s2-lore-discussions

[ornate venture]

dicapriodrogo has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[open field]

In the Trailer for that new DLC you could see mercenaries, right? Would that mean maybe another faction is involved in the whole business?

[normal drum]

Mercenaries are not a united faction, they are a couple of separate groups who can work for other factions (for example, Strelok actively used mercenaries for his goals - they were operating in such places like the Wild Island, the Mirror facility, Ahroprom Underground, the Red Forest, Cordon).
Existence of a "third side" of the conflict between Freedom and Duty in the form of mercenaries is highly unlikely. We already know that one of the important DLC characters, a mercenary called Nord, works for Chekhov from Freedom. Also, mercenaries led by Bogey work for Myklukha, they protect the Rostok factory.

[open field]

Yeah, I know how Mercs work, I just wondered who's paying them. Freedom I guess could work but imo it'd be more interesting to involve a different faction like the Scientists or maybe a cut one from the older games (like UNISG from the Clear Sky cut content)

[hexed flame]

OH NO

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE

Thy hath spoketh the prohibited word

[normal drum]

Some mercenaries work for the Malachite scientists but not on a big scale (scientists usually work with regular stalkers for their researches), so they're not really an option. The Ward and Mercs are practically enemies (and the latter are not needed for SIRCAA/the Regulatory Board, as they already have Wardens on the payroll). Therefore Freedom or some unknown, mysterious employers are the only options for mercs to have a big deal.

[open field]

Yeah, you're right. That's why I think a "new" faction like UNISG could make sense, after the destruction of SIRCAA someone like the UN certainly would have interest in the Zone since their main "competitor" has lost their main base of operations
And Ward also lost a lot of troops there and in the Duga (depending on when the DLC takes places but I assume after SIRCAA's destruction)

[normal drum]

The Malachite STC was created under the UNA (Stalker version of UN) so they've already had their part in the Zone. And what is this UNISG people are talking about? A non-canon group of a few scientists who died miserably in 2011? It's not even a proper faction.

[celest wagon]

I like how by the end of the game and in the Skif ending Skif becomes what Strelok thought himself to be. Someone reborn and given purpose in the Zone.

[radiant harness]

UNISG is a ghost recon army operating secretly within the zone
it was made up by Anomaly, which is why it's popular

[vital pollen]

(like UNISG from the Clear Sky cut content)
it's just UN

[hexed flame]

Here we go

[open field]

Didn't Build 3210 of CS have assets that resemble the UN stalkers?

[radiant harness]

UN, not UNISG, the UN is not the UNISG

[open field]

Yeah I suppose
Just thought so because 1. that's the name others that describe the faction use (also the fandom wiki just calls it ISG) and 2. the title "International Scientific Group" is written on one of the breast pockets of an unused model (I think)

[normal drum]

#❔┃сюжет message The list of all lore inconsistencies in the almanac and the collection cards' data (in Ukrainian, use a translator) (additional points: #❔┃сюжет message).

[muted needle]

My favorite part of the almanac is where it contradicts itself.
-# ⓘ Signed • 𝓜𝓸𝓷𝓼𝓽𝓮𝓻 𝓘𝓷 𝓐 𝓓𝓻𝓪𝔀𝓮𝓻 👑⁨

[minor anchor]

Imagine if the Ward Ending actually showed Skif taking Korshunov's position as Colonel of the Ward

[normal drum]

That would've been cool, but would've also undermined a point that people can still make their own decisions in Agatha's new world.

[sterile ingot]

Did dr kaymanov help monolithians because he was faust? Also is he faust in every ending because I sincerely hope that is not the canon ending

[hexed flame]

No kaymanov is not actually faust

.

[normal drum]

Doctor helps everyone regardless of who or what they are (stalkers, mutants, Monolithians etc).

[little gazelle]

i feel like seeing the Doctor drop the coat and it's Faust was like, neat at the time but like, i just can't make it make sense. like i genuinely don't get what they were going for if the doctor isn't Faust.

[hexed flame]

Read what oleksandr wrote

Its mostly about free will and beliefs

[little gazelle]

who

i'm really not seeing it make any sense even with what you said lol.

i think i found it but didn't know the letters. anyway, yeah no that sounds like a stretch lol.

guy literally says that Faust rethinks his idea of imposing happiness on people, after his death lol. that just isn't doing it for me lmao.

[normal drum]

It's obvious that they are both dead and in the Subtle World. Faust is not blind only in the Subtle World.

[normal drum]

He literally talks with Skif about how he was wrong to take freedom from people in the Subtle World, the world of the dead (or more specifically, dead in the physical world).

[little gazelle]

Where lol

Is that a Spark cutscene because I sure don’t remember that in either my Skif ending or the complete Ward run i did

[normal drum]

No, he says the same thing in both paths. He calls Skif the Envoy of the Monolith because, according to his religious interpretation, he angered the Monolith and that's why Skif (who was near the Wish Granter) came to kill him. According to Faust, he angered the Monolith because he played God, he wanted to give happiness to everyone (via Duga). He points out that no stalker in the Zone has ever become truly happy despite the reason to come there and claims that he's the only one who sees things clearly. But he didn't realise that the Monolith brings joy only to the chosen ones, those who willingly come to the Monolith. He understands now that his plan was wrong, that people need to choose for themselves if they want such happiness, like he himself did. In the final cutscene of Skif's ending he changes his priorities completely, putting freedom and life above happiness. (I've probably forgotten to add something, maybe @robust laurel could tell you more)

[little gazelle]

he literally says that we would have to tell him what he's done wrong. he doesn't know, i do not see this as him saying Skif came on behalf of the Monolith/Wishgranter.

people don't even come to the monolith willingly and he knows this as well

not to mention he literally kills skif if we reach for his hand

so clearly he doesn't feel that he's done things wrong if he will kill skif

Strider iirc tells him that the happiness he wanted back in the lives of Noontide was brought by bringing suffering to others.

the man does not feel guilty in my eyes. i think he just doesn't understand why his plan isn't working out and that he might try to think up a reason as for why it does, and in this case that seems to be that skif "was sent after him by the Monolith"

and iirc when we talk with Strider in the supposed Subtle Matter world or whatever, it's literally in a machine that we plugged a cartridge into that we took from a machine that literally made us see things that wasn't real.

i''m not even sure i feel like Subtle Matter is real. because it just sounds like it's always linked to machines that do shit with Psi energy

[normal drum]

1. "You stood by His side, carrying out His will, and now you’ve come for me. I have angered Him, and that is why you are here – seeking revenge and the reward." - He literally tells Skif that he's carrying the Monolith's will and tells him the reason why that happened.

2. I've already told you that before Duga he didn't care if someone becomes a Monolithian by their own choice or not (that's the literal reason why he's done what he's done), but now he believes that people need to have a choice like he himself had. "The Monolith brought joy to a chosen few. But I've decided that all stalkers in the Zone deserve better…" He literally thought of himself as God (you can clearly see it from his phrases before and during his boss battle) and that his choices were equal to the choices of the Monolith but he was mistaken.

3. Him giving a hand to Skif was a test, whether Skif has the will to live or not. He needs to choose it for himself or Faust does the choice for him (because Skif gives him the right to choose by taking his hand). If he truly had wanted to kill Skif, in the world he literally can control by himself, he would have done that immediately.

[normal drum]

The lesson of this test is that we don't have to give up our choices to someone else.

[little gazelle]

1. that makes no real sense. the Monolith isn't real and he knows it isn't, it also literally shows Skif something that isn't real while also showing him the "memories" of Strelok even though those aren't cannon either.

[normal drum]

"The Monolith is not real" gives the same energy as "The God is not real. How do you like that, Christians?" Faust believes in it, it doesn't matter whether the Monolith programm or the Wish Granter are just machines or not.

[little gazelle]

3. as a test it sounds stupid lol. that makes no sense to me. like you can want to live and still accept the help of someone else. Skif didn't even really want to kill the guy but he had to.

Faust literally uses his mind powers to take Skif up on top of the Duga.

