#800GB Bandwidth: Bandwidth Usage Compensation Concerns - Salad SGS Service

107 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

elfin tendon
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well, salad just keeps deleting my message.

slow pollen
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looks like it's getting automodded because chatgpt likes using too many emojis

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remove the emojis and it should send

elfin tendon
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Major Bandwidth Issue with Salad SGS

Just hit 800GB of bandwidth usage in 24 hours through SGS and getting paid basically nothing for it. This is a problem.

416.4GB in
414.5GB out

The Numbers:
• 800GB residential traffic = $0 compensation
• Getting $0.02/hr jobs that eat hundreds of GB
• Commercial proxy services charge big money for this much clean traffic

Main Issues:

  1. High bandwidth jobs paying pennies while blocking better opportunities
  2. System seems designed for people to exploit cheap bandwidth
  3. Other platforms I use pay WAY better for the same resources
  4. Long-running containers using massive bandwidth but minimal CPU/RAM

Why I'm tracking this:
I monitor my entire network to prevent abuse/spam. Happy to run SGS but doing it at my own risk.

💭 Bottom line:
If I paid for 800GB of residential proxy traffic on a clean static IP, it'd cost a fortune. But Salad gets it for free while I get pocket change?

The compensation model needs fixing. Right now it feels like clients can spin up minimal containers and drain bandwidth without paying fair rates.

What do you guys think? Anyone else seeing this?

slow pollen
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Could you send a screenshot of the earning history graph?

elfin tendon
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As you can see $0.02-$0.05/hr

slow pollen
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It looks like it's working?

elfin tendon
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If by " working " you mean.. scamming yeah. it's " working "

slow pollen
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Could you send a screenshot of Glasswire's past 24h graph for sgs-client's usage?

elfin tendon
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800GB traffic for that little revenue is horrible.

elfin tendon
elfin tendon
slow pollen
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The actual graph

elfin tendon
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You know it's glasswire and you know I can filter by processes. I shared the sgs process.

elfin tendon
# slow pollen The actual graph

Why do you wanna see all the other processes on my machine. It's not relevant to salad in anyway, so Im not sure why you want that.

slow pollen
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This graph

image.png
slow pollen
elfin tendon
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Doesn't really match up with the earnings because at the highest point of my earnings I had a GPU container.

slow pollen
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Looks like it lines up perfectly with your earnings, what's the issue?

elfin tendon
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Lol are you okay?

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It does not match up with my earnings at all.

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If you look at the start of the graph and the start of the earnings. It does not match up at all.

slow pollen
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The ups and downs match up, what's the issue?

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You're being paid for the bandwidth shared

elfin tendon
# slow pollen The ups and downs match up, what's the issue?

Main Issues:
High bandwidth jobs paying pennies while blocking better opportunities
System seems designed for people to exploit cheap bandwidth
Other platforms I use pay WAY better for the same resources
Long-running containers using massive bandwidth but minimal CPU/RAM

Like I said in my post.

slow pollen
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If you don't like earning over $1 for doing nothing, I'll happily take that bandwidth for you :)

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The pay per GB is indeed probably lower than other platforms, but it makes up for it by having a lot of bandwidth throughput

elfin tendon
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How close minded can you be " oh $1 for doing nothing " okay bro..

Let me educate you for a moment... Electric bills from the power consumption of the machine. Internet bill for the port speed and bandwidth I am allowing salad to take advantage of. Things need to be paid and they don't come close to a single dollar.

The fact is you can pay a proxy service like iproyal for example $2.00 for a single static residential proxy for 24 hours. that's $2 a day. for ultimited traffic. Yet I've not seen that dollar you was talking about in bandwidth... $2 over 30 days that's $60... which im sorry salad will never ever pay their chefs for bandwidth sharing alone. Not even close.

so the fact of oh $1 for doing nothing is completely irrelevant. In the grand scheme of things, running a GPU container instead of all these small network containers is much more profitable than this which is part of the problem and which is what my original post was saying. Which you as a staff member has just completely looked over and disregarded.

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Yet you are now typing without actually reading the full post.

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brilliant

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I am not relying on salad to pay my bills. I am just saying it takes a lot more than just doing nothing to keep salad running. Yes its passive income while Im actively paying for services such as my internet bill but then at what point does that mean I am being generous to salad by giving it this lvl of access for what not even $1 for 800GB residential traffic?

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It loads up multiple small containers that use a ton of bandwidth instead of my GPU which keep in mind an RTX 3080 and 32GB ram is apparently jobs salad is actively running so I should be getting those jobs. But I can't because there isn't enough resources or I have already been giving multiple small containers that use a ton of bandwidth and not actively using my GPU for GPU containers.

