dnd-discussion

[hearty bay]

And yet, the rune knight cared not, for their journey allowed them to defy nature, physics, the very cosmic order. Upon being faced by height made into being, they gave it a warm hug, like that of old friends meeting after decades and, after such hug, they nearly caused an extinction event, by handing the many handed a shameless suplex

[woven flint]

Asmodeus, Tiamat, Bahamut, Tarrasque...

[feral fulcrum]

Using Enlarge + that one magic item from Phandelver's second adventure.

[fossil hollow]

Tarrasque, Tiamat, Bahamut, technically Asmodeus if we're counting Chains of Asmodeus

[woven flint]

Bahamut is also CR 30, but I doubt He'd go rampaging lol

[gray garden]

bahamut doesnt have a stat block

[fossil hollow]

he does

[woven flint]

Yes he does.

[gray garden]

where?

[hearty bay]

A level 14 path of the giant barbarian with enlarge could match anyone in height

[fossil hollow]

fizban. Same place we get an updated tiamat

[hearty bay]

Bahamut doesn't have a stat block, they have a stat wall

[gray garden]

thats an aspect not the acutal bahamut

[fossil hollow]

although its their aspects. Theyre both CR 30 though, with a second health bar

[gray garden]

unlike tiamat

[feral fulcrum]

I loved playing a Fairy Rune Knight just so I could be Huge at level 5.

[fossil hollow]

before you say Hoard is not an avatar, its an avatar

[worn lagoon]

The bahamut "stat block" i've prepared in advance for something has a spell save dc of 35

[gray garden]

you do know fizban is bahamut right

why would he write himself a stat block

[fossil hollow]

Why would i not? I love that goofy old man

[rough basalt]

Because he wanted to

He's not always larping

[gray garden]

tiamat real statblock is from TOD

[fossil hollow]

and anyway, the Tiamat statblock in Tyranny of Dragons is also an avatar

[woven flint]

Fizbans Treasury Of Dragons

[gray garden]

true but its stronger in the fact

[rough basalt]

Eh

[fossil hollow]

its... still an avatar/aspect. Not the actual one

[atomic kayak]

All the god statblocks we have in 5e are avatars, yes even that one

[gray garden]

limited magic immunity

[fossil hollow]

Rakshasha also have that feature, so theyre gods too?

[hearty bay]

Gnome artificer too, with armorer, iirc

[hot marlin]

While this is obviously a joke, let's repeat: Fizban did not really write that book, nor did Volo write that guide to monsters, nor did Mordenkainen write that tome of foes

[atomic kayak]

Very notably with that one even specifying that she very explicitly does not actually die. She, as a god, is entirely fine even if the avatar dies

[rough basalt]

Iirc ||in ToD you get items that help against her statblock||

[woven flint]

I mean, Asmodeus isn't an Aspect in Chains and he's considered a Greater Deity in 5e.
Bahamut and Tiamat are Lesser deities but all we have are their aspects lol

[gray garden]

wdym Volo totally wrote that guide to monsters you fool

[hot marlin]

Plenty of things are fine when they die without being gods, including my astrally projected monk.

And just about every fiend.

[fossil hollow]

Oh and the Tiamat in DiA also just literally has Discorporation and is also an avatar

[feral fulcrum]

And Bigby's hands are not that big.

[atomic kayak]

Somewhat inherently, all god statblocks are avatars (in 5e). The gods themselves don't die if the avatars do

[fossil hollow]

Not even Auril

[gray garden]

why does tiamat need an aspect and an avatar 😭

[worn lagoon]

you gotta bring out the lv12 spells to kill a god ig

[fossil hollow]

because the aspect is the updated version

[gray garden]

talk about paranoid

[hot marlin]

Because "aspect" and "avatar" in this conversation are more or less synonyms for the same concept

[woven flint]

Because Tiamat is the most glazed diety in D&D history for whatever reason

[hot marlin]

I prefer "aspect", the word "avatar" can go die in a ditch somewhere

[atomic kayak]

||the book even mentions how she doesnt die if the avatar is killed, and it would take a lot more work to do anything permanent||

[worn lagoon]

Five heads is 4 more than most deities have

[gray garden]

they are the god of evil dragon kind

[woven flint]

Tiamat is a LOSER

[gray garden]

without them this game would just be dungeons and dungeons

[fossil hollow]

I agree with Tokii here. The best dragon god is obviously Sardior

[hot marlin]

Well yeah, she has lost some, she's won some.

[atomic kayak]

Despite dnd ostensibly trying to make a difference between them in previous editions, even in previous editions they have also always been functionally used in very similar manners to portray similar (if not identical) concepts

[gray garden]

the best god has to be AO

[woven flint]

She got demoted from being an Archdevil, that's the biggest L she ever could've taken

[hot marlin]

She's a winner and a loser, like everyone.

[hot marlin]

Uh? She's still an archdevil.

[vale sage]

gave my friends the option of some settings i would run a game for them in (we're trying adnd 2e, since we wanted to try an older edition to see how we like it!) and they chose birthright, the kingdom management setting 😭

im so cooked

[hot marlin]

An archdevil is someone at the top of the devil hierarchy, which she is.

[woven flint]

I don't think she is

[atomic kayak]

She is notably not the archdevil of Avernus

[gray garden]

have fun with sims dnd

[gray garden]

theres more then one archdevil lol??

[fossil hollow]

... i swear to god DiA had a tiamat avatar

[woven flint]

Yes.

[hot marlin]

Yeah she's not an layer lord, but she's an archdevil

[vale sage]

cant wait for my players to wage war against each other session 1

[feral fulcrum]

Isn't she an Archdemon? Tiamat that is.

[atomic kayak]

Yes her avatar was reprinted there

[fossil hollow]

... theres at least one for each layer of the nine hells

[hot marlin]

Titivilus doesn't rule any layer, he's still an archdevil

[worn lagoon]

my first exposure to a dragon named tiamat wasn't immune to a basic instant death spell due to an overlook so now i'm still not able to comprehend the threat that is dnd tiamat

[woven flint]

No
Also
They're Demon Lords/Princes not Archdemons

Though one could say potato patato.

[feral fulcrum]

Eh, I'll still call em Archdemons, got a better ring to it.

[fossil hollow]

ok, where the hell is the tiamat statblock, give it to me DDB

[gray garden]

there is one for each layer the most notable being Zariel who was a fallen solar

[woven flint]

Archdemons sounds horrible to me

[hot marlin]

She's not a demon.

[feral fulcrum]

Probably Fizbans or that one Tiamat adventure.

[woven flint]

But no, Tiamat isn't a Demon

[gray garden]

theres no such thing as arch demons lmao

[fossil hollow]

i know theres one in DiA, but i cant find it in there

[stiff rock]

she's a deity isn't she?

[worn lagoon]

I don't think dragon heist has tiamat stat block

[hot marlin]

She's a dragon, a goddess, a fiend and a denizen of the nine hells

[woven flint]

Though, oddly, Tiamat is the only Chaotic Evil devil, then

[buoyant oar]

Archdevils do not need to be rulers of a layer. Nor are they singular.

[gray garden]

bingo

[stiff rock]

tyranny of dragons does! i will check it now

[fossil hollow]

never mentioned Dragon Heist

[vale sage]

i should eventually work on a homebrew dnd setting, ive done worldbuilding a lot but not for dnd

[feral fulcrum]

Never said she was, but I'm 90% sure she did spend time/is spending time ruling over a chunk of the Abyss. Which defacto makes one an Archdemon.

[jovial shadow]

Did something change in Wotc from TSR? Tiamat is a goddess, therefore not something lowly as an Archdevil in any edition I have ever heard of. The reasons why she resides in the 9 hells is explained in the current DMG

[buoyant oar]

The 4th layer of Baator has two lord archdevils

[gray garden]

i prefer Dis

[hot marlin]

By virtue of being a goddess that has authority in the nine hells and is part of the nine hells hierarchy, she's also an archdevil, without being a devil

[fossil hollow]

she can still be a goddess and archdevil. The latter is a title

[stiff rock]

as of tyranny of dragons, she is a fiend type

[hot marlin]

I do not recall any single book stating that she spent time in the abyss

[gray garden]

Asmodues is also a greater deitity and is still an archdevil as well

[atomic kayak]

(Archdevil is a mildly confusing term to use anyway because while yes it applies to a slightly wider categories of devils, it is also sometimes used just to refer to the Archdukes (aka the lords of the nine))

[woven flint]

It's almost like...
Creatures can have multiple titles

[feral fulcrum]

I may be mixing her up with Lolth a little.

[gray garden]

archdevil and archduke mean the same thing

[atomic kayak]

Lolth is the goddess who is both a demon lord and a god

[buoyant oar]

Shout out to Gargauth the Hidden Lord, tenth lord of the nine.

[gray garden]

arch just means the power they hold over the hells

[hot marlin]

Let's put it simply: An archduke rules over a layer. All archdukes are archdevils, not all archdevils are archdukes

[atomic kayak]

They do, except when they don't. Hence my point about it being confusing.

[fossil hollow]

speaking of lolth, another example of a god who has a fiendish title

[woven flint]

Hell, an Archfey can be considered a God
Why wouldn't an Archdevil?
The notion is nonsensical

[gray garden]

this

[buoyant oar]

Same could be said for Asmo, Archdevil of nessus and god.

[hot marlin]

Some archdevils are gods, yes.

[woven flint]

Just because they're a "Devil" doesn't mean they can be a Deity and Vice-Versa

[atomic kayak]

Bel is still an archdevil, despite not being an archduke

[gray garden]

gods arent just based on POWER its also based on the amount of followers they have

[hot marlin]

Titivilus is not a god but he is an archdevil. Asmodeus and Tiamat are gods and archdevils.

[woven flint]

I'm aware

[jovial shadow]

Incorrect. The DMG describes Asmodeus as being a lesser power, not a Greater god at all. Tiamat is a goddess, not a lowly archdevil.

[fossil hollow]

again. shes literally both

[atomic kayak]

Yea Asmo and Lolth I would say are the best examples of "they are both a god and something else" (archdevil and demon lord respectively)

[hot marlin]

Sometimes I feel like people have trouble conceptualizing the idea that two things can be true at once

[atomic kayak]

These things are not mutually exclusive

[fossil hollow]

its literally the same scenario as Asmodeus and Lolth

[gray garden]

Power Level
Greater deity[note 1]
Alignment
Lawful evil
Symbol
Three inverted triangles arranged in a long triangle
Home Plane
Nine Hells
Realm
Nessus

[woven flint]

Asmodeus is Greater Deity level BECAUSE he consumed a greater deity.