[normal drum]

"Skif didn't want to kill the guy" after he robbed him, took his chance of leaving the Zone with a new home and caused harm to his friends?

[little gazelle]

we're not even the ones actually putting the guy down. we literally just come to, to Faust's body on the ground.

we didn't push him or anything.

[normal drum]

What? He literally takes you to the Subtle World, not just on the top of the Duga. It's not the physical world and Faust shows it.

[little gazelle]

Faust is literally a human with the powers of a Controller.

he can make you see anything that he wants you do and he does.

[normal drum]

He cannot do this with Skif specifically because he wears the Suppressor. The only option he had is to take Skif from his physical shell.

[little gazelle]

when we go to X-3 the notes literally talk about how important it was that Faust was able to think for himself to enhance his powers.

he doesn't take Skif to the Subtle World as much as he literally makes Skif trip balls hard.

[little gazelle]

that sounds like such a stretch

like where the hell would Faust have gotten the power to literally take someone to another world even if it's one that exists on top of the real one.

[hexed flame]

Brother there is a whole quest specifically to get protection from faust's powers xd

And you call that a stretch

[little gazelle]

that item doesn't even work if you paid attention

[normal drum]

All controllers have this ability. That's how they zombify people in mere moments, or can reanimate bodies. They can manipulate the Noosphere-person connection.

[little gazelle]

it's supposed to make Skif stop seeing doubles but it doesn't because we still see doubles before the fight when we see a monolith soldier lugging around a Psi emitter and also Faust literally makes Skif see doubles

[hexed flame]

If it didnt you would get insta killed on that roof with 500 faust copies

Also these doubles are real people overlayed with faust's looks from what I can tell since afaik they dont disapear

Not just psi phantoms or whatever

[little gazelle]

the fact that Faust doesn't make sure to even kill Skif in the first assualt is really weird

[little gazelle]

that sounds like mega speculation to me lol.

[hexed flame]

Not for the lack of trying but skif is a slippery weasel

[normal drum]

Yeah, because Faust was prepared and had almost a dozen of additional emitters, yeah, it "doesn't even work".

[little gazelle]

Controllers use Psi energy to fry the brains of people.

[hexed flame]

From what I remember there is proof zombies retain some connection with the noosphere

[little gazelle]

i just feel like "Faust uses his powers to take Skif into the Subtle World" sounds so made up.

it's still his powers he is using but it's nothing as grand as that.

[hexed flame]

How can you go through the whole game and think faust doesnt actually believe in the monolith

[little gazelle]

he was given the Monolith as an idea.

[normal drum]

Again, explain why Faust is not blind in this particular place only. And it's a fact that he's really blind in the physical world (he sees the world in a different way, in psi-waves).

[little gazelle]

that is why they had him lead the Monolith.

[hexed flame]

That literally means the same thing

He believes its a real god

[normal drum]

Religion is just an idea, too

[little gazelle]

his powers work in a way that lets him see in another way.

because he wasn't always blind

[hexed flame]

There is 0 proof of psi powers granting this kind of ability (without involving the subtle world)

[little gazelle]

Faust was a stalker in the zone before he got captured if you want us to take his word as the truth.

[hexed flame]

Also in his actual illusions in the swamps he is blind

[little gazelle]

he wasn't blind then but seemingly became it due to the experiments they did to him.

[hexed flame]

Ok and ?

[hexed flame]

And ?

Like ok so whats more far fetched

[normal drum]

He wants to say that everyone is lying and the world is just Doctor's pseudodog's dream.

[little gazelle]

i just don't believe that he can just access "the subtle world" or just draw others consciousness there.

[hexed flame]

He can see through the subtle world and in his dying moments as he realises being wrong he takes skif and shows him how he sees the world and then reapears in the subtle world at the end of the game both times with working eyes
Or
He actually magically uses psi waves to see and he only appears with eyes once because ??? And he somehow survives even tho you looted his literal body and actually he never believed in the monolith but did all this crazy shit just because

[normal drum]

But Skif did it just like that even without Faust when he used the pod under Orbita. It's literally told in the 1996 documents that it is used to access the Noosphere, to see through it.

It's practically the same

[hexed flame]

I love how the devs make up this grandiose cutscene with a cool speech and impossible physics just to nail it in that he CAN and a player will still say this

[little gazelle]

see the thing is that there's no explanation for the post credits thing where you see the Doctor drop the Coat and turning into Faust.

if they're not the same guy.

[hexed flame]

There literally is

What do you think is more likely
The devs gave faust eyes to indicate when he is shown in the subtle world
He magically regained sight after turning into kaymanov because ???

[little gazelle]

in Orbita we literally use a cartridge that we for a fact know, we yoinked out of a machine in X-3 that literall made Skif see pretty flowers and hear birbs chirping. and so did it make others who found it see.

[normal drum]

because... because... trust no one, everything's a lie, Skif was manipulated by everyone

[little gazelle]

so like, i am casually not sure about if what we see in Orbita is remotely real or just a Psi induced vision.

[hexed flame]

Nah the whole spark questline and project y are a ruse trust

[little gazelle]

we literally take a thing from something that makes us see things that isn't there. and plug it into another thing to make us see, something that Scar and his men who is there, also can't see.

[normal drum]

Explain me, how a cartridge that had lied there for 20 years according to Doctor could contain Strider's illusion? Explain me, how did Scar have a cartridge with Topol's illusion to show it to Ozersky if Scar never even met him, Topol died in 2012?

[hexed flame]

Not parts all of it

[hexed flame]

He was the first to die

[robust laurel]

What do you think psi is?

[little gazelle]

i feel like Scar just had another cartridge that showed what he needed Ozersky to believe.

[hexed flame]

So the cartridge is intelligent ?

And it knew exactly what to show ozersky and skif ?

[little gazelle]

how do you even get to that lmao

[hexed flame]

How else would such an old item contain strider's personality?

[normal drum]

"showed what he needed Ozersky to believe" how Strider's and Topol's illusions could talk to Skif and Ozersky perfectly?

[little gazelle]

Scar is literally implanted with the memories of one of the OG spark members while being a C-Con agent. Scar is most likely able to get his hands on things if he needs them, one way or another. getting a Cartridge with what could be the memories of someone who died, to convince Ozersky doesn't really feel like such a stretch.

[normal drum]

Where did he get these memories?

[hexed flame]

This would only explain topol even if it was true

[little gazelle]

those visiographs most likely just have audio? which is why the tape we finds picks up on Topol talking

[normal drum]

And I'll remind you that the Oasis in X3 is not a personal illusion but a projection.

[little gazelle]

since Scar is talking to Ozersky as if they're both just there but when Skif uses the pod he can't hear anything not inside the vision he sees iirc.

[normal drum]

What did you mean by that?

[normal drum]

What did make you think that the audio from the session cannot be recorded by the machine and produced in the physical world for a simple recorder to catch it? There is no evidence Ozersky has heard what Scar said. And the Visiograph is a different technology, the capsule is not it.

[little gazelle]

how is Scar supposed to have been able to show Topol's voice off to Ozersky in Orbita if that even is where that recording was made.

when Scar and Ozersky talk. Scar turns on something that at the time seems to be sentient because it is able to interract with what Ozersky is asking it. so it's not simply a recording he shows Ozersky.

[normal drum]

What? Because Scar isn't even involved in this process? Or you think that Scar imitates or somehow got real Topol's voice or something?

[normal drum]

Because it is not just a recording

[little gazelle]

and it's not likely he used the pod that we use, to show Ozersky either because they're still communicating. i feel like he must have used something like the Visiograph that we find under STC or one that could be like the the that we see when we find Faust in the basement of the Clear Sky base

[normal drum]

The Visiograph was not built at the time (proof: Spark members literally ask Skif to find the instruction on how to built it in X18). Again, it's not the same tech. You literally find the recording near the capsule, not near the Visiograph.

[little gazelle]

i used that Recording to make Spirit give me the information about the Spark Bunker and his repurposed Scanner.

