I think it impacts my fun that much

[small heath]

Frankly I really don't care between the different editions as long as the DM and the party make it worth in a manner that's fun and fair.

[crystal nest]

THIS

[valid geyser]

I don’t think 5e is better than other games. It’s got the easier entry barrie and it’s got enough stuff to keep my interest

[small heath]

I find 2024 easier and more comfortable than 2014 (in my experiences so far), but I am fine with both.

[naive cedar]

I will say that I think 5e is good and I’m not in a hurry to return to the older editions as someone who grew up with them

THAC0 shudders

[crystal latch]

I generally consider 5e and 5.5e to be the low point of D&D in terms of design quality. I wish the editions after 4th were not so quick to reject the strengths of their predecessors

[feral fulcrum]

THACO?

[small heath]

there's 5.5?

[lavish flame]

Oh, yeah Vecna Eve of Ruin isn't so hot, apparently Turn of Fortune's Wheel wasn't so great. I really like the Anthology books, I think thats where they shine. I heard positive things about Dragonlance Shadow of the Dragon Queen. Its a mixed bag, but their anthologies are goated

[feral fulcrum]

2024 DND, not 5.5.

[crystal latch]

5.5e is 2024

[valid geyser]

Seems like wotc has given up on full adventures

[faint thicket]

Fortune's wheel gives you infinite time and godhood in the same building

[small heath]

so 2014 = 5e
2024 = 5.5e

[feral fulcrum]

Except WOTC is very, very, very insistent that it's just 5e. Not 5.5, not 6E, not the Mambo #5

[naive cedar]

To hit armour class 0. Look it up if you’re curious

[crystal latch]

For marketing reasons

[crystal nest]

I think there's a LOT of hyperbole about that

[small heath]

But what about the little bit of monica in my life?

[crystal latch]

They don't want to accidentally alienate people used to the term "5e"

[lavish flame]

If I'm honest I don't think this is harmful nor tonally inconsistant with the setting so this doesn't quite sound bad to me.

[severe rampart]

Rolled my first nat 0 💔

[naive cedar]

Yeah it’s still 5e. Tbh I don’t think they’re going to release any more long adventures any time soon since everyone is still playing the ones released almodt a decade ago

[valid geyser]

We’ve only gotten anthologies since Eve of ruin

[feral fulcrum]

It's also not really changing any rules for the most part.

[naive cedar]

And the anthologies have been received pretty well

[valid geyser]

I don’t think there is an objective definition of a half edition. As long as ppl know what you’re talking about it’s fine

[small heath]

like to my knowledge, and correct me if I wrong, 2024 just corrects most of the weird stuff rule wise in 2014

[crystal latch]

2024 adds more weird stuff in general

[valid geyser]

I think it mostly adds positive stuff

[crystal nest]

I mean in terms of "adventure good/bad"

People act like anything they don't like is a calamity

[naive cedar]

Yeah the 2024 rules range from good changes to eh changes. Theyre not bad rules. It’s mainly the lore changes that irritate me

[lavish flame]

I don't think so tbh. Obviously with Infinite Staircase and Golden Vault and Dragon Delves they're doing more anthologies than ever, but I think they're still planning full adventure books.

[crystal nest]

You do NOT want my onions on 3.5

[crystal latch]

I generally think that 5e has been going downhill more or less since Tasha's and 2024 doubles down on the worst of its design changes

[feral fulcrum]

Base rules wise, yes. Clarrification. And some additions like Bastions, with the only major changes being bringing all the classes to the same leveling progression standard, and spells being slightly reworked from their 2014 versions.

[lavish flame]

They're all adventure books. I guess Anthologies are "Adventure Books" and books like Tomb of Annihilation are "Campaign Books"

[naive cedar]

And it’s not like you can’t just pick and choose what you like from 2014/2024

[valid geyser]

I’d be fine for wotc to prove me wrong any how. I just figure that they’ve gotten diminishing critical and financial returns for campaign books

[crystal nest]

No one has a consitent mwtric for that, only vibes & rumormongering

[naive cedar]

I’m pretty sure they’re embarrassed from how poorly received eve of ruin was

[lavish flame]

I hope they don't abandon the Campaign Book. I really liked the "Setting: The Adventure" books they were doing.

[valid geyser]

Also we’re just at an unprecedented time of wotc radio silence

[small heath]

This paid campaign I recently joined literally has an entire document of conditions for every class based on if it's 2014 or 2024, and we're open to use any.

[lavish flame]

agreed. where is this godforsaken 2026 roadmap

[feral fulcrum]

As long as they're not as half-baked...nay, quarter-baked as Spelljammer was.

[crystal nest]

I remember when people were complaining about too many releases a year. Now they're mad that's not the case?

[stark maple]

dnd has no suchthing

[crystal latch]

5e Spelljammer is just straight-up not the Spelljammer campaign setting

[feral fulcrum]

It's not even a setting really. It's a MOnster Splatbook more then anything.

[lavish flame]

I love Waterdeep and Baldur's Gate and the Icewind Dale. Their adventures are interesting, but their setting write-ups are much more fun to look through

[crystal latch]

Not even a ship of Theseus thing, it just doesn't contain the setting and isn't even set on the same plane

[naive cedar]

Spelljammer is funny because it used to be a joke in the DND community from what I understand

[valid geyser]

i think the issue is less about being accurate to the setting and instead just giving us actual content
5e spelljammer just, isnt a setting really

[crystal latch]

5e Spelljammer retcons out crystal spheres and states that spelljamming vessels travel through the Astral Plane

[stark maple]

dnd just kinda throws out books then leaves for another few months

[small heath]

The hard part for writing is the "buy in" from the target audience.

