Combined Launch through T&D checklist notes/errors

[lavish cliff]

tested in 0.99.26 EA

BOOST:
typo "Move IV - Report" to "Mode IV - Report"

POST-TLI ACTIVITIES:
V82E should really be V83E I think (but in ReEntry it uses V82E currently, just noting it as a minor difference)
you cannot PRO from V83E and V66 N44 is not flashing, have to use V37E00E

PRE CSM SEPARATION:
maybe combine with 'CSM SEPARATION PREP'?
Right now when you hit GDC ALIGN FDAI 2 just spins and spins, until you set ATT SET to IMU, then it will align the two FDAI
Should have you turn on RUN/EVA and SPOT lights (then back off later) [I think they would actually orient things so the sunlight would illuminate the LM, that would be another option]

CSM SEPARATION:
Has you start V49E, then bring up V16N20E, then do V49E again -- seems odd
Compute Docking Attitude (R-60, P+180, Y +/-) doesn't work (R-130 is much closer) and the Y +/- is confusing (I think you just leave it as is) ((also reported in another bug))
After you enter the computed values, the Roll value is FORCED back to +18000 when it goes to 50 18, you have to start that V49 and then do another, until it finally takes your ROLL value
It doesn't tell you when to PRO into F 06-18 to start auto maneuver (should be at end of CSM TRANSPOSITION checklist which just says 'Start DAC' and could probably have a PRO there.

DOCKING:
RETRACT motor to PRIM does not lock the LM, you have to turn the DOCKING PROBE switch down to RETRACT also.

POST DOCKING:
Text is cut off at 'LM Extraction'
When should we actually apply LM PWR?
at some point should switch LV/SPS IND to GP1 also?
CRITICAL: has LOGIC and PRYOS to SAFE for SIVB/LM SEP, need those ARMED ((also reported in another bug))

[magic notch]

It is V82E and V83E in real life both did almost the same thing. If you want to be accurate for the game the checklist is wrong it is V82E

[candid slate]

Mode IV - Report means that Houston calls up to you to tell you that you're in Mode IV, then you report that you've configured the spacecraft accordingly (or are simply prepared to do such an abort if necessary)

so the text is not incorrect

"Report status" is its own separate thing and it's not a matter of a repeated word

[magic notch]

I may be wrong but I don't think V66 N44 should be flashing as flashing is an indicator for pilot input needed

[candid slate]

V16 N44 should be flashing

real computer does so

Also, for docking attitude, Roll - 60 is correct to the real checklists. If that doesn't give you the right attitude then something else is at fault. Flip 180 in pitch and then roll left 60 degrees (minus 60) should line you up with the docking target

If that's so far off in roll, either the FDAI is "lying" to you somehow and giving a false attitude, or the CSM or LM is attached to the SIVB at the wrong roll orientation.

[lavish cliff]

Yes, could fix checklist "VERBS & NOUNS" and change 83 to 82 (as I think V83 isn't implemented). Anyway, is more just a minor note and that you cannot proceed through it. V82 is also pretty different from what I can see, you start by entering vehicle selection, then event time, etc. Can cause new people to get a bit 'stuck' when they don't know all the DKSY magic yet is all.

[lavish cliff]

noted and fixed, now it's just "Move" vs "Mode"

[candid slate]

that V82 logic is actually accurate for the last revisions of the CMC and LGC software, you do enter vehicle selection and then time, but you can leave all zeroes for the time to choose "current time", meaning you can just PRO without entering data for speed's sake in most cases

[lavish cliff]

I have tested it numerous times now and R-60 doesn't work in reentry... so either checklist should change and be different from Apollo or can fix it so it's back to -60 with whatever changes that entails, I do not know WHY it is wrong, just that testing it over and over and over I have confirmed I'm not doing something wrong. Anyway, up to Petri obviously. Just trying to be a good (unofficial) QA person and list out what I find.

Also in ReEntry when you do V82 it goes directly to "16 44" (not flashing) and cannot PRO. So it isn't working the way the checklist says it should, but either checklist or V82 implementation could change, I dunno which.

[candid slate]

gotcha gotcha

Also, LM PWR is turned on relatively soon after docking, if I recall correctly

The LM is technically on low-voltage battery taps from liftoff until first docking so it's a good idea to power it from the CSM relatively soon

[lavish cliff]

I don't think current checklists have you turn LM power on at all, but I could have missed it. I have been doing the pressure eq, open the hatch, and then power the LM (assuming the umbilical has to be attached to do that).

Anyway, it was fun evening... I'm now coasting to the Moon... and later I will try to go through the LOI and LM descent checklists looking for any issues there.

[candid slate]

Just checked, it's part of the immediate post-docking procedures. "Connect LM Umbilical" is indicated by the flight plan, which points to the launch checklist, which then immediately points to the systems checklist, which says the following:

this is taken from Apollo 15's checklists

[lavish cliff]

test 7D not implemented apparently

[candid slate]

The test meter channels changed from mission to mission, check 4D?

