dnd-discussion

[eager marsh]

All ammunition weapons need ammunition it’s not free but most DMs handwave ammunition for arrows

[scenic zinc]

Depends on what you have going on with said weapon.

[gusty wasp]

Even bows?

[modern mist]

If i roll a nat20 will it somehow hit the c3 spine and the brainstem

[lavish flame]

all ranged weapons take ammunition. most DMs only make u keep track of special ammo (magical ammo and bullets)

[eager marsh]

Aimed shots aren’t a rule in 5e

[hidden spindle]

You need a RAF DM

[potent siren]

dnd doesnt take into account such granular details, so by RAW no.

[modern mist]

Ah alr

[uncut zenith]

Yes. Any weapon that has the ammunition properties means that you officially have to purchase and track ammunition. A lot of DMs hand wave that, but technically per the rules we’re supposed to keep track of ammo.

[modern mist]

Can i give cancer to my enemies

[gusty wasp]

Funny question... Can I bash my ranged weapon(like a bow or a rifle) as a melee if incase I have no ammo?

[eager marsh]

No and that’s useless anyways

In regards to cancer sorry

[potent siren]

cancer is curable in dnd at higher levels

[modern mist]

Dang it

[scenic zinc]

Diseases don't exist in '24, so no.

[eager marsh]

Cancer is also useless it’s too slow term

[hot gate]

Sure, that counts as an improvised weapon. It's not very effective, but it works.

[scenic zinc]

Level 5 ain't that high.

[modern mist]

Whats the best i can do as paladin support wise

[potent siren]

for the long run

[eager marsh]

I wouldn’t call cancer a curse

[lavish flame]

Magical Contagions are what they became. Tbh I like the new systemitized "diseases"

[eager marsh]

Greater restoration bare minimum

[scenic zinc]

Cancer isn't magical so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[gusty wasp]

Can we hurt teammates? 0=

[modern mist]

Stage 4 cancer to bosses and run

[eager marsh]

Sure if you wanna be booted from the table

[potent siren]

friendly fire is indeed on

[uncut zenith]

Agreed. “Common diseases” are too easy to bypass as a PC so they’ve always been sort of inconsequential, but having magical contagions that require extra work to cure is still interesting.

[modern mist]

Nat1 meteor and it hits your teammate cause accuracy sucks

[potent siren]

try not to anger your teammates though

[eager marsh]

Think of D&D like lord of the rings. If Legolas shot an arrow at Gimli there would be problems

[restive basin]

Guys my dm told me to prepare a spare character, is that bad ?

[hidden spindle]

Tavern Brawler would do it for fun~ Better than a Disadvantage.

[stark tundra]

I didn't ask how big the room is I said I cast fireball

[lavish flame]

I really don't feel that Sewer Plague and Sight Rot are magical either. This is just the name for what they are

[scenic zinc]

Hopefully it wasn't just told to you.

[hot gate]

Well, better than no proficiency bonus anyway 😄

[formal dove]

is there any way to get pre painted minis?

[modern mist]

Whats a bonus action

[gusty wasp]

Is grenade an option? And if so will it hurt allies?

[eager marsh]

It’s a side effect of rules being streamlined. Adamantine and Mythril armor don’t function in an animatic field for example despite being mundane features of the metal because they are categorized as magic items and not special materials

[hidden spindle]

Yes and yes

[uncut zenith]

Not inherently. I typically suggest my players to have backup characters just in case, but that doesn’t necessarily mean I’m out to get them.

[scenic zinc]

A bad idea that they never should have put in 5e

[eager marsh]

Does a grenade hurt your Allies irl?

[gusty wasp]

Nice

[restive basin]

Okayyyyy thanks for the answer 🫶🏻

[modern mist]

So when can i use my lay on hands thing

[restive basin]

Why do you think this a bad idea ?

[severe rampart]

no no, they just want you to have a buddy that's all 🙂

[stark tundra]

When you or an ally takes damage

[restive basin]

Oh okayyy

[lavish flame]

yes (again though, they're Modern items so you prolly wont come across them). and also yes. you will blow up your buddies if you get a grenade near them

[modern mist]

So when my ally takes dmg i can instantly use lay on hands? Or do i need to wait on my turn

[scenic zinc]

It's a very sloppy mechanic. The designers themselves have said so.

[uncut zenith]

My mindset behind having my players create a backup is so the players can get excited about their new character if their first character dies. That way the transition from playing one character to playing another is hopefully a little smoother.

[restive basin]

Tbh this is really great, I love your mindset

[gusty wasp]

How long does 1 campaign go for? hours?

[modern mist]

First character: Krogen Ralius
Backup character: Timmy

[lavish flame]

months or years

[severe rampart]

oh sweet summer child

[gusty wasp]

Damn

[uncut zenith]

1 campaign goes as long as it needs to. Same with 1 session.

[modern mist]

As long as the dm wants to

[hidden spindle]

It could go for hours, yes

[severe rampart]

but if you can't commit for that long, you COULD try oneshots

[restive basin]

A campaign has session and the session can be like for 7 hours or less or more and a campaign is like months or years

[uncut zenith]

Or rather, as long as it works for everybody at the table. It’s not just the DM who decides how long a campaign lasts.

[severe rampart]

they mean campaigns not sessions

[karmic pendant]

It's a bonus action if I remember correctly

[modern mist]

And whats a bonus action

[hidden spindle]

Yes yes. Measurable in hours. Just a lot of hours

[gusty wasp]

How many session does a single campaign have? 3?

[scenic zinc]

Systems that employ things like action points where you have a pool of points per turn and different actions cost X amount of points are much better, in my opinion, than 5e's design of action economy.

[modern mist]

As many

Could be 3. Could also be 50.

[uncut zenith]

As many as they need to tell a story from beginning to end. In some cases, that’s a single session (called a one-shot), in others in can take years.

[karmic pendant]

A part of combat i recommend going to #learn-to-play or looking at the core rules to learn about combat

[blissful ibex]

p2e gives you 3, and some spells cost 1, 2, or 3 points

[uncut zenith]

There’s no fixed number for what qualifies as a campaign

[restive basin]

As the dm wants, for exemple my campaign started in the end of November and we had 7 sessions, we want to go level 20 so we are going for a 2 years campaign. So maybe more than 50

[hidden spindle]

I liked this in Divinity Sin.

[lavish flame]

1 session of play is usually 2+ hours long. I've never played a session longer than 6 hours, but I know people that play for 10+ hours.

A Campaign is usually composed of several Sessions. The shortest Campaign I have been in lasted 8 Sessions over 2 months. The longest Campaign I have been in lasted 60+ over the course of 8 years. They last as long as they last.

[gusty wasp]

Damn that's way to long 🥀

[blissful ibex]

somewhere between like 3~15 for hardcovers, but a campaign can be as long or short as the party/DM want it to be; can either run a custom world or chain campaign books with the same characters

[hot gate]

In my experience it's more like 5-100 for hardcovers

[modern mist]

Get strong enough to summon the Sun like a jojo stand

[lavish flame]

When I ran the prewritten adventure Curse of Strahd, it lasted about 30 sessions over the course of 6 months

[scenic zinc]

A campaign is at minimum more than 1 session, in my opinion.

[blissful ibex]

depends how lost in the weeds the party gets

[hidden spindle]

The campaign I had been in went on for a couple months, and in game, only one night had pass.

One. Long. Rest.

[uncut zenith]

Agreed. A campaign is a story. Sometimes it only needs one session, sometimes it needs a lot more.

[blissful ibex]

bet those casters thought real long and hard about using those slots

[modern mist]

“Real-time Campaign”

[uncut zenith]

I’m just saying there’s no real numerical range of number of sessions for it to be a “campaign”.

[modern mist]

Where the characters have to rest every 12 hours of gameplay

[lavish flame]

Real. Whats that quote "There are years where weeks happen, and there are weeks where years happen"

Sometimes you burn through 4 days in 1 session, sometimes you gnaw on 1 day for 5 sessions

[crimson gulch]

the last 5 years was a heck of a decade thats for sure

[gusty wasp]

My ass would probably shoot everyone I see to progress the game fast as the one who carry the guns

[severe rampart]

Traditionally there are no firearms at the start, I think

[severe rampart]

also this would probably make the game a whole lot slower 😭

[gusty wasp]

I mean if there no gun I can use bows right?

[hidden spindle]

It was Cantrips and tons Social Encounters.

I opted for Observant over War Caster

[blissful ibex]

(Likely modified CoS spoilers) ahh ||Vallaki|| multiple combats including like 2 boss fights and ||a mansion full of darkness and Shadows|| and ||our warlock's quasit burning the mayor's mansion down with everyone inside||

[gusty wasp]

Wait really? Won't little conversation on npc make it fast?

[severe rampart]

well you have to think about the impact it creates in-game, you could be locked up by guards if you just kill anyone and everyone

[uncut zenith]

Correct. They’re too expensive to be starting equipment

Even if you took starring gold instead of starting equipment, I’m pretty sure they’re too expensive for you to start with a gun.

[gusty wasp]

Good point... I would accidentally kill a important character that would progress the game 🙂

[crimson gulch]

correct, 250g for a pistol or 500 for a musket is far beyond starting equipment at level 1 RAW

[hidden spindle]

You could do the same with Short or Longbows.

There's a good chance there'll be good roleplay ahead of you

[blissful ibex]

Tell that to the people out here trying to start with full plate

[crimson gulch]

i do when i have to, im running 9 games with no homebrew

[gusty wasp]

Does armour matter?

[hot marlin]

Of course it does. For characters with low dexterity, armour is almost mandatory

[jaunty jacinth]

definitely matters unless you're a monk or barbarian

[gusty wasp]

Ahh even for ranged?

[hot marlin]

Ranged characters will be targetted too. In fact, some enemies may consider them higher priority targets.

[severe rampart]

Yes, one of these sessions you will inevitably get hit

[uncut zenith]

Even barbarians can benefit more from wearing armor at higher levels than going unarmored the whole way

[restive basin]

Yeah but to no honest it’s so cool and when you have your character you just want to play with it as long as you can

[jaunty jacinth]

yeah that's true, but anything heavy will deactivate some features

[serene jolt]

I mean if we're talking about 2024, if you choose Artificer, and you take the infusion to have a pistol or musket, you can technically start with a gun. But I believe that's a level 2 feature.

[uncut zenith]

Unarmored Defense is great for early level barbarians, but once the party starts getting magic armor, they’re better off wearing it and losing the UD benefits

[blissful ibex]

or certain kinds of Bard, or certain kinds of wizard, or certain kinds of Druid

[eager marsh]

Even mundane armor beats in armored defense once you have half plate 9 times out of 10

[severe rampart]

Wizards not wearing armor?

