#dnd-lore

1 messages ¡ Page 6 of 1

vernal geode
#

And mortals worship them

prime bronze
#

Yeah, they were enslaved by Yuan-Ti Anathemas and a horde of other Yuan-Tis in this context

mystic merlin
#

There are good undead, but they are not undead. They are called Deathless and are less permanent, or at least less continuous.

Deathless form when enchanting a noble, still living creature or when the gods smile upon a dying creature which is losing its life honorably and nobly.

The older brother who is killed by demons protecting his family can arise as a deathless spectral warrior. A librarian who spends centuries preserving knowledge for good can be allowed to return to their dust and be a sort of kindly, guiding zombie (but only when a guide is needed), etc

#

Deathless are like undead but are powered by positive energy and not inherently evil.

vernal geode
#

Also, this is what most powerful mages do anyways

#

Like archmages usually starts a country

prime bronze
#

So no one has any idea on what happens to these guys?

vernal geode
#

Or a kingdom

#

I am not familiar with Naga's, I only used them once in my campaigns and that was a powerful Naga who ruled over a vast territory

#

@main palm depending on the mage they could go about it in different ways, some marry into the royal family, some just murder the ruling family and take over, some just get into power by popular demand from the population

#

Remember tho, mage kings/queens usually aren't good rulers

main palm
#

Why aren't they good rulers?

wraith cypress
#

Or it's explicit something for the celestials

vernal geode
# main palm Why aren't they good rulers?

Wizards in general are power hungry, most mage kings/queens are tyrants and they waste a lot of recourses on research and arcane studies then basic needs for the population, there is some good mage rulers but generally they are rare

mystic merlin
#

I think it can be done by some priestly spells though? I would have to look

storm dagger
white ravine
#

If the pocket plane is destroyed with the naga and it's soul is still intact, then it'd most likely end up in whichever is the most 'convenient' location for it to respawn.

#

Anywhere with solid ground and breathable air would most likely work, even if it is the rancid dirt of the Abyss.

wraith cypress
white ravine
woeful cove
#

Does Zariel canonically get redeemed

crude blaze
#

Sorta, but also not quite

#

Descent into Avernus spoiler, but ||it is purposely left open-ended, so it's only "canon" if that's what happened with your group||

woeful cove
#

I mean the entire story is lined up so that you redeem her

#

There is only one ending without redeeming

unkempt merlin
#

Fwiw in Baldurs Gate 3 ||she isn't redeemed. Status quo is kept for the setting||

analog oxide
#

is tehre an option to just fight and destroy her?

grim dagger
mellow ferry
# woeful cove Does Zariel canonically get redeemed

||Baldur's Gate III says no. Idle Champions of the Forgotten Realms says yes. Official Adventurers League suggests a middle ground, that she is not redeemed, but instead has disappeared, perhaps to battle demons instead of furthering her own evil plots.||

mystic merlin
#

Officially, the canon of a module is only what is contained in that module, so until there’s a descent into Avernus 2: this time it’s personal, we cannot know.

snow laurel
#

is it accurate to say that the gate towns of the outer planes are "suburbs" of sigil?

outer apex
#

I don't know I would call them suburbs, more of a transient zone between planes, since they could just go poof and other ones appear to take their place

snow laurel
#

Also in extending my analogy of "Sigil is like high fantasy New York filled with the most obnoxious stereotypes of New Yorkers", I've decided every Cager will constantly dunk on and deride the Radiant Citadel as Sigil's equivalent of New Jersey.

outer apex
#

I don't think suburbs do that on a regular basis lol. A suburb is a district of a city, which they are not districts of sigil. They're more like interstate exits with a large gas station right next to it

snow laurel
#

that sounds like gate towns to me

white ravine
#

The towns of sigil are less suburbs and more manifestations of their plane

#

The abyss one for example moreso resembles a shantytown than an actual place

left spindle
#

yeah, the city of Dis in Torment isn't anything like Sigil and I don't think anyone would mistake them

mild galleon
#

I’m making a Kenku character (MMotM version) and I’ve picked Small as the size. In more of a roleplay sense, how tall would my character be? What’s the shortest he could be?

#

I saw in the legacy version of Kenku that they’re around 5 feet tall, but now that medium or small can be picked, I imagine small would be shorter than the 5 feet?

prime bronze
#

Anyone knows a diety related to torches?

spark haven
outer apex
#

But if you're in a current setting in the forgotten realms, deneir doesn't exist really

spark haven
#

Oh no, what happened to him

#

I like him

outer apex
#

he wrote himself into the weave

spark haven
#

Oh that's right, I think I did read that somewhere

#

Dang, is it just oghma serving those domains now? I need a literate patron

outer apex
#

I mean, millil, gond, and oghma are still kicking around as deities of knowledge/invention

spark haven
#

I guess I'll dig more into them. I just really appreciated deneir's neutrality

#

And low key vibe

#

I like characters that are into the lesser powers. Anyone can worship baal or tiamat

outer apex
#

I think he still technically has a church/worshipers but has not since been seen as a divine being since he went into the matrix as it were

analog jasper
#

HI. I need information on Vecna, the God of evil secrets. Can anyone give me any info about him?

outer apex
#

What do you want to know? Kind of a broad subject

iron saffron
unkempt merlin
#

What setting are you looking for?

analog jasper
#

I intend to use him as the big bad of a campaign I'm working on.

#

Multiverse campaign so every setting.

#

I've seen the wiki and there not enough information there but it is a place to start of I got no other choice. Thanks.

iron saffron
#

How is that not enough information? It references every source of Vecna in the official books.

outer apex
#

I mean, the wiki is mostly a condensed version of everything canon to the forgotten realms setting. The regular wikipedia has a bit more meta context if that's what you are looking for

iron saffron
#

If you want specifics then ask. There are plenty of us here who are lore nerds.

analog jasper
#

I may not have paid it enough attention then. I'll take another look. But thanks for your help and the offer of help . If run into a problem I ask.

#

By the way this campaign is huge!!! Bigger than anything I've ever seen done by anyone else. Maybe to big for one DM.

main palm
#

@modest badger oh i was confused by this

#

"Becoming a greatwyrm was akin to achieving apotheosis,[1] and thus many greatwyrms were considered deities and worshiped by humanoids and other mortal races. While other dragons respected the power of the greatwyrms, they did not worship them nor regard them as gods.[6]"

modest badger
#

Aah

main palm
#

but like do you think becoming a greatwyrm you would take the echos from other greatwyrms, i mean maybe in another timeline you were adragon and you just take the echo from their timeline like echoknight do

outer apex
#

akin to, is not in fact achieving apotheosis though.

#

also, not entirely as written. Fizban's states "A few other dragons also command reverence from their kin. These are often greatwyrms who have undergone a sort of apotheosis, joining multiple echoes of themselves into a single powerful form. "

modest badger
#

I have to admit divine ranking is one of those lore spots I've avoided because they change so often in the editions that they just hurt my head when I trying to figure out . Exarchs, Vestiges, Demigods, Herogods, Quasigods, Lesser deities, greater deities, intemediate deities...

wary parrot
#

Does Forgotten Realms use the World Axis or Great Wheel for it's universe?

crude blaze
#

Great Wheel

wary parrot
#

Who uses the world axis then?

outer apex
#

previous editions of forgotten realms

wary parrot
#

Ah

outer apex
#

Spellplague changed it

wary parrot
#

So what about Greyhawk?

outer apex
#

Greyhawk may or not be different now? not really touched upon since spellplague I think? Player's guide to faerun in 3.0 ed said that toril cosmology was a little different than most places?

wary parrot
#

Dammit spell plague

outer apex
#

moreso damn 3e for leading to that lol

wary parrot
#

Granted it's more categorized but still

outer apex
#

yeah for sure

wary parrot
#

Who uses the world tree?

outer apex
#

world tree is dead on faerun, and I think that was only a forgotten realms thing

wary parrot
#

Ragnarok

outer apex
#

spellplague, but yeah lol

wary parrot
#

What about...a world triangle

outer apex
#

kinda a thing from the spelljammer stuff. there was a triangle of sorts that let the phlogiston flow between greyspace, krynnspace, and realmspace

#

I think most cosmologies are the same great wheel, except for Athas, which is dark sun, and Eberron

#

those two are seperate and not the same

wary parrot
#

What's Eberron

crude blaze
#

It’s a campaign setting

outer apex
#

Setting made by Keith baker in like 2002 for winning a competition. More of a low magic setting, and kinda steampunkesque. There also is no real gods

snow laurel
#

Would you say that having a player get in and out of one of the Lady of Pain's mazes in the span of a session "cheapens" that power?

I'm running a planescape game and I'm thinking of basically using "they got mazed" as an excuse for why a player's character is missing from the table if they can't make that particular game, but that may mean that they only get "mazed" for like 1 hour of in-world time

feral nova
#

The Lady is capricious, and takes them in and out at her will. One should not question this

snow laurel
# outer apex Setting made by Keith baker in like 2002 for winning a competition. More of a lo...

It's disingenuous to call Eberron "low magic" but also "high magic." Keith invented the term "wide magic" for a reason, because neither really do the world justice.

Implicit in "low magic" is that magic is rare or hard to come by, which is the opposite of Eberron. Magic is everywhere. The thing is, magic isn't that powerful, which is what you'd imagine when someone says "high magic." The widespread use of weak magic for mundane practical considerations is what typifies Eberron; you're not going to find a sorcerer who summons ice to blanket an entire kingdom in an unseasonable winter but you can nip down to the store and get a magic-powered refrigerator to keep your eggs from spoiling

outer apex
#

yeah, that's fair

#

high level magic is rare, low level is pervasive

#

my b

left spindle
#

I said it last time the discussion came up -- people do call Eberron "low magic" because the gods aren't actively involved, there aren't archmages flying around, etc

but I can't call any setting with a mass transit infrastructure of hovering trains powered by bound elementals "low magic" 😛

#

the nomenclature does fail at that point, "wide magic" helps

spark haven
#

we just need more axes

#

how many people have magic
what's the highest average spell cast per 100 years

#

etc

snow laurel
snow laurel
unkempt merlin
#

4th and 5th stuff is rare but not unheard of. 6th is rarer than that. 7+ is legendary or mythological

#

More specifically, the usage of those levels by mortals

#

Admittedly that's also on Khorvaire. Other locations in the setting, like the elven areas of focus, stuff up to 5th level is less rare

analog oxide
# snow laurel Would you say that having a player get in and out of one of the Lady of Pain's m...

i would say yes. but the maze is a hard thing. the mazes, at least 2e lore wise. were meant almost like philosophical/metaphysical journeys that character takes to learn about themselves, what they did, etc. so very few if any survive long enough or figure out how to get out. its not meant to be, just a big dungeon. but ive never been able to think of a good way to do it, luckily my players have never annoyed those in sigil enough for the lady to maze em 🙂

#

i got the book Pages of Pain, which i think has ppl itrapped in the maze. but i havent read it yet. been 20 years. i'll get to it eventually 🙂

#

BUT u dont have to go that far with it. id say. if u can make it different than just a normal dungeon. that be cool. something unique since i would guess, its not every day your players get mazed 😛

mystic merlin
shadow pivot
#

what area the origins for wild sorcerer?