You can see that even the official checklist had to get fixed during the mission lol

[lavish cliff]

4D worked (0 when LM power is off, and about 0.5v when powered)

[candid slate]

Okay, that's good

Then I think Reentry is just simulating a slightly earlier CSM than Apollo 15's

[neon trout]

The Earth reentry checklist also misses turning on the CM RCS pressure

[icy ether]

Hey!
I am in the works on adding an entire new TAB in the Mission Pad -> Checklists for the time line/mission checklists vs. the Apollo operations handbook procedures. I think this would be covered by that as they are quite sequential and easier to follow (and I will ofc need help getting those checklists in if anyone wants) once this feature is more ready. I have started to test this and it will be used in a few of the Apollo 13 campaign missions I am working on.

[lavish cliff]

Ok, I should have another round of notes tonight and I also have a bunch of edited checklists I can drop in here for you (mostly fairly conservative fixes and adding Run feature to some checklists where it is missing). I'll work on that this evening.

[lavish cliff]

Here are additional notes from LOI through rendezvous along with a number of modified Lunar Module checklists (you'd need to fix back the priority, name, and project of course):

LunarModule/User_EPS_BasicStaged
LunarModule/User_MPS_BasicUnstaged
LunarModule/User_MPSP41RCSBurn
LunarModule/User_MPSProgram30
LunarModule/User_PoweredDescentP63BreakingPhase
LunarModule/User_PoweredDescentP68
LunarModule/User_StagingDPSPropTankVent

SPS burns go pretty well I think, no notes. I like DOI Helper and SPS BURN/LOI helper but I didn't test them.

LM UNDOCKING FROM CSM:
V37E 47E goes to blanks and KEY REL blinking (Run checklist suggests I should see V16 N83 and then KEY REL, I think it is missing a PRO, at least for how it seems to work in ReEntry )
I think it also has you V37E00E too soon in the text of the checklist (in step 17 immediately after you run it)
Checklist has some CM separation steps but not all (maybe I'm missing a checklist)
Says to hit PRO when separated (on V77) but actually need to hit ENTER I think (where you have entered V77 but not hit ENTER yet)

P63 - BRAKING PHASE
Be nice to have some time hints in the RUN mode about when to do critical things (I added in my sample checklist)
has you set ROLL and PITCH to PULSE, I've had issues with that sometimes (I think, hard to be sure) but it worked this time -- just a sanity check note
RUN mode also doesn't have MODE SEL to LDG RADAR and entering V57E (added in sample checklist)
LM descent stage has WAY more fuel/oxid than indicated on the cue card (25% more at 7 minutes maybe) (as with all notes if this is expected can just ignore me 🙂
See attached User_PoweredDescentP63BreakingPhase

P64/P65
be nice to have more textual cues in RUN mode (altitude cues, meaning of DSKY codes -- having both run up and the checklist is a lot of screen space, at least for me)

(more)

P68 - LANDING CONFIRMATION
PRO alone doesn't work to end P68, have to follow with V37E00E worked (but only after a PRO), could add a RUN version
See attached User_PoweredDescentP68

ECS Basic (Staged)
Just to check if this is correct but leaves, CABIN REPRESS to CLOSE, CABIN GAS RETURN to EGRESS, SUIT GAS DIVERTER to PULL - EGRESS

LGC POWER-UP/DOWN
if you power down the LGC and then back online it seems like NO ATT light will never go out. Don't know if a full LM power off/on would fix it.

P12
why use DES ENG CMD OVRD on ascent? I don't see it in P12 checklist FlightCrewGandNDictionary.pdf but maybe some reason

P30 & P41
Run versions attached
Switching into ATT HOLD for the burn seemed to freak out the LM, it didn't hold my current attitude for sure. I'll have to try several times to see if that always happens or not.

P20 RENDEZVOUS NAVIGATION
Not very well tested, I don't tend to use P20 as implemented in ReEntry because I don't want to point "at" the CSM

P79 - FINAL RENDEZVOUS PROGRAM
Seems generally ok (not sure the data is accruate, closure rate didn't seem to be)
says to terminate PRO -- doesn't work. I tend to use V34E V37E00E when nothing else works click PRO/KEY REL/RSET/CLR a whole bunch also
Needs more in-game/checklist documentation I think (why do I enter my desired RPY, it seems to ignore it?) Is that just initial RPY or something?
Does it requires the EMS VHF RNG to be on? (just asking, I do like to use that)

Was there a "final power down" procedure they used before bidding the LM farewell?
I generally just pull the ENG ARM cb and Master Alarm cb and power off the batteries
And I would suspect this would use the CSM/LM: 1-Final and SEP-2 switches for that final jettison

[candid slate]

Re: P12, DES CMD OVERRIDE is unnecessary and should be off. After all, you're using the ascent engine anyway, this is lunar liftoff.
For P20, the typical use is to point at the CSM so that the RR can be locked-on easily by simply aiming it at 0, 0 and then slewing it around in a search pattern until the signal reaches its maximum. The maneuver can be bypassed but in all the rendezvous maneuvers I've done, you typically want to stay boresighted through nearly the whole rendezvous. However, this may not be desirable for Reentry if RCS burns aren't as robust, in reality you'd bypass the maneuver to burn attitude and stay boresighted, thrusting with RCS in each axis instead of pointing the LM along the burn direction and thrusting in a single axis.