[serene jolt]

But not with 2014 because you don't "create" the items from thin air back then, bar wonderous items.

[gusty wasp]

Can we be unhinged as we like? Or dms limits it?

[naive cedar]

I thought wizards don’t wear armour

[blissful ibex]

early on, bladesinger gets an AC boost that doesn't like armor

[severe rampart]

You can but please be mindful of the other players

[restive basin]

Guys, is the ranger class good ? I play cleric more often but I feel that for my next character I want to play more for attack

[uncut zenith]

Wizards aren’t proficient in armor, so unless they get that proficiency so other way, like a feat, they can’t cast spells if armored

[scenic zinc]

T3+ play is about saving throws anyway

[potent siren]

ranger is great fun

[jaunty jacinth]

elven chain is a wizard's best friend

[eager marsh]

Please try to remember this is a team game and you are playing a real person with the world. A Deadpool style character doesn’t actually fit in most fantasy settings and can generally take away the fun and immersion for the rest of the table

[severe rampart]

also do NOT metagame

[serene jolt]

Unless you're a 2014 Bladesinger Wizard, or you dip one level at first level into something with armor proficiency, no armor.

[blissful ibex]

there are no bad classes

[scenic zinc]

Nope. Often times metagaming is the right thing to do.

[eager marsh]

I generally disagree with that

[gusty wasp]

I mean it could be funny but ofc I'll behave 🙂

[severe rampart]

for me it ruins the immersion

[restive basin]

Your really right for that, I really want to test a ranger one day ! Maybe I’m gonna draw one for a npc in my back story

[eager marsh]

Being funny and keeping the game fun are not always the same

[uncut zenith]

This depends on the style of campaign the entire table agrees to. If you’re the only one playing an “unhinged” character, you’re more than likely gonna come across as disruptive at the table, and that’s not a good thing.

[hot marlin]

Whether or not metagaming is good or bad depends on what you mean by metagaming. The word is ill-defined

[scenic zinc]

There's positive metagaming and negative metagaming. Only the negative is often the one described as metagaming.

[serene jolt]

I hate when a DM tells me something my character wouldn't know like yesterday he said "Oh it's a charm spell but they can get out of it when they take damage". And then I can't test anything without feeling like I'm metagaming. Drives me bonkers. XD

[potent siren]

coordinating with the players above the table is a form of metagaming, for example

[eager marsh]

The idea that a strong smack upside the head to break mind control is a very common trope and not metagaming

[restive basin]

I love dnd so much, I wish I could have session everyday

[potent siren]

but something like looking up enemy stat blocks, or using your existing knowledge of an enemy to influence the actions of your character, who may not have said knowledge, is generally viewed as an example of bad metagaming

[serene jolt]

It is but then when I mention "Well hey my character has a lot of enchantment and charm spells, can I have an idea of how to break it?"

And he's like "Welllll that would be metagaming."

-_-

[jaunty jacinth]

yep i remember hitting my other party members with one magic missile to break a charm

[eager marsh]

That’s your DM being bad at his job. But also most enchantment effects can break by damage it’s a reasonable assumption

[serene jolt]

Then I was absolutely frustrated that he said anything at all! Like leave me in the dark so my character can test things.

[eager marsh]

An enchantment or charm saying damage doesn’t break it is actually abnormal

[uncut zenith]

Yeah more often than not, taking damage triggers at least an additional saving throw

[serene jolt]

For example, I had Tasha's Hideous Laughter... Which allows you to take a save at adv if you take damage.

So it's not like my character wouldn't know to try that!

[scenic zinc]

And it often matters who the source of that damage is

[eager marsh]

Your DM is bad at his job like I said

[serene jolt]

Among other spells like Suggestion and stuff

[jaunty jacinth]

this...isn't metagaming. i don't understand why your dm didn't just have you roll arcana or history to see if your character had any of this knowledge

[restive basin]

Some DMs are like that…

[hot marlin]

Also, isn't it kind of obvious that you should slap someone when they're under mental influence?

[uncut zenith]

Yeah a lot of times it’s “if you or an ally damage the target”

[hot marlin]

Seems like something that should be tried.

[serene jolt]

I asked if I could do something about it and after he was like shrug shrug the whole time, I said "Alright I'll roll a 1d2. If I roll a 1, I try attacking the party member. If I roll a 2, I try to attack the caster to 'break concentration'."

He agreed to that. And of course I rolled a 2.

[eager marsh]

There’s also certain things that are just….objectively common knowledge. It’s never metagaming to know vampires die in sunlight that’s a well known fact even by peasants

[jaunty jacinth]

sometimes, but also people may be uncomfortable with the idea of harming their party members

[serene jolt]

Our party members wanted it. They didn't want to be charmed to heal the enemy and attack us. XD

[scenic zinc]

maybe, maybe not. Depends on how prevalent vampires are in the overall setting. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[jaunty jacinth]

your party members were directly healing the enemy? that must've been a higher level charm then

do you know what specifically affected the party?

[coarse ravine]

I treat ghosts when I posses a character. I only make ghosts do unarmed strikes. Cause ghosts dont know the skills that character has developed. But stuff like intellect devourers. Dominate person etc. Yeah they can use all those abilities. But a paranormal possession would not

[serene jolt]

It was a non-concentration charm that can only be a repeated save if they take damage, but all at disadvantage.

That's all I know. They were high level spellcaster monsters.

[scenic zinc]

That's also a pretty modern vampire weakness. Most historical vampires don't have that weakness.

[jaunty jacinth]

all of you rolled at disadvantage against the charm??

[serene jolt]

Only after you failed the initial save and take damage.

[jaunty jacinth]

that still sounds awful im not going to lie

[serene jolt]

It was absolutely awful. He got our rogue and cleric.

[eager marsh]

Modern vampire weaknesss are standard weaknesses in D&D worlds without DM adjustment so that means nothing

[serene jolt]

I'm just mad he knew I was an enchanter/illusion specialist and was like "Nah you wouldn't know". XD

[jaunty jacinth]

rolling at disadvantage would mean that you'd just have to keep damaging your own party members and if it's bad enough you'd be doing more damage to your own friends than the actual enemy 😭

[scenic zinc]

Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean my point is meaningless.

[coarse ravine]

Is banshee like the biggest (could be tpk or could be wayy too easy)

[eager marsh]

Telling a specialist they don’t know what would generally be considered common knowledge about their subject is just poor form

[serene jolt]

Luckily AOEs were a thing we could do. XD

[eager marsh]

That’s not an opinion. The rules themselves treat modern vampire weaknesses as the base standard which would be applicable for all of history in a setting by default unless the dm has decided otherwise

[scenic zinc]

Which is your opinion.

[eager marsh]

That’s literally not an opinion .-.

[scenic zinc]

The rules don't dictate you must use the given stat blocks. They do quite the opposite.

[eager marsh]

I also clearly said ‘unless the DM has decided otherwise’ which is what you are suggesting

[jaunty jacinth]

to me this seems like the DM had a grudge against someone in the party or against the party in general and wanted to ruin your day.

[scenic zinc]

Which is what I outright said. I didn't suggest a single thing.

[junior gust]

@whole crescent we could ask in here about joining a game

[scenic zinc]

I started my entire statement with 'it depends on the setting'

[cosmic roost]

Ready to play Dungeons & Dragons?

Visit #find-a-game for everything you need to start your search, including:

• Instructions for finding a game here on the server (including how to post in our #looking-for channels).
• Suggestions for finding a game outside of this server.
• Basic advice to help you in your hunt.

[junior plaza]

wrong channel mb

[hot marlin]

Do people know vampires are killed by sunlight? Do people even know vampires exist? Do they even have stories and legends about vampires?

It all depends too much on too many variables.

[fickle heart]

I'm preferential to comparing metagaming to characters in a work of fiction knowing the genre of fiction they are in, as that heavily influences their play. They ideally know the setting, but knowing they are in a horror survival game within that setting is entirely something beyond their capabilities, so their actions should be self-contained to their experiences and not the player's own observations. Sometimes this has a PC touching something that the player has a very very strong sensation is going to have a negative effect, but the PC would have no way of knowing they're in a meatgrinder dungeon-crawl so can't reasonably be assumed to avoid it until evidence has been given of the fact.

[hidden spindle]

What even is "good" metagaming?

[hot marlin]

Now, trolls and fire? That one is obvious. Not because people know about trolls. But because when you see something is regenerating, trying to burn it is the obvious next step

[hot marlin]

Treating PCs differently than you treat NPCs.

[blissful ibex]

or acid!

[hot marlin]

If you're playing a character who would turn a murderer in to the authorities, you don't do it to a fellow PC.

[blissful ibex]

maybe necrotic

[lyric viper]

COming up with reasons your party sticks together, or follows the plot, or doesn't spiral in to PvP.

Communicating out of character with each other about what you're wanting/trying to do and trying to make it work.

[raw ocean]

Doing stuff that makes sense ahead of time

[hidden spindle]

This usually devolves into in-table conversation unless there's Telepathy involved

[sand basin]

hallo

Howard are you

[lean wigeon]

being able to separate the player and the character

[lyric viper]

Honestly- discussing combat stratergies mid combat. I know some folk don't like that, and debatable on if you consider it 'metagaming' but my group's take is 'Our PCs would know each other well enough/ be better at combat than us, so us talking out of character to best make a plan, even if they're not communicating, is just us bridging that gap'

[raw ocean]

Felix good

[eager marsh]

Separating the player and the character would be the opposite of metagaming

[lyric viper]

Yes and no- metaknowledge is knowing Tim is not trying to ruin your game, even when Valefore the Wizard is totally messing with your PC's mood.

[hot marlin]

One example: I wanted to let an enemy run away after a fight, on the tried and true principle that it's easier to track a wounded beast to its nest than to ask it where it's going.

[hidden spindle]

Maybe its just me as a DM but memorizing the parties' Spells, Spell Slots, and Hit Points and damage taken would count as metagaming right?

[hot marlin]

I had this idea in the middle of the fight. How do I communicate that idea with other PCs without the enemy realizing?

[lyric viper]

So being like 'Okay, let's see where this is going, because I'm sure Tim has a plan and reason for this'

[hushed mason]

No. Not if it is the DM..

[hot marlin]

At one point I just gave up and said "Guys, you know my character well enough. He is pretending to mess up because he wants that guy to escape."

[rough basalt]

When it comes to stuff like that, it could be seen as it but not necessarily

[lyric viper]

I mean it still is in the sense it is literally 'Meta' knowledge. it's knowlege of what is happening above table and beyond what ever charcater you're controlling has.

