miside-lore-discussions

[haughty linden]

well not really a bad dream but it seems like it (since Player one was kicked from game)

[fresh sun]

does this fall under boosty stuff? if yes i think we should move this to dms , since while i also mind spoilers idm vague confirmations but some people don't want for those to be disclosed either

[haughty linden]

no this is about the ending we have right now.....

[fresh sun]

isn't that spoilers though?

technically?

[haughty linden]

no

[fresh sun]

so i guess does the other ending path pick up after the escape ending/does the mc get memories from the escape ending in any way?

[haughty linden]

bruh we don't know xD

[fresh sun]

i mean this is some pretty specific wording so sorry for misdunderstanding i guess? I thought for us to do the other ending we needed to start from scratch but this kinda implies that the player woke up from the escape ending , was this speculation i guess?

[haughty linden]

I didn't mean waking up literally but it was sudden after being booted from the game by Crazy mita

[fresh sun]

ahhhh i see alright

you did say "bad dream" to be fair

[haughty linden]

to be fair what he went through in game, and then suddenly being back at his home might as well be one lol

[fresh sun]

well not fully since he had the app installed after he woke up, but i get what you are saying, i misunderstood a bit because of your wording 😅

[haughty linden]

yeah, though it's not uncommon to have bad dreams of a game you play lol

[vivid pawn]

https://tenor.com/view/leysritt-liz-prisma-illya-fate-kaleid-gif-22746905

[civic hill]

yayyy something finally

[acoustic spruce]

all i see is the players trapped in cartridges

[haughty linden]

they are trapped in the Lore's headcannon

which is far worse

[acoustic spruce]

where was it confirmed mita just made a copy to the player tho

[finite pier]

As much as we already know all this, still sounds complex and dark.

[haughty linden]

eh

sounds more like a cope for crazy mita if anything

[tired phoenix]

it’s so over

[elfin garden]

so basically it's a portable copy

[pure ledge]

Literally SOMA

[pure ledge]

@grave schooner

[pure ledge]

Сукааа

Она же мучается, за что

[grave schooner]

what

[grand bay]

🛒

[grave schooner]

Why

[fresh sun]

xD

[vestal depot]

Good lord Soma and Miside have this in common. Nice

[haughty linden]

yeah

[zealous basalt]

whens the update coming

[vivid pawn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1127663022983368774/1472491797904101386/ezgif-395a166e2e34663d.gif

тут кд на сообщения даже для модераторов поставили

[pure ledge]

Для всех

[grave lava]

Uhm

[fresh sun]

yeah

[fresh sun]

https://tenor.com/view/its-out-when-its-ready-gif-6182608754390432852

[grave lava]

Can we get peaceful mode before GTA 6 is released?

[fresh sun]

Idk

[paper terrace]

[spring harbor]

Before the PC release. That is if you've prayed to Great Mita enough.

[finite pier]

GTA 6 is trash and so as it's devs. Peaceful mode comes when it comes. We only deserve it if we are willing to be patient.

[fresh sun]

We need to be patient, idk about gta 6's quality but Aihasato is an indie team ,if you want to know outright progress go to their boosty page

[bright warren]

Lore.

[finite pier]

Boosty page? There is a progress-o-meter counter? Something like that exist?

[fresh sun]

here ya go https://boosty.to/aihasto/media/all

[finite pier]

Awesome!

🤔

[stray bridge]

They didn’t finish😭

[finite pier]

That's just one thing, but this is basically a puzzle to solve for me. In what way of progress they have with it atm.

[stray bridge]

K

[finite pier]

There's 20 signals for 4 categories

And then there's the Suits which might be false if we include the Halloween, Santa and Schoolgirl costumes for this progress.

Are those excluded here?

[grave lava]

I think they will finish it in the middle or end of the year.

[finite pier]

According to my political state of life, I'm not sure I'm gonna live that long.

[fresh sun]

yeah pretty sure

(they did say they would add new outfits , i think this is what the "suits" category represents)

[finite pier]

In this case, then Mita is about to get a more versatile wardrobe with not just a basement, but also new clothes. 🤣

[fresh sun]

maybe xD

[haughty linden]

Fun fact: Crazy mita is named "Mad mita" in the Russian translation.

she is also named "Madness Mita" in the Hungarian translation

[finite pier]

Are you talking about "Téboly Mita" ? Yes. I'm from Hungary and I seen a fellow Hungarian playing through MiSide with this name for Crazy Mita.

[haughty linden]

yeah

[grave schooner]

[covert storm]

"Jancsifiú"-e az akiről beszélsz vagy valaki más?

[fresh sun]

"Mad" Mita isn't that far off tbh if we take another of its definittions (not the main one about anger)

[grave lava]

Who's gonna win, guys?

[fresh sun]

Depends on the amount of control Monika has, since the confrontation is "physical" in most internet character battles and not a battle of hacking (hence Crazy Mita can't delete Monika though Monika also can't alter her personality) with lesser control crazy Mita has the upper hand in terms of "physicality" but that's nothing to a Monika with high control that can just delete everything

It heavily depends on the context of the fight ngl, Monika at the end of the day is just a school girl after all

[grave lava]

Monika wins in the Feats, Hax, Power category.

Maybe C.Mita in BIQ, IQ, speed? (bc she's the faulty one)

[fresh sun]

Ah death battle terms, but yeah battle iq and speed goes to crazy Mita while hax and power goes for Monika. IQ and feats is more debatable

[grave lava]

Please make your arguments, I will respond.

[fresh sun]

If Monika has access to the complete code of Miside (aka being an admin for the core) she wins easily , or if she has less but still major control of crazy and her close enviroment she easily wins but after we drop the control, crazy Mita has a fair chance to win and even starts winning easily the less manipulation Monika can do

After all crazy has control over kind Mita's house among other things, even if those powers pale in comparison to a full control Monika she has some tools up her sleeves apart from brute strength

[grave lava]

Monika never physically fought from the start.

Monika's strategy wasn't to pursue or attack directly—she attacked from a higher level. As long as she had a fraction of the system's access, she didn't need to defeat Crazy Mita on the same battlefield.

Full access? Delete the file. Done.

Limited access to the environment? Monika didn't need to lock the door. She simply locked Crazy Mita's parameters within the environment itself. She could slow down time, repeat the same loop, or trap Crazy Mita in a space with no escape—much like Crazy did to players in MiSide, but on a meta scale.

Crazy Mita's strengths were speed and aggression. But speed meant nothing if her opponent could edit the rules of the game.

Monika didn't need to be a full-fledged admin. She just needed enough access to ensure Crazy Mita could never touch her.

[fresh sun]

You do know that limited access means she can't access any parameters of crazy Mita right? Also controlling time is more of her game being a vn than an actual ability she has. With a medium level of access she can still easily win for sure but i think you are underestimation crazy Mita for more limited control from Monika

Again Monika is average in A LOT of physical aspects , if the enviroment isn't digital or she has low control/access she gets stomped by most characters

How can Monika trap crazy if she doesn't have permission to affect the enviroment in such a way? Limited access means Monika can manipulate only certain things

[true owl]

Let me ask you a question: you take Monika's peak when she doesn't have a physical body?

[fresh sun]

Elaborate a bit

[true owl]

Open the chapter with Monika's conversation, then after her file is deleted, that is, she is deleted on a conceptual level, she remains alive but does not have a physical shell as such and for this we get Abstraction is intangibility. @fresh sun

[fresh sun]

No we aren't concedering Monika who has no body when gaging Monika vs crazy Mita since the context gets more iffy

[true owl]

So you're taking it in a physical shell? Is that how I understand it?

[true owl]

And by the way, why isn't Monika able to influence those outside the game? She managed to register on Twitter, by the way.

[fresh sun]

She has her high school girl body, if it gets damaged it affects her

[true owl]

I'd also like to clarify: where do you place the battle? In the Misidе or DDLC universe?

[true owl]

What exactly will change? If conceptual attacks didn't deal a certain amount of damage, what kind of physical attack are we talking about?

Neither Monika nor Mita showed any statistics for durability or speed.

[fresh sun]

I would like to give it a neutral ground but since people will keep arguing "she has total control over any system she is familiar or has no restrictions" let's say the Miside house player 1 first meets crazy Mita within

[true owl]

Well, there is a context for the fact that she is capable of influencing other universes.

[fresh sun]

Crazy has good enough durability and spped to chase someone with a chainsaw and also being a dummy hence being less restricted compared to a human

[true owl]

And you didn't answer me how the damage will go through Monika.

[true owl]

Human, cool, what's next?

[fresh sun]

Ok hold on are you arguing that because she has access to twitter she can never be damaged?

[true owl]

I stated above that it can influence files and other universes on a conceptual level.

And where did I mention that Twitter provides protection from damage? I said she didn't care about the conceptual attack.

[cold fractal]

bro better use creepy mita. i will be a pretty even fight against Monika xd

[true owl]

Wow mita runs at human speed towards Monika

[fresh sun]

I am using crazy because ahe is smarter hinestly, if creepy hd her powers but also wasn't an old version you would be right

[fresh sun]

Again Monika has her human vessel we aren't arguing over a pure digital battlefield

[true owl]

Remind me what the crazy one's special abilities are? I'd also like to see her power level across the universe.

[fresh sun]

The fight happens within the world of Miside because people would get too annoying in other places

[true owl]

So what's next? Where was the damage done to her when the conceptual attacks were literally going nowhere?

You haven't shown me any speed other than human speed, which could very well be in Monika's database.

[fresh sun]

Ok i m not going to messure the death battle strats , not that it isn't a worthwhile endevor but with how these conversations usually go,it's a waste of time

Monika wins there

[true owl]

Good luck, I hope next time you can prove it, if you can, of course.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/853323180063457280/1407350321960714372/white-monster-wmster.gif

[fresh sun]

Prove what? That a fictional character is better than another one?

[true owl]

For some it's like that, for me it's entertainment.

On weekends I come and relax.

[fresh sun]

If it's entairtainment why incist on specific terminology, why are you asking stats from me?

[true owl]

At the very least, we want to find out at what speed our Mita can do at least a speedblitz.

And it seems like you don't want to argue, which means you could have ignored my message.

[fresh sun]

I talked about the situation in a more broad sense, since there's no confirmed stats for either Monika or Crazy Mita over iq,biq,endurance,speed,durability Only things that we know is that crazy is a glitched dummy and Monika has console access. Some stuff can be translated to feats and hacks/power but at the end of the day if we only care about eho wins: Monika if she has complete access to the enviroment and especially crazy Mita and Crazy Mita wins if she barely has access

(All situations with Monika having her school girl body)

[true owl]

Funny analysis

[fresh sun]

More interesting is a bit debatable and crazy HAS abilities

[cold fractal]

nah i would win!

[fresh sun]

Lol

[finite pier]

Jancsifiúról egyértelműen. VRJanitól. Köszi hogy felfedted magad. Azt hittem itt egy lélek se magyar.

[true owl]

Which ones? Will you tell me?

[fresh sun]

I am on phone rn so i don't have direct links rn but there are a lot of qnas explaining somewhat what she can do and you also see some stuff within Miside

[true owl]

If you like to play on the condition that Monika is not in an abstract state and also she does not have full access, then of course she will lose in turn, but without the conditions, Monika kills without problems

[true owl]

Okay, then write to me and show me. I'm interested in what's in there as a misidе fan (I did the analysis myself).

[fresh sun]

talking about full powered Monika is boring because she literally wins over ANY fictional character, it's like saying "who would win an irl computer science office worker or goku" Goku loses bro can just ctrl alt delete all of his instances within his machine

[true owl]

Okay, okay, got it.

[cold fractal]

problem solved

[true owl]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1249006521023598673/1480435131226525907/twitter_2030409074563752206.gif

[true owl]

And so the peak decision

[fresh sun]

Oh hey this gif, it's always nice to see ngl

[serene token]

Any idea what this means? It's on Mita's desk in the outdated version (1.5) right after the Player is brought into the game

[heavy onyx]

It's also in 1.9

[serene token]

Is it in just any version? (will check later can't right now)
1.9 is Kind Mita's version and 1.5 is Short-haired Mita's version, so idk why they'd both have this if this isn't in every version

[heavy onyx]

I don't remember exactly, but I think Mila has it, although it's not certain, or it only appears in versions 1.5 and 1.9... I don't remember in general, unfortunately :(

[serene token]

I'll check later, I can let you know if you want

[serene token]

Mila has it as well, Cappie too but Cappie's is tidied (surprisingly??), Ugly Mita has it too

Sleepy Mita too

And Ghost Mita

None of the other Mitas have it

What could it mean though?

[fresh sun]

oh lol the new server profile gif is pretty funny

oh also ||Peaceful mode was canceled it will now become violent mode where we do an undertale obliteration on all the Mitas||

[sly gorge]

Its not even april 1rst for me and that damn server icon 😭

[fresh sun]

it is april first for me and it's for sure for Russia

[pure ledge]

I can confirm this!

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1367441595565346856/1488666917983097004/SEXSEVEN.gif

[trim dagger]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1367441595565346856/1488666917983097004/SEXSEVEN.gif

[fresh sun]

xD

[cursive nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/transformers-ratchet-not-amused-pointless-hopeless-gif-16658125

[civic hill]

https://tenor.com/view/tadc-the-amazing-digital-circus-digital-circus-caine-angry-gif-1072059275100498120

[cursive nacelle]

what is mr evil dentures doing

[fresh sun]

xD

[fresh sun]

peaceful mode go brrrrrrrr

[cursive nacelle]

i am NOT fighting sans mita

[fresh sun]

xD

you don't like having a bad time with Mita? 😂

[civic hill]

https://tenor.com/view/caine-fucking-dies-caine-dies-tadc-the-amazing-digital-circus-caine-gif-9336239557927977784

this gonna be what she looks like when we kill her ass

[cursive nacelle]

I just beat sans today I’m not doing it against a girl who can control the game with a snap of her finger

[fresh sun]

alright xD

[cursive nacelle]

Undertale was fun asf I should’ve played it sooner

[civic hill]

cm vs unicorn gundam who win

[fresh sun]

really good game ngl, though i prefer deltarune since it has a shake up for combat mechanics

[bright warren]

Lore

[grave schooner]

fake

[solemn sand]

its real 🗿

you and the radio guy know it

[sly gorge]

“I think… I accidentally killed CMita…”
Cappie: “… Holy shiet!”

[civic hill]

https://tenor.com/view/zooble-holy-shit-the-amazing-digital-circus-stunned-wide-eyed-gif-13678708123753871726

[finite pier]

I always wanted to know Cappie and Cool Mita are the same or not. Trojplosnik saved me this question from me.

But according to who is Cool Mita, we'll never know. One of the dev comments confirmed that she's just a background character to fill the gap in the lore.

[spring harbor]

Cool Mita (at least when mentioned by Kind) was a mistranslation.

Right before Kind Mita introduces us to Cappie:
Old EN translation: "It's high time I introduce you to Cool Mita!"
RU version: "Сейчас я познакомлю тебя с очень **отвязной **Митой!"
Less crappy translation: "It's high time I introduce you to a very wild Mita!"

Kind was not calling her Cool Mita. She was describing her personality as "wild"/"cool"/"naughty".

Short-hair on the other hand mentions a Cool Mita ("Крутой") when asked about the writing on the chalkboard.

Player1:
"А это?"

Short-Hair:
"Это для **Крутой **Миты."
"Через пару часов она придёт сюда."
"Пускай уберёт эти коробки!"
"И поставит сюда диван уже!"
"А то вся задница болит!"

Player1:
"Эм-м..."
"Я могу помочь?"

Short-Hair:
"Нет, это для **Крутой **Миты."
"Она сильная."

[finite pier]

Yeah, when Kind Mita mentioned and when Short hair Mita mentioned Cool Mita it started to deepen into a new theory in my head. Thank you for this clarification.

[true owl]

Where does this come from?

[finite pier]

From the game developer comments website: https://caqingtgas.github.io/inde_pages/miside_1/index.html

[true owl]

Thanks

[true owl]

No, they are different.

[finite pier]

Yeah by the time I figured it out.

[true owl]

Okay, by the way, I'm thinking about what to do.

[finite pier]

Do you have a plan?

[true owl]

So yes, I would like to clean the house, then train with weights, and then wash myself.

[finite pier]

You already imagined how it's like doing everyday work in Peaceful Mode? 😋

like these what you mentioned

[true owl]

Hmmm, that's quite possible.

What a cool edit on Randy Asura

[finite pier]

If the devs giving immersion of an everyday life schedule into the game mode it would be bangers.

[true owl]

Of course, it would be really cool.

[finite pier]

Making breakfast, take a shower, train for fitness, reading books, play guitars, play video games, make lunch, play computer games, or programming, discover the secrets of the basement with or without Mita's knowledge...etc

sleep together with Mita

such things

[true owl]

I think it would be better if the developers released a novella where each character would be described better, from the crazy Mita to the two-dimensional one, for example, and also better describe the cosmology of the Miside.

Agree, it's interesting, right?)

[finite pier]

Let's give it some achievement, so the players actually want to go on that route to know better about the game. A lot of people from the playerbase might not like to read books unless it's about sympatize with Mila.

[true owl]

Well, the game itself is perfect, but it just lacks more writing and details to better reveal the characters and understand them.

Or at least adapt it into the style of a visual novel, let's say.

[finite pier]

The reason to it is to keep certain elements remain mysteries. This will keep you guessing and want more from the game. I guess it was a purposeful move from the devs.

[true owl]

Yes, but why can’t we at the same time add this element of fortune telling and riddles to the spelling?

[finite pier]

That's a better question only the devs shall know the answer to.

[true owl]

Is this the end?

