Trying to make the smallest DevBoard

[hollow anvil]

The Devboard part is for Debugging BTW

Damn, its in an unsupported format ):

Yeah no im using another MCU SNAPEDA's MSPM0C1104'es dont have fooprints/shmatics

Trying to make the smallest DevBoard

[hollow anvil]

The MCU used for this project is the: TI MSPM0C1104

[hollow anvil]

Verstion 1!!!

For more context the for pins next to the PIC10F200-IOT (MCU) are GP pins, and the top one are VSS and VDD

[hollow anvil]

Nice ATiny9-TS :P

[muted vine]

i feel a need to prove you wrong by making a smaller one for no reason

[hollow anvil]

You think you can make a smoler sucker?

[hollow anvil]

And why may I know you have the urge to do that?

[muted vine]

idk

[muted vine]

well, this thing exists

[hollow anvil]

Yout me to make the microscopic sucker

I cant find footprints/Schmeatics for it

[muted vine]

funny thing is, think JLC basic was enough for assembly

because there's only 2 rows

actually, not sure about assembly

but think it was fine for the pcb part

[muted vine]

easy enough to make

[hollow anvil]

Oh i have the JLC-PCB app, yes hey do assembly

[muted vine]

one use of the array tool + some drawing for the silkscreen markings

for the footprint

and a bit of copy pasting for the symbol

[hollow anvil]

damn.. that simple??

[muted vine]

there are some extra steps for setup etc.

but you should be able to get it done in 15 mins at most

[hollow anvil]

well it has 8 pins, the hardest part would be the footprint ☠️

gib me a sec to google the pinout

Why did you call it "TI" ?!

[muted vine]

well, you're not really going to find it any time soon

if you searched the manufacturer name

here's the datasheet

[hollow anvil]

This the name?: MSPM0C110x

[muted vine]

the pinout etc. is all there

[marsh canyon]

Footprint is dead easy, just use the bgawizard or array tool lol

[hollow anvil]

I didn't say it was impossible mate XD

[marsh canyon]

Shrink headers to 0.1mm pitch or castellated qfn/dfn 😉

[hollow anvil]

Now if you can, DON'T SPOIL THEE'S EXPERIENCE!!!

Ok WTF are PA1, PA27, PA24,PA20 & PA19?!?!

[marsh canyon]

Pins?

[hollow anvil]

yes

im making my own chematic and im confused af

[hollow anvil]

I give up ): Im using ATiny9

[hollow anvil]

By sugestions in #beginner-help i have made a v3!

I have sugnificantly shrunk it down!

[hollow anvil]

V5 MCU, im now going to sleep as of the time of sending this messgae it is 10;06pm... Il finish up tomorow after i get the schamatic an footprints printed

[icy quartz]

inb4 I become the killjoy here

So uhh how much RAM are you going to need?

[icy quartz]

some of the C1104 footprints are already in kicad iirc?

Attiny9:

RAM:32

32 bytes, are you sure you are doing anything there lol

[marsh canyon]

32 bytes is plenty for adjustable pwm and a timer with room to spare 😁

you could keep a state machine in flash and you have enough to write to a crt lol

[hollow anvil]

Good morning sickers

[hollow anvil]

Alr school is finished I'm going to get the parts to make my V5

[hollow anvil]

New version !

[hollow anvil]

Now, this is micro...

[marsh canyon]

0402? (the size of the capacitor)

[marsh canyon]

you will have a very difficult time attaching that

[hollow anvil]

Aslong as it has a capacity more than 1uf i dont care

[marsh canyon]

yes you do

[hollow anvil]

Checkmated you @sudden wyvern >:3

[marsh canyon]

the fomu family is probably still one of the smallest dev boards in terms of processing/area

maybe it could be updated for usbc ports

[hollow anvil]

Give me a seck

[muted vine]

Yeah

[hollow anvil]

v7.1, the old v7 was bigger so i made them nearer to eachother

[icy quartz]

Needs an LED

Uhh, 5k1 pull downs for USB-C port?