[sand basin]

im gald

[rough basalt]

As HP represents your state of ability to continue fighting

So while a monster acting on an HP amount would be metagaming

[lyric viper]

Metagaming is oft used to refer to the typically overuse of metagaming to abuse that knowledge, but the whole game really only works on the use of metaknowledge.

[rough basalt]

A monster attacking a dude groaning and breathing heavily cause he's nearly about to faint wouldn't be

[sand basin]

guys got quici question kinea stupid question

sht i hot the wron channel

[empty thicket]

i would settle the agro with the int//wid stat

if the creature have some of it, wont attack like some dumb animal

[rough basalt]

Well even animals can tell when people are screwed up.

[hot marlin]

There is no such thing as "attacking like some dumb animal". Animals know how to attack and attack well.

[rough basalt]

Like Dogs can tell when their owners are sick and unhappy

[empty thicket]

higher of that stat meaning more strategist enemies
and there can be some "leaders"

[lyric viper]

I mean, I still have the dilemma on knowing that a PC is so low on HP a hit would kill them and if I should take that hit or go for another PC. Even that dilemma is in itself a metagame issue. One of those 'I cannot ignore this knowledge and any choice I make will be affected by it'

[hot marlin]

Wolves are better hunters than humans. Being a good combat strategist does not require intelligence.

[empty thicket]

that is why i said widsom too, understand what is happening around you

[rough basalt]

Wolves may not be able to draw out a plan, but they'll do tactics that humans have towards each other

[hot marlin]

Counterpoint: What if you asked your players not to tell you their HP so that it doesn't colour your knowledge?

[hidden spindle]

I feel better doing this with Zombies.

[rough basalt]

Like Wolves will do stuff similar to pincer maneuvers and stuff

[lyric viper]

And sometimes that knowledge is knowing 'Oh no, that player would feel real mad if they thought I was going easy on them' so I will murder their PC to make them happy.
Or 'I know that this player has had a real bad time this combat with sucky rolls, and I have another move that would totally make sense and give them another turn'

[rough basalt]

Purely based off instinct, thouhht and body language

[lyric viper]

Ah, one of the things from VTTs. I see all HP.

[hot marlin]

The question of how the enemies of the party should behave has more to do with what they seek to achieve.

[empty thicket]

yep, but again, Widsom, the wolves have 12. They will understand when they are in danger, when attack and other stuff

[hot marlin]

I go by the rule of "monsters want to win"

So why are the wolves attacking the party? Are they defending their young from a perceived intrusion? Are they rabid? Are they starving? Are they under magical influence? That informs how they behave. And that is the only thing that really informs how they behave

[lyric viper]

So as a DM I will still metagame to go with options that I think will be more 'fun' over what might be the most optimal choice/ 'in character' choice.

Just as 'It's what my character would do' can be abused by players, so can it be abused by DMs if what that character would do is just Very Not Fun.

[crimson gulch]

playing unplugged is fun, casting power word kill and then asking for their hit points is a rush

[empty thicket]

an ogre have 5 int and 7 wid
so the idea of someone leading the ogre or the ogre just being a violent creature that attack everything around him, that if you mock him you can easily take his agro

[hot marlin]

I admit, I think the most fun option is the option that would be what the character would do.

Provided the character is an actual character that makes sense

[snow zephyr]

It's halflings and they want a snack

[lyric viper]

It's often the most immersive. But I've also played through games were DMs have pulled such stunts as 'The enemy can scry you can cast spells through the scry focus/ teleport a bunch of enemies to you/ meteor your village/ know your every plan and make a counter plan perfectly to it'

[rough basalt]

Yeah I've had an ogre fight start cause the players kept mispronouncing his name

[frail wasp]

"its what my character would do" is one of those excuses that rings hollow when the players point out you can make a character that doesn't do those things

[empty thicket]

or its my way to give a "rule" for the enemies, a "sense" behind some behaviors and more

[frail wasp]

and it applies to the DM too

[lyric viper]

And like. Sure. Okay. A really powerful archmage should be scary.

But I also just want to play the game...

[hot marlin]

Then the wolves will be attacking what seems to be the weakest one. The one not wearing armour. The weaker they seem the better. They will jump this one. Then the next action will depend on how the party acts in response

[rough basalt]

If somethings mindless or doesn't care, I'll have it attack downed PCs

[empty thicket]

Yeah, most importantly that, having fun is important, giving a challenge too because without it there is no feeling of "overcoming"

[hot marlin]

For me the problem with that is the logistics. When did that archmage scry on the party? Which information did they gleam from that?

[crimson gulch]

i execute a lot of PC's i actually cant remember the last time one died from failing the death saves

[rough basalt]

Like Stirges, why would they detach from something that still has blood in it.

[hot marlin]

Honestly, for me, everything attacks downed PCs.

[frail wasp]

you basically never hear "its what my character would do" to justify characters doing awesome and fun things ...

[empty thicket]

its like the meme of the barbarian screaming "FIREBALL!!" to the thief's, they dont know he can do it

[hot marlin]

With some exceptions that depend on the context of the fight

[rough basalt]

For me, for enemies that can communicate with people, sometimes they'll use them as hostages, as an opening to escape, ect.

[hot marlin]

That is indeed one of the exceptions.

[cursive fjord]

Can anyone help me with an issue? My and my DM are trying to come up with a compromise:
I play a character that is a prepared caster, so I unlock all my spells at once.
He wants the spells I find to be found in the world itself before hand, like a wizard.
Im trying to find a middle ground.

[rough basalt]

But like if I ever run a Lich for example, he's just gonna finish off PCs and raise them for his own forces.

[hot marlin]

Animals that are hungry will focus on the downed PCs. Enemies that are fighting to kill the party will focus on the downed PCs. Enemies that seek to make an escape will focus on the downed PCs to create a distraction.

[empty thicket]

yeah, tell it to me, the DM added an insanity mechanic that add us flaws, i got one and i told him how i would make it work.
its "Achieving my goal is the only thing of interest to me, and I'll ignore everything else to pursue it."

So, i told him what was always my goal, maintain the party alive. So i will make it work like i worry too much about them, will sacrifice some missions objectives, people to reassure they are safe, even myself

he liked it and we are going to see how we do it work

[lyric viper]

Like I will sometimes say to my players 'I'm sorry, I love you but (BBEG) wants to see the light fade from your eyes'.
And then multiattack their dying PC. >.>

But also will avoid doing things that.. aren't fun. Spells that make PCs skip turns are powerful but.. not really fun for that player.

[rough basalt]

I'll paralyze/stun/charm players personally

[lyric viper]

So not saying to never be mean or to use metaknowledge to advantage (Heck I think it's suggested for enemies wo are meant to be master mind tacticians t use what you know about the party to plan spells and traps ahead)

But that metaknowledge can 100% be abused by DMs too, in a way that isn't fun to players.

[rough basalt]

I won't make it a point to always include said stuff

But an Archmage of Enchantment is definitely gonna cast dominate person on that barbarian and send them after the parties wizard.

[lyric viper]

Oh I mean, I have some players who find that really fun

[empty thicket]

Would do that only in a key moment and left it completely to the luck
if there is a party of 4
Roll a d100 or a d8 and give an number to each member, depending of which number land you target that player.
If the party is smart and understand that is getting targeted, they are going to protect it

[hot marlin]

Thing is "fun" is such a... Nebulous thing. Is it unfun to have your turn skipped? It depends. I have fun when I feel like the DM is pulling no punches, so getting stunned is fun for me if I see it the optimal option

I want my enemies to take the optimal course of action to fight me except in situations where there is a narrative explanation for why they aren't.

[lyric viper]

In small doses and when it makes sense it can be okay, but still, things like 'You're paralysed for half the battle, just sit and watch' can be.. not fun.

[frail wasp]

fun is subjective, there's no one-size-fits-all approach, and its the DMs job to figure out the best way to bring the fun at their unique table

[rough basalt]

Two kinds of DMs
DM 1: "Alright I have control but I won't use any features, just attack"
DM 2: "Smite that wizard"

[empty thicket]

Can paralyze a caster and they can still use voice spells

[snow zephyr]

Balancing for fun doesn't work

[frail wasp]

and sometimes its impossible for a given table group to all have fun together >_> (or at least, impossible given current gaming technology)

[empty thicket]

i like the idea of balancing in challenge and giving fun in some ways

[lyric viper]

Not RAW no.

[sand basin]

chat, how can i make a funny character

[rough basalt]

I think it's impossible to always have fun when playing a random chance game

[empty thicket]

Damn....

[rough basalt]

Sometimes you just get screwed by the dice

[snow zephyr]

I explain before every campaign that I will not pull punches and your characters will die if you make dumb decisions

[empty thicket]

oh yeah, i would recommend using some bad dice moments for funny moments

[snow zephyr]

But you will always have the tools to come out on top

[sand basin]

-cough- -cough- me in real life

[rough basalt]

Like I remember I spent the entire first combat of one campaign paralyzed

[empty thicket]

Example: Nat 1 doing a persuasion, you just stutter a lot, slip and fall or word it in the worst possible way

[hot marlin]

Actually a nat 1 on a skill is not supposed to be any different from any other kind of failure. It's not even supposed to be an auto failure

[empty thicket]

i got in one fight charmed and couldnt attack, it was okey, because the paladin got the lightspot for him and i wasnt needed at all

[snow zephyr]

My favorite choice is that it triggers some obscure personality flaws in the listeners

[livid owl]

I had a character roll a nat 1 trying to flirt with a bartender and he slipped and hit his face on the bar and laid on the ground crying for 5 minutes afterwards

[rough basalt]

I didn't enjoy it, but I never rolled higher than a 4 on the DC:11 save

[frail wasp]

you know how video games have had difficulty selectors at the start of a game for decades? D&D should just steal that idea

[empty thicket]

this one get it, but if the dm want it too, he can make some mistakes into opportunities

[lyric viper]

This. I also feel when ever conversations like this come up where it obviously is going to be a subjective thing, and the topic is 'I think it's best to try and consider X' people seem to think of the extreme examples of either end of where it wouldn't work. And.. yes?

[snow zephyr]

"the king of the dwarven realm you're in hears you mention the ocean and immediately orders you to be silent"

[rough basalt]

Eh, video games are video games

[snow zephyr]

It's called CR

[rough basalt]

A "difficulty slider" if poorly implemented could lead to some extreme issues with table finding

[empty thicket]

or adapt it like Resident evil did in some time before, you do good? enemies are smarter and harder
You arent doing it too good and have a hard time, enemies are more forbidding

[umbral girder]

Nope they have no actions

[snow zephyr]

It does

[hot marlin]

How?

[rough basalt]

If a DM doesn't wanna be forced to play every enemy like a skyrim enemy they're "a bad dm who hates people that need it easier"
Course this is already an existing sentiment online, but it'd get a lot worse.