Why would anyone reading this invest their time to see how it progresses?

[small heath]

Tiamat still showing up as a spam account 😭 . Someone save them from the purgatory.

[valid geyser]

it's a highway to connect games to different canon worlds, with 3 road stops along the way

[crystal nest]

This is what we in other fandoms call a update. Lore can be updated. Or else the worst of Red Box Gygax would still be canon

[crystal latch]

It's not an update, it's throwing out everything but the name

This is the equivalent of Star Wars retconning itself to be set on a single planet and having no Force

[small heath]

Can someone explain "spelljammers" for me? I never heard of this before.

[crystal nest]

Sounds like you're a 3.5 supremacist

[naive cedar]

There’s a huge difference between updating something outdated and bad (like female characters getting a permanent -1 to strength) and changing a setting for no reason

[crystal latch]

Spelljammers are boatlike vehicles that travel through space between Material Plane worlds

[feral fulcrum]

As someone who likes 2E of Exalted, I'd buy whole books of "Here's an overview of exotic area of the world, with some vague possible plots, and fun weird cultural bits! Chapters for all the weird cities and peoples!" But 5E is Never going to get that indepth.

[crystal latch]

3.5e doesn't have Spelljammer, it's a 2e setting

[naive cedar]

Theyre using 3.5 as a buzzword lol

[undone rain]

Accidentally made my paladin the main character of our campaign😭😭

[small heath]

typical paladin

[naive cedar]

Tbf paladins have main character energy

[stark maple]

primitive

[valid geyser]

I think youre fundamentally confused on why d&d settings exist. It's not really meant to be media to consume. It's meant to provide a framework for building adventures and campaigns
that being said 5e spelljammer is bad because it's not really great at providing any real "adventures in space" as the box set proclaims

[lavish flame]

Spelljammer is a setting in D&D. It is a fantasy setting thats basically set in space. Groups of adventurers traverse Wildspace via Spelljamming Helms, aka Boats in Space. Its like Treasure Planet or Star Wars inspired fantasy.

[crystal nest]

2e Spelljammer had faults too

[naive cedar]

It should still follow the basic lore of the setting though

[small heath]

I just want to use an antimatter rifle as a lizardfolk ranger. Is that too hard to ask for?

[stark maple]

yes it is t

[small heath]

Gotcha.

[crystal latch]

I treat D&D settings as I would any other fictional world. It's primarily made for a specific game, but so are many other settings. A setting being retconned into the dirt and completely replaced in all but name is just... bruh

[feral fulcrum]

An Update doesn't gut and change an entire setting and Meta-physics to be completely different. An Update adds to existing materials. A Retcon wholesale sweeps things away with something that's completely different. There's a distinct difference between the two things.

[naive cedar]

Although correct me if I’m wrong but I was under the impression that Spelljammer was a laughingstock in the DND community back in the day

[undone rain]

Yeah but istg i did not mean to have such a cool oathbreaker arc and cool backstory

[valid geyser]

which I'm not arguing against, and in a basic sense it still kind of is. It's got spaceships and you fly around space, they just changed what "space" is and didnt provide much else of substance

[undone rain]

This is my first paladin lol

[crystal nest]

So you play female characters as having -1s. Because nothing changes

[barren panther]

The githyanki plot in bg3 is pretty spelljammer adjacent

[naive cedar]

Again, those are not comparable

[small heath]

ish'tik

[undone rain]

Ghaik

[grizzled lance]

I think your broken

[naive cedar]

Female characters having -1 is dumb and sexist and nobody liked it including most of the players back then. People actually like the Spelljammer setting

[undone rain]

What they had like -1 to stats or smth

[naive cedar]

I think lae’zel actually mentions Spelljammers yeah

[faint thicket]

Holy bad faith batman

[naive cedar]

They had -1 to strength

[feral fulcrum]

Don't argue from such disengenious positions man. It does both yourself, and everyone else, a great disservice.

[small heath]

There is a line where she does when you enter the creche

[grizzled lance]

-1 to strength

[undone rain]

Thats so dumb😭

[naive cedar]

Yeah snd when you talk to her about her home creche

[grizzled lance]

Dnd was extremely “racist” and “sexist” at one point believe it or not

[crystal nest]

See, this is why edition wars are stupid. They assume continuity is constant

[faint thicket]

It literally is though, the canon is still there

[idle oar]

Also note that edition wars are against server rules... 😉

[crystal latch]

Continuity should be constant when it's the continuity of the same fictional universe

[undone rain]

It makes sense why they would be strong they live in a world where goblin raids are common af and have more manual labor

[naive cedar]

It was so dumb because there was no -1 to male characters or anything to make up for it. It was just punishing uou for no reason

[small heath]

W mod.

[faint thicket]

Its not edition wars, its about canon

[naive cedar]

I mean this is the same world where the average person can lift 300 pounds lol

[crystal nest]

Canon LITERALLY reboots at the end of every edition

[undone rain]

Im not surprised its from the 70s

[grizzled lance]

Exactly

[crystal latch]

Canon continues from edition to edition

[delicate owl]

This.

[idle oar]

Cannon really doesn't matter except at your game table and as much as the group agrees and buys into it.

[faint thicket]

Where has this ever been stated

[crystal latch]

With errors, but there's a reason why the dates move forward in the Forgotten Realms when new lore happens

[naive cedar]

There’s a lot of other casually sexist things in the older editions but that was probably the most egregious one

[faint thicket]

we literally have history from 2e campaigns still canon in 5e

[delicate owl]

It has been stated by the devs that at least 5e canon is its own thing...

