off-topic

[hard peak]

I think you need to purchase a license to modify an existing engine like Unreal.

[hexed sentinel]

No results in the discord search

Not seeing it.

[junior hawk]

You don’t have the regular role

[hard peak]

Neither do I.

[hexed sentinel]

Proof of this channel existing?

[hard peak]

I think the roles description mentions it.

I personally will take your word for it because it is a well known fact that Unreal is incorrectly optimized, so what you are saying isn't exactly nonsensical.

[humble parrot]

Morning

[hard peak]

Good morning!

[barren sierra]

there is no furry erp staff chat, this madman is lieing to you

we just get emoji benefits in off topic

[hard peak]

Well, they had me for a while there.

[hexed sentinel]

Knew it lmao

[junior hawk]

Sorry for trolling cat walked across the keyboard

[hard peak]

Simply because Unreal really IS badly optimized.

[north thicket]

oh damn you're right

[hexed sentinel]

Claiming that Palworld is nearing the end due to engine limitations and claiming Pocketpair has no plans according to something Bucky said... only for it being a troll according to you ... is that really Regular role behavior?

[junior hawk]

Probably not. I should likely be demoted or banned.

Very unacceptable on my part.

[queen vale]

https://tenor.com/view/montypython-witch-burnthewitch-gif-5477103

[hard peak]

I will admit, that was actually quite clever. Though the whole "Palworld is nearing its end" part didn't really convince me because there are ways to circumvent limitations, like the one I described.

[hexed sentinel]

Yeah.

[peak folio]

End of Palworld because of Unreal, what?

[hexed sentinel]

They deleted their messages, but it was more along the lines of some players would be unable to load the map if the add more content.

Something like that. I can't quite remember.

[barren sierra]

if anything with how unreal works things can only get better only limited by the coding capabilities of the dev team

[peak folio]

Games stream content, Unreal is no different.

[barren sierra]

-# where are my robinquill mini games from the trailers pocketpair, let me shoot apples of lamballs heads

[hexed sentinel]

I didn't believe them anyway, but some people believed what they said in #palworld-general referencing the discussion here.

[barren sierra]

Lods can be used if map gets that detailed tbh

[humble parrot]

Lods are already used

[barren sierra]

which loads a shit quality model when viewed from a distance

[peak folio]

I can’t keep up with General.

[humble parrot]

Palworld already dodges a bullet that hit Ark by not having all pals be persistent

And only spawning around the player

[hexed sentinel]

#palworld-general message

all the discussion is around there

[peak folio]

Huh, see a lot of “but bucky said” so maybe I should look there and see what’s most likely getting misconstrued.

[hexed sentinel]

Look where?

I'm tired.

[barren sierra]

il remind you bucky said grillet and warsect terra were a myth and don't release, it did happen

i don't trust anything the frog man says anymore

[hexed sentinel]

That was datamined information

In the game files

[barren sierra]

dragostrophe,Boltmane,dark mutant

[peak folio]

The post you linked showed a regular admitting to something so I just searched bucky posts.

[hard peak]

Kinda wish Dark Mutant was a thing.

[humble parrot]

Sniper rifle, beer, poop

[hard peak]

Also, I am scrambled yet again.

[hexed sentinel]

see channel exclusive to regular role holders

[hard peak]

Do Beegardes rarely drop their spears or is that just datamining?

[humble parrot]

Rare drop

[hexed sentinel]

This message

[hard peak]

Because TV Tropes insinuates they can, and I distinctly remember one doing that, but people tell me that's unused and I must have a Mandela Effect going on.

[humble parrot]

Oh wait

[hard peak]

So my Beegarde + Elizabee culling is not in vain?

[humble parrot]

Not beegardes, only elizabee drops the staff

[sick flame]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/682227584087490573/1327264435840225323/FB_IMG_1736514864807.jpg?ex=67826ed4&is=67811d54&hm=46c7d7054e175816e17a1b26d70d3872474132d9dab45382bd22a3a645ef2fc4&

[hard peak]

Ah, so it IS a datamine.

[humble parrot]

Yes

[hard peak]

Alrighty! Thank you for clearing that up!

[hexed sentinel]

Like, a few Lifmunk effigies were found hidden in the map in inaccessible places. We only know about those by looking at the game data.

We wouldn't know about those normally.

[peak folio]

Dammit Stpaddy!

Yeah so I think what was actually being said is that Palworld still needs to launch according to plan and not turn into a Star Citizen forever project with ever expanding scope. Talk of technical limitations were tongue in cheek mostly.

[hexed sentinel]

Bucky would have to have said that though.

and a channel exclusive to Regular role holders would have to exist

and apparently neither of those exist

[peak folio]

I see nothing that really implies an end.

[hexed sentinel]

Exactly

[peak folio]

Not sure why Unreal Engine is a discussion

[hexed sentinel]

More messages are getting deleted

[peak folio]

Did bucky post in here?

Deleted messages was why I was confused in the first place.

[hexed sentinel]

They were messages posted by Stpaddy.

I think they are deleting their own messages to clean up.

But they were basically saying that Bucky said blah blah blah

You get the idea

[peak folio]

I definitely don’t see that.

Guess this is a nonsensical fire.

[hexed sentinel]

#palworld-general message

One that wasn't deleted yet

and one message below it saying it was a direct quote

Buch of nonsense anyway

[peak folio]

Can’t confirm

[hexed sentinel]

@cyan acorn Don't worry about what was said in here

[cyan acorn]

I will

[hexed sentinel]

@trim wind same to you as well

[hexed sentinel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/855755616314982440/1265022446436876399/Chillet_Confused.gif

[peak folio]

I will conclude that whole discussion seems to just be the result of a little trolling that blew up since it plain doesn’t make sense.

[hexed sentinel]

Yeah. It really didn't.

[peak folio]

Maybe my initial analysis based the general link accepted plain fabrications to begin with… just my opinion is that I don’t see any reason why the engine or the game will just arbitrarily hit a hard coded wall. That’s just not how any of this really works.

[hexed sentinel]

Like, if the Palworld map really gets too big, why not have another map separated by a loading screen?

or maybe a million other solutions

[hard peak]

Like I said (though this is probably quite expensive) would be to modify the engine itself to be optimized for Palworld.

[peak folio]

I don’t imagine it loads the full map in full detail at once anyway or the amount of memory you’d need would already be as big as the game.

Consoles in general have very little memory so engines are designed to stream (but the level designer has to set that up)

-# this is a significant simplification

so yeah, it just doesn’t make sense

[hard peak]

This would be optimal for consoles, as this is actually what many devs did.

[peak folio]

Many games typically branch from the engine, it’s nothing unusual

[hard peak]

True, though it is probably expensive because of licenses.

[peak folio]

I think the biggest limitation rn is Pal AI and base sizes since there’s so much going on. I don’t know if Unreal’s Mass can help with that, but investing in an advanced solution for this might enable some cool things.

[peak folio]

Or just programmer’s time

[hard peak]

True that.

[hard peak]

Also true.

[tranquil obsidian]

to expand; there are 3 that could not be obtained without glitches, but 1 was fixed in the feybreak update so it currently stands at only 2 unobtainable right now

[hexed sentinel]

One is in the ocean

another two are inside terrain

another one was stuck behind an invisible wall, but that was fixed iirc

[trim wind]

If anyone plays warframe, this is my new kubrow 😃
He's an omega

I forgot I can't send pics here

[trim wind]

https://imgur.com/a/yR0ixLi

I did it 😃

[tranquil obsidian]

havent heard the ocean one?

the invisible wall one was fixed, and the two terrain ones still exist. one near the penking area, forget where the other is

[ancient rampart]

ive been waiting for a new doom game that's all i want

[sick flame]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/682227584087490573/1327300561988751523/ride.mp4?ex=6782907a&is=67813efa&hm=0d8ccec3e658f5b38f8e002c3c059f9cf137532291f91e08085612e71d1d7735&

[frozen bluff]

Approaching its limits is a wild take lmfao

[frozen bluff]

Consider how God of War did it. No loading screens. The "loading screens" in that game are done by putting the player in an enclosed area where they're moving slowly, and the actual loading of the next area is a background process.

Like an elevator going up or down. It was pretty clever

[peak folio]

This was a common practice when loading from incredibly slow discs.

Every console manufacturer has had devs be like “please require an SSD in your next system! Please! We’re begging you! *God!!”

[sick flame]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1273013846117843060/1327315384038326322/image.png?ex=67829e47&is=67814cc7&hm=6449f851a6c4d2366966326ad7a3ff7aad5c63b0ecf94bda04ee7d3d5ad50e1c&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1273013846117843060/1327315612749533194/image.png?ex=67829e7e&is=67814cfe&hm=d0c930d4c3c47652bcbd8d68739b3d17c81057fe2ed1273190cd35a45d989469&

[full mountain]

Hmmm?

Are you accusing the discord decoration here of being AI?

[sick flame]

These are 2 different posts

[full mountain]

Oh

Weird

[peak folio]

The nine tailed kitsune is on sale

[hard peak]

Quick question here: Does anybody know of any Unreal editors that would allow me to look into Palworld and (potentially) Deep Rock Galactic's inner workings?

I crave the "Use Remedy" sound, as it... how do I explain... sounds like I was back in 2014.

And I want the Cave Skull's "dying laughs".

[peak folio]

I’m not sure if the question is appropriate for #palworld-modding but they’ll know.

The regular editor might work too, I haven’t bothered yet.

[hard peak]

You mean UEdit or whatever that was?

[solid sun]

Bucky said dogs can't look up.

[peak folio]

The one that comes with Unreal Engine.

[hard peak]

I did not realize I needed a verified Epic Games account.

Forget it.

[peak folio]

For the official tools, yeah.

[sour mica]

Cloudy
☁️ -4°C°F
-canada i can't even leave my house 😭

[solid sun]

don't you have a 2nd floor?

[zinc depot]

they never need to, no natural flying predators

[barren sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/süß-cute-white-shepherd-dog-weißer-schäferhund-hund-gif-10434675299072086992

[solid sun]

think about all of the reindeer though.

[sour mica]

imma be alright i still have shadow and jugjug

i hope some of thoes don't dissapear for 2 month

[peak folio]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gg4tKmUXoAAJREV?format=jpg&name=medium

[sick flame]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/687252840229634070/1327354517875855410/image0.png?ex=6782c2ba&is=6781713a&hm=864ab63c39dba4b2ef3a850a7b30293253bd1a33b486a1f12ea45d3a16c35941&

[frozen bluff]

Pigs can't look up

[potent stratus]

yeah it's pigs not dogs

https://tenor.com/view/extremelyepichvhboy-gif-27111459

[icy pecan]

Bacon

[sick flame]

https://tenor.com/view/realkimroro-คิมโรโระ-cat-pig-gif-15917697

camouflage

[cyan acorn]

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fdominos-knows-whats-up-v0-bf5ut3p8b6ce1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dfdf004650e19e89644b197872bb7a14b4d59a6dd

[peak folio]

https://x.com/monsterhunter/status/1877496100149510445

Monster Hunter (@monsterhunter) on X

Monster Hunter Wilds @IGN First coverage continues with an interview with the development team! Hear how advancements in technology have helped bring their vision of a truly seamless and immersive hunting experience to life.