[empty thicket]

yep, had been told, still weird for me but i guess you got all glued instead of just arms and legs

[vale sage]

yoo

[empty thicket]

Yo

[umbral girder]

Also last I checked you cannot speak while Paralyzed

[hot marlin]

Wait... You mean, like... All monsters get slightly stronger the higher the difficulty?

[lyric viper]

I mean, DMs will need to scale challenges not just to the party level, but to the player's preferences and skills yep.

[empty thicket]

yeah, you just said it and the elgate told me, Thanks. The "for me" was for a reason.

[snow zephyr]

A spellcaster foe is gonna be a lot more annoying for a party without counterspell or a tank

[frail wasp]

its a complex topic to describe in just a paragraph .... or I could just say "how baldurs gate 3 did it" and leave it there

[snow zephyr]

A melee horde is just gonna melt a caster-heavy party

[rough basalt]

Bg3s a video game

[frail wasp]

it is?

[rough basalt]

And its AI is a lot crueler than a lot of DMs.

[mortal oriole]

nah just goad ur dm saying the fights too easy and he tpks you

[rough basalt]

BG3s AI will almost always attack downed PCs.

[mortal oriole]

i told my DM his world is like disney and we got tpk'd yesterday

[snow zephyr]

Yeah, it's the optimal play

[rough basalt]

And CC PCs

[naive cedar]

i think thats only on higher difficulties

[umbral girder]

It’s so easy to break BG3 with a stealth archer I learned

[frail wasp]

on the lower difficulties it doesn't attack downed PCs

[lyric viper]

One of my group is highly tactical and honestly just.. way smarter than me. I need to make real mean, juiced up combats to challenge them.

Another group is young and new to the game and really just wants to have fun being strong and powerful so I'm going to make cool enemies that aren;t actually that hard to kill >.>

[naive cedar]

the AI also goes right for casters if the number of times I have to cast sanctuary on gale is any indication

[empty thicket]

My dm ask us to fill a form like some way to give a comment about the session and improve, we told him that some fights were kinda easy and its okey if he want to give us a more hard challenge

[rough basalt]

Yeah still, I don't think a DM should be forced to play like a game AI

[snow zephyr]

Stealth archer is the crab evolution for fantasy games

[mortal oriole]

damn

[quiet mist]

a

[still plover]

Re: the first, I know that feel. Heck, it's one versus four in the brain game!

[blissful ibex]

It's so easy to break [insert generic fantasy game here] with a stealth Archer

[lyric viper]

..I think folk are taking the wrong takeway from 'difficulty scaling like from video games'

[rough basalt]

Part of what drew me to DnD is its not limited by game code, and development.

[lyric viper]

It doesn't mean 'play D&D like a video game'

[naive cedar]

archer really is a cheat code for fantasy games isnt it

[mortal oriole]

i enjoy there being stakes and all

[umbral girder]

I do like taking level design from video games

[sand basin]

where can i find epic dnd wallpapers

[lyric viper]

It means 'Adjust how combat focused and how challenging options are to your group's preferences'.

[empty thicket]

its okey, we enjoy his sessions and he like to us give him an honest opinion. Its learning for both sides
More because we try sometimes new stuff like, we have a "glory kill mechanic" that is for making combats more dynamic and its good

[frail wasp]

i.e. the players upfront tell you what kind of game they want, so as a DM you don't have to guess

[mortal oriole]

thats sounds so cool how does it work

[frail wasp]

you also get full license to take the gloves off if the party is like "we would like meat grinder mode please"

[mortal oriole]

ngl my games are becoming more like players vs dm

[rough basalt]

I'm of the opinion that the DM finds players they want

[mortal oriole]

sometimes its all u got gang

like u wanna play but u only got this group so u might as well

[frail wasp]

you also can just advertise the difficulty you're running and players you want will self-select into your game

[rough basalt]

If you want enemies in a skyrim conga line where all they do is roll to attack and never do anything else, then I'm sure someone out there will do that.

[mortal oriole]

like i dont feel i can enjoy dnd with people i dont know so i only play with my group of friends

[naive cedar]

if you really want to emulate skyrim have the enemies yell "you never should have come here"

[fast latch]

I like medium difficulty personally

As a DM and as a PC

[empty thicket]

and another example, with a campaign im going to maybe start with a DM, he make us roll for stats 2 times and we can pick any of the rolls, if roll A or B.
I got 1 roll with giga op stats and anotehr with not so good ones and i told him.

"hey, depending of what my allies get, i will choose A or B so its easier for both sides"
Because i understand that if i am too op, i would make it hard for my allies and if we are all weak would be still funnier

[rough basalt]

Isn't this more or less already a thing?

[lyric viper]

Like how you wouldn't run the same type of game for a new, young player who wants a cool story as you would for the experienced, tactical minded player who wants those combats that make them think.

[frail wasp]

definitely not

[mortal oriole]

i like hard combat and an interesting story

[worldly rain]

I am looking for a gestalt.

[hot marlin]

Wait how does being too op make it hard for allies?

[mortal oriole]

makes me more invested in my kit and character knowing how far i can push him

[blissful ibex]

same

[atomic kayak]

aw I missed the talk about killing downed players 😔

Thats all nice and good, but the real rush comes from counterspelling revival spells

[rough basalt]

I see people bring up difficulty in their ads quite a bit.

[worldly rain]

Lettuce band together and find a DM

[mortal oriole]

if u got one OP player and the rest arent they just feel like side characters

like all my friends and i like to minmax so it works out

[empty thicket]

im too strong, my allies arent, who you think is going to be balanced the things?
Me that i can cast a spell and obliterate the enemies or the low power allies that cant against 3 goblins?

[mortal oriole]

but if only one guy is minmaxxing itd be boring for the rest

[hot marlin]

Honestly that's just not how I DM. I don't take party strength into account, just their level

[rough basalt]

Tbh I don't see them trying to enforce a difficulty slider ending well.

It's best if difficulty is just handled by the dm

[mortal oriole]

a level 7 hexadin aint like a level 7 ranger man

[frail wasp]

yes and its all subjective, the players that join those games still bounce off of them when they misinterpret what the difficulty means

[sand basin]

can i create a nuclear bomb (cientifically acurrate) in dnd?

[mortal oriole]

we just havee a rule that minmaxxing is allowed to the max since the dms likes to improvice on combat as well

[rough basalt]

And that's how it is, being able to find the right DnD group in one try is luck

[frail wasp]

two people claiming to be optimizers doesn't mean they're on the same page when it comes to optimization

[worldly rain]

Anyone else looking for a gestalt?

[blissful ibex]

delayed blast fireball with 1 day extended duration via circle casting

[rough basalt]

DnD should remain a free will sort of game.

[frail wasp]

two people claiming to be narrative focused doesn't mean they're on the same page when it comes to how much narrative control they want

[sand basin]

ulala

[mortal oriole]

yh sometimes it should be fine for it to be easy and sometimes hard

[hot marlin]

True, but I honestly do not care. I prepare my encounter taking only level into account.

[empty thicket]

that is good, but still having a wizard with the highest stat being 18 and lowest being 12. While my allies can get easily lower stats even to 12.
I want to everyone have fun in my party, even the dm and others players so each one can have his spotlight moment

[rough basalt]

I balance off of level

[tame forge]

Oh shit.... should I uhhhh... let my players out of the basement then?

[mortal oriole]

i mean as u wish im not a dm i cant do it

i tried dming once its not for me

like i feel u do soo much for too little in return or it might just be me idk

[empty thicket]

but again, that go for each one, each one can drive their car in any way they want

[lyric viper]

I think more tools to scale difficulty wouldn't be too bad, although tricky still. CR is part of it, but also tips for running a monster 'hard' or 'easy', or such in pre written modules.

[rough basalt]

I used to allow burden PCs but now I don't anymore

[mortal oriole]

man i miss my hexadin he got murked

[sand basin]

guys, it is normal that the town habitants hate me (in a camapign irl)
i mesn i just burned down a catedral

[empty thicket]

we are using a module, so we can do some sort of "speedrun" of it, 3 sessions per week

[fast latch]

Think of it like this

If Matthew Minmaxer is playing the most broken Hexadin he found on Reddit and Adam Average is playing a Tiger Totem Barbarian and Nick Newbie is playing a 2014 Assassin Rogue, it’ll be hard for Dan DM to make combat hard enough for Matthew while keeping Adam and Nick alive

[tame forge]

I don't balance. I build the world and players are free to explore. Sometimes they will find areas they are overleveled for, sometimes they mess around with shit that they have 0 chance against. Etc.

[blissful ibex]

just me it seems

[mortal oriole]

i think itd make sense to level them up ahead of the hexadin

[rough basalt]

Stuff like guidance I could get behind, nothing that forces people into anything.

[mortal oriole]

isnt CR alr guidance

[hot marlin]

But Dan DM should not be trying to make combat hard enough for Matthew or trying to keep Adam Average and Nick Newbie alive. Dan DM should be trying to make an adventuring day that takes the monster CR and the party level into account, that's it.

[tame forge]

My players know Im not afraid to kill them and are understandably wary and smart when interacting with new areas.

[worldly rain]

That is a shame, lettuce go find a DM together and search far and wide for the group we want as adventurers.

[frail wasp]

that ends up with matthew being bored tho :\

[sand basin]

make your games like a soul like (trust me)
(dont trust me)

[mortal oriole]

all games i play are soul like its pretty fun

[tame forge]

It works similarly already yeah.

[empty thicket]

this one is nice and kinda common sense, if they get into the "evil and devious cave of wendigos that eat babies" at level 2 or 3 and expect some easy thing, welp, that is on them.

[rough basalt]

What I mean is like
Hydra:
Easy: Make the party fight it in a swamp cave, so it has little maneuverability and water to hide in.
Hard: Make them fight it in a deep difficult terrain swampy lake where it can hide under the water.

[still plover]

Shouldn't be bored if he's trying to keep those casuals he hangs around with alive.

[sand basin]

you prob going all strength build

[mortal oriole]

ahh that makes sense

[mortal oriole]

all in fighter big axe

ive never played a non-martial class i wonder how it is

[tame forge]

Yeah literally.

[mortal oriole]

my human fighter has stood alot

[hot marlin]

Can't the PCs try to lure the hydra in the cave? Or ambush it while it rests? The DM doesn't really control that fully

[rough basalt]

But nothing like
"Alright DM these players wanna play on easy mode so time to say "never should've come here" and queue up the skyrim general combat music as the enemies stand still and die"

[sand basin]

hell nahhh
go guts route
two handed big damn sword
big thick armor

[frail wasp]

assuming they're putting themselves into situations where you can even put them at risk :X

and not hiding behind matthew

[mortal oriole]

characters backstory is he was a farmer non trained nothing just a brute that could handle this large axe to cut down trees

[rough basalt]

Well a difficulty slider means the DM doesn't have full control

[hot marlin]

Yeah but the difficulty slider also means nothing

[sand basin]

quite berserk reference

[mortal oriole]

paladins fighters and monks are forsho the coolest classes in dnd

[hot marlin]

The hydra lives in the swamp, sure. But how and where and when the PCs fight it is in the PCs' hands.