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The problem here is that my machine is able to run more profitable containers. Yet salad chooses to load my machine up with these bad containers that use a ton of bandwidth without properly sharing the potential profits from the resources being used. Not only that but salad charges a platform fee and hides it into all of their store offerings. So if i make $5 I gotta pay salad $6 to get that $5 paypal payment.

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Salad eats into every part of potential profit without actually giving the chefs the true value of what they are allowing salad to use and it's gross.

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So let me point out again what the concern is that I am having...

  • High bandwidth jobs paying pennies while blocking better opportunities
  • System seems designed for people to exploit cheap bandwidth
  • Other platforms I use pay WAY better for the same resources
  • Long-running containers using massive bandwidth but minimal CPU/RAM
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Salad does not respect network containers at all and treats them as a small vps that users pay basically nothing for $0.02/hr but they absolutely rinse the bandwidth on those small containers and exploit the residential traffic nature of salad's infrastructure.

slow pollen
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Your router will be running anyways, so you can't include that in your electricity costs.
If you're already running your PC for containers anyways, then the additional load of running bandwidth sharing will be insignificant.
You live in the UK so you have no data cap.

You're welcome to use some other service that has zero restrictions on the type of content that they let anyone stream through your connection. Salad has standards for their customers, and for the most part they only stream video content. Other services are well known for being compliant in letting illegal and otherwise malicious traffic go through their connections, by their shady clients.

I think what you're describing with containers using a lot of bandwidth is just GPU Containers downloading the data, like AI models, needed for the jobs. If a lot of them are ending very soon after starting, that's again another issue that you should contact #official-support to look into.

If you're concerned about containers that pay very little, that is again a different issue, and the solution is to disable CPU usage which will stop CPU-only containers from running.

The storefront markups do kinda suck, but if Salad didn't have them, they wouldn't be able to exist as a company; wouldn't be able to pay their employees; pay for advertising to customers and users.

Let me know if there's anything I missed.

elfin tendon
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@slow pollen Your router will be running anyways, so you can't include that in your electricity costs.

No, this is where you are wrong. Anything that contributes towards the power bill will be included in costs / outgoings. Your router requires power, therefore is included within the power bill.

Salad will be paying for the privilege to take advantage of having the access to that bandwidth and usage at any time. Since as you said the machine is already running. Meaning I am having to pay that overhead.

Salad isn't the best when it comes to detections and abuse prevention hence why I am monitoring it myself as much as I can without breaking tos. But sure, you're the one comparing salad to illegal / shady services not me. So that speaks volumes if a staff member instantly thinks of comparing to two together, of what you believe salad does etc.

The store markups aren't the only thing that keeps salad afloat as they are a multi million dollar company, their public reports say so. The problem here is salad eats into profit every chance they get and take away from the chefs whenever they can and over the last few years I haven't seen salad actually give back to the people / chefs who actually made them what they are today. But again, thats a different story.

CPU workloads and GPU workloads... If I disable one then my machine is discouraged from the network and I will get no jobs or if I do I'll get the bad jobs that do not profit as much. Which I have already explained up in in this thread.

GPU containers that pay well are welcome to use that bandwidth without any additional charges as the average hourly rate for my machine that salad has set is something I am happy with and can continue to operate at going forward. However there is places where I believe the system is being abused which I have also pointed out above in this thread. So I wanted to shine some light on it without making it a big thing and causing problems in general. Hence why I made this thread.

Either way there is many ways salad is letting its users down and this is the main ones that impact me personally hence why I am putting in the time and effort to discuss it.

slow pollen
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The person operating the PC requires food and water so I guess that has to be included in the costs too! No, that's not how it works. The router will be running regardless of if you were running bandwidth sharing, so it cannot be factored into your electricity cost calculations. That's just how it is.

Assuming the PC will be running anyways: Bandwidth Sharing uses an insignificant amount of electricity to run, it's only fetching data from the internet and uploading that straight to the SGS gateway. So Bandwidth Sharing has effectively no electricity cost, assuming the PC is already running for other reasons.
If the PC is not already running for other reasons, and is only running Bandwidth sharing, then it is fair to factor in that PC's electricity cost.

I compared Salad's bandwidth sharing to other services because you brought them up -_-
It's very well known that almost every other bandwidth sharing service allows shady customers with no KYC to have free reign to their users' network connections to conduct any illegal or malicious activities. Salad, on the other hand, vets all of their SGS customers to ensure they're not using our network traffic for shady things.