👉 https://t.co/9RVmzrR87E

Twitter · Jan 9, 2025, 11:22 PM

[potent stratus]

I don't eat any pig meat :<

https://tenor.com/view/pig-cute-gif-19628085

[icy pecan]

I do

[potent stratus]

😭

[hearty sonnet]

I eat mostly pork for meat haha

I just had pulled pork

[potent stratus]

I'm beating you up 😠

https://tenor.com/view/show-him-pig-punch-family-guy-gif-16062018

[grand falcon]

Animals are made to be eaten

If we didn't eat them, they would over populate, and suffer long and painful deaths, through having lack of space and food

[potent stratus]

I'm happy being a vegetarian thank you ^^

But feel free to eat all the meat you want

[grand falcon]

More animals end up dying by harvesting plants

Machines/trucks used to harvest plants and shit, don't stop when animals are in the way

On top of that, vegetarian food, is taking food away from the animals, making them starve, and the amount of bugs and insects(which they still count), is insane

7billion animals die, from machines, used to harvest plants

And that's not including bugs and insects

And that's just in the US

[potent stratus]

No idea why you're pinging me about this, no one is judging you for the food you eat so I don't understand why you're judging me. You eat what you want and I'll eat what I want.

End of discussion for me

[grand falcon]

I'm not judging

I'm just stating a fact

Because there is no such thing as vegetarians

[full mountain]

if that's the person i think you're talking to, you can ignore 'em, they a lil hard headed don't pay em any mind

You eat what you wanna eat and respect what others eat as well, you're more than alright in my book 👍🏽

[potent stratus]

Nah it's fine ^^ no one was judging anyone. I threaten to punch shell over everything so we're all joking around having fun

[icy pecan]

What he says is true tho

[potent stratus]

But thank you

[grand falcon]

Because I don't go based on opinions

I go on only facts

[full mountain]

ye

[barren sierra]

oinky tasty ngl

[full mountain]

im sure it is, but there's no point in trying to bring it up if Inari isn't even trying to argue about it

[icy pecan]

Tho in the bible before sin happened every living thing had a green plant to eat after sin animals turned on eachother

[full mountain]

No need for debate brain here, friend

[full mountain]

The Bible also said to not wear clothes of mixed materials, but look how that turned out

[barren sierra]

-# oinky flavor gud tho...

[full mountain]

[barren sierra]

-# like oinks you real hard

[full mountain]

Yeee pork and bacon are good tho, but its okay for peeps to not like all dat

[grand falcon]

That's not true

Every creature was made in gods vision

Hints why, carnivores always had teeth made for eating meat

[barren sierra]

Wong! Pork is queen of meat

[icy pecan]

It's literally in the bible

[barren sierra]

lion shall be king when he tastes as good

[grand falcon]

Which Bible

Catholic or Christian

[full mountain]

what does that make beef?

[icy pecan]

Didn't know there was a difference

[grand falcon]

And that's one thing I don't like about this server

A lot of members, are either liberals, or have liberal views/opinions

[icy pecan]

Very liberal yes but if you speak against it your muted or whatever

[grand falcon]

Which is funny, because that's the side that's supposed to be "loving and accepting"

[icy pecan]

But despite that I like this place and half of them are alright but I try not to force a issue

[grand falcon]

Wanna know something funny?

[icy pecan]

Sure

[grand falcon]

Check DMs, I don't wanna say it here, because I don't wanna start no argument

[full mountain]

idk what the other person is on about but like... yeah this server is pretty chill if you can just let things go and let people be people, lmao

not everything needs to be a debate

life is just too short

https://tenor.com/view/eating-guinea-pig-vegetables-chewing-yummy-gif-16015047

Eat your veggies, kids

[icy pecan]

I know what he is on about and I fully agree with him but I'm not gonna deep dive into stuff

[full mountain]

fair enough, i stand by my statement

this server is pretty chill, it helps to not go all debate brain

i mean after every we said i still respect you and appreciate your company, ya know?

[icy pecan]

Well thank you

[full mountain]

yee!

[potent stratus]

You changed your pfp

@full mountain what is your pfp

[full mountain]

whatta mean

what does it look like now?

[potent stratus]

Wha

[full mountain]

sometimes discord messes up and shows my default PFP instead of my server specific pfp

[potent stratus]

Now it's depresso

[full mountain]

^

[potent stratus]

But I meant that little yellow guy from the server pfp

[full mountain]

this guy?

[potent stratus]

Ues

Yes

[full mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/puyo-puyo-puyo-arle-arle-nadja-carbuncle-gif-16178231022521545486

Its carbuncle from the Puyo series

[potent stratus]

aww very cute

[zinc depot]

What does this meme mean

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/904167884660543549/1327393121079656458/SIG.jpg?ex=6782e6ad&is=6781952d&hm=9869eddf3dc13c2ba3465ef77327bf807f9bfbac9ece9f000b032c599d8bbdff&

[barren sierra]

fren

[full mountain]

she ate a Sig Red Dot

what's there not to get

[full mountain]

fair

https://tenor.com/view/smooth-move-cow-gif-16191603673901327691

[potent stratus]

Yo dancing cow

[zinc depot]

But

Why

Oh I found context

Sig are recalling red dots because batteries in them don't have a warning about not eating them

[full mountain]

dats dumb.

ur dumb.

[zinc depot]

No u

[potent stratus]

What :v

[peak folio]

opens steam
New & Trending: Isekai Reincarnation Magic 🐓
🗿

[icy pecan]

[clever jungle]

steam has some interesting games on it for sure

[wheat moat]

That's steam for you, either you get the good stuff or you don't

[jagged topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/gaben-steam-steam-sale-discounts-lord-gaben-gif-5466782

[limpid vessel]

I don't trust you gabe

[worn kelp]

Stop Killing Games has its own Discord server, now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5uumnNNPRU

[clever jungle]

Lmao why don’t you trust gabe

[limpid vessel]

I dont like any video game industry veterans: Phill, Gabe, I actively hate Todd.

[clever jungle]

One one hand gabe invented loot boxes, on the other he is probably the only reason steam/ is still a decent company

[limpid vessel]

He also super pretentious

[clever jungle]

Yeahhhhh

[limpid vessel]

Did you see he said the only reason they havent made half life 3 because the half life games are only tech demos

And he couldn't think of something innovative enough to make a 3rd game

[clever jungle]

At least there aren’t 40 half life games and they are all bad tho

[clever jungle]

Closest we got was vr

And maybe that weird Twitter post that happened end of last year

[sick flame]

https://tenor.com/view/steam-summer-sale-gif-14083791

[solid sun]

a bit early, next big sale is in 61 days. RTS sale is in 9 days

[humble parrot]

Morning

[sick flame]

https://tenor.com/view/march-forth-pigeons-animals-birds-gif-13640220

[humble parrot]

Camera production line

[icy pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/200000-units-are-ready-million-more-well-on-the-way-gif-15836182220374518965

I couldn't find the original scene

[stone rock]

I just got done beating Balatro (all 20 challenges and 120 deck stakes completed). I wish there'd be a Palworld crossover with the game for some neat cardart.

[full mountain]

?

That's not pretentious, that's just wanting to have a proper reason to make a game other than to just make one

[hard peak]

There is always Lore. Several things are still left unanswered.

And they only added even more with Half Life: Alyx.

Though it also gives them some artistic freedom.

They can either continue from Half Life 2: Episode 2 or continue from Half Life: Alyx.

[zinc depot]

sucked

It didn't further the story

[hard peak]

I do agree that doing an entire alternative universe/take was completely unnecessary, though I can see why they'd do it.

Given that Marc Laidlaw has left the Team, I guess they just retconned it to their liking. Doesn't mean I enjoy it, though.

[wicked verge]

https://tenor.com/view/buffoon-gif-21598206

Hello

[teal iron]

Awww yeah egg timeee 🍳

[limpid vessel]

Very pretentious

[full mountain]

Bruh

[limpid vessel]

That means he thinks the games are NOTHING but tech demos

That's so insensitive

[full mountain]

I ain't ever seen someone dislike Gabe Newell but I suppose there's a first for everything

[full mountain]

Literally no?

[limpid vessel]

Gabe is a monopoly owner. I don't like monopolies

[full mountain]

He just doesn't wanna make another half life just for the sake of making a third one

He wants it to have an impact and to change PC gaming once again

That's what HE wants for HIS game, he's not saying every game needs to innovate

[full mountain]

Literally how

[limpid vessel]

Are you seriously saying you don't see how steam is a monopoly?

[full mountain]

Epic games store
GoG galaxy
Microsoft Store

Steam isn't a monopoly, it's just dominate because it's a Hella good client with sick ass features

[limpid vessel]

-People only use epic for Fortnite.
-Gog us only used by those who legit can't use steam
-Hahahahahahahahahahaha

It's absolutely a monopoly but it gets away with it because people loves gabe so much

[full mountain]

It's not a monopoly just because 90% of people prefer it

Lmao

[limpid vessel]

It's a monopoly because it's basically the only usable option

[full mountain]

And that's the fault of Valve... How? It's not like they're hitting epic with any patent law suits, Epic is just having a skill issue with creating a storefront and client

[limpid vessel]

I'm not saying ita valve fault.

I still just don't like monoplies

[full mountain]

It's not a monopoly

[full mountain]

I don't like them either but comeptitors need to start actually putting time into making a good storefront that users will want to use over steam. Simple as

Just interesting to see someone not vibe with Gabe N, but fair enough

We'll have to agree to disagree

[teal iron]

Ok be real Carby no one takes any of those seriously

[limpid vessel]

EXACTLY

[peak folio]

GOG is criminally underrated.

[sick flame]

[barren sierra]

Gog is used by people that want to own their games

And dont give a damn if in a few years a game gets removed on steam

[limpid vessel]

And based because of that

[sick flame]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/371564753849679872/1327704582859526294/Gg-8WseWsAAko5G.png?ex=678408c0&is=6782b740&hm=db30387fa50c4d56cad911983c0f7b401457f95214b4dd2dc47ac04c776eb412&

14h ago

[cunning shadow]

guys whats overdungeon

[humble parrot]

A game

[grand falcon]

Who cares if a game gets removed from steam

If it's in your library, you still have access to it

[cunning shadow]

someone else answer i blocked them

[grand falcon]

Steam isn't the only option

There's multiple "online stores"

Steam, gog, epic games, battle net, Ubisoft connect, Microsoft store, "green man gaming" and more

Theres multiple, just because people prefer something over the other options, doesn't mean it's a monopoly

It takes like 3 seconds to search

"Steam alternatives"

[tranquil obsidian]

arent steam currently being sued over their monopoly

[limpid vessel]

Steam simp

[tranquil obsidian]

just double checked; theyre currently being charged with violations of competition law after allegedly requiring developers to lock prices across steam alternatives

[grand falcon]

Wasn't Johny Depp tooken to court for abusing Amber? See how that turned out?