[undone rain]

Exactly. Like the women being strong in dnd literally makes sense lol

[grizzled lance]

I mean vecna has been decently consistent through dnd lore from 2e all the way to 5e

[undone rain]

Their stronger then me

[feral fulcrum]

There's...Alot of things in the older editions that would not fly today, and much more that would get side eyes.

[crystal latch]

5e happens after the Spellplague, which is 4e lore, which happens after 3.5e and so on

[faint thicket]

they completely changed his backstory in 5e though

[grizzled lance]

A person with -8 in strength in dnd can still lift 240 pound without having to make a save

[valid geyser]

when im playing or running a game of d&d, i dont really give that much of a shit about continuity. It's my game, I do what I want. I just want the setting to be able to give me ideas on stuff
If it's different from an earlier source, i can ignore it and use the earlier stuff.
The issue is more about the setting book not being adequate to hold campaigns in'

[undone rain]

Its just a gender it shouldnt have any nerfs at all. Dumb rules

Class? Fine. Gender? Pfft

[naive cedar]

Oh I know lol. I reread the old monster manual a few weeks ago and uh. Yikes.

[grizzled lance]

He didn’t have much of a back story to begin with besides being “big bad evil guy”

[small heath]

I'm actually interested now on the history of this. Can you share some examples?

[grizzled lance]

I think it’s nice they gave venca a boyfriend

[undone rain]

Which is very impressive gods

[faint thicket]

That is objectively wrong, he had a very defined backstory with multiple characters who all contribute to his rise

[naive cedar]

Off the top of my head; EVERY female monster is into charming people, vain, obsessed with (player character) men, or some combination of those three. That’s still somewhat there but it’s been toned down a lot

[grizzled lance]

I can’t remember any important names from vencan’s backstory in 2e

[small heath]

Huh

[naive cedar]

Vecna was just a flavour name for a magical item originally. I believe modules made him a more fleshed out villain

[crystal latch]

Kas, Iuz, the Dark Powers, the Serpent...

[crystal nest]

Y'all wouldn't survive in the Dynamite Entertainment fandom, with all of the retcons they do from WWII comics

[naive cedar]

Actually wait one exception was weretigers. They are mostly female but didnt have any weird sexist things from what I recall

[grizzled lance]

Yes and no kinda

[undone rain]

Good thing we arent then

[small heath]

Then you kind of have the opposite in the dynamic with Drow culture, right?

[feral fulcrum]

Yeah lots of casual sexism, casual racism, obvious...influences that leaked into things.

[naive cedar]

Drow culture is an entire can of worms

[crystal nest]

Let's not go there

[undone rain]

Im glad dnd has changed for the better for sure

[grizzled lance]

The drow are pretty cool

[faint thicket]

Vecna was the Son of Mazel, an Ur-Flan who was one of the last of her people and worshiped the serpent, she and vecna were part of the untouchable caste within the city they lived in and she delt with the dead bodies (she was also secretly a necromancer so it wasn't to bad). She wished for her son to become a great wizard who can get back at all the people in the city.

[naive cedar]

The monster manual didnt discuss drow really. It was modules that made them…like that

[crystal latch]

Vecna's lore was a pair of items in 1e
2e gave us modules with him as a villain
3.5e gave us more info on his cult and the Serpent
4e gave us one extra stronghold for him
5e made him a fodder boss who twiddles his thumbs and retconned his appearance

[void crown]

Anyone play with roll20?

[undone rain]

I believe the deep races in general are pretty cool ngl

[small heath]

I asked because I plan on playing as a Drow druid and I briefly read upon how their society works

[undone rain]

Like duergar

[grizzled lance]

Die Vecna Die is a great module

[void crown]

Curios if anyone knows if a player has a subscription if the dm can use the features when they are in the game?

[grizzled lance]

Has you fighting him when he’s at the peak of his power

[void crown]

For roll20 like if I have pro as a player can the dm use dymanic lights

[feral fulcrum]

No clue, you'd probably be btter off googling.

[grizzled lance]

Roll20 is to jank for me to use and I still don’t understand how people use it

[void crown]

Ok thank you

[naive cedar]

Myconids are also really cool

[faint thicket]

Venca has a lot of interesting things about him that was completely taken away in 5e

[grizzled lance]

Dndbeyond just had a cleaner lay out

[grizzled lance]

That’s why eye of vecna is hot cheeks

[undone rain]

I like those fellas their chill

[crystal nest]

Because he's from an earlier point in his timeline, & 3.5 =/=5e

[naive cedar]

BG3 really nailed them honestly

[void crown]

I just like the dynamic lighting being player side so each player can only see what their charater can see

[feral fulcrum]

It functions fine for maps. Don't get me wrong, there are better things Cough Foundry* Cough*

[grizzled lance]

It’s actually “early” then that before he lost his eye and hand

[faint thicket]

Where was this ever stated at all

[feral fulcrum]

But Roll20 works perfectly fine if you treat it like a Digital pen and paper map.

[undone rain]

Definetly. Glad to see em represented more

[faint thicket]

we literally have timelines of events from different editions

[void crown]

How much does foundry cost?

[crystal latch]

The 5e EoR module happens in 1491 DR and 1501 DR simultaneously

[grizzled lance]

It’s stated that the stat block provided is the vecna before “Kas” betrayal

[crystal nest]

A piece of Beyond material called the Vecna Dossier

[burnt valley]

fair since you also need to buy the damn books and forces you to manually add everything if you dont

[crystal latch]

EoR uses the same statblock and this is Vecna as of the present day

[faint thicket]

Im not talking about the stats, I am talking about his lore and its not a different timeline but a different point in history

[grizzled lance]

I don’t see why people say it’s better it’s exactly the same as dndbeyond

[feral fulcrum]

50$ for the Liscence, and I beleive a certain amount of players can play a game without paying, as long as the DM has the Liscence.