[tame forge]

Bard, Cleric, Warlock. You were close though.

[mortal oriole]

two sugar daddy classes aint cutting it man

[rough basalt]

Nah this is skyrim difficulty, it's just sitting there and waiting until the PCs come to the POI

[empty thicket]

my half orc fighter too, next session he is fighting the demon bidden to the cursed sword that the paladin was using.
Im using my action surge, lucky points, strike of the giant and everything to kill him.
Im getting it dead, it harmed my paladin and i wont let it slide

[sand basin]

imo i like
artificer with battle smith
i like having a robot made into a small little cutie pet

[naive cedar]

uhhhhhhhhhh excuse me

[mortal oriole]

man ive been asking my dm for a cursed weapon for so long now

[empty thicket]

my dm gave me a +1 longsword that i could sell for like 1000 or 700gp, im liking using it with duelist

[mortal oriole]

artificer banned in our games but id like to play it

[sand basin]

why???
i mean hes not THAT op

[empty thicket]

he gave us a greatsword with ice damage too and im planing to try it with great weapon fighting style

[tame forge]

You literally listed a sugar daddy class of your own.

[mortal oriole]

we were all new to the game and my DMS first time dming so artificer was just a naunce

[empty thicket]

but after the demon thing will be, now the objective is making hte demon heart stop pumping

[woven flint]

I arise!
RAAGHHHH

[naive cedar]

jokes on you my clerics god is a chick /j

[mortal oriole]

paladins aint work the same oaths dont have to be from a god

[sand basin]

i mean my first game did a artificer i heard after game the DM screams in his room cause before i burned a cathedral with a nat 20

[tame forge]

Neither does warlock have to be from a sentient creature.

[woven flint]

You know, most deities have Avatars of different Genders, I'd say Gender is pretty fluid for a Deity

[snow zephyr]

Paladins don't have to actually serve anyone or anything anymore, they just have to vaguely follow whatever the idea behind a pinky promise is

[naive cedar]

corellon my goat

[crimson gulch]

yep, their own personal oath

[mortal oriole]

take my smites im still a warrior with a sword take the patron ur nothing

[woven flint]

I'm personally a fan of Primus, they're my non-binary GOAT

[mortal oriole]

paladins are one of the most goated classes in dnd fosho

[snow zephyr]

They gain the power to kill gods because they swore vengeance on Taco Bell

[hot marlin]

If it even exists! What even is Moander's gender?

[sand basin]

guys lets Do a poll
shall i do a bard?
✅ / ❌

[mortal oriole]

wizards are also cool since they work for it

[tame forge]

Decent combat wize but boring overall.

[woven flint]

My gender is goofball.
I identify as silly.
I'm a creature.

[mortal oriole]

with their high cha i feel they can have alot of RP if theyre not played 1D to their oath

[umbral girder]

I think they are very binary

[woven flint]

Monks are super fun

[mortal oriole]

like a paladin doesnt have to be a goody two shoes

[sand basin]

@mortal oriole bro idk if shall i do a bard

[mortal oriole]

bard would be cool ngl

[woven flint]

Heheh... because they're a machine Deity!
Heheh

[tame forge]

Yeah they can but paladin players are usually the worst.

[sand basin]

ive gor some ideas, can DM?

[mortal oriole]

very fun im thinking of going echo knight x shadow monk

[mortal oriole]

i agree for the most i was a very bad paladin player

[woven flint]

Monk is notoriously bad for multiclassing, just sayin

[mortal oriole]

sure

[tame forge]

No but oathbreaker HAS TO BE EVIL. Dumb subclass.

[mortal oriole]

idk we just waive allat in our games

[mortal oriole]

yeah very MAD but we roll for it my rolls pretty neat across the board

[lyric viper]

I've only encountered a few 'bad paladin players'.

Most of the paladin PCs I've played as or with have been fun to interact with.

[tame forge]

I have yet to find a non disruptive paladin player.

[mortal oriole]

im a bad paladin player tbh for the most time i focused too much on the oaths and was jsut one dimensional doing nothing but following the oath i was a oath of conquest i felt i had to play as a edge lord idk

[tame forge]

Though to be fair I play evil PC's and typically monster races. So it's usually a bad mix..

[mortal oriole]

i feel dms have to say if the party will be good or bad beforehand

[crimson gulch]

a disruptive player is going to be disruptive no matter what build they play. its about behaviror and not whats writtien on a charicter sheet

[woven flint]

I have an idea for a Death Cleric of Baphomet, an Elderly Minotaur fellow who seeks to die in combat, but cause an absolute bloodbath before he dies, his look would probably be based off of a Cape Buffalo since they're known as "Black Death" in their country lol

[tame forge]

Oh 1000% I just usually find those people playing pally

[mortal oriole]

like ofcourse if i play a oath of devoation paladin and my friend is a assasin rogue it wont go well

[rough basalt]

Some people will use what's on a sheet to justify their bad behavior, true, but it's not what's on the sheet

[vocal vale]

Ok question for you all that buy the DnD books, where are the discounted or second hand DnD books located?

[idle oar]

2nd hand bookstores

[rough basalt]

Amazon

[tame forge]

Meh, a party is a mix right. They gotta sort out their differences.

[woven flint]

The pits of hell

[lyric viper]

I've met more disruptive wizard PCs than paladin PCs honestly.

[crimson gulch]

most 5e dnd books have kept their value quite a bit

[rough basalt]

2nd hand shops and stuff put stuff up for sale on Amazon

[vocal vale]

Like any specific location I’m talking about online or not

[rough basalt]

There's also some used book websites

[woven flint]

You gotta go through Dantes Inferno to get your books, sorry 😔

[mortal oriole]

i feel it always ends up on somone having to justify it and compromise

[hidden spindle]

Half Price Books

[crimson gulch]

Nothing beats the feeling of removing a disruptive player from the game

[hot marlin]

I can think of a few things that beat that feeling.

[vocal vale]

Are they actually half priced, or at least less?

[mortal oriole]

idk man a crit on my smites on a fiend feels better

[tame forge]

Depends on the kinda game you run. I go full grimdark and horror. Party infighting and PVP is always an option.

[hot marlin]

Counterspelling revivify. Having a PC figure out the twist you were planning just before the actual reveal...

[woven flint]

You know...
I wonder how many Tiefling PC's have been created that are named Dante lmao

[mortal oriole]

yh we got grimdark atleast the dm does but i feel some members dont like it and take it serious

[rough basalt]

Definitely a lot

[woven flint]

My Tiefling was named Karkas 🧐

[mortal oriole]

we banned revivify and any means of reviving someone dead

death has to feel final imo its more fun

[lyric viper]

while PvP can work... I've never actually seen it work properly. There's always some derailing of the game, or some tense feelings out of character.

[woven flint]

You remember Karlas, don't ya?
I only always bring him up when I talk about my favorite personal Cleric pcs 💀

[lyric viper]

Maybe in a shorter game, or such but.. hmm.

[wraith cairn]

Hey

[rough basalt]

Yeah

[mortal oriole]

yesterday i pvped my friend and won and he lowk off today it carries over

[rough basalt]

I've seen PvP work well

[tame forge]

I guess you can see how my old Harpy Necromancer who crafts cursed objects and commits ritualistic murder, or my current Ghoul PC who feeds off the flesh of its undead sister to parasitize her memories to relive their childhood could have some clashes with paladin players.

[rough basalt]

Tho campaign died after it cause a player threw a tantrum over the party not being the same as when it started and another left cause of the consequences of their actions.

[mortal oriole]

tbh my friends and i arent the best at rp or playing so we take it more personal

[mortal oriole]

youd like my first paladin he was goated everytime something bad happened he closed his eyes and called it a day

[tame forge]

That would be the day.

[mortal oriole]

aint break my oath if i didnt see it

my dm doesnt really care abt oaths for paladins he just sees them as character arcs if they break it like theres no mechanics behind it even if i were to kill or whatever

[rough basalt]

I played one character that turned evil in a campaign and it was my favorite character still, but most of my characters gravitate towards neutrality or heroism.

My closest recent character to an evil character in a regular campaign is my rogue

[severe rampart]

well in this campaign my character is quite literally going to hell

[woven flint]

I'm personally a fan of Character VS Self,
My Dragonborn Fighter, Orizontas, is currently at his lowest point in trust with himself, he feels like an idiot because he feels like some of his actions have nearly costed the party their lives, even if they really didn't, he knows his actions has costed the life of his horse and can't bare to call himself a Knight anymore at the moment

[mortal oriole]

my first character went to hell

[rough basalt]

She used to be leaning towards evil, but she leans more towards good now.

[severe rampart]

to whoever said that, PLEASE don't disclose your age here

[mortal oriole]

he was a paladin ..... he ended up in hell

[severe rampart]

Will, don't worry, as long as your storytelling is alright they won't mind

[woeful heart]

Alright thank u

[tame forge]

Oh so you aren't even playing a paladin.

[woeful heart]

I didnt realise until now u couldnt say ur age

[mortal oriole]

yh tbh im just a fighter who can smite more of

[lyric viper]

Please do read our #rules !

[tame forge]

Fair lol

[severe rampart]

Honest mistake, but the internet is a dangerous place to be giving out personal information like candy

[mortal oriole]

he doesnt like the confinements of classes so its pretty cool

[woeful heart]

Ohh alright

[mortal oriole]

man i love smiting its the best thing in dnd

[tame forge]

Kinda like how you never give a Fae your name.

[woven flint]

I think People sometimes take Paladin Oaths a little too strictly, while, in fact, most Paladin Oaths are like "Hey, if it's within your control, do this, but if it causes too much harm, don't do it!"

[woeful heart]

Fae?

[rough basalt]

Reminds me, someone in my Monday game gave their name to someone they believe they shouldn't have.

[lyric viper]

Paladin Oaths can be something fun to wrestle with.

[woven flint]

Damnit, Vakbo 😭

[tame forge]

Once you know, you will know.

[mortal oriole]

i just use it as character arcs, when i take it and when i break it

[woven flint]

Silly little Kobld.
Giving his name to random people in the woods and causing his Dragonborn boyfriend to worry

[mortal oriole]

hitting a crit and having the slots to smite is no.1 feeling

[lyric viper]

One of my favourite PCs was a Paladin in 3.5 (When Paladin was embodying Lawful Good) who had to wrestle with his country and religious order not being as 'good' as he'd was raised to believe. Questioning orders and falling in love with someone who was chaotic neutral at best.