#

like draconic sorcerer gets magic from a dragon

unkempt merlin
#

Worth noting any sorc can arise from just general exposure to magic, it doesn't necessarily have to be a strictly "bloodline" thing.
However wild magic sorcerers are often associated with Limbo and the Feywild (due to the chaos of both planes)

shadow pivot
#

thanks :D

analog oxide
outer apex
#

They made it back to the world axis cosmology in 4th I guess

#

It was not that way in 2nd/3rd

analog oxide
#

i thought the only difference was it was sealed away somewhere. the places around it had other names but could be wrong. long time since ive looked at that (and since we use PS and other types of epic/magic not meant for players, doesnt really amtter. u can alwasy get anywhere u want)

outer apex
#

in 2nd/3rd there the material plane is surrounded by three coexistent transitive planes; the Astral Plane, which is the standard plane from the core cosmology; the Elemental and Paraelemental planes; and the Gray and the Black, which are unique to the setting.

analog oxide
#

ok so im thinking of the later PS update. found that in the original relase, the black was bascialyl the demiplane of shadow. but the late planescape book, guide to the ethereal, shadow was placed as a sub domain within the ethereal. prob thinking of all that stuff of them trying to unify stuff that wasnt before

mellow ferry
#

All planar cosmologies are just the current most popular theory/model of how the planes work. The Great Wheel, the World Tree, the World Axis, they all exist concurrently, it just depends on which sage you ask, and when you ask them.

hybrid jolt
#

D&d lore has a cool character named queen Dagnabbit. She is the dwarven queen of mythral hall. She was a general before and known for shrewd tactics. I was hoping I could get some cool titles for her from the community.
Thanks!

spark haven
#

Animals are cool, and lots of cultures hold them in places of high import. If she's a cunning tactician, maybe she'd have a title or nickname related to an animal held in honor by her culture. Something native, something cunning and strong

outer apex
#

I mean, world tree inherently is only forgotten realms, and also no longer exists, because it predicates the world tree existing, which it no longer does

snow laurel
#

but in either case I wouldn't be "running" the dungeon, the maze would just be an in-universe excuse for why one of the characters is suddenly no longer present when one of the players can't make the session

mystic merlin
prime bronze
white ravine
#

Direct correlation, PROMETHEUS.

#

Yes, THAT Prometheus.

#

Most light deities would work as well, in a pinch

prime bronze
#

Alright, guess it's time to introduce Prometheus

#

Also, how does Shekenister manifest? Do every head speak at once?

#

Does it conflict with itself?

daring niche
#

question

#

what do you guys think druidic would sound like?

#

might be a silly question since it would sound like nonsense for someone who isnt a druid

#

but when my players encounter an npc that speaks a language that none of them understand, i like to give them some sort of description of what it sounds like

left spindle
daring niche
#

I like the welsh idea a lot

#

i was felt that druidic might sound a bit elvish to those who didnt speak the language

#

thank you! @left spindle

left spindle
#

Glad to help!

prime bronze
#

Is there any god related to industrialization/engineering? Aswell as a god related to caste order and roles in a society?

white ravine
prime bronze
#

Thanksalot

gray smelt
#

i have a question during the blood wars did the devils use propaganda against the demons for mortals not use them, trade or deal with them?

white ravine
spark haven
#

Definitely not propaganda in the sense that any modern person would probably have a grasp on

#

There's no mass media. Possibly newspapers or some sort of periodicals, but how many people are actually literate?

white ravine
#

Advertisements for devils? They'd burn those papers...

#

But I'm sure you can convince a mortal knight to sell their soul to help fight in the blood war for the greater good.

analog oxide
#

back in the 2e PS sets, ther was a full page ad, in one of the books, with a pit fiend on it, for mortals to join the blood war under their cause IIRC

#

i can prob find it

spark haven
#

The closest I could probably imagine is uh...are devils cult-starters? it seems like a reasonably effective way to trick people into signing their souls over without being superficially evil

hybrid jolt
#

Is mythral hall full of molten lava?

outer apex
#

Not that I'm aware of, the last look we had at it was in 1479 DR and Mithral hall was fine

hybrid jolt
#

Sorry I mean it in a good way

#

Like for smelting

#

Dwarves channeling natural molten lava

#

I just see splash art of mythral hall

#

And I wasn't sure if lore backed it up, or artists interpretation

spark haven
#

you could probably assume that a dwarven city would have infrastructure for industry

#

most cities, really

#

but dwarven ones especially

mystic merlin
# daring niche I like the welsh idea a lot

I would say welsh, yeah. A goidelic branch gaelic language. Or steal from Zelazny and have it be pashta thari

Although trying to find data to back that up I’m coming across a lot of almost-the-same that tells me it’s actually 1) misspelled and 2) a language from the Fertile Crescent and one of my 1970s authors might have misled me on ethnic and cultural associations! I shouldn’t be this shocked.

outer apex
#

Ahhhh I see, no, I don't believe there has been lava around there, you may have instead seen art of Gauntlgrym?

mystic merlin
#

On that note; what do dwarven cities look like?

I know in the underdark they find big ol caves and build buildings in them. But dwarves like, hollow out entire mountains— are they building normal buildings inside hollows or is it just an entire mountain with rooms and hallways carved into it?

outer apex
#

Looks like yeah, they prefer underground cities, built around mines. I would assume a mountain with rooms and hallways

#

at least from looking at a map of mithral hall, mostly caves and stuff

mystic merlin
#

That must be wild. You’d expect they just clear and carve the whole of it up front, but dwarves are notoriously low fertility.

I wonder if it’s established anywhere that they like, carve entire cities and then just section them off until the population swells enough to re-open parts? Do you have low to mid level adventures that are “venture into the lost parts of the city to clear them of squatters and monsters”?

outer apex
#

gauntlygrym seems to be more of the normal buildings inside concept?

spark haven
#

You see it happening in the modern world, because we have electricity and mass manufacturing and pre-fab buildings and stuff

#

but I suspect that without similarly scaled industrial magic applications, you'd probably not want to "waste" so much labor on infrastructuer that won't be used for hundreds of years

mystic merlin
#

(Oh I’ve never heard of the urdunnir before, wild)

spark haven
#

I think it's way more likely that the dwarves are so long lived that these cities have been around long enough to see multiple population busts and booms

#

So at one point, those abandoned halls were occupied

#

during better days

#

or at least more populous ones

mystic merlin
spark haven
#

It's a cool question

mystic merlin
spark haven
#

How do very long lived races allocate space/energy for infrastructure

mystic merlin
#

I’ll ask Greenwood, I suppose

spark haven
#

Yeah that's what I mean. I don't think they'd bother carving entire new cities if they couldn't occupy the space

#

it's likely that dwarven cities are very carefully planned, you can't really allow people to just carve tunnels through the rock at random when you've got this thousand meter tall arched cathedral roof spanning a few kilometers of length

hybrid jolt
#

I would suggest Google image mithral hall

#

Then yall will know what I'm talking about

spark haven
#

yeah i skimmed some stuff. everything indicates it was a populous, propserous dwarven city

#

it'd be pretty wild to assume that there's no industrial infruastructure whatsoever

#

are there rivers of lava? who can say, there's no google street view of these locations

#

It's called creative license.

outer apex
#

I think they're talking more the lava. and that image is not from anything official, it's fan art

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
#

Although it does look like Mithral hall is a bubble with a city built in.

outer apex
#

does it? Maybe the undercity, but a lot of it is just tunnels, at least form the map that was published by WOTC

mystic merlin
#

I imagine the number of Deep Earth predators that can move through rock and earth like it was water means there’s a benefit to not simply “living in a mine shaft”, though, maybe they do the bubble structure because it prevents gribblies from popping out of your nursery walls and stealing children

mystic merlin
#

The forges being so far out is interesting though.

spark haven
analog oxide
mystic merlin
#

But yeah. We’ve had an adventure that was just finding out what was going on with a town getting sick, and it was a dwarven mine contaminating the water table because when they examined the area to make sure it was safe there wasn’t a human village there, and now there is.

spark haven
#

anthropocentrism rears its head again

#

hard habit to break

mystic merlin
#

I mean, yeah. Valid.

gentle lance
#

Hmmm anyone else feel like WOTC has given up on writing lore?

iron saffron
#

Fixed it for you:
Hmmm anyone else feel like WOTC has given up on writing Race lore?

gentle lance
#

You’re right it’s mostly just lore in general

unkempt merlin
#

Short answer: no, people just expect lore in places it shouldn't be

outer apex
#

I mean, they haven't been as prolific with the lore since 5e, but I also agree with swamp

unkempt merlin
#

There is imo 2 factors to the "they don't do lore anymore!!!!" thing.
A) They don't release nearly as many books per year as they used to. This leads to people wanting 3-5 books (or more for a lot of settings) worth of lore in a single book (occasionally two) when comparing to the amount of lore from past editions.
B) This ties into the first point, but like I said, people expect every book to be full of lore, but really, there isn't a place for it. Adventure books shouldn't tell you everything about a setting. They should only tell you the bits of lore that are well. Relevant for the adventure. Now while yes, they haven't always done an amazing job doing so for some of the 5e adventures, in general its worked fine. People also expect books that are explicitly called out as being setting neutral (namely, Monsters of the Multiverse), and also not really designed to have a lot of lore, to be full of lore when that just makes no real sense. The failure of the monster manual (and the initial releases of Volos and Mordys) to properly establish "this is lore for a specific setting (the FR) has had lasting impacts.

#

Setting books do contain lots of lore for the given settings, but most of them fall into point A. Adventure books are of course a little bit of A and B. Supplement books (which includes Xanathars, Tashas, and yes, Monsters of the Multiverse) really shouldn't have a lot of lore. Compendiums like Tome of Foes, Volos, and Fizbans do contain plenty of lore, the former two for a specific setting and the latter for a wide variety, but even those still fall into point A

outer apex
#

I think my biggest complaint is the focus on the Sword Coast. I want an updated 5e map of the forgotten realms lol, not just SC

unkempt merlin
#

thats a little bit of point A but also falls into the separate category of
"oh my god so much of the lore from the past is just bad, both in the moral sense but also the "this makes literally no sense" sense"

outer apex
#

yeah, they provided some questionable lore for stuff, a lot of it in 3.5/4ed and then let it fester

unkempt merlin
#

and I don't mean in the "its bad morally because the setting has slavery", I mean stuff like "its bad morally because there is slavery but its not considered a bad thing by anyone"

#

And that applies heavily to the FR but also other settings

#

admittedly, that partially ties into (for the FR), the way that alignment and things that are "universal truths" in the FR are only as such until you move to a different part of the continent.

hazy fox
# outer apex yeah, they provided some questionable lore for stuff, a lot of it in 3.5/4ed and...

Yet at the same time, especially the magazine, seems to keep the old lore in even the problematic ones by that time or accounting for setting morality.
Or some sort of fantasy writing popular narrative on east vs. west since Marsember's Shou Town (Dungeon #195, 2011) and even a Shou Kingdom of Nathlan (Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, 2008) were shown as xenophobic, even down to showing them segregating from Cormyr denizens but portray it as "normal part of life". By contrast, portray Faerun/west as open-minded or never shown as antagonist roles.

#

Plus, even one Dragon magazine back in 3E still kept Koryo's "willing to wrong a foreignor than their own" (also giving ideas for players to play Korean adventurers to be "problematic" around other parties, and I've seen RPG horror stories as well), taking straight from old Kara-Tur Eastern Reams book.

#

(Shame that aznsreprsents stopped reading it around early pages...but hoo boy, they're gonna groan about this section.)

jovial plover
#

Anyone happen to know where I can more lore on Owlins?

sharp owl
#

Check out the MtG Wiki, they're an Magic the Gathering race

white ravine
#

It's just a redirect to the page about birds

left spindle
#

Unfortunately, yeah, MTG doesn't really have owlin lore

#

I think the Strixhaven book is the best you can do

covert island
#

they had what? 6 cards in total and none realy had lore on them which is a bit of a shame

left spindle
#

Strixhaven lore is kinda threadbare in general, honestly

#

There's a good amount here about the structure of the colleges but not much else

#

Even the set's villains have no clear motivation or backstory beyond "they do schemes"

serene crater
#

Quick question, but would Xanathar be willing to work with large guilds such as the Lord's Alliance or the Harpers to take out a larger threat?

outer apex
#

Which Xanathar? Because some of them would be much more likely to

serene crater
#

The current Xanathar

#

Or at least the one in dragonheist if he wasn't murdered before the canon got dropped

spark haven
serene crater
#

True. Though I always thought Xanathar considered them to be a full on threat

iron saffron
sharp owl
#

Well no, because Owlin aren't part of D&D, they're part of MtG which generally doesn't go super deep on the lore of various races because there are so many

#

It's no different from say Simic Hybrids or Leonins

iron saffron
#

Then perhaps they should have spent money a couple extra pages?

unkempt merlin
unkempt merlin
iron saffron
unkempt merlin
#

Very few adventures have actual player stuff

#

Outside of magic items

iron saffron
#

Strixhaven is listed as a sourcebook on D&D Beyond despite it being marketed as an adventure.

unkempt merlin
#

It was unfortunately marketed as both

#

But still doesn't change my point

iron saffron
#

... and a master of neither.

unkempt merlin
#

You can point to the single book that only slightly contradicts what I said yes

sharp owl
#

I don't believe the D&D team makes lore for MtG content, they just use what exists

unkempt merlin
#

Correct

#

Strixhaven barely existed as a setting before it came to dnd

sharp owl
#

So if it doesn't exist for MtG, it's not gonna exist for D&D

#

It's was a surprisingly young setting to be made into a book, yeah

unkempt merlin
#

Overall, pretty much all the lore from the setting, at the time of the dnd book coming out, was in the dnd book

#

Not all, but a majority

sharp owl
#

Strixhaven is actually rare as MtG books go in that it contains pretty much the sum totality of all setting information

unkempt merlin
#

Exactly

sharp owl
#

Compared to Ravnica, or even Theros, which only touch on the full scope of the lore

#

Ravnica especially; that setting covers 3 sets (if you include War of the Spark)

unkempt merlin
#

Which makes sense on a "the bar for strixhaven to include all of it was basically non existant" scale

iron saffron
#

I didn't buy any of the MtG D&D books because I have zero interest in MtG (never played).

sharp owl
#

You don't have to?

iron saffron
#

Yeah and I used my choice not to...