[lavish cliff]

Interesting, I assumed P20 used the RR to point at the CSM... is it using some internal idea of the state vectors of each spacecraft to point itself? But I could totally see using P20 for that purpose if so.

I think the problem with rendezvous in ReEntry is that it is more or less a blind Hohmann transfer burn at the end and 3/4 of the time I'll end up in front of the CSM, which means I'm flying past it and P20 is pitching me like crazy and losing RR tracking, rendering my TPF burn useless... I can try it switching to ATT HOLD but I tried that last time and it started rotating like crazy for some reason (not even running P20). This was where my TPF put me last time (I probably crashed through it)... it should probably target a few hundred feet behind the CSM until the more complex rendezvous modes are supported.

[candid slate]

Yes, it uses the state vector to try and point at the CSM. The predicted state vector of the CSM at insertion is preloaded from mission control, so the LGC has a pretty decent idea of where it is

Then the RR is used to refine the state vector through automatic marks

[lavish cliff]

Ah, nice

[neon trout]

doesn't the RVDZ RR also have a sort of rudimentary uplink?

[lavish cliff]

Well TEI is done... now to do a midcourse correction (SPS burns seem to be pretty solid)... then the reentry.

[candid slate]

Not sure what you mean

[neon trout]

standby

I just did the radar tutorial and it says it can provide the LM with tracking data

sorry I was going off topic

[candid slate]

That has nothing to do with an uplink, though, it just means that the RR can be used to update the state vector to give it a more precise idea

[neon trout]

yeah I must've misinterpreted

[candid slate]

No worries, it's a complex thing

Reading this post more, yeah the rendezvous definitely needs to be made WAY more reliable, at any rate. In that regard I think it might be advisable to try and get closer to an Apollo 14+ style "direct rendezvous" which is faster than the coelliptic sequence used on earlier missions, and may actually be easier for the astronauts in terms of workload

[lavish cliff]

The rendezvous in ReEntry is like in Gemini... a simple circularization burn at post-ascent Ap, then raise Ap to CSM orbit (TPI) so you'll be there at the right time, then circularize at Ap (TPF or simply burn prograde to circularize). If you do them very carefully it will put you right on top of the CSM at the end (as shown in my screenshot). There is no real tracking and if you aren't aligned progadethe burn is difficult.

[lavish cliff]

LUNAR RETURN VEHICLE PREP:
Has old reference to "request entry pad" that doesn't exist now
says "Plan a deorbit burn with entry angle of 2 deg".. .should be 6.5 deg.
Would it be possible for the ATMOSPHERIC ENTRY data to include mission time of EI? Not a big deal
I think it should start V37E61E earlier and do the CM/SM sep at the +00041 code shouldn't it? THen it will also help to orient to SM sep attitude if done correctly.
Should it set ORDEAL or ORB RATE/EARTH? Seemed off without it.
Has you set CMC MODE to FREE way too many times (and I think it should leave it AUTO until 0.05g, advanced players will know they can turn it off to fly the craft themselves).
Should ROT CONTR PWR: DIRECT be set to MNA/MNB? Mine was still left OFF.
The EMS line can be hard to see at times... see SS (might be my low graphics settings
my G-force meter will often be broken (2nd SS)

EARTH LANDING:
At the very end has you set ELS AUTO: ON and ELS LOGIC: ON, but it should already be on? if intentional no worries

And finally, as reported elsewhere, sometimes the apex cover, drogue, and chutes just will not deploy... I even have a custom checklist and the same save file will work sometimes following that very limited checklist and sometimes it will crash. That's a game bug and I haven't found any way around it yet (random failures are OFF for me).

I did not have issue with CM pressurization during LUNAR RETURN.

[magic notch]

First SS might be due to anti-aliasing. I have not had any problems with seeing it although it may be harder if you are on lower settings. I have never had any issues with the g meter

[lavish cliff]

Could be but it’s plain as day in 2nd screenshot. Hope Petri would have some thought on the G-meter but can see it’s showing near 0 even when the EMS is showing near 8-9G

Anyway, that’s the end of my reporting on this topic for now. And @icy ether , I’d love to help test new checklists/mission profiles.

[icy ether]

In the next patch I will roll out a bit more logging on the ELS and why it prevents the chutes. The main thing it checks are the ELS Logic (+ELS Auto if you wont trigger them yourself), that the ELS cbs are closed and that the SECS LOGIC/PYRO is armed

Will check notes above, thanks!