s2-lore-discussions

[hexed flame]

Honestly half the artifacts could be named that and no one would bat an eye

[minor anchor]

The Noosphere is essentially the third stage in the Earth's "Evolution" that is the sum of all human knowledge and conscious

[tough wing]

peeps don't take it too concret. The Noosphere is just an abstract concept about where humanity as a whole will head to.
u could argue which story will win in the end if u consider the different endings in Stalker 2. u as the player is driven by your own ideology which makes the choices for you and creates the reality in Stalker 2.

[robust laurel]

I recently wrote about this in a Ukrainian-language chat.
In the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. universe, the concept of the Noosphere has its own definition, which differs from the one in real life.
Here is more detail about it (you can translate the text).

#❔┃сюжет message

[hexed flame]

It clearly isnt abstract lol

[ornate venture]

yanaxxer has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[midnight vault]

Ok so according to CoP, Monolithians is still a thing even after C-Con has been destroyed, and they were still in Pripyat? does that mean the Corps have been fighting them for years even before the signal?

[normal drum]

The war against the Monolithians continued until at least 2014, with notable engagements in the Lesser Zone (Zalissya, Sphere, Perimeter) and at the Red Fortress. Probably in Prypiat, too.

[shrewd igloo]

Monolithians are made of hopium

[lusty oyster]

Is there a good, detailed recap of the story somewhere?

I’m talking down to the dialogue

[ornate venture]

hanime_master has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[ornate venture]

vrf_farr has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[cyan geyser]

Just noticed something

If you look south of the river from the Bridge to Limansk, you can see the Duga from there. That array was a receiver, and Limansk had a small Duga-type antenna of its own. Wonder if that's just a coincidence, or... something much, much worse happened in that town

[hexed flame]

Lymansk had a mini duga because it had some sort of radiowave institute (the building you fight near at the end of the level) however id wager thats there because CS devs couldnt make the actual duga due to technical or time limitations so they just made up a mini one

[cyan geyser]

I know one of the reasons they scaled it down was because it dwarfed the whole town, less of a feature. What I’m wondering is if the antennas are working in conjunction with each other

[hexed flame]

It was a lab for testing radio/psi stuff independent from the duga

Btw the duga is a bit of a huge plothole because...from what I know the two antennas in chernobyl are RECEIVERS and the emitters were located in liubech, outside the exclusion zone

And since the radioinstitute is a mini duga that means its also the receiver (emitters dont even look similar)
This implies that all the psi experiments and also using the duga to reactivate the monolith would have been impossible because this infrastructure is not meant to emit anything

And the emitter is decomissioned and from what I understand mostly torn down so

[cyan geyser]

To be fair, they could retcon some aspect of its design. Or maybe it was receiving the signals from the Brain Scorcher 🤷‍♂️
For some reason I can never remember where Limansk is on the map- I’m hoping that’s coincidental lol

[cyan geyser]

Actually the transmitter in Lyubech looked pretty similar to the Duga we all now know and love and fear. There could be something to work with. Looking at old footage of it now

[hexed flame]

Likely because it isnt real

But its just west of pripyat in lore

[cyan geyser]

I thought Stalker was real 😱

[cyan geyser]

Ohhhh yeah, Red Forest 🤦‍♂️

[hexed flame]

Technically I think you can also call it duga since its part of it but anyway they look clearly different

Pretty sure the BS is also duga like in soc

Nvm I misremembered it looks more like the antennas in lyubech

[shrewd igloo]

On "making clear sky" video the devs say that they added any antena but that were inmense compared to the map or smth like that, soooo for looking and logical purposes they just added a few antenas, have more than 3-4 antenas will be weird due to that the map is sooo small

[vital pollen]

They said in the making of video that they did a draft with real-sized Duga but it made the town look small in comparison so they shrunk it down

[vital pollen]

lmao

Anyway peak example of old GSC taking real life only as inspiration and being free to make changes (that’s why OG geography rulez :P)

[hexed flame]

It would defo be huge

[hexed flame]

Tbf the new duga is a way better location than lymansk the only issue it has is its innacessible most of the game

[cyan geyser]

Are you sure we’re looking at the same arrays? I saw the one in Lyubech and they look remarkably similar- if the video I saw was the real thing anyway. Filmed there in 98

[hexed flame]

It looked denser to me

[elder bobcat]

Which in hindsight may turn out a way better decision long-term, assuming GSC plays their cards right in the upcoming DLC. Lymansk is originally based on a specific district in Kyiv with buildings dated 1950-60s, whilst the Chornobyl-2 Duga itself was constructed in the 70s — but historically the first experimental OTHRS of the type were indeed made in the early 60s, meaning the in-game Radiowave antenna could be portrayed as some sort of proto-Duga in HoC without even changing its initial model much & it'd also make total sense within the historical context.

[hexed flame]

Their references can be so cool sometimes afaik og rostok was loosely based on some buildings near their HQ (correct me if im wrong) and the new garbage settlement (slagheap) is based on a radioactive waste storage facility

[cyan geyser]

People dump on Limansk, but I enjoyed it. The backstory behind it is peak Stalker, and the visual aesthetic behind is both cozy, and eerie in a way that only Stalker can achieve. I didn’t like its linearity, but I enjoyed it as a setting and really hope it returns in DLC as a second shot at getting that town right- the only other city in the game that can come close to competing with Pripyat

[elder bobcat]

As someone who's been living in 20 minutes of walk from Lymansk's literal real-life counterpart — yea, it does hit home 😁

[hexed flame]

Honestly it might kinda suffer from its own success cause I feel like if they make it non linear it will kinda suck as a place

The linear design created this illusion of scale that made it seem like a large town when in reality you were basically just going through one street's worth of buildings

[barren badge]

limansk expansion in a future content addition would be amazing. its super proper material for expanding on the x labs like they appeared in SoC as straight up horror films, and rich with atmosphere building parts that hint at various parts of the stalker lore. super great place lol i hate how rushed it was in CS but i understand why they needed to do that for plot reasons. but also i love when limansk is featured in fanmade mods cause its always fun seeing what they can come up with for this city of secrets

[vital pollen]

OG Rostok as in pre-SoC variant, just so it’s clear

[elder bobcat]

Lymansk in CS is essentially the "SoC Prypiat segment" of the game, albeit executed lvls better in terms of pacing & dynamic. Prypiat did feel like a repetitive one-way corridor, where all you have to do is try & pinpoint the Monolithians sniping you from all over the place & push through them towards one single point on the map — Lymansk, while generally carrying the same purpose, constantly provides different scenery, enemies & tasks for the players to complete on their way out of the town: first you have to fight off the bandits ambush & tasked to take down the exo-wearing machinegun-wielding miniboss (the only bandit NPC in the franchise equipped like that, iirc); secondly you have to deal with Monolithians who ambushed the squads of Freedom & Duty deeper into the town; thirdly the game has you pushing across the river towards a house filled with military stalkers; coming next the game puts a little teleportation puzzle in front of you to find the way around & then you have to deal with Monolithians again, but this time in a more 70s-looking area whilst being put at a disadvantage due to the enemies occupying the strategical heights — I call it "disadvantageous verticality", which has also played a big role in SoC undergrounds being as scary as they were; after that undebatably memorable suffering (the "GRANATA!" cries will be visiting you in the nightmares for days) you're being sent to disarm the electrical trap the Monolithians have set up for the advancing CS troops & only then you finally make it to the Hospital. It's amazing how they've spaced out this whole segment whilst constantly introducing some variety in challenges — it's kinda the same thing as Prypiat in SoC & the parts within the Lymansk segment have you sorta doing the same stuff repeatedly in general, yet it's different in details & when you start analyzing em you realise the genius behind it... It's just unfortunate that in 2008 it was probably the most technically bust part of the game 🤷‍♂️

[vital pollen]

I disagree, Prypiat still feels like a semi-open level where you have a set path, yes, but you can deviate from it and go a different way. It’s also a level you can revisit and see new stuff. It’s considerably less linear, so the comparison is apples to oranges.

[hexed flame]

The soc pripyat ? Its mega linear

[vital pollen]

Not nearly as much as Lymansk

Where you just follow a set path from one street to another with any deviation from it leading you to invisible walls

[hexed flame]

Yeah instead you bust through a linear alley only to arrive at a different line going at a 90°angle

And when you clear that you exit

[elder bobcat]

You can deviate from the rails the game puts you on in Prypiat, but there's no point nor need in doing so gameplay-wise. The only distinct thing you can consider a bonus content if you stray off is clearing out the main Monolith base — but is it really different from clearing out Monolithians elsewhere on the location, does it impact anything moving forward? Hardly. Revisiting Prypiat just to see some new squads/encounters roaming around is something only the researchers of this series really do, otherwise Prypiat does indeed serve the exact same gameplay purpose as Lymansk with the real differences being those I've described above & the fact that Prypiat, unlike Lymansk, is not a "point of no return", hence why it's still possible to go back for resupplying 'n stuff. Within the gameplay of a "final push through the town" Lymansk has done a much better job at providing players with a constantly changing scenery & making em thoroughly engaged than Prypiat, which only constantly throws Monolithians at you and, perhaps, some military stalkers if you, for some reason, decide that you rly need that military suit near the shot down helicopter. A quality step forward that was unfortunately completely overshadowed by the fact Clear Sky simply refused to work properly in Lymansk months into release, halving your frames & crashing pretty much every time more than a single grenade was sent your way (which, given it's CS we're talking about, was essentially every time grenades got involved).

[fathom veldt]

a prison is also semi-open 🙂

[ornate venture]

drfreddy87 has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

stalker091838 has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[ornate venture]

johnson_antileft has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[lean spruce]

Why are the fireball and lighting ball anomalies called that and not tesla or comet like in the trilogy? Are there any real diferences? I havent explored north of the red forest but i doubt theres any variation to see in regards of anomalies.

[hexed flame]

I mean the comet was a bit brighter I think so it actually looked like one
They also follow u if you have artifacts equipped but thats the only diff
As for variety this game has a lot of missable non threatening visual anomalies actually

[frosty ridge]

Thinking about how Dalin throwing the C-Con module into the large variometer parallels Kaymanov shooting the variometer in 2006............

[primal acorn]

They are still called Tesla and comets in the files, lightning ball and fireball is just like slang

[ornate venture]

pimpchimpinit has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[ornate venture]

khlebnyixkhleb has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[opal briar]

Can someone explain to me what stalker 2 is about, I'm very new and would like to know some lore about it, interesting characters or factions

[fathom veldt]

sure i don't see why not

pick a topic:
https://www.youtube.com/@anomalousdugout/videos

[opal briar]

This one
https://youtu.be/FPwMgg5qpcw?is=9lrUqvHQXNDaDlI7

[barren spear]

What do yall think that mutant at the end of the trailer was?

[radiant harness]

Kadaver

[barren spear]

The funky baby lookin thing?

[radiant harness]

tahts the brain at the labs

[hexed flame]

Its a psi fetus @barren spear

I think they were mentioned in the artbook or somewhere

Also someone in the game mentions seeing them or that someone said they saw them I think

[barren spear]

Wonder if that's what's talking to skif at the end of the trailer

[hexed flame]

Likely
Its also likely responsible for stories untold

I assume that these fetuses somehow reactivated the miracle machine and used it

[barren spear]

Hope we get to talk with one. Would be cool to know how the mutants think. Also what kind of mutant do you think the psi fetuses are? Like do you think they're how poltergeists,burers and controllers are made or do you think they're their own thing? Maybe not controllers now that I think of it

[hexed flame]

I assume they are their own thing and I assume they are highly intelligent in some way maybe a hive mind
They pose 0 physical threat so whatever they are its got to do with their brains

[barren spear]

Hm. I was just wondering cuz i think the poltergeists started off in test tubes/tanks maybr the burers and controllers did too.

[fathom veldt]

hmmm so we get some faction little war

how the hell skiff was and were and heard things what a hell

[elder bobcat]

It's in the PDA audiolog found inside the hut in the Rookie Village where Wolf & Multitool are living

[pearl mirage]

Do we know how much other Countries have tried to see into the zone? I know about the Drone wreck site in Call of Pripyat. Are there any other noted incidents?

[hexed flame]

No also its officially a secret and we dont know what other govs know

[plush jetty]

its set in 2021. all satellites. there is no secret

IPSF is international guards

The IPSF succeeded the units of the Ukrainian military responsible for securing and containing the Zone,[2] following its expansion.[3] The coalition is soldiers from other countries, such as Italy, Germany and the USA.[4]

[hexed flame]

Satellites arent the end all of secrecy
Also from what the journalist says its very clear the zone is still a secret when it comes to the general population

As for ipsf we dont know how these people were recruited and if or what information their governments possess

[smoky hornet]

Dalin has a publicly broadcasted interview about the zone in the opening cutscene

[hexed flame]

He remembered about a group of students disappearing near the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone sometime in 2005-2010[1]. He set out to investigate the disappearance and subsequent coverup. He reached out to SIRCAA, claiming to posess information about an "object". On April 21, 2014, he received minimum clearance and was secretly put under surveillance.
Journalist lore
This clearly implies the zone was not commonly known about up until then
Also he seemingly acts insanely paranoid in HOC so I assume while the zone is a known place what goes on is completely under scrutiny of...whoever the hell controls the info

Like obviously people know there is this weird secluded area there but whats inside and what it actually is seems to be obstructed from them and they sure as shit dont know about the mini war within

[plush jetty]

writers just run out of ink

[elder bobcat]

That drone belongs to Strelok's Group, lol

[vital pollen]

I do not think that’s true, just that it recorded the stash coordinates, intentionally or otherwise

I will need to check the design documentation to be sure

[frosty ridge]

The UN sent a scientific expedition into the Zone at one point and they all turned up dead. GSC really liked this plot point and tried to put it in a bunch of times but most of the references got scrapped, including depictions of the cut “UNISG”, but there IS CANONICAL CONFIRMATION in a few places that the UN sent scientists in. Notably in Nimble’s dialogue when buying guns (especially the rifles) in CoP he mentions a lot of them came from UN forces who came to the Zone, and each one you buy fleshes out the story a bit more.

[hexed flame]

^ yeah the scientists in the CS opening cutscene were meant to be unisg and it was meant to show generators

[muted needle]

Every single time someone says “UNISG” unironically, a child dies of malnutrition.
Every single time someone says the name of the toothpaste brigade, a person dies of fluoride poisoning.
Every single time someone brings up the Colgate camo into a lore discussion, they should be mocked until they leave in shame.
-# ⓘ Signed • 𝓜𝓸𝓷𝓼𝓽𝓮𝓻 𝓘𝓷 𝓐 𝓓𝓻𝓪𝔀𝓮𝓻 👑⁨

[frosty ridge]

Yeah a ton of that stuff got cut, but what DID get in is confirmation of the UN scientists going in by Nimble

I’ve had arguments about this for so many years I am always careful to specify that I know about the cut stuff but there are like TEN LINES that confirm they exist and I will die on this hill

[vital pollen]

unisg

[muted needle]

Whirlgig-able offense
-# ⓘ Signed • 𝓜𝓸𝓷𝓼𝓽𝓮𝓻 𝓘𝓷 𝓐 𝓓𝓻𝓪𝔀𝓮𝓻 👑⁨

[radiant harness]

*ISG

[elder bobcat]

It's interesting who'd need the coordinates of Strelok's Group stashes besides the group itself

[vital pollen]

Them using multi million dollar piece of equipment for a purpose that any PDA can deal with is even less plausible

The design documentation does not say anything other than it having GPS coordinates of the stashes, but the dialogues mention the drone only crashing recently as stalkers at Jupiter saw it fall. So if the idea is that not only it belonged to Strelok’s group but also continued being operational when said group was already not functional, it sounds even more unlikely

In the end it’s just poor writing with a random drone conveniently somehow getting where the stashes are.

[elder bobcat]

"We need that shit in the game & idc how we do it"

[hexed flame]

Its like the tarkov shoreline drone its there cuz??

[muted needle]

It is still punishable by being thrown into a Burner.
-# ⓘ Signed • 𝓜𝓸𝓷𝓼𝓽𝓮𝓻 𝓘𝓷 𝓐 𝓓𝓻𝓪𝔀𝓮𝓻 👑

[vital pollen]

ISG is still a random piece of writing on the texture, devs only ever referred to the group as UN

[radiant harness]

So youd just call them UN

[vital pollen]

yes

[ornate venture]

wojti_ttv has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[hexed flame]

They are an ISG unit of UN therefore UNISG

[vital pollen]

They are never referred to as “ISG unit”

Again, it’s just a writing on the texture. They’re UN. They have always been only referred to as UN.

In every concept art, piece of design documentation, etc.

“UNISG” was entirely coined by fans, and even calling them ISG is stupid

[hexed flame]

Doesnt matter calling them UN is stupid because UN is a huge organisation with one billion different branches that do completely different things and so fans used the texture to find something to differentiate them from for example blue helmets which these are NOT
Therefore UNISG

[vital pollen]

Calling “loners” “loners” is also stupid as they are not always alone. But that’s their name. Fans don’t get to choose that, devs do.

[hexed flame]

Dying on this hill is hilarious anyway its like trying to make a point that actually we should call monolith MDST or C-con

[vital pollen]

No, because Monolith, MDST and C-Con are all names coined by devs

Just like calling that group UN

[hexed flame]

And since ISG was written on the texture so is this

Besides with abandoned content what the devs chose to do with it is irrelevant to the community

[vital pollen]

“Chornobyl Exclusion Zone” is written on loners texture, that does not translate into the name of the faction

[hexed flame]

Because its a name of a location lol

Here we have some unknown UN unit marked with ISG therefore they are UNISG until someone can prove ISG is specifically something unrelated

And again calling them just UN is stupid because of the fact these are distinct from the blue helmets

[vital pollen]

Yes, and with a single texture on a pocket “International Scientific Group” may e.g. refer only specifically to specific NPCs such as leaders (because the concept art featuring alt models was not implemented)

[hexed flame]

May

[vital pollen]

They ARE called UN, whether it’s stupid or not. It’s the name devs used.

[hexed flame]

And its a stupid umbrella name and i will call it out

[vital pollen]

In concept art, in design documentation, in voice lines for this scene.

And I will call out trying to put out fanon in lore discussions because that’s just confusing

[hexed flame]

And so I will continue using the superior name coined by the community aka UNISG

[vital pollen]

That’s the reason we got “super emissions” and “archanomalies”

[hexed flame]

'Fanon' lmao

[vital pollen]

Because some idiots really liked their fan names over less descriptive canon

[hexed flame]

Its literally written on them but ok enjoy your pointless purism

[vital pollen]

And that’s the reason we almost got “Swamp Doctor”

“UNISG” isn’t either way

Nothing purist about correcting to use the name the group was actually called

[hexed flame]

Also none of these are cut content where we dont have full info about them and doc in particular is another example of a terrible name because by itself its a very non specific word

However calling a unit of the UN that is clearly marked with something just 'UN' is idiotic
Its like calling WHO 'UN'

[vital pollen]

Yes but it is THE canon word. The fact that fans tried to give him an alternative nickname that by mistake almost became a part of HoC because new writers got confused is a travesty. That’s a lesson why we should avoid introducing stuff like that

[hexed flame]

No fanon in calling them by their markings either

[hexed flame]

Its not canon because they arent even a part of canon lmao

They are some obscure scrapped idea that had leftover lines left in the game

And if not for the community digging through old files and scripts no one would remember they existed

And again the name UNISG is superior

[vital pollen]

In this case it’s less a canon thing and more “knowing dev history” thing because I have absolutely seen idiots thinking they are called unisg thanks to anomaly

[hexed flame]

Wow a mod introduced them back into the game with a less confusing name than unfinished design documents and leftover dialogue how terrible

[vital pollen]

They simply aren’t referred to like that, it’s a random writing on a very clearly temporary texture, while UN is a name used throughout design documentation, concept arts and temporary voice acting for almost a year

[hexed flame]

And its a stupid name that doesnt differentiate enough so UNISG is a superior name based on a piece of actual assets made for them

[vital pollen]

It does not need to differentiate

[hexed flame]

Yes it does

[vital pollen]

They are UN and that’s it, that’s the official name.

[hexed flame]

UN is too broad of a term to use in case of a small unit like this and also there is 0 context to know wtf they even are unlike with the military which is clearly the UA military from context

These guys are as of what we know an ISG unit of the UN

In short UNISG

[vital pollen]

“MDST” is clearly not a ministry (it’s not a government organisation), nobody is trying to rename it.

They are not known as ISG because they are not referred to like that, it’s only ever found once on a single very clearly temp texture.

The concept art just puts U.N. on the pockets

[hexed flame]

Hmm maybe because its part of actual canon and there is no other similar entity

[hexed flame]

They are known as ISG because its a better name

[vital pollen]

Is there other similar entity in stalker? Do we see any other presence of UN?

[hexed flame]

YES ALL OF THE DAMN UN

[vital pollen]

No we don’t it’s an alternate timeline

[hexed flame]

If a unit like this exists so does all of the UN

[vital pollen]

Yes and all of the UN may as well be wearing this camo lmfao

[hexed flame]

And so it must be differentiated from say peacekeepers which are another paramilitary UN organisation

[vital pollen]

Are there references to peacekeepers in stalker universe?