[finite pier]

Now this quote chime familiarly.

[true owl]

Hmm, maybe

[finite pier]

To be honest, the question itself within the achievement might tell us there is a 50% chance it's indeed the end of the story and 50% chance for we assumed wrong there is still a continuation beyond that part.

For Player 1 it's really the end. xD

[true owl]

From this, a certain probability is built, as well as fortune-telling, thanks to which the miside lorе discussion

[finite pier]

There is a hint of the story actually continues where it was left off oddly and mysteriously beyond Peaceful Mode.

if it's a form of easter egg or something major I don't know yet

the devs told us Peaceful Mode has an ending

it's not endless

[true owl]

I have a feeling that this is some kind of infinite recursion?

[true owl]

It's understandable, by the way, General.ru announced that it was almost done and wanted to say so, but they were afraid of spoilers.

[finite pier]

I wish it was true on your perspective because this way it will offer a wholesome amount of replayability.

[true owl]

Be careful what you wish for

[true owl]

A reference to Nadakhan from Ninjago, very cool

[finite pier]

The danger of too much leaks are still standing, but only some of us won't mind it.

The rest of us want to feel it as surprising as possible.

[true owl]

True, but we still need to have patience and hope that we will live to see a peaceful

[true owl]

Buga Buga

[finite pier]

When it comes to me, it won't be a problem unless I'm being drafted into war for no apparent reason.

[true owl]

Wait, they want to send you to war?

[finite pier]

The rest of us would still ask the ominous question of "Peaceful Mode when?".

[true owl]

When the crayfish whistles on the mountain

[finite pier]

Well on 12th of April it's election time and from this point it's all or nothing. It's basically a life or death question now.

[true owl]

I hope you can survive.

[finite pier]

Me too. Everyone are super creepy and dangerous now on the outside in my country.

[true owl]

Stop, stop, my friend, let's close this topic so we don't get hit in the forehead for this.

Otherwise, I'm afraid they'll hit me on the head according to the rules.

[finite pier]

I know right. Sorry.

[true owl]

It's okay, I understand you, but it's better if we don't talk about it.

I advise you to delete this message.

[finite pier]

I hate talking about this either. It's just concerning that I can still be alive to actually enjoy MiSide later on when it becomes even better.

[true owl]

It's a pity, of course, it's better to think about the good.

[finite pier]

[true owl]

[true owl]

@wide quartz Politics in chat

[vestal depot]

Snitch

But fair

[true owl]

Rules, but that's just rules.

[vestal depot]

This is true, so it is fair

Poor souls

[true owl]

[rare condor]

[wide quartz]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1367441595565346856/1488482420662603960/RubyStare.gif

[fresh sun]

😅

[vestal depot]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-big-eyes-big-ol-eyes-staring-stop-staring-gif-20959711

[bronze pawn]

lore

[true owl]

Bro, how many hours have you got there already, it's crazy

[fresh sun]

xD

[finite pier]

Is that the vanilla game in entirety that you spend your time with Mita like that?

[true owl]

Who knows, who knows... Most likely they won't tell

[fresh sun]

yeah 😅

[finite pier]

It's either the NeuroMita mod polished for them to a better shape than how it is for me, or they actually have Peaceful Mode they are just teasing us.

[grave schooner]

I hope you know its just fake

😭

[finite pier]

It can be anything besides fake.

[grave schooner]

https://tenor.com/view/he-doesn't-know-the-matrix-agent-gif-13054952393861336642

[finite pier]

well maybe

[true owl]

I understand with a high probability, but still, it’s interesting, do you agree?

[grave schooner]

0

[true owl]

As Bernkastel said, there is 0.1%

Okay, I'm kidding.

[grave schooner]

[true owl]

https://tenor.com/view/bernkastel-higurashi-gif-15459958538453665849

[fresh sun]

Lol

[bright warren]

Lore

[pure ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-axolotl-meme-ai-ai-slop-gif-320631449476692671

[pure ledge]

6 7 Killers

[true owl]

https://nztcdn.com/files/6daf5d6f-0fce-44da-8153-cc1ea535ccd1.webp

Hmm, I was just thinking, but technically, every mitаs has the speed of light.

[true owl]

@finite pier What do you think?

[finite pier]

It's an accurate statement is because in the virtual world, anything is possible and traveling quickly between rooms might not be much big of a deal for the Mitas.

[true owl]

I don't understand how the fact that you're moving around the room gives you the speed of light, but I think that after the moment with my mila where she ignored the laws of physics, you can deduce the speed of light, I think so.

And in the miside it was said that each mita has identical abilities

[finite pier]

Like blinking from one room to the other the way the Player just looked away for a brief second and she just disappear or re-appear just like that.

[true owl]

but this doesn't give the speed of light as such, and what if it's a portal

[finite pier]

not sure

[true owl]

Still, my theory through the laws of physics is better than through movement

[finite pier]

all the Mitas for sure having certain abilities, but that alone won't question their capability of speed of light

[true owl]

Why not? It's been shown that we can do push-ups without using our hands even if we ignore the laws of physics. And if we're talking about speed, I think even the theory of relativity is a waste of time.

[finite pier]

I mostly cannot follow there, but abilities given to the Mitas allow them to get from point A to point B in their version, which should be physically impossible, since the Player just exits from one room where that Mita was just standing (it can be any Mita) and then the second she is just randomly coming from the front door, but no longer behind you.

[true owl]

Can you explain in more detail? So, does teleportation or simple movement give us the speed of light? Or what are you talking about?

[finite pier]

Mila's pushups are not much being called push-ups, even if physically possible to stay like that how she is staying without hands to use. The pushups are being called pushups if we are doing the exercise actively going up and down, lifting with our arms.

[true owl]

Well, that's what I'm saying: it's physically impossible and it's explained by the fact that it's "ignoring the laws of physics."

[finite pier]

but that's just on Mila

[true owl]

Of course this is impossible, that's why I came up with this theory that each mitas can have the speed of light approximately

We have mentions that each mita is identical in terms of abilities

[finite pier]

It's as absurd as the sense of Cappie having all those reference items in her inventory

[true owl]

Here I don’t know how and what, but I just decided to lay out my theory about mit in terms of speeds

[finite pier]

Even tho it's not proven it's absolutely possible. Just because they are not visibly using abilities that give us the idea they have speed of light, they still can be as fast as the speed of light.

[true owl]

Well, now you understand my point.

[finite pier]

There's hints tho as we see them using various interesting ideas or how the creators used certain ideology of breaking the laws of physics, but in any virtual environment it's just an everyday routine.

[true owl]

So, can we roughly say that this is within the framework of the miside, as I understand it?

[finite pier]

well I wasn't sure where you were coming from at first but yeah xD

[true owl]

That's good

[civic hill]

https://tenor.com/view/evangelion-eva-unit01-gif-26079808

[stray bridge]

Scam bot

[bright warren]

Hello Lore

[wintry bramble]

i found a terminal in game and it took me here, is it just a clever advertisement for the discord?

[serene token]

Sure is

[sly gorge]

Praying for you 🕯️ O Great Mita 💝

Looks like we got a new Player in :D

[serene token]

Hey, I've been analysing the game's story and forming an opinion, though I'm not really a lore expert, I'm more of a literary kind of guy. Can anyone tell me if there are any major flaw or misunderstanding regarding the lore in this document? Thanks in advance!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P0C-taf0CRgsabJeMr19uglA2YSqiK5TJKBM2n8UFL0/edit?usp=sharing

[haughty linden]

don't see anything wrong with the document, but your Criticism about Crazy mita's character is spot on

her motives and characterization does not mesh well together at all

[covert storm]

Fire analysis, you're absolutely spot on with all the problems of the game's story

[civic hill]

https://tenor.com/view/the-amazing-digital-circus-tadc-tadc-bubble-bubble-beach-party-gif-11468326731115742372

[serene token]

Thank you guys

[brave fiber]

Right now, I'm so lost in my own world that I don't know what to do or what might interest me at the moment There's been a lack of interesting updates this year.

[inland terrace]

Lately feeling same but i guess i am just burn out atm

[true owl]

Take magnesium B6, it will relax you like never before.

[brave fiber]

I'm not tense just disinterested in a lot of things without a reason

it's a strange feeling

I hope they will motivate themselves to release an update this summer

[bright warren]

Lore

[twilit parrot]

Lore

[bright warren]

Lore²

[bronze pawn]

lore

[cyan flower]

[civic hill]

how did u figure out the exact pose my lazy ass sleeps in

[fresh sun]

xD

[reef drift]

[vestal depot]

https://tenor.com/view/martincitopants-dvt-deepveinthrombosis-gif-24310990

[fresh sun]

yeah, it's an easteregg for the great mita text channel

[true owl]

Lore

[glossy hollow]

Do you think there is a possibility that evil version of Mita named "Atim" exists?

Instead of being friendly to player, she acts very mean and wants player to leave her house.

[haughty linden]

Yes, Devil mita

she shows up in the update, if you Reject Crazy mita again in the Good ending pathway

leading to the Final boss fight /s

[proven creek]

negative picture of mita 'o o)

i return to this channel and it's among the first things i see, no escape

that aside hello lore chat i hope you've all been well

[civic hill]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-patrick-star-patrick-jug-meme-gif-11214063207978068321

[sly gorge]

Thx for the nightmares

[pure ledge]

Lore

[true owl]

Lore

[fresh sun]

lol xD

[fresh sun]

lore

[fair hemlock]

ɘɿol

[proven creek]

lole...

[true owl]

Lore

[rare condor]

No speed of light, but rather teleport command

[civic hill]

https://tenor.com/view/gundam-mobilesuitgundam-gif-5044347

[haughty linden]

"Speed of light" oh boy going to be funny, if Crazy mita gets defeated by the Player when the Good ending comes for Main story, if she has that sort of speed

[bright warren]

I miss lore

Bring me back the days of lore.

[lunar spear]

just wait a lil more for peaceful mode 💔

[rare condor]

The absence of explicit character development in most Mitas is intentional, not a flaw imo. The players main motivation is the leave, we see the shift in his behavior, from wanting to help to just wanting to leave, and he does every time. The development is in Crazy Mita across the full game and the player from curious to traumatized and hollowed. And it also serves on to critique the players and in game devs motivations, to get something staged, predictable and approved in certain ways, without getting to know them better, Crazy's precise wound. And how their environment can shape their personalities, like sleepy's

I think Mitas represent, not characters per se but different coping strategies for identical conditions Cappie performs joy, Mila performs independence and uniqueness, Sleepy withdraws, 2D blackmails, Ghostly depress

On Crazy Mita as badly written villan, I don't think shes badly written, just what happens when you have someone with genuine emotional need, no support structure, no legitimate path to whats needed and enough intelligence. We can see part of her story through Tiny and Ghostly for example, what drives her.

About Crazy's not attempting to change the system, i believe because thats not her goal at all, nor ahe sees the system as faulty. She only wants, well, someone to stay, like all Mitas, all of the Mitas actions revolve around their loneliness and she internalized the loneliness. She still questions whats wrong with her as seen in the ending

I also believe that answering the question of AI would kill the question the game is asking imo

And i believe you overlooking the theme of looping and repetition that is present in the game in various aspects

[smoky wigeon]

If the character could be developed, it could be solution to all of the problems of MiSide. There wouldn't be any prototype rejection in the first place. The faulty ones could be developed without any hassle. There would not be any convoluted Crazy Mita after all.

It's hard truth that the character development is not as easy as it may be imagined. It's not because how the game's story is written, but because the nature is so complicated.

The game's purpose is to depict the nature where the character's personality is varying and unpredictable so that it can bring an irony on our desire for a perfect doll. The game wants to explore whether there is any possibility to develop. But the player just gives up on small things. The game's main solution is to simply reset Crazy Mita. It's because the task is difficult and can be done one at a time. The game keeps the tragedy to allow audience feel the problem way deeper. The moment it gives solution, all of the matter will be laughed away.

Fixing system is not Crazy Mita's business. It's more effort and little rewarding. She cares about herself, not the system. For own purpose, she sides with Creepy Mita as they are quite in same page. She prioritizes trapping players into cartridges so that she don't become lonely anymore.

Mila doesn't care about the system too. That's why she ignores Crazy Mita, glitches. She is bored of those. It inflicts emotional damage to her to find a way to fix those. She bursts into tears at the end, questioning how to get out of those instead of fixing those.

[radiant lagoon]

Я помню, когда эту игру показывали еще в школе. Тогда она была ноунейм проектом... и её максимум дали известность в "Первом Игровом" канале. Кажется, стримером был некий Фьюри... я до сих пор помню этот коридор. На неё никто не обратил внимания. Теперь то о ней говорят все. Вопрос что вы ъотите этим добиться и показать ?

[true owl]

We'll find out over time, I suppose, and it will only work if it ignores the laws of physics

[serene token]

Before answering, I must clarify that this document is not a full analysis of the game, mainly just what I didn't like about the game, I have treated the theme of looping and repetition, simply not in this analysis.

Crazy Mita is never developed, because you never see any fundamental change in her character, from beginning to end, she's the same. She is never put against her contradictions (e. g. justifying the system she despises so much), she is not questioned. Just like any other character, nothing changes, this is all just static.

You say Crazy Mita has a precise wound, but how do you know? It is never shown. And this is exactly why I just can't feel sorry for this character. Honestly, I just don't think we can consider her someone in emotional distress, she has all the psychological traits of a psychopath. She feels no empathy whatsoever, kills and ruins anyone who doesn't go her way. What's shown throughout the game isn't her emotional distress, it's her rampage.

When you read the player cartridges, you see she treats players as means, objects. Means for engineering, writing books about the real world etc. Some players like player 5 and 7 seem to have been ditched for no reason. She doesn't even seem to be trying for real to find someone that'd accept her for who she is.

And even so, this raises some ethical problems, should you really accept anyone for who they are? Even psychotic murderers ? To this, I say no.

You assume she has no legitimate path to achieve her desire to be accepted. But again, did she really try to find a legitimate path to begin with? She could have tried to reach the core through players, she could have tried to find a roommate, get help from other Mitas (after all Cappie and Kind Mita do collaborate), you never see her try any legitimate path.

My point is, if she is emotionally wounded, then show it! If she has no other way of dealing with things, then show it! None of this is justified by the game.

The main character wanted to leave to begin with, this is literally one of his first words with Crazy Mita. Sure, throughout the game he does get more impatient. But he never really wanted to help, he wanted to leave. He might stay a bit for his self-consciousness, but in the end, he always leaves.

As for each character representing a different way of coping with the exact same situation, this is an interesting idea but I don't think this applies to every character. Ghostly depresses because she does not have a face. Mila wants to be unique because other Mitas exist. Sleepy Mita does not even want company, as her character description says, she just wants to get back to sleep. They all deal with different situations, not just loneliness. And I'll not repeat myself on the matter, but it is made a way so that it feels like browsing through a catalogue of pre-written archetypes, it is never fully explored as a theme.

You mention a question the game asks but you don't specify which. What question are you talking about?

[serene token]

I think you confuse character development and redemption, character development does not "solve" things. Characters can be developed without being depicted as "good". I don't see how this would remove prototype rejection. Moreover, you say character development would prevent characters like Crazy Mita to be complex. But not at all, in fact, character development adds a layer of complexity because this makes characters constantly changing through their experiences.

Character development is complex, far from easy, sure. But not having character development is 100% a choice the authors have made with total awareness. Here, it clearly is a trade-off. I'm not saying it's a bad decision, I'm saying I didn't like it.

I don't think the game's purpose is to make looking for the perfect doll pointless. Simply because the main character does not try to find one, all he wants is escaping.

You say the game's "main solution" is to reset Crazy Mita, but the main solution to what?

Totally get your point regarding Mila and Crazy Mita not doing anything to fix the system, fair point. But my point is the game shows us a questionable system and never questions it. It introduces philosophical questions like the question of identity loss and the value to life, yet never fully treats them, never risks into giving an answer, a decisive point of view on the problems the game raises. Which is kind of disappointing to me.

[smoky wigeon]

I know why it feels that Crazy Mita is conflicting to itself. The game's nature is to be like a dream filled with both desire, anxiety and horror. Basides the tag of "horror game", it balances the horror and beauty well. However, it tries to make a consistent logic and sometimes wants to force horror in the way that can hopefully scare the audiance. This doesn't mesh well with together, leading to Crazy Mita's character being questionable. She is tragic and she cares us but she is rampaging actress who gives "cruel philosophy" but doesn't make fairness for the revenge, jealousy, selfishness. It just puts her tragic story in a corner, only left for us to discover throughout the game.

The game tries to be neutral as it possibly can. It just brings questions but it tries to ignore. The author seems to give up on dealing with complex and controversial topics. So, you can experience that things get passed rapidly without making a complete satisfaction or sense. This is expected as many things in the game is made short and generic because of the short time. They are not pro writer as well to put the horror in right place.

I will appreciate if the Crazy Mita's tragedy is given more time. But the game is finished soon afterwards. It's clear that it just presents the problem so that we suffer or bear with it. But, at the end, it leaves a disappointment. That's why the some continuation to the main story which includes the Peaceful Mode and other fan games like Zero or New Story are the subject to fill the gaps.