[tranquil obsidian]

except this is a criminal matter

[grand falcon]

So is domestic violence

And so is false accusations of said domestic violence

[tranquil obsidian]

okay

theyre still going to court though

[grand falcon]

Again, it takes 3 seconds to search "steam alternatives"

[grand falcon]

And? Innocent until proven guilty

[tranquil obsidian]

takes the same time to look up the court case theyre currently involved in that shows those "steam alternatives" are being price locked by steam which is a crime if true

[teal iron]

Personally I am deeply concerned by steam's monopoly

[tranquil obsidian]

" just because people prefer something over the other options, doesn't mean it's a monopoly"

most countries, the UK for example is one of the countries charging valve, dont require complete control. they only require a dominant position, and unfair practices to maintain that.

[teal iron]

like sure it's all fun and games now but when gabe kicks a bucket and some corpo shareholders get ahold of the company
we're all going to be sorry we celebrated their market dominance

I have similar feelings about Unreal Engine except there is no "when x retires" because the corpos already own Epic Games

Steam library sharing
GONE
Online play
SUBSCRIPTION
Steam workshop
COSTS MONEY (for you)
The user interface
RUINED

that's my prediction for the minute, the second Gabe stops owning Valve and/or Steam

[grand falcon]

@tranquil obsidian

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/594661998915223583/1327709729434107914/Screenshot_2025-01-11-13-43-40-63_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg?ex=67840d8b&is=6782bc0b&hm=cc6f965d6b1dd6d5ed31445f5daa52d6a3f1e1b4408cddd0c75fae30334d4108&

[tranquil obsidian]

i mean, Gabe is the guy who invented lootboxes so hes not exactly a saint =p

[teal iron]

it's a shame that it's like this I would prefer there not be a competition or a market here because that would just be a headache
Imagine having to keep 6 separate programs on your computer just for launching, buying, and downloading content for video games

[limpid vessel]

Ain't no way you unironically posted a reddit post as "evidence"

[teal iron]

but the reality is that capability matters a whole lot more than intent and I am deeply bothered by Steam's capability at this juncture

[grand falcon]

And wheres your "evidence" that steam is price fixing?

[limpid vessel]

I'm not the one who said it.

[tranquil obsidian]

this does NOT help your argument; this is LITERALLY what they are in court for. you arent allowed to tell developers how much they can sell their game for on othr platforms.

[sick flame]

I thought developers set the prices

[grand falcon]

Please read it

That's not what it said at all

[tranquil obsidian]

yes it is

[grand falcon]

They do

[teal iron]

Technically I think publishers do

[tranquil obsidian]

it used the term "price fixing" but thats not what theyre being fined for. that post created a strawman, then attacked it

[grand falcon]

If a game is sold on steam for $40

And sold on epic for $20

Steam is ALLOWED to match that $20

That's not price fixing, that's called being competitive

[tranquil obsidian]

theyre being charged with price manipulation and pricing restrictions. NOT "price fixing"

[tranquil obsidian]

thats not it; steam is requiring the devs to offer that price.

[sick flame]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1273013846117843060/1327710710062649374/image.png?ex=67840e74&is=6782bcf4&hm=6066a40f2d490f65ce5d1e33a005e51cd65fec6037c8dc724eda42c384b8532c&
well, here go again

[tranquil obsidian]

if a dev says "im selling for $25 on steam, but $20 on epic, and steam lowers it to $20 to match, its anti-trust.

[grand falcon]

Ah so your making up shit up now

Originally you said price fixing, and now your saying they aren't price fixing

If you can't keep lies straight, then don't lie in the first place

This is why "innocent until proven guilty" is a thing and not "people on the Internet get to decide if someone is guilty based on feelings and opinions"

[tranquil obsidian]

"gothic must"?

[grand falcon]

No it's not LOL

[sick flame]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1273013846117843060/1327711067291385937/image.png?ex=67840eca&is=6782bd4a&hm=ad6c33aea37297b84479badd92d12a09eb4400930cd54ed0418e6f667893b4a2&

[tranquil obsidian]

it layman's terms, "price fixing" isnt literally wrong. however, when it gets to court the actual legal distinction is price manipulation or price restricting.

[limpid vessel]

It litterally is

[tranquil obsidian]

when the conversation moves to the courtroom, its formal to use the legal terms

[grand falcon]

No it's not

Price matching is not illegal

Companies making a settlement to not go above or below, is what's illegal, which steam is not doing

[sick flame]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1273013846117843060/1327711697745739917/image.png?ex=67840f60&is=6782bde0&hm=696946c42c6f0b8a85ec7da3a78b4577c46ac69098f8e83edfa16400f64b6fa1&

[cunning shadow]

meh overworld has limited 3d models and no open world and not live action, not my type of game

[grand falcon]

If price matching, is illegal, then literally every single store would be shut down instantly

[tranquil obsidian]

here is why its illegal;
-a developer doesnt want to use steam anymore, so they move to, lets say, epic.
-they bring their games and offer them at 30% off to try and get a market set up on epic
-steam knock the price down to 30% to match it, removing the incentive to move to the other platform
-the dev is efectively restricted in where they can sell their wares

-the law protects the developer by allowing them to choose where they can give the best deals.

[sick flame]

I wonder if people are leaving Steam because of price changes and moving to another launcher

[grand falcon]

You don't have to sell your games on steam LOL

Like you said, if a dev wants to move to a different store, they 100% can, there is no legal binding to stay on steam

You can remove your game from steam at any point

Price matching, is not illegal

[tranquil obsidian]

you dont burn your posessions and then move house

[grand falcon]

Again, if price matching was illegal, literally every single company would be shut down

[tranquil obsidian]

thats not whats happening; whats happening is steam is deciding what prices the dev can set and not the developer,.

[grand falcon]

Devs lose literally nothing if they remove their games from steam

And neither do the customers

If a game is removed from steam, you still have full access to that game, shit I have fable 3 on steam, and that shits been removed for a long ass time, and I can still download it

[tranquil obsidian]

some people wont make the switch, and devs dont know if the switching weill pay off. so they sell their game on steam as a safety net, then offer it cheaper elsewhere to try and incentivise following them onto the new platform

because steam can just "nope" that, they are able to remove that incentive at will, and preserve a hold on the market

[grand falcon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/594661998915223583/1327712698674188340/Screenshot_2025-01-11-13-56-04-57_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg?ex=6784104f&is=6782becf&hm=fef1e96b59bff96babb35886ee006639fc1374d22805e1e16fee2ecacfd886c1&

[tranquil obsidian]

yes. the DEVELOPER company is free to set its own prices.

but steam is forcing them to sell at their prices

[grand falcon]

The company is steam

[tranquil obsidian]

no, steam is the distributer

[limpid vessel]

Man, it's crazy gabe made a discord account to argue on the palworld discord

[tranquil obsidian]

lmao

QUICK, COUNT TO THREE

[limpid vessel]

Lol

[grand falcon]

So tell me

Who set the price for palworld

Pocket pair, or steam

[tranquil obsidian]

pocket pair i believe

[limpid vessel]

See they can't do it!

[grand falcon]

So you just proved yourself wrong

Steam isn't forcing prices on developers

Pocket pair is a indi company, which means it would be EXTREMELY easy to bully into selling at whatever price the bigger company wants

[tranquil obsidian]

?????

did you follow any of this conversation?

[teal iron]

what is donnie on about

[grand falcon]

You claimed, steam forces the prices for games

If pocket pair decided their price

Then that means steam isn't forcing prices

[limpid vessel]

I'm saying A person is Gabe in disguise

[teal iron]

who is a person

[tranquil obsidian]

using palworld as an example;

-pocketpair sells the game for $30 on steam
-it then sells it for $25 on epic
-valve says "you must sell it for $25 here too, or we remove the game"

this is what valve is being sued for.

[grand falcon]

Yes that's called being competitive

Welcome to marketing

[limpid vessel]

Is it someone you have blocked

[tranquil obsidian]

devs are supposed to pick the price, so tel a dev "you must sell at X price" is illegal

[limpid vessel]

Gabe detected

[tranquil obsidian]

thats not "competitive2 its anti-competitive as you arent allowing competition

[teal iron]

i don't block people donnie

i block and ignore

it does wonders for my emotional health

[grand falcon]

No, it would be illegal if

1. The 2 different companies/distributors made a deal to do it

Or

2. That distributor/company, is the only place the product is being sold at

I don't think you understand marketing or laws.....

[tranquil obsidian]

theyre all illegal

[grand falcon]

Matching prices, is quite literally what every company does

Anti-compative, would be making deals with the comparators, to not be competitive

For example

That's say I own Walmart, and you own Walgreens

We both sell "lays sour cream and onion chips"

If you and me had a meeting, as owners, and I paid you to not undersell me, that would be illegal

However, if I see you selling your chips for $10, and I'm selling them for $20, I'm allowed to move the price down to $10(or even below), to be competitive WITHOUT making deals with you

[tranquil obsidian]

not an accurate analogy.

this would be like opening a mcdonalds in a shopping mall and selling burgers for $5, then running a burger cart where you sell them for $4 outside, and then the shopping mall tells you "you must sell them for $4 inside too, or we throw you out"

[grand falcon]

They're allowed to do that, as it's private property LOL

That's like saying a store can't kick you out for being loud in the store

[tranquil obsidian]

and thats why its anti competitive. it removes my ability to offer an alternative, resulting in the mall having a monopoly.

they are using a dominant position to control the market

[worldly gate]

... Wait, so you own the MCD and the burger cart?

[grand falcon]

Nope, because you can move your "cart" right outside the private property, and sell there

[tranquil obsidian]

its a special mcd burger cart

[worldly gate]

Why would you purposely sell lower than your own store?

[limpid vessel]

Same reason airports do. They sell higher for convenience

[grand falcon]

Like I said

He doesn't understand the law or fair marketing practices

[tranquil obsidian]

an airport would have probably been a beter example, yeah =p

you are fixated on the idea that a company must own everything to be a monopoly, and thats not how legal monopolies works.

[grand falcon]

Wrong again, that's not even close to what I've said AT ALL

[grand falcon]

For what your claiming steam is doing, to be illegal:

1. Steam would have to be the ONLY store, which they aren't

Or

2. Steam would have to make deals/agreements with the other stores(such as epic games), which they quite literally haven't done

[worldly gate]

Airport works only because you're paying extra for the convenience of having the item there, at that time.
Same way with "one hour shipping", for example.