Never got to finish his arc, but it was fun while it lasted.

[rough basalt]

Just a random lone too clean for the enviroment beautiful woman in the woods, what's the danger.

[mortal oriole]

damn

id hate not finishing a character arc

tbh we dont have romance in our games i wonder how people play it with romance

[rough basalt]

The right kind of maturity I think.

For it to be done right anyhow.

[mortal oriole]

i mean i play with my irl friends theyre all guys i just cant see their character as not them idk

[frail cradle]

what are the best 6 Artificer infusions for a level 8 battle smith?

[rough basalt]

Can't flirt with the homies?

[severe rampart]

in your guys' opinions, do tails or snouts count as extra limbs?

[mortal oriole]

look man im not sitting across my bald friend and flirting with him

[lyric viper]

I've also played a LE Warlock in a game with a LG Paladin.
It did end with the Paladin smite critting the Warlock, after the warlock finaly got hold of the artifact his patron had quested him to get and the paladin was like 'Whoah hey, that things evil' and finally giving up on trying to redeem the warlock after 'lock refused to abandon it.

Paladin didn't kill him though- just took the artifact and left. Caused the Warlock's patron to reject him. Would be fun to have seen what would have happened next.

[severe rampart]

"You know, you shine brighter than the sun, and twice as radiant"

[mortal oriole]

its not even about genderlike even if it was a girl i just dont think i can seperate them im not good at rp

[umbral girder]

Not sure on snouts. I can see an argument for tails.

[mortal oriole]

headbutt deals radiant damage

[severe rampart]

Kobolds are humanoid and small, I can turn into kobolds

[lyric viper]

Tails yes, snouts no.
Tails very yes if they mechanically change anything.

[rough basalt]

Fair enough.

[still plover]

If prehensile, yeah. But game rules and features will say for certain.

[severe rampart]

Interesting message to reply to

[rough basalt]

I don't do romance in dnd either.

[still plover]

Re: snouts, think elephants.

[severe rampart]

Snouts as in Kobolds, Tails as in Kobolds

[lyric viper]

Trunks yes.

[umbral girder]

Yeah why roleplay romance when you can just do romance? /jk

[severe rampart]

I'm just saying, if my kobold friend can sit in a barrel of water while we're in hell, I'm gonna turn into a kobold and sit with him

[woven flint]

In Soras Monday Game
My Dragonborn Fighter, Orizontas, is dating another characters Kobold Monk, Vakbo
Orizontas proves to be the more mentally matured person, but Vakbo is emotionally wise and has lived through a life of loss.
They both watch eachothers backs and are there for eachother, but they also understand that they need to be their own people sometimes

[still plover]

Oh, well in that case, no to both.

[rough basalt]

All my NPCs are either Ace, taken, or interested in someone else. And all my PCs are either in a committed relationship or Ace.

[severe rampart]

holy hell has this sentence been said before

[mortal oriole]

all my pcs are edge lords or fighting junkies

as mature as a rock the lot of them

[lyric viper]

My PCs are schrodinger's orientation until something happens that I think will be interesting.

Often they just end up in queerplatonic relationships with other PCs anyway.

[rough basalt]

I don't know what that is, so I can't roleplay it.

[mortal oriole]

yk the chemistry between my friends and i in dnd is kind of bad but theyre the only group ik so might as well

[severe rampart]

Asexual until proven otherwise

[mortal oriole]

like the dm should've written a book and the other one keeps on lying for aura moments and im pretty sure im not that good at rp either like its such a weird mix

[rough basalt]

Might be better to say shrodingers orientation for mine as well lol

[still plover]

Slane the rogue was kinda dating someone for a hot minute. They both knew it was over when Slane put a weapon on the table.

De Vor cleaves only unto her patron and that's a barrel of laughs for everyone, and Zola is an absolute stray cat.

[woven flint]

Most of my characters aren't really romantic, but there's a few exceptions
My Drow Druid, Vaskhir, dated an Owlin fellow named Caspian.

Auronoth, my Goliath Elements Monk, fell in love with a demon (mutually) when they were fighting eachother

And Orizontas is in a gay relationship with a Kobold lmao

[rough basalt]

Cause if another player approached me and asked to do a romance and I trusted them, I'd probably try it.

[woven flint]

All are gay, it's glorious

[mortal oriole]

nah ion got it in me to even consider romance

[severe rampart]

I'm sorry, fell in love with a demon?

[sand basin]

im scared to play dnd again what I do

[lyric viper]

I mean, not even ace. I have some characters who are 100% ace. But some are just '????' until some RP comes up that seems fun comes up.
And one or two PCs where I was knew from the very start. But usually 'as the narrative flows'.

[woven flint]

Yes, a Lawful Good Demigod Monk..
Fell in love with a Chaotic Evil Demon.
They found a place in the hells relatively safe for them to live out their lives together

[fast latch]

I never romance my players, so I make my own NPCs fall in love with each other

[mortal oriole]

man people who can rp good must be having more fun in dnd

[umbral girder]

Mine just won’t hang with people who have a job with a super high mortality rate (adventuring)

[rough basalt]

My Rogue had a "husband"

[umbral girder]

For taxes purposes no doubt /jk

[woven flint]

Auronoth is a descendant of a Fire Giant God, so he doesn't mind the heat of the hells... or his demonic husband 😎

[severe rampart]

"Get out of that circle of salt and talk to me!" "Not until you stop your blood rituals!"

[mortal oriole]

only spouses my characters had are dead in their backstory for edge lordness thats it

[rough basalt]

For that free city healthcare

[fast latch]

Your DM let you be the descendant of a god?!

[woven flint]

Auronoth is helping him become "better" as a person, but he also understands that his husband was born in a plane of Evil, and he accepts him as a person

[mortal oriole]

real

[woven flint]

It was a oneshot, all the PCs were demigods

[severe rampart]

was that a percy jackson oneshot

[hot marlin]

Why not?

[mortal oriole]

lowk my dm allowed my shadow to be a dragon demi god thats hiding in my shadow and for me to be born with the soul of hell

[hot marlin]

I've played a character whose grandfather was revealed to be the king of the gods.

[mortal oriole]

then i died but it was fun while it lasted

[fast latch]

THAT GIVES ME AN IDEA!!!

One-shot where every player is a demigod and rolls 4d6 no modifiers for their stats

Everyone ends up with god stats

[rough basalt]

I've had a PC that was a descendant of Selune which was fun

[woven flint]

Nope,we were fighting a Giant Deity of death and decay.
My fella actually got the last hit off, it was fun 😎

[rough basalt]

Her family name was Fullmoon

[lyric viper]

I think the most dramatic thing that came out of a romance in my game was the CG Cleric's ill advised fling with a Cambion he was trying to redeem.
The tragic thing was that the Cambion genuinely felt something back, but his morals and outlook on the world meant that his idea of 'helping' ended up with the Cleric having to swear to kill him on sight, after the Cambion decided to help by 'taking out political competition' and could have caused the Cleric and his whole village to be disgraced and attacked.

[mortal oriole]

most of my characters are orphans with no last name

[severe rampart]

in my campaign we have to kill Baphomet the Demon Lord

[woven flint]

One of my other characters, Xolba, is a "sort of" descendant of a 'Deity', he was created by the Elder Evil, Caiphon, the purple star.
He himself wasn't really evil though

[mortal oriole]

like i find it so cool to have a human fighter having no advantage nothing standing shoulder to shoulder with demi gods wizards sorcerers etc

[rough basalt]

He wasn't an elder yet for the evil to kick in

[umbral girder]

Oh yeah my Wizard managed to skip the boss’ 2nd phase with spamming Disintegrate

[rough basalt]

You gotta be an elder before you can get the evil

[umbral girder]

Also I was stunned for 1 hour and 10 minutes. (In real time)

[severe rampart]

alright, if everything goes well, in two days will be my first drop of DnD in a year

[rough basalt]

Monday is mine but I might have to push it another Monday

[frail wasp]

i think i'm gonna need to learn the basics of how to run romance soon, gotta hunt down advice for how to do it soon

[rough basalt]

I think there's a 3rd party book for it

[mortal oriole]

i wanna try playing with new people see if theres any difference

[rough basalt]

"How to rizz up your fellow players at the table"

[woven flint]

The best way to do a romance is to let it form naturally, or, if it's pre-planned, make the relationships new, and don't be too insanely lovey dovey as it could get uncomfortable lol

[rough basalt]

Honestly the thing with romance is that you often overthink it, even if it's just roleplay

[severe rampart]

what's great with knowing a different language than my fellow party members is I get to use my native language so both in real life and in-game they wont understand what I'm saying

[mortal oriole]

id ony romance if i was with the person irl as well tbh i find it too weird for me to work

[rough basalt]

Tbh that might be the situation where I'd be comfortable with it as well

[jolly hound]

What’s everyone’s favorite subclass

[frail wasp]

i have no instincts for what any of that means :X

[rough basalt]

Tho I don't really treat people I'm dating that much differently than friends.

[worldly rain]

Juggernaut barbarian.

Unnerfed and original.

[uncut zenith]

Berserker?

[worldly rain]

No, I enjoy dealing knockback.

It all averages to one really dead dragon.

[uncut zenith]

Oh do you mean the CR one?

[rough basalt]

Juggernaut Barb is from the 3rd party Tal Dorei book iirc

[mortal oriole]

way of the open hand or echo knight or oathbreaker tbh

[worldly rain]

In the gestalt I want to use juggernaut barbarian and echoknight.

[mortal oriole]

i wanna go echo knight x cleric of trickery it might be fun

[worldly rain]

I am just waiting for a DM to look over the party and pick up the foreverplayers

[sonic shard]

Hey, if a player is in the corner of a room with wall on his back and there is a monster in front of him, does he have disadvantage like when he's between 2 monsters ?
Idk if its understable 😅

[woven flint]

My favorite Subclass is tough, but I'll name a few
War Cleric, Mercy Monk, Bladesinger Wizard, Berserker Barbarian, Cavalier Fighter, Aberrant Mind Sorcerer and Thief Rogue

[severe rampart]

I dont think so, since the wall can't really move or attack him in a way he feels overwhelmed than when 2 monsters are sandwiching him

[mortal oriole]

back to wall no space to dodge or hit comforable id lowk rule it as yes

[jolly hound]

Out of the ones I’ve played I’d say hexblade

[worldly rain]

Just force normal rolls with juggernaut barbarian.

[umbral girder]

Not unless it’s a ranged attack

[severe rampart]

also where are his fellow party members

[lyric viper]

Is the monster kabedon'ing the PC?

