s2-lore-discussions

[jagged hull]

the common understanding is that zombification is caused by undirected psi emissions just when the brains are overloaded

the signal has different parameters that affects people differently

also skif was affected by the signal as well

we can see in the cutscene where the signal is activated he falls to his knees

that should debunk the signal being targetted to specific people

[brave iris]

id like to ask then what do you think is the reason why Faust had to go to CS in the first place if not to get a working visiograph to upload all the monolithians from Ccon

[jagged hull]

its to hand over the scanner to shterev

hes the one that got the coded message to come to CS base

skif just killed him first

shterev found some way to get into sircaa stealthily (that was used by faust's men presumably) so he would be the one to lead them into sircaa

[brave iris]

interesting point of view

[jagged hull]

im not 100% sure of this but all of the evidence points to shterev having to take the scanner

[surreal blade]

ah yeah, i mean as a concept of faction. They may well decide to hide their operators undercover or moving their HQ somewhere secluded. Become a secret organization that covers its tracks

[feral linden]

what happened to limansk and the other missing places lile cnpp during stalker2 ?

[mighty zinc]

Probably kept for future DLC

Hopefully not as dragged out as fighting Diablo is for Diablo 4 🤣

[feral linden]

but like what happened to limansk? i hear people refer to it as nightmare city

[mighty zinc]

Something really bad, based on the radio near where we find Spirit in S2. I don't remember at all if the OG trilogy would have an answer to your question, though, sorry

[feral linden]

what did the radio say

[gusty lotus]

I came back to playing this game after patch 1.6 and managed to go to Rostock. and managed to talk to Birch. My question is why lore wise , they are they so few women in the zone? I mean a lot of adventurers, soldiers, traders, scientists that come to the zone to defend, profit, and research the dangerous environment that is the zone are mostly men. Why don't we see more women in the zone? I'm just curious, since this is my first time playing the game after waiting since release for patches and upgrades to the game.

[feral linden]

because women are smarter than men

who tf with normal mind would go into an area with mutants

[gusty lotus]

Good point, also there is the anomalies, and the fact that it is located at the site of the Chernobyl/Chornobyl disaster area with lingering high amounts of radiation after almost 40 years.

[vapid spire]

You think they should put dead city in stalker 2 and make it part of limansk? I mean they super sized garbage and aggroprom so might as well do it for limansk to.

[quartz spear]

Becouse it's fun? (Until it's not)

[fossil depot]

I mean, mutants haul a lot of money.

[jagged hull]

youre not gonna get a straight answer ive not heard anything close to an answer for this in the game

[brave iris]

depending, I think that Controller scalps are undervalued alot rn

[fossil depot]

I mean lore-wise, the reasons stalkers go into the Zone is to find artifacts for money. Whether they're actual artifacts, haul from mutants, radio-active junk, usable electronics and what-not.

[candid pilot]

An interesting question would be, how much credits the "heart of chernobyl" would generate, if you're ever be able to carry it with you for sales reasons^^

[jagged hull]

10 kupons

[proven wolf]

Thats because the whole economy is junk right now... You find to far to much in the world, especially food, even rare artefacts are practically worthless... Killing certain mutants should reward a lot money... but nah... most mutant parts are worth less than a lot of ammo clips

[proven wolf]

1000k

[lofty yew]

When you say they're worth less than ammo do you compare selling parts to malachite or other vendors?

If we're talking lore the ammo vs mutant part selling price is very accurate:

Mutant parts are only needed for research. You sell them to Viktoria in Malachite when they need it, you get a load of money. On the other hand, if you sell them to Sidorovich, on top of the fact that he's a bastard, he can't do anything with them directly – someone else has to take the long and dangerous trip from Rookie Village to Malachite, and they'll expect payment for the trip. And he has to keep them on ice until the trip is possible, which costs him generator fuel.

On the other other hand, since everyone is fighting everyone in the zone, and unless they get drunk and start a campfire fist fight, they'll use bullets to do it, ammo is pretty darned valuable for everyone.

but that's just a theory.... a game theory!

[surreal blade]

Game theory should make videos on this series honestly

[frosty ridge]

Lore discussions which characters in stalker 2 are catboys and which are dogboys

Strelok is giving catboy, Kymanov is just canon dogboy, but I’m unsure for Richter

This is the greatest lore issue of our time. Our nation faces a crisis

Faust is 100% catboy tho

[fossil depot]

Ammunition is also available in bulk. Ridiculous amounts of ammunition are just lying around; not to mention the number of enemies everyone fights.

Meanwhile, the IPSF and Ward have their own infinite supply and the Monolith have their own.

[deep forum]

Ye, I think there should be a lo less ammo lying around but more dropped by stalkerd in a realistic zone. However, we can assume that some ammo is of bad quality, dirty or corroded by anomalies.

high quality guns > high quality ammo > low quality ammo > low quality guns

In SoC, CS and CoP you could progress by just using the ammo you find on people you killed if you swap guns as well and are super efficient. That makes sense imho.

[frosty ridge]

You think small. Mutant parts only for research? We know that people in the mainland pay good money for rare trophies of the Zone, furs from zone animals, etc. I think this is even stated in SoC. Poaching absolutely should be a legitimate business model

you know how much elephant tusks go for? now imagine that with a rare mutant like a chimera.

[jagged hull]

i think the difference is that a chimera can wipe out half a dozen of people with top tier gear and elephants have guns made to kill them easily

[deep forum]

I also feel like CoP captured it correctly: If you kill a chimera that took down a dozen of squads, you will be celebrated a hero and people will show their appreciation.
Tbh. I don't think that trophy hunting & co brings big money because it is difficult to preserve stuff in a condition good enough to be valuable for collectors.
However, hunting for traders must be very valuable. You want your route cleared so people bring you goods again? Better pay big to make it worthwhile - and/or throw some buckshot on top and a free healing afterwards.

[fossil depot]

That's not how it works; all guns are high quality based on how they're maintained.

You can have a high-quality MAC-10 that shoots like a sniper (well, as much as it can considering the barrel length) because it's well-maintained and you can have a low-quality Gauss Rifle that misses at point-blank due to lack of maintenance.

[fossil depot]

You say that to Sidorovich, he's going to black-list you from his shop, since he doesn't like paying. 😏

[fossil depot]

'Efficient'...

Me who uses fully automatic fire on everything be like...

[winter mauve]

Yo guys
Just figured something that I might do understand badly but I need your views on this :

My thoughts there are :

if you decide to align with Spark, the Subtle Matter exist. The C-Cons still survived.

If you don’t align with Spark, the game tells you none of this exists, it is illusion since the beginning basically. And it feels like the game tells you none of « you basically decide if the all plot is truly true or if it was a lie »

I take my words from the moment where the C-Cons appears in front of you and Dalin.

Basically, if you and Dalin waits enough what the Representative tells you (Spark alignment), the game decides Scar is right since the beginning, subtle matter, noosphere, everything is canon.

But else, the Representative appears to be just a dumb recording of a so-called conscious and the entire plot is everything is just illusion and holograms

Just to say : am I wrong if I consider the game isn’t « ballzy » enough to take a final decision on its own end but in fact, that are the player choices which determines if all the pseudoscience behind is true or wrong ?

[jagged hull]

i considered this for a bit and my final judgement was that what spark says is true, but everything they believe is an illusion

which doesnt go against what strelok says

i havent looked deep enough to find many real conflicts but there might be and in that case i think what youre proposing might work as an explanation

player choice already dictates what happens in the story, why not let it dictate what parts of the pseudoscience that werent defined before are real

[proven wolf]

I only sell at Malachite, Even then you get almost nothing.

[sturdy thunder]

I horde mutant parts and only sell them through the missions.

[proven wolf]

Pretty much what I have done.

But they should be able to be sold else where, for a sensible amount, that is just a spit in the face for your time and effort.

[sturdy thunder]

Yeah, made it a side hustle. A way to get armor and weapon blue prints. Maybe unique weapons.

You can do the arena...

Or give me 10 chimera ears, get the shotgun I never got.

Deggies dnipro... 75 snork vertebrae.

[fathom veldt]

like a red pill and blue pill huh?

[fierce ibex]

|| thats an interesting concept for the solidity of the lore fore the science fiction in the game, i wont say anything about that but i think its really funny how in the different paths the non scar one has dalin destroying the machine saying it doesnt work and the scar one has dalin hanging around maybe actually one second longer and the ghost of his dad appearing, like its possible the ccon could have appeared in the other endings if he hadnt been too hasty to destroy it||

[winter mauve]

The entire purpose of Matrix is that you will take the red one at the end, that’s the main plot. Side plot if you take the blue one = the guy with the steak scene

[winter mauve]

That’s my exact point, yep.

[winter mauve]

That would be why the very end Spark end is a massive illusion.

[winter mauve]

Because to me, the part the player chooses at the end is a very big part of actually what the entire game is all about. As you said in your first message. « Spark is right but their beliefs are illusion » ok. Let’s say that’s right : what the game tells me when 3 endings under 4 are saying Spark is wrong and those paths saying Subtle Matter eventually doesn’t exist ?

And what’s the purpose of C Cons saying « put Scar in the pod and the Shinning Zone appears » ending as a massive Genjustu illusion ? Is the Spark ending a massive C Cons plan to take revenge on the entire Zone and using the connection between them and Scar to do something they would have done if they were still alive in their pods ?

[jagged hull]

the endings themselves i dont think play an insanely huge part when revealing the games themes in my eyes so this isnt really a problem

[winter mauve]

Sorry I should have say the paths. The journeys through the choices.

[jagged hull]

well its either covering their mistakes up or they also believe in the shining zone

[winter mauve]

Really the key moment to me is as @fierce ibex said

[jagged hull]

i guess youre right in that case but from what ive seen the different paths dont really step on eachother in terms of themes they all build up to something

[winter mauve]

Considering they manipulate Scar from the beginning and himself knowing he’s an agent, your first suggestion is my favorite

[jagged hull]

i also think its the most likely option, it has been their goal all along

[winter mauve]

That’s true, every path build something but what is a problem to me is that C Cons and Dalin scene appearing or not if you are Spark aligned

I mean this scene is one of the massive plot of the entire game

[jagged hull]

i dont think its a huge problem
we all know how biased people are and how differently they can interpret what they see.

[winter mauve]

I’d have love like it appears anyways and having the possibility to say « I don’t care of you, I’m Strelok friend lol »

[jagged hull]

its the whole point of the spark ending i feel, their blind belief making anything scar says real

[winter mauve]

Yes and you are part of it, after seeing what Faust is capable of and the first Representative scene

No matter the side you’re on

[jagged hull]

yep specifying scar doing that isnt necessary

by the end skif is the one pushing scar forward

[winter mauve]

The problem to me is what is canon in the official Stalker lore

Because, yes I have found my point : the Spark ending is the path that brings the more information to the player

And to the lore

[jagged hull]

most people believe that the true ending is skifs ending so anything following that line of events is probably canon but we wont know which ending is truly real for a while

the other endings i feel are mostly there to explore the different characters and entertain different parts of skif

because when skif enters the zone there are parts of him that "want" any of the 4 endings (its more complicated with streloks ending)

it just depends on which people skif is around and how they influence him

[winter mauve]

I don’t know, that’s almost to easy that in one case the game tells you « everything Scar saying is true, the C Cons did survive, Subtle Matter exists » and all other paths saying « it was just dumb holograms », making your way to think Spark is a big lie.

The player shouldn’t write the story but following it. Someone mentioning Matrix with the pills. I mean even Neo, The Chosen One isn’t the miracle of the story, he has been programmed, designed to be the person he is at the end, as a plan of the Oracle since the beginning.

[jagged hull]

i dont think its a copout its just how scar's ending works

[winter mauve]

The fact Skiff writes the story of the Zone, even the rules, the lore of it, that is what I critize a bit

[jagged hull]

i dont think thats bad thst they involve the player, it enriches the story quite a bit

skif's ending doesnt have the same impact when you dont have the 3 other endings side by side with it

[winter mauve]

There is also the fact that the 4 paths leading to the 4 endings are less differences than the 5 endings of the first game :

[jagged hull]

i completely disagree but go on

[winter mauve]

In SoC, the endings were : Lie lie lie (wishgranter) being part of the lie (joining the C) or destroying the lie (kill the C)

In HoC the 4 endings are more equal

As keep the zone safe (strelok), destroy the zone (ward), illusion the zone (spark), spread the zone (skiff)

[jagged hull]

i mean if you simplify it like that sure theyre similar

but gameplay wise the endings are different enough and apart from the simplification theyre pretty different

[winter mauve]

Oh I will ask to be informed and being wrong as the end 😇

[winter mauve]

Oh sure « goal isn’t the end point, it’s the journey »

[jagged hull]

thats not my point

the ending sequences themselves have a lot of differences

and the substance of the endings is also very different

like the strelok ending is completely unlike any other ending where skif doesnt get anything out of it at all because he outsourced his critical thinking to strelok

[winter mauve]

My first ending choice, discovering the game, was Strelok because I believed in his views on the Zone and more canon to me as he’s the main Stalker character, and Skiff is just the secondary character of the game at the end, Strelok finishing his story by entering in the pod of eternity

But I love for proposing a story that involves so much from the past and making something new because when first Stalker game released, I was 10 years old lol. I never played them before STALKER 2

That’s my bias

[fossil depot]

Strelok's ending is just irony defining itself.

[fathom veldt]

same here, not all paths are true, just like before in SoC, there were a false ending; but other paths also might reveal about stalker universe; think of it as a perspective or an opinion

[vital pollen]

Where are we getting the year 2021 as the year of game’s events from?

Is it actually stated anywhere in-game?

We see calendar in the intro, but do we assume Skif makes it to the Zone right away?

[fierce ibex]

i also did streloks ending first but i didnt like just sealing up the zone forever and kind of condemning all stalkers currenty in it to survive only off of it
to me living in the zone always requires resources from the outside like someone else to send in cans of tourists breakfast and many of the creatures are unnatural as they were mutants made in labs that have somewhat assimilated to the ecosystem - the zone is a bad and unnatural place

streloks ending reminds me of the dark souls games with the ending choice to relink the flame, all that effort just to protect the decaying status quo, one day someone will come to the generators and potentially make the same choice to keep the status quo or finally end the stagnations

i personally like fausts ending as it ended the story of all these characters and allowed for some change to be made in the zone

i think it would be super cool if a stalker 3 was made outside of ther chernobyl zone and was like set in an anomalous sectioned off part of kyiv or something

[vapid spire]

Wonder if traders would find a way to bypass strelok's anomaly barrier to still smuggle supplies in.

[winter mauve]

that would be a pretty courgaeous choice to step outside the CNPP

But another STALKER world appering in a no man land as the Zone, good luck finding one

Like maybe Fukushima ?

USA's Area 51 ?

but surely a place of worldwide mysteries, military secrets

And the big strenght of GSC is telling their own story thru Chornobyl

But like DLCs and massive expansion packs for STALKER 2, I buy that for 4-5 years easily

The Zone as its exists today, and promissing places with Limansk, the CNPP itself and maybe new exclusive places

No need of a STALKER 3 for now

[jagged hull]

i dont see why the calendar would be put there if that was the case
also in 2022 the full scale invasion of ukraine began and that obviously affects the zone quite a lot since it was part of the frontline for a time. gsc wouldnt try to write that out of history for their own universe since thats just seems wrong

[deep forum]

I am hoping for a prequel and sequel to Stalker 2 just like we got one for SoC. In my mind it makes sense to keep the "3 games are a Stalker". Would allow us to explore Richter's failure in the prequel and the aftermath of Skif's action in the sequel

[jagged hull]

also im 99% sure that the full scale invasion starting in 2022 is the main reason why the game doesnt take place in the present

[deep forum]

Is there an exact time known when the ward entered the zone?

[jagged hull]

theres no exact time but the year is 2014 most likely

d4 treaty was signed in 2014 and its said that ward's first course of action was to force a ceasefire between the factions

[late falcon]

There is also Skif's Diary, the very first note in the PDA, which states 2021.

[jagged hull]

i completely forgot that had a date attached lol makes sense

[late falcon]

It was signed in 2013

[jagged hull]

oh shit yeah

[deep forum]

Yea, I thought that <= d4 treaty is a given, but it is crazy how quickly they were able to force d4 after entering, no?

I mean: this initial take over was super successful

[late falcon]

I guess they took over the Zone by force, as illustrated by what happened at the Chemical Plant

[deep forum]

Because CoP ends at ~August 2012.
So they get Strelok out, ~2013 Ward enters, so much pressure the factions surrender to d4
2014 Rostok -> Freedom
Skadovsk -> Sultan
Neomonoliths
2017 Strelok left Sircaa at some point and stopped X11
2020 Shevenchko -> Beard

After d4 everything is VERY stable until HoC...

[deep forum]

Sure, but if chemical plant was a unique event, I don't think it would be of big impact unless Spark was a lot bigger back then
And not sure how much time Spark had to grow in that short time. I am not even sure whether Chemical Plant happened before d4, but I might be missing information. It is at least heavily implied by Scar

[patent wagon]

I’m kinda disappointed in how basically all the endings suck but to me I think Streloks ending is the best

I don’t agree with condemning all the Stalkers to die like you said but I’m sure there’ll be a time where the Stalkers find a way out

I think the best route is to just never start down below therefore not being forced to follow an ending, I think doing what the Doctor asks is just as immoral

[late falcon]

I believe it did happen before the treaty and was one of the reasons the other factions signed. They saw what happened to those who did not comply and chose to not take their chances with the Ward. Also, I think the Treaty gave every faction something that they wanted, be it territory or otherwise, so they went along with it. For example, Freedom got Rostok, Duty got a base closer to the center, Noontide got a whole island for their own sanctuary.

That's just my personnal interpretation though, we don't know exactly how things went down.

[deep forum]

Makes sense. I never thought about it, but Duty moving closer to center is definitely something they don't mind...

[late falcon]

Oh and I forgot the Corps, they got Prypiat and the right to close it off

[fossil depot]

NGL, Duty basically got the opposite of Yaniv. Both equally close to the CNPP.

[fossil depot]

I still don't get why the Corps signed the treaty; Degtyarev is military and IPSF patrols the area...like...if anything, they and the Ward would be on the same side (before S2).

[fossil depot]

Best ending is Ward or Kaymanov's, NGL.

[fossil depot]

I mean, the Ward is a PMC with unlimited resources (including government backing, obviously). And unlike the prior military, they're NOT incompetent and can't just be bribed as much as the prior ones.

The Ward does NOT phuck around, and Korshunov is basically the Joker from The Dark Knight.

https://tenor.com/view/some-men-just-want-to-watch-the-world-burn-the-dark-knight-batman-alfred-michael-caine-gif-17887713267462629769

And he WILL burn everyone in the Zone if he has to, no questions asked.

[jagged hull]

why would they not sign the treaty? a ceasefire between the main factions is beneficial to their goals not to mention them getting control of yaniv

[fossil depot]

Because the Ward, IPSF and Degtyarev are all government-backed groups. Same side in terms of conflict.

Yes, I know Ward is a PMC, but SIRCAA is funded by the government as much as private entities, so still counts.

[jagged hull]

thay does not answer my question? what does the corps have to lose if d4 is signed

either way the corps is most definately not government backed only degtyarev is. the corps is made up of mostly mercs it seems

[fossil depot]

Because there's no reason why they'd sign?

[fossil depot]

Corps has IPSF in it.

[jagged hull]

apart from getting a ceasefire and control of the one area they care about?

i really dont understand what youre getting at. if they have some sort of government support it doesnt mean that they dont want to be on good terms with neighboring factions lol

being sigma alpha wolves who go against the grain isnt beneficial to them

[fossil depot]

I don't get how it's not obvious.