[grand falcon]

He's trying to argue that price matching, is illegal

(Which it isn't)

[tranquil obsidian]

this is not the exhaustive list. here is the TFEU 102 for example;
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX%3A12008E102

its not price fixing, its anti trust violations of the TFEU competition laws

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX%3A12008E101%3AEN%3AHTML

"1.(a): directly or indirectly fix purchase or selling prices or any other trading conditions;"

PRICE FIXING IS ILLEGAL UNDER ATRICLE 101, 1.(a) OF THE TFEU

[worldly gate]

Price matching done without cooperation between the parties, is legal.
You sell something for 5$, guy down the street sells for 4$, then you drop to 4$, is legal.
You move to 4$, guy down the street calls up, says "hey, I'll sell at 5$ too if you put your price back to 5$.", is illegal.
Your mom comes over, sees you at 5$, the guy down the street selling for 4$, and bonks you going "sell for 4$, you're not gonna make any money for the family!", is legal.

[tranquil obsidian]

this isnt whats happening;
-dev sells at store A for $5
-the same dev sells at a diferent store for $4
-store A forces the dev to sell at $4 at their store or they cant sell at that store anymore

[worldly gate]

That's legal.

[grand falcon]

"directly or indirectly imposing unfair purchase or selling prices or other unfair trading conditions", steam has the same prices then epic games(sometimes you even get better deals on epic games, shit I got a $70 game for free on epic)

" limiting production, markets or technical development to the prejudice of consumers" steam doesn't have any limits on who can/can't buy the products

"applying dissimilar conditions to equivalent transactions with other trading parties, thereby placing them at a competitive disadvantage" which again, steam isn't doing(this would be paying another party, such as epic games, to sell their version at a higher price then steam, which steam is not doing)

"making the conclusion of contracts subject to acceptance by the other parties of supplementary obligations which, by their nature or according to commercial usage, have no connection with the subject of such contracts" this would be steam paying or making deals with other companies, such as epic, to have the same pricing, which again steam isn't doing

[worldly gate]

"My service, an online platform for game selling, does not see a cut of the profit from your game, while providing advertisement and support, because you sell it elsewhere cheaper. Drop the price or I stop supporting it."

[tranquil obsidian]

youre literally describing coercion

[grand falcon]

Exactly, like kitrat literally has no idea how the law works or how marketing works

[worldly gate]

By that definition, you're being coercive in trying to convince us of other ideas.

[tranquil obsidian]

coercion requires a threat

[worldly gate]

Of some sort of injury. While usually physical, it can be psychological or monetary.
However, "sell it at the same price as your other places" does not cause injury if the same profit is had by the owner of the objects being sold.

[grand falcon]

Exactly

[tranquil obsidian]

the issue is, this case is multifaceted; the threat would stifle competition as being able to sell your game lower elsewhere gives you market mobility.

[worldly gate]

If Steam was saying "you must sell at 1% less than everywhere else, or be kicked off", that would be coercive behavior.
They're saying "keep it a level buying field."

[tranquil obsidian]

and the argument being put forward is that by forcing the market to be equal, they are exploiting a dominant position

[worldly gate]

Dominant, but not monopoly.
GOG provides "you actually own it" services for their games.
Epic... I mean, do they even have a "basket" function yet? All they have are "free" game giveaways.
Others, not sure.

[tranquil obsidian]

for legal purposes, only dominant is required.

theyre known as "monopoly" laws, but in reality theyre referred to as "competition" laws

[grand falcon]

Then Walmart, Krogers, Walgreens, mjier, and sams, and all the other big companies are illegal

Because there's smaller unknown companies, that are over shadowed and become bankrupt, due to not making sales

[tranquil obsidian]

dunno how you do it in america, but in europe we actually have rules and laws specficially for that; supermarkets for example have strict regulation on where they can build their locations

it is illegal to build a supermarket in certain locations such as villages

[grand falcon]

Again, what steam does, is price matching

You don't even know what your arguing, first you said steam was "price fixing" and then you said "steam isn't price fixing"

[worldly gate]

And there is competition.
GOG focuses on providing support for older games, and non-DRM stuff so you actually own your game.
Steam has solid forums and community.
Epic... 🤷
Then look at Google and Apple, selling games on their phones.

[tranquil obsidian]

epic has lower cut for devs; they take less than steam

[grand falcon]

And? That's called competition

[worldly gate]

Please keep on point.
Moving to zoning laws is just distracting...

[tranquil obsidian]

they "shrugged" at epic, so i was just telling them one thing epic has

[worldly gate]

Yea, they're providing a better offer for devs, which impacts where developers put their games.

[grand falcon]

Tell me

Where would you sell your product:

Walmart: you sell for $30 and only get $10 in return due to having to pay for shelf space and everything else

Or

A ma and pa shop: where you sell for $20, but get $15 in return

[tranquil obsidian]

which ties back into how this case started; devs wanted to move to epic and because epic takes a small cut, they wanted to give that cut to the players, so reduced its price on epic.
steam said they must offer the same cut on steam, but that would eat into their profits as they'd still lose 30% to steam.
as such, steam was requiring the devs to give up profit or stay on steam

[worldly gate]

So why not stop using Steam?

[grand falcon]

Because kitrat thinks, people ONLY use steam

[sick flame]

[grand falcon]

And thanks steam is the ONLY store

[grand falcon]

Like I told him, there is no legal binding contract to have your game on steam

You can easily use steam to grow your game, and then move to another store, such as epic, and bring your fan base with you

[tranquil obsidian]

ill try to provide some maths for an example;
game sells for $50, steam takes $15 (makes $35)
game sells on epic for $50, epic takes $6 (makes $44)
dev reduces the price to $40, epic takes $4.80 (makes $35.20)

steam demand dev sells for $40, steam takes $12 (makes $28)

so basically, if they want to sell on epic and make the same money, saving the customer money in the end, steam punished them by cutting their income by 20% ($35>$28)

Devs are suing because it isnt fair that wanting to benefit the end-user is getting them punished by steam
the EU got involve because this harms the end-user (the market) and so because the consumer doesnt benefit from this practice, they declare it illegal

[worldly gate]

And what services does Steam provide?

[solid sun]

Gothic games, hmm, what I'm thinking of is likely not what they actually mean.

[tranquil obsidian]

im explaining why the suit is happening.

[worldly gate]

And I'm explaining why Steam is going to say "our cut being X is fine because we're providing a lot more service that they don't get elsewhere, and the developers need to make the decision if they want to use our extra features or not, it will come from their pockets".

[tranquil obsidian]

effectively, devs are being fined 20% of their profits if they want to sell on a different market for the same profit

[grand falcon]

And why it'll be dismissed with nothing happening*

[worldly gate]

Think of it this way:
They can sell in store A for 5$, and spend 5$ on advertising, community support, more sales... or, they can sell in store B for 5$ and have none of that.

[tranquil obsidian]

in this instance, they were happy to get the same profit; (35 versus 35.20) and the end result is the consumer gets a cheaper game.

[grand falcon]

Exactly

It costs valve way more to keep steam up and running, compared to epic

[tranquil obsidian]

in order to meet steams demand, they would have to give up $7 on every steam sale

[grand falcon]

It's like saying Xbox live and PlayStation+ is illegal

Because they are forcing you to pay extra to use features that PC players get for free

[tranquil obsidian]

math is hard?

[worldly gate]

Steam is providing more in turn for offering it on their store. That's their defense, and why this won't work.

Devs could sell it on their own webpage, and take 100% of the profit.
There, no game store should exist, because Devs are losing money, according to your math and logic.

[tranquil obsidian]

"competitors must sell at our price because we offer a better service" doesnt sound like a very strong argument for them

[grand falcon]

Literally every market/store does that LOL

Do you think it's free to advertise? Do you think it's free to run a service?

[worldly gate]

"Competitors must sell at the same price as elsewhere, because a lower price elsewhere means they're unfairly taking advantage of our advertising and support system, while not reimbursing us for the costs."

[tranquil obsidian]

they get 30% of the sales.

[worldly gate]

And in turn, have a mature sales program that offers community management, guides, social networking (kinda)...

[tranquil obsidian]

but they want to sell on two storefronts

[worldly gate]

So, they can.
But the storefronts can also just say "we don't want to sell your stuff".

[tranquil obsidian]

and then they get nothing

[worldly gate]

So?

[tranquil obsidian]

so?

thats it

[grand falcon]

And??? A store doesn't HAVE to sell your product

For example, if Walmart wanted to, they could stop selling lays chips

[tranquil obsidian]

okay

[grand falcon]

People these days think they are entitled to whatever they want

[tranquil obsidian]

like steam is entitled to choose the game's price?

[grand falcon]

You already admitted they don't

You said pocket pair chose their price

[tranquil obsidian]

exactly

it should be the devs, not steam, that choose the price

[worldly gate]

I would suggest reading up on Externalities.

[tranquil obsidian]

and thats why theye getting sued

[grand falcon]

So that's not even an argument LOL

Your argument is "steam chooses the price"

But then said "pocket pair chose their price"

[tranquil obsidian]

oh right, that was meant to be a sarcastic question to your statement, lemme add the ?

[worldly gate]

The devs can choose.
Either sell at the price Steam says is fair, or don't on their marketplace.
Steam itself is not forcing the price change without Dev notice.

[grand falcon]

Their getting sued, because devs are allowed to pick their prices?

And that steam is allowed to be competitive with other companies?

[tranquil obsidian]

basically, in order to meet steams demand, the devs must give up 20% of their profits at steam

[grand falcon]

Rat, I bet you think Amber is innocent and dep is guilty

[tranquil obsidian]

to save 18% on epics cuts

[grand falcon]

Crazy it's as if

Steam costs more to run, then epic games

It's as if, one is bigger then the other so its more expensive to run

[tranquil obsidian]

they make a loss unless they stay steam exclusive

the "equal" price isnt equal profits to the dev

[grand falcon]

Again, there is no legal binding agreement with steam

You can freely take your game off steam, and only use epic and other stores

[tranquil obsidian]

theres more money on steam as they have the biggest platform

well, second but we cant name #1

[grand falcon]

So what your saying is:

Steam HAS to lose money, and eventually go bankrupt

While also providing free advertisement, better algorithms, better community support

All for free?

[tranquil obsidian]

they get 30% of sales, thats not free

[worldly gate]

Quick math!
You sell a game for 100$.
Store A takes 50%, Store B takes 20%.
Store A will have 1,000 sales, Store B will have 600 sales.
Which store is best for your profits?

[tranquil obsidian]

both

[grand falcon]

Avoiding the question

Because you know it'll show how dumb you are

[tranquil obsidian]

no, the correct answer is both. why would you only sell on one market

[worldly gate]

Now you sell it at Store B for 99$, and expect to make 50 more sales.
Store A says you either lower the price to 99$ in their store, and thus gain another 100 sales, or you can't sell there.
What do you do?