[mortal oriole]

he tried to aura farm and it bit him

[severe rampart]

are they also in the other corners? all 4 of them are being sandwiched by corners? 😭

[mortal oriole]

my paladin died due to trying to aura farm man i miss him

[woven flint]

Juggernaut Barbarian wasn't an officially published subclass, alas, it was Unearthed Arcana, which is playtesting, which most dms don't allow lol

Unless you're talking about a homebrew or third party

[mortal oriole]

tbh i feel most dms allow unearthed arcana atleast the ones i know

[still plover]

Your table may vary.

[worldly rain]

I can see why it is disallowed because that sweet sweet knockback could be used to force falldamage,

[mortal oriole]

i had a cultivator class it was fun

[woven flint]

Honestly, lots of Unearthed Arcana is just.. bad.. weak.. or stupid 😭
Looks over at Pyromancer Sorcerer

[mortal oriole]

ill never forget my OP cultivator class

[worldly rain]

Unlike the rest of the knockback builds juggernaut barbarian is just that something special I can endorse and endure since it is only as balanced as the map hazzards can be.

[mortal oriole]

man it was such BS i had to nerf myself but the flavor was fun

[woven flint]

I just want Psion to come out so I can play a Metamorph Psion and do some more freaky Body Hortor shit lol

[mortal oriole]

also why cant there be items to raise unarmed strikes damage? like why must it be 1d4 only and the only way to inc is go monk os special stuff

[worldly rain]

I flavor it halberd as a whip with polearm master and UA tunnel fighter, the balanced part of it is where it would be only one attack per creature per turn.

[severe rampart]

"think you can hurt me? go on, try it, right here"

Rolls a Nat 20

[mortal oriole]

my paladin tried clearing a fiend nest while his friends call for help, fair to say im rolling a new character now

[severe rampart]

Never split the party 😭

[mortal oriole]

the aura farming moment was there man

i had everything smite slots good items cant believe he died

[severe rampart]

the party wasn't even in any real danger, if you guys stuck together you probably wouldn't have died

[mortal oriole]

i think the dm got mad i even tried it he just insta killed me

[severe rampart]

my DM is making it clear that the campaign will be hellish literally

I prepared Fireball then he reminded me "Fireball? you're quite literally going to hell"

[mortal oriole]

like he just said this aint disney then disintegerated me

[mortal oriole]

lowk more fun

we banned revivy and any ressuruction spells

[severe rampart]

"you should think of ways to not be cooked to death" he said

[rugged hawk]

Again, Leomund's Hut but make it mobile

[severe rampart]

that's what the Kobold is doing

and I'm gonna use Shapechanger to turn into a kobold as well and join him

[rugged hawk]

And then someone will pull out an Antimagic Gem and passively fry you all

[severe rampart]

I roll for persuasion to try and persuade them not to

[pastel cobalt]

Here’s a build question! How viable are Bardic Ranger builds?

[rugged hawk]

I know Drizzt had an antimagic gem at one point, but it got turned to dust when it encountered a really strong magic, but for the life of me, I can't remember what did it in.

[umbral girder]

The Crystal Shard

It blasted it to dust when they came in contact.

Left the Shard very weakened tho.

[rugged hawk]

Crystal Shard.... I remember there being a shard, that red mind crystal the hobbit had....

[umbral girder]

It wasn’t Drizzt who had it

[rugged hawk]

Wasn't the Crystal Shard you're referring to sentient or something?

[umbral girder]

Yes

[fiery nimbus]

Problem with this build is stat split forcing you both into wisdom and charisma and Dex all at once

[pastel cobalt]

I know

[umbral girder]

It was the Balor who had it, when the Crystal tried forcing its way the Balor used the gem.

He got the gem from Lolth

[pastel cobalt]

The challenge comes from how overall practical it is, ignoring stats (there’s ways around that).

[fiery nimbus]

If you know than you just need to find a way to cope with self-imposed weaknesses most likely coming from weak con

[rugged hawk]

OH RIGHT, it was Crenshinibon!

Yeah, the crystal that made towers and influenced wielders...

[umbral girder]

I love that Artemis Entreri was immune to the Shard’s mental influences because he was just that tired and mad at the Shard’s shenanigans

[rugged hawk]

Entreri was always getting done dirty. Tbf though, he definitely deserved it.

[still plover]

What features do you see working well together?

[umbral girder]

The Sellswords trilogy really got me liking the dynamic of Jarlaxle and Artemis

Jarlaxle out here wanting to enjoy some Dungeons & Dragons while dragging Entreri across Faerun

“What if we anger 7 level 20 characters for the lolz?”

[fiery nimbus]

well i see, but i don't really see the need for any ranger features in this idea

[severe rampart]

I keep accidentally giving my DM ideas, bad ideas

[fiery nimbus]

you can just go pure bard and flavour it as nature based caster

[rugged hawk]

Or, you know, keeping Entreri from getting stabbed by his girlfriend. Honestly, Enteri would probably have preferred to just die instead.

[fiery nimbus]

oh i keep sending my DM monsters that will perfectely counter our party line up

[pastel cobalt]

Why did my message get deleted?

[fiery nimbus]

oh because its not #character-discussion

[pastel cobalt]

Fair

[hollow stone]

i mean a druid is a bard for animals

[still plover]

I would guess the m word, personally. A travelling performer? You don't need a multiclass for that. My rogue is that!

[severe rampart]

The DM sent art of a dark, long hallway littered with skulls, I commented "I feel like one of them will lunge and grab my leg"

[woven flint]

I return from...
The Shower Dimension!
I'm now a squeaky clean lord of silly

[woven flint]

I take great offense!
Comparing Druid to.. BARDS?!

Bards... eugh.

[pastel cobalt]

I guess that’s a fair point

I’ll just save this build for a different game, then

[fiery nimbus]

STR saving throw doesn't sound all that scary

[severe rampart]

my character has 10 strength as a level 7

[fiery nimbus]

personally i would give you an NPC that would get pulled upwards at some point

[umbral girder]

My favorite strength saving throw effect is the Black Hole attack

[fiery nimbus]

surprise, the corridor is a home to Shadows

[umbral girder]

From Amethyst Dragons

[severe rampart]

not that bad considering we're in hell

[still plover]

Better than my warlocks.

[woven flint]

Even then , Strength saves aren't typically that worrisome unless it's shadows lol

[fiery nimbus]

oh in this case Shadow Demons

did you just said Shadows are not too bad with 10 STR score?

do you want to die?

[woven flint]

Shadows and Intellect Devourers are scary even for high level parties

[pastel cobalt]

You were right. Combining with the term “Ritualist”, and it gave the dev team the wrong impression.

I wasn’t thinking of that. I just thought of playing my Fairy Bardic ranger, in some way, in 5e

[woven flint]

Idea, Valor Bard for the Ranger effect

[severe rampart]

oh my god, I am so sorry, I just checked and EVERY one of my skills and attacks do NOTHING against it

[pastel cobalt]

Okay

[severe rampart]

except Spirit Guardians

[fiery nimbus]

I was wondering why are you so brave against enemy that can and will kill you in 4 attacks if you are unlucky

[severe rampart]

I thought *it can't be that bad, I mean, we're already going against Demons"

I didn't know it was resistant and immune to nearly EVERYTHING

[woven flint]

Enemies that are very good at Ambushes too

Not to mention, Shadows often come in groups

[severe rampart]

Could I use bardic inspiration on myself?

[woven flint]

Nope

[severe rampart]

alright well half of the party are bards

[woven flint]

Bards can't give themselves inspiration

[hollow stone]

i mean you can do that too if you Aasimar Wildheart Barbarian Bear Rage

[woven flint]

With a ring of force resistance

But you don't resist psychic then

[hollow stone]

yea then your only weak to Psychic

[severe rampart]

how did my character go from a con artist to on a quest to kill the demon lord Baphomet

[woven flint]

I hope he slaughters your party

Sorry, I'm a Baphomet glazer

You're lucky you get to bask in his glory!

[hollow stone]

to con the ultimate con artist of course, once you con a devil you are the Con Lord

[woven flint]

Baphomet is a Demon, not a Devil

And Demons don't make deals

[severe rampart]

and a minotaur

[hollow stone]

oh, kill him for being too weak to con people then

[umbral girder]

I got an amusing head canon on Baphomet

[hollow stone]

REAL fiends be scammin

[woven flint]

Okay, Demons are NOT weak lmao

Demons are nearly an infinite population as well.

[hot marlin]

They certainly do!

They're just not legally and magically bound by them

[woven flint]

There are more demons than anything else in the realms

[halcyon forum]

ehh sometimes they do. depends on the demon

[hot marlin]

Answered the wrong message btw, meant to answer "demons don't make deals"

[umbral girder]

So since MotM there has been talking about if Baphomet or The Lady of Pain created the first Minotaurs.

I offer the theory of “What if Baphomet was the monster in the Lady of Pain’s mazes, and he got out?”

[hot marlin]

What if Baphomet is the Lady of Pain?

[woven flint]

Graz'zt and the charismatic Demogorgon head are tge only ones that strike me as dealmakers

[severe rampart]

what if Baphomet and Lady of Pain made the minotaurs together?

[rugged hawk]

Lady of Pain doesn't collaborate with anyone.

[woven flint]

Nah, Baphomet just changed his worshippers into his image, like a Chad

It's a boon! A blessing. To be as beautiful as the beast king!

[severe rampart]

I think Tokii REALLY likes Baphomet

[hollow stone]

tokii is baphomet

[fiery nimbus]

oh its not their worst feature, damn near invisibility and ability drain combined with Atrophy instant kill ability is the real issue

[hot marlin]

Dagon. Pazuzu. Pale Night.

[woven flint]

Also, hate gnolls.
Minotaur and Gnolls have a legendary beef because Yenoghu and Baphomet hate eachothers guts.

[umbral girder]

Also they share similarities

[hot marlin]

The Dabus work for her

[severe rampart]

could I detect magic or dispel magic their invisibility?

[umbral girder]

Shoutout to the Dabuus

They speak in Emoji.

[woven flint]

Honestly, most of the Demon Lord's hate eachother and that's one of the Demons biggest weaknesses.
They don't like working together

[hot marlin]

Nope!

[fiery nimbus]

its not magical, its also not a real invisibility, so long its dark they can hide at will

you can just cast light spells though

[woven flint]

Fair, but they're former Demon Lords!

[hot marlin]

Casting a light spell is generally the first thing you do against shadows

[woven flint]

They aren't Lord's anymore smh..

[hot marlin]

No, they're still lords

Pazuzu is still one of the most powerful demons in the Abyss. Dagon is still one of the most politically influencial ones

[woven flint]

Demogorgon literally took Dagons place though, no? 😭

[severe rampart]

I have zero light spells.