[normal drum]

Listen to the recording again. Scar talks to Ozersky BEFORE the session and AFTER it only.

[little gazelle]

the recording is found behind a keypad locked door on the way out of there.

on a shelf.

[normal drum]

And? That's one room away from the capsule. The Visiograph stands in X17 under the Malachite STC.

[little gazelle]

i guess imma hobble over to the prip hub and then go through the notes for the recording.

[hexed flame]

I genuinely dont get why you are accusing what the literal game says of being far fetched just to invent this crazy scheme

[normal drum]

• Claims something
• Doesn't even check if they're right

[hexed flame]

Scar somehow used a visiograph or an unknown device to raise strider and topol from the dead or mimicked their voice using tech that was never ever hinted to exist just so he could manipulate ozersky and skif (or fail with skif)

And he could do so because he is a ccon agent and that somehow makes sense

And then he asked skif to retrieve schematics for the visiograph so he could cover that up?

Or just because

[normal drum]

"- Why do you scientists always have to make things so complicated? Faith is about believing in spite of something, Mr. Ozersky, not because of it. Otherwise, what’s the point?
- I need to know for sure.
- All right. If you prefer knowing to believing, see for yourself.
- Ha! I didn't expect to see a familiar face here. How's it going?
- Topol? Is that really you?
- Who else?
- I want to make sure. Tell me this: during our time in the bunker, someone saved you and your crew from a Controller. Who was it?
- I’d never forget something like that. It was Degtyarev.
- You really are still alive! Unbelievable…
- As you can see, Professor, faith is always rewarded. Are you ready to take action?"

[little gazelle]

Scar literally makes fun of Skif for having claimed that he spoke to Strider.

[hexed flame]

which would make your theory even more nonsensical

[normal drum]

He literally says afterwards: "Turns out there's life in the Noosphere. Can you believe it?"

And then rants about how it would be better for everyone if they all achieved the immortal life within the Noosphere

[robust laurel]

Do you know what ‘irony’ is?

[little gazelle]

my "theory" is that i just don't think it makes sense that the doctor turns into Faust in the post credits scene. lol.

[normal drum]

Scar's literally the biggest believer in the idea that people do not actually die completely.

[normal drum]

And we've literally proved it to you half an hour ago. But you've still continued by jumping to another topic.

[robust laurel]

No, actually Scar is a C-Con agent trying to take over the world because they’re ||EVIL||

And Faust really did turn into the Doctor because he’s ||EVIL||

[normal drum]

Which you failed, too.

||TRUST NO ONE||

[little gazelle]

i would've been more likely to believe it's the subtle world if they'd done a jump cut between the two. not have the doctor drop his coat just for it to have been Faust.

[robust laurel]

All villains are evil simply because they’re evil, not because each of them has their own worldview and motivation for their actions

[robust laurel]

Do you know what a ‘metaphor’ is?

[little gazelle]

is Scar not just an agent for the C-Con who had him programmed to do something but they made him think it was because it made sense to him and his beliefs

[little gazelle]

i don't buy into those for this type of thing lol. we see the doctor because we didn't shoot him. i don't think a metaphor is gonna explain why the doctor turns into Faust. if they wanted to show that the Subtle World was real, there was no need whatsoever to show the Doctor there, just have it be Faust.

[normal drum]

Doctor died from an Emission. They're both dead, that's why they're both in the Subtle World.

[little gazelle]

and why would he decide to die on purpose in an Emission

even if he did go and end himself like that, it makes no sense to have his coat drop turn him into Faust if they're different people lol

[robust laurel]

There are literally several reasons why this was done.

1. To show the conflict of ideas and the reconciliation with Faust. They had an off-screen conflict, and that’s a fact confirmed by the notes and dialogues. The Doctor himself also said that in the new world everyone would be able to understand each other.

2. Faust also appears there to explain that Judgment Day has happened and to explain the meaning of the will to live.

[little gazelle]

an offscreen conflict caused the doctor to end himself?

[robust laurel]

No one dies in a world where the Noosphere exists. He fulfilled his role.

[little gazelle]

isn't the Noosphere supposed to covering the world?

[robust laurel]

Yes, but the Zone is a Noosphere that directly interacts with the world. Even though the Noosphere encompasses the world, it does not interact directly.

[little gazelle]

what was it the use of the Generators was again btw?

since i am doing a spark run this time, the note at the Journalist's body is from Scar this time.

[normal drum]

Because he has passed his ideals to Skif. It was the endspiel, and Doctor knew he's too old to achieve his goals by himself. If Skif fails, there's no point in living in the world that will die out because people won't ever learn from their mistakes and humanity will go extinct (in Doctor's perspective). If Skif doesn't fail, humanity gets the access to the Noosphere, and, as Doctor believes in the Subtle Matter regardless of what Skif says to him after the TCS (if you'll speak to him before going to Prypiat), he'll be able to communicate with the physical world anyway.

[robust laurel]

The generators created a hole in the Noosphere and were needed to extract the anomalous energy contained within it. However, @normal drum understands this topic better.

[normal drum]

I have no time nor energy to go on.

Nor patience

[little gazelle]

Scar's letter seems to indicate there is Generators built outside the zone.

[normal drum]

There are much more proofs but yes there are Generators in many places around the world but they couldn't be used unless the Chornobyl Zone is fixed.

Doctor uses these Generators to create new Zones.

[normal drum]

The initial point of the Generators was to provide the world with controlled anomalous energy, by extracting it from the Noosphere by piercing the ionosphere-Noosphere barrier. Because of the C-Con's experiment to enter the Noosphere and change it from within in 2006, the Breakdown happened which was too much for the Generators to handle and that cause the Zone to appear.

Since then, smaller breakdowns appear regularly, the Generators are forced to collect the anomalous energy and then blow it out, causing an Emission.

[bleak trellis]

its like watching monkeys in a zoo

[robust laurel]

Wow, these monkeys are discussing the game lore in the appropriate channel for that. Incredible

[bleak trellis]

and erm no its just to contain it and manage it so it the energy doesnt flow out uncontrollably. theres no talk of their original purpose planning to give anomalous energy to the world

[bleak trellis]

that was supposed to reply to this

average internet moment

[bleak trellis]

well its not that but usually what happens here are fights or straight wrong stuff or unconfirmed things being confirmed by people who literally arent gsc

[robust laurel]

Um, what else do you think this chat is for? People discuss lore and have conversations here. That’s literally the name of the channel, lol

Wow, people have unverified information and are discussing lore because they aren’t the game developers. That’s so wrong

[bleak trellis]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1456489231143928015/1502691953655943310/IMG_0077.gif

it is bro

no but seriously the amount of fights that ive heard happen here and half of everyone genuinely muting this channel says something

[normal drum]

It's not logical. Do you think the Generators were built after the Zone appeared (which is not true as we know they were built in 2003 and tested in April 2006)? If there were no Generators from the very start, it would've ended up in a global catastrophe.
And finding the source of the anomalous energy was the goal of the Project X since the start (according to Strelok and Agatha), the Supervisory Board was going to provide it to the world as it would boost the technological progress to unimaginable levels (after they would secure the monopoly over it, of course, as any corporation wants to). The Generators was the peak creation of the Project X for extraction and usage of the anomalous energy. Other than creating Emissions, the Generators can actually be used to create controlled anomalies, for example, the Navigators (teleporters you use in the end of the game).

[radiant harness]

most #s2-lore-discussions posters stop just before their discussion partner agrees with them

[robust laurel]

Dude, you came into a chat where people discuss lore and share their thoughts on it just to call them monkeys. Is that a reasonable action from the moderation team?

[bleak trellis]

i mean i guess but they were built before rhe zone manage it so the zone doesnt continue leaking out energy constantly, i dont think that was the original plan the give it to the world i think that was just after thought, also.. which ones are we talking about the ORIGINALLL ones or the ones chilling next too the original ones cause im assuming the other one was built after

wait a darn minute

lock in

im assuming the mdst made the ones chilling northern of the cnpp

did the mdst guys build the ones next to it

[normal drum]

We will probably learn more about the ones on the CNPP in the DLC. But it's sure that no constructions could begin in the epicentre of the Zone after 2006.