[tranquil obsidian]

apparently, take them to court

[grand falcon]

Because it's not up to you

It's up to the market

Again, a store doesn't have to sell your product, they can fully decline to sell your product for any reason

[tranquil obsidian]

refusing to sell a product because it was being sold cheaper elsewhere is exactly why theyre being taken to court now

[worldly gate]

How much money do you make in those situations?
Just Store A at 100$, and 99$
Just Store B at 100$, and 99$
Both Stores at the same price (100$, and 99$)

[grand falcon]

Ah so now

It's not price fixing

It's now "refusing to sell products"

If you think refusing to sell a product, is illegal, then you must be a child

[tranquil obsidian]

i see why everyone just gave up talking here lmao youre literally circling around again

[grand falcon]

Then tell me what is steam being sued for

You said it's not price fixing

So what is the reason

[worldly gate]

It's seemed like you've been moving what you've said as points come up against you.

[tranquil obsidian]

because lawsuits arent as simple as "in court for one thing". you are often charged for several things in one go and have to defend every point. this is why youll often hear at the end of a court session "on the charge of...." and they go through a list of guilty and not guiltys

steam are in court for a whole bunch of reasons tied to the same incident;
-they required prices to be set at their discretion (price fixing/manipulation)
-which led to loss of profits if agreed to (anti-trust practices)
-and incentivises remaining on steam exclsuive (anti competition)
-withholding the right of sale if not agreed with (abuse of dominant position)

thats why it keeps "changing"; because theyre not being hit with one charge, its a whole bunch of charges from one action

[grand falcon]

1. "They required prices to be set at their discretion" wrong, devs set their prices, and to stay financially stable, they have to be competitive with other stores

2. "Incentives remaining on steam exclusive", exclusivity is not illegal, if so PlayStation and Microsoft would of been shut down day 1

3. Price agreement with the seller and distributor, is not illegal, and is how EVERY company is ran

[grand falcon]

No it keeps changing, because you don't know the actual law

And have 0 proof to back anything up, just a bunch of hearsay

Infact, you sent a link to the law that steam "broke"

And I proved it wrong

[peak folio]

and court docs

[tranquil obsidian]

hi

[grand falcon]

You mean how the court docs for Nintendo vs palworld

How people listened to YouTubers that "read" the documents, and miss interpreted them, and started spreading miss information?

[peak folio]

https://tenor.com/view/phoenix-wright-ace-attorney-phoenix-wright-read-reading-ace-attorney-phoenix-wright-gif-6625195720948963721

[grand falcon]

Hearing info, from a third party, and stating as fact

Is hear say

[tranquil obsidian]

the above points i gave were from the second party, Milberg LLP

who were the same legal team who won against sony, securing a 5bn payout for breach of competition law

[grand falcon]

Which again, is still hear say

[tranquil obsidian]

how is it hearsay if its literally the team responsible for the lawsuit

"we are suing and heres why"
"thats hearsay"

[grand falcon]

No what's hear say is

"I read this, from these people, and stating it as fact, because Im stuck in my feelings"

Is what's hearsay

[glad needle]

Breach of competition law? What happened in that suit?

[tranquil obsidian]

they are literally the people involved in the case dfirectly

[tranquil obsidian]

https://milberg.co.uk/consumers-win-the-first-battle-against-sony-playstation-as-5bn-competition-claim-gets-the-go-ahead-to-proceed-to-trial/

literally whats happening here; they were forcing developers to charge extra to release on sony

[grand falcon]

That doesn't mean it's fact LOL

They are accusing valve of something, that doesn't mean that it's true

You are stating it as if it is true

What you are doing is hearsay, and misrepresenting information, and technically defamation

[grand falcon]

That doesn't mean they won the law suit LOL

It literally says in the link

"To proceed to trial" LOL

[sick flame]

https://tenor.com/view/phoenix-wright-grin-evidence-heh-cool-guy-gif-22786001

[grand falcon]

Just because something goes to trial doesn't mean it's true LOL

[tranquil obsidian]

lawsuits take a long time

[grand falcon]

After the trial is when something becomes true or false

[tranquil obsidian]

i am literally putting out the facts of why they are being sued

not "they have 100% done this" otherwise it wouldnt be in court

[grand falcon]

So that gives you the green light, to say they are guilty?

Thank God your not a judge or in any legal power

The entire world would be doomed if you were 🤣

[peak folio]

The word you’re looking for here is allegations.

[tranquil obsidian]

hes not reading anymore is he

i think the PW gifs are appropriate because it sounds like theyre on the breakdown segment

[grand falcon]

No, you are stating that steam IS doing those things

Instead of being ACCUSED

Being ACCUSED of something and ACTUALLY doing something is completely different

[tranquil obsidian]

the implication is that it is an accusation. otherwise it wouldnt be in court

[grand falcon]

Being accused of something is an allegation.......y'all really have no idea what your talking about do you.....

[tranquil obsidian]

yeah, theyre allegations, hence why theyre going to court

[grand falcon]

You stated it as a fact as if they are doing it

You literally said "Sony lost"

Which they literally haven't LOL it hasn't even gone to trial yet LOl

Gen z is doomed

Going to trial = automatically guilty

Guess that's how the world works now

(It 100% doesn't work like that)

[tranquil obsidian]

they lost their tribunal

march 2026 the real case is heard

[grand falcon]

and?? you do realize that quite literly means nothing, right? 🤣 all that emans is that its going to court LOL

[tranquil obsidian]

okay

[peak folio]

https://x.com/screentime/status/1878049217064886306

ScreenTime (@screentime) on X

The original 'RESIDENT EVIL 4' game released 20 years ago today

Twitter · Jan 11, 2025, 12:00 PM

https://tenor.com/view/marvel-thor-chris-hemsworth-infinity-war-my-back-gif-12272823

[tranquil obsidian]

thanks for reminding me im old

[sick flame]

https://fixupx.com/NintyPrime/status/1878087789188653147

[full mountain]

Okay but that's the fault of the other competitors for not doing enough to make a client that makes players want to move from steam

which, i'll admit, is hard to do since steam has had 20+ years of development

[teal iron]

I mean not really

The digital age has caused a new and terrifying threat to the FTC's goals to rear its head
ANd that's a thing called a "Natural Monopoly"

[full mountain]

Steam has alot of fail safes in it to stop corrupt share holders from fucking over the end users. Licensing and stuff

[teal iron]

It is inevitable that social medias and digital storefronts will become a monopoly

all the money and all the expertise and all the marketing in the world cannot create a consistent competition because people simply do not want a competition, a competition is often to the detriment of end users, so they naturally conglomerate

[full mountain]

i would like to think most users like competition because it forces positive change and better features being put forward

[teal iron]

Epic games could make the best storefront you've ever seen but the only two possible outcomes are them failing anyway or them becoming the new monopoly

[full mountain]

which is why people fuggin' HATE how dominant Nvidia is in the gfx card industry

including me, btw

i want AMD to swing back but holy shit they struggle doing so

[teal iron]

Users don't want competition, they want a Good Deal (or, alternatively, a Better Deal)
And if everyone is offering their own Deals and those Deals all have exclusives, then none of them will ever be Good Enough

[full mountain]

then wtf do you want? you complain about steam being too dominate but then say a competitor can ONLY either fail or become a new monopoly

you're not even trying to think optimistically here

[teal iron]

I never said I want steam to change, just that I am worried about the possible futures

In fact I would be perfectly content if everything remained as it is now

[full mountain]

well, as time moves on, steam is gonna keep adding on cool features (the replay feature they have is kinda sick ngl) and epic is also gonna keep adding stuff on to their client

[teal iron]

Steam offers an excellent UX, unbeatable catalog, and is generally extremely consumer friendly

[sick flame]

I haven't even been alive for over 100 years

[full mountain]

i just disagree with the notion that steam already has a monopoly when there are plenty of other competitors on the market

[teal iron]

but like that's just because they have extremely good leadership who sees all this power and says "let's use this to give people a Good Deal"

[sick flame]

Even if the CEO dies of old age, someone will take over Steam anyway

[teal iron]

and it's only a matter of time before someone comes into a position of power who says "I want MORE money, and I don't care what it takes to get it"

[full mountain]

DUDE RIGHT?!

idk why so many mother fuckers here say "blocking is for pansies" bitch if someone annoys me that much, why just ignore them when i can block AND ignore them?

some call it overkill, i call it insurance

sorry just wanted to say that rq

[full mountain]

idk what "unfair practices" valve is doing to keep their "monopoly" but if the UK or EU find issue with valve and some juicy info comes to light about it all, i'll gladly eat my words and admit i was wrong.

But im just explaining my opinion based on what i see atm

[full mountain]

that's a fair fear, i'll admit, but im just talking about the now, because that's all i can deduce for

Steam already a good few failsafes in place

[sick flame]

I wonder if the EU is interested in the gaming industry? Because I don't think so.

[full mountain]

i mean its all buisness, if something shady is going on that's hurting consumers in the EU and it makes enough noise they're on it

but yes, what im trying to say is

@limpid vessel @teal iron you all are dumb, i am the only smart one here (of course), and wil put another notch on the wall on my "Discord arguments won" tally, good day.

also, Blocked.

(I'm joking :p)

[teal iron]

I know exactly who you're parodying and I love it

[limpid vessel]

Wut

[full mountain]

wat

am i parodying someone? im just jokingly pretending to be a chronically online debate brain nerd lmao

[teal iron]

Also @limpid vessel https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1020143173391110205/1326692902503583814/BrowserPreview_tmp.gif?ex=6783a64c&is=678254cc&hm=32937dd63f4859890a9f4b875fcb045212292d61f7418e6a5a8f560475e2af00&

[full mountain]

GabeN is awesome fuck you

His favorite class is the Spy

[limpid vessel]

I mean it >:)

[hard peak]

GabeN has his moments, but no one alive can always be an angel.

[limpid vessel]

So the his favorite role is the backstabber.....interesting

[hard peak]

And in comparison to some, one has to agree he would be the Lesser Evil.

[teal iron]

tbh steam is fine rn but I'm more worried about the growing market dominance of unreal engine
The fact that they say "f-ck you install 70GB engine to make mods" instead of giving developers seemingly any way to create better modding tools tells me all I need to know about what kind of company they are

A company that is concerned with profit, and nothing else

The last thing I want is for Unreal Engine to become a standard

They gonna pull a unity or worse

[grand falcon]

@tranquil obsidianhey can i test your legal knowledge real quick?

[hard peak]

Unreal ain't even that good, not to mention it is incorrectly optimized.

I have an RTX 3060, and I have huge lag spikes while playing UE5.

Not to mention it is a serious pain just getting the game to launch normally.