[feral fulcrum]

I blame WOTC going with Monotyping. With a dash of Poor Reading Compherension

[gray garden]

idk where your reading lol

[hot marlin]

I'm guessing this is a quote from the wiki?

[halcyon bison]

Yum!

[fossil hollow]

the titles aint really a mechanical thing though

[gray garden]

also from CHAINS

[jovial shadow]

You are incorrect. She's not an Archdevil. Never has been

[atomic kayak]

In the context of 5e Asmo has, bare minimum, always been a deity.

[hot marlin]

If it is: Don't do that. Quoting wikis is a bad habit. Quote the source the wiki is using

[fossil hollow]

Oh? Never? thats a wild take

[gray garden]

asmodues is a dude..

[atomic kayak]

No, Tiamat very much has been the archduke (and thus an archdevil) of Avernus

[woven flint]

Multiple people have told you she is, I think you're the incorrect one and just being stubborn about admitting the fact that YOU'RE wrong.

[jovial shadow]

I was reading the DMG. lol

[fossil hollow]

i can even show you the 2014 Monster Manual and DMG that shows shes an archdevil

[gray garden]

Tiamat is primarily a deity—the Queen of Evil Dragons—but she has historically served as an archdevil ruling the first layer of the Nine Hells (Avernus) in many Dungeons & Dragons editions

not so sure if its true in newer 5e and 5.5e

[fossil hollow]

it was in 2014, im looking through the MM and DMG rn

[uncut zenith]

Also worth remembering that some gods aren’t gods in certain settings

[hot marlin]

Again: Archdevil is a political title. That's it. It means you're at the top of the hierarchy in the nine hells. That you're part of the aristocracy, granted special privileges.

[gray garden]

Archdevil Status: She is often described as an archdevil and has historically been linked to the Nine Hells, aiding in the Blood War and cooperating with devils like Bel.

[buoyant oar]

Archdevil is described in the 2024 DMG.

Archdevils. The archdevils include all the current and deposed rulers of the Nine Hells, as well as the fiendish aristocrats that make up their courts, attend them as advisers, and hope to supplant them.

[atomic kayak]

the lesser vs greaty ranking of quite a few gods has been mildly inconsistent within 5e (Asmo and Tiamat being prime examples), even before 2024

[woven flint]

When will D&D players learn to read? /half-joking

[jovial shadow]

This isn't a democracy. The books all say she is a goddess. She has never been called an Archdevil. It's irrelevant how many people disagree with me. Those are the facts

[gray garden]

her HOME PLANE is the 9 hells

[uncut zenith]

For example, the Raven Queen is a mysterious entity of unknown origin in most settings, but in others she is a goddess

[fossil hollow]

again, read the 2014 MM

[atomic kayak]

But thats not true. She literally is called an archdevil lol.

As already mentioned, being both a goddess and an archdevil are not mutually exclusive

[jovial shadow]

This is 2024.

[fossil hollow]

never is a strong word to use there

[gray garden]

Discorporation. When Tiamat drops to 0 hit points or dies, her body is destroyed but her essence travels back to her domain in the Nine Hells, and she is unable to take physical form for a time.

[hot marlin]

She has been called an archdevil

[atomic kayak]

still 5e

[hot marlin]

So problem solved then.

[fossil hollow]

Your claim that she has never been called one is still incorrect

[gray garden]

tiamat home plan is legit Avernus

[jovial shadow]

Because she made her residence in the Nine Hells. She's a goddess. No one is going to tell her no.

[hot marlin]

Actually this is now 2026. But it's only January, so many people are not used to it yet

[woven flint]

Lol

[atomic kayak]

Incidentally, she's being trapped there

[woven flint]

Why are we even Arguing?
It's Lich Lord.

[gray garden]

gang you can be a goddess and a devil those two title are not mutually exclusive

[atomic kayak]

Very much not a case of "not telling her no" and moreso "telling her yes"

[uncut zenith]

No need to be rude

[hot marlin]

Yes, she made her residence in the nine hells, and was given the rank of archdevil.

[fossil hollow]

at this point its gotta be trolling

[gray garden]

rage baiting

[woven flint]

I dunno, they're kinda rude to everyone like, always.

[hot marlin]

Anyways, the point is made, we all know Lich Lord is wrong. Let's move on

[jovial shadow]

The DMG is wish washy on that too, because in another part it says that she stays there under some agremeent

[idle oar]

Hey folks please keep things civil even if you disagree

[atomic kayak]

and is not being kept there (seemingly at least partially unwillingly) as a guard dog

[hot marlin]

An agreement can be a trap. Again, there is no mutual exclusivity

[gray garden]

mhm

[fossil hollow]

i feel like those words are synonyms in a devil's vocab

[hot marlin]

I feel like a devil's vocabulary would actually use completely different words for the slightest nuance.

[gray garden]

one thing i do thing is strange is that in the new 2024 rules succubus and incubus can turn into one another

[fossil hollow]

always been a thing

[atomic kayak]

Thats not that strange yea

[minor cargo]

I actually really, really like that change. I thought it was really interesting.

[feral fulcrum]

It's not strange at all in the wider setting.

[gray garden]

no it hasnt

[fossil hollow]

Though legend speaks of them separately, any succubus can become an incubus, and vice versa. Most of these fiends do have a preference for one form or the other. Mortals only rarely see a succubus or incubus in its true form, however, for the fiend typically begins its corruption in veiled, insidious ways.

[feral fulcrum]

Magic makes such things very easy.

[woven flint]

Succubi when I'm more attracted to the idea of success

[fossil hollow]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/mm-2014/monsters-s#SuccubusIncubus

[gray garden]

i guess it just wasnt on the statblock

[fossil hollow]

its been around for 11 years at the very least

[buoyant oar]

Dragon Magazine #38 p.41

Being an Arch Devil, Tiamat is subject to Protection from Evil spells, Protection from Arch Devil Scrolls, etc.

[fossil hollow]

i mean, they literally share the same statblock in 2014

[feral fulcrum]

Alter Self can do it, and it's a very low level spell.

[fossil hollow]

bring back the ability to let them summon Demon Lords though

[gray garden]

yeah but now there two diffrent stat blocks one being about dreams and the other being about well a normal succubus

[fossil hollow]

yeah?

[gray garden]

they can even force you to have nightmares now

its wicked cool tho

Incubi can transform into succubi and vice versa, taking the forms they need to manipulate foes in dreams or in the flesh.

[halcyon bison]

Dreams are delicious too

[woven flint]

I can't wait to kill Devils in Avernus...
I know we're a bit away from that, but I'm waiting for it

[fossil hollow]

i mean, they technically can. They have unlimited telepathy on Charmed creatures

[hot marlin]

Not all dreams are delicious. I dreamt of a very poorly made soup the other night

[gray garden]

they can mess with you in your dream or in the flesh

[fossil hollow]

nothing is stopping them from telepathically messing up their brain while you sleep

[woven flint]

This upsets me, now I'm going to dream about it

[fossil hollow]

Telepathic Bond. The fiend ignores the range restriction on its telepathy when communicating with a creature it has charmed. The two don’t even need to be on the same plane of existence

[gray garden]

byt they do have to finish a long rest before they can

[hot marlin]

Remember to secure your rest people!

[gray garden]

jokes on you i play bug people and i dont need to sleep!

[woven flint]

Incubus, I demand a written apology for possibly making me dream of bad soup tonight!!!

[halcyon bison]

Nooo, have good dreams about tasty foods.

[buoyant oar]

Bring back the lilitu. Succubus ++

Succubi who gained more power by corrupting and sacrificing a congregation.

[minor cargo]

To be fair, humans eat a lot of food that maybe wouldn't be considered "delicious".

A lot of beer, for exmaple, is just really bitter. Some are even sour. I think "deliciousness" is subjective - and I would imagine succubi/inccubi might feel similarly.

[fossil hollow]

make sure to rest up before session lmao

[gray garden]

Incubus Form. When the succubus finishes a Long Rest, it can shape-shift into an Incubus, using that stat block instead of this one.

i also do like how dnd did make a lot of the lower tier creaures more scary to face

[fossil hollow]

yeah, the unlimited telepathy was in 2014. Which means they can do it from any plane of existence to just whisper the most horrible things to you in your dreams

[gray garden]

it feels like CR means something

[fossil hollow]

"You ran out of garlic bread"

[gray garden]

like the new solar if your just below 100 hit points and fail the dex save you just DIE

[woven flint]

I'm angry Ti threw Death Knight Aspirants instead of the real thing at us.

Simply enraged at the prospect

[halcyon bison]

Owch

[fossil hollow]

... also still a thing in 2014

although its a CON save

[gray garden]

yeah but it has to hit and you have to fail a con save as well

[fossil hollow]

+13 is pretty high

[gray garden]

but 15 isnt

[fossil hollow]

that said though, the 2024 one doing it on multiattack is crazy

[gray garden]

Dexterity Saving Throw: DC 21, one creature the solar can see within 600 feet. Failure: If the creature has 100 Hit Points or fewer, it dies. It otherwise takes 24 (4d8 + 6) Piercing damage plus 36 (8d8) Radiant damage.

truely a suck or save

[fossil hollow]

eh, its mild power word kill

[gray garden]

that he can do with muti attack

[fossil hollow]

getting hit with 58 avg damage + chance of insta death or take another 60 is insane

[gray garden]

DEATH

[fossil hollow]

one day ill have a reason to use a Solar. All my parties are too "good"

[tall delta]

im playing a 13th level charater with 11 shadow monk 1 fighter and 1 rouge for backstory reasons, what feats should i look into besides tavern brawler and grappler. using 2024 rules

[gray garden]

2024 stat blocks are lowkey crazy ngl

[fossil hollow]

... maybe a fallen one?

[gray garden]

like for assassian getting a +11 to int

[hot marlin]

Solars fall. And even non-fallen solars can find themselves opposing a good party

[woven flint]

Hey, Descent into Avernus MIGHT be your most horribly aligned party, don't worry

[fossil hollow]

fair nough. Ill change the damage to necrotic, then reduce its fly speed to 60, and we're gucchi... wheres the best place to send a fallen solar...

[prime pewter]

Guys is it too cliche to have a Wild West inspired warlock have made a Pact with a minor Demon Lord known as the Lord of all Rattlesnakes?

[fossil hollow]

nah

[gray garden]

it is one of the fastest creatures in dnd with a fly speed of 150ft

[fossil hollow]

Theres gotta be at least one snake demon lord

[woven flint]

Of course not lol
Play what you want even if It would be Cliche, though

[fossil hollow]

and theres no extensive list of every demonlord

[prime pewter]

Wait yea

[buoyant oar]

Get a Solar of a God of Justice like Tyr. Mistaking Justice and vengeance.