[sudden wyvern]

And I hope he's getting it assembled elsewhere with that teeeeeeeny resistor.

[hollow anvil]

an actual Micro-MCU (using the MSPM0C110x as its literally than 1.75 cubic cm, If anyone need the schematics and footprint text me)

Schematic and footprint for the MCU i used, might be un-accurate as its literally no more than 5mm cubic (MSPM0C110x)

[icy quartz]

I may question your use of the smallest package available

Yeah it's tiny but it's dwarfed by everything else

The legs for your 3.3V regulator are bigger than the whole chip lol

If you really want to optimize for size, put stuff on bottom below type C port

DDF or DSG packages might be worth looking at

[icy quartz]

Schematic would be helpful for reference as well

PDF export since discord mobile can't open kicad

[hollow anvil]

Ok. So erm, il note that for tomorow. Now I shal crash onto my bed bcuz it's 10pm

[sudden wyvern]

I wish Discord had a thing which automatically ran DRC / ERC on things people post here 😂

dem traces

[marsh canyon]

I think you can do it with 0.16 trace/space

[sudden wyvern]

the IC is just going to get stuck to his soldering iron and it'll never work 😉

[marsh canyon]

i mean you shouldnt touch the IC with an iron at all

[hollow anvil]

Alr, today I'm going to get the parts for the v5.1

[sudden wyvern]

Which version was 5.1 again? 😂

[hollow anvil]

Smartash

[sudden wyvern]

What are you going to connect this into out of interest?

[hollow anvil]

Final editions... No more updates, we have solved the mystery on "How small a Dev-Kit can get..." I'm not going to continue to make new ver...

[hollow anvil]

The USB is used for power, but led's and such

[sudden wyvern]

Not sure if that's just bait now....

[hollow anvil]

WDYM?

i just think i made it really small and decided to finish making more adjustments to smh that cant get smaller

[sudden wyvern]

I mean that just wont get power for two reasons

and there's nets not even connected which is what those white lines are on your pcb

[hollow anvil]

im getting it fixed with help of the guy in #beginner-help

[sudden wyvern]

@hollow anvil - What package are you using?

[hollow anvil]

my own schematic made with the help of the datasheet

[sudden wyvern]

That's not what I asked.

Which package are you using.

[jade estuary]

looks like so23 ?

[sudden wyvern]

for the MCU that is

[hollow anvil]

wait

[sudden wyvern]

or what's the FULL part number you're ordering?

[jade estuary]

– 8-pin SOT (DDF)
– 8-pin WSON (DSG)
– 8-pin DSBGA (YCJ)

one of these I assuume xDD

[sudden wyvern]

I'm hoping he'll answer 😂

[marsh canyon]

(yes, please let robert answer)

[jade estuary]

oh sorry

xD

[jade estuary]

reading through the datasheet a tuff job

xD

[hollow anvil]

YCJ, i aint finding it tho.

[jade estuary]

It only has 71 pages "only"

[jade estuary]

How can this be?

[sudden wyvern]

71 is a tiny datasheet!

[jade estuary]

Now you spoiling him :(_ _

[hollow anvil]

maybe because my 2 brainless are fighting for 3rd place

[sudden wyvern]

So you're using this one?

Note how the pins (balls) on that are labelled A1, A2, B1, B2, but on your schematic, you have a part which has pins 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8?

[jade estuary]

bga??

for a beginner damn

[hollow anvil]

i am cooking myself 🙏

[marsh canyon]

its only 8 pins, its basically bga lite

[jade estuary]

isnt it hard to solder or nah?

[marsh canyon]

kinda, but you dont get most of the challenges of more substantial bga packages

[sudden wyvern]

It'll be frustrating and fighting with the things that aren't worth fighting with. It's like trying to get into 3d printing, but buying a 5 year old second hand printer so you spend all your time with belt tensioning and bed levelling rather than printing things!