They have some millions of dollars in venture capital funding. That is not their profits or revenue.
Your point of Salad not 'giving back to the people' is weird.. if you're expecting free handouts for nothing in return, that's not how the world works.
They have an app which people use to earn money when they otherwise wouldn't have been able to. That's what they're providing. Their application that safely connects customers to our unused hardware. Their staff that outreach to potential new customers. Their developers that work on the app and cloud applications. And they have their cut/margins in place to pay those people.

You are able to disable CPU usage just fine. I have been running Salad on two PCs with CPU disabled and I've been getting GPU Containers just fine. The issue with the Chopping Power not showing Star Chef when CPU usage is disabled is just a visual bug. You will still have the Star Chef status.

elfin tendon
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"Your router will be running anyways, so you can't include that in your electricity costs."

Especially since salad pays pennies as it is. It could be 2-3 days of running salad to even break even to keep your router on 😂 thats how much of a joke salad earnings are.

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Your point of Salad not 'giving back to the people' is weird

so don't expect us chefs to give salad free handouts for having access to our machines and network resources. just because we have it turned on doesn't mean salad can access it for free. they gotta pay for it fairly.

slow pollen
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They didn't access it for free. You got paid over $1 a day.

elfin tendon
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for a gpu that consumes 300W @ £0.23 KWH

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Either way your views are really biased because you're a staff member and you've no lifed in this discord for months. As per your discord history in this server.

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So I realised I am wasting my time here.

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It's like talking to a brick wall.

slow pollen
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Likewise

elfin tendon
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So lets just agree to disagree and wait for others opinions on the OPs (my) original points. As you clearly cannot answer them properly.

slow pollen
elfin tendon
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Bandwidth sharing on a machine that needs to run... that uses electricity...

slow pollen
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In that case, it'll be the idle power draw of the PC that you use, not the power draw while it's actively running a GPU container.

elfin tendon
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total usage of the machine 500W consistantly... @ £0.23/kwh... soo lets say $0.115/hr if the average fee of salad GPU containers pay that on average... Average payout per hour $0.08-$0.12 then I can be okay with operating...

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The small containers $0.02/hr is not the one.

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If you want bandwidth containers it should be separate and paid properly. salad's network is currently exploitable with this. As I have pointed out above.

slow pollen
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Again, you cannot use the power draw while running a GPU container 😩

elfin tendon
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Okay, you turn on the PC... the HDMI cables are plugged into the GPU. The GPU is powered and is running. drawing power from the chef's home. It is using power as soon as you turn the machine on. so yes you can.

slow pollen
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You can factor in the power draw while running a GPU container if you are calculating the profitability of running GPU containers.
You cannot factor in the power draw while running a GPU container if you are calculating the profitability of running Bandwidth Sharing.
They are two entirely different things. Their pay rates are entirely separated. Their power draws are entirely separate.

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For calculating the profitability while running Bandwidth Sharing, you can either:

  • Use the power draw while the PC is at idle, if a PC is running solely because of bandwidth sharing.
  • There is no power draw, as the PC is already running because of something else, like GPU containers.
    Again, Bandwidth Sharing draws effectively no power by itself, as it's just acting as a network traffic proxy. So these are the only two options.
tame bloom
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i make over $100 amonth from bw sharing

tawdry yarrow
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800GB bw , 24h is real crap. And to say "it's working" is being ignorant. Also router can take 2-3x more power if it's transferring 250Mbit/s constantly vs just few bits and pieces. It's definitely unrealistic and just taking advantage of someone's good internet connection. I have seen someone get paid around 0.8 or so for 50GB daily traffic. Also 1$ for "doing nothing" is not nothing - you have to keep it on, have capable hw, worry if ISP will call you one day and say something etc.

Fun fact: Someone saying that idle is idle should know that it could be heckava difference even if you click on that salad tray icon. For some reason salat thought it's a good idea to put animated icon there. So if you just open this tray , it will increase around 5w of power consumption on otherwise 45w idle pc, because gpu and cpu is not idle anymore. So having this window open for 10 machines wastes one additional idle machine. You can run whole one day of 3060 container on that wasted energy for every month.

All that said - it would be advisable to use like 10w minipc or laptop to keep things as efficient as possible if it's solely bw sharing machine so that it would not be factor in power consumption.