[prime pewter]

Ngl I just made em up

[fossil hollow]

so many are born and killed in the abyss, that it can just b plausible

[prime pewter]

Wait yea

He could be like

A Marlith (idk if that's how its spelled) who ascended to demonlordhood

[fossil hollow]

theres also an infinite amount of layers in the abyss

[prime pewter]

This guy is also a reborn!! Undead Cowboys for the win!!

[fossil hollow]

or at least innumerable

[halcyon bison]

I think there’s probably not actually infinite layers, they just haven’t gone deep enough

[woven flint]

Mind you, it doesn't have to BE a Demon Lord, a Maralith is powerful enough to be a Patron anyway

[buoyant oar]

Also need more lore on the Celestial Hebdomad the equivalent of Archdevils for Angels.

[woven flint]

Hell, your Patron doesn't even HAVE to be a powerful being

[halcyon bison]

My patron is John from down the street

[woven flint]

Next Warlock I'm making is probably gonna have an Imp Patron lol

[buoyant oar]

More like "My patron is not Zariel. It is the conniving Ice Devil in her service."

[gray garden]

I’ve been wondering the abyss is infinite how does the demogorogon just chill out the bottom

[woven flint]

My Patron is an IMP of Asmodeus

Clearly the most powerful of imps

[buoyant oar]

He does not chill at the bottom his layer is the 88th

[gray garden]

I still think it’s strange that imps and bone devils are on the same tier

[gray garden]

Really?

Oh huh

[fossil hollow]

yeah, theres more than 88 layers

[gray garden]

The more you know

Isn’t he like the ruler of the abyss (sorta)

[fossil hollow]

Self proclaimed Prince for now yeah

[woven flint]

Not to say getting to Demogorgon would be easy, but he's only 88 layers down

[fossil hollow]

just means he has more influence and power compared to other individuals

[gray garden]

I mean as ruler as you can get in the abyss

[woven flint]

Also, demons don't typically follow a Hierarchy, every Demon Prince is just a Self-proclaimed one

[gray garden]

Ah i see

[buoyant oar]

If any creature is at the bottom it is Tharizdun. For his imprisonment created the abyss.

[hot marlin]

None may rule the Abyss. The prince is not the one that rules, it is one whose power is recognized as above others. This does not mean the others are inferior, this just means the Prince will be savagely killed by the others.

[reef tundra]

Does the abyss have the same rule as hell? Where the only way to get to a specific layer is to start at layer 1 and work your way down?

[fossil hollow]

forgot he created it

[woven flint]

They're still incredibly powerful, but the weakness of Denons is disarray and the unwillingness to function with others

[gray garden]

Not at all

[fossil hollow]

not exactly. They might be described as layers, but like anything in the abyss, theres no order nor consistency

[gray garden]

Demons are far to chaotic to follow any sort of rule

[hot marlin]

Oh, any singular demon may have their own rules.

[reef tundra]

Ah Oki, just checking

[hot marlin]

But taken as a group, you will find no agreement.

[gray garden]

Yeah we just don’t know what those rules are because again chaotic

Chaotic follows no set rules they do what they want in the moment

[woven flint]

Also, most of the Demon Lords want to kill eachother
Moreso than Devils want to usurp eachother

[hot marlin]

That is not quite true.

[fossil hollow]

the way it works is the strong rule

[gray garden]

You get what I mean

[woven flint]

Most. Not all

[gray garden]

There’s actually an image of all the demon lords meeting up which is cool

[hot marlin]

It is the way it works everywhere. Strength simply takes many forms

[fossil hollow]

fair nough

[hot marlin]

The abyss is simply more honest.

[woven flint]

Graz'zt is probably one of, if not THE most reasonable of the Demon Lords, but he still relishes in suffering and is still a demon

[fossil hollow]

and thats saying something

[hot marlin]

Do you not relish in suffering Tokii?

[woven flint]

:3

[gray garden]

I do

[hot marlin]

All life requires the suffering of other lives.

[woven flint]

I can't wait for us to finally play in a Campaign together, Incubus 👀

[fossil hollow]

the only thing suffering is going to be us when i hit you all with Blackmail from the Fists

[gray garden]

I can’t wait to watch 👁️

[buoyant oar]

Graz'zt is reasonable to the point there is a theory he was actually a devil who served asmodeus and betrayed him.

[hot marlin]

The lioness relishes in the suffering of the zebra as her fangs enter his throat. And humans need the suffering of other humans, and quite a few other beasts.

[gray garden]

I’m always watching

Seeing dms play dnd is something else

Especially when it’s a forever dm

[hot marlin]

Simply, demons are creatures of sensitivity. They look at the being who suffers because of them and acknowledge the suffering they inflict. Does that not make them better than humans who rationalize and excuse and close their eyes?

[woven flint]

I thought of a funny thing

What if my Bugbear character was forced into an Arranged marriage with an Elf...
The wife hates me comments would be funnier than if it was just an ogre

[fossil hollow]

you are not escaping the fiend allegations

[umbral girder]

Last I checked the Abyss has a dude literally called the Prince of Lies

[buoyant oar]

Give me Baatezu, Tanar'ri, or Yuggoloths any day over fey.

[hot marlin]

The fact that he calls himself Prince of Lies is proof that the abyss is more honest than anywhere else. Even the liars there admit they are liars!

[woven flint]

Ti , thoughts on my Bugbear being in an Arranged marriage with an Elvish lady then becoming a Bounty Hunter to stay away from home as much as possible? Lol

[valid geyser]

Might be an exonym, but I haven’t seen him deny the allegations

[fossil hollow]

PFFFT

[hot marlin]

Can you say the same of your politicians?

[fossil hollow]

Minthar-

[hot marlin]

Of course not. Therefore: Vote Fraz 2026

[woven flint]

NO.

[crimson gulch]

evil mage used planar binding, sicks it on you

[valid geyser]

He was wrongfully imprisoned in castle greyhawk

[fossil hollow]

... i have to thank your evil and genius DM mind for this

[fossil hollow]

even more reason to vote for him

[hot marlin]

A political prisoner unjustly persecuted by tyrannical power, a freedom fighter! The Nelson Mandella of D&D!

[buoyant oar]

Well while good Fraz-Urb'luu is the prince of lies. And he is honest about it. He doesn't send his agents to the material plane like. "Ayo-yo-yo- What's up Torbles, its me the lying guy."

[crimson gulch]

i bought the whole monstermanual, so i use the whole thing one way or another

[woven flint]

Out of all the types of Elves, I rather marry a Wood Elf
At least they enjoy nature as much as I do 😭

[fossil hollow]

Someone from the Grove?

[woven flint]

Hell yeah

[fossil hollow]

the monkey paw curls

[woven flint]

Druid wife/husband

[fossil hollow]

nah, theyre gonna be a ranger

[severe rampart]

You mean, Mandela? right? haha... that's so weird... I remember it was spelled Mandela...

[valid geyser]

I think we need more legal channels for fiend immigration to the material plane

[woven flint]

No!
I'm the Ranger in the relationship!
points at my characters class

[fossil hollow]

the last thing i need is more contractors entering the construction industry

[fossil hollow]

The monkey paw has curled

[woven flint]

STOP THAT

[valid geyser]

Yeah it would probably involve my dungeon treasure being taxed to get that gate spell built

[fossil hollow]

and also under the table dealins

[buoyant oar]

If you want more devils contact Tymanther, they summoned an army of them to Faerûn. But tbh. They still lost and their homeland was obliterated. Sucks to suck dragonborn.

[fossil hollow]

even better, she'll be a Scout Captain

[woven flint]

Ah, shit, I'm gonna have to come up with more lore about my Bugbears Wood Elf wife because she's eventually gonna be plot relevant 😔

[buoyant oar]

You want demons. Your boy, Gilgeam has you covered.

[fossil hollow]

yesss

[woven flint]

Her name..
Will be Thalia

Bogey and Thalia

[fossil hollow]

Thalia Grace?

[woven flint]

NO!!!
700 years dungeon for ye.

[fossil hollow]

got a problem with punk?

[severe rampart]

God, I'm a bit nervous to DM my first oneshot

[woven flint]

I got a problem with the name GRACE on my Elf wife, feels a bit too on the nose!!!

[fossil hollow]

i had a wood elf paladin named Parthenon Grace lmao

[woven flint]

Thalia ... Roseberry?

[fiery perch]

Imagine a 5 man party of a paladin, 3 clerics and a divine soul sorcerer

[woven flint]

Rosemary

[fossil hollow]

The A Men?

[woven flint]

Thalia Rosemary, that's her name, boom, lore done

[slender escarp]

Amazing

[fossil hollow]

gonna give her Grace as a nickname /hj

[woven flint]

M'AIQ?!

[slender escarp]

No?

[fiery perch]

Sort of

[woven flint]

M'aiq the liar is my husband.
I love him

[halcyon bison]

M’aiq you’re my hero

[slender escarp]

Im not not a liar

[dusk hatch]

thats what a liar would say

[fossil hollow]

anyway, i need you to pick one:

• Anger
• Greed
• Jealousy
• Pride
• Betrayal
• Deceit
• Harm
• Murder
• Oppression

[severe rampart]

Greed

[woven flint]

Hmmm, for Bogey?

[slender escarp]

Deceit

[sacred wigeon]

Harm me please

[fossil hollow]

eyo

[dusk hatch]

murder is there and u guys choosing anything else? tch tch tch

[severe rampart]

Woah, at least buy me dinner first

[fossil hollow]

its too early for this

[sacred wigeon]

HARM IS RIGHT THERE

[woven flint]

If I had to associate Bogey with one..
It'd probably be Jealousy or Greed

[fossil hollow]

monkey paw balls up into a fist

[woven flint]

Stop with the DAMN MONKEY PAW!

[fossil hollow]

uncurls the pointer and middle finger

[feral fulcrum]

Deploys the Giant Ape

[halcyon bison]

I wish for the rest of the monkey

[woven flint]

I'll break them.

[fossil hollow]

bang

never expected the monkey paw finger gun

[woven flint]

But, yeah, I think I'll associate Bogey with Envy

[fossil hollow]

never... satisfied with what they have... chuckle

[woven flint]

Greed and Envy go pretty Hand-in-Hand, yeah?

[proper forum]

These are more than 7

[fossil hollow]

those are not supposed to be the Seven Deadly Frames Sins

[proper forum]

Are they ways to traumatize flesh out your character?

