s2-lore-discussions

[fossil depot]

Ever opened the map? The encyclopedia? Ever read dialogues talking about how locations are positioned relative to each other?
Explained before; I can understand them doing it solely from a resource-constraint perspective. Nothing else; I consider all the directions non-canon unless they're in their realistic positions.

You can continue trying to create stupid headcanons to retrofit the old events into the new map, or you can just admit they majorly f’d up with it.
There's nothing to admit, because nothing they did is wrong. If anything, they should've made it as close as possible to reality, but I can live with compromises. I'm not that inane to demand 500% realism.

I shit on S2 map placement and I think it would have been a lot better game if they just went with trilogy map placement and filled the areas in-between with new levels and landmarks.
And I'd oppose that because the trilogy's map doesn't make any sense and besides, the trilogy's map basically reeks of 'Space Anomalies distorted any sense of direction'.

Anyways, this is my final response to you; your hostility makes conversation impossible and I've got a sanity to maintain.

[vital pollen]

Alternative reality does not change the Earth’s geography.

Why would it not?

It actually got the geography wrong

It didn’t get it wrong, again, it consciously decided to not limit itself with it. And no, this isn’t out of some made-up technical limitations, there is no technical limitation that made them e.g. move Prypiat, it was purely gameplay. The Zone was always a collection of iconic landmarks in an otherwise made-up world.

In that case, trilogy map is even more of a disgrace because there's no world coherence, to start with, due to disconnected maps and they screwed up the positions far worse. S2 has tried to bridge some of that back, which is good.

You fail to understand what world coherence means. There was a world coherence despite loading screens, those levels still existed on one big connected map. S2 should have used that as a base instead of trying to reinvent the wheel and ruin the lore.

trilogy's map doesn't make any sense and besides, the trilogy's map basically reeks of 'Space Anomalies distorted any sense of direction'

Space Anomalies did not even exist as a concept when SoC was being created. Again, that “reeks” falls into the stupid headcanons category I mentioned above, where you are trying to excuse inane changes with even more inane explanations.

[forest fractal]

Yeah I know they just should have left the position of the scorcher and pripjat south of the cnpp

But there is still the thing that the geography of the zone changes which could explain it...^^

[vital pollen]

I mean, it is a fan theory, there is nothing supporting it in the games

[forest fractal]

Yeah it was a joke ^^

[winter mauve]

And we dont care if we dont play accuratly on google Maps

[forest fractal]

Its just a mainstream thing, for mainstream players its a thing that the location kinda redembles the real life geography, but for long term fans its ofc kinda ridiculous that in a world were mutants, anomalies and a noosphere exist, the realism of geography suddenly matters^^

I also think that people tend to link the game close to reality cause they think the cnpp incident created the zone, which is actually not true because the creation of the zone happened later. So the link to real events is much smaller many people think

Also moving the brain scorcher was a big mistake. If they would have left it south to pripjat at least you could have incorparated into the main story on your way to pripjat, were you cross it and find some hints/dialogs which tells the player about what did happen here in the past

The location of pripjat I am not sure about. I like the positioning at least a bit wesr of the cnpp. You could have made this work by proper position of the scorcher and still make it work. The position of prypjat in the original games was imo kina odd because it only served as a connection to the cnpp and didnt respect the role of the place in the lore properly, esp since at its lore loaction it would prop have been under the inluence of the scorcher and how the strelok group could have gone there before shutdown? So moving it a bit west, the path there still blocked by scorcher is a good thing (ofc not as far north as in s2).

[vital pollen]

There are still things pointing to Prypiat being inaccessible before brain scorcher got disabled, even though Strelok did have a stash there

[proven wolf]

That's not the point the being made.

The issue is, STALKER had an already established layout of the zone with what goes where, as in SoC.

The devs in S2, ruined all this in favour of making a map that isn't correct to the real world map either, so what was the point of changing the map and ruining what was already established?

The could have made an open world map of the already established lore, and just fleshed the zone out more.

[vital pollen]

^

People like to pretend as if it is impossible to make an open world map while keeping the relative position of the locations intact

[winter mauve]

I didnt discovered STALKER licence with the first games, may I'm indulgent on this because I'm not attached to the previous maps as you are.
I dunno

Fair enough tho, I can understand your point

[silent seal]

I'm sure that the devs would have made a map more akin to the one that we have now if they did not face the technical limitations at the time.

[vital pollen]

We know they wouldn’t though. We have hundreds of gigabytes of development content, we don’t need to theorize as we can track how ideas morphed. Open world was considered for a short while, yet realistic geography was never on the table.

Even in CoP, where they went with real points of interest for Zaton and Jupiter, they crammed them so that they’re all close to each other, the positioning and distance was never a concern. And when replicating the first Prypiat district, devs still took some buildings such as the Post building and the grocery store from other districts, again, simply because more interesting gameplay takes precedence over geographic accuracy.

And what kind of “technical limitations” would force the devs to position level on the map differently? :) It’s very obviously an intentional decision, not one done out of any technicalities.

[winter mauve]

Has the "monitor room (/ coridor)" a name ? The one you find Scar at the right end of the game ? With full of TVs brainwashing STALKERs to make agents

[timber forum]

Agent center

[jagged hull]

the buildings in pripyat (SoC) are placed in such a way that the game needs to render less objects

[timber forum]

Brainwash center

Agent Brainwash room

[jagged hull]

neuroprogramming lab is the official name i think

[timber forum]

Close enough

I thing it basically that

[winter mauve]

because there is no STALKER Wiki page on that location, right ?

So I doubt if it's even mentioned somewhere

[jagged hull]

its mentioned in mission objectives

[winter mauve]

Watchin' a playthought and it says "Get To The Marking Room"

[jagged hull]

im not sure where it is mentioned but it is mentioned in some objective

i doubt i just came up with that name on the fly

[winter mauve]

https://youtu.be/O-aa3oa67Iw?si=m21MTC87HMtAN0K_&t=888

timecoded

And this sequence with Scar living with Marshall's memories inside his brain, leading me to a question :

At the end of CS, how C-Cons knew Scar was Scar and reprogrammed him, and not knowing Strelok was Strelok (and reprogram him with someone else memories) ?

[vital pollen]

That’s true, they added a few large buildings, but have you seen how they wee placed in 2004 builds? The layout was mostly the same except of those. Did that scream geographical accuracy to you?

[jagged hull]

just pointing out an example of what you said isnt a thing

[vital pollen]

I was talking about level positioning and how close levels are replicated to real life counterparts in the first place.

Devs obviously made changes to levels to optimize them. But in case of Prypiat, the layout was fictionalised even before that.

[elder bobcat]

It depends on the walkthrough. If you've sided with Strelok/Kaymanov, the mission objective is called "Get to the Neurolaboratory". If you've sided with the Ward, it's "Clear the path to the Neurolab/Get to the Marking Room" (10:27 on the video you've linked).

[winter mauve]

Confusing !

[late falcon]

The PDA entries from the documents collected there refer to it as Neurolaboratory no matter what.

[jagged hull]

ig i mixed up neurolaboratory with neuroprogramming lab

[winter mauve]

I request a proper Wiki page on that room

[fathom veldt]

CoP is very small, whole trillogy is very small. Not to mention low textures/relatively low object count. Technical limitations are several, since its open world and objects must be streamed and you kind of have to limit it and players hardware is very different. What would make to place it differently ? let's see maybe because original map was crap? that was done back then because of technical limitations just like so, even at that time it seemed big. Why now like so? whooh for many reasons i think

ai seemed better back then though 😄 but i guess there was some special autist who wrote thousands of if statements

[manic crown]

do you guys think a controller could make two stalkers kiss

[fathom veldt]

why do you think all zombies around him are male stalkers?

[shrewd igloo]

yes, the world needs more love and S2 has that opportunity.

[manic crown]

thank you

[frosty ridge]

Oh my god its a variometer

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this or talked about it, I saw a reddit post vaguely alluding to this question, but I just realized they're right

The machine in the Foundation, the one Korshunov and Agatha want to get moving, the huge spinny thing with the rings -- thats a massive variometer

its hard to see in the darkness but if you look at the scene in the ending where Skif removes the broken variometer from the C-Con's OCTA machine and puts the Heart of Chernobyl in, the rings are lying in the bottom of the pedestal

its the same device, the one in the foundation is just much bigger

Kymanov's line about how "if they had just built a larger variometer they could've replaced all the scientists" isn't throwaway - its a hint at the Foundation variometer!

that thing is working to create a facsimile of eight minds, so the "C-Con" program we meet in STALKER 2 (and AGATHA in the Ward route when she's slotted into the console) can try to exert control of the network without having their own bodies in the OCTA

Yet another great parallel between Dmytro and Kymanov, with the younger Dalin destroying the variometer to stop his father just like Kymanov did in 2006

[frosty ridge]

Does it count if the controller is Faust and one of the stalkers is Faust and the other stalker is Strider?

[frosty ridge]

If you read Strelok's diary entries throughout the game (he actually writes them as the Marked One as you progress the plot) he notes after finding Ghost that Ghost was the man in the photograph attached to the "Kill the Strelok" task. This was C-Con's big mistake: they assumed the man in the center of the photo they had of Strelok's gang was Strelok, and the guy with his face not shown off to the side was Ghost - in reality, it was the other way around. Strelok accidentally catfished the C-Con so they didn't identify him when sending him to be marked.

[winter mauve]

ooohhhhhh nice one. And Ghost hasn't been captured by the C-Cons right ?

[frosty ridge]

Ghost was never captured, he ended up dying in the Yantar complex to a controller

[winter mauve]

But not on when exactly did he die. Between the end of CS and the moment we find his corpse

[frosty ridge]

Yeah he died around then, we know he visited the region around the Red Forest/Yanov since he hid a message for Strelok around there regarding Fang's death, but then he ended up going off to Yantar and dying

[frosty ridge]

This fact is also infinitely funnier with the context that the C-Con could view out of their Agents' eyes. One must imagine the C-Con freaking out as they realize they've been hunting the wrong guy

[winter mauve]

So can we presume the C-Cons learnt the Market One was Strelok at the same moment the player does ?

[frosty ridge]

They may have been realizing it beforehand. As the Marked One just kept surviving and getting closer to the truth, especially as they realized the brainwashing failed, they probably started to theorize he was Strelok

We know from his X7 agent profile that they realized the brainwashing had failed

My guess is they learned he was Strelok sometime between Yantar and the Scorcher. By the time they send the vision of the Monolith saying "come to me" I think they know

That's basically them going "SHITSHITSHIT GET HIM BACK RIGHT NOW THE AGENT IS ROGUE"

[frosty ridge]

wait hold on i have a better joke for this

Yes, but only when Faust is officiating Skif and Richter's wedding

[fathom veldt]

are you asking after c-con attempted to brainwash Strelok and failed and just wiped memory and then forgot they did that? Also ordered other stalkers to kill Strelok

[winter mauve]

Do we know if C Cons tried to brainwash him ?

[fathom veldt]

who is we? It's basically what happened and Marked One he is called because he had a tattoo and no memory. That tattoo meaning he underwent stalker program

[bright vapor]

It's specifically mentioned in his file

[proven wolf]

Not to mention, seeing Strelok in hallway at the end of CS, under going the process.

[proven wolf]

They knew. And it was them, that told you that the process went wrong. As per the ending of SoC.

[vapid spire]

How did they see through their agents eyes again? Did they use the noosphere?

[fossil depot]

That, or maybe cybernetic implants.

[vapid spire]

They might be using the noosphere cause sircaa was able to see through skifs eyes the same way.

I didnt finish the ward story so I dont know when sircaa could have put a camera in skif's eye.

[fossil depot]

Well, in other paths, Korshunov knocks you out, so...well, at least if you choose to escape.

Of course, the most valid explanation is the Noosphere, via directed psionic emissions (like the Reapers and Leviathans from Mass Effect).

[vapid spire]

If korsh knocks you out then you get locked out of the ward ending.

[fossil depot]

I know, just stating the ways they can implant cybernetics, since it's easier that way, but yes...IDK about Ward path, NGL.

[pearl mirage]

Question Ive wondered is, how Radioactive are a lot of our favorite artifacts. Some like the Compass obviously will kill Skif quickly, but how dangerous is it in raw numbers?

[candid pilot]

That'll be an instant death

[late falcon]

I think it could be possible to come up with a method to estimate the radiation output of artifacts, but it will have to rely on many hypotheses.

[candid pilot]

Since the stacking of identical artifacts are sum up their positive effects, they are onto the counterside also adding their radiation effects.

[limpid robin]

Anomalous are you cooking some more lore stuff for s2 youtube? This variometer stuff is extremely interesting

[late falcon]

Yes, I am working on more lore videos. It is unfortunate that my production has diminished so much but it is what it is. Please be patient

[pearl mirage]

Tempted to disable mods, and just put, using the compass as the example, on only, as see how long it takes to kill skif, then see what a fatal dose like that is, or at minimum knock someone out. Do the same for a medium and Low artifact, compare times and see if things line up.

[late falcon]

Yes, that would be a method. However, you have to decide how you will count time: as per the in-game clock, or in real time.

[pearl mirage]

That is a good point. What is the time ratio

[late falcon]

Also, I am not sure if such things are linear

[late falcon]

1h IRL = 24h in-game

[pearl mirage]

Its more looking at how much radiation is aborbed by the body, so it definitely is more of how much in a different time frame.

Getting to a 20 Sv level as a possible benchmark, since its around that dose the body just shuts down

[late falcon]

Well that ought to be interesting, please share what you find

[pearl mirage]

Doing some mild math while at work and unable to get into the Zone.

Using an Hour as a test, and 20 Sv as the goal. Each minute the Compass for example is held, is .33 Sv.

The average CT scan is only .01 Sv. 33 CT scans per minute just from holding the funny orb.

It would take around 15 minutes to reach 5 Sv, a fatal dose without immediate and advanced medical care.

[late falcon]

Impressive

[pearl mirage]

Another fun fact is this timeframe is still consider an Acute dose, since it's less than 24 hours.

[pearl mirage]

Doing these tests, wondering what armors might be good to compare times, see if they actually change anything.

[winter mauve]

@late falcon Très bonne vidéos, je les dévore 😎

[late falcon]

[robust laurel]

So, in response to some guy’s words about Agatha and Herman, where there’s supposedly a choice involving his elimination, I decided to share the real lore of everything happening in the game. Since I’m a friendly person, I’ll also share the truth with you. Here’s my excerpt:

*No way, it was Herman who set up a test for us.
He planned it all from the very beginning. Even at the start of the game, you could see him kicking an illusion of a crow, which burned up from the hit—just like the illusions we loot. Herman created this powerful induced illusion of the Zone, forcing everyone to go there as if it were real, so he could conduct his inhuman experiments on people’s psyches.

The test with Agatha inside the induced illusion of SIRCAA was meant to check how far Skif had gone mad under the influence of PSI emissions and induced illusions—whether he was capable of killing his buddy, Herman’s loyal friend.

This also explains why Skif is completely unaffected by PSI emissions without any protective gear at all. All the illusory stalkers around him are easily manipulated by PSI emitters, while Skif himself even seems to activate such emitters when he’s right in their epicenter. Yet he doesn’t care one bit—doesn’t flinch, doesn’t react, nothing.

Now it all makes sense: it’s because everything is just Herman’s induced illusion, and Skif is basically already “zombified.” He believes his story as if the Zone truly exists, as if something ||censored|| his home. But in reality, it’s all just the tricks of the insidious scientist Herman, obsessed with his cannibalistic ideas.*

[fossil depot]

So...basically, Hermann used the Oasis to trap Skif and make him live a fake life...

[ornate venture]

rollingdagger. has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[edgy sentinel]

do we know what is planned to be in 1.6?

[vapid spire]

Will there be any videos with mdst and their connections with scar?

Mdst were basically the ones behind the shining zone plan.

[fathom veldt]

let's hope it is not a master mode, were we had a veteran mode which basically means less reward for higher risk and npc's has more HP hmm how innovative and thought through

[pearl mirage]

Doing these now, using the unmodified leather jacket as the base.