[void crown]

Ah ok

[crystal nest]

It says so in the Vecna Dossier.

& Vecna is one of the few beings capable of moving between continuities/editons

[burnt valley]

no idea here either

[grizzled lance]

That’s silly

[faint thicket]

I guess the entire forgotten realms is also one of those Few beings

[crystal nest]

PCs are the exception, not the rule

[grizzled lance]

I am the exception not the rule

[burnt valley]

I am the rule

[faint thicket]

Im talking about every single NPC in the realms

[grizzled lance]

Volo

[valid geyser]

i dont think its the dev's intent for you to change editions if you happen to time travel

[faint thicket]

Again im not talking about the game mechanics

[grizzled lance]

The accompanying stat block depicts Vecna in his archlich form prior to Kas’s betrayal. Because Vecna is said to have mastered magic allowing him to travel through time, he can appear in this form even on worlds where his severed hand and eye are already known artifacts.

[faint thicket]

yeah so its the same continuity just traveling time and crystal spheres

[grizzled lance]

That’s the most I kind find for “time travel”

[valid geyser]

and stuff like the spellplague probably doesnt matter to vecna because hes from greyhawk

[faint thicket]

except for the spellplague somehow destroying the world tree but we all ignore that

[grizzled lance]

It’s called the spell plague

[inner silo]

How can a person become a shadow sorcerer?

[grizzled lance]

Being born in the dark molded by it

[covert root]

Shadowfell.

[feral fulcrum]

Anyway you like, there's not an actual official method for Sorcerors.

[lavish flame]

we have 2 instances in adventures in 5e where we go into the past. One is an ending to an adventure, so I won't spoil, but the other is the inciting incident of Netheril's Fall. You still play a 5e character in both cases

[inner silo]

Like being in the shadowfell?

[faint thicket]

shadows are kinda an actual thing in dnd so being born within them like other said, unironically being a part of new netheril is likely to also give you it

[feral fulcrum]

Born funny, touched a funny object, sniffed the Shadowfell one too many times, stayed in one dingy corner of a shady tavern one too many times and become Edgelord.

[valid geyser]

the world tree was a retcon of the great wheel either way. And could be written to be an entirely theoreticaly way of describing the planes

[grizzled lance]

I prefer wild magics way where you can be expose to raw magic the same way in our world is exposed to uranium

[faint thicket]

I am aware, just that it is a physical thing that interacts with the norse gods and the apocalypse but it just kinda died and then was forgotten about and put back together (I am actually okay with 5e retconing it back because holy hell that was a mistake)

[inner silo]

I see. Alrighty, thanks for the help!

[crystal nest]

Floon Blaagmar jumping to Krynn would make me laugh, not going to lie.

The drunken fool wouldn't survive the constant wars

[valid geyser]

when i play in FR. I ignore most of the random world altering events like the spellplague and sundering and abeir. I just dont care for world events that exist to justify edition changes

[feral fulcrum]

Dragonlance is a weird setting.

[naive cedar]

ive never actually played in dragonlance tbh but a lot of people seem to love it

[faint thicket]

fair tbh

I honestly would probably ignore the spellplague too because... its a lot

too much for the setting to be alive honestly

[crystal nest]

The Dragonlance novels are EASILY the best DND novels. I just don't let them rule my games if Krynn comes up

[valid geyser]

its very much a fiction first setting. It cares more about the specific story it wants to tell rather than being a location where a multitude of adventures exist

[feral fulcrum]

It's an interesting Setting, but a weird one. The concept of a three-way open Mexican stand-off between Good, Evil, and Neutral Gods and Orders is bizarre.

[naive cedar]

yeah i know people really love the dragonlance books in particular but idk how good the actually setting is

[grizzled lance]

I wanna be chaotic evil

[crystal nest]

2 words:LORD SOTH

[valid geyser]

The hickmans made dragonlance to be the setting for heroic fantasy adventures like in an actual novel instead of just a dungeon crawl treasure collection simulator

[naive cedar]

Yeah back when dragonlance was created the overwhelming majority of dnd content, from what i can glean, was just "run around and kill stuff to get treasure in a vaguely fantasy setting" games. Forgotten realms didnt even really exist yet

[grizzled lance]

The realms when they are forgotten or something

Idk I forgot the lore

[naive cedar]

Like greyhawk was never a particularly fleshed out setting. Theres a castle and a city and a bunch of monsters. Go kill stuff

[crystal nest]

Lord Soth is not only the best sword & sorcery equivalent of Darth Vader-type supreme enforcers who used to be honorable warriors, he also ties to Ravenloft

[valid geyser]

old d&d had that wargame school of thought. Playing the game, finding treasure, and being surprised was of more value than telling a story.
It's not a bad thing, it is fun to do. However it's completely understandable that people want to play their fantasy roleplaying games to be like more things from the fantasy genre

[crystal nest]

Ravenloft as portrayed by the Hickmans, but still

[naive cedar]

Yeah thats what I meant. The worldbuilding in old DND was minimal at best. People like the Hickmans added to that

[crystal nest]

Lord Soth is a CERTIFIED BADASS

[naive cedar]

Also the fantasy genre as we know it now was still being developed when DND came out. A lot of the great more recent fantasy books were being written or hadnt been written yet

[valid geyser]

for sure. They got a lot of influence
I remember not really loving what I saw of dragonlance, but i cant deny how important they are to the game

[naive cedar]

i think its pretty telling that people seem to remember the dragonlance books more than the game tbh

[valid geyser]

I do love the ravenloft origin story of being dissapointed that a vampire was just a random encounter to be fought, and not a proper villain

[grizzled lance]

I wonder what’s the average life of an adventurer

Like how the average life of a hell diver is like 7 minutes ish what’s that in dnd terms

[naive cedar]

Omg yeah! Thats what I mean. In the Gygax/old DND school of thought, all these monstrous creatures basically existed as theme park rides taken from various speculative fiction and mythology sources.