And for pc being idle - this comes to equation for bw and gpu loads - the time the machine sits idle also counts towards net income for 24h. The income per 24h is just not the time salad uses the pc - the pc is always ready to offer jobs and the time it does not get a job will be deducted from net income of 24h .
People who only see how macdonalds burger comes from fridge and goes on frying pan and then burger is made don't understand that it also needs infrastructure around it to function. That is why 20cent burger costs you 5$. But now you are explaining that chefs should get paid 0.2$ because kitchen is already there for free. It's not.

long ocean
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don't want to gasslight, but there is also around a 20-10% fee for most items on the store.

elfin tendon
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Yeah, it's crazy.

shut dome
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how can i delete the container jobs from my pc they take alot of my storage

shut dome
keen fiber
keen fiber
shut dome
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its bc i let my pc run when i was sleeping no earning and it took 50GB for nothing

keen fiber
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ive had a cpu container take like 30gb of my storage just to last literally a few seconds lol

shut dome
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yeah and that is bullcrap they should invent like a new update that auto deletes them when not used

shut dome
keen fiber
shut dome
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sorry i am on windows 10

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okay found it

elfin tendon
shut dome
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only 30gb? thats weird knowing i had 151 before i went to sleep

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and now only 105

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gb of free space

elfin tendon
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There is no real way to limit the speed that salad has access too so it could literally saturate your entire port speed and it'll affect the performance of whatever it is u have on the network.

elfin tendon
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yeah when salad ramps up on a cpu container and they start utilising bandwidth there is no performance checks or safety there it just saturates the entire port speed. Latency over the entire connection skyrockets because they're just slamming the connection to 100%

lunar parrot
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am i missing something. If the salad sucks for you then go use another service?

keen fiber
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y'all's cpu container downloads saturate your internet speeds?

elfin tendon
# lunar parrot am i missing something. If the salad sucks for you then go use another service?

You are missing something. Salad works well and does what it needs too but It's from a performance stand point. It can be drastically improved. If you are happy of being taken advantage of then sit back and do nothing or big up salad's current payment system. As 800GB of residential traffic for pennies is ridiculous as well as from a performance stand point if it saturates the entire port speed to the point of increased latency over the entire network connection then salad it using too much and needs to be slightly reduced to help improve overall performance of the network. So salad can continue operating doing what it needs to do while using 95% of the port speed instead of constantly pushing for 101% of what the chef has available.

lunar parrot
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i run 6 machines and dont have internet issues at all. all have jobs currently. gpu containers. things work well for me. i just dont see why your so belligerent on the mods for something you have no control over. like i said go use another service that suits your needs better.

slow pollen
# elfin tendon You are missing something. Salad works well and does what it needs too but It's ...

800gb of traffic for pounds*
Which is roughly 74mbps averaged out across the whole day. I don't think you've said what internet speed your ISP gives you, but unless if it's under 100-150mbps symmetrical, I don't see that being a major issue.
Plus, routers should fairly 'split up' the available internet speed to all its connected devices, not letting one device hog it all.
If the issue is that your router can't handle routing that little amount of traffic, I would upgrade it as it's likely very old.

But I agree that it'd be a nice feature to be able to limit the amount of bandwidth that bandwidth sharing can use.

ionic hedge
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99% gpu running salad is the same power consumption as not running salad? Did the dev just gas light you? Wooooow

slow pollen
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what? you totally misread and misunderstood what i said

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I'm on about the power consumption of running bandwidth sharing, which is so minimal that there's effectively no increase over what your PC would otherwise be doing, be it idle or running a GPU container.

elfin tendon
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It's hard to have a conversation with people who don't see the bigger picture.

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They default to oh if u dont like it use something else.

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Instead of trying to resolve anything.

short lynx
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You are welcome to try and make your own.

Sure it would be nice if they paid more to their users, but you can always choose to use it or not.

Salad is a for-profit business not a charity (plus they have to pay employees for support, development and they have other backend costs etc.)

elfin tendon
short lynx
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They do to the best of their ability. If it isn’t profitable for you, you don’t have to use it.

arctic hawk
elfin tendon
elfin tendon
arctic hawk
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Salad is pocketing a lot of the money instead of giving back to the chefs.
You don't know the numbers. Since they vet their customers better than other platforms that's worth something too.

At 1TB a day I make up a good chunk of the price of my monthly fiber subscription. Salad makes profit. I make profit. Win-win.

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FWIW if I had at least one complaint against SGS is that some jobs seems to simply scrape the internet with 60-100K queries per day and takes no bandwidth at all so next no payment. So that's a bit abusive. Those should be priced per request.

short lynx
# elfin tendon 😂 You don't understand the technicalities of what I am trying to explain to you...

It seems you don’t fully understand all that it takes to make, develop (improve), keep online and also get customers for something like this… All of that takes money, and that is before actually making a profit.

As I said before, sure it would be nice if they paid more, but there is also no such thing as “free” money… I am just glad that they do pay something, which for many it seems to even be worth while.

elfin tendon
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Since making this thread, salad has been running 24/7... yet i still dont have star chef status... I lost it when upgrading from windows 10 to windows 11.

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So I'm still getting a lot of shit jobs