[woven flint]

Descent into Avernus things

[stiff rock]

in general? yes, lots

[fossil hollow]

y e s

[proper forum]

I said "are they" not "are there". I am aware of all of them, and regularly use them. That's right. No character is safe from me.

[stiff rock]

oh my bad lol

can't read properly today

[proper forum]

No worries

[jovial shadow]

Just an FYI we aren't supposed to use Strikethroughs on here because they affect those who depend on word to speech. Or something to that effect.

[limber reef]

Hello, chat

[inland spire]

Hello, 2D.

[buoyant oar]

When your players who were introduced to the Forgotten Realms through your games tell you they recognized nearly everything in BG3 and NWN 2 Enhanced Edition because of how faithful you are to the Lore of the setting. Probably the best compliment I have gotten while DMing.

[crimson gulch]

Nice! i had the same thing happen to me after BG3 came out and my one buddy that played it was like, so when you said what the vibe was in avernus and the city and what mindflayers were all about you nailed it

[buoyant oar]

It is one thing to have them recognize surface things like Lathander. It is another thing for them to recognize Imaskari architecture, or the nature of telthori spirits.

It was a pride moment. Especially when they came to my tables they had the mantra of FR sucks and is boring reddit view.

[hot marlin]

Which I assume is the translation of her elven name. What is it like in elvish?

[crimson gulch]

oh thats weird, i have never had anyone at my games come to the table with FR sucks, i would probobly have just pointed them to the door if that were the case

[hot marlin]

You're lucky. I've been dealing with lack of curiosity about the setting for a while

I'm not as big an expert in FR as you are, but damn. I learn the settings the games I play take place in.

[meager fractal]

So rangers, how do we fix them?

[buoyant oar]

I also have 25+ years to lean on. My first non picture novel was Making of a Mage lol

[hot marlin]

Though to be honest, the only reason I would recognize Imaskari architecture and the nature of telthori spirits is thanks to Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer

[crimson gulch]

run them RAW, they are great as is

[buoyant oar]

It is where I got 80% of my descriptions from. 😉

[hot marlin]

2014: Don't need to be fixed, second strongest martial after paladin
2024: Don't need to be fixed

[fossil hollow]

Trying to learn Eberron lore rn for a campaign im planning

[limber reef]

How did you guys get into D&D?

[fossil hollow]

its been a nice rabbit hole

[fossil hollow]

Someone brought the 2014 PHB to youth group, and one of the leaders offered to run

[meager fractal]

Found a box of hexcrawl stuff and dice and minis in my uncle's closet in the 90s. Been playing ever since.

[crimson gulch]

1995, watch a freinds older brother play, 1999 play baulders gate, 2001 buy a players handbook, 2001 to 2021 read 150 DND novels, 2022 start playing it actually

[limber reef]

Jeez, some of you guys have been into it for ages

[hot marlin]

One day I played Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines after learning it was considered by a certain website to be the 99th best RPG in history (that top was nonsense, they put Skyrim in number 1). I decided to download VTM books and run a game, having never played a TTRPG before. A year later, my group wanted to try D&D.

[fossil hollow]

oh this was like, 6 years ago

[limber reef]

I just started playing myself 2 years ago

[karmic pendant]

Watching live plays mostly

[crimson gulch]

and now running DND games is my Full time job

[hot marlin]

And here I was, running 3.5. Then we moved on to Pathfinder which was essentially a better version of 3.5. Then moved on to 5e.

I still run some VTM, Shadowrun, 40K RPGs from time to time.

Oh and Exalted.

I took a big break from D&D/Pathfinder before 5e came out. During that period, I ran a large amount of other games.

[hidden spindle]

You play them straight

[crimson gulch]

im down to 7 active campaigns now though as i Wrapped my learn to play campaign and one of my home games officaly

[hot marlin]

VTM is still my favourite RPG, to be honest. I like it more than D&D. I tend to be attracted to darker, more realistic ambiances. Which may also explain my love for A Song of Ice and Fire.

[naive cedar]

my parents

[severe rampart]

hosting a oneshot solo adventure for my DM because he needs a break

[naive cedar]

I need to play vtm lol I love bloodlines

[worn lagoon]

bg3

[hot marlin]

It's the whole "Vampires still need to launder their money because the IRS is more likely to get them than vampire hunters" thing that I like. You can't really have that in D&D, you know?

The whole... Down to earth thing.

[jovial shadow]

That implies something is wrong with them. What needs fixing specifically?

[severe rampart]

oh no my other DM quick hide!

[fossil hollow]

.. i feel like thats a plot point in Eberron

[naive cedar]

Or the whole “if you drink rhe blood of someone taking ibuprofen you get the effects of it” system

[worn lagoon]

my most used dnd character has a wizard dad who frequently teleports his entire tower to avoid paying taxes

[hot marlin]

Well, I've played some D&D games that were more down to earth. In the sense that succession laws, noble privileges and wars were intrinsic parts of the setting.

[worn lagoon]

archmage azmur of the blinking spire, master conjurer (tax evader)

[uncut zenith]

Yeah, they still gotta hide in plain sight

[limber reef]

So, how do I find people who are hosting games here?

[naive cedar]

I also just love vampires

[fossil hollow]

#find-a-game

Anyway, i need more Celestials to Planar Bind besides a Solar, thoughts?

[limber reef]

Thanks

[naive cedar]

Is bloodlines 2 really that bad btw?

[hot marlin]

Nah.

[naive cedar]

I’m going to wait a while to check it out

[severe rampart]

y'all... any chance a level 4 character can solo a manticore? my DM is stubborn and is refusing my offer to let him be level 5

[hot marlin]

I'll explain in #non-dnd-topics if you want

[naive cedar]

Oh yeah lol my bad. Sure thing!

[glossy otter]

Say, I've got to ask. Has anyone ever had that conflict of having a few ideas for a campaign but you're unsure of which one to do?

[humble cairn]

Ranger itself is fine, Hunter's Mark could use some work but honestly the class is still fine even if you never use Hunter's Mark.

[buoyant oar]

Started Playing and DMing in kindergarten with the Holmes set. Parents and older brothers played 1e and 0e.

[limber reef]

In Kindergarten?!

How?

[potent vector]

I made a rework, have a few notes

[buoyant oar]

Very poorly. Those games were barely more than pretend with dice.

[potent vector]

Also before someone says it, yes, Ranger does have a issue, they have no niche. There's nothing they do another class can't do better

[buoyant oar]

Done with family, who were very supportive of the game and craft. First Real game I ran was at 7.

[buoyant oar]

Exploration?

[potent vector]

Skill monkey Rogue out skills anything they have

[humble cairn]

You missed "before anyone says it" by like five comments.

[meager fractal]

Bard even more so.

[potent vector]

IC now lol

[limber reef]

I didn’t know people started playing super young

[crimson gulch]

sphinx

[fossil hollow]

i forgot theyre celestials now

[humble cairn]

I'm playing a 2024 Beast Master and I definitely feel unique in my contributions to the party.

[potent vector]

Like?

[buoyant oar]

I don't see how rogue skill monkey beats ranger in exploration.

[potent vector]

A wizard that uses summon spells can keep up with whatever you dish out

[meager fractal]

they lack the versatility and power of other classes I've noticed. Particularly other spellcasters. And I know i'm not the only one either because it's a pretty common point of discussion here.

[fossil hollow]

do note its a 2024 campaign

[blissful ibex]

small species druid does fairly well c:

[buoyant oar]

Wizards can't keep up infinity, they are held down by spell slots.

[potent vector]

Exploration leans heavily on skill checks, which Rogues have more of and have better specialization of the ones they do have.

[potent vector]

If you're talking about dungeon crawling, Rogues aren't holed up by lots of time without a long rest either

[valid geyser]

I agree with the major argument, but I think there are a lot of cases where you only need to be good at something once in a specific adventuring day
Like, you’re more likely to have one stealth section than you are with like, four with an hour inbetween them, so pass without trace is likely gonna be very useful for the more common single scenario

[potent vector]

Also, that helps, but is even tied to subclass, and do I have to explain why strong subclasses that are needed fix the class being weak is bad?

[humble cairn]

I mean so I feel like I was going to answer you, but it sounds like you had already made up your mind?

[potent vector]

No, I'm open to more takes on it, I just rly don't see how anyone can say Ranger is better at anything

[humble cairn]

In actual play, I'm having fun and don't feel like I'm being made obsolete or outclassed.

[valid geyser]

I think my issue with ranger is lack of uniqueness, mostly in terms of class features
I think it’s solid mechanically, but when a lot of your class features are things not really exclusive to you, especially compared to paladins who have a lot of unique game changing features, doesn’t set the best precedent

[hidden spindle]

I think the best part of Ranger is Hunter's Mark

[humble cairn]

I mean I also have only played Beast Master, enjoying the companion mechanics, which are fairly unique.

[valid geyser]

I’m mostly thinking base class.
Expertise is shared with rogues, speed bonuses, extra languages, etc are viable via feats

Like paladins have their aura, lay on hands, and multiple others. I think it’s hard to argue they have that much of an equivalent

[potent vector]

. . . I should mention you're talking Abt a level one spell, but I agree it is the closest they have to a direction for it. Why it upset me they didn't make it a feature not tied to spell and made the changes that feature made to it so inconsequential. . .

[buoyant oar]

Rangers are to the Paladin what Druids are to the Cleric.

[hidden spindle]

Actually. The best way to fix them is borrow the original '14's 1st level features (pre-Tasha)

[humble cairn]

Rangers also have a unique spell list of gishy spells, not unlike the Smite spells of Paladin.

[empty thicket]

yeah, kinda said it before.
Ranger is the light hybrid while Paladin is the heavy hybrid

[potent vector]

Yeah, 2024e was ironically two steps forward, one step back

[valid geyser]

Ok, that’s still not really what I’m arguing

[hidden spindle]

One step forward, two steps back

[valid geyser]

I just feel like a couple cool unique class features would make them feel a lot better

[humble cairn]

Ehh .. Favored Enemy was badly designed, I gave it the ole college try and even with a DM who was trying to help, it led to a negative gameplay loop.

[uncut zenith]

Yeah, Favored Enemy kinda sucked

[empty thicket]

and natural explorer kinda same, because you are forced to yes or yes pick the most common type of terrain

[valid geyser]

Or moving them down levels, the bonus action invis could work well as like a level 6
I’ve also like the idea of complete difficult terrain immunity

[hidden spindle]

But why remove it?

Cause it did no damage?