It took 3:45 in real time to reach maximum dose with the Compass so far, but the heal decrease is slow, so I might have to change my end for the maximum dose since Skif doesnt just keel over

[pearl mirage]

SO

Using 1 Sv at a benchmark for a full radation bar, and 4 artifacts I already had on that save, I found the times, converted them to in game time, and the rough radation dosage per in game minute of the unshielded artifacts

• Compass, Maximum: 3:45 minutes (1 hour 30 minutes in game)
• Broken Rock, Strong: 8:15 minutes (3 hours 18 minutes in game)
• Soul, Medium: 16:30 minutes (6 hours 36 minutes in game)
• Pebble, Weak: 28:30 minutes (11 hours 24 minutes in game)

So Doses per minute

• Compass: 0.011 Sv/min (11 mSv/min) [1 CT scan per minute]
• Broken Rock: 0.005 Sv/Min (5 mSv/Min) [50x the natural background radiation absorbed per year in 1 minute]
• Soul: 0.00253 Sv/min (2.5 mSv/min) [25 chest X-rays each minute]
• Pebble: 0.00146 Sv/min (1.5 mSv/min) [2 minutes to reach the average natural yearly dose of 2 mSv]

[fossil depot]

Damn...that's in-depth.

[late falcon]

Yes

[pearl mirage]

I dont pick the hyper fixation, I roll with them

[robust laurel]

Actually, it's interesting. Faust has a cloak on his belt (the same one as the Doctor) on his character model throughout the game, while in the final scene when he takes off the Doctor's cloak, the cloak is no longer on the model. A very interesting detail.
#📸┃screens_and_videos message

[fathom veldt]

be careful, now people will say that Doctor was a Faust 😄

[frosty ridge]

I always like hearing weird and outlandish theories, but I would be remiss if not to state that the crow is obviously burnt from the emission just prior. STALKER 2 seems to take the idea of emissions having a "heat" to them quite literally, with entities effected by them being burnt (like the crows)

[robust laurel]

Maybe in the next video I should look for more details in the game regarding this theory.

But as I said in the Ukrainian-language chat, I regret not mentioning in the video that the Doctor didn’t actually want freedom for the Zone in Chornobyl. What he really wanted was to create new ones. This isn’t an obvious stance or idea, but if you carefully listen to all the dialogues in the game and read the notes, you can understand it.

[normal drum]

Nah, that's definitely Herman's induced illusions

[frosty ridge]

He did want freedom for the Zone, though, that's the crux of his ideology. It's just that he doesn't have the limited view of "freedom" Strelok has in which freedom is being sealed away from the world. He literally says the Zone has a heart that craves freedom in the last conversation with him. Kymanov's whole thing is spelled out when he talks about the behaviors of dogs: you cannot learn freedom from within a cage. "The Zone in Chernobyl" means nothing - it is not separate from other Zones, they are all one thing - the Zone is a rift into the noosphere, which is a reflection of humanity. If we want "the Zone" to be free, all of humanity must be free, and so all cages must come down and the rifts must spread across the planet. Only once Project Y has been enacted can everyone (and the Zone, as it reflects us) finally begin the journey to learning true freedom

[robust laurel]

I already said that the idea is not obvious, and I don't have time to explain why. Maybe @normal drum has a desire

And also I don't know English well enough for this.

[normal drum]

Doctor gave an example with dogs so we could understand - things, born in captivity, cannot change and become good, even if you give them freedom. Chornobyl Zone is a monster and will always be it, that's why Doctor wanted to create "good" Zones, born in freedom from the start.

[normal drum]

Meh, don't wanna really be stuck in an another 9-hour conversation (I've already lost 2 days to explain the difference between "control over the anomalous energy" and "control over the Noosphere")

[fathom veldt]

part about dogs is metaphor about Strelok

[robust laurel]

@frosty ridge I'll make another video about Stalker 2 someday where I'll explain it in detail and there will be English subtitles right away.

[fathom veldt]

i think its a word play what you speak about, zone expanding = freedom for the zone, other parts also might be right what you say

[robust laurel]

Well, you could just present your arguments point by point as usual

[normal drum]

would be better if discord had an automatic translation feature to read Ukrainian lore channel

[normal drum]

It's both, Strelok sees the Chornobyl Zone as his ideal world - full of negativity, beauty, unsolved mysteries that needs to be protected from everyone. Strelok experienced experiments on him and didn't want the same both for himself and the Zone, that's why he's aggressive to everyone just like a blind dog.

[robust laurel]

Here is a very simplified explanation. But it is in Ukrainian.
#❔┃сюжет message

#❔┃сюжет message

To prove this position, you will have to write a lot and explain a lot of details. It is difficult to explain in simple words.

And @normal drum does not want to spend a lot of time either

And I don't know English well enough to explain this.

[normal drum]

"The Zone is a monster from the darkest realm of creation. I unleashed it upon us all, and this can hardly be undone." - Doctor

[frosty ridge]

I understand the reading, and I looked over this with a translator too, but I still disagree. While you're half right, there is more nuance than that.

Right after describing if the Zone had been born differently, he says "And then we might have become different too. We always had the ability to overcome the circumstances." He believes the Zone has become this way due to its circumstances, but he simultaneously thinks those circumstances can be overcome and advocates for forgiveness the very next line ("understanding and forgiving each other is a difficult endeavor). This Zone cannot be as "good" as another rift in the Noosphere which wasn't influenced by experiments and the violent history of Chernobyl, but it (like us) must be allowed freedom to facilitate the creation of those new people (and new Zones). Saying "It will always be a monster" is too simple. You and I are born in societies full of greed and violence, and that does definitely influence the type of people we become, but it would be wrong to say "we will always be monsters." We must have the power to forgive, to try to improve ourselves, and we must give everyone freedom - even those who have grown up in a cage - or else those truly free people who grow up in a world without the greed of our current societies cannot exist.

I know this server has a rule against politics, but I have to say it because the metaphor is so clear: Doctor is describing the economic transition to communism. We exist under a system of capitalist exploitation, we have developed antisocial behaviors as a result of that system, and we are stuck with some of those behaviors for the rest of our lives - but we must also use the agency we have to overcome that as much as we can and build a new system which will not imprint such antisociality upon new generations.

We are the blind dogs in the metaphor, we are scarred by the world we have grown up in, but we have to fight to make a better one for the next generation.

And that fight means we must be free too, even though we are not perfect

[robust laurel]

That's why Skif frees the Zone with Richter. The Doctor had a cage in his head that "it's impossible". While Skif proved it was possible, the Doctor simply didn't know the way.

[elder bobcat]

I don't know why you've wasted so much time to explain something Doctor Vavylov in SIRCAA has already established: it goes along the lines of "we use to call the energy extracted from the Noosphere "anomalous".

[robust laurel]

This was a meta reference to another discussion and more of a joke addressed to me

[elder bobcat]

And then 15 years have passed since the Second disaster — I wonder if people, especially scientists, tend to change their perception after a decade & a half of observing.

[normal drum]

I agree with you, "good" is really exaggeration, I agree about the "humanity's mirror", new Zones would be basically analogies of the Dead Vallies, and that totally will be the challenge for humanity to survive and adjust. But the Chornobyl Zone was born differently and is different, Doctor didn't believe in the Chornobyl Zone, that's why he never asked Skif to claim the capsule, because the Zone was a "blind dog". To claim the capsule to free the Chornobyl Zone was all Skif's and Richter's idea.

[robust laurel]

There are reasons why it's better not to know why this gif exists
#📸┃скріншоти-та-відео message

[normal drum]

Skif's and Richter's*

[robust laurel]

And in another version of events, Richter and Skiff also talk about the cage only in the Doctor's head, which makes sense.

[fossil depot]

I can see that.

Interesting discussion, up there...

Doctor is describing the economic transition to communism. We exist under a system of capitalist exploitation, we have developed antisocial behaviors as a result of that system, and we are stuck with some of those behaviors for the rest of our lives - but we must also use the agency we have to overcome that as much as we can and build a new system which will not imprint such antisociality upon new generations.
Strider had a good thing going, banning money (hence, the stupidity of trade) and alcohol. Something that the rest of society has major, MAJOR skill issues doing. I guess Strider truly was too idealistic, eh?

OTOH, Faust realized that such idealism needed a real heavy hand to implement because others would never accept it willingly. Guess that's what led to the schism.

[jagged hull]

i like this cultural exchange between the english and ukrainian chats

[robust laurel]

You can't even imagine what discussions used to take place in the Ukrainian chat. However, it's quiet there now because we've already discussed everything and are waiting for the DLC.

That's why we're here

[jagged hull]

i think the same could be said about this chat although i doubt that its at the same level

[fathom veldt]

same here, but difference is that it happened several times

[vital pollen]

weekly #s2-lore-discussions schedule:

monday: is doc really faust
tuesday: clear sky retcons
wednesday: map changes
...

[fathom veldt]

yeah man, that's an epic description 😄

[robust laurel]

I'm glad that no one has discussed Faust and the Doctor in our topic for a long time. It has become a marginal discussion

[fossil depot]

Let me start: Are Faust and Doctor truly the same person?

||Hate me later.😏||

[robust laurel]

Nope

I don't know if you have such discussions. But for us, in recent months, it's basically the same topic: "Is the Doctor good?" or "Is the Strilets good?" and "Which of them really free the Zone."

Spoiler: ||Skif ||

Meta spoiler: ||I think Strilets||

Literally every time I go into the #❔┃сюжет chat I see the same topic

[fossil depot]

Tell them to come here...then we can all fight over it.

[robust laurel]

Most of the people sitting there don't know English like me

There are many English terms in the game that sound different in Ukrainian, which will cause confusion.

[fossil depot]

Yes, but that makes it even better...they can learn English while we all fight in a massive STALKER: WWE Edition!

[robust laurel]

Well, I actually came here to throw this topic in. I guess this is something new for you.

[fossil depot]

It is; I've not read of that theory at all. Interesting, NGL.

[fathom veldt]

interesting topic, but first, what is good?

[robust laurel]

I mean, people ask moral questions.

Which don't have much of an answer

[fossil depot]

Actually, there's an answer. The good...is Better Ballistics. 😏

[robust laurel]

And if the question is specifically about which one of them, then I answered in spoilers

Personally, Strilets ideological stance (about individual freedom) is much closer to me. Although I myself reached Ward’s ending and consider it the best one for the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. world.

Though, funnily enough, I once made ideological coordinates for the endings.

But they are in Ukrainian
#📸┃скріншоти-та-відео message

[proven wolf]

as long as you don't have to deal the games BS'tery

then it's fine... if not, then it becomes frustrating

[fossil depot]

Yea, but with BB, all the crap gets solved when it comes to gun-play.

I swear, these phuckers go all out in every channel.

[proven wolf]

Yeah, like mercs spawning in slag heap, and shooting you as soon as you walk outside and not getting enough time to pull your gun out.

Fantastic, constantly getting one shotted.

[fossil depot]

My condolences for that, NGL.

[robust laurel]

@sour galleon

[fossil depot]

Zanks for deleting.

[sour galleon]

Pleasure

[pearl mirage]

What are some of the worst theories yall have heard before

[robust laurel]

Doctor Faust

[normal drum]

Skif is Zone's Agent

[jagged hull]

one day you will feel very stupid

[robust laurel]

I’ve said this before: if at some point the writer actually decides to explain it with something like, “Well, the whole game he was just pretending to be the Doctor, but in reality he’s Faust”, then I’ll just wash my hands of it and stop analyzing the plot of Stalker 2 altogether. The number of plot holes that would create is beyond words. As we say here, “if the barn’s on fire, let the house burn too”—I won’t take part in that madness

[jagged hull]

i really cant think of many fatal plotholes that cant be explained by a high level of scheming that fits within what we see in the story already

its a bit of a nutty theory but i think its safe to see that we are missing something in regards to doctor and faust, otherwise the ending speech lacks any substance

[robust laurel]

I mentioned all these holes and arguments in the video. I don't want to repeat myself.

[jagged hull]

sure

im not in the mood either

[robust laurel]

Not because of the mood. I mean that I would be willing to listen to counterarguments. But there was little point in giving the same arguments.

[jagged hull]

a topic for another day

[fathom veldt]

everybody delulu with Doctor Faust but these foolish naïve ignorant earth worms do not realize that Faust was always a Doctor in disguise 😄

[robust laurel]

And in general, what are the versions regarding the final scene in the chat? Metaphor? Subtle matter? Something else?

[fathom veldt]

very different, but basically on a teaser that he turns into Faust (also reference to Jesus), and quates Luke (giving a speach about revelation), disregarding that Faust ordered to kill Doc, Faust doesn't know sh1t about science (being experiment), and ignoring that good doctor is lying on the grass after super emission

[robust laurel]

Why did you retold my video?

[pearl mirage]

What's the video, Im curious on this theory, both sides. I've had my own since I saw the ending the first time but its more head canon than anything else

[robust laurel]

I have no right to post this here

[fathom veldt]

its basically few people only have this opinion, i am always eager to know why, but don't get good answers, but most in here and other streamers has this in short story telling the same thing. I mean it would make more sense if Faust impersonated Dalin 😄

[robust laurel]

In fact, the main problem and contradiction there is with the attack on Varan's people.

[robust laurel]

By the way, I heard a theory once that Richter is also Faust

[robust laurel]

Because of the white hair bug, people used it as an argument that the Doctor is Faust

We even had a local meme where we all started calling everyone Faust

Scar was also Faust #📸┃скріншоти-та-відео message

[pearl mirage]

I have my own stupid theory that is 100% wrong but I enjoy it, that the Zone itself had traded Faust and the Doctor. Assume Faust did die on the roof by the Duga, and the Doctor died during the Super Emission. My only proof is that Faust when from blind to having the same brown eyes as the Doctor.

Does it make sense? Nah, but I also think the Zone is a living thing, that it makes it own choices having been formed from a tear in the Noosphere.

[robust laurel]

And during the dialogue on the Duga, what color are his eyes?

[robust laurel]

Regarding the superemmision, we are not shown his body. We can only see his body if we shoot it ourselves. Then the body will be visible in the window. Otherwise, we get that Richter lied when he said he didn't see the body

[pearl mirage]

Im actually on another playthrough cause I dont remember if he was blind or actually had his eye color back

At the same time, I know I'm definitely wrong, but Im eager to hear other theories, both good and bad

[fathom veldt]

people have wild imagination 🙂

[fathom veldt]

yes it does make sense, because subtle-matter theory was introduced in S2

[fathom veldt]

that wasn't a case here, at first it was eyes theory, white eyes but also Foma, Strider at some point had it

[jagged hull]

the eye thing doesnt rly work because it would only apply to faust

[pearl mirage]

Well it's part of the trade theory. The doctor gets out, and faust comes back, if not being at least healed by the same powers the Doctor had. Traded during the super emission anyway.

[fathom veldt]

what a hell is trade?

[pearl mirage]

Faust presumably died on the Roof by the Duga, and during the Skif ending, when the Doctor cloak falls and Faust is standing there, the idea is that the Zone brought back Faust and took Doctor instead.

[proven wolf]

Strelok was an agent in SoC

[fathom veldt]

Did the concept of subtle matter escape you?

[pearl mirage]

Probably

[fathom veldt]

your theory is weird

[strong robin]

Skif is Faust 😳

[robust laurel]

I'm Faust and ||you||

He could be in this very room! He could be you. He could be me! He could even be-

[strong robin]

Ward has always struck me as shady, but seeing the board that was behind Project X collaborating with them confirmed that they definitely are not to be trusted, furthermore, finding out that Korshunov was there during the C-Con experiment and the birth of the Zone confirms beyond any doubts that the Ward is nothing but a massive cover-up operation, meant to clean up MDST's mess and utilize their leftover tech to assert control over humanity

But that raises further questions, Korshunov said he witnessed the seven scientists boiling in their pods, he was there when Kaymanov sabotaged the C-Con experiment, that's surely what he means, nobody ever reached the center before Strelok, so did C-Con as we knew it ever even exist?

[ornate venture]

unrealredfox has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[strong robin]

Are you serious

A whole paragraph I just typed out, yeah I'm not even interested in trying anymore this bot can crawl in a hole and rot

[radiant harness]

dont worry, the paragraph was dumb as all hell, he did you a favour

[strong robin]

?

[radiant harness]

i think its a pretty clear sentence

[strong robin]

I think you ought to make yourself clearer because as I'm reading it, one wouldn't say that to someone's face

But I'll leave the benefit of the doubt, that it wasn't a rude jab at my theory

[radiant harness]

i didnt say it, I wrote it on a app

[strong robin]

Then it was just an incredibly rude jab at a theory you disliked?

[radiant harness]

my man will be told shrimp sheimp fried rice and then ask himself
did a shrimp really fry this rice?

[strong robin]

@wise topaz Apologies in bothering you, but this person is acting incredibly rude, unprovoked, and I don't feel in a comfortable position having someone with mod power in this server break rule 1

[radiant harness]

lol

[jagged hull]

thats unreal

[proven wolf]

First day I joined the server, I put him on ignore.