[bleak trellis]

true

or erm

i just feel like the old ones are gunna be forgotten

left to die

also i kinda assumed that operation zenith (sircaa operation to disable the generators) was to hopefully take them over again due to dalins note thing saying “Turning off the Generators was a critical element in achieving our goal”

so erm

thats why i say it was probably a later thing

its a real slippery subject

[normal drum]

They would've probably needed to turn them off to safely transport scientists there, without a risk of a random Emission, they could then use the Generators to "heal" the Zone (like what happens in the Ward ending). They didn't know about the Foundation yet and didn't have an access to the teleporters so I can imagine turning the Generators off was important.

[bleak trellis]

mhm but the operation failed as we know

and then the factions hated sircaa even more

and the ward

[normal drum]

Yes, because a random Emission occured before they reached the Generators

They didn't know that there are local, frequent Emissions exlusively in the Dead Valley.

[bleak trellis]

i feel like instead of sending like 40 different vehicles and a bunch of forces there

they shoulda just sent a couple researchers there

then did the operation

also i kinda wish we had the original generator design

it sure is more secret that the ones we have in stalker 2

also heres a probe from oblivion lost (the actual oblivion lost)

looks like a generator eh eh eh

oh and also i dont like how the generators in the ccon room are filled with tv’s i genuinely think thats actually stupid like why whats the point of that, the original cut one had a better design

[celest wagon]

Is it possible for someone to leave the C-Consciousness pods alive? Can you separate their connection and still have them come out alive as they were or if you take them out do they just become like Noontide or die?

[weary bough]

I also am wondering this considering their physical body is submerged in water/some kind of liquid. Are they like frozen? Or can breathe in the water while connected?

[smoky hornet]

No. The Representative outright says the process is irreversible

[hexed flame]

Doesnt the...yeah what leaper said

[hexed flame]

Its likely some matrix style goo

[celest wagon]

I heard that their bodies are in stasis as their minds are projected from their bodies in the Noosphere. So if someone could bring their minds back to their bodies then yes. But I don't think that's possible

[celest wagon]

We sure he's to be trusted tho?

[smoky hornet]

No, their minds are melded into one being. There is no individuals left.

[weary bough]

God I love lore in this game

[smoky hornet]

This is one of the few times I believe he’s telling the truth

[weary bough]

funny enough I went down a rabbit hole and realized that the noopsphere idea was semi based off a true theory

[celest wagon]

Oh yeah. But then that mind is projected into the Noosphere

[celest wagon]

What reason does he have to? Also, in each of the endings someone important went into the pod. Regardless of the chosen one GSC may want to bring them back due to their importance so I don't believe the representative is telling the truth. I think he's lying to mislead.

[celest wagon]

Wait what?

[smoky hornet]

Oh I absolutely believe the Representative is full of shit

[celest wagon]

It is so cool bro. Like top 2

In terms of lore and my favorite franchises in general

[celest wagon]

Agreed. I just think it may be possible to separate the minds and bring them back into their bodies. Or in S2 case just the latter step.

[hexed flame]

Nah likely not

There is no coherent writing reason for the representative dialogue to be lies

Its just a piece of exposition

[normal drum]

I hate when someone says "they're lying", like why would they ever need that? They have a stable, well-written motivation and goals, how could someone come to a conclusion that they have some secret motivation we don't know about?

[weary bough]

Yeah check out Vladimir Vernadsky, alot of the idea was from him and his peers, I believe

He believed that the next step for evolution was basically c-concsiousness type stuff

[hexed flame]

I think he is talking about cosmism

[normal drum]

Yes, but to point out irl Noosphere was never meant to be a real, physical thing, just a way to explain the connections between things in the world while Stalker takes the idea to a whole new level

[weary bough]

Yeah, I just absolutely love the real world elements mixed in. Adds a layer that I enjoy

[celest wagon]

Honestly I just need to replay again before I can really say anything. Unironically at several major story points including the representative meeting and the end of the game I was nearly asleep so I don't remember too much. I need to stop playing S2 till so late at night.

[celest wagon]

I'll look into him tysm

[weary bough]

🙏 may the zone guide you

[normal drum]

"Regardless of Strelok’s intentions, any efforts to revive us would have been futile because the merging of our minds is irreversible." - they say it in X17

[smoky hornet]

Because underhanded methods is part of C-Cons MO

[bleak trellis]

the representative lies to protect the true secrets and allat of the ccon, the rep isnt just gunna spill out truth serum truth nukes to a random guy who luckily survived long enough to see him

like he sure does lie about quite a bit

[celest wagon]

I think Skif should be shown to be much better at handling, reloading, and otherwise using weapons like the AKs, AS Lavina, VS Vintar, RPM, etc. He should have served with them and I think it should show he's had experience with them.

[celest wagon]

Exactly

[bleak trellis]

he literally lies to strelok bro

[smoky hornet]

Skif was a Marine, not Special Forces. So the VSS and Val likely were never in his kit.

[celest wagon]

Tri or S2?

[bleak trellis]

the trilogy duh

[celest wagon]

Makes sense. But I think he should still show a high level of skill with the AK

We saw him expertly field strip it too

[bleak trellis]

he lies to persuade strelok to go in the pod

[bleak trellis]

dude a child could do that

[celest wagon]

Oh

[bleak trellis]

the ak is ment to be easily stripped

[smoky hornet]

I see the reason Skif is more careful with zone guns is because most of them are slapdash at best, he likely doesn’t know if the mags feed lips won’t just implode if he smacks it too hard

[celest wagon]

I mean yeah but the majority of people would have never used it before going into the Zone. So Skif knowing how to do it and doing it that fast is a feat

[celest wagon]

Makes a lot of sense. Tnx

[smoky hornet]

Like I’ve said before, the 416, G36, Carmel, Vector and Malyuk are really the onky truly good condition guns in the zone because they’re brand new

[celest wagon]

Combatant too

[robust laurel]

The thing is, everything they said ultimately aligns with what we see in the game's ending.
Being manipulative or having ulterior motives does not automatically equal lying about one’s motivation. You can speak openly about your motivation.

[celest wagon]

But that also doesn't necessarily mean they're telling the truth about the technical stuff

[bleak trellis]

skif has had training

[robust laurel]

What are you talking about specifically?

[celest wagon]

Exactly. Hence why I thought Skif should be better with the AK but Leaper gave a good explanation on why he's careful

[smoky hornet]

No like literally, iirc it’s something taught in school in Eastern Europe

[celest wagon]

Oh yeah I forgot. It is

[celest wagon]

Them saying once someone goes into the pod they can't come out alive

[smoky hornet]

I’ll also fully admit I am incredibly biased against C-Con

[celest wagon]

Why?

[bleak trellis]

the representative acts in its own self interest tho for the weird goals the scientists had, and it literally lied to strelok

[robust laurel]

They only talked about the merging of consciousnesses. They said that their minds had merged, and that was exactly why they could no longer be pulled out of there, because the merging was irreversible. There was never any mention of leaving the capsule. However, we don’t actually know for sure.

[smoky hornet]

I think their ‘Shining’ idea is the ultimate form of six people playing God

[celest wagon]

Why is it?

[normal drum]

The myth that C-Con are super evil comes from the "English lore" of SoC which is non-canon and shows C-Con as manipulators, while the Ukrainian/Russian C-Con is truthful and straightforward. They are idealists, not villains.

[celest wagon]

Ok then. Given in each of the endings it was a single person going in they can come out (assuming the representative is telling the truth)

[smoky hornet]

yes, the people who made the STALKER and monolith programs are straightforward

[bleak trellis]

im not saying super evill im just saying lying, even good people lie sometimes

[celest wagon]

Idealists who make brainwashed personal armies of unwilling soldiers who shoot at everyone even if they're not at the center of the Zone or near it?

[robust laurel]

Again, manipulative methods do not mean lying about one’s intentions.