[teal iron]

I think the "optimization and performance!!!" arguments are just
Game devs these days are bad at optimization

[sick flame]

There are various reasons for lags, even Windows updates ruin the optimization

[grand falcon]

"playing ue5" you mean using UE5?

or fo yuou mean playing a game made in UE5? because if its a game made in UE5, then that means nothing, because some games are optimized better then others

[teal iron]

Satisfactory lets me do things that I am absolutely positive should be obliterating my framerate and it's like
Marginal loss at best

[hard peak]

Well, true. I played the Silent Hill 2 Remake, which is supposed to be astoundingly badly optimized.

[teal iron]

Unreal Engine makes it very easy to make a game that turns on and has graphics but it still takes a LOT of time, planning, skill, and money to make that game run good and most devs either lack those things or don't care

[grand falcon]

then your argument is instatnly invalid

[hard peak]

Though I was told it is meant to be the peak of UE5.

[sick flame]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1273013846117843060/1327762473046245476/image.png?ex=67843eaa&is=6782ed2a&hm=f6de4658e2478e3e962137aafc2124c041fc201eb9c15bb517846e9771cda825&

[teal iron]

Like I said, satisfactory, a UE5.4 game, runs incredibly well
I do get some performance issues but I play on Ultra settings on a laptop

[hard peak]

Seems to be that last option, as the tech team behind the Silent Hill 2 Remake apparently wants to step back now.

[teal iron]

and I build some incredibly disastrous factories

[grand falcon]

and who did yoiu hear that from?

[teal iron]

I think the difference between palworld running like a slideshow when I stand in a base with 20 pals and Satisfactory running at 40fps on Ultra Everything in the middle of Nightmare Death Pain And Suffering Central Production (Easily a hundred times more visually and logistically complex) is that Satisfactory put an enormous amount of time and care into optimizing the game and Palworld is barely a year old

[sick flame]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1273013846117843060/1327763361043054694/image.png?ex=67843f7d&is=6782edfd&hm=f6b0ff940c74abbcadb7a87f1c6b28512e67cc47520e118b7cc0d2f4572daa89&

[teal iron]

and I could actually get like 60FPS or more if I turned on DLSS or whatever in satisfactory

I forget why I turned it off

[hard peak]

Gaming News Sites. Might've been Gamesradar or IGN, I cannot remember.

It was like 2 months ago.

[grand falcon]

........so......you believed game journalists?

are you new to gaming?

[hard peak]

Not really. It was not just from "game journalists" either. Some Discord users also told me that, but they had no credentials.

[sick flame]

btw there UE 5.5 already

Even so, there is no one to believe, because all the "non-journalists" have their own different opinions

[hard peak]

And yes, I do know Game Journalists are generally untrustworthy.

[grand falcon]

"Some Discord users also told me that"....this just gets more and more worse the longer this goes.......

[hard peak]

I do agree. I suppose it does boil down to how the development team handles it.

Yeah, sorry about that.

I ain't no developer either to know much about optimization.

[sick flame]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/687252840229634070/1280928972669976616/814093720436736060.webp?ex=6783ef11&is=67829d91&hm=531c0f108a0bb8cd3e6aa2ef09f03459b3e0dbd02e552a5bfea63a39a4f275d2&

[full mountain]

[glad needle]

Yea my favorite is Medic

Spies are a nightmare for Medics. For anyone really. I look at stealth classes like an arachnophobe looks at spiders

I cant tell you how many times I called for Spy to be nerfed

[glacial idol]

however I dont reccomend using it

it has numerous issues at the moment

I'd stick to UE5.4.4

[peak folio]

https://x.com/genki_jpn/status/1878127444483584198

Genki✨ (@Genki_JPN) on X

French journalist @JulienTellouck claims that Nintendo sent lawyers to accessory manufacturer Genki’s booth at CES!

“I spoke with the guy from Genki, just behind me. He told me that Nintendo had already sent lawyers their way. But Genki has nothing to worry about because they’ve

Twitter · Jan 11, 2025, 5:10 PM

… But Genki has nothing to worry about because they’ve never signed any papers with Nintendo, no confidentiality agreement, no NDA.”

It seems that Nintendo are already on the case!

https://thegamepost.com/nintendo-lawyers-genki-switch-2-mockup-ces-2025/

[limpid vessel]

thats crazy

[peak folio]

Can’t help but wonder what this accessory maker’s long term plan is. 😅

[royal shuttle]

Free marketing

[teal iron]

Striesand effect

I spelled that wrong

Anyway I beat Forgotten Land (again)

The game is still peak

[full mountain]

Carby

[teal iron]

whar

[simple geyser]

Blurbo

[teal iron]

[full mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/kirby-kirby-car-carby-karby-mouthful-mode-gif-24842530

[teal iron]

Kirby will never be vroomin

[simple geyser]

Nintendo turning this into a 2,500$ hat for your car.

[tough comet]

Kirby tasting metal and rust

[barren sierra]

mmm iron supplements

[teal iron]

No pain no gain, and in this case the gain is vroom vroom

[limpid vessel]

mmmmm car vore...

[full mountain]

https://media1.tenor.com/m/apndroOMV4kAAAAd/queens-of-the-stone-age-red.gif

[hollow patrol]

guys help me haha how i can unlock that XD? https://puu.sh/KmdH0.png

[rustic basin]

E

[teal iron]

Unimplemented skin

[rustic basin]

wait its Unimplemented? i thought it was a custom one.

well its probbly going to be a twitch drop or something like that then

[humble parrot]

Morning

[icy pecan]

Maybe it is maybe it isn't

[humble parrot]

Dawn and dusk are the same but what comes after them is what defines them?

[icy pecan]

What if it's dawsuk

[humble parrot]

[night plume]

Dawn - The last moment vampires have to find cover before death.
Dusk - warns people the vampires are waking and it is too late.

[humble parrot]

[barren sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/uv-light-jojo-jjba-kakyoin-take-this-dio-gif-20374034

[peak folio]

That’s certainly the short term plan.

[wispy swift]

is this the official?

[hard peak]

I am at a loss for how I could counter an argument that Palworld is AI Generated.

I was asked for sketches, which I did (the ones from that magazine thing), and they refuted by saying they aren't hand-drawn...

I personally think it doesn't NEED to be hand-drawn anymore.

[humble parrot]

2021 development date

[hard peak]

Plus, Valve's Steam Policy states that developers need to put up a warning if their game has AI Generated Content.

They correctly mentioned that Pocketpair could've just omitted that info, but something tells me Valve would be checking.

They would have verification systems in place.

Because Valve may not be the smartest game devs on the planet, but they aren't fools either.

[humble parrot]

So what's the proof that Palworld is AI generated

Because so far, I've only seen some 2 - 3 tweets of Takuro going "wow this is cool" some 4 years ago

[hard peak]

Apparently the CEO's support of it, and the fact that apparently there is no hand-draw concept sketches.

I say there doesn't need to be. Digital Art is a thing.

Also, wouldn't the files' Metadata say if it is AI Generated or not?

[humble parrot]

That isn't proof of anything

We know Pocketpair has artists

[hard peak]

I do agree, and if it was, Valve would almost certainly know of it.

[humble parrot]

Most of the designs are from 2021

And earlier

In 2021, no one had AI good enough to make a viable product

[hard peak]

I do think they check the games before they are permitted to go onto sale in Steam.

[humble parrot]

People were making memes with dall-e

[hard peak]

Is there like any time stamps on concept art or anything?

Because I do need more "direct" proof.

To refute their arguments anyway.

[humble parrot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqTJFhbo9zY

[hard peak]

I personally don't think Palworld is AI-Generated because otherwise Valve would have forced them to put the warning.

[humble parrot]

The trailer already had a lot of finalized design that are still in use in the game

And those are already done 3D models

They would've had to be made in 2020 to be done in time.

Going through a standard design pipeline of drafts > internal voting > design changes > 3D design > 3D modelling/texturing

No one had an AI good enough in 2020 for that

[hard peak]

Even to AI-Generate reference pictures, right?

At the time, I wasn't really paying attention to AI Art.

[humble parrot]

And by then, Pocketpair was too small and insignificant to have any special access to experimental models

[humble parrot]

There wasn't anything

People were using dall-e, chatGPT didn't exist

And Dall-e gave you some tiny 9 pics that barely made any sense

[hard peak]

Oh, it was still around that time?

I did try out Crayon, or "Dall-E Lite" sometime in mid-2022. I assume that was the state of Dall-E in 2020.

[humble parrot]

It was worse lol

So the dates don't matchup for Ai-generated designs

And the "proof" is the CEO saying "oh wow thats cool" in some tweets that, if I remember correctly, were posted after the game had started development...

Maybe even posted after the first trailer

[hard peak]

Yeah, if I remember correctly, they dated the posts to 2021.

Well now, I'll see if this is good enough evidence.

This has only convinced me further.

[humble parrot]

I don't think it'll convince them, but it doesn't matter

I'm pretty sure when TPC starts doing AI-generated designs they will all go praise them for it

Brand cultism is awful

[hard peak]

Perhaps.

[hard peak]

This is absolutely true though.

For instance, I used to love a company called FragLab due to their game combining my favorite aspects into one single playable experience, but when they made that one fatal decision, I (along with what I am told is roughly half of the development team) gave up, I went home.

Even today, it still makes me slightly bitter.

It is right to love, cherish and support a company, but wrong to followthem without checking what is in front of you.

[peak folio]

Calling real artists AI is kind of the in thing to do rn

Case in point

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1089925550572834947/1327705669872390154/image0.jpg?ex=6784b283&is=67836103&hm=57425e6ab808857fbbf5aa972bd7afe6c581b7138423c66265fb9837f0debf34&

Somebody makes an accusation and then it’s guilty even if proven innocent.

Not much can be done about the deranged, but they’re hurting a lot of people.

[hard peak]

I do agree.

I will admit it is getting harder to distinguish the two.

But that doesn't mean an artist is automatically an AI Faker.

[peak folio]

They call out things that aren’t even ai artifacts to begin with.

[hard peak]

I did plan on using AI to illustrate one of my earlier novels. I didn't because they were... Lackluster.

Keep in mind, this was in 2022, and most of my characters tend to be fairly complex in text.

I used to have a decent eye for AI Generated things. Now I am starting to fall behind.

Does not mean I will frown upon it too much because AI Art is simply an inevitability at this point.

[peak folio]

https://fixupx.com/dexerto/status/1875547920201871494

It’s hard to say. Some displacement os inevitable, it’s already happening even before we know how exactly the indiscriminate methods of training are going to be held accountable (as there are open cases over it), but they’re hurting immediate threat seems to be people defaming real artists for it as it’s happening everywhere.

People hell bent on Palworld designs being AI generated when many were shown before generative AI art was even demonstrated and yet weirdos aren’t having it. 😆

[hard peak]

So it would seem.

I don't even think a company is required to state their inspirations out loud, or show off their conceptual sketches for that matter.

Plus, it doesn't have to be on paper. We are in the digital age currently, and Digital Art is a thing.