[radiant harness]

my killcount just keeps rising

[gusty lotus]

This is crazy

O_O

[paper palm]

YOU HAVE SAID NAUGHTY WORDS AND YOU GOT PUNISHED

ACCEPT YOUR PUNISHMENT AND STOP CRYING
Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.
Revelation 3:19

[gusty lotus]

peepee poo poo put ur head in a scanner

I forgot why I came here qwq

oh yea I wanted to ask about anomaly names

actually no i dont care anymore

[paper palm]

AHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA WEAK NURGLE FOLLOWER

[pearl mirage]

I know my main man Ritcher has the headphones, do we know what he listens to?

kinda wish we could have a portable radio or music player for skif. I might not be able to understand Ukrainian but the music is great

[normal drum]

"Край, мій рідний край" (to listen to it in the game, kill Richter)

[ornate venture]

mementomori1611 has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[ornate venture]

pooooooooq has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

fergugon has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[fathom veldt]

rule number 7: forget all other rules

[jagged hull]

rule 8 dont talk about doctor's true identity

[fathom veldt]

*777 rule then

[proven wolf]

He didn't deserve my pustulence.

[vapid spire]

It's possible faust switched himself out with a double and the induced illusion was still going on when you took the pendent.

[fossil depot]

I love how there's 3 consecutive warnings up there.

WHAT...are you geniuses even doing? Getting high on Faust's drugs?

[jagged hull]

what if faust has an evil twin brother called mephistopheles or some shit and hes the one that does all the monolith stuff

[subtle drift]

Nah Faust was doing the Monolith stuff himself for the love of the game

[frosty ridge]

Yeah this is a question I haven’t seen people going after yet but I’ve been wondering it myself. It’s very suspect, since the “C-Con” we meet in S2 gives a verbatim monologue to the one we see in the end of SoC. And that giant variometer that was used to run the S2 “C-Con” had to be built sometime, so who’s to say it wasn’t constructed by the MDST themselves and the C-Con have been dead since 2006?

The only flaw here is that would make the end of SoC confusing. Strelok shot the C-Con and the whole X-Network went down right after. That seems to imply the bodies were doing SOMETHING. Unless after the ending cutscene Strelok pressed a “X Network Emergency Shutdown” button offscreen and that’s what sealed the “C-Con” off for a decade (I use quotes because I personally doubt the S2 C-Con is truly the same entity, I would guess it’s at least some sort of weird copy of their minds made in the subtle matter. But as this theory states maybe the stalker 1 C-Con was also a subtle matter imprint)

On another note, I think the SoC Wish Granter endings are more interesting with the MDST’s S2-established-beliefs in mind, specifically where they differ from the Board’s plan for Project X. While the MDST and Board believe human nature is itself inherently destructive and share an opposition to freedom and autonomy, the Board believe in control for the sake of control — Agatha literally says “the means justify the ends.” Meanwhile the MDST’s scheme was this moralistic “we must FIX humanity (by psychically lobotomizing parts of the human experience we dislike)” thing. I think this could point to why Strelok’s “humanity is corrupt, mankind must be controlled” wish gets him by far the worst fate of any wish. He’s espousing Board ideology, control for the sake of it. I think the cutscene shows what the MDST interprets this as leading to: mindless oppressive violence and death (which, again, hypocritical — these people are also horrible oppressive mass murderers, they just moralize it as trying to “cure the darkness” — but it makes sense they’d see the Board that way).

TLDR Strelok’s “mankind must be controlled” wish reminded the C-Con of their old bosses so they psychically projected nuclear war into his brain

[jagged hull]

That seems to imply the bodies were doing SOMETHING
to the best of our understanding, without their bodies or some mediator acting as their bodies, c-con has no influence on the biosphere, only the noosphere.

the main issue is that its a bit unclear what they actually need to do in the biosphere

[frosty ridge]

Not even on the Noosphere though, just the Zone (as far as Doctor explains it). And even then it’s debatable what control they have without the mediator since we see no evidence of any power at all in the decade since their deaths (seemingly they’re basically just stuck inert in the subtle world until they get contacted with the visiograph)

[jagged hull]

i think the issue is that not much can be done just from the noosphere

at least from what we know

[normal drum]

Isn't it a localisation mistake? In Ukrainian and Russian it says "Humanity is unfixable, it must be destroyed", then an illusion shows how humanity's already good in destroying themselves and Strelok remains the only one left

Correlates more with HoC Strelok not believing in humanity and not wanting to give anyone the access to the Noosphere

[pure holly]

Do we know why there are so many dead stalkers near the abandoned brain scorcher facility?

[spiral siren]

That's a good question as the brain scorcher been off over a decade

[pure holly]

Also, why are there so many geists there specifically? Since poltergeists seemingly came from the X-18 and not the brain scorcher facility

[vapid spire]

Mutants wander around.

[pure holly]

Sure but poltergeists are pretty isolationist from what we’ve seen no? I think the one other time we see a bunch of them in one place it’s X-18 and that’s because they’re trapped down there

[midnight cave]

You also do find stalkers in like some bunkers that have been brain scorched but really there shouldnt be I would think

I mean can brain scorched stalkers even sustain themselves? I assume they wouldnt know how to really do anything and just slowly fade because they dont eat or drink

Im kinda curious why certain areas are named what they are. Like Iron Forest for example

[vapid spire]

It's suppose to be a remake of the iron forest anomaly from call of pripyat which was an area full of iron pylons.

[late falcon]

I am pretty sure it was nicknamed the same way in real life too.

[fossil depot]

Well, unlike CoP, we're missing X-8.

[fossil depot]

Good question, NGL.

[vapid spire]

I think the building for lab X8 is in the game but out of bounds.

[fossil depot]

https://tenor.com/view/where-exactly-supt-joe-donovan-hudson-and-rex-wheres-the-exact-location-where-is-it-exactly-gif-23976061

[shrewd igloo]

At the south of Dormitory N16, the building below dormitory N16 has below of it "yubileiny service", but the X-8 is like an phantom

[fossil depot]

Hmm...isn't that like...the department store south of the greenhouse? or did I screw up?

[shrewd igloo]

idk

but it's an big ⬜ on the city.

[fossil depot]

Uh...I thought X-8 was like...a tall building back in CoP?

The Gauss Rifle laboratory also doesn't exist...would be fun firing it, NGL.

[shrewd igloo]

the building above X-8 is an tall square.

[shrewd igloo]

that should be on Iron Forest, as the underground.

[fossil depot]

Yea, but CoP Iron Forest was tiny as shit and basically a random sub-station. S2 Iron Forest is real, so just wondering where it'd be. Perfect place for the laboratory, though.

[fossil depot]

yea, but in S2, there's a large department store or milk packing plant, I think.

[late falcon]

They put the building above X8 back in its real life place in Prypiat, that's why it moved

[shrewd igloo]

Yes.

[fossil depot]

Yea, but IDK where it is exactly; the Pripyat in CoP is not the same placement of buildings as in S2 (since S2 has more realistic building placements).

I tried comparing with CoP map, but...well...

[shrewd igloo]

maybe u can found yubileiny if u follow the street above city communication center.

[fossil depot]

Let me check MapGenie.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1311817583351169114/1412880931903115294/1756927463463.png?ex=68b9e768&is=68b895e8&hm=836f097e0f218e1833a4275cc604f174a735101f4e0acf47b077512a6d66996e&

This is the hospital, now tell me where is Yubileiny. 'Cause I sure as hell didn't find anything.

[shrewd igloo]

the street where u can found yubeleiny is on the left side of shopping mall, above the buildings above shopping mall.

[fossil depot]

Very straight-forward... 😔

[vapid spire]

Download cheat tools and no clip around the map.

[fossil depot]

I don't need those to no-clip, I just need location.

[jagged hull]

just find it yourself with noclip

[fossil depot]

Fine, when I get to Pripyat.

[fathom veldt]

There is nothing Pripyat can keep a secret that will not come into the open.
It's just a matter of time.

[fossil depot]

I know. Everything with no-clipping.

[fossil depot]

@worn patio - thanks for #📸┃screens_and_videos message.

And don't worry, I'll glow and still survive.

[dire fern]

It’s crazy how I never knew what a poltergeist actually mean in real life dictionary and in a paranormal sense. That being said, it is loosely based on paranormal ghosts that have the ability to throw or slam doors. Some ranging to ones that can cause self inflicted harm. In the stalker universe. We can only see a somewhat chemical, thermal, electrical or normal invisible entity until we kill it to see it true form. Almost like killing an invisible demon just to see what is truly looks like. Cool aspect to look at. Here’s is the definition of Poltergeist-A poltergeist is a type of noisy, non-visible spirit or energy, derived from the German for "noisy ghost". Unlike typical ghosts focused on a location, poltergeist activity is linked to a specific person and often manifests as telekinetic events like moving objects, loud sounds, and electrical disturbances. While traditionally attributed to spirits, some theories suggest poltergeist activity may stem from a person's subconscious mind, particularly during times of stress or puberty, manifesting as psychokinetic energy.

[fossil depot]

OK, so I'm confused...why is Hermit so afraid and confused in his diaries?

[stark pier]

Hermit is quite a phenomenon, something that Chekhov mentioned. According to him, he doesn't use armor or weapons (yet still wears a Sunrise suit) and the zone doesn't consider him an enemy and leaves him alone. Even mutants do not harm him. This lead him to believe that stalkers created their own problems in the first place by entering the zone, heavily armed. He considers the zone to be what you think it is, an enemy, a place of freedom, a place of riches or a stern "wet nurse".
Thatll probs explain it

[fossil depot]

I'm talking about everything in S2.

[mighty zinc]

Man, I feel like the in-game pda isn't very helpful with keeping track of some things. I have that 8 letter code safe in Prypiat still remaining to solve in my latest playthrough and I have no idea how to solve it in-game (I know it's already solved and posted online, at least Vatislavovich has a video about it). And also that safe near the waterfront (that explodes on incorrect codes). Some search functionality and/or some more auto-tagging etc would be great, I think. In a way it's good that there are harder 'mysteries' to solve. But some extra QoL on such things might actually add to immersion. 🥺

[midnight cave]

Can we use spoilers in this channel?

[fossil depot]

Yes.

[midnight cave]

The Skif ending has me really confused as to what happened. Like if the entire events of the game was downloaded into his consciousness or what

[fathom veldt]

it's a recap and a teaser

true ending

[midnight cave]

So you think we will possibly see a zone unleashed?

[fathom veldt]

no, it is just an ending, next stories will be in same zone

most likely a time between 2021 and 2013

[spiral siren]

It could be a new spinoff

Where the zone is now everywhere, allowing the series to expand to other areas
Fukushima
Laguna Verde
3 mile island
etc

I mean a mexican STALKER spinoff with all the violence going on Mexico could work.

[fathom veldt]

you are talking nonsense, devs have released about 50% complete map just to remove all years of work and start to work on new maps?

[misty anvil]

Does anyone else feel like all the endings are a bit underwhelming?

I just watched a video with all the endings after beating the game for myself and maybe im missing context on some of them but it just feels weird

I dont think skif would ever put himself in the pod unless there is context in that ending that I missed because I only watched the ending cutscence

[ornate venture]

anrose0 has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

maksimusdikus has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[jagged hull]

i wouldnt call spinoffs nonsense, after what happens in HoC its basically impossible to raise the stakes and make anything after it have much of an impact

i doubt we are gonna get a full stalker game in the same area, especially if its taking place after HoC, although i would love to see it

i just have a hard time imagining what sort of drama could take place that wouldnt seem like a side-attraction after what we saw in HoC. maybe a full on freeplay game could work? thats about the only thing i could think of rn

[jagged hull]

people keep misunderstanding this, skif didnt have a life before the zone. he served in the military, and after leaving he sat in front of his tv in his free time, between doing various random jobs. he had no friends, no family, so his apartment being destroyed was just a fresh start for him, which pushed him to not just sit around

the various endings build on his past and present and let you kinda lean into certain aspects of the character

[misty anvil]

Yeah that does make sense and also now watching an explanation video it makes more sense why he goes into the pod after seeing it

[jagged hull]

all of the endings kinda make sense in their own way, scar's ending is the shakiest but they all expand on certain aspects of skif's character

[misty anvil]

Yeah they do now seeing the explanations they seem less weird I still dont really like the strelok ending much but thats just me ig

[jagged hull]

youre not really supposed to like the strelok ending

the whole ending sequence with strelok including all the dialogue in X7 is meant to show what strelok really is outside of the impression of him we have as a zone legend

[misty anvil]

Yeah

I guess I only followed him because he was talking about wanting a free zone and he never really specified that he was going to close it and make it so no one could get in and out

I was under the impression he was going to make it like open to everyone like how freedom says they want a free zone

[jagged hull]

strelok doesnt really see the zone as an area of the world to him its a living creature that is being tortured and needs to be saved

so looking from that perspective it makes sense to completely lock down the zone to get rid of everyone inside it

[misty anvil]

Yeah that makes more sense now playing the ending

I guess I just didnt understand what he meant when I was playing the game

[jagged hull]

its purposeful like i said its a trap for everyone who liked strelok in the og games

you dont really listen to his words, you dont really think about what he could mean and before you know it youre stuck in the zone for the rest of your miserable life

[misty anvil]

Yeah I just played all 3 of them before playing this one so I guess I got a little rose tinted seeing him and wanting to follow him

[jagged hull]

stalker 2 does this alot it reframes alot of what we thought about the characters in the trilogy

its safe to say that the things we see in the trilogy are more like retellings by others stalkers and less like a true account

[misty anvil]

Yeah I watched a video saying the thing about it

[jagged hull]

well i didnt but i see that i am not missing out

[misty anvil]

I mean how true could it be that strelok killed thousands of monthiths in like the span of a month maybe?

[jagged hull]

a lot of things can be called into question if we apply this idea more but it can get pretty sketchy

[misty anvil]

Yeah like obviously you have to have some imagination when thinking about the stories of the games

Also do we know how long each of the games took for the charecters to complete?

[jagged hull]

there are some vague estimates but i dont remember at this point

anomalous dugout did a video on this i think

[misty anvil]

Love that guy Ill have to check it out

[vapid spire]

So I'm guessing Strelok doesn't even let traders smuggle goods into the zone anymore either right?

[jagged hull]

if he has the capabilities to prevent that i dont see why he wouldnt

[proven wolf]

That's just a fancy way of saying retcon.

[jagged hull]

womp womp your favourite character strelok isnt the universal good guy you thought he is

who couldve known that an amnesiac supersoldier could actually not be a good person

[proven wolf]

What I feel about Strelok is irrelevant, they retconned the character, and you can dress it up in all the fancy words you want. It doesn't change a thing.

[jagged hull]

youre right what you feel a retcon is doesnt matter

unreliable narrators are a really basic concept in storytelling and if you just hate that you should hate a very large amount of stories

[proven wolf]

I have no interest in arguing against waffle. You just make stuff up in your head, then go through some mental gymnastics to justify it.

SoC, is not from the perspective other characters, What you do "is" Streloks story and not from any other perspective.

The writers of S2, failed the first law of continuing a story... Keep it consistent.

[jagged hull]

please block me again and save us both some time and dont interact with me

[sturdy thunder]

How do you block someone in a channel?

Oh cool, all his messages dissappeared.

[fathom veldt]

sure it is not a nonsense if you are willing to wait for another 15 years + years to finish this

[jagged hull]

well i have time i dont mind waiting lol

but seriously i have no clue what could happen after HoC

[fossil depot]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-jackson-comendo-picoca-gif-9669437860846841235

[fathom veldt]

nothing

[spiral siren]

Hmm a conversation between Huron and a bandit they comment there is a new boss on the rise in Rostok.

I wonder if DLC will show that new boss?

[sturdy thunder]

It would be cool.

[jagged hull]

i wouldnt get my hopes up so far the dlcs seem like they will just add side stories to the main campaign so there probably wont be massive shifts in power that we can see

although i am still praying for them to work differently...

[spiral siren]

I dont think you havent either explored the unknown areas, i can see potential.

[jagged hull]

oh yeah maybe if hes in another area

as in not in rostok. might be a cool way for the devs to hint at an upcoming character

we will see i guess. its weird that there are still no news about DLC

[spiral siren]

If you have been exploring these areas

[jagged hull]

KCD2 came out 4 months after stalker and now 2/3 of the dlcs for that game are out

[spiral siren]

The radiation is gone by the current patch

[jagged hull]

ive seen most of the out of bounds stuff months ago

[spiral siren]

Seen, but been there recently?

Previous patches didnt allow you to place foot on these places

Same thing with Kogorod Area

[mighty zinc]

Isn't that just Kalyna?