[bleak trellis]

um bro you lie to manipulate

you do bad things to manipulate too

[robust laurel]

?

[bleak trellis]

lying is like a direct way to manipulate

its the way to manipulate

THEE way

[normal drum]

They needed them to protect themselves. From their perspective, they're the only one who can fix the situation. It's not a justification but an explanation of their actions.

[bleak trellis]

its the genuine easiest way to lie

to manipulate

golly

[normal drum]

Every lie is a manipulation, but not every manipulation is a lie.

[celest wagon]

Ok then. Does that explain why they needed to go all around the Zone shooting people and not just stick to the center of the Zone defending it?

[robust laurel]

Do you really not understand the difference between “a manipulative action” and “explaining your motivation”? Do you really not understand that someone can speak openly about their motivation while still manipulating others and playing unfairly to achieve the desired result? Does this really need to be explained? Sorry, but if it does, I don’t have time for that.

[bleak trellis]

they said shakespeare was dead

[normal drum]

They needed to set pressure so no one would try to work out a plan to bypass the Scorcher.

[celest wagon]

You can do both. And I think they did

They explained their motives but also lied to manipulate people and give them misconceptions about themselves

[robust laurel]

I’ll repeat myself: everything they told us matches what we saw in Scar’s ending.

[normal drum]

Stalkers wanted to go north because of their own legends that there's a Clondike of Artifacts in the Centre. C-Con didn't want that.

[bleak trellis]

i mean they kinda lowkey did both to the lock

strelok

i call him the lock

[robust laurel]

Then give an example of where their words about their motivation do not align with the outcome in Scar’s ending.

[normal drum]

#s2-lore-discussions message All differences between English C-Con and Ukrainian/russian C-Con in SoC

[bleak trellis]

mainly cause uh the representative said if strelok joined them they could stop the zone growing and allat but

but thats not true

it still will continue to expand

[normal drum]

That's what English C-Con says, the canon C-Con doesn't guarantee that it will help

[robust laurel]

Why is that not true? Not to mention that they hoped they would be able to stop it, rather than promising they would.

[bleak trellis]

we should slaughter english translators

[normal drum]

It's not an issue with translators but that the text that was given to them was not the final one.

[bleak trellis]

oh thats silly

[celest wagon]

Bro. You can do that easier by setting up an impenetrable perimeter no one can breach and shooting anyone who gets remotely close.

[robust laurel]

@bleak trellis It’s simply best to use the lore from Heart of Chornobyl rather than Shadow of Chornobyl.

[bleak trellis]

i genuinely wouldnt trust both

i heard there were alot of retcons and weird things in heart of Chornobyl based on the lore

[robust laurel]

If we’re talking about Stalker 2, then it makes sense to use its lore.

[normal drum]

There were no resources to cover all possible ways to the north which also constantly change because anomalous fields can migrate. It's easier just to kill everyone

[bleak trellis]

ough well then alrighty

[robust laurel]

There have been retcons, which is exactly why I’m saying that when discussing Stalker 2 it makes sense to use its lore. Because the trilogy, while still canon, is more like legends

[normal drum]

It's not like there were atrocious retcons other than the map but even it can be explained.

[bleak trellis]

i wonder if someone can build a better map

[celest wagon]

Not really no

Only map changes iirc. They were made to make the Zone more like it's irl counterpart

[celest wagon]

Yeah the devs just wanted to make it closer to irl

[celest wagon]

You can't kill everyone in the Zone

That's just impossible. Even for Monolith

[normal drum]

Yeah, I don't dislike the map, it's just raised some questions for those who don't dig deep.

[celest wagon]

Unfortunately the people upset it also aren't willing to be proved wrong

[celest wagon]

And C-Con should know that

[normal drum]

Well, probably, but they've definitely wanted to expand the stalker-free zone. It's also implied in the trilogy that not only Monolithians are told to breach the Barrier but also waves of mutants (that's why the Barrier existed even before Monolithians appeared there)

[celest wagon]

Barrier meaning breaking into the Mainland?

[bleak trellis]

the only thing i dont like is how pripyat has like 1 billion fences and a whole chunk of it was cut

[celest wagon]

Pretty pointless probably

Would just make Pripyat vaulting simulator

[normal drum]

No, the literal Barrier, north of the Military Warehouses

Before Freedomers began to hold it, there were the military stalkers which were abandoned by their command

[bleak trellis]

also i wonder why that psi wall in call of pripyat is like missing

[celest wagon]

Oh. Yeah tbh I haven't played the trilogy yet so Idk

[bleak trellis]

play it brodie

[robust laurel]

@celest wagon I can congratulate you. You have a more up-to-date understanding of the game’s lore

[hexed flame]

Imo they did a good job with it

Not only does it more closely reflect reality but it also makes more sense because it shows how isolated the generators and cnpp really are (irl cnpp is pretty hard to access from the north and it has a wholeass river to the east)

Im also glad they tried merging similar places like swamps+zaton it made no sense that they were literally on the opposite ends of the map when both are inspired by the same area north east

The barrier is really the only 'bad' retcon since the army warehouses are a strategically worthless place now and realistically the barrier would likely be somewhere in yaniv or rostok

Also zalissya is a very good location since it+cordon shows there is a long stretch of a perimeter thats poorly guarded in some places it always irked me how in the trilogy every stalker had to seemingly walk through the mil checkpoint

Also its a huge upgrade to worldbuilding, the fact that you get to see how stalkers get into the zone and you dont just materialise inside like degy

[little gazelle]

i feel like when you gotta find the entry points to the Foundation, it's weird that there is so many places you can find them in.

like there's like 3 places if not 4

this super secret location and there's like 4 places that has the info just within the city.

[bleak trellis]

the only thing i dont like is the removal of this

the weird wall of psi radiation

that was like really cool

[celest wagon]

Been meaning to but I have no money. Been looking for a j#b

[celest wagon]

Thanks. Or are you being sarcastic?

[robust laurel]

It’s a joke, but it’s a truthful one. Because you really don’t have those strong biases. A lot of people are so deeply immersed in the trilogy’s lore that it prevents them from looking at some things objectively.

[celest wagon]

Tnx. The only 2 things in STALKER I have a strong bias on is Duty being the best faction and Skif being the best protagonist. I am a Skif apologist and I will not apologize.

[robust laurel]

Unfortunately, the factions in S2 are barely explored. We’ll have to wait for the DLCs.

[celest wagon]

Yeah I can't wait to join Duty

[celest wagon]

Mainly since Ik someone who plays the trilogy like if they stop they'll die and we talk about STALKER occasionally. So I got to learn a lot from him. Plus I've watched a fair amount of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. lore videos.

[bleak trellis]

i hope you get it

[bleak trellis]

yeah wheres our spark lore im curious why they even exist, (erm cause if they are just under scar being delusional and working endlessly for a shining zone and its literally just that with nothing cool or any other notable battles that would be a total waste of a faction lowkey)

[hexed flame]

Ohh the scar

[normal drum]

There are 3 motives to become a Sparker (not only that they are "Scar's fanatics"):

• To study the Zone (initial goal since when Topol and his people formed the Spark faction in CoP). They frequently work for the Malachite scientists and usually don't play in guerrilla like other Sparkers do.
• To fight Ward. There are a lot of reasons to hate Wardens (not only when they've kicked out Spark from the Chemical Plant in 2013). Spark is the only faction that actually confronts and fights against Ward so a huge part of Sparkers are not led by an ideology, but sole feeling of hate and revenge.
• To find the Shining Zone. It's actually not a belief all Sparkers share, usually only those who met Scar and/or faced a serious traumatic experience do. People die everytime in the Zone, and many cannot live thinking that they died for nothing, that they are gone forever. That's where this protoreligion comes in.

[normal drum]

And about notable events, Spark was one of the opposing sides during the conflict in the ARG 2021

[celest wagon]

Yeah I want to get them all at once

[elder bobcat]

Boi, do I have the news for ye: https://mapgenie.io/stalker-2-heart-of-chornobyl/maps/the-zone?locationIds=414988

[normal drum]

He was talking about the psi-wall, not the Scar itself.