The Corps, the Ward and the IPSF are on the same side, so this would be like the Navy trying to get the Air-Force and the Army to sign a treaty, which is nonsense.

Because they're on the same side and under similar authority.

[jagged hull]

how do you think peace treaties in ww2 were signed

it wasnt just the US and germany. all of the major allies were involved

[fossil depot]

That was different countries.

SIRCAA is funded majorly by the Ukraine government, and Degtyarev is part of the USS.

Why would one government department make another government department sign a treaty?

[jagged hull]

and no, corps being alligned with ward in certain aspects doesnt mean that they wouldnt need to sign a treaty of some kind

[jagged hull]

degtyarev =/= the corps

[fossil depot]

Degtyarev leads the Corps. Like...what even...?

[jagged hull]

the corps personnel are not hired by the government

they are still viewed as illegal stalkers by the law

[fossil depot]

Corps personnel includes IPSF. Degtyarev having his own group doesn't mean the group isn't a government group.

[jagged hull]

nothing points to corps being directly funded or controlled by the government

[fossil depot]

There's no confirmation on whether they're stalkers or USS/military soldiers.

[jagged hull]

seeing as they act like mercs and dont have ranks in their names like the ward, duty and ipsf i really doubt theyre military

[fossil depot]

Again, I told you 3 times, IPSF patrols Yaniv; there's corpses of the IPSF soldiers in Pripyat and Degtyarev is a military colonel.

If that doesn't express that they're basically a government group, IDK what does.

Now, granted, there'd be exceptions (like Bolero or the trader or the guide or the guy at Yaniv who controls the station in Degtyarev's absence)...that they might be stalkers and not military, but again, there's no confirmation, so one can safely assume they're part of the USS/military.

You simply don't patrol Pripyat (after CoP) without some government entity observing, and the Corps are that entity.

And again, SIRCAA (and Ward) forcing a treaty on them is like the Navy forcing a treaty on the Air Force and Army. It's nonsensical to the core.

[jagged hull]

there is a reason why the ipsf and corps are completely separate factions. if the goal was for them to just be government alligned, degtyarev would just be an IPSF colonel and that would be the end of it. but what we see in the game is not that. if them just being an arm of the government was the aim im pretty sure the writers wouldve seen this coming and wouldnt have bothered to make up a whole new faction

[jagged hull]

"forcing a treaty" is an interesting choice of words since they lose nothing by agreeing to it

yaniv is taken away from freedom and they get to seal off a sizeable chunk of the zone for themselves, meanwhile half of the organized factions in the zone have no right to attack them

also arguing that ward and corps are "on the same side" is baffling to me since the corps is ordered to literally shoot at all ward personnel in the endgame lol

not only that, skif is immediately shunned by degtyarev for even siding with ward and is not welcome in the palace of culture after the first meeting between him and degtyarev

[fossil depot]

The Corps are that new faction...

Degtyarev is NOT an IPSF colonel because the IPSF is an international military force, whereas Degtyarev is USS.

So yes, they're not a literal arm of the government, but certainly affiliated with it.

[fossil depot]

Except there's no reason why. The Navy, Air Force and Army are all government entities; they don't NEED treaties, to start with. Treaties are between parties with different rulers, not the same one.

[fossil depot]

That's not how it works; Degtyarev is not someone who wants a 'piece of the Zone' like the Sultan/Freedom/Duty/anyone else.

They're protecting and isolating, not owning. Just like the IPSF and the Ward.

[fossil depot]

Yes, the end-game. Of S2.

Ward has been there since 2013-2014. You realize the difference, right?

[jagged hull]

oh cool so theyre basically arms of the same organization but as soon as something goes a bit wrong its all good if they just kill eachother

[fossil depot]

Except Skif is also the guy who saved Degtyarev's butt from being overrun by the Monolith.

And by the time of S2 (post-SIRCAA), a LOT has changed.

[jagged hull]

yeah that sounds about right

[fossil depot]

Yes, a lot has changed IN A FEW DAYS.

Ward has been around since 2013-2014. That's 7 years vs. a few days.

The Corps and Ward end up on opposing sides because they end up with different goals due to the events of S2 that take place over a few days and change everything.

That does NOT mean that the Corps and the Ward have been enemies for 7 years AT ALL.

[jagged hull]

im not implying that

but they mustve not been great friends if they decided to break a ceasefire like freedom and duty did

also their goals have always been different. if the corps is a sister organization to sircaa, im pretty sure theyd have some semblance of what they plan to do, which is erasing the zone and degtyarev is pretty clearly against that

[fossil depot]

More like both sides reacting to an existential threat. That's when everything dissolves and it's every party for themselves.

Besides, Freedom and Duty aren't even in the same league; they break the treaty because they want to play children's games, whereas the Ward/SIRCAA wants to control the Zone and Degtyarev wants to destroy the STALKER program, both of which are miles above any factional thing.

[jagged hull]

this might be a stretch but maybe if degtyarev doesnt even try to negotiate and just starts bombing the troops on the ground theyre actually not working for the same country

i really dont see how theyre on the same side if as soon as things break down (which is exactly when different branches of government are meant to cooperate the most) theyre enemies

even the IPSF troops magically get dismissed from malachite as soon as the shooting starts. everything seems fine between ward and ipsf

[fossil depot]

Yes, but the IPSF DOES patrol Yaniv, Jupiter and Pripyat. With the Corps.

And I got an explanation to that in 2 parts.

First part, again...Degtyarev is willing to fight the Ward because he doesn't trust Korshunov. As seen in the story, Dalin's trying to actually live up to SIRCAA's actual goal (researching and harnessing the Zone for the betterment of man-kind) but he's being blind-sided by Agatha and the Board (and Korshunov seems to know a great deal more than Dalin, meaning they've got their own plans).

Which is why Degtyarev trusts Dalin (to an extent) but not Korshunov and is willing to attack the latter without hesitation, because he knows that the Board does not care for any government authorities and will pursue their own goal.

The second part of that explanation is that lore's missing and it's GSC's fault. And so, I got no more answers beyond that one.

[jagged hull]

so which is it. is the board a completely independent organization that kills army personnel or are they alligned so well with the government that the army are their buddies but they still shoot them

[fossil depot]

More like the Board takes money from both the government and private entities and basically tells them what they want to know so the money keeps flowing while doing their own agenda in the background.

Though SIRCAA (legally and financially) would be a government organization for the most part.

[jagged hull]

that seems closer to the truth but i dont see where them being representatives of the military come into play

[fossil depot]

I didn't say they were representatives of the military?

[jagged hull]

thats essentially what youre saying with the whole army air force analogy

[fossil depot]

No? That's an analogy to make an example (that government departments don't do treaties with each other because they're government departments with the same overlord).

The UK's NHS and the Royal Air Service don't do treaties with each other, for example.

'Cause they're on the same side by default. Different government departments, different everything, but SAME GOAL overall (of keeping the country running in different ways).

[jagged hull]

what overlords do the regulatory board and by extension the ward have in common with the corps?

yes sircaa is funded by the government at least partially (at the very least theyre given favourable conditions to conduct business) but the government has little to do with the internal affairs of the ward and vice versa

[fossil depot]

• The Board doesn't. SIRCAA does. Which is the government (since, as I said, they'd be legally and financially a government-funded organization because they're in the Zone legally).
• The IPSF is a joint task force, like the UN Peace-keepers, meaning they're also in the Zone legally.
• The Ward is SIRCAA's PMC (and they run on SIRCAA's money, which is government money), also legally.
• The Corps are led by Degtyarev (who's USS), have IPSF in their ranks and are also there legally.

All 4 entities have government in common. Simple as that. Everyone except SIRCAA/Corps/Ward/Malachite/IPSF are illegal residents. And you don't get legal residency without government approval. You don't protect and patrol Pripyat without government approval. You don't get that close to the CNPP without government being involved.

And that also explains why it's Duty that's the closest to the CNPP (along with the Corps) and not Freedom...because they're all ex-Military and co-operate with them. Which I bet they still do, hence they being the other choke-point to anyone trying to get to CNPP.

Because as much as Duty's declined, they can still hold their own.

Ignore edits; just trying to make it look readable.

[jagged hull]

what we see in the game conflicts with what you wrote about sircaa, the dynamic between the ward and sircaa is a bit more murky. ward acts mostly independent of sircaa, theyve been in the zone for longer than sircaa (otherwise theyd have little reason to butcher most of spark in the chemical plant) and most likely were hired only after the plans for a sircaa institute in the zone were drawn up. their identities only got tied together after sircaa was established. the dynamic between dalin and korshunov describes what the dynamic between the 2 organizations is; dalin is at the mercy of korshunov and mostly has to do as he says. as for where agatha fits into this, she uses the ward's proximity to sircaa to influence their activities and mostly relies on people loyal to her to do her work

herman is a good example of the last point, agatha personally decides to keep him around after he's gone rogue since she knows that he can easily be manipulated

also cop endings mentions sircaa being founded by the government so my idea of them being tolerated by the government is mostly wrong

the ward's influence is likely what got strelok to leave sircaa, he saw the writing on the wall early and had the capability to go rogue

tldr sircaa and the ward have separate histories and work together due to corporate meddling in government affairs

the reason why i think the regulatory board is unlikely to be behind both sircaa and ward is that sircaa would just have its own force instead of a corporate army that tries to create its own view of order in the zone

[misty anvil]

Does anyone know why strelok and scar are able to survive seeing the tv screens again? Because in the game strelok says that agents cant see the screens again but him and scar are agents so how is he not dying like dark did?

And scar was sitting in that room full of the screens and he was perfectly fine so how was he not dying because his programming wasnt messed up like streloks was

[deep forum]

Inductive argument but:

• Scar has known level 5 psi protection and was reprogrammed at least 2 times. He therefore must be able to survive the screen.
• Strelok's programming was off and didn't really work. Maybe the effect was not there for him? In any case we can also assume that he has level 5 psi protection, too, because isn't that a requirement for going into the pod alone?

[misty anvil]

I didnt even think about that last part about psi protection

Is it mentioned anywhere that he gained it or anything because I feel like these are almost plot holes

[late falcon]

I agree with your points, except for Strelok having class 5 psi protection. The reason he can go in the pod alone is because he replaces the broken variometer at the center of the machine with the Heart of Chornobyl.

[deep forum]

ah! I missed that detail. I only got the Project Y ending and looked up the rest and remembered that Scar is preferred over Skif by Agatha due to Psy 5 resistance.

Makes sense that Strelok and Skif used something to circumvent that issue; namely the Heart of Chornobyl.

Thank you!

I will then fall back to: His programming was botched hence he's able to survive the screens

[knotty basin]

Does Duty have the best map of the Zone or is there a better one somewhere else?

[wind fog]

As much as I like the new zones layout, a little part of me wishes they could’ve made the old continuity work

[feral linden]

same

but atleast the new zone is somewhat accurate to rl

[winter mauve]

Ok ok
I just finished the game a second time and I absolutely reject my first views on the endings paths I explained 2 dys ago @fierce ibex @jagged hull

[jagged hull]

this is regarding strelok's ending being your favourite?

[winter mauve]

I did Kaymanov ending and Strelok still la favorite because it is very close to STALKER dark mood and sad ending are about

But regarding the lore, subtle matter, it changed : in fact I learnt that even Subtle Matter exists, it is at least explained so far as a mind prison

The signature ships and the Noosphere act the EXACT same way the bioships in Cyberpunk2077

[jagged hull]

its overall similar

the noosphere is a bit more ethereal though

the overall dynamic around what people believe regarding the concept is similar as well, to arasaka's customers the soul prison is exactly what they want but to others its a nightmare

[winter mauve]

I came to the conclusion Subtle Matter, exists as mind iCloud saves or being illusions thing, need to be destroyer

Because, considering the visographs scenes with the Representative (in Malachite or Fundation) is an iCloud save of their mind, the second scene where Dalin explaining at Fondation all the plan around Scar was a B-plan since the beginning for C-Cons and being the mediator, to me it makes sence anyways. Except if, I didn't pay attention to this, if Dalin mentions SIRCAA and Ward in his speeches, due to C-Cons killed before even SIRCAA and Ward being created

else, the theory about subte matter doesn't exist is more true and the visiograph is just AI x psi-emitters. But wouldn't be explain as Faust's scene where he shows Skiff the energy vision of the Zone. But could be a last stand when he did his last Controler Power on Skiff right before dying

[neat zephyr]

is there a discord or youtube channel I can follow the ARG developments?

Or should I just wait til its over

[jagged hull]

i think the scene with strelok in the oasis kind of explains the one inconsistency you mention. psi emitters can shift perception, make you see what you want to see. its exactly the same with visiographs. theyre not real people, theyre ideas of people and observers project themselves onto them

[winter mauve]

That would explain the first Representative encounter, when Scar is looking for them and listening instructions due to his wishes are actually C-Cons wishes

[jagged hull]

psi illusions dont have the same limitations as the ones that we are familiar since they use the observers brain to fill in the blanks

[jagged hull]

it also fits with what we see of strider in orbita, its a projection of skif onto what he thinks strider is, and with the help of the noosphere he can get access to strider's own memories to fill in the blanks

this angle focusing on subjectivity is pretty interesting but i think its buried too deep beneath pseudoscience technobabble to have much impact

[winter mauve]

yeah it falls into more Cyberpunk things. I remember when in The Ascent, you enter in the sci fi dimensions when it involves controling space black holes

when the topic goes a little too far

[jagged hull]

i havent heard of the ascent

[winter mauve]

My fav Cyberpunk game even a little ahead of CP2077

[jagged hull]

i dont think that this is too far out of stalker's territory

[winter mauve]

yeah sure but it would cut too harshly from the narrative of "the player builds its own wtory"

[jagged hull]

the game always had these underlying themes built into it regarding how our thoughts affect the real world its just that the storytelling was a bit too simplistic

[winter mauve]

I just hope the dev are aware of all / most of the blank points we all discuss about here

and they laugh hard watching us debating on things they all know about

[normal drum]

Youtube channel Vatislavovych

[neat zephyr]

Thank you!

[silent seal]

I gotchu, I have been compiling ongoing googledocs master overview as well as have unofficial discord server going for ongoing discussion with like ~35 of us so far, check this message for links #☢┃stalker-general message

[feral linden]

why did spirits men leave him to die?

i dont understand it

[normal drum]

He was already mortally wounded. His men bury him when he dies.

[feral linden]

but how was he mortally wounded

like , i dont see how he wasnr saveable

[smoky hornet]

He was mauled by the Snorks that were there before the Monolithians pulled up, he literally tells you this to your face

[hearty verge]

the game didn't show any mortal wounds strangely, maybe though his guts were spilling out under his arm there or something

[deep forum]

Stalker games never did. Makes the separation between medkit healable and basically dead difficult. At leas CoP has a similar moment.

[tepid osprey]

With Skif’s ending being the canonical one as of now, and with how it sets up zones outside of Chornobyl, what in all likelihood would be the setting for the next game?

[kind perch]

MMO where you travel between the various zones (assuming it's not fully global)

[tepid osprey]

@uneven orbit crypto scam bot please banish thanks

[pure trench]

IMO I feel like the Strelok ending is the canonical ending

But that’s just me

[tepid osprey]

The Skif ending was confirmed to be the canonical choice.

[pure trench]

NOOOOOOOOO

[pure trench]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-manga-anime-cry-anime-girl-cry-tokyo-ghoul-gif-6120667758038107021

[jagged hull]

where?

[brave iris]

honestly cant wait for a source

[kind perch]

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-rising-metal-gear-rising-revengeance-senator-armstrong-revengeance-i-made-it-the-fuck-up-gif-25029602

[vapid spire]

You could probably make dlc with the strelok ending if you still wanted to play as skif.

[winter mauve]

Well the end tends to do as Cyberpunk 2077. The end is the end, but they are some alternatives that will be created

Just by the text saying NO TURNING BACK during the last mission

[feral linden]

and how is that not saveable

[smoky hornet]

Hm, how is a devastated skeleton, torn and shredded meat and possible gunshot wounds from the Monolithians not saveable

Gee I wonder

Also rad exposure because red forest

I’m more impressed the dude stayed alive that long

[normal drum]

"Tis but a scratch!"

[smoky hornet]

I’d honestly put getting mauled by a Snork in the same category as getting attacked by a Komodo dragon, nasty ass saliva included

Getting bit by a normal human is treated as a medical emergency, I can’t even imagine the unholy havoc a Snork bite would wreak on you

[fossil depot]

Me who casually gets insane radiation from the fake map borders only to inject myself and survive without an issue be like...

[fossil depot]

https://tenor.com/view/stalker-2-korshunov-gif-14099276558992342290

Skif was no worse for the wear. 😏

Exo-Skeleton powered arm, BTW.

[smoky hornet]

Yes, because two to three glancing hits is the equivalent of getting jumped by a pack

[fossil depot]

May I introduce you to the Snork cave in Zaton near Stingray 3?

[smoky hornet]

Realistically Skif would’ve died from the pressure wave hurling him into a rock face first but we’re talking about Spirit, not Skif

[fossil depot]

Right, but I mean...Skif goes through a shit-ton through the game, but is intact as hell.

Spirit could've done better, but plot armour and plot death are both...things.

[smoky hornet]

Because Stalker has never been realistic with protagonist durability

Scar can eat two emissions but suffers from jaw dropping hemophilia and bleeds to death from a scraped knee

Strelok can fall from dozens of feet and only have his ears ring

Deggy can knife fight everything and everyone in the zone, shrug off bloodsucker grabs and other crazy shit

Hell, Skif takes a serrated knife directly in the shoulder joint, rips it out and still has full mobility and strength

[fossil depot]

True, true.

Wait, you can bypass Bloodsucker grabs in CoP?

[fossil depot]

True. Usual protagonist invulnerability to actual wounds (because it wouldn't be a game otherwise).

[kind perch]

More that they aren't instant death

[fossil depot]

Interesting. I should do the trilogy again, NGL.

[vapid spire]

Bloodsuckers were easy in the og games.

Stalker 2 made them an actual threat.

[fossil depot]

Mostly from the crappy stun-locks, not genuinely threatening.

[deep forum]

Yea, I really don't like their implementation. I think the ability itself makes sense though

[fossil depot]

Agreed.

[winter mauve]

Is it reported that there is a teleporter in the underground levels of Prypiat’s « industrial hospital no126 » ?

Can’t post pic or videos but there is the same half-sphere building behind a door than when you jump in Strelok teleport anomaly and arriving in the middle of the half-sphere thing

[proven wolf]

Genuinely threatening would be, silent, invisible hunters until they pounce. No silly scream giving their position away... Just silence, hiding in a the reeds and bushes... Maybe following you for hours, waiting for the perfect moment, and boom, game over...

Kill them in a shot or two, but if they get hold of you, ya mince meat.

You will soon walk around with gun up, checking every corner...

[final loom]

I saw that and I was surprised when non of the endings took us there.

[winter mauve]

DLC content ? Dev room ?

[final loom]

I've done some scouting inside, not a dev room, prob some cut content. I really hope it's used in some DLC, or a new quest.

What about the Pripyat-1 Underpass? I didn't see it being used in 3/4 endings, I still didn't go all the way with Ward ending, does it appear there?

[jagged hull]

nope

[fossil depot]

I mean, there have to be compromises, since it's a game (and no, one-hit kill is not a good game mechanic under any circumstances), but the rest makes sense.

Actually, this reminds me of Half-Life, you know...Barnacle tentacles (like Bloodsucker tentacles) tend to wrap around a victim's neck and Freeman avoids them because of the collar on his HEV suit that doesn't allow for it (explaining why he doesn't die upon being hooked, meaning the Barnacles have to actually drag him up and kill him manually).