[blissful ibex]

ye, ranger & druid are more exploration/utility while paladin and cleric are more centered in the combat or social pillars

[humble cairn]

Tasha's Favored Foe was pretty bad. New Favored Enemy is good, what needs a little bit of work is Hunter's Mark itself.

[potent vector]

Definitely. I'm toying with a few, like Tireless doubling your Hit Dice with a pseudo hit die, which would make them much better at dungeon crawling (lot of out of combat healing, but definitely isn't as strong in a game with lots of Long rest).

[crimson gulch]

because of the implication of predujuce against specific humanoid types

[uncut zenith]

The issue I had with Favored Enemy is that as a DM I had to go out of my way to include more creatures of the Favored Enemy’s chosen monster type to make the Ranger shine, but it often felt kinda forced.

[humble cairn]

Yes that was one thing problematic about it.

[empty thicket]

said it before, should be turned into a cantrip and scale the force damage per level.

[valid geyser]

Yeah also I feel like hunters mark isn’t treated in the same league as divine smite, since paladins and warlock subs can get hunters mark pretty easily, not to mention it’s close to identical to hex

[hidden spindle]

Hmm.. Never thought of that. Honestly. I always saw it as a bounty hunter

[empty thicket]

or a special feature that the ranger can use to it became a real identity of the class

[humble cairn]

I don't think there's necessarily that easy a fix. Because it was playtested multiple times over the years even before OneD&D.

[buoyant oar]

Rangers are very fine at the table. What a lot of spreadsheet optimizers miss is two things.

1.) how things read is rarely how things actually work in play.

2.) comparing it to other classes is ultimately pointless because your party will never have all of the classes together.

[uncut zenith]

Like if a Ranger’s Favored Enemy was Giants and we’re playing a campaign that doesn’t feature a lot of giants, it feels like either a waste on the Ranger’s part, or like I had to shoehorn giants more frequently

[blissful ibex]

or give a small attack bonus

[crimson gulch]

when i ran the dragonlance campaign, Favored enemy : Dragons really payed out great though i must say

[hidden spindle]

Then don't pick Giant's and talk about the setting with the DM first

[buoyant oar]

Well a ranger player should work with their DM on favored enemy and terrain. If you don't talk to your DM you are inviting a bad time.

[hidden spindle]

Throw me a Giant's Bone

[potent vector]

Issues with these prequisites are that the prior is a hand waive of table dependence that shouldn't affect balancing, and the latter is absolutely relevant when no other class has the same issue

[blissful ibex]

like +1 to attack rolls against the marked creature because the ranger is calling out weak points and like harraying them

[buoyant oar]

If you pick desert as favored terrain and play tomb of Annihilation that's a lack of communication.

[hidden spindle]

Brother knows

[crimson gulch]

sometimes a campaign has a bigger scope than just one area, which can cause issues

[buoyant oar]

If there is more than one type that is fine because you don't need full synergy all of the time.

[hidden spindle]

Communicate with the DM solves 98% of the Ranger's problems

[empty thicket]

Yep, i would love it to either

Be turned into a feature skill and then could be used a lot of times or 2+proficiency and scale the damage. So its competent
Give advantage in attacks if used against the Favored Enemy and disadvantage in the saving throws of that enemy
Or make every subclass change it in some way and work around that idea of teh class, but real changes.

[humble cairn]

A suite of three Expertise is both specific enough to define each Ranger's particular niche and general enough to work without needing DM fiat to throw you a bone.

[buoyant oar]

What balance issues are you facing at the table?

[valid geyser]

I really don’t agree because skills is a thing anyone can be good at.

[buoyant oar]

There is also a difference between the DM throwing a bone and the DM working with you to make your character feel more powerful

[humble cairn]

My comment was comparing old Ranger to new Ranger, not Ranger to other classes.

[valid geyser]

Ah mb

[empty thicket]

If you want to compare ranger to another class, do it with paladin.

[potent vector]

I gave mine a roaming Expertise feature called "Well Traveled" to emphasize the bounty Hunter fantasy without making it too close to Rogue's power in skill checks

[hidden spindle]

Artificer too

[empty thicket]

Told it before with the Caster Vs martial debate, isnt fair to compare them because each side have his own things and schemes

[empty thicket]

artificer is... that is the only class im having a hard time placing it

[halcyon bison]

Artificers are just weird
Not in a bad way though

[empty thicket]

but for now i will call it hybrid most of the time

[humble cairn]

I think the annoying gameplay issue I experienced was with Natural Explorer. It was a semi-Expertise for some thing pertaining to your favored terrain, which had me constantly asking stuff like "well this animal has Forest listed as natural terrain, can I use my doubled Prof on them?", "Is this door made of trees from the forest? Can I use my douvbled prof on them?" etc etc. It wasn't as clearly defined.

[potent vector]

Particularly that Ranger's spells feel like a chain that doesn't make up for the fact I have less powerful main class features. Paladin spells are at least actually good at their niche even if you have a cleric for example, where a Druid basically invalidates your spell list. . .

[blissful ibex]

they're a support half-caster like ranger except instead of martial on the second half it's a crafting class

[buoyant oar]

That has never been my experience at the table with all three of them. Ranger, Paladin and Druid.

Both in 2014 and 2024

[humble cairn]

Ranger has spells not on the Druid list, mainly the weapon enhancement spells like Entangling Strike.

[empty thicket]

So,
Ranger is the light hybrid
Paladin is the heavy hybrid
Artificer is the support hybrid
Warlock would be the caster hybrid?

[potent vector]

Artificer is mostly a caster support class imo, and it does that well.

[hollow stone]

artificer has always sounded fun but i've never like, wanted to

[buoyant oar]

And they get some Weapon Mastery

[humble cairn]

Rangers and Paladins are the default base class gishes.

[pseudo oracle]

Whoops

[blissful ibex]

warlock is a wildcard, it can do basically anything but requires setup/building it properly

[potent vector]

Vro, Entanglement exists, Entangling Strike is a nothing burger

[empty thicket]

yeah, but was told it doenst have lvl 6 or more spells
It can use some close weapons, etc. etc.
Almost same thing happen with ARti

[hidden spindle]

Warlock is a build a bear class

[hollow stone]

yea Warlock is interesting because the Invocations are like, micro-feats

[humble cairn]

1. I don't prefer to be called any variation on "bro" or "dude" if you don't mind
2. The two spells are different enough that they do different things, not to mention that was just an example

[blissful ibex]

it's the foil to bard/rogue which are good at specializing in being generally good where warlock is really good in being specialized in a few things

[potent vector]

I should mention, replacing attacks with cantrips/spells is smth I'm very jealous Gish subclasses get and that the dedicated Gish classes don't.

[hidden spindle]

Or actual feats

[empty thicket]

But yeah, Ranger lack that "identity" at all. Your Feature spell take concentration while there are lots of other options for conc.
The subclasses are either not so good or Gloomstalker is just too op.

[hollow stone]

i know Warlock + Paladin lets you completely discard STR as a focus as a Paladin because of Pact of The Blade

[humble cairn]

I haven't felt that way in played experience at all.

[hidden spindle]

They're the Hunter. They mark their prey. The Ranger!

[hollow stone]

this is true it all depends on what Invocation it is

[empty thicket]

I would say, embrace the hunter mark, add the favored foe//natural explorer but make them better and make the subclasses work with those 3 things at teh same time

[blissful ibex]

bladelock, ranger, paladin, need access to at least a subclass that does this q_q

also druid still only has circle of the Moon for a martial class >.>

[empty thicket]

Either you are a hunter so you can add more favored foes and your hunter mark add a new effect
Or you are a swarmkeeper and you get a buff with the mark that make your swarms do X thing.
etc etc.

[hollow stone]

sometimes you just straight up get a species trait like Devil's Sight being darkvision

[buoyant oar]

Yeah, in play over the course of 5e. Rangers have never had a problem of standing out. In 2014, 2019, and 2024.

Even the Ermergherd Hunter's Mark is largely overblown.

[potent vector]

1. I use Vro as a gender neutral form of bro, and dude is gender neutral term where I come from, but sure friend 👍.
2. They aren't rly imo, the Entangling Strike just feels like a gish encouraging spell so they can do what Druid does without losing the ability attack.

[blissful ibex]

it's funny because they work with wildshape as well
gift of the Depths' and devil's sight are kinda funny to have, sadly the earlier requires warlock 5

[potent vector]

Ermergherd's Hunter's Mark? (Don't know what that is)

[hollow stone]

oh yea also at Level 5 they literally get Extra Attack

[blissful ibex]

counterspell access ain't bad at least

[blissful ibex]

and a 3rd at level 12

[hollow stone]

you can make a mini fighter

[humble cairn]

Combining it with a weapon attack is different, allowing you to use your Masteries and any magical weapons effects. And Rangers also get Entangle, I use it all the time when I need to control multiple enemies, again one of the ways in which they are different.

[potent vector]

But anyway, you say that, but you still haven't given me a solid niche they have?
I don't mean to be pedantic but subclasses accounting for a class identity doesn't mean the class itself has anything that stands out.

[hidden spindle]

They got plenty

[buoyant oar]

So they are the Explorer class. The niche of 5e classes is not and never has been, "This is a thing that I do better than everyone else."

[potent vector]

Weapon Masteries are definitely smth that helped actually, you are right. I just wish they had more. There aren't nearly enough Ranger unique spells that actually earn their keep.

[fossil hollow]

Conjure Barrage has done wonders

[hollow stone]

i'm actually doing an experiment soon where i have a Paladin take Eldritch Adept as a feat to get Pact of The Blade and just dump STR

[humble cairn]

It's HUGE!

[hollow stone]

i'ts(?)

[potent vector]

They originally gave you free uses of it in one of the UA's, which I would have probably loved, but then they scaled Ranger back a ton

Old UA* Capstone was better too . . .

[humble cairn]

Old capstone made you choose between accuracy and damage, New Ranger get's both at once.

[fossil hollow]

we dont talk about the capstone

[humble cairn]

New capstone is still underwhelming, but it is still actually better than the old one.

[halcyon bison]

What was the old one?

[fossil hollow]

you get more damage on your Favored Enenies

• WIS mod damage

[potent vector]

In two different features, way too late

[halcyon bison]

Oh yeah that's really not much is it
Poor ranger :(

[potent vector]

+Wis to damage if you hit, +Wis to attack rolls if you would miss

[humble cairn]

Because they split it up between level 17 and 20. At level 17 you get Adv on your HM target and then at level 20 you get an upgrade to your HM dmg, so every hit instead of once per turn.