[elder bobcat]

So the visual effect, to be precise, because the anomaly itself is still the exact same "psi-wall" mechanically like it was in CoP – just way more subtle in its visual effects in accordance to the new team's vision of how psi-radiation should be perceived & felt (which, albeit being a bit less artistic, I'd say is closer to how it's usually described).

[bleak trellis]

id say thats like a temu version or something

it was rewlly cool seeing it for the first time in the sky, just a big gigantic wall that moves like waves when something is real real hot

aaughh but if thats gsc’s then its okay

gsc’s vision

ough om sleepy

[elder bobcat]

It's a version that complies with how psi-radiation is presented in this particular game in general: a very subtle influence that's slowly driving you mad. No flashy presentation that'd alert ye to the presence of a psi-field from a mile away like it's done in the trilogy – just an invisible trap that you'd only notice affecting yer psyche in some time, depending on the protection you have.

[bleak trellis]

truth, but augh i really wish it was still a wall of beautiful interestingness, actually i also dont know how the current version of ue we have would play with that

it seems like there would be some issues

what is bro typing

if its really really long im not gunna read allat im too sleepy

[elder bobcat]

I agree that trilogy's presentation is more elaborate & artistic, but I also don't mind this accumulative creeping sense of losing the connection with reality in places that generally don't even outline themselves as psi-hazardous. I remember discovering HoC's version of the Scar for the first time whilst travelling up the Cement Factory region after completing the WPS quest & just exploring things nearby: it doesn't really explicitly look like the CoP Scar, which was that massive blackened fault in the ground – just a humongous curiously looking rift, the likes of which you'd see in lots of other places on the new map (the chemical one near Yantar looks just like it, for example). Then the psi effects started kicking in, the scientist fell down from the edge & turned into zombie, allat jazz. Got away from there, opened the map to see what it says & sure enough – the Scar 😁 It is indeed just a difference in the design approach, but in the end the mechanics & the lasting impression are quite similar.

[little gazelle]

having now finished my Spark run. what really happened there at the end? i mean we're at the campfire telling the story of our time in the zone and it's all pretty. but then it flips around and shows what i assume is the real world. we're still at a campfire but we're alone. bodies littered around us, one or two of them are moving but but in ways that remind me of how the zombies do, like tilting around and making sudden jerks

[normal drum]

Starting from around here: #s2-lore-discussions message

[little gazelle]

is Skif basically a zombie at that point but his consciousness is in the shining zone? or does his body in the real world simply mimic his movement in the shining.

has anyone else in the zone also now become zombies after Scar went into the pod?

[normal drum]

Representative said that the Shining Zone will be firstly revealed to all stalkers in the Zone, and then — to all people in the world (not exact quote but that was the idea).

Found it
"The Shining will reinstate the right to immortality for all sentient beings in the Zone — and, eventually, for all of mankind."

[little gazelle]

Is there any reason as to why the blind dogs we see in the reveal, don’t attack either Skif or the zombie nearby?

[normal drum]

There is no in-game explanation. But it fits with my theory that mutants react to the psi-field of a person. If a person feels negative emotions towards them, they will respond likewise. That's why no mutant attacks Hermit, for example. Zombified people feel nothing towards the dogs so they ignore them, too.

[celest wagon]

I saw a bit of the cutscene before clicking off to avoid Spark spoilers but I assume it's the latter

[little gazelle]

Only hermit I remember hearing about is from notes i think and it seems he’s found dead in the generators map with a note on his body

[celest wagon]

I wonder what happens to Monolith in each of the endings. We only see their fate in the Strelok ending (I think)

[normal drum]

Yes, he accepted to leave this world because of the "Zone's call" (I don't actually believe that the Zone is conscious, but that's how he perceived things). There are 3 notes in total written by him (including the one in the Dead Valley) in HoC. He was also present in Clear Sky, in the Ahroprom Factory.

[robust laurel]

The problem is that we don't know whether Subtle Matter actually exists (it's basically an analogue of the soul), so we also don't know whether his consciousness is still in the body or truly in another world.

[little gazelle]

Do we even have any idea if the shining zone is connected to that of other’s or if each person sees what they thought they wanted to see?

[weary bough]

Oooh. That makes it even more mysterious for me at least

[little gazelle]

If the idea is you either die to get to the shining or you get zombified to get there.

[normal drum]

According to the Representative, the Subtle Matter specifically is the realm where the mental images can communicate with each other. There was a critical issue after the 2nd Carribean experiment because mental images became isolated from each other, the Representative wanted to fix it. So no, it's probably not just a personal illusion.

[weary bough]

||wish sin wasn't cut content||

[little gazelle]

Then does that mean that the zombies that talk about their kids, their kids are dead

[normal drum]

Not necessarily. It's possible that they could look into their own memories in the Noosphere (kind of what Strider does to Skif, but to themselves).

There are also zombified that feel cold, see nothing or either see or hear many people. It could be explained that they are trapped in the Subtle Matter because of the consequences of the 2nd Carribean experiment. Like how Strider was isolated and didn’t even know he's already dead (but immediately touches the place which was stabbed after he was reminded). Or the voice that can be heard near the X15 capsule which screams that they feel cold and see nothing. It's just a voice from seemingly nowhere, so it most probably comes from the Subtle World.

[robust laurel]

At least Scar had a line at the sawmill. I don’t know how it sounds in English, but in Ukrainian it was something like: “And what’s there? Eternal spring? A Klondike of artifacts? A new home? To each their own.”

Which could imply that everyone truly sees their own personal paradise.

[little gazelle]

When skif can tell Scar its a mind prison its probably not far off.

Feels like if its not linked to other people’s but is just a personal thing, it seems like such a shame to die because you weren’t worried about what happened after in a way.

[normal drum]

The problem was that Skif couldn't see the full picture. When he saw Strider there, it totally looked like a mind prison. But he had a choice: to pursue the goal to free everyone or not (if Skif chooses Spark, he doesn't say that it is so good up there but that they are going to make it worth: "It was him. He’s alive in the Noosphere — alone and trapped, but alive. And so are the others! The Shining will set them free, Scar and I will do whatever it takes to make it happen! I need to talk to the Representative again, and then the miracle will finally unfold.").
Skif can believe that immortality in the Zone is possible even without joining with Spark but argue that "the life is for the living", that "if the dead start talking to us, we’ll end up slaughtering each other. And then there won’t be peace for us – not even in death.".

You can choose the Spark in Orbita and then choose the Ward after that, and in the scene in the Foundation Skif won't even deny that he saw real Strider but will still pursue the goal to destroy the Zone and the Subtle Matter with it.

[little gazelle]

but does the shining set people free

i feel like we have no way of knowing if what we see at the end is a personal view that Skif sees or if it's actually linked to the other people

like Mugwort is there but he isn't dead. but then again Skif is there and he isn't dead just zombified it seems. but idk if i feel like it's really those people or the memories of those people.

[normal drum]

The choice is yours, of course, how to see it in the end. It's just that I don't see a point for Representative to put everyone in a delusional coma. They were idealists, they truly wanted to help people to evolve (even if it's a very twisted way to do it).

[little gazelle]

another thing i never got is how the Wishgranter made Skif see things that never happened yet he calls them memories, or why the Wishgranter's Korshunov refers to Skif as Strelok's friend when Skif hasn't even met Strelok at that point yet lol

[normal drum]

He called Skif Strider's friend, not Strelok's.

[little gazelle]

the Representative seemed like they wanted to do good but i just don't know if i think the shining zone is that if they wanted to get rid of certain traits in humanity.

you sure? i feel like it was Strelok's name that was said

[normal drum]

Yes, quote: "Strider’s buddy isn't walking out of here alive. I'm putting an end to this farce. Kill the stalker!"

[little gazelle]

i guess he does

at least from this 1 year old video clip.