Could be an upgrade on the clothes and armour worn by stalkers to avoid a one-hit blood sucking and death, NGL.

The rest of your argument is agreeable (silence, stalking, waiting). That'd be far more psychological horror than physical and I'd take that, NGL.

[fossil depot]

That half-sphere is the teleporter and yea, you can see that if you go down to the lowest levels. There's 3 Bloodsuckers on the upper levels (the level that connects both sides of the hospital), but once they're taken care of, you can go down to the very underground and find the teleporter behind the locked door yourself.

[elder bobcat]

Except you're not locked, just stunned. You can move, heal, eat, reload, swap attachments, open the inventory — virtually anything. The only one getting locked in place during the stun-scream is actually the bloodsucker performing it, hence why from a player's perspective this is actually a good implementation of the mechanic. The real problem with it is that once there are more than 2 bloodsuckers, when it's 3-4 attacking you simultaneously, said good mechanic turns into annoying spam, which can & pretty much has been fixed by reducing the amount of bloodsuckers spawning.

[fossil depot]

Uh...you are locked? When the Bloodsucker drops you on your butt, you're left vulnerable. Same thing when the boars run you over or the moose drops you, or the Pseudo-Giant's stomp drops you...

You can't do shit till Skif gets up and he's down again if there's multiple enemies around.

[elder bobcat]

For a whole of 2 secs & is a walk in the park to dodge once you make it clear for yourself they can't be interrupted by anything but a killing shot whilst flying towards you. I've observed nearly 14 different walkthroughs in all these months, and for some reason people just keep taking the "double axe handle" to the face, instinctively thinking a couple of counterblasts will disrupt the attack, but obviously it just never happens. Hence why the only right option is either to dodge or shoot back with a Gauss for good measure. There simply are attacks that are meant to punish carelessness, like in cases with boars, chimeras & now pseudogiants as well, you must avoid em instead of taking em headfirst & then complaining about the mechanic that's meant to be approached differently.

[fossil depot]

Yea, except dodging is not always viable and the moment you do, they go invisible again.

And IDK about others, but their invisibility is good enough that you can't see them meaning there's no carelessness...to be careful requires knowing where the danger is.

Boars and chimeras can be seen, meaning you can be properly careful. With Bloodsuckers, you can't even see them, so how do you be careful?

[sturdy thunder]

A animal has never popped off and I stood there thinking 'Jesus, that shook me senseless!' So off course the army vet will totally have that reaction... It's not like the shockwave from a grenade... Oh wait. A lion can roar, a elephant can have his little hissy fit. It's getting shot at, simple as that.

And the 3 bloodsucker pin jump is still BS.

[deep forum]

I see the roar lore wise as something like a psi wave that freezes you. I am fine with that to some degree. I dislike the implementation.

[elder bobcat]

Mate, bloodsuckers can be heard & their silhouettes are well visible in close/medium distances — you just gotta look a bit lower as in S2 they're approaching their prey running low. Open your eyes & ears and actually start paying attention as well as be patient in combat, that's how things become fun. I understand that everyone around is the videogaming GOAT & nothing could possibly be a skill issue, but when you can't bother to focus in combat — it may as well be.

[fossil depot]

You're saying as if it's the first time I'm dealing with Bloodsuckers...

This is after having constantly dealing with them spawning onto me every five minute (in pairs). I think I've fought enough of them to know how they work.

There's just not enough time to react and 'silhouette being visible' is only if you know where they are, when they can come up from behind you and drop you on your face. And after having installed Shay's Living Zone, I'm fighting enemies all the time, so...yea, I can handle combat.

[sturdy thunder]

Saiga or spitter, that's how I deal with them. Easy mode.

[fossil depot]

Yea, that works, though I gave up on shotguns in favour of the G36. Works against everything, NGL.

[sturdy thunder]

I could not get the G36 to work for me.

[fossil depot]

Why?

[elder bobcat]

You can't see bloodsuckers, you can't hear em, you have zero time to react to their "ultima" — but at the same time you know well how to deal with them in combat, having all the nuttу mods installed at that. For a change, try to learn something from all the frequent encounters you're facing with the mod instead of brute forcing the issue following Montenegro's definition of insanity, cuz bloodsuckers haven't been a problem at all for months since the spawn & HP pool fixes.

[fossil depot]

That's with updates; I'm using v1.1.3.

And, besides, G36 works. They scratch me a couple of times, but fully automatic with hollow-point ammunition works. Though, maybe, I should try AP rounds.

[elder bobcat]

Then it truly is a "you" problem after all.

[fossil depot]

Bloodsucker behaviour and strategies don't change with game updates, though. Health pool is not strategy, so that aside, of course.

But anyways...point being that the way they just throw you down on the ground is cheap rather than something that would be balanced with you getting a chance.

Dodging is fine, except they evade that by going invisible instead of you getting a chance to shoot them. And the silhouette is more of a pain to see than anything.

[sturdy thunder]

The Kharod exists? And it's right next to the free G36?

[fossil depot]

G36 has the drum magazine, though. Can't beat 100 rounds; very infrequent reloads unless you face groups.

[sturdy thunder]

If it wasn't for the late stage Dnipro upgrades, I would just use Dnipro's.

[sturdy thunder]

Uh? I did not know that.

[fossil depot]

It can be spawned in via console commands (or with the OXA modification).

That + Better Ballistics = game becomes much, much more playable. Though since they reduced mutant HP in later updates, IDK how that stacks.

[elder bobcat]

The behaviour did change quite a number of times with the targeting & anti-cheese tweaks. They're not the problem — your approach is, and having seen tons of people playing the game I can confirm there are people who pay attention & figure things out — and then there are people who expect the devs to tweak the rules in favour of each one's individual tactics. You've been given visual & sound queues, ability to make moves while getting hit with the scream, the HP for bloodsuckers has been reduced & their attack patterns have stayed the same for almost a year for players to learn — what else do you even need? This game is marketed as survival horror — miss the queue & get your аss handed to ya, fair play.

[sturdy thunder]

So me and AM are talking about a special encounter where the game drops 3 bloodsuckers on you. If you are well equipped, not a issue, off you go. But then the stars align and they consecutively do the jump attack and one hit you. It's been a issue since the game came out bud.

[fossil depot]

This game is marketed as survival horror...
I mean...you're treating me as if I'm a noob to STALKER...IDEK what to say to that.

They're not the problem — your approach is...
My approach is fine; I'm not new to the game and I'm not dealing with Bloodsuckers for the first time in my life.

You've been given visual & sound queues, ability to make moves while getting hit with the scream...
When they scream, you slow down entirely with no movement. Even if you're sprinting, Skif automatically goes down to walking speed and turning is completely eliminated.

And when they throw you down, there's no way you're just avoiding that flawlessly because their movement speed compared to your movement speed + the sounds and such is too fast.

[sturdy thunder]

I don't console or mod bud. Is the drum somewhere in the game or stuck in the point of no return?

[fossil depot]

No, it's not available otherwise. The drum magazine for the G36, the coupled magazines for the Saiga and the drum for the Groza/Malyuk (Grom/Dnipro) are only available via console commands.

IDK why they didn't make them accessible, but...well...

[elder bobcat]

That encounter is barely even happening since 1.5, I believe, that's the spawning fixes I've mentioned. If you have the mods putting constant mutant packs on your back — that's out of GSC's reach. As long as the aforementioned encounter doesn't happen few times a session — it's fine, tho it probably should be restricted to layers.

[sturdy thunder]

Wait?! Why am I in lore? I £@kkin' hate it here. Always some contrarian...

[fossil depot]

No, that used to happen even before I installed Shay's Living Zone.

Before SLZ, I'd get pairs of Bloodsuckers spawning onto me. After...well, I get Bandits.

But yea, I guess 1.5.

[fossil depot]

I guess the discussion pulled off somewhere out of lore while we remained in the channel.

Also, G36 with drum is like this.

Yes, the gun model's invisible, don't point it out.

[elder bobcat]

"No movement" is not the same as walking, is it? You ain't getting locked, I repeat — bloodsucker is tho. Step away, heal, reload, try to put a couple shots into a bastard — you're free to do all these things, how effective it turns out being is totally on your mind process & reflexes. Again, is not hard & done well enough to provide an actual challenge. "B-b-but he goes invisible" — yeah, no shit, it's bloodsucker, you thought he's gonna just sit & cry about you dodging him? That's a reset point: he fails the attempt, goes invisible & charges away to change the trajectory for his next attack — lots of time to patch yourself, change your position & focus on him approaching, he never performs the jumping takedown twice in a row unless you run away a good distance, then it just makes sense for him to do so. Unless you have a reaction speed of a sloth, I can't fathom how a focused man can miss a rushing bloodsucker with all the approaching sound queues & 2 secs it takes him to actually perform the takedown, it's time to hit the OSU then I guess.

[fossil depot]

One comment on the 'Bloodsucker throwing you down is cheap' turns into being schooled about how Bloodsuckers work.

Mate...I have dealt with Bloodsuckers all my STALKER life. I can kill them fine, deal with them fine, even at low health.

I'm talking about ONE mechanic, not the entirety of Bloodsucker strategy.

[deep forum]

I feel like the knockdown is both lore wise and mechanically fine. I feel like it is telegraphed well enough and avoided easily enough.

Would you prefer it being removed because it doesn't fit the lore, because it feels bad that you lose agency, because it hits too easily or?

[elder bobcat]

It's not cheap as it's well telegraphed & doesn't one shot you — welcome to actual advanced gaming mechanics where you get punished properly for mistakes. Do you think CoP's mechanic of taking the controls away from the player completely for bloodsucker to perform his lethal attack is better, by any chance? That's how it was done 15 years ago & is rudimentary, now it's done right via separating the minor effect of only having a movement speed decrease/aiming difficulties & major "ultima" knocking down those asleep at the wheel — both don't bring you down to 1 HP like CoP's mechanic once used to, btw. There was a problem of exaggerated spawning, which made it really annoying to deal with bloodsuckers comboing on players in general, but that problem is gone ages ago & now it's a pure challenge.

[fossil depot]

No, I'm saying that there should be a better way than a 5-second stun-lock.

If the Bloodsucker was stunned too (recovering from pushing you down) and you had a chance to put 2-3 bullets into it, it'd feel more normalized, since you're not left vulnerable with other enemies to pile on you. It'd be a lot better if Skif could, while down, pull out his gun and shoot the BS while it was recovering, then getting up after it runs off again.

But that's not the case. All you get is mowed down with NO way to retaliate.

Which is EXCEEDINGLY funny because Skif does it at the start of the game before Richter shows up...he's lying flat from being knocked out, he sees a blind dog and immediately pulls out his pistol to try to shoot that thing, except he's out of ammunition.

You can't do that with Bloodsuckers. And that's when your gun is held out. You can't stay down and shoot that thing as it runs off. No, you're just left defenceless.

[fossil depot]

...get punished properly for mistakes
There are no mistakes when something apparates ANYWHERE around you out of thin air and knocks you down with no time to react. No, that's just a massacre. And no, half the time, there's no audio/visual cues before it shows up in your face. The other half, it happens while it's jumping.

Now, again, updates might've changed the Bloodsucker behaviour, but I'd still prefer something more than the cheap trick of stun-locks.

[elder bobcat]

As someone who spent some time in wrestling school back in the day I can assure you — normal human beings need literally a second of recovering time after performing the "double axe handle", lol, mutated apex predators made in X-labs would need even less than a second to recover, there's no point in ever bringing it up. Player also spends a total of 3 seconds max on the ground after getting knocked down, zero point in all of these cutscene-inspired antics. You dodge — you win, you failed to dodge — you get punished, reset, repeat. Fair play.

[cold quarry]

has it not been the case for you where you could still aim and shoot while under the roar? this has been how I was able to deal with multiple bloodsuckers in S2

[elder bobcat]

Always has been, still is

[fossil depot]

Except in wrestling school, you can see your opponent to be able to dodge, you know? They're not invisible with barely visible silhouettes.

And again, if you're knocked down, you have the option to react with your legs, kicking them. Or blocking punches. Or sitting up and defending yourself. There's tactical options available in real wrestling.

[cold quarry]

ye having to dance around 3-5 bloodsuckers has put some good training on me

[fossil depot]

Nope. When they roar, all control is lost. If they're in front of you, you can still shoot them, if you can aim.

Otherwise (for me, at least), Skif slows down to a walking pace and I lose all ability to turn around.

[elder bobcat]

Yes, I could — and in the game I can see the bloodsuckers rushing at me, they're not "appearing out of thin air", that's just plain false.

[cold quarry]

no controls are slowed, not lost for me though that's what I'm trying to say, you are not all defenceless at least in my experience

[fossil depot]

Well, I guess you've got better vision than me, since I can barely see them around unless it's broad day-light and clear weather. Congratulations on the superior vision.

[fossil depot]

Well, they are for me; maybe updates changed that.

[elder bobcat]

"All control is lost" — lies. You can aim, shoot, reload, step away, heal, eat etc. Aiming is difficult, ofc, but possible — the rest is flawless.

[fossil depot]

Often, if I try to turn, Skif will turn in the other direction (so if I move mouse right, Skif turns left and vice-versa) when they roar.

[cold quarry]

no I've also seen day1 gameplay you can still aim

[fossil depot]

'Lies'...right, because I don't know how my game runs. Well...this has been interesting, but since we're going in circles, I'll digress.

[fossil depot]

Again, just saying how it is for me. Next time, I'll make a recording if possible.

[elder bobcat]

You do not, in fact, know how S2 works if you're seriously implying all controls are taken from the player during the stun-scream.

[cold quarry]

ye I can see how it would be frustrating since they do spawn often but I've learned to deal with up to 5 bloodsuckers at a time so ye gotta dance

[fossil depot]

Well, if you think IDK how the game works after 1200 hours put in it, then nothing will explain anything to you, so...well...you do you.

[elder bobcat]

Well, you're literally lying about the absence of any controlling during the stun-scream effect, so....

[fossil depot]

Yea, same here; I just let them come and wipe them with the G36 and hollow-points.

Easier in cramped areas, since I can just let loose.

[fossil depot]

I. Know. How. My. Game. Works.

After 1200 hours, I've dealt with everything, from rats to chimeras. I don't need to listen to this shit.

[elder bobcat]

I have no idea what "my game" is supposed to mean & why you're joining conversations about the combat with bloodsuckers in S2 if it's wildly different from what everyone else experiences. So FYI, in the publicly available Steam, GOG, Xbox etc versions of the game called "S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2: Heart of Chornobyl", players can aim (albeit with difficulties), shoot, reload, swap weapons, heal, eat etc (with no difficulties whatsoever) while being affected by the stun-scream of a bloodsucker. I highly recommend you checking out that game to experience this mechanic in action & see for yourself.

[fossil depot]

https://youtu.be/AQuOUlUjflc?list=PLxQIXNsEBnMmUxc_RZQ5ZK0HsoRhykGdV&t=4158

[cold quarry]

(i do wonder if it has to do with outdated game version and trainer since afaik it's not current patch/vanilla)

[fossil depot]

Time-stamped for how the roar works. I can barely move and aim does not work. Skif goes down to walk-mode and DOES NOT PHUCKING TURN!

That wasn't for you, BTW, Lx.

[fossil depot]

Trainer is just cheats, doesn't change AI behaviour. Game version, maybe, if they patched in later versions.

[elder bobcat]

(ofc it's a several months outdated version of the game with a bunch of mods messing all kinds of shit up & for some reason is being talked about as if it's how things supposedly work in vanilla post 1.5)

[cold quarry]

ye no worries, but I can see you can still aim and move during the roar (it's prob slow/hard to do since you also have low framerate)

[fossil depot]

Right, but that's the thing; under normal circumstances, I can aim just fine.

When the BS roars, my aim is like...uh...the PKM in Clear Sky. It's EXTREMELY difficult to turn, because Skif is completely locked in; there's no way for me to aim reliably when it happens.

And that's assuming the BS is even visible (within 30-45 degrees of my original aiming point). If it's anywhere outside or behind, there's nothing that can be done.

[jagged hull]

"All control is lost" is still a stretch tho since you can heal, reload, switch weapons perfectly fine

and its not like bloodsuckers overuse the attack as well

[fossil depot]

Yes, well, I'm talking purely about shooting; I'm aware that healing and all is possible.

Besides, my original complain was about the stun-lock (from being dropped) being a cheap trick; I never complained about the rest of the BS' mechanics.

[jagged hull]

i think fistz explained pretty well how it isnt that cheap

[fossil depot]

Yea, well, it feels cheap to me. Not just STALKER but stun-locks in any games feel cheap.

Lack of a way to retaliate against the enemy is just not that good a mechanic.

But anyways, I made my point and am exhausted, so I'll digress.

[jagged hull]

this isnt a stunlock its a stagger

besides you cant rly get attacked while getting knocked down

[fossil depot]

Roar is a stagger, yes. I was talking about the knock-down mechanic that's shared with the boars running you over, the moose (I think), the Pseudo-Giant slam and the Chimera leap.

[vital pollen]

heart of chornobyl

[fossil depot]

https://tenor.com/view/if-you-only-knew-strelok-talking-strelok-stalker-shadow-of-chernobyl-gif-14178968850344470020

[ornate venture]

tai_876539_t has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[spiral siren]

I always asked in the original trilogy what was that artifact and it took 15 years to reveal the name and its origin and function

[fossil depot]

Well, TBF, it was just an unknown artifact till S2...just something random as hell.

[proven wolf]

The sign of poor game development.

Don't know how to do it, right, just enemy spam... yeah that works.

[sturdy thunder]

The enemies don't pop in for me anymore, there was a spot near rostok I use to test it, but I do still get multiple bloodsuckers showing up. So I don't know if I am just unlucky with roaming enemies.

[proven wolf]

Yeah, I have seen them Spawn in front of me, scream, and just beeline me, as they know where I am.

At one point I had 5/6 of them spawn at the T junction south of Zalyssia, near the bus stop, at the turning that leads to the abandoned little village with statue and the blood suckers spawn.

Just utter garbage mechanics and lazy.

I have seen NPC's spawn right in front of me, one noticeable time, after defeating the Psuedogiant in Bloodsucker village, whilst exploring the stone building on the east side of the village.

It's just rubbish and lazy.

[jade furnace]

Damn, that's still a thing. I remember before the updates the most that I got jumped at once were 9 bloodsuckers.

[proven wolf]

happens all the time, I just get a string of them, things seem to pop-in in groups of 2 or 3.

It's all jarring and break immersion, so I just stopped playing the game.

I could care if they gave me NVG's, I just the world and game to make sense... Just tired and sick of this BS spawn simulator.

[sturdy thunder]

Yeah, I am use to getting 2 or 3. You guys getting more then that blows my mind.

[jade furnace]

They got a sniff of that weed

[fossil depot]

Reminds me of CoP and Pripyat's spawn points. 😔

[proven wolf]

And the spawn rates are insane... Go past the double warehouses out side of Zalyssia to the west, on the way to the refinery bit, with the electrical anomaly that sits on top of the Silo's...

Always, spawns fleshes, sometimes Merc's. Every time I leave Zalyssia, I have to kill them, then when I walk back 10 mins later, they are back again...

Spawn, spawn, spawn, spawn, because the devs messed up the development of the game, ran out of time, and gave us a zone with very little depth, just a story which is rubbish, 1 side quest in most of the zones, with Zalyssia and garbage being the most fleshed out.

So they compensated with a garbage spawn simulator.

It's poor, really poor.

But I am hoping that with the engine upgrade, we can actually get the A-life that was promised.

[proven wolf]

Hated that game, got as far as going through the tunnel, and gave up.

CS and SoC are the only 2 I completed.

Completed HoC, but drink 16 pints of mind bleach, to erase the story from my mind... People keep mentioning a guy called Skif, no idea who he is.