#

Just stating why.

sharp owl
#

No, I mean you don't have to play MtG to use the books

iron saffron
#

Zero interest in the settings.

sharp owl
#

👍

zenith dust
#

it's totally okay to allow other people to discuss that lore that you aren't interested in though. whether a rando is uninterested in it has nothing to do with everyone else's discussion. I don't pipe in in the lore channel to ensure people know I don't like dragonlance when people are talking dragonlance, as an example. I'm just some rando that doesn't have interest in the thing being talked about. It isn't important to contribute that I don't care about a thing

spark haven
#

sometimes people like stuff you don't like

#

that's okay

outer apex
#

that can't be true, my opinions should be shared by everyone, /s

crude blaze
#

If people don't know that I don't like the things they like, I might implode

zenith dust
#

which would be lore, rather than rules ~_~

iron saffron
#

I never said I don't like the MtG setting books (I have no interest in them) but my critique was the lack of lore given.

#

But these days with DMs Guild the lore can be fluffed out by 3rd parties.

unkempt merlin
#

The lack of lore has nothing to do with the dnd side of things for Strixhaven, as mentioned

iron saffron
#

They could have fluffed it out... add to it.

unkempt merlin
#

As for the other mtg setting books, they fall into point A from my referenced point

outer apex
#

Ravnica has a lot more lore because it has that backing it from the MTG side

#

it's one of the most visited planes

sharp owl
#

They present what exists, which is kinda the point of having MTG settings

iron saffron
#

WotC controls both... the two teams could have worked together to create additional lore. What's the point of corporate synergy in that product then?

sharp owl
#

That's not really how it works

#

It's the same reason the plane shift documents are classed as homebrew

iron saffron
#

I'll leave it there then (again, I have little knowledge of MtG).

unkempt merlin
#

Knowledge of mtg doesn't really have anything to do with it but ok

mystic merlin
#

Shoot I meant to turn off the ping, sorry swamp

#

This is just me being salty about ‘adventures shouldn’t have too much lore’ but also they pump up the idea of the lore as a selling point

unkempt merlin
#

Unfortunately your counterpoint fully supports my points 😛

#

It is feywild adventure, and it does include lore about the feywild. Just a specific part of it.

mystic merlin
#

Right, I’m more pointing to the fact that official sources have heavily tried to paint the adventures as having the lore

#

Actual lying for one sale is a bit much, imo

left spindle
#

The MTG sourcebooks do include some original worldbuilding, or at least info that isn't available elsewhere, I believe

#

Like at minimum the Strixhaven book has a bunch of named NPCs that aren't in the set or the web stories

iron saffron
#

A sale is a sale...

left spindle
#

It depends on what you consider "lore" I guess

serene crater
hazy fox
#

Well, wish they have black library equivalent.
That or GW and WoTC have different business model, former selling figures and latter selling books.

left spindle
#

There are a lot of Forgotten Realms novels but they aren't promoted heavily like BL books

jovial plover
spark goblet
#

I have a question for ya'll lore people. Was Tasha around during the age of Netheril? And what about Bigby and Otto, the creators of Bigby's Hand and Otto's Irresistible Dance?

#

Was just wondering, since (Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden spoilers) ||The Incantations of Iriolarthas contains the spells Melf's Acid Arrow, Evard's Black Tentacles, Bigby's Hand, and Otto's Irresistible Dance.||

crude blaze
spark goblet
#

Alright. Good to know. I'll take your word for it.

#

Guess that somewhat explains it.

hardy wave
#

Looking into blackguards, how are they different than oathbreaker paladins? Do blackguards start evil right away and are just considered 'anti-paladin' as a flavor text. Or do oathbreaker paladins turn into blackguards once their betrayal is complete?

burnt iron
hardy wave
#

yeah they are in Multiverse of Monsters

#

DnDBeyond is broken right now so I can't access it

burnt iron
#

ah, gotcha...didn't know that but I don't have that book yet

#

Right, forgot that 🙂

#

I...try not to think about it 😛

hardy wave
#

MoM doesn't give you a PC character build for blackguard, like DMG does for Oathbreaker, but rather its an enemy statblock, I was just wondering if an oathbreaker become a blackguard once the oath betrayal is complete or are they two different things, that's all.

burnt iron
#

more or less. Oathbreakers don't actually have to be evil though really though their powers are often themed that way. After all, a lot depends on what oath you broke.

#

If you broke an oath of conquest and seek redemption are you still an oathbreaker? By the rules, I think so.

magic jackal
#

If you look in the DMG, where you find Oathbreaker, it specifically states that a Paladin who breaks an Oath to serve Evil purposes becomes an Oathbreaker, ergo, Evil is a pre-requisite for Oathbreaker.

outer apex
#

it further expounds on this "A paladin must be evil and at least 3rd level to become an Oathbreaker. "

burnt iron
#

I thought you just had to break your oath

bright panther
#

hello! i have a question about a pregen i got using the crit role setting. she is a cleric of Ruidus, does that mean her god is the moon itself or is there a different god entity tied to the moon?

#

she has the moon domain

outer apex
#

is this a pregen included with one of the adventures?

bright panther
#

no clue- i don't have the books or anything cuz i'm just a player

#

she is a firbolg cleric with the moon domain

#

and the campaign so far has involved exploring an underwater city

#

i just know that its part of the crit role setting

outer apex
#

The true nature of Ruidus is currently unknown, but some magic attributed to Ruidus actually derives from another source

bright panther
#

ok- so a cleric of ruidus probably does derive their power from the moon then? there isnt like. a god of ruidus they worship instead

outer apex
#

Since you are a player, I will not spoil it, as it is a plot point, but C3 of critical role is currently exploring the nature of Ruidus

bright panther
#

ty :> im only on campaign 1

outer apex
#

No, it would likely be attributed to the moon itself, not any deity

bright panther
#

alright! thanks, thats the answer i was looking for

outer apex
#

there's more of an answer, but again, I don't want to spoil the module for you

bright panther
#

ye thats fine haha- that will def be good enough for fleshing out the character a bit

olive saffron
#

Which planes have you seen in use? Which planes do you feel have a distinct purpose/feel to them?

white ravine
spark haven
#

different settings, and different real-world-eras of the settings, all treat the planes subtly differently

hardy wave
#

Is there a Bahamut/Metallic dragon version of the Abishai?

white ravine
merry hollow
#

Where do I go to ger a detailed description of the races and classes? New and trying to learn everything I can

ionic rivet
#

In 5th edition the Player's Handbook and Monster Manual would be the primary sources.

white ravine
mystic merlin
#

@spark goblet Otto, Melt, Evard, etc are contemporary wizards but from different parts of the multiverse (Greyhawk mostly). But the game contains time travel.

hardy wave
#

In MoM, this is how they are described: Blackguards are paladins who broke their sacred oaths and now indulge their own villainous ambitions. They consort with Fiends and Undead, and they reject many of the goodly things from their former lives.

mystic merlin
#

Ah, neat.
Yeah that sounds like Oathbreaker but without having to build a whole character just to have em die

hardy wave
#

DnDBeyond was broken last night so that's why I was asking if

crude blaze
#

If I was gonna do a progressing Oathbreaker villain in a campaign, I’d probably start with Knight, go to Blackguard, cap it off with Death Knight.

mystic merlin
#

I wouldn’t consider a death knight a high CR oathbreaker honestly. I think that’s squinting too much and considering anything that’s blurry (because you’re squinting) not worth keeping.

#

But I can see the progression. Death knight can definitely come from a blaggard.

hardy wave
# crude blaze If I was gonna do a progressing Oathbreaker villain in a campaign, I’d probably ...

no, in this case, they are running into a friend NPC who was an oathbreaker paladin but is now on the road to redemption, but his 'partner in oathbreaking' is now a blackguard and I was just wondering if it makes sense lorewise. its rather a callback to their first adventure when they met him, and now they run into this paladin again and they've grown stronger and taking out this blackguard is the last step in redemption for their friend who helped them previously

mystic merlin
#

I generally think “oathbreaker Paladin” meaning any Paladin who broke their oath is bad practice. It’s clearly a Paladin who subverted their oath specifically for evil power, but because there’s no other option you get like, path of conquest who shows mercy to a former friend becoming a demon summoning fear bot 😕

hardy wave
#

well that's what this guy did, but he and his friend diverged when it became too real, and he's on a path to redemption while his friend is now a blackguard going for even more cruelty and power

faint pier
# mystic merlin I generally think “oathbreaker Paladin” meaning any Paladin who broke their oath...

When I read the DMs guide originally I thought that an oath breaker paladin is an interesting idea because it's a paladin that went and broke his oath and I thought it would be cool to make a character that broke their oath because he thought his god was being manipulative and didn't feel like he mattered to them but then I found out it's really only built to make oath breaker paladins kinda evil

normal wave
#

so i am thinking of a new BBG, i have a question is there a half dragon half demon? so what' happened if a red dragon and succubus get together?

obsidian gate
#

Abishai maybe?

#

not quite the same origin as what you are looking for

left spindle
obsidian gate
#

devil servants but yeah

left spindle
#

I always think they're demons because she herself isn't lawful

#

But they are in fact devils

normal wave
#

wait so those are her children? with who?

obsidian gate
#

no they are mortals who earned her favor and are transformed into devils after death

normal wave
#

ah i see

obsidian gate
#

but, I dont think anyone would bat an eye if you gave the child of a devil + dragon an abishai statblock

normal wave
#

ah i see, i was thinking more of demon dragon then a devil dragon, so the story of the BBG that his father an Ancient Red Dragon made a deal with malcanthet to give him a lot of gold in return, he needs to give one of her daughters a child, so this is how the BBG was born

#

also btw this isn't some low ranknig succubus , this is one of her closest in line daughters, and she planning to use the power of the child to do as she wished

obsidian gate
#

well, I'm not too versed in older edition lore. maybe the concept has been explored at some point

left spindle
#

that's a solid backstory. if it's a succubus, you could also sell it as a gold or silver dragon becoming corrupted by her appealing to their wishes

normal wave
left spindle
#

then you could have a "the metallic dragon is actually evil" reveal which could be fun

normal wave
#

also he would demonic features which could be very cool for a gold dragon

#

like a gold demonic dragon

obsidian gate
#

red abishai are CR 19 btw, so if you want to just use the statblock and reflavor everything else, then one could work well as a BBEG

#

demonic dragon certainly sound cool too

#

maybe just take a regular dragon and give it a few demonic abilities

normal wave
#

also, i wanna make him a little bit sympathetic just evil cartoon guy

#

maybe he has a lot of love for his mother, but cuz his mother is a demon she doesn't show him any love, and he always tries to impress her

left spindle
#

the gold dragon thing would be real interesting for that I think, because gold dragons by nature are very moralizing, these sort of "I know better than the mortals and the lesser dragons, so I will teach and correct them" figures

#

and so if you have one that's corrupted, they could be incredibly evil, because they'd do all their evil in the genuine belief it was righteous

#

and then you bring up a kid in that environment

normal wave
#

a question, how do metallic dragon and demonic children think of their parents?

left spindle
#

and they could have some very warped senses of what's right and wrong and how to interact with people

normal wave
#

i assume demonic children don't care

#

but how about metallic dragon wyrmlings? how do they view their parents?