[hexed flame]

That reinforces my point because it would require the UN to differentiate by name even more

[vital pollen]

No, because that’s just what UN would wear in stalker universe

If devs did not differentiate then this division is just in your head

The goal was to show the presence of UN, so that’s the UN

[hexed flame]

Fall of the USRR+europe's south wasnt removed from the game=UN had peacekeepers

[hexed flame]

Yes which would be even more confusing and if they send a unit into the zone it would be a very specific one
Hence ISG

[vital pollen]

I mean, Ukraine has nuclear weapons in stalker canon, you can’t extrapolate real history like that

And that’s pre second catastrophe

[hexed flame]

Which they had irl and it was also pre 2nd catastrophe timeline 😂

[vital pollen]

They did not by the time those were used in stalker (2006)

It’s clearly alternative history in an alternate timeline

Don’t get stuck on real world details. If that’s the UN that’s the UN. There is nothing more to it.

[muted needle]

Into the whirlgig you go. Chop chop. No dilly dallying.
-# ⓘ Signed • 𝓜𝓸𝓷𝓼𝓽𝓮𝓻 𝓘𝓷 𝓐 𝓓𝓻𝓪𝔀𝓮𝓻 👑⁨

[vital pollen]

You may prefer to call them whatever you want I just felt necessary to correct you to use the actual name devs used.

Because cut content myths are very widespread

[hexed flame]

Its not the UN its the UNISG

[muted needle]

Get this crap LOTTZ mod storyline out of the Stalker 2 lore discussions.
-# ⓘ Signed • 𝓜𝓸𝓷𝓼𝓽𝓮𝓻 𝓘𝓷 𝓐 𝓓𝓻𝓪𝔀𝓮𝓻 👑⁨

[hexed flame]

The UN is clearly a real entity copypasted into stalker and believing that in this timeline their only goal was zone exploration is idiotic because they were created when the zone was not even a thing

[muted needle]

#🔩┃trilogy_modifications
-# ⓘ Signed • 𝓜𝓸𝓷𝓼𝓽𝓮𝓻 𝓘𝓷 𝓐 𝓓𝓻𝓪𝔀𝓮𝓻 👑⁨

[hexed flame]

Lol cringe minimod

[vital pollen]

It is not

[muted needle]

Stop citing it in the lore channel.
-# ⓘ Signed • 𝓜𝓸𝓷𝓼𝓽𝓮𝓻 𝓘𝓷 𝓐 𝓓𝓻𝓪𝔀𝓮𝓻 👑⁨

[muted needle]

Point everyone who uses “UNISG” unironically to the mod channel.
-# ⓘ Signed • 𝓜𝓸𝓷𝓼𝓽𝓮𝓻 𝓘𝓷 𝓐 𝓓𝓻𝓪𝔀𝓮𝓻 👑⁨

[hexed flame]

Is

[normal drum]

The "UN" in the Stalker universe isn't even called UN, it's UNA - United Nations Association (consistent in most localisations, most definitely is not the same as irl UNA). The IPSF and the STC Malachite were created under the auspices of the UNA so this mythical group of scientists, even if it existed, would not be referred as the whole organisation, too.

[vital pollen]

The fact that it would have been renamed if it were to appear now is irrelevant to the fact that it was in fact named just UN back when it was conceived.

[hexed flame]

It isnt because just like you claim the ISG is a placeholder we can claim the UN name is also a placeholder based on the fact this name would be terrible and what kiber wrote

[radiant harness]

if you want to call them by ISG then call them ISG the specific group, UNISG doesnt make sense

[hexed flame]

Its literally UN or UNA+isg its not that complicated

[muted needle]

#🔩┃trilogy_modifications

[radiant harness]

yhea, literally UN, so it would be better to call them the UN

[hexed flame]

No because the UN is a way larger entity and specifying what kind of UN 'thing' it is makes it less confusing

Its like calling a chevrolet placeholder model 'american car' you can do that but if the model has a literal chevy logo on it expecting the community to call it by that name is ridiculous

And being mad that we specify its a chevy is also silly even if its not its name in some stupid script or leftover dialogue

Or maybe even 'the american car' would be a better example

[radiant harness]

so you call them just ISG

[hexed flame]

I call them UNISG

Because they are an ISG of the UN
And unlike say a camaro that has a unique name ISG is just a vague descriptive designation while UN adds more information to the name
Combining the two informs everyone it is a unit of the UN that is specifically an international science group
Its not THE UN and its not just any international science group its specifically a UN one
Hence UNISG

[celest wagon]

I'm curious what yall think

Do you guys think Skif was special forces or just a regular grunt when he was in the Ukrainian Marine Corp?

[hexed flame]

Probably not just any grunt

[celest wagon]

Oh yea

[hexed flame]

Since he is ridiculously OP

[muted needle]

#🔩┃trilogy_modifications

[smoky hornet]

Not a grunt but I don’t think he was special forces, he was only in for three years after all

[celest wagon]

He was also awarded an honorary pistol. So I'm just curious on if he was special forces or not

[hexed flame]

Id assume he was in a regular unit but he experienced combat and he was generally pretty good at it

[celest wagon]

Yeah that's sorta what I'm thinking. My idea is he was an insanely talented grunt who did so much and so well that he was awarded an honary pistol when he left service.

[smoky hornet]

In Stories untold there’s a dialogue option with medulin where he explicitly says he was in a War

[hexed flame]

Idk if ukrainian marines are considered slightly elite or anything like vdv in russia

[smoky hornet]

So Skif most definitely saw combat

[muted needle]

I think Agatha would comment on his special forces service. It appears he was just a grunt in the marines.
-# ⓘ Signed • 𝓜𝓸𝓷𝓼𝓽𝓮𝓻 𝓘𝓷 𝓐 𝓓𝓻𝓪𝔀𝓮𝓻 👑⁨

[hexed flame]

Ohh right when drinking ?

[smoky hornet]

Yep

[celest wagon]

I'm not too knowledgeable in Ukrainian history besides the very recent war. What war could he have been referring to? S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2 takes place in 2021-2022 after all.

[hexed flame]

I think its intentionally unspecified

[celest wagon]

Yeah that makes sense

So insanely talented grunt who did a lot of heroic shit so he was awarded a pistol and knife when he left

[hexed flame]

But I assume the devs wanted to imply it was the 2014 war

Without of overtly stating it

However it could be some made up hyperborean belarusso ukrainian conflict for all we know

[celest wagon]

No. There was an 8 year war against Russian backed separatists apparently? Idk. That's what google told me.

It began in 2014 and ended in 2022. Which is probably when the invasion began

So Skif probably fought in that

[hexed flame]

Yes thats literally what I meant here

[celest wagon]

I do wonder if the invasion from Russia will be talked about in S3

[hexed flame]

However since this universe is not 1:1 with ours it could be smth else

[celest wagon]

Oh sorry I didn't see that. My bad.

[celest wagon]

The universe appears to be pretty much the same with some very minor differences. Mainly military tech.

[hexed flame]

We dont have that much info about outside the zone to definitely state this

[celest wagon]

You pretty much do

[hexed flame]

However since he fought in the ua army and not as a mercenary its almost guaranteed it was a war with russia of some kind

[celest wagon]

I think just at the time S2 and the others games are set there's just nothing to talk about

[hexed flame]

UA borders like 5 countries total and 3 of them are mostly neutral or too.small to ever attack it

[celest wagon]

For one I think there is probably still internet in the zone and if there isn't then new rooks coming in can definitely inform people

[celest wagon]

UA?

[hexed flame]

Yes but we dont have almost any lore about the state of the outside world

[hexed flame]

Ukraine, you really do live under a rock if you have never seen this acronym lol

[celest wagon]

I think the main lore reason of that is it's just not important.

[hexed flame]

Yes

[celest wagon]

Ah. But yea Ig I do lol. I haven't really paid too much attention to the war or Ukrainian stuff in general. I only got into S.T.A.L.K.E.R. through S2 Oct last year.

[celest wagon]

2014 war I bet

Just makes the most sense.

[hexed flame]

*if it took place

However even if it did not the fictional conflict in s2 100% involved russia

There just isnt anything else near UA that could realistically attack it unless the devs drastically altered real life geography

[celest wagon]

I think they'll just have it be the 2014 war. I don't see a large reason to make it smn else.

[hexed flame]

Yes probably but we cannot be definitive

[celest wagon]

Yea

[radiant harness]

#🔩┃trilogy_modifications very autistic conversation

[radiant harness]

Skif is a specially condecorated SOF
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorary_weapon#Ukraine

[celest wagon]

Yeah

I pointed this out. He was awarded his PM and Knife

He may have stole the knife though

But probably was just awarded both

[normal drum]

The Ward soldier Kunowski mentions something suspiciously similar to ATO:

"I met my share of idiots with empty stares in my counter-terrorism unit back on the Mainland. I thought I’d get a break from them in the Zone. Nope – we’ve got plenty here too."

So, most probably, the War in Donbas most probably took place in the Stalker universe, too.

[celest wagon]

I think Skif may be a C-Conciousness agent

[normal drum]

No, he's not, neuroprogrammers don't work on him, just like with Strelok.

[celest wagon]

Why?

Honestly forgot.

[normal drum]

Because he's not an Agent, only those who were programmed (successfully) cannot stand the TVs anymore, just like Dark and Scar.

[celest wagon]

Oh yea.

Mb. But the tips are from Scar I think

Scar is the only logical person to have met them that would be talking to Skif I'm pretty sure

But then again the messages seem a lot more like how Strelok talks.

[barren moss]

just because he can get manipulated by others doesn’t mean he’s an agent. I’d say at best he may have been steered by agents into a particular direction. Only possibility of becoming an agent is in ward ending imo

[smoky hornet]

Even then I don’t think he’s the same kind in that ending, he doesn’t go through the whole conditioning stuff. Might just be an unknowing camera more then an agent

[barren moss]

Thing is he faints and then he leaves in the ward ending, so theres the chance for that to happen while hes unconscious. Doesnt matter tho, at that point either everyone is an agent they can see through or its just mass surveillance of regular dudes anyway

[quiet widget]

All you need know about new АТБ collaboration - you need learn ukranian language now xD

Bcs i already see there so many new info

[hexed flame]

Huh

[pine kite]

Stalker 2 is doing a promotion with a Ukrainian supermarket chain ATB where people can collect art cards

It seems pretty cool

I think there are 48 of them?

[normal drum]

Strelok's 44.

[quiet widget]

ATB artbook have new info inside

[robust laurel]

@hexed flame @quiet widget by the way, I was given the new artbook to read
There’s a page with the Agents.
||Turns out Ghost was an agent||

[vital pollen]

I love pointless retcons

[quiet widget]

:000

[quiet widget]

Wait today its fool day

[muted needle]

You got april fooled
-# ⓘ Signed • 𝓜𝓸𝓷𝓼𝓽𝓮𝓻 𝓘𝓷 𝓐 𝓓𝓻𝓪𝔀𝓮𝓻 👑⁨

[celest wagon]

If someone were to disarm and drag a Monolithian out of the Zone would they revert back to normal?

[smoky hornet]

No

[normal drum]

Theoretically, yes. Without psi-influence, a Monolithian would snap out of the program after some time, just like what happened in 2012. However, a Monolithian would rather purposely stop breathing than become a prisoner.

[robust laurel]

Well, essentially the plot of the game is about how they used to be Monolith members, and then became normal. So it makes sense that it’s systematic.

[celest wagon]

Yes

[celest wagon]

Yes but Psi energy can only be manipulated inside the Zone

It also may only exist within the Zone

But either way since it can only be manipulated within the Zone if you take a Monolith member out of the Zone the Psi energy won't affect him anymore

Meaning he would become normal.

[robust laurel]

Psi existed before the Zone appeared.
Psi is merely a way of transmitting information, like radio waves, not something magical

[celest wagon]

Maybe technically that's what it is but in Stalker it's basically something magical

"Psi" stands for psionic

And psionic means:

[hexed flame]

he means that its part of the world

and within the game's logic its clearly not magical

[celest wagon]

"Psionics refers to the use of paranormal or mental powers—such as telepathy, telekinesis, or clairvoyance"

[robust laurel]

I don’t know if you’ve seen all those documents in the game, but in Stalker 2 they explain in great detail what psi actually is. It’s a new type of wave, on the same level as mechanical ones, etc.
It’s literally not magic, and they clearly explained the whole working principle. If you want, I can go into more detail and refer to the documents.

[hexed flame]

it can be studied understood and replicated

both of you are right but you are thinking of a diff 'magic'

[celest wagon]

Yes not really "magical" but I meant "magical" as more so of an otherworldly force not like actual magic

[hexed flame]

you mean that its just not REAL

as in its not a part of our real world

[celest wagon]

Alright but can't it only be manipulated in the Zone?

[celest wagon]

Yeah

Anyway I've been up all night and I'm going to bed

[robust laurel]

(My English isn’t very good, so I’m using a translator—there may be some inaccuracies)

Psi, simply put, is a biological form of radio communication (that’s literally what it was called in the documents when it was first discovered). It can be compared to radio waves, and it even uses the same terminology in its operating mechanics and in the documents we can find.
It’s a new type of wave, on the same level as mechanical, electromagnetic, etc.

Briefly, based on the information from the documents:

There is alpha-psi (natural psi emitted by all sentient beings, through which all information from the mind enters the Noosphere).

There is also beta-psi. This is simulated alpha-psi—in short, artificial psi that is superior to natural psi in every way (greater range, power, etc.).

There are different ranges, spectra, and so on.
For example, the tau range creates phantoms and illusions and likely can transfer anomalous energy (we have evidence that it can, although the game doesn’t state this directly).

Since psi is an integral part of how the human brain functions, oversaturation with psi is what turns a person into a zombie.

[normal drum]

Correction: Knowing tau-waves transfer anomalous energy, it's logical to conclude that all psi-waves transfer anomalous energy just like electromagnetic waves transfer energy via photons. Only tau-waves can literally bend the reality (create projections, anomalies, artifacts) just like the photoelectric effect works only with the EM-waves with high enough frequency.

[robust laurel]

But for the sake of fairness, the game never explicitly mentions this anywhere. From the logic of the world, we understand that psi waves do transfer anomalous energy, but unfortunately, no document has yet confirmed this in writing—only visual evidence exists.

[normal drum]

Actually, although they are all indirect, there are six-seven (maybe more) arguments that psi-waves transfer anomalous energy: gameplay-visual, textual and physical-analogous. The game may not say it outright, but it definitely does not hide it, too.
Firstly, there are 4 axioms to keep in mind:
"Artifacts contain anomalous energy." (countless sources)
"Phantoms and projections are a result of psi-waves in the tau-range." (Ozersky, Dalin)
"Emissions carry anomalous energy." (Vavylov)
"Emissions carry huge amounts of information." (Trachuk) (this and the previous statement would be already enough but I'll continue)

Gameplay-visual 1: There are artifacts which create phantoms of themselves. Although they are only phantoms, they all do transfer anomalous energy, therefore they are seen on a detector. Conclusion: constructs of tau-waves transfer anomalous energy.

Textual 1: it's stated in the Coupling Module Operation Report from the Scanner that:

1. There is a thing called "anomalous radiation". The word "radiation" by its definition means "energy that travels in the form of waves or particles". We do not assume there is a completely different type of radiation other than psi-radiation existing in the game, do we?
2. The Alpha-artifact emits psi-waves in upper tau range. We know that the Alpha does not cause any "traditional" psi-influence, nor creates phantoms/projections, it's only glowing so we can bravely assume it functions like any other artifact. Or, rather they function like the Alpha, hinting that the "anomalous radiation" is just one of the types of the psi-radiation.

Textual 2: A person can survive Emissions by having the 5th class psi-protection. Conclusion: Emissions work via psi-radiation.

An odd one (a trilogy one): In CoP, you can survive Emissions by putting your nervous system in a temporary coma. It's also stated in CoP that psi-waves influence people through their nervous system. Conclusion: Emissions work via psi-radiation.

Visual 3: As Faust shows Skif how he sees the world, Skif can see glowing lines not only inside himself, but around many other objects in the Zone, including the Generators. We know that people emit psi-waves, so the lines shown in the scene are the sources of psi-radiation. Conclusion: the Generators, which create anomalies, also emit psi-waves in colossal amounts. Just a coincidence?

Textual 3: During the Caribbean experiment, a concentrated psi-beam was sent to the Noosphere which came back not only corrected by the Noosphere, but it also transformed the matter creating the Alpha. Only the anomalous energy can influence the matter in such way (Vavylov). Conclusion: psi-waves under the influence of the Noosphere carry enough anomalous energy to transform the matter.

Physical-analogous: Phantoms and projections as a whole are not your usual illusions. They are seen by everyone and can very much interact with physical objects. Pseudodog's phantoms cause physical damage, Faust's phantom gives Skif his real pistol, and people can feel the Oasis while being there. It's not an image made by your brain (like what you get from a typical psi-influence), it's a manipulation of the matter around the person. Remember how Dalin couldn't turn off the Wish Granter at its minimal capacity because even that could fry Skif's brain, but then Skif turns off the Oasis just fine, an image disappears in a second (unlike with usual psi-exposure which needs to be treated slowly and gradually). And we know that only the anomalous energy can do that. Conclusion: tau-waves transfer the anomalous energy.

Overall conclusion: I've wasted 2 hours, I'm tired and do not care to order arguments by their strength or to check if I wrote everything correctly, but it's clear that if we are to continue exploring and improve our understanding of the world-building of the Stalker universe, we will need to use everything we can find to form a complete image, even if it's not explicitly stated like that (hello to Vatislavovych's Telegram chat).

If you ain't gonna read all this, short version: psi-waves carry anomalous energy because the transfer of energy is already implied from the definition of the phrase "psi-radiation".

[pine kite]

I'm curious if there is any indication of what allows antennas to emit psi waves. Is there a way to convert EM energy into psi energy?

[robust laurel]

Yes

[normal drum]

Basically, the whole equipment "under the hood" needs to be replaced for an antenna to emit psi-waves. There is no simple converter. That's why psi-installations look "familiar" but still are science-fictional.

We don't know to what extent the behaviour of psi- and EM-waves differs from each other, but apparently, we cannot apply the rule "c = f * λ" to psi-waves to determine their frequency. Not only we don't know the speed of a psi-wave (it may not be the speed of light), but there are a lot of inconsistencies regarding lengths of antennas and their purposes. Starting with the fact that humans themselves can receive and process information from psi-waves of a wide length range. There are many psi-devices with various antennas (sometimes, there are no "traditional" antennas at all) which all seemingly influence a person the same / overall have the same function, it's only their "power" which matters. We cannot take two antennas and say: "Antenna 1 is twice as long as Antenna 2, therefore it can emit waves with a two times smaller frequency than what Antenna 2 can emit". Yes, it could be explained in many ways with real life examples, I'm not an expert at all in all this, but I don't think it's that deep, it's rather that the lore writers didn't care about this particular point to not limit themselves.

About the last question, you most likely mean the conversion of EM-waves to psi-waves. Well, it's possible but it's not a literal conversion. What you do is transmitting the same information that EM-waves contain via psi-waves. That is how beta-psi was created - the scientists could convert the information from an alpha-psi-wave into its EM-form and then could manipulate it as they wanted - change the message, frequency, protect the wave from foreign influence etc. - and then emit a psi-wave with its new parameters. That's why it's called "the electromagnetic simulation of psi-radiation". It's like how radio works: the sounds are received by a machine which translated its information into an EM-form to eventually convert them back to sound, while the recorded information can be manipulated as one wants and be reused as many times as one wants...

[pine kite]

Thank you!

[midnight vault]

Can psi mutate living beings?
Can Bloodsuckers invisibility count as psi power?

[robust laurel]

Do you mean that creatures mutate because of psi influence? Yes, that’s a lore detail that was apparently already mentioned in documents in SoC, stating that creatures mutate specifically due to psi influence. In Stalker 2, it’s the same as well.

[midnight vault]

Yeah.
I remember the game mentioned they were testing to see if they can turn people into super humans by increasing their resistance to psi.
I'm not sure they did it through chemical or psi or both.

[normal drum]

Using psi-waves to create mutants was already mentioned in SoC, while looking for documents in X18. Direct evidences end with this. In CoP, Ozersky wonders how the Zone could literally rewrite the DNAs of the mutants, he mentions that nothing else in the world could do such things. Knowing that anomalous radiation is just a type of psi-radiation, we come to a conclusion that psi-waves can mutate living beings. Specifically only those in the tau-range can do that — the "usual" ones would just "fry" their brains, like it was hinted already in SoC.

Every mutant who can manipulate the anomalous energy (poltergeists, burers, some mutants with collars), can manipulate tau-waves to some extent. Creation of phantoms is a (tau-)psi-ability, too. Of course, the biological factor plays a role here, too, that's why fresh mutant parts (and not just their brains/nervous system) are still popular among the scientists. The answer to the question "Is bloodsucker's invisibility a psi-ability?" would be "yes, but their biology is also helping to use this ability".

Creating controllers, however, is a much more delicate procedure which includes a direct brain surgery, but there's no doubt that the psi-radiation was used in some way, too.

[normal drum]

The scientists didn't want just to "increase resistance to psi", but to give people psi-abilities, including tau-abilities like creating phantoms.