[naive cedar]

not long im betting

[grizzled lance]

I wanna know how long each class has lived for

[serene jolt]

Depends on the setting. Depends on the adventurer. Depends on the species. I don't think it's class specific.

[rough basalt]

Not long

DnD 5e adventurers at least are the kinds of people who could become famous adventurers

[grizzled lance]

i wanna know in days

[rough basalt]

But most adventurers in world are like 1e adventurers

Get hit once and die.

[cobalt schooner]

I think it depends more on background than class.

People like clerics and paladins, soldiers, knights, etc. Would likely have a better shot at living longer due to training and support of an experienced organization.

Where as a street urchin wouldn't have the same shot at a linger life because they are most likely self trained. They don't have the privilege of being taught by people who have already lived the experiences.

[foggy marsh]

Hi I'm new to D&D any tips for my first game (I'm going to be a Game Master)?

[leaden marlin]

U starting DnD as a GM? Do you have a guide to use for your sessions?

[still plover]

• plot situations rather than stories
• have a random name list to hand
• start small, build as you need
• take notes
• stay hydrated
• do character creation in Session Zero
• don't forget safety tools

[leaden marlin]

Btw, what do you all think about a dwarf wizard? Is this or not an odd combination
Percy, the transmuted curse, has been my first and currently only PG in the campaign I’m a part of and I’m trying to make it as best as possible for combat and utility.

May I ask for suggestions if possible? I can leave my character document here.

[still plover]

Sure, dwarf wizard is fine! Species doesn't tend to give any overwhelming advantage (although some may have features better suited to certain play styles). 2014 or 2024 rules?

#character-discussion would be the place to discuss it further.

[leaden marlin]

Agreed. I’m sorry for not having a keen eye to have found out about said channel sooner.

[foggy marsh]

Yes I'm playing with some friends for the first time, I saw some tutorials recently

[leaden marlin]

• And also have fun all of you (even if it doesn’t end up as expected)

[still plover]

Not to worry, it's a big server and a lot of it stays hidden by default. Check the #channel-guide to see all the nooks and crannies.

[lavish flame]

Start small. All you need to start with is a small town (think abt places a player might visit: blacksmith, inn, tavern, general goods store, priest), wilderness, and locations in wilderness to explore.

[undone rain]

With like simple old goblins if you ever need combat

[lavish flame]

Yeah, the Basic Rules should give you enemies to work with. I like using Gnolls and Lizardfolk for my low level encounters

[undone rain]

Yeah those are some good ones too

Perhaps bugbears and such at level 2

[still plover]

Twig blights!

[foggy marsh]

Everything is understandable right now but after all fo this I still don't know how the time in D&D works

Because It tells me about the Sea and that every 6 hours there is the tide but there is no page that says how time works

[still plover]

Time be time. I take it you're looking at a prewritten adventure?

[foggy marsh]

Yes

The introductive set

[still plover]

Okay, well, if the tide is an important part of it I'd imagine the text says what kind of time it is to start, how long to get from location to location and so on.

A combat is over in a minute. Searching a room takes ten minutes. A short rest is an hour, long rest is eight. The rest you judge yourself.

I haven't read that adventure, but you might get more specific direction checking in #1029833015423143957.

[undone rain]

Id love a pirate setting for our party. But ive always liked pirates in general

[mighty wharf]

Imagine playing the equivalent of a digital pirate in DnD

I imagine that would be a wizard obsessed with copying spells from libraries using spell scrolls

[severe rampart]

Wouldn't that be like really easy?

[crystal latch]

Wizard piracy is using Fabricate on ink and other materials to duplicate another wizard's spellbook

Or just doing the simpler thing and using Minor Conjuration

[rough basalt]

Now it's settling in how much tabletop projects I'm about to smother myself with.

[mighty wharf]

Yeah and then in universe you could use other wizards spells like tensers floating disk, leomunds tiny hut, and all of the tasha spells lol

[buoyant oar]

You know you think if I had a wizard who was trying to cheat the economy by casting fabricate to make vials of ink, I would tell them to pick the ink or the vial for each cast

[hollow hedge]

I wish barbarian had the same STR/DEX requirement other classes have instead of the single STR requirement so it's better for blending with other classes

[proper forum]

Huge shame that there are no elecrtic guitars in D&D. A metal bard would go so hard.

[hollow hedge]

Eh, nothing a good homebrewin' can't fix though

[proper forum]

Yeah as if my DM ever would

[crystal latch]

There are far simpler ways to break the economy with Fabricate so this doesn't actually do anything

[buoyant oar]

It's not the ability to do so. It's the intent

[crystal latch]

Armor is a common choice

[stark maple]

is the vecna statblock just suppose to teleport around and heal?

Vile Teleport. Vecna teleports, along with any equipment he is wearing or carrying, up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space he can see. He can cause each creature of his choice within 15 feet of his destination space to take 10 (3d6) psychic damage. If at least one creature takes this damage, Vecna regains 80 hit points.