🤣

[fossil depot]

I actually got through till the final mission (which I never did).

But honestly, I'd changed the A-Life active radius to 600 metres (from the stock of 150).

So, there's this area near the Laundromat, a 'corner' of sorts, behind a shop. Now, since it's Pripyat, the Monolith spawn regularly, right?

I kill the first group, and nothing spawns for a bit. I move away and 5 Monolith soldiers spawn in right in front of my eyes. Right into each other as well before the game separates them.

I take them down, move away a few metres again and same thing happens.

Zaton and Jupiter were relatively normal, but Pripyat became a pain due to that, NGL. Still, it remained relatively normal besides that part.

[proven wolf]

It's awful and frustrating... Just spawning for the sake of spawning, to keep players occupied, because they think if nothing happens for 2 seconds, players will get bored...

Stalker is was never meant to be like this.

[fossil depot]

No, but this is what game development has become.

[proven wolf]

And it is a shame... Developers could and should be so much more, but everything is just so generic, must include everything that other games have, almost, no originality, then when something like S2 comes along, it's going to be a bit of fresh air and it's all borked. 🙁

[tribal onyx]

hey, im in need of some assitance understanding this, i met Scar, and after the convo, Star called me s snitch, why's that? and how is all that coming up to the ||unusual PDA|| and all the fuss about the scanner?

[ornate venture]

the_holy_bird has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[fossil depot]

Agreed.

[fossil depot]

Did you show the PDA to the Ward?

[tribal onyx]

yes

[cold quarry]

he called you a snitch because you showed the PDA to Ward and got the Ward badge, so by association Scar thinks you are siding with the Ward since Ward and Spark are against each other

[tribal onyx]

and why all the hate towards the Ward? why's the PDA so meaningful to both sides?

[cold quarry]

Scar will tell you that story in time..

[tribal onyx]

im excited even more now

confused - the same amount XD

[cold quarry]

the PDA is not meaningful in its own right, but by showing it to whoever it is an indication of "trust"

[fossil depot]

Play further; that's the point...to find answers.

[proven wolf]

Because they stole his base at the chemical plant.

[tribal onyx]

well i guess ill find out eventually

[tribal onyx]

did i get to that part yet? what chemical plant?

[proven wolf]

you will find out.

[fossil depot]

https://tenor.com/view/fafo-findout-fuckaround-fuckaroundandfindout-you-gif-26826252

And there will be a LOT of FAFO in the game. 😏

[jade furnace]

Wow a pigeon

Pigeons are cool

[spiral siren]

Ward are a bunch of bullies, they had to force their way on a peaceful STALKER faction that turned psycho, and now SPARK wants to achieve their goals even if others are affected by it (see the signal)

[fossil depot]

I mean...Scar was always out of his mind, though.

[jagged hull]

and scar has never been a spark member

[fossil depot]

Uh...?

[vital pollen]

it did not have one originally

it was just a random element that devs paid no attention to

i dont think gsc even took part in its design, probably just told plastic wax to make a magic rock or something lol

[shrewd igloo]

muh cool artifact muh epic scene

[jagged hull]

spirit, the only spark member left, denounces scar and new-spark, says that they are perversions of the original idea of the group

its all in a few pda entries, whatever scar's group is, it only carries the name of spark, without representing any of its goals, only animated by the idea of revenge implanted into scar's head

[fossil depot]

Ah...well, I was talking about the current Spark (since it was in relation to the Ward).

Scar deserved a better story, though.

[deep forum]

Scar's story is great. I really enjoyed it. I am just not too sure of the semi-related CS rework/interpretation.

The role of Scar itself is superb.

[fossil depot]

Yea, I mean that Scar himself deserved a better story and the current Scar could've been someone else (random NPC with Marshall's memories or even Dark himself).

[winter mauve]

Oh fun sound I may just discovered :

During the first meeting with the representative at Malachite, there is a sound in the background while the visiograph displays the C-Cons head that I suspect this is the SAME sound in Subnautica when you scan a thing

Ok, found ! Not scanning building base tool. Links to compared down below and time-marked

This sound : https://youtu.be/kDI_Yk7XfJM?si=nJiwRWZ2mJ_xMuNT&t=77

compared to this one : https://youtu.be/IZ7noisFX3I?si=uIP-X83o2Odu8wWy&t=312

I'm 90% sure it is the same FX sound. Is that easter egg ?

[final loom]

Is this a Morse code at the edges of photos posted with the recent announcement?

[little gazelle]

doesn't look like it really

[deep forum]

I am happy with his ending tbh. Since CS we knew that hew was fried. I would play a prequel to CS though, but I don't think we will see that.

[fossil depot]

Yea, but him being merged with Marshall = not something I'm a fan of. Strelok-like amnesia would fit better, but not this.

[deep forum]

I get it, but I think it is not a bad story.

[subtle drift]

I may be wrong but hear me out.

Main character (Skif) is mostly a blank state, and we (player) build his character while playing the game. The only thing we know about him is that he served in a military, got depressed and stayed at home mostly watching his TV.

I think that all player choices excluded, Skif would side with Ward. He comes into the zone with a goal to get his home back. He has already served in a military so Ward wouldn't be new to him. Ward is offering him exactly that. What do you think?

[silent seal]

My thoughts on that here, I actually felt the opposite #s2-lore-discussions message

[vapid spire]

If we're doing a prequel to a prequel, we might as well just have a stalker game when the zone first appeared.

[deep forum]

well, while we make the choices, we are not the only influence. Richter & Co talk alot. Hard to tell.

[deep forum]

fair 🙂

[slow cape]

I love being stunned locked to death because eight boars decided to turn me into a train

[sturdy thunder]

Yup, got jumped by a pack of boars and fleshes under chemical plant. I didn't save, so it was clinch @ss and fingers crossed I didn't get hit by four consecutive attacks.

[fossil depot]

IKR? That's why I feel the knock-down trick is cheap, since you don't even have the option to stay down but pull your gun out and shoot them.

Boars, moose, Bloodsuckers, Chimeras, Pseudo-Giants...they all cause the same problem.

[sturdy thunder]

When a pseudogaint appears, I put the game on easy and blast it. After the SIRCAA incident I no longer respect it as a game mechanic.

[fossil depot]

I use Better Ballistics, so mutants are relatively easier; still takes 4 magazines of 5.56.

[sturdy thunder]

I don't mod games.

[fossil depot]

Worth it; Better Ballistics makes the guns realistic, as they should be. Mutants become much simpler with that.

[marsh tree]

Is there an explanation for why the IPSF troops at Malachite are friendly with Skif?

[silent seal]

Would be great to have prone and then when you're knocked down you're just staying in it instead of Skif feeling like he has to get back up before he can shoot back

[fossil depot]

Exactly.

https://researchpress.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/shooting-back06.jpg

Just like this, you get knocked on your back, you just pull your gun and get to aim and shoot normally.

Get up by moving or pressing Escape.

https://content.instructables.com/FFB/25P5/J6MG92Y3/FFB25P5J6MG92Y3.png

The fact that Skif, a Marine, can't do this much is a skill issue.

[smoky hornet]

You chose quite frankly the goofiest possible pictures to prove your point

[fossil depot]

This isn't 'goofy', this is as real as it gets.

You can see Tom Cruise using it in Collateral.

[signal gazelle]

@fossil depot

[fossil depot]

What?

[signal gazelle]

Can you DM me

[fossil depot]

For what?

[smoky hornet]

Brand new account asking for DMs?

Hmm

[fossil depot]

Exactly. In the wrong channel as well.

[smoky hornet]

@vestal wolf Potential phishing account

[deep forum]

I am sure he's just trying to sell you real shard of the monolith

[ornate venture]

freeeagle has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[fossil depot]

I shall avoid.

[timid field]

Where does the arg go to after the tunnels in yantar? Or does it end there?

[jagged hull]

theyre just there to protect malachite since theyre the official security force of the zone and malachite is a government funded facility/organization. its probably assumed that anyone going to malachite works for them

[jagged hull]

i think in reality this would make the interaction feel a lot more clunky, as it would take longer to get back up. in 1 on 1 fights it may be useful but when there are more threats to deal with it could easily get players killed for no good reason

and if you wanna bring realism into this, i personally wouldnt be want to be stuck grappling on the ground against a bloodsucker, even less so a boar or a deer

[silent seal]

No, but I also would like to be able to get that low to the ground anyway. I think it's strange of them to omit the low crouch and then not just give us prone but nothing, personally think feels dated

[jagged hull]

eh low crouch was mostly out of place in the og games i can see why they took it out

ig it could be cool to have a prone option but i dont see myself using it a lot

maybe when using DMRs/bolt actions to reduce sway, but even then that would be sketchy because laying down in the grass would obstruct your view quite a bit

the pace of gunfights doesnt really accomodate for how prone is traditionally used. in the trilogy low crouch was somewhat useful due to the punishing weapon inaccuracy and insant switching between stances

i get your viewpoint of wanting more complicated systems in the game that bring it closer towards the milsim end of FPS mechanics but that really isnt the goal of the game, which is hard to forget when a significant part of the modding scene for the trilogy focuses on adding these mechanics

im a fan of some milsim games but in turn i dont really need that in stalker, i get my fill when playing squad or tarkov or whatever else i think of playing that leans towards the milsim side of the spectrum

[fossil depot]

It'd also be easy to get out of if you go prone; press sprint key and Skif immediately gets up without going through other motions.

[jagged hull]

this just ignores the realities of how animations are usually implimented

[fossil depot]

Things can always be worked out.

[patent cosmos]

i was confuse, why did skiff activated the wish granter & make noontide become monolith again

[jade furnace]

Dalin is the one who did that. Strider, Skif, and the rest of the gang wanted to stop that dummy from activating that thing.

[patent cosmos]

so basically dalin is evil who wanted to control the monolith once again?

or is this faust who had planned that all along & dalin is just his pawn

[jade furnace]

I can't remember much, it has been a while since I played. But Dalin and sircaa wanted the Zone so they can use it for the benefit basically. Not really controlling the monolith per say. He was just doing whatever was deemed necessary to achieve his goal.

[strong flume]

Basically the zone works in mysterious ways, just got past this and from what I can tell, depending on actions taken, Faust and Scar ||and Hermann in a way but he literally only provided the means, but I don't think he really cared nor thought of the ends|| both planned to kinda bring back the Monolith in one way or another, Faust to have a purpose again, and Scar to bring a little chaos to the Ward, Dalin just wanted to prove he knew what he was doing ||But also maybe reconnect with his father who was a part of C-consciousness|| and the Ward literally were just there to guard SIRCAA and had no idea which is funny cause the SIRCAA scientists also accuse them of knowing what's going on, while Strider genuinely wanted to stop it with Skif if you sided with him, in a last ditched attempt to stop Noontide from falling

[fathom veldt]

Dalin has some daddy issues, and did not wanted to follow regulatory board plans, No he wasn't a pawn of Faust

the pawn you talk about is probably about Ozersky

[fossil depot]

Dalin is not evil.

Dalin is completely unaware of anything done by the Board and Agatha + her backers.

He's basically being used as a pawn by everyone. Dalin is only 'bad' in the sense that he's slightly arrogant, but that's natural due to a person of his knowledge (as a scientist). Average flaw.

The REAL evil is Faust/Agatha/Board (in relation to this; not saying they're universally evil).

[fossil depot]

Ward doesn't have any idea. Korshunov does. And he has so much of an idea that he basically does the experiment himself in the Ward ending.

NEVER under-estimate Korshunov.

[strong flume]

Oh yeah Korshunov fooled everyone until the end if you sided with him, it's quite the emphasis on, "everyone in the zone has their own agenda, trust no one." I think the most trustworthy people in the zone were either ex Monolithians or Richter

[fossil depot]

I doubt Richter is any more trust-worthy.

[quick sun]

can anyone explain to me who controls monolith in the game, is it the wish granter if yes who controls the wish granter?

[normal drum]

Monolith is just a program, no one controls it in HoC (obviously cause C-Con and MDST died out). Without Faust as "The Voice of the Monolith" who has free will, Monolithians just follow the program of occupying as many territory in the north of the Zone as possible. The Wish Granter is a different installation.

[upbeat spruce]

would be interesting for lore idea for adding new guns maybe different arms dealers from other countries begin to sell there wears in the zone like from the USA, china, russia, germany and many more?

[quick sun]

||so this is spoiler territory but in the faust ending it becomes clear that faust is not dead, why didn't he just continue to control the monolith and order them to leave skif alone on his way to the generators or order them to help skif ?||

[normal drum]

||You're not in the non-spoiler channel || Faust is dead, his dead body is as real as the body of a dead pseudodog. What you've seen in Doctor's/Skif's ending happened in the Subtle World. Both Faust and Doctor were dead and also both of them never wanted Skif to claim the capsule, it was Skif's and Richter's idea alone.

[quick sun]

oh

when did skif and richter decide it is a good idea to claim the capsule to spread the zone all around the globe? must have missed that point

[normal drum]

They didn't, to make new Zones was Doctor's idea, he repeats it multiple times in his dialogues, it was achieved with Duga activating other Generators around the world. What Skif did, is that he saved and "freed" the Chornobyl Zone from human influence (there are debates if he did that only with the Chornobyl Zone or with the Noosphere as a whole), he didn't become its protector like Strelok because in his ending Skif's position align with Doctor's - the Zone can care about itself alone. Just look at the Dead Valley and how actively the Zone tried to kill Skif in the Ward's ending but didn't really touch him in the Spark's ending.

[quick sun]

I didn't know there were other generators around the world. Do we know anything about them, who built them? Also what is the difference between the zone or the noosphere, I thought those two were the same thing? My favorite ending was the spark one but I'd be lying if I fully understand it. Did it turn the whole chornobyl zone into zombies or the whole world?

[timber forum]

The zone is the manifestation of the noosphere in the tangible world. The zone is basically the exclusion area that was locked up by authorities after the first incident. The area ended up becoming the home of all kinds of secret projects and after discovering the existence of the noosphere, the X scientists wished to make contact with it with the aim of manipulating certain aspects of human existence. That ofc didn't go as they wanted and sparked the second incident which let to the creation of the anomalous zone. The noosphere rejected the meddling and manifested itself in that piece of land and ended up making disturbances.

Also, as far as I can recall, there is no other generators but the ones the C_Con built to communicate with the noosphere. Sircaa did try to manipulate the noosphere again, but I'm not quite settled on the nature of the tools they used. We only know about the Caribbean incidents and well, there were no generators involved. X tech didn't really leave the zone at most part, and the only generators are still there.

Antennas? Maybe

But not new generators

The connection that dalin was nagging about was all about antennas leading to the generators up north.

The signal was then hijacked by Faust (ofc because of scar) and led to the duga which was controlled by Faust and also had direct connection to the generators

[normal drum]

The Regulatory Board built them as the last step of the Project X, to use the anomalous energy from the Noosphere for a technological revolution. Imagine artefacts but which have only the upsides, or materials with unusual properties (plants that don't burn, self-repairing instruments etc, I'm bad at creating examples). As Dalin said, with those kinds of technologies they could even reach the outer limits of the Solar system and more.
The Noosphere itself is a sphere over the whole Earth, it is a huge psi-field that contains information (aka psi-radiation) about each intelligent being on Earth and the anomalous energy. The Zone is a result of a Breakdown that caused the anomalous energy and the information to "spill" to the physical world, creating anomalies and artefacts. It is not a literal hole, it's just that the barrier between the surface and the Noosphere is unstable, sometimes creating temporary openings (aka Emissions). The closest to the cleanest connection we've got is the Dead Valley.
The Spark ending is a philosophical one, it's about solipsism. "Reality is whatever you think is real" - Richter. From the perspective of the "real world" everyone in the Zone became zombies. But what is the "real world"? From the perspective of those who achieved the Shining Zone, they stepped onto an another level of existing. The ending is not about if this all are lies, "this is an illusion" etc., it's about what you accept as reality. About who exactly was affected, it's most probable that it was all of humanity, as the Representative promised. Nobody asked him to do it however but that's a different topic.

[normal drum]

There are Generators that are not in the Zone, a whole network of them, that is explained by Agata in the Chemical Plant and also discovered by the Journalist who tried to share it with the world before he was stopped by basically each side of the conflict arguing that it would cause a world war.
Therefore a logical conclusion that the Generators are not the installation which is used to manipulate with people's minds, only the O-CTA is. O-CTA works with the psi-radiation (aka information) and the Generators work with the anomalous energy.

This network of Generators was used by Doctor to create new Zones around the world.

[deep forum]

I still haven't understood 100% why doctor went from "we shouldn't try to 'clean' the noosphere" to "let's spread the zone!

I mean: it makes sense that he heals everyone aka "It didn't choose to exist, it's not at fault" but his reasons for spredding the zone are beyond me.

[normal drum]

For him, either no one or everyone should have access to the Noosphere, not the eight chosen ones who choose for others. The Zone is a way to naturally communicate with the Noosphere (again, the Dead Valley as an example), therefore creating new Zones gives more chances for people to develop. As he said, it's a test for humanity (similar to the Last Judgment, it's directly referenced by Faust in the final cutscene), will it be exterminated or will it reach the new level in which people would understand and forgive each other.

[deep forum]

Ah, so his main idea is to break the monopol. So not spreading the zone everywhere but giving everyone access to it. I see. To me it looked like it was spreading indiscriminately like a nuke carpet in the ending.

[robust laurel]

@normal drum @quick sun the only thing I would add from myself.

We can’t confidently say that “Skif didn’t know anything about the Doctor’s plan,” because lol, he saw Project Y, and on the way to Orbit he told Richter everything. So it’s clear they had an off-screen conversation about all this and most likely came to the same conclusion — that the Doctor wants to create new Zones. Meaning, assuming that Skif might not have known about the creation of new Zones isn’t necessarily true either.

You could argue, “Then why didn’t they ever discuss this plan in dialogue, and why was it off-screen?” Because the twist with the new Zones wouldn’t have worked otherwise. If that’s really the case, it’s the first time I’ve seen a cinematic trick in the game where the main character knows something the player doesn’t.

That is, I mean that Skif could have known about the Doctor's plan and could have gone with the intention of implementing it.

And the Doctor himself has repeatedly said what he wants, etc.

[robust laurel]

The Zone in the game has two meanings. People often confuse these two concepts, which leads to misunderstandings about what exactly is being discussed.

1. As explained above, there is the Zone in the material sense. It’s simply the result of anomalous energy.

2. There’s also another understanding — the “Zone as a phenomenon,” which includes the Noosphere. In other words, sometimes the concepts of “the Zone” and “the Noosphere” in the game can be equated. For example, this can be noticed in the dialogues with the Doctor. The Strelok perceives the Zone only as something material, whereas the Doctor sees it as something else. Roughly speaking, this represents a clash between the philosophies of materialism and idealism. (There’s also a philosophical conflict between the Doctor and Strelok concerning the concept of free will — but that’s another topic.)

So you are right in thinking that the Zone and the Noosphere are the same thing. However, you did not know that there are 2 understandings.

[ornate venture]

servig has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[spark bay]

To discuss this issue, I believe we need to return to the original film that the game pays homage to — Stalker.

Unlike the game, in the film Stalker, the "Zone" actually refers to a projection of the human psyche. It reflects the fears, desires, and true selves of those who enter it.

There are three characters in the film. The Professor believes that the room in the Zone that grants wishes should not exist and ought to be destroyed. However, when he finally reaches it, he gives up.

The Writer arrives at the room but chooses not to enter or make a wish.
Their suffering lies in the fact that they know there is a dark room inside their hearts, yet they do not dare to enter it.

They cannot bring themselves to destroy the room, but can only treat the Zone as a forbidden place. The refusal to face the truth becomes a persistent form of suffering.