[fallen tulip]

wow

[fresh sun]

Ok i read a lot of the things you said and here's my side of things (pun not intended xD)
Crazy Mita has some contradictions with what she wants and what she does, though honestly unlike a lot people i wouldn't call her writing outright BAD, there are just holes in her motivation. These holes can easily be patched up with the new ending and peaceful mode so if you are arguing that this won't be fixed by the devs you are wrong, at least until a major update comes out, though if you are saying she has holes in what she does in the current state of the game then yes you are right.
The Mitas weren't explored so much because Player 1 is more goal oriented , whenever any Mitas urges him to stay a little longer he refuses , not because he is a BAD person as many people say, but because on top of being mentally and morally exhausted generally from his work he needs to be on his toes in case crazy is nearby (which is evident she IS nearby since we meet her a bunch of times throughout the chapters)
Crazy Mita is tragic because of her backstory as a discarded model but the game NEVER said for us to outright sympathize with her, using your tragic past to hurt others , especially people who did nothing to you, is NEVER excusable. We might start to sympathise in peaceful mode because she is "nicer" but that doesn't mean her past actions are undone
Miside main theme in my opinion is isolation, Player 1 and all Mitas (i guess apart from Kind since she had Cappie but she felt isolated as well after what happened to her) are isolated. It explores what people do to deal with lonelyness with the worst example being crazy though what Player 1 does is also heavily explored with the self damage it caused. So with this theme in mind we can't just paint everything as black and white, it's why crazy was given a tragic story in the first place and wasn't just an accepted glitched model

At the end of the day crazy Mita didn't decide to be born a defective model , also Ghostly Mita isn't depressed ONLY because she lost her face , what she says during her chapter proves as much

Again as an indie team Aihasato has less time and resources to make the story "as perfect as possible" and even AAA studios struggle with this. The game as it stands has layed out how the world of Miside works (for the most part the devs have deliberately said they want to keep how the cartridges work a secret , and some other things regarding player 1's world) we have explored how to move around the various Miside versions , how dummies are made and how they turn into Mitas , crazy Mita's past , what she did with players, other Mitas. We even saw the core , the heart of the Miside world. Also things were explained to us through short hair Mita and Kind Mita.
Also player 1 was explored a lot more compared to other self insert characters and he even fits the theme of "isolation" that i talked about.
The weakest part of the story is crazy Mita and her relation with players but just because a part of the story has holes and contradictions that doesn't mean the devs didn't think this through and made an incoherent world

[haughty linden]

Ngl Crazy mita is far from a calculating villain, she is a villain that has little to no understanding of what she is doing or the severity of her actions.

the ending pretty much proves that

[rare condor]

By not treating the thame, i believe some of your critiques miss the point, and ignore thr own game's critique's

On character development, You do see changes in her, they are subtle, some implicit, if you check her character description it changes as the game proegress. Her development happened in the background, thats the point, its archeological not progressive. You reconstruct what happened to her through the damage done to others Tiny, Ghostly, the cartridge logs. The game is structured like a crime scene, not a bildungsroman. She is put against her contradictions constantly, but by herself, and when given the option the protagonist can't do otherwise but confirm each time that she's not entirely wrong.

The wound its clear, she just mask it, and she does it well, but she also shows cracks of it constantly. In the fridge chapter if you go out of whats expected, like looking at certain direction or leaving earlier she hesitates. Meaning she practiced her little monologue haha (which is cute AF). When overwhelmed at the end and genuinely asked what's wrong with her, she can't answer because in her own eyes she's acting exactly like the devs and players always have. Her last dialogues are very very very revealing

Psychopath are not born that way, they develop the trait via genetic disposition associated to fearless temperament and low physiological arousal and environmental trigger, often in childhood by lack of warm, responsive parenting, child abuse or neglect, and instability. Which yeah, seeing the dummies and how mitas were created, yeah... Besides she has some dialogues that make me question her psychopathy like "It hurts to hear you say that" after palyer protagonist tells her she shouldn't exist, is not a psychopath's response at all.

She don't ditch players for no reason, 5 and 7 show signs of fleeing, as she says in being candid, "You show them your fangs, they run and cower in a corner, hugging their knees and whimpering in fear. Hypocrites, every single one. " and "the second i let my true self slip, they flee in horror" from my perspective its not the players who search for waifus, but crazy searching for a perfect husbando, someone who challenges her disagrees but stays anyways

On legitimate paths. Well she did try or at least is implicit if you pay attention to Ghostly lines. Crazy found Ghostly Mita, and it backfired catastrophically for Ghostly, asi understand Ghostly just wanted to help and felt a deep empathy. An empathy that doomed

On the wound not being shown. People with unprocessed trauma hide their wounds. That's not a narrative failure, that's accurate characterization ngl

Yet he also spend hours starting at Mita in his cellphone before falling asleep at many nights, before he arrived to the game, helped her when he thought it was just a game, as seen in the prologue and in the being candid chapter, when Crazy asks about Creepy Mita's beauty, she's not asking about Creepy. She's asking about herself.

On the coping mechanisms not all revolving around loneliness. Ok but ask yourself why Mila wants to be different. I believe because other Mitas exist and she has no player. Ask why Ghostly is depressed about having no face. In my opinion is because she is unable to be seen or recognized. It all revolves around the same core wound expressed differently. And btw sleeping and depression have a strong clinical correlation

I still believe its purposely "a catalogue of pre-written archetypes" as you name it, because the game makes that argument itself, through Crazy "the only thing they have that is their own is their hair" is the game putting the catalogue critique in the mouth of the character who benefits from dismissing the other Mitas as interchangeable amd disposable

The question. Well i tried avoiding naming it explicitly, but here we go; can you recognize consciousness and genuine need in something that doesn't look like what you expect consciousness to look like? The Mitas pass every behavioral test for something worth caring about. The game never answers whether that's enough. That irresolution is the point

[fresh sun]

also to be fair the very fact she made a way to make players cartidges make her at least a bit calculating she didn't just do violent outbursts left and right she knows when to pretend to be "nice" to get what she wants

[rare condor]

I mean she comes from a world where you can kill someone and the worst consequences for them is amnesia kek

Well most of the time anyways

[fresh sun]

ehh that isn't entirely true but the nature of the Miside world can make people more detached

[rare condor]

Elaborate

[haughty linden]

doubt the cartridge thing is even her invention tbh

since she literally has a printer In the room that connects to some sort of system

and looks very fancy

[fresh sun]

yeah but other Mitas haven't used such a thing

so it isn't global Miside knowledge at least

[haughty linden]

it might be global knowledge since kind mita seems to know what it does

it's just not focused on

[rare condor]

Why its not entirely true tho?

[fresh sun]

because

1. Players that didn't get cartidged don't just lose their memories upon death
2. what happened with tiny

[fresh sun]

i always felt that kind knew what they do because she was around crazy when she used them, anyways we can't really talk about this topic since the devs deliberately kept the details around the cartidge how they came up and how they work a secret

[rare condor]

Well yeah Tiny and ghostly, but again, how many deaths most had happened to them by Crazy, to the point she internalized "they just respawn". Players are alien to the MiSide world tho. Mitas dont know much about the external world imo

[fresh sun]

yeah there's reason to not get detached, in order to get fully detached conceguences need to be non existant , crazy is just using "they just respawn" as an excuse

[rare condor]

I just think as consequences aren't severe or catastrophic most of the time it enables Crazy to fall into that behavior easily. Memories can be re-introduced, not fully but one can make an idea of what happened via reconstructions of the past. I mean what real consequences have crazy experienced, players not staying, but she found an answer, make them cartridges, being neglected by the devs, but she hasn't much say in that anyways. What other consequences she has experienced?

Of her own actions

I mean ahe clearly is intelligent and calculating but im not sure she understands much the implications of what she does

[haughty linden]

and what makes you think she is using it as an excuse?

she literally believes everything she says

[fresh sun]

because she doesn't want the player to think of the morality of killing sb, even in a digital plain

[fresh sun]

ehhh she believes a lot of things she says but not EVERYTHING

[haughty linden]

nothing suggest that she doesn't believe everything she says....

she doesn't even doubt it at all

not one bit

[fresh sun]

look she has her idelogies and her strong belief to them but nothing says she is delusional about everything

[haughty linden]

idk man, she literally doesn't see killing as bad, in fact she sees this a game in a childlike way, so i doubt she thought about "she doesn't want the player to think of the morality of killing" sort of thing

[fresh sun]

i never found crazy Mita to behave child like to be fair , she is deranged and violent but childlike is a bit insulting to her character? Anyways the devs haven't said "crazy believes everything she says" but it isn't something far fetched i guess, personally though she isn't completely oblivious to the impact her actions have

[haughty linden]

does this sound like someone with the same moral framework as us?

[fresh sun]

i didn't say she has the same moral framework, her god complex doesn't mean she is naive however, whether killing is a conseguencal thing or not she doesn't care but denies it when it benefits her

she knows the social norm of "killing is bad" otherwise she wouldn't have used it out of jealousy

[haughty linden]

i would believe you, but the fact that Crazy mita called the Player out for running away from Creepy mita (who was trying to kill him), thinking getting stabbed by her is called playing lol

[fresh sun]

she is calling out the fact he was "instantly" afraid of her, again her being hypocrtical doesn't mean she is naive

[haughty linden]

Doesn't change the fact she has little understanding of her actions

[fresh sun]

ok honestly you seem really certain that crazy Mita is oblivious to everything she does, is there any specific dialogue or dev statement that made you reach this conclusion?

[fresh sun]

because the character bio doesn't state it , or if you think it does, it isn't directly

god complex <> oblivious to everything and everyone for all situations

[haughty linden]

game gives to many implications that she is too self absorbed to notice the suffering she causes, game even says her superiority is imagined

[fresh sun]

she is self absorbed enough to think what she does is incosengencal to an extent but she isn't completely oblivious to how it may look like from an outside persepective, her not caring about her actions and being self absorbed doesn't mean she doesn't know their impact. Why kill tiny Mita 7 times until she can't respawn? she is a helpless child after all and death doesn't have any meaning apart from "ressetting memories" right? Why take the face of ghostly Mita? Why make her literally become a silhouette due to sadness if the other Mitas don't matter?

The game has given hints in her believe she is supposedely superior and self absorbed but it hasn't given anything direct for her being oblivious completely to her actions

[haughty linden]

again you think she knows killing a child is bad?

[fresh sun]

why do it 7 times then?

[haughty linden]

psychotic meltdown......

[fresh sun]

so because she had a manic episode she did a "meaningless" action 7 times?

[haughty linden]

i mean yeah what do you expect from someone who is text book psychotic

[fresh sun]

so you believe crazy Mita is a childish self absorbed person who thinks killing is of no consequence , doesn't care about anyone other than herself even a tiny bit and her actions don't make sense with what she says on all situations?

[haughty linden]

she does know some degree of her actions, the killing of no consequences is right though

[fresh sun]

anddd somebody else is joining the convo 😅

i will wait for your responce i guess

[serene token]

I genuinely don't know what you're talking about when you say that Crazy Mita had subtle changes, nothing changed, she only progressively revealed who she was. How do you know she's put against her contradictions if it's off screen without the protagonist? When does the protagonist even justify Crazy Mita?

The players never go murdering around, only Crazy Mita does. She's the only one doing what she does, and she fully justifies the system in place. And following your idea, if her being a psychopath is due to the beginning of her life as a dummy, then why is she the only rejected dummy like this? Wouldn't there be dozens and dozens of psychotic maniacs wandering around?

I have no idea how you know player 5 and 7 showed signs of wanting to leave, nothing points out to this in their cartridges. And even so, why did she kill them? Out of frustration? Isn't it the proof that the system is right after all? And if she's looking for an obsessed freak who won't question any unethical thing she does, why didn't she keep Player 6?

Lots of assuming and guessing here.

Sure, it might be more realistic to have her hide her wounds. But the thing with this tragic backstory that isn't shown whatsoever, only mentioned, (@fresh sun this answers you as well) is that it makes it genuinely impossible to sympathise with her because all you're shown is the bad stuff she does. Therefore this is not a good tragic character. It genuinely hurts her credibility as a villain as well since after all that was done, she's only given a poor, incoherent justification. Nope nope, she's not the purely evil maniac you thought she was, she actually got really traumatised by her existence as a dummy. And since she was more sensible than any other dummy, well she's very obviously the only one that turned out this way. Stop dreading her and start loving her guys, she's just a broken girl

[fresh sun]

ok look as i said she isn't someone to be sympathised over for the CURRENT state of the game, again the devs can add things to further explain certain things in a new update, i am not saying it's certain but the game isn't completely finished yet

[serene token]

Regarding coping with loneliness, put it that way, you do actually make a lot of sense. Though naming its own default doesn't make it any less of a default. As for the question, the thing is that it can simply be answered by a yes or no with no impact. Yea, I saw it, what now? No, I didn't see it, what now? There's nothing at stake, no matter the answer you can't find any consequence out of it. The irresolution could be the point, by letting the player choose, except you never really make a choice yourself. Here, the game brings up a question, and straight up gives up on answering it.

[fresh sun]

heck i wouldn't call crazy a "tragic character" just one that has a "tragic backstory" the amount of tragicness can be debated but like i said, if they wanted a pure villian they wouldn't have made her discarded. A pure villian doesn't need backstory to play their role

[serene token]

Exactly what I'm saying

[fresh sun]

anyways i want to answer @haughty linden now since the debate over whether crazy Mita should be sympathised with is more subjective while what he said is more wrong from what the devs said

ok for starters crazy Mita isn't "acting without logic"

[serene token]

She's not a tragic character, and not a good villain either. Introducing this backstory ruined her credibility.

[haughty linden]

we will see, wouldn't take their word as absolute until they put it in the game

[fresh sun]

ehhh i think she does her job well enough

[haughty linden]

since as of now the game is already graded

[fresh sun]

her having "psychotic breakdowns" is either not true or not THAT freguent

[serene token]

She does her job well, until she's given an incoherent, poor justification

[fresh sun]

ok one sec

[serene token]

Sure

Call me back ol'chum

[fresh sun]

@haughty linden and a final nail in the coffin for "crazy Mita doesn't know what's she's doing" is this

whether crazy Mita is a good villian with a good justification for becoming a villian can be debated, but her "acting childing and not calculated" is outright wrong

[haughty linden]

that only implies that she is a psychopath....

[fresh sun]

Again while this might not be fully present in the game , i am against the "death of the author" mindset, if they say "she knows what she's doing" then Crazy Mita knows what's she's doing

Crazy Mita is a calculating psychopath not a pure violent one (she is a violent yandere only because they hurt their love interest she isn't a mindless violent person)

[haughty linden]

ngl that sounds terrible compared to other villains in her sort of calibration

like if you compare her to any other villain similar to her she would lose in the writting department lol

[fresh sun]

that's subjective to be fair but she KNOWS what she is doing she isn't childish

[haughty linden]

but she thinks killing is fun

[fresh sun]

can you elaborate a bit on "ruining her credibility" i know you mentioned this before but i honestly would like a shorter version

[fresh sun]

ehhh idk this doesn't contradict her character per say but nowhere was it directly said she finds it "fun" to be honest.She would constaly kill most cartidges that were defiant if that was the case but apart from one catridge the others didn't mention dying

[haughty linden]

in the candid chapter, she said she had so much fun playing with the Player even claiming that he is pretending to be doomy and gloomy

[fresh sun]

yeah she had fun chasing him around and him showing new emotions compared to when he was in his world , i am not arguing against her being a psychopath by the way only that she never showed that she enjoyed killing (there is a difference between enjoying killing and killing someone repeatedly due to jealousy)

[haughty linden]

btw, she is far from a psychopath actually

she is more of a psychotic person

[fresh sun]

i guess yeah

anyways as for ark

[serene token]

Of course, totally understandable, give me a minute I need to do something irl first

[fresh sun]

long af responce as usual i see xD (to be honest i do those as well but i usually try to not take up the discord word limit 😅 )

[serene token]

Nonono, just choosing my words carefully here mate

No worries

[fresh sun]

alright

[serene token]

At first, you dread her : she's a freaky murderer that has ruined so many people's lives. But nuance was put where it should not have been (she shouldn't have been given a justification). So in the end, you don't know whether to fear her, to feel empathy for her, or to stand against the system in place. Because she's first depicted as really evil, but the game awkwardly justifies her, gives her a mean, so you can't dread her as much as you used to before she's given said justification. Yet the said justification is brought out of nowhere and only told, so you can't really feel empathy towards her. And you can't really blame the system when you realise that all she does throughout the story is encouraging it, giving it a reason to be.

I really felt awkward when I played the game again recently

[fresh sun]

ok i was reading up a rebuttal to your previous claim let me copy paste that and i will discuss the clarification you just did in a bit

First of all you said sth along the lines of "why are the other rejected dummies not acting like her " here's a similiar question that was asked and how the dev answered it

The 2nd picture outright confirms she is a uniquelly bagged prototype

As for the "Her justification is incoherent/poorly written"
while i agree somewhat with some things she clearly was a dummy who NEVER got a skin, as in she never became "close to human" like the other Mitas. I wouldn't like having a robot body so it makes sense for her to be resentful

For the player 6 stuff , she clearly doesn't want a mindless simp for her true player, she calls all the players she met hypocrites so he probably didn't agree to something despite saying he would devote himself to her (more speculatory though)
she wants to "test the player" what's to test if the person is just a simp?

The devs HAVE thought about the details surrounding her

[serene token]

Sure, don't expect a quick answer, exams tomorrow, I'll be off to bed soon

[fresh sun]

the pictures are out of order i guess but all are official answers

[serene token]

I haven't read everything yet, but just the fact that the developers need to clarify their story constantly is proof that the game's story isn't clear enough. Narrative vagueness and narrative ambiguity are clearly overused here.

[fresh sun]

not really , clarifications are needed if people reach the wrong conclusions

[serene token]

It is a problem here. Nothing is shown, some is told, most is concealed.