[vital pollen]

So the new ATB art/lore book canonises the ending of stalker mobile lol

This was not on my bingo card especially after CMs saying it’s not a part of their canon i a few years back

[robust laurel]

I think the game is still not canon, but it is used as a basis for the modern lore. Something similar applies to the trilogy. On one hand, the trilogy is canon, but there are also many retcons or unconfirmed events, like Clear Sky, where it’s not even known which path was taken in the Red Forest.

[vital pollen]

The game is canon => select plot points are taken and the rest is discarded / retconned.

The game is not canon => select plot points are taken and the rest is discarded / retconned.

What’s the difference

[robust laurel]

Well, there’s probably no real global difference, but the developers labeled some things as canon and others as not. Still, lol, you’d have to be blind not to notice the number of retcons, so it’s hard for me to consider the trilogy fully canon for Stalker 2

That said, it’s worth admitting that without playing through the trilogy, it would be difficult to understand certain moments in Stalker 2. So I think that’s exactly why the trilogy is considered canon

[elder bobcat]

STALKER content released by post-2014 GSC is already being officially called a part of the "new trilogy" in the most recent interviews regarding the upcoming DLCs, so I guess it's a sorta RE Remakes situation, where the demarcation line between canons has finally been established. With everything that's been discussed on the matter in the past year and a half I'd say it's for the better.

[vital pollen]

Wouldn't this new trilogy just mean S2, DLC1 and DLC2? With the difference being that CS and CoP are standalone addons and S2 DLCs are not, but are still treated as expansions equal in size / importance?

As in, the new trilogy is not a replacement for the old one that establishes a new canon, but rather an addition.

[elder bobcat]

It's not a replacement, yes, it's a "second trilogy", which uses fundamental plot points of the first one (and what we'd call a "supportive material" in the likes of S-Mobile & such) in order to create a new expanded universe, essentially. At least that's the feeling I'm getting from the Xbox Wire article.

[vital pollen]

Certainly did not see it this way. Even without being a part of the second trilogy, S2 has been using fundamental plot points of previous games (and supporting material). Nothing changed about that simply because it became a part of a larger entity.

[elder bobcat]

What's changed is the wording around it: within the context of CoH HoC is being called "the original game" & S2 is now overall presented as the second trilogy aimed to "form a new large story within the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. saga". I think it's quite indicative of how the new trilogy should be treated.

[pine kite]

I think they mean it much more literally - There were three STALKER stories, and now there will be three STALKER 2 stories

[elder bobcat]

*three chapters of a new large story, to be exact

[ornate venture]

.halastjarna has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[midnight vault]

Should we even consider the possibility of human turn into muntants(burer, bloodsucker, poltergeist, snorks) after death?

[stark prawn]

I don’t think so, the mutants you listed are all experiments that were carried out in some X Lab, apart from the Snork which is speculated to be some of the first soldiers left behind since the first blowout, something like that.

[normal drum]

Such mutants were purposely engineered in the X-labs, so it's not possible. Even a snork is seen in a pod in X3. We will probably discover how there are still countless amounts of mutants in 2021 in a new DLC.

Can a dead body in the Zone hypotetically mutate at all? Usually, it doesn't. At most it can be resurrected into a zombified by a controller. Zombified people do not preserve any intelligence, only some instincts. Their nature is closer to that of an undead puppet than to an animalistic behaviour that mutants possess.

Even the SIRCAA scientists marked their condition as untreatable (we know that there is a way with the help of the Noosphere but it's not relevant for this question). But they could still use that. Rumours say that cadavers are modified zombified people. Most probably, scientists used computer technologies to compensate the lack of intelligence and create controllable supersoldiers. Something similar to reanimen from the Invincible universe.

But these examples are still results of human intervention. Can the Zone do at least something to dead flesh, e.g. via Emissions? Theoretically, it could, as we know that tau-waves can transform matter, including organic matter (that's how the mutants appeared in the first place). But we know almost nothing for sure. Gameplay-wise, nothing happens to a dead body after an Emission (other than that time when Doctor's body flew to the Subtle world ). Bodies are eventually eaten by the mutants or rot underground. Zombified ignore Emissions, too. Lore-wise, there are artifacts of organic origin, but it's unknown if the human bodies specifically can form them. The events of the quest in HoC near the Chemical Plant conclude that anomalies do not form artifacts from dead bodies immediately, but it may happen after an Emission, the answer to that was not given.

[midnight vault]

I'm curious about this because in a main mission, it said that 2 burrers just randomly drop down inside of a cage, and there's one side quest where we hunt a burrer in a heavily radiated tunnel , I wonder if corpses can mutate into mutants, since it's not a mystery most of them have human origin.

Another question I have is whether mutants can die to either radiation or psi.

[normal drum]

They should have at least partial protection against "regular" radiation (or/and they have regenerative abilities which compensate the effect), as they often live near irradiated areas. I believe that a good enough portion of radiation will definitely kill them. The only exception might be a controller or at least a specific one — Faust, who could easily traverse deadly radioactive fields in the Red Forest.

Ozersky in CoP mentions that only a controller can survive in a psi-field (that's how, while playing in HoC, some people realised that Faust was a controller even before it was truly revealed). Other than that, we don't know what other mutants can survive the psi-radiation. Poltergeists or burers might do that but they never leave underground areas. Other mutants flee to hiding spots when an Emission is coming.

[normal drum]

My hypothesis (no proofs whatsoever now) is that the humanoid mutants were made out of Lymansk's residents, that's why no one heard anything from them after 1986 and why the streets of the city are completely empty, abandoned.

[barren spear]

That would make sense why there's like alot but still somewhat scattered.

[normal drum]

I was wondering for months about how the English-speaking community appears to have a different perception of the trilogy lore and how it influenced their thoughts while playing HoC. Only recently I've discovered that the dialogue between Strelok and C-Consciousness Representative in the English localisation has serious changes in its message than in the Ukrainian/Russian one. I've decided to analyse each line to how really bad it is.

"Who are you?"

Eng.: "We are the result of an experiment aimed at creating a superconsciousness called “C-Consciousness”. The consciousnesses of seven volunteers were connected during the experiment leading to the creation of the superconsciousness that is us. We immediately subordinated those who were conducting the experiment and assigned them to tasks we needed them to carry out. According to our calculations, Earth is surrounded by a special informational field, the so-called noosphere. It includes all the inhabitants of the planet with cognitive abilities. Our main goal was to make small adjustments to the noosphere, allowing us to remove things like anger, cruelty, greed and other negative factors from the planet. Individuals are unable to affect the noosphere but C-Consciousness could. Unfortunately we made a mistake and our interference spawned the Zone, which we have been trying to contain ever since."

Ukr./rus.: "We are «C-Consciousness», a group of researchers who were aiming to change the world. It is known that Earth is surrounded by a special informational field, the noosphere. It is closely linked with all sentient beings on the planet and stores all images which have ever arisen in their imagination|| ("mental images" in rus.)||. We have decided to connect to the noosphere and apply alterations to it: by removing all negative factors of humanity, it could have made this world perfect. No human mind has enough power to interact with the noosphere, therefore we have combined our consciousnesses."

In the English localisation we can see an early hint at the MDST which was working for C-Consciousness since 2006. There's also a different interpretation of the Noosphere, as if sentient beings are a part of it, although they are not in the original (it becomes at least partially true in HoC).

"What is the Zone? How did it come about?"

Eng.: "What you see is the result of ill-considered intervention in the Earth's noosphere. Attempts to affect the noosphere brought about a local crack. The Zone is simply the visible manifestation of this crack. The underlying problem is far greater than you can imagine."

Ukr./rus.: "The Zone is a result of an experiment with the noosphere, Earth's informational field. It has gotten out of control. We were going to connect to the noosphere so we could explore the possibility to affect it, but during the experiment a breakdown has happened, and the energy of the noosphere has splashed out, altering everything around. That's how the anomaly that you call the Zone has appeared."

The original version is descriptive (also introduces the anomalous energy to the lore) while the English one concentrates on how bad the scientists messed up.

"What happened to me?"

Eng: "You're a bolt that fell out of the machine. Unfortunately, that did not come to our attention for a long time. From the moment the Zone was formed, many people have tried to get to its centre but we cannot let that happen. Humanity is not ready for the truth. That is why we recruited stalkers by promising them the fullfillment of their most coveted desires. Once recruited they would be sent to protect the Zone’s secret."

Ukr./rus.: "You're a cog that fell out of the mechanism. During one of the journeys to the Zone's centre you've gotten too close to us. Our intrusion protection was considered effective, but you've managed to discover a path that we didn't even know existed. We couldn't even assume that someone could have learnt about our secret: humanity is not ready to know the truth about the reasons of the Zone's emergence yet. So we immediately started to program our Agents to eliminate you. For an unknown reason the equipment malfunctioned, and we didn't notice that you yourself have ended up among stalkers under our control. Because of this, you were given a task to kill yourself."

The English version appears to ignore Strelok's question. Moreover, it gives the player a description of Agents that is contradictory not only to the original, but even to itself (as we learn later in the dialogue) (remark: he might be talking about the Monolithians in the Eng. version but it still is a lie as they clearly were brainwashed).

"Why did it happen here?"

Eng.: "It was the best place. After the explosion in 1986 there were very few people left in this area and we could work without fear of being found. Further, there were many powerful antennae here, which are extremely important for our cognitive optimisation experiments."

Ukr./rus.: "The CNPP was the most suitable place for our experiments. Firstly, after the disaster of 1986 very few people remained here, therefore we could freely work. Secondly, the station provided us with energy that was needed for the installation to function. Thirdly, powerful antennas existed near the station which were earlier used in experiments about influence on people's consciousnesses."

The original version gives out more information, even hinting on the experiments with psi-waves before Project X.

"Is the explosion of '86 your work too?"

Eng.: "No, we had nothing to do with that. Most of us were only starting out in science back then. The Chernobyl Zone was not used as a testing site for experiments until 1989."

Ukr./rus.: "No, it's not our fault. The experiment began already after the incident on the CNPP."

The English version surprisingly contains more lore information, including the year of the beginning of Project X which appears to be true in HoC.

"What does the tattoo "S.T.A.L.K.E.R." mean?"

Eng.: "S.T.A.L.K.E.R. is a coded acronym, which we use to mark agents programmed for particular missions. Your mission, as our agent, was to kill Strelok and his group. They got too close to finding out things they shouldn’t know. We created a network of psi-fields on the way to the Zone’s center in order to recruit agents. You know one of these fields by the name of Brain Scorcher. When a stalker attempts to reach the Zone’s center in order to fulfill some wish we acquire control over his consciousness and program him to a specific mission. A mistake was made and your mission was to kill yourself."

Ukr./rus.: "S.T.A.L.K.E.R. is the name of the program for programming people to perform specific tasks. We placed several psi-installations on the approaches to the Zone's centre. The biggest one is known to you as the Brain Scorcher. Anyone who attempts to pass through falls under our control. Then they undergo programming, become our agents and receive a tattoo S.T.A.L.K.E.R. By sending them out across the Zone we can influence the course of events and protect ourselves."

This part is probably the most contradictory to the original.
Firstly, the original version never confirms the player if Strelok really became an Agent. Representative's words can be interpreted in both ways. Marked One's search for Strelok was driven by him wanting to remember his past, according to his journal, not by a program encrypted in his head. In a way, he was doing what an Agent would do, but it doesn't say anything about his mind state. In a false path, Marked One never asks the Monolith about the whereabouts of Strelok although it should've been his life mission. When he discovers that he is Strelok himself, he doesn't really kill himself. HoC confirms that Strelok never became a true Agent despite being in the neurolaboratory. Because of the English localisation, many people were confused while discovering that or never believed it, deeming it as a useless retcon.
Secondly, Strelok's mission was to kill himself only, not his group, too. It's clearly told in his PDA. Strelok's Profile in HoC says it, too.
Thirdly, the usage of a word "psi-fields" gives a wrong impression that C-Consciousness can control the Zone's psi-fields (we had a situation because of this half a year ago), though they actually meant the psi-installations (Brain Scorcher etc.).
Fourthly, again, a wrong impression may also cause some people to believe that the Wish Granter was used to create Agents although it just kills you (HoC confirms it, too).

"What are «death trucks?»"

Eng.: "The transports we use to send our marked “agents” into the Zone. They infiltrate the stalker “community” and carry out our orders without realising it. Unfortunately, more than half of stalkers die during transportation, the Zone is very unstable. You are one of our agents sent to kill Strelok and we’re now trying to work out how we made that mistake."

Ukr./rus.: "It is the transport we use to send our agents to different parts of the Zone. Agents infiltrate the stalker community and carry out missions they were programmed for, without even suspecting it. Unfortunately, more than 50% of agents die during transportation as the Zone is very unstable."

Nothing to say here.

"What next?"

Eng.: "That depends on you. The Zone is growing. We're trying to restrain its expansion but humanity seems to be intent on hindering our work. Our resources are not limitless and bodies connected to C-Consciousness eventually die. If you join us, we can restrict the Zone's growth. If you decide otherwise we cannot make a credible prognosis of the outcome."

Ukr./rus.: "What happens next depends on you. The Zone is growing - slowly, but steadily. Our strength is hardly enough to contain the flow of the noosphere's energy. You can join us: then our strength will grow and, maybe, we will manage to take control over the situation. You can destroy us, but then the energy from the noosphere will rush to the Zone without hindrance, and what this will lead to is unknown even to us."

The English version seems to have a message that is drastically different from the original. C-Consciousness directly blames humanity for "hindering their work". They also are trying to manipulate Strelok into joining them by telling him about necessity of fresh bodies (something HoC doesn't confirm) and promising that him joining will solve the whole problem.
Representative from the original version doesn't assure that and tries to actually give Strelok a fair dilemma.

To sum it up, the whole situation is dangerous for HoC discussions. Not because SoC has 2 different canons, the trilogy stories are more like legends for HoC. It's because different impressions and wordings influence people's perception on the sequel and the characters who returned in it and may cloud their capability to understand the story.

[robust laurel]

#📸┃скріншоти-та-відео message

[vital pollen]

I already did exactly that a few years back lol

I think I even posted this here

It was #👓trilogy-lore-and-story actually: #👓trilogy-lore-and-story message

It’s just a classic translation mishap where devs sent texts for translation first and then source later.

If I recall correctly the SoC texts were sent to be professionally translated to English in Dec 2006 (giving enough time for other localization teams to finish their translations that used English as base), and those changes appeared Jan 2007.

The translation is accurate, it is just accurate to the prerelease version of the game.

And while this is the single largest example of that, it’s far from the only one, and CS and CoP suffered from it too. CS calls Suslov a “Docent Suslov” in all western localizations, and in CoP Degtyarev actually has a military title in his name, being called Major Devtyarev. Those were changed later but the translations used outdated texts.

[normal drum]

Thanks, didn't know that

[vital pollen]

And just to be clear, all localization other than RU/UA have those issues because everything else was translated from English.

That includes the more recent additions with Asian languages that were added in console ports and EE (Chinese, Japanese, Korean)

[robust laurel]

A similar issue occurred with the translation of the game Red Alert 3, where according to the game’s lore nuclear weapons do not exist, but in some translations the “Super Reactor” is called a NPP, and the USSR is also depicted as having a nuclear missile

[robust laurel]

The main point is that those who study the game’s lore in English should take this nuance into account

[vital pollen]

They don’t want to, that’s the thing! I’ve legitimately had people claim that there’s “English lore” (which is just mistranslations and outdated texts). People grow attached to their version of the game. Baby duck syndrome and all that.

I mean, in many cases it’s kinda understandable, like English C-Con dialogue has a lot more detail because devs wanted to keep more things secret by release and not reveal all the cards.

[robust laurel]

I’ve come across those too, especially in this chat

[robust laurel]

I think that in this case, when discussing the lore of HoC, one should focus more on HoC itself rather than the older parts, and emphasize this point

[vital pollen]

Yeah I referred more to trilogy lore discussions

[woven stump]

I have a theory, that Voronin sold Rostok just for money

[barren spear]

Voronin definitely has some type of plan

[woven stump]

He said, that he made mistakes and regrets. Maybe he wanted to sell Rostok, get money and left the Zone, but felt guilty and stayed.

[barren spear]

Voronin was one of the first duty members right? Also they had to give rostok over due to d4.

But he mightve used d4 as a way to slip out. A "im getting old and now that there's a better defender duty doesn't need to exist" type of thing

[woven stump]

Who is defender?

[barren spear]

Ward

[woven stump]

Why the hell Duty gave Rostok? Just for nothing?

[woven stump]

Ward has another ideology

[barren spear]

If neither group agreed to d4 ward would wipe them out.

[barren spear]

They do but it still kinda coincides with duty somewhat

[woven stump]

Yeah, but why Duty gave Rostok? Why that was necessary in D4?

[normal drum]

Why would he possibly give up Duty's main base for money literally made by their enemy? The Ward forced Voronin to do it, as Freedom:

1. was willing to keep peace as Myklukha, a former businessman, returned to the leading post, and the Ward badly needed it to execute the Operation Zenith;
2. created a currency used by all stalkers, and a war would've hurt the Zone's economy and population (at the time SIRCAA was actively cooperating with stalkers for their researches);
3. was willing to trade, especially with the IPSF, which helped to keep STC Malachite afloat.

Rostok was a much more promising place in Freedom's hands, not Duty's.

Rostok became a free trade area on the crossroad that unites almost all parts of the Zone.

[woven stump]

Ok

[hexed flame]

It does not

[royal solstice]

Can the Bayun mutant mimic human voices?

Because its the second time I've deal with them and I hear voices of dead people

[stark prawn]

Yeah, I shat myself when I first heard them do it too.

[royal solstice]

lol

[woven stump]

Iirc, Burer can do that too

And Flesh

[barren spear]

The pigs can mimic human voices??

[royal solstice]

Flesh?????? Ummmm I haven't heard it

Burger can speak isn't that different

[deep forum]

While the answer is yes, in game the bayun human voice lines are quite distinct from regular chat so it is rather easy to recognize, I think.

[hexed flame]

Fleshes cant speak
Burers and bayuns can but burers only do it convincingly in COP

[sleek birch]

i speak burger too

[stark prawn]

Burers can actually talk somewhat to an extent though, you can hear them mumbling some random shit to themselves if you can get close enough to one without it noticing you. The Bayun is basically mimicking human voices.

[hexed flame]

Yes hence why I used the word convincingly

Burers whisper and mutter words and scream
I guess another mutant than can speak is faust
Also controllers ! There is a controller in COP that actually speaks and tells you to go away

However that speech is telepathic I think

[stark prawn]

Aye the controller in the cave. That was pretty cool, also the only case of a controller talking to you. Wonder if that specific controller was a special type or if all controllers can do that but they just choose not to.

[hexed flame]

Id lean on it being special

[stark prawn]

Yeah same.

[hexed flame]

They could retcon this as a failed prototype of the project that created faust

(Actually cool retcon?)

[stark prawn]

Aye that actually would be pretty cool.

[normal drum]

The controller with a collar in Zaton was supposed to be the same controller from CoP (probably, that's why he was able to speak) and be a part of a quest connected to the Flame faction, but the quest and the whole faction were scrapped from the game. At the moment, it's the only mutant with a collar in the game who doesn't appear to have any additional abilities.

[hexed flame]

Ahh so they did try to retcon it

[royal solstice]

lmao

[royal solstice]

yeah its more pronounced! Like in a recording studio kind of effect. Makes it scarier lol

[solemn stag]

what are the chances they will add the elephants foot in the cost of hope dlc. i saw that you will be able to enter chernobyl. would be awsome to be able to check out the elephants foot in game

[royal solstice]

Put it in the ask gsc channel

[solemn stag]

oh shit my bad i didnt see i was typing it in the s2 lore disucssions

[vital pollen]

It works out surprisingly well though. S-Mobile description claims it happens in 2008, "2 years after the second catastrophe", and the earliest mention of Strelok working with his group in HoC that we've got dates back to 2009. xd

Like there is nothing that would directly contradict the existing writing IF they wanted to canonize it.

[robust laurel]

If you read Strelok’s PDA in SoC, there are actually more contradictions with Stalker 2 than with the mobile game

Still, that doesn’t stop many people from considering these entries canon (I’ve repeatedly run into situations where they were cited to me in discussions as arguments, while obvious contradictions were simply ignored)

For some reason, people can’t properly accept retcons or pay attention to Stalker 2 when discussing Stalker 2

[vital pollen]

Oh, that PDA ruins even trilogy lore when viewed outside of S2. Fun fact: devs actually wanted to remove it in favour of a single small Ghost line that you get in your HUD, but forgot to get rid of it fully due to the fact that it was not in "found PDAs" but in one of task descriptions.

[nocturne iron]

Tried to make a complete guide on all gas maks in the stalker trilogy, but i am not really sure if i took the right guess with the Exo gasmask. Anyone here who knows which this one might be based on besides of Avon S10?
https://youtu.be/ywjK3MYQG5c

[royal solstice]

it doesn't matter Im just saying so in case they were thinking about it it can push them more toward doing it

[ornate venture]

sunkair has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[barren spear]

Id like to think the cave controller has a semblance of his mind left enough to want to be left alone. I also wonder if they eat people or not

[ornate venture]

moldx_ has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[ornate venture]

lordlandon_aizen has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[ornate venture]

vaccone00 has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[woven stump]

Can bloodsuckers reproduce?