So what is true suffering? Perhaps what director Andrei Tarkovsky wanted to express was this:The greatest tragedy in life is not “stepping into a dark forbidden zone,” but “wandering outside the door for a lifetime.”

You can see that even though the three characters leave the Zone, the Writer and the Professor — who did not enter the room to make a wish — do not seem more content or happy.

In other words, their inner darkness still affects them — such as guilt, or a deep sense of futility.
The Zone appears to be confined within a controlled space, yet it continues to influence them in ways they are unwilling to acknowledge.

Returning to the game, you can then understand why the Doctor believes that letting the Zone be free is the right thing to do.
Because everyone’s choices are merely attempts to control and lock away the Zone — turning it into a taboo we all know exists but are afraid to open up.

So why not try to face it with courage, and accept the darkness within ourselves?
At the very least, we can recognize our ability to confront the dark thoughts inside us.
Even though revealing our inner darkness in real life may come with a heavy price — just like how the ending of the game leads to unavoidable consequences.

But then again, just because someone is willing to accept and step into the "Zone," does that mean everyone else must also be forced to accept and coexist with it?
In the end, you could say that all of this was just the Doctor's wishful thinking.
His actions aren't all that different from the scientists of the original C-Consciousness project.
Even if his intentions were good, he still failed to respect each individual's right to choose whether or not to accept and enter the forbidden zone.

To be honest, I don't think the game has a truly 100% "good ending" — but personally, I think that's better than having a typical "true ending" in the traditional sense.

[robust laurel]

I think all the endings in the game are good ||for Skif||

[subtle drift]

Nah ward ending isn't that good for him bro becomes c-con agent

[robust laurel]

C-con?

What?

I think you don't fully understand who agents are.

And how they work

They do not lose their free will if anything

[subtle drift]

I do understand that

Maybe Skif was c-con agent even at the start of the game

[robust laurel]

These are not c-con agents

[robust laurel]

Why then are the TVs on Skif not working?

[subtle drift]

Why didnt they work on strelok too?

[robust laurel]

Because he is not an agent. You can find out about this from his dossier.

He was never an agent.
This is a twist from Stalker 2. Just like the twist that Scar was always an agent

[gusty lotus]

I don't think there is an exact lore answer so this is only my theories.

1. it has something to do with the heart if Chernobyl he carries
2. something to do with the original screwed up reprogramming
3. it's not actually Strelok
4. it's a really bad plot hole missed by GSC writers

[normal drum]

There IS an exact lore answer, you literally wrote it, right here

There was a programming error, he never was an Agent, from the very beginning to the end.

It was not only said in SoC, but again confirmed in Strelok's file.

[gusty lotus]

[spark bay]

When Skif kills Strelok, I was genuinely shocked to see him pick up the PDA and the message change from 'Kill Strelok' to 'Mission Complete'. Personally, I think the game intentionally keeps it ambiguous whether Skif is actually an agent planted among the stalkers.

There are definitely clues suggesting he isn’t — for example, if he were, he wouldn’t be able to use the TV trap to defeat Scar, since he would be affected by it too. But then, certain parts of the story still make you question it.

[robust laurel]

it's just a reference for the sake of reference and not more lol

This is just a joke and nothing more.

Like "Oh, someone finally completed this mission, cool reference"

[jagged hull]

yeah i dont see a reason to read into it much, as for skif being an agent, he doesnt need to be one for the story to make sense and theres not much proof for it

[fossil depot]

I like this. Embracing the darkness.

It's why I consider Kaymanov's ending to be relatively the best, followed by the Ward's. Strelok's is next, then Scar's. Because both of those are...pain.

[deep forum]

tbh. I watched the movie but still don't understand its handling of the wish room completely. I can't say I agree with your interpretation but had to rewatch to give a solid one of my own. The unsolid one is: For me it was a mix between: Standing infront of the door a) "helped everyone to realize their own desires and decide against entering the room" and b) "made everyone worry about what their true desires might be so they decided against entering".

I don't see a strong connection to Doctor to be honest. Spreading the zone like that has something violent as it pushes the zone onto the people. Something he hated with the first zone (though the other way around: pushing humanity onto the noosphere and its offsprings).

[deep forum]

I think that Doctor was in some sense Faust's spiritual father which also explains why they share the ending. How this works time wise, I am unsure.

Seeing a bit more about Faust's end goal would maybe also reveal a little about Doc. Faust called the duga a propegator if I remember correctly. I think he wanted to spread the zone, too.
Otherwise, what was his plan in Duga?

[spark bay]

Just like how everyone comes away with different thoughts and insights after reading a book or watching a movie, I can accept differing opinions. After all, at the end of the day, this is just my personal perspective.

Going back to the Doctor in the game — in the end, you discover that he unintentionally created the Zone. He originally intended to atone for his sins and live in seclusion in the Red Forest. But as shown through the documents you collect in the game, he never truly believed that using agents or controlling the Zone was the right approach. Nor did he believe that humanity’s darker nature could be eradicated so easily.

That’s why, during the final confrontation, he tells you that all the factions are merely trying to contain and keep the Zone locked away. But to him, that’s just burying the problem — much like how people rationally suppress the darkness within themselves so it doesn’t manifest in their actions. From his opposing standpoint, it’s only natural that he would want to “set the Zone free,” even if he doesn’t particularly care whether that freedom could lead to a new kind of disaster.

[spark bay]

Likewise, in the Doctor's route, you can find the following documents in X7 near the end of the game:

In 1993, Chubko's team at the X-10 lab tested a device codenamed Raduga, an omnidirectional psychic emission antenna.

The results were terrible: the regulator provided only a very limited transmission range — just one kilometer — and the interference was severe. Any living creature nearby would suffer damage from psychic radiation. After the report was sent to the X-8 lab, Suslov proposed improving the device to turn Raduga into a defensive weapon used to suppress aggression.

Add to that the fact that when you first encounter Faust, he’s already set up a psychic emission antenna — one only he knows about — right under the Daylight Faction’s nose. Then there’s the zombie incident in the Wild Island side quest. All of this points to the conclusion that, after Strelok destroyed the X-7 link chamber and Monolith was freed from mind control, Faust had already been planning everything for over a decade due to fundamental ideological differences with Strider. His goal was to bring Monolith back — and Duga was being used as a scaled-up version of the Raduga neural emitter.

If we were to talk priorities, Faust’s main objective was likely to reactivate Monolith, and only if he had the resources would he attempt to expand the Zone.

That said, I personally find the idea that the Doctor turns out to have been Faust in disguise all along to be rather far-fetched.

[normal drum]

His plan was to share "happiness" across the Zone aka make everyone Monolithians. From a certain perspective, Monolithians are truly happy, even Korshunov admits it in the hospital cutscene. What about Faust and Doctor, they're at least acquainted (photo of the CNPP in Faust's room in X5), but to think they were really close or even the same person, is illogical, Faust interfered a lot in Doctor's plans that almost ruined them.

Faust was stopped and only in his last moments of life, being already in the Subtle World, he admitted that people have to have freedom to choose if they want to believe in the Monolith (as he said, the Monolith gives happiness only to the chosen ones but Faust tried to play God and wanted to share happiness with everyone). His story and the character arc ends here.

[deep forum]

I also think that his story line ends with his death.

[deep forum]

I don't think they are the same. I think Doctor was involved in the creation/raising of Faust, but I am unsure about it timewise. It just makes sense to me.

[normal drum]

No, that happened after the Zone appeared, presumably in 2008 (the year Dvupalov most probably left the MDST after the government stopped to finance Ahroprom under which X-5 secretly worked) or 2011 (the year the original Monolithians went to the center of the Zone) (to clarify, Faust was captured before but was more like an empty shell at that time). Doctor was in the Red Forest since 2006 and never had a contact with the scientists since.

[spark bay]

Faust’s origins can be uncovered through the “For Science” side quest at the chemical plant. In the end, you’ll find an audio recording in the X-5 lab beneath the Agricultural Union, in which Dvupalov interviews child test subjects. In it, the scientists state that Faust is the only successful “work of art” among numerous failed experiments — because he has the ability to inspire others. This makes him a perfect candidate to infiltrate the Blackstone unit under the control of C-Consciousness and strengthen their forces. Like a cult leader, he can boost morale, and like a general, he holds power over the lives of the other Blackstone members.

Well, considering over a decade of scheming and preparation, Faust definitely qualifies as a commander. Damn it — he really achieved the goal he had meticulously planned for.

As for his origins: if you interpret it in the broadest sense — that a scientist who looks after lab mice can be considered their “father” — then Faust’s father would be Dvupalov, the lead researcher of the project at the time. However, judging by what Faust became later on, I highly doubt Dvupalov saw him as a son. More likely, he viewed Faust as a living reminder of his past mistakes.

That said, I guess spoilers are allowed here, right? I just realized I might’ve said too much — sorry about that.

As for Faust’s birth year, considering that the documents in X-5 already mention C-Consciousness and Monolith, and that there are old corpses of blind dogs and mutated pigs in X-5, these corpses look like they’re from the original version of S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl, I believe the Controller Project carried out there likely took place sometime between 2006~2011. However, after the failed attempt to link with the Noosphere in 2006, Kaimanov blamed himself and went into self-imposed exile in the Red Forest. Moreover, in his 2009 journal, he mentioned that he no longer cared about what C-Consciousness was doing. So strictly speaking, it’s unlikely that he had any involvement with Faust.

[jagged hull]

regarding dvupalov's connection to faust: when skif tells him that he plans to kill faust i distinctly remember him being disappointed about it

[normal drum]

Those weren't children, controllers are not born in labs, they are people who were experimented on. However, because the scientists wanted to make soldiers out of them right away, they manipulated a lot with people's brains to remove emotions, so they were practically brain dead and Dvupalov was the one who tried to "reboot" them but no one wanted to use their psychic powers.
Faust became the only exception not because he was different from others but because he was directly connected to the Monolith network (not the same as being a Monolithian, Faust had free will all the time like Dvupalov always wanted), he was given an idea, a belief that was worth to exist and use powers for. Him truly believing in the Monolith (unlike the ordinary Monolithians) is what made him inspiring.

[normal drum]

Yes, because Faust is the only living proof that years of Dvupalov's work weren't for nothing, that he was right all along, that people's humanity, keeping their emotions and free will intact is the key for using the psychic powers. Faust may have seen him somewhat as a father figure (probably?), because after all those years he kept the recording of Dvupalov talking to him in the lab.

[spiral siren]

Millions will die due anomalies and constant emissions, but life will keep finding a way to survive in a new world

[fossil depot]

Death is inevitable; I never see it as a problem.

[spiral siren]

Looking at the alternative of trying to contain the zone or make everyone a zombie, only the Ward truly destroys the zone. At the cost of your privacy

I can only consider Kaymanov plan as the canon ending, and the good one is the Ward ending

The zone is constantly expanding 5 km and that's no good

Either is destroyed or released all at once

And Richter suspicions about Strelok are totally fair, he suspects what he can do to the zone, speciallly that he isn't right on his head.

Killing the same Doctor that saved his ass a decade ago doesn't seems fair

[fossil depot]

I'm fine with the Board, though...privacy is a small cost to pay for stability.

[fossil depot]

Actually, it doesn't seem to be expanding in S2, apparently. Also, it wasn't expanding in CoP either; it only expands with the 'disaster' Emissions (the one in 2006, then the one in CS, then the one in SoC).

The regular, 'everyday' Emissions just seem to be a release of energy without actually expanding the Zone, since the Zone only expands when someone threatens the C-Consciousness, and they died in SoC.

[fossil depot]

Let's be honest, basically everyone who's in the Zone (except for people with strong minds like Degtyarev) are not right in the head.

Including Skif.

[fossil depot]

Doesn't Strelok play a recording of Kaymanov, though? The reason why he believes the Doctor is just another 'trying to control the Zone' and hence, wanting to eradicate him?

And considering Kaymanov accepts his fate without resistance (he has plenty of chances to shoot Skif dead)...I'm pretty sure Strelok is right about SOME of it.

[deep forum]

If I remember correctly the constant expansion is a rumor in CoP or SoC. However, the discussions largely agreed that it is only a wrong belief of stalkers.

[fossil depot]

No, the Zone did expand, but not as much as expected.

And it shows in S2, where Hermann's truck (which is outside the Zone's boundary) gets affected in the prologue. The Emission spreads beyond the Zone, because it's expanded. But...at most, it's like...20 KM extra. And it's not a fixed boundary, because places like the Duga and Pripyat water-front and SIRCAA are basically on the edges of the Zone and basically normal (except for radiation from the 1986 Reactor 4 explosion).

So the Zone is smaller than the in-game map's border, but the border itself is larger to accomodate that.

[robust laurel]

Also in Zalissya you can see the old wall, that is, the old borders of the Zone. The Zone is indeed expanding, but quite slowly.

[fossil depot]

True, though I'm kind of confused, since the border in Cordon is still...the same? Like, the gate is a bit back compared to SoC/CS, but that's just updating for S2; the outpost is still in the same place.

Though maybe the border is skewed more towards the south-east, since Clear Sky and their experiments with the Zone might've pulled it kind of there.

[deep forum]

sry, I referred to the constant expansion with each emission. There are singular events that caused growth. I am not denying that.

[normal drum]

It is mentioned in S2, by a scientist's notes somewhere in the Lesser Zone (or Cordon?), the Zone is expanding a little each Emission.

[fossil depot]

Story thing? 'Cause I didn't come across any note like that.

[deep forum]

The newly released Stalker 2 (2023?) Intro cutscene includes an interview with a scientist who mentions that the Zone has been stable and not growing for a while.

first emission 2006 made it grow 5km and constant expansion was part of the old Stalker 2 plan some fans claim.

I am team: it doesn't grow constantly atm.

It makes a lot more sense on many levels:

• constant growth would make every country in the world even more scared
• constant growth in radius or diameter is always a lot. I mean the square meters would be pi*(r_new^2 - r_old^2) so even if it just gets larger by a meter pi*(30001m^2-30000m^2)~~188km.

[normal drum]

No. The note is from a medic who was hoping that the Zone's expansion could possibly create more useful artefacts for healing people, but was forced by IPSF to abandon the research and to sign a non-disclosure agreement.

[normal drum]

Of course they would say something like that, should've they said "we cannot contain the Zone for 9 years already"?

[quick sun]

can somebody explain to me what striders endgoal was?

[fossil depot]

To live a superior life, peacefully.

Lack of the stupidity called 'money' and 'alcohol', to start with, and getting into a routine, normal stalker life by helping clean up (which, I guess, is a mirror of reality since the radio-active shit needs to be cleaned up and the Monolith equipment is made exactly for surviving that).

[spark bay]

The outside world is full of people who want to kill us, brothers! If you can't take it anymore, come to Wild Island and live a simple life like the Amish.

We can't escape our sin of killing during the brainwashing, but at least on this island, we can live in seclusion.

Faust: "Old soldiers never die, they just fade away. Living is worse than death. Follow me, brothers — Make Monolith Great Again!"

[gusty lotus]

Buncha dudes doing dude things

[quick sun]

thx

[lean relic]

what would a strider ending look like? would it just be the strelok ending?

[vapid spire]

Maybe the destruction of all psi-radiation since that's what's used in monolith brainwashing.

[shrewd igloo]

Married with faust after fix his problems and all the monolithians living on a inclusive stalkerworld where the past doens't matters

[deep forum]

I think Strider's ending would be a strong alliance between Noontide and Loners where Ward and SIRCAA only play the role of self-focused scientists. He didn't have big material goals.

[vapid spire]

So this has nothing to do with lore but in my save file, strider is walking around the abandoned noontide base alone. I know it's probably a glitch but it does go with the theory that strider didn't actually die and that everything that happened in doc's bubble was an illusion.

[quick sun]

Would I be correct to assume that the faust ending is like the ending that the freedom faction would like to achieve? The zone spreading all around the world, being free etc.

[deep forum]

Is it well defined what the Psi Beacons in the Swamp do? I know that they prevent you from going to the CS base, but I am unsure. I mean apparently they lure powerful mutants out, but do they - similar to the brain scorcher - scramble brains that go near the CS base? If so, do you think some Stalkers have been turned to Zombies as a result?

[shrewd igloo]

No, Freedom just want a better deal in general with the zone.

[spark bay]

Let’s put it this way: Suppose there is a war zone. Within it, there is a group of people called the "liberals." They make money in the war zone and form armed factions, becoming warlords themselves. They might say, "So why should the war end? Isn’t it better for the people in the war zone to live freely?" However, would they support turning the entire world into a global war zone? The liberals would likely not agree with that. After all, that would no longer align with the ideology of liberals but rather with that of terrorists.

In terms of the ideological spectrum, doctor could be considered "liberal," but if their actions shift towards the far-right or even veer into terrorism, they no longer align with what most liberals would consider acceptable. At that point, it’s no longer about freedom or liberalism—it’s about something much more extreme. I don’t think even self-identified liberals would condone such behavior.

[tired wave]

Anyone know what Rostok was before the event? Just curious.

[robust laurel]

In a Ukrainian-language chat, there was once a discussion about the ideological views of different sides in the story. And we came to the conclusion that
Spark — utopian communist-transhumanist: absolute happiness and immortality for all through cleansing from evil, with infinite time for self-realization, but without the right to darkness.
Ward — techno-communists: infinite energy and controlled agents for a technological paradise, where freedom is in methods, darkness is directed toward good, with the risk of totalitarianism.
Strelok — isolationist-conservative: isolation of the Zone to preserve the authentic world, where stability and self-reliance are more important than progress, with the sacrifice of those locked inside.
Doctor — anarcho-communist with a Darwinian bent: progress through chaos and sacrifices, where survivors evolve without illusions, and strength comes from honest struggle.

So basically, all sides of the conflict are left-wing — only Strelok holds right-wing views.

[fossil depot]

When you put it that way, all the endings (apart from the fact that Spark's went wrong) sound good enough to follow through.

[robust laurel]

Spark's went wrong?

[fossil depot]

Spark's was supposed to be absolute happiness and immortality, as you said, but due to Faust and the Board screwing around, everyone became zombies, instead.

Since the Shining is supposed to be real till everything went wrong.

[robust laurel]

They promised eternal life and eternal happiness. They fulfilled all of it.

[fossil depot]

But that's not what happened, did it?

[robust laurel]

What do you mean it didn't happen? The zombies live forever, and they’re eternally happy too.

They promised eternal life and eternal happiness

[fossil depot]

I don't think zombies ever...live. Everyone knows the sad fate they face, stuck inside their rotting and decaying bodies with their minds lost.

And the 'happiness' is just an illusion; Skif only thinks he's got the dead and alive with him, but the fact is everyone's dead.

[robust laurel]

Ordinary zombies in the Zone, affected by psi, are not the same as the zombies in the Spark ending.
In the Spark ending, they have control over the Noosphere — meaning it’s no longer a chaotic psi influence that destroys the brain. It’s a completely different state of human existence. This should be compared to The Matrix, not to “brain rot,” because those are entirely different things.

And the fact that zombies can live forever — we have direct evidence from the game itself, as well as proof that psi energy is capable of healing people. Therefore, they are zombified without psi immunity, and as a result, they live forever because the psi sustains them.

And the question of illusion is completely irrelevant. Solipsism provides the answer to that.

You may not like that it’s an illusion, since as an outside observer you know it — but that doesn’t matter in Skif’s context. Because they gave him (and not only him) eternal life and happiness. You may also dislike the form in which it was realized, but the fact remains: they fulfilled what they promised.

[fossil depot]

Uh...it's doubtful that they have control over the Noosphere, since the ending shows Skif stumbling like a zombie without control of himself or awareness of the world around him and the Zone is still the same nightmare that it's always been.