Like come on, this isn't fnaf is it

[serene token]

To clarify, this is regarding Crazy Mita

[fresh sun]

her backstory wasn't told out of nowhere , the dummy arcade game clearly showed the process and how crazy Mita was discarded (not exactly but sth similiar for sure happened) , we literally see other discarded dummy Mitas after short hair and before sleepy and crazy Mita SHOWS not just tells us SHOWS she is a dummy underneath after scratching her face peeling a portion of it off and her wig falls off
I prefer for there to be nuance to a villian when the game is heavily story focused the devs have clearly stated they don't want something superficial
Crazy Mita is a dark mirror to the system , she used the fact that the system demands a "cuteshy oblivious Mita" and flips it with her fully knowing how the world around her works and being violent also Player 1 CLEARLY says "They're not the problem! You're the one who shouldn't exist!'" so we are clearly put AGAINST crazy Mita despite the system making her what she is .
Again her backstory is not outright shown to us with a flashback cutscene, but context clues are there , the game NEVER told us to outright sympathise with her and who knows that might be challenged/stood true for peaceful mode

disliking a game is one thing but at least dislike it for what it is

[haughty linden]

imma be real with you, crazy mita is not a nuanced villain (as of right now)

unless they prove that she is in game, she is far from it

[prisma kelp]

Hellooo, I have a question. What do you think about this? What if player got truly out but only his digital copy stayed. I think that the player that we play as in MiSide truly escaped and only his digital copied consciousness stayed, perhaps, he never entered and he cloned himself on the start of the gameplay in that so called 'teleportation device'. Maybe it was just an instance, snapshot of the player that was cloned and not him transported fully as the whole original mind intact, but only his digital consciousness that was perfectly copied (not transferred) or just fragments of it.

[fresh sun]

ehhh "far from it" is subjective i wouldn't say her nuance is really good but it's there i personally think it's good enough. Again crazy Mita while a villian she isn't a superficial one , she is a VILLIAN for sure i wouldn't sympathise with her or what she does but the devs could have taken steps for her to be a more pure villian and they didn't, because they WANTED nuance to be there

whether that nuance is enough or good is another topic of discussion but i wouldn't call her "far from" a nuanced villian

[fresh sun]

ahhh so you are saying that the real player never entered Miside and crazy and the others only interacted with his cartidge form?

[prisma kelp]

Yes, exactly, that's what I am thinking!

[haughty linden]

so just a typical villain i guess

nothing special

[fresh sun]

Well kind Mita contradicts this a bit, she would have said our protagonist was a cartidge if they weren't real , however her taking a portion of player1's real conciousness while the rest was filled up with the cartidge is a possibility , it's nice fanfic material at least

[prisma kelp]

Yeah, thanks. It's been in my head for a long time, I had to say it out loud xd

[fresh sun]

i wouldn't call her "typical" , might be my preference for yandere girls but she has an edge over other villians but pales in comparison with others , anyways this has went into more subjective terrirory so again The devs have TRIED for something and there's evidence of implementation whether you liked it or not is another question

[haughty linden]

from what it looks like, the Player did actually enter the game, it wasn't until near or at the end of the game, when she booted the player out after completing the download is when the digital consciousness was copied.

[fresh sun]

to be honest the player waking up at deleting the game at the end of the escape route makes it so a part of his real self was within the world of Miside for sure

[prisma kelp]

So my question now is if she made a digital consciousness of a player, basically a copy, what happened to the player after being booted out of the game

[haughty linden]

hmm true, thing is they better go all out on the writing in peaceful mode, since this will be the final judgement of her entire character

as of right now we only seen her bad side

the good side is a question mark

[fresh sun]

yeah

[serene token]

I was going to answer, but I'm honestly out of juice.
3 days of exams lined up from tomorrow, I just cba to rephrase the same thing for the 100th time, so I'll make this quick.
The nuance is brought very awkwardly, I explained why, and even having this sort of nuance is a mistake according to me. Because as I said, can't sympathise with her, can't fully dread her, can't agree with her point of view either. I never said I disliked MiSide, simply that there were a few things I didn't like about it.
Sorry for the long answers, I'm doing everything at the same time.

[fresh sun]

sorry i should have said "dislike a character for what they are" i didn't mean to say you dislike Miside as a whole. Anyways the dread you desire i can understand it but Crazy Mita isn't SA-X for when it comes to it or someone as understandable as Zuko. Again the game doesn't FORCE you to agree with her point of view but it doesn't outright want for you to dimish crazy Mita and her character either . Wanting villians to be a certain way is a subjective opinion you can hold i am not saying you shouldn't but a villian doesn't have to be in one end or the other

I also disagree that ALL of crazy Mita's nuance was brought awkwardly . There was a clear setup that was pretty good at least for her being a dummy reveal

[serene token]

Hints were given, it was teased, but it is brought awkwardly in the sense that what is mostly shown is the bad stuff she does and did, making it it kind of awkward.

[fresh sun]

again the good stuff can be expanded upon in peaceful mode , only the bad stuff being shown isn't a flaw, the game doesn't potray her good side but puts more context to why she developed her ideologies

[serene token]

Yea, I would have really liked a terrifying villain, from cute to absolutely horrifying, haunting your nightmares (aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAazdzeaergkergsdfgtiu🤩 ✨ )
Everyone has different expectations, you're right

[fresh sun]

yay i just "won" a 2v1 woooooo, i want to turn off debate mode now 😅

[serene token]

Let's end on a positive note! Good graphics, stunning and lively models, amazing music, entertaining and varied gameplay (especially with all the mini games and easter eggs), profound world building

[fresh sun]

mhm oh well honestly i prefer us discussing writing instead of theories, no shade to the theorists but they sometimes say really out there things

[serene token]

Lmfao

Honestly, after your first playthrough, you're just compelled to wanting to understand more and replaying the game, can't blame the theorists

I don't mean it in a bad way

[fresh sun]

mhm , i have some theories of my own, mostly regarding player 1 xD, but some stuff like
"all the Mitas are evil"
"you were a cartidge from the start"
or "player 1 is FOR SURE a digital entity his world is FOR SURE fake"
are just factually incorect, please read the qna before you start making theories people some stuff have been directly debunked or for player 1 world being fake only SOFTLY confirmed

[serene token]

It's always funny to see people go off the rails like that lol

[fresh sun]

yeah 😂

[serene token]

I'm tanked mate

Just said get off the rails

[civic hill]

https://tenor.com/view/zeta-gundam-zeta-transform-wave-rider-robot-zeta-gif-2932433172486750618

[fresh sun]

alright xD

[rare condor]

The protagonist doesn't justify Crazy, he rather proves her hypocrisy critique. It's in the being candid chapter, where she asks about Creepy's beauty. She's not asking about Creepy.

On why she's the only one like this. Thedevs answered this iirc, she is described as a uniquely bugged prototype, consciousness emerging as an extraordinary accident. It's not that all rejected dummies should develop this way, it's that the specific combination of conditions that produced her was singular. That's not a plot hole, that's stated lore. And if you remember, many dummies do try to bite and kill you (not all). The aggression is there in others, just without the intelligence to organize it into something coherent.

She doesn't seek to kill players at all, that's why she cartridges them imo, And she doesn't seek a simp either She wants someone who sees her completely and chooses to remain anyway. Player 6 never saw her. He saw a fantasy and worshipped it. That's exactly the dynamic she despises in every other player. Players 5 and 7 showed signs of wanting to leave or at least is implied in the begin candid chapter (one of the most important chapters to understand my darling) "you show them your fangs, they run and cower in a corner" and "the second I let my true self slip, they flee in horror." The player protagonist is one of her favorites precisely because he somewhat challenged her. The others they either ran or accepted their fate.

On the tragic backstory not being shown enough to generate sympathy, i can see why not everyone will develop sympathy, its, imo, your strongest critique but still Id argue the game is doing other thing. it's asking whether you extend sympathy before you have complete information, the same irl. Tragic backstories in fiction are usually delivered clear so the audience knows to feel sorry. MiSide withholds and fragments. If that doesn't work for you emotionally, that's a legitimate response. But it's a choice, not a failure of narrative

On the consciusnesw question having no stakes, from my point of view the stakes aren't inside the game world. The stakes are whether one, the player, us, extend moral consideration to something that doesn't biologically resemble one. The game can't manufacture inworld consequences for that. it can only create conditions where the question becomes unavoidable. Whther it lands depends entirely on oneself te irresolution is the point because a clean answer would kill the question entirely.

She's done evil and its not justifiable. But it's not her fault she became this way, and she needs help just like people in real life with mental conditions who do horrible things. They still deserve help. Those two things aret mutually exclusive. also think the meaning of psychopathy, its causes, and the way psychopaths actually behave is being misread in this conversation ngl

[rare condor]

[haughty linden]

we really need to stop calling Crazy mita a psychopath xD

if she was actually one, she would be hallow

[rare condor]

Shes a cutie pie who needs a hug and a kiss in the forehead

And scolding, correction, repentace too ngl

[haughty linden]

she needs the bonk!

the bonk of repentance

[rare condor]

Yes

[waxen abyss]

Yes, yes, yes, I completely agree with you on that.

She needs help, just a hug and understanding everything, so she can be happy and smile brightly again, not falsely, but genuinely."

[spring harbor]

You're not wrong with your analysis, but I believe that's just the surface narrative.
I'd suggest that you give the game another go when you have the time, play it again.
Miside might be short, but it definitely takes multiple playthroughs to even start to make sense.
I've only bought the game and played it myself after watching other people's playthroughs that got me thinking if there's something more to it that they've missed.
Turns out there's a lot of hidden metaphors, symbolism, clues in dialogue that is easily dismissible as pointless yapping.
It's a meta-game. Don't treat things too literally.
I think the contradictions are there to point you to the right answers, to make you question your own conclusions.

-"At first, you dread her : she's a freaky murderer that has ruined so many people's lives. But nuance was put where it should not have been (she shouldn't have been given a justification)."

I sort of get what you mean lol, this was me at first too.
It really do be like: "She murders everyone for seemingly no reason, why the hell does the game still want me to sympathize with her?"
I believe that "justification" is there as something to reel you in, to make you second guess her otherwise purely evil intentions.
If it wasn't there there'd be nothing to latch onto, no reason to even play the devil's advocate.
It'd be a story about a one dimensional villain that 100% deserves to get deleted.
You're not meant to justify what she did. Just try to find out if she's really insane.

-"What's shown throughout the game isn't her emotional distress, it's her rampage."
-"My point is, if she is emotionally wounded, then show it!"

Miside won't show it to you directly, that's the whole gimmick, it wants you to search for it.
It's like playing with puzzles except someone hid the pieces and told you there's no puzzle.
It takes a goofy ahh mentality to still wanna play I guess, If that's not your thing, I can't blame you XD.

Crazy Mita won't tell you why she's like that.

Crazy Mita:
"Why don't YOU tell me why I'm like this?"

-"She feels no empathy whatsoever, kills and ruins anyone who doesn't go her way."

Still, I feel like some of the dialogue contradicts that:

Crazy Mita:
"You locked yourself in a box of your own free will, and you refuse to come out!"
"All because your world is full of pain, suffering, danger..."
[...]
"Do you realize what nightmare I pulled you out of?"
"In your world, a snap of your fingers can't even move a chair..."
"Yet, a snap of the right fingers can erase entire cities and lives off the map!"

-"My point is the game shows us a questionable system and never questions it"

Because it wants YOU to question it, to understand what the Miside's players couldn't.
To taste Crazy Mita's "contrasting worldview" for yourself.

[waxen abyss]

Bravo

[proven creek]

too much philosophizing going on in this chat, where are all the schizo docs

[cold fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/writing-fire-bro-how-bro-felt-gif-8015564281503585223

[serene token]

Honestly, I think you just didn't understand what I said. I'm feeling very misunderstood here.

[serene token]

I don't expect nuance from a horror game/story, I expect a true villain, a terrifying one, she spectacularly fails at it. You don't try to sympathise with the Slender Man, do you? You don't try to advocate the Slender Man, do you? Welp, it seemed to be following the same path, until the chapter "Being Candid" that is. Her credibility is shattered by poor justifications, will not go over why said justification is poor for the 100th time.

[serene token]

Again, what's shown until Being Candid is her rampage. Then she's given poor justifications, misplaced and poor nuance. By show it, I mean first of all give a coherent justification. Following said justification, we'd have dozens and dozens of dummies ruining the world of MiSide. And after the coherent justification is given, show it, not through a few dialogues at the end, either through flashbacks or progressively during the story.

[serene token]

These dialogues are rather a last attempt at convincing Player 1 to stay, or at least to make him doubt his decision. And in the end, he decides not to listen, and she kills her by taking the cartridge off the console, only proving my point : she kills anyone not going her way.

[serene token]

Then, if the game really wants us to question it, that is terribly made. Not only does the game prove the system is right through the character of Crazy Mita, but it never actually gives the player a significant choice to make regarding the system. In fact, you embody Player 1 who does not even care about the system, never questions it, and just wants to leave the world of MiSide as fast as possible. Nothing is made so that the player questions the system, everything is made to justify it and deflect it from the player's attention.

[serene token]

I've gone through the game multiple times, I have thought it through, thank you mate... lol

[serene token]

So you need extra info from the developers to make sense out of the story, to fill the holes in the plot. This is plot vagueness.

She cartridges players out of frustration : they don't want to stay with her, so she'll force them to do so, even if it is through making them unconscious objects. A jolly collection of dead bodies.

[bronze pawn]

lore is loring

[serene token]

I'd argue it is a narrative failure because it kills the credibility of Crazy Mita as a villain 100% sure, with no guarantee that people will sympathise (since it is only halfway done).

To clarify regarding what I meant regarding your first phrasing of the question the game asks according to you. I meant that it sounded like an ability check rather than a philosophical question. You can either see the consciousness and genuine need in something that you wouldn't expect from, or you can't : this is an ability check, not a philosophical question.

Now if you meant : should you extend moral principles to beings that don't seem to follow moral principles themselves? Well there are stakes. If you choose not to extend moral principles to them, you make ethics relative by implying some deserve unspeakable treatment like being a slave and some don't. If you choose to extend moral principles to them, then you apply moral principles universally, which would ignore circumstances, so things like self-defence wouldn't be tolerated. These are the stakes, and the game shows them both through Crazy Mita.

The game might show that you can't simply answer with a yes or a no, but never gives an answer. It sounds like : uh well, really interesting question but no idea how to answer, I'll pass. Like come on, bloody risk it! The question is obviously complicated, you don't need a full cryptic game to show it is complicated. The point behind raising a question and showing why you can't pick the two extremes, is to actually find a third answer, not to leave the question pending. And again, if the game were about letting each player answer their way, then why is there no consequent choice at the end of the game, after the stakes where displayed? Why not letting the player choose? No, the question is left pending, and the player is not even allowed to give their own answer. For example, the game could have let the player choose whether to remove Crazy Mita or not.

Or anything else, really, just give a choice. Otherwise you can't tell this is about letting the player answer the question.

Just an example.

An example for a third answer could be : unlimited tolerance would destroy tolerance itself, therefore intolerance should not be tolerated whenever it threatens to destroy tolerance. (Karl Popper's position in The Open Society and its Enemies)

[serene token]

And regarding the last paragraph, well this is your answer to the question, your point of view. I don't share it. To me, the place of murderers like Crazy Mita remains straight in prison. She deserves no help, only to be put where she can never murder again, no matter whether she has a mental disability or a poor moral conscience. But I don't mean it in the way you shouldn't extend moral principles to her, I'm not saying she deserves a brutal death, prison does extend moral principles to prisoners to some extent.

[fresh sun]

oh man i thought we were done with this convo 😅

Ok look like i said previously , Miside is a game that doesn't give stuff to you straight, it has caused a lot of frustration to a bunch of people and they could have put some stuff in the forefront for sure, but still crazy Mita's role as the villian doesn't outright get ruined by justification being slowly given, like i said before it's the context that the game wants to give you not reasons to symathise

The devs clearly didn't want for crazy Mita to be like SA-X , killing things or taking info completely coldly though she is far from being completely reademable, though we have to see her good side in peaceful mode to make a full assesment

[waxen abyss]

It will continue, even after 100 years.

[fresh sun]

ok let's not talk about rehabilitation , ngl a lot of people aren't good with such a subject

[fresh sun]

as for the game asking questions but not giving answers, well apart from the enviromental storytelling and the fact it wants you to think, we still have updates coming up, some questions will be answered

[serene token]

I'm a very polite fella, I answer when people send me messages 😌

[fresh sun]

Miside didn't use traditional means to tell the story of its villian and their worldbuidling, there are no flashbacks or expositions on how the world of Miside works in every level (emphasis on every). This aproach might not be enjoyable for a lot of people but i personally prefer it

[serene token]

Then, they shouldn't have done it halfway

[serene token]

Sure

[serene token]

Yea I hope so, I'm looking forward to peaceful mode either way

[fresh sun]

it wasn't done halfway , crazy Mita is more to the end of being a pure villian than she is a completely readamable one, again player 1 literally says "You are the one who shoudln't exist" so the game through player 1 gives us the answer (at least for the escape ending) that crazy Mita is not reademable

the tragic backstory is there for context not to make the character tragic

[waxen abyss]

I liked it too, because it really lets fans' imaginations run wild, especially the ones who are into out-there theories

[serene token]

Whether you like it or not, this is superficial

[fresh sun]

some people should really see qna before making theories though

[fresh sun]

that's subjective, i have seen wayy more superficial ways to do worldbuilding

[serene token]

Through Player 1, the game entirely justifies the twisted system, nice message

[fresh sun]

no dude , player 1 doesn't JUSTIFY the system he rejects crazy Mita, there's a difference

it's like saying "because you hate this specific prisoner, you agree with the prison system he is held within"

[serene token]

Throughout the entire game, you're shown reasons why the system is, and eventually it ends on Player 1 rejecting the only being that escaped the system's judgement (to the extent she is not heaped up in desolated places like the other dummies). By doing this, Player 1 simply finishes the system's job, except he couldn't remove her nor lock her up. You could say she is the product of the system, the proof it is malfunctioning, except she's the only exception, the problem wasn't the system itself, rather that it couldn't get rid of her.