[normal drum]

They wanted to remove all negative traits from humanity, but Kaymanov pointed out that eventually people will just return to their initial state (either because new, unaltered people will be born or because of people's nature itself). C-Consciousness needed a way to make this change constant for it to be effective but they didn't see how to do it so they've tried out their initial plan in 2006. However, they've discovered a way after they were killed by Strelok - to make everyone immortal and equal within the Noosphere, to strip away their physical limits and therefore their nature, so the world would finally become perfect.

[little gazelle]

couldn't they have tried to fix the zone or spread it so that the world was a zone and then everyone would be affected by the changes to the noosphere in regards to the bad traits

another thing for the spark ending is, the representative says they wanted to spread what they were doing to the whole world eventually but like, what happens if everyone is zombified like that

[normal drum]

They didn't want the Zone in the first place. They tried to remove negative traits of all humanity in once but failed. And it's not only because Kaymanov shot the variometer. Doctor pointed out that their actions could lead to a global catastrophe instead of altering humanity. They rushed to start the experiment without the Supervisory Board knowing about it. Everything was in flames even before Kaymanov arrived to the O-CTA.
I don't see a way they could've repeated the experiment after they failed initially, even if they had fixed the Zone. They had no resources nor time to learn from their mistakes and try again.
However, after they'd died, they started to see the Zone not as a mistake but as an opportunity. They've thrown away the old plan. The Subtle Matter existed only within the Zone. That's why I believe that they actually expanded the Zone (or will do it) to the whole world in Scar's ending.
What will happen if everyone's zombified? Nothing, the "old world" is not needed anymore. We know that the zombified people are immortal (theoretically, it's even possible to restore a person with the help of the Noosphere), but it's not even important because the physical body is not required for the existence in the Subtle World. Zombification is just a side effect of transferring humanity to the Subtle World.
The only thing that has to function is C-Consciousness' control of the Noosphere via the Foundation and Scar in the capsule. Because of their control of the X-Network and the Generators, they can repair everything they need with the help of the anomalous energy.
(A reminder that in my vision the Subtle Matter exists as a physical thing but it is impossible to know it the consciousnesses inside it are the same as them in the physical world or just copies of them as I've mentioned in #s2-lore-discussions message)

[little gazelle]

they went against the Regulatory Board when they did the thing, was it the Carribian experiment? lol

[normal drum]

No, the Caribbean experiment is what happened in 1995.

[little gazelle]

the Board sounded like they had more selfish goals

[normal drum]

They did, they wanted a monopoly over the anomalous energy. There would be a significant, unimaginable rise of technological progress for humanity, but for a cost. However, it's not exactly what happens in the Ward ending because only Agatha controls the Noosphere, not the whole Regulatory Board, and she has her own ideals of happiness for humanity.

[little gazelle]

also if everyone is affected The Shining as in being taken there wether they want to or not because it didn't seem like it was a choice given to me. that means the real world's people will all be zombified and then they'll either die simply just exist there but no more people are being born etc. idk how well that would work out really

like the credits screen gives vibes of the zone being full of bodies or zombies

[normal drum]

The point is that they won't die. I don't know if children will be possible to make in this world, but yeah, that's also a cost C-Con was willing to pay.

[robust laurel]

We don't know whether new people truly won’t be born anymore. Because it’s a matter of consciousness, not just the body. At least in the stalker universe

[little gazelle]

prolly won't be if people had to die in the real world to go there and i don't recall hearing about people who came from there to the real world instead

[robust laurel]

It’s intentionally portrayed as something bad because the game’s main message is the question of freedom of choice, so all the other endings are depicted as something negative.

[little gazelle]

i think i asked about blind dogs ignoring Skif and the other seemingly zombified stalker that is moving in that scene, but in the game mutants are hostile to zombies iirc.

[normal drum]

It's like a saying "There is no sex in the USSR" And C-Con come from that era.

[robust laurel]

They ignore the Strelok ending too.

[normal drum]

Shining Zone is practically USSR for them if they'd achieved communism

[little gazelle]

yeah because Strelok controls the zone in that ending.

[robust laurel]

Yes, they control the Zone too.

[little gazelle]

hasn't there been things in the other games too where it was hinted or speculated that C-Con too could control mutants? or at least some of them

[robust laurel]

Yes

[normal drum]

It's only hinted (frequent, practically organised raids of mutants from the north through the Barrier). The new almanac and collection cards info says that the Brain Scorcher is also responsible for controlling mutants.

The Leash project existed, too.

[little gazelle]

i wish a bit we knew more about MSDT

C-Con lost access to the zone for what, 10 years?

i think the Rep mentioned that and experiments stopped and X-labs stopped doing things and the STALKER program seeminly was the only thing to keep running

[jaunty comet]

Since spirit wasn’t affected by the signal due to the psi protection of the Spark Bunker I wonder if there any other former monolithians unaffected by the signal

[little gazelle]

well if there was other places where they could've been shielded from the signal, yeah.

[little gazelle]

recently some of us talked about the Shining Zone and i've come to think that it's not a shared thing but it's only a personal vision that you see while you've been zombified if you don't just die from the Spark ending. like at the campfire in the Shining Zone, we see Spirit, we see Star, we see Richter, we see Scar. Scar is in the pod, he cannot leave the pod but he might be able to link into Skif's vision or something. anyway, we also see Mugwort, but the thing is...that guy was alive at the end as far as we saw, but if he is alive i feel as he should sit at the campfire together with Skif in the real world.

TL:DR
i think the shining is only a personal view because Mugwort isn't next to Skif at the campfire in the real world. lol

[hexed flame]

Irl proximity is likely irrelevant

The game can be interpreted both ways that the shining zone is real or it isnt but there is no definitive proof for either especially since major events drastically change depending on your chosen path (dead valley spark vs ward)

But if its real its kinda like just another dimension for your soul really

Well 'soul' I mean your whole being

[normal drum]

People don't need to be at the same spot in the physical world to see each other in the Subtle World (the dead are in the grave but you still see them ). Everyone can manipulate the Subtle World like Faust, teleport, change things around etc.

[ornate venture]

hollowshade_yt has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[robust laurel]

Updated list of all lore inconsistencies in the almanac and the collection cards' data (in Ukrainian, use a translator)
#❔┃сюжет message

[ornate venture]

jw_4l has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[inner vault]

Honestly has to be skifs, the others feel like they're put in just to have something to replay the game for 🤷‍♂️

[celest wagon]

Yea I agree. The others just don't work except BIG MAYBE Strelok which even then I consider so unlikely it's not happening

[modern pawn]

the ward or perhaps agatha was the only faction to offer what skif originally wanted, a new house.
but the zone going out like that, nah unlikely
strelok's ending nearly all are satisfied. zone's closed off so duty and ward's ok with it. zone still exist so spark and freedom are happy,
scar's ending is just a fever dream gone bad
so skif's ending does seem to be the most canon one

[hexed flame]

The fact he originally wanted a new home doesnt really matter since its partially metaphorical (he has seemingly no friends relatives or even pets his hobby is watching the tv basically and losing that apartment was just the last straw)+he evolves throughout the story as a character

But I feel like he was looking for a place to be and some sort of purpose not JUST LITERALLY A HOME even if thats what he claims in dialogues

[smoky hornet]

I’m more confused on how the Strelok ending satisfies everyone lmao

[modern pawn]

true i forgot, he did say he had nothing left in the mainland

[hexed flame]

He also got more than just a house agatha literally says 'get this man whatever he needs' so he could probably wish for way more than that and get it in the future

[acoustic wigeon]

the zone is a huge danger and ever since its creation scientists and corporations have been looking to exploit it in the most horrific ways with human experiments, mind control experiments and even several attempts to subject the entire human race to a mind altering super consciousness to dictate their behavior?

Yeah, lock it up, keep everyone out forever, throw away the key and fill the hole you put they key in up with concrete then shoot it into space, sounds good to me tbh

[smoky hornet]

The small problem is:
No one knows that outside Ward & Spark

[hexed flame]

These experiments have nothing to do with the actual zone they were carried out before it existes and didnt need any specific place either that area was just convenient

[acoustic wigeon]

I'm quite sure everyone in the zone knows it's dangerous, and Duty and Freedom 100% know about experiments as such, as does the military

[acoustic wigeon]

they happen there because there's no oversight, because of the zone, so lock up the zone and the area without oversight is locked off

[smoky hornet]

Also there’s multiple generators in the world, what’s stopping Agatha from cracking a new wound open to get at the Noosphere before Strelok could do anything. If he isn’t just bound to the Zone.