left spindle
#

yeah, with demonic kids they're chaotic and evil by nature, and that probably expresses itself as a complete lack of interest in obedience or family ties, but the parent might exert their power over the kid and bring them into line, or might encourage the kid to be an uncontrolled force of destruction because demons are into that

normal wave
#

and he and his mother are the only righteous creatures, maybe his mother was the only person in his life when he was growing up that's why he grew such an attachment to her

left spindle
#

hmmm. according to the forgotten realms wiki:

When choosing a mate, gold dragons could spend years debating philosophy and ethics and questing together as part of their courtship. Prospective mates then sought approval from the King of Justice. Some gold dragons mated for life through a rite known as the Oath of Concord, while others only mated for a short time. They could be monogamous or hold several mates at the same time.[9][11]

Gold dragons raised their young with exceptional care. A gold dragon wyrmling did not have whiskers, but they developed quickly. It was also common for gold dragon parents to send their young to the care of foster parents. This could serve a variety of reasons, such as freeing the parents for a quest, or just broadening their horizons.[9]

normal wave
#

actually gold dragons make godo parents

left spindle
#

so this gives you options, maybe the gold dragon was a very caring parent but super twisted, or maybe super caring but it didn't stick and the BBEG doesn't respect him at all

#

or maybe the gold dragon tried to remit his demon kid into someone else's care

#

or maybe he just has a great relationship with both his parents and also wants to raze everything else in hellfire

normal wave
#

maybe the gold dragon left his child and his demonic wife after he saw what twisted beings they are

#

and the BBG grew hatred for him and all othe dragons and grew fondness for his mother who took care of him

#

and haunted food for him in the material plane

left spindle
#

that would make sense, yeah

#

I can totally see it

normal wave
#

and as he grew up, his mother used to tell him that all the other creatures in the world are evil and that he and her are the only pure creatures left

left spindle
#

"was it my mother's black heart that caused him to flee? no. he loved her. was it when she drove him to compromise everything he believed in for love? no. he did that with his whole heart.

it was when he saw me, and saw the brimstone in my fire, and knew what my mother had done to his 'perfect' bloodline"

#

"that was the sin he couldn't forgive. to sire someone that was more like her than like him"

#

just imagining what this dude might say about his dad

normal wave
#

honestly this would be very cool afte the players meet the father, and he tells them his failures, and all what's happening to the world is cuz of him

left spindle
#

yeah the fallen gold dragon would be a super interesting character too

normal wave
#

maybe the succubus with her power was able to take an empire and give it to her son to rule and sleep on its gold and destroy who ever challenges them, while she rules the empire from the shadows as the succubus queen of the empire

left spindle
#

yeah I imagine that her initial goal would be to corrupt this majestic brilliant soul, the ancient gold dragon, and after that dalliance ended she was more than happy to focus on establishing a seat of authority for her incredibly powerful kid

normal wave
left spindle
normal wave
#

@left spindle "he is charming to mortals but his anger is beyond imagination" i wanna make him tow sided, when he is happy he so pure and charming, but when he is mad he tortures and destroys his enemies with abyssal fire

left spindle
#

oh yeah, for sure

#

there's some very interesting stuff in the gold dragon lore about how they risk being tyrants if they get authority over others

#

because a golf dragon is very fascinated with morality and good, but will not bother to listen to what anyone else's idea of good is

#

they teach and demonstrate, they do not debate or compromise

#

and that attitude with a half demon would totally produce that demeanor, that sense of boundless grace that turns to an iron fist of hatred when you cross him

normal wave
#

Now I have a question about the mother, I feel like the stats of just a normal succubus doesn't fit her I want something more royal, much stronger to fit her majesty maybe like a CR 20 succubs? Is there anything that I could take a look at to see if there is any examples?

#

Maybe like an archsuccubus

left spindle
#

Maybe one of the demon lords in Mordenkainen's Tome?

mellow ferry
#

Soneillon, the Queen of Whispers, who ruled the 71st layer of the Abyss until she abandoned it to pursue her own ambitions on the Material Plane, and took over a hobgoblin realm which she rules over with her consort, a death knight and former king of a nation of knights and paladins.

In third edition, she was a CR 23 succubus with class levels.
(though there is some debate as to whether she was the actual former demon lord of Spirac, or if she just took that lord's name)

mystic merlin
#

Oh-Ho-ho, im hopeful someone else has read Sepulchrave II’s “the tales of Wyre”

storm dagger
rancid lark
#

did Orcus gain all his powers back in 5e??

mystic merlin
#

@muted ruin Mystara’s cosmos had only the inner planes. The prime material at the center, with the ethereal leading in to the four elemental planes (earth, air, water, fire), and possibly an astral (I think no) and demiplane of shadow. I think astral and shadow are advanced D&D and got left out though, actually?

The five spheres are spheres of influence for the Immortals.

#

They were energy, entropy, matter, time, and thought. These concepts were the areas of influence Mystara’s answer to gods (immortals, risen mortals who achieved cosmic power) could focus on and achieve their existence through, but were not places, or planes.

There was the nightmare dimension, which replaced the far realms. The idea being the universe is multidimensional (in the axes sense) and creatures from our existence have X, Y, Z, and creatures from the nightmare dimension had instead, X, Y, and [nightmares], and so were as bewildered and put out at being here as we would be in their hellscape.

The nightmare dimension is never explained because it cannot be visited; it’s not a different place but a facet of the Prime, a different angle.

#

Immortals are multidimensional and can do things like teleport and such by stepping over an axis and to us, it seems as if they literally teleported or something. But! There is a dimension they cannot perceive, and see only a wall there. The theory is the True Gods have put that as a limit and use this reality as a test, and any immortal who reincarnated and goes through the whole process for every sphere (even Entropy, which quickly became the sphere of evil even though it wasn’t supposed to be moral at all…), they may arise then as a God.

#

There’s also late era lore that the fey are actually immortals from a Different universe, and if Entropy should ever win it will expand into four new spheres, and all existing immortals of Thought, Time, Energy and Matter will become fey creatures in the new universe and their sphere shrunk down to occupy the same antagonistic spot in a never ending cycle of power exchange.

muted ruin
serene crater
#

quick question, but is it possible for an erinyes to give birth to a pure human child (or one with fiendish powers) rather than a tiefling?

mystic merlin
#

Tieflings are not half-fiends or cambions. A devil will only give birth to a tiefling if the other parent is a tiefling, I believe. The introduction of fiendishness into the folk is not a halfbreed thing but s long term magical and also normal eugenics project, as I understand it. Sometimes “merely” a persistent and unalterable generational curse instead.

#

(I am not up and up on them, someone feel free to correct)

outer apex
#

yeah, Teiflings are much like dragonborn really. Distant ancestry, slightly magical too, but not a specific result of that ancestry

mystic merlin
#

This was easier when “cambion” was its own thing

serene crater
#

looking stuff up on it rn, its 50/50 as they can be half-fiends, but its not always the case

#

going off of xanathars

#

but it still raises the question, would the result of that breeding be always cambion or the sort or could it be purely humanoid

mellow ferry
#

Cambions in 5e are any half-fiend.

Pre-5e, they were more unique.

iron saffron
#

Pre-5E cambions were male half-demons while their female counterparts were alu-fiends

mellow ferry
#

1e/2e they were specifically the children of a demon and a human female, and were always born male.
3e, they were specifically the children of a demon and a tiefling.
4e they were specifically the children of a devil and a human.
5e they are all progeny of any fiend and any humanoid.

#

alu-fiends were the offspring of a succubus and a humanoid, and were always born female

iron saffron
#

My players ran into him in the Expedition to the Demonweb Pits.

mellow ferry
#

Yes. Cambions were in the 3.5e adventure module Expedition to the Demonweb Pits. Alu-fiends never got their own statblock in 3rd edition though.

James Jacobs said that he wanted to give them their own statblock, but never found the space to include them in his writings that had a maximum page count.

distant brook
#

How do the people of the realms view metallic dragons? Do they welcome them with open arms or are they wary of them just like any other dragon?

serene crater
#

I'd figure they'd be welcomed as they're seen as good beings, along with the fact bahamut followers might throw a celebration for them. though thats just my perception of it

grim siren
#

In the forgotten realms its important to note that education is not the most renowned thing. As in most people can barely read and write out side of the major cities. So If they knew the difference at all between metallic and chromatic dragons. It is highly likely they would still fear metallic dragons.

Considering even though they are good, they are still giant flying lizards that harness elemental powers beyond what they think might even be possible.

All in all. Dragons be scary no matter their alignment. Doesn't help dragons largely don't understand or really especially care what non-dragons think about them.

iron saffron
#

Note that metallic dragons tend to have a shapechange ability to allow themselves to polymorph into a humanoid so they can integrate among humanoid societies without scaring them.

obsidian gate
distant brook
#

I wonder how a commoner would react to finding out that their best friend Steve next door is actually a silver dragon after years of getting to know him?

#

I don’t think it’s not too out of the question for a crystal dragon to do the same given how sociable they are. Heck, ice dragon’s hunt even has the villagers trying to help out the crystal dragon.

grim siren
#

A commoner? They would probably flip out.

white ravine
#

I'd imagine it's a similar feeling to finding out that you've been living next to a secret agent your entire life

#

It's shocking at first, might make some people wanna skip town, but if they ask for your help you know it's important.

burnt iron
#

I would want to know what a dragon could possibly want with my help

#

Other than 'convenient roadside snack' I'm not sure what help I could possibly be to a dragon.

distant brook
#

Lol, it would be more like accidentally walking in on them and being like: "Hey Steve you accidentally left your... OH MY GOD!"

white ravine
burnt iron
#

Sure, but neither can I :p

white ravine
#

Right, but your at least physically capable

#

Only way a dragon possibly could is by imbuing it with magic, but thats like using a synthesizer to make music for yourself. It gets old and its not very engaging

#

Kidnapping some bard to play some exotic songs on a lyre from their home town? Now THAT is worth the effort.

solid verge
#

Is there any doc or rescoure i could use to understand dragons better? Mainly the chromatic and metallic ones

unkempt merlin
#

Fizbans Treasure of Dragons

solid verge
#

ah danke

iron saffron
#

You can check out the Dragonomicon from older editions. They're more detailed than Fizban's

storm dagger
rancid lark
#

it was a lore thing that he was a god who got beaten up by a lich demigoddess, he then cameback as a shadow fragment of his former self, and would become a true god of undeath once he got his wand back which was hidden by the demigod and her followers.

white ravine
#

He pretty much got it all back yeah, at least accounting for rebalancing across editions

grim siren
#

5e and Lore is like playing "Whose Line is it Anyway"

crude blaze
#

The points don’t matter? Agreed

unkempt merlin
#

Small amounts of lore vs large amounts of lore that's always contradicting itself

grim siren
#

Lore contradictions in big spaces like how the world came to be don't really bother me much. As it can be merely tied to different peoples believe different things. Different accounts of the same event provide different results and a GM can chose which thread they wish to follow. That's imo better than the hyper Lore lite 5e has gone.

unkempt merlin
#

Well that's the other thing. They just aren't releasing 20 books per year and not every book they release is intended to be a full lore book or have lore outside of a specific scope

grim siren
#

That is true its unfortunate that 5e has gone so lore lite even within their scope. SCAG and Spelljammer was so so so lite on things. Van Richten's boasted 30 domains but most were a paragraph at most.

#

In the case of the realms I also tell people to buy adventure modules over SCAG as the 5e modules to a better job at explaining the places than the setting book did.

#

And I understand that settings don't sell well and that most people are in their own homebrew worlds. I totally get that. My issue with how 5e has done them is I am choosing to pay money so that I don't have to do the world building. Either narratively or mechanically. And 5e's approach has been lack luster on that front.

zenith dust
#

honestly look at the eberron book - chock full of lore. it's just the mechanical support books that are going less-lore

#

I'm very, very happy that I don't have to have realms lore tied into my phb and monster manual anymore

unkempt merlin
#

SCAG does a fine enough job with broad overviews. Spelljammer was lite but only because the book with the lore in the pack was small. Effectively 2/3 the size of other settings books because that last third was an adventure (which had lore of its own). Spelljammer followed the 5e design for setting books of "overviews of the setting and some places".