[spiral siren]

Kalyna it's at the swamps in Zaton

[mighty zinc]

Yes, but she plans to take over the entire Zone, doesn't she? She also has (shady) dealings with Mykluha

Forgot the details though.

[fossil depot]

Why is this shown as the Journalist's corpse in Pripyat? Based on the notes (and the bullet wound), this shouldn't be him at all...

[shrewd igloo]

There's other B/V on Venya notes, i understand that is some friend of Venya that it's on the CNPP.

[spiral siren]

She does indeed, but the bandit at slag heap also thought of joining the Mercs in last case scenario, meaning there is a 3rd player directly, Kalyna is directing plans from the shadows

Arrow, Varan, Nestor are goners cause they bit more than they could chew.

Sultan on the other hand, knows clearly that trying to go big, will end up poorly soon or later. He already had suspicions of his own crew not being loyal to him, as he suspected that Beard would do something rash after they came to an agreement.

Diplomacy can be better than going guns blazing at times

Who knows if Sonya went on hiding or managed to get rid off Sultan and Beard, but the way she does things behind people backs can be really concerning as she had Mercs ready to off them both if Skif refused to cooperate

[fossil depot]

B/V?

[shrewd igloo]

Venya is Benjamin on English or smth, and Venya in ukranian is Venya, or whatever idk.

Similar initials, differents names.

[fossil depot]

Huh...in the notes in English, it's still Venia (at least PDA).

[stark pier]

well it wouldnt be the first time the journanlist successfully faked his death...

[fossil depot]

Yea, but the way it's shown in-game (on the PDA) is that Scar/Korshunov have him almost pinned and are about to take him out...and in-game, you instead find a corpse that's been executed (meaning it's definitely not the Journalist), so the Wiki showing the corpse as being him is weird, NGL.

Or maybe it's 2 different situations in this case...

[stark pier]

Well its "up to debate" i think- and i rekon itll probs be part of a longer narrative in an expansion or something imho

like putting all that effort in the ARG etc... there has to be more to it than just some lootboxes

i think it makes narrative sense- but also just allows for more flexible story- that he faked his death as he was being chased by SIRCAA and Strelock...

and he still actually is hiding in the zone somewhere somehow

thats my take atleast

[fossil depot]

Yea, he's hiding and not dead; the guy who's now the corpse was executed, so suicide is not even a question.

[stark pier]

Yeah- Anomalous Dugout has a good video with the whole Journalist lore... same conclusion as here

[fossil depot]

Fair. Will have to see any expansion come out; currently makes zero sense.

[stark pier]

im willing to bet on it

[fossil depot]

I'm not...considering the crap of a story we got for the main plot, I'm...expecting disappointment, NGL.

[stark pier]

or maybe they made a crap story to make more money from dlc story 😉

[fossil depot]

I hate you so much right now. 😆

[ornate venture]

sir_whiterabbit has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[vital pollen]

The wiki used to say Sickle became Faust lol

It’s community written, it’s bound to have mistakes

In fact, wiki having mistakes is the reason for many of S2 faults where writers copied the wiki

[proven wolf]

Lazy research, but people who have never be taught how to do proper research... coz it just goes as far as google and mobile phones

[vapid spire]

Who is sickle?

[jagged hull]

one of fausts' followers

early on when we were still figuring out the story there was a theory that sickle could be faust's original nickname before he became a controller but it was deduced that sickle was just transcribing what faust is telling him into a pda message since faust is blind and had a hard time typing on a touchscreen

[cold quarry]

(Sickle was also one of the boys in Strider's group in Call of Prypiat, as was Foma)

[spiral siren]

That reminds me, with who Strider actually hanged with?

Freedom or Duty?

I know that Yaniv passed through no one hands, as it seems Bonesetter and Hawaiian are still positioned there even after 10 years

Wonder if Nitro and Cardan are with Zulu unit?

As Nitro had a strong preference for Duty.

But I get this feeling Zulu will have a major play on main story

[deep forum]

I hope that Cardan left the zone shortly after CoP. He deserves some rest. Curious about Nitro though.

[jagged hull]

wasnt there an option to hire them as guards for the ecologist bunker?

nvm im misremembering

i think its probably neither of those like with a lot of the cop multiple option storylines

[marsh tree]

I guess this puts the use of the term "Coupons" in STALKER into perspective: https://youtu.be/5AI4CXLhydU?si=8lzDg5lp5iHPNsAp

[stark prawn]

IIRC the player had that choice to make where you could get them into either faction.

[fathom veldt]

they have a Duty to clean waste lol what do you think? 😄

[exotic jay]

It honestly doesn't matter too much because Strider was only in Freedom / Duty for a few days, a week at most, before separating and going to Prypiat with the major, then shortly after getting the rest of his crew out of the faction the major put them in

[jagged hull]

is there any evidence to confirm that strider did actually accompany degtyarev through jupiter underground?

[ornate venture]

chris_98_ has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[vapid spire]

Well he is alive.

[jagged hull]

i dont think thats sufficient

[stark prawn]

In CoP you recruit 4 other stalkers to help you get to Pripyat, the 4 are Zulu, Vano, Lieutenant Sokolov, and Strider. And iirc the ending changes depending on who you’ve saved along the way.

[jagged hull]

yes i know you can but thats not the point

HoC clearly shows that some choices are canon over others, do we know if him having strider join his squad is one of them

[jagged hull]

either way its not a huge deal im just interested if someone remembers if anything proved this

[late falcon]

According to CoP endings, Noontide will only be formed if Strider joined Deggy on the trip. If he doesn't, he will be forgotten.

[cold quarry]

when Deggy asked Strider to join him, Strider agreed instantly since he said he wanted to find out what happened to his brothers, which he also mentioned in S2 that he spent a lot of time trying to learn more, so I'd say that also confirms that he did go to Prypiat with Deggy

[spiral siren]

Sokolov is confirmed to have evacuated in a document at the Laundromat, Strider joining means changes the ending to form noontide, Vano fate is unknown but hopefully we can see it soon or on CNPP

[ornate venture]

mrkymura has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[jagged hull]

sounds about right, im not good with keeping up with those endings

[timber forum]

[simple kraken]

ay

wsp

[fathom veldt]

[vapid spire]

Vano seemed like the kind of guy to join freedom. I think he went to army bases after CoP.

[fossil depot]

Isn't that only if Strider dies?

[fossil depot]

@barren cave or @pseudo sail or @vestal wolf. please?

Thanks. Sorry for ping.

[pseudo sail]

oke

[fathom veldt]

o0oh it's time for new adventures in the zone, nice patch

[surreal blade]

I need to know how the Treaty was broken in game, was i skipping steps due to my excessive exploring before quests?

[cold quarry]

if by Treaty you mean D4 I don't believe you can "break" it by exploring before any main story progression; if you mean NPC being hostile then it's another story (could be misfire on a neutral or a bug as reported by a few for undetermined reasons; or you have stumbled upon a quest-locked area where you'll be one-shot)

[fossil depot]

D4 treaty is not broken till you pick a side and even then, it's broken mostly by Spark or Strelok (the latter isn't part of the treaty).

Freedom and Duty never break it, Corps only do it at the very end (when they go against the Ward) and Noontide doesn't get a choice (since SIRCAA).

Basically, everything goes to shit AFTER Dalin's experiment goes to shit because of Faust.

I guess that technically means Noontide broke it, but...eh, it's muddled.

[quasi nebula]

@vestal wolf Bot above ^

[ancient sinew]

New S2 lore dropped.

The Capitalist stalker Bløø is secretly funding ALL projects in and around the zone keep your wallets safe.

[surreal blade]

Damn, i went to Duty cement factory base and all they were talking about was how the treaty was broken and now they were hostile to freedom again. As it was the first time i heard the treaty was broken, i thought something off screen happened

The treaty subject should be analyzed more in depth, maybe as a new side mission after SIRCAA

[fossil depot]

But what part of the story is it?

Because Freedom and Duty are like...permanently hostile to each other (which is why the whole shit in Garbage happened, to start with, except for Nestor and Chornozem).

[surreal blade]

Honestly i don't remember, but i began exploring around surely after sircaa

[surreal blade]

I must have been distracted to not notice, huh

When i visited Bar i heard that Duty was not its protector anymore, but they signed a treaty with freedom. Maybe i should replay it

[fossil depot]

Well, that's what I said in my original message...the treaty is not broken till SIRCAA. After SIRCAA, since the experiment destroyed the Noontide and reformed them back into the Monolith...well, that means Noontide broke the treaty without a choice.

The Corps are currently not in the picture (story-wise) at that point, meaning that leaves Freedom and Duty to go at each other again since the Ward got heavily damaged (because no matter how evil everyone considers the Ward, they kept things in line and running smoothly where even Bandits stayed in their place) and was weakened.

[fossil depot]

Yes, but that's the thing...before SIRCAA, everything is fine and smooth (depending on how much havoc Skif wreaks, but still, lore-wise, it's fine).

Once SIRCAA happens, well...all bets are off.

[surreal blade]

Hmmm, sounds fair

[fossil depot]

Yep...you notice that when you get access to Pripyat. By that time, the Monolith has brought the entire Zone to its knees (and that is after Scar, Strelok and Degtyarev decimated them in the trilogy in their respective games).

Meaning, first of all, you've still got a HUGE Monolith population (meaning that there have been more brain-washings and it's not just 'left-over' members from the trilogy).

Secondly, when you reach Pripyat, you can see that Degtyarev and the Corps are on the verge of being overwhelmed and killed (and only saved because you, the one-man army, shows up and wrecks the Monolith on your own). Meaning up till then, the Corps were basically sitting around and doing nothing, meaning it was peaceful as shit.

Now, Degtyarev is not the kind of guy to die (you understand if you play the trilogy; all protagonists are one-man armies), but thanks to the decade-long rusting, Scar and Strelok have gone to waste and while Degtyarev retains his capability to wage war, he's simply outnumbered.

If someone like that can be brought close to death, the Ward is no exception...only Korshunov has the power to keep pushing on (because he's also a one-man army). Ward is basically a PMC with unlimited money but limited people and they can't secure the Zone when so many of theirs died (both during SIRCAA's attack and after that, depending on what side you're on).

And that's why you have the noobs from Freedom and Duty trying to go to each others' throats again, except they're irrelevant in S2 (because it's gotten bigger than them and they still are playing with toys).

[surreal blade]

I'm surprised that Duty didn't join Ward, their interests align and Ward is widely funded, way more than Duty could ever be. Pride of not being controlled by another army maybe?

[hearty verge]

i believe they did get quite friendly with the ward

not quite join but the ward was more friendly with duty than most

[surreal blade]

yeah, but i pretty much expected a union of armies, surely voronin must be pretty exhausted from fighting all that time

[vapid spire]

Ward is just duty but more well equipped.

[fossil depot]

Duty is military-aligned, Ward is a PMC.

Military folk don't (generally) like PMCs...they think PMCs are sell-outs and have no ethics/morals/whatever.

[vapid spire]

Just like how spark is just freedom but crazier.

[hearty verge]

yeah, i agree
the ward and duty could have definitely have some sort of mutual help agreement, duty provides people/influence/connections and the ward provides gear/people/etc

[vapid spire]

What does pmc mean?

[surreal blade]

private military company

[fossil depot]

That's the thing, Voronin never fought. At all.

In ALL the games, the only fighting they do is with Freedom. And sure, they hunt mutants, but...as the saying is in S2, mutants are not reducing in numbers (meaning they're constantly being created) and Duty has 'seen better days'.

Voronin sat on his butt since SoC in Rostok and ended up losing it by the time of S2 to end up in the back-water of the Chemical Plant.

[fossil depot]

Mercenaries but with a fancy name so they can be more politically correct.

[winter mauve]

Company or Contractor

[surreal blade]

Basically mercenaries, they don't answer to any governement, only to who pays for services

[fossil depot]

Same thing; PMCs are for-profit companies. Companies do contract work. No difference.

Though contractors can mean anything, from having a contract to provide food for your local reserve military to killing civilians for oil pipelines, so it's not cut-and-dry.

[vapid spire]

So were the corps part of the d4 treaty?

[fossil depot]

Yes.

[hearty verge]

every major faction

[surreal blade]

So even in the same interests, Duty didn't trust Ward enough, due to their difference

[fossil depot]

Duty and Freedom being 'major' = nice joke.

Bandits are more major than both of them combined.

[vapid spire]

I thought it was only between duty' freedom, noontide, and the ward.

[surreal blade]

They used to be major in SOC, but that's pretty much it

[hearty verge]

bandits aren't a unified force under a leadership like duty and freedom are more similar too
bandits are a blanket term for a type of people
and freedom isn't small...

[fossil depot]

Even in the trilogy (when the actual Ukrainian Military was patrolling the Zone), Duty and Military maintained a significant distance. They'd co-operate, but otherwise remained neutral/hostile.

IPSF is just private, UN-type peace-keeper military and Ward is basically Blackwater (but with better morals due to Korshunov).

[fossil depot]

I mean, considering S2, both Freedom and Duty are irrelevant as hell, NGL.

[surreal blade]

Freedom in S2 is just bar shops with armed units around the zone right? At least i remember them saying that

[vapid spire]

Ward and spark out did them.

[fossil depot]

Yep. They (and Duty) even lost Yaniv station to Degtyarev (which is a major strategic point).

That tells you just how much both sides fell, except Freedom has more money (and hence trade).

[hearty verge]

to skif and the storyline, yes
doesn't mean they aren't insignificant in the rest of the zone
freedom made the current zone's currency, so i'm sure they have some sort of non-insignificant presence in the zone

[hearty verge]

welllllll
sounds more likely that duty and freedom (freedom especially) gave yaniv to degtyarev, seems like freedom would agree with what degtyarev's goals are

[fossil depot]

Sure, but, I mean...all they do is sit around on their butt, smoke crack and sell guns and armour.

Same thing as what Duty does (besides crack and trade).

Honestly, their Zone-wide relevance feels lacking, NGL. For a group that's gt their HQ in Rostok, they should've become all-powerful.

[surreal blade]

Honestly what i expected from Sircaa was many teams and factions disbanding except Ward, Spark, mercenaries and military. From what i've seen, it's literally a miracle they could be even named Duty and Freedom

[fossil depot]

CoP's ending is that both sides lost members, and seeing how things are in S2, it's more like that they lost everything and had to evacuate...or got thrown out by Korshunov (since the Ward divided the Zone into parts for each faction).

[hearty verge]

why bother do anything else? do they have to? they don't have duty to fight, they can just sit on their ass and get even more loaded
duty doesn't have much power or resources to do much of anything disappointingly
and yes, i think freedom is more powerful and has more sway in the current zone than s2 portrays

[surreal blade]

Making the exception of a few members, many of Duty and Freedom got used to do nothing, with Ward taking command. When Noontide turned all his dozens or hundreds of soldiers all around the zone, they would have left their factions

[hearty verge]

I see, so big war and korsh cut the cake up for the lot of them
doesn't mean though that they haven't grown in power
freedom's prospect seems preeeeetty good in the current zone

[fossil depot]

But that's the thing...basically no one cares about the factions in S2. It started out in CS (because everyone was vying for resources and control). SoC is pure chaos, and CoP is the dust settling.

Problem is neither faction had the power (man-power or otherwise) that the government does, so that means end of the day, the Ward/SIRCAA can simply absorb their blows and win a war of attrition.

It's why the treaty exists; Korshunov knows that an all-out war is bad for everyone (since it's just people dying without any sense and he's not the kind of guy to just waste lives without reason, and Zotov is an exemplar of that).

So while the Ward moved in heavy-handed, all they wanted was for everyone to sit down and shut up. Meaning everyone's irrelevant at that point and lives in their own hierarchy.

[hearty verge]

why would they disband? sircaa enforced a non-aggression treaty, not telling them to disband

[surreal blade]

I mean after SIRCAA

[hearty verge]

the old factions are no longer the subject in s2, it's the ward and spark now instead of duty and freedom
duty and freedom still exist, they're just not as centrepiece aanymore

[hearty verge]

still, why would duty and freedom disband?
we know what happened to noontide
and spark is as happy as ever
sircaa/ward is fine, just with heavy losses which can easily be replenished

[fossil depot]

True, but in the older games, you could see both factions trying to make moves. Meaning that regardless of story, you could see them vying for power and control (especially strategically).

In S2, both sides are like..."OK, we good, everyone else do their thing". NGL, that's every faction (except the Bandits and Mercenaries), so I guess it's not exclusive to them.

[fossil depot]

SIRCAA, yes. Ward, no.

[hearty verge]

yup, hence the non-aggression treaty
everyone knows the ward can bih slap them to the floor if they wanted to
so they didn't try anything
apart from spark coz they're spark

[fossil depot]

Prospects, true; but the Ward still keeps everyone on a tight leash.