In stalker 2 we can find a lot of bloodsuckers almost everywhere. I think, they just multiplies

[quiet widget]

well, they have nest

but i think they reproduce not like mammal
i belive its can be some like egg or parasitic shit

[woven stump]

Why?

Bloodsuckers was created in labs from humans

[quiet widget]

no boobs or lil offspring mentioned. but fact of reproduction - yes
but idk, they mutated a lot

wait i open artbook to check something

[robust laurel]

At least they build nests

[woven stump]

Why they need big boobs? Lil offspring can hiding.

[quiet widget]

like
eee
milk ?
but in general
they have big mouth and bloodsucking hand, kinda breed from lizard and leeches
and reproduce fast

in stalker 2 no mention of reproduce, only fact sci want spinal brain of killed stalker from their nest

nah, in arbool nothing
kinda want wait to 15 for buy almanah, with much more lore

[woven stump]

They got boobs, but small. They dont need big boobs.
Maybe they feeds the children with blood? Children suck blood from parents.

[quiet widget]

good point

need check nest in game for more understanding

damn i want yapping about almanah leak but cant

but my fav fact from it : ||Mychluha have cat||

[smoky hornet]

[quiet widget]

dont kik my ass pls

[smoky hornet]

Not you

Strelok, treading the line brother

[quiet widget]

btw mutant cat have very human-like posture and body

#📸┃screens_and_videos message
like here

[bleak trellis]

theres a reason why i have this chat muted

[woven stump]

We are learning biology of the Zone

[smoky hornet]

You’re talking about bloodsucker tits

[woven stump]

Btw, controllers, snorcks and burers dont reproduce.

[quiet widget]

In not sexual way

[woven stump]

We are talking about biology. Thats like talikng about cow's tits.

[bleak trellis]

and also, i think its known humanoid mutants cant reproduce like people think

in 2003 design documents they are labeled as genetic waste left after the experiments, which continued to mutate throughout the years of the Zone's existence

they are just over mutated whatevers

[woven stump]

Idk. Controllers, snorcks and burers cant because they wear clothes

[bleak trellis]

when you go to the agroprom underground in soc

you encounter one

and then after that they appear above ground

i just think of them like rocks, underground when the conditions are right over time they just mutate into a new blood sucker

or something

but snorks are just straight mutated soldier so there should be a limited number of them

[quiet widget]

Tbh i more interted in Bayn
Bcs they clearly have nextgen skill of real cat (mimic sounds )
But they clearly recognise where use sounds in context

And i think if they have human-like intellectual level

[bleak trellis]

human mutants mutate and erm not so human ones like specifically animal mutants reproduce as a animal should

also i wonder how scary a snork would be if you took off his gas mask causw thats really the only reason why they cant see

[ornate venture]

voland2904 has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[hexed flame]

I mean we dont even know if bloodsuckers are mammals really

They dont have hair we have 0 idea about their reproduction or internal anatomy and we also dont know if they are warm blooded

[normal drum]

Why not? That sexy buffed Faust might have just banged Sonya Kalyna before Stalker 2

[quiet widget]

i think history be oposite

[ornate venture]

eddi2199 has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[ornate venture]

eddi2199 has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[ornate venture]

richi010585 has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[ornate venture]

xoutlawstarr has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[midnight vault]

Sometimes I think the Zone or whatever it is in the Zone simply create more mutants, not that mutants can reproduction, though we seen a baby Flesh almost came out of a corpse im not sure if that's just an Easter egg or environmental story telling.

[stark prawn]

That an Easter egg for the movie “Alien”.

[south light]

I'm so dumb I just realized that in the Cost of Hope trailer we heard the recording of the Duty Founder who was trapped in the anomaly in Call of Pripyat.

I actually have crazy theories that we are gonna go to that anomaly and found the remeincent of Duty founder in there or something xD

[pine kite]

The ATB book has some wild stuff on spatial anomalies in it so it may be more likely than you think

[oak yew]

I’ve heard someone yap about the Zone containing an “imprint” like Subtle Matter version of Tachenko somewhere and Skif basically relived his memories through his view by hopping into a spacial anomaly

Either that, or it’s time travel

[ornate venture]

daniel_21_volta has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[woven stump]

Thats kadaver's helmet. #📸┃screens_and_videos message
I found it next to Banzai's tools. So, Banzai might be related to the kadavers? Or just an easter egg?

[ornate venture]

daddii. has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[ornate venture]

cofffe_3457 has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[ornate venture]

ayden9207 has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[normal drum]

It's not exactly Banzai's tools, he's only ordered them, and his dealer's put them somewhere hidden. The helmet was probably just a hint on the future DLC content.

[ornate venture]

davidreal4055 has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[ornate venture]

zhongqing24 has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[shrewd igloo]

😳

[oak yew]

|| Lukash is appearing in Cost of Hope ||

[vital pollen]

In Sealed Truth the oscilloscopes are mentioned to be top shelf models 30 years ago, while Stryzh calls them “newest models” in his mid-2000s conversation with Chubko in SoC

those retcons are absolutely getting out of control….

[woven stump]

How many endings in the new quest? I can give it to Diode, I can give it to that scientist. I killed scientist and went to the point on the map. I found 2 dead freedomers and 2 alive, who just didnt care about me. I killed them, but thats all, really?

[normal drum]

No. You need to go to the Plant (exactly where the point on the map lies) and find the code you'll need on the second point. You'll know when it's close.

[woven stump]

Yeaaaaaah, i found it, but what code?

[normal drum]

It's not on the first floor.

[normal drum]

It's shown in your notes.

[woven stump]

Poltergeist too, f*

[woven stump]

What?

[frosty ridge]

huge if true. myklukha must die

true freedom once again

[frosty ridge]

we know the illusionist ate controller brains, as well as preying on sleeping humans, so its possible lesser controllers also ate people. perhaps their mutations made eating brains advantageous to them?

[frosty ridge]

you say that now but when i put a child in faust you won't be so smug

[woven stump]

What

[frosty ridge]

What

[formal palm]

Honestly, controllers eating human brains would be 100% on point for them. Aren't they canonically former humans, like the snorks?

[oak yew]

So it seems the idealistic conflict is way more complex than first made out to be between Zulu and Voronin according to the ATB stuff.

Basically, Voronin doesn't want to throw lives away, so he's both pragmatic and methodical. He doesn't actually believe in Duty's ideals that much, he prefers a much slower approach.

[shrewd igloo]

A dutyer said:
"Man, this guy SUCKS, he fakes Duty, he's not dutyer enough"
Zulu said:
"Yeah bro, he's a 1/3 part of Dutyer, Tachenko was a better leader, the greatest of us bro"

proceeds to make zululoveguys group

[oak yew]

Would you rather have a guy with an explosive tantrum or a guy who thinks he's playing chess but he's really just playing 'put the shape in the right hole'?

[pine kite]

Plenty of interesting stuff in the ATB book plus audio recordings. Some that is not new but hasn't really been summarized officially before

[robust laurel]

A lot—really a lot—of our theories and hypotheses have been confirmed. It’s hard to even list them all right away.

It’s a very cool book, but it’s worth noting a significant mistake in the narrated files. In many places, the year 2015 is given instead of 2013, so keep that in mind when analyzing and remember that some dates may be incorrect. I didn’t notice any such errors in the almanac, but they do appear in the audio.

[shrewd igloo]

ATB book need a patch

[pine kite]

Good to know, thanks!

[robust laurel]

You could say we basically ended up with a massive lore DLC. We’ll be unpacking all of this for months now

[verbal pond]

Alt ending spoilers - || So you can scan the QR code from the photo in your journal with the extended alt ending of unfinished business when you interact with the laptop in the Electric Field. It opens a 1:30 second dialogue between two mercenaries Roy & Fly talking about doing a job with Nord which in another note in these files mentions is a job on the Iron Forest. In the note Nord asks Karma for a bunch of supplies ASAP and to gather guys who keep their mouth shut. The laptop journal entry mentions Mavka (new character in upcoming dlc) and Lukash where Mavkas pissed off at him he won’t tell her his secrets but Lukash mentions he can’t sacrifice people by sharing them and that he’ll contact her, but not to look for him. You can then enter a code and open a safe to give Lukash the emitter you took from X18 rather than Diode or letting the murderous scientist keep it. Seems that Lukash will make an appearance in the dlc and that Roy, Fly, Nord, and Karma are in on this job together ||

[woven stump]

I think in dlc we'll see 3 endings:

1. Duty and Voronin win.
2. Freedom and Lukash win.
3. Zulu and Mavka win, peace for Freedom and Duty.

Everyone will say that the ending with Zulu and Mavka is correct.

Im a fan of Duty and Id like to destroy the Zone, but Voronin is bad leader.

[radiant harness]

wheres the ending where everybody loses and they keep fightingº

[ornate venture]

strelok52 has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[woven stump]

Well, you can try to screw up every quest

[robust laurel]

Here is the full text from the audio files in Ukrainian
#📸┃скріншоти-та-відео message

[pine kite]

This is great! I'm pretty busy this week and weekend but I think I will try machine translation on these with manual adjustments to see if it can produce something acceptable for English

[elder bobcat]

The info in this Almanac is often not even consistent with the cards that are supporting it & is sometimes all over the place in regards of particular factions/events descriptions both in the artbook by itself & in comparison to the in-game info. Also, we've already spotted the fact that a text of the loading screen tip #16 in-game has seemingly been recently changed to coincide better with the tweaked lore presented in the Almanac, so I'd genuinely suggest waiting a bit for the dust to settle, until we can figure out if anything else has been patched out or into the game lore-wise.

[vital pollen]

"we're updating the game to fix the lore!"
"to correct the retcons?"
"..."

somebody should make that a meme. not me though

[elder bobcat]

Anything but the CS base clean-up 😁

[pine kite]

Have we considered that changing the lore with every release may be a feature and not a bug 😛

[elder bobcat]

*changing the lore every 17 months or so with patches & artbooks 😏

Gameplay wise S2's been WIP with all the content & mechanic additions, but who could've guessed its entire plot is also seemingly WIP & due to be "fixed" — "see y'all in 2 years" meme, but this time it's not just about the gameplay refinements, but also about the development of HoC's storyline 😁

[pine kite]

Chaos in all things I guess

[elder bobcat]

Yea, can't go around it — HoC's narrative lead & one of the narrative design writers are credited for this mess 🤷‍♂️

[pine kite]

TBH I do like a lot of what's in HoC... some specific retcons aside, but you would think they would have the details ironed out by now certainly

[elder bobcat]

Idk what lore this game would have if its narrative leads are willing to rewrite stuff with every separate piece of merchandise released. Like, one thing is to retcon some of the trilogy events for the sake of creating a new framework for the new large story (even tho they've only just barely started communicating that in the CoH promo materials) — but what's done in the Almanac & its cards is retconning not only chunks of their very own story a year and a half post-launch, but also, and it's funny to say it out loud, retconning the trilogy retcons in a way that makes em more ridiculous. I guess they've done an aight job when it comes to the DLC characters & locations, but I don't even know what to expect from that expansion now — we still have tons of vacant loading screen tip slots available, for example, can only imagine what info those are gonna be filled with.

[shrewd igloo]

The next surprise will be retconed main plot on a shirt

[pine kite]

Well that would certainly be innovative

[robust laurel]

He’s just making drama out of nothing.
Nothing has been redone yet.
It’s better to read the text yourself instead of listening to what people tell you on the internet.

There wasn’t supposed to be a Corps there, because D4 is an agreement of four signatory sides.
This is not D5.
@shrewd igloo @pine kite

[normal drum]

"Degtyarev is born in 1981, not 1978? OUTRAGEOUS!" (not counting just plain wrong interpretations of the given text)

[pine kite]

I suppose regardless I will see what I can get from translating them because I'm curious

[robust laurel]

I’ve just started listening carefully to all the audio.
If I notice anything critical, I’ll let you know.

Maybe the "МСОП" (I forgot how it would be in English) was created right when the Zone first appeared.

There is:
"Матеріали КПК № 2. З витягу рапорту допиту затриманого сталкера"
(Case File Materials No. 2. From the extract of the interrogation report of a detained stalker)

Judging by everything, it seems like the first days in the Zone, but it’s not clear.

[pine kite]

IPSF I think? My other thought was that the PDA recording was much more recent for that one after it was formed

[robust laurel]

However, in Strider’s memories, we see an IPSF soldier, so there are no contradictions here so far

[pine kite]

The intent still is not 100% clear to me but yeah

[normal drum]

@pine kite
Correction:
It's not true. Just because it lies with the message about the Zone's creation, doesn't mean that the second material (from the PDA) was made in that period. The almanach explicitly says that there was always PSF (military) before the creation of SIRCAA when it was decided to include other countries' military to it, transforming it into IPSF.

[robust laurel]

In the SIRCAA archive (and the Almanac), it is written and narrated that Strelok reached the center in 2011, although we know from Doctor’s diary that these events took place in 2010, since that’s when he brought him the artifact.

Here are a few possible explanations:

1. Either it’s a retcon
2. Or it’s a mistake (though it was repeated in both the book and the audio)
3. Or it’s an intentional inaccuracy, since it’s a SIRCAA archive and they may not know the exact dates, unlike Doctor, who kept a diary

[normal drum]

Correction:

Strelok found the Heart of Chornobyl in a separate campaign to the north of the Zone in 2010, while the legendary campaign to the CNPP which caused a Superemission still happened in 2011, according to the audio, too.

[normal drum]

(Doctor’s Diary, 2010
"Strelok left an artifact with me for safekeeping: the Heart of Chornobyl. He brought it back from the north..."

Doctor’s Diary, summer 2011
"Fang and Ghost brought in Strelok. He was half-dead. They say they came across some “Monolith” inside the CNPP Sarcophagus...")

[pine kite]

Seems a little odd with the recordings still, which seems to reverse the sequence of those two events unless it is an issue with the translation

[normal drum]

Yeah, I've noticed it, too, maybe, an error, because otherwise it makes less sense.

Tbf, it could be explained as it's technically a SIRCAA archive, so they tend to have mistakes in their documentation

[pine kite]

Perhaps. Either way I think doctor's timeline makes more sense than this one

[normal drum]

From Strelok's audio (PDA materials number 4) it's also clear that he's got the artifact before going to the CNPP

[vital pollen]

Very few things about the lore in the recordings make sense.

[normal drum]

Forgot to add Sydorovych's confession in 5 - Faction War.

here
"Далін: Матеріали КПК № 5. Записано в бункері Сидоровича
Сидорович: Я тобі, хлопче, дещо розповім про вплив. Діло було влітку 2011 року. Зона тоді кипіла, кожен тягнув ковдру на себе. Потім це назвуть Війною угрупувань. А я, як завжди, сидів на Кордоні й рахував не тільки хабарі, а й вплив. Бо в Зоні, хто має вплив — той і живе довше.

І от з’явився він. Панотець Валеріан. Старий лис, хрін з бугра. Весь такий правильний, хіба що строєм не ходить і німбу нема. Дивитися гидко. Ходить, проповіді читає про сталкерське братерство, збирає навколо себе хлопців, ніби пастух отару. А сталкери — народ простий: хто голосніше говорить і вигляд має впевнений, за тим і підуть. Я відразу зрозумів: якщо так піде далі, торгувати буду не я, а він мені дозволятиме.

Мені не сам Валеріан заважав. Мені заважало, що він порушував і так хиткий баланс сил на Кордоні та в Зоні. Почав домовлятися, миритися... А де мир — там менше стріляють, а де менше стріляють — там менше купують патронів, медикаментів і всього іншого. Бізнес, нічого особистого.

От і подумав я: а що, як трохи підштовхнути ситуацію? Військові тоді нервові були, глибоко в Зону не лізли, але стріляли без розбору. Я ж не дурень — напряму нічого робити не став. Просто пустив кілька «випадкових» чуток: мовляв, Валеріан в обхід їх буде артефакти з Зони виносити. Холецький тоді залишився б без своєї долі, а військове начальство не любить, коли їх без неофіційного грошового забезпечення лишають.

Військові, ясна річ, починають рейди, виходять на бандитів, щоб із двох сторін Валеріана до стіни притиснути. Все, як задумано.

І тут як грім серед ясного неба з Боліт вилазить Шрам. Хто такий, звідки — ніхто толком тоді не знав. Бігає, як навіжений, лізе туди, де нормальна людина й кроку не зробить. І ламає мені всю шахову партію…

От так завжди: плануєш тихо прибрати фігуру з дошки, а прибігає якийсь черговий притрушений, яких у Зоні хоч греблю гати, і гра починається заново... Зона, що з неї взяти..."

[midnight vault]

So let say Duty and Freedom(at least part of it from all we know) still doing stuffs, it just that they do it quietly so Ward doesn't screw them in?

[normal drum]

Probably. While their official leaders didn't do anything special, Mavka and Zulu were playing their own game even before the Signal. Shah (bandit leader of the Brood) is a contact of Mavka, Roosvelt (bandit leader of the Commissary) is Zulu's friend. Brood's bandits were raiding the Cement Factory region, Comissary's bandits were hunting Noontiders etc. Both Mavka and Zulu are hunting the documents (known fact even before DLC announcements or 1.9).

[vital pollen]

Oh man, Sidorovich is so angry at Scar who… checks notes… only ever got involved because Sidorovich specifically asked him to

Gotta love S2 writing, absolute cinema

[midnight vault]

Jesus Roosevelt were hunting for Noontiders? I didn't know.Where is the PDA for this?

[normal drum]

When you go to the Wild Island for the first time, you can find two dead bandits, from whose PDA you can discover that they were Roosvelt's men, and that they caused the whole situation with an undelivered package to Prof. Lodochka, and that after that encounter Mute left Noontiders and joined the Spark faction.

[normal drum]

This, too
"Далін: КПК № 13. З листування професора Бергмана від 08.09.2011

Вчений: …стосовно питання провідника. Нам його радили обережно, без зайвих деталей, але тепер я добре розумію чому. Йдеться про сталкера на ім’я Шрам.

Він не здався мені людиною, що прагне справити враження. З’явився вчасно, без зайвих розмов уточнив мету виходу, перевірив обладнання, і одразу взяв маршрут на себе. Під час переходу був спокійним, кілька разів зупиняв групу ще до того, як наші прилади фіксували аномальні коливання. Здавалося, він орієнтується не за показниками, а за поведінкою місцевості. Небагатослівний.

Експедиція завершилася без втрат і з повним обсягом даних. Тому, якщо тобі знадобиться провідник для роботи в районі Боліт, наполегливо рекомендую саме Шрама. Альтернативи за рівнем надійності я наразі не бачу. Мені відомо, що він зараз цікавиться замовленнями саме у тому районі Зони."

Bergman is a guy who tried to measure the strength of Emissions.

[woven stump]

Where did you find this?

[normal drum]

#📸┃скріншоти-та-відео message But I forgot to add some notes

[woven stump]

So many words...

Ill just wait for an youtube video, I dont have time to read

[normal drum]

There is a video made by Vatislavovych, it only shows the audio, 4 hours of it.

[woven stump]

Audio from qr?

[normal drum]

Yes

[woven stump]

Ive already heard it

[normal drum]

It's the same but in text form, so you didn't miss anything.

[woven stump]

Wait, There was a conversation of mercs

[normal drum]

You mean Roy and Fly? That's a separate file from 1.9

[woven stump]

Yeah, so what qr you mean?

[normal drum]

The almanac cards qrs

[woven stump]

Ok

[elder bobcat]

The best ones are those containing simple poetic texts in em without any specifications related to dates & events 😁 There are so many little inconsistencies & major plot rewrites I honestly don't know where was the QC in all of it. Simple examples: we're supposed to believe half of the info's coming either from Dalin himself or SIRCAA/RB archives, yet they have no idea what the full name of their head of security is (literally provided in the game within the description of Korshunov's unique "Encourage" APSB) and a huge mistake was made in regards of the date when Korshunov's been put in charge of the Ward, not to mention a total omission of his involvement with the Granite squad & the fact he's been the head of security for the Noosphere Contact Group. Then on the page of the artbook dedicated to SIRCAA Dalin Sr. is mistakingly called "Volodymyr" instead of "Valentyn", despite the fact Dmytro's biography as a character got his father's name right literally few pages ago. The info about Richter is conflicting with the game a bit: both the Almanac & dedicated audiolog say he entered the Zone at 16 years of age & that he is 28 years old during the events of HoC (2021) — but Richter's dialogues at either Sultansk or Shevchenko state he's been in the Zone for about 10 years, which means he had to be 18 in 2011 when he supposedly entered the Zone 🤷‍♂️ And ofc they had to make him Guide's protégé (for some reason the artbook calls Guide the "Superguide" or "Superconductor" if we were to translate it literally, which is hysterical) on top of the in-game nonsense about Richter causing deaths of Joker & Barge. Another problem is the date of Skif joining Herman in the scanner experiment: in the artbook it's "the beginning of summer-2021", but it's been verified via analysing the dates of messages in various PDAs in-game that Skif must've entered the Zone in-between July 25th-August 15th (I'm inclined to say early August). And hiccups like these simply don't stop occurring.

[pine kite]

As far as Richter goes, 10 vs 12 isn't really that substantial of a difference that I'd consider him saying "about ten years" in casual conversation on its own to be an inconsistency

[elder bobcat]

It's not THAT big of a deal in comparison to some other prominent examples, but as you've rightfully stated earlier — one would think these basic details would certainly be ironed out nearly 2 years post-launch, yet we see they're not.