Adventures will always give you more specific location lore because that's the lore that is actually required for the adventure, and it generally doesn't stray outside that that much.

#

Even Eberron and Wildemount, IMO the two best settings in 5e, are in the overview of places not focusing on specifics side of lore

burnt iron
#

Van Richten's Guide had a ton of lore in it, it was really fun to read

unkempt merlin
#

VGR does the same thing yea, broad overviews. It's just that it was doing broad overviews of a lot of things so it was a bit less for each individually

burnt iron
#

But face it...D&D lore contradictions are really minor compared to what some games have done.

Vampire the Masquerade, anyone?

unkempt merlin
#

I'm not saying 5e has anywhere near the same amounts of lore as past editions. But I am saying that on a book to lore ratio, it's pretty equivalent

burnt iron
#

It has way more lore than 4E did.

#

And as for 3/3.5 5E hasn't been out as long as 3.5 was I don't think. So it makes sense that 3.5 had more lore

#

We're seeing more lore for 5E as time goes on

unkempt merlin
#

The book schedule during 3.X was far more books per year

burnt iron
#

nod yep

unkempt merlin
#

Well over 10

burnt iron
#

So yeah I agree. 5E, given the volume of material, is about on par. There's plenty of lore in 5E

unkempt merlin
#

But also what Dave said. A lot of people are expecting lore in places that frankly shouldn't have it

#

Like MMM didn't need a lot of lore. It's a generic non setting specific book for monsters and races. You can't give a lot of lore for that type of book without becoming setting specific

#

It's what happened with the Monster Manual

#

That's why the MM is just a FR lore book

ancient bridge
#

Is there no longer a deity of fertility in FR?

unkempt merlin
#

? No there are plenty of fertility deities in the FR

iron saffron
#

There are numerous pantheons in FR

mystic merlin
# zenith dust honestly look at the eberron book - chock full of lore. it's just the mechanical...

Dragonlance as well, laser on thick enough you can probably pick up all modules and run them as is without having to adapt to much if anything.

So they are in forsaking lore. They’re just not attaching the Lore to the base chassis framework. They’re not making it so late with the PHB, every organ. Every game has a bunch of character traits that came from Gruumsh even though he might not exist in a given game.

mystic merlin
# burnt iron But face it...D&D lore contradictions are really minor compared to what some gam...

Masquerade and requiem go out of their way to treat new additions as revisions. They are supposed to be updates and changes not a continuous string.

The desire for more and more new things, but not ever been doing anything previously written, is a very DND specific thing. There are a lot of foibles specific to our community that we assume are universal, because, well, we tend to bring them with us when we go to those other communities.

burnt iron
mystic merlin
#

I don’t remember that but I was always more interested in werewolf.

Storyteller system was big on seeming-contradictions as layers of conspiracy and story hooks though, which is something D&D should do more.

crude blaze
#

Yeah, a lot of WoD lore contradictions kinda get swiped away by saying the lore was told by an unreliable narrator, or was just an unconfirmed myth.

left spindle
#

I feel that generic, non setting specific creature books are not useful to me as a DM

#

Like, if you give me a stat block and say "this is a snoglax, they have a claw attack 2d8, they have a bite attack 1d6, they have 40 hp" that gives me nothing to design an encounter with, just a set of numbers and the presence of claws and teeth

unkempt merlin
#

That's the thing though, they don't have no lore, they just have small amounts that (generally, albeit not always) don't reference setting specific stuff

#

They still tell you "how" a creature fits, just not "here's how a creature fits exactly into a specific setting"

left spindle
#

I haven't read Mordenkainen's, I don't have access to a copy, but I'm pessimistic about whether generic lore is useful to me. Like, I can tell you what a goblin is without any regard for a goblin's context in a specific world. And I don't really need a book to tell me what a generic goblin is like. I've been around a lot of them.

iron saffron
#

I loved the old Dragon Magazin's Ecology Of series because they went into detail of monsters beyond the one sentence/paragaph blurbs in the older MMs.

left spindle
#

Yeah, Volo's has that vibe. Lots of monster ecology.

white ravine
#

Always more lore than less in my eyes. You can choose to ignore lore you dont like without even raising a finger, compared to the opposite where if you dont like the snippets of lore given you gotta do the work yourself to fix it

wanton wren
#

where do banished illithids go? dndThink

white ravine
#

Illithids arent considered outsiders so they wouldnt be forced to another plane

That being said, even if it did for some reason shunt them to the far realm they could simply warp back

normal wave
#

i am confused on something, what's the real differences between sorcerers and wizards? from what i understand is that sorcerers have magical blood and wizards don't? but in the lore a lot of wizards are said to have arcane flowing through their veins, Halaster is said to be wholly arcane that's why he doesn't age, another thing is children from tow wizard parents are said to have magical affinity, so either wizards can become sorcs or there is something i am missing?

grim siren
#

It really depends on the setting for the degree of separation. In the Forgotten Realms. Magic is much much more rare that in eberron. All people who can do magic have it in their blood. Warlock, wizard, sorcerer, bard, etc. How they access magic, and how naturally it comes is the distinction.

Wizards have some of the most potent affinity for Magical Art, but they have to learn how to unlock and use it.

Warlocks have power granted/unlocked by another being, this is similar to Paladins which unless you are going the "I am too cool for religion" route have power granted by someone else.

Sorcerers are a lot like wizards. But their blood is less potent. To off set this things come much much more naturally to the sorcerer. And they have abilities to tap into raw magical power (Meta Magic) either intentionally....or unintentionally (Wild Magic)

mystic merlin
# left spindle Like, if you give me a stat block and say "this is a snoglax, they have a claw a...

I think the issue here is that ecology of the organism is being lumped under lore and that’s not always true.

A mimic is an amorphous creature which can mimic wood and stone texture, is adhesive, and can develop capacity for speech. Cool! That’s useful because it tells me how they hunt, what they want and how they can get it.

I don’t need to know which god in Faerun made them or where they evolved from or why

mellow ferry
#

Wizards, at least in the Forgotten Realms, have a thing called the Gift. Without the Gift, a person will struggle just to cast a cantrip, no matter how good their teacher is or how good the student is at understanding what they've been taught. The Gift is something you're born with, and though you're more likely to have it if you come from a magical bloodline, it's not necessary to have magic-wielding ancestors to be born with the Gift. I equate it to being Force-sensitive in Star Wars.

Sorcerers have some powerfully magical ancestor of some description, most likely a dragon, but could be on of a lot of things. Sorcerers derive their magical power directly from their special ancestry.

As far as I'm aware, the Gift is a concept fairly unique to the Forgotten Realms and other campaign settings just require you to be smart enough to understand the concepts and formulae of magic to become a wizard (heck, in Dark Sun, you don't even need to be that smart to wield magic).

outer apex
#

where have you seen this Gift? I've seen magic referred to as the Art, but not that

mellow ferry
mystic merlin
crude blaze
#

Yeah, it’s not really a “genetics” thing.

mellow ferry
#

Well, yes, an "otherworldly influence" or "exposure to unknown cosmic forces" could also create a sorcerer in 5th edition.

mystic merlin
#

I actually think that’s more important than grandma being down bad for Bahamut but that’s me dndLol

snow laurel
#

Is there any reason why a warforged buried underground could not spend hundreds of years clawing itself out with its bare hands? I know in eberron lore they're a recent invention, but assuming the same "biology" as an eberron warforged but in a world where they were considerably more ancient, since they don't need to eat or sleep they could just dig for centuries right?

#

My DM is thinking of allowing warforged in their game as a piece of lost technology from an ancient era and I literally want my dude to just start the game popping out of the ground after being buried and digging for eons

mystic merlin
mellow ferry
#

Depends on what they'd have to dig through really. Warforged fingers aren't exactly made out of adamantine. They'd break on a lot of minerals. Also, shifting weight from the topsoil/rock above them, etc.

mystic merlin
#

Your fingers twitch. Back. Forth. Back. Forth. Barely anything but more, slightly more each time. Eventually, your hands, the wrists. They’re mobile. The dirt, packed, gives you movement. You try to twist— the dirt crumbles in. Your hands, again, trapped.

grim juniper
#

unless it was a very very shallow grave lol

snow laurel
#

so yeah their fingers would be worn a bit but they also grow back

grim juniper
#

??????

mystic merlin
grim juniper
#

i don't think a machine can just "grow new fingers"

snow laurel
mystic merlin
snow laurel
grim juniper
#

maybe they'd adapt the stones that keep messing there hands up

snow laurel
#

like... ten thousand years? a hundred thousand?

grim juniper
#

and use them as makeshift tools?

snow laurel
#

I realize what I'm effectively asking is "is a warforged a perpetual motion machine"?

mystic merlin
# snow laurel If you go at a slow enough pace though?

I don’t think you understand the scale here.

Take your finger. Put your hand on the soil. Then try to sit with literally just your finger tip because the weight of a freight truck is holding you down.

See how much work you can actually do when bending one knuckle of one finger takes the strength of Hercules.

grim juniper
#

if you left a warforged in a pit....i'm sure that thing would continue to try to claw it's way out

#

might even cut out a entire area of ground in the attempt

mellow ferry
#

IF the warforged manages to get out to the surface from that situation, and that's still a massive 'if', they'd undoubtedly be insane after spending so much of that time digging.

mystic merlin
#

If the arms are free you’re golden but buried, completely? Not happening no matter how much time you’ve got.

snow laurel
grim juniper
#

so a insane warforged?

mystic merlin
#

Orange flag for me. Insanity as a trope tends to be either shallow and overblown or problematic.

eager bay
#

Should WotC give the Mystara setting more love? Maybe in 6th Edition or whatever

stuck breach
#

like that's gonnahappen

white ravine
#

Like a vampire bat will let go of a dying horse

mystic merlin
rancid phoenix
#

How do Slaadi(s?) advance in their society?

grim siren
#

Generally speaking, when slaads ascended to higher ranks and consequently had the power to pursue their desires more freely, they were able to better define themselves as individuals. The logical end point of this was that in order to obtain true freedom, slaads had to become truly unique individuals by completely escaping the ranks of their kind. To do this, slaads had to tap into an aspect of chaos unexplored by any other slaad lord, which could be as simple as destruction, as benign as creativity or as malevolent as murder.

The process was incredibly dangerous, but if it succeeded the slaad would infuse themselves with power and purpose, becoming a personification of their own particular flavor of chaos with no resemblance to the common slaads. The limitations of slaad lords or how many could exist were unexplored as a result of Ygorl's tampering, but given that they lived on the plane of ultimate possibility, anything was possible.

mystic merlin
# rancid phoenix How do Slaadi(s?) advance in their society?

I don’t think they have a society? They just exist in the infinite expense of Limbo. Their society is more like various individuals who browbeat each other into joining a street gang, last I looked.

Dragon articles are good sources though! Wonder if that accounts for white slaad, black slaad and death slaad?

#

Oh, wow

#

They were the creatures responsible for directing the efforts of the slaad race and inscribing the symbols of rank into the heads of other slaads.

#

So not only was I wrong but I was BIG wrong, alright! Cool, and it has sources so I can check that out, fabulous.

It is wild seeing 2e planescape, 4e world axis, and 3e/5e forgotten realms great wheel all merged like this though dndLol

polar igloo
#

I am trying to find a race that is mostly solitary/lives on their own according to lore, but that is also proficient in wisdom and dexterity.

iron saffron
#

Why the entire race when you can just say your character is a loner.