[hearty verge]

the ward will be fine in the long run

[surreal blade]

The zone turned to chaos again, seeing how both factions were doing, i'm more surprised they remained instead of everyone by himself, which was the outcome i thought would happen. The danger of monolith to unprepared factions would be lethal, not even Ward and the corps were doing fine

[fossil depot]

TBF, that's mostly Scar, since Spark is just Clear Sky with a new uniform (researchers and not combatants).

[fossil depot]

Not really...

The Ward's members are hand-picked by Korshunov and are basically elite units. You simply can't just replace men en masse (since you need both skill and loyalty).

Unlike Spark, Ward members ARE loyal to Korshunov through to the end, and that's not something you can replenish easily, even in the long run.

Still, I agree with you, since the Ward has unlimited money, just like SIRCAA and IPSF.

[hearty verge]

I suppose, it is true
idk why we didn't see freedom and duty fighting/struggling with the monolith as much, we should have
but freedom and duty have no reason to stick their hands in the air and disband or whatever, not gonna stop the monolith
there's no surrendering from the monolith

[hearty verge]

with time, i meant

[fossil depot]

Yep, hence I agree for the most part.

[hearty verge]

true, scar will lead spark to whatever he wants
good thing though, scar knows what he's doing

[hearty verge]

we should have seen more "fighting from the monolith at X base (rostok and cement factory)" like we saw at the sphere, zalyssia and etc

[surreal blade]

Logically speaking they would be wiped out, if Monolith was that powerful to cover the entire zone, then the Bar would have been raided to the ground or evacuated, maybe the cement factory would hold, but barely maybe

[fossil depot]

That's the problem...the Zone had become chaos by the end of CoP and the way SIRCAA and Ward moved in, the chaos was much worse.

'Every man for himself' wouldn't work, since you'd just die (ask Father Valerian in the Cooling Towers). In fact, this is exactly why the factions remained intact, because the only way to survive was together. Even the Loners are banded under the Gaffer's name.

Those who try to be independent do so at their own risk and those who go out of line...get terminated with extreme prejudice (whether by the Ward or the other factions or the Zone itself).

It's why Skif can be independent; the man has enough capability to destroy everything he sees if someone crosses him. And veterans like Skif end up badly as well if they choose wrong (which is basically all the endings for him).

[hearty verge]

nah, logically speaking, duty is cooked most likely
too little manpower
freedom would be able to hold for at least a while longer due to their raw resources and manpower
but yes you are right, we should have seen SOMETHING happen to them. not just them ignored entirely

i would love to take part in a HUGE battle with freedom against the monolith outside rostok

[surreal blade]

I suppose that makes sense, but focusing on freedom and duty, their leaders hold so little power, that the loose ends would practically destroy them from the inside, or outside if monolith catches them

[hearty verge]

bro the freedom would be so intense auhh

[surreal blade]

Freedom used to be cracked sharpshooters back in SOC, those were a menace

[fossil depot]

Monolith was wiped out by the end of CoP, but going by S2, I'm guessing that more brain-washing happened and more people were turned into the Monolith.

Meaning that somehow, SIRCAA (or the Group, or MDST or whatever) managed to brainwash people using the Monolith emitter, ensured they'd be mind-wiped and released them.

This is a theory, but it's the only one that makes sense, because considering CoP, the Monolith should've become no more than 20 members. And the number of them you fight in S2 means there's a lot more than 20.

This also doesn't factor in Granite Squad (which would also be the Monolith project taken to the extreme).

Again, this is my theory; it might not make sense, but again...the number of Monolith can only be explained by one logic.

[hearty verge]

you're right with duty, quite a lot of duty doesn't like voronin
but not with freedom
I wonder though, how many former monolithians are within freedom and get awoken with the signal

[fossil depot]

Freedom also has different leaders all the time. It was Chekhov in CS, Lukash in SoC, Loki in CoP and Myklukha in S2...so the 'like' part might be a bit skewed, considering Voronin has been the longest-serving Duty leader.

[surreal blade]

Freedom alone could stop the monolith at the Radar checkpoint, now that was impressive

[hearty verge]

faust probably somehow managed to recruit more numbers, or maybe something happened with the signal
either way, i got no clue

[fossil depot]

Yep, and that was with Duty constantly attacking them. Of course, that went to shit after Strelok disabled X-10, so...eh..

[fossil depot]

Yea, but the fact that they all resurge as Monolith rather than simply Faust's followers means that they had to have been brain-washed as the Monolith before.

Else they'd just be Zombies or Spark-like (following a cult leader). But since they're specifically Monolith...well...none of them retain their memories, they're all fanatically brain-washed and are just SoC again.

[surreal blade]

Talking about Granite, i'm sure they are important, but i don't remember anything about them, could they be the ones protecting the sarcophagus?

[hearty verge]

with duty though, we know for certain that quite a chunk of duty doesn't like how voronin is running duty
with freedom, i don't see any reason why myklukha wouldn't be a leader who's believed in
seems like he's done preeeetty well for freedom in s2...
though, just coz he can make freedom rich doesn't mean he can lead all that well

[hearty verge]

true, I genuinely don't know how that could have happened
hopefully it's explained at some point

[fossil depot]

Yea, Granite protects the center of the Zone, but the way they do, they can rival Skif (and can easily make short work of him, which says a lot about them considering Skif has to slaughter hundreds of people through the game).

Of course, lore-wise, the count of corpses would be 200 at best, but...I mean, you get the point.

[fossil depot]

My bet's on SIRCAA (or rather, MDST) putting their fingers in the wrong pie since they want to control everything and since the Monolith is the perfect definition of 'control'...

[hearty verge]

mdst yessss
that sounds about right

they did hook faust up to the monolith network, I see no reason that could devolve into a bad idea!

[surreal blade]

Could they be the military squad protecting the initial 8 scientists in the beginning?

[hearty verge]

something like that, they're the first monolith soldiers

[fossil depot]

You know what'd be funny?

MDST playing Dalin, Hermann and Ozersky into recreating the Monolith (with all 3 of them unaware of it). Like...everyone calls Dalin stupid, but honestly...the man simply is so out of the loop (and Korshunov is so IN the loop), it's not even funny.

I'm betting 90% of Dalin's 'mistakes' are because the MDST phucked up or didn't tell him everything.

[hearty verge]

LOL true
maybe future dlc stuff???????
gsc write this down

[fossil depot]

Yes. Granite is basically super-soldiers armed with top-of-the-line stuff.

It's the Secret Service of the Group.

[hearty verge]

well, it's kinda like the royal guards
top notch, the most devoted with the most tricked out gear

they're the 2 dudes at either side of the throne in the golden armour with spears

[fossil depot]

It's why I feel bad for Dalin...most of the shit is actually NOT his fault.

Like, you can see how Hermann tells Skif about the Second Caribbean Experiment, but Dalin only RAN the experiment...because he's an employee of SIRCAA.

It's not like Dalin specifically chose to do everything himself, he was just following the MDST's orders. Hermann manipulated Skif into attacking Dalin instead of Agatha.

[surreal blade]

And i wonder how Skif dealt with them, if the colonel was one of the soldiers of The Group, i cant imagine how dangerous that squad alone was

[fossil depot]

And loyalty that makes Korshunov look like a rebel.

[fossil depot]

That's the whole point of the games...the protagonist is God-tier skill, and that's the only way to survive. Plus...a hefty amount of Gauss Rifle rounds.

[hearty verge]

true, and we begin to see at the end how dalin's attitude shifts a bit into more curious/involved in subtle matter and c-con

[fossil depot]

You know, this talk is interesting, but I GTG; we'll definitely continue this later. Really interesting plot.

[hearty verge]

genuinely, the granite squad is so sick
shame that part of the game is painful to play

[hearty verge]

l8rsss

[surreal blade]

I think we are not yet done with Granite

[fossil depot]

Morri, tell him about how Skif deals with Granite. I'll be back in a while or so.

[jagged hull]

i think youre looking at this completely wrong in the actual lore of the games the main characters dont murder hundreds of people thats just for gameplay

[hearty verge]

LOL
uuuhh
shoots them all? coz he's main character
right..?

[surreal blade]

I mean yes of course, but lore speaking, instead of gameplay speaking

[hearty verge]

or just runs past them all

[vapid spire]

We need mdst story dlc

[jagged hull]

trying to speculate about the story without this in mind is wrong tho

[vapid spire]

Like mdst were the ones giving scar orders and the ones behind the shining zone plan.

[hearty verge]

i got no clue lore wise, skif should be child's play for them
i mean at the very least he's outnumbered like 50 to 1 and they've all got exos and heavy calibre guns and gauss rifles, skif wouldn't stand any chance

[jagged hull]

its more like 15-20 in the story not 50

at least for the granite squad

after all its squad not brigade or whatever

[hearty verge]

they also have skif ingame in an EXTREMELY difficult set of rooms, like skif's in a room with a walkway above him all around the outer rim with all of the squad up there
he should be erased in seconds, shot from all sides

[hearty verge]

ykwim, he still would have no chance

[surreal blade]

Yeah that's why i'm saying i think we're not done with granite

if colonel korshunov was with the group and with granite, i wonder how he survived the brainwashing, why the rest of the soldiers turned to granite, there's a plothole waiting to be uncovered

[jagged hull]

the dlcs will probably just have the player playing as skif and you get a large side story to play

i would love getting something else but thats what all the signs are pointing to

[hearty verge]

maybe he escaped last second or got injured and taken away before everything happened, i don't know

[vapid spire]

Imagine they add the sin faction into dlc.

[jagged hull]

spark is the replacement for sin

[shrewd igloo]

They already have Dark Stalkers in CS for use it as resources on a dlc.

[surreal blade]

Well all we know is that he was there during the experiment. It would be interesting to find out more

[hearty verge]

i agree, i can only speculate

[vapid spire]

I kinda want lost alpha's dark stalkers where they're just partial mutants.

[surreal blade]

That's why i think there must be more to it, maybe even Sin are connected if i can make this stretch of a theory

[vapid spire]

They could put sin in limansk.

[shrewd igloo]

Dark Stalkers would be more interesting.

[surreal blade]

their usage of artifacts? their ability to subjugate mutants? Their military expertise?

Maybe, just a big maybe Granite and Sin might be related, putting this also with Anomaly (obviously not canon), but i really want Sin to be a reality

[vapid spire]

Weren't they gonna add a faction called flame that works with mutants? That could be a nice replacement for sin.

[surreal blade]

I can only hope so and i also hope we see more of granite, their link with the colonel is interesting

[vapid spire]

Would the ward be an official version of the other cut faction unsig?

[surreal blade]

yeah i think, they're both UN squads, only UNISG is extremely secretive

unisg was also my fav faction in anomaly, basically "No witnesses"

[fossil depot]

Damn, how much did y'all move the chat?

[surreal blade]

got a long read ahead bud

[fossil depot]

Yea, I'm aware of that, which is why I'm putting the TOTAL number of deaths at Skif's hand (from when Hermann drops you off in the Zone to the ending cut-scene) at 200.

Meaning that includes pests like Bandits, RNG enemies like Mercenaries, Monolith/Ward/Spark/Strelok, Granite Squad, side missions...ALL of them, culminating at 200 deaths.

Which is still a shit-ton of Monolith. And that number is probably lower considering all the variables; I'll put the number of deaths at 300-350.

[fossil depot]

Yep, going through piece-by-piece; I left at an interesting juncture.

[fossil depot]

We need all sorts of DLC, not just MDST (bonus points if they're based in Radiowave and caused Lymansk to go insane).

Even more bonus points if the MDST itself got corrupted and Agatha tries to salvage the mess.

And more and more bonus points if the Group manages to cause a bigger mess (since they're in the Noosphere and could cause significant psionic damage) in relation to the MDST.

[fossil depot]

That's after having been worn down over the years, though point taken (and still doesn't explain the Monolith numbers, because even lore-wise, they've got the man-power and resources to bring everyone, including the Ward, to a grinding halt).

[fossil depot]

And that's the best part; Skif is out-numbered 20-50:1 and still manages to take every last one of them out (because lore-wise, it wouldn't be possible to successfully reach a conclusion with active hostiles around)...serious levels of skill and capability to do that, NGL.

And that's against (as before) Monolith armed with Gauss Rifles. No joke, NGL...

[fossil depot]

Yea, but considering the ending of S2 is a definitive end (Skif leaves with a home/gets brain-washed into a zombie/gets locked in the Zone/gets locked in the pod)...I'm wondering how the DLCs will work.

'Cause as much as I'd love for the game to have an open ending like CoP, I'm feeling it won't be likely (so Skif gets phucked either ways).

Also, that'd require choosing one of the endings as canon, which is worse (since I doubt they'll pull off a Deus Ex).

[fossil depot]

Plot twist...Korshunov is already brain-washed (meaning he's an agent).

[vapid spire]

Them being in limansk or another cut area would make sense as to why we haven't seen them yet.

[surreal blade]

Maybe it will be Richter's turn to save the zone

[fossil depot]

And even more since it's the predecessor to the 'Scorcher' and basically the same as Yantar with a different goal.

Be funny if Radiowave managed to be connected to the Duga as well (controls or programming or something).

[surreal blade]

He's also a know it all regarding routes, so we could be exploring as far as Limansk

[fossil depot]

NGL, I find Richter to be creepy.

[surreal blade]

Well, at the last section of the game i was really starting to like him

[fossil depot]

No, I get that part, but the way he's always around Skif (lore-wise)...like...that's next level stalking.

Even better when he's suddenly just there once you escape SIRCAA...like, HOW does he know exactly where and when to look for you? It;s ridiculous.

[surreal blade]

He could be hiding something, that's for sure, he's always there tho when we need him

The colonel, Richter, the group and granite, moreover Limansk and the Sarcophagus, there's a lot to uncover

[fossil depot]

You know...considering Spark's ending...maybe the Group is manipulating Richter into doing it?

Except, since Scar's unhinged and manipulated by the MDST, both plans clash and the 'Shining' turns into the horror movie.

[surreal blade]

Could very well be, maybe that's the reason he stopped being a guide

Since Richter saw skif with the scanner and the alpha he might have followed him through the zone, observing him

[fossil depot]

Yep...maybe that was part of the plan too, since if he can take people anywhere, anyone could get the secrets of the Zone.

So maybe they manipulated him to 'make a mistake', make him think he lost the Zone's favour, so that he'd wait till the right time (Skif). And then Skif gets screwed along with everyone else because everyone's vying for their own selfish ends.

Or maybe the Stephen King part wasn't planned and just everyone trying to 'do right' caused the end-game mess, NGL.

[fossil depot]

I'm interested a LOT more in Korshunov...the man has his own...'aura' around everyone, but when Agatha shows up, he becomes COMPLETELY silent and obedient (which is way beyond being a fanatic or being black-mailed or something). And he seems to do it willingly (since he's not the kind of guy to bow to anyone).

That has me scratching my head ever since I saw Agatha (and his reaction).

[surreal blade]

Could be, but curiosity has been killing the cat since the beginning, him being a manipulated guide could have caused people to join the group brainwashing, i personally think "the mistake" was made up, he just stopped feeding the group and disappeared, waiting for something to happen. When he saw Skif he was still cynical, only at Yaniv he realizes there's something to it

[surreal blade]

Korshunov has been there since the beginning, he knows something we don't or maybe neither he does. There's nothing stopping me from thinking many Ward soldiers might have turned to monolithians because of the test he allowed Dalin to carry out

I went to see Icarus base after a while, idk if it's because of other choices or not, but every Warden was turned to a zombie

[fossil depot]

I think that's if you don't disable the Emitter under the base? Not sure, NGL; I still haven't finished the Ward play-through (or any, for that matter; being a looter is pain).

[surreal blade]

Damn, i didn't know there was one below Icarus

That might even further prove my monolith theory

[fossil depot]

Uh...you didn't do the mission? The Icarus scientist sends you on a mission; first to gather data from sensors, then to get it from the Emitter itself (you get the choice whether to keep it on or shut it down).

Basically the same Emitters that were used by Clear Sky to block the Swamps off.

[surreal blade]

Hmmm, no maybe i did something to skip it?

I remeber never going to Icarus

the only time i went there, every warden was zombified

[fossil depot]

Huh; then I have no idea (since, as I said, my game's completely unfinished).

I did go to Icarus when (I think) I was sent there as a mission; disabled the Emitter and also tried to help another guy there as part of a side-mission.

[surreal blade]

So, what you're saying is if Skif doesn't intervene Icarus is doomed? Damn

Does the emitter mission happen before SIRCAA?