[halcyon bison]

Actually that doesn't sound too bad

[fossil hollow]

if you were fighting an enemy you didnt favor, you did nothing

[hollow stone]

shouldn't it have Advantage by default so it feels a little different from Hex, tho?

[halcyon bison]

That does suck
It would be fine if it was all enemies not just favored ones
Still not a super interesting capstone but more than just "you get a bigger damage dice"

[potent vector]

New one is d6 to d10, which you can just roll a one and the buff doesn't matter. The consistency in damage was much higher with the old one.

[humble cairn]

Old one was also once a turn and not every hit.

[hollow stone]

like is it just me or do Hex and Hunter's Mark feel too similar?

[humble cairn]

Which, if you're a Nick/Dual wield Ranger can add up.

[naive cedar]

whats the best gish class/subclass/whatever

[humble cairn]

"Best" isn't a good question.

[hidden spindle]

Obviously, its the Barbarian

[naive cedar]

maybe most popular?

[buoyant oar]

Leaning on the caster side. Bladesong is pretty high up there.

[humble cairn]

Because it depends both on what you want to do and what you personally find fun, making it subjective.

[naive cedar]

lol, wild magic kind of counts

[potent vector]

Still can't believe they buffed it lol

[buoyant oar]

Leaning on stealth. Gloomstalker.

Leaning on physical might. Paladin.

[potent vector]

True, if they didn't add once per turn I think it would have been smth I would've preferred

[hollow stone]

the funniest possible activity is Warlock Fighter multiclass so you can coerce people into giving you better equipment and not worry about your STR and just rely on DEX

[humble cairn]

No, I don't think it's more. The new one is better, even if it's still underwhelming.

[minor cargo]

In 2023, D&D Beyond released some stats about the popularity of classes. It doesn't answer your question directly, but might provide some fun insight. ✌️

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1648-2023-unrolled-a-look-back-at-a-year-of-adventure

[halcyon bison]

More interesting I mean

[naive cedar]

very interesting. thank you

[halcyon bison]

"You get a better damage die" is never a interesting feature
Sometimes necessary, but about as generic as it gets

[potent vector]

Artificer being so low surprises me

[humble cairn]

But ... how? What makes it more interesting? One adds a flat number once a turn, the other increases the die size, both are just numerical increases in damage.

[hollow stone]

i bought Very Rare +2 Halfplate off a guy for 110 gold

[naive cedar]

it doesnt surprise me

artificer is kinda weird. i like it now but it seemed odd to me at first

[humble cairn]

It's not in the PHB, so accessibility is an issue.

[naive cedar]

im also old and took a while to get used to warlock lol

[potent vector]

Imo the other was more interesting* because you don't just keep one thing (the d10 always rolls a d10), instead it feels like you're hoping for a good roll to deal more damage or using the Wis mod to save you from a miss. Even makes Advantage more exciting because a better roll can mean more damage

[halcyon bison]

It also helps you be more accurate
Which is something I guess
I'm not like blown away "wow this is such a cool and unique feature" but I still think it's more interesting than one spell you might not want to use does a bit more damage

[naive cedar]

what i am surprised at is how popular barbarian is, but im not a big barbarian fan

[humble cairn]

Yeah new Ranger gets the accuracy as well as the damage, whereas old Ranger had to choose one or the other. And new Ranger can apply it to any enemy, not just a few types they picked way back at level 1.

Am I saying the new capstone is interesting at all? Not a bit.

[halcyon bison]

The new capstone doesn't help with accuracy at all
I agree it's dumb that it didn't apply to all enemies

[humble cairn]

But, it works better mechanically.

[humble cairn]

No, but the level 17 feature does, and there wasn't a level 17 feature before, so it's an addition.

[potent vector]

They mean that the feature got split, which I don't agree with since it means less features for only slightly more value.

[humble cairn]

It didn't eat up any more feature budget because they added it to level 17 which didn't have a feature before.

[halcyon bison]

I wasn't talking about the level 17 feature, and I also didn't know that wasn't in UA

[potent vector]

I'm saying adding a feature there and keeping the old capstone (maybe no once per turn rule) would have been better.

[humble cairn]

I know, but I'm telling you that the functions of the old Ranger capstone are all still there, they just moved part of it to level 17 and now the accuracy and damage can apply at the same time instead of having to choose between them.

[halcyon bison]

I've been talking from a perspective of "you either get the UA capstone or the current one, and nothing else changes" so the level 17 feature isn't relevant

[potent vector]

NGL, now that you phrase it like that I'm realizing that would actually be pretty nice

I literally just mentioned Advantage is more exciting with that other capstone, so getting adv on Marked target would actually be cool

That was pessimistic of me srry

[halcyon bison]

Yeah, and you could combine with archery fighting style and be scary accurate

[humble cairn]

I am interested enough to talk about the difference between old and new Ranger, but I can't be bothered to try and homebrew stuff.

[halcyon bison]

+x to hit is suprisingly rare in D&D other than magic weapons

[humble cairn]

That's on purpose, part of the Bounded Accuracy(?) philosophy.

[potent vector]

Ye, totally fine. I particularly want to know how people feel Abt official stuff so ik pain points and things people think are non-issues

[livid echo]

Have exciting news I just wrapped up a DnD 101 introductory campaign (I was sole survivor) and I am joining an actual ongoing campaign this Sunday the 1st

I just need to take a day or 2 think what kind of character to play

The campaign is in a homebrewed setting and the dm says it’s designed around character arcs rather than a set story and you can play pretty much any kind of character and dm will work whatever backstory you have into campaign

[halcyon bison]

Fair enough, I haven't read the whole UA I'm just going off what people told me the capstone feature is but I don't know anything about the rest, hence why I'm not advocating for it to be entirely the UA version

[potent vector]

Anything in mind for Races, classes, or just general stories?

[humble cairn]

I haven't been talking about the UA at all?

[livid echo]

Well my 101 was a halfling bard I may make another since it’s what I’m familiar with and had an absolute blast doing

Only difference is the dm said I should mix in more damage attacks and less support abilities (I was like 80% support and dm said it should have been reverse more damage with just a little bit of support)

[halcyon bison]

Old capstone I mean
Someone mentioned UA and I thought that's what it was
In that case yes, I prefer 2024 ranger over the old version but only barely

That makes much more sense now

[potent vector]

I was just speaking on Ranger in general and mentioned Old UA Capstone was more interesting

[steel hawk]

Hi. I want to ask. Which subclass of the monk is the strongest?

[hollow stone]

Rangers should have multiple concentrations for their spells if that's going to be most of them

[humble cairn]

That's ... sigh ... that's a really big sledgehammer you're taking to balance issues.

[livid echo]

Just need to think up a good backstory my 101 was very simple backstory my bard won a talent show as a musician and decided to venture out from his small farmland village to make his fortune

[halcyon forum]

there is no clear answer, the current monks are mostly well balanced. I personally would put the elements monk slightly above the others

[halcyon bison]

Anyways I'm just going to go watch youtube videos
Fare thee well

[meager fractal]

Mercy and Open Hand are both excellent. The other two are good but...less so

[halcyon bison]

Or is it "fare ye well"
I don't know
Bye

[hollow stone]

i have only been saying it about Rangers tbf

[potent vector]

Tbh, ye, I'm not sure I can full send that either, but HM being Concentration does hurt the already unimpressive spell list

[halcyon forum]

interesting, I would both the others above mercy and open hand

[hollow stone]

just give them a second one at like 11th level or some time late

[humble cairn]

Yes, but that's like a really huge change you're making which would likely cause a whole lot of other problems.

[jovial shadow]

Difficult to say, but I have found the Warrior of Shadow to be especially proficient in dealing damage and getting out of trouble, as you gain levels. Especially if the enemy can't see in magical darkness

[halcyon forum]

elements with reach, early damage type selection, and then flight. Shadow monk with its incredible mobility and utility spells.

[steel hawk]

But at level 3, a Mercy Monk can only heal. Why waste 1k on necrotic damage when you have flurry of blows?

[humble cairn]

They've playtested non-concentration Hunter's Mark like three or four times over the years and it's never playtested well.

[hidden spindle]

The one that got rewritten out of existence for its ultimate-ness: Four Elements Monk

[halcyon forum]

the necrotic damage is actually more damage than flurry per focus/ki

[potent vector]

Maybe the age old "no Concentration on Hunter's Mark" solution, but I can assure you double Concentration is stronger than you must think.

[halcyon forum]

they never playtested it at later levels only

[potent vector]

As a feature later on or base?

[hollow stone]

like even with Ranger spells?

[humble cairn]

I don't store playtest results in my memory, sorry.

[potent vector]

Yes

[humble cairn]

Yes, you're suggesting something huge and problem causing.

[hollow stone]

okei then

[potent vector]

HM being no concentration base is busted, but as a later feature do you can't multiclass abuse it well/when it's more in line with power spikes it shouldn't be that bad.

Alright, we've been at this for a bit, an interesting question:

Do y'all think Casters should be inherently stronger than Martials?

And where do half caster lie on that line?

[hidden spindle]

With the way Ranger's are designed with HM, its nice to forego WIS & Expertise an INT or CHA skill.

[meager fractal]

No.

I don't think so at all

[hollow stone]

i mean like, i don't think they should be stronger, but not by nerfing casters, by buffing martials, like spreading Expertise among more of them

like afaik only Rangers and Rogues have expertise at all

[jovial shadow]

What's the max damage a caster can do without optimizing or adding level tree abilities?

[potent vector]

So, the argument I've gotten from this is that magic is an inherently stronger mechanic. And so, unless casters get less base class features, Martials would individually need as many mechanics they can make use of that casters can't. Which is hard when casters can make use of most of them.

[stark arch]

use spells that do damage also on failed saving throw atleast your spell slot doest go to waste when you mis

[hollow stone]

actually another really cool thing that was kinda forgotten and left to one subclass was the Maneuvers from BM, i'd love to see more of those

[meager fractal]

If you run it at the recommended encounters per rest the game works fine with minimal balance issues.

[potent vector]

I don't think I have the correct answer, but Magic Missile + Hex nets you 4d4 + 4 force damage and 4d6 Necrotic, and a BA follow-up Sorcererous burst adds another d8 +d6 to that. At level 3.

[halcyon forum]

magic missle doesnt work with hex

[hidden spindle]

Hex? Magic Missile don't work with it

[meager fractal]

Hex specifies attack

so magic missile wouldn't work with it

[potent vector]

Right, thinking of Warlock Hex (and you said no features mb)

[steel hawk]

Do you use Monk Way of Mercy’s Hand of Harm ability after you hit, or do you spend ki before attacking?