[peak folio]

I’m sure many companies would like to.

[grand falcon]

Welcome to the gen Z era, inorder to stay

You need to reduce your IQ to 1

[grand falcon]

Someone that hates AI art, just shows they aren't creative or unique

AI makes art based on existing art

Aka, can't create something completely brand spanking new

Actual artists, are able to create completely unique and new art

Such as "The Starry Night"

Or

"The Persistence of Memory"

[grand falcon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/594661998915223583/1328047049974743118/IMG20250112111907.jpg?ex=678547b2&is=6783f632&hm=a4f644cdf055eacf5ee6f42165d5184808540176ae4f859f4f7756980ed5acd2&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/594661998915223583/1328047050637709482/IMG20250112111931.jpg?ex=678547b2&is=6783f632&hm=f0370bbd6887365b0e08523be134ba50e7c0caab85dcfecb1e5abcb41586c823&

[barren sierra]

oh shit is that a Nanuc

[sick flame]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/682227584087490573/1328054884066398281/472712217_122191406702132042_738456029456087447_n.jpg?ex=67854efe&is=6783fd7e&hm=f85a6846da8793bbf8af5102c110bc88d5fa1f7e64d7613f7d1c2edc996d6346&

[wispy swift]

I cant talk in the Pal general, its stuck on 04 seconds and I cant type in there

[teal iron]

I remember when it was first being public I asked someone with access to put in primarinabee as a joke and all but one image was of some Greek statues for some reason
The other was an actual bee

[peak folio]

Try reloading Discord (ctrl+r on desktop, though don’t do that if you’re in a voice call anywhere).

[wispy swift]

thanks

[grand falcon]

No, it's an apchee 4800

It's one of the best cases on the market(IMO)

[royal shuttle]

AI art by definition is real art, for anyone looking for a detailed breakdown as to how that is, LiquidZulu posted a video going over every argument against AI art and their faulty, underlying premises.

[hearty sonnet]

Came out of nowhere with that lol

[royal shuttle]

Whoops, it looks like I forgot to hit reply before sending, my bad.

[royal shuttle]

It was meant to be a comment on this discussion that was a short scroll up in the channel.

[royal shuttle]

I say this genuinely, it's not a bait message. The arguments against AI art are fundamentally flawed and faulty.

[kindred sleet]

In a place such as this with people that truly hates AI you will find no one gonna listen to you lol

[royal shuttle]

I get that in the process of lowering the barrier to entry for new artists, a number of them will just be lazy with it, but that was true for each previous art tool in the past.

It's just more fearmongering and elitism.

[kindred sleet]

Good luck having a convo with them

[brazen storm]

Elaborate

I was relatively neutral about AI art in the beginning, but now I'm watching it become a symbol of laziness, buzzwords, and it discourages people from actually learning to make things with their thoughts and hands.

I know that it definitely has some uses, especially in making certain difficult aspects of art more convenient, but too many people are using it as a crutch imo

[royal shuttle]

The main claim of "theft" operates on the premise that art can be stolen in the same way that physical property can. Theft is defined around the relationship between conflicting interests and uses over scarce goods, and when the rightful owner of that property is deprived of it by another party who is not the rightful owner of it. Downloading a publicly posted digital art to add to a training set for a neural network does not deprive the original artist of the image that was posted. Copying is not theft as it does not deprive scarce goods from another interested party.

So it boils down to the IP/copyright argument which fails ethical analysis in the framework of what constitutes property, as to enforce it, would impose on the property rights of others, telling A he cannot write with his own paper and his own ink, as the thinker has already made a similar arrangement. Even if ignore the fact that AI image models do not in fact collage training data, nor store the training data itself within the finished model, it would still not constitute "theft" as the fair use defense would apply as it would be a transformative use of the publicly posted work, especially since the neural networks learn in the same mechanism that humans do, just on a faster scale. Observation, and practice in re-creating the style.

[humble parrot]

That one will be decided in courts

[royal shuttle]

The matter of an individual user breaking a model to somehow spit out something that's a near copy of an existing work and trying to impersonate that artist claiming to be that same artist is a matter of fraud, not the underlying tool itself.

[humble parrot]

It's currently in process

[royal shuttle]

Considering the case precendent in other transformative works in the past, as well as the lack of ability to copyright plain results of algorythmic generation, I think it's fair say that simply typing "tree" and posting the result would only be as artistic as someone taking a decent camera and pointing it at a tree and posting a less-than-changed photo and calling it art. It's the creative input of the user, selection process, change in settings, manual correction, posing choice, color correction and other artistic inputs that make an AI generated image something artistic.

The "effort" someone puts into a work is different between person to person, and the labor theory of value doesn't work in regular markets, art less so. If you were to show me a piece of modern or post modern art and an image someone generated using an AI that had applied some sort of artistic vision or goal, I don't think you could blame me for thinking the latter should also be seen as art.

[humble parrot]

The walls you make are irrelevant. In the end, you're not doing what an artist does by using a generator.

[royal shuttle]

I believe you are either deliberately conflating "tree" and what someone actually using the tool is or are unable to understand the difference.

[humble parrot]

EMP hits and your AI is gone, you cannot generate anything at all.
An artist can grab a pencil and a sheet of paper and still create with the same skill shown.

[brazen storm]

You had me until "effort doesn't matter lol" I do get your point with modern/contemporary art though, as I am quite unfond of a banana taped to the wall as the next guy

[humble parrot]

There's the difference between a generator and a tool.

[royal shuttle]

The same argument you just made can be said about photoshop or Krita, but you wouldn't argue that those forms of digital art are invalid.

[royal shuttle]

Nope, AI is a tool, not a final result printer.

[humble parrot]

Photoshop doesn't generate a picture for you

You learn it's tools, and use them

[royal shuttle]

What are you talking about, it literally can

[humble parrot]

You can still do everything without it, even in paint.

Sure, now that Adobe filled it with dataminers

[royal shuttle]

Not to mention that the artist's motions aren't translated 1:1 in photoshop either, thanks to tools like brush stabilizers, or random noise used to determine certain brush patterns.

[humble parrot]

Do you really think that digital artist write a promt and run it through photoshop?

[humble parrot]

Irrelevant, the program is not generating the picture. The artists skill and how they use the tools determines the outcome. And the artist still remains capable of creating without those tools.

[royal shuttle]

Have you actually sat down and tried to get a result you wanted out of Stable Diffusion or SDXL? You are either going to spend hours trying to in-paint the corrections or take the image to Photoshop or a similar program and make manual corrections.

[humble parrot]

Have you actually sat down and tried to draw anything and get good at it?

[royal shuttle]

Not irrelevant, the same elitist arguments were made against photography and photoshop respectively.

[humble parrot]

You have to spend years learning and developing

[humble parrot]

Calling it elitist is disregarding the massive time investment it involves

Honestly, it's gross and rude

[royal shuttle]

And what about those with hand injuries who can't hold a pencil or paint brush but want to make art?

[humble parrot]

They develop their own methods

[fresh shard]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1274000247835721779/1275653988175450214/image0.jpg?ex=67852d9b&is=6783dc1b&hm=16f2f9c970ab9dfe1bd5c8b8754eddec81d5ed424d353d91a6e68cc7d792d178&
i prompted the AI to draw me holding a coffee cup

[kindred sleet]

Sips ☕
Glad I am neutral in this topic lmfao

[royal shuttle]

Apply the same mentality to any technological advancement that made anything recreational or work related easier over that rationale.

[humble parrot]

Accessibility has nothing to do with it. They can still create if they develop their own methods

AI is not a tool. It's a generator.

[kindred sleet]

Now I know you would have done this regardless lol

[humble parrot]

You learnt nothing by using it. You're not capable of creating outside of it

[hearty sonnet]

Me too, but only because I have to be lol

[barren sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/tummy-fat-pouch-funny-belly-gif-25437847

[humble parrot]

Because you have no knowledge.

Because you never learnt anything.

[fresh shard]

stop boinging the cat

[royal shuttle]

You learn nothing of painting by taking a photograph of a landscape, yet you wouldn't go so far as to say such a photograph can't count as art.

[humble parrot]

This is objectively wrong

I learnt a lot simply coloring my pictures

[barren sierra]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/610964378552107010/1328095503665201203/image.png?ex=678574d2&is=67842352&hm=70c182af6f31ca8684bc1d431940a78ee16ef84571815327f988ce0a5e1d2a2f&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=170&height=124

[royal shuttle]

Just because the tool requires a different knowledgeset for how to use it effectively, does not make it invalid as a tool.

[barren sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/peach-belly-cats-anime-gif-15650957655009214361

[humble parrot]

Shading, adding deepth with just color

[royal shuttle]

Taking a photo, not a coloring book

[kindred sleet]

Love handles

[humble parrot]

Taking a photo is even more complicated

[teal iron]

How come when I stop inserting my loud and angry opinions into obvious bait, everyone who told me "prima stop" is like "don't mind if I do"

[humble parrot]

What is framed, the lightning, reflections

[teal iron]

Is there some kind of sacred balance that I disrupted

[humble parrot]

You have less control over what happens on your canvas

[barren sierra]

It was easier for me to block the person than to argue

[fresh shard]

https://tenor.com/view/fail-kick-taekwando-gif-7623892

[teal iron]

This counts as doing it again doesn't it ...

[barren sierra]

I didn't really give a damn till i bought a few artists works and started comparing, Ai fucking sucks man even at a "high quality" mode

[royal shuttle]

Look into the history of photography, please. You'll see that early on, the existing painting market which was focused on realism rallied against the emerging tool. "You just point and push a button and now you captured that landscape, where's the art in that?"

[humble parrot]

It's weird to assume what a photographer does is easy because they press a button, while ignoring everything that goes into a photo, even the timing of it

[royal shuttle]

Exactly, but that was the elitist mentality at the time it was an emerging technology and good enough to be useable by the masses.

[humble parrot]

Have you seen the great photos in history?

All the composition? Those are real stuff.

They captured real things in that precise moment

Your AI just generated a picture based on text.

It's not comparable in the slightest

[brazen storm]

"Waaaahhh waaahhhh i have to type words and wait for hours for the pictures to show up" it takes artists years to actually make things with their hands and you equate that with some computer-generated composite of their work you didn't even make?

[royal shuttle]

And you act like artists using AI tools have no control over composition at all. Your assumption that it's all text is wrong as well, please look into image-to-image for how one can use his own immages or sketches to generate around the artist's desired poses or composition.

[brazen storm]

Crying "elitist" because people actually give a shit and work on their skills lmfao

[teal iron]

Anyway continuing my previous thought I wonder if AI has gotten any better at responding to the prompt "Primarinabee"
I'm too lazy to find out

[kindred sleet]

Ok time to go cause this topic will start to get heated again and someone will be put into time out soon

[royal shuttle]

I'm not the one getting heated here.