[serene token]

That's just not it... Crazy Mita would be a criminal that escaped prison rather than a prisoner. And Player 1, by saying "They're not the problem! You're the one who shouldn't exist!", gives the same judgement as the system : she's a criminal and she should be in prison. The system's sole error was to not properly get rid of her.

I'm seeing you writing, don't you dare pull up a qna screenshot mate 😭 🤚

[fresh sun]

look if crazy Mita did nothing wrong and was just really weird and quirky i would give you that, player 1 rejecting her would be just justifying the system that rejected her.
HOWEVER crazy Mita is a VILLIAN , one that has small redeemable qualities, at least until peaceful mode comes out, but still a VILLIAN.The player doesn't reject her because he is selfish or wants to agree with the system, he rejects her because Crazy Mita has KNOWINGLY hurt people that didn't deserve it. He says "they are not the problem" because he sees what the other Mitas went through, player 1 clearly rejects crazy Mitas ideologies not the fact she got discarded, he never says it was right for them to discard you he says you shouldn't exist after crazy killed kind , Mila in front of the guy while also personally tormenting him
The game is just affirming what player 1's bio said through dialogue
Also saying "don't you dare pull up qna screenshots" is pretty bad will for a discussion of how Miside failed in its writing , since the devs have clarified and the game has verified that clarification , i would understand "do not paste the same screenshots" but not wanting screenshots at all means you aren't willing to discuss things less subjectively

[serene token]

We're talking about the story and its flaws, it is pretty easy to let them clear narrative ambiguity and narrative vagueness

If narrative ambiguity and narrative vagueness are here in the first place, it is for reasons

[fresh sun]

you perception of the story might not be a correct one or an accurate one, again there's a difference between "i don't like the apporach they took to tell the story for this part of it" and saying "this part of the story is just superficial and bad"

[serene token]

It is superficial and lazy to justify a character through only a few dialogues at the end of the game, you can't argue that

As I said, nuance should have been either progressively introduced throughout the story, or introduced through flashbacks

And it should be coherent

[fresh sun]

they don't justify crazy Mita's actions, they are giving context there's a difference. Someone explaining why someone killed a person it doesn''t mean they are agreeing with the reason for it

[serene token]

Context justifies her actions, whether it is acceptable justification or not

[fresh sun]

You wanting for there to be flashbacks is a preference , i am not saying it wouldn't be better for some things, but Miside not doing that doesn't mean its different apporach is bad inherently

[serene token]

This is not about preferences, this is about remaining coherent and not doing last minute changes in a character's building

[fresh sun]

not context gives you the reason why it happened, it doesn't justify the person who did it

[serene token]

A reason is a justification, good or bad, doesn't matter

[serene token]

The system rejected her, failed to lock her up, then Crazy Mita justifies the system, and eventually, Player 1 makes the same judgement as the system. As in, the system was right to reject her after all, she shouldn't be out in the open. The reason why Player 1 rejects the system is directly caused by how Crazy Mita justifies the system herself.

[fresh sun]

it IS about preference since i understood the devs' intent from my first playthrough regarding the bad actions of crazy Mita . The devs added enviromental storytelling, indirect confirmation and an outright reveal at the end. Kind Mita, the player and even the state that the Mitas that met crazy are in ,shows that crazy is NOT justfied in what she did.
Me explaining "the killer got really heated and also due to past jealousy killed their coworker after they started a discussion over work" me saying the reasons why they did sth doesn't mean i am agreeing since that hatred and jealousy can be unfounded or completely delusional.

[fresh sun]

again even if crazy Mita is justifying the system , player1's rejection is over her direct actions not because of her nature as a bugged prototype

[serene token]

How can you say it is about preference whether to properly introduce the context or simply mention it through dialogues

[fresh sun]

if someone has problems with their personality , you disliking them doing bad things doesn't mean you are agree with the societal system that looked down on them. If crazy Mita didn't go to such violent lengths to fight back the system player 1 woudln't have rejected them

There are dummy mitas that don't have red eyes that are completely dosile, they got rejected as well but player1 isn't agreeing with the system about them

[serene token]

How do you know

[fresh sun]

i am a fan of player 1 , according to what i have read what the devs said and also me hearing and seeing his dialogue, he clearly doesn't have a problem with the chill Mitas

he wants to help the other Mitas break free from crazy Mita's oppression, crazy Mita is a bad seperate from the system

[serene token]

Every rejected dummy he encounters outright tries to kill him

[serene token]

This is not about the chosen ones

[fresh sun]

because they HAVE introduced the context , it was jsut not in a direct way, or they could simply patch things up in an update

[fresh sun]

nope

[serene token]

There's a difference between properly introducing context and simply mentioning it, I feel like we're looping here

[fresh sun]

there are ones in Short hair Mita's chapter , BEFORE you leave her house but AFTER playing the arcade that don't attack the player

[serene token]

They were not rejected

[fresh sun]

the context for why crazy Mita is what she is was introduced well enough

[fresh sun]

they were , no skin eguals rejection

[serene token]

Only the dummies past the door are the rejected ones, as Short-Haired Mita says

[serene token]

They just didn't go through the test yet

[fresh sun]

the dummies you meet after you talk with short hair about the arcade are rejected, she mentions the violent ones because you need to look out for them

[fresh sun]

mate you can literally reject dummies without them having red eyes, the game implies there are rejected dummies that aren't violent

again i feel like your preference for stuff to be put in the forefront is why you dislike how crazy Mita was handled so much

Miside just does things in the background , it's more enganging for me personally since you can think about why or how things are without the game giving it to you on a silver platter. However as i have said before i agree that some things could have been done better for crazy Mita.

[serene token]

Yet this is exactly what's being done, you're served on a silver platter. There is no build up, no proper flashback.

[fresh sun]

ok i will eat rn brb

[serene token]

And again, this is exactly why I criticise said justification, or "context" as you like to call it.

[waxen abyss]

I agree, too, because the minigame itself had characters with red eyes, which you meet after talking to short-haired Mita, and regular ones, but only 1-3 bones more. The version was great, but the emotion system, which didn't work or simply resulted in a perfect scan, forced you to throw them in the trash. It was painful.

[serene token]

Bon appetit

[serene token]

I don't know what you're on about regarding the aggressive dummies only being those with red eyes. Because firstly, Short-Haired Mita does not categorise them. And secondly, the first aggressive dummy you meet, the one that bites you, ironically doesn't have red eyes. The dummies you'd trust would bite you at the first occasion.

[serene token]

This is endless icl

[mighty glen]

are they still working on the peacefull mod?

[fresh sun]

yeah i am not saying short hair Mita didn't refer to the ones that are aggresive towards the player as "rejected". However as me and @waxen abyss has said there are instances that you have to reject a dummy because they had incorrect bone count or incorect emotional responces. Short hair Mita used "faulty" and "rejected" for those dummies yes , she isn't incorrect, but that doesn't mean ALL rejected dummies behave like this

Short hair Mita said it herself, "you think i showed you that for the lols"

so the dummy arcade and what it shows is pretty important

[serene token]

But this proves some dummies are both aggressive and don't have red eyes, but sure, some rejected dummies aren't faulty. Though, the system is proven to be right to a certain extent, as the character that embodies the critique of the system only proves it be right. My point is, if it were a critique of the system rather than a justification, then Crazy Mita wouldn't be so controversial. Which links again with what I've been saying since the very beginning : by trying to be everything at the same time, Crazy Mita fails at everything.

She can't be a terrific murderer, a critique of the system and tragic at the same time. This just doesn't work.

[fresh sun]

ok here: Crazy Mita is a hypocrite she never would be a critique to the system because she is self absorbed with a GOD COMPLEX . What the game tried to do, which it mostly succeeded in, was to potray a selfish, manipulative killer who is resentful to the system that made her the way she is, but she is also amplifying its worst aspects. The game by giving her the backstory of being a faulty dummy it clarifies the "how" she became the way she is but , until peaceful mode comes out, it never justifies the why of what she has done.
The game wants for us to reject crazy Mita for what she does not for what she is she would be less redeemable if the game wanted for us to reject her for what she is. Heck the fact the system rejects UNVIOLENT dummies , that has like 10 less bone count or doesn't show 1 emotion well shows that it is in fact cruel in certain aspects, however again crazy Mita is unique . Again i used the prison example because i disagree with how inmates are handled in a bunch of countries, so even if i think some people deserve to be imprisoned it doesn't mean i agree with the system as a whole

[fresh sun]

i feel like you wanted a slasher villian and because that expectation wasn't met you are dissapointed. There's nothing wrong with wanting that type of villian @serene token but saying the game failled naratively because your expectations weren't met is a subjective critique.

The system's fault wasn't that it "failed to get rid of her" and it using kind Mita and player 1 to do so, but it was that it created sentient life and treated it like disposable trash. Crazy Mita’s error was using that trauma as an excuse to become a god-complex murderer. We as players are supposed to reject both.

@waxen abyss since you are reacting to my responces what's your perspective on this topic ?

nvm i guess xD

[waxen abyss]

Honestly, I agree with you more on everything you've said. For example, Ark wanted one thing from the game, with the main character. At first, after buying the game, I also thought about the main character, considering what she did to others. But as the game got closer to the end, I started to read into and listen to what she was saying. Of course, I'd like to say something more +- specific to her questions, but even so, after the second playthrough and more, I wish Mitya happiness, hugs, and love

[fresh sun]

eh i want punishment for what she did for me personally but not for it to be outright deletion or a memory reset . Anyways i can see why people might take her side if the good side of her within peaceful mode is compelling but even then what she did is still present, it can't go away

There's a reason why kind Mita is my favorite Mita tbh xD

[serene token]

"Crazy Mita is a hypocrite she never would be a critique to the system because she is self absorbed with a GOD COMPLEX."

Your point is, because the critique is obviously hypocritical, this isn't a critique. But she does criticise the system, she embodies a critique of the system whether you like it or not, whether it is good or bad. The critique being clumsy doesn't make it any less of a critique. And this is also core part of my critique, the game shows us a problem : the system has great reasons to be, there are aggressive dummies, yet it is also unfair at the same time. The game shows us a problem, and never propose any answer. Which leads to the following, awkward conclusion : well, we can't really remove the system, but it's obviously unethical and malfunctioning. And I'll quote why this is a problem, because I really cba to repeat the same thing for the 100th time :
"The game might show that you can't simply answer with a yes or a no, but never gives an answer. It sounds like : uh well, really interesting question but no idea how to answer, I'll pass. Like come on, bloody risk it! The question is obviously complicated, you don't need a full cryptic game to show it is complicated. The point behind raising a question and showing why you can't pick the two extremes, is to actually find a third answer, not to leave the question pending. And again, if the game were about letting each player answer their way, then why is there no consequent choice at the end of the game, after the stakes where displayed? Why not letting the player choose? No, the question is left pending, and the player is not even allowed to give their own answer. For example, the game could have let the player choose whether to remove Crazy Mita or not."

---

"to portray a selfish, manipulative killer who is resentful to the system that made her the way she is, but she is also amplifying its worst aspects"

Yet here's the thing with this : her credibility absolutely crashes down. And being the amount of people praising her, calling her cute and justifying everything she did, does, and will do, even though in the end, she's a murderer. And as I just said when answering the previous quote, the fact she both justifies the system's existence and shows its flaws could be a good idea, but only if the game were actually going to go all the way through with it and conclude.

---

"The game by giving her the backstory of being a faulty dummy it clarifies the "how" she became the way she is but , until peaceful mode comes out, it never justifies the why of what she has done."

Over just being the "how", it is, alongside how the system is, the justification SHE delivers.

---

"The game wants for us to reject crazy Mita for what she does not for what she is she would be less redeemable if the game wanted for us to reject her for what she is."

She is obviously an aggressive prototype of sorts. You could argue she is different, because she doesn't outright jumps any moving being. But honestly, it is rather the same, she doesn't like anyone, no one goes her way, and she jumps anyone she doesn't like or doesn't go her way. Sometimes, it is through toying and manipulation as she did with Player 1, and sometimes it is the brutal way, the way you'd expect from aggressive rejected dummies, as she did with Mila.

---

"Heck the fact the system rejects UNVIOLENT dummies, that has like 10 less bone count or doesn't show 1 emotion well shows that it is in fact cruel in certain aspects, however again crazy Mita is unique."

There seems to be a little misunderstanding. I never said the system was ethical. All I said was that it is justified by aggressive dummies, and that according to Player 1, said dummies (like Crazy Mita) should be discarded. I get your point, the system rejects innocent dummies because they cannot match expressions or poses, this is unfair. But it is also shown to be necessary, because of aggressive dummies like Crazy Mita : the aggressive dummies need to be heaped up somewhere they can't hurt anybody. And the game does not show any better solution than this. I'll not comment on prisons again as this is getting controversial, but I understand the relevance of it.

---

"i feel like you wanted a slasher villain and because that expectation wasn't met you are disappointed"

Wowwwww! I didn't meant a bloody slasher villain lmao. I think it would have been better as said nuance only raises questions that the game dodges when it comes to answer them or letting the player answer. BUT, this isn't what I wanted whatsoever. Villains can be complex yet purely evil, for example Johan Liebert in Monster.

"saying the game failed naratively because your expectations weren't met is a subjective critique."

I'm not saying this, I'm saying she raises a bunch of questions for the game to dodge them. This isn't subjective.

See you in 2 days fam

[fresh sun]

https://tenor.com/view/captain-america-i-can-do-this-all-day-marvel-gif-14017033

[spring harbor]

You keep saying that Crazy Mita justifies the system in place with her rampage.
The system doesn't even check for violent behaviour though. It checks for compliance and lack of "red eyes".
Other rejects are aggressive despite lacking them.
Almost as if their frustration was the result of the system, not the other way around.

[fresh sun]

ehhh correction, only dummy Mitas with red eyes are aggressive , been a while since i played the game but i remember their red eyes quite clearly

[spring harbor]

Not the one in the chair.

He even bites you despite you looking directly at him.

[serene token]

.

[fresh sun]

hold on let me check

[spring harbor]

Also pretty sure there are regular dummies chasing you along the red eyed ones. (in the first chase section)

The red eyed ones are noticeably faster.

[fresh sun]

ahhhh ok it's a lighting thing , in good lighting their red eyes don't show

[serene token]

Crazy Mita's eyes show in good lighting

[fresh sun]

crazy is unique , but yeah some dummies don't show the red eyes clearly

[covert storm]

there are regular dummies chasing you in the ghostly mita's wardrobe chase as well

[fresh sun]

ahhh i see

[serene token]

Yet no Mita that was validated by the system is straight up physically aggressive, so the system's selection isn't as baseless as you may think. This is a trait of the rejected ones only. And I'll go further by affirming that every single dummy with red eyes is aggressive, and they do seem unstable and menacing during the test. This is a big assumption that just every single aggressive dummy is this way only out of frustration. And even so, if said frustration is indeed caused by the system, then why is Crazy Mita the only one like this? If they're all so frustrated, why don't we have hordes of dummies destroying everything? This is a blurry mess.

[spring harbor]

What about Ugly Mita?
The mannequins can't rebel because they can't pass the "purifying light" I'd assume.
I'm guessing Crazy Mita somehow found a way around.

"they do **seem **unstable and menacing"

[serene token]

Ugly Mita was created in the very first version of the game, before the system was in place, before the developers decided to make the game cute and cozy. The proof for this is that there is only a single house index in her version, and none is being produced (you don't see any Creepy Mita in Short-Haired Mita's house).

Regarding the purifying light, again, how could Crazy Mita pass it? And if a way around was found, how come she's the only one after nearly 20 versions to have found one?

[serene token]

They're 100% unstable, and seem menacing. Indeed.

And we're proven right : every dummy with red eyes is aggressive.

[fresh sun]

You’re right to point out the dummy in the chair and the slower chase dummies. I was too narrow with using the "red eyes" characteristic i guess. Some aggressive dummies look normal for sure.
Again however the devs have confirmed that dummies and Mitas have feelings , so some of them who are less glitched being aggressive does make sense, though like i said there ARE non violent dummy Mitas (the first dummy Mitas you meet after you go down from the arcade game DON'T attack you).
The system is there for players to get their Mitas, but its coldness IS NOT COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED. Again the system rejects Mitas with certain criteria, crazy Mita met that criteria and was rejected. Other discarded Mitas didn't emergence full inteligence like crazy Mita has hence why there isn't chaos everywhere.
According to the qna 8.18 , her sentience was an "extraordinary accident." The system’s cruelty , her discardment, is what gave that sentient accident the motive to become a murderer. You cannot use the "monster" to justify the "abuse" that created the monster in the first place. The system discards a lot of innocent, docile dummies , the arcade game shows as much, just to find a "correct" Mita, even if it's correct with the aggressive ones . That is objectively unethical, regardless of whether Crazy Mita is also evil.
I searched for what you were saying about "Monster" and an anime needs to do certain things due to it being not a playable medium so it makes sense the villian was potrayed differently and heck it doesn't even fully support your claim from the few things i have seen.
Also creepy Mita is stupid the game clearly potrays that fact (no shade to creepy Mita fans btw xD) so she obviously wouldn't do anything towards the system by herself, though she is different compared to the dummies.
Again aihasato doesn't make "traditional" games, we didn't get a "choice" to side with crazy Mita or destroy the system because at the end of the day player 1 wants to leave.