#

The rules in Tasha's allows you to use the ASI for any ability score now.

polar igloo
polar igloo
iron saffron
#

+2 or +1 / +1 to whichever ability scores you want.

polar igloo
iron saffron
#

That's up to the DM if that applies to the older playable races in the PHB.

polar igloo
iron saffron
#

Sorry it's +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1

#

The most recent playable races in Mordenkainen's Monsters of the Multiverse uses the +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1 ASI

polar igloo
#

One more thing, so if I am understanding "ASI" correctly, does that basically mean, for example, with a wood elf, I could "swap out" the elves +2 DEX for say a, +2 INT if I really wanted to?

iron saffron
#

Yes, the new rules lets you swap out the previous default racial ASI.

polar igloo
#

Okay thanks, yeah I will keep this in mind to share with the DM.

shell gale
#

Hey...is a pipe the only real way folks smoke in D&D? I have an underworld Thri-kreen type who would alternate between different smoking methods with his extra hands XD

#

I don't know if hookah is something that has actually been established in Toril lol

#

I know a module has a sort of "incense" type but I don't recall other types of tobacco ingestion.

shell gale
#

Thri-kreen use only they pronouns right? (That's how I've seen it done...idk if official otherwise)

white ravine
#

I believe its only they, yes

outer apex
#

Thri-kreen have a non-gendered pronoun, ker in the dark sun setting

#

"Thri-kreen have a gender-neutral pronoun (ker), as well as male and female pronouns. They do not have different pronouns (such as "he" and "him") for nominative and subjective cases. Thri-kreen have no "shorthand" for possession, as in non-kreen languages, so instead of stating "that is Req's chatkcha," they are more inclined to say "that chatkcha belongs to Req."

shell gale
#

Is there any sort of "tracking a ship by spelljamming emissions"? Like a trail to follow somewhat xD

#

If not then yolo, I'm making it lol

outer apex
#

I mean, a far enough detect magic? otherwise no, they don't have that from what I'm finding

eager bay
#

is there any example of dragon crossbreeds, like a red green dragon?

jagged apex
#

i know 2e draconomicon had such information

mellow ferry
#

Male song dragons were incredibly rare, so they often bred with other types of dragon.

There was an elven experiment where a red dragon egg was altered to hatch a red dragon that had the physical characteristics of a blue dragon

jagged apex
#

like basically provided lore and charts for dragons cross breeding and how some cases could be super volatile and basically be like an rng machine if you had like 2 metallics, but dragons rarely of their own accord cross breed

jagged apex
#

least as i recall it

#

does anyone know if an elvish shield guardian would look any different from the norm? cuz i notice the elves have a specific name for them but no other alternate names in other languages in the forgotten realms are mentioned

eager bay
mellow ferry
eager bay
#

ok, i thought the story had something to do with the red fingers but its been years since i watch the video

jaunty light
#

Where can I find legit videos on the lore of Greyhawk?

iron saffron
jaunty light
#

Thank you🙏

spring dagger
#

What do grung scholars look like and study?

cunning girder
#

Like frog people and study whatever interests them as scholars

spring dagger
#

How does that work in Grung society? I mean, from what I've read, they're pretty tribalistic. I don't imagine they have the greatest access to most knowledge, unlike a standard scholar.

#

And by look like I meant what would they wear? I've seen a lot of official artwork for the more common Grung castes, but not for the higher ups

ionic rivet
#

According to the lore, grung take on the color of their caste. Red grungs are the tribe's scholars/magic users. Individual grungs who achieve particular excellence can earn an invitation to join a higher caste and an herbal tonic/magic ritual is used to change their color and induct them into the new caste. So as far as what they wear, probably something that goes well with their caste coloration.
and looking at the other lore about grung, this lore can be so problematic

spring dagger
#

Right. That's basically word for word what I read. But that still leaves open what scholars learn about. I don't imagine they keep a history or are into the creation of literature. And for as far as the clothes for their caste, that's my question. What would a red Grung wear? I've only seen like 1 piece of official artwork for what a red Grung should wear. Fanart typically has them wearing normal clothes

ionic rivet
#

It doesn't say what they wear - but based on the environment (forest and jungles) likely clothing that would work well in that environment.
As for what the scholars learn - they can learn anything as the lore doesn't specify they are constrained in any way on what they're capable of studying and learning.

spring dagger
#

Alright, thank you :)

spark haven
#

people remembered lunar cycles long before paper was invented

#

and given the heavy involvement of magic in the world, it'd make sense that these tribes shamans would also be their arguably most educated citizens

eager bay
#

what's going on in the Moonshae Isles?

mellow ferry
#

High King Derid Kendrick rules from Caer Callidyr on Alaron. A shadow dragon commands a legion of orcs in the mountains, battling against dwarves and human adventurers.

Lady Ordalf still rules in Sarifal, but shares Gwynneth with the Llewyr elves and a small number of dwarves. The High King is trying to be diplomatic with Ordalf and regain a foothold on the island, but so far has failed to do so. Winterglen forest is full of dark fey, and Ordalf's son, Araithe is fighting against them.

Moray is beset by several threats, including Malarite lycanthropes, giants, orcs, and ogres. The Ffolk there are desperately holding on.

On Norland, a woman blessed of both Umberlee and Valkur, called the Storm Maiden, rose to power, and then disappeared into the ocean. Jarl Rault of the Northlanders is really very old, but only has a granddaughter to succeed him, which is concerning to the male-dominated status quo.

Oman's Isle is still dominated by formorians, who try to dash any ships or boats who approach too closely.

Snowdown is a 4th generation Amnian colony, ruled by a "Bloody" Lady Erliza, who oppresses the Ffolk natives to dig up increasingly diminishing resources. Erliza has put down several native rebellions, and Amn is considering pulling out of the venture.

eager bay
#

Thanks! This is just such an odd setting though, lol

#

So essentially there are pockets of humans struggling to survive against all sorts of monsters

mellow ferry
#

Classic points of light concept

eager bay
#

I'm not sure I follow

#

Are people still relatively safe in the heart of Alaron and Gwynneth?

mellow ferry
#

The points of light concept of worldbuilding is that there are threats everywhere, but bastions of safety and civilisation dotted about.

#

You're safe in the heart of Alaron, yes. You're only safe in Gwynneth if Lady Ordalf accepts you

eager bay
#

Interesting, but how does she vet every person? It's a pretty big island

mellow ferry
#

Racism. If you're summer fey, you're good. If you're an elf, druid or a naturalised dwarf, you're tolerated. If you're none of those things, she won't have you killed, but neither are you welcome in Sarifal.

Prince Araithe on the other hand, is quite happy to let those his mother wouldn't tolerate onto Gwynneth, so long as they come specifically to help him fight the winter fey.

eager bay
#

So human merchants might be allowed near Karador and within Araithe's more open influence - if they help with the war effort (maybe through taxes and helping the countryside thrive)?

mellow ferry
#

The specific text is:

"High Lady Ordalf's son, Prince Araithe, leads the struggle against the darker fey of the forest of Winterglen. The prince is a pragmatist willing to accept aid in fending off his people's foes, and so has been known to allow adventuring companies to cross the Strait of Alaron and land on Gwynneth, if they pledge to aid the cause."

eager bay
#

Otherwise: are there still Ffolks in the South?

mellow ferry
#

Some druids, yes.

eager bay
#

My character is a Ffolk, and I was trying to set him up in the boonies of Moonshae; and apparently Sarifal doesn't cover the whole island

mellow ferry
#

Caer Corwell is in ruins

eager bay
#

Any small village type deals?

mellow ferry
#

Dwarven ones

eager bay
#

But nothing survives of Corwell at all, not even a human settlement?

#

Maybe I should just change his backstory to living on Alaron

#

So that his journey is Pembroke > Callidyrr > Sword Coast

#

Rather than having to painstakingly justify them living on a fey, elven, dwarven and druid island

mellow ferry
#

Sarifal doesn't cover the entire island in practice, no, but in theory, Lady Ordalf rules over the entire island. Synnoria is allowed to exist in the mountains, but other than that, it's said only a few small shield dwarf settlements and druid circles still exist.

eager bay
#

Hmm, so better Southern Alaron

#

For a Ffolk character

mellow ferry
#

I'd say so, yes

eager bay
#

Synnoria is Llewyrr? So the cousins of shipwrecked high elves

#

Thanks for all the tips! I was finding the lore very confusing compared to the Sword Coast city states

mellow ferry
#

Yep. Synnoria is Llewyrr. Has been for over ten thousand years

eager bay
#

I can't imagine a DM acting as an 11,000 year old being, must be hard

mellow ferry
#

Technically impossible, since we have no decent frame of reference. All we can do is try our best.

errant anvil
#

Was there ever an official answer as to how Mahadi the Rakshasa gained Asmodeus' favor?

mellow ferry
#

He's an informant. He tells Asmodeus about everything that goes on in the Wandering Emporium.

errant anvil
mellow ferry
#

Asmodeus is Mahadi's patron, and is also under a binding infernal contract with him to not stage a coup or help others to do so. All contracts that Mahadi makes, he makes on behalf of Asmodeus, so the Lord of Nessus profits from every deal that Mahadi makes. Mahadi is also a primary supplier of war materials for the Blood War.

#

So

  1. He's loyal
  2. He performs not one, but three essential services for Az
  3. People trust Mahadi in a way that they'd never trust Az
mystic merlin
terse wren
#

Today I learned.
Do not the fey

#

The fey seem equally if not more perilous than demons or devils

stuck breach
#

Yep

viscid dock
#

Are there any rules for demons/devils before they can invade the Material Plane? Can overall Abyss dwellers arrive at material plane? I'm struggling to find any material regarding interconnection rules between worlds in dnd.

iron saffron
#

Demons can't easily leave the Abyss. They need to find a portal or be summoned.
Devils go to Material Plane to tempt mortals to sign away their souls (devils use souls to create more devils).

Demons and devils are too busy fighting each other in the Blood War to invade the Material Plane.

pseudo wind
#

Extraplanar entities in general need to either come in through summoning magic or portals, yeah. The more powerful, the harder it is. There aren't any rules that flesh those out, unfortunately

iron saffron
#

Of course celestials would help to stop any fiendish invasion of the Material Plane.

pseudo wind
#

Hell it wouldn't just be the celestials, there's a lot of powers that be who have investments in the Material

iron saffron
#

Yup that too.

#

There have been numerous adventures about cultists trying summon their demon lord patron and of course the heroes have to put a stop to it.

foggy seal
#

Is treant pronounced “Tree-Ant”

burnt iron
#

closer to tree-ent

#

the a makes more of an eh sound

mystic merlin
# pseudo wind Extraplanar entities in general need to either come in through summoning magic o...

Rules at that level are supposed to be campaign dependent. 🙂
I think 4e specifically touched on why devils can’t just Gate themselves in, but I don’t remember them.

The usual version I see is some variation of The Interdict and The Accord; the forces of Cosmic Good do not get involved because it would cause strife amongst them, and the forces of Cosmic Evil do not get involved because they are mystically banned from doing so, unable to enter the Prime sage through specific channels outside of their power.

Devils and Daemons get a by because they are commerce-facing and so the rules for getting them involved are clearer, whereas demon summoning tends to resemble a lot more “I want to sic a dog on my enemies” or witches cavorting with dark powers in the woods.

mystic merlin
foggy seal
#

Tree Ant

pseudo wind
#

Bleegh, I'm not fond of that version, i.e. only devils can get away with it because their charisma score is 300

#

Actually I'm jumping the shark a bit, you didn't reference that, you said it's cause they're more structured, and I just assumed that's how they apparently can do awful stuff because they're rules lawyers

white ravine
viscid dock
#

So, basically, someone on material plane must lend a hand in order for them to arrive?

pseudo wind
#

It's certainly the most common way, yeahv

stuck breach
#

There are portals here and there

#

But you gotta knwo where to look

viscid dock
#

Got it. Thanks a lot.

white ravine
#

It's also possible for demons or devils to perpetually spawn more of their kind in the material

#

One demon shows up (alkiliths for example) in a dark cave and suddenly theres a countryside epidemic of quasit attacks and vrock massacres

storm dagger
#

Natural portals to the Abyss are rare, but are super dangerous once they manifest.

#

And they tend to manifest as a result of Abyssal corruption in an area

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
pseudo wind
#

I still find it utterly stupid that for some reason, celestials can't stop them from corrupting people cause "oops sorry it's out of our hands :/"

mystic merlin
#

Not can’t as in are incapable, but can’t because it’s an agreement between cosmic forces which would cause more damage to break than otherwise.

white ravine
#

Celestials cant stop them because its more an overreaching of law and a dampener on one's free will

#

If the celestials overreach like that, it creates imbalance

mystic merlin
#

The truth is fiends don’t have easy access to the Prime for balance reasons. Once any fiend with the Gate spell can show up, everything becomes a race to first set up a series of protections so your arrival can’t be divined, then divining who first finds you anyway, and then gating in, in mass to take over before you’re Attacked.

pseudo wind
#

and corrupting souls isn't dampening free will?