[crystal latch]

More or less, except when you fight him in the module it's in a location where his teleport+heal ability is blocked

[buoyant oar]

If you talked about the one from the most recent Adventure, it's pretty underwhelming

[crystal latch]

As is the entire module

[buoyant oar]

Pretty much ever since that Adventure module teleporting has become the league design team's favorite ability

[stark maple]

this is the funniest thing ive ever seen inmylife

[crystal latch]

Tbh that module is funny because it's just sad

[stark maple]

bro doesnt have any legendary actions

[buoyant oar]

Yeah for a 50th anniversary big shebang it falls definitely flat

[crystal latch]

An unoptimized fighter bonking him with the macguffin item kills him before he has a chance to act
However due to bad writing he wins if he dies

[buoyant oar]

Especially after reading the article about what it was going to be, which is what everyone thought it was going to be dealing with the obelisks

[stark maple]

he does have 3 reactions

[hollow hedge]

I'm just hoping my DM would let DEX slide as a Stat you could have on your moves and still be able to benefit from barbaric rage

[stark maple]

thats about all hegets action ecomany wisse

[buoyant oar]

Eve of Ruin got rise of skywalkered

[crystal latch]

When I was playing through that dungeon, we asked the DM to multiply the number of enemies in every encounter by 10 and add all the demon lords with 5e statblocks to the dungeon

[stark maple]

legit

[proper forum]

Thar would just make rage OP in my opinion

Also yes I am a horse now

[hollow hedge]

Yeahhh.....

[stark maple]

how would it be op

[crystal latch]

I don't think there exists much that would make Rage of all things overpowered

[proper forum]

Not like you care but I am watching a horse rave rn (I don't gamble I just like horses)

[hollow hedge]

But it would stop the other op things you get from higher levels

[stark maple]

allowing barbarians to use dex weapons with rage aint all that op

[proper forum]

Because it already is based off of strength isn't it

[hollow hedge]

Or dex unarmed strike

[crystal latch]

It's still a barbarian, it's far from overpowered

[stark maple]

yea

[proper forum]

Are barbarians considered weak?

[stark maple]

on the weaker end yeah

[crystal latch]

They are weak

[proper forum]

Hmmm. I never thought of it that way.

[crystal latch]

Barbarians are on the weaker end even among martials

[proper forum]

I never thought that not all classes are created equal. That is a shame.

[hollow hedge]

So I'm hoping my DM would accept it (probably would considering it's not OP) so I could have some cool points without sacrificing my build to the heavens above

[crystal latch]

Barb working with Dex stuff would be cool

[stark maple]

i agree

[hollow hedge]

Very

[crystal latch]

Let them dual wield cannons

[stark maple]

reckless attacking

[karmic pendant]

It sounds like a fun idea

[hollow hedge]

Absolutely

[proper forum]

So guys I want to make a metal bard. Electric guitars are obviously not a thing in D&D so what do I go for?

[crystal latch]

Minor Illusion to create sound

[stark maple]

true

[proper forum]

So you mean to use minor illusion to make a lute sound like an electric guitar?

Wait... that's just a just a distortion pedal but in magic form. Holy stallion.

So you like play the lute like you would and then use minor illusion to add distortion. Wow. WOW.

[serene jolt]

I was always pretty amused when I had my Artillarist Eldritch Cannon just sitting on the barbarian's shoulders and doing flamethrower or THP over and over again. 🤣

It was pretty dang fun. This comment reminded me of that.

[pearl hedge]

but they're excellent at dealing huge amounts of damage. ideally you do want to have a paladin as a frontline since they can absorb a lot of damage, sustain themselves and cast spells but you can frontline as a barbarian

[proper forum]

Our current party doesn't even have a tank and we're doing fine

[pearl hedge]

exactly my point

[serene jolt]

In my westmarch, our party had no front liners and half of the time, we were running away 🤣

But we were level 4s

[pearl hedge]

reminds me of the monty python and the holy grail scene: "run awayyy! run away!!!"

[serene jolt]

It was a lot of disengaging and teleporting and stuff.

[proper forum]

In any other game 2 healers and 3 dps would be horrible team comp and yet we're not really doing that bad

[serene jolt]

Our cleric was literally climbing up a cliff side trying to escape while we were trying to do just enough damage to live.

[pearl hedge]

not really, you just do so much damage you don't get hit. simple

[pearl hedge]

maybe you should have followed his example?

[proper forum]

That's mostly thanks to the monk and the warlock (me) doing massive amounts of damage

[serene jolt]

Nah I was doing much better running on flat ground

[pearl hedge]

i'm not a fan of playing martial classes but i do have to admit they do look cool

[proper forum]

Never mess with a hexblade

[pearl hedge]

that kind of goes without saying right?

[proper forum]

Brethren. Your role says rogue.

[pearl hedge]

i don't do unarmed strikes? i have daggers shortswords and shortbows

[serene jolt]

There was an Artillarist Artificer (me), a Thief Rogue, a Divine Soul Sorcerer (sorry I forgot, it wasn't a cleric), a ranged Fighter of some kind, and a Draconic Sorcerer.

[pearl hedge]

eldritch knight fighter?

[proper forum]

I thought martial meant physical damage dealer

[serene jolt]

Nah they weren't doing anything like that.

[pearl hedge]

martial means unarmed strikes like a monk

[serene jolt]

Oh no I remember. It was a Rune Fighter.

[pearl hedge]

interesting!

[proper forum]

Shout out to my friend who played monk twice and showed me that monks are really strong and deal hide damage

[serene jolt]

The draconic sorcerer spent the whole time trying to fly upwards and getting knocked out, falling and taking death save fails from falling.

The divine soul was trying to climb up cliffs in hopes to get away but he was chased the whole time. He did some healing and a little damage here and there.

The Rune Fighter sat in the back with a longbow as a giant until he was swarmed.

And I, the Artificer, was both trying to stay out of range but also firing at them with fire bolt and my cannon. I also gave a ton of THPs when I could.

[proper forum]

*huge. Hube damage. Autocorrect why you gotta do me like that.