[halcyon bison]

Scorching ray is what you want for that

[halcyon forum]

other games have solved this. partially, it does mean spells got nerfed a but mostly it can be done if you let late level martials be sort of demigods

[halcyon forum]

after a hit

[potent vector]

This does work ye.

[steel hawk]

Thank you. So, the Hand of Harm can be more reliable than a flurry of blows against enemies with high armor class?

[halcyon forum]

with almost every armor class really

[hollow stone]

in a hypothetical 6e that won't happen yet it'd be cool to see the martials have unique Maneuver lists based off of things like the other 3 stats like CON, DEX, and STR while the Gish and Casters get their spells

[potent vector]

Not rly forgotten, Weapon Masteries seem to be their attempt to bring them to other martials

[jovial shadow]

What does something like Fireball max out for a Wizard? 14d6?

[halcyon forum]

think of this scenario:
two identical monks, one spends 1 focus every turn to make flurry, othe other 1 focus to use hand of harm.

hand of harm happens every turn you hit at least once, the extra unarmed strike from flurry has a pretty decent chance to miss

[potent vector]

8d6 per target base. So they are realistically getting 2 to 3x the value because martials lack AOE.

[severe rampart]

never let your players have fun, my players bought soap earlier, and now somehow they're cheesing the dungeon with this regular soap

[steel hawk]

Yes, in this regard he is better

[worn lagoon]

Absolute cinema (you are a based dm for letting them)

I am a massive supporter of rule of funny

[hollow stone]

oh yea don't Martials only have like, Cleave for their AOE?

[potent vector]

One target once per turn, max 7 damage that can't be increased.

That Dex characters can't benefit from. This is niche at best.

[severe rampart]

I'm punishing him by solving riddles he knows but his character doesn't, so he has to keep making intelligence throws

[hollow stone]

yea it sucks and that's like, all they got lmao

[halcyon forum]

elements monk has an okayish AoE

[hollow stone]

idk give a random martial an attack where they just spin like a beyblade with a longsword

[meager fractal]

That's kinda cleave weapon mastery

[potent vector]

Yeah, but relying on subclasses fixes the issue for those subclasses, not anyone else

[halcyon forum]

there should be more martial aoe no doubt

[potent vector]

Hunter Ranger gets a bit with Splash Hunter's Mark.

[halcyon forum]

whirlwind strike and volley were really cool abilities

[halcyon forum]

dont remind me of hunter, oh how they massacred my boy

[potent vector]

Annoyed me they gave SWS to Wizard. They did not need that . . .

[hidden spindle]

Now if only the Wizard made Scrolls of Steel Wind Strike for the Ranger

[valid geyser]

i think id be equally annoyed if it was a ranger exclusive 5th level spell, since it would only ever see play in tier 4 games, which would probably not be all that amazing by that point

im already annoyed with swift quiver in that regard

[potent vector]

But the fact you have to see Wizards have the option get it 8 level earlier while it's still decent is a bigger slap to the face

[main maple]

I SMITE YOU

[halcyon forum]

if martials just got a similar non magical move early tier 3, then it wouldnt be an issue

[potent vector]

Aaaaaaaghhghgggh!!

[hidden spindle]

Swift Quiver can be Enspelled

[valid geyser]

valid, but I guess I'm mostly concerned with being able to see the spell in action

[potent vector]

Ack. Class started. Back in an hour if anyone cares lol.

[valid geyser]

to craft an item that casts a spell, you do have to be able to cast it yourself so theres still the issue of waiting until level 17

[hidden spindle]

Remember when Bards could pick it up

[valid geyser]

it was practically a bard spell in 2014 yeah

[severe rampart]

Optimizers terrify me, my DM who I'm hosting a oneshot for nearly one-shot this boss I had set up for him 😭

[woven flint]

War Cleric also gets Steel Wind Strike

[main maple]

Why do bards always getting it in with someone

[woven flint]

...what?

[hidden spindle]

You just up the hit points

[severe rampart]

he left this thing at 4 hp

he dealt 67 damage at once as a ranger

[crimson gulch]

yep, sounds like some ranger stuff to me

[woven flint]

I don't like the idea of just adding HP to a big monster that the party is fighting
Just have like a contingency or something

[hidden spindle]

That's why we have screens

And phase 2

[crimson gulch]

i dont fudge HP either, thats some bad vibes for me

[severe rampart]

yep

[hidden spindle]

Whose to say its fudging? It was already at max HP.

[woven flint]

Adding HP to a monster that the party is actively fighting or about to fight is fudging

[crimson gulch]

if you change the total after you roll initative thats my line in the sand for calling it fudging

[hidden spindle]

Phase 2 to me

[woven flint]

It's not always bad, but it does feel a tad bit unfair to make the party waste more resources on something they're about to kill

I get if it's like... a final fight, but still lol

[hidden spindle]

Then that's fair. I would be guilty of having done so by the nature of having 3 hp values. Rolled, average, & max.

[woven flint]

At the very minimum, I feel a stage two should have SOMETHING weaker about them
Maybe less AC because the party has already shred through their defenses enough to kill it once

[valid geyser]

just like all fudging, its "morality" is entirely based on how strongly someone believes that the luck of the dice is the final arbitrator of descisions at the table

[crimson gulch]

you pick that when you build the encounter, you should know how much damage your players can dish out

in general i take max hp when i have more than 4 players

[hidden spindle]

I do but a straight numbers game is just statistics.

It was more for how the table is feeling.

I mean sometimes, some creatures are just a "hit" to down.

[severe rampart]

this optimizer is insane

well I got what I wanted out of it!

I learned what to change about the oneshot and to balance the manticore

[crimson gulch]

yeah a forever dm can really let lose when you put them in the players seat.
last time one of my players did a one shot i rebuilt my Tabaxi Fighter and had
Vicious Longbow with +3 arrow, +14 to hit 1d8+2d6+15 damage and with action surge that was Killer in one round to his monster

[severe rampart]

you guys are insane

also lesson learned, never give the party a very random item, because they WILL abuse it

[halcyon forum]

giving out vicious weapons is certainly a newbie DM mistake lol

[severe rampart]

I gave them soap and they cheesed the dungeon.

[halcyon forum]

I feel like that only works on a very specific weird kind of dungeon?

[severe rampart]

no,no, there was stairs, they rubbed the soap on the stairs with water and the monsters had a hard time getting up (The monsters relied on sound)

[halcyon forum]

ah see, that's what I meant with specific.

[severe rampart]

I don't think stairs is a very rare thing

[main maple]

How’s everyone’s campaign going

[halcyon forum]

monsters relying on sound are

[severe rampart]

lets see... Descent into Avernus and Dragons of Stormwreck Isle are doing good

[severe rampart]

even if they had vision I still think they'd have a harder time

[halcyon forum]

I mean they could have just avoided the chokepoint of the stairs?

[severe rampart]

the structure didn't allow for it

[halcyon forum]

which brings me back to the specific part

[severe rampart]

it was gonna be fun though, they had to scream the answers of a riddle, causing it to echo and reverb throughout the cavern and make the monsters find them

[halcyon forum]

i dont think the majority of dungeons can be cheesed with soap

[vapid aurora]

We're playing an Issekai-style D&D game. I have a +4 History, and when I try to learn something about an item, the GM says, "Well, you're from another world, you have no idea what this is," even though I roll a 20 on the d20. I don't think this is normal.

[woven flint]

A 20 isn't an auto success

[crimson gulch]

yeah issekai dnd is not normal allright

[halcyon forum]

i think its pretty normal that no matter what you roll, if you character cant know something, they wont. Dm shouldnt let you roll in the first place though

[stoic haven]

Heyo, so I've been having trouble with my dm on trying to intimidate NPCs, as most of the time I do, he changes it to a deception or persuasion, which neither of which I am proficient in, depending on if I am telling a lie or the truth to intimidate them

[vapid aurora]

But he thinks my character knows nothing about the new world. My character was a wizard in the previous world, but the GM thinks he's incapable of understanding the magical object in front of him.

[stoic haven]

Side note, most of our intimidations checks keep going to Str (Intimidation)

[uncut zenith]

Yeah generally speaking, if there’s no chance at success, there’s no need to ask for a roll

[crimson gulch]

Sounds like you should talk to them about it

[halcyon forum]

I assume you already talked to him about it between sessions?

[uncut zenith]

Sometimes players need to know that the DM can just say, “No, you can’t do that.”

[stoic haven]

correct

[halcyon bison]

An arcana check would probably be better for you there if you're trying to understand the magic behind it

[stoic haven]

First time, a group of bugbears came to our Leomund's tiny hut, didn't know what it was and started banging on it. Cleric went out, said it was a blessing from their deity, and I decided to use a telepathic ability to get in the leader's head and scare them off

changed it to deception. Second time, I don't put on the guise of the god and just go into someone's head and again try to scare them (a few sessions later), and he says to make a persuasion check since I "didn't lie"

[halcyon forum]

hmm, If the DM is not receptive to your arguments, maybe they can let you respec the proficiency?

otherwise I guess its up to you to decide how much this bothers you

its certainly not a cool move

[stoic haven]

also, for added stuff, I am Astral self monk, so I am getting adv on intimidation checks with visage, but I am never getting to roll it

[halcyon bison]

I get what you're saying.
If a charisma check when you're not lying persuasion, and a check when you are lying is deception, how are you supposed to use intimidation?

I'd point out that persuasion is when you're trying to appeal to someone's better nature or make a good-faith argument, not just any time you're trying to convince anyone of anything without lying

[halcyon forum]

yeah

[crimson gulch]

if they call for a persuasion check and you say its my intentions to be threatening and intimidating what do they say?

[halcyon forum]

maybe ask your DM to reread this section of the rules https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/playing-the-game#Skills

[stoic haven]

They said, that since I wasn't actually able to be seen and they only "hear" me (telepathy), it would be a persuasion to get them to leave, even if I am threatening them

[halcyon bison]

That's a ridiculous ruling imo

[halcyon forum]

Persuasion Charisma Honestly and graciously convince someone of something.

[jovial shadow]

Then that is the DM's ruling. Their rules are allowed to contrast with official rules

[crimson gulch]

that sucks, i would bounce from that table

[halcyon forum]

def a red flag

[tawdry sentinel]

You'd think it'd be fine to allow intimidation and it's just a more nuclear option. But eh.