Because even in the Matrix, people don't become zombies, you know? The Matrix would be more like getting into the pod itself (as it happened with the C-Consciousness).

[fossil depot]

I mean, personally, I can't see it as eternal life and happiness, since zombies are zombies. Of course, this requires an expansion of the lore, but honestly...feels more like a prison for the mind that's more like being stuck in the Trainman's station instead of being able to live in the real world.

[robust laurel]

The Matrix can take different forms of realization. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a capsule, as it literally was in the movie. And yes, they do control it. They never said they were going to destroy the Zone or anything like that.

[robust laurel]

Do you know what solipsism is about?

The Spark ending can only be understood if you understand what solipsism is.

[fossil depot]

Yes. The idea that one can only know about themselves and nothing else due to limitations of perception and experience.

[robust laurel]

In the Spark ending, Richter said a line that answers the question, “Does reality matter?”

[fossil depot]

Yes, but again, my point is that anyone who's in the Matrix, their real selves don't become a zombie to lose their mind entirely. They remain fully conscious and aware once they wake up. And while they're in, they're, I guess, sleeping and not zombified.

[fossil depot]

Well, I'm doing Spark, so I'll rush through and find out.

[robust laurel]

So where does the idea that the brain has rotted come from? This is a different form of human existence. Immortality is only possible this way. This follows from the game’s rules, where psi energy heals and cures people (effectively granting eternal life) by removing psi immunity. Therefore, this is the only way to achieve the immortality they promised. And projecting another reality into the brain is not a problem, since, again, “solipsism” — and Richter has already answered the question, “Does the illusion matter?”

You should rather perceive this as a “new way of human existence”

The fact that from the outside it’s an empty physical shell merely mimicking movements doesn’t matter, because consciousness is what’s important. And Skif is fully conscious — he can feel, see, and so on, even though it’s a different reality for his brain. But again, that doesn’t matter at all. Our consciousness is what truly matters, because our experience shapes who we are, not so-called “objective reality.” This is what Richter means when he says, “Reality is whatever you think is real.”

[fossil depot]

The problem is consciousness doesn't really work that well without a physical connect to the world. That...is where things go wrong.

It's why the Noosphere is 'dead', but people like Faust can actually manipulate things far beyond what's thought possible, because it uses the consciousness and the Noosphere together with the material world to actually effect a change.

[robust laurel]

And I haven’t even mentioned that Scar is only a mediator; he isn’t capable of controlling it physically (for that, he would need the Heart of Chornobyl)

So, who controls it? Logically, it must be the Representative. However, they are dead. Therefore, there’s only one conclusion: “subtle matter exists.” Otherwise, no one could have created the illusion. Scar was not capable of this on his own.

[fossil depot]

But this.

If the physical shell of your body and the brain are gone...well...

[fossil depot]

I'll check Richter; I can finally rush through the story after cleaning out the map. Right now stuck at Varan, but shouldn't be too long, NGL.

[robust laurel]

But in the Spark ending, they said that Skif “feels” — meaning that for his brain and consciousness, this is reality.

[robust laurel]

Richter says this line in the final cutscene.

[fossil depot]

That is definitely interesting, though the final cut-scene (the one after Scar gets into the pod) is...well, it confuses things.

[robust laurel]

I’ve already mentioned in the Ukrainian chat that all the endings are good ||for Skif ||
Also, all the endings perfectly fulfill what they promise. Choosing any ending isn’t a question of “will it really happen as they say, or are they deceiving us?” — it’s a question of “moral choice.” In other words, each ending primarily presents the player with a moral, idealistic dilemma. This is what makes Stalker 2 quite unique: it provides idealized conclusions where philosophy and morality take center stage, rather than questions of “execution.” So delving into “they didn’t fulfill what they promised” is a mistake.

For example, in the Spark ending, the moral question is: “Is eternal life in another reality acceptable to you, effectively in an illusion of happiness where you won’t have the right to choose the ‘dark’?”

And this applies to all endings where, first and foremost, it’s a moral dilemma.

[fossil depot]

I agree with this; the first choice is to determine what (and hence, who) you feel right (or wrong) and who to go with (or oppose).

But I can't ignore the larger premise, honestly.

[robust laurel]

You see the point. Any work, when it raises a question, presents it within the story. What I mean is, if the work wanted to ask, “Is this really possible to achieve?” it would have done so through the words of its characters — something you could read or observe. However, Stalker 2 never asks a question like, “Will the Strelok really protect the Zone?” Instead, it asks, through the Doctor’s words, “At what cost will he do it?” The game always frames the question as “at what cost?” rather than “how?” Because, in the world of Stalker, control over the Noosphere is essentially a “wish-granter,” but a real one, and no one questions whether it can be done.

What I mean is, if the game wanted to raise the question, “Is this even possible to achieve?” one of the characters in the story would have mentioned it.

[jagged hull]

id disagree that ward/regulatory board ending is communist or left wing at all

its the ultimate anarcho capitalist dream where a single corporation has the power to run the world

[robust laurel]

They literally say “happiness for everyone” in the ending, lol.

[fossil depot]

Right, basically the Thanos dilemma at the end.

[jagged hull]

its hard to take that seriously for me since its a corporation saying it

[fossil depot]

https://tenor.com/view/what-did-it-cost-sånn-540-thanos-gamora-everything-gif-16257194221021082175

[jagged hull]

either way im not sure if its accurate to prescribe an ideology to a corporation whose goal is to just produce profit

[robust laurel]

The fact that it’s a corporation doesn’t make their views “non-leftist.” That’s not how it works.

[fossil depot]

Maybe the corporation's just a front to something else?

Also, Ward is decidedly non-profit (beyond wanting to cover their expenses, which are provided for by SIRCAA anyways).

[robust laurel]

Yes, that’s the point: they’ve always said that their goal isn’t money. They are completely ideological, just like Spark, obsessed with the idea of eternal happiness for people. The methods are just different. That’s why Strelok said they are the same.

Listen to their dialogues with the NPCs, or, for example, in the game’s ending, where they clearly state what their goal is.

[jagged hull]

where does worldwide surveilance fit into this?

[robust laurel]

Yes, that’s exactly the moral dilemma in their ending: “Are you ready to be happy and live in a world where there will effectively be infinite energy through control?”

[jagged hull]

also its not that corporations cant be leftist or cant have leftists in them its just that its not rare for corporations to state publically that they want to do good and then turn around and do some evil shit

seeing how the board operates, its not hard for me to see how they could abuse their power for their own profit

[robust laurel]

Yes, the methods can be harsh, as in all the endings, but in the end, they achieve their goal. Nowhere in the game does it show that they wanted money or power; on the contrary, Agata clearly says at the end that she wants happiness for everyone. You can come up with your own “what if she’s lying?” scenario in your head, but that would be speculation and imagination, not fact.

We are evaluating their views, and Agata clearly has communist views

[jagged hull]

another issue i have with prescribing communism to the board/ward is that the way how they gain power kinda goes against the main ideas of communism, its more like how the soviets worked which we all know was 95% an oligarchy and 5% actual attempts at socialism

if youve played deus ex the moral questions surrounding the ward ending sound a lot more like the helios ending rather than anything else

[robust laurel]

I’ll repeat: nowhere in the game do they say they want money; they clearly state that they want a “New happy world with infinite energy.”

The fact that the ending resembles something from another game is fine, but nowhere in Stalker 2 do they say that Agata’s ultimate goal is money.

[jagged hull]

communism isnt just not wanting money, its one element of it, flattening the class structure in society and empowering people to govern themselves are also very major parts of the ideology

[robust laurel]

They literally want to make everyone equal, because infinite energy makes that possible, as does their desire for happiness for all.

[strong flume]

Doesn't the Ward also have the backing of the original X-Project backers, so basically the same people who funded and wanted to see what the original X-Project scientists could/would achieve and basically started the zone in the first place?

[jagged hull]

in this case ward/the board are used interchangably

[jagged hull]

the board never intended to create the zone, it was a byproduct of c-con/MDST going rogue

[strong flume]

Ahh okay that makes sense, I forget that C-consciousness was never supposed to be and was really just X-Project going rogue and really doing their own thing and it all went downhill and uphill after that

[robust laurel]

#📸┃скріншоти-та-відео message

[normal drum]

The Regulatory Board doesn't (for real) win in the Ward ending. The only opinion that really matters in that ending is Agatha's and only her. Whatever she wants will be implemented, no what the other members of the Board want. Hermann stated: "She’s bigger than any of us. Maybe even bigger than the people we’re working for." What Agatha wants is 'happiness for everyone', she's idealistic about that. Even if the Board will benefit from being in control of the anomalous energy, they also will be controlled by Agatha so there's literally no way that the Board could turn left. In none of the endings someone turns left, otherwise they would've made no sense.

[jagged hull]

i always thought that agatha was just one of a group of top executives but yeah i guess she could be the most powerful out of them

[robust laurel]

But also, if you listen to Skif’s dialogue with the Doctor in the Ward ending, Skif also says he wants a “new world,” meaning he is ideologically idealistic as well. And in the game, you can find NPC dialogues expressing similar views.

[jagged hull]

im starting to come around to this idea more but i still think there are anarcho-capitalist elements. in the end if the plan comes to fruition the board/agatha will end up succeeding all of the governments in the world, which is very reminiscent of cyberpunk depictions of how anarcho capitalism works out

[jagged hull]

also this is just a product of right wing ideas being boring, with the stated goal of keeping things the same

doesnt work very well for an interesting ending, so i dont think this analysis gets us much closer to discerning the political views of the writers of this game

not that i think that this was the goal, its just an interesting thought exercise

[robust laurel]

There’s another thing that defines the right — “racial realism” — but that’s a completely different matter and has nothing to do with Strelok.

[fossil depot]

The problem is capitalism is inherently stratified, whereas in the Board ending (since it's NOT a Ward ending and Korshunov is just another cog regardless of how much he knows), everyone is now equalized in every way socially (with the rest to come as society changes).

Meaning the stratification is gone, so capitalism has no meaning anymore.

[jagged hull]

i doubt it has anything to do with whats said in stalker since the game is mostly racially colourblind

[jagged hull]

i guess another thing worth pointing out that anomalous power isnt everything, i doubt that it can replace the many other natural resources that are needed by people

[robust laurel]

I mean what defines people with right-wing political views, but I immediately noted that this has nothing to do with Stalker 2 or Strelok’s views.

[jagged hull]

yeah i didnt mean to dispute what you said

[fossil depot]

Yes, but again...the stratification is gone, so what's the point of being wealthy?

In fact, it'd actually lead to removing the stupidity of man-made economics completely (which Strider aimed for by eliminating money and trade).

No one would be wealthy or poor, since everyone's on the same level.

[robust laurel]

Mostly, everyone here in the chat is focused on the story and engaging in fun and mental exercises.

[robust laurel]

I once explained in detail in the Ukrainian chat how infinite anomalous energy works in the Stalker world, but I don’t know how to write it correctly in English. Maybe @normal drum could write it.

[normal drum]

It does, because applying anomalous energy to the matter modifies it, gives it unusual properties that cannot be achieved with the "regular" physics. Regular artefacts are just impure, "natural" phenomena made of random objects but with the Generators under control this could be raised to a previously unseen level. This would become an ultimate industrial revolution.

[jagged hull]

fair enough

[robust laurel]

Strelok’s ending also promotes the idea of “individualism,” which is quite close to me. Strelok is the only one among all sides of the conflict who prioritizes “individual human freedom,” which also ties back to the ending of Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl, where Strelok decided to kill the scientists because they would have deprived people of the choice to “choose the dark path.”
Which is overall a very interesting idea, and I’m glad that Stalker 2 explored it so well, and specifically through this character.

[fossil depot]

He also traps everyone in the Zone inside...robbing them of their own choice as well.

[robust laurel]

He didn’t have a choice because there was no time. If he had given everyone time to leave, the Board could have started an invasion.

The Board wasn’t destroyed, so he couldn’t just let everyone go

[fossil depot]

Considering he has the power to raise a psionic wall encompassing the Zone, I'm pretty sure he could've used the Noosphere to make an invasion impossible.

Even the Ward gets its equipment destroyed on a regular basis, and that's with no one in the pods.

[robust laurel]

For him, the Zone is something more — something alive — and the stalkers would have taken from it something that is unacceptable and a violation of the Zone’s freedom.

[fossil depot]

Right, but his 'individualism' seems to be, quite predictably, limited to himself and no one else.

[robust laurel]

Not exactly. His idea is to close off access to the Noosphere to all of humanity. The fact that he controls it effectively prevents anyone else from trying to enter or take control. On one hand, this limits human development, but on the other, he is removing a tool that could be used to restrict people’s freedom. In a way, he is also protecting humanity.

[fossil depot]

@normal drum - saw the image, and I get it now. Still, as I said before, I just can't wrap my head around it due to the larger premise.

[fossil depot]

But what about individualism? About letting people make the choice to, as said above, 'go down the dark path'?

[robust laurel]

But this would contradict the freedom of the Zone.

As they say, "one person's freedom ends where another's begins." Humanity wants to use the Zone in one way or another, including to deprive people of their freedom.

[fossil depot]

But then does that not make him exactly what he opposes?

[robust laurel]

No, because he is trying to preserve the Zone's free will.

There is no other option.

It's like saying "We put thieves in prison and violate their freedom because they violated someone else's." That doesn't make us "inconsistent."

[fossil depot]

And what about this, that you said above?

...also ties back to the ending of Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl, where Strelok decided to kill the scientists because they would have deprived people of the choice to “choose the dark path.”

Because now, Strelok is the guy depriving others from choosing the dark path himself. So when those proverbial prisoners rebel and kill the prison guards, it'd basically be a repeat.

[robust laurel]

Again, he did not deprive people of the choice to choose the dark, they can destroy themselves in any other way they like, but not through interference with the Noosphere because this is interference with the Zone's free will.

In his understanding, the Zone is something living and interference with the Noosphere should not violate it.

There should be no violation of the Zone's free will. This is how he sees it, which does not contradict the view of individual freedom.

[fossil depot]

Fair points there, I suppose.

[subtle drift]

GSC really massacred Duty in S2. They have no impact at the story at all.

Freedom, STC Malachite, Skadovsk, Slag Heap, Zalissya and Cordon, Yaniv Corps and Noontide are all involved. You have to atleast pass through them to complete the story.

You don't have to visit the duty side of the map at all.

If you do, its almost completely empty. Duty has almost no side content, barkeep quests can sometimes bug out and don't complete, and their base is pretty bland with propaganda being spoken with a monotone voice constantly.

I feel like in the future Duty content must be expanded. Almost all other factions are tied to the story and have more side content.

[jade furnace]

They practically became homeless in S2

[quick sun]

I only realized in my 2nd playthrough that you could go to the part of the map where the big fire anomaly is next to the duty camp because the game was not leading you there in any type of way
I guess if you assassinate the duty garbage leader you get his stash coordinates that lead you to the duty base and if you head there you have those duty guys who want your assistance in defeating a bunch of bandits and you can encounter the old duty guy nearby lamenting his fallen comrades but I agree, their representation is very weak

[subtle drift]

You can also help Duty PVT with killing Snorks but that's about it. Very weak.

Freedom has a cool arena quest and another quest where you kill a bunch of bandits at the very least, plus some side content around rostock

[quick sun]

true, the potential of content in stalker is enormous, I think they could have cooked some more, maybe some cool cinematics with freedom or duty involved, one main story mission with duty & freedom or something like that
but maybe they will do so in the future

[fathom veldt]

don't forget bread quest in rostok, or the guy you help in the Zalissya and later help him get to Rostok, then you find him dead with spoiled can

[spark bay]

who?

[spiral siren]

You will be for a surprise that Zulu unit is going to be involved deeply in the DLC

[quartz spear]

Freedom don't have any part in story.)

[subtle drift]

Their location does

[ornate venture]

mytz1927 has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[strong flume]

Honestly the promise of a Freedom and Duty aligned DLC is what I'm most excited for, I honestly love both of the factions and I can't wait to see if we'll just get missions about fighting over territory or if we'll get a whole expansion to the map as well to have Freedom and Duty fight over as well and hopefully an arsenal upgrade I want more guns even if they're redundant at some points, variety is the spice of life and death, ||Though I wonder if they'll have their own themed endings saying the Duty vs. Freedom war doesn't kick off till after SIRCAA and neither side really knows who started it again||

[deep forum]

I don't care about more guns, but I am also looking forward to more Freedom and Duty content. I think the new plot starts when the dialog lines "the other side broke the treaty" start popping up. Would make sense that both parties try to recruit Skif to do XYZ now that the treaty is broken to gain control of ZYX.

[spark bay]

Duty’s side stories are scattered throughout the open world. For example, at the boathouse, you’ll come across some Duty members who got into trouble while hunting a Psicat. Or at the cement factory area in Kopachi, you’ll find Pvt. Tymchenko, who, according to Zulu, was supposed to go through a trial but ended up getting wiped out by Snorks.

You’ll also encounter a campfire gathering in Cordon, where three rookies from the beginner village talk about splitting up—one joining Freedom, one Duty, and the last becoming a bandit at the Garbage. The one who joined Duty ends up having the worst fate: caught between Zulu and a general who dislikes him, his squad gets stuck with junk weapons and nearly wiped out during a mutant encounter.

As for how the civil war started—it was honestly just stupid. It all began with a long-time Duty regular at the 100 Rads Bar who got into a drunken argument and was killed by a drunkard from Freedom. That one death became the spark that ignited everything. But when you do the side quests in Rostok—like rescuing the hostages or eliminating the bandits—you eventually discover that it was actually the Duty bartender who caused that group to get wiped out.

So honestly, all I can say is that there's a deep grudge between these two factions. And after Ward’s failure at Duga, it finally gave them the excuse they'd been waiting for to launch a full-blown civil war.

[strong flume]

Yeah honestly I don't know, I feel like Duty was more rearing up for a fight with Freedom and had an even more reason to rear up for the fight with Freedom with them basically being a shadow of their former selves and if anything being nothing more than a shadow for the Ward at least they say that, than Freedom wanting to be rearing up to fight Duty, as the drunk Duty soldier in the 100rads bar has to look at his PDA at something that's quite disturbing to him before snapping and threatening to kill Freedom members, which makes me think that there was a precursor event to that, he got sent a message over Duty PDA messages that basically said something like, "War is back on, Freedom started it 100% feel free to shoot Freedom on sight cause they did something." As when you listen to Duty members and even to their main base intercom messages, it's all about basically saying they can't wait to fight again, while Freedom members sound like they're begrudgingly being brought into something none of them really signed on for, especially the traders

Now I don't doubt Freedom will fight and there are some members of Freedom like Myklovich who want to fight and end Duty, but it just sounds like one side was more enjoying getting fat off of the sweet deal with the Ward giving them the center of commerce for the zone ||Which I'd love to see getting some love and being expanded on a little bit|| being Rostok and Duty getting shafted and growing more resentful and spiteful with losing their main HQ and then basically getting...a bridge outpost, and looking at their gear, yeah I'd be even more upset they're supposed to be supplied and backed by the Ward yet none of their gear looks it nor do they ever seem that well equipped and after SIRCAA their own men even start saying that their gear sucks and wished they got Ward supplies, though there are even some Duty members who don't even want the war either so it's gonna be an interesting thing to see developed on

[spark bay]

To be honest, my first time entering SIRCAA left a deep impression on me — everything was so ironic: the pristine environment, the greenhouse designed to prevent energy release storms, the artifact display area that looked like a trophy room, and they even broke concrete pillars to plant vegetation as installation art. No wonder the chemical factory scientists always acted superior, saying I’m worth more than you animals. Wow, the people at SIRCAA are basically nobility.