OH COME ON

WHY CANT I TYPE

[hollow hedge]

Even better with DEX barbaric rage

[glass granite]

“Martial” in dnd usually refers to someone who uses weapons or unarmed strikes over magic

[pearl hedge]

@proper forum what's your discord profile effect from?

[pearl hedge]

yeah i was referring to unarmed strikes

[glass granite]

I’m just saying how it could’ve been confused

[hollow hedge]

Don't rouges do unarmed strikes though?

[glass granite]

Nah

[proper forum]

The store where I'm assuming you bought yours from. Look for zodiac. Then for Aries. But I assure you all zodiac signs look really good.

[glass granite]

They can’t sneak attack with their hands

[hollow hedge]

Oh-

[pearl hedge]

awesome, thank you

[glass granite]

Plus, considering unarmed strikes scale with strength, which rogues don’t focus on, unarmed strikes are really bad with them actually

[hollow hedge]

They also scale with DEX, don't they?

[glass granite]

Only if you’re a monk

(The goat!)

[hollow hedge]

Oh- well if they're interested in a nice 1 level dip, which they probably aren't they could change that

[glass granite]

I sometimes take rogue dips when I’m playing monk

But even if rogues do a monk dip they can’t use Sneak Attack with unarmed strikes (maybe an unarmed subclass could be cool)

[hollow hedge]

I feel like taking a little dip in barbarian if my DM would allow me to use barbaric rage with DEX weapons/attacks would be pretty cool

[worn lagoon]

i'd just flavor a shortsword as spiked knuckles and go

[pearl hedge]

yeah i would never use an unarmed strike if i didn't have my weapons with me

[glass granite]

Do you have enough strength?

[proper forum]

Never mess with a monk

[pearl hedge]

agreed

[glass granite]

Monks are my fav class by far

They’re, neatly, also the best for prison escapes.

[hollow hedge]

"if my DM would allow me to use barbaric rage with DEX weapons/attacks"

[glass granite]

To multiclass

Not for the weapons

[proper forum]

For 2 of my campaigns a monk was the one dealing the most damage

[glass granite]

2024 monk is a great thing

[hollow hedge]

Yes, I just need to get to lvl 4 for the wisdom needed for it

[glass granite]

You don’t use wisdom to multiclass into barb tho

[hollow hedge]

How much strength do you need?

[glass granite]

13

[proper forum]

In the last session our monk died. His player wanted to leave the campaign so he did that. RIP monk.

[worn lagoon]

you are playing a monk with less than 13 wisdom?

[proper forum]

But now this means that I, the Warlock, am the one dealing the most damage 😈

[glass granite]

Oh wait I missed that, that’s unique

[hushed mason]

I... don't think I would let someone do that.

[hollow hedge]

I may have put all my stats things into DEX- my dex is a nice 16

[hushed mason]

Intentionally weak builds can be a strain on the party.

[worn lagoon]

You should ideally have 16 in both, as a monk

[glass granite]

Or 14

[crystal latch]

Unless doing a gunk build, then 13 Wis will likely suffice

Wis not dex

[hollow hedge]

Everything's averaged out on my PC. No dump stats

[glass granite]

Then do you have enough strength?

[hollow hedge]

Yes

[glass granite]

Noice

[proper forum]

Huge mistake

[worn lagoon]

that's... i see.

[hollow hedge]

As I said it is at 13

[glass granite]

-# wait hol up why do you have more strength than wis

[hollow hedge]

This is my first campaign okay?

I'm trying my best

[proper forum]

Oh sorry I didn't know

[glass granite]

For future reference dnd usually prefers specialisation.
Anywho, monk barbarians are cool

I like abbreviating it to BONK

[hollow hedge]

Or my personal favorite BARBONK

[glass granite]

-# also apologies but where did you say this?

[glass granite]

Barbonk is also peak. I’m stealing that

[hollow hedge]

:P

[candid wasp]

I'm looking for a group?

[worn lagoon]

he can't multiclass because he lacks wisdom

[glass granite]

Check out #find-a-game

[idle oar]

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[hollow hedge]

I'll get it at lvl 4

[glass granite]

Ah mb I missed that

[worn lagoon]

if it's 12 get resillient wis

[hollow hedge]

CON and WIS?

[worn lagoon]

no

[hollow hedge]

The feat?

[glass granite]

Mhm

Personally I’d just say take the stat to 14 if it’s 12

[proper forum]

If you are familiar with video games, let me explain this to you in videogame terms: D&D isn't a game like Assasin's Creed and Skyrin where you need all your stats to be high and a broad skillset. It's more like Final Fantasy. Your party consists of multiple members, so each of them needs to be specialized in something specific. So it os important for classes to focus on their most important stats, which are their attacking and spellcasting stats.

[glass granite]

Or if you got 13 or 15 con increase that and wisdom by one

[worldly flare]

Hey, what are we talking about?

[glass granite]

Barbonks

[proper forum]

Stats distribution

[worldly flare]

Interesting

[glass granite]

Actually I’m realising this feels #character-discussion coded

[worn lagoon]

yeah its basically final fantasy

[red forge]

is there a chat where you can ask for advice for a pc?

[crystal latch]

The general core "your build works if you have this" for stats is

• enough Dex to get the most out of your armor type
• highest score (16+) in your spellcasting ability, or your weapon stat for rangers and martials
• the highest Con you can afford
• 13s for multiclassing where required

[robust umbra]

Amulet of health is nice :>

[worn lagoon]

you can rarely go wrong with the 16/14/16

[proper forum]

Yes go to #character-discussion

[red forge]

thnk u

[hollow hedge]

But yeah, barbonks

[acoustic fox]

Tried to send character sheet seems locked

opps wrong tread

[tall forge]

Still on about the monk barbarian?