[humble parrot]

I don't care, you're just generating a picture, you acquired no skill, you didn't learn anything, and you're not comparable to the work an actual artist put to even learn to do what they do

[teal iron]

And further, I wonder if the original Dall-E would've handled "Primarina" correctly

[brazen storm]

Appeal to emotion while simultaneously trying to take emotion away from art is fucking comical lmao

What's your argument against "learn to draw"

[teal iron]

As someone who is obsessive about taking good pictures (screenshots, but I think a lot of stuff carries over) I can assure you that there is A LOT of nuance, assuming that my pitiful knowledge is indeed pitiful

[royal shuttle]

The fact that AI art can be used to convey an emotion that the artist desires in those who view it is proof enough that it meets the criteria for the baseline definition and purpose of artistic expression.

[humble parrot]

If the emotion is disgust, yes.

[royal shuttle]

Only because you only look for slop to confirm your bias against the tool you refuse to learn or engage with in any honest fashion.

[humble parrot]

Also, this isn't a fact, it's a made up sentence

[teal iron]

every time I post a palworld screenshot you guys need to understand that I spent like a good 2 minutes making sure the specific right things were in the frame, in the exact right poses, or at least as close as I could get
I almost died in a boss fight trying to get a perfect screenshot
Competitive Pokemon Snap player, really

[brazen storm]

I was willing to listen to your defense of AI but it all boils down to "I don't have to think about it and it takes my robot seconds to regurgitate what took you 17 years to master so ladeeda whos the artist now" like get a grip dude

[brazen storm]

A robot doesn't have feelings

[humble parrot]

It's isn't a tool. It's a generator

[barren sierra]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/610964378552107010/1328097384701366433/image.png?ex=67857693&is=67842513&hm=157faa8a78f26a6b3eef063e26625b11bf7619cf88554cf95dc7315847be75f8&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=369&height=280 No clue what you were getting but,..The internet thinks is a furry apparently

[brazen storm]

It may pretend it does

But it's all lines of code

[royal shuttle]

Neither does Photoshop, or a camera, or a canvas and paints. Your point being? The person behind the tool provides the feelings.

[teal iron]

-# i always make sure that my UI mods are in-frame, even though it would normally be something I would avoid entirely

[rancid oxide]

are you arguing about ai images

[lofty wind]

yes

[teal iron]

I mean...it's not WRONG
A little confused, but not wrong

[rancid oxide]

guys its all fake anyway

[barren sierra]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/610964378552107010/1328097807634137231/image.png?ex=678576f8&is=67842578&hm=2c6a47f87009ee76cb0546ac648dec2e655337bb15c4eb7de8dc3a4b17cf4f16&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=732&height=400 and this is what I get when I switch art style to "digital painting" using same prompt "Primarinabee"

[teal iron]

i need to stress that the last time I did this experiment was when Dall-E was a new, cool, trendy program that only a select few nerds had access to and they had to like get on a waiting list or something

[barren sierra]

Not sure why Ai is removing your pants but it is what it is

[teal iron]

Well maybe that's because I don't wear pants

[rancid oxide]

wild

how yall doin this afternoon

[teal iron]

anyway I have palworld mods to work on

[barren sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/rock-one-eyebrow-raised-rock-staring-the-rock-gif-22113367

[humble parrot]

Skirt moment

[teal iron]

you. you get it.

[rancid oxide]

cloak and robes moment

[royal shuttle]

What model are you using, what are you settings, is your prompt just that one word without any art direction prompts, what's the noise strength or canvas size, are you using a control image for style, composition? I could ask alot more questions, as there's a number of ways a user can change or alter the appearance of an image, not to mention things like in-painting, masks or manual touch-ups.

[brazen storm]

You're not making it though. It's the robot making things for you. Photography is more than just taking pictures of something. Someone poses, puts things on top of each other, wears different kinds of clothes, waits for the perfect moment to snap a picture. Again, you're blowing off a practice that's actually more complicated than it looks

[barren sierra]

Did you try a cup of "shut the fuck up" with a dash of "eat a dick" inside

[royal shuttle]

You seem to be misunderstaning the argument I was trying to make there. My parents were both professional photographers, I know what goes into it and how it's art, I wasn't denying that. I was telling you how the established means of creating art and that art community back then were biased against photography as an artform when it first came about.

[barren sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/bye-dismissed-christucker-shoo-away-gif-4884817

[royal shuttle]

I was making a comparison to the same mindset of "that's not real art, that's too easy" from people who haven't actually taken the time to learn what goes into it and how to make somthing that looks good and expresses the vision you are aiming to capture.

Simultaneously claiming "real art" takes great effort and downplaying the effort the new tool entering the market takes to get a good result. I never said people can't be lazy with the new tool, what I said was that doesn't discredit the effort that people who are genuinely trying to make art put into the tool and the human decisions that are made at each step along the way, including manually made edits in conjunction with other software.

[humble parrot]

AI isn't a tool.

It's a generator.

[royal shuttle]

"Cameras don't paint landscapes or capture human life in a still image like paintings do, you just push a button, it's a generator." -essentially the negative bias against cameras in the art community in the past, ignoring what all goes into taking a good picture.

[rancid oxide]

guys, its all fake anyway, ai only uses previous training data to make fake stuff
photos and paintings require more effort and therefore can have more value (monetarily and otherwise) but its all a representation of something

[humble parrot]

The camera didn't generate the moment captured.

It captured it. Which is entirely different.

[rancid oxide]

neither did ai

[royal shuttle]

Now realize it's also happened again when "digital art isn't real art" was a thing against photoshop, and what's going on right now against AI.

[humble parrot]

I don't care what some dead person said 100 years ago

[humble parrot]

This isn't the same either.

[royal shuttle]

It's the same elitism, and the point I was making is that people get over it in time and accept the new tool.

[humble parrot]

Digital art is not generating a picture.

[royal shuttle]

Do you care to talk in good faith? It appears as though you don't.

[humble parrot]

You don't either

[kindred sleet]

Sips ☕

[royal shuttle]

The elitism is from "art takes more effort than that" while ignoring what it takes to use the new tool.

[brazen storm]

If you're not going to add anything to the conversation, maybe don't speak at all.

[humble parrot]

So you're saying that writting an AI prompt is the same effort as years of learning how to do something on paper

You ignore the entire process it took the artist to get where it is

[kindred sleet]

Sips ☕
This wasn't saying anything I am sipping
Watching the convo fly past to a convo that will never done
I will leave soon don't worry your head

[humble parrot]

You brush it off and call it elitism, then say that your generator is the same valid """""skill"""""

[barren sierra]

Bare completely moment

[grand falcon]

Facts

[humble parrot]

Yet, you don't bother to try to learn what it involves, and make assumptions that boosts your points.

[royal shuttle]

Using AI tools effectively is not just "writing a prompt", you need to have some understanding of fundamentals such as composition, color theory, in-painting, masking and manual corrections in order to make art. Even if it were as simple as that, prompting in whatever way the model you use or train would take in order to get a good starting image before manual corrections can feel like speaking another language at times because the software doesn't talk like you or I do.

[humble parrot]

I don't consider myself an artist, but damn, all the effort and hours it took me to learn how to even draw something remotely resembling a pal isn't comparable to your couple of hours writting a prompt

[brazen storm]

God, you people are annoying. Enjoy your fencesitting, your slop and your self-jorking. I'm gonna go finish cleaning my room.

Also, you're a real one Azrelus

[humble parrot]

And man, I learnt how to color and shade pictures while doing it

I figured it out, doing it, for the first time.

And even if my computer is off, I can do it on paper.

[grand falcon]

The people who hate on "AI art" I can guarantee, that they don't even know how it works

I got in a discussion/argument about AI art with someone before in this server, and I challenged them to go make an ACTUALLY good AI art, and they couldn't do it

[full mountain]

[royal shuttle]

The classic, "If you think it's so easy, then you do it", only to see it wasn't as the other person dismissed.

[humble parrot]

Yup, ignore everything I just say and go along with the local troll.

Well, I had enough, I'm going to my game.

[royal shuttle]

I've been replying to your messages for how long now?

[humble parrot]

Have a fun day typing

[full mountain]

you ever thought about arguing less on discord and instead working on your skill issue?

[full mountain]

good call, enjoy ur game, Az!

[teal iron]

I wish I was diong the fun kind of modding

[royal shuttle]

Are you saying that those with physical limitations shouldn't be able to make art?

[barren sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/haha-funny-tea-cat-good-morning-gif-15057451

[full mountain]

what kinda physical limitations are we talking about

[teal iron]

but i'm just banging my head against my keyboard to recreate what unpr3diT%#$ctable m@ -_; chine err0r>>> has destroyed

[humble parrot]

Man, using people with disabilities to push AI slop is probably the lowest of low I've seen

[grand falcon]

What's also funny is that people try to make the argument "it's taking jobs away from artists"

If someone is using AI to make art, chances are they were never gonna pay someone to make said art

On top of that

What about physically disabled people? They should be forced to pay someone else, because they are physically unable to do it?

Like for example, Steven Hawkins, if bro wanted art, should he be forced to pay an artist, or can he use AI to make his own art?

[barren sierra]

I could show you the post cards armless people here in my town draw for charity, they use feet and mouths

[teal iron]

stupid unreal engine
"Uhhh I can't package this content because uhhhhh ummmmm skill issue!!!!"

[barren sierra]

And they still look better than any ai slop i've seen

[grand falcon]

Ah yes, I forgot, the only physical disability, is no arms

People like Steven Hawkins 100% don't exist

[teal iron]

so now I have to copy content but because I move the files slightly to the left the engine is like "whar??? references???"

And also I have to watch out for how palworld does pal blink animations by grabbing material INDEX not ID

[barren sierra]

Blink issue

[teal iron]

so if I have the materials ordered wrong then the character will blink using their entire body

[full mountain]

i bet you AI wouldn't have this issue

[barren sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/spill-issue-oh-no-my-milj-orange-cat-orange-cat-milk-milk-cat-gif-11913986030845101804

[teal iron]

if you try to drag me into the AI discussion again i'll drag you into the endless abyss of the infinite void for all eternity

[barren sierra]

Carby is already in a void

Gotta pay up for the new house

I doubt it can get worse

[grand falcon]

Another argument I love seeing people try to make it

"AI art is theft", like huh?? If AI art is theft, then so is every other single piece of art

"AI art" uses previously created art, to learn and make its own

Which is exactly what every other artist does, so by their logic, every single artist is a thief

[full mountain]

soz

[royal shuttle]

Way to dismiss people with disabilities who use AI tools who make the same point and how they felt better about themselves now being able to express themselves when they couldn't have done so before.

[teal iron]

sorry, but I've decided that these cyclical arguments are cringe

[barren sierra]

I've decided to finish my cup of dry prune tea

[teal iron]

unless someone is going to pay me to say "HAHAHA AI SLOPPPP" every time, I'm not gonna bother