[strong flume]

I loved seeing SIRCAA for the first time, especially when being stuck in the swamps for a long while, to go from clear sky's ruins to the pristine almost laboratory environment of SIRCAA which was really scientific based and not just someone in a bunker with 20 armed guys outside was quite a change and I felt out of place but somewhat safe as well lol

[spark bay]

Yeah, watching the energy storm and its dissipation back to normal from Darlin’s room is truly beautiful. Then I think about how every time I’m stuck hiding like a caveman in a cave just trying to survive. lol

[strong flume]

That was honestly epic, like it shows how far the scientists there have come, while the rest of the zone has to hunker down and hide, they get to watch from comfortable rooms and sip whatever luxury they desire basically, makes ya wonder what all they were working on.

[sinful snow]

Enjoyed the side quest of helping a squad of them in cooling towers defend against a monolith assault

[deep forum]

can I shamlessly bump my question again?
TL;DR: What do we know about the Swamp's Psi Beacons and their effect on stalkers

[normal drum]

Like the similar equipment scientists use, Clear Sky used psi-beacons for studying and analitic purposes, they, too, produce psi-radiation which lures mutants. Kalancha reprogrammed them so they do produce a type of psi-radiation which hurts people (you can clearly see/feel it when you are about to turn the last beacon off).

[spark bay]

I’m not sure if you’ve played the Ward route, but when you go straight into the Icarus Base to find the undercover agent, if you choose to help the doctor collect the PSI beacon data, you’ll learn that the beacon can control the intensity and range of electromagnetic waves. You can either make it very strong but with a limited range—killing all nearby organisms—or lower the intensity to expand its coverage, allowing more humans to enter and eventually suffer psychic damage that turns them into zombies.

Basically, this was something scientists from Project X in 1996 already knew; Kalancha just made a renaissance-like rediscovery and application of it.

If you're genuinely interested in the lore, then you should at least try playing through the Doctor's ending yourself.
Before the final ending, you can collect quite a few documents and lore items.
If you organize all the information into a timeline, you'll be able to understand a lot more about what's really going on.

[ornate venture]

davfis has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[deep forum]

I have finished the doctors run but went spark before that.

[strong flume]

Does anyone else know about the horrifying radio transmission from helping Spirit in the tunnel? Like it sounds like a massacre or something worse is happening on the other end of that radio but are we supposed to think it's happening in the village that Spirit was trying to desperately to find a way into or is it happening somewhere else, is it a DLC tease about if we get into that village it won't just be all shining zone and Scar's bread but something way worse?

[vapid spire]

This is gsc's chance to introduce the sin faction in stalker 2.

[jagged hull]

oh god whats with the boner for sin

sin has always been just an edgy faction that was cut for that exact reason

[vapid spire]

I think the idea of partialy mutated stalkers is interesting.

[strong flume]

Honestly, make Sin partially mutated and twisted people either from Project X days or from an anomaly or weird experiment practiced by the people of that village who are supposed to be scientists iirc, I want a horror experience in Stalker 2 and if Sin is it fine I don't care for edgy stalkers but if they're heavily mutated and twisted people who are gonna be more sadistic and cruel than even Monolith, I'd be down

Though if it isn't Sin and is some new mutant or anomaly I'd be completely fine with that, or some psi effect that was created and is now terrorizing people, I mean someone blew up the tunnels to the village for a reason and RN the in game theory is the Yaniv Corps blew it up to block people from probably getting to Pripyat which is... interesting but still, they don't know for sure it's just a theory

[normal drum]

Strelok blew up the tunnels way back in 2011.

[vapid spire]

I heard there is suppose to be a new mutant called a c-embryo. Dunno if it got trashed or not.

[shrewd igloo]

Nah

Is a chance for DARK STALKERS

that ALREADY are mentioned on CLEAR SKY

And too, GSC isn't good making reinventions of discarded content, soooo not has sense recreate content like that.

[vapid spire]

They made the generators map real.

[shrewd igloo]

And they did it better.

Tho, i don't know what part of GENERATORS is GENERATORS because in the gamefiles there a dead_valley and generators.

[vapid spire]

Sin and dark stalkers are the same thing and where were they mentioned in clear sky?

[shrewd igloo]

1:
In Oblivion Lost ARE the same thingi
2:
In Clear Sky sin DON'T exists

[shrewd igloo]

Ashot mentions a rumor of Dark Stalker if u talk with him about "what's new in the zone" or smth

[vapid spire]

I don't care if they're called sin or dark stalkers, I kinda just want partial mutated stalkers implemented. Especially since we've never seen the mutation process in real time.

Closest we've had are those janky cut scenes in lost alpha.

[shrewd igloo]

I understand, would be cool if the thingi of the radio of Red Forest is dark stalker related.

[shrewd igloo]

Rumors? Alright, here's a little bedtime story, and it's about dreams, too. You ever tried sleeping deep inside the Zone? Well, I suggest you don't even try, because the horrors you'll dream of are beyond imagination. I heard a couple of stories about it: one guy had his heart rupture while sleeping - a terrible death. Another guy woke up but lost his wits for good - all he does now is hide from some dark stalkers he keeps going on about. So that's the rumor. If you really need to get your head down then you need a special helmet with a thin wire mesh on the inside. They say all military stalkers have them and they sleep like babies, no problem.

[vapid spire]

Going back to the generators, I actually haven't explored the old generators map yet so I don't know how different it is from the stalker 2 version.

I still have to do lab x-8 in gamma and I only just got done with lab x18 in lost alpha.

[shrewd igloo]

These levels are almost completely different, just the generators part is +- similar.
HoC generators/dead valley is much bigger than the OG level.

[vapid spire]

I've seen some gameplay of the generators map in gamma and it looks like you're more free to explore it and the middle part isn't as detailed.

[fossil depot]

I wish Dalin could've been saved through the wreck that the Zone is...

[strong flume]

I'm not gonna lie, Dalin I can't decide on, he wants to do good, but at the same time, he wants his dad, so I get the feeling he's torn between reuniting with his dad somehow or making vast changes and breakthroughs using the zone

[verbal wolf]

I know devs are still working on updates for the base game atm, but are there any hints on what future dlc or such will provide regarding factions or story content like CS or CoP?

[shrewd igloo]

The current ARG is about the first DLC soooo, u must suppose that any info that comes from the ARG is smth about the story of the DLCS.

[verbal wolf]

I like the game so far, though I know many were disappointed by missing features/content, performance, bugs, AI, and so forth.

I know a-life system is a big sticking point, but so far there's plenty to in Stalker 2 to enjoy. Just got it so I know that plenty of improvements have already been made.

[spark bay]

If you come to this channel, you'll just get spoiled early.

[fossil depot]

Yea, but he was still doing the right thing till Spark + Korshunov + Agatha + the Board + Hermann screwed up.

[deep forum]

I think Dalin is the perfect example of a scientist being a little reckless - and being a little reckless in the zone means death.
I mean: Obviously, they didn't understand the zone as well as they thought they do. I am wondering how much he really understood. He definitely had deep knowledge of some parts, but at the same time he rarely talks about real scientific discoveries he/SIRCAA made. Maybe Devs didn't want to bore us, but it always leaves me curious how much Dalin himself really knows about the zone.

[full crown]

wait lore ppl help me out how did skiff know where to go after the artfiact was destoryed his house?

[vapid spire]

I think he worked with smugling stuff into the zone before his house blew up.

[spiral siren]

@subtle drift he used to smuggle small artifacts for a fee when he was in the army, I think before the IPSF took control

[sinful snow]

Are you talking about the radio at the tower next to lymansk

[ornate venture]

xejljl_7_djoh has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[strong flume]

Yah

[frosty ridge]

i am a sin fan i like them for the "supporting zone expansion" thing, though i see less of a reason for them in the story now that we have project y (the good parts of sin without the cult)

[frosty ridge]

There is that line "He wants secrets, not discoveries" that gets said about him at one point. Cause Dalin's deeper motivation is to uncover his father's legacy and try to continue it. It makes sense he isn't a bragging sort, his real interest is in feeling closer with his parent

Dalin demonstrates the evils of SIRCAA very well. It is this liberalized, modern institution that claims to be better than Project X and the MDST before it, but it is ultimately controlled by the same forces who ran project X and it still holds onto their technocratic ideals of "controlling the anomalous energy" (as I like to say, the Zone is a mirror for humanity; trying to control the Zone is the same as trying to control humankind - it is all short-sighted technocratic fantasies). They could do good if they actually put their scientific skills towards helping others, like what Lodochka is doing for Noon, but they (and Dalin) can't because they fundamentally serve this mythical idea of technological progress being more important than the people they should be accountable to. They won't let go of that, they won't let go of the Wish Granter, Dalin won't let go of his father's legacy, and so it all comes crashing down in their hubris and ignorance.

My favorite fact about Dalin is he has a Monolith desk lamp. I will never shut up about this it is peak writing. Of COURSE this man has the Monolith on his desk, because he is so disconnected from the human cost and all he sees it as is a bit of impressive technology (his father's technology, no less). That is the sort of elitist technocratic disconnect that dooms SIRCAA. They talk a lot about humanity but cannot express genuine compassion for the human beings right in front of them telling them to stop their experiment and destroy the Monolith, because they see their work as more important than the petty concerns of normal people

[frozen shard]

Maybe I'm dumb and missed this in all four playthroughs I've done so far, but what did Scar do to the Duga and why? My guess is that it amplified psi control, but how was that a shot against the Ward and help Spark? Seems like it only helped Faust, which I figured Spark (and everyone, really) was against

[jagged hull]

i think scar only cared about hurting ward, without evaluating that it would put the position against monolith at risk

scar above all wants to harm ward

[frozen shard]

That does make sense

[strong flume]

Yeah Scar has essentially lost the plot ||mainly cause of C-consciousness|| and sees his greatest enemy the Ward as needing to be taken down, no matter the costs which is why he even sends a squad of Spark against a two way fight of some of the Wards best and the Monolith, he didn't care if they came back or not, hell his entire dogma is that they'll all meet again in the shining zone, and everything will be so much better then so don't fear dying just die for the rest of us

[fossil depot]

Except Dalin's doing good, it's the others behind SIRCAA that are causing problems, like Korshunov, Agatha and the Board.

Dalin has only one flaw, which is the arrogance normal of a person with his levels of experience and knowledge. Beyond that, he's genuinely trying to do good. It comes crashing down because he's being left in the dark by higher powers while they (and others) keep screwing things around.

Also, accountability to people is worse than technocracy, because people are biased and prejudiced for various reasons. They can't be trusted and hence, only the technocracy is a solution.

[strong flume]

Hell my favorite part of the game is us seeing Scar in the Stalker control program place and having him come to the realization that there may not be a shining zone after all and with that all the lives he threw away haphazardly were for nothing as he tries his hardest to justify working for the representative still, ||especially now that the representative was dead and gone by that point of the game but he's also brainwashed and controlled still so doesn't have a choice||

[frozen shard]

Doing the Spark story line really made me feel bad for all of them 😬

[strong flume]

I was fully on board with Spark...then my boi Star died at the Duga and nobody wept or mourned just kept going and I lost faith in them quick

[jade furnace]

sadge

[frozen shard]

My first playthrough, I confused Star and Scar with each other so much lol

[fossil depot]

I mean, the whole idea is 'eternal life in the Noosphere'.

The dead won't die, they'll just become part of 'the Force'.

Mourning someone who'll live eternally after shedding their mortal shell would be a bit ridiculous.

Also, what happened to Thanos. He was sad, but he had to keep moving since the greater goal was to be fulfilled. Being stuck on mourning would just destroy the point of the sacrifice.

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-infinity-war-marvel-day-heavy-toll-gif-14497732

[gusty lotus]

https://tenor.com/view/i-dont-know-kylo-ren-ben-solo-ben-swolo-adam-driver-gif-18172410183960697461

[fossil depot]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-the-hardest-choices-the-strongest-wills-gif-14113107

[strong flume]

I mean my first playthrough of working with Scar then turned into Strelok ending cause I mean, the legend of the zone wants my help, hell yeah

[crude topaz]

i went with project y, to me, its the only sane ending

mainly bc im pretty sure skif is manipulated into every other ending otherwise, going in the pod yourself just seems like taking charge of fate?

[jagged hull]

i took the same conclusion from that ending, there are others here saying that the manipulation doesnt really happen, but everything only becomes mask off around when the final choice is made

sure strelok gives an idea of what he plans to do, same with ward and spark, but the best lies are the ones that have some truth to them

its not like what doctor feeds to skif is the whole truth either but in the end skif has a chance to sacrifice himself for what he believes in and save the zone and its people

[robust laurel]

And what exactly doesn't happen from what was promised?

[jagged hull]

a politician can say that he will get rid of homelessness and it doesnt mean that the voters werent lied to if all homeless people just get murdered

i think the more accurate question to ask is if skif is statisfied in the end, after all he is pushed to follow any of the 4 paths with the expectation that in the end he will have some sort of happiness that he didnt have before

i guess in scar's ending it could be said that he does feel happy but its not really in the way we usually interpret

[robust laurel]

For something to truly be manipulation, I shouldn’t know the outcome I’m being led to. But, for example, when playing as Ward, I clearly understood where everything was heading, and nothing in the ending surprised me — and that was my first playthrough. Similarly, Strelok also promised to seal the Zone, and that’s exactly what happened, just as it was foreshadowed. As for Scar’s ending, I already wrote about that above.

[jagged hull]

where was the sealing of the zone foreshadowed? as far as i remember only "protecting" the zone is mentioned

i sure as hell was surprised when strelok became c-con 2.0 with his monolith parade and border anomalies

as for ward its a bit more gray because their end goal is somewhat clear but what they do along the way to skif is pretty obviously manipulation. a key example of this is the hologram scene in sircaa with herman

[robust laurel]

There’s a direct line from Skif in the game when you kill the Doctor: “We can’t let a monster out into the world,” which clearly implies closure. Same with other lines, lol. There are plenty of quotes from Strelok where he repeatedly says that the Zone must be sealed, along with access to the Noosphere. There’s also a secret dialogue between the Doctor and Skif where Skif says that the Zone is now his new home. You must’ve played the game very inattentively, because I honestly don’t know how you could miss that Strelok wants to close the Zone.

[jagged hull]

isnt that line you mentioned said after you kill doctor? when the final choice is made?

when skif has bought into the grift essentially

theres also no ambiguity in how skif feels after its all done and over

theres no soc true ending moment where theres ambiguity its just skif realising what hes done

[robust laurel]

So where’s the manipulation here?
You first say, “The deception is that the Zone was closed.”
But I’m saying that Skif himself also wants to close it.
So where exactly is the deception or manipulation then?

[jagged hull]

when manipulation is used the end goal can be to make a person believe something they dont believe

its the same in the scar ending, where he becomes the true MDST cultist even when scar is starting to break out of it

[robust laurel]

Lol, what? Then prove that it was manipulation.
You’re saying after the fact that “Skif believes, and that’s why he’s being manipulated.” But where’s the logical chain leading to that conclusion?
What makes you think he’s being manipulated rather than genuinely acting on his own beliefs? What kind of nonsense is that? That’s like drawing the target after the shot’s been fired.
You first claim there’s manipulation and then say, “Well, that’s the point of manipulation — to lead to the right decision.” But where’s the actual argument?

[jagged hull]

this is just the basic mechanics of how people get indoctrinated into cults or political movements

[robust laurel]

This reminds me of, “Well, I don’t like the other endings, so the conclusion is that Skif is being manipulated.”
And that’s twice as absurd, considering Skif is controlled by the player — the one actually making those decisions.

[jagged hull]

are suicide cults fine because people do believe in what they propose?

[jagged hull]

skif's ending is just barely better but that doesnt mean that it isnt better

as i mentioned doctor hardly tells the whole truth

[robust laurel]

And how is that supposed to prove that Strelok is manipulating anyone? You gave an analogy, not an argument.

[jagged hull]

the issue im having is that youre denying that people who end up being manipulated can end up believing in the end result of their actions

as for the proof, i mentioned before, skif doesnt give off the image of someone who his happy about his choice

his apathy is very clear, he doesnt care about his survival anymore as he is just carelessly walking around without a gun

[robust laurel]

I asked you from the very beginning: “And what exactly doesn’t happen from what was promised?”

You argued that “Strelok closed the Zone.” I countered by pointing out that Skif already knew or wanted the Zone to be closed even before it happened.

So what exactly did Strelok hide from Skif?
If the supposed “manipulation” is just about trying to get Skif on his side — well, lol, of course every faction in the conflict would want that. But where’s the actual deception here?
Everything Skif is promised, he gets. Everything he wants, he achieves.
So where’s the lie in that?

[robust laurel]

This is just my own impression, because I have a different one. This will not be an argument. We need something more substantial.

When someone claims that one person is manipulating another, there should be solid evidence to support that.

Manipulation is always about concealing the true purpose or goal. So who and what was hidden from Skif? He knew what would happen in all the endings.

[jagged hull]

there are a few cases where strelok omits the truth, such as the oasis scene where the conclusions he provides to skif are a very black and white reading of what psi-illusions are. from the lore we see, its much more complicated than what he describes, and its what ends up pushing skif towards strelok's side

seeing that in the few conversations with strelok that skif has he is already being given a fairly conclusively incomplete picture i think its worth considering

[robust laurel]

So that means he’s lying, lol?
He’s telling his truth, and it’s up to you as the player to decide whether to believe him. That doesn’t prove he’s lying.

Your point is that Strelok is supposedly withholding the truth because we, from the lore, know more. But where did you get the idea that Strelok knows it too?
The game has multiple truths, and it’s normal for it not to reveal everything.
But that doesn’t say anything about Strelok manipulating anyone.

All the more, that doesn’t indicate he’s deliberately hiding anything. Manipulation is about intentional deceit.

[jagged hull]

as for other examples, the painting of agents as a true enemy that needs to be dealt with on a short notice is fairly at odds with him later turning around and employing monolith. from what we see in the lore and in the gameplay, agents are mostly a non-issue, with most of them being either employed by project y or simply dead, and this is blown up massively, where strelok uses skif as a meatshield when its convenient to him

[normal drum]

(woah, this theme again)). didn't read it all but Skif def wasn't "manipulated" by anyone, it's quite obvious)

[jagged hull]

as far as i know in strelok's path the main reason for shutting down the agent network, but skif is told a tale of c-cons secret experiments that need to be shut down to save everyone

and again, as soon as skif is no longer needed monolith is back online serving strelok, when its pretty clear that he has the tools to protect himself without using c-cons evil experiments

[robust laurel]

He used the Monolith to save Skif’s life. They didn’t have free will permanently anyway.
Was Strelok supposed to just let Skif die? Whether he continues to use the Monolith is unknown.
As for other “manipulations,” provide a concrete argument, because you’re talking about something abstract.
Both Skif’s and Strelok’s goal was to preserve the Zone; there was no discussion of free will or “not using the Monolith.”

[normal drum]

No? Strelok clearly told Skif what he wanted and Skif agreed with him (in his/Skif's endings). The Zone became Skif's home and he's ready to protect from anyone who wants to control it or the humanity.

[jagged hull]

hes completely unprepared to protect anything he dropped all his worldly possessions on the way to seeing streloks handywork

[normal drum]

How come no one listened to the dialogs at Doctor's house after player's final choice?

[robust laurel]

It symbolizes that he now feels at home, and the Zone has become his new home, which is no longer under any threat.

Skif clearly said that the Zone is his new home. What’s so hard to understand about that?

[jagged hull]

a home with bloodsuckers running around, i think its pretty clear that disarming yourself in such a home without being held up by locals is a pretty clear statement of intent to not live that much longer

[robust laurel]

It’s fine that you don’t like Skif’s choice, but that’s not an argument, because he explicitly says, “The Zone is my new home.” And that’s that. There’s no ambiguity here — it’s a straightforward statement that’s hard to interpret any other way.