Ya just gotta accept you arent gonna be strong for the first 5-6 or so levels

[hot marlin]

Even after I'm pretty sure that it will just be weaker than a straight monk or straight barbarian

[tall forge]

It will

But i can understand multiclassing for fun instead of being optimal

[hot marlin]

Of course, though I admit that I'm not seeing where the fun would be in such a mix

[tall forge]

I still personally disagree with this

[vast seal]

hiii

[worldly flare]

Heyyyy

Just working on my theorycrafting stuff.

[tall forge]

Barbonk starting from level 1 is just brutal

[reef copper]

Personaly i feel like monks and barbarians are very different in filler and i generally don't like them going together.

One is brute force one is precision

One is tanking one is dodging

I mean you can merge them but thematicaly im not a huge fan. I did make a monk barbarian once i planed to play that i liked.

[cobalt schooner]

idk, would you just dump str and use the monk ability to use dex instead of str? and would happen with the unarmered ac, would you get dex, con, and wis to ac?

[reef copper]

you get one of them from ac and you idealy want dex and strength high and dump int and cha completely

[tall forge]

Presumably youd dump dex, have high str

And wear medium armor for ac if you wanna be optimal

[reef copper]

why medium armor lol, what about monk and barbarian abilities

[tall forge]

Legit not worth it

Bc of how MAD the multiclass is

[cobalt schooner]

yeah i dont get the dex dump or the armor. so you go last in combat and your ac is worse than if you were just naked?

[tall forge]

Well your dex would be 13

Bc it has to be

And you can move that to a 14

But to get as much benefits as possible out of this multiclass you have to be strength based

And this multiclass for its full potential needs 4 stats

Which isnt realistic

So dropping the least beneficial stats is a must

Which is, in order from least important to most

Wisdom, dex, con, strength

[reef copper]

pick monk first and multiclass barbarian?

[tall forge]

You still need a 13 in dex

[crystal latch]

This changes nothing, yeah

[tall forge]

And wisdom

Multiclass rules are for multiclassing into AND out of a class

[reef copper]

you are right

[tall forge]

You wanna be a wizard sorceror? You need a 13 in int and charisma

[crystal latch]

The only time I've seen a functional monk/barb build was this

[minor cargo]

Yeah, similar to wizard barbarian, I think monk barbarian is more of an exercise in playing with character rules.

In my mind, although a monk barbarian might make sense from a narrative point of view, I can't think of anything that "defines" it that I can't do through just existing mono-class builds and flavouring.

[tall forge]

And between dex and strength, id rather give up the stat that is already held up by other features (dex)

[minor cargo]

Not to yuck anyone's yum, of course. If a true barbarian monk multiclass makes someone happy, go for it.

[tall forge]

Dex saving throws? Evasion plus danger sense

[jovial shadow]

You can't flavor Flurry of Blows or Rage

[tall forge]

Inititative? Take the L or take a feat

AC? Medium armor

Meanwhile losing strength means we lose rage bonus damage, and this multiclass already is gonna suck at doing damage…

[halcyon forum]

its not like Monk/Barb doesnt have synergies, but the stat spread and action economy just work against the combo

[humble cairn]

I've absolutely flavored Rage as a martial arts stance before.

[tall forge]

You can flavor anything

You can flavor HP if you wanted

Ive seen player concepts of a dude who has realistically 1 hp, hes just so incredibly lucky that every attack misses until his hp hits 0

Flavor rage as runic sigils actively increasing your strength

There are plenty of Eastern martial arts all about using your rage and calmness in Harmony

[eager marsh]

It’s generally difficult to not play like your own class

[tall forge]

I mean, a class is just abilities, not a roleplay archetype you gotta follow

I have a scientist whose a “cleric” only mechanically

[stuck shuttle]

Yup they’re just bags of mechanics. Theres a default flavor but it doesn’t have to be followed

[tall forge]

But they use science and alchemy, no god at all

[eager marsh]

That almost never actually happens without roleplay to try and learn into it so this feels like a straw man complaint

[stuck shuttle]

They were studying in their downtime, or perhaps they were a scholar all along and only now have manifested their arcane abilities. Increasing levels narratively doesn’t have to be “suddenly I get this”

[eager marsh]

Even regular wizard leveling assumes those free spells on levelup in your book were done during downtime between quests

[tall forge]

Sounds like it

[eager marsh]

Which is a fine thing to hate

[tall forge]

But i love creating characters who act nothing like the class archetype

[tropic stirrup]

Going from ranger to wizard feels like you made a mistake somewhere and started course correcting

[tall forge]

And sometimes characters who lean extremely into that archetype

[stone panther]

session tonight!! im excited

[humble cairn]

Flavoring can do a lot. Used Beast Barbarian to make a wuxia themed monastic martial artist. The Beast Barb abilities were flavored as martial techniques instead of shape shifting. It worked out great, actually.

Eagle Claw Technique instead of claws, etc.

[tall forge]

Same

[tall forge]

Flavoring is like, the solution to 90% of homebrew

[jovial shadow]

Flavoring does nothing mechanical. It's just "I pretend" added on to a game PC you are already pretending play. Eh.

[tall forge]

Yeah…. And?

Thats like, the main draw of RP

[stone panther]

yeah its not exactly "added on" to the game if the whole game is pretend lol

[grim fjord]

Fr

[prime basin]

Flavoring can absolutely do something mechanical, it is could be just a niche but fun feature or you have the ability to change a damage type to a damage type related to this subclass, or you get proficiency in a certain skill, etc

[tall forge]

That too

[hot marlin]

I do not think it's flavoring if it does something mechanical.

[prime basin]

its not a groundbreaking mechanic, its just something small that fits the theme of the class