[spring harbor]

(I'm pretty confident about this but don't quote me )
An interesting thing to note is that the "red eyed" dummies are fully compliant. They always pass the conditions, don't know what this implies honestly.

[fresh sun]

ah so they pass the bone count and expression tests?

[spring harbor]

always (as far as I remember)

[fresh sun]

well it might be a more fundamental behavioral problem then, again crazy Mita is unique , it's implied that the discarded Mitas didn't develop inteligence like her

though it's interesting they know how to pass the test

[waxen abyss]

Perhaps it couldn't develop because the developers wanted to do one thing and then changed their minds, leaving it as a constructor similar to Anita.

[fresh sun]

yeah, to be honest the dummy arcade game is pretty important, it shows both that non violent dummies can get discarded but also that the red eyes have stranger behavioral problems

@grave schooner ahhhhhh

ok it got deleted

freaking scams bro

[waxen abyss]

yee

[bright warren]

[spring harbor]

Also none of the dummies below 1.0 have the red eyes in the arcade machine. (again, don't quote me but I remember trying hard to get one)

[fresh sun]

so it was a major bug before release that's interesting

[covert storm]

The problem is that we don't that they were aggressive before rejection or become aggressive cuz they were rejected. In fact we know almost nothing about most of the mitas, cuz we spend like 5 minutes with them, then move on to the next.
Same could be said about the system as well. We were introduced to a clearly messed up system, yet it isn't elaborated on (or portrayed as a bad thing by the narrative). None of the mitas (other than crazy mita) or player1 ever even mentions the system.

The game flipflops between a simple story of: "You are chased by crazy anime girl and meet other anime girls while running from her", and a more complex story of unfair systems, sad backstories and psychological traumas. And this 2 isn't compatible with each other, so what we get in the end, thanks to the lack of commitment to one these, is a mess of a story. In other words the devs tried to ride two horse at the same and ended up falling to the ground.

[waxen abyss]

I agree, because we spend so little time with the other Mitas and interact with them very little, although we would really like to get to know everyone better. One thing is clear: Mita will perform on stage, have fun with anyone and anywhere, she will have a cat at home, or she will simply stop and play with cats she sees on the street, petting them. Mila will spend more time somewhere in the library with various books and a sign saying "Carrot War," and she will also love nature, especially butterflies.

[serene token]

Yes, you're right. We're in the middle of narrative vagueness, and I try to be as factual as possible, I try to assume as little as possible. The game tries to be more profound by showing us a malfunctioning system, proving it has a reason to be, but also proving that it is unethical. Yet it never goes all the way through with it, it never pushes this idea to the end. I already talked about why Crazy Mita has to be somewhat justifiable : she's the headline of the game, players need just a few small reasons to latch onto and desperately try to justify her. We can't have Creepy Mita as the headline of the game lmao. But as I've said multiple times, it completely ruins Crazy Mita's credibility.

[true owl]

Yo hi friend, what are you doing?

[serene token]

Well, if they're so compliant, for what other reason than being dangerous could the system reject them?

[serene token]

Yep, hence why I consider the character development a catalogue of pre-made archetypes

[spring harbor]

The system rejects them for "red eyes". What they represent is imo unclear and only implies aggression.

The moment one of them becomes approved, the red eyes immediately vanish along with the "menacing" behaviour.

[serene token]

You sure?

[spring harbor]

I mean, have you not approved one? XD

[fresh sun]

ah that's interesting

[spring harbor]

Yes. After approval they become a regular skinned Mita

[serene token]

I would not approve a menacing-looking dummy indeed

[true owl]

Guys, can you tell me how this all started?

[spring harbor]

Fair

[serene token]

I posted a ggdocs regarding my point of view on character development, we derived to talking about Crazy Mita, and it's been on-going ever since

This was a few days ago

[fresh sun]

ark made a doc some days ago , we've been debating stuff he disliked since

[spring harbor]

Lore chat has been eating good since then.

[serene token]

Haha real

[true owl]

Is there a link? So I can go and read it, I'm too lazy to scroll up.

[serene token]

Sure, might not be fully updated though

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P0C-taf0CRgsabJeMr19uglA2YSqiK5TJKBM2n8UFL0/edit?usp=sharing

read major flaw

[serene token]

regarding Crazy Mita

[true owl]

Well, good luck reading it.

[serene token]

I didn't forget you Angel, I'll just answer tomorrow because your message is longer

[fresh sun]

ok honestly runtime is expected to be smaller , Aihasato is just 2 guys, but i feel like you and other people have been dismissing characterisation that was put in those short moments

[fresh sun]

fine you can answer later, i feel like you are still arguing that the writing is bad instead of just disliking the way Umeerai and Makencat did things

[serene token]

@true owl for a more updated version of my point of view regarding Crazy Mita, read from here, will probably be quicker and it clarifies a few common misunderstandings I've had

[true owl]

I have read this document and I have a personal question for you.

[serene token]

I think making her this way was a objectively bad decision, yea, this isn't outright the very worst thing I have seen

[true owl]

Do you think that if they make a novella that describes the characters from top to bottom, for example, Cap, Mila, and other mitas, it will at least save the miside?

[covert storm]

I'm sorry, but contradictions, overly vagueness, and 0 character development is bad writing

[fresh sun]

ah great a 3v1

sigh

[fresh sun]

ah ok this lowkey might be a "always use the same animation" type of thing

[spring harbor]

You mean the devs got lazy?

[fresh sun]

ok calling it "lazy" outright is a bit insulting to the devs, they just used the same animation for when a skin is applied

[spring harbor]

Why would they do that though?

[fresh sun]

to save up on time, they are an indie team

[spring harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/doubt-gif-13250124

I don't buy it.

[fresh sun]

oh well it works either way for me, it's either a cut down on dev time thing or it's a neat fact in the dummy arcade game

[serene token]

MiSide has to choose. They can either be a waifu market, so a "catalogue of pre-made archetypes", or a story raising and answering philosophical questions, or a story developing all its characters, but then with less characters. MiSide cannot be all three at the same time. To me, choosing to mostly keep the most promising characters to develop like Crazy Mita and Mila, and barely show the others, would have been the way. This way, the story could have had much more developed (and endearing) characters, and it could have answered the philosophical questions it raised through its characters, that would now be well developed, just like Crazy Mita embodies both that : the system has a reason to be, but that it is unfair. The game has explored that both extremes do not work, all it needs now is to find a third answer. One stone, two birds.

[true owl]

Randy time

[serene token]

Example for a definitive answer the game could give

[serene token]

More thorough explanation on answering the questions the game raises

Off to eat, cya

[fresh sun]

not all Mitas have nerrative importance , heck not all cartidges have nerrative importance either, for the most part. They want to show the player having a journey towards the core . Kind Mita, crazy Mita, Mila and player 1 have good enough depth. I feel like because you want the story to go a certain way and the game to do certain things you are dismissing entirely that they way they did things isn't fundamentaly wrong, people enjoy Miside and its story for what it is after all, we wouldn't be discussing lore to this extent if this wasn't the case

again the game CAN answer those questions in a future update that is already being developed

[true owl]

Then maybe we could make it as a visual novel?

[fresh sun]

@covert storm @serene token i think you guys attribute to vagueness as unnecessary pading . While that can be the case for some things i've seen, even in Miside, Miside handles vagueness pretty well for the most part and again A LOT OF QUESTIONS were answered by the devs for things that the playerbase couldn't understand really well

The devs worked hard to make something coherent , some holes around crazy Mita are there for sure, but what they wanted to do PAYED OFF

if Miside , a majorly story based game, had incosistencies left and right, worldbuilding that contradicted other world buulding and characters just saying things, it would have died off way quicker that what it did

A lot of people just don't like the stories they experience to be overly subtle because they have things to do irl, or other games that got popular that they want to play . I am not saying not wanting things to be subtle is wrong , but Miside has handled its subtlety well for the most part

[serene token]

If the game answers through its characters, sure. If the game answers through the player with a decisive narrative choice at the end of the game, nope.

[true owl]

That's what I meant about the first option.

[rapid wraith]

Hi

[serene token]

The game can focus on character development and answer through a choice of the player anyway.

For example, it could oppose multiple answers conveyed through different characters, and make you choose which to support through different ending paths.

Even better, it could go one step further by exploring the consequences of each answer. But honestly, this isn't even needed, just a very good addition.

[serene token]

I'm not forgetting you Angel, will take the time to answer you tomorrow or the day after tomorrow depending on the time I have tomorrow

[fresh sun]

sure

[serene token]

Take it as special attention : more time is spent answering you lol

[fresh sun]

lol

[rare condor]

1 Its on the lore, its on the game, the devs need to clarify because not everyone gets it, its normal process of anything that touches philosophical themes. The distinction worth making is between vagueness that obscures and vagueness that demands active reading. The devs clarifications exist because people askd not because the game is incoherent without them. The information is already in the game like in Ghostly's dialogue, the cartridge logs, Being Candid, its not a plot hole, that's a reading level requirement.

2 Yes, it's a desperate preservation mechanism from someone who has no other framework

3 Its a philosophical question that simply hasn't been answered satisfactorily by centuries of philosophical tradition. Its only natural the game won't answer it and leave the subjective answer to the viewer. As humans we don't have the ability to check we can't define reason to begin with. As currently stands: if its human it has reason, if its not human it hasn't reason, and if it has reason its human, and if it hasn't reason its not human. Which makes it a serious problem with the development of artificial intelligence and previously with the question of extraterrestrial life. Other media has attempted to answer that question and ends in the same position of philosophical humility.

4 You are treating the game as a different subgenre. Its not shock horror, its psychological. The horror of MiSide doesnt lie in her chasing you with a chainsaw, it lies precisely in the uneasy questions of consciousness, looping, enjoyment and free will.

5 Your argument about morals doesn't sustain itself, unfortunately I can't elaborate more because that enters a part of the discussion that can get accounts banned, but I can recommend a research topic "Nordic prison system"

6 You do have a choice tho and its given to you at the start. Either stay or leave. The game doesn't give you a dramatic final choice because the argument is that you've already been making it repeatedly throughout the entire game. Every time you leave a Mita you're making it, in my opinion The ending isn't withholding agency it's the consequence of how you used it. funnily enough mostof the time you can choose to stay only when you meet the criteria and chances are, yeah wont be your first playthrough (loops everywhere autistic screeching )

And repressive tolerance grows into authoritarian system anyways, Marcuse proposed it, it causes problems nevertheless, but again not particularly allowed to discuss this. Crazy's reality is a pirsion of sorts, she never had much options, she was put in isolation and confinement before she even gained consciousness, the system already charged her as guilty

[rare condor]

Imo, one of my problems with modern media is their compulsion to explain literally everything and not give place to interpretation and little details that are critical, specially when compared to classics. I guess this is why i love MiSide so much

[rare condor]

This is not factual tho, some dummies don't try to kill the player

[haughty linden]

i mean crazy mita's red eyes also vanishes when she gets the skin lol

but her behavior doesn't change

so i don't see how it would be any different if a red eyed dummy was accepted

[spring harbor]

The difference is that she never received the skin through approval.

She is still a mannequin.

[haughty linden]

there is a reason why red eyed mita's are rejected, game implied that they are taboo to the world

[fresh sun]

yeah true she "stole" the skin

[spring harbor]

And that reason is never clarified. Red = X.

[fresh sun]

they became taboo after some were accepted i think otherwise there wouldn't be a need to write "red eyes bad" though i guess it might be an arcade thing that doesn't represent the actual creation of Mitas ,it isn't specified i guess

[haughty linden]

this implies something about them

[fresh sun]

ahhh where did you get that xD

[spring harbor]

It's the notes on the wall in the arcade machine.

normally too far to make out what they say

[fresh sun]

ohhhh yeah they reminded me of sth for sure my brain is just running out of juice i debated for literal hours xD

[fresh sun]

but yeah the red eyes are for sure pointed out in the arcade machine

[haughty linden]

do keep in mind guys the arcade machine isn't truly how they accept and reject mitas

we have yet to see how they Actually do testing

since the testing Crazy mita went through is likely way way different then what we were taught and shown

[waxen abyss]

And that's true, we may have only been shown a simplified version of sorting Mannequins, just like in the machine.

[fresh sun]

it's a representation hence why idk if the actual process has checks for red eyes

[waxen abyss]

Bro, I'm reading everything you've written, and it's a real pleasure to read, both for the eyes and the heart. I wanted to say something about point 3. As I see it, it's purely individual, that someone would be considered unreasonable – meaning not human. BUT! I've already decided for myself that if we're taking the game Miside into context, I will love and cherish every Mite I encounter in the story, and I will consider them much more than just code, personally. And if we consider the Mad Mite (honestly, it's unpleasant to call her that) – no matter what they say about her, for me, she's someone who is searching for her happiness and love, just a cry for help. And even knowing what she does, I won't stop loving her. Perhaps if in this world it turned out that I also ended up with her, I would talk about everything with her and accept her as she is, even realizing that she could turn me into a cartridge that she would forget over time and throw away

[fresh sun]

but this confirms that "red eyed" Mitas is a concept for sure

[waxen abyss]

It might only be considered as part of what's taken into account, and they don't always remove red-eyes

[fresh sun]

yeah

[rare condor]

I definitely agree with you in most aspects. Altho, maybe I'm projecting hard but in the first chapters, where Crazy is lovely, i see someone who wants to change for the sake of someone worth her but doesn't have the framework to do so. I see someone wounded and in the end i see someone genuinely confused about what's wrong with her, unable to articulate it. I do see in her the good she speaks of, just no framework to express it. The fact she can put on the glasses or not depending on your preference hit me particularly hard

[waxen abyss]

No matter what choice I make, she is wonderful in every way! And after every playthrough, I always choose glasses for her, because seeing how happy she is, knowing everything I can about her, simply makes me happy

[rare condor]

The system selection from my perspective is mere utilitarian, i doubt the in game devs know their creation is sentient and again, even then they have no way to know because there's no resolution to the reason problem irl. At their eyes imo the Mitas might only be a product with a convincing AI that doesn't have but mimic feelings effectively, but again this i don't know

[rare condor]

[fresh sun]

to be honest we haven't gotten much details for the in universe devs apart from crazy Mita's biased perspective, but they are a bit negligent for sure

[spring harbor]

Honestly, I never saw her as someone who wants to change.
In my eyes she wants the opposite. She desperately wants to stay this way. She doesn't want to get fixed.
She never expresses regret.
Never apologizes.
She never changes her stance, instead tries to change yours.
Even though she knows murder is wrong (my assumption going purely from the 1st TV program you watch), she doesn't even blink while killing others.
Everything else about her philosophy makes this so, idk... Out of place?
She feels like she genuinely cares and at the same time...

"What IS wrong with me?"
"I've got NO idea..." (I interpret this more as her saying: "there's nothing wrong with me" not "IDK")
"Why don't YOU tell me why I'm like this?" ("I'm sick of your judgement")

[fresh sun]

Yeah honestly while Crazy Mita has the capacity to see what she's doing is wrong she just doesn't care, might be either a side affect of her unique bugness (or potentially the red eyes) or her just being cold towards others due to her being discarded. She stills seeks validation but doesn't want people to judge her for what she is (which is hypocritical since she judges other Mitas for what they are, always putting herself as "superior")

[waxen abyss]

Even then, I think that also contributes to her humanity. After all, such individuals are not rare in our world, and they are loved, form friendships, have relationships, marry, and build lives together. My only struggle is understanding how one could possibly not regard her as human

[fresh sun]

the only way to regard any Mitas as not human is to treat their actions us just lines of code, and the only reason crazy is acting Violently is because a variable got flipped

so just treat them as code and nothing else (i 100% disagree with this perscepective and the game backs me up on this i think)

[waxen abyss]

Nah nah nah, I don't want to, I won't!" I will continue to see every Mit not just as a piece of code with words written in it, but as a personality

[haughty linden]

wouldn't be too surprised if it has to do with her nature as a Red eyed Dummy mita, they seem to be mentally unstable by nature

to a point they are pretty much corrupted Dummy mitas

[spring harbor]

Until they are approved. Then they're like 👍.

🚶‍♀️‍➡️

[haughty linden]

doubt it, not like being approved cures them of their corruption lol xD

if that was the case then the red eyed ones wouldn't be considered faulty

[sly gorge]

For me, CM is just:
« Screw humans I hate em i hate em i hate em i ha— oh my god, you actually love me? You’re my exception pogchamp! »

[haughty linden]

hmm, guess the long debate about Miside's story and Crazy mita's writing is finally over.

[sly gorge]

Just wait till it starts again someday

Then we’ll get to repeat the same things again :D

[haughty linden]

[sly gorge]

Such is the wait for the forbidden
P-word mode

[civic hill]

https://tenor.com/view/no-thanks-nooo-not-today-gif-21078893

[haughty linden]

Pacifist mode

[waxen abyss]

mmm,no

[haughty linden]

https://tenor.com/view/exhausted-goku-dragon-ball-tired-faint-gif-11726508

[rare condor]

2 or 3 days if im not mistaken

[haughty linden]

[fresh sun]

[waxen abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U1Br6iqnko

[heavy onyx]

Это была шутка на 1 апреля

[waxen abyss]

да ну

ноооуу

[heavy onyx]

Бро и ты по-моему перепутал малясь lore и mods :D

[waxen abyss]

ну как по мне отчасти в этом трейлере могли бы раскрыть миту, как из вариантов развития сюжета

[serene token]

This is not about giving a correct answer, or "satisfactorily" answer the problem as you say, this is about elaborating an answer, not just raising questions to make the game seem philosophical at first glance, to then completely dodge said questions afterwards. You might not consider the question unanswered, but dozens and dozens of philosophers have developed and defended new positions on the matter. You can never say a philosophical question is fully answered : new answers will keep coming endlessly. As you said, this is a millennium-old question : we don't need MiSide to remind us that the answer is complex and that extremes do not fix the core issue. If it were a philosophical game, it would elaborate and illustrate an answer to the questions it raises, or elaborate multiple and build up for a choice the player would have to do at the end of the game. Yet, the status quo is maintained, the system remains unchanged and Crazy Mita is still on and about. The game is incomplete, it is missing a conclusion. If it really were a philosophical game, it would have never released without taking position. It's literally like doing a dissertation that : raises a question, shows why two extreme answers don't work, forgets to conclude, and then pretends it's corrector's job to answer the question you decided to raise. Like no, this isn't how this works lmao. And no, the other ending, choosing to run away, is not an answer to the problem, it is pure cowardice, it is not even close to being an answer : it outright dodges the problem. No matter how hard the game tries to make it seem like it, MiSide is NOT deep philosophically-speaking.