If that emitter is the same type of the CS base ones, there might be something way worse under the carpet

[fossil depot]

I mean...you can intervene, but I'm not sure if that avoids the zombification of Icarus or not (my Ward play-through is just past the Zalissya defence, so I have no idea what happens after).

I'm pretty sure going to Icarus is a main story mission, though.

[fossil depot]

Yep; it happens before the CS Base (which, technically, is how Skif would know how to disable them in the Swamps).

Sorry for slow responses; dinner time here so will be slow.

[surreal blade]

There's a way to skip it, of course without cheats, i think because of the choices you make early game

[fossil depot]

This might be more of a gameplay choice (avoid creating extra models and such), but it fits in lore-wise (since CS is just ex-Group scientists and Emitters are just...regular transceivers with different programming and energy levels being pumped through them). Also explains how the Duga, being an OTH radar, can be turned into a psionic Emitter a-la the 'Scorcher'.

[fossil depot]

I'll have to take a closer look in a future play-through, since I'm myself confused (it's been a while since I ran that play-through).

[surreal blade]

yes, exactly where i'm going, what i mean is somebody must have put it there

if that's before sircaa, it means not monolithians

[fossil depot]

Yea, SIRCAA put it there (the scientist in the Icarus base says as much and the commander is extremely angry about that, since he knows that SIRCAA only cares for experimentation instead of actually helping their men).

And this gets even better, because when you're in SIRCAA (after your episode of craziness), Dalin SPECIFICALLY says that they're shutting down the Monolith Emitter for good because they 'don't want SIRCAA fanatics' (like the Monolith). Which is proven immediately wrong when the experiment happens later and the Monolith resurge.

Meaning Dalin doesn't even know what SIRCAA is doing behind his back. And this is while Korshunov is completely silent on the topic and when Agatha calls Skif to her, he simply obliges with no explanation.

[shrewd igloo]

No.
UN (not UNISG or ISG) almost doesn't had nothing of lore or story, it's just a generic idea with generic execution, nothing great for inspire ward on it, wasn't supposed to appear on "canon sequences" tho, Ward is not based on another empty-idea.

Just SIRCAA it's based on a cut-idea, NIICHAZ of Stalker 2, and that until certain point.

[vapid spire]

I think Richter was just anti ward considering he has second thoughts on scar later on.

[vapid spire]

Makes sense. They seem redundant when we already have ecologists.

[fossil depot]

Yep.

[fossil depot]

No, that's understandable; I'm (along with Sculone) proposing that Richter was being manipulated the whole time; Spark and anti-Ward thing being side-effects (or just circumstances).

Because Richter seems to not actually be thinking for himself and just following some random goal that's not too random once you go through the stories.

[surreal blade]

This means that both Dalin and Richter might have been manipulated into following orders, but as Dalin wanted to see if his father succeded, maybe Richter had a personal goal which aligned to SIRCAA

[fossil depot]

Exactly. And that's the billion-USD question...were they being manipulated? If so, by who, how and why?

Dalin is obviously being led astray, but there, you can see Korshunov hiding shit and Agatha doing shit. With Richter, it's a LOT more muddled.

[vapid spire]

It could be since he feels guilt for being a bad guide that he isnt thinking straight cause he also seems to have no issue following strelok either. Skif basically helped Ritcher feel redemption in the doc ending.

[fossil depot]

Oh, no, I get that. My point is that while the guilt is real...the reasons he made the choice (to follow or abandon whoever he did) could be entirely manipulation to achieve desired outcomes.

[vapid spire]

Maybe he thought the shining zone would bring back the stalkers he failed to guide.

[fossil depot]

That too.

Just never expected Stephen King's Shining...

[surreal blade]

Plus Hermann was also into this, then suddenly disappears

[fossil depot]

Nah, Hermann's working for SIRCAA; he doesn't disappear.

[surreal blade]

Yes, but after Agatha, he's never heard from again

[vapid spire]

He comes back if you stick with the ward.

[fossil depot]

He is (in the Ward path). Trust me, SIRCAA's never letting him go.

Hermann basically screwed himself by not staying with Ozersky post-CoP.

[surreal blade]

That brings to my milion dollar question: what happens to him when you don't follow the Ward path?

Because in my case, i never saw him again anywhere

Loose end maybe?

[vapid spire]

One issue I got with stalker 2 is that agatha dissapears on the other story paths

[surreal blade]

I'm sure she will still be relevant, she's got too much power and too much relevance to stay sit during the story

[vapid spire]

Yes. Played on the spark path then moved to strelok.

[fossil depot]

That's the thing...YOU don't (since it's an entirely different story path). SIRCAA is still using him; you can safely assume he's firmly under their thumb (except, unlike Dalin, who doesn't even know what's happening, Hermann's willingly/unwillingly following them).

[vapid spire]

And I wondered wtf happened to Hermann.

[surreal blade]

The only conclusion might be that he's either forced to work for them or he's been dealt with. That sounds shady anyway you look at it

[vapid spire]

You basically gotta play this game mutiple times or look up other playthroughs to get the full story.

[surreal blade]

Hermann willingly held vital information to Skif in the prologue, this just makes it look shadier

[fossil depot]

That's the thing, though...Agatha tells you to deal with him, but he shows up later.

Meaning he's being used to scam you...and anyone else involved with the Scanner business.

Hermann's problem is that he thinks he's too smart and he knows JUST enough to be a useful pest for SIRCAA.

[fossil depot]

But that's the thing...you never know if it was Hermann doing it out of his own free will or if Agatha had told/pressured him to doing this.

[vapid spire]

Like if you dont kill scar you never find out he was taking orders from mdst.

[fossil depot]

TBF, it's basically obvious no matter the path you take, since Scar is unhinged enough to lay it all out (and the things Skif sees through the game)...2 + 2 = 4.

[surreal blade]

So that means Skif's arrival to the zone wasn't entirely because of the alpha artifact, he was a target even before getting inside

[vapid spire]

Also if you follow strelok you dont get to explore the top of the generators region

[fossil depot]

Now you're getting it. Only question is WHO exactly targeted him...was it the Group? Was it MDST? Was it SIRCAA? Was it Agatha? Was it random?

And that's where you head-canon what you want till GSC drops more story.

[surreal blade]

Agatha and MDST are looking extremely shady

just as much as UNISG in anomaly

[fossil depot]

I'm still confused how they got teleportation...like...how?

And it's not even like Doom...there's no prior research happening and the portals work flawlessly, with zero glitches.

[surreal blade]

i like where this is going, this is the kind of mystery i want in stalker

Where in the triology the mystery was The Group, now its MSDT, which we never fully see, only mentions. They're bound to make future entrances

[vapid spire]

Strelok basically became a zone hacker.

[fossil depot]

This is even better, because you don't know if Agatha is merely the representative of the MDST...or if Agatha is being used by them as a scape-goat (so everyone blames her instead of the people behind her)...or if Agatha IS MDST with everyone subservient to her.

Skif also mentions that Agatha may not be a 'who' but a 'what' (which, as a tangent, ties into the original concept idea that the Monolith was an alien artifact that collapsed to the ground, got damaged and caused the Zone).

[fossil depot]

But it's not just Strelok; Ward and Spark use teleporters too...like, it's basically a well-used, well-tested technology.

[vapid spire]

We kinda did see them with clear sky.

[surreal blade]

And if the Oasis was only an illusion, nothing stops me from thinking that Limansk might be in the same situation

Someone covering Limansk from everyone

[vapid spire]

I guess they're some how spawning a teleport anomaly like the ones we see in SoC.

[surreal blade]

A city of scientist, might also be MDST hq for all we know

[vapid spire]

I think the one in CoP was real.

[surreal blade]

Yes, but the Strelok mission made me really wonder if it was real

[fossil depot]

Right, but that's my curiosity; the most we had was Space Anomalies, so unless they've mastered the art of creating Space Anomalies on the fly (which is unlikely since the teleporters are physical)...well, I'm just wondering how they got it done in a decade.

[fossil depot]

Also, check this for the MDST theory (based on S2 plot).

[surreal blade]

You might say, he took an artifact, but in S2 we "see" the same place from above the place, it looks as dead as any place in the zone

[normal drum]

You know MDST is NOT the Regulatory Board, right?

[fossil depot]

I'm slightly confused; I thought they were the same? I must've mixed shit up (been too much lore here to keep track at times).

[normal drum]

MDST are just the scientists who had been working for C-Consciousness since 2006, they died out in the Zone before 2021. The Regulatory Board is the group of probably oligarchs who were funding the Project X and then SIRCAA.

[surreal blade]

tends to happen, we might need a board with photos and red lines

[surreal blade]

But RB and MDST are connected right?

[normal drum]

MDST were former Project X scientists, and Project X was funded by the Regulatory Board, that's all.

[surreal blade]

They really all died?

[normal drum]

Most probably, if we trust Dvupalov (I do)

[fathom veldt]

lol, your trust lies in alcoholic 😄

[normal drum]

There is no evidence that at least someone survived.

[fathom veldt]

previous term was the group how they were referenced

[fossil depot]

Right, right...so MDST is the Group's and Regulatory Board is SIRCAA...guess I screwed that up, but...well, the logic still applies. No one knows what and who Agatha is, so...

[surreal blade]

This makes me think, so this means RB funded SIRCAA and employed the Ward as mercenaries, so RB didn't employ the "mercenaries" faction, who the hell, apart from Strelok, is the client?

i might be taking huge steps, but wouldn't it be more reasonable to fund veterans of the zone as contractors? Instead of new agencies?

[fathom veldt]

Regulatory Board is like a overseers of a project established by government so Agatha is like a project manager 🙂

[surreal blade]

Plus that faction has no relation to any nation, it's perfect to loose your trace

[fossil depot]

The Ward aren't just Mercenaries...they're Korshunov-led, loyal Mercenaries who work for him rather than just the highest-paying guy/girl.

[surreal blade]

So you mean that Korshunov is the link between RB and Ward, bc of his relation to the Group, makes sense

[fossil depot]

I mean, obviously; he's the ultimate authority in military terms when it comes to the Ward (and the Zone). They don't call him Colonel for nothing; only man who could match him would be the guy from CoP (forgot his name), and that's only in military authority terms; Korshunov is far beyond a regular military guy.

Now, why Korshunov silently obeys Agatha and the Board is another question, but considering he's a life-long military man (with extreme capability) and can pick the right people for the job...

[surreal blade]

Degtyarev? i always mess up russian names

[fathom veldt]

you know it's Ukrainian game right?

[surreal blade]

yes, sorry for that, this is personal ignorance

[fossil depot]

No, Degtyarev is a Major; the guy in CoP, Colonel Kovalsky.

[surreal blade]

Ohh yeah, i thought current colonel.

But are the Corps aware of this job?

Also mercenaries are silently standing back from the fight, i wonder if the "Clients" are aware of what is happening

[fossil depot]

What job?

[fossil depot]

They're not; the Mercenaries are there to do a job. And that's what they do; they do their shit and everything else is irrelevant.

[surreal blade]

The MDST and RB job, this sounds like a serious government problem

[surreal blade]

Seeing the western origins of the team and their interest in the X labs, i'm sure the interest of the clients are to investigate the Group, so seeing SIRCAA being built and monolith returning, i think they noticed

[fossil depot]

Doubtful; Degtyarev is basically a USS observer and he's focused entirely on ending the STALKER program; I don't think the Ukrainian Military knows anything that he doesn't already.

And since everything would be on a need-to-know basis and even Dalin's in the dark 90% of the time, safe to say Degtyarev doesn't know much, if at all, about MDST and RB.

And short of him meeting Nimble and Novikov in CoP and getting a CS armour, I doubt he knows about Clear Sky as well.

[vapid spire]

Or how strelok is able to activate it with a pda.

Like is he able to do it cause of the heart of chernobyl.

[fossil depot]

Out of thin air too; not even some equipment (though maybe the portal is launched FROM the teleporter to the destination, which would just be the PDA).

Which'd make a lot of sense, since a gate leads somewhere and if you can pin-point where...well...

[surreal blade]

For being Secret service, he for sure hasn't been properly informed on the situation. That's even more shady

[fossil depot]

I mean, that's just gameplay purposes; Mercenaries are just that...Mercenaries. Apart from having NATO weaponry, there's nothing that says they can't be from other nations.

Though, considering they get outfitted in pre-dominantly NATO gear, one can safely assume the people who hire them are American, whether clients or the PMCs themselves (like Blackwater).

Also, I agree about the latter part, but my point is that their interest is limited to what their clients demand. They don't care about the larger plot (unless it involves money). They're basically the less slimey version of Sidorovich if he was a combatant.

[fossil depot]

I mean, that's the whole point...militaries and governments run on hierarchies and even private corporations (like SIRCAA) control information tightly.

Like, can you imagine the disaster that'd happen if everything that SIRCAA/RB/MDST know got leaked to a normal government?

This is all basically top secret stuff; Degtyarev is only doing what he does because he has got a large amount of autonomy. He's still bound by the government (and, as you can see, the Corps involve a TON of IPSF, which is an organization funded by the UN and world governments).

[surreal blade]

Yeah, by mercenaries interest, i mean the "client" interest, maybe they're silently observing to not cause an international scandal?

[surreal blade]

So you mean UN sends IPSF to basically cover up the X Project and MDST? That seems like a huge deal

[fossil depot]

Definitely (though since they're PMCs, it doesn't matter; they can just be disavowed).

[fossil depot]

No, the UN and other national governments fund the IPSF (which is a perimeter force). But...they use the IPSF to gather as much information as they can (since, obviously, everyone wants to race ahead of the others). Same as that crashed UAV in CoP...it's basically an American drone without that part being said out loud, so you can assume that NATO sent the drone to get everything they could for getting an edge.

The Zone has only a few legal inhabitants: IPSF (obviously), Ward, SIRCAA, Malachite and the Corps.

And ALL of them have some or the other level of government funding (and approval; you're not getting into the Zone en masse without that). Only difference is that the IPSF has a strict hierarchy, whereas SIRCAA and Ward are basically black projects and their personal guards.

Degtyarev is an independent (but military) observer, so while he gets autonomy, he still has to report up to the chain of command. It's why they haven't shut down the STALKER program till Skif comes along, because Degtyarev is keeping things close to himself (since he knows any leaks to the IPSF will be disastrous).

It's also why many of his men tell him to quit (since they've been watching over Pripyat for a decade and are exhausted). And it's why he doesn't quit; his men don't even know why the phuck they're there (and it's why they get overwhelmed by the Monolith, since they're completely unprepared and out-numbered).

And it's ALSO why only Korshunov, Degtyarev and Skif are out doing stuff...the rest of them (Myklukha, Voronin, Ozersky, Hermann, Richter, all others) are basically sitting on their butts and warming chairs. The 3 of them are the only ones who're active at dealing with Zone issues. And Scar and Strelok are also active, but they've got their own goals and both are off their medication.

Man, I rant too much... 😔

[surreal blade]

Man, this for sure sounds like a very delicate balance to keep, legally speaking. Any leak could prove a disaster

Especially with mercenaries there to follow the orders of a client that nobody knows

So if there's this delicate balance, why would SIRCAA and MDST include Skif in this loop? It was indeed a risky move

[fossil depot]

Precisely. In CoP, you've got Black...who's leading a group to get data from X-8 in Pripyat. And he leads a relatively large contingent of Mercenaries, along with being affiliated with a scientist.

Can safely assume (never clarified, though) that he's working for a large, well-funded and powerful PMC at the behest of the government (and not just a random rich client).

[fossil depot]

Because Skif is a hollow character with no motivations, which is a GSC skill issue. Skif gets part of his characterization through the game (his descriptions of missions in the PDA), but...like...he has no character when you start the game. There's nothing at all beyond 'angry man wants home'.

[fossil depot]

Less about legal balance and more about how the information that's leaked could be misused.

Like...if people outside the Zone knew how to create anomalies...what's stopping governments from using it to weaponize that against others?

Or the STALKER/Monolith program...like...the first one is just terrorist cells but with brain-washing and the latter is the perfect army (again, with brain-washing).

Imagine the US Military being basically the Monolith; you've got an extinction-level event right there. Not to mention the social implications (since you can program people to believe something).

[surreal blade]

And yet, SIRCAA and RB are researching, which led to its destruction

And yet another disaster to cover up, i wonder the what the next step would be

[fossil depot]

Right, but that's small scale...easy to control. The Zone is a tiny area, after all, and all the experiments are happening only inside (since, disregarding S2, no one knows how to twist the Noosphere and space-time like it is in the CEZ).

And SIRCAA and RB might've had unlimited budget, but they're still limited in what they can do. Limited people, limited opportunities, limited test subject.