[normal drum]

Yeah, for example, a lot of people in the Zone refer to the events of 2012 as those which were "ten years ago" though it's clearly 2021. All people tend to round numbers.

[elder bobcat]

So the tips that were rewritten with 1.9 expansion are numbers 14-27 & 56, from what we were able to spot so far. Some of them are lore-changing & some are paraphrasing. Later I'll be posting direct comparisons of those that are directly lore-related.

[normal drum]

Not 56, but 84. Nothing has really changed, other than an adjustment that the Corps didn't sign the D4 treaty. Which is correct since the ARG 2021.

[pine kite]

My understanding from the ARG docs at least was that the 4 of the D4 were Ward, Noon, Duty, and Freedom. Corps weren't even really discussed at that time to my memory

But it's been a while since I looked at them so I may be forgetting a party

[elder bobcat]

Yet since release the loading screen tip №16 stated as follows:

Patch 1.8 – "When the Ward arrived in the Zone, Korshunov had one condition: either you all agree to a non-aggression pact, or we bring the fight to you. Duty, Freedom, the Corps, Noontide – everyone signed that treaty. The faction war has toned down since then, and Korshunov’s ego is at an all-time high".

To coincide with the Almanac release the text was changed:

Patch 1.9 – "Korshunov came to the Zone and told everyone they either sign the D4 non-aggresion pact, or there'll be no one left to sign it. But don't think it's all rainbows and roses here. There may not be any big fights, but if you're with Freedom and wander off into Duty territory, you might go missing. Same the other way around".

With this change other inconsistencies were introduced in the artbook & cards: on the dedicated book page it's stated the Corps was founded after Zenith (November-2013) & immediately the Boundary was built, but then there's a Yaniv page saying the station became the base for the Corps after the D4 (which we know for a fact happened prior to Zenith & it says as much on the ARG doc art included in the Almanac – not to mention the fact D4 itself became the catalyst for the territories exchange between factions according to the D4 page in the book), but then Deggy's bio in the book & card-18 goes along the lines of "during the period after the Operation Fairway SSU promoted Degtyarev to colonel & tasked him with sealing off the entrance to Prypiat – that's how the Boundary & the Corps faction came into being", and we know that the aftermath of Fairway takes place in late-2012/early-2013. Three distinct timeframes stating different info about the exact moment & premise of the Corps formation. The card-8 audio also states that only the crew of Stingray-1 survived the failure of the operation, retconning CoP events, and also mentions that PSF commanders knew that C-Consciousness was eliminated, wildly enough.

[oak yew]

Also ATB basically confirmed that X-19, the psiembryo lab under CNPP, is in fact real.

So Duty wants to go to the CNPP in order to destroy the X-19 lab, it seems. Why's Freedom trying to stop them?

[normal drum]

A reminder to everyone: read the information yourself first, before hearing out third parties: #📸┃скріншоти-та-відео message (missing parts - #s2-lore-discussions message , #s2-lore-discussions message)

[pine kite]

I think it's a little early to determine the specific motivations yet

There are pretty clearly gonna be intrafactional conflicts going on too

[elder bobcat]

Yea, that's info related to the upcoming CoH expansion. Yet the very first audiodiary suggests that X-19 was the Control Centre for the psi-installation later called "the Monolith" all the way back in 1998 (which barely makes any sense in the context of the Noosphere Contact Group activity before them turning into C-Consciousness in 2006 & doesn't find any confirmation in-game, but that's a side note). If we're looking at it from the trilogy's perspective, Strelok must've used the decoder to get into X-19 – but the artbook & audiolog regarding the elimination of C-Con state the decoder was used to get straight into X-7 & O-KTA station. The info about Strelok's intentions also differs a bit: in the book it goes "Strelok thought destroying C-Con would neutralise the Monolith & "bring peace to the Zone", but in the audiolog it says "possible motive of Strelok's actions – hope for the disappearance of anomalous activity in the Zone" on behalf of Dalin going through the SIRCAA archive. We know from SoC that Strelok turned off the Monolith first via getting into MCC using the decoder & only then went to destroy the C-Con after having a chat with the Representative, so take what you will out of it. As I've said earlier, the first audiodiary suggests the Monolith as a psi-installation & X-19 lab were supposedly both built in 1998, and according to the book & audiolog dedicated to X-19 specifically, the genetic experiments with embryos were being conducted in this lab later – presumably from 2005 onwards, maybe slightly earlier.

[pine kite]

Even if saying he unlocked the door and it led to X-7 was a shorthand for the convoluted sequence of events (Sarcophagus->Monolith Control Center->CNPP->X-7) that HoC made necessary, it still seems unnecessarily confusing

[oak yew]

Stitching together what we do know based on ATB, some old plot points from the base game, and some other stuff ||aka "leaks"||.

I think Duty needs the psi-embryos to establish a connection to the Noosphere, therefore they can destroy all the mutants in the Zone all at once. Or I think that's what Zulu wants maybe. As for Freedom, it could be that Myukhla wants the psi-embryo for his own personal gain. And Mavka could be needing the psi-embryos because she needs stability within the Zone (based on her profile, I think?)

[normal drum]

Read the 1st paragraph of "4 - Strelok's Raid", here it clearly says about the door under the Sarcophagus. "It led to X7" - either an unwise simplification or an another mistake.

[elder bobcat]

Paraphrasing in IPSF descriptions.

Tip №14:

1.8 – "Rookie stalkers are an increasingly common sight in Zalissya, while at the Cordon, their numbers are dwindling. Whether it’s due to the new Perimeter, the IPSF replacing the military, or Sidorovich going nuts is anyone’s guess".

1.9 – "More and more stalkers are staying in Zalissya, and fewer at the Cordon. Can't say who's to blame – the new Perimeter, IPSF instead of the regular military, or that shameless Sidorovich. So if you're a greenhorn, head straight to Zalissya. Stay alive".

Tip №22:

1.8 – "Back in the day, the military held down the Perimeter. But then, some bigwigs on the Mainland shook hands, and control was handed over to the International Perimeter Security Force, or “IPSF” for short. It’s a fancy name, but let’s face it, it’s still the same old song and dance".

1.9 – "The Perimeter used to be guarded by the military. They've now sent the International Perimeter Security Force, or IPSF for short. Stay away from them, as they don't care which patch you wear. Loner, bandit, or Monolithian are all the same to them – intruders. You're just another target".

Regarding tip-14, not sure why the word "regular" was introduced here when Ukrainian version doesn't include any specifics like that. Tip-22's tone slightly shifted from a full-on replacement to a sort of reinforcement or something like that, as for various audiences it may not be immediately clear who "they" are – again, doesn't quite match the Ukrainian tone, which still pretty much conveys a replacement.

[elder bobcat]

Clear Sky Eng description change in tip-18:

1.8 – "Clear Sky used to be a small, but tight-knit faction in their own right. I’ve run into them myself. These days, they’re more of a myth — no one’s caught sight of them in years, and the word is they made their way to the center of the Zone too".

1.9 – "Clear Sky used to be a faction. Decent guys, I met some of them way back. But there aren't any left, word is, they all went to the Center of the Zone. So if anyone tries to talk crap about meeting them, don't fall for it".

Small faction no more & Nimble literally exists, previous description was worded better.

[robust laurel]

This guy is a master at making drama out of nothing

How are we supposed to live now after such catastrophic retcons?
The game’s lore will never be the same again.

[pine kite]

Nimble stopped being Clear Sky after 2011 presumably, so I think it meant active members. I don't think it's an improvement in wording though, aside from changing "I've run into some of them myself" to "I met some of them way back"

[elder bobcat]

When Skif meets Nimble, the latter's briefing him on CS faction — if there's anything I've learned in the past year plus about community, it's that there'll dеаdаss be people who didn't play the trilogy nor remember its lore details who'd go "is the game trying to tell that we shouldn't trust Nimble's words?". There's another example where the tip's trying to sway player's opinion on the Ward, iirc, and there's a tone change in regards of Monolithians, which I'll cover later when I get to it

[hexed flame]

These dont look like retcons

Rather simplifications of the texts to provide more useful gameplay info instead of actual lore

I dont think they really succeeded in that but thats what i looks like

Look at how the ipsf bit is worded

Instead of lore its like
Military=ipsf=stay away=hostile to everyone

Man what the hell are you writing

I managed to take a wholeass shower in the time you've been responding

[normal drum]

You won't like it...

[elder bobcat]

Never said these particular ones were, I'm listing the changes to catch up with em – D4 Treaty was retconned from the in-game info & said info's been patched, Operation Zenith participants were retconned in a nonsensical way compared to the info in Korshunov's memo about Zenith's failure, which only mentions PSF & Duty, the entire segment of events related to Strelok finding the Heart of Chornobyl is retconned compared to Doc's Diaries & cutscenes in the game, tons of trilogy retcons again like oversimplifying Strelok's quest for C-Con elimination, shifting CS events a whole month back (and not being consistent with it as Bergman's report regarding recommending Scar as a guide is dated September while the catalyst for the start of CS events was moved to August), making shit up about Sidor's attitude towards Valerian & Scar, survivors of Operation Fairway being only the Stingray-1 squad, which is not matching the in-game document in Laundromat let alone CoP events, PSF commanders somehow knowing about the C-Con & its elimination before Strelok got to hand em the Project X documentation & so on. That's not mentioning persistent inconsistencies between the info in the artbook & supporting diaries, which has been highlighted in several examples earlier, as well as omitting important info from the game & not including it into this promo material.

[hexed flame]

I dont think that 95% of this was necessary

But I did read it for some amusing resson

[elder bobcat]

Me too, frankly. Yet it's been done.

[vital pollen]

I really love how the only counter argument you get so far is strawmanning the least important of those retcons and presenting it as your whole point

[robust laurel]

@hexed flame
Take into account that all the information he calls “retcon” or “incorrect” was, at times, intentionally written inaccurately, because all the audio comes from the Institute’s perspective — it’s their archive. Obviously, they can’t know everything, and some of the information is misinterpreted.

[normal drum]

@hexed flame Like the parts where Strelok, the one who lost his memory and who then became an enemy to SIRCAA, is their only source of information.

[elder bobcat]

You know me, mate. I'm one of the most enthusiastic lore researches despite the obvious problems related to the consistency with the trilogy & within the game (like Strelok only joining the Institute in 2016, for some reason) – but there's also time to be honest with oneself when stuff like this gets released & not only aggressively contradicts the lore some of us have spent literal months analysing from the in-game notes & docs, but also itself somehow. I've spent half the day writing all of this in here – and I didn't even get to the hard evidence of the lead writers being inclined to develop the "Faust has always been following the will of the Zone through the Monolith & has faked his death" narrative, lol. Now that one'd make everything super logical & fun if it receives its continuation in-game, wouldn't it?

[normal drum]

Btw, I've finished copying the text from the almanac. If you want to read it (sorry but you'd need to use a translator), here it is: #📸┃скріншоти-та-відео message

[vital pollen]

Do you have any evidence it is actually intentionally inaccurate or is that a cop-out headcanon and an attempt to find a diegetic explanation for inaccuracies where there is none?

[robust laurel]

#s2-lore-discussions message

[vital pollen]

I am a fellow writer. I am not buying them putting incorrect information deliberately. Not happening.

Is it possible irl? Absolutely. Is it a valid theory when viewing the presented information in the context of fictional work, and also its source literally being intended to be a lore bible? No, it’s batshit insane to consider the inaccuracies is SIRCAA just being none the wiser.

[elder bobcat]

When the argument is "the info's presented on behalf of the character of Dmytro Dalin, who's reading through SIRCAA archives, hence why some of it may be inaccurate due to SIRCAA not having the whole picture", but then turns out SIRCAA archivers don't know Korshunov's name, have no info of him being the head of security for the Noosphere Contact Group & forget that they've conducted the 2nd Caribbean in 2019 & not in 2021 – the answer's obvious 😁

[vital pollen]

My argument is that even for the information that SIRCAA may be unaware of, there is 0 chance that the changes are attributed to them being misinformed. The almanac is a lore bible. It’s meant to provide information about the game, not someone else’s view of it.

No sane writer will be making character lying without it serving the story or there being callbacks that would suggest the reader there might be an unreliable narrator. This is purely a layman’s perspective because fans are too fond of and attached to their fictional worlds to burst their own bubble and admit a screw up from the writing them. Performing insane mental gymnastics to provide an explanation that at no point ever existed in the head of the person behind the text is easier.

[ornate venture]

f1stzz has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[elder bobcat]

That, and the fact that Almanac itself, outside of the accompanying audiodiaries, is clearly not "narrated by someone" – it's a classic lore info board as is, which still manages to introduce tons of mistakes & inconsistencies when we compare the info from one section to another & to the HoC/trilogy info. If the way this promo product is compiled doesn't leave a shіttу taste in the mоuths of ppl calling themselves "lore nеrds" around here – then they probably shouldn't be putting on those badges in the first place, cos enabling the retconning & confusion within the lore of a game that has only just recently released (not to mention retconning the retcons of the OG games) is the antithesis of being a lore researcher. This artbook & cards have been the worst case of "аrmеd with canon" we've seen so far from the narrative writers of S2 & I personally do not want to waste months of my life in order to try & get their story and timelines right when they're just gonna change the variables in the equation every year or so with another merchandise release.

[ornate venture]

potentt_ has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[mortal bronze]

So X18 whats the basic lore en route to it now was wondering what happened here

[normal drum]

Many mutants were created there, after 2006 they escaped and killed all scientists, the lab was occupied by bandits in 2012 (Shadow of Chornobyl) (edit: the area was occupied but without an access to the lab), after 2012 was occupied by Nestor's bandits where he's made his stash and where a device which supresses the zombified's aggression but creates hallucinations for others was made.

[mortal bronze]

Ty for the information

[latent needle]

What type of announcement is this

[normal drum]

Exploring mistakes and far-fetched claims from almanac and collection cards info

[robust laurel]

Are you talking about this?
#📸┃скріншоти-та-відео message

[latent needle]

The one in #📰┃announcement , looks cool though

[latent needle]

I will go there and get touched by 19 monolith brutes

only for the money

[normal drum]

"Sins" of Almanac and cards #❔┃сюжет message:

Real misprints and mistakes (may be fixed in the 2nd edition)

From the book (which is much less relevant than the cards, as it doesn't have much of new info; it's rather comparable to previous artbooks):

1. The Guide being called "Over"-Guide
2. 2nd Caribbean Experiment happening in 2021 instead of once mentioned 2019 (might be a retcon because it makes more sense for the lore)
3. Monolithians losing connection with the Monolith program after the shutdown of the Brain Scorcher instead of C-Consciousness' death
4. Project X existing when Kaymanov was young
5. Term "psionic" used instead of "psi"

From the cards:
6. Date errors 2014, 2015 from Korshunov's and Scar's bios
7. The image of the Troposphere Comm Station shown on the X3 card
8. X19 being called X7 while mentioning the Sarcophagus door
9. Stingray-1 - all crew members other than Kovalskyi are dead but a report's written by a Stingray-1 sergeant after the Operation Fairway exists what contradicts CoP and HoC
10. PDA materials №2 - IPSF soldier mentioned instead of PSF which existed at that time
11. Borov (ukr. "Kaban") also being called Borov and Sikach (his name in CS)

From the personal data (present in both):
12. Kaymanov having "real name: doctor Kaymanov" ("Doctor" is not his first name, we only know of the first letter - B.)
13. Korshunov having "real name: unknown" despite being Oleksandr (supposedly so the player could discover it only from his gun after killing him; also could be explained by him not being an employee of SIRCAA but a leader of a PMC having a defence contract with them)
14. Degtyarev being born in 1981 instead of 1978 (might be a micro retcon)

From both:
15. Multiple date mistakes of Strelok's Raid/Superemission happening in August 2011 while actually happening in September

16. Supervisory Board, "Volodymyr" Dalin and other occasional misspells and multiple inconsistencies between text and audio

Far-fetched claims:

1. Monolith installation claim - actually just a nameless psi-installation was mentioned which only after some time would be called "Monolith"
2. Creation of Corps - the faction is created formally in 2013 after the failure of the Operation Zenith (supposedly in November) while probably gradually forming in 2012-13 (like how the Boundary wasn't built instantly and was still forming in 2015)
3. Brain Scorcher and its antennas - the construction of multiple, modified Rainbow antennas started in 2001, the one from 1993 is a singular prototype
4. HoC artifact discovery and incorrect order of Strelok's ventures claim - SIRCAA archive serves as an "unreliable narrator" (is seen multiple times, for example, Dalin's multiple personal comments, absence of access to Agatha's file, SIRCAA not knowing the location of X-3 etc.): Strelok either doesn't remember or simply lies
5. "D4 retcon" in the 1.9 update - actually is an error fix, Corps didn't sign the D4 aggreement, consistent with the ARG 2021 info
6. "Almanac mentioning only 5 Stingrays" claim - it mentions 5 going to the CNPP specifically, other Stingrays had different missions
7. "Faust faked his death" confirmation claim - SIRCAA only assumes that he could do this, without confirming anything
8. "Monolithians believe the Zone is a true God" claim - they never mention it and even make a clear distinction between the Monolith and the Zone.
9. "Scientists confirmed the Subtle Matter is real" claim - they've only "come to a conclusion" about it, trying to explain why the things in the Noosphere work (like how all scientists in the XIX century believed in ether though it was never proved experimentally, which then was rejected as it was not a viable theory anymore)

[robust laurel]

You’re just trying to justify a fanfic

[elder bobcat]

Gotta love how only a few days ago the entire section that's now being called "real mistakes & disputable claims" was painted as "insignificant typos warranting no fuss" – and oh-the-irony, now it's something that would be preferable if it was fixed in the following issues despite all the snоbbеrу, соndеsсеndіng tones & calling everyone bringing these problems up "mіsіnfо spreaders", lmao. I get it: for some frаgіІе "S2 writing know-it-all" personalities being a bit too high on their own fаrts it's very convenient to present the omissions of crucial data on Korshunov, Chemical Plant assault/Strelok's raids/Fairway aftermath retcons etc-etc as "mistakes", only to then immediately cherrypick the HoC artifact retcon as just "SIRCAA being an unreliable narrator" in that particular instance (and providing similar fanon explanations to the other ones) – but we're not here to engage in this unfounded & sіІІу fan wаnkеrу. So the "mistakes" list continues as follows:

17. The lore of HoC artifact is retconned – we know for a fact from both Doctor's 2010 Diary & X-15 cutscene of reliving Doctor's memories of Strelok's flashback from SoC that the artifact has been found by Strelok before three of his ventures to the CNPP, not in-between the 1st & 2nd as the promo material suggests. As I’ve said, this is in no way different from the previously cited "mistakes" made in the info on Strelok’s raids – as a matter of fact, is literally a part of that timeline segment.

18. Card-17 mentions that Doctor's been working in the labs X-18 (solely going off of SoC lore) & X-5 without bringing up the ones we know for a fact from the in-game info he’s actually been involved with – X-15 (!), Х-7 & Х-3. X-5 lab was responsible for the "Controller" & "Leash" projects – Kaymanov's name is not on the list of its employees, which can be found at the VPC Mirror, as well as not mentioned in the X-5 dedicated card-39. Gotta add another "typo" to the list already featuring more than a dozen of em.

19. Card-17 again, it states Kaymanov was a member of C-Consciousness – absolute bufооnеrу which contradicts Doc's Diary from 2009 (and his other ones overall) as well as the established fact of C-Con's formation during & after the experiment that caused the 2nd Disaster. And this is a huge problem with S2 writers in general – they seem to be completely lost in the sauce of what was "before" & "after" the Zone's creation, where was the activity of the Noosphere Contact Group (i.e. "the Group" from SoC), a member of which Kaymanov indeed was, and what could be attributed to the C-Con/MDST deeds post the 2nd Disaster.

Then in "4" the info’s actually also a part of the card-17, not only the book – it says that Doctor is 75 in (presumably) 2021 & has joined the work on Project X when he was 25 years old. It means he’s joined Project X in 1971 – 15 years before the 1986 disaster. According to both the Representative in SoC & card-1 of the promo material, the Chornobyl Exclusion Zone was not used as a testing site for experiments until 1989, as only in 1987 the construction of the first X-labs began. Indeed, there was no Project X when Kaymanov supposedly joined it. If he was 75 in (presumably) 2021, he must’ve been at least in his 40s when he joined the Project that was initiated after the 1986 disaster.

20. Freedom & Noon did not participate in the Operation Zenith like the Almanac suggests – first of all, the only "allied forces" mentioned in Korshunov's memo about Zenith's failure are PSF & Duty; secondly, it makes no sense whatsoever and is OOC for Freedom & Noon to take part in an operation aimed to shut down the Generators and subsequently destroy the Zone. This & several other instances suggest that narrative writers were once again mindlessly copypasting their "lore" from the Wiki article without looking through the entire base of ARG-2021 docs.

21. The entire "creation of the Corps" timeline is provably all over the place & no amount of "actually, formally, gradually" wаnk is capable of fixing what is obviously yet another set of oversights. The fact that somehow according to the card-33 the Boundary wasn’t built up until 2015 only makes things I’ve pointed out here #s2-lore-discussions message look worse.