[halcyon bison]

I could maybe see that argument against you getting advantage from the visage of the astral self, but you should still definitely be able to use intimidation there

I would think that having the visage maybe makes your voice spookier or something though because that feature specifically allows you to amplify your voice and doesn't say they have to see you to be intimidated

[stoic haven]

I used the last feature for telepathy on whoever the leader was

but I do see how it might not allow adv

[halcyon bison]

It seems to me that those two things are specifically intended to be used together

[scenic valley]

I just had the dummies idea

What if we ditched the die and instead took a card from the game cards agent humanity game and what ever the card said is what happened

[halcyon bison]

Might be fun for a one shot? I've never played cards against humanity so I dunno

[scenic valley]

Its basically you draw a black the black card has a blank in it and then everyone has like ten white cards , and you basically use the one that I'll make it the funniest , but it's like some crazy s*** that are on the wight cards

[halcyon bison]

I dunno how that'd work with D&D

[scenic valley]

It would be funny

No i mean , instead of rolling , die you pick up a white card

[tawdry sentinel]

But they'd have nothing to do with what's going on basically all of the time.

[buoyant oar]

Yeah it would be funny for the least serious game. But over all it wouldn't pass the sniff test.

[livid slate]

I just wanted to talk about boe genius battlefield actions are, I implemented them and now my fights actually scare the players without having to to a bunch of damage

It's honestly such a good mechanic.

Also helps in limiting rounds without adding more actions

[potent vector]

Aaaaaaaand I'm back

[halcyon bison]

Hi Back I'm Twodozenrats

[potent vector]

You laugh but I just had a character named Back who we made jokes Abt like this the whole time

Therefore, yes, I am Back

And also back

[potent vector]

Btw, what mechanic is this? My head goes to those war commander features players could get in 5e

[feral fulcrum]

I presume some manner of Homebrew or Third Party mechanic

[livid slate]

it is not a real one,one made by a youtuber

but basically its a battle mechanic where the boss has a visible animation with ways to lessen / negate the effecrs

Allow me to steal his example

The boss starts a chant where summoning circles appear, players learn that of you stand in them there magical Arcana is killed and can't summon the ennemies

Or they could cast silence on him
It's a nice way of not having a punching bag and encouraging differerent action imo

[livid slate]

Want me to link you to the video?

[feral fulcrum]

That's just telgraphing big moves/legendary actions. My DM has done that before

[livid slate]

The big difference is you can avoid or negate them

[minor cargo]

Are you referring to PointyHat's video? Basically saying that boss fights are a lot more fun for them because their bosses kind of behave like MMO bosses - painting big circles on the ground and what not?

I definitely agree. It's really fun IMO to telegraph big moves. It engages players in a really great way.

[livid slate]

Yes! I adored it

The fact it convinces players not to just max out damage is so fun!

I especially like the second example he shows in the vid, where the enemy changes targets.

It creates for amazing teamwork

[potent vector]

I had someone talk Abt this the other day with a Tell mechanic, I suggested making it based on Passive Insight when it happened so Perception is less be-all-end-all

[livid slate]

Rolling for it seems eeeeh
The whole point is for players to be able to do something against it, rolling adds luck therefore making it counterintuitive imo

I also adore it cause it adds more boss actions without extending the game too long

[potent vector]

Passive Insight*. To reward players with build diversity like you would with rare damage types

Rolling would be for people who might want to interact with it but put less investment into it

[livid slate]

Oooooooooooooh
While I slightly agree that should be something discussed with players early on, because if ya don't obv they will ignore it

Out of that fact it's a good idea

[hidden spindle]

Telegraphing moves is so fun. Especially when recharge moves are regained

[livid slate]

Rn I'm thinking of using that feature to make like my boss take a defensive position, and the more damage my players do the more he'l return
So either they get out of its area while doing damage of stop
(Obv with hints of whats happening )

[buoyant oar]

I use concentration as a charge up mechanic all the time because it mimics those kinds of boss fight abilities from MMOs and allows the players to attempt to interrupt them.

[potent vector]

I had a boss with an Exploding Head mechanic that my players enjoyed abusing. They fed the fodder enemies to him whenever it was about to blow

[livid slate]

Concentration on what may I ask?

[buoyant oar]

On whatever ability they're about to unleash upon the players

[potent vector]

Concentration like a spell on features they mean I believe

[hidden spindle]

Oh that's nice and a good alternative to "I attack"

[livid slate]

I mean specifically on what.

[potent vector]

Smth that could be telegraphed, as a way for them to interrupt it

[buoyant oar]

A red dragon telegraphs their move by inhaling a lot. You see the fire building in his chest. Attack him and attempt to interrupt it.

[livid slate]

Aaah got it

[naive cedar]

i think zelda games originated mechanics like that

although mmos def perfected them

[hidden spindle]

Go for the jugular

[naive cedar]

im thinking of the spider lady from the first dungeon of ocarina of time: you have to go for her eye to make her fall down

[potent vector]

You can even get funky and force it to only specific types of damage that force the Concentration check

Like an Ice dragon's breath needing to save when they take fire damage mid charge.

[hidden spindle]

Sling Bullets on Armagohma's eyes

[buoyant oar]

The bandit Captain gets into position holding out their sword breaker dagger with a curious grin on his face.

That's me telegraphing to the players that if they attack him with melee he will get a reaction attack.

When it comes to charge up mechanics, I typically use that on casters. The red wizard is going to cast fireball but he's going to spend a round charging it up. Which is my way of telegraphing that he's casting this at a higher level than default meaning that if it hits them, it's going to do a lot more damage than they're expecting.

[potent vector]

Tbh this is making the emphasis to me that using these for main turn actions would be rly fun where Legendary Actions are all the normal stuff they can do in the meantime

Just to give their actual turns more oomph

[buoyant oar]

Sure, this spell could be immediately counterpelled and ended. But then the party member has just wasted a spell slot and their reaction and I rarely run 1v party encounters.

Another example is give your hobgoblins a horn. As an action, they pull the horn out and blow.

The party now has two rounds to end the encounter before reinforcements show up

[rough basalt]

I just blam the party when I can

[feral fulcrum]

Glyphs of Warding on every square inch of a dungeon

[hidden spindle]

That would be a sight to see with Detect Magic

[halcyon bison]

Technically bugs should trigger things like alarm and glpyhs of warding

[rough basalt]

Reminds me one time I had 2 flameskulls double fireball a 20x20 room with the whole party in it

[feral fulcrum]

Depends on the Glyphs of Warding's trigger

[hidden spindle]

"This dungeon master must have spent every copper piece placing those wards!"

[rough basalt]

That level 5 party got what was coming to them

[potent vector]

NGL I just clocked the realization Conc on monster features would give mage slayer more value

[potent vector]

Probably only swarms, since bugs don't have a statblock RAW

[rough basalt]

I just see it making monster features never happen imo

[halcyon bison]

Spiders do
Which is relevant for familiars

[hidden spindle]

Spiders are actu-🐛

[halcyon bison]

Also they have a chance to one shot a commoner

[rough basalt]

Can't wait for the next time I get to fireball a party

[potent vector]

Ic. Well you can specify what does doesn't trigger it, which means you could tell the DM you ignore bugs and other inconsequential things. Which does leave a loophole for BBEG spying though. . .

Since if they Polymorph they could ignore it

[halcyon bison]

shhhhhh

[rough basalt]

Or better yet, use a Dragon breath that's a con save so Evasion doesn't help

[halcyon bison]

I'm not suggesting it actually be practiced, but it is funny to think about a spider crawling into a lich's dungeon and being exploded from 100 glyphs
It would actually be interesting to have that be a caveat of those kinds of spells though, that familiars and polymorphs can sneak through

[buoyant oar]

Or utilize multiple enemies and chain your attacks.

The wizard casts hold person on the Rogue. Then the dragon blasts him.

[charred radish]

lookung for a people to do campaighns

[potent vector]

#looking-for-dm

[rough basalt]

Oh yeah enemy teamwork is great

[potent vector]

Oh, wait, #find-a-game is prob better

[rough basalt]

A good rule of thumb is that the only good PC is a dead PC /hj

[gray garden]

In addition, any time you prepare Artificer spells, you can prepare an additional number of spells equal to your Proficiency Bonus. These additional spells can be chosen from the Artificer, Cleric, and Wizard spells lists, and the chosen spells count as Artificer spells for you holy peak dnd

[halcyon bison]

Where is this from?

[gray garden]

the newest bookl

[halcyon bison]

oh, i've only skimmed it

But I mean is it a magic item?

[rough basalt]

Reminds me, I need to kill a PC soon.
It's been too long.

[gray garden]

Whenever you cast an Artificer spell while you have Tinker’s Tools in your possession, you can add your Intelligence modifier to one damage roll of the spell.

Maverick is lowkey kinda cool

[halcyon bison]

don't kill people it's mean :(

[crimson gulch]

you can do it

i got 3 sessions left this month and i may break 10 PC deaths this month with how things are going

[potent vector]

What book is that? Haven't been caught up with releases

[gray garden]

exploring eberron

[potent vector]

Oooh. More Ebberron? That surprises me in a good way

[gray garden]

yea

main reason i got it was for the druid but im more curious in everythign now like the mind cleric

[potent vector]

More than one book on the same settings feels like it gives them the chance to flesh it out very well.

[gray garden]

my mind goblin is now a real character

[crimson gulch]

they took a 6 year old ebberon book from dms guild, ajusted it for 2024 and put it on dnd beyond

[potent vector]

"Explodes Pancakes with Mind"

"My flipping Pancakes!" 🥞 💥

[gray garden]

bard got fighters commanding strike in a way

[modest venture]

im working on a d3rlord 3 character

[potent vector]

d3rlord 3?

[potent vector]

Also is your pfp what I think it is

[modest venture]

hes from a youtube channel baced off of the book the king in yellow

[sleek cloud]

Do you think it should still be $30

[rough basalt]

Im just hoping I can get my campaign back up and running

[modest venture]

i assume you mean owl house and no its not

[rough basalt]

This part of the year is usually a killer for my games

[potent vector]

No, actually King in Yellow is what I was thinking lol

Tho I can't unsee the owl house now

[crimson gulch]

i dont think its worth buying if its not printed and on the shelf at the shop

[modest venture]

oh your the first person on dc who knows the king in yellow lol

that ive talked to

[sleek cloud]

Fair enough

[rough basalt]

It does have a print on DMsguild at least

[gray garden]

we got smiting druids

Choose one of the following damage types: Acid, Cold, Fire, or Lightning. Once per turn when you hit with a Wild Shape form’s attack, you can expend a spell slot (no action required) to deal extra damage of the chosen type equal to 1d6 per level of the spell slot, to a maximum of 5d6

[potent vector]

Don't ask me where I found out Abt tho lmfao