Now, if a national government was doing it...or worse, multiple nations doing it...that changes the paradigm entirely.

[fossil depot]

Next step is Korshunov killing Skif because he over-wrote the former's save-game. 😏

[surreal blade]

Only thing i don't understand is why Ward and SIRCAA are letting the mercenaries stay, for sure they're aware of their presence

especially knowing they are of western origin and are illegally staying in the zone, that's a risky loose end

[fossil depot]

They aren't...well, at least lore-wise; one of the loading screens says that the Mercenaries are being hunted down.

But, again, things are muddy because some of them have been hired by governments, some might be working with/for SIRCAA/Ward, some might be used as bait (they get something they need then get terminated and the shit they found taken)...

[surreal blade]

Ahhhh, that explains their less relevance. I keep thinking of Limansk, it's always there

[fossil depot]

I'm half-expecting there to be a large garrison of Mercenaries there (considering CoP's lore). Even with the whole 'Lymansk is a nightmare' transmission.

[surreal blade]

There's a lot of stuff going on: the nightmare thing might be a cover up, or an illusion to keep anyone away, who's guarding Limansk, what information about the Group is there, is RB/Ward or the mercenaries holding that info?

I'm sure there's something very important around that city and might be also an all out battle between the PMCs

[fossil depot]

That is true, NGL...maybe the transmission is just from a laboratory with screaming subjects and not the town itself.

Though I want the 'nightmare city' part to be true, if only for a change. S2 is decidedly not scary at this point.

[surreal blade]

Could be that the battle of the PMCs already happened, so whatever the stalkers talk about, the nightmare, would be something they uncovered and which killed them

both RB and NATO

they might have uncovered the pandora box, maybe what's in Limansk might be even more important than the entirety of the S2 story

This thing already is starting to sound way darker, maybe even more than the x labs in the triology

[fossil depot]

TBF, it's been a decade since CoP and that one says (IDK when, but probably the ending) that the Mercenaries are fully in control of Lymansk.

And going by in-game, they generally don't fight with each other, so I'm guessing that the 'dark' part got to them. It also explains why the Lymansk bridge is raised; someone is isolating the Zone from whatever's in Lymansk.

Which is fun, because Lymansk is not an island and is connected to the main-land.

[surreal blade]

Or used to be

[fossil depot]

Is. No part of the Zone is isolated from the world and the 'border wall' set up by the original containment is not impenetrable.

My guess is that whoever's in the city is fighting a battle to keep things in. Basically Father Grigori from HL2.

Actually...maybe Lymansk is just Ravenholm. Now that's a crossover that would actually work. 😏

[surreal blade]

A story outside the zone, that sounds interesting

[fossil depot]

Hear me out...what if Agatha is Dr. Breen's relative? Wife or sister or something?

Or even better, maybe Dr. Breen was a woman and got taken by the Combine instead to become one of them!

That explains the 'Monolith is an alien device' NICELY! 😏

||I'm getting banned for this fan-fiction, ain't I?||

[vapid spire]

You can still find gordon freeman in rostok in stalker 2.

[surreal blade]

Plot twist: Xen is the Noosphere

[fossil depot]

Whatever's left of him, at least.

[fathom veldt]

Clearly Korshunov is ducking Aghata

[fossil depot]

And the Representative is just the Nihilanth trying to save itself from the Combine...

Explains why Dalin goes crazy because he realizes it's not his father but an imposter.

And maybe...just maybe...Granite Squad is all Vortigaunts.

[vapid spire]

Why hasn't freedom populated the wild tertitory part of rostok?

[fossil depot]

'Cause it's wild, even in S2. Basically SoC all over again (Mercenaries, anomalies, RATS)...

[vapid spire]

Like its not as bad as it was in SoC.

[fossil depot]

Man hasn't met the blue coats there, it seems. 😏

[vapid spire]

Freedom can't clear out a few mercs next door?

[surreal blade]

bc it's never a few

[fossil depot]

They're chair-warming, crack-smoking hippies with guns.

It'd be a surprise if any of them actually managed to stay up for more than 5 hours properly.

But honestly, what Sculone said. Easier to defend Rostok (well, the Bar area) with its dense population instead of also deal with WT and be spread thin (WT is a haven for cover and ambushes, NGL).

Also, in S2, the area where Wolfhound ambushes Strelok in SoC is empty, meaning I'm guessing that Freedom and Mercenaries have a pact to keep things neutral; I'm pretty sure there's a PDA note that says that, but not sure entirely.

Yep, I was right:

https://stalker.fandom.com/wiki/Contract_between_Myklukha_and_Bogey

$J1L0 Mercenary contract with Bogey The following terms and conditions have been mutually accepted:

1. The mercenaries agree not to accept contracts from any third party without prior notification to the employer regarding any changes in their rate
2. Bogey, in his capacity as coordinator, shall maintain a consistent presence in Rostok and guarantee that the mercenaries will not interfere in the employer's affairs.

Signed: Myklukha, Bogey

So, basically the Mercenaries and Freedom have a working relationship.

[vapid spire]

Shame, they could set up so many more shops in wild territory.

[spiral siren]

This is confirmed, as a merc was hunting some loners on Great Metal Factory

[fossil depot]

Eh, I mean WT is now part of Rostok, so it's basically a 2-minute walk anyways.

[fossil depot]

Uh...what metal factory? I'm confused.

[spiral siren]

Uh rostok

that was the original name of both Wild Territory and Rostok merged

[fossil depot]

Oh...the one you find wounded?

Yea, Rostok Industrial Zone (as I'm calling it).

[spiral siren]

ye, he has some freedomer mention about a hit on loners that bring artifacts to scamovich

[vapid spire]

That's rostock in lost alpha. Appatently its much bigger in lost alpha.

[fossil depot]

Oh...yea, I've only played the trilogy and now S2; not Lost Alpha or other modifications, so got confused.

[fossil depot]

Yea; I think it was a deal with Bandits involved. The Freedom guy sold a stash too, I think?

I'm honestly not sure who hired who, NGL, in that case.

[spiral siren]

Yeah, where a loner kills a Freedomer too, cause he sold them to bandits and got his friends killed due greed

[vapid spire]

Im still at the cordon in lost alpha and it looks different. Has swamp land and a underground area.

[spiral siren]

PSA: to get artifacts on LA, you gotta lure mutants to anomalies

[vapid spire]

Whats the point of the artifact detector then?

[spiral siren]

Detect artifacts, its way HARDER to see them

I would try to find the Ocher detector as its preconfigured to detect all artifacts

[fossil depot]

That's interesting; I read on TVTropes that STALKER was originally supposed to have multiple story-lines and was completely open-ended...so I guess that expanded Cordon would've been part of it.

[vapid spire]

So you have to lure a mutant then use the detector?

[spiral siren]

yeah, funny thing though, if you die on an anomaly it also spawns an artifact

[fossil depot]

Yea, basically a repeat of Khaletskiy... 😔

[fossil depot]

WTF?

This puts that side-mission from the Ward guy at the Chemical Plant in a new light, NGL.

[spiral siren]

There is also this cool thing on LA is artifact fusion

[vapid spire]

Like in gamma?

[spiral siren]

there is a 30% chance of failing that gives you a half assed artifact that has nothing

There is also a weird part in the Countryside area

to get an unique artifact named Hell

[fossil depot]

Let me guess...it takes you to Satan?

[spiral siren]

No

Its like a fireball artifact with incredibly good properties

the problem is getting out of that place.

I liked how Lost Alpha handled character progression, to not make Marked one too strong or too weak

Just some bonuses such as trembling hands while on ADS, More carry capacity, better pricing at merchants, higher chance of finding stash info from corpses, more unique weapons, unique PRM pack weapons and the costs of upgrading weapons varies on the weaponsmith

the cheapest one its at cordon, not only to mention they added guides to fast travel areas.

[fossil depot]

How jank is LA?

[spiral siren]

Has it ocassional crashes, they are not often, but the unique gear that nimble requests tend to bug out

Has a SHITLOAD of gear ngl

and new functional areas

I give it a 9/10 if you are looking to play a long game

and i mean its story focused

The PRM Weapon pack is a MUST have

[fossil depot]

As long as I don't have to clean the map like S2, I might.

S2 has WAY too much loot for my OCD brain.

[spiral siren]

The loot on that aint shit

Its more based upon finding the Stash info

max weight value may look ridiculous at start but that is the value BEFORE you start consuming more stamina until you go slow

You can have freedom exo, duty exo, Clear Sky armor (that one is OP)

And how Duty is driven off from the Great Metal Factory by mercs

(kinda explains why you find RPG rounds at the tower)

Character points are acquired on side quests, and main quests

[fossil depot]

TBF, all that's alien to me; I guess I'll find out if I decide to download it.

Is it stand-alone? I have no interest in modifying CoP for it...

[spiral siren]

Standalone, no need to modify it

As the map is HEAVY modified

Dark Valley is different, Garbage different, Swamps are different, V.I. Lenin Chornobyl Nuclear Power plant is now merged and not divided on North and South

Like its a new game.

[fossil depot]

Yea, I don't expect it to be the same, NGL, since it's a modification, after all.

Also, what's the Developer's Cut?

[spiral siren]

Latest version, cuts off all the illuminati BS they added before

[fossil depot]

So do I get the base version or the DC?

Also, Revisited = ?

[spiral siren]

thats a patch

Get the DC, latest version with more corrections and bug fixes

Also Yantar is TOTALLY different

[fossil depot]

Fine, I'll get the torrent. Latest seems to be 1.4007.

[fossil depot]

That's fine; it's not like the S2 version is any more accurate (I mean, I know it is, but still).

[spiral siren]

Totally new, like you have no idea how wide it is, also last version is 1.4007, there is a way to activate the console ingame for correcting errors or "fast travel" with that

Basically cheating

Also military is not a shoot on sight on this one

some areas do require it, but i dont recommend shooting them on checkpoints

Follow their orders and later on it will pay out

[fossil depot]

Fair enough; I won't shoot any non-hostile NPCs either ways.

[spiral siren]

Sin faction is a thing here, does not affect outcome of the main story, but there is a secret ending AKA the canon ending

gotta gather all the secret documents to achieve this

[fossil depot]

Will do; have to first download it and try to run it without getting BSoDs.

Is there anything like the Reclamation Projects for LA?

[spiral siren]

Uh.. what???

[fossil depot]

This kind of modification:

https://www.moddb.com/mods/srp

There's the ZRP and PRP too.

[spiral siren]

ah, not so sure or aware if

[gusty lotus]

I’ve been thinking about the board game and stalker 2 in terms of lore.

The board game was developed based on concepts from Stalker 2. It’s not canon in the lore, but there is stuff that can be extrapolated. I wonder if anyone has already gotten around to doing that

Like for example the names of mutants and anomalies

[shrewd igloo]

imagine that #s2-lore-discussions has Lost Alpha on it, impossible, No?

[deep forum]

Oh dear, quite a lot of posts I had to read up on! I enjoyed reading your lore discussion 🙂

1. Korshunov appears to be on the same level as Strelok and Scar regarding artifact boostness/zone knowledge. I am wondering why he holds back so much in regards to Dalin's early experiments. He feels like a guy who doesn't like losing control. What exactly is he doing during the reactivation? I wonder if he knew about Strelok and thought that the experiment was over but changed his mind once Monolith got reactivated. Maybe only then he decided to take control. We can see Dalin losing it at that point.
2. Do we actually see teleporters being created or do we see them deactivated and activated - like we can deactivate an anomaly using that special scanner? Is entry and exit controlled? I can't remember a teleporter anomaly that looked extremely out of place. Under SIRCAA is a very special place and CNPP always has been very spacey. Only Hermann does some weird shit with Skif.
3. I think S2 Strelok understands the zone 100% more than SoC Strelok. In CoP he understood anomalies WAY better than in SoC and in S2 he not only understands the agent project, that they can't see the screens twice but also knows about the Oasis illusion and teleporters. He must have experienced A LOT. Either at SIRCAA as an advisor or while going around in the zone (how long is he in the zone again in S2 after leaving in CoP?)
4. Granite Squad: I think it is safe to assume that officially Skif solved most of that issue with Scar's Gauss rifle which one taps them. The exact situations are probably less accurate. I feel like we are missing some of their past though. I also think they were the protectors of the initial experiment.
5. I do think that in the story all main characters and some side characters are absolutely exceptional fighters. Characters tend to interact with Strelok, Scar and Skif like they have done remarkable feats.
6. Are mercenaries part of the treaty?

Regarding DLC: I think Nimble + Mercenaries might be a very interesting angle to approach the story from a different lens. Nimble leaves early in S2. Maybe it has a reason.

[hearty verge]

Yeahhhh... dunno bout that one

[vapid spire]

Maybe we need a lost alpha lore section.

[shrewd igloo]

I think that is enough with the failed attempt of Dezowawe and GSC trying put Lost Alpha to the sell.

[fossil depot]

I mean, it only makes sense.

[fossil depot]

I'll get into this later, GTG for now.

[young temple]

Is it stated anywhere why the government is funding both STC(ecologists) and SIRCAA? Or is SIRCAA more corporate funded? Cant recall what is said in game..

[normal drum]

Malachite - funded by the government (protected by IPSF), SIRCAA - funded by the Regulatory Board (private, protected by Ward)

[young temple]

Thank you very much, guess it was somewhere in my subconsius

[gusty lotus]

Malachite and SIRCAA are both in a sort of partnership. I believe Malachite is treated as an independent sub-division of SIRCAA. But I haven't found any clear explanation as to who funds what. Only that Ozersky was supposed to be the head of SIRCAA before Dalin was pushed through by the Regulatory Board

[surreal blade]

A PMC team assaulting a government funded organization by orders of RB? Now that is bad looking

[surreal blade]

Off topic, but i find really funny that the entire Zone is modern-like technology but laptops' OS is Windows XP

[jagged hull]

you mean windows 95?

[surreal blade]

Yeah, i think that's it. Couldn't recognise it

[smoky hornet]

Oh goody another scammer

[pearl mirage]

So rq, what is Psi radation

[jagged hull]

theres a few types of it but basically its kindof like electricity in some ways, except that its generated mostly by conscious beings

everything that has consciousness radiates psi energy and it affects the noosphere

seeing as the brainscorcher exists there are ways of generating it synthetically but thats the most important part

the noosphere is similar to the various electromagnetic fields that are around us in the way that we cant really see them with our eyes but they can affect objects that we perceive

[jagged hull]

i vaguely remember reading some documentation from stalker 2 that specifies that there are a few different types of psi radiation so maybe brain scorchers generate a different type of psi radiation compared to living beings, which explains why c-con actually had to use their own brains to do what they wanted

[deep forum]

imho it's best to analyse psi radiation like light radiation.

Radiation = energy emitted from a source
Psi radiation= psi energy emitted from a source
Zombification = strong possibly undirected psi radiation ~ a lot of light makes you blind
Reprogramming = psi signal (psi radiation used like a carrier wave) ~ light in fibre cables.
Defining energy loosely as "capacity to do work" psi energy becomes capacity to do psy work where psy roughly stands for mental/psychic.

Let's not get into the details of psi field. Take your intuition based on a magnetic field for that. If you truly want to approach it from a physical stand point, let me know but I am no expert and it needs a lot more interpretation to make it work in the Stalker 2 sense.

TL;DR: So I would say there are no types but the term is insufficient to describe what exactly it does.

[jagged hull]

the different types of psi radiation isnt something i made up on the spot i remember reading about them i just dont exactly know how theyre different

i found the document that references different types of psi radiatiom

Obtained the Alpha, a product of the Caribbean experiment. This remarkable artifact possesses the unique ability to convert biological alpha-psi radiation into electromagnetic beta-psi and vice versa.

im not sure what the electromagnetic next to beta psi means but whatever

i think theres another document that expands on this distinction but i cant be bothered to find it

anyways i think both analogies are useful, just for different aspects of the subject

i just wanted to emphasize the universal present of psi radiation, its easy to forget that it isnt an invention of the zone, its always been there, just not observed

also i think youre conflating anomalous energy with some if the ins and outs of how psi radiation works. its not really comparable to our common understanding of energy, its not really something that can be depleted, just utilized, like internet bandwith. as far as we know the psi emissions generated by conscious beings isnt sucking up their lifeforce as if its a battery, its just a fact of their consciousness, like a magnet that is only a magnet if it generates an electromagnetic field, otherwise it stops being a magnet if that makes sense

anyways its a tricky subject and im glad that understanding it isnt really required most of the time

[deep forum]

Yes, I build my analysis on physical facts and the definition of radiation (which is energy emitted from a souce). I wasn't aware of the alpha beta distinction. As alpha and beta are just an enumeration (see Rutherford), we can not derive more information from that.