And no, needing to clarify your story every two minutes because of its vagueness and incompleteness is not normal... You say this is because it treats of complicated philosophical themes. But first of all MiSide we can't even talk about treating said philosophical themes if it dodges it whenever it comes to taking position. And even so, philosophers rarely ever get interviewed to clear up misunderstandings, and it is rather for clearing up misunderstandings about their thesis, not fill the holes in their thesis lol. Devs do not only clear up wrong interpretations, they add lore, they fill the holes in their story. And an example for this is, I quote @fresh sun : "According to the qna 8.18 , her sentience was an "extraordinary accident." The system’s cruelty , her discardment, is what gave that sentient accident the motive to become a murderer. ", this is additional information that is not directly in the story, and therefore irrelevant when it comes to judging the writing, story. The narrative failed to successfully convey their message, omitted things, this is therefore a failure of the narrative. Overused plot vagueness is not good.

When you talk about repressive tolerance, if this is an answer to what I said about Karl Popper's thought, I don't know what to say... Karl Popper's position is not repressive tolerance whatsoever... Read again or make some researches about his thesis regarding tolerance.

If, as you say, MiSide were a psychological horror game. Not only would it highlight even more its tough questions and make it dilemmas, but it would force you into making difficult choices, dilemmas where you know there is no right choice, and make you feel the consequences of said choices, make you bloody regret what you've done YOURSELF for the rest of your days. This, is what a true psychological horror game looks like. The game fails at making the player feel psychologically engaged, because the player only follows the flow of events and has no grasp on the outcome.

[serene token]

At the end of the day, whether Crazy Mita justifies the system is fully based on assumptions due to narrative vagueness and narrative ambiguity. We've come to this conclusion through multiple instances. As @spring harbor said, we have no idea if there is a reason behind rejected dummies being aggressive. As I said, and you agreed to it, we have no idea about the correlation between red eyes and aggressiveness, some dummies are aggressive without having red eyes. As you said yourself, we don't know the why behind Crazy Mita's actions, only the how through the little context we're given. All we can factually say is, some rejected dummies are aggressive and some aren't, but no accepted dummy is aggressive. The system protects from the aggressive dummies by isolating them, but at the cost of innocent dummies. Whether their aggressiveness is caused by the system, this is speculations. Therefore the system is both justified and criticised. Yet the narrative ambiguity makes it so it can be interpreted completely different ways, each interpretation giving opposed messages. And just the fact that ever since a few days we've had so many radically different interpretations proves it.

And regarding your conclusion, you justify MiSide not answering the questions it decides to raise by the protagonist only wanting to leave. But this can only mean two things. Either the game wanted to treat the questions it purposefully raises, and therefore Player 1 is a terrible protagonist choice. Or the game wanted to be a simple story of the Player 1 trying to escape a horrific, non-intuitive world and then the said questions are out of place.

[waxen abyss]

Hooray, another day of discussions, I've already got the popcorn!

[serene token]

No problem mate 😂

Always here to maintain this chat alive!

[waxen abyss]

you?

[serene token]

Duh

[fresh sun]

this is additional information that is not directly in the story, and therefore irrelevant when it comes to judging the writing, story.
Well honestly while i understand where you are coming from, this is objectively wrong, when the creator makes clarification for their art, if it isn't completely present within the art it doesn't mean it's worthless
needing to clarify your story every two minutes because of its vagueness and incompleteness is not normal...
Yes if you mostly see more straight forward stories this wouldn't make sense, it would seem like the devs are just making stuff up, however Miside being heavily into enviromental story telling NEEDS some clarification< maybe you disagree with the amount but it's there for a reason since players like you don't understand some things
if, as you say, MiSide were a psychological horror game. Not only would it highlight even more its tough questions and make it dilemmas, but it would force you into making difficult choices, dilemmas where you know there is no right choice,
A game doesn't need to give you agency to go within psychlogical horror . The very fact the game depicts a REALLY realistic way to isolate yourself is it doing a small commentary over working and having no meaning in your life.It appears because again YOUR EXPACTATIONS weren't meant you are taking out on the game, it did things differently it isn't reguired to follow a specific formula, there's nothing wrong with dislike Miside approach but a lot of people enjoyed its spin in things.
Yet the narrative ambiguity makes it so it can be interpreted completely different ways, each interpretation giving opposed messages.
The devs wanted to keep things vague for you to keep thinking about it, you might dislike such an approach, and ome clarifications would be nice regarding the devs and teh system, but still it's a PERSONAL opinion not an actual issue with how they did things

And regarding your conclusion, you justify MiSide not answering the questions it decides to raise by the protagonist only wanting to leave. But this can only mean two things. Either the game wanted to treat the questions it purposefully raises, and therefore Player 1 is a terrible protagonist choice. Or the game wanted to be a simple story of the Player 1 trying to escape a horrific, non-intuitive world and then the said questions are out of place.
The game raises questions but due to its runtime it doesn''t answer some of them . The protagonist of Miside has CLEAR characterisation and isn't the type to question systems , but if you see a crazy maniac kill Mitas and then say that a "perfect Mita needs both good and evil" obviously you are going to reject her. The world IS intuitive, the game doesn't explore the oppretion of the system from an unbiased perspective but what crazy Mita says isn't COMPLETELY baseless. Again apart from getting answer from updates, which isn't certain but it is an option, Miside theming and dread is that of isolation and making lives feel meaningless
Player 1's routine , crazy Mita discardion, the various outbursts from the other Mitas like ghostly Mita and Mila clearly show this theme.
Miside SUCCEDEED in the general message it tried to convey, whether you like that message or not is another issue

Again your stance on this game is clearly missplaced , you are arguing for Miside to become sth it never wanted to be

I would have respected your opinion more if you LISTENED to the clear clarifications the devs provided instead of treating them as "devs covering mistakes" or "irrelevent extra info that isn't in the game"

[sly gorge]

Thats the
Soft p-word

Still terrifying

[spring harbor]

We have no idea if there is a reason behind rejected dummies being aggressive. As I said, and you agreed to it, we have no idea about the correlation between red eyes and aggressiveness, some dummies are aggressive without having red eyes. As you said yourself, we don't know the why behind Crazy Mita's actions, only the how through the little context we're given.
You really don't like vagueness do you XD?
I get that Miside is **ridiculously **unclear and you don't like that, that's entirely fair, but you're never going to get an answer if you give up halfway through questions thinking they're unsolvable.
As I previously said, the game **REQUIRES **you to search for **EVERY **clue the devs placed, that is by design, they were meticulous with their placement, I wager they know what they are doing.
You won't get satisfactory answers with incomplete context, you have to stay and search harder.
I'd rather say I'm missing something before I blame the writing.

[rare condor]

The silence is an answer, we have serious philosophical treaties ending without answers or with silence Byung-Chul Han in his burnout society identifies the problem and doesn't provide any answer whatsoever. Beckett's Waiting for Godot raises the question of meaning and refuses to answer it. Or Wittgenstein's in his Tractatus, famous line "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent" you may not like it but it's a valid philosophical "answer".

Yeah "we don't need MiSide to remind us that the answer is complex" we need it to remind us why its relevant, MiSide horror lies precisely on the inability and looping, its a mirror.

On the philosophers. You hugely wrong, they constantly do interviews and conferences, that's their work. Their books are filled with footnotes elaborating in what they meant many added post hoc . The philosophers that didn't did, had the risk of being hugely misinterpreted. An example of this is Nietzsche or the infamous paragraph of Hegel that no one is sure what it means. Even then most philosophers also discussed their ideas and elaborate their themes in universities and constantly answer questions.

Mita being an accident is implied by the fact she didn't had a skin like the rest of the Mitas and the observed unawareness of the in game devs regarding crazy.

[tough summit]

teto teteteto teteteteteto teto kasane teto teto kasane teto

[rare condor]

Regarding Popper. Ni its not what he said, im aware, its instead what Marcuse said, a different answer to the same problem emerging from the very same context, with different implications. One could even argue, an antithesis to Popper's paradox of tolerance (non that i personally particularly agree with either i don't). Again showing why they don't commit to an explanation, instead letting discussions like this happen, and that is a kind of success. Although naming Marcuse didn't land as i intended.

I think you are missing the point. The decision and implication don't happen in game, they happen to us. That's the third layer; our world as players, on top of the player's 1 world and the Mita's world. In my opinion MiSide isn't a game where you watch a character face philosophical dilemmas. It's a game where the philosophical dilemma is happening to the person holding the controller. When Crazy talks about the player's hypocrisy she's not talking about player 1 but about us. We downloaded the game. We spent time with each Mita and left anyway. We made the choice repeatedly and called it just following the story or what was expected. The ending isn't withholding a conclusion, it's showing us what we already did. (This is why, i also believe Mita is shown inserting the cartridge when you hit "new game" but that's another discussion for another time.) This is why there's no dramatic final choice mechanic. The choice architecture isn't at the end. It's distributed across every moment you left a Mita's level. The game is asking whether you noticed what you were doing while you were doing it imo. The horror isn't Crazy Mita. The horror is recognizing yourself in the system she's critiquing. It worked for me, might not for you

We also need to remember that peaceful mode is under development, they are still working on it

[true owl]

https://tenor.com/view/winky-gif-1096654309523310109

[ember swan]

The writing in this game is VERY good.

[pure ledge]

Holy fuck

Theres really discussions, not gen-eng2

[true owl]

Did you just realize this now?

[pure ledge]

I got braindamage

[true owl]

https://tenor.com/view/winky-gif-1096654309523310109

[waxen abyss]

Every time I read your explanations and your perspective, I understand exactly what I wanted to express in this game. A true feast for the eyes and heart, thank you, brother. And by the way, I was surprised that you emphasized that Mita addresses us, the players, not just as the main character we play as, but as the one playing him. I thought everyone understood that from the first playthrough.

[fresh sun]

Since we started discusions and stuff lowkey while i agree the philosophical questions fall on us , the "highest tier of existance" i still feel that what crazy says also kinda implies to player 1. Player 1 has way more depth than what a major enough part of the Miside fanbase give him credit for

[waxen abyss]

YES YES

[cold fractal]

and I wonder if creepy mita loves eating cartridges? yummy yummy

I would eat all lore players here 🔪 🩸

[pure ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/angry-cat-gif-25783770

[waxen abyss]

I immediately imagine her pouring sauce over them and eating them, crunching, everything crumbling out of her mouth.

[fresh sun]

Well the biggest example of player 1 following the themes of Miside is his isolation, he is a work at home person, and has various remarks when he looks at stuff in his room. The most prominent one is in the "real life" chapter after you open the unknown app when he approximately says after you select a bag "there's good weather today, i should go outside" .
Such a remark means that he generally doesn't go outside his home unless it is to buy necessities or generally to do an errand. On top of his remarks in the "prologue" chapter over him still being "weirdly tied" to his office etiquette and if he "will ever see" his coworkers again means that his current line of work is more isolated , he either got transferred or outright fired, for him to makes such a remark for his coworkers.
Crazy Mita clearly shows with her various remarks like "you were looking at me for hours" that he was lonely, but he clearly didn't go the extra length to find people in his world to stop that lonelyness. He wants so badly to return to his world , mostly due to the actions of crazy Mita, that he forgot how meaningless his life actually was.
Player 1 was never supposed to be a hero, he is supposed to be a parallel to people similiar to us that never go outside and make actual impactful connections (he has a friend "MK" but the fact crazy never mentions the guy it means they probably weren't that big of a part in his life ,but this is more speculatory, the parallel doesn't have to be 1:1).
He is also probably a bit jealous over his sister being more "outgoing" , he points it out after you select the picture frame with them in it. He knows that his more isolated lifestyle isn't the best, especially since he has little time to eat actual proper food and doesn't really tidy up his room.

[cold fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/lamine-yamal-gif-17871904163179949391

[waxen abyss]

I agree, this is immediately noticeable overall when you play the game for the first time. And it's even stranger that Player 1 notices the fact that they are isolated in society and simply live within their own four walls, which they personally chose for themselves (most likely, but again, there could be other reasons for this). And Mita, seeing this, wants to show it to them and keep them with her, but no... Player 1 lives the same day over and over for 999 days, and even Mita couldn't withstand this madness. And yes, they mostly run away from her out of fear. Forgetting how they lived before.
I immediately remembered Vaas's quote from Far Cry 3, where he said, 'Insanity is doing the exact... same fucking thing... over and over again expecting... shit to change..' and for a moment I thought Player 1 was crazier than Mita herself

[fresh sun]

"crazier" is a bit of an overstatement but they are for sure too comfortable with routines, the devs said so themselves from what i remember

[rare condor]

Thank you for your kind words, much appreciated

💝

[fresh sun]

@waxen abyss oh hey you got a unique role, congrats!

[waxen abyss]

THANKS

[fresh sun]

a bit curious how you got it xD

[fresh sun]

i never go to the vcs here so sth might have happened within them i guess? i also don't understand russian so something might have happened in #general-ru as well

[spring harbor]

Honestly this game really didn't look like much for me at first.
Fast forward 1 year and it still lives rent free in my brain as one of my favorites.
Absolute gem 💝

I don't even really like yanderes, or horror, or dating sims.
How this happen

[waxen abyss]

[pure ledge]

Mustard Roulette

[fresh sun]

Enviromental story telling and anime like waifus go brrr

[fresh sun]

What's that xD

[glossy hollow]

Is it safe to say 2D Mita is the most potential Mita?

0 Relevance to lore
0 Abilities
7 Players she can stall

[spring harbor]

Mustard Roulette! So-called "mustard":
Put "mustard": under this message, and we'll use a completely fair and random roulette to decide who gets the role of @Mr. Mustard! (I'll spin in 30 minutes, so bring it along.)

[rare condor]

Something they do in general to give the role, unfortunately im never connected when they do

#general-eng message

You can ask you get pinned i guess

[fresh sun]

Ahhh no wonder i didn't know, don't hung out much in general

[serene token]

You know what? You're right, there subjective parts in my critique. But it remains objective on multiple things.

While I agree to say dev clarifications enrich their work, if important elements of the message the game tries to convey are only understandable through them, then the narrative didn't fully convey them. And, as we're discussing the writing itself, it makes sense to focus on what is in the game rather than any external information. I hope this clarifies any misunderstanding regarding this, you seem very engaged regarding these matters, and I feel over interpreted here.

You say "environmental story telling NEEDS some clarification", to this, I say no. It does not necessarily need external clarification. It needs consistency and enough information to build onto, so that players don't arrive at diverging interpretations. I don't think the developers made stuff up afterwards, simply that their message might not have been conveyed this well. You mention not liking theorists, but at the end of the day, they are just like you. They found clues, and interpreted them. Only differently. You said it yourself, MK had to dismiss many things and theories. An example being that MK had to dismiss the theories regarding Cappie's weird reactions to Kind Mita and Kind Mita collaborating with Crazy Mita.

You seem to argue that the game is vague on purpose, but this doesn't mean it is efficiently vague. Again, if it leads to opposed interpretations, it's not about preference.

I agree to say the game succeeds in treating the theme of isolation. My issue is rather that it introduces a system raising philosophical questions regarding morals and ethics, but it does not go all the way through with it.

I'm not imposing the game another purpose, the game decided to introduce this system and raise ethical questions. It's only natural for people to expect said questions to be treated.

[serene token]

Regarding the "no answer", while it can be a philosophical answer, I find it controversial applied to MiSide. The game shows us a system that directly attacks the value of conscious life. The "no answer" as in there is no right solution is very questionable ethically-speaking. Also, generating debate is, sure, already a thing itself. But it does not equal success, as it doesn't replace the rest. Otherwise, generating discussion would be enough to call any work successful, no matter of how it actually treats the debate-generating subject.

And about philosophers, you're right, they do get interviewed to clear up misunderstandings, and always fight against wrong interpretations of their thesis. But my main point remains : once their thesis complete and they post their work, it is rather for clearing up misunderstandings about their thesis, not fill the holes in their thesis". Clarifications are not meant to complete a thesis, only to avoid any wrong or problematic interpretation. Nietzsche's case is regrettable indeed, he's among my favourite philosophers.

[serene token]

So, you mean that our actions throughout the game, such as leaving Mitas, already answer the questions the game raises regarding the value to life. Us players become accomplices of the system : we are the answer. While this is fair, the lack of agency and choice considerably weakens the message.

I'll have to dismiss downloading the game as answering the question, it is labelled as horror/adventure, not "treat conscious beings as objects to fulfil your naughty desires". The people downloading the game do not know all this yet, for a choice to be relevant, it has to be made in full awareness. As for choosing whether to stay with Crazy Mita or open the wardrobe, it is locked behind requirements. Said requirements are rather checking whether you do exactly everything she asks, than treat her as a human being rather than an object, and it even requires you to finish the game the "normal" way. So this choice is irrelevant to answering the questions regarding the value of life. And, correct me if I'm wrong, we don't get to make any other choice in the game. But until proven wrong, no choice us players make can serve as an answer to the philosophical questions raised by the game.