[jade estuary]

I may have did that with my first one xD

[hollow anvil]

the MCU is as big as the voltage regulator's leg... but its halfballs so aslong as theres bumbs its not going to be hard

[jade estuary]

well 3 years xD

[marsh canyon]

how are you planning to solder it

[hollow anvil]

Просто е, няма да го направя!

[sudden wyvern]

So your first step is

1. Get the right symbol
2. Get the right footprint

[hollow anvil]

the symbol is made, the footprint is kinda off (its less that 1cm cubic don't make fun of me DX)

[sudden wyvern]

The symbol is wrong.

[marsh canyon]

theres no reason not to get it perfect

[sudden wyvern]

I'll highlight it.

1. get the RIGHT symbol

[hollow anvil]

WAIT!

[sudden wyvern]

you have the symbol for the DDf / DSG variant. You don't have the symbol for the YCJ variant

[hollow anvil]

Were going to exuse the fact that this exists?

[sudden wyvern]

But you're not using the SOT8 package

so why would you use the symbol from the SOT8 package?

[hollow anvil]

yeah no, my head hurts 😭

[jade estuary]

https://www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/MSPM0C1104SDSGR?qs=dbcCsuKDzFUG0W1qcjzg5w%3D%3D

this one? nah wait its WSON-8

[sudden wyvern]

If you are using the SOT8 part, then you use the Symbol for the SOT8 part

If you're using the DSBGA part, you need to use the Symbol for the DSBGA part.

that makes sense yeah?

[sudden wyvern]

That's not the part he's using

[hollow anvil]

The pins are the same, there just named diffrently

[jade estuary]

https://www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/MSPM0C1104SDDFR?qs=dbcCsuKDzFV0JvqjQIWgGw%3D%3D

this one?

[marsh canyon]

no, theyre not

[sudden wyvern]

Okay. Tell me which pin VSS is on

[marsh canyon]

if youre confused about something we've said, please ask for clarification instead of trying to guess.

[jade estuary]

Then I ask for clarification xD

[marsh canyon]

what specifically is not clear here

[jade estuary]

can I guess or think about this?

[sudden wyvern]

Guessing is the first step to sh** not working

[hollow anvil]

Enlighten me on how there different

[sudden wyvern]

Answer the question I asked above

[jade estuary]

he is using the MSPM0C110x the MSPM0C1104SDDFR I linked is just a variant of it with the SOT-8 package isnt it?

[sudden wyvern]

He's not using the SOt8 package though

[hollow anvil]

pin... 5?... shi-...

[jade estuary]

But he should use it or not?

[sudden wyvern]

There is no pin 5.

the pins are labelled A1, A2, B1, B2 etc....

So I'll ask again - which pin is VSS on?

[hollow anvil]

D2/pin5...

[sudden wyvern]

D2 - lovely.

So, does your symbol have a pin labelled D2?

[hollow anvil]

n-no 😭😭😭

[marsh canyon]

should is a normative assessment, it's not really relevant here. its probably not the most practical option

[jade estuary]

It would be a good idead to use them then 🙃

[marsh canyon]

probably

[sudden wyvern]

That seems a problem!!

Step 1 - Get the symbol correct! Make sure that the labelling of function to pin labels is correct. You're at least in a good position that you can update the current symbol but with the right names

[hollow anvil]

yeah no i give up o the smalest devboard thing 😭

[sudden wyvern]

👏

You can still make a devboard pretty much the same size, but use a much more functional MCU!

[hollow anvil]

wait

[jade estuary]

would it be also more expensive if you get it assembled?

[marsh canyon]

yes

[jade estuary]

What are the positive sides of using a bga except the smaller form faactor?

[marsh canyon]

only the size/footprint

[jade estuary]

would it be suitable for a beginner? Probaably not

[sudden wyvern]

Absolutely not

[marsh canyon]

no

#1360041463836049539 message

I used it here because the size constraints actually posed a challenge

I probably had space to use the sot-8 but meh

[jade estuary]

this thing is smoll!