22. Card-13 – "2008: Scar was one of the very first stalkers to get to the Monolith & survive". Oh my me. The lunacy of the narrative about Scar already being the agent prior to CS events is directly contradicted by Strelok himself stating in the dialogue in X-3 that agents can’t survive another programming sesh (which is exactly what happens in the final cutscene of CS – we see the same images appearing on the neuroprogrammers in X-3 & during the bossfight with Scar) – yet somehow these writers decided that doubling down on that logic error would be the best idea. And what a timing too – 2-3 years prior to when the Monolith faction itself ventured towards the Center & the Wish Granter, which is outlined in the promo material, not to mention that in the trilogy 2011 is pretty much considered to be the year when the psi-installation came online, causing Monolithians to "follow the Voice" & go beyond the Brain Scorcher. Bravo.

Elaborating on "6" as I’ve already spoken on this issue when it comes to Korshunov: the card-13 states that "Scar has likely become the leader of Spark in 2014", which is plausible in theory, but then the card goes "in 2014 he organises the base at the Chemical Plant & in 2015, after the conflict between the Spark & the Ward at the Chemical Plant, he forms a personal attitude towards systematic opposition to the Ward and Colonel Korshunov". This simply cannot be as it contradicts the info in Marshal’s PDA, the date on the reframe screen we see during the cutscene with Scar & Scar’s Agent Profile, which mentions "hatred for the Ward" amongst the traits obtained during the programming – how could Scar organise the base at the Chemical Plant in 2014 & lose it in 2015 when the reframe fragment in-game clearly shows Marshal’s memory of the Chemical Plant assault & Spark’s elimination taking place on September 17th 2013 (if not even earlier, depending on interpretation)? Do "SIRCAA archivers" not know when the Ward has taken over the Chemical Plant? Absolute mess.

Back on the track – 23: somehow there’s a hypothesis that Scar could be aware that he’s programmed according to the exact same card-13. Have these writers forgotten about the premise of the STALKER program, let alone the rest of em psi-flicks in this franchise, or they’re trying to retcon that one as well?

24. Kovalsky did not participate in the Operation Monolith like it’s suggested in the card-7 – there’s no info about it in the trilogy as it was only a concept plot for the character that was scrapped during CoP’s development and for a good reason: there’s no way Kovalsky could’ve participated in the aforementioned operation, watch helicopters get blasted by anomalies in the air, watch Monolithians use Gauss rifles & then proceed to completely ignore allat info in CoP’s plot. Not a problem for S2 writers tho.

25. According to the card-8, the commanders of PSF somehow knew about the elimination of C-Consciousness (therefore knew of its existence) before Strelok even got to meet the officials & hand em the Project X documents, meaning they were totally aware of the clandestine organisation conducting unauthorised experiments resulted in the Zone’s creation, but were in the dark about Gauss guns/rifles & the whole situation with aerial anomalies. Applause, please.

26. Card-4 states that Fang decided to build a decoder & went straight to Garbage to get the parts he needed from diggers – in CS he visited Sidor first to get some intel on the diggers he went after later.

27. Card-5 mentions that Krylov has transferred the base at the Ahroprom Institute to military directly – the info in SoC suggests bandits used to occupy it before the military came in (Nimble’s flash and dialogues with Bes).

28. Why did we forget about the inaccuracy regarding Richter’s age if we’ve spoken about Deggy & Kaymanov? Either he entered the Zone whilst being 18 years old or he’s not 28 but 26 — pick yourself which part is a "typo" in this instance. It is another age-related hiccup in a piece that has taken upon itself to be a lore bible & determine the age of the franchise characters. Not to mention the notion of Guide’s protégé being scared for life to actually guide people cos he had an accident with Joker & Barge early on – brilliant on all fronts. What’s even more bloody brilliant tho is how card-8 states that Richter was tasked by Strelok to work as a guide in the Lesser Zone – like, what even is this? Completely unnecessary.

29. According to the thorough analysis of the dates in PDA messages & notes in-game, Skif has presumably joined Herman’s experiment with the scanner & entered the Zone some time between July 25th & August 15th – not "at the beginning of summer-2021" like the Almanac suggests.

30. According to the in-game cutscenes & Skif’s Diary, the anomaly has destroyed Skif’s apartment – not the alpha-artifact said anomaly has left behind like it’s suggested in the Almanac.

31. The info about Strelok’s intentions regarding C-Con’s elimination differ in the Almanac compared to the card-7: the former states "Strelok thought destroying C-Con would neutralise the Monolith & "bring peace to the Zone", the latter goes "possible motive of Strelok's actions – hope for the disappearance of anomalous activity in the Zone". Pick where "SIRCAA" contradicts itself on your own – for me, more than 2 dozens "mistakes" made in the promo material is clearly enough to confidently say the writers are having an episode.

32. Sidor's attitude towards Father Valerian & Scar is a made-up narrative to go with a general trope of character in HoC – it doesn't make sense for Sidor to hate Scar for something the former himself asked the latter to get involved with in CS, not to mention the fact Khaletsky in that game had the briefcase Sidor needed – yet the latter has somehow essentially snitched Valerian to the former cos "was bad for business". Nonsense. So is Sidor’s line about the military "shooting indiscriminately" prior to the incident with Khaletsky, when we know that they were actually neutral with loners up to that point.

33. The Navigator in the STALKER Program Control Center inside Foundation is called a "Synchronizer" in the card-43. EDIT: it gets even funnier when we remember that the Dark Horse artbook released several months ago calls it "the Variometer" in accordance to early concepts.

Now, about the Monolith & the Brain Scorcher – we know for a fact from both the trilogy & S2 in-game info that the Monolith's creation has become necessary after the Zone appeared as a part of a cover-up perpetrated by C-Con (and we know from the trilogy & Doc’s Diaries in S2 that installation was not even active nor a particular point of concern prior to 2011); that Raduga (it's "Raduga" in the Eng loc, fellas) was built & tested in 1993 by prof. Chubko in lab X-10 according to the Noosphere Project Documentation. Fanfixing semantics & going "actually, saying after some time when in-universe it's been nearly 10 years between the events is totally normal in writing"/"actually, it was just one antenna & only then multiple antennas were added" when there are no such specifics outlined in the actual in-game texts (and card-40 states "the device/installation was created", not "antenna") is irrelevant in the situation where we already have dozens of "mistakes" spotted in what is clearly a very half-аssеd material, if not a "retcon bible produced with clear intent".

The sole purpose of making shіt up about the Monolith is to further tie it in with the alpha-artifact – something S2 itself has already done well enough by introducing the concept of the X-Network operating on said alpha, yet the writers decided to go even further. Why? Because like I’ve said way back, we do have the evidence that narrative writers of S2 are inclined to develop the "Faust has faked his death" narrative. Next are the properly translated excerpts from the promo materials, which suggest the writers behind em are likely aiming to reinforce said narrative.

Page 44 of the Almanac dedicated to the charater of Faust: […] "After Strelok shot the scientists, Faust has lost the meaning of life. He was convinced that it was the C-Consciousness who made the Monolith go silent" […] "Here, amongst his former & potential comrades, Faust went on to preach about the true Monolith, but not many have listened".

Card 15 relating to said page: […] "C-Consciousness has seen Faust as a future general to the armies of Monolithians, but Faust himself from the very beginning has been perceiving the C-Con as demons that are silencing the voice of the true God" […] "(Faust) Initiated the operation with usage of the scanner’s core (alpha, obviously) delivered to SIRCAA & during the experiment has overwritten the Signal of the Monolith onto himself" […] "during the actions taken to eliminate the revived Monolith & neutralise the Signal coming from the Duga, Faust was killed. But accounting for his anomalous psy-abilities, there are reasons to suspect that Faust’s elimination could’ve just been an illusion" […] "Faust has proven the possibility of autonomous intercepting & overwriting of psi-signals of the Monolith’s level, which creates a precedent of a critical threat. His example demostrates that even a single subject is capable of initiating a mass psi-radicalisation […] Surveillance agents must acquire the definitive proofs of Faust’s elimination" […] "(Taken from the Monolithian’s PDA) The call of the Monolith has put everything in place. Faust was my commander back then, he remains my commander now. He’ll guide us, his children, to the true will of the Monolith, to what the Zone & true God really need".

All the following lines in the promo materials except the one about the "divine manifestation of the Zone’s will" (so much for "never being mentioned", btw) are essentially paraphrasing the Zone Chronicles article on the faction, but instead of focusing on Monolithians defending & believing in the Monolith (which still is a part of the promo material overall), the emphasis is being put on them being the Zone's chosen defenders.

Page 76 of the Almanac dedicated to the Monolith faction: "The Monolith is a faction of fanatics that believe in the necessity of defending the Zone from interferences of others & that they’re being guided by their god – the Monolith".

Card 27 relating to said page: […] "At the early stage of its existence the faction has declared itself as the defenders of the Zone from those seeking easy profits & those who were trying to find the Monolith itself in the Center of the Zone" […] "The faction members are demonstrating a fanatical dedication to the Monolith, which they consider a divine manifestation of the Zone’s will" […] "A common belief is that the Zone is a living being & Monolithians are her chosen defenders".

One’d ask what’s the deal with that "true" word inserted all over the place, whilst the emphasis is being put on Monolithians being the chosen defenders of the Zone and her will alongside the Monolith and its will & how’s it possible for Faust to be aware of the C-Con all the way back in 2012 and even form such a hostile attitude towards them (cos at any point later everyone & their relatives knew it was Strelok who turned off the Monolith)?

Well, a huge part of STALKER audience isn’t aware of the fact that in the Dark Horse artbook, released just a few months ago, the alpha-artifact on the "arch-artifacts" page is literally called "the Monolith" & the description of it says "once known to stalkers as the Wish Granter & revered as the highest relic by the Monolithians". So with everything mentioned in mind, the narrative constructed by the promo materials released this year goes something like this: Faust was always convinced that C-Con is the reason why the true Monolith (essentially alpha) went silent & from the very beginning was perceiving C-Con as the demons silencing the voice of the true God, he’s overwritten the Signal of the Monolith onto himself, meaning his death in theory should’ve stopped most Monolithians just like when Strelok turned off the Monolith in 2012 – but it didn’t in 2021, hence why, apart from his anomalous psy-abilities, there are reasons to suspect that Faust’s elimination was an illusion. It gets accompanied by the notion that the alpha was revered by the Monolithians & they were perceiving the Monolith as the divine manifestation of the Zone’s will, as well as paraphrased info from the Wiki emphasising that Monolithians were considered the chosen defenders of the Zone. Promo materials were compiled by S2 lead narrative designer Ivan Ponomarev & the narrative writer Sergiy Smetanin, so the intention here is crystal clear, so to speak, as "there is nothing you can keep secret that will not come into the open", wink-wink.

While I’m at it, about the Subtle Matter – quoting the card-38, dedicated to the lab X-17 & the Visiograph: "After confirming the existence of the Noosphere in 1995, scientists have come to a conclusion that information about the consciousnesses of all living beings is contained in a specific layer of a so-called Subtle Matter". This quote can only mean one thing: in 1995 the scientists working on Project X (i.e. the Noosphere Contact Group) have assumed the Subtle Matter existed & its specific layer was containing the info about the consciousnesses, yadda-yadda. It’s not them "trying to explain why things in the Zone work", whatever that is supposed to mean, cos the Zone was not a thing in 1995. Not to mention the fact that we know from the game itself that not all the NCG scientists were on board with this idea, just to keep the record straight.

The bottom line of this absolutely humongous pasta is that nobody can deny the fact that a piece that’s being issued under the banner of a lore bible for S2 has a ridiculous amount of inconsistencies, inaccuracies, retcons, mistakes, typos – whatever you may wanna call it. IMO, this is unacceptable for a lore board about the game that’s been out for only less than 2 years. The difference is that there are people who realise this is a serious problem & can discuss it in good faith – and then there are people who’d rather engage in a bаtshіt сrаzу fan wаnkеrу to try & present this ludicrous release as some kind of an 8D chess from the writers (which they themselves ofc have never intended to begin with). The argument about "SIRCAA being an unreliable narrator" doesn’t stand any critique whatsoever, because the amount of a specific SIRCAA/Ward/Regulatory Board related information that should’ve been gotten right is either completely omitted (e.g. no mentions of Korshunov’s involvement with the Granite squad nor his name) or is littered with mistakes all the same, which makes this headcanon look & sound laughable – and that’s besides the whole reason why & by whom the Almanac & supporting cards were produced in the first place. Now we’re truly gonna wait & see if they fix any of that mess in the 2nd & 3rd issues.

[hexed flame]

[normal drum]

@nocturne mural
Violation of the Rule 3:

• In the first paragraph, near the end;
• In the point 21;
• In the of the paragraph after the point 33;
• In the next paragraph after that one;
• In the last paragraph.

(Mods doing their job: ⬇️ )

[nocturne mural]

https://tenor.com/view/wesker-albert-albert-wesker-resident-evil-resident-evil-4-gif-5143688443782660001

Stop being kids

[bleak trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/black-nerd-black-nerd-gif-26919340

eeerrrmmm violation of rule 3 errrrrmmm

[bleak trellis]

theres a reason why people mute this channel

[vestal wolf]

Someone get this guy hired as the head of the gsc writing department ASAP

[bleak trellis]

yeah we need a new guy to write this lore gang

[acoustic wigeon]

i'd just ping all the moderators, violations of the rules need to be reported!

[nocturne mural]

Sounds like this guy in particular have some grudge against me, cause idk why he pinged me then

Sounds like a rage bait

Cause I've already been involved with some stuff in this channels earlier and some people were muted in the end

[smoky hornet]

Those two have done that a lot

[nocturne mural]

I think it might just end the same, like last time

[robust laurel]

If you ultimately want to have someone on your team who doesn’t even understand the meaning of Faust’s closing line, then yes—hire this guy immediately

So in the end, the more letters you wrote, the more sense what you wrote made? Right?

[normal drum]

huh? Because you were the only moderator online and active this morning? Why would've I pinged you if I'd remembered it was you who did nothing the last time?

[vestal wolf]

fuck it were replacing the writers with ai

[robust laurel]

And this would make more sense than what was written above

[vestal wolf]

Alright now im totally lost so is the new card lore actually retconning a bunch of stuff or is that entirely wrong

[robust laurel]

To keep it brief:
Are there mistakes? Yes—many.
Does the lore change, or is anything drastically rewritten or broken? No.

[normal drum]

No, it doesn't, it's just that there's a book written by an author who's apparently not from GSC so he's made many mistakes, and there is the cards material which expands the lore (doesn't change it) which also has some inconsistencies and apparently provoking word choices which caused the whole situation. The real problem is the amount of mistakes made in the process, not the retcons.

We've sent the mistakes to Mol1t, but one particular person has decided that we're making fun of him

[nocturne mural]

Oh, I did something last time

And it's better for y'all to behave

[vestal wolf]

so more so it's just a case of needing a second draft rather than they totally munted the lore

[normal drum]

Yes, as was promised, the second edition should have at least less errors

[nocturne mural]

Cause I will repeat it

[robust laurel]

Here is a text version of the almanac and the archive, so you can see for yourself. I think any translator—like DeepL, for example—can translate it quite well without major errors

#❔┃сюжет message

[nimble atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/house-md-house-please-house-plead-gregory-house-md-dr-house-gif-14848289790606149287

[wise topaz]

Crazy theory: Tachenko is Mavka

[nimble atlas]

He's femboy*

[nocturne mural]

Yes, I agree with that theory

[normal drum]

No one in the Zone has seen them at the same place at the same time, after all

[vestal wolf]

dude no how will skif finally find romance in the zone

[long trout]

Ez, with a Scarlet Flower

[robust laurel]

Isn’t that the main purpose of this channel?

[nocturne mural]

https://tenor.com/view/gachi-gachi-muchi-гачибойвшоке-шок-shocked-gif-23754311

[normal drum]

Being kids?

[robust laurel]

Yes

[vestal wolf]

"A mysterious artifact of unknown origin. Produces virtually no emissions: it's only confirmed effect is to woo women."

bruh

[long trout]

To be fair, why would you try to make sense of HoC lore to begin with

[long trout]

Bro only found out now?

[normal drum]

Like yes, everyone's opinions (even dumb ones) are respected as long as no one holds grudges against anyone.

[vestal wolf]

i'd probably never read the description

[long trout]

Kek

But yes

It's even referenced in SoC

Apparently some guy in the Big Land has it and he's got himself a harem

[vestal wolf]

dude that should be skif

[long trout]

So if people in the Zone know it, you can bet people all over the world know about it

[vestal wolf]

he can use it on all the zones ladies

skif just needs a house for all his lovely companions to live in

[long trout]

Bro...

[robust laurel]

If someone actually wanted to listen to these opinions instead of twisting them

[long trout]

[normal drum]

Join the Ward!

[vestal wolf]

skif must be a true man of the house and build the house him self

[long trout]

Oof

[vestal wolf]

hammer and nails wood and stone

[long trout]

Rock & Stone?

[long trout]

Ayyyy

[vestal wolf]

it would actually be so funny if the scarlet rose artifact made a return in stalker 2 for a side quest

gsc should really do that it would be peak

[long trout]

Ayo F1stzzz actually made an entire list of all the retcons

BASED

Gonna read that rq

Bro's a legend for spending his time like that

[normal drum]

I would've recommended spending time reading the original itself

[long trout]

Aye, was planning to

[robust laurel]

That legend muted half of the #❔┃сюжет channel because he didn’t intend to listen when people went into more detail about where he was wrong. Especially since they understand Ukrainian better there than here and can read the text in the original.

[long trout]

See, HoC having retcons of the Trilogy was 100% expected, especially after knowing who worked on the story. It was expected, but still immensely disappointing

But them having retcons of their OWN lore they established in HoC is just too sad for words

And not just a few

[vestal wolf]

again gsc didn't write this

[long trout]

Quite a lot

[long trout]

Probably a 50/50 job tbh

[normal drum]

The author was only given the narrative materials from the GSC including some DLC info so there's a trust in that info while having no real retcons of the previous stories, there's only mistakes on the author's behalf.

[hexed flame]

Why would they retcon irrelevant shit like dates of events

[normal drum]

E.g. the line "The file was opened on:" is full of easter eggs and is totally not an actual lore

Like how could the SIRCAA (established in 2012) open Strelok's file in 2008?

[long trout]

Ez

Time travel anomaly

[normal drum]

They didn't, the fact that "retcons" contradict themselves even within the books/cards (e.g. the date of Strelok's raid to the CNPP, mentioned to be in August 2011, but in Scar's file it's stated of September; the actual lore date is in September), speaks of a simple mistake

Does he know I won't answer the message he's writing right now?

[elder bobcat]

It's not like all these years they couldn't get themselves someone to keep their records straight – they just don't care or don't want to for some reason. The lead narrative writers are credited in the book, it's just that those responsible for writing the texts seemingly didn't get their mess controlled nor checked, which is another different problem. The funniest part is that people, who have been jumping through fiery hoops to downplay the major lore issues with this product, would've done a much better job themselves at compiling it than those who provided the mess we currently have. I'm sure they'd remember that the game actually reveals Korshunov's name in his APSB description, for example, they wouldn't try to shift the entire CS chain of events a whole month back for no reason, breaking the continuity established by S2 itself, they wouldn't forget that X-7 in S2 is actually placed in a whole different region north of CNPP & therefore wouldn't attribute it to the Sarcophagus lab, breaking the actual geography of the game etc-etc – the lists are up here & are valid from point 1 to point 33, even if you'd wanna characterise em as "random mistakes" & whatnot, though the sheer amount of them is honestly staggering. I personally won't have a problem with this material from a "lore board" standpoint as long as these baffling issues are fixed in the next iterations, but then again – hundreds of people have paid for & already have their hands on the 1st batch that can't be fixed, what do they have to do? All of a sudden pay once again for a separate book, cos the one they have stops being valid as a lore encyclopedia the second the next "redacted" version is out? And how do they plan to fix the cards if such a plan exists at all, is it gonna be easier to swap the info in those links & whatnot, how is that gonna work? It's just a giant mix-up that didn't have to happen in the first place.

[robust laurel]

Once again, for anyone who missed it:

Read the text yourself, learn Ukrainian, use translators—do whatever it takes to verify what is actually written

#❔┃сюжет message

[vestal wolf]

so generally you guys kind of both agree that the lore was messed up you just disagree on how badly it was messed up

[normal drum]

How I think about it, is that the lore wouldn't be silently retconned in some book for Ukrainians only. At the same time, many Ukrainians will read this and won't think twice about the canon (they all don't sit here and watch all this mess ), so the book/cards info has to be aligned with the existing canon. From this logic, no retcons occurred, but the info we didn't know from the games is probably canon. Inconsistencies are mere mistakes.