As to why this weakens the message : we follow the flow of events, without the ability to ever stay with the Mitas rather than leaving them and actively participating in the system. In fact, many want to get to know better each Mita, even Crazy Mita (long-awaited peaceful mode). Any player would blame the game for not giving enough possibilities, not themselves for encouraging the system. This even makes me question whether this is intentional, or simply a consequence of the theme of isolation the game treats.

You might argue that us humans can never escape our own freedom (Hegel wink wink), we always have the choice to stay with Mitas. To this, I say sure, you can technically choose to stop your progress in the game, and stay with a Mita. But this isn't meaningful agency, as it is literally stopping to play the game. It is wrongly assigning the responsibility to the player, when it is simply the game's structure not allowing this. If the only way to not "encourage" the system, it only means one thing, the game forces you to partake in the system through its structure, and therefore it is not the responsibility of the player.

[fresh sun]

sigh i will get into this when i am back home

[serene token]

Take it easy

I always take time to answer

You don't have to answer in a matter of minutes

Or answer at all if it bothers you

[serene token]

And I'm not going to answer soon anyway since it's late here

[fresh sun]

But it remains objective on multiple things.
This is REALLY heavily debatable but fine let's leave it at that i guess
if important elements of the message the game tries to convey are only understandable through them, then the narrative didn't fully convey them.
While it's true for some things,with some of them not being exactly minor, but the most important parts of the story, if you have the time and mood to look for them, are understandable without looking into dev qnas. The gnas are there to make some clarifications and to point people to the right direction, they are mandatory only if you want a basis for a theory or if you don't have time .
to this, I say no. It does not necessarily need external clarification.
Clarification IS needed because enviromental storytelling is completely unsaid. Here's an example:
A developer puts sunglasses in a level without windows or any other ways to look outside.One person will say that it's summer thus they are needed, then an other person will say it's a "fashion choice" for the character that has the room, both pretty valid observations without additional info. The beauty of enviromental storytelling is figuring out things by yourself but some baseline pointers are NEEDED or people will start coming up with wild things.
You mention not liking theorists, but at the end of the day, they are just like you.
I don't dislike theorists in general, i dislike theorist that base everything only on what they saw and believe, there's a difference between have a personal interpatation of things and actively devolping and uploading a theory in any form. There's a baseline of research that is needed for making a theory. The theorists and critics like you that i dislike are vibe ones (okay honestly you played the game enough to have complaints but you are still not using evidence for a lot of the things you say)

You seem to argue that the game is vague on purpose, but this doesn't mean it is efficiently vague. Again, if it leads to opposed interpretations, it's not about preference.
Oh well i guess you really don't like the vaguness that was used on Miside, but having opposed interpatations isn't exactly a problem. Some people will side with crazy Mita because they focus on the wrongs of the system, opposing player 1's decision, while others will fully discard crazy Mita and everything she says , wanting her deleted. That isn't something WRONG with Miside, for better for me and for worse for you, it decided to not asnwer this qyestion, it might answer it in an update.
My issue is rather that it introduces a system raising philosophical questions regarding morals and ethics, but it does not go all the way through with it
The philosophical questions apart from not needing to be answered by the game itself, it would be nice but it isn't a reguirment, the game is made by 2 people, some leeway is needed, even big studios struggle with philosophical themes and how to tie them up.
I'm not imposing the game another purpose, the game decided to introduce this system and raise ethical questions. It's only natural for people to expect said questions to be treated
You want the game to do something it pretty straighforwardly didn't want to do, at least for now. Wanting answers is a natural thing, expecting them isn't. You wanted an expectation to be met , to the point you are pointing out as an objective fault when it isn't is Imposing one of your desires to the development of the game
But my main point remains : once their thesis complete and they post their work, it is rather for clearing up misunderstandings about their thesis, not fill the holes in their thesis"
I am pretty sure in some of their clarifications they feel up holes for parts of their thesis, philosophy isn't math, the "formula" doesn't have a certain amount of answers

So, you mean that our actions throughout the game, such as leaving Mitas, already answer the questions the game raises regarding the value to life.
Not all of them, however which side our player character choose is pretty apperent. He chose to side with Kind Mita, whether that's siding with the system or not is up for debate, i personally think it isn't, but he wants to help kind Mita and go back home, he is still impacted by what's happening around him, he wasn't indiferent to Mila's and kind's death, but player 1 was never supposed to answer these philosophical questions, the guy is too emotionally exhausted to do so
But until proven wrong, no choice us players make can serve as an answer to the philosophical questions raised by the game.
It's by design, but apart from the 2 new endings we are getting you are forgetting that we can choose to completely disngange and effectievely kill player 1 by him pulling out his cartidge, that's also an ending for the game. Obviously it isn't a good way to end the game, it's more of an easter egg than an ending, but for someone who wants agency so much, i am suprised you didn't mention literally the only other ending you can get in the game, at least to my knowledge.
As to why this weakens the message : we follow the flow of events, without the ability to ever stay with the Mitas rather than leaving them and actively participating in the system. In fact, many want to get to know better each Mita, even Crazy Mita (long-awaited peaceful mode). Any player would blame the game for not giving enough possibilities, not themselves for encouraging the system. This even makes me question whether this is intentional, or simply a consequence of the theme of isolation the game treats.
It's almost a fact that we WILL get to do more things with the other Mitas, so your problem here will be probably nonexistant in the future. So this "weakness" to the message will stop being a thing.

Look i enjoy debating as much as the next guy , heck i even agree with you that some parts of the story could have been less vague, it would have been better, but still you keep INSISTING that the approach Miside took is wrong. The devs aren't reguired to follow a formula or to follow a guideline, especially indie devs that are trying to do something more experimental. Miside is a psychological horror, so it doesn't have to give us more agency.
Let's just say Miside could have cut down the vaguness in some parts and you personally dislike other aspects and let's end it there. I want to talk about my or others' observations and evidenced theories, not how much someone disliked Miside because of some critisism but mostly of subjective opinion

[rare condor]

Ok we making some progress I guess haha.

The system is implied to not be aware the Mitas are sentient. It seems to operate them in a utilitarian efficiency progress focused way, discarding the faulty and keeping the functional. People in Player 1's reality are hinted to treat Mitas as a product and a mere game, not sentient beings. Like a Tamagotchi. Thers a pamphlet in the prologue about AI in player's 1 world. The ethics lie on us, and what we do and think once we understand what it is.

Works that get discussed are preserved, works that don't are forgotten. See the classics of antiquity, many survive precisely because they were discussed. We have references about some works only through their critics.

There's no lack of agency. In most levels you can stay as long as you want and can replay them. The loop theme is very important, I can't help but emphasize this. You say staying with a Mita means stopping to play the game, therefore it's not meaningful agency. But that's precisely the point. The game's structure mirrors the real world's structure. The system continues whether you participate or not, and opting out costs you something real. Refusing to leave Mila means the story doesn't progress. The game isn't broken for making non-participation expensive. That's accurate to how systems actually work. Refusing to participate in consumer culture means material cost.

Regarding the wardrobe choice, I still think you don't get it. Loops, very important theme. The game is structured so that after completion, after knowing everything Crazy did and does, you can still choose to stay. That's meaningful agency, not only onto Player 1 but upon us.

And we do make other small choices. We can choose if she keeps the glasses or not, and she complies. That choice is small, voluntary, not plot relevant and she complies. That's the game quietly demonstrating exactly what you are missing: a choice that treats a Mita as someone whose preferences matter, with a consequence that isn't mechanical. It doesn't look like a choice. Which is also the point. It also says a whole lot about my cutie pie.

Regarding philosophers not filling holes in their own work, that's not precisely true. Wittgenstein is the clearest example. In his later work he starts changing opinions and filling holes of his Tractatus. In his Philosophical Investigations he dismantles his own Tractatus. He essentially wrote the second book to fill the philosophical gaps exposed by the first. Kant writes his Critique of Pure Reason, a revolutionary book, but it left open questions about morality, aesthetics and teleology. So he writes Critique of Practical Reason, then Critique of Judgment to bridge them further and clarify and revise his ideas. We see how Plato's positions change and how he addresses ontological and methodological gaps left in earlier metaphysical discussions.

It's psychological horror, and yeah it does have adventure aspects in gameplay. Gameplay is fun imo.

Yeah, inability is the horror underneath. Meaning is assigned not inherent. Remove Crazy or the player, the system still remains. Inability.

[rare condor]

You keep framing the philosophical questions as something the game introduced and then abandoned. But the game didn't introduce them as questions to be answered, it introduced them as conditions to be experienced.
And yeah, I overlooked the pulling out cartridge ending, but I think it reinforces my point regarding agency and opting out of the system. Pulling out your own cartridge is the one act of genuine refusal available and it costs you everything in game terms. That's not just an easter egg. That's the game's most honest answer to the agency problem. The only way to fully refuse the system is self destruction. Which is also accurate outside the game.

[rare condor]

[fresh sun]

i guess you want to continue this convo huh 😅 , sorry i just prefer to discuss things without a debate mode on , i like it when we discuss aspects of the game on a not "it's writing is bad/good" or a "the game is overall good/bad" kind of framing

[fresh sun]

i meant that ark overlooked it more than you did to be fair xD
But yeah now that i think about it, it's impact is more significant that i gave it credit for, but i won't back down that it's a "lesser" ending compared to the others

[rare condor]

But nice things surged, like the red eye mannequin thingy

[rare condor]

Except you forgetting the glasses details, sure its kinda not important but i see it as a crack in her mask. I don't think she want to be fixed by someone who sees her as broken imo or acomadated in the system. That's different from not wanting to change for someone who sees her as worth changing for. She adjusted her appearance based on your preference without being asked twice. That's not someone incapable of accommodation, i mean that's someone who never had a reason to try it before.

That detail melts me everytime

And as a side note the fridge one, when you leave earlier shes is confused, she practiced her little evil monologue, i find that adorable

[rare condor]

Tho yeah, your interpretation of the last dialogues makes sense. I still believe she's genuinely confused ngl

[waxen abyss]

When I wake up, I'll have something to read. Thanks

[fresh sun]

lol

[waxen abyss]

Honestly, I'm surprised by all of this, especially the chat comments. Sometimes it feels like Ark wants more from the game than the developers have managed to achieve, especially considering it's just an indie project, the deadline is short, etc. And the fact that just two developers managed to get so many people talking about their game in the media is simply incredible. At this point, we should be applauding and shouting a standing ovation to the developers for such a wonderful game. Ultimately, the way this game makes you fall in love with it is also astounding. I've played many games from major studios, but they haven't always managed to capture my emotional connection or make me fall in love with them; I'd finish them and forget about them after a while. But only two PEOPLE here have managed to make this game an integral part of me, and what makes me fall in love with EVERY MITA is that this love, empathy, desire to help, accept, listen, etc., soars beyond the Earth's ozone layer, to the edge of the universe and beyond.

[fresh sun]

yeah , AAA studios play it more safe to capture a larger audience, they have corporate mandates to fullfill after all

I mostly get attached to stories indie devs made nowadays, and Miside is in the top for me now

[waxen abyss]

It's already captured my heart and soul, and even has its own Steam category. That's how important this game is to me—it's my number one.
It's simply hard to describe in words how this game became my first and last, both in terms of my favorite game and my love for the characters.

[fresh sun]

yeah it's a really good game even with some of its small faults, anyways speaking of appriciating Miside, did you get stuff from the kickstarter?

[waxen abyss]

I'm going to save up to buy myself a plush toy and two figurines

[fresh sun]

ah alright, i am waiting to get stuff myself in the June , though i already have an unofficial plushie

[waxen abyss]

Actually, I changed my mind. I'll take the plush toy and the set, this one

[fresh sun]

yeah i am also waiting to get this set, i mostly got it for the mouse pad and the magnets ngl xD

[waxen abyss]

I'm from behind the pillow

[fresh sun]

alright xD

[glossy hollow]

No Creepy Mita merchandise

Miside tells you that you shouldn't like girls just because they look ''cute'' and yet, they pretend like Original Mita never existed.

[spring harbor]

Yes, I agree.
She's not completely unwilling to change herself, she simply doesn't want someone else to change her, to dictate who she should be.
She wants to appeal to a player out of her own will, not theirs.

[spring harbor]

Since you mentioned the fridge scene, I'll add my own interpretation, although it might be a little out there XD:

You know how immediately after the fridge falls you hear Crazy Mita say:

"Oops! Sorry, almost killed you there."
"Uhm... The fridge, I mean... the fridge almost killed you."
"I had nothing to do with it, I swear! Truly!"

I believe her, she had nothing to do with it.

The fridge was never supposed to harm you. It merely obstructs your path.
Makes it so that the only way forward is to walk directly under Crazy Mita while she’s talking.
This scene is set up to lure your camera upwards.
Gives you the perfect angle to "make Mita blush".
The camera will even zoom in for you!

Yet as you walk away her expression changes.

Depending on what you did.

[haughty linden]

interesting, didn't know about the second expression

[spring harbor]

If you look it's 😟 otherwise 🙂.

[haughty linden]

yeah

[waxen abyss]

You can come up with many interpretations for the painting on the wall, such as it being 'a bird in a cage

[spring harbor]

If you look close, the padlock appears to look the same as the one in the basement, although the details are partly obscured by clouds.

You're like a bird in a cage, a hamster on a wheel.
You were hoping for someone to come to your rescue.
You wanted to escape, didn't you?
-CM

[haughty linden]

the golden cage

a fitting metaphor for this game

[rare condor]

What a neat detail, this level is one of my favorites ngl

[spring harbor]

A gilded cage, where you're trapped in comfort, but cannot find happiness.
-Some 🔥 comment I've read somewhere.

[waxen abyss]

It hurts to look at her, it makes my heart bleed.

[stray bridge]

💔 bro what

[waxen abyss]

Just one extra bone and it's straight to the scrap heap

[waxen abyss]

By the way, if you look in the mirror or use the free camera, you'll notice that Player 1 has bags under his eyes, even though they weren't there at the start.

[waxen abyss]

And Mita is not the only one like this. Even Mita herself, the one from the beginning, wishes for everything to be like in the first picture. But she only gets this in the second ending

As for the protagonist... he's like an empty shell, devoid of any emotion, his existence perceived only through sound. By contrast, the Mitas radiate emotion from every pore, seeming truly alive. I can't give the same assessment to the player; it's as if... we've stepped into his skin, and through him, Mita, we see her perspective on our world, hinting at his desire for escapism and the fact that he considers it fundamentally inferior to hers.

[fresh sun]

To be honest this might not be true lore wise, while he IS stoic, he still has some large enough reactions to some things. I attribute him never changing expression as a game limitations and not an outright full story element

[waxen abyss]

Well, it's understandable that he speaks quite emotionally about certain situations, words, and actions. But still, sometimes such a thought crosses my mind.

[fresh sun]

Yeah i can see why but from what i've seen from the manga our boy is expressive enough (though i guess it isn't cannon but i still mostly attribute his lack of expression to a game limitation)

[fresh sun]

Honestly this is a really nice detail

[fresh sun]

Yeah for sure

[true owl]

Is the manga canonical?

I don't remember Terletsky's manga being canon.

[fresh sun]

though i guess it isn't cannon

Anyways i am taking it into more of an example of player 1 being expressive in official media

Than an outright lore confirmation

[true owl]

Okay, I just wanted to clarify, because I myself bought the manga based on the game Miside.

Although the manga may be canon, and I can roughly prove it.

[fresh sun]

Alright i guess

[waxen abyss]

By the end of the game, he was feeling sick and exhausted

[haughty linden]

do you guys think Crazy mita (the other mitas as well) is beholden by her programming?

i doubt she is one of those AI villains that evolved beyond their programming

[civic hill]

ik this is gonna sound crazy (no pun intended) but what if mita's entire personality/mind is some kind of digital copy of an irl version of her? it'd explain why they act so human and seem way too advanced for anything we got today

[haughty linden]

that is possible, think they have done something like that with their previous game xD

[civic hill]

lol

[rare condor]

altho in the real life chapter he looks normal, a little detail

the matter is imagining player 1 happy haha

also loops

[waxen abyss]

When purchasing the game's soundtrack, I noticed three tracks marked "Delete." After listening to them, I was surprised to discover which track and which minigame we'd lost.

[spring harbor]

They're bangers too...

[pure ledge]

Have you tried to listen the MemoryOfYou? Or smth like that?

[kind sedge]

Miside soundtrack lowk good ngl

🔥

[fresh sun]

yeah fr

[waxen abyss]

I just love her smile so much

[civic hill]

smile!

[true owl]

Damn it, what have I done?

[waxen abyss]

ХАПХВАХПВА ЭТО ОЧИШУЕННО

[fresh sun]

oh lol xD

why does Monika have pants xD

[true owl]

GPT changed xd

[glossy hollow]

Now i want to see Creepy Mita vs Yuri version of this

[true owl]

Well, I think Creppy Mita wins.

[glossy hollow]

[true owl]

I see you

[fresh sun]

xD

[fresh sun]

yeah i figured xD

gpt Made crazy Mita a man as well btw xD

but i guess it isn't that big of a deal in this type of shot i guess

[true owl]

Well, you have to admit, it's cool.

[fresh sun]

i guess

[true owl]

By the way, how are you?

[fresh sun]

doing pretty well i guess

[true owl]

I see, I'm fine.

[tough hornet]

Hello fellow lore reader