[hot marlin]

No. Dagon still has his place and Demogorgon can't really rule where Dagon lives

[fiery nimbus]

If you have one, most people don't carry those for some reason

this "i have darkvision" makes them weak

[severe rampart]

hear me out. Could I charm a shadow

[fiery nimbus]

vulnerable

[fiery nimbus]

wierdly enough, yes

[woven flint]

Aren't most Demons immune to charm...
Or wait, no, that's Devils, right?

[severe rampart]

do they travel in packs?

[fiery nimbus]

also yes

[severe rampart]

guess I'll have to charm every shadow then

[umbral girder]

They are undead so most charms don’t effect them due to creature type

[fiery nimbus]

or you can light a torch

[umbral girder]

Charms tend to be specific with creature types

[severe rampart]

Are they humanoid perhaps

[fiery nimbus]

well their statblock doesn't have charm immunity, if they find a spell that is universtal, hell why not

[umbral girder]

No

[woven flint]

No. They're Undead lol

[fiery nimbus]

nope

[umbral girder]

They are Undead.

[severe rampart]

oh man I can't even turn into a shadow

[woven flint]

Creatures don't typically have more than one creature type either

[fiery nimbus]

But yea, Shadows are straight up a nightmare

[umbral girder]

Yeah it’s just creature type and maybe specifies even further what type of creature

[fiery nimbus]

since even if you beat the encounter, your STR score is weakened until you rest
if the DM goes for Shadow followed by STR intensive encounter, you are boned

[severe rampart]

is Radiant really the ONLY thing that can harm them?

[umbral girder]

Like how you can get Fiend (Devil)

[fiery nimbus]

no, they are resistant not immune

[umbral girder]

You could do half damage with other types

[severe rampart]

yeah but half damage is like a tickle

[woven flint]

Damage is still damage

If you're doing damage, you're still furthering the goals to kill something

[hot marlin]

They have 16 hp, it's not much.

[severe rampart]

their highest possible hp is 27 right?

[umbral girder]

In 2024 they do not resist BPS notably

[umbral girder]

That’s their average.

45 is how high they can get.

[severe rampart]

oh my god.

[umbral girder]

Spellcasters issues

[woven flint]

The biggest thing with Shadows is just making it harder for them to get to you.

You mentioned you're level 7 and have Spirit Gaurdians, that pretty much solves your issue

[severe rampart]

I'M A BARD AND I CAN'T CHARM THEM, what do I do

[woven flint]

Literally anything else

[fiery nimbus]

again your DM is not aware we had this conversation and i doubt he would put Shadows instead of Shadow Demons there

[severe rampart]

yeah I mean I GUESS sure I can cast that

[umbral girder]

Buff your allies

[severe rampart]

you're right

[fiery nimbus]

wait a moment, who is your DM, let me message them the statblock for Shadows

[severe rampart]

NO

I already gave him the idea of making a town full of mind flayers

well, probably towns, plural

[umbral girder]

How about the Cr8 Shadow Assassins? They are Shadows who have way more Hp, speed, AC, and a Lot more attacks and damage

[fiery nimbus]

town full of mind flayers is not too bad, at least you didn't send him the stablock for Ilithid Dragon

[woven flint]

Then don't say things to give your dms ideas to bite you in the ass later lol

[severe rampart]

what if I like that

[fiery nimbus]

Illithid Dragon is the fun monster that can potentiatly end the entire world

[severe rampart]

what if I like a harder challenge

[umbral girder]

My players wrecked an Elder Brain dragon the other week

[severe rampart]

but apparently, this is supposed to go even harder because we're supposed to end the campaign at level 20

[woven flint]

What if your party doesn't?
Also, you're a Bard, playing bard is enough of a challenge lmao

[severe rampart]

3/6 members are bards

[woven flint]

That's a horrible team composition (pun intended)

[rugged hawk]

Okay, but how about an Aberrant Tarrasqlich?

[woven flint]

I'd give up if half of my party was bards to be blunt lmao

[umbral girder]

Yeah no doubt they could

[fiery nimbus]

well problem with this monster isn't fighting it, it's whats going to happen if it gets away

how many cities will he convert until you can catch up to him and slay it?

[umbral girder]

Was that hard tbh, they have the damage to do so

[naive cedar]

tbf bards are quite versatile

[umbral girder]

The dragon tried planes shifting away

[severe rampart]

Bards are VERY diverse

[umbral girder]

But the party just plane shifted after it.

[hot marlin]

Although Elder Brain dragons are not actually that dangerous. In truth I always found their statblock less scary than the elder brain.

[woven flint]

I'm a certified Bard hater.

I don't hate them as much as Rangers though.

And it's not because I think they're bad.
I just don't enjoy how either play..
And don't enjoy their players lots of the time /Half-Joke

[severe rampart]

We have a Swords Bard, Lore Bard, and a Glamour Bard

[hot marlin]

It lacks the elder brain's ability to just screw you completely, its legendary actions are lackluster, its breath weapon is a line, objectively the worst type.

[fiery nimbus]

it's a flying monster, it can just fly away instead of attacking you
Frankly if i would to use this monster i would do just that

Either party finds a way to ground and kill it, or they lose

[woven flint]

Valor Bard would've been better than a stinky swords Bard smh.

[severe rampart]

The Swords bard is a multiclass of a Warlock

[umbral girder]

Yeah they flew after it

[fiery nimbus]

If you can't ground a dragon you do not deserve to win

[umbral girder]

We went from levels 1 to 20 they got the loot and features

[hollow stone]

Anti Airborne Weapon Mastery

[woven flint]

Bard and Ranger are the only classes I don't like

[hollow stone]

we need a weapon that can punch holes in wings to ground opponents

[fiery nimbus]

Ilithid Dragon is a real issue, there are few monsters that are even close to as game changing as it

[umbral girder]

Eh

[woven flint]

Looks at Celestials, Fiends, Fey and other extraplanar creatures

I dunno, some of these are strong enough to do whatever the hell they want if they aren't stopped

[hot marlin]

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I'm glad the Illithid Dragon did not come back

I always found the concept to be cheap and clumsy.

[umbral girder]

It’s very easy to get around

[woven flint]

Imagine with me, if you will.
A Chaotic Evil Emperyan (as it is possible) starting a new false religion and how fast it'd spread because it's a literal angle, how fast that could change everything

[umbral girder]

Like the breath attack seems scary until you see it’s easy to undo with decent healing, or just killing the infected

[hollow stone]

tbh i can't get into Bard, Druid, or Wizard. all the other classes i see some multiclass use of at the least but those three i can't really get into

[umbral girder]

You have 6d12 hours after all

[hot marlin]

What kind of angle? How many degrees?

[woven flint]

The joy of playing a class isn't ALWAYS Multiclassing

[hot marlin]

Actually once the person is unconscious, the only way is to use wish

[umbral girder]

Alright, then just kill them

Also it’s humanoid only too

[woven flint]

I've found that not multiclassing is Franky a very joyful experience for Druids, Wizards and.. even Bards.

[hollow stone]

i mean if we're talking multiclass excluding then i'm only that into Warlock, Rogue, and Fighter

[woven flint]

Because they don't NEED it anyway
No class does

[umbral girder]

Also it’s not like resurrecting the dead person is impossible too

[woven flint]

We weren't.
I was talking about classes I just don't like.. you said you didn't like certain classes because of lacking multiclass capabilities, not conversation changing, but just throwing it out there, I don't multiclass because I personally think it takes away from a Character..
Especially spellcasters

[fiery nimbus]

One powerful monster is not all that bad
One Powerful monster capable of turning other creatures into other powerful monsters...

[woven flint]

Some of those creatures don't even have to do that to be a considerable or world ending threat.

[hollow stone]

mechanically? you're probably right. but i play DND with writing in mind

[umbral girder]

Bro seeing Cr7 and deciding “powerful”

[woven flint]

That's a nonsensical argument, not to be rude.
You can write a character without multiclassing.

[fiery nimbus]

again, no monster in Monster Manual comes even close to the world ending threat, Elder Brain Dragon is as close as it gets

[hollow stone]

that's not an argument, i'm saying that me, bebe frog, as a person, does no such wanna

[woven flint]

My Warlock doesn't need to be a Fighter, Barbarian, ect to be good at Melee combat or a competent fighter

[umbral girder]

Besides the Tarrasque which just spawns more Tarrasques on death

Or the Mummy Lord who can rewrite timelines

[woven flint]

My Bard doesn't need to be a Druid to do nature things

My Cleric doesn't have to be a Bard to be friendly, outgoing or good at playing instruments

[umbral girder]

Or the Shadow Dragon which makes more Shadows

[marble lion]

But inspiration is neat

[rugged hawk]

But you do need to be a warlock to sell your tail to a GOO

[marble lion]

And casting with an instrument

[umbral girder]

Shadows are less likely to turn on their dragon like Mind Flayers after all

[marble lion]

Not really no

[woven flint]

You don't have to be a Warlock to make pacts.

[marble lion]

Any class can have a pact tbh

[rugged hawk]

I demand this option on DNDB

[marble lion]

Its already on it

[rugged hawk]

Also i demand dragon patrons

[marble lion]

Having a pact is pure lore

[rugged hawk]

If you mean Dark Bargain, we need more

[marble lion]

You can already do it in dndb

[umbral girder]

Also even better for the Shadow Dragon, their shadows also make more Shadows too

[woven flint]

My Bladesinger Wizard is currently in a pact with a Knowledge Deity to use her Artifact, for example, but he's not a warlock.

[marble lion]

A barbarian could say that his rage comes from a patron

A cleric could say hes worshipping and a warlock of some or other being

A paladin too

[fiery nimbus]

wait, that one is actually in Monster Manual?

[hot marlin]

Fiend pact for Tiamat, celestial pact for Bahamut. You're welcome

[marble lion]

Anyone can have a pact in lore

[fiery nimbus]

Now you are just pulling my leg

[rugged hawk]

And what pact for dracolich?

[woven flint]

Pacts, Worshipping a Diety, anything can come from just plain storytelling.
You don't have to be class-locked or multiclass or whatever.

[umbral girder]

That’s in the 2025 Monster Manual

[hot marlin]

Undead patron.

[umbral girder]

One of the plots for Mummy Lords is about going back in time

If you think Elder Brain Dragons are more dangerous than the MM you might have to reread the MM

[fiery nimbus]

is it on the statblock though?

[rugged hawk]

Ugh. Undead and Undying made me sad to see, because I'm a big fan of the altered self of Undead Patron, but not a fan of its spirit aspect, whereas Undying has some things I'd rather have, and some I'd prefer mechanics from Undead patron instead

[woven flint]

Flavor is free