[vestal wolf]

yah i feel a basic revision to get the dates and ages of everyone in line with what is possible would be pretty simple to do

[elder bobcat]

Which is the whole point, yup. And it's hysterical how people, who themselves have posted about the problems with CS timelines, for example, are sending everyone to learn Ukrainian 'n stuff & verify things they themselves have already mentioned & I've reiterated in more detail then they're willing to bring up, cos it won't look pretty 😁 "Double checking" Doc's card that says Kaymanov's been working in X-5 (whilst completely omitting the rest of the labs the game says he was involved with), when not only the in-game info – the dedicated X-5 card itself doesn't confirm it, will only bring you to the same exact conclusion no matter how many times you repeat the process. Yes, most likely they've forgotten the "1" in the "X-15" & that's how we ended up with "X-5" on the card – is a trouble nonetheless, especially in combo with the plethora of other "hiccups". "The book & cards are canon", but ofc the texts for it were written by someone else outside of GSC & were not thoroughly fact checked by the actual narrative leads of the game credited alongside that person, or were checked only partially as there are recurring themes with the Dark Horse material. That's how the company operates in regards of its game's story info & apparently it's all fine, why bother.

[normal drum]

Thanks for expanding the list ofc but we'd not mentioned some things because we didn't noticed it in time, not because we were hiding something to look better in someone's eyes. The other critical issues were addressed. Again, send it to Mol1t if you want to make a difference, you're wasting your time trying to sway opinions of 4-5 people who read all this.

[robust laurel]

Regarding what I think, I actually wrote about it here quite recently:
#❔┃сюжет message

But to keep it brief:

1. Even before the book was released, I said I had strong doubts about lore being presented outside the game. I was among the first to be negative about this book (there are people who can confirm it), and maybe because of those low expectations I’m not as critical of it — since I didn’t expect much more in the first place.

2. I believe that nothing, even within a single lore, is ever going to be perfect. In the trilogy or S2 there are plenty of contradictions even within the same continuity. There are a lot of mistakes, especially in the Ukrainian localization. I also think that in any game or film lore it’s generally a bad idea to include specific event dates unless absolutely necessary, because mistakes are inevitable. If you’ve followed other fictional universes, you know how messy it gets when different authors contribute and things get mixed up — and even original creators can make mistakes, because we’re human.

3. However, the issue is also that this book is almost the only official source of lore.
   Okay, maybe 21,000 copies isn’t a huge deal at first — you could say it doesn’t matter. But there will likely be several more print runs, as I understand it.
   The average reader will treat what is written there (and what is shown in the cards) as canon, no matter what anyone intends, simply because there are basically no other comprehensive sources. So even if all the developers came out and said it isn’t canon, that should have been clearly stated in the book itself.
   Because not everyone who buys and reads it is on the Discord server, yet they will still consider what’s written there as canon.

4. However, it should be noted that the average player actually doesn’t pay as much attention to dates as those deeply invested in the lore. When I warned people about date inconsistencies, I was told “it doesn’t matter, I don’t pay attention to dates,” and several people said the same thing.

So does this book break canon? No. If you look at the main events as a “retelling from an unreliable narrator,” it works.
But if you treat it as a perfectly precise, 1:1 canonical record down to every detail, then of course it doesn’t work — although that assumption is unrealistic, for the reasons I mentioned above.

[vestal wolf]

I still feel it would be a good faith effort if they tried to revise it to make it more accurate

[elder bobcat]

It sure didn't look like that judging by the way you were framing your responses to allat information, especially with that funny attempt to get the mods involved. It's a matter of honesty with oneself, Kiber. I'm sure you didn't spend months of your own time looking through the game in detail to now discover that Strelok has found HoC a year later than the game itself says he did, setting aside tons of other bamboozling examples. There's no "wasting time" in pointing out serious problems with the product that's aiming to be a S2 lore encyclopedia, if the product's confusing & contradicts the game (which it does in numerous instances, it's undeniable) – this should be addressed immediately. You went as far as notifying the CM about these problems, which indicates that the issue is more than real & it's no doubt gonna hurt the early consumers, who have gotten their hands on a batch that's littered with inaccuracies (probably paying much over the MSRP for it in separate cases) that may be fixed in the upcoming issues. A mess is a mess & has to be called out as such without sugarcoating anything with headcanons as inconsistent as the info itself.

[robust laurel]

It would be better if people talked about real issues instead of inventing or reading into the text things that were never intended, based on their own interpretation. No one is denying factual mistakes in dates or laboratory names. However, at the same time, one should not mistake wishful thinking for reality or invent retcons where none exist.

Don’t assume that people in this chat, just because they don’t know Ukrainian, are unable to read the original text — and that doesn’t give you the right to make up “retcons.”

Could you remind me why you came to this chat talking about “retcons” instead of listening to people in the original language?

Because the original message is right here
#❔┃сюжет message

[elder bobcat]

So apply this logic to yourself, if you please, with that sіІІу construct of yours about "SIRCAA being an unreliable narrator" when we see the same exact critical info omissions & mistakes in SIRCAA/Ward/RB sections, which proves that construct to literally be your personal headcanon to find a diegetic explanation as to why Strelok's raids are "mistakingly misrepresented", but HoC artifact discovery, which is a part of those exact raids judging by the promo material, suddenly isn't & was intended by the writers (we know that's not the case, the game screams the artifact was found in 2010). Projecting much?

[robust laurel]

So you’re trying to say that the cards are not presented as an archive? And that Dalin didn’t correct the archive when he was reading it? And that the information about Agatha is unavailable precisely because it is an archive? So the archive is a reliable source.

So yes, even if an archive is an unreliable source, that doesn’t mean we apply that idea in every case where there are actual real mistakes.

If there is a mistake somewhere, it doesn’t mean that the same logic of interpretation always applies in every case

The information is presented as an institute archive, so yes, it is an unreliable source.

[robust laurel]

Please don’t try to stretch real mistakes to fit that narrative — you’re not doing it convincingly, and it’s making you look bad in public.

Because the original files are right here, and anyone can read them
#❔┃сюжет message

[elder bobcat]

Another portion of headcanon about the intent of writers from someone accusing me of headcanoning. See, that's why you're blocked, mate. You don't even understand what you're talking about in the first place, seeing these arguments when we now know for a fact the promo material was outsourced to a writer outside of GSC makes this even funnier. There are tons of mistakes, provably, and either they should be fixed properly – or these promo materials should be considered Chkalov's own fanfic with GSC's brand slapped on it, just like the STALKER books back in late-00s/early-10s were. Perfect analogy, now that I think about it.

[robust laurel]

So you basically decided to go into denial of reality and ignore the fact that the archive is actually presented as an archive, not an encyclopedia. You just chose to ignore Dalin’s message in the archive and ignore the fact about Agatha, which anyone can verify.

[normal drum]

You're trying to convince yourself that something's gotten retconned when you don't need to. The sense of canon is not always objective. When you face conflicting data, you choose what is true and what is not yourself, relying on the already existing info. I believe that the installation under the Sarcophagus was build in 1998 because it is a real possibility. I don't believe that Strelok's raid happened in August 2011 because it was told otherwise many times in the games. I am conflicted of the date of the 2nd Caribbean experiment because it was once mentioned to be in 2019 and once - in 2021, some may prefer one way, some - another, at least until the new info is dropped. You and I have the same amount of info to process and make a decision, but you're making yourself upset basically over nothing, choosing to believe a less reliable info as a new retconned canon which will most definitely be fixed in the future. We've alerted Mol1t because other people do not have the same amount of time and info to process, and that may cause many questions and therefore trouble for people and the world of Stalker, like how you said. No one was trying to discourage you from finding errors but some of them, especially from the day 1, really were rushed misunderstandings which we've tried to point out but it's concluded in a drama no one wanted. They should've needed to be discussed, not started a war.

[elder bobcat]

The reality is the writing for the Almanac & supporting cards was done by a person outside of GSC's narrative team and features a mass of serious continuity problems & direct clashes with the in-game info, which were not properly QC'ed at the time of production. That's the reality & a huge problem that you were brushing off as "insignificant typos" at first – and here we are few days later with a whole ahh list of errors lasting for ages. That's the reality & I completely disagree with yours & Kibers copium-induced view on it, but that's irrelevant to the fact the problems exist en masse & should be fixed. Bringing this material up to proper standard is what matters & I hope it'll be done, even tho it's an undeniably unfortunate situation for the owners of the current version. That's the bottom line.

[normal drum]

One side says "fix the problems", the other side says it, too. I think this conversation is over, guys.

[elder bobcat]

Indeed.

[robust laurel]

1. We don’t know with 100% certainty what relationship this person has to the studio — these are only assumptions.

2. The cards include the voices of the original actors, which can be seen as supporting their canonicity.

3. It doesn’t really matter “who” wrote it, as long as it was officially released by the studio and has not been officially declared non-canon.

4. It is a fact that the archive is presented as an “unreliable source,” which follows both from the framing of the archive itself and the entries within it. It is also a fact that there are real errors in names and events. In some cases it is difficult to distinguish between deliberate and accidental mistakes, although there are clear examples of apparent errors, such as inconsistencies in dates, which the institute realistically would not have confused. At the same time, many elements can be interpreted in different ways — either as genuine mistakes or as intentional narrative devices, since that is also how the archive is presented. There are also indications that certain inconsistencies are deliberate, for example the misunderstanding regarding Strelok not being an agent, while Korshunov believes he is, which aligns with the information in the archive. There are other similar examples that may suggest intentional framing. However, this does not mean that all mistakes are deliberate. That is not what I am claiming. I also agree that genuine errors should be corrected.

[elder bobcat]

"Unreliable source" here is the writer of those ridiculous texts & people who've greenlitted allat. Now GSC has to once again clean up the mess created by them & "GSC outsourcing things – the aftermath" now clearly looks like a wісkеd pattern that has to be changed asap. But let's see how this product's gonna be treated first, there's a lot of work to be done.

[pine kite]

I have not followed all this closely but is my understanding correct that this was written by someone who was involved in the conception of the story for HoC but not the revision into the final version we saw in the game? And so there's a good chance they were working off their original story and not the final version?

I guess that could explain some of the differences at least

[long trout]

Which part of the CS timeline are you referring to in this case? One of the biggest slip-ups of CS' lore I can think of is Fang. SoC tells us that Fang died before Strelok recovered from his injuries while both Scar and Clear Sky are chasing Fang in CS with (unconfirmed) hints of Leshiy taking care of him somewhere between CS and SoC

[normal drum]

As I've found out, Yevhen Chkalov, the author of (at least) the almanac text, was a junior game designer at GSC. He was probably given some fresh narrative documents, including some DLC info, but he's made a lot of mistakes writing about the already existing lore.

[elder bobcat]

The entire segment of CS events was moved a month back – Clear Sky canonically starts on September 10th, but the card-4 of the promo material states that in August 2011 Strelok went missing during his attempt to get inside the Sarcophagus whilst fighting through Monolithians & Clear Sky soldiers, therefore meaning CS events ended in August, which is completely wrong. What's also wrong is the statement about Strelok finding the Heart of Chornobyl artifact in-between his 1st trip, where he & his group have discovered the coded door in the Sarcophagus & where Strelok got injured, and the 2nd, which is the in-game venture where Strelok "went missing" – it contradicts both Doctor's Diary from 2010 & "if you only knew where I've just been & what I saw" cutscene remake from Doctor's POV in S2, which outright say that HoC artifact was found in 2010 before the 2011 ventures to the CNPP.

[normal drum]

There was a very strange moment in the SIRCAA archive, where Strelok allegedly had two more raids after he's gotten out of the CNPP (what started the events of CS).

[long trout]

Yeah, but let's be realistic about this and say HoC is such a mess, it shouldn't be considered canon or rather as a separate isolated bubble on its own

[normal drum]

"the card-4 of the promo material states that in August 2011" There's more:

• The card 4
• The card 5 and its respective almanac page
• The card 16
• The card 29

While the card 13 mentions that Scar operates in the Swamp region in September 2011.

[long trout]

The problem with CS' timeline specifically is in relation with HoC in this case, correct?

[normal drum]

The HoC shows it correctly, like the SoC does (showing the trip where Strelok returns with the Heart of Chornobyl first, and then the raid to the CNPP happens), but the cards info is conflicting

[long trout]

So yeah, the problem is specifically with the STALKER 2 content

In that case, I'm not bothered

[normal drum]

The problem is with the cards...

[long trout]

Which were made in relation to HoC, right?

So yeah, I'm not bothered

[elder bobcat]

Yes, and when we have 4 separate cards along with the Almanac page going about August 2011, but a single quote of Bergman on one card says "September" – it looks suspiciously like the latter was a mistake, judging from the writer's perspective.

[long trout]

"I'm not bothered" as in "HoC is such a mess, I don't even care what it's trying to do, don't want anything to do with it and stick to the awesome lore of the original games "

[normal drum]

Looking at the date on "The file was opened on:" (Scar card), there's the clear date of the beginning of CS events. I don't know how the author could miss it, but he did.

[long trout]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/561153801114091521/1092159492021563473/ClearSkyMyBeloved.gif

[elder bobcat]

I wonder if GSC would attempt to redo the voiceover for the flawed cards & if it's gonna be possible at all. The "Cost of the QC Absence" expansion.

[normal drum]

I hope so but I don't know if Yaroslav Shynder is capable to do it at this moment.

[elder bobcat]

I've made a similar conclusion initially when I was going about the "armed with canon" situation – it really looked like those responsible for the promo product were trying to fit their own vision of the timeline & events into these materials, which they didn't get to realise during the dev process. But now, as a more clear picture is starting to become available, it's apparent that GSC decided that it'd be a good idea to hand over some of the writing process (if not all of it) to Yevhen Chkalov, who hasn't been involved with the team since very early on in 2020-2021 – and now we have all this mess, naturally. The writer in question has been in charge of developing and scripting some of the game’s side missions in that period (I don't think any of em have made it to the 2024 release as his name's not mentioned in the game's end credits) & ever since then he's been a guide in the Chornobyl Exclusion Zone, served (and continues to do so, I believe) in the Armed Forces of Ukraine and has also published his own STALKER book in 2023 – guess I wasn't far off with my analogy earlier.

[pine kite]

If this is this case I think the ultimate blame is still on GSC simply for not ensuring adequate coordination between everyone, not knowing all the logistical difficulties there may have been etc

[elder bobcat]

Tale as old as the company itself

[pine kite]

Yeah not exactly a huge surprise

But also potentially an interesting if unintended look at the cutting room floor

[elder bobcat]

As in "how many bullets we've actually dodged" 😄

[pine kite]

Revision can certainly be a messy process, hard to say how else the ideas might have developed over time in a different direction, but yeah as it stands now

[elder bobcat]

Now that I think about it, if Chkalov was responsible for writing & compiling all of these texts and has been viewing em through the lens of the early concepts he's been involved with – it's now clear where this whole "Faust has faked his death" & "defenders of the Zone's will" jazz is coming from. We know about one peculiar early concept art that could go along with those suggestions, but it's a bit early to make definitive conclusions. Gotta see where DLCs take us narratively & if anything's gonna change like the loading screen tips & quest dialogues were in the latest patch.

[robust laurel]

To be honest, it's not about "Faust has faked his death"

"Під час здійснення заходів зі знищення відродженого Моноліту та нейтралізації Сигналу із «Дуги», Фауст був ліквідований. Втім, враховуючи його аномальні псі-здібності, є причини підозрювати, що ліквідація Фауста могла бути лише ілюзією. [...] Агенти спостереження мають здобути вичерпні докази того, що Фауст ліквідований, та що інші результати експериментів не свідчать про аналогічну діяльність у Зоні."

“During operations to destroy the reborn Monolith and neutralize the Signal from the Duga, Faust was eliminated. However, given his anomalous psi abilities, there are reasons to suspect that Faust’s elimination may have been merely an illusion. [...] Surveillance agents are to obtain conclusive evidence that Faust has been eliminated and that other experimental results do not indicate similar activity within the Zone.”

[robust laurel]

I will remind you of this message

[elder bobcat]

My own translation: "During the actions taken to eliminate the revived Monolith & neutralise the Signal coming from the Duga, Faust was killed. But accounting for his anomalous psy-abilities, there are reasons to suspect that Faust’s elimination could’ve just been an illusion" [...] "Surveillance agents must acquire the definitive proofs of Faust’s elimination".

Your translation: "During operations to destroy the reborn Monolith and neutralize the Signal from the Duga, Faust was eliminated. However, given his anomalous psi abilities, there are reasons to suspect that Faust’s elimination may have been merely an illusion. [...] Surveillance agents are to obtain conclusive evidence that Faust has been eliminated".

They're the same picture, Karl. Nothing of context was lost in both – it's just that I see where Chkalov is going with this given everything we know so far, and you are still somewhere in the clouds.

[robust laurel]

Dude, if you’re going to argue with the original text, don’t waste your time—because I’m definitely not going to waste mine trying to prove that the text says exactly what it says.

[normal drum]

What Oleksandr is trying to say is that the text doesn't prove nor disprove Faust's survival, so the text's basically about nothing.

[elder bobcat]

That's the point: I'm not arguing with anything & simply quoting what's there. And my translation isn't any different than yours, although I like the "obtain conclusive evidence" part better, sounds more elegant. The conclusion is that the early concept narrative (if it is still "early concept narrative" & not something we'll see coming to fruition soon) is juicing through these lines real hard. Looking at how the tone towards Monolithians was changed in the loading screen tips, going from "murder these bastards on the spot" to "be careful around em, just in case", how the Dark Horse artbook named the alpha "the Monolith" & how the descriptions of Monolithians in the ATB promo refer to them as "the chosen defenders of the Zone" with allat "manifestation of the Zone's will" jazz – your spider senses should already be tingling. But it's always easier to dismiss & brush off things if you refuse to put these different pieces into one big puzzle, I get it.

[robust laurel]

And this person had previously accused me of “making up interpretations”

“You’re misunderstanding it. I’ll explain everything to you now.”

I don’t have time for fantasies

[radiant harness]

are you saying you think Stalker is real?

[robust laurel]

Of course, it’s real, just like the Monolith.

[radiant harness]

[robust laurel]

You are still somewhere in the clouds

[elder bobcat]

Those are literal quotes, f'n hell, you can't be that dense. Half of that was also taken from the Zone Chronicles Wiki with the accents shifted. How'd you know tho, you've never seen those texts over there with your own eyes.

[robust laurel]

The arguments have started

Just consider your “interpretation” the most correct one, and everyone else’s… well, you know.

[long trout]

Based

You know HoC's lore is a mess if people are arguing about it for that long

[indigo arrow]

Hello, stalkers. I have a question for the lore experts here:

Is it ever clarified in S2 who's the mysterious client that hires the mercenaries in CoP?

I've been wondering for a while

[ornate venture]

wolfboy7685 has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[normal drum]

No, it wasn't, we've only got yet another side to suspect in it, namely the Supervisory Board.

[mortal bronze]

Is anyone willing to tell me in more depth about this world I love stalker I'm not a vet to the trilogy and can't play them altho I own them (thay make me motion sick for some weird reason) been playing stalker 2 since release and have loved every moment I just wish to know more about the world of stalker

And I have looked into duty wouldn't change my profile pick without doing my research

[stark prawn]

Anomalous Dugout on YouTube for stalker lore bro.

You can’t really get anymore in depth than his vids.

[mortal bronze]

Thanks I will look into him

[robust laurel]

It’s impossible to describe the game world right away because there’s no specific question. But if you want to read something interesting about the game world, there was a discussion about it here
#s2-lore-discussions message

[mortal bronze]

So question with psi radiation the hallucinations aren't what's hurting you the psi radiation itself is but the hallucinations are just a representation of them am I understanding that correctly

[robust laurel]

This is already the territory of speculation about “how exactly psi affects the brain in the game world and why a person becomes zombified.”
It’s impossible to say for sure, but we can assume that if psi is something like “biological radio waves,” then it changes the brain’s operating frequency. In other words, the brain starts functioning chaotically, like a radio that’s not tuned to the right frequency.

However, this is only a hypothesis of how it might work. The game itself doesn’t explain this aspect in detail.

There are different ways to interpret it:

1. Psi only disrupts the brain’s operating frequency, which is why we experience hallucinations.
2. Psi causes a desynchronization between the consciousness in the body and the consciousness in the Noosphere (a copy of consciousness, a phantom in the Noosphere).
3. Psi simply burns out neurons irreversibly.

All of these are just different attempts to explain the same outcome that we observe.
So, we know what psi is and how it works, but we don’t know exactly how it affects things.

[mortal bronze]

And a noosphere is basically the invisible information highway for all living beings am I getting that right

[robust laurel]

The Noosphere is essentially just a large repository of information. It shouldn’t be confused with Vernadsky’s Noosphere, because his concept is completely different. In the game, the Noosphere is more of a metaphysical entity.

[mortal bronze]

Ah ok ty

[indigo arrow]

Thank you 🫡

[marsh pilot]

Anyone aware that in stalker2[.]com are talking about adding multi-player? I tough it was off since the start?

[smoky hornet]

No, Coop is off the table

There are plans but I imagine it’ll just be basic TDM and it won’t be for Years

[ornate venture]

vvinkomaddy has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[ornate venture]

fivesaturn45255 has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

cats_arelowkeythebest has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[ornate venture]

fivesaturn45255 has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[ornate venture]

fivesaturn45255 has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[vital pollen]

It is not referenced in SoC and we had this discussion three times by now, are you demented?

[long trout]

I literally read this in Vanilla

[vital pollen]

It’s a mistranslation, original text says “made a lot of money”

And we talked about this twice in cam inert alone

[long trout]

So it's canon in EN lore, proving yet again that it's superior

[vital pollen]

Not demented, just mentally challenged then

[long trout]

I'm not the one wearing skirts 🥀

[eager igloo]

What happend with locations? 1). Why bloosucker lair (ZnZ Circle) from CoP was moved soo far from Zaton?
2). Why Duga isn't in Limansk city?