[normal drum]

He controls the Noosphere, not just the Zone. He can prevent any attempts at changing the status quo.

[hexed flame]

They happened there BECAUSE there is oversight lmao this oversight excluded the general population from the area and the gov just turned a blind eye or even supported it since from what I understand some of the experiments happened even before the chernobyl disaster (im not sure but I think psi antennas were tested)
They could do this in the aral sea deadzone just as well and it would net the same result

[acoustic wigeon]

no oversight from anyone besides the organisations running the experiments of course 🙄

[hexed flame]

Yeah its almost as if governments can just do that

[acoustic wigeon]

and let's not even mention that there's a real recurring pattern of scientists going rogue in there

[smoky hornet]

Truthfully that makes him just as bad as C-Con in my eyes

[hexed flame]

Ever heard of the multiple testing areas in the US

Military polygons ?
Secret cities in the USSR?

You dont need a whole ass chornobyl exclusion zone for this the game just chose it because its cool

[acoustic wigeon]

yup, none that do human experiments to turn people into controllers, snorks and bloodsuckers while looking to subject the entirety of humanity to mind altering technology, and if there were I'd also want them to be closed off

[hexed flame]

Siversk-13 or Norilsk didnt need no disaster cover up

[hexed flame]

1. You wouldnt know its secret
2. The gov says no therefore no your viewpoint is waaay too democracy centric for the real world

In the real world a gov can just make up a secret city cordon it off and farm plutonium there in secret (russia lol)

[acoustic wigeon]

yes, but Strelok does know its secrets, so he locks it up, which i support, because if i'd know the secret i'd suggest the same

[normal drum]

Why so? He saved humanity from being controlled through the Noosphere. There was no other way (other than Skif's) to prevent someone to just try again to reach the Noosphere. If not the Regulatory Board, then just some other organisation / faction could do that, Strelok gave a permanent solution to this problem.

[hexed flame]

...have you listened to the guy ?

Where did he mention experiments

[acoustic wigeon]

what?

[smoky hornet]

Because he makes an absolute decision to alter reality (Locking the Noosphere away) on his own ‘for the good of humanity’

Even if Strelok clearly does not give a fuck about humanity

[acoustic wigeon]

good freaking decision right there tbh

locking away that power is like the nuclear non proliferation treaty, it's freaking based and rooted in a desire to stop abuse and violence

[smoky hornet]

No the fuck it isn’t

Where the hell are people getting the idea that Strelok is doing this for anything but his own obsession

[acoustic wigeon]

yes, it is, there is 0 arguing to be had about the non proliferation treaty for nuclear weapons following the exact same logic that Strelok uses to lock away access to the noosphere, it's dangerous, it's potentially world ending, and he prevents people getting their hands on it

[normal drum]

Of course he does this out of his obsession with the Zone, does this make his decision to lock the Zone from everyone bad?

[acoustic wigeon]

intent vs result

[smoky hornet]

Because here the thing you’re kind of missing
Why would he stop Agatha from doing something outside the Zone? He got what he wanted

[hexed flame]

THIS

[acoustic wigeon]

the intent of the NPT is also to make sure nuclear powers remain nuclear powers, they don't do that from the goodness of their hearts, they have a vested interest in keeping their weapons away from the rest

[hexed flame]

The nuclear proliferation treaty was literally designed to cement the advantage of huge countries with existing warhead stockpiles and to deter small countries that would be otherwise defenseless from pursuing the one weapon that scares away superpowers

[acoustic wigeon]

If Agatha had the means to do it outside of the zone she wouldn't be crawling around a radioactive wasteland with thousands of desperate, hostile fighters around her

[acoustic wigeon]

lmao no

[normal drum]

Because the Zone is tied to the Noosphere and any meddling with the Noosphere will ultimately affect his Zone?

[hexed flame]

Lmao yes

[smoky hornet]

And if Strelok has absolute control over the Noosphere, what’s stopping him from just closing off that area of the Noosphere?

[hexed flame]

There is literally a war going on rn for this precise reason and its being fought by a country that was a huge supported of the nuclear non proliferation treaty lmfao

[smoky hornet]

Cut the politics

[acoustic wigeon]

nothing, he'd probably do that, to protect his zone

[hexed flame]

Not gonna discuss any simply stating the reality (i even avoided naming it directly for this reason)

[smoky hornet]

Just getting ahead of the curve

[hexed flame]

Anyway both strelok and that nuclear thing were motivated by selfish desires of someone obsessed with control

And accidentally maybe did something good

[normal drum]

What do you mean? He won't care about anything Agatha or others do in the world unless it's affecting the Zone/Noosphere. Or you mean that he can offer her a part of the Noosphere to play with?

[acoustic wigeon]

and both of them limit the spread of very, very dangerous weapons quite effectively

which makes them an absolute good in my book

[hexed flame]

Nope

Countries that want them pursue anyway (korea)
Countries that had them limited stock cause its expensive as hell

Strelok's thing worked tho

[acoustic wigeon]

indeed, Strelok's limiting of the spread of dangerous weapons and research is even more effective than the NPT, great win in my book

[smoky hornet]

Until someone gives him the C Con treatment and blows his brains out too

[hexed flame]

Well
Yes

[smoky hornet]

Honestly I think he’d be more vulnerable honestly because he doesn’t have the brain power of C Con lmao

In the literal sense

[smoky hornet]

Some utterly sloshed loner blows Strelok’s brains out with a rusty sawed off just to take his boots

I think I derailed Kiber’s thought process lmao

[acoustic wigeon]

he's completely unlike the c-con, the c-con was a joined consciousness designed to breach the ionosphere-noosphere barrier by force to acces the noosphere, where Strelok now is a mediator created in the noosphere itself

[normal drum]

If you want an analogy, then Degtyarev = Strelok, but with Prypiat instead of the Zone. He prevents anyone to go to the city and rip it off. Does this make Degtyarev as bad as the C-Con?

[smoky hornet]

Deggy is protecting a graveyard of a city, Strelok locked off an entire layer of reality

[normal drum]

He is protecting the literal Clondike of the Artifacts.

Every stalker wants to go to Prypiat.

Just like any stalker wants to go to the Zone to steal from it (from Strelok's perspective).

[acoustic wigeon]

he's not even wrong about that, there's two types of people in the zone, those looking to loot it for wealth (bandits, loners, freedom and ward) and those who'd rather see it destroyed (duty, probably military, and curiously enough, also ward, but just so they can loot it more effeciently)

[normal drum]

"Anyone staking a claim to my city will be destroyed by the Corps or the Zone itself." - Degtyarev

[hexed flame]

Its amusing that we were talking about this yesterday and today I stumbled upon a book by Alice Lugen about the secret russian cities

[celest wagon]

I think it's what he wanted originally. As he had no real purpose. That was until the Zone gave him a purpose he didn't know he needed.

[brittle token]

Wife and daughter live to watch me play stalker, but I ran into an emission, daughter kept asked what and why it happens, and I realized I kind of dont know. I havent played the old games sense release.
What are emissions and how/why do they happen

[normal drum]

The Zone is essentially a place where the barrier between the physical world and the Noosphere was damaged by the scientists who ran secret labs there. This barrier is not completely gone, but the anomalous energy (which creates anomalies and artifacts) is constantly leaking from there. A big installation called the Generators which stands in "the centre of the Zone" (north of the Chornobyl Nuclear Power Plant) tries to contain the anomalous energy but is in need to regularly "discharge" itself, causing huge bursts of anomalous energy called Emissions. Emissions can recharge the old anomalies or/and creates new ones. After each Emission there's a big chance to find new artifacts in big anomalous fields.