Good catch!

[vital pollen]

How did Harpy guard prypiat for 10 years if CoP events happened 9 years prior?

[deep forum]

where do you have the 10 years from? Probably just rounded it up. Longest realistic time would be Operation Fairway which was definitely after May probably shortly before August. I am not sure if we have dates regarding in which month Skif's story starts.

I just realized that the D4 treaty was signed 2013 oO I always thought it had been signed much closer to S2

Ward really entered quick after extracting Strelok

[brave iris]

any breakthroughs on the radio signals? Im not realy sure if it has any implications in regards to story, future content, or anything, nor am i profficient in that avenue.

[vapid spire]

Does psi radiation come from the noosphere?

[normal drum]

That's all for now.

[normal drum]

It comes from emitters, man-made or biological (humans emit psi too, that's the reason why the Noosphere exists in the first place), and only the anomalous psi-fields are created by the escaped anomalous energy from the Noosphere.

[jagged hull]

the noosphere is where the psi radiation is, like electromagnetic fields are in the magnetosphere

[fossil depot]

Playing S2, it's kind of interesting to see psionic radiation. In the trilogy, it was merely causing damage without any other effects (except visual).

In S2, you've got phantoms that show up (both that run into and collide with Skif, damaging him and the enemies that 'spawn' in that simple disapparate once you try to search them).

This is similar to Isaac's dementia in Dead Space...Isaac sees something happening, but upon realizing, it's shown that it's just his own mind playing with him (like the part where he imagines Nicole trying to stab him only to realizes it's his own hand with a needle or something).

So I guess zombification might not just be 'mental overload', but the fact that they stayed for too long in psionic radiation that their own brain was turned against them, driving them insane just like Isaac Clarke.

[vapid spire]

You do see phantoms in SoC but only at the brain scorcher.

[fossil depot]

I know, but that's the thing...in SoC, it's portrayed as if it's happening because of the power of the antennas, but in S2, it's shown a lot more realistically (psionic emissions being mind-turning).

Hence comparing it to the Marker's emissions in Dead Space, since the effects are the same (Isaac and Monolith are both left dazed and much more vulnerable after exposure).

Except Clarke is turned into an unwitting pawn for the Brethren Moon, whereas the Monolith are turned into a brain-washed military force. And Clarke retains his memories and all, whereas the Monolith don't.

[deep forum]

I do think the S2 solution feels much better than constant damage, suddenly you kill yourself or Psy-Copies. However, I think they should have given controllers the ability to make friends appear as enemies and make them hostile towards you -> Kill the controller quickly or you might shoot your friends. While there aren't many encounters against controllers where you have friends on your side, it still would be cool.

I still think Zombification is overload as it can happen once and then you are fried. You cannot restore the previous state. Even C-Conciousness never done that. Also, the zombies don't seem to be turned against something but brain scrambled. In a "Minor Incident" we can see that controllers are also capable of zombifying people, I think.

[fossil depot]

I mean, that happens either ways, AFAIK? Any NPCs in a Controller's vicinity will turn into zombies, right in front of your eyes.

Yes, in free-roam. You can test that at the Military Warehouses in the Chemical Plant.

[deep forum]

In CoP it happens once that a Controller takes over NPCs but they don't zombify from it. If you don't kill them but only the controller, they will return friendly.
I think in CoP controllers spawn with zombified stalkers; if I remember correctly not entirely sure
I thought in S2 they also just spawn with zombified stalkers as I have never seen them turning someone except in Minor Incident.

[fossil depot]

That doesn't happen in Topol's mission, though?

And no, in S2, it happens in real-time; again, you can see that at the Military Warehouses (and killing the Controller doesn't revert them; they're permanently zombified).

[jagged hull]

i saw an idea that what we see in the project y ending in the duga is just a flashback and those reports about anomalies appearing is just the consequences of the failed 2nd carribean experiment

seems interesting but the ending is so cryptic that its hard to tell whats happening at all, but that would explain why we see scientists and IPSF troops in duga

[normal drum]

No, that part of the ending is straightforward and easy to understand. I'll just copypaste what I wrote on reddit (the question was something like "If the Alpha is needed for the Wish Granter to work, how did it disappear from the Sarcophagus after 2012?"):

"The Project Y plan says that Doctor had multiple faded Alphas, what logically means that his Agents took all Alphas from the installations in the Zone they were used for, and then Doctor sent the Agents to the Great Land.

His simple plan was to eventually send an Agent with an Alpha to the Zone and use the scanner scheme to recharge the artefact so it could be used at the Duga to activate the Generators around the world which would create the new Zones where there would be better chances for people to adapt and prosper than in the Chornobyl Zone.

But then the second Carribean experiment happened, and eventually, an Alpha appeared in Skif's house. It wouldn't be too critical for Doctor (it doesn't matter who will bring an Alpha to the Zone), but Herman had met Skif already before the latter went to the Zone, figured it out and made a deal with Faust so his people would intercept Skif. But not only Faust kept Skif's Alpha, his people also attacked Varan's bandits, resulting in Nestor's death and the end of the scanner scheme.

This could very much ruin Doctor's plans - with no scheme, he could rely only on Skif's Alpha. Then Faust revived the Monolith program, and the Monolithians captured the Duga. The only thing Faust indirectly helped Doctor with was replacing Duga's microchips with external action modules (although the Monolithians have done that for a different purpose - to make Duga work throughout the whole Zone).

With the Duga freed Doctor once again had a chance. In Skif's ending, when the scientists tried to connect to the Generators from the Duga, they didn't notice the replacement of the microchips, and the Duga activated the other Generators around the world."

[normal drum]

We saw the Alpha (obviously meaning that it's not a Carribean experiment, you don't need the Duga at all for Carribean experiments) in the similar to the Podium one (X-11) device (you could see the artefact already there right before the Faust bossfight), and we know Duga has a connection to the Generators, so it means that the scientists tried to use the device to connect to them.

[jagged hull]

Agents took all Alphas from the installations in the Zone they were used for
this is unlikely to be the case as dalin basically says that this is the second alpha they know of, the first one being the one that was originally used in x11

[normal drum]

"Skif, please. Alpha Artifacts are a source of power not only for the Generators, but for other Project X installations as well – including those designed to create illusions." No, he doesn't ever say that it was the second one at all.

"Provide Alpha Artifacts (we’ve got a number of faded ones – more than enough)" - Doctor had a lot of Alphas, obviously from the Project X installations, he took them to the Mainland so they couldn't be found by SIRCAA.

[jagged hull]

the question is, if sircaa has been looking for them for so long, and theyve been around in the zone since what, 2014? how does doctor manage to get all the alphas and then sit on his ass for 7 years not moving forward with his plan

the way that dalin is speaking it makes it clear that its the first time he is seeing an alpha, so its not like they had some that were lost

i think the more logical explanation is that the dummy alphas were recovered from the consequences of the 2nd carribean experiment

[fossil depot]

I got an explanation...everyone who wasn't Skif died. 😏

[fossil depot]

Responding to this, BTW.

[jagged hull]

project y worked didnt it

the main issue here is that i dont believe that completing all of the prerequisite steps took 7 years meanwhile the alphas could be gathered before sircaa had any clue what was happened

[fossil depot]

That's what I'm saying...everyone the Doctor sent out died. Latest one being Nestor; even Solder almost got dead (I know it was because of the Monolith assault, but it's all part of the same reasons).

Skif is like...the ONLY guy who beat everything, including Faust.

[jagged hull]

wdym if we say that zones started popping up all over the world then by definition the agents on the outside succeeded

[fossil depot]

Yea, but that only happened ones the Generators at Chernobyl got activated, meaning that without that starting point, nothing would matter outside.

Meaning everyone in the current Zone died except for Skif, meaning no one to actually carry the plan out.

Mainland is like...safe as shit compared to the CEZ.

[jagged hull]

so are you saying that the generators on the outside were only prepped for the plan only after skif got his new apartment (x7)

[fossil depot]

Well...they don't really come online in any ending except Skif's own.

• The Ward makes the Zone disappear (everything going back to normal, except CNPP, since the radio-active material is still a problem, along with the blown up Reactor 4).
• Scar turns it into a Stephen King horror novel.
• Strelok locks everything down permanently.

Everyone upends Kaymanov's plan. And only in Kaymanov's plan do the other generators come to life, with Skif 'freeing' the Zone and letting the Noosphere connect to the rest of the generators.

[normal drum]

Well, after Doctor's Agents left the Zone with Alphas, we don't know why exactly Doctor was waiting for so long, we can only assume that there was just no way to use the other Generators yet (or Doctor didn't know about that at the moment). The Agents had to return when the right moment appears and this moment was very close in 2021.

Scanners, which were needed to recharge Alphas, were created by Hermann somewhere in 2020-2021, so that's when the Project Y plan appeared. The scanner scheme was organised, meaning that the first 3 points succeeded.

The problems started because the Alpha actually appeared after the Second Caribbean experiment, and instead of the Agents, Skif arrived to the Zone, and not alone but with help from Hermann who contacted Faust who not only stole the Alpha but ruined the scanner scheme (+ I guess the reason why Doctor didn't send the Agents anyway, is because the Ward was tracking all the Agents in the Zone in the Troposphere Comm Station after they found Chornozem and Nestor).

We don't know exactly if Doctor was hoping to use Faust's army to capture Duga or to figure something else for the 5th point of the plan, we just know how it ended up with Skif and Faust in the game.

And the game endings other than Skif's one make Doctor's plan impossible - Ward doesn't need to use the Duga if they already have control over the Generators, the Shining Zone makes getting to the Duga impossible, and Strelok won't allow to do anything in the Zone that could interfere with his control.

The Project Y plan is still a mystery in how it worked but at least we know how it ends.

[jagged hull]

but you see what i mean, in one part of the plan the agents can act very quickly and in the other theyre doing nothing

also arent the scanners just a rework of a project x product?

[normal drum]

They are based on their technologies, doesn't mean there is a device from the Project X times that works like a scanner (or works at all).

[jagged hull]

ig that means that the plan could only be drawn up by the time the scanners were made because some of the steps wouldnt be possible until then

[deep forum]

I think it is Topols mission.

[fossil depot]

That's the thing; you either shoot the Controller fast enough to avoid them getting zombified or they turn into zombies and you kill them all.

[deep forum]

no. They start shooting at you but if you kill the controller, they return. At least that's how I remember it

[fossil depot]

Yes, but you have a limited window of time; if you take too long, they're permanently zombified.

[deep forum]

hmh, I didn't see that, but sounds reasonable. This doesn't go against my explanation though, does it?

They receive a psy signal (i.e. psy radiation that comes with advice). They start shooting at you. With enough signal that becomes too much and they are turned to zombies

thanks for pointing it out that there was apparently a zombie option

[brave iris]

Is there a known reason why Lodochka is hostile after you are done with Faust?

[cold quarry]

he is hostile if you are on the Ward path (since you ||sold them out, Strider specifically)||

[brave iris]

ah. I usualy take the ward path and paradoxicaly Scar is my last ending I dont have (given you need to choose to side with him relatively early). Mystery answered I suppose.

[trail rapids]

You know one thing I don't understand is why there aren't more countries trying to involve themselves into the zone like America or Russia It seems like something they would love to do

[mighty zinc]

I think I've seen theories of CIA involvement in the Zone (in the context of S2) before. And, also, many of the mercs could be affiliated with anyone.

[surreal blade]

The mercenaries initially were supposed to be different teams from around the world, game files anomalous dugout found show that there were quite a lot: SAS, NATO, Seals, maybe also FBI if i remember correctly

Then it was decided to unify them on the Mercenaries faction

What we're sure of is that these mercenaries, by the clients orders, are researching the X labs, in COP they were holding Limanks, but in S2 they're being hunted down and Limansk became a nightmare city

I wouldn't be surprised if they became the new UNISG, because they're starting to become secretive, way more than past games. They could be very well faking their crisis and be preparing for a bold move, they may have moved out of Limansk and are hiding in the underground. Maybe they are truly losing operators and are going undercover in various settlements

[vital pollen]

Anomalous dugout is misinformed

They were not “originally supposed to be that”. What he’s looking at is literal multiplayer skins that exist in the game.

freedom got some skins representing real troops too, again, used in multiplayer

[surreal blade]

really? dang

[fossil depot]

I mean, apart from what SurDno said, it'd be REALLY politically-explosive to have official military forces from other nations in the Zone. That's basically like having the SAS in Moscow or the Spetznaz in Washington. Major suicide moment for whoever is big-brained enough to actually do that.

It's why Mercenaries even exist...expendable, untied to any nationality, free to do whatever they need to without anything political getting in the way. Of course, nothing's stopping military folk from becoming Mercenaries after retirement, so there's that (which is what I bet most of them are considering the skills required to even remotely survive the Zone).

[deep forum]

Crazy mercenaries also make a lot more sense than foreign military. Most military units are not trained for what you need in the zone (most get killed by drones and such nowadays while humans do planning + steering; best soldiers never see a target through their sights) and have strategies that are just not applicable. It's a bit like how romans fought the Germanic peoples (battle of Varus would be a great search term).
At the same time the international boarder guard could allow some "innocent" overstepping or easier contact to mercenaries to establish some level of control.

[hardy otter]

Who is the voice of the monolith when it reactivates? I thought ccon was but they're all dead.

[brave iris]

Think its Faust. Seemingly uploads all the individual Monolith Stalkers from the Clear Sky visiograph to take control of them from Duga/SKALA (I am not realy sure if Red Fort is taken over prior to SIRCAA shenannigans). Then highjacks the connection to X network with Alpha Artifact from different installations he controls.

[normal drum]

It's a machine voice of the Monolith programm, it is unknown whose voice is it. We can only say that it's not Faust's, because, despite he had the title "Voice of the Monolith", he was more like its representative, the one who gives orders on the field, not from emitters. He was created after the Monolith programm and he hears the voice, too (we know that from the 5th beacon).

[normal drum]

Faust was only "browsing" the Monolith database, access to which was given to him by Hermann, he didn't "upload" anything, the names (faces) were already there.

[jagged hull]

it doesnt make sense if hes uploading dead people

[strong robin]

I would love if ISG was still around, but as far as I remember, the IPSF is UN

Y'know I don't think there's a single IPSF uniform you can get, is there?

It's all just Ward stuff or old Ukrainian military gear

[shrewd igloo]

We don't lost nothing with ISG existence or in-existence tho.
Just UN was mentioned once by Hog in CS and the cut-content of UN just was an single sequence of 5 minutes that wasn't supposed to be canon.

[limpid robin]

Banzai is a guide in NK-4 group. And he killed everyone in that group. What do you think?

[strong robin]

I just remember digging through a bunch of old build stuff and wikis and whatnot and seeing that the scientists Scar was escorting at the very beginning of CS were supposed to be ISG

Other than that, I don't recall anything else, they didn't have a big presence in that cutscene obviously but it was pretty much the only concept denoting any real foreign influence inside the Zone, and even then I think they just made the scientists regular ecologists

[brave iris]

hes not uploading the dead, hes uploading all of the monolithians.

[jagged hull]

ok but within those being uploaded are dead monolithians

why would that need to be done

[jagged hull]

theres a few IPSF suits you can get

[jagged hull]

and IPSF isnt really UN its just an international force, probably mainly european powers

[brave iris]

there are simply some that are unknown as to what their outcome realy is. Some of them are stated as missing, so its not like the information is 100% complete

Shot by loners, found with stone around his neck,Thrown of a cliff, Operation Monolith, Hanged, Torn apart by dogs, Killed. Missing, Prypiat, killed. Dead. Alive. No information. Shot by loners. Died in anomaly. Alive but lost.

just some of them from the cutscene. That and also Faust says iconicaly Come to me in Duga multiple times.

[jagged hull]

i dont see how this proves anything

im still not sure why dead monolithians would need to be uploaded if that is being done to program the signal to reach everyone

[brave iris]

you take all the inventory you can, notwithstanding of the alive or dead status. From a perspective of the database, you can kill the Ninth in one of the earliest quests, or you can keep him alive and shoot the loners that attack him. If he skips him in the upload and you keep him alive, then what precisely?

[jagged hull]

the issue with that is that from what we know the signal does not really discriminate, monolithians have weakened psyches that make them more susceptible to psi emissions so the signal doesnt really need to target everyone, it just needs to match certain parameters

and for the monolithian in question to be in a place that doesnt shield from the signal ofc like we can see with spirit

[brave iris]

yea, but then you are opening the can of worms as to what the difference between monolith and Zombified is