[jade estuary]

I would def trust you with everything so xD

and I dont think your a beginner

[sudden wyvern]

So let's take a step back:

@hollow anvil - What is it you want to achieve in the end? What do you want to do with this board? Maybe we can work out finding a MCU which you can 1) hand solder (assuming youre building these yourself) and 2) you can program easily to develop with.

[marsh canyon]

(and you can still make them very small even with larger parts, you'll likely be limited by the size of your connectors)

[hollow anvil]

I achieved, ESP32-c3-mini assertion

[jade estuary]

The question still remains what do you want to achieve in the end?

[hollow anvil]

Erh... making my GBA knockoff into a REAL gaming device?!

[jade estuary]

well this is def possible

[hollow anvil]

My rassbarypi-3b+ almosts fits into it. but the USB/GPIO are in the way

[muted vine]

desolder them

[hollow anvil]

I don't have a soldering iron smartash

It's out of the countie I live in (I live in Pleven [the countire], and it's in Nikopol [the countie])

[muted vine]

im also not a psychic

[hollow anvil]

Fair point

But you expect a Bulgarian teen to have a soldering iron?

[jade estuary]

Why not?

[hollow anvil]

Well, grampa is going to the house where the iron is and he said he's going to gift it to me so yes: WHY NOT!

[jade estuary]

niceeeee

[hollow anvil]

By Monday/Saturday il have a Iron and some КАЛАЙ 🤑 (Solder=Калай)

[jade estuary]

😜

[hollow anvil]

КАЛАЙ :PP

[jade estuary]

yummy 😛

[hollow anvil]

Tasty solder 😋

[jade estuary]

yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

someone else likes solder

[hollow anvil]

You know what I call Christophe "Chrisi"? Cuz I have a classmate with the same name so I use the same nickname

Let's actually GET. BACL. TO WORK!!!

[jade estuary]

chrisi 💀

[hollow anvil]

Криси looks better

IDK Abt you

[jade estuary]

Chrissy 💀 💀

[hollow anvil]

Mh, tasty evolution. I like me logicsims!

[jade estuary]

What is a logicsins?

[hollow anvil]

Did I say "logicsins" 🙏

[jade estuary]

you have to space it apart? xD

I thought it was a word lol

logic sins makes sense

[muted vine]

sins involving logic

obviously

[hollow anvil]

XD

[jade estuary]

fr should have thought about that earlier xD

[muted vine]

high effort sins

[jade estuary]

xD

[hollow anvil]

I have committed one logical crime

[jade estuary]

sudo delete robert xD

[hollow anvil]

It's called „Sudo pacman -Rns robertz“ in reality 🤓☝️

[jade estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/plink-nerd-plank-plink-cat-cat-gif-11096663429307162255

[sudden wyvern]

@muted vine - Think he's abandoned the tiny silly IC after chatting with him above 😉

[jade estuary]

you are verry good at explaining things and convincing xD

[sudden wyvern]

I'm not really. It's just breaking down logical steps and process. Very key skills for engineers!

[jade estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/break-dancing-gif-17724132266718964003

xD

[muted vine]

lol

[hollow anvil]

Добре, I'm back!

So ummm. I was checking local electronic part stores. And only "Elimexer" has one ESP32-wover (like the original ESP32) so il head and pick it up tomorown

[stiff gate]

I’m jealous that you have local electronics stores

I have to wait up to a week for digikey

[hollow anvil]

First soldering iron :P

I have also been planing to buy parts to make a random MCU

I have solder paste despensier and we'll, Sholder

[hollow anvil]

Don't be so envious of me, the electronics store has 1 ESP32, and flipin 0 ATtinys/Atmegas

[sudden wyvern]

Must be pretty small text size to fit all the MCUs in the world on three pages. 😂

[hollow anvil]

No I mean, there not a lot of MCU's

2 pages of ATmegas, half for attonys, and 1 SI SINGULAR esp32