#

it's not in balance if evil is allowed to run unchecked for no reason

white ravine
#

Explicitly no, mainly by the fact that the victims of devil contracts are all willing individuals

mystic merlin
white ravine
#

Asmodeus won his case on that point specifically, else there would be no devil deals at all

mystic merlin
#

But as this is, as noted, speculation from existing modes, it can be dismissed.

mystic merlin
#

It’s lore but it’s not, like, canon, which is a weird distinction to make but still there 🙂

pseudo wind
#

I'm not sure I believe that every victim from devil predation were all willing, especially if pacts exist that end up damning their descendants, friends, or loved ones

white ravine
#

That introduces the #1 rule of devil society

#

If your gonna break the rules, dont get caught.

#

There are definitely people who got swindled by devils and their contracts, but you'd be lucky to prove it

#

Dealing with immortal lawyers here, they make #dnd-rules look like kittens.

mystic merlin
#

In the codex even

white ravine
#

Correct, but it still happens regardless

#

Its funny though that the courts exist even if they make perfect sense

mystic merlin
#

Sure, maybe. But that is less “don’t get caught” and more that the ‘rules’ and laws are implied and don’t textually exist.

#

It’s sort of a thing, that we don’t have the actual rules because they’re setting dependent. Though maybe planescape has us covered?

white ravine
#

I mean...they do, the contracts are binding after all. If theyre broken bad things can happen

#

Im gonna be thrown for a loop of planescape has anything that is interesting without being a massive retcon or being ripped from older editions

#

New lore? In my 5th edition?

pseudo wind
#

y'all likely know more about D&D's version of devils than I do so I'll take your word for it. I guess...I dunno, I know I've said this before but I'm sick of cosmic evil somehow allowed to always get away with doing awful things with no repercussions while cosmic good is depicted as incompetent and useless. The whole "that's what PC heroes are for" excuse kinda runs thin after a while

unkempt merlin
white ravine
unkempt merlin
#

just less of it

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
white ravine
pseudo wind
#

"Good is Boring" or something

mystic merlin
#

Dragonlance got cleaned up real nice, and while I don’t prefer what they did to the emperor of the old empire, I do understand why and it makes for a punchier and more engaging game framework 🙂

pseudo wind
#

I remember reading about how celestials actually do fight both devils and demons in the Blood War, just outside the Lower Planes. Basically if they take their fighting anywhere else, they're fair game

mystic merlin
white ravine
#

The only reason why the blood war never seems to slow down is because they respawn

#

That and its pointless to 'wage war' like that beyond the sake of war

#

Youll never be able to truly end the lower planes

mystic merlin
pseudo wind
#

apparently the Blood War touched almost every plane in Planescape

mystic merlin
pseudo wind
#

but in 5e it's nerfed to just Avernus and the Lower Planes

white ravine
pseudo wind
#

I think the only planes it never touched was Mechanus, Mount Celestia, and...well not a plane, but Sigil

white ravine
mystic merlin
pseudo wind
#

does it? It's been a hot minute since I read Mordekainen's

white ravine
mystic merlin
#

And since we are discussing relative infinities it’s much easier than winning the blood war

pseudo wind
#

yeah, Sigil's reason is obvious, because L a d y o f P a i n, Celestia's basically a fortress, and Mechanus is full of terrifying modrons that scare away any fiend that beholds their foul visages

white ravine
#

Celestia also has an ocean of holy water that people get dunked in before they even hit the mountain

mystic merlin
#

I suspect modrons assist devils actually

white ravine
#

Its like that one scene in osmosis jones

pseudo wind
#

they probably assist devils, but I'd feel like they'd have idealogical splits somewhere

mystic merlin
pseudo wind
#

devils revel in cruelty and exploiting law to strangle out the weak, modrons don't care about the laws being benevolent or cruel, they just need to exist

#

they're the ones who won't shut up about cosmic balance

white ravine
#

To the point they visit you every few centuries to ask if youve done your chores

pseudo wind
#

apparently the illithid empire became so large and powerful that it actually gave both demons and devils pause in the Blood War

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
pseudo wind
#

lemme see

#

some passage in the Illithiad, hmmm...

white ravine
#

Illithids are great.

#

Just nothing but joy as I commit atrocities against my players

pseudo wind
#

I can't actually find the passage, just websites asserting to it, but basically the devils and demons considered a truce, though it never happened because the illithids collapsed before they could actually invade the Outer Planes

mystic merlin
#

One day I’ll remember I both have the and have not read the illithid d dndLol

pseudo wind
#

a species capable of conquering both the Astral and Ethereal planes, yeah I'd hesitate too

#

it's referenced on page 38

mystic merlin
#

They also may have jumped back in time bazillions of years to avoid the one threat big enough to end them!

#

which really makes me wonder how that whole Gith rebellion thing happened

#

Dyno got something

pseudo wind
#

time travel makes my brain hurt

eager bay
#

Which D&D settings have evolution a thing and which ones are strictly creationist?

burnt iron
#

I don't think I know of any official settings that used evolution

serene crater
white ravine
pseudo wind
#

naw

burnt iron
#

My bad then, I guess I forgot that

pseudo wind
iron saffron
#

D&D has been pretty much creationists since gods play a big thing — the sentient/sapient species tend to have their own creator gods.

Humans seem to be the exception since they have no one pantheon.

pseudo wind
#

in Eberron at least it's very vague on what's evolution or creationist

white ravine
mystic merlin
storm dagger
#

The Gith did not have the Red Dragons when they did their rebellion

hexed smelt
#

can someone explain me eladrin lore?

stuck breach
#

Eladrin are elves native to the feywild

#

They're sort of like original elves. Other elves left the feywild and changed into what they are now, the eladrin never left

#

They all have an affinity to a particular season, so they change to reflect that

iron saffron
#

In 2E and 3E lore, there were the celestial eladrin native to the outer plane, Arborea.

mellow ferry
#

Eladrin. One of my least favourite lore topics.

Trying to keep it as simple as possible, there are 3 different types of eladrin:

  1. Chaotic-aligned celestials that resemble elves.
  2. A grouping of feywild natives considered to be nobles of that place, including certain archfey, the creatures called LeShay, and feywild elves who'd risen through the feywild social landscape to become nobility.
  3. An elven subrace from the feywild with powers relating to the seasons of the world.

To make it even more confusing, some people refer to high elves as eladrin as well.

grim siren
#

yeah Eladrin seem to be this group that WOTC cannot decide internally what they are and so it seems to change often sometimes within editions

crude blaze
#

Changes almost as often as elves do

mellow ferry
#

Shadar-kai too. Fundamentally changed twice - started off as fey, then they were shadowy humans, now they're reincarnated elves.

reef kindle
#

Very quick question. Is there an official elven term for ‘Mother?’

sour wolf
#

Hi! I was invited to an already-running Greyhawk campaign. Is there anywhere you guys recommend to catch the basics of Greyhawk lore? YouTube hasn't given me a lot to work with 😅

inland bloom
reef kindle
inland bloom
#

like WOTC official? Don't think so.

reef kindle
#

I’ll take what I can get

#

Thanks :)

sterile breach
iron saffron
#

There are a few Youtubers that are dedicated to Greyhawk: The Greyhawk Channel, Greyhawk Grognard, The Grey League, Lord Gosumba, and AJ Pickett (who does general D&D lore)

muted hedge
#

do assimars know they are assimar?

#

would it be pretty believable one didnt know they were until the were in their 20s?

iron saffron
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

Perhaps they have signs of their celestial ancestry when they're younger. Maybe glowing eyes, a halo, or knubs of vestigal wings as teenagers.

mellow ferry
#

The writeup in Volo's says that unless they've turned to evil, they'll have a deva, or some other kind of angelic being, talking in their heads.

runic cave
#

Hello! Does anyone know if there is an adventure before “Adventures in Blackmoor” it’s set ~4000 BC (-3671 DR)?

eager bay
#

@mystic merlin Are you familiar with the Tuatha De Danann of Celtic mythos?

iron saffron
eager bay
#

Would I be alone if I said I like Mystara more than FR?

iron saffron
#

You have mentioned it many times.

runic cave
iron saffron
#

They're not the same worlds so different timelines. Not a 1:1 translation though.

#

Besides, this channel is full of lore nerds.

runic cave
#

It still takes place in the multiverse. I’m not looking for mystara specifically, just any adventure!

iron saffron
#

DA1 Adventures in Blackmoor
DA2 Temple of the Frog
DA3 City of the Gods
DA4 The Duchy of Ten

runic cave
#

Or book! Books work too

iron saffron
runic cave
#

So does that mean “adventures in Blackmoor” is the earliest product set in mystara?

iron saffron
#

The Mystara planet also has sub-settings. The older Blackmoor setting was retconned to exist in Mystara's distant past

runic cave
#

Ok, perfect, so that would make “adventures in Blackmoor” the earliest adventure in the multiverse, right?

mystic merlin
#

What is the timeline of the four adventures put forth by airwreck?

#

If there are only five products, just look at their timelines and see if they come before or after.

#

I am familiar with the daoine sidhe, yes

eager bay
#

maybe keep elves as wood elves for one; high elves IMO seem too fey in comparison lel

mystic merlin
#

Though various gamelines lean into this in various levels of success, and my favorite 3pp right now just uses the drow stat block for Unseelie fey

eager bay
#

So the Eladrin be more like Themselves

static smelt
# mystic merlin I think this is not a bad question (how do I differentiate elves and the Celtic ...

Eldradin are Elves that never left the Feywild.
Elves migrated to Toriel in waves and batches and that lead to them diversifying.
Wood Elves come in two flavours Copper Elves or Wild Elves are the isolationists from the Crown Wars. Standard Wood Elves or Green Elves are the result of refugees intermingling and living in peace outside of the political strife.
There are also higher Eldradin which are like a form of Elvish Asiamer for Corelleon

eager bay
#

Right, but maybe first we need to clarify whether humans, dwarves, and elves share a common ancestor and then go from there

static smelt
#

They don't they're made by separate gods in their own image

eager bay
#

the sìdhe/Tuatha De Danann are a separate race, a race of primordial, immortal beings from Tír na nÓg

eager bay
static smelt
# eager bay so no evolution? Depending on the setting

There's evolution in the case of being plane touched or wide scale worship leading to branching off I.E Yuan-Ti. But we're not talking Astrolapicitus Africanus of the Forgotten Realms, you're welcome to say that in your own setting that all creatures stem from Haflings but that's your own thing

eager bay
#

Doesn't Toril already have evolution though

static smelt
#

In what sense?

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
# static smelt They don't they're made by separate gods in their own image

This is sort of incorrect and misleading, especially as refers to the elves. The elves separating into what we currently call the various “sub races” is, indeed, Evolutionary, although magic is involved. Sun elves, moon elves, crown elves, etc. are all the same people and have only distinguished themselves over time. They were not made in the image of Correlon. Not with anything resembling attention, intention, and a guiding hand anyway.

eager bay
static smelt
mystic merlin
#

But yeah. Evolution exists, it’s just not like… important unless you want it to be?

eager bay
#

but you get what I'm trying to say, ye?

mystic merlin
#

Only a little, and I still think “the existing lore actually covers what you want, you just need to remove the “Well akshully” From it and look with fresh eyes” is the answer

eager bay
#

Just to clarify, the Tuatha De Danann are not from our world, right?

mystic merlin
#

But maybe not! If we’re talking lore then I don’t in ow what the Aes Sidhe have to do with it outside of “do they show up and get their own stat block?” (Yes, Though it varies whether they’re outsider celestials, or extraplanar fey)

eager bay
#

I'd say extraplanar fey

mystic merlin
#

Then grab the fourth edition book heroes of the feeywild.

#

You can also still find the third edition lore, articles written by Gwendolyn kestrel by using the way back machine to find the wizards of the Coast, Dnd website archives

eager bay
#

Aah yeye

#

and the aes sidhe be immortal proper

#

Maybe elves and dwarves have similar lifespans to us humans or nah?

mystic merlin
#

But I strongly feel the adding in a new thing versus scaling up. What is already there is going to be bad for the game. The history of elves in Faerun is, if not an ode to the lore you were looking for, then it rhymes with it. Carefree, otherworldly, faerie folk who make their way to our world, and maintain simultaneously both the same deific and terrifying nature of their origins (eladrin), and yet also the more folksy depiction of the impatient spirits of nature manifest (elves) is already there. It’s probably more accurate to say that the default of the Elven people is incredible, terrifying power, and whimsy, and they have been scaled down to make them playable, than the reverse.