[normal drum]

What? Did you see any in the ending? Literally, Skif walks from the Generators to the Perimeter fully unarmed and didn't get a scratch, that's how peaceful the Zone became, Skif is happy to be here.

[jagged hull]

seems more like hes mostly fine with dying there instead

[jagged hull]

regarding the quote - what else is there for him to say after it has been made clear that he doesnt have a say in this at this point

i dont think it proves anything one way or the other

prison is home for someone who is incarcerated, that doesnt mean much

[normal drum]

"Strelok lied to me 😭 he didn't say he'll use Monolithians, i'm gonna kill myself" - that's how it looks from this perspective. Skif's got what he wanted in the ending, like he's got what he wanted in Spark's and Ward's endings.

[jagged hull]

well if you look at the scene my way thats not far from what skif thinks in that moment lol

i think if the intent was to show skif in his new home exactly that wouldve been done, as has been in the other endings. instead we see the extent of strelok's "love" for the zone where he turns into c-con 2.0 and his powers are shown for us to seen

i think its a pretty clear takeaway since the iconic military propaganda messages at the border are replaced by streloks voice

also i think im being slightly misunderstood, the manipulation that i talk about is not a bad thing writing wise, it gives good depth to the characters and serves the goal of deconstructing the chracters we've become familiar in the previous games

[robust laurel]

And that’s supposed to be an argument for why it’s “manipulation”? I have Skif’s direct line in front of me — and not just his, but also Strelok’s, who wanted the Zone to be protected. Skif wants that too. The fate of the Monoliths doesn’t bother them at all.

If Skif wanted to die, why didn’t he? He’s freely walking around. He literally couldn’t have traversed the entire Zone unarmed — it’s physically impossible. So at what point did Skif, who loves the Zone and sees it as a new home, suddenly change his mind? When Strelok used the Monolith to save him? Or when?

You’re talking about something abstract that you expect me to take on faith, while I’m presenting concrete arguments and direct quotes from the game’s characters. It seems you just don’t like the ending with Strelok, so you want to invent some narrative like “Skif was deceived and abandoned.” It’s just a resentful wishful thinking.

[cold quarry]

(the way Skif throws the radio off to the side is a clear sign of frustration/disappointment; I'm sorry you feel that is indicative of "he got what he wanted")

[strong flume]

I think it's a matter of perspective, the zone and Skif are free together when Skif gets in the pod, I think it's less about what the home looks like, I mean hundreds of Stalkers and Bandits call the zone home, it's just a matter that he knows he really does have nothing else to go back to, and honestly he's embraced his new home, he's gone from "I just wanna figure out wtf happened to my house" to "I'm literally fighting against a cult of fanatics who used to be my 'friends' and honestly I'm killing some of the biggest names in the zone in order to either protect the zone or protect the people I've come this far with"

[jagged hull]

1. a line out of context means nothing im not sure why you think its some trump card
2. there could be many reasons intended by the writers, but the one that seems the clearest to me is that not all people who want to die dont intend to deal the final blow themselves, its why overdoses and railroad tracks are used in these cases

it doesnt have to be flashy and i dont think it would be tasteful either - whats shown in the ending cutscene is already pretty telling

i dont intend to say that skif is wholely suicidal its just that apathy has taken him over

at that point he doesnt really care what happens to him, he knows how its gonna end either way

[robust laurel]

1. Out of context? It’s a direct line from Skif, and that’s exactly what it means. It’s part of Strelok’s dialogue.

2. So why isn’t death shown then, if that was the intention?

[robust laurel]

That’s just your interpretation — the way you see it — but you haven’t provided any argument to support that view. Meanwhile, I have several direct lines from the game’s characters, and all their actions were aimed at sealing the Zone. That was their goal and purpose. Apathy would need a reason, so what exactly are the grounds for Skif’s disappointment?

[strong flume]

The Zone is technically not freed in any other ending, Ward kills the zone, Spark just Status Quos it in a way, and Strelok just literally makes the Zone a prison inside and out, nobody in and nobody out, while Skif is the only one who really freed himself and the zone, claiming a new home and keeping it safe at the same time

[jagged hull]

1. context, the situation surrounding the line, the text surrounding the line. im not willing to debate over this
2. to not make the people who chose the ending feel like theyve been played? the ending already works as it does without the explicit death

[robust laurel]

Are you kidding? What context? I’m telling you he said it outright. There’s no other context. This is just absurd — a literal denial of reality.

[jagged hull]

i think the grounds for him feeling apathetic in the end is pretty clear - he came into the zone to find meaning in life and in the end he gave it away for someone who used his status to earn his trust

[robust laurel]

Skif literally told the Doctor in Strelok’s line that the Zone is his new home, and in another dialogue that the monster shouldn’t be released. What other context could there possibly be, lol?

[robust laurel]

And what grounds are there to think that? I’m not against different interpretations of the story. For example, I personally think the whole plot is Herman’s illusion. I don’t really have evidence for it, but that’s just my take.

[jagged hull]

its actually interesting that you use these 2 lines because they conflict eachother completely, on one hand the zone is a home, place to be protected, on the other its a monster that needs to be stopped. at this point strelok's doublespeak has taken root in skif's mind

and as i said before, the line about home doesnt necessarily need to have a positive or negative connotation, and from the context it could be interpreted either way, especially with the doublespeak thats involved

[jagged hull]

cool theory, you can tell me about it next time. as for the other half of your message, skif getting ready to repeat john marston's ending as he leaves x7 shouldve been enough

[robust laurel]

Um, what? Where’s the contradiction in everyone loving the monster? Are you kidding? Doesn’t it bother you that right after the line about the monster, Skif also tells Richter, “The Zone must be free,” and then Strelok adds, “It couldn’t be truly free while he lived”? These are direct lines from the game. How did you even play it? Lol. Literally, right after the line about the monster comes the line, “The Zone must be free.”

[cold quarry]

(Strelok used the terms "protect the zone from exploits" and Skif agrees in principle since he sees it as his new home, those are clear; the way Skif drops the gun after hearing Strelok on the radio is a sign of "what have I done" and the way he throws away the radio is a sign of "this is not what I signed up for" - he agreed with Strelok on the principle but not on the method, which is the evidence that Skif did not know this is the way it would turn out)

[robust laurel]

Dude, I really recommend you play the game. Because it feels like you’re drawing conclusions about Strelok’s ending just from the final cutscene, which it seems you’ve only seen on YouTube.

[jagged hull]

judging things that come before after seeing the full picture

crazy shit

[robust laurel]

You’re literally talking about contradictions in the lines without understanding their meaning, lol.
There’s no contradiction if you actually play the game and listen to the dialogues instead of drawing conclusions in your head.

[jagged hull]

how the open doublespeak is not obvious to you is mindboggling, just the fact that it all agrees with streloks worldview exactly should be proof enough that strelok has rubbed on off skif heavily

agents are the enemy, the monolith are loyal soldiers, doctor is so dangerous that strelok cant get near him, yet all he has is a hatchet, its all just the perfect rendition of a totalitarian and a loyal follower

[robust laurel]

Skif, by your own words, spoke what you call contradictions in almost the same dialogue — first to the Doctor, then immediately to Richter.
The fact that you can’t see there’s no contradiction there is because you want to see Skif as a life-resentful kid. What am I supposed to do? You’re proposing an interpretation of Skif as someone hurt by the world, yet you don’t provide direct quotes from the game — only assumptions.

[jagged hull]

the goal is not to paint skif as suicidal/apathetic for the whole duration of the game, and im not sure why you need to reframe it as that

being used and thrown away and feeling apathetic afterwards is a completely human response

as opposed to getting stockholmed into loving someone who hurt you like strelok did

[robust laurel]

For heaven’s sake, just play the game already. Seriously. You clearly didn’t listen to the dialogue explaining why Strelok himself didn’t go kill the Doctor. Or do you really not understand the reason he acted that way? Doesn’t it mean anything to you that the Doctor had agents all over the Zone and the world? Please, seriously, play the game — I’m asking you. It’s really hard to have a conversation with people who’ve probably only watched it on YouTube.

[jagged hull]

ive made my case, i dont see reason to proceed if my views are discarded for a made up reason

[robust laurel]

And you don’t call that resentment?

[robust laurel]

I can believe that the entire plot is Herman’s illusion without having evidence for that position. And then I’d be upset if people considered my view baseless.

[jagged hull]

why do i even bother i havent played the game according to you

[robust laurel]

Having an interpretation is fine, but there should be evidence to support it. Or you should just say outright, “I believe this, but I have no proof.”

[jagged hull]

im sorry but you are not the overlord of what is valid proof and what is not. ive made my case, find someone else to call crazy for believing this

[robust laurel]

Because you literally don’t know the context of the dialogues being discussed — more than that, you don’t know why Strelok killed the Doctor. So yes, I’m concluding that you haven’t played Strelok’s storyline.

[jagged hull]

so have i not played or just that i havent finished strelok's path

or did your omnipotence change my past

id just rather you didnt choose to go down this path

[normal drum]

The full picture in question:

• Strelok sees Skif not only as just his ally but a someone close to a friend, Skif's the only person who sees things like him, to whom Strelok can talk freely, he's practically the first person Strelok ever trusted after the split with Doctor.
• At Strelok's final scene he looks at his weapon thinking if he trusts Skif enough to keep him alive as he's the only person who may stop him after getting to the capsule. And Strelok trusts him, he really believes Skif.
• Skif became disappointed after he saw Monolithians aiming at him, that was the moment he thought Strelok betrayed him. But Strelok saves him, what we see in Skif is relief, he epically goes between the lines of Monolithians knowing they did it. The Zone is safe from the governments, from the oligarchs, from the anarchists.
• If Skif thought " What have I done?", why wouldn't he run back to the capsule to shoot Strelok? The door is right here, just go back the way you left. But Skif didn't do it, because there was no reasons to.

[robust laurel]

That’s what a discussion is for — you need to provide a solid argument. Because so far, all I’ve seen is, “Well, I think so.” That’s not bad, it’s just a different format of discussion, where we’re simply sharing surface impressions. Our conversation started with you saying that Skif is being manipulated, yet you haven’t been able to provide logical proof of that.

[cold quarry]

(he did not turn back because he has not seen the perimeter; I don't think Skif thinks he was "epic" walking past the monolith after what he learned about Noon, and sorry I don't see him throwing the radio as a sign that he is ok with any of what is happening)

[jagged hull]

the surface reading points towards the interpretation of skif being tossed away as a useless pawn in the end - it is on you to disprove that, and so far from what im reading the only proof is skif reading strelok's lines back to other characters, which doesnt go against what i said

[jagged hull]

you bring up a good point, a skif alligned to strelok is necessarily sympathetic to the plight of ex-monolithians, its not something that just can be discarded

[robust laurel]

Actually, it’s up to you to prove that Skif was deceived. You’re the one who said he’s being manipulated, so it’s on you to demonstrate it, not me.

Manipulation is the act of controlling or influencing someone cleverly, unfairly, or secretly, often by concealing the true purpose or goal.

So based on this definition, prove that it happened — the burden of proof lies with the one making the claim.

Where exactly did Strelok deceive Skif?

[jagged hull]

the question was raised before as to when skif realised when he picked the wrong side - him stepping out to mind controlled monolithians would be the clear threshold for that, given his deep connection to strider

[jagged hull]

strelok uses his status to gain the trust of skif and send him into suicide missions - that should be enough for any real life situation

along with all of the rest that i mentioned beforehand

[robust laurel]

So it doesn’t bother you at all that you can reach Strelok’s storyline without sympathizing with Strider? What makes you think he sympathizes? Strelok’s ending can be achieved regardless of whether you sympathize with the Monolith. So the conclusion is completely flawed.

[jagged hull]

the options skif has are to tell a white lie to strider or to tell him the truth. both options are sympathetic

[robust laurel]

Gaining someone’s trust doesn’t mean manipulation. One doesn’t logically follow from the other. Likewise, sending someone on missions doesn’t imply manipulation either. These are simply logical fallacies.

[normal drum]

Skif may betray Strider in SIRCAA and still go the Strelok way.

[robust laurel]

And that's literally not true at all.

[jagged hull]

isnt the choice for siding with ward locked in a fair bit earlier

[robust laurel]

?

You can actually become an enemy of Strider and still reach Strelok’s line.

[jagged hull]

whatever i may be misremembering - point still stands, skif gets the pleasure of meeting strider either way, some connection is there. and whether or not skif sides with ward or noon in sircaa doesnt mean much - even if skif is a loyal follower of ward, most of ward including korshunov see ex-noontider as victims rather than targets and iirc that view is expressed very early on

what i mean is that being sympathetic to noon isnt a rare view to hold between the main acting factions

[robust laurel]

I’ll say it again: Skif’s goal is to “save the Zone.” What makes you think he cares about the Monolith, when that literally doesn’t have to be the case? Of course, it could matter if you choose Strider in SIRCAA. However, if you don’t choose him, he literally becomes an enemy and might even be angry at Skif — or cry, and you can even tell him, “I don’t feel sorry.”

[jagged hull]

thats besides the point since skif still goes out to bring the regenerator to strider whether or not he betrays noon

[robust laurel]

But not because he sympathizes. It could be a practical goal aimed at getting information from the Doctor.

[true snow]

atp, thats everyone's goal

[robust laurel]

Not Ward line

[strong flume]

I wonder if we'll get new endings with the DLCs

[true snow]

what if... skif was just having a really bad dream

[normal drum]

Strelok didn't like Monolithians as Skif finds a note mentioning it, on the Wild Island, Skif knew which path he's going with Strelok.

[true snow]

heh, kidding

[jagged hull]

skif also killed mercs hired by him on multiple occassions, what can we interpret from that

i dont think its fair to assume that the note is critical to skifs character progression

or understanding of the world

[normal drum]

Skif was defending himself, and Strelok explained using mercs was necessary if you don't have allies

[jagged hull]

either way what i meant to say that both of these things can go whichever way is suitable for the story without making many contradictions

a skif who sympathized with strider can find the note and it doesnt make much of a difference although it'd be cool to see a few throwaway lines for that

[robust laurel]

Or the final cutscene was deliberately made so that multiple interpretations could be seen.

[jagged hull]

some elements accommodate for that, others not so much

[ornate venture]

jasonbreen has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[crude topaz]

Yes, but i dont see it as a self sacrifice, well not a total one. Skif gives up his body in the pod, but his mind joins the zone? Its like a weird co authorship thing

[jagged hull]

from what we know its mostly a one way deal so there is something that skif sacrifices

from there on hes just the landlord of the zone

its up to you whether its worth it i guess. i think skif did sacrifice a lot of himself along the way tho, killing that many people does something to you

[crude topaz]

It does, and thats why i think he went in the pod, or at least, its part of why I go with that ending, something about being too deep in to back out

[normal drum]

I cannot currently access the English localisation file, so I'll just manually translate what Skif's position was after he chose Strelok's path. If this doesn't make you believe Skif was contented with the ending, I don't know what will:

(Dialogue with Doctor)

"We need to get to Prypiat and destroy the STALKER program control center. Strelok will then be able to free Zone from everyone who wants to enslave her. Now and in the future."

"Her invitation was hard to ignore. But this adventure gave me more than I was looking for. I'm close to what I really need... Home. Not just an appartment, the whole Zone, beautiful as she is. And the goal - to protect from any attempts to change her, from outside and inside."

"He wants to destroy everything what induces those illusions, and he's right. It's necessary to free people from the illusions. And the Zone, too."

(Dialogue choices after Doctor's death, also the player's argumentation of why he chose Strelok)

"The Zone must be free"
"Until the past doesn't keep you hostage, it's impossible to be truly free. Kaymanov didn't understand, what miracle he created."

"I didn't trust Doctor"
"Because Kaymanov was sending Strelok to his death hoping to fix his mistake with someone else's hands. He's a manipulator just like Scar or Korshunov."

"Strelok is my ally"
"Because Strelok asked me to. Call it what you want but he helped me a lot. Even if it's just a revenge..."

This is what Skif thinks, not the player. Player may mourn Strider and Noon etc. as much as they want but it wasn't what was in Skif's mind.

[robust laurel]

Considering whether Skif is being “manipulated” doesn’t really hold up, because all of his actions are ultimately his own decisions, guided by the player. Since the player makes the choices, labeling the ending as manipulation misrepresents the situation.

Arguments for manipulation often rely on subjective interpretations rather than concrete in-game evidence. For example, Skif’s apparent apathy or doubts are sometimes read as a sign of being manipulated, but there is no line or event in the game that demonstrates deception, hidden motives, or coercion. The character’s intentions and goals—such as protecting the Zone or considering it his new home—are explicitly stated, so projecting feelings of betrayal or being controlled onto him is a matter of personal interpretation, not factual proof.

In short, talking about manipulation in this context doesn’t align with the actual events of the game; it confuses emotional reading of the story with concrete narrative facts.

It feels odd to talk about Skif being “manipulated” when his actions are controlled by the player. In the context of the story, true manipulation would have to be much more obvious. If someone perceives manipulation, it usually means they personally wouldn’t choose that story path—but that doesn’t make it a fact. Presenting it as actual manipulation risks implying that everyone who enjoyed other endings was somehow “tricked” or “fooled,” which isn’t fair or accurate.

For example, I genuinely enjoy the Ward and Strelok line, and I knew in advance what the outcomes would be when I chose them. I never felt like “I was deceived,” because I paid close attention to what the characters said and knew what to expect.

[crude topaz]

well ye, but it makes more sense when youput yourself in skif's position

basically, have skif be a stand-in for you the player

also, dont forget, everyone and everything in the zone has an agenda

[jagged hull]

thats genuinely not my intention to reduce the players choices, its just an interesting direction that the game took that shouldnt be ignored

as for how we should account for choices being made, i think the most consistent way is to just see the different paths that skif can take as shadows of certain parts of his psyche that always exist

no matter what happens there is always the part of skif that will side with ward because of his military background, the part of skif that sides with scar because he believes in miracles and so on

[robust laurel]

But it will still be an emotional interpretation.

[jagged hull]

what do you mean

its just a framework to account for different variations of a character when none of them are canon (so far)

the game doesnt try to break the 4th wall so i dont see a reason to include the player in this

its up to the player to include themselves

[robust laurel]

I mean, to say with certainty that Skif is being manipulated is inappropriate, especially considering that in all the endings exactly what we are promised happens. But I wrote about this in more detail here
#s2-lore-discussions message

[jagged hull]

just quoting from the text posted by kiberukrainiec
"Because Kaymanov was sending Strelok to his death hoping to fix his mistake with someone else's hands. He's a manipulator just like Scar or Korshunov."
the game points to this. being a thing, even implies that soc was partly strelok being manipulated

[robust laurel]

But what does this have to do with whether Skif is being manipulated?

[jagged hull]

scar, korshunov and doctor are named by him as manipulators once he joins strelok?

except strelok apparently whos definately a good guy and skif is not biased

[robust laurel]

This is like one of the arguments that the player can choose if he thinks so. But this is a point of view and not the truth as a fact that is really being manipulated

[jagged hull]

so the game just throws this line out of skifs mouth for no reason

maybe we can say that about some of the other lines if we want to

[robust laurel]

I'll say it again. This is one of the options that the player chooses.

[jagged hull]

what does that change?

there being one choice does not invalidate another, everything adds up to the full picture

its why the game is meant to be played 4 times

[robust laurel]

The fact that a point of view is not an argument but a point of view? Are you serious, does this really need to be explained?

[jagged hull]

i ask again then, can i disregard any line i dont like?

[robust laurel]

Who says ignore? I'm saying that Skif's point of view in this version of the dialogue does not automatically become the truth in the big picture lol