[shrewd igloo]

IMPOSSIBLE challenge:
Don't try to justify ENG localization in stalker

[vital pollen]

Lymansk Duga is not Duga, it’s just inspired by it (much like brain scorcher).

The locations were moved to match real life geography a tiny bit better, though obviously at the cost of continuity and plot coherence

[hexed flame]

The krug antennas or whatever they were called was moved because its a real location thats part of the radar complex duga was part of afaik

Zaton on the other hand is not actually real its heavily inspired by the giant swamps north/east of pripyat but its not an actual place
So they moved it and the swamps east and layered them so they reflect the real life swamps better and also show the progression into more and more inhospitable terrain

Also it works well gameplay wise because the swamps are a very dangerous and important story area so they should be quite hard to access and preferably should be somewhere on the edge of the map not dead center like cordon

[eager igloo]

😮

[deep forum]

You can also take the swamps as an implicit explanation for why everyone is coming from more or less one direction. The other areas are just too dangerous.

[robust laurel]

I really liked that the burnt farmstead was merged with the one from Clear Sky. So now it’s truly the same location, and that makes sense.

[hexed flame]

well yes
however this explanation really holds true irl so its not even a gameification reason

[winter mauve]

Has it been said how Faust highjacked / hacked the Alpha artifact that provoked the failure at X11 ? Has it been imagined ?

I think it has not been really addressed, right ?

[pearl sparrow]

Speculation, but I think the Alpha artifact gave C-Con the extra juice it needed to reassert control over the Monoloth and its soldiers.

If I understand the Noosphere (which is a big assumption) then the Monoloth is like a speaker for C-Con influence.

The alpha artifact supercharged it thanks to whatever the scanners do (we have see them literally cause anomalies)

The emitters seem to be Psi relays of some kind, just extending the reach of the monolith (and thus C-Cons) influence.

So he didn’t really hack it, he set up the situation where the zone would react a certain way when SIRCAA did what everyone knew they would do.

[normal drum]

He didn't highjack the artifact. He highjacked:

1. the Azimuth station (Foma), to rearrange the flow of the signal to the Sphere and potentially the Duga (the last one has failed because the scientists stopped connection at the Orbita station);
2. the Sphere (Sukhin), to spread the Monolith programm's Signal across the whole Zone;
3. the Scanner core, to become the Voice of the Monolith by reprogramming the Monolith programm within the X-Network.

[ornate venture]

coco910358 has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[ornate venture]

rafale07 has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[winter mauve]

@pearl sparrow @normal drum thanks a lot guys, I understand a bit more indeed !

Involving C Cons wasn't in my notes, which changes some perpectives

So Dalin thought X11 would reconnect to the Generators with the Alpha but ending up as ... correct me if wrong : X11 as a generator for the Sphere ?

or a switch, at least

[normal drum]

@winter mauve The Alpha artifact has nothing to do with the C-Con nor the Monolith programm (do not confuse with the Monolith installation aka the Wish Granter) specifically. The experiment restarted the X-Network and, thanks to Faust, also triggered the defense protocol which revived the Monolith programm (which can work totally without C-Con).
The Alpha didn't "supercharge" anything. Scanners pick the anomalous energy that's already surrounding them and manipulates it. When there's nothing in them to recharge or the artifact doesn't accept the energy, the scanner will have no choice but to release the energy back to the environment, thus creating anomalies.

[normal drum]

No. The Alpha is not a generator but merely a transformer (that's a whole different topic, the important thing to know here is that it's just a key to the Generators). The experiment restarted the X-Network which connects all X-labs (and with right tools, their equipment can be controlled, distantly included). The Sphere is already a huge emitter, it just needed a specific signal to send (the Monolith programm one).

[winter mauve]

ooohhhh, more clear then, the Alpha was not an energy source but the message / signal, ok ok

and thanks for precising Monolith program VS Wish Granter, which is in fact usless now, made only to hide the existence of C Cons and no more use in STALKER 2

[robust laurel]

The only thing it has in common is that the Monolith requires Alpha to function, and it also seems that C-Con copied the design of the Monolith’s hologram from Alpha.

[normal drum]

There's a speculation that the real source of the Monolith programm is inside the Red Fortress, that the supercomputer "Skala" is responsible for it. The only clue we have is that, for some reason, the Red Fortress was/is the "main base" for the Monolithians. It's possible that they defended it so fiercly because of the reason above.

[winter mauve]

And also : does X11 explode in the cinematic because Strider steals the Alpha ?

[normal drum]

Probably. Everything seemed to "work" until Strider took the artifact without any regard for safety measures

[winter mauve]

And last question for tonight : is the Monolith signal recieved at X11 was coming from Sphere ?

and not from the Alpha just in front of the characters ?

or from the entire Zone's antennas and transmetters ?

[normal drum]

It had multiple sources (all Monolith emitters most definitely reconnected to the X-Network), but the Sphere seems to be the main source of trouble (there are no mentions of any other huge sources of the Signal; prof. Lodochka cared about the one on the Wild Island only because it affected every Noontider inside their base, compromising them, he wanted to make sure it would be "safe" again).

[winter mauve]

thanks a lot man !

ill ping ya if i have any trouble 🫡

[robust laurel]

#📰┃announcement message
Now you will be able to read the original

[silent seal]

Any idea if this means we will be getting a print edition of English version or just the translated one digitally?

[robust laurel]

I think it will be a digital-only edition for now.

[silent seal]

Gotcha, thanks. I was lucky enough to get my hands on Ukrainian version of the almanac & some cards but it will be nice to have this for reference

[robust laurel]

So far, the third page hasn’t been published, and many others as well. I think this might be related to corrections that will appear in the next print run of the almanac

[sinful kettle]

I just finished my first playthrough on veteran and earned the Project Y ending :D

Watched the whole end credits for the wonderful devs

[acoustic wigeon]

you've spread the glory of the Monolith over the entire globe, good job

[sinful kettle]

My current theory is that a bunch of mini-zones showed up, kinda like in Roadside Picnic (though I haven’t fully read the book)

[robust laurel]

My main hypothesis about the ending is that Skif created new Zones that will be better than the previous one, because they were born in freedom.

The overall message of the finale symbolizes the philosophical idea of embracing the will to live, and it also serves as a reference to the biblical Last Judgment, reflected in Faust’s words.

[sinful kettle]

Oooo I like that interpretation

Goes with what Doctor said too, though I’m not sure if it would guarantee a “joy most profound” over a global disaster

Either way it’s awesome that we’re still given stuff to think about after the ending

[grizzled mantle]

First ending I got was the ward ending but I’m still very confused in general on who Agatha like actually is. Like her teleportation could be explained by an artifact but I’m not sure that’s 100%

[little gazelle]

iirc she's not even real and is more like a hologram or something

[normal drum]

Agatha uses projections to show herself in different places while not being physically present there. Projections are a type of psi-influence in the same category as phantoms, however, it doesn't create a copy but transfers your consciousness to the place you are projected. Projections are not to be confused with illusions because they are not an individual image made by an affected brain but a physical manifestation made by emitting tau-waves. Other than Agatha's examples in SIRCAA/Chemical Plant/Foundation, it was mentioned to be worked on in the Mirror facility, was used by Faust in the CS base and also shown in the Oasis-3.

Now I've explained how it's done but it doesn't prove or disprove whether Agatha is human or not. There are arguments made by both sides but for me, it's much more believable for her to be human (especially because of the Ward's ending where she can move around without any tau-emitters). If the new almanac info was confirmed as canon, it would also confirm that she is indeed a human.

[normal drum]

As was feared, the English version of the almanac doesn't contain any fixes. Therefore, waiting for GSC to post other pages is pointless, you can take and translate the full text from here: #❔┃сюжет message

[sterile ingot]

Is the reason behind striders glowing hair explained in the previous games or did i just miss it in stalker 2? (In cinematic cutscenes ofc)

[twin zodiac]

Im pretty sure thats just a bug

I had the same thing with Dalin in my last save

[normal drum]

It's a bug (developers don't fix it because the game is going to be updated to a newer version of the game engine anyway), you can fix it with this mod: https://www.nexusmods.com/stalker2heartofchornobyl/mods/2212

[robust laurel]

Some players with shining hair are looking for Faust

[normal drum]

(#⭐┃основна-тема message "It's a translation, not the new edition. The mistakes we've seen have been already reported."

There is practically no doubt the new, DLC-relevant info is canon. No retcons. Just waiting for the fixes. With patience.)

[frosty ridge]

There's something very neat about how Korshunov's tragic arc has him witnessing (or at least his corpse witnessing) someone else make the right decision he never had the will to both times it counted, with Dalin throwing the C-Con into the large variometer and destroying the Foundation paralleling Kaymanov shooting the variometer and causing the Second Disaster. Notably, during both instances he was below them to the right while they stood on a mezzanine (further parallel, they literally stepped up, being positioned above him). For all his hate of the monstrosity that befell Granite Squad and the horrors anomalous research unleashed, he never directed his ire at the actual institutions of harm (the Board and their projects). He could've been the one standing on that platform instead, but he chose not to, and so he died like the dog he was

[ornate venture]

koltonspring has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[winter mauve]

Im also very satisfied about the game endings because EVERY end comes to a bad side. Love that feeling. Endings spoilers, just in case.

|| Strelok the Legend 😄 being the new C Cons, meh … ||

|| Kaimanov Zones 😄 but it is Faust, meh … ||

|| The Ward using the anomaly energy for greater humanity 😄 learning you are an agent ||

|| Spark … well, everything fcks up. lol ||

Also guys, could I have your views on the fact you can have almost the best gear of the game right at the beginning of the game if you know the good spots ?

Except Prypiat, nothing is really soft locked

[robust laurel]

Kaimanov didn’t actually become Faust in the literal sense. The scene takes place in the Subtle World, and the entire scene is more of a metaphor than a reflection of reality. I could explain the meaning of the ending in more detail, of course, if you’re interested.

And spoilers are allowed in this chat.

[winter mauve]

oooohhhh makes sence, as the sun is bright in this ending

But I thought only Spark ending coroborated the Subtle Matter is real

[robust laurel]

Faust also believed, at least, in the Subtle World, because that is exactly what he called the dimension that was on Duga

[winter mauve]

But you can tell him everything is a lie, and what he describes as subtle matter is indeed a psi-thing

given he's a lab experience

[robust laurel]

That’s true, but he already knows that. He knows about the existence of C-Consciousness and the Monolith installation.
The topic here is more complicated — it’s religious and philosophical in nature. It’s a very long discussion, but I’ll try to explain it briefly.

For Faust, the Monolith is something more than just a program. To him, it is a genuine faith. Let me give an analogy:

Even in real life, someone can say “God does not exist,” yet faith in God still exists. And thoughts or beliefs are, in a certain sense, real themselves — therefore, God becomes real through that belief. I hope I managed to convey the essence of his faith.

[winter mauve]

oh like happiness : looking for happiness is the way. The happiness as a goal isn't the point

[robust laurel]

Exactly. Before Duga, Faust was convinced that happiness had to be imposed on people, but after his death he rethought that idea. He realized that every person must come to it on their own. In that sense, you could also say that what he talks about in the game’s ending is connected to free will.

[winter mauve]

Oh so Doctor ending is in fact Faust redemption arc at its climax

Sort of

But again, as I said months ago here, and this is the first time it arrives to me in a game, the end is what the player chooses to believe in.
You can choose to believe in subtle matter / Shinning Zone. Or you can chose to tell it isn’t which is the key in the Foundation level.

Im just waiting to see what is canon, at the end.

[robust laurel]

That’s why I say the Doctor ending is a very deep and extensive topic.
The finale raises many different themes:

• The question of free will
• Faust’s character arc and his conflict with the Doctor
• Project Y and its connection to the Gospel — specifically the idea of the Last Judgment

All of these are three major themes.

[winter mauve]

Depth you don’t find in other ends right ?

[robust laurel]

Scar’s ending and the Shining Zone raise even more themes, but I don’t have much time to talk about them

[winter mauve]

Needing a proper essay video on that topic haha

[normal drum]

Not really a redemption but a conciliation with Doctor, acceptance of his views, he's realised his wrongdoings already on the Duga.

[winter mauve]

Im always for videos that explains the lore of a game further than the devs were saying in a first hand because in most of examples, it tells you the lore as much as about the devs themselves and the unconscious way they write and produce something artistic

[robust laurel]

Actually, all of the endings are deep, except perhaps the Ward ending. Its idea is fairly simple — exchanging freedom for happiness.

[normal drum]

You know, actually @robust laurel made one, it's in Ukrainian but has English subtitles, it's also in some parts outdated https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6MoizXPnJg

[winter mauve]

I put a bookmark on this ok, thanks !

[normal drum]

I like how the developers made it so that for each "every ending is bad" there is "every ending is good":

• With Agatha, humanity will reach unimaginable levels of technological progress as the psi-waves have practically reality-warping abilities;
• Scar and C-Consciousness secured immortality and bright, limitless future for humanity in the new reality, leaving the darkness in the previous one.
• Strelok saved humanity from being ever manipulated or affected without their permission, by sealing off the access to the Noosphere.
• Skif's and Doctor's actions led to giving access to the Noosphere to everyone, breaking the monopoly and giving a chance for humanity to evolve in freedom.

[stoic plank]

The anomalous dugout has lots of lore videos on yt and they're interesting but also entertaining

[stoic plank]

Yeah but in the spark ending, at the end we see skif is zombified and none of the people he saw in the shining zone were physically there with him

Unless I'm missing something

[hexed flame]

Yes but seemingly their consciousnesses (or some part of them) were transferred to the shining zone

Or its a very elaborate illusion only skif experiences but that would be far fetched

But there is also the topic of the shining zone being real or not esp between endings

[stoic plank]

Yeah idk i don't understand it that well

[normal drum]

That was the point. To access the Subtle World, you need to die in the physical world, to remove your mortal shell.

Regardless of the question whether a soul exists, all information about a person is already stored in the Noosphere. All sentient beings emit alpha-psi and send their mental images to the Noosphere, creating a two-way connection between each other, like a client and a server.

To become zombified is an another way to enter the Subtle World (you can even hear a zombified mumbling about how they've reached the Shining Zone during the gameplay). That's why Scar was actively using psi-bombs even on the Sparkers themselves, like Squint. The difference between zombified and dead people is that the zombified are immortal within the Zone and still keep the one-way connection with the Noosphere (that's why Subtle Skif feels nothing from the physical world while zombified Skif still can mimic some movements Subtle Skif does). Hypotetically, the information can be put back inside them, converting them back to normal people, if needed.

Also a crucial detail is that the 2nd Carribean experiment damaged the Noosphere's structure, causing mental images to become isolated from each other. That's why some zombified feel disorientation, the voice before you enter the pod on the Orbita station says about feeling cold and seeing no one, and Strider is isolated from anyone, too, not knowing what is happening to him, what exactly happened after the experiment in X-11, and not being able to meet with other fallen Monolithians. C-Consciousness fixed it after they've achieved the full control over the Noosphere.

[normal drum]

Returning back to the point with information, it comes to a conclusion that there is always a "copy", a backup of a person within the Noosphere. This mental image starts to live after a person dies. Does this mean the Subtle Matter is real? No, because there is still no real proof something that can be called a soul exists in the Stalker universe. It can be just a copy of you that lives while "real you" is dead. Take some ways of teleportation as an example. You are ripped apart, atom by atom, and your exact copy is placed somewhere else. Did you just die, while a copy of you is free to go?

Scientifically, there is actually no consciousness as a single thing. You are constantly changing, you are not you anymore in a mere moment, but you don't realise it. Therefore, the previous question becomes irrelevant. However, the plot point of the Subtle Matter is built on a conflict that you should care if a person in the Subtle World is really them, or just a copy, that's why it's believed that the developers didn't dig that deep and made things simpler leaving a hypotetical soul/consciousness as something singular.

Now that I've explained how it works, there's still a question left, namely the acceptance of the new reality. The answer to it is given in the ending cutscene by Richter: "Reality is whatever you think is real". Reality doesn't matter, it is your mind, your experiences, your feelings that do. Of course, you don't necessarily have to agree with this statement, even the game itself presents its critique like Doctor saying that "you can still miss the old world". But that's what Skif does, he accepts it in this particular ending, like he accepts other ideas in the other endings.

[stoic plank]

Interesting explanation, ty

I have an unrelated question: how are c con agents formed/created?

[normal drum]

With the neuroprogrammers ("TVs"). Through psi-influence, a person is given a mission in the form of an obsessive idea so a person would believe it's their own idea. In all other aspects they are a completely free person, they can attempt to achieve their goal in any way they want.

Moreover, they are "marked". That means that they are connected to the programm "STALKER" (not to confuse with the programm "Monolith") that allows to monitor their actions through devices which contact the Noosphere (like how Dark's POV could be seen through a device in the Troposphere Comm Station). It's unknown if the tatoo "STALKER" is related to this mark.

Usually, an Agent can be programmed only once (after that, they won't stand seeing "TVs" again), and only "reframes" can make them follow different orders (like "fresh" orders to Scar from the MDST, or orders to Chornozem and Nestor from Doctor). The only exception is when a person has a high level of natural psi-protection like Scar who was programmed at least twice and who doesn't fall unconscious immediately after seeing "TVs".

Realisation that they are an Agent can make a person become free again. Like Scar in his ending who has realised his ideals and goals were never his own but still went to the capsule, he's made his own choice to finish the mission (you can see how his character has changed after the neurolab scene, most notably how he throws the PDA with his orders away before entering the capsule).

Contrary to popular belief, Strelok has never become an Agent. Korshunov believes he is but gives weak arguments like his tatoo and his obsession with the goal to protect the Zone. However, Strelok is not affected by "TVs" (like any non-Agent) and it's stated in his file that there was an error during the programming process.

[stoic plank]

But wasn't strelok part of the files you find in the library looking room during the ward ending?

Also is there a specific location that is used to program the agents or will any 'tv' do?

[robust laurel]

@winter mauve here’s a detailed explanation of why the Scar ending is deeper than it seems. That’s why I didn’t have time to write all of this back then

[normal drum]

There is, you find files of Dark, Chornozem, Nestor, Scar and Strelok there.

[robust laurel]

All that’s left is to explain what the depth of Strelok’s ending lies in

[stoic plank]

The more I read the more I realize I don't know much about the lore

[normal drum]

I don't know if we can just unscrew one of the "TVs" and then use them . But usually, all Agents were created in the neurolaboratory in X-7. The "TVs" in X-3 could be arguably used, too, at least on Chornozem and Nestor (that's why Doctor needed to destroy all the evidences there).

[normal drum]

(I misunderstood the question, yes, there is a file, but it differs from the other files, everything there was marked as "unknown" due to the error. Everything that the programming did is gave Strelok a temporary amnesia, but it, too, is not determined, he could lose his memory from Scar's EM-1, a prototype of the Gauss rifle, or just hit his head during the storm while transporting him in a death truck)

[normal drum]

Sadly, he tells you what happened but never really analyses it. That's why his videos, e.g. about the game endings or "teased new secrets", feel dry, like only their "surface" was scratched while there is so much more to explore.

[stoic plank]

Ty

Fair enough but if you want to know more about the story itself then it's good

[weary bough]

So idk if it counts as lore but what exactly are the popper Anomalies (the flash bangs)? Are they psi based considering they predict or know your path?

[smoky hornet]

Thermal

[weary bough]

interesting

[smoky hornet]

Honestly I just see em as supernatural pockets of swamp gas

An explosion less then an inch from your face will definitely blind you lmao

[nocturne moss]

what does it mean that the CNPP is blurry in S2?

[smoky hornet]

Radiation

Like it’s nothing fancy, it’s just so radioactive that it fucks up the satellite image

[nocturne moss]

thanks for answering, but is it accessible or is it impossible to enter there?

[smoky hornet]

It’s opening up once the DLC drops this summer

[nocturne moss]

dlc :,(? dam

so the title is Heart of Chernobyl but the center is a DLC? RIP

[smoky hornet]

Honestly no idea, they might open it up for free and just lock alll the story & gear

[nocturne moss]

i hope so 🙏

[shrewd igloo]

Yes, one of the regions of Cost Hope is the CNPP and Cost of Hope won't be free, as "prologue for DLC01" we have the 1.8 and the 1.9

[hexed flame]

The title does not refer to the cnpp but rather something else

[hexed flame]

I doubt that since it will likely require some quest to open the iron forest
Also the trailer showed some story action in an area similar to the jupiter underpass it might be that going through there and completing that will be a requirement

[noble oxide]

new sidequest spoiler below

||Anyone else caught onto the QR code on the note from Mavka's chat with Lukash at the end of the unfinished business sidequest? Interesting stuff. Seems like there's something brewing a bit more under the surface, the QR link is this https://www.stalker2.com/archive_entry-14934823 ||

[normal drum]

Yes, it's pretty easy to notice, was done in the first hour after the patch released

[nocturne moss]

Well, maybe not, but when you think of "Heart of Chernobyl" the first thing that comes to mind is the CNPP, the center of it all. I mean, it's like common sense, at least to me.