#

Does that make sense?

#

(Rolling it around, though, I’m tempted to reframe everything as elves literally being pieces of correlon which broke off from him, as she was struck by the spear of another God. Literally,Correlon as a moon or a star, struck it with pieces of debris floating around them that’s self actualize into a new people)

eager bay
#

If humans, dwarves, and elves shared a proper common ancestor, which could possibly mean they all be descendants of a root race or smth, dwarves and elves probably couldn't have centuries worth of lifespans, huh

eager bay
mystic merlin
eager bay
#

What I'm getting at is perhaps they be separate entities

#

Elves be more earthly, more like D&D's wood elves, while the sidhe obviously be like the eladrin

pulsar flint
#

@primal ledge hi here to XD

primal ledge
#

Hi

distant brook
#

How willing would a dragon share its hoard? Especially if it meant potentially getting more treasure for its hoard?

neon pelican
#

very reluctantly probably. I'm new so ._.

#

but through myths it would be very reluctant

iron saffron
lime holly
white ravine
#

You ask a red dragon to share its hoard, it immediately will attempt to kill you

runic cave
#

Is there a list of the D&D products in chronological order?

iron saffron
#

Have you tried Google? That's 49 years of products

runic cave
#

I’ve actually tried google for 3 years

#

It was hard to even get a list of all the dnd products in general

#

I feel like someone should at least have that lying around

iron saffron
stuck breach
#

Then there's all sorts of branded merch like the D&D flashlight, etc.

iron saffron
#

Anyway, not really lore-related since you're asking about products.

runic cave
#

I’m asking about a timeline

#

In chronological order

stuck breach
#

If you had all the products, you'd have all the lore

runic cave
#

So far, adventures in Blackmoor ~4000 BC (-3671 DR) is the farthest back I have, but I just heard something in the mystara discord about CM6?

stuck breach
#

There's a lot of info on Blackmoor available online

#

Including its publication history and how it's been placed within the game's overall existence

green sigil
#

Big question. How are the races is Fearun dispersed. So far i read that dwarves, elves, gnomes, halflings, orcs are the most common races and there are many minor races, wich i imagine live in tribes or seclude communities. I really want to somewhat realisticly be able to portray the population. Since a dwarf in a xenophobic human kingdom would stick out like a sore thumb. 🙂 I hope someone can help me 🙂

iron saffron
#

If you look at the older editions' Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting books, especially the 3E one. They break down region by region in Faerun of the types of residents by racial type.

If you don't have access to those books check out the FR wiki.

runic cave
#

When did lolth invade eberron?

unkempt merlin
#

She didn't

#

If you are referring to the presence of drow in eberron, it has nothing to do with Lolth.

Drow are the result of giants magebreeding elves to hunt and kill other elves in the past. The drow in the present day are generally split into 3 cultures who do different things.

runic cave
#

Not sending photos is cringe, I can’t send photos, 1 sec

iron saffron
#

What does the portal doors have to do with Lolth?

#

She's not part of the pantheon of Eberron.

#

First, there was of course the World Serpent Inn. A variety of doors here opened to Eberron, with one of the few known relatively permanent ones leading to the Queen's Kiss flower shop in Fairhaven. Others opened to Sarlona, Sharn, and Stormreach, while one rotting door went to a ruined city known as Metrol.

runic cave
#

Oops!

#

Paragraph 4*

#

The one under that one

crude blaze
#

Also worth noting that this is Eberron lore on the (outdated) Forgotten Realms wiki, so maybe worth talking with a grain of salt.

runic cave
#

Outdated?

outer apex
#

the spinner in the shadows is the closest approximation to Lloth on eberron. She does not exist in the scope of Ebberon. That paragraph is also from the DND online video game, and may or may not be considered canon.

runic cave
#

What is the best way to find a timeline connection to eberron?

crude blaze
#

That’s gonna really vary by DM, I think. Up until very recently, Eberron wasn’t evena world you could canonically travel to/from. Even Keith Baker just recently started to entertain the idea of being able to travel to/from there.

runic cave
#

Hypothetically, if my DM was wizards of the coast and it was 1360 DR in the FR, what year would it be in eberron?

iron saffron
#

Isn't Eberron perceptually "stuck" (timeline-wise) being after the Last War?

crude blaze
#

Pretty much every Eberron campaign defaults to starting at 998YK

iron saffron
#

Timelines on different worlds aren't 1:1

runic cave
#

It takes place in like 988yk ya

iron saffron
#

Faerun has moved up years, almost with realtime (ours) years.

#

Faerun has also skipped decades, if not a century, in the timeline based on editions.

crude blaze
#

Yeah, and Eberron hasn’t. Like you don’t have to start at 998YK, but a lot of the setting assumes that’s where you’re starting from. So in that way, it’s a little landlocked.

iron saffron
#

So that's why you can't have 1:1 timeline translations between campaign setting since they're not locked.

crude blaze
#

Or I suppose “timelocked”.

runic cave
#

But the time isn’t locked, it can advance or regress depending on dm

#

I’m just looking for when 988YK is in DR

crude blaze
#

There’s no true answer for that

runic cave
#

Does the video game not take place in time?

crude blaze
#

That point is what OldMan and I are saying. There’s nothing in lore that suggests that time moves the same way in both worlds, so it’s gonna be a DM fiat.

iron saffron
#

Ask Your DM.

runic cave
iron saffron
#

Then you can decide!

runic cave
#

Well if it has no timeline then it doesn’t exist

#

Every other setting at least has spelljammer

#

It’s not worth the hoops to jump through

outer apex
#

it does have a timeline though, it just doesn't move at a rate that we can tie to DR

iron saffron
#

If you want to move up the timelines of Blackmoor, Mystara, Oerth, and/or Eberron then that's your prerogative as the DM at your table.

#

A number of those settings' lore haven't been officially updated in years (if not decades).

runic cave
# iron saffron A number of those settings' lore haven't been officially updated in years (if no...

True, but at least those settings have valid connections

Forgotten Realms - Greyhawk: The article "Magic in the Evening" in Dragon Magazine #185 connects the years 1360 DR (the Forgotten Realms novel Parched Sea) and 580 CY (the adventure Vecna Lives!). This link is also reinforced by the implication in the Ravenloft/Forgotten Realms crossover adventure The Forgotten Terror that 1367 DR and 751 BC are equivalent (see Greyhawk-Ravenloft-Planescape below). (1360 DR = 580 CY)

#

The only thing eberron would have would be the portal, because you can’t spelljam to it

stuck breach
#

The 5e Adventure book Ghosts of Saltmarsh is set in Greyhawk before the Greyhawk Wars.

iron saffron
#

Yeah, those are collections of classic adventures AD&D.

stuck breach
#

Yeah. My real point is that the timeline can be skipped around.

#

Even in official sources.

green sigil
#

Is there a acestry tree for the races ind dnd ? I know for example that dwarves used to be the same tribe but were dispersed and developed different cultures.

runic cave
iron saffron
runic cave
#

Does anyone know the difference between the lost caverns of tsojcanth and the lost caverns of tsojconth are the latter not in greyhawk?

iron saffron
#

Where did you see Lost Caverns of Tsojconth (with an O and not with an A)?

runic cave
stuck breach
# runic cave Does anyone know the difference between the lost caverns of tsojcanth and the lo...

From the Wikipedia entry: "The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth is a revised and expanded version of The Lost Caverns of Tsojconth, a tournament adventure that Gygax wrote for WinterCon V, a gaming convention sponsored by the Metro Detroit Gamers (MDG) in 1976. It is based in part on one of Rob Kuntz's dungeon levels, as Kuntz helped Gygax revise the tournament version."

Tsojconth is the name in the original version, while Tsojcanth is how they chose to spell it when they revised the document. They're not different places.

runic cave
stuck breach
# runic cave So it’s in greyhawk?

Also from the same Wikipedia entry: "The introduction, with instructions that the Dungeon Master read it aloud to the players, outlines that there is a treasure in the Yatil Mountains south of the Greyhawk realm of Perrenland."

runic cave
stuck breach
#

Or maybe you want to check out r/greyhawk, there's tons of info there

runic cave
stuck breach
#

ok

#

Did you check out r/greyhawk yet?

runic cave
stuck breach
#

r/greyhawk is a subreddit, not a discord, hence the "r/"

#

I just did a simple google search for "greyhawk timeline" and got a link to a huge timeline on a site called greyhawk online. what you're looking for might very well be there

stone night
#

does anyone have information on the lore and history of changelings? i'm trying to figure out their origins so i can come up with a reason for one to exist in FR other than "i got pulled here from eberron by a crazy wizard/magical experiment gone wrong"

iron saffron
unkempt merlin
#

Not actually! Other settings do have changelings. At least per the MM for doppelgangers

#

Changelings. Doppelgangers are too lazy or self-interested to raise their young. They assume attractive male forms and seduce women, leaving them to raise their progeny. A doppelganger child appears to be a normal member of its mother's species until it reaches adolescence, at which point it discovers its true nature and is driven to seek out its kind to join them.

#

Not quite the same as eberron of course, but they exist

neon pelican
#

oooh

#

I want to play a changeling

unkempt merlin
#

And ofc the MMM changeling are fey, which is entirely different than the eberron changeling and originates from the Feywild. Which is pretty generic but still fitting, what with the irl changeling myths and the fey

#

Aka "I'm from the feywild" is a perfectly valid explanation for a FR changeling

wispy ridge
#

Hi, this is basically a weird thing that came up in RP, and I just wondered: Would silver dragonborn with their cold resistance have a low body temperature? Like, while penguins have a higher body temperature, they show up as cold in infrared because of their insulation

wispy ridge
#

Basically, would a very sheltered silver dragonborn think that our VERY manic Aarakokra was hallucinating because of a fever?

crude blaze
wispy ridge
#

Thanks! I will bug him!

amber lodge
#

I have a question about god-hood, the BBEG is a vampire and wants to become god of blood and desire, how would they he do that? i assume he needs fellowers but are mind controlled fellowers still considered fellowers?

white ravine
#

2 big things you need to become a god:

#

1: 100000 devoted followers
2: An unfilled portfolio (blood and desire for example would work)

grim siren
#

And a good way to make an portfolio unfilled is to kill the god that has the portfolio you want.

thick trout
#

Is there any inform on how owlin society works?

vapid atlas
unkempt merlin
#

No

#

Best you can get is the MTGwiki

grim siren
#

yeah not really I scanned the MTG wiki and found it just linking to the Bird article and from there to the bird humanoid article. Pretty much what's in the book is what you are gonna get.

unkempt merlin
#

It's cause they are also basically new to MTG as well

#

Although I think in general, at least with strixhaven, the different races aren't inherently split into different societies based on race

white ravine
unkempt merlin
#

Exactly lol

white ravine
#

Goes to show how little WOTC gave a damn about em

unkempt merlin
#

They are just another mtg race that is just thrown into a setting with no real lore about them. It's super common for mtg.

serene crater
#

it would've been cool to learn that perhaps they're an offbreed aarkocra or something of the sort just to establish lore

unkempt merlin
#

Well aarakocra don't even exist implicitly in the mtg settings, so that would be a tad odd

crude blaze
#

I’m always hesitant of “off-shoot” races

summer latch
#

Do the major factions (Lords' Alliance, Harpers, Enclave, etc) have cells and subgroups? I was thinking there were some named ones but now I'm not sure if what I was thinking of were just different mercenary groups doing work for the factions.

unkempt merlin
#

Almost certainly. Lords alliance definitely would due to the nature of the organization

inland bloom
spark haven
#

at the bare minimum, groups operating in this way need accountants, security, logistics, chronicling

#

so there's a big grab bag of factions available

#

everyone has their own opinions about what the ogranization is best at and meant for

crude blaze
#

I think it’s always pretty safe to assume that every major city might have a cell of at least a couple of the factions

magic jackal
# inland bloom Zhentarim too

Zhentarim absolutely have factions within them, I think that becomes a plot point in ||SKT|| but I'm not positive.

grim siren
#

There is a faction in Waterdeep called the Moonstars which are an offshoot of the Harpers

iron saffron
#

[Cues